Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion [Archive] - Page 19

Akiyoshi

2011-11-29, 22:53

It's a training battle. I doubt Thoma will, or even can, pull out said 'story breaking power.'

I agree with "won't will", but i don't see why he "can't" use it.

On some other details, i'm a bit dissapointed that Divider-induced injuries can be healed that easily. No impact, no developement, well, you know the trend.

OK, talking about something else(weird, usually my rants are louder and longer, i guess is because it's almost december). I think we can assume they're installed in some ground base for now, the Wolfram is nowhere to be seen and even people like Nove and Vivio come to visit. I guess we will see more of Tohma's misterious popularity with the old cast(seriously, the guy is instantly liked by EVERYONE xDU).

Justin_Brett

2011-11-29, 22:55

No impact or development to a character that doesn't need it, what the hell.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-29, 23:04

No impact or development to a character that doesn't need it, what the hell.

Doesn't need it? Can you explain?

...i'm expecting her to be more than she was after this, be for good or bad, seeing that nothing changed is what dissapointed me.

itanshi1

2011-11-29, 23:59

Aki, you have been steering the topic off topic for sometime, try the theory post.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 00:14

Aki, you have been steering the topic off topic for sometime, try the theory post.

Talking about characters and situations linked to the latest chapter of Force? How is this off-topic?

CrowKenobi

2011-11-30, 00:23

Rising Dragon

2011-11-30, 00:24

How about we just drop it forever? No one wants to hear Aki's bitching and moaning about Signum anymore. I'd rather not give him another opening to do so when the chapter's out. Not that we'll get to see the chapter translated for another year or two.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 00:33

How about we put if off until the actual chapter is released?

Ok -_-

Not that we'll get to see the chapter translated for another year or two.

I thinked someone already picked the english Force translation isn't?

Rising Dragon

2011-11-30, 00:34

And now we get one Force chapter translated in English every 4 to 5 months, if that. What's your point?

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 00:37

And now we get one Force chapter translated in English every 4 to 5 months, if that. What's your point?

Well, hardly "a year or two" but i think i got your point.

By the way, if it worth something, i will keep bringing up the synopsis of the chapters that get translated to spanish(princessnanoha and her team are pretty enthusiastic with Force).

malekith

2011-11-30, 03:15

Even I'm starting to get tired of the seemingly never ending argument. :eyebrow:

How about we put if off until the actual chapter is released?

And, as what has been said before, there is no curbstomping in a friendly spar.

apparently hasnt read swords and shields id think fate would disagree with you

aki isnt the only one who wants some actual charecter development in the franchise.
remember bitching about tsuzuki nerfing and curbstomping vivio in the ground for the sake of making the story easyer to write and not having any actual charecter development come out of it myself.

tsuzuki has a knack for not giving anyone but the semi emo charecters development (yeah im talking about you fate/einhart) and not doing anything with the rest (still think nanohas to bland for a charecter thats been around for five seasons) .

well ill finish my rant here b4 i start typing stuff only i can decipher like usually happens (my main reason for not posting all too much on forums srry for being a lurker but its better than making a fool out of myself and my lacking capability of using proper grammer and sentance building and just giveing people a headache trying to dicipher my hieroglyphs).

Demi.

2011-11-30, 04:09

1st paragraph. What?

2nd paragraph. Huh?

3rd paragraph. No!

4th paragraph: Yes!

Key Board

2011-11-30, 07:27

I've seen spoilers

Signum goes into unison mode with Reinforce to fight Touma

I thought Signum's unison compatibility with Reinforce wasn't very high

Justin_Brett

2011-11-30, 10:01

Signum doesn't need development either way from this because she's already a perfectly developed character. We didn't see a lot of it, yeah, but that's just how it is with some characters. She is what she is, and there's no real need to do anything more. If this happened to Erio or someone less experienced, I might agree with you, but that's not the case.

Keroko

2011-11-30, 10:45

I guess we will see more of Tohma's misterious popularity with the old cast(seriously, the guy is instantly liked by EVERYONE xDU).

How is this special? Every character is liked by everyone in the main cast. Everyone liked Fate when she joined the good guys, everyone liked Hayate when they met her, everyone liked the forwards when they met them, everyone liked Einhart when they met her and now everyone liked Thoma.

Besides, everyone besides Lily and Isis has known Thoma for years.

Justin_Brett

2011-11-30, 10:49

It felt more natural with them.

Keroko

2011-11-30, 10:52

Why? Because they're girls? Because honestly, that's the only real difference here.

Koveras Alvane

2011-11-30, 10:55

I've seen spoilers

Can you give sauce or repost it?

Signum goes into unison mode with Reinforce to fight Touma

I thought Signum's unison compatibility with Reinforce wasn't very high

It wasn't as good as with Agito, but it was still workable and Rein is made from the same basic material as Signum (Hayate's Linker Core, essentially), so their Unison may be less straining on Signum's recuperating body.

00-Raiser

2011-11-30, 11:07

Girls in anime seem to connect... way too easily. I've seen so many animes where two girls, meeting for the very first time, will say "Let's be friends!" and then they're friends. No consideration to be incompatible or anything, they just become friends because they declare it.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 11:24

I've seen spoilers

Signum goes into unison mode with Reinforce to fight Touma

I thought Signum's unison compatibility with Reinforce wasn't very high

I'm confused, exactly what kind of advantage Signum can get from unisoning against someone like Tohma?

It wasn't as good as with Agito, but it was still workable and Rein is made from the same basic material as Signum (Hayate's Linker Core, essentially), so their Unison may be less straining on Signum's recuperating body.

I will run with this theory and guess that Signum isn't completely recovered yet and the unison with Reinforce helps to put herself togheter in order to fight.

How is this special? Every character is liked by everyone in the main cast. Everyone liked Fate when she joined the good guys, everyone liked Hayate when they met her, everyone liked the forwards when they met them, everyone liked Einhart when they met her and now everyone liked Thoma.

Besides, everyone besides Lily and Isis has known Thoma for years.

Yup, but we see developement with most of the other cast when they're joined the heroes. Everyone loved Fate after a long introduction period aided by Nanoha. The Wolkenritter first clashed weapons with the girls before bonding with them, Hayate bonds with Suzuka first and then meets with Nanoha and Fate but only became best friends AFTER the Book of Darkness incident. The forwards get a somewhat free pass for being kids and the old cast being caring mentors to them(and even then they only bond with Nanoha and Fate at first, their relationship with other memeber of the cast is more military professional until latter chapters). Not all the numbers were instantly liked by the heroes and they go rehab before bonding with most of them(the first being Ginga).

I accept Tsuzuki attempted to give some background-ish flashbacks about Subaru and Tohma bu that didn't cover up for the fact that when he finally meet with the good guys everyone is like "hey, it's Tohma! Remeber Tohma? He's our best friend in the world! let's hug him!", compared with the other more developed relationships this feels kinds like out nowhere. It's not terribly jarring, i still think Tohma is an ok character, but is still a bit unsettling.

Keroko

2011-11-30, 11:35

I still don't agree with the sentiment that the other sudden relations in Nanoha were somehow better developed. Particularly in Hayate's en Einhart's case, it was pretty much an "ohai, friends now? Cool." kind of thing. Miura is quickly going down that route as well "Yeah, we only heard about you from people we know and never actually met in person, but we're still going to send you an encouragement before your fight!"

Not to say this is bad, but you can accept all that and have problems with Thoma? I'm sorry, but I cannot help but sense bias here.

Nanya01

2011-11-30, 11:40

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 11:47

I'm not biased against Tohma, really, i don't like him either but so far think he just kind of "exist". To be fair Hayate is a very social person(what about adopting four messengers of doom as your family xD?), and if Einhart was well received it was thanks to Vivio and Nove who make the effort to introduce her to the other characters, it also helps that Einhart is an outstanding fighter, which is something other girl fighters like Rio and Corona find exciting and interesting and thus more motivated to open to Einhart.

I can't deny that you're right on Miura, tough. Even i was surprised at first because she appears and suddenly everyone knows who she is and likes her. The only difference, of course, is that i myself like Miura, heh.

Justin_Brett

2011-11-30, 11:54

Why? Because they're girls? Because honestly, that's the only real difference here.

It didn't feel like them trying to get people to like a character who didn't. Plus the fact that he's friends with them is why he didn't join the Huckebein, which is pretty important considering how the story could have changed otherwise.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 12:39

It didn't feel like them trying to get people to like a character who didn't. Plus the fact that he's friends with them is why he didn't join the Huckebein, which is pretty important considering how the story could have changed otherwise.

Why Tohma starts to sound more and more like Kamui from X/1999?

Whichever side he chooses will be the winning side.

itanshi1

2011-11-30, 13:19

Actually, the problem is not that most fans like girls and yuri. Its that the series is marketed at males and so they force feed us excessive females. (sister princess?) Then we have the whole problem of 'Damn that's like 30 asexual characters. No love life at all. We've seen them grow up to our ages and nothing' at that point if not sooner, we are forced into yuri.

Weakness in story telling that also forces us to believe mid-childa is an amazoness world with a single city.

Justin_Brett

2011-11-30, 15:36

Well, given how the Touma and Lily romance has been going so far, I'm not surprised Tsuzuki never went that route before.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 15:46

To be fair, Tohma's relationship with Lily seems to be more straightforward than previous male-female ones in the frnachise. Unlike Yuuno he's a determined boy that, while gently, is also angry at various aspects of his life and channel that anger into fuel his motivation to cintinue living as himself, in resume, he's a more agressive character and that helps to erase that image of "men are the weak sex in the Nanohaverse". Also, unlike Chrono, is a main character which guarantees he will always receive some decent amount of focus from time to time which will help to(arguably, it depends on Tsuzuki's writing skills) flesh out his developement and relationship with other characters more.

One needs to be blind to not be aware of all the teasing Tsuzuki is making around those two, inner bonding, engage ring, engage suit(black for the male, white for the female), needing Lily to be "himself". Of course, knowing Tsuzuki, this probably will never reach official status but the hints are there. Also, so far, Isis seems to care deeply for both of them like a big sis or something which fits with Tsuzuki's writing style as i think he would prefer to avoid the whole "Love Triangle" thing.

By the way, i don't know why but i have the arkward feeling that Veyron and Curren could make a good couple(well, as "good" as a couple of serial killers can be xDU).

Justin_Brett

2011-11-30, 15:50

Well there's no real marketing reason not to make it official. I doubt that many fans are clamoring for Isis/Lily.

And I dunno. He's only gotten mad once or twice, and only with people who have provoked it.

00-Raiser

2011-11-30, 15:53

Why Tohma starts to sound more and more like Kamui from X/1999?

Whichever side he chooses will be the winning side.

Um, no. Kamui would have only won had he joined the Dragons of the Earth. The Kamui of the Dragons of Heaven was always destined to lose.

Well, given how the Touma and Lily romance has been going so far

You mean not at all? :heh:

People only assume there's going to be a romance between them because he's a boy and she's a girl. They've shown no such interest in each other.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 15:54

Well there's no real marketing reason not to make it official. I doubt that many fans are clamoring for Isis/Lily.

Yup, fans are more busy clamoring for Isis/Arnage xD!

And I dunno. He's only gotten mad once or twice, and only with people who have provoked it.

But lots of people already acknowledged to his hidden anger, Tohma is a goob boy without doubt but he also hides inner pain and anger for what happened to him and his loved ones. A pain strong enough to not letting him enjoy the happiness of a new caring family, he started his journy to find answers and find the possibility of getting over his pain in order to allow herself to accept and enjoy a new life full of happiness.

Um, no. Kamui would have only won had he joined the Dragons of the Earth. The Kamui of the Dragons of Heaven was always destined to lose.

That's only true for one of the three installements, X is a very weird case with three different media using three different endings. Dragons of earth win in the Movie, Dragons of heaven "win" in the anime, and the manga is currently unconclusive so we are still waiting for the true finale.

People only assume there's going to be a romance between them because he's a boy and she's a girl. They've shown no such interest in each other.

Not yet, and probably never gonna happen, but one can deny the insane amount of "bridal" imagery and simbolism surrounding the duo. I'm pretty sure we will never get to see images of Chrono, Yuuno or Zafira in a tuxedo carrying a girl dressed as a bride xDU.

Justin_Brett

2011-11-30, 16:01

He doesn't necessarily have to be bitter and angry to want revenge over something. So far he's more Shirou than Van from Gun X Sword. If he is hiding those things and suddenly goes ballistic, that sounds kind of asspully the way things are going.

People only assume there's going to be a romance between them because he's a boy and she's a girl. They've shown no such interest in each other.

I hope not, then. I've seen this sort of romance before, and done better.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 16:18

He doesn't necessarily have to be bitter and angry to want revenge over something. So far he's more Shirou than Van from Gun X Sword. If he is hiding those things and suddenly goes ballistic, that sounds kind of asspully the way things are going.

The thing is, he already do that before ....Divide Zero ECLIPSE, remember?

I hope not, then. I've seen this sort of romance before, and done better.

Like Raiser said, is very improbable, the story didn't allow for romantic developement, if some romance ever is explored i think it will be kind of a "Macross Romance" or a "Gundam" one, something like "our hearts find comfort in each other and togheter gather strenght to survive this difficult times of war" or something like that.

Justin_Brett

2011-11-30, 16:25

So, a canonical one? That's what most romances in Gundam and Macross are, for better or worse.

And yeah it did, but it also put him in a coma shortly afterward. He wasn't willingly fighting anyone for the most part.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 16:29

So, a canonical one? That's what most romances in Gundam and Macross are, for better or worse.

Just myself talking "out of my butt" as always xD

And yeah it did, but it also put him in a coma shortly afterward. He wasn't willingly fighting anyone for the most part.

Agreed, but the point is, we learned that Tohma is also screwed up to some degree, we learned about the existence of the pain and anger inside his heart.

Justin_Brett

2011-11-30, 16:32

Yeah, but if it just pops up now and then for berserker moments and doesn't affect his character outside of that...

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 16:56

Well, i think we won't see that part of him for a while, until the stakes are against the heroes(be by the Huckebein or by the true villains of the story).

EDIT: Page claimed for Signum (http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?groupid=383). The woman i hope manage to shut my mouth in the following chapters T-T

LostSome

2011-11-30, 16:59

Are we getting a full chapter this month ?

I`ll wait to see how human Lily is... Besides I like Isis better.:heh:

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 17:06

Are we getting a full chapter this month ?

I`ll wait to see how human Lily is... Besides I like Isis better.:heh:

Apparently yes, we're get a full chapter.

I started to open more to Lily as she's progressively become a more active and assertive character without losing her gently and feminine traits. She's a more classic heroine in comparission with the group of amazoness we're accustomed to see. Her strenght comes not from her body but from her willpower. I also like Isis but i think i'll wait a bit more to see how her character develop.

LostSome

2011-11-30, 17:17

Apparently yes, we're get a full chapter.

I started to open more to Lily as she's progressively become a more active and assertive character without losing her gently and feminine traits. She's a more classic heroine in comparission with the group of amazoness we're accustomed to see. Her strenght comes not from her body but from her willpower. I also like Isis but i think i'll wait a bit more to see how her character develop.

Yeah !

Well... What happen to her the last chapters almost put her in the "comic" character.:(
Can`t say I`m a fan of that.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 17:27

Yeah !

Well... What happen to her the last chapters almost put her in the "comic" character.:(
Can`t say I`m a fan of that.

Normally i would enjoy the comedy but Force have a severe case of Mood Whiplash, they think a goofy face or a little moment of sillinyess will be enough to make us forget about all the sadistic ordeal our heroes are suffering. Normally that's not a bad idea but force usually do that without any segway or set up whatsoever so at least i'm mostly unable to enjoy the "joke" of the moment.

Justin_Brett

2011-11-30, 19:10

Well, i think we won't see that part of him for a while, until the stakes are against the heroes(be by the Huckebein or by the true villains of the story).

I hope it happens sooner. Stuff a character did once or twice becoming their whole personality is always a danger with fans. Especially in this series.

Akiyoshi

2011-11-30, 19:17

Well, one possibility is that Curren starts teasing him in order to lure him to the Dark Side, after all, Curren reasures her family that Tohma will definetly be one of them. I guess there will be a moment in the season when Tohma temporary be part of the Hucks.

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-01, 02:47

Yup, but we see developement with most of the other cast when they're joined the heroes. Everyone loved Fate after a long introduction period aided by Nanoha. The Wolkenritter first clashed weapons with the girls before bonding with them, Hayate bonds with Suzuka first and then meets with Nanoha and Fate but only became best friends AFTER the Book of Darkness incident. The forwards get a somewhat free pass for being kids and the old cast being caring mentors to them(and even then they only bond with Nanoha and Fate at first, their relationship with other memeber of the cast is more military professional until latter chapters). Not all the numbers were instantly liked by the heroes and they go rehab before bonding with most of them(the first being Ginga).

I accept Tsuzuki attempted to give some background-ish flashbacks about Subaru and Tohma bu that didn't cover up for the fact that when he finally meet with the good guys everyone is like "hey, it's Tohma! Remeber Tohma? He's our best friend in the world! let's hug him!", compared with the other more developed relationships this feels kinds like out nowhere. It's not terribly jarring, i still think Tohma is an ok character, but is still a bit unsettling.

That's why in de facto, he was accepted by Nanoha and friends, even the author and illustrator themselves. But in de jure or fandom, he's labeled with "Persona Non Grata" status, including the Huckebeins.

malekith

2011-12-01, 08:15

about thoma being accepted so easily in the franchise/family from what i remember subaru found thoma 2 years b4 force around the vivid time period so theres a possibilty he might make an appearance later in that manga and tsuzuki is having vivio appear in force as an excuse to let that happen without to much backlash from the fans well it might not happen but it did come to mind

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-01, 09:16

Received easily by Nanoha and co, it's easy. However, to get recognition by fandom, it's hard. Given the label of "Persona Non Grata" has been glued to him. Acquainted with Nanoha and the others never been done, especially invited to sharing painful backstory together with returning characters, like Subaru.

And indeed, in Chapter 17, he was talking about Vivio. And indeed, in Chapter 17, he was talking about Vivio. How could he possibly know Nanoha and friends, whereas he himself had never met before.

Kuze

2011-12-01, 09:34

The thing is, it's been seven years since Touma and Subaru met.

Subaru. She's not Scott Summers about people who she considers to be family. People end up learning who they are.

And besides, who has been doing any kind of real bonding with Touma? The rehab numbers, the Nakajimas, Teana, Erio, Caro, the woman from the orphanage and the kids there, Lily and Isis.

Nanoha? She wanted to save him. Well oh my gosh, that's what she does with everyone who needs it as a matter of fact, no one was complaining about how everybody was all of sudden loving Subaru at the airport.

Fate sat down, and asked him questions as a Enforcer, not as the motherly "I understand pain" figure that she was with Erio.

Hayate by all accounts hasn't even had any kind of casual conversation with him. It's questionable whether or not the rest of the Wolfram crew knows what's his vocal range.

I have no interest in starting up a confrontation over whether it's over reaching that Vivio knows Touma, or Touma knows Vivio.

Shamal hadn't met him. Signum hadn't met him. Zafira, Agito, Rein Zwei and Vita, likewise. In fact, a hell of a lot of people wouldn't know him or of him had he not met with Lily.

And in the end, this is the series where people tend to be very open about their close acquaintances. It's not the greatest writing ever, but it is in line with what goes on in series. The only real difference between him and Einhart is that the first meeting with Nanoha and Hayate and absolutely everybody else happened on screen. And frankly, most of those were pretty dull.

How could he possibly know Nanoha and friends, whereas he himself had never met before.

End of chapter 4. He had met Nanoha before.

00-Raiser

2011-12-01, 10:29

Yeah, pretty much that. He knows Subaru, and by extension her whole social network. Any he did not meet directy they would know he is "Subaru's little brother" and treat him nicely. Why wouldn't they?

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 11:26

Shamal hadn't met him. Signum hadn't met him. Zafira, Agito, Rein Zwei and Vita, likewise. In fact, a hell of a lot of people wouldn't know him or of him had he not met with Lily.

Uhmmm... he already meet Shamal and she was pretty nice to him, Signum and Agito also meet him but didn't have time to socialize with him beacouse of ummm... "some other reasons" that keeped them busy xDU. Hayate is already nice to him even when not faced him yet(talk with Teana and Wendy). Vita is so far the only one vocal about her distrust of the kid and i wonder if Signum will follow her opinion about Tohma which is doubtful since she trust the kid enough to put her life in his hands during a sparring match, so i think Signum already softened to him somewhat(understandable, he's the kid she failed to save after all. So i guess she feels the need of compensate him in some manner).

Justin_Brett

2011-12-01, 13:35

Vita's opinion basically got veto'd, so it probably won't matter either way.

itanshi1

2011-12-01, 15:29

People are so forgiving of him, he did kill a bunch of the main characters for a second. Putting their science aside, one heart attack does raise the risk greatly for another in our science. :3

00-Raiser

2011-12-01, 15:33

If your definition of death is cardiac death, then yeah :heh: But if you go by brain death he didn't kill anyone!

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 15:47

Vita's opinion basically got veto'd, so it probably won't matter either way.

Well, yeah, it's hard to argue against the White Devil...

Vita: I think we shoul be carefull with that kid, he looks suspicious added to the fact the we don't know how unstable his powers are.

Nanoha: But Tohma is a good kid, don't you think, Vita?

Vita: Well, yeah, but i still think we shoul-

Nanoha: But tohma is a "good kid", don't you think, Viiita?

Vita: *gulp* ehh... yeah, sure, he seems like a good kid

Nanoha: fine ^_^

People are so forgiving of him, he did kill a bunch of the main characters for a second. Putting their science aside, one heart attack does raise the risk greatly for another in our science. :3

Which is why i'm gratefull with Vita's healthy scepticism about the kid. It's amusing to see how a former hothead like her is now one of the more level-headed characters of the cast. How mature you have become Vita-chan xD!

Keroko

2011-12-01, 15:51

The Nanoha cast is filled with people who nearly killed the entire planet before. The Wolkenritter actually have on countless occasions. What Thoma did is rather mild by comparison.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 15:59

The Nanoha cast is filled with people who nearly killed the entire planet before. The Wolkenritter actually have on countless occasions. What Thoma did is rather mild by comparison.

In comparission with the Wolkenritter exlcusively. If anything, they should be the ones more open to forgive and symphasize with him. Instead, Nanoha and her crew seems to be the forgiving ones with only Shamal, Hayate and Rein openly showing support for the kid while Vita is being cautious of him, Signum is reserving her opinion so far and Zafira is nowhere to be seen xDU.

Kuze

2011-12-01, 16:01

Tense, tense Aki! I said that she hadn't, not that she hasn't. As far as the Wolkenritter go, we have seen them actually meet Touma for the first time, on panel. Except for Zafira. Who is, I don't know, being walked by Hayate so that he can take his bathroom breaks? Out in public?

....in human form, oh god, why did I even read that doujin. I like your work Jouji Manabe, but you go crazy sometimes.

But in either case, Signum isn't going to know anything about Touma unless, you know, takes her chances. Which is how these things work.

I'm waiting to see if the new trio are actually being told they are sooooo amazing in training, and have been already certified combat ready, or not because no jumping overboard yet, and molehills, mountains, et cetera.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 17:03

Ok, activating ultra-objective mode, no whining and no bias.

3... 2... 1... ok let's go!

Nanoha already acknowledged Tohma's innate talent for both bombardement magic and swordsmanship and of course is excited about the possibility of being the one who polish said talents. Knowing Signum, she probably be curious about said statement being a swordfighter herself, also probably she makes her own conclusions about how to fight an Eclipse Driver from her defeat at the hands of Cypha. So now that Section Six have their own eclipse driver, Signum may want to test her theories in battle and to her nothing will be better than having the strongest Eclipse Driver at her dispossal to do it.

One of three plausible things popped up in my mind about the results of this(of course, putting aside all the other biased possibilites that have Signum being curbstompped by the kid xDU) are:

a) Tohma defeats Signum(or corner her which can also be counted as a "defeat" in a sparring match) and everybody is amazed but Signum is unconvinced and tells Tohma he needs to be even better than that but thanks him for allowing her the chance to fight him.

b) Signum struggles at first but discover some important flaw in Tohma's attack pattern that allow her to defeat/corner him followed by some indication that Tohma is indeed absurdly powerfull but lacks the skill/experience to use said power to it's full potential and warns him that if she was able to find openings in his fight-style other adversaries will also be able to do so. Tohma, being the honest kid he is, will thank her for her advice.

c) Neither of them actually manage to completely disable their opponent, Signum then can take the same attitude as in the other two examples or in the contrary will congrat him for being a tough adversary and will praise Nanoha's statement about his potential. Then she'll ask Tohma for a future chance of continuing their practice, Tohma will gladly accept.

Taking into consideration the circunstances around Signum and Tohma i think she will try to do something for the kid, specially after she get to know about Tohma's past, she already was teased by Cypha about the cruel destiny that is awaiting for him as also telling her she will be unable to save him. After knowing the early hardships of his life probably she will feel identified with the boy, possibly even developing a sisterly liking of him. Naturally, Signum being Signum, she probably won't be open about this and there's even the possibility that she behave strict and cold towards him, after all, she didn't have a close relationship with him and because of this she probably decides to protect and help him from the distace, letting Subaru and the other more caring girls taking care of the emotional support.

....oooor probably i'm just talking buckets of nonsense again xDU

...."ultra-objective mode" shutting down in ...3 ...2 ...1

OFF!

Phew! i feel my head spinning xDU

EDIT: Page claimed for my first lucid post about Signum (http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?groupid=383) in MONTHS!

Keroko

2011-12-01, 17:38

LostSome

2011-12-01, 17:48

I kind of having a problem with getting from "you`re a sick person in need of a cure" to " you must grow stronger".
Or is being infected not a bad thing anymore ?

Rising Dragon

2011-12-01, 17:49

Touma's being treated for his infection, so as long as he continues said treatments it shouldn't be much of a problem for the rest of the force.

itanshi1

2011-12-01, 17:53

AIDs? C'mon tsuzuki show some back bone

LostSome

2011-12-01, 17:57

Lily is the one that is keeping his infection down and he had to have her at his side at all time. Not exactly a cure...
I don`t think I would be playing with his infection since the fight between the infected have shown, the more you`re infected, the stronger you are.

Keroko

2011-12-01, 18:03

I kind of having a problem with getting from "you`re a sick person in need of a cure" to " you must grow stronger".
Or is being infected not a bad thing anymore ?

He's not exactly sick with a disease that forces him on the bed. But he has taken upon himself the responsibility of protecting people, a sentiment Signum can understand perfectly, and is a very common jumping board for the "you must become stronger" cliche.

malekith

2011-12-01, 18:07

i think he/she meant getting stronger as in getting better techniques and experiance as far as has been shown b4 striker had begun thoma had hardly any to no training all of his attacks were the tomb on autopilot not thoma himself he might need quite a bit of training to be able to fight at the lvl he has earlier in the series by his own will

00-Raiser

2011-12-01, 18:09

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 18:10

I wouldn't put it past Tsuzuki to have Signum curbstomp Thoma (experience fighting a Huck + Thoma no longer being controlled) in order to set up a "you must grow stronger if you want to protect the people you love" story.

Probably, maybe Signum wants Tohma to cash more on his natural talent than the automatic battling powers of the Silver Cross. Still, i doubt Signum will "curbstomp" him, not after Tsuzuki already claimed that Tohma is the strongest character of the new cast. If Signum manage to win, i think it only be after Tohma show a couple of cool flashy moves of his own, we musn't forget that Isis and Lily are also aiding him in battle.

Assuming my previous statement of Lily being superior rein and Agito is only an exaggeration i wonder if Tsuzuki have plans for them, they seem to be motivated during that fight. Did Tsuzuki have planned something for them? A power-up? a new way to use their current powers? I admit it will be nice if Tsuzuki actually think about a way for the little unison sisters to get around their horrid disadvantage and manage to be of some utility on the battlefield again.

Touma's being treated for his infection, so as long as he continues said treatments it shouldn't be much of a problem for the rest of the force.

I wonder if Tohma will now have something of a time or power limit while accesing his uberhaxx mode, something like "using the full power of the book/divider will raise the chances of making your infection unstable again" So Tohma will be limited to use his game breaker powers only as a last resource.

Lily is the one that is keeping his infection down and he had to have her at his side at all time. Not exactly a cure...
I don`t think I would be playing with his infection since the fight between the infected have shown, the more you`re infected, the stronger you are.

Probably but maybe Lily is councsious about the consequences of abusing the viral powers, the virus description says that no matter how powerfull they are, Eclipse Drivers always meet an untimely violent death. an infected person can releiev the symptoms of the disease by killing and cutting loose periodically but that's not a cure, the virus is still working in their bodies, what if the virus become more progressively exigent with the amont of violence and madness released when time passes? It probably reach a point when the host's body can take the sudden outburst anymore and finally surrenders to the final fate of an Eclipse Infected. that also could explain the desperate attempts of the Huckebein to find a real way to control the virus as also their distrust of the TSAB's methods due to them considering those "inefficient".

He's not exactly sick with a disease that forces him on the bed. But he has taken upon himself the responsibility of protecting people, a sentiment Signum can understand perfectly, and is a very common jumping board for the "you must become stronger" cliche.

Yup, sounds pretty plausible.

LostSome

2011-12-01, 18:14

Thanks, Raiser.

Sexy Curren ? I`m always up for that.
And yeah, I kind of knew Curren had a link with Thoma.

Rising Dragon

2011-12-01, 18:14

I wonder if Tohma will now have something of a time or power limit while accesing his uberhaxx mode, something like "using the full power of the book/divider will raise the chances of making your infection unstable again" So Tohma will be limited to use his game breaker powers only as a last resource.

Sounds plausible and possible to me. Nanoha's super-mode in StrikerS had its own life-threatening drawbacks, after all. Touma's has bigger risks in that he didn't choose to have such powers; Nanoha at least volunteered to use Blaster Mode.

EDIT: Wouldn't surprise me if all the Books of the Silver Cross are interconnected with one another.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 18:19

Oh hey gaiz, guess what?

No one wins. They blow each other up, but Isis and Agito defend them.

They were in the mock battle when Vivio showed up so we don't get to see her interact with Thoma this month :(

Thoma and Lily sleep in the same bed. Gasp! Any two people who share a bed must be a couple!

Either Thoma's book has a direct line of communication with Curren, or Curren left a pre-recorded message in it. Lookin' hot in her casual clothes, though.

Meanwhile, Mr Twirly Pen Guy is all :D and holding a Divider. Dun dun dun.

A draw, like every other mock battle in the series ...surprise, surprise xDU

LOL! well, the formation makes sense, Rein and Lily perform Unison while Agito and Isis give support firepower(Agito's powers can't do a thing to Tohma but are perfectly able to work on Isis). Shame we weren't able to see the interaction between Signum and the kids, it really amuses me how they will interact or if at least Lily remembers who Signum and Agito are but hey! It's Vivio!

Tohma + Lily + bed! And you guys told me there are no hints between them xD

I wonder if Curren really have a direct connection with Tohma through their Eclipse powers, like Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader who sometimes are able to communicate or share toughts throught "The Force".

Curren: Come to the dark side! We can rule togheter as sister and brother!

Looks like we finally gonna met the true Big Bad or at least the True Big Bad's Dragon.

ZeroIchiNi

2011-12-01, 18:20

Oh hey gaiz, guess what?

No one wins. They blow each other up, but Isis and Agito defend them.

How many Draws are we up to in this series? and they all are in mock battles right? Did the one who's winning goes "maybe I should make it a draw so that there are no hard feelings"?

Okay who's in better condition?

Edit: Ninjaed

itanshi1

2011-12-01, 18:26

well if they keep nuking the battlefield, yeah there will be a draw. :3 such maniacs they are

LostSome

2011-12-01, 18:27

I wonder if Curren really have a direct connection with Tohma through their Eclipse powers, like Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader who sometimes are able to communicate or share toughts throught "The Force".

Curren: Come to the dark side! We can rule togheter as sister and brother!

Looks like we finally gonna met the true Big Bad or at least the True Big Bad's Dragon.

Curren being Thoma`s mother or sister ? Why not ?:heh:

God... TSAB needs somekind of eclipse detector. Double:heh:!

Justin_Brett

2011-12-01, 18:33

Either Thoma's book has a direct line of communication with Curren, or Curren left a pre-recorded message in it.

That second part is impossible. She never got anywhere near him.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 18:37

Finally watched the scans...

Damn! I was being sarcastic with the whole "Signum raises from bed and immediately rushes after Tohma" thing but it ended up to be exactly what happened xDU. Good to see her trying to be usefull again, it makes me feel a bit better, i'll wait for the moment she gets to reclaim her badassitude back(ok, ok, that's the last one for today, i promise xDU). Another thing i'm glad for is that Signum isn't ignoring what just happened to her, she behaves like her usual self around Agito in order to not worry her(Agito is UNDERSTANDABLY worried about Signum's well-being) but when she's walking and the camera focuses her she makes a soft-worried expression, i'll be waiting madly for the translation in order to see what her toughts are.

Just as i tought she is nice-yet-professional to Tohma and politely asks him for a battle, Agito is still worried but Rein is surprisingly enthusiastic about the whole thing.

This battle really confuses me. First of all, Signum didn't showed any visible upgrade(which i'm partly glad for as i think she's perfecet as that) which left me confused about why Laevateinn didn't crumbled to pieces upon clashing with a reacted high caliber Divider, maybe Tohma is able to turn off the anti-magic of his equipement? that also could explain how Agito and Rein are able to defend Signum from Silver Cross's bombardment attack as also why Signum didn't fall on a hospital again after being blasted by Tohma's divider.

Context DAMN IT! I NEED CONTEXT!

LostSome

2011-12-01, 18:39

That second part is impossible. She never got anywhere near him.

Actually, Curren said that she got a good look at him and since we have not idea how she got to Hayate, I`m not saying she could not.

Also, since it was never shown what happen after Thoma fired the Zero...
I say she could have mess with him all she wanted before he appeared before Lily and Isis.:uhoh:

Rising Dragon

2011-12-01, 18:41

Doubtful. The Tome knocked Isis out for raising her voice at him; I seriously doubt Curren would've risked going near him in that moment.

Justin_Brett

2011-12-01, 18:43

Unless Curren is fast enough that she can fly over to him, screw around with the book and get back without it noticing she moved in the first place.

Which, hey, I could see.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 18:43

What if curren have means of protection against tohma's basic powers? She's another Book user after all(maybe my theory abot her being also a Zero Driver isn't as crazy as i tought).

LostSome

2011-12-01, 18:48

Like you need direct contact with the book...
Lily tried to contact the book from the ship, but the book didn`t recognized her.

Curren`s being immune to the Zero won`t surprised me one bit.

00-Raiser

2011-12-01, 19:22

I was thinking prerecorded as in a non-specific message recorded before Thoma even got the book. "To whoever holds this book" sort of thing.

Also, I said no one won, but that's because the battle might still be ongoing.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 19:32

Also, I said no one won, but that's because the battle might still be ongoing.

Who knows, Signum petting Agito and Tohma ebing all SD seems to indicate the battle is over, i might be worng, tough.

By the way, Seeing Agito in full size with her new jacket alongside the similar clothed Signum gives me vibes of a classic superhero and his sidekick xD!

Captain Belka and Becky are here to save the day xD!

Justin_Brett

2011-12-01, 20:04

I was thinking prerecorded as in a non-specific message recorded before Thoma even got the book. "To whoever holds this book" sort of thing.

That would be pushing it even for a planning villain. Just leave it in a ruin somewhere and hope whoever finds it can activate it properly? What if the TSAB found it?

biodude711

2011-12-01, 20:21

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 20:57

That would be pushing it even for a planning villain. Just leave it in a ruin somewhere and hope whoever finds it can activate it properly? What if the TSAB found it?

Probably Curren DID have something to do with Tohma's doomed hometown?

Kuze

2011-12-01, 21:24

- Isis saves a fortune on clothes, by making her own. I bet you that she also knows how to blow glass, and made her own cup.

- Careful there Lily. Anyone with photoshop can lower your position by half a meter, and open your mouth a little. Instant fun implications ahoy, the new way of getting up.

- As trainees, part of their duties involve cleaning their rooms, taking drinks to...everyone, and using a terminal. Maybe they should all change their clothes to French Maid? :heh:

- Unison programs get along well. Makes you wonder, who's inside the Book of the Silver Cross to be so utterly hostile? Ilya?

- ...Hayate, is that Lindy's cup?

- "no, I DON'T want you to start killing everyone. We have got to get this relationship straightened out."

- "no, I DON'T want to be your brother so that we go on family outings and kill everyone in sight. We have got to get this misunderstanding straightened out."

- "No, I DON'T want you to get hurt by overdoing it. We have got to get this partnership of ours straightened out."

- Oh Agito, didn't you pretty much tell Signum that she should never back down from adversity? Also, she doesn't seem to trust Touma and co. very much.

- You know what, I think I might understand for what is Vivio there. She's got a picnic basket in her left hand. Are they back on Mid already?

- I really hope that we just missed most of the fight. Although I liked what Agito and Isis did. They understand how to watch their partner.

- I totally bet you that the pen was the unreacted Divider. Next time, he tells us "I told u i was hardcore"

Not to start fueling yet another storm of speculation, but according to the volume briefs, when Touma first saw Lily, his eyes changed color and started bleeding because information was being transmitted straight into his mind. Which it didn't do for anyone else.

Now, I know that there's a hint of destiny/chosen one/causality/whatever being behind Nanoha getting Raising Heart, and there are indications that Touma was the chosen one of Eclipse in much the same way....

but, my paranoid mind is going places that it didn't before, and I'm going to stop talking about it right now.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 21:31

- I really hope that we just missed most of the fight. Although I liked what Agito and Isis did. They understand how to watch their partner.

Do you understand what they do? becuase i was left mostly confused. I'll gladly listen to your explanation xD

Justin_Brett

2011-12-01, 21:33

Not to start fueling yet another storm of speculation, but according to the volume briefs, when Touma first saw Lily, his eyes changed color and started bleeding because information was being transmitted straight into his mind. Which it didn't do for anyone else.

I don't remember this at all.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-01, 21:35

I don't remember this at all.

I do, it happened in Ch. 01. But we don't have any confirmation that Tohma is the only one that undergoes this process because we haven't seen how the huckebein got their infection.

Rising Dragon

2011-12-01, 22:24

Dunno about the eye changing color or data transmission causing it, but Touma definitely had ocular bleeding when he neared Lily's position in chapter 1.

Koveras Alvane

2011-12-02, 02:11

I love how Agito goes all tsuntsun and protective over Signum in this chapter. :hyper-^v^: Their relationship definitely needs more screentime/pagespace.

Thoma and Lily sleep in the same bed. Gasp! Any two people who share a bed must be a couple!

Well, of course, that has been a indisputable fact ever since StrikerS ep.2. ;)

Either Thoma's book has a direct line of communication with Curren, or Curren left a pre-recorded message in it. Lookin' hot in her casual clothes, though.

And here I was, thinking that "Curren looks hot" is a tautology, regardless of her clothes. :D

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 02:31

I love how Agito goes all tsuntsun and protective over Signum in this chapter. :hyper-^v^: Their relationship definitely needs more screentime/pagespace.

Totally agreed ToT

Agito-chan just become my favourite woobie of the franchise(sorry Fate, Vivio, Caro, Teana and Erio xDU). She tries her best evertime and is always slapped in the face by destiny yet she keeps trying. She was treated like a lab rat, then she lost her beloved first master and now she was impotent to protect her current master and almost lost her too, her over-protectiveness towards Signum is very justifiable.

Poor little creature makes me want to hug her T-T

Koveras Alvane

2011-12-02, 02:51

Now that I think about it, Signum's eagerness to fight Thoma is fully understandable even without his Creator's Pet status factoring in. The last thing she knows is her sound defeat by an Eclipse Driver, and Signum is the kind of person who strives to overcome all her weaknesses ASAP. No wonder, then, that the moment she discovers they have a cooperative EC Driver at the base, she pretty much has no choice but to go fight him.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 02:57

malekith

2011-12-02, 04:46

^ Yup, that's one of the possible reasons i tought a couple of pages before.

I'm still waiting for context since this fight is clear evidence that:

a) Tohma can effectively shut down the Anti-Magic aspects of his equipement and energy attacks in it's enterity or...

b) Signum found a way to get around that ....or...

c) Laevatein got some internal upgrade(as no noticeable changes are made in it's appearance) that enables him to allow Signum a decent fight against and Eclipse Driver.

I'm almost sure "a" is the answer but i still wait for official confirmation.

ther is a chance that c is the awnser and tsuzuki didnt change lavantines appearence cause signum has become a sensitive subject or hell suddenly get a make-over later on just like lulu's barrier jacket got

btw fun fact i went over the all of the scens and chapters lutecia appears just to confirm it and the only people the call her lulu are vivio and agito everyone else calls her luu-chan wanted to mention it for sheer cuteness, (and vertain peoples subtext)

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 05:14

ther is a chance that c is the awnser and tsuzuki didnt change lavantines appearence cause signum has become a sensitive subject or hell suddenly get a make-over later on just like lulu's barrier jacket got.

Another fact that may be support the "c" option is the fact that Signum apparenlty relies almost completely on Laevatein and Agito for defense, which only make sense if Tohma's Anti-Magic is working and thus rendering useless Signum's otherwise powerfull magical defenses. She intercepted almost any attack with her sword and manage to deliver some strikes to the kid but after Tohma's bombardment attack she looked a bit trashed which further supports the aformentioned argument about her defenses not working.

Kuze

2011-12-02, 10:09

Do you understand what they do?

Block the attack and guard their partner. Not necessary in this case, but better safer than sorry - which is how things are supposed to work in combat.

Dunno about the eye changing color or data transmission causing it, but Touma definitely had ocular bleeding when he neared Lily's position in chapter 1.

From the back of Volume 1, it had a small explanation on how reacting works. The JP Nanoha wiki transcribed it:
媒体同士が近接・接触したことにより何らかの反応を示していること。Record01での「媒体」はリリィ・トーマのことを指す。
このときにトーマを襲った頭痛と眼球の痛みは、網膜経由で何らかの圧縮された情報がトーマの脳内にインプットされたことが原因。これにより眼球周辺から出血している。ディバイダーは駆動触媒である「リアクター」を介して「リアクト」することで、術者自身とディバイダーの全機能を開放する。

Alvane's friend helpfully added the translation, all credit to him. :)

Now, all of the other guys who were forced into reaction didn't have that information upload it seems. Their flesh just went all poopy.

I refuse to speculate anymore on that though.

Justin_Brett

2011-12-02, 10:19

Now that I think about it, Signum's eagerness to fight Thoma is fully understandable even without his Creator's Pet status factoring in.

Nah, he's nowhere near bad enough to fit that trope.

LostSome

2011-12-02, 11:38

And here I was, thinking that "Curren looks hot" is a tautology, regardless of her clothes. :D

Of course you are right.:D
First we get the business outfits, than Arnage`s new outfit, now Curren...
I`m so hoping for some hot Cypha next month !:D
There is a big lack of fan service for the old cast in Force...:(
Teana in her training gear was pretty hot though.:cool:

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 12:05

Block the attack and guard their partner. Not necessary in this case, but better safer than sorry - which is how things are supposed to work in combat.

Yup, i only want to know how Agito even managed to block one of Tohma's attacks in first place. From what i've seen there was apparently big explosions so i'll throw a wild theory here and say Agito shifted from her usual attack-style of throwing magical fire and concentrated into only generate explosions, thus using the kinetic force of the blasts to attack/defend against Eclipse-based attacks.

Now, all of the other guys who were forced into reaction didn't have that information upload it seems. Their flesh just went all poopy.

Yeah, those guys didn't pass the test and become bloody meat balls but what about the Huckebein, what kind of process they undergo? What about Dego and Marty?

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 12:59

But what about the Huckebein, what kind of process they undergo? What about Dego and Marty?

I don't know. Maybe the author deliberately didn't want to give the "secret recipe" to survive without becoming a disgusting meatball.

Justin_Brett

2011-12-02, 13:06

Found the scans.

Someone needs to tell whoever makes these jokes that they're not funny. Yelling at the Book with a wacky anime face doesn't make me forget it's a dangerous artifact that wants to kill everything around it, sorry.

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 13:08

00-Raiser

2011-12-02, 13:10

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 13:11

Someone needs to tell whoever makes these jokes that they're not funny. Yelling at the Book with a wacky anime face doesn't make me forget it's a dangerous artifact that wants to kill everything around it, sorry.

Share the feeling, specially because just after that we see Curren being annoyingly cheerful as always with Stella in her lap. Like a Bond movie villain petting his cat while talking about world domination xDU.

Justin_Brett

2011-12-02, 13:14

...why is the Force NEXT picture of Fate fighting Cypha? After a chapter about Signum doing shit again, you don't even depict her with the person she's gonna fight soon?

And what was with that attack font around Signum when she was just standing there? Nothing looked different.

Koveras Alvane

2011-12-02, 13:15

Nah, he's nowhere near bad enough to fit that trope.

We will see soon enough. If his current favored status turns out to be just a breather sequence before things get much worse for him, I will be the first to apologize. ^^

Can you give the scans? Just curious

The scans can be found at the usual place that we are not allowed to post links to from public threads. :)

...why is the Force NEXT picture of Fate fighting Cypha? After a chapter about Signum doing shit again, you don't even depict her with the person she's gonna fight soon?

Because she still has to avenge her ex-GF, before said ex kills her wrongdoer dead. :uhoh:

biodude711

2011-12-02, 13:16

...why is the Force NEXT picture of Fate fighting Cypha?

Sauce?

10char.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 13:21

...why is the Force NEXT picture of Fate fighting Cypha? After a chapter about Signum doing shit again, you don't even depict her with the person she's gonna fight soon?

Because, again, Tsuzuki wants to follow the Lamia Loveless copy/paste to the bone and deny Signum from the chance of avenging her own fall by having another character getting rid of her "rival" first?

Because she still has to avenge her ex-GF, before said ex kills her wrongdoer dead. :uhoh:

If Fate defeats Cypha first but she manage to get to fight Signum i hope at least that Signum somehow manage to defeat Cypha in a more awesome way, otherwise it will be pointless by that point.

LostSome

2011-12-02, 13:23

Didn`t Fate and Cypha already fight inside the Huck ship ?
Like all of Fate`s fights, it was offscreen...

Justin_Brett

2011-12-02, 13:25

Yeah they did, so why make another picture of it?

biodude711

2011-12-02, 13:27

Yeah they did, so why make another picture of it?

To satisfy the fans, why else?

Justin_Brett

2011-12-02, 13:28

I was hoping that wouldn't be the answer for once.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 13:30

Yeah they did, so why make another picture of it?

Ok, to be fair, maaaaaybe this picture is an alternate art from that fight in Ch. 9, after all, the other NEXT designs from the 2nd wave are also representing bits of past chapters, and, as the "Thoma+Lily Hug" and "Cowboy Arnage" images shown, not all images are faithfull depictions of how a scene was originally sketched.

Justin_Brett

2011-12-02, 13:31

Putting it after THIS chapter is kind of a kick in the ass, though.

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 13:31

Share the feeling, specially because just after that we see Curren being annoyingly cheerful as always with Stella in her lap. Like a Bond movie villain petting his cat while talking about world domination xDU.

Well, this one fits suitable to describe what is happening today.

Spot any inconsistency? Need any explanation? Pick one:
1. Eclipse.
2. Caledfwlch Techs shiny new AEC Equipment.
3. Curren is trolling all around again.
4. It's a Vandin Corp's conspiracy (thanks for Akiyoshi and biodude)

Once I saw at the end of the chapter, I said "Gosh! Is that a replica Divider!?". How could this happen? Plus I saw the Vandin's CEO goofy yet silly smile while holding a Replica Divider!

The problem even worse than before.

PS: This description is a modified version of one of the Touhou memes.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 13:32

Putting it after THIS chapter is kind of a kick in the ass, though.

Indeed Justin, indeed.

Mine still hurts T-T

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 13:41

Me too. All of this conspiracy theory and Curren's trolling attitude makes me headache.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 13:42

Me too. All of this conspiracy theory and Curren trolling to Thoma makes me dizzy. Someone should serve a cup of hot tea with mint flavor.

Yeah, but i agree with Justin in that make out-of-place jokes and goofy faces aren't the solution for this, it's quite annoying and somewhat disturbing instead of funny.

biodude711

2011-12-02, 13:49

Well, this one fits suitable to describe what is happening today.

Spot any inconsistency? Need any explanation? Pick one:
1. Eclipse.
2. Caledfwlch Techs shiny new AEC Equipment.
3. Curren is trolling all around again.
4. It's a Vandin Corp's conspiracy (thanks for Akiyoshi and biodude)

Once I saw at the end of the chapter, I said "Gosh! Is that a replica Divider!?". How could this happen? Plus I saw the Vandin's CEO goofy yet silly smile while holding a Replica Divider!

The problem even worse than before.

PS: This description is a modified version of one of the Touhou memes.

Can you explain the bolded part to me, please?

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 13:55

Well, he's probably refering to the feud between said corporation and the Huckebein family as also to the various hints of their involvement in the developing of Replica Dividers(all rumors got finally cleared with that last scene from Ch. 20).

The conspiration part came from the wild theory that Vandin Corp. is secretly working with Caledfwich Techniques or even the possibility that CW is just a facade and the two companies are one and the same. According to this theory they're attempting to manipulate the scenario between the menace of the Eclipse and the TSAB reaction by creating the menace(EC Drivers and Dividers) and selling the solution(AEC Equipement, Raptors). I wonder if financial profit is their only goal, if that's the case they will be the first truly greedy villains of the franchise and thus making them perfectly ok to be stompped by heroes and anti-villains alike.

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 14:03

You could say this is some sort of feud between blue collar crime and white collar crime. Which the blue collar represents the Huckebein itself, while the white collar represents Vandin.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 14:07

You could say this is some sort of feud between blue collar crime and white collar crime. Which the blue collar represents the Huckebein itself, while the white collar represents Vandin.

Yup, the Huckebein aren't exactly "good people" fighting for love and justice but what Vandin Corp. is doing is against their interests so they must pay.

biodude711

2011-12-02, 14:10

Yup, the Huckebein aren't exactly "good people" fighting for love and justice but what Vandin Corp. is doing is against their interests so they must pay.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Vandin Corp. is being funded by some shadowy faction of the TSAB.

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 14:16

Yup, the Huckebein aren't exactly "good people" fighting for love and justice but what Vandin Corp. is doing is against their interests so they must pay.

Also, instead of heroic acts and clean their "good name", the Huckebeins get rid with the other EC infectees like Dego and Marty that you say, so there can be only one, true Eclipse infectees. Especially for Vandin, I myself feel there is a catch when Fate and Cinque did an interview with one of the company's employees.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 14:21

I wouldn't be surprised if the Vandin Corp. is being funded by some shadowy faction of the TSAB.

I hope not, all that ruse of "TSAB is an evil organization" already got old, it will be too easy to put the blame on them.

Also, instead of heroic acts and clean their "good name", the Huckebeins get rid with the other EC infectees like Dego and Marty that you say, so there can be only one, true Eclipse infectees.

Indeed, it sucks when your criminal organization is blamed for activities you didn't planned, it's bad for the bussiness. So yeah, more likely Veyron and Arnage are sent to deal with Dego an Marty because they're giving the Huckebein bad reputation, not in the sense of being bad guys, because they're already are, but more on the sense of making them to look like Wild Cards. I'm pretty sure Curren wants people in the mercenary market to see them as serious and reliable hired-guns rather than a bunch of savage animals that go spreading massacre from town-to-town without reason.

Koveras Alvane

2011-12-02, 14:23

I wouldn't be surprised if the Vandin Corp. is being funded by some shadowy faction of the TSAB.

I am still waiting for the Belkan Conspiracy, a.k.a. the Grey Men, to reveal themselves after all these seasons pulling strings from the shadows.

00-Raiser

2011-12-02, 14:31

...why is the Force NEXT picture of Fate fighting Cypha? After a chapter about Signum doing shit again, you don't even depict her with the person she's gonna fight soon?

Because that way they can show off two new designs. Ya know, the entire purpose of Force NEXT.

biodude711

2011-12-02, 14:32

I hope not, all that ruse of "TSAB is an evil organization" already got old, it will be too easy to put the blame on them.

I didn't mean the TSAB as a whole, but some sinister splinter faction that's funding the Vandin Corp. (ie Organization of the Zodiac from Gundam Wing)

I am still waiting for the Belkan Conspiracy, a.k.a. the Grey Men, to reveal themselves after all these seasons pulling strings from the shadows.

That would be...interesting...if that was the case.

LostSome

2011-12-02, 14:33

I am still waiting for the Belkan Conspiracy, a.k.a. the Grey Men, to reveal themselves after all these seasons pulling strings from the shadows.

Is that like the Xel`Naga from Starcraft ?:heh:

Anyway, thinking that there`s a problem with TSAB... Whatever it`s corruption, infiltration or psychic links(Go Curren !:rolleyes:) is definitely understandable.
Seriously, Vandin is laughing in TSAB`s face.
They are late every single time and even Fate and Teana`s undercover job to get a Divider was a failure somehow.:uhoh:

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 14:39

Indeed, it sucks when your criminal organization is blamed for activities you didn't planned, it's bad for the bussiness. So yeah, more likely Veyron and Arnage are sent to deal with Dego an Marty because they're giving the Huckebein bad reputation, not in the sense of being bad guys, because they're already are, but more on the sense of making them to look like Wild Cards. I'm pretty sure Curren wants people in the mercenary market to see them as serious and reliable hired-guns rather than a bunch of savage animals that go spreading massacre from town-to-town without reason.

Well, as the proverb in my country. First: Slander is more cruel than murder. Second, you could say those two Eclipse infectees like the pot calling the kettle. And speaking about reliable hired guns, I guess you're right. You could say they are like a bunch of motorcycle gang members without a clear future, rather than a bunch of a group of wild animals.

Is that like the Xel`Naga from Starcraft ?:heh:

Anyway, thinking that there`s a problem with TSAB... Whatever it`s corruption, infiltration or psychic links(Go Curren !:rolleyes:) is definitely understandable.
Seriously, Vandin is laughing in TSAB`s face.
They are late every single time and even Fate and Teana`s undercover job to get a Divider was a failure somehow.:uhoh:

Probably they shut up about Replica Divider and other Eclipse infectees. They are also reluctant to tell the Fate and Cinque during the interview, why the Huckebein rebellious to them.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 14:39

Because that way they can show off two new designs. Ya know, the entire purpose of Force NEXT.

You mean fleshing more of the previous desings, don't you think? Both, Bardiche 5th Gen and Divider-944 were already featured in NEXT design images.

Koveras Alvane

2011-12-02, 14:41

Is that like the Xel`Naga from Starcraft ?:heh:

Maybe. I don't know whether Tsuzuki did that on purpose, but every season so far has had one or two loose ends that could all be tied into a single conspiracy theory, even if this wasn't intended (kinda like the Cadmus arc in JLU).

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 14:45

You mean fleshing more of the previous desings, don't you think? Both, Bardiche 5th Gen and Divider-944 were already featured in NEXT design images.

But now there is no new scans about NEXT this month, right?

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 14:47

Well, as the proverb in my country. First: Slander is more cruel than murder. Second, you could say those two Eclipse infectees like the pot calling the kettle. And speaking about reliable hired guns, I guess you're right. You could say they are like a bunch of motorcycle gang members without a clear future, rather than a bunch of a group of wild animals.

Yup, to be fair Curren's character makes a god job in giving some dimension and structure to the Huckebein family as antagonists. Before her appearance most of us only saw them as bloodthirsty beasts. Now we're slowly learning how their organization works and more about their interests, Curren is definetly a more sophisticated person than her peers(sans Fortis, arguably) but also her sole appearance on the stage served to calm down the other Hucks and influence them to behave more composed, that's one of Curren's strongest traits: charisma.

But now there is no new scans about NEXT this month, right?

Uhm... we're precisely talking about this month's NEXT design that depicts Fate with 5th Gen Bardiche, the kicker is that she's fighting Cypha in the image. Don't worry, i'm pretty sure when a better quality version came out it will be posted on the image thread.

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 15:02

As long as the author would provide character development for them, that's for sure. Who knows, we could find the reason for all the other Huckebein members join with Curren.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 15:06

As long as the author would provide character development for them, that's for sure. Who knows, we could find the reason for all the other Huckebein members join with Curren.

Remembering at how Cypha claimed to be a "founding member" of the Huckebein Family i at least expect some backstory of her and Curren.

Kuze

2011-12-02, 15:07

The internet is a ocean, and we're the islands where the "flotsam" washes up on. The pictures just so happen to fall in our lap!

(vote against SOPA for the love of everything)

Anyways, I missed something: How Isis wakes up Touma and Lily.

:D

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 15:08

^I guess that scene was covered up for the sake of decency xD!

(By the way, what's that SOPA thing?)

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 15:24

Remembering at how Cypha claimed to be a "founding member" of the Huckebein Family i at least expect some backstory of her and Curren.

If she is one of the founders, surely there's a reason for joining for the other members. Maybe I can be described as follows:

- Arnage: friendship
- Cypha: just because
- DeVille: order
- Veyron: pleasure
- Stella: parent
- Fortis: pride
- Curren: troll and cloud cuckoo landing

Well, at least something like that.

^I guess that scene was covered up for the sake of decency xD!

(By the way, what's that SOPA thing?)

Yeah, I like that too.

And well, the SOPA aka Internet Censorship are the laws that apply throughout the United States to protect IP from piracy. This rules is deemed to have snatching the freedom of Internet users in the U.S. If you live there, and if ever truly realized, then you're finished. Your freedom for interneting is taken out.

LostSome

2011-12-02, 15:37

Curren, Veyron and Cypha are the founding members.
Can`t say about Deville...
Fortis, Arnage are probably too young. Stella is too young for sure, the Hucks were around seven years ago.:heh:

As for why they got together... The bomb in the head of the others is a pretty good reason not to go with Vandin for me.:uhoh:
Sorry, but I think that their backstory is probably strongly link to the other bad guys and as we get to know them, we`ll learn more on the Hucks.

itanshi1

2011-12-02, 15:37

^I guess that scene was covered up for the sake of decency xD!

(By the way, what's that SOPA thing?)

I updated my signature

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 15:44

If she is one of the founders, surely there's a reason for joining for the other members. Maybe I can be described as follows:

- Arnage: friendship
- Cypha: just because
- DeVille: order
- Veyron: pleasure
- Stella: parent
- Fortis: pride
- Curren: troll and cloud cuckoo landing

Well, at least something like that.

Sounds plausible, i just wonder how Curren and Cypha meet, we know how dastardly and smugging Cypha is but she's pretty calm and respectful towards her leader, maybe Curren manage to get under Cypha's skin at some during the former's early days as an EC infected?

Fortis seems to be in it because of his twisted idealism(remember how upset he was by Tohma's descision of saving other people instead of himself) and yeah he seems to be very pridefull about it.

Veyron seems similar to Cypha in that he seems to be attached to Curren to some degree, also the mistery of his absent original Divider comes to mind.

I¡'m pretty sure Arnage was a lonely girl angsty about her infection until the Huckebein family took her and give Arnage a warm home and a new purpouse in her new life. She's the only one that so far sounds honestly convinced of what she's saying about being a family and wanting to help Tohma.

Deville seems to be the more simple of the team, he maybe is pragmatic enough to accept his new destiny without making a fuss about it and saw convenient to hang out with Curren's gang.

I pretty much agree with you in that Stella probably is the most recent member and adopted Curren as her mommy and thus being willing to follow her commands. Her last name "Irvine" is another mistery, tough. I guess we will get a shock when someone else with the famili name "Irvine" entres the scene or is mentioned.

And well, the SOPA aka Internet Censorship are the laws that apply throughout the United States to protect IP from piracy. This rules is deemed to have snatching the freedom of Internet users in the U.S. If you live there, and if ever truly realized, then you're finished. Your freedom for interneting is taken out.

Oh yeah, i don't live in the U.S. but i wish luck to you guys since that law can also bring consequences to other countries if approved.

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 15:45

See that signature? That's how the rules effects.

NOTE: Sorry for my Out of Topic posting, but this is the truth

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 15:58

Here's the controversial Force NEXT of this month, sorry for the quality xDU

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/112/fatecyphanext.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/fatecyphanext.jpg/)

Rising Dragon

2011-12-02, 16:03

... I fail to see how that's controversial, unless you're using your insane troll logic again.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 16:05

... I fail to see how that's controversial, unless you're using your insane troll logic again.

I'm not the only one this time, i wouldn't be calling this image controversial if i where the only one talking about it. Read the previous page Rising-kun xD

Rising Dragon

2011-12-02, 16:08

Justin_Brett

2011-12-02, 16:09

Because that way they can show off two new designs. Ya know, the entire purpose of Force NEXT.

Both of them are hardly new at this point. Hell, Cypha and Arnage have both been in it twice before, so it's not like that's a rule.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 16:11

So yes, insane troll logic. That's not controversial. The current series of NEXT imagery depict scenes, rather than equipment specs. So what? Nothing states that Signum absolutely must fight Cypha again.

As painful as that statement was, i agree with you. I'm sticking to the pluasibility of that image being just a depiction of the battle in Ch. 9. The only thing stating that Signum must fight Cypha again are the hearts of some of her fans who wish to see her being badass again. The mock battle with Tohma helps a little but right now she only managed to be cool, not Badass.

Signum escaped her doom and become an "ok" character now, hope she manage to be an awesome one again.

LostSome

2011-12-02, 16:25

Seriously, after her little fight with Thoma...
If I were Hayate, I would tell Signum to take a breather from active duty for a while.

00-Raiser

2011-12-02, 19:00

Both of them are hardly new at this point. Hell, Cypha and Arnage have both been in it twice before, so it's not like that's a rule.

I meant new relatively new. The fact is that they're both Force Next designs and the purpose of Force Next is to show off Force Next designs. Signum has yet to get a Force Next design so why would they show her fighting Cypha?

Justin_Brett

2011-12-02, 19:31

Yeah, why would they spoil-

Oh, wait.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 20:05

Yeah, why would they spoil-

Oh, wait.

At least one thing is for sure.

Laevatein was left intact. Which means Signum will mostly probably put her hands on one of those hideous AEC weapons XP

C'mon Shari! there's still time, 5th Gen, 5th GEN!

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-02, 20:51

As long as her life doesn't drift away to the sky, Levantine will never be destroyed.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-02, 20:56

As long as her life doesn't drift away to the sky, Levantine will never be destroyed.

I think that phrase work better backwards:

"As long as Laevatein isn't destroyed, her life won't drift away to the sky"

As long as she still have her trusty sword on her hands Signum is a fearsome adversary but if you manage to get rid of her weapon she suddenly becomes an easy prey. I guess that's what happens when you suffer from Crippling Overspecialization.

Seriously, after her little fight with Thoma...
If I were Hayate, I would tell Signum to take a breather from active duty for a while.

Another possibility. Contrary to the expectations, Laevatein didn't receive any kind of upgrade and the AEC equipement already showed to be inferior to Armed Devices in terms of power and durability, plus we also have the possibility of Cypha being defeated by someone who's not Signum. Considering all of that, there's really very little usefull stuff for her to do in this season so it wouldn't be a surprise if Hayate retire her from the mission effectively putting her on a bus.

Signum's only real connection with this story is her feud with Cypha, aside of that she didn't have anything significant to do here.

EDIT: Thinking about it, it will be at least an interesting side story or at least an opening for possible fanfictions depicting what happens with her during that time. Maybe following what Koveras said, Signum take advantage of her vacations to go on a training trip in order to sharpening her sword, body and spirit in order to return prepared to withstand the evolution of warfare without losing her escence.

Keroko

2011-12-03, 07:43

I think that phrase work better backwards:

"As long as Laevatein isn't destroyed, her life won't drift away to the sky"

As long as she still have her trusty sword on her hands Signum is a fearsome adversary but if you manage to get rid of her weapon she suddenly becomes an easy prey. I guess that's what happens when you suffer from Crippling Overspecialization.

Almost any member of the main cast will be "crippled" when their devices are taken away. It's the downside of having a tool you rely on to perform optimally, your performance suffers when it's taken away. That does not, however, make having a tool inherently bad. Take away airplanes and the modern human infrastructure collapses on a near global range, does that make using planes bad?

LoweGear

2011-12-03, 07:52

Which means Yuuno, Arf and Zafira are the greatest of the cast for not using any devices. Period. :D

*RUNS*

Koveras Alvane

2011-12-03, 10:30

Which means Yuuno, Arf and Zafira are the greatest of the cast for not using any devices. Period. :D

*RUNS*

You forgot Lindy. ;)

Akiyoshi

2011-12-03, 11:55

Almost any member of the main cast will be "crippled" when their devices are taken away. It's the downside of having a tool you rely on to perform optimally, your performance suffers when it's taken away. That does not, however, make having a tool inherently bad. Take away airplanes and the modern human infrastructure collapses on a near global range, does that make using planes bad?

I'll try to be objective with my own very subjective comment. Some mages have displayed some flexibility to work even without their devices, Nanoha herself is a great example, Crossfire Shoot, Restrict Lock, Knuckle Buster and Strike Smasher can be used without any assistance of Raising Heart which is a pretty decent advantage. But being fair to Signum and other less flexible fighters, this can be attributed more to Nanoha's modern combat style. Her formation as a fighter is modeles after soldiers and fighter jets and thus trained to have options available at every moment. The Wolkenritter's route is modeled after Knights who have the advantage of sharpening thier ability with one weapon to the edge but lack the flexibility of a soldier to take options in case they get disarmed. We can say that, historically, Knights tend to fall on having a Crippling Overspecialization on a frequent basis.

You forgot Lindy. ;)

The Asura counts as a Humongous Device for her maybe? Stella has the Esquad Huckebein after all xD!

Keroko

2011-12-03, 12:28

A device doesn't need to be transformed in order to provide support. So far we've seen Raising Heart, Teo, Cris and Rio's device which name I forgot all supporting their mages without transforming themselves. Also recall that the one time we've seen Nanoha without her device, she couldn't even so much as fly.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-03, 13:19

^ At absolutely minimum she can use Divine Shooter and Round shield like we've seen at the beginning of A's.

Also, i remember Nanoha calling Raising Heart to absolutely not interfere when she proceeds to cold Teana's head, during that segment she used Crossfire Shoot, Restrict Lock AND Floater.

Keroko

2011-12-03, 13:26

Raising Heart was still very much present when Vita attacked. And she never told Raising Heart not to interfere, just to release staff mode. Two hands to block both Teana and Subaru and all.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-03, 13:37

In her very first scene during A's Nanoha was practicing Divine Shooter with Rasing Heart reduced only to watch her performance and keeping count of the times she hit the can xD

Keroko

2011-12-03, 15:59

LostSome

2011-12-03, 17:08

I agree with Keroko.
Nanoha`s not at her best without RH...
How many of her big fights could she had won alone ?

I dare anyone to give Signum a normal sword and say to her that she`s useless with Leavatein.:eyespin:

Speaking about that, I`ll give a rare thump up to Erio for doing well without Strada against Deville. Or without Caro for that matter.;)

Akiyoshi

2011-12-03, 21:30

True. I'm not saying she's completely powerless without Raising Heart, but just like everyone who we constantly see using a device, we have to keep in mind that without it she's not as powerful as we keep seeing her. It's not just something only Signum suffers.

You're right on that one, still it could be awesome if FORCE Signum were as efficient with her fists as Old Iron's Signum in his "swords & Shields" fic, he amped up her capabilites to ludicrous levels, and i love it xD!

Speaking about that, I`ll give a rare thump up to Erio for doing well without Strada against Deville. Or without Caro for that matter.;)

Signum too, it's one of the reasons of why i can't keeping claiming that she sucks as a fighter, while not as awesome or badass as before, she still do a surprisingly good job in her first after-hospital fight considering she's using her classic equipement and who her opponent is.

For now she's on the comfort zone of the "averagely good" fighters, i guess only Tsuzuki can tell if she will manage to do something awe-inspiring in the future.

Arcc

2011-12-04, 06:34

Oh hey everybody, I'm back from Africa. How goeth the eternal circular Huckbein arguments?

Looks like I have two more Force installments to catch up on. I'll join the fun when I get back from that.

malekith

2011-12-04, 07:59

am i the only one who thinks stella is gonna be adoted into the takamachi family
both incharecter design and the whole controler of a ship thing theyre wat too similar

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-04, 09:25

Oh hey everybody, I'm back from Africa. How goeth the eternal circular Huckbein arguments?

Looks like I have two more Force installments to catch up on. I'll join the fun when I get back from that.

Nope. There is only Thoma and his friends are undergoing training with Nanoha and friends. In addition, there is a blue-collar crime versus white-collar crime feud in the Force.

1. Thoma and Lily sleep together in one bed.

2. All SDS6 member discussing about feud between Vandin Corporation and Huckebein.

3. A secret message from Curren send to Thoma (man, I hate her trolling attitudes, even she more worse than Izaya)

4. The trio are currently undergoing training with Rein Zwei, and of course, Agito and Signum are already good health.

5. If you are a Vivio fans, good news. She's currently watching the mock battle between the trio and the veterans. In addition, she wears a same outfit that resembles Einhart's ones. As well her plushy Device Sacred Heart. She wanted to join, but she is prohibited by her mom.

6. In the end of chapter, the CEO of Vandin handles a Divider, with a silly yet sinister smile. I wonder if that Divider probably a replica or that Veyron seek, but for sure I've smelled a feud between blue-collar crime and white-collar crime.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-04, 13:47

6. In the end of chapter, the CEO of Vandin handles a Divider, with a silly yet sinister smile. I wonder if that Divider probably a replica or that Veyron seek, but for sure I've smelled a feud between blue-collar crime and white-collar crime.

That could be an interesting plotline, i wonder how dangerous Veyron will be if she recovers his original Divider and get his hands on a Reactor, Fifth is a good candidate to fill that spot. Veyron is a pretty hardcore fighter, he anhilated a reacted EC Driver by himself with standard EC equipement.

LostSome

2011-12-04, 15:44

Justin_Brett

2011-12-04, 15:47

Veyron's the only Huck that's actually an underdog in practice, so I can understand rooting for him.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-04, 16:08

Veyron didn`t even had his divider, just his claw.
Unless I`m mistaken, it`s not even standart EC, just a weapon.
First he told Fortis that he doesn`t need some Reactor and than proof it like a beast.
Got to love Veyron`s manliness. Now all he needs is to cut a train car in half with a chain saw !:eyespin:

Sorry, Aki, but I kind of like Veyron like he is now. Screw the Dividers/reactors, Veyron doesn`t need shiny new toys !:heh:

Whoah! it's ok pal, i inderstand your point. But just to clarify. Veyron's weapon IS a divider, divider-928 to be specific. The thing is that 928 is a borrowed divider form an unknow EC Driver, we don't know what happened with Veyron's original divider(of if he even had an original divder at all). I also find Veyron relly cool because he's one of the few males in the franchise actually doing some serious stuff in years, he manage to be astonishingly efficient despite being arguably weaker than his comrades(i see him like kind of an evil Chrono) which also foreshadows how dangerous he can become with the proper EC equipement.

Veyron's the only Huck that's actually an underdog in practice, so I can understand rooting for him.

Yep, plus is the only Huckebein who has participated in a truly decent fight so far, Curren was pretty badass in her introduction but that not changed the fact that it felt like a lame asspull.

Curiously Arnage is more or less kind of a worf-ish character so far. despite having an imbued reactor and various modes she seems to be a bit less effective than the other Huckebeins. I guess we still need to see her facing the correct adversary to show some of her own awesomeness. Facing Isis who posses "projectile scrambling" powers was a bit unfair for her, on the other hand, she's already aware of said powers so i guess she will change into Plasma Cannon mode from the very beginning of the fight.

Yasanagi

2011-12-04, 16:14

I guess the reason Veyron's disliked by the others is because he's not a game breaker like they are?

Akiyoshi

2011-12-04, 16:15

I guess the reason Veyron's disliked by the others is because he's not a game breaker like they are?

Or because he manage to keep up with them despite not being one?

LostSome

2011-12-04, 16:20

I know that he is using a divider, but he didn`t used it to beat that extra.
But I guess I know now where I got that disliking of Thoma`s dependance of his reactor/divider from.

Veyron seems to be a lone wolf...
I have yet to see him getting into anything serious against the other Hulks except Arnage`s annoying attitude.:uhoh:

Arcc

2011-12-04, 16:21

Nope. There is only Thoma and his friends are undergoing training with Nanoha and friends. In addition, there is a blue-collar crime versus white-collar crime feud in the Force.

1. Thoma and Lily sleep together in one bed.

2. All SDS6 member discussing about feud between Vandin Corporation and Huckebein.

3. A secret message from Curren send to Thoma (man, I hate her trolling attitudes, even she more worse than Izaya)

4. The trio are currently undergoing training with Rein Zwei, and of course, Agito and Signum are already good health.

5. If you are a Vivio fans, good news. She's currently watching the mock battle between the trio and the veterans. In addition, she wears a same outfit that resembles Einhart's ones. As well her plushy Device Sacred Heart. She wanted to join, but she is prohibited by her mom.

6. In the end of chapter, the CEO of Vandin handles a Divider, with a silly yet sinister smile. I wonder if that Divider probably a replica or that Veyron seek, but for sure I've smelled a feud between blue-collar crime and white-collar crime.

Ah, no. I meant chapter 16 and 17. I've been out of the country for three months.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-04, 16:28

I know that he is using a divider, but he didn`t used it to beat that extra.

He tried at first but was overwhelmed by Dego's reacted form before using his Claw Garb, rips his arm and blows his head xD.

But I guess I know now where I got that disliking of Thoma`s dependance of his reactor/divider from.

Yep, it's a bit uncomfortably to know that most of Tohma's importance as a fighter came from his viral powers and equipement rather than himself. All of the Huckebein suffer from that weak character trait but Veyron and Curren manage to overcome it a little because both showed to not be entirely dependant on their haxx and weapons to deliver some serious ass-kicking.

Veyron seems to be a lone wolf...
I have yet to see him getting into anything serious against the other Hulks except Arnage`s annoying attitude.:uhoh:

That's what i don't catch of his profile. According to that he doesen't get along well with the other Hucks but nobody in the family seems to have problems with him, Stella seems to be happy when he returned from that church and Arnage even call him Vey-nii. And his personality seems to be more grumpy than spiteful really.

LostSome

2011-12-04, 16:43

That's what i don't catch of his profile. According to that he doesen't get along well with the other Hucks but nobody in the family seems to have problems with him, Stella seems to be happy when he returned from that church and Arnage even call him Vey-nii. And his personality seems to be more grumpy than spiteful really.

Could be the translation for his profile was a little too hard.
Grumpy sounds about right and his interest in learning more about Thoma`s past sounded geneous to me.
At least someone other than me is interested about the incident...:heh:

Akiyoshi

2011-12-04, 16:47

Well, Veyron apparently wants to know more abot Tohma's incident in order to clean his name or at least his concsience. because tohma blamehis for what happened and Veyron two or three times mentioned that the guy who did that actually resembles him which is why Tohma thinked he was the culprit. So yeah, probably Veyron's mistery is tied to Tohma's past and to the real duo behind the doom of Thoma's hometown.

LostSome

2011-12-04, 17:03

Wait ! Did someone on this board said that a Hulk could have a conscience ?! Did someone throw me into a 4D Pocket ?!:joke:

Well, since TSAB seems to have closed that case... I`m hoping for some much needed answers from my man Veyron.

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-05, 00:49

Veyron might also be an eyewitness. Probably he actually wanted to tell the Thoma what really happened, but he still insisted, didn't want to believe.

There is a possibility that Veyron was a atoner. Maybe.

LostSome

2011-12-05, 01:00

The thing is Veyron doesn`t remember ever attacking that kind of place before.
The worst, he said that he never worked together with Curren before...
Maybe the woman was Curren, but something hits Veyron on the head very hard if he does not remember ever working with Curren before and that was indeed him.

Thoma did apologized to Veyron for thinking he was the one that attacked the mine, so that`s that.:confused:

Akiyoshi

2011-12-05, 04:20

Also there's the fact that Veyron actually lied to Tohma on their first encounter by telling him he was the culprit behind that incident, if he feels guilty about that why did he made such claim?

vic-vic

2011-12-05, 05:25

Uh, Veyron never admit he was the culprit. He just taunt Thoma.

00-Raiser

2011-12-05, 07:12

Yeah, he was all "What if I was?", not "Yeah, it was me." No lying took place.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-05, 09:40

Ok, thanks, that changes the context somewhat, still is curious that he decided to taunt the boy with that, is he secretly testing Tohma? Maybe he was trying to atone a bit for his indirect involvement in that incident by letting Tohma think he's the responsible and thus allowing the boy to pull out the anger acumulated inside him?

Key Board

2011-12-05, 09:44

I noticed Sieglinde's magic circle is Belka

and since she apparently has some pedigree, she's probably old belka style

Akiyoshi

2011-12-05, 09:47

Interesting, but i guess that will be better on the ViVid thread.

Unless it turns out that Sieglinde is Curren!

....dun dun DUUUUUN!

Skane

2011-12-05, 09:48

I noticed Sieglinde's magic circle is Belka

and since she apparently has some pedigree, she's probably old belka style
Still crossing my fingers that she and Miura will become battle sisters.

Please!

Akiyoshi

2011-12-05, 09:56

Still crossing my fingers that she and Miura will become battle sisters.

Please!

*conversation taken to the Vivid Thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3888196#post3888196)*

Still no news about Ch. 20's dialogue?

Key Board

2011-12-05, 10:02

sorry about that guys. wrong topic

00-Raiser

2011-12-05, 10:47

Akiyoshi

2011-12-05, 11:03

No, he's just a dick.

That's what i thinked about him initially. Then i witnessed his interactions with other people and then i see him fighting Dego and snapping when he badmouthed Fifth one too many times. His corncern about Tohma's case is also depicted which brings more cuestioning about his suppossed "dickish" attitude.

Sure, he's a jerk, but unlike beings like Quattro or Cypha he apparently have reasons for it and isn't a douche just for the hell of it.

00-Raiser

2011-12-05, 11:21

I think with his first meeting with Thoma, he was undoubtedly being a dick just for the hell of it. He had never met Thoma before and thus would have no reason to act any particular way around him.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-05, 11:23

Except when he mentioned that incident, Veyron didn't displayed that in front of the kid for obvious reasons. But has since spent around 70% of his pagetime wondering about it.

Maybe he's just pissed about being blames for the crimes of some other punk with a Divider, maybe is something else, but so far we don't know.

00-Raiser

2011-12-05, 11:25

No doubt he has an interest in what Thoma said, but that was after their first encounter.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-05, 11:37

Yup, Thoma apologizing to him before going suicidal even after how Veyron treated the boy also helps xD.

Justin_Brett

2011-12-05, 11:54

Raiser actually attributing negative characteristics to one of the Hucks? Say it ain't so.

00-Raiser

2011-12-05, 12:14

I've said as much before. Just because I don't think they're the offspring of Sauron and Jeffrey Dhalmer doesn't mean I think they're saints.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-05, 12:23

I hope Veyron flesh out as a more complete character and fortunately there are good indicator pointing for the possibility of that.

Fortunately, Signum was somewhat rescued from mediocreness but she's still on the thin line between being shafted or put on a bus. So i need something more reliable to hold onto for now.

WarpObscura

2011-12-05, 21:13

Could the Eclipse cause selective amnesia? That might be why Veyron can't remember being at Tohma's village, if it was him at all.

Rising Dragon

2011-12-05, 21:20

The possibility's been raised before.

LostSome

2011-12-05, 23:11

Could the Eclipse cause selective amnesia? That might be why Veyron can't remember being at Tohma's village, if it was him at all.

Amnesia ? Please, no... That overused plot device !
We already had Lily... And Thoma that can`t seem to remember anything before the mine...:uhoh:

itanshi1

2011-12-05, 23:23

ah the over used "'over used plot device' complaint" device :D

well those involved are all weapons, I imagine mental tempering is probable

Kuze

2011-12-05, 23:28

There are also mind wipes, but like with selective amnesia, the question becomes "why?" and "why?"

Which is to say, why is it important that they forget, and why is it alright to mind rape people while you're at it?

And it's been done before in A's (in a roundabout way, sure), but nobody's village got blown up for that one.

If Veyron is doing this because something is suspicious about the whole affair, well, okay, it might be the not!lighter hearted version of Kanon where Akiko still has the car accident, and then another accident in the ambulance, and then you know, Blues Brothers baby. Or on the other hand it could be lik - that's my cue to stop talking.

itanshi1

2011-12-05, 23:30

Do we have name for the CEO (as it were) for Cadlwch yet? I heard there was a pen twirling guy, but scanlators are slow :/

LostSome

2011-12-05, 23:34

ah the over used "'over used plot device' complaint" device :D

well those involved are all weapons, I imagine mental tempering is probable

I guess that true.
After Marky`s little bomb, selective anmesia sounds pretty nice actually.:heh:
Curren`s mental attack at work. Is there anything I can`t see Curren capable of doing ?:uhoh:

That guy was Vaiden`s CEO, I think, not CW.

Kuze

2011-12-05, 23:36

Nah, The Man Mightier Than The Sword is for Vandin. The friendly neighborhood PTA looking after the Eclipse. His name is totally E.S. Crowe, I bet on it.

Caledfwich CEO is sadly still unknown.

(it's Suzuka. I totally bet on that too)

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-06, 00:14

Curren`s mental attack at work. Is there anything I can`t see Curren capable of doing ?:uhoh:

There's nothing can I see from her, except her trolling, fooling, and cloud cuckoo landing attitude. Maybe...

Akiyoshi

2011-12-06, 00:43

Curren`s mental attack at work. Is there anything I can`t see Curren capable of doing ?:uhoh:

Curren's mental attack?

I wonder if she can use the Genrou Mao Ken.

Curren wearing Pope's sanctuary robes will look kind of cool xD

Justin_Brett

2011-12-06, 01:01

The mental attack of somehow making you think she's really smart when she's barely done anything yet.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-06, 01:26

The mental attack of somehow making you think she's really smart when she's barely done anything yet.

Or to fool you into thinking she's a lame posser when in reality she's pulling all the strings behind the curtains xD

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-06, 01:38

Two words: Problem, Hayate? *cue epic troll face*

Keroko

2011-12-06, 04:57

Could the Eclipse cause selective amnesia? That might be why Veyron can't remember being at Tohma's village, if it was him at all.

Or he could just not remember. If you travel a lot, you don't remember every little village you visit.

Thoma still remembers because that day was the worst day in his life. For Veyron, it was Tuesday.

Skane

2011-12-06, 05:12

Or he could just not remember. If you travel a lot, you don't remember every little village you visit.

Thoma still remembers because that day was the worst day in his life. For Veyron, it was Tuesday.
Obligatory source video
BAHi9dDxDpc
Cheers.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-06, 05:21

Or he could just not remember. If you travel a lot, you don't remember every little village you visit.

That's pretty much Fortis and Cypha's way to approach the issue.

Thoma still remembers because that day was the worst day in his life. For Veyron, it was Tuesday.

Unless Tohma remered him of it, the it becomes an important day again.

EDIT: Page claimed for Signum (http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?groupid=383), the errand knight xD!

Keroko

2011-12-06, 05:58

Unless Tohma remered him of it, the it becomes an important day again.

Random destroyed village amongst the unknown amounts he visits and/or destroys himself as a mercenary? Still Tuesday.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-06, 06:08

Random destroyed village amongst the unknown amounts he visits and/or destroys himself as a mercenary? Still Tuesday.

Then why Vayron didn't talk about any other doomed town aside of this? He surely likes to talk about that Tuesday xD

Keroko

2011-12-06, 06:24

Point taken.

Zero Hurricane

2011-12-06, 06:44

Maybe he quite absentminded about other doomed places.

Justin_Brett

2011-12-06, 10:29

Two words: Problem, Hayate? *cue epic troll face*

Good at trolling =/= good at long-term planning.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-06, 11:23

Good at trolling =/= good at long-term planning.

To be fair Curren didn't even need to be the best long-term strategist, she only needs to be better than Hayate. So far the Huckebein leader is doing well in that departement xD!

Justin_Brett

2011-12-06, 12:48

What the fuck are you arguing? That stabbing Hayate in the back means you're smarter than her?

Akiyoshi

2011-12-06, 12:53

What the fuck are you arguing? That stabbing Hayate in the back means you're smarter than her?

We still didn't se Hayate getting out of Curren's gambit yet and unless she's ready to put her career and the entire Section Six in risk she must think her next move very carefully, Curren put her on a tight spot.

Justin_Brett

2011-12-06, 12:58

Not really. I said earlier why it wasn't a good plan, and all the ways it could turn out not to work. None of them were really hard to figure out.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-06, 13:00

Not really. I said earlier why it wasn't a good plan, and all the ways it could turn out not to work. None of them were really hard to figure out.

For us readers, it's pancake, after all we have tons of data Hayate and her unit lacks. Now will see if Hayate or someone else manage to outwitt Curren.

Teana! You can do it!

Justin_Brett

2011-12-06, 13:01

Some of them should be obvious in-universe too.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-06, 13:03

Some of them should be obvious in-universe too.

I know but i think you're talking at least about Ruroni Kenshin levels of smarts here. Section Six's brains department is more or less at 80's G.I. JOE levels xD

00-Raiser

2011-12-06, 13:10

All Curren's done so far is getting Hayate tied up in lots of red tape. It's a major failing of any bureaucracy and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to invoke that.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-06, 13:14

Well, even if that don't talk much about Curren's "genius" it talks about her "timing", she saw an opportunity and took it xD

Being an opportunist also require some level of smarts xD

Justin_Brett

2011-12-06, 14:52

I know but i think you're talking at least about Ruroni Kenshin levels of smarts here. Section Six's brains department is more or less at 80's G.I. JOE levels xD

If the heroes have to be dumb for it to work, can she still be called a good schemer?

malekith

2011-12-06, 16:48

If the heroes have to be dumb for it to work, can she still be called a good schemer?

thats the whole point shes been called a good schemer by everyone but hasnt actually shown any of it yet untill she starts showing lelouche lvl wits im not convinced

i nearly fell for shigans and dc enchantments b4 i rewatched the series and saw that hayate hasnt done crap in the cannon universe yet and actually prove her worth as a commander all shes done is send the aces out to do the job for her and not shown any actual battle tactics out

you cant exactly call sending a hot-head/pridefull person like signum to patrol with inferior gear against people which are known to be hax anti-mage killers and have it turn out well.

you could say its signums fault for not retreating but seeing as hayate knows her troops personalities very well its the commanders fault in such a situation

she didnt do crap in strikers either except shoot a couple drones down and act important (you could say she catched vita but seeing as she went and got herself trapped afterwards kinda balances that out)

p.s i really do love the h x v files and like your version of hayate way better but she hasnt really done anything in cannon to completly like tsuzukis version that hasnt been only said and not actually shown atleast yet

page claim for shigan and deathcurse for convincing me with there story telling to give hayate the benifit of the doubt

itanshi1

2011-12-07, 01:10

I like her in force, gonna be gravy to work with (writing wise)

Akiyoshi

2011-12-07, 11:51

Apparently Hayate's capacity for commanding/strategy will remaind in the shadows now that Teana is in charge, i wonder if Tsuzuki is too cautious about what to do with Hayate in fear of ruining the character and that's why he constantly shafts her.

itanshi1

2011-12-07, 15:09

Heh, Teana in charge is neat as well.

00-Raiser

2011-12-07, 15:53

Teana's only in charge because Hayate is under investigation (again). I doubt they'll make any moves until Hayate is in the clear again.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-07, 16:34

It will be a shame, tough. Teana has gathered good fame for being a good strategist(and, unlike Hayate, she have some real feats supporting that) having her in charge it will be a good excuse to let her being awesome in her own exclusive way xD.

00-Raiser

2011-12-07, 16:38

Hayate doesn't have to make strategies. She's the commander: she has people to do that for her.

Keroko

2011-12-07, 17:01

Nice. So the only thing Hayate can do, she can't do anymore because the other characters can do that better. Why not just put her on ice entirely?

Seriously though, I never really liked the Hayate in command thing to begin with since it put her off the battlefield and into a role not all that different from Yuuno.

Yeah. The shaft role.

But in command, at least she could pull some crazy command scheme and become a bad-ass commander. That's a cool role too. If actually executed properly. Which Force does not. I mean, last chapter she was praised for letting herself get tied up in red tape. Really? I'm no military genius, but since when was that an accomplishment worthy of praise?

So yeah, count me as someone who hopes that Hayate gets out on the field again, because Tsuzuki cannot write a commander Hayate. Let her get back to the field with the other two aces, where she can blast the crap out of enemies.

Akiyoshi

2011-12-07, 17:17

So yeah, count me as someone who hopes that Hayate gets out on the field again, because Tsuzuki cannot write a commander Hayate. Let her get back to the field with the other two aces, where she can blast the crap out of enemies.

Keroko for president! xD

No, seriously, he's right. Sure, we know Hayate is a glass cannon and a Squishy Wizard but insted on keeping reminding us he's unsuited for direct combat why Tsuzuki don't focus on her strenghes instead? Tons of times were told the Yagami-ke is a powerfull force to be reckoned with when they fight togheter becuase they have amazing temwork and cover each other weaknesses, allowing Hayate to focus on being a super awesome bombardement mage.

I wish that at least just fdor once we get to see the Yagami family being that awesome super team instead of that just happening off screen.