Suteki-Yume, Requesting Feedback

[holyangel]

Errr Hi ^_^

I am the founder of Suteki-Yume and some of you might already know us, but then again, you might have not heard of us yet. We were framed rather badly though... >_<

Anyway.. err.. we have always been giving our best for all of our projects and works and so, we could like to hear what you guys think about our Chrno Crusade, so we can work on our mistakes and do a even better job on the next ep and the next and the next ^_^

Please donate your words kindly ^_^

[microlith]

You weren't framed, you were called out for what you were. If you want suggestions, how about this: Stop being a bunch of idiots and quit distroing DVD rips.

Listed on your site:

Char's CounterAttack - Movie [DVD] (on DVD)
Spirited Away - Movie [DVD] (god how could you have missed THIS?)
Gundam 08th MS Team [DVD] (on DVD)
King of Bandit Jing [DVD] (licensed)
Gundam 0080 Ova [DVD] (on DVD)

ALL of the above is licensed and/or out.

I imagine all of these are likely available along side your release of Chrno Crusade.

http://www.suteki-yume.net/releases.html

Get a clue and come back later.

[Xiandu]

I personally don't have a grudge against you guys, but you may want to stay away from the forums of groups who don't distribute licensed anime. It will only cause the flaming posts like the ones before mine. Now whether or not you were framed, I cannot decide, but I do however know that you guys distribute illegal dvd rips. I use to go to your site too, but I decided to get the dvd's when they come out since I already own Char's Counter-attack, 08th MS Team, Gundam 0080 & 0083, Gundam OVA movies well not ova, and the AC Gundam Wing (all legit dvds). BTW may have goofed on the AC thing always get the timeline abv mixed up.

[Kenji Ikari]

Yeah, you may want to stop distroing American DVD rips, though I like how you subbed Hack//Sign 28 and Hack//Gift.

[DekaMaster]

Errr Hi ^_^

I am the founder of Suteki-Yume and some of you might already know us, but then again, you might have not heard of us yet. We were framed rather badly though... >_<

Anyway.. err.. we have always been giving our best for all of our projects and works and so, we could like to hear what you guys think about our Chrno Crusade, so we can work on our mistakes and do a even better job on the next ep and the next and the next ^_^

Please donate your words kindly ^_^


How were framed? I suggest you look up that word at www.dictionary.com

Not only were you releasing dvd rips as stated above but you are only subbing things for speed and to beat other groups.

[Enragin_Angel]

This is how Suteki-Yume was framed: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=1167

Unless they were framed for something somewhere else...

[Lucier]

Two thoughts...

1. Your name (Suteki Yume (meaning 'wonderful dream' or something like that for those who don't speak Japanese...))...
A nice departure from "_____-anime" and "Anime-_____" and "_______ fansubs" and such ^^;

2. It seems ppl don't like you distroing DVD rips alongside your fansubs....
While what you do is totally your choice, I reccomend either one or the other. If you wanna fansub, just stick to that, I think it'll gain more respect.

[[FeYed]]

u CC is mediocre! drop with the fansub plz .

[lighter junkie]

wow, the people have spoken against downloading licensed anime, but actually, I see nothing wrong with what suteki-yume is doing, basically, anime-suki is an American-oriented website, and once something's licensed in America, they take it down, but, i figured it's alright for a group to have licensed anime readily availble for download if their intention is for people in other countries [where the anime is not licensed] to be able to see the animation. if you're in a region where DVDs are availble, then don't download it.

i think the whole moral thing about licensed anime is more about self-restraint rather than quarantine groups which provided licensed anime. I mean suteki-yume's not the only group which did this, there are like more than a dozen groups listed on the anime-suki site that have done it.

anyhow, yeah, i was going to say suteki did a great job on hack//gift and ep 28. thanks!

[Zerox20]

Personally getting back to the topic, Me being from akraze I think that everybody did a pretty good job on CC I mean it is free =), Also your subbing of hack//gift Jerry Chu From Bandai #askjerry asked all groups to cease any hack sign did a public notice to all fansubbers. He did the same for GITs. I had to call bandai inc, Personally and talk with him because of Anime-kraze doing Dusk, Sign, and GITs. Out of respect for him, and his understanding of how hard fansubbers work (hes a very nice guy btw). He explained to me he was telling all fansub groups to cease their licensed work before legal department action was taken. So I suggest you do remove those links and cease any .Hack Series for your sake. Anime-kraze was going to do 28 also, but I recommend you look into this Bandai situation before persueing the .Hack. Keep in mind, I did think you did a nice job on 28, but it should not have been subbed. If you have any more questions you can always PM me and I will happily tell you what Bandai said.

[Enragin_Angel]

The NA R1 license isn't about the region...its about the translation. These American companies provide the "official" english translation...It's cool if you want to translate into another language...but because an English translation that is easily understood worldwide can be provided...there is no need to keep pirating stuff in English.

But hey...if you want to keep stepping on their toes and keep putting the fansubbing community at more risk then who am I to complain about something you do for free.............................

[holyangel]

Suteki-Yume has already long announced that it has stopped subbing licensed animes and have halt distro and all versions of the files. The release page still lists those releases though, because there were released, but the torrents and every other stuff were removed. The bots no longer serve those files either. So wassup with you people?

Suyu also don't use hacked distro, though I don't denied the fact that we research into this area as a interest, however it is in no way connected to our distro benefits.

And suyu don;t sub for speed and blah blah bullshit whatever u just insulted us. We don't cut into anime series halfway and steal the show either. We try to avoid projects which are being subbed by 2 or more groups currently, however we didn't expect 6 or 7 groups to do Chrno Crusade... this was not within our expectation. And since this is our first step in the reforming, we can't drop the project and it's a joint still.

Neither do we sub projects just because say we like the anime. Like say, hey let's sub Maburaho, it's a awesome anime, we will get popular as long as we do faster then the other group. Bullshit!!! We were planning to work on maburaho before it was even airred, but research shows S-C was doing it, so we dropped the project because we know we won't be a better job then S-C.

We sub for quality, to bring the best to anime fans, not for fame and money!! We are a non-profit, anti-hacker group!! And this is what we are!! Not some shit u just referred us as!

Subs were edited and checked over and over again to ensure that the meaning is perfect and not lost even after editing. Encodes were done again and again, to the best perfection we can get. We are a new fansub group and we are small, that I know, but we do the best we can to bring the best possible quality to the fans. We didn't spent our time sleeping or playing games when we have no projects, we spent time researching into codecs and see how much more we can improve and we ensure that the codec can be decoded correctly even without directshow filther installed or another external software other then the normal xvid codec.

We work to the best we can and we don't ask that you know us or what, but we ask that u respect us in what we do and not insult it just because you feel like it!!

[DekaMaster]

Suteki-Yume has already long announced that it has stopped subbing licensed animes and have halt distro and all versions of the files. The release page still lists those releases though, because there were released, but the torrents and every other stuff were removed. The bots no longer serve those files either. So wassup with you people?

Suyu also don't use hacked distro, though I don't denied the fact that we research into this area as a interest, however it is in no way connected to our distro benefits.

And suyu don;t sub for speed and blah blah bullshit whatever u just insulted us. We don't cut into anime series halfway and steal the show either. We try to avoid projects which are being subbed by 2 or more groups currently, however we didn't expect 6 or 7 groups to do Chrno Crusade... this was not within our expectation. And since this is our first step in the reforming, we can't drop the project and it's a joint still.

Neither do we sub projects just because say we like the anime. Like say, hey let's sub Maburaho, it's a awesome anime, we will get popular as long as we do faster then the other group. Bullshit!!! We were planning to work on maburaho before it was even airred, but research shows S-C was doing it, so we dropped the project because we know we won't be a better job then S-C.

We sub for quality, to bring the best to anime fans, not for fame and money!! We are a non-profit, anti-hacker group!! And this is what we are!! Not some shit u just referred us as!

Subs were edited and checked over and over again to ensure that the meaning is perfect and not lost even after editing. Encodes were done again and again, to the best perfection we can get. We are a new fansub group and we are small, that I know, but we do the best we can to bring the best possible quality to the fans. We didn't spent our time sleeping or playing games when we have no projects, we spent time researching into codecs and see how much more we can improve and we ensure that the codec can be decoded correctly even without directshow filther installed or another external software other then the normal xvid codec.

We work to the best we can and we don't ask that you know us or what, but we ask that u respect us in what we do and not insult it just because you feel like it!!

I'm sorry but this would mean alot more if your releases page didn't contain all those DVD rips

[holyangel]

We don't sub dvd anymore... Though we sub those DVD by request in the past. And btw! Getting a DVD Raw and Getting a DVD Rip is 2 different thing and what we use are dvd raws, so don't put us together with dvd rippers.

AND FOR GOD SAKE!!! WE HAVE ALREADY STOPPED DISTRO AND ALL VERSIONS OF THOSE RELEASES!! SO WHY CAN"T U FUCKING PEOPLE WAKE UP AND ABSORB THIS IN!!! WE DON"T SUB LICENSED PROJECTS ANYMORE!!! IT"S ALREADY OFFICALLY ANNOUNCED!!

[holyangel]

hmm maybe the site was abit confusing... ^^!! I visited my own site and I think I figured out what u people mean. You don't download torrents or stuff off our releases page, that page has no hyperlinks, it's just a page showing our history of fansubbing projects. It's meant for crc checking and blah blah stuff, not for downloading purposes.

The only download area in our site is the bittorrent page and no more...

http://www.suteki-yume.net/bittorrent.html

This page then has hyperlinks. As you can see, there is only unlicensed stuff there.

Hopefully, we can solve this confusion better when our v2 site is done.

[chibikit]

Slightly off-topic:

Posted by Enragin_Angel - Yesterday at 06:48
The NA R1 license isn't about the region...its about the translation. These American companies provide the "official" english translation...It's cool if you want to translate into another language...but because an English translation that is easily understood worldwide can be provided...there is no need to keep pirating stuff in English.


If the North American R1 license isn't about region but official English translations, then why is it that the companies involved only release on R1 (R2 and Australian releases are brokered by other companies usually, as far as I can see)? Why do they not make DVDs of other regions available as well? After all, English is the lingua franca of the world right now, so if it's really about an official and understandable English translation, why is the license only done for R1?

Cost? Perhaps: it could be argued that making and keeping stocks of non-R1 DVDs is not cost-effective for a NA company. However, there are ways around this - slightly higher prices for other regions, and on-demand production to get around stocking costs, for example. So that's not an airtight reason for the R1-only production of an English translation.

Note to mods: if this is too far off-topic, please inform me by PM and allow me to transfer it to a separate thread before deleting the post, as this is a question I really would like to see answered.

[LongLiveTA]

You weren't framed, you were called out for what you were. If you want suggestions, how about this: Stop being a bunch of idiots and quit distroing DVD rips.

Listed on your site:

Char's CounterAttack - Movie [DVD] (on DVD)
Spirited Away - Movie [DVD] (god how could you have missed THIS?)
Gundam 08th MS Team [DVD] (on DVD)
King of Bandit Jing [DVD] (licensed)
Gundam 0080 Ova [DVD] (on DVD)

ALL of the above is licensed and/or out.

I imagine all of these are likely available along side your release of Chrno Crusade.

http://www.suteki-yume.net/releases.html

Get a clue and come back later.


YOU FORGOT GX and HACK SIGN TOO! But no matter, they're dead now anyway.

[Enragin_Angel]

chibikit: I'm referring to fansubs. These companies who make different region DVDs paid for their license, but piraters do not. Because NA companies usually get the license first (but not always) and provide English translations and make enough copies for anyone who wants it...there is no need for other countries to keep pirating the material for their country/region in english.

If you wanna keep pirating...then go ahead...it'll just make the fansubbing community more visible... if you get me.

[NenMaster]

how come this group is getting all teh slack for subbing a licsenced series, they may of did dvd rips in the PAST but not nemore, as he says they are REFORMED.

meh, why dont u complain to other groups about doing licsenced series?

[JAppi]

I don't think anyone will really notice you if you do shows that everyone else is doing. I would suggest you go into the "Top 10 shows to be subbed" thread and pick one og those shows

[stsaturn]

Well uh I think you guys are cool. I think its great you have cleaned up your act and all but I really wish you would keep putting out the Gundam X episodes. I allready have all the Gundam X episodes and was hoping I could delete the low quality ones and replace them with your subs. I mean lets face it Gundam Seed will be released before Gundam X in the US. Thanks for the first 17 anyway. :cool:

[PocariSweat]

The NA R1 license isn't about the region...its about the translation. These American companies provide the "official" english translation...It's cool if you want to translate into another language...but because an English translation that is easily understood worldwide can be provided...there is no need to keep pirating stuff in English.

But hey...if you want to keep stepping on their toes and keep putting the fansubbing community at more risk then who am I to complain about something you do for free.............................

I hate to jump into this mess but this argument is false! If that was the case then why do DVDs have regions to begin with? It's because a company licensed to do an R1 release has NO RIGHTS to sell it in other regions unless they BUY those rights! License agreements are bound by region - a company selling a R1 licensed DVD to an R2 region is selling an *unlicensed* copy - from a legal standpoint not all that different from a HK DVD.

Granted you don't see to much legal fuss over this in the Anime world - though sometime it comes up with movies that are released sooner or cheaper in some other region. Also from a moral perspective, at least the original creators have made some money from the deal (though I'm not sure if they get a percentage of a sub-licensor's profit or just license it for a fixed amount).

It may sound obvious but, An American distributor has no right to dictate distribution outside their own region - only the original studio or the local licensor can do that. This is really a problem with digisubs on the Internet - there's no easy way for say a European group to ensure their stuff can't be downloaded outside of Europe.

[chibikit]

I hate to jump into this mess but this argument is false! If that was the case then why do DVDs have regions to begin with? It's because a company licensed to do an R1 release has NO RIGHTS to sell it in other regions unless they BUY those rights! License agreements are bound by region - a company selling a R1 licensed DVD to an R2 region is selling an *unlicensed* copy - from a legal standpoint not all that different from a HK DVD.


Actually, I believe it's legal to sell DVDs outside of their specified region. What's illegal is the selling of DVD players outside their regions and making DVD players that don't have region-protection in the first place. PocariSweat is, I believe, nevertheless correct in saying that an R1 license doesn't equate to a right to exclusively sell the licensed title in other regions.


It may sound obvious but, An American distributor has no right to dictate distribution outside their own region - only the original studio or the local licensor can do that.

The essence of my original argument, precisely. Somehow it seems wrong that a company that caters to a specific DVD Region should dictate terms for the whole world. Allowing a copyright monopoly by an entity that does not intend to allow that copyright to be made available all over the world - the whole purpose of DVD Regions, in fact - is not in the spirit of the Berne Convention, in my opinion.


This is really a problem with digisubs on the Internet - there's no easy way for say a European group to ensure their stuff can't be downloaded outside of Europe.


Theoretically, simple code could be written for fserves to ignore specific regions via IP addresses. The same thing can be done for BT files, I believe. Maybe having such code can be made part of the 'Fansub ethical code' that ex-video fansubbers (who are often bitter and scathing in their remarks about digisubbers but never give any concrete solution apart from complete and total annihilation of digisubbing) are always talking about. The question is how many servers and sharers would be willing to do this? Regardless of the answer, there will always be people who won't adhere to any code, but that doesn't mean that the whole hobby should be ground to a halt all over the world just because a few people in one country say so. Whatever happened to freedom of information?


chibikit: I'm referring to fansubs. These companies who make different region DVDs paid for their license, but piraters do not.

So you equate fansubbing to piracy? Unsuitable comparison: pirates profits financially from what they do; fansubbers (including DVD ripper-subbers) do not.

While it is arguable that a fansub of a licensed copy might cause someone to not buy the DVD, in all likelihood, this person wouldn't have bought the DVD even if there wasn't a fansub, possibly for financial reasons ("DVDs are too expensive") or doubt ("I don't want to bust my cash on something that I might not like."). For people who stay outside R1, there's also the issue of Customs and Censors, who sometimes tend to look askance at imported videos (especially in Asian countries).


Because NA companies usually get the license first (but not always) and provide English translations and make enough copies for anyone who wants it...there is no need for other countries to keep pirating the material for their country/region in english.


Questionable. The issue in this case is that the NA companies get a license for Region 1 only, which means that it is not provided to other regions by default by them. Yes, they provide an English translation that's understandable to most of the world, but is it available in another region the way a DVD for that specific region is? No. Can I feasibly import it into my region? Usually no. So the way I see it, until a title is licensed and hence made accessible for a region, there still remains a need for a more available English translation for that region. If fansubs or DVD subs are the only ones available, then so be it; I know I'm one of those people who buy the DVDs when they become available regardless, so it's not really a guilty point for me.


But hey...if you want to keep stepping on their toes and keep putting the fansubbing community at more risk then who am I to complain about something you do for free.............................


It's no issue for me. I'm part of a fansub group (who by the way only do non-R1-licensed stuff) and I'm not ashamed of what I do. I think the ones who should be ashamed are those who leech with no intention of buying the DVDs if they become available; R1 licensed digisubs are intended for people who can't get them any other way.

Getting back on topic:
Good on Su-Yu to go into actual subbing instead of straightforward ripping. Thanks for making stuff available to people who, in normal circumstances, cannot get it.

[Enragin_Angel]

Yes, you are right Pocari, but I am saying that if you keep fansubbing in British English or Standard English etc...there would be no point...since the American one is available(and can still be understood). What you're trying to say is it would be better to just keep pirating material, which is illegal, than to export the licensed dvd? They're both illegal I suppose...but at least doing the latter helps the original creator. Its funny how people keep finding reasons not to help the anime industry...the same industry that they so love and watch.

HK dvds are a lil different because they don't give back to the creator at all. Although it is legal to make those dvds only within Hong Kong because they don't abide by the international law, it isn't legal anywhere else except Hong Kong...just like R1's aren't legal in any other region. At least the American distributors give back to the creators by paying for a license tho.

I know you're probably gonna argue that fansubbers are "helping" the industry by giving anime more exposure to the world...but I doubt that's the case anymore due to anime's increasing popularity. Pat yourself on the back...a job well done...now let these dvd companies do theirs.

Edit: since chibikit got his post in first...i'll start editing here... I've come to believe piracy is the illegal copying, distribution and/or use of software...or in this case...anime. You don't necessarily have to profit from it. What matters is that the person you are pirating isn't making x amount of profit because of you.

[chibikit]

I know you're probably gonna argue that fansubbers are "helping" the industry by giving anime more exposure to the world...

Edit: since chibikit got his post in first...i'll start editing here... I've come to believe piracy is the illegal copying, distribution and/or use of software...or in this case...anime. You don't necessarily have to profit from it. What matters is that the person you are pirating isn't making x amount of profit because of you.

My line of argument should be pretty obvious here. ^_~ (Yes fansubbers do help by giving exposure etc etc, you know the drill).

Other ways that fansubbing helps distro companies follow:

It is a widely known fact that distro companies often use the popularity of fansubs of series to decide which should be licensed. One company once admitted to this (I believe it was ADV) and there is no reason to suggest that others don't do the same. Bandai's licensing of Wolf's Rain, which had a very small following in Japan but large online popularity, and Urban Vision's hand in producing of Ninja Scroll TV (the original OVA bombed in Japan but was popular in American sales AND online) are other clues to the importance of fansubbing in assisting distro companies' licensing decisions.

Despite the fact that the majority of fansubs nowadays sub popular series for the most part (sometimes with more than 4 groups to a series), fansubs still do dig up little unknown gems that would never see the light of day in the US owing to financial risk. I fail to remember an example off-hand, but one still-unlicensed (but rumoured to be soon) series is Jungle wa Itsumo Hale Nochi Guu, something so quirky and unknown that no sane company would risk licensing it if they didn't know there was a market for it.


While it is arguable that a fansub of a licensed copy might cause someone to not buy the DVD, in all likelihood, this person wouldn't have bought the DVD even if there wasn't a fansub, possibly for financial reasons ... or doubt...

To clarify, in my opinion there are 3 types of people in the anime downloading world:
1) The people who want to get an 'advanced preview' of their favourite show before it's released.
2) The people who may or may not buy a DVD and are using the fansub as a means of deciding if it's worth it.
3) The people who wouldn't buy DVDs regardless because they can get something that's free or cheap.

Type 2 people are the ones that fansubs can transform into customers for distro companies. This is another (often overlooked) way that fansubbers help, apart from giving exposure to anime in general. Type 1 people aren't swayed by fansubs, nor are type 3s; the former are going to buy the DVDs anyway, while the latter just plain don't care either way and is in it for the free stuff. Not a very strong argument, but this may actually play a larger role in promoting DVD sales than anti-fansubbers would have you believe.


I know you're probably gonna argue that fansubbers are "helping" the industry by giving anime more exposure to the world...but I doubt that's the case anymore due to anime's increasing popularity. Pat yourself on the back...a job well done...now let these dvd companies do theirs.


Anime is increasing in popularity, yes, but I don't believe it's as big an increase as the distro companies say. I have no sales figures or anything to back me up on numbers (which could make this opinion fact), so I'm basing this on psychology: to the average person, any form of animation (anime, 3D, Disney, anything) is the specific purvue of children regardless of its actual content - anyone who's been accused of being childish for watching Cowboy Bebop or Eva knows this. People are expected to grow out of watching animation, and in adulthood watching animation is only acceptable if you're accompanying children; even then, you're not expected to enjoy it.

This whole "animation is for children" thing is a major stumbling block in the promotion of anime as something acceptably to mainstream, and I daresay the majority of people who watch anime on the networks are children. This is a potential market for distro companies, yes, but when they grow up the vast majority of them will succumb to the societal pressure of the "animation is for children" maxim.

Even more powerful is the fact that some anime are very explicit in sexual content, especially hentai. In combination with the previous maxim, this only feeds the anti-anime idea that anime is can only be childish or perverse - another stumbling block.

So, by psychology, the popularity of anime may be increasing, but it's only increasing at a very slow rate against the pressure of societal conformity. That in itself is, to me, a clue that the popularity level is not so large as to allow the consideration of elimination of fansubbing as a means of promoting anime.

Additionally, the 'popularity level' that Enragin_Angel refers to applies in R1 only. I live in Malaysia (R3) and while anime enjoys quite a bit of popularity here, I never see a working adult browsing the myriad (Taiwanese) DVD stores or manga shops - testament to the "animation is for children" maxim prevalent in most cultures. I've been in the UK (R2) and anime is nowhere near as popular as it is said to be in R1 - the DVD selection is minimal and the manga can only be found in small amounts unless you go to specialist stores. If fansubbing as a means of promoting anime is no longer relevant and subsequently abolished because of the level of anime popularity in one Region alone, then this is decidedly unfair to the rest of the world, who deserve as much as the R1 nations to enjoy this wonderful artform.

To conclude, fansubbing is still very much relevant as a promotional tool for both NA commercial interests and anime-dom as a whole. It is true that the HK (actually Taiwanese) DVDs are only legal in Taiwan (which isn't part of the Berne Convention on copyrights) and that HK pirate DVDs don't give a single cent back to the original creators, but to compare these infinitely more injurious acts to something as relatively mundane and far more useful to anime-dom as fansubbing is an injustice to all involved.

PS: Forgot to mention that Enragin_Angel's opinions regarding the definition of piracy and my own are fundamentally different. That's not to say one or the other is wrong, though; it's up to you to decide which to subscribe to.

[Enragin_Angel]

chibikit: You are a stupi...just kidding. I know some overcrazed fan is gonna come later and start a flame war to get this thread closed but I think we've been fairly civil so far don't you think? Well...I think so at least. You present very good points and I still think it is good to keep fansubbing unlicensed titles or fansubbing into a language that has yet to be translated in order to increase the recognition of anime throughout the world.

Without restating what i've said before I don't really have anything more to say about this particular subject. But for selfish reasons, I would still like to preview animes like you said and sort of get a sneak peek at titles that won't make it over for months to maybe even years. But if we continue to make pirated anime readily available even when it is licensed, it is more likely that a company will file lawsuits and shut down our operation so we'd all be screwed. I suppose its sort of an elitist selfish reason, but that's the way I see it.

[PocariSweat]

Actually, I believe it's legal to sell DVDs outside of their specified region. What's illegal is the selling of DVD players outside their regions and making DVD players that don't have region-protection in the first place.


Actually the exact opposite is true most places. Many countries have specifically allowed region free DVD players. Some have even gone as far as to say region control isn't permitted. However distribution is a civil matter - what and where a company is allowed to distribute is decided by the contract they sign. If that contract doesn't give them permission to sell outside their region, then they have no rights to do so. You see, if they could sell anywhere, the original studio couldn't make money from other licensing deals - this is why regions exist.

Oddly it's often legal for people to buy such DVD's even if it's not for the distributor to sell them, but this may depend on your local laws.

Yes, you are right Pocari, but I am saying that if you keep fansubbing in British English or Standard English etc...there would be no point...since the American one is available(and can still be understood).

I know you're probably gonna argue that fansubbers are "helping" the industry by giving anime more exposure to the world...but I doubt that's the case anymore due to anime's increasing popularity.

Ah, a perfect example of an false argument. No I didn't say any such thing, but fansubs don't suddenly become *more* illegal just because someone has licensed them. Telling someone in R2 that they must stop because it's been licensed in your country is just arrogance. Until they can legitimately go down to the shop and buy a series for themselves, they have as much (or as little) right to fansubs as anyone ever does.

The question then becomes why allow fansubs at all? Well, Anime isn't all that popular worldwide yet, and the truth is even in the USA what sells the best? It's stuff people can see on TV for free like Tenchi-Muyo, DBZ and Sailor Moon. Most people won't know their Azumanga from their Haibane! :) A large chunk of all R1 licensed anime still only appeals to a relatively small group, and that won't change until anime is as visible on US television as it is in Japan.

The popularity of digisubs are increasing this demographic however, and most of the people here rely on them to know what to buy. Anime is too varied, and most shows run only a season - there's often no way to know if you'll like a series *except* by watching several shows. In fact, if I were in the studio's shoes I might put the first three episodes of each series up on my website - just enough to get people hooked. :)

[chibikit]

Enragin_Angel, you light-blinded blind fo... similarly kidding. ^_~ Indeed, you also have been very civil in your discourse and succint in points, preferring directness to verbosity - unlike myself. It's been a veritable pleasure discussing this with you.

True enough the R1 companies would crack down on any US based groups eventually in that case; that's what the DMCA is there for. Under the DMCA anyone who circumvents an adequately functioning encryption method (read DVD rippers) can be charged, as well as anyone who makes available any form of copyright (read any fansubber who shares his translated video files, regardless of fair use rights in translation etc.). The RIAA has used it, the MPAA is said to be contemplating it, and thus it's only a matter of time before distro companies decide that it could work for them too. However, as I have oft said before, why should a small group of people catering to only specific nations using technology that makes it very hard, if not impossible, to legally allow other parts of the world to enjoy a copyrighted material? Back in the days of video and VCDs, it was much easier to view imports regardless of where you were; not so in the age of the region-specific DVD. That's unfair selectiveness if I ever saw it.


Actually the exact opposite is true most places. Many countries have specifically allowed region free DVD players.


Really? I've always understood it to be the other way 'round. I guess I should recheck this fact.

Edit: Oh, wait... I just remembered that it's illegal in the UK for a company to import DVDs from R1... at least that's what my old comics shop there used to say. I guess there is truth in PocariSweat's correction. I'm pretty sur that the DVD Consortium (which includes Sony among its members) lobbied for DVD players and DVD-ROM drives to have mandatory Region support, which is why you can't find a regionless DVD drive nowadays.

Enough hijacking of this topic. Let Su-Yu and it's proponents and detractors have their say unfettered.

[holyangel]

^^!! Oh well here we goes then... Gundam X has been confirmed Unlicensed hmmm.. and so we will be resuming the project once we stable down with the new raw provider. Btw, the raw this time is alot better then the raw we get to work with in the past.

[NenMaster]

i hate it when people post mass off topic stuff, cant u just make a enw thread and point people to it?

[Soulfang]

^^!! Oh well here we goes then... Gundam X has been confirmed Unlicensed hmmm.. and so we will be resuming the project once we stable down with the new raw provider. Btw, the raw this time is alot better then the raw we get to work with in the past.

I'm almost positive Bandai licensed Gundam X but hasn't released it yet. I remember reading somewhere that Zeta and X were being released soon...

[Forse]

Hmm...I see nothing wrong with downloading DVD-Rips (yes KILL ME!). In our group we will not do licensed anime EVER (and we never did), but personal matter is different thing. I live in finland where the probably only Anime DVD I can get is GiTs. Yes I know "order it online", but I don't have credit card and why would I want to buy R1 DVD if it doesn't work on my DVD player? None of you can say that you have NEVER downloaded licensed anime, or can you? I have and still will download DVD-rips (if only they were easier to find).

If Anime DVD would reach finland...I would gladly go to pay the price and enjoy the high quality of DVD until then...

[holyangel]

I remember bandai saying that they have no plans for Gundam X till 2010, and Zeta was already licensed and announced long ago.

And y? What happen to the Chrno Crusade Feedback? 2 page already and still none lolz...

[Forse]

When ep3 comes out, I'll get it from you so maybe I could give some feedback ;)

[zalas]

I remember bandai saying that they have no plans for Gundam X till 2010, and Zeta was already licensed and announced long ago.

And y? What happen to the Chrno Crusade Feedback? 2 page already and still none lolz...
Um... the general consensus is that Bandai has the rights to ALL OF GUNDAM, NO IF, ANDS OR BUTS. Just because they have no plans about it doesn't mean they don't have it.

[holyangel]

Let me rephase 1 more time then, it's not offically announced yet. And anything that's not offically announced yet is still considered unlicensed right? The same apply for Gundam ZZ right?

[zalas]

Let me rephase 1 more time then, it's not offically announced yet. And anything that's not offically announced yet is still considered unlicensed right? The same apply for Gundam ZZ right?
I guess so, if you want to use a technicality. However, I believe the original reason for the "unlicensed" idea was that they were being subbed because they weren't getting brought over.

[JAppi]

Why don't you sub something other then a gundam show? There are plenty of excellent shows in the Top 10 shows to be subtitled. I think that thread should be stickied. Subbing a Gundam show will make you look like a "Me too" gundam subber. Try making a new orignal name for yourself. Sub a less popular show. It will be more rewarding in the end.

[holyangel]

We already did the show halfway already... might as well finish the whole show...

[CompShrink]

Ok, Gundam X is already subbed all the way through by others, I have all of it on CD.

Regardless of the licenced/unlicenced "We already did the show halfway already... might as well finish the whole show... " is not a good reason to fansub something. If you have a better reason, I would like to hear it. If you don't I'd like to see you do something more worthwhile...

[microlith]

The only reason they said they weren't licensed is cause a fair number of whiners and assholes were spewing shit at Jerry and Bandai. I have an odd feeling those spewing the most crap were those least likely to pay for it.

Suffice it to say all of Gundam is licensed but to shut the whiny fuckers up they're turning a blind eye to it.

[Panon]

We already did the show halfway already... might as well finish the whole show...

Bandai have said for Gundam, as long as it's not announced for a US release they don't care - so Gundam X is still completely fair game for you guys to release.

[JAppi]

Why are you getting yourself into these arguments. If you continue to be a pathetic me too subber I see absolutly no reason to download any of your subs ever! This thread is a waste of time too. Currently the only people who care about you are the stupid leechers who wanna get Gundam before it's licensed. Sub a real show! Stop subbing crap just to appeal to the masses! 12 groups are doing CC, unless you're a really fast or really good group you're going to be totally and utterly ignored. The people who madly leech everything as soon as it comes out won't care about you because you're not fast. Mad crazy stupid leechers don't care about quality they want their anime now. The people who want a good sub won't care about you either. They want to get subs from the already established good groups. They don't give a rat's ass about the groups who they don't know, Especially when it's for a show with 12 subbers. LITERALLY! 12 FUCKING GROUPS! If you drop the fucking project no one will complain. Are you subbing to be cool or to actually do a good job? You won't be cool unless you do a good job and let the fans appreciate you. It would be better for you to pick one of the shows from the "Top Ten Shows to see Subbed" thread and SUB them. Hell I even compiled a list from the thread. Not noticing that thread is in-excusable. Bandai WILL license every Gundam. Subbing anime is not to make you cool. You sub animes to please the fans with interesting shows.

No one cares about your god damn group. Sub something we will care about.

[diabolistic]

Subbing ... is not to make you cool.

At this point, diabolistic stops subbing Power Puff Girls into 12 year old AOL user.

[chibikit]

Why are you getting yourself into these arguments. If you continue to be a pathetic me too subber I see absolutly no reason to download any of your subs ever! This thread is a waste of time too. Currently the only people who care about you are the stupid leechers who wanna get Gundam before it's licensed. Sub a real show! Stop subbing crap just to appeal to the masses! 12 groups are doing CC, unless you're a really fast or really good group you're going to be totally and utterly ignored. The people who madly leech everything as soon as it comes out won't care about you because you're not fast. Mad crazy stupid leechers don't care about quality they want their anime now. The people who want a good sub won't care about you either. They want to get subs from the already established good groups. They don't give a rat's ass about the groups who they don't know, Especially when it's for a show with 12 subbers. LITERALLY! 12 FUCKING GROUPS! If you drop the fucking project no one will complain. Are you subbing to be cool or to actually do a good job? You won't be cool unless you do a good job and let the fans appreciate you. It would be better for you to pick one of the shows from the "Top Ten Shows to see Subbed" thread and SUB them. Hell I even compiled a list from the thread. Not noticing that thread is in-excusable. Bandai WILL license every Gundam. Subbing anime is not to make you cool. You sub animes to please the fans with interesting shows.

No one cares about your god damn group. Sub something we will care about.
I see.

If a fansub group decides to sub something that they care about and they think they can do better than the rest of the bandwagon jumpers out there, they're somehow irrelevant and should be pilloried for giving the impression that they're of the "Oh, I wanna ride the popular series wave too!" type of subbers. It doesn't matter if they can or if they do perform a better job than the first 2 or 3 groups that compete for it, even if those first 2 or 3 are pathetic? I'm not pointing any fingers here or accusing anyone of half-arsed work, but damn people, it doesn't matter if you can come up with phrasing that fits the characters perfectly or can find a raw that doesn't have horrible artifacts in the encoding. Go find something else to make perfect.

And it's perfectly alright for a group to drop a series halfway just because someone else is already way ahead, or even completed, subbing it. Whoever came up with the Malay adage "Kalau menyeluk perkasam, biar sampai ke pangkal lengan" (literally, 'if you are reaching for pickles in a jar, reach all the way to the bottom', meaning do your best all the way to the end) and similar phrases in other languages was a complete idiot. Someone already beat you, so give up; you're not going to be able to better him ever.

Plus to get any amount of decent respect a fansub group MUST do an obscure show, even if it's one that they don't care much about. Never mind that raws may be impossible to find, or perhaps even non-existent.

And fansubbing is totally about pandering to what some leecher wants, rather than enjoying the work as you go along. Fansubbers must always cater to the whims of the True Anime Fan but not to the Mindless F'-ing Leecher, and God forbid that they cater to their own whims and fancies when it comes to anime. The fansubber is the slave of our desires - we being the only True Anime Fans in existence, of course.

Plus with all those anime licensing groups in R1, every single anime show is going to end up licensed and announced sooner or later anyway. Let all the so-called anime fans in other Regions rot; all fansubbers must stop and retire. Fansubbers are completely irrelevant in this day and age.

I completely understand. :P

*readies fire extinguisher against any potential flames*

[Shii]

:rolleyes:

[holyangel]

Relax Relax... There's a ton of project coming up soon after our 3 weeks vacation... We have also picked 3 tittles after viewing some threads here and the amount of request. However there's a shortage of staff at the moment... and our Distro issues still prevent us from making too much decisions.

And btw, we don't sub GX just to be cool or something... It was requested ^_^. The request was simply too big for us to ignore, it's not like we wanna put on a big show and heck care them, and they keep begging us to sub it... That's more lame...

We have the same policy as we once did. Request the anime tittle to us ^_^ and we'll look into it ^^. We fansub for the anime fans ^_^ provided that it's within our powers.

[JAppi]

If a fansub group decides to sub something that they care about and they think they can do better than the rest of the bandwagon jumpers out there, they're somehow irrelevant and should be pilloried for giving the impression that they're of the "Oh, I wanna ride the popular series wave too!" type of subbers.

Exactly, why are they subbing in the first place if it's to feel better about themselves?

It doesn't matter if they can or if they do perform a better job than the first 2 or 3 groups that compete for it, even if those first 2 or 3 are pathetic?

They're not doing a better job. They're just a stupid group who likes to sub licensed anime so people can steal it off the internet. How could you expect them to do anything resembling decent.

I'm not pointing any fingers here or accusing anyone of half-arsed work, but damn people, it doesn't matter if you can come up with phrasing that fits the characters perfectly or can find a raw that doesn't have horrible artifacts in the encoding. Go find something else to make perfect.

Why should anyone release half-assed work when they're capable of doing better?

And it's perfectly alright for a group to drop a series halfway just because someone else is already way ahead, or even completed, subbing it.

The group isn't doing a better job then anyone else. They will drop it half way though, I can guarantee that. Most groups made up of leeching fucks who like to steal anime usually do that.


Plus to get any amount of decent respect a fansub group MUST do an obscure show.

Correct, look at all the highly respected groups (Triad, LE, Infusion) They've all done obscure shows that no one else would sub.


Never mind that raws may be impossible to find, or perhaps even non-existent.

Is it so hard to buy the show's dvds? What ever happened to back in the day when the people who did Sub-tapes had to actually buy the laser disc if they wanted to sub it?

Fansubbers must always cater to the whims of the True Anime Fan but not to the Mindless F'-ing Leecher

Correct, the mindless fucking leechers are the ones who don't buy dvds and steal all their anime off the internet. Why should we support them if they don't support the anime industry?

and God forbid that they cater to their own whims and fancies when it comes to anime.

Well if they aren't leeching fucks they should enjoy these shows.


The fansubber is the slave of our desires

Not exactly, they are fans too so they should atleast like the decent anime.


Plus with all those anime licensing groups in R1, every single anime show is going to end up licensed and announced sooner or later anyway.

Well, I'm fairly sure only the marketable shows will be licensed. Some shows aren't very marketable. Especially the obscure shows. If the fansubs can make these obscure shows less obscure then they will be more likely to be licensed. Gundam X is guaranteed to be licensed.



Let all the so-called anime fans in other Regions rot

It's not that expensive to import dvds from the states. I'm perfectly willing to pay the high prices.

all fansubbers must stop and retire.

Only the crappy pirate leecher faggot fuck ones.

I completely understand.

Yes you do, now worship my sexiness.

[holyangel]

>_< Don't insult us till so bad... we did a beautiful 140mb encode back there for Chrno Crusade - 01.

And i already explained on the first page that we don't sub for overself >_<

We currently don't have a decent distro server to drop and distro our raws and to even release encodes. Till we solve this problem, it's impossible for us to take on new projects.

We are already half dead paying for our bots and server and you expect us to buy DVD still... aren't that abit too much?

I understand that you wish us to sub some animes you want.. and I already suggested above... request them to us and we will look into it, and as per your request to look into the top 10 anime wishlist, we already picked 3 tittles from there after judging the amount of request. However... it's not really that easy as it seems in fansubbing to just find raws and translate, and until we solve our current problems.. it's impossible to take on new projects.

And 1 last thing.. don't make decision for us on which anime we would be dropping.
And what makes you " True Anime Fans " so special from the " Leechers " you claim to be so damn different from? When after all, you all download the same stuff, watch the same stuff , request the same stuff and is classify as human?

Ahh... almost forgot about it... STOP CLAIMING WE STILL SUB LICENSED ANIMES OR I'LL RAMPAGE YOUR HOUSE AND STILL ALL YOUR COLOURFUL RED UNDERWEAR!!!!

[JAppi]

Don't take it personally, I didn't see your post until after I posted. I'm sorry if I offended you. If you say you've decided to do 3 titles from that list then I take everything I said back. Thank you for listening to me. I greatly appreciate it. Not only did you pick one of the titles but you picked 3!!! Thank you very much.

[complich8]

Off Topic Warning!!!

The fansubber is the slave of our desires

no.

The fansubber is the slave of their own desires. The non-fansubber is one of the benefactors, but the fans in "fansubber" are the fans who are subbing, not the fans who are following them.

Thus, any group that does a series purely because they love it is "successful" whether people like their work or not, whether people watch their stuff or not. Success is an internal thing. Fame is an external thing.

The fansubber is only the slave to your desires if they enslave themselves to them by pursuing that elusive and transient fame, of if the fansubber is you (since we are alll somewhat slaves to our own desires -- though that's pretty debatable too).

Granted, all of this is my own personal philosophical babble, and completely irrelevant to anyone else's life. But I'll tell ya this much: I have never seen a group pick up something they didn't like because someone else wanted them to.

[NeverRamza]

I like the .hack stuff you guys subbed a little while back!

Would you be willing to subtitle the Galaxy Express 999 TV series? It has never been digisubbed before. I have translations for many episodes of the series already if you need them.

[chibikit]

complich8: Thank you for making my point more obvious. As we all know, sarcasm doesn't translate well in the medium of the Internet. ^_^

holyangel: I'm not trying to put you down. If anything, I'm defending you. However your reaction will help to prove the point I'm trying to make. ^_^

Jappi: My entire reason for posting the sarcastic post is to point out to you how absurd the things that you are saying sound to me. Maybe you're not really meaning it - perhaps you are one of the people who argue most effectively by being as offensive to the person being argued against (in this case, Su-Yu) as possible - but to me it seems like you are and you honestly in believe what you are saying. If the opposite is true then I apologize for everything that I have and will say about your words.

It seems rather bizarre to me that someone should try to force/intimidate any fansubbers to do a series that the subbers aren't interested in by suggesting that they are "leeching f#*%s" if they don't. Equally bizarre is the idea that a fansubber that IS doing a show that they care about, but is happened to be subbed by a lot of other groups as well at the time, is somehow wrong in doing so. The latter is further compounded by the suggestion that such groups should drop that series that they really want to do in favour of something that they may not want to.

Quite honestly, does anyone outside of the group itself has the right to somehow demand that these groups fall in line with their wishes, without regard to the desires of the groups themselves? It could, and probably will, be argued that these groups should be doing it for the fans. As complich8 points out, though, the group themselves are fans of anime - why else would they be subbing it if they didn't think that it's worth doing? - and so they do have a right to want to sub an anime that they want to sub regardless of what anyone else says (with the exception of their region's licensing companies and the anime studios themselves, of course). In fact, it is probably best that they do sub something they want to sub rather than do a series that doesn't stoke the fire of passion in them just to fulfil some idea that a true fansub group is one that does what no one else is doing. This will only lead to the group doing substandard work, because there will not any motivation and hence dedication there; keep in mind that fansub groups are not paid to do this and are doing it as a hobby for free.

As to the question of why fansubbers are doing what they are doing, how can we really tell if they are doing it for the love anime rather than the love of fame anyway? Anyone with any experience in human relationships can tell you that the human heart is the hardest thing to fathom, if it is at all possible. Let's say a group does a rare anime and it brings their name to the forefront of the fansub community for doing so. Can we really say that they did it because they thought the series is really good and it's a pity taht no one else knows about it? Could it be that they did it knowing that by doing so they'll be making a name for themselves? My point here is that good things do not always come from good intentions and vice versa, and it would be erronous to think otherwise.

My arguments here do not refer to Su-Yu specifically, but to all fansubbers - and that includes Su-Yu.

So to Jappi and people who along similar lines, I have one suggestion for you: if you wish to see an obscure anime that you really love subbed, either suggest it nicely to a group instead of trying to bully them into it, or form a group and sub it yourselves. Honestly, you have no right to forcefully impose such wishes on a group, and even if you still want to do so, remember that people are more inclined to cooperate with you if you ask nicely.

Of course, I don't expect anyone to suddenly turn around and agree with my thoughts on this, nor am I suggesting that anyone who doesn't agree with me is somehow mentally or morally deficient; these will only make me hypocritical. What I am doing is saying my piece, and now that I have said it, I hope some good will come out of it.

Finally, I'd just like to say good on Su-Yu for moving on from pure DVD-rips and onto actual fansubbing, and here's hoping that your work quality (which I have not actually seen) will achieve the levels you hope it will.

[complich8]

yeah .... sarcasm is hard to express here, unless you beat the person over the head with it... its more of a spoken-word tool than a written-word one... and more and more I'm picking up that "fansubbers owe the leechers their anime" and "we're entitled to fansubs" in a LOT of people, both on forums and on irc.

Finally, I'd just like to say good on Su-Yu for moving on from pure DVD-rips and onto actual fansubbing, and here's hoping that your work quality (which I have not actually seen) will achieve the levels you hope it will.

I have seen a couple of groups that started "illegitimate" and worked their way up (I think 'cause its easy to sub a dvd, and with those skills it becomes less of a huge task to actually do the translations and editing -- especially if you're already typesetting and editing your srt's). It's nice, especially when the group making that shift has reasonably nice people taking part in it...

on a side note ..... damn, I'm getting bitter lately. Maybe I need a vacation.

[holyangel]

What's so different about subbing dvd and fansubbing? after all the only difference is in the raw and the encoding section. You simply get a DVD Raw, that's it, and fansubbing, you simply get a Digital Raw. And in the encoding section, a DVD raw is harder to encode then encoding a Digital Raw.

Don't compare us with groups like Shinsen Subs who directly rip subtittles off the DVD and claim as theirs. We simply use the DVD Raw, that's all.

Galaxy Express 999 TV series , Live Evil is planning to do that series, and so we won't be picking a " fight " with them.

Oh ya, though we say we picked 3 tittles... we won't be able to do them at the same time ^^!! Most likey 1 at a time.. given the fact that we still have our own planned projects and a shortage of translators and raw providers.

The good news is, we're going to purchase a new hosting package to solve our current distro problems ^^. This include 1 unlimited speed & bandwidth XDCC Bot, 6gigz of harddisk space and http downloads for staff ^^ very fair deal hehehe

[Enragin_Angel]

Well, the original source will always be better. Since we don't have the original source....we can get the next best thing...the DVD(or laserdisc if its old). When you get an MPEG-4 DVD rip it will never be as good as the DVD. It can be close...but not as good as. I could take the time to explain it but there's far too many reasons. Being an encoder, my eye is trained for this stuff and its more of a curse than a gift. I can't even enjoy fansubs as much anymore without scrutinizing the encoding. You may not notice some of these encoding errors but I certainly do.

You don't really have to get the DVD if u don't want to...but then I'd hate to see you call yourself a quality-based group though.

Instead of working backwards and starting with the distro...why don't you buy the DVDs (or get someone to send you vobs) Oh...and one more thing...Don't buy HK DVDs. Not really because of the pirating...but because they are usually crappy video quality. Usually, they're just TV rips. You can tell because some of them have the TV logos still on there while the Japanese R2s do not.

Actually, rereading your post...it kinda sounds like you're talking about R1 DVD rippers as opposed to your own way. Anyway, you can still use the Japanese R2 DVDs as a raw source if you got the money for it. (Japanese anime DVDs are so much more expensive compared to US R1's...even at MSRP!)

[complich8]

competetion and "fights" are different things. Saying "you guys suck, we're better than you all" is picking a fight. Saying "We're subbing this too, check it out" is competition. Sending flooderbots into another channel is fighting. Serving your version of the your release in your channel is competition. Sending people into a competitor's channel when you get a release done faster than they do to spam for more leeches is fighting. Posting on a forum when your release is out before a competitor's is competition.

It's this reason that I don't mind that all my friends watch anime-station's read or die tv before my version comes out. They've never done anything bad to us. They've done a decent job, and they're beating our asses for speed. (Good job a-s, btw). It's this reason that several of the original ops of animerev are still on animeone's autokick list to this day. Not because we have anything against animerev, but because when they were releasing naruto eps before we were they came into our channel and spammed, a LOT. But that's old bad blood, and not really relevant anymore except as an example of what I meant by "picking fights".

Anyway, to your other question .... If you're translating it, editing it, timing it, typesetting it, and encoding it, you're doing everything that classifies it as a fansub. I won't say you're a "dvd rip group" if you're encoding with dvd sourced raws. Heck, more power to ya! Better video quality is never a bad thing, and a lot of groups around do dvd sourced encodes for OVA's and other stuff that comes out on dvd only -- since its out on dvd, might as well use the dvds. But if its out on dvd with english subs, and you rip them, you're just a dvd ripper. I never meant to say "this is you, looky!" I'm not comparing you specifically to anyone, I don't know your history or what you've done, i'm just making a general comment.

Ever notice that I'm the king of off-topic-ness though? I've never seen a thing you've done, I'd never really heard of you before this thread, but here I am posting replies to "suteki-yume requesting feedback" ....

Anyway, I personally don't draw a distinction between subbing licensed and subbing unlicensed, which explains why I still hang out with animeone <sarcasm>omg those evil bastards are unethical! look at them sub gungrave and aya-enishi!</sarcasm>. I was just posting off topic because that's what I do. Nothing directed toward or against you, just giving my $.02 about where the thread was going at the time.

Good to hear your distro problems may be going away. With more edus imposing bandwidth limits, and more users raping what bandwidth the universities have on kazaa and dc, and with more people in general having computers and especially broadband, it's getting hard to find fast unrestricted donor bandwidth. If ya got a good deal, pass the info around! Always like to hear about good deals on bandwidth -- since every group that doesn't r00t extensively or have a huge legit bot provider seems to have probs with it.

Whether you're competing with one of our projects or not (hell, the way aone's been lately you can't help but compete, since we've got too many staff members who want to sub everydamnedthing lately), I wish you the best. Remember that if you're not having fun, you're not doing your job as a fansubber, and if you are having fun and doing what you like, you're successful no matter how many people watch what you made.

I'm gonna go have fun sleeping now. And then going to the last session of a class that I'm probably going to fail! WHEEEE!!!!!! (I blame animesuki, gotwoot, and the fact that I'm a lazy bastard when it comes to things I don't care about -- and not really animesuki and gotwoot ^_^).

[Cyberdramon]

And what three shows are they?

Two of them are Rockman.EXE Axess and Overman King Gainer, right? Funny...

[holyangel]

Very funny, My friend.. I already say before.. don't decide for us what project we should drop. And now let me add another... don't decide for us what project we will be planning. Just to let u know, those 2 tittles u mention are nowhere near the 3 new projects we picked.

You have a right to laugh, but if you talk about something you have no idea of and you laugh at it like an idiot, I'll punch you till your red boxers drop.

And complich8, we simply uses DVD raws for DVD projects, nothing more.

And Enragin_Angel, who says we can't make Digital Encodes look close to DVD Encodes hehe... nothing is impossible hehe

[Cyberdramon]

So is that confirmation that you're not doing Rockman.EXE Axess and Overman King Gainer?

[holyangel]

Overman King Gainer and Rockman Exe Axess will go as planned still... though we might work on one of the 3 new projects first before Overman King Gainer... but it depends I suppose..

[Cyberdramon]

No offense, but why can't you pick your own projects that nobody else is doing?

[zalas]

You have a right to laugh, but if you talk about something you have no idea of and you laugh at it like an idiot, I'll punch you till your red boxers drop.

And complich8, we simply uses DVD raws for DVD projects, nothing more.

And Enragin_Angel, who says we can't make Digital Encodes look close to DVD Encodes hehe... nothing is impossible hehe

We are already half dead paying for our bots and server and you expect us to buy DVD still... aren't that abit too much?

I'm assuming by these two quotes that you download MPEG4 rips of DVDs instead of getting the actual DVDs? And you simply can't make Digital Encodes look like DVDs, you can get sort of close, close enough for the average leecher, but most broadcasts kill a lot of color information, plus the fact that you chop off a lot of color information when encoding to MPEG4 anyways. WarpSharp, etc, don't give you back the information you lost, though they make the information loss less perceptible.

[holyangel]

o.0 who told you wrapsharp is used by us hehe... we have our own ways... and as I already say.. close to a dvd encode.. not close to the dvd itself. A DVD encode and a DVD has a very big difference already.

[stsaturn]

First off thanks a million for keeping the Gundam X project going, I am very egar to replace my old 320x240 low quality Gundam X. One question though, Gundam X 1-17 were perfect what happened to Gundam X 18v2? No offence but the audio was pretty bad. Is the problem something I can fix myself? Thanks again for keeping the Gundam X project alive!

[microlith]

I'm assuming by these two quotes that you download MPEG4 rips of DVDs instead of getting the actual DVDs?

This could be the case as they say their dvd supplier is "anonymous," but it's pretty pathetic.

Their DVD sources are anime-cartoon bootlegs. I'd have more respect for the group if they were actually using R2s to do the job. If they're not leeches one way, they're leeches another.

[NenMaster]

what is a leecher?
can a fansubber be a leecher?

What is a leecher? Why do I get called that?

A leecher is basically someone who just downloads and doesn't care about the host or the time that went into making the anime/manga/file that someone made. Imagine making a great fansub, forking out for a host, providing it for download, and then having the server get overloaded and then getting statements or emails sayin "Your server is screwed, fix it now" or "I don't like your server, you should do this" or even "Where is it? Give it to me now". Some leechers are an ungrateful little ratbags that only looks out for themselves and gives nothing to the anime community in return. Unfortunately, 50% of anime downloaders are leechers, and almost every time someone calls you a leecher, they are probably a leecher themselves anyway, trying to look cool.

what ever job some1 does in a fansub group they arnt a leecher!

[Shift_]

First of all...for a "DVD Source" the Gundam X has pretty awful picture, lots of noise and it's too sharp at times, but you've stated that you don't own the DVDs no one in your group does, you just get Mpeg4 conversions of DVDs which SHOULD be better...I mean it's not hard to make a NICE looking encode with a DVD source. But you're the only group doing the series and I REALLY appreciate that.

You should get your channel in shape first, have Fservs that are DEDICATED TO YOU and SERVING your stuff.

Getting Gundam X 5-17 is next to impossible since there is ONLY one fserv serving it, and it's not all too fast.

Why do you need to buy bots? You just need to pay for webspace and use of a tracker. JUST get Fserves, and People with fast connections will come to you.

Don't do things other groups are doing, that'll just burden you with more tasks that very few people will watch, and won't help your channel grow. Do unique things that other groups haven't done, if it's good your channel will grow, and people will want to serve/xdcc your stuff for you.

[NenMaster]

shift said it

i dont see the problem subbing a series that will make u popular

this in time will get loads of fans and it will hopefully lead to the group getting more team members and that will lead to more series

[Panon]

I'm assuming by these two quotes that you download MPEG4 rips of DVDs instead of getting the actual DVDs?

This could be the case as they say their dvd supplier is "anonymous," but it's pretty pathetic.

Their DVD sources are anime-cartoon bootlegs. I'd have more respect for the group if they were actually using R2s to do the job. If they're not leeches one way, they're leeches another.

R2's of Gundam X do not exist, so they're just using the next best thing, ease of obtaining wise.

[complich8]

what is a leecher?
can a fansubber be a leecher?

what ever job some1 does in a fansub group they arnt a leecher!

I disagree*! I'm a leech and proud of it! I work on my group's stuff when I can (which is getting less and less frequent, lately), but I download everything we do, and a lot of other series from a lot of other groups. To my group, I may be a valued member, but to anime-keep when I hopped on their maburaho torrents today with my upload reasonably capped (because my bandwidth is limited both directions, and I download a lot of stuff from a lot of places), I am a leecher. Same as my grabbing a-flux's tenshi no shippo chu batch torrent a couple days ago. When I grab the latest from any other group, I'm a leech, at least as far as they are concerned.

I think leecher is a relative term though, like I kind of explained. While I'm valuable to my group, I'm of no value to other groups (except maybe comic relief, or a useful contact to get hookups from our distro points from time to time). But I do care about the time and effort that went into making the eps, and the effort that went into distributing them. I view leech as a neutral term because of that: you can be a conscientous leech, or a selfish greedy leech. The difference is purely attitude.

[edit: *- disagreeing with the last line stated in the quote, not the whole quote]

[holyangel]

GX encoding is no longer under me first of all... and we already have a shifting of raw provider for this anime errr like say 3 or 4 times... we won't be shifting anymore... We already notice the problem with the audio.. but normally audio doesn't turn bad during encoding so if you think the audio is bad... blame it on the raw's audio lolz... but we'll see what we can do... HK DVD sux lolz.. and that's the only HQ enough raws we can find...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you need to buy bots? You just need to pay for webspace and use of a tracker. JUST get Fserves, and People with fast connections will come to you.
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Ans : It's very simple.. you just got your EDU line and you are jumping with madness. But would you like to join groups like Anime-Keep, Anime-Forever, Anime-Kraze or end up in a nobody group?

Secondly, you need to have a place where you can dump your raws , or rather refered to as raw distro. This place has to be up 24/7 , 0 downtime. The place has to be fast, or it's gonna take forever to start work. After encoding, and before releasing.. you need a place to distro the files to the bt seeders and those so called fserve with fast speed. Thus, you need to first purchase a server ^_^

Third, you think those high speed xdcc bots you see being setup at your favourite groups are really people who offered to help? Think again... you don't see 10mbits line everywhere... and 10mbit lines are not your normal home lines.

Last but not least... blah blah blah

[DekaMaster]

Ans : It's very simple.. you just got your EDU line and you are jumping with madness. But would you like to join groups like Anime-Keep, Anime-Forever, Anime-Kraze or end up in a nobody group?


A "Nobody Group" and would you be so BIG as to list nobody groups. OR would that be above you?

[Forse]

Third, you think those high speed xdcc bots you see being setup at your favourite groups are really people who offered to help? Think again... you don't see 10mbits line everywhere... and 10mbit lines are not your normal home lines.
Not true! I have 10/10mbit line at home ;)

[holyangel]

A "Nobody Group" and would you be so BIG as to list nobody groups. OR would that be above you?


Dude... you need a english lesson... If u read properly... that " Nobody Group " is refering to ourself. Ok let me make it more simple to understand.. just for you.

Here's what I said

It's very simple.. you just got your EDU line and you are jumping with madness. But would you like to join groups like Anime-Keep, Anime-Forever, Anime-Kraze or end up in a nobody group?

What i'm trying to say is that would you rather join big groups like Anime Keep , Anime-Forever or Anime Kraze's Distro or would you join a nobody group like suteki-yume?

And Forse lolz.. we all know you have 2, 10mbit lines hehe... and you're proud of it lolz... and a 10mbit line doesn't mean you 100% has a 1mb upload speed hehe but rather a 1mb download speed instead hehe

[Forse]

And Forse lolz.. we all know you have 2, 10mbit lines hehe... and you're proud of it lolz... and a 10mbit line doesn't mean you 100% has a 1mb upload speed hehe but rather a 1mb download speed instead hehe

Proud...nope I don't think so! I would be proud if I had 100mb/100mb...and btw I do have 1MB/s upload:

http://www.animeblitz.org/Temp/Pics/iptraf.jpg

anyway that isn't a point...there are ppl out there (I know some) that has much better! My point was that some ppl do have high-speed links and they're willing to share for the good of distro ;)

[NenMaster]

ure in a country where thats available and resonble priced

if it was here and good priced ill have 10mbit line, but as it costs £45 for 2mbit line u can see how a 10mbit line will cost, even though many isps dont provide them here for homeuse

[NenMaster]

I disagree*! I'm a leech and proud of it! I work on my group's stuff when I can (which is getting less and less frequent, lately), but I download everything we do, and a lot of other series from a lot of other groups. To my group, I may be a valued member, but to anime-keep when I hopped on their maburaho torrents today with my upload reasonably capped (because my bandwidth is limited both directions, and I download a lot of stuff from a lot of places), I am a leecher. Same as my grabbing a-flux's tenshi no shippo chu batch torrent a couple days ago. When I grab the latest from any other group, I'm a leech, at least as far as they are concerned.

I think leecher is a relative term though, like I kind of explained. While I'm valuable to my group, I'm of no value to other groups (except maybe comic relief, or a useful contact to get hookups from our distro points from time to time). But I do care about the time and effort that went into making the eps, and the effort that went into distributing them. I view leech as a neutral term because of that: you can be a conscientous leech, or a selfish greedy leech. The difference is purely attitude.

[edit: *- disagreeing with the last line stated in the quote, not the whole quote]

people dont know what leech really is so if anyone who downloads alot, they are called a leech. never mind the 30% u may upload of ure total download

u aint a leech, ure a dl whore, nothing more nothing less :) same with me, heh

[DekaMaster]

Dude... you need a english lesson... If u read properly... that " Nobody Group " is refering to ourself. Ok let me make it more simple to understand.. just for you.

Here's what I said

It's very simple.. you just got your EDU line and you are jumping with madness. But would you like to join groups like Anime-Keep, Anime-Forever, Anime-Kraze or end up in a nobody group?

What i'm trying to say is that would you rather join big groups like Anime Keep , Anime-Forever or Anime Kraze's Distro or would you join a nobody group like suteki-yume?

And Forse lolz.. we all know you have 2, 10mbit lines hehe... and you're proud of it lolz... and a 10mbit line doesn't mean you 100% has a 1mb upload speed hehe but rather a 1mb download speed instead hehe


I would rather join up with groups I respect. *You

[Xiandu]

Hmm surprised to still see this thread open. Funny how SU-YU is only asking for help, yet all they got was a bunch of flaming and a bunch of idiots who want to argue Holy Angel's every word and request. Let them sub whatever they want, it is THEIR right to sub whatever the hell they want so who the fuck are you to say otherwise. However, Chrno Crusade is being doing by everyone, so i would move onto another show that you guys would like to sub. Anyways leave Su-Yu alone unless you are complementing them or are interested in helping them. Just makes no sense to rip them because you feel like it or don't like them. Lets keep the forum a happy place ok. Now kiddies, i know most of you are, go get along now.

[LordBrian]

Let them sub whatever they want, it is THEIR right to sub whatever the hell they wantActually, if you want to get technical, they really don't have the legal right to sub whatever they want. But that's another discussion entirely -- I just didn't want it to look like we're only arguing with one person's every word. ;)

[Zerox20]

WOW! I can't believe this thread is still going!

Here we go! Holyangel, just give it time!

Let me tell you when anime-kraze first started out we had like 100 users, and no bots and just me and few others running fservers for Inuyasha, Inuyasha is a big following (almost like drugs! ::shivers::) This was before BitTorrent was even out in the masses. Once more users starting coming in we got donated Raw dumpsites, etc We are still a rather young channel compared to keep/AonE/etc Probably the youngest. To be honest its nearly impossible to get in the scene now, Even us in Anime-kraze, even if you goto all of those fansub review sites and they all say our version is 'best' so to speak, if you look at BT downloads AonE/Keep stuff owns everybodies. Just like AJ use to do back in the day. The reason most people don't bother with as you call it 'nobody group' is because they don't feel it worth their time anymore because of big groups like this. To be honest I don't like Anime-kraze is in that big group of 'channels' because of the fact we sub the least out of all of them and still take the longest hehe. AonE/Keep do every project that comes across em, and still put decent product, again my props to them. All I can say is, wait for a new season and just focus on that, and build your reputation up, find a series nobody else is doing, maybe an older one I really don't know, its very hard to start a fansub group now because of the big '5' I guess as they call it.

Another way is to perhaps look at joint projects with some of the more established groups, combine your resources, most of the bigger groups are stuffed full so if its a project they are interested in + joint, it would be less work for both groups.

And if you want to joint with anime-kraze I am always open to suggestions. But we are very picky people, hence why our releases always get pushed back =_=. I wish you luck though, its going to be very hard, I Can tell you right now, if Anime-kraze started up now, I hightly doubt we would have gotten established. We formed when AJ broke off, Anime-Kyokuten slowed up, Uptownanime died off. So we kind of had an advantage there.

[a_ndy]

I'm really enjoying the Suteki-Yume Gundam X fansubs. Are there any plans to reseed episodes 5-17 too?

[complich8]

WOW! I can't believe this thread is still going!

Let me tell you when anime-kraze first started out we had like 100 users, and no bots and just me and few others running fservers for Inuyasha, Inuyasha is a big following (almost like drugs! ::shivers::)

its very hard to start a fansub group now because of the big '5' I guess as they call it.

yeah ... this thread should have been over with a while back, but its still here....

when I joined animeone we had .... about 250 people. a week after I joined the channel the first time, someone got the founder pass back on dalnet, aone got kicked out of their own main channel, regrouped in animeone-aone@dalnet while the dal ircops closed the old channel for a month.

When we first started, the "big ones" were elite-fansubs, anime-empire, a couple other huge groups that I don't even remember. ANBU was still a hidden village of subbers, HQA was around and did about everything with ANBU, soldats were around, bakamx did huge things, etc. The scene was less crowded but more elitist, with several "experienced" people who decided they were gods and everyone else sucked a big nut. Other people around didn't care that other people wanted to play, figuring there was plenty of room for everyone.

Now our "little" groups - aone, akraze, akeep -- groups that used to be little -- are considered "big" ones. We all fought for our reputations. We all did things we liked, and I think we all built huge followings off of particular series -- for example, 2000 or so of the 3000ish people in animeone's irc channel came since naruto, but 1500 of those naruto-drawn people stay for our other stuff now. A-Kraze has their continuing inuyasha-fan plague but those fans follow other stuff too, giving kraze a relatively loyal following. I dunno what made keep so big, but they've been huge for a long time too. e-f had lots of big stuff -- vandread and hng for two.

what's the winning recipe for being a hugeass group that loses itself in the midst of its leecher hordes? Probably consistency, a blend of quality and speed, and finding some popular "key" series. But what's the recipe for a group that enjoys what they do? Probably the people involved. Nothing else, really. It has to be the people, not the goals, not the achievements, not the fans, not even the series you do or the quality of work. Just the people you do it with. Get a fun crew, and you'll be what I'd call "successful".

Gah, I've become one of those old-timers who babbles incessantly about irrelevant things! Soon I'm going to have to retire to my rocking chair in southwest florida and join the fansubber retirement community, or something :-p

[Nins]

Well I think Suteki-Yume is doing a good job so far.. esp being pretty new and all... I would like the continuation of Gundam X and other less popular anime to be subbed by you guys/gals....

On the topic of feedback, is it possible to install some xdcc distro bots on your mirc channel for your anime series since BT seems to be really slow....

thanx and keep up the good work!

[jir0]

I'm currently following Gundam X from Su-yu. I like old-school. So, su-yu's got a place on my fave groups. good stuff, keep them coming.

[holyangel]

hmmm haha sorry... been gone for say a long long time... been working... got a gay job.. just resigned though.. so less busy now hehe... at least for the moment...

^^!! hmmm we have a internal distro setup complete and stable down already... we are looking into public distro now...

It's not easy to get a good host for a bot since firstly it's expensive and you don't wanna pay for something only to find out that it sux connecting to a certain area... though the really good ones are damn expensive... ^^!! Might purchase a 6mbps bot for the moment though if the host I'm dicussing with accepts paypal...

No EDU or fast connection wanna help out >_< guess we don't work hard enough hehe... but that is changing soon as we come out of hiding at the end of this week

Good news to the GX fans though... reseeding on GX 1-17 will most likey finish by the end of this week, GX 19 - 23 are already being work on after a long pause. Most likey something gonna come out soon... hopefully... the DVD provider love to format his PC alot and he happens to be the encoder also... * Shakes head *

[-|(aGe-BuNsHiN-]

This is a pretty old thread but I would like all you people to know, that because you guys so specifically "gang banged" on Suteki Yume even after they corrected their mistakes, the founder, Holy angel, has decided to quit.

If I followed my emotions right now, I would flame many of you for a full page but I know the rules here and I won't flame.

But Seriously what was your reason for singling this group out? They actually corrected their mistakes and tried to take on your requests and all you did was scorn them and keep bsing about the same mistakes that were ALRDY corrected. You guys need to check yourself and do some more research before you ruin a perfectly civil fansub group like this.

[zalas]

This is a pretty old thread but I would like all you people to know, that because you guys so specifically "gang banged" on Suteki Yume even after they corrected their mistakes, the founder, Holy angel, has decided to quit.

If I followed my emotions right now, I would flame many of you for a full page but I know the rules here and I won't flame.

But Seriously what was your reason for singling this group out? They actually corrected their mistakes and tried to take on your requests and all you did was scorn them and keep bsing about the same mistakes that were ALRDY corrected. You guys need to check yourself and do some more research before you ruin a perfectly civil fansub group like this.
I think the reasons might have been that holyangel didn't give everyone a very good first impression, and his personality wasn't a plus either. Furthermore, their works didn't really improve in quality. I watched their Angel Rabbie, and for the harder translation parts, they pretty made up what ever went along with the picture. Now I know the predicament of not being to able to figure out something and having to send something out. However, they *could* have spent some extra time or maybe even asked another translator for help. They could also have just indicated to the watcher in an attached note or something stating that the line at that point may be iffy. (I remember seeing an early Abenobashi fansub that didn't translate part of the last part of the first episode, and they basically stated it was not possible for them to translate that part as a note on the screen). Furthermore, I don't if this was intentional, but ironically their fansubber credits has "Timer" spelled as "Timmer." Now, I don't mind the screwups at first if groups end up getting better (learning from experience), but from holyangel's attitude, it didn't seem to be very much the case. Many groups started pretty low, and I guess he didn't feel that he was able to redirect the group into a better one. (AnimeMPEG started out originally as an anime trading channel for all sorts of anime (licensed or not))

[-|(aGe-BuNsHiN-]

Relating to the quality issue - every fan sub group has one issue or another quality wise and seeing as how they were a relatively new "young" group, you cant expect them to be as good as some of the veterans seeing as how they are short on hands as well. On the issue of personality, holyangel's personal characteristics shouldnt have any effects on the critique of the fansub group itself. Although holyangel was the founder of SuYu, he wasnt the only one in the group and therefore, you condemning the whole group just because of his personality was wrong in my opinion. BTW- holyangel was merely trying to be nice and laugh off some of the flaming by joking around. Maybe this offended you but this was his way of avoiding trouble.

[stsaturn]

I was wondering why there were no more GX subs. Great job guys lets be @ssholes to everyone who makes mistakes even though they give us free anime. Fansubbing is not a profitable field to work in to start with so find someone else to b*tch at. Seriously its not like your losing anything by downloading their works. Well maybe your time, but just think of how long it took to produce the end resuld for you to download.

IMO Fansubs = Preview for US release.

If you want 99.9% quality BUY THE DVD WHEN IT COMES OUT LIKE YOU SHOULD whoa theres an idea.


Edited for language