PCIP - SOPA/PIPA All over again [Archive]

Random32

2012-01-21, 00:30

Not that I think that Hollywood has gotten the message that we are going to drag them into the 21st century whether they like it or not, but there are yet more threats to internet freedom in America and the world. Though, SOPA/PIPA have been sufficiently demolished.

PCIP is Protecting Children from Internet Pornographers Act.
Seems like Lamar and friends have found a new excuse to erect the Great Firewall of America.

Thus, the fight for freedom isn't over.

its a bit old, but theatlantic has something on PCIP
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/08/the-legislation-that-could-kill-internet-privacy-for-good/242853/

EDIT: fixed name, sorry.

speedyexpress48

2012-01-21, 00:45

It's still total bullshit, but not nearly as bad as SOPA/PIPA on the surface. Still, I hope people can oppose this with the same force that they opposed SOPA/PIPA with.

Hasumi

2012-01-21, 00:53

It's still total bullshit, but not nearly as bad as SOPA/PIPA on the surface. Still, I hope people can oppose this with the same force that they opposed SOPA/PIPA with.

And that's exactly what they want people to think. :heh:

Random32

2012-01-21, 00:55

Its worse than SOPA/PIPA imho. Its basically SOPA with find/replace pirates to pedophiles, then in addition allows the government to monitor everything we are doing big brother style on a whim.

I hope people can get behind killing it as much as they did SOPA/PIPA. I hope that defending pedophiles instead of pirates won't make a difference.

solomon

2012-01-21, 01:09

I don't think it will.

Unless you were very young and/or in tune with technology, I am not sure how much traction the SOPA/PIPA fight got with Joe Public, especially older folks.

Now this is easier to sell, the whole "save the children" thing that Vexx always talks about is always a good rallying point, even for potentially flawed legislation.

speedyexpress48

2012-01-21, 01:16

Demongod86

2012-01-21, 01:29

I suppose a spoonful of sugar makes the poison go down. Well, at least they're being shameless and brazen about it.

This too will burn.

Marcus H.

2012-01-21, 01:49

"Protect the children, they are our only hope!"

Well, they have a point, unless the issue involves irresponsible parents who carelessly allow their children to venture "forbidden terrain" in the Internet.

Unfortunately, with "children" at stake here, this might have a higher chance of getting passed than SOPA/PIPA (rust in pieces).

Come on, America. You have bigger concerns to deal with rather than putting roadblocks on the Internet (of all places).

Kokukirin

2012-01-21, 02:11

Oh US of A, why are you so good at making terrible laws (and forcing others to adopt similar versions of them).

Kyuu

2012-01-21, 04:03

Persistent little buggers, aren't they?

SaintessHeart

2012-01-21, 06:25

Anonymous loves lolis, right? :heh:

Marik

2012-01-21, 08:00

This planet sucks..... I believe that some people are just waking up with the thought of how to mess up our life more than it is.

Dhomochevsky

2012-01-21, 08:06

The guys who come up with those names are really creative. But they should think about protecting our children from Aliens too, not just Predators.

Kyuu

2012-01-21, 08:20

This planet sucks..... I believe that some people are just waking up with the thought of how to mess up our life more than it is.

I do this on a daily basis...

;.;.;.;.;.;.;.;

Of course, better to get angry and fight (in ways non-violent). For a common (and cowardly) person like m'self -- the Internet has been a huge tool for that. Of course, y'don't need me to say that. :heh:

Kameruka

2012-01-21, 08:32

They killed Megaupload, what's next? Fileserve? Rapidshare? Mediafire?

Arturia Polaris

2012-01-21, 09:30

Wow, are you serious? PROTECTING the CHILDREN will be a big drum in passing this whole legislation which allows the government to store basically everything you ever did on the internet, for 18 months past...

The ramifications involve = Finding political enemies, being able to blackmail people, finding dissidents...

If X googled: "Occupy New York" the poor bum could be immediately blacklisted into a group of people who have PROBABLY gone to the occupy movements.

What is this... I don't even...

Hasumi

2012-01-21, 10:23

They killed Megaupload, what's next? Fileserve? Rapidshare? Mediafire?

No no no, if they do that I'll have to use torrents...:uhoh:

TigerII

2012-01-21, 10:43

This WILL pass. Anytime children are involved, it always passes. And yes, the file storing sites are going to disappear one by one, because what they do is already covered in the 1999 Millennium law.

Tong

2012-01-21, 11:56

Oh man, if this passes every America "Enemy" will so exploit that.

Rising Dragon

2012-01-21, 13:07

We're going to need to find the contents of the bill and compare it to the old PIPA/SOPA bills. And if they match way too much, we'll just have to make people aware of it.

Arturia Polaris

2012-01-21, 13:14

We're going to need to find the contents of the bill and compare it to the old PIPA/SOPA bills. And if they match way too much, we'll just have to make people aware of it.

The thing is that this isn't a way to prosecute people. This is a way to keep EVERYONE's internet history for 18 months past, in an attempt to find child molesters. Effectively giving the government control over 18 months of history of everyone, is a potential disaster.

If you google anything you could easily be blacklisted. For example imagine someone hitting google to find something with "al qaeda" and bam, you get blacklisted and the next thing you know is the FBI is knocking your door down, on the way to guantanamo.

I'm worried that we might one day wake up in 1984

TigerII

2012-01-21, 13:23

Oh man, if this passes every America "Enemy" will so exploit that.

I do find Humorous how the US criticizes China and Iran for having censored net, yet it is doing the same thing.

rip!

2012-01-21, 13:25

This WILL pass. Anytime children are involved, it always passes. And yes, the file storing sites are going to disappear one by one, because what they do is already covered in the 1999 Millennium law.

You're not quite the optimistic, are you? :p

But yeah this was quite a play of cards, like most things the government do. Inserting a way to having control over the internet flux under the name of 'children pornography' is indeed the way to fool most unaware people. And I think they'll put a good explanation about it, like how children pornography is bad, and about the molesters.. I hope no one bites it.

Arturia Polaris

2012-01-21, 13:28

Its a great tactical decision. It'll make people who oppose the law immediately branded "child molester" by the below average IQ american citizens, which admitedly are a lot. It'll take a LOT of campaigning to bring this law down.

1984 here we come

Dhomochevsky

2012-01-21, 14:01

So this time you are only screwing over U.S. citizens and leave the rest of the world alone.
Phew...
Oh well, you will still end up giving our guys here ideas. They are trying to get something like that for years now. Until now, I think the main reason it did not fly was, that the ISPs don't feel like spending money to implement this.

Xellos-_^

2012-01-21, 14:11

Arturia Polaris

2012-01-21, 14:18

Joseph McCarthy is alive and well.

You Are a Red

Thou are a witch! The devil is attacking me through you! Make it stop!

(Salem anyone?)

Lost Cause

2012-01-21, 14:32

Arturia Polaris

2012-01-21, 14:39

I don't think this this version will fly either. The fact that they will try to wrap it up as some sort of Child Protection Act and it will find some supporters who either don't understand or realize what it really stands for, it's been my experience of late that most people are getting VERY fed up with "big government" trying to micro manage their lives!
So even though Rosie, and Oprah will tout it as a saving of our society from pediophiles, child porn and such, I truly believe that "Average Joe and JoAnn" will see thru the smoke screen. It all just depends on how well they "spin" it to us as too who swallows it!
This is one of those times when the youth of America (and us old farts who don't like government BS) can actually teach the "sheeple" and uninformed about this!

Then again, the same people were trying to pass a law to destroy the internet. They don't really know how it all works, and someone behind the scenes with a personal agenda, tries to push these acts through congress. I just hope that we turn the fans full blast and clear all this smoke to reveal the enemy.

And the fans are just normal people raising awareness

Xellos-_^

2012-01-21, 14:57

I don't think this this version will fly either. The fact that they will try to wrap it up as some sort of Child Protection Act and it will find some supporters who either don't understand or realize what it really stands for, it's been my experience of late that most people are getting VERY fed up with "big government" trying to micro manage their lives!
So even though Rosie, and Oprah will tout it as a saving of our society from pediophiles, child porn and such, I truly believe that "Average Joe and JoAnn" will see thru the smoke screen. It all just depends on how well they "spin" it to us as too who swallows it!
This is one of those times when the youth of America (and us old farts who don't like government BS) can actually teach the "sheeple" and uninformed about this!

you are a commie!!
you are a commie!!
you are a commie!!
you are a commie!!
you are a commie!!

Solafighter

2012-01-21, 14:58

They killed Megaupload, what's next? Fileserve? Rapidshare? Mediafire?

SOPA, you.....->http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GjafuChw3bI#t=11s

speedyexpress48

2012-01-21, 15:07

Eh, I get it now.

So...

If say a 10-year girl gets caught doing...something, then she is automatically a child molester even though her kind is what child molesters target in the first place.

It's a win. I'm sold! :rolleyes:

Then again, unless you happen to hit only the more sane states (West Coast and other Western states, parts of the Midwest (Chicago), parts of the south (Houston, Atlanta, Miami), and parts of the Northeast (Boston, NYC, Philly, Pittsburgh) you would think America is pretty much insane.

Strange Chameleon

2012-01-21, 15:53

I guess I have to call and write to my senator for every new bill that comes out in the foreseeable future. So many new bills to take away our rights and not enough to protect them.

speedyexpress48

2012-01-21, 16:23

I guess I have to call and write to my senator for every new bill that comes out in the foreseeable future. So many new bills to take away our rights and not enough to protect them.

Or maybe if you have the skills, maybe just decide to run for Congress. Hey, we can dream :heh:

Kamui4356

2012-01-21, 16:29

We're going to need to find the contents of the bill and compare it to the old PIPA/SOPA bills. And if they match way too much, we'll just have to make people aware of it.

You make this sound like it's difficult. 5 minutes in google, and the only reason it took so long is because the OP gave the wrong name. It's the Protecting Children From Internet Pornographers Act of 2011. Protecting Children From Internet Predators Act was a bill from 1997. ;)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1981

Note that I didn't read it before posting it.

Solafighter

2012-01-21, 17:18

lol

OUlQGdP7Wow

Dhomochevsky

2012-01-21, 17:45

Small problem with that vid:
If it's not illegal in the UK, then you cannot extradite someone to the UK and get them locked up for it there. The US is the one with the messed up laws in this case, thats why abducted people only move towards there, never away (the iron bars are in the way).

Jaden

2012-01-21, 18:19

I don't understand why the UK gives accused people up to the US when there isn't even a case of dual criminality and the crime in question is akin to petty theft...

Random32

2012-01-21, 18:54

You make this sound like it's difficult. 5 minutes in google, and the only reason it took so long is because the OP gave the wrong name. It's the Protecting Children From Internet Pornographers Act of 2011. Protecting Children From Internet Predators Act was a bill from 1997. ;)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1981

Note that I didn't read it before posting it.

Sorry about that... Should proofread more often.

NeoChan

2012-01-21, 19:10

PCIP is Protecting Children from Internet Pornographers Act.

I don't mind acts that aims to protect children so the ACT should be rechecked for "unwanted insertions" in the act as it is being put up....

The exaggerated effects of this act in anime... is probably on "Loli fans" and "highschool" themed animes....:heh:

Random32

2012-01-21, 19:18

I don't mind acts that aims to protect children so the ACT should be rechecked for "unwanted insertions" in the act as it is being put up....

The exaggerated effects of this act in anime... is probably on "Loli fans" and "highschool" themed animes....:heh:
It isn't just even lolicon fans that are collateral damage, its bad for anyone who uses the internet.

It presents a huge threat to privacy and freedom for everyone.

flying ^

2012-01-22, 00:17

is thre money to be made for forcing ISPs to keep records of their customer's activities?

if this ends up as just another expense and they can't profit from it, then imo it's just another classic move by .gov to place undue burden on ISPs!

expect major ISPs to lobby hard against this!

risingstar3110

2012-01-22, 03:50

I think the worst thing about this new bill is internet privacy, and potential for blackmailing.

Dared to support the Occupation movement for example, and they will accuse you to be a pedophiles accomplishes, as you are caught talking with a schoolgirl rapist on the net about how adorable Shana-tan is how you want to 'take her home'. Or face terrorists charge if caught saying "Should just kill it with fire. Or blow it up"(about SOPA perhaps) in a political debate

fertygo

2012-01-22, 09:16

And WTF about ACTA?

Iron Maw

2012-01-22, 17:12

Lamar Smith needs to be stop, somehow

I guess I have to call and write to my senator for every new bill that comes out in the foreseeable future. So many new bills to take away our rights and not enough to protect them.

That's the point. Sad as it may be.

And WTF about ACTA?

More shitty Net-control and civil rights violating laws.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/oqdxw/european_redditors_what_is_acta_and_what_can_us/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement

PringlesXD

2012-01-22, 17:18

Sheesh, these guys won't quit, will they? I wish someone would just nuke the government. :~

Endless Soul

2012-01-22, 17:30

I said it before in one of the other threads. They will keep attempting to pass these things under different names, and Joe Public won't know the difference.

Tiberium Wolf

2012-01-22, 17:43

They killed Megaupload, what's next? Fileserve? Rapidshare? Mediafire?

No more sharing from filesonic. Sharing disabled a few moments ago.

djmaca

2012-01-22, 20:20

Xellos-_^

2012-01-22, 20:29

Oh this is just delish! USA never fails to make itself facepalm.

This is basically "Tokyo's Anime and Manga Ban" blown to epic proportions.... In the United States of America!

With both premise is to "protect children", I just hope US citizens won't fall for such an obvious ruse as the Japanese did.

you are a commie!!
you are a commie!!
you are a commie!!
you are a commie!!
you are a commie!!

no on ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of US voters.

djmaca

2012-01-22, 20:32

no on ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of US voters.
= Everyone profited from the stupidity of US voters...

OK. Now U.S. is making me facepalm....

P.S. At Xellos

Yes, I like Commie subs. They do good subs from time to time.

tenchimoon

2012-01-22, 20:35

oh hell no FileSonic & Uploadedis is disabled 2012 is real

Guernsey

2012-01-22, 20:57

oh hell no FileSonic & Uploadedis is disabled 2012 is real

:frustrated:

Tong

2012-01-22, 21:11

Just mediafire people.

Hasumi

2012-01-22, 22:23

Just mediafire people.

Don't jinx it man, I'll have nowhere else to go. :heh::uhoh:

Random32

2012-01-22, 22:28

torrents ftw.

Hasumi

2012-01-22, 22:31

I find torrents inconvenient compared to DDL.

ganbaru

2012-01-22, 22:36

no on ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of US voters.

Sadly, I can't really say than it's only true for US voters.

Xellos-_^

2012-01-23, 00:03

Sadly, I can't really say than it's only true for US voters.
is it just me or does seem like people when alone are intelligence and resourceful. In a group the collective iq decrease by factors of number of people in group. the bigger the group the dumber it becomes.

djmaca

2012-01-23, 00:12

I find torrents inconvenient compared to DDL.

Not really: My subs come from torrents. I can DL GGs troll size subs(say 500mb) in 30 mins.

Vena

2012-01-23, 00:20

is it just me or does seem like people when alone are intelligence and resourceful. In a group the collective iq decrease by factors of number of people in group. the bigger the group the dumber it becomes.

Human social structure is limited to about ten to twenty people. In such groups people attempt to bring out their best qualities since they cannot feign or mask ineptitude behind a sea of others. Once you start passing those numbers, many people will effectively "cruise" on the waves of society with the minimum effort.

ganbaru

2012-01-23, 04:20

Kameruka

2012-01-23, 06:51

To avoid itself from getting the same fate, now Fileserve can only download the files that you uploaded personally.

Kafriel

2012-01-23, 08:56

So, why protect children from the internet when it's not something they should be using in the first place?

Darkbeat

2012-01-23, 09:15

Filesonic too? The Mayans were right. It's over. XD

GDB

2012-01-23, 09:19

Ryusiangel

2012-01-23, 11:22

makes me wonder if they will also make torrent disable and how about mirc? where most anime get download as well

DonQuigleone

2012-01-23, 11:44

Torrents are nigh impossible to eliminate due to their decentralized nature. Torrents don't even need to rely on single trackers anymore. And bittorrent websites require almost no resources to run, compared to something like megaupload.

Xacual

2012-01-23, 12:33

It's kind of funny, how sites like fileserve and filesonic are making their sites personal storage sites now. They might as well just shut the sites down, because no one will use them anymore. Especially if they just randomly went and disabled accounts so people can't even get at what they uploaded.

I kind of assume they're moving to this kind of system temporarily and scouring their websites for anything they can remove then reopening them and being actually somewhat vigilant about deleting stuff. Either that or they'll be like mangafox was when onemanga shut down. They deleted quite a few series off their site, and then after like a month or two all those series were back.

Solafighter

2012-01-23, 12:39

Fileserve and Filesonic just kicked in the private modus - you can only download files, you uploaded yourself.

Guernsey

2012-01-23, 13:22

The only thing I hate about torrents is how long they take to download especially with seeding.

Solafighter

2012-01-23, 13:35

I think this is not new to some people, but heck.

WJIuYgIvKsc

DonQuigleone

2012-01-23, 14:43

The only thing I hate about torrents is how long they take to download especially with seeding.

Well, on average my friend (with a top notch connection) can download a movie in 5 minutes. Me, I take 2-3 hours+

kenjiharima

2012-01-23, 20:43

So we're all torrents now...I see

Mateus

2012-01-23, 21:45

You can thank Big Brother - US Government for that, it seems to get 100% results when it motivates the Nation through fear.

djmaca

2012-01-23, 22:36

Well, on average my friend (with a top notch connection) can download a movie in 5 minutes. Me, I take 2-3 hours+

You exaggerate. A file takes a minimum of 10mins with a top notch connection if it's 250mb(average anime fansub size). But movies takes 2.5gb.

Vena

2012-01-23, 23:29

You exaggerate. A file takes a minimum of 10mins with a top notch connection if it's 250mb(average anime fansub size). But movies takes 2.5gb.

I really don't think he is...

My scrappy little Eee can pull an average of 3~4 MB/s (upload and download combined) on our network at work/school and can finish most files with a good seed in a minute or less. The only real delay is the peer search to find the best seeders which can take anywhere from ten seconds to a minute depending on the torrent and the seeders. And note that this is on an Eee for which the torrent software devours the already paltry processing power of the little guy. If I use a real computer with some bite to its bark, I can max out the connection to 10 MB/s.

...But, I use Usenet. So all my downloads take like 30 seconds at 10 MB/s anyway. :heh: Who uses torrents?

Just for some numbers:
250 MB file at 4 MB/s = 62 seconds.
250 MB file at 10 MB/s = 25 seconds.
2 GB file at 4 MB/s = 8.3 minutes.
2 GB file at 10 MB/s = 3.3 minutes.

Guernsey

2012-01-23, 23:51

I think I gonna get a Usenet but I'll probably stick with utorrent or Vuze...

djmaca

2012-01-23, 23:51

I really don't think he is...

My scrappy little Eee can pull an average of 3~4 MB/s (upload and download combined) on our network at work/school and can finish most files with a good seed in a minute or less. The only real delay is the peer search to find the best seeders which can take anywhere from ten seconds to a minute depending on the torrent and the seeders. And note that this is on an Eee for which the torrent software devours the already paltry processing power of the little guy. If I use a real computer with some bite to its bark, I can max out the connection to 10 MB/s.

...But, I use Usenet. So all my downloads take like 30 seconds at 10 MB/s anyway. :heh: Who uses torrents?

Just for some numbers:
250 MB file at 4 MB/s = 62 seconds.
250 MB file at 10 MB/s = 25 seconds.
2 GB file at 4 MB/s = 8.3 minutes.
2 GB file at 10 MB/s = 3.3 minutes.

But this isn't always the case. And that computation is flawed due to the fact that 5MB/s isn't always 5MB/s. D:

Arturia Polaris

2012-01-23, 23:58

Well my torrents go at a whopping combined speed of 300 kb/s dl 20 kb/s ul at best.

Hail Argentina's glorious internet connections.

Niker

Vena

2012-01-23, 23:59

But this isn't always the case. And that computation is flawed due to the fact that 5MB/s isn't always 5MB/s. D:

Naturally there is a ramp up time of about ten or so seconds, if you wish to add it on but that's hardly a large amount of extra time. (In total you have about ten seconds of finding the best ppers, and ten seconds of maximizing the speed). After that, though? There's hardly much in the way of a flux in download speeds. If you use Usenet, you only have a ramp up speed and then its smooth sailing.

Remember, though, this is my connection. Experiences vary and I'm on a college campus abusing a very, very fast internet to its fullest. :heh:

DonQuigleone

2012-01-24, 03:16

You exaggerate. A file takes a minimum of 10mins with a top notch connection if it's 250mb(average anime fansub size). But movies takes 2.5gb.

My friend lives closer to the center of the city, and can obtain torrent speeds of ~2 megabytes per second. You can do the math yourself. Also, a lot of film files are only 700 megabytes, they're not always 2 GB, only when they're highdef.

Me, I'm stuck at the lowly but still respectable 200 kilobyte per second.

Though I've always been perplexed by why we quote broadband speeds in bits, but otherwise only ever use bytes.

Dhomochevsky

2012-01-24, 05:44

Though I've always been perplexed by why we quote broadband speeds in bits, but otherwise only ever use bytes.
For a technical person, the speed of a transfer channel in bits/s is more informative, because not all bits that get transfered have to be data, even if you ignore such higher level things as IP-packet headers.
There may be Start/Stop-Bits, parity checks etc on the hardware level, so for every byte of data you transfer, you may have to transmit 9-11 bits. Depends on the implemented protocoll.

I don't understand why they keep this up when selling bandwidth though. As a product, it should be bytes of data. No one cares about the technical details when buying broadband.
It may have legal reasons. They can sell you a line that is set to a certain bit rate. But the actual bytes/s may depend on the error rate. If you have a lot of errors and bytes have to be retransfered, you might end up with a lower byte/s count than they advertised. The bit count is still accurate though.

Random32

2012-01-24, 11:51

My friend lives closer to the center of the city, and can obtain torrent speeds of ~2 megabytes per second. You can do the math yourself. Also, a lot of film files are only 700 megabytes, they're not always 2 GB, only when they're highdef.

Me, I'm stuck at the lowly but still respectable 200 kilobyte per second.

Though I've always been perplexed by why we quote broadband speeds in bits, but otherwise only ever use bytes.

They probably advertise bits because it makes the number about 10 times bigger.

Don't think its for legal reasons, that's what the "up to" statement is for.