Now and Then, Here and There... (Ima, Soko ni Iru Boku)

[Ambience Blue]

I started this series and it's immensely disturbing, though powerful. The box just looked like another lighthearted shounen, but inside it, it was pretty insane. Anyone else agree that this is the most f*cked up anime? I had to stop watching once I figured out what was happening to Sara (Sala)... Need to take a break before I launch back into it... Is this the work of a genius or a madman? Any thoughts?

[TronDD]

2nd most disturbing series for me (after Narutaru). I love it. A great display of what humans can do to each other. What makes it so impactful is that people like Hamdo really exist.

Sara's...predicament...really hit me, too.

I kept saying to myself. "That didn't just happen, they didn't rape her. I didn't see it, so that's not what happened." I aws seriously rocking my self in the fetal position. Then they do it to her a few more times :( Then it gets worse. :sad:

The show made me feel ashamed to be part of the human race. I will never get over it.

[velmeran]

I just finished watching this series and I was deeply moved by some of the scenes. But I also saw a few problems with the story line that made me want to strangle the writers near the end.

The biggest problem with this whole show was Abelia and how she followed Hamdo for the entire show. No military commander is going to sit back and take what Hamdo gives her for any amount of time. Some will explain this away as in that she loved Hamdo, but we see that he really doesn't care for her or anyone and I think she should of atleast woken up to this earlier and tried to remove him herself.

I loved this series though because it didn't even attempt to be a happy show, instead it dealt with the horrors of war and what happens when children are involved in it. The whole scene with Boo and Soon's death was an excelent scene, not only does it show the follies of war (children taking revenge for the loss of parents), but it forces our secondary main character to see exactly what is going on, and the things he has lost in himself for him to be able to do that.

Lala Ru's self sacrifice though was kinda expected, I would of been more surprised if she had survived then gone out in one big finale. I loved her character though, because she was the omnipotent being that had seen thousands of years of human bloodshed and really lost hope in us. It was only through Shu showing her that there are good people out there, that she realized she had to help in order to make things right once again.

Sara's character was probably the most tragic of them all because she had no real place in the world. She was just mistaken as Lala Ru and then captured. She had no way of really changing any of the things that happened too her in the first 90% of the story line. What she has control over mostly is whether to have the child or not, and I believe Sis told her what she had to do is she decided to keep it. Lets not forget though that during times of war much of what went on during the show happens in real life. Rounding up the men and boys, raping the women and girls, all are parts of dominating a group of people and turning them into your subjects.

The power of this story line I think is that it could fall into place today, as well as in the past or the future, and still be completely relevent to the human condition.

[dreamless]

I love NTHT, however I hate Shu's stupid optimism. Sala on the other hand ROCKS!!!

For Abelia... I guess to her Hamdo is somewhat like her son.. it's really some kind of twisted motherly love I guess...

I don't really like how they treat the notion of abortion and make Sala not returning in the end... but that's the dark reality of real life I guess ;)

The only complaint I have against this show is how it antagonizes those rebels. I mean, it seems the show tells us that when we have a cruel maniacal tyrant ruler, we should just bear with it and wait for him to die someday somehow, instead of taking arms to fight him

[Ambience Blue]

I just finished the rest of the story, and it looks like I'm not going to be able to sleep for the rest of the week.

The harsh reality of the series blew me away, and several times throughout, I was muttering, "this is impossible." The more I thought about it though, the more I realized that stuff like that is timeless. It's happened in the past and is happening now. A chilling reminder of our own base humanness.


For me, it was Sara whom I couldn't bear watch. A short synopsis of her story would be: Shit happens. Even bigger shit happens. It couldn't get worse... never mind, it did. If any character was tortured more than any others, it had to be Sara. Shu, though bearing the brunt of the physical harm, somehow had the unrealistic drive to stay alive. In fact, his naive, childish optimism in the face of Sara's physical and emotional suffering almost made me stop watching sometimes. One thing that added some closure to her story, though, was the one soldier/spy who took pity on her and offered to run away with her. In the last episode, he saves the one boy who has fallen in the water and is swept away. The birthing allusions are strong here, and left no doubt that the father to Sara's child was him.

Also, Velerman, I agree and disagree with you on a couple of counts. I was praying throughout the series that it would be Abelia who would take Hamdo's life in the end, but it never happened. Had it done so, it would have been all the more powerful/relieving. However, I think that omission was intentional. The scriptwriter obviously created the film to depict reality, not drama, and in that way he does justice by not making Abelia change. As we have seen in some of the most horrific historic sins by humankind, men have sat by and executed the diabolical plans of others without question-- whether it be from fear or indoctrination. Lalaru's killing of Hamdo could almost be seen as divine punishment-- retribution for meddling in affairs that men should not.


All in all, it left me staring at the empty screen in front of me for at least two minutes while I tried to comprehend what the hell had happened. I guess I can answer my own question (about the genius and the madman) earlier-- it takes a little bit of both. The genius to see that such folly exists in this world, and the madman to have the courage to say it...

[Fighter Volk]

This is probably my favorite anime series. It never shies away from what it begins to do. As someone said above, it makes you ashamed to be part of the human race. The worst part is that situations just as bad or worse than this one are always happening throughout the world, and we just sit back and ignore it.

I don't know why there's all this optimistic Shu bashing -- I really, really liked him. Without him, I really doubt I could have watched the whole series. It's just so damn harsh...

And on Abelia's case, I think it was indeed purposeful on the scriptwriter's case to simply leave her as she was and not have her change. I think one of the most powerful scenes in the last episodes was when Abelia is watching through the window as Hamdo's corpse is being thrown through the water, and she's just standing there... ohman...

Amazing, amazing stuff.

[TronDD]

The only complaint I have against this show is how it antagonizes those rebels. I mean, it seems the show tells us that when we have a cruel maniacal tyrant ruler, we should just bear with it and wait for him to die someday somehow, instead of taking arms to fight him

Look around. There are many such countries right now. To a lesser extent, even in peaceful countries, there are people unhappy with the way the government does things.
With a violent tyrant, it is far safer to lay low, and not draw attention to yourself. People have a self preservation instict and think "If they aren't after me, I'm not going to do anything that will attract them."

The people in the village Hamdo was looking for showed this "over throw the tyrant"/"Stay hidden and survive" conflict in an interesting way. As you said, those who wanted to fight were shown as the bad guys. They were, of course. But those who didn't want to fight for the right reason were not really good guys, either.

Which brings us to the justification of the war in Iraq. Those people needed Saddam overthrown. He was a horrible dictator and much of what happens in Now and Then, has been done by his regime.

[dreamless]

Which brings us to the justification of the war in Iraq. Those people needed Saddam overthrown. He was a horrible dictator and much of what happens in Now and Then, has been done by his regime.


nah, by NTHT's reasoning, Saddam is going to die someday anyway, so just wait for that day to come. good guys shouldn't kill people, not even Saddam or his army or whoever else. if you try to kill Saddam or his army or anyone, you are a bad guy... at least that's what I feel NTHT is trying to say...

the real world sure has the "over throw the typrant"/"stay hidden and survive" conflicts, but I feel a bit annoyed is how NTHT takes on the issue. It specifically antagonized the "over throw the typrant" idea...

[Suikun]

It's been about two years, now, since I saw this series so I don't remember enough details to comment on anything specifically, but I must say this series blew both me and my Dad (who I finally got to watch it with me) away. This series protrays the good and bad in humans in such a disturbingly realistic way, and I couldn't have chosen a better storyline myself to get such points across. It's a shame, really, that this series has received such little popularity or attention.

[jennwenn]

This series was definitely a difficult watch. If it wasn't for Shu's optimism, I think I would have gone crazy.

I don't really agree with Sis's "we shouldn't fight" mentality either. Are you crazy? Pacifism can only go so far. You have to get him while you can. You can't just sit there while he keeps killing and torturing people. He could come to your village one day, and as we see, he does. Sis didn't deserve to be treated that way though, the rebels in the village went about it the wrong way too. Overall, it was depressing to see the village tear itself apart before Hamdo even got there.

What did people feel was wrong with the show's treatment of abortion? I thought it was well handled. Sara was obviously in a lot of emotional pain and I could understand that she wished it never happened to her, she wished the baby never existed as a constant reminder that she was raped. In the end, she learned to love it because like Sis said, its not the baby's fault. I don't think the show passes judgement on abortion as overwhelming wrong or right. It attempts to explain both sides of the issue. In the end, I felt it was really Sara's individual decision and not some director telling us "abortion is evil" because its not that simple.

Sara went through the most. I would hate Lalaru's guts too if I were her. To think she went through all that JUST because of one mistake someone made.

What really depressed me about this series is that things like this happen in the real world.

[dreamless]

This series was definitely a difficult watch. If it wasn't for Shu's optimism, I think I would have gone crazy.

I don't really agree with Sis's "we shouldn't fight" mentality either. Are you crazy? Pacifism can only go so far. You have to get him while you can. You can't just sit there while he keeps killing and torturing people. He could come to your village one day, and as we see, he does. Sis didn't deserve to be treated that way though, the rebels in the village went about it the wrong way too. Overall, it was depressing to see the village tear itself apart before Hamdo even got there.

What did people feel was wrong with the show's treatment of abortion? I thought it was well handled. Sara was obviously in a lot of emotional pain and I could understand that she wished it never happened to her, she wished the baby never existed as a constant reminder that she was raped. In the end, she learned to love it because like Sis said, its not the baby's fault. I don't think the show passes judgement on abortion as overwhelming wrong or right. It attempts to explain both sides of the issue. In the end, I felt it was really Sara's individual decision and not some director telling us "abortion is evil" because its not that simple.

Sara went through the most. I would hate Lalaru's guts too if I were her. To think she went through all that JUST because of one mistake someone made.

What really depressed me about this series is that things like this happen in the real world.
It implies that if you got raped and get pregnant, you should keep the child. which sounds ridiculous to me. Children are supposed to be result of love. now where's the love?

I hate Shu's optimism, especially when he told Sala all the time "it will become better", when it goes from bad to worse to much worse... that's what I call stupid optimism. Too bad the show seems to encourage this kind of optimism... IMO if you are so optimistic that you decide that you can win against a mecha with a wooden stick, you deserve to die.

[TronDD]

It implies that if you got raped and get pregnant, you should keep the child. which sounds ridiculous to me. Children are supposed to be result of love. now where's the love?

I hate Shu's optimism, especially when he told Sala all the time "it will become better", when it goes from bad to worse to much worse... that's what I call stupid optimism. Too bad the show seems to encourage this kind of optimism... IMO if you are so optimistic that you decide that you can win against a mecha with a wooden stick, you deserve to die.

Abortion:
Children are the result of sex. Nothing more. I don't think the point of Sara being pregnent was a commentary on abortion. I feel it was more about her comming to terms with what happened to her. She can hate Lalaru, the baby, herself, whatever, but it won't change anything. She had to realize that life sucks sometimes but you press on. Keeping the baby symolizes her acceptance of the events.

Shu:
Shu's optimizm is pretty absurd. But I think it provides a necessary contrast to the events of the series. Shu always tried his hardest to overcome, and when bad things happened, he'd move on and try hard again. Meanwhile Sara would be filled with hate, anger, and a desire to give up. I think that stark contrast was necessary to further highlight the things going on around Shu.

[dreamless]

hehe kinda off-topic but just think it would be great if they continue the story like this, Sala keeps the child but still hating him all the time, so much so that the child, under constant hatred from his mother, and with the questionable background of his father, grows up to become a Johan-like Monster-kind of serial killer and goes back in time to kill Shu's family and friends one by one... now that would be some good stuff :cool: ;) :D

[TronDD]

Actually, I think it would be neat to see some of Lalaru's past. The events of this show don't even phase her, what the hell else has she seen? What is she exactly? Where/when is she from? etc. We don't even really get any glimpse into her thoughts of what she is seeing, I'd like to have been in her mind through some of the series.

[hunterx]

I just finished this series a couple of days ago, sara definately got the raw end of the deal on the whole anime. It was pretty obvious being a girl on a chick full of horny soldiers what would happen to her. It's a tough series to watch but it makes you think of how much worse the people had it when the germans were invading everyone.

[Ambience Blue]

Actually, I think it would be neat to see some of Lalaru's past. The events of this show don't even phase her, what the hell else has she seen? What is she exactly? Where/when is she from? etc. We don't even really get any glimpse into her thoughts of what she is seeing, I'd like to have been in her mind through some of the series.

I actually liked the fact that they left much of Lala-Ru's past a secret, I mean, there wasn't much to imagine. It's revealed later that she's been around for thousands of years (I actually think the poem at the beginning of the show before the credits is about her) in the form of a child, and is entombed in fable as a mythical water-bringing witch. She has no optimism whatsoever, b/c from her prior experiences, she understands that people only take her for granted, gain power, then kill each other. Just imagine what happened at Helliwood and Bali Zaid? happening over and over in her memory. It actually shocked me when I found out she wasn't a kid-- for her technical omnipotence, she's so weak and self-defeatist. I think that surprise made the series all the more memorable though-- welcome to a world where the gods have no power.

I personally also agree with Tron and Dreamless on the point of Shu's optimism. There were times when I admired him for his strength to live on, but when he tried to stop Sara from killing herself and spoke hollow words to her, I stood on the verge of throwing stuff at the screen. Though what he was talking about may have applied to the child soldiers, Lala-Ru, the slaves, and himself, it certainly didn't apply to Sara. It did disturb me, though, that Shu saw the negative emotional change after seeing Nabuca die. You can tell from the way he looked at his kendo equipment when he returned home that he was scarred forever. Though I disagreed with Shu's optimism, though, I couldn't help but admire the optimism that Sis had. Hers was a different kind-- a courage that came not from childish inexperience, but a desire to live, hardened by years of torment. She presents the logical, mature voice in the series that no other character has. Her death is thus that much more shattering.


Btw, I had an outside-story question: Did this series air on TV in Japan? (I'm sure it did) But I was just curious as to when (what time) and where (what type of channels)-- The material in it, though true-- seemed waaay too grim and dark for the average watcher to take without much emotional trauma. It's one thing to watch something like Hellsing and watch the blood flow, but it's another realm with the psychological elements present in NTHT.

[TronDD]

[spoiler] I actually liked the fact that they left much of Lala-Ru's past a secret, I mean, there wasn't much to imagine. It's revealed later that she's been around for thousands of years (I actually think the poem at the beginning of the show before the credits is about her) in the form of a child, and is entombed in fable as a mythical water-bringing witch. She has no optimism whatsoever, b/c from her prior experiences, she understands that people only take her for granted, gain power, then kill each other.


I like that an explicit shawing of Lalaru's past and such were left out in this series, too. It wouldn't fit, I don't think. However, a different series that was more from her point of view would be cool. Something kinda documentary-like could be an interesting way to do it. If I had any creativity, maybe I'd write a fan-fic. :)

Welcome to a world where the gods have no power.

I like that statement. Very interesting interpretation.

[ubb]

I've seen several short clips of NTHT, main reason I didn't watch it then was because I didn't find one kendo kid beating 5 other kid using guns as realistic(of course, back then I was such an anime newbie looking for something realistic in anime is like finding a needle in a haysack). I'd probably watch the whole series some other time.

[Lord Raiden]

Man, I just finished watching this and all I can say is "like...wow". Yes, this is most definately one seriously F'ed up anime. On par with Narutaru most definately. I'd complain about a few inconsistencies and some stuff left unresolved/unanswered, but good gauds, I'm still so in shock I'm not even gonna bother. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

And poor Boo. :(:(:(

[TerryMathews]

I'm probably going to get slapped for reviving an old thread, but I just watched NTHT last night and wanted to see what everyone else though - and having read that I want to interject my interpretation, that no one else seemed to come up with.

Lala Ru is, by her own admission, "tens of thousands of years old". Assuming the whole show is set on Earth, just in different time periods as is the indication, Lala Ru has been witness to most of the events of human history.

Part of Shu's character is that he never gives up and never hangs back. Maybe I'm reading too much into it and romanticising it a little too much, but I think that Lala Ru went to Shu's time specifically to drag him along, knowing that he had the innocence of a child and the determination necessary to defeat Hamdo. No one else was stupid and blindly aggressive enough to defeat Hamdo; just look at the way the Zani Bars villagers kept futzing everything up.

I think Shu (and Sara) are a hidden testament to the strength of children.

[wao]

I really like that statement where someone said this show is depicting reality, not drama.

That is what this show is, and people will in the real world choose to keep the baby rather than abort, because people do think differently. The show is not going to carefully structure EVERY single event that happens and fit morals and certain reactions to suit the story THE WAY VIEWERS EXPECT IT TO BE. Of course they still have to structure the story because how else do you produce a show, but, it's not like the reactions in NTHT are completely unrealistic and have no sense behind them. Anything is possible when you've undergone so much trauma.

Also, again, even thoguh Shu's optimism is annoying, childlike and indeed rather stupid, not only does it help some people watch the show as seen in this thread, it is again realistic. There ARE people in this world who will resort to blind optimism to help them get through things, and especially children. Do you honestly expect all of them to be smart, mature individuals who know how to deal with every situation the way you expect them to?
It may be annoying but at least it's an accurate, realistic picture. I don't think the show was particularly trying to put it in a 100% good light, but of course, at least some form of optimism is better than moping around in depression.

I must say thoguh, I only watched this 4 years ago when it showed on AXN (ahhh, the days when AXN actually showed other things!) and my reaction as an 11-year-old was that 1. I didn't really understand the gravity of what happened. Either that, or 2. It was so traumatizing that it got sealed in my memories and the only "memory" I have is me fixed to the screen. I did watch every episode faithfully unlike my friend who introduced me to anime, she stopped watching after teh 2nd episode. I suppose she was looking for more typical anime (we were both just starting on anime).
I do remember I was extremely depressed that Lala-Ru disappeared forever and never came back again. I think it was the first time I ever felt anything that way about a show, and I felt the sadness of losing someone forever. (My grandma had died when I was 10 and my grandpa before I was born but I didn't care.)

[Ilpalazzo-sama]

Hi

(Note: I did search the forums for a topic about this series, and could not find one. However if there were already one, I'm sorry).

I've just finished watching this series (AniDB info (http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=114))...it was an excellent depressing/drama anime, but have some questions (spoilers inside).

Question 1:
Where, or more like, when is it playing? At the last episode, Hamdo calls out to Abelia and says something like "Take me to another year"...does that means that this was in earth's future, or it is still an alternative universe?
Question 2:
At the very end, they send Shu back to his homeland...he arrives, finds his stuff, looks up and...he arrived on the next day/same day he left, at the sunset, right? Sorry for the stupid question, but that scene looks a bit weird to me, cause the factory chimneys looked different at the very end scene.
Question 3:
Who is Lala Ru exactly? She is not a human, i know that, but what/who is she exactly?

Thanks.

[microlith]

Ah NTHT. The one series I can't help but hold high in my collection but have never been able to watch again.

1) Supposedly it takes place some time in the distant future. They're never too clear about it, and I can't really say that for certain considering how drastically different the environment is without any change in the people. An alternate universe is as plausible as "the future."
3) Who exactly she is, isn't explained. The closest I can conjecture is that she's an "entity" of some sort, and she sealed up all the water, but why is never explained. All we do know is that water is very scarce, Hamdo is aware of what she holds, and knows what she looks like.

It may have been on animeondvd.com that she was described as a "Deus ex Machina" with her release of all the water at the end allowing the children to escape, and with the complete lack of further explanation as to what she is.
Unrelated:
Oh, I hadn't realized that anidb actually added links to the actual licensor. Too bad they list every DVD rip group to ever screw them over.

[Ilpalazzo-sama]

Ah NTHT. The one series I can't help but hold high in my collection but have never been able to watch again.
True...It's an awesome series, but rewatch it? Never.

1) Supposedly it takes place some time in the distant future. They're never too clear about it, and I can't really say that for certain considering how drastically different the environment is without any change in the people. An alternate universe is as plausible as "the future."
Thanks.
3) Who exactly she is, isn't explained. The closest I can conjecture is that she's an "entity" of some sort, and she sealed up all the water, but why is never explained. All we do know is that water is very scarce, Hamdo is aware of what she holds, and knows what she looks like.

It may have been on animeondvd.com that she was described as a "Deus ex Machina" with her release of all the water at the end allowing the children to escape, and with the complete lack of further explanation as to what she is.
Thanks again :)
Unrelated:
Oh, I hadn't realized that anidb actually added links to the actual licensor. Too bad they list every DVD rip group to ever screw them over.
Heh...didn't notice that.

Does anyone knows the answer to Question #2?

[harudasakurada]

Oooh, Now and Then, Here and There! I love it. I even wrote a paper comparing it to a basic mythological structure for a class this semester (for which I rewatched it... oh, it was so depressing).

For the second question:
I had the impression that it was the same time, so that Shu was basically pulled from his normal life, thrown into this terrible "future," and then brought back to his own world pretty impacted by what had happened. (So it makes you think about how he'll choose to live his life from now on, if it'll influence any major changes at all, and so on. Kind of like, "What will he do now?") I could be wrong though, since I wasn't paying that much attention to the background and didn't notive that the factory looked any different.

Also, more stuff about the setting and Lala-Ru:
It mentions that it's set in the future in the DVD description. However, I don't remember them specifying this in the actual series; when I started writing my aforementioned paper, I described it as an alternate universe until I luckily decided to read the back of the box set.

As for Lala-Ru, she mentions that she's been around for hundreds of thousands of years. Although it's never specified where she came from, she's this mortal albeit really long-living creature that has sort of stood by (and has been used by) humanity for ages.
For more of an interpretation of her character, in a sense, it's almost as if she's a natural resource, water in this case, that humans always end up taking for granted and then use for things such as war. Or, she could be any circumstance maltreated in this way. In my paper, I compared her role to that of the goddess, except that she's sort of a twisted version of that, since she has this power over the water in the pendant but people don't respect her for it. So she's also representing man wanting to take over religion, or man not giving any deities respect anymore (or man not respecting nature anymore). Most importantly, she's what causes the "cleansing" of the world, so to speak, at the end, bringing about the great "flood" along with her self-sacrifice.

[Forbin]

I liked this show but I couldn't believe in Shu. The troubles he went through for a girl he meets for a total of 15 seconds doesn't fly. And the amount of Damage he takes and just shrugs it off made me snort in disbelief. And finally, if they could teleport here, why not just steal the water?

[Ilpalazzo-sama]

I liked this show but I couldn't believe in Shu. The troubles he went through for a girl he meets for a total of 15 seconds doesn't fly. And the amount of Damage he takes and just shrugs it off made me snort in disbelief. And finally, if they could teleport here, why not just steal the water?
He was just too much involved into the case and he chose to try to help Lala Ru instead of running away, and he is not the type who gives up easily.

The teleporter could have been capabile to transport only a certain amount off mass, and they had to transport back the robots, and at least 4 (?) ppl. Also, the King wanted Lala Ru too, not just the water.

[Forbin]

He was just too much involved into the case and he chose to try to help Lala Ru instead of running away, and he is not the type who gives up easily.
I think the point I finally said this is full of crock was when they shot him in the leg and throw him the trash pit. 30 seconds later, he is up, around, and climbing the trash bin. I was like with a leg wound, he couldn't stand let alone be up and around.

I like a lot of anime both sad and happy, but having your life thrown away for someone you know for 15 seconds? Nahh. Give me Habane Renmei or Whispers of the Heart, or even SHUFFLE, all of those set up a reason that the main character is doing what they are doing, (Find meaning the the wings, Find the boy who checked out the book, find out what you really want in life), not, oh boy I'm on top of a smokestack, see some cute chick, and sacrifice myself for her incredible beauty in an otherwise Realistic Post Apocalyptic Earth I have seen.

[Tommy]

Ah NTHT. The one series I can't help but hold high in my collection but have never been able to watch again.


I couldn't agree more. I think this is one of the best series I've ever seen, It's definitly the saddest anime SERIES i've ever seen. Way sadder then Saikano. But I haven't watched it more then once.

I remember feeling so sad for the poor girl who was brought to that world and being raped by soldiers because they needed women to get pregnant. Something along those lines anyways. Very tragic.

[arias]

Ah NTHT. The one series I can't help but hold high in my collection but have never been able to watch again.


^ that probably sums it up entirely for me. I thought that while there were several flaws (including the all-irritating protagonist whose attitude didn't change throughout the series -- both a sign of great persisting consistency in turmoil and but also annoying when there's no change and growth), it was really quite a unique vision. It was also unrelenting, and very brutal, despite its art style.

I don't think I'll ever watch it again.

[Morgri]

I just finished the series and was deeply satisfied except for one thing. Why did they let LaLa Ru disappear!! I knew it was gonna happen, but I was hoping really hard that it wouldn't. Either way, I guess I can let my own imagination take over what happens next. If Shu ever sees LalaRu again, and what not.

It left me with so many questions, can anyone answer them?

Wow, I know it was a powerful series, but compared to some others it was very light. I look forward to watching it again so I can answer my questions.

I like a lot of anime both sad and happy, but having your life thrown away for someone you know for 15 seconds? Nahh. Give me Habane Renmei or Whispers of the Heart, or even SHUFFLE, all of those set up a reason that the main character is doing what they are doing, (Find meaning the the wings, Find the boy who checked out the book, find out what you really want in life), not, oh boy I'm on top of a smokestack, see some cute chick, and sacrifice myself for her incredible beauty in an otherwise Realistic Post Apocalyptic Earth I have seen.

Hmm, I don't think that's the point. Shu's whole reason for being in that world in the first place was just to rescue the girl -- therefore, everyday he wasn't able to get her -- or for that matter, know if she was dead or not -- he became more attached to her. I thought it was very sad -- the end -- because Shu's whole purpose was destroyed in the end by having LaLa Ru disappear; however, her last words imply that she could/would/will come back, to bad the series was that short.

[Jedai]

Wow, I know it was a powerful series, but compared to some others it was very light.

How so ? And which other series did you feel were more "heavy" ?

This serie is frankly amazing :twitch:, there's no gore, almost all the content is watchable by children... For they probably wouldn't understand most of the implicit extreme violence of the show . As said by others, this is probably the most disturbing anime I've ever watched (and I watched a lot). Of course realism isn't really a preoccupation in anime, but I disagree with those that think Shu is a shallow character, I encountered a few guys that were this optimistic. But even he is shaken by the end of the show, you can see that its optimism is becoming tainted of hopelessness (it's how I read his behavior at least).

As for LaLaRu, I will hazard a guess as to her nature : I think she is the water of the oceans, condensed and personified by a being that looks like an human but isn't really. As for the hundred of thousands of years, it might be she has only seen a bit of history, since this seems to be set *very* far in the future as shown by the size of the sun (if indeed we're still on earth), be it that we're in the expansion period of the sun or that Earth has been blow over closer to the sun. Her origin could be mystic (reaction of the Earth to protect itself from ultimate destruction ?), as well as scientific (to avoid the extinction of humanity on Earth ?) since water is a vital resource (as many countries are discovering in horror right now...) and a source of energy better than any others (as long as you have fusion).

Anyway, this anime definitely makes it on my "essential" list, though I probably won't watch it again (at least alone)... :heh:

--
Jedaï

[Dorfl]

The teleporter could have been capabile to transport only a certain amount off mass, and they had to transport back the robots, and at least 4 (?) ppl. Also, the King wanted Lala Ru too, not just the water.

Why couldn't they keep going back to get water? Get a couple of huge drums and a few soldiers, find the nearest river/standpipe and help yourselves. It should at least be enough to keep the fortress going, maybe even grow a few crops. I kept wondering why they never tried.

[gaguri]

Seems bit obvious to me. The world of Hellywood and the world that Shu used to live in is separated by billions of years (implied from opening). I would imagine that it takes a tremendous amount of energy to transport a group of robots and people. It was worth the risk the first time, since bringing back Lalaru can literally solve all their problem. My god, you can't seriously expect to get enough water (i.e. the amount Lalaru has given out when she saved Shu) from using this transport method.

Another point. These are all speculations based on absolutely no concrete facts. It's easy to say 'ow why can't they get water from this transport', and the answer is 'maybe because it would cost more to go forth and back trying to get necessary quantity'. Maybe it cost less and maybe it cost more, but common sense says that such a notion is certainly within a range of feasibilty in a fictional world, and I fail to understand how people can talk about the physics of a fictional world that we all know absolutely nothing about. Such useless speculations are absurd.

As for the show, it's a masterpiece. It's my absolute number one favourite anime of all time. Perhaps sentimental factor has a lot to do with it (being one of the first animes I saw), but anime doesn't get more powerful than this.

[Kirarakim]

I guess this is a little bump:

A lot of people complain that Shu's character is unrealistic but I always felt Shu was meant to be symbolic just as much as Lala Ru. In such horrible times as depicted by NTHT you would think that someone like Shu can't exist. Maybe they can't to that extreme but I think we would like to believe that their is still goodness and hope left in people even in the worst of time and that is what Shu symbolized for me.

As for Lala Ru I agree with Jedai's assesment.

It does make sense that Lala Ru is the embodient of the Ocean. If the Ocean or any form of mother nature was personified what would it think of human beings. Although of course this is never said so it's just speculation.

As for realism you have characters like Sara and Nabuca who I think are two of the most realistic characters I've seen in anime.

My only gripe with NTHT is I never understood how people let someone as cowardly and stupid as Hamado rise to power. I think the writers could have come up with a better villain.

[7Th]

In my opinion, Shu's extreme optimism was the key storytelling device for the thematic purpose of NTHT. The idea behind the script wasn't to create a generic essay on "the harsh reality behind human nature" but rather to sing an honest melody about the true soul that ties people together.

[bobjoemac]

Kirarakim Their have been TONS of crazy dictators that got into power through military coup's royalty or just desperate citizens. And the world of now and then definitly wasn't in the best state so I could easily see a crazy psychopath easily establishing power if he could do something simple like conquer areas with water etc.

[Kirarakim]

Kirarakim Their have been TONS of crazy dictators that got into power through military coup's royalty or just desperate citizens. And the world of now and then definitly wasn't in the best state so I could easily see a crazy psychopath easily establishing power if he could do something simple like conquer areas with water etc.

It's not the crazy part that bothers me, what bothers me is Hamado is afraid of his own shadow and is incompetent without his soldiers. I think it would have been more believable if someone was controlling Hamado and he was a puppet dictator.

[Forbin]

Nah , that part I can believe. People change after they get power and this was his. I bet he was pretty competent in the old days.

[Sumgai]

Yeah... When it comes to Hamdo, there's a whole past that we don't see in that world, but that's not what matters.

As for Shu, of course he's unrealistic but that's not the point. I think he's meant show how simple right and wrong actually is.

In contrast there's Nabuca, who deep in his heart wants to do the right thing, but faced with reality he has to make complicated decisions and justifications for doing wrong things. This is more like actual people; always rationalizing and weighing decisions, thinking of a way to justify bad or "evil" behavior, and somehow making it right. Making excuses like "I had no choice".

[hirahira]

I just started watching this anime again. Is it any good?

[FatPianoBoy]

If you like your anime cerebral, moving and depressing, you can't go wrong with this one.

[Lockgar]

I recently saw the anime Now and Then, Here and There. "Did the guy that made Hale Nochi Guu really make this? Seriously? This is the complete 180 of what he does! Unless if you read between the line and realize there was subtext about statutory rape, but that's beside the point." Thought this was a good place as any to ask this question, even though I found this forum site to be a bit off, with the racist-rants and promotion for sleeping with blood relatives, from a totally none related topic....

So is this site like 4chan?

Anyway, somehow I was reminded of the ending, Why did Lala Ru disappear at the end? They really made no mention that she would, so it seemed kind of a random last second idea. As, for example, they said, O crap, we need to tie up this loose end. Personally, I thought her disappearing was for the better, since things would probably get worse if she stayed, but that didn't make it seem less random.

[GreatTeacherKen]

haha this site isn't anything on the level of 4chan, so don't worry about that too much. :heh:

It's been a while since I watched it, but Lala-Ru disappeared because she more or less used up her power. Not to mention, it's fitting for her character development from someone who resented humanity using her to sacrificing herself for humanity.

[Lockgar]

haha this site isn't anything on the level of 4chan, so don't worry about that too much. :heh:

It's been a while since I watched it, but Lala-Ru disappeared because she more or less used up her power. Not to mention, it's fitting for her character development from someone who resented humanity using her to sacrificing herself for humanity.

Heh, ok, must have been bad luck then, I click on topic and all of a sudden, people are talking about sleeping with their sisters :confused: and how much they hate all people from *blanks*:confused:. Moving on! It was indeed very fitting, I also think more so, because, how the show seemed to imply, it was her fault the planet was in that state. Whether it was because she help the king's rise to power, or if she actually caused the entire planet to be a desert, I don't know. As well what you said.

They seemed to hint out that she would get really tried or really weak after using her powers, but being tried, and disappearing are two different things. The show was only 13 episodes long, so they most likely had that planned from the start, but it just seemed spontaneous.

[Kirarakim]

About La La Ru

La La Ru disappeared because she sacrificed herself to give water back to the planet.

[Dam Dog]

The first part of this post is my mini-review, free of major spoilers. The second half may contain some spoilers, as it deals with discussion of the show.

http://i39.tinypic.com/no7gn9.png
Lala-Ru and Shu. I'll leave it to you to guess which is which.

Part the First: The Review
Thar be no spoilers here, cap'n

Now here's a goody.

I can't recommend it for everybody, of course. Now and Then, Here and There easily ranks among the saddest animes I have ever seen, as well as one of the most disturbing. It is, however, an EXCELLENT show.

The story was apparently written after the director read about the situation in Africa, specifically Rwanda and the use of child soldiers. That is, essentially, what Now and Then, Here and There is about, along with a number of other heavy themes, including some oldies such as environmentalism and a dose of 'hope conquers all'.

The story follows Shu, an early-teen-something (call it 12-15, he has no official age that I know of, but he seems to be either an elementary or middle schooler) who seems to live a more or less everyday life. The first episode, indeed, seems to hint that the show will be some sort of silly shounen thing.

First-Episode spoilers ahoy! (not that anybody cares about those)

Shu decides that he's going to take a detour one day, and spots a girl sitting on top of a smokestack. He decides that this warrants investigation and climbs up the smokestack of an abandoned factory scheduled for demolition (which kind of gives you a hint as to his personality). His attempts to talk with the girl are met with silence, despite throwing things at her and yelling until he gets her attention. She simply points at the sunset, getting the message across that she's not interested in conversation, at which point Shu starts a monologue. Eventually Shu gets her name, Lala-Ru.

Eventually a portal opens in mid air and the two find themselves being attacked by some rather interesting robots as well as one Abelia. Lala-Ru gets grabbed, but manages to mouth 'save me' to Shu.

Shu, being the prepubescent badass he is, grabs a handy weapon (a stick) and proceeds to take on the robots, demolishing a chunk of the factory in the process.

However, the robots and Abelia manage to reactivate the portal and everybody vanishes in a flash of light, along with the remaining smokestacks.

The series hints that the action of the 'then and there' portion takes place some ten BILLION years in the future, possibly on Earth, as indicated by the massive size and red coloration of the sun. This, of course, leads to some questions about why humans haven't evolved at all and such, but that doesn't matter. I'm willing to suspend some disbelief.

Despite all the sadness and disturbingness, Now and Then, Here and There has a quite satisfying ending. A very sad, but excellent conclusion to a very sad, but excellent, show. You will cry. Trust me on that.

My honest and solid recommendation is that anybody with the stomach for it obtain this anime. There's a dub version, but it's fairly heavily cut, although it allows you to pick up some more of the nuances of the main badguy's speech much more easily than those who might have some grasp of Japanese.

BE WARNED: Although not exactly violent (I recall that there was only one scene with lots of blood in it), this show contains scenes of murder, kidnapping, slavery, implied rape, the consequences of said rape, and one dead cat.
Like all the best horror, they let your brain do the work. This show is definitely full of 'holy shit' moments.



Part the Second: Discussion
Warning, spoilers ho!

Possibly the most disturbing thing about this show, besides the murder and rape and such, is the way the children are bent to Hamdo's will. This is frequently mentioned, but I feel it's worth discussing.

Hamdo is obviously totally bonkers. Not only are there bats in his belfry, he's got them in his nave, font, quire and sanctuary. He's pretty much a cathedral run by bats. But he's not stupid, as far as his crippling paranoia and madness allow him to be.

His 'recruitment program' involves sending lots of soldiers out to nearby villages, kidnapping everybody fit to work, and then demolishing the villages as they leave. The men and boys become soldiers, and the children are fanatically loyal, although not in the normal way. Take, for instance, Shu's squad leader. He's convinced himself that he'll get to go home once Hamdo rules the world, even if he really knows, deep down, that there's no home left. Another boy in Shu's squad is in it for power, and has plans to replace Hamdo some day.

The girls are all kept as well. They get handed out to good soldiers. I'm sure I don't need to go into details. Hamdo uses this to keep his soldiers happy and maintain a fresh supply of slaves.

While I felt, early on, a tiny pang of sympathy for Hamdo because of how utterly crazy he was, he rapidly worked his way to the top of my 'most hated' list, when I realized that while Abelia is certainly a bitch, she at least isn't a COMPLETE monster.
She's even redeemed at the end of the show. The only bad guy that survives, as I recall.
Still, Shu smashing that stick to bits over Hamdo's back was a great scene. I loved it. It gave some satisfaction after all the terrible things Hamdo's done, to see somebody finally give him a good beating.


Lala-Ru herself is one of the most pitiable and sad characters I have ever personally encountered. While it's never explained exactly what she is, it is apparent that it's not human. She claims, at one point, to be 'tens of thousands of years old', and that's just what she remembers. I have seen discussions which indicate she may well be the very personification of the near-dead planet itself.
So, for those tens of thousands of years, she's wandered, alone, without friends, being treated as an object or a resource, fought over, killed for, and possibly even raped, at least at the hands of Hamdo.
Shu may well be the only person to have treated her as a friend, or even something other than an object, in THOUSANDS of years.
The fact that she was willing to sacrifice herself for his sake, and for the sake of all the people Shu wished to save makes the ending of Now and Then, Here and There one of the most beautiful I have ever witnessed.

Ah, my eyes are watering even now. I need to go blow my nose.

Anyway, while I'm doing that, discussion is welcome. If you happen to agree or disagree, or wish to bring up some other subject, do so, by all means.

[Guardian Enzo]

Thinking about this series, I'm reminded of the sign John Laroquette had on the wall of his office on his sitcom - "This is a dark ride".

[FireChick]

Edit: all deleted due to my senseless retardation.

[Veritas]

Saw it several years ago, and it's very heavy as you say. However, as time went on it just annoyed me for reasons I can't remember all that clearly anymore. The primary one was how lame and senseless a villian Hamdo was, and then the treatment of Nabuca and Sara. It's not a very well-crafted story.

[Forbin]

Correction

I didn't lke this at all because of the unkillable hero.

[drobertbaker]

Yeah, Now and Then, Here and There is right up there on the brutality scale. My favorite recollection is how the guy remains optimistic and good hearted through everything. Like when he's being tortured, he says "Hey, c'mon now, what'd you do that for!"

For REAL brutality and child abuse, you have to jump up to the works of Mohiro Kitoh - Narutaru (Shadow Star here) and Bokura no, especially the manga. It still makes me want to throw up when I think of what that gangster "Piggy" did to that one kid.

Elfen Lied will tear your heart out too.

[Statonxyb]

It's a great series but can be difficult to watch for some, due to the themes. However, it did a good job at showing us how painful and hard it is for those who go through such abuse. I also agree it lost its luster in the end, but I felt the ending was a nice little wrap up.

[Zwei]

I added this to my watch list today, thinking it was just your regular shounen anime series. I guess you really can't judge a book by it's cover. Now that I'm reading the comments, it definitely did jump out some ranks on what to watch next so I might give it a go soon.

[Aquifina]

I saw most of this show as a dub on SyFy (as a dub, it's actually above average, I think), which just finished airing, and am happy I missed some of the eps in the middle that probably would have upset me the most.

In terms of narrative logic, the show really doesn't work, but it's definitely powerful in terms of its emotional register (I think this is true of much anime, although this takes that trait to something of an extreme).

I for one was rather stunned when LaLaRu just disappeared, although in retrospect I shouldn't have been surprised. The ending "fit"--it was a proper close to the story. And as sad as her departure was, Shu gave her a measure of real happiness, shortly before she left. Indeed, Shu seemed so terribly alone at the end, which seemed unjust, since he was the one who saved the alternate world through sheer force of will, but as melancholic as it seemed for him to go back alone, I also think he'll be fine.

[Master_Yoma]

I do not like this anime the main character is annoying as hell and the villain is just so pathetic