[Spoilers] Yumi's "image"

[pyu]

This is a question that popped up in my mind after reading that Kanako (Yumi's stalker) thread...

Since the anime is 100% in Yumi's perceptive, we hardly get to see what the other Lillian students (other than her friends in the student council) think of her. Especially after her elevation to the status of a bouton...

Do they worship the ground she walks on (like Kanako? *shudders* And how in the world did Kanako get that "princess" image in her mind?...) or simply treat her normally?

I also read (from that Kanako thread...) that Yumi actually has a group male admirers from Hanedera! How in the world did that happened? :heh:

Any information (I adore spoilers!) would be appreciated... :)

[kj1980]

This is a question that popped up in my mind after reading that Kanako (Yumi's stalker) thread...

Since the anime is 100% in Yumi's perceptive, we hardly get to see what the other Lillian students (other than her friends in the student council) think of her. Especially after her elevation to the status of a bouton...

Do they worship the ground she walks on (like Kanako? *shudders* And how in the world did Kanako get that "princess" image in her mind?...) or simply treat her normally?

I also read (from that Kanako thread...) that Yumi actually has a group male admirers from Hanedera! How in the world did that happened? :heh:

Any information (I adore spoilers!) would be appreciated... :)


It is noted in the novel that once Yumi became Sachiko's soeur, she was worried about backlash against her, especially those who were admirers of Sachiko. On the contrary, despite her worries, the students at Lillian somehow got the idea that Yumi would be perfect as Sachiko's soeur. As one of the students put it:

"I'm glad you Yumi-san is part of Yamayurikai...the student council seems much more closer with Yumi-san in it."

Before, the image of the Yamayurikai was somewhat of a "holistic place" beyond the reach of the regular students. One of Youko's dillemma was that such a beautified image of the Yamayurikai as "untouchable" is keeping away students from coming to the bara no yakata for advice or just to chat - which is what the Yamayurikai is supposed to be for, since it is a student body council. Hence, Youko wanted to use the Valentine's Day event to more openly welcome the students into the bara no yakata. The anime did not touch upon a certain chapter in the novel in which Youko expresses that "today is the greatest day of my life" upon seeing Lillian students openly walking in, chatting with the members, and using the Yamayurikai as what it was supposed to be for.

Hence it may seem that Yumi is kind of out-of-place as a member of the Yamayurikai for being Sachiko's soeur. Even Yumi herself had the image of the bara no yakata being somewhat an "untouchable" place (refer to the scene where she and Tsutako-san go to the Yamayurikai in the first episode). She even asks the question, "is it okay for me to come to this place in such a manner" to Shimako-san. And one would assume why such an image had been developed within the Lillian students by looking at the members of the Yamayurikai... But now that a person who is "more closer to the students" (Yumi) has joined the Yamayurikai, the students see the council as something more closer to them as well.


As Yumi, Yoshino, and Shimako become second year students, they too will become the target of admiration by the new first year students. In the second year,

Red Rose Family
Sachiko-sama - Rosa Chinensis
Yumi-sama - Rosa Chinensis en bouton

Yellow Rose Family
Rei-sama - Rosa Foetida
Yoshino-sama - Rosa Foetida en bouton

White Rose Family
Shimako-sama - Rosa Gigantea

read no further unless you want some spoilers


Regarding how the new students see and admire Yumi, Yoshino and Shimako - might be covered in this season if it goes to "Rainy Blue"
Yumi and Yoshino are now the next budding roses and they become the source of high admiration by students. Shimako, is the head of the white rose in her second year, which makes her with an even more admiration. In one chapter of "Rainy Blue," as Yumi, Yoshino, and Shimako walk the school corridor with a thought in their minds, the following event takes place:

group of first year students - "okay, are you girls ready? Let's go!" [goes up to Yumi, Yoshino, and Shimako as they walk by]
group of first year students - "Gokigenyou! Rosa Chinensis en bouton, Rosa Foetida en bouton, Rosa Gigantea!"
Yumi, Yoshino, and Shimako - "Gokigenyou..." [all three walk by with a thought in their mind]
group of first year students - "sigh...the boutons and the white rose look so beautiful even in melancholy..."

Regarding the Hanadera students who confesses their love to Yumi - most likely will not be covered this season but might on a third season if there is one
When the Yamayurikai (this time with an added member of Nijou Noriko as the new Rosa Gigantea en bouton) goes over to Hanadera to help them out in their cultural festival, Yumi gets "kidnapped" by several Hanadera students who thought she was Yuuki ^^;

When the students who "kidnapped" Yumi finds out that they in fact took a member of Lillian Yamayurikai's Rosa Chinensis en bouton, they go deep into gloom as if it were the end of their world. Irritated at these guys indecisiveness on what to do next, Yumi starts ordering these guys what to do to get out of their mess...

Yumi's brother, Yuuki finds the guys who "kidnapped" Yumi. However, Yumi has already taken care of the situation and she has already left the room. When questioned by Yuuki, the three guys all professed:

"Man, she was awesome!"
"No wonder she is the Rosa Chinensis en bouton!"
"We have to admit, we all fell in love with her!!"

Yuuki utters, "You guys open your mouth once again, and I'll beat the crap out of you"


Regarding one scene where a first year student confesses her admiration to Yumi
At Lillian's Sport Day event, the Yamayurikai members are busy in setting up and making this event a success, while juggling between their own class' team. At the end of the event, you have the usual tradition of dancing around the bonfire to the tune of "Oklahoma Mixer." Yumi joins the circle, and there is one scene where Yumi's partner is a nervous first year student who squeezes out her courage to say:

nervous first year student: "Umm...ah...Yumi-sama!"
Yumi: "Wha...yes?"
nervous first year student: "I...I just wanted to say it is very big pleasure to be your partner right now...I...I am a big admirer of Yumi-sama from the first time I saw you at the welcoming ceremony...I am really happy...and...I...what am I saying?"
Yumi: "Why, thank you very much!"
nervous first year student: "No, no Yumi-sama, I thank you! I will treasure this event in my memory!!"


Hope those answers help out.

[pyu]

Thanks a million, kj1980!

... but how in the world did the Hanadera students mistake Yumi for Yuuki?!?!

/laughs out lound at that particular mental image.

[Sweets Yumi]

I think that Yumi is taken so well as a member of the Yamayurikai by the other students at Lillian is because she's an normal girl who never would have been allowed into the Yamayurikai, just the right events allowed it to happen.

And therefore as just another 'plain jane' ;) for her to make it into the Yamayurikai, is almost like being in the Yamayurikai themselves for all the other normal girls on campus. Therefore Yumi is one of them and they feel safe with their own. :)

She's only their for Sachiko not wanting to be in the Cinderella play, and that reason alone. She would have asked anyone. If Tsutako happened to be standing there instead of Yumi when Sachiko burst through the door in a huff, she would have asked Tsutako.

Sachiko couldn't care less, just as long as she wasn't in the play.

Furthur evidence is the parading of the giving of the rosary in front of the other Yamayurikai members. I'm almost 100% sure that every-other rosary ceremony was private between the giver and reciever of rosarys. And not paraded like Sachiko had intended to do.

Then when Sachiko was told that Yumi or no Yumi she, Sachiko, was still going to be Cinderella regardless. Youko asked, do you still intend to have Yumi as a soeur? And Sachiko said, of course, don't insult me.

That reason alone, to save face with her big sister, is what Sachiko used to keep after Yumi and even make a big mission, like she did.


One other obvious reason is that she didn't even remember having met Yumi! She could have just as well and tied 20 girls knots that day. If only for Tsutako having been there for Yumi's knot tying that a picture was able to be produced. And then Sachiko went along like, of course I know who Yumi is.



So like I say. A normal girl like Yumi would never have been in the Yamayurikai, if not for the fact that Sachiko just needed to have the position filled.

So a common girl making it in, is almost like all the other common girls making it in too, sort of making her a local hero! ^o^


EDIT: I noticed as I tried to explain my feeling, this came out sounding like I was being negative towards Yumi(which wasn't my aim). I tried to fix it a little better. :)

[kj1980]

Thanks a million, kj1980!

... but how in the world did the Hanadera students mistake Yumi for Yuuki?!?!

/laughs out lound at that particular mental image.

Long story short,

Let Yumi wear a Hanadera uniform and a bandana to hide her hairstyle, and you get Yuuki.

[Sweets Yumi]

*haha* Sorry to post again, but I thought I'd get a reply to what I wrote (maybe no one read it :( )

Do you guys think how I'm viewing Sachiko and the point of Yumi being a Rose is accurate?

Don't you guys think that Sachiko REALLY DID just pick Yumi for the simple reason of her just being THERE?

Any other views? :)

[pyu]

In my personal opinion, Sachiko (at that time) didn't really bother herself with the task of having a petite soeur.

Yeah, Yumi just happens to be at the right place at the ... right time. Of course, dear Yumi grows on everyone. I suppose this is fate.

Of course, one wonders what would happened if Shimako had accepted Sachiko's offer (quite impossible, I know) instead of Sei's and then Yumi got targeted by Sei to be hers... *chuckles evilly*

[atua]

Whilst it might've been a pure coincidence that Yumi was asked the first time, I don't think that changes the fact that Sachiko had sincere feelings for Yumi when she asked Yumi to be her soeur the second time.

[Bracken33]

I think that Yumi is taken so well as a member of the Yamayurikai by the other students at Lillian is because she's an absolutely common person who has absolutley NO reason for being in the Yamayurikai.

Yumi was chosen by accident, but that does not mean she has not become a worthy member of the Yamayurikai.
I believe you are thinking to much about it.
In the end the Yamayurikai is just a student council, though the normal pupils think its something special (maybe even something like nobility).

Also you focus to much on Yumi.
Some other roses also became member of the Yamayurikai without special personal merits.
Think about the yellow roses. Eriko picked Rei because she is such an unusual girl and Eriko likes unusual things or people. Rei chose Yoshino because the are relatives.

Are Yoshino or Shimako really more royal or less common then Yumi? I don´t think so.
The only person that sticks out a bit in terms like commoner or noble imho is Sachiko.
She really has a different family background then the others and she also has a special noble behaviour.

She shouldn't be there. She doesn't fit there. She's just a commoner like the rest of the non-Yamayurikai girls at the school. Therefore she is one of them and they feel safe with their own.
I also agree that Yumi is a nice anchor chracter for all the others. She is a very friendly person who gets along with everyone, but not because she is a commoner but because she has a winning personality.
Yoshino for example is probably too effervescing and Shimako too introverted.

Whilst it might've been a pure coincidence that Yumi was asked the first time, I don't think that changes the fact that Sachiko had sincere feelings for Yumi when she asked Yumi to be her soeur the second time.
Yes.

[Sweets Yumi]

Well, for me I find all the Roses, minus Yumi's, personalities to be very striking in some manner. Yumi doesn't strike me at all. She just seems 'normal'.

And although I do agree that Sachiko did get used to Yumi being around eventually. I don't belive that if she had honestly looked for a souer to begin with, Yumi would ever have caught her eye.


Of course, if they had Roses at my school. I would hold them on a higher level, and would be how the other common girls were at Lillian, and keep off the grounds of the Rose mansion, for it being too special for me to be there.

And I could see myself actually speaking to Yumi over all the other girls, for she just seems like the resident goofball, she's someone on my level. Where the other girls aren't. And I would NEVER approach any of the other girls (and if they approached me, I think I'd faint away! :( ). Once again, that's why I think that Yumi is taken to so much by other girls at the school. :)

[Bracken33]

And I could see myself actually speaking to Yumi over all the other girls, for she just seems like the resident goofball, she's someone on my level. Where the other girls aren't. And I would NEVER approach any of the other girls (and if they approached me, I think I'd faint away! ). Once again, that's why I think that Yumi is taken to so much by other girls at the school.

You seem to have a different impression of the roses then me.
So you would really behave like one of the normal girls in the anime?
Their behavior appeared inadequate to me for a real life person.
Of course as anime characters they are a tool to show how special the Yumayurikai is, but it is imho not realistic.
The roses are not that awe inspiring. They are nice persons.

I think I would have no problems talking to Rei, Youko, Shimako or almost any other rose if they were real life persons.
Esspecially Rei is not very scary :).

[Shigan]

I have to agree, you don't get chosen to ANY student council by looking almighty and scary :D While a person like Sachiko may be difficult.

Lol, I'm having difficulties imagining Yumi as the worship-icon of any kind :D

[Sweets Yumi]

So you would really behave like one of the normal girls in the anime?


*sighs* Yes, I'm doomed to always idolize people, and never really feel I can compare to them in anyway...


One difference between me and Yumi, is that Yumi eventually felt she belonged with the Roses, where I would never feel I belonged. And also, if Sachiko (even though I don't really take to her) had offered me the rosary, I would have taken riight away! And possibly cried and jumped up and down for like an hour.


::imagines all the Roses being shocked and walking out of the room, while I'm still jumping! ::

I wouldn't have turned her down, I wouldn't take such a chance knowing she probably wouldn't ask again later..


I do consider myself a commoner or 'normal' girl, actually, I think I'm more in common with Kanako (from what I know) I can latch on to someone with such admiration that it's sad...or maybe scary. Glad I'm docile and not violent. ^__^

[kj1980]

*haha* Sorry to post again, but I thought I'd get a reply to what I wrote (maybe no one read it :( )

Do you guys think how I'm viewing Sachiko and the point of Yumi being a Rose is accurate?

Don't you guys think that Sachiko REALLY DID just pick Yumi for the simple reason of her just being THERE?

Any other views? :)


"Fate" is a dramatic way of introducing one character and another in Japanese literature - whether it is an actual novel, game, anime, or any other media genre.

Take, for example, a typical ren-ai simulation game where you accidentally bump into a girl at the side corner while running your way to school. Yes, it's a cliche.

However, such usage of "fate" is a great way to introduce two characters to put them [eventually] together.

What if situations such as "what if it was Tsutako-san that happened to be at the door as Sachiko fell down that instance" do cross people's mind. But then to Japanese, there is the notion of "there is no 'what ifs,' what happened is because it happened."

But of course, people will refuse to bound to be such notions of "Fate." You make your own goals for life. But then again, life is full of chances, luck, and decisions - all instances which can be put [if any] into the word "fate."

Conclusion: "Yumi was there at the right place at the right time," but that is how life is...besides, she is the main character in the series.

I have to agree, you don't get chosen to ANY student council by looking almighty and scary :D While a person like Sachiko may be difficult.

Lol, I'm having difficulties imagining Yumi as the worship-icon of any kind :D

As Yumi begins to bud as the Rosa Chinensis en bouton, you will notice Yumi starting to shine...becoming and "growing" each day and event as a blossomming Red Rose.

Yes it is hard to imagine right now, but I am looking foward to the "Rainy Blue" and "Parasol o Sashite" arc. I have my high hopes that the anime will be able to visually put through these parts as excellent as the novel. I can tell you, that visually putting together how Yumi begins to transform herself through this part will be very difficult, since the novel did an absolutely brilliant job of Yumi falling down the crevice to sprout back up brightly as a Phoenix.

[Sweets Yumi]

Ah! Cultural differences again. Maybe I am too harsh, well, yes, I will say that I am. I am slowing starting to understand things. And understand Sachiko too. I've been viewing her with an 'American' eye, and I see now that this isn't fair to her character. :(

Yay! Things are opening up for me!





Yes it is hard to imagine right now, but I am looking foward to the "Rainy Blue" and "Parasol o Sashite" arc. I have my high hopes that the anime will be able to visually put through these parts as excellent as the novel. I can tell you, that visually putting together how Yumi begins to transform herself through this part will be very difficult, since the novel did an absolutely brilliant job of Yumi falling down the crevice to sprout back up brightly as a Phoenix.


I can't wait!! Not so much for the temporary defeat, but her rising up and casting off her demons. (Not really sure how to explain, since I don't really know what will happen.)

Actually, call me crazy, but I've like to see this season end on her defeat, and the 3rd season start off with her gradual rise. I LOVE cliffhanger! And I'd especially love this one, since I know the outcome will be good. :)

[Shigan]

As Yumi begins to bud as the Rosa Chinensis en bouton, you will notice Yumi starting to shine...becoming and "growing" each day and event as a blossomming Red Rose.

Yes it is hard to imagine right now, but I am looking foward to the "Rainy Blue" and "Parasol o Sashite" arc. I have my high hopes that the anime will be able to visually put through these parts as excellent as the novel. I can tell you, that visually putting together how Yumi begins to transform herself through this part will be very difficult, since the novel did an absolutely brilliant job of Yumi falling down the crevice to sprout back up brightly as a Phoenix.

..............

*goes off to buy "Japanese for beginners"*

Shouldn't take to long before I will be able to read... right? I alredy know tons of kanji.... O_o;

If you put it like that, it makes me kinda anxious since five episodes sounds a little slim to do a 180 degrees flip like that one... *holds thumbs*

Another thing I had like to ask is how long are we along the novels right now? Will there be enough material for another season at all since books aren't written over one night?

[Bracken33]

*sighs* Yes, I'm doomed to always idolize people, and never really feel I can compare to them in anyway...
Now I understand you better.
You are still quite young. I am not sure, but perhaps this burden will automatically vanish when you grow older???

[onearmedscissor]

Another thing I had like to ask is how long are we along the novels right now? Will there be enough material for another season at all since books aren't written over one night?
i made a post about that here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=19202
most people think there's enough material now for at least one more season.

[lordwu]

Actually, call me crazy, but I've like to see this season end on her defeat, and the 3rd season start off with her gradual rise. I LOVE cliffhanger! And I'd especially love this one, since I know the outcome will be good. :)

No, you wouldn't want to have that cliffhanger, especially we don't know if there will be a 3rd season or not. :p

I don't want to say too much about Yumi's changes during the event. However, I'd like to say that the changes, while big, are quite subtle. It would be interesting to revisit this thread after the airing is completed for season 2.

[sparrow]

I think I would have no problems talking to Rei, Youko, Shimako or almost any other rose if they were real life persons.
Esspecially Rei is not very scary :).Rei ? when she and Sachiko went to meet a new student, I got the impression that they're the school's bully picking up on their underclassmen ^^;
she could be scary also, and that event at Yellow Rose Revolution, everyone think she's the most manly second year student.

maybe the less scary impression is because as the audience, we're like Yumi who hangs out at the mansion often :)

[Nequam]

maybe the less scary impression is because as the audience, we're like Yumi who hangs out at the mansion often :)

That's a good point, and I agree. We as viewers might not have any reservations about chatting with the Roses since we know they're quite amiable, but the rest of the students don't have the slightest clue as to what the Roses are like as people.

I think a good example of that would be the whole mix-up between Yoshino and Rei's personality profiles. I mean, we're not talking about a little misconception here -- they had absolutely no idea what the two were really like in terms of personality!

[Bracken33]

Rei ? when she and Sachiko went to meet a new student, I got the impression that they're the school's bully picking up on their underclassmen ^^;

Ok, everybody can have a bad day :D. So I take back my remark about Rei, she is normal and not "uber" friendly.

she could be scary also, and that event at Yellow Rose Revolution, everyone think she's the most manly second year student.

Are you saying that being manly is implying being scary?

maybe the less scary impression is because as the audience, we're like Yumi who hangs out at the mansion often

Yes, we know more about them then their normal classmates probably.
But I still think their classmates have no realistic reasons to be afraid of the Yumayurikai.
I have met much scarier persons when I went to scool, the roses are harmless. Probably by catholic girl scool standards they are scary :heh: ?

[sparrow]

no, they don't pick her as Mr. Lillian because her manliness is scary I guess. maybe a full stop is better than a comma in the sentence -_-

the fear for them even for non-classmate is like unrealistic already.
besides -maybe because of the story's point of view- it didn't seem like they talk that much with their classmates, if they're all serious during class and everyone seems to go to their club activity right after class (the scene when Tsutako asked Yumi to the mansion at episode 1).

[Kaoru Chujo]

I agree with Sweets Yumi that Yumi was chosen by accident, in the first instance. But I also agree with others who say that she was not chosen by accident when she finally accepted the rosary: Sachiko had realized what a special girl she was.

She is ordinary, yes, but she proved she had real pride by refusing such an honor, knowing it was not real. She is also special in being able to preserve her ordinariness when she reached a higher standing. And she is special in being able to bring life and naturalness to the Yamayurikai. She is a good person, and one who will grow through the years.

At first she didn't see herself as on the same level as the other members of the Yamayurikai, but she got used to being there. That happens.

[Alison]

In my personal opinion, Sachiko (at that time) didn't really bother herself with the task of having a petite soeur.

Yeah, Yumi just happens to be at the right place at the ... right time. Of course, dear Yumi grows on everyone. I suppose this is fate. *

yeah maybe she did not atually bother herself to find a petite seour but u still can't say dat it was fate.

in d novel

yumi asks sachiko if she occasionally fixed people's crooked ties. to which sachiko replied dat it was d exact opp. she had never really cared to do something like dat.

yumi ofcourse asked d reason. sachiko replied she must hav done it unconciously. she was in deep thought abt something and did not realise wat she was doing. this is d reason she couldn't remember a thing wen she saw d photograph.

let me better put in yumi's frnd tsuako's words,"Sachiko unconciously warmed upto u"

and u must have seen d look at sachiko's face wen she fell on yumi. notice it carefully. u shall notice it wasn't fate dat brougt them together. it was luv and attraction.

as for shimako. sachiko knew thr was little posibilty of yes as an answer so she was prepared 4 d outcum.