SHAFT: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot [Archive]

Supramax

2010-04-28, 09:27

What is your opinion on Shaft(an animating company who made animes such as Zetsubou Sensei, Negima, and Bakemonogatari)?
I personally dislike Shaft alot. I feel they try to hard to create a certain feeling or atmosphere when they animate things and it ends up ruining animations. It worked for certain animes like Zetsubou Sensei, but as some of you may know, it really failed in animes like Negima. I'm curious about the opinions of many other people who watch anime so I look forward too your posts.

Marcus H.

2010-04-28, 09:40

I honestly don't like the "experimental" or "avant-garde" animation styles they enforce into their works. Especially in Negima, where it tends to get cluttered because of the unusual framing and scene transition effects.

But they also have some pluses, one of which is their ability to use computerized graphics to make effects at par with JC Staff's. Also, when done correctly, they can use the styles they enforce to change the way a certain story is told. Bakemonogatari is one good example, but sometimes it doesn't give out consistently good reactions.

I can therefore they that their style can make or break an anime series.

DragoonKain3

2010-04-28, 09:47

I personally don't like Shaft as an animation studio; I groan every time I find an interesting upcoming series only to find out Shaft is animating it. Too many still shots, reused animation, and visuals so weird that it forces you to focus on it, taking your attention away from the story rather than enhancing it.

Admittedly, their quirky style really fits in with equally as quirky works like SZS and Arakawa under the Bridge. But I personally find EF to be a major fail because it was done in extreme 'Shaft style' (why couldn't they have done it more normally like REC was?). Same thing with Maria Holic and Bakemonogatari, animation wise. Heck, I think at one point I said in the latter, that I find the series more enjoyable by just focusing ALL my attention on the subs and ignoring everything else that comes on screen.

Vexx

2010-04-28, 11:00

Very mixed. Some stuff they've (Shinbou and Shaft) done has been brilliant, others were quite disrespectful to the material. They don't seem to know when and how far to apply their ideas in adapting material. Ego seems to be over-riding the craftsmanship at times.

They're also an utter disaster in terms of bringing a remotely finished product to the broadcast season. All the way back to Tsukuyomi Moon Phase, they've failed in time, budget, and outsourcing management and had to 'fix it in the DVD'. They *do* fix it (often beautifully), but they'd be toasted alive in a milestone project/design environment. Anyone remember the "still frame" fight scenes in Moon Phase's broadcast (rectified in the DVD)? Part of that was the outsourcing but that is *still* their responsibility. We see it in their series over and over again, most recently in Bakemonogatari in the latter episodes (where they actually apologize in the first frames).

What they do well and what they fail at - is also a very personal opinion. For example, I thought Bakemonogatari (once its finished properly) is brilliant, others hate it. The broadcast version was a mess though. Hidamari Sketch -- the same: messy broadcast but the style works very well (arty art school) in the finished version. Both Moon Phase and PPD in *finished* form are quite nice.

Negima!? was appalling but more because of the alternate history adaptation and I can blame the Ken A. as much as Shaft for that (kind of like slapping the crap out of Lucas would make some Star Wars fans happier).

Bocom

2010-04-28, 11:08

SHAFT+Shinbou = Awesome.

Other SHAFT are usually nice as well.

justsomeguy

2010-04-28, 11:40

If Shaft gets rid of that Shinbo guy and hires managers and animators so that they can actually finish their shows on time, then they would dramatically improve as a studio.

Pocari_Sweat

2010-04-28, 12:17

Leaning more towards liking Shaft, but some of their approaches and flaws irritate me.

I give them credit for trying to be different - trying being the keyword. Their avant-garde, arthouse approach to things is a fresh change in comparison to the high-quality cutesy/"moe" approach we get from say studios like KyoAni or J. C. Staff. They even try to do "fanservice" shows in a quirky, unorthodox way (e.g. Hidamari Sketch, Bakemonogatari) Unfortunately, it seems to fail just as much as it succeeds.

For me, ef tale of memories is the pinnacle Shaft anime. Here, the animation style really worked, alongside a superb musical track. It was like watching an art-film more than an anime. Also had some very memorable scenes, which I will probably always remember (e.g. Miyako phone scene). One of the best VN adaptations I would say.

On the other side of the coin, Dance in the Vampire Bund was a disaster.

However, as a lot of people know, SHAFT is infamous for its failure to stick to schedules and have poor time management skills. Recent example would be episode 10 in Bakemonogatari, where the 2nd half of the episode might as well been a slideshow. They did however fix it up on the Blu-ray/DVD version (and funny enough was their highest selling Vol.)

There is also an ongoing rumour that Shaft trolls 2ch for some of their material (as well as being on drugs). "Nice boat" from ef ep 1, "Gaijin" shot from Kanbaru/Araragi in ep9, some of the Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei jokes... yea I'm beginning to think more and more that this is true.

So yeh, half the time Shaft get things right and the other half of the time they get it wrong. Luckily, this season's Shaft show, Arakawa Under the Bridge, they are doing it right. Initially I disliked the 1st episode, but the next two is humorous enough.

Raiga

2010-04-28, 13:55

I consider myself a Shaft fan. Some stuff is hit-or-miss but I prefer the wacky experimental stuff to just a plain straightforward adaptation. Makes it more interesting, and makes it feel like there was something gained from watching the anime as opposed to reading the manga or novel.

(Somebody's going to misinterpret that sentence and get angry at me so let me see if I can be clearer... as in, there was worth in animating it, more so than just seeing the manga except it's moving, colored, and has sound. Like, really taking advantage of what you can do in animated form that you couldn't do in the novel or the manga. Not saying the adaptation is necessarily better or that it's not worth reading the novel/manga as well, just saying that I like it if the anime also tries to be itself as an anime... sort of... hard to explain)

ANYWAY. I like Shaft.

Greenish Growth

2010-04-28, 14:05

I usually don't care for SHAFT projects. I figured out that my main problems are these:

1. Their animation style is frequently too distracting to me. So I often watch SHAFT anime thinking more about the PRESENTATION of the story instead of the story itself.

2. I often don't like them because the characters often don't get that many good character shots and/or include their backgrounds. So instead of getting character shots that I like I see them from their mouth downward, only half of their face, from very far away or only in silhouette.

But that's just my personal preference. :p

Lord of Fire

2010-04-28, 15:59

Though I haven't seen all of their stuff, I have seen quite a few shows of them and I loved them all to some degree (IMO, Vampire Bund wasn't bad, but it took a while to really get interesting).

All of their stuff I've seen so far was where Shinbou was at the helm and I must admit that he uses a very interesting style. I also see SHAFT as a studio who loves to think 'out of the box': sketchy art style and animation, lots of weird shit going on (especially in comedies) and more often than not, walls of text.

I'll admit that they have a style that doesn't leave for a middle ground – you either love it or hate it. I personally love it and time and again, I find myself awestruck by what they've come up this time. Big advantage is that it's instantly recognizable and may have well become inspiration for other shows (BakaTest had pretty much all the ingredients for it to be a SHAFT production, but it was done by a different studio).

So yeah, assuming I don't change my mind as I watch more of their stuff, I can honestly call myself a SHAFT fan. They have yet to truly disappoint me.

0utf0xZer0

2010-04-28, 16:11

Tsukuyomi Moon Phase, EF, and Bakemonogatari are all shows I'd consider to be in my top ten, so I guess you could say I'm a Shaft fan. EF in particular really impressed me, I felt the abstract visuals allowed the director to portray what the characters were going through in a much more intimate manner than a conventional style would, and that sort of intimacy is something that most visual novel adaptations tend to lose in the shift from first to third person perspective. Plus, some of the show's pivotal "wham" scenes like the cell phone scene would have just become narm (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Narm) otherwise.

All this being said, I don't always agree with Shaft's choices on how to execute scenes - stuff like the "black" frames in Bakemonogatari just strike me as a bad idea. That's one of the reasons why I actually like Shin Oonuma (EF)'s direction better than than the better known Akiyuki Shinbo's, I feel he has a better sense of how not to go overboard. In general I find Shaft has far more hits than misses for me though. My girlfriend is also a big Shaft fan, probably much more so than I am. My brother, not quite so much.

Edit:

(BakaTest had pretty much all the ingredients for it to be a SHAFT production, but it was done by a different studio).

BakaTest is directed by Shin Oonuma, who previously worked at Shaft. In fact, I'm not actually sure if he was at Shaft or Silver Link when he directed Bakemonogatari episode 9 (Silver Link being one of the studios that worked on Bakemonogatari with Shaft).

Daniel E.

2010-04-28, 16:35

Bakemonogatari is one good example, but sometimes it doesn't give out consistently good reactions.

Bake started out with a lot of "shafteness" in it's earlier episodes (Hiitagi Crab), but eventually cutted down on it as the show moved on.

Can't really count myself as a fan of this style, specially when they resort to images of real people mixed in with the animated ones.

Marion

2010-04-28, 17:06

I can't say I'm a big fan. Biggest reason is that the company is majorly grounded in adaptions, rather than anything original (I think their last original series was This Ugly Yet Beautiful World and that came out over 6 years ago. Everything else I found was adaptations) which is probably why they're so popular. And frankly I'm not a big Shinbou fan since the direction of the series he's in charge of is either a hit or a miss and considering he's pretty much the lead director of a huge majority of Shaft's recent works it isn't easy to avoid him.

However, besides that what I hate about SHAFT is the constant delays on many projects and the fact that they actually go out and willingly air unfinished episodes of their series. I'm sorry, you can say whatever you want about other animation companies, but at least they actually put out a finished product on the air and meet their deadlines for the most part. I can't recall in my recent memory that Shaft has met their deadline in a long time.

But I will give credit - they are a company that takes risks with what they do. They don't produce series that are too similar to each other and decide to adapt interesting series. Still, like I said before - their works are either hit or miss.

james0246

2010-04-28, 17:34

The first Shaft definitely has greater historical value, but the remake is a far better designed and executed film (which only makes sense considering the credentials (and budget) behind the remake)...

Seriously though, Shaft has always been hit or miss, or even simply hit and miss (sadly more hit and miss...). The visual style is interesting, and the camera work and visual tone/mood can be quite provocative, but too often the episodes/series tend to drag, and the Shaft "style" is often used to simply give the viewer something to look at when nothing truly interesting is occurring on screen (which is a shame, since when this particular style is used correctly, the director(s) attains the highest form of artistic expression in a visual medium: showing, not telling, the story.)

solomon

2010-04-29, 00:39

Shaft=Shinbo

The question is in essence do you like Shinbo.

I like Shaft. They make a name for themselves with a style that sets them apart, very few studios do this in the anime industry.

More specifically, it depends on the work. I can understand how some argue against Shinbo's style in a work like Negima where it can distract from the source material (bad fit).

However, it was an EXCELLENT fit for Sensei and they made some crackerjack anime original eps that were bursting with creativity and fun. Bakemonogatari was another excellent show (overall strong animation helped).

I generally like shaft, I always keep an eye out for em. Still I am very picky about story material, (sorry no cutsey moe or lolis for me) so I can really only endorse Sensei, Bake and the now running Arakawa under the Bridge (which is actually toned down compared to the previous two).

solomon

2010-04-29, 00:42

and the Shaft "style" is often used to simply give the viewer something to look at when nothing truly interesting is occurring on screen (which is a shame, since when this particular style is used correctly, the director(s) attains the highest form of artistic expression in a visual medium: showing, not telling, the story.)

Well when you get right down to it, the essence of anime is going full blown on character details at the expense of actual movement. Shaft shows are arguably par for the course (higher I would argue depending on the show due to strong individual animator participation). Also someone pointed out a problem with too many still shots and shortcuts.

I'd argue at least 85% of all TV anime is still shots/shortcuts and much of it is not well drawn to begin with nor always has unique graphics or rendering so...

zarqu

2010-04-29, 14:04

I don't know, I like SHAFT in decent amounts. Marathoning Zetsubou-sensei would probably be too much.

But you could say I'm definately a fan of Shinbo+SHAFT. Zetsubou-sensei had a huge effect on me: I marathoned first season right after watching all of Naruto and Bleach (I was just starting to watch anime). Needless to say, it blew my mind away (=

I'm a fan, but I can definately understand why some dislike SHAFT.

For me, as I said, avant garde/experimental is best to be enjoyed in digestable doses.

Haak

2010-04-29, 15:31

I like Shaft's arrogant avante-garde touch. I find it charming.

achirist

2010-04-30, 21:57

I will always love Shaft for producing the amazing artistic brilliance that is Ef: a tale of Memories/Melodies. I also adore the visuals and overall style of Bakemonogatari, and Arakawa is developing well. I don't like brainless, artless action anime or the stuff the moe/fanservice studios put out, so Shinbo'd Shaft is right up my alley.

Of course, it should be pointed out that Shinbo did not direct the EF series, Shin Oonuma did.

ReinZwei

2010-04-30, 22:24

Agree with Zargu marathoning shaft will make you faster to bored and groan, limit them and it will add a plus for the good points.

My feelings for the show are mixed, I read what the other have commented and I think the best show I watched and made me to marathon it was only Ef a tale of memo/melo since that was a good show.

synaesthetic

2010-05-01, 00:37

Not terribly fond of them as a studio, but I did enjoy Bakemonogatari. Though mostly because Hiroshi Kamiya is in it. :heh:

brocko

2010-05-01, 01:25

Shows I've seen by Shaft:

- Zetsubou Sensei
- Bakemonogatari
- Ef (both tales)
- Maria Holic
- This Ugly Yet Beautiful World (co-production with Gainax)
- Rec
- Pani Poni Dash

I've enjoyed every single one of those immensely with the exception of This Ugly Yet Beautiful World. So yea lots more hits than misses for me. I can see why people may dislike them, but I'm personally very fond of them so far. (Apart from they're horrible time management of course :heh:)

imbehindyou

2010-05-01, 01:26

I like wacky, weird, whatever stuff out there, but I am generally not a fan of Shaft. I like some of their shows, but that doesn't necessarily make me like the studio too. In my case, I'm biased against Shaft; even if a hypothetical series A was produced EXACTLY the same by both Studio A and by Studio Shaft, I would probably have more favorable opinion of series A if it was done by Studio A. Their past history of [I guess you can call it trolling] has made me distrust Shaft. I really don't feel like checking out DVD/BD ver. of whatever-series-they-decide-to-fix-up-that-was-poorly-animated/done-before.

WanderingKnight

2010-05-01, 14:11

I actually liked Negima!?, much much more than the first series (lol), but then again, I'm not a Negima fanboy and I really don't give a damn about adaptation correctness.

By the way, the person you're thinking about is not SHAFT as a whole, but their main director, Shinbo Akiyuki. I like him a lot and I think he's a fresh breath of air, even though I can see why a lot of people don't like him.

Still, they're not perfect. They've done a lot of crap and SHAFT is probably the studio I've dropped the most series of (since I like them, I usually always try their stuff out).

And Arakawa is awesome.

fertygo

2010-05-01, 14:45

Talking about Shaft, I'm waiting they're working Melodramatic Romance titles like Ef ~ again. Their style work the best at that kind of Genres. But now that Oonuma Shin already leave them, so I doubt its gonna happen.

Kylaran

2010-05-01, 18:21

Tsukuyomi Moon Phase, EF, and Bakemonogatari are all shows I'd consider to be in my top ten, so I guess you could say I'm a Shaft fan. EF in particular really impressed me, I felt the abstract visuals allowed the director to portray what the characters were going through in a much more intimate manner than a conventional style would, and that sort of intimacy is something that most visual novel adaptations tend to lose in the shift from first to third person perspective. Plus, some of the show's pivotal "wham" scenes like the cell phone scene would have just become narm (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Narm) otherwise.

I'm fairly open about my dislike for Shaft amongst those I meet and talk anime about regularly, but I have to admit that these 3 chows are definitely some of the ones I've enjoyed most from Shaft. I think it would be very difficult to imagine these shows done in a different way; however, I do think this statement can be qualified. Tsukuyomi's color palette and its surreal artistic design enhanced the overall story, which I felt needed that eerie feel that Shaft brought to it. Ef and Bakemonogatari both had (rare, in my opinion) good integration of text as part of the visuals. And I think part of it had to do with how the dialogue functioned in both of them.

In general, it just seems to me that a good Shaft anime has to pick qualities in the original work that make it a strong candidate for adaption. Otherwise, the designs simply just get way too distracting. I really didn't like pausing every 2 minutes during Bakemonogatari. D:

pseudonhym

2010-05-01, 22:00

I don't really like how they made the Negima Anime, but they seem to get better on the OVA's and OADs. Zetsubou Sensei was well made, but Bakemonogatari could have been better. Arakawa is good as well. No real idea on how to rate shaft, i just enjoy what I watch as it goes.

seven|x_x

2010-05-01, 22:54

great studio, or greatest studio.

those are the only choices when talking about shaft.

MrTerrorist

2010-05-02, 04:08

ninryu

2010-05-02, 04:26

awesome and madness.

Forsaken_Infinity

2010-05-02, 05:16

Zetsubou had to be done by Shaft.

The rest could have probably been done better.

They are like DEEN. Hit or miss.

Zawa

2010-05-03, 22:33

Shaft's animation style worked best with Zetsubou Sensei, but applying it to every other anime they put out is irritating. I used to like it, but now it just seems like they're trying too hard to be "artsy."

FateAnomaly

2010-05-03, 22:53

I usually don't pay attention to who produce what. But from the examples provided above, i would say its 50/50 for me. While i love Pani Poni Dash, i hated Bakemonogatari. I also like REC but their "artistic" style is not present there.

brocko

2010-05-04, 07:02

I also like REC but their "artistic" style is not present there.

I also think it's been toned down quite a bit in Arakawa Under the Bridge as well. Those two shows I'd like to believe is proof that Shaft do indeed have the ability to ease off their style when they want.

MeoTwister5

2010-05-04, 07:08

I happen to enjoy Shaft more when they tone down their visual assaults to a minimum.

Velsy

2010-05-04, 17:28

Can't really count myself as a fan of this style, specially when they resort to images of real people mixed in with the animated ones.

That annoys me too <.<

Didnt they do that in Tsundere-chans story too ?

wildarmsheero

2010-06-06, 13:47

Hey Anime Suki. I haven't really posted here in forever, but now I need your help!

Basically I'm doing a thing that requires some research, and I need some opinions. Basically, what are your general views on SHAFT X SHINBO shows? I don't need much--a paragraph or so will do--I just need something quotable.

Thanks!

Triple_R

2010-06-07, 11:21

For certain shows like Zetsubou, Maria-Holic and Bakemontagri, the Shaft style is fine since those shows are rather philosophical but when they do it to actions shows like Dance in the Vampire Bund with their Shaft style, their just ruining it.

Agreed. Like most of the top animation studios today, SHAFT has a particular area of expertise, and as long as they stay within that area of expertise, they do some outstanding work. Once they take on projects that are outside of their area of expertise, it tends to fall flat.

Sempie

2010-06-07, 16:38

I personally still like them. Quality work takes time, and in the case of Vampire Bund they just didn't have it. However I beg to differ with the Bakemonogatari delays. yes I was happy scenes were redone. Yes i'm aware they are short on staff. Are they still procrastinating? Yes.

However I still like them for the shows of Zetsubou Sensei, Nastu no Arachi, and Maria Holic.

Xellos-_^

2010-06-07, 16:58

hit and miss

like Ef and baka not so much the others.

but i do wonder what happen if Shinbu direct the Eva remake instead of Anno :D

Eva + Shaft being Shaft

Miyuki-ism

2010-06-08, 08:38

I like SHAFT mostly because they don't bore me, rather than distract me. That's why I like their style.

Xion Valkyrie

2010-06-11, 03:02

I like it. It's quirky but their designs are still aesthetically pleasing. Plus when they do have the budget, they do amazing things with it, and even when they don't, they mask it pretty well.

Dextro

2010-06-12, 18:28

I've got to say I have a really love-hate relationship. I enjoy the art style in stuff like ef and bakemonogatary enough to rank them in the personal top of animes I watched but the constant delays are a pain.

felix

2010-06-12, 22:49

I hate some shows, I like some shows, I love some shows. But that is mostly genre dependent. SHAFT is mostly all about impressing by moving outside the box with out moving outside the box I view them with. Good thing, in our love & profit world.

Mushi

2010-06-13, 15:07

No love for Natsu no Arashi around here? I found that to be highly enjoyable in all it's quirkiness.

The only Shaft series I've struggled with was Ef: Melodies. I thought Memories was brilliant, but Melodies felt a little too over done at times with the melodramatic effects. Still worth watching, it just seemed they were using style for content a bit too much.

I watched Negima!? before knowing anything about the franchise (no preconceived manga/anime notions) and was very impressed with the visual quality of it. I absolutely adore Hidamari Sketch. I haven't seen the DVD version of Bakemonogatari, but I thought the minimalistic approach in some of the broadcast episodes was used effectively and gave it an appropriate look and feel.

So yeah... I like Shaft. :D

Blayne Barudorii

2010-06-15, 10:12

Thus far I like shaft and to me there's enough difference between the different stuff they do with enough variation that it doesn't bother me, as I can't for the most part actually read the source material I can't exactly complain about it if they did somehow "ruin it" in the same vein that I watch Pixar because I know its Pixar I watch Shaft because I know its shaft, if their avant garde surrealism starts to get old on me I switch to a different anime and come back later.

I find watching them for the "Mr. Despair" VA and his quirky Robin Williamsesque brand of crazy reason in of itself to watch it. (I tend to pick my recs based on Seiyuu's followed by character tropes followed by plot)

ahelo

2011-04-14, 08:14

Well PA Works got one so why not SHAFT I guess. Plus a lot of people here love SHAFT amirite? (There was a thread discussing SHAFT a while back but it was mostly for hatred. This as you can say is the official one.)

SHAFT started increasing in popularity in 2004-2006 with series like Tsukuyomi: Moon Phase, Pani Poni Dash and Negima!?. This also the time Shinbo Ayuki came into scene. With Negima, they became a studio to watch out for as people started recognizing their very unique animation style. The popularity of this studio increased even more with big franchises like Hidamari Sketch and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. In 2009, they finally got a big break with Bakemonogatari, with DVD/Bluray sales reaching up to 80,000 per volume. It is even considered a turn/wave in the anime industry as producers realized that blurays sell like hotcakes. Currently they are getting another big break with Puella Magi Madoka Magica, in which preorders are hinting might just sell more than Bakemonogatari.

SHAFT is also a very mysterious studio as no one even knows how many people they are. They are shamefully notorious for finishing their works very late, the most famous one being the Bakemonogatari Episode 10 incident.

SHAFT's biggest appeal(or flaw depending on how you perceive them) is their unique art/animation. Sometimes they just bloster text everywhere or put real life pictures on certain scenes. One of the famous ones is the head-tilting wherein in a scene, all the characters get close ups with their heads tilting. This type of animation has won many fans to consider SHAFT as one of the leading studios today.

So opinions anyone?

Child_of_Sierra

2011-04-14, 09:51

My impression of SHAFT was essentially molded in 2 of their works:

Negima!? which was a big disappointment. Mostly because I was a fan of the original work and felt "cheated" on how different the show turned out to be. . This first impression made me wary everytime they announced a new project since their artistic flavor doesn't always blend well with the source work.

The second show I watched was the Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei series. Here SHAFT's unique style paid off dividends and I really liked how the anime was constructed. I came out of this show thinking that no other studio could have handled the material as well as SHAFT did.

So yeah, in my experience SHAFT can be either a hit or miss depending on how much they insist on going with their style of storytelling with respect to the source material. Sometimes it meshes well at other times...

DonQuigleone

2011-04-14, 11:50

I think Zetsubou Sensei was their first big hit. There's a reason they got 2 sequeals and several OVAs out of it. Kodi Kumeta's acidic humour and simple art style and Shafts humourous insertions and propensity for visual weirdness went together hand in glove.

How well Shaft does related entirely to how well the source material relates their style (as Child of Sierra said). Bakemonogatari and SZS are good examples of this.

Archon_Wing

2011-04-14, 13:43

Can't make schedules, animation is wonky if it's even there and most definitely hit or miss. :heh: They do umm draw really well if they're not high or something though.
Sometimes I like their humor (Mr. Despair, Bake), and sometimes I'm just like wtf is this shit? The EF series is really good, though I hope we could agree.

Most of my respect for them comes from Madoka though, which I did truly enjoy... except those silly fight scenes. :p

DonQuigleone

2011-04-14, 16:14

solomon

2011-04-14, 16:19

Great studio. One of the few in the industry with a distinct house style.

Arabesque

2011-04-14, 17:48

Nice opening post.

A unique studio. Very hat or miss, even for fans. That being said, I do have some form of respect for them respecting creator wishes (Dance in the Vampire Bund, Negima!?). But obviously Can't make schedules, animation is wonky if it's even there yeah :heh: Always shewing more than they can handle, and never stopping even when they screw up. Constantly.

And obviously, when speaking about SHAFT, we need to talk about Shinbo Ayuki. He might not have directed every show the studio had produced, but he's easily the most known director from the studio. I'll give it to him, he's trying to be creative. And at times he can be cleaver, and can produce some excellent results. His problem however is that he ends up falling into being gimmicky, pretentious, or at worst cheap by covering the failings of the animation by being ''artsy''.

Still, he's among the few directors that are trying to actually be experimental, and only him himself can really use this style.Negima!? which was a big disappointment. Mostly because I was a fan of the original work and felt "cheated" on how different the show turned out to be. . This first impression made me wary everytime they announced a new project since their artistic flavor doesn't always blend well with the source work.Didn't KenA ask them not to use the manga material though?Great studio. One of the few in the industry with a distinct house style.Well, what they make is quite easy to tell apart from other things. Though I can't say that is always a good thing lol

Triple_R

2011-04-14, 18:03

On the whole, I like SHAFT.

Right now, they're probably even my favorite anime studio.

SHAFT does have absolutely glaring weaknesses (basically what Archon_Wing rightly pointed out), but they also have some spectacular strengths. And, perhaps most importantly, SHAFT is an anime studio willing to go against convention, and to do bold and challenging projects.

With SHAFT, you almost have to take the good with the bad, I think. For example, their often glorious architectural background displays can't be cheap to produce. So blowing budget on that in the early going (in Bakemonogatari and Madoka Magica) likely results in them having a harder time budgeting for later episodes. :heh:

DonQuigleone

2011-04-14, 18:12

Shaft can also sometimes use their budget quite efficiently.

Best example is their use of "Photoshop filters". They no how to use cheap digital tricks to good effect.

If nothing else, watching a Shaft anime is an experience.

Arabesque

2011-04-14, 18:21

Right now, they're probably even my favorite anime studio.I ...

*hugs*

From the bottom of my heart, Good Luck
SHAFT is an anime studio willing to go against convention, and to do bold and challenging projects. well...

I don't think they really go so much for the ''bold and challenging'' as much as they go for the weird and what has the potential to be wacky. :heh:

Thats not to say they don't attempt to be revolutionary. But tbh, the challenging aspect steams from them trying to coordinate and keeping the production of shows they produce even when they lack the capacity to do so lol
With SHAFT, you almost have to take the good with the bad, I think. For example, their often glorious architectural background displays can't be cheap to produce. So blowing budget on that in the early going (in Bakemonogatari and Madoka Magica) likely results in them having a harder time budgeting for later episodes. :heh:Thats a given with this studio, but that doesn't mean that it's acceptable, or even logical, to have a studio that's small in staff take on 20 projects at a time!

I mean, the backgrounds, budgets and whatnot aren't really the reason you have disasters like the infamous episode in Tsukuyomi, Hidamari Sketch, and Bakemonogatari for example. Those steamed from problems in scheduling, lack of resources etc.

I don't know, if my studio can't really handle multipliable projects at one time and is unable to successfully outsource work correctly in an effective manner, I wouldn't try to get so much work then. Cutting back won't bring about the end of the studio and would at least raise the level of production.

darkchibi07

2011-04-14, 18:21

Triple_R

2011-04-14, 18:50

I ...

*hugs*

From the bottom of my heart, Good Luck

lol :heh:

I appreciate the gesture.

Don't get me wrong, SHAFT definitely can be frustrating at times.

And they're very hit-and-miss.

The thing is, though, that SHAFT does so many different projects, that if a couple of them are stinkers, it's easier for me as a fan to move on from that and just hope that SHAFT gets it right next time (since I won't have to wait long, if at all, for that "next time").

well...

I don't think they really go so much for the ''bold and challenging'' as much as they go for the weird and what has the potential to be wacky. :heh:

Well, they're currently deconstructing magical girl anime. Which, really, is only one step removed from deconstructing moe itself.

That's pretty bold, imo.

Thats not to say they don't attempt to be revolutionary. But tbh, the challenging aspect steams from them trying to coordinate and keeping the production of shows they produce even when they lack the capacity to do so lol
Thats a given with this studio, but that doesn't mean that it's acceptable, or even logical, to have a studio that's small in staff take on 20 projects at a time!

They probably do a bit too much, yeah, but as I argued above, there are benefits to doing a lot.

There's probably a happy medium somewhere between SHAFT's "20 projects at a time", and Kyoto Animation's 2 or 3 per year.

CrowKenobi

2011-04-14, 18:59

Just a FYI: there was an older thread dedicated to Shaft which I merged into this one, the original first post is now post #47. :D

DonQuigleone

2011-04-14, 19:33

Ya know, it's quite amusing how SHAFT's reputation came about ever since Shinbo went on board. Before then, they were your third-rate animation studio and occasionally doing co-productions with Gainax.

Yes Shinbo is Shaft and Shaft is Shinbo. The only other studio i can think of who is so defined by a single person is Studio Ghibli with Hayao Miyazaki. Them and Mamoru Hosoda, and Makoto Shinkai are the only current Anime Directors names I can usually remember. 2 of those are iconic Mecha creators, and the other 3 are involved in high profile films, so Shinbo is a really odd one out.

Shaft didn't produce anything of note before Shinbo came along, though they colloborated with Gainax on a few things, and obviously did a lot in behind the scenes work. Then they kinda exploded producing loads of titles after 2005 or so.

It's an interesting question what kind of role Shinbo plays within Shaft.

Child_of_Sierra

2011-04-14, 19:58

Nice opening post.
Didn't KenA ask them not to use the manga material though?Well, what they make is quite easy to tell apart from other things.

I didn't know that. Why would an author wish his manga to be changed so radically:heh:. Either way my point is that SHAFT's style in this adaptation felt off and ill-advised. As a fair number of people have already said, the success of their work depends on the source material.

Not that their success is limited from adapting works. Madoka showed that they can do original work but that style with witches and battles is imo the weakest link for the franchise as part of a visual medium.

Being an anime original product makes me hesitant to call the show a success until it ends: a fair number of other studios have made anime originals with interesting concepts before. Most turned out good all the way until the ending.

How they handle Madoka's ending is imo the true test of what kind of studio SHAFT is. Afterall, in this industry it isn't a rare talent to be able to throw a lot of stuff together to make something interesting. The real difficult part is to wrap the story up in a logical and satisfying manner.

(Satisfying manner: does not refer to people getting their preferred shipping ending but to the fact that introduced concepts that got me hooked in the beginning are shown as integral to the story. Not something they introduced to get me hooked only to completely forget/drop midway in the show)

Kyuu

2011-04-14, 20:00

I've enjoyed their work on Negima!? It was far far better work than the other Negima series. It was so crappy; I do not even remember the name of that studio.

But yea, when I watched Bakemonogatari, their style does require extra attention. Otherwise, y'might as well watch the series will trippy or something like that.

Malkuth

2011-04-14, 20:12

Let me put it this way... I love SHAFT because of all the things they do wrong, release schedule, unorthodox frames, walls of text, etc. It is refreshing to see something so unconventional break into mainstream studios production and finding imitators :heh:

A tad bit more seriously, they did some pretty good adaptions (story-wise), and added visuals that enhanced the story rather than degrade it.

Akito Kinomoto

2011-04-14, 20:22

The only shows that I'm aware of that I've seen by Shaft, or rather, directed by Shinbo, were Hidamari Sketch and Zetsubou-sensei. Thing is, the Zetsubou-sensei manga alone screams "only Shaft/Shinbo can capture my craziness," and that they do.
Plus when they do have the budget, they do amazing things with it, and even when they don't, they mask it pretty well.The minimalist approach did wonders for Hidamari Sketch, which is otherwise an unremarkable 4-koma.

I've still yet to watch Madoka, but now that I've heard that the liberties they take in quality are marketing gimmicks, maybe I'll just wait for the DVD/Blu Ray releases. It's not like they're going to make us wait an entire year for it to properly finish, right? Right?! (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=10196)

Archon_Wing

2011-04-14, 21:36

Ah, well, for all of their scheduling screw ups, this time it's actually not their fault; channel screwed them over, and they actually have a date of next week. :heh:

Konakaga

2011-04-15, 00:29

Ah, well, for all of their scheduling screw ups, this time it's actually not their fault; channel screwed them over, and they actually have a date of next week. :heh:

It wasn't their fault originally for Bakemonogatari, since they decided on 15 episodes after they already reserved the 12 episode slots and the channel refused to change, which then made it their fault by taking forever on the last three episode :heh::uhoh:.

/On topic: I've only seen Madoka and Bakemonogatari from Shaft both of which have been series I've enjoyed.... wait *looks up list of series by shaft*, Shaft made that series?, I can't believe one of the first animes I remember enjoying when it aired on T.V. many years ago was by Shaft and I didn't realize it until now :eyespin:. Then again remembering how random of show it was it kind of makes sense that Shaft made it... It was Kyattou Ninden Teyandee, or it's english title "Samurai Pizza Cats" :D. Actually looking more it seems it have been their first series actually.

Arabesque

2011-04-15, 00:44

Well, they're currently deconstructing magical girl anime. Which, really, is only one step removed from deconstructing moe itself.

That's pretty bold, imo.Not exactly. While I do get what you mean, the magical girl genre is not synonymous with moe (or at least, it shouldn't be, but then again the definition for moe changes so much) and it had been done before (in fact, Magical girls are sort of the target for break the cutie effect) What's bold about it, or rather, what different from other deconstructions is how far they took the idea of spinning the core idea of the genre.

The really fascinating thing about Madoka is how successful it ended up turning out.They probably do a bit too much, yeah, but as I argued above, there are benefits to doing a lot.

There's probably a happy medium somewhere between SHAFT's "20 projects at a time", and Kyoto Animation's 2 or 3 per year.When they're able to handle it :P I mean, there is little point in trying to produce over your limit if a great deal of what you made ends being sub par right?

But yeah, obviously there needs to be a nice average they can work with. For a small studio, if they put their resources into a limited number of shows, they can even beat KyoAni in terms of quality.

I didn't know that. Why would an author wish his manga to be changed so radically:heh:. Either way my point is that SHAFT's style in this adaptation felt off and ill-advised. As a fair number of people have already said, the success of their work depends on the source material.I think KenA was upset over how awful the first anime was, so he forbade them from touching the manga :X I need to find the source for this though.

I think their success, while obviously relying on the material their working with, also relies on how well they manage to attract attention to their shows.

How they handle Madoka's ending is imo the true test of what kind of studio SHAFT is I don't think there is really a need to see how Madoka ends to figure out what sort of studio SHAFT is.
Afterall, in this industry it isn't a rare talent to be able to throw a lot of stuff together to make something interesting. The real difficult part is to wrap the story up in a logical and satisfying manner.

(Satisfying manner: does not refer to people getting their preferred shipping ending but to the fact that introduced concepts that got me hooked in the beginning are shown as integral to the story. Not something they introduced to get me hooked only to completely forget/drop midway in the show)Absolutely agree on this

Lord of Fire

2011-04-15, 03:35

I can't believe one of the first animes I remember enjoying when it aired on T.V. many years ago was by Shaft and I didn't realize it until now :eyespin:. Then again remembering how random of show it was it kind of makes sense that Shaft made it... It was Kyattou Ninden Teyandee, or it's english title "Samurai Pizza Cats" :D. Actually looking more it seems it have been their first series actually.

Last I checked, SHAFT didn't make SPC. You may want to re-check that list.

Westlo

2011-04-15, 04:52

How they handle Madoka's ending is imo the true test of what kind of studio SHAFT is. Afterall, in this industry it isn't a rare talent to be able to throw a lot of stuff together to make something interesting. The real difficult part is to wrap the story up in a logical and satisfying manner.

Honestly all that is on Gen, he is writing the show after all, but I suppose he won't get the credit or blame for it from most fans and whichever way it falls will all go to SHAFT.

Child_of_Sierra

2011-04-15, 05:22

Honestly all that is on Gen, he is writing the show after all, but I suppose he won't get the credit or blame for it from most fans and whichever way it falls will all go to SHAFT.

If the writer made a poor ending then the studio that went with his script takes the blame as well. I see a significant portion of the market not buying a show that only had a good start and middle.

This is a fairly dark what-if scenario though, I doubt that Madoka will have an ending anywhere as disappointing as Mai Hime. :heh:

Konakaga

2011-04-15, 11:21

Last I checked, SHAFT didn't make SPC. You may want to re-check that list.

According to MAL (http://myanimelist.net/anime/1261/Samurai_Pizza_Cats), Animeplanet (http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/samurai-pizza-cats), and ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=1240) Shaft at least had involvement in the creation of the series, which still makes it their oldest project, since no lists of animes by them show anything prior to 1995 aside from SPC[in 1990~1991] :p.

ahelo

2011-04-15, 11:45

I have three shows that ultimately put SHAFT the best studio for me. Arakawa, Bakemonogatari and currently airing Madoka. I swear ever since Bakemonogatari was made, SHAFT started appealing to me more and more. I even thought the "oops we didn't finish making an episode on time" to be cool. I didn't like the waiting though.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed they don't screw up the ending of Madoka.

Triple_R

2011-11-08, 01:47

Konakaga

2011-11-08, 01:49

christinemarie

2011-11-08, 02:14

Shaft's top five.
1. Puella Magi Madoka Magica
2. Bakemonogatari
3. Hidamari Sketch (staple anime for a very long run, and even the characters are staple in Japan Saimoe.)
4. Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei (the anime that salvaged Shaft's Dignity during 2007, after not so impressive 2006 year.)
5. Arakawa Under the Bridge (almost forgot that this is better than Ef Series, since it features all those likable characters and the best voiced by Maaya Sakamoto so far.)

Shaft's worst
1. Negima!? (not those recent OVAs with some help from Ken Akamatsu himself.)
2. Natsu no Arashi!

I have high hopes for Shaft next year with 2-3 anime movies they would make. No slacking off please.

BaKaBaKaOtaKu

2011-11-08, 02:48

SHAFT is one of a kind studio. they have a reputation of bastardizing schedules and yet they still awe its fans. XDD I'm one of those since madoka. xD

kinda excited for the first madoka film. it's going to be glorious, i hope.

zato_1one

2011-11-08, 07:10

I'm quite sure that Shaft will do anime adaptation for all Monogatari novel. After they've done with three movies of Madoka, they may still do another OVA/spin-off for Madoka. But due to Shaft craziness, I'm sure that we will still see some slice of life/comedy/senseless/absurd series like Hidamari, Denpa Onna, Arakawa or Maria Holic from them. But put Monogatari and Madoka aside, I want to see another season of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. :eyespin:

Echoes

2011-11-08, 09:16

And if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

I'm optimistic about Nisemonogatari. It's based on more source material by the same author, and from what I've seen, it looks awesome. Milking or not, I think there's good reason to believe that it will be at least a good show. I think that's worth trading in a few other shows for; or I'm at least willing to take that risk.

Madoka, on the other hand, I'm much more skeptical about. The series was excellent, and I think the way they ended it left little to be desired. I don't know what else they are planning to do with the movie, and I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but this *feels* more like milking. Madoka already has three manga series, a game coming out, and a novelization. They might do something great with the movie, but I'm less sure about how happy I am with trading in a couple of "standard" Shaft shows for it.

All in all, though, the more success Shaft has, the higher the chances are of them continuing to produce shows in the style that I've loved for so long.
I don't want that to go away, even if I have to endure a dozen recap movies to keep them afloat.

Dextro

2011-11-08, 12:50

I'm optimistic about Nisemonogatari. It's based on more source material by the same author, and from what I've seen, it looks awesome. Milking or not, I think there's good reason to believe that it will be at least a good show. I think that's worth trading in a few other shows for; or I'm at least willing to take that risk.

Madoka, on the other hand, I'm much more skeptical about. The series was excellent, and I think the way they ended it left little to be desired. I don't know what else they are planning to do with the movie, and I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but this *feels* more like milking. Madoka already has three manga series, a game coming out, and a novelization. They might do something great with the movie, but I'm less sure about how happy I am with trading in a couple of "standard" Shaft shows for it.

All in all, though, the more success Shaft has, the higher the chances are of them continuing to produce shows in the style that I've loved for so long.
I don't want that to go away, even if I have to endure a dozen recap movies to keep them afloat.

Same here: I've come to enjoy Shaft shows for quite a while and Shibo's work just sealed the deal: Hidamari is one of my personal favourites for example and Bakemonogatari just blew my mind out of the water when it first came out (which means I was already pretty pumped up for a PMMM that didn't disappoint).

I am however very apprehensive about the upcoming Madoka films. The show was pretty much standalone with an above average conclusion for what one would expect out of Urobuchi (:heh:) and pretty good pacing aside from the clearly rushed episode 10 yet they now decide to make not one but three separate movies for what feels like a completed work. Yes, it does feel pretty much like milking the series.

Strangely I would be fine with recap movies since that would be pretty standard milking of a popular franchise but the mention of a brand new story gets me really apprehensive about what's coming. If it's something simple like an expanded episode 10 then I would be OK with it but I most definitely suspect it'll probably mess with the established canon so far and as a fan of the work I can't help but be on my toes for a possible "bastardization" for the sake of money making.

But let's wait and see. If it means Shaft will get more money to produce the kind of shows I've enjoyed out of them then it's at least understandable. Heck, we may even get something good out of this.

applejuice

2011-11-10, 02:03

SHAFT has Nisemonogatari coming out in January.

It also just announced this (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3847709#post3847709).

I wonder... now that SHAFT has two blockbuster A-Tier franchises (XXXXmonogatari and Madoka Magica) to its name, will it choose to trade-in quantity for just focusing on and milking its two big franchises for all they're worth?

And if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Would love to hear opinions on this from fellow SHAFT fans. :)First, milking is never a bad thing. I call it 'giving appreciation to fans of the series'. Hidamari had 4th season and Kumeta Kouji was milked to death with SZS and Katte ni Kaijo. Those were one of the clear reasons why Shaft could build up such a strong fanbase. So... what do you expect? u.u~~

In case of Nisemonogatari, it is not milking. It is just simply animating sequel of already existing novel.

Madoka, on the other hand, I'm much more skeptical about. The series was excellent, and I think the way they ended it left little to be desired. I don't know what else they are planning to do with the movie, and I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but this *feels* more like milking. Madoka already has three manga series, a game coming out, and a novelization. They might do something great with the movie, but I'm less sure about how happy I am with trading in a couple of "standard" Shaft shows for it.
http://wiki.puella-magi.net/NewType_2011-12

This might change the way you think about new madoka movie. :D

------

The real problem of Shaft is not budget. It is just scheduling crisis SHAFT has as a whole since release of Tsukiyomi. Just remember that Madoka Magica is a project that has started three years ago, and only reason they couldn't get on working was due to Shaft's schedule.

lighto13

2011-12-06, 02:30

for first volume sales since 2000, bakemonogatari is at number 1 with madoka at number 2, topping many famous series such as gundam seed & destiny, code geass, kyoto animation series, etc.
this says alot about future potential of SHAFT anime series. i believe if they keep this up, they can completely outrun sunrise and kyoto animation as the best selling studio (they already are as their 2 best shows are number 1 and 2)

http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?p=1922100#post1922100

AbZeroNow

2012-05-19, 15:56

One good thing about SHAFT: They do know what properties make them money, and they do their best to keep it out there.

The rest of the -monogateri series being green-lit to be animated is certainly a move that will keep the money following in. Although it looks like we aren't going to see Kizumonogateri until 2013.

And of course, they also have 3 Madoka movies in the next couple of years too.

And SHAFT being SHAFT, I half wonder what is going to be finished later for Hidamari Sketch X Honeycomb: the animation or the voice work given Yuko Gotou's health(I hope she recovers soon. Autoimmune disease can be tough). I'm still betting on the animation being the last thing to be finished.

Westlo

2012-05-20, 02:45

One good thing about SHAFT: They do know what properties make them money, and they do their best to keep it out there.

More like Aniplex says you're doing this shit (Monogaratari, Madoka and Hidamari Sketch) and that's it lol.... Aniplex might as well buy them at this stage since non Aniplex produced/funded shows SHAFT have made have been total flops.

DonQuigleone

2012-05-20, 06:51

More like Aniplex says you're doing this shit (Monogaratari, Madoka and Hidamari Sketch) and that's it lol.... Aniplex might as well buy them at this stage since non Aniplex produced/funded shows SHAFT have made have been total flops.

What about Ef: A tale of memories and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei? Neither were funded by aniplex, and both were succesful enough to spawn sequels (in SZS's case numerous sequels)

andyjay729

2012-09-23, 16:42

Is it just me or do Shaft and Shinbo seem to have a thing for mentally broken/troubled women? Nozomu's class in SZS is defined by various mental quirks (and I think this intepretation still counts with the ending). Likewise, the girls of the Monogatari series struggle to escape the shadows of their illnesses. Then there's Denpa Onna's Erio and Madoka's cast...'nuff said. (For the last one, feel free to interject possible human trafficking metaphors.)

bhl88

2012-09-23, 17:05

Don't forget Fate (though Shaft didn't make Nanoha xD)

Archon_Wing

2012-09-24, 04:16

Yea, though Shinbo did direct Nanoha season 1. I am not sure if he was behind Fate or not, but that would explain a lot since she is quite umm different and imo far superior to the other characters in the series. But this is a talk that deserves its own topic, even if Shinbo and Shaft are heavily linked.

But that's just me; I tend to have a thing for troubled women in anime for whatever reason.

SeijiSensei

2012-09-25, 10:35

I wouldn't call Mina Tepes from Dance in the Vampire Bund especially broken or troubled, nor any of the girls in Hidamari Sketch. Yoshinoya-sensei in that show is a ditz, but not "broken."

I don't think Madoka herself fits this characterization either.

halibonga

2012-09-25, 11:20

SHAFT is arguably my favorite animation studio (along with Kyoani and Madhouse), their animation style is very unique, with all those strange, quick symbolic insert images that could get very confusing for the audience.

seems like they are working on another magical girl anime for fall-winter seasons, maybe Madoka's success inspired them to continue with this genre.

Xellos-_^

2012-09-25, 12:40

Kaioshin Sama

2012-09-25, 15:44

I'm not really sure I like Shaft....like at all, but the problems I have with them are easily fixable. One is to get at least one other director to use every now and then. I know people love Shinbo, but I find his style of direction to be way to busy and distracting bordering on annoying. I don't understand why he can't give a scene room to breath and has to be constantly breaking them up into really short and quick cuts to different angles and displays of text every few seconds. To me that's not being dynamic, that's just being as I said distracting and it makes it really hard for me to stay focused on the scenes and dialogues that are supposed to be the main pull of most of their shows. I even found this to be a problem with Madoka Magica at times which is probably the first thing by them I've found to be readily watchable in more than small doses at a time.

The other is more personal preference in source material. If I were going to watch more stuff by them I'd prefer it to be more like Madoka Magica and less like Monogatari and with less focus on overtly creepy imagery/themes in general. This means toning it down on the big focus set pieces (several minutes or more) that feature things like little girls bathing and the weird fetishistic stuff scene in the likes of Nisemonogatari in general. Just not at all my cup of tea and Madoka Magica shows that's it's possible to do those angles Shinbo loves and have a little light fanservice without having to absolutely drown an episode in it.

The way it looks though none of this is changing any time soon with the likes of Sasami-San@Ganbarai and it's apparent focus on a slavishly doting brother and his kawaii imouto, but maybe there's something in that Prism Nana one that I could find watchable.

Soliloquy

2012-09-26, 10:50

I wish they adapt more series like Soredemo Machi Wa Mawatteiru. They adapted the normal series like Denpa Onna To Seishun Otoko which is probably welcome direction. In those type of anime, you couldn't really know Shinbo was directing it because he was really restraining his style. The problem with this studio, they tend to choose a bit too many gimmicky type of anime. It's where many problems with Shaft seems to surface.

I watched most of anime made by Shaft from 2000 and onwards, they seem to be not that good when it comes to directing anime that are mature and deep. While the couple of anime and Puella Magica were as deep as they got and it isn't saying much. In the end, the visuals were the best thing while the characters tend to be hit and miss for me.

ultimate_noob

2012-09-30, 20:27

brocko

2012-09-30, 21:02

Everybody in the industry outsources to each other.

Shaft is probably just the biggest example for it since they're notorious for crapping up production deadlines and need all the help that they can get. Even if most of the animation is still not done by them, they're still the creative forces behind all the storyboards, scene composition, animation direction and all that jazz. The other companies still get listed within the credits anyway, it's just that Shaft is the production studio who put it all together so they get the biggest name plaster.

It's like how companies design a product in one area of the world, but outsources the manufacturing halfway across the globe because it's cheaper or the infrastructure is already there to do so.

If a studio manages to do everything in-house, then great, more power to them. Not every studio is large enough to be able to do so though.

SeijiSensei

2012-09-30, 21:41

Does anyone else think this looks nothing at all like the kind of show I expect SHAFT to produce based on its recent history?

2L-UiGMy-ic

Well, except for the hints of loli yuri, of course, and skirts that lend themselves to "interesting" camera angles.

totoum

2012-10-01, 03:05

Even if most of the animation is still not done by them, they're still the creative forces behind all the storyboards, scene composition, animation direction and all that jazz.

Well it can all depend,sometimes the main studio trusts the subcontractor enough to let them have some creative control of the episode.
Not Shaft but still directed by Shinbo, Kyoani was subcontracted for an episode of Soultaker (http://aninomiyako.wordpress.com/2012/02/05/kyoto-animations-subcontract-work-part-1/)

If you want a more recent example there's shaft getting Madhouse to work on madoka magica ep11, it was storyboarded by Tomohiko Ito (madhouse veteran though directing SAO at A-1 now) and the episode was directed by Kotono Watanabe (who will direct the Madhouse show Btooom! this fall)

Of course in both cases I'm sure Shinbo is still directing and Kyoani and Madhouse couldn't do whatever they wanted but it shows that sometimes subcontract jobs involve more than just key animation.

Also some fun trivia from that blogpost:

It’s interesting that they often worked on early shows of directors who are big shots today, such as Seiji Mizushima (UN-GO, Gundam 00), Tsutomu Mizushima (Blood-C, Ika-Musume), Takahiro Omori (Durarara!!, Baccano!), Hiroshi Nishikori (Index, Azumanga Daioh) and so on.

So Tsutomu Mizushima is no exception,though I guess maybe he tries to do as much in house as possible.

TJR

2012-10-01, 03:14

There's been a buzz about top-notch director Mizushima Tsutomu (http://myanimelist.net/people/9552/Mizushima_Tsutomu) making a controversial tweet (http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-12105.html)about animation studios notorious of outsourcing their animations (not just in-betweens but everything) and said that he is against them and noting that such studios should not exist.

Outsourcing key animation is a pain for the director since it complicates management and potentially impacts the quality of the work. Some of these companies turn in poor work, and the onus is on him/her to fix it in time (if it's even possible.....often, they just have to let it slide, while accepting responsibility for poor quality).

Ideally, a director would want key animation to be done in a single studio and with a consistent staff. Contract employees are easier to manage than freelancers (who often come and go as they please, refuse to animate cuts they aren't interested in, or refuse to do retakes).

2ch and other tweets say this studio is nothing but shaft because they're an outsource machine giving key animations to silver link, sunrise and gainax among others and background arts to studio tulip.

It seems that people are quick to blame SHAFT when it comes to dubious management :heh:

However, they're by no means the only company to outsource key animation. Madhouse was pretty notorious for it, and some of the smaller studios have no choice but to go that route.

Is it ok to outsource everything and claim it YOURS once the production is done?

Is there a big difference? Either way, the studio (as an entity) takes credit for work done by someone's employees, whether its their own or another company's.

You could argue that the studio is getting paid too much to serve as a middleman. However, they also take on final responsibility for the product.