View Full Version : Legend of Galactic Heroes
Rheinhard
2003-11-04, 01:09
Hey, with this nickname, I thought I'd kick off a thread for discussion of the greatest anime SF epic ever, Legend of the Galactic Heroes! (Now if only I could figure out how to set an appropriate avatar pic!)
Here's a list of links to resources on the series:
If you want to learn more about this show, the best English language web resource is http://www.logh.net
There is a subsection of the above page containing the LoGH pages that used to be maintained by "Ming" at Stony Brook, but which no longer exist there. I felt these were some of the nicest looking LoGH pages around, and had a great list of quick links. Check out http://www.logh.net/minglogh/LoGH.html
For info on the LoGH mailing list, the oldest and most clued-in community of LoGH fans on the net, check http://www.logh.net/loghlist/info.html
Also if you are interested in seeing an English language DVD release of this series, be sure to check out the AnimeOnDVD discussion at http://forums.animeondvd.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=82055&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Kempis Curious
2003-11-04, 02:08
Hey, with this nickname, I thought I'd kick off a thread for discussion of the greatest anime SF epic ever, Legend of the Galactic Heroes! (Now if only I could figure out how to set an appropriate avatar pic!)
What did you want to talk about for this anime? I got interested back in 199X with a VHS fan sub of the movie... anime was hard to get back then. :(
When I saw it I knew that it was probably a loooooooong running series... plus the song "Bolero" is now permanently associated in my mind with huge white spaceships. :)
I was thrilled when someone digitized the old 40 ep fansub and put it up here on animesuki. I seeded it for quite a while, but few people were interested in watching it. :( Maybe the VHS quality was too bad for people to want to stick with it. Has there been any change in someone fansubbing past ep 40?
-k
I've seen like 42 episodes and a short OVA about Reindhardt and Kircheise ('On Golden Wings' I think it was) on VHS years ago, then the digitized 40 episodes and the two movies...then someone did a sub using DVD source, and it was absolutely gorgeous. They only did that one episode though, to my knowledge.
This is an excellent series, and I'm suprised that it doesn't have a much more prominent place in the anime community, especially among those that like really character and plot heavy stories.
I really hope the english release works out, I have no clue how many signatures they've gotten on the official request list. I know several people that have signed it. Last I'd heard they were about halfway to the minimum signatures required for them to commit to a North American english release.
Rheinhard
2003-11-04, 23:50
I've seen like 42 episodes and a short OVA about Reindhardt and Kircheise ('On Golden Wings' I think it was) on VHS years ago, then the digitized 40 episodes and the two movies...then someone did a sub using DVD source, and it was absolutely gorgeous. They only did that one episode though, to my knowledge.
Yes, I too have only seen that one digisubbed episode. It would be nice to see the other episodes for which scripts exist done this way, might help further interest in the show.
This is an excellent series, and I'm suprised that it doesn't have a much more prominent place in the anime community, especially among those that like really character and plot heavy stories.
I quite agree -- it seems from some of the comments on the AnimeOnDVD thread that some of the newer fans got into it because they enjoyed Crest of the Stars and wanted to find more things like that.
I have maintained for many years, though, that the true audience for this series in the USA is not to be found so much among anime fans as it is among literary and serious science fiction fans (people who like the works of Isaac Asimov, and enjoyed Babylon 5 for example). This was why I made an effort to promote the show at the 2001 World Science Fiction Convention in Philadelphia. Of course, I was helped by the fact the Mr. Yukio Kikukawa, producer of the LoGH anime, was also in attendance because he is a part of the "Worldcon in Japan 2007" bid committee! Man, what a great bid party they threw! I think a lot of anime fans would have kicked themselves for not attending Worldcon, since among the committee members hosting their party was the producer of Tenchi Muyo!, the producer of Galactic Heroes, and more! And you could just hang and chat with them! At an anime con these people would have a GoH panel and then be shuffled off so the regular fans wouldn't have a chance to mingle with them.
144M_HYPERION
2003-11-05, 04:00
Honestly after watching this series ... it has changed my way of thinking about this world.
e.g. Yang's ideal and prospective about life
As far as I am concerned LoGH will always be my favorite series. The plot is just huge. The space battles were done very nicely.
The ending is just sad, because most of the characters die in the end. :sad:
I have finished the entire TV series and the OVA
and 3 of the sidestories ... (I think I still miss one or two of them)
The ending is just sad, because most of the characters die in the end. :sad:
thanks..for spoiling..alot :nono:
Honestly after watching this series ... it has changed my way of thinking about this world.
e.g. Yang's ideal and prospective about life
As far as I am concerned LoGH will always be my favorite series. The plot is just huge. The space battles were done very nicely.
The ending is just sad, because most of the characters die in the end. :sad:
I have finished the entire TV series and the OVA
and 3 of the sidestories ... (I think I still miss one or two of them)
Idiot use the freakin spoiler tags!! :frustrated:
144M_HYPERION
2003-11-05, 22:06
err ... sorry about it guys ...
Spoiler tag is now in place ...
Is that really a spoiler for LoGH ???
If you watch the OVA or a partial of the TV series ... you already know there is alot of death involved ...
A Fleet of 15,000 ships with at least 2 million troops going to battle for both side ... if there is no death then what is it that you expect?
Legend of Galactic heroes has on VHS that i have found up to ep 45 subed, and a few of the side story serries, and the 2 movies.
As for that DVD source subbing we at Lunar Anime are doing it. We have been going slow do to sound problems in ep 2 raw and our translator for the serries disapeared. :) We should be getting episode 2 out soon. :) As for the rest i cant say how long It will take it is a hard serries to translate. We do plan on getting all 110 ep done eventually. :)
Kempis Curious
2003-11-06, 17:04
We do plan on getting all 110 ep done eventually. :)
One small problem, how can I be da man when you da man?
:bow:
What's the feedback on this fansub compared to the rest of the shows that y'all do?
Also, does having a previous subtitled set help?
-k
curious
and our translator for the serries disapeared. :)
You, uh, seem kinda happy about that. :p
All kidding aside, though, it's really nice to know we'll be seeing more high quality rips in the future. It's a series I'm definitely keeping an eye on, even as I'm forced to download the others out of desperation.
We do have Anime Centrals scripts for the Logh. And yes they do help a lot. :) If it wasn't for those it would take a long time every episode. Logh has a lot of talking :)
As for my been happy that we lost the translator. I am a happy guy dont let things like that get me down. :)
Relentless
2003-11-07, 00:06
Here's one humble fan paying respects to the best and greatest anime series ever.
From the timeles theme of war and peace to the huge cast, the grandiose battles, the politics, the detailed characterization, the sense of history being molded by the individuals, and the sense of history repeating itself; the solid dialog, the sheer genius of the most gifted characters; the vast, vaaaast, vaaaaaaaaast scenarios; the interesting and often sharp ideas about government, democracy, loyalty, courage, pacifism, nation-building and character-building; the all-Classical soundtrack, to the thrill of knowing that war makes no exceptions and favorite characters may die any moment, even in the most ignoble way; I have never enjoyed a story so much.
The first movie, with thousands and thousands of ships engaged in gracile and lethal combat at the rythm of Bolero, is my most unforgettable anime memory.
One is also hoping that somebody picks the novels. I read a couple of chapters available a long ago, and the anime is very faithful. I think they would be a hit with science fiction fans.
Rheinhard
2003-11-12, 00:21
As for that DVD source subbing we at Lunar Anime are doing it.
That's great Kail! I have seen your episode 1 sub and was pleased to see such work on this series by a fine digisub group.
I assume all y'all who have been posting about your views on the show have also joined the LoGH mailing list? If not, get thee hence to the LoGH Info Center and sign up!
The first movie, with thousands and thousands of ships engaged in gracile and lethal combat at the rythm of Bolero, is my most unforgettable anime memory.
Too true... I know a few people who have become more interested in classical music as a result of this series. Lee Thompson, owner of the Info Center, once said to me that after watching Reinhard's fleet dock at Iserlohn from that movie, he wondered what the music was. When he found out he thought, "I just listened to Swan Lake... and liked it?!"
To close, I just have one question for you Kail -- how did you set such a perfect avatar pic? I tried to edit my profile to use my standard self-icon (the drawing of me in my LoGH Admiral uniform by Sachiko Kamimura after Anime Expo in the October 99 issue of Animage) but couldn't set the avatar to anything save the standard list...
Rheinhard
2003-11-12, 00:41
To close, I just have one question for you Kail -- how did you set such a perfect avatar pic? I tried to edit my profile to use my standard self-icon (the drawing of me in my LoGH Admiral uniform by Sachiko Kamimura after Anime Expo in the October 99 issue of Animage) but couldn't set the avatar to anything save the standard list...
Woops... never mind. :stupid:
"To close, I just have one question for you Kail -- how did you set such a perfect avatar pic? I tried to edit my profile to use my standard self-icon (the drawing of me in my LoGH Admiral uniform by Sachiko Kamimura after Anime Expo in the October 99 issue of Animage) but couldn't set the avatar to anything save the standard list..."
Hehe seems im a bit late to tell you how to do it. ;) My Avatar was drawen By a nice Logh fan. :) Thought it was perfact because im a Logh Obsessed person. :) It was also small enough that I didnt have to srink it much so was a perfact fit. :)
Legend of Galactic heroes has on VHS that i have found up to ep 45 subed, and a few of the side story serries, and the 2 movies.
As for that DVD source subbing we at Lunar Anime are doing it. We have been going slow do to sound problems in ep 2 raw and our translator for the serries disapeared. :) We should be getting episode 2 out soon. :) As for the rest i cant say how long It will take it is a hard serries to translate. We do plan on getting all 110 ep done eventually. :) really?? :love: hope that happens! :heh: the DVD sub was great
er... do the movies come before the tv series? or do they fit in after the tv series??
144M_HYPERION
2003-11-16, 04:14
the 1st movie: My conquest is the sea of stars is before the T.V. series that is The 4th Battle of Tiamat
the 2nd movie: The new war overture takes place during the beginning T.V. series. The Battle of Astate
Relentless
2003-11-17, 16:39
I believe the 1st movie is not based on the original novels, can anybody confirm? I read the first chapters of the first novel a long time ago, and AFAI remember, they covered the events in the second movie.
Is Golden Wings based on the novels?
"believe the 1st movie is not based on the original novels, can anybody confirm? I read the first chapters of the first novel a long time ago, and AFAI remember, they covered the events in the second movie."
If im remembering the first movie right it is basicly the same as the first cople episodes of the main serries. Where as the second movie covers what happened before the fist episode.
Relentless
2003-11-18, 00:29
If im remembering the first movie right it is basicly the same as the first cople episodes of the main serries. Where as the second movie covers what happened before the fist episode.
Don't quote me or anything, but I'm pretty sure the second movie was a retelling of the first four anime episodes from the 1st season, or maybe the other way around depending on which was animated first. They didn't recycle footage, but it was the same battle.
I'm rather interested, but it will cost something like $2000? That's a great deal, especially for a college-age schmuck with a part-time job like myself. How will it work? Will you pay in installments and receive discs intermittently, like you were subscribing to a magazine? And something mentioned that "further remastering and reanimating" (emphasis added) of the series was possible if they had enough support of this initial release. I'd be kinda irritated if a pretty, shiny version came out after I bought the original, unless a very generous trade-in deal existed.
Rheinhard
2003-11-18, 03:42
I believe the 1st movie is not based on the original novels, can anybody confirm? I read the first chapters of the first novel a long time ago, and AFAI remember, they covered the events in the second movie.
Is Golden Wings based on the novels?
... caution, some potential spoilers for the 2nd movie and first dozen episodes follow...
You are correct in that the first movie isn't based on the novels, but was an original story designed as a pilot concept. This explains my only problem with the movie, which became more apparent as I watched more of the series. At the end of the movie, when Yang tucks his ship in under the Brunhild, Reinhard exclaims "Attack! We can't sacrifice our victory for this ship or my life, Kircheis!" I later realized that that seems a bit inconsistent with Reinhard & Kircheis' larger goals, to overthrow the nobles and Goldenbaum dynasty and save his sister. He can't do that very well if he's all blowed up.
And Relentless your other observation about the 2nd movie is partially correct -- the 2nd movie recaps the Battle of Astarte in its latter half, which was also the subject of the first 2 episodes of the series (and some key plot points of subsequent episodes are summarized during the credits). However the first half of the movie gives a better background on staging the battle which helps understand a lot. It also gives the explanation of why Reinhard's name changed from "von Museal" to "von Lohengramm" between the first movie and the first episode. Plus it has one of the most emotionally powerful scenes I've ever seen in anime, the whole sequence where Lapp proposes to Jessica and then they and Yang go out dancing. The emotion and meaning is conveyed without any dialog, which I think is just a triumph of storytelling. And when Lapp and Jessica are in the cab, and he mutters "Yang...I'm sorry", and Jessica realizes he wasn't actually drunk at all... aw man. That scene alone made the movie worth it.
... end possible spoilers...
Not being able to read the original novels I don't know if Golden Wings is taken from there or not. I do however have all the manga, and the Golden Wings story did appear in manga form.
Oh, and Kail, I absolutely adore your little Mittermeyer/Reuental/Mecklinger animated gif to death!!! :love: Can I borrow it from time to time on other boards?
I'm rather interested, but it will cost something like $2000? That's a great deal, especially for a college-age schmuck with a part-time job like myself. How will it work? Will you pay in installments and receive discs intermittently, like you were subscribing to a magazine? And something mentioned that "further remastering and reanimating" (emphasis added) of the series was possible if they had enough support of this initial release. I'd be kinda irritated if a pretty, shiny version came out after I bought the original, unless a very generous trade-in deal existed.
Fronzel, I am in touch with someone with Wright Staff (who are working on the R1). They are well aware of the realities of the US market and I am quite certain people won't be expected to pony up $2000 up front. Until details are settled we can't be exactly sure of the release method though, so keep checking for more details. I can say you don't have to worry about a super-duper edition after you got this one. There has already been some substantial reanimation of some of the poorer episodes for the Japanese DVD, and any additional work on the R1 version will certainly happen before the final release.
144M_HYPERION
2003-11-18, 06:12
As I recall the novel starts in the beginning of the Battle of Astarte (TV-series and the 2nd movie, The new war overture)
Possible Spoilers ...
The thing that really hit me is the death of Lapps. (I think the movie version is better than the TV-series version) Honestly, most of the Admirals in FPA are sort of useless. (With the exception of Alexander Buccock, Ulanfu, Borodin and Yang). The Battle of Astarte is a good example of my claim.
I love the classical music from the 2nd movie (e.g. Schuman 4th Symphony, Beethoven 7th Symphony) :)
"Oh, and Kail, I absolutely adore your little Mittermeyer/Reuental/Mecklinger animated gif to death!!! Can I borrow it from time to time on other boards?"
Sure i dont mind. :) If ya want the link to were i have it online jsut ask. :)
I myself havn't gotten the DVD's because of that $2000 doller price. :( Also are they acually making the R1 DVD's or are they still taking signitures?
Ooo LOGH is one of the best series I have ever seen. It is so brilliant. I first got into the series reading the first three comic books (I can't get my hand on the last few sadly). Kircheis and Reinhard were both so cool in book 1 and 3, I don't really know what to think when I heard that they are both meant to die.
It's too bad LOGH is so freaking long. I will never be able to see the whole thing. *sigh*
Rheinhard
2003-11-18, 23:49
Also are they acually making the R1 DVD's or are they still taking signitures?
I believe they are still collecting signatures at this stage, but they are doing surprisingly well IMO. I think they are well past the halfway mark, possibly 3/4 by now. Much as I love the show I didn't think there would be that much interest among mainstream anime fans. Now if we could get word out to more American SF fans (like people who read Asimov or watched Babylon 5) I think we'd develop a real fan following for LoGH in the USA...
Babylon 5!
Heh, heh.
:innocent:
Sorry, you're quite right to emphasize it. It certainly pretty much sold me on LOGH. Someone should try trolling B5 fan places for support.
"I believe they are still collecting signatures at this stage, but they are doing surprisingly well IMO. I think they are well past the halfway mark, possibly 3/4 by now. Much as I love the show I didn't think there would be that much interest among mainstream anime fans. Now if we could get word out to more American SF fans (like people who read Asimov or watched Babylon 5) I think we'd develop a real fan following for LoGH in the USA..."
I agree any Babylon 5 fan would love it. If they did market it to the SF fans they would probly do better than doing it to the anime fans.
hehe reminds me i gatta finish Crusade tonight so i can start watching B5 serries agian. :)
I just finished through episode 47. :b
Anything you can do to satisfy my fix is most appreciated. ;)
Rheinhard
2004-01-12, 21:45
I just noticed that Central Anime has put up torrents for their new digisubs of the early episodes of Galactic Heroes through episode 4! Hurrah! If you haven't yet checked out this series, this is a good chance to do so, since previously for the most part what was available were rips from older fansubs off VHS tape.
Episodes 3-4 are where the real meat of the story of this series begins, IMO... we learn more of the background politics on both sides of the war and a bit more of the "secret origins" of our main characters.
(On a side note, episode 4 is especially important because it lets y'all see the basis of my costume! :D I still think the Imperial dress uniform is simply the most splendid outfit in all of anime!)
I'm also unsure of if Golden Wings is based on a novel (the events in it are, IIRC, spread out over several of the novels in flashback), but there IS a manga volume just for it. Also, while the first side series is based on novels, the second isn't (although Tanaka says he's going to write two more LoGH novels). I've got both Gaiden series on tape (raw), but have only sat through a substantial amount of the second one, which I found to be a bit dry...Yang spends 14 episodes investigating a murder or something.
As for the substantial DVD reanimation...it's OK in some parts (a few of the designs/art bits were really fugly in the original), but there's some aspects (the crappy CG panning shots, and the insane amount of blood added) that are real drawbacks. It would be nice to have alternative angles for both on the R1 discs, but I don't see that happening...
Ah well, guess I'll just have to hang on to my (pretty and in one case autographed) laserdiscs.
Just finished downloading all of the Central Anime fansubs, they're really nice. The video quality is good. The encoding breaks apart in a couple of spots, but nothing serious and it's still incredible when compared to the VHS rips we've been watching (again and again and again).
I'm very impressed that they did everything right with the subtitles themselves. They are yellow with a black border around the letters, and they're a decent size. I can still read them from across the room and they're never lost in the visuals. Beautiful work, other fansubbers could learn from this example (tiny white or yellow fansubs are BAD! BAD, BAD, BAD!).
Still, here's hoping the DVD set becomes a reality.
I'm very impressed that they did everything right with the subtitles themselves. They are yellow with a black border around the letters, and they're a decent size. I can still read them from across the room and they're never lost in the visuals. Beautiful work, other fansubbers could learn from this example (tiny white or yellow fansubs are BAD! BAD, BAD, BAD!).
I *love* the JACOsub font and am sorry to see it go in this day and age. For those who are too new to subbing to know, in the olden days it was all done on Amiga computers, and the folks who made the main Amiga subtitling program, JACOsub, created a font especially for the program. It was designed to be easy to read and simple enough that genlocks could render it cleanly at low or high resolutions for the time (640x480 and 800x600 being high resolution), not to mention stand up to 3 or 4 generations of analog copying/degredation. Unfortunately, the folks who created the font were/are die-hard Amiga addicts and upon asking said that they have no desire to replicate the font for the Windows platform. The font really is quite distinctive, and anyone with a decent stack of VHS subs can tell you who made theirs on an Amiga vs. Windows, because the font is that distinctive.
That said, I've found that Century Gothic between 20 point (for small things like credits) and 30 point (for regular dialogue) works quite well when you give it a nice thick border and shadow in SSA (640x480 mode). The key is to use a simple, sans-serif font and keep it above the overscan margins.
I dunno, I find the levels of blood to be more or less appropriate. I mean, when people are hacking eachother apart with axes you'd expect there to be a *LOT* of blood. I always thought the violence in LoGH seemed a little overly sterile (and in that sense unrealistic), so I actually welcome this change.
While I've never seen war before I *HAVE* seen someone with a severed finger and let me tell you even a relatively small wound like that releases a *LOT* of blood everywhere.
Regarding JACOSub... Well, AmigaOS 4.0 is coming out soon and given that it will be my primary OS I will be experimenting to see what I can do with it. Obviously the days of genlocks are over (except for a very few specialized live applications) but since subs are a big issue to me I'm going to maybe play around a bit to see if I can write an Arexx script to have JACOSub output overlays and timing info in a format that some NLE software will understand, making JACO capable of being used in a digisub-production process.
Anyway, back to LoGH, I really hope enough interest can be raised for a domestic release. Best case scenario would be an uncensored, subtitled run on US TV, but that's dreaming a bit I think. ^^;
Just finished downloading all of the Central Anime fansubs, they're really nice. The video quality is good. The encoding breaks apart in a couple of spots, but nothing serious and it's still incredible when compared to the VHS rips we've been watching (again and again and again).
I'm very impressed that they did everything right with the subtitles themselves. They are yellow with a black border around the letters, and they're a decent size. I can still read them from across the room and they're never lost in the visuals. Beautiful work, other fansubbers could learn from this example (tiny white or yellow fansubs are BAD! BAD, BAD, BAD!).
Still, here's hoping the DVD set becomes a reality.
This is Brian with Central Anime
Yeah, on the video encoding, most of the drop outs you see are from the fact that we are actually using an analog source for both the video and subtitling <Laserdisc through Amiga via genlock>. <Must note that XVID recreates the LD "race effects" perfectly. Those would be the horizontal lines that appear for 1 second or so when the LD hits a dirt speck, the visual effect looks like a professional VCR on fast forward>
We have the series done up through about episode 60 and have scripts in various states of work up into the 90s. "Various states of work" defined as anywhere from translated but not timed to timed, but still fine tuning the timing and grammer>. Since we've only up through 4 in the digisub release this obviously won't pose a problem for some time.
We've actually been working on this series since 1997 or so, the episodes beyond say EPS 40 were not very widely released because, as you might imagine, with the rise of digisubs and the sort of intermediate VCD / DIVX 3.11 trading days from 99-2001 it had killed our traditional distribution method of VHS tape exchange.
Have fun .. this is a great show <In case you didn't notice>
Hiya Brian.....
Thanks for capping LoGH! Capping live from the genlock is an interesting way to do it but it appears to work OK. Incidentally what genlock are you using? What LD player?
A question though, why only 512x384? The lost resolution is really noticeable. :-( I know the print used for the telecine wasn't the best, but I'd like to see a higher resolution capture. Scaling to 384 vertical pixels does ugly things to stuff that came from an interlaced source. =P Also, while I realize the somewhat fuzzy telecine does not take advantage of the full resolution of the LD format, I think it would still yield an improvement to capture at a higher horizontal resolution.
We actually capture to a prosumer grade standalone DVD recorder and process the video with avisynth and virtualdub<mod> for all video processing.
While the video off the laserdisc is interlaced, the encode done at the DVDr is progressive. As far as resolution ,. the 512/384 is about the actual line resolution of the LD source <DVD = 480, LD = ~380 - 400, VHS =190-220, SVHS =300>
I'm still working on some of the filters so we can release at an unscaled 640/480 .. for right now the tradeoff of XVID is visual artifacts at 640/480 or very few to no artifacts at 512/384 ..
If you are seeing a lot of artifacts ,. might want to consider updating to the latest xvid release .. 1.0 beta 3 is out.
and as with every group ,. still tweaking the output with each release.
Satsuke
Hiya Brian.....
Thanks for capping LoGH! Capping live from the genlock is an interesting way to do it but it appears to work OK. Incidentally what genlock are you using? What LD player?
A question though, why only 512x384? The lost resolution is really noticeable. :-( I know the print used for the telecine wasn't the best, but I'd like to see a higher resolution capture. Scaling to 384 vertical pixels does ugly things to stuff that came from an interlaced source. =P Also, while I realize the somewhat fuzzy telecine does not take advantage of the full resolution of the LD format, I think it would still yield an improvement to capture at a higher horizontal resolution.
Woo! Great to see Central Anime on the scene releasing digisubs. :) And great to hear that you've got so much LoGH in the pipeline.
We actually capture to a prosumer grade standalone DVD recorder and process the video with avisynth and virtualdub<mod> for all video processing.
I hope you're setting it to maximum quality encoding. Realtime MPEG-2 encoders can be pretty poor in the limited bandwidth that DVD allows (just under a measly 10Mbps max). The tiny artifacts that you get from this form generational artifacts when you go to the MPEG-4 encode. You're always going to lose something from the intermediate MPEG-2 step, but if you set it to the maximum possible quality you can mimize it pretty well.
While the video off the laserdisc is interlaced, the encode done at the DVDr is progressive. As far as resolution ,. the 512/384 is about the actual line resolution of the LD source <DVD = 480, LD = ~380 - 400, VHS =190-220, SVHS =300>
I'm still working on some of the filters so we can release at an unscaled 640/480 .. for right now the tradeoff of XVID is visual artifacts at 640/480 or very few to no artifacts at 512/384 ..
LDs do indeed yield about 400 lines of square horizontal resolution without any filters, which works out to about 532 horizontal pixels on a 4:3 display... but these are not actually PIXELS. It's actually a gradual falloff. Good LD players have a high-frequency-gain circuit that boosts the falloff curve into more of a sudden cliff, and then applies noise reduction to compensate for the poorer SNR of those frequencies. It's basically the same thing as the "sharpness" control on your TV but it's tuned to only boost frequencies where there is actual information salvageable. (With the advent of pixel-based systems like DVD, high frequency gain has been much maligned since it just worsens image quality on DVDs... ...but the technique is there for a REASON because analog formats dynamic range falls off at high frequencies).
In short you can actually get something closer to 570 horizontal pixels of meaningful data. Most LD players with digital framebuffers output at the same resolution as DVD just to be on the safe side.
What's really killing the image quality though is the vertical scaling. It's REALLY messing up your chroma resolution hardcore. This is because you're doing TWO scalings of your chroma res. LDs do perfect vertical luma and chroma res at 525 scanlines (480 to 481 usable). By capturing to your DVD recorder, MPEG-2 is scaling your vertical chroma image to only 240 lines (MPEG-4 does this too!), and when you scale it in MPEG-4 to 384 you're actually only getting 192 vertical chroma pixels. What is also happening here is you are getting scaling artifacts from performing two scale operations on the chroma instead of one.
Coupled with the interlace artifacting (which is still happening, although it's heavily minimized due to what appears to be an EXCELLENT deinterlacer on your DVD recorder) and the lost vertical luma resolution, it's really hurting your image quality. ^^;
If you are seeing a lot of artifacts ,. might want to consider updating to the latest xvid release .. 1.0 beta 3 is out.
and as with every group ,. still tweaking the output with each release.
Satsuke
Well, I'm not seeing artifacts worse than really anything else in MPEG-4 at that resolution/bitrate. So it's not a problem. Really you should go to at least 640x480 though and jack up your bitrate to compensate though. The video is always going to suck somewhat since it has to be limited to the relatively-crummy bitrates that are transportable over the 'net (if I had my way everything would be lossless :) ) but you could be making it look a lot better.
Also any hope of using DVD sources? The remastered video on the DVD box is great. ^_^
Also any hope of using DVD sources? The remastered video on the DVD box is great. ^_^
I hope not, the reanimated sequences stick out like a sore thumb. I watched a couple episodes of it and just sat there going "crappy cg pan, crappy cg pan, they changed that, what the hell happened to his character design, crappy cg pan..." etc. The whole reanimation thing is almost enough to make me not want to buy an R1 and just keep my LDs.
I hope not, the reanimated sequences stick out like a sore thumb. I watched a couple episodes of it and just sat there going "crappy cg pan, crappy cg pan, they changed that, what the hell happened to his character design, crappy cg pan..." etc. The whole reanimation thing is almost enough to make me not want to buy an R1 and just keep my LDs.
The problem with CG pans is that they move WAY smoother than the rest of the action... Coming from film the 24 fps framerate makes it not as jarring. I wish they'd stop doing 60-field-per-second (or even 30 fps) animation and stick with the 24fps paradigm, even if the pictures never touch actual film.
Unfortunately capturing stuff made for 30fps at 24fps doesn't work real well and makes the pans a bit uneven. =( You just can't win.
I hope you're setting it to maximum quality encoding. Realtime MPEG-2 encoders can be pretty poor in the limited bandwidth that DVD allows (just under a measly 10Mbps max). The tiny artifacts that you get from this form generational artifacts when you go to the MPEG-4 encode. You're always going to lose something from the intermediate MPEG-2 step, but if you set it to the maximum possible quality you can mimize it pretty well.
LDs do indeed yield about 400 lines of square horizontal resolution without any filters, which works out to about 532 horizontal pixels on a 4:3 display... but these are not actually PIXELS. It's actually a gradual falloff. Good LD players have a high-frequency-gain circuit that boosts the falloff curve into more of a sudden cliff, and then applies noise reduction to compensate for the poorer SNR of those frequencies. It's basically the same thing as the "sharpness" control on your TV but it's tuned to only boost frequencies where there is actual information salvageable. (With the advent of pixel-based systems like DVD, high frequency gain has been much maligned since it just worsens image quality on DVDs... ...but the technique is there for a REASON because analog formats dynamic range falls off at high frequencies).
In short you can actually get something closer to 570 horizontal pixels of meaningful data. Most LD players with digital framebuffers output at the same resolution as DVD just to be on the safe side.
What's really killing the image quality though is the vertical scaling. It's REALLY messing up your chroma resolution hardcore. This is because you're doing TWO scalings of your chroma res. LDs do perfect vertical luma and chroma res at 525 scanlines (480 to 481 usable). By capturing to your DVD recorder, MPEG-2 is scaling your vertical chroma image to only 240 lines (MPEG-4 does this too!), and when you scale it in MPEG-4 to 384 you're actually only getting 192 vertical chroma pixels. What is also happening here is you are getting scaling artifacts from performing two scale operations on the chroma instead of one.
Coupled with the interlace artifacting (which is still happening, although it's heavily minimized due to what appears to be an EXCELLENT deinterlacer on your DVD recorder) and the lost vertical luma resolution, it's really hurting your image quality. ^^;
Well, I'm not seeing artifacts worse than really anything else in MPEG-4 at that resolution/bitrate. So it's not a problem. Really you should go to at least 640x480 though and jack up your bitrate to compensate though. The video is always going to suck somewhat since it has to be limited to the relatively-crummy bitrates that are transportable over the 'net (if I had my way everything would be lossless :) ) but you could be making it look a lot better.
Also any hope of using DVD sources? The remastered video on the DVD box is great. ^_^
While I have seen a DVD rip of the new R2 DVD, it also happens to have the new retouched animation that has caused a little controversy <We've played the game of "improved video" .. TokyoPop used <and credited> our subtitles on the commercial release of Initial D, but proceeded to mangle and mutilate the video with the "tricked out" version>.
As it is we have an entirely analog based capture mechanism and for this series, which for us is largely in the can <we have finished versions up through the 60s and scripts up into the 90s> .. don't see changing the source anytime soon.
There is also the issue of taking DVD rip / compressed once sources and recompressing them again .. which would be a minimum of 3 full recompressions and 1 RGB to YUV conversions. I am looking into using the Matroska container format, but at this point I don't see the granularity of control over font and placement available in MKV as we do using our current systems.
As far as the cumulative effect of filters and resolution, you are correct, DVD recorders / DVD in general only use 1/2 of the horizontal chroma information. At this point the end result of DVDr to AVI is an acceptable trade off, the reasons for scaling to 512/384 have been talked about elsewhere ,. for my intermediate runs for the next 4 episodes I've been scaling to 640 / 480 from 704/480, but still haven't decided on how to proceed.
The actual number of horizontal lines of chroma encoded is somewhere above 192 .. given that the decompression filter from DVD to AVI is going through the corresponding approximation of the dropped chroma phase.
As far as deinterlace filters, the DVD <i've learned> is encoding interlaced, it's the deinterlace filter built into a specific version of HuffYUV that we've been using .. if you care .. we've had a good deal of luck with huffy as a intermediate step up until recently .. a newer version was installed and hence generates a jumping effect seen in unreleased encoding runs internally>.
The eventualy point we want to get to is capturing directly to HuffyUV rather than DVDr .. but at present we are still identifying capture boards that are up to the task while maintaining color fidelity.
As far as artifacts with the scaling process .. I personally see more compression artifacts in space scenes and the like when using the larger sizes and thus the smaller resolution is better for this purpose.
The observation that bitrates are a bit low is correct .. the newer xvid builds I have used have a small applet that shows the bandwidth XVID wants to use .. for most video tasks it wants to use 3000+ kb/s for even simple sequences.
There is also the issue of taking DVD rip / compressed once sources and recompressing them again .. which would be a minimum of 3 full recompressions and 1 RGB to YUV conversions. I am looking into using the Matroska container format, but at this point I don't see the granularity of control over font and placement available in MKV as we do using our current systems.
True, that. I credit you for taking the time to look at Matroksa though. It is a very nice container. It obviously doesn't work as well as a pre-encoded overlay that you tune ahead of time, but it's a potential solution. Thanks for checking it out though, even though it didn't work out.
As far as the cumulative effect of filters and resolution, you are correct, DVD recorders / DVD in general only use 1/2 of the horizontal chroma information. At this point the end result of DVDr to AVI is an acceptable trade off, the reasons for scaling to 512/384 have been talked about elsewhere ,. for my intermediate runs for the next 4 episodes I've been scaling to 640 / 480 from 704/480, but still haven't decided on how to proceed.
The horizontal chroma scaling isn't a problem! Any relatively recent LD was mastered from D2. It's initially sampled at 4:2:2 so the horizontal chroma is halved right off the bat just like DVD, and the quadrature modulated chroma signal in it actually cuts horizontal chroma resolution down below even half the luma, so going to DVD and even to 512x384 you're actually not losing any horizontal chroma!
The problem is VERTICAL chroma resolution. LDs, DVDs, etc, are discrete scanlines and so have perfect vertical chroma res. DVDs are 4:0:0 sampled which means they halve the vertical chroma as well as the horizontal. This is where you are getting serious loss of data! Obviously it will be halved no matter what going to MPEG-4, but at least at 640x480 you'd be cutting your vertical chroma loss to DVD levels.
As far as deinterlace filters, the DVD <i've learned> is encoding interlaced, it's the deinterlace filter built into a specific version of HuffYUV that we've been using .. if you care .. we've had a good deal of luck with huffy as a intermediate step up until recently .. a newer version was installed and hence generates a jumping effect seen in unreleased encoding runs internally>.
Yah huffyuv is the best for editing. It's fast and lossless.
The eventualy point we want to get to is capturing directly to HuffyUV rather than DVDr .. but at present we are still identifying capture boards that are up to the task while maintaining color fidelity.
Well, to do a really good job, you need a pro card, and that's expensive. There's simply nothing to be done about it. If you're looking for something on the consumer end of things then one of the Matrox cards would do you the best, followed by the ATI All in Wonders... keep in mind that the consumer-grade cards will drop frames from time to time if you don't feed them with tons of RAM and such, and there's not a lot to do about that.
As far as artifacts with the scaling process .. I personally see more compression artifacts in space scenes and the like when using the larger sizes and thus the smaller resolution is better for this purpose.
Well, finer detail means the need for more bitrate. Jack up the rate and you'll get the better resolution.That's all there is to it.
Have you considered using a non-square pixel aspect? Like 512x480? That way you'd be using the extra resolution on where the most extra data was.
Wait for Central to do it.
Most of you are probably too new to remember Central (and even then, most of you prolly never saw their tapes as they didn't really have a distribution model outside of their club/friends)
Good shit guys, I am glad to see you in the world of Digisubbing. You will single-handedly create a new standard.
And JACOsub is the shit!!! Old School :D
EvilTesdall
2004-04-26, 22:12
I have recently found this anime around and got something up into the 47 range. and found the trail ends there, i will be more than happy to trade, or ermm..just leech the other episodes. i don't care how they are done as long as they have english subtitles (and are done corectly) and not...awww man i smoked to much weed.. however that was a funny episode of naruto ^_^. Its an awesome show and i saw that they have the DVD's out and im only in season like i think it was 2 or 3 ... out of something 8 ??? don't recall. Well someone please respond to this...and give me my crack...i mean fix ^_^....same thing i suppose.
You should sign the pledge to buy the hopefully extant R1 release here (http://www.gineigoods.com/form/). Everyone should!
Rheinhard
2004-04-27, 00:39
You should sign the pledge to buy the hopefully extant R1 release here (http://www.gineigoods.com/form/). Everyone should!
Right you are Fronzel!
And EvilTesdall, you don't know how lucky you are, having just recently found the show and getting as far as you have. Some of us who have followed this show since the beginning have been waiting for fansubs to get past that point for, oh, about a decade now... :(
If you need more background details on the show, be sure to check out the LoGH Info Center (http://www.logh.net/logh.htm), the most complete LoGH English language reference around!
Logh is a masterpiece and I have the whole series(1-110ep) except the movies and the gaiden ova's on dvd. I dont really have any experience of dvd ripping or how to seed torrents but if its relatively easy(and costs nothin) and some of you help me out then I would like to put them up for download.
The new Aoi-anime episode 1 of the DVD version is excellent. If you don't mind the DVD retouches, then you're in for a treat. Color, detail, and pans are all excellent. The translation has been added to in some select spots.
The series is certainly getting crowded. Have any groups dropped out?
Logh is a masterpiece and I have the whole series(1-110ep) except the movies and the gaiden ova's on dvd. I dont really have any experience of dvd ripping or how to seed torrents but if its relatively easy(and costs nothin) and some of you help me out then I would like to put them up for download.Someone grab him and chain him to the desk before he leaves! :help:
Seriously, if I were you I'd head into the forums of particular fansub groups and see if any of them are interested in this non licenced clasic that no one has done DVD rips of before. Its a big series and old, so you may still find not all will bite straight away, plus some may need to finish off an existing project first.
You will find that if you get a fansub group interested, they will probably give you suggestions on how they would like the raws to be gotten and give suggestions and tips on their prefered software.
You wont need to worry about so much about uploading/hosting the file when ripped, but they may want you to learn mirc file transfering on their chat channel for files of those sorts of sizes?
I would consider making a post in the fansubs forum section as it gets some trafic from random groups members (if you dont fancy searching and trawling around for specific groups websites/mirc channels yourself - and not all have websites), where as this post may not get viewed by potentially interested parties.
Longinus
2004-07-06, 01:54
Ooh, this is one of my favorite SF anime series also.
Too bad I can't seem to find all the episodes here in canada... I have the movies and the side storie, I don't have the complete TV series though, which now I'm trying to get off BT.
As for the praise people are giving this series, I absolutely agree this is the best ever. The scale of the battles, the ideals of the common soldiers and the intricacies of politics is very nicely woven into this masterpieve of a space opera.
I've even done a rough Brunhilde model in 3D a few years back(well it wasn't exactly "done"), it was intended to be included in a mod of the space sim Starshatter, though unfortunately my HD crashed and I lost the model and these pics (http://www.geocities.com/robomob/pics.html) are what's left of it.
Your gundam model is quite impressive!
Anyone knows anything about the Spiral Labyrinth OVAs? Are they prequels to the original series or what?
Anyone knows anything about the Spiral Labyrinth OVAs? Are they prequels to the original series or what?
1)All of LoGH is OVA.
2)The last two boxsets (the white one and the purple one) are prequel OVAs. These include the "Spiral Labrynth" and "Valley of White Silver" stories, as well as others. The second Gaiden (side story/prequel) set also was the first time they used digital for LoGH. And boy does it look craptacular...
1)All of LoGH is OVA.
2)The last two boxsets (the white one and the purple one) are prequel OVAs. These include the "Spiral Labrynth" and "Valley of White Silver" stories, as well as others. The second Gaiden (side story/prequel) set also was the first time they used digital for LoGH. And boy does it look craptacular...
We have all the scripts for the Gaidens as well as the 110 eps of LOGH. As soon as I escape the sandpit we'll start finishing this up. I'm currently having the first 54 eps translations rechecked. The earlier ones will start coming fast and furious and natrually slow down as they catch up to what isn't done. Look for the flood to start next month.
Heibi
Central Anime
Hisoka Hajime
2004-08-26, 20:30
Can someone please give me a summary as to what happends in this episode? I saw the first 10 or so minutes till my disk will no longer play and goes back to the menu. I also tried on many other dvd players, but it seems like the rest of the ep just isn't on the disk to begin with. Thanks a lot!
Can someone please give me a summary as to what happends in this episode? I saw the first 10 or so minutes till my disk will no longer play and goes back to the menu. I also tried on many other dvd players, but it seems like the rest of the ep just isn't on the disk to begin with. Thanks a lot!
http://www.logh.net has short summaries for each episode as well as a message board which may be more appropriate for major spoiler discussion.
Hey CA guys,
I am down to help you guys in any way I can. Seeding, translation checking, timing, you name it... I want this series to come out in its entirety and I truly appreciate your guys' releasing this.
Is Todd still around? Just curious... ;0 (old school.. I still have one of your fansub tapes laying around, the Street Fighter II movie... I show it to all my friends as an example of what happened to anime when brought over before it got big in the states)
The tape is real old, I'm considering transferring it to DVD just so it never wears out. :)
Hey CA guys,
I am down to help you guys in any way I can. Seeding, translation checking, timing, you name it... I want this series to come out in its entirety and I truly appreciate your guys' releasing this.
Is Todd still around? Just curious... ;0 (old school.. I still have one of your fansub tapes laying around, the Street Fighter II movie... I show it to all my friends as an example of what happened to anime when brought over before it got big in the states)
The tape is real old, I'm considering transferring it to DVD just so it never wears out. :)
I'm still here. And pretty soon, LOGH will be flowing at a steady pace. We're trying something new with the subtitles that we hope will make everyone happy. So will the Touch fans. Now, if Satsuke would upload #8.... :naughty:
Anyone in our area can always stop by and see how we do things. We have Saturday meetings. Contact me privately if interested. Meetings are free as always.
Heibi
What am I missing, isn't this episode 7? I clearly remember watching this episode over a month ago... How's that possible?
Anyway, didn't know where to post about this since I can't find any means to contact Central Anime directly. Sorry.
What am I missing, isn't this episode 7? I clearly remember watching this episode over a month ago... How's that possible?
Anyway, didn't know where to post about this since I can't find any means to contact Central Anime directly. Sorry.
I'll take a look.
Oh, was the title "Cool, Clear, Cybernetic Eyes" ?
I also noticed that a "Miscellaneous" Group uplaoded LOGH. Are you sure you didn't watch that one alreaady? They may have used old tapes or something to torrent it. :confused:
Heibi
Central Anime
I'll take a look.
Oh, was the title "Cool, Clear, Cybernetic Eyes" ?
I also noticed that a "Miscellaneous" Group uplaoded LOGH. Are you sure you didn't watch that one alreaady? They may have used old tapes or something to torrent it. :confused:
Heibi
Central Anime
Nope, I forgot that the episode's title comes last. The episode's called "Iserlohn Invasion!".
Nope, I forgot that the episode's title comes last. The episode's called "Iserlohn Invasion!".
Strange. Anyone else experience this? I'll have Satsuke recheck what he uploaded.
Strange. Anyone else experience this? I'll have Satsuke recheck what he uploaded.
Yes, it looks to be episode 7.
Yes, it looks to be episode 7.
Oops. Sorry about that. Looks like the wrong ep was uploaded.
We'll have it hopefully corrected real soon.
Heibi
Grr .. DVX encoded the segment I selected and hit delete for ..
It's been yanked .. i'll email animesuki admin requesting it be nuked from the main page.
Should have the REAL episode up in a couple of days.
Satsuke
Grr .. DVX encoded the segment I selected and hit delete for ..
It's been yanked .. i'll email animesuki admin requesting it be nuked from the main page.
Should have the REAL episode up in a couple of days.
Satsuke
And it's back up! THe real one this time! We hope. ;)
Heibi
Central Anime
And it's back up! THe real one this time! We hope. ;)
Heibi
Central Anime
Tell us what you think of the digi-subs. Our first Digi0sub release.
Heibi
Central Anime
Tell us what you think of the digi-subs. Our first Digi0sub release.
Heibi
Central AnimeOh, man... Darn it, for some reason I can't watch this episode, the audio goes out of sync within seconds. Anyway, it looks like it's my computer and not the file that's causing the problem (although it's kind of strange cause this is the first time it's ever happened to me). Perhaps I haven't got the codec used for encoding this episode... :(
Still, the subs look nice, not too flashy, just the way I like them ;)
Does anyone know what the german title of this series actually is and what it means? The gothicky font is a bit hard to read.
Does anyone know what the german title of this series actually is and what it means? The gothicky font is a bit hard to read.
Herdensagen Vom Kosmosineset is what it says during Seasons 1 and 2.
It means the exact same thing as the English title. However, during the seasons where it says "Herdensagen" it means "Legend of the Galactic Herd"(Mooo). :eyespin: An "R/L" mistake. It should have been "Heldensagen" i.e. "Heroes". German speakers, I believe I got that right. :hmm:
Heibi
Central Anime
IMSabbel
2004-09-25, 15:31
Yeah, "Heldensagen" means heroic tales
Honestly, I prefer the genlock'd JACOsub'd version.
I guess I just love that old font.
But yeah.. my vote goes for JACOsub
tasogare
2004-11-04, 15:49
I just stumbled upon this series... and after 2 epsiodes, I'm already firmly hooked! I just love epic space sagas (even if this one doesn't appear to have any sexy Abh. ;)) Looking forward very much to the remaining 108 eps. :)
Good job Central Anime, and many many thanks for your hard work!
I think before too long you'll find just why so many people that love both shows tend to call Banner of Stars "LotGH Light". As one of the most grand Space Operas in all of anime, this show simply does not dissapoint.
I've noticed that there haven't been any Galactic Heroe episodes coming out recently, so I just wanted to ask if the fansub group is still subbing it ? There are quite many episodes of it, but are you still going to sub all of them?
I've noticed that there haven't been any Galactic Heroe episodes coming out recently, so I just wanted to ask if the fansub group is still subbing it ? There are quite many episodes of it, but are you still going to sub all of them?
There was just an episode a couple days ago. Central's got it in rotation with Touch and Macross 7 (a diff show each day).
I've noticed that there haven't been any Galactic Heroe episodes coming out recently, so I just wanted to ask if the fansub group is still subbing it ? There are quite many episodes of it, but are you still going to sub all of them?
I'm not aware of any other group that has a more aggressive release schedule than we have of late. That is unless your being sarcastic .. in which case yes, we have a glacial release rate, as opposed to such group as Chizeto or moonlight hentai hectic release schedule (no offense to either group)
Satsuke
Central Anime
Kamui4356
2004-11-08, 00:55
I just recently saw this anime, and I have to say it's probably the best anime I've seen. My thanks go out to the people at central anime for continuing this series, hopefully to completion. Anyone who considers themselves an anime fan must see this series.
Yeh, subbing this on such an aggressive schedule is very much appreciated. :love:
(And thanks to the sharer who is laying down such a fat pipe.)
Looking at your download stats, I can see that y'all are creating quite a following for decades-old shows.
Well, that was a tragic but heavily foreshadowed death scene for Kircheis. Like Konev remarked earlier, the nice guys die early in this age of war.
It's somewhat unbelievable that Ansbach managed to walk into the hall unescorted and unrestrained(unlike Fahrenheit) with _two_ seperately concealed weapons. If that had been a bomb hidden inside Braunschweig's corpse that would have been it for the entire Imperial Naval High Command.
This episode and the Westerland incident really go to show that Oberstein is one pragmatic, efficient, cold-hearted Machiavellian SOB. He surely wasted no time pinning expedient trumped up charges on Lichtenlade. But even Oberstein seems slightly taken aback at the sudden change in Reinhardt when he orders for Lichtenlade's family to be purged.
One thing I don't get is why Annerose decided to leave Reinhardt's mansion. Does she blame him for involving Kircheis and indirectly causing his death? Disapprove of the bloody path he has taken and must take in the future to consolidate his powerbase? Is this the 'favor' Oberstein mentioned he needed from her earlier?
Many thanks to Central Anime for bringing us this underrated classic.
Kamui4356
2004-12-02, 13:33
Well, that was a tragic but heavily foreshadowed death scene for Kircheis. Like Konev remarked earlier, the nice guys die early in this age of war.
It's somewhat unbelievable that Ansbach managed to walk into the hall unescorted and unrestrained(unlike Fahrenheit) with _two_ seperately concealed weapons. If that had been a bomb hidden inside Braunschweig's corpse that would have been it for the entire Imperial Naval High Command.
This episode and the Westerland incident really go to show that Oberstein is one pragmatic, efficient, cold-hearted Machiavellian SOB. He surely wasted no time pinning expedient trumped up charges on Lichtenlade. But even Oberstein seems slightly taken aback at the sudden change in Reinhardt when he orders for Lichtenlade's family to be purged.
I don't really think it needs tags, as up to 47 is available though other sources, at lower quality, but I'll use them anyway.
I've always thought that incident was arranged by Oberstein with the purpose of assassinating Kircheis, who he felt was limiting his influence. The attempted assassination of lohengramm was just a cover. After all, as you said, it's unbeliveable that he could smuggle in weapons, unless he was allowed to do so. Now with that said, who in the room would benefit from an assassination of lohengramm? I can't think of anyone. Now when we think about who would benefit from the assassination of Kircheis, one name comes up, Orberstein who has in the past shown both the will and ability to arrange something like that.
tasogare
2004-12-02, 15:45
First, thanks to CA for this very fast release of ep 26! Good thing, too, with the cliffhanger that ep 25 ended in... :)
Interesting line of thought, even though I don't really think Oberstein did it. After all, Count Reinhard is quite crafty and intelligent himself - wouldn't the murder of this man's closest friend be too risky, all things considered? In terms of character, the deed certainly wouldn't be beyond him, but it would be a gamble at least, and Oberstein doesn't seem the gambling type to me.
Anyway, I still don't understand why Count Reinhard has allowed Oberstein to get that close to him. Personally, I'd rather have a rattlesnake in my bed! :)
About Lady Annerose moving out of the Palace: I've been wondering about that myself. I'd think it's a grief thing. It does seem to be a Lohengramm family trait: remember the young Reinhard's first reaction when his sister was taken away...
Maybe she also doesn't want to witness the path that Reinhard is going to walk from this point. In the Westerland incident, Reinhard lost his "innocence", and with Sieg, he has lost his conscience. I get the feeling that there are dark times ahead indeed, and his soul won't be untainted in the end.
Kamui4356
2004-12-02, 17:41
First, thanks to CA for this very fast release of ep 26! Good thing, too, with the cliffhanger that ep 25 ended in... :)
Interesting line of thought, even though I don't really think Oberstein did it. After all, Count Reinhard is quite crafty and intelligent himself - wouldn't the murder of this man's closest friend be too risky, all things considered? In terms of character, the deed certainly wouldn't be beyond him, but it would be a gamble at least, and Oberstein doesn't seem the gambling type to me.
You could be right, it is a big gamble, but there's just too much that doesn't add up about the assassination attempt. Of course I may be reading way too much into things, but this does seem to be a series where small details matter.
First, the choice of weapons. Surely that laser ring would have been better than a rocket launcher.
Second, the way Oberstein jumped in front of lohengramm. Is orberstein the type to take a bullet for someone? I don't think he is, which tells me he knew the rocket would miss.
Third, the way ansbach missed. Sure Kircheis did grab the rocket launcher, but he pushed it up, while ansbach missed well to the side.
Fourth, the way ansbach confessed to everything then committed suicide. If he was going to kill himself anyway, wouldn't it have been better to say nothing, to maybe plant seeds of suspicion among lohengramm and his closest advisers?
Fifth, the conversation Oberstein had with Lohengramm about kircheis in ep 25. It seemed to me oberstein was planning some way to get rid of Kircheis from the way he was talking.
Sixth, the fact that Kircheis had his sidearm removed before entering the hall, something which he mentioned was never required before. That indicates someone may have known about an assassination attempt, and was removing options for stopping it.
I don't really think it needs tags, as up to 47 is available though other sources, at lower quality, but I'll use them anyway.
Just for reference .. the episodes available here on artimes's page are VHS rips taken from nth gen copies of our subs .. so either way, your viewing our subs.
Satsuke
Kamui4356
2004-12-02, 20:21
Just for reference .. the episodes available here on artimes's page are VHS rips taken from nth gen copies of our subs .. so either way, your viewing our subs.
Satsuke
Which is why I said other sources, not other groups. You had nothing to do with putting that version online, right?
Either way, thanks for rereleasing it. Its much appreciated. :)
Just for reference .. the episodes available here on artimes's page are VHS rips taken from nth gen copies of our subs .. so either way, your viewing our subs.
Satsuke
And uncorrected ones at that. We are updating all previous subtitles. We have our translator rechecking the old subtitles. Not too many corrections were made on the first 26, but starting on 27-30 I had 12 pages of corrections.(A space between each correction in the e-mail)
Heibi
Since this seems to be the appropriate place for conspiracy theories and such...
First, Reinhart may be portrayed as a protagonist, but I was willing to bet at around episode 9 that by the end of this series, if he isn't dead, he'll be a Hitler. Everyone's the hero of their own story, but his story is filled with deceit, ambition and general bad stuff. I'm on record here, he may want noble things, but he's evil.
Second, the characterization of Oberstein from the very beginning said, "I'm going to murder you and usurp your position." I'd always assumed he was going to kill Reinhart at some point, but Kamui's analysis is making sense to me.
Third, the whole killing families thing may seem way harsh, but it's straight Machiavelli. I just started reading The Prince because of this show, and here's a quote that jumped out at me from the beginning.
Re: taking over lands of the same language and culture
"He who has annexed them, if he wishes to hold them, has only to bear in mind two considerations: the one, that the family of their former lord is extinguished; the other, that neither their laws nor their taxes are altered, so that in a very short time they will become entirely one body with the old principality."
I like how in one breath he says, basically, "don't mess with the locals, and KILL THE NOBLES ONE BY ONE, NOT A SINGLE ONE LEFT STANDING!!!!" His reasoning is the same as Reinharts, that remaining relatives have an unfortunate tendency to exact revenge. Kill 'em all.
Since this seems to be the appropriate place for conspiracy theories and such...
Third, the whole killing families thing may seem way harsh, but it's straight Machiavelli. I just started reading The Prince because of this show, and here's a quote that jumped out at me from the beginning.
Re: taking over lands of the same language and culture
"He who has annexed them, if he wishes to hold them, has only to bear in mind two considerations: the one, that the family of their former lord is extinguished; the other, that neither their laws nor their taxes are altered, so that in a very short time they will become entirely one body with the old principality."
I like how in one breath he says, basically, "don't mess with the locals, and KILL THE NOBLES ONE BY ONE, NOT A SINGLE ONE LEFT STANDING!!!!" His reasoning is the same as Reinharts, that remaining relatives have an unfortunate tendency to exact revenge. Kill 'em all.
Although Reinharts spared the child below age of 10. He fully expect them to rebelled against his rule, and he also fully epxected some of his subordinates to rebelled as well. The only one who's absolutely loyal, his conscience in a sense is Siegfried Kircheis. With Siegfried's death, there really isn't anything restraining him. He'll choose the path of Oberstein, the cold logical and rather expedient. Oberstein knows full well his limitation. He know that there is no way in hell the Empire will accept him in full power (only a couple of generations ago, the eugenic law will have made his birth illegal). He needs Reinharts more than the other way around.
It has been a long time since I watched this (on vhs)
but I didn't expect Kircheis to die so early. His character really grew on me. Anyhow, I guess Kircheis' death is in a way a 'good' thing for Reinhart since he can express his full ruthlessness with no constraint. That's the way to fulfill his conquest quickly. If Kircheis didn't die, I suspect he might have tried to convince Reinhart to shake hands with the Free Alliance since upon meeting with Yang Wenli, Kircheis liked YW a lot and YW was all for peace (if I remember correctly).
Grifis
Oberstein knows full well his limitation. He know that there is no way in hell the Empire will accept him in full power (only a couple of generations ago, the eugenic law will have made his birth illegal). He needs Reinharts more than the other way around.
I agree that Oberstein is more likely to be content playing kingmaker and the power behind the throne than to make a play for Imperial Kaiser. He knows he lacks the charisma and tact necessary to establish a new order (his previous COs and Reinhardt's entire staff, even Kircheis, all hated his guts). He also has no fleets directly under his command or allies loyal to him first to back any claim he might make. Without Reinhardt or another power as patron, he is in too vulnerable a position to be a serious contender.
Since this seems to be the appropriate place for conspiracy theories and such...
I could spoil you so thoroughly (having seen the entire series), but I won't...unless asked =P
I could spoil you so thoroughly (having seen the entire series), but I won't...unless asked =P
Heibi can see Exedore's evil mind echoing with evil laughter.
Heibi can see Exedore's evil mind echoing with evil laughter.
Hey, I didn't watch through #59-110 plus the 14 ep arc in Gaiden 2 raw for nothing!
One of these days I'll go back and finish the Gaiden stuff off...the tapes are just sitting on my shelf unwatched as they have been for the last year or two.
Rheinhard
2004-12-07, 22:25
Hey, I didn't watch through #59-110 plus the 14 ep arc in Gaiden 2 raw for nothing!
As one who watched the first movie and early episodes raw back when they first appeared and loved the show even then, I fart in your general direction, you silly mechanized Knnnn-ighit!
As one who watched the first movie and early episodes raw back when they first appeared and loved the show even then, I fart in your general direction, you silly mechanized Knnnn-ighit!
There's an entire cadre of Japanese and Chinese people who've watched the entire series and read all the books multiple times, and they would probably be quite willing to spoil stuff if asked. I don't want to know. I just want to bullshit as each episode comes out.
I think it's more fun to guess and be proven wrong than to just watch the whole thing and say, "oh, that's what happened." When I watch a show that's been out for a while, one of my favorite things to do is find an internet thread that was going on as it was coming out, and then read all the discussion in between episodes. It makes things more interesting.
At any rate, thank you Heibi and Satsuke for 27! I'll come back to this thread for more when I'm done :)
ZeusIrae
2004-12-08, 10:35
The german sentence at the begenning of ep27 :is it a quote?or they invented it.
Just curiosity .
Lohengram changed.I smell a tragic fate there.
Was there ever a rationalisation in the novels or series why the space marines on both sides favor battleaxes and other melee type weapons to range weapons(aside from the cool factor)? Is it a paranoid fear of Zephyr particle emmision? Why not use conventional (non energy) arms then?
tasogare
2004-12-10, 15:14
As i watched Eps 27 and 28 just now, a rather fundamental question popped up in my head: Why do the Empire and the Alliance continue their state of war? I see no obvious reason for it.
Before Reinhard's ascent to power, it was the Empire trying to subjugate what was perceived as a rebellion, and the Alliance protecting themselves from said subjugation. All in all, rather understandable. :)
But now that the Goldenbaum dynasty has ended, with Reinhard's political reforms, the two systems aren't even that different any more, for most practical purposes: The Empire now is a Kaiserreich merely by name, while the Alliance's democracy seems rather lacking.
Economically, this war must be devastating, draining money and the fittest of each generation. Space, however, is vast and limitless, so why not co-exist and expand in different directions?
I just don't get it... but then, for me that's the case with most real-world wars as well, so maybe the serie's portrayal of events is plausible. :)
By the way, I find this new opening text ("Zu jeder Zeit / Zu jedem Ort /...") rather pessimistic. I'd like to think that someday, somewhere, mankind will be able to change and overcome these archaic ways. I wonder how the series will deal with that...
Kamui4356
2004-12-10, 16:11
As i watched Eps 27 and 28 just now, a rather fundamental question popped up in my head: Why do the Empire and the Alliance continue their state of war? I see no obvious reason for it.
Before Reinhard's ascent to power, it was the Empire trying to subjugate what was perceived as a rebellion, and the Alliance protecting themselves from said subjugation. All in all, rather understandable. :)
But now that the Goldenbaum dynasty has ended, with Reinhard's political reforms, the two systems aren't even that different any more, for most practical purposes: The Empire now is a Kaiserreich merely by name, while the Alliance's democracy seems rather lacking.
Economically, this war must be devastating, draining money and the fittest of each generation. Space, however, is vast and limitless, so why not co-exist and expand in different directions?
I just don't get it... but then, for me that's the case with most real-world wars as well, so maybe the serie's portrayal of events is plausible. :)
By the way, I find this new opening text ("Zu jeder Zeit / Zu jedem Ort /...") rather pessimistic. I'd like to think that someday, somewhere, mankind will be able to change and overcome these archaic ways. I wonder how the series will deal with that...
The answer is simple, look who's leading the alliance. They see it as their righteous cause to bring democracy to the universe. Further they seek to use the war for their own political gain. In a lot of ways the alliance government reminds me of the current US administration. Also remember, there is a third player in these events...
At this point, I believe Lohengramm would be more than happy to make peace with the alliance. He really has no reason not to.
However, Truniht sees no reason to make peace with the empire. If he did, the people would start questioning how he and the council run the country. As long as the war is there to distract them, the people won't concern themselves with such things ad the pkc, or government corruption. As soon as the war ends, the people will start seeing all these abuses for their liberities.
alpha3six
2004-12-10, 16:48
I don't think Reinhard intends to let the FPA continue to exist. After all, he promised Kircheis that he would conquer the galaxy. Unlike Yang, Reinhard lives for conquest.
Spoiler ep 40+
Considering what he does in the second half of season 2, he's actively looking for an excuse to finish off the FPA.
As i watched Eps 27 and 28 just now, a rather fundamental question popped up in my head: Why do the Empire and the Alliance continue their state of war? I see no obvious reason for it.
Because technically the Empire is still run by the Goldenbaum Dynasty. Also, the war is one of principles and morals - sort of relevant to study in this day and age.
But now that the Goldenbaum dynasty has ended, with Reinhard's political reforms, the two systems aren't even that different any more, for most practical purposes: The Empire now is a Kaiserreich merely by name, while the Alliance's democracy seems rather lacking.
Don't fool yourself. There's still quite a bit kicking in terms of the Empire's potential. Also, remember that there's not just the Empire and the Alliance in existance, and a new power rises during series 2 (mostly series 3 and 4) as well.
By the way, I find this new opening text ("Zu jeder Zeit / Zu jedem Ort /...") rather pessimistic. I'd like to think that someday, somewhere, mankind will be able to change and overcome these archaic ways. I wonder how the series will deal with that...
The OP quote is rather dead-on, but I'm not going to say more for it would be quite the spoiler. I will just say that the song itself is my least favourite song in all of LoGH, short of the fourth OP (my faves are the Gaiden 1 and Main Series 1 OPs).
Wow, just watched episode 29. Is it just me, or is that the densist episode ever? It's like the voice directors said, "there's too much script to go into a 25-minute episode, just rattle it off as fast as you possibly can."
Edit: No point leaving fixed corrections around for everyone to see.
Wow, just watched episode 29. Is it just me, or is that the densist episode ever? It's like the voice directors said, "there's too much script to go into a 25-minute episode, just rattle it off as fast as you possibly can."
Heibi:I noticed a few things that looked like typos in the script, and since I know that's one thing you absolutely hate, here they are:
8:12 some of loans
8:20 Yes, the the toal is five hundred billion dinars ?
In addition to the obvious "toal," and the two "the"s back to back, I thought maybe the question mark at the end didn't quite go with the placement of the line in the conversation.
21:25 Goldenbbaum
I think you spelled it with one 'b' everywhere else.
Doh! The worst part is that these are after editing the same lines. Stupid fat finger/fill in the missing letter typing.
Thanks
Heibi
I've been rewatching the 1st season's episodes and noticed something regarding the direction this series will take towards the end which I'm kicking myself for not noticing it earlier:
The 1st ED ends with the camera focusing on Julian past Yang Wen Li after a shot showing all the Free Planets Alliance staff and he ends up looking at an image of Reinhard von Lohengram. That is foreshadowing Julian going up directly against Reinhard at the end - meaning we will probably see Yang Wen Li get killed sometime later in this series :upset: ARGGGGHHHHH!!!!! :upset: :( :sad:
I've been rewatching the 1st season's episodes and noticed something regarding the direction this series will take towards the end which I'm kicking myself for not noticing it earlier:
The 1st ED ends with the camera focusing on Julian past Yang Wen Li after a shot showing all the Free Planets Alliance staff and he ends up looking at an image of Reinhard von Lohengram. That is foreshadowing Julian going up directly against Reinhard at the end - meaning we will probably see Yang Wen Li get killed sometime later in this series :upset: ARGGGGHHHHH!!!!! :upset: :( :sad:
Do you really want to know? If so come to our forum page and ask. We have a spoiler section where we can tell ya.
Heibi
Central Anime
darashinaionna
2006-01-20, 09:07
Let me be the first to say this user "glitch" sucks a big one.
61:
Yikes, things are taking a turn for the hella-dramatic-bad-ass. LOVED it when Mrs. Yang laid the smacketh down upon that uppity "executioner". Was that ghetto or what? Sending one lousy peon to off an Admiral. *sigh* Anyways, I'm glad sh!t is going down again.
Besides, I love a man in uniform.
The whole series and the gaiden series is availiable from other sources. I've seen it all, even though its rather bad w/ the english grammar it is still understandable and a GREAT series. I haven't watched the gaiden series yet though.
Darashinai
2006-01-30, 07:15
......huh?
So, you're in Raleigh? *wonders if she knows this person*
pathyfinder
2006-01-30, 15:16
...Yikes, things are taking a turn for the hella-dramatic-bad-ass. LOVED it when Mrs. Yang laid the smacketh down upon that uppity "executioner". Was that ghetto or what? Sending one lousy peon to off an Admiral. *sigh* Anyways, I'm glad sh!t is going down again.
Besides, I love a man in uniform. HAI :love:
sooooooo totally worth watching Yang getting Glomped!
parabellum
2006-05-06, 18:06
What is available in English sub?
I can get 640x480 Japanese raw AVI files about 200mb each (which is excellent quality, no compression defect detectable) of all 110 episode + all 52 episode side stories + movies.
but I could only get around 40 episode worth of english subtitles in .sub format.
which I had to convert to .smi to view with my favorite player.
Currently, CentralAnime has released up to episode 71 subtitled. Note that these episodes are hardsubbed AVI files, their subtitle files are only available up to episode 40 or so.
There are also HK-DVD rips for all 110 episodes, but I wouldn't trust the English subtitles on those.
Central Anime's release has now reached Episode 80. I'm enjoying this series tremendously. However, I'm dreading the next few episodes... :upset: My earlier suspicions and a certain recent episode made an effort to mention something that made me so curious that I've read the episode descriptions at the official website, http://www.ginei.jp (http://www.ginei.jp/), and it confirms the suspicions :upset:
Because of this we will be releasing 81 and 82 on the same day.
Heibi
Central Anime
*after watching the preview for episode 82*
Oh... my.... god...
What... the... hell.........????? :confused:
Speaking of which...
82 is now available.
Heibi
Central Anime
The immense amount of foreshadowing helps soften the blow, but it's still quite poignant. This show is definitely on a short list of really great anime.
alpha3six
2006-07-17, 14:00
Episode 83 is equally powerful. I felt I was right there alongside the characters, that's how immersive and well done it was.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... :upset: Damn it! :upset:
Even though I know something like that was going to happen more than a year ago when I first started watching it (refer to my post on foreshadowing earlier in this thread) and even confirming it recently, I still feel devastated at the end of Episode 82 :upset: :sad:
:upset: *wipes away tears* :upset: Damn it! :upset:
The first time I saw this episode, I had a raw tape run off a friend's laserdisc. Some friends were over at my apartment, and we put the episode on at about 2AM after many drinks. One friend, fluent in Japanese, started interpreting for us as the episode played on, in spite of many SoCo+Rootbeers. It was a tense half hour, as "oh shit" was frequently repeated, and it ended with shock and outrage.
I look forward to seeing the subtitled version now. Thank you, CA.
alpha3six
2006-07-17, 23:16
:upset: *wipes away tears* :upset: Damn it! :upset:
I first learned about Yang's death when I saw a picture of a Yang Wenli model bust at HLJ. It listed the year of his birth and the year of his death, 800. That shocked me to no end but it was still abstract and unreal. A year later I watched ep 82 and I was still stunned when I saw the actual episode. I watched episode 83 immediately afterward and that was when I teared up, after Julian discovered Yang's body and they brought it back to Iserlohn.
Holy... shit...
Just saw episode 82. I didn't think this was going to happen until the last episode if at all...geez.
I did have my suspicions a long time ago though as:
The seiyuu for Yang died somewhere inbetween seasons 3 and 4, but there was no alternate seiyuu listed for Yang Wenli on Animenewsnetwork, although I just assumed that was because no one bothered to enter one in...
Damn this show is too good. I wonder how the last 20 episodes will turn out now...
I will say only this: Yangs death was very unfortunate but the incidents that will happen after yangs death will be also really tragical.
A minute of silence for Yang.
...
Just...
...............
How about spoiler tags?
I'm currently watching the series too and i'm still a tad far from ep 82 just released.:)
I did have my suspicions a long time ago though as:
The seiyuu for Yang died somewhere inbetween seasons 3 and 4, but there was no alternate seiyuu listed for Yang Wenli on Animenewsnetwork, although I just assumed that was because no one bothered to enter one in...
Actually, Yang died in the original novels as well. He *was* recast for the second side-series, though I don't know the guy's name.
Also....
If you think this is tragic, just keep watching. You can count the recurring survivors on your fingers.
Mind Elemental
2006-07-19, 06:52
I knew it was coming, but still... a heck of an episode. I can't wait for 83.
Mega-Pimp
2006-07-19, 07:48
Aww...did see it coming tough...still...way to go :(
Can't understand why he didn't bring a few Rozenritter with him, two guys on the whole ship armed with pistols? :rolleyes:
Aww...did see it coming tough...still...way to go :(
Can't understand why he didn't bring a few Rozenritter with him, two guys on the whole ship armed with pistols? :rolleyes:
Because Yang wanted to show Reinhard that his intention of a peace talk was true and therefore he took only a small amount of security with him.
If he took a whole army with him then his intentions would be seen as a provocation. This is at least my opinion.
Aww...did see it coming tough...still...way to go :(
Can't understand why he didn't bring a few Rozenritter with him, two guys on the whole ship armed with pistols? :rolleyes:
Were you not paying attention? They explain it within the episode.
The ending song for this season foreshadows that all is not going to go well... However, when did they have the picnic? And von Kreuzer in a dress?
The ending song for this season foreshadows that all is not going to go well... However, when did they have the picnic? And von Kreuzer in a dress?
They never had a picnic and the 3rd outro is IMHO the worst outro ever compared to the absolutly wonderful outro #1 and #4; outro #2 was also nice but not so good as the other two...
Well somehow the outr #3 is misplaced because they never had such peacful moments and they never will have such peaceful moments...
Well whatever..
Mega-Pimp
2006-07-21, 07:13
Considering that both sides knew about all the dangers with what...2 fleets of angry imperial soldiers?
Taking a few dozen good soldiers as security wouldn't be seen as disrespectful. Especially as he's going right into the imperial mainfleet.
Not much good they would have done in any situation except a small boarding action.
But I'll go with the suspension of disbelief on this one. :)
83 is just too sad. :(
98 is much more sad, belive me.. you will see it.
98 is much more sad, belive me.. you will see it. Booooooo!!!! No more hints please... you're making me desperate :D
98 is much more sad, belive me.. you will see it.
It's been a while since I watched my raws (like before the R2 DVDs came out while). Is that the one where...
Reuental dies? Or is that the giant massacre of the Rosenritter? If it's the former, then I really loved that episode because Truniht gets his arse killed with him.
WARNING: I may have episodes mixed up in case you haven't seen all of series four.
It's been a while since I watched my raws (like before the R2 DVDs came out while). Is that the one where...
Reuental dies? Or is that the giant massacre of the Rosenritter? If it's the former, then I really loved that episode because Truniht gets his arse killed with him.
WARNING: I may have episodes mixed up in case you haven't seen all of series four.
BIG BIG Spiler ahead!
You are quite correct but not only Reuenthal dies in this episode you can also witness the suicide of Bergengrün, the only positve aspect of this episode was that Trunhit was killed.
The massacre of the Rosenritter is 108, when they want to capture the Brünhild
98 is much more sad, belive me.. you will see it.
Please try not to post spoilers or even alude to spoilers if you can... the show is still being subbed and this is the fansub forum!
Darashinai
2006-08-15, 18:18
Wow.
After being away for 3 weeks, I was so excited after seeing the reactions ont he board I commandeered a friend's laptop so I could watch the batch.
In-fuckin-creadible. I cried, sure. 80 episodes of loving him and he ups and go away. Just not fair.
Poor Reinhard....
ordnance11
2006-09-10, 12:03
Okay, I have a question...why? What motive did these terrorists have for offing Yang?
Okay, I have a question...why? What motive did these terrorists have for offing Yang?
well thats to easy to anwser.
Yang and Reinhard were on the way to a cease-fire/maybe permanent peace discussions.
Reinhard was to heavily guarded, therefore the terrorist or rather terraists choose Yang as a target, because he dind't had a guard.
There motives were easy to understand.
If a peace treaty were singed by both sides, the era of chaos were coming to an end. But the terraism clut used that chaos to lure belivers. If the chaos disapered then the amount of belivers would be descreasing.
stormy001_M1A2
2006-11-18, 12:00
A bit late, but I do felt strongly when that incident happen. The writer is really merciless, hacking away characters like flies. The title is apt though, truly a galactic epic scale of story and people with their fates can both cruel or kind.
Well done anime, well story which amazes me until today that it is quite old too.
My blog second entry is dedicated to this series, have a look.
Rheinhard
2007-01-27, 21:31
Just put up a new video on Youtube which I thought would be of interest.
An Anime Mashup more than a music video, this clip takes the video from the Fortress Iserlohn docking sequence from the first Galactic Heroes movie and puts it to the song "Gathering the Fleet" from the Space Battleship Yamato soundtrack (a theme I always used to call "The Gamilon March").
With a massive flotilla of Imperial spaceships, the themes match and the video syncs up remarkably well without any significant editing. Add to this that both anime series were directed by the same man (Noboru Ishiguro), and star some of the same actors (Kei Tomiyama as "Susumu Kodai" and "Yang Wen-Li", and Goro Naya as "Admiral Okita" and "Admiral Merkatz), some Yamato/LoGH mashup seemed natural.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuekWDj4P6k
Ah... loving this show a lot. Thanks to Central Anime for the recent release of fansubbed Episode 95. Can't wait for the release of fansubbed Episode 96 for the start of hostilities between Reuental and Mittermeyer.
Many thanks!
panzerfan
2007-03-15, 05:12
I am in tears over this anime... the drama, the characters...
This is, truly, a masterpiece.
What I await to see is the handling of what is to come for Juilan in terms of tribulation.
As for the conflict between Reuental and Mittermeyer... perhaps, the lull before the storm is about to end.
Kempis Curious
2007-03-17, 23:43
Goddess of anime, forgive me... I've been slacking off on watching LoGH.
I just watched episode 82...
Oh my god. :upset:
I've been watching anime for a long, long time; only a good anime can move my emotions. Legend of the Galactic Heroes is an exceptionally good anime.
Oh... watching fansubbed anime is the best hobby in the universe. Thank you, Central Anime. :)
-k
curious
panzerfan
2007-03-18, 11:30
I finished the entire drama. Episode 82 really crushed my heart... what followed made me felt a sense of misery not since AIR TV.
Kaioshin Sama
2007-03-18, 12:44
I finished the entire drama. Episode 82 really crushed my heart... what followed made me felt a sense of misery not since AIR TV.
Yes far too people know of this masterpiece because of its age. That and they see the Sci-Fi fleet battles and think it can't be an epic.... well everything because its primarily about war, violence and space opera. Damn shame really.
It's amazing that somebody would compare it to AIR or any Key product, especially someone who just watched Kanon. I always thought that those were considered the pinnacle of emotional tear-jerkers for people. Believe it or not the show is ranked median Masterpiece and is #46 on ANN. Of course that's all but meanlingless, but startling since all you ever see on that Top 50 board is shows that are all the rage at the moment (2006-2007). Tell all your friends about Legend of The Galactic Heroes, this show doesn't deserve to go unnoticed any longer. Tell them you can still have men in the cast and be just as moving and dramatic.
Yes far too people know of this masterpiece because of its age. That and they see the Sci-Fi fleet battles and think it can't be an epic.... well everything because its primarily about war, violence and space opera. Damn shame really.
"Damn shame" is putting it too nicely. "Cruelly and criminally ignored" is more appropriate.
It's amazing that somebody would compare it to AIR or any Key product, especially someone who just watched Kanon. I always thought that those were considered the pinnacle of emotional tear-jerkers for people.
More like overdone maudlin pieces.
Tell all your friends about Legend of The Galactic Heroes, this show doesn't deserve to go unnoticed any longer. Tell them you can still have men in the cast and be just as moving and dramatic.
I've been pimping the show at every chance I get to people that I know of who have interest in a well-crafted mature show.
Nightengale
2007-03-18, 22:01
I told my friends this.
"If you don't watched Legend of Galactic Heroes, you'd lose 1/5th of your life as a self-proclaimed anime fan."
LoGH's beauty is one of an epic scale that is among the greatest in the history of anime, in my opinion. It's epic classical soundtrack, the historical depth and scale, the realistic characters in war and the plot are simply amazing. Not to mention Legend of Galactic Heroes is one of the few series that really defies anime convention in terms of execution. It's sad that so few are watching or had watched it. I consider it easily one of the top 5 anime I had watched in my life, even when placed alongside some classic anime franchises that span movies like Doraemon.
I feel disgusted that there are even people who stopped watching after episode 3 because of lame reasons like, "It's wayyyy too serious, It's SLOOWWWW as hell, the action are lame. Couple of ugly ships shooting lasers? No thanks."
I normally respect general opinion on what some people consider as their taste in anime, but LoGH is one series where if someone can't see the beauty behind the it and thinks that some "over-popular" series is a masterpiece on par or even better with this, I'd laugh at that person. People are throwing the term "best anime" and "masterpiece" around too easily.
Kaioshin Sama
2007-03-18, 22:33
I told my friends this.
"If you don't watched Legend of Galactic Heroes, you'd lose 1/5th of your life as a self-proclaimed anime fan."
LoGH's beauty is one of an epic scale that is among the greatest in the history of anime, in my opinion. It's epic classical soundtrack, the historical depth and scale, the realistic characters in war and the plot are simply amazing. Not to mention Legend of Galactic Heroes is one of the few series that really defies anime convention in terms of execution. It's sad that so few are watching or had watched it. I consider it easily one of the top 5 anime I had watched in my life, even when placed alongside some classic anime franchises that span movies like Doraemon.
I feel disgusted that there are even people who stopped watching after episode 3 because of lame reasons like, "It's wayyyy too serious, It's SLOOWWWW as hell, the action are lame. Couple of ugly ships shooting lasers? No thanks."
I normally respect general opinion on what some people consider as their taste in anime, but LoGH is one series where if someone can't see the beauty behind the it and thinks that some "over-popular" series is a masterpiece on par or even better with this, I'd laugh at that person. People are throwing the term "best anime" and "masterpiece" around too easily.
A LOOOOOT of people can't like past the first layer of any given production I find. So since the first thing they see is the Brynhilde (I haven't actually gotten to the series proper as I'm still watching Spiral Labryinth) they assume that all it is is a bunch of ships blowing each other up. Never mind the fact that you follow Reinhard throughout his entire life starting with Golden Wings and that every character has a story to tell, if its got ships and violence its not deep and intricate to some people. That's why I'm glad Panzerfan who just came off of the less epic, but still serious and melodramatic Kanon could see the whole picture. It's one of those precious series that can bridge the gap between different sides of anime fandom if you are willing to give it a fair chance.
Truniht _finally_ gets what's coming to him. It's about time! He's just about the only character in the series with no redeeming points whatsoever.
Kempis Curious
2007-04-04, 10:00
Truniht _finally_ gets what's coming to him. It's about time! He's just about the only character in the series with no redeeming points whatsoever.
I agree that was pretty satisfying. :D
I thought it was hard to feel sorry for
Ruenthal... his rebellion got a lot of people killed, and it wasn't even a tiny bit justified; especially in light of how nice the Kaiser was to him after the baby scandal broke.
And what's Oberstein doing? He was hired to be a sneaky bastard instead of a fleet commander. He should be stopping the bad guys who only have sneaky-bastardness and no fleet! Argh!!! :mad:
Also, is anyone else watching "Gargoyle of the Yoshinagas" and hearing Ruenthal whenever Gar-kun speaks? :heh: I wonder if anyone in Japan is possibly watching both series at the same time.
-k
curious
I agree that was pretty satisfying. :D
I thought it was hard to feel sorry for
Ruenthal... his rebellion got a lot of people killed, and it wasn't even a tiny bit justified; especially in light of how nice the Kaiser was to him after the baby scandal broke.
And what's Oberstein doing? He was hired to be a sneaky bastard instead of a fleet commander. He should be stopping the bad guys who only have sneaky-bastardness and no fleet! Argh!!! :mad:
Yeah, his repressed inferiority complex at being second best finally got to him. Also his stubborn pride didn't allow him to have his loyalty called into question yet again.
Lang was conspiring with Rubinsky alone out of spite I think. Oberstein was planning to take a diplomatic trip down to Heinessen with Lang in tow to sort things out with Reuental before Reuental himself decided "if you can't beat 'em, join em" and went along with the rebellion.
I guess Reuental genuinely thought the Urvasi incident was some scheme engineered by Oberstein or Lang, since that turncoat admiral of his decided not to report his findings of the Terraist conspiracy to destabilize the empire.
I watched Legend of Galactic Heroes about half a year ago, and I think that it's quite fit to be called an anime classic. It's superlatives have been pointed out time and time again in this thread, but I have a feeling that it could have been much better than it ended up being. I rather like the stylized space battles; they weren't realistic (they were very much based on the description of land battles in Chinese literature :)), but they worked for the most part. On the other hand, I would have been way happier if they excised all of the melee combat. Likewise, I've got some reservations about the political statements made by the show (more accurately, by the author) and some of the character portrayals. Other than that though, Legend of Galactic Heroes is a good example of the potential of anime, both in quality and in tone.
I normally respect general opinion on what some people consider as their taste in anime, but LoGH is one series where if someone can't see the beauty behind the it and thinks that some "over-popular" series is a masterpiece on par or even better with this, I'd laugh at that person. People are throwing the term "best anime" and "masterpiece" around too easily.
I'm afraid that that's always going to be true. People will base their opinions on the things that are familiar to them, and if they haven't watched something like Legend of Galactic Heroes, then they can hardly take its quality into account. Also, a lot of people are only inclined to watch newer shows, and there's not much that's going to change that. Patience is often a virtue that's hard to come by. I wouldn't judge them too badly by it.
Also, is anyone else watching "Gargoyle of the Yoshinagas" and hearing Ruenthal whenever Gar-kun speaks? I wonder if anyone in Japan is possibly watching both series at the same time.
Wakamoto Norio is a very famous voice actor with a very distinctive voice, so you should be able to spot him in any number of shows. Another of his current roles is the Emperor of Britannia in Code Geass
Nightengale
2007-04-05, 02:03
Well, I'm not going to dispute the fact that Legend of Galactic Heroes could've been better. Technically, even if we take their age into account, all animes could've been better. There were parts of the series that could've been better in a more Starship Operators execution (( underrated series )), some of the show's narrative aspect could've been improved upon and some parts toned down since the reliance of the narrative storytelling is very apparent at times, especially when it was more emotional and could've just relied on various aspects of direction or storyboarding, alongside some of the minor political/background issues. But I'm not complaining for most parts. I consider it a good thing that there are shows like Legend of Galactic Heroes, which really tries to bring out an epic level in presentation of various layers.
There were parts of the series that could've been better in a more Starship Operators execution (( underrated series ))
What parts are you talking about? The political parts, combat, characters, or something else?
Nightengale
2007-04-05, 09:12
What parts are you talking about? The political parts, combat, characters, or something else?
Hmm...my memory of Starship Operators is a little bit hazy, but I do recall multiple bits of the character dynamics and the combat that made me enjoy what I saw. I can't remember jack about any political stuff.
ZeusIrae
2007-04-05, 15:24
No....non this can't be
NoOOOOOOOOOOO (long anime cry) Reuental,my poor Reuental what did they do?What did they do?:upset: :upset: The terraist will pay!
I really like Reuental,but he should have died on the battlefield serving his Kaiser not on a office desk betrayed and abandoned after a meaningless civil war.
The only part of logh I don't like personnaly is the narrator's speech.They are rather ridiculous IMO.
Hmm...my memory of Starship Operators is a little bit hazy, but I do recall multiple bits of the character dynamics and the combat that made me enjoy what I saw. I can't remember jack about any political stuff.
One of the greatest weaknesses of Legend of Galatic Heroes is its portrayal of female characters. None of them are horribly convincing, and the only one that I actually ended up liking was Katerose von Kreutzer (and that may have been because of Mitsuishi Kotono's influence). I think that this aspect would have been much better if it were more similar to Starship Operators, where the characterization was both more natural and much more appealing.
In terms of combat, Starship Operators is possibly the most realistic anime take on futuristic space combat ever made. However, I don't think that this approach would have benefited LoGH as much since the latter show relies so heavily on classical tactics and sneaky moves. Finally, I tend to prefer the way politics is tackled in Starship Operators than in LoGH. However, this may be as much a matter of personal preference than anything else.
ZeusIrae
2007-04-06, 12:26
"Finally, I tend to prefer the way politics is tackled in Starship Operators than in LoGH. However, this may be as much a matter of personal preference than anything else."
Probably but I am curious.Would you mind telling us why?
Personnaly I prefer Logh because it's more focused on the "historical" aspect of the events.
physics223
2007-04-06, 12:56
I liked the first two or three episodes of this series, but I'm going to wait until this series finishes subbing before delving into its world.
You just can't beat a lot of older series for their awesome storytelling. :)
Probably but I am curious.Would you mind telling us why?
Personnaly I prefer Logh because it's more focused on the "historical" aspect of the events.
It's mostly because I read a lot of real history books, and I find that tone used to discuss history and politics in Legend of Galactic Heroes isn't too much to my liking. It feels like there's too much editorializing going on - I prefer a more matter-of-fact approach.
Physics223, you may be in for a bit of a wait, since there are 110 episodes total. Still, it's cool that you seem to enjoy it so far - there's a lot of twists and turns yet to come. By the way, you may want to avoid this thread for a little bit since it's filled with spoilers.
zentraedi
2007-04-08, 19:51
First i have to thank Central Anime for their hard effort to translate this amazing series!!
I have a question: In the novels Yang Wenli actually dies or he was killed in the anime because of de death of his seiyuu?
Thanks!
Xellos-_^
2007-04-08, 19:57
First i have to thank Central Anime for their hard effort to translate this amazing series!!
I have a question: In the novels Yang Wenli actually dies or he was killed in the anime because of de death of his seiyuu?
Thanks!Not sure about the novel but i believed his VA die after the show.
zentraedi
2007-04-08, 20:01
Yes, you're right. My mistake.
Thanks.
Only have watched first 2 or 3 dozens of eps, don't know too much. But in novel, Yang waskilled at 8th vol. (ten vols in total, not including side stories)
From what I read on this thread, I believe it is same in both novel and anime. Yang was murdered by terraists on the way to negotiate Reinhard, right? So anime just followed the novel at this point.
panzerfan
2007-05-26, 17:19
Even the novel version of the story does the 'editorializing' of the future history. I can almost picture Mackenzie who talks about the Goldenbalm throughout the show narrate the epic showdown at Vermilion in the same fashion.
The novel version leaves an epilogue that gives more uncertainty which the anime omits. I think however that the anime would have a weaker ending if including up to the point of the novel epilogue.
Is it just me or is 106 oddly hilarious despite it's serious and foreboding theme?
Princess Royal Grunewald releases all her pent up frustration at being a long-suffering doormat and then wallflower character for 4 seasons by smashing in the face of a Terraist assassin with a heavy trophy cup. (You go, girl!)
Kessler(muttering under his breath): Pox, pox, and whatnot.
The Imperial Admirals' shocked reaction to Eisenach's single line at the end was priceless. (He can actually talk?!:twitch:).
For those of you awaiting the next episode I'm trying to get the encode right. Something went wrong twice on the encode and I'm trying to get it right. Hopefully you'll see 107 this weekend.
Heibi
Central Anime
Episode 108 was absolutely stunning and moving. It took me awhile to settle down to just type this little message.
ZeusIrae
2007-07-19, 11:40
At last it has ended,I feel a little empty but all good things have an end.I have been watching this show for two years now.It was great,and I really thank Central Anime for their awesome work.Without them I would never have discovered this masterpiece.
It's one of the best anime of all time,probably one of greatest moment of TV and a story that deserves to be called Art.
oh,and ep110 had some great line.
"Politics always takes vengeance on those who belittle it."Brilliant and so true.If only people could remember that.As entertainment, Art and reflexion on politics and history,this show is total success.
And it's almost 20 years old!!!
Otakuboy T
2007-07-19, 13:35
I hope someone starts working on the OAVs next and movies (the other subs have bad video quality)
Yep, we'll be doing those too.
Central Anime
yononaka
2007-07-19, 19:28
Many thanks to everyone at CA for subbing this!
Lately I've been suffering from anime burnout, so I've had serious trouble sticking with most of the recent offerings (mostly because of too much deja vu and thus predictability; not because I think everything new is bad and everything old was good); yet, despite its length, sticking with LoGH has presented no trouble whatsoever.:)
It may not be flawless, but it's definitely a GREAT anime in so many ways.
nicomorr
2007-07-20, 00:36
Ten years in the making huh, well done & thanks, firstly.
I've had the HK bootleg rips for all LOGH for several years and watched the actual series (1-110) through at least three times, hating those Engrish subs but loving the sprawl & grandeur. Recently watched it again using your files up to 106 I think it was then.
I have compared the video of your encodes with the HK rips & it was only after reading this thread that I understood my impressions.
At first the HK video looks more attractive, it's brighter, no, more chromatic, but in the longer-term I preferred yours.
It's that analogue superiority again - same reason that good vinyl is inherently better than CD (sampling frequency, Nyquist cut-off, high-frequency filtering, TIM you name it!).
So I really appreciate your analogue as-much-as-possible treatment of the video.
The hues are more restful, the shadings more graceful, of course there are analog artifacts but I prefer them to digital compression artifacts unless really bad. And the softer feel goes with the hand-animation style & colours .... much more classy.
I have two LD players, both Pioneer, one industrial & t'other high-end AC3 modded CLD-2950 (but has a bad bottom head so I have to turn LDs over if I use that one, bummer).
One of these days I will have to do something with my Japanese LD boxed special edition of Future Boy Conan :confused:
See you went from DivX 5 (1/2) to Xvid (3-110) - was that because of open-source? I like DivX Pro 6.6 a lot & it can encode at high bitrates very well - but proprietary code, phones home :mad: :frustrated: :eyebrow:
You really got me going with this & thanks for your 10 year mission.
Nico M :D
Thanks CA, for completing the subs of this incredible series. I look forward to seeing your subs of the OAVs and movies next. A question, will you be doing the stories in chronological order? I got the HK subs of the OAVs, their order was scrambled. At the end of an arc would be a preview of a story in the other OAV series, it was real confusing.
I also have the HK subs of the main series. What turned me off of it, aside from their crappy engrish translations, was visual inconsistency. For example, there's a scene where Yang is having a meeting in Iserlohn that was partially redone. You can tell because the table everyone is sitting at suddenly changes shape and size. Totally unacceptable.
Marjoram
2007-07-20, 07:28
Thank you, Central Anime, for all your hard work. I've been watching this amazing series for more than two years now. I've never seen anything even remotely like it - the character development, intricacies of strategy and politics, merciless slaying of favourite characters all around... Just perfect.
Now, whatever am I going to live for? ;)
Thanks CA, for completing the subs of this incredible series. I look forward to seeing your subs of the OAVs and movies next. A question, will you be doing the stories in chronological order? I got the HK subs of the OAVs, their order was scrambled. At the end of an arc would be a preview of a story in the other OAV series, it was real confusing.
I also have the HK subs of the main series. What turned me off of it, aside from their crappy engrish translations, was visual inconsistency. For example, there's a scene where Yang is having a meeting in Iserlohn that was partially redone. You can tell because the table everyone is sitting at suddenly changes shape and size. Totally unacceptable.
We'll be doing them in the order that LDs come in. I have all the scripts just gotta edit and time them and edit them..etc...
Central Anime
A belated heartfelt thanks to Central Anime for fansubbing this show. It's been a wonderful journey. 110 episodes of a brilliant anime OVA series. Truly epic. Truly awesome. Thank you.
physics223
2007-07-20, 14:07
Hmm ... now that it's done ... time to add another series to my watch-list. :)
Kaioshin Sama
2007-07-21, 00:32
If anyone is interested I'm covering the Spiral Labyrinth OVA of Legend of The Galactic Heroes on my blog at Animehistory (in my sig). I've done up to episode 2 at the moment, it's not an active project and it probably won't involve a lot of pictures given the nature of the show, but it's as detailed as I can make it, meaning hopefully very. Stop by if you are interested.
Kempis Curious
2007-07-22, 18:28
Thanks, Central Anime, I've been watching this series since the beginning.
I wonder how long it's been?
<...rummage rummage...>
:twitch: Has it been three years?
This series was a huge effort, but the story deserves it. In all likelyhood, thousands of future anime fans will be watching Central Anime's sub. It's been my pleasure to have watched each episode as they were released. :)
-k
curious
Tiberium Wolf
2007-07-29, 14:04
Ohhh... Just watched 103 eps. It's the best 3 digit series ever.
Yang Wenli death was kinda lame! For someone as careful as he was he sure was ambushed easily.
anselfir
2007-07-29, 17:00
without a doubt themost intelligent show out there.
im impressed
Spirit Chicken!
2007-07-29, 17:51
Many thanks Central, this will be one of the most impressive fansub accomplishments of all time once all that is LOGH is wrapped up along with the main 110 eps. Such a saga...
anselfir
2007-08-06, 23:19
After 40ish epis, the level of the show turns south dramatically. yang wenli turns into a walking infomercial which is not mediocre, a far cry from his brilliance during the mock trial/investigation
LOGH Gaiden 2: Meitantei Reinhardt to Kircheis. :eyebrow:
DragoonKain3
2008-02-28, 01:01
Finally got the time to finish this monster of a classic.
Again, thanks CA for the subs. As I said in other place, the HK rips aren't THAT bad, as you still get 90% of the storyline per episode. Only problem I found was that by the time you get to around the 20th episode, you don't know what the hell is going on anymore as that 10% you lose every episode gets compounded as you go further along the story.
So yes CA, very grateful for the subs, as the others just didn't do the series even a slightest bit of justice.
As for the episode itself, if you like watching those real life historical documenteries of war battles, then this is the show for you. Much of the tactics used are tactics that have been used in real life war. It's also of interest to those who's interested in types of governing, as the question of whether or not the best autocracy is better than the worst democracy comes up quite a few times. Do keep in mind though that because sometimes it feels like history, even the ending does not truly feel like an ending as a lot of loose ends aren't resolved. But the same can be said of real life history, no?
Touches a lot of other themes as well, like terrorism and cultism, and whether or not the lives of the minority is worth sacrifing to save the lives of the majorrity. Speaking of cults, I do find it quite ironic that even though they have 'supposedly' broke free from the Earth, the imperials are pretty much following the Norse myths, and that the alliance names their ships from Greek mythology lol.
This show should also appeal to those who like courage and heroism, as unlike most anime, 'The Legend of the Galactic Heroes' is an apt a title to describe this show as any could be. Reinhart in particular has so much Gar going for him.
Then again, this show might have just TOO MUCH Gar, as the female characters serve almost no purpose in the show. That is,equality rights hasn't seemed to advanced in that universe, considering it's supposed to be set god knows how many millenia after today. I mean, no female commanding officers even in the alliance of free planets? Heck, the females who does become politicians serve no impact in the plot whatsoever, and do very little at all.
Keep in mind the novels were written in Japan almost two and a half decades ago, so its understandble. Just wanted to get the point accross that to enter with that mindset, as I'm sure feminists would be offended by the show.
Regardless, this series is just pure win in terms of story telling and character development. This is the Space Opera that Star Wars no Star Trek would never be.
Series Grade: A+ (A Classic in every sense of the word)
That said about this being not kind to feminists, I find it ironic that Fraulein beats every other female character in 'grrl! power' combined, considering she's from the Empire. Then again, that's not saying much lol.
At the very least though, I loved Lohengramm and Fraulein's relationship, as you get to see it evolve from when they first met till the very end. And I still can't get over the fact that those two shows more affection to each other when calling each other their respectful titles (Kaiserine and Heika) than when they try to call each other by first name.
And of course, Karin scores a TON of moe points for me ever since her first appearance. Definitely a much more likeable Souryuu Asuka Langeley, and can be considered as the predecessor of sorts of her.
Xellos-_^
2008-04-01, 14:22
been bugging me for a while as the 2 main characters reminds of some histroical figure but i finally figure who the historical equalivent of Yang and Reinhart is.
Yang = Yue Fei
A wiki link for people who don't know who Yue Fei is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yue_Fei
Reinhart = Alexander the Great
That's a great catch on Yue Fei! I thought that the Reinhart comparison to Alexander was sort of obvious, but I've wracked my head trying to figure out who'd match well with Yang Wen Li. By the way, another way to view the antagonistic relationship between him and Reinhart would be comparing them to Uesugi Kenshin and Takeda Shingen.
Xellos-_^
2008-04-02, 11:23
That's a great catch on Yue Fei! I thought that the Reinhart comparison to Alexander was sort of obvious, but I've wracked my head trying to figure out who'd match well with Yang Wen Li. By the way, another way to view the antagonistic relationship between him and Reinhart would be comparing them to Uesugi Kenshin and Takeda Shingen.
I really should have caught it sooner myslef as both Yang and Yue Fei represent the concept of Stupid Loyalty.
Talking about historical figure for Yang, how about Hannibal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal)? I can see a lot similarities between the two, especially in military tactics. Those tactics Hannibal used against Roman armies, most obviously in the battle of Cannae, are quite like what Yang would use.
Xellos-_^
2008-04-03, 12:22
Talking about historical figure for Yang, how about Hannibal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal)? I can see a lot similarities between the two, especially in military tactics. Those tactics Hannibal used against Roman armies, most obviously in the battle of Cannae, are quite like what Yang would use.
Interesting choice on Hannibal, although i still think Yue Fei makes a better choice as both were betryal by thier own country.
Hannibal was characterized by two main aspects: great tactics yet ineffectual strategy, and losing his most important battle - Zama. Yang Wenli, on the other hand, had a very good grasp of both strategy and tactics, but he was given over to sentimentality, and he felt bound to uphold the principles of his country even when his own government had abandoned them. This fits with Yue Fei much better than Hannibal.
Most of the tactics shown in Legend of Galactic Heroes have their origins in battles (real and fictional) from Ancient to Napoleonic periods. I'd venture that more of it is based on Eastern sources like the Sengoku Era or Romance of the Three Kingdoms than on Western sources.
I must make my apology for not explicitly explaining my choice in the previous post. I didn't intend to nominate Hannibal as a better choice than Yue Fei nor I had tried to think of one. Suggesting a neat historical equal for Yang like what has been done on Reinhart with Alexander the Great contradicts my interpretation on Yang. I have considered Reinhart as a symbol of human instinct for taking, and, conversely, Yang as a symbol for the responsibility for giving (let's ignoring his strong passions on balck tea and brandy). In other words, he is made for the author's representative in the story, hence, be assigned a role to think and tell author's thoughts on military, politics, history, and responsibilities of individuals and groups of individuals to whole human beings. The combination of his role as a thinker and the role as a successful military leader makes it impossible, at least in my opinion, to find him a real counterpart in history.
However hard to find one, there can be many. I suggest that Yang is mixture of many historical figures. If you look at one aspect of him, there may be some with resemblance on this aspect, but if you look Yang as a whole, there shall be none.
I do agree your opinions that Yue Fei is the best choice for strong loyalty and betrayal from the government the loyalty is giving to. And I also agree 4Tran that the story used more Eastern sources than Western, especially considering Yoshiki Tanaka, the author of the novel this anime is based on, is known to have a strong interest in China's ancient histories. He has written many stories (most are short stories) based on ancient China, and those are not just limited within the era of Three Kingdoms. And one of them (a novella titled 紅塵 in Japanese) is set after death of Yue Fei with Liang Hongyu, the wife of Han Shizhong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Shizhong)who is another well-known general in Yue Fei's time, as a third-person narrator. The life and death of Yue Fei is one of main focus in that story.
Back to Hannibal, I have said I think it's very hard to find a historical equal for Yang, so I can only draw a very vague parallel between them. Agree or not is really up to you. If dividing Hannibal lives into two part, the turning point, needless to say, is the battle of Zama. Before that, just like Yang, he enjoyed a reputation for never losing (major battles), but couldn't take Rome because of limited resources. In that situation, Hannibal couldn't retreat or he would be welcomed as a national traitor by his government. It's almost same as if Yang is told during the Grand Invasion to Empire that he must capture Odin or just die in trying (no "escape" allowed as Yang actually does). I strongly believe that if Carthage provided him proper resources and men after the battle of Cannae, the history would be totally different.
When Scipio Africanus counter-invaded, Hannibal was called back to defend (Yang does the decision himself). Both Hannibal and Yang were the last hopes of their nations, but both failed to stop invaders, which led to downfalls of their nations. It may seem different since Hannibal lost his battle and Yang won all battles, but at end it really makes no difference. Yang's assignment is not to prove he is a better commander over Reinhart but to capture or kill him in battlefield. He fails to do that and it doesn't matter if he is unable or just government orders him not to. And after surrender, both of them had lived a peaceful life for a while and then were force into exile.
Legend of the Galactic Heroes sounded kind of boring to me from the snyopsis I read. Just two guys duking it out for whatever reason.
Wow, you are dismissing LoGH, one of the most well known (if not THE definite) sci-fi classic in Japan and across East-Asia on the basis of a ... synopsis?
Oh, my heart, it aches, it aches!!
- Tak
Legend of the Galactic Heroes sounded kind of boring to me from the snyopsis I read. Just two guys duking it out for whatever reason.
Boring? This is the last comment I expect to hear about Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Please check it out, sir, I'm sure you'll forget whatever the snyposis you have read. It's a masterpiece.
Boring? This is the last comment I expect to hear about Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Please check it out, sir, I'm sure you'll forget whatever the snyposis you have read. It's a masterpiece.
And if he still doesn't like it afterwards, we should throw him to Abh hell.
- Tak
Boring? This is the last comment I expect to hear about Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Please check it out, sir, I'm sure you'll forget whatever the snyposis you have read. It's a masterpiece.
is this good ? sorry for the off topic.
It sounded gay what with the two genius (hate geniuses) head-honchos "respecting one another", not to mention how enormous the series is with 160+ episodes to slog through. Combined with past experiences of trying to find good quality downloads of 80s era anime, it's not something I'll be able to commit to lightly.
Why is it 'gay'? As if the concept of a genius single-handedly creating an empire is an original concept. And its not even about the concept, its how they've done it, and their involvements in the twists, the intrigues and the plots that contributed to their success.
As for quality download? Well, its actually widely available, you can even download it off Animesuki! And the quality is not bad at all.
Besides, this is has a large cast, its an opportunity to listen to some of your favorite VAs.
is this good ? sorry for the off topic.
In written form, it is my favorite novel of all time. In anime form, maybe not so much, but up there with Macross (if you must force a comparison).
- Tak
Wesley84
2008-05-14, 21:16
Why is it 'gay'?
It's Japanese in origin. Wondering if it's gay goes without question.
As if the concept of a genius single-handedly creating an empire is an original concept. And its not even about the concept, its how they've done it, and their involvements in the twists, the intrigues and the plots that contributed to their success.
How would you compare it to say...Code Geass?
As for quality download? Well, its actually widely available, you can even download it off Animesuki! And the quality is not bad at all.
That's good. Both Dirty Pair and Saint Seiya used cameras recording in front of a TV set.
Besides, this is has a large cast, its an opportunity to listen to some of your favorite VAs.
Everyone enjoys a spot the seiyuu game.
In written form, it is my favorite novel of all time. In anime form, maybe not so much, but up there with Macross (if you must force a comparison).
Maybe I should just read it then? I'd rather be on my bed than sitting in front of a computer.
It's Japanese in origin. Wondering if it's gay goes without question.
HA!
How would you compare it to say...Code Geass?
Thats like comparing apples to oranges. Although LoGH is nowhere near as absurd. There is no supernatural element, no giant mecha, no angle shots, just plain-old human nature.
Maybe I should just read it then? I'd rather be on my bed than sitting in front of a computer.
Its printed in traditional Chinese and Japanese, no English. Good luck finding one online.
- Tak (I on the other hand, purchased the entire set of 10 novels)
Wesley84
2008-05-14, 22:15
Thats like comparing apples to oranges. Although LoGH is nowhere near as absurd. There is no supernatural element, no giant mecha, no angle shots, just plain-old human nature.
Good. I want less "Kukuku. *BA-ZING DEUS EX MACHINA*" and more "Let's do something that will actually work." War should be less about the people you meet and screw over, and more about killing the enemy.
Its printed in traditional Chinese and Japanese, no English. Good luck finding one online.
- Tak (I on the other hand, purchased the entire set of 10 novels)
Ah, Twelve Kingdoms kind of dealy eh? Pity.
Ah, Twelve Kingdoms kind of dealy eh? Pity.
It is somewhat comparable to the 12 Kingdoms in terms of scope. LoGH will also challenge our concepts of existing political systems, and despite this novel being written some 20 years prior, it sometimes sound like a dead-on criticism of today's world.
Definitely more focus than 12 Kingdoms though. Besides, the 12 Kingdoms anime gave everyone the wrong impression, because the actual saga is far longer and far more extensive and not focused on one character alone. Although the 12 Kingdoms is an exceptionally written epic.
- Tak
Blue Reverie
2008-05-15, 00:05
Regarding LOTGH I've not watched all of it (Yet) but it was quite enjoyable. If it wasn't for the fact I think it's probably against the rules, I'd link to an video of the first major battle in the first two episodes of LOTGH, the Astate Encounter to see if it's the kind of think you guys would like.
Anyways, as much as I'd love to debate the merits of LOTGH it's a tangent that is VASTLY off topic for this discussion thread.
is this good ? sorry for the off topic.
Yes, LoGH is a pretty good show - almost regardless of one's personal preferences. That said, how much (and how) one enjoys it can come down to familiarity with history and politics. Also, contrary to what you may have heard, Legend of Galactic Heroes isn't really all that realistic - for example, one of the main combat tactics is for heavy infantry to don armor and attack using halberds or axes.
How would you compare it to say...Code Geass?
I'd say that LoGH is quite a bit better than Code Geass, but there really isn't a whole lot of basis for comparison other than the fact that they both talk about politics. LoGH doesn't have any magical battles, and it doesn't have quite as convoluted plot, but it also lacks strongly characterized female characters as well. They do both have a fair bit of plot-convenient contrivances though.
I guess it depends on what you like and dislike about Code Geass.
Ah, Twelve Kingdoms kind of dealy eh? Pity.
The Twelve Kingdoms novels are (slowly) being released in North America, but the LoGH novels aren't, so it's harder to come across a translated version.
It is somewhat comparable to the 12 Kingdoms in terms of scope. LoGH will also challenge our concepts of existing political systems, and despite this novel being written some 20 years prior, it sometimes sound like a dead-on criticism of today's world.
In terms of comparison, LoGH is probably most similar to the Romance of Three Kingdoms, in terms of anime, there really isn't anything particularly similar, but Crest of the Stars does cover the same kind of territory.
I admit to not being particularly impressed with the way Legend of Galactic Heroes comments on different political systems. The way the arguments for them are presented doesn't really do the subject justice.
Otakuboy T
2008-06-12, 22:59
http://gineiden-game.jp/
They're making a LoGH RTS. God, I hope someone does a fan translation. :eyespin:
ragnarokr
2008-08-05, 14:13
After Touch C-a is giving us another DVD version of their previous works. This time it is none other than Legend of Galactic Heroes.
Thanks again C-A.
Glad to see people still like LOGH and Touch. I will endeavor to keep a good pace so we don't take years to get them out.
Count me among the people glad that you are putting DvD version od LOGH Heibi :).
Haohmaru
2008-08-05, 16:45
Awesome! Now I can start watching it. First time for me.
Awesome! Now I can start watching it. First time for me.
Working on getting 3 and 4 ready for a nit pick edit this weekend.
Oh nice news. I was about to start off that 20GB torrent, but seems like I now have another reason to wait for a while more.
ragnarokr
2008-08-07, 16:48
Oh nice news. I was about to start off that 20GB torrent, but seems like I now have another reason to wait for a while more.
and the fact that you're watching them little by little gives you a special flavour. :D
Tytania is going to be made into anime form...
Make yourself ready to that, all LoGH fans.
Tytania is going to be made into anime form...
Make yourself ready to that, all LoGH fans.
I wish they would remake and complete the animation of Heroic Legend of Arslan at some point and not leave it half-cocked.
BTW, there's a second novel series now, isn't there?
I wish they would remake and complete the animation of Heroic Legend of Arslan at some point and not leave it half-cocked.
BTW, there's a second novel series now, isn't there?I have a mixed feeling on this. I am indifferent between Tytania and Arslan (get to admit Arslan was done too crappy).
It's another space opera from Tanaka. But as you must know, the author is extremely lazy. I guess he must break a record to get this 20-years-have-been-spent-but-only-3-vols-have-been-completed story animated.
If you mean a second novel series set in same universe of LoGH, there is not and won't be.
I need my sweet Katerose roaring, "death to the lazy writer."
I have a mixed feeling on this. I am indifferent between Tytania and Arslan (get to admit Arslan was done too crappy).
It's another space opera from Tanaka. But as you must know, the author is extremely lazy. I guess he must break a record to get this 20-years-have-been-spent-but-only-3-vols-have-been-completed story animated.
If you mean a second novel series set in same universe of LoGH, there is not and won't be.
I need my sweet Katerose roaring, "death to the lazy writer."
I mean a second Arslan novel series. Arslan is 7 volumes, followed by another series (incomplete last I heard) right?
cindialai
2009-01-04, 22:38
i know it's quite old this thread but wonder if anyone can help answer my question:
i just finish watching the 110 ova... i didn't get the negotiation at the end of the series. Did they have to give back heinessen ? or do they still have control over it?
and my second question in which order is the series?
1. golden wing
2. ova 1
3. ova2
4. movie 1
5. movie2
6. the 110 series?
is that the right order or
They got exactly what was discussed. Reinhard promised Heinessen to them in exchange for Iserlohn. The will become simliar to Phezzan but be the only place where the leaders are elected.
cindialai
2009-01-05, 11:58
They got exactly what was discussed. Reinhard promised Heinessen to them in exchange for Iserlohn. The will become simliar to Phezzan but be the only place where the leaders are elected.
so it's not considered imperial colony then? so reinhard kind of failed at the end with unification of the universe?
If they swear alligence to the Empire, they are still an Imperial Colony even if they elect their own planetary rulers.
Kamui4356
2009-01-05, 12:39
They'd be a semi-autonomous region. They're part of the empire, yet allowed to govern their own affairs for the most part.
Basically, they are going to be left alone. Since they don't pose a threat to the Empire.
If they had as many fleets a they had started with they might be considered a threat.(Plus they could have defended themselves in the first place) But since the "re-elect me I'm waging war against the evil Empire" politicians wasted their fleets on a "Great Crusade" that will never happen.
And with strong leaders like Jessica and Julian, they'll be a peace with the Empire for a while.
Xellos-_^
2009-01-05, 16:11
Basically, they are going to be left alone. Since they don't pose a threat to the Empire.
If they had as many fleets a they had started with they might be considered a threat.(Plus they could have defended themselves in the first place) But since the "re-elect me I'm waging war against the evil Empire" politicians wasted their fleets on a "Great Crusade" that will never happen.
And with strong leaders like Jessica and Julian, they'll be a peace with the Empire for a while.
until the next corrupt politician gets voted into office.
stormy001_M1A2
2009-01-05, 22:02
To me, the story is over when Lohengramm dies in the end. I think it could be his biggest regret not dying while fighting his most worthy enemy, Admiral Yang Wen Li. He resented the fact he could not fulfill his destiny as greatest warrior in galaxy since Yang died early.
cindialai
2009-01-06, 11:46
by the way which ova or ep or anything says how Lohengramm got his ship?
cindialai
2009-01-08, 22:44
i totally forgot which ep was the one with the layer defense strategy by reinhard?
Doing a wee bit of thread necromancy here...
Since I started watching Tytania (and found out about something that's a little disheartening to someone like myself (i.e., one who's a complete sap for the romance side of stories, no matter how small they are) ), and reading the thread on it, people are saying that this series is far better. And since subs of it are starting to come out, plus the fact that I have a thing for space operas, I assume this is probably worth watching. However, before I get into this, I do have to spoil myself a little bit and ask a couple of relatively minor questions (thread necromancy for minor questions... oh well :p)
first off, despite how epic this is, does it have what can be termed a 'good end'? And my second minor and rather ridiculous question is, outside of the stuff dealing with Reinhard (since I already spoiled myself there), how many LI's get killed off?
I know it was said that something like a ton of characters get killed off in the end, and I'm not exactly too fond of Character Deaths (unless they're really evil bastards who deserve it)
so, if someone familiar with this series can answer these... I'll probably watch it anyways, but I want to be prepared anyways
And since subs of it are starting to come out, plus the fact that I have a thing for space operas, I assume this is probably worth watching.
It is very worth watching, and ALL of it (minus the last 16 side story episodes) is out subbed, just mostly from laserdisc vs. DVD. While the plotting and story are amazing (see below), the animation is not one of the selling points despite having a remarkably large and unique set of character designs.
first off, despite how epic this is,
It is extremely epic, hence spanning 110 episodes + movies + prequel OVAs. The character writing is infinitely superior to Tytania's, and virtually every character is given the depth to be interesting and sympathetic regardless of which side you inevitably prefer.
does it have what can be termed a 'good end'?
Unlike everything else Tanaka's ever written, the main LoGH story is completely resolved and while it leaves questions open for the aftermath there is nothing which you will be cursing over in terms of loose plot threads.
how many LI's get killed off?
I know it was said that something like a ton of characters get killed off in the end, and I'm not exactly too fond of Character Deaths (unless they're really evil bastards who deserve it)
There are over 600 named characters in LoGH. Only around 10-12 of the 60-75 or so major characters (you get nametages to help you out) make it from episode 1 to the end of episode 110 and live. This is war and there are a realistic number of casualties. Seriously, though, don't let that stop you from watching: the series is an absolute masterpiece provided you get through the very slow first four episodes.
I'll probably watch it anyways, but I want to be prepared anyways
You SHOULD watch it no matter what, and nothing will prepare you for Yeah, like I'm going to tell you. so don't fret about it.
curse you and that fake spoiler bracket...
oh well... as soon as I get more HD space cleared (I have WAAAY too much anime sitting around on my HD that I need to watch...something I'm currently working on...), I'm getting the episodes. And whatever you're hiding from me... well, the good news is that I usually get over the blacker things in a show about a week after I see the episode(or episodes, if I'm burning through stuff as I usually do with the darker things)
again, my biggest problem here is getting the HD space, and then seeing how many of the episodes are subbed
ragnarokr
2009-03-30, 05:36
You SHOULD watch it no matter what, and nothing will prepare you for Yeah, like I'm going to tell you. so don't fret about it.
:heh::heh::heh:
and then seeing how many of the episodes are subbed
C-A anime, have released all the 110 episodes provided from Laser Discs originals, now they are doing DVD versions. If you start to watch the series and are addicted to it and can't wait for the DVD versions to end, just download the LD versions meanwhile.
:heh::heh::heh:
C-A anime, have released all the 110 episodes provided from Laser Discs originals, now they are doing DVD versions. If you start to watch the series and are addicted to it and can't wait for the DVD versions to end, just download the LD versions meanwhile.
On that note, I've started work on the DVD for 17-20. Though, since I'm going to Tokyo tomorrow for a week, I won't be progress on it till I get back. Here's our torrent site for LOGH. I recommend downloading the DVD versions then go on to the LD versions. http://a.scarywater.net/ca/
Enojy
And whatever you're hiding from me... well, the good news is that I usually get over the blacker things in a show about a week after I see the episode(or episodes, if I'm burning through stuff as I usually do with the darker things)
The one thing I'm loving is that both you and ragnarokr seem to think I'm only referring to a singular event...
I'm well aware that shit is going to hit the fan multiple times... but still, it's epicness should keep things in check. Unless it turns out to be like TTGL
The one thing I'm loving is that both you and ragnarokr seem to think I'm only referring to a singular event...
SHHHHHHhhhh...
:D
*makes huge note to self to find time to eliminate enough anime to definitely make room for this series ASAP*
I hate it when people hide spoilers from me... yes, I'm a spoiler whore
ragnarokr
2009-03-31, 03:55
The one thing I'm loving is that both you and ragnarokr seem to think I'm only referring to a singular event...
Don't worry about me, I've already watched this marvelous series. And I have to say that even without getting on the end it was already one of my all time favorite series.
I hate it when people hide spoilers from me... yes, I'm a spoiler whore
Relax. You'll save the best parts for when you actually watch them and taste them better that way, believe me.
BTW Heibi, enjoy yourself on your travel.
C-A anime, have released all the 110 episodes provided from Laser Discs originals, now they are doing DVD versions.
I was striken down by that. I JUST got all the LD episodes and burned them, and they immediately started doing DVD ? WTF people ?! At least you could have given a warning ! Arrrrgghh ! I have no words for what they did.
ragnarokr
2009-03-31, 04:06
Don't sweat it, DVDs are cheap these days, a lot of people did the same, me included and We're not complaining. At least they are doing the stuff, or would you be happier if that would happen some years from now or wouldn't happen at all?
I was striken down by that. I JUST got all the LD episodes and burned them, and they immediately started doing DVD ? WTF people ?! At least you could have given a warning ! Arrrrgghh ! I have no words for what they did.
Well, if you read OUR forums you would've known. Sorry for having tried to improve our quality.:rolleyes:
Don't worry about me, I've already watched this marvelous series. And I have to say that even without getting on the end it was already one of my all time favorite series.
Relax. You'll save the best parts for when you actually watch them and taste them better that way, believe me.
BTW Heibi, enjoy yourself on your travel.
The shopping starts in T-minus 5 hours. Gotta look for the Miniature LOGH ship collection with the Barbarossa. As well as tons of other things.
ragnarokr
2009-04-28, 16:30
To revive this thread, that was almost forgotten on page 6 or 7...
I rewatched episode 12 of gaiden Spiral Labyrinth and that was a sad episode, yet beautiful as well
To revive this thread, that was almost forgotten on page 6 or 7...
I rewatched episode 12 of gaiden Spiral Labyrinth and that was a sad episode, yet beautiful as well
My editor is preparing 13-14 for timing.
I was striken down by that. I JUST got all the LD episodes and burned them, and they immediately started doing DVD ? WTF people ?! At least you could have given a warning ! Arrrrgghh ! I have no words for what they did.
Well, if you read OUR forums you would've known. Sorry for having tried to improve our quality.:rolleyes:
Just uploaded DVD versions of 17-18. BTW, if you didn't know this, we completed the LD versions more than a year ago. So this wasn't a big surprise to most. I only recently got the DVDs in Tokyo last year.
The LD versions have been up in batch form for nearly 2 years. If you wish to be in the loop on our doings, please visit our forum.
Kempis Curious
2009-06-29, 22:33
Hi guys, I got adventurous and commissioned a Free Planets-style leather jacket. I got the idea from someone on an old logh fan site. Say hi if you see me at Anime expo this week:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3673430103_3b696ed40b.jpg
Me and my balcony. Suck in that gut, you're in uniform! ^_^
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2478/3674238600_e4c35775d3.jpg
Unfortunately, the jacket looks better with me not in it. -_- I'll probably wear it with the collar open most of the time, it's going to be hot July 2nd-5th. The scarf will probably be out and loose like how that red-headed pilot Oliver Poplan wore it. I'll tuck it in and look nice for the masquerade ball, that's what the mask is for too.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3375/3673430499_da4f6707f6.jpg
Here's the back. Note the strap and button, that was part of the uniform in the anime. Also the shoulder straps and standie-up collar came out good too, as well as the vertical pocket on the front.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3674239912_38e67070c7.jpg
One of the patches on the arm. Not really LoGH... five points to whomever can name the anime it's really from. ^_^
-k
curious
ragnarokr
2009-07-01, 18:23
Nice cosplay. :)
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