Torture--America's Folly

[HopelessLover]

As we all should well know by now, america was found guilty of torturing many prisoners of war. Yes, the america which symbolizes freedom, equality, and justice to the whole world, has comitted horrible crimes agianst humanity, and still are for all we know. They have shame-lessly committed human torture to Iraqi prisoners of war. And what is there reason behind it all? It was "some individuals fualts, and not directly america's"--That's a bunch of crap if you ask me.

I want to know what you guys think about this. And how america, which came to iraq promising freedom and lyberty, is now toturing it's people.

No matter how you guys look at it, America has done some thing very terrible and has to seriously face some grave consequences. There is no way any one can justify what they done.

[TronDD]

Well any group consists of individuals. "America" did not torture anyone. Regardless if you consider that to be "crap" or not. I know I didn't torture anyone and I take offense to you lumping me into some group of criminals.

Torturing war prisoners is a hell of a lot differant than "torturing Iraq's people" (not that either are simply excusable). Does anyone understand what war is anymore?

[aahhsin]

As we all should well know by now, america was found guilty of torturing many prisoners of war. Yes, the america which symbolizes freedom, equality, and justice to the whole world, has comitted horrible crimes agianst humanity, and still are for all we know. They have shame-lessly committed human torture to Iraqi prisoners of war. And what is there reason behind it all? It was "some individuals fualts, and not directly america's"--That's a bunch of crap if you ask me.

I want to know what you guys think about this. And how america, which came to iraq promising freedom and lyberty, is now toturing it's people.

No matter how you guys look at it, America has done some thing very terrible and has to seriously face some grave consequences. There is no way any one can justify what they done.

"The acts of the few does not reflect on the hearts of all americans" - George Bush. (*Something like that)

I don't approve of it, but every country has their own atrocities in wartime. Heck in WWII America cut the heads off the Japanese and boiled them so they can keep the skulls.

Iraq's resistance uses torture too.

We all know about Germany.

In Romania, Vlad the Impaler stuck stakes up people asses and drank their blood.

So we'll just let time pass and nobody will remember this.

[Dopeskills]

*******Flame Bait*******

http://ourworld.cs.com/by12282/lockd.gifhttp://ourworld.cs.com/by12282/lockd.gifhttp://ourworld.cs.com/by12282/lockd.gif

[Lanimoo]

I ain't torturing nobody, are you torturing someone?

[kamij0]

They have shame-lessly committed human torture to Iraqi prisoners of war. And what is there reason behind it all?

reason is to let them speak, normal right, though its a bit harsh.. the tortures are even worst if its saddam's troops

[boneyjellyfish]

If my experience in other message boards which have discussed this very topic has taught me anything, it's that everyone should avoid this and stay as far away as possible. Please, PLEASE, for the love of all that is sacred in this forum, do not reply to this thread!

[HopelessLover]

"The acts of the few does not reflect on the hearts of all americans" - George Bush. (*Something like that)

I don't approve of it, but every country has their own atrocities in wartime. Heck in WWII America cut the heads off the Japanese and boiled them so they can keep the skulls.

Iraq's resistance uses torture too.

We all know about Germany.

In Romania, Vlad the Impaler stuck stakes up people asses and drank their blood.


First off we all know that Bush is trying to use individual people to get the heat off of him, but the truth of the matter is that when people look at who got totured, they do not look at the individuals who did it, but at the leader ship that the individuals were following. So it's directly america's fualt--no matter how you look at it that's how people of the world will feel.

Another thing, this is not the old war world days. This is a whole new era, becuase of the geneva convention (which the united states was whole heartly part of), it was agreed torture was absolutely agianst crimes of humanity, and contries that participated in the convention would vow not to follow torture. It was specially important for america to follow this promise because they stood for justice in the world.

Now you have to realize, the countries of the world see america as this good (super-heroic) type of country, and for them to do some thing like toture, it's like every thing they claim to stand for, like lyberty justice, and humanity, goes down the drain. So it's a huge deal.

Finnaly, the fact of "if the other side does it, why can't we" doesn't work no more. Just becuase the opposing Iraqi side does "this" or "that" doesn't mean america should be able to do it. Infact if they did do it then they would be just as bad as them. In a simpler description, say some one got raped, would it then be right for that person who got raped to go out and rape some one else? No it would not, infact it would very much be look down upon. Same goes here. America is not, and can not do some thing like torture just becuase the "other side does it too".

[Lunchboxx]

I could really careless about them torturing Iragis, its war thats what happens.....all that ive really seen in the papers is that they made them take there cloths off and get in wierd postions......sure its agianst there religion but its still not all that bad when it comes to torture.....but this is only the stuff that there puting out in the new....imagine how bad the torture is that they are covering up.

[mantidor]

I could really careless about them torturing Iragis, its war thats what happens.....all that ive really seen in the papers is that they made them take there cloths off and get in wierd postions......sure its agianst there religion but its still not all that bad when it comes to torture.....but this is only the stuff that there puting out in the new....imagine how bad the torture is that they are covering up.
:eyebrow: What the...? are you saying is not really wrong?

My surprise didn't come from the torture itself, but for the discover of it. I was sure about tortures even before the news. in wars it always comes down to this hideous situations, humans are the nicest of species, you know...

[babbito2k]

As we all should well know by now, america was found guilty of torturing many prisoners of war. Yes, the america which symbolizes freedom, equality, and justice to the whole world, has comitted horrible crimes agianst humanity, and still are for all we know. They have shame-lessly committed human torture to Iraqi prisoners of war. And what is there reason behind it all? It was "some individuals fualts, and not directly america's"--That's a bunch of crap if you ask me.

I want to know what you guys think about this. And how america, which came to iraq promising freedom and lyberty, is now toturing it's people.

No matter how you guys look at it, America has done some thing very terrible and has to seriously face some grave consequences. There is no way any one can justify what they done.Unjustifiable? Yes. Shameless? No. It is extremely embarrassing and upsetting to see anyone being humiliated in such a fashion, no matter who is doing it to whom. Many Americans within the services and without are ashamed that this is done by anyone wearing the uniform of the United States armed forces.

Is America responsible in a general way? Yes, but I do not know of any evidence that anyone was ordered to do any such thing. As far as I know this is a lapse in overseeing the care of the prisoners.

Are the individuals who committed these acts responsible in a specific way? Yes, and on them will be placed the brunt of the punishment, unless they are shown to have been following the orders of others, who would then be held liable to punishment.

I think that worldwide knowledge of what has happened amounts to very grave consequences for the United States.

Above and beyond this I will not go. I will not suffer any unproven notions that the torture of prisoners of war is a policy of the United States armed forces.

[Green²]

Us torturing Iraqi POWs? Naaaaw, I'm sure we outsource that job as well.

[Taboo]

OMG Its the SEX THREAD dude! I recognized the name, but "find all threads started by" was confirmation.

On topic, I think you are being very narrow minded about this. Yes, its wrong. Yes, its VERY wrong. But every single American can not be held accountable. Insisting so is as crazy as the fools who blamed 911 on every single middle eastern person. No matter what you say, it was those individuals' fault. As soon as you have evidence that every single American was conspiring to torture people, then you can blame us all.

[SwiftStar]

As was said before. America didnt torture anybody. A lot of crimes over the years have been committed by many governments, their military and their police forces that do not directly reflect the hearts and wills of their citizens. Hell, some of the actual crimes were committed against the actual citizens.
As for who's to blame. I truly beleive that soldiers, while on duty, do not function the same way as other people. They follow orders. They follow orders or they die. That is a fundamental ideal that is ingrained into them from basic training on. I really dont beleive that any one or small group of soldiers decided to do any torturing without orders from somewhere higher up and I hope those guys arent made into scapegoats.

[dragonz20]

First off we all know that Bush is trying to use individual people to get the heat off of him, but the truth of the matter is that when people look at who got totured, they do not look at the individuals who did it, but at the leader ship that the individuals were following. So it's directly america's fualt--no matter how you look at it that's how people of the world will feel.

Another thing, this is not the old war world days. This is a whole new era, becuase of the geneva convention (which the united states was whole heartly part of), it was agreed torture was absolutely agianst crimes of humanity, and contries that participated in the convention would vow not to follow torture. It was specially important for america to follow this promise because they stood for justice in the world.

Now you have to realize, the countries of the world see america as this good (super-heroic) type of country, and for them to do some thing like toture, it's like every thing they claim to stand for, like lyberty justice, and humanity, goes down the drain. So it's a huge deal.

Finnaly, the fact of "if the other side does it, why can't we" doesn't work no more. Just becuase the opposing Iraqi side does "this" or "that" doesn't mean america should be able to do it. Infact if they did do it then they would be just as bad as them. In a simpler description, say some one got raped, would it then be right for that person who got raped to go out and rape some one else? No it would not, infact it would very much be look down upon. Same goes here. America is not, and can not do some thing like torture just becuase the "other side does it too".


You talk as if President Bush actually gave the order to torture those Iraqis. Oh yeah... I am sure he wanted to give an order that might come back to kick him in the ass, mess up all the work that is being put into making the Iraqis trust the Americans, and make the whole world think he's even more ruthless and idiotic that what they already thinks of him. hhmmm yeah that makes complete sense... <end of sarcasm>

maybe you didn't realize that the President of the United States delegates most his power and command to people underneath him. As much as you would love to place all the blame on him for everything that's being screwed up in this world, he is only one man and doesn't absolutely control everything that is American. You're like the typical idiotic sports fan that blames everything on the coach when your team doesn't perform well.

If I was in a more evil mood, I'd flame you for making those idiotic comments.

[Taboo]

I truly beleive that soldiers, while on duty, do not function the same way as other people. They follow orders. They follow orders or they die. That is a fundamental ideal that is ingrained into them from basic training on. I really dont beleive that any one or small group of soldiers decided to do any torturing without orders from somewhere higher up and I hope those guys arent made into scapegoats. Thats not true. I have been on military bases all over and know many soldiers and I don't know how to explain it other than that is just not true. Soldiers act on their own accord -all the time.- When you see them in Maxim, all with issues of the lastest magazine and grinning for the camera in Baghdad, they did it because they chose to. (Technically, Maxim is not allowed and is considered pornography, but they don't care.) The military leadership would love it to be the way you describe it, but 80% of soldiers are average guys that have just been trained more. While some higher leadership may have overlooked or even participated in the acts, ordering abuse would have been an unlawful order and the soldiers would have known that they didn't have to obey.

[LoveOfAnime]

These are just my thoughts

At this moment I have one thing to say THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION for what my own countrymen that are supposed to fight for freedom did!! I have lost sleep and shed tears for the cruelty of my own nationality and my own species. Excuses do not and will not erase the actions of the people involved. IT MAKES ME SICK to think of it.

[Lexander]

Hopelesslover, here is a little history of you:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=7879

I mean come on, every one knows white girls can't give better head then latin girls.


What if she starts luaghing at me?


Foreplay is important?


And this thread proved to me that you generally have no idea what you're talking about.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=10069&page=1&pp=20

So why should I take anything you say seriously?



Do you really think that if an American GI got in the hands of some Iraqs it would be better? If I was an American soldier and I would get captured, I would prey to the god of every relgion that all they do to me is get me naked and take a picture with underwear on my face.

[MikoKikyo]

Hopelesslover, here is a little history of you:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=7879
LOL :heh: :heh: :heh:

well well... BJF is probably right about this thread. I don't see what can come out of this except mindless anti-Americanism or mindless patriotism. :help:

[babbito2k]

well well... BJF is probably right about this thread. I don't see what can come out of this except mindless anti-Americanism or mindless patriotism.You make it sound like there are only two kinds of people in the forum.

[MikoKikyo]

No mean to offend anyone by that! :bash:

babbito2k , so nice of you to rephrase that into a nicer statement :)
You're right though, I was the one who was being mindless, especially because I didn't bother to read any of the posts containing actual arguments :uhoh: ok give me some neg rep if you want, I deserve it! (And I take that awful statement back!)

[rEkKaShInObI]

it was really mest up seeing the iraqi's doing nasty things against their wills, an they call themselves american soldiers.. surely other countries will look at us differently. how do you think the soldiers should be punished?

[babbito2k]

...how do you think the soldiers should be punished?Courts-martial, prison sentences for those found guilty - nothing out of the ordinary. I don't have anything against international courts but Bush will never go for anything like that.

[Slade]

There is no way any one can justify what they done.

Yes. They Done Bad.

The standards a world power needs to uphold is inhuman- espacially in times of "war". I think we're stil in war... right? Right?

Who knows?

If I ran a country I'd go by the eye for a leg criteria. If you take out a house, I will take a city, if you take a city, I will annihilate your entire country innocent people and all.

Well, not really. But Iraqi people should be glad a person with that kind of mentality is not in power.

In short, human nature is cruel... Booo Fukin Hooo. :D

Come on... hate me! Give me some neg rep :D

[babbito2k]

...The standards a world power needs to uphold is inhuman- espacially in times of "war"...I think "human" is the standard I expect my country to live up to in war or peace - human beings respecting the rights of other human beings as much as possible.Come on... hate me! Give me some neg repPlease stop this.

[dragonz20]

boneyjellyfish was right... this is a huge waste of all of our time. What's the point in flaming some snot-nosed punk kid who hasn't even popped his cherry yet and don't know jack crap about world politics?

then again, i do enjoy wasting my time.

[boneyjellyfish]

boneyjellyfish was right... this is a huge waste of all of our time. What's the point in flaming some snot-nosed punk kid who hasn't even popped his cherry yet and don't know jack crap about world politics?

then again, i do enjoy wasting my time.

Now that we've established that, perhaps it's time to start wagering with monopoly money? You know what I'm talking about, dragonz20. :D

[Slade]

boneyjellyfish was right... this is a huge waste of all of our time. What's the point in flaming some snot-nosed punk kid who hasn't even popped his cherry yet and don't know jack crap about world politics?

then again, i do enjoy wasting my time.


touche'...

Well, I'm a firm believer of

stupid thread -----> even more stupid reply

No fun looking at things too seriously unless it's called for and in this instance I don't see the need.

I think "human" is the standard I expect my country to live up to in war or peace - human beings respecting the rights of other human beings as much as possible.Please stop this.

oh, and when you find this instance when everyone is living up that standard. Do take a picture... it'd be a Kodak moment for sure. :D

[dragonz20]

Now that we've established that, perhaps it's time to start wagering with monopoly money? You know what I'm talking about, dragonz20. :D

since u mentioned it first, if anything bad happens, i am not too blame... LOL

5 monopoly dollars on nosanninwa... he's da only one i see logged on... this is a sure winner almost.

[mah_damey]

As we all should well know by now, america was found guilty of torturing many prisoners of war. Yes, the america which symbolizes freedom, equality, and justice to the whole world, has comitted horrible crimes agianst humanity, and still are for all we know. They have shame-lessly committed human torture to Iraqi prisoners of war. And what is there reason behind it all? It was "some individuals fualts, and not directly america's"--That's a bunch of crap if you ask me.

I want to know what you guys think about this. And how america, which came to iraq promising freedom and lyberty, is now toturing it's people.

No matter how you guys look at it, America has done some thing very terrible and has to seriously face some grave consequences. There is no way any one can justify what they done.

wow. thats a little one sided, n it rlly pisses me off since you seem to think all of us are supporting that shit. sure its a horrible thing that they did, but not all of america is at fault, i bet 99.999999% of us look down on it. plus, americans have been through a lot of shit too, the iraqis have killed a bunch of americans, not just soldiers, so of course the americans are gonna wanna do somthing to their pows. im not saying it was the rite thing to do, but come on, its a lot easier sed than done to juss leave the enemy all nice n comfy while their captured.

[boneyjellyfish]

since u mentioned it first, if anything bad happens, i am not too blame... LOL

5 monopoly dollars on nosanninwa... he's da only one i see logged on... this is a sure winner almost.

I'll see your five monopoly dollars and raise you a ten. I'm betting on the underdog, Lefteris_D!

[dragonz20]

I'll see your five monopoly dollars and raise you a ten. I'm betting on the underdog, Lefteris_D!

I call. I am gonna be ten monopoly dollar richer in a few minutes.. bwhahahaha...

[Lexander]

xris didn't come through for me last time ... but I still hope ... 50 + a railroad on teH grumpy one.

[NoSanninWa]

Well this thread is obviously way too much trouble to stay open though I am particularly irritated by the people who worked to get it closed.

I'm giving 5 demerits to HopelessLover for creating this thread and 3 demerits to Slade for being so obnoxious about it.

Lexander, dragonz20 and boneyjellyfish get 1 demerit apiece for betting on it.