Penguin Drum - General Discussion [Archive] - Page 2

ttdestroy

2011-07-09, 06:32

I don't know about Triple_R but in my case it's the dynamic of the big brother who clearly desires his younger sister and go as far as taking advantage of her who makes me uncomfortable. And this is only episode 1...

An older person (guy or girl, this isn't the point) stealing a kiss to someone who is asleep knowing that he/she would most certainly disagree to the act if he/she was conscious doesn't attract any sympathy from me.
Even if the two weren't related by blood, I'd disagree with Kanba's acts. But them being siblings only further my feeling that he betrayed her in that scene. Which I hope he will come to regret later...

His hot sister, mysteriously comes back to life and is cured of an incurable disease, penguins which understand human speech and that only his family can see are helping them out with chores, said sister is then controlled by another entity, strips naked and pulls his(soul?) from his body. I'd say he's pretty effed up already and the last thing on his mind is: "Hey maybe I shouldn't kiss her." OK, OK it's definitely not OK to do what he did, in fact I vomited in my mouth just now thinking about me and my sis in this scenario, but he's not in a normal situation.
Yeah I def liked the style of this show it's very different, I'm excited to see where it goes.

fertygo

2011-07-09, 06:40

I don't know about Triple_R but in my case it's the dynamic of the big brother who clearly desires his younger sister and go as far as taking advantage of her who makes me uncomfortable. And this is only episode 1...
.

:D

I'm sorry but I'm only can grinning like that emoticon reading this part. :heh: :p

Damn, we gonna have such a hugeeeeee backlash regarding this show.

Nina.Wolken

2011-07-09, 06:49

His hot sister, mysteriously comes back to life and is cured of an incurable disease, penguins which understand human speech and that only his family can see are helping them out with chores, said sister is then controlled by another entity, strips naked and pulls his(soul?) from his body. I'd say he's pretty effed up already and the last thing on his mind is: "Hey maybe I shouldn't kiss her." OK, OK it's definitely not OK to do what he did, in fact I vomited in my mouth just now thinking about my sis in this scenario, but he's not in a normal situation.

None of it making it more acceptable. Understandable maybe. He has his reasons, but frankly it doesn't change anything to what he did. He has the choice to deal with his feelings and solve the matter with Himari now. If he does that, well then ok. If he keeps lying and being a creep, pretty sure he will end in my list of "Most hated characters ever", right next to Akio :rolleyes:.

Damn, we gonna have such a hugeeeeee backlash regarding this show.

Well, I'm ready to be trolled hard by Ikuhara. I insanely loved Utena but it was also the serie who gave me the most violent emotions I ever experienced in front of my tv : hope, despair, joy, dawwww, wth and rage. Oh the rage. Akio, Utena, Anthy. A nightmare for my nerves.
So well, I'm prepared for whatever comes ^^'.

Lumir

2011-07-09, 07:00

OH MY GOSH! I dont even... What just happend! There just no WORDS!

ONLY IN JAPAN!

I mean this is so different yet i find myself so in to it that I couldnt even finish the episode before having to come here and just say something!

I will deffo be fallowing this, its new, unique, and interesting! OMG the penguins the story its all ridiculously AWESOME!

SURVIVAL STRATEGY!

risingstar3110

2011-07-09, 07:50

My line of thought in order
The younger sister who recovered from death? A MIRACLE.
Hmm... did I see a penguin who hand him the card, the cabbage, and the umbrela. Wtf another one even was sliding cucumber and spray insecticide to kill that cockroach
SURVIVAL STRATEGY
Wtf did i just watch? Btw, isn't that girl (Penguin Queen?)looks a bit like a certain Venus girl?
I don't know what is her purpose. But i approve what she did, step down in style and slowly strip her clothes
Hey, a**hole watch where you are kissing your sister...

Mixed feeling really. Currently in the threshold between "Drop it NOW" and "Next episode PLOX". Is it just a normal shoujo anime. Or did i just watch something extraordinary?

NaweG

2011-07-09, 08:17

liro

2011-07-09, 08:40

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/915/1310205380153.jpg (http://img691.imageshack.us/i/1310205380153.jpg/)

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/2462/1310206496597.jpg (http://img829.imageshack.us/i/1310206496597.jpg/)

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8025/1310203441332.jpg (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/1310203441332.jpg/)

http://moca-news.net/article/20110707/201107071854a/01/

http://www.movic.jp/index.php?ctrl=sheet&code=15133

ttdestroy

2011-07-09, 08:46

Did Ikuhara just make penguins cool, cuz I think he pulled it off.

sa547

2011-07-09, 08:47

The OP song really caught me, and love her breathy singing... :) Sounds familiar... YEAH! :D Same girl from Denpa Onna.

SeaDoor

2011-07-09, 09:21

Well, that first episode was unexpected. Me like.

Funny, after having watched it, I kept feeling vibes from another series but I
just couldn't put my finger on it. Finally decided that this episode kind of
reminded me of the first episode of Abenobashi how it starts with bad news,
something significant happens then chaos erupts.

Hope I didn't jinx things...:uhoh:

sapphire-pyro

2011-07-09, 09:42

First episode was really fantastic (http://daydream-sanctuary.blogspot.com/2011/07/mawaru-penguindrum-episode-1.html) *_* Totally hooked to it now xD

I'm not really into penguins... much less on stuff toys or plushies.... BUT DO WANT:
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8025/1310203441332.jpg

Tiberium Wolf

2011-07-09, 10:06

Lazy animators. Couldn't even find time to draw the public. :(

orion

2011-07-09, 10:30

An older person (guy or girl, this isn't the point) stealing a kiss to someone who is asleep knowing that he/she would most certainly disagree to the act if he/she was conscious doesn't attract any sympathy from me.
Even if the two weren't related by blood, I'd disagree with Kanba's acts. But them being siblings only further my feeling that he betrayed her in that scene. Which I hope he will come to regret later...

You're too serious. Her possessed self was nude in front of him and very literally stole his heart in that scene before the kiss. I knew he was going to do something after that.

The girl had Jack and the Beanstalk and Alice in Wonderland on her night table.

It's actually considered romantic for a girl to be waken up by her prince. It will prob be handled positively (treated as consensual) in the next episode. Her possessed self chose him for a reason.

Besides you don't know if they are blood siblings. Even if they were, the couple in Koi Kaze did more than just a kiss.

Nina.Wolken

2011-07-09, 10:52

I need one of those penguin plushies ;__; But I'll be cautious before to throw my money at them. For all we know, they could well turn out to be some kind of not so nice creatures. We already know they have great powers, next is to see how they use it...

Also, was rewatching episode 1 and notice that particular ending sequence :

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/6759/ggmawarupenguindrum01b8.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/ggmawarupenguindrum01b8.jpg/) This seems to be your usual akai ito (red string of fate), connecting Himari to ... Who exactly? It's certainly passing by someone's hand (one of her brother probably), then Ringo, but it is not shown where it ends. Anyway, if the point of the serie is to go against fate so whoever is at the end of that string is up to Himari to decide for.

So we have that string of fate appearing briefly in the Ed sequence and in the episode itself? We have that huge red line going all around Tokyo. Marunouchi line. Most of us noticed how important that line was in the serie already and the fact Ikuhara chose the red metro line of Tokyo certainly isn't a coincidence.

Maybe not the first time this correlation is brought up but will certainly enjoy seeing if Ikuhara goes along with this idea and how.

Edit: Besides you don't know if they are blood siblings. Even if they were, the couple in Koi Kaze did more than just a kiss.

I decided not to watch Koi Kaze for this exact reason. Also, if they are not blood related, why the hell is Kanba so tormented? That would be a cheap trick to pull on behalf of Ikuhara. He is more daring than that.
Also, the fact that a possessed girl take your heart (are we sure that was it?) in a parallel world which could well be just a dream doesn't give you any right to steal a kiss from her.

Midonin

2011-07-09, 10:55

Did Ikuhara just make penguins cool
Penguins are always cool. Especially when they have hoverboards.

Tom Bombadil

2011-07-09, 11:06

Did Ikuhara just make penguins cool, cuz I think he pulled it off.

I guess you have not seen the Penguin in Evangelion.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-09, 11:10

Also, the fact that a possessed girl take your heart (are we sure that was it?) in a parallel world which could well be just a dream doesn't give you any right to steal a kiss from her.

That depends... It isn't about whether he had any rights to steal the kiss, but whether he is still under control of his mental facilities and as such, could he truly be blamed.

Something was done to him. Something non-trivial. It might be too early to assume he had any choice in the matter.

Ziziphus

2011-07-09, 11:36

*jumps on the what the hell did I just watch and why is it so awesome?! bandwagon* :p

Some stray observations:

Who among the three siblings covered their house with all that cutesy girly stuff? I don't think it's Kanba, and Himari is ill most of the time, so that leaves only Shouma. Hmm...
So are the three penguins representatives of the three siblings or what? No.1 = Kanba; no. 2 = Shouma; no.3 = Himari. And of course no.3 is the lead. :p
The two girls with Himari in the ED look like the two mascots that appeared on the train. We can also see them in their house in the form of an ornament.
Is that a Utena cameo I see in the OP? :heh:
Someone needs to add a 'penguin' tag to this thread.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/915/1310205380153.jpg (http://img691.imageshack.us/i/1310205380153.jpg/)

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/2462/1310206496597.jpg (http://img829.imageshack.us/i/1310206496597.jpg/)

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8025/1310203441332.jpg (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/1310203441332.jpg/)

http://moca-news.net/article/20110707/201107071854a/01/

http://www.movic.jp/index.php?ctrl=sheet&code=15133

Damn penguins! I can't stop laughing whenever I see those bastards. :heh: Now where can I get one?

Flower

2011-07-09, 11:42

I did not know what to expect going into this one - only knew it was going to be strange. And I was right. But for all that I kinda liked it. Go figure.

Anyway - a sick girl being possessed (and healed - is the mask a "parasite" of some sort?) by a spirit in a mask so that something known as a "penguin drum" (some kind of bizarre magic item?) can be found and then the possessed girl doing some kind of "initiation ritual" on her brothers (in an alternate dream world?) which seemed to involve something close to yanking out the heart of one of her brothers at least.... Oh yeah - I forgot to mention the "spirit attendant" penguins ... and the list goes on.

Just ... weird.

But if you take out the dimension of the penguins the storyline is a good one and actually reminds me of a type of storyline adventure one would see in an RPG.

So, all in all - I am gonna keep watching this one. :D

Slick_rick

2011-07-09, 11:44

Excellent first episode. Everything I could have hoped for. I thought the episode was pretty straightforward at least for Ikuhara.

The two boys talking about Campanella and the other passengers is a reference to night on the galactic railroad. It seems he might have drawn a lot of inspiration from that story for this one. I can also see the train being a metaphor for fate, predetermined stops until the final destination(death).

I have no problem with him kissing her in the sleep as long as it as that's where it ended. I'm having bad flashbacks to Utena on that one. I'm also wondering what that phone call he had at the aquarium was about. Something tells me its wasn't on the up and up.

Loved the transformation scene, op, and Ed. Really looking forward to see some of the other characters, they all look interesting especially loving the Juri lookalike.

Ziziphus

2011-07-09, 12:06

The two boys talking about Campanella and the other passengers is a reference to night on the galactic railroad. It seems he might have drawn a lot of inspiration from that story for this one. I can also see the train being a metaphor for fate, predetermined stops until the final destination(death).

Haven't read that title myself, I don't really understand their talk and how it relates to apples (any clarification about that would be greatly appreciated by me btw), but the train metaphor seems logical and may be what Ikuhara had in mind. But what I really need to know is how everything links back to... penguins at the end. :heh:

And YAY for 'penguin' tag! :D

Slick_rick

2011-07-09, 12:10

Haven't read that title myself, I don't really understand their talk and how it relates to apples (any clarification about that would be greatly appreciated by me btw), but the train metaphor seems logical and may be what Ikuhara had in mind. But what I really need to know is how everything links back to... penguins at the end. :heh:

And YAY for 'penguin' tag! :D

Basically three of the passengers we meet on the train had died on probably the Titanic or just a ship that hit an iceberg. The young man had tried to save the two children but was unable to and drowned with them. A farmer was on the train with them would also died and had a bunch of apples and gave it to them as a reward or way of consoling them.

Nina.Wolken

2011-07-09, 12:13

Anyway - a sick girl being possessed (and healed - is the mask a "parasite" of some sort?) by a spirit in a mask [...]

Suddenly reminding me of Alien9 http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8436/aliennineepisode33.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/aliennineepisode33.jpg/) :uhoh:

zero7090

2011-07-09, 12:14

BakaOnna

2011-07-09, 12:16

Awesome first episode. Probably my favorite of the season. It's also the only one that I rewatched. I've also been reading around and found that the lines the little boys were speaking off about how "the apple is the center of the universe" is a reference from Night On the Galactic Railroad. Also, reading through this informative entry (http://penguindrum.livejournal.com/6282.html#cutid1), which I also noticed the 2nd time watching, there's tons of penguins to be found in photographs and drawings/sketches before they even appeared.

Also, this blog (http://animekritik.wordpress.com/2011/07/08/mawaru-penguin-drum-01-idealism/) also provide some rather insightful analysis of the train imagery used throughout the episode.

Finally, to those complaining about the incest at the end, I'm pretty sure they'll be some sort of explanation for it. The brother only started acting strangely after she pull, what was it, his heart out of his chest. Maybe the whole "Survival Strategy" ended up changing his mind slightly? It would also explain his line before he kissed her, which sounded along the lines of "I know this is wrong and we are programmed not to do this". I mean, besides the morality issue with incest, the other problem with it is it causes genetic defects and mutations in the offspring, which would lower the its survival. Maybe the "Survival" part is referring to evolutionary/animal survival, where those that are able to produce viable offspring survive while those that don't, well, die.

Dann of Thursday

2011-07-09, 12:28

Well, that was a bit odd.

I was pretty much just going with things and despite being strange, most of it at least seemed to make some sense. Then Himari shouts "SURVIVAL STRATEGY" and everything got incredibly weird(er).

Good first episode I'd say though. Very colorful in terms of animation and I like the style of things such as the signs, the people outside of speaking characters, and other such things. Their house was also quite imaginative as well I thought.

Curious as to whether Kanba's comments about it punishment are meant to hint towards some dark secret in their past, perhaps relating to their parents. Going by Shouma's reaction, I'd definitely consider it a possibility.

Is there any particular reason that Ringo was shedding all the clothes in some sort of reverse of the typical transformation you usually see with this sort of thing?

I'll admit the kiss and potential for incest creeped me out. This seems be a topic Ikuhara likes to explore so I'd assume it will probably become a large part of the story. Though if Kanba has somehow been brainwashed into this by whatever Ringo did to him, that's just as creepy. Not too sure though. Perhaps all she did was remove his inhibitions on the matter.

In any case, interested to see where this is going. Good batch of shows this season. Haven't had this many I plan to keep track of in quite some time.

Arabesque

2011-07-09, 13:05

Yikes the thread moved on quicker than I thought :uhoh: but still no duckroll?
I thought of Madoka Magica too, in the sense of this being a show of big talents that could take on a quasi-religious following. But the more I thought of it the less I think it holds, not just for the reasons that you suggest but because MM was a true melding of several giants in the industry. MPD does have Lily Hoshino's character designs but really, this is a one-man show. It's Ikuhara's mad vision and it's on him whether it succeeds or crashes like a meteor with all the fires of hell.

I think Blood-C is actually a closer comparison to MM in some ways. Some big hitters in the industry trying to meld styles that don't immediately seem 100% compatible.I do think that the comparison would be more accurate with Blood-C now that you mentioned that one, though it's still a bit safer since CLAMP already has an exciting fan base who'd get their stuff regardless, and Blood is an already established property.

But any way, I do agree with you that this is Ikuhara's baby. He is going to raise it to be whatever he wants it to be, so at the moment we are getting his vision more than anything.
Spoiler most people likely missed it, including me:

http://i.imgur.com/xSe4A.jpgAnd the dissection begins :)-Let's react a bit more to people reviving right in front of you
-The voice actors... Especially the girl's. When she isn't raising her voice, there isn't much of a problem, but when she begins to talk louder... Talk about a straight line...-They did react to it, but the show sort of glosses over it other than the two being dumbfounded and happy that their sister came back to life. Heck, even the doctor had a similar reaction and just said it was a miracle. I mean, putting myself in their place, if my sister all of the sudden came back to life, I would be more grateful than scared that she came back at all.

-I agree that the voice acting isn't all that great. Or rather, the voices don't really fit. That's the one aspect of the show I'd didn't like so far, but I hope that I get used to it.So would we all :). Too bad it seems that no pictures have ever made it to the Internet.Yeah, it's strange. You'd figure you'd find that picture readily available. The most fruity picture I could find of him was that panther leather pants pic, and the recent ones don't seem as extravagant anymore :heh:I particularly like the eyecatch where it seems that we've progressed to the next stop. It's so intuitive and effective I'm not sure why nobody has done it before.For starters, it's really hard to pull of. I mean the closest thing I had seen for unusual transitions was with SHAFT (whom I feel we'll be mentioning a lot here for better or for worse) and even then ... I also think since the train station being an integral part of the plot would mean that this sort of style fits perfectly as well.I love that scene with the friend. We get introduced to another character, we learn quite a bit about her, and all of this in a 15-second sequence where she barely says a word. Instead, it's all told through clever direction, blocking and shot composition.

In a lot of other shows, the background characters are given cursory body shapes and blobs of color to flesh out crowd scenes, but here Ikuhara decided that there was no need to draw them as real people at all! Making them all look like figures on street signs just works all the better. I also really love the way that hands are animated - they're just so expressive and thematically resonant. This episode alone puts to rest any doubts that Utena was as good as it was because of Ikuhara himself. Sure the rest of the staff was great on that show, but it's pretty obvious who the driving force was. No disagreement here.Having just read through the last several pages, I'm a little surprised I didn't see more comments on just how much the style of this seemed to reflect a lot of Shinbo ala Bakemonogatari - particularly the use of signs and white space. Regardless of the source of this one man force of nature behind this series, the style seemed a bit more Shaft than Brain Base.

Then again, I was feeling by the end of this that Shaft was cleverly doing the Madoka second season they hinted at, but changing Sayaka and Mami into guys this time...I can say with certainty that this wont be related to Madoka at all. As far as it goes, SHAFT has no influence here.

Also, the reason why you don't see a lot of comments about this being a reflection of Shinbo is that aside from Ikuhara preceding him (so it would be more appropriate to say that Bakemonogatari is a reflection of Utena, though that still wouldn't be right), the two are very very different in how they each compose and create their shows, as well as the style being unique to each one.

The way Shinbo approaches his scenes is by making sure that the viewer maintains full attention on the visual aspect of the episode. To him, being stylish is far more important than following the script. He likes to have everything focus on certain details either to trick the viewer or hint at future developments.

Ikuhara, on the other hand, is a whole lot more symbolic. Sure, Shinbo likes using symbolism in his work, but Ikuhara creates his shows with it in mind from the ground up. Every frame is referencing something, every still has a secret, and the more a show unfolds the more things become apparent to us, not only the more obvious things (the apple) but the subtle, hidden and obscure as well.

Also, with Ikuhara, the visuals are used more as a driving force for the plot (or for the characters) so it's more often to see that what you seen here will have a far more profound meaning as time goes on and we get to learn more about the cast (in comparison, Shinbo is different in regard, where he likes to use the characters and plot as a means to do more creative visuals, which ends up at times hurting the stories (not often though))

Both men I enjoy their work greatly, but if I were to pick favorites, I'd go with Ikuhara since his style is as close as an anime got to being artistic innovative.

gsilver

2011-07-09, 13:20

I need one of those penguin plushies ;__; But I'll be cautious before to throw my money at them. For all we know, they could well turn out to be some kind of not so nice creatures.

That, in no way, diminishes my interest in a Kyubey plushie.

Arabesque

2011-07-09, 13:36

That, in no way, diminishes my interest in a Kyubey plushie.The only thing Kyubey related I want to ever have is the Kyubey marshmallows, so I could watch as the little critter boils and melts in my hot chocolate.

Penguin plushies FTW!

kk2extreme

2011-07-09, 14:11

WTF did I just watch?

Reckoner

2011-07-09, 14:16

WTF did I just watch?

Something fabulous.

Shiroth

2011-07-09, 15:09

Yikes the thread moved on quicker than I thought :uhoh: but still no duckroll?
I know :(. I'd love to hear his thoughts on the first episode.

Forsaken_Infinity

2011-07-09, 15:30

Regarding that Kiss attempt at the end... I don't view of it as a betrayal of Himari by Kanba. It felt to me a natural action instead.

First off, nothing's wrong with Incest as a plot point. Whether or not you condone with Incest IRL is a non-issue and shouldn't stop you from at the very least watching fiction with Incest as an element. If you didn't watch Koi Kaze because you couldn't handle the topic, it's only your loss. FYI, Koi Kaze doesn't condone or condemn incest. It simply gives you as mature and as objective a treatment of the subject as you will find in anime. Sure the age difference had me cringing thanks to my personal biases but it remains one of the most mature anime I have ever watched.

Besides, it was quite clear that both the brothers were in love with Himari but Kanba was the one who had something done to him by the Penguin Empress or whatever that is. I do think he was still in conscious control of himself but something was still done to him, metaphorically or otherwise. Perhaps that scene was just a metaphor for his uneasiness and limits being broken or perhaps it was literal.

Doesn't matter either way. Because sneaking a kiss on his sleeping sister is how someone troubled by his love for his sister would go about it ._. The scene and the abrupt ending was all very well done on the director's part. It had just the right build up. Absolutely wonderful.

I do wonder what Sho's reaction will be like though... given that I got some major Yandere vibes from him :s

Oh and if I got the preview right... Next episode will be from Himari's POV and she was saying something along the lines of how she loves the concept of fate and believes in it? ._. That's a delicious contrast from her nii-chan.

Either way, this is going to be one hell of a story and I can't wait for the next episode.

Reckoner

2011-07-09, 15:47

Not that I particularly raised any issue with the end of the episode, but perhaps I can say a little for those I know who are bothered by it...

First of all, I understand that many people are wary of this subject because for one thing, it's been a relatively common anime trope lately. Not only that, but this subject is not often treated with the respect and maturity that this sort of subject needs to be presentable and respectful.

People don't like seeing something which is treated by taboo by most as condoned or even lauded. Not simply that they think it's OK in real life, but that this subject persists in anime and gives way to more acceptance of something that they really think is unacceptable.

Personally, I don't raise any issue with it at the end of the episode because this show does give the respect and maturity the subject deserves, SO FAR. It's not trying to condone or laud anything, and really the first episode was fantastic.

Slick_rick

2011-07-09, 16:03

Well, lets be honest Ikuhara's past works have done anything but laud incest. In Utena one such relationship was the epitome of sickening and the rest were all shown as dysfunctional on many levels.

I'd don't know where he'll take the relationships yet but for the most part I doubt it'll go into some sort of idealized relationship between the siblings. Seems the opposite of what I expect of him. He does dysfunctional too well.

Kazu-kun

2011-07-09, 16:12

I do wonder what Sho's reaction will be like though... given that I got some major Yandere vibes from him :s

How so? I didn't pick anything like that from him myself. In fact, he seemed more level headed and thoughtful than Kanba to me. He also seemed less self absorbed, and a little more empathic towards Himari. For instance, the "Himari-day" was his idea.

Regarding the incest, I see it more like a plot development regarding the issue of genetics, including the "survival strategies" thing, than a possible romance. Besides, if you pay attention to the scene at the aquarium, when Kanba received that call from one of his girls, there was no reaction whatsoever from Himari, no apparent jealousy or anything like that, she was smiling and her expression didn't falter one bit. That tells me that she doesn't love his brother romantically.

Now, if Kanba's feelings are a result of whatever the penguin girl did to him, then it's all part of the sacrifice (payment) in exchange for her sister's life. Since she is a representation of fate, what she took from Kanba is, in a way, the possibilities of his future. This ties with "survival strategies", since the probabilities of genetic defects and mutations in the offspring due to inbreeding would lower the chances of survival, effectively taking a toll on your future, your fate.

If that's the case, the incest here is not romantic fluff, but rather a plot element used to explore the dynamics between genetics and fate.

ZODDGUTS

2011-07-09, 17:23

http://i.imgur.com/JloSF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0Zgi9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/u0EOm.jpg

Never doubt in Ikuhara. :P

Sorrel

2011-07-09, 17:32

How so? I didn't pick anything like that from him myself. In fact, he seemed more level headed and thoughtful than Kanba to me. He also seemed less self absorbed, and a little more empathic towards Himari. For instance, the "Himari-day" was his idea.

I don't see the yandere either but I wouldn't call Kanba self-absorbed in the least. Aside from offering up his organs, he did seem to try taking on the role of a responsible big brother by considering all the things they had to take care of when Himari first died.

If anything, I really liked how the first episode shied away from shoehorning the brothers into Red Oni Blue Oni (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedOniBlueOni) roles.

http://i.imgur.com/0Zgi9.jpg
Oh, hay Chuchu. :D

Nina.Wolken

2011-07-09, 17:35

Now, if Kanba's feelings are a result of whatever Ringo did to him, then it's all part of the sacrifice (payment) in exchange for her sister's life.

Very interesting idea, didn't consider what "Penguin Queen" did to him could have play on his feelings. I had directly assumed Kanda always had this attraction toward his sister.
What bother me is why Shou didn't pay anything since he wished at least as strongly as his brother, for all we know, to save Himawari...

Shiroth

2011-07-09, 18:31

Never doubt in Ikuhara. :P
The Sailor Moon reference is amazing. I wouldn't say no to an Utena one appearing in the future! Maybe Chu-Chu. :p

ZODDGUTS

2011-07-09, 18:43

But she already appears in the opening!

DonQuigleone

2011-07-09, 18:46

This is some pretty funky stuff in a first episode, I'm liking.

Regarding the incest thing, I think that was caused by the Penguin Queen (whatever her name is), as in the weird cyberspace place she can be seen taking Sho's heart after initiating survival strategy.

What I'm wondering about is the conversation the 2 kids were having about the apple being a gateway between two worlds or something, anyone know what that's about?

Also, the 3 girls that passed by Kanda & Friend may also end out being significant.

Anyway, I'll be watching this.

Kazu-kun

2011-07-09, 18:51

I don't see the yandere either but I wouldn't call Kanba self-absorbed in the least. Aside from offering up his organs, he did seem to try taking on the role of a responsible big brother by considering all the things they had to take care of when Himari first died.

I didn't think that he was trying to be responsible there. For me, it seemed more like a facade. Moreover, when he said "it was her fate" it seemed like rather then coping, he was giving up or something.

Anyway, I said he was a bit self-absorbed because he seemed a bit too desperate to get her sister's attention, but in contrast, wasn't paying her enough attention to pick up on her moods and stuff. Shouma, on the other hand, seemed to be more aware of how she was feeling and listen to her a bit more too. After all, he's the one who proposed Himari to take a day to do whatever she wanted, which makes her really happy somehow. Also, he immediately realizes she's staring at that family at the aquarium and knows how's she's feeling about it. All in all, he's a bit more empathic towards her I think, and seems less concerned about getting her attention than Kanba is IMO.

Both are interesting character though. And since Kanba has a bigger role (or so it seems) I suppose it makes sense that he has some more personal issues to deal with than her brother.

If anything, I really liked how the first episode shied away from shoehorning the brothers into Red Oni Blue Oni (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedOniBlueOni) roles.

Actually, to me, their interaction had a bit of this trope to it.

Kaioshin Sama

2011-07-09, 19:32

Welp, this show has one critical flaw that's going to keep me from following it for now and that is that I have no idea at all where it's going or what type of show it's planning on being. I can definitely talk about what happened in the episode, but tying it together would be completely impossible.

Let's see...I can say this is yet another show this season that has a certain style about it, the other being Kamisama No Memouchou. In fact both shows have a strange female character as their hook and snappy dialogue to go with it all, but at least with that show I had an idea of what it was going to be about by the end. I can honestly say I haven't seen a show that has left me this confused as to it's intended direction in a while....I think I've made that point many times, but again I'm having trouble finding stuff to talk about that I know for a fact is relevant, but not obvious. There's no inbetween here.....

Let's see again...well the art style definitely combines aspects of animation from the modern day and from the 90's in it's character design and overall look. Ummm...there's penguins, though I'm not sure if I was supposed to laugh at them or just be confused.....seriously nothing...no hints whatsoever.

I guess I should also talk about the sequence at the end, because anything that has to do with Revolutionary Utena and Ikuhara seems to have one of these. Star Driver had one too and it was equally as flashy and got about the same reaction in sudden uncontrollable laughter when things got all fabulous and their was some sassy posing and clothes flying off. Yep....that sure was a crazy sequence.

So....yeah....I can't see myself following this actively when I have literally no idea what to expect nor can form anything at all from the first episode to take away from me, so I've got to put this on hiatus and let it develop a clear direction from here before I decide to pick it up. In the meantime Kamisama No Memochou will play the role of the stylish animation and snappy dialogue series that I follow this season.

edit: Oh yeah there was one other observation, the uniform that the one distinguishable group of schoolgirls were wearing bore a striking resemblance to Sailor Jupiter's outfit form Sailor Moon.

Suzuku

2011-07-09, 19:53

Kaioshin Sama

2011-07-09, 19:54

...that's kind of the point of watching the show in the first place.

What the fact that I don't know if I like it or not? That doesn't really sound like a huge selling point to me. :confused:

Suzuku

2011-07-09, 19:59

What the fact that I don't know if I like it or not? That doesn't really sound like a huge selling point to me. :confused:
No...watching to see what happens is the point of watching something in the first place.

Putting something on hold because you can't figure out the themes in the first episode is ridiculous and subverts the whole point of watching a show. You're basically just saying you don't want to wait weeks to find out what happens next so you're just going to wait until it develops further and spoil yourself. I wouldn't have a problem with your personal decision to do something asinine, but you're somehow levying it as criticism against the show which is just insane.

Reckoner

2011-07-09, 20:17

Arabesque

2011-07-09, 20:20

Let's see...I can say this is yet another show this season that has a certain style about it, the other being Kamisama No Memouchou.Do you mean similar style writing wise? In the set up or the premise?

No...watching to see what happens is the point of watching something in the first place.

Putting something on hold because you can't figure out the themes in the first episode is ridiculous and subverts the whole point of watching a show. You're basically just saying you don't want to wait weeks to find out what happens next so you're just going to wait until it develops further and spoil yourself. I wouldn't have a problem with your personal decision to do something asinine, but you're somehow levying it as criticism against the show which is just insane.I don't think it's asinine, especially with this sort of show. I mean some people would like to walk in cold and get to see the story unfold while they are watching it week by week, and other aren't really sure they want to spend time into something that they may or may not like. Especially when said show is intentionally vague and secretive about what it is and what it wants to do.

I mean some have already spoiled themselves with the novels, but they don't have a problem enjoying the show, at least for the clever stylistic direction/score/differences seeing the scene unfold on screen etc. It really depends on how people enjoy watching a show, either via marathoning it or following it actively.

(On the actual episode, I hadn't actually caught the Sailor Moon pose and other references. Looks like there's going to be plenty of Easter Eggs here ...)

liro

2011-07-09, 20:42

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5797/1310253986709.th.jpg (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/1310253986709.jpg/)

Utena with the penguins.

Suzuku

2011-07-09, 21:07

Do you mean similar style writing wise? In the set up or the premise?
He probably means in its presentation. You know, how they show flashbacks with the little panels and the various camera angles used for scenes. Also, the very colorful backgrounds and the way random pedestrians are animated (as little icons). That said, Memo-chou is stylish in a different way than Penguindrum imo.

I don't think it's asinine, especially with this sort of show. I mean some people would like to walk in cold and get to see the story unfold while they are watching it week by week, and other aren't really sure they want to spend time into something that they may or may not like. Especially when said show is intentionally vague and secretive about what it is and what it wants to do.

I mean some have already spoiled themselves with the novels, but they don't have a problem enjoying the show, at least for the clever stylistic direction/score/differences seeing the scene unfold on screen etc. It really depends on how people enjoy watching a show, either via marathoning it or following it actively.

(On the actual episode, I hadn't actually caught the Sailor Moon pose and other references. Looks like there's going to be plenty of Easter Eggs here ...)
Chill out dude. All he's merely saying, which perhaps could have been worded better, is that he basically doesn't know whether to commit or not to this show due to lack of avilable information about it. If he doesn't know whether he'll like it or not, why commit to something that you might dislike when you may also not have that much free time?

If he hears good things down the road about the show, which is 25 episodes so plenty of time, then it may encourage him to just watch it later. If it goes down the toilet, then he'll be better off not having started in the first place.
As I said, my problem with isn't hist decision, I don't care about his decision. My problem is that he's basically criticizing the show for being clever. He might have worded it poorly, but if he really meant that it not showing its full colors in the first episode was a "problem", then yeah...

And I hardly need to chill. Criticizing someone's logic=/=buttmad.

Kaioshin Sama

2011-07-09, 21:41

No...watching to see what happens is the point of watching something in the first place.

Putting something on hold because you can't figure out the themes in the first episode is ridiculous and subverts the whole point of watching a show. You're basically just saying you don't want to wait weeks to find out what happens next so you're just going to wait until it develops further and spoil yourself. I wouldn't have a problem with your personal decision to do something asinine, but you're somehow levying it as criticism against the show which is just insane.

Actually I'm putting it on hold because my watching schedule as of this season is already pretty tight. I've already signed up for Sacred Seven and Kamisama No Memochou and have Steins;Gate and Tiger and Bunny carried over from last season as well. Plus it's a very distinct likelihood that I'm going to end up following No. 6 when I check it out tonight so that makes 5 shows. This is a lot to follow for someone like me already so a show really has to make an impression for me to want to follow it right away at this point.

In my eyes Mawaru Penguin Drum didn't do anything particularly more attention grabbing style wise than Memochou, and didn't hook me on the first episode like that show did because I still have little idea what it's about. In fact I'd say it wasn't as good a first episode in a lot of categories and wasn't so outstanding or attention grabbing versus the other shows I'm following that I'd want to add it to my current watch list. Perhaps if I had gotten to this show first.....

It's definitely not dropped if that's what people are thinking. It's on hold until such time as I can find time and reason to continue with it. It's definitely not a criticism if that's what people are thinking either. It's literally just among the reasons I won't be following it week to week.

Do you mean similar style writing wise? In the set up or the premise?

I mean in terms of shows whose main draw for me has been the way it's shot and paced. In fact I could actually argue that Kamisama was more creative overall in how it was shot to the point where it definitely added to the script and dialogue, but that's definitely a purely subjective matter.

Kankel

2011-07-09, 22:12

WTF did I ... Pffft! forget it.Nevermind
Yeah! I get the point.:heh:

Joachim

2011-07-10, 00:48

Having just read through the last several pages, I'm a little surprised I didn't see more comments on just how much the style of this seemed to reflect a lot of Shinbo ala Bakemonogatari - particularly the use of signs and white space. Regardless of the source of this one man force of nature behind this series, the style seemed a bit more Shaft than Brain Base.

Then again, I was feeling by the end of this that Shaft was cleverly doing the Madoka second season they hinted at, but changing Sayaka and Mami into guys this time...

Regardless, I agree with most folks here that I look forward to seeing if the promise of the first episode can be delivered on.

i have to say something about that shinbo style, i can never get into shinbo's randomness in bakemonogatari, i actually feel tired when watching bake due to his direction but enjoyed it nonetheless, but in here i can somewhat accept it and enjoy it ALOT, and it never once crossed my mind that this is similar to shaft's works.

Well me liking UTENA might have something to do with it, but yes for me shinbo is nothing in comparison to ikuhara's mind fuck/anime direction.

4Tran

2011-07-10, 01:41

Even if the two weren't related by blood, I'd disagree with Kanba's acts. But them being siblings only further my feeling that he betrayed her in that scene. Which I hope he will come to regret later...
Given Ikuhara's record, any surprise story elements will be exist to increase the impact of actions rather than decrease them so they are almost certainly blood siblings. It's also certain that there's going to be more than meets the eye regarding the incest - it won't work like the generic shounen romance.

Having just read through the last several pages, I'm a little surprised I didn't see more comments on just how much the style of this seemed to reflect a lot of Shinbo ala Bakemonogatari - particularly the use of signs and white space. Regardless of the source of this one man force of nature behind this series, the style seemed a bit more Shaft than Brain Base.
Most of the SHAFT-like elements in the episode feel even more like classic Ikuhara. For example, signs in Utena:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/4Tran/Utena/UtenaSigns.jpg

The two boys talking about Campanella and the other passengers is a reference to night on the galactic railroad. It seems he might have drawn a lot of inspiration from that story for this one. I can also see the train being a metaphor for fate, predetermined stops until the final destination(death).
I think (hope?) they're going to be the Greek chorus for Penguindrum.
No disagreement here.
I'd have thought that it'd be the obvious conclusion, but I do hear whispers that most of the credit should go to Enokido or other members of Be-Papas. But given their respective outputs post-Utena (with the possible exception of Nishikiori), those whispers are safely put to rest.

Ikuhara, on the other hand, is a whole lot more symbolic. Sure, Shinbo likes using symbolism in his work, but Ikuhara creates his shows with it in mind from the ground up. Every frame is referencing something, every still has a secret, and the more a show unfolds the more things become apparent to us, not only the more obvious things (the apple) but the subtle, hidden and obscure as well.
Too true. Ikuhara is constantly trying to invest every moment of his shows with meaning, sometimes with unusual visual elements, sometimes with music, sometimes with sound effects, and sometimes with simple blocking. I think that he's trying to deliver as much information as possible without going into wall-of-text mode.

For the most part, I think he's only interested in visual tricks for what those tricks will contribute to the greater whole. Of course, whether those tricks are comprehensible are another story (Stopwatch, anyone? :heh:).

The Sailor Moon reference is amazing. I wouldn't say no to an Utena one appearing in the future! Maybe Chu-Chu. :p
The Penguins are Chu-Chu. :cool:

i have to say something about that shinbo style, i can never get into shinbo's randomness in bakemonogatari, i actually feel tired when watching bake due to his direction but enjoyed it nonetheless, but in here i can somewhat accept it and enjoy it ALOT, and it never once crossed my mind that this is similar to shaft's works.

Well me liking UTENA might have something to do with it, but yes for me shinbo is nothing in comparison to ikuhara's mind fuck/anime direction.
Personally, I'm in awe of Ikuhara's work but I can't stand Shinbo anymore.

ZODDGUTS

2011-07-10, 01:48

Same, I've gotten tired of Shinbo's directing style.

sa547

2011-07-10, 01:53

My opinion: I've seen the best those two directors have mustered onto the TV screen, and at the same time rearrange my head like an organic Rubik's Cube with their eclectic visuals, so IMHO they're real very good in their own individual way, rather than comparing them like apples and oranges.

And to those afraid of witnessing a certain social taboo, I have voiced this earlier at MAL (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=304576&show=140):

What's the point of seeking new horizons if we couldn't observe, if not explore, what happens if a taboo is made manifest before our eyes? More than a century ago some works of literature we considered now as classics were then controversial, even going so far as to polarize opinion of the day. Heck, The Catcher in the Rye and Lord of the Flies, highly acclaimed now, were also eyed with suspicion at the time they were newly published.

Why fear the unknown, even if you are not directly involved and thus part of the audience? We've been hungry, seeking for something unique, a diamond in the rough, the one that stands out in a sea of fail.

Finally, the hardest question: what if you and your sister were the only ones left on the face of the planet? What would you do to survive?

That is why incest, long considered a social taboo and a grave sin in some societies, has to be explored and properly understood.

In other words, I await the next episode.

Shiroth

2011-07-10, 02:58

Oh yeah there was one other observation, the uniform that the one distinguishable group of schoolgirls were wearing bore a striking resemblance to Sailor Jupiter's outfit form Sailor Moon.
Sailor Jupiter's skirt was just a bit shorter :heh:, but yeah you're spot on with that.

The Penguins are Chu-Chu. :cool:
I can totally see that happening. Heck the penguins are probably Anthy's friends.

Personally, I'm in awe of Ikuhara's work but I can't stand Shinbo anymore.
I can't help but end up agree with this. I love Shinbo's works, though it's hard not to be against the fact that a lot of his recent works from the past two years haven't really done anything you'd expect to see from the Shinbo x Shaft combination. They've been good shows (apart from the second season of Maria+Holic, which felt very flat), though nothing compared to his past works, Moon Phase being a great example).

On the fanart side, it's certainly increasing. Now would be a good time to join pixiv for those that haven't already!

applejuice

2011-07-10, 05:04

Same, I've gotten tired of Shinbo's directing style.

That is impossible.

Shiroth

2011-07-10, 05:42

That is impossible.
Sorry, but it's not. I believe i gave a valid reason as to why i feel that way.

Solace

2011-07-10, 08:18

Personally, I'm in awe of Ikuhara's work but I can't stand Shinbo anymore.

The problem with both directors is that they've garnered such a reputation that discussions like this are dominated by comparisons and references to previous works and to each other.....and not so much about the work itself.

So I'll have to agree with sa547 on this.

Anyway, this was an interesting first episode. I say interesting because so much happened and yet nothing really happened, with a side of LSD. Certainly there are some intriguing plot hints, but really what dominated my mind the most was penguins. All I could think of was the scene from the first episode of Avatar: The Last Airbender when Aang went absolutely nuts upon seeing a penguin and was desperate to ride on one like a sled. :heh:

The "magical" sequence at the end had me scratching my head. I'm not sure what the purpose was. The credits had me wondering if there is going to be a gender bending aspect at some point (note the hair colors, note the siblings hair colors, note the colors in the show overall). Is it a coincidence that each of them gets a penguin, and that one has a bow like a girl, and that the first time you see the penguins they're in color coded cans that mirror the sibling hair colors?

Well. I guess I'm saying that this left a big enough impression that I'm left wanting to see more.

lightbringer

2011-07-10, 11:04

Came in not knowing a thing about this show, so zero expectations. Left with a mix of "awesome... but wtf did I just watch" and "is Shinbo involved somehow", something that seems to be the standard reaction going by some of the replies here. But now I see, Ikuhara huh. Makes sense. Whether they are going to explore incest or not doesn't bother me - this show looks pretty unique and will definitely be worth watching.

Guardian Enzo

2011-07-10, 11:22

klare

2011-07-10, 12:28

wow...

it started like slice of life with drama, but then Himari revived, then the penguins, then i thought they started playing the ED but it was NOT, then the kiss, then the real ED that looks like Sho and Kan became girls like Himari...

never seen Utena but have the urge to check it out

risingstar3110

2011-07-10, 13:35

Too bad that i had a policy to avoid older anime (pre-2005, around there). Otherwise i would have checked out Utena after watching this episode...

Kazu-kun

2011-07-10, 13:50

Too bad that i had a policy to avoid older anime (pre-2005, around there).

You're missing out. Some of the best anime of all times predates 2005.

At any rate, go watch the Utena movie. The animation is still great for today's standards, being a movie and all, and it's a freaking masterpiece.

Slick_rick

2011-07-10, 13:53

In some ways, the impact of the first episode reminded me of FLCL - the same kind of surpassing coolness, and the sensory overload. You weren't sure exactly what you saw, but it was powerfully interesting. Where it differs is that this show didn't get me as emotionally connected to the characters after one ep as that one did.

I don't actually see much similarity to Shinbou here, to be honest - superficially, maybe. Really, that's like comparing Brian DePalma to Alfred Hitchcock.

I'd have to agree I found almost no real similarly between the two. I was fairly shocked when I saw people comparing them. I'd assume that its just because both have a unique visual style but it really different if you pay attention to them. Shinbo would never think up a transformation scene like that much less be able to pull it off. Ikuhara focuses more on the surreal while Shinbo tries to be artsy in his approach. I'll never like Shinbo's style though I did like some of his anime and never even drew any connection between them.

Too bad that i had a policy to avoid older anime (pre-2005, around there). Otherwise i would have checked out Utena after watching this episode...

A truly pitiable policy...You don't know how much you're missing out on. Though Utena did get remastered a couples years ago for its 10th anniversary.

Shiroth

2011-07-10, 13:58

At any rate, go watch the Utena movie. The animation is still great for today's standards, being a movie and all, and it's a freaking masterpiece.
I wouldn't recommend the movie without having seen the TV series. One of the major selling points of the movie is that you need to already know who these characters are, otherwise you're totally thrown into the deep end.

Kazu-kun

2011-07-10, 14:20

I wouldn't recommend the movie without having seen the TV series. One of the major selling points of the movie is that you need to already know who these characters are, otherwise you're totally thrown into the deep end.
I kinda disagree with that. I watched it before getting into the series myself, and it was basically love at first sigh :heh: I didn't need the series to understand the movie, but then again, I am a film student.

In any case, I think that watching the series beforehand might leave you with too many preconceptions about the characters and setting, and that might hinder your enjoyment and understanding of the movie, which IMO works better as a stand-alone piece. You just need not to take what you see as face value and pay attention to the symbolism.

Just my two cents.

Shiroth

2011-07-10, 14:23

I kinda disagree with that. I watched it before getting into the series myself, and it was basically love at first sigh :heh: I didn't need the series to understand the movie, but then again, I am a film student.
I'll agree that the movie is a good way to get people to watch the TV series, but then again we have the first episode of Penguindrum doing just that :heh:. I guess the movie could be watched when keeping that in mind. I guess if the person wants to experience what else Ikuhara can do and don't want to spend that much time doing so, then the movie is the right choice.

In the normal sense, i just wouldn't recommend watching it before the TV series. That's all. :p

& then rewatch the movie a second time with audio commentary. It's a blast.

Kazu-kun

2011-07-10, 14:56

then rewatch the movie a second time with audio commentary. It's a blast.

This reminded me how much I love that Ikuhara doesn't want to explain his symbolism too much, and even makes up BS like "I did it because it looked cool" to avoid the questions. :heh:

Ikuhara doesn't want to restrict the meaning of his works to just one interpretation. That's not his goal. He wants everyone to think about the meanings by themselves. I think that kinda attitude is great, and it's a real contrast to other writers and directors who like to explain all their shit in magazine articles and such (I'm looking at you, Shinbo!).

Kirarakim

2011-07-10, 15:20

I'm confused but definitely intrigued. Probably the series of the season that I already can't wait for the next episode.

Unlike a lot of people here I am not a huge fan of Utena (please don't take out the pitchforks) although I do love parts of that series including the ending. And of course I did love how symbolism was used in Utena so more of that would be great.

But really I am just looking forward to the discussions this series will bring. I hope it holds up. I am always a little wary about being too excited about a series from the first episode.

Kaoru Chujo

2011-07-10, 15:40

The similarities with Shinbou seem obvious to me in the OP. The visual world there could be Shinbou's, with odd bits of text and graphics, some dramatic angles, lots of white space, fields of rolling balls or penguins, etc. And the song is by Yakushimaro Etsuko, who did the ED to Denpa Onna.

But the show itself is not especially Shinbou-esque, except for the fact that Ikuhara is also willing to go for weird and wonderful bits of animation, including some money-savers like the symbolic crowd. But what is most distinctive to me about Shinbou is how his best shows seem so visually and aurally rhythmic. I don't see this show as going quite so far in that direction. But both directors are clearly familiar with modern art and visually quite sophisticated and entertaining. They both seem to me to be real visual artists who sometimes let the visual side of things run away with them, lol.

Of course, one huge difference is that Ikuhara has only directed four shows, whereas Shinbou has directed close to 30. Shinbou's first was Metal Fighter Miku in 1994. Ikuhara's first was a Sailor Moon movie in 1993. Utena was 1997. Shinbou's first (?) real Shinbouesque anime (and his most Shinbouesque?) was Portrait of Petit(e) Cossette in 2004. The same year as Tsukuyomi. Shinbou seems much more of a commercial director, basically supporting an entire mainstream studio by his own efforts.

Personally, I liked Utena, but was not as taken with it as many people. I should watch it again. Maybe the movie this time. I wasn't a huge fan of the repeated trope of the fight, much as I liked the music. I do love some of Shinbou's work -- Cossette, Tsukuyomi, Bakemonogatari, Vampire Bund, Denpa Onna -- but not all of it.

Like risingstar, I am a lot more familiar with more recent shows (2004-), but there are so many great pre-2005 shows that it is a waste to avoid them all. Some are just as "modern" as more recent shows, and some are so good it doesn't matter if they don't look "modern."

Anyway, if I haven't said it before: great start. The look. The feel. The story, as far as we can see it. I might complain about the flatness of Arakawa Miho's voice as Himari, but the shouted line as the queen is very strong.

Shiroth

2011-07-10, 16:04

Are people still interested in seeing the Ikuhara cosplay? :heh:

sa547

2011-07-10, 17:48

^
Saw that pic of his and it made me crack. ROFLMAO!

wandering-dreamer

2011-07-10, 18:19

Yes! I tried googling it but the picture I found was apparently of someone else.

Shiroth

2011-07-10, 23:28

Yes! I tried googling it but the picture I found was apparently of someone else.
You asked for it. :heh:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6858/sailornagano.jpg

brocko

2011-07-10, 23:29

At first i was like:

:) This is nice

Then i was like:

:( So sudden...

Next i was like:

:heh: lolpenguins

And by end i was like:

:p, :eyespin:, :D This is delicious~ yeesss, yesss! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmm9nloN54o#t=3m56s)

Kagura89

2011-07-11, 00:30

You asked for it. :heh:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6858/sailornagano.jpgInternet for you sir!
Ikuhara is a cool guy eh, cosplaying as SailorMars and doesn't afraid of anything.:eyespin:

paper2k1

2011-07-11, 01:29

http://pds20.egloos.com/pds/201107/11/50/c0052350_4e1a8026e6226.jpg

twitpic by Mawaru Penguin Drum Original Character Designer Lily Hoshino

risingstar3110

2011-07-11, 03:50

You're missing out. Some of the best anime of all times predates 2005.

At any rate, go watch the Utena movie. The animation is still great for today's standards, being a movie and all, and it's a freaking masterpiece.

A truly pitiable policy...You don't know how much you're missing out on. Though Utena did get remastered a couples years ago for its 10th anniversary.
Awww...... D:

Should i make the exception and break my policy to check it out then? Definitely will enjoy the yuri side considering that's how i heard about Utena in the first place anyway. But would it be too shoujo? Is the directing side remarkably resemblance to Mawaru Penguin Drum?

Back to the topic, don't know much about Ikuhara to say the truth, but hope that his directing style does not include the "monster-of-the-week slaying" format in Sailor Moon

wandering-dreamer

2011-07-11, 09:09

Utena is pretty darn shojo and the yuri undertones don't start until a little bit into the series (they eventually become overtones but just warning you it doesn't start like that). But I say go for it, it's a fun show with just how strange it is.

Anyway, let the crossover pictures begin!
http://static.zerochan.net/full/44/15/660794.jpg

Shiroth

2011-07-11, 10:39

The image isn't loading wandering-dreamer. :(

Irenicus

2011-07-11, 10:52

What is this I don't even

But to be honest, I'm happily confused. Well, almost happy. The kiss was...alarming? It's sending "this is going to get dangerous" signals all over the place.

risingstar3110

2011-07-11, 10:57

The image isn't loading wandering-dreamer. :(
I will upload it on another page:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/risingstar3110/th_660794.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/risingstar3110/?action=view&current=660794.jpg)

Don't know what is it crossing over with through

@Irenicus: don't worry, man, the kiss probably will just hint at a yuri genderbendered incest romance development, nothing extraordinary with that :p

Irenicus

2011-07-11, 11:16

@Irenicus: don't worry, man, the kiss probably will just hint at a yuri genderbendered incest romance development, nothing extraordinary with that :p
But Sho got left out. And I already like him. :(

Joke aside, even if I didn't know this is Ikuhara of Utena fame, I'd still feel the same. Albeit I'm not even sure what exactly I am feeling. :heh:

It's stylish, this show, and it grips me right from the start. It moves with confidence without needing to explain much, from happiness to heartbreak to relief and happiness again, and then all of a sudden there's this amazing transformation sequence, which is somehow totally fabulous and slightly creepy. And then she tears his heart out in a strangely suggestive silhouette, and my alarm bells start going nuts. And then the kiss, and I was like, oh god, oh god, this is not good, this is not good.

...which is actually pretty amazing, 'cause I'm usually totally desensitized to anime's incestuous tendencies. Actually feeling the forbidden vibe means a lot.

wandering-dreamer

2011-07-11, 11:19

The image isn't loading wandering-dreamer. :(

Weird, I double-checked when I posted it to make sure it was loading too. Guess I'd better go back to my old standby of re-uploading everything in the future.

@risingstar: It looked like an Utena crossover to me, I'm also surprised that I can already find fanart for the series, the English-speaking fandom is generally a bit slower than the Japanese fandom and it usually takes a few weeks for the fanart to get going.

Shiroth

2011-07-11, 11:29

I'm also surprised that I can already find fanart for the series
You shouldn't be surprised. Just check pixiv, there's a lot of fanart already.

Kazu-kun

2011-07-11, 14:23

Should i make the exception and break my policy to check it out then? Definitely will enjoy the yuri side considering that's how i heard about Utena in the first place anyway. But would it be too shoujo? Is the directing side remarkably resemblance to Mawaru Penguin Drum?

Go check the Utena movie first. It has more yuri than the series, it's a bit less shoujo (although the aesthetics are still pretty shoujo) and it's also more wacky, surreal and symbolic than the series. If you like the weirder side of Penguin, go watch the Utena movie, you'll love it (or hate it, it depends :heh:)

Kanon

2011-07-11, 15:14

Too bad that i had a policy to avoid older anime (pre-2005, around there). Otherwise i would have checked out Utena after watching this episode...

Why would you impose such a horrible policy on yourself? :(

There are so many incredible anime besides Utena (which you indeed have to watch!) you're missing out on... so many... In fact, I'd say 2005 is more or less when the overall quality of anime started to decrease.

Guardian Enzo

2011-07-11, 16:06

Anybody have intelligence on Natsume, the character Horie Yui will be playing?

Slick_rick

2011-07-11, 17:51

But Sho got left out. And I already like him. :(

Joke aside, even if I didn't know this is Ikuhara of Utena fame, I'd still feel the same. Albeit I'm not even sure what exactly I am feeling. :heh:

It's stylish, this show, and it grips me right from the start. It moves with confidence without needing to explain much, from happiness to heartbreak to relief and happiness again, and then all of a sudden there's this amazing transformation sequence, which is somehow totally fabulous and slightly creepy. And then she tears his heart out in a strangely suggestive silhouette, and my alarm bells start going nuts. And then the kiss, and I was like, oh god, oh god, this is not good, this is not good.

...which is actually pretty amazing, 'cause I'm usually totally desensitized to anime's incestuous tendencies. Actually feeling the forbidden vibe means a lot.

Yea, Ikuhara does a really good job of setting the mood there. I especially like the light dimming as he leans in which gives you the sense of that forbidden mood and then the music abruptly stops and your thrown outside like the camera pulls back from what it has just seen.

There's also the added sense of betrayal by sneaking into her room while his other brother in right next door sleeping and worrying about her. Right before the kiss we see her nightstand full of fairy tails like Alice in Wonderland, Jack and the Beanstock, Hansel and Gretel, and Schneewittchen(snow white). Here's a not so noble prince stealing a kiss in the middle of the night. This really why I like Ikuhara so much.

Also I doubt we'll get much character history early or outside of the show. I expect Ikuhara to keep it as much of a mystery as he can till the end.

wandering-dreamer

2011-07-11, 18:10

Kazu-kun

2011-07-11, 18:15

Arabesque

2011-07-11, 18:48

Originally from Good Haro's blog, a character relationship chart (from the first novel I believe). If you don't want to know anything about the story in advance then look away now!She also has the prologue of the novel translated as well. DO be warned, spoliers are a plentyhttp://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w114/wandering-dreamer/anime%20stuff/penguinchart.jpgGoing by the chart info alone, we can clearly see that Kanba certainly gets ridding on more than one train (hurrr) and that Ringo seems to also have a partner Penguin around as well (she is also after the Penguindrum, and ahead apparently). Other points worth is that Natsume is using the main of Kanba's ex's for ... getting to him perhaps?

Also going by the novel

It's likely that the 8 characters who had showed up in the opening correspond to the 8 Penguins in the prologue. It's also highly likely that the Emperor Penguin (black) is Penguin Zero that Ikuhara had said was murdered before the start of the story, and that it's the one that possessed Himari to become the Princess of the Crystal, meaning the OP also showed both the 0 and the ninth owner.
Here's a little speculah of mine:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z369/kazu-kun1/1310408841970.jpg
For this you have to keep in mind the colors that symbolise the tree siblings: Kanba is red, Shouma is blue, and most people consider Himari as green. With that in mind:

Now, as you can see, #1 (Kanba's penguin) is inside a green tube, #2 (Shouma's penguin) is inside a red tube, and finally #3 (Himari's penguin) is inside a blue tube. #1 inside a green tube is logical given Kanba's obsession with her sister, but the other combinations might hint at new developments. Can it be that #3 being inside a blue tube is hinting that Himari has feelings for Shouma? And what about Shouma himself? Can it be that #2 being inside a red tube means he has a thing for his brother?

Well, Shouma is depicted as sort of feminine, and the symbolism in Himari's room hints the same. So it wouldn't be so out there if he had some non-brotherly feelings for Kanba. But if it's also true that Himari loves Shouma romantically, we'll have one of the weirdest love triangles I've ever seen in anime.My more juvenile side wants me to say ''each one wants to ride the others train'' but if we were to be serious ...

Going by the first episode Himari seems more attached to Sho moreso than Kanba, possibly because takes a more active role in here uprising (cooking her food, making promises, buying with her gifts etc.) as well as being the person who reacted the most to her passing (not that Kanba didn't, but Sho was far more emotional) One part also that during the hospital scene, note that when the twins were hugging her, she kept asking what was wrong with Sho, and why was he crying, unintentionally leaving out Kanba (which he had slowly realized during the scene as well, ending with him backing away from the two and going to get the doctor) so rather than be more romantic, maybe it's the attachment each one has to the other?

As for the selection, I took it as that Sho was the one who got ... um ... ''chosen'' in the scene for some reason. Then again, maybe it's left ambiguous to us much like how at some points in the OP the twins are blackened out so we wouldn't be able to tell who's who.

Kazu-kun

2011-07-11, 18:56

As for the selection, I took it as that Sho was the one who got ... um ... ''chosen'' in the scene for some reason. Then again, maybe it's left ambiguous to us much like how at some points in the OP the twins are blackened out so we wouldn't be able to tell who's who.

It's not really that ambiguous. The spikes at the back of Kanba's head indicate he's both, the blacked twin who falls alone at the end of the opening, and the one chosen by the penguin girl in episode 1.

I do agree, that Himari seems more attached to Sho than Kanba. Sho's more empathic towards her, more aware of her feelings, so that might be the reason.

EDIT: also, I hear the novel is narrated by Sho, not Kanba. That has to mean something (?).

Slick_rick

2011-07-11, 19:20

Here's a little speculah of mine:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z369/kazu-kun1/1310408841970.jpg

For this you have to keep in mind the colors that symbolise the tree siblings: Kanba is red, Shouma is blue, and most people consider Himari as green. With that in mind:

Now, as you can see, #1 (Kanba's penguin) is inside a green tube, #2 (Shouma's penguin) is inside a red tube, and finally #3 (Himari's penguin) is inside a blue tube. #1 inside a green tube is logical given Kanba's obsession with her sister, but the other combinations might hint at new developments. Can it be that #3 being inside a blue tube is hinting that Himari has feelings for Shouma? And what about Shouma himself? Can it be that #2 being inside a red tube means he has a thing for his brother?

Well, Shouma is depicted as sort of feminine, and the symbolism in Himari's room hints the same. So it wouldn't be so out there if he had some non-brotherly feelings for Kanba. But if it's also true that Himari loves Shouma romantically, we'll have one of the weirdest love triangles I've ever seen in anime.

Anyway, looking forwards to episode 2. I want to know what Ringo's role in all this is. And Shouma's role too, for that matter, since it seems the penguin girl selected Kanba as her (and Himari's??) "prince".

That's interesting. I think it also worth noting the purpose each can. Blue is non-burnables, red is burnables and green is recyclable trash. That might have a bit to say about the characters personalities or maybe futures.

She also has the prologue of the novel translated as well. DO be warned, spoliers are a plentyGoing by the chart info alone, we can clearly see that Kanba certainly gets ridding on more than one train (hurrr) and that Ringo seems to also have a partner Penguin around as well (she is also after the Penguindrum, and ahead apparently). Other points worth is that Natsume is using the main of Kanba's ex's for ... getting to him perhaps?

Also going by the novel

It's likely that the 8 characters who had showed up in the opening correspond to the 8 Penguins in the prologue. It's also highly likely that the Emperor Penguin (black) is Penguin Zero that Ikuhara had said was murdered before the start of the story, and that it's the one that possessed Himari to become the Princess of the Crystal, meaning the OP also showed both the 0 and the ninth owner.

I wonder though what the penguin means by coming from the destination of their fate. Seems to be future related to me but could mean anything at this point.

It's not really that ambiguous. The spikes at the back of Kanba's head indicate he's both, the blacked twin who falls alone at the end of the opening, and the one chosen by the penguin girl in episode 1.

I do agree, that Himari seems more attached to Sho than Kanba. Sho's more empathic towards her, more aware of her feelings, so that might be the reason.

EDIT: also, I hear the novel is narrated by Sho, not Kanba. That has to mean something (?).

I don't know if we'll be able to handle Kanba thoughts...:heh:

I pretty worried that Himari is still destined to die in this no matter what. I didn't actually take anything sexual when she reached inside of him but say it more of her taking some of his life to prolong Himari's. I expect that at some point that's going to come back to bite them both.

Also in the OP I've been thinking that Natsume has some form of anti-penguin weaponry. The thought seems hilarious to me for some reason.

Arabesque

2011-07-11, 19:24

It's not really that ambiguous. The spikes at the back of Kanba's head indicate he's both, the blacked twin who falls alone at the end of the opening, and the one chosen by the penguin girl in episode 1. Ah right. I checked it and it does look to be the case.

I do agree, that Himari seems more attached to Sho than Kanba. Sho's more empathic towards her, more aware of her feelings, so that might be the reason.Well, I might be going into unstable territory here, but I think that Kanba is just as aware of her feelings, but his own desires makes him uneasy when dealing with her. He seems to take a more careful approach to her since the feelings he harbors aren't ones that a brother holds for a sister.

Maybe?EDIT: also, I hear the novel is narrated by Sho, not Kanba. That has to mean something (?).I'm guessing that means the other two novels are going to be narrated by Kanba and Himari, since it's going to be 3 novels in total. Other than that though, I guess it relates to how Sho was the one who first narrated the intro to this episode (so first novel=Sho, Second=Himari, Third=Kanba perhaps?)That's interesting. I think it also worth noting the purpose each can. Blue is non-burnables, red is burnables and green is recyclable trash. That might have a bit to say about the characters personalities or maybe futures.Early predictions: Kanba=recyclable: his tendency to dumb women?

Sho=burnables: Death? His relation to Ringo (she burns out in the opening)?

Himari=non-burnables: Prolonged life?I wonder though what the penguin means by coming from the destination of their fate. Seems to be future related to me but could mean anything at this point. If the transformation scene is any indication, it seems like they are from the future. Look at the globe top and bottom, it has what looks like clocks with roman symbols.
I don't know if we'll be able to handle Kanba thoughts...:heh: I don't think we will :heh: The man thought process is going to be a pain to understand, I can bet :heh:Also in the OP I've been thinking that Natsume has some form of anti-penguin weaponry. The thought seems hilarious to me for some reason.She is the gender bender version of Rambo apparently :heh:

Kazu-kun

2011-07-11, 19:53

I pretty worried that Himari is still destined to die in this no matter what.

Well, if you think about it, the finality of death is something everyone has to learn to deal with. Considering that, making a story in which they manage to truly revive the dead is pretty worthless thematically wise. And since Ikuhara favors thematic content above anything else, I don't see how Himari could avoid her death. In fact, I don't even think she really wants to. It's the brothers who think is a good idea to go against fate. If the preview is from Himari's POV, then she doesn't really hate her fate like her brothers do.

I didn't actually take anything sexual when she reached inside of him but say it more of her taking some of his life to prolong Himari's. I expect that at some point that's going to come back to bite them both.

Oh, it was absolutely sexual, the symbolism in that whole scene is hammering that very heavily.

Well, I might be going into unstable territory here, but I think that Kanba is just as aware of her feelings, but his own desires makes him uneasy when dealing with her. He seems to take a more careful approach to her since the feelings he harbors aren't ones that a brother holds for a sister.

That's a good point. But he also seemed a bit more desperate to get Himari's attention; Sho was more collected and seemed to listen to her a bit more. Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Maybe?I'm guessing that means the other two novels are going to be narrated by Kanba and Himari, since it's going to be 3 novels in total. Other than that though, I guess it relates to how Sho was the one who first narrated the intro to this episode (so first novel=Sho, Second=Himari, Third=Kanba perhaps?)

That might be the case. Although it would be cool if the last novel was from Himari's POV. #3 is the lead after all :heh:

Early predictions: Kanba=recyclable: his tendency to dumb women? Sho=burnables: Death? His relation to Ringo (she burns out in the opening)?

Himari=non-burnables: Prolonged life?

I think that Kanba=burnables, as he's the typical hotheaded shounen-sque character. Sho=non-burnables, since he's the more collected and thoughtful of the two. Himari=recyclable, as she died and came back to life.

Slick_rick

2011-07-11, 20:14

Well, if you think about it, the finality of death is something everyone has to learn to deal with. Considering that, making a story in which they manage to truly revive the dead is pretty worthless thematically wise. And since Ikuhara favors thematic content above anything else, I don't see how Himari could avoid her death. In fact, I don't even think she really wants to. It's the brothers who think is a good idea to go against fate. If the preview is from Himari's POV, then she doesn't really hate her fate like her brothers do.

That's a good point and I kind of agree but I'm in same mind frame as the brothers. I rather see them avoid fate but I don't think its likely either.

Oh, it was absolutely sexual, the symbolism in that whole scene is hammering that very heavily.

Nah, I don't see it. Besides her being naked it doesn't seem sexual to me. Very personal, yes but the idea that she has to do something sexual to them to keep herself alive hits me as the plotline of a very bad Hentai. When she pulls the thing out of him he falls backward in obvious pain which reminds me more of the Black Rose Duelists, taking part of his power for her own.

Kazu-kun

2011-07-11, 20:29

Nah, I don't see it. Besides her being naked it doesn't seem sexual to me. Very personal, yes but the idea that she has to do something sexual to them to keep herself alive hits me as the plotline of a very bad Hentai. When she pulls the thing out of him he falls backward in obvious pain which reminds me more of the Black Rose Duelists, taking part of his power for her own.

Oh, I don't think they have to do anything sexual, at least not yet :heh:. But the imagery, the dialogue, everything in that scene has a very deliberately sexual connotation. Besides, it's not coincidence that Kanba decides to act on his feelings for Himari after that scene. Personally, I think the penguin girl took his inhibitions regarding Himari out of his body, thereby taking a toll from the possibilities if his future (healthy offsprings=future=fate). All this as a payment for Himari and has to do with the survival strategy (the instinctive strategies that animals take to unsure their survival, including reproduction!).

VinForSpi

2011-07-11, 21:58

Got a question to ask the female posters here...

Does this reminded anyone of the outer packaging of a tampon?:heh:
http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp10/VallenChaosValiant/tamponpacket.jpg

As a male I obviously have limited knowledge of this... It's just a vague recognition on my part.

Female here, that wasn't my first impression though I can see where you're coming from. I'm going to argue that the entire transformation sequence is an representation of evolution from a single celled organism to humanity. And, because evolution is all about sex, the entire thing is incredibly Freudian.

Spoiler cut for image heavy story time and shameless self promotion.

http://i.imgur.com/A6MfN.jpg

We start out with the world. Big round sphere with a clock on it. As the green pulse starts beating, it starts snowing which means the atmosphere now has water (and it can support life). We now zoom in the world.

http://i.imgur.com/LPvnG.jpg

As it continues to snow, we get the creation of the single celled organism. As the organism continues to move through time, it evolves and reproduces through cell division/mitosis/I forgot all my high school biology.

http://i.imgur.com/BAC7o.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FDPpH.jpg

Life evolves into a multiple celled organism and combines with other ones. Also get a call back Utena's Dios channeling, revolution creating, phallic thrust of life. Background's changed to pink and road signs have started to appear because life has gotten so complex you need them. Notice how everything is still going on a single, evolutionary track which also goes back to the heavy use of the metro/trains in Penguindrum so far.

http://i.imgur.com/72phL.jpg

Plants.

http://i.imgur.com/4FqPp.jpg

Animals. Interesting here that the tracks finally end...or does it?

http://i.imgur.com/3uMUD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aZCKi.jpg

Sexing animals leads to humans. The penis is now the track. THE END?

I further argue it's not. I've written this huge speculation tying in fate, apples, and transportation together which can be found here (http://penguindrum.livejournal.com/7909.html) for the interested.

But yeah, someone pointed me to your comment on lj, Vallen, and after looking through the rest of the thread and your question wasn't answered, I figured the least I could do was make an account and answer it where you can see it.

risingstar3110

2011-07-11, 22:31

Why would you impose such a horrible policy on yourself? :(

There are so many incredible anime besides Utena (which you indeed have to watch!) you're missing out on... so many... In fact, I'd say 2005 is more or less when the overall quality of anime started to decrease.
Because otherwise there will be too many anime to check out, and i try to keeps watching anime as a source of entertainment, rather than killing time . I do the same policy to movie as well :p

So it's like "Hmm... i'm bored. Can start watching those bunches of pre-2005 anime/ movies. But it's against my own policy to do so. So better get my ass up and find something else to do"

Of course i will only try to avoid it, no point wasting time watching a crappy show of post-2005, while missing out better one of pre-2005

Slick_rick

2011-07-11, 23:09

Oh, I don't think they have to do anything sexual, at least not yet :heh:. But the imagery, the dialogue, everything in that scene has a very deliberately sexual connotation. Besides, it's not coincidence that Kanba decides to act on his feelings for Himari after that scene. Personally, I think the penguin girl took his inhibitions regarding Himari out of his body, thereby taking a toll from the possibilities if his future (healthy offsprings=future=fate). All this as a payment for Himari and has to do with the survival strategy (the instinctive strategies that animals take to unsure their survival, including reproduction!).

Female here, that wasn't my first impression though I can see where you're coming from. I'm going to argue that the entire transformation sequence is an representation of evolution from a single celled organism to humanity. And, because evolution is all about sex, the entire thing is incredibly Freudian.

Spoiler cut for image heavy story time and shameless self promotion.

http://i.imgur.com/A6MfN.jpg

We start out with the world. Big round sphere with a clock on it. As the green pulse starts beating, it starts snowing which means the atmosphere now has water (and it can support life). We now zoom in the world.

http://i.imgur.com/LPvnG.jpg

As it continues to snow, we get the creation of the single celled organism. As the organism continues to move through time, it evolves and reproduces through cell division/mitosis/I forgot all my high school biology.

http://i.imgur.com/BAC7o.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FDPpH.jpg

Life evolves into a multiple celled organism and combines with other ones. Also get a call back Utena's Dios channeling, revolution creating, phallic thrust of life. Background's changed to pink and road signs have started to appear because life has gotten so complex you need them. Notice how everything is still going on a single, evolutionary track which also goes back to the heavy use of the metro/trains in Penguindrum so far.

http://i.imgur.com/72phL.jpg

Plants.

http://i.imgur.com/4FqPp.jpg

Animals. Interesting here that the tracks finally end...or does it?

http://i.imgur.com/3uMUD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aZCKi.jpg

Sexing animals leads to humans. The penis is now the track. THE END?

I further argue it's not. I've written this huge speculation tying in fate, apples, and transportation together which can be found here (http://penguindrum.livejournal.com/7909.html) for the interested.

But yeah, someone pointed me to your comment on lj, Vallen, and after looking through the rest of the thread and your question wasn't answered, I figured the least I could do was make an account and answer it where you can see it.

This is extremely interesting. I kind of can see the whole evolutionary thing. I still have some reservations but I think it's at least a good theory.

Though it sent my mind on a completely different train of thought. If the survival strategy has to do with evolution and reproduction then wouldn't the true antithesis to it be homosexuality, much more so than incest. Isn't that more closer to the statements of it a person "ignored his instincts and DNA to love someone else." I wonder where he's going with this but definitely seems interesting.

I definitely agree with some of the religious undertones with the apples and the constant appeals to god in the episode lends credence to a bit. The characters are definitely not atheists and the show has a bit of religious tones.

jeroz

2011-07-12, 00:28

shojo style chuu ni byou with incest

the penguins are fun, but the human are annoying. First time I want to punch a female protagonist in ep1.

was hyped after the PV, now I'm really close on dropping it.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-12, 04:24

Female here, that wasn't my first impression though I can see where you're coming from. I'm going to argue that the entire transformation sequence is an representation of evolution from a single celled organism to humanity. And, because evolution is all about sex, the entire thing is incredibly Freudian.

Spoiler cut for image heavy story time and shameless self promotion.

Thanks for going through all the trouble replying. I know that the LJ community and the general forums community rarely cross paths, so I appreciate you going through the trouble to reply to me. I would be making a visit to your LJ shortly to have a read.

And yeah, I can see it now; unlike Freudian imagery, it does appears in this case we have bypassed both lust and physical sex, and skipped straight to fertilization and pregnancy.

In short, this isn't about love or sexual pleasure, but why both of these things exist; to function as a survival strategy of the species. Ultimately reproduction is the aim, even though as a race humanity have bent the rules because we have such high childhood survival rates, it is no longer necessary for everyone to have children of their own.

Maybe that's why we have penguins in the show representing the three main leads; to show that they have a part of them that are animals.

***

I think I will go on a tangent now and discuss incest in terms of Survival Strategy.

It goes without saying that incest is a taboo in most cultures. And the technical explanation is also well understood. My own father was adopted, so when he was to marry my mother, there was an effort to track down his original family surname to make sure they don't have the same family. It was not so much a taboo, but treated like an Asian curse if the surnames of the couple are identical.

But look a bit deeper, and it is soon obvious that the Natural world has no intention of abolishing incest, no matter how much it is discouraged. If Survival Strategy is about continual existence of the species, then incest must remain an option for as long as there is danger that a species can be cut down to a single breeding pair.

This happened famously with the Cheetah. Genetic testing of wild population have confirmed the suspicion that the entire species had once dwindled down to one final litter during the previous Ice Age. This meant that for the Cheetah to survive, incest was necessary. The end result is that all the Cheetah in the world are near clones of one another, and they have many health issues. But the fact is they survived. Sick offspring is better than no offspring at all.

For less dramatic examples, we have fish and amphibians who breed under dangerous conditions in small rivers and ponds, and have their population massacred by weather cycles regularly. If these species had fool-proof incest aversion, they would no longer be around at all.

Why did I just type all that up? Well, what I am coming up to, is to make the argument that incest is NOT an enemy of Survival Strategy. Instead, it is simply the last resort. But for it to be the last resort of survival, it cannot be allowed to be extinguished. The lifeboats might look dorky hanging off the side of the Titanic, but you need them there.

Survival Strategy is a complicated term, indeed.

Though it sent my mind on a completely different train of thought. If the survival strategy has to do with evolution and reproduction then wouldn't the true antithesis to it be homosexuality, much more so than incest. Isn't that more closer to the statements of it a person "ignored his instincts and DNA to love someone else." I wonder where he's going with this but definitely seems interesting.
As far as homosexuality is concerned, Survival Strategy treat it the same way as people who never have children or people who never found a mate. In the Natural world, 90% of the new born population is produced by 10% of the previous generation. So the number of animals that never breeds were always meant to be high. Humans are unusual in that we live so damn long now; in the wild most of us should have died by the time we are 30 years old. Homosexuality is just a blip in the statistics that has no effect on the population as far as Survival Strategy is concerned.

Which is where things get weird. The cultural aversion to homosexuality made the assumption that the person would otherwise have kids. But that isn't the case; it is now perfectly acceptable to say in public that you never want children ever. But if the anti-gay people are suppose to follow logic (which they don't), they would have had to spread their hate to those who live their whole lives without having a single child to their name too.

EDIT:
I just want to write one last thing. Survival Strategy is NOT your friend. It doesn't take orders from humans, it shapes our actions and we only have limited means to fight against it. In the case of the sick and dying Himari who wasn't going to get to breed, she is considered non-existent and put on the ignored corner together with people who are sterile, unable/unwilling to have kids or not interested in the opposite gender.
So...

Crazy Theory Time!

Could it be that the incest is Himari's survival strategy? She is short on time, who knows how long her resurrection would last... Himari does not have time to find a boy, date him, and conceive a child before expiring. It could be that the only way for her own specific genes to survive is if she gets impregnated ASAP... And that means getting one of her brothers to do the act.
Ideal? Far from it. But for a girl who was suppose to be already dead, this is a "get on the lifeboat" emergency. No, this isn't what a human girl would want. This is what Survival Strategy wants.

Arabesque

2011-07-12, 04:45

Excellent observation, VinForSpi. Just one thing about it http://i.imgur.com/A6MfN.jpg

We start out with the world. Big round sphere with a clock on it. As the green pulse starts beating, it starts snowing which means the atmosphere now has water (and it can support life). We now zoom in the world.I would say that it looks more like a cross between the model of the universe we seen back at the doctors office and a model for time, hinting at the penguins arriving from the end of their destination (end of time?) rather than the world per say.

But I agree largely with what your interpretation.

risingstar3110

2011-07-12, 05:26

Crazy Theory Time!

Could it be that the incest is Himari's survival strategy? She is short on time, who knows how long her resurrection would last... Himari does not have time to find a boy, date him, and conceive a child before expiring. It could be that the only way for her own specific genes to survive is if she gets impregnated ASAP... And that means getting one of her brothers to do the act.
Ideal? Far from it. But for a girl who was suppose to be already dead, this is a "get on the lifeboat" emergency. No, this isn't what a human girl would want. This is what Survival Strategy wants.
I don't think..... it is that hard for a girl to be pregnant...

If that is the final goal, it will be much easier to get it done with with some other guy with one-night-stand(s), than getting romance with your sibling, especially there are two very caring of them.

Crazier theory developed from yours?
(Considering the ED) The Penguin Queen will need a guy to be transgendered and carry her child/serve her on something. Now that's when it's much harder to find random guy

Solace

2011-07-12, 05:53

I'm still pondering the ED sequence. This image caught my eye in particular:

http://forums.animesuki.com/picture.php?albumid=3202&pictureid=39933

Why? This is symbolized through the entire episode. In the opening narrative, the area by the window colored in Sho's blue, has two girl figurines. One with blue hair, one with reddish/pink hair. They're found again on the cup Himari uses for her toothbrush (the blue is next to Sho's cup, the reddish/pink is next to Kanba's). You find them again in the adverts on the train and station, talking about trash. When do you see the penguins for the first time? In color coded trash cans, each color just like the siblings hair. Note that each penguin ends up assigned to each sibling in that same color order. The clothing these girls wear is always similar to Himari's costume.

Too much coincidence, but it could mean anything.

EDIT: Upon rewatching the crazy symbolized sequence before the end, Sho and Kanba are handcuffed inside the bear thing. Note that Sho is surrounded by blue and Kanba is surrounded by pinkish/purple. Maybe I'm reading into this too much. O_o

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-12, 05:55

I don't think..... it is that hard for a girl to be pregnant...

If that is the final goal, it will be much easier to get it done with with some other guy with one-night-stand(s), than getting romance with your sibling, especially there are two very caring of them.

Ah, you missed my argument; the Princess of Crystal is forcing one of the brothers to make a move on Himari. As I say, what Himari as a humanbeing wants doesn't matter, Survival Strategy is making decisions for her now.

Himari is very likely not attracted to her brothers at all, nor is she desiring a child. But Survival Strategy do NOT ask for permission for anything.

(The ultimate dark side of Survival Strategy, is rape. I am not sure if the anime would go that far, but that is the ultimate heartless conclusion of Survival Strategy. Have a child via any means necessary, no matter how much pain and suffering it brings to the world.)

BluWacky

2011-07-12, 06:03

Going by the chart info alone, we can clearly see that Kanba certainly gets ridding on more than one train (hurrr) and that Ringo seems to also have a partner Penguin around as well (she is also after the Penguindrum, and ahead apparently).

The note about the sibling's relationship to Ringo on that chart is "promising lead on the Penguin Drum". It doesn't say she's looking for it, or that she's "in the lead" - it says that she IS a lead, she's a clue.

Slick_rick

2011-07-12, 07:35

As far as homosexuality is concerned, Survival Strategy treat it the same way as people who never have children or people who never found a mate. In the Natural world, 90% of the new born population is produced by 10% of the previous generation. So the number of animals that never breeds were always meant to be high. Humans are unusual in that we live so damn long now; in the wild most of us should have died by the time we are 30 years old. Homosexuality is just a blip in the statistics that has no effect on the population as far as Survival Strategy is concerned.

Which is where things get weird. The cultural aversion to homosexuality made the assumption that the person would otherwise have kids. But that isn't the case; it is now perfectly acceptable to say in public that you never want children ever. But if the anti-gay people are suppose to follow logic (which they don't), they would have had to spread their hate to those who live their whole lives without having a single child to their name too.

I'm less concerned with how Homosexuality works in the real world than how homosexuality would be treated by such a thing as a survival strategy. If incest is not against it but a last resort then that would characterize homosexual as a non resort for survival in its book.

EDIT:
I just want to write one last thing. Survival Strategy is NOT your friend. It doesn't take orders from humans, it shapes our actions and we only have limited means to fight against it. In the case of the sick and dying Himari who wasn't going to get to breed, she is considered non-existent and put on the ignored corner together with people who are sterile, unable/unwilling to have kids or not interested in the opposite gender.
So...

Crazy Theory Time!

Could it be that the incest is Himari's survival strategy? She is short on time, who knows how long her resurrection would last... Himari does not have time to find a boy, date him, and conceive a child before expiring. It could be that the only way for her own specific genes to survive is if she gets impregnated ASAP... And that means getting one of her brothers to do the act.
Ideal? Far from it. But for a girl who was suppose to be already dead, this is a "get on the lifeboat" emergency. No, this isn't what a human girl would want. This is what Survival Strategy wants.

I still don't buy into the sexual element but this is still interesting. Though I can natural see a survival strategy being something that goes against your free will which as human beings we care about as much if not more than just living.

I'm still pondering the ED sequence. This image caught my eye in particular:

http://forums.animesuki.com/picture.php?albumid=3202&pictureid=39933

Why? This is symbolized through the entire episode. In the opening narrative, the area by the window colored in Sho's blue, has two girl figurines. One with blue hair, one with reddish/pink hair. They're found again on the cup Himari uses for her toothbrush (the blue is next to Sho's cup, the reddish/pink is next to Kanba's). You find them again in the adverts on the train and station, talking about trash. When do you see the penguins for the first time? In color coded trash cans, each color just like the siblings hair. Note that each penguin ends up assigned to each sibling in that same color order. The clothing these girls wear is always similar to Himari's costume.

Too much coincidence, but it could mean anything.

EDIT: Upon rewatching the crazy symbolized sequence before the end, Sho and Kanba are handcuffed inside the bear thing. Note that Sho is surrounded by blue and Kanba is surrounded by pinkish/purple. Maybe I'm reading into this too much. O_o

I don't what to think about that. Honestly I just put them aside cause I don't think we'll get a good grasp of their purpose till later. They could actually be real people. I was assuming because of what they were wearing that they might be previous bodies this penguin has inhabited as their is only one penguin that so far is black the others are blue. If they transformed into them I'd assume they'd also wear blue clothing.

risingstar3110

2011-07-12, 07:41

Ah, you missed my argument; the Princess of Crystal is forcing one of the brothers to make a move on Himari. As I say, what Himari as a humanbeing wants doesn't matter, Survival Strategy is making decisions for her now.

Himari is very likely not attracted to her brothers at all, nor is she desiring a child. But Survival Strategy do NOT ask for permission for anything.

(The ultimate dark side of Survival Strategy, is rape. I am not sure if the anime would go that far, but that is the ultimate heartless conclusion of Survival Strategy. Have a child via any means necessary, no matter how much pain and suffering it brings to the world.)
Wouldn't it easier to control Himari (which the Princess has already done) than manipulating her brother?

Still i think we should wait a bit more for speculation. Now there is just too many possibilities to be happened. How many episodes this series have again?

That is probably the best aspect of this show. We are not clear on which direction it is heading to. The only sort of show that can probably rival Madoka for this year anime, i guess

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-12, 08:16

Wouldn't it easier to control Himari (which the Princess has already done) than manipulating her brother?

You expect the Princess of Crystal to actually do grunt work personally?:heh:

It seems already that she is into giving orders. Direct controlling Himari through the hat would mean she has to do everything herself. I don't see such an arrogant and holier-than-thou personality to be willing to do that.
I'm less concerned with how Homosexuality works in the real world than how homosexuality would be treated by such a thing as a survival strategy. If incest is not against it but a last resort then that would characterize homosexual as a non resort for survival in its book.

And there is nothing wrong with that. That's my point; it is no longer an abominable idea to not want children, though no doubt many cultures find that idea shocking. Just ask any parent demanding grandchildren from their offspring.

Homosexuality is contrary to survival strategy, but that isn't a crime any more than anyone else who never spawn an offspring. Survival Strategy is not morality; hell, it is downright immoral, with everything down to rape and murder being okay in its book if it meaning passing down genes.

In short, Survival Strategy is a wild and violent force that created life as we know it, but is not in any way benevolent. Human society in many ways exist to fight this instinct.

After all, rape is a crime.

risingstar3110

2011-07-12, 08:32

You expect the Princess of Crystal to actually do grunt work personally?:heh:

It seems already that she is into giving orders. Direct controlling Himari through the hat would mean she has to do everything herself. I don't see such an arrogant and holier-than-thou personality to be willing to do that.
In my defense, the series (and the Princess) will be much more sexy heading into that direction :p

Joking aside.... No. I really don't think it will happen. Unless she was sent down specifically for that task. I means the aliens in Blue Drop did go BOOM for fun (not really!), so who knows what these sentinel have in their... eh... penguin hats

Slick_rick

2011-07-12, 08:50

And there is nothing wrong with that. That's my point; it is no longer an abominable idea to not want children, though no doubt many cultures find that idea shocking. Just ask any parent demanding grandchildren from their offspring.

Homosexuality is contrary to survival strategy, but that isn't a crime any more than anyone else who never spawn an offspring. Survival Strategy is not morality; hell, it is downright immoral, with everything down to rape and murder being okay in its book if it meaning passing down genes.

In short, Survival Strategy is a wild and violent force that created life as we know it, but is not in any way benevolent. Human society in many ways exist to fight this instinct.

After all, rape is a crime.

Look, I have no idea how we got on this issue of morality. I certainly wasn't try to make any moral point but dealing only in how something like a survival instinct would treat homosexuality. Like you said it's contrary to survival strategy at least in the way we've hypothesized it. Which is really the only point I was getting at.

And I'd agree that survival strategy would at times go against morality, if it is as we think. The yearning to survive might make murder, rape, and a lot of other things certainly against the majority of moral codes, opinions.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-12, 09:03

Look, I have no idea how we got on this issue of morality. I certainly wasn't try to make any moral point but dealing only in how something like a survival instinct would treat homosexuality. Like you said it's contrary to survival strategy at least in the way we've hypothesized it. Which is really the only point I was getting at.

And I'd agree that survival strategy would at times go against morality, if it is as we think. The yearning to survive might make murder, rape, and a lot of other things certainly against the majority of moral codes, opinions.

Just to make clear, I hope I didn't turn out sounding hostile. It just seems like I might have offended you in some way and I apologise if that was the case.

I was merely doing my usual over-analysis of this show, mixed in with my understanding of what Survival Strategy means scientifically. And then stir that up with the hypothesis that the Princess of Crystal might be the human personification of Survival Strategy, which explains her arrogant posture.

All this from just episode 1. A theory that, while grand, might not even survive the next episode before being ripped to shreds. Ikuhara speculation has that kind of risk associated with it.

Slick_rick

2011-07-12, 09:17

Just to make clear, I hope I didn't turn out sounding hostile. It just seems like I might have offended you in some way and I apologise if that was the case.

I was merely doing my usual over-analysis of this show, mixed in with my understanding of what Survival Strategy means scientifically. And then stir that up with the hypothesis that the Princess of Crystal might be the human personification of Survival Strategy, which explains her arrogant posture.

All this from just episode 1. A theory that, while grand, might not even survive the next episode before being ripped to shreds. Ikuhara speculation has that kind of risk associated with it.

Yea, I agree its quite possible none of our theories but it'll be great if some of them do. Speculation does lead to a lot of interesting ideas.

I, too agree that the Princess of the Crystal is arrogant and I think that might be an important factor later. I don't think even the other penguins like her since they seemed none too happy to have her standing on their heads. It seemed pretty demeaning to me and seems to fit her character so far.

Lenneth4

2011-07-12, 09:52

Loved the first episode so much that i watched it over 20 times now...

i know , i have a big problems.

anyway , when for the enxt episode?

can't wait for the enxt fabulous episode xd.

in the end i saw alis in wonderland in close up before the brother kiss her.
probably a hint about the anime

Porbably the only anime to be close or even better than madoka !
kunihiko is really back.

VinForSpi

2011-07-12, 17:01

In short, this isn't about love or sexual pleasure, but why both of these things exist; to function as a survival strategy of the species.

You're welcome! And I definitely agree with your assessment! Like I argued in my post, the difference between humans and animals is the ability to love (and the sexual pleasure derived from loving). Therefore it makes sense that, in the transformation sequence, Freudian imagery exists but doesn't have any of its usual ties to love and lust as you aptly pointed out.

That being said, I think you make a good clarification when you say that "incest is NOT an enemy of Survival Strategy. Instead, it is simply the last resort." Even though I label incest as a deviation, it is still something that can be found in nature just as homosexuality is (which I highly bet is going to show up in this anime sooner or later).

I'm not sure where I stand on your theory about Himari's Survival Strategy though it does make sense in the framework we've been given.

Excellent observation, VinForSpi. Just one thing about it I would say that it looks more like a cross between the model of the universe we seen back at the doctors office and a model for time, hinting at the penguins arriving from the end of their destination (end of time?) rather than the world per say.
.

Yeah, I noticed that too and I think you're correct about linking the model with the planet. But, going back to the very, very beginning of the transformation sequence we get this bit:

http://i.imgur.com/bCJ7b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KnOkH.jpg

We're actually starting from the universe stand point. We're zooming past a bunch of stars until we get the planet blow out of proportion compared to the rest of the Milky Way galaxy. The fact that the planet has a clock on it definitely shows its link to time, but then in continues to zoom in until we get the metaphoric timeline showcasing evolution means that, in this context, it makes more sense for it to be a planet (something smaller) than the universe (biggest thing).

But yeah, it definitely does show that the Princess and the penguins have arrived at the end of the destination. The Princess does, after all, say that she comes from "the destination of your fate." Destination means location, Fate is the product of time (which indicates that the Princess possibly comes from the future).

And @ Slick_rick: I'm going to side with Vallen on this one too because there been documented sightings of animals practicing homosexuality so it's not the "antithesis" but more like what Vallen says is the "last resort." Again, it's a deviation, not something completely out of the blue.

Therefore, like I said, the cruelty of Survival Strategy isn't that it acts on the person's deviation--things that he or she knows that are not just socially taboo, but also going against the common sense of animistic law--but it seems to (hasn't been explicitly show yet so I'm just extrapolating here) remove the strong emotions (the passion, the love) that he or she has for the person.

In other words, it's essentially turning them into animals.

Dist

2011-07-12, 17:16

Kazu-kun

2011-07-12, 17:32

This series would be good story wise.. but.. what's up with that art? Do you really have to have guys with the eyes and eyelashes of girls -_-. Blushing when not necessary was annoying as well. Is this supposed to be shojo or something.

Well, Ikuhara loves shoujo. So it's true to his style to look for a character designer with such roots, and Lily Hoshino is primarily a BL artist, which is a subset of shoujo.

So I suppose you could say this is shoujo Ikuhara style. There's nothing quite like it. :heh:

Would like to know the demographic for the novel adaptation though.

Slick_rick

2011-07-12, 17:34

And @ Slick_rick: I'm going to side with Vallen on this one too because there been documented sightings of animals practicing homosexuality so it's not the "antithesis" but more like what Vallen says is the "last resort." Again, it's a deviation, not something completely out of the blue.

Therefore, like I said, the cruelty of Survival Strategy isn't that it acts on the person's deviation--things that he or she knows that are not just socially taboo, but also going against the common sense of animistic law--but it seems to (hasn't been explicitly show yet so I'm just extrapolating here) remove the strong emotions (the passion, the love) that he or she has for the person.

In other words, it's essentially turning them into animals.

But homosexuality could never be a resort of a survival strategy. If we're talking about the procreation of a species then its as productive as abstinence. It occurring in Animals is something I know already but it doesn't really change the point. You can definitely consider incest as a last resort in some sense though no homosexuality. Any kind of survival instinct should reject homosexually just like it would get rid of inhibitions about incest in order to survive.

If I follow the reasoning of the theory I would expect to see this issue raised at some point, if it pans out. Now, please no moral tangents. I just stating how my reasoning is flowing.

This series would be good story wise.. but.. what's up with that art? Do you really have to have guys with the eyes and eyelashes of girls -_-. Blushing when not necessary was annoying as well. Is this supposed to be shojo or something.

Director of Sailor Moon and Revolutionary Girl Utena...

VinForSpi

2011-07-12, 18:03

But homosexuality could never be a resort of a survival strategy. If we're talking about the procreation of a species then its as productive as abstinence. It occurring in Animals is something I know already but it doesn't really change the point. You can definitely consider incest as a last resort in some sense though no homosexuality. Any kind of survival instinct should reject homosexually just like it would get rid of inhibitions about incest in order to survive.

If I follow the reasoning of the theory I would expect to see this issue raised at some point, if it pans out. Now, please no moral tangents. I just stating how my reasoning is flowing..

I was just thinking of examples of homosexuality occurring in animals and I just thought of two examples, one being a couple years back, there were those two male penguins (http://articles.sfgate.com/2004-02-07/news/17414549_1_bruce-bagemihl-homosexual-gay-penguins)at that zoo who took care of an abandoned child.

There's also the case of the lesbian albatrosses (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/7144393/Lesbian-albatrosses-to-raise-chick.html) that actually happened in the wild. I'm too lazy to find the actual article, but in any case, these point out to that homosexuality can be a survival strategy: not for the actual individual, but their race. That is, when there are an excess/abandoned children, homosexual couples band together to take care of them. I guess you could consider it a form of population control?

And yeah, I agree with you: I think good analysis should be on the basis on the argument, not on one's own sense of morality. I don't think it's wrong to cast personal judgement, just that it has it's own separate place.

Slick_rick

2011-07-12, 18:25

I was just thinking of examples of homosexuality occurring in animals and I just thought of two examples, one being a couple years back, there were those two male penguins (http://articles.sfgate.com/2004-02-07/news/17414549_1_bruce-bagemihl-homosexual-gay-penguins)at that zoo who took care of an abandoned child.

There's also the case of the lesbian albatrosses (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/7144393/Lesbian-albatrosses-to-raise-chick.html) that actually happened in the wild. I'm too lazy to find the actual article, but in any case, these point out to that homosexuality can be a survival strategy: not for the actual individual, but their race. That is, when there are an excess/abandoned children, homosexual couples band together to take care of them. I guess you could consider it a form of population control?

And yeah, I agree with you: I think good analysis should be on the basis on the argument, not on one's own sense of morality. I don't think it's wrong to cast personal judgement, just that it has it's own separate place.

Yes, but that's those animals raising children together which is different than them procreating which each other. Again that doesn't really go against anything I said. As far as I understand their is no animal species that can propagate without a male and female together. If a species were down to a "last resort" as incest is put forth as, then certainly homosexuality would be going against that.

My main thinking would be if we have something like a survival strategy that causes you to have incest then we can also say that it won't care if you're homosexual either. It would take away your free will to choose in order to propagate itself. If love the person or hate that person it would be all the same to something like that.

Kagayaki

2011-07-12, 21:49

^ Actually, the New Mexico Whiptail is a species of lizard with only females. They reproduce asexually, but still perform mating rituals and "mate" in order to cause hormonal changes that will maximize reproductive success. So basically, it's a species of lesbians.

That should kill the idea that homosexuality can be of no use to any animal species, although I don't know if this has any symbolic bearing on the show.

source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis#Reptiles
Parthenogenesis has been studied extensively in the New Mexico whiptail (genus Cnemidophorus), of which 15 species reproduce exclusively by parthenogenesis. These lizards live in the dry and sometimes harsh climate of the southwestern United States and northern Mexico. All these asexual species appear to have arisen through the hybridization of two or three of the sexual species in the genus leading to polyploid individuals. The mechanism by which the mixing of chromosomes from two or three species can lead to parthenogenetic reproduction is unknown. Because multiple hybridization events can occur, individual parthenogenetic whiptail species can consist of multiple independent asexual lineages. Within lineages, there is very little genetic diversity, but different lineages may have quite different genotypes.

An interesting aspect to reproduction in these asexual lizards is that mating behaviors are still seen, although the populations are all female. One female plays the role played by the male in closely related species, and mounts the female that is about to lay eggs. This behaviour is due to the hormonal cycles of the females, which cause them to behave like males shortly after laying eggs, when levels of progesterone are high, and to take the female role in mating before laying eggs, when estrogen dominates. Lizards who act out the courtship ritual have greater fecundity than those kept in isolation, due to the increase in hormones that accompanies the mounting. So, although the populations lack males, they still require sexual behavioral stimuli for maximum reproductive success.[19]

Slick_rick

2011-07-12, 22:01

^ Actually, the New Mexico Whiptail is a species of lizard with only females. They reproduce asexually, but still perform mating rituals and behaviors in order to cause hormonal changes that will maximize reproductive success. So basically, it's a species of lesbians.

That should kill the idea that homosexuality can be of no use to any animal species, although I don't know if this has any symbolic bearing on the show.

source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis#Reptiles

Still irrelevant. That's asexual and why would a creature resort to a survival strategy like this if it was asexual. Even you somehow found a creature, extremely unlikely, it still wouldn't change my point for the vast majority of cases. Their is no real need to look for obscure examples to try to disapprove me.

Kagayaki

2011-07-12, 22:57

That's asexual and why would a creature resort to a survival strategy like this if it was asexual.

Well, lizards lay more eggs or something after they have sex. So these lizards still have sex for the hormonal stimulus, even though their eggs don't need to be fertilized.

I'm not quite sure what you were asking here, but does that answer your question?

Their is no real need to look for obscure examples to try to disapprove me.

Oh, well I was just skimming through the thread, and I saw your last post, and I remembered the example from a biology class. I just thought people in this discussion might think it was interesting. I'm not out to get you or anything, trust me ;)

I agree that the example I gave probably doesn't change how we should interpret the themes of the show. I'm not even sure how you guys got onto this topic anyways, so I won't respond re:homosexuality or lizards in this thread to avoid being off topic.

Slick_rick

2011-07-12, 23:43

Well, lizards lay more eggs or something after they have sex. So these lizards still have sex for the hormonal stimulus, even though their eggs don't need to be fertilized.

I'm not quite sure what you were asking here, but does that answer your question?

Oh, well I was just skimming through the thread, and I saw your last post, and I remembered the example from a biology class. I just thought people in this discussion might think it was interesting. I'm not out to get you or anything, trust me ;)

I agree that the example I gave probably doesn't change how we should interpret the themes of the show. I'm not even sure how you guys got onto this topic anyways, so I won't respond re:homosexuality or lizards in this thread to avoid being off topic.

When you say stuff like "that should kill the idea", which I don't think it does, there is definitely some implied hostility there towards my idea at the least. Even if I give you this which I assume they still bear eggs even when they don't have sex, it still not incorporated 99.999% for other creatures survival strategies. It's very interesting though thanks for sharing.

Like I said if we take the transformation scene to be some Freudian reproduction/evolutionary symbolism that somehow removes inhibitions and taboo like incest we'd also have to then realize that it would probably be against homosexuality for its own purposes.

I personally don't even believe that scene to be sexual but it I followed that logic its generally lead my mind to reach that conclusion which may or may not even come to pass or be relevant.

ZODDGUTS

2011-07-13, 06:14

I'm sure it's already been pointed out:

http://i.imgur.com/QcOtNl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tGIbDl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/o0WNkl.jpg

Ziziphus

2011-07-13, 10:24

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/kirimarubis/20234610.jpg

risingstar3110

2011-07-13, 11:53

So i have just started to watch Utena recently. And while the art/animation style is not really resemble so far. I really love the kind of random humour in Ikuhara works... (the penguins here, the running loose horse bull kangaroo there)

Will also expect Mawaru Penguin Drum to dedicate at least a whole episode for comedy sometime in the future

Shiroth

2011-07-13, 13:10

Originall Hoshino Lily designs from the starting guide book. http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2505/345280943.jpg

I love Lily's art. <3

Forsaken_Infinity

2011-07-13, 13:35

I love it too :3

Kazu-kun

2011-07-13, 14:35

When you say stuff like "that should kill the idea", which I don't think it does, there is definitely some implied hostility there towards my idea at the least. Even if I give you this which I assume they still bear eggs even when they don't have sex, it still not incorporated 99.999% for other creatures survival strategies. It's very interesting though thanks for sharing.

First, survival strategy is not only about reproduction. Anything animals do to unsure their species' survival is a survival strategy. For instance, migratory birds' migrations are a survival strategy.

And of course, forming homosexual couples to raise orphaned offspring is a survival strategy too. Anything, and everything that may increase their possibilities of survival.

Of course, if only two individuals (say, male and female) from a given species remain, then no doubt it won't matter whether they are closely related or homosexuals or whatever; their instincts will still have them mate in order to survive.

But I don't see how homosexuality might be relevant in the series' context, since we're talking about Himari and Kanba, and neither seem homosexual to me. The point here is that they're related.

Arabesque

2011-07-14, 04:18

I think then we need to figure out what is the survival strategy is meant to survive from, to decided whether or not this was about reproduction or otherwise. Birds migrate to survive from the cold, animals form couples for their orphans to insure the next generation lives on, mate with their siblings to not go extinct etc. but these actions are taken according to the situation present to them.

So, what is this survival strategy meant to do. What are they trying to survive from? Prolonging Himari's life? Saving the penguins?

The note about the sibling's relationship to Ringo on that chart is "promising lead on the Penguin Drum". It doesn't say she's looking for it, or that she's "in the lead" - it says that she IS a lead, she's a clue.Ah I see, I misinterpreted that section of the chart then. My mistake.

Suzuku

2011-07-14, 08:04

But I don't see how homosexuality might be relevant in the series' context, since we're talking about Himari and Kanba, and neither seem homosexual to me. The point here is that they're related.
Homosexuality is counterproductive to survival because same-sexes can't breed. So, homos in this series would basically be the antagonists working to thwart The Princess of Crystal's survival strategy. Sure is social commentary.

I think then we need to figure out what is the survival strategy is meant to survive from, to decided whether or not this was about reproduction or otherwise. Birds migrate to survive from the cold, animals form couples for their orphans to insure the next generation lives on, mate with their siblings to not go extinct etc. but these actions are taken according to the situation present to them.

So, what is this survival strategy meant to do. What are they trying to survive from? Prolonging Himari's life? Saving the penguins?
A lot of people seem to think it has something do with sexual reproduction, due to the symbolim used in the transformation scene. Seems pretty plausible too, given the guy who is behind this is a complete lunatic.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-14, 09:32

Homosexuality is counterproductive to survival because same-sexes can't breed. So, homos in this series would basically be the antagonists working to thwart The Princess of Crystal's survival strategy. Sure is social commentary.

Hold on...
What made you think The Princess of Crystal is the HEROINE?

For you to think "homos" are antagonists means you think the Princess is the Protagonist. Yet we see plenty of signs that the Princess is far from friendly. She is downright repulsive.

Is there any reason you think Princess of Crystal is actually not the enemy? I mean, she is a parasitic hat!

The brothers might have made a deal with the princess to save their sister, but it was obviously not done because the princess want to be nice. She wants them to do something for her in return, and there is no reason why the task would be pleasant. I have long learned to be weary of cute girls in anime as potential future enemies/last bosses.

Suzuku

2011-07-14, 09:39

Okay, I never meant that the Princess was a protagonist, I just wanted to make it clear how homos could fit in the context of the story.

Dist

2011-07-14, 10:56

Director of Sailor Moon and Revolutionary Girl Utena...

Even so.. if the demographic of this series is not shoujo, why draw it like one? Well, I don't know what the demographic is but I could have liked it if the characters weren't like they are. Well I might still watch it but can't say I like what I see.

+ I'll never understand why shoujo must look like what it does. What do girls appreciate in girl looking males <.<

ars89

2011-07-14, 10:58

No idea what i just watched, but i loved it. The penguins are great. Quite a roller coaster of emotions. I got lost in the ending though. So when she initiated the survival strategy she took something out of one of her brothers. Also did Kanba kiss her at the end?

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-14, 11:03

Even so.. if the demographic of this series is not shoujo, why draw it like one? Well, I don't know what the demographic is but I could have liked it if the characters weren't like they are. Well I might still watch it but can't say I like what I see.

+ I'll never understand why shoujo must look like what it does. What do girls appreciate in girl looking males <.<

You might as well ask why anime characters look like anime characters.

Anyway, Western cultures excessively enhance masculine features for male characters. Japan doesn't much care for macho stuff. In fact, big muscular brutes is popularly associated with homosexual men in Japanese stereotypes. In other words, "only real men wear pink".

Kazu-kun

2011-07-14, 12:14

Homosexuality is counterproductive to survival because same-sexes can't breed.

But whose survival are we talking about? We don't even know that yet, so we can't really be sure whether homosexuality even plays a role here. Besides, if the Princess is revealed to be the actual antagonist, then the series ultimate message could quite possible be against survival strategy and not in favor of it.

Anyway, let's wait and see.

So, what is this survival strategy meant to do. What are they trying to survive from? Prolonging Himari's life? Saving the penguins?

Exactly! This is the most important piece of info we need right now!!

Suzuku

2011-07-14, 12:17

But whose survival are we talking about? We don't even know that yet, so we can't really be sure whether homosexuality even plays a role here.
Thus why it's called speculation.

TJR

2011-07-14, 12:38

Even so.. if the demographic of this series is not shoujo, why draw it like one? Well, I don't know what the demographic is but I could have liked it if the characters weren't like they are. Well I might still watch it but can't say I like what I see.

+ I'll never understand why shoujo must look like what it does. What do girls appreciate in girl looking males <.<

The producers have a fujoshi audience in mind (so yes, the artistic depictions and mannerisms of the brothers are meant to convey homoerotic overtones, although I expect extremes to be avoided). With late night nows, they generally tailor content toward a particular niche one way or another.

Anyway, Brain's Base has the fujoshi market down pat, so their involvement in the project makes sense.

Shiroth

2011-07-14, 14:05

It has happened.

Mawaru Penguindrum Cushion Offered in Japan in October (http://www.animenewsnetwork.co.uk/interest/2011-07-14/mawaru-penguindrum-cushion-offered-in-japan-in-october)

I am going to do everything in my power to own the cushion and those pins.

Suzuku

2011-07-14, 14:20

Holy fuck just take all of my money.

Kirarakim

2011-07-14, 14:27

Nina.Wolken

2011-07-14, 15:57

And episode 02 didn't disappoint in the least

Who would have thought that calm and soft looking Ringo was actually a quite terrifying stalker? ^^' We knew from the chart she was in love with Shou and Kan homeroom teacher, but not that was going as far as to dig under his apartment to spy on his privacy....
Now, about the penguin drum : did it just turn out it's Ringo's diary? O__o It seemed like a lot of stuff that just happened were already written in it and more entries (for thing that didn't happen yet logically) were in there too. And well, she did say herself that future was written down in it lol

One thing I wonder is if the brothers figured out her diary was what they were looking after... And is that diary the Penguin Drum itself or simply a part of it...

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-14, 16:27

Nina.Wolken

2011-07-14, 17:11

I still need to remind myself that there isn't suppose to be a single normal human in this show. So I expect the teacher to have surprises of his own.

I drew the same conclusion after this episode. A normal (plain?) looking girl turning out to be the kind to--

-- risk her life just to take an hive picture because some kind of (fishy) artifact suggested her to as part of a grand plan to seduce an older man? Not normal. Especially when you consider her degree of obsession over said man.

But we know that Ikuhara likes to portray teenagers as troubled characters and the whole point of Utena was for them to overcome their various issues to grow up and reach adulthood. I don't remember of any adult (who was of any relevance) in Utena.
So maybe we shouldn't worry / be suspicious about the teacher... yet.:heh:

Suzuku

2011-07-14, 19:52

gg subs are out.

Forsaken_Infinity

2011-07-14, 21:31

I knew there was something off about the Ringo girl the way she was indifferent to her friends and Shoma and his friend but I never would have thought she was such a creepy stalker ._.

And lack of Himari QQ.

The "message of the day" at the train for episode 2 was "Molest and get arrested" while it was "trash goes in trash can" for episode 1. Hmm...

Oh and that red shoe reference ._.

Triple_R

2011-07-14, 22:20

Episode 2 was a very fun watch for me.

Additional thoughts below:

I very much like this anime stylistically/artistically. It feels intensely insanely imaginative to me, and also rather creative.

I usually don't go for fanservice comedy, but this anime executes it in a relatively (and mostly) original way that makes it much more humorous to me than what would otherwise be the case.

Also, my feeling is that this anime is surrealism done right. It all feels vaguely magical, yet also mature and a bit off-kilter. The plot isn't terribly hard to follow, but also has enough surprising twists and turns to captivate me.

The penguins are also adorably amusing, I must say.

I'm certainly looking forward to more.

brocko

2011-07-14, 23:05

Only 5 mins in and already Rock Over Japan shows up lol :eyespin: Imaaagggiiinnneee~
There's probably a rule somewhere stating the more intricate the transformation sequence, the more it needs to be repeated :heh:

New girl is also creepily delicious haha. If extreme stalking were an actual sport, she'd be the world champion lol :heh:

creb

2011-07-14, 23:19

I spent about 20 minutes trying to imagine what possible functions all those buttons could possibly have for a toilet, and gave up before my head exploded.

4Tran

2011-07-14, 23:46

While episode 2 wasn't as mind-blowing as the first one, I thought it was still fantastic. Easily the funniest anime I've watched all year.

A few points of interest:

I haven't seen such good interplay between two male anime characters in a long time. They seem to be keeping Himari in the dark and I wonder when she'll be brought in full-fore into the wackiness.

The eyecatch is progressing station by station. If that holds, then there's a convergence point after the Episode 5 eyecatch.

The whole episode seems to be poking fun at the growing censorship culture around anime. The Penguins get into all sorts of racy situations, but the audience never gets to see anything that would be censored. It's also a strong statement against the silliness of censorship lighting and steam.

When we saw Kanba like this:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/4Tran/Penguindrum/Kanba_Rose.jpg
I cheered out loud. While Utena was far from the first show to frame bishounen with flowers, I think that Ikuhara owns the trademark on that. :p

The "message of the day" at the train for episode 2 was "Molest and get arrested" while it was "trash goes in trash can" for episode 1. Hmm...
Tokyo Sky Metro's mascots seem to be called Double-H. If the two brothers are supposed to be them as suggested by the ED, then their actions in the ads seem to indicate what their missions are for that episode. I wonder what would count as tossing garbage (someone) in the trash in Episode 1.

Only 5 mins in and already Rock Over Japan shows up lol :eyespin: Imaaagggiiinnneee~
There's probably a rule somewhere stating the more intricate the transformation sequence, the more it needs to be repeated :heh:
There is - it's called the Utena rule. :)

I spent about 20 minutes trying to imagine what possible functions all those buttons could possibly have for a toilet, and gave up before my head exploded.
It's not that unusual for fancy toilets in Japan to come with bidets. See wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan) for details.

sa547

2011-07-15, 00:12

Was doubling over and laughing hard! This episode demonstrates how to combine mindscrew with some sense of humor, with the penguins for added comic relief.

serenade_beta

2011-07-15, 01:14

Up until the end, it was a bit too slow and the penguins' mischief helped me get through it, but the last part was pretty interesting/scary.
Too bad that sparkly and colorful Seizon Kouryaku scene turned out to be stock animation and reused footage took up the first 5 minutes or so.

Mirai... Nik-... *cough*

I still need to remind myself that there isn't suppose to be a single normal human in this show. So I expect the teacher to have surprises of his own.

Really?
I know she turned out to be weird, but that is about it. The sister herself's personality isn't exactly "abnormal" nor are the brothers.

Blaat

2011-07-15, 01:18

Episode one wowed me more but episode two was more entertaining (how contradicting this may sound).
I particularly enjoyed the sibling interaction, Sho is an excellent straight man and the penguins are very amusing to watch (especially #2). Tokyo Sky Metro's mascots seem to be called Double-H. If the two brothers are supposed to be them as suggested by the ED, then their actions in the ads seem to indicate what their missions are for that episode. I wonder what would count as tossing garbage (someone) in the trash in Episode 1.I thought it was a reference to the penguins? In the first episode the penguins were hiding in a trash can and in this episode penguin #2 accidentally molested a girl.
Next week will most likely confirm or deny my theory

Suzuku

2011-07-15, 01:25

This ep was indeed hilarious and yet strangely serious at the same time. It kept me roped along the whole way, and I was starting to be lead into believing it was a light hearted affair and they were just mistaken in thinking Ringo had the Penguin Drum, but then that curveball ending came and through me completely out of the loop. I couldn't make out whether what was happening was serious or just comedic. I guess we have some snooping to do for little hints in the episode to point us towards the correct path. Anyway, I'm still confused as to wtf is going on lol. And like, it's a completely different confused than what Star Driver made me, which can just be attributed to bad/lazy writing in failing to properly explain the set up of the organizations in the story. Here, the confusion is just...genius.

Oh yeah, any respectable weeaboo should have long realized and known this, but just in case, Ringo=Apple in Japanese. And the character Ringo here is apparently a starch believer in fate, as opposed to Kanba and Shouma. We know that in Penguindrum the Apple represents the universe so...idk lol. Maybe it means in our universe fate is real and certain, and to try and go against it would make you not of this world, or un-human? Which goes in-line with Kanba's monologue in the end of last episode.

kk2extreme

2011-07-15, 01:28

I think the penguin princess is trolling them...

Kazu-kun

2011-07-15, 01:48

I think the penguin princess is trolling them...

This.

Also it seems that whatever is keeping Himari alive is what the princess is taking out of Kanba. At least, that is the impression this episode gave me.

Guardian Enzo

2011-07-15, 01:55

Hey, who hasn't uttered those immortal words: Are you trying to steal my octopus-shaped wieners?

This was a much sillier episode, but Ringo certainly took it to a very dark place at the very end - somewhat shocking tone shift there. I still think this is a fascinating mess more than a classic at this point, but it grabs your attention like few other shows can.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-15, 02:50

I think the penguin princess is trolling them...

The only question isn't if the Princess is the enemy, but if there is an even worse enemy than her that the brothers had to worry about.

Because I once thought that Ringo might have a chance of being an ally. But now... I am not so sure.

mellomarie

2011-07-15, 03:09

Maybe it means in our universe fate is real and certain, and to try and go against it would make you not of this world, or un-human? Which goes in-line with Kanba's monologue in the end of last episode.

i was thinking around similair lines. which makes me curious about himari's fate--they can't look for the penguindrum forever.

anyway, excellent second episode. the light-hearted-turned-dark episode reminds me a lot about utena, specifically the wakaba episodes :heh:

Kagura89

2011-07-15, 03:22

Because I once thought that Ringo might have a chance of being an ally. But now... I am not so sure.Who in the right mind want a stalker to be an ally.:uhoh:

And here I thought Akira Ishida character to be some kind of suspicious guy but instead we get to know that Ringo is a stalker.:heh: Props to Kanba because he has good taste on women lingerie, as expected from a siscon/pimp.

hoarfrost

2011-07-15, 03:30

Homosexuality is counterproductive to survival because same-sexes can't breed. So, homos in this series would basically be the antagonists working to thwart The Princess of Crystal's survival strategy. Sure is social commentary.

I don't really wanna have the whole debate about it (I have it enough in other places) but since it seems semi-relevant to the matter at hand, homosexuality occurs naturally in hundreds of species for survival purposes. Some animals are known to form homosexual couples to adopt abandoned children and some studies show that the more children of the same gender a woman has, the higher the chance of each successive one being homosexual, probably for population control. A species that just grows exponentially won't last long, so in that sense population control would be a "survival strategy".

ttdestroy

2011-07-15, 05:05

anyway, excellent second episode. the light-hearted-turned-dark episode reminds me a lot about utena, specifically the wakaba episodes :heh:
I think that's what will define this show, cuz they balance the light and dark like true pros.

I wonder if we can go three straight on each episode getting better, looks like you'll have to tune in next week to find out!

Kanon

2011-07-15, 06:24

The second episode was just as fun as the first.

A stalker girl giving off yandere vibes and who has a diary able to predict the future in her possession... Yuno, is that you!? Well, this prove interesting. The symbol on Ringo is diary is in the ending, along with other symbols. Can we assume that means other magic objects will show up in the series?

Seeing two stalkers stalk a stalker proved to be even more entertaining than I thought it would. The penguins were hilarious! The two brothers are a great duo as well. Like 4tran, I find their interplay to be some of the best I've seen in a long time between two male characters (I quite enjoy the one in No. 6 too). Kanba's my favorite of the two brothers so far, the way he shoujo'd that girl in the train was impressive. And just to make sure, their seiyuus both have the same last name (Kimura) but they are not actually related, right?

Ziziphus

2011-07-15, 09:01

Haha, this episode cracked me up. It’s a lot more hilarious and laid-back than the last episode, but still didn’t forget to include a twist at the end for us. Professional stalker? Future diary? Why am I not surprised.

Those penguins can be extremely useful and useless at the same time. No.2 sure likes his pesticide can. He's my favorite of the three.

When we saw Kanba like this:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/4Tran/Penguindrum/Kanba_Rose.jpg
I cheered out loud. While Utena was far from the first show to frame bishounen with flowers, I think that Ikuhara owns the trademark on that. :p

If you look behind him in that scene, all other men are baldies. :p I don't remember it was like that before. Must be bishie power!

Tokyo Sky Metro's mascots seem to be called Double-H.
Hmm, I remember reading somewhere that they're called WH, which can be pronounced pretty similar to Double-H, so which is correct? Is there an official name somewhere?

Another question: this week's Survival Strategy meeting doesn't include the last scene where Himari takes sth out of Kan's chest, so does that mean it didn't happen? Or they just didn't show us?

Suzuku

2011-07-15, 09:02

I don't really wanna have the whole debate about it (I have it enough in other places) but since it seems semi-relevant to the matter at hand, homosexuality occurs naturally in hundreds of species for survival purposes. Some animals are known to form homosexual couples to adopt abandoned children and some studies show that the more children of the same gender a woman has, the higher the chance of each successive one being homosexual, probably for population control. A species that just grows exponentially won't last long, so in that sense population control would be a "survival strategy".
But is it practical? Sure, there will be a couple of homosexuals in every species for possible population control reasons, but too many could lead to the extinction of the species. At least that is how it works for most species. Homosexuals can't reproduce, they can yern for their own children and adopt the children that were procreated by heterosexual interactions, but they cannot reproduce on their own. It's an undeniable fact that if a significant amount of the ecosystem's population suddenly turned homosexual, many species would go extinct within a few hundred years, or sooner. Besides, it's not like the species will grow beyond its resources immediately because they reproduce; nature continues to provide all the nutriment they need as long as they stay within their means and don't try to go search for more than they need.

Any benefits homosexuality offers to survival is minimal and should be contained to small percentages of the population, as too much of it would result in extinction. And none of the possible benefits of having homosexuals in the population change the fact that to be homosexual is to go against nature, or the programmed DNA and instincts that are implanted in us. In other words, it goes against fate. It's the same thing as loving your sister, it's not "natural". Whether that's a bad or good thing here is still unclear though.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-15, 09:19

But is it practical? Sure, there will be a couple of homosexuals in every species for possible population control reasons, but too many could lead to the extinction of the species. At least that is how it works for most species. Homosexuals can't reproduce, they can yern for their own children and adopt the children that were procreated by heterosexual interactions, but they cannot reproduce on their own. It's an undeniable fact that if a significant amount of the ecosystem's population suddenly turned homosexual, many species would go extinct within a few hundred years, or sooner. Besides, it's not like the species will grow beyond its resources immediately because they reproduce; nature continues to provide all the nutriment they need as long as they stay within their means and don't try to go search for more than they need.

Any benefits homosexuality offers to survival is minimal and should be contained to small percentages of the population, as too much of it would result in extinction. And none of the possible benefits of having homosexuals in the population change the fact that to be homosexual is to go against nature, or the programmed DNA and instincts that are implanted in us. In other words, it goes against fate. It's the same thing as loving your sister, it's not "natural". Whether that's a bad or good thing here is still unclear though.

It is not POSSIBLE for "too many" homosexuals to cause extinction. The entire argument is silly.

The only way homosexuality can increase is if it is somehow inherited genetically. However, if it is somehow passed on genetically then the entire argument about extinction vanishes. As if genes are passed on then there is no extinction danger.

Survival Strategy does NOT consider Homosexuals a threat. It can't be because the worst thing that can happen is that they cut themselves off from the gene pool. The very thing that you worry about is the very same thing that makes it harmless.

For as long as Homosexuality cannot be inherited, it cannot expand in the population. And if you find some means to bypass the restriction, through whatever human technology, then homosexuals CAN reproduce and suddenly the extinction risk becomes zero.

If at some point the human race obtained means to reproduce between any two human of any gender, that would extend Human Survival far better than the old fashioned restriction of a male/female pairing.

Think outside the box.

EDIT: In fewer words: The main complaint is that Homosexuality inhibit breeding. Hence because they don't breed, they can't pose a threat. But if science finds a way, they are STILL not a threat as then the original complaint becomes invalid.

Lumir

2011-07-15, 09:59

Second episode was full of win. From the crazy survival strategy meeting to the lingerie store to the crazy stalker girl.

"Are those the holes they put their legs in?!!?"
"You dim witted young'in, those holes lead to the cosmos!"

Pure win. And that creepy stalker girl has a powerful diary. It seems she can write what she wants to happen and then stamps it with some creepy destiny image.

This series is something special.

Suzuku

2011-07-15, 10:05

It is not POSSIBLE for "too many" homosexuals to cause extinction. The entire argument is silly.

The only way homosexuality can increase is if it is somehow inherited genetically. However, if it is somehow passed on genetically then the entire argument about extinction vanishes. As if genes are passed on then there is no extinction danger.

Survival Strategy does NOT consider Homosexuals a threat. It can't be because the worst thing that can happen is that they cut themselves off from the gene pool. The very thing that you worry about is the very same thing that makes it harmless.

For as long as Homosexuality cannot be inherited, it cannot expand in the population. And if you find some means to bypass the restriction, through whatever human technology, then homosexuals CAN reproduce and suddenly the extinction risk becomes zero.

If at some point the human race obtained means to reproduce between any two human of any gender, that would extend Human Survival far better than the old fashioned restriction of a male/female pairing.

Think outside the box.

EDIT: In fewer words: The main complaint is that Homosexuality inhibit breeding. Hence because they don't breed, they can't pose a threat. But if science finds a way, they are STILL not a threat as then the original complaint becomes invalid.
Okay...your entire post is just agreeing with what I said about homosexuality being "unnatural", which of course implies that most of the population will not develop homosexual preferences. I was obviously speaking in hypotheticals when I was pointing out what would happen if half of the population became homosexual. My point was that, on a large scale, homosexuality is bad for survival. But, that's not exclusively what I meant. I was trying to point towards the fact that homosexuality, being bad for survival and unnatural, goes against fate, just like loving your sister.

Talking in terms of "what if science found a way" is a bit superfluous since there has been absolutely nothing to suggest that's even being considered here yet. By "nothing" I mean I see no symbolism or dialogue that points towards making "unnatural things natural" as being a theme of the story. Indeed, it directly contradicts what has been presented so far, which appears to be a debate between the natural and unnatural. To turn something unnatural into something natural would completely defeat the purpose. Bottom line is that homosexuality does not allow for reproduction and is thus bad for survival; if not on a large scale then on a personal scale because your own genes won't be passed on. Just saying they can be sanctioned off won't end the debate, although I agree that it's impossible for them to realistically harm society because it is, again, unnatural and goes against basic human programming in the first place. Which is why they would represent the opposing force to "fate", along with other unnatural things.

...lol, I can't believe this anime is leading to this level of discussion...Ikuhara is a pro troll. Now, where do Penguins fit in all this?

EDIT: Okay, after thinking about it a bit, I can see how Ringo loving the teacher can be seen as bending "natural things into the unnatural", so you can take that as some indication of turning natural things unnatural as a theme of the story, but I've seen no evidence for the vice versa yet. In some ways it also contradicts Ringo's belief in fate, as her loving an older man is unnatural. This might be saying that fate is not certain and even those who want to believe in it can end up deviating from it...but then Ringo is supposed to represent the idea of fate itself, so for her to contradict it is just...ughh IKUHARA.

VinForSpi

2011-07-15, 10:53

My first gut reaction when I saw that the mascots were called Double-H was associating them with the Double Helix. Especially because in lingerie shop the lingerie (gateway to the cosmos!!!) racks are shaped like DNA strands.

I still have way too many thoughts I still need to organize and I don't feel like adding to the homosexuality debate as I've already said my piece. That being said, I think a couple people here and there have asked why "shoujo?" I've been asking this myself as Ikuhara seems to obviously have an attachment to the genre to the point that, besides Schell Bullet, all his other works are very, very shoujo.

My thinking is that, compared to the shounen genre conventions, shoujo is aesthetically more removed from reality and borrows more from/mirrors literature more in this regard. It follows fluid emotional intensity rather than plot-dictated intensity. Like the shoujo bubbles in the background, the frames, spinning roses, sparkles, and whatnot--they are built and intricately tied to the foundation of shoujo. While, yes, shounen occasionally uses these things too, I'd argue they're used less as a foundation and like more of an occasional frame--it's used more as a strong emphasis rather than a simple conveyance of emotion. This is also probably why shoujo techniques like the background transitioning mid-scene are jarring in shounen ( and which is why they're used often to emphasize punchlines in jokes).

If this is the case, this means that the usage of symbols and being able to visually point them out as one does in literature is more easily conveyed through the visual lineage of shoujo. So like when say, Penguindrum, translates literary techniques such as metaphor visually (example being using transformation sequence is a metaphor for the process of evolution), it can do this without breaking its narrative verisimilitude. Even more, the audience is trained to anticipate them as well.

I think a good example of this divide is between Evangelion and Utena. Both are considered classics and are overwrought with hidden meaning, but in Evangelion case, it's symbols aren't flaunted in the same way Utena gleefully does. The most Eva can do is allude its references, either in dialogue, naming things, or in recreating a scene. Utena can do all these things, but added onto it, it can also present objects in and of themselves.

That being said, I think this is also why Ikuhara pairs up with a shoujo artist when he works. Even though he started out with the intention of writing Penguindrum's scripts himself, he realizes soon after that he needed help (as mentioned in one of his blog entries). Even though his own sensibilities lean more towards shoujo, Ikuhara doesn't think he has the necessary touch that a female artist has. And like, I think works out really really well for the end product. It has a much more balance feel to it.

klare

2011-07-15, 11:23

cant help laughing when roses and wind appear around Kan, while Sho has nothing

i think nobody could guess what Ringo was trying to do until finally seeing it, thats quite brilliant

so much more can be explored in this series and i expect more surprises

go penguins!

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-15, 11:28

EDIT: Okay, after thinking about it a bit, I can see how Ringo loving the teacher can be seen as bending "natural things into the unnatural", so you can take that as some indication of turning natural things unnatural as a theme of the story, but I've seen no evidence for the vice versa yet. In some ways it also contradicts Ringo's belief in fate, as her loving an older man is unnatural. This might be saying that fate is not certain and even those who want to believe in it can end up deviating from it...but then Ringo is supposed to represent the idea of fate itself, so for her to contradict it is just...ughh IKUHARA.

As far as Natural vs Unnatural... My personal views get tangled in this a lot, as I personally view the very definition of "Natural" as a giant lie constructed by humans to fool ourselves.

"Natural" as a word in the modern day is just a marketing term to sell products. Nothing more or less. It doesn't even hold any meaning that people think it has.

If the Survival Strategy doesn't even care about rape or murder, why should it care about what is or isn't natural? What Natural means in modern usage is a (ironically) artificially created separation made between what is created by humans and what is created by everything else. This separation doesn't actually exist; it is just made up by human society to make people feel better.

To draw a conclusion, is there really anything unnatural about stalking? You have love, you have lust, and you have the desire to get what you want via any means necessary. How is stalking someone you love unnatural? It is illegal, yes, and dangerous. But it is a perfectly predictable set of behaviours that a human might do. All the more proof that "Natural" as a term has been twisted; you tried to describe an illegal behaviour as if it shouldn't exist, when it has all the right to be present.

p.s. I hope I am not presenting myself in a way as to be trying to argue with you. This is just how I have my casual discussions.

Guardian Enzo

2011-07-15, 11:30

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-15, 11:42

I'm not going to wade into this discussion, which I think is treading very close to the line of of being inappropriate for the thread. But I just want to note that anyone who thinks Ikuhara is going to make some kind of anti-homosexuality diatribe the main theme of a series clearly has never seen an Ikuhara anime.

Well, yeah. Ikuhara certainly isn't judgemental.

Still, Stalking, like most other kinds of illegal activity, have basis in primal instincts. To take what isn't mine, to hurt other people, to trick others, to profit at all costs... these are all instincts that are present without needing human society to encourage. If they weren't instinctive, we wouldn't have such a hard time stamping them out using rule of law.

Sol Falling

2011-07-15, 12:01

Will take the time to read through the thread in a bit. First I wanted to through some impressions out there.

I thought the first episode was absolutely amazing, until the trashy stripwalking scene. This negative feeling was amplified by the equalling off-putting ED. I enjoy fanservice, but that is generally of the absurd or lighthearted kind--the gratuity employed in the ED for example just made me feel dirty.

I'm still not huge on the sexual themes by the second episode, but at least my repulsion has died down a little. Well, maybe actually having lyrics for the ED this time helped to take my focus away from the images. Incidentally, the OP this time gave me fucking goosebumps--so I am still pretty in love with this show overall.

As far as the themes: I see a whole lot of speculation is going on about the meaning of 'survival strategy'. I dunno if this has bring brought up before (hell, it probably has, but whatever) but my own thoughts are that that idea is also connected to the theme of the penguins. Moreso than the straight reproductive aspect of it, 'survival' with the context of penguins attached to it suggests a more global factor such as loss of habitat or global warming. I suspect some biological trivia about the reproductive habits of penguins may be thrown in at some point in the show (lol). Anyway, they've certainly got something intriguing here.

Incidentally, I never did finish Utena. I think I stalled at some point around episode 34 or 33. It's only been two episodes, but even with the more modern production and animation quality, I gotta say I can really see where these two works came from the same creator. The incest in Utena created a sortof unbearable atmosphere for me, so I'm not sure how well I'll respond to it in this series. Ikuhara's work has certainly got an very intriguing artistic sense however so I'm very genuinely excited to see more of this series.

wandering-dreamer

2011-07-15, 12:25

I laughed my ass off at that lingerie store for some reason, I think it was the combination of how absurd the whole situation was with the obviously CGI underwear models spinning around and the infinite amount of underwear in the sore (seriously, that was enough underwear to stock two or three stores easily!). And I'm hoping to find more people posting screenshots from the episode, my computer stopped when I was watching this episode and right before I got the stream working again I realized that one of the stores had a penguin design (from the OP) on it and I think there was one on Ringo's cellphone and in her diary at the end as well. It definitely feels like Utena in that respect, what's going on in the background is just as interesting as the main plot.

Shiroth

2011-07-15, 12:45

When we saw Kanba like this:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/4Tran/Penguindrum/Kanba_Rose.jpg
I cheered out loud. While Utena was far from the first show to frame bishounen with flowers, I think that Ikuhara owns the trademark on that. :p
You're not the only one that cheered :p. Ikuhara sure does love his flower frames, so it was a nice return to see them again. We've been getting a lot of early Utena camera work since the first episode, so it's only right that he starts to use some of his other trademarks.

I really love the overall silly factor of this episode, because we know from past Utena and Sailor Moon episodes that Ikuhara and do good silly. He can always do good serious, which was hinted at a little bit with stalker-chan at the end of the episode.

I really like the hints of Kanba remembering about what happened to him at the end of last weeks episode. That'll play a part in the story soon i'm sure, though i wouldn't be surprised if we had a few more silly episodes before that happened.

Noticed that the fabulous blonde haired female (Noto Mamiko is voicing her) from the OP appeared in the magazine Himari was looking at. I hope it's not long before she appears. Along with the super awesome fabulous pink haired guy.

& let's not forget, Ishida Akira :D. Penguindrum needs him!

Kanon

2011-07-15, 12:57

Along with the super awesome fabulous pink haired guy.

Wait, that's a guy!? Did Utena become a full-fledged prince?

wandering-dreamer

2011-07-15, 13:32

Seconding Kanon, I thought that the Utena look a like was a girl too!

http://ninteenpointzerofour.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/ikuharaafanfic.png?w=480&h=494

Kirarakim

2011-07-15, 13:44

Guardian Enzo

2011-07-15, 13:55

I thought the fact that the underwear display was a double-helix was a nice subtle yet obvious touch...

Ziziphus

2011-07-15, 14:13

My favorite scene in episode two

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/Kirarakim/snapshot20110715144225.jpg

Anyways I love how the penguins seem to have the personality of their "owners". No. 2 is my favorite, actually he is probably my favorite character overall so far. :heh:
Haha, no.2 is my favorite as well. I'm definitely getting an avy of him spraying the cockroach when I have the chance (actually, anyone so kind as making one for me, I'll be soo grateful for you!).

Here's my favorite scene from this ep:
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/kirimarubis/vlcsnap-2176804-1.png
Fly, fly to your papa!

I realized that one of the stores had a penguin design (from the OP) on it and I think there was one on Ringo's cellphone and in her diary at the end as well. It definitely feels like Utena in that respect, what's going on in the background is just as interesting as the main plot.

The store in question (it's in Ikebukuro I think):
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/kirimarubis/vlcsnap-2169944.png

The same trademark was seen in ep. 1 too:
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/kirimarubis/vlcsnap-2165871.png
There's also one store in Ogikubo with a penguin image:
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/kirimarubis/vlcsnap-2169493.png

Shiroth

2011-07-15, 14:57

Seconding Kanon, I thought that the Utena look a like was a girl too!
My sense says male, so i'll go with that for now. :p

Also the penguin logo is everywhere. I rewatched the first episode a large number of times, and you spot it in such strange places.

Anh_Minh

2011-07-15, 16:11

Still not quite sure what I watched...

Oh, well.

Say what you want about Kan's incestuous obsession, at least he gets things done. Sho, OTOH, is a goddamn whiner. They got off incredibly easy compared to Kyuubei's girls, and he's going to complain about a fetch quest and a little voyeurism?

Malkuth

2011-07-15, 16:19

Brilliant! The presentation is so surreal and absurd... I love it :D

Just a couple of things to note, is it me or at the end of the first episode Himari ripped out Kan's heart? And I keep hearing PINK drum instead of PENGUIN drum!?

SkullFaerie

2011-07-15, 16:25

I think I love this show :)

The penguins are one of the most awesome parts- I will never underestimate a penguin again, that's for sure...

I'm not sure what Himari /the possessed hat ripped out of Kan, it was clearly reminiscent of Utena, but for now I think there can only be speculation- his dna-destined program, his human restrictions, I can only guess...?

That said, I appreciated the Yuri-lookalike in the OP, and I'm also pretty sure the Utena/ Lacus lookalike is a guy.

Reckoner

2011-07-15, 16:26

These penguins are so useless much fun.

I don't know about other people, but as someone who has watched many shoujos, I don't mind the art style at all, and in fact I love it. So fabulous.

The plot seems to be focused a lot on fate, and how each character deals with the cards they are dealt in life. I expect to see a lot of crazy things in this story.

But we'll see. Episode wasn't as fantastic as last weeks, but still thoroughly enjoyable for me :).

Kirarakim

2011-07-15, 16:27

Haha, no.2 is my favorite as well. I'm definitely getting an avy of him spraying the cockroach when I have the chance (actually, anyone so kind as making one for me, I'll be soo grateful for you!).

I wish I could have a pet penguin to kill cockroaches for me, I am terrified of those things. :uhoh:

Although I wonder if those penguins will stay so helpful throughout the series.

Kazu-kun

2011-07-15, 16:35

Say what you want about Kan's incestuous obsession, at least he gets things done. Sho, OTOH, is a goddamn whiner. They got off incredibly easy compared to Kyuubei's girls, and he's going to complain about a fetch quest and a little voyeurism?

He's just out of his element. It's not only the moral issue of stalking the girls, but the whole thing with the crazy penguin chick and the penguindrum seems like some weird shit he just can't accept. Unlike his brother, he's too down to earth for all that crazy fantasy stuff, and there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, it's probably a good thing if you think about it.

At any rate, he'll get used to it. And maybe, in turn, his brother will start to be a bit more wary of the situation. Kanba seems a little too accepting of all this weird stuff, and to me that's bigger problem that Shoma whining a bit.

Just a couple of things to note, is it me or at the end of the first episode Himari ripped out Kan's heart? And I keep hearing PINK drum instead of PENGUIN drum!?

Because it's really not penguindrum, but pengudrum, as that's the way it's written in Japanese.

Malkuth

2011-07-15, 16:38

Because it's really not penguindrum, but pengudrum, as that's the way it's written in Japanese.

God damned subbers, always trying to confuse me :p

Shiroth

2011-07-15, 16:39

I don't know about other people, but as someone who has watched many shoujos, I don't mind the art style at all, and in fact I love it. So fabulous.
I read a number of Lily's works after it was announced that she would be doing the character designs for the show, and let me just say that she is easily one of my favourites.

Sure she writes 95% yaoi works, but i can ready anything for the art. :p

Anh_Minh

2011-07-15, 16:42

Kazu-kun

2011-07-15, 16:54

You know what's weird? That Himari's alive.So how about he counts his blessings?

But that's the point: Himari shouldn't be alive! And even though Shoma is truly happy about it, he can't help to think there's something wrong with it. And that's a good thing, because there is something wrong with it! Or what do you think all those references to the Night On The Milky Way Train are there for? I mean, we're talking about a novel which has "coming to terms with a loved one's death" as a freaking main theme, and that's totally opposite to the premise of this show. Don't you think referencing a novel that goes against the series' premise is a little strange? Don't you think it might be a clue that Shoma's doubts about this whole thing are somewhat justified???

Forsaken_Infinity

2011-07-15, 17:13

Tokyo Sky Metro's mascots seem to be called Double-H. If the two brothers are supposed to be them as suggested by the ED, then their actions in the ads seem to indicate what their missions are for that episode. I wonder what would count as tossing garbage (someone) in the trash in Episode 1.

Well, there was some speculation going on that the brothers - and especially Kanba - are the trash. The Crystal Princess does call them lowlifes who will never amount to anything after all. Also recall how both Shoma and Kanba complain about fate and how Kanba mentions that following genetic code like an animal might be for the better if everything was already fated. Then he goes on to ask the meaning of being human etc. If the scene with something being yanked out of his heart(?) does imply that his inhibitions have been removed and he is simply an animal who lusts after his sister etc., then he is a trash and should go in the trash can ._. Maybe.

Sol Falling

2011-07-15, 17:34

Okay, done reading the thread. Just a little something here:

Okay...your entire post is just agreeing with what I said about homosexuality being "unnatural", which of course implies that most of the population will not develop homosexual preferences. I was obviously speaking in hypotheticals when I was pointing out what would happen if half of the population became homosexual. My point was that, on a large scale, homosexuality is bad for survival. But, that's not exclusively what I meant. I was trying to point towards the fact that homosexuality, being bad for survival and unnatural, goes against fate, just like loving your sister.

Talking in terms of "what if science found a way" is a bit superfluous since there has been absolutely nothing to suggest that's even being considered here yet. By "nothing" I mean I see no symbolism or dialogue that points towards making "unnatural things natural" as being a theme of the story. Indeed, it directly contradicts what has been presented so far, which appears to be a debate between the natural and unnatural. To turn something unnatural into something natural would completely defeat the purpose. Bottom line is that homosexuality does not allow for reproduction and is thus bad for survival; if not on a large scale then on a personal scale because your own genes won't be passed on. Just saying they can be sanctioned off won't end the debate, although I agree that it's impossible for them to realistically harm society because it is, again, unnatural and goes against basic human programming in the first place. Which is why they would represent the opposing force to "fate", along with other unnatural things.

...lol, I can't believe this anime is leading to this level of discussion...Ikuhara is a pro troll. Now, where do Penguins fit in all this?

EDIT: Okay, after thinking about it a bit, I can see how Ringo loving the teacher can be seen as bending "natural things into the unnatural", so you can take that as some indication of turning natural things unnatural as a theme of the story, but I've seen no evidence for the vice versa yet. In some ways it also contradicts Ringo's belief in fate, as her loving an older man is unnatural. This might be saying that fate is not certain and even those who want to believe in it can end up deviating from it...but then Ringo is supposed to represent the idea of fate itself, so for her to contradict it is just...ughh IKUHARA.

Guy, there's been a tremendous number of examples referenced in this thread already about how homosexuality occurs naturally and is used as a survival strategy in many animal populations. To call somebody's sexual desires 'unnatural' is pretty much dead wrong--after all, sex is just about the most natural thing you can get, in the end, up there with mastication and shitting. Ultimately, everything about sex and lust really does come down to biology--an expression of our animal selves; so I think you can get off your high-horse about how 'unnatural' these other expressions of sex might be.

Moving on, to get back to the speculation I mentioned just a bit earlier--that the 'survival strategy' in this show may not necessarily be reproduction oriented, but rather about the survival of a species as a whole: I've got a bit more here.

So, I've been thinking about what the show could mean by "the destination of your fate". lol, totally vague, right? Random symbolism or a string of words which could refer to anything and which we'll hardly figure out anything until the end, in all likelihood! This is just something I throwing out there, i.e. the obvious, but: "the destination of your fate" might refer to death, or in a more global context, extinction. After all, that is truly the final 'fate' of everything, isn't it? So, in that case "I come from the destination of your fate" might thus inform us that the Penguins come from a place where they are facing death/extinction, and that this is the eventual destiny of Kanba/Shouma/Himari? too. The Penguins have come to initiate a 'Survival Strategy' which will somehow allow them to get around their destiny, and the Penguin Drum is some sort of key. ("drum"? A container of some sort? You could probably fit a penguin inside something of moderate sizing but it could also be for something more progenital).

Alternative explanation: the way "Fate" is used in the various monologues, it almost sounds like it refers exclusively to a person's lover. I.e. your "destined one" is your fate itself, so that to love someone forbidden (a family member, a member of the same sex) would be to make you 'fateless'. I'm riffing off the implications prevalent in Ringo and Kanba's perspectives on fate here, in which case the Crystal Princess's "I come from the destination of your fate" line would be indicating that she comes from the place of your destined lover. "Survival Strategy" would then be the initiative to bring you together with that person, which has a pretty obvious link with the red string symbolism (lol, this is just brainspew, but wow: that's looking pretty convincing to even myself really :P). The Penguin Drum, if we can safely take Ringo's notebook from the end of episode 2 to have something to do with it, seems to somehow be connected to fate or destiny itself. If we try to combine the reproductive implications of 'survival strategy' with the "key" of Fate as it currently seems with the Penguindrum, it really does seem like the point of the strategy might be able uniting you with your loved one of destiny.

I like the clarification some of you guys have provided about the train symbolism and Night on the Galactic Railroad; I'm not familiar with that work myself, so it's rather enlightening. The phrase "destination of your fate" takes on a bit more meaning given that metaphor, so I'll have to work that somewhere in eventually.

Arabesque

2011-07-15, 17:56

Episode two, while being seemingly comedic at first glance, is actually much darker throughout. Even before the ending.

Morality is the theme of this weeks episode. Is it morally right to stalk someone you love, even going as far as tapping their home? Is it morally right to do some very unlawful things in order to insure that your sister lives, including (but apparently not limited to) stalking a stalker, hacking personal information, breaking some girls heart, and even invading their privacy? Is it morally right to skip your school so you could use a camera to look at school girls panties?

Is it morally right to have invisible penguins do this (http://i.imgur.com/Lqcuj.jpg) to unaware girls?

The answer to most would be no in normal cases, but when it comes to saving your sisters life ... even then, you need to really love said sister (and I mean the Kanba sort of true love) to really not really balk at any of this (Sho even thought that looking through her things was going too far, especially moreso since they were on a wild goose (or rather, penguin) chase after something that she may or may not have)

Putting aside the moral issues the episode presents, the other noticeable part of this continues to be the visual aspect again. I said I didn't really want to be dragged into the dissection process (mainly because I'm not that great at it) but I still find it hard not to point out and talk about the references within the show (Ringo walking out the same bathroom stall the penguins were in the preview, the sign in her beehive photo, the preview of a certian character in the OP etc.) and otherwise (the fairy tale look in the mirror, Ringo opposing the brothers views on fate)

I thought that this episode was great, not as awe inspiring as the first, but I still glued to the screen, and is still wanting to rewatch it again.
While episode 2 wasn't as mind-blowing as the first one, I thought it was still fantastic. Easily the funniest anime I've watched all year.Really? Not saying this show isn't fun to watch and has great humor, but I wouldn't say it's the funniest this year.

A few points of interest:

I haven't seen such good interplay between two male anime characters in a long time. They seem to be keeping Himari in the dark and I wonder when she'll be brought in full-fore into the wackiness.As much has I enjoyed the having their back and forth, I did feel bad for Himari thinking the two were becoming delinquents :heh: I think the two shined best when they were mostly at disagreement at what needed to be done to save their sister. Kanba is obviously more willing to cross the line to save her, while Sho has his doubts. I actually like Sho more, since while being a bit of a wuss, is more level headed and his moral compass isn't that broken (but with this show you can never know right :p?) The whole episode seems to be poking fun at the growing censorship culture around anime. The Penguins get into all sorts of racy situations, but the audience never gets to see anything that would be censored. It's also a strong statement against the silliness of censorship lighting and steam.Was it? I thought that the idea was more going for more humor than fanservice in this case, since if there was one thing this show has show, it has no problem making girls strip :p

That being said, my favorite part of the episode had a lot to do with how much it was left to our imagination to see what the brothers were seeing. It also helped highlight the difference between the virgin Sho and the womanizer/perverted Kanba :p

Tokyo Sky Metro's mascots seem to be called Double-H. If the two brothers are supposed to be them as suggested by the ED, then their actions in the ads seem to indicate what their missions are for that episode. I wonder what would count as tossing garbage (someone) in the trash in Episode 1.My guess it was the penguins being those trash cans while stalking Himari and ShoIt's not that unusual for fancy toilets in Japan to come with bidets. See wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan) for details.I never understand why there has to be so many buttons :heh:

Really?
I know she turned out to be weird, but that is about it. The sister herself's personality isn't exactly "abnormal" nor are the brothers.Well ... Sho is more normal I guess and Himari ... I guess being a possessed zombie doesn't factor in but Kanba ... :heh:
This was a much sillier episode, but Ringo certainly took it to a very dark place at the very end - somewhat shocking tone shift there. I still think this is a fascinating mess more than a classic at this point, but it grabs your attention like few other shows can.I can sort of understand your view by saying that it feels more like a mess now (though I don't agree) since you did once compare the show with FLCL.

That being said, I don't think mess would be an accurate way to describe it, since the show clearly had much thought gone into making it. In these two episodes, I don't think I've seen it more made out of things that look cool for the sake of looking cool as much as being carefully placed an made (to look meaningful and cool)
My favorite scene in episode two

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/Kirarakim/snapshot20110715144225.jpg

Anyways I love how the penguins seem to have the personality of their "owners". No. 2 is my favorite, actually he is probably my favorite character overall so far. :heh:My favorite part of the episode (http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2011/07/15/i-am-number-one/)

Kanba's penguin through and through. Spread girl legs open and stares at their panties without flinching :heh:

It's clear that penguins reflect some part of their owners personality yeah. No.2 is a clean freak (apparently his gag is spraying bug spray) while No.1 is the cool pervert (oxymoronic, or the plain truth?) while No.3 is the ... fashionable one I suppose :heh:

I wonder what the others will be like ...

Sol Falling

2011-07-15, 17:58

He's just out of his element. It's not only the moral issue of stalking the girls, but the whole thing with the crazy penguin chick and the penguindrum seems like some weird shit he just can't accept. Unlike his brother, he's too down to earth for all that crazy fantasy stuff, and there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, it's probably a good thing if you think about it.

At any rate, he'll get used to it. And maybe, in turn, his brother will start to be a bit more wary of the situation. Kanba seems a little too accepting of all this weird stuff, and to me that's bigger problem that Shoma whining a bit.

But that's the point: Himari shouldn't be alive! And even though Shoma is truly happy about it, he can't help to think there's something wrong with it. And that's a good thing, because there is something wrong with it! Or what do you think all those references to the Night On The Milky Way Train are there for? I mean, we're talking about a novel which has "coming to terms with a loved one's death" as a freaking main theme, and that's totally opposite to the premise of this show. Don't you think referencing a novel that goes against the series' premise is a little strange? Don't you think it might be a clue that Shoma's doubts about this whole thing are somewhat justified???

I don't think Kanba's "too accepting"; he's simply eager to do absolutely anything to keep Himari alive, whatever it takes. This ultimately seems in line with his intensely repressed sexual desire for Himari, if we're right about that. Kanba's the one who thinks he is going against fate to the extent that he might even be un-human, so essentially it makes sense that he might be a person who will discard all remaining reservations.

Shou, by contrast, indeed does seem like he is more concerned with "how messed up this all is". In his opening monologue, he basically complains about how fate isn't fair--and it's also in his voice that we hear about, from the future, how things will be terrible and they'll come to regret the price they paid. Kanba is simply willing to pay anything--because for him, Himari is above everything else. Shou, compared to how he first felt in ep. 1's monologue, might eventually come to 'accept fate' and stop Kanba, telling him to accept Himari's passing. However, for the moment, since Shou and Kanba don't actually know anything bad's happening, I agree with Anh Minh that Kanba comes off as a much more powerful and competent character (seriously--they're twins?! Kanba seemed to me like he was ages ahead in terms of maturity).

Arabesque

2011-07-15, 18:08

I like the clarification some of you guys have provided about the train symbolism and Night on the Galactic Railroad; I'm not familiar with that work myself, so it's rather enlightening. The phrase "destination of your fate" takes on a bit more meaning given that metaphor, so I'll have to work that somewhere in eventually.I wasn't familiar with the work either, so reading the view point of someone who is, was interesting.

http://altairandvega.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/colloquium-mawaru-penguindrum-episode-1-4/
I agree with Anh Minh that Kanba comes off as a much more powerful and competent character (seriously--they're twins?! Kanba seemed to me like he was ages ahead in terms of maturity).I agree with all that you wrote up to this point. Yes, Kanba did come across as being more competent this episode, but I thought because it had more to do with how far he was willing to go for his sister so he was more outgoing in what needed to be done and the situation needing more use of his ''abilities'' so he came out looking ''better''.

That being said, I like Sho more. Sure, the guy a bit of a wuss, but he does have his good points (being closer to Himari, taking a more active role in her raising).

Also, twins don't always come having the same personality :p

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-15, 18:47

You know what's weird? That Himari's alive.So how about he counts his blessings?

He wish it was a blessing. But the fact is they were giving this "reward" for a price they did not even know of.

It's like someone giving me a million dollars and say "on, by the way, accepting this money means you need to do something for me. I will tell you want it is later".

Himari's new life isn't free. The worst thing is we don't actually know what the price is going to be, and that's scary. Especially since her continued existence needs to be maintained... This means at any time, Himari can become dead again if the Princess is so inclined.

karuroso

2011-07-15, 20:44

lol What a surprise! i thought that girl would be Shouma love interest by the way se was showed on the first ep, but for her to be their teacher's stalker.... very misleading the impression I had

maplehurry

2011-07-15, 21:29

Shou, by contrast, indeed does seem like he is more concerned with "how messed up this all is". In his opening monologue, he basically complains about how fate isn't fair--and it's also in his voice that we hear about, from the future, how things will be terrible and they'll come to regret the price they paid. Kanba is simply willing to pay anything--because for him, Himari is above everything else. Shou, compared to how he first felt in ep. 1's monologue, might eventually come to 'accept fate' and stop Kanba, telling him to accept Himari's passing.

So... it's more of a matter of not wanting to pay the price rather than "accepting fate".

8thSin

2011-07-15, 21:54

Just a couple of things to note, is it me or at the end of the first episode Himari ripped out Kan's heart? And I keep hearing PINK drum instead of PENGUIN drum!?

Because it's really not penguindrum, but pengudrum, as that's the way it's written in Japanese.

It's actually written in Japanese as "Pingdrum (Pingudrum)", but the official English title says "Penguindrum".

We went with "Penguin Drum" because the editor said screw them Engrish made up words.

BTW, "Mawaru (spin)" part is also written illegally as 「輪る」, which is wheel/cycle. In fact, the title was frequently written as 「廻るピングドラム」 online before it started to show in TV guides. I would say the best translation for the line is "Revolving Penguin Drum" rather than "Spinning" for "Mawaru" because of kanji.

Some 2ch speculators say the title is actually "Warping Drum", since that kanji also reads as "Wa", but we'll have to see what happens in following eps to determine if that's the case.

ahelo

2011-07-15, 22:16

This series is so fun! Bishounen, stalkers, penguins, lingerie GALORE.

This really is the best anime this season.

hanashi

2011-07-15, 22:43

I'm not sure what Himari /the possessed hat ripped out of Kan, it was clearly reminiscent of Utena, but for now I think there can only be speculation- his dna-destined program, his human restrictions, I can only guess...?

Am I the only one that saw that as some sort of rape symbolism? I wondered whether Princess was ripping out energy or *coughEssensecough* but the first episode was inconclusive. In the first episode, she stripped naked, a penguin conveniently trap-doored Sho, she ripped something out of Kanba, and the scene faded to black. But in the second episode, we see Kan on the train and he looks exhausted. It makes sense that she'd need some sort of energy source to revive Himari but if she's completely healed, why would there be a continued need for the survival strategy?

As a survival strategy, finding a constantly renewable source of energy is a good strategy and Kan is a teenage boy. :heh: With a less than pure focus on his little sister. And if you carry the emotions as energy/power to the next logical step, it makes sense that Ringo's diary would be an object of power. That's some pretty intense emotion accumulated over ages of stalking. I wonder if it's the emotion itself or the shade of taboo attached to it. That might be why she can get energy from Kan and not Sho.

It's too early to tell what it all means but that scene is super suggestive.

Malkuth

2011-07-15, 22:56

Thanks for the clarification, 8thSin... in between, I was half-joking when cursing the translation, despite prefering to leave the engrish intact in subs.

Funkatron

2011-07-15, 22:59

My theory on the penguin drum:

Its a "Destiny" Note of sorts, this show's quivilent of a Death note, except it effects the future instead of killing. More speculation when more clues arrive

wandering-dreamer

2011-07-15, 23:06

BTW, "Mawaru (spin)" part is also written illegally as 「輪る」, which is wheel/cycle. In fact, the title was frequently written as 「廻るピングドラム」 online before it started to show in TV guides. I would say the best translation for the line is "Revolving Penguin Drum" rather than "Spinning" for "Mawaru" because of kanji.

Some 2ch speculators say the title is actually "Warping Drum", since that kanji also reads as "Wa", but we'll have to see what happens in following eps to determine if that's the case.

Ah, I was wondering what "mawaru" meant, when I tried plugging it into google translate I actually got "evil" but that must've been another kanji, thanks for the clarification!

risingstar3110

2011-07-16, 01:37

On ep 2....

Hmmm.....

I want the PENGUINS, I want the penguins,i want the penguins. No,buy me the penguins,i only want the penguins. Nooooooooo ;_; *throw tantrum*

Ep 2 is more fun than i expects,and the stalking incidents were hilarious with Mr. Number 1 and Number 2 (did #2 eat ice-cream in the end before swallow the whole box?). The stalking girl is totally unexpected. My favourite characters in order are still: the Penguin princess,#2, Himari, #1&3, the stalking girl, Sho, Kanba

sa547

2011-07-16, 02:42

I recall that Ringo means Apple, and there's also an apple in both OP and ED. But one has to notice closely the laptop the brothers were using while directing their penguin proxies to just about anywhere.

It's a Macbook running OSX.

Anh_Minh

2011-07-16, 02:49

He wish it was a blessing. But the fact is they were giving this "reward" for a price they did not even know of.

It's like someone giving me a million dollars and say "on, by the way, accepting this money means you need to do something for me. I will tell you want it is later".
Except instead of a measly one million dollars, it's the life of your sister that no human doctor on Earth could save.

Himari's new life isn't free. The worst thing is we don't actually know what the price is going to be, and that's scary. Especially since her continued existence needs to be maintained... This means at any time, Himari can become dead again if the Princess is so inclined.

All the more reason to show more hustle. Being curious, even suspicious about what's happening is one thing. I wouldn't blame him for wanting to get away with as little damage as possible. But what he's doing is dragging his feet instead of clinging to the miracle as hard as he can.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-16, 03:03

Except instead of a measly one million dollars, it's the life of your sister that no human doctor on Earth could save.

Himari isn't SAVED. Her continued existence is under the whim of the Princess. The second the brothers disobey orders, the deal is off and Himari dies.

And we don't even know what it means to follow her orders.

Kanon

2011-07-16, 03:07

Am I the only one that saw that as some sort of rape symbolism? I wondered whether Princess was ripping out energy or *coughEssensecough* but the first episode was inconclusive. In the first episode, she stripped naked, a penguin conveniently trap-doored Sho, she ripped something out of Kanba, and the scene faded to black. But in the second episode, we see Kan on the train and he looks exhausted. It makes sense that she'd need some sort of energy source to revive Himari but if she's completely healed, why would there be a continued need for the survival strategy?

As a survival strategy, finding a constantly renewable source of energy is a good strategy and Kan is a teenage boy. :heh: With a less than pure focus on his little sister. And if you carry the emotions as energy/power to the next logical step, it makes sense that Ringo's diary would be an object of power. That's some pretty intense emotion accumulated over ages of stalking. I wonder if it's the emotion itself or the shade of taboo attached to it. That might be why she can get energy from Kan and not Sho.

It's too early to tell what it all means but that scene is super suggestive.

I'm not sure I'd call it rape, but I do think she ripped out some of Kanba's life energy or whatever you want to call it in order to sustain Himari's life (and her own). If The Princess of Crystal can't find another supply of energy, obviously Kanba will die and so will Himari eventually. I don't think Survival Stratagy implies reproduction as others suggested, but simply... survival. The Penguin Drum is the device that will enable everyone to survive (or maybe only the Princess of Crystal or the penguins, if she turns out to be evil).

As for why Kanba kissed Himari, I think he's in love with her and always has been, plain and simple.

Shiroth

2011-07-16, 03:21

Himari isn't SAVED. Her continued existence is under the whim of the Princess. The second the brothers disobey orders, the deal is off and Himari dies.
Personally i think it's a bit early in the series to 100% believe everything the princess says. Who knows what is true and what's not at the moment.

As for why Kanba kissed Himari, I think he's in love with her and always has been, plain and simple.
I wouldn't be surprised, though the princess stealing his heart might have something to do with Kanba kissing her. I just think there's a bigger purpose and don't think it has anything to do with stealing his life energy.

4Tran

2011-07-16, 03:38

The only question isn't if the Princess is the enemy, but if there is an even worse enemy than her that the brothers had to worry about.

Because I once thought that Ringo might have a chance of being an ally. But now... I am not so sure.
She's threatening them so blatantly that it seems unlikely they'll be allies. Heck, she hasn't even offered her name yet. Then again, we have almost no context for determining what's going on or what the show is about yet.

Hmm, I remember reading somewhere that they're called WH, which can be pronounced pretty similar to Double-H, so which is correct? Is there an official name somewhere?
It's WH, but Himari pronounces it "Double H".

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/4Tran/Penguindrum/WH_Magazine.jpg

Another question: this week's Survival Strategy meeting doesn't include the last scene where Himari takes sth out of Kan's chest, so does that mean it didn't happen? Or they just didn't show us?
It's possible that she already got what she needed from Kanba.

You're not the only one that cheered :p. Ikuhara sure does love his flower frames, so it was a nice return to see them again. We've been getting a lot of early Utena camera work since the first episode, so it's only right that he starts to use some of his other trademarks.
Well, he seemed to be moving away from a lot of Utena's themes and art design, so I thought that he might drop the roses as well. Guess not. :)

Well, there was some speculation going on that the brothers - and especially Kanba - are the trash. The Crystal Princess does call them lowlifes who will never amount to anything after all.
If the brothers are supposed to be WH, then that means that they'd be tossing themselves in the trash. That doesn't seem like a very elegant interpretation to me.

Episode two, while being seemingly comedic at first glance, is actually much darker throughout. Even before the ending.

Morality is the theme of this weeks episode. Is it morally right to stalk someone you love, even going as far as tapping their home? Is it morally right to do some very unlawful things in order to insure that your sister lives, including (but apparently not limited to) stalking a stalker, hacking personal information, breaking some girls heart, and even invading their privacy? Is it morally right to skip your school so you could use a camera to look at school girls panties?

Is it morally right to have invisible penguins do this (http://i.imgur.com/Lqcuj.jpg) to unaware girls?
If the brothers are fine with breaking less important laws, are they then also willing to break more serious ones? It's possible the the whole excursion is a lie and that the Penguin hat is only using it to gain greater power over the brothers.

I thought that this episode was great, not as awe inspiring as the first, but I still glued to the screen, and is still wanting to rewatch it again.
Really? Not saying this show isn't fun to watch and has great humor, but I wouldn't say it's the funniest this year.
Humor works differently for different people, and I happen to find most anime humor unfunny. Episode 2 really was the funniest anime for me this year. Albeit I haven't tried watching very many comedies either, but most of them have left me cold anyways.

As much has I enjoyed the having their back and forth, I did feel bad for Himari thinking the two were becoming delinquents :heh: I think the two shined best when they were mostly at disagreement at what needed to be done to save their sister. Kanba is obviously more willing to cross the line to save her, while Sho has his doubts. I actually like Sho more, since while being a bit of a wuss, is more level headed and his moral compass isn't that broken (but with this show you can never know right :p?)
At some point, they're going to have to spill the beans to Himari, and that episode is going to be fun to watch. Shouma is less useful than Kanba in stalking Ringo, but without him, who knows how far Kanba would have gone?

That being said, I don't think mess would be an accurate way to describe it, since the show clearly had much thought gone into making it. In these two episodes, I don't think I've seen it more made out of things that look cool for the sake of looking cool as much as being carefully placed an made (to look meaningful and cool)
There's certainly a strong sense of purpose imported to just about all the elements in Penguindrum - from the music to the sound design to the writing to the plot and so forth. Given the attention to detail, I don't think there's anything in the show that isn't there for a specific reason.

My favorite part of the episode (http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2011/07/15/i-am-number-one/)

Kanba's penguin through and through. Spread girl legs open and stares at their panties without flinching :heh:
My favorite was simply the reveal of what Kanba intended to do with the tape. It's classic Ikuhara misdirection: imply something, and then subvert it with something else that works even better. Just a wonderful piece of direction.

The only thing that I'm fairly certain of in Penguindrum right now is that the overall plot is going to be relatively unimportant. Instead, the show is going to mostly be about the themes and the character stories. Outside of that, I really have no clue what's going to happen next. Heck, I'm not sure what genre the show is in: Mystery? Fantasy? Comedy? Science Fiction? Anybody have any ideas?

Anh_Minh

2011-07-16, 03:47

Himari isn't SAVED. Her continued existence is under the whim of the Princess. The second the brothers disobey orders, the deal is off and Himari dies.
She's less dead now than she was on that hospital bed.

And we don't even know what it means to follow her orders.
That's not a problem that can be solved by whining and then going along anyway. They've basically got two paths:
- call the Hat's bluff, and see what happens to Himari.
- obey while trying to find out more.

Reckoner

2011-07-16, 03:55

It seems the big overarching theme of this anime is going to be fate. Basically how each character deals with the cards they're dealt with in life, how they perceive their fortunes, and what they try to do. Do they accept fate? Fight against it? Try to change it?

Of course there are many other interesting things going on as well. I find it extremely impressive how packed these two episodes were with themes ranging from more light hearted to heavy, and all the while making it an extremely entertaining and fun ride.

Penguindrum is yet another example to me of just how important the director of an anime is. Good writers are necessary too, but the director is what makes the series shine. Ikuhara is just absolutely brilliant here.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-16, 04:22

The only thing that I'm fairly certain of in Penguindrum right now is that the overall plot is going to be relatively unimportant. Instead, the show is going to mostly be about the themes and the character stories. Outside of that, I really have no clue what's going to happen next. Heck, I'm not sure what genre the show is in: Mystery? Fantasy? Comedy? Science Fiction? Anybody have any ideas?
Penguin.

No, seriously, the "Penguin Genre" is in the process of becoming a minor meme.

Ravenblitz

2011-07-16, 04:30

http://i.imgur.com/kXLF2l.jpg (http://imgur.com/kXLF2)

Shiroth

2011-07-16, 04:39

^Would love a clean version.

Ziziphus

2011-07-16, 08:36

It's WH, but Himari pronounces it "Double H".

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/4Tran/Penguindrum/WH_Magazine.jpg
Oh yeah, thanks for the answer.

Outside of that, I really have no clue what's going to happen next. Heck, I'm not sure what genre the show is in: Mystery? Fantasy? Comedy? Science Fiction? Anybody have any ideas?
I think it's supernatural, comedy, and maybe mystery.

sapphire-pyro

2011-07-16, 09:20

LOLz to the penguin genre idea.

Loved the second episode as much as the first one~ (http://daydream-sanctuary.blogspot.com/2011/07/mawaru-penguindrum-episode-2.html) I'm most interested in knowing more about the brothers, hehe. I wonder how similar their penguins are to their sibling partners, teehee

@Ravenblitz
Thanks for the image xD

Kirarakim

2011-07-16, 09:26

I think it's supernatural, comedy, and maybe mystery.

I expect it to get darker as the show goes on. There are already some dark moments like the ending of episode 1 and the whole stalking thing with Ringo.

Although I hope the comedy continues as well. :D

Kaioshin Sama

2011-07-16, 10:56

Well I gave Sacred Seven another episode to hook me because I trusted it would, so I figure I might as well afford Mawaru Penguin Drum the same chance and allow it a second episode to try and get me on board. What a difference a second episode can make sometimes.

Mind you starting off with a shot of a toilet was not at all what I was expecting and seemed to bode poorly at the outset.:heh:
As about anyone in the world watching this show could have expected it doesn't take long into the episode before we are treated to that transformation sequence again (the whole thing....), but this time the two brothers are actually formally given the quest to get the Penguindrum along with instructions on where to start. HUGE!

Honest to god that's all I needed to get into this show, just one clear goal. I suppose having to wait until episode 02 for it isn't terribly bad and my fears that the show would meander were entirely mis-founded. Couldn't be much happier at this revelation.

Another thing I liked about this episode and that was a huge improvement over episode 1 for me is that we get a little more reflection from our two brothers and find that they are indeed very aware of how bizarre the situation has gotten with Himari's resurrection. That kind of makes it a little easier for me to get into the weirdness of this shows premise that we have a grounding factor in our main characters such as that.

Some of the humour in this episode was actually pretty amusing. I'm not normally a huge fan of slapstick, but the stuff with the penguins on the train got some chuckles and our brown haired bro using his handsomeness to diffuse the situation (complete with roses in the background) got a big laugh from this admitted comedy snob.

One other thing I noted is that while Ikuhara has a clear style that permeates this show (especially during the transformation and subway sequences), it's not an overly distracting style (like say Shinbo's during the Madoka fight I saw in episode 02 last night) even at it's most prevalent. I can appreciate the way the backgrounds are done without having it distract from the actual dialogue or plotline of the episode.

Just an overall much better episode than the first one for me. I barely felt that sense of detachment and like I was going to have to familiarize myself with the director to get any of this. By the end of the second episode there's even a subplot developing with Ringo turning out to be stalking someone and going to great lengths to try to impress him. I actually want to see where this is going now, whereas at the end of the first episode I was all kinds of ready to not bother anymore.

Arabesque

2011-07-16, 11:58

Really happy to see you enjoying this Kaioshin :)If the brothers are fine with breaking less important laws, are they then also willing to break more serious ones? It's possible the the whole excursion is a lie and that the Penguin hat is only using it to gain greater power over the brothers. I would have to say that Kanba would be willing to do whatever it takes to keep his sister alive, even murder I think. Sho on the other hand might be less inclined to do so, going by what we seen in this episode.Humor works differently for different people, and I happen to find most anime humor unfunny. Episode 2 really was the funniest anime for me this year. Albeit I haven't tried watching very many comedies either, but most of them have left me cold anyways.Well, I thought that Level E is the best comedy for this year, though I understand that comedy is a strange thing with people. I did think the episode was funny as well, just not what I would call the funniest this year is all :pAt some point, they're going to have to spill the beans to Himari, and that episode is going to be fun to watch. Shouma is less useful than Kanba in stalking Ringo, but without him, who knows how far Kanba would have gone?Fun doesn't begin to cover it :heh:

That's a good question I think. Sure, Kanba came out looking more competent (getting the radios, using the penguins, marking them etc.) at the job (though in retrospect, maybe it's better that Sho wasn't that good. After all, they were stalking and spying on a girls school. Says a lot about what sort of character Kanba is if he's this good and ready at spying at girls :heh:) but Sho being the more level headed and cautious of the two helps him not be too hasty.There's certainly a strong sense of purpose imported to just about all the elements in Penguindrum - from the music to the sound design to the writing to the plot and so forth. Given the attention to detail, I don't think there's anything in the show that isn't there for a specific reason.Absolutely, the music especially. I think what's the most telling is that in this season, you have another show, Mayo Chiki!, which has music composed by Yukari Hashimoto, the same as this show, and while both scores are pretty distinctive and fit each show, the actual placement and usage of the tracks is worlds apart.

I think it's clear that having Ikuhara so deeply involved in the making of the show helped it have a more ''united'' direction in all aspects, so that not one thing is going it's own direction.My favorite was simply the reveal of what Kanba intended to do with the tape. It's classic Ikuhara misdirection: imply something, and then subvert it with something else that works even better. Just a wonderful piece of direction.Yeah that was a good scene as well.

Bah, who am I kidding? There wasn't a thing I didn't pick as a favorite in the episode! :p

Well, the start I could've done without :heh: Mystery? Fantasy? Comedy? Science Fiction? Anybody have any ideas?All of the above :heh:?

duckroll I think would have a better idea of the author, but since Ikuhara is so involved in all stages of the production, I think it might be more visual based more than anything.

It seems the big overarching theme of this anime is going to be fate. Basically how each character deals with the cards they're dealt with in life, how they perceive their fortunes, and what they try to do. Do they accept fate? Fight against it? Try to change it?I think so as well, and I think that the answer will be different for each character.

Penguindrum is yet another example to me of just how important the director of an anime is. Good writers are necessary too, but the director is what makes the series shine. Ikuhara is just absolutely brilliant here.Hm, I agree with you, but I think that it could also work the other way round.

Having a good, solid core story for an anime can make it excellent even with traditional or even orthodox directing style (Beast Player Erin being the prime recent example)

I think what this shows is by having a director take a more active, involved role in all aspects of the anime ends up giving a more focused work. The same result can be done with competent-to-excellent team work, but both are very hard to achieve.

Kirarakim

2011-07-16, 12:12

That's a good question I think. Sure, Kanba came out looking more competent (getting the radios, using the penguins, marking them etc.) at the job (though in retrospect, maybe it's better that Sho wasn't that good. After all, they were stalking and spying on a girls school. Says a lot about what sort of character Kanba is if he's this good and ready at spying at girls :heh:) but Sho being the more level headed and cautious of the two helps him not be too hasty.

I actually wonder if Kanba has done something similar before and not for the purpose of saving his sister. He was almost too competent at it.

I definitely came out with more admiration of Sho feeling bad about what he was doing.

Soconfused

2011-07-16, 12:30

Well, that was unexpected, bitch is out of her mind. This should be interesting. :3

also, more anime should just man up and give us the panty shots.

Shiroth

2011-07-16, 14:49

also, more anime should just man up and give us the panty shots.
I much prefer the way Penguindrum goes about panty shot scenes. There's so much life in those scenes then the typical fanservice we're used to seeing these days.

Flower

2011-07-16, 14:50

Ok ... after ep 2 I can say that I will keep following the show for now ... but ... erm ... it's still weird. :heh:

Kirarakim

2011-07-16, 15:09

I much prefer the way Penguindrum goes about panty shot scenes. There's so much life in those scenes then the typical fanservice we're used to seeing these days.

I have an aversion to all things fanservice but there isn't really anything all that bad here. And the humor that came out of those scenes was really well done in my opinion. It didn't just feel like a panty shot scenes for the sake of panty shots.

Irenicus

2011-07-16, 15:17

Seriously what the hell is a penguin drum...?

Excellent episode though. A seamless balance of comedy, mystery, stalking, crazy transformation sequence (it's almost magical girl-y), penguin spy action (what is this, Madagascar?), and even a hint of moral dilemma.

Albeit, these girls have bad tastes. Shouma is so cute, can't they see that?

Anh_Minh

2011-07-16, 15:21

Seriously what the hell is a penguin drum...?

From the name, I guess a drum made with penguin hide.

Albeit, these girls have bad tastes. Shouma is so cute, can't they see that?

He's lacking in self-confidence.

Shiroth

2011-07-16, 15:25

Shouma is so cute, can't they see that?
I can. He's adorable.

Flower

2011-07-16, 15:26

Seriously what the hell is a penguin drum...?

:heh:

Perhaps there is a reason why this ineffable mystery has been commissioned to the silence of the grave? ;)

Irenicus

2011-07-16, 15:32

He's lacking in self-confidence.
And Kanba's got it...

A ladies' man who's actually absolutely in love (?) with someone special is an utterly dangerous creature. He'll seduce you for everything he needs then throws you aside without sparing a thought. But I guess that only adds enticing thorns to the roses around his frame. *_*

Perhaps there is a reason why this ineffable mystery has been commissioned to the silence of the grave?
Well let the speculation begin! I suck at speculating so I'll leave it to you guys. Is it a drum made of penguin hide? Is it that dangerous diary? Is it a girl's heart in (stalkery) love? Are we gonna see these two boys doing missions collecting hearts/spirit/crystal/penguin hide/[censored] like some mahou shoujo?

Flower

2011-07-16, 15:40

....Well let the speculation begin! I suck at speculating so I'll leave it to you guys....

Unfortunately I am in the same boat.

Nevertheless I will guess that the penguin drum is the stalker girl herself. No basis for the guess though. Just guessing. :p

Kirarakim

2011-07-16, 15:48

Albeit, these girls have bad tastes. Shouma is so cute, can't they see that?

I agree, I am a girl and I prefer Shouma. He has the cuter penguin too hmph!

Although I do enjoy Kanba as a character so far. There is something mysterious about him. I just want to know more about him.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2011-07-16, 16:01

Albeit, these girls have bad tastes. Shouma is so cute, can't they see that?

His twin brother literally steals the limelight. You answers your own question; it isn't that Shouma doesn't have good points, it's that he gets overshadowed so he couldn't be seen.

As the audience we got the advantage of the camera focusing on Shouma. But for the characters in the show itself they don't get that angle.

Anh_Minh

2011-07-16, 16:37

His twin brother literally steals the limelight. You answers your own question; it isn't that Shouma doesn't have good points, it's that he gets overshadowed so he couldn't be seen.

As the audience we got the advantage of the camera focusing on Shouma. But for the characters in the show itself they don't get that angle.

Well, he looked unpopular even before his brother saved him. (Maybe the fact he didn't have a ready excuse for the "groping" played against him.)

Tetsuo00

2011-07-16, 16:56

Its simple. He lacked confidence.

SwiftStrike

2011-07-16, 18:04

Unfortunately I am in the same boat.

Nevertheless I will guess that the penguin drum is the stalker girl herself. No basis for the guess though. Just guessing. :p

heh, IMO I thought the diary was suspicious since it had more writing after, she stamped it (:O) (and they "stalked" her for the whole day where she never wrote in it - or maybe it wasn't shown/I never noticed..)

I like the way they tell the story.

letsza

2011-07-16, 19:26

here are some Translation of Ringo's Diary :
---------------------------
Today, i got out to buy some ingredients for Mom.
I already knew what we are having today, when i saw the buylist
I hurried ran Home after, cause I was very hungry !!
I meeted with Tabuki-kun, at that time that my belly maked a noice
--------------------------

The Teachers in the School gave us the order
to make I poster of the Theme : "Traffic Accident".
They said that we should get some good Informations for it.
Because of that I walked to the cross-road
and meet Tabuki-kun there.
[picture of that pole with red-light (omg can't think of that word now)
--------------------------

Today my father said that he saw an Alien.
Does Aliens realy exisist ?
I mean, Ghost are scary,
But Aliens are way scarier.
--------------------------

[Picture of a Fish (its a fish shaped Taiyaki)]
Today we had delicious Taiyaki, mine was
a Red-bean one, it was stuffed so much that it nearly exploded.
My mom had one with Red Bean and Masha (Green Tea Cream)
I asked her for a taste, because it looks so yummy.
But well it was realy bitter.
I realy can't understand Alduts.
[Picture of her kira kira Mother]
--------------------------

Today we had a Math-test.
Well, Substracting was very hard.
Sometimes it had fragments left, some time not.
(I realy don't know some other good words for it , sr)
I don't even want to think about Fractions.
I realy should study harder.
[Picture of a Pencil]
--------------------------

I helped my Mom with household, because today was a Holiday.
I washed the bath and did some Laundry.
Ah, i found 300yen under The Sofa.
Lucky !!
[Picture of herself kira kira]
--------------------------

Today at the way home, i met a small little puppy dog.
It was realy adorable and I realy wanted to adopt it.
But well, my parents wont alow it anyways.
[Picture of a dog and a Dog Face]
(seriously thats a Cat and a Pikachu face !!)
--------------------------

Tommorow we have a Gym-test and i must do some pull-ups on the pipe.
I tried very hard, but can't do it at all.
Good that i became some advice from Tabuki-kun.
This time i will pass for sure !!
Yeah, and today we had training too.
--------------------------

I found a swallow's nest in Ikebukuro.
Tabuki was realy suprised when I showed him the Picture.
[gg subs]
[Picture of a kira kira Swallow]
--------------------------

It suddenly began to rain today.
I din't even stop stop after the School.
What should i do, i din't brought my umbrella today.
But good that Tabuki-kun let me under his.

[Picture of a Umbrella, Hearts and Her kira kira]
--------------------------

I saw a werd looking Tree on the the way home today.
It has some orange tasty looking fruits on it, so i tried some.
When I asked Tabuki-kun about it he said it a Gummi-Tree (silver-berry).
Thas my Tabuki-kun for ya,he's realy smart [hearts]

[picture of a failed swallow
and that Tree]

our Translator translated it in Thai and I changed it to English again.
Hope my English is not that bad :heh: