View Full Version : One Piece - Chapter 623 [manga]
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Well, as mentioned last thread, we now have an early post-Golden Week spoiler! :) As always, T and aohige gives us the goods:
-Chapter title is "Fisher Tiger, the pirate". Ministory shows us the lovely Miss Kaya (who's looking migh-tee fine, I might add :love:).
-The Sun pirates have obtained the eternal pose for Koala's homeland, and the former slave herself gets a makeover (though she has yet to rid herself if her old slave habits). The crew's doctor Aladdin (a bearded rockling merman who was a former slave AND Neptune soldier) says that her scars will take time to heal, but Arlong wonders if any of the crew would kill her if Tiger hadn't forbade them from doing so. Jinbei says that it's actually a minority of humans who look down on fish-folk, while the rest simply fear them. He then asks Koala why she's so scared of them, and she answers it's simply because she knows nothing about them, which then reminds Jinbei of queen Otohime's words......
-After some trials and tribulations, the fish-pirates reach their destination, Foolshout Island. Macro and various other Sun pirates tearfully tell Koala that they'll miss her, and she says she'll be sure to tell her people that fishfolk aren't so bad after all. Tiger personally returns Koala to her village, but the people there have a suspicious air about them. When Tiger returns to his ship, he encounters a nasty surprise waiting for him: An ambush from rear-admiral Strawberry and various marines! It turns out that the people of Koala's village tipped off the marines about the Sun pirates' arrival in exchange for Koala's freedom. The marines assault Tiger and his ship, and the captain is fatally wounded. Koala asks her mother what all the noise outside the village is, but her mom simply plays dumb......
-The Sun pirates steal a marine vessel and rescue their dying captain. Aladdin says that Tiger's blood is a rare type, and nobody else in the crew has it. However, there is human blood in the pirate ship that could be used to save him. Tiger refuses, saying he won't share the blood of those who oppress his race. He then reveals that on his last adventure, he ended up getting captured and remained as a slave on Mariejoa for many years. After escaping, he decided that he simply couldn't let the slaves there remain any longer. He also says that despite the path he took, he agrees with Otohime's ideals, and that's why people like Koala should be the ones to influence the next generation. He has long since realized that decent human beings exist in the world, and tells his crew to keep everything that happened between them a secret from their homeland, as it is foolish for the dead to leave their hate behind in the world. Unfortunately, while he understands in his mind the truth about humanity, the devil in his heart nonetheless prevents him from accepting the blood and loving humans in general. His crew praises him and begs him to stay with them, but Tiger merely thanks them, and finally departs from this mortal coil.......
-Arlong, enraged by the events that happened, goes back to Koala's island in order to slaughter all of the hated humans who betrayed his captain's kindness. However, in his quest for vengeance, he has a most unlikely run-in with..... vice-admiral Kizaru! He then gets beaten and captured by the mighty marine......
....Man, what a chapter (and it hasn't actually been fully released yet!). While things pretty much went the way we predicted them (Koala's fellow villagers setting up Tiger's crew for a marine assault), it was still cool to learn of the way things progressed. I especially loved Tiger's dying speech. However, I was still kinda expecting Kizaru to be the one to end his life rather than some grunt marines (apparently, Strawberry didn't actually fight him during the ambush), so Borsalino gunning after Arlong is a bit more surprising to me. Still can't help but wonder how this will tie in to Otohime's death.......
Oh, and Koala actually looks pretty cute after her makeover! Tiger's crewman Aladdin looks pretty awesome, as well (I guess we can expect to see him appear in the present time, as well). And now to wait and see how a cute, innocent former slave girl will end up joining Dragon's bloody world revolution! ;)
james0246
2011-04-30, 12:22
So it seems I was right, and Tiger was taken down by a large amount of no-name Marines (led by the ever-cool Strawberry :)). BTW, Marvel you have Strawberry listed as a Rear-Admiral, is that his official rank 13 years ago?
I do like that Koala's family/village sacrifice Tiger for Koala, and not something silly like reward money. It's all very gray and complex...
BTW, Marvel you have Strawberry listed as a Rear-Admiral, is that his official rank 13 years ago?
Yeah, T later noted that he made a mistake regarding Strawberry's rank (at first he said he was a VA, but then later notes that he's an RA).
Anyway, looks like the popular consensus now is that one of Jinbei's reasons for becoming a Shichibukai was so he would free Arlong from Kizaru's custody. I certainly admit that seems quite plausible at this point....
BTW, something else that caught my interest in the summary was the fact that Macro's crew actually seemed to like Koala. Makes me even more confused as to why he chose to become a kidnapper.....
Blackbeard D. Kuma
2011-04-30, 14:16
Fisher Tiger getting taken down by fodder marines? Really? While it was an ambush attack, that's just BS. Someone of his caliber shouldn't fall in such a manner. Big disappointment there.
Other than that, it's nice to see Strawberry get some development/panel time.
^Maybe those mook marines used Haki-infused bullets (it was never said that the ability to wield it was exclusive to VAs, after all)....
Oh, and once again I must say that younger Kizaru's the most pimpin' marine ever (gotta love how awesome he looks taking out Arlong :D).
Oh, and be sure to check out the SBS thread, guys! We get the name of AKAINU'S FRUIT! ;)
james0246
2011-04-30, 15:55
Fisher Tiger getting taken down by fodder marines? Really? While it was an ambush attack, that's just BS. Someone of his caliber shouldn't fall in such a manner. Big disappointment there.
To add insult to injury, Since Tiger was a slave at some point during his travels; I wonder if his method for scaling the Red Line was something he learned during his captivity. Specifically, since he was held in Mariejois maybe he escaped along the same route he later climbed, thus providing familiarity and maybe even help in his later return journey. In which case, his moment of awesomeness has a little asterisk next to it indicating that Tiger took the easy way up the mountain :)…
That being said, I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned that the inhabitants of Fishman Island were lied to concerning Tiger's death. They believe that Tiger died because humans refused to help him (by transfusing blood), but in reality he died because he refused to accept 'tainted' human blood. I wonder who retconned the story in the 13 years following his death? edit: It seems Tiger was involved in the retcon of his own death...
Oh, and once again I must say that younger Kizaru's the most pimpin' marine ever (gotta love how awesome he looks taking out Arlong :D).
It's the hat that does it. :p
wisteria233
2011-04-30, 17:32
This was a pretty powerful chapter, now that I look back I wonder what Koala looks like now?
I've got this strange idea in my head that Koala is actually grew up to be Bonnie one of the supernovas, or a revolutionary.
So far I'm loving the Fishman Island Arc and this flashback.
SOGESNAKE
2011-04-30, 17:41
I'm pretty surprised that Kizaru himself was there to capture Arlong. Which makes me wonder as to how Arlong got out afterwards... I doubt they'd release him. And it was said that Jinbei was the one who released him into East Blue.... so I wonder how that's gonna work out~ :D
I'm pretty surprised that Kizaru himself was there to capture Arlong. Which makes me wonder as to how Arlong got out afterwards... I doubt they'd release him. And it was said that Jinbei was the one who released him into East Blue.... so I wonder how that's gonna work out~ :D
Easy, Jinbei disbanding the Sun Pirates and becoming a Shichibukai for the release of Arlong and the rest of the former slaves being left alone. Also probably something to do with Fishman Island in there too.
Bonta Kun
2011-04-30, 17:44
Great One Piece chapter as always.
First off, Kizaru and RA Strawberry = most awesome marines we've seen so far and maybe along with Bogart(I still can't wait to see what he can do:p)
I think I can accept how Tiger was taken down by a load of grunts, sure he's one hell of a hard man but even he will have his limits when faced by such firepower.
Only people we've seen take that amount of gunfire are logia users, Whitebeard and Luffy.
Koala's makeover is pretty cute, I really do hope we get to see her in the present.
BTW, something else that caught my interest in the summary was the fact that Macro's crew actually seemed to like Koala. Makes me even more confused as to why he chose to become a kidnapper.....
I don't think that him being/becoming a kidnapper would mean he wouldn't take a liking to a human girl.
If he turned kidnapper after Tiger's death then it's reasonable but not quite so, if he was kidnapping before Tiger's death.
Well way I see it, reason for the crew in general, taking a liking/fondness towards Koala is cause she is one of a kind while on the ship, not unusual that the odd one out in a group of people ends up being the focus of the group.
And in this case even tho she is a human, she's a human girl and little girls have a way of getting to people.
Cub-Sama
2011-04-30, 19:49
I'm guessing Arlong or another human hating fishman/merman lied to the rest of Fishman Island about Tai's death, otherwise that is quite the massive retcon considering it is one of the main reasons for distrusting humans.
SilverSyko
2011-04-30, 20:04
It's the hat that does it. :p
The awesome-level of the fedora is beyond bounds that's for sure.~ :cool:
Very emotional chapter detailing Fisher Tiger's death and the twist that he was actually responsible for it himself and the fact that he was originally a slave in Mariejois. I'm guessing next is the details behind Otohime's assasination and how Arlong got into East Blue because of Jinbei.
Surprised noone (aside from Marvel) here mentioned Kaya in the mini-arc. I can imagine the look Usopp's face when they finally meet again. :p
Nightengale
2011-04-30, 20:11
I'm guessing Arlong or another human hating fishman/merman lied to the rest of Fishman Island about Tai's death, otherwise that is quite the massive retcon considering it is one of the main reasons for distrusting humans.
I believe that they're all lies.
The stories of Fisher Tiger climbing the Red Line to reach the Holy Land is pretty much confirmed a lie by virtue of him being a slave.
Same with the story of his death.
paradox13
2011-04-30, 20:46
I'm guessing Arlong or another human hating fishman/merman lied to the rest of Fishman Island about Tai's death
Pretty obvious it is this.
Don't think there is any retcon in OP.
wisteria233
2011-04-30, 20:48
Very emotional chapter detailing Fisher Tiger's death and the twist that he was actually responsible for it himself and the fact that he was originally a slave in Mariejois. I'm guessing next is the details behind Otohime's assasination and how Arlong got into East Blue because of Jinbei.
Arlong was shown to hate humans before even having met one when he went to the surface, so no retcon here.
I believe that they're all lies.
The stories of Fisher Tiger climbing the Red Line to reach the Holy Land is pretty much confirmed a lie by virtue of him being a slave.
Same with the story of his death.
I think you're mixing up the time line here. Tiger went on a journey and was gone for three years. When he came back he wouldn't talk about where he went but he went to talk to Neptune and Otohime where he said he saw "humans." This is when he was a slave and escaped. After this is when he went and freed the slaves and then formed the Sun Pirates.
grey_1960
2011-04-30, 22:34
Chapter 623
That was a great chapter. Seeing Vice Admiral Borsalino at the end of the chapter was pretty cool. Seeing Rear Admiral Strawberry makes me wonder how powerful Former Rear Admiral X. Drake is going to be. He did make a name for himself after the two year time skip.
Tiger Legend is not has it seems
Tiger being a slave is a news. Then you have the fact that Tiger could have survived. The villagers never betrayed Tiger either. I mean in page eleven Rear Admiral Strawberry said "Even the people in the village you just went to consented to us causing a it of disturbance here. In exchange for us overlooking the fact that girl was property of the Tenryuubito." I wonder if Vice Admiral Barsalino set this whole thing up? I wonder if Barsalino going to use or trick Arlong into killing the queen. I mean this would be perfect time. Just tell Arlong it was the queen who told us were he would be. I put this out has a suggestion because Tiger's story is different from the Tiger Legend.
Admiral Kizaru Former Cipher Pol Agent?
We now know he had his logia fruit for over a decade. I wonder if he worked for Ciphor Pol in the past? The way he going at this one seems to be more undercover and sneaky. The way he is dressed you think he is Ciphor Pol agent.
ChaosPaladin
2011-04-30, 23:46
i like the fact tt tiger is not as strong as he is made out to be. all the stuff regarding his legend must have been made up to give hope to the fishmen on fishmen island. then his crew must have made up the story of human rejecting to give him blood so tt the fact of him rejecting the blood can be hidden and preserve his legend like status
risingstar3110
2011-05-01, 00:21
Koala may grow up to be Bonnie as it stands. Or she just turn out to be incredible powerful, and becomes a right-hand-woman of the Youkon Big Mama (?)
That's why they watch over fishman island (pure guess through)
I've got this strange idea in my head that Koala is actually grew up to be Bonnie one of the supernovas, or a revolutionary.
While i think that make for an interesting little twist, I would have to put a fork in that theory by pointing out that we actually already seen what Jewlery bonney looked like when she was kid =p... the eyes and hair are all wrong
But like others i find myself drawn to wonder what became of little Koala and to see her in the present...
and now as a true one piece fan, having grown atleast a vague level of fondness for a character, I must say...
Adult Koala for strawhat! =p
why does it take so little to spawn such feelings
BTW, something else that caught my interest in the summary was the fact that Macro's crew actually seemed to like Koala. Makes me even more confused as to why he chose to become a kidnapper.....
Well the thing it seems that Macro does not discriminate... at anything...
I mean he became a slaver in humans, fishmen, and mermen alike... or even a former crewmate for that matter... Everyone has a chance to become his friend, or another dollar in his wallet. Pay him enough and might have even sold Koala
Battler-kun
2011-05-01, 06:36
Those fucking Tenryuubito
Death is way to good for them.
Can't wait to see each of them getting punched until near death, recover and become slaves themselves.
Now that was a very interesting chapter, with the truth behind the legend of Fisher Tiger being revealed. So besides having been one of the slaves rather than assaulting the place, he died because of his refusal to use human blood.
It's no wonder Arlong turned out the way he did, not only was he hateful towards humans to begin with, this just poured oil on the flames. I can't imagine what Kizaru intends to do with him though, and how he managed to get out of captivity.
I can't help but wonder who tipped off the marines, the only thing that I can think of is that some of the people from where they picked her up passed on the information about Koala and her hometown. As for Koala, I feel bad for her since she's bound to find out what happened, and possibly the entire truth about the ambush. I imagine she'd be heartbroken to find out she was the cause of Tiger's demise. Like others, I hope the adult Koala will make an appearance.
This was a pretty powerful chapter, now that I look back I wonder what Koala looks like now?
I've got this strange idea in my head that Koala is actually grew up to be Bonnie one of the supernovas, or a revolutionary.
So far I'm loving the Fishman Island Arc and this flashback.
Well, Oda usually never introduces a character without any purpose, I think also that she probably is one character already shown, but for me, she is looking more like Perona (particulary her eyes):
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110422172323/onepiece/images/0/07/Koala_portrait.png
http://i995.mangareader.net/one-piece/623/one-piece-2224249.jpg
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn95/Jenny_12_/One%20Piece/Perona02.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101029054118/onepiece/images/8/80/Perona2.jpg
Bonta Kun
2011-05-01, 08:39
^ thats a very very left field theory.
But I highly doubt it. Besides any kinda similarity in design, I certainly don't see Koala growing up and develpoing a selfish princess attitude and certainly not oppressing others even if they were zombies.
I don't think we've seen a present day Koala yet, unless she had some sorta cameo in the bakground at certain scenes that we've all missed or can't think of.
ellifeedn
2011-05-01, 08:59
I totally saw that Tiger would refuse human blood back when that story was first told, because even if humans were to offer blood, a fishman who hated humans would not agree to it. Of course, I didn't expect Tiger to have different feelings about it. Or that he was a slave for a time. Oda really knows how to let a reader guess right about some things and adds even more that's not expected.
K. Shiruto
2011-05-01, 10:04
To those who say Tiger freed the slaves while he escaped Mariejois, you're wrong.
He escaped and returned home, had an audience with the king to tell him about his intentions, and finally went back and freed the slaves.
I can understand you're kinda confused, it's all mangastream's fault.
Here, read:
http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/29452
[Insert text: After Tiger's attack on Mariejoa...]
People: He did what nobody's ever been able to do before! / He put the Tenryuubito in their place!! // Fisher Tiger is the hero of Fishman Island!!!
[Box: Ryuuguu Palace]
Neptune: So he actually went and did it......!!
Otohime: .........
Flashback!Neptune: [B]You mean to free the slaves?!
Flashback!Tiger: I cannot bear it...!! The life of a slave is a hell - do you deny it?! / Even now, as we stand here, they are suffering torments no person should have to face...!! // I have made my decision!!!
I don't think we've seen a present day Koala yet, unless she had some sorta cameo in the bakground at certain scenes that we've all missed or can't think of.
Personally i think it's best to keep Koala as someone we haven't seen before. Still believe her older self will play a huge part in this flashback (probably something to do with the Queen). It's not over yet!
I didn't expect Tiger to have been a slave. That was a shocking twist. It's a shame his hatred wasn't directed only towards the Tenryuubito, as it should have been. Even he knew it was wrong to hate all humans for this, but he still couldn't help himself. He couldn't even come to like a fellow slave, even though the rest of his crew did (minus Arlong). Those three years deeply scarred him.
Blackbeard D. Kuma
2011-05-02, 13:00
Kizaru apprehending Arlong will probably lead into Jimbei "letting Arlong loose" in exchange for becoming one of the shichibukai. Should be interesting to see how this scenario develops.
I wonder how many shots Fisher Tiger took. If it was an absurd amount of bullets like WB took, then his death is perfectly understandable. No one is invincible, after all.
Unfortunately, Tiger's demon got the better of him. He could have lived, but refused to use human blood for transfusion. Quite tragic seeing as how he came to the full realization of Otohime's ideals being right. After freeing himself and others from the shackles of the Tenryuubito and taking a stand against them, he truly deserves the title "Hero of Fishman Island". A good and noble fishman he was.
^Yeah, I actually share your disappointment at the fact that Tiger was taken down by a squad of grunts rather than a single powerful individual (was still really hoping to see some more of Kong), but I suppose that being pumped full of lead makes for a more "realistic" death (still, even though Whitebeard died after being shot with hundreds of bullets, at least it was Blackbeard's crew who finished him off in the end)......
Anyway, now that we know that Tiger was a slave in Mariejoa, this may actually explain why Oda hasn't given us the full details of his one-man revolution in the holy land so far. There may be certain events that unfolded during Tiger's stint as a slave that Oda is hesitant to reveal at this time (most likely concerning the world nobles). As far as Arlong goes, I already mentioned the whole "Jinbei becomes Shichibukai in exchange for Arlong's freedom" theory last page, so yeah, that seems the most likely scenario.......
It's the hat that does it. :p
The awesome-level of the fedora is beyond bounds that's for sure.~ :cool:
Heh, heh.... yep, fedoras are awesome, all right! But it also helps that Kizaru's my favorite admiral to begin with. ;) (Though with that being said that reminds me: When the heck will we ever see Bogart again!?) Also, while it's cool to see more of Strawberry (and his awesome hairdo), I still kinda would've preferred to see the other buster call marines like Doberman, Onigumo or Yamakaji (the Fidel Castro-lookin' dude, in case anyone's forgotten). Well, maybe it's not too late for any of those guys to make an appearance in the flashback.....
Blackbeard D. Kuma
2011-05-02, 14:10
Jimbei now understands that only a small portion of humans are elitist snobs, so he too has begun to share Otohime's sentiments on humans as a whole. With that being said, that ties in perfectly to Jimbei becoming a shichibukai. His recruitment is representative of the reconciliation between fishmen/merfolk and humans. Freeing Arlong out of compassion and friendship is just all the more incentive for him to join the WG.
ellifeedn
2011-05-02, 14:12
I wonder if we'll see Arlong again.
Blackbeard D. Kuma
2011-05-02, 15:08
I wonder what Jimbei did to increase his bounty from 76 to 250 million. We'll probably find that out very soon in this flashback.
I wonder what Jimbei did to increase his bounty from 76 to 250 million. We'll probably find that out very soon in this flashback.
I'll bet his bounty hike was a result of him teabagging a world noble (in retaliation to brother Tai's murder). :p
Oh, and back to Macro:
I don't think that him being/becoming a kidnapper would mean he wouldn't take a liking to a human girl.
If he turned kidnapper after Tiger's death then it's reasonable but not quite so, if he was kidnapping before Tiger's death.
Well way I see it, reason for the crew in general, taking a liking/fondness towards Koala is cause she is one of a kind while on the ship, not unusual that the odd one out in a group of people ends up being the focus of the group.
And in this case even tho she is a human, she's a human girl and little girls have a way of getting to people.
Well the thing it seems that Macro does not discriminate... at anything...
I mean he became a slaver in humans, fishmen, and mermen alike... or even a former crewmate for that matter... Everyone has a chance to become his friend, or another dollar in his wallet. Pay him enough and might have even sold Koala
Well, you both seem to raise a pretty good point. Yes, Macro certainly did seem to take a liking to Koala due to her being the outlander of the group, but I suppose we also can't rule out the possibility that even the Macro of back then was such a money-grubbing whore that he would sell her ass off at the first available opportunity. Well, if the upcoming chapters don't touch upon this, maybe a future SBS will......
Rainbowman
2011-05-03, 15:43
In reviewing this chapter:
Cover story: It's good to see Kaya doing fine. Next cover story is bound to take place at the Baratie.
Main Chapter: There must have been a spy on Koala's homeland in order for the marine ambush to take place. And out of all the crewmembers of the Sun Pirates witnessing Fisher Tiger's death, I bet Arlong was the heartless coward.
Main Chapter: There must have been a spy on Koala's homeland in order for the marine ambush to take place.
Actually i think it's more likely that someone from the town where the sunny pirates picked up Koala ratted her and the sunny pirates out to the marines. The marines knew that the girl was a slave and the only ones who knew Koala was a slave were those from that town... furthermore they also knew what town they were all heading too
And out of all the crewmembers of the Sun Pirates witnessing Fisher Tiger's death, I bet Arlong was the heartless coward.
what?
BTW, I like the theory of Koala becoming one of Big Mom's lieutenants. Though I still kinda feel it makes more sense for her to work under Dragon (especially when taking Tiger's dying speech into consideration), she might actually be better protected under one of the Yonkou. Hopefully, Oda will give us an update on her status soon......
james0246
2011-05-03, 20:59
BTW, I like the theory of Koala becoming one of Big Mom's lieutenants. Though I still kinda feel it makes more sense for her to work under Dragon (especially when taking Tiger's dying speech into consideration), she might actually be better protected under one of the Yonkou. Hopefully, Oda will give us an update on her status soon......
Working under Dragon would make more sense though, considering that she more than many others knows the true extent of the villiany of the World Government.
Then again, this is kind of a silly discussions considering that Arlong could have potentially killed her at the end of the chapter...:)
I’d be shocked if Jimbei’s bounty raise to over 200 million is because he attacked a Tenryuubito. In a world where attacking the World Nobles is one of the greatest, most forbidden crimes, there’s no way he’d be accepted as a Shichibukai. That would allow future pirates to think that they too could get away with doing something like that. Unlike Arlong, who wanted to kill the villagers who betrayed Tiger, I’m guessing that Jimbei will directly attack the ones responsible for killing Tiger: the Marines. The Government would be more tolerant of accepting attacks on Marines as opposed to attacks on World Nobles. Fighting soldiers would also give the Government a good idea of Jimbei’s combat capabilities.
That’s why I’m pretty certain that Luffy will never be invited into the Shichibukai. His bounty is already higher than the original bounties of the other Warlords (of course, we still don’t know what Mihawk’s bounty is) and he’s strong enough to belong in that group. But, having punched ol’ Charlos in the face, I don’t think the Government’s going to call Luffy to Mariejois any time soon.
james0246
2011-05-04, 01:37
I expect that the next chapter will reveal the Queen’s assassination, which will in turn lead to Fishman Island starting to revolt against the Humans. To prevent this, Jinbei will ask the World Government to become a Shichibukai in order to provide an outlet for Fishmen rage as well as to provide protection for his island (ala Hancock's protection for Amazon Lily).
623 does it count for this week, or there will be 624 in the end of the week ?
Edit: Ok, 10x Freya :)
623 does it count for this week, or there will be 624 in the end of the week ?
623 was this week. it was just early due to last weeks break.
I expect that the next chapter will reveal the Queen’s assassination, which will in turn lead to Fishman Island starting to revolt against the Humans. To prevent this, Jinbei will ask the World Government to become a Shichibukai in order to provide an outlet for Fishmen rage as well as to provide protection for his island (ala Hancock's protection for Amazon Lily).
I don't think so. From what we know Fishman island never got the protection that amazon Lily did. It did not need it because Whitebeard was its protector and the WG refused to mess with whitebeard. If Jimbei's status was providing protection to fishman island it would have been brought up during his betrayal in the war. Though i do recall it being said that part of the reason they made Jimbei a schickbukai was to help smooth over relations between humans and fishmen... though thinking about it, it could be that it might have been to smooth over things after the death of Tiger, since that might also spark a lot of angry since he was seen as a hero.
Besides, for fishman island to revolt against the humans over her death seems like it would mean that the WG had a definite hand in it and i don't see what the WG would gain form killing Otihime of all people
I’d be shocked if Jimbei’s bounty raise to over 200 million is because he attacked a Tenryuubito. In a world where attacking the World Nobles is one of the greatest, most forbidden crimes, there’s no way he’d be accepted as a Shichibukai.
And yet it's okay for pirates who hurt/killed several high-ranking military officers to be granted amnesty? ;)
But yeah, I guess I agree that assaulting the nobles would be too severe a crime for the WG to overlook. That is, unless they decide to hush it up or something (hey, they sure as hell had no problem with hushing up a mass prison break)......
Blackbeard D. Kuma
2011-05-04, 12:35
I was thinking that maybe human pirates are the culprits to Otohime's death. She advocates the co-existence with humans, and yet it is that very same species that brings about her end. That would be a truly tragic end, and would preserve the friction/tension fishmen/merfolk have towards humans. Infuriated by this incident, Jimbei vows to fight off piracy from that day onward (do recall that the government knows him as a pirate-hating pirate). He then accepts the WG's offer to become a shichibukai. Amnesty and Arlong's freedom are just added incentives to do so.
SilverSyko
2011-05-04, 13:36
Um, wasn't it already said that it was Decken who killed Otohime?
I might be wrong of course but I swear I read/heard it somewhere.
Then again, Oda did lead us to believe Tiger was killed by humans and in this chapter he actually killed himself, so I guess it could be another twist.
hen again, Oda did lead us to believe Tiger was killed by humans and in this chapter he actually killed himself, so I guess it could be another twist.
Well, in a round about way humans did kill Tiger.
The Small One
2011-05-05, 00:31
Maybe Jinbei killed the Queen, as a requirement to free Arlong and become a Shichibukai… :confused: No, not a good idea.
Well even if he is a small time boss, Arlong can still save his ass from Kizaru.All he has to do is to jump back to sea and swim like hell :D
Still dont get why Kizaru's interested in him.Maybe he is looking for an easy promotion by stirring fishman stuff.
mr.muscles
2011-05-06, 06:13
personally i think kizaru will warp arlong into thinking that it was the queens fault for tigers death, and he kills her in revenge. or kizaru tells him to kill the queen if he wants to live
Um, wasn't it already said that it was Decken who killed Otohime?
I might be wrong of course but I swear I read/heard it somewhere.
Otohime's killer was never specified. And to be honest, I kinda doubt that Decken or his family had anything to do with the murder at this point.....
personally i think kizaru will warp arlong into thinking that it was the queens fault for tigers death, and he kills her in revenge. or kizaru tells him to kill the queen if he wants to live
That.... would be kinda twisted, but admittedly I kinda wouldn't put it behind the WG to pull off that kind of twisted stunt (especially when you remember how Akainu manipulated one of Whitebeard's own allies to attack him during the war).....
Undertaker
2011-05-09, 00:13
personally i think kizaru will warp arlong into thinking that it was the queens fault for tigers death, and he kills her in revenge. or kizaru tells him to kill the queen if he wants to live
That.... would be kinda twisted, but admittedly I kinda wouldn't put it behind the WG to pull off that kind of twisted stunt (especially when you remember how Akainu manipulated one of Whitebeard's own allies to attack him during the war).....
Agree that it's not something WG won't do (just look at existence of CP and other twisted stuff so far), but I don't think that is the case. If it is, Akainu should appear in this flashback instead of Kisaru, since that's more of his thing. Kisaru to me is by-the-book type of guy who will not do anything more than required nor anything less, compare to Akainu going all out of his way and Aoikiji's bending-rule ways.
Also after read the discussion for last couple of chapter, it seem there are a few people think Arlong shown in flashback doesn't explain his later action, I have to disagree this that. Here is what I see of Arlong in these chapter.
Granted Arlong is not a former slave and seem ill supported in his later actions, and obviously what he did was still wrong , but I did notice something interesting that might worth being touch up on.
Didn't know if anyone noticed and it didn't seem the fact was brought up in the discussion, but at the end of 621 Arlong was shown to be the one that stopped the others from beating on the unconscious Marines while Jinbe was the one holding the unconscious body up for questioning. It could be said that at the beginning of the Sun Pirate, Jinbe was the more aggressive of the two. It's in the next chapter that we start to see Arlong's kill-them-all attitude and was disciplined by Fisher Tiger, and keep in mind that it's not just him, Jinbe was alongside been lectured by Fisher Tiger as well. That's not the Jinbe we see right now.
It after three years when Kaola came aboard we see Jinbe showing some concern from him as well as Arlong's physical abuse. Than in this chapter Arlong noted that how everywhere they went, they were been discriminated on and even mentioned that Jimbei has changed somewhat.
To me it points out something really interesting. Jimbei started out skeptical of Otohime's view and and said as such in 621 and after join the Sun Pirate he was shown as the more aggressive of the two and seem seem to view human as enemy more so than Arlong at the end of the chapter. He changed in those years on the sea and became more open to the idea of learning more about human. He sees the fear from the humans they met and realized that are also decent human beings.
On the other hand, being on the same ship for couple years Arlong took a different turn. He was the one who had shown more restraint at the end of 621, but instead of seen what Jinbe has seen during their voyage, he saw something entirely different. From his view, he only saw the distrust and despise, as well as being looked down upon. Helped by his own short temper, he became more violent towards human.
Of course that still doesn't justify what he did, but on contrary to some people think and mention in last chapter's discussion, I think this flashback does show how Arlong become what he is now and in addition how Jinbe become who he is now. If you view both of them as
on the brink of deciding what to do for their race's future Jinbe somehow was sway back to Otohime's ideal while Arlong solidifies the stereotypical fishmen/mermaid view.
^While I pretty much agree with your post, I just have to point out a little error: Koala wasn't with the Sun pirates for three years. Rather, they met her 3 years after the crew was first formed. Otherwise, exactly how much time she spent with them was never specified (though I'm pretty sure it was for less than ONE year, let alone three).....
Anyways, there's something that recently occurred to me: Since Tiger was revealed to be a former slave himself, does this mean that other former slaves like Aladdin were aware of his secret from the beginning? I mean, it's probably just me, but Aladdin didn't seem as shocked as the other non-slave members did during the confession. I kinda wouldn't be surprised if him and the other former slaves kept their mouths shut out of respect for their captain......
Hisoka??
2011-05-09, 20:20
^While I pretty much agree with your post, I just have to point out a little error: Koala wasn't with the Sun pirates for three years. Rather, they met her 3 years after the crew was first formed. Otherwise, exactly how much time she spent with them was never specified (though I'm pretty sure it was for less than ONE year, let alone three).....
Anyways, there's something that recently occurred to me: Since Tiger was revealed to be a former slave himself, does this mean that other former slaves like Aladdin were aware of his secret from the beginning? I mean, it's probably just me, but Aladdin didn't seem as shocked as the other non-slave members did during the confession. I kinda wouldn't be surprised if him and the other former slaves kept their mouths shut out of respect for their captain......
Not quite. It is entirely reasonable that they didn't know. Being a slave isn't like being a celebrity. Him being a slave won't have been announced to the whole slave community and there was no central slave storage area where rumours among slaves will spread.
Each slave/ herd of slaves were probably kept with their masters with no outside news other than the snippets they overhear while being tortured/used/displayed. I certainly don't see them reading the list of slaves for sale or the newspapers.
Not to mention that as slaves, they probably didn't care to find out or remember the list of slaves caught. Their concern would be either staying alive/unscath or escaping. Or for those who no longer have the willpower, nothing matters.
This arc surprisingly forced me to show Arlong some sympathy.We all knew him as a racist sick psychopath and I hated him since then, but now he has enough reasons.Even that he was rushy and careless, he never went up against Fisher Tiger when it comes to human slaying and thats impressive.After seeing him gone all the way back to island to avenge Tiger...he must've really respected Tiger and his ideas to the point of forgetting his own racist ideals.Maybe Arlong had the potential to become the next Fisher Tiger if only their alliance survived longer.
Now I know why Jinbei had that Arlong flashback at Marineford gates.Merman Island arc can become my personal fav if Oda decides to go deeper into Arlong's mind and maybe adding him in later on.
Undertaker
2011-05-10, 18:43
^While I pretty much agree with your post, I just have to point out a little error: Koala wasn't with the Sun pirates for three years. Rather, they met her 3 years after the crew was first formed. Otherwise, exactly how much time she spent with them was never specified (though I'm pretty sure it was for less than ONE year, let alone three).....
Anyways, there's something that recently occurred to me: Since Tiger was revealed to be a former slave himself, does this mean that other former slaves like Aladdin were aware of his secret from the beginning? I mean, it's probably just me, but Aladdin didn't seem as shocked as the other non-slave members did during the confession. I kinda wouldn't be surprised if him and the other former slaves kept their mouths shut out of respect for their captain......
Must of been mis-type, I meant after those threes years and then when Koala come aboard...
As for Fisher Tiger's confession, I don't know if the other former slave knew, but I start to question the whole "scale up the Redline" thing itself. IMO, to accomplish that feat, it'll take at least same level of strength as say Rayleigh, Garp, 3 Admirals, if not the level of WB and Roger, and from what we are shown so far, Fisher Tiger is not at that level, even if he is stronger than current Jinbe. (and even that's arguable considering all this happened well over 10 years ago and Jinbe should be stronger now compare to then.)
After all, Fisher Tiger was captured and sold as slave, and was then seriously injured by the Marines. Granted it was an ambush, but it was not Buster Call and it didn't seem to be that large a force (no worse that what Luffy, Kid and Law faced in Shanbody and all three were confident they can escape even without the help of the other two.) Not to mention there was no big-name marine other than Strawberry who, IMO, is more or less second-rate marine behind likes of Aoikiji, Garp, etc.
It is hard to think that Fisher Tiger was able to assault Majorie and release all the slaves by himself if he can't handle Strawberry and break through the ambush with relative ease (or at least with less injuries).
With the way WG are handling things and how former slave tends to try to cover up those shames like Hancock and himself did. I'm begging to think what was being described as "assault & rescue" by Fisher Tiger was actually Fisher Tiger escaping, and during his own escape he decided to free other slaves as well similar to the way Luffy escapes Impel Down.
Not quite. It is entirely reasonable that they didn't know. Being a slave isn't like being a celebrity. Him being a slave won't have been announced to the whole slave community and there was no central slave storage area where rumours among slaves will spread.
Each slave/ herd of slaves were probably kept with their masters with no outside news other than the snippets they overhear while being tortured/used/displayed. I certainly don't see them reading the list of slaves for sale or the newspapers.
Not to mention that as slaves, they probably didn't care to find out or remember the list of slaves caught. Their concern would be either staying alive/unscath or escaping. Or for those who no longer have the willpower, nothing matters.
Except Fisher Tiger is pretty well known among Fishmen, evidently from the reception he got when he returned and the fact he seem to able to gain audience with Neptune with ease and both Neptune and Otohime appear to know him personally. Not to mention based on what was said back by that old Tenryuubito back in Shabondy, they seem to like to use Fishmen as mounts it won't suprise me if "some" of former fishmen slaves knew but was hush about it due to both respect and shame.
This arc surprisingly forced me to show Arlong some sympathy.We all knew him as a racist sick psychopath and I hated him since then, but now he has enough reasons.Even that he was rushy and careless, he never went up against Fisher Tiger when it comes to human slaying and thats impressive.After seeing him gone all the way back to island to avenge Tiger...he must've really respected Tiger and his ideas to the point of forgetting his own racist ideals.Maybe Arlong had the potential to become the next Fisher Tiger if only their alliance survived longer.
Now I know why Jinbei had that Arlong flashback at Marineford gates.Merman Island arc can become my personal fav if Oda decides to go deeper into Arlong's mind and maybe adding him in later on.
I won't go that far though, Arlong might have some reason for his actions later, the problem still lies that he choose to ignore the possible good in human during their travel while Jinbe (and other crew members) learns the opposite. I can understand the reason of his action, but I still don't sympathize him. It's like I can understand why Hitler or Mao or other dictator/tyrants did what they did, but I don't sympathize them one bit.
That reminds me, that Fishermen Karate guy who ended up with Arlong was also in the flashback, and I didn't remeber he been "too much" of an ass back in Arlong Arc as well. Maybe other than Arlong himself, none of his Key members were really that far gone and the only reason they followed Arlong was as Hachi said because they grew up together.
It is hard to think that Fisher Tiger was able to assault Majorie and release all the slaves by himself if he can't handle Strawberry and break through the ambush with relative ease (or at least with less injuries).
Well, remember that Strawberry didn't even attack Tiger, it was a bunch of grunts that pumped him full of lead. If Strawberry were solo, Tiger should be more than able to handle him since we DID see him beat up a RA just last chapter......
But enough of that for now. It's that time of week again..... I believe you guys know the drill by now. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=104099) ;)
Undertaker
2011-05-11, 01:52
True, but when did those leads ever bother mid-to-top tier characters in OP? Not counting Luffy, Zoro, Franky, and Brook. I can see Sanji and even Robin and Chopper breakthrough that ambush or at least made a run for it pre-timeskip. (minus Strawberry)
paradox13
2011-05-15, 18:22
Well, remember that Strawberry didn't even attack Tiger
Since the assault was mostly half off panel, we wouldn't know if Strawberry attacked him.
I would think that its plausible he would, or else I don't believe FT would've been taken down so easily.
james0246
2011-05-15, 23:47
I would think that its plausible he would, or else I don't believe FT would've been taken down so easily.
Since we were never really given an indication as to Fisher Tiger's strength, I am unclear why it would be "implausible" for a group of marines to kill him without the help of a VA. Additionally, we have no idea how "easily" Tiger was taken down (considering he escaped the ambush, it is entirely possible he defeated all the marines (including a VA), and then later died from his hatred.)
Undertaker
2011-05-16, 04:01
We're basing on the fat the he apparently scaled up Red Line, assaulted Mariejoe, and escaped with all slave and live to tell about it. With how fast Marines mobilizes against Luffy and co. and Mariejoe is the city where Tenryubito lives. I think it's reasonable to assume Fisher Tiger to be at least as strong as Marco, Mihawk, Reyligh, Garp, Sengoku, and admirals if not quite WB and Roger level.
As for ambush, we did see a bloody Fish Tiger, relatively unharmed marines, and "unscratched" head-shot of Strawberry. Also, Fisher Tiger didn't escape the ambush, the chapter did point out that Jinbe did led a group of Sun Pirates to help while Arlong was directing the assult on the Marine battleship.
Either way that ambush seem as little weak to me and was enough to make to doubt Fisher Tiger's relative strength to other top characters in OP and the accuracy of his deed on Mariejoe.
After all that ambush was not even Buster Call, and as I mentioned, I can imagine Pre-timeskip Luffy, Zoro and Sanji escapes that with less injures. And if you take out Strawberry, I can even see Frankie, Brook, Robin and Chopper does the same.
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