View Full Version : [Anime] Episode 31 : Sin
The screen captures are up at http://wgalland.hp.infoseek.co.jp
The 5-way battle has ended in only one possibility (come on... we already knew that)
Looks like two former comrades have met each other.
And lastly, supposedly there's a scene to rival the goriness of the first episode?
But from 2 of the last 9 screenies, it seems like a new Sin would be revealed (eh the title of the episode is Sin right?)
Scrumhalf
2004-05-08, 06:49
Fabulous stuff, Yebyosh.
Looks like the kid is not himself lately in that ep screenshots. Maybe people have confirmed right that he was hiding something ;)
ChainLegacy
2004-05-08, 06:50
Those screenshots look awesome. This episode is most likely going to be filled with action and hopefully it will also reveal some more secrets.
I also look forward to seeing more of the Mad Bomber. He is a great character that interested me the second I saw him.
Finally, I can't wait to learn what happens to the kid and what Sin he becomes.
Ooh great show this is gonna be. As always thank you for the episode screenshots YebYosh.
XtlDragon
2004-05-08, 07:22
The preview for the episode after this one is online:
www.mbs.co.jp/hagaren/index2.html
**It looks very spoiler ful though!**
Fighter Volk
2004-05-08, 07:33
Fabulous stuff, Yebyosh.
Looks like the kid is not himself lately in that ep screenshots. Maybe people have confirmed right that he was hiding something ;)
From now on, I'm only sticking to my precious wgalland screenshots because they really don't give away a lot, just give us an idea of what the episode will be like. Anyway, replying to the spoiler above...
I think it might be Envy that Izumi's choking. Wasn't there a scene with Envy and Izumi on the island in the preview? I'd be really sad if the Innocent Child got corrupted so easily, because I really like him... and I can't wait to see the Mad Bomber ~ Archer conversation :)
I'm waiting for Kimberly to meet Scar, personally. Scar said his brother was killed by a State Alchemist. And it was bad enough that he took a vow to kill them all. I wonder which one it was... =D
Freakman
2004-05-08, 10:24
Got to see the episode, but had less action than i expected :p
But
If i got it right, the Innocent Child is Wrath (that's what i think Sloth says).
And there are more revelations as to how Homonculus are born.
And next episode will be pretty intense i think :D
Screenshots can also be found here (http://www.snow-mousse.com/) and here (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/hanepen/).
And like the last two weeks.. the MAJOR spoilers. :p
Screenshots 01 (http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/omchan/fma/fma_31-s01.jpg)
Screenshots 02 (http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/omchan/fma/fma_31-s02.jpg)
Screenshots 03 (http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/omchan/fma/fma_31-s03.jpg)
Screenshots 04 (http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/omchan/fma/fma_31-s04.jpg)
Screenshots 05 (http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/omchan/fma/fma_31-s05.jpg)
Screenshots 06 (http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/omchan/fma/fma_31-s06.jpg)
Screenshots 07 (http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/omchan/fma/fma_31-s07.jpg)
Screenshots 08 (http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/omchan/fma/fma_31-s08.jpg)
Screenshots 09 (http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/omchan/fma/fma_31-s09.jpg)
Screenshots 10 (http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/omchan/fma/fma_31-s10.jpg)
*dies from the number of screenshots*
This episode looks awesome.
Good episode! I wish my Japanese were stronger...
And while Armstrong and Izumi are awesome fighters, the battle was much less dramatic than it could have been.
So we have a study in how homunculi are born. Please correct any errors or misunderstandings of mine.
First off, the kid is Wrath, and Envy and Sloth know this. Envy didn't just give him the name him/herself, so presumably the "father" did. And the kid does become pretty wrathful. Given how many episodes are left, I don't think it likely that there's an extra homunculus hiding in the woodwork somewhere who no one's interested in talking about. I'd bet cash that the manga's Wrath is now Pride and that there are only seven sins and seven homunculi and we know who all of them are.
Second: we have a process for homunculus creation. A failed human transmutation is performed. Then, the body is taken by the Truth. Afterwards, the creature created develops into a full homunculus and appears to age at the same rate as a human would. It is at this point that what would become Wrath was interrupted in its usual development by Ed's revival of his brother. But the process continues, and eventually another act as yet unexplained releases the creature into the physical world. This is presumably done by the "father."
Now we have a good explanation of how homunculi can simultaneously be children of their "father" and the creations of someone completely different: eg, Sloth by Ed and Al, Wrath by Izumi.
What I don't understand: the freaks created by human transmutation take human-looking bodies when they enter the Truth. But Izumi consciously took her child there to be disposed of. Ed never did the same with his mother; the body simply vanished. How?
Fighter Volk
2004-05-08, 15:14
Good episode! I wish my Japanese were stronger...
And while Armstrong and Izumi are awesome fighters, the battle was much less dramatic than it could have been.
So we have a study in how homunculi are born. Please correct any errors or misunderstandings of mine.
First off, the kid is Wrath, and Envy and Sloth know this. Envy didn't just give him the name him/herself, so presumably the "father" did. And the kid does become pretty wrathful. Given how many episodes are left, I don't think it likely that there's an extra homunculus hiding in the woodwork somewhere who no one's interested in talking about. I'd bet cash that the manga's Wrath is now Pride and that there are only seven sins and seven homunculi and we know who all of them are.
Second: we have a process for homunculus creation. A failed human transmutation is performed. Then, the body is taken by the Truth. Afterwards, the creature created develops into a full homunculus and appears to age at the same rate as a human would. It is at this point that what would become Wrath was interrupted in its usual development by Ed's revival of his brother. But the process continues, and eventually another act as yet unexplained releases the creature into the physical world. This is presumably done by the "father."
Now we have a good explanation of how homunculi can simultaneously be children of their "father" and the creations of someone completely different: eg, Sloth by Ed and Al, Wrath by Izumi.
What I don't understand: the freaks created by human transmutation take human-looking bodies when they enter the Truth. But Izumi consciously took her child there to be disposed of. Ed never did the same with his mother; the body simply vanished. How?
Didn't they bury the body?
Didn't they bury the body?
Not sure. I had presumed so, but supposedly a few episodes ago Ed said that it had disappeared. I read that somewhere on the boards. I'm not sure if it was true; I watched the particular episode (29, I think) raw and had a hard time following some of the narration.
Anyway, I can't explain the presumed chronology error of Sloth being created prior to the death of Ed and Al's mother (since she started the Ishbal War), but it seems obvious that she is derived from Tricia's body, just like the boy is from Izumi's child. That body must have gotten to the Truth somehow...
Good episode! I wish my Japanese were stronger...
And while Armstrong and Izumi are awesome fighters, the battle was much less dramatic than it could have been.
So we have a study in how homunculi are born. Please correct any errors or misunderstandings of mine.
First off, the kid is Wrath, and Envy and Sloth know this. Envy didn't just give him the name him/herself, so presumably the "father" did. And the kid does become pretty wrathful. Given how many episodes are left, I don't think it likely that there's an extra homunculus hiding in the woodwork somewhere who no one's interested in talking about. I'd bet cash that the manga's Wrath is now Pride and that there are only seven sins and seven homunculi and we know who all of them are.
Second: we have a process for homunculus creation. A failed human transmutation is performed. Then, the body is taken by the Truth. Afterwards, the creature created develops into a full homunculus and appears to age at the same rate as a human would. It is at this point that what would become Wrath was interrupted in its usual development by Ed's revival of his brother. But the process continues, and eventually another act as yet unexplained releases the creature into the physical world. This is presumably done by the "father."
Now we have a good explanation of how homunculi can simultaneously be children of their "father" and the creations of someone completely different: eg, Sloth by Ed and Al, Wrath by Izumi.
What I don't understand: the freaks created by human transmutation take human-looking bodies when they enter the Truth. But Izumi consciously took her child there to be disposed of. Ed never did the same with his mother; the body simply vanished. How?
The only problem with your theory (and it's VERY good) is that we have to remember Izumi did her transmutation first. She was already coughing blood up before she met the Elrics. Now, granted, if those events happened exactly at the same time, I could see that. (the reason I speculate this is because Izumi doesn't show up the next day, it's some unspecified amount of time after). I love your thoughts. Well done.
Technovia_EX
2004-05-08, 23:20
I just saw the raw, and it confused me even more :) . It was a good confusion , though.
I don't get this one thing... When a homunculus is born, is it neutral? It has no idea of good and evil and really is innocent? When Envy gave the kid the fake stones, he turned evil... Why is that? Is there some connection between the stones and homunculi? The stones enhance alchemists' power and corrupt homunculi... Interesting...
Just finished watching the raw. Good episode with some great moments.
I really enjoy the scene directions and coreography in this series. Memorable moments from this episode include the Fuhrer jumping past Ed recapturing the kid, Greed's "reunion" with Envy & Sloth and Al's confrontation with the kid. I also liked how the animators paid attention to details. Note Greed's hands while he fights Envy.
Although I'm generally pleased with most of the manga to anime changes due to the manga still running, I couldn't help but feel a little disappointed with the revelations from this episode. Since the kid seems to be Wrath now, chances for my favourite badass manga scene to appear have gone down the drain (the scene involving manga Wraths revelation). :( <sniff> Couldn't they have made the kid to be Pride? Would have been somehow more fitting concerning Al's hubris when he tried to resurrect his mother. Nevertheless good episode. FMA keeps going strong and there's still about 20 episodes left. :D
So i guess furher isnt wrath. Man reading this forum and watching the anime makes me confused
So i guess furher isnt wrath. Man reading this forum and watching the anime makes me confused
What's to get confused over? The anime has deviated from the manga so there would be differences.
Having watched the episode now, I think I can pretty much confirm the following
Archer offered Kimberly a deal. What is Archer playing at?
Archer either is a real good actor or he truly knows nothing of the Homunculi gang.
Greed of course is "The Ultimate Shield". Envy is "The Ultimate...." umm just "Monster" will do, no need to bother with "The Ultimate".
Envy and Greed are at least 130 years old since they refer to each other. Envy was the one who imprisoned Greed and supposedly can do so again if he finds the skull. Gluttony is supposed to be at least 130 years old as well. I still cannot figure out what they are talking about Lust, will try to do so later.
The Sins name themselves. They embody the Sins. So 7 there are.
The Kid is Wrath.
sarcasteak
2004-05-10, 05:38
Yay...
The kid certainly was Wrathful after he ate those yummy PS stones. What nice eyes he got back there. Truthfully, I didn't think the manga's "Wrath" was that appropriate; sure he was vindictive during the "punishment" but that's about it. This may sound blasphemous to manga readers...but no matter what his name is, as long as 'that scene' will still be in the anime, does it really matter whether he is named "Wrath" or not?
It is now confirmed that Sloth's ability is that her body can morph into water. That is fine and consistent with all the other Homonculus' abilities of transmuting parts of their bodies, but I particularly disliked (and even cringed at) the big whirlpool she created that knock Greed's gang silly. She was consistent with the trend when she drowned the mercenary with her arm that turned into water and glided on the lake with her body, but that whirlpool seemed way overpowered even if she turned her whole body into water. And how and when the hell did she get to the island so fast? Wasn't she in Central just yesterday (literally)? Envy never phoned her in, either, did he? I'm pretty sure there wasn't a body of water the entire way...
Overall I am not pleased with this character.
Also...Envy talkin' shit to Greed like that?! What the hell?! I liked the manga version more when Greed with his badass and condescending attitude was insulting Envy as an inferior ugly-ass and all the poor jealous fella could do was making mean glares back at Greed. So what's this? Envy was the one who trapped Greed? Greed afraid of Envy? He and his whole gang had to run away at the sight of two Homonculus, one with a waaaay overpowered ability and one without an actual fighting ability?
Good job. They just utterly butchered the pimp image of Greed... >__<
HK anime seeker
2004-05-10, 09:59
Yay...
The kid certainly was Wrathful after he ate those yummy PS stones. What nice eyes he got back there. Truthfully, I didn't think the manga's "Wrath" was that appropriate; sure he was vindictive during the "punishment" but that's about it. This may sound blasphemous to manga readers...but no matter what his name is, as long as 'that scene' will still be in the anime, does it really matter whether he is named "Wrath" or not?
It is now confirmed that Sloth's ability is that her body can morph into water. That is fine and consistent with all the other Homonculus' abilities of transmuting parts of their bodies, but I particularly disliked (and even cringed at) the big whirlpool she created that knock Greed's gang silly. She was consistent with the trend when she drowned the mercenary with her arm that turned into water and glided on the lake with her body, but that whirlpool seemed way overpowered even if she turned her whole body into water. And how and when the hell did she get to the island so fast? Wasn't she in Central just yesterday (literally)? Envy never phoned her in, either, did he? I'm pretty sure there wasn't a body of water the entire way...
Overall I am not pleased with this character.
Also...Envy talkin' shit to Greed like that?! What the hell?! I liked the manga version more when Greed with his badass and condescending attitude was insulting Envy as an inferior ugly-ass and all the poor jealous fella could do was making mean glares back at Greed. So what's this? Envy was the one who trapped Greed? Greed afraid of Envy? He and his whole gang had to run away at the sight of two Homonculus, one with a waaaay overpowered ability and one without an actual fighting ability?
Good job. They just utterly butchered the pimp image of Greed... >__<
How did greed get sealed?
XtlDragon
2004-05-10, 10:07
I'm getting Sonchou's release, and will get Keep&ANBU's when they release it, for the collection. Because i can't wait to see the new episode.
Well looks like we have conformation on how homos are created
and it seems pretty much like all HT ends up making some deformed fucked up creature, just look at the baby, and somehow they eventualy come out okay and looking normal. Maybe mom was the same 0.o
Pardon the randomnes of this.... So envy says there is in fact 7 sins now, and it seems Envy is older than sloth and lust. It seems like lust isnt the main bad sin, maybe she even works under envy 0.o And the limbs are Ed's! Thats interesting, but just how did Izumi see the gate the second time and not lose any more flesh? Was the baby enough? Just what the hell did she do to see it the second time anyways? Blah, its getting weird, it seems as if the sins arent even all working together
I'm getting Sonchou's release, and will get Keep&ANBU's when they release it, for the collection. Because i can't wait to see the new episode.
yeah that's what I'm gonna do too, first wanted to wait for Keep/ANBU but I can't hehe :D
Yay...
The kid certainly was Wrathful after he ate those yummy PS stones. What nice eyes he got back there. Truthfully, I didn't think the manga's "Wrath" was that appropriate; sure he was vindictive during the "punishment" but that's about it. This may sound blasphemous to manga readers...but no matter what his name is, as long as 'that scene' will still be in the anime, does it really matter whether he is named "Wrath" or not?
Also...Envy talkin' shit to Greed like that?! What the hell?! I liked the manga version more when Greed with his badass and condescending attitude was insulting Envy as an inferior ugly-ass and all the poor jealous fella could do was making mean glares back at Greed. So what's this? Envy was the one who trapped Greed? Greed afraid of Envy? He and his whole gang had to run away at the sight of two Homonculus, one with a waaaay overpowered ability and one without an actual fighting ability?
Good job. They just utterly butchered the pimp image of Greed... >__<
You're right, I mainly want to see the scene in question animated and if they manage to keep it in, then it doesn't really matter which sin he is when he does his thing (not much choices left anyway). But it struck me as odd that they would go out of their way to recast someone else as Wrath and still keep the person in question a homunculus. But let's wait and see.
Yes, Greed needs to regain his pimp status. At least they've added Kimbley, who's a cool addition to the cast.
Sigh, Incredible...
I really liked this series and I still do but god WHY do morons deviate from the manga? A good mangaka would make the story nice and perfect compared to the anime writers version. Trigun, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Love Hina, Kenshin's 3rd season etc. Instead of making their own crap they should have fucking waited a bit before starting the anime so they won't catch up to the manga that fast and I bet it would have been 10x better.
Now I have to go find the manga and read it because I want to know what fucking REALLY happened. Great. Fucking great.
Lost World
2004-05-10, 12:30
Instead of making their own crap they should have fucking waited a bit before starting the anime so they won't catch up to the manga that fast and I bet it would have been 10x better.
.
Maybe, but manga and anime have a limited shelf life in Japan. You don't create anime from manga that is over and done with. You create it from hot properties that are running now. There are two ways to go about it though, either stall, add filler and keep the pace slow (Naruto) or follow the manga up till a point and then make your own story (FMA). Those are really the only options.
threepac3
2004-05-10, 12:32
Well looks like we have conformation on how homos are created
and it seems pretty much like all HT ends up making some deformed fucked up creature, just look at the baby, and somehow they eventualy come out okay and looking normal. Maybe mom was the same 0.o
Pardon the randomnes of this.... So envy says there is in fact 7 sins now, and it seems Envy is older than sloth and lust. It seems like lust isnt the main bad sin, maybe she even works under envy 0.o And the limbs are Ed's! Thats interesting, but just how did Izumi see the gate the second time and not lose any more flesh? Was the baby enough? Just what the hell did she do to see it the second time anyways? Blah, its getting weird, it seems as if the sins arent even all working together
Firstly:
I don't think the baby was created deformed by alchimey, more like it was born that way.
Secondly:
She probably realized that the baby would become a monster when she used alchemy on it, so she sacrafised it to the "gate" to prevnet that.
Firstly:
I don't think the baby was created deformed by alchimey, more like it was born that way.
Secondly:
She probably realized that the baby would become a monster when she used alchemy on it, so she sacrafised it to the "gate" to prevnet that.
I dont know, when she looked at it after the HT was finished she seemed shocked when she saw what it looked like, not just happy that it was alive :/
but what about equal trade, if she sent somthing across shouldent somthing have come back?
tektonik
2004-05-10, 15:22
but what about equal trade, if she sent somthing across shouldent somthing have come back?
uhhhh something did come back ;)
uhhhh something did come back ;)
rofl I ment right away, but I guess it makes sense :heh:
Since Sonchou was out I got to see the episode. :) Some thoughts...
Okay, so Izumi created Wrath (since we now have a name for this kid). But what I don't understand is whether Ed created a homonculous or not. Of course the quick answer would be to say that it was Sloth. But we can't say that because Juliet Douglas (as Sloth's alias is) started the war in Ishbal, right? Which took place two years after the real man died, so it had to have been Sloth...so maybe Ed didn't create anyone, but rather helped Wrath out? It's very confusing...at least we know where Wrath comes from.
Joe Dalton
2004-05-10, 16:07
Sigh, Incredible...
I really liked this series and I still do but god WHY do morons deviate from the manga? A good mangaka would make the story nice and perfect compared to the anime writers version. Trigun, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Love Hina, Kenshin's 3rd season etc. Instead of making their own crap they should have fucking waited a bit before starting the anime so they won't catch up to the manga that fast and I bet it would have been 10x better.
Now I have to go find the manga and read it because I want to know what fucking REALLY happened. Great. Fucking great.
Ugh there was a flame here... instead just so you know... FLAME!!! and ill leave it at that
I wasnt a big fan of the body transmutation... for the sonchou release
In any case this ep was great... I am glad that we are finaly getting some answers (unfortunatly also new questions) and am as always looking forward 2 next week :)
rorosama
2004-05-10, 16:14
Very informative episode. It does seem envy is the main bad homo now. :) I thought greed was a super badass but envy punked his ass. I think envy is the weakest most annoying homo. Seems lust is slowly fading out the main badguy limelight.
sarcasteak
2004-05-10, 16:33
How did greed get sealed?
That's what I'd like to know. Yebyosh said that Envy sealed Greed (the two probably mentioned this during their conversation), and since I find him credible when it comes to Japanese comprehension, I'm going to assume that's what happened.
Pardon the randomnes of this.... So envy says there is in fact 7 sins now, and it seems Envy is older than sloth and lust. It seems like lust isnt the main bad sin, maybe she even works under envy 0.o
I don't like this development, either. In an alternative universe, Greed only respected Lust because of their abilities, and Envy is the one everyone punks around...which is consistent with his name. But now Envy is the boss and ring leader? Why the hell should he be envious, then?!
But what I don't understand is whether Ed created a homonculous or not. Of course the quick answer would be to say that it was Sloth. But we can't say that because Juliet Douglas (as Sloth's alias is) started the war in Ishbal, right? Which took place two years after the real man died, so it had to have been Sloth...so maybe Ed didn't create anyone, but rather helped Wrath out? It's very confusing...at least we know where Wrath comes from.
I don't really care about that whole chronology deal. Envy said Sloth was the youngest of them all (before Wrath showed up), but we don't know what exactly "youngest" means. So for all we know, Juliet Douglas could've been the actual human culprit who started the Ishbal War and afterwards Sloth came by and took her persona.
Yay...
The kid certainly was Wrathful after he ate those yummy PS stones. What nice eyes he got back there. Truthfully, I didn't think the manga's "Wrath" was that appropriate; sure he was vindictive during the "punishment" but that's about it. This may sound blasphemous to manga readers...but no matter what his name is, as long as 'that scene' will still be in the anime, does it really matter whether he is named "Wrath" or not?
Agreed, if he turns up with anything less than the full quota of swords I will be extremely p***ed off...
It is now confirmed that Sloth's ability is that her body can morph into water. That is fine and consistent with all the other Homonculus' abilities of transmuting parts of their bodies, but I particularly disliked (and even cringed at) the big whirlpool she created that knock Greed's gang silly. She was consistent with the trend when she drowned the mercenary with her arm that turned into water and glided on the lake with her body, but that whirlpool seemed way overpowered even if she turned her whole body into water. And how and when the hell did she get to the island so fast? Wasn't she in Central just yesterday (literally)? Envy never phoned her in, either, did he? I'm pretty sure there wasn't a body of water the entire way...
Overall I am not pleased with this character.
When I first saw Sloth doing her surfing I was a little surprised, something didn't seem right there. :twitch: Then she's there in her business suit. Does make you realise just how crazy FMA is ... :heh:
Also...Envy talkin' shit to Greed like that?! What the hell?! I liked the manga version more when Greed with his badass and condescending attitude was insulting Envy as an inferior ugly-ass and all the poor jealous fella could do was making mean glares back at Greed. So what's this? Envy was the one who trapped Greed? Greed afraid of Envy? He and his whole gang had to run away at the sight of two Homonculus, one with a waaaay overpowered ability and one without an actual fighting ability?
Good job. They just utterly butchered the pimp image of Greed... >__<
Looks like Envy is the main villain of the 7, 'it' is certainly becoming nastier at each turn...and Ed still doesn't know about Hughes. I'm hoping this Greed/Envy plot doesn't interfere with 'he who shall not be named' doing his sword thing...
I really enjoyed this episode, the revelations didn't disapoint. I think Wrath is going to be tough baddie to beat. I suspect when we see why he's called Wrath it'll be spectacular. I'm glad Izumi didn't die, I was really fearing that would happen after the preview last week...
One last thing, what the hell is Archer up to?
Sonhex
tiramiisu
2004-05-10, 19:42
I don't like this development, either. In an alternative universe, Greed only respected Lust because of their abilities, and Envy is the one everyone punks around...which is consistent with his name. But now Envy is the boss and ring leader? Why the hell should he be envious, then!?
well, people tend to be mean when they're jealous of other people.
Also, I think even though it appears that Envy's being the ultimate manipulator, I think "you know who" might actually be the leader of them, but that's just me and my very vague speculation.
Komataguri
2004-05-10, 19:44
This is a super A+ grade episode! *big thumbs up*
I think the scene where envy punked Greed was fricken hillarious. And I do agree that the more answers that are given, the more questions they spawn.
Lavender
2004-05-10, 20:08
This ep was very informative, and many of us can already conclude lots of answers from this ep~Such as the kid being Wrath, Homo's creation, etc.
But here's a thought nobody mentioned yet and I think it is quite significant:We see for the second time that Envy hates someone, he usually calls him "that bastard", and we can pretti much assume that person is Ed's father. So, could Ed's father be the one that did a HT and in turn created Envy? It would seem logical considering that Hoheimn(sp?^^") also studied HT. If this is true, who could it be that he tried to revive, and does this have anything to do with him leaving his family and kids and never goin bac??
Give me your thoughts plz^^~
and last but not least....LOVE FMA>o<
Sigh, Incredible...
I really liked this series and I still do but god WHY do morons deviate from the manga? A good mangaka would make the story nice and perfect compared to the anime writers version. Trigun, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Love Hina, Kenshin's 3rd season etc. Instead of making their own crap they should have fucking waited a bit before starting the anime so they won't catch up to the manga that fast and I bet it would have been 10x better.
Now I have to go find the manga and read it because I want to know what fucking REALLY happened. Great. Fucking great.
I just want to add that the mangaka plans to have FMA running for 20+ years. There is NO WAY anyone would wait 20 years to start on an anime. And no way most of the readership will stay way into their thirties and fourties.
Maybe, but manga and anime have a limited shelf life in Japan. You don't create anime from manga that is over and done with. You create it from hot properties that are running now. There are two ways to go about it though, either stall, add filler and keep the pace slow (Naruto) or follow the manga up till a point and then make your own story (FMA). Those are really the only options.
Look at animes like One Piece,Naruto,etc. The anime creators actually waited a bit before starting the anime and create some filler episodes here and there and a filler arc if need be BUT still stick to the main story that was in the manga.
The ones that try and cash in the money too fast and start the series very early like FMA are forced to go and make their own story, but of course the story is NEVER as good as the original manga one. Pretty soon you will start seeing plot holes and things that generally don't make sense. People have already said the whole thing about Envy being the youngest yet now Wrath seems to be.
Joe Dalton
2004-05-10, 20:48
phaint... do you have some inner desire 2 get flamed?
Good episode, I knew that eating PS had something to do with the Homos, and we all pretty much knew those limbs were Ed's and Wrath was Izumi's kid. Good to see my theory wasn't crap
tektonik
2004-05-10, 22:12
The ones that try and cash in the money too fast and start the series very early like FMA are forced to go and make their own story, but of course the story is NEVER as good as the original manga one. Pretty soon you will start seeing plot holes and things that generally don't make sense. People have already said the whole thing about Envy being the youngest yet now Wrath seems to be.
So the manga is immune to having plot holes? The story in the anime is fine and as long as they explain things as they have been doing I have no problems with it.
These statements somehow just come across to me as just simply wrong in some way......:hmm:
Well looks like we have conformation on how homos are created
Good episode, I knew that eating PS had something to do with the Homos, and we all pretty much knew those limbs were Ed's and Wrath was Izumi's kid. Good to see my theory wasn't crap
-|(aGe-BuNsHiN-
2004-05-10, 22:41
Now now Yebyosh lets not get side tracked to gay fetish over here =)
Well I thought this episode was very nice and for those of you manga readers who complain that the anime is not as good as the manga here is the way to look at it:
We did NOT watch the manga so we don't care how much better it is because in my opinion, its good enough as it is right now. But I do know how you are feeling as I am a Naruto manga reader and I feel that the manga was better. Never the less, please have more respect towards the anime. Thank you.
PS: If my post was completely irrelevant to what you were discussing please ignore me as I did not have the time to read through all the posts. Ja nei
FlyByNite
2004-05-10, 22:52
So if Homunculus are made when someone attempts human transmutation and then sacrifices the failed human back to the gate
and if Wrath Is actually Izumi's child who grew up and then acquired Ed's arm and leg and escaped
Then Does Sloth = Ed & Al's Mom? Same voice as their mom.
tiramiisu
2004-05-10, 22:52
I actually think the anime is better, it developes the characters more deeply and emotionally, even if the events are starting to differ from the manga, the stuff in the anime probably flows better as an anime. Just because the anime isn't exactly being faithful to the manga, it shouldn't be biased as crappy.
I just want to add that the mangaka plans to have FMA running for 20+ years. There is NO WAY anyone would wait 20 years to start on an anime. And no way most of the readership will stay way into their thirties and fourties.
Actually, I have been corrected on this, the manga is only supposed to go for 7 years.
These statements somehow just come across to me as just simply wrong in some way
I'm glad that im not the only one who was upset by this decided use of "homo". Also the use of HT. Seriously people, stop being lazy and making up things. Just at least try to spell it out, even if you get it wrong. And why dont you just call them "the sins". There are no homunculus that arent sins (yet).
Anime vs manga is another thread...
Lost World
2004-05-11, 00:10
Look at animes like One Piece,Naruto,etc. The anime creators actually waited a bit before starting the anime and create some filler episodes here and there and a filler arc if need be BUT still stick to the main story that was in the manga.
.
Naruto and One Piece were given an unlimited number of episodes. Full Metal Alchemist (not nearly as popular) was given 52. They have to tell a complete story. What else would you like them to do? Stick to the manga and not have an ending?
About Juliet and Ishbal
Who says Envy didn't pull the trigger and Sloth took place with the name later? But wouldn't Envy cover his tracks better in the first place? Hmm... But Juliet has to be a fake alias one way or another. Since Homonculus obviously don't have real names.
Another thing about Envy...
He is confirmed as a 'he' in the Anime :heh:
And to Fighter Volk...
Pimp Boy is a TOTAL COWARD! Ha ha ha!
It's not as good as the last couple, but still pretty good. I want to see more of Scar, Lust and Gluttony and Roy though! Grargh!
sarcasteak
2004-05-11, 00:43
Envy: Like I would know!
Okay, now that I've watched the AA version, here are some points I thought of:
The bag that we saw last episode is probably the smashed-up skull piece that Envy used to imprisoned Greed. I still don't like how the anime depicts Greed as Envy's bitch, GRRR.
GREED IS SUPPOSED TO BE PIMP, m'KAY?!
Because of the anime's intention to connect Lust to Scar's sister-in-law (probably to allow a smoother transition for Scar to become Ed and Al's ally against the Sins), Lust is now a young Homonculus instead of an old school Sin who existed before Greed got imprisoned. Regardless of how much you anime-only people are annoyed by comparisons to the manga, I still want to point out that I liked it much more when Lust was the ring leader; maybe I just don't like Envy very much...
Sloth is now almost certain to be Ed and Al's human transmutation.
loki9x had already spoke of this, but I'm going to talk about the homonculus-creation process with emphasis on chronology: although it remains unclear how the transmuted version of Scar's sis-in-law, Izumi's kid, and Tricia Elric were all monsters that resembled nothing like human yet look exactly like how they should've been once they've become homonculus (except with pale skin), I can now finally construct a substantial theory regarding the "inconsistent chronology" people have been talking about: when "Lust" and "Sloth" were transmuted, they were intended to be adults and were immediately "ready" to become homonculus. I initially thought that because they were already adults, they were strong enough right away to open the gate on their own, but judging from Envy's impressed tone when he commented on how Wrath got out of the gate on his own, the rest of the Sins most likely came to being through a different method. In support of that, it is unlikley for Sloth and Lust to spawn from where they were originally transmuted (especially Lust...in the war-zone?). Unlike Lust and Sloth, Wrath was intended to be a baby so it took time for him to grow, but instead of having to wait to be brought in like everyone else, his acquisition of Ed's arm and leg made him capable of getting out on his own.
Cliffnotes for lazy people: Wrath started off as an infant and took quite some time to grow older to get out on his own whereas Lust and Sloth started off as adults and were already suitable to be brought into the world.
So...will there be a homonculus who took Al's entire body?
Wow. LOTS to learn here in this episode!
While everyone else is at it, I'd like to toss my theories out, too :)
Ok. So we found out in the previous episode that the kid was a homunculous. Not a "homo" :P He wasn't really that evil, or all that wrathful, etc, though. When Envy fed him some of the fake PS's though, he mentioned "Enjoy the taste. Because there are hundreds of human lives stuffed into those" (Using the KEEP&Anbu sub)
Later, when he runs back out and hugs Izumi, and she looks at the fake Fuher's corpse, she notices a mark on the back of Wrath, and seems to understand somthing.
While it's not stated, I think that it implies that the homunculous that come through the gate are innocent like that until they take a human life. While the kid did not kill anyone there, he did taste the PS, which Envy states are made with human lives. Envy a.so says that the kid MUST be a homunculous to be eating those.
After the kid eats them, he seems to remember everything, and sees his own kind of truth.
And about Ed's arm and leg...
I'm sorry, but I think it's kind of silly. If a homunculous needs a body part of an alchemist in order to preform alchemy, wouldn't all homuncili be able to?
Granted, none of them seem to have all the abilities of a "human" alchemist. They seem to have one specialty. Does this come from the body parts?
Which, to me, raises another question..
What do the beings in the gate do with all of the body parts received? XD
At first, I thought that perhaps homunculi took a long time to be created... because they were a mishmash of alchemist body parts from the exchange in a failed human transmutation. But if they are, in fact, a perfected form of the results of the transmutation themselves, then what do they do with the body parts?? Maybe Wrath just took Ed's arm & leg for the heck of it :P At first, we're led to believe that it's part of an equivalent exchange. Al's body& Ed's leg for their mother & the "truth", Ed's arm to seal Al's soul in the armor. However.. whether it was just tough-talking or not, Wrath makes it sound like Ed's sacrifices were not part of the equivalent exchange. Ed had also screamed before, in a moment of emotion that it didn't seem like an equivalent exchange to him.
Earlier speculation here on the boards suggests that he got something more intangible from it... which also makes sense. I still dont' think we know everything about what happened that day.
Oh.. and my two cents on the Sloth/Wrath chronology& age debate
We know that Izumi was sick before the Elrics trained with her. We know that at that time, Wrath was created. Ed& Al tried to transmute their mother later, so the homunculous from that was created later. We know that Wrath was stuck in the gates for an undetermined ammount of time, though.. and that makes sense because it seems at the time, he was just a baby. Trisha was not a baby, and Sloth may have had the strength/means to be reborn immediately without waiting.... or... there's somthing else involved in letting them out.
And what about the gate?? The sins know how homunculi are created. They seem to have an understanding that there is only one of each sin.. who is reborn or takes a new body from time to time. But when someone comes to the gate and sees the "truth" there are many shadowy figures with eyes. Are those all the results of failed transmutations as well? Is it that they do not have bodies.. or are they somthing else? When a body is created, it seems to be a vessel for the shadowy figures in the gate.... who have no souls?
Ahh! Sorry for writing so much. I hope it was an interesting read to someone, even if it's all wrong XD
sarcasteak
2004-05-11, 01:18
I don't think we need to spoil-tag everything anymore...^_^;;
While it's not stated, I think that it implies that the homunculous that come through the gate are innocent like that until they take a human life. While the kid did not kill anyone there, he did taste the PS, which Envy states are made with human lives.
After the kid eats them, he seems to remember everything, and sees his own kind of truth.
Well...I think the kid became wrathful because he regained his memory of everything that was caused by the fake PS candies, not because the candies involved human lives.
Envy a.so says that the kid MUST be a homunculous to be eating those.
Normal humans probably will just die if they eat those; they are, afterall, solid version of the "red water." Besides...I don't think they'll taste good to anyone not a homonculus. ^_^;;
And about Ed's arm and leg...
I'm sorry, but I think it's kind of silly. If a homunculous needs a body part of an alchemist in order to preform alchemy, wouldn't all homuncili be able to?
Granted, none of them seem to have all the abilities of a "human" alchemist. They seem to have one specialty. Does this come from the body parts?
Refer to my above post. I think the other Sins' abilities were granted by someone else, but Wrath escaped the gate with his own power and circumvented the normal process because he gained the ability to perform alchemy thanks to Ed's generous donations.
Maybe Wrath just took Ed's arm & leg for the heck of it :P At first, we're led to believe that it's part of an equivalent exchange. Al's body& Ed's leg for their mother & the "truth", Ed's arm to seal Al's soul in the armor. However.. whether it was just tough-talking or not, Wrath makes it sound like Ed's sacrifices were not part of the equivalent exchange.
That's pretty much how I thought of it. The trade wasn't really "equivalent" to begin with, which led me to believe that the "things" inside the gate simply take away whatever they can when someone foolish ventures the gate...which results in the "trade," or more accurately, punishment.
Ahh! Sorry for writing so much. I hope it was an interesting read to someone, even if it's all wrong XD
Doesn't matter whether you are wrong or not; feel free to contribute as long as your theories are supported and not random nonsense. :)
Sarca- I didn't see your above post because I was typing mine up at the same time as you. lol After I submitted mine, I noticed there was a new one above mine that I hadn't read.
Maybe I'll come up with some random nonsense later. Like the time Greed through a beach party and Envy was pissed b/c he wasn't invited.
Cool Episode. I will agree that the battle in the beginning could've been much more dramatic, but its not a big deal. Random observations..
1.) We now know the identities of six of the sins; all except Pride. Pride is mentioned as already existing by Greed. Envy confirms that all seven sins exist at this point. Out of the sins Lust, Sloth, and Wrath seem to be the newer sins. Greed and Envy have been around for at least a century. I don't think we know how long Gluttony or Pride have been along. I think that Pride, whoever he is has been around for a while since Greed seems to know about his existence (and greed was sealed up for a century).
2.) Envy sealed up Greed; something to do with some skull. I would like to know exactly what Greed and Envy's group are fighting about.
3.) If homunculus are created everytime someone attempts a human transmutation, was there someone created when Ed and Al tried it? As someone stated, Sloth was born BEFORE Ed and Al's attempt.
4.) I would definitely like to know why wrath took Eds arm. Why wasn't he born immediately after Izumi attempted the transformation? Why did he hang around inside that gate till Ed came along?
so many questions.. oh well. I am eagerly looking forward to seeing Mustang vs. Scar.. can't wait. Gluttony and Envy are in the same area.. I'm expecting great things.
I would like to express my annoyance at the people who are comparing the anime and the manga. This thread is tagged [anime], and according to the rules, should only discuss the topics.. please take your comparisons and put them in another thread.
You have already lost the ability to enjoy the series to its fullest by reading the manga... please don't ruin it for the rest of us.
thanks for the nice pictures :D, they were very ... good? hehehehe :D and no i still haven't been spoiled yet, it just makes me all the more exited.
sarcasteak
2004-05-11, 02:16
3.) If homunculus are created everytime someone attempts a human transmutation, was there someone created when Ed and Al tried it? As someone stated, Sloth was born BEFORE Ed and Al's attempt.
Then that "someone" stated wrong. We only know that a soldier named Julia Douglas started the Ishbal War and that Sloth currently works as the Fuhrer's secretary under the very name; we do not know whether Sloth was that soldier, so don't treat this like a fact.
4.) I would definitely like to know why wrath took Eds arm. Why wasn't he born immediately after Izumi attempted the transformation? Why did he hang around inside that gate till Ed came along?
The popular theory (well, "three" is popular I guess?) so far explains that the reason Wrath didn't come out right away was that he was born an infant instead of an adult like Lust or Sloth. From Envy's impressed tone (when he commented that Wrath got out on his own), I'm led to believe that the other Sins were brought out through a different method when they were deemed ready. It seems to me that Wrath might still be waiting in the gate had he not taken Ed's arm and leg.
I would like to express my annoyance at the people who are comparing the anime and the manga. This thread is tagged [anime], and according to the rules, should only discuss the topics.. please take your comparisons and put them in another thread.
Feel free to express your annoyance. Those particular manga information I mentioned and compared here no longer have any relevance to the anime. I am fully aware that certain future events in the manga might still be the same in both stories, but at THIS current point the manga story is more of an alternative universe so I don't see how I'm "spoiling" anything.
You have already lost the ability to enjoy the series to its fullest by reading the manga... please don't ruin it for the rest of us.
That is your opinion...a cute one but silly nonetheless. "Ohnoes, I abstain from reading the manga...I am higher than thou! Ha you losers who read the manga! No animation and no music!"
Feel free to express your annoyance. Those particular manga information I mentioned and compared here no longer have any relevance to the anime. I am fully aware that certain future events in the manga might still be the same in both stories, but at THIS current point the manga story is more of an alternative universe so I don't see how I'm "spoiling" anything.
That is your opinion...a cute one but silly nonetheless. "Ohnoes, I abstain from reading the manga...I am higher than thou! Ha you losers who read the manga! No animation and no music!"
Whether you are spoiling for future events or not is completely irrelevant. The rules don't say "talk about the manga if you're not spoiling". The rules say "talk only about the anime".
This thread isn't a place to talk about the manga... period. This is NOT the place to state why you liked the "manga-version" of Greed better, EVEN if your statements have no relevance to the anime and its future.
Make another thread without [anime], and post your comparisons there.
How is my opinion silly? You've read the manga. You have expectations about what is about to happen in the future. That is enough to ruin a series. The emotional impact of watching the entirely unexpected and tragic death in episode 25 is considerably lessened if you've read the manga ahead of time. The element of surprise is gone.. that is a fact.. not an opinion.
I've never said I was higher than anyone, or called anyone a loser. I know some people like the mangas better and I can respect their personal preferences. All I'm asking is for the manga readers to follow the rules posted... do not talk about the manga in certain threads. I don't think that's too much to ask.
sarcasteak
2004-05-11, 03:26
Whether you are spoiling for future events or not is completely irrelevant. The rules don't say "talk about the manga if you're not spoiling". The rules say "talk only about the anime".
This thread isn't a place to talk about the manga... period. This is NOT the place to state why you liked the "manga-version" of Greed better, EVEN if your statements have no relevance to the anime and its future.
Oh hey, Ed and Al defeated Cornell. Oops, that was in the manga as well. Sorry, I shouldn't mention that here.
Oh hey, I think if Greed were faster he could've beaten Envy to a pulp! Oops, that was a hypothetical comment not from the anime; I retract!
I respect your wish to keep your FMA experience strictly anime, I do, but I felt anything that is either completely the same in both versions (just an example of loopholes in the "rule") or any alternative depictions in the manga that are as relvent as any hypothetical remarks does not ruin your experience. I will take note of your complaint, though, and do a conscious effort to restrain myself from now on.
Make another thread without [anime], and post your comparisons there.
Forgive me that I did not spam a thread everytime I want to make comparisons specific to a particular point in the episode. I will be sure to do that in the future.
How is my opinion silly? You've read the manga. You have expectations about what is about to happen in the future. That is enough to ruin a series. The emotional impact of watching the entirely unexpected and tragic death in episode 25 is considerably lessened if you've read the manga ahead of time. The element of surprise is gone.. that is a fact.. not an opinion.
I'm sorry. I guess I didn't feel any emotions when the event in episode 25 occured during the manga. My bad...I ruined my experience of FMA because I saw the same event depicted differently. Clearly without the animation and the music, I ruined my experience of the series.
I've never said I was higher than anyone, or called anyone a loser. I know some people like the mangas better and I can respect their personal preferences. All I'm asking is for the manga readers to follow the rules posted. I don't think that's too much to ask.
Aww, don't take the entire comment seriously if you strongly believe some of the points don't apply to you; I was merely covering all grounds.
Oh hey, Ed and Al defeated Cornell. Oops, that was in the manga as well. Sorry, I shouldn't mention that here.
Oh hey, I think if Greed were faster he could've beaten Envy to a pulp! Oops, that was a hypothetical comment not from the anime; I retract!
I respect your wish to keep your FMA experience strictly anime, I do, but I felt anything that is either completely the same in both versions (just an example of loopholes in the "rule") or any alternative depictions in the manga that are as relvent as any hypothetical remarks does not ruin your experience. I will take note of your complaint, though, and do a conscious effort to restrain myself from now on.
Forgive me that I did not spam a thread everytime I want to make comparisons specific to a particular point in the episode. I will be sure to do that in the future.
I'm sorry. I guess I didn't feel any emotions when the event in episode 25 occured during the manga. My bad...I ruined my experience of FMA because I saw the same event depicted differently.
Aww, don't take the entire comment seriously if some of the points don't apply to you; I was merely covering all grounds.
Direct quote from the rules: "Threads with [Anime] in their title are strictly limited to anime discussion."
Its obvious from the above that posting facts about the manga version of Greed is not allowed in this thread.
Look, I'm not trying to be an ass, nor was I targeting you specifically. I'm merely asking everyone to stop further comparisons. The comparisons haven't ruined much for me so far, and I wish to keep it that way. I've had other series ruined for me by manga readers, and I wish to avoid that with FMA.
I do not care if you spam another thread when you want to make comparisons....just keep them out of a thread labeled [anime].
sarcasteak
2004-05-11, 04:23
Direct quote from the rules: "Threads with [Anime] in their title are strictly limited to anime discussion."
Its obvious from the above that posting facts about the manga version of Greed is not allowed in this thread.
I am well aware of the way the wording of the rule. My point was that I felt the those manga comparison can be treated as mere hypothetical scenarios, but thanks for bringing it to my attention that others don't necessarily see that the same way. I'll make a conscious effort to keep them out of the episode threads.
Oh, and I commend you for remaining civil even when I wasn't...^_^;;
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Lavender
2004-05-11, 05:07
This ep was very informative, and many of us can already conclude lots of answers from this ep~Such as the kid being Wrath, Homo's creation, etc.
But here's a thought nobody mentioned yet and I think it is quite significant:We see for the second time that Envy hates someone, he usually calls him "that bastard", and we can pretti much assume that person is Ed's father. So, could Ed's father be the one that did a HT and in turn created Envy? It would seem logical considering that Hoheimn(sp?^^") also studied HT. If this is true, who could it be that he tried to revive, and does this have anything to do with him leaving his family and kids and never goin bac??
Give me your thoughts plz^^~
and last but not least....LOVE FMA>o<
NOBODY cares to reply to my theory?? ><...oh well nonetheless i thought about it my self and hav somthing to add to it:this is one bit of information that might contridict my theory, and that is what envy said back in the 5th lab. He said that something like this to Ed "you are onli alive because he told US to keep you alive". Now if the father realli is the person that created Envy (through human transmutation), shouldnt Envy be the onli one that holds a grundge against him? But what Envy said to Ed makes it sound like the father is a superior to all the sins. So here's what i think now, a evloved version of my theory, is that father probably studied human transmutation a lot, did some experients and probably knows of the gate as well. He is the one who brought the sins through the gate when he thought they were ready to be brought into this world. The reason that Envy hates him might be because, Envy thought the Homuncli were better off not coming into this world, he probably thought existing in this world caused him pain.
Again, please tell me what your think about it.
sarcasteak
2004-05-11, 05:17
NOBODY cares to reply to my theory?? ><
Awww... :(
I chose to ignore it because it involved manga spoilers (this is hypocrisy on my part as I implicitly referred to the spoiler as well, but the rules are the rules). I will use PM to reply.
WabukiSensei
2004-05-11, 07:15
NOBODY cares to reply to my theory?? ><...oh well nonetheless i thought about it my self and hav somthing to add to it:this is one bit of information that might contridict my theory, and that is what envy said back in the 5th lab. He said that something like this to Ed "you are onli alive because he told US to keep you alive". Now if the father realli is the person that created Envy (through human transmutation), shouldnt Envy be the onli one that holds a grundge against him? But what Envy said to Ed makes it sound like the father is a superior to all the sins. So here's what i think now, a evloved version of my theory, is that father probably studied human transmutation a lot, did some experients and probably knows of the gate as well. He is the one who brought the sins through the gate when he thought they were ready to be brought into this world. The reason that Envy hates him might be because, Envy thought the Homuncli were better off not coming into this world, he probably thought existing in this world caused him pain.
Again, please tell me what your think about it.
The only problem with your theory is that envy is like over 130 years old or so, since both it and greed know each other and greed's been locked away for over a hundred years. Unless Ed's father is a very very old man, I'm having trouble accepting your theory.
bah, i finish watching the ep and suddenly i find out FMA is liscenced. :sad:
anyhow, i liked this ep. it filled out quite a lot of holes.
i think its time i checked out the manga since ppl seem to think there is a massive difference, i can read it without spoiling myself.
Maes Hughes
2004-05-11, 15:03
Good episode. I'm glad that it was finally explained how homunculus are created.
I watched the Sonchou version, and understood everything but one stupid thing. Is "body alchemy" another term for human transmutation?
Ice-Wolf
2004-05-11, 15:50
Good episode. I'm glad that it was finally explained how homunculus are created.
I watched the Sonchou version, and didn't understand one thing. Is "body alchemy" another term for human transmutation?
Yes.
And the text repeated in the end credits calls it "Flesh Forging"
English can express things in many ways :P
Wow that was very informative as to why the sins are all evil. They have all eaten red stones. By eating the red stones they get thier memories back and that they are from Hell.......
why do i see lust and gluttony towards the end ? what are they really planning to do. kill roy ?
sarcasteak
2004-05-12, 05:02
why do i see lust and gluttony towards the end ? what are they really planning to do. kill roy ?
My question is why they were at the refuge camp to begin with; weren't they assigned to deal with Greed while Envy is supposed to monitor Ed? The Sins don't know yet that Roy is intending to investigate Hughes' death so I don't see why they want to kill him.
Now that the fanboy vultures have flown, back to the speculation...
I've been thinking about Sloth aka Juliet Douglas aka 'she who looks like Trisha'. We know JD was alive during (and possibly caused) the Ishbal war, therefore before Trisha died which kind of makes the idea that Humonculus are created by HT a little confusing. However it's only a name, JD could well have been killed and when Sloth 'emerged' she took the identity.
Its clear from Eps 29-31 that a humonculus is born 'untainted'. They have to become a Sin by consuming proto-Philosopher Stone crystals. So it's entirely possible when the Humonculus emerged after Ed and AL's HT attempt failed she may have wandered around before being found and 'Sinified' (perhaps by Envy, as 'it' knows the process well), then adopted the name of Juliet Douglas.
How Slothful to steal another person's identity when you can't even be bothered to invent one of your own. Though like Wrath said, Humonculus do not have souls, so adopting alternative identities seems to be a way of 'life' for them.
*sigh* 19 more weeks of speculation... :heh:
Sonhex
CheOsanai
2004-05-12, 07:44
The real Juliet Douglas died 2 years before the Ishbal war, which puts the first appearance of Sloth around the same time Ed was born. So it's definatly not the result of Ed and Al's HT. Maybe their father was trying to create another woman in his wife's image and that is why it bears a resemblence to her?
The real Juliet Douglas died 2 years before the Ishbal war, which puts the first appearance of Sloth around the same time Ed was born. So it's definatly not the result of Ed and Al's HT. Maybe their father was trying to create another woman in his wife's image and that is why it bears a resemblence to her?
Hmm...I can't rememeber off-hand, but do we know when Sloth first appeared in the FMA timeline? Is there definitive proof that this was before Trisha died?
As I remember Sloth's first anime appearance was in the ep when Ed and Al get beaten up by Scar and Sloth takes Marcoh to the Fuhrer and Al remarks he heard their 'mother's voice'.
In any case we can speculate that if the 'real' Juliet Douglas died before Trisha's death then the Humonculus Ed/Al created could easily have adopted the 'real' JD's identity when she became Sloth as we have no image of the 'real' JD to contradict or confirm her likeness to Trisha.
Sonhex
CheOsanai
2004-05-12, 08:05
There is, in the episode when Sloth is revealed she is confronted about it all. Hughes says that the real Juilet Douglas died before the Ishbal war, and Winry's parents died in the Ishbal war while Ed and Al were still learning alchemy.
There is, in the episode when Sloth is revealed she is confronted about it all. Hughes says that the real Juilet Douglas died before the Ishbal war, and Winry's parents died in the Ishbal war while Ed and Al were still learning alchemy.
Yep, but there is no direct link between Sloth and the 'real' Juliet Douglas other than the name as mentioned by Hughes. Sloth looks like Trisha, no one is questioning that. But the 'real' and 'dead' Juliet Douglas may not have looked anything like Sloth/Trisha. I think Sloth is using the identity of the 'real' and 'dead' Juliet Douglas.
If Hughes had shown us a photo of the 'real' and 'dead' Juliet Douglas and she looked like Sloth and Trisha then yes, it would proof that Sloth was not created as result of the HT attempted by Ed and Al...
Sonhex
eh.. another random question...
Why is it that the Crimson alchemist clapped his hands when he was about to perform alchemy? Clapping is only Ed's thing... Mustang has the circle on his glove and he doesn't clap. Kimbly has his circle on his hand.
I find it kinda wierd that Kimbly wasn't able to capture Ed and Al... I didnt think Ed would be anywhere near powerful enough to defend himself form this maniac... strange.
sarcasteak
2004-05-13, 08:44
Why is it that the Crimson alchemist clapped his hands when he was about to perform alchemy? Clapping is only Ed's thing... Mustang has the circle on his glove and he doesn't clap. Kimbly has his circle on his hand.
We are told that Kimbley's ability is transmuting materials within human bodies into a powder-like substance and then compressing it rapidly to cause an explosion. Now, my initial assumption long ago was that he only claps when there are no bodies available to extract material from his own body, but apparently that is not that case.
In the instances he clapped, Kimberly only contacted the target's body one-handedly afterwards. In episode 22, he did not clap before blowing that prisoner up, but both palms contacted the victim's body. The only conclusion I can draw, then, is that his ability primarily works as a pair and requires both palms to contact his ammunition; otherwise, he must clap first before blowing up something single-handedly. As for why...I don't know either.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8718/kimbley.jpg
Notice how the two transmutation circles on his palms resemble a sun and a moon? I guess they are just meant to work in pair.
I find it kinda wierd that Kimbly wasn't able to capture Ed and Al... I didnt think Ed would be anywhere near powerful enough to defend himself form this maniac... strange.
Plot device, I guess? Besides, Kimbley's ability is to create explosions using human bodies as ammunition, so unless he decides to blow Ed and Al up, I don't think he can subdue them...he is more suitable for killing them.
Fighter Volk
2004-05-13, 17:03
Finally joining in for some latecomer speculation.
About the Sins... it's obvious that Envy, Greed, Pride, and possibly Gluttony are old-school. Lust, Sloth, and Wrath are obviously new. Why is Pride old-school, you might ask? Greed knew of his existence (and Envy's) in episode 30. Gluttony was not mentioned in either 30 or 31, so his old-schoolness is questionable.
And it seems that there have been a Seven Deadly Sins before, long long ago. Envy says something along the lines of, this is the fist time in a while all seven have gathered...
Only more episodes will reveal the truth.
Finally joining in for some latecomer speculation.
About the Sins... it's obvious that Envy, Greed, Pride, and possibly Gluttony are old-school. Lust, Sloth, and Wrath are obviously new. Why is Pride old-school, you might ask? Greed knew of his existence (and Envy's) in episode 30. Gluttony was not mentioned in either 30 or 31, so his old-schoolness is questionable.
And it seems that there have been a Seven Deadly Sins before, long long ago. Envy says something along the lines of, this is the fist time in a while all seven have gathered...
Only more episodes will reveal the truth.
And what as the thing about the skeleton that Envy mocked Greed about? I didn't see anyone mention that, wonder what that's all about?
Sonhex
Fighter Volk
2004-05-13, 18:37
Do you mean the skull? That's the skull upon which Greed's prison was forged, and hence when Barry created the explosion, the skull broke, and Greed awoke. I'm guessing the remains of the skull are what was in the mystery bag in episode 30.
Do you mean the skull? That's the skull upon which Greed's prison was forged, and hence when Barry created the explosion, the skull broke, and Greed awoke. I'm guessing the remains of the skull are what was in the mystery bag in episode 30.
Yeah must be the skull from Lab 5 - in the Sonchou sub for Ep.31 Envy asks about the 'skeleton', which confused me.
Wonder's whose skull it is, Greed's original body before HT? May suggest that if a body part is retained it can be used to imprison or debiliate the Humonculus. If so then Wrath has a very good reason to want the rest of Ed...
Sonhex
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