Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Shin Sekai Yori, Episode 23.

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[Kazu-kun]

As expected The Akki isn't an Akki

Shun told Saki that. :twitch:

[kuromitsu]

This episode was... frustrating. :heh:

Griping below...

Why did they have to end it there?! I think I know what they're trying to do but it's such a bad point to end the episode, and such a bad point to start the next episode! :heh: The sequence where Saki remembered Shun was very nice, though.

The psycho buster is not supposed to look like that?? Then again, I guess it doesn't really matter since they cut everything about what this thing is, why it looks like that, what it's doing there and how it works... Perhaps they didn't want to offend Christians? Or they thought "whatever, there wouldn't be time for it anyway?" But they spent 2 minutes on Inui and Saki just talking and then walking around, surely they could've made time for 3-4 sentences from the minoshiro critter... This way it's like some Random Mysterious Gadget that's just randomly lying there. :/ (Also, this is supposed to be where the "cursed power" aspect is made very obvious, making "Cantus" even more meaningless and out of place.)

Oh well.

Unlike the last episode I think this one had a pretty bad pacing, though maybe that's just because during the first part in my mind I kept screaming "GET ON WITH IT, YOU ONLY HAVE 2 MORE EPISODES!" :heh: I mean, I understand that they wanted to end on a dramatic note with Shun, but argh! How are they going to do the rest of the story in 2 more episodes without rushing?!

And if they'd already decided to take their sweet time, they could've done more with it. Instead of showing the characters walking, or Saki and Inui standing around talking (that could've been done over a montage!), they could've included a flashback about them splitting up and Satoru opting to go with Kiroumaru (seriously, why can't the guy get some attention), or show more of the creepy office/lab thing Saki is wandering around in search for the psycho buster, or ah, the psycho buster explanation...

Sigh.

Mind, it wasn't a bad episode, but it was frustrating. :/ Now I'm worried about the last two episodes.

Then again, I think most people will care about only one aspect of this episode. :P Actually, about that...

Why is Shun voiced by Toudou Mai? :confused: Come to think of it, she also voiced him in episode 11, in Saki's dream. But why her and not Murase Ayumu who voiced 14 year old Shun? I mean mirage!Shun even looks like his 14 year old self...

[NoemiChan]

Never yet seen it... but probably tomorrow.

[deadsea]

This episode was... frustrating. :heh:

Griping below...

Why did they have to end it there?! I think I know what they're trying to do but it's such a bad point to end the episode, and such a bad point to start the next episode!

The psycho buster is not supposed to look like that?? Then again, I guess it doesn't really matter since they cut everything about what this thing is, why it looks like that, what it's doing there and how it works... Perhaps they didn't want to offend Christians? But this way it's like some Random Mysterious Gadget that's just randomly lying there. :/ (Also, this is supposed to be where the "cursed power" aspect is made very obvious, making "Cantus" even more meaningless and out of place.)

Oh well.

Unlike the last episode I think this one had a pretty bad pacing, though maybe that's just because in my mind I kept screaming "GET ON WITH IT, YOU ONLY HAVE 2 MORE EPISODES!" :heh: I mean, I understand that they wanted to end on a dramatic note with Shun, but argh! How are they going to do the rest of the story in 2 more episodes without rushing?!

And if they'd already decided to take their sweet time, they could've done more with it. Instead of showing the characters walking, or Saki and Inui standing around talking (that could've been done over a montage!), they could've included a flashback about them splitting up and Satoru opting to go with Kiroumaru (seriously, why can't the guy get some attention), or show more of the creepy lab thing Saki is wandering around in search for the psycho buster, or ah, the psycho buster explanation...

Sigh.

Mind, it wasn't a bad episode, but it was frustrating. :/ Now I'm worried about the last two episodes...

Then again, I think most people will care about only one aspect of this episode. :P Actually, about that...

Why is Shun voiced by Toudou Mai? :confused: Come to think of it, she also voiced him in episode 11, in Saki's dream. But why her and not Murase Ayumu? I mean mirage!Shun even looks like his 14 year old self...

Maybe they will cut the ED in the next 2 ep, I think that they could have done Minoshiro tell the story about PsychoBuster to Saki while she was walking through the lab
I wanna know more about PsychoBuster, can u PM me with the info pls

[roon]

That was a hell of a cliffhanger to end it on. I figured she'd remember him, but I didn't think it'd be in this way...

And yeah, the ED really needs to be cut now. I didn't mind it when it was first introduced, but now it's just ridiculous.

That preview gave some major Eva-vibes :heh:

[Hypernova]

Gaahhh! Why didn't Saki read the letter in the safe! That's just stupid.

[kuromitsu]

Wow, I thought thread would be much longer by now... :heh:

And yeah, the ED really needs to be cut now. I didn't mind it when it was first introduced, but now it's just ridiculous.
Yeah, seriously... :/ It's so jarring. I hope they won't play it in the last episode. I still say if they had to change they should've done either a thematic continuation of Wareta ringo, or something about the bonds between Group 1 members. (Or hell, they could've just kept Wareta ringo, it was so good.)

Btw, perhaps I sounded too harsh in my first post - it's not that I thought this was a bad episode, I liked it, frustration aside, it did many things very well. I thought the last sequence was very good (even though it could've used some trippier, more energetic animation), the general atmosphere was also good, etc. It's just that, I think they wasted a lot of time* in the first part for no reason, and it's frustrating to see this at this stage of the story (which is also why I'm not entirely happy with the episode ending on this plot point). And I think they could've done more with this episode (psycho buster, sigh - I half hope that Saki took the letter, too, and will read it later, but I'm not holding my breath). Oh well, this is what we have and it's not half bad.

*Relatively, of course, but when you only have 20 minutes per episode even 1 minute is a lot of time...

[Squarecrow]

Wow, I thought thread would be much longer by now... :heh:
Super late subs. :(



Some people's theory as to why there are no real plans in place for dealing with a "fiend" (and their mediocre at best defense against the rats), because the people are mindless sheep, seems to have been disproved by Inui-san, who was pretty clever this episode. Not clever enough apparently. He did manage to remarkably spot that thing from a mile away underwater and save Saki so I gotta give him props for that.

Shun's comment to Saki seems to set up Kiromaru to take out the "fiend". I mean, really, why would it matter to Saki if it's actually a fiend or not? She can't do anything about it. Though I really think I'd need to rewatch the episodes with the rat vs. rat war reports if it turns out the "fiend" can't kill rats. Even without the PK there still seems to be conflicting reports anyways...

Edit: And what does did the village Tomiko see in Saki? She's such a burden.

[pinoscotto]

This episode was... frustrating. :heh:

Griping below...

Why did they have to end it there?! I think I know what they're trying to do but it's such a bad point to end the episode, and such a bad point to start the next episode! :heh: The sequence where Saki remembered Shun was very nice, though.

The psycho buster is not supposed to look like that?? Then again, I guess it doesn't really matter since they cut everything about what this thing is, why it looks like that, what it's doing there and how it works... Perhaps they didn't want to offend Christians? Or they thought "whatever, there wouldn't be time for it anyway?" But they spent 2 minutes on Inui and Saki just talking and then walking around, surely they could've made time for 3-4 sentences from the minoshiro critter... This way it's like some Random Mysterious Gadget that's just randomly lying there. :/ (Also, this is supposed to be where the "cursed power" aspect is made very obvious, making "Cantus" even more meaningless and out of place.)

Oh well.

Unlike the last episode I think this one had a pretty bad pacing, though maybe that's just because during the first part in my mind I kept screaming "GET ON WITH IT, YOU ONLY HAVE 2 MORE EPISODES!" :heh: I mean, I understand that they wanted to end on a dramatic note with Shun, but argh! How are they going to do the rest of the story in 2 more episodes without rushing?!

And if they'd already decided to take their sweet time, they could've done more with it. Instead of showing the characters walking, or Saki and Inui standing around talking (that could've been done over a montage!), they could've included a flashback about them splitting up and Satoru opting to go with Kiroumaru (seriously, why can't the guy get some attention), or show more of the creepy office/lab thing Saki is wandering around in search for the psycho buster, or ah, the psycho buster explanation...

Sigh.

Mind, it wasn't a bad episode, but it was frustrating. :/ Now I'm worried about the last two episodes.

Then again, I think most people will care about only one aspect of this episode. :P Actually, about that...

Why is Shun voiced by Toudou Mai? :confused: Come to think of it, she also voiced him in episode 11, in Saki's dream. But why her and not Murase Ayumu who voiced 14 year old Shun? I mean mirage!Shun even looks like his 14 year old self...
isn't it possible saki will tell us about the letter in the next episode? i think it's pointless showing the letter to us whitout reading it...

[ookamigirl]

Those caves sure were full of all kinds of creatures.
The only problem was that those creatures are very deadly.
Looks like not only the caves pose a threat.
At least they managed to get their submarine and use it in the caves.
They got closer to their goal, but with a price...
Wonder if Shun was real or just a hallucination?

[kuromitsu]

isn't it possible saki will tell us about the letter in the next episode? i think it's pointless showing the letter to us whitout reading it...
Yeah, that's what I'm half-hoping. But they have so much to cover, the psycho buster looks different so the connection is half lost, and in any case the momentum is gone. :/ But we'll see. It's not that it's hugely important to the plot, but it puts the thing Saki found in its proper context.

[deadsea]

the psychobuster looks like a rosary-weird design

[Griffith]

Add me to the list of people who wish they'd cut the ED already. It feels really out of place, I've been skipping it after the first time hearing it. I'm disappointed that we didn't learn more about the Psycho buster and that we didn't see more of Saki exploring that lab. I really hope the last two episodes are good, I don't see how they're going to wrap everything up in time.

[ChainLegacy]

Good episode... So I guess Shun is alive..? Pretty confused at that part actually, why is he running away? If that is actually him, why isn't there some psychedelic barrier going on around him due to his condition? They left it a little too ambiguous to understand, lol...

Looks like Kiroumaru will be in on some kind of betrayal after all judging by Inui's comments and the previews. I wonder just what he'll do. I assume his original venture into these caves was to retrieve the bio weapon for himself, so I guess he'll try to steal it? If he is going to betray them, though, isn't he kind of helpless in a head on conflict against the psy-users? It showed him standing directly in front of Saki in the preview.

One wonders how the cantus users came to dominate the world when they're so vulnerable to all of these monsters who, while scary, are probably less deadly than any modern weaponry by a long shot.

[Orin GA]

Anyone have a pic of what it is suppose to look like?

[CJ_Walker]

Anyone have a pic of what it is suppose to look like?

Can anyone explain the psychobuster thing in a spoiler tag? or pm? from what kuromitsu said, implied that PK was a man made thing or something.

[Squarecrow]

Good episode... So I guess Shun is alive..? Pretty confused at that part actually, why is he running away? If that is actually him, why isn't there some psychedelic barrier going on around him due to his condition? They left it a little too ambiguous to understand, lol...
He seems to have implanted his thoughts into Saki before his physical body died so I don't think that was actually him, he doesn't have a body I'd guess. Likely he's just making her hallucinate. Whether or not his thoughts are just thoughts or his complete consciousness remains to be seen.

[Kanon]

Saki has been so useless lately. She's almost acting like a damsel in distress now. Before, I could understand what Tomiko saw in her but lately I've been under the impression she made a grave mistake by picking her as her replacement. Unless I'm remembering wrong, she used to be portrayed as smarter, pragmatic and more pro-active. What happened?

Inui is dead. That's a big loss. He was a very cool and competent guy. He was apparently the one only among the three who suspected Kiroumaru's got a secret agenda, and I'm afraid he was right. Kiroumaru is way too suspicious.

The final scene was beautiful. Saki running in that desolate scenery, remembering Shun bit and bit, and finally yelling his name after he turns around and she sees his face for the first time in 12 years. Wonderful.

It pretty much spoils Kiroumaru is going to betray them... I'm hoping that's a red herring. I really want Kiroumaru to be a good guy. But I guess "good guy" is relative.

[Daniel E.]

Can anyone explain the psychobuster thing in a spoiler tag?

Please don't ask for spoilers to be posted here; not even behind tags.

[ChronoReverse]

One wonders how the cantus users came to dominate the world when they're so vulnerable to all of these monsters who, while scary, are probably less deadly than any modern weaponry by a long shot.

I think the difference is attack versus defense.

Since they were going through the tunnels carefully and quietly, that puts a lot of limits on them

Whereas if it's a cantus user just blasting away, none of these creatures could stand against them.

[Triple_R]

Saki has been so useless lately. She's almost acting like a damsel in distress now.

She's obviously traumatized. She's been going through an absolute horror story for several episodes and several days now. And it just keeps getting worse and worse for her.

So how can you blame her for losing her composure a bit? Frankly, I would find it unrealistic if she didn't crack at least a bit under the immense emotional strain and physical weariness she's been continually enduring since Yakomaru made his move.

Inui is basically a black ops soldier. I expect the man to be made of stern stuff, and he didn't disappoint. But Saki's not a soldier, and she never has been.


In any event, very intense and engaging episode again this week. Once again, my only critique is that the pacing seems a bit slow.

Since Yakomaru made his move, I feel like I'm watching a long animated movie randomly cut up into so many anime episodes. The movie itself has good pacing for a movie, but it doesn't work so well when you have to wait a week between each 20-something minute chunk.


In any event, that preview says an awful lot. Satoru's line in particular in it indicates we're in for an exciting conclusion!

[SeijiSensei]

What I find bothersome about the portrayal of Saki is that sometimes she seems reasonably powerful, like when she blows open that wall outside the laboratory, but in other cases it seems like she has no powers at all. She spent most of her time in the tunnels cringing rather than using her abilities. (One example from the last episode was her inability simply to float above that icky floor rather than walk through it. While she doesn't possess Maria's ability to fly, I believe she has shown the ability to float a small distance above the ground. And even if she couldn't do so, couldn't Satoru or Inui have managed that?) I hate to use the word "moe" here, but sometimes I feel like the writers characterize her as needing to be protected more than being a powerful actor on her own.

Not reading the letter made no sense to me, though I'm guessing it simply explains what the device is and how to use it.

Sometimes it seems like PK can do so many things that it is hardly different from magic. Did Inui recharge the device by ionizing the atmosphere around it and directing the freed electrons into it? Did he use his own body as a source of electrons? I've had the same issues with the ability to create fire at will. To me, psychokinesis can explain lifting up that stone slab or the submarine, but sometimes it seems like there is nothing it cannot do. Then again, my usual take on science-fiction anime is that is much closer to fantasy than Western stories which often rely more on "hard" science. (I had the same feelings about Noein, which is based on one interpretation of quantum theory, but the many-worlds hypothesis simply provided a rationale for a more fantastical story of universes in conflict.) Perhaps the novel has a more scientific bent than this adaptation?

Still I found this episode tense and compelling. I didn't have any issues with the pacing myself.

I'm of two minds about Kiromaru's motives. Yes, Inui clearly enunciates the reasons why he may not be trustworthy, but that conversation may turn out to be a red herring in the end.

[kuromitsu]

Can anyone explain the psychobuster thing in a spoiler tag? or pm? from what kuromitsu said, implied that PK was a man made thing or something.
Nobody implied anything like that, though? o_o)

FWIW it's not really the shape that is important (actually it's kind of there in the anime version, too, if you look very hard) but the letter, and that may or may not be revisited later. Again, it's not hugely important or anything, it's just adding to the story's context.

Saki has been so useless lately. She's almost acting like a damsel in distress now. Before, I could understand what Tomiko saw in her but lately I've been under the impression she made a grave mistake by picking her as her replacement. Unless I'm remembering wrong, she used to be portrayed as smarter, pragmatic and more pro-active. What happened?
She's being under severe pressure, the kind we can't even imagine? Also she's a 26 year old who has never had to deal with anything like this before. As just about everyone pointed out (well, Tomiko, Maria and her mom), yes, Saki has strength, but it doesn't manifest in her being an unflappable badass. It's her ability to go through hell and not only make it out alive, but make it out unbroken. This is what Tomiko saw in her.Even in this episode, she's scared, she cries, she's terrified, she's half-delusional, but she does what she needs to do.

[Trajan]

She's being under severe pressure, the kind we can't even imagine? Also she's a 26 year old who has never had to deal with anything like this before. As just about everyone pointed out (well, Tomiko, Maria and her mom), yes, Saki has strength, but it doesn't manifest in her being an unflappable badass. It's her ability to go through hell and not only make it out alive, but make it out unbroken. This is what Tomiko saw in her.Even in this episode, she's scared, she cries, she's terrified, she's half-delusional, but she does what she needs to do.

Eh, Tomiko told Saki in episode 12 that her Personality Index, which rates the mental stability of an individual, or their "ability to remain themselves when all takes an entirely unexpected turn," was very high, perhaps the highest in Academy history.

But of the three humans on this little journey, Saki has exhibited the least amount of mental stability. Satoru and Inui have proven to be far more stable and have exhibited better problem solving skills than Saki. She cries, bugs scare her, she cannot defend herself, the horror or things overwhelm her, and she is at constant war with her mental blocks. She doesn't have strength, she has plot armor luck.

[Triple_R]

Saki vents a lot.

That doesn't mean she lacks mental stability. In fact, it's often the person who refuses to ever vent that is setting himself or herself up for snapping big time when they can't keep it altogether any longer.

Saki doesn't try to hold it in and keep a "stiff upper lip" no matter what. And frankly, that's probably a big part of the reason why she has such good mental stability.

Crying over things genuinely worth crying about, and freaking out at absolutely grotesque monsters, does not mean a person lacks mental stability. Frankly, such responses are normal and healthy.

Saki is genuinely strong, and her deferring to a hardened soldier like Inui doesn't change that.

[Trajan]

Saki vents a lot.

That doesn't mean she lacks mental stability. In fact, it's often the person who refuses to ever vent that is setting himself or herself up for snapping big time when they can't keep it altogether any longer.

Saki doesn't try to hold it in and keep a "stiff upper lip" no matter what. And frankly, that's probably a big part of the reason why she has such good mental stability.

Crying over things genuinely worth crying about, and freaking out at absolutely grotesque monsters, does not mean a person lacks mental stability. Frankly, such responses are normal and healthy.

Saki is genuinely strong, and her deferring to a hardened soldier like Inui doesn't change that.

No, "mental stability" in the Shin Sekai universe is how Tomiko defined it, as "ability to remain themselves when all takes an entirely unexpected turn." Put another way, it's the ability to "keep your head when all about you are losing theirs." It is not the ability to express your emotions externally in order to make yourself feel better. That's called therapy.

Even accepting the fact that Saki is mentally stable, this mental stability is supposed to make Saki a "good leader." But I'm hard pressed to remember any instance where Saki has acted like a leader. She followed Shun and Satoru when they were younger, and now she follows Kiroumaru, Satoru, and Shun. She does what they tell her to do. She is passive and she is a follower. Hell, if you believe that a piece of Shun's soul actually exists inside her, then it isn't even Saki who realizes the akki is not an akki. She's just an empty vessel.

[mnedel]

To me the pendant looks like a stylized figurine of a queen. Maybe the psychobuster has something to do with the origin of bakenezumi.
Now i know why the author had to kill Shisei. With him around this trip would be easy as pie.

And if it’s not a problem, could someone pm me with details on psychobuster

[Triple_R]

No, "mental stability" in the Shin Sekai universe is how Tomiko defined it, as "ability to remain themselves when all takes an entirely unexpected turn."

Yes, and Saki is remaining herself during these tough times.


It is not the ability to express your emotions externally in order to make yourself feel better.

Wrong. That is part of it, for Saki. Saki has always been a person who wears her emotions on her sleeve. Why are people complaining about this now?

Saki cried when Shun romantically touched her hand. Saki also cried over the mere memory of that. Saki wept, and even became a bit choked up, when she received the farewell letter from Maria. Saki is an emotionally expressive person.

Satoru has always been the person that's better at looking cool, calm, and collected.




Even accepting the fact that Saki is mentally stable, this mental stability is supposed to make Saki a "good leader."

There's different types of leadership. Leading a village during peacetime is very different from leading a military operation during an all-out war.

Tomiko recruited Saki to lead a village during peacetime. She didn't recruit Saki to successfully lead humanity through a war. In her wildest nightmares, Tomiko probably never imagined a scenario playing out like what we've seen since Yakomaru made his move.

Making good but tough administrative decisions is very different from being resourceful while playing Solid Snake in the badlands as part of a 4-man team that is humanity's last hope. Just because someone would make a good Mayor doesn't mean they'd make a good Rambo.

[SQA]

Stability isn't terribly important in "leadership". It's very important for maintaining order, a regime and passing judgement. So, for Tomiko's role, Saki would show a good mental make up for it. However, that's really "enforcement" and not "leadership". They aren't actually leading anywhere, they're just making sure they stay in one place.

[Dr. Casey]

Yes, Inui clearly enunciates the reasons why he may not be trustworthy, but that conversation may turn out to be a red herring in the end.

Aye, Inui's reasoning is sound enough, but the things he points out are still only circumstantial evidence. I'll continue to think of Kiroumaru as innocent until proven guilty.

No, "mental stability" in the Shin Sekai universe is how Tomiko defined it, as "ability to remain themselves when all takes an entirely unexpected turn." Put another way, it's the ability to "keep your head when all about you are losing theirs." It is not the ability to express your emotions externally in order to make yourself feel better. That's called therapy.

Tomiko's wording is vague enough that one could easily think up multiple interpretations for it, I think. That quotation leaves quite a bit of wiggle room. And if f I remember right, Tomiko described Saki as being 'resilient,' which is more of a long-term strength rather than a short-term one. That isn't the type of strength that allows you to keep a cool head when traversing a cave full of horrible monsters, but the kind of long-term endurance that allows you to, say, continue living in your childhood village for more than a decade after first learning what a shady and dangerous place it is and even maintain your original feelings of fondness for it.

As for Saki's leadership potential, Triple ninja'd me and conveyed my thoughts more clearly than I could have. Saki has never been much of a warrior (whenever she was lost with Satoru, Satoru was the Queerat Exterminator while Saki mainly sat back and watched), but she would make a perfectly fine peacetime leader. She not only exhibits many traditional leadership traits, but also possesses many softer traits that are a good thing because they make her more humane than the current Board of Education's Cat-happy child killers.

[kuromitsu]

No, "mental stability" in the Shin Sekai universe is how Tomiko defined it, as "ability to remain themselves when all takes an entirely unexpected turn." Put another way, it's the ability to "keep your head when all about you are losing theirs."
Rewatch the episodes with the letters from Maria and Saki's mom, they both go out of their way to say that yes, Saki cries about stuff, she's not terribly brave, etc. but she has integrity and doesn't break. Rewatch episode 12, Tomiko stresses how important it is that her personality index barely changed even after learning the truth from the minoshiromodoki.

Also, she's 26. That's a very young age to be in this situation and carry this kind of weight. Do you think Tomiko was like she is now when she was that young? Tomiko herself says in ep 12 that she understands how Saki feels because she used to feel the same way once.

Crying over things genuinely worth crying about, and freaking out at absolutely grotesque monsters, does not mean a person lacks mental stability. Frankly, such responses are normal and healthy.
Exactly. And it's not like Saki keeps wailing and complaining and she's unreasonably scared shitless, her reactions are perfectly normal for someone in this situation. Over the last couple of days Saki has witnessed first-hand the massacre of her people, the destruction of her home, she's on a mission to kill her best friend's young son, she's in this terrifying place with bizarre and deadly monsters, she's carrying a weapon of terrible power, she's lost Inui, she has no idea if Satoru is safe or even alive, she's mentally and physically exhausted, all but lost in a hellish place, and still she keeps going.

Sure, Inui is badass, but he's basically given up on his life and refers to himself a ghost, an empty shell that's driven only by the desire for revenge. Saki has lost so much, has suffered so much trauma, and right now she also has to deal with the reopening of an old wound that never fully healed, and she's still holding herself together. What is this if not integrity and stability, the sign of a good leader?

(And then there's also the fact that it's not like she would have to lead alone... Tomiko had a staff, there was also the Education Committee with Hiromi et al, there was the library, the Mayor, etc.)

[ChainLegacy]

He seems to have implanted his thoughts into Saki before his physical body died so I don't think that was actually him, he doesn't have a body I'd guess. Likely he's just making her hallucinate. Whether or not his thoughts are just thoughts or his complete consciousness remains to be seen.

Oh, okay. That would make sense, but I got thrown off because suddenly he is appearing as an adult whereas he was in that teenager masked form when explaining how he's part of her soul.

[Dawnstorm]

Sometimes it seems like PK can do so many things that it is hardly different from magic.

Actually, that's how I interpreted episode 4. Some scientist from Azerbaijan proved magic exists in a controlled experiment, and as a side effect the number of magicians exploded (dunno how). But, yes, I'd say that Shin Sakai Yori would interpret any magic (shamans, prophets and co.) as PK occurance.

I'm not sure how that works (or if anyone in-world even knows); the SF cynic in me expects yet another bastardisation of the quantum "observer effect". It's the ultimate SF blackbox, these days. :heh:

[Grey]

That ending and that preview. What. Looks like they're throwing another curveball.

As I thought, directing Cantus leakage and fear at the outside the Holy Barrier creates scary stuff. I pretty much expected it to create nightmare type creatures that are the bane of humans. Thankfully, it doesn't lead to human extinction machines. Yet. Maybe.

[Kanon]

She's obviously traumatized. She's been going through an absolute horror story for several episodes and several days now. And it just keeps getting worse and worse for her.

So how can you blame her for losing her composure a bit? Frankly, I would find it unrealistic if she didn't crack at least a bit under the immense emotional strain and physical weariness she's been continually enduring since Yakomaru made his move.

You're correct, she reacts like any normal girl would, and that's precisely the problem.I was under the impression Saki was supposed to be special. She is the future leader of the village, and seeing a leader act like she does (complaining about freaking bugs while she's on a mission to save humanity) is quite worrisome.

The bigger problem is that her characterization is inconsistent. She has been put in a very stressful situation when she was just a kid (powerless and stranded in hostile territory with only Satoru by her side, a predicament not unlike the one she is in currently), and yet she managed to remain fairly composed and power through it. In fact, it was thanks to her they survived. Her inner strength and her resourcefulness impressed me a lot. The Saki from back is nowhere to be seen. She's been helpless throughout this entire arc, and in this episode more than ever. I cringed when she didn't move an inch and simply screamed when the giant caterpillar was about to eat her. She actually has her cantus this time, why can't she at least try to defend herself? I can't help but feel the young Saki would have performed better.

Inui is basically a black ops soldier. I expect the man to be made of stern stuff, and he didn't disappoint. But Saki's not a soldier, and she never has been.

What about Satoru? He's just a scientist, and he's been holding up far better than Saki. If not for him, she would have been long dead. The only reason she's made it this far is her plot armor, not her own strength. I expected better from her.

[apotheosis]

I know at least part of the reason Saki is so scared is to channel her mood & reactions to the viewer ... but ... she just seems so helpless :(

I was expecting that she'd grow into something more useful than a medium for Shun's past wisdom. I hope she can overcome her fears and do something useful at the end ..

Inui was surprisingly awesome after his fatalistic talk & that last scene with him was quite gripping. It was also well foreshadowed by the first "giant centipede" attack, where they made you wonder if he was dead or not.

[creb]

If Saki had a history of weakness...well, the show probably wouldn't be as engaging as it has been, but while she hasn't been superwoman, she's been remarkably strong in the travails she and her friends have been through as children.

Adult Saki on the other hand seems to be bordering on hysteria/delusions, as if reality is so unbearable she has to escape into some fantasy where she can let herself be caught between her two crushes. :heh:

The show seems to be aiming Saki towards finding a method that doesn't involve killing Maria's child. Which, I guess is fine, but the problem with nearly every literary device that concentrates on saving individuals as a feel good story reaffirming what wonderful people we all are for caring about that individual's plight, is ignoring the price paid when viewed at large scale.

With presumably 1-3 episodes left, I'm not really sure how this is all going to be resolved, because the pacing in the adult arc has been glacially slow.

I'm all for Saki doing a Princess Lei to Squealer's Jabba, but Saki managing to show some backbone and focus on...oh....reality before the show is over would be something I could settle for. :D

Edit: For all my gripes over this arc, I still think this is one of the three best shows of the last two seasons, and if the ending isn't all sunflowers and rainbows, it'll probably stay there, despite adult Saki. :)

[Shadow5YA]

You're correct, she reacts like any normal girl would, and that's precisely the problem.I was under the impression Saki was supposed to be special. She is the future leader of the village, and seeing a leader act like she does (complaining about freaking bugs while she's on a mission to save humanity) is quite worrisome.

The bigger problem is that her characterization is inconsistent. She has been put in a very stressful situation when she was just a kid (powerless and stranded in hostile territory with only Satoru by her side, a predicament not unlike the one she is in currently), and yet she managed to remain fairly composed and power through it. In fact, it was thanks to her they survived. Her inner strength and her resourcefulness impressed me a lot. The Saki from back is nowhere to be seen. She's been helpless throughout this entire arc, and in this episode more than ever. I cringed when she didn't move an inch and simply screamed when the giant caterpillar was about to eat her. She actually has her cantus this time, why can't she at least try to defend herself? I can't help but feel the young Saki would have performed better.



What about Satoru? He's just a scientist, and he's been holding up far better than Saki. If not for him, she would have been long dead. The only reason she's made it this far is her plot armor, not her own strength. I expected better from her.

I'm not quite sure what you're expecting from Saki. Do you expect her to be Batman with a master plan or something? Her character is not meant to be praised. Saki complimented Inui on being a survivor like Tomiko complimented her, and he even said that it wasn't skill but luck that kept him from being killed.

[Guardian Enzo]

The problem I have with Saki's behavior is that she's repeatedly shown as being more traumatized and hesitant than pretty much every male colleague she travels with. Whether those reactions are "normal" or not, it's irritating - and she hasn't always been that way.

And yes, please drop the ED. It was a bad idea to begin with, but seeing it pop up the way things are happening now is borderline travesty.

[Triple_R]

You're correct, she reacts like any normal girl would, and that's precisely the problem.

No, I think most normal girls (and most normal guys, for that matter) would be on the verge of completely giving up by now, if they hadn't already. I doubt many would have been able to make the firm promise to Inui that Saki did in this episode.

Honestly, the way some people on this thread are criticizing Saki makes me think of some of the harshest criticisms that Shinji Ikari received. In both cases, I really feel like the extremely bleak situation that the criticized character is forced to deal with, and has been dealing with for almost his/her entire life, is not getting the focus it deserves.

Neither Saki or Shinji are above criticism, but I think it's getting overblown when we consider narrative context.


I was under the impression Saki was supposed to be special.

She is special. Most probably would have crumbled by now. Have you really stopped to think about how absolutely horrific Saki's personal situation has been since Yakomaru made his move?

Here's the thing - It's not that Saki is weak, it's that Satoru is almost unbelievably unflappable. Satoru is a badass. The guy stares death in the face with unreal composure. The strength Satoru has shown throughout the past few episodes is nothing short of pure heroism.


She is the future leader of the village, and seeing a leader act like she does (complaining about freaking bugs while she's on a mission to save humanity) is quite worrisome.

So what are you saying? That people with arachnophobia can't be good leaders? :heh:


The bigger problem is that her characterization is inconsistent. She has been put in a very stressful situation when she was just a kid (powerless and stranded in hostile territory with only Satoru by her side, a predicament not unlike the one she is in currently), and yet she managed to remain fairly composed and power through it.

Back then, she had not witnessed anybody else die. Dangerous situations take on a more ominous feel once you have visual confirmation that yes, they can kill you. Kids don't always fully register this like adults do because not all kids have experienced the heart-wrenching loss that confirms their fears.

Modern Saki has watched numerous people get brutally killed right in front of her eyes. She's even seen a man that "could split the world in half" get brutally killed.


The only reason she's made it this far is her plot armor, not her own strength. I expected better from her.

I really don't think you're being fair here. That is not the only reason she's made it that far. At least part of the reason that Saki has made it this far is her own strength.


If Saki had a history of weakness...well, the show probably wouldn't be as engaging as it has been, but while she hasn't been superwoman, she's been remarkably strong in the travails she and her friends have been through as children.

Yes, but such travails can leave lasting scars over time. Scars that can later re-emerge when facing new travails.


Adult Saki on the other hand seems to be bordering on hysteria/delusions, as if reality is so unbearable she has to escape into some fantasy where she can let herself be caught between her two crushes. :heh:

Do you really think all the Shun bits are just 100% delusion on Saki's part? Rather convenient, don't you think, for this "delusion" to correctly inform Saki that Maria's child is not a fiend (sorry, but it's now too much for this to be just a red herring; I'll be shocked if he really is a fiend).

I'm inclined to think that Shun really did do something to Saki to cause this imagery of him to keep coming up for her. In other words, it's not just her going crazy, it's what Shun did to her having its intended effect even years after he passed on.


The problem I have with Saki's behavior is that she's repeatedly shown as being more traumatized and hesitant than pretty much every male colleague she travels with.

Some of the males Saki has traveled or worked with has handled things worse than she did.

In that five-person team that Saki and Satoru ended up being a part of several episodes back, there was one guy that was downright reckless (courageous to a fault, if anything) and there was another guy that was cautious to the point of cowardice.

Then there was that guy who had basically cracked, and said that everybody should split up since otherwise they'd all be killed.

All the other guys that Saki has worked with throughout the last few episodes have been admirably strong, but the three I just discussed didn't keep their wits about them as well as Saki did.

[Reckoner]

I am quite bothered by Saki's characterization lately. What did Tomiko see in her? She has repeatedly acted like a useless damsel in distress who just never uses her powers. I understand, she isn't particularly powerful, but she almost never does anything. Just a lot of crying and being useless. I loved Saki earlier in this show, so it's disappointing to me that they'd strip her of any use in this story. Maybe the creators thought that was moe or something, I don't know. It's just very annoying to see her do things earlier in the show (Like survive the encounter with the tainted cat), but then seem completely useless here. Granted, she has acted pretty "normal," but she is supposed to be more special and just normal IMO.

Now I am not sure how they plan to conclude this series, but they only have two episodes left. I fear we might run into some awkward pacing issues in the final stretch here (If we haven't already). I also heard from novel readers that a lot of the significance about what the Psycho Buster is got gutted. These sorts of details are what keep the story logical and intelligible. Otherwise it allows us to just poke holes in what's going on. Why is the psycho buster useful against the fiend and a counter to death feedback? This still hasn't been explained at all and I am not sure the TV series will ever justify it to me.

This series might have lost its chance at greatness.

[Hypernova]

And if it’s not a problem, could someone pm me with details on psychobuster

Wasn't this explained last episode? It's a modified strain of Anthrax made by the Americans.

[Entravity]

This anime has some great scenery. Love that Shun is back even if it's from her mind. Looking forward to the next episode!

[vansonbee]

Watched this episode high and enjoyed it!

I notice Saki gets around a lot, from childhood; Satoru x Saki -> Shun -> Mari -> Shun -> Maria - Satoru -> random ops guy in ep.23 -> ghost of shun!

Great to see Shun back! I recall someone state it would be great he stay dead, because its beautiful or something. I wonder what you think now?

[Tougarashi]

If Maria's kid is not an Akki, why he could kill other PK users using his telekinetic power. He could even kill Shinsei. I'm confuse.

[Xiammes]

I think its becausehe grew up around Queerats, that he believes he is one. I think Death Feedback happens when he attacks the Queerats. Look at the battle with the Hornet Colony, the Akki only disarmed them then the Robber Fly finished them off based off of Kiromaru's account.

Even without their equipment, the Giant Hornet Colony was the largest and most powerful and still would have formidable opponents. It seems quite dangerous to send Queerats to fight when they could have use the Fiend to wipe them all out instantly.

[sonagi]

Eww .. did NOT like this episode.

So disjointed, and no continuity whatsoever. I feel like they sacrificed a lot of relevant content to play out the melodramatic, cue-the-ghost-in-the-shell music, Shun revelation scene. I get that they were going after emotional effect but it was overly sentimental.

I'm also worried about how they're going to stuff everything into the final two episodes. The last thing I want is a *rushed* ending.

One comment about next episode's preview ... was that a tattoo on the Akki's face? Is that the same tattoo used to mark queerat colonies (i.e. Sphonk?). I'm just wondering because I don't recall seeing it before in previous episodes.

[GoldenLand]

This was a good ep, although I do hope that it won't mean the remaining eps will be too rushed. There was quite a bit of atmosphere. Looks as if Inui is dead, which is a real pity. I liked him. Kiroumaru and Satoru are still alive going by the preview, so I suppose the reason Inui went with Saki is because the other two were still too important to die.

The preview seems to be suggesting that Kiroumaru will betray them, as does Inui's talk with Saki this ep, which actually makes me feel better about him. If he's not going to betray them - or at least, not betray them in the sense of genuinely being in cahoots with Yakomaru - then it makes some sense to mislead the audience and make them think that sort of betrayal is a serious possibility. I will be very entertained if Kiroumaru actually is working with Yakomaru but it's all a ruse for the former to get a chance to kill the latter.

The previews have misled us before, but I am concerned that Satoru might be going to get himself recklessly killed next ep. Don't die, man, there are so few long-term cast members still around! We know Saki isn't going to die, so the show will only be able to scare us with the potential deaths of Satoru and Kiroumaru. The only other continuing characters are Yakomaru and the not-actually-a-Fiend, and the latter hasn't been around much anyway.

I'm surprised by some of the criticisms being thrown at Saki in this thread. Can it really just have been because she was scared of some harmless insects in the previous ep? She may have been scared, but she did trudge through them in the end. Or because she was scared of creatures which are meant to be produced by the psychokinesis-users' subconscious expectations about Tokyo, that it is Hell on Earth? Well, yes, of course she was scared of those.

Saki has witnessed incredibly atrocities over the previous few days, and is still keeping her wits about her. Most people would have broken down by now, but she's focused intently on the very difficult task ahead of her. She promised Inui that she would succeed in her task even if he died. She escaped the thing that killed Inui, and then immediately went back underwater for the vital minoshiro. She kept going after Inui's death, all on her own. And she's done this while the hypnotic barrier about Shun was falling to pieces and giving her hallucinations.

But, apparently the fact that she has been scared of frightening things, shed a few tears over Inui's death, and hasn't been doing especially dramatic things with her psychokinesis is enough for some people to start calling her a damsel in distress, useless, and to say that she's been portrayed as more traumatised than all the guys in the series. Those things aren't true. What Saki isn't is a battle-hardened soldier or combat specialist, although TBH even one of those would probably be breaking down in the circumstances she's under; as for the others in the group, Kiroumaru supposedly cares for nothing but revenge, Inui felt like a walking dead man who likewise cared only for revenge, and hopefully Satoru - who has been holding up admirably well until now, too - will not lose his head next ep, although I'm worried about him based on the preview. We shouldn't be expecting Saki to turn into a psychic Superwoman. Heck, the closest person to a psychic superhero in this series was Shisei...and look what happened to him. An admirable attempt to delay the "Fiend", but he couldn't save the day just by using amazing superpowers.

[Tougarashi]

Saki is more like a survivor instead of the heroine. Like Katniss in Hunger Game, she has a strong sense to survive. Out of all the members of her childhood friends, she is the one who can manage to survive. She never escape from the troubles she faced. When she tried to escape from rats with Satouru during the school trip, she managed to revive Satouru PK by reciting his mantra. Like Katniss, she have a kind heart but she was brave when she was searching for Shun. Another one thing is she always try to break free from limits. She doesn't care about the cantus barrier, the first one to suggest to catch the false minoshiro and came up with the idea of how to catch it. While others are already forget about Shun, she's the one who always reflect her memories curiously and dislike the idea of disposing the children using cats. Like Katniss who break all the laws of Hunger Games, Saki is the one who doesn't hesitate to break all the rules to get what she wants.

She was the one who broke all the rules of the village and she is the one who is retelling the story. It is interesting to know that how she will change the village and its culture and how to solve the danger of PK leakage and how to protect the community for danger without disposing any kids. Those are the questions remained to be answered by Saki.

[taichi-kun]

Pretty boring episode,almost nothing happen

It was more like a date in hell between saki and inui (come on she even took a shower! I thought the rats were after them :uhoh: )

In the novel they had sex and a nap,just kidding :heh::

The only good moments involved Shun ,when saki remembered him and inui realizing that kiromaru was lying

Poor inui. he is with tomiko now

[GoldenLand]

It was more like a date in hell between saki and inui (come on she even took a shower! I thought the rats were after them :uhoh: )

Yeah, the shower was surprising. I managed to rationalise that one by thinking "well, maybe it was to reduce their smell and make it harder for the rats to track them" but they were supposed to be rushing...Maybe more time passed than it seemed, and that explains why they had to take breaks?

[Xiammes]

[QUOTE][Yeah, the shower was surprising. I managed to rationalise that one by thinking "well, maybe it was to reduce their smell and make it harder for the rats to track them" but they were supposed to be rushing...Maybe more time passed than it seemed, and that explains why they had to take breaks?/QUOTE]

The library needed to recharge and reactivate, Saki wouldn't know where to go without it.

[Raviel]

The last few episode threads have been pretty funny, I mean last week people started suspecting Kiroumaru of betraying everybody and we get some hints to that this week.

On another note, that mini false minoshiro is starting to grow on me, if they ever made anything like it IRL it would be the best toy ever XD.

[RWBladewing]

I'd considered posting this before this episode but up till now I figured I'd look like I was wearing a tinfoil hat if wrong. I've suspected Kiroumaru of hiding something ever since the battle between the Giant Hornets and Robber Flies; they focused on his mouth making a rather malicious-looking grin several times when he was talking about the upcoming battle and its implications, and I didn't think that was merely to express confidence. And they did so again right before they set out on this expedition. It may seem crazy to suspect someone from just that but it struck me as something very deliberate and out of place otherwise. At this point, I actually wonder if he isn't the mastermind behind the entire thing.

The battle would have provided an excellent chance to prove his "loyalty", removing any suspicion of him and making Yakomaru the visible figurehead of the enemy, while simultaneously eliminating any members of the Giant Hornets who were still loyal. The most well-known and recognized leader managing to be the only one to escape from an enemy that ravaged an entire army is also a pretty convenient occurrence. There's also the issue of his previous expedition (possibly looking for a weapon to use against the humans himself) and the fact that he currently seems to be reading Yakomaru's troops' movements exceptionally well, almost as if he already knows what they're going to do. He's now also managed to split up Saki and Satoru.

People may say that sacrificing his entire colony for this purpose is out of character for him but, what do we really know about his character? Most of the stories of his great exploits and honor were relayed through other characters rather than being seen directly. What we have seen, is that he's more than willing to kill enemy leaders and take their children as slaves. And that his conduct in helping Saki's group back on the camping trip also happened to be against human society's interests in general as he seemed to recognize they had been doing and learning things they were not supposed to. In addition, the Giant Hornets may even have been willing to sacrifice themselves. The whole "laying down their lives for the greater good" theme has been mentioned many many times by queerats by this point.

I guess I will find out next episode whether I am crazy paranoid or not.:heh:

[Triple_R]

In the novel they had sex and a nap,just kidding :heh:


Going by the whole Bonobos thing, I'm surprised this didn't happen. :heh:

I mean, this situation is probably the most stressed out Saki has ever been.

[momonae]

Yeah, the shower was surprising. I managed to rationalise that one by thinking "well, maybe it was to reduce their smell and make it harder for the rats to track them" but they were supposed to be rushing...Maybe more time passed than it seemed, and that explains why they had to take breaks?

People here are harsh to Saki. Saki had been soaked in bug juice, at least let her bathe in water and change clothes....

As for Kiroumaru, his loyality is basically with his colony and its queen and his loyalty to the "gods" is in question. You can say he is very conservative and pious so he won't betray them. On the other hand he seems to know much about the "humans" and doesn't actually think them as "gods" and betrays them.

[Raghar]

I voted 10. For trolling and creating a cliffhanger that managed to start in the half of the episode.

[Kanon]

I'm not quite sure what you're expecting from Saki. Do you expect her to be Batman with a master plan or something? Her character is not meant to be praised. Saki complimented Inui on being a survivor like Tomiko complimented her, and he even said that it wasn't skill but luck that kept him from being killed.

Of course not. I just expect her to act like she used to. I don't think that's asking for too much. She was previously portrayed as stronger than this. Now she's become freaking Mamoru.

Here's the thing - It's not that Saki is weak, it's that Satoru is almost unbelievably unflappable. Satoru is a badass. The guy stares death in the face with unreal composure. The strength Satoru has shown throughout the past few episodes is nothing short of pure heroism.

Why was Satoru never praised as much as Saki then?

It's not only Satoru. Niimi, the kid who looked like Shun, the woman who decided to stay at the hospital. They have all displayed more strength and courage than Saki. So what, she's not weak, they're just too strong?

I think the people who would completely break down in this situation are not actually the majority. You underestimate humanity's insane resilience and instinct for survival. People have managed to get through situations that were just as bad as this one if not worse.

So what are you saying? That people with arachnophobia can't be good leaders? :heh:

I'm saying that somebody who carries the fate of her race on her shoulder should be able to forget about her disgust for insect for one second. It's not like she was on a pic-nic.

Good leaders should be able to keep a cool head, overcome their fears (or at the very least conceal them) and inspire others. Even a leader during "peaceful times" should have these qualities. You never know what kind of crisis may arise.

Back then, she had not witnessed anybody else die. Dangerous situations take on a more ominous feel once you have visual confirmation that yes, they can kill you. Kids don't always fully register this like adults do because not all kids have experienced the heart-wrenching loss that confirms their fears.

She had seen the priest die in a horribly gruesome fashion. There is no way the danger didn't fully register in her mind. It was even worse back then because she had no means to defend herself and absolutely no allies save for Satoru. And yet when faced with this desperate situation, she reacted better than anybody else would have. Her resourcefulness was unbelievable. I could believe that Saki had what it took to lead a village.

I wouldn't have any problem with Saki's current behavior if she had always been that way (you brought up Shinji - for the record, I actually like him). However, that's not the case.

[Triple_R]

Of course not. I just expect her to act like she used to. I don't think that's asking for too much. She was previously portrayed as stronger than this. Now she's become freaking Mamoru.

You're really going over-the-top with this...


Why was Satoru never praised as much as Saki then?

Having the courage to personally face death in the face is a bit different from having to make cold, hard administrative decisions pertaining to the future of your village.


It's not only Satoru. Niimi, the kid who looked like Shun, the woman who decided to stay at the hospital. They have all displayed more strength and courage than Saki.

No, they haven't. Saki has chosen to take actions no less dangerous than they have.


So what, she's not weak, they're just too strong?

I'm saying that if you compare Saki to the strongest people she has worked with, it will cause a skewed view of her character. They're not the standard for "moderate strength". They're the standard for heroic strength.


I think the people who would completely break down in this situation are not actually the majority.

Then tell me where all the bold heroes were during the various shooting massacres that have plagued America in recent years and decades.

Satoru's level of strength is very much the exception. So is Inui's.


You underestimate humanity's insane resilience and instinct for survival.

Not at all. "Instinct for survival" is part of the reason why most people would just run away, or try to find a bunker somewhere to hide in.


People have managed to get through situations that were just as bad as this one if not worse.

Sure, and in many cases, they did that by being cowardly.


I'm saying that somebody who carries the fate of her race on her shoulder should be able to forget about her disgust for insect for one second.

Did Saki showing a bit of disgust over bugs in any way, shape, or form seriously impede the mission she was on?

No, it didn't. So you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Good grief...


Good leaders should be able to keep a cool head, overcome their fears (or at the very least conceal them) and inspire others.

Personally, I prefer working with leaders who are honest and transparent, and don't try to hide their fears from you.


She had seen the priest die in a horribly gruesome fashion.

Didn't she have her eyes covered when that explosion happened? I don't recall the Priest leaving much in the way of remains either.


There is no way the danger didn't fully register in her mind. It was even worse back then because she had no means to defend herself and absolutely no allies save for Satoru. And yet when faced with this desperate situation, she reacted better than anybody else would have. Her resourcefulness was unbelievable.

How so? Even back then, Satoru was the one leading the charge.

And Saki still has what it takes to lead a village.


I wouldn't have any problem with Saki's current behavior if she had always been that way (you brought up Shinji - for the record, I actually like him). However, that's not the case.

She has always been this way. She's always been very emotionally expressive. She's never been the person to lead the fight.


Anyway, if Shinji never bothered you, I don't see any good reason for Saki to bother you.

[SeijiSensei]

Let me reiterate that my complaint about Saki focused less on her psychological weakness, though that bothers me, too, and more on how inconsistently her PK powers are portrayed. That scene in the last episode with the guano floor is a good example. The only reason I can see for the writers' making her walk through that goop rather than floating over it is to encourage the audience to feel sorry for her. If these guys can move giant boulders and submarines around with PK, certainly they could have transported a skinny young woman over the goop, even if Saki couldn't do it herself.

It just makes me wonder whether the anime writers have diverted from the novel in their characterization of Saki during this arc. While she was never as powerful as her friends during adolescence, she wasn't without abilities as we could see in scenes like the search for Maria and Satoru when she motored around on that snowboard.

[Triple_R]

Do people here really think that Saki is "psychologically weak"?

Just because she isn't totally stoic?

[SeijiSensei]

I think she is weaker than we have seen her in past episodes. Whether there is a reasonable explanation for that based on her recent experiences is a different question. But she was often portrayed as brave when she led them across the Barrier or struck out to find Maria and Mamoru. That side of her personality seems to have been buried in this arc, at least until she reached the laboratory. She certainly still has strengths like stoicism and perseverance.

But again I don't really care so much about these issues as those surrounding her on-again/off-again powers. She seems to have powers only when the writers decide she needs to do something like blow a hole in a rock wall.

[Moeterumoe]

1) Just to make things clear, Shun isn't back from the dead.
It's not like he tell Saki something she can't know by herself.

It's more like... her subconscious created a split personality of her in the image of Shun to make Saki think better, and he does the 1 + 1 for her.

2) Did you know, the Psychobuster was supposed to look like a cross, but they've changed it in the anime (for obvious reasons I suppose).

3) Now, I won't call what I'm about to say a spoiler since it's in the preview after all. I would only give context to what you see in that preview, but just in case... I give a warning beforehand:

Spoiler for what you see in the preview for episode 24:

While the Psychobuster can be used to kill the "Akki" (because it's effect doesn't work right away), they (Saki and Satoru) are assuming that the one who will use it on the "Akki" will probably die after the "Akki"'s death from death feedback. And like you see in the preview, it is Satoru who is holding the Psychobuster.

That's why Saki's screams for Satoru not to use it in the preview. Satoru plan to sacrifice himself to kill the "Akki".

[Dark Wing]

I think it's important for everyone to remember...

Leaders are not born, they are made and crafted by their experiences.

I truly believe this final arc is the ultimate test of Saki's will. She is being pushed mentally and physically harder then she ever have in her life and when it's all said and done she'll come out of it a much stronger person.

After all look at Tomiko. She didn't seem that strong willed during the first fiend attack on the village back when she was just a humble nurse standing in that dark hallway crying in fear. Yet she still went on to become the most respected leaders of the community and I believe it was be cause she was willing to harden herself after the trauma of what she experienced first hand.

[Triple_R]

But again I don't really care so much about these issues as those surrounding her on-again/off-again powers. She seems to have powers only when the writers decide she needs to do something like blow a hole in a rock wall.

To be fair, I can definitely see where this is a bit annoying. I myself would have preferred it if Saki had handled one of those monsters herself.

But I don't have a problem with the emotions she portrays in this episode. The key thing is that she's not giving up or running away, imo.


1) Just to make things clear, Shun isn't back from the dead.
It's not like he tell Saki something she can't know by herself.

I didn't think Shun was "back from the dead". But I thought that he might have put a sort of post-hypnotic suggestion in her mind, with it triggered to cause her to hear his voice and him saying comforting words during moments of high stress for her. Since we are dealing with high-level PK-users here, this is far more potent, vivid, and long-lasting than your typical post-hypnotic suggestion.

This idea that her subconscious created a split personality... Ugh. I can't say I like that. That would mean she really is going crazy and delusional. :heh:

[Moeterumoe]

To be fair, I can definitely see where this is a bit annoying. I myself would have preferred it if Saki had handled one of those monsters herself.

But I don't have a problem with the emotions she portrays in this episode. The key thing is that she's not giving up or running away, imo.




I didn't think Shun was "back from the dead". But I thought that he might have put a sort of post-hypnotic suggestion in her mind, with it triggered to cause her to hear his voice and him saying comforting words during moments of high stress for her. Since we are dealing with high-level PK-users here, this is far more potent, vivid, and long-lasting than your typical post-hypnotic suggestion.

This idea that her subconscious created a split personality... Ugh. I can't say I like that. That would mean she really is going crazy and delusional. :heh:

No kidding...

The poor girl is LOSING IT! She went crazy! Now she have a split personality that talks to her in her mind. But can you blame her after all she went through?

If she'll lose Satoru too, the only person left that she loves and care about, I don't even want to think what will happen to her and what will be her psychological state :-/


By the way, did you know they took down a scene where Saki tell Satoru that she loves him, when they where on the boat, I don't know why they've took that down :-(

Also, I see a lot of comments from people who think Saki was in love with Maria too... WTF? No she wasn't. She loved her as a friend but that's it.

The only two people Saki was\is ever IN love with are Shun and Satoru.

[Kanon]

You're really going over-the-top with this...

Yes, I tend to exaggerate to get my point across. Even so, the current Saki does remind me more of Mamoru than the old Saki.


No, they haven't. Saki has chosen to take actions no less dangerous than they have.

Like what? She's only been running away and following directions (Tomiko's, her parents'). Not that I can blame her for that. There wasn't much she could do.

I'm saying that if you compare Saki to the strongest people she has worked with, it will cause a skewed view of her character. They're not the standard for "moderate strength". They're the standard for heroic strength.

Who should I compare her with then? Her parents? Tomiko? Shisei? These are about the only remaining named character I can think of. Are they all exceptions, even though Saki is supposed to be the exception? (highest personality index in the academy's history)

Then tell me where all the bold heroes were during the various shooting massacres that have plagued America in recent years and decades.

Satoru's level of strength is very much the exception. So is Inui's.

You can't be serious. Do you truly expect people (most of the time kids/teenagers) to stand up to guns? This would be insane, not bold.

Saki, while not as strong as the others, still has cantus. Something the writers seem to forget. She is not helpless. I at least expect her to be able to defend herself. She hasn't done that a single time in this arc. She's always protected by others. Having her stand still while a giant bug was about to eat her was the final straw for me.

Did Saki showing a bit of disgust over bugs in any way, shape, or form seriously impede the mission she was on?

No, it didn't. So you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Good grief...

It was just an example showing how odd Saki's characterization has been. It was a very pointless and silly scene. She should have been able to blow away the insects or float above them. Was there really any point in adding that scene at such a crucial moment in the storyline? Was it truly the best time to show us Saki can't handle bugs? What were they trying to tell us exactly? They seemed to be going out of their way to make Saki look weaker than she truly is. That scene was out of place.

How so? Even back then, Satoru was the one leading the charge.

And Saki still has what it takes to lead a village.

He only lead the charge because he got back his powers. And even then, Saki's advices were very valuable.

Saki overcame her fears and remained cool-headed throughout the whole ordeal. She saved Satoru on at least one instance. She was smart enough to figure how to undo the binding of Satoru's cantus. She acted bravely and pulled a first rate bluff on Squealer. And tons of other things I forget. She was very pro-active and not passive like she is now.

She was only 12 years old back then. Her 14 years old self was no different. I would have expected a 26 years old Saki to be even more resourceful.

She has always been this way. She's always been very emotionally expressive. She's never been the person to lead the fight.


Anyway, if Shinji never bothered you, I don't see any good reason for Saki to bother you.

No, she has not always been this way. She is not a very aggressive person, but she is certainly not passive either. Her character is not acting the same way as before, and this is what bothers me.

Perhaps I've been overestimating her all along. I held her in very high regards before this arc. She was a very strong, smart, and yet still emotional heroine.

[Moeterumoe]

Yeah, I also don't like Saki in this arc.

I prefer Satoru, he's the TRUE HERO of this series. The action guy and all that...

[kk2extreme]

It's a trap (literally)?:heh:

[Forsaken_Infinity]

I am late but let's get going ._.

First off, from what I gathered from the various off-screen sources (spoilers) from previous episodes that are safely past at this point, and I still only bring this because the discussion is pertaining to it and because the information was all mentioned in discussions for the past episodes and such, that is neither a hypnotic suggestion nor a split personality. Rather, she connects with Shun's own thoughts (soul, if you will) floating around in the collective consciousness that these "psychics" tap into to gain their power. She still has to interpret them and "he" can't tell her something she doesn't know etc. but she isn't suffering from a very rare mental disease and Shun didn't do anything magical to her either. They just had/have a strong connection and they both tap into this endless infinite stream of collective consciousness or something.

Think something like Lain. Better still, if you have seen Ghost Hound, think of what the physicist does after burning his house down. If you are into Oriental philosophy then one consciousness is a staple. And that is increasingly the case if you are into some interpretations of modern physics. Still, it remains a bastardization of the observer effect. Just not as bad as some others. The anime just hasn't done much explaining and because they chose to cut on the dialogue, a lot of pertinent and important information has been removed. For instance, I am told Satoru was going to present this as the competing theory to the theory that hypothesized that their power hails from the Sun. He also pointed out (this is in the anime) that there is essentially no way it's their internal power as human metabolism doesn't create enough energy for that. There would still be ways for a human to wield such powers but that would require some rather literal interpretations of the mass energy equivalency and I suspect that is a bastardization of degrees worse than this one is of the observer effect and collective consciousness.

That also explains the nature of their power. They kind of have to form a conscious mental picture of what they want to harness the power of the collective consciousness. If they can do that, most anything is fair game. If they can't, for whatever reason, including but not limited to exhaustion, fear, pain, numbness from medication etc., they can't use the power. That's probably why there's so much on and off going on although I would still attribute that largely to just ignorance from the anime staff. I highly doubt the novel author went to the trouble of detailing Saki's reaction to slugs to such detail that he mentioned how she walked over them, crushing each one a crunchy whole.

Now onto Saki and her character retardation of sorts.

I agree that Saki hasn't really shown the best composure lately and also that she showed much more promise as a child under stress. I don't necessarily condemn her just for being more expressive than the rest of her party. Women (human ones at least) are innately more expressive than men and in my book, that's one of the few places where their gender is clearly superior. That doesn't mean they are better off as a whole as being stoic has its own uses and thank God Saki is surrounded by some fairly "badass" men to handle that part of the bargain. Saki has made some pretty tough choices and while she may not have been "heroic" per se, she had a set role to play and she is doing her part fairly well. Part of being a leader is knowing that you are more valuable than others and trying your best not to fall unless otherwise inevitable, like some freakish accident, an injury that impedes others, or just plain old assassination.

However, I do think she hasn't, at least in the anime, displayed even normal composure that would be expected of somebody who has been through all she has and supposedly has the best mental stability. Rather, the anime has tried it's whole best to sorely point out that she is still deeply traumatized from ... well, everything. WTF. I don't mind her being scared of bugs and rather petrified in the face of an unknown mortal danger. I mind what the anime did with those insertions of Maria and how much of a moodkiller the stupid ending song is. For all my anime-viewing life, I have been a strict proponent for openings and endings and yet I get palpably angry when this stupid ending rolls in episode after episode after the character who is singing that is long dead. I blame the anime for this.

Even in this episode, they do their best to cue in her trauma over Shun. While I understand that Shun was an important influence in her life, and that he is still a central character, I don't understand why they have to portray Saki as weak and mentally unstable to make room for his entrance. She could be perfectly fine and strong-willed and still moved by remembering Shun. Heck, I would prefer that and if child Saki is anything to go by, it was certainly possible to portray such strength in tandem with emotional intensity and expressiveness.

Oh well. This anime had a strong start and some really impressive showing here and there but by and large, it missed the ball. Both in terms of where they could have marketed themselves better and where they could have done better with what they show on screen for a mature audience. I don't think pandering is bad per se, and I think it's telling when an anime manages to pander to specific groups without detracting from it's value and even better, from innovating creative ways to make the pandering have value even for those who would rather not have any such thing. But I really hate pandering of the sort where it's just a random, and very distracting, insertion. And I hate it more when it happens in an anime which didn't even attempt to be creative and utilize other valid opportunities to market itself to niche markets. SSY could have easily offered lots of things for essentially all the different markets there exist in anime fandom. There is that much room in the plot. And budget is a non-issue because making things work with low budget is the hallmark of good production.

I really wish I could say that I still consider the show a very good one and such but I think it's about time I take a lengthy break from anime as I am getting increasingly disoriented by "minor" things. In all fairness to SSY and the crew behind it, it's a good enough show that I am going to see it to completion even when I have stopped with nearly every other running show and don't plan to start new ones. But it's not the cynic in me that derides this show as a failure, it's the fan who has been heavily let down.

And yes, another point I really hold against the anime is it's treatment of Satoru. They totally didn't have to distance him from the spotlight to make room for Saki's relationship with Mamoru and Shun. And his being heroic and constantly maturing would have taken absolutely nothing away from the magnificence of Shun either. SSY the anime should look at Chihayafuru. Taichi is constantly evolving and always the savior and yet Arata retains his grace. Whenever he is on screen, the effect that he had when he was a prodigious child still makes itself obvious. And Chihaya's relationship with either men doesn't deteriorate. Rather, they are complimentary. And from what I know, that was the case in SSY the novel as well.

Btw, the episode itself was okay. Not nearly as good as the last one but something better than some other episodes.

Oh and about Kiroumaru, the show mentioning the possibility that he is a setup makes things more interesting but I am thinking it's either a red herring or that Kiroumaru's going to betray them but then side with them when it matters, due to a change of heart (possibly from his encounter with Saki?) or as he had always planned or whatever. I doubt he is going to be portrayed in all out negative terms but I won't complain should that be the case either.

[Squarecrow]

Then tell me where all the bold heroes were during the various shooting massacres that have plagued America in recent years and decades. You can't be serious. Do you truly expect people (most of the time kids/teenagers) to stand up to guns? This would be insane, not bold.
Though there were actually (unarmed) people who stood up to gunmen, knowing they would likely die. Liviu Librescu held the door to his classroom closed, while being shot through it, so his students could escape through the windows. That isn't the only instance of that. Recently 3 people tackled a gunman on a school bus and got the gun away before anyone was hurt.

They didn't even have PK, just balls!

[Forsaken_Infinity]

@Forsaken_Infinity

1) I read the novel, Shun IS DEAD. It's a split personality created by her subconscious.

2) Shun doesn't REALLY get that much spotlight, he died very early and we barely saw him since. But yes the anime does cut a lot of Satoru, but he's still the main male character and the most important character along-side saki.
I know that Shun is dead. I haven't read the novel so I don't exactly know the details and I will thus not argue with you or pursue this further but I was told their connection was due to the nature of their power which possibly results from their tapping into the collective consciousness and it was my interpretation (and sounded like the guy who wrote these thought much the same) that Shun and Saki's connection past his death was the novel's way of providing a proof for that hypothesis.

And no I am not saying the anime gives Shun the spotlight, rather that it tries too hard to be melodramatic and sell on the relationship aspects with past lovers or whatever. More so with Maria for obviously less-than-decent motives but also with Shun.

Yeah, Kuromitsu wrote in that episode thread that that scene where she says she loves Satoru was cut. So I knew that from AS.

I don't think I agree that Saki didn't love Maria. They both clearly loved each other. Physically and otherwise. It is possible to hold your love for someone over your love for someone else higher and still be more than friends. Maria herself chose Mamoru over Saki, after all.

[Triple_R]

Like what?

Like going on this very mission without the slightest hesitation or second thought? Kiroumaru's words about what Tokyo is like in the world of SSY weren't exactly subtle. And his words about how hellish this place is appears to be coming true.


She's only been running away and following directions (Tomiko's, her parents').

She's following directions, which is the opposite of running away in the deepest sense of the phrase "running away".

Granted, those directions have, until now, amounted to "run away to safety". But that's not the case now. She's on a mission to a very dangerous and hellish place to retrieve a very dangerous weapon.


You can't be serious. Do you truly expect people (most of the time kids/teenagers) to stand up to guns?

And how is a man with a gun any more dangerous than a cantus-using human that is able to kill you with a thought, wants you dead, and you literally can't hurt him?

Remember that Saki was told by Kiroumaru that Yakomaru and "the fiend" are following after them. It only makes sense that she would be extremely on-edge and expecting the worst to strike out at her at any moment. I definitely think anxiety over the thought of getting sneak-attacked at any possible moment by the Akki is a big part of what has Saki so frazzled in this episode.


Saki, while not as strong as the others, still has cantus. Something the writers seem to forget. She is not helpless. I at least expect her to be able to defend herself. She hasn't done that a single time in this arc. She's always protected by others. Having her stand still while a giant bug was about to eat her was the final straw for me.

Yes, I'll admit that she probably doesn't use her powers as much as she should.


It was just an example showing how odd Saki's characterization has been. It was a very pointless and silly scene. She should have been able to blow away the insects or float above them. Was there really any point in adding that scene at such a crucial moment in the storyline? Was it truly the best time to show us Saki can't handle bugs? What were they trying to tell us exactly? They seemed to be going out of their way to make Saki look weaker than she truly is. That scene was out of place.

Here is what I think this anime episode is trying to do.

It's trying to heighten the tension by showing how frazzled and somewhat shell-shocked the main character is.

I think that what it's aiming for is a viewer reaction of "Wow, even Saki is starting to crack a bit! Things are really getting extremely dire and we are heading for a great conclusion!" Unfortunately, the episode clearly missed the mark a bit for many viewers, resulting in "Man, what the hell is wrong with Saki? She's supposed to be stronger than this!"


She was only 12 years old back then. Her 14 years old self was no different. I would have expected a 26 years old Saki to be even more resourceful.

I know it's counter-intuitive, but some people decline with age in some respects. Going through a lot of hellish experiences can do that to a person.

The old saying "Whatever doesn't kill me will only serve to make me stronger" is true sometimes. But sometimes the opposite is true.


No, she has not always been this way.

She has not always been this frazzled. She hasn't always given off this world-weary vibe. But her basic personality is the same.




Perhaps I've been overestimating her all along. I held her in very high regards before this arc. She was a very strong, smart, and yet still emotional heroine.

I'll admit that I liked Saki a bit better when she was a kid/teenager. Yes, she had a bit more spunk to her back then.

Again, I think the impression we're supposed to get here is that even Saki's hope and resolve is dwindling. That the youthful "I'll never quit, I'll never give in, and I'll never say die!" passion of the character is slowly being crushed by the harshness of her reality.

This is probably setting up either a very tragic end, or an epic comeback. Sometimes a narrative breaks down a character and makes him or her look a bit pathetic in order to make their eventual comeback that much sweeter.

Maybe that's what we're in for here.


That being said, I don't like how she's actually going crazy with Shun visions. Yes, that feels a bit too much like "Break the cutie" to me. In other anime shows, I don't necessarily mind it, but I'd prefer not to see it in this one.

[kuromitsu]

I have a million things to say about people blaming Saki and calling her weak and useless and a damsel in distress but I don't have time, so I just leave a huge +1 for Triple_R here... :heh:

OK, just this one.

That scene in the last episode with the guano floor is a good example. The only reason I can see for the writers' making her walk through that goop rather than floating over it is to encourage the audience to feel sorry for her. If these guys can move giant boulders and submarines around with PK, certainly they could have transported a skinny young woman over the goop, even if Saki couldn't do it herself.
And they should do that every time she (or anyone else for that matter) feels discouraged? She had to conquer her fear and abhorrence. Obviously if she was completely incapable of doing it then Satoru would've carried her over, but I think we can agree that if she really was incapable of walking over a pile of crap and a swarm of bugs, she wouldn't be there anyway. (Then again, if I was there my first reaction would've been parting the guano and making a path through it, but I guess that would've been too easy a solution. :heh: Plus it could've disturbed the bugs.)

Seriously, from the way people talk about this scene, one would think she was throwing a hissy fit and kept stalling the team for hours, instead of freaking out for a couple of minutes, and then going ahead anyway.

It just makes me wonder whether the anime writers have diverted from the novel in their characterization of Saki during this arc. While she was never as powerful as her friends during adolescence, she wasn't without abilities as we could see in scenes like the search for Maria and Satoru when she motored around on that snowboard.
They didn't really deviate from the book as far as her character is concerned, though obviously there's a ton of dialogue and internal narration/thought processes being cut that make the whole thing a bit different. Saki isn't particularly great with her power, has never been. But she's not any worse, power-wise, here than she normally is or used to be.

But she was often portrayed as brave when she led them across the Barrier or struck out to find Maria and Mamoru. That side of her personality seems to have been buried in this arc, at least until she reached the laboratory. She certainly still has strengths like stoicism and perseverance.
She is still brave. Why do you think she isn't? :confused: She may have had moments of weakness but she did make it through all the guano, bugs, cockroaches*, hugely grotesque snail things, deadly mite swarms, giant centipedes of doom, all that horror and disgusting things, seeing her companion die, not knowing if Satoru is safe or even alive... she made it through all, got the psycho buster and got out of underground. What is this if not bravery?

*I like to think I have a certain amount of mental fortitude, but if there was a swarm of giant cockroaches between me and the MacGuffin for saving the world, I think I would need a big strong man or woman to carry me over them while I freak out and cry. :heh: Snakes, snails, spiders, larvae, bugs, no problem, but cockroaches... just no. (I have enough problems with the smaller ones, I don't even want to think about giant ones!)

But again I don't really care so much about these issues as those surrounding her on-again/off-again powers. She seems to have powers only when the writers decide she needs to do something like blow a hole in a rock wall.
But what is your problem with the portrayal of her power? :confused: The only thing in this episode related to that was Inui killing the first giant mukade and not her, which made sense because 1) Inui was in a better position to see the mukade, 2) as a professional "shinigami" aka bakenezumi killer, he's stronger than her, has better reflexes and more fight experience. He's technically a soldier while Saki is a civilian.

I think it's important for everyone to remember...

Leaders are not born, they are made and crafted by their experiences.
SERIOUSLY. Why is this so difficult to understand? :heh:

[Dr. Casey]

Snakes, snails, spiders, larvae, bugs, no problem, but cockroaches... just no. (I have enough problems with the smaller ones, I don't even want to think about giant ones!)

Cockroaches are pretty much the only thing in the world my Vietnam veteran father is afraid of. :heh: Of course, that dates all the way back to when he was two or three, since his older siblings used to chase him around the house with giant cockroaches in hand when he was a toddler.

I don't mind cockroaches much, but I am deathly terrified of spiders. If we're ever trapped in a cave, you can handle the spiders and I'll kill the cockroaches.

That's your opinion, not a fact.

I have to say that, if Saki doesn't have any romantic feelings for Maria, she's kind of leading her on. Passionately making out with, and even having sex with, someone that's in love with you but to whom you don't return the feelings? :uhoh: That's kind of evil, Saki. Not even Chiyuri from Accel World sends those mixed of signals. My 31st century waifu can't be this much of a femme fatale.

I know it's counter-intuitive, but some people decline with age in some respects. Going through a lot of hellish experiences can do that to a person.

The old saying "Whatever doesn't kill me will only serve to make me stronger" is true sometimes. But sometimes the opposite is true.

Interesting you say this, because I've had the impression ever since the beginning of this new story arc that Saki's become somewhat broken down from her traumatic adolescence. It's not at all uncommon in reality for people who go through hellish upbringings to remain strong for however long that strength is required, then crumble afterwards. I know someone who sometimes laments the fact that he feels he isn't as strong as he was a child. He grew up in a violent, crime-ridden ghetto and lived through a rather nightmarish childhood; he endured because he had to and described himself as being a tough kid, but after moving to a much cleaner, nicer town at age 14 and finally finding himself safe and secure, the stress he'd gone through up to that point hit him more sharply and he found it difficult to experience any kind of stress without becoming completely frazzled.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Interesting you say this, because I've had the impression ever since the beginning of this new story arc that Saki's become somewhat broken down from her traumatic adolescence. It's not at all uncommon in reality for people who go through hellish upbringings to remain strong for however long that strength is required, then crumble afterwards. I know someone who sometimes laments the fact that he feels he isn't as strong as he was a child. He grew up in a violent, crime-ridden ghetto and lived through a rather nightmarish childhood; he endured because he had to and described himself as being a tough kid, but after moving to a much cleaner, nicer town at age 14 and finally finding himself safe and secure, the stress he'd gone through up to that point hit him more sharply and he found it difficult to experience any kind of stress without becoming completely frazzled.
The last part applies to me a bit as well. Not necessarily just with stress but with my overall ability and "worth" if you will. But to be absolutely objective, I think a lot of it is just nostalgia and the super obvious fact that you do lose certain things, mostly those related with the brain such as memory, psychological adaptability and creativity, as you age. In return for experience. It's not always a fair trade, and at some point in life, the deficit is guaranteed to set in. But it mostly is. And a stable mind - not a strong (in face of dangerous crime sort of thing) mind, mind you, as that's more Satoru's game, but a stable mind, one that doesn't go awry over traumatic events - should really not display PTSD symptoms to the degree Saki is.

[SeijiSensei]

And yes, please drop the ED. It was a bad idea to begin with, but seeing it pop up the way things are happening now is borderline travesty.

I'll repeat my comment from an earlier thread. Kanazawa is in the process of releasing a number of albums at the moment. I have little doubt that the continued use of this ED has a lot more to do with Sony than anything having to do with Shin Sekai Yori.

[Kanon]

And how is a man with a gun any more dangerous than a cantus-using human that is able to kill you with a thought, wants you dead, and you literally can't hurt him?

I'm not arguing against that. There's clearly nothing she can do against the fiend. I was talking about the various creatures that attacked her in this episode.

Here is what I think this anime episode is trying to do. It's trying to heighten the tension by showing how frazzled and somewhat shell-shocked the main character is.

I think that what it's aiming for is a viewer reaction of "Wow, even Saki is starting to crack a bit! Things are really getting extremely dire and we are heading for a great conclusion!" Unfortunately, the episode clearly missed the mark a bit for many viewers, resulting in "Man, what the hell is wrong with Saki? She's supposed to be stronger than this!"

Then I think pairing her up with three complete badasses (though I'm still unsure we can call Satoru that) was a mistake, because it makes her appear weaker than she is. We don't have a proper point of comparison anymore. All the people she met in this arc were strong, save for the two survivors at the hospital who were completely gone.

I know it's counter-intuitive, but some people decline with age in some respects. Going through a lot of hellish experiences can do that to a person.

The old saying "Whatever doesn't kill me will only serve to make me stronger" is true sometimes. But sometimes the opposite is true.

That's true. However, we have been told by Tomiko that Saki is the opposite! She was able to remain the same even after discovering the horrifying truth about their society. She also sort of overcame Shun's death at the very end of episode ten, where she decided she would survive no matter what (afterwards her memories were altered with so we don't know how she would have acted). She was able to accept the fact she would never see Maria again and continue living on.

But ever since she found out Maria was dead, I feel like she's been starting to break down. She took the news very badly and hasn't been able to get over it. I can't remember anything else affecting her that much. That's where her character turned around for me. She's kind of been lost in a daze ever since... and the Shun thing is not helping. Neither is the fact the "fiend" is Maria's son (daughter?). She would have probably let herself get killed if Satoru hadn't brought her back to her senses in episode 21.

Again, I think the impression we're supposed to get here is that even Saki's hope and resolve is dwindling. That the youthful "I'll never quit, I'll never give in, and I'll never say die!" passion of the character is slowly being crushed by the harshness of her reality.

This is probably setting up either a very tragic end, or an epic comeback. Sometimes a narrative breaks down a character and makes him or her look a bit pathetic in order to make their eventual comeback that much sweeter.

Maybe that's what we're in for here.

I hope she will rebound then. That would be the ultimate proof Tomiko was right about her. When she finally faces Yakomaru, I want her to stand tall. Maybe finally remembering Shun will give her the mental push she needs.

The preview gives me a good feeling. Satoru is now the one who needs to be protected from doing something reckless, and only Saki can save him now. I'm afraid she will want to save the kid from Satoru instead though, which may result in Satoru getting killed (god, no!)... I can't shake the feeling he's going to die.

[relentlessflame]

I deleted a bunch of posts because they either:

a) were referencing the novels without properly-labelled spoiler tags
b) were quoting the novel without any sort of English translation
c) were referring to external material not shown in the anime without properly-labelled spoiler tags
d) were replies to posts that featured any of the above

Please consult the Forum Rules (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=rules) and the Spoiler Policy for more information about what can be posted. Some of these topics may be better-suited for the Spoiler & Speculation thread (where novel spoilers can be discussed).

[4Tran]

I've finally caught up with Shin Sekai Yori - 14-23 in the last couple of days. It's been a great ride, and I'm overall very impressed with what the creators have done with the story. It's quite amazing that this show is airing at the same time as Psycho-Pass since they are so similar, but Shin Sekai Yori pulls off the themes is vastly superior. Moreover, there's been much better direction and art design throughout the show (albeit with very inconsistent animation). It's really interesting how the direction has been able to make very lengthy conversations both entertaining and tense. There's a lot of anime works that can learn from this.

Unfortunately, the episode threads in this sub-forum are pretty much unreadable. Can't you guys post better?

[Dr. Casey]

Then I think pairing her up with three complete badasses (though I'm still unsure we can call Satoru that)

I don't know, I think that someone who singlehandedly massacred an army of queerats when he was 12 years old - and supremely enjoyed himself while doing so - very much deserves the title of badass. Like, imagine if Satoru was present for a conversation where he and a few others talked about their favorite childhood memories...

"I always loved it whenever my mom read me fairy tales at bedtime."
"My grandmother always brought me lots of toys whenever she visited us."
"Hmm... I think my favorite childhood memory was that time I spent an entire day fighting a solo war against an army of hundreds upon hundreds of bloodthirsty monsters. That was just a really relaxing, fun day. Wish I could go back to those times..."

Now that is one badass motherfucker, Kanon my boy.

[Triple_R]

But ever since she found out Maria was dead, I feel like she's been starting to break down. She took the news very badly and hasn't been able to get over it. I can't remember anything else affecting her that much. That's where her character turned around for me.

That's an interesting observation. And now that I think about it, you're right.

Saki displayed a fair degree of spunk and strength even in the handful of episodes that there were after Shun's death but before Maria ran away. But ever since Maria passed on, Saki has become a bit more passive, and a bit more withdrawn.

It's like losing Maria took the color out of Saki's world, and now the world is so bleak that Saki needs to make an extra effort to push herself forward whereas before it came more naturally.

When you combine the effect that Maria running away had on Saki, along with Saki basically blaming Maria for what's happening now, it's hard to not get the impression of a depressed and jilted lover. :heh:


I hope she will rebound then. That would be the ultimate proof Tomiko was right about her. When she finally faces Yakomaru, I want her to stand tall. Maybe finally remembering Shun will give her the mental push she needs.

I'm also very much looking forward to the next meeting between Saki and Yakomaru. I hope it'll have a nice climatic feel to it, and that Saki will stand tall in that moment.

[Reckoner]

I've finally caught up with Shin Sekai Yori - 14-23 in the last couple of days. It's been a great ride, and I'm overall very impressed with what the creators have done with the story. It's quite amazing that this show is airing at the same time as Psycho-Pass since they are so similar, but Shin Sekai Yori pulls off the themes is vastly superior. Moreover, there's been much better direction and art design throughout the show (albeit with very inconsistent animation). It's really interesting how the direction has been able to make very lengthy conversations both entertaining and tense. There's a lot of anime works that can learn from this.

Unfortunately, the episode threads in this sub-forum are pretty much unreadable. Can't you guys post better?

This show doesn't have a whole lot of meat and potatoes to grapple over like Psycho Pass (This is all relative, of course compared to your dime a dozen moe girl show it looks way more brilliant). At the end of the day, it does not provide a terrible amount of insight into our modern society. It's definitely a great show, but that's more owed to its excellent direction, imaginative setting, and stylistic presentation. Also, the characters are very good.

Really past the cynical, serious nature of both series I hardly think PP and SSY are all that comparable.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

I've finally caught up with Shin Sekai Yori - 14-23 in the last couple of days. It's been a great ride, and I'm overall very impressed with what the creators have done with the story. It's quite amazing that this show is airing at the same time as Psycho-Pass since they are so similar, but Shin Sekai Yori pulls off the themes is vastly superior. Moreover, there's been much better direction and art design throughout the show (albeit with very inconsistent animation). It's really interesting how the direction has been able to make very lengthy conversations both entertaining and tense. There's a lot of anime works that can learn from this.

Unfortunately, the episode threads in this sub-forum are pretty much unreadable. Can't you guys post better?
Eh I suppose watching the episodes in a row does help get over the mess made as you don't think too much about it before further content rolls in and you don't have to wait a whole week agonizing over how much worse it will get before you can honestly be relieved and say "Hey wait, actually, they did a great job this time!"

And give the people here more credit. The posts happen in sort of real time and mostly as dialogue. They aren't really intended to serve as hallmarks for somebody coming in 10 episodes down the road. They ought to be fairly interesting for those who are patient enough but that is a lot to ask from even the most patient folks. Should you do a run next time for some other anime, I suggest following the discussion threads for each episode right after the episode (if that show doesn't have a sub-forum, just go up to the page where they start talking about things you haven't seen: I did/do this with great success with certain shows like Chihayafuru and Ixion Saga: DT) and before you see the next episode. Don't come in after you have seen the whole bulk. Of course, you may have already done as I recommend and I am sorry if that's the case but that's a pretty boring thing to do once the rush of a fresh episode is over and you really didn't miss much, as you obviously know, anyway.

I haven't exactly kept up with Psycho Pass but I also think the shows are different enough to be incomparable even though they are both dystopian sci-fis that both dwell primarily on the Red Queen effect, as some poster (CJ_Walker, iirc) pointed out in the last episode thread for PP (he didn't mention SSY, I just thought that hell, that's exactly what SSY does too). I would say it's expected of SSY to have a more fleshed out story and better characters as it's adapting an actual novel. Gen fans maybe offended but at the end of the day, he only wrote PP as an anime writer and that's a hell lot less room to work with than a fully fledged novel.

As for Saki becoming more passive after Maria's leave, I think the anime bore it into us too much with all those totally random flashbacks where Maria claims she was going to protect Saki. And the totally out of place Ending, Sony and HanaKana or not. I already ranted about this one too many times but WTF, just 4 episodes before, Maria was commending Saki on her fortitude and informing her that the weaker ones in her group were the ones needing consideration. And hell she chose to go with Mamoru, also mentioning how she could no longer live in that twisted a village, while trusting that Saki would be a-okay in the village just the episode before. So what's with those dumb flashbacks? Heck, they put those in places where the natural proceeding would have been for Satoru and Saki to confide in and console each other as the only remaining friends. Not complaining about what was axed off the novel here. Just that spending screen-time showing Saki running after wild delusions of Maria while she doesn't even spend any remotely personal moment with Satoru is by and large responsible for making both Saki and Satoru look less than they should. Oh well.

However, you must remember that while it may look like Maria's leave triggered Saki's depression, it's actually not just Maria but also Shun and the boy who has been forgotten and the girl who they weren't supposed to remember and her sister who couldn't write her name properly with "the power" and thus got axed etc. etc. Sure the last stone may have caused the boat to sink but the bag had plenty of other stones already in.

[kuromitsu]

When you combine the effect that Maria running away had on Saki, along with Saki basically blaming Maria for what's happening now, it's hard to not get the impression of a depressed and jilted lover. :heh:
But Maria running away happened 12 years ago. Saki kept believing that she was alive, yes, but deep down in her rational mind, she already knew it was unlikely. Doesn't mean she wasn't shaken by the news, but it's not like she's not herself because she's pining after Maria. (Also, when did she blame her for what's happening now?)

Saki is emotionally exhausted. It's been roughly one week ago that she learned that Maria was dead (and Mamoru too, poor boy). And within the last 2-3 days, she had to deal with the bakenezumi attacking her village and killing many people, learning that there's an akki on the loose, Tomiko and many others dying, finding out that the akki was Maria's and Mamoru's son, knowing that her parents may very well be dead, and now it's up to her to save everyone by going through hell and finding a horrible weapon so she can kill her best friend's son. It's no wonder she's not exactly chipper.

[Triple_R]

This show doesn't have a whole lot of meat and potatoes to grapple over like Psycho Pass (This is all relative, of course compared to your dime a dozen moe girl show it looks way more brilliant). At the end of the day, it does not provide a terrible amount of insight into our modern society. It's definitely a great show, but that's more owed to its excellent direction, imaginative setting, and stylistic presentation. Also, the characters are very good.

Really past the cynical, serious nature of both series I hardly think PP and SSY are all that comparable.

I largely agree with this.

SSY is a more imaginative show than Psycho-Pass, but then that also means that SSY is way more divorced from our modern society than Psycho-Pass is. I find that Psycho-Pass says a lot more about our modern society than what SSY does. That's not to say SSY doesn't have some thematic strength to it, but I'm not sure if it's quite as pertinent and applicable as what you can take from Psycho-Pass.

But then, like you said, this is relative. Both shows have more substance to them than your standard anime fare.

There are some other similarities between SSY and Psycho-Pass, though...



1. Both shows have a society that tries to seem like an utopia, but is actually a dystopia that is governed through secrecy and a certain degree of ruthlessness. Sibyl Japan and the Villages of SSY do have some interesting similarities between them.

2. Both shows have somewhat similar revolutionary antagonists. Similar roles, anyway, certainly not similar looks. :heh:

3. I think that the female leads for both shows have a lot of things in common.

[Moeterumoe]

But Maria running away happened 12 years ago. Saki kept believing that she was alive, yes, but deep down in her rational mind, she already knew it was unlikely. Doesn't mean she wasn't shaken by the news, but it's not like she's not herself because she's pining after Maria. (Also, when did she blame her for what's happening now?)

Saki is emotionally exhausted. It's been roughly one week ago that she learned that Maria was dead (and Mamoru too, poor boy). And within the last 2-3 days, she had to deal with the bakenezumi attacking her village and killing many people, learning that there's an akki on the loose, Tomiko and many others dying, finding out that the akki was Maria's and Mamoru's son, knowing that her parents may very well be dead, and now it's up to her to save everyone by going through hell and finding a horrible weapon so she can kill her best friend's son. It's no wonder she's not exactly chipper.

I've got tired of people claiming Saki blame Maria for everything.

It's not like that.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Dang I edit my posts too much.

Well, to keep with the tradition, I don't agree that SSY says less about our society than PP does. Quite the opposite imho.

For one, here we have actual people, live people with all their insecurities and flaws, and not a system running things behind the show. And they aren't nearly as powerful, omniscient or omnipresent. They are a much more accurate portrayal of the degeneration of (rather, problems pertaining to) human leadership than Sybil is.

For another, the antagonists here are a whole race of sentient creatures and not just one quirky guy. One whole race of sentient creatures that have been mistreated through generations. One whole race of sentient creatures that rise through civilization much like humans did, only much faster. We see both the benefits and the costs of that here in SSY. Again, much more telling about humans than PP.

And lastly, the situation the protagonists find themselves in SSY is much more of a dilemma and much more concerned with human nature than what Akane finds herself in PP. I haven't seen the latest episode of PP yet though. But I doubt this will change.

SSY even had these huge info-dumps where they somewhat detailed humanity's fall and predicament. It's essentially just a rinse-and-repeat: the classic "history repeats itself" for the most part. And history does indeed repeat. Human intellectuals and leaders, heck most humans today, for the most part, are inclined to think that we are at the high point of civilization and that things will only get better from here on even if there are some really bleak things on the radar. So did the Romans and the Greeks and the Persians and the people in the Indus valley and the Mayans and the Chinese dynasties from eons on every whence they were prosperous. And so do the humans in SSY. They think (okay, a lot of them don't actually know what's going on, but the leaders do) that they are better than ever, that they are secure. They have insecurities about their kids, mind you, but they are essentially content with their status quo. They don't consider themselves fallible to another race of sentient creatures, creatures that boast ranks upon ranks of extremely qualified and trained soldiers and members that can all think freely. Yep, it's all the same as history is evident. They fall. And so shall we, the humans of present time. We did in the fictional SSY universe in much the same manner as most other civilizations ever. And heck, our descendants managed to do it twice over before we reached Saki and co.

Of course, as a show, PP is much more consistent than SSY. But in terms of just flat out material and potential, SSY is a heck lot better. I still agree largely that the shows are best left to each their own.

[Arya]

I didn't find Saki out of her character that much to be honest. What I found odd was that they send her to this mission in the first place. It was a really risky and dangerous task, why send the next leader, someone who is not suited for that kind of dangerous stuffs, risking to lose her, when you already had the most skilled queerat, the most skilled human alive, Satoru, and a quite skilled man, Inui. I really thought that it was just because it was needed by the plot. So, once you put her in such a place I cant say that Saki acted ooc.
Probably because I thought of her as a new Tomiko. So thinking about her, Tomiko, she has never been portrayed as a soldier, but as a wise woman. (how much wise is yet to be seen, but let that alone til the end of the show :heh:) A wise woman of 260 more years. Not 26, as Saki. When a zero makes the difference :D
So what I'm expecting by Saki is not bravery or whatnot, but is the ability to spot the major and minor flaws that afflicted her society with a clarity that a normal person, after all that they passed through, normally would not have. So basically what I'm saying is that she is not yet what she is expected to be. But when the time will come that all this hell will ends probably the humans first thought would be to kill all the queerats of the island and probably of the world. Instead she will come out with some wise idea, I don't know what, that will lead both to a peaceful future. I'm just guessing to make clear what I have in mind, it's not a speculation.

But, it's true that her character felt a bit weakened in this arc. First because the fact that she has been chosen as the next leader is hard to be seen yet, because this is not her playing field. But still she is, so we are expecting something from her. Despite the fact that the situation they have been living now is far different and more and more tragic than the one they passed through when they were children. It's not comparable, they are on the verge of being annihilated and on top of that there is a fiend, or supposed one, that supposedly is Maria&Mamoru's child. (I didn't get if Saki already realized that or not, but she should have).

And second because I find that her characterization jars with Satoru's, who never flinch, He always knows what they have to do and when they have and so on. So If Inui was a soldier, Satoru is not, so I don't digest well this differentiation between them, Saki and Satoru. So, looking at them someone could thinks that one or the other is too weak or too strong. I always thought that Satoru is too strong, so now it doesn't surprise me that much. But still along with Saki it emphasizes her weak side.

Last, even if was intense, her mystical reunion with her dead lover sounded a bit, well, mystical as I said. :)

So different things that put together surely could weak her character.

but, in the end, my question is the same of the previous episode, what matters if the fiend is really a fiend or not? They are giving much importance to this nitpicking that I fear Saki would try to save him. :uhoh:

[Kirarakim]

Unfortunately, the episode threads in this sub-forum are pretty much unreadable. Can't you guys post better?


There have been a lot of great posts and insight from people on these boards. I have not always agreed with every poster but I have enjoyed discussing this show with everyone.


Anyways as for this episode: Inui I didn't get to know you long but I will miss you.

I guess this episode addressed our thoughts about Kiroumaru from last week.

As for the Shun scene I thought it was beautifully done. I don't think Shun is alive but I think Shun is somehow within Saki (as they already mentioned during this episode). The preview doesn't show Shun at all, so I guess it can't be a very big part of the next episode. And yes the ending song sucks.


Finally about Saki being a damsel in distress I completely disagree. I understand she has shown fear and weakness but what stands out to me is she has never given up and she keeps going. The scene when Inui died was notable to me because Saki dived to grab the library creature and then cried. She then ran off to do what she must and located the psychobuster.

Remember bravery is not the absence of fear and I think Saki illustrates this quite well.

[4Tran]

Really past the cynical, serious nature of both series I hardly think PP and SSY are all that comparable.
Both shows are about the steps that society needs to address its malignant portions. Moreover, these steps are extreme measures that inflict a large human cost that warps their society in negative ways.

The shows do greatly vary in quality, but that shouldn't be a barrier for comparison.

Eh I suppose watching the episodes in a row does help get over the mess made as you don't think too much about it before further content rolls in and you don't have to wait a whole week agonizing over how much worse it will get before you can honestly be relieved and say "Hey wait, actually, they did a great job this time!"
Shin Sekai Yori has had mostly very good episodes though. The only weak ones I can think of are 5, 6, 13 and 22. The art and animation could be better a lot of the time, but I think that the direction, both visual and audio, make up for a lot of that.

And give the people here more credit. The posts happen in sort of real time and mostly as dialogue. They aren't really intended to serve as hallmarks for somebody coming in 10 episodes down the road.
It's not just the bad posts - there are tons of spoilers dropped nonchalantly too. Look at all the deleted posts and banned posters just in this thread.

And don't get me started on all the "why isn't Saki more badass?" posts.

[Kirarakim]

there are tons of spoilers dropped nonchalantly too. Look at all the deleted posts and banned posters just in this thread.

That is unfortunately a problem you have with pretty much all series that are not original. I don't think this is a reflection on the viewers of this series as a whole.

And don't get me started on all the "why isn't Saki more badass?" posts.

Although I disagree with the argument that Saki is a weak character in this arc I also disagree that these people are arguing that Saki should be more badass.

[Reckoner]

Both shows are about the steps that society needs to address its malignant portions. Moreover, these steps are extreme measures that inflict a large human cost that warps their society in negative ways.

The shows do greatly vary in quality, but that shouldn't be a barrier for comparison.


This is an interesting comparison, but then the primary motivations are different. Psycho-Pass's system arose out of advancements in science and technology (What if we could technologically predetermine people's potential criminality and how would society use this information?). In Shinsekai Yori this is a society born out of necessity. Facing a quite literal apocalypse in the form of cantus users who we have no ways to reliably control through normal means, they had to shape their society in a way to save the very human race.

Ultimately, PP leaves more room for debate because in SSY the scary thing is that there really isn't an alternative solution to their problems. The decisions are all fairly logical, no matter how awful and obvious it might seem. I don't really see people here commenting too much on the legitimacy of this society's decisions beyond the fact that they see it as horrible/sad. Whereas at least in Psycho-Pass, there isn't an obvious right or wrong answer in theory ( I know the show clearly wants to portray the society in the end as wrong, and that's another discussion).

Yet in the end, PP's issues are much more directly related to our modern world. Shinsekai Yori we don't really have a very apt comparison (Maybe nukes and countries at best).


And don't get me started on all the "why isn't Saki more badass?" posts.

Considering I am one of the posters who complained about her characterization, I think it's not wrong to feel that the writing is a little bit inconsistent here. Tomiko made it a huge point that she thought Saki should be her replacement, yet the qualities of an unflappable leader have not really been visible lately. It was when she was younger, but this arc has seen nothing but a very passive and emotional Saki who has done next to nothing. Satoru has often come off as more worthy of a "leadership" position than Saki, and that to me is wrong.

[4Tran]

That is unfortunately a problem you have with pretty much all series that are not original. I don't think this is a reflection on the viewers of this series as a whole.
It certainly feels a lot worse in these threads than usual.

This is an interesting comparison, but then the primary motivations are different. Psycho-Pass's system arose out of advancements in science and technology (What if we could technologically predetermine people's potential criminality and how would society use this information?). In Shinsekai Yori this is a society born out of necessity. Facing a quite literal apocalypse in the form of cantus users who we have no ways to reliably control through normal means, they had to shape their society in a way to save the very human race.
They're both born out of necessity, otherwise they'd be discarded.

Ultimately, PP leaves more room for debate because in SSY the scary thing is that there really isn't an alternative solution to their problems. The decisions are all fairly logical, no matter how awful and obvious it might seem. I don't really see people here commenting too much on the legitimacy of this society's decisions beyond the fact that they see it as horrible/sad. Whereas at least in Psycho-Pass, there isn't an obvious right or wrong answer in theory ( I know the show clearly wants to portray the society in the end as wrong, and that's another discussion).
The show itself has been arguing that all of the problems within arise from the draconian measures imposed for the sake of security. It's sort of been the point of most of the episodes!

Considering I am one of the posters who complained about her characterization, I think it's not wrong to feel that the writing is a little bit inconsistent here. Tomiko made it a huge point that she thought Saki should be her replacement, yet the qualities of an unflappable leader have not really been visible lately. It was when she was younger, but this arc has seen nothing but a very passive and emotional Saki who has done next to nothing. Satoru has often come off as more worthy of a "leadership" position than Saki, and that to me is wrong.
That seems to be missing the point. There's nothing wrong with Saki being weak or seeming to be weak.

[Reckoner]

They're both born out of necessity, otherwise they'd be discarded.

I don't want to drag this off topic to PP, so just going to say I disagree with this notion. I think SSY's society is born out of necessity, but not PP.


The show itself has been arguing that all of the problems within arise from the draconian measures imposed for the sake of security. It's sort of been the point of most of the episodes!

Saki herself said when she was older that she understand why the adults acted the way they did...

The current issues in this arc are because they were too arrogant to recognize the queerats as a threat. I was mostly talking about the measures they took to prevent the rise of fiends/karma demons.

That seems to be missing the point. There's nothing wrong with Saki being weak or seeming to be weak.

So why did Tomiko give her special consideration? No there's nothing wrong with that, but then that would imply she is normal. The show has tried to convey otherwise - that she's a strong leader.

[kuromitsu]

So why did Tomiko give her special consideration? No there's nothing wrong with that, but then that would imply she is normal. The show has tried to convey otherwise - that she's a strong leader.
The show never implied that she was a strong, unflappable leader. Both Maria and Saki's mom, both of whom loved Saki dearly, went out of their way to point out that Saki cries easily, she's easily discouraged, etc. and yet she has a strength in her that allows her to go on and to stay true to herself even when others fail. Her strength is her integrity, that no matter what happens she won't break, she won't lose sight of herself, and she's doing absolutely fine on that front right now. She's a survivor who may cry and be scared, but she pulls through anyway, and learns from her experiences.

Also, as some of us have said so many times now, she's still very young and she's carrying a heavy burden in a situation no-one could have prepared her for. She's learning now, the hard way. Is she doing 100% perfect? nope. Can she make mistakes? sure! But so far she hasn't let weakness take her over.

I still say many people here are either having unrealistic expectations of Saki, or are greatly exaggerating her recent "weak" behavior. If she was truly as weak as people seem to think she is, she would be curled up in a corner somewhere, waiting for the nightmare to end, mission abandoned, or she would've simply lost her mind.

[Repelsteeltju]

Considering I am one of the posters who complained about her characterization, I think it's not wrong to feel that the writing is a little bit inconsistent here. Tomiko made it a huge point that she thought Saki should be her replacement, yet the qualities of an unflappable leader have not really been visible lately. It was when she was younger, but this arc has seen nothing but a very passive and emotional Saki who has done next to nothing. Satoru has often come off as more worthy of a "leadership" position than Saki, and that to me is wrong.
Tomiko electing Saki to lead seemed strange to me. As an eventuality it was a fine choice and if Saki was taught the telemore reparation trick then all the better. However Saki is, just as Tomiko once was, unremarkable, inexperienced and presumably bested by 1/2 of the population in most respects. She's not the one you want to organize your desperate last ditch effort to save at the very least your culture and at worst prevent the annihilation of your species.

Then again, she hasn't been doing much leading. I suppose one might argue that it's a desirable trait in a leader to know when to leave the ones being led to their own devices. But if that's all you can do you're definitively not a leader and should not be presented as such. I can't think of a single meaningful contribution Saki has made during this road trip and that bothers me because while she's always been somewhat bland (alas the curse of a many the POV-characters) she's been one of the more enjoyable characters in the series.

It's like her only purpose in this arc is to be a constant relatable presence to the audience with no other trait or function than to voice our perceived thoughts (i.e. yuck... dirt, bat shit, mites and slugs) and the occasional bathing scene. Would it hurt that much to have Saki ask the little library thing an insightful question? I want to see the proactive Saki again, the Saki that restored Satoru's cantus and led him to victory in the first rat war arc and the Saki that evaded the village guards and faced the village's horrors to find Shun in the arc that followed after that.

Saki characterization this arc up til and in this episode is hurting the series. But it looks like that's going to change. With Inui dead, Kiromaru turned and Satoru either on the run or reduced to a damsel. She'll have to do something. And I'll have great effect on how I'll rate the ending.

[Solace]

It's not just the bad posts - there are tons of spoilers dropped nonchalantly too. Look at all the deleted posts and banned posters just in this thread.

And don't get me started on all the "why isn't Saki more badass?" posts.

That comes from a particular user who has been attempting to circumvent bans. The bulk of the posters here have been very good about discussing spoilers, with a few exceptions here and there that always crop up, usually just from excitement.

Psycho Pass is an original work. It's a bit harder to spoil people when no one knows what is going to happen in the next episode.

As for quality of discussion, well, that's what happens when a show like this, which clearly isn't popular (though it should be, imo :p), has such a small community. There's no huge name like Gen attached to it. The source material is largely untranslated, so there's no built in fanbase prior to airing. There isn't really any fanservice or ecchi content. It's not graphically violent. A lot of the plot is through conversation, but without the wacky antics to make it "less boring" like Shaft and some other studios use. And there's really no characters to ship (although some have tried).

So forgive me if this sounds a bit defensive, but it feels a bit lame for you to appear in the thread and deride the community that has formed around this show because you don't believe it meets your standards for quality discussion.

[4Tran]

My complaint wasn't based on just this thread. I was going to write a post after watching episode 16, but I gave up on that after seeing spoilers about Maria's child. Then, jump to this thread, and I was seeing more of the same. While it may be an overreaction on my part, I'm also uncomfortable posting in this sub-forum.

[kuromitsu]

And there's really no characters to ship (although some have tried).
Well, there are characters to ship, it's just that they're either dead or having trouble coping with the others being dead, so there's not a whole lot of point in it... :heh: "See that flag over there?" *boom* "what flag lol" :heh: (Also, the dead ones were 14-16 and the currently non-dead ones are 26, which doesn't really help anyone's case. XD;; )

[ChainLegacy]

Well, there are characters to ship, it's just that they're either dead or having trouble coping with the others being dead, so there's not a whole lot of point in it... :heh: "See that flag over there?" *boom* "what flag lol" :heh: (Also, the dead ones were 14-16 and the currently non-dead ones are 26, which doesn't really help anyone's case. XD;; )

My favorite pairing (not that I'm your typical shipper in any way, shape, or form...) has been Saki and Satoru since way back when they first got lost in the woods and were being manipulated by Yakomaru to do his dirty work. They're both still alive, but I'm worried that perhaps Satoru may bite the bullet next episode... hope not.

[Solace]

My complaint wasn't based on just this thread. I was going to write a post after watching episode 16, but I gave up on that after seeing spoilers about Maria's child. Then, jump to this thread, and I was seeing more of the same. While it may be an overreaction on my part, I'm also uncomfortable posting in this sub-forum.

I understand that. However there's a limit to how well the policy works. You know this from your prior experiences. We can police as best as possible, but spoilers will always get through. From my tenure as the primary mod of this subforum, I can state that most of the spoilers flying around weren't really spoilers at all. Some of it was poorly phrased speculation, some of it was just obvious guesswork, and some of it was people who thought they knew certain spoilers but instead were just rehashing false information from somewhere else (due to the lack of English translation, most spoilers are second hand sourced). There is an English translated manga as well, but those spoilers don't have much relation to the anime or the novel, but unfortunately some of those readers didn't know that.

The particular user I mentioned also did a lot of harm to the posting environment, by creating multiple duplicate accounts and blasting out spoiler after spoiler before we were aware of it and damage control took effect. We haven't had many people as persistent about circumventing bans as this person has been, considering he was initially banned way back around episode 8 or so. I won't go into the details of how he's been doing this in public, but I'm sure you can guess.

And of course, there's only so much discussion to moderate. If I were to take an extreme stance on the spoiler policy, the already limited discussion that does exist would dwindle to nothing. That sounds like a copout, but I'll be brutally honest: it's simply impossible to have a completely spoiler free environment, and people who expect otherwise, shouldn't. Unfortunately this means such people completely remove themselves from nearly all discussion for fear of spoilers, and this means even fewer people to spur meaningful conversation.

It's a combination of many things that results in how a community is formed, progressed, sustained, and ultimately dwindled.

To those who are spoiler phobic, the only thing I can say is the water is always cold when you first dip a toe in. If you don't take a plunge, you'll never get used to it. And look on the bright side, at least you have the choice. As a mod, I'm often spoiled on everything before most stuff even hits current discussion. :heh:

[SeijiSensei]

It's not just the bad posts - there are tons of spoilers dropped nonchalantly too.

Go visit the Magi thread which I have found nearly unreadable because of the degree of whining and spoilage by manga readers (though in defense of our illustrious moderators, the whining was the more annoying of the two). At least the core group of discussants here largely avoid spoilers and have conducted themselves rather well, I think.

Earlier you mentioned Maria and Mamoru's child as an example of spoiling. I thought the discussion about that subject followed rather naturally from the hints that were dropped in the show which led to speculation.

[apotheosis]

I still say many people here are either having unrealistic expectations of Saki, or are greatly exaggerating her recent "weak" behavior. If she was truly as weak as people seem to think she is, she would be curled up in a corner somewhere, waiting for the nightmare to end, mission abandoned, or she would've simply lost her mind.

IMO the recent episodes have exagurrated her weakness to help the viewer connect with how scary things are. This seems like a deliberate narritive device. I can understand that they want us to react to the suddenness of a monster rushing onto the screen by reacting along with Saki ... and that's fine. It's a standard convention in suspense type movies/tv/anime and I can fogive it to some extent .. but I'd like to see more balance.

As other posters have mentioned, Saki seemed to be more in control in some of the earlier episdoes. The scene where she gave Satorou his mantra back, in a seemingly hopeless situation, made her seem extraordinarily emotionally strong. Not because she didn't cry or seem afraid, but because she worked past it and did what needed to be done anyway.

In the tokyo chase arc, she seems to be relying on others to do everything. She hasn't really helped with the planning or done much with her cantus. I don't think anyone expects her to have more tactical knowledge than Kiromaru or be more bad ass than Shun. We just want her to contribute a little bit more & not just be the heroine who screams in a suspense flick. She can still scream, I'd expect it of her character, I just want her to do something about it afterwards :)

Maybe the director is just being more true to the novel here and it seems off to me because of the previous anime only changes *shrugs*. I know some posters in previous episdoes said a number of good ideas were originally Satorou's in the novel, not Saki's (like the reflective light trick to escape the fiend). As an anime only viewer, though; the disconnect between Saki in that scene and her in the scene with the giant centipede is noticeable.

I have no idea how this is going to end (which I am enjoying quite immensely), but I am somewhat suspiscious that Saki will (somewhat) put things together at the climax & they are exagurrating her helplessness now to make the rebound more impactful. Kind of like they used some narrative exagurration about there being no plan to deal with a fiend ... and then next episode there was a last ditch plan.

If it works out this way, I think it'll be ok in total ... it's just that we're at the downpoint right now, so it seems glaring and frustrating and dissonant (assuming you are an anime only viewer and don't know what happens :heh:).

[kuromitsu]

My favorite pairing (not that I'm your typical shipper in any way, shape, or form...) has been Saki and Satoru since way back when they first got lost in the woods and were being manipulated by Yakomaru to do his dirty work. They're both still alive, but I'm worried that perhaps Satoru may bite the bullet next episode... hope not.
I like them the most, too, but what with them being in love with Shun for most of the story, and then being hung over him like that even in the third part, even if it's for understandable reasons... they're not exactly your typical shipping material, and the anime is not doing anything to help with that. :heh: But in any case, I think they have a great relationship which is quite fascinating in this third part (whether you interpret it as romantic or not), and it's a shame that it doesn't get more attention even in the book, and even less so the anime.

>apotheosis
But that's just it, she's doing stuff here, too. Maybe it's not something as obvious as giving Satoru her power back (but then, now they're not in a situation where she would have the opportunity to do something like that), but just as you said, she's working past her fears and doing what is needed to be done, anyway. Even when Inui died her first thought, over the shock and fear, was diving back to grab the library critter, and she cried only after that. I think the fact that she managed to secure the psycho buster is enough proof of her doing the job. :heh: (Also, consider the differences in her situation back and now. Back then she had friends and family, a home. Now all she has is Satoru whom she may or may not lose, parents who may be already dead, her home has been all but destroyed, and she's burdened by the weight of a great responsibility.)

Sure, she's not doing anything obviously "big" but what could she do? The planning is basically Kiroumaru leading the way and coming up with ideas, since he knows the place and knows the enemy, the rest of the group is just following him. Satoru and Inui are much better at the fighting/physical side of things than her. So all she can do is going along and concentrating on her mission without losing her heart. (By the way, the anime neglected to mention why Satoru didn't go with Saki - again, it's not plot-important and is not difficult to figure out, but it would've been nice to see them acknowledge it and add it to his characterization.)

I guess ultimately this is very subjective (what isn't? :heh: ) and it's not surprising that many people want to see Saki being more visibly active as a main character. But personally, I find her more interesting this way. :heh:

[Tougarashi]

I think its becausehe grew up around Queerats, that he believes he is one. I think Death Feedback happens when he attacks the Queerats. Look at the battle with the Hornet Colony, the Akki only disarmed them then the Robber Fly finished them off based off of Kiromaru's account.


I see, that's why he didn't hurm Inui when Inui made Queerat's sound. If that so, the one who should eliminate him should be Kinoumaru.

[momonae]

IMO the recent episodes have exagurrated her weakness to help the viewer connect with how scary things are. This seems like a deliberate narritive device.


This narrative is, more than anything else, what-if story. It means this is not a narraive of heros/heroines and it's more important that the characters in it are believable than they are unbeliebably heroic. Saki is a boss-to-be. And real bosses often suck. Therefore Saki should be suck. On the other hand, Satoru is a subordinate-to-be, partner-to-be, or partner of the main character (Saki). In reality, real jobs are carried out by subordinates and people other than you. Therefore he has to shine and has to prove that he is not just a foil to Saki.

In the tokyo chase arc, she seems to be relying on others to do everything. She hasn't really helped with the planning or done much with her cantus. I don't think anyone expects her to have more tactical knowledge than Kiromaru or be more bad ass than Shun. We just want her to contribute a little bit more & not just be the heroine who screams in a suspense flick. She can still scream, I'd expect it of her character, I just want her to do something about it afterwards :)

She blew up the giant centipede (or ragworm) first and saved Inui's life. Then Inui burned up the centipede and killed it before it attacked petrified Saki. Saki found and got Psykobuster. So at least she completed her and the party's first mission. She should be credited for freeing and accompanying Kiroumaru to Tokyo, he was indispensable in this mission.

[Repelsteeltju]

But that's just it, she's doing stuff here, too. Maybe it's not something as obvious as giving Satoru her power back (but then, now they're not in a situation where she would have the opportunity to do something like that), but just as you said, she's working past her fears and doing what is needed to be done, anyway. Even when Inui died her first thought, over the shock and fear, was diving back to grab the library critter, and she cried only after that. I think the fact that she managed to secure the psycho buster is enough proof of her doing the job. :heh: I see Saki as a profoundly brave character. So thinking of her in terms of: well at least she'd didn't forget her mission due to fear or what have you. Is a step down from that.

(Also, consider the differences in her situation back and now. Back then she had friends and family, a home. Now all she has is Satoru whom she may or may not lose, parents who may be already dead, her home has been all but destroyed, and she's burdened by the weight of a great responsibility.) That goes for everyone, probably even for Kiroumaru. But we don't use it to justify their inaction because they're not at all portrayed as inactive.


So all she can do is going along and concentrating on her mission without losing her heart.That the complaint isn't it? They could have taken that annoying bald monk guy along instead and all that we'd miss would be the bathing scene and the girlish squeals.

Saki's always been at her best and brightest when her back was against the wall and now her back is against the wall.

This is going to be good, it'd better be.

I guess ultimately this is very subjective (what isn't? :heh: ) and it's not surprising that many people want to see Saki being more visibly active as a main character. But personally, I find her more interesting this way. :heh:Is there a way for a character to be active in fiction without conveying that to the audience? If you where to write a story, let say a serial novel, wherein a tree falls but it's never let on to the reader and doesn't effect the characters or the described environment did the three fall at all? You obviously reap the benefits of having read the novel but those of us who haven't are seeing Saki in a state more faceless than Shun has been in the past few weeks.

This narrative is, more than anything else, what-if story. It means this is not a narraive of heros/heroines and it's more important that the characters in it are believable than they are unbeliebably heroic. Saki is a boss-to-be. And real bosses often suck. Therefore Saki should be suck. On the other hand, Satoru is a subordinate-to-be, partner-to-be, or partner of the main character (Saki). In reality, real jobs are carried out by subordinates and people other than you. Therefore he has to shine and has to prove that he is not just a foil to Saki.

I can't seem to comprehend this. You acknowledge that Saki 'sucks' and is incompetent but you're OK with that because bosses suck?


She blew up the giant centipede (or ragworm) first and saved Inui's life. Then Inui burned up the centipede and killed it before it attacked petrified Saki. Saki found and got Psykobuster. So at least she completed her and the party's first mission. She should be credited for freeing and accompanying Kiroumaru to Tokyo, he was indispensable in this mission.Nice catch. I wasn't quite clear on how much Saki used her cantus in that scene (they used to give us those useful close-ups of Saki reciting her mantra, no more it seems) but how you've put it seems about right. Notwithstanding that Saki did this by closing her eyes and hoping that the beast would just begone.
Following Inui's death all the trials she had to go through to get to the super-anthrax were opening a few doors and a vault, with her cantus I might add. The bald annoying monk guy could have done as much. And lets not forget that it was Satoru who unchained Kirou so it's kinda weird to give her credit for not objecting to a sound course of action. Though I'll give you that much the annoying bald monk guy could not have done that.

[Archon_Wing]

Saki overcame her fears and remained cool-headed throughout the whole ordeal. She saved Satoru on at least one instance. She was smart enough to figure how to undo the binding of Satoru's cantus. She acted bravely and pulled a first rate bluff on Squealer. And tons of other things I forget. She was very pro-active and not passive like she is now.

She was only 12 years old back then. Her 14 years old self was no different. I would have expected a 26 years old Saki to be even more resourceful.


There's one big difference though. She had her friends, even if not in person, the very thought of them makes one stronger. Right now, we have several dead ones, including 2 that have started the apocalypse and the possibly alive one is uncertain too. Meanwhile, the village and most of what she knows has been destroyed.

Given how excessively co-dependent on others this society is, it's very hard to take action on one's own. That's just how their society was designed.

I am quite bothered by Saki's characterization lately. What did Tomiko see in her? She has repeatedly acted like a useless damsel in distress who just never uses her powers. I understand, she isn't particularly powerful, but she almost never does anything. Just a lot of crying and being useless. I loved Saki earlier in this show, so it's disappointing to me that they'd strip her of any use in this story. Maybe the creators thought that was moe or something, I don't know. It's just very annoying to see her do things earlier in the show (Like survive the encounter with the tainted cat), but then seem completely useless here. Granted, she has acted pretty "normal," but she is supposed to be more special and just normal IMO.

Now I am not sure how they plan to conclude this series, but they only have two episodes left. I fear we might run into some awkward pacing issues in the final stretch here (If we haven't already). I also heard from novel readers that a lot of the significance about what the Psycho Buster is got gutted. These sorts of details are what keep the story logical and intelligible. Otherwise it allows us to just poke holes in what's going on. Why is the psycho buster useful against the fiend and a counter to death feedback? This still hasn't been explained at all and I am not sure the TV series will ever justify it to me.

This series might have lost its chance at greatness.

Yea, I suppose there's a lot of swept by the wind situations for the characters where it feels like they are agents of the plot rather than their own selves. Though I might have an excuse.

Imagine being a cold, pragmatic leader who sees that no successor is a viable choice. The older ones are too set in their ways. But you see someone with a will to live and naive enough to believe what you need to tell them. Let's just say that they too aren't really that capable?

Well, sometimes a lie is a good placebo to give someone courage. Even if it's a pretty much minute chance.

Of course, Tomiko could have just been wrong, lol. The humans have been very wrong on like everything as of late. :heh: They are very inflexible and once any unknown factors catch into their elaborate plans of prevention, it's gg.

[apotheosis]

>apotheosis
But that's just it, she's doing stuff here, too. Maybe it's not something as obvious as giving Satoru her power back (but then, now they're not in a situation where she would have the opportunity to do something like that), but just as you said, she's working past her fears and doing what is needed to be done, anyway.

I guess ultimately this is very subjective (what isn't? :heh: ) and it's not surprising that many people want to see Saki being more visibly active as a main character. But personally, I find her more interesting this way. :heh:
I would agree it is subjective & probably depends a lot on how the viewer is identifying with Saki. Is she a damsel in distress they'd want to save? Living proof of humanity's inevitable decline & doom in the narrative? An ordinary girl with the courage to face the terrors of the world? A femme fatale action hero? :D

I still have my hopes for Saki + McGuffin. She did manage to get to it, though the struggle felt more like a defeat than a triumph. That probably also colors my thinking ... I was full of confidence in Shun/Satorou/Saki/etc in the child & teenage arcs. Now I am not at all so sure ..

This narrative is, more than anything else, what-if story. It means this is not a narraive of heros/heroines and it's more important that the characters in it are believable than they are unbeliebably heroic. Saki is a boss-to-be. And real bosses often suck. Therefore Saki should be suck. On the other hand, Satoru is a subordinate-to-be, partner-to-be, or partner of the main character (Saki). In reality, real jobs are carried out by subordinates and people other than you. Therefore he has to shine and has to prove that he is not just a foil to Saki.


Some bosses lead by example. They definitely have to delegate some/most tasks, but taking on difficult tasks and doing them right is one way to inspire people to follow you. It's worked for me before.


She blew up the giant centipede (or ragworm) first and saved Inui's life. Then Inui burned up the centipede and killed it before it attacked petrified Saki. Saki found and got Psykobuster. So at least she completed her and the party's first mission. She should be credited for freeing and accompanying Kiroumaru to Tokyo, he was indispensable in this mission.

I didn't catch that she attacked the centipede either. I rewatched it and I do see the change in Saki's facial expression, like determination ... so it could have been her attack. I suppose I credited the attack to Inui since it was identical in form to the second attack, which was definitely him. Maybe it's made more clear in the novel who attacked? (though the anime has deviated from that before certainly)

[Reckoner]

Yea, I suppose there's a lot of swept by the wind situations for the characters where it feels like they are agents of the plot rather than their own selves. Though I might have an excuse.

Imagine being a cold, pragmatic leader who sees that no successor is a viable choice. The older ones are too set in their ways. But you see someone with a will to live and naive enough to believe what you need to tell them. Let's just say that they too aren't really that capable?

Well, sometimes a lie is a good placebo to give someone courage. Even if it's a pretty much minute chance.

Of course, Tomiko could have just been wrong, lol. The humans have been very wrong on like everything as of late. :heh: They are very inflexible and once any unknown factors catch into their elaborate plans of prevention, it's gg.

Well it might be amusing to consider that the humans really are so incompetent :heh:.

However, the thing is that I truly believed in Tomiko's words when Saki was still a teenager. She truly was proactive in the story, and overcame these emotional moments. She survived these trials and continued to live on with a level head.

That is why her actions in this arc so far have been pretty disappointing to me. I'd expect that since she became an adult, she'd be even more mature and stronger. Instead it almost feels like she has regressed. Granted, I expect she'll do something FINALLY in the next episodes.

[NoemiChan]

What was that so called "weapon"?

This thing is used during that "war" I though it was some kind of "tranquilizer gun" or cannon or something... This only made it more complicated... Do they have to inject it? That means geting closer to the "fiend".... !!!!

[momonae]

I can't seem to comprehend this. You acknowledge that Saki 'sucks' and is incompetent but you're OK with that because bosses suck?
I'm saying that this is not a story, in which, you expect a hero or heroes you cheer for, the said hero save the day and you feel good. And if that happens it's rather a letdown. The boss sucks part is just only my tongue-in-cheek logic to prove that it's OK that she doesn't look competent .


Following Inui's death all the trials she had to go through to get to the super-anthrax were opening a few doors and a vault, with her cantus I might add. The bald annoying monk guy could have done as much. And lets not forget that it was Satoru who unchained Kirou so it's kinda weird to give her credit for not objecting to a sound course of action.
But she did her job nonetheless. If you expect more than that from her, you are expecting a hero or simply wanting some kind of enjoyable action scenes. As for Kiroumaru, she was apparently on the same page with Satoru and implicitly helped him to free Kiroumaru, or she did it herself if he didn't. And never forget the mission was entrusted to her by her mother, so she was supposed to be most influential on the decisions concerning Kiroumaru. I don't think you can discredit her on that.

Though I'll give you that much the annoying bald monk guy could not have done that.
If you mean Hino Koufuu by "bald monk", he is not a monk but a head of craftman guild or technology and science department. He was supposed to be on par with Kaburagi Shisei as far as psychic power is concerned, but his ability was shaped for more technological things. He was not originally so "annoying" or like a macho he was but a rather nerdish person if you ask me.



Some bosses lead by example. They definitely have to delegate some/most tasks, but taking on difficult tasks and doing them right is one way to inspire people to follow you. It's worked for me before.

You might be right about some bosses, but in general.... Are you saying that the bosses who don't lead by example should be got rid of and isn't worth to be a boss?


I didn't catch that she attacked the centipede either. (snipped) Maybe it's made more clear in the novel who attacked?
Yes, I checked.

What was that so called "weapon?"

This thing is used during that "war" I though it was some kind of "tranquilizer gun" or cannon or something... This only made it more complicated... Do they have to inject it? That means geting closer to the "fiend".... !!!!
Do you mean anthrax by "weapon"? If so, it's anthrax spore engineered to be highly toxic and contagious and designed to be inhaled by the victim. I suppose it's a only weapon usable after a thousand years.

[SeijiSensei]

How Anthrax is Weaponized (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1001161,00.html)

"In order to cause disease, at least 8,000 to 10,000 spores need to lodge deep in the lungs, in the tiniest air sacs known as alveoli."

I wonder how much volume 8-10,000 spores consumes. The amount in the Psychobuster looks to be a few cubic centimeters.

[Raghar]

I wonder how much volume 8-10,000 spores consumes. The amount in the Psychobuster looks to be a few cubic centimeters.

Enough to kill few million people.

[NoemiChan]

Do you mean anthrax by "weapon"? If so, it's anthrax spore engineered to be highly toxic and contagious and designed to be inhaled by the victim. I suppose it's a only weapon usable after a thousand years.

I mean the method.. look at it.... it's uncool... they could have made it like a sword, gun or RPG looking... A hairpin/ necklace are for ninjas..:p

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Well, it's arguably already too stylish in its current decorative necklace form. Considering that it's coming out of a lab, you'd expect to see a metal or glass cylinder or sphere, and not much else.

Because military bioweapons come in plain packages. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M114_bomb)

[kuromitsu]

Well, it's arguably already too stylish in its current decorative necklace form. Considering that it's coming out of a lab, you'd expect to see a metal or glass cylinder or sphere, and not much else.

Because military bioweapons come in plain packages. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M114_bomb)
The container looks pretty meh if you ask me, but there's a reason why it looks like that, which the episode neglected to mention. That note wasn't lying next to it just to be ignored... perhaps they'll flash back to Saki reading it in the next episode.

I'm saying that this is not a story, in which, you expect a hero or heroes you cheer for, the said hero save the day and you feel good.
Seriously. On the one hand people are like "I hope Saki is writing her memoirs as a slave for bakenezumi!" and on the other hand "why isn't she more heroic!" :heh: If the 23 episodes so far weren't enough to make it obvious, this isn't exactly your usual adventure story. :heh:

He was supposed to be on par with Kaburagi Shisei as far as psychic power is concerned, but his ability was shaped for more technological things. He was not originally so "annoying" or like a macho he was but a rather nerdish person if you ask me.
And creepy...

[Solace]

The container looks pretty meh if you ask me, but there's a reason why it looks like that, which the episode neglected to mention. That note wasn't lying next to it just to be ignored... perhaps they'll flash back to Saki reading it in the next episode.

It's obviously a flash drive with a complete Anthrax discography. Saki will play it at full blast using the Psychobuster, causing the Queerats and Maria's child to melt into puddles of goo from listening to the gods of metal in hi-fi stereo. Those chops are just too righteous!

:hmm:

Hey, if yodeling can kill martians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MhgnMX73Pw), anything is possible! :heh:

[kuromitsu]

I thought metal only worked against hippies... :heh:

I kind of want to see that. Saki plugs the thing in the little critter's butt, and it turns into a HEAVY METAL MONSTER blasting music and vomiting fire and smoke... (I'm sure Saki has a tiny tank top and hot pants somewhere in her backpack. And then Satoru dies of blood loss due to nosebleed.)

[Archon_Wing]

Dear lord, a mass of posts.

Well it might be amusing to consider that the humans really are so incompetent :heh:.

However, the thing is that I truly believed in Tomiko's words when Saki was still a teenager. She truly was proactive in the story, and overcame these emotional moments. She survived these trials and continued to live on with a level head.

That is why her actions in this arc so far have been pretty disappointing to me. I'd expect that since she became an adult, she'd be even more mature and stronger. Instead it almost feels like she has regressed. Granted, I expect she'll do something FINALLY in the next episodes.

Well, like I've said, I think it's fairly reasonable for Saki to regress because all these events are breaking her. On the other hand, I also agree that a protagonist really needs to make a choice for themselves or the show will just devolve to slasher film levels, and that would not be cool.

Certainly not anything incredibly badass, but clearly she must have found something in all these years of introspection. Does Saki have nothing else to offer but a broken soul and fear? Sure it makes sense, but it's not that satisfying.

That's an interesting observation. And now that I think about it, you're right.

Saki displayed a fair degree of spunk and strength even in the handful of episodes that there were after Shun's death but before Maria ran away. But ever since Maria passed on, Saki has become a bit more passive, and a bit more withdrawn.

It's like losing Maria took the color out of Saki's world, and now the world is so bleak that Saki needs to make an extra effort to push herself forward whereas before it came more naturally.

When you combine the effect that Maria running away had on Saki, along with Saki basically blaming Maria for what's happening now, it's hard to not get the impression of a depressed and jilted lover. :heh:

Lol, you're still at it with the yuri shipping! But yea, you gotta wonder why Saki blames Maria so much for all of this. Maria was just that important to her, and now she's left to chasing a shadow of Shun.


I'm also very much looking forward to the next meeting between Saki and Yakomaru. I hope it'll have a nice climatic feel to it, and that Saki will stand tall in that moment.

It really depends on what Kiromaru is up to.

Can't you guys post better?

No.

[creb]

Granted, I expect she'll do something FINALLY in the next episodes.

I'm still holding out for an ending where she loses and everything goes up in flames (her blaming Maria as the narrator gives me some slim hope), and humanity becomes lobotomized and takes up a role in the rat hegemony that rats had in human society, but it's far more likely at this point that if Maria's child isn't a fiend, and really does self-identify as a rat, and that's why she/he (sorry, everyone calls it a he, but the thing looks like a girl, so confusing), is able to kill humans with impunity, then Saki is going to try (and likely succeed) to connect with that child at some level, to make it realize those silly humans she/he has been killing aren't just insects under the metaphysical magnifying lens.

Though, with 2? 3? episodes left, I can't see any way this actually concludes in a satisfactory way on the whole human/rat/corner humans have put themselves into in response to their cantus situation, and I kind of suspect it's all going to largely be inconclusive on that front, and end on a more personal level of simple closure for Saki and her ties to Maria's child. And, her narration blaming Maria will come across as overly dramatic and largely inconsequential to the actual conclusion of this story.

I'd certainly love to be proven wrong, because I really enjoyed this show up until this arc (and do enjoy most elements of this arc, other than Saki and the knowledge that it has to somehow conclude in 2-3 more episodes). :heh:

[kuromitsu]

OK, someone please explain to me how and where did Saki ever blame Maria for what's happening now?

Because if you mean that one sentence where she said "if she hadn't been born that tragedy wouldn't have happened" it's not blaming Maria, it's stating a fact. "I had a best friend, I loved her dearly. She almost died when she was born. Ironically, if she had died, that tragedy wouldn't have happened."

and that's why she/he (sorry, everyone calls it a he, but the thing looks like a girl, so confusing),
It's a he. He looks like a girl because omg Maria.

[Tougarashi]

Saki is going to try (and likely succeed) to connect with that child at some level, to make it realize those silly humans she/he has been killing aren't just insects under the metaphysical magnifying lens.


I don't think that child can even communicate with humans. To make him understand what really happening is nearly impossible.

What interested me is that what Saki will do if everthing falling apart or everything is over. Will she be the one who will manage the community ? What is her new world ? , since the story title is "From the new world".

[creb]

I don't think that child can even communicate with humans. To make him understand what really happening is nearly impossible.

What interested me is that what Saki will do if everthing falling apart or everything is over. Will she be the one who will manage the community ? What is her new world ? , since the story title is "From the new world".

The title only implies the one thing we shouldn't expect from the ending is the resumption of the status quo.

Because it's Saki, and she's the obvious protagonist, the safe money is on some semblance of peace between the rats and humans, with a new relationship that provides the rats with a more equal partnership.

I'm just really hoping they don't go the safe route. :D

https://bcrm5q.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pfXKvnM6G-6YC0AUFlnQVhAf783jZDo25SIGxtRK4Eg9k91Qj30e5RGcd8F-0iT41EbwwaCDwcCbxcbSIV5dDJ-5NgCFwCiME/ending.png?psid=1

[kuromitsu]

^
Saki is connected by the Red String of Fate to a fat vampire with a silly hat, with whom she has an S/M relationship...? :heh:

(Sorry, I had to :heh: )

[momonae]

Dear lord, a mass of posts.
Well, like I've said, I think it's fairly reasonable for Saki to regress because all these events are breaking her. On the other hand, I also agree that a protagonist really needs to make a choice for themselves or the show will just devolve to slasher film levels, and that would not be cool.


I disagree. After all, she did what she had to do and she wasn't spent. But come to think of it, maybe the anime emphasized Saki's distress.


Certainly not anything incredibly badass, but clearly she must have found something in all these years of introspection. Does Saki have nothing else to offer but a broken soul and fear? Sure it makes sense, but it's not that satisfying.


And I guess the emphasis might be intentionally done by the anime. I had kind of guessed Saki's remembering of and reunion with Shun was planned to be dramatic one. But I was actually impressed by the scene of a long shot of Saki and co. when they were children, which she really cared and miss. It seems to me the childhood arc finally paid off. At least it succeeded in making me empathize with her situation.


https://bcrm5q.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pfXKvnM6G-6YC0AUFlnQVhAf783jZDo25SIGxtRK4Eg9k91Qj30e5RGcd8F-0iT41EbwwaCDwcCbxcbSIV5dDJ-5NgCFwCiME/ending.png?psid=1

Saki tied to Squealer by a red string?
Maybe you are right. They might be romantically connected by destiny. They often bumped into each other and detined to bump into each other again. Sorry I couldn't help commenting this one.

[NoemiChan]

Saki tied to Squealer by a red string?
Maybe you are right. They might be romantically connected by destiny. They often bumped into each other and detined to bump into each other again. Sorry I couldn't help commenting this one.

*throws up

Sorry... can't help it...

Anyway.. I'm glad to see Shun.. made me cry seeing Saki cry after seeing Shun...

[Dawnstorm]

I wonder, did the tsuchigumo clan ("tarantula") come from Tokyo originally?

[momonae]

I wonder, did the tsuchigumo clan ("tarantula") come from Tokyo originally?
Perhaps not. Tsuchigumo (土蜘蛛) means ground/soil spider and it's not a specific name of a insect species or insect group like other colonies' name are but it is a generic name for spiders which make their nest/trap in soil if you make sense of the name. Another and popular old usage of the term is for ancient Japanese people who were not under Yamato government's control, perhaps this sense is the primary reason of the name of the colony. It perhaps simply indicates their "foreigness" and the fact they are not controlled by the village or the humans and came from outside Japan.

[Guido]

Uff! Heavy dialogue I got in this episode.

The notion is that the fiend might actually not be a fiend, but a feral child who did not have his Cantus tampered with due that the Queerats raised him.

Now, since the demise of the Giant Hornet's colony there's been a lot of speculation on Kiroumaru. How can we be sure for Saki to trust him, since Inui put forth on light with theories that Kiroumaru has not properly explained his actions for going with them to Tokyo again, in spite that his first expedition to Tokyo turned quite disastrous?

Finally, I will be honest to comment that Shun's reappearance before Saki did not play enough of an impact to call the closing of this episode memorable or mind-blowing.

The enigma is whether Saki, after recalling her memories about Shun back, has given momentary life to Shun's memory? or is he just an illusion or a construct of her thoughts?

[Triple_R]

Saki tied to Squealer by a red string?
Maybe you are right. They might be romantically connected by destiny. They often bumped into each other and detined to bump into each other again. Sorry I couldn't help commenting this one.




"Tonight, the great Robber Fly Supreme Commander makes his greatest conquest yet!" Yakomaru proudly declares before disrobing.

"Are you ready for the little Squealer?" he asks Saki, while grinning evilly and raising an eyebrow.

And thus peace between human and queerat would be gained nine months later by the birth of a half-breed Prince that would lead both species forward in a spirit of harmony. ;)

[NoemiChan]

"Tonight, the great Robber Fly Supreme Commander makes his greatest conquest yet!" Yakomaru proudly declares before disrobing.

"Are you ready for the little Squealer?" he asks Saki, while grinning evilly and raising an eyebrow.

And thus peace between human and queerat would be gained nine months later by the birth of a half-breed Prince that would lead both species forward in a spirit of harmony. ;)

I pity the child more than Mamoru's and Maria's.....

[kuromitsu]

"Tonight, the great Robber Fly Supreme Commander makes his greatest conquest yet!" Yakomaru proudly declares before disrobing.

"Are you ready for the little Squealer?" he asks Saki, while grinning evilly and raising an eyebrow.

And thus peace between human and queerat would be gained nine months later by the birth of a half-breed Prince that would lead both species forward in a spirit of harmony. ;)
"Little Squealer" no no no no nooo :upset: This puts the whole "little pet" thing into a whole new dimension x___x) XDDDD