View Full Version : Shakugan no Shana III - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll
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alvinkhorfire
2012-02-10, 11:57
The final battle has just begun. :D. Sigh, this episode ends with a cliffhanger, in the form of Round 3 between SotF Yuji and Shana.
Either way, the Bal Masque has made the first step of creating Xanadu, by erecting the massive tall structure. Any further fight between Bal Masque and Flame Hazes may probably benefits Bal Masque more, since the longer they fight, the more complete the process of Xanadu is. By then, Flame Hazes will not be able to stop the process anymore.
I do understand from other threads here that Flame Hazes have some concerns whether the Crimson Denizen can be effectively prevented from devouring humans in Xanadu, thus they want to prevent the creation of that utopian world. Then again, as others have mentioned, should they defeat Bal Masque, Flame Hazes just do not have any other alternative to offer, to solve the problem. Reverting to status quo is not going to end the war between Flame Hazes and Bal Masque.
Anyway, I just cannot wait for Episode 19!
SoldierOfDarkness
2012-02-10, 12:15
Well like how Snake realized he could do a better job after he was sealed in the rift I'm sure both Snake and the Flame Hazes will find some compromise during this engagement. In their case fighting seems to help them think better lol.
On that matter can't watch the episode yet but did they go into details about the creation of Xanadu?
alvinkhorfire
2012-02-10, 12:20
@SoldierOfDarkness
I did watch the raw version of it and yes, they did explain the details of creating Xanadu. Maybe, some novel scholars may feel that the details given in the anime is insufficient, but it is what it is supposed to be, since the anime cannot possibly cover every single detail in the novel.
Since I know some novel spoilers, I cannot reveal the details, for fear that it has not been covered in the anime. When the subbed version is released, others and I can explain more about it.
Besides erecting the massive tall structure, it appears that Hecate will be sacrificed for the creation of Xanadu. Last but not least, the crazy Dantalion is influential as well.
Game8910
2012-02-10, 13:50
If there is 1 thing this show knows how to do, is how to end an episode in a way that makes the wait for next week painful
SoldierOfDarkness
2012-02-10, 13:52
@alvinkhorfire
Yeah it's weird I'm looking through the wiki and there's barely anything detailing the construction of the world except for the sacrificing part.
However, I came across a note about the flame haze civil war in which the 4 gods tried to destroy the humans encroaching on native america. It said that during the war since the Flame Hazes were focused on that no one was watching the denizens and as a result the denizens went wild with destruction. As a result the gods stopped the war and refocused their efforts on the denizens.
This is probably what makes them worried in the first place with the Xanadu as they've seen firsthand that the Denizens have no self-control over their pleasures. Regardless it's a risk Yuji's willing to take for Shana's sake.
Still don't get why Yuji needed Kazumi. It was kind of sad to see Hecate gone. When the flame hazes attacked with the gods was awesome. Now for the final fight!
In The end Yuji noticed something around shana's upper chest/neck, what was that about?
Deathscyther
2012-02-10, 17:36
8/10. Good episode, but not too much happened this episode and I expect the remaining episodes to be even better, so that's why I gave this episode 'only' an 8. This felt like the calm before the storm. I felt like the animation wasn't really solid at some points though, like when the 'true ruler's shrine' was being formed.
So the first battle has started: Shana and Wilhelmina vs Yuji and Sydonay. I'd give the upper hand to Yuji and Sydonay in this case. So I guess someone or something is going to intervene. I guess Kazumi or Margery (who hasn't appeared yet) would be the most logical choices. From now on it will probably be fight after fight. The 3 remaining gods look very strong as well, so I guess we can expect a lot from them.
It seems that Kazumi went along with Yuji to find out what he's planning to do. If she doesn't like it and Yuji needs to be stopped, then she's willing to sacrifice her existence to summon Pheles, not even knowing if that would do any good. But of course Yuji had already predicted this and made sure she couldn't use Giralda anymore. He knows that Pheles is a dangerous presence to him after all. She is the creator of the Reiji Maigo and Johann is still inside that same treasure tool. Right now, I think those two and Alastor are the only creatures Yuji 'fears' at the moment.
It seems that Kazumi has accepted that Yuji loves Shana. She knows that those two love each other more than anything. It looks to me that Kazumi wants them to stop fighting and find a way for those two to be together since that would make them both happy. I guess this shows how much Kazumi has grown since the beginning.
Tartaros sure is one handy treasure tool though. It looks like it can negate anything it touches. It was able to seal Shana's flame haze powers, it's able to seal Kazumi's Giralda and it even has the power to prevent the tomogara from eating humans. I don't know exactly how, but to me it looks like she 'sealed' the concept of eating humans within the fuzetsu itself.
P.S: Got to love SnH's evil laugh. He's like some evil mastermind when he does that.:heh:
Still don't get why Yuji needed Kazumi. It was kind of sad to see Hecate gone. When the flame hazes attacked with the gods was awesome. Now for the final fight!
You remember how Khamsin dispelled the distortions caused by battles between the Flame Haze and tomogara back in season 1? He needed Kazumi for this back then. Basically Khamsin restored the city to the image Yoshida had of the city. Khamsin chose Kazumi for this job because she had the perfect image of a peaceful Misaki City in her head, since she had lived there her whole life.
Now Yuji/SnH is planning to use an unrestricted method, the anti-schield, to do the contrary. He's going to increase the distortions so much that holes will be formed between this world and the rift where Xanadu will be created. In order to make this happen, he needs the same human who helped the tuner to dispell the distortions. In other words, he needs Kazumi to quickly destroy the barrier between worlds.
Since the balance in Misaki City was so bad that tuning had to be done back in season 1, the barriers will be easily broken if the tuning will be undone now. Looks like Spiral Organ fears that Misaki City might be destroyed by this plan though. But knowing Yuji, he probably prepared for this as well.
In The end Yuji noticed something around shana's upper chest/neck, what was that about?
He noticed that she's wearing her school uniform. Shana's not just fighting as a flame haze. She's fighting as the flame haze "Flaming-Haired, Blazing-Eyed Hunter" Shana, who met Yuji in Misaki City, has lived in this town with Yuji, who went to school together with Yuji and who in the end fell in love with Yuji. It basically shows her reason for being there: defeating and saving Yuji.
Seems like Deathscyther is doing all the explaining so no need for me to do so :p
Either way, they really do know how to end an episode.. That ending just gnaws at me to "WATCH MORE!!" :heh:
elleinad00
2012-02-10, 20:39
A 9/10 episode for me
A third rematch for Shana & Yuji. ME WANT TO SEE IT ALL!!
8/10.
It seems that Kazumi has accepted that Yuji loves Shana. She knows that those two love each other more than anything. It looks to me that Kazumi wants them to stop fighting and find a way for those two to be together. I guess this shows how much Kazumi has grown since the beginning.
Gotta agree with that. :)
I just really Love the Four God of Earth!
Eastedge- man 1 heck of an epic! calling fort the stars and just attack anything or anyone who's infront of was trully epic! :smile:
Southvalley- Is a Sadist.
And finally my Favorite.
Westshore- Is the most sadist ever!!!
Westshore: "Stop fighting, and return to the Crimson Realm! Please!"
~ The Tomogaras being crushed/sucked in AGONY inside a wierd fishlike thing
Westshore: "Good......." (with cry-like-smile-face)
:hyper-^v^: ahahhaha man that was really epic(funny) I think!
and as for now it is really pain in the ass to wait another week while you know something epic will happen..... argh! :mad:
Cosmic Eagle
2012-02-10, 21:03
You didn't know? West Shore is a dick....
elleinad00
2012-02-10, 21:04
You didn't know? Westshore is a dick....
NO. I have no~ idea at all.
SkyFlames
2012-02-10, 21:09
A good episode indeed. All the preparations for the final battler are complete, I like the way that each Flame Haze finds an opponent with an equal strenght. But I do wonder where are Khamsin and Rebecca at this moment, can't remember anything about that part.
The God's entry could not be more perfect, specially the SouthValley's one. Those demon-like servants look indeed terrorific, know I understand why the Tomogaras called them "monsters", each of them is truly a one man army.
I felt that Chiara and Sale didn't have enough time on screen, but well, the rematch with Mammon will fix that. Although they could have given us a little glimpse of it to fit with the other's battles.
So I guess everyone have their hands full, let's see who is going against who...
Ribesal & Pyrsoin vs. EastEdge.
Ribesal seems like pure brute force, he can split himself into multiple copies, but EastEdge can simply destroy all them with his spell. Pyrsoin seems useless here, I don't think that his cheap poison trick can do anything against a God of Earth.
Lerajie & Orobas vs. WestShore.
This will be interesting. I know that Orobas can turn into a horse and that Lerajie is a pretty supportive defense (trying not to spoil it), WestShore also has a pretty generous source of water to perform her attacks and protect herself at the same time. I'm undecided but I'm going with Denizen's side here.
Haborym vs. SouthValley.
This will be one of my favourite ones. I don't know how far the SouthValley's army's power can go, but they will have a really hard time dealing with Haborym's Burning Field and his Rinnes. I'm going for a draw here, the two of them will keep clashing each other for the remaining six episodes :heh:
Chiara & Sale vs. Mammon.
Again, I don't know the full extent of Mammon's powers, but by the looks I think he is pretty similar to Ribesal, depending of pure strenght. On the other hand, Sale and Chiara make a wonderfull team and they already fooled him and his army once, so why not doing it again? Besides they can't just kill off Sale before he reveal the true behind his "creator".
Yuji & Sydonay vs Shana & Wilhelmina (& Pheles?)
I want to see which new cards they will play at this battle. Yuji's powers are well-known by the Flame Hazes after several battles and encounters, meanwhile, Shana's Danzai and Shimpan are still unknown to him since she hasn't use them before his eyes. Also there is the Chourde (probably mispelled) that Shana is planning to use now. Now about Sydonay and Wilhelmina, there is not much to say, but Sabrac nearly killed Wilhelmina back on S2, but Sydonay never seems to be using his full power, not even when fighting 4 Flame Hazes by himself. After the Giralda's activation I'm pretty sure that the encounter will end and they will move on to a different stage (dealing with Pheles' secret plan).
---
Looking forward for 19. The ending is going to be awesome.
Cosmic Eagle
2012-02-10, 21:31
A good episode indeed. All the preparations for the final battler are complete, I like the way that each Flame Haze finds an opponent with an equal strenght. But I do wonder where are Khamsin and Rebecca at this moment, can't remember anything about that part.
The God's entry could not be more perfect, specially the SouthValley's one. Those demon-like servants look indeed terrorific, know I understand why the Tomogaras called them "monsters", each of them is truly a one man army.
I felt that Chiara and Sale didn't have enough time on screen, but well, the rematch with Mammon will fix that. Although they could have given us a little glimpse of it to fit with the other's battles.
So I guess everyone have they hands full, let's see who is going against who...
Ribesal & Pyrsoin vs. EastEdge.
Ribesal seems like pure brute force, he can split himself into multiple copies, but EastEdge can simply destroy all them with his spell. Pyrsoin seems useless here, I don't think that his cheap poison trick can do anything against a God of Earth.
Lerajie & Orobas vs. WestShore.
This will be interesting. I know that Orobas can turn into a horse and that Lerajie is a pretty supportive defense (trying not to spoil it), WestShore also has a pretty generous source of water to perform her attacks and protect herself at the same time. I'm undecided but I'm going with Denizen's side here.
Haborym vs. SouthValley.
This will be one of my favourite ones. I don't know how far the SouthValley's army's power can go, but they will have a really hard time dealing with Haborym's Burning Field and his Rinnes. I'm going for a draw here, the two of them will keep clashing each other for the remaining six episodes :heh:
Chiara & Sale vs. Mammon.
Again, I don't know the full extent of Mammon's powers, but by the looks I think he is pretty similar to Ribesal, depending of pure strenght. On the other hand, Sale and Chiara make a wonderfull team and they already fooled him and his army once, so why not doing it again? Besides they can't just kill off Sale before he reveal the true behind his "creator".
Yuji & Sydonay vs Shana & Wilhelmina (& Pheles?)
I want to see which new cards they will play at this battle. Yuji's powers are well-known by the Flame Hazes after several battles and encounters, meanwhile, Shana's Danzai and Shimpan are still unknown to him since she hasn't use them before his eyes. Also there is the Chourde (probably mispelled) that Shana is planning to use now. Now about Sydonay and Wilhelmina, there is not much to say, but Sabrac nearly killed Wilhelmina back on S2, but Sydonay never seems to be using his full power, not even when fighting 4 Flame Hazes by himself. After the Giralda's activation I'm pretty sure that the encounter will end and they will move on to a different stage (dealing with Pheles' secret plan).
---
Looking forward for 19. The ending is going to be awesome.
Don't be so sure.....
SkyFlames
2012-02-10, 21:41
Don't be so sure.....
I'm basing myself solidly on what the anime has displayed. So far the only time I saw Ribesal fighting he was being mocked by Ernest...
novalysis
2012-02-10, 21:46
I'm surprised that the Yoshida haters haven't appeared on site to start cheering the outcome of the next episode.
Then again, perhaps three years and three quarters of a two cour season has changed everything radically? Or perhaps it's a sign of the very different tone and material of the Third Season- almost to the point that it seems to cross over into another different, though related mixture of genres.
Cosmic Eagle
2012-02-10, 21:47
I'm basing myself solidly on what the anime has displayed. So far the only time I saw Ribesal fighting he was being mocked by Ernest...
You didn't see Pirsoyn's Jizaihou? There's a reason why those two Jaegers can end up leading an entire army....don't write them off so soon
I'm surprised that the Yoshida haters haven't appeared on site to start cheering the outcome of the next episode.
Then again, perhaps three years and three quarters of a two cour season has changed everything radically? Or perhaps it's a sign of the very different tone and material of the Third Season- almost to the point that it seems to cross over into another different, though related mixture of genres.
I assume Yoshida has actually proved to not irritate people anymore. Besides, this forum has gone over that issue in time. She's actually turning out to be awesome this season.
SkyFlames explanation really helps.... xD... thanks
first half of this episode is really boring
so Kazumi doesn't even know why she is there
RIP Hecate... ;__; (you'll be remembered)
then, everything changed after Flame Haze entered Misaki City
awesome shooting star, huge mob of marching blue transparent fishes, and an army of zombies
after that a fast move from Sale and Chiara....
and last, Shana encounters Yuji....
Kazumi... I think I have answer for your question... Everything is because of LOVE... lol...
10/10 indeed
alvinkhorfire
2012-02-11, 01:02
Correct me if I am wrong. So, Seireiden is completely destroyed, in order to create the the massive tall structure, all in a bid to create Xanadu. Both sides are really throwing everything they have into the war, fighting at full strength.
Sydonay has provided a great explaination on the connection between the Snake of the Festival and Hecate. Really, Hecate is not actually gone forever. She will be reborn in the future, if the Crimson Denizens have prayed hard enough to be granted another wish by the god. Still, Sydonay is concerned that the wish of creating Xanadu is massive by their scale, and thus she will not be reborn in the near future. After all, there is no doubt that he deeply adores her.
He noticed that she's wearing her school uniform. Shana's not just fighting as a flame haze. She's fighting as the flame haze "Flaming-Haired, Blazing-Eyed Hunter" Shana, who met Yuji in Misaki City, has lived in this town with Yuji, who went to school together with Yuji and who in the end fell in love with Yuji. It basically shows her reason for being there: defeating and saving Yuji.
Thanks for the thorough analysis as always, Deathscyther. :D
Presumably, Shana will wear her school uniform through the final battle. Then again, when will we get to the part, which was animated at roughly 1m 18s of the first episode of Season 3? At that moment, she is wearing her usual all-black attire. :confused:
But I do wonder where are Khamsin and Rebecca at this moment, can't remember anything about that part.
For all I know, Rebecca is going to Tendou-kyu, as mentioned by her in 19 minutes 41 seconds, in Episode 16.
Haborym vs. SouthValley.
This will be one of my favourite ones. I don't know how far the SouthValley's army's power can go, but they will have a really hard time dealing with Haborym's Burning Field and his Rinnes. I'm going for a draw here, the two of them will keep clashing each other for the remaining six episodes :heh:
Well, it appears that SouthValley's army of golden masked clay dolls cannot withstand the cannon blast from Haborym's Rinnes. So, it does not matter, even if his army keeps on replicating and then destroyed by the blasts. Yes, I do not know the full details, but it seems that SouthValley is at a disadvantage.
Yuji & Sydonay vs Shana & Wilhelmina (& Pheles?)
Now about Sydonay and Wilhelmina, there is not much to say, but Sabrac nearly killed Wilhelmina back on S2, but Sydonay never seems to be using his full power, not even when fighting 4 Flame Hazes by himself. After the Giralda's activation I'm pretty sure that the encounter will end and they will move on to a different stage (dealing with Pheles' secret plan).
Judging from the preview of next episode, Margery will play a role in the final battle. Who would bet against her dueling it out again with her archnemesis, Sydonay? After all, she still has unfinished business with him. This is my guess, though.
redflame
2012-02-11, 02:38
I haven't posted a review in a long time, so I'll just make a short one now.
I seriously can't wait for the next episode.. Yuji vs. Shana. And of course, it gives you the feeling that it will be the last battle between them. Anyway, GO SHANA!!! She will never lose! :D
elleinad00
2012-02-11, 02:54
I forgot to say: RIP Hecate.... :T_T: you are still cute until the end.....
Key Board
2012-02-11, 02:57
Awesome monster fight episode
West Shore's summons remind me of sea angels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssl_skHnSyk
SoldierOfDarkness
2012-02-11, 03:27
Correct me if I am wrong. So, Seireiden is completely destroyed, in order to create the the massive tall structure, all in a bid to create Xanadu. Both sides are really throwing everything they have into the war, fighting at full strength.
Sydonay has provided a great explaination on the connection between the Snake of the Festival and Hecate. Really, Hecate is not actually gone forever. She will be reborn in the future, if the Crimson Denizens have prayed hard enough to be granted another wish by the god. Still, Sydonay is concerned that the wish of creating Xanadu is massive by their scale, and thus she will not be reborn in the near future. After all, there is no doubt that he deeply adores her.
Does that mean the Snake will sleep for even longer then too?
Well, it appears that SouthValley's army of golden masked clay dolls cannot withstand the cannon blast from Haborym's Rinnes. So, it does not matter, even if his army keeps on replicating and then destroyed by the blasts. Yes, I do not know the full details, but it seems that SouthValley is at a disadvantage.
Well his army are like zombies where they need to devour so so long as Haborym keeps him at bay then South Valley is at a disadvantage.
Deathscyther
2012-02-11, 06:10
Correct me if I am wrong. So, Seireiden is completely destroyed, in order to create the the massive tall structure, all in a bid to create Xanadu. Both sides are really throwing everything they have into the war, fighting at full strength.
This 'Altar Shrine of the Celebratory Ruler' seems to be important to the creation of Xanadu. I guess the ceremony will have to take place there or something, since Yuji and Sydonay seem to be protecting it. It probably has something to do with Hecate's sacrifice.
Presumably, Shana will wear her school uniform through the final battle. Then again, when will we get to the part, which was animated at roughly 1m 18s of the first episode of Season 3? At that moment, she is wearing her usual all-black attire. :confused:
I think she'll wear the school uniform to the end as well, so I guess we won't be seeing that scene again. Either they didn't think ahead enough back then or the scene is already supposed to have happened.
The only moment it could have happened was during the war in China. Either before she and Wilhelmina reached Samuel or when the flame haze were fleeing and Shana was slowing down pursuit. We never saw Yuji and the body of SnH fighting on the ground though..
Does that mean the Snake will sleep for even longer then too?
Basically it's a never ending cycle: The tomogara wish for something and pray for the Priestess to appear -> the Priestess is born to awaken the God of Creation -> the God of Creation awakens -> the Priestess is sacrificed to fulfil the wish -> the God of Creation goes back to sleep.
Sydonay seems to believe that the greater the wish is, the longer it will take for the Priestess to be reborn. So I guess this automatically means that it will take longer for SnH to awaken as well. No Heacate means no God of Creation after all. We don't have any earlier cases to compare it with though, so I guess we'll just have to believe Sydonay for now.
Well his army are like zombies where they need to devour so so long as Haborym keeps him at bay then South Valley is at a disadvantage.
I guess rushing towards Haborym won't be possible. It will be a never ending battle that way. These 'zombies' of Southvalley seem to multiply after consuming tomogara. If I were in his shoes I'd retreat, create an army so big that it can't be stopped and then attack Haborym from all sides at the same time.
I have a feeling that he and the other gods are not really fighting to defeat the enemy though. They would have attacked together with Shana and co if that was the case. They would have been able to completely dominate every single tomogara (except Yuji/SnH and the Trinity maybe) that way. But they're not, they're all fighting alone at different sides of the city. I think their main goal is to attact attention and to stall the tomogara, so that Shana and co will be able to put their plan into motion.
taichi-kun
2012-02-11, 09:50
I didn't understand when Yoshida was in that dimension and saw the city destroyed... :mad:
Cosmic Eagle
2012-02-11, 11:55
I didn't understand when Yoshida was in that dimension and saw the city destroyed... :mad:
Didn't understand what
Finally I'll get to see some actual screentime of Mammon. Sale and Chiara won't stand a chance, as long as the studio doesn't deliberately sabotage him.
Well we can't forget about Khamsin, Margery, Rebecca. The truth is that the Tomogara are outnumbered by a strength ratio of 3:1. Luckily Yoshida will unknowingly use the Hougu and probably render the two sides on equal ground.
Deathscyther
2012-02-11, 14:30
I didn't understand when Yoshida was in that dimension and saw the city destroyed... :mad:
It was an illusion shown to her by Spiral Organ (Lamies).
Spiral Organ told Kazumi that he offered to help Yuji/SnH with the Anti-Seal to be able to talk to her. I guess that he was 'testing' the Anti-Seal and found out that the destruction the Anti-Seal causes might be higher than he expected.
Maybe he already had his doubts about the Anti-Seal and wanted to make sure it wouldn't cause too much damage before helping Yuji/SnH. Now that he found out that the damage might be bigger than he expected, he might try to talk Kazumi out of it?
The truth is that the Tomogara are outnumbered by a strength ratio of 3:1. Luckily Yoshida will unknowingly use the Hougu and probably render the two sides on equal ground.
Wait a minute, you're saying that Yoshida is going to use the Hougu to help Yuji's side? If I'm understanding your message correctly, we can't exactly tell how strong the Tomogara side is. Until we see the big players on their side fight at their fullest.
SoldierOfDarkness
2012-02-11, 17:15
Finally I'll get to see some actual screentime of Mammon. Sale and Chiara won't stand a chance, as long as the studio doesn't deliberately sabotage him.
Well we can't forget about Khamsin, Margery, Rebecca. The truth is that the Tomogara are outnumbered by a strength ratio of 3:1. Luckily Yoshida will unknowingly use the Hougu and probably render the two sides on equal ground.
Wait what?
80% of the Flame Hazes were either killed or rendered useless in the previous battle.
At this point the only Flame Hazes that are around are the strongest since they have a strong will to begin with.
So shouldn't it be the Denizens outnumbering the hazes? The 3 gods pretty much even the field somewhat.
Wait what?
80% of the Flame Hazes were either killed or rendered useless in the previous battle.
At this point the only Flame Hazes that are around are the strongest since they have a strong will to begin with.
So shouldn't it be the Denizens outnumbering the hazes? The 3 gods pretty much even the field somewhat.
The flame haze army was crushed, but the actual flame haze that are contracted to powerful Guze no o are all still alive. And they outnumber bal masque's top members.
Flame Haze side
Shana, Eastedge Southvalley, Westshore, Wilhelmina, Margery, Khamsin, Rebecca, and many more powerful flame haze are still alive with Sophie.
Tomogara side
Yuji, Sydonnay, Bel peol, Mammon, Harborym/Stolas, Ribersal/Pirson, Orobas/Leraje.
The weak tomogara cant do anything in a battle against them, and would only be getting in the way.
Wait a minute, you're saying that Yoshida is going to use the Hougu to help Yuji's side?
We'll learn next episode why, but it'll definitely buy SnH time, and benefit the creation of Xanadu, even though Pheles has her own agenda.
If I'm understanding your message correctly, we can't exactly tell how strong the Tomogara side is. Until we see the big players on their side fight at their fullest.
Your right, but I'm not expecting too much from anyone except Sydonnay and Mammon.
SkyFlames
2012-02-11, 18:40
You didn't see Pirsoyn's Jizaihou? There's a reason why those two Jaegers can end up leading an entire army....don't write them off so soon
Yes, I know that Pirsoyn's poison can take off several Flame Hazes in a row, but it didn't seem of much help when facing Tier 1 Flame Hazes as Ernest since Ribesal was the one that took full care of him, and I didn't even see Pirsoyn after that. That's what I'm saying.
Judging from the preview of next episode, Margery will play a role in the final battle. Who would bet against her dueling it out again with her archnemesis, Sydonay? After all, she still has unfinished business with him. This is my guess, though.
Yeah, I also thought that Margery was going to be the one facing Sydonay, but now I believe her role is going to be set up some Unrestricted Spell while everyone is too busy defending themself.
That reminds me, she was working along with Sale to understand the Lamies' spell (the one he gave to Wilhelmina), maybe that's the plan?
Deathscyther
2012-02-11, 19:02
The flame haze army was crushed, but the actual flame haze that are contracted to powerful Guze no o are all still alive. And they outnumber bal masque's top members.
Flame Haze side
Shana, Eastedge Southvalley, Westshore, Wilhelmina, Margery, Khamsin, Rebecca, and many more powerful flame haze are still alive with Sophie.
Tomogara side
Yuji, Sydonnay, Bel peol, Mammon, Harborym/Stolas, Ribersal/Pirson, Orobas/Leraje.
The weak tomogara cant do anything in a battle against them, and would only be getting in the way.
Rebecca and the other 'powerful' flame haze that are with Sophie aren't in Misaki City. Right now it's 9 flame haze versus probably thousands of tomogara. Most of the tomogara are fodder, but there are still powerful Lords, Yuji/SnH and the Trinity among them. Leaving the fodder alone isn't an option either. Or I should say that the fodder won't leave them alone. Even fodder can become dangerous if if you have someone like Haborym on the playing field.
Even though these are probably 9 of the strongest flame haze around, they're still badly outnumbered. They'd most likely lose in a direct battle. That's why they're betting everything on the strategy which was devised by Shana.
Remember that Samuel ended up dying against an onslaught of fodder Tomogara after all. :p
Rebecca and the other 'powerful' flame haze that are with Sophie aren't in Misaki City. Right now it's 9 flame haze versus probably thousands of tomogara. Most of the tomogara are fodder, but there are still powerful Lords, Yuji/SnH and the Trinity among them. Leaving the fodder alone isn't an option either. Or I should say that the fodder won't leave them alone. Even fodder can become dangerous if if you have someone like Haborym on the playing field.
Even though these are probably 9 of the strongest flame haze around, they're still badly outnumbered. They'd most likely lose in a direct battle. That's why they're betting everything on the strategy which was devised by Shana.
Shana could probably deal with the weak tomogara with Harborym's jizaiho by herself, without the need to materialize Alastor. And so then you have 3 more gods and 3 flame haze with renowned Jizaiho's. The tomogara side isn't all that powerful, excluding Yuji and Sydonnay, everyone else would struggle to hold they're own against them.
The plan Shana thought of is a way to stop Xanadu without killing Yuji, but maybe Shana has something planned for Margery, either way they can gain success without it.
HayashiTakara
2012-02-12, 06:25
Hecate dying was rather unexpected. Anyway seems like Kazumi is going to die in the next episode summoning Pheles. That's will be a rather unique turn of events. Can't wait to see what happens!
Anyway, that crying indian girl is a freaking psycho... any one who behaves like that has to have more than a few screws loose...
Senshigeia
2012-02-12, 07:07
I gave this episode an 10/10!
I don't know if it is the excitement of events, but I really loved this week's epi!
The four god's entrance in battle was epic!
Westshore is so moe... I laughed so much with her speech!
RIP Hecate... There was a time I really adored her, but after the first half of Season 2... Blah!!
As for the discussion in this thread, I think the only strength of the average tomogara's is their massive numbers, rather than that they aren't much trouble. The ones that will be a pain in the ass, I think, will be Sydonay and Bel Peol.
I am also a little nostalgic: we are almost in volume XXII of the Light Novels... :( Yes, Shakugan no Shana is reaching it's end.
I have a question though: where are the 3 guys Pheles found? And where is Ernest? Last time we saw him was in the Battle with Ribersal... Why can humans see Seiren-den, wasn't it supposed to be invisible to regular people, who couldn't feel PoE?
Cosmic Eagle
2012-02-12, 07:11
I gave this episode an 10/10!
I don't know if it is the excitement of events, but I really loved this week's epi!
The four god's entrance in battle was epic!
Westshore is so moe... I laughed so much with her speech!
RIP Hecate... There was a time I really adored her, but after the first half of Season 2... Blah!!
As for the discussion in this thread, I think the only strength of the average tomogara's is their massive numbers, rather than that they aren't much trouble. The ones that will be a pain in the ass, I think, will be Sydonay and Bel Peol.
I am also a little nostalgic: we are almost in volume XXII of the Light Novels... :( Yes, Shakugan no Shana is reaching it's end.
I have a question though: where are the 3 guys Pheles found? And where is Ernest? Last time we saw him was in the Battle with Ribersal... Why can humans see Seiren-den, wasn't it supposed to be invisible to regular people, who couldn't feel PoE?
That wasn't Hecate....
Senshigeia
2012-02-12, 07:18
That wasn't Hecate....
I know it was a container but even knowing that, I don't know why, I ended up not liking her... :heh:
Cosmic Eagle
2012-02-12, 08:09
I know it was a container but even knowing that, I don't know why, I ended up not liking her... :heh:
I'm not talking about it being a container or anything...I'm saying nothing about that was related to the entity known as Itadaki no Kura Hecate in any way, shape or form.
alvinkhorfire
2012-02-12, 09:34
Hecate did mention about transferring back-up functions to the Conloquiem. What is Conloquiem, by the way? Thanks for the explanation. :)
I have a question though: where are the 3 guys Pheles found? And where is Ernest? ?
Ernest set up the meeting with outlaw that Sophie and Rebecca went to, as for Hyaki Yako I have no idea how they're related to Pheles, but I doubt she killed them.
-Urusai-
2012-02-12, 21:15
From the bottom of my heart, i don't want to shana and kazumi sacrifice/lose their lifes in that battle/war. also I really enjoyed this episode, it touched me and i don't know why. ;_;
Why can humans see Seiren-den, wasn't it supposed to be invisible to regular people, who couldn't feel PoE?
Seirei-den was invisible thanks to the mirror layer that was always around it, but Khamsin Nbh'w destroyed that when he and Rebecca assassinated it.
Solid episode overall, but I do wish J.C.Staff had used a little more money on this series. Some episodes look rather good, but others have really awkward animation.
Anyway, we are about to reach the last volume. Do you guys think the studio had the time to implement everything that happens in the last volume? Since it came out only weeks before the anime started... It would be a shame if it went like ToraDora, where they only had a basic outline of what is going to happen in the last volume and animated from there.
That preview... Though Yoshida was wrong. Shana certainly isn't the first thought in Yuji's mind. Silly Yoshida, stop being so humble~
For the episode, I gotta say, only the guy bringing the stars down seemed to be super powerful. The others seemed strong, but not invincible.
Chaos2Frozen
2012-02-13, 00:18
You know, for a group that stayed out of the Flame Haze vs Tomogara conflict for so long, the Gods of the Earth really have no problem laying the smack down on their enemies :eyespin: Even Westshore seems so insincere :heh: Makes me think that we had gotten the wrong idea when they said that Centerhill was the 'easiest to deal with' :uhoh:
That preview... Though Yoshida was wrong. Shana certainly isn't the first thought in Yuji's mind. Silly Yoshida, stop being so humble~
For the episode, I gotta say, only the guy bringing the stars down seemed to be super powerful. The others seemed strong, but not invincible.
I'm pretty sure she is the first thought on his mind right now.
I don't know what makes you think otherwise. That doesn't mean he doesn't care about the rest, but as of right now, it gotta be Shana.
Just look at their faces.
Triple_R
2012-02-13, 00:40
I think what impresses me the most about Shana III is its ability to handle such a large cast of important characters.
This war has main actors, major secondary players, notable wild card players (like Yoshida), mid-tier players, and grunts. It would be easy for even a slight degree of sloppy writing to result in this coming off as a bit of a mess, but Shana III has skillfully avoided that. No character feels to me like they had more screentime than they should have, or less screentime than they should have. Everything is extremely well-balanced, and the episode/plot pacing is likewise refined to perfection.
It's also a bit interesting and sad to see so many key Shana characters kick the bucket this season, especially on the antagonist side. Hecate and Sabrac... two great villains, kind of sad to see them go. Looks like Yoshida might not be long for this world either, going by the Episode 19 preview.
I continue to love the grand, epic feel of everything in this anime. While it's sad to see major characters be wiped out like this, that also adds to the epic feeling of it all. You really get a palpable sense that everything is coming to a head here, and that this is it. This is the end of the ancient Flame Haze/Tomogara war, one way or another, and at least for a very, very long time. I'm genuinely interested to see who comes out of this alive, and who's going to die. Nothing short of Shana or Yuji dying would surprise me at this point... and even then, Yuji dying with the right setup I could buy without too much shock. Only Shana dying would truly shock me.
10/10 for Episode 18. I really loved this episode. Lots of great stuff, and well-executed action and drama here.
MeoTwister5
2012-02-13, 08:43
Three episodes this season have already been better than the entirety of season 2 combined, all thanks to Yuji of course. Few series have made their previously weaksauce male leads take so many levels in badass and awesomeness in such a gripping and most importantly believable way.
It's good that Yoshida hasn't followed him out of blind indulgence, and knows that she still has to stick up for what she believes is right even if it means going against Yuji. Whether or not that would require her sacrifice next episode, well, if she does it because she believes it is the right thing to do then she can retain my respect for her when she finally decides to exit the stage.
Poor Hecate though, was actually hoping a more dramatic exit from her, though she'd revive if Xanadu succeeds.
I wasn't the least bit surprised when Shana and Yuji smiled happy smiles when they finally have a chance to cross blades again. It shows that both sides have have come to understand each others intentions and know full well that they have to fight for their beliefs and find a way for the other person as well. Seeing this I sense that Yoshida has finally realized the dynamic that really exists between Yuji and Shana, and that she had already lost (lol).
So the finale to the climax begins. Like RRR nothing really would surprise me at this point, though I'm more than willing to accept Yuji dying than Shana. Yoshida can die and I won't even bat an eyelash. :p
I'm pretty sure she is the first thought on his mind right now.
I don't know what makes you think otherwise. That doesn't mean he doesn't care about the rest, but as of right now, it gotta be Shana.
Just look at their faces.
Yoshida is the first on his mind. After all, he needs her. She needs him. They are the perfect couple. But this mutual love leads to Yuji realizing how it is more important to deal with the more unstable Shana and the unstable world. As such, they have come to a mutual agreement (words don't need to be spoken between true lovers) to take care of that first; their love can wait.
Yoshida is the first on his mind. After all, he needs her. She needs him. They are the perfect couple. But this mutual love leads to Yuji realizing how it is more important to deal with the more unstable Shana and the unstable world. As such, they have come to a mutual agreement (words don't need to be spoken between true lovers) to take care of that first; their love can wait.
:heh::heh:
don't be frustrated.... we already got the winner... Yoshida is only served as Yuji's helper this time... and Yuji even doesn't really need Yoshida to aid him (it's Yoshida who volunteered as well)
just realized that even though Flame Haze already lost many numbers, maybe they're still overpowered. Bal Masque needs more general :D :D
now who will fight Sophie and her team??? Bel-Peol??
Hahaha :heh: Kristen still staying loyal to Yoshida is quite admirable :p
SoldierOfDarkness
2012-02-13, 12:22
:heh::heh:
don't be frustrated.... we already got the winner... Yoshida is only served as Yuji's helper this time... and Yuji even doesn't really need Yoshida to aid him (it's Yoshida who volunteered as well)
If she had a middle name it'd be "welcome"
On that matter have we seen what happened to Ike?
just realized that even though Flame Haze already lost many numbers, maybe they're still overpowered. Bal Masque needs more general :D :D
now who will fight Sophie and her team??? Bel-Peol??
Hardly. The Denizens outnumber the flame hazes by a large margin as even Bal Masque was surprised at the turnout. The 3 gods pretty much negate that numerical superiority.
Other than that we know that Syndoney is OP as he can match at least half a dozen of the best flame hazes without breaking a sweat by himself and Bel-Peol made Wilhemia her ***** last time without any effort.
Bel-Peol made Wilhemia her ***** last time without any effort.
That fight in season 1 wasn't considered canon.
SoldierOfDarkness
2012-02-13, 13:21
Wait so everything that happened in Season 1 wasn't Canon?
Season 3 is completely separate from anything that happened in Season 1 or 2? That's weird. They would've said something about that.
The ending for both season 1 and 2 aren't canon. The fountain and the statue of pride events were nonexistent in the novels.
SoldierOfDarkness
2012-02-13, 14:03
Doesn't answer my question.
Did the writers ever say that we're suppose to ignore the endings for S1 and S2 then?
Otherwise I'd still say it's canon because it was there and it's part of the anime series.
Rising Dragon
2012-02-13, 14:22
Hahaha :heh: Kristen still staying loyal to Yoshida is quite admirable :p
I'm surprised she didn't remark upon last episode about it. :k
Doesn't answer my question.
Did the writers ever say that we're suppose to ignore the endings for S1 and S2 then?
Otherwise I'd still say it's canon because it was there and it's part of the anime series.
I'm going to assume J.C. Staff is going to add "some" anime original parts. Just to tag things along from the previous seasons.
A perfect 10/10
Love how everything was well explained in good detail, the twist of needing for Hecate to be sacrificed, Yoshida to imagine the city (with Lamies doing the Anti-Seal spell), 3 Gods of Earth tearing sh*t apart, and the final confrontation between Shana vs Yuji and Wilhelmina vs Sydonay.
The buildup was terrific and I can't wait for the next episode. :)
I'm surprised she didn't remark upon last episode about it. :k
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3987433&postcount=42
I did. :p
@Hooves - Correct, Yuji didn't need Yoshida to aid him for his plans. Yet he still said he needed her. Why? Because he needed her romantically. :3
Triple_R
2012-02-13, 18:46
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3987433&postcount=42
I did. :p
@Hooves - Correct, Yuji didn't need Yoshida to aid him for his plans. Yet he still said he needed her. Why? Because he needed her romantically. :3
... You are an inspiration to shippers everywhere, Kristen. You really are. :heh: :D
I'd rep you for this if the system would let me, lol.
MeoTwister5
2012-02-13, 18:54
I've been tempted to make a DSM-IV-TR diagnosis of Kristen for a LONG time. :p
I even made a fanfiction post based on Kristen's loyalty to Yoshida :p
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3852283&postcount=19
Crontica
2012-02-14, 06:49
Yoshida is the first on his mind. After all, he needs her. She needs him. They are the perfect couple. But this mutual love leads to Yuji realizing how it is more important to deal with the more unstable Shana and the unstable world. As such, they have come to a mutual agreement (words don't need to be spoken between true lovers) to take care of that first; their love can wait.
.... what has Daiz done now? :heh:
Nooo, not Hecate. Why is it always the cute ones that must be sacrificed? :<
But yay for Pheles making an appearance in the next episode; it's always nice to see that green haired beauté.
bye bye Hecate
i think they purposely make those 3 of the 4 gods look like villains so they can surprise us later
Cosmic Eagle
2012-02-15, 03:08
Doesn't answer my question.
Did the writers ever say that we're suppose to ignore the endings for S1 and S2 then?
Otherwise I'd still say it's canon because it was there and it's part of the anime series.
How does it not? He said they were not novel material.
Meaning they're not part of the source material.
I think he means that the anime never said they weren't novel materials. Which implies that the fights that occurred in the endings for season 1 and 2. Are going to be completely irrelevant to what's going to happen in season 3. Which they should've given some notice (although I don't exactly know how they would do that) that those ending fights weren't canon.
SoldierOfDarkness
2012-02-15, 11:43
Exactly, how can you say that S1 and S2 weren't canon since it never happened in the novels when the writers never said anything about it?
If there's something from the writers that say that certain scenes never happened in S1 and S2 then I would agree but there's nothing.
For example, in SEED Mwu died and we see his cracked helment. In the revised or OVA TV movie his helment was removed because the writers decided to bring him back.
Or is S3 completely separate from S1 and S2 then?
Sinestra
2012-02-15, 13:12
Well Hecate is toast when you carry the mantle or Miko something like this is bound to happen.
Oh Yoshida did you really think that Neo Yuji wouldnt remember your pendant. As soon as she went there i knew he would seal it. However from the preview it looks like the seal will be removed and it also looks like she has found the conviction to sacrifice her life to stop Xanadu plans. We all know who that green haired beauty was in the preview.
Gods of the earth are no fucking joke they are wrecking everyone and even the stronger Guze are not looking forward to fighting them, they are fighting since there is no other choice. I expect to see a couple of them fall i mean that one dude was making freakin meteors fall from the sky how the hell do you guard against that. I do like the guy who uses the puppet army everytime one of his little minions goes nom nom nom on a Guze it replicates into 2 thats a pretty handy trick plus that dude is looking for vengeance and he seems a little battle hungry.
Shana vs Yuji i think this is going to be one knock down drag out fight there is not backing down now. If they loose there is no stopping the Xanadu plan.
Seems like a couple of heros were missing when the operation started. Lets see what they are up to in the next episode.
Exactly, how can you say that S1 and S2 weren't canon since it never happened in the novels when the writers never said anything about it?
If there's something from the writers that say that certain scenes never happened in S1 and S2 then I would agree but there's nothing.
For example, in SEED Mwu died and we see his cracked helment. In the revised or OVA TV movie his helment was removed because the writers decided to bring him back.
Or is S3 completely separate from S1 and S2 then?
Yeah, S3 is actually following the LN's, compared to S1,S2. They wanted an interesting way to close the seasons so I don't see it as wrong. The writers are actually part of the studio, the LN's are written by a single person. Those events in S1 and the statue of pride was invented by the studios writers, not the author. So whatever they invent has no relevance to it being considered canon.
Cosmic Eagle
2012-02-15, 13:54
Exactly, how can you say that S1 and S2 weren't canon since it never happened in the novels when the writers never said anything about it?
If there's something from the writers that say that certain scenes never happened in S1 and S2 then I would agree but there's nothing.
For example, in SEED Mwu died and we see his cracked helment. In the revised or OVA TV movie his helment was removed because the writers decided to bring him back.
Or is S3 completely separate from S1 and S2 then?
If S3 follows the novels faithfully then you'll never see the references to the endings of S1 and S2 that you're looking for that's what it means.
From the way S3 is progressing, that looks to be the case.
Just wait and see then
The novels are the source. Your studio writers don't have any impact on them. Only, the author Takahashi Yashichirou does.
liquidblueocean
2012-02-15, 15:11
Good episode. It's great to see human/emotional effects of plot again, after the robotic first half of the season.
Must bear one more day before seeing Mammon fight!!!
SkyFlames
2012-02-15, 21:14
Exactly, how can you say that S1 and S2 weren't canon since it never happened in the novels when the writers never said anything about it?
If there's something from the writers that say that certain scenes never happened in S1 and S2 then I would agree but there's nothing.
For example, in SEED Mwu died and we see his cracked helment. In the revised or OVA TV movie his helment was removed because the writers decided to bring him back.
Or is S3 completely separate from S1 and S2 then?
There is only one original author as Cosmic Eagle said, the other "anime original" arcs are just because the studio needs to make each season look as if it had an end, as they don't know if they will be abble to make a next one, that's why they didn't gave any hint of Snake's existence before S3.
Awww, Hecate's exit from the story made me ;__;. Now Pheles is left as the only female character in the show worth rooting for (well there's Margery I suppose). Speaking of her I'm definitely looking forward to her return. Hopefully she and Johan will get a good ending. That and Shana losing the battle is all I'm really expecting from the finale. She can still get her man and happy ending for all I care, somehow I just want to see her lose the actual war. :p
For myself I can say this season has made a good job at portraying both sides from all different shades: grey, black & white.
I felt terrible for the Flame Hazes losing their numbers and their will in the previous battle, stuck between the wall and the sword against the Tomogara.
Now, in this final skirmish I feel sorry for the Tomogara gathered at the entrance to Paradise becoming literal fodder by Shana's group.
There are no winners and losers in war; everything is consumed by it.
Yuuji's ambition is to put an end to that fate, or, perhaps, replace it for a new one to free Shana from those shackes, however, since that ambition of his is based on desire leaving uncertain results, then Shana as a Flame Haze cannot concede to that, hence, she must fight Yuuji to the sour end.
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