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Za Paper
2004-04-09, 00:01
From one ep it looks like an interesting romance anime but I can already hear the complaints. Its too early to tell what kind of direction it will take so I'll hold off on any comments.

BTW, anyone count how many times Geneon was mentioned in the ed credits?

dreamless
2004-04-09, 11:29
hehe, I love anime/manga on brother/sister incest, so this one looks good. also it has a very good "feel" to it :D

Yamano667
2004-04-09, 16:27
In 13 episodes we will see this series develop; the art seems taken from one of
ghibli's movies, a very good approach :D




From one ep it looks like an interesting romance anime but I can already hear the complaints. Its too early to tell what kind of direction it will take so I'll hold off on any comments.

BTW, anyone count how many times Geneon was mentioned in the ed credits?

Killerattacks
2004-04-09, 17:06
I really liked this one. I think it will be my favourite anime together with Midori no Hibi this season.

But I don't really know whether it will really be a brother/sister incest thing. It rather looked like they will open new points of view for each other with their different style of live. I'm really looking forward to the next eps.

NeverRamza
2004-04-09, 20:59
http://home.comcast.net/~ramzareviewer/what_would_you_like_to_ride.jpg

oh shit pedo alert...

jennwenn
2004-04-09, 22:57
oh shit pedo alert...

Not to mention incest alert? You know, there's got to be something wrong with anime when I have to say that incest and lolicon is so cliche...

CelestiaLegends
2004-04-11, 03:20
lol :P give the thing a chance, the first ep was awsome =P keep watching

Iron Monkey
2004-04-11, 04:05
K, I'm going to start off by saying that I find myself actually really enjoying the first episode of this series. I like the mood and overall tone this series gives off, it's very soothing.

With that being said, I really hope the main theme of this series is a brotherly/sisterly love, and not a romantic one, although I do have my doubts. I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't think blushing when seeing your sibling is natural. If it takes the latter path rather than the former, I dunno, I'll still end up watching it. I mean, I guess I'm pretty open minded about these kind of things.

Anyways, I'm a little surprised that this series of all series would be licensed, with such a touchy subject and all. Previous series like DaCapo, Sister Princess, etc., which, although had the brother/sister undertone, did not specifically say that the two are blood related like this one does.

Oh, and one last thing. The girl does not look like a high school student, she looks like first year junior high to me. But meh, I guess that's the thing with animes. Appearance in age is pretty ambiguous.

Gold_Rogers
2004-04-11, 08:59
I wonder why an anime with incestual undertones is already licensed...

I also wonder how the general public would react to such a theme. Heh...

dreamless
2004-04-11, 10:53
heh, I'd bet there'll be heavy incest undertones. but then I think it's good to see something different some time, an incest pure love anime, now that's a rarity ;)

dreamless
2004-04-12, 09:36
the 2nd episode is hilarious and quite emotional, seems getting better and better ;)

Shii
2004-04-12, 09:50
oh shit pedo alert...
http://forums.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-waycool.gif

Bullsquat
2004-04-13, 22:51
I just find everything about this show wrong, for obvious reasons of course. Suffice it to say, I'm not into the incest types of stories and I'm definitely troubled by the older guy - preteen relationship. I saw the first episode without knowing anything about this series. Just checking it out to see if it is something worth renting or picking up once available on DVD. Anyway, its not a habit of mine to talk negatively about a series since I basically don't talk about shows I dislike. so I'm here to talk about the positive aspects of this anime.

I was really attracted by the art design. It was really, how should I say this...artsy. It's what really got me fascinated with the show in the beginning. Somehow it reminds me of Saikano although the face designs look different. Maybe its the background or the body shapes of the characters. The pacing is slow but it keeps you in the flow of the story.

I also like the voice of Nanako. It's different and more mature. Not the usual high pitched tone that is usually applied to this kind of character. When she said "Onii - ...chan?" she sounded so adorable.

I like the scene in the ferris wheel where Koshiro was crying and Nanoka consoled him. For some reason, he felt it was alright to cry in front of her just as she felt it was alright to comfort him. That invisible bond of kinship was already there. After finding out that they are in fact siblings, I knew that the chances of them being related by name only is close to zero.

I don't mind a relationship between 15 and 18 year olds. Even a 20 year old is still okay, but a 28 year old? Hopefully, it won't be an incest relationship and that they really are more like brothers and sisters opening new points of views for each other just as Killerattacks suggested. I dunno if I'm going to continue watching it but I'll be checking back on this thread to see how the story progresses.

linuxguru
2004-04-14, 08:33
I also like the voice of Nanako. It's different and more mature. Not the usual high pitched tone that is usually applied to this kind of character. When she said "Onii - ...chan?" she sounded so adorable.
Her seiyuu is 15 years old and far as I know it's her first role.

Before you give up on this series you might want to read this:

http://catsspat.dyndns.org:2080/anime/Koikaze/ISBN4-06-352036-6/index.html

There is a spoiler for the ending there, at least for the manga. Here's a pertinent quote if you don't want the ending spoiled:

The jist of the story is that Nanoka falls in love(?) with her brother. Now, don't go off thinking weird things. This isn't Sakura Tsuushin we're talking about here. Nothing happens between the two. In fact, nothing really interesting happens, period. Somehow, though, it's not as boring as it should be from the little content it has. The keyword here is "innocence."



What's happening in this show is a relatively new phenomenon called Genetic Sexual Attraction. There's a Wikipedia article on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction

A newspaper article linked from there goes into greater detail.

dreamless
2004-04-14, 08:51
well, instead of trying to use some euphemism here, the manga is quite clear in that the girl wants to sleep with her brother, and the guy wants to sleep with his sister, the only thing stops them from doing so is the fact that they are blood-related brother and sister...

LinChoiSin
2004-04-15, 19:35
i love this show so far ,the animation is good and the characters are nice .As for the plot though the main characters are blood related they don't know each other so the situation is very difficult but it could be worse ,just like in "angel sanctuary".

HaRoRuleZ
2004-04-16, 16:05
As a brother having a sister 12 years younger than me I cannot tell you how much I adore this series besides the touching visual presentation. It's also true that I did not notice the full bloom of nearby sakura trees this year.

My sister was 12 when she moved from our parents to stay with me for her secondary school study but it was shortly before my wife moved in. At that time, as a solely sister among three very old brothers, she was already spoilt by our parents. As a new couple, I spent most of my time caring my wife therefore I was very careless with my sister, unfortunately. I always criticised her behaviour so she did not like me as much as when she was a young innocent girl. Our relationship was very distant. Now I wish I could be caring my sister to a higher level than I did and I wish our relationship could be more closer. She is now 25 and I have not seen her for 4 years.

After watching episode 3 on Thursday night I decided to collect the manga for this series and trust me I cannot read most of them. I went to 5 bookstores in my area, 3 large and 2 small bookstores. The two small bookstores did not have Koi Kaze on shelves. All three large bookstores had Vol. 1 and two of them had Vol. 4. None of them had Vol. 2 and 3. A storegirl of one bookstore apologised right away for not having them in stock when I asked her to locate Vol. 2 and 3. Later my online bookstore search revealed that Vol. 2 and 3 were out of stock everywhere. In the end I got only Vol. 1 & 4.

!!!! SPOILERS !!!!

Since I am always a spoiler man. DO NOT click the links below unless your heart strongly desire.

Koi Kaze Vol. 4, page 132 (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoiKazeVol4P132s.jpg)

Koi Kaze Vol. 4, page 208-209 (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoiKazeVol4P208&209s.jpg)

Koi Kaze Vol. 4, page 210, END (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoiKazeVol4P210s.jpg)


HaRoRuleZ

Rem Margot
2004-04-19, 00:29
I wonder why an anime with incestual undertones is already licensed...


I think that Geneon bought Pioneer a while back so that technically everything that Geneon produces is instantaneously liscenced in N. America.

As for KoiKaze, I get the feeling that I'm going to really like this series. I've been watching a lot of really fast-paced, action-oriented anime recently (Gilgamesh, FMA, Planetes and Peace Maker to name a few). KK presents a nice break from the other series. There's something very muted and "soft" about this series that appeals to me.

As for the incestrous theme...well, that is pretty naughty! However, the obvious kinkiness of the plot is diluted by the innocent presentation--the nostalgic piano music, the soft colours, the sakura-petal-trope--as well as the sheer sweetness of the characters, that I find myself quite won over.

HaRoRuleZ: Where did you buy the manga? It looks awesome!

HaRoRuleZ
2004-04-19, 02:07
HaRoRuleZ: Where did you buy the manga? It looks awesome!
Obviously, from bookstores in Tokyo (would you mind looking below my avatar?).

You won't be disappointed with this series. It will stay in your memory for long, innocence and passion have it. Its story closely resembles real life somewhere.

Rem Margot
2004-04-20, 22:13
Obviously, from bookstores in Tokyo (would you mind looking below my avatar?).

You won't be disappointed with this series. It will stay in your memory for long, innocence and passion have it. Its story closely resembles real life somewhere.

Gee, I'm really sorry for not paying attention to your current whereabouts. I just bought Volume 1 and 4 from Amazon.jp, but the others are out of stock. As someone grounded in Toronto, I guess I'm out of options for the other volumes. Oh well...there's always the scanlation project.

hhaamu
2004-04-22, 14:10
I think that Geneon bought Pioneer a while back so that technically everything that Geneon produces is instantaneously liscenced in N. America.


Heh. No. Correct me if I'm wrong. Geneon USA is co-producing this show. There's a thread about Geneon USA in the credits somewhere in this forum. And Pioneer's anime producing/licensing branch renamed to Geneon. Geneon did not buy Pioneer. :heh:

Anyone know the name of the seiyuu for Nanoka? Her voice is one of the things that make me like this show more... it resembles some anime voice I've heard recently, perhaps from GSG.

hunterx
2004-04-22, 14:14
how can you enjoy a show about incest? There are somethings I'll never understand...

TronDD
2004-04-22, 14:22
Anyone know the name of the seiyuu for Nanoka? Her voice is one of the things that make me like this show more... it resembles some anime voice I've heard recently, perhaps from GSG.

I love her voice too.
Yuuki NAKAMURA (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=3163)

how can you enjoy a show about incest? There are somethings I'll never understand...

I can enjoy it because it's not me and my sister. The 3rd party perspective makes it a non-issue for me. It's just 2 characters in a show. Even in real life, I wouldn't have a problem hearing about it. It'd just be two people.

monir
2004-04-22, 15:19
As a brother having a sister 12 years younger than me I cannot tell you how much I adore this series besides the touching visual presentation. It's also true that I did not notice the full bloom of nearby sakura trees this year.

My sister was 12 when she moved from our parents to stay with me for her secondary school study but it was shortly before my wife moved in. At that time, as a solely sister among three very old brothers, she was already spoilt by our parents. As a new couple, I spent most of my time caring my wife therefore I was very careless with my sister, unfortunately. I always criticised her behaviour so she did not like me as much as when she was a young innocent girl. Our relationship was very distant. Now I wish I could be caring my sister to a higher level than I did and I wish our relationship could be more closer. She is now 25 and I have not seen her for 4 years.

After watching episode 3 on Thursday night I decided to collect the manga for this series and trust me I cannot read most of them. I went to 5 bookstores in my area, 3 large and 2 small bookstores. The two small bookstores did not have Koi Kaze on shelves. All three large bookstores had Vol. 1 and two of them had Vol. 4. None of them had Vol. 2 and 3. A storegirl of one bookstore apologised right away for not having them in stock when I asked her to locate Vol. 2 and 3. Later my online bookstore search revealed that Vol. 2 and 3 were out of stock everywhere. In the end I got only Vol. 1 & 4.

!!!! SPOILERS !!!!

Since I am always a spoiler man. DO NOT click the links below unless your heart strongly desire.

Koi Kaze Vol. 4, page 132 (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoiKazeVol4P132s.jpg)

Koi Kaze Vol. 4, page 208-209 (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoiKazeVol4P208&209s.jpg)

Koi Kaze Vol. 4, page 210, END (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoiKazeVol4P210s.jpg)


HaRoRuleZNice! :)

After reading your post, I have checked out the first two episodes of this series and can safely say that I am hooked. Like someone said earlier, the series has this soothing effect which is pretty rare in animated shows. I also don't believe this series is leaning on any incestual theme. It seems, episode three has been released by AS. Off to dl it.:)

Mr.Minou
2004-04-22, 15:54
hmmmmm so in the end

She just goes away from him and the story ends here ?

TronDD
2004-04-22, 16:37
Like someone said earlier, the series has this soothing effect which is pretty rare in animated shows.

Although no one asked :) if you like the mood of this show, I'd recomend Piano. It felt similar to me but without the loli incest. :)

Rem Margot
2004-04-22, 17:00
I just watched Ep. 3. Once again, I was struck by how finely nuanced this series is. One scene manages to be poignant, romantic and--a little painful.

I can't remember the last time an anime dealt with PMS! Koushirou gets points for offering to go with her to the drug store; it makes up for his insensitive treatment of her from the last episode.

Za Paper
2004-04-22, 21:30
I like Nanoka's voice too. More anime need to pick VA's who are the same age as the characters they play. One thing I dont like was the blatant fanservice. The underwear and locker room scenes just ruin the mood. Oh and her in the toilet stall. There was no reason to show that.

TronDD
2004-04-22, 21:41
One thing I dont like was the blatant fanservice. The underwear and locker room scenes just ruin the mood.

You know, underwear and locker rooms are a part of life, too.

I'm amused by people's idea of what constitutes "blatant fanservice." It's one of the more amusing subjective thoughts on anime, to me.

Rem Margot
2004-04-22, 21:46
I like Nanoka's voice too. More anime need to pick VA's who are the same age as the characters they play. One thing I dont like was the blatant fanservice. The underwear and locker room scenes just ruin the mood. Oh and her in the toilet stall. There was no reason to show that.

I don't think that's really fanservice. We saw a flat-chested, adolescent girl changing into her gym gear, and then changing a feminine pad. That's about as a-sexual as it gets, ne?

Za Paper
2004-04-22, 22:10
I don't think that's really fanservice. We saw a flat-chested, adolescent girl changing into her gym gear, and then changing a feminine pad. That's about as a-sexual as it gets, ne?

The fanservice in Koi Kaze isnt the type most people are used to seeing. Usually its the kind like in Bakaretsu Tenshi, scantily clad large chested girls. The less common realistic, girl-next-door type, like Nanoka, appeals to a lot of anime fans as well. This anime definitely looks to be targeted at the seinen crowd.

LinChoiSin
2004-04-22, 22:42
The fanservice in Koi Kaze isnt the type most people are used to seeing. Usually its the kind like in Bakaretsu Tenshi, scantily clad large chested girls. The less common realistic, girl-next-door type, like Nanoka, appeals to a lot of anime fans as well. This anime definitely looks to be targeted at the seinen crowd.

i really don't think that there's fanservice in koi kaze ,it just seems to show reality ,i wasn't really pleased with the toilet shot but i see nothing wrong with it.i'm starting to really love this anime because it's simple and touching.

babbito2k
2004-04-22, 23:42
I am enjoying this series a lot. The production quality is very good. This show has far less erotic content than plenty of others lately - actually zero. Any suggestiveness real or imagined is gently mocked. I am up for whatever is going to happen because the characters are likable and seem like sensible people (come to think of it, Onegai Twins was kind of lacking in sensible characters).

Anything Itou Masumi has a song on I always like, which is kind of strange, because I thought her voice was really weird the first time I heard it.

Rem Margot
2004-04-22, 23:47
The fanservice in Koi Kaze isnt the type most people are used to seeing. Usually its the kind like in Bakaretsu Tenshi, scantily clad large chested girls. The less common realistic, girl-next-door type, like Nanoka, appeals to a lot of anime fans as well. This anime definitely looks to be targeted at the seinen crowd.

"Seinen"=male? I think it's rather pointless and reductive to classify KK as either shoujo or seinen. Does it have to be one or the other? Does showing a laundered bra, or a girls' changeroom necessarily have to signal something sexually suggestive? Right now, I'm going to go with "it's a slice-of-life drama" view until the anime develops otherwise.

babbito2k
2004-04-23, 00:04
"Seinen"=male? I think it's rather pointless and reductive to classify KK as either shoujo or seinen...Not really, as it accounts for the presence of some of the content. It's always the case that knowing the target audience for a series will give the viewer some idea of what to expect. I agree with Za Paper's assessment.

Rem Margot
2004-04-23, 00:27
Not really, as it accounts for the presence of some of the content. It's always the case that knowing the target audience for a series will give the viewer some idea of what to expect. I agree with Za Paper's assessment.

What if the target is "Audiences between [insert age group]"? Do the presence of sakura blossoms, or underpants automatically shout "shoujo! seinen!"?

I think, for some series, that's the case. But KK seems to be working on a more subtle level than that. I honestly didn't get the impression that the scene of Nanoka's friend changing clothes was done to titillate the viewer, rather, to simply show it as it as: changing clothes, getting the cramps, wearing shapeless sweat-pants and shirts--this is the approximation of real life.

babbito2k
2004-04-23, 01:18
What if the target is "Audiences between [insert age group]"? Do the presence of sakura blossoms, or underpants automatically shout "shoujo! seinen!"?That is basically a backwards reading of what is being discussed. The target audience is almost always determined by the source material, unless the anime is written straight to the small screen. Manga and game adaptations are counting on the manga or game fans to watch the anime, that's how they sold the project. Age groups are definitely targeted; mahou shoujo, for instance tends to be cheaply made and repetitious because younger audiences are not bored by that.

I find it tiresome to argue about this sort of thing because it is easy to simply watch shows and make (usually misguided) claims about "all-audience," but pinpointing the target audience involves closer viewing and sometimes doing a bit of research.

Koi Kaze is based on a seinen manga. In the adaptation some of the humor is downplayed in order to make the series a bit more inviting to a more general audience. But what's left over is definitely seinen humor.

...I honestly didn't get the impression that the scene of Nanoka's friend changing clothes was done to titillate the viewer, rather, to simply show it as it as: changing clothes, getting the cramps, wearing shapeless sweat-pants and shirts--this is the approximation of real life.I don't find that stuff incredibly titillating either, and I take no interest in anyone's squeamishness about any of it. It's a lot more believable than plenty of shounen manga or anime with the breast jokes and contrived situations.

But there were 3 underwear jokes in episode 3, and focusing somewhat voyeuristic attention on a young girl is at least suggestive.

Rem Margot
2004-04-23, 01:28
I find it tiresome to argue about this sort of thing because it is easy to simply watch shows and make (usually misguided) claims about "all-audience," but pinpointing the target audience involves closer viewing and sometimes doing a bit of research.

I don't mean to be rude...but what does making educated guesses at the target audience amount to? You mention that female underwear-jokes suggest the show's seinen-flavour. If that's true, then the scene was created to fill the requirements of the genre, instead of having another purpose (e.g., naturalism, slice-of-life, etc.) This strikes me as reductive.

Koi Kaze is based on a seinen manga.

Again, forgive my ignorance, but what's the evidence for this?

HaRoRuleZ
2004-04-23, 02:15
how can you enjoy a show about incest? There are somethings I'll never understand...Maybe you are not old enough or have enough experience in life to see the beauty of this show.

...

Fortget about "INCEST," even until the last page of the manga this term can never apply. LOVE, INNOCENCE, PASSION, and INDECENCY can apply.

Forget about "PEDOPHILE," Koshiro is not that type of man. He is a fully grown adult that loves his former adult girlfriend but fails to manage their relationship. Unlike his colleague that shows interest in high shool girls. He feels uncomfortable to have a young girl, who is merely a stranger to him except their blood relationship, stay with him. It is not easy for a male adult to comfort young girl who is full of expectations from you while preserving your own lonely life (heart-broken life). Shading tears in front of a stranger-turned-sister in ferris wheel always aches his thought and so embarrassing to his adulthood.

The situations lead Koshiro to some degrees of PERVERSION but the story is not about it. Males always have perversion to some extent then SO WHAT.


One thing I dont like was the blatant fanservice. The underwear and locker room scenes just ruin the mood. Oh and her in the toilet stall. There was no reason to show that.That is a part of the manga. The anime is more polite than the manga. It is another angle to tell the story which is a part of life. Is there something wrong with a girl having menstruation? I have already seen 4 episodes and the manga, there is no nudity or fanservice to be expected.

The anime tones down a talk-of-the-town scene in episode 4. See it then you know which one. It is natural for that behaviour when you have a lot of conflicts in your head.

As a middle age adult I can say this story is good for male adults, young females up, parents with brother and sister at some age distance, any male with younger sister, and anime fans wanting to have their feet on the ground. Those who finding the ways to abuse their sisters should see something else, it is not about that.

If you are a male with younger sister you propably adore your sister than before and may stop some harshness againts her. Females are fragile you know.

Koi Kaze is beautiful. Seeing this story in anime form is more wonderful despite several elements concerning the story development in the manga are removed from the anime. YOU HAVE TO SEE WHY THE STORY DEVELOPS TO END THAT WAY SHOULD YOU CLICK MY SPOILER LINKS BEFORE.

I SEE BEAUTY. I LOVE THIS SHOW.

HaRoRuleZ

P.S. The manga is beautiful. The drawings are fine and sharp. If you are a collector do not miss. Seeing Nanoka's eyes is some kind of refreshment. After hopping from store to store in different areas to find Vol. 2 and 3 I was exhausted. Finally I got Vol. 2 from Amazon JP (currently out of stock but you can get Vol. 1 & 4) which arrived my door this morning. Even Google returns many online bookstores but most of them will lead to Amazon JP for ordering.

http://www.junkudo.co.jp (http://www.junkudo.co.jp/) has significant stock of Vol. 1-3 and ship overseas but all processes are in Japanese. Vol. 3 from this site is on its way to me.

babbito2k
2004-04-23, 02:36
I don't mean to be rude...but what does making educated guesses at the target audience amount to?I have read some of the manga. I am not "guessing" at anything. I have no interest in discussing this any further with you.

Rem Margot
2004-04-23, 09:20
I have read some of the manga. I am not "guessing" at anything. I have no interest in discussing this any further with you.

I understand, thanks for humouring me with the debate.

monir
2004-04-23, 11:34
After seeing episode three I have to say if those two scenes were considered "fan-service" then the definition of fan-service is being taken to a rediculous level. This show is definitely not for those who see "fan-service" in every flash of a female underwear even if they are somehow necessary to advance the plot. There were nothing sexual about those two scenes, rather they were as natural as life. Over analyzing can ruin any good show.

Iron Monkey
2004-04-27, 04:20
Hmm, after watching the 4th episode, I'm feeling kind of bad. Is it wrong for me to enjoy this show? I feel kinda guilty watching it. The whole premise just seems so.....wrong? :uhoh: (oh why did they HAVE to make them blood related brother and sister?)

On a side note, I'd just like to say that I think the opening song is very good. The ending song, I'm not so fond of. The singer has a real annoying voice. In fact, it sounds like the same person who sang the Scrapped Princess ending song.

Oh, and That scene when the guy was in bed, after he, uh sniffed is sister's bra :heh: , he was crying right? Please tell me he was crying. I sure as hell hope he wasn't doing the nasty, but that thought did cross my mind.

Anji
2004-04-27, 05:42
Hmm, after watching the 4th episode, I'm feeling kind of bad. Is it wrong for me to enjoy this show? I feel kinda guilty watching it. The whole premise just seems so.....wrong? :uhoh: (oh why did they HAVE to make them blood related brother and sister?)

On a side note, I'd just like to say that I think the opening song is very good. The ending song, I'm not so fond of. The singer has a real annoying voice. In fact, it sounds like the same person who sang the Scrapped Princess ending song.

Oh, and That scene when the guy was in bed, after he, uh sniffed is sister's bra :heh: , he was crying right? Please tell me he was crying. I sure as hell hope he wasn't doing the nasty, but that thought did cross my mind.

Unfortunately, I think it was the nasty, which is very sad.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-04-27, 05:49
Hmm, after watching the 4th episode, I'm feeling kind of bad. Is it wrong for me to enjoy this show? I feel kinda guilty watching it. The whole premise just seems so.....wrong? :uhoh: (oh why did they HAVE to make them blood related brother and sister?)

On a side note, I'd just like to say that I think the opening song is very good. The ending song, I'm not so fond of. The singer has a real annoying voice. In fact, it sounds like the same person who sang the Scrapped Princess ending song.
If you can watch a show that is very real and too good to be true then bare with it. You will enjoy if you like situation and character analysis. No supernatural high school fighting, no magic, no pantsu, no humour but BOND and FEELING this is a challenge for one to enjoy a good show.

Blood-related situation is the very key of this story. How a cold-hearted but weak guy handle his confusing mind with a step-in of an innocent yet lovely sister. It is very interesting.

I do not find the voice of ED singer is annoying. She has her own unique voice and I will collect that CD when it is released next month.


Oh, and That scene when the guy was in bed, after he, uh sniffed is sister's bra :heh: , he was crying right? Please tell me he was crying. I sure as hell hope he wasn't doing the nasty, but that thought did cross my mind.
Do not miss the point. It is unlike that "Hey, let's see how the young girl smells," he did not intend to do it. No, he did not cry. He got mad and was just disappointed himself for failing to manage the conflicts in his mind, ex-girlfriend, crying in front of his sister, being annoyed by his sister, stuff like that.

This is not a story of a guy who seduces his sister but a sister that is innocently longing for what has lost in the past 13 years.

babbito2k
2004-04-27, 05:58
...The ending song, I'm not so fond of. The singer has a real annoying voice. In fact, it sounds like the same person who sang the Scrapped Princess ending song...Correct, it's Masumi Itou, who also sang on the Azumanga Daioh OP and ED, the Haibane Renmei ED and the Mahou Shoujo Neko Taruto OP... she seems to get a fair amount of work. I always like the shows that she has a song on, and I always like the songs.

Za Paper
2004-04-27, 11:55
Oh, and That scene when the guy was in bed, after he, uh sniffed is sister's bra :heh: , he was crying right? Please tell me he was crying. I sure as hell hope he wasn't doing the nasty, but that thought did cross my mind.

You just corrupted my mind. I didnt even think of that when I watched the scene. I thought he was just crying but watching again, you might be right.

I chuckled when he started thinking about sex when he was with his ex-girlfriend. It is such a guy thing to do.

Karala
2004-04-27, 15:58
You just corrupted my mind. I didnt even think of that when I watched the scene. I thought he was just crying but watching again, you might be right.

I chuckled when he started thinking about sex when he was with his ex-girlfriend. It is such a guy thing to do.

lol, when I saw the episode a few days ago I was already unsure of what exactly he was doing.... I'm still praying it was just crying. I was already disturbed enough with otehr parts of the episode :uhoh:

Broccoli
2004-04-27, 16:23
Oh, and That scene when the guy was in bed, after he, uh sniffed is sister's bra :heh: , he was crying right? Please tell me he was crying. I sure as hell hope he wasn't doing the nasty, but that thought did cross my mind.


There is no ambiguity about that at all in the manga. I am glad they didn't make it so explicit in the anime.

TronDD
2004-04-27, 17:21
lol, when I saw the episode a few days ago I was already unsure of what exactly he was doing.... I'm still praying it was just crying. I was already disturbed enough with otehr parts of the episode :uhoh:

Yeah, this episode went a little further than I had expected from the show.

Grifis
2004-04-27, 21:42
I didn't know what the heck he was doing nor did I care to find out. I just thought he was crying. Oh well, now that I read these posts, there goes my innocent thought. ^_^;

I enjoy the anime so far. I don't have a problem with the content not because I'm an open minded person who would accept something like this if I ever come across in real life but because I think it's a good story and I can imagine the situation happening in real life under the circumstances. (On the other hand, I can't say the same about 'Midori no Hibi' cough cough). I do see Koikaze as a 'slice-of-life' anime. It's undramatic and slow. Reason why I like it just like how much I enjoyed 'Whisper of the Heart' and 'Only Yesterday'. The feel is somewhat similar. Anyhow, the ED song does remind me of the ED from Scrapped Princess. I wonder if the previews are used to downplay the 'drama' side of it. ("I'm so sorry I sniffed...") That gave me a laugh and suddenly his guilty action doesn't seem so bad anymore. Maybe it's just me. :D

Grifis

AnimeOni
2004-04-28, 03:49
lol, when I saw the episode a few days ago I was already unsure of what exactly he was doing.... I'm still praying it was just crying. I was already disturbed enough with otehr parts of the episode :uhoh:

Well, sorry to say, he was pulling up his pants when he stood up. Either he wet his pants with tears or he was doing the "nasty"

________
VAPORGENIE REVIEWS (http://vaporizers.net/vapor-genie)

HaRoRuleZ
2004-04-28, 06:04
The anime tones down a talk-of-the-town scene in episode 4. See it then you know which one. It is natural for that behaviour when you have a lot of conflicts in your head.
That was the scene I mentioned earlier. As I said, he did not cry but...
flushed his duct. Heh! Heh!

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoiKazeVol1P181s.jpg

Then got mad.

Watch out for that "stained tissue paper" in the next episode.

For manga collectors, as of today www.amazon.co.jp (http://www.amazon.co.jp/) has all 4 volumes in stock. Search for 恋風. It is good to get all 4 volumes in one shipment.

:topicoff: I am wondering who will take care of this huge collection. (http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/archive/200404/27/20040427p2a00m0dm008000c.html)

Karala
2004-04-29, 17:21
That was the scene I mentioned earlier. As I said, he did not cry but...
flushed his duct. Heh! Heh!

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoiKazeVol1P181s.jpg

Then got mad.

Watch out for that "stained tissue paper" in the next episode.

For manga collectors, as of today www.amazon.co.jp (http://www.amazon.co.jp/) has all 4 volumes in stock. Search for 恋風. It is good to get all 4 volumes in one shipment.

:topicoff: I am wondering who will take care of this huge collection. (http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/archive/200404/27/20040427p2a00m0dm008000c.html)

Yeah, I guess he wasn't cry... too bad, I really really was hoping that was all.... but I have a very strong feeling to start with that it wasn't, and now there's just too much evidence against the crying scenario O_O *sigh* Oh well.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-04-30, 11:28
Some people are having fun. Let's see.

Koshiro & Nanoka, Main Page (http://koikaze.angeltale.net/)

That site does not allow direct link to the sub pages. There are three more links from the main page inside contents section. Click them from there to see below scenes.

Koshiro - http://koikaze.angeltale.net/images/kuro.html
Platform Scene - http://koikaze.angeltale.net/images/01.html
Last Scene of OP - http://koikaze.angeltale.net/images/oploke.html

Killerattacks
2004-04-30, 15:31
@Harorulez

Wow this is very amazing. Is it just something some people made for fun or will it be a live action? Cause it looks really professional.

MrBrown
2004-05-01, 02:03
I've red the manga, and I quite enjoyed it. I think the author handles it well, considering how difficult the subject of love between a brother and sister is. It never gets disgusting, which I think alot of stories like this could easily get... Neither does it try to preach one way or the other, it just represents a somewhat unnerving but very believable story, it's characters, and their decisions.

The anime isn't bad either. I also like Nanoka's seiyuu.

marin
2004-05-01, 09:26
OMG he really was masturbating?

Ewww... I didn't want to think that...

I think someone pointed out the kleenex thing to me, but I just thought he would need kleenex if he was crying.

Because, I mean, he was throwing it away in the trash can, right?

And I mean, he wouldn't just throw it away if it was... well...

Do guys really do that? Just throw it in the trash can?

Ewwwww...

Budweineken
2004-05-02, 08:50
OMG he really was masturbating?

Ewww... I didn't want to think that...

I think someone pointed out the kleenex thing to me, but I just thought he would need kleenex if he was crying.

Because, I mean, he was throwing it away in the trash can, right?

And I mean, he wouldn't just throw it away if it was... well...

Do guys really do that? Just throw it in the trash can?

Ewwwww...
Well I'll have to rewatch and see if he was only crying...

and no we don't just throw it in the trash can, we it them lol... of course we do, at least i do

divert
2004-05-02, 10:02
It was pretty obvious he was doing something 'down there' because he pulls his pants up after he stands up.

MrBrown
2004-05-02, 10:56
Yes, he was masturbating.

He'll do it again too. :D

This time it was for his ex-girlfriend, next time it'll be for Nanoka. <.>

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-02, 14:20
@Harorulez

Wow this is very amazing. Is it just something some people made for fun or will it be a live action? Cause it looks really professional.
They are the works of some Koikaze fanatics. They have very good location scouts. Speaking of the platform scene, it was amazing. I spend 99.9% of my time in Tokyo so I have never seen a platform made of wooden structure and that platform structure closely resembles the anime scene, good work indeed. Unfortunately I do not know which station the picture was taken.

The location of the OP ending was good too. They took it at a railway beside the sea in Kamakura in Kanagawa prefecture right below Tokyo. I took that railway once three years ago. In order to match the scene in the anime the picture shown at the site was a mirror of the actual location.


Yes, he was masturbating.

He'll do it again too. :D

This time it was for his ex-girlfriend, next time it'll be for Nanoka. <.>
Hmm. Groundless joke is no fun to any serious audience.


Note: The manga availibity in Japan is now improved. There was certain demand following the anime release. Now a large bookstore near my house has significant stock of all 4 volumes displayed at the center of manga section unlike 2 weeks ago that only 2 of Volume 1 were available. All the volumes are now reprinted.

MrBrown
2004-05-02, 16:34
Hmm. Groundless joke is no fun to any serious audience.

Ok, maybe I remember it wrong. >.>

TronDD
2004-05-02, 17:10
Are the 4 volumes the complete story or is that all that has been written so far?

MrBrown
2004-05-02, 23:43
Are the 4 volumes the complete story or is that all that has been written so far?

Complete. The story is finished with vol4.

Budweineken
2004-05-03, 01:23
So how many volumes, if anyone knows. have been covered so far by the anime? I hope they cover every volume...

TronDD
2004-05-03, 01:37
I read the first 4 chapters. They were covered in the first 2, maybe 3, episodes. But they've already skipped some stuff. :(

Budweineken
2004-05-03, 01:41
Alright thanks for the info...also if you possibly can... can you post in a spoiler tag what was skipped up to this moment? But if you think that it will covered later on don't... thanks in advance if you can...

I'm just glad that i decided to what this one boring night... i wasnt planning on giving it a shot... but it has me caught at the moment

TronDD
2004-05-03, 02:05
I doubt the stuff they skipped will be covered later. They completly cut out 2 scenes with their mother.

After Nanoka moves in, the older brother, who's name I forgot, goes to visit their mother to talk about Nanoka moving in and how she took Nanoka away for 10 years and now sends her back, and such.

Also, after Oniichan gives Nanoka his bear from childhood, Nanoka recognizes that it's hand made. She goes home and asks their mother about it. She tells Nanoka about how much he loved the bear and about a situation when he lost it. Nanoka finds her bear, their mother made them both for them, and brings it to her new home to give to Oniichan.

I'm really tired right now, but I think that's right.

MrBrown
2004-05-03, 02:11
After I had read the manga, I was quite surprised they skipped those parts about their mother. She's a pretty important character, so it'd be a shame if they totally left her out of the anime.

TronDD
2004-05-03, 02:17
And at the very least, it was some interesting character development. I plan to read the manga as I watch the show so I don't miss things like that. If the scanlations can keep up, anyway.

marin
2004-05-05, 04:19
Maybe they're saving the bits with the mom for something special later?

TronDD
2004-05-05, 12:40
They may introduce the mother later, but the specific scenes in the manga won't happen. Unless it's a flashback because they were relavent to things that already happened in the anime. Nanoka obviously isn't going to go home for her teddy bear now that she's already given it to her brother, for example. :)

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-06, 13:44
Episode 5 ends at the end of chapter 7, the final chapter of Vol. 1, and the last 8 minutes of the anime are heavily adapted from that chapter.

Episode 6 begins from the middle of chapter 10 from Vol. 2 and ends at the end of chapter 11. 2 1/2 chapters are skipped including many scenes of their mother. I can safely say that the mother will have no role in the anime at all.

To clearly understand characters development, complete manga volumes are a must see.

Budweineken
2004-05-07, 02:37
Episode 5 was awesome... none of the episodes dissapointment... I like how every episode brings psychological and emotional themes

Autumn
2004-05-08, 00:41
I like the anime a lot so far, even Koshiro's little incident did not freak me out. :uhoh:

Its interesting to see how in the first episode, he was said to be this cold guy, that do not have really deep feelings for anyone. And thru the episodes we saw his turmoil and his resistance to the idea of having deep feelings (not necessarily romantic) for Nanoka, and has become so emotional.

One thing i am wondering is, is Koshiro in the beginning only putting up a facade of detachment, due to maybe the trauma of his parents divorce. Or has Nanoka really affected and changed him to a more passionate person.

TronDD
2004-05-08, 00:48
Well he obviously has some kind of problem dealing with emotions. He keeps going rapidly back and forth from a nice brother to a jackass. I think this is the first time an otherwise detached man has had real feelings "from the bottom of his heart" (as his ex said) and can't deal with it properly because of his own internal issues and the fact that it's his sister.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-14, 16:18
:hmm: The subbed episode 6 is not out yet.

Episode 7 represents chapter 12 and 14 from the manga volume 2. Chapter 13 was completely dropped out.


It was autumn already.

Nanoka got a love letter from one guy then consulted Koshiro. Heh heh. However, she got ignorance from another guy she liked.

After some developments, finally, Nonoka told Korisho that she liked him.

In conclusion, only half of the materials from volume 2 were used to make the animation (episode 6 and 7).

Devin
2004-05-17, 05:20
Woa.... That's all i have to say. This is the most realistic anime i've ever seen. Everything seems just so real, especially the voice acting, they sound just like regular real life people. The emotions they express are genuine as well. I am very impressed with this anime...

In my opinion, this anime has the best voice acting ever...

TronDD
2004-05-17, 07:06
Nice to see another fan show up. Too bad the fansubbing has slowed on this series.

I'd like to see this actually get released in the US. Dispite it's supposed licensing, I still have my doubts.

The realness of this series (and the topic incestual romance) would make it difficult for American consumption, I think.

Devin
2004-05-17, 14:16
I'd like to see this actually get released in the US. Dispite it's supposed licensing, I still have my doubts.

The realness of this series (and the topic incestual romance) would make it difficult for American consumption, I think.

Hi there TronDD, I somewhat disagree on with you on that one. I mean, if americans may find it difficult to watch Koi Kaze, they'd find it appalling to watch Angel Sanctuary, which has been licensed in the U.S. for awhile now, and is well... the most blatant anime with incest that i know of, heh. So i think Koi Kaze will be fine, because it has made the incest issue tasteful to watch with the innocence of it all. Oh and Onegai Twins has been licensed recently too, so i think there are more liberal thinkers in the U.S. that watches animes than before. :)

boneyjellyfish
2004-05-17, 16:20
I've really been enjoying Koi Kaze lately. In fact, I just watched the first five episodes today. However...

Episodes four and five disturbed me to no ends. It was more than enough without having to realize that he was masturbating after sniffing his sister's underwear.

TronDD
2004-05-17, 18:23
Hi there TronDD, I somewhat disagree on with you on that one. I mean, if americans may find it difficult to watch Koi Kaze, they'd find it appalling to watch Angel Sanctuary, which has been licensed in the U.S. for awhile now, and is well... the most blatant anime with incest that i know of, heh. So i think Koi Kaze will be fine, because it has made the incest issue tasteful to watch with the innocence of it all. Oh and Onegai Twins has been licensed recently too, so i think there are more liberal thinkers in the U.S. that watches animes than before. :)

I have not seen Angel Sanctuary, but Onegai Twins and Koi Kaze are very different. I think it's "safer" to portray some of the controversial issues in a comedy setting. That's why I specifically mentioned the realness of Koi Kaze. Also, unlike the incest (and other types of romance) in most anime, Koi Kaze is physical about it. Most shows don't go as far as a character actually having an orgasm over their sibbling.

Maybe it's not so hard to sell to Americans, I sure don't know the content of everything that's on the shelf at a movie store. It's just something I wouldn't expect to see there.

Dagger
2004-05-18, 08:27
I have not seen Angel Sanctuary, but Onegai Twins and Koi Kaze are very different.

Angel Sanctuary is *very* dark, angsty and... well, un-comedic.

TronDD
2004-05-18, 08:31
Angel Sanctuary is *very* dark, angsty and... well, un-comedic.

Yeah, I did a little reading up on it. Doesn't seem like it'd be as *real* as Koi Kaze. Regardless, either Koi Kaze hits shelves in the US or it doesn't. I hope it does and people seem to think it will and it does have a US licenser fronting money for it.

Iron Monkey
2004-05-19, 04:46
Yeah, I did a little reading up on it. Doesn't seem like it'd be as *real* as Koi Kaze. Regardless, either Koi Kaze hits shelves in the US or it doesn't. I hope it does and people seem to think it will and it does have a US licenser fronting money for it.

Yeah, the issue with Koi Kaze is that there is no fantasy element whatsoever. Everything that takes place in the anime is in a real life setting, with real life problems. Thus, it might make a lot of people a litte uncomfortable to watch it.

TronDD
2004-05-19, 14:16
Woah. A little slip of the tongue in episode 6. :)

Za Paper
2004-05-20, 00:01
After what onii-chan said at the end of ep 6, I wonder if he would be in love with her when she gets older. If not, then he has a real problem.

FeiFongWong
2004-05-20, 04:40
I've already seen ep.7 raw, and have been waiting for ep. 8 raw ;-) 7 is good... now lets see how do you use spoiler tags...


Lets see, Nanoka gets a love leter, talks to her brother about it, he brushs her off, and I think he farts too. She turns the guy who sent her the letter down, but he said it was no big deal. She finds a reason to be close to her brother, by asking him to help her with her homework. She goes shopping and buys some fruit for him, on the way back her catchs her, when she almost gets hit by a motor bike. She tells him... Watashi onii-chan daisuki... he gets all embarrashed, and she makes fun of him and runs home.

Hehe, when you watch as much anime as I do, not to hard to figure out whats going on, only the names of things I have a hard time with. Ohh, and no idea what the next episode preview says. ;-)

Gorksnip
2004-05-20, 10:01
Aside from him being her much older brother, I thought it was ok for him to be shagging in bed while thinking about her, bra. I mean when I saw her clipping her nails I thought about playing with myself too! You know what I'm talking about right? She's kind of hot like that, bra!

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-20, 11:25
Recently Broccoli (http://forums.animesuki.com/member.php?u=16438) who also possesses all 4 volumes of Koikaze manga doubted whether Koikaze really ends at the end of volume 4 and asked me to check "Evening," a fortnightly manga magazine where Koikaze had been serialised whether the story would still continue there. I told him the followings.

1. The story could not be elaborated further.
2. Short extra manga following the last chapter of each volume from volume 1-3 was missing from volume 4.

Which implied that it should definitely ended. Therefore the story should end at the last chapter of volume 4.

I later took a look at Evening No. 11 (05/25) and Koikaze was not there. The longest pause between each volume was 3 issues between the last chapter of volume 3 and the first chapter of volume 4. The last page of volume 4 was published in Evening No. 6 this year which means Koikaze has been absent for 5 issues and now can be safely confirmed that the story ends at the last page of volume 4. Besides, the anime is now at 7/13 episodes and episode 7 ends at the end of volume 2, half way already.

--------------

Someone including the fansubbers, have referred to Koikaze as an incestuous show which is quite irritating. Let take a look at the meanings of "incest."



Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary

incest, n.
1. sexual intercourse between closely related persons.
2. the crime of sexual intercourse, cohabitation, or marriage between persons within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity wherein marriage is legally forbidden.
[1175–1225; ME < L incestus (n.) sexual impurity, deriv. of incestus (adj.) profane, sexually impure (in- IN-3 + -cestus comb. form of castus CHASTE), by analogy with v. nouns derived with -tus]

Longman - Dictionary of Contemporary English

incest, n. [U] a forbidden sexual relationship between close relatives in a family, e.g. between brother and sister or parent and child

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest)

Incest is sexual activity between close family members. It is a taboo in most societies and a criminal offence and an impediment to marriage in most countries, as well as being opposed by most modern religions.

But the exact definition of what is a "close family member" varies widely: some jurisdictions consider only those related by birth, others also those related by adoption or marriage; some prohibit relations only with nuclear family members and ancestors or descendants, while others prohibit relations with aunts and uncles, nephews and nieces, and cousins as well.

The term is also sometimes used metaphorically and legally, to describe relationships between an authority figure and a pupil, such as teacher-student or troop leader and scout, or between those who are closely related in some other nonsexual way, as in an "incestuous relationship" between stockbrokers and mutual fund managers.
Sexual intercourse is clearly a main element of "incest." If you search the internet for incest then you can find a lot of pornography web sites leading to sex stories or photos of father XXX daughter, son XXX mother, and brother XXX sister, etc. and that represent the true meaning of incest.

Koikaze does present love and bond between siblings but not sexual intercourse between them. You will not find sexual act between Koshiro and Nanoka (sorry for those who expecting). The story concludes at the stage still too ambiguous to lead to sex. The author has carefully done a great job in presenting the story to its beautiful side. If you do enjoy the story why not try to promote it to its true contents?

Siblings' love story is not incestuous in English meaning. Misjudgingly imposing incest on Koikaze is not only tasteless but also scares away some audience from this beautiful love story.

TronDD
2004-05-20, 13:28
Longman - Dictionary of Contemporary English

incest, n. [U] a forbidden sexual relationship between close relatives in a family, e.g. between brother and sister or parent and child

You don't think masturbating while thinking of the person makes it a sexual relationship? It's certainly a step further than the "normal" brother sister relationship.

The show doesn't show us an incestual relationship but it certainly is about incest. That's exactly what was on his mind while he was cleaning the pipes.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-20, 13:56
You don't think masturbating while thinking of the person makes it a sexual relationship? It's certainly a step further than the "normal" brother sister relationship.

The show doesn't show us an incestual relationship but it certainly is about incest. That's exactly what was on his mind while he was cleaning the pipes.
Imagination during masturbation has nothing to do with incest which defies sexual ACTIVITY. Incest is a strong word. Longman dictionary says "sexual relationship" but masturbation is not a sexual relationship at all. It is personal pleasure and is just one side act. The other party does not take part to complete a sexual act. Do not omit what others dictionaries say as well. If you want to insist that incest covers imagination/thought you need to provide the proof.

By the way, incestuous is the correct adjective for incest.

Episode 8 just finished and it still stays on course of the manga.

TronDD
2004-05-20, 14:35
What he imagines during masturbation IS incest. Argeed? I think that makes incest a topic of the show worth mentioning.

Intercourse isn't the only "sexual" act.

I prefer Marriam-Webster because the URL is short. :)

Main Entry: sex·u·al
Pronunciation: 'sek-sh(&-)w&l, 'sek-sh&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin sexualis, from Latin sexus sex
1 : of, relating to, or associated with sex or the sexes

Masturbation relates to sex, and desire for sex relates to sex.

Main Entry: re·la·tion
Pronunciation: ri-'lA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English relacioun, from Middle French relation, from Latin relation-, relatio, from referre (past participle relatus) to carry back
7 a : the state of being mutually or reciprocally interested (as in social or commercial matters)

That says to me, that if both parties desire eachother sexually (in the case of Koi Kaze, Koushirou has displayed such desire, though Nanoka hasn't) it is a sexual relationship. Even a nonmutual relationship is a relationship and can be a sexual one.

Broccoli
2004-05-20, 23:08
Episode 8 just finished and it still stays on course of the manga.
According to the official website, the 5/21 episode (「風花」, Kazahana = 'Snowflakes') is really episode 9. For some reason TV Asahi skipped episode 8 (「露霜」, Tsuyujimo = 'Frozen Dew'), which will be shown on Kids Station on 6/8.

Grifis
2004-05-21, 00:46
What he imagines during masturbation IS incest. Argeed? I think that makes incest a topic of the show worth mentioning.

Intercourse isn't the only "sexual" act.

Masturbation relates to sex, and desire for sex relates to sex.

That says to me, that if both parties desire eachother sexually (in the case of Koi Kaze, Koushirou has displayed such desire, though Nanoka hasn't) it is a sexual relationship. Even a nonmutual relationship is a relationship and can be a sexual one.

There's no incest in the show at least not yet. The definition of incest is intercourse sexual relationship between closely related individuals/family members or whatever. There's no actual sexual relationship here nor anything beyond brother/sister relationship for that matter. The younger sister may experience pure forbidden love on her part. The older brother, being adult, passed the point of pure forbidden love and started thinking of her in a sexual way. The act is forbidden but that doesn't make it incest. There's no sexual relationship between these 2 characters at this point and I doubt that'll happen later at the end. Besides you can't put an equal sign between what one thinks about doing with actually doing it. It's a big difference between thinking about kicking you and actually kicking you.

Also I wouldn't call it a relationship if there's no interaction that represents that relationship at all. In this case their interations represent brother/sister relationship. Once they declare their love for each other then they have their romantic relationship. If they go physical then it's offically incest. You wouldn't call an undeclared representation of interaction a relationship. If you have two people and they both like each other but when they see each other they act as friends, you can't say that they have a romantic relationship (eventhough in truth they both like each other). You can only say that they're only friends. In this case, brother/sister.

Grifis

TronDD
2004-05-21, 01:24
There's no actual sexual relationship here nor anything beyond brother/sister relationship for that matter. The younger sister may experience pure forbidden love on her part. The older brother, being adult, passed the point of pure forbidden love and started thinking of her in a sexual way. The act is forbidden but that doesn't make it incest.

Your first sentence is contradicted by the 3rd. The brother's masturbation IS sexual and goes well beyond a brother/sister relationship. Whether or not that makes it incest, I say it does. In the same way, you thinking about kicking me has made your post violent.

Besides you can't put an equal sign between what one thinks about doing with actually doing it. It's a big difference between thinking about kicking you and actually kicking you.

I wasn't equating the two. Thinking about sex with your sister is not sex with your sister, however, sex with your sister would be incest; therefore thinking about sex with your sister is thinking about incest. What I am saying is that he has incest on his mind, therefore part of the show is about incest.

That quote is about violence, even though no physical violence occurs. It is still violence.


If you have two people and they both like each other but when they see each other they act as friends, you can't say that they have a romantic relationship (eventhough in truth they both like each other). You can only say that they're only friends. In this case, brother/sister.

You got me with this one. I think I can agree with that. In Koi Kaze, I will relent that they do not have an incestuous relationship. However, I still say the show is partially about incest.

hunterx
2004-05-21, 01:29
wow that's just stretching it. It's a show about a guy who falls in love with his sister, not that sisterly love we all have but the type reserved for non family members. The line was cross when he sniffed his sisters panties and masturbated. He doesn't have to have sex with her after that to say they are just friends is having your head up your ass. They are obviously in love with each other. But He hasn't done anything to her yet so it's not incest either.

Devin
2004-05-21, 02:25
Yah! Don't we all love "sibling love" animes. lol... You know there's always at least 1 or 2 "sibiling love" types of animes that comes out every year in Japan. And when that happens, tons moral debates ensue. ^_^ So interesting...

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-21, 12:33
What he imagines during masturbation IS incest. Argeed? I think that makes incest a topic of the show worth mentioning.You may call it a lapse of incestuous desire but the show does not go on and on on that POINT. I am telling you that Koikaze does not present sexual intercourse between Koshiro and Nanoka in any form yet its contents do not reach to that point which invalidate any claims to put or lead Koikaze into INCEST GENRE.



Intercourse isn't the only "sexual" act. I am talking about incest that requires sexual intercourse to validate the term or else use other word. See below.

Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary
sexual intercourse,
genital contact, esp. the insertion of the penis into the vagina followed by orgasm; coitus; copulation.
[1790–1800]


That says to me, that if both parties desire eachother sexually (in the case of Koi Kaze, Koushirou has displayed such desire, though Nanoka hasn't) it is a sexual relationship. Even a nonmutual relationship is a relationship and can be a sexual one.Relationship requires a connection. Imagination in one's mind does not validate a relationship.


From your reply to Grifis, I see that we can put this incest matter to rest.



According to the official website, the 5/21 episode (「風花」, Kazahana = 'Snowflakes') is really episode 9. For some reason TV Asahi skipped episode 8 (「露霜」, Tsuyujimo = 'Frozen Dew'), which will be shown on Kids Station on 6/8.Affirmative. I was not aware of that. That answers my doubt why last night episode ended at chapter 19 so fast. Poor TV Asahi does not have enough time slot for just one episode. Hopefully the fansubbers and RAW hunters are aware of that and get the actual episode 8 out of that cable channel.

TronDD
2004-05-21, 13:54
I see that we can put this incest matter to rest.

I suppose people are done listening to us anyway. :)

Grifis
2004-05-21, 21:27
Your first sentence is contradicted by the 3rd. The brother's masturbation IS sexual and goes well beyond a brother/sister relationship. Whether or not that makes it incest, I say it does. In the same way, you thinking about kicking me has made your post violent.

I was talking about the representation of the relationship. The relationship is still brother/sister. I can't say the same about him and his hand though. :D

I wasn't equating the two. Thinking about sex with your sister is not sex with your sister, however, sex with your sister would be incest; therefore thinking about sex with your sister is thinking about incest. What I am saying is that he has incest on his mind, therefore part of the show is about incest.
That quote is about violence, even though no physical violence occurs. It is still violence.



In conclusion, if I happen to know you think of sex every three seconds, that makes you a pervert or maybe partially a pervert ? :D

I still say the show is partially about incest

Hmm... I can't quite see it that way yet. I haven't been able to convince myself that KGNE is partially about sex (because they have some implied scenes).

Grifis

TronDD
2004-05-21, 23:16
Hmm... I can't quite see it that way yet. I haven't been able to convince myself that KGNE is partially about sex (because they have some implied scenes).

A show doesn't have to contain whatever to be about it.

Koi Kaze is (partially) about a guy who wants to have sex with his sister. He has fantasized about it, we know it's in his mind (and hers). That makes the show about incest and how he's dealing with that feeling.

He doesn't have to have sex with her for the show to be about incest, only for the show to contain incest.

:topicoff: Alternatively, KGNE contains sex, but I wouldn't say it is about sex at all.

Grifis
2004-05-22, 09:13
A show doesn't have to contain whatever to be about it.

Koi Kaze is (partially) about a guy who wants to have sex with his sister. He has fantasized about it, we know it's in his mind (and hers). That makes the show about incest and how he's dealing with that feeling.

He doesn't have to have sex with her for the show to be about incest, only for the show to contain incest.

:topicoff: Alternatively, KGNE contains sex, but I wouldn't say it is about sex at all.

My point was Koi Kaze is mainly about 2 siblings first feeling attractions then falling in love with each other helplessly after parting for so long and seeing each other as strangers. Therefore they had a hard time dealing with this predicament. There are suggested scenes on the brother's part that portrayed his attraction to her by showing his desire as an adult. It's a supporting element. Now in a ordinary romance anime when you have sexual implications I believe you can easily see them as supporting elements and don't even see them as something the anime is partially about. If those 2 are strangers will it be partly about a guy fantasizing to have sex with his dream girl or is it just a romance story between a guy and a girl? That's all I'm trying to say.

Grifis

kamatari honjo
2004-05-25, 09:48
just because "GENEON USA is listed in the credits", does that mean its going to come out in america? because i don't know, i can't really see koi kaze hitting the dvd stands and being a huge sucess story.

i know that i have only seen about half the story, but i am positive that after episode 4, a good majority might not continue no matter how the story ends up.

the brother masturbates to thoughts of his sister, after he gets caught sniffing her bra in laundry room.

but, no doubt there is us support for this title, but if there is never going to be dvds, should there never be fansubs?
and if there is never going to be release for this title, what about other titles?

***a little bit off topic***

lastly, if they did release koi kaze ... who here would watch it? do you think there would be some kind of warning on the package "incestious content"? do you think the dvd would have to specify the plot, or would they let unsuspecting viewers stumble onto this story?

if you were in a suncoast and saw a guy/girl buying koi kaze, would you maybe say something to them or just think weird thoughts about them.

Dagger
2004-05-25, 15:58
if you were in a suncoast and saw a guy/girl buying koi kaze, would you maybe say something to them or just think weird thoughts about them.

Well... I'd be in Best Buy, not Suncoast. ^_~ But seriously, I would just compliment him or her on having excellent taste in anime. Koi Kaze is a damn good show that features some amazing characterization and doesn't back away from potentially controversial material. You don't have to endorse incest to be a fan of the show, so I don't think "weird thoughts" would be merited.

TronDD
2004-05-25, 16:08
I don't think "Geneon USA" in the credits automatically means a North American release. I think it simply means that Geneon USA fronted some money for the production. They may very well be planning to make that money back in Japan and have no interest in bringing it to America. Then again, they may already have an automatic license to release it in America and it therefore may not cost them much to do so and may be worth it. Just guessing of course.

Animesuki feels that it will most likely come to America so fansubs wont be listed here. They are guessing, too.

I know I'd buy the series if they released it here. I don't judge people on what they are purchasing, I don't usually pay any attention to it. Unless they are buying Dragonball, then they suck. :)

I doubt there would be a warning on it. Do they even give age ratings on anime DVDs? Buyer beware if you pick up something you know nothing about and it's something that discusts you (of course I say that knowing how likely it is that they will blame everyone but themselves for what they saw and try to start a big uproar about it).

Dagger
2004-05-25, 19:56
I doubt there would be a warning on it. Do they even give age ratings on anime DVDs?

On almost all of the anime I've bought, yes. The age ratings are usually well-hidden, though, and they seem pretty arbitrary. I don't know anyone who takes them seriously.

TronDD
2004-05-26, 09:38
So they'll stick a mature rating on it (maybe) and it'll be largly ignored.

Ooo, ep 7 is out. :)

Broccoli
2004-05-26, 10:59
My guess is the US release of Koikaze will get a '13-up' rating (see below). :heh: I am pretty confident it will come stateside. Otherwise I'll be forking out money for the region-2 release.

:topicoff:
Geneon USA and a few other publishers such as Bandai and CPM use a fairly elaborate rating system (http://www.geneonanimation.com/features.php?id=2) on all of their titles, although the descriptions associated with each of the levels are quite vague.


Why the Rating system?
Ratings are provided as a guide to provide a frame of reference for judging the potential contents of a title. All ratings are suggestions only, and should never replace parental review or good judgment.

What do the suggested ages mean?
http://www.geneonanimation.com/images/rating_icons/3_and_up.gif Basically suitable for all ages. Titles in this category may contain mild violence, however there will be no strong language, no nudity, and no sexual situations.

http://www.geneonanimation.com/images/rating_icons/7up.gif Essentially equivalent to a TV7, this rating applies to programs with content suitable for all but the youngest and/or most sensitive children. Titles in this category may contain broadcast children's TV acceptable levels of violence, language and mature situations.

http://www.geneonanimation.com/images/rating_icons/13_and_up.gif Suitable for younger teens. Titles in this category may contain strong, but not graphic, violence, some nudity; some strong language and implied sexual situations.

http://www.geneonanimation.com/images/rating_icons/16_and_up.gif Suitable for older teens. Titles in this category may contain graphic violence, prominent nudity, graphic language and implied sexual situations.

http://www.geneonanimation.com/images/rating_icons/18_and_up.gif Basically suitable for adults only. Titles in this category may contain at least one of the following: extremely graphic and gory violence, excessive language, gratuitous nudity, graphic language, strong sexual situations, or graphically depicted sexual intercourse.

Occasionally, a higher rating may be suggested because of topics addressed within the title (such as suicide, incest, or other mature themes), even though the story or visual content may merit a lower rating. While these ratings probably do not account for the various cultural or regional sensitivities (or lack there of), these rating reflect what Pioneer considers to be generally acceptable standards for the general population of the USA. If you have any questions please refer them to customer service (animemaster@pioneeranimation.com).


AFAIK, no PLDC/Geneon title has ever been rated '18-up'.

TronDD
2004-05-26, 11:25
Bandai and Anime Works use the same rating symbols, I assume it's some standard. I took at look at my DVDs. Noir has an age rating, but FMP (which was the only one I had checked when I asked if any had a rating) does not. Both are ADV, and Noir is a bit older. :confused: I suppose they don't have to rate them at all.

EDIT: Well son of a... They did rate FMP. The first DVD has no rating, I suppose that's because it came with the box. The rating is on the bottom of the box where it can be seen in a store. :) So don't mind me, I'm apparently going on about nothing.

Episode 7 was another great one.

Just when I'm thinking it's such a pleasant and beautiful show-
The brother cuts one. :) And it's apparently a doozie.

Nimbleminx
2004-05-26, 13:32
I suppose people are done listening to us anyway. :)

I've been listening. :)

I truly adore this show. It's a love story first and foremost, and like all good love stories, or any kind of good story for that matter, it has to have a conflict and it happens to be blood relation and age difference. I think the author has done a wonderful job of building a believable story with realistic characters and grounds it with layer upon layer of nuance. I see no fan service at all. The "salacious" details are there to move the story along in a realistic fashion. Others in this thread have pointed that out quite succinctly. To say the show is "about" pedophilia or incest is to miss the point completely. Koshiro isn't a pedophile, we're even given a dyed in the wool character that is to show us the difference.

It's true that he has fallen in love with his sister, but the process began before he knew he was related to her through an intense moment of intimacy, something we find is alien to the cool hearted fella. Even though he is nearly 30 he has never been in love before "from the bottom of his heart" so in the end this is really a first love story for both of them which brings us around to the much ballyhooed "bra sniffing".

I think anyone that doesn't understand the impulse to take in the scent of the one they desire has never really been in love. Smell is the most primal of our senses and linked the closest with our emotional center. Again, he doesn't go looking for it, but finds himself in a situation unable to resit an impulse, not to mention he had been drinking. He's not a bra sniffer by nature, he just happens to be in love with the one wearing that particular bra. The scene is meant to show the depth of his passion, not his perversion, and I think the terrible bout of self loathing that comes later supports this.

I think anyone who enjoys solid characters, beautifully rendered scenes and the soul deep and bittersweet longing that comes with first love will enjoy this series. It's real a gem in my opinion.

TronDD
2004-05-26, 13:41
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the point of the show is incest. The show, to me, is about emotional conflict both internal and external. They use the theme of incest as the conduit for that. If Nanoka were 25 and not related, we wouldn't have a show.

Nimbleminx
2004-05-26, 13:47
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the point of the show is incest. The show, to me, is about emotional conflict both internal and external. They use the theme of incest as the conduit for that. If Nanoka were 25 and not related, we wouldn't have a show.

I agree completely.

I also like the way Nanoka is built as a character as well. She's not a short-skirted 15 year old sex kitten looking for love like her friends are shown to be to a certian degree, (again to show us the difference I think) Her slow awakening to her feelings are beautifully true to life, and a pleasure to watch unfold despite the tragedy that can be sensed looming on the horizon.

Devin
2004-05-26, 23:19
Her slow awakening to her feelings are beautifully true to life, and a pleasure to watch unfold despite the tragedy that can be sensed looming on the horizon.

I'm an optimist, so i really hope the anime ends on happier notes.

Nimbleminx
2004-05-27, 00:38
I'm an optimist, so i really hope the anime ends on happier notes.

Me too, but you know there has to be a few painful realizations for her coming soon.

Judging by the scans from the manga posted earlier in the thread it seems we are left to decide how it all turns out in the end.

Devin
2004-05-27, 04:44
Me too, but you know there has to be a few painful realizations for her coming soon.

Judging by the scans from the manga posted earlier in the thread it seems we are left to decide how it all turns out in the end.


Ahh, the realism, the drama...! I love realistic animes like this. :heh:


I've been listening. :)

I truly adore this show. It's a love story first and foremost, and like all good love stories, or any kind of good story for that matter, it has to have a conflict and it happens to be blood relation and age difference. I think the author has done a wonderful job of building a believable story with realistic characters and grounds it with layer upon layer of nuance. I see no fan service at all. The "salacious" details are there to move the story along in a realistic fashion. Others in this thread have pointed that out quite succinctly. To say the show is "about" pedophilia or incest is to miss the point completely. Koshiro isn't a pedophile, we're even given a dyed in the wool character that is to show us the difference.

It's true that he has fallen in love with his sister, but the process began before he knew he was related to her through an intense moment of intimacy, something we find is alien to the cool hearted fella. Even though he is nearly 30 he has never been in love before "from the bottom of his heart" so in the end this is really a first love story for both of them which brings us around to the much ballyhooed "bra sniffing".

I think anyone that doesn't understand the impulse to take in the scent of the one they desire has never really been in love. Smell is the most primal of our senses and linked the closest with our emotional center. Again, he doesn't go looking for it, but finds himself in a situation unable to resit an impulse, not to mention he had been drinking. He's not a bra sniffer by nature, he just happens to be in love with the one wearing that particular bra. The scene is meant to show the depth of his passion, not his perversion, and I think the terrible bout of self loathing that comes later supports this.

I think anyone who enjoys solid characters, beautifully rendered scenes and the soul deep and bittersweet longing that comes with first love will enjoy this series. It's real a gem in my opinion.

I agree 100% with your take on this story. You've pretty much hit the spot on what i thought of it. (i was just too lazy to post a detailed analysis of it.) :heh:

kamatari honjo
2004-05-27, 13:10
i am not saying i don't enjoy this show. i like this show very much, very much.

after reading the comments, i dont know if people watch the show for the same reason i do? or are they?

who is looking forward to the tragic conclusion? this show is about suffering; he suffering constantly in his confusion? these feelings he is discovering inside his heart aren't warm and fuzzy, they only cause him pain and anger. you watch to see him writhe, to be driven further into his corner.

in a love story don't you hope the two people to over come obstacles and get together, even though they can't? do you hope these two get together? if he sucumbs would you still approve because he has found love? if he falls in love afterwards because he can feel real intimacy, do you think he would wish that person was his sister that he cant have, instead of this other woman he has to settle for?

if there was a live action version would you still like this show, would you like the show more?
if a co-worker told you that he fell in love with his sister and it was really helping him to open up his heart, would you say "good for you"?

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-27, 13:54
Episode 10 has a new modified ED scene. It is not completely new but it was modified. I did not pay attention to the OP scene so I do not know whether it was modified or not.


This episode was highly adapted, altered, and elaborated from the manga. Naoka spent a night sleeping with Koshiro before he moved out to his apartment.

Tears after tears Nanoka cried again. I felt sympathetic.

Nimbleminx
2004-05-27, 14:15
i am not saying i don't enjoy this show. i like this show very much, very much.

after reading the comments, i dont know if people watch the show for the same reason i do? or are they?

I think you'll need to explain the reasons why you are enjoying the show before that can be answered.

who is looking forward to the tragic conclusion?

I can see the inherent tragedy, but I am not looking forward to it. I like both characters too much, but I am realistic about what can and cannot happen.

this show is about suffering; he suffering constantly in his confusion? these feelings he is discovering inside his heart aren't warm and fuzzy, they only cause him pain and anger. you watch to see him writhe, to be driven further into his corner.

I don't think it's about suffering the same way I don't think it's about incest. Suffering is an element in the story, just like suffering is an element in real life.
To mostly quote another wonderful love story, "Life _is_ suffering, Princess. Anyone telling you different is trying to sell you something."

I don't watch to see him writhe, I watch to see him make choices. The fact that he does writhe shows his strength of character. TronDD summed it up nicely, I think.

in a love story don't you hope the two people to over come obstacles and get together, even though they can't?

It depends on the love story. There are so many variations a general answer is not appropriate in my eyes.

do you hope these two get together?

The romantic part of me does, the realistic part of me does not. I know this opinion will be unpopular, but it is honest.

if he sucumbs would you still approve because he has found love?

Approve is not the right word. Understand is closer in my case. I haven't seen the whole series but I can infer from the established characters that he would/will not succumb if his feelings were not reciprocated. He is not a rapist or pedophile. He is not trying to seduce her, but as her feelings grow (it's been well established she is falling for him as well, though she doesn't quite understand it yet) and if she begins to pursue him it will add a level of difficulty to the situation that even the strongest of people would find daunting. Judging by the raw episode I have seen, and taking into account I do not speak Japanese, I believe he will be moving out soon because he feels he has stepped over the line--again trying his best to do what is right.

if he falls in love afterwards because he can feel real intimacy, do you think he would wish that person was his sister that he cant have, instead of this other woman he has to settle for?

Unfortunately I don't I have enough information to speculate. Perhaps after seeing a few more episodes I could make a guess.

if there was a live action version would you still like this show, would you like the show more?

I would watch it, but I don't know if I would enjoy it less or more. There are too many variables from acting to directing.

if a co-worker told you that he fell in love with his sister and it was really helping him to open up his heart, would you say "good for you"?

Not at all. A confidence in that context would probably illicit a long bout of questions, including "Why are you telling me this?" Returning to the subject of show we are discussing, I don't believe Koshiro would confide in a co-worker. Perhaps there is an outside chance in the sympathetic female (I'm sorry I can't remember her name) for she is shown as the judge and jury of all at the end of each episode.

TronDD
2004-05-27, 14:24
in a love story don't you hope the two people to over come obstacles and get together, even though they can't? do you hope these two get together? if he sucumbs would you still approve because he has found love? if he falls in love afterwards because he can feel real intimacy, do you think he would wish that person was his sister that he cant have, instead of this other woman he has to settle for?

if there was a live action version would you still like this show, would you like the show more?
if a co-worker told you that he fell in love with his sister and it was really helping him to open up his heart, would you say "good for you"?

Interesting questions and difficult to answer. That what is so great about this show. :)

I think the events of the show have been both happy and tragic at the same time. I think the ending will be both happy and tragic, it'll be hard to do otherwise. I'm not looking forward to any particular ending, I'm just just enjoying the ride.

In responce to your questions:
Not always is the happy ending the best one. It depends what the story is about. A tragic ending can make a really big impact.
In Koi Kaze, I don't think I hope for them to get together. I think their relatianship is a learning phase for both of them that they'll need to get through then move on in love having grown from the experiance.
I guess I would approve if they end up together. I'm not really put off by the idea of incest.
If he fell in love with someone else, that isn't "settling for someone". That would mean he has learned how to love and has moved on from Nanoka. Sounds harsh from Nanoka's point of view, but ideally, as this is her frist love, she'll grow and move on too. People change love interests all the time. It's part of being social creatures.

I probably wouldn't like a live action version as much because I don't like live action as much. :) Story-wise, I don't see why it would make a difference.
If I came across someone in real life in love with a sibling, it wouldn't bother me. I don't see how one could love their sibling, but then I don't see how homosexuals can love someone of the same gender, either. To each, his own and all that. You do what you feel is right, if it doesn't hurt anyone else, then who am I to say anything?

EDIT: Just watched episode 8. Wow. Very moving. Dying to know where it goes from here.

Devin
2004-05-28, 06:17
Interesting questions and difficult to answer. That what is so great about this show. :)

I think the events of the show have been both happy and tragic at the same time. I think the ending will be both happy and tragic, it'll be hard to do otherwise. I'm not looking forward to any particular ending, I'm just just enjoying the ride.

In responce to your questions:
Not always is the happy ending the best one. It depends what the story is about. A tragic ending can make a really big impact.
In Koi Kaze, I don't think I hope for them to get together. I think their relatianship is a learning phase for both of them that they'll need to get through then move on in love having grown from the experiance.
I guess I would approve if they end up together. I'm not really put off by the idea of incest.
If he fell in love with someone else, that isn't "settling for someone". That would mean he has learned how to love and has moved on from Nanoka. Sounds harsh from Nanoka's point of view, but ideally, as this is her frist love, she'll grow and move on too. People change love interests all the time. It's part of being social creatures.

I probably wouldn't like a live action version as much because I don't like live action as much. :) Story-wise, I don't see why it would make a difference.
If I came across someone in real life in love with a sibling, it wouldn't bother me. I don't see how one could love their sibling, but then I don't see how homosexuals can love someone of the same gender, either. To each, his own and all that. You do what you feel is right, if it doesn't hurt anyone else, then who am I to say anything?

EDIT: Just watched episode 8. Wow. Very moving. Dying to know where it goes from here.

I just finished Episode 8 as well. It left me in a huge cliffhanger. Must watch next episode now...!

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-28, 08:30
I would say episode 8+1 is the best so far, so emotional. Nanoka is so CUTE.

Bad news (or probably a good news) to manga readers. Koikaze chapter 30 is printed in Evening Magazine no. 12, 2004/06/08. The next chapter is to be printed in issue no. 14. Which issue was chapter 29 printed in, probably no. 10???

The question now is how and where the anime would end while the manga is still going on.

Broccoli
2004-05-28, 10:58
Bad news (or probably a good news) to manga readers. Koikaze chapter 30 is printed in Evening Magazine no. 12, 2004/06/08. The next chapter is to be printed in issue no. 14. Which issue was chapter 29 printed in, probably no. 10???

See? I told ya...

Now where would you find old comic mags? Do manga cafes have them?

Now my local condo-sized Kinokuniya might get a new customer picking up two-month-old Evening mags at $10 each.

The question now is how and where the anime would end while the manga is still going on.
Yay, more suspense. I like it.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-28, 11:34
See? I told ya... No, you did not know either. :D



Now where would you find old comic mags? Do manga cafes have them?

Now my local condo-sized Kinokuniya might get a new customer picking up two-month-old Evening mags at $10 each.
Two month old? Then you can get chapter 29. 267 yen is upped to $10? :eyebrow: Do not worry, there are plenty of used bookstores for me to get.

If I put up scans from chapter 30 then this thread would be on fire again. :D

Nimbleminx
2004-05-28, 13:10
Yay scans! I for one would be grateful. :)

TronDD
2004-05-28, 13:20
So is the manga going beyond volume 4? It was previously stated that the 4 volumes was the end. I don't know what the chapter count would be, though.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-29, 04:02
So is the manga going beyond volume 4? It was previously stated that the 4 volumes was the end. I don't know what the chapter count would be, though.
Here is manga information to clear up any questions.

Vol. 1 - Chapter 01-07
Vol. 2 - Chapter 08-14
Vol. 3 - Chapter 15-21
Vol. 4 - Chapter 22-28

Episode 7 ended at chapter 14.
Episode 8 ended at ????
Episode 8+1 ended at chapter 19.
Episode 9+1 ended at chapter 21.

Note that many chapters were completely or partly skipped in the anime.

As I posted earlier, chapter 30 was discovered yesterday to be continuingly serialised out there, beyond volume 4. The final thought of chapter 30 was how they would handle their lives in that situation (while Koshiro was irregularly impulsive for inner sexual desire that he could not commit though attemping when they were side by side).

I referred to episode 8 as 8+1 to indicate that it was actually episode 9 because the free TV skipped airing (as planned) the actual episode 8 of the series. The actual episode 8 will only be aired on a cable channel on 06/07 night. The cable channel has been airing up to episode 6 as of now. Should the actual episode 8 be subbed then be prepared for any episode number confusion.

By the way, where do all the girls go? I like to hear girls' point of view on this love story.

Z13LAZARUS
2004-05-29, 08:08
In the "Next Episode Preview" for 7, it mentions Windflower, which is the name of eps 8... further confusion, I'd say...

(edit):
Er, I mean Fansubbed eps 8

Dagger
2004-05-29, 09:46
By the way, where do all the girls go? I like to hear girls' point of view on this love story.

I love it, and I don't normally enjoy romantic anime. ^_^ Watching this show is seriously a sublime experience--it's like reading classic poetry or something. Episode 8 was particularly good. I appreciate the fact that Koi Kaze is cute, funny and heartrending all at the same time.

Nimbleminx
2004-05-29, 14:42
I love it, and I don't normally enjoy romantic anime. ^_^ Watching this show is seriously a sublime experience--it's like reading classic poetry or something. Episode 8 was particularly good. I appreciate the fact that Koi Kaze is cute, funny and heartrending all at the same time.

That's a wonderful way of putting it. It's as well thought out as poetry in my opinion. Each scene is thoughtfully composed and adds to the whole. It's such a shame they skipped one episode. I am glad the scanlation was available because I think it gave deeper insight into Koshiro's frame of mind.


HaRoRuleZ,

Could you elaborate a little on what you meant by:

(while Koshiro was irregularly impulsive for inner sexual desire that he could
not commit though attemping when they were side by side)

I don't want to spoil the story for anyone, but I am curious if my ideas on Koshiro's character are accurate.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-29, 15:34
I love it, and I don't normally enjoy romantic anime. ^_^ Watching this show is seriously a sublime experience--it's like reading classic poetry or something. Episode 8 was particularly good. I appreciate the fact that Koi Kaze is cute, funny and heartrending all at the same time.
Thanks for responding. Anyone more?



HaRoRuleZ,

Could you elaborate a little on what you meant by:

(while Koshiro was irregularly impulsive for inner sexual desire that he could
not commit though attemping when they were side by side)

I don't want to spoil the story for anyone, but I am curious if my ideas on Koshiro's character are accurate.
Your take and my take on Koshiro are still perfect. Your request can be easily answered by some scans but I do not want do that now. In short, no nudity, no sex, Koshiro just lost a lapse of self-control. "Gomen," he said.

I am addictive to Nanoka's hair very much, especially the movement. It is beautifully drawn in the manga. The appearance in the anime is very good too and very natural comparing to current standard anime hair design. Who do agree with me on this?

miscpurp
2004-05-29, 17:45
By the way, where do all the girls go? I like to hear girls' point of view on this love story.


Since you asked, here goes...

I'm a girl, and I don't have any problem watching it. I think it is one of the most unique and beautifully done anime I have ever seen. The opening piece was great, that is probably the only reason I am watching it in the first place.

As far as the love story is concerned, I can identify with either character because I had also been in a platonic love situation. I sympathize with them because containing such feelings is extremely difficult. It is amazing that an anime dares to touch on the "taboo" side of society that koi kaze potrays. The show feels real and very down-to-earth: plain clothes, mild humor, monotonic life. On top of it, the producers are able to do it with elegance.

Koi Kaze is simply beautiful.

I think situations such as in Koi Kaze do happen, but people are just too afraid to bring those to light. If I'm not mistaken, hundreds of years ago relationship between siblings are tolerable (in royal families ?), and marriage between close cousins are common. The concern about incest is only an effect of current society values imposed on us.

------

DISCLAIMER: I don't read japanese, so what I understood from the manga may be totally off. Please correct me if I am wrong.

As for the anime itself, the only thing I feel lacking is the relationship development between the two. I don't read japanese, but I saw all 4 vols of the manga. There are too many important events skipped in the anime, therefore it feels as if Nanoka's emotions is only to the extent of "puppy love", a temporary affection and admiration to Koshiro (there must be a better term than "puppy love" but I can't think of any right now). But the manga seem to show that her feelings is a lot stronger and much more serious.

If I watched the anime without the manga, I would have hard time understanding how they develop such strong attraction. But again that's just my personal opinion.

miscpurp
2004-05-29, 17:49
Does anyone know if another studio worked on episode 9? The framerate is very low and the character design changes.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-05-30, 08:41
Since you asked, here goes...
...

As for the anime itself, the only thing I feel lacking is the relationship development between the two. I don't read japanese, but I saw all 4 vols of the manga. There are too many important events skipped in the anime, therefore it feels as if Nanoka's emotions is only to the extent of "puppy love", a temporary affection and admiration to Koshiro (there must be a better term than "puppy love" but I can't think of any right now). But the manga seem to show that her feelings is a lot stronger and much more serious.

If I watched the anime without the manga, I would have hard time understanding how they develop such strong attraction. But again that's just my personal opinion.
Thanks for adding colors to Koikaze.

We share the same views of the relationship development. It is the manga that made me value this show highly. The author finely crafted this story to reality. I wish the show would be made 26 episodes instead of 13.

hunterx
2004-05-30, 10:47
As far as the love story is concerned, I can identify with either character because I had also been in a platonic love situation. I sympathize with them because containing such feelings is extremely difficult. It is amazing that an anime dares to touch on the "taboo" side of society that koi kaze potrays. The show feels real and very down-to-earth: plain clothes, mild humor, monotonic life. On top of it, the producers are able to do it with elegance.

Koi Kaze is simply beautiful.

I think situations such as in Koi Kaze do happen, but people are just too afraid to bring those to light. If I'm not mistaken, hundreds of years ago relationship between siblings are tolerable (in royal families ?), and marriage between close cousins are common. The concern about incest is only an effect of current society values imposed on us.

it's not just the incest, but everyone seems to be forgetting the age difference. Unlike angel sactuary where they are mostly the same age, the guy is a whole lot older than the girl in KK. not only is it incest related, it is pedo related too.

ChoBaka
2004-05-30, 13:05
it's not just the incest, but everyone seems to be forgetting the age difference. Unlike angel sactuary where they are mostly the same age, the guy is a whole lot older than the girl in KK. not only is it incest related, it is pedo related too.

True...she's 12 years younger than he is, and judging by the fact that she's in high school, if anything happened between them in many US states laws would go into effect (besides the fact they are related).

Well, at least nothing really happens. It's all inner suffering anyway (which is the best part, makes you wanna rip your heart out while watching it).

Nimbleminx
2004-05-30, 13:09
it's not just the incest, but everyone seems to be forgetting the age difference. Unlike angel sactuary where they are mostly the same age, the guy is a whole lot older than the girl in KK. not only is it incest related, it is pedo related too.

I think the age difference is important, but there is no pedophilia in it. Koshiro doesn't find her attractive _because_ she is younger, that would be pedophilia, she just happens to be significantly younger, a device the author chose (I believe) to explain why Koshiro has no real bond with her as a sibling. He had little to do with her when she was young, then they were separated. If they had been closer in age there would have been far more sibling bonding that usually prevents, alters or overrides any sexual feelings developing between brother and sister.

On a side note, I think saying finding a 15 year old girl attractive would be stretching the idea of pedophilia a bit as well. At 15 most girls have begun to develop their secondary sexual characteristics, and even in America the legal age limit for marriage is 16. (She has a birthday in the anime, but I am uncertain if it was from 14 to 15, or from 15 to 16) I think most men, on a physical level at least can find a 15 year old attractive, or at least their genes can. It's not a laudable trait, just genetically sound.

Dagger
2004-06-03, 14:07
Episode 8 is pretty incredible.

I have no idea how Koshiro and Nanoka are going to make up this time. I don't think Nanoka has ever been that upset, and I feel really bad for Koshiro. She came so close to pushing him over the edge.

Zalasta
2004-06-03, 18:22
I've always wondered about this: The black teddy bear is Koshiro's right? If that's the case, why does it show a picture of baby Nanoka playing with it in the opening sequence?

EDIT:
I don't understand why I keep seeing Koi Kaze and pedophile in the same sentence, it isn't as if Koshiro has a thing for underaged girls, he just happened to develop an intense feeling for a high school girl whom he had an emotional moment with, and she turned out to be his sister. To me Koi Kaze is about an adult male struggling to sort out his feelings, he probably has never felt this intensely about anyone in his prior romantic relationships (as indicated by what his ex-girlfriend said to him). Koshiro knows that he is suppose to only love Nanoka as a brother, but he already felt something for her before knowing they were related, and I think that feeling only has grown stronger since then, especially living together. I love Koi Kaze because it feels realistic, and it is anything but cliche which fills many of the so called romantic series out there.

FeiFongWong
2004-06-03, 18:27
Episode 8 is pretty incredible.

I have no idea how Koshiro and Nanoka are going to make up this time. I don't think Nanoka has ever been that upset, and I feel really bad for Koshiro. She came so close to pushing him over the edge.

I have also watched episode 8 and 9(raw), but in episode 8 I don't think she was upset, I think she was just surprised. After you watch episode 9, you find out that she has fully realized her true feelings and the situation that it puts her and Koshiro in. BTW they sleep together in episode 9. :heh:

Broccoli
2004-06-03, 23:24
BTW they sleep together in episode 9. :heh:

Ahem... they share the same bed. She still has her clothes on when she wakes up. 'Sleeping together' is really a euphemism for 'going all the way'. :heh:

Bad news (or probably a good news) to manga readers. Koikaze chapter 30 is printed in Evening Magazine no. 12, 2004/06/08. The next chapter is to be printed in issue no. 14. Which issue was chapter 29 printed in, probably no. 10???
Stopped by (actually drove 10 miles/16 km out to) Kinokuniya and picked up 5/11 no 10 this evening (no pun intended). I exaggerated when I said it's $10 earlier--the price is USD 4.05. Still, that's a lot of money for a 450-page rag printed on toilet paper, and the print quality is worse than that of a daily newspaper (not to mention I am getting it just for one story).

Koikaze chapter 29 is published in this issue. If I guessed right with my virtually non-existent knowledge of Japanese, it's titled 'Futari no Nagai Yoru (Zenpen)', or 'Their Long Night, Part 1', more or less. This means you probably have the 'Kouhen'. (Interested in trading? ;) )

FeiFongWong
2004-06-04, 02:39
My spoiler for episode was a little misleading yes, just a little joke to mess with people's head. I'd hope no one took it the way it sounded, and figure out what you said in your spoiler on their own.

Dagger
2004-06-04, 11:10
I have also watched episode 8 and 9(raw), but in episode 8 I don't think she was upset, I think she was just surprised.

Heh... then I guess I must've misinterpreted her tears. Well, that's good to know. ^_^;

Broccoli
2004-06-04, 13:22
I have also watched episode 8 and 9(raw)
Looking at your handle, I'm guessing you can comprehend Chinese. There are at least two Chinese fansub groups working on Koikaze, one of which seems to be a speed subber and has incredible turnaround times. Usually Friday's episode is available Chinese-subbed by late Saturday or early Sunday. No reason to watch it raw if you would rather not.

PW_
2004-06-06, 01:45
Looking at your handle, I'm guessing you can comprehend Chinese. There are at least two Chinese fansub groups working on Koikaze, one of which seems to be a speed subber and has incredible turnaround times. Usually Friday's episode is available Chinese-subbed by late Saturday or early Sunday. No reason to watch it raw if you would rather not.

Hi Just wanted to ask what the 2 Chinese Fansubs were. Thanks

Broccoli
2004-06-06, 12:36
Hi Just wanted to ask what the 2 Chinese Fansubs were. Thanks
The speedsubber distributes using Bittorrent whereas the other uses ED2K only. Google for "bt" and "恋风". (Don't want to get my butt kicked for posting links. After all this forum is 'DVD & Licensed'.)

Z13LAZARUS
2004-06-06, 13:05
Wow, eps 10 raw looks to be even more "incredible" than 8.
Looks like Koshiro's co-workers put 2 and 2 together, and this eventually results in a violent arugent between that female co-worker and him. (Can't remember her name at all). Dmn, wish I knew Japanese. Arrg, those cliffhangers always get to me
And, on top of that, also ends in another frustrating cliffhanger.

Z13LAZARUS
2004-06-07, 14:55
According to the official website, the 5/21 episode (「風花」, Kazahana = 'Snowflakes') is really episode 9. For some reason TV Asahi skipped episode 8 (「露霜」, Tsuyujimo = 'Frozen Dew'), which will be shown on Kids Station on 6/8.

Tomorrow is the day... wonder what'll the fansubbers do...

Broccoli
2004-06-07, 17:15
Tomorrow is the day... wonder what'll the fansubbers do...
It's today. :) 6/8 at 00:00 JST, which was over 6 hours ago.

I'll check Winny and WinMX when I get home tonight to see if raws are out yet (probably not so soon).

The official site has a news release about making the missing episode available for streaming 6/8 through 6/22 'for the benefit of the folks who didn't get to see it on Kids Station.'

(Ahh, so you were the guy who posted to the a-s forum wondering if I was right or not.. :mad: )

Z13LAZARUS
2004-06-07, 20:14
(Ahh, so you were the guy who posted to the a-s forum wondering if I was right or not.. :mad: )

Ahhh... ...
...
...sorry to doubt you :heh:

(Wow, I totally forgot that Japan had a time difference. Sometimes I think I'll find myself blonde one morning :joke: )

Broccoli
2004-06-08, 00:56
The unaired episode is now available for viewing (Real) on Geneon Entertainment (http://www.geneon-ent.co.jp/rondorobe/anime/koikaze/news.html)'s site.

The episode has been divided up into two halves.

First half:
Broadband (http://asx.pod.tv/orca-real/pldc_rondorobe/040604bb_66HB.ram) Narrowband (http://asx.pod.tv/orca-real/pldc_rondorobe/040604nb_66HB.ram)

Second half:
Broadband (http://asx.pod.tv/orca-real/pldc_rondorobe/040605bb_WW20.ram) Narrowband (http://asx.pod.tv/orca-real/pldc_rondorobe/040605nb_WW20.ram)

Autumn
2004-06-09, 23:52
Thanks for the link.

Nanoka was so cute when she was a baby.

Broccoli
2004-06-10, 00:04
Hmm... it looks like there is no raw for the unaired episode. :(
Got 2 copies here, one in WMV and one in DivX, both on Monday night. You just have to know where to look. :naughty:

TronDD
2004-06-10, 00:05
Does someone want to do us ignorant folks a big favor and post a translation for the episode or at least give a summary?

On another note, I tried watching this with Real Alternative and got a slideshow of key frames. :twitch: Oh well, it works well enough since I can't understand what they are saying anyway. :)

EDIT: Ah, I see raws are indeed out there. I suppose it'll get subbed.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-06-10, 13:53
I am totally shocked. From episode 11+1, I don't really know what they said but it was clear that Koshiro and Nanoka...

willingly had sex or sexual pleasure together (they lay nakedly together).:sad: Grab the RAW when it is out. This really changes the course of the whole thing.

The OP was omitted in this episode.

Broccoli
2004-06-11, 01:30
From episode 11+1, I don't really know what they said but it was clear that Koshiro and Nanoka...

willingly had sex or sexual pleasure together (they lay nakedly together).:sad: Grab the RAW when it is out. This really changes the course of the whole thing.

Just finished watching it raw, and skimmed chapter 30 of the manga (Winny rocks). It seems that by now the anime has totally caught up with the manga, and then some.
Manga chapters 29 and 30 (the latest) talk about Nanoka visting Koushirou after he moved out, and leaves off with the two sleeping in the same futon, but unlike the anime episode, they are fully dressed.

When the camera focuses on the orange in the dark, the only dialogue that I can figure out is Nanoka saying 'Oniichan ga iin nara, watashi mo sorede ii'--'If it's okay with oniichan, it's also okay with me.' :heh:

The strange thing is, when Koushirou answers his father's phone call after they were shown hugging each other in the futon, he has shorts/underpants on, although Nanoka wraps herself in a sheet.

This episode kind of reminds me of the final ero scene in Kana ~Little Sister~...
Couldn't wait for the 'subs to come out!

golthin
2004-06-11, 08:48
True...she's 12 years younger than he is, and judging by the fact that she's in high school, if anything happened between them in many US states laws would go into effect (besides the fact they are related).

Well, at least nothing really happens. It's all inner suffering anyway (which is the best part, makes you wanna rip your heart out while watching it).
I believe she is 16 and he is 28, in Japan 16 is the age of concent and you can get married with the approval of you parents. I believe the manga stopped at a point where Sochiro and Nanoka both have already aknowledge their feelings, the next step is obvious and that is why the Manga stopped, the author didn't want his beautiful story to become porn(I am assuming this is why he stopped), the rest is left to the audience's imagination. what will a couple that have aknowledge that they love each other do? I believe there is a scene where Nanoka is trying some wedding dresses for the matching service souchiro work for, and Souchiro hugs and kiss here and tells her that he will always be with her.

golthin
2004-06-11, 08:56
Just finished watching it raw, and skimmed chapter 30 of the manga (Winny rocks). It seems that by now the anime has totally caught up with the manga, and then some.
Manga chapters 29 and 30 (the latest) talk about Nanoka visting Koushirou after he moved out, and leaves off with the two sleeping in the same futon, but unlike the anime episode, they are fully dressed.

When the camera focuses on the orange in the dark, the only dialogue that I can figure out is Nanoka saying 'Oniichan ga iin nara, watashi mo sorede ii'--'If it's okay with oniichan, it's also okay with me.' :heh:

The strange thing is, when Koushirou answers his father's phone call after they were shown hugging each other in the futon, he has shorts/underpants on, although Nanoka wraps herself in a sheet.

This episode kind of reminds me of the final ero scene in Kana ~Little Sister~...
Couldn't wait for the 'subs to come out!

Oh god! I need to get episode 11 raw, anyone can tell me where to get it,
the usual places where I got it are gone because of the ADV thing.

MrBrown
2004-06-11, 09:54
I believe the manga stopped at a point where Sochiro and Nanoka both have already aknowledge their feelings, the next step is obvious and that is why the Manga stopped, the author didn't want his beautiful story to become porn(I am assuming this is why he stopped), the rest is left to the audience's imagination. what will a couple that have aknowledge that they love each other do? I believe there is a scene where Nanoka is trying some wedding dresses for the matching service souchiro work for, and Souchiro hugs and kiss here and tells her that he will always be with her.

I think what makes the manga great is that it isn't some fairy story where _everything_ ends happily. In the end of the manga, both Nanoka and Koushiro (or whatever his name was, already forgot :>) clearly realized that if they want to continue with it, they are going to hurt all their friends and especially their parents, and that they can't continue on with their current lives. Although it isn't said straight out, it was pretty clear that they were going to run away somewhere else.

I don't know if 'beautiful' is a good way to describe the story... Maybe 'bitter sweet' would be better.

golthin
2004-06-11, 11:09
I think what makes the manga great is that it isn't some fairy story where _everything_ ends happily. In the end of the manga, both Nanoka and Koushiro (or whatever his name was, already forgot :>) clearly realized that if they want to continue with it, they are going to hurt all their friends and especially their parents, and that they can't continue on with their current lives. Although it isn't said straight out, it was pretty clear that they were going to run away somewhere else.

I don't know if 'beautiful' is a good way to describe the story... Maybe 'bitter sweet' would be better.

That seems to be the case of all incestous relationships, they do exist in the real world and at the end the only choice for the couple is moving away from anyone that know them and breaking all relationship with family members.

Broccoli
2004-06-11, 13:05
Oh god! I need to get episode 11 raw, anyone can tell me where to get it,
the usual places where I got it are gone because of the ADV thing.A certain 'l33t' place now has it. A dozen leechers and no seeds though.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-06-11, 15:32
For those who are dying of getting RAW, here are some screen captures.



http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/Koikaze11+1_01.jpg

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/Koikaze11+1_02.jpg

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/Koikaze11+1_03.jpg[/url]

Below images are after Koshiro answered a call from his father.

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/Koikaze11+1_04.jpg

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/Koikaze11+1_05.jpg


http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/Koikaze11+1_06.jpg[url="http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/Koikaze11+1_06.jpg"] (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/Koikaze11+1_03.jpg)


The manga is still going on and it is already two chapters beyond the compilation of volume 4. Chapter 31 will be published in less than two weeks.

The anime has used up the adapted scenes and words up to chapter 30 of the manga but the story is already far ahead than its manga counterpart. Let's see how it will end after they have gone that far, anything is possible because there is no more reference from the manga except flashback.

And what the author will do with the manga that needs 5 more chapters to complete volume 5? :frustrated:

Autumn
2004-06-12, 00:18
Whoa, another angsty episode. I was impatient, so i watched the episode 12 even though i dont know what they were saying. Anyway i got the gist of it. I was suprise at what happen this episode. And i was kinda of sad that this will definitely hurt their parents if they ever know.

Wilcon
2004-06-13, 09:32
Hmm... I'm glad I stopped watching this wicked anime after episode 5...

stardest17
2004-06-13, 13:26
Hmm... I'm glad I stopped watching this wicked anime after episode 5...

I don't think this is a wicked anime at all. I think that after everything, Koushiro and Nanoka are just two people who are attracted and in love with each other. They aren't hurting anyone. In the olden days, relatives, even siblings got married. (not that I'm for it this present time) but i think love conquers all, haha.

But anyway, if they end up being not blood-related and got together, that would be great. I'd rather have that than have them separate. I mean all that angst and suffering!

sarcasteak
2004-06-13, 14:11
Hmm... I'm glad I stopped watching this wicked anime after episode 5...
I don't see how it's wicked...>_>;;
Taboo, yes. Wicked, no. I find the story enjoyable, and no, I'm not interested in my little sister or trying to defend my lack of the society's moral standards.

Ffenix Rising
2004-06-14, 03:04
This series make me more of an anime fan than ever before. Why? Because with anime, you never know what type of situation they throw at you. Although there's at least one controversial anime every so often, the issues that they hit are rarely similar. Last year, with Narutaru, I did NOT expect the story to push the boundary of what I once thought was not possible to be shown in television.

Anyway, just like to throw that in... now Koikaze...

I've seen the raws and from what I could gather with my limited grasp in the Japanese language...

[possible spoilers ahead... maybe? ^^;]

Although it was already evident in previous episodes, I'm still a bit shocked at how Nanoka is so madly in love with Koushirou, especially when confronted with Koushirou's co-worker. It's a bit selfish on her part, but she does not care, she's just being honest about feelings.

I guess to a "normal" person, Nanoka's and Koushirou's situation should have a simple logical answer to their "problem." But I think it's already too late as evidenced at the end of episode 1. Koushirou has fallen madly in love with her half-sister, and perhaps likewise with Nanoka, and their carnal instincts have gotten the better of them. For the sake of their sanity, they had to succumb to what they feel is right, even though everyone around them says it is wrong.

But of course I think you all know that by now. ^^; (Sorry in advance if I regurgitated similar opinions prior to this one)

dreamless
2004-06-14, 08:20
KoiKaze is currently my most favorite "realistic everyday life anime" ever! It beats other animes of this type like Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien by far IMO, especially when it comes to how "real" and "natural" those situations and feelings are portrayed. I love how they make those little details and facial expressions and the voice acting is also perfect, which all makes it feel so much more like it's happening in the real world.

Wilcon
2004-06-14, 17:58
Actually I'm so disturbed by this because he is like more than twice her age and on top of that her brother. It also looks like she's underage... so it's just not only the incest... and I didn't like the maincharacter at all.

Although I'm not the person who stop looking at an anime in the middle(I have always finished it), so maybe I will contunue watching it later if it don't get too long.

dreamless
2004-06-14, 18:16
well, she is indeed underage by Japanese laws... she's 15...

hmm... by saying you don't like the main character, do you mean Koshiro or Nanoka?

I think the great thing about KoiKaze is not the incest or controversy, but how good and natural it shows the feelings of the characters in the anime develop. It never has any great tragedies or forced emotional scenes, yet it slowly reaches into your heart...

of course if you really feel offended by the incest and age issue, then maybe it could be a big problem, since the anime conveys the emotions and character development so well, it bounds to be VERY disturbing if you are against this kind of stuff...

Broccoli
2004-06-14, 22:17
well, she is indeed underage by Japanese laws... she's 15... Don't know if it matters or not, but she celebrates her birthday in epsiode 5, which would make her a year older.

I wonder if this series does get released in the US, will Nanoka turn 18/19 all of a sudden? :)

AnimeOni
2004-06-14, 22:30
Don't know if it matters or not, but she celebrates her birthday in epsiode 5, which would make her a year older.

I wonder if this series does get released in the US, will Nanoka turn 18/19 all of a sudden? :)
And they have to change the setting to WV, KY, or TN where incest is more appropriate :P Let's also give them the correct accents with the dub.
________
Honda h4a transmission history (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_H4A_transmission)

TrueKnight
2004-06-17, 05:21
geez, this anime is very disturbing, i'm guessing/assuming most of you people watching this dont have a sister? I managed to watch it to eps 4, but after seeing that eps, I immediately stopped watching. Well, maybe because I have a sister myself and the thought of me loving her not as a sister is just....utter despicable. Sure it's just a story, sure they've never met for years, but geez. They're like 100 % blood related. @_@;
I enjoyed sister princess, because there's a huge chance that they're not siblings, and also da capo. But this????? omg, incestious at the fullest.

that's my 2 cents.

Icer
2004-06-17, 05:47
I tried to watch it, got to episode 6 but I couldn't take it anymore. It's too weird in a disturbing sense for me...and I dont even have a sister.

Oh well, not my thing.

Archaic
2004-06-17, 09:17
well, she is indeed underage by Japanese laws... she's 15...

15's above legal age. Being under 16 though might mean her brother gets busted for "corrupting a minor", if someone cared enough to charge him, but those laws don't exist everywhere over here. And even where they do exist, they're not always enforced.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-06-17, 13:58
Finally it has ended. A fine real life anime, I will be sorely missing.


- Koshiro and Nanoka visited their mother the next day, hand in hand.
- Koshiro resigned from the company. Nanoka went to school as usual.
- One day they revistied that theme park and spent their time together playing and talking until the morning then go back to their respective houses. It was spring again and cherry blossom trees were in full bloom. A year had passed.

Happy ending. Life goes on.

-END-

stardest17
2004-06-17, 16:43
Finally it has ended. A fine real life anime, I will be sorely missing.


- Koshiro and Nanoka visited their mother the next day, hand in hand.
- Koshiro resigned from the company. Nanoka went to school as usual.
- One day they revistied that theme park and spent their time together playing and talking until the morning then go back to their respective houses. It was spring again and cherry blossom trees were in full bloom. A year had passed.

Happy ending. Life goes on.

-END-


What? What? What????? What does that mean??? That they are:

Together as in boyfriend girlfriend or something??
[/QUOTE]

HaRoRuleZ
2004-06-18, 06:49
For over 10 years, what had lost have been found, fulfilled, and flourished.
IMO, Nanoka had her big brother back into her life and Koshiro realized he had a tresurable sister to protect. A siblings reunion love story finally.

While watching last night (sacrificing two England's goals in second half for Koikaze), I thought Koshiro might fall of the roof and died, or both of them might be hit by a car at roadside and died.:heh:
I am satisfied with the ending. The background music is GREAT, will be waiting for the OST release on 7/23.

I got 5 versions of raw this morning. Downloaded at 100-700 kB/s in less than 5 minutes mostly. Here are some screen shots.


Hand in hand on the train, on the way to their mother's house.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoikazeFinal_01.jpg

Hand in hands at their mother's house
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoikazeFinal_02.jpg

Looking back to Nanoka's photos
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoikazeFinal_03.jpg

Spending a night talking at seaside after leaving their mother's house. Koshiro cried.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoikazeFinal_04.jpg

Dirt throwing at theme park, what had lost in their childhood. People were astonished with what they had seen.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoikazeFinal_05.jpg

Hiding and not leaving after the park closed, they spent their time in ferris wheel, wishing the wheel would rotate. A recall of their first dating.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoikazeFinal_06.jpg

Leaving the park next morning, they engraved their family names on a tree in front of the park. Under a house/umbrella sign, left; Kohinata (Nanoka's), right; Saeki (Koshiro's).
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoikazeFinal_07.jpg

Parting
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoikazeFinal_08.jpg

"Love you," said Koshiro to himself. A year had passed since their first dating.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/KoikazeFinal_09.jpg

Laurie-chan
2004-06-18, 10:27
Episode 13 was released yesterday of Koi Kaze, so episode 12 isn't the final episode

Archaic
2004-06-18, 17:14
It is for some reigons. Remember how some channels skipped episode 8 for some reason? They haven't caught up.

AnimeOni
2004-06-19, 00:43
Some channels did broadcast ep 8. Some groups named it as ep 7.5 so there will be 12 total eps. The actual count is 13 eps.
________
VTR1000F (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_VTR1000F)

PW_
2004-06-19, 03:26
Some channels did broadcast ep 8. Some groups named it as ep 7.5 so there will be 12 total eps. The actual count is 13 eps.

So there is going to be 13 episodes any idea whose going to sub the missing ones ???

TronDD
2004-06-19, 04:51
There is only one "missing" ep. It's been subbed in English by the same group that has done the rest. They released it as episode 7.5 yesterday.

HaRoRuleZ
2004-06-19, 06:42
The URL (http://www.geneon-ent.co.jp/rondorobe/anime/koikaze/) of Koikaze official site has been mentioned a few times before in this thread. Why don't you people pay a visit?

Herebelow is episode list from the site (http://www.geneon-ent.co.jp/rondorobe/anime/koikaze/news_schedule.html#tvasahi).

1. Broadcasted on TV Asahi, a free TV channel

● テレビ朝日 毎週木曜日 26:12~26:42 全12話放送予定
  01 4月 1日 初花 26:17~26:47
  02 4月 8日 春愁 26:22~26:52
  03 4月15日 薫風 26:12~26:42
  04 4月22日 夕立 26:38~27:08(通常より26分遅くなります)
  05 4月29日 遠雷 26:12~26:42
  06 5月 6日 秋思 26:12~26:42
  07 5月13日 初嵐 26:12~26:42
  08 5月20日 風花 26:12~26:42
  09 5月27日 寒月 26:12~26:42
  10 6月 3日 余寒 26:12~26:42
  11 6月10日 春雷 26:12~26:42
  12 6月17日 陽炎 26:12~26:42
       
2. Broadcasted on Kids Station, a cable channel

● キッズステーション 全13話放送予定
  毎週月曜日 24:00~24:30 , 28:30~29:00
  毎週日曜日 25:00~25:30
  01 4月19日 初花
  02 4月26日 春愁
  03 5月 3日 薫風
  04 5月10日 夕立
  05 5月17日 遠雷
  06 5月24日 秋思
  07 5月31日 初嵐
  08 6月 7日 露霜 ※キッズステーションのみの放送となります。 (Skipped episode on TV Asahi, named as fansubs episode 7.5)
  09 6月14日 風花
  10 6月21日 寒月
  11 6月28日 余寒
  12 7月 5日 春雷
  13 7月12日 陽炎

Just compare the episode title in two kanjis for the reference.

Having seen a TV program (http://www.fujitv.co.jp/moshimo/tour/040619/index.html) took a tour on the train line used in Koikaze today, I am planning to take a tour on that route too.

PW_
2004-06-19, 07:20
There is only one "missing" ep. It's been subbed in English by the same group that has done the rest. They released it as episode 7.5 yesterday.

Heheh..must be a bit lost today... :heh: thanks. It was right in front of my face and I didn't realise until I posted the message. Cheers!

Broccoli
2004-06-19, 12:16
Having seen a TV program (http://www.fujitv.co.jp/moshimo/tour/040619/index.html) took a tour on the train line used in Koikaze today, I am planning to take a tour on that route too.You mean the Enoden Line in Kanagawa? I rode it when visiting Kamakura last year. With my imouto too :) , although she was holding her husband's hand, not mine :( . I am not too sure if that train line was in the show. The car that I rode in was small and cramped, but that was probably one of the older ones the company has. But IIRC there were indeed wooden structures on some of the station platforms.

Za Paper
2004-06-19, 16:59
After watching ep 7.5, I think their relationship is even more problematic. I mean, he actually has memories of her as a little girl. It's one thing to fall in love with someone you dont know or remember, but he has vivid memories of her as his sister. Thats just makes the whole situation even more twisted.

Holy Knight
2004-06-20, 02:11
Yeah I agree. It just multiplied Koshiro's bullshit x10.

Broccoli
2004-06-20, 02:13
Updated 2004-07-03:
The a-s sub has been out for a few days now, which you are probably better off with. I am ceasing distribution of my translation. Also fairx's softsub link no longer works.

Updated 2004-06-21:
If you would rather have softsubs, please get the .srt file from fairx (see msg below for link).

For those who have gotten the raw final episode and can't wait for the fansub to be released, you can try my translated episode 13 script. But I'll most likely pull it after a-s releases the sub (if you get a broken link, that would be why).

This translation is based heavily (>90%) on the Chinese fansubs, with some minor editing on my part. Normally I detest such 'translations of a translation' (the manga scanlations are based on the Taiwanese Chinese edition, whose translation isn't bad but not literal enough, and it shows in the scanlated version), but I'll make an exception this time :) . There are a few important details in this episode that you are bound to miss if you don't understand the dialog (a couple of surprises that have yet to be discussed here.)

Disclaimer: Use at your own risk. I can't verify or guarantee its accuracy, but I think it's close enough. Also don't shoot me if the language is unidiomatic: my native languages are C and Perl, not English, Japanese or Chinese (heck, I don't even claim that I know these).

(I also have episode 12 typed up, but am hesitant about releasing it because some dialogues are rather tough to translate, and I am not at all satisfied with my renditions.)

marin
2004-06-20, 02:39
:twitch: :twitch:

HaRoRuleZ
2004-06-20, 05:59
You mean the Enoden Line in Kanagawa? I rode it when visiting Kamakura last year. With my imouto too :) , although she was holding her husband's hand, not mine :( . I am not too sure if that train line was in the show. The car that I rode in was small and cramped, but that was probably one of the older ones the company has. But IIRC there were indeed wooden structures on some of the station platforms.Yup, I rode that line in May 2000. It is about time to revisit with higher resolution digital camera. Information from some Japanese pages mentioned that line and a city there were the closest, remember the train imitation and the seaside ride.

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cpycomm/main/post/KoiKaze/EnodenLineTrain.jpg
Source: www.fujitv.co.jp (http://www.fujitv.co.jp/)


EDIT:

Thanks for the script.


"Committing suitside together," that seems to validate my feeling in my previous spoilers that they might die. Hail the animators.

Gorksnip
2004-06-20, 15:26
I just saw episode seven and one half. What's so controversial about it, bra? I thought there would be some nudity or something. You know, like the older brother has a wet dream or something. But nothing happens. So like, what's the problem with this episode, bra?

Devin
2004-06-20, 15:32
I just saw episode seven and one half. What's so controversial about it, bra? I thought there would be some nudity or something. You know, like the older brother has a wet dream or something. But nothing happens. So like, what's the problem with this episode, bra?

No, just the fact that Koshiro remembers Nanoka as a baby sister when he reminisced. So he can't deny the sibiling connection and it's role anymore.

fairx
2004-06-20, 18:33
well..

out of frustration to read the script while watching koi kaze raws.. i made up this *.srt subtitle based on broccoli ep 13 script. please bear with the slight improper timing (i made it right after grabbing the script LOL)..

grab here : > r/click . save target as.. (all files)koi_kaze_13.srt (http://ngox.pergh.com/koi_kaze_13.srt)



** thanks broccoli, gomen.., please let me noe if u want to pull this out of my server..

and love to have ep 12 script too!

*EDIT

done with ver2 of the srt... its fine now...

Broccoli
2004-06-20, 20:14
out of frustration to read the script while watching koi kaze raws.. i made up this *.srt subtitle based on broccoli ep 13 script. please bear with the slight improper timing (i made it right after grabbing the script LOL)..

Thanks for the work. Watched the first 5 minutes so far and it seems fine. This sounds like a new fansub group in the works. :rolleyes: I really hope not (at least not until I actually take some Japanese lessons first).

When I typed it up I didn't anticipate anyone making subtitles out of it, so sometimes I let multiple sentences spoken by the same person run on the same line, even if there are significant pauses in between. Sorry about that.

fairx
2004-06-20, 21:00
When I typed it up I didn't anticipate anyone making subtitles out of it, so sometimes I let multiple sentences spoken by the same person run on the same line, even if there are significant pauses in between. Sorry about that.

No problem at all... (its kinda fun doing sub timing.. its my first time too!) in fact, i'm the one who should apologize for using the script without permission first...

and yes it does make so much sense understanding what exactly the conversations means...

Koi Kaze is the most touching anime i've ever seen. Enough to make me download the raws.. LOL :)

stardest17
2004-06-20, 22:25
One scene in the last episode confused me. What does this mean?!



I think that Koushiro goes to his old house/Dad's house, in the name plate, there was a name that was obliterated. Senzou something - was that his dad's name? And why was that? Maybe his Dad found out what was going on with Koushiro and Nanoka?


Also what was going on between the two of them in the final episode?



Did they both decide to continue their "romantic relationship"? Why did Nanoka seemingly refuse to clean up at Koushiro's place? Is she still living with her Dad?

Broccoli
2004-06-21, 02:27
Just downloaded a 30-minute clip which pitches three new Geneon Entertainment anime series to be released this spring: Hanaukyou Maid Tai: La Verite (Hanaukyou Maid Team: La Vérité), Koikaze, and Kono Minikuku mo Utsukushii Sekai (This Ugly and Beautiful World). There are interviews with the key voice talents, but unfortunately I couldn't make much sense of it.

And here are the faces behind the scenes of Koikaze.

Miyake Kenta 三宅健太 - VA of Saeki Koushirou 佐伯耕四郎
http://home.comcast.net/~jsleung/miyake.jpg

Nakamura Yuki 中村有岐 - VA of Kohinata Nanoka 小日向七夏
http://home.comcast.net/~jsleung/nakamura.jpg

Okamura Akemi 岡村明美 - VA of Chidori Kaname 千鳥要
http://home.comcast.net/~jsleung/okamura.jpg

fairx
2004-06-21, 09:48
any chance for an ova of koi kaze?

Z13LAZARUS
2004-06-21, 12:14
Sorry for posting something so off-topic, but where are you guys getting the raw mangas? I checked out the "Where to buy manga" thread but it seemed to be mostly licensed stuff. I dont know a lick of written Japanese though...

Thanks

Yxy
2004-06-22, 08:29
The ending :

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER


So they carve their family names on that tree.
And they agree to come to the amusement park again in a year's time.
However, before that, a few men were talking about chopping down the row of trees and closing the park.
Did the two lovers know of this?
If not, the message will be that their relationship has no future at all...
The way I see the ending is that : they continue their affair secretly for as long as they can. Is this what you guys think?

Broccoli
2004-06-22, 09:39
The ending :

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

So they carve their family names on that tree.
And they agree to come to the amusement park again in a year's time.
However, before that, a few men were talking about chopping down the row of trees and closing the park.Good catch. I didn't make the connection until I was going through it a second time while preparing my script. :D And one of the suits was their father.
Did the two lovers know of this?Obviously not.
If not, the message will be that their relationship has no future at all...
The way I see the ending is that : they continue their affair secretly for as long as they can. Is this what you guys think? Many consider this an 'open ending', and it's up to each individual viewer to decide what happens next.

Broccoli
2004-06-22, 10:07
Sorry for posting something so off-topic, but where are you guys getting the raw mangas? I checked out the "Where to buy manga" thread but it seemed to be mostly licensed stuff. I dont know a lick of written Japanese though... :topicoff: I have been trying to ignore this, fearing that replying to it might get myself plonked. I tried PM but you have that turned off. Anyway...

You are not telling us where you are. Assuming you are in the U S of A, most major cities have a Japanese bookstore or two. Kinokuniya Bookstores of America (http://www.kinokuniya.com) has stores all along the west coast from Seattle to Los Angeles, and NYC, and a few even have this title in stock, or it can be special ordered. Otherwise, you can try ordering from their website. You can also try amazon.co.jp (http://www.amazon.co.jp), which has a half-assed, semifunctional English interface that assumes you are a gaijin in Japan shopping for English books.

Direct URLs:

Kinokuniya BookWeb
Volume 1 (http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cgi-bin/wshoseaohb.cgi?W-NIPS=9975645038&AREA=02) Volume 2 (http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cgi-bin/wshoseaohb.cgi?W-NIPS=9976401337&AREA=02) Volume 3 (http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cgi-bin/wshoseaohb.cgi?W-NIPS=997716164X&AREA=02) Volume 4 (http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cgi-bin/wshoseaohb.cgi?W-NIPS=9978119442&AREA=02)
Looks like they are all in stock.

Amazon.co.jp
Volume 1 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4063520048) Volume 2 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4063520153) Volume 3 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4063520153) Volume 4 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4063520617)

Good luck.

Devin
2004-06-22, 20:50
Is Koi Kaze's 13 episodes including the missing one?

fairx
2004-06-23, 02:10
Good catch. I didn't make the connection until I was going through it a second time while preparing my script. :D And one of the suits was their father.
Obviously not.
Many consider this an 'open ending', and it's up to each individual viewer to decide what happens next.

Watching ep 11 (10 from a-s title) and then 12 with chinese subs (which i cant understand at all), going to ep 13 which broccoli translated, left me in awe admiring their tough relationship... i felt sorry for them tho.. even Nanoka suggesting they end their relationship commiting suicide...(which i cannot compromise at all at any rate - in my belief), I respect Koushiro's will to live and face the consequences.

Again when they decided to revisited the birthplace of their love, sneaking until theyre completely left alone to enjoy complete freedom from regulations and rules, praying for something impossible to happens..I tought that was soo cool!

BTW, i think prior to the hidden message that their relationship has no future, I tought, since their father is the contractor(?) of the new Mall, he did mentioned about the tree need to be wiped out.. Will he found out about the carving? (even tho they only carve their family name..

BUT....!

when I got myself the a-s subs, it turns my point of view completely 180 degree! All I can see is, Its Koushiro's fault all the way from the beginning. He's weak. Heart and minds. They are couple (if not dozens) of chances that he could turn the situations back on its course.. but in the end he decided not to! I fully understand that "the age of consent" in Japan is 13, still, i fully agree with Chidori, Nanoka is still naive (exactly in the case of incest) and cannot value the situation in full grip.

Which come to my "second" opinions of the final episodes..

I am willing to give them a green to commit suicide, (regardless of my belief..) coz it will finish everything.. tho suicide is a sin, but considering they are Japanese (no offense) which historically, and spiritually, aren't that religious, then they can go to hell with peace.

But I suspected that Koushiro still wanted to squeeze it to the last juice of their relationship :fingers: ... KUSO!!!!!! (but... what makes with the "kuma" fingering scene?) :hmm:

The way I see it, the relationship is not gonna last long, just like the hints about promises and love umbrella carving.

Its the end of the forbidden love. Its just a case of "Genetic sexual attractions" http://www.geneticsexualattraction.com/

Nevertheless, Koi Kaze is a remarkable piece of anime. But I'm surprised there are no referral to GSA phenomenon in the entire series (did I missed something?).

13 episodes, 2 main char, plus 6 more as support, the show is brilliantly written and developed. Towards the end of the series, i began to understand the role of Koushiro and Nanoka friends. They are actually the missing part of themself. They show us comparatively the state of mind, desire and sometimes the dark side of Koushiro and Nanoka, in the most refined style.

Not to mentioned the music!! Awesome, it builds the right moods and feeling. And I respect the the opening sequence of Koi Kaze. Simple yet it gave the wierd sense of romance atmosphere. And the hints of the series are obvious toward the end of the OP. man.. I wish someday I can produce something as good as this one!

This show will always be remembered, (at least by me..) despite (and might be for) the much controversial storyline, I hope It will be the turning point for the society to realize the importance of further studying GSA and the countermeasure to prevent them. I have no objections regarding what kinda hell of relationships that happens in anime, but its saddens me if such things happens to people around me.

Thank God.. I have no sisters.. and my niece all live saperately wayyyyy... from me! LOL

kaitou_candy
2004-06-23, 10:07
this anime is not my cup of tea. coz i dun like incest -___-;;;

anyhow is pretty nice...but umm..is just wrong..i just watched ep 11.. and i can't believe what they did.. anyhow.. so yea

i hope the ending is sad and they break up, becoz of multiple reasons =)

sorry...

Mr.Minou
2004-06-23, 11:58
hm just to be sure... I don't remember well but, they are 100% blood related right ? same mother and father right ?

catcat
2004-06-23, 13:42
yup. same mother and father. 100% blood related.

Zap
2004-06-24, 14:05
Okamura Akemi 岡村明美 - VA of Chidori Kaname 千鳥要
http://home.comcast.net/~jsleung/okamura.jpg
Chidori was the co-worker, right? Hmmm, with a different haircut she'd actually look a bit like the character.

Zap
2004-06-24, 14:08
Whoops, hit the reply too quickly... more thoughts as I was reading this thread...

"anime, where no taboo is sacrosanct"

"all your repressed belong to me"

Sour-Do
2004-06-27, 14:11
yup. same mother and father. 100% blood related.Hm, it's fairly probable from the hospital scene in the unaired episode 7.5 that Nanoka's birth parents are the mother and father. But has anyone else considered that Koushiro might have been adopted? As far as I can tell from the anime, there's nothing to overrule this possibility, is there? (There's nothing to support this either.)

-- Sour-Do
Anime Muyou!

evil|plushie
2004-06-27, 15:06
-_- That's a pretty far out theory....

Broccoli
2004-06-29, 01:18
Got bored, so decided to look up who the mangaka was. Found this on the web: 吉田基已さんのプロフィール (http://sanisani.s29.xrea.com/ws/profile.html), the translation of which I am posting here.

(All names follow the Japanese convention of family name first.)

Profile of Yoshida Motoi

Sources:
Morning Online, Morning 1999 Issue 23 and self-declaration from the author, etc.

Yoshida Motoi
Female, born in 1976, currently residing in Kyōto.

Award history:
4th Manga Open
Received the "Watase Seizō Award" under the <Jury's Special Award Category>.
Award-winning work: Water and Silver

Comment from Watase Seizō
Each character has his/her own drama in itself, and the life-sized love of young people is expressed to the fullest. It can even reach a higher level if a bit more work/pep is put into the last scene.

Appeared in Morning 1998 Issue 43 published by Kōdansha
Created 2000.04.08; Last updated 2004.01.31 Copyright(C)Sanisani 2004 All rights Reserved
Note: Morning is one of Kōdansha's many comic magazines. Like Afternoon and Evening (in which Koikaze is being serialised), it's targeted at older readers.

(Many thanks to my sister Latte for helping with the translation.)

Leviathan926
2004-06-29, 01:21
Watching ep 11 (10 from a-s title) and then 12 with chinese subs (which i cant understand at all), going to ep 13 which broccoli translated, left me in awe admiring their tough relationship... i felt sorry for them tho.. even Nanoka suggesting they end their relationship commiting suicide...(which i cannot compromise at all at any rate - in my belief), I respect Koushiro's will to live and face the consequences.

Again when they decided to revisited the birthplace of their love, sneaking until theyre completely left alone to enjoy complete freedom from regulations and rules, praying for something impossible to happens..I tought that was soo cool!

BTW, i think prior to the hidden message that their relationship has no future, I tought, since their father is the contractor(?) of the new Mall, he did mentioned about the tree need to be wiped out.. Will he found out about the carving? (even tho they only carve their family name..

BUT....!

when I got myself the a-s subs, it turns my point of view completely 180 degree! All I can see is, Its Koushiro's fault all the way from the beginning. He's weak. Heart and minds. They are couple (if not dozens) of chances that he could turn the situations back on its course.. but in the end he decided not to! I fully understand that "the age of consent" in Japan is 13, still, i fully agree with Chidori, Nanoka is still naive (exactly in the case of incest) and cannot value the situation in full grip.

Which come to my "second" opinions of the final episodes..

I am willing to give them a green to commit suicide, (regardless of my belief..) coz it will finish everything.. tho suicide is a sin, but considering they are Japanese (no offense) which historically, and spiritually, aren't that religious, then they can go to hell with peace.

But I suspected that Koushiro still wanted to squeeze it to the last juice of their relationship :fingers: ... KUSO!!!!!! (but... what makes with the "kuma" fingering scene?) :hmm:

The way I see it, the relationship is not gonna last long, just like the hints about promises and love umbrella carving.

Its the end of the forbidden love. Its just a case of "Genetic sexual attractions" http://www.geneticsexualattraction.com/

Nevertheless, Koi Kaze is a remarkable piece of anime. But I'm surprised there are no referral to GSA phenomenon in the entire series (did I missed something?).

13 episodes, 2 main char, plus 6 more as support, the show is brilliantly written and developed. Towards the end of the series, i began to understand the role of Koushiro and Nanoka friends. They are actually the missing part of themself. They show us comparatively the state of mind, desire and sometimes the dark side of Koushiro and Nanoka, in the most refined style.

Not to mentioned the music!! Awesome, it builds the right moods and feeling. And I respect the the opening sequence of Koi Kaze. Simple yet it gave the wierd sense of romance atmosphere. And the hints of the series are obvious toward the end of the OP. man.. I wish someday I can produce something as good as this one!

This show will always be remembered, (at least by me..) despite (and might be for) the much controversial storyline, I hope It will be the turning point for the society to realize the importance of further studying GSA and the countermeasure to prevent them. I have no objections regarding what kinda hell of relationships that happens in anime, but its saddens me if such things happens to people around me.

Thank God.. I have no sisters.. and my niece all live saperately wayyyyy... from me! LOL

wow thats a really deep analysis. you took it from a scientific standpoint. about GSA and all... I looked at it from a literary point of view. like the metaphors and foreshadowing going on in the movie. haven't finished watching it like you have, so i won't comment on anything; but the most obvious motif seen in the series is the teddy bear. The exhange of that shows role reversal; and that's a predominate motif in the story.

Dynamic character development is what's intriuging as well as the transferance of roles/behaviors. great drama flick in the final episodes. but Kimi ga Nozomu Eien is still my favorite.

Bullsquat
2004-07-01, 14:10
I haven't seen all the episodes but I did watch the ending in its entirety because I was just that curious. This is by far, the most shocking anime I've ever seen. It left me feeling uncomfortable the rest of the night. This is coming from a guy who loves the shoujo-ai genre.

Another fine example of how boundless anime is. They sure know how to push your buttons.

TronDD
2004-07-01, 16:01
But I'm surprised there are no referral to GSA phenomenon in the entire series (did I missed something?).

Did you miss the whole series? The whole thing was an illustration of GSA. Just becaues it was never directly spoken about by the characters doesn't mean it wasn't there.

I hope It will be the turning point for the society to realize the importance of further studying GSA and the countermeasure to prevent them.

Or accept it.

I have no problem with sibbling romance. I would just hope they'd be responsible enough to not conceive children since it would be rather unfair to them, given the chances of bad genes becoming dominant.

EDIT: Here's an interesting statement about the criminalization of incestuous conception and genetic risks:

"Genetic experts argue that the chances of having a genetically damaged child are less than those of a woman over 40 having a Downs child- and “you don’t prosecute women over 40 for getting pregnant”. "

Devin
2004-07-01, 19:28
Now that I finished the series, I have several questions and afterthoughts, feel free to discuss about them!

#1. What do you guys think is the moral of this anime's story? Is it about handling self-control/willpower, is about "love should not be discriminated?", "you should not love your sibiling that way, or you will have no happy future"?

#2. Do you think Koshiro would have fell in love with Nanoka even if they didn't meet by chance in the first episode and developed that bond in the ferris wheel? Meaning, he never met Nanoka until she moved into their father's house, then would the Genetic Sexual Attraction theory still apply?

#3. Do you think Koshiro at least used a condom in episode 11? If he did not, then that's just totally despicable. I mean I can understand if he just kissed her, but it was just unforgivable to take advantage of Nanoka's feelings for him by sleeping with her, and to not even consider safe sex... He knew it was wrong to do it in the first place, and Nanoka being so young(yes even though Japan is liberal about sex), she's still only 16 years old for Christ's sake. I mean, what if she gets pregnant, being still in high school and all? After that episode, I totally lost any form of sympathy for Koshiro, all I have is loathing for him now.

TronDD
2004-07-01, 19:49
#1: I think the series focused more on what love is. Koshiro had never known real love "from the bottom of his heart" and had troubles dealing with those feelings once he did have them. The fact that it's his sister is just another wrench in the gears. It makes you weigh the good and bad between 'a man finding true love' and 'a man in love with his sister'. Was it a good thing or a bad thing for him?

The show wsan't so much about: "is incest right or wrong?"

The show also did a good job of not showing just what could happen to a couple in that situation. His co-worker spoke her mind but she still wished him the best. No one else knows about it. The show stayed pretty neutral and just left it up to the viewer (the park and trees slated to be removed, the scene with their mother, etc)

#2: No idea. That's interesting because he first enjoys her company without knowing their relation. If he know of it first, would his rational mind, already with the idea "incest is wrong", block his affection? Once you do have feelings for someone, will anything stop them?

#3:
I kinda of feel the same way about that event as you do. It bothers me. However, I don't think you can really say he took advantage of her. I didn't see her complain about it.

Your (and my) issues with that event are your own personal opinions. In the real world, 16 year old girls have sex for less. And he loves her more than a 16 year old boy would.

Devin
2004-07-02, 23:53
#3:
I kinda of feel the same way about that event as you do. It bothers me. However, I don't think you can really say he took advantage of her. I didn't see her complain about it.

Your (and my) issues with that event are your own personal opinions. In the real world, 16 year old girls have sex for less. And he loves her more than a 16 year old boy would.

It's still true that he loves her. Even though she didn't complain, and it was consentual, she still lost her innocence and purity nevertheless, and in such a young age too. I think pedo bothers me more then incest heh...

Devin
2004-07-03, 01:33
Could there possibily be another hidden meaning in the last episode?

When Nanoka and Koshiro played with the mud and got dirty, does this symbolize that they've been tainted, or at least the society view them as tainted/unclean? Since the other people near the playground looked at them in mild disbelief(of course they thought it was abnormal to play like that when you are already grown up, but they'd be shocked too if they knew their true relationship :heh: ) What do you think this could be another hidden meaning?


Besides that, i totally agree from the trees that will be cut down to provide more room for a shopping mall(one of them had Nanoka and Koshiro's names scrippled on it) symbolizes an inevitable end and an impossible future for their relationship.

Bullsquat
2004-07-03, 01:59
Could there possibily be another hidden meaning in the last episode?

When Nanoka and Koshiro played with the mud and got dirty, does this symbolize that they've been tainted, or at least the society view them as tainted/unclean? Since the other people near the playground looked at them in mild disbelief(of course they thought it was abnormal to play like that when you are already grown up, but they'd be shocked too if they knew their true relationship :heh: ) What do you think this could be another hidden meaning?

That is a very interesting theory. This scene keeps playing back in my mind for some reason. When I first saw it, what came out of my mind is Nanoka and Koshiro finally completely absolving themselves from the norm of society. They are being abnormaly playful with each other, ignoring their surroundings despite the glaring eyes of the public. To me it is a symbol of the end of their mental progression, or should I say regression. From denial, confusion, to finally complete ignorance.

TronDD
2004-07-03, 02:17
One can really read anything they want into those scenes.

The mud scene could symbolize that, despite their "dirty" relationship, they are still having fun. They have acheived what they wanted and needed.

Carving their name on the trees about to be cut down can symbolize, not a destined failure, but hope despite insurmountable odds.

The mud and cutting of the trees = society's condemnation of their love, yet the couple still strives to keep it and strengthen it.

Bullsquat: Ignorance of what?

Bullsquat
2004-07-03, 02:45
Ignorance of society's norm. Like I said, its like the end of a progression. In the beginning, Koshiro denies his feelings because its abnormal, then he becomes confused. In the end he no longer cares for what is anomalous and chooses his twisted and wicked heart.

I thought this scene shows their defiance towards society in its entirety.

It's a powerful scene but frankly it irked me. It would have looked strange in my eyes too,an older man with an underaged girl playing like that.

relentlessflame
2004-07-03, 03:05
#2. Do you think Koshiro would have fell in love with Nanoka even if they didn't meet by chance in the first episode and developed that bond in the ferris wheel? Meaning, he never met Nanoka until she moved into their father's house, then would the Genetic Sexual Attraction theory still apply?
Yes, I think it would be quite possible, because there are a number of other contributing factors as well. One of the things about GSA is that it very rarely occurs in what we would generally consider a normal family relationship. If someone were to watch this anime and think oh my god, how can they do that; that's sick!!!, they'd have to completely overlook all the character development and plot. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that incest is good or anything, but this is hardly what you'd call a normal family.

WARNING: Some psychobabble follows... those who are allergic to such things, please consider yourself warned... ;)

1. Both Koushiro and Nanoka have some pretty severe emotional baggage left from their parents' divorce. Koushiro has an emotional disconnect; he feels like an outsider observing the emotional events in his life, and his job allows him largely to observe the emotional events in others' lives. Nanoka has a need for male affection; in the show, they call it a "brother complex", but it was (at least arguably) brought about by lack of a father in her life. (NOTE: Although this is common psychological theory, it may or may not be politically correct in all circles; I apologize if this offends someone.)

2. Koushiro and Nanoka have been separated for most their lives. There is a huge difference between the Nanoka Koushiro remembers as a child, and the one that stands before him in the show, and vice-versa. The fact that he remembers her has a child doesn't really establish the emotional bond that defines a sibling relationship. What they have is knowledge of their blood connection, but no feeling of it. This is why Koushiro is so troubled for most of the show; he knows that what they're doing is wrong, but can't change the way he feels, and likewise for Nanoka. In the end their feelings win out, as is almost always the case for everyone. For all intents and purposes, they are only related by blood; obviously that's enough to make you related, but it's not enough to make you feel related.

3. As a result of their psychological baggage and their reunion after a long seperation, they immediately felt a strong connection to each other; it was as if they found a missing part of themselves. There is no question in my mind that they truly believe that they love each other. Because their connection is so sudden and strong, and they don't know how to express love as siblings, it is not that surprising that their feelings would turn towards romantic love. It is not just arbitrary that Koushiro would say "If I have you, I don't need anything else"; that is truly how he felt.
So I think their romantic first encounter certainly did help set the stage for a romantic relationship later on (it may have introduced the idea of a romantic relationship in their minds), but I think the foundation was already there.

This show is the very definition of an adult romantic drama, because it requires the viewer to have a great deal of emotional empathy in order to relate to characters. It's not like most romantic animes, where the main character and setting is usually generic enough so that the viewer has at least some way to relate. You aren't expected to be able to relate to these characters, which is why there is a lot of backstory and character development to help out. This makes the show much harder to appreciate and understand, but also much more rewarding. This is why I say that people who scream and yell incest!!! at the top of their lungs regarding this show are missing the point (or perhaps the point of the point?) That being said, I do understand why - this is hard show if you want to really understand it.

I agree with TronDD; the entire show was a character study about Genetic Sexual Attraction, as it has all of the typically essential elements: psychological baggage, long period of separation, fateful reunion, etc. Unlike Da Capo, which toyed with the notion of what defined a sibling relationship, and Onegai Twins, with used it more a bait to keep the show going, Koi Kaze is a real attempt to explore the psychological and emotional struggles associated with this phenomenon.

relentlessflame
2004-07-03, 03:11
I thought this scene shows their defiance towards society in its entirety.
Well, in spite of my huge long post full of "psychobabble" above, I had a much simpler view of this scene. ;)
I think it's just to show that they're having fun as a couple, after being conflicted for so long. They're simply enjoying each other. That, in and of itself, I think, is a big enough statement without having to look much deeper.

Devin
2004-07-03, 05:55
Yes, I think it would be quite possible, because there are a number of other contributing factors as well. One of the things about GSA is that it very rarely occurs in what we would generally consider a normal family relationship. If someone were to watch this anime and think oh my god, how can they do that; that's sick!!!, they'd have to completely overlook all the character development and plot. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that incest is good or anything, but this is hardly what you'd call a normal family.

WARNING: Some psychobabble follows... those who are allergic to such things, please consider yourself warned... ;)

1. Both Koushiro and Nanoka have some pretty severe emotional baggage left from their parents' divorce. Koushiro has an emotional disconnect; he feels like an outsider observing the emotional events in his life, and his job allows him largely to observe the emotional events in others' lives. Nanoka has a need for male affection; in the show, they call it a "brother complex", but it was (at least arguably) brought about by lack of a father in her life. (NOTE: Although this is common psychological theory, it may or may not be politically correct in all circles; I apologize if this offends someone.)

2. Koushiro and Nanoka have been separated for most their lives. There is a huge difference between the Nanoka Koushiro remembers as a child, and the one that stands before him in the show, and vice-versa. The fact that he remembers her has a child doesn't really establish the emotional bond that defines a sibling relationship. What they have is knowledge of their blood connection, but no feeling of it. This is why Koushiro is so troubled for most of the show; he knows that what they're doing is wrong, but can't change the way he feels, and likewise for Nanoka. In the end their feelings win out, as is almost always the case for everyone. For all intents and purposes, they are only related by blood; obviously that's enough to make you related, but it's not enough to make you feel related.

3. As a result of their psychological baggage and their reunion after a long seperation, they immediately felt a strong connection to each other; it was as if they found a missing part of themselves. There is no question in my mind that they truly believe that they love each other. Because their connection is so sudden and strong, and they don't know how to express love as siblings, it is not that surprising that their feelings would turn towards romantic love. It is not just arbitrary that Koushiro would say "If I have you, I don't need anything else"; that is truly how he felt.
So I think their romantic first encounter certainly did help set the stage for a romantic relationship later on (it may have introduced the idea of a romantic relationship in their minds), but I think the foundation was already there.

This show is the very definition of an adult romantic drama, because it requires the viewer to have a great deal of emotional empathy in order to relate to characters. It's not like most romantic animes, where the main character and setting is usually generic enough so that the viewer has at least some way to relate. You aren't expected to be able to relate to these characters, which is why there is a lot of backstory and character development to help out. This makes the show much harder to appreciate and understand, but also much more rewarding. This is why I say that people who scream and yell incest!!! at the top of their lungs regarding this show are missing the point (or perhaps the point of the point?) That being said, I do understand why - this is hard show if you want to really understand it.

I agree with TronDD; the entire show was a character study about Genetic Sexual Attraction, as it has all of the typically essential elements: psychological baggage, long period of separation, fateful reunion, etc. Unlike Da Capo, which toyed with the notion of what defined a sibling relationship, and Onegai Twins, with used it more a bait to keep the show going, Koi Kaze is a real attempt to explore the psychological and emotional struggles associated with this phenomenon.

Very detailed and thorough analysis, RelentlessFlame. But Nanoka and Koshiro's future seems grim... Even though they've finally acknowledged their feelings for each other, can their romance have a future at all? In the last episode, the tree that the siblings wrote their names on will be cut down in the future. This most certainly symbolizes that their relationship will eventually be over? Whether willingly or by force?

It's ironic how people might interpret the the ending to be one of hope and optimsim. But the secret message of the tree surely suggests otherwise.

relentlessflame
2004-07-03, 10:58
The show never makes any direct statement about their future. One can interpret the ending any way they want. I think most people are concluding a hopless future because they are already put off by the incestuous relationship. They don't want them to succeed. Or at least, even if they are accepting of their incest, they know society in general is not and think it's better that they stopped.
I think you're right. You can interpret the ending however you'd like (I think it was done on purpose that way), but they really don't give you any clear indication of what the future may bring. What was absolutely key about the ending, I think, was the very last words from Koushiro: "I love you". It was the resolution of the conflicting thoughts and emotions he had been feeling throughout the show; he was finally able to accept that he loved her. The only thing that I think is clear about the future of their relationship is it's uncertainty, ironically enough. But, the key for this show was to resolve his feelings for her, and I think they left it open enough so they could do a second season, if they so chose.

Edit: That's odd... at least on my computer, my post shows up before the post I was replying to, and with an earlier time.... weird...

TronDD
2004-07-03, 11:37
In the last episode, the tree that the siblings wrote their names on will be cut down in the future. This most certainly symbolizes that their relationship will eventually be over? Whether willingly or by force?

It's ironic how people might interpret the the ending to be one of hope and optimsim. But the secret message of the tree surely suggests otherwise.

The show never makes any direct statement about their future. One can interpret the ending any way they want. I think most people are concluding a hopless future because they are already put off by the incestuous relationship. They don't want them to succeed. Or at least, even if they are accepting of their incest, they know society in general is not and think it's better that they stopped.

Bullsquat: Ignorant isn't the right word. Indifference, maybe?

Broccoli
2004-07-03, 14:25
With all the speculation that went on (before the final episodes were broadcast) about how the series would end, and discussions about the meaning of final episode and what's supposed to happen after that, :thinker: I couldn't help but think Koikaze would be ideal material for a ren'ai simulation game. There are tons of scenarios that I can turn into decision points, if I were to write such a game...

Come to think of it, they can even make a girl's version of it, where the player can role-play Nanoka. :) Now that would be fun.

On the other hand, it's not like we are lacking such games.

Leviathan926
2004-07-03, 14:35
bah. ignorance and indifference are the same thing wtf is wrong with you bullsquat.

Interesting discussion going on there about psychological baggage and the tainted mudfight. I don't see the point of hiding those spoiler infos cos i believe most people that visit this site have already seen the series or know they are inevitably going to get spoilers regarding the series...

anyway, the ending was a great dissapointment. it just sets the pavement to a new season or other OVA's. In episode 11, when koushirou says that things will "be different from now on" (now that they are in love) I thought they would move away somewhere far away abandoning their former lives and banished away from the norms of society.
however, the ending states that its too much of a compromise and that the alternatives are too absurd. and so, everything returns BACK TO NORMAL as if NOTHING HAPPENDED between them. which is whats so bogus about it.

moral of the story? An adult romance anime that primarily depicts the ineffable and regressive character of a typical male figure-head and how diffucult it is to express themselves. i enjoyed it overall though, don't get me wrong. just the ending was kinda bad.

relentlessflame
2004-07-03, 22:01
The point in using spoiler tags is that some people may click on this thread looking for general opinions about the show and to learn more about it. Since not everyone who clicks on the thread has seen the series, we use spoiler tags.

anyway, the ending was a great dissapointment. it just sets the pavement to a new season or other OVA's. In episode 11, when koushirou says that things will "be different from now on" (now that they are in love) I thought they would move away somewhere far away abandoning their former lives and banished away from the norms of society.
however, the ending states that its too much of a compromise and that the alternatives are too absurd. and so, everything returns BACK TO NORMAL as if NOTHING HAPPENDED between them. which is whats so bogus about it.

moral of the story? An adult romance anime that primarily depicts the ineffable and regressive character of a typical male figure-head and how diffucult it is to express themselves. i enjoyed it overall though, don't get me wrong. just the ending was kinda bad.
I disagree, because things are different now. Koushirou has already quit his job, and they have already begun their physical romantic relationship. Things are changing. But, rather than "running away", they decided that, at least for now, Nanoka's normal life must go on. If anything, I thought this was a more realistic and level-headed approach to the dilemma, which is perhaps less dramatic then we may have hoped, but much closer to the feel of the rest of the show. I have to admit that I was surprised that the ending was so low key, and I agree that they obviously are leaving the door open for a sequel, but I didn't think the ending was bad. It resolves the plot, but opens the door to a whole new one.

Devin
2004-07-04, 00:41
Here's what i like to ask everyone. What would you have done if you were in Koshiro's (if you're a guy) or Nanoka's (if you're a girl) shoes? Would you have walked the same path as they did?

stardest17
2004-07-04, 08:27
Here's what i like to ask everyone. What would you have done if you were in Koshiro's (if you're a guy) or Nanoka's (if you're a girl) shoes? Would you have walked the same path as they did?

As a girl, I would say yes. Sometimes, the feelings are just so strong that anything practical, levelheaded and sanity is washed away - at least that's how I am! :innocent:

TronDD
2004-07-04, 10:53
Well I probably would never end up in their situation. :)

If I did, screw what anyone else thinks. I don't think there is anything wrong with their relationship.

Bullsquat
2004-07-04, 11:03
bah. ignorance and indifference are the same thing wtf is wrong with you bullsquat.

Er...what? Did I say anything about indifference?

Here's what i like to ask everyone. What would you have done if you were in Koshiro's (if you're a guy) or Nanoka's (if you're a girl) shoes? Would you have walked the same path as they did?

Anyway, if it was me, I'm sure I'll be able to restrain myself. I would prolly look in the mirror and realize how sick it all is.

Edit: Bah, I've never said anything about ignorance and indifference being different. Read the posts before you start flaming me. It was someone else's suggestion and frankly, I don't know if they mean the same or not, I don't have a dictionary.

Leviathan926
2004-07-05, 12:01
Er...what? Did I say anything about indifference?



Anyway, if it was me, I'm sure I'll be able to restrain myself. I would prolly look in the mirror and realize how sick it all is.

Edit: Bah, I've never said anything about ignorance and indifference being different. Read the posts before you start flaming me. It was someone else's suggestion and frankly, I don't know if they mean the same or not, I don't have a dictionary.

thorry thorry my bad. i misread. u call dat flaming? nah~ don't think of it dat way. don't take it pesonally

hmmm. tanx for da feedback though i still think the ending is still a stopping point and nothing changed. well, except maybe they get along alot better. other than that, they are still living their normal lives, unperturbed by the great controversial bonding they just had. (incest: its forbidden not only by norms of society but also by nature) And for that, i can't help but be a little dissapointed at how dull it turned out to be.

TronDD
2004-07-05, 12:29
incest: its forbidden ... by nature

Where the hell did you come up with that idea? Incest happens in nature all the time. Animals sure don't care about social stigma or rare possibilities of genetic defects.

And ignorance and indifference are not even close to being the same thing.

Konex
2004-07-05, 14:35
I thought the ending was decent but I really expected a more dramatic conclusion. Still a great show though :)

BTW, is there a soundtrack? The music was completely awesome :)

Za Paper
2004-07-05, 18:30
Where the hell did you come up with that idea? Incest happens in nature all the time. Animals sure don't care about social stigma or rare possibilities of genetic defects.

And ignorance and indifference are not even close to being the same thing.

Maybe not forbidden but looked upon highly unfavorably by nature. Diversity and genetic variation gives a species the best chance for survival. Incest essentially decreases your chance of survival because not only are you limiting genetic variation but you also allow genetic diseases to surface further decreasing your chances for survival. Most mammalian species avoid mating with relatives if possible.

TronDD
2004-07-05, 18:36
Maybe not forbidden but looked upon highly unfavorably by nature.

True, but given limited choices, reproducing is better than not. They "take the chance" because numbers = survival.

Onizuka-GTO
2004-07-06, 08:10
With all the speculation that went on (before the final episodes were broadcast) about how the series would end, and discussions about the meaning of final episode and what's supposed to happen after that, :thinker: I couldn't help but think Koikaze would be ideal material for a ren'ai simulation game. There are tons of scenarios that I can turn into decision points, if I were to write such a game...

Come to think of it, they can even make a girl's version of it, where the player can role-play Nanoka. :) Now that would be fun.

On the other hand, it's not like we are lacking such games.


OH YES! i really hope they make a H-game out of this!!

I want to see Koshiro g oafter Chidori his co-worker!!!! She's so hot!!!

:)

As for all the psychobabbling about GSA, it's cool story, i really like it. Sure it disturbed me just as much, since im the oldest sibling with two younger sisters (16 & 18) but that is expected as i read somewhere in some psychobabble thingy.
But i agree its frown upon by society because of the possibility of defected offaprings, as long as they're responsible, loving, couple. I don't think you can do anything about it, or say anything. If your going to object to this ,you have to object to homosexuality, Transexuality, bisexuality, and asexuality hell just prusecute them all why dont you.
GSA is a really disorder/condition eventually they will have arguments, affairs, break up and sue each other.

so its all good.
:heh:

Yxy
2004-07-06, 09:00
LOL I want an OVA of this :D :D

... eventually they will have arguments, affairs, break up and sue each other.

so its all good.
:heh:

terminator2k2
2004-07-13, 13:34
do anyone have koi kaze wallpapers?^^

Isochroma
2004-07-15, 20:32
Wow! What an incredible series!

I am really impressed by the beauty the creators tried to infuse into this heart-wrenching romance. The music perfectly complements every scene's mood...

As for the relationship, what makes me most sad is that Koshiro took far, far too long to be honest with himself about his attraction to Nanoka. He hurt her so badly that I'm amazed she persisted for so long.

I don't understand why the creators of this series would draw Koshiro's negative response pattern out so long? Why did they have to let him tear her heart for so long, tear my heart for so long?

Nanoka is so pure of heart! She hardly deserves such a fool for a love... She is truly Koshiro's therapist, and her total innocence and open heart eventually win as he starts to open up to her.

Nanoka's strength amazes me - right up to the confrontation with Chidori in episode 11, she won't let her true love get away - and she won't let Chidori have him, either.

Perhaps it is time to raise the level of thought on this thread?

Though their union is asymmetrical in many ways, it is Nanoka's strength and will that brings them together. She has true emotional strength; Koshiro is very weak in this area.

Now I'll explain my thoughts on this kind of relationship.

True love from the heart is such a precious thing... how can outsiders judge relationships like this one? It is truly up to those involved to be the judges of their best interests.

Nanoka is highly intelligent, and I am absolutely positive that she is capable of making such decisions with both her mind, and her beautiful heart!

It is now time for humanity to be true to its heart, it is time for us to see the light in everyone, and to respect people's love. We must make big changes to the way we think of others, and especially young people if we are to survive as a species.

It is time we saw the young as they really are: very intelligent, though inexperienced people with some of the most open minds, hearts & spirits of anyone alive! They are more than our future, they are the lifeline of our existence as a species and so much more... the joyous carriers of superconsciousness and energy without bounds.

I see a future where everyone can follow the path with heart;
I see an open-ended future where we care so much more about ourselves, our planet, our future!
I see a place where kids like Nanoka can safely be themselves, and follow their true desires without fear, without the need of inhibitions that were designed to repress.

I see an alternate story, where Koshiro didn't have to be so angry at himself. Where they played in the sun that summer. He held her hands and they spun around until they were too dizzy, and collapsed on the park lawn! They ran on the beach, and were dazzled by hot rays of sun. They made a sand castle, too! They talked so much more, as well, about what's really important to their lives.

In my story, their love flourished from the beginning, and was so much stronger for it. I think that later, she found a young guy to love too, and they gradually became just brother and sister again. Who can say?

When we truly care about ourselves, we will make a world where everyone can fulfill their true potential, and every other species on this beautiful planet can live in harmony with us.

I think it is time for us to discuss the emotional vibrancy, the supreme intelligence of the heart. How can we open a space to discuss this and other points, to help our societies move forward? How can we move from a point where our rationally irrational defences can be brought down, to the point where new learning can happen? Please help me to answer these questions, because I know that each one of you out there has some piece, big or small, that can help!

We have been blessed by some of the most creative people anywhere, working together to make such a beautiful story that, while also heart-rending, shows a way forward. Though I don't know how the future will turn out for Nanoka and Koshiro, I think they will do just fine. In fact, I hope the creators see it in their hearts to make a second series and manga, to explore the many possibilities and the heart-pounding emotional intensity and vibrancy of such a unique relationship!

It is time for everyone to look carefully inside themselves, and I think that should start with you!

Look inside, and see what care you really have... Turn your back on the conditioning and intellectual ideas that have been pounded into your head by too many years of coercion by society. I know its hard, but maybe it is now time, after so many years, to really know yourself, and reflect the inner light outward - to make of this world the paradise that today, can only be imagined. That today, sometimes flows from the pens, hearts and minds of manga and anime artists.

By turning around, you can face the warm rays of sunshine, the eternal light of the heart which shines always for those that are willing to open their eyes to see. Know that the Japanese are a bit (just a bit) ahead of other parts of the world because of their culture, something unique, perhaps. Please know that we can all be this way, that we all walk the same path; just now we are at different points. Right now, we can be dazzled by the bright, colourful world they have worked so hard to imagine for us, shining with new hope and filled with promise.

The light which infuses all of anime in every form, even the silly stuff - is just part of why it is so liked by the rest of the world. We are really just seeing the light of their hearts, the openness of their minds. Just like the young, their culture is willing to explore so many possibilities. It is truly the land of the rising sun, in so many ways.

Thank you everyone, for the many posts that have made this discussion worth pursuing. Know also, that your sickness and revulsion, like Koshiro's, is from a denial of the heart. To everyone in this discussion who has such things in their heart, I will give you what you so much need: a hug! Please cry for me, just a few tears... it will help so much!

I love you all, regardless.
I won't give up, either - just like Nanako!

Thanks for your time, an I hope you wonderful people can help open up a new place to share ideas about how we can make our world a better place! Especially for the young, (I'm 26) who carry such a burden so needlessly. I lived too many of my years with a closed heart, but now I see why this has been destroying me, and why it is also destroying our lives and our planet.

My favorite part of Koi Kaze is the scene at the beginning of each series, where Nanoka pets the cat. It's just one small thing, but it means so much and is such an integral part of who she is. She is so alive, that it makes me cry to think of her. I can't keep writing because I'll start crying...

Jason L.

Jiji
2004-07-21, 00:17
Here's what i like to ask everyone. What would you have done if you were in Koshiro's (if you're a guy) or Nanoka's (if you're a girl) shoes? Would you have walked the same path as they did?

Many people's replies to Devin and other things written in the forum indicates that they think that Koushiro's choices were the easy ones. I have to disagree.

If it were me, I hope that I would have the guts to be honest with my heart and admit my love for my little sister. But I suspect that I would take the coward's way out and discourage Nanoka and run from the whole situation. >sigh<

Some of you seem to disagree, but I don't find Koushiro to be stupid--his treatment of Nanoka was his ongoing internal agony over knowing full well what was going to happen if he admitted his love for her. He had several chances to run from it. Courageously, he didn't. I am uncomfortable with the incest (I kept hoping for a suprise revelation of adoption), but this story is about (I believe) Koushiro's journey as a person. He started as a cold fish and found love and opened his heart by the end.

I know I've garnered the wrath of the Nanoka fans out there, but the "progress" of her character was minimal compared to Koushiro's--though I admit she changed also. Just not as much.

Well, anyway...

fairx
2004-07-21, 00:46
Sashiburi...

I don't have anything to write about.

I'm impress that there are still discussions about this.

Keep em coming guys..

I'm sure enjoy reading all the comments and thought.

-Isochroma-

"Thanks for your time, an I hope you wonderful people can help open up a new place to share ideas about how we can make our world a better place! Especially for the young, (I'm 26) who carry such a burden so needlessly. I lived too many of my years with a closed heart, but now I see why this has been destroying me, and why it is also destroying our lives and our planet."

...

silviachan
2004-07-22, 15:55
SPOILER WARNING (sorry but couldn't find the right tag)

I really loved this anime, but couldn't really stand the ending as well.
Watching the last episode, if you don't see the very last 2 minutes, you'd think they will stay together or at least will try to. I was a little comforted by that as the previous episodes had so much sad scenes, but in the end... Here she leaves alone!! It can't be!!! He moved away from home, left his job, and did all these for what... For letting her back and having the same situation they began with!! :twitch:
I really wanted to see them together and now I really feel bad about this end!
Yes, I must admit that, if I was in Nanoka's place, I'd given up with such a story, but not because thinking it's not right to love your sibling. They fall in love, and didn't mean to do nothing wrong: who can control love to happen? The real problem is (so I think): many story can't last long, and you finish them normally. But if Nanoka and Koushiro must do so many efforts, and maybe they are for nothing? Can they say their love isn't a momentary passion? And so I could never have my parents suffering for a thing I'm not sure of...
But in the end I must say this is one of the best show I have seen ever. I hope I can continue the manga soon, too.

TronDD
2004-07-22, 16:31
What was Koushiro supposed to do? Drag her out of school, away from her family, and hole up in a cave with her somewhere?

I think the two of them concluded that there was nothing to be afraid of anymore. They no longer cared about the social taboo of their relationship, therefore, Nanoka can continue living a normal life. She is still in school, you know. Why shouldn't she continue going? They will probably live apart but will remain emotionally connected. Just like any other loving couple that have lives to live.

silviachan
2004-07-22, 18:03
I hope so... But it seemed to me a farewell-like scene... And, if their promise was to meet under the tree they made the "umbrella sign" on when spring comes, it means once a year... But maybe I got it wrong!