Noir

[TPWombat]

Just got the third volume, UK release, and there was a pair of red-tinted goggles inside.
Took a while to figure out that these were to view a secret message printed in a grainy red box on the insert for each volume - How cool is that!!!!!!
My problem is that I cannot read the second one - printing error? I don't know, the others are pretty hard to read anyway, requiring a strong light source.

:help: Could some kind person please tell me what the second mesage says?

The ones that I have are :

Vol 1 :
Humble snack
Tell-tale sound
Movement sinister
Repeat, return
Message found
Also a little drawing of Kirika's head.
Vol 3 :

She travels in radiant beauty
From east to west
Each night her path the same
Again and again

BTW, thoroughly enjoying the series.
BTW BTW hadn't bought anime for years, am now out GBP200 or so as a direct result of downloading fansubs and am considering buying a region 1 player so I can watch imports (I managed to buy what must be about the only non hackable player on the UK market GRRRR!). Thanks, fan-subbing community :)

[TPWombat]

Ahem, sorry, don't bother, found it.
After I posted I tried googling on "humble snack tell tale noir" and found it straight off.
Still, new levels of coolness - these are codes to activate easter eggs on the DVDs! Each phrase refers to a point in an episode and instructions on what to do with the remote.
Going to try them out now.
Let me know if anyone wants me to post the results.

[StarCreator]

The Digital Omake section of AnimeOnDVD.com should have most, if not all, of the hidden omake listed.

[TPWombat]

The Digital Omake section of AnimeOnDVD.com should have most, if not all, of the hidden omake listed.
Ah, great link, thank you.

[TheShadow]

I decided to go for the R1 edition of Noir: Shades of Darkness - Special Edition from http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=45180 as I was getting too impatient for Play.com to restock the R2 edition. The fact that I could get the special edition for almost the same price helped a bit aswell :)

But then to my horror I noticed that according to the product details it comes without english subtitles? All the other volumes comes with english subtitles according to DVDPacific, as well as all of the R2 edition according to Play. Is the first volume of Noir R1 edition delivered only with japaneese and english language and no subtitles? :sad: :uhoh:

[Kobugodo]

I have the R1 special Edition.... and it has English and Japanese Dolby 5.1 and English Subtitle option in there too even tho it doesn't list it on the package it's in there don't worry.

FYI... the T-Shirt rocks! it's one of my fav T-Shirts.

[TheShadow]

I have the R1 special Edition.... and it has English and Japanese Dolby 5.1 and English Subtitle option in there too even tho it doesn't list it on the package it's in there don't worry.

FYI... the T-Shirt rocks! it's one of my fav T-Shirts.
Thanks, I was getting a bit worried there :)

[e2-]

What did you think about this anime i kind of liked it the action fuc*ing rule :D

[TronDD]

I just finished watching it for maybe the 4th time.

It's one of my favorites. I can watch the whole thing in one sitting. The music is great, the action is great, and it has a great story. It's not just mindless action.

I love how they show the action (or don't show it). No blood, for example. It actually makes it more thrilling to watch.

Like when a guy gets a knife to the face. You don't see the knife hit him nor do they show it sticking into his skull afterwords. You just see him fall down and you see his sunglasses, split into two, falling to the ground. :) That's cool.

Only thing that bugs me about the show is :
Does Cloe shoot Kirika in the head? The show never really shows blood anyway so you can't tell. I don't care how good you are, you can't take a bullet to the head and come out without a scratch. That part bugs me.

[NoSanninWa]

Only thing that bugs me about the show is :
Does Cloe shoot Kirika in the head? The show never really shows blood anyway so you can't tell. I don't care how good you are, you can't take a bullet to the head and come out without a scratch. That part bugs me.
No. She didn't. I think that you are referring to the episode where
Mirelle is told that the one who killed her mother and father was Kirika. Just before that, Chloe fires her gun at Kirika's head at point blank.
Chloe missed on purpose.

[TronDD]

No. She didn't. I think that you are referring to the episode where
Mirelle is told that the one who killed her mother and father was Kirika. Just before that, Chloe fires her gun at Kirika's head at point blank.
Chloe missed on purpose.

I figured it was a miss. You just can't really tell since they never show people shot up. What was the purpose then? It obviously triggered the return of her memory but why would it?

[sperry]

I really liked Noir, except for one thing: The story moved horribly slow. It was almost unbearable. And, the horrible bootleg subs I watched didn't help. ^^;; I think, had it been a 12 or 13 episode series, it would have been perfect.

[Yamano667]

Noir is just perfect anime :D

[Za Paper]

I had an argument with a friend about the ending. He thinks both Mireille and Kirika were both killed at the end. I didnt think so.

[dreamless]

I actually love some of the side stories better than the main plot...

I also think Mireille and Kirika are both killed at the very end... that just fits better with the "Noir" title :D

[NoSanninWa]

I had an argument with a friend about the ending. He thinks both Mireille and Kirika were both killed at the end. I didnt think so.
Okay. You have me stumped. How were they killed?

Are you suggesting that they died in the firepit and when they walked away at the end, it was just them imagining what could have happened in the instant before they died?

If that's what you're suggesting I think that you're making stuff up. I have trouble imagining that anyone thinks they were dead.

[dreamless]

Okay. You have me stumped. How were they killed?

Are you suggesting that they died in the firepit and when they walked away at the end, it was just them imagining what could have happened in the instant before they died?

If that's what you're suggesting I think that you're making stuff up. I have trouble imagining that anyone thinks they were dead.There were two gunshots at the very end of the ending, after they walked towards the door and the camera changed to the watch. It's natural to think that those two gunshots should be from some guy outside set up by Soldats killing the two wounded girls. I'd say it's quite unimaginable that those old guys in Soldats would just leave the two top assassin girls alone and let them wander freely outside of their control.

[Gold_Rogers]

There were two gunshots at the very end of the ending, after they walked towards the door and the camera changed to the watch. It's natural to think that those two gunshots should be from some guy outside set up by Soldats killing the two wounded girls. I'd say it's quite unimaginable that those old guys in Soldats would just leave the two top assassin girls alone and let them wander freely outside of their control.

I definitely agree that the two shots heard at the very end were pretty much lead being fed into Kirika and Mireille's supple young bod...er...wait...ok getting a little out of hand, but you know what I'm saying. Another friend of mine agrees with me with his head but not with his heart. Then again, this friend of mine only watches action anime and does not like anything without a straightforward cause-effect plot...so I don't trust his judgement anyway. ;)

[TronDD]

There were two gunshots at the very end of the ending, after they walked towards the door and the camera changed to the watch. It's natural to think that those two gunshots should be from some guy outside set up by Soldats killing the two wounded girls. I'd say it's quite unimaginable that those old guys in Soldats would just leave the two top assassin girls alone and let them wander freely outside of their control.

Those shots sounded like Mirielle and Hirika's guns. I think it was in there to illistrate that, as the Soldat elder said, "Things aren't over yet." Like you say, they aren't just gonna let them go. However, that same Soldat wished Mirielle luck before she ventured to the manor. I don't think he'd shoot them in the back. They aren't dead...yet, anyway.

[Za Paper]

Okay. You have me stumped. How were they killed?

Are you suggesting that they died in the firepit and when they walked away at the end, it was just them imagining what could have happened in the instant before they died?

If that's what you're suggesting I think that you're making stuff up. I have trouble imagining that anyone thinks they were dead.

The other replies are similar to what my friend thought with the two gunshots at the end. My reasoning that they werent killed was that the two shots at the end were just for effect because guns were a common theme throughout the show. The mafia guys at the end also didnt like Artena because she was manipulating them so I think they let Kirika and Mirelle escape.

[rEkKaShInObI]

I plan on collecting noir, I hope its really good.

[dreamless]

The other replies are similar to what my friend thought with the two gunshots at the end. My reasoning that they werent killed was that the two shots at the end were just for effect because guns were a common theme throughout the show. The mafia guys at the end also didnt like Artena because she was manipulating them so I think they let Kirika and Mirelle escape.
Hmm... Soldats is not really the Mafia type... it's mentioned in the anime that Soldats is in control of the governments of a lot (if not all) of the powerful countries in the world. I'd say they are more like shadow society/secret world government sort of things ie. Illuminati. All the more reasons that they won't ever let the girls go unchecked, they are the power hungry sly politician type, they won't ever knowingly let two top assassins who has enough skills to kill them anytime go freely out of their grasp. Also Altena is not really manipulating them, it's more like power struggle where Altena believes in the old way while the other Soldats members just want to grab as much power for themselves as possible and don't care about the original purpose of the organization.


Those shots sounded like Mirielle and Hirika's guns. I think it was in there to illistrate that, as the Soldat elder said, "Things aren't over yet." Like you say, they aren't just gonna let them go. However, that same Soldat wished Mirielle luck before she ventured to the manor. I don't think he'd shoot them in the back. They aren't dead...yet, anyway.
Yea, that's one of the common argument I've seen a lot too, but I just don't think they'd just go out of door and shoot two shots randomly for the sake of symbolizing the end of the series... hmm... also the Soldats guys are old scheming politicians, and I'd say they wouldn't hesitate to backstab anyone who presents a threat to them. I'd even go as far as to say those Soldats acted before the girls to further ensure they have put their guards down. They are the ones sitting in the shadows manipulating the governments of powerful countries from behind the scene, let's say, imagine the Cigarette-Smoking Man and the Well-Manicured Man from the X-Files, and even eviler and slier ;)

[Banisher]

About the last episode issue...


For me, the two shots are meant to kill the Noir side of Mireille and Kirika. Now that they are freed from their past, they can just go on with their life. Of course, they will probably meet Soldats again later. The Soldats leader who sent Mireille to the Manor would not kill her like this, as he has high hopes of having her joining Soldats.

[TronDD]

If the power hungry Soldats were so evil and scheming, why didn't they just use their power to drop a bomb on Altena at the manor and be done? They have a sense of tradition and respect. I don't think they'd shoot the girls as they hobbled away.

I like they idea that it symbolizes the death of their trouble pasts. Kirika learns who she was and grows into a new person. Mirielle learn the truth of her past and also grows beyond it.

[dreamless]

well, indeed they are still bound by a sense of tradition, to an extent at least, as the sense of tradition doesn't stop them from hiring Mirielle to kill Altena. Actually I guess rather than a "sense of tradition", it's more like the "formality of tradition". They may wanted to bomb that holy place where Altena dwells, but whoever ordered it would look really bad since that's the, well, "holy place" for Soldats...

Also since in the end the girls deny being Noir, there's nothing, whether sense of tradition or formality of tradition, that can stop them from tricking the girls and killing them...

I guess how you wish to interpret the gunshots at the ending depends on whether you are willing to take the romantic "leap of faith"... I guess I'm just not that romantic and I always think an ending with both girls killed fits the theme "Noir" better ;)

[TronDD]

I guess it's a "half full, half empty" kinda thing. And I suppose anyone who has made up their mind isn't going to be persuaded. I know I won't be. :)

[dreamless]

yea, I guess we can never reach a conclusion unless the producers themselves give an official answer... which they won't...

or a sequel comes... although that'd prove me wrong, I'd still love to see a Noir 2 :)

[Za Paper]

yea, I guess we can never reach a conclusion unless the producers themselves give an official answer... which they won't...

or a sequel comes... although that'd prove me wrong, I'd still love to see a Noir 2 :)

There were rumors of ADV being in negotiations for the production of Noir 2. I dont think anything has come of it though.

[baka]

the action was very good but the way they ended up was very much a let down i mean why go through all that if they were going to retire or give it up and my personal favorite was chloe she did have kirika and mireelrerel or whatever taken at the same time twice until she didn't want to kill kirika very much a let down but the action was very good.

[GustaveCD]

I've seen Noir quite a few times, but something bothers me not just in Noir. The gun sound they use often (usually Mirielle's P99) and also used in a later episode of Full Metal Alchemist (during the episode with the giant red machine, the guy in the ship had a beretta and it had the same sound as the p99 in Noir).
Out of curiousity, does anyone here happen to know what the sound is really from. I'm not sure which gun in real life the sound comes from.
If you know I'd really appreciate it ^^

[Mr_Paper]

if you can you provide specific episode numbers and rough times, I'll look into it.

[Vulkar]

:topicoff:

What an interesting coincidence. Thankyou. I've been watching Noir and I have no weapons knowledge whatsoever, but I was curious what weapon Mirielle was using. Now, I know. :)

[GustaveCD]

I believe the Noir gun sounds are in episode 25 when they fight in the ruins. The gun sound is common throughout the whole series but the fight lasts awhile so its easier to find.
I also said "full metal alchemist" which is my mistake >_<, meant "full metal PANIC".

I'm really interested in finding out what sound was used for Mirielle's Walther P99. I think the same sound was used for the Beretta 1934 in noir, just altered in a program possibly.

I have used a good amount of guns, but very limited handguns and it doesnt sound familiar to me. Really interested in finding what it is, and trying the gun =P

[Kiro]

ok, i just saw more than half of that series (up to episode 16). i'm pretty amazed, that you all actually think the action is good. no freakin way. it's terrible imho. i don't mind the absence of blood. what really gives me headaches is the idiocy of the action.

not only are the bad guys bad at shooting, but they rareley even shoot! allthough one would think, that if someone works for soldats/triads/mafia/whatever, he should have some skills.

best example - episode 16: an army of bad guys are targeting noir (the girl that doesn't know about her past) with their guns. normally, if she would move, she would be dead. one must ask himself why they didn't just shoot her in the first place (since the other part of the noir-team was in their hands. they could have killed them both right on the spot) but no, they had to wait until noir makes a move....

"suddenly" (who would have thought that!) noir draws her two pistols. she is killing like half of the chinese mafia and NOT EVEN ONE shot comes out of the guns from the bad guys for like 20 seconds (i counted it!) and they get slaughtered while being oh so surprised that their enemy, actually shoots them. after those 20 seconds FINALLY they manage to shoot back. but hitting the target is anoter issue...

now it's not that i can't live without action. it's just that in noir, a big part of the episodes are those shootings. and the action is just ugly.

and the story: *sigh* after 16 episodes they still don't know shit. allthough i still liked some eps, where there was no progression of the main story arc. i will watch the show to the end just to know how it ends. there isn't much more than that that's keeping me from stopping to watch this. (actually, i allready have to force myself) i'll definatly won't recommend this show. it's mediorce at best imo.

there's much better stuff out there, that one should consider to buy the dvd's of.

[TronDD]

While I'll agree that it's dumb the bad guys can't hit anything, it's still my favorite action series. Actually, it's the only show I like the action from. I am not an action fan without some substance behind it, and even then I'll like the series for that substance. I think Noir has a good story and good action. It's the only show I'll say that about.

[dreamless]

well I totally agree that the main plot of Noir moves really really slowly... that's why I think Madlax is quite a refreshing change of pace for a Bee Train anime but that's another different matter... but for Noir I really love some of the side stories. the main plot is a bit lame IMO, except for Altena... and Chloe before episode 24... though I love her greek costume... there are some brilliant side stories, I love the nice touches and the awesome gunfight in Assassin's Game, I love the little details in A Stray Cat, I love the ending of Sound of Waves, and I love how Kirika interested in drawing in Season of Hell (which is also the name of the song at the ending of Avenger), I like Mireille best in A Bonquet For Mireille, and Chloe is best in Assassin training. ;)

[Silver_Scorcher]

Hmm? No one started a thread about Noir yet? Anyways, while it has a lot of flaws, overall I really liked Noir, and to date it's one of my favourite titles. As a lot of people said, the fight scenes were very well done but unrealistic. Why does it just so happen that every male character has a lousy shot? And some of these guys (ie. The Soldats "Best Knights") are supposedly trained to be the best of assassins. There really is no story until 2/3rds of the way through. Before that the anime is quite episodic (meaning none of the episodes tie in with the others). For me, the music is where it's at. Noir IMO has one of the best soundtracks in an anime to date. I have both OST's and I love just about every track. The DUB is also very good, but then again, you'd have to be completely brain-dead to f**k up a DUB like this. Kirika Mirielle & Chloe are some of the most emotionless and cold-blooded characters that I've seen, hence the Voice Actors don't have to worry too much about emotion. It doesn't matter anyways cuz ADV's IS&M did the DUB so you know it'll be good regardless. My advice in general would be to see it for yourself and draw up your own conclusions. Honestly I think it's very easy to hate Noir but that all depends on your tastes and tollerance.

[lavarock]

Yes, indeed it's one of my favorite series, it's also one of the series that introduced me back to anime after stop watching it after middle school (of coz for the more serious type now)

[USCPharmacist]

ok, i just saw more than half of that series (up to episode 16). i'm pretty amazed, that you all actually think the action is good. no freakin way. it's terrible imho. i don't mind the absence of blood. what really gives me headaches is the idiocy of the action.

not only are the bad guys bad at shooting, but they rareley even shoot! allthough one would think, that if someone works for soldats/triads/mafia/whatever, he should have some skills.

best example - episode 16: an army of bad guys are targeting noir (the girl that doesn't know about her past) with their guns. normally, if she would move, she would be dead. one must ask himself why they didn't just shoot her in the first place (since the other part of the noir-team was in their hands. they could have killed them both right on the spot) but no, they had to wait until noir makes a move....

"suddenly" (who would have thought that!) noir draws her two pistols. she is killing like half of the chinese mafia and NOT EVEN ONE shot comes out of the guns from the bad guys for like 20 seconds (i counted it!) and they get slaughtered while being oh so surprised that their enemy, actually shoots them. after those 20 seconds FINALLY they manage to shoot back. but hitting the target is anoter issue...

now it's not that i can't live without action. it's just that in noir, a big part of the episodes are those shootings. and the action is just ugly.

and the story: *sigh* after 16 episodes they still don't know shit. allthough i still liked some eps, where there was no progression of the main story arc. i will watch the show to the end just to know how it ends. there isn't much more than that that's keeping me from stopping to watch this. (actually, i allready have to force myself) i'll definatly won't recommend this show. it's mediorce at best imo.

there's much better stuff out there, that one should consider to buy the dvd's of.


Obviously you have not played dynasty worrior 3 muhahahahahahah

[Innotech]

Another controversial anime that made it to my top 10

I love Noir, I own the 7 discs and I dont regret it at all. Yes its slow to get going, theres no blood, and its over stylized, but to be honest, no anime is perfect and thats part of their charm. It is, after all, a fantasy regardless of realistic scenes or characters, and at the end of it all, its for entertainment. As for the ending, my theory is close to some others in that I think Mireille and Kirika are killed at the end once they walk away from the house of Altena. This is the most logical idea, because if the two were shooting at the soldats, it likely wouldnt just be two shots as I think I remember quite more than one remaining memeber standing there. I bleieve they were shot when their guard was down, especially since they were both limping and supporting each other. They were probably just tired of living the assassins life and having finished off Altena, had nothing left to really live for so they died together

[Ambience Blue]

As Noir is one of my favorite anime titles ever, I have to comment.

I admit that the plot moved slowly, but that was part of the charm of the show. For example, at first, the endless flashbacks annoyed me to no end, but as the series progressed, they became an extremely powerful running motif. The mysterious atmosphere kept building up, and I loved it. I also liked the fact that the first episodes were detached and episodic. Each ep. was a new story in a new place, that revealed the truth little by little. It was really a treat when everything came together near the ending. Also, unlike many other animes, the ending didn't seem rushed or sudden (which detracts from a series' strength).

Also, interestingly, while watching it, I didn't get the impression that I was watching an anime. There was no unrealistic explosions or magical powers, no distortions of any of the cahracters, and few radical plot twists. Unlike other action-genre series, I didn't have to wonder whether characters were really humans or just giant exploding sacks of blood. Best of all the music was incredible (no saccarine J-pop!!). I went out and got the two OSTs right away and they played nonstop on my playlists for a week.

I will concede, however, that I was a little let down by the action in the later episodes. Though at first, I could understand how the fighters were a little unsteady, their skill level never improved. The Soldats' best knights, the nuns, and the common everday lousy grunts all had the same shooting ability. Oh well...

As for the ending:
I guess I want to believe that the two will continue to live on and believe that the ending is an optimistic one, but it does make sense that they were shot. I think, as someone said earlier, that it symbolizes the end of Noir, as the watch is broken, but does it necessarily mean that the two are dead? It's quite possible for them to continue living though Noir is dead.

All in all, it's a masterpiece, and I would recommend it to anyone in a heartbeat.

[eternal]

the love story....i duno can anyone tell me?

i wanted know since i love MADLAX

is the love story between a guy and a girl? And in what situation? Did they fall in love at 1st sight?

Thank you :)

[NoSanninWa]

Nobody falls in love. There is no love story. That's not what the show is about.

[TronDD]

Actually there is a single episode where Kirika gets a crush on that guy she sees painting by the river. As a romance story, it doesn't amount to much, but it is a very emotional episode.

[dreamless]

I guess you can say that Chloe falls in love with Kirika... and maybe Mireille loves her uncle... the love between Kirika and the painter is definitely very subtle and feels quite nice :D

[Yuun]

NOIR has come into my observations once but it's just too expansive for me to own it at that time...i think if i'm not mistaken is around RM185.00 >_< my one month allowance only RM100 how could i possible to bought it...>_<

My friends once told me... "Make Anime watching your hobby and you'll get a millionaire hobbies...and do you know that anime is a hobby where is more expansive than Golf?" And now i seems to get wat he mean >_<

I've only watch a couple of Episodes from Noir and the gun shooting scene is really rocks...even better than Gunslinger Girl....

[Ambience Blue]

I guess you can say that Chloe falls in love with Kirika... and maybe Mireille loves her uncle... the love between Kirika and the painter is definitely very subtle and feels quite nice :D

There's no real love (as in romance) between Kirika and Mireille, and Mirielle's link with her uncle is purely familial. The bond between Kirika and the painter, too, I believe, is more of a bond of comradeship. Both are painters struggling with dual lives as hitmen and killers, though they have doubts about it. I suppose Kirika just wants to feel normal, like he does. It is pretty poignant though, seeing the two. Lastly, as for Kirika and Chloe, it's a more a relationship of obsession. As Kirika later notes, "Chloe was the other side of me. Perhaps more of a power-control issue than a true romance. Regardless, I liked how the show treated the theme of justice. Many targets (those killed) were portrayed as decidedly human, but they had to go.

[TronDD]

The bond between Kirika and the painter, too, I believe, is more of a bond of comradeship. Both are painters struggling with dual lives as hitmen and killers, though they have doubts about it. I suppose Kirika just wants to feel normal, like he does. It is pretty poignant though, seeing the two.

Well Kirika starts painteing because he paints. She tries to be like him before she even knows anything about him, if I remember correctly. I think there is more of a romantic attraction to him in Kirika than you suggest. However, I'll agree that in the end, the episode is about their comradeship due to their similarities and how they can't escape who they are.

[AvatarADV]

There's no real love (as in romance) between Kirika and Mireille

Heh, unless you pay attention to what Kirika put in that letter... ;p Admittedly Kirika has more emotional issues than Spiderman has back issues, but even so.

[Ambience Blue]

Heh, unless you pay attention to what Kirika put in that letter... ;p Admittedly Kirika has more emotional issues than Spiderman has back issues, but even so.

Huh? Isn't the thing that Kirika wants to tell Mirielle is that When she (Kirika) killed Mirielle's mother, that she told her to take care of her daughter?

[TronDD]

Huh? Isn't the thing that Kirika wants to tell Mirielle is that When she (Kirika) killed Mirielle's mother, that she told her to take care of her daughter?

I don't think we find that out until later. It's reveiled in a flashback. I think the letter was just Kirika saying how much she loved Mirielle and their time together. "Thanks for taking care of me", and such.

[ClancyDamon]

I know this is pretty stupid, but I have a tendency to be driven insane by the things I just can't figure out at all. Anyway, towards the end,

what the hell happened exactly when Chloe shot Kirika? I mean, it looked like she took a shot straight to the face! There's no blood or gore so I can't be sure. Of course, if the bullet missed her or merely grazed her, she wouldn't have passed out and flown back 5 feet. Maybe this is supposed to be some kind of leap of faith headshot like in Max Payne 2 (If you've played the game, you know what I mean).

I just want to know if I missed something in there.

[Ambience Blue]

I know this is pretty stupid, but I have a tendency to be driven insane by the things I just can't figure out at all. Anyway, towards the end,

what the hell happened exactly when Chloe shot Kirika? I mean, it looked like she took a shot straight to the face! There's no blood or gore so I can't be sure. Of course, if the bullet missed her or merely grazed her, she wouldn't have passed out and flown back 5 feet. Maybe this is supposed to be some kind of leap of faith headshot like in Max Payne 2 (If you've played the game, you know what I mean).

I just want to know if I missed something in there.

Read a couple of the posts a little bit back on this thread (unspoil the spoiler tags lol). We had a major discussion about that. Something to the extent of It somehow triggered her memory about the past, and Chloe didn't really shoot her, just a near miss, or such.

[ClancyDamon]

I don't know.

How many times have bullets flown fractions of centimeters from Kirika's head in this series? Her sun hat was perforated in by M4 fire, that cop protecting the judge unloaded a whole clip at her, and what about those triads? No, all things considered I don't think a near miss should even register to her. And even if it did, people who haven't been shot generally don't fly backwards as if they had been.

[Ambience Blue]

I don't know.

How many times have bullets flown fractions of centimeters from Kirika's head in this series? Her sun hat was perforated in by M4 fire, that cop protecting the judge unloaded a whole clip at her, and what about those triads? No, all things considered I don't think a near miss should even register to her. And even if it did, people who haven't been shot generally don't fly backwards as if they had been.


I'm assuming the reason why it happened was because the situation was so much like the one she experienced when she killed Mirielle's parents, only it was her on the recieving end. It was the same Beretta 92F she used back then, it was the same, nearly-point-blank-range at which she shot, and all the three Noir-ettes were present (Chloe behind the column, Kirika with the pistol, and Mirielle behind the door). The coincidence was uncanny, and I suppose she flew back either as a self-defense impluse (think the Matrix lol!) or she fainted, and slipped on the rain-soaked roof. Just my opinion. I figured it's because Chloe's been hinting it all along, and triggered (excuse the pun) the memory-- since later, she reveals that as children, Kirika and Chloe knew each others when they trained, I'm sure both were well-aware of the situation and details surrounding Kirika's murder of the Bouquets.

[ClancyDamon]

Ok, thank you very much. I can accept that.

[eternal]

Hi there,

i'm the kind of person who fascinates with girl power,i've just finished NOIR,and it was great! I just like the bonding and friendship that evolves around girls,remember,only GIRLS.though i'm a girl myself.

Of course,i've been seeing Madlax as well...well,just finished downloading gunslinger girls,i hope it could turn out to be a nice series.As far as i can see,madlax is not completely the same with noir. *Since there's no kissing scene and stuff that has in noir*

As for maria sama ga miteru....just like the shoujo ai thingy,the story itself has nothing really interesting actually.

So what do u guys think? What's your opinion about noir? Is Kirika in love with mireille? And well,there's so much thing left behind unexplained...who was actually kirika?(don't tell me she's NOIR!)
why did she hold a gun at an age of,4,probably! ?

So then,see ya!

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[dreamless]

there is a noir thread, I guess this one will be merged pretty soon...

anyway since Kirika actually clearly said that she loves Mirielle in the letter she wrote to her, so there's no doubt in the shoujo-ai stuff imo...

About Kirika's age, I mentioned it in Madlax thread, but I'll say it again here, I guess it is possible that Kirika and Mirielle are at the same age, or only 1 year apart, ie. Kirika is 17 and Mirielle is 17 or 18. So maybe she was not as young as we thought when she did the assassination back then.

About who is she, she is one of the three chosen by Altena to become Noir, so Kirika received some super trainings at young age I guess...

[Fellini 8.5]

Is Kirika in love with mireille?

Noir's my absolute all-time fav (and Madlax is coming in a solid 2nd), and I've rewatched it many times. While the nature of the relationship is deliberately vague (at least according to the liner notes), there are a handful of looks Kirika sneaks that are a bit suggestive. The most dramatic is on the beach in Uglia, where Kirika slowly looks back at Mireille when she says "it's so beautiful". Her gaze holds for a beat, and then glances back really fast like she's caught herself thinking something she shouldn't.

Well, that's the way you could easily project on to it, at least. You could also take the safe route that due to the ensuing flashback (and the sound of waves that continue during it), she's instead reminded of that situation instead. I like my theory better. :)

Another is in NYC when Mireille gets up from bed in that nightgown; Kirika's eyes are definitely open for interpretation. ;)

Anyway, it's a lot of fun finding all the little clues, and simple subtle expressions make the show.

[Ambience Blue]

Hmm. I've always believed that the relationship between the girls was more of a bond of fellowship than actual lustful love. I've interpreted Kirika's actions as more admiration towards Mirielle. She's, taller, more "mature", rather good-looking, popular, and somewhat "normal" when compared to her and her past. Though she's far by the superior killer, Kirika yearns to lead a somewhat normal life. I suppose that's why she was so attracted to the one painter from Season from Hell. Just my $0.02 :heh:

[dreamless]

well, it's definitely not a "bodily love"... not yet at least... more like a platonian romance relationship I guess... something like in Kiddy Grade, and maybe .hack//SIGN...

It's safe to say that Koichi loves lesbian overtone a lot I guess :heh:

[Sonhex]

well, it's definitely not a "bodily love"... not yet at least... more like a platonian romance relationship I guess... something like in Kiddy Grade, and maybe .hack//SIGN...

It's safe to say that Koichi loves lesbian overtone a lot I guess :heh:

It seems that if some people look for sexual connotations they will find it. I think the only possible saphic aspect to Noir was Chloe's kiss, but I think even that was a tender act of 'joining'. Chloe and Kirika are sole mates, since the beginning, their bond was ethereal and the kiss was more like 'self love' than anything else.

That aside, Noir is an imperfect masterpiece.

[dreamless]

Well it's nothing "sexual", but more like "spiritual" and "emotional"... but then how often do we see real "sexual" relationships even between male and female leads in animes (excluding hentai animes of course)? Take for example, the relationship between Van and Hitomi in Escaflowne, there's also nothing sexual between them... Yanagi and Recca in Flame of Recca? Nothing sexual neither. Seiya and Athena in Saint Seiya? Not in a million years :p

It'd be hard to find real sexual relationship in normal shounen animes, not to mention shoujo-ai animes. I think the best way to describe them is that they are "companions of a lifetime" or something, as in Noir and Kiddy Grade... ;)

[Sonhex]

Well it's nothing "sexual", but more like "spiritual" and "emotional"... but then how often do we see real "sexual" relationships even between male and female leads in animes (excluding hentai animes of course)? Take for example, the relationship between Van and Hitomi in Escaflowne, there's also nothing sexual between them... Yanagi and Recca in Flame of Recca? Nothing sexual neither. Seiya and Athena in Saint Seiya? Not in a million years :p

It'd be hard to find real sexual relationship in normal shounen animes, not to mention shoujo-ai animes. I think the best way to describe them is that they are "companions of a lifetime" or something, as in Noir and Kiddy Grade... ;)

Well, the previous posts were concerned with the supposed sexual aspects of Kirika and Mirielle's relationship. I was merely suggesting if you look for it you will find it, whether it exists or not, as their relationship was purposefully vague at best. There's a lot open to interpretation between the main three characters, but only Chloe's kiss has any definate connotations.

[dreamless]

Well, the previous posts were concerned with the supposed sexual aspects of Kirika and Mirielle's relationship. I was merely suggesting if you look for it you will find it, whether it exists or not, as their relationship was purposefully vague at best. There's a lot open to interpretation between the main three characters, but only Chloe's kiss has any definate connotations.
Hmm... where do you find the "supposed sexual aspects"? you mean in previous pages months back? The recent previous posts said nothing about "sexual" aspects of Kirika and Mirielle's relationship, eternal asked "Is Kirika in love with mireille?" and I think there's nothing "sexual" in it. And the answer to the question is a resounding yes imo since Kirika clearly expressed that she loved Mirielle in the last letter she gave her. Anyway were you replying to me post or not? it could be kinda confusing :p

but then there are indeed some suggestive scenes that's open to interpretation for sure... as Fellini posted... ;)

[Sonhex]

Hmm... where do you find the "supposed sexual aspects"? you mean in previous pages months back? The recent previous posts said nothing about "sexual" aspects of Kirika and Mirielle's relationship, eternal asked "Is Kirika in love with mireille?" and I think there's nothing "sexual" in it. And the answer to the question is a resounding yes imo since Kirika clearly expressed that she loved Mirielle in the last letter she gave her. Anyway were you replying to me post or not? it could be kinda confusing :p

but then there are indeed some suggestive scenes that's open to interpretation for sure... as Fellini posted... ;)

Yeah sorry, I was responding to Fellini's comments. Most specifically ...

Another is in NYC when Mireille gets up from bed in that nightgown; Kirika's eyes are definitely open for interpretation.

...suggestive or 'sexual' connotation? Same thing if you ask me in this context i.e. does Kirika harbour lustful feelings for Mirielle. I don't think she does. I think she loves her without a doubt. But it's the love of close friends. It may be intimate in one respect, but not sexual.

Let's not get into semantics though. :p

[Khi]

I read an essay (http://www.intoccabile.net/kirika/lesbianism.htm) on this whole relationship between Kirika/Mireille/Chloe, it's an interesting read :)

[Trax]

I just finished watching Noir, and it was simply amazing. The story did progress slowly, but for some reason it still kept me enthralled and I just couldn't stop watching. There were some things that bothered me like the excessive flashbacks, but in retrospect those were built up very nicely towards the real revelation of what happened. The gunfights are a bit cliche (the bad guys never seem to be able to hit anything), but that didn't really bother me and I did generally like the action especially some of the near superhuman feats of agility and crafty moves by Kirika.

The ending felt very powerful to me, and Altena's theory of hate being able to save was definately disproved there imo (instead of shooting Altena to save Mirreille, Kirika took the bullet instead).

It's obvious Mirreille and Kirika became very close, but I don't think it's in terms of an actual intimate relationship. Also don't think they were shot at the end, I doubt the Soldats are that dishonorable. Even if they tried it wouldn't have been that easy. I imagine they'd keep an eye on them, but leave it at that if they didn't cause any trouble for Soldats. They certainly earned it. Although I'll have to admit I don't quite understand the purpose of those shots then.

I also thought that headshot from Chloe to Kirika was strange. I can imagine it served to relive those moments where Kirika killed Odette Bouquet, but I suppose she must have missed on purpose then cause I doubt there were any blanks in that gun. One thing still bothering me is, what happened to Kirika before? How did she lose her memory and why was she left in that state?

[dreamless]

personally, this is what I think I think the whole "love can hurt, but hate can't save" stuff is some random nonsense which is just there to make it sounds cool... or something... I mean, yup Kirika took the bullet saving Mirielle, but what if she's killed by it? :eyespin: well of course we know she's the main protagonist so she won't be killed by it... oh well, so I guess it didn't prove or disprove anything... except that it's hard to kill main protagonists in animes :p

about why is Kirika in that state, and why Chloe's shot can "awaken" her, I think the explanation is a very simple one : Kirika is brainwashed by hypnotism to induce the amnesia, and the key to remove the hypnosis is set to be gunshot from Chloe. I'd say there's nothing to do with reliving certain previous moments or experiencing shocks to regain memory, but rather the other way around, as when the hypnosis is removed by the preset "key", so the memories are regained. And the most important memories came back first, which is her first assassination job. And the reason that Kirika is put in that state is obviously to train her and Mirielle to become Noir. It'd be impossible for Kirika and Mirielle to become true friends if Kirika's memories are not removed, but Altena wanted them to become true friends, in her plan only true friends can become Noir, so she removed Kirika's memory. Also it'd be a bit pointless to send the "Knights" to test Kirika and Mirielle if Kirika knows everything right from the start...

[Sonhex]

I just finished watching Noir, and it was simply amazing. The story did progress slowly, but for some reason it still kept me enthralled and I just couldn't stop watching. There were some things that bothered me like the excessive flashbacks, but in retrospect those were built up very nicely towards the real revelation of what happened. The gunfights are a bit cliche (the bad guys never seem to be able to hit anything), but that didn't really bother me and I did generally like the action especially some of the near superhuman feats of agility and crafty moves by Kirika.

The ending felt very powerful to me, and Altena's theory of hate being able to save was definately disproved there imo (instead of shooting Altena to save Mirreille, Kirika took the bullet instead).

It's obvious Mirreille and Kirika became very close, but I don't think it's in terms of an actual intimate relationship. Also don't think they were shot at the end, I doubt the Soldats are that dishonorable. Even if they tried it wouldn't have been that easy. I imagine they'd keep an eye on them, but leave it at that if they didn't cause any trouble for Soldats. They certainly earned it. Although I'll have to admit I don't quite understand the purpose of those shots then.

I also thought that headshot from Chloe to Kirika was strange. I can imagine it served to relive those moments where Kirika killed Odette Bouquet, but I suppose she must have missed on purpose then cause I doubt there were any blanks in that gun. One thing still bothering me is, what happened to Kirika before? How did she lose her memory and why was she left in that state?



It's been a while since I watched it, but wasn't it implied that...

...Kirika after her training, had her memory wiped, was given a new identity and dumped into society as a 'task' to become Noir? Then she and Mirielle were brought together to fight it out for the chance to join Chloe. I don't think it was ever explained, but that's my take on it.

Apart from being utterly heart stopping (I seriously thought she was dead), the headshot has always puzzled me too, it did seem odd considering it was Kirika's gun. Bu I guess the Chloe missed purposefully knowling the 'shock' would trigger Kirika's memories.

[TronDD]

It's been a while since I watched it, but wasn't it implied that...

...Kirika after her training, had her memory wiped, was given a new identity and dumped into society as a 'task' to become Noir? Then she and Mirielle were brought together to fight it out for the chance to join Chloe. I don't think it was ever explained, but that's my take on it.

Apart from being utterly heart stopping (I seriously thought she was dead), the headshot has always puzzled me too, it did seem odd considering it was Kirika's gun. Bu I guess the Chloe missed purposefully knowling the 'shock' would trigger Kirika's memories.



I figured erasing Kirika's memory after training was how she would be different from Cloe who was trained the same but retained he memory and life at the manor. The profecy was to plant the seeds in different soil.

About Cloe "shooting" Kirika. I wonder if that moment was sort of programmed into Kirka as the thing that would return her memories. Like a post hypnotic suggestion. Kirika is pretty much prorammed and goes through the trials and things just as Altena wants her to. And Cloe knows to do that and that it will return her memory to her.

[Sonhex]

I figured erasing Kirika's memory after training was how she would be different from Cloe who was trained the same but retained he memory and life at the manor. The profecy was to plant the seeds in different soil.

About Cloe "shooting" Kirika. I wonder if that moment was sort of programmed into Kirka as the thing that would return her memories. Like a post hypnotic suggestion. Kirika is pretty much prorammed and goes through the trials and things just as Altena wants her to. And Cloe knows to do that and that it will return her memory to her.

Yep...
...I wouldn't have been surprised if it was a pre-planned memory 'trigger' considering Altena's bias toward Chloe and Kirika was pretty obvious.

Ironic, in the end, that Mirielle made it to the Manor with sheer nerve rather than being 'engineered' by Altena.

[dreamless]

but still it's all under Altena's plan. the Noir candidates are intentionally raised differently, as Altena put it, multiple seedlings need to be raised in different environments. Altena obviously planned Mirielle's arrival at the Manor, as she is indeed, in some sense, "engineered" by Altena to become true friends with Kirika... She "engineered" Kirika and erased her memory so she can become true friends with Mirielle after all...

And I always think a preset key to an amnesia-inducing hypnotism is the most likely answer to Chloe's gunshot, else how can she be so sure of it can "awaken" Kirika? ;)

Still the main plot is imo mediocre at best, especially with the repeated "love can hurt, hate can't save" crap over and over again in the last few episodes, and that totally idiotic and suicidal "brave save" done by Kirika in the end Personally I love a lot of the "side plots" in Noir much much more than the main plot...

[Trax]

Seems to me that Altena took the prophecies way too seriously which backfired in the end. The Noirs could have been put through trials with different methods while keeping Kirika's memory intact (such methods were also used on different occasions). Mireille would probably never have entered the picture. It doesn't make much sense that Mireille is involved while Altena considered her unfit. Kirika and Chloe made the perfect duo, skillwise, as evidenced in one episode where all three of them were tested. Mireille was pretty much stunned when she saw them in action perfectly attuned to eachother. I still wonder if it was really Altena's intention all along to get Mireille and Kirika teamed up, since she could have avoided this possibility altogether.

I also wonder what happened to Chloe's en Kirika's parents, I have a feeling that Altena had them killed anyway, whether they objected or not, just so there would be no chance of outside influences during their indoctrination. Also wonder what Kirika's real name is although I suppose Kirika may just have accepted her adopted identity in the end.

[dreamless]

actually I think Mirielle and Kirika are the planned Noir right from the start. My guess is that Altena want one "conditioned" Noir and one "natural" Noir. They need to be raised in different environments... I think the actual skills are relatively unimportant in comparison to her ideal of "true Noir". Also I guess she want the Noir to be true friends developed naturally while the relationship between Kirika and Chloe is more like "conditioned" than naturally developed... It's quite clear in the end, that Altena said that Mirielle is the intended Noir while Chloe is intended to be the last trial and to be disposed of in the end...

[Trax]

Argh I'll have to rewatch the whole thing just so I can fill in some of the blanks... I'll let this sink in a while first though, don't wanna OD on this stuff. :D

[Ambience Blue]

actually I think Mirielle and Kirika are the planned Noir right from the start. My guess is that Altena want one "conditioned" Noir and one "natural" Noir. They need to be raised in different environments... I think the actual skills are relatively unimportant in comparison to her ideal of "true Noir". Also I guess she want the Noir to be true friends developed naturally while the relationship between Kirika and Chloe is more like "conditioned" than naturally developed... It's quite clear in the end, that Altena said that Mirielle is the intended Noir while Chloe is intended to be the last trial and to be disposed of in the end... Well... At the time of the murder of Mirrielle's parents, Chloe was there too, obviously affiliated with Altena at that point. According to Chloe, watching Kirika kill was the reason why she decided to become an assassin too. So Chloe was part of the program from the start. As for Mirielle, Altena notes that though the seeds were spread on different ground, one had grown rank and unkempt from misattention (referring to Mirielle, who was not taken to the Noir-training-academy :heh: and instead lived in normal society.) Due to honoring tradition (with which, Altena is obsessed), I'm guessing that Altena gave Mirielle a chance, but otherwise, didn't consider her a suitable candidate for Noir. Basically, she had the talent, but since her parents refused to give her up to Altena's care, her skills had not matured, nor grown. chloe, thus, the superior killer, hit higher on the list.

[dreamless]

Well... At the time of the murder of Mirrielle's parents, Chloe was there too, obviously affiliated with Altena at that point. According to Chloe, watching Kirika kill was the reason why she decided to become an assassin too. So Chloe was part of the program from the start. As for Mirielle, Altena notes that though the seeds were spread on different ground, one had grown rank and unkempt from misattention (referring to Mirielle, who was not taken to the Noir-training-academy :heh: and instead lived in normal society.) Due to honoring tradition (with which, Altena is obsessed), I'm guessing that Altena gave Mirielle a chance, but otherwise, didn't consider her a suitable candidate for Noir. Basically, she had the talent, but since her parents refused to give her up to Altena's care, her skills had not matured, nor grown. chloe, thus, the superior killer, hit higher on the list.
Hmm... but I remember Altena clearly told that priestess in the last episode that Mirielle is the intended Noir from the start. I think Chloe is included in the program right from the start indeed, but as a final trial for the Noir, not as a Noir. I guess Altena said that Mirielle was "unsuitable" in previous episodes just to manipulate others (Chloe, the priestesses, the other Soldats members, etc. etc.) for her real plan. So that priestess was quite angered and said that Altena tricked them all this time.

[guest]

I wouldn't have been surprised if it was a pre-planned memory 'trigger' considering Altena's bias toward Chloe and Kirika was pretty obvious.

Ironic, in the end, that Mirielle made it to the Manor with sheer nerve rather than being 'engineered' by Altena.

I still wonder if it was really Altena's intention all along to get Mireille and Kirika teamed up, since she could have avoided this possibility altogether.


what!!?? I thought Altena was biased toward Kirika and Murielle! It was shown in the last two ep. She wants someone who is not constrained, i.e., Murielle because she was not raised inside of les Soldats circle. Yeah, it’s all in her plan. She couldn’t avoid this possibility because she wants someone who is free from les Soldats.



"love can hurt, hate can't save" crap over and over again in the last few episodes, and that totally idiotic and suicidal "brave save" done by Kirika in the end

That’s why I love this… cliché. This is one of the cliché that is SO VERY EASILY said than done. Sure everyone knows about it but how many have actually done it, not to mention to the extend that Kirika takes? Even more importantly, if they are to face this situation, very few people can actually do it. But Kirika did.

[dreamless]

That’s why I love this… cliché. This is one of the cliché that is SO VERY EASILY said than done. Sure everyone knows about it but how many have actually done it, not to mention to the extend that Kirika takes? Even more importantly, if they are to face this situation, very few people can actually do it. But Kirika did. I guess very few people can actually do it because very few people are actually stupid enough to do it, and that no people live in anime... not to mention as anime protagonists... :p

I mean, if you do that kind of things in real life, you'll most likely end up dead with your enemies laughing over your corpse... about whether everyone knows about it, I'm not sure, I myself don't particularly agree with that kind of logic (or philosophy, or reasoning, or whatever)

In the end the only thing it proved is that it's very hard to kill an anime main protagonist :heh: :eyespin:

[Fellini 8.5]

Hmm... but I remember Altena clearly told that priestess in the last episode that Mirielle is the intended Noir from the start. I think Chloe is included in the program right from the start indeed, but as a final trial for the Noir, not as a Noir. I guess Altena said that Mirielle was "unsuitable" in previous episodes just to manipulate others (Chloe, the priestesses, the other Soldats members, etc. etc.) for her real plan. So that priestess was quite angered and said that Altena tricked them all this time.

I'm pretty sure Altena never inferred anything about Mireille's "unsuitability"; in fact, she specifically said to Chloe "You know as well as I that the Daughter of Corsica is also fit". The ones claiming Mireille's unsuitability were the priestessess (during the Gladiator fight :) ), and Chloe would barely acknowledge that Mireille was even invited to the party.

I think everyone else was assuming Mireille was the "leftover" (even most of the audience, as many posts then and now seem to reflect), but there's lots of little clues -- especially in Altena's reactions to Chloe in the last few episodes, and including the other symbol of Noir on Altena's wax seal and Remy Breffort's ring -- one maiden with the swords, the other with the Scales. The pair "in perfect balance" or something.

...or so goes another of my theories; more stuff you can read into it and project as much as you want. :)


Regarding the "cliche":
Altena wants an independent "pure" blade to save the world from what the Soldats have become. Her tragic background has ingrained in her that "hatred saves" (another theory is that she shot the rapist -- she's staring at the gun, then there's a flash of red, and we all know what red means in this series, right? ;) ) So she's engineered a team where the "brains" would be driven by revenge on the Soldats, and the "brawn" would devotedly follow along. At the end, when Mireille dropped the idea of vengance, Altena tries "plan B" (she likely may have anticipated it, nothing in her reaction showed surprise to Mireille's statement), so she goes to work on trying to guilt Kirika into it, provoking her devotion to Mireille.

But it's Kirika's final memory of Odette's "cliche" message, where you see the tears in Kirika's lil' eyes, that it "clicks" and she takes the unexpected action of taking the bullet (which, obviously, surprised Altena greatly). Essentially, it's the key to defeating Altena's plans for a vengeful Noir. It may have played into Breffort's plans for a "seeking the light" Noir, but that'd be reading way too much into it with little to no evidence. Heh. ;)


I could keep going on and on about this show all night, but I'll spare y'all for now... :)

One last bit about the "suggestiveness" though; in my first exposure to the show as it was airing on INHD a while back, I only caught a handful of eps out of order, and at the time I thought I sensed that there was a serious sexual tension beneath it. Once I saw the whole series in a row (and then again, and again, and again),
I actually, honestly, don't see it. There's a strong devotion and attachment, a true bond that forms, but despite the fact that I like to tease about the more "suggestive" shots, I really don't believe that there's anything sexual about it either. And it's all the more wonderful because of it.

The ambiguity was the bait, though... ;)

(Now I've gotta go rewatch ep 19 of Madlax! WTF!!)

[dreamless]

for that "cliche" (albeit I personally don't think it's "cliche", since imo most other anime do better in this aspect :eyespin: ) part... well, but in the end she tried to bash Altena into the larva with her own body... I can hardly call that an act of love... I really don't see why she can't shoot Altena, and if she really don't want to kill her, she can shoot her limbs or the gun or something... but now she takes the bullet (luckily that doesn't kill her) and tries to kill Altena by bashing her into the larva, and throwing herself into it at the same time, which will be killing both Altena and herself... obviously she still can't really do the Ghandi's way of nonviolence resistance I guess :heh:

Well I'd say it's just an anime with a mediocre main plot and a below-mediocre message that shouldn't be taken too seriously anyway... :p

:topicoff: Madlax is more and more interesting! ep19 is CRAZY!!! :cool:

[Sonhex]

Noir wasn't perfect, but it certainly wasn't mediocre. It did miss a lot of opportunities to capatilize on its characters. For example, I always thought that they missed a big opportunity to make Kirika a more 'human' character when...

... Mirielle found her letter under the plant pot. If she had also found her painting, the one she did from the episode with the painter guy, it would have spoken volumes more than just a letter alone.

It would have shown Kirika as a girl with her own hopes and dreams, that she did indeed have another life to live and aspire too.

I won't get to see Madlax 19 till the weekend :sad:

[Trax]

I was rather disappointed she gave up on painting at the end of that painter episode. I suppose it turned into a bad memory which she didn't want to be reminded of.

[dreamless]

Noir wasn't perfect, but it certainly wasn't mediocre. It did miss a lot of opportunities to capatilize on its characters. For example, I always thought that they missed a big opportunity to make Kirika a more 'human' character when...

... Mirielle found her letter under the plant pot. If she had also found her painting, the one she did from the episode with the painter guy, it would have spoken volumes more than just a letter alone.

It would have shown Kirika as a girl with her own hopes and dreams, that she did indeed have another life to live and aspire too.

I won't get to see Madlax 19 till the weekend :sad:
No I don't mean the anime is mediocre, I just think the main plot is mediocre especially towards the end, but I think the whole series is great, with some of my all time favorite side plots ;)

[Khi]

About Cloe "shooting" Kirika. I wonder if that moment was sort of programmed into Kirka as the thing that would return her memories. Like a post hypnotic suggestion. Kirika is pretty much prorammed and goes through the trials and things just as Altena wants her to. And Cloe knows to do that and that it will return her memory to her.

Shooting...

Kirika's getting shot at in every epi, so its odd that only when Chloe shot at her that she regained her memory... maybe it was just the sheer closeness of the shot.

[TronDD]

Shooting...

Kirika's getting shot at in every epi, so its odd that only when Chloe shot at her that she regained her memory... maybe it was just the sheer closeness of the shot.

Not just getting shot at. But everything. Getting shot at by Chloe was just the "final guidence". Everything else Chloe says and does all along is probably part of the key that unlocks Kirika's memories. You see Kirika become more and more like Chloe leading up to the shot.

[Fellini 8.5]

re: Kirika's suicidal save... My thoughts:

Like the fact that Mireille had to overcome her vengance, Kirika had one last thing she had to overcome too. Throughout the whole series, she'd been ready to die. To be killed by Mireille. She was too well programmed to survive to be able to allow herself to be killed by any of the attacking forces (even after the Final Guidance when she was walking through the cemetary), only Mireille would be able to do it. So even though her last act was to try and prevent Altena from being able to harm Mireille any further, she really still wanted to die. She needed to want to live.


...or something like that. :)

Anyway, it's great to see a smattering of Noir debate still going on; I thought that since I happened upon the show so late that I missed it all!

[Fellini 8.5]

... Mirielle found her letter under the plant pot. If she had also found her painting, the one she did from the episode with the painter guy, it would have spoken volumes more than just a letter alone.

It would have shown Kirika as a girl with her own hopes and dreams, that she did indeed have another life to live and aspire too.


Actually, I think that her not having her painting anymore might have been the point; in a lot of ways, her aspiration for another life was metaphorically shot to pieces because of the cold hard reality of who she is.

Anyway, I really liked Milosh; he was the one guy in the series I could most closely identify with. Except replace "French Foreign Legion" with "Xerox Corporation" and "shooting people and getting medals seems to be the only thing I'm good at" with "going to a lot of stupid meetings seems to be the only thing I'm good at". ;)

[Mgz]

Hello, another Madlax referered Noir watcher :p ..and like you guy, I *LOVE* this anime... :love: and I saw that i'm not the only one who confused about the ending here :D.

Anyone watch the ending credit(I had this habit cuz recently I've just watched RahXephon :( )? Why there is only one girl? Base on the hair style&color it should be Chlnoe :eyespin: ? Isn't it paradise? Why do they color the gun pink (sic) and blue? Why does Kirika nake in the room :dots: ? ANd the gun with the magazine unloaded I think symbolized that they still alive and stop killing :twitch: ..damn, it is so brain teasing...... :bash:

[Sonhex]

Actually, I think that her not having her painting anymore might have been the point; in a lot of ways, her aspiration for another life was metaphorically shot to pieces because of the cold hard reality of who she is.


Hmm...yeah maybe, but...

...the purpose of the letter , in plot terms, was to give Mirielle that push to follow Kirika. It was the point that she realised how much Kirika meant to her and vice versa. The painting may have just helped tie in the previous episodes and flesh out Kirika's cold personality. But like you say, at this stage she was an emotionless blob...

After all this talk, I really need to sit down and rewatch it, though finding 12 hours to spare is tricky ....:D

[guest]

Anyone watch the ending credit(I had this habit cuz recently I've just watched RahXephon :( )? Why there is only one girl? Base on the hair style&color it should be Chlnoe :eyespin: ? Isn't it paradise? Why do they color the gun pink (sic) and blue? Why does Kirika nake in the room :dots: ? ANd the gun with the magazine unloaded I think symbolized that they still alive and stop killing :twitch: ..damn, it is so brain teasing...... :bash:Huh? I always thought that it was Kirika all along. After all, she is the main character and that's Murielle's room. You can see her teddy bear (the one she held when her parents were killed) in the background with all other stuff that's kind of like Murielle's apartment. I like that paradise and the room. It gives a very relaxing feeling, as if people who live there just wake up one morning, the bed is not made because it's unnecessary, and just being lazy. Maybe that's why Kirika is naked. It's OK to be naked in a paradise. :D

[Ambience Blue]

Huh? I always thought that it was Kirika all along. After all, she is the main character and that's Murielle's room. You can see her teddy bear (the one she held when her parents were killed) in the background with all other stuff that's kind of like Murielle's apartment. I like that paradise and the room. It gives a very relaxing feeling, as if people who live there just wake up one morning, the bed is not made because it's unnecessary, and just being lazy. Maybe that's why Kirika is naked. It's OK to be naked in a paradise. :D Me too. I'm pretty sure it was Kirika. That's the same straw hat she was wearing when she blasted the he!! out of those poor guerillas, wasn't it? :heh: . Which, btw I love the ED. That song has been stuck in my head for ages.

[MartAnimE]

Hello... Did I wake up anyone? :uhoh: I hope this thread isn't dead :heh:
Noir happens to be my number 1 anime and I didn't even had the chance to post in this thread yet :heh: I know, shameless... :p
I got to see noir relatively late considering the year it was emited, anyway I watched the fansubs, I bought the Region 1 dvds, which don't normally run on a european dvd player by the way :heh: and I'm planning on buying the european region 2 dvd release, which will include portuguese subtitles and a french dub (I just have to hear that :heh: ) That's just how much of a fan I am :D
Back on the subject, not a complex analysis or interpretation, just a simple question that I think no one mentioned before: does watching noir for the first time gave you any kind of happy felling at any point on the series? before the end of course... :heh: I noticed there are almost no humor on it, except for some sarcastic remarks from Mireille :heh: , of course this isn't a comedy and it's definetly not supposed to be funny but it gets so heavy at times cuz it rarely portraits positive emotions... But that's a good thing in my opinion cuz it makes us realise those few good thinks that happen in the show once in a while and it makes us value them much more then we would normally would on other circunstances. Things like that kitten, Prince Myskin, on episode 6. When it pops its head out of the paper bag and goes "meow" I just thought: this is the cuttest thing I've ever seen, it just warmed my heart :)

[JoeStoppable]

Just wondering but do the DVD's have any special extras on them? And if so, what are they?

BTW Noir = Best anime ever
Noir OST = Best OST ever

[yslee]

Noir isn't that great. A bit slow at the start, and the action isn't great save for a few scenes. Maybe I've been spoilt by too much HK gunfighting drama. =P But really, the action usually consists of said heroines standing and and shooting and having the bad guys drop like flies...

I do like the OST lots, makes for very good background music for some games!

[Shigan]

Try to not see Noir as an action and it will become a lot more enjoyable. I actually did the same thing, I thought it was going to be a girl-pair shoot-up a la Gunsmith Cats thing, and MAN did that change when I dropped the action idea.

Noir is firstly and lastly a drama. If you want a andreline pumping action fiesta, go Samurai Champloo or the one with a maincharacter named Vash the Stampede instead.

As much as I had love to write all my love for this show here, I'll just devote the energy to my stories instead ^^

[MartAnimE]

Just wondering but do the DVD's have any special extras on them? And if so, what are they?

If you're talking about region 1 dvd's, yes they have special extras :) You get cleaning OP/ED, production sketches, japanese voice actor interviews, english voice actor interviews, and if you find the easter eggs you'll get music videos, some more interviews with english voice actors and a really silly mini story with "socket puppets" as the characters, made by the english voice actors :heh:
If you're talking about the region 2 dvd's, I really don't know cuz they're not available in Portugal yet :( but I guess they won't have any special extras, unfortunately, anime dvd releases in Portugal don't usually bring many extras :(

BTW Noir = Best anime ever
Noir OST = Best OST ever

You are soo right! :D

[Fellini 8.5]

Back on the subject, not a complex analysis or interpretation, just a simple question that I think no one mentioned before: does watching noir for the first time gave you any kind of happy felling at any point on the series? before the end of course... :heh: I noticed there are almost no humor on it, except for some sarcastic remarks from Mireille :heh: , of course this isn't a comedy and it's definetly not supposed to be funny but it gets so heavy at times cuz it rarely portraits positive emotions... But that's a good thing in my opinion cuz it makes us realise those few good thinks that happen in the show once in a while and it makes us value them much more then we would normally would on other circunstances. Things like that kitten, Prince Myskin, on episode 6. When it pops its head out of the paper bag and goes "meow" I just thought: this is the cuttest thing I've ever seen, it just warmed my heart :)

This discussion just came up over on another forum I lurk in; one of the posters insisted that Noir was indeed funny!

And I agree!

It's not funny in a "ha-ha-joking" kind of way; no not at all. More of a "twinkle-in-the-eye" kind of way. Very dry. A lot of it is in Mireille's expression when she reacts to something or another that Kirika does. Like that long beat in episode 2 when she asks Kirika for the knife. And there are lots of moments like the one you mention with Prince Myshkin. The ice-cream cone! (Right, Shigan? ;) ) The way Chloe just strolls into the apartment and starts flipping through a magazine -- that was both extreme tension and probably the funniest thing in the entire series, all in one!

After the return from Austria, though, those little bits of humor come to a stop; everything is dead serious. Until the end of the sequence where Mireille meets Remi Grupal and says "Well, maybe not alone, anyway". (cue music) That last little exchange is a little light oasis until...

...when she first happened upon the scene at the purification pool, Mireille kind of tries to treat it lightly, almost hopefully, in a "well, well, what do we have here" sort of look, but when she sees Kirika's reaction, you can see Mireille's change in expression to resignation. Showing that it's going to have to stay dead serious just a little longer.

But finally, after the "forking", and Kirika & Mireille are cleaning their guns in preparation for the final assault. "Just a couple of dummies like you and me, huh?" Smiles again for the first time in a long time. Ahh. Feels good.

And of course, the punch line to the whole thing -- "Let's go have some tea and we'll talk about it later." Yes! :D


Oh jeez, you've got me going with my blowhard act on another thread here! "Oh lord, there goes that Fellini again!" ;)

[MartAnimE]

The way Chloe just strolls into the apartment and starts flipping through a magazine -- that was both extreme tension and probably the funniest thing in the entire series, all in one!

Yeah, that was damn funny, cuz it was so unexpected, so... out of place, and Kirika offering Chloe tea while Mireille was still in shock was the final blow... :heh: Now I remember I was really laughing at that part, it just looked so absurd, it really was a "mad tea party" :heh:

:topicoff: when I watched Kill Bill, that scene when Vernita offers Black Mamba coffe, just after destroying the whole house on a fight... that really reminded me of noir's "mad tea party" :heh: I wonder if Quentin Tarantino watched noir, since he stated himself that this particular movie was heavilly influenced by anime :heh:

[Yuiichi]

Noir... one of the first anime (other than stupid american TV anime). The thing that i liked the most was the character development. The way that they did it, you got to know the characters little by little, and ended up liking them more and more.

And i must agree, the OST for Noir is excellent... i especially love the celtic vibes that they sometimes feature ^_^ Now thats my kind of music!

[JoeStoppable]

Dude Chloe ALL THE WAY!!!!

I was a little mad that she had to die :sad: . But there can only be 2. The way she died was freakin tight too. Using the fork that Kirika gave her. I think someone already said that, but yah i just wanna say it again.

No one was tougher than Chloe, she didnt even use guns. The one side story with her and that one general in the mountains. That episode was dope. It showed her more compassionate side. Her granting the old mans request to leave his body guards alone, and than taking revenge on the guy who tried to kill him. She was freakin awsome.

But than again, who on Noir wasnt awsome. EVEN THE NUNS at the manor were freakin awsome, the one with the bullet proof armor. DOPE!!!!!

[Ambience Blue]

NOIR = IMO one of the best series ever created.

I absolutely loved everything about it, from the drama to even (the sometimes overplayed) action. A wonderful meld overall, I had both OSTs playing in my stereo for months. I'd read about it in Newtype years ago and had forgotten about it until I picked it up about a year ago. One of my Top 5, eheh.

[Innotech]

I collected the whole series. all 7 volumes. Completely worth every penny IMO.
As for the ending, they purposefully left it ambiguous as many shows do. It really depends on how you see it, metaphorically or literally as to what your take on the ending is. I side with the metaphorical view.

[JoeStoppable]

NOIR = IMO one of the best series ever created.

I absolutely loved everything about it, from the drama to even (the sometimes overplayed) action. A wonderful meld overall, I had both OSTs playing in my stereo for months. I'd read about it in Newtype years ago and had forgotten about it until I picked it up about a year ago. One of my Top 5, eheh.


I totally Agree with you. Its in number 1 position for me. Actually for me its Chobits and Noir are tied. Noir is up by a little bit. I mean the thing putting it a little bit above chobits is the OST. Noirs OST is best ost in the world. I still listen to it. I got it when it came out and I'm still listening to it.

All fans of Noir are freakin Awsome in my book. :heh:

[yslee]

Try to not see Noir as an action and it will become a lot more enjoyable. I actually did the same thing, I thought it was going to be a girl-pair shoot-up a la Gunsmith Cats thing, and MAN did that change when I dropped the action idea.

Noir is firstly and lastly a drama. If you want a andreline pumping action fiesta, go Samurai Champloo or the one with a maincharacter named Vash the Stampede instead.

As much as I had love to write all my love for this show here, I'll just devote the energy to my stories instead ^^
It was hard to ignore the action.. I wouldn't have mind if they cut it out, but to place such terribly done action sequences really had me going "huh?" quite a few times.

Besides, given the genre and the direction the show took, a good dose of action simply had to be done.. else it'd be like Star Wars without the lightsabres.

Basically my complaint is that the action scenes were just so unconvincing and lifeless most of the time. Hard to suspend the disbelief when watching the show when that happens!

[Koboshi38]

Allot of people in this thread have complained about how allot of the action is believeable.. And I agree with them.. However it doesnt bother me because this is anime.. I Mean Really Most anime doesnt have believable fights At All. They always have people with Amazing Swordsmanship Skills Or magic powers etc. its kinda like a Hong kong action Movie Sure the action is fun but its normally not realistic and hey thats just the way anime is and that is also what makes it so much fun

[Ambience Blue]

I totally Agree with you. Its in number 1 position for me. Actually for me its Chobits and Noir are tied. Noir is up by a little bit. I mean the thing putting it a little bit above chobits is the OST. Noirs OST is best ost in the world. I still listen to it. I got it when it came out and I'm still listening to it.

All fans of Noir are freakin Awsome in my book. :heh: Rawk awn, buddy XD Noir owns. Actually, one of my suitemmates says he doesn't like it, but then agian, he's never liked disjointed, episodic series, so I'll give him that much. As for the OSTs, I was addicted to both of them for eons. If nothing else, I'll watch anything by BeeTrain for music alone. :heh:

[Trax]

Madlax' OST gives Noir's a run for its money, but ofcourse that's also from BeeTrain. I like em both. Both series too, for that matter. :)

[Fellini 8.5]

Actually for me its Chobits and Noir are tied.

:twitch:

Personally, regarding the time I spent watching a Chobits episode; well, let's just say I want that half-hour of my life back...

.
.
.

Just kidding! :) Everybody likes different things for good, valid reasons.

But... but... Chobits?? :twitch:

(okay, I'll stop teasing now!)

Regarding Yuki Kajiura's music, I watched a couple of episodes of My Hime, and while you could tell it was her stuff, it just doesn't have anywhere the impact that you get out of the Noir/.hack/Madlax soundtracks. I read in the Noir DVD inserts that Mashimo uses her music tracks as unique characters in and of themselves. I've noticed in his older stuff he'd been experimenting with that back then, as well. That's why it's always so in-your-face. In My Hime, it's just, well, soundtrack. Background.

[MartAnimE]

He, he, he... I've just made my first "induced to watch noir" victim :naughty: It's this guy I've just met... We're talking about our artistic interests in a class and I happen to mention animation as an interest... I've noticed he said something along those lines... he's not really into anime but he got curious and I've tried to explain the basics of it all in, like 1 hour... before he knew it I had convinced him to watch noir as the best thing ever made in terms of anime in my opinion. I lend him noir dvd 1 and all the OSTs (he got a little :twitch: that I was carriyng all that stuff with me... yes I was planning it all along, just in case :heh: )and now I'm expecting his feedback on Monday... :D

[Mashimaro]

Great series, good music and cute girls. The story is..not that bad, could be better. Chloe all time fav!

[Ambience Blue]

He, he, he... I've just made my first "induced to watch noir" victim :naughty: It's this guy I've just met... We're talking about our artistic interests in a class and I happen to mention animation as an interest... I've noticed he said something along those lines... he's not really into anime but he got curious and I've tried to explain the basics of it all in, like 1 hour... before he knew it I had convinced him to watch noir as the best thing ever made in terms of anime in my opinion. I lend him noir dvd 1 and all the OSTs (he got a little :twitch: that I was carriyng all that stuff with me... yes I was planning it all along, just in case :heh: )and now I'm expecting his feedback on Monday... :D Well, I hope it's a success. It's quite the fantastic show, and in terms of anime, definitely a must-watch. I don't know if it's something that would appeal instantly to someone who doesn't have much previous experience (for those ppl, I always recommend Cowboy Bebop), all the same, it has a definitively "un-anime" quality that makes it rather attractive, I guess.

[Shigan]

Are you sure? Noir can be a bit... "heavy" if you've actually never have watched anime before, especally around the first ten episodes (which doesn't make them bad in any way, ep6 is... *bawls*). I usually recommend Princess Mononoke as a first try, since it appeals to a lot of people, not only as animation but also as a movie.

Here's a feeble attempt to keep this thread going:

Which was your absolute favorite episode and *why*? (double eps can count as one)

[MartAnimE]

it has a definitively "un-anime" quality that makes it rather attractive, I guess.

Exactly, if I wanna impress someone with an anime I have to show something that could be generally considered high quality, not just high quality for an animation... Besides, if you wanna give a good first impression don't go showing any cliched fanserviced silly comical anime (not that's anything wrong with that, but people unfamiliar with this might just find it stupid :heh: )

Are you sure? Noir can be a bit... "heavy" if you've actually never have watched anime before, especally around the first ten episodes (which doesn't make them bad in any way, ep6 is... *bawls*). I usually recommend Princess Mononoke as a first try, since it appeals to a lot of people, not only as animation but also as a movie.

The guy have seen some anime before but he kinda only watch what passes on tv here in Portugal... anyway, he was the one who asked me about it so I guess he kinda apreciates the style in general and wants to see more (and better) of it... and I just tought noir had it all (story, music, looks...) :D

Which was your absolute favorite episode and *why*? (double eps can count as one)

That's a tough one :heh: let's see... hah... I really can't choose :heh: episode 1 was just so perfect (especially the first part before the comercial break) everything was so well cordinated (talk, music, dramatic silences, action, art) this fell of mistery and drama that kept me close to the screen, I was stunned, I had never seen anything so... perfect! :) I had to see it several times before downloading episode 2 to make sure it was real :heh:
Actually I could write in detail what I liked about every episode, there's always something, I have no least favourite episode nor anything I could consider a filler :p I really liked episode 6's "Prince Myshkin pops his head out of a paper bag" moment. Episode 11 (Mad tea Party), Episode 13 (the end, it's so beautifully sad)... I'll stop for now since I can't realy decide :heh: I guess I would have to consider episode 1 my "more watched" episode...

[Mashimaro]

The chloe based episode. She is my absoloute favorite character.

[Ambience Blue]

Here's a feeble attempt to keep this thread going:

Which was your absolute favorite episode and *why*? (double eps can count as one) Every one. I can honestly say that I didn't have an episode I didn't like. Tho the action got a little cliche after a while, every episode built on the next.. First the duo own up French political opposition parties, then Middle Eastern terrorists, and the Intoccable (and the Cosa Nostra- dam#!). When things don't seem like they can get any bigger, they blast away a militia, bury the Triads, and leave worldwide political agents quivering in their boots. To finish off the series, they go to the very root of it all with Les Soldats. If that isn't epic, I don't know what is... Noir just does such an amazing job in its genre as a thrilling mystery-drama-action series that one can't possibly ask for more. IMO, Madlax tried to follow up on that legacy, but couldn't really keep up (not that I should know much, since I stopped watching by episode 20.)

[Fellini 8.5]

IMO, Madlax tried to follow up on that legacy, but couldn't really keep up (not that I should know much, since I stopped watching by episode 20.)
Ooh, you stopped one short of the show taking a dramatic twist... :) Give it another chance when the DVDs come out; I bet a more consistent translation and a better picture/sound quality will open it up a little.

With Noir, I can't really name a favorite episode either. Nor can I name a least-favorite episode. That's part of why I'm so fascinated with it. It works even better in a home theater environment, with everything taking up your field of vision, and the subwoofer thumping with every Walther report. :)

I lend him noir dvd 1 and all the OSTs (he got a little :twitch: that I was carriyng all that stuff with me... yes I was planning it all along, just in case :heh: )
While I've done my part evangelizing the show and getting my friends hooked on it, I don't think I've resorted to actually carrying it around with me... So a bit of :twitch: is well deserved, I think! (teasing... ;) )

...and it does make a very good crossover for those who don't really watch anime, but aren't averse to it -- after all, I'm here now, aren't I? I went from "maybe watches a Miyazaki film now and then" to "combs through forums and fansub lists looking for scraps of anything that might be good" obsessive Bee-Train fan in a mere 6 months. All thanks to Noir. :)

[Shigan]

Aaah of course, I didn't think of the continuosity (?) of this particular serie, my bad. ^^;

Noir has a couple of astonishing moments where BeeTrain proves themselves the dramaturgical geniuses they are, if working under a good producer/director (since I'm not that sure about Avenger). Maybe favorite moment/s would have been a better question.

As for me, yeah, episode 6 was a breaker... With Kirika standing over Nazerev's bed in the end, first watching and then aiming the gun at him. There's a beautiful poetic justice in this scene. A pair of sinners like they know they are, one at the end of is life soon to be dealt by the other, one looking in the face of someone who might not entirely be so different from herself, ultimate knowing that they may be heading the same way. And lastly, Kirika placing back the photo beside the bed, somehow, I got the feeling of that it was also here Mireille's true respect for Kirika began.

Three sinners, one in his death, one in deepened sin and one gaining respect for another. And all the three of them, maybe reaching just a little more of understanding in between. Stunning.

Ep21... Mireille leaving Kirika standing in the cementry, failing to fullfil their promise. Probably the cruelest scene in the whole anime. Mireille in her emotional shaken state, making the fatal mistake of abandoning Kirika, leaving her to believe that she truly have lost everything, therefor more or less instinctively returning to the manor and straight into Altena's plans.

Ep25...Chloe's explosive reaction due to pented up jealousy and rage over what she believes is betrayal. What more is there to say?

Multi Eps...Actually, the flashback that made us tear out our hair in the start. ^^ Odette Bouquette's last words, merely a mother's last desperate attempt to ensure her daughter's safety. Ironically to maybe what she could have hoped for then, they really did save her daughter, as also brought Kirika back from the brink.

And of course, a lot lot more...

[Fellini 8.5]

Noir has a couple of astonishing moments where BeeTrain proves themselves the dramaturgical geniuses they are, if working under a good producer/director (since I'm not that sure about Avenger).
Same director... Koichi Mashimo. Bee Train is his company :) Different scriptwriter, though.

Avenger has been growing on me. Rewatching helps a lot. I'm hoping an "official translation" clears up some of the ambiguity from the fansubs.

Back to Noir -- yes, absolutely the "moments" really make it. Plus the way they build on each other. One "moment" I thought about recently:
In the "Remaining Flower" episode; Mireille is walking across the street. Slowly. Slower than everyone else. So slow that the light changes before she finishes crossing, and all the cars honk at her.

Well, that didn't really spoil anything, but, well, y'know...

[MartAnimE]

Have you noticed some of the tracks on OST 2 didn't really appear on the series, I'm talking specifically about track 8 (Maze) It's funny that they decided to include it since they left some really nice pieces out, like the "Intocabille Theme" or that music played at the "Mad Tea Party". Anyway, I don't know why, but I always tought that "Maze" was very much in the mood of the second half of the series, I suppose, by the lyrics, that it talks about the relationship between the noir candidates, it also has this medieval feeling to it that relates this song to the conceipt of "noir" from "les soldats" of the old times.

[Shigan]

But then, the intocabille song wasn't all that long, say 30 secs? Maybe it would have felt choppy to include that as a track.

Bah, with the divinity of Canta per Me, I'm very veeeeeeeeery satisfied. ^^

[MartAnimE]

And there's also the karaoke version of "Lullaby", which was so wonderfully used on episode 12 (Chloe's episode) on that scene when she kills that german guy and leaves an alpin flower as a symbol of the general's revenge... that scene was so dramatically beautiful, and mostly because of the background music... and the track is also not included anywhere... :(
And, yeah, "Canta per Me" is just sublime! :D One of the first things that made me realize how good this anime was gonna be when I was watching the first episode for the first time...

[MartAnimE]

I've just noticed something...

Episode 6: Kirika was talking in russian to the cat when she asked his name... otherwise, Nazarov wouldn't be able to understand her question and answer it... isn't it odd? I mean, not many sane people use to speak to themselves aloud like that, not to mention she was talking to a cat, strangely enough as it is, she was speaking in a language that is not her natural one, so she must have thought that the cat, being in Russia, was indeed only able to understand her if she talked in russian... :twitch:
Do you think this was an intentional convinient language mistake or would Kirika really talk russian when addressing to a russian cat...? :eyebrow:
I like the second hipotesis better... it sounds cutter :heh:

[Ambience Blue]

Canta per Me = droolworthy. I haven't heard any anime OST tracks as incredibly atmospheric or memorable as CPM ot its derivatives.

...and it does make a very good crossover for those who don't really watch anime, but aren't averse to it -- after all, I'm here now, aren't I? I went from "maybe watches a Miyazaki film now and then" to "combs through forums and fansub lists looking for scraps of anything that might be good" obsessive Bee-Train fan in a mere 6 months. All thanks to Noir. Absolutely. I was also one of those casual Miyazaki-ers for a while. In fact, I saw anime several times in the past and didn't like it. For me, I think the turning point was FMP, then Noir, because I'd read about it in a Newtype magazine I had somehow randomly stumbled across before I watched anime seriously. The article had made such an impact on me all those years ago, I suppose that's my start. :heh:

[Shigan]

*waves*

Me too, kinda. The cursed serie re-directed 70% of my writing interest into fanfiction... *sigh* -_-

[Fellini 8.5]

*waves*

Me too, kinda. The cursed serie re-directed 70% of my writing interest into fanfiction... *sigh* -_-

While I haven't gone that far, I have been thinking about taking up drawing again... It's been a while...

"*sigh*" indeed. :)

[guest]

Can't believe that I still read this thread once a while. I found this on some other forum and thought people here might be interested. It's a really LONG thread but I kinda see some very interesting posts there. Take a look if you don't mind long discussion:
http://www.shoujoai.com/forum/topic_show.pl?pid=114390;hlm=subject;hl=Noir#11439 0

[justice_man]

Are you sure? Noir can be a bit... "heavy" if you've actually never have watched anime before, especally around the first ten episodes (which doesn't make them bad in any way, ep6 is... *bawls*)

Not true... (in my case anyway)
Noir was the first anime I saw and immidiatly got hooked on it... So did a friend of mine it showed it to... And I haven't found another anime since that could rival it...
Sure there's alot of great animes out there... but Noir is the only one I've rewatched 4 times and still think of seeing again...

[Fellini 8.5]

but Noir is the only one I've rewatched 4 times and still think of seeing again...

Heh. I'm up to 11.

Since May. :)

(would have been more, but Madlax distracted me for a while...)

It's not the first anime I ever saw, but I never really bothered with it before this.

[Shigan]

Lol, I've re-seen the last 9 eps or so least 9 times. 11, wow. o_o

[JoeStoppable]

Hmm I dont know if anyone asked bout this before but i'm gonna ask again anywayz. I heard on another forum about Noir season 2.

I had given up all hope on waiting for Noir season 2. But this has given me new found hope.

On the other anime forum they said at this years anime expo the director and creator of Noir will be there releasing information on a supposed Noir season 2. Anyone have any info on this or know if its true.

Thanks for the help

[Jessiepuff]

Well, this is the only place I found suitable enough to post this, so sorry if this isn't where it belongs. XD;;;

I lost my Noir 2 and 4 dvd cases when I went to Spain, and thank gosh I still have the discs! If there is anybody who has a scanner and is willing to scan the covers for me and send over the fully scanned images in their original sizes (the bigger the better), I'd appreciate it soooo much! Not looking for the thinpack cases.. ^^;;

I scanned my case 5 so that you guys can see what I need...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/Nukumori/cover.jpg
Thank you so much, guys. ^.^

[rooboy]

I would, but unfortunately I only have the thinpak. If no one can provide you with the full size ones, PM me and I'll send you the thinpak and you can try cutting it into two pieces to get it to fit.

[guest]

I would, but unfortunately I only have the thinpak. If no one can provide you with the full size ones, PM me and I'll send you the thinpak and you can try cutting it into two pieces to get it to fit.
How did you get the thinpack? How do you do search on it? I know companies do release thinpack but I don't know how to look for it. It also applies for all anime, not just noir. Thank you.

[rooboy]

How did you get the thinpack? How do you do search on it? I know companies do release thinpack but I don't know how to look for it. It also applies for all anime, not just noir. Thank you.
Well, I bought it (not really sure what the context of the first question is). I believe the actual name is "Noir Complete Collection". (Here's a link to purchase the Noir one: http://dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=660781 (DVD Pacific)). Usually if it's a legitimate R1 release and it's a complete collection from ADV or Geneon, that means it's a thinpack. If you're looking on Ebay, the easiest way to tell is to look up the R1 release on DVD Pacific and compare it to the picture shown. You should also look at the number of discs, thinpacks usually have the same number of discs as if you had bought them separately (for instance, Noir was on 7 discs and the thinpack also has 7 discs). Newer ADV releases use fewer discs, but usually only one or two fewer.

Geneon's thinpacks are actually twice as thin, as they put two discs in each case. :)

[stretch87]

i've never been so happy as i was when i finally finished this series. every 20 minute episode felt like an eterity of torture. i thought i would have liked it beause girls with guns is one of my favourite genres, but this just sucked

first of all, they played that annoying melody at least once every episode. it started to drive me crazy after hearing it 30+ times. it wasn't even an moving melody like the one from elfen lied.

secondly, i've never seen so many bloodless one shot kills since the days of 007 for nintendo 64. seriously, what the hell was with that! every one of those generic thugs were killed in a singel shot, and they were never shot in the head even once.

every firefight so unbelievable predictable it was painful to watch

if you like girls with guns or action anime in general, do yourself a favoure by skipping this title and moving on the something worthwhile like Gunslinger Girl

and please don't try to argue that noir is a "deep", meningful anime, because clearly it's no deeper than the puddle of rain water on my driveway

[Potatochobit]

normally that type of violent shows are not my cup of tea, but i wouldnt say it was that bad.

the first 3 discs did indeed keep you intrigued with alot of suspense and plot development. the killing was numerous but none graphic at all. its true that the middle to end didnt arrive at an absolute truth that most viewers thought would be at the goal, but the ending was fitting for the series. i would have liked the plot with millefeu's childhood friend to have been expanded on more than just some random challenge between the two. but then it was never meant to be a deep anime to start with.

you can find the thin pack at most bestbuy stores, ebay, or rightstuf.com its pretty cheap i think

[Varis]

I really enjoyed that series, a 2nd season would be more the welcome.

If they keep the watch and flashback out if it, it will be perfect :)

Give us more Mireille vs Kirika! I thought Mireille would get taken down but she held her own.

[Haruhara]

hmm, its been a while since i saw this series, one of my old favourites.

I can't remember much about the plot, the whole Grande Retour thing was odd. What I liked the most was the development of the relationships between the girls, which blew me away when it reached its climax.

My favourite character was Chloe, because she went from throwing knives in people's faces to having stories read to her in bed. How cute.

[Matrim]

iand please don't try to argue that noir is a "deep", meningful anime, because clearly it's no deeper than the puddle of rain water on my driveway

You sure told us, didn't you?:heh:
Ever heard that people have different tastes and what is deep and meaningful for one might not be for someone else?:) I happen to think that Noir is deep and meaningful but it's rather pointless to argue about that since no one is likely to convince the other. At least I don't claim my opinion is the only one that is valid, though.

Just a question - why did you watch it to the end if every episode was like a torture?

I really enjoyed that series, a 2nd season would be more the welcome. If they keep the watch and flashback out if it, it will be perfect

Second season? No thanks. The ending is perfect as it is, IMO. And what will be the point of more flashbacks with the watch when we already know the story of Mireille's family?

[stretch87]

Just a question - why did you watch it to the end if every episode was like a torture?


that's a pretty good question, and here is your answer. once i get a few episodes into a series i like to finish it. if i don't watch the entire series and move it to my "comleted list" i may accidentally pick it up again in the future, after forgetting how horrible it truely is to me.

and unless the animation itself is extremely bad i'll watch at least five episodes of a new series before i judge it, because you can never tell what an anime is truely like just by the first couple of episodes. that would be like quitting a book after only reading the first chapter. now going back to what i said earlier, after a few episodes 'm past the point of no return and i have no choice but the finish the series.

i think noir would have actually been a lot better as a 13 episode series. it just became way to repetitive for me to enjoy towards the ending. watching it all in rapid succession probably didn't help with that though...

[rooboy]

secondly, i've never seen so many bloodless one shot kills since the days of 007 for nintendo 64. seriously, what the hell was with that! every one of those generic thugs were killed in a singel shot, and they were never shot in the head even once. Well, not that this really seems to matter to you one way or the other; however, the reason Noir shows no blood and little in the way of realistic violence is because it was shown on Tokyo TV, a channel that wouldn't allow much blood.
and please don't try to argue that noir is a "deep", meningful anime, because clearly it's no deeper than the puddle of rain water on my drivewayWell, I'm unsure what the purpose of this is one way or the other. Noir doesn't belong to a genre that is renowned for having "deep" meAningful shows in it. Just from the two examples you gave (Elfen Lied and Gunslinger Girls), you've so far managed to list three shows that have little in the way of depth at all.
For the record, I actually enjoyed Gunslinger Girls and Noir a lot. Elfen Lied, not so much, but it's okay. But I really don't find any of them particularly original or meaningful.
And, (just for the record), holy post resurrection! You do realize you're responding to people who last posted about the content of this show on 2004-12-12, don't you?

[Shinigami-san]

The other replies are similar to what my friend thought with the two gunshots at the end. My reasoning that they werent killed was that the two shots at the end were just for effect because guns were a common theme throughout the show. The mafia guys at the end also didnt like Artena because she was manipulating them so I think they let Kirika and Mirelle escape.
I agree with you completely about this, I think it was just because of the theme of the anime.

[Madlax26]

i'm not sure where to post this, its about the soundtrack to noir specifically blanc dans noir you see i just purchased it and i wanted to ask how can i use the second smaller disc.
thank you.

[lommm]

isn't it just a minicd? you have to play it in a cd player that the disc clip onto like in some cd-rom drives

[ShinNoNoir]

@madlax26 : check out this link, there's some good info in the Compatibility section
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_CD

I'm a fan of this show, i guess my username and sig are proof enough.. :D
I do a pilgrimage once a year watching it, just good stuff, i love my boxset!

[Madlax26]

Thanks ShinNoNoir btw Cool User Name.

[lommm]

that boxed set is the best! 5.1 audio in english and japanese! i have a lot of speakers, so the bullets really sound like they're flying around the room!

[Ambience Blue]

and please don't try to argue that noir is a "deep", meningful anime, because clearly it's no deeper than the puddle of rain water on my driveway Any elaboration at all? We'd need supporting arguments to make any sort of judgement ^^

Personally, I enjoyed it immensely (one of my favorite series), but in order to enjoy it, you can't just assume that fancy explosions and brain splattering on a Elfen lied level are the only aspects to a good action film. For artistic purposes, it's often better to not have torrents of body fluid exploding from individuals-- I for one would prefer not to have to wonder if characters are actually humans or simply pressurized sacks of blood. In addition, the message is clear: the hundreds of mindless individuals the duo kill on their way up are merely small fry. Blood is symbolic, reserved for the important characters to signify their humanity in the face of a faceless, hostile world.

In addition, perhaps you've missed the "deeper" message you dispute. You don't need to be hit in the face with a sobbing, heartrending cataclysm of an ending to know that there's a deeper meaning behind a story. In fact, Noir's messages were more subtle, on an episode to episode basis. Take Season of Hell or the Lost Kitten. Kitten examines an interpretation of justice, of forgiveness and retribution. Death, delivered by agents of higher powers, often only make sense when viewed from a greater perspective. Season sheds further light on the alienation of our protagonists-- they are the messengers of death, regardless of their intentions, and are alienated from the rest of the plane.

Lastly, the movie was never intended to be a shoot-em-up action show like Najica or Trigun. Action is never exaggerated, the characters never become distorted (nope, not a single oversize sweatdrop or chibi explosion); explosions are believeable, and more is left to the viewers imagination than is literally explained. If you thought from the box that you'd be in for two cute girls kicking bad guy ass on your screen, your money was poorly spent ;d

[guest]

Is this new noir dvd (http://www.jvcmusic.co.jp/m-serve/tv/noir/collectorsbox/index.html)? What is it? They look different. I assure you that I got this from the company website who made noir so it is not some pirate stuff. If anyone who can read Japanese care to share some info, that would be great.

[LionsMane]

I really loved watching Noir; it was one of my first anime and I remember watching the promo disc in the Newtype magazine. The first episode dragged me into it. Loved every bit of it.

[Wosho128]

I'm watching Noir for the 6th time.

I know the series is unrealistic and over-the-top.

The atmosphere, characters and music thrill me every time I watch it though.

The scenery makes me want to go visit parts of Europe. ): "Monster" did the same thing to me.

[cdtm]

Noir: The Complete Collection, looks like an official release, but there's also something I keep seeing called Noir Perfect Collection, with the entire series on three DVD's. I bought the latter, and ended up with a bootleg... So, I take it all "perfect collections" from this series are bootlegs?

What's the difference between Perfect and Complete collections, anyways?

And, any recommendations on good buying locations? I'm willing to shell out top dollar, but I'm also kind of cheap (Feh, why mince words? :D ), so if there's a way to get legal copies for as cheap as possible, I'd greatly appreciate any leads.

Thanks.

[xris]

We do have a "Where do I buy..." Thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=442) in the Licensed forum.

"Perfect" and "Complete" collections are just marketing terms and may well vary depending on the company producing the DVDs. Try DVDPacific, Noir: The Complete Collection (http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=660781)

If you want to discuss Noir (or ask about the different releases), I woud suggest you post in the Noir thread, which is located in the Licensed forum, just search for it.

[Zu Ra]

I watched Noir a year back and what I have to say is the main protagnists dont seem like hardcore assasins IMHO . I have a mindset of comparing an assasin to the Code Name 47 from the game Hitman . For that reason I found Noir a bit dissapointing

[Zu Ra]

I just got my hands on Noir Ost I could belive after I heard it the swan song of Noir and no I am not talking about Melodie I am talking about Canta Per Me is also in Japanese . The Japanese version is really soothing . As both languages are alien to me I couldnt tell much of a diffrence but simply love those violin peices in the Japanese one . Also note Japanse version appears in Noir Blanc CD

[Ronin Aquila]

Epic story, ferocious action that would make John Woo proud and majestic music aside, my favourite thing about Noir can be summed up as thus:

"Aww, Kirika-Chan!! There there sweetie, don't cry, cos you're so cute and oh so very huggable. Uh, Mirelle, can I take her home with me? I want a baby sister just like her." ;) :p

[animeffs13240]

I bought Noir the complete collection not too long ago (gotta be about a year ago) I have actually never heard of Noir, but I saw the collection for sale at best buy for 50 bucks so I decided to buy it (50 bucks for seven disc there was no way I was going to pass up a deal like this:D )
Anyways back to the point, I noticed there was a bit of argueing over the the in-depth of the storyline, so here is what I think. I think the story of Noir is fantastic, sure I was expecting an action anime, but the anime did make you think think a little bit (one of the reasons why I watch anime is that some anime makes you think about what's going on, who are they, etc.) There were a lot of questions about what's going on, so on and so on. The story was meaningful because questions about the past wanted me to watch some more so I won't be pondering my questions while lying in bed. I mean if you're looking for anime's that make you think very hard and leave questions even after finishing the series Noir is not the choice (Try Evangelion) But like most animes when they end reveal everything and answer all the questions. Noir did that, I enjoy the series very much because the storyline kept me guessing till the very end, the music was awesome (when the watch tune came on then the drum set started to go with it, it had a castlevania feel to it, veeery cool:cool: ) I do recommend it.

[Mich666]

Hi, I've just finished watching Noir and I have two questions now:
1) Who gave that identification card to Kirika and why she contacted Mireille in the beginning? Does she only pretend she lost her memory? And if not who and why erased it? From where or whom she was running in the beginning and why?
2) In ED we see this face but I can't find out who it is...
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9541/noircharacteray5.jpg

[Matrim]

Who gave that identification card to Kirika

Someone following Artena's orders, I believe, the goal was Kirika and Chloe to go different ways, so the three "saplings" can develop in different fashions.

why she contacted Mireille in the beginning?

Well, we see in episode one that Kirika knows Mireille is one the best assasins out there, I guess she needed someone really skillful in the ways of thje underword who didn't have amnesia to help her find who she was. Or maybe Artena orchestrated that meeting too, somehow, who knows...

Does she only pretend she lost her memory?

No, what makes you tihnk she does?

And if not who and why erased it?

I believe Artena is the answer again, I think she wanted to have Kirika - Mireille as an option for taking the orle of Noir in case Chloe-Kirika did not work out, the old Soldats tradition demanded Mireille to have some chance to become Noir, too, IIRC. If Kirika's memory was not erased, the pairing would have never worked out since Kirika killed Mireille's parents.

[Mich666]

Thank you for answers ;) I have a few comments though:



Who gave that identification card to Kirika
Someone following Artena's orders, I believe, the goal was Kirika and Chloe to go different ways, so the three "saplings" can develop in different fashions.
- ok, that sound reasonable. It seems Chloe took that watch in the past and then gave it to Kirika together with that ID card.

why she contacted Mireille in the beginning?
Well, we see in episode one that Kirika knows Mireille is one the best assasins out there, I guess she needed someone really skillful in the ways of thje underword who didn't have amnesia to help her find who she was. Or maybe Artena orchestrated that meeting too, somehow, who knows...
- That's kinda big coincidence I think. On the other hand - maybe Altena sent the e-mail? (but I am not sure, Kirika mentioned something about searching for Mireille)

Does she only pretend she lost her memory?
No, what makes you tihnk she does?
- Because she headed directly to Mireille - to the person she swore to protect (it was Mireille's mother wish). Maybe she didn't know everything from beginning but here were many occasions when Kirika wanted to tell that to Mireille.

And if not who and why erased it?
I believe Artena is the answer again, I think she wanted to have Kirika - Mireille as an option for taking the orle of Noir in case Chloe-Kirika did not work out, the old Soldats tradition demanded Mireille to have some chance to become Noir, too, IIRC. If Kirika's memory was not erased, the pairing would have never worked out since Kirika killed Mireille's parents.
- I agree with last sentence but don't forget that Mireille forgot her past intentionally. Or can it be that both girls knew it from beginning when they heard the melody? Why else would Mireille wanted so desperately to kill Kirika?
From my point of view it seems that Kirika was trained at Altena's place for some time when she was young and then she moved to Japan where she was going to school undercover and performing killings (she did remember going to high school). Then someone (it seems likely it was Chloe) erased her memory by gunshot and moved her to France. Or, she did find some clue of where Mireille is and moved there by herself.

That unknown person (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9541/noircharacteray5.jpg) who smiles in ED still confuses me though...

[Matrim]

That's kinda big coincidence I think.

Sure it is but without it there would be no series. ;) And as I said I believe Artena orchestrated things once again.

Because she headed directly to Mireille - to the person she swore to protect (it was Mireille's mother wish).

I don't think she actually swore to protect Mireille, at least not until the very last episodes when she remembered Mireille's mother's last words. And as we see in episode 21, if Kirika had any memory of killing Mireille's parents she would feel way too guilty to even come close to her, let alone live with her.

Why else would Mireille wanted so desperately to kill Kirika?

That was Mireille playing tough out of necessity. She likes to keep cool facade of an emotionless assassin, plus Kirika knew about her illegal activities, the idea was that after Mireille had no more use of her, obviously she would want the witness to disappear. As the cliche goes - "Nothing personal, just business".:)

[Zu Ra]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3549/bewi5.jpg http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1092/41qepmkylflss500op7.jpg

[Katsu Koneko]

X3 I love this series. I own every single DVD~ My first gun anime if I remember correctly. :D

Mirielle/Kirika FTW! -shot-

[kamikazex]

indeed this anime is badass!! also my first gun/anime. just rewatched it since it was so awesome

[mg1942]

This is what got me back to anime!!!

It's also the first anime I watched in high definition! (INHD channel)

[Captain Yoruichi]

The two gunshots at the end of the series were not Mireille and Kirika. Kirika's gun, if you recall, fell in the lava pit when she pushed Altena in. I think the gunshots at the end were merely symbolic.

NOIR is my favorite anime series. ^_^

[rainnydaiis]

I'm quite surprised that this thread got bumped up. I'm actually a huge fan of Noir too since it was probably one of my first Assassin/Gun type anime. My favorite scene has to be in the casino where they turn off all the lights. That gun fight was just so interesting with the popcorn

[germanturkey]

Salva Nos. many many years later, this song still brings back great memories. like the time Kirika shot those guys through a bullet hole in the wall..

[Fellini 8.5]

This is what got me back to anime!!!

It's also the first anime I watched in high definition! (INHD channel)

Hey, that used to be my line! ;)

When the bluray finally comes out, I can quadruple-dip and buy it all over again. Hooray!

(the thinpak makes a great gift)

[KimmyChan]

I've had my eye on this series for a while now :)

I'm always drawn to series that have really strong main female leads such as this :)

[X207]

i liked this anime but i did miss chloe BC she couldnt fit in with the 3. she was a rather interesting character.

[KimmyChan]

The complete DVD box set of this series has a really cool metal dog tag chain with it :D

[Zwei]

This anime definatly wasn't one of the best and there is a few reasons for that.

1. No strategy by the main characters, just forward shooting and the bullets always misses them, they never get hit even though they don't dodge and they always hit.

2. They don't possess any particular skills, I don't know why they are called top.1 Assasins as they get the chance to get killed countless times in the episodes but their enemes never fire when they get them. o.O

3. The main character Kirika sucked. An immature emotionless uninteresting doll.

4. For some reason the ending sucked as well, why do they still live after killing countless people without regret?

[4Tran]

This anime definatly wasn't one of the best and there is a few reasons for that.

1. No strategy by the main characters, just forward shooting and the bullets always misses them, they never get hit even though they don't dodge and they always hit.

2. They don't possess any particular skills, I don't know why they are called top.1 Assasins as they get the chance to get killed countless times in the episodes but their enemes never fire when they get them. o.O
The thing that needs to be borne in mind is that Noir plays to different aesthetics than many shows do, and that the realism of the combat is the furthest thing from the creators' goals. In fact, it is purposefully stylized as a way for framing the character actions apart. This is obviously not to everyone's tastes, but there really is a method to the madness.

3. The main character Kirika sucked. An immature emotionless uninteresting doll.
That isn't true at all. While it's legitimate to not like her character and to find her uninteresting, it's a different matter altogether to claim that she's emotionless. Instead, Kirika is very emotionally restrained (and perhaps emotionally scarred), and part of the purpose of the show is to portray her growth from being emotional from everyone, to her growing attachment to Chloe and especially Mireille.

[Duo Himura]

In my opinion, Noir is one of those series that's hard to classify as unequivocally good or bad. This is because some of the series' faults can actually make watching it more enjoyable. Noir is a show that takes itself utterly seriously, but if you stop and think about it, a lot of what happens is actually fairly ridiculous. So in a way, when the show works, it works, and when it -doesn't- work, it still works, just... in an unintentionally funny kind of way.

Case in point:
Kirika runs off by herself after one of the various issues that spring up between her and Mireille. Cue scenes of them both being alone... as a MONTAGE! It's just so absurdly unsubtle that, even if you do think that it's terrible direction, you can still enjoy because then it just comes off as amazingly campy. There's a lot like that in Noir, if your mind is twisted enough (don't get me started on "you must undergo a process to deepen your bond." I seriously broke down and laughed during the next scene.)

Another aspect that's sort of like this with the series is that very little of what the Big Bads actually -want- is explained. We get to know what they want from the main characters, but not what their overall plan is. Perhaps it's deliberate (like the bloodless thing? I've heard both that it was intentional and that it was mandated by executive meddling). But it does bring down much hope of really sympathizing with Altena instead of viewing her as another crazy anime character with a chip on her shoulder from X traumatic event.

Fleri does raise another point--this show is delightfully amoral. In their defense, the Noir girls don't kill that many genuinely good people, but it does say something that the openly gay member of the main cast is the one who bites it, what with the main cast being made up of -assassins-. Though I always thought Kirika and Mireille were pretty obvious. But in any event, that last shot of Kirika and Mireille was a -great- moment. And, like most Bee Train anime, you're happier, and things make more sense, if you stop a shot/sequence or so before it actually ends (see .Hack//SIGN). I just wish they hadn't been playing Canta Per Me for the billionth time during that scene. Good song, but that end deserved something that hadn't been as done to death.

[KimmyChan]

The complete DVD box set of this series has a really cool metal dog tag chain with it :D

Here's what the box set looks like :) -

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/5398049/Noir-The-Complete-Boxset/Product.html

[mg1942]

I hope they remake this anime... for blu ray!

[Solafighter]

I hope they remake this anime... for blu ray!

That would be great.

But the chances are astronomic low, that this will ever happen. ;)

The DVD Box looks pretty interesting, though.

[KimmyChan]

I would buy it myself, but it's still a bit on the pricey side at the minute :(