Learning Japanese

[gravitation]

I thought it would have been done already but alas no. There may be people who are not able to get lessons so here is where you come!! I am still learning japanese and have ALOT more to learn...so I am going to say a few basic things and maybe some other people who speak or are learning it can contribute ^_^!

*~~::Okey a few notes::~~*

++As you most probably know, the japanese people are really big on manners so you have to be careful when you speak.

++Dictionary form verbs (verbs straight from the dictionary) can be rude when your speaking to people, especially elders!

++There are 3 levels of politeness (roughly anyway); there is low (dictionary), medium (the standard which lots of people use) which involves adding "masu" on words (dont worry at the moment) and the highest level of politeness which I don't know much about but adding "gozaimasu" on to the end of arigatou is being really polite ^_^

++There are 4 styles of writing...not sure if i should say styles but anyway...theres is Kanji(typical jap symbols), hiragana, romaji (english letters) and katakana...i only know hiragana at the moment but i will learn the othes eventually.

++This has nothing to do with learning Japanese but i was told by my tutour that if ya have your chop sticks facing somebody it means you want them dead...lol! thats why they have them horizontally.

++In japanese to signify that its the end of the sentence they have "desu".

++Also lots of japanese words like "desu" and "masu" end with "u"...most japanese people dont pronounce the "u" so "desu" spoken would be "des" but of course there are some parts of japan in which they do pronounce it...its your choice. In lots of animes they pronounce the "u" i think they do it coz it sounds cute sometimes ^_^

*~~::Lets start with simple things::~~*
1 = ichi (some ppl say ich)
2 = ni
3 = san
4 = shi/yon
5 = go (o is pronounced like the "o" in rob...soz thats all i can think of)
6 = roku
7 = nana/shishi
8 = hachi
9 = Ku (there is supposed to be a line above the "u"..its pronounced like "q"
10 = jyu

*~~::Greetings::~~*
Hello = kon nichi wa
goodbye = Sayonara (line above the "o")
yes = hai
no = ie (ie also means house ^_^)
thank you = arigato
Pleased to meet you = Yoroshiku (used on this board alot ^_^)
excuse me (attention) = Shitsurei
Sorry = sumimasen or gomenasai or gomen

*~~::NEXT LESSON::~~*...when i have done my homework
Subjects (like people...you, i, mum, etc)
Simple tourist questions
Questions
Days of the week
Animals

*~~::NEXT NEXT LESSON::~~*
alphabets
simple sentence structure
objects (car, window etc)
verbs(dictionary form)

and there will be more lessons which will teach ya how to convert dictionary form verbs to polite form....and also how to change the tense...but lets stick with the basics for now ^_^
P.S i most probably made some mistakes so ya can just tell me and i will fix em ^_^

[hhaamu]

Note: I'm not 100% sure about every one of these, but I'll try.


9 = Ku (there is supposed to be a line above the "u"..its pronounced like "q"
kyuu or the kyû you mentioned


10 = jyu
juu


Hello = kon nichi wa
Spelled "konnichiha" when in kana, but "konnichiwa" is just as correct when still in romaji.


goodbye = Sayonara (line above the "o")
Basically, ô (or line above the "o", as you like to call it), is a long o, which can be romanized as "ou", "oh" or "ô". I prefer the last method.


no = ie (ie also means house ^_^)
iie


thank you = arigato
arigatô (line above the "o") or arigatou. Also, there are about a dozen other ways of saying "thank you".


Well, those are the minor mistakes I found.

[gravitation]

thanx! ^_^

[Megane]

kyuu or the kyû you mentioned


Ku is acceptable. I was told that this was because kyuu can also mean "suffering", but I have yet to validate this source. Kinda like how for 4, yon is favoured sometimes over shi because shi also means "death". What a happy number system.

[samir85]

Hey good introduction into Japenese !

I'm not able to speak Japanese so please don't blame me for my questions :D
It's because I'm thinking of learning Japense, but until I make this decision I'm not going to invest any money into tools to learn Japanese.
So I've been looking around to find some free websites wich can translate between English and Japenese, there are a bunch of them into my language avaible, but I didn't find any of these for Japense ! Maybe one of you know one?

Please excuse me for my bad English, but the English I learn here in school does'nt seem to be good if I compare to you guys. ;)

[gravitation]

no your english is pretty good ^_^ i know a site which can translate from japanese to english or english to japanese ^_^ : http://babelfish.altavista.com/ if that doesnt work just go to altavista.com and click translate ^_^ good luck Ganbatte (good luck in japanese)

[gravitation]

Kinda like how for 4, yon is favoured sometimes over shi because shi also means "death". What a happy number system. lol! yeah ^_^

[Segahekui]

counting over ten:

11: ju-ichi
12: ju-ni
13: ju-san
(you get the point up to 19 right?)

20: ni ju
21: ni ju ichi
22: ni ju san
(same rythym)

30: san ju
40: shi/yon ju
50: hachi ju
(once again, follow the rythym)

100: hyaku
200: nihyaku
-irregulars-
300: sanbyaku
600: roppyaku
800: happyaku


1000: sen
2000: ni sen
3000: san sen

10,000: ichi man
20k: ni man
30k: san man

100,000: hyaku man
200,000: ni hyaku man

10,000,000: is sen man
20,000,000: ni sen man

there ya go.. hope u can peice the peices together.. if not just ask if u intend to go to japan u need to learn high numbers cuz everything costs a lot of digits!

ps: ku is acceptable for nine

[gravitation]

*~~WELCOME TO LESSON 2~~*

This lesson will include the following:
Subjects (like people...you, i, mum, etc)
Simple tourist questions
Questions & Answers
Days of the week
Animals
*~~SUBJECTS~~*
I = Watashi (watashi wa)*Watashi is considered the female one*
I = Boku (boku wa) *Boku is the male version*
You = Anata
Mother = Okāsan or Haha which is used when its YOUR mother.
Father = Otōsan or ChiChi which is used when its YOUR father.
Friend = tomodachi, ive also seen it on the net as otomodachi.
Teacher = sensei
Dog = inu
England = Igirisu (i think)
Grandmother = soba (which also means noodles)
Grandfather = sofu
of course you need to remember that there are lots of other names/words used aswell as these

*~~SIMPLE TOURIST QUESTIONS~~*
*!NOTE! when something is a question they add a ka at the end, we use a question mark.*

Do you speak english? = eigo wo hana shimasu ka

How much is _______? = ______ ikura desu ka

Where is ________? = ________wa doko desu ka

*~~QUESTIONS & ANSWERS~~*

What is your name? = onamae wa nan desu ka

My name is ________. =watashi no namae wa ________ desu.

How old are you? = nan sai desu ka

I am ___ = ___ sai desu

What are you doing?! = nani o shimasu ka

*~~DAYS OF THE WEEK~~*

Sunday = nichi yobi (line above the o's in the yobi's)
Monday = getsu yobi
Tuesday = ka yobi
Wednesday = sui yobi
Thursday = moku yobi
Friday = kin yobi
Saturday = do yobi

*~~ANIMALS~~*

Cat = neko
Dog = inu
Mouse = nezumi
Duck = kamo
Horse = uma
Dragon = ryuu (ryu with a line above the "u" lines extend the sound)

Once again there are most likely to be words which are used aswell as these ^_^

*~~NEXT LESSON~~*
alphabets simple sentence structure objects (car, window etc) verbs(dictionary form)Bye for now and i hope this helps ya when you are learning japanese ^_^ Ganbatte!

[gravitation]

Segahekui thanx! i should have done that, when ya learn the basic numbers the rest is pretty easy ^_^

[dot_rain]

I really appreciate your work since I wanted to learn Japanese when I was young , but I have not got a chance yet . Anyway , I'll learn it for sure ^_^ , hope someday we can speak in Japanese .
dot_rain

[Ducati_nut]

Hello, I'm also currently taking 1st semester japanese. I have one question about your introductory notes.

++In japanese to signify that its the end of the sentence and i guess its kinda polite they have "desu".

I'm confused, can you explain this topic more clearly. I thought desu was a conjugated verb (to be), does it also function as a politeness suffix?

[gravitation]

lol im not to sure, i just have a tutour and i dont even get her much but nah i dont really think that desu is more polite, may be tho, i will edit that part of the post soz ^_^
Thanx by the way dot_rain lol ^_^:p :D
o yeah Ducati_nut and anyone else why dont u teach stuff aswell!!! it doesnt have to be tons but just small things or what eva really ^_^ im sure it will help sumone!

as for the desu thing lol, you most probably know more than me, i just thought it was to signify that u had finished the sentence lol. Why dont ya tell us coz im not good at explaining anyway ^_^

[Sakura-chan]

I'm confused, can you explain this topic more clearly. I thought desu was a conjugated verb (to be), does it also function as a politeness suffix?
Desu never was politeness suffix. It began to be one today, when Gravitation posted it.
Gravitation, make sure that what are you posting here is right, nee.

[gravitation]

sumimasen! >_< i edited it anyway ^_^

[p3psi]

instead of "do you speak english" or japanese or whatever, you can say:

"Do you understand english?":anata wa(anata means "you", but not really necessary becuase its assumed) , iego ga wakarimaska?
remember when pronouncing, i="e" and e="eh"
i think im telling you the right way to read and prounce romanji.

another point is that to make a question sentence, you add "ka" at the end of you sentence.

"Do you understand japanese?" nihongo ga wakarimaska?

answer: "yes, i understand a little" Hai, (iego/nihongo ga) sukoshi wakarimasu.

or "yes, i understand" Hai, wakarimasu

or, "yes, i know" hai, shite emasu

or, "no, i dont understand" iie, (iego/nihongo ga) wakarimasen.

you will notice that all the name of languages in japanese end in "go".

I'll post a vocab list of the rest of the languages later if i have time

now, to ask someone if he or she is American or Japanese:

this time, you kinda really need to use "anata" (you) when asking for nationality.

are you american?
Anata wa, Americagin desuka?
are you japanese?
Anata wa, Nihongin desuka?

answer "yes, i am"
Hai, so desu.

answer "no, i am not american/japanese"
iie, americagin ja arimasen.
iie, nihongin ja arimasen.

notice that "gin" (prounounced "jean") is at the end of the each of the nationality.


hope i didnt make any mistakes, ill add some more to this thread later.

[Akkarael]

Thanks for the language tips, everyone! I hardly know a useful thing about Japanese, though I'd love to learn.

A quick question - In tourist vocab lists (and p3psi's post above), "wakarimasen" is listed as "I don't understand," but I've noticed a lot of anime characters use "wakaranai" to mean the same thing. Am I hearing it incorrectly or is it an example of one of those politeness vs. dictionary verb things?

[gravitation]

lol nah ya didnt hear wrong, ive heard both aswell but im not sure of the difference >_< soz, i was taught that wakarimasen meant "i dont know" but maybe its got other meanings that change slightly...and wakaranai i hear in animes and it means "i dont understand" i think
??anybody help us??

[Segahekui]

its a matter of formalness
wakaranai= negative normal
wakata= under-formal "i understand"
wakarimasu= masu form (normal formality)
wakarimashita= implies he has understand and will carry out task
kashikomarimashita= same as above but reall formal

all are based of the verb wakar.u - to understand

[skillosopher]

counting over ten:

11: ju-ichi
12: ju-ni
13: ju-san
(you get the point up to 19 right?)

20: ni ju
21: ni ju ichi
22: ni ju san
(same rythym)

30: san ju
40: shi/yon ju
50: hachi ju
(once again, follow the rythym)
awesome thread! exactly what we needed around here. but i have a few questions. for the number 4, when do we say shi, and when do we say yon. surely they must have appropriate usages. for instance...yondaime = shidaime?

and...for 22. if 20 = ni ju, and 21 = ni ju ichi, then why does 22 = ni ju san? shouldnt 22 = ni ju ni? like 199 = hayku kyu ju kyu?

help!

[p3psi]

awesome thread! exactly what we needed around here. but i have a few questions. for the number 4, when do we say shi, and when do we say yon. surely they must have appropriate usages. for instance...yondaime = shidaime?

and...for 22. if 20 = ni ju, and 21 = ni ju ichi, then why does 22 = ni ju san? shouldnt 22 = ni ju ni? like 199 = hayku kyu ju kyu?

help!

well for instance, for time:
4 o'clock--you never say "shi ji", you say "yo ji"
and for 9 o'clock, you don say "kyou ji" you say "ku ji"
those are the two exceptions for time

however, for months
january = ichi gatsu
february= ni gatsu
march =san gatsu
april = shi gatsu
september = ku gatsu
again, those two, 4 and 9, are the exceptions

but as a general rule, i suggest you just use "yon" for most cases when you're not sure, except of course for "april".

also, for age, turning 20 in japan is like turning 21 in america, its really special.
so only for the age of 20, you say "ha ta chi", not "ni ju sai"

also, its a mistake that he wrote "ni ju san" for 22, your rights, its "ni ju ni". "ni ju san" =23

wow, it seems that i know more japanese than what i thought i knew. :heh:

[Ducati_nut]

Since we should know the numbers by now, let's learn how to tell time.


NEW Vocabulary you'll need to know:
gogo = P.M.
gozen = A.M.
-ji = o'clock (suffix)
nan = what (short for nani)
ima = now
han = half


important particle markers you'll need to know:
Note about particles: Particles are placed after words in japanese. In english particles are placed in front of the words. For example in english we would say, "from 2 o'clock". In japanese we say,"ni-ji kara". We do not say kara ni-ji.
kara = from
made = until
wa = as for (subject marker)

example of particle usage:
Japanese: Kent-san wa amerika-jin desu.
English1: As for Mr. Kent, he is an american. <or>
English2: Mr. Kent is an american.

(note that particles are always placed after the word they modify)


Telling time
Ichi-ji = 1 o'clock
Ni-ji = 2 o'clock
San-ji = 3 o'clock
Yo-ji = 4 o'clock Note: Irregular, it is Yo-ji. Not yon-ji and Not shi-ji
Go-ji = 5 o'clock
Roku-ji = 6 o'clock
Shichi-ji = 7 o'clock Note: Shichi-ji. Not nana-ji
Hachi-ji = 8 o'clock
Ku-ji = 9 o'clock Note: ku-ji. Not Kyuu-ji
Juu-ji = 10 o'clock
Juuichi-ji = 11 o'clock
Juuni-ji = 12 o'clock

To specify A.M. or P.M. simply add gozen or gogo in front of the time.
Examples:
Japanese: Gogo ni-ji desu.
English: It is 2 o'clock P.M.

Japanese: Gozen ku-ji desu.
English: It is 9 o'clock A.M.

To say 1:30 simply add han after the time.
Examples:
Japanese: Ichi-ji han desu.
English: It is 1:30

An example using everything we know so far:
Japanese: Gogo yo-ji han desu.
English: It is 4:30 P.M.

Now to indicate from a certain time or until a certain time simply add kara or made after the time.

Example:Japanese: Ichi-ji kara desu.
English: from 1 o'clock

Japanese: Ni-ji han made desu.
English: until 2:30


Basic sentences
Japanese: Ima nan-ji desu ka
English: What time is it now?

Japanese: Best Buy wa nan-ji kara desu ka.
English1: From what time does best buy open? <or>
English2: What time does Best Buy open?
Japanese response: Gozen ku-ji kara desu.
English1: (it opens) from 9 A.M. <or>
English2: It opens at 9 A.M.

Japanese: Best Buy wa nan-ji made desu ka.
English1: Until what time is best buy open? <or>
English2: When does Best Buy close?
Japanese response: Gogo juu-ji made desu.
English1: (it is open) until 10 P.M. <or>
English2: It closes at 10 P.M.

Japanese: Best Buy wa nan-ji kara nan-ji made desu ka.
English1: From what time, until what time, is best buy open? <or>
English2: When does Best Buy open and close?
Japanese response: Best Buy wa gozen ku-ji kara gogo juu-ji made desu.
English: Best Buy is open from 9 A.M. until 10 P.M.



Notes: English 1 is a more literal translation of what is said in japanese. English 2 is a more natural way of saying it in english.

P.S. Everything I wrote is from my memory of Peterson-sensei's class. If I made any mistakes please contact me and I will fix them. I want to be as accurate as possible so that it will be beneficial to people. I had lots of fun writing this up, and as a side affect, it helped me refresh my memory of telling time. In the future I might modify this post so that it will become more clear, and perhaps add Test Questions to it. I will definately add more at a later time, it is currently 12 am and I gotta wake up early tomorrow... err today...

[Megane]

I would suggest that those who are actually keen on teaching Japanese here, should be avoiding romaji and using kana as much as possible. It's detrimental to the learning process otherwise. For those running Windows, install the Japanese Input method and switch your broswer encoding to Shift_JIS.

[p3psi]

Ducati_nut I think your sentences are incorrect, i think you need to use the verb open="akeru".


I would suggest that those who are actually keen on teaching Japanese here, should be avoiding romaji and using kana as much as possible. It's detrimental to the learning process otherwise. For those running Windows, install the Japanese Input method and switch your broswer encoding to Shift_JIS.


ok, if we did this, we got to teach them the alpabet first.

these are just links i picked off a search engine, if you find a better alphabet, like one that has sound, post it!

hiragana-http://www.genki-online.com/kyozai/hiragana.html
katakana-http://www.genki-online.com/kyozai/katakana.html

do what ever you have to do to memorize these, wether its flash cards, or a computer game. It should take about a week of practice for each to recall with ease and confidence. It also depends on how your study habits are, so it could take longer or shorter for you to get these down pat.

since this is begginer japanese, dont worry about learning kanji right now, hopefully we'll get to that later.

basically, when you use katakana, its for words taken form other langauges, and you will notice that a lot of these words are from the english langauge.
also, non-japanese names are written in katakana.
I think japanese names can be written either way.
so most of you, when you write your name in japanese, it should be in katakana.

dont worry about what vocab word is written in which, becuase when you memorize them, they will be given in either the correct hirgana or katakana

to keep track of where your progress should be, if you've been following and practicing so far
You should be able to:
Count numbers up to the hundered of thousands.
NOTICE, you can count numbers, not count things or people yet.
e.g. You cannot say "3 apples" as "san ringo".
this is going to be slightly complicated because it matters on what type of object you're talking about and what counter you use. therefore, this will be in a later lesson so dont worry about it now :D.

Basic greetings such as konichiwa.
Asking someone if they speak/know a language.
Asking someone thier nationality.
Days of the week, but not dates of the month yet.
Telling whole number time, like 4:00 and 4:30, but not 4:35
I'll add how to say 4 hours and 12 mins, for example, in my next post.


AFter this post, no more romanji form me! i will only post in hiragna and japanese, so you guys should study them :D

[Shii]

You should note that subjects are often omitted in Japanese, so "watashi ha" and "boku ha" are not really that necessary.

Right:
Mihama Chiyo desu, yoroshiku onegai shimasu!
WRONG:
Watashi ha Mihama Chiyo desu, yoroshiku onegai shimasu!

(vocab: "yoroshiku" etc. is a standard statement of introduction, when you are introduced to the Emperor please say yoroshiku onegai itashimasu)

[PiGGiEE]

so what books do you recommend in learning japanese? i wanna learn but don't even know where to start or what books are good.
hmmmm... perhaps... taking classes would be better since there is someone there to help with my pronunciations...

[gravitation]

yeah classes would be ALOT better, but books...ermm a dictionary thats pretty good...and im not sure about others coz here in england they dont have many japanese books... i could just about find a dictionary! and its not even good

[Shii]

Yeah, I have found the best books for learning Japanese are actually textbooks. :p Taking a class is the best options.

[hamiko_san]

10 things more, you never know.

[gravitation]

kare(he)/kanojyo(she) wa kawaii to omoimasu.
I think he/she is cute ^_^

[monpuchi]

Aitsu chotto tii bii esu da kedo, demo are, ne, totemo jozu na no yo!　

Ano eichi bii mita ka yo? Oe!　

Suzuko wa ano doressu de hakike ga suru hodo busu datta!　

Omae no suke supa eirian da zo!　


its pointless to put down a bunch of sentences and their meanings unless you explain what the parts of the sentences translate as

[Kempis Curious]

its pointless to put down a bunch of sentences and their meanings unless you explain what the parts of the sentences translate as

Well, it's not completely pointless, but it does help to do a middle translation too. The best Learning Japanese book I've read did this and it really helped:

"Kore wa juu desu ka?"
"This (subj.) gun is (qstn)?"
"Is this a gun?"

It's a good tool for memorizing the particles like "no" and "o" and such. If all the subtitled anime that I've watched did that I'd be able to speak Japanese by now. ^_^ Sheesh, I've watched over 700 of them so far and all I know are mostly single words and short phrases. :( Kuso! Bakayaro! Urusei!!!

-k

[[Titan]]

based on the first post (and watching too much anime) I would say

"Watashi wa" means "I am" (but wasn't this the female form, and wasn't the male form something like "Boku wa"?)
"desu" would imply the end of a sentence
"desu ka" implies a question
"kore wa" means you're talking about a thing or object; "this is"
"anata wa" means "you are"

so that's what I've "learned" from just the first post. But... is it correct? :)

questions I still have after the first post:

-Is it really necessary to end a sentence with "desu"?
-are there differences when the person who's talking is male of female?
-if you are talking to a person, does it matter if that person is male of female?
-Do I sound like a three year old girl when I say those sentences to a japanese person?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being negative about your thread, but I think providing more information on grammar, sentence structure and meanings of words would make this thread a lot more usefull. :)

[Sakura-chan]

I = Watashi (watashi wa)*Watashi is considered the female one*
I = Boku (boku wa) *Boku is the male version*

I'm confused... @_@ Wasn't boku kids' version? And ore male version? :help:
If it's not, then why Chise laughs when Shuji calls himself boku(Saishuheiki kanoujou)? @____@ :help:

[gravitation]

yeah watashi = i and is conisdered to be female
boku wa = i and is considered to be more male, yeah i think that it is for kids and ore is the male one for guys ^_^

[gravitation]

its not neccesary to say desu after everything but it signifys that you have finished speaking ^_^

[hamiko_san]

10 things more, you never know.

[dot_rain]

omg , gotta love it even though me don't understand ^o^
ps : we really need to know how to pronounce them .

Edit : added ps

[zalas]

']based on the first post (and watching too much anime) I would say

"Watashi wa" means "I am" (but wasn't this the female form, and wasn't the male form something like "Boku wa"?)
"desu" would imply the end of a sentence
"desu ka" implies a question
"kore wa" means you're talking about a thing or object; "this is"
"anata wa" means "you are"

so that's what I've "learned" from just the first post. But... is it correct? :)

questions I still have after the first post:

-Is it really necessary to end a sentence with "desu"?
-are there differences when the person who's talking is male of female?
-if you are talking to a person, does it matter if that person is male of female?
-Do I sound like a three year old girl when I say those sentences to a japanese person?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being negative about your thread, but I think providing more information on grammar, sentence structure and meanings of words would make this thread a lot more usefull. :)

Um.. 'watashi wa' is simply a phrase saying that one of the subjects in the sentence is 'watashi' or 'I'. The wa is particle denoting that the word/phrase in front of it is the subject of the sentence (in the sense that it would be a subject in an English sentence, but the predicate is much more important that what the subject was, AFAIK).

boku is a masculine first person pronoun, whereas atashi is a feminine first person pronoun. You'll notice in Kanon that Ayu uses 'boku' and hence is more of a tomboy.

The closest correlation to the 'am' in 'I am' would probably be the 'desu' (polite form of da, the copula). However, that's not a totally correct description, since I believe the copula da is just used to indicate a statement. A 'ka' appended to the end of a sentence implies a question, and can be appended to verbs as well as the copula.

If you used subjects in all of your sentences, you'll probably sound more like a student learning Japanese than a three year old. I think in everyday speech, people tend to omit subjects (which is why translation can be so annoying at times).

And yeah, there's definitely differences in speech between masculine and feminine people. For example, there was this navy guy who married a Japanese girl. For a while everyone thought he was gay because he picked up his Japanese from her. Thinks like appending 'wa' after a sentence like 'Atashi wa sugoku nemui desu wa' implies some sort of feminity, though probably more in the regal sense. Also things like watakushi, instead of watashi, etc. Males tend to use rougher speech and use subjects like ore (which is kinda egotistical). And I was told to not use 'ja ne' too much since I was a guy ~_~

Seriously though, if you're really interested in Japanese, pick up a book, or better yet attend classes. Getting indirect tutoring from someone still taking Japanese runs the risk of contracting his/her bad habits. Then when you really decide to take Japanese, you'd have to unlearn all of those.

: "Sore wa kechappu desu ka?" ("Is that ketchup?")
: "Iie, kore wa chi desu. Atashi no chi desu." ("No, this is blood. My blood.")

Is it just me, or does that remind people of Hyatt from Excel Saga?

[Shii]

Watashi wa unagi desu.
You read the OP and you think this is "I am an eel"? No, no, bad.
As for me, it's [I'll have] eel. Ordering food!

Nasty people teaching that "wa" marks the subject. You fail at Japan :(

If you went to a restaurant you would be confused!

"Watashi wa Haruna desu." = I am Haruna.
(This is WRONG)

Uh... no... "I am Haruna" would be translated "Haruna desu". "Watashi wa" is a whole new clause: "As for me, I'm Haruna", as if a line of characters were being introduced. If we were greeting each other and you said, "Watashi wa gaijin desu", I might look around for your friends. You would also be a girl (for using "watashi" colloquially).

And "I am a cat" is translated "Wahagai wa neko dearu", of course ;)

[Wandering A.I.]

>so that's what I've "learned" from just the first post. But... is it correct?

watashi can be used by either sex, it's more polite/distant than boku as well. I use watashi at class and boku with friends, but I'm still learning, so whatever. ^^

Technically desu is a contracted (from de arimasu) copula (in present, polite form) which basically means two things are equal. Google it if you really care, but you can just translate it as "is". It's not a verb per se, but verbs come at the end of a sentence in Japanese which is why your guess for wa is wrong. Like said above, in anime you'll hear da a lot more often which is the regular, not as polite/distant, form.

ka is the question particple, wa is the topic marker. So anata wa in isolation is probably better translated as "as for you..." or "concerning you..." since it isn't necessarily the subject, but can be. Uh, I don't want to explain the whole topic/subject marker bit. Try this page ^^:
http://japaneseculture.about.com/library/weekly/aa051301a.htm

*shudders at the horror of so much Japanese in roomaji above*

[Wandering A.I.]

Oops, if I had refreshed and seen zalas' post I wouldn't have had to do anything. ^^ Also...

>Seriously though, if you're really interested in Japanese, pick up a book, or better yet attend classes.

I completely agree.

[zalas]

yeah watashi = i and is conisdered to be female
boku wa = i and is considered to be more male, yeah i think that it is for kids and ore is the male one for guys ^_^
Actually watashi is neutral
Atashi/watakushi is feminine
boku and ore are both masculine forms. I think the reason Chise was laughing might be because ore is more 'macho-ish' and/or egotistical and you probably would end up using ore in everyday informal speech. An extreme case of this (and probably in jest) is that in Revery Earth (the manga), one of the male characters refers to himself as 'ore-sama' since -sama denotes prestige and is usually used when you are talking/referring to someone of much higher stature than yourself. (Fans will do this sometimes of their favorite creators) It has about the equivalent level of 'lord'.

[zalas]

Can someone merge these Japanese threads -.-. We don't need like 10 million separate threads on Japanese.

[p3psi]

p3psi's first offical japanese lesson for you guys :heh:

I dont want to seem like im taking over Gravy's thread here, but for those of you who want me to teach virtually straight out of my old Japanese I textbook, chapter by chapter, you can follow my posts here, and get reinforcement from Gravy's and who ever else posts lessons here.

ok here, i found a hiragana alphabet with sound, http://sp.cis.iwate-u.ac.jp/sp/lesson/j/doc/kana.html

there's a quiz at the bottom of the page, but i havent tried it yet.

here's katakana with sound
http://www.tokyowithkids.com/fyi/katakana_chart.html

These links will show you stroke order, i.e. how to write them.
hiragana- http://www.genki-online.com/kyozai/hiragana.html
katakana- http://www.genki-online.com/kyozai/katakana.html

GO PRACTICE NOW!!!!11!!!, I will give you one week to study, just get most of them down pat, reading vocab words and sentences will reninforce you when we start the lessons.

Make sure you read out loud AND write each one.



Dont worry about kanji now, we will start kanji later.

Like i said before, ill be posting only in hiragana and katakana from now on, and only list romanji for hard pronounciations.

I dont know about Gravy and the other guys, but i think it would be benifical to you to speak and learn how to read japanese.

I will try to post my new lessons every week.
I will try to break each lesson into parts that you need to work on each day.

I just read Gravies post below, And im just wondering, how many people will actually take the effort in learning japanese from me? cuz I dont want to be wasting my time if you guys dont really want to put forth the effort.

[Shii]

I think this one ought to be closed... if you learned any Japanese from this, when you went to Japan you'd have to relearn it the right way.

[hamiko_san]

10 things more, you never know.

[gravitation]

ermm i wont be posting much in here coz nobody is really trying to learn but for the small few that are i will post stuff still ^_^

[hamiko_san]

10 things more, you never know.

[Shii]

Uh... it wasn't a review... and zalas' post wasn't a review either. Our "commentaries" are merely pointing out proper grammar. You wouldn't want to speak Engrish, right?

You can help people learn Japanese by deleting this thread...

[Akkarael]

I'll learn! (or try, at least!) I love languages, and having weekly lessons seems like a nice way to keep on track.

I came across the following site for hiragana and katakana (yet another one) - you don't need to login to get to the worksheets, and they won't help you memorize the kana, but I found it helpful to trace the shapes like this for your initial writing practice.

http://i33www.ira.uka.de/~bgarz/nihongoshoho/KanjiSheet/index.html

Also, I'm curious - how important is stroke order? Do your teachers place a lot of emphasis on it?

The first link you mentioned, p3psi, also has links to dakuon, handakuon, and youon? What are those? Should I memorize them as well?

[Shii]

The first link you mentioned, p3psi, also has links to dakuon, handakuon, and youon? What are those? Should I memorize them as well?
Those are subdivisions of hiragana.

[gravitation]

stroke order is important, ya see im not sure why but the japanese are really big when it comes to handwriting...handwriting is important! ^_^

[p3psi]

The first link you mentioned, p3psi, also has links to dakuon, handakuon, and youon? What are those? Should I memorize them as well?

yes yes yes, they are part of the alphabet, but not really extra memorization, its just that the pronouciation changes
For example,
は-is "ha"
ば-is "ba"
ぱ-is "pa"
か-is "ka"
が-is "ga"

also, this little "yo" after "ki" is suppose to be on the same level with "ki". not a subscript, but it is suppose to be smaller than "ki"
きょis "kyo"
this seems its going to be a problem for me writing in japanese in posts, if anyone knows how to fix that yo from floating in the middle, let me know.
you also use the same rules with its katakana counterpart

ive been looking through that link you posted, and thats a good idea to write these out. because you want to practice reading and writeing them of course.

[gravitation]

we can go over the whole alphabet and its pronounciation today...im going to skool soon so i cant do it yet, but when i get bak i will bye xxx ^_^

[Megane]

yeah watashi = i and is conisdered to be female
boku wa = i and is considered to be more male, yeah i think that it is for kids and ore is the male one for guys ^_^

At the bottom of this page on 100 Most Essential Words in Anime (http://www.yale.edu/anime/glossary.html), there is a section about pronouns (words like "I", "you", etc.), which I thought was pretty good. It touches on the difficulties surrounding pronouns in Japanese, mainly about the formalities involved.

[Taiir]

Hello everyone, I'm new here but I noticed this thread and thought I'd throw in a contribution. For people looking for a good way to learn on their own, I'd have to recomend a piece of software called "human Japanese." I got my copy bundled in with a 4 cd set called "Instant Immersion Japanese" that I picked up at Best Buy for about $20. The first 2 cd's of the set were pretty useless, but the third one is gold. After the basics, it focuses on sentence structure, building more and more complex sentences by moving thru the vaious 'particles' that comprise and identify the pieces of Japanese speech. Also, it instructs hiragana and katakana (no kanji, unfortunately). Also, all Japanese text can be clicked to hear what it's supposed to sound like (between that, and watching too much anime, my pronounciation is getting pretty good :) ) This may just be the way that I learn, but I'm doing better with this software than any other method I've tried. Also, for people looking for an incredible little Japanese word processor, I'd recommend JWPce. It's open-source, and thus freeware :) I got my copy from

http://www.translationtown.com/tt/cont/software/jwpce.asp

I've still barely touched the full functionality of this software, which includes a full set of kanji lookup tools!

Well, that's all I've got, hope I didn't ramble too much and could be of some help to someone!

[Archuka]

If you think you want something more than what this thread can offer, I suggest you visit http://www.japanese-online.com

The lessons there are awesome. Every lesson is made of a piece of text that is shown in both Japanese and English next to each other so you can easily compare them to each other. After the text there is the grammar part, which goes trough the grammar used in the text. Finally all lessons have a few drills where you have to type in a word to a sentence or something similar. You can also listen to the text in Japanese so you know the pronounciation. At some point the lessons switch to hiragana and katakana which makes things a bit slower though.

[zalas]

Well, the official JWPCE site is at http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~grosenth/japanese.html

For more electronic Japanese information, you should try JIM BREEN's site:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/japanese.html

There's also a nice online Japanese to Japanese dictionary at:
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/

Finally, web EIJIROU is very useful for sample translations:
http://www.alc.co.jp/

[[^_^x]]

I think its stupid when people who dont know japanese integrated with english.

such as adding "ne?" at the end of sentences or other words that do not fit into the grammar. Mixing of languages is fmurdering of the beauty of a language. The only reason foreign words should be used are for names and places. "Otakus" adding 1 or 2 japanese words they learned from anime is just stupid and worse when used incorrectly.

[p3psi]

']I think its stupid when people who dont know japanese integrated with english.

such as adding "ne?" at the end of sentences or other words that do not fit into the grammar. Mixing of languages is fmurdering of the beauty of a language. The only reason foreign words should be used are for names and places. "Otakus" adding 1 or 2 japanese words they learned from anime is just stupid and worse when used incorrectly.

na-knee? what is an otaku deysueka ne

RIFK, forgot the Ne, ne :heh:

[Segahekui]

i dont see the point in massively posting japanese websites, especially when u can find them on google.. this is supposed to be gravitation's japanese lessons not "whats a good site to learn japanese?"

[gravitation]

lol i kinda gave up the whole lesson thing now coz not many ppl were following and it just turned into a thread full of links, but hey im not bothered coz i have skool h.w to do :( bye xxx ^___^

[p3psi]

I was going to post condense chapter one lesson from my old japanese I text book next weekend, but ill do that, but if this thread goes back to the second page, ill wont waste anymore of my time...

[gravitation]

nah i think it would be kool if ya did post it, i would look at it for sure ^_^
^_~
P.S dont worry if ya post i wont allow it to go on to the 2nd page! ^_^

[7thMethuselah]

i tried learning japanese through webpages and books too, but in the end it requires soo much discipline it's much easier to just go out and follow japaese classes, which is what I did :). It was fun to discover that half of my class are otaku's just like me, and the other half are asian :)

[Hot Ice]

I was considering buying a software or a book or something. Any advice? Can you really teach yourself Japanese?

It would be really cool to learn Japanese, for the sake of watching anime. ^_ ^

[p3psi]

I was considering buying a software or a book or something. Any advice? Can you really teach yourself Japanese?

It would be really cool to learn Japanese, for the sake of watching anime. ^_ ^

I would say take a class, but thats not always a choice for people. One semister of japanese at many american colleges can cost 400-600 dollars (even over a thousands for the more repuatable colleges), plus registartion fees. And thats only if you take that single course. if they offer you japanese in highschool, take it. But remember, you probally will not have a japanese (an actual person who is japanese) teacher, but some dude with an accent. i remember my spanish teachers being germen, irish, and then one from indiana.

If you want to teach yourself:
#1, go with a computer program that has reading, writing and speaking.
You think you hear a lot of japanese in anime, but you dont actually pay attention to what they're saying because you are reading the subtitles.

#2, if you cant get a good computer program with reading, writing and speaking, then go with audio tapes. This will partially sub for a japanese teacher.
in conjunction with the audio tapes, you need a book for reading and writting.

[Hot Ice]

Thanks, but taking a course is probably not an option. I'm not even sure if they offer that in the university I attend to. ::oh, doh I'm too old to learn a new language::

Even if there was a Japanase course, I would have to wait 'till third semester, which is in September 2004, as I have no elective course in my second semester. :: excuse my babbling ::

I'll probably hit the book store then.

I live in Canada by the way, and no, I'm not a Canadian.

[p3psi]

Thanks, but taking a course is probably not an option. I'm not even sure if they offer that in the university I attend to. ::oh, doh I'm too old to learn a new language::

Even if there was a Japanase course, I would have to wait 'till third semester, which is in September 2004, as I have no elective course in my second semester. :: excuse my babbling ::

I'll probably hit the book store then.

I live in Canada by the way, and no, I'm not a Canadian.

my local public library acutally had some good japanese studing books, they also had a japanese learning computer program.

but i dont know if they even have libraries in canada. and even if they did, it will probally be full of ice hockey and maple tree books. and they'll probally tear it down in like a year so they can build some more ice rinks.

im j/k

[ElvenPath]

Those who want to learn japanese, checkout this link:

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~thoureau/japanese.html

[Dark Zero]

LMAO! That link states everything I'd like to tell those people who "I want to learn Japanese" and think they can. Man, I needed a good laugh.

[p3psi]

If you want to learn japanese just so you can watch anime, dont bother trying. because most likely you wont try anyway.

learning japanese just so you can understand Naruto or green green, or any type of anime in not worth it.

Its not essential to learn it to enjoy "nightshift nurses" or "la blue girl" or whatever you're into.

You will find out that its not worth learning because where you live, chances are you will never use japanese to speak to anyone else in your entire country.

Only learn it if you are actually going to use it for something useful and worth while, like you're going to a trip to japan.
Not because you want to use broken japanese and confuse your classmates. "You are Baka Desu!" or " Wow, that boy/girl is really kawaii." Rather than using forgien worlds to "suppliment" your speech (you're not really supplimenting, your destorying it), expand your vocabulary. I've taken an high school etimology class, and sounded quite sophisticated when i finsished it.

The only reason im taking japanese right now is because its language requirement for my degree.

Half my family is japanese, and i never bothered to learn it until now becuase they live half way across the globe. Even my mother didnt bother to teach me japanese when i was growing up, because she knew it would be practically useless in America.

Seriously, dont waste your time. If you are serious, you will spend the money and time to take a japanese course. I dont know anyone with the self discipline that can teach himself 2-3 years worth of japanese (enough to be partially fluent), and keep on pace every day. And do it all correctly for that matter.

[Dark Zero]

japanese people take nearly their entire school career to barely master, if they even master, their language. think some "learn japanese" cd is going to help?

[Hot Ice]

As Karen of Onegain Twins usually say "nyuuuuu."

Well after, reading that article and the posts after that, I felt like I've been hit by Amano Ginji's thunder!

Geez, I didn't ask for any discouragement :: sniff sniff ::

So I suppose I should quit before I even start! lol

[Uzumaki626]

Too bad this aint the Matrix and Link (or whatever his name is) could upload the japanese language to your head. That would make life much simpler. And I would aslo ask him to upload the "C" language to my head. That would surely help me figure out this damn programming homework assignment.

[Hikari]

If you are truely interested in it and have the time and resources, go ahead to learn it. The other member comments above are just want they know from experience. But everyone's different. It's your call. Just be prepared to take it all the way. Having a simple interest because of anime is one thing but it's up to you if you want to learn it because of just that or if you are going to use it for something else.

If you're just going to learn a little in your free time, I don't see nothing wrong about that. I would stay away from any learning Japanese cd's you might having seen, those are usually confusing and most don't even let you past lesson one to begin with. For basic speaking/listening, try Pimsleur's Japanese audio lessons, it's easy to follow and listening the native speakers is the next best thing to a class. Writing and reading you obviously would need books.

[gravitation]

this thread has some basic stuff and sum good site links ^__^ but the lessons arent going on anymore >_<
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=180

[zalas]

That article was hilarious!
Sounds like some angry gaijin living in Japan (*cough*TC*cough*)

That said, I think Japanese is slightly easier if:
1) You know Chinese (no more pesky kanji to master)
2) You are good with languages (multiple European languages sorta count, but not as much as say Spanish and Hindi)

Furthermore, you NEED a good textbook with lessons and such. In order to get to the reading level of the dialogue used in anime, students here have to probably go through three years of Japanese. That's about three textbook's worth. Furthermore, in order to actually figure out what people are saying you'd need lots of practice talking to people in Japanese. Tapes prepare you for listening, so would be okay, but you won't get the full experience (learning to speak, enunicating correctly) without actually speaking with a Japanese language speaker often.

[ato]

Have you taken any other language before? As zalas says, learning other languages and having a firm grasp of grammar will certainly help you. (Btw, Spanish is a European language ;) )

I would hazard a guess that knowing languages from several different language families will help as well. Indo-european languages are quite different from semitic or slavic languages...And from Japanese. Knowing what can be different should help you focus your attention on the right stuff.

As has been said earlier, and I will stress it, do get a textbook. This is essential, and no number of casettes can replace it. A grammar book and a dictionary is also part of the needed equipment. Also, a class serves more purposes than mere practice in speaking the language. It also serves as motivation for study, a place where you meet like minded (language fetichists ;) ) and gives you a tried and tested structure to your studies.

Be aware that you will need a massive time investment in order to make even simple conversation - It is deceptively easy to learn phrases; real free form speech is magnitudes harder. But if you have a genuine interest, you will certainly be able to learn any language you choose.

Good luck! :D

[Xeno]

I think you can do it, I'm teaching myself japanese at the moment, I bought a great dictionary, multiple books with different perspectives on grammar which also teach the language(to help understand it better), as well as a book to teach me how to write the language correctly. Pronunciation I'm not bad at, but I do use tapes on occasion. As said before, it is easier to have learned some of other languages first, I myself have taken 2 years of italian, just started german(which I'm acing), and I've also been learning swedish. I find learning languages easy, seems to be just a knack I have. But then again, I enjoy studying languages in my spare time(I am extremely dedicated, and you need that to learn japanese). So if your truely dedicated, and have a cause, I myself am self teaching myself until college, since its 2 years away till then, and I'm going for my doctorate in japanese in order to become a professor, so that I can either teach japanese here, or go to japan and possibly teach english there. I think you can do it with dedication, but don't half ass it.

[Mr. Bushido]

Those who want to learn japanese, checkout this link:

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~thoureau/japanese.html


uh yea... some of that is kinda BS. Especially the Holocaust thing. I believe the Romans were gone by the time Europe made contact with the Japanese.... so yea there wouldnt be a latin word for "japanese"

japanese isnt that hard, it may be because im korean and japanese language comes from korea, but still its a different language. And its not tat hard.

japanese people take nearly their entire school career to barely master, if they even master, their language. think some "learn japanese" cd is going to help?

This is funny... you honestly think u mastered English!?! You have to be kidding me right?? Tell me every grammar rule in the english language, ull get stuck after uve gone thru 20% of them. People thnk our asian languages are so damn hard, but u guys dont know that by stats english is one of the hardest language to master. a lot of ppl speak it sure... but everyone is taught, and NO ONE mastered the language. Thats right, ure english professor?? I can gurantee he hasnt mastered the language.

LEARN JAPANESE BOOKS/CDS/TAPES ARE NOT MEANT FOR U TO MASTER THE LANGUAGE! ITs so you can speak, write, and read in japan to get thru a normal day life in japan. By the way animes will not ask u "WRITE AN ESSAY ENTIRELY IN KANJI!" no no no, dont worry about MASTERING it, cuz u never will, ull never master english either.

As for me, couple of textbooks, cds, a dictionary, and anime will help me learn japanese. like i said before, japanese language has roots in korean language (yea damn japanese takes everything from korean! even their samurais!) Also if you think watching anime wont help, then ure also ignorant. I learned English from Rugrats and Rocko's Modern Life. Both shows have bad english in a way, but in the end, im a high school student taking college literature class. My mom also knows ppl who learned a foriegn language from subtitles... yea so watch like hell and get a book and ure on ur way. Ive taught myself english, and japanese cant be too much harder.

[zalas]

uh yea... some of that is kinda BS. Especially the Holocaust thing. I believe the Romans were gone by the time Europe made contact with the Japanese.... so yea there wouldnt be a latin word for "japanese"

And if you didn't realize the article was a satirical joke, then you need a better sense of humor :)


japanese isnt that hard, it may be because im korean and japanese language comes from korea, but still its a different language. And its not tat hard.

Sure, you know an Asian language. How many people do you think actually know an Asian language that well?


As for me, couple of textbooks, cds, a dictionary, and anime will help me learn japanese. like i said before, japanese language has roots in korean language (yea damn japanese takes everything from korean! even their samurais!) Also if you think watching anime wont help, then ure also ignorant. I learned English from Rugrats and Rocko's Modern Life. Both shows have bad english in a way, but in the end, im a high school student taking college literature class. My mom also knows ppl who learned a foriegn language from subtitles... yea so watch like hell and get a book and ure on ur way. Ive taught myself english, and japanese cant be too much harder.
I never thought watching anime won't help you learn Japanese, but if you're relying mostly on anime to learn Japanese, it's going to be a long road... By the way, just because someone knows someone who learned a language from subtitles, doesn't mean everyone can do it. I mean, can you learn Abh from all the subtitles in the Seikai no * series?

Besides, I think it's harder to learn proper speaking and pronunciation from a book. If the book is easy to read, then it can't describe the pronunciations well enough. If it describes the pronunciation well enough, then it would be hard to read. Just a note, people in anime don't necessarily speak "normally."

[Mr. Bushido]

And if you didn't realize the article was a satirical joke, then you need a better sense of humor :)


Sure, you know an Asian language. How many people do you think actually know an Asian language that well?


I never thought watching anime won't help you learn Japanese, but if you're relying mostly on anime to learn Japanese, it's going to be a long road... By the way, just because someone knows someone who learned a language from subtitles, doesn't mean everyone can do it. I mean, can you learn Abh from all the subtitles in the Seikai no * series?

Besides, I think it's harder to learn proper speaking and pronunciation from a book. If the book is easy to read, then it can't describe the pronunciations well enough. If it describes the pronunciation well enough, then it would be hard to read. Just a note, people in anime don't necessarily speak "normally."

i understand it was a satire, but tat holocaust thing was a bit overexageration.

pronounciation? i dont know for me i never found tat hard in any language except french. (then again im not too good with anything french except napoleon history)
well thats y i recommended a CD tat comes with ur book. most good books will come with a cd u can listen to.

i learned english without subtitles. So in my opinion i dont think itll be too hard with it.

besides if ure not gonna take something just cuz u think "its hard, i cant do it" wats the point of living you know? i never thought id be able to live in the US when i first came here, now i wouldnt leave.

most anime characters do speak normally. otherwise it may be hard for japanese ppl to understand them right? and even if it isnt "normally" isnt it ovbious even lil kids in japan understand them? I mean i understand british accent, eubonics, aussie accent, any accent actually, and lil kids talking, ppl with speech problems, someone who doesnt speak english too well I understand them well. Dont you?

[Recca]

I have 3 tables with all the Katakana, hiragana and one for both.
Really helpfull and they explain alot of things.
Start by trying to translate the names of items in an japanese game, then use www.amikai.com to translate them into english.
Not only will you learn new words, you will also be able to memorize the letters. When you have a good grip on those. Try translating more complicated stuff.
It really helps alot if you do this non stop.
Works for me.

[7thMethuselah]

I'm actually following japanese classes right now and I have to say it IS DAMN HARD.
The japanese use on average three times as much words as the english to say the same, the words mostly sound like gibberish and the sentence structure is completely messed up. And don't get me started on the kanji and kana's...

To be honest : if you really wanna learn japanese you should realise it will take you YEARS to be decent at it, also it's a language that requires DAILY study (just because it is so completely different). I personally admire (no worship) anyone who can learn that language oin his own, from my personal experience i have to say that the "jap for starters" books they sell are handy to use while taking some serious class but they cannot replace that class...

However I'd say if you really wanna learn it, give it a try, don't give up too soon: it's one of the hardest languages to master (or so our teacher keeps telling me) but I find it very rewarding.

Enough ranting, time to watch tsukihime ;)

[Mr. Bushido]

I'm actually following japanese classes right now and I have to say it IS DAMN HARD.
The japanese use on average three times as much words as the english to say the same, the words mostly sound like gibberish and the sentence structure is completely messed up. And don't get me started on the kanji and kana's...

To be honest : if you really wanna learn japanese you should realise it will take you YEARS to be decent at it, also it's a language that requires DAILY study (just because it is so completely different). I personally admire (no worship) anyone who can learn that language oin his own, from my personal experience i have to say that the "jap for starters" books they sell are handy to use while taking some serious class but they cannot replace that class...

However I'd say if you really wanna learn it, give it a try, don't give up too soon: it's one of the hardest languages to master (or so our teacher keeps telling me) but I find it very rewarding.

Enough ranting, time to watch tsukihime ;)

learn krn much easier (or i think so) than take japanese makes it 85% easier.
btw saying "jap" is illegal. Even tho its a shorter way to say online, its illegal to say it.

[luckme10]

learn krn much easier (or i think so) than take japanese makes it 85% easier.
btw saying "jap" is illegal. Even tho its a shorter way to say online, its illegal to say it.

um I don't know about "Illegal" but it has the same effect as words like gook(terminology used in the vietnam war to address the vietnamese), nigger, gay, homo, queer, fairy queen, faggot, etc. I personally think cracker is hilarious, however, it is definitely offensive. I generally don't go down to hard on people because the thing is for those of us who was raised in certain areas find it more socially acceptable then others. In our parts gays are probably the most bashed. Some people say "That's gay" subconsciously." I'd just address caution if you are accustomed to such slang when speaking with other people.

Anyways i'm considering learning japanese myself. I would have taken it in high school but they didn't offer it. And i vaguely recall anything that I may have learned in japanese school during the elementry years. HoweverI can't help but think about putting myself in the shoes of others. If I do commit to learning the language will I ever be ablet to kill that horrific American accent(probably not)? For me the desire lies mainly in my roots I guess(i'm a forth generation Japanese American) All of my living relatives all speak english(although one of my grandparents english is rather broken...). So naturally this is the only language I have been accustomed to. I think whatever inspires/motivates you to learn a language is great. No matter if you are facinated by the culture or want to be 5 months ahead of westerners in video games :(

[NightWish]

I was recently directed to this site by a friend:

http://www.MyLanguageExchange.com/

I don't know how good it is yet -- could be bad -- but it might be worth checking out ... it looks interesting at the very least ;)

[Lord Raiden]

Well, I'm taken a big step here, but I've set my mind to learning Japanese. It's been something I've thought about for a while and I've decided to do it. I've always loved the language and I love eastern culture, especially Japanese culture, so I want to learn the language as well.

Can anyone give me any good books, guides, tips, etc on how best to start learning Japanese, aside from getting a tutor? I'm going to get a tutor definately, but I also want to at least start learning some of this on my own, but how to write it, pronounce it, spell it, meanings, aka the whole nine yards. Any advise is greatly wecome. :)

[zalas]

Well, I'm taken a big step here, but I've set my mind to learning Japanese. It's been something I've thought about for a while and I've decided to do it. I've always loved the language and I love eastern culture, especially Japanese culture, so I want to learn the language as well.

Can anyone give me any good books, guides, tips, etc on how best to start learning Japanese, aside from getting a tutor? I'm going to get a tutor definately, but I also want to at least start learning some of this on my own, but how to write it, pronounce it, spell it, meanings, aka the whole nine yards. Any advise is greatly wecome. :)
If you have not already memorized all the kana, do so now. (well, except for the we wi archaic kana ^^;). It'll get you familiarized with the writing system in general. And it's pretty straight forward to memorize them too.

[Lord Raiden]

Sweet. I'll do that. Now all I gotta do is find a good resource that lists all of them. ^_^

[Kawaii_Sennin]

May I introduce you to this nifty essay I stumbled upon. http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~thoureau/japanese.html

[Shii]

You can't learn Japanese without a textbook, or watching raw anime.

But you can get a good grip on grammar if you read "Making Sense of Japanese" by Jay Rubin.

[boneyjellyfish]

I hope this website can help you, Lord Raiden. It's where I learned how to read and write katakana and hiragana:

Click Here (http://members.aol.com/writejapan/index.htm)

[FinFangFoom]

Check this site out, http://lrnj.com/ , it's a free RPG that teaches you Japanese. I played it for a while and it's pretty cool.

[Lord Raiden]

Wow, another great batch of suggestions! Thanks! :)

Kawaii_Sennin: Cute essay. I guess the things he described in there could be applied to almost anything new in some way. :D

[ff7799]

Well I am currently in the proccess of learning japanese and I would like to know how long it took you to actually learn the language. When I say exactly how long I mean, I would like to know how long it took you to have a acceptable grasp of the language.

[p3psi]

im still learning.

but, normally it takes 4 semesters (or 2 years) to become semi-fluent.

you wont become truely fluent until you go to japan and are surrounded by it 24 hours a day. there are so many little things that you can only pick up when you're actually living there, and not learning the langauge from a text book.

do you think you could learn to speak english like an american if you just learned it from a textbook or audio tapes?

I heard from study aboard students that within 3 months, something "clicks" in thier head. And almost like magic, thier ability to speak and understand increased 10 fold.

well, i should say the only way to become fluent is to go to japan.
you must take 2 more years of japanese classes.
The focus of the first 2 years is basically to learn all the grammer, syntax, schematic, etc.
while the next 2 years, they will teach you less grammer and focus more on actually using it. You will have to make speechs, hold conversations everyday in class, write compostions etc.

[zalas]

Hm, interessting... I'm here for about two month and until now I have the feeling that my knowledge of the language got worse instead of better... somehow everyone wants to speak english, or at least try it. Well, I hope that their will also "click something in my head" in the next months. :D
I think it also depends on what you look like. If you look like an obvious gaijin, they might get excited and want to practice their English, rather than the other way around ^^;

[p3psi]

the study aboard students i talked to went mostly to european countries, i guess it could be diffrent in japan.

and, i guess if you're not forced to use the japanese you've learned, either people you're talking are speaking english or you have someone around that helps interpurt , that
doesnt help.

i dont know how they did it, but it would probally help if you struggle with the language, like try to go on a train to some tourist place by yourself and see if you can survive for the day (getting around, eating, sight seeing, buying tickets, blah blah blah). If you havent been doing that already.

[Blue*Dragon]

i must say. I slowly learn japanese thx to the jap sub anime's. So during waching i also learn japanese. K not for writing, but that am i learning from a other programe.

[sothis]

learning the language isnt that bad.. a few years.

the problem is kanji. you need to know a LOT to be able to read anything decent... and you HAVE to practice them, all the time.. if you don't, you'll forget.

so, yea. i dont think understanding the grammar, etc, of japanese is too difficult.. but learning thousands of kanji? not so fun.

[Mr. Bushido]

i learned english in 3 months. I stayed home and watched Rugrats and nick-kids all day. ANd i picked up english like that. Ive only been here 9 yrs, and im taking college english courses in high school.

the point? watch raw anime ALOT. over and over and over.

My korean got better here in america even tho my only practice is with my parents. I talk to my parents a lot more than average high school kid, but it doesnt explain why my korean went from kindergarden level to a 3rd grade in writing and 5th~7th grade reading, and up to 9th grade speaking. I have bad spelling, and vocab... thats about it. I cant read hanmun either... (korean kanji)


if you practice then its not hard to learn any language. (except french, since the teachers and books suck)

im taking japanese starting Feb at a community college.

[Bluesummers]

(except french, since the teachers and books suck)


...............
Lol.

[Lord Raiden]

Speaking of taking Japanese classes, I'm finding it tough finding anything local to where I am. I live in Lower Michigan and I'm trying to find a couple of colleges within decent driving distance of Battle Creek in order to take the college classes I want to in order ot learn. I know I will definately want to practice my Kana at the very least and have it memorized before my first class. Especially after the class requirements I saw at U of M's site. It read that you will be proficient in Katakana, Hagi-something (forgot the spelling, gomen) and 145 Kanji. I was like "Sweet Jebbus!!" :eek: when I read that. So I know that in the 7-8 months before class starts I'll want to be proficient in at the very least Katakana before I take the class. Should be fun though. :) That may have surprised me, but I've set my mind to this and I'm going to tackle and at least decently perfect this language within 2 years one way or another. :D

[gravitation]

Hagi-something lol, its Hiragana i think lol ^_^ i wish ya good luck with learning and stuff lord raiden :D
Ive been learning japanese since the summer term but i havent had many lessons coz my tutor works alot...i found that for memorizing hiragana etc that cards helped :) i have learned hiragana and some katakana....but no kanji yet...i need to be more strict with myself!! ^_^ :D
anyway good luck...or should i say gambatte!

[Lord Raiden]

Cool, thanks. Yeah, the Hiragana was what I was thinking, but the old braincells weren't firing right so I could remember it. 0_o

Flash cards will work good for me too as I was already planning on grabbing a book from Barnes and Nobles and then making up flash cards for both of those, and eventually the Kanji, but definately the Katakana first, then the Hirigana and use it to learn those as Flash cards seem to help me a lot with learning of that type. :)

[Blue*Dragon]

Japense lessons, nope not in my town.

In holland you can track Japense cources difficult. I know there is one in the Amsterddam only that will be 2 hours cycling or take the bus. Oh no that am i not doing, just i take the prog and the raw eps. K first raw than sub

[p3psi]

In holland you can track Japense cources difficult. I know there is one in the Amsterddam only that will be 2 hours cycling or take the bus. Oh no that am i not doing, just i take the prog and the raw eps. K first raw than sub

whaaaaaaaaaaa? I'm not trying to be mean or funny, but maybe you should concentrate more on english. English of course is going to be far more useful to you. If you're just studing japanese to watch anime and read manga, that would be a waste of time in my opinion. dont get me wrong, its good to be multilingual, but only if you can use it to get a job or something. :heh:

[Blue*Dragon]

whaaaaaaaaaaa? I'm not trying to be mean or funny, but maybe you should concentrate more on english. English of course is going to be far more useful to you. If you're just studing japanese to watch anime and read manga, that would be a waste of time in my opinion. dont get me wrong, its good to be multilingual, but only if you can use it to get a job or something. :heh:

:@ i have english on my school, but that is only for 2 lessons on one week :s


Search my up if you would :P
http://www.tynoss.nl/klimmuur%20verkenners/IMG_0013.JPG

[Lord Raiden]

Time to start digging into your English books and reading tapes then. Trust me, when I'm stateside, my German gets really rusty and sucks bad unless I find some nice alte dame (german for "old lady") and have a chat with her in pure old country German. Of course after I go over to Germany for a couple of months and come back stateside, it takes me about a week before I can speak English straight again after having jabbered in pure German for 6-9 months. I can talk perfect German, but my english gets sloppy.

Same idea with learning any language. The more you use it, the better you get at it. The less you use it, the harder it is to speak fluently. That's what I'm planning on taking a long trip to Japan in a couple of years. Maybe crash out with The Small One for a couple of months just so I can clean up and perfect my Japanese. Of coure I'm sure The Small One wouldn't mind having a fellow Kraut with him for a couple of months. ^_^ (just kidding The Small One) :D

But seriously, before tackling a 3rd language, perfect your English. Here's a trick you can use. I do something similar to this when I'm going over to Germany for any period of time. Find somewhere that lots of people speak good English and often. Go hang out there and talk with them, listen to them, etc. It will do good to take the rough edges off what you know and make your english smoother. May not work for you, but I know it works for me, so it's worth a try for you.

[zalas]

i learned english in 3 months. I stayed home and watched Rugrats and nick-kids all day. ANd i picked up english like that. Ive only been here 9 yrs, and im taking college english courses in high school.

the point? watch raw anime ALOT. over and over and over.

My korean got better here in america even tho my only practice is with my parents. I talk to my parents a lot more than average high school kid, but it doesnt explain why my korean went from kindergarden level to a 3rd grade in writing and 5th~7th grade reading, and up to 9th grade speaking. I have bad spelling, and vocab... thats about it. I cant read hanmun either... (korean kanji)


if you practice then its not hard to learn any language. (except french, since the teachers and books suck)

im taking japanese starting Feb at a community college.
So I learned English over a summer, that doesn't mean taking a language only needs a few months. And besides, learning English for Asian people is much easier than learning Japanese for English-speaking people, and it's also much easier to pick up languages when you're young. Sure, you _can_ learn Japanese by watching a lot of raws and consulting grammar books and dictionaries, but I think you'd learn it actually much faster if you attended classes and put as much effort into the classes as you do with raw anime.

[Mr. Bushido]

So I learned English over a summer, that doesn't mean taking a language only needs a few months. And besides, learning English for Asian people is much easier than learning Japanese for English-speaking people, and it's also much easier to pick up languages when you're young. Sure, you _can_ learn Japanese by watching a lot of raws and consulting grammar books and dictionaries, but I think you'd learn it actually much faster if you attended classes and put as much effort into the classes as you do with raw anime.

i never said that didnt help..... i just said raw animes help. summer is 3 months ^^

[Oneesama]

There are tons and tons of Japanese classes offered where I lived. There is a private Class Session 10 blocks up and another one ~12 blocks down.... so it is very convient for me to go to Japanese classes. I am in 2nd year Japanese, amongst my friends, some are Japanese~ so when I talk to them, I spoke to them in Japanese as much as possible~ ( as learning the oral skills) and you should go to like Japanese shopping malls and resturants...... I mean just hang around and listen to other people's conversation~ that helps abit~ But I found the best way learning Japanese is watching Anime :) since you have the nice subs for you to understand~ and vocal for speaking..... it's quite a effective way to learn Jap. sa~ choose one of your favorite anime~ and repeatly watch it till you almost rememorize their every single line ( almost~ ok~ you get what I mean ~ ) then repeatly doing so: I PROMISE YOU, YOU WILL ROCK in Japanese ^^ ( well, at least that's how I do it for practice ^^ )

[raikage]

4th semester in college, better than many but not nearly as good as others

For a good forum, go to http://www.toriyamaworld.com/forum/forum-view.asp?forumid=8

But I found the best way learning Japanese is watching Anime since you have the nice subs for you to understand~ and vocal for speaking..... it's quite a effective way to learn Jap. sa~ choose one of your favorite anime~ and repeatly watch it till you almost rememorize their every single line ( almost~ ok~ you get what I mean ~ ) then repeatly doing so: I PROMISE YOU, YOU WILL ROCK in Japanese ^^ ( well, at least that's how I do it for practice ^^ )

oh god...sorry, but...
you will NOT rock in Japanese...

You'll get bad habits from watching anime - your speech style will adapt to whomever it is you watch.

Ranma - 15 year old brat
Naruto - 13 year old cocky punk kid
Belldandy - goddess ditz
Himura Kenshin - retired, peaceful samurai
Chii - Chii
Chiyo-chan - super-smart 5th grader in high school

none of which sound like appealing choices to me...

It's gonna be a LOOOOOONG time before you can understand raw anime - I can understand maybe about half of what's going on at the point that I'm at (maybe others have better teachers/programs) and I've been here for 2 years.

[luckme10]

when i go to japan i think i'll speak nothing but japanese and if people start talking to me in english i'll respond with something like no hablo ingles or something

BTW
"Himura Kenshin - retired, peaceful samuraiHimura Kenshin - retired, peaceful samurai"

NOW THAT WOULD BE COOL TO SPEAK LIKE THAT

Orooo!?

[Elin]

*laughs* I've been learning for maybe 3 months... Don't know much yet, but my will to learn is carrying me fairly far through it :)

[Mad Cat]

Id say its up to the person.
It took my less then 6 months for me to talk good english when i was learning it

[Wandering A.I.]

Hmm, I've been learning for 3 years (but only ~5 semesters of classes, 1 class per since it's not my major and skipped one) and am still terrible at it. My sole accomplishment is I can usually understand what my roommates (who are Japanese) are saying (like "toire kami ga nai no?" and what not, lol) and can understand most anime with a dictionary at hand.

When it comes down to saying something myself (picking a verb/conjugating it and using it in one of the grammar patterns like hazu/tsumori desu or a sentence or whatever) I'm terrible. Actually I have all the conjugations of common verbs pretty much memorized, but if it's something I haven't encountered frequently it takes my mind way too long to figure it out and say it. Anyway I suppose this is why most of the time in class is spent broken up in groups and drilling each other - so you get experience saying things.

Anyway, my advice is that if you go with classes then when such a speaking occasion comes up, you shouldn't say the simplest thing that comes to mind. Try to say something vaguely complex, especially if it's your turn with the professor checking you/providing corrections. It will help a lot down the road to get used to saying weighty things, even if it means making more mistakes in class (where they don't count and are even beneficial when corrected anyway ^^).

Oh and re. kanji, don't even get me started. Start memorizing now because you'll never finish! Flash cards do nothing for me. If you're the same I suggest trying to use them in sentences/context whenever possible and on your own for practice, also you should read a lot. I could look at/drill a kanji on a flash card and say it's readings to myself 100 times and I still won't remember it as well as a kanji that I've used in my homework once or twice and read in context on occasion.

[Lord Raiden]

Id say its up to the person.
It took my less then 6 months for me to talk good english when i was learning it
hehe. You're probubly doing better than most native speakers are as of late. It seems that after you've been speaking a language for a while, you get lazy in the tongue. I've seen some people around here lately that sound like babblng idiots because they're just gotten lazy in the way they speak english. Sheesh. Drives me nuts. What's worse is when they make up words out of nowhere and expect me to know what they mean.

[*aznplayboi*]

I have a strange way of learning it actually. I watch anime and just figure out prefixes, suffixes, and words by hearing the character's talk and reading the subtitling...its actually been working.

oh..i don't exactly replay anime over and over and try to learn it lyke that. Also I'm korean and japanese is simalar to korean. even some of the words are the same!

[Mr. Bushido]

4th semester in college, better than many but not nearly as good as others

For a good forum, go to http://www.toriyamaworld.com/forum/forum-view.asp?forumid=8



oh god...sorry, but...
you will NOT rock in Japanese...

You'll get bad habits from watching anime - your speech style will adapt to whomever it is you watch.

Ranma - 15 year old brat
Naruto - 13 year old cocky punk kid
Belldandy - goddess ditz
Himura Kenshin - retired, peaceful samurai
Chii - Chii
Chiyo-chan - super-smart 5th grader in high school

none of which sound like appealing choices to me...

It's gonna be a LOOOOOONG time before you can understand raw anime - I can understand maybe about half of what's going on at the point that I'm at (maybe others have better teachers/programs) and I've been here for 2 years.


yea... watching those anime will HELP A LOT. I learned English of american cartoons. I didnt pick up the horrible english spoken by the characters of Rugrats. (my main source) or the australian accent from Rock's Modern Life (my 2ndary)

u may think its because i had english speakers all around me.... i learned english from books and cartoons before i went to school. Then there i refined it, but it was only to refine my korean accent. Since more characters in the anime speak normally than the couple of odd ones in a single episode. And once u learn more, u will be able to break old habits too... otherwise why would u learn?

[Posix]

*laughs* I've been learning for maybe 3 months... Don't know much yet, but my will to learn is carrying me fairly far through it :)
Same here.
I think it all depens on the person, how eager, diligent and ambitious you are.
Japanese is probably not easy to learn for us Europeans or Americans since our languages work so entirely different from the Asian ones.
But anyway, if you really want it, you will make it. Of course, living in Japan for a few years is definitely necessary. But that's the same with any language you might want to master ;)
Happy Japanese Studying everyone ^^

[zalas]

yea... watching those anime will HELP A LOT. I learned English of american cartoons. I didnt pick up the horrible english spoken by the characters of Rugrats. (my main source) or the australian accent from Rock's Modern Life (my 2ndary)

u may think its because i had english speakers all around me.... i learned english from books and cartoons before i went to school. Then there i refined it, but it was only to refine my korean accent. Since more characters in the anime speak normally than the couple of odd ones in a single episode. And once u learn more, u will be able to break old habits too... otherwise why would u learn?
The variation in Japanese with regards to accents and dialects and speaking patterns is a lot larger than the variation in English. As far as I can tell, British English and American English differ by a few vocab words (not including slang) and slight differences in pronunciation. Now Kansai-ben and Tokyo-ben differ a lot more, such as differences in particles, suffixes, etc. And in American cartoons, most people do speak normally, or at least not insultingly. Hence, if you try to talk to an American using what you learned in cartoons, you *may* sound weird, but you won't be insulting. Now try speaking like the typical male Japanese high school student to someone like your teacher or boss and you would be really impolite.

[chImp]

Can anyone recommend me a book wich teaches Japanese? The one I'm interested in getting right now is 'Japanese for busy people', but if anyone can recommend me a better one I'll take that one.

[Kamui4356]

I used that one for my Japanese class. It was pretty good for that, and seems like it would also work well for teaching yourself. The lessons are easy to follow and give a good feel for the very basics. It isn't that helpful for learning Hiragana or Katakana though. I think there is a workbook that goes with it for that.

[Wandering A.I.]

Hmm...I guess I'm only the equivalent of a late second year/early third year Japanese major at a normal uni. But I do love going into school book stores and reading their textbooks. So anyway, take the following with a grain a salt since I'm far from an expert at Japanese. ^^ The first Japanese course I took (at NYU) used the busy people book, but also "An Introduction to Modern Japanese" by Osamu Mizutani & Nobuko Mizutani (And a workbook for kana/kanji practice). I liked that text better than Busy People since it got more in depth, but it must be ancient by now (and wouldn't be good to start with on your own). My friend who goes to one of the SUNY schools says they use "Yookoso! An Invitation to Contemporary Japanese" there which I got a chance to take a good look at. I also remember checking out the Japan Society in NYC and they were using "Learn Japanese: New College Text".

Comparing Yookoso to Busy People I would recommend the former. Yookoso is a full fledged text book and has more vocabulary, more detail, and introduces kanji earlier than Busy People. If you do go with Japanese for Busy People then buy the kana version instead of the roomaji version. It doesn't take long to learn hiragana/katakana and the best way to remember them is to read and write them often as opposed to staring at flash cards or something (and the kana version will force you to use them ^^). Both series have at least two volumes AFAIK.

Also both have audio CDs and if you don't have a Japanese friend or professor to work with you really should get a CD set to keep your pronunciation on track. People working on their own can end up pronouncing things completely incorrectly and wasting a lot of work. Also Japanese has what's called a pitch accent (English is stress accent and is actually pretty guessable as to where as well) and almost no learning Japanese books actually mark down what's accented where in what word - it's just something you generally have to pick up from listening a lot and learning how the words are said.

The thing about the New College text books is they have a lot of very dense grammatical explanations footnoted on each dialogue and this is the main way you learn. I really loved these, but I know people who couldn't even understand them they were so detailed. ^^ At least some of the New College volumes also mark the pitch accent with a bar that has an up or a down to it over the text. A large portion of these texts is also taken up by drills/exercises. Anyway, I wouldn't recommend the New College texts unless you have a professor to work with and explain each lesson to you and students to drill with (if you haven't taken a class before, a huge portion of every class will generally be drilling/exercising with the other students watched by the prof so you get practice actually speaking and actively using the language).

Phew, that's more than I wanted to type or I think anyone will read. ^^ One more thing I can't not say...my favorite learning Japanese book nowadays isn't even a textbook per se, but a reader that focuses on written Japanese (and copyright 1963 Oo). It will generally introduce a ton of kanji and then the dialogue will go through a bunch of compounds and find excuses for using multiple readings and meanings for all of them and it works up to real newspaper articles, etc. Anyway, once you learn all the tenses and get a good handle on pronunciation look around for a good Japanese reader IMHO. ^^ I've picked up a ton of vocabulary this way, more so then I ever did with the more standard textbooks and for me at least learning kanji and compounds as part of functional dialogue is 1000x easier than memorizing them and seeing maybe a few examples unrelated to anything else like you do in kanji practice books (which rather than being full of dialogue and examples are generally full of space to practice writing, yuck ;p).

[babbito2k]

I will recommend Genki, which has a silly name but is a good system. To use Genki you have to learn hiragana and katakana right away, which is troublesome but worthwhile. You will also learn a couple hundred kanji, which will fry your brain but cannot be helped. There are 2 books, each with its own workbook. The workbooks are worthwhile but probably not vital as each textbook lesson already has exercises. There is also an expensive set of CDs for spoken-word recognition which I would not recommend buying. Two things about Genki I dislike:
1. It is not very well indexed and it can be hard to go back and find things.
2. The romanization was a little different from what I was used to (but romanization is only used for a couple of chapters).

[chImp]

I used that one for my Japanese class. It was pretty good for that, and seems like it would also work well for teaching yourself. The lessons are easy to follow and give a good feel for the very basics. It isn't that helpful for learning Hiragana or Katakana though. I think there is a workbook that goes with it for that.
Thanks for all your comments, but there is a course I could get (though it's €250 [ripoff]) and I can get the books that are in it (Japanese for Busy people and Kana Workbook) for about €60 so that's why I'm asking. So Kamui4356, you're saying that if I get these two books I'll be able to learn Japanese on my own?

[ato]

Hmmm. It is an interesting subject. In my studies, I have used the "Japanese for busy people" series as well. I keep hearing that the series (I - III) is a bit on the easy side, I guess that would depend on how fast you want to go through the material. At least in my opinion, they present an acceptable challenge at my intensity of study (which is to say, on evenings after a full workday :heh: ).

There are a couple of gripes I have with this series - The most annoyning is the sloppy habit of not including all the new words in the dictionary appendix. Also, until you reach the end of book three, you will be speaking at an "office" level of politeness. Whereas this is practical since you won't offend anyone, it makes it a bit difficult (though not impossible) for you to comprehend normal, relaxed speach. Further, as has been noted earlier in the thread, there are no pitch marks in this series of books. If you study by yourself, you'll likely aquire a highly amusing accent - But that will be the case anyway, as long as you go without a teacher ;)

And, if you go with this series, do get the kana version. The second book in the series will introduce kanji, and you really want to have the kana down pat by then.

What would be interesting to hear from you more experienced students is how to go on once you have leveled up (heh) past the introductory courses? Wandering A.I. mentioned getting a good reader - Any examples of suitably easy ones?

[Kamui4356]

Thanks for all your comments, but there is a course I could get (though it's €250 [ripoff]) and I can get the books that are in it (Japanese for Busy people and Kana Workbook) for about €60 so that's why I'm asking. So Kamui4356, you're saying that if I get these two books I'll be able to learn Japanese on my own?
NO, I'm saying it'll give you a good feel for the basics of the language. These books aren't advanced enough to learn it by yourself. After you're done with them you'll still have a lot more studying to do. :) They are a good place to start off though. However, if you already have some knowledge of Japanese, you may want to start with something more advanced.

[chImp]

NO, I'm saying it'll give you a good feel for the basics of the language. These books aren't advanced enough to learn it by yourself. After you're done with them you'll still have a lot more studying to do. :) They are a good place to start off though. However, if you already have some knowledge of Japanese, you may want to start with something more advanced.
Only thing I know now are a few words like Kon'nichiwa etc. so I'm beginning from a fresh start.

[ElvenPath]

Instead of buying books, take real japanese lessons.

[7thMethuselah]

Instead of buying books, take real japanese lessons.

I'd have to agree on that one, it is ALOT easier to learn a language that way, at least you'll be able to get the pronounciation right...

The second problem with learning a language on your own is that it requires alot of discipline and with classes you don't need that since every lesson you'll advance a little. I tried learning japanese by myslef only to find out that I had alot of questions that i couldn't find an answer too and I found myself unable to make senteces outside the situations offered in the book. Also once I started taking classes I found out I was making alot of errors :)

One more BIG advantage of classes is that you can actually talk japanese to other people, which would be alot harder when studying on ypour own

But if you study it on your own, learn hiragana and katakana right away, while it's no fun at first it'll come in handy later on.

in any event : Gambatte!! (good luck)

I 'm currently into kanji and am cursing those japs to use such a complicated script :)

[raikage]

Kan'ji - drives people insane.

But, once you finally learn it, it makes reading things so much easier.

For example, who would want to get rid of the number kan'ji (1-10, 100, 1000, etc.)

and it keeps things simple to understand:

きる -　切る "to cut"

きる -　着る "to wear"

きる -　斬る "to behead/murder"

[Shii]

Call me unscholarly, but I really like "Read Japanese Today". :)

[wnkryo]

Anyone know any simple programs that translate japanese text on the internet to english ones?

[Shii]

http://babelfish.av.com/

http://www.rikai.com/perl/Home.pl

[Virus]

How difficult is it for you to learn it?

I myself find it rather easy, sinse Romaji is pronounced very much like spanish (My original lenguage). As for the symbols, it's kinda easy, but it's going to take time :hmm:

[Lexander]

You know I noticed we don't have enough threads on Japanese. Keep em coming.

[raikage]

All you need to know about Japanese... (http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~thoureau/japanese.html)

But seriously, it's not the most difficult thing ever. Romaji is essentially useless - as soon as you learn kana, you won't/shouldn't be using Romaji pretty much ever again.

At basic/intermediate levels, conjugation isn't all that hard - all past tenses end pretty much the same way, present tenses, conditionals, etc. etc.

[Uesugi-sama]

I'm currently revising all the material of my class since I'm a volunteer Japanese teacher. Next semester I'll be teaching more people Japanese than ever, so I need better material. I've been making hiragana/katakana practise sheets, pronunciation charts and all sorts of new lessons.
I also use the classical Japanese way of teaching Kanji (which means I start with first grade kanji and work up to 8th grade and then add kanji for common names). The classes are free, but only available in the California Bay Area for now. If you want to sign up for an online class next semester, you can always PM me.
And yes, I have my teaching license as well as a diploma for Japanese, so I know what I'm doing. :)
I'm trying to get more lessons online, but it's a lot of work, and I'm just so busy.
One of my goals to provide a good online program that will reach more people.

[Ke0]

For those who are "learning" by listening to music, watching anime etc etc, I strongly suggest you take a some classes first, then do whatever you guys do to learn, it'll be alot easier that way, since you will know the do's and do nots. Because it would suck if you did in fact learn, but you talk like a girl, and you're a guy, or you talk like an informal prick, when your trying to be polite, and once it's become habit, it will be very hard to break. When I was in classes in Japan, one of my teachers gave me this site japanese.about.com

It's one of the few sites that give you the basics, Kanji, Kana, do's and do nots, all forms of conjugation, particle use, etc etc I wish more sites, listed the do's and do not's.

There's this one guy in my Art class here @ USC, who swears he learned Japanese from Gundam, so I started talking in the little Japanese he knew, and well let's say he has ALOT of learning to do, and he makes alot of mistakes in use of conjugation. Then he talks about how he wants to move to Japan, because he read all these books, so he knows how it is living there.........god if only he knew

[Blackvoice]

I have been trying on and off to learn Japanese and be fluent in it. I have tried the various silly methods like the Pimsluer quick learning CDs for spoken Japanese. but all they teach you are the basic things like saying you want to eat and telling the time etc. I would like to get to the point where I could watch and understand a raw feed. Now IMHO I believe you would need to live in Japan for maybe a couple of years straight to be able to carry on a conversation in Japanese. Since I do not have any immediate plans to move there anytime soon that’s out of the question. All that being said I would like to find out from some of you translators out there is there anyway a person can learn spoken Japanese without taking college classes? I hope to be a translator for a fansub someday.

PS; i think i posted this in the wrong aread...

[signseeker]

I have been trying on and off to learn Japanese and be fluent in it. I have tried the various silly methods like the Pimsluer quick learning CDs for spoken Japanese. but all they teach you are the basic things like saying you want to eat and telling the time etc. I would like to get to the point where I could watch and understand a raw feed. Now IMHO I believe you would need to live in Japan for maybe a couple of years straight to be able to carry on a conversation in Japanese. Since I do not have any immediate plans to move there anytime soon that’s out of the question. All that being said I would like to find out from some of you translators out there is there anyway a person can learn spoken Japanese without taking college classes? I hope to be a translator for a fansub someday.

PS; i think i posted this in the wrong aread...The only sure way is to take classes, but since you dont want to I would suggest reading manga in english and japanese several times. I have heard this works, but am no sure how well.

[Alterscape]

I've been taking Japanese for a year and a half now in university, and I still suck. Granted, part of this is my own lack of language learning ability (I took 4 years of Spanish in highschool, and sucked at that too) but in general, I very much doubt you'd be able to attain fluency without either living in Japan or taking classes for several years. If you want to start teaching yourself, I'd reccomend you pick up a book and start studying, though it'll be rough with no teacher to correct your mistakes and so forth..

[Shii]

Watching anime has helped slightly for me, but of course the best way to learn is to have actual conversations with native speakers.

[Srin Tuar]

Study the language some first. (reading/writing/grammar/vocab)
Once you finish that, read manga and watch anime.
Talk about the parts you dont understand in online language exchange forums.
You should be able to pick it up.

Ive never been to Japan, and I dont have any native speakers to talk with, but I find that I can understand about 90+% of most anime. If I rewind alot I can usually figure out the parts I missed. With an online dictionary, I can lookup terms I dont know and add them to my study list.

[JediNight]

Pick up a book series named "Genki" if you have the money. It's a 2 book series, you can find the ISBN for it on Amazon.com, but they want alot of money for it so I would look elsewhere. The Genki series is basically the standard for learning, there are also CDs to go along with the books to cover conversations.

[raikage]

Watching anime has helped slightly for me, but of course the best way to learn is to have actual conversations with native speakers.

Watching anime did not help at all until ~3rd/4th semester for me.

Until you're at the point to recognize many various forms of verbs and enough words to understand ~80-90% of the sentence anyway (i.e. only 1-2 words you don't know), you won't learn very much.

Until you're at the point to understand words despite how fast they're speaking, it won't help that much.

Uesugi-sama's classes intrigue me - especially since I live in SF. Do you have a link or something?

[AzureLight]

See, I've been learning Japanese on my own for around 7 years now, at a slow but steady pace. Before you jump to any conclusions, realise where I live. Japanese classes are very very hard to come by. Fortunately it is offered in my university (just entered this summer), but the teaching's so basic, I'll pwn the first 2 years.

Different people have different learning methods and preferences, there is no set guideline. In my case, I started with song lyrics. Then over to buying my grammar book and dictionary. I'm also fortunate to play some untranslated dating sims, the voices that go with the kanji subtitles really help a lot. Then I got my kanji dictionary, and nowadays I translate (I've Sound) songs and submitting them to AnimeLyrics (http://www.animelyrics.com/).

I must note one thing: Don't make the mistake I did by learning it fully in romaji and neglecting the writing part. By writing, you can memorise the kana and kanji better.

[Subversal08]

i read through all your stupid japanese lessons, it's obvious you have never been in a japanese class or had any instruction other than what you probably have learned off the internet... well YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JAPANESE, EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS FILLED WITH MISTAKES\MISINFORMATION... PLZZ.. STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE AND TEACHING THEM YOUR NONSENSE JAPANESE, AND GO OUT AND ACTUALLY LEARN SOME JAPANESE FROM A JAPANESE TEACHER. MAYBE THEN YOU CAN COME ON FORUMS, AND TELL PEOPLE HOW TO SPEAK JAPANESE. JUST CAUSE YOUR OBSESSED WITH ANIME AND JAPAN, DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO PRETEND YOU KNOW THE JAPANESE LANGUAGE. :frustrated: :frustrated:




















I thought it would have been done already but alas no. There may be people who are not able to get lessons so here is where you come!! I am still learning japanese and have ALOT more to learn...so I am going to say a few basic things and maybe some other people who speak or are learning it can contribute ^_^!

*~~::Okey a few notes::~~*

++As you most probably know, the japanese people are really big on manners so you have to be careful when you speak.

++Dictionary form verbs (verbs straight from the dictionary) can be rude when your speaking to people, especially elders!

++There are 3 levels of politeness (roughly anyway); there is low (dictionary), medium (the standard which lots of people use) which involves adding "masu" on words (dont worry at the moment) and the highest level of politeness which I don't know much about but adding "gozaimasu" on to the end of arigatou is being really polite ^_^

++There are 4 styles of writing...not sure if i should say styles but anyway...theres is Kanji(typical jap symbols), hiragana, romaji (english letters) and katakana...i only know hiragana at the moment but i will learn the othes eventually.

++This has nothing to do with learning Japanese but i was told by my tutour that if ya have your chop sticks facing somebody it means you want them dead...lol! thats why they have them horizontally.

++In japanese to signify that its the end of the sentence they have "desu".

++Also lots of japanese words like "desu" and "masu" end with "u"...most japanese people dont pronounce the "u" so "desu" spoken would be "des" but of course there are some parts of japan in which they do pronounce it...its your choice. In lots of animes they pronounce the "u" i think they do it coz it sounds cute sometimes ^_^

*~~::Lets start with simple things::~~*
1 = ichi (some ppl say ich)
2 = ni
3 = san
4 = shi/yon
5 = go (o is pronounced like the "o" in rob...soz thats all i can think of)
6 = roku
7 = nana/shishi
8 = hachi
9 = Ku (there is supposed to be a line above the "u"..its pronounced like "q"
10 = jyu

*~~::Greetings::~~*
Hello = kon nichi wa
goodbye = Sayonara (line above the "o")
yes = hai
no = ie (ie also means house ^_^)
thank you = arigato
Pleased to meet you = Yoroshiku (used on this board alot ^_^)
excuse me (attention) = Shitsurei
Sorry = sumimasen or gomenasai or gomen

*~~::NEXT LESSON::~~*...when i have done my homework
Subjects (like people...you, i, mum, etc)
Simple tourist questions
Questions
Days of the week
Animals

*~~::NEXT NEXT LESSON::~~*
alphabets
simple sentence structure
objects (car, window etc)
verbs(dictionary form)

and there will be more lessons which will teach ya how to convert dictionary form verbs to polite form....and also how to change the tense...but lets stick with the basics for now ^_^
P.S i most probably made some mistakes so ya can just tell me and i will fix em ^_^

[RedEyes]

This is actually interesting, I'm gonna start from scratch since I don't know the least bit of Jap.

That site with the sound prounciation p3psi gave is pretty useful.

[Animizzle]

grbmll n/m this post plz

[raikage]

i read through all your stupid japanese lessons, it's obvious you have never been in a japanese class or had any instruction other than what you probably have learned off the internet... well YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JAPANESE, EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS FILLED WITH MISTAKES\MISINFORMATION... PLZZ.. STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE AND TEACHING THEM YOUR NONSENSE JAPANESE, AND GO OUT AND ACTUALLY LEARN SOME JAPANESE FROM A JAPANESE TEACHER. MAYBE THEN YOU CAN COME ON FORUMS, AND TELL PEOPLE HOW TO SPEAK JAPANESE. JUST CAUSE YOUR OBSESSED WITH ANIME AND JAPAN, DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO PRETEND YOU KNOW THE JAPANESE LANGUAGE. :frustrated: :frustrated:

Hey and welcome to the forums!

Sorry, but there's not that much here that's wrong, as far as I can tell. All comments are in red.
I thought it would have been done already but alas no. There may be people who are not able to get lessons so here is where you come!! I am still learning japanese and have ALOT more to learn...so I am going to say a few basic things and maybe some other people who speak or are learning it can contribute ^_^!

*~~::Okey a few notes::~~*

++As you most probably know, the japanese people are really big on manners so you have to be careful when you speak.
This is, as far as I know, true. You might be able to get away with it, though, seeing as you're not a native speaker.

++Dictionary form verbs (verbs straight from the dictionary) can be rude when your speaking to people, especially elders!
See above. Using dictionary-form (casual) is a way you talk among your friends/possibly peers who aren't friends. It would be kind of odd if you were to speak to your parents using teineigo (~masu form) - since they are so close to you.

++There are 3 levels of politeness (roughly anyway); there is low (dictionary), medium (the standard which lots of people use) which involves adding "masu" on words (dont worry at the moment) and the highest level of politeness which I don't know much about but adding "gozaimasu" on to the end of arigatou is being really polite ^_^
This is sort-of correct. The dictionary form, teineigo, and keigo (which can itself be broken down into son'keigo and kenjougo).

++There are 4 styles of writing...not sure if i should say styles but anyway...theres is Kanji(typical jap symbols), hiragana, romaji (english letters) and katakana...i only know hiragana at the moment but i will learn the othes eventually.
Romaji doesn't really count as a style of writing. I don't think any Japanese person in Japan would ever use romaji.

++This has nothing to do with learning Japanese but i was told by my tutour that if ya have your chop sticks facing somebody it means you want them dead...lol! thats why they have them horizontally.
In China (and I would guess in Japan, too) having your chopsticks coming vertically out of the bowl has the same look as incense sticks coming out of someone's grave.

++In japanese to signify that its the end of the sentence they have "desu".
This is wrong - yet it's not. The verb will always come at the end of the sentence, and so if the verb used is 'desu' then it will come at the end of the sentence.

++Also lots of japanese words like "desu" and "masu" end with "u"...most japanese people dont pronounce the "u" so "desu" spoken would be "des" but of course there are some parts of japan in which they do pronounce it...its your choice. In lots of animes they pronounce the "u" i think they do it coz it sounds cute sometimes ^_^
The 'u' in these verbs is, as far as I know, often silent.

*~~::Lets start with simple things::~~*
1 = ichi (some ppl say ich)
2 = ni
3 = san
4 = shi/yon
5 = go (o is pronounced like the "o" in rob...soz thats all i can think of)
6 = roku
7 = nana/shishi
8 = hachi
9 = Ku (there is supposed to be a line above the "u"..its pronounced like "q"also kyuu
10 = jyu Actually, it's jyuu.

*~~::Greetings::~~*
Hello = kon nichi wa
goodbye = Sayonara (line above the "o")Sayounara is, as best I can tell, not used in everyday conversation. I would say to my teacher, "Dewa, mata ashita", which if processed down to among friends, "Ja, mata ashita" -> "Ja, mata" -> "Ja" -> "Ja, ne"
yes = hai
no = ie (ie also means house ^_^)Ie means house. Iie means no. Iya means you find something (presumably what was just said) very unpleasant.
thank you = arigatou
Pleased to meet you = Yoroshiku (used on this board alot ^_^)
excuse me (attention) = ShitsureiMore literal meaning of shitsurei: rude. If I wanted to get someone's attention, I would use anou... among friends or sumimasen... among those who I should be more respectful to.
Sorry = sumimasen or gomenasai gomen'nasai or gomen

*~~::NEXT LESSON::~~*...when i have done my homework
Subjects (like people...you, i, mum, etc)
Simple tourist questions
Questions
Days of the week
Animals

*~~::NEXT NEXT LESSON::~~*
alphabets
simple sentence structure
objects (car, window etc)
verbs(dictionary form)

and there will be more lessons which will teach ya how to convert dictionary form verbs to polite form....and also how to change the tense...but lets stick with the basics for now ^_^
P.S i most probably made some mistakes so ya can just tell me and i will fix em ^_^

[7thMethuselah]

I just cut out the parts I want to comment on


++In japanese to signify that its the end of the sentence they have "desu".


This is wrong! A japanese sentence always has the verb as the last word in it. That is in the case we are not counting the question mark "ka" or other such words as "yo" "ne" etc ...

So when there is a sentence is which desu is used (desu is a contracted form of the verb "to be" ) it does end the sentence. However not all sentences end with desu : for example : hon o motte kimashita : I brought a book.


*~~::Lets start with simple things::~~*
1 = ichi (some ppl say ich)
2 = ni
3 = san
4 = shi/yon
5 = go (o is pronounced like the "o" in rob...soz thats all i can think of)
6 = roku
7 = nana/shishi it's shichi not shishi, shi and chi are two very different sounds in japanese
8 = hachi
9 = Ku (there is supposed to be a line above the "u"..its pronounced like "q" actually you got it mixed up : it's Ku with a short u or Kyuu with a long u (long u's are indicated with a line above them is some romanji conventions), the difference between the two? It's more natural to use ku for small number and to use Kyuu for larger ones, although both are actually correct.
10 = jyu : it's Juu not Jyu

Notice that 4 7 and 9 have 2 different options, now in alot of cases you can use both but often only one of these two is used, which is a first difficulty when learning how to count in japanese, but this is only one of many as you will learn from my post



Ok, when learning Japanese : do NOT start with number, they are in fact NOT simple. First of all, I corrected the ones you posted. Second, allow me to explain

What you posted is the chinese set from 1 to 10, the japanese use both a chinese set of numbers (going from 1 to infinity) and a japanese set of numbers (going from 1 to 10 and a few extra numbers beyond that like 20). Now these numbers are not used in normal day conversations. The reason is simple: Japanese uses classifiers to count things : this basically means that you have to add something to these numbers depending on the object you are counting. That is what makes counting from 1 to 10 in japanese a rather tough job. If you do not add such classifiers it will be VERY difficult to know what you are talking about since in japanese it's not explicitly mentioned what they are counting : the classifier is suppose to indicate that.

Now what happens is : when you add this classifier alot of the number change into completely different words.

For example : counting flat objects (for example paper) : add -MAI
to say 1 (flat object) = ichi + mai = ichimai
2 (flat objects) ni + mai : nimai
3 (flat objects) san + mai = sammai -> here there is a sound change from n to m, this is still relatively easy since it's standard for an n to be pronounced m before a b an m or a p

Another more complicated example = counting long, slender objects (trees for example) : add - HON
1 (tree) : ichi + hon does NOT become ichihon but is in fact ippon
3 (tree) : san + hon = sambon
6 (tree) : roku + hon = roppon

To make matters worse : sometimes the numbers are no longer sound contractions like in the above mentioned examples but entirely different words which are sometimes based upon the japanese set of numbers from 1 to 10 (we've been using the chinese set from 1 to 10 up to now)

Counting persons = add -NIN

1 (person) : ichi + nin this is NOT used, the japanese use hitori instead
2 (person) becomes futari and not ni + nin
3 (person) : all you naruto fans will love this one :D san + nin becomes Sannin :)

As you can see these sound contractions are very difficult, since it takes a while to get the hang of them, especially when you realise there are dozens and dozens of classifiers in japanese.


hitori and futari are based upon the japanese numbers from 1 to ten, the ones I've been using up to now are the chinese ones, which are the ones mostly used.
Now when you are counting objects which do NOT have a classifier, it's more common in japanese to use the japanese set of numbers from 1 to 10

1 Hitotsu
2 Futatsu
3 Mittsu
4 Yottsu
5 Itsutsu
6 Muttsu
7 Nanatsu
8 Yattsu
9 Kokonotsu
10 Too

for numbers above 10, the chinese set is used instead.

Wow, long (and I hope somewhat informative) post. My advice is actually simple : when learning japanese don't start with numbers, they aren't easy at all and can easilly discourage you, learn the numbers when you get the hang of a few simple sentences allready, and slowly introduce the numbers and classifiers a few at a time, in my japanese class everyone agrees that one of the hardest things about learning japanese is in fact learning how to count, since this creates alot of extra vocabulary and it's not always easy to pick up the words when you hear them (that takes quite some practice)

If you are gonna visit japan and you want to learn a few usefull sentences, I believe it's more useful to learn how to ask a shopkeeper to write the price on a piece of paper rather than learning to understand him, japanese numbers get complicating, especially when they surpass 10 000 since the method of counting completely differs then from our own.

[MwyC]

most important web link for learning japanese....

ever

=p

http://www.jingai.com/yakuza/introduction.html

[TronDD]

(long u's are indicated with a line above them is some romanji conventions)

Since there seems to be a pissing contest going on...it's romaji, not romanji. ;)

Love, you're avatar, too.

[Roots]

most important web link for learning japanese....

ever

=p

http://www.jingai.com/yakuza/introduction.html


<<< LOL! I used this site as a reference for a Japanese class I took last Spring. In it we had to make a skit, and....hmm I can't remember it very well right now but I remember I played a Yakuza boss. :D Yakuza Japanese is very fun indeed.


ああ、さつだ！何してる、早く逃げろう！　:heh:

[DingoEnderZOE2]

How do you properly speak the word Kiru(Wear) and Kiru(Cut)? And how do you tell the difference? As a matter a fact, how are you able to tell the difference to other certain Japanese words that sounds exactly alike?

[Roots]

How do you properly speak the word Kiru(Wear) and Kiru(Cut)? And how do you tell the difference? As a matter a fact, how are you able to tell the difference to other certain Japanese words that sounds exactly alike?


You have to discern between the two based on the context of the situation. For example, if I said: 「俺は服をきる。」 You'd be more likely to think I said "I wear clothes." than "I cut clothes." in a normal situation.

That's just something you have to learn to get used to in Japanese. Lots of words/phrases phonetically sound exactly the same as others. This has a distinct advantage and disadvantage:

Disadvantage
Phrases can become ambiguous when there isn't a clear context present in the situation.

Advantage
Mangaka's and anime producers can use a hell of a lot of puns. :heh:

[ramune]

I guess I'll ask a question too.

How do you translate "When I was ___________, (something happened)." in which the blank is:

-a noun? (ex. when I was a high school student)
-an adjective? (ex. when I was young)
-a verb? (ex. when I was doing homework)

I think for noun is (noun) の時 but what about for adjectives and verbs?

[raikage]

I guess I'll ask a question too.

How do you translate "When I was ___________, (something happened)." in which the blank is:

-a noun? (ex. when I was a high school student)
-an adjective? (ex. when I was young)
-a verb? (ex. when I was doing homework)

I think for noun is (noun) の時 but what about for adjectives and verbs?

If I remember right, the way to say these would be

- 高校生時に。。。(koukousei[HS student] toki ni...)
- 宿題をするところに。。。(shukudai o suru tokoro ni...)

[thirdlc]

In this case, the difference is very simple. They have different accented syllables.

Wear: kiRU
Cut: KIru

[tbobmccoy]

Hmmm... one thing I thought I might help on politeness:

Sayounara is almost never used. It's got a kind of finality to it, although one case where this is broken is when small children go home for the day (always said Sayounara to the sensei then ^^)

Also, by saying Dewa, mata ashita you're saying (literally) See you tomarrow. So, if you're going to see someone later, but they're older than you, or a teacher, or someone who deserves respect, you would say Dewa, mata (timephrase, if tomarrow, then ashita would be fine).

Also, it's Jaa, with the double a sound.

Shitsurei is also used in a part of saying goodbye on the phone as well... when you finish a phonecall, you never say jaa, mata, you say 'shitsurei shimasu'

Oh, and Raikage, I would figure you wouldn't eat the japanese language too... if I am reading that kanji right below your name, hehe.

Anyway, the point of my message: rooma-ji sucks. It's rarely used when you get really into japanese, so don't worry about it much, learn kana and kanji and have fun! Little nit-picky things are easier to iron out when you know kana.

[Testing321]

Hey and welcome to the forums!

Sorry, but there's not that much here that's wrong, as far as I can tell. All comments are in red.

You should also address Grav's errors in the use of "I".
Gravitaion said:

I = Watashi (watashi wa)*Watashi is considered the female one*
I = Boku (boku wa) *Boku is the male version*

Zalas corrected with:

Actually watashi is neutral
Atashi/watakushi is feminine
boku and ore are both masculine forms.


Even in the most basic of Japanese lessons, you'll be using Watashi to refer to oneself, regardless of gender.

At any rate, I'm no Japanese instructor either, or even basic speaker, and wouldn't begin to try and give anyone lessons.

Instead, I will give [yet another :)] good link for learning:
http://www.nihongoresources.com/
Be aware, however, that you will have to learn hiragana up front, as this site's lessons will not show *any* romaji text. It forces you to learn the hiragana, so its a good thing.

[Syaoran]

Hi,

In order to train my writing skills, I'm writing (on paper, not pc ;) ) song lyrics from romanji to hiragana and/or katakana. Sometimes it's rather confusing, as people write sensee and others sensei, depending if they write it as it's pronounced or just the litteral kanas for it.

Anyway, while doing the Naruto Ondo song, I encountered a word in romanji finishing with "m": Naruto wa rasengam, kage bunshin. - ナルトはらせんが、かげぶんしん。

What do I need to write here ? Is it a ん or a contraction of one the m sounds ?

[LytHka]

[m] is just a pronounced version of ん but in romanji it is almost never written as a m but rather as a n. Most Japanese IME input programs will detect the n correctly. So I guess you'll be fine if you just write in rasengan.

p.s.: I'm not sure in which cases exactly is the ん pronounced as [m], but usually on the end of the words with no sentence continuations. Also, in cases like senpai it is pronounced as [sempai], I guess at a consonant following it, as well.

[Syaoran]

Thanks for your reply.
I suspected something like that :p

It's sometimes strange how certain words are pronounced differently than the written version. I'm listening often to Drama CDs, for the pronounciation, as with anime, my attention gets drawn to the anime and not the sounds ^^'

[piccahoe]

A japanese friend of mine said that only girls use" iya"...hontou desu ka?

[Syaoran]

How do you write the word in bold in hiragana ?

asufaruto no michi o kotsu kotsu to fumi susumeba
あすふぁると　の　みち　を　こつ　おつ　と　ふみ　すすめば

The bold hiragana is what IME Pad in Windows proposes ... I don't know about SCIM/SKIM Anthy under Linux yet.

[Lina Inverse]

How do you write the word in bold in hiragana ?

asufaruto no michi o kotsu kotsu to fumi susumeba
あすふぁると　の　みち　を　こつ　おつ　と　ふみ　すすめば

The bold hiragana is what IME Pad in Windows proposes...
Yes, that's correct. Although, since it's a foreign word, you'd write it in katakana:
アスファルト
Just normally type the hiragana, then press F7 to turn them into katakana.

[Pellissier]

Zalas corrected with:
Actually watashi is neutral
Atashi/watakushi is feminine
boku and ore are both masculine forms

Even in the most basic of Japanese lessons, you'll be using Watashi to refer to oneself, regardless of gender.
Uhm, I'm actually quoting a 2004 sentence, but I hope someone will have an asnwer.

It is about the "I" translation. I knew about the "watashi" being used by everyone (first thing they teach you, male or female, to use the "watashi wa" form).
I had some doubts about the "boku". I didn't hear it often, and when it happens it's used by males.

But, recently I heard an anime girl using the "boku" form for every sentence having her as subject, and for the whole series (so it wasn't used once by case).
For instance, she's Asa from Shuffle.

What does the boku used by a female represent? Is it ok, grammatically? Does it have a particular meaning, that a non japanese couldn't understand?

I was wondering a lot about this, and when I read that quote I thought of asking.

Thanks :)

[Syaoran]

Yes, that's correct. Although, since it's a foreign word, you'd write it in katakana:
アスファルト
Just normally type the hiragana, then press F7 to turn them into katakana.

Thanks for your reply ^^
All these different romanji styles make it confusing. I noticed there's even a difference when written by a english, french or dutch person.

[Mephisto2k]

Is there maybe a usefull homepage to learn few easy basic japanese suited exactly for anime/fansub fans?
for those who are not able/willing/motivated enough to take classes but who think it might be cool to know a lil bit more japanese than the few unconnecte words they pick up watching fanssubs.
A page with just simple phrases and words used in animes explained with romanji. I assume anime japanese might not be as complex as when you talk with a real japanese.
And i assume that you wont be able to understand a raw completely with that kind of simple lessons, but maybe that kind of simple lessons are enough so that you can understand a lot without subtitles and have a basic idea of japanese and are maybe able to get the most important facts and the rough plot without subtitles.
Simply lessons to support and improve the simple animejapaneseknowledge everyone gathered though watching tonns of fansubs. But a bit more advanced than just a simple dictionary and not as advanced as learning kanji and katakana.
Easy basic fast lessons made to give the average animefan a greater japanese understanding.

Is there such a homepage/book/possibility/whatever, or am i just dreaming?

[phoenixfire92983]

For really simple things, check out this site:
http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/index.html

If you really want to study harder and learn some katakana, hiragana, or kanji then check out this site:
http://rivendell.fortunecity.com/hobgoblin/1026/ranma/kn_main.html

If you want to learn how to read Japanese, then you gotta check out this site! It has a game you download. Its based off a old side project of the Sonic games created in China and teaches you katakana, hiragana, and kanji. I just started using it two days ago and I can already pick out symbols on Japanese sites.
http://www.kicl.info/

[eLcHaKeTeRo]

what books if any does any body recommend, i have a ton of stuff.....but if theres some that can be of great help....mostly for grammar and kanji.....i already know hiragana and katana and some BASIC kanji....i think a third grader can read faster then me but w/e..

[Syaoran]

I bought these books when I was in Japan last Octobre:


An integrated course in elementary Japanese - Volume I, The Japan Times (3,000 Y) An integrated course in elementary Japanese - Volume II, The Japan Times (3,000 Y) A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar - The Japan Times (2,800 Y)

Picture: http://suikun.free.fr/images/IMG_1117.JPG (2.2 MB )

You can find more information about it on http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/

[Takeru]

For all the people talking about the "feminine" word for I in japanese... Japanese is not a male/female/plural language like spanish (ex: chiko/chika)
The only "feminine" that japanese has is that some words have お infront of them that men aren't expected to pronounce but women are. (ex: boxed lunch [men]べんと [women]おべんと)

[eLcHaKeTeRo]

I bought these books when I was in Japan last Octobre:


An integrated course in elementary Japanese - Volume I, The Japan Times (3,000 Y) An integrated course in elementary Japanese - Volume II, The Japan Times (3,000 Y) A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar - The Japan Times (2,800 Y)

Picture: http://suikun.free.fr/images/IMG_1117.JPG (2.2 MB )

You can find more information about it on http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/

yeah, i already have these.....even others.....everyone who is tryin to learn Japanese also needs a good kanji dictionary, but thanks anyway

[rale]

But, recently I heard an anime girl using the "boku" form for every sentence having her as subject, and for the whole series (so it wasn't used once by case).
For instance, she's Asa from Shuffle.

What does the boku used by a female represent? Is it ok, grammatically? Does it have a particular meaning, that a non japanese couldn't understand?

I was wondering a lot about this, and when I read that quote I thought of asking.

Thanks :)

In relation to anime and game characters, this character type is usually called ボクっ娘, or bokukko.

Boku is mainly used by boys, so a girl using it all the time is meant to clue you in that she's a tomboy type character.

[Pellissier]

In relation to anime and game characters, this character type is usually called ボクっ娘, or bokukko.

Boku is mainly used by boys, so a girl using it all the time is meant to clue you in that she's a tomboy type character.
Oh I see, thank you for the explanation :)

[Lina Inverse]

For all the people talking about the "feminine" word for I in japanese... Japanese is not a male/female/plural language like spanish (ex: chiko/chika)
The only "feminine" that japanese has is that some words have お infront of them that men aren't expected to pronounce but women are. (ex: boxed lunch [men]べんと [women]おべんと)
Sorry, but that's not correct :rolleyes:
It's true that Japanese words have neither male/female/neutrum gender nor singlular/plural distinction, but it *does* have lots of words that are "male speech" (to be used by me only) or "female speech" (to be used by women only). Recently though, some girls have started using the male-only "boku". You also might find this in anime where girls portrayed as tomboy often use "boku".

Concerning the prefixed お- (o-), it has *nothing* to do with male or female, but it is a *polite* speech pattern regardless which gender you are.
e.g. おべんとう obentô (ô=long o) is more polite than べんとう bentô.

[sanghyun1990]

Is Hanja and Kanji same thing?

[Catgirls]

Is Hanja and Kanji same thing?Hmmm...well...

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanja Hanja, or hanmun, sometimes translated as Sino-Korean characters, are what Chinese characters (hanzi) are called in Korean. More precisely, the name refers to those characters borrowed by Koreans and incorporated into the Korean language with the pronunciation adjusted to fit Korean phonetics. Unlike the Japanese kanji, which has altered and simplified many characters, hanja are almost entirely identical to modern traditional Chinese hanzi, although a minority of the standard characters of hanja are variant hanzi also used in standard kanji.Clicking on the above link will give you a ton of good info. This is a good site to bookmark that can answer many question like that: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page).

Cheers. :)

[琥珀]

Microsoft IME 2003 Support Page (http://support.microsoft.com/ph/7714?ln=ja)

If you have learned a little Japanese, having some problems/questions on Japanese IMEs, just go to this page, and you can find some useful techniques.

[piccahoe]

Heres a great podcast that teaches you basic japanese.

http://www.japanesepod101.com

here are the prevous podcast in mp3 format:
http://www.japanesepod101.com/podcasts/

[Akira Raine]

omfg this thread ROCKS!!! I've been DYING to learn some japanese. I have a friend that teaches me, but he's not on all the time. And i've gots some questions, cuz i know a little bit of Japanese myself.

Doesn't Hajimemashite mean Nice to meet you (be kind to me)?

and what does Donna Toki Deatte zutto futari de mean? ( i think that's the sentence, i'll double check though) It's from the song Hikari ((nihongo version of Simple and Clean from Kingom hearts))

oh yeah, and i only know Romanji. i don't know thesymbols and stuff, i just want to learn to speak it first.

[Li Jianliang]

Doesn't Hajimemashite mean Nice to meet you (be kind to me)?
Yes, but "Be kind to me" is more like "Yoroshiku onegaishimasu".
and what does Donna Toki Deatte zutto futari de mean? ( i think that's the sentence, i'll double check though) It's from the song Hikari ((nihongo version of Simple and Clean from Kingom hearts))
Since "Donna toki datte Zutto futari de" is from a song, those words don't really compose a sentence. Japanese lyrics are notorious for having no apparent beginnings or ends or even basic meaning, in the words of a native-speaker who I know. Anyways, that phrase means "At anytime, we're always together".

[Cloudnine]

Doesn't Hajimemashite mean Nice to meet you (be kind to me)?
Yes, 'nice to meet you' it is the english equivalent, though normally you would use only during your first meeting. It's replaced by konnichiwa (こんにちは) afterwards.

and what does Donna Toki Deatte zutto futari de mean? ( i think that's the sentence, i'll double check though) It's from the song Hikari ((nihongo version of Simple and Clean from Kingom hearts))
A rough translation would be, "No matter when, we'll always be together." (though note that Japanese pop Lyrics are regularly vague and highly interpretive) There's probably more to the line in the next verse.

[Akira Raine]

yes, well i read two of the lines, It ges Donna Toki Deatte zutto futari de then it goes back to Donna Toki Deatte again.

Oh and a couple more wors (i just wanna see if i'm right)

Warau= laugh or smile
Eien= eternity
Kokoro= Heart
Yume= Dream
Mune= also means heart?
bokutachi wa= we
o-genai= please
Kao= face
Suteki da ne?= Isn't it beautiful (name of a FF song)
ni= in (that's what my friend taught me) or a preposition of some sort
Ringo= Apple
Shinario= scenery?
Hikari= Light
Kami= Darkness
ka= used to indicate question, kinda like a ?
wa= used to indicate subject

the ones with ?'s i'm not really sure on. But i was just wondering how accurate some of these are.

[phoenixfire92983]

o-genai= please
Kami= Darkness

Two popped out to me... I think kami actually refers to god.

And please = onegai ...you have the letters mixed up.

[Quarkboy]

Two popped out to me... I think kami actually refers to god.

And please = onegai ...you have the letters mixed up.

kami = god, paper, hair, or seasoning... depending on the kanji it's spelled with :)

He was probably thinking of "Yami" which means darkness.

[Li Jianliang]

yes, well i read two of the lines, It ges Donna Toki Deatte zutto futari de then it goes back to Donna Toki Deatte again.

Oh and a couple more wors (i just wanna see if i'm right)

the ones with ?'s i'm not really sure on. But i was just wondering how accurate some of these are.
Warau = to laugh
Mune = chest; but can also be interpreted as 'heart', depending on context
Bokutachi wa = we are...; as for us...
Suteki da ne? = Isn't it Wonderful?; or, Wonderful, isn't it?
ni = at; in; on; to; from; by; into; for; as; and.... There are many ways to interpret 'ni', depending on context
Shinario = scenario
Yami = darkness

[Lina Inverse]

Kokoro= Heart
Mune= also means heart?
"kokoro" means "heart" in a figurative sense, while "mune" is rather "breast" than "heart".
The anatomical word for "heart" is "shinzô".

bokutachi wa= we
This consists of "boku" (informal male speech) plus "tachi" (plural modifier for persons), although in informal speech, "bokura" is more common for "we" (male speech).
Formal (normal speech) would be "watashitachi".

o-genai= please
That's "o-negai" (o- denotes politeness).

Kami= Darkness
No, "kami" means "god/goddess".
"Darkness" is "yami".

[Akira Raine]

my bad, i forgot >< i meant to say Yami an I meant to say Onegai Sorry my bad typos! ><

What does yo and wo mean?

[Quarkboy]

my bad, i forgot >< i meant to say Yami an I meant to say Onegai Sorry my bad typos! ><

What does yo and wo mean?

yo is a sentence ending particle that emphasizes the statement:

Ringo wa oishii desu. - Apples are delicious.
Ringo wa oishii desu yo. - Apples are delicious, don't cha know? or Apples are delicious (you fool who doesn't realize this fact needs to accept it as truth!)

It's kind a tricky.

wo is a particle which marks the direct object of a verb:

watashi wa ringo wo tabemashita - I ate an apple.
here, the "wo" marks "ringo" (apple), as the direct object for "taberu"(to eat). The "wa" is the subject/topic marker (which one depends on whether there is also a "ga" particle... that's an area of debate even among japanese grammatical scholars).

Now, you need to be careful with this. Judging from what I said above, you might expect that to say "I like apples" in japanese, you'd say "watashi wa ringo wo suki desu." But that is incorrect.
In this case, you'd say "watashi wa ringo ga suki desu." because the adjective "suki" to like acts as an transitive verb and therefore takes "ga" and not "wo"...

[Zappster]

I've got a question. I heard this line from the anime Noein and I'm just wondering what "form" (if that is the right word to use) the verb is in.

The line is this " Haruka wo Sagasanakya". This is what I hear, I'm not sure if I've written it down correctly. Now I've recently been studying some verb forms and one of these was the addition of -nakereba narimasen/ikimasen to express a need to do that verb(if that makes sense). The textbook I was working from also mentioned that a colloquial form of this was -nakerya at the end of the nai stem of the verb.

Am I right in my thinking that "Sagasanakya" is basically just a contracted version of that colloquial form or is it something else entirely?

[Quarkboy]

I've got a question. I heard this line from the anime Noein and I'm just wondering what "form" (if that is the right word to use) the verb is in.

The line is this " Haruka wo Sagasanakya". This is what I hear, I'm not sure if I've written it down correctly. Now I've recently been studying some verb forms and one of these was the addition of -nakereba narimasen/ikimasen to express a need to do that verb(if that makes sense). The textbook I was working from also mentioned that a colloquial form of this was -nakerya at the end of the nai stem of the verb.

Am I right in my thinking that "Sagasanakya" is basically just a contracted version of that colloquial form or is it something else entirely?

Yes, you are correct.

The form means "must" and there are various different formalities of it (from most formal to least formal)

tabenakereba naranai
tabenakereba ikenai
tabenakkya ikenai
tabenakkya

all mean the same thing "must eat"

naranai is more often seen in written japanese. Also, in spoken japanese you would use the polite forms "tabenakereba ikemasen" or "tabenakkya ikemasen". The shortest one would only be used for informal speach (so is often heard in anime).

[Zappster]

Excellent. Thanks for that. Looks like my self teaching is starting to pay off. I can actually understand some of the stuff in animes. Still along way off though, I've not even started to learn kanji yet, which seems like it will be extremely difficult though I figure it's best to start on that once I've properly got my Hiragana and Katakana learnt(about 3/4s of the way there).

[piccahoe]

urusai (annoying)
kare (he)
kanojo (she)
kanera (they - refering to a group of males)
kanojora (they refering to a group of females)
choushi - Contion
choushi wa dou ? hows are you doing?

I'm still learning too =)

[Xess]

Is there maybe a usefull homepage to learn few easy basic japanese suited exactly for anime/fansub fans?
for those who are not able/willing/motivated enough to take classes but who think it might be cool to know a lil bit more japanese than the few unconnecte words they pick up watching fanssubs.
A page with just simple phrases and words used in animes explained with romanji. I assume anime japanese might not be as complex as when you talk with a real japanese.
And i assume that you wont be able to understand a raw completely with that kind of simple lessons, but maybe that kind of simple lessons are enough so that you can understand a lot without subtitles and have a basic idea of japanese and are maybe able to get the most important facts and the rough plot without subtitles.
Simply lessons to support and improve the simple animejapaneseknowledge everyone gathered though watching tonns of fansubs. But a bit more advanced than just a simple dictionary and not as advanced as learning kanji and katakana.
Easy basic fast lessons made to give the average animefan a greater japanese understanding.

Is there such a homepage/book/possibility/whatever, or am i just dreaming?


I'm sure being able to understand anime is actually much harder than having a casual conversation with a Japanese person. Unless you want to get into a debate about some obscure topic.

Generally, you just have to know the language, culture and slang to be able to understand stuff on TV. Anime is about anything and everything and the difficulty varies from show to show. To have a better understanding, learn the slangs and such as school textbook stuff just seem to focus on really formal sayings and not stuff you'd ever use with your friends or family.

Those textbooks also teach stuff like 'anata' since it makes it easier for an English speaker to follow, but 'anata' is honestly not a very polite way of addressing someone. It's always best to either use their name or title or nothing at all if possible. And also the failure to note that 'yasahii' also means kind and not just easy, even though 'yasashii' to mean kind is the more common use of that word.

[Syaoran]

I have a little question concerning the age in Japanese...
20-years old, can be にじゅっさい but often はたち is used.

Is hatachi only for 20 years old or do you make combinations with it such as はたちご as you would do with にじゅうごさい?

[Quarkboy]

I have a little question concerning the age in Japanese...
20-years old, can be にじゅっさい but often はたち is used.

Is hatachi only for 20 years old or do you make combinations with it such as はたちご as you would do with にじゅうごさい?

Hatachi is special for 20 years old. There was something culturally significant about being 20 which is why it has a special word for it... but I forget what right now...

[sorvani]

Hatachi is special for 20 years old. There was something culturally significant about being 20 which is why it has a special word for it... but I forget what right now...

20 is when you become an adult. can vote, drink, smoke, etc.

Second monday of January every year is Adult's Day. it's a day for everyone who turned 20 in the past year, or upcoming year i can never remember which, to celebrate turning 20.

[Syaoran]

Ok :)
Thanks for your advise.

[Nisemono]

For anyone who doesnt know..but I'm sure most people do..Um if you need help with translations you can get Japanese to english dictionarys for like six bucks and it has the kanji and katakana(sp) it helps me tons.

[sorvani]

got a question about sa. the memorization chart i got from my sensei shows it as 3 strokes. but anytime i see it typed it looks like 2.

さ <-- the swoosh at the bottom of the downstroke leading into the final bottom stroke. it looks like one solid stroke in this, but on the chart it is 3 the swoosh it not solid.

edit: oh and i can't figure out how to type the second character ッ as she used it in my last name.. ブッシュ (Busch)

[Quarkboy]

got a question about sa. the memorization chart i got from my sensei shows it as 3 strokes. but anytime i see it typed it looks like 2.

さ <-- the swoosh at the bottom of the downstroke leading into the final bottom stroke. it looks like one solid stroke in this, but on the chart it is 3 the swoosh it not solid.


One of the few subtle differences between typeset hiragana and hand written hiragana. The "standard" fonts like MS Mincho have "sa" and "ki" with 2 and 3 strokes respectively. But when written by hand, the lower part that looks like a "c" is drawn with 2 strokes. There are similar differences in hand written kanji and typeset kanji (not to mention stroke counting strangeness) where things have more strokes than they seem to or vica verca. This is all because of the slow evolution of writting styles and simplification of characters, so some things (like stroke count) actually count the OLD way of writing things... well, in the end, you jst have to memorize it :).

[Syaoran]

*never mind*

Can someone delete this ?

[Swann]

Question is gone so now gone with the answer.

[Syaoran]

Hi,

I got our reply by email notification... Thanks.

After I had been thinking a little about the best way to start with it, I got rid of the question actually. It's like you said... I'm gonna focus on the ones from section 2 instead of trying to learn all the others as well. I'll probably pick up the meaning of the others if they come along often.

I'm sorry if I offended you by removing the question m(_ _)m

[Furudanuki]

Could someone please tell me if there is any significant difference between doo shite and nan de when used as an interrogative "why"? Would one be prefered over the other for general usage? Thanks!

[Fel]

"doushite" is more formal, like "why is that so?"
"nande" is more like WTF

[Luminare]

In essence　they are synonyms, although "doushite" is much more flexible than "nande".

And yes, one is more formal than the other, although the difference is more subtle than "why is that so" vs. "WTF".

[Quarkboy]

"doushite" is more formal, like "why is that so?"
"nande" is more like WTF

Hmm, if I had to articulate it, other than sheer formality differences,

doushite is an in inquiry as to why. it does not presuppose any bias towards the situation. it does not imply any prejudgement by the speaker.
nande is also an inquiry as to why, but it implies that the speaker is also questioning the validity/purpose of the situation. i.e. they don't understand why, and have a predisposed feeling that the situation wasn't neccesary in the first place.

Example: A-san: I got a job at Macdonald's yesterday!
B-san: doushite? (politely asking why... does not pass judgement)
or B-san: nande? (asking why, what for? perhaps B-san hates macdonalds, or A-san has plenty of cash and doesn't need a job. )

correspondingly, "nande" sounds more surprised than "doushite".

[Furudanuki]

Fel, Luminare and Quarkboy - Thank you all for your replies to my question. I do appreciate the help!

[Shiokaze]

Why is Katakana used for character names in Japanese Anime? I was taught that Katakana was used for Japanese words that had an origin outside Japan like Kanada and Amerika.

[Syaoran]

Is it always used ?
Often you get to see the names in Kanji.

Maybe when it's a silly one like Gohan or Ichigo, to avoid confusion with the actual thing it represents?

[Potatochobit]

usually that shows the name is of foreign decent even if it was originally japanese. being foreign doesnt just mean in or from a different country though. maybe special or different. also katakana gives a manly impression i think and some words have always been in katakana since long ago.

[raikage]

Maybe when it's a silly one like Gohan or Ichigo, to avoid confusion with the actual thing it represents?

This is the one I've heard. To show that it's someone's name being used (Ichigo) and not the item (strawberry).

[SomeWhiteGuy]

Hm... Interesting. It might help a lot for people who wish to learn Kanji before learning the hiragana meaning behind each. Just a little odd, not to many people learn it in that order though.

Kanji can divided to 5 part
1,　― HORIZONTAL LINE
2, | VERTICAL LINE
3, ノ DIAGONAL LINE (ノ):
4, ヽ DOT or BACK DIAGONAL LINE (ヽ):
5, 乙 It's a good start, but you might need a custom key for custom weird chars. Like the !@#$ed up line in the kanji for week

[raikage]

<---- *is slightly confused*

[ayyo]

Just ignore the spam advertisement and move on =.= He registered just to copy and paste that and even made threads on other forums. Unless I'm a blockhead, I don't see how that would help learn anything anyway.

[Humarl]

japanese lessons site
i really wanna learn

[Red-Razor]

if i ever get the change to learn is i would do that but i have 1 problem
i am dutch so i speak dutch :P
i can also speak english like most of you writing is the only problem:P
but i am learning german but i suck in that so japanes isnt that smart to learn on this moment :P
i also want to learn other languages but time will come for that

but i realy want to learn japanes and french

[sorvani]

to use examples reelvant to this forum..

read manga - まんがをよみます
watch anime - アニメをみます

わたしは - left off on purpose..

i realize they are masu form. i'm only a beginer and following how my sensei teaches, her opinion is no matter how simple it may sound, it is bet to be simple and correctly understood than not be polite when you HAVE to be... but i can't figure out how to put them in the same sentence.

read manga and watch anime

i read over last night's class notes again but all i can figure out is how i'm supposed to use i and na adjectives together with de and such.

[Quarkboy]

to use examples reelvant to this forum..

read manga - まんがをよみます
watch anime - アニメをみます

but i can't figure out how to put them in the same sentence.

read manga and watch anime


To do that in japanese, you'll need to learn what's called the "te" form of verbs (well, that's the simplest way). So the sentence which is "read manga and watch anime" is:
まんがをよんで、アニメをみます。

This actually however, implies that you will first read manga, and the second watch anime, in that order. To say something like "I'll read manga, and watch anime (not neccesarily in that order, or exclusively only do those things)", you'd need a different grammatical construction called the "-tari" construction. It'd go like this:
まんがをよんだり、アニメをみたりします。

You'll learn both of these soon, in your first year of japanese.

[Shini_GamI]

Ahh.... japanese lesson eh? im having this subject right now at school. It's pretty fun learning Japanese. Right now i mastered the hiragana chart(well not really mastered but i can recognise them right away for pretty much all of the hiragana, its just the "ru" and "ro" that confuses me a bit lol). We're going to learn Katakana soon ^^ lol, only knows a few *sob*. For Kanji, i 0wn3d em lolz..... well, i mean Kanji are as easy as a piece of cake. Why? It's cause i have chinese background! :P heh..... but, well, that only gave me very little advantages in learning japanese since the meanings of each kanji means the same in chinese. But the way you pronounce it or even put together in a sentence are very different. But i pretty much love this subject....

oops, off-topic here :(
here, a sentence :P
すきな かもくは 日本語 です!
which means my favourite subject is Japanese!
Heres one for you...
すきな たべもの は なん ですか?
What's your favourite food???

[raikage]

Ahh.... japanese lesson eh? im having this subject right now at school. It's pretty fun learning Japanese. Right now i mastered the hiragana chart(well not really mastered but i can recognise them right away for pretty much all of the hiragana, its just the "ru" and "ro" that confuses me a bit lol). We're going to learn Katakana soon ^^ lol, only knows a few *sob*. For Kanji, i 0wn3d em lolz..... well, i mean Kanji are as easy as a piece of cake. Why? It's cause i have chinese background! :P heh..... but, well, that only gave me very little advantages in learning japanese since the meanings of each kanji means the same in chinese. But the way you pronounce it or even put together in a sentence are very different. But i pretty much love this subject....

oops, off-topic here :(
here, a sentence :P
すきな かもくは 日本語 です!
which means my favourite subject is Japanese!
Heres one for you...
すきな たべもの は なん ですか?
What's your favourite food???

You didn't write, "favorite" as much as you wrote, "thing I like".

[Shini_GamI]

You didn't write, "favorite" as much as you wrote, "thing I like".
waah, really? that's what my teacher told me lol..... maybe she probably mean the subject i liked the most :S.... my bad

[raikage]

It's pretty close. You'd likely get the same answer. http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/9933/shrug8zo.gif

I would put, "ichiban" in front of "suki-na" to make it, "numer one-liked" or pretty much, "favorite."

[sorvani]

To say something like "I'll read manga, and watch anime (not neccesarily in that order, or exclusively only do those things)", you'd need a different grammatical construction called the "-tari" construction. It'd go like this:
まんがをよんだり、アニメをみたりします。

You'll learn both of these soon, in your first year of japanese.
thanks Quarkboy. i won't be able to take the second half of the class until the spring 2007 semester because of work. i hope i don't forget too much.

[Erikku]

im kinda trying to start lerning japanese whats the best way to do that?

[diabolistic]

From what I've picked up, you never refer to other people with "You" either.. it's bad form.

The hardest part about Japanese would be the particles.. I had no clue how I learned them for Chinese, but it helps that I've got a grasp on that concept.

I think the best way to learn Japanese is to live in Japan ^^

A few helpful phrases that got me through some situations.... I used these phrases in this order, too -_-

~eki made, ryoukin wa ikura desuka?
"How much is the fare to ~ station?"

Takushii o yonde kudasai
"Call a taxi, please."

Eigo no dekiru hito wa imasuka?
"Is there someone who can speak English?"

As for english..some japanese sentences (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=sentences)

[Sakura-chan]

im kinda trying to start lerning japanese whats the best way to do that?
Find a class!

[Zero Shinohara]

its not neccesary to say desu after everything but it signifys that you have finished speaking ^_^

It is if you're Suisei Seki! And I personally would find it cute as hell.

[sanghyun1990]

http://user.chollian.net/~bing1010/bu2/chbusu/214htm/214gif/106.gif

how would you read this in Japaense.

[raikage]

By itself (white)? Haku ( はく ).

As a descriptor (white <insert object here>)? Shiro-i ( 白い ).

[sanghyun1990]

By itself (white)? Haku ( はく ).

As a descriptor (white <insert object here>)? Shiro-i ( 白い ). wow, so i guess my last name would be haku in Japaense.

[sorvani]

wow, so i guess my last name would be haku in Japaense.
well since you are apparently not japanese, your last　name would still be White(assumption since you said haku) just in kana.

most likely: ワイーテ　or something similar, i'm no expert on the language, but names are pretty fun. they don't help with my word memorization but meh ....

[sanghyun1990]

well since you are apparently not japanese, your last　name would still be White(assumption since you said haku) just in kana.

most likely: ワイーテ　or something similar, i'm no expert on the language, but names are pretty fun. they don't help with my word memorization but meh .... Well I am Korean and if you transalte my last name Beck (백) in Chinese it is call Baihttp://user.chollian.net/~bing1010/bu2/chbusu/214htm/214gif/106.gif and it means white.

[wao]

Yeah, that would be Haku... but to sound like an anal freak I should point out that "white" in katakana is usually spelt as ホワイト or possibly ワイト (I think ホワイト is more common?).... ワイーテ would be "waite" (not like wait, more like waii in hawaii, and te in TEH WIN.)

[samurai666]

Those of you that use Firefox might find this extension useful.

Moji (https://addons.mozilla.org/addon.php?id=145)

Dictionaries (http://moji.mozdev.org/)

This extension allows you to look up the definition of Kanji characters with a simple right click. Install the extension, then install the dictionaries, restart Firefox and you're all set.

http://moji.mozdev.org/shots/word.png

[Syaoran]

Wow samurai666. That is a very interesting plugin :o

[zalas]

While the dictionary feature isn't that impressive to me (probably because that's kind of what you expect), the presentation and layout of it looked really nice, and I am impressed by the furigana approach.

(Meanwhile, I'm just using online dictionaries via Opera's "search engine" feature)

[Gaiarth]

You know, I never realised Opera had the translation feature! When I came across kanji I didn't know, I've been sitting here with my dictionary counting strokes on really small typed characters like an idiot...


Of course, I'm going to say that I deliberately did it that way, because looking it up makes you remember it better :heh:

[Thalarian]

:D Hey everyone, first time posting.

I'm finally looking to bite the bullet and learn Japanese, then hopefully move on to written Japanese (Kanji, Kana, etc.)

I've wanted to do this for a long time, and there's a few kickers now that are driving me.

1. Definently going to visit Japan some day (After college of course.), and would like to know the language of the land when I get there, so I can worry less about what the hell is being said everywhere, and more about the trip itself.

2. I import MANY items from Japan. Games (Fate/UBW/HF is the latest), as well as mangas/doujins/animes. I know it's pretty stupid to import something you can't fully appreciate, but would rather have it and learn to understand it at a later date, then to finally learn and find I can't get said item anywhere anymore.

Anyways, I guess I'm asking everyone for tips and tricks to how everyone went about learning it, and also some advice. Try to assimilate where everyone started and kinda go my own way from there. Also how long it took many people to fully learn it. I know it's difficult to self teach, and I know for a fact I won't learn it overnight, I mean, it is another language. :) Just looking for a good foothold to start.

So far I'm thinking about buying a few audio CD's from the local book store. (They run about 8 hours a piece I believe) and they are broken in from Basic, Advanced and Advanced Terminology. Listen to them and trying to learn that way.

So, for those of you that have any advice, feel free to scream it out at me. Also any advice on where to move on after Japanese in regards to learning written Japanese would be extremely helpful as well.

Thanks!

Chris

[Keios]

Hey hoy!

I've been self-studying Japanese for a few weeks now. So far I've used Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Grammar (http://www.guidetojapanese.org) and a kanji-dictionary. The guide doesn't use romaji at all and kanji are introduced right from the beginning, which in my opinion, is a good thing, but whatever works for you. :)

I started off by memorizing hiragana and katakana and then moving to basic grammar... well, that was quite obvious. :/

But I'm just a newbie. ^^ Let's wait for someone who actually knows about these things to answer ;) . Just stay away from romaji! :uhoh: