Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Pellissier

2011-06-05, 03:39

Welcome to the discussion thread for Hanasaku Iroha, Episode 10.

Thread Guidelines
Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
Spoilers or hints about future events must not be posted in this thread.
If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_vb_pm_explain), or seek out a more appropriate thread.
Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Please try to keep the discussion on-topic.
Do not post multiple times in a row. Please edit your existing post if you wish to add additional thoughts.

Episode Thread Spoiler Policy

Any comment that discloses events, characters, plot or other information before it is revealed in the anime is expressly forbidden whether or not it is behind spoiler tags.
Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
Please consult the AnimeSuki Spoiler Policy (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=animesuki_faq#faq_spoilerpolicy) for more information.
Adding a Spoiler tag:

spoiler.gif
Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found
on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a useful title!
Please use the Report button if you see any inappropriate spoilers:

report.gif
Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators
locate and deal with problems quickly.
Posting inappropriate spoilers may result in a ban.
Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.

.x.crii.x.

2011-06-05, 08:32

Can´t wait till the subs come out. 8D

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/unbroken_eternity/1307279469094.jpg
http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/unbroken_eternity/1307279468016.jpg
http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/unbroken_eternity/1307279502846.jpg

Pocari_Sweat

2011-06-05, 08:57

Did you actually watch raws cause you were impatient :3?

.x.crii.x.

2011-06-05, 09:00

Nah, I just stalked the 2chan thread. xD;;

I wish I had just woken up at 10 a.m. That's around the time the subs are out so I don´t have to wait. :P But noooo, I just had to wake up early today. =.=;;

Freeter

2011-06-05, 09:39

That entire scene between Tohru and Ohana was gold. Never thought watching someone blow on soup could be so erotic :heh:

Poor Minchi, not only is she starting to realize Tohru's into Ohana, but she's still screwing up at her job. Too bad she didn't go through with the marker on Ohana's face, but that probably would have pissed off Nako and Tohru and get her fired :heh:

Tomoe and the manager teaming up on Jiroumaru and the other guy for trying to get up in Ohana's business, scary combination indeed :cool:

Did anyone else get Jigoku Shoujo vibes during the whole Ko scene? Poor guy is now a dead end to her and he doesn't even realize it :heh: But he might have a chance in the preview, unless his phone conveniently dies out :heh:

Midonin

2011-06-05, 09:57

Come on, Jiromaru. I believe in you as an author. But both you and Tamaizumi are trying to go with old people as your inspiration, with varying results. Run it through a few more drafts first. As for Ohana, while I do appreciate her "do what must be done" style of thinking, that doesn't mean she should jump to conclusions and try to leave either. I can understand wanting to work when you're sick to the point of being bedridden, well, there are things that must not be done. Shine, Ohana. Shine like you always wanted to - your greatest enemy is yourself.

DragoonKain3

2011-06-05, 10:06

On one hand, the end of the episode was disturbing for me as it shows Ko disappearing with Ohana crying. On the other hand, its still Ko who she writes to if she needs to get something off her chest, and the preview has her desperately shouting at him asking for help. What to think... XD

And shoo Toru, just be happy with Minchi lol. I knew you were trouble from episode one. :heh:

.x.crii.x.

2011-06-05, 10:26

xDD Its so obvious Tooru has fallen for Ohana. And the porridge scene, GOLD. xDD I was laughing so hard all through it. Oh Tooru, you are such a fool when in love. xD

And the ending scene with Ohana and Ko...foreshadowing that she's chosen Kissuiso over him? O:

Midnight Bliss

2011-06-05, 10:35

^
Yes, I think that's what it's saying. Between choosing Ko and everyone at Kissuiso or Kissuiso itself, she would now choose Kissuiso.

Well, we got trolled since the very beginning. Tooru is definitely falling badly for Ohana fast, though. He got flustered all over the place when he went to visit her, and when he heard she collapsed he was the one that shouted in concern, which Minko noticed throughout the whole episode already that he likes Ohana and is getting extremely jelly. FABULOUS. <3 Tooru and Ohana are just too cute. I love how he was the first one that was extremely serious and concerned about her and immediately started planning what to cook for her.

Not sure what to make of next week's preview, but it ends with Ohana shouting at Ko to help her. I think it'll be a flashback episode about her life before the start of the series when she moves to Kissuiso. It would be a bit boring, imo.

This episode actually confused me though. Like the whole change of the scenes without knowing what's going on, and the dreams she had as well as Minko's. And the shrine girl, what's up with her? Hope we'll know soon in the future. Those small little things sometimes get to bother me.

Peanutbutter

2011-06-05, 10:36

And this episode was supposed to be godly...? Huh?

Pretty much a meh episode with a few weird scene transitions, namely, Ohana suddenly walking around, and into the kitchen then switching back to her, and the dreams etc.

Looks like there will be discussion on a few things, namely, the symbolism of the girl and the fox, and Kou-chan's continued role in this, and of course, Tohru's outright blushing at Ohana (those lips were gorgeous though.)

ipodi

2011-06-05, 10:38

But he might have a chance in the preview, unless his phone conveniently dies out :heh:

It does not appear that the message has been sent out, as I see it.
This episode was hyped up before it got aired, now I felt I had been trolled majorly. It did not foreshadow any new major conflicts ahead nor has any of the old conflicts (romance, Ohana's relationship with her mom) moved forward or been resolved. This is still a charming episode, but the hype is way overblown.

revive4563

2011-06-05, 10:42

Nah, I just stalked the 2chan thread. xD;;

You are a true mania as I thought.:p

-Silent Ohana is 100 times cuter than when she's loud.

-But Minko is cuter.

-Calm down, Tohru.

-Nako, don't turn on TV.

-Jiroumaru is real thing.

-Ohana graduated from Ko-chan, at last. Bye bye Ko-chan. You have a glasses girl.

.x.crii.x.

2011-06-05, 10:45

lol revive, I'm sorry. I was just impatient. xD;;

Next episode seems like it´ll be a flashback. And Ohana finally over Ko? O: Makes me wonder. Though that ending scene with her and Ko really forshadowed her going farther and farther away from him.

And Minko has realized that Tooru is "goo goo ga ga" over Ohana. I did kind of feel a bit bad for her, but alas, heartbreaks happen. xD;;

Pocari_Sweat

2011-06-05, 10:55

Er... Nothing happened this episode?

So I guess the "godly" part Mishida Kel was referring to was just the animation. It was indeed very pretty. However, this episode felt like a typical episode from Aria more than anything. It was peaceful, soothing, lighthearted but nothing over-the-top, but there wasn't anything outstanding that happened apart from:

It's pretty obvious by now that Tooru has hardcore fallen for Ohana

Was expecting some drama given last week's preview, but it turned out to be a bait and switch. Sigh.

TheEroKing

2011-06-05, 10:59

http://i.imgur.com/KarX2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IO1WZ.jpg

MeoTwister5

2011-06-05, 11:13

Goddammit Ko don't give up on her!

Comments tomorrow after I stop raging and rooting for the underdog.

marcosius

2011-06-05, 11:18

Abstract of the episode
Gomene Ko-chan, Kissuiso daisuki

Midnight Bliss

2011-06-05, 11:27

Goddammit Ko don't give up on her!

Comments tomorrow after I stop raging and rooting for the underdog.

Actually, I think it's HER giving up on him... :D

deadite

2011-06-05, 11:28

Ohana's dream really creeped me out especially with the loli goddess and the fox. I wonder if that will become important later for the festival.

Arabesque

2011-06-05, 11:28

What a strange episode.

I mean, I liked it a lot. The direction of the episode in particular was pretty great, the artwork was (as usual) excellent, and as acejem pointed out this was very Aria like in mood, so I felt pretty relaxed watching it. It's the second episode I liked this week along with AnoHana and rated with 10, so overall I was pretty satisfied after last week where I was at a loss for words with episode 9.

But damn if that wasn't weird. What unfolded here was arguably pretty ... surreal? Yeah, I think it was pretty surreal overall. Really loved it, but this is the second time in a row that Iroha had left me feeling strange.

Must dig deeper apparently.

Kanon

2011-06-05, 11:34

It does not appear that the message has been sent out, as I see it.
This episode was hyped up before it got aired, now I felt I had been trolled majorly. It did not foreshadow any new major conflicts ahead nor has any of the old conflicts (romance, Ohana's relationship with her mom) moved forward or been resolved. This is still a charming episode, but the hype is way overblown.

Watching the preview for episode 11 made me feel like the comment was off by one episode. Unless the preview is incredibly misleading, next week is when shit will hit the fan.

The only thing special about episode 10 is that it showed an insecure, weakened and depressed Ohana as opposed to the usual cheerful, optimistic, and energetic Ohana. That made for an interesting change of pace.

Tooru has definitely fallen head over heels for Ohana, and I can't blame him. It's almost impossible not to like such an adorable person. Futhermore, she was pretty hot (not pun intended... nah, of course it was intended) in this episode, the porridge scene was very erotic.

Jiromaru was hilarious as usual. "Oh, this 16-year-old is sick? I'd better go read her a porn novel! The main character of this novel is based on her grandmother too, I'm sure it will cheer her up to hear about her grandmother getting bukkaked!"

Nakochi was as lovely as ever and Minko, although she obviously feels jealous, was also pretty kind to Ohana. It's obvious she's grown to like her.

The shrine scenes were... weird. I was particularly creeped out by the stalker loli and the fox. It seems like Ohana has been torn between the inn and Ko for a while, and eventually chose Kissuiso over him. Huhu, Ko's gonna friendzoned!

Austin1

2011-06-05, 11:43

orion

2011-06-05, 11:53

Tohru is like 23 and he is going after a 16 year old. What a pedo.

I feel like one of two things might happen when Ohana runs to Ko when she is upset. I feel he might comfort her hopefully so she recognizes his feelings or blow up at her because she only communicates with him when she is having problems. It seems kinda like Ohana just uses Ko.

Not pedo for a 23 yo to go after a 16 yo. It's just a 7 yr age difference. She's an adult in 2 yrs.

I agree that Ko is being used as an emergency crutch like that best friend or relative who is far away that you only call when it's important.

Anh_Minh

2011-06-05, 11:57

Two remarks on their care for Ohana:
- who the hell let creepy men into the room of a sick, helpless Ohana? And yes, I count Tooru as a 0.7 Jirou on the creepy scale. Loved the manager and Tomoe's "Ohana doesn't need your crap" scene at the end, though. At least, the uncle was bringing her food, but he probably couldn't have resisted the urge to tease her. And Jiroumaru, seriously? The hell?
- Can't they leave the remote next to her hand, instead of forcing her to get off her bed to turn the TV on or off? The whole point of a remote is to not have to do that.

Minchi realized Tooru liked Ohana, but she didn't take it out on her. Progress!

That dream sequence was really bad for Ko. But the preview sounded good. Hm.

serenade_beta

2011-06-05, 11:59

I felt this episode was probably the most frozen episode so far.
You get to see the girls act all nice to each other. Hoorah...?
Frozen as in, practically none of the story moved at all. Except that Kou-chan seemingly died and his spirit is talking to Ohana in her dreams and trying to drag her to hell too.

This episode was hyped up before it got aired, now I felt I had been trolled majorly. It did not foreshadow any new major conflicts ahead nor has any of the old conflicts (romance, Ohana's relationship with her mom) moved forward or been resolved. This is still a charming episode, but the hype is way overblown.

Well, the problem with the hype was that it came from Mel.
And the way he hyped it up wasn't that it was amazing story-wise, but just very appealing to otaku... You know, in that way.
People are disappointed elsewhere too, by the way.

Arabesque

2011-06-05, 12:10

I can't say I'm disappointed. On the contrary I loved the episode, but there was something about it that was very strange and made me go ''what am I watching?''

I might need to re-watch it again.

ipodi

2011-06-05, 12:13

Watching the preview for episode 11 made me feel like the comment was off by one episode. Unless the preview is incredibly misleading, next week is when shit will hit the fan.

I have learned not to trust the previews anymore.

ID555

2011-06-05, 12:22

What I take away from this episode is that Tooru for some reason found Ohana's lips interesting... I have no idea why.

On next week's preview - the calling out to Kou may just be a flashback. Either way, should be more... exciting than this week's episode.

Decagon

2011-06-05, 12:48

Ohana! If Tooru makes you something and puts his special sauce on it, don't eat it!!

Rei.K

2011-06-05, 13:38

Sure, nothing really moved forward plot wise except more confirmation regarding Tohru's feelings for Ohana but damn, that was such a cute episode.
Ohana crying and Nako going out of her usual way to reassure her, that was such a touching scene. I mean, it's probably impossible to remain passive when a character as lovable as Ohana reacts like this.

Feeling bad for Minko though. But she would have probably noticed sooner or later. The sooner the better I guess. So far she's taking it quite well, but that's maybe because she might still think she's somehow mistaken. You know. Love blinds people, like they say.

I wasn't disappointed at all by this ep because I just didn't jump into the hype wagon. I guess not watching previews helps.

sikvod00

2011-06-05, 14:24

I've never liked Minchi very much due to her prickly attitude , but oh man did I feel sorry for her this episode. She was genuinely worried about Ohana being sick but at the same time had to deal with Tohru being obsessed with Ohana as well. Talk about conflicted emotions! But I am glad that in the end she didn't let her jealousy get the best of her, and managed to comfort a friend.

As for the preview, it's not a straight-up flashback. It looks like it deals with Ohana having trouble in the present with someone (at school?) and having flashbacks of a similar situation.

Kaoru Chujo

2011-06-05, 14:31

Loved the episode. Beautiful tone and feeling. And Itou Kanae's sick/sleepy voice was wonderful.

Personally, I feel as if the whole increasing distance from Kou thing is a troll, and she will end up with him. But if they go the other way and there really is increasing separation, that would be pretty moving, too. Sad and beautiful.

Who is the little dark-haired girl in the shrine? Kid Minchi? Ohana's mother? Her grandmother? Her true self?

I noticed the episode was written by Nishimura Junji (director of Simoun, true tears, etc.). Works for me.

Storyboard, Shinohara Toshiya (director of Bantorra, Kuroshitsuji). Episode direction, Hanyuu Naoyasu (director of Great Teacher Onizuka).

I guess the main director is involved in everything: Andou Masahiro (director of Canaan). And the lead writer: Okada Mari (Sketchbook, true tears, Kodomo no Jikan, Vampire Knight, Kuroshitsuji, Canaan, Bantorra, Hourou Musuko, Fractale, Gosick...many episodes of Simoun.).

Triple_R

2011-06-05, 14:57

That was a refreshing, relaxing, rewarding watch. Sweetly sublime sentimental charm to end off the weekend with.

Slight superfluous streaks here and there, though, so I'll settle on 9/10 for this episode.

More thoughts below...

The first thing I want to mention here is the artwork and the animation.

That is genuinely godly.

The realistic, pristine architecture, and its serene surrounding setting, are truly a pleasure to behold, and watch animated.

In particular, I very much liked the opening scene where Ohana is cleaning that large, spacious hallway. The way the artwork, animation, and direction of that scene coalesced together left me feeling like I was actually there. And that's an absolutely amazing achievement for an animated work to pull off.

This has become one of those very rare anime shows that I'd watch, and like a lot, for the artwork and animation alone, even if I found the anime otherwise dull or boring.

Thankfully, though, I also find Hanasaku Iroha to be a frequently engaging watch.

Granted, the mood in this episode was decidedly low-key, and it probably needed the glorious artwork and animation to help accomplish its subtle aims, but accomplish them it did.

In particular, I found Ohana's two dreams so very telling and poignant.

This episode makes it crystal clear how, in Ohana's mind, Ko now represents her pre-Kissuiso past. Now there's a couple competing ways of interpreting this:

1. Ohana is emotionally drifting farther and farther away from her former world, including Ko. This is setting the stage for a romance between her and Tohru.

2. Ko is the one element of her pre-Kissuiso past that Ohana dearly misses. And that's why she cries in her second dream. Kissuiso now means more to Ohana than Ko alone does, but in her ideal world, Ko would still be part of her day-to-day life.

What I think Okada might do is leave the viewer guessing as to which of these two interpretations is the correct one, and then have the anime essentially confirm one or the other near or at the end of the anime.

In addition to the above, this episode also makes it plainly clear, but in an eminently realistic fashion, that as much as Ohana loves Kissuiso, the other people at Kissuiso are similarly coming to love her. Even Minchi was downright nice to her in this episode. The Tohru and Nako moments with Ohana were, in particular, very amusing and heartwarming.

One slight specific critique though: I question the wisdom of having the Management Consultant as a permanent cast member, which this episode suggests may be happening. A character like her works best as a recurring character, in my view, not as a cast fixture.

Still, I'm very much looking forward to how Okada continues to intermix character development with relationship development for Ohana.

Guardian Enzo

2011-06-05, 15:00

Triple_R

2011-06-05, 15:28

I did find the whole sequence with Ohana concluding she was no longer needed a bit flimsy and overwrought.

I actually never had a problem with that.

Nako's choice of words there really could have been much better. It read to me like how an insult would, though that's obviously not what Nako intended.

Still, precisely because it came from Nako, and clearly wasn't mean-spirited at all (bit ironically intended to comfort), Ohana probably felt there was some painful truth to Nako's comments.

Feeling as though you're an easily expendable part of a team is a horrible feeling, and many people have experienced that at least at some point in their lives. That's a big part of the reason why the emotionality of this episode resonated nicely with me. Ohana's crying at the end was maybe a bit much, I'll admit, but the emotional pain of her situation was palpable to me.

Guardian Enzo

2011-06-05, 15:35

frubam

2011-06-05, 15:42

X03!!!!
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/583/hgjkkjlhfhjugjghj.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/195/hgjkkjlhfhjugjghj.jpg/)
Isn't that what they call 'sex hair' or something?

I think the whole Ko-drifting-away thing is being looked upon too negatively. Isn't this a sign that she wants to go back to Ko? The fact that the dreaming sequence constituted that more 'she really wanted to be with Kou' rather than 'her giving up Kou for Kissuiso'. This is rather understandable. Her mother technically left her behind and Kou told her to go ahead and leave(1st ep). Now, she's a part of the lifestyle at the inn and people tell her she's needed. Therefore, she'll remain 'where she's needed' over 'where she wants to go', which is why she cried at the end. I'd like to remain optimistic about the whole thing =03.

Also, lol'd at the Jirou/Uncle(name?) backing away from the manager and Tomoe. That was cute.

And Tohru doesn't acquire any Ohana points this episode. Doesn't look too good for him :)(yes, I'm smiling).

ThereminVox

2011-06-05, 15:44

Am I the only one who thinks we're getting seriously ribbed by this episode? I genuinely don't think we're supposed to know what really happened and what was a fever dream.

The TV scene early on where Ohana sees (imagines seeing?) a drama about a hotel, and gets confused if the phone is ringing by her head, or on the television told me right away that the episode we were about to see either doesn't really happen, or happens differently from the way Ohana perceives it. Some of it may be dreams influenced by whatever was on TV at the time.

I've only seen the episode once, but I wouldn't be surprised if the timeline doesn't scan properly when it's re-arranged, meaning that it's deliberately unsolvable. Am I wrong, or does Minko's fish get cooked at the wrong time? And Ohana mutters to herself an order regarding ham sandwiches, which Toohru later references, or does she talk to him about them earlier in the day, and I just missed that part? It just seems suspicious that he'd talk about those, unless it's to make us think "Wait, when did she tell him about that?"

I don't think I quite trust anything I saw where Ohana was present, except maybe the last scene with Minko and Nako, after the marker scene (Minko's imagination, or Ohana's?). Some of it probably really happened, but I'll bet some of it didn't.

Bonus points for the "D'awwwww" factor of Nako going deredere for Ohana when uncle asked if she didn't need her anymore.

I did find the whole sequence with Ohana concluding she was no longer needed a bit flimsy and overwrought. Really, that was a massive overreaction even for someone with a fever - and it came totally out of the blue as well.

I can buy it as an irrational delusion brought on by the fever, but I guess they did play it up as being genuine character development. I guess it all depends on how much you believe her feelings of being unneeded were related to the fever.

Triple_R

2011-06-05, 15:54

Fair enough - didn't work for me, though. I do find this show has a tendency to manipulate coincidence and character behavior for dramatic expediency, and this felt like an example for me. Especially give last week's events where she (and everyone) was utterly indispensable.

That is a very good point, I have to admit.

Yeah, the timing of this could have been better given what you wrote there.

I did enjoy lots of the episode, though. I kept wondering why Nako was turning the TV on, and I loved the explanation. This was probably Nako's best episode for me, in fact. But I was really creeped out by Jiromaru walking into a feverish 16 year-old's room to read her his porn. I know he's supposed to be comic relief, but I don't find him funny - and that was downright disturbing.

Totally agree with you on everything here.

Some characters (like Jiromaru and the Management Consultant) are a bit overused in this anime, imo.

It's not a big deal or anything, but given we do have a large cast here, I'd rather characters with more limited range (like Jiromaru and the Management Consultant) to be used more sparingly. Characters like Jiromaru and the Management Consultant can get old very fast if you use them too much, or they could get watered down into plain "normalcy" in order to compensate for their lack of range.

Anh_Minh

2011-06-05, 16:09

1. Ohana is emotionally drifting farther and farther away from her former world, including Ko. This is setting the stage for a romance between her and Tohru.

The scene with Ohana and Tohru looked like more of his misinterpreting signals to me. Or rather, the consequences of it. He's been priming himself to believe she'd fallen for him for some time now.

I did find the whole sequence with Ohana concluding she was no longer needed a bit flimsy and overwrought. Really, that was a massive overreaction even for someone with a fever - and it came totally out of the blue as well.

She'd been feeling that way for some time, though. That's why she was working so hard, to carve a place for herself. The fever and Nako's unfortunate reassurances just compounded the problem.

Tsuyoshi

2011-06-05, 16:13

Wonderful episode! There were quite a number of heartwarming moments and a number of scenes where I had to simply go "wtf mate" and that was especially the case with Jiromaru bringing in his fail porn book to read it to Ohana. That's really not something you do when a girl is sick :heh: On the upside, we got to see quite a number of shots with a young Manager, and by the gods, she was stunning!

This episode really showed that a number of characters made leaps and bounds in terms of progress, especially Minko. Throughout the ep, Tohru gave some pretty clear signs that he likes Ohana, even when she's not around. Despite this, Minko didn't have a go at her and instead became more concerned about how she was feeling. The fact she thought of pulling a prank and overcame herself in that sense really shows how much her attittude toward Ohana changed. The dream sequences were pretty well thought out. I'm not sure who that girl and the fox were, but I think that was the angel or godess that Nako referred to earlier in the series in reference to the lights on the walkway, and how lighting them brings good fortune in matters of love.

In terms of Ohana's insecurities about how useful she is to Kissuiso, the thing is that when someone has a high fever, they tend to overthink things or feel more emotional than they normally are, and may end up misunderstanding certain things. While Nako's choice of words could've been better at first, Ohana's fever also played a part in it but the last dream sequence showed that Nako's later words did reach her in the end, and it does seem more and more as though Ohana's leaving her past life behind, although she is feeling some regret with it.

Roger Rambo

2011-06-05, 16:16

Interesting ep, but there's some relationship trolling going on here. We're less than halfway through - as anyone who survived a series shipping series (which I still don't think this is) can tell you, the worst thing that can happen is peaking too soon. It was a big week for Tohru and seemingly bad for Kou, but it's too early to call that definitive. There's also no reason to conclude Ohana has any feelings for Tohru whatsoever.
I'd hardly call showing a long distance relationship falling apart trolling :p

But really. We're almost at the halfway point in the series, and Ko's recent connection attempt with Ohana went south. As you said. This isn't a shipping series. So things OTHER that Ohana's relationship with Ko are going to be dealt with. And I can't help but think...how much more different will Ohana be when she finally gets face to face with Ko again? It's questionable how close they are to each other at this point. This latest episode has all this symbolism inside Ohana's mind indicating that she might not feel as reliant on Ko as she used to.

And I don't really see what Ohana's lack of romantic affection for Tohru at this point helps Ko out at all. From my perspective, this theoretical relationship is already spiraling down to the ground independent of Tohru. Tohru shipping it out with Minchi doesn't make the odds for OhanaXKo much better.

I did find the whole sequence with Ohana concluding she was no longer needed a bit flimsy and overwrought. Really, that was a massive overreaction even for someone with a fever - and it came totally out of the blue as well.
People with fevers are stupid and melodramatic :p Ohana was REALLY out of it for awhile there.

Guardian Enzo

2011-06-05, 16:35

I'd hardly call showing a long distance relationship falling apart trolling :p

But really. We're almost at the halfway point in the series, and Ko's recent connection attempt with Ohana went south. As you said. This isn't a shipping series. So things OTHER that Ohana's relationship with Ko are going to be dealt with. And I can't help but think...how much more different will Ohana be when she finally gets face to face with Ko again? It's questionable how close they are to each other at this point. This latest episode has all this symbolism inside Ohana's mind indicating that she might not feel as reliant on Ko as she used to.

And I don't really see what Ohana's lack of romantic affection for Tohru at this point helps Ko out at all. From my perspective, this theoretical relationship is already spiraling down to the ground independent of Tohru. Tohru shipping it out with Minchi doesn't make the odds for OhanaXKo much better.

People with fevers are stupid and melodramatic :p Ohana was REALLY out of it for awhile there.

People on this series are often stupid and melodramatic if it's necessary for a plot point... :heh:

I think it's necessary to view the Kou and Tohru situations as independent of each other, as it's not an either/or situation - "none of the above" is still the favorite IMO. That's why I think Ohana's total lack of interest in Tohru is relevant whether it helps Kou or not.

That said, Kou was the one who retreated on his own volition - we just don't know how Ohana would have reacted if she'd seen him. Far, far too much effort has been put into that plot for it to simply become irrelevant and disappear this far from the end. One way or the other, that relationship is going to be critical to the ultimate resolution of things.

Dawnstorm

2011-06-05, 16:51

I don't know. Not being needed might be a deep-seated fear with Ohana. Remember that her mother didn't exactly shower her with love, and at home she made herself useful. That could well have led to a basic habit: if I'm useless they're not going to tolerate me. That's also consistent with Ohana's over-the-top reaction to the old lady on the train in ep1: "I always wanted to meet an old lady who gives you candy." Like that's a mystical beast she's heard of only in stories. And then she comes to Kissuiso, and the first thing her grandmother gives her is a bucket. Business as usual.

Then, in defiance, she works harder than anyone expects and creats a place for herself. It's not inconcievable that, deep down, she feels her value is what is she does, rather than who she is. And if what she does could be done by others just as well...

The outburst worked well for me. Ohana's been putting on a brave face, and not only at Kissuiso. It seems that the only person who gave her a sense of worth for who she is is Kou. So those fever dreams about that fox-shrine fit right in. She's slowly growing a sense of self-worth based on relationships rather than utility value. That's gotta hurt. The dream, then, makes Kou lose his special status, but - on the other hand - it takes a lot of potential pressure from him. Ohana might now start to see him differently, since the support-system function is now less important. It can go either way: growing distance or a new closeness (maybe kickstarted by that confession, which absolutely surprised Ohana).

Loved the episode.

[Side note: Happy Nako makes me happy. :D ]

Triple_R

2011-06-05, 16:53

People on this series are often stupid and melodramatic if it's necessary for a plot point... :heh:

I think it's necessary to view the Kou and Tohru situations as independent of each other, as it's not an either/or situation - "none of the above" is still the favorite IMO. That's why I think Ohana's total lack of interest in Tohru is relevant whether it helps Kou or not.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Why exactly did Ohana find it necessary to personally chase down Tohru not once, but twice? Is it really such a stretch to think that maybe this means that Ohana does have some interest in Tohru?

Also...

That said, Kou was the one who retreated on his own volition - we just don't know how Ohana would have reacted if she'd seen him. Far, far too much effort has been put into that plot for it to simply become irrelevant and disappear this far from the end. One way or the other, that relationship is going to be critical to the ultimate resolution of things.

Which is why I find your "none of the above" prediction a bit odd. What total trolling from Okada if that's how it ends. :heh:

Anh_Minh

2011-06-05, 17:10

That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Why exactly did Ohana find it necessary to personally chase down Tohru not once, but twice? Is it really such a stretch to think that maybe this means that Ohana does have some interest in Tohru?

Because Ohana's the type that does things herself. In neither case was she interested in Tohru for himself. The first time, she only cared because Minchi did. The second time, they just needed a cook. She'd have been just as desperate if Ren had gone to a wedding and Tohru was breaking down in the kitchen. (But of course, Ren would have been a lot less likely to misinterpret it...)

Grey

2011-06-05, 17:11

That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Why exactly did Ohana find it necessary to personally chase down Tohru not once, but twice? Is it really such a stretch to think that maybe this means that Ohana does have some interest in Tohru?
No, it was a fair call. Ohana's an impulsive do-it-yourself girl who works hard for Kissuiso. Chasing down Tohru fit with that. Not to mention she's been cheering on Minko's interest in Tohru from the start. IIRC, Minko's interest in Tohru was in fact the main reason Ohana charged out after Tohru the first time.

Sure, the story could spin that later as hidden interest. But right now Ohana's shown no real interest.

Most anime/manga aren't really that subtle about who major characters like.

Roger Rambo

2011-06-05, 17:14

I think it's necessary to view the Kou and Tohru situations as independent of each other, as it's not an either/or situation - "none of the above" is still the favorite IMO. That's why I think Ohana's total lack of interest in Tohru is relevant whether it helps Kou or not. The fact that they can be viewed independently is a sign that Ohana and Ko is in atrocious shape. :p

If Ko really had a chance with Ohana at this point, the the fact that Ohana WAS growing more at ease with another guy who was in love with her WOULD be a relevant point.

The fact that Ko is so far out of the equation is something that more and more I feel the show is trying to elaborate on.
That said, Kou was the one who retreated on his own volition - we just don't know how Ohana would have reacted if she'd seen him. Far, far too much effort has been put into that plot for it to simply become irrelevant and disappear this far from the end. One way or the other, that relationship is going to be critical to the ultimate resolution of things.Well, how Ohana would have reacted at that point in time isn't much tangent to who she gets with by the end of the series. Because she didn't see Ko that day, and likely won't for quite awhile.

But yes. Ko is probably going to tie in heavily towards the end of the series...though more likely than not in the context of Ohana finally realizing that everything from her old life really is gone now.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Why exactly did Ohana find it necessary to personally chase down Tohru not once, but twice? Is it really such a stretch to think that maybe this means that Ohana does have some interest in Tohru?
Well to be fair she WAS trying to do it the first time for Minko...then later for the Inn as a whole. Tohru might be thinking he's getting a few more signals than he is.

Though I'll point out that Ohana does have a much more positive outlook of Tohru than she did previously. Though right now it seems to be manifesting into more of a "Wow! He's actually not to bad of a guy...for Minchi".

At this point my bet is that Ohana will either end the series with Tohru or without coupling with anyone. It's the only realistic options. Ko just doesn't really plausibly factor in.

Leo_Otaku

2011-06-05, 17:22

I thought I heard her say Kaa-chan rather than Ko-chan at the end of the episode. Maybe that is just me?

Triple_R

2011-06-05, 17:37

Because Ohana's the type that does things herself. In neither case was she interested in Tohru for himself.

Come on. Even Grey admits the story could spin her personally chasing after Tohru twice as a sign of hidden interest.

And to both you and Grey: How often in anime is a cigar just a cigar, or a cake just a cake (especially when it comes to relationship issues)?

There's certainly nothing confirmed here, but there's enough reason for legitimate suspicion.

She'd have been just as desperate if Ren had gone to a wedding and Tohru was breaking down in the kitchen. (But of course, Ren would have been a lot less likely to misinterpret it...)

I'm not so sure about that myself. I think that some people are taking these events too much at face value. Okada's writing is usually more complex than that, in my view.

Guardian Enzo

2011-06-05, 17:42

RRR, I didn't say Ohana was going to end up with Kou - merely that the resolution of the relationship is going to be an integral part of the conclusion. I don't see that as an either/or at all - I still think "none of the above" fits in with that scenario just fine.

Any suggestion that Ohana is interested in Tohru is pure projection at this point - there's just no hard evidence, and as others have already said, trying to interpret Ohana chasing him down to help the inn as romantic interest sounds like wishful thinking to me. That's not to say she won't develop an interest later, and he's certainly warm for her form (whether a 23 year-old lusting after a 16 year-old is creepy is an individual call, I think) but I just don't buy that there's been a scrap of evidence to indicate she has interest.

ars89

2011-06-05, 17:49

Well Tohru has completely fallen for Ohana. His concern over her and that meal were significant gestures. Also him blushing pretty much sealed the deal.

Minchi has final figured it out that Tohru likes Ohana. Kind of feel sorry, but she should realize that Ohana doesn't like him.

Lol at Jiromaru story. Even grandma came in to check on her. Nako was great standing up and voicing her feelings to Ohana. Best was Tomoe and grandma getting rid of Jiromaru and her son.

Triple_R

2011-06-05, 17:49

RRR, I didn't say Ohana was going to end up with Kou - merely that the resolution of the relationship is going to be an integral part of the conclusion.

Given that Ko has an obvious crush on Ohana, and even went so far as to confess his feelings to her, that resolution would have to involve some sort of concrete response from Ohana to Ko pertaining to those romantic feelings, don't you think? In other words, an ultimate romantic rejection or acceptance.

So, "none of the above" means, for Ko at least, that she's going to flat-out reject him. Is that what you're predicting?

I don't see that as an either/or at all - I still think "none of the above" fits in with that scenario just fine.

I'd consider that a very unsatisfying ending given all of the romantic hints and shipping subplots of this anime. I would consider it massive trolling on Okada's part.

Any suggestion that Ohana is interested in Tohru is pure projection at this point - there's just no hard evidence, and as others have already said, trying to interpret Ohana chasing him down to help the inn as romantic interest sounds like wishful thinking to me.

If she had only done it once, I'd agree. But she did it twice, and with the two times not too far apart from one another. And in the second instance, there were (as many AS posters debated at length) much more logical ways that Ohana could have went about it. Oh, and the guy she chased down twice just happens to have a persistent crush on her...

You really think Okada isn't trying to foreshadow or hint at something there? It's quite the coincidence, otherwise, imo...

Reckoner

2011-06-05, 17:59

Usually I really adore these sorts of episodes, but taken in context of the entire series, it doesn't quite work as well.

For one thing, I almost feel like this was a natural lead up from episodes 1 and 2, except we were missing episodes in between that and episode 10. This Ohana is the same Ohana who we knew in episodes 1 and 2. The Ohana in episodes 3-9 is a far different, more evolved Ohana (A more boring one I must say as well).

Now it's not that I have a problem with this sort of Ohana, and if she stayed this way for the rest of the series, I'd be more than satisfied. It's just that again this show expresses a freaking IDENTITY CRISIS.

No really. This is the Ohana we came to knew in episodes 1 and 2. The same sort of paranoid, insecure Ohana that frankly is a little emotionally frustrated inside, despite the cheerful appearance on the outside. The Ohana in episodes 3-9 was more of a bullheaded girl who charged into situations no matter how silly, and was trying to be everyone's helper girl. She wasn't very emotionally complex at all. Really, while such characters are not necessarily bad, I much prefer this other Ohana. This Ohana has more depth.

The problem is trying to connect the two. The world in episodes 3-9 is usually far more zany (At times WAY TOO zany such as 3 and 7). Ohana's personality shifted to match these contrasting sides of the story, but this makes the story feel very unnatural. I mean, there was no good build up from the previous episodes that Ohana was this insecure about her worth to the Inn. It comes off as overwrought, especially considering how useful she was in the last couple episodes where as Guardian Enzo pointed out, she was truly indispensable.

I'm going to keep saying it despite people not wanting me to, but really, this show needs to stick with one style or this series will continue to be disorienting, slapping many viewers with jarring shifts in tone, direction, narrative, and characterization.

Other comments about the episode though is that it's nice to see Minko and Nako have a good moment with Ohana, even if Ohana's drama comes off as overwrought due to the previous episodes (But again, had there been more peisodes like 1 and 2 between those and episode 10 it would've been completely natural).

I'm fairly skeptical of these dream sequences that seem to foreshadow feelings and events to come. If they don't actually end up meaning anything, I'll likely look down on them as senseless wastes of time. For now I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.r

But otherwise still a fairly good episode, 8/10. I hope this leads to better things. While the previous two episodes were not bad themselves, I also don't think they represent the best of this series. I still think episodes 1 and 2, and now 10 (If I take 10 in a vacuum, but unfortunately I can't) represent the best of Hanasaku thus far.

Archon_Wing

2011-06-05, 18:10

Oh no! So on today's episode of "let's make Ohana miserable" Ohana is sick. It's ok, I understand Ohana's feelings. I get sick when I'm surrounded by fail anyways. Such is the duty of the one that carries the whole show on her own shoulders.

Perv Writer, bleh, die. If you didn't cement your place as trash, you did already. (And not in the Kaiji i can come back sense either)

Dream scenes were pretty corny. I laughed pretty hard at them, and after Ohana recollects and reaffirms her thoughts, she finally finds her true pairing:

Ohana X Kissuiso

:D.... well just look at grandma.

Minko and Nako were pretty funny in doing their encouraging speech after they saw Ohana cry, so they earn brownie points. And Minko was trying to prank her still. :heh:

I was wishing Tohru would do something, but honestly... lol.

Rating: 6/10 It was pretty meh overall, but some decent cast interaction plus reaffirming Ohana's true motivations lets me give this episode a pass. Grandma is also starting to pull her weight to help the show as she shrugs off that stupid bitch.

Lessing-love

2011-06-05, 18:18

Any suggestion that Ohana is interested in Tohru is pure projection at this point - there's just no hard evidence, and as others have already said, trying to interpret Ohana chasing him down to help the inn as romantic interest sounds like wishful thinking to me. That's not to say she won't develop an interest later, and he's certainly warm for her form (whether a 23 year-old lusting after a 16 year-old is creepy is an individual call, I think) but I just don't buy that there's been a scrap of evidence to indicate she has interest.
Yeah, I agree on the lack of hard evidence Ohana is interested in him at this point; heck, Minko is the character she comes off as having the deepest feelings for at Kissuiso, and that's just your basic average emotionally intense blossoming teenage female friendship.

Minchi has final figured it out that Tohru likes Ohana. Kind of feel sorry, but she should realize that Ohana doesn't like him.

I dunno. I think she's suspected something was up even as early as episode 4; notice when she 'saves' Ohana from Tohru's criticism, she has an...interesting look on her face? And just before the that, we're shown a shot from her perspective, looking at Tohru and Ohana. So at the very least, she was beginning to become jealous from early on.

kache

2011-06-05, 18:50

Nearly perfect. Amazing episode.

.x.crii.x.

2011-06-05, 19:12

Does anybody know if the rumor of Hanasaku spanning over the course of 10 years is true? I´ve read about in 4chan...but seeing as its , well..."4chan" I don't really believe it.

As in the story starting with Ohana 16 and ending at her being 26? Anybody know?

Zeroryoko1974

2011-06-05, 19:18

A staple trope in shoujo drama, the main character gets a fever and collapses. A decent episode

Grey

2011-06-05, 19:29

Come on. Even Grey admits the story could spin her personally chasing after Tohru twice as a sign of hidden interest.

And to both you and Grey: How often in anime is a cigar just a cigar, or a cake just a cake (especially when it comes to relationship issues)?

There's certainly nothing confirmed here, but there's enough reason for legitimate suspicion. Heh, but I would also admit the story could also spin Ohana's lack of worry about Jiromaru's creepiness as interest in him. I was just saying: stories can spin tons of earlier events in new ways. That doesn't mean the stuff is real evidence for anything at the time.

It's just a literary tactic. You spin an old event in a new way, so you can start a new development that doesn't look like it comes out of nowhere. The point here is that it would be new, because Ohana doesn't show any real interest in him yet.

And usually a cigar is just a cigar. If it's not a cigar, they show a scene early on where the cigar has an evil cape and top hat on.

Guardian Enzo

2011-06-05, 19:47

I don't see a lack of a romantic pairing at the end as any kind of a cop-out on Okada's part, RRR - I just don't think this is a romance series. This isn't True Tears. As long as she gives us a resolution where Ohana grows as a person, I don't think she owes the shippers anything. Sure, there are hints of romance here - the protagonist is a teenager and it's a two-cour series. But most of the frenzy is coming from overzealous viewers, not the writer.

If TT had ended without a pairing, I'd have felt gypped. Not so here.

ReddyRedWolf

2011-06-05, 19:51

Jonothon

2011-06-05, 20:36

Best rebuttal in a single sentence in a single episode award goes to Grey:

And usually a cigar is just a cigar. If it's not a cigar, they show a scene early on where the cigar has an evil cape and top hat on.

That was funny...

ChairmanMeow

2011-06-05, 21:28

This whole episode just seemed so surreal, especially the dream scene. There are still a lot of ways it can be interpreted, but for sure Ohana is loving her life in Kissuiso, where people accept and need her.

As for what Ko symbolized in her dream...I just can't be too sure. It could be that he is just a symbol of her old life, or that he is himself, or that he's both. Definitely there's no going back to just being friends like back in the old days for sure, and I for sure agree with Enzo saying that the resolution between those two will play a huge role later on.

And I guess it was just me, but I sort of like Jiroumaru in this episode. He did go to see Ohana, and I saw it like how fever-induced Ohana saw it: his own way of having a visit with a sick person. Or maybe that's my blind optimism that looks for the best in some characters that are normally just supposed to be the stooge.

mindovermatter

2011-06-05, 21:34

Usually I really adore these sorts of episodes, but taken in context of the entire series, it doesn't quite work as well.

For one thing, I almost feel like this was a natural lead up from episodes 1 and 2, except we were missing episodes in between that and episode 10. This Ohana is the same Ohana who we knew in episodes 1 and 2. The Ohana in episodes 3-9 is a far different, more evolved Ohana (A more boring one I must say as well).

Now it's not that I have a problem with this sort of Ohana, and if she stayed this way for the rest of the series, I'd be more than satisfied. It's just that again this show expresses a freaking IDENTITY CRISIS.

No really. This is the Ohana we came to knew in episodes 1 and 2. The same sort of paranoid, insecure Ohana that frankly is a little emotionally frustrated inside, despite the cheerful appearance on the outside. The Ohana in episodes 3-9 was more of a bullheaded girl who charged into situations no matter how silly, and was trying to be everyone's helper girl. She wasn't very emotionally complex at all. Really, while such characters are not necessarily bad, I much prefer this other Ohana. This Ohana has more depth.

The problem is trying to connect the two. The world in episodes 3-9 is usually far more zany (At times WAY TOO zany such as 3 and 7). Ohana's personality shifted to match these contrasting sides of the story, but this makes the story feel very unnatural. I mean, there was no good build up from the previous episodes that Ohana was this insecure about her worth to the Inn. It comes off as overwrought, especially considering how useful she was in the last couple episodes where as Guardian Enzo pointed out, she was truly indispensable.

I'm going to keep saying it despite people not wanting me to, but really, this show needs to stick with one style or this series will continue to be disorienting, slapping many viewers with jarring shifts in tone, direction, narrative, and characterization.

You bring up a really interesting point, and I think you're right. But being just a casual watcher of this series, I didn't even notice the dramatic shift in personalities from week to week. Either the writers did a really good job of portraying Ohana that way so that I didn't notice (or perhaps a different writer did each episode?) but I think that these are all different sides of Ohanas personality, and the reason so far the series has been episodic is because we are supposed to begin to see Ohana as all of these things. I think Ohanas personality is such that she is strong willed and spontaneous, but when she has the "luxury" of thinking about it she is still young, away from home, and insecure (it's not like Madam Manager and Minko haven't bullied her, not to mention Jiros sex novel about her, which would probably make any other girl very very uncomfortable to work with him).
And the essential plot question that this episode covered was necessary, and something that people may have been asking anyway: How important to the inn is Ohana really, and what would happen if she left the inn.
Remember, in the first episode Madam Manager said she was unwillingly taking in the child of her excommunicated daughter. In this episode, we see that Ohana has persevered in becoming an integral part of the inn, as well as seeing a somewhat grandmotherly side of Madam Manager.

On a different side note, her insistence on getting up when she was obviously sick was kind of annoying. Having been in that sort of situation, and taken care of people in similar circumstances, I know that it's really more annoying when you have to watch someone who shouldn't be working to make sure they actually don't work. When it's time to rest, it's time to rest. Don't force other people to look after you longer when you could get better in a few days in you followed doctors orders.
But in general, I love Ohana. She is my model character of someone who always thinks positive, never complains, works hard, and cares.

Triple_R

2011-06-05, 22:37

Heh, but I would also admit the story could also spin Ohana's lack of worry about Jiromaru's creepiness as interest in him.

Another part of this episode that I liked, was how Ohana did come across as a bit perturbed and baffled by Jiromaru. That was lacking to an eyebrow-raising degree in Episode 3.

I was just saying: stories can spin tons of earlier events in new ways. That doesn't mean the stuff is real evidence for anything at the time.

It's just a literary tactic. You spin an old event in a new way, so you can start a new development that doesn't look like it comes out of nowhere. The point here is that it would be new, because Ohana doesn't show any real interest in him yet.

I think it's too early to declare that she has a "total lack of interest" in him, though.

My point is that Okada has given more than enough suggestive hints here that it should not take anybody by surprise if she decides to go down an Ohana/Tohru route.

And usually a cigar is just a cigar. If it's not a cigar, they show a scene early on where the cigar has an evil cape and top hat on.

Truth be told, I used to be more of your perspective: Wondering how some people could read so much into such small hints. But then, far more often than not, those people would end up being right about those subtle romance hints leading to something more concrete down the line. If there's a scene in anime that can in any way, shape, or form be construed as having some romantic underpinnings to it, that's more often than not the route the anime will take.

Simply put, it's rare when you have a lot of coincidental smoke, and no fire whatsoever. That's my experience with anime, anyway.

I don't see a lack of a romantic pairing at the end as any kind of a cop-out on Okada's part, RRR - I just don't think this is a romance series.

Well, this is where you and I disagree somewhat. Even if this isn't primarily a romance series, romance is starting to seem like a very prominent subcategory for this anime. That's how it seems to me, anyway.

This is three episodes in a row now in which Hanasaku Iroha has very clearly played around with romantic hints, suggestions, and conflicts.

I question having all those hints unless there's a plan to have them actually go somewhere eventually.

This isn't True Tears.

I see significant similarities between this and True Tears.

As long as she gives us a resolution where Ohana grows as a person, I don't think she owes the shippers anything.

I simply disagree. I think it would be a horrible dodge on Okada's part to avoid the question of Ko's romantic confession entirely. At some point, Ohana should respond concretely to that, in my view.

Sure, there are hints of romance here - the protagonist is a teenager and it's a two-cour series.

That alone doesn't mean you have such hints of romance, and of potential romantic conflict, in three straight episodes, imo.

Again, what's telling to me, is the frequency of these hints. It's not that Ohana personally chased down Tohru once (which I myself could easily dismiss), it's that she did it twice and we're not even half-way through this anime yet. I will say that I agree with your "peaking too early" concern for much the same reason, in fact.

But most of the frenzy is coming from overzealous viewers, not the writer.

If TT had ended without a pairing, I'd have felt gypped. Not so here.

I'll feel gypped here if Ko's romantic confession isn't address, and if Tohru's obvious feelings for Ohana don't result in some serious resolution at some point.

Guardian Enzo

2011-06-05, 23:13

Triple_R

2011-06-05, 23:19

Just to clarify - what I mean explicitly is that there may be no pairing at the end of the series. If the situation with Kou were left as it is now, yes - that would be inadequate. It does need to be dealt with - just not necessarily in the form of "Kou or Tohru". It might be as simple as Ohana telling Kou she loves him but as a friend, or she loves him but she's ready to move on - but not necessarily leaving as part of a couple.

That's the difference for me. If TT had ended without Good Boy making a specific and concrete "Hiromi or Noe" choice, I would have felt gypped. Wouldn't you?

Absolutely. A bit more so than I would here, in fairness.

After discussing this episode with you on this thread, I'll admit that you could have an ending in this anime where Ohana isn't romantically with anyone, and I would still be Ok with it. That's not what I expect or want, but I could live with it. So I change my take there a bit.

But what would bother me is if things like Ko's romantic confession, and Tohru's obvious feelings for Ohana, are all swept under the rug, and never concretely addressed one way or the other.

As you say, I think that would be inadequate at this juncture.

ahelo

2011-06-05, 23:34

Episode 10 (http://traveleronrevenge.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/hanasaku-iroha-10/)

Sick Ohana episode is really good. Reminded me of that Haruhi episode where Nagato was reading a book for 5 minutes.

sayde

2011-06-06, 00:29

~Yami~

2011-06-06, 02:25

aaahhh... I wish I can see more dramatic scene in this episode....

yeah! I agree about the scene between Tohru and Ohana is one of a cute scene.... Tohru's sharp tongue is useless against silent Ohana... XD
poor Minko... T_T

I can see how Kissuiso's staff care so much about Ohana... and that's sweet.... (although Ren-san looks didn't care at all)

Since I'm OhanaXKo supporter, I can't give this episode a higher rating than 8/10.... lol....
Don't give up, Ko! Ohana will look for you in the next episode.... XD

0utf0xZer0

2011-06-06, 02:26

This was the first episode of HSI I'd describe as "relaxing", and while I've generally felt that the fast pacing and slightly chaotic happenings of the previous episodes were a strength of the show, this actually worked really well.

I definitely enjoyed the surrealism of the proceedings (then again, I'm a Shaft fanboy) and all the little character moments. My only true disappointment was that Tomoe wasn't the one to read the phone message. I just got this image of Ohana finally getting up after her sick day and Tomoe immediately asking who this "Kou" is.:heh:

(But the bit where she helps the manager drive off Jiromaru and the uncle was great... I love Tomoe.)

Regarding the complaint about Jiromaru's appearance, I can kind of see the point but on the other hand it's hard to imagine Jiromari visiting sick Ohana playing out any other way.

And most importantly... the next episode preview people. Seriously. Was that Ohana's mom who showed up in there? And is that yet another guy? Will episode 11 put the "drama" in "family drama"? (I still wonder if Ohana's father will end up playing a role in this story at some point...)

Usually I really adore these sorts of episodes, but taken in context of the entire series, it doesn't quite work as well.

For one thing, I almost feel like this was a natural lead up from episodes 1 and 2, except we were missing episodes in between that and episode 10. This Ohana is the same Ohana who we knew in episodes 1 and 2. The Ohana in episodes 3-9 is a far different, more evolved Ohana (A more boring one I must say as well).

Now it's not that I have a problem with this sort of Ohana, and if she stayed this way for the rest of the series, I'd be more than satisfied. It's just that again this show expresses a freaking IDENTITY CRISIS.

I didn't have an issue with this, probably because I interpret her like mindovermatter does... she's insecure when she stops to think, which is probably why she's so prone to throwing herself into things and trying to be useful to others.

No really. This is the Ohana we came to knew in episodes 1 and 2. The same sort of paranoid, insecure Ohana that frankly is a little emotionally frustrated inside, despite the cheerful appearance on the outside. The Ohana in episodes 3-9 was more of a bullheaded girl who charged into situations no matter how silly, and was trying to be everyone's helper girl. She wasn't very emotionally complex at all. Really, while such characters are not necessarily bad, I much prefer this other Ohana. This Ohana has more depth.

To me, the complex emotions we see in certain episodes explain her impulsive behaviour in the others. Both are needed to see the complete image of who she is.

The problem is trying to connect the two. The world in episodes 3-9 is usually far more zany (At times WAY TOO zany such as 3 and 7). Ohana's personality shifted to match these contrasting sides of the story, but this makes the story feel very unnatural. I mean, there was no good build up from the previous episodes that Ohana was this insecure about her worth to the Inn. It comes off as overwrought, especially considering how useful she was in the last couple episodes where as Guardian Enzo pointed out, she was truly indispensable.

I actually her insecurities about this, largely because it tapped into something I've been wondering: does Kissuiso really have the customer base to support such a large staff? The inn was running fine without her, the circumstances behind her "big damn hero" moment are highly unusual.

Why exactly did Ohana find it necessary to personally chase down Tohru not once, but twice? Is it really such a stretch to think that maybe this means that Ohana does have some interest in Tohru?

I think those scenes foreshadow future developments between the two. However, I don't see how they show her interest in Tohru. There's other reasons that convincingly explain her actions there, and there's almost no notable evidence that she's attracted to him period... whereas there is notable evidence for just about every other attraction in this series.

I still think Ohana is going to be absolutely shocked when she finds out Tohru likes her, and that the immediate impact may well be to convince her to start thinking more seriously about Ko.

(whether a 23 year-old lusting after a 16 year-old is creepy is an individual call, I think)

I get the impression there's some cultural relativism at work here too but I don't really have enough evidence to decide. Kimi no Todoke had a teenage girl crushing on a twenty-something guy but that's not really the same thing.

When I was 22, I was asked by the mother of two sixteen year old cosplayers if I wanted to go for dinner with her daughters (well known to me from their involvement in cosplay shoot I photographed the previous year). Despite the fact there's little evidence she was actually trying to set us up, the reactions I've gotten when telling friends range from "it would have been creepy to accept" to "You're declining because you had to meet your group at that time constitutes EPIC FAIL."

Also, when I was 23 a friend of mine mistook my then 19 year old girlfriend for a sixteen year old. And she didn't tell me until her real age came up... about nine months after I introduced the two of them. Still not sure if she didn't care or if she just didn't want to stir up any trouble.

taofd

2011-06-06, 03:01

Entire episode felt nostalgic of being sick :). I get dream hallucinations when I'm running high fevers and I can definitely empathize with what Ohana was probably feeling.

While I wouldn't take the dream sequences too literally, it does seem like there was some significance with Kou-chan (who knows maybe Hanasaku is about to turn supernatural on us, lol), although only time will tell if it can be directly interpreted as "Ohana choosing Kissuiso over Kou".

An interesting tidbit of dream analysis. It really depends on the individual, but it is possible that Kou is not intended to be a literal representation. Perhaps Ohana's subconscious fears of inadequacies manifested itself as Kou because it is something she is familiar with. Kou represents everything she left behind and which is still a relative "safe haven" for her to escape to if things fail at Kissuiso. This dream may only represent her feelings of solidarity at Kissuiso. It could be a bit of foreshadowing by the author, but it'll take more than this to convince me that Kou is definitely out of the picture. Also the interesting cameo by what appears to be a miko loli and a fox could be a reference to Inari's domain and the warding against of evil spirits or influences (Ohana's fears of inadequacy?).

On a side note: Tohru has officially become a legitimate rival to Kou!

Ohana, make a contract with me and become a magical girl!

icatero

2011-06-06, 03:02

taofd

2011-06-06, 03:16

Am I the only one who doesn't really care for the pairings this series has to offer? I'd like for the series to continue focusing on Ohana's development and more on her friendship with Minko, Nako, and Yuina, more than anything else.

I don't think the pairings the main attraction to this show, although Ohana's development is probably directly tied into her relationship with Kou-chan. So in that sense, it's still relatively important.

Kanon

2011-06-06, 04:03

Am I the only one who doesn't really care for the pairings this series has to offer? I'd like for the series to continue focusing on Ohana's development and more on her friendship with Minko, Nako, and Yuina, more than anything else.

No, I'm with you. I couldn't care less whether Ohana ends up with Ko or Tohru either, as both are good guys. I don't mind romance, but I don't want it to hijack the series the same way it has hijacked this forum (much to my dismay). This was primarily a series about growing up and I'd like it to remain that way. If this turns into a romance series, then it'll be my turn to talk about "identity crisis". I hope all this romantic drama is just a phase (a necessary one, romance is part of growing up too) it's going through.

What I really want to happen later on is for the series to focus more on the side characters (and Ohana's relationship with them) - Nako and Yuina in particular are criminally underdeveloped.

Irisiel

2011-06-06, 04:17

Am I the only one who is reminded by ARIA? With Ohana/Tooru = Akari/Akatsuki?

Especially now with the suspiciously supernatural foxes/girl in Ohana's dream (kind of like the cats in ARIA). Is it possible that they will go the light fantasy route with this series? (You know, with a few fantasy elements yet without going full on swords and sorcery.)

germanturkey

2011-06-06, 04:23

perfect episode of drama, character development, awww moments. it was nicely shown that the whole inn cared about her, even when she thought she was a replaceable person in the staff. the ep was well written in the sense you couldn't tell which parts actually happened and which parts were because of her fever. Sort of like in Aria, where Akari would interact have these experiences that seemed supernatural.

i hope the last scene wasn't symbolic of Ohana choosing the inn over Ko. that would be a pretty poorly written romance. Tooru was pretty hilarious this ep though. though i'm sad she didn't actually get to text Ko something. my heart broke when he didn't see her in 9. but seeing as we're not even half way done yet, this romance is far from dead.

Arabesque

2011-06-06, 06:00

For one thing, I almost feel like this was a natural lead up from episodes 1 and 2, except we were missing episodes in between that and episode 10. This Ohana is the same Ohana who we knew in episodes 1 and 2. The Ohana in episodes 3-9 is a far different, more evolved Ohana (A more boring one I must say as well).

Now it's not that I have a problem with this sort of Ohana, and if she stayed this way for the rest of the series, I'd be more than satisfied. It's just that again this show expresses a freaking IDENTITY CRISIS.

No really. This is the Ohana we came to knew in episodes 1 and 2. The same sort of paranoid, insecure Ohana that frankly is a little emotionally frustrated inside, despite the cheerful appearance on the outside. The Ohana in episodes 3-9 was more of a bullheaded girl who charged into situations no matter how silly, and was trying to be everyone's helper girl. She wasn't very emotionally complex at all. Really, while such characters are not necessarily bad, I much prefer this other Ohana. This Ohana has more depth.

The problem is trying to connect the two. The world in episodes 3-9 is usually far more zany (At times WAY TOO zany such as 3 and 7). Ohana's personality shifted to match these contrasting sides of the story, but this makes the story feel very unnatural. I mean, there was no good build up from the previous episodes that Ohana was this insecure about her worth to the Inn. It comes off as overwrought, especially considering how useful she was in the last couple episodes where as Guardian Enzo pointed out, she was truly indispensable.

I'm going to keep saying it despite people not wanting me to, but really, this show needs to stick with one style or this series will continue to be disorienting, slapping many viewers with jarring shifts in tone, direction, narrative, and characterization.In all honesty, I think you are wrong.

Look back to how Ohana was characterized thus far, from episode one to nine. It's not like she has suddenly changed from one personality to the other, she was always this girl who tries to do her best to help others, despite her own insecurities, and rushes into things without thinking them through.

In the very first episode, when she got to Kissuiso, how the first thing she had done was take out what she thought was weed from the garden. It was a very silly thing to do, especially when she should have logically went inside to introduce herself first, but she still done it. Or how she took Minchi's blanket and hung it outside the Inn's window, or how she asked to be punished as well when Minchi was slapped. Or even when she tried to defend her when Tooru was scolding her.

Ohana was always bullheaded, from the very start. She just didn't show it much at the beginning because she was new at Kissuiso, and had no idea how to act with this group of people she was going to be living with. The longer she stayed there, the more confidante she grew with her headstrong attitude and forcing her way and view.

This started in the second episode. Throughout it, she was frustrated that no matter what she does, she gets nothing but problems. She tries to take her frustration on trimming the grass, she is told not to be haughty. She tries to clean one of the rooms, she gets accused that she lost something. She tries to lie to protect Nako, Nako goes and continues to ignore her. At that point she says screw it and decided to face the two of them head on and make them agree to not avoid her.

So instead of Ohana shifting her personality, I see it as something that she gradually developed and became more apparent the more and more she stayed with the rest of the staff. I honestly think you are getting too hung up on the change in the tone of the story that you think that the characters themselves are changing, when they are developing all the same.

Now the point about Ohana questioning her worth to Kissuiso not having much build up, I agree. Ohana these past episodes had been always over confidante and let nothing stop her that we didn't really get a good feel for her expressing any doubts on being that essential to the Inn, but I disagree on saying it was overwrought, at least the way it was presented in this episode.

The way Ohana came to the fear that she wasn't useful was due to how everyone assured her that everyone was handling everything fine without her. Being sick, she felt that despite the hard work she put in, waking up early, and trying her best, nothing would be lost if she was gone. So she was very conflicted in what to feel, she was clearly happy that nothing wrong happened due to her illness, but at the same time she felt disappointed that she wasn't needed (we can also say that her fever made her more emotional as well, so she wasn't really thinking clearly).
I actually her insecurities about this, largely because it tapped into something I've been wondering: does Kissuiso really have the customer base to support such a large staff? The inn was running fine without her, the circumstances behind her "big damn hero" moment are highly unusual.The way I see it, this episode sort of answers this question. The Inn can run without her the same as it did back then, but there would be a loss of a morale among the staff.

I think that the biggest change Ohana had brought was make the entire staff feel more like a family more than anything, so while it's not necessarily a major change to the Inn, it's certainly a positive one.

Am I the only one who is reminded by ARIA?No I also thought this episode was very Aria like as well. That being said I don't think we are going into low fantasy with this series (or at least, we aren't going to see anything concrete about the supernatural here.)

MeoTwister5

2011-06-06, 06:09

In all honesty, I think you are wrong.

Look back to how Ohana was characterized thus far, from episode one to nine. It's not like she has suddenly changed from one personality to the other, she was always this girl who tries to do her best to help others, despite her own insecurities, and rushes into things without thinking them through.

In the very first episode, when she got to Kissuiso, how the first thing she had done was take out what she thought was weed from the garden. It was a very silly thing to do, especially when she should have logically went inside to introduce herself first, but she still done it. Or how she took Minchi's blanket and hung it outside the Inn's window, or how she asked to be punished as well when Minchi was slapped. Or even when she tried to defend her when Tooru was scolding her.

Ohana was always bullheaded, from the very start. She just didn't show it much at the beginning because she was new at Kissuiso, and had no idea how to act with this group of people she was going to be living with. The longer she stayed there, the more confidante she grew with her headstrong attitude and forcing her way and view.

This started in the second episode. Throughout it, she was frustrated that no matter what she does, she gets nothing but problems. She tries to take her frustration on trimming the grass, she is told not to be haughty. She tries to clean one of the rooms, she gets accused that she lost something. She tries to lie to protect Nako, Nako goes and continues to ignore her. At that point she says screw it and decided to face the two of them head on and make them agree to not avoid her.

So instead of Ohana shifting her personality, I see it as something that she gradually developed and became more apparent the more and more she stayed with the rest of the staff. I honestly think you are getting too hung up on the change in the tone of the story that you think that the characters themselves are changing, when they are developing all the same.

Now the point about Ohana questioning her worth to Kissuiso not having much build up, I agree. Ohana these past episodes had been always over confidante and let nothing stop her that we didn't really get a good feel for her expressing any doubts on being that essential to the Inn, but I disagree on saying it was overwrought, at least the way it was presented in this episode.

The way Ohana came to the fear that she wasn't useful was due to how everyone assured her that everyone was handling everything fine without her. Being sick, she felt that despite the hard work she put in, waking up early, and trying her best, nothing would be lost if she was gone. So she was very conflicted in what to feel, she was clearly happy that nothing wrong happened due to her illness, but at the same time she felt disappointed that she wasn't needed (we can also say that her fever made her more emotional as well, so she wasn't really thinking clearly).
The way I see it, this episode sort of answers this question. The Inn can run without her the same as it did back then, but there would be a loss of a morale among the staff.

I think that the biggest change Ohana had brought was make the entire staff feel more like a family more than anything, so while it's not necessarily a major change to the Inn, it's certainly a positive one.

No I also thought this episode was very Aria like as well. That being said I don't think we are going into low fantasy with this series (or at least, we aren't going to see anything concrete about the supernatural here.)

I agree with everything here.

Furthermore, considering my favorite parts of the episode are when everyone one was visiting her one by one and showing their concern for her in their individual ways, I think it goes so far into saying that she's actually an integral part of the Kissuiso family and not just someone who came and suddenly started working there. Really if the inn was fine without her and they never needed her, then there wouldn't have been any point actually actively helping her if the doctor said the fever would go away on itself. They were actively making her comfortable and helping her out despite having their own work and tasks to do. This shows that she is, indeed, part of this family. They need for her and care for her.

She's part of this family now.

Haak

2011-06-06, 07:22

I particularly liked Nako's talk with Ohana at the end. It was just very sweet and sentimental. And the end where Jiroumaru and Enishi get their comeupings was just hilarious. Also, I no longer care about shipping anymore. And no it has no correlation to the fact that my favourite pairing took a massive set back, whatareyoutalkingabout?

Triple_R

2011-06-06, 09:17

Prior to Episode 8, and after Episode 7, I was inclined to agree with Reckoner on the "Identity Crisis" charge.

But not at this juncture.

We now have 10 episodes to work with. Episodes 3 and 7 are the unusual ones, with the other 8 all having a certain consistent sensibility about them. One comic relief episode out of every five is not that out of the ordinary for a two cour slice of life/coming of age show, or deserving of strong criticism.

As for Ohana herself, I agree with Arabesque and 0utf0xZer0: She's a bullheaded girl that loves to help, but that doesn't mean she lacks insecurities.

0utf0xZer0 once described this show to me as a mix of K-On and True Tears (specifically, the best parts of each). With the last three episodes, that's seeming more and more to be the case to me.

Personally, I think it's a mix that Okada has managed pretty well so far.

Soconfused

2011-06-06, 11:00

Scumbag Tohru showing his true colors once again. Dude should just stay in the kitchen were he belongs.

Roger Rambo

2011-06-06, 11:21

Dude should just stay in the kitchen were he belongs.Indeed! In the kitchen, barefoot, and pregnant! I hate it when people don't know their place :frustrated:

Pocari_Sweat

2011-06-06, 11:36

Indeed! In the kitchen, barefoot, and pregnant! I hate it when people don't know their place :frustrated:

I thought you weren't against Tooru x Ohana Rambo? :heh:

Roger Rambo

2011-06-06, 11:42

I thought you weren't against Tooru x Ohana Rambo? :heh:I'm not particularly opposed to it on some kind of philosophical grounds.

Though I don't see what that has to do with me agreeing with Soconfused about Tohru's place being in the kitchen, barefoot and 8 months pregnant. :confused:

rmwYi7R2G7Q

hanashi

2011-06-06, 11:46

I'm not particularly opposed to it on some kind of philosophical grounds.

Though I don't see what that has to do with me agreeing with Soconfused about Tohru's place being in the kitchen, barefoot and 8 months pregnant. :confused:

:heh: I thought that was a nice response to a really negative comment. Well done, sir!

Reckoner

2011-06-06, 11:54

Guardian Enzo

2011-06-06, 12:12

The fundamental problem being described here, seems to me, is a general lack of continuity between episodes. The stylistic inconsistencies have been pointed out at length, but this ep highlighted the inconsistencies of the characters behavior. When folks complain of "no character development" this is what I think is really meant.

The gist of it is, the characters' state of mind and behavior is whatever it needs to be to make the events of the episode make sense. That's what I referred to when I spoke of manipulation for dramatic expediency, and I agree it's a legit issue. Some individual eps are very good, but in order for this to be an elite series in my view it would need to do a much better job making them flow into each other believably and logically. Right now it feels to me like there's no real plan - we've just had ten scripts with the same characters and setting, ten one-act plays if you like. It doesn't feel like a cohesive narrative, as you have with some Okada works like TT and AnoHana.

Reckoner

2011-06-06, 12:13

Pocari_Sweat

2011-06-06, 12:15

Thanks for cohesively describing what I been trying to get at. I'm a failure of a writer. :heh:

More fail than Jiro? :heh:

Guardian Enzo

2011-06-06, 12:29

Thanks for cohesively describing what I been trying to get at. I'm a failure of a writer. :heh:

I know you're kidding, but just in case, let me make clear - what I was trying to do was to summarize all of the concerns raised lately along this vein - not just yours, but mine, and several other posters as well. I understood exactly what you were saying and I thought it was presented coherently and precisely. :)

mizou

2011-06-06, 15:44

Am I the only one to find this episode very bad ?!
well, the scene with Tohru was the only action scene, the rest was boring and I didn't get the stuff about Ohana's dream with ko, especially because they end the episode with it.
this the seconde worse episode after episode 3!!

spawnofthejudge

2011-06-07, 08:00

Okay, in the dream sequence with the Ko vs Kissuiso decision, why the focus on the little girl and the fox? I mean, WTH?

Are we going to bring spirits and fantasy 10 episodes in? :frustrated:

I agree with Kanon et. al. regarding what I want: More friendship!

Spat

2011-06-07, 10:00

I'm curious to see where this series is going with another 16 episodes ahead. ;)

Flower

2011-06-07, 14:23

I thoroughly enjoyed this chapter and gave it 8/10....

For me I enjoyed the dream sequence with Kou and the fox spirit - didn't bother me in the least, and I actually felt sad when Kou turned and walked away when Ohana said she loved the people at the Inn. For me it "worked". I would not mind a little of the "supernatural" element mixing in, and actually already felt there was a little present in previous ep's with the crane....

Also laughed quite a bit when the two men working at the Inn came to visit Ohana and the landlady and the head waitress chased them away. :D

Roger Rambo

2011-06-07, 15:28

Flower

2011-06-07, 15:31

spawnofthejudge

2011-06-07, 15:33

With regards to the fox and the little girl spirits. I think people are forgetting that episode where they thought that Tohru had gone to the rival inn, and we had this brief explanation of this festival where they light paths for the spirits to find their way home. It had a rather profound effect on Ohana.Then why are they hiding?

My deal, primarily, is that it feels out of place. The scene is about a representative for Ko, and Ohana's choice. That it happened in that setting is representative to how much Ohana was affected by the story. If that was supposed to be the spirits being guided along their way, why would they be hiding just off the beaten path from a mortal and her representative choice?

Also, if it's Ohana's dream, why didn't she acknowledge the presence of two beings that were highlighted to the audience?

It's... frustratingly weird.

Flower

2011-06-07, 15:38

Then why are they hiding?

My deal, primarily, is that it feels out of place. The scene is about a representative for Ko, and Ohana's choice. That it happened in that setting is representative to how much Ohana was affected by the story. If that was supposed to be the spirits being guided along their way, why would they be hiding just off the beaten path from a mortal and her representative choice?

Also, if it's Ohana's dream, why didn't she acknowledge the presence of two beings that were highlighted to the audience?

It's... frustratingly weird.

Hmm ... I guess I would ask why they need to show themselves to Ohana? And why would it necessarily need to be shown that Ohana saw them? But that is perhaps not "fair" to ask it like that.

For me what it boils down to is that I do not mind a supernatural element being present in the story (if it will in fact be brought in). For me I feel that I can thoroughly enjoy the interpersonal relationships growing in between the main characters and the like with such an element present.

That being said, I could see why it might bug other people though.

Roger Rambo

2011-06-07, 16:09

That's true.

Yet another hint that a "supernatural element" may play a part in the story as it goes on, perhaps?It's not supernatural. Ohana's dreaming with a fever :p

Flower

2011-06-07, 16:24

It's not supernatural. Ohana's dreaming with a fever :p

:heh:

Well, in my opinion whether or no she is sick has little to do with whether or no the supernatural can objectively "bust in" to one's dreams. Some might even say being in an "unnatural state" can sometimes pre-dispose one to be able to receive such contact (although one's choice of who and/or what contacts one and what they might be able to do to someone in that unnatural state is another issue).

Being in an unnatural state as a result of illness or some kind of substance may lend one's mind to over-active imagination, delusions and the rest, to be sure. But that does not de-facto rule out the possibility of supernatural, "otherworldly" elements from objectively being able to contact one in a dream.

Whether or no you believe in such things to begin with is another issue entirely.

And whether or no such elements have a place in this story in particular is a matter of preference, I think. For me such elements are fine and (as of now) do not "infringe" upon the story in a negative way.

As some have argued up to now it is kinda hard to find a common thread throughout the first 10 eps to begin with!

Triple_R

2011-06-07, 16:58

That's true.

Yet another hint that a "supernatural element" may play a part in the story as it goes on, perhaps?

I honestly hope not.

I'd like to see Hanasaku stay very grounded in tangible reality.

I like Anohana, but I frankly can't relate much to it, due precisely to the nature of a certain core character in it.

So I'd like for Hanasaku, at least, to remain something that feels somewhat plausible and "real" to me.

Undertaker

2011-06-07, 19:04

agrees, HanaIro doesn't seem like a supernatural anime.

At most there might be some divine coincidences or the staple July ghost/spirit encounters in East Asian Culture.

Anything specific would be too much

Jonothon

2011-06-08, 00:25

Even if you take the kou/fox goddess as a fever induced dream and nothing supernatural, I think it was important because it allowed Ohana a chance to be clear about how she feels about her new life as opposed to her old one. Kou represented the only wonderful about her old life and his being in the vision/dream is only because he's important to her still. I don't see this as a rejection of kou as a person.

I had to LOL at Toohru and his reaction to Ohana during the meal scene, especially when she brought the strawberry to her mouth. My first thought was, "strawberry time...".

Arabesque

2011-06-08, 08:13

@Arabesque & 0utf0xzer0

I'm not going to deny that Ohana has always been bullheaded, but I still find it to be a bit strange that these feelings of hers in episode 10 were lingering this whole time without a proper build up or lead up.

I just sort of feel like I've been given puzzle pieces that are both put together wrongly, or out of order.

I mean Ohana starts out emotionally frustrated, and then that emotional frustration literally disappears for a good amount of episodes only to resurface now after you would think that the growth as a character, and acceptance she's received over the past episodes would put her worries to rest.

This is how I see it...

Episodes 1 and 2. Ohana is the "bullheaded" girl trying to gain acceptance and put her insecurities to rest. She's emotionalyl frustrated because she's not succeeding.

Episode 3. Really silly episode. She takes her bullheadedness and uses it to be -friendly with our fail writer. Ok, she connects with Nako at least and a tiny bit with Minko. She's made progress.

Episodes 4-7. More of the same really, just becoming more comfortable at the Inn.

Episodes 8-9. This is where we see all the growth in Ohana's character. She puts her new knowledge to work, although rather clumsily. She's shown to be strong.

Episode 10. She gets sick and has an emotional breakdown about her worth at the Inn. Wait wut?

I'm guessing what I should say is that episode 10 makes no sense in context of episodes 8 and 9.One point though about this summary. Episode 5 had her try and help the staff with Tooru's apparent departure by going and confronting him about it, in a similar manner to what she had done in episode 8 (running off without thinking in her work uniform) and episode 6 where she wore those uniforms to help the customers have a better time, so it wasn't just her growing more comfortable but also trying and help as well. So as far as I can see, her behavior had always been constant, the helper who is willing to jump into things on the first chance.

Now, I can certainly understand what is your criticism and where your coming from. We had Ohana episode after episode where she's always on the upswing, always running off saving everybody without any hint that she was feeling unsure about whether or not she was really making a difference.

However, the way I see it, and you are free to disagree with me on this, is that this episode was the cool down episode, where Ohana, after living on nothing but adrenaline, running from place to place, doing everything she can well and beyond her limits, accumulating all that fatigue without resting sufficiently, finally shuts down. She overworks herself to the point where she becomes ill, and while on bed, she has nothing to do but sit there by herself, only meeting the staff while they are checking on her and telling her that she should rest because they don't need her.

Now what they mean is that they have everything under control, they had done this without her before But being sick, she takes it as that all the hard work she done these past ten episodes has been for naught. There wouldn't be a difference if she were to go (which where the dream comes to play in IMO) and at the end of the episode she gets emotional from all of these feelings of happiness that that her sickness didn't cause any problems, but at the same time how she feels frustrated that she's not needed.

As for why we didn't see her struggle with these feelings before hand, I think it has to do with her personality and mindset. Ohana is the sort of girl who doesn't really dwell on these negative ideas. She rather acts rather than think, and since she was unable to do anything constructive this episode as opposed to the past 9, she had nothing to do but crumple to these negative thoughts.
The fundamental problem being described here, seems to me, is a general lack of continuity between episodes. The stylistic inconsistencies have been pointed out at length, but this ep highlighted the inconsistencies of the characters behavior. When folks complain of "no character development" this is what I think is really meant.Thats a narrative problem though, or a problem with the erratic tone the series is taking, not with the characters. As far as I see, there hasn't been an unusual shift in the behavior of the characters beside them changing gradually thanks to Ohana.
The gist of it is, the characters' state of mind and behavior is whatever it needs to be to make the events of the episode make sense. That's what I referred to when I spoke of manipulation for dramatic expediency, and I agree it's a legit issue. Some individual eps are very good, but in order for this to be an elite series in my view it would need to do a much better job making them flow into each other believably and logically.I don't believe that's a requirement for an episodic series, but fair enough. I personally have a different view on what makes an elite series but I can accept this point.
Right now it feels to me like there's no real plan - we've just had ten scripts with the same characters and setting, ten one-act plays if you like. It doesn't feel like a cohesive narrative, as you have with some Okada works like TT and AnoHana.So are you saying episode 1 +2 don't feel like they are following the same tone? 4+5? 8+9? Are each of them following a different script without any sort of strong connection?

And I'm not sure what would constitute a real plan. I mean we had plot points such as Ko coming to visit Ohana showing up well before he came, Ohana dealing with the confession, Minchi's growing acceptance of Ohana, Nako becoming more open to her etc. Do these not make it feel like it's following a plan?

As for TT and Anohana, I would point out that, much any work written by Okada, they share their own problems. It's the fee of entrance into a show she had her hand in I think. You have to accept the good with the bad, though in the case of both Anohana and Hanasaku, imo, there isn't much bad here to overshadow the good.

DragoZERO

2011-06-08, 09:51

Supernatural!? That sure is out of no where, kind of.

I think this would have to be the worst episode for me so far. And I am surprised Minko is being so nice here. It's obvious that Ohana is stealing her crush away. The drama from that should be fun.

Deconstructor

2011-06-08, 19:32

Well, Ohana finally did herself in. And Ohana's not even a quarter the age of her grandmother... she should take better care of her own health. Pushing a human body to it's stamina limits is admirable, but unadvised when your job is cleaning the front desk and entrance. Recklessly chasing after a bat with a broom is a surefire way to get tired, and quickly. There's no need to get overly determined over simple housework.

I actually admire the fighting spirit of Ohana. Kissuiso really needs Ohana's enthusiasm to operate - just as Minko and Nako say (although they may have been saying so to make Ohana feel better). So, they also need her to learn self-restraint. Know one's own limitations, and work within them. Ohana can still get up early in the morning, but maybe not so early.

The moral of the story is good - throw in feverish, dream-like elements, and the entire episode becomes a surreal experience. Seriously, I almost thought they replaced Mari Okada with Franz Kafka. Ohana eating Tohru's food could have been a meaningful, dramatic event... if the camera weren't so zoomed into Ohana's wet lips and Tohru's red face. Jiroumaru's masterfully crafted story about Madam Manager - reminded me of episode 3, and this is not a good thing. Finally, Ohana encountering Ko at a Bonbouri Festival was simply unnecessary.

Some works of fiction have incorporated both realistic and unrealistic elements together to make something wonderful... but they all do so from the start. Changing the style this late in the game inevitably messes up the content. Hanasaku Iroha's selling point is real-life drama.

Despite being harsh with my comments, I'm a generous rater. I just never give out 10s.

Episode 10 Rating: 8/10