PDA

View Full Version : Licensed Kannaduki no Miko


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 [6]

Ju_ko
2004-12-31, 01:54
For Dreamless, about an about 2 days old post. I know, it's has been ages.


First off, smart talk. very sensible and sensitive. ^^


I'd like to react to your passage about Souma's rôle in the serie.


Quote:

I'm not sure about whether he made a difference or not. What's a difference anyway? I don't think Chikane or Himeko made any difference, they can let the world get destroyed by Orochi and what's the difference? but anyway he made enough of a difference so Himeko doesn't get killed by him, and the two mikos don't get burned to crisp in the first episode. For the Ama no Murakumo part, no one has any idea what Chikane's purpose was at that time, not anyone in KnM, not even any one of us outside viewers. No one knows the future. He made his decision and spent efforts trying his best, whether it makes a difference or not in the end is not up to him. However he definitely never overrates himself, he's doing what he can, and he's trying to improve himself and overcome all difficulty despite the odds. In this case what matters most is not the result, but the fact that he already tries his best and makes efforts trying to do the right thing. He has trained himself, he has fought against destiny, he has done his best, whether he wins or not in the end, is not the important thing here.


I think, on a narrative point of vue, that Souma is the counter figure of Chikane.
The main characters are entangled is a triangular love relationship, or so it seems, during most of the show.
Someone's mental health influences his/her behaviour when confronted to traumatic events. You posted about it, I think.
Well... Souma and Chikane are both Himeko's lovers (taken as "in love with her", reciprocity isn't needed at this point)
Souma incarnates the ultimate unconditional Love, a kind that does not need to receive to be happy to give.
Chikane incarnates the consuming passion. Her love is obsession, pain, frustrations, lonelyness.

So, when it comes to the rôle Souma has in the serie, I believe he's there to give as much health as possible to an already emotionally broken Himeko. Souma's is Himeko's path to emotional health. It is clearly stated in the serie by Himeko "I was also given the power by others" in ep. 10. "Others", including Souma and especially him when you consider the 'Triangle' as the main emotional vessel for the serie.

So... Clearly souma has a main and important rôle in the serie, imho, of course.

-S

PS: I'll introduce myself properly... soon.... ^_-

Timeless Enigma
2004-12-31, 02:10
Yes, Oogami is certainly a character foil for Chikane. I liked how you explained it.

The Yellow Dwarf
2004-12-31, 03:18
Well... Souma and Chikane are both Himeko's lovers (taken as "in love with her", reciprocity isn't needed at this point)
Souma incarnates the ultimate unconditional Love, a kind that does not need to receive to be happy to give.
Chikane incarnates the consuming passion. Her love is obsession, pain, frustrations, lonelyness.
Hmm...well, I don't really disagree with you, but let me just throw an idea out here:

Is Souma's final, quiet acceptance of defeat a sign of the "ultimate unconditional" Love, or does he simply not love Himeko enough? Throughout the series Souma has been a little wish-washy about his stance towards Himeko. The date and the kiss are especially awkward as he repeatedly apologizes as if he is failing some sort of tests. It seems as if there is little emotion involved (only rage and disapointment at not being able to fulfil certain tasks e.g. "protect Himeko" if any). Souma's "love" seem to be immersed in the logical "responsibilities" and little on the emotional aspect.

It seems as if Souma is not really certain if he really loves Himeko, or even if he does he's afraid of showing it. Is it a sign of consideration or low self-esteem? Perhaps his repeated attempts to "protect Himeko", to "help others", to "save the Earth" are nothing but attempts to reassure himself his own place and importance in the world? To reassure himself that he is needed? Or perhaps, to repeat what his own brother did for him?

Does Souma really love Himeko, or does he love anybody whom needs "protection" and that person just happens to be Himeko?

Well...just an idea, not sure if I myself believe it. Feel free to to tear it apart. :)

evil|plushie
2004-12-31, 04:15
Hmm...well, I don't really disagree with you, but let me just throw an idea out here:

Is Souma's final, quiet acceptance of defeat a sign of the "ultimate unconditional" Love, or does he simply not love Himeko enough? Throughout the series Souma has been a little wish-washy about his stance towards Himeko. The date and the kiss are especially awkward as he repeatedly apologizes as if he is failing some sort of tests. It seems as if there is little emotion involved (only rage and disapointment at not being able to fulfil certain tasks e.g. "protect Himeko" if any). Souma's "love" seem to be immersed in the logical "responsibilities" and little on the emotional aspect.

It seems as if Souma is not really certain if he really loves Himeko, or even if he does he's afraid of showing it. Is it a sign of consideration or low self-esteem? Perhaps his repeated attempts to "protect Himeko", to "help others", to "save the Earth" are nothing but attempts to reassure himself his own place and importance in the world? To reassure himself that he is needed? Or perhaps, to repeat what his own brother did for him?

Does Souma really love Himeko, or does he love anybody whom needs "protection" and that person just happens to be Himeko?

Well...just an idea, not sure if I myself believe it. Feel free to to tear it apart. :)


Souma...wishy washy about Himeko? When? He likes Himeko but he's afraid of doing something wrong and being rejected. It's partially the reason why Chikane herself didn't say anything to Himeko that she loved her for the 1st 6 episodes or so. If you use that analysis to judge Souma, you can just as easily judge Chikane by the same standards.

Let's put it this way, frankly, NO ONE in the entire series has a valid reason to like Himeko in their present life. I'm not a fan of 'oh, we were soulmates in the past life' plotline either...

Otoh, I suppose if Souma raped Himeko and then killed Orochi for her, that'd count as the ultimate fulfillment of love then -_-

Mentar
2004-12-31, 04:46
Hi Sophie, welcome to this board ;)


Souma incarnates the ultimate unconditional Love, a kind that does not need to receive to be happy to give.
Chikane incarnates the consuming passion. Her love is obsession, pain, frustrations, lonelyness.


Hmmm... I'd say yes and no to that. Your distinction seems to deny Chikane's love certain attributes like being "unconditional", which is a bit misleading. If you look at the series from the end, Chikane was prepared to give till her very end (until 5:45 in the final episode, when her plan was completed - handing the symbolic hairpin back to Himeko, indicating "He will be the one caring for you from now on"), without receiving the "only thing she ever desired". This deserves most of your Souma description, this WAS unconditional love happy to give - however not "doesn't need to receive", but "regardless of unfulfilled needs". Which is something even greater in my opinion.

So, when it comes to the rôle Souma has in the serie, I believe he's there to give as much health as possible to an already emotionally broken Himeko. Souma's is Himeko's path to emotional health. It is clearly stated in the serie by Himeko "I was also given the power by others" in ep. 10. "Others", including Souma and especially him when you consider the 'Triangle' as the main emotional vessel for the serie.

INCLUDING him, I'd agree with this. His kindness helped Himeko on her way, but the person who played the major role for Himeko's emotional recovery was Chikane. Himeko's happy hours narrated in the anime were almost exclusively with Chikane, the Souma dates always had a lingering unease with them. And the climax of the Souma arc, the kiss, didn't lead to Himeko's happiness, but tears.

If I had to characterize the similarities and differences between Souma and Chikane, I think I'd try it this way: Both are similar in their willingness to care for the one they love - being prepared to die for her. This is genuine unconditional love to the highest degree, in both cases. The main difference I see is that Chikane NEEDS Himeko more than Souma does. This corresponds with the main part of your initial characterization - Chikane's form of love puts a much higher strain on her, because she's missing the reciprocated feelings from Himeko, much more than Souma does (who seems genuinely fine with NOT having Himeko as long as she's happy). Chikane is still doing all she can regardless of her pain, but she is NOT fine. That's the difference I'd see.

This is also why I'm happy with the outcome. Both are fine contenders for Himeko's affection, but Chikane NEEDS it more. From other animes, usually I find myself siding with the character in a love triangle who NEEDS the other one more, not the character who would be more "morally deserving". And in the case of Himeko, I believe that the final episode makes clear that she also NEEDS Chikane, and that a life with Souma, but without Chikane, would not be fulfilling for her.

Therefore I'd still call Souma a major character in the drama, but Himeko needed Chikane - and vice versa.

Takemi_Ikazuchi
2004-12-31, 06:04
It is clearly stated in the serie by Himeko "I was also given the power by others" in ep. 10. "Others", including Souma and especially him when you consider the 'Triangle' as the main emotional vessel for the serie.

Actually she was primarily referring to Chikane, as the visions during the summoning ritual indicated. It was Himeko's affection towards Chikane that was her major drive. That scene served as a double irony in my opinion. Souma receives his courage from Himeko, who in turn receives courage from Chikane.

To add insult to injury, we see a scene of an upset Souma staring at the crescent moon much later in the episode.

Personally I don't Souma helped very much to heal her emotional wounds. I know that he wanted to, mind you, but after episode 8 Himeko's mind is, how shall I put it... focused on a single issue and nearly deaf of all other matters.

On another note I believe that this episode also served as a beacon for Souma. Episode 10 combined with the earlier episode 8 and upcoming episode 11 served as hint to him regarding the state of Himeko's mindset. He had time to think and anticipate the outcome, and as a result he wasn't as surprised as he should be went Himeko dropped the news to him.

dreamless
2004-12-31, 07:22
Hmm...well, I don't really disagree with you, but let me just throw an idea out here:

Is Souma's final, quiet acceptance of defeat a sign of the "ultimate unconditional" Love, or does he simply not love Himeko enough? Throughout the series Souma has been a little wish-washy about his stance towards Himeko. The date and the kiss are especially awkward as he repeatedly apologizes as if he is failing some sort of tests. It seems as if there is little emotion involved (only rage and disapointment at not being able to fulfil certain tasks e.g. "protect Himeko" if any). Souma's "love" seem to be immersed in the logical "responsibilities" and little on the emotional aspect.

It seems as if Souma is not really certain if he really loves Himeko, or even if he does he's afraid of showing it. Is it a sign of consideration or low self-esteem? Perhaps his repeated attempts to "protect Himeko", to "help others", to "save the Earth" are nothing but attempts to reassure himself his own place and importance in the world? To reassure himself that he is needed? Or perhaps, to repeat what his own brother did for him?

Does Souma really love Himeko, or does he love anybody whom needs "protection" and that person just happens to be Himeko?

Well...just an idea, not sure if I myself believe it. Feel free to to tear it apart. :)

Huh? He surely loves Himeko, but then actually both Chikane and Souma love Himeko somewhat unconditionally I guess. It's revealed that Chikane is also willing to "give away" Himeko to Souma as long as Himeko is happy, same as Souma. Maybe they both unconditionally love Himeko, in their own different ways.

And frankly I think people should realize that there's no point bashing Souma in Kannaduki no Miko. Kannaduki no Miko is great in that both Chikane and Souma TRUELY loves Himeko. The show will be LAME if Souma doesn't love Himeko, then all the drama is for nothing, heck, so he doesn't really love her? That makes the entire show extremely stupid. Souma sacrificing himself, enduring unimaginable pain and sufferings, all that anger against Orochi, not because of love, but because he wants to reassure his own place? I guess it's the whole ignorance, delusion, whatever nonsense again.

I think some Chikane/yuri fanboys should just accept the fact that Souma is the perfect shounen anime kind of a male protagonist, hotblood, unconditional love, fight evil to protect his important ones, believe in love and sacrifice, etc. etc. and that's part of the reason of why Kannaduki no Miko is so fun to watch. If you want something with pure yuri and no good male characters, then Kannaduki no Miko is not for you :uhoh:

Yup Souma was upset, but not because Himeko loves Chikane, but because Himeko is hurt and he failed his promise to protect her, like any male protagonist in a shounen anime would be.

Mentar
2004-12-31, 07:34
Regardless of having been a staunch Chikane supporter from the start, I've got to agree with dreamless: Souma doesn't deserve most of the bashing he receives on this board in the end :} ... let's keep it nice, people. He's been playing his role, and it _was_ a major one. No need to belittle this.

Takemi_Ikazuchi
2004-12-31, 10:05
Yup Souma was upset, but not because Himeko loves Chikane, but because Himeko is hurt and he failed his promise to protect her, like any male protagonist in a shounen anime would be.

I was referring to the crescent moon scene in episode 10. He was clearly upset in that a scene, and I don't believe the crescent moon symbolism followed by scene in the Himemiya mansion was coincidental. To me the visual metaphore was obvious.

If you have another interpretation of the scene feel free to tell me, though.

dreamless
2004-12-31, 10:21
I was referring to the crescent moon scene in episode 10. He was clearly upset in that a scene, and I don't believe the crescent moon symbolism followed by scene in the Himemiya mansion was coincidental. To me the visual metaphore was obvious.

If you have another interpretation of the scene feel free to tell me, though.
I'm not sure what "visual metaphor" you are talking about here, as far as I see, it's the same "visual metaphor" used as in episode 1, when Souma fight Orochi and shouting "I'll protect Himeko" and it switches with scenes of the girls kissing. Yup I can't stop laughing at that scene in ep1, and I can't stop laughing at that scene in ep10. It's just soooo funny despite it has no real comedy. If you think there's some different "visual metaphor", then please tell us about it.

The Yellow Dwarf
2004-12-31, 19:32
I think some Chikane/yuri fanboys should just accept the fact that Souma is the perfect shounen anime kind of a male protagonist, hotblood, unconditional love, fight evil to protect his important ones, believe in love and sacrifice, etc. etc. and that's part of the reason of why Kannaduki no Miko is so fun to watch. If you want something with pure yuri and no good male characters, then Kannaduki no Miko is not for you :uhoh:
I resent that. I’m as much a “yuri fanboy” as an elephant is Mickey Mouse.

Okay, in order to not be a "yuri fanboy," let's put things in perspective and add Chikane in there as well. Is Souma's "love" for Himeko true or is he simply playing according to the laws of medieval chivalry to satisfy his own ego? Is Chikane truly in love with Himeko or is she so haunted by the guilt of her past life that she seeks release in atonement in the worst possible way? I won't even try to define what "love" is, maybe love is playing along with the rules of what love is supposed to be, e.g. La Traviata followed by a nice dinner in a fancy restaurant; or maybe it is a relief for the burden of past deeds regretted, e.g. because I have never had a university education I’ll make sure my children all get doctoral degrees.

Enter Chikane. Why would someone like Chikane befriend somebody as ordinary as Himeko if not because of the partially buried feelings of a past life? Even though they are barely on friendly terms (in Ep. 1, Himeko still starts by addressing her as “Miya-sama”), she already feels, although quite subconsciously, that the coming birthday would be “a special day” because Himeko would be there. Before the hilarious ending of ep. 1, the first thing that Chikane discovers on Himeko’s body is the mark of the Sun Priestess (although she herself has known about the mark on her body long before). It’s just as likely that seeing the mark triggered something that was not in the present-day Chikane’s mind. (Seeing how Chikane has been unconsciously guided by her past life to ruin the summoning ritual, this is not unlikely that her affection is deeply embedded by her past life as well.) Equally likely, Chikane and Himeko’s encounter in the school garden may be predestined by wills of the past, similar to Ep. 13.

Similarly, after Chikane’s Orochi-fication, her actions are geared simply towards a death by Himeko’s hands. To this end, she is not afraid to do terrible things to everybody, including Himeko. She does not have Himeko’s well-being in mind when she toyed and tortured her both physically and psychologically. Of course an argument could be made that everything would be “restored” once Chikane dies, but would somebody who truly loves a person want to hurt that person, so long as s/he could get away with it? The only possible solution is that Chikane, from that moment of recalling her entire past, has been obsessed by the idea of atonement, specifically, to die by Himeko’s hand. Everything she does from that point is intended only to relieve her own ego of the burdens of guilt.

Prior to the event that leads to Chikane’s sudden metamorphosis, the only factor that contributes to her dislike for Souma is her inability (in comparison to his overwhelming success) to protect Himeko. Throughout the entire series, Himeko is a person, or shall we say, an object to be protected, more or less specifically by Chikane and Souma. Yet, how happy the two are is directly related to how well they can protect Himeko, not how happy or safe Himeko is. This is most apparent in the extremely jealous and possessive Chikane, but it has its traces on Souma as well.

After that “dark and stormy night,” Souma’s source of frustration is not how traumatized Himeko is, nor is he concerned about how to help Himeko recover. The only thing on his mind is how he can defeat the Orochi, how he can “protect Himeko” from the rival mecha. Similarly, before the final battle, Souma says to Himeko that he has to tell her something but cannot until the battle is over. More importantly, he says, “this time, I will not lose.” The primary source of joy is from victory in battle – the proof that he has the power (to protect Himeko), or to put it in clichéd terms, that he “is the man”!

Martial victory is not the only victory that Souma seeks. Rewind to ep. 1, the scene where Souma, like a typical protagonist in a romantic comedy, browses through the “dating guidelines” from various boys’ magazines. The handsome brother with a resonating voice comes and tells Souma to “be himself.” But this advice has been wholesomely ignored ever since it’s been said.

Souma plays the chivalrous knight quite well in dealing with Himeko, sometimes it almost seems as if he is fighting a “battle,” vaguely reminiscent of Julien Sorel of The Red and the Black. Sure, he’s psychology is not explored nearly enough, but traces of anime dating logic is all over the place. When seeking shelter from the rain, Souma sneaks a peek of Himeko changing, but then immediately recalls the golden rules of dating, one of which says, “Thou shall not watch a girl changing,” and berates himself.

The most interesting thing happens afterwards. Souma suddenly realizes that the “perfect date” is not going to plan, that he is not playing up to the “knight in shining armor” and currently losing the battle of a good romance. So frustrated is he at not “winning” the dating game that he releases his anger on a nearby debris, much to Himeko’s surprise. He is not at all concerned about rejection from Himeko, only how well he is performing up to the popular standards of what a good date and a good boyfriend should be.

The most medieval part is of course when he requests an audience with his lady before he embarks on a quest to win her favor, in other words, before his battle with Tsubasa. What does he intend to accomplish by seeing Himeko then and there? Does he plan to lose and that is his last farewell? Of course not, he is the hot-headed mecha-pilot after all. He is, whether conscious of it or not, playing the knight who shall return victorious and pleads that it is his lady’s handkerchief which gave him the strength to defeat the dragon, or giant or Muslim “infidels,” or whatever. That’s not to say that he has absolutely no feelings for Himeko, but I feel that he is not “being himself”, as Kazuki suggested, but still following the advices from those magazines.

Souma’s fear is not rejection, for why would a “selfless” love fear rejection when it doesn’t require “acceptance” to work? The only thing Souma fears is underperformance.

Two scenes also put Souma’s firm resolve to protect Himeko as self-directed actions. In a flashback, a young Souma tells a young Himeko that if she’s not comfortable in her presumably uncle’s house, then she should come to Souma and he would protect her. In the final episodes, Souma says to Tsubasa that they are both operating under the same principle. Because of his tragic childhood and broken family, the young Souma is trying to protect others, namely Himeko, from a tragic childhood and broken family as well. He is, in a sense, trying to live up to his older brother, whom protected him with his own life.

Looking at things this way, Himeko is just an object for both Chikane and Souma to satisfy their own egos, for them both to make peace with themselves and find resolutions to their own heartaches and problems. I would just like to say, finally, that this is not a post “bashing” either Souma or Chikane. Characters with strengths and flaws are better than characters without them. Cynical people say that all love is ultimately self-directed, and well, I’m not sure if I’m a cynic yet.

DeuceTrick
2005-01-01, 03:21
Very through analysis. Either you are a very perceptive person, or you have far too much time on your hands. :)

I'm a little simpler about it: Both Souma and Chikane love Himeko. Souma feels his love either is or has a chance of being requited, so he does the hero thing. Chikane feels her love can never be requited, so she chooses to die and ultimately save Himeko, rather than to live in agony. Arguing about atonement and gender roles just makes things so... complex.

dreamless
2005-01-01, 03:56
I resent that. I’m as much a “yuri fanboy” as an elephant is Mickey Mouse.

Okay, in order to not be a "yuri fanboy," let's put things in perspective and add Chikane in there as well. Is Souma's "love" for Himeko true or is he simply playing according to the laws of medieval chivalry to satisfy his own ego? Is Chikane truly in love with Himeko or is she so haunted by the guilt of her past life that she seeks release in atonement in the worst possible way? I won't even try to define what "love" is, maybe love is playing along with the rules of what love is supposed to be, e.g. La Traviata followed by a nice dinner in a fancy restaurant; or maybe it is a relief for the burden of past deeds regretted, e.g. because I have never had a university education I’ll make sure my children all get doctoral degrees.

Enter Chikane. Why would someone like Chikane befriend somebody as ordinary as Himeko if not because of the partially buried feelings of a past life? Even though they are barely on friendly terms (in Ep. 1, Himeko still starts by addressing her as “Miya-sama”), she already feels, although quite subconsciously, that the coming birthday would be “a special day” because Himeko would be there. Before the hilarious ending of ep. 1, the first thing that Chikane discovers on Himeko’s body is the mark of the Sun Priestess (although she herself has known about the mark on her body long before). It’s just as likely that seeing the mark triggered something that was not in the present-day Chikane’s mind. (Seeing how Chikane has been unconsciously guided by her past life to ruin the summoning ritual, this is not unlikely that her affection is deeply embedded by her past life as well.) Equally likely, Chikane and Himeko’s encounter in the school garden may be predestined by wills of the past, similar to Ep. 13.

Similarly, after Chikane’s Orochi-fication, her actions are geared simply towards a death by Himeko’s hands. To this end, she is not afraid to do terrible things to everybody, including Himeko. She does not have Himeko’s well-being in mind when she toyed and tortured her both physically and psychologically. Of course an argument could be made that everything would be “restored” once Chikane dies, but would somebody who truly loves a person want to hurt that person, so long as s/he could get away with it? The only possible solution is that Chikane, from that moment of recalling her entire past, has been obsessed by the idea of atonement, specifically, to die by Himeko’s hand. Everything she does from that point is intended only to relieve her own ego of the burdens of guilt.

Prior to the event that leads to Chikane’s sudden metamorphosis, the only factor that contributes to her dislike for Souma is her inability (in comparison to his overwhelming success) to protect Himeko. Throughout the entire series, Himeko is a person, or shall we say, an object to be protected, more or less specifically by Chikane and Souma. Yet, how happy the two are is directly related to how well they can protect Himeko, not how happy or safe Himeko is. This is most apparent in the extremely jealous and possessive Chikane, but it has its traces on Souma as well.

After that “dark and stormy night,” Souma’s source of frustration is not how traumatized Himeko is, nor is he concerned about how to help Himeko recover. The only thing on his mind is how he can defeat the Orochi, how he can “protect Himeko” from the rival mecha. Similarly, before the final battle, Souma says to Himeko that he has to tell her something but cannot until the battle is over. More importantly, he says, “this time, I will not lose.” The primary source of joy is from victory in battle – the proof that he has the power (to protect Himeko), or to put it in clichéd terms, that he “is the man”!

Martial victory is not the only victory that Souma seeks. Rewind to ep. 1, the scene where Souma, like a typical protagonist in a romantic comedy, browses through the “dating guidelines” from various boys’ magazines. The handsome brother with a resonating voice comes and tells Souma to “be himself.” But this advice has been wholesomely ignored ever since it’s been said.

Souma plays the chivalrous knight quite well in dealing with Himeko, sometimes it almost seems as if he is fighting a “battle,” vaguely reminiscent of Julien Sorel of The Red and the Black. Sure, he’s psychology is not explored nearly enough, but traces of anime dating logic is all over the place. When seeking shelter from the rain, Souma sneaks a peek of Himeko changing, but then immediately recalls the golden rules of dating, one of which says, “Thou shall not watch a girl changing,” and berates himself.

The most interesting thing happens afterwards. Souma suddenly realizes that the “perfect date” is not going to plan, that he is not playing up to the “knight in shining armor” and currently losing the battle of a good romance. So frustrated is he at not “winning” the dating game that he releases his anger on a nearby debris, much to Himeko’s surprise. He is not at all concerned about rejection from Himeko, only how well he is performing up to the popular standards of what a good date and a good boyfriend should be.

The most medieval part is of course when he requests an audience with his lady before he embarks on a quest to win her favor, in other words, before his battle with Tsubasa. What does he intend to accomplish by seeing Himeko then and there? Does he plan to lose and that is his last farewell? Of course not, he is the hot-headed mecha-pilot after all. He is, whether conscious of it or not, playing the knight who shall return victorious and pleads that it is his lady’s handkerchief which gave him the strength to defeat the dragon, or giant or Muslim “infidels,” or whatever. That’s not to say that he has absolutely no feelings for Himeko, but I feel that he is not “being himself”, as Kazuki suggested, but still following the advices from those magazines.

Souma’s fear is not rejection, for why would a “selfless” love fear rejection when it doesn’t require “acceptance” to work? The only thing Souma fears is underperformance.

Two scenes also put Souma’s firm resolve to protect Himeko as self-directed actions. In a flashback, a young Souma tells a young Himeko that if she’s not comfortable in her presumably uncle’s house, then she should come to Souma and he would protect her. In the final episodes, Souma says to Tsubasa that they are both operating under the same principle. Because of his tragic childhood and broken family, the young Souma is trying to protect others, namely Himeko, from a tragic childhood and broken family as well. He is, in a sense, trying to live up to his older brother, whom protected him with his own life.

Looking at things this way, Himeko is just an object for both Chikane and Souma to satisfy their own egos, for them both to make peace with themselves and find resolutions to their own heartaches and problems. I would just like to say, finally, that this is not a post “bashing” either Souma or Chikane. Characters with strengths and flaws are better than characters without them. Cynical people say that all love is ultimately self-directed, and well, I’m not sure if I’m a cynic yet.
Heh, almost every shounen anime male protagonist play the chivalrous knight in shining armor role to their love interest, and feel frustrated when they, umm, "underperform". See Flame of Recca, 3x3 EYES, Saint Seiya, Berserk, etc. etc. And my point is exactly that Souma is the perfect shounen anime kind of a male protagonist. So your detailed analysis proves exactly my point. Next maybe you should try analyse the "love" between Recca and Yanagi of Flame of Recca, and Yakumo and Pai of 3X3 EYES... :heh:

oh, and my yuri fanboy comment was not specifically directed at anyone, just to make it clear.

The Yellow Dwarf
2005-01-01, 04:02
Very through analysis. Either you are a very perceptive person, or you have far too much time on your hands. :)
The latter, I assure you. :) My "analysis" is skin-deep and there are plenty of counter-examples for alternate views. Yours, for example. (I only thought it up as a response to Sophie's post after all; and, to be honest, there are holes all over. ) :heh:

I'm not anti-Souma or anything. Chikane is far from a flawless character, but Souma is somehow made out to be like Buddha or something. I've nothing against heroes in the shounen action tradition, but where does "duty" end and "love" begin? (Okay, maybe I do have something against those elitest careerist tunnel-vision hero types, but not much.) Oh, great....now that's one pandora's box.


Heh, almost every shounen anime male protagonist play the chivalrous knight in shining armor role to their love interest, and feel frustrated when they, umm, "underperform". See Flame of Recca, 3x3 EYES, Berserk, etc. etc. And my point is exactly that Souma is the perfect shounen anime kind of a male protagonist. So your detailed analysis proves exactly my point. Next maybe you should try analyse the "love" between Recca and Yanagi of Flame of Recca, and Yakumo and Pai of 3X3 EYES... :heh:
Don't get me started on that...

Oh, sorry I misunderstood you. I thought you meant Souma is the perfect hero, which is why his love cannot be anything but the most pure, unadulterated, and selfless. My bad. :stupid:

dreamless
2005-01-01, 04:29
Don't get me started on that...

Oh, sorry I misunderstood you. I thought you meant Souma is the perfect hero, which is why his love cannot be anything but the most pure, unadulterated, and selfless. My bad. :stupid:
well, whether that "love" between the male and female protagonists of a shounen anime can be called "most pure, unadulterated, and selfless", IMO that's mostly a subjective, and semantical, matter, which depends on how different people interpret the meaning of "love", "pure love", "unadulterated love", and "selfless love". Although I'm not one of them, I think a lot of people like to call those "love" in shounen action anime "most pure, unadulterated and selfless love", it's all semantics I guess :uhoh:

Mentar
2005-01-01, 09:05
Whoah. That one was long. And good! Some extra sidecomments on those points where I'd like to disagree ;) ... to start with the ending:

Looking at things this way, Himeko is just an object for both Chikane and Souma to satisfy their own egos, for them both to make peace with themselves and find resolutions to their own heartaches and problems. I would just like to say, finally, that this is not a post “bashing” either Souma or Chikane. Characters with strengths and flaws are better than characters without them. Cynical people say that all love is ultimately self-directed, and well, I’m not sure if I’m a cynic yet.

At least your conclusions are very cynical. And while I'd say you've made a compelling case for Souma trying to play the _role_ of the chivalrous knight, I would not see this as mutually exclusive with _really_ genuinely loving Himeko. And on Chikane, I personally think that you're off, at least in your wording. "Ego" is the wrong term to describe her motivation.

I won't even try to define what "love" is, maybe love is playing along with the rules of what love is supposed to be, e.g. La Traviata followed by a nice dinner in a fancy restaurant; or maybe it is a relief for the burden of past deeds regretted, e.g. because I have never had a university education I’ll make sure my children all get doctoral degrees.

Well, it's convenient to skip it, since it's making your position easier to defend, but it's dangerous in the end. Since you come to the final conclusion that the driving force behind Souma and Chikane is ego instead of love, this omission is a bit problematic.

Even though they are barely on friendly terms (in Ep. 1, Himeko still starts by addressing her as “Miya-sama”), she already feels, although quite subconsciously, that the coming birthday would be “a special day” because Himeko would be there.

Minor sidenote: Himeko starts with "Chikane-chan" in episode 6. Episode 1 is obviously after their meeting in 6, because in this scene Chikane invited Himeko in the rose garden where they first met.

Similarly, after Chikane’s Orochi-fication, her actions are geared simply towards a death by Himeko’s hands. To this end, she is not afraid to do terrible things to everybody, including Himeko. She does not have Himeko’s well-being in mind when she toyed and tortured her both physically and psychologically.

She did! At least if we accept her explanation in ep12, which is that she NEEDED to make Himeko hate her, and I see no reason why we shouldn't. What other motivation could she have had to act like this?

Of course an argument could be made that everything would be “restored” once Chikane dies, but would somebody who truly loves a person want to hurt that person, so long as s/he could get away with it? The only possible solution is that Chikane, from that moment of recalling her entire past, has been obsessed by the idea of atonement, specifically, to die by Himeko’s hand. Everything she does from that point is intended only to relieve her own ego of the burdens of guilt.

This is illogical. If you want to atone for sins of the past, you do not go on a rampage to sin even MORE! If she just wanted to get rid of her burden of guilt, she would NOT make it even worse. But I guess that this may not be what you wanted to say and that you're rather agreeing with me on this:

I think the reason Chikane gave makes much more sense: In order to be ABLE to atone, she had to make Himeko hate (and kill) her. It was REQUIRED to do so in order to save Himeko and die in her place. And in addition to that, I see no reason why love and care for Himeko's well-being and the wish to let HER live this time should not be important motivation factors too.

Throughout the entire series, Himeko is a person, or shall we say, an object to be protected, more or less specifically by Chikane and Souma. Yet, how happy the two are is directly related to how well they can protect Himeko, not how happy or safe Himeko is.

No. This may be true for Souma, but not for Chikane. Chikane's happiness is related to how close she can be to her "sun". She is happy when Himeko comes back crying to her arms after the first Souma date to be hugged and comforted by her ("she's coming to me"), and she is crying when Himeko comes back from the second date musing that maybe Souma is the one she's looking for after all ("I'm losing her"). And in neither scene she had to be "protected".

[Lots of convincing stuff about Souma deleted - I agree here. Good observation.]

So what remains is the "ego" issue. I sincerely doubt that this concept applies to Chikane. If it was just for her ego, she should have been happy after returning the hairclip. Her plan succeeded, the world is saved by her death, Himeko lives this time. She should have found some form of happiness or serenity in this. But when Himeko pried on and insisted on hearing the rest of the story Chikane wanted tell (her attraction to her), she crumbled in no time. And when Himeko started to explain to Chikane that her love _was_ requited after all, Chikane literally fell apart. That wasn't fake. Concerning Himeko Chikane didn't have any ego remaining at all, she was a wreck. And the coup de grace was not that Himeko "forgave" her for killing her in the past, it was Himeko's explanation why she _really_ loved Chikane too. Sealing it with a returned "Happy Birthday" kiss (I love you too) from episode 1 was a nice touch.

To sum it up, the question is the good old "cui bono" ("to whose benefit"). Your cynical answer is "for themselves, for their ego". I think that's way too harsh. I'd rather say it was for Himeko ASWELL, who _both_ loved. As a cynic, you should also be able to agree that the world is grey, not black and white. I don't think we should paint over the white aspects here ;)

The Yellow Dwarf
2005-01-01, 16:06
At least your conclusions are very cynical. And while I'd say you've made a compelling case for Souma trying to play the _role_ of the chivalrous knight, I would not see this as mutually exclusive with _really_ genuinely loving Himeko. And on Chikane, I personally think that you're off, at least in your wording. "Ego" is the wrong term to describe her motivation.
[...]
Well, it's convenient to skip it, since it's making your position easier to defend, but it's dangerous in the end. Since you come to the final conclusion that the driving force behind Souma and Chikane is ego instead of love, this omission is a bit problematic.
I really don't feel like discussing what love is and isn't. My conclusion was that they were both using Himeko for their own emotional and/or psychological needs irrespective of Himeko's well-being, or at the very least, less concerned about Himeko's well-being than their own. Maybe that is what love is, I dunno. I have no idea what love is, but maybe Freud and his disciples have a lot more to say about that. The conclusion is a little shaky, I agree. Mainly because there are more than one facets to why the two want Himeko.

Minor sidenote: Himeko starts with "Chikane-chan" in episode 6. Episode 1 is obviously after their meeting in 6, because in this scene Chikane invited Himeko in the rose garden where they first met.
Yes, and that's before she found out about "Miya-sama," which probably speaks more about how little they know of each other at Ep. 1. We could intepret it as a love at first sight in the tradition of R&J but the intepretation that it's an influence from Chikane's past is not so far-fetched either, IMNSHO.

Chikane's happiness is related to how close she can be to her "sun". She is happy when Himeko comes back crying to her arms after the first Souma date to be hugged and comforted by her ("she's coming to me"), and she is crying when Himeko comes back from the second date musing that maybe Souma is the one she's looking for after all ("I'm losing her"). [...]
If you want to atone for sins of the past, you do not go on a rampage to sin even MORE! If she just wanted to get rid of her burden of guilt, she would NOT make it even worse. But I guess that this may not be what you wanted to say and that you're rather agreeing with me on this:
[...]
I think the reason Chikane gave makes much more sense: In order to be ABLE to atone, she had to make Himeko hate (and kill) her.
And I thought the jury already closed the book on Chikane already. :heh:
Well, there are a lot more aspects to the Chikane-Himeko relationship. IMO there are three major points: her seemingly uncontrollable lust, her ability to protect Himeko (or the lack thereof), and the guilt of the past life.

Her lust is the primary driving force for her desire to be close to Himeko, and the much the cause of her passive-aggressive stance. She wants to be close to Himeko, sure, but it's a lot closer than just "being together." :heh:

Well, as for the atonement part, the issue is kind of, well, stupid. Because there are only two Miko, you have to kill one or the other. So it's kind of impossible to argue whether she's doing it for Himeko or for herself. Your view makes sense, and it puts Chikane in a much better light. But that seems to contradict the series of events in which Chikane becomes part of the Orochi, and perhaps the most favored by Orochi.

Souma's condition aside (I already explained my stance that Orochi's influence on Souma is almost entirely alien), not just anybody can become part of the Orochi, (at least that's my opinion). The other five Orochi heads' suffering are, AFAWK, induced by external factors for which they have no control. But Tsubasa and Chikane (past) have one thing in common: their sufferings are mostly wrought by their own doings. They are both the assailants and the victims, their crimes and their pains are the same. That is why they cannot find salvation within themselves, and the reason they are the two strongest of the Orochi: their rage is not directed towards others (as is the case for the other five Orochi heads), but towards themselves.

The only way Chikane can find peace is for her to die by Himeko's hands, this semi-revenge on herself is the source of her "purple power" and the drive behind her actions. It is true that the aspect of saving Himeko's life and destroying herself are intertwined (there are only two Miko after all), but if her intentions are predominantly selfless, then that cannot, IMO, adequately explain where she gets her Orochi power.

And the coup de grace was not that Himeko "forgave" her for killing her in the past, it was Himeko's explanation why she _really_ loved Chikane too.
[...]
To sum it up, the question is the good old "cui bono" ("to whose benefit"). Your cynical answer is "for themselves, for their ego". I think that's way too harsh. I'd rather say it was for Himeko ASWELL, who _both_ loved.
Hmm... I sort of agree, and sort of don't agree. IMHO the "coup de grace," as you put it, is not that Himeko professes her love for Chikane, but that Himeko loves Chikane despite the fact that Chikane killed her last time. The one obstacle that Chikane cannot overcome is how she can still be loved with what she had done in the past, but Himeko did not only forgive her, Himeko absolved her from her crime and her guilt.

It is true that by the end, Chikane totally fell apart. However, I think the most part of it all is that Himeko said that Chikane is neither an angel nor a devil, implying that Chikane doesn't need to always be the strongest, to always be the one protecting Himeko, nor was her past deed something abominable that she must be punished. Chikane crumbled because two things which she considered, up to that point, two defining characters of herself, fell apart under Himeko's words. All there left is lust.

I'm not sure if that's harsh to say that they're both doing it for themselves... Or rather, I'm not sure if doing it for themselves is unquestionable bad. There are self-serving and selfless parts to both Souma and Chikane, I just feel that the former overshadows the latter. (The same applies to Himeko, but I'm tired.)

dreamless
2005-01-01, 16:18
well, I agree about the guilt part, that's why Chikane could not summon Ama no Murakumo at first, the guilt of her past life affected her, it's because of guilt from her past life, not of the current Chikane.

And yup Chikane must have some great darkness inside herself to have all the Orochi power that can defeat even Tsubasa, and practically take the true Orochi power into herself. Orochi is the personification of darkness inside human hearts, after all. If all Chikane had were pure love and positive emotions then it should be impossible for her to take in Orochi power. It's not like you can have great darkness and negative emotions in your heart just because it's required to do so. Human emotions should not be rationally manipulatable, it's not like you can hate someone just because you are required to hate someone, or you can be sad just because you are required to be sad. Maybe a good guy can pretend to be evil, but that doesn't mean he'll really have darkness inside his heart.

Mentar
2005-01-01, 17:29
Her lust is the primary driving force for her desire to be close to Himeko, and the much the cause of her passive-aggressive stance. She wants to be close to Himeko, sure, but it's a lot closer than just "being together." :heh:

We're getting a bit personal here, and feel free to tell me to take a hike, but have you ever really been in love? Because I don't think that if you are, you can separate the "lust" aspect from the "love" this easily. You seem to make a clear distinction here which I didn't experience in my own life before. Lust is a natural part of love. Unless of course you want to argue here that Chikane just had the hots for Himeko's worldly goods, but no interest in her other than this. I doubt that you seriously mean that.

Well, as for the atonement part, the issue is kind of, well, stupid. Because there are only two Miko, you have to kill one or the other. So it's kind of impossible to argue whether she's doing it for Himeko or for herself. Your view makes sense, and it puts Chikane in a much better light. But that seems to contradict the series of events in which Chikane becomes part of the Orochi, and perhaps the most favored by Orochi.

Aaaah, the "she's been so evil towards Himeko, so she must have been evil in the first place, otherwise she couldn't have become so powerful" logic. I can only turn this argument around: If she was predominantly evil, how did she manage to keep herself under control until Himeko killed her? I don't argue against the fact that her guilt complex and if you want her jealousy and lust arguably gave her a good headstart in her villain career, but the question is (to me) which part of her was the predominant one.

Only one explanation makes sense at all: It was her good side. That's what the anime told us at least. Otherwise she could have killed Himeko any time she wanted. I see no reason trying to argue against the obvious.

The only way Chikane can find peace is for her to die by Himeko's hands, this semi-revenge on herself is the source of her "purple power" and the drive behind her actions. It is true that the aspect of saving Himeko's life and destroying herself are intertwined (there are only two Miko after all), but if her intentions are predominantly selfless, then that cannot, IMO, adequately explain where she gets her Orochi power.

Now what? As I outlined above, you can't have it both. If you suddenly promote the theory that Chikane was predominantly evil after all, her goal to rescue Himeko this time to be killed in her stead is making no sense at all. If all she was seeking was selfish salvation from her guilt, she could have committed suicide and that's it. Why this silly charade trying to get Himeko to do this for her?

No, if you define "atonement" as the driving motivation, you're locked in to the "good" Chikane. Only the "good" Chikane would see a necessity to atone for anything. And if you look at the anime pictures of a crying "past" Chikane over the dying "past" Himeko, it makes any argument AGAINST a genuine love between them very far out to me.

My interpretation is much more simple and straightforward. Chikane genuinely loves Himeko - and is doing this for her sake. This does NOT mean that part of can't also be for herself, but only part of it. And she's been utilizing her own hurt, pain and jealousy to become a powerful Orochi. However, her "good" side always dominated and kept her in check, so that she was able to push Himeko to the edge (where she needed her in order to get her to kill her at all - which is totally against Himeko's nature), but not over it.

Hmm... I sort of agree, and sort of don't agree. IMHO the "coup de grace," as you put it, is not that Himeko professes her love for Chikane, but that Himeko loves Chikane despite the fact that Chikane killed her last time. The one obstacle that Chikane cannot overcome is how she can still be loved with what she had done in the past, but Himeko did not only forgive her, Himeko absolved her from her crime and her guilt.

That's correct, but only the part of it. Rewatch the episode if you don't believe me. This explanation of yours only lasted until Himeko took Chikane's face and kissed her for the first time. Which was a very classy way of her to say "I love you. Now shut up and listen to me" ;)

What made Chikane _really_ crumble in the end was Himeko's ability to explain to Chikane that "her" love was the same as Chikane's. Himeko couldn't care less about Chikane killing her in her former life. What's important to her is getting Chikane to believe her. Also, it was more of an apology to Chikane that she had not realized what hardship she had put on her in the past, and that she wanted to be there for her from now on from the bottom of her heart. It wasn't a "I really forgive you" but a "Forgive me for making you suffer before, I do love you" instead.

Again, post-kiss Chikane's guilt was totally irrelevant. Watch the episode.

It is true that by the end, Chikane totally fell apart. However, I think the most part of it all is that Himeko said that Chikane is neither an angel nor a devil, implying that Chikane doesn't need to always be the strongest, to always be the one protecting Himeko, nor was her past deed something abominable that she must be punished. Chikane crumbled because two things which she considered, up to that point, two defining characters of herself, fell apart under Himeko's words. All there left is lust.

You and your lust :) ... after the confession all kissing and cuddling was initiated by Himeko. If lust was such a driving factor, why did Chikane not act on it when she was finally allowed to? Sorry, we have to agree to disagree here. Lust doesn't cut the mustard.

I'm not sure if that's harsh to say that they're both doing it for themselves... Or rather, I'm not sure if doing it for themselves is unquestionable bad. There are self-serving and selfless parts to both Souma and Chikane, I just feel that the former overshadows the latter. (The same applies to Himeko, but I'm tired.)

To sum up: I don't see where your insistence of "doing it for themselves" is reflected in the anime. We agree on many accounts (most importantly that Chikane was haunted by her guilt), but I see no indication which would indicate that her motivations were JUST or at least predominantly selfish. Instead, for me there are clear signs that Chikane felt genuine love for Himeko, and that her decision to be killed in her stead was also FOR Himeko. _Of course_. Anything else feels highly artificial to me.

dreamless
2005-01-01, 18:40
Aaaah, the "she's been so evil towards Himeko, so she must have been evil in the first place, otherwise she couldn't have become so powerful" logic. I can only turn this argument around: If she was predominantly evil, how did she manage to keep herself under control until Himeko killed her? I don't argue against the fact that her guilt complex and if you want her jealousy and lust arguably gave her a good headstart in her villain career, but the question is (to me) which part of her was the predominant one.

Only one explanation makes sense at all: It was her good side. That's what the anime told us at least. Otherwise she could have killed Himeko any time she wanted. I see no reason trying to argue against the obvious.
Well, maybe it's not "evil", but "darkness", so her "good side" is predominant over her "evil side", but her "dark side" is also predominant over her "light side". And this is not contradictory, actually I think this might well be the only logical explanation. "dark side" is not necessarily "evil side". Things like "lust", "despair", "hatred", "selfishness", regret", etc. etc. can be counted as the "dark side", but not really the "evil side". however, the emotion of "love" should be the "light side"... or at least if we go by anime standards... at least I've never heard of any anime describing the emotion of "love" as a "dark side" emotion... actually "love" is mostly regarded as the brightest of the "light side" emotion.

So for Chikane to have so much "darkness" inside her heart that she can take all the Orochi power into herself, could that mean that her "dark side" emotions predominant over her "light side" emotions at that time? So her hatred (to the Orochis who sought to hurt Himeko, and maybe to Souma), lust (to be together be Himeko, to take Himeko just for herself), regret (to kill Himeko in her previous incarnation, and to rape Himeko), despair (not able to express her love to Himeko because she's a girl, have to give up Himeko to Souma), etc. etc. surpass her brighter emotions like love at that time?

Mentar
2005-01-01, 19:02
I suspect that we're at the edge of overanalyzing things - and most less zealous folks on these boards will probably think that we're already far beyond.

The only thing we know for sure is that until the very end - in full Orochi mode - Chikane was always able to stay her course. To push Himeko to hate her, needing drastic measures for that, yet never giving in to kill her (what Orochi desired). Therefore I interpret even her violating Himeko not as somehow giving in to her "evil" side or anything, but to execute a premediated plan which REQUIRED these actions in a very controlled manner. I think that anything happening between "I've decided, Himeko. I've decided." at the end of ep7 and timecode 5:45 in ep12 was part of her plan, her decision.

Is this the only possible interpretation? No, but it's the one I feel is most consistent. And also the most romantic ^_^ ... and thus the one most in synch with the "spirit" of this anime, IMO. It's fine if TYD and you come to different conclusions, I'm not saying that I'm necessarily right.

I just suspect that I'm getting the most satisfaction out of the story ^_^

dreamless
2005-01-01, 19:17
Therefore I interpret even her violating Himeko not as somehow giving in to her "evil" side or anything, but to execute a premediated plan which REQUIRED these actions in a very controlled manner.

Hmm... maybe coldly calculating things and executing the "required steps" perfectly without any interference from emotions can also be counted as something of the "dark side" I guess. Not "evil side", but "dark side". At least in anime standards, the "light side" would be "no matter how necessary, I'll never do those kind of things, because the end can never justify the means, so I'll work harder and harder and surely a miracle will happen if I work hard enough that even though I don't do the necessary things I'll still achieve the goal" :heh:

The Yellow Dwarf
2005-01-01, 19:41
We're getting a bit personal here, and feel free to tell me to take a hike, but have you ever really been in love? Because I don't think that if you are, you can separate the "lust" aspect from the "love" this easily. You seem to make a clear distinction here which I didn't experience in my own life before. Lust is a natural part of love. Unless of course you want to argue here that Chikane just had the hots for Himeko's worldly goods, but no interest in her other than this. I doubt that you seriously mean that.
Go take a hike! :D j/k No, I don't think I've been in love, maybe that's why my view on this is quite muddled. (It's also kinda hard if you don't know what love is.)

I was going to say, "there are three words I am not going to use: Love, Good and Evil." But then I did a search and I actually did use "love" a few times...so too late for that. So there are two words I am not going to use - Good and Evil, and one word I am not going to use seriously - Love.

I did not separate love from lust. I wasn't even talking about love. My feeling is that, there are so many different views on what Love is, and there are so many types of Love defined (paternal love, romantic love, sibling love, etc.) that it is not worth the time arguing about it. Lust, on the other hand, is simple and direct - the desire for another's body. (If there are significant divergent views on even this then I'm going to give up.)

So it's not that Chikane doesn't "love" Himeko, I wasn't even considering that as an issue. The three major components I listed are what I consider apparent without going into muddled discussion about what "Love" is.

Chikane is very, very attracted to Himeko physically. (Just look at Ep. 1!) Even a lot more than Yamibou's Hatsuki lusting after Eve. I don't think there's any way to deny this component. At the same time, there's the tired discussion about whether her desires are "perverted" or not, and that adds a bit of conflict in the show here and there (mostly with Miyako) but they're mostly clichéd and derivative, which can suitably explain why she would sometimes push Himeko onto Souma and immediately regrets it.

Aaaah, the "she's been so evil towards Himeko, so she must have been evil in the first place, otherwise she couldn't have become so powerful" logic. I can only turn this argument around: If she was predominantly evil, how did she manage to keep herself under control until Himeko killed her? I don't argue against the fact that her guilt complex and if you want her jealousy and lust arguably gave her a good headstart in her villain career, but the question is (to me) which part of her was the predominant one.

Only one explanation makes sense at all: It was her good side. That's what the anime told us at least. Otherwise she could have killed Himeko any time she wanted. I see no reason trying to argue against the obvious.
No Good, no Evil. I don't know what Orochi is, maybe it's Evil, maybe it's Chaos, maybe it's Destruction. The only thing I know is that all of the Orochi heads have suffered at the hands of society and they're out for revenge. My hypothesis is that their power comes from their will to destroy as a way of compensating for their losses in life.

But Tsubasa and Chikane are different. They suffer because of something they did, but what they did they did believing it was the right choice. What's done cannot be undone; the past deeds cannot be erased; the self is defined by the past; there's no salvation for those with their pasts. This is the cocoon that both Tsubasa and Chikane cannot escape from, and why they both sought the annihilation of their selves. The only salvation is the destruction of their own selves: destroy the self and there is no guilt, no sin, no past, no need for salvation.

This, IMO, is one of the factors that led Chikane to ally with Orochi - completely self-destructive. She sought annihilation of the self because there is no way out of the sins of the past but in the form of an assisted suicide, and her guilt can only be canceled by being killed by the one she killed, and this is the only method of atonement, or so she thought.

Also, it was more of an apology to Chikane that she had not realized what hardship she had put on her in the past, and that she wanted to be there for her from now on from the bottom of her heart. It wasn't a "I really forgive you" but a "Forgive me for making you suffer before, I do love you" instead.
I agree with that, but I'm still stuck on Himeko's words that Chikane is neither angel nor devil. Her point is that Chikane can show her feelings, she doesn't need to lock herself up anymore. There's no need for the Miya-sama persona anymore, and there's no need for the Orochi-girl persona anymore either. The two are, in cheesespeak, "together as one." In a way, two Chikane are killed at this moment. The "angel" who struggles with her impulses and the "devil" who's trapped in the sins of her past. That's why she broke down the way she did.

EDIT: To be honest, one of the reasons the show is so fun to analyze and to "bash" is that a lot of the times it's just so positively bad. I know I cannot watch the last episode more than 2 minutes at a time because I just have to burst out laughing if I stayed a little longer. So it's easy to keep a cool distance and pick at things here and there.

Pereii
2005-01-01, 22:28
I suspect that we're at the edge of overanalyzing things - and most less zealous folks on these boards will probably think that we're already far beyond.


Oh yeah...you guys are going wayyyy too deep in your observations. Not to say that's a bad thing though :) . But it'd be better to save the time and brain cells for animes that were/are actually created for the viewers to analyze. I highly doubt the producers of Kannamiko expect such deep analysis...or even discussions. Maybe during the series, but certainly not after. They've pretty much made a closure to the characters' relationships in the last episode. Now it's simply up to the viewers to either accept the explanations directly(which I think would be the best way...cmon, it's a crazy anime with the main goal being to offer some fanservice and yuri love for male otakus)...or dig into their dialogue and come up with some sort of hidden motive that the producers themselves probably didn't even know existed.

Seriously, I doubt they dissected each of their characters as far as we/you guys have. This isn't EVA or some other weird Gainax production, nor does it try to be. If it was, they wouldn't have closed up the ending the way they did...which was basically having Chikane spend the whole episode explaining everything, leaving virtually nothing else(well, nothing MAJOR concerning herself) unexplained. Of course, there's a bunch of WTF factors like Souma being able to revive from the curse with a slash of his bro's sword, Chikane's "short-lived punishment" in the moon shrine, Ame no Murakumo basically doing nothing in the last ep, and why God's such an idiot making no progress whatsoever in defeating Orochi, etc. etc.
But that just goes to show how much thought the producers, director, and script writer actually put into producing this whole series. Not that it wasn't fantastic; just not in the deep, logical way some of us seem to believe it is. Or else why are we trying to explain all these stuff to make it seem logical?

It's fun discussing...even more so when you get into all the "what ifs" and "maybes", but the more I think about it the more stupid I feel since I sincerely believe the anime was made to be taken directly. That's why I for one am just gonna straightforward stick with whatever explanations was given by the characters . :heh:


On another note, I heard that Kaishaku was pretty happy with the yuri ending which had been planned from the start of the production. He wrote it on some online blog of his. I also read somewhere that he mentioned there being a possiblity of a second season if the DVD sales are good. I think it was from Shounen Jump. Seriously though...a second season? No thanks, let's not ruin something already bordering on the line between "good anime" and "crap". :uhoh:


EDIT: Kaishaku's online diary: http://dog.oekakist.com/kaishaku/

dreamless
2005-01-01, 22:51
Hmm... Kaishaku? I heard after the anime ended, they replied to angry Souma fans on their bbs saying that "a true hero never asks for return", so I guess that's their official word on the Souma character, "a true hero"... so... again, Souma-kun, you are a good man... OTL

oh, and it seems there's a new manga from Kaishaku titled "The Cross Triangle", which is said to be basically about both Himeko and Chikane fall in love with Oogami... or something... :uhoh:
http://s05.imagehost.org/0618/cross_triangle_jpg.t.jpg (http://s05.imagehost.org/view.php?image=/0618/cross_triangle.jpg)

Sigurd
2005-01-02, 00:07
Hmm, despite that Himeko look-alike and Souma look-alike. It looks like one of Kaishaku's older works.

I ran some search and found that it was published in 2003. :hmm:

edit *forgot to tell that you almost gave me a heart-attack.*

Takemi_Ikazuchi
2005-01-02, 00:08
oh, and it seems there's a new manga from Kaishaku titled "The Cross Triangle", which is said to be basically about both Himeko and Chikane fall in love with Oogami... or something... :uhoh:

http://s05.imagehost.org/view.php?image=/0618/cross_triangle.jpg


That's one of their older series, but I guess you could say they recycled the character templates.

I could post the cover for their Chikane x Himeko doujinshi, but that would probably be against the TOS. :heh:

Takemi_Ikazuchi
2005-01-02, 00:12
message deleted.. this board really needs a delete function.

The Yellow Dwarf
2005-01-02, 00:25
Anya Zannin Gumi....sounds satanic. XD

Paean
2005-01-02, 10:06
Regardless of the main characters' true motivations, at least one thing is clear: Human love is quite imperfect, though it still has a great capacity to heal. (quoted from Dr. Harold Sala)

EDIT: Given all your arguments, though, I'm tempted to conclude that Souma and Chikane are more likely in love with Himeko, than actually loving her. There's a difference. Dr. Scott Peck mentioned something about the collapse of ego boundaries, and I believe it applies in both cases, though in a different way. It may seem that both Souma and Chikane have needs (real or perceived) that they think or feel are being met by acting toward Himeko in a certain way.

Don't you just love how these anime producers leave a lot of gray areas for viewers to explore, debate about, and generally get our minds mixed up over? :heh:

Maybe we're overananalyzing and reading too much into things, maybe not. The point for me is that the very fact the analyses exist at all implies that certain points in the anime were either not explained properly enough, or at least not to the satisfaction of certain fans. People really have a desire to know and confirm things. :)

ati
2005-01-02, 11:51
All of you have good opinions somehow I really need to know about Himeko and Chikane 's previous life ,I don't know in the past did they love each other , for Chikane I'msure she did but for Himeko ,Hi no Miko in the past did she love Tsuki no Miko or not ? coz I don't know what they talked after Tsuki no Miko killed Hi no Miko ,who can give me this answer?
Anyway about love and lust, I think we can not seperate it ,for me it should come together coz if you love someone as a lover ,it's sure that you must have lust, I don't believe if someone said just love no lust, if you have no lust it may not lover relationship so I 'm agree Chikane 's love has lust also but it doesn't mean her love is not love but it's just lust , Chikane love toward Himeko ,she didn't love Himeko as sister or friend and she 's not mom who love her child and I think Himeko's love must has lust too however I don't think lust is bad if you really love someone.
And the dark side of Chikane , I think she had dark side and despair within herself every people must have despair and dark side but that doesn't mean you are evil because you have that thing , for Chikane I agree she had it if not why she can become Orochi ,she may use this feeling to complete her purpose( I mean saving Himeko), her real desire never been come true even that she choose to save the one she love, compare with Souma , he did the same thing as Chikane did but I still think Chikane got hurt and pain more than Souma may be it's because of hurting someone you really love is more difficult than protecting your lover ( coz you usually have to do that) Chikane has guilty despair lust and mistake coz she is just human in the other way Souma may be Budha like you said ,he is too good no mistake and no dark side after all . And something I notice from all charecters , Chikane Souma and Tsubasa have one thing same , they did not control by Orochi's power however just only Chikane and Tsubasa that I think they are human ,those two are alike but they choose different way but it seem the real angle is Souma, he always choose to do good thing until the end, you know God in this show is more cruel than Souma ,I think he should be god instead ,may be he make this world full with happiness more than cruel god in this show. :heh:
By the way don't forget to tell me about Himeko and Chikane 's past that Hi no Miko love Tsuki no Miko or not.

Takemi_Ikazuchi
2005-01-02, 21:56
Ati, with all respect, please use the return key.

Paean
2005-01-03, 02:46
Hrm...I wonder. Was there any anime or manga that served as a prequel to Kannaduki? As in, did it chronicle events in the lover's past lives before this Orochi debacle?

ati
2005-01-03, 10:49
Ati, with all respect, please use the return key.

I'm really sorry ,my english is not good enough but I will try forgive me, next time will be better to improve it. :heh:

The Yellow Dwarf
2005-01-03, 13:26
I'm really sorry ,my english is not good enough but I will try forgive me, next time will be better to improve it. :heh:
This has nothing to do with English skills, it's just basic document formatting. Don't write in paragraphs with more than 5 sentences or 6 lines when writing materials meant to be viewed online, and leave ample space between paragraphs. It's easier on the eye. Just read your own post and you'll see.

Paean
2005-01-03, 18:46
I'm really sorry ,my english is not good enough but I will try forgive me, next time will be better to improve it. :heh:

Don't worry--your English is understandable and your points are worth thinking about. Just fix the formatting so we can appreciate your opinion even more. :)

chaos4ever
2005-01-04, 18:53
Though this is incredibly late in coming, I must admire you guys for your deep and thorough dissection of the whole series. Though I did notice some of the "abberations" in some of the storyline (eg. Chikane's non-Orochi-like behavior when she "turned"), I didn't really think about it much until I ran into this thread (and what a read it was.. 65 pages in 8 hrs.. )

Personally, and despite the hackneyed and repetitive themes and its unoriginality in some points, this series has become my favorite series out of all that I have seen just based on the emotional ride that this series provides, at least for me.

(Well, I guess I just tossed any credibility I've had to begin with into the trash compactor..)

Paean
2005-01-05, 07:49
Personally, and despite the hackneyed and repetitive themes and its unoriginality in some points, this series has become my favorite series out of all that I have seen just based on the emotional ride that this series provides, at least for me.

(Well, I guess I just tossed any credibility I've had to begin with into the trash compactor..)

Not at all! You're making perfect sense. One of the reasons why the discussion about this anime took up these many pages is that we're trying to find some semblance of reason in an otherwise emotional (i.e. angsty) anime. :heh:

Takemi_Ikazuchi
2005-01-05, 08:01
Re: Paean

Kannaduki's main inspiration is probably Yami to boushi to hon no tabibito.

In fact, I think the main reason why Kannaduki turned out as it did was because Kaishaku was disgruntled by Yamibou's ending.

fynefilo
2005-12-30, 23:19
Wow, I only just found out that the first DVD of Kannazuki no Miko is going to be released next year, April 25. I don't know how I missed that. Oh, well, it only makes the wait a few weeks shorter.
Anyways, it can be bought with or without an artbox and will have four episodes. So it'll probably be a three DVD release. Heh, it just had to stop at the infamous episode 8. And Geneon spelt it 'Kannazuki' instead of 'Kannaduki'. Here's the cover:
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1305/pd127157rn.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pd127157rn.jpg)

AtmaWeapon
2006-01-28, 17:29
OMG, i just watched the 1st episode just now. It was beyond amazing O_o

Oh man, it was so good, and it was only the 1st episode. What am i going to do?:uhoh:

btw/ Does this series have a particularly well known music director/composer? I found it remarkable....

Chiibi
2006-01-29, 17:08
Not a fan of yuri at all but I enjoyed this series. What attracted me to it was the art and the music (KOTOKO ROCKS!:D
However...
I HATED the ending because I wanted Souma to end up with Himeko. They were adorable together, their relationship had potential, and it was morally RIGHT. Yuri love is not right or pure or admirable, sorry. Neither is yuri rape by 100 times.
On the other hand, teh uber smexy Souma is free now. :D *snatches Souma and runs away with him. :D :D :D Don't worry cutie! I'll dress up as Himeko-chan for you and you can pretend I'm really her!!:heh:

But after reading this forum's multiple posts I am SO SICK of the Himeko bashing!:frustrated:
"Himeko's so whiny, Himeko's so stupid because she's blonde, Himeko's so weak!" ARGH, Enough already! Yes, she was weak at first but anyone with her situation WOULD be. And she isn't stupid; she's innocent. Because she's innocent, she wouldn't think of things like indecent love and that's why she didn't realize it for a while. She is also forgiving because she's THAT kind. So leave the poor girl alone, please! And how can you overlook her extreme cuteness!? I thought Himeko was one the most adorable anime girls ever (in how you think of a young child or puppy being adorable)

As for her being blonde well I'll say this: I F***-ING HATE blonde bashing/jokes/insults of any kind! Deciding on someone's intelligence from their freakin' HAIR COLOR is the most ignorant thing an idiot could ever think of and if that is how you see it, SHAME on you for being that stupid and discriminating.

Er....back to the series....there's one thing that baffles me:
If Himeko's virginity was actually taken, how was she able to summon the god? Was the rape unsuccessful? :confused:

pianocello
2006-01-29, 21:04
Yuri love is not right or pure or admirable, sorry.


Here we go again with another homophobic post.:mad:

Chiibi
2006-01-29, 22:17
Here we go again with another homophobic post.:mad:

I'm NOT homophobic. I'm stating facts. Everyone knows such relationships are not morally right. I am not criticizing anyone for watching it. For instance, I LOVE yaoi but that doesn't mean I think it's right. I KNOW it's wrong. But I still love it.:heh:

Korb
2006-01-30, 04:45
I'm NOT homophobic. I'm stating facts. Everyone knows such relationships are not morally right. I am not criticizing anyone for watching it. For instance, I LOVE yaoi but that doesn't mean I think it's right. I KNOW it's wrong. But I still love it.:heh:
No, you're stating your opinion. Morals are nothing but opinion. I happen to think there is nothing wrong with such a relationship between two men or two women, which right there disproves your rather broad declaration of "everybody" knowing something to be wrong.

NoSanninWa
2006-01-30, 05:18
Ethics are opinions. Morals are created by society. Many people confuse the two

At any rate, let's break up the discussion on the morality of homosexuality. I'd really not enjoy seeing it blossom in this thread. If someone already has a strong opinion on the subject, there isn't any way someone else can change their mind regardless of how brilliant their argument is. So let's not argue for the sake of arguing.

Chiibi
2006-01-30, 10:01
Hai, hai, sorry for that NoSanninWa-san.:heh:

Anyway does anyone have a theory for the Himeko question?

NoSanninWa
2006-01-30, 19:23
Anyway does anyone have a theory for the Himeko question?I'm afraid I can't answer with any certainty. It is quite the puzzler.

Perhaps because Himeko was unwilling, it didn't soil her purity. Perhaps because it was being done by one who loved her, it didn't soil her purity. Perhaps it doesn't count as losing her virginity if it was done by a girl. Perhaps the requirement for virginity was just a superstitous red herring that a priest lied about several centuries ago, to keep some miko from fooling around like a mink in heat.

Those are all possible answers and I don't know which is the truth, though I favor the last one.

AtmaWeapon
2006-01-30, 23:00
I had one dude lately tell me that kannazuki is a run of the mill mech anime with nothing interesting to say. Calimed i'd get bored after a few episodes.....

Would anyone agree with that?

I take very little of what he says seriously, i have virtually nothing in common with him:eyespin:

NoSanninWa
2006-01-31, 01:26
I had one dude lately tell me that kannazuki is a run of the mill mech anime with nothing interesting to say. Calimed i'd get bored after a few episodes.....

Would anyone agree with that?

I take very little of what he says seriously, i have virtually nothing in common with him:eyespin:
Oh goodness. He was totally messing with you! It has only a very little bit to do with the mecha and that part of the anime almost seems like a joke. This show was extremely unusual. It is primarily a relationship show. The mecha element seems almost satirical though it is sometimes used for dramatic effect.

I remember one scene where two people were busy dealing with their emotions while two mecha battled in the background. The mecha battle was being totally ignored by them while it was sending off fireworks over their heads.

Is that run of the mill?

Chiibi
2006-01-31, 09:58
Agreed, it's anything BUT run of the mill. o_O :heh: It's extremely original and bizarre and that's what made it so interesting.

Xellos-_^
2006-01-31, 10:50
Er....back to the series....there's one thing that baffles me:
If Himeko's virginity was actually taken, how was she able to summon the god? Was the rape unsuccessful? :confused:

Maybe because it is by another woman and she doesn't have the right equipment, it didn't count :eyebrow: :heh: :uhoh: :eyespin:

AtmaWeapon
2006-01-31, 15:09
I remember one scene where two people were busy dealing with their emotions while two mecha battled in the background. The mecha battle was being totally ignored by them while it was sending off fireworks over their heads.

Dude, that sounds cool. Thanks chiibi andNoSanninWa.

Like i said, i take nothing he says seriously. I trust that guy as far as i can throw him.

On that note, i'll go off to watch ep.3 ^^

Icehawk
2006-02-06, 21:33
Just finnished the series and am quite happy with it, especially the ending. :)

Much like I was with Gungrave, after watching the first episode I was a bit stunned.... They throw all this crazy shaz at you, and the random appearence of the gundam-esque superbots particularily irked me and made me fear for the series.... However, after watching the second episode I was hooked, the characters and their relationships were quite well done and I thank the creators for maintaining focus on those things.

AtmaWeapon
2006-02-16, 01:23
Wow, just finished the last 2 episodes just now. I am so happy with this anime. I got a little tired of it around ep.7 or so, but that's probably cause i was so busy with school recently. But, man, they did a really good job with the ending, no cheaping out or giving up in effort.
I also did watch the last bit of ep. 1(cause it has such dramatic flow and overall theme coherence mixed in the THE MOST KICK ASS SOUNDTRACK EVER that kicks in always at the best places) after completing this and it just made me so giddy.
One thing i liked alot about this one, is that all of the plot details fit in so well into an overall scheme. They dove-tail many details neatly, and alot of things make so much sense.

Definetly going to watch this series again down the road^^

Much like I was with Gungrave, after watching the first episode I was a bit stunned.... They throw all this crazy shaz at you, and the random appearence of the gundam-esque superbots particularily irked me and made me fear for the series.... However, after watching the second episode I was hooked, the characters and their relationships were quite well done and I thank the creators for maintaining focus on those things.
That is so odd. I was stunned after the 1st episode, but in the best possible way imaginable. It is by far the best 1st ep ever, in my opinion.

Nayuki
2006-02-16, 17:52
Two school girls who are really priestesses fight evil with and without mecha and fall in love.

blackwolf58
2006-04-29, 12:42
So, I finished watching this anime and really liked it. Are there any other animes that are similar to this one that people would recommend?

RedFrame
2006-04-29, 14:14
lol...i've never realized there is a thread about Kannazuki no miko here :heh:

Anyway i've completed watching this and at first i regret watching this and after giving it a few day thought then i realized its only ep 8 scene that are bothering me ( the ending is ok for me :) ) .This anime got a serious yuri problem...

After watching first ep my quick impression was, this anime realy cool,even in first ep the hero mech already burn that bad guy mech into crisp :cool: with mech fighting, behind there we see yuri scene(before i watch the ep 8 i realy think she is only giving himeko a cpr :p) and so on i kept watching innocently until i come across ep 8 scene....
chikane r#p$ himeko !!!
Overload of Yuri-ness jawdropping and petrifying(~moe~) and left me with WTF?! imigination (chikane doing that .... and that .....to himeko)

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6409/bscap0399eb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


the only thing that i can said is i swear i'm not going to watch yuri anime again..
that is if i can resist myself from watching it :heh:

Chiibi
2006-04-30, 15:00
lol...i've never realized there is a thread about Kannazuki no miko here :heh:
chikane r#p$ himeko !!!
Overload of Yuri-ness jawdropping and petrifying(~moe~) and left me with WTF?! imigination (chikane doing that .... and that .....to himeko)

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6409/bscap0399eb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


the only thing that i can said is i swear i'm not going to watch yuri anime again..
that is if i can resist myself from watching it :heh:

I hated that scene too, RedFrame, and that's why I'm opposed to
HimekoxChikane. You do NOT fall in love with your rapist.-_-

Mizkyu
2006-05-01, 03:20
I hated that scene too, RedFrame, and that's why I'm opposed to
HimekoxChikane. You do NOT fall in love with your rapist.-_-

Firstly, she was head-over-heels to begin with. And secondly... Stockholm Syndrome, anyone?

Chiibi
2006-05-01, 11:11
No, she liked Souma too. I do not think she was "head-over-heels" for anyone actually. And I think Chikane's "love" for Himeko is mostly lust anyway.

philip72
2006-05-01, 13:25
Did a small few of the commentators on this thread watch this show with the volume turned off or no subtitles? It seems that in recent posts a lot of you have a huge misunderstanding about a major plot point in this show.

Most of what I'm going to say has been already said at least a dozen times, but most of those comments are some pages back, so I will reiterate them now.

First of all, the rape scene, some of you are saying they didn't like that part. All I can say to you in this regard is Duh...
Nobody likes rape unless they're seriously messed up.
The writer didn't put this in the show to arouse us, but rather to make us angry, it wasn't there to titillate.
Chikane took in Orochi and assaulted Himeko purposely trying to get Himeko to hate Chikane enough to kill her as the sacrifice instead. In their previous incarnation Himeko was the sacrifice and Chikane was devastated about that, this time she wanted to ensure she was the sacrifice.
It did mess up Himeko a bit but was not completely effective because it was like being raped by your wife/husband. It would hurt you but you would still have feelings for that person.
Himeko and Chikane were always in love. This was not the first time they lived, they were in love with each other since their first life (In a sense as the Sun and the Moon, they were created for each other).
In all their previous lives however Souma was always their enemy, this is the first incarnation in which he was a potential suitor and friend.
That's why Himeko cried when Souma kissed her, even though she didn't remember the details of her last life she did have a suppressed memory of her feelings for Chikane. She had affection for Souma but her thoughts were always with Chikane.

LytHka
2006-05-01, 14:16
@iamandragon: Lucky for you, the first dvd has been released on cheap R1 DVD on april 25th. The collector's box edition goes on sale in a few days.

Chiibi
2006-05-02, 09:12
Did a small few of the commentators on this thread watch this show with the volume turned off or no subtitles? It seems that in recent posts a lot of you have a huge misunderstanding about a major plot point in this show.

Most of what I'm going to say has been already said at least a dozen times, but most of those comments are some pages back, so I will reiterate them now.

First of all, the rape scene, some of you are saying they didn't like that part. All I can say to you in this regard is Duh...
Nobody likes rape unless they're seriously messed up.
The writer didn't put this in the show to arouse us, but rather to make us angry, it wasn't there to titillate.
Chikane took in Orochi and assaulted Himeko purposely trying to get Himeko to hate Chikane enough to kill her as the sacrifice instead. In their previous incarnation Himeko was the sacrifice and Chikane was devastated about that, this time she wanted to ensure she was the sacrifice.
It did mess up Himeko a bit but was not completely effective because it was like being raped by your wife/husband. It would hurt you but you would still have feelings for that person.
Himeko and Chikane were always in love. This was not the first time they lived, they were in love with each other since their first life (In a sense as the Sun and the Moon, they were created for each other).
In all their previous lives however Souma was always their enemy, this is the first incarnation in which he was a potential suitor and friend.
That's why Himeko cried when Souma kissed her, even though she didn't remember the details of her last life she did have a suppressed memory of her feelings for Chikane. She had affection for Souma but her thoughts were always with Chikane.

Oh just ignore me, I am a bit biased since I'm a Souma fangirl.:heh: I just don't like Himeko and Chikane together because he ended up alone and I feel bad for him. Also, the whole thing feels a little "forced" to me and it sort of seems like they are put together just to make the fanboys happy.

I'm not completely against yuri though, in fact I supported the two girls in Loveless quite a bit. They were so devoted.

fynefilo
2006-05-18, 07:19
My DVD (w/ Collector's Box) arrived today. Yaay~!!

Anyway, I must say, the first episode in English had me cracking up laughing even harder than the first time in Japanese. Listening to Souma yelling and screaming at the end of the episode in English was absolutely hilarious. No fault on the English VA, of course. :heh: I thought that the dub was actually pretty okay, but I'm rather lenient (? more accurately would probably be ignorant...) with dubbing and whatnot, so don't take my word on it; buy the DVD for yourself. :D

Rider_from_stay_nigh
2006-05-21, 12:43
I seen the whole thing as well. It's pretty cool! ^_^

slayer
2006-05-25, 22:45
This anime was quiet cool indeed, it is different from what I'm used to so I am quiet surprised.

martino
2006-07-31, 17:00
Hmmm...did they hug/kiss at the very end in the middle of the road crossings or is it just my imagination???

Mephisto2k
2006-07-31, 17:06
I have seen this show but somehow I only liked the yuri/relationship aspect. All those mecha fights were rather bad animated or just plain bad.

martino
2006-08-01, 12:41
You are right. They could have left out the mechs and just simply make them fight with sword and other stuff in her human form and give them some powers. In my opinion I would have liked it more. And can anyone please answer my question:
"Did they hug/kiss at the very end in the middle of the road crossings or is it just my imagination???"

spudman
2006-08-02, 09:01
"Did they hug/kiss at the very end in the middle of the road crossings or is it just my imagination???"
Looked like a plain hug to me. According to the booklet with the R1 limited edition they simply 'embrace at the intersection'.

martino
2006-08-02, 11:51
Thanks...I take that as a good ending then :)

Lost
2006-11-14, 01:15
I watched the first episode of Kannaduki no Miko (and fell in love with the ED, which I'm replaying over and over at full blast) and I'm wondering if I should continue with this series, and devote my already limited time to it. I mean, aside from the yuri and questionable mecha; is there anything else going for this show?

Mentar
2006-11-14, 03:59
KannaMiko is actually a pretty good romance anime! As long as you know that you can safely fast-forward any single scene depicting mecha (and improve the quality of the anime dramatically this way), you're fine ;)

In fact, KannaMiko takes the cake for the most bizarre confession of love in episode 11, and one of the most romantic confessions in ep12. It also is noteworthy for one of the meanest last-episode EDs ever ^_^ ... SO evil!

Natsuki Kuga
2006-11-19, 11:46
Yup i agree tat kannaduki no miko is a veri nice show indeed. When i found out abt tat anime i watch de last episode and somehw, i ended up tears in my eyes. De story was kinna sad in de end but den, they still manage to be together....^_^

Deathkillz
2006-11-19, 18:19
ooh i forgot about this series...kinda put it on hold with 4 eps left...thankfully i was able to dig it back up...

here goes...the last ep...is one of the most emotional endings ive seen...reminds me of chrno crusade and KGNE...tbh i didnt expect anything like it...even as i type im wiping the drops of tears from my eyes...its soo beautifully done ^_^

this is one of those animes that rip your heart out, puts it in a blender and the funnel it back into the empty hole where your heart once was...

truly amazing...before the last 30secs i thought it was all tradgic but in the last 30secs i completely given in to my emotions...i still need time for it to sink in :) good god one of the best kisses ive ever seen!

Miya-Miya
2006-11-20, 13:39
Gosh, KnM is my fav anime :). I cant wait that i can download the Kannazuki no miko spin off to my computer<33
Yesterday i had to start to watch Kannami again, for me that series are those one, where you have to watch them again and again until you can understand da plot well ^^''...

martino
2006-11-20, 17:06
Just remove the mechas and I'll like it even more :)

Miya-Miya
2006-11-21, 10:01
Just remove the mechas and I'll like it even more :)

Exactly ^^

Lost
2006-11-21, 11:15
Woah, I lost track of this after Mentar's post. Hmm. Looks like I'll give it a try, then.

Cyz
2006-11-21, 11:26
The mechs kinda look like gundams :) But your right, they should've remove the mechs and just focus on Himeko x Chikane goodness :)

Yuelon
2006-11-25, 06:52
I would do anything if there a Himeko x Soma
I'm not saying Himeko x Chikane not a good story just that you watch the series, you know how hard that guy try >< i just feel sorry for him just a little.

martino
2006-11-25, 08:57
Have pity for the loser. lol

Deathkillz
2006-11-25, 10:23
lol well soma's relationship wasnt ment to be as Himeko x Chikane were destined to happen ;) but yea her gets a pat on the back for trying...too bad...even the end hates him :heh:

martino
2006-11-25, 16:37
I wonder if there was a place for a threesome :D

Chiibi
2006-11-25, 22:19
I would do anything if there a Himeko x Soma
I'm not saying Himeko x Chikane not a good story just that you watch the series, you know how hard that guy try >< i just feel sorry for him just a little.

ZOMG I KNOW! :mad: He really loved her! And he got nothing! NOTHING! *sob* The ending made me so emo.

I wonder if there was a place for a threesome :D

That's how it SHOULD've been.:mad:

Poor Souma.....:( I'D go out with him.:D

Yuelon
2006-11-29, 01:35
Have pity for the loser. lol

That's too harsh :mad:

ZOMG I KNOW! :mad: He really loved her! And he got nothing! NOTHING! *sob* The ending made me so emo.



That's how it SHOULD've been.:mad:

Poor Souma.....:( I'D go out with him.:D

Do you really mean it by going out?.....no?

The ending was unbearable to watch when the door close, after that I pause abit then continue, and if you watched after the credits you won't it a sad ending.
I REALLY got to complain about those ending putting after the credits!!!!

Chiibi
2006-12-02, 20:20
That's too harsh :mad:



Do you really mean it by going out?.....no?

The ending was unbearable to watch when the door close, after that I pause abit then continue, and if you watched after the credits you won't it a sad ending.
I REALLY got to complain about those ending putting after the credits!!!!

Yeah I meant it. xD Souma is SEXY.:D

Er no the ending was still emo for me because I heart HimekoxSouma.:(

Natsuki Kuga
2006-12-05, 04:58
I dunno if this is a continue series or a new edition. The Character look de same as Kannaduki no miko.

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2006/12/05/random-musings-kannazuki-no-miko-redux-edition/#comments

This anime will be release on 2007.

Click on de promo trailer to watch it too...

martino
2006-12-05, 14:56
I have no clue what it could be...

Perhaps a remake with an alternative ending (something for Souma)...?

Cyz
2006-12-05, 15:59
That's a different anime now set in a different universe. I don't think it's a remake or something of Kannazuki no Miko.

Natsuki Kuga
2006-12-06, 01:37
i hope this new anime will hv better endin ba...=)

Enerccio
2006-12-20, 09:21
Well, i love yuri so Kannazuki no Miko is great serie for me.
Then ending was very sad, i nearly cryed.
But after credits i feel relivied.

And also the manga is good and more ecchi than anime (rape scene and full frontal nudity ;) :p )

Yakumo Fan
2006-12-20, 17:43
Can anybody tell me from where to take kannaduki no miko manga. please help, my love for the anime can't be cured and now i totally want to read the manga.so help pls T-T

dojikyo
2006-12-22, 00:56
http://www.manganews.net/series.php?pg=2&alpha=K

The manga was okay but I liked the anime better. The anime spent more time fleshing out the characters. And it was more laughably bad. The last scene of the first episode of the anime combined with ending sequence combined into one really funny gag.

Tsuki-Miko-14
2007-01-21, 05:00
i have all the vol on my pc but im still want for chap 10
form Otenba

Shikimori Kazuki
2007-01-24, 20:17
Anyone have the image where it shows Chikane's expression when she saw Himeko at the end?

Apparently, i know is from an artbook and the link was broken ...yes...the link was in 2005 T__T. But I just want to confirm whether Chikane remembers Himeko or not thats all :)

Kipp
2007-01-24, 23:01
Anyone have the image where it shows Chikane's expression when she saw Himeko at the end?

Apparently, i know is from an artbook and the link was broken ...yes...the link was in 2005 T__T. But I just want to confirm whether Chikane remembers Himeko or not thats all :)

I think this is what you're talking about. I love this picture. When I saw the epilogue, I was a bit discouraged it didn't show Chikane's face. I wanted absolute, positive, flashing arrow type proof that it really was Chikane in the white dress. This picture eased my worries. ;)

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3597/1124038172673resize4kf.jpg

Shikimori Kazuki
2007-01-25, 00:21
^ Ah thanks, it solved my problem. Yes, sadly it didnt show the emotion/face when Chikane sees Himeko. However, the fact that Chikane is wearing the necklace shell represents the fact she remembers that there is someone whom she loves and is also waiting for her:). It ended quite nice with the symbolic item that each girl wears, shows that they still remember each other once they meet:D

Chiibi
2007-01-25, 11:51
There's a pic somewhere online that has them embracing and you can see both girls plain as day, if that helps. They're in the same outfits so I know...

Shikimori Kazuki
2007-01-25, 14:14
There's a pic somewhere online that has them embracing and you can see both girls plain as day, if that helps. They're in the same outfits so I know...

By any chance, do you mean this picture? http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2254/200505267vy.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=200505267vy.jpg) but from what i heard, this is a fanart ^_^. but is drawn really nice.

Kipp
2007-01-25, 20:29
By any chance, do you mean this picture? http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2254/200505267vy.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=200505267vy.jpg) but from what i heard, this is a fanart ^_^. but is drawn really nice.

Yeah, that's fanart. :) I was also happy Chikane had the shell necklace on. Their last line at the end though had the two of them saying that they'll fall in love together again. Whether or not Chikane remembers, it basically said they would be with one another again. I do feel that she remembered though. ;)

Kyanme
2007-01-26, 00:21
i have all the vol on my pc but im still want for chap 10
form Otenba

Oh, my... Tsuki-chan from Promises Kept? Hello there, it's the admin of many name changes. (Currently Kuu Shiartori. ^^') 8D I find it a little funny that I ran into so many of my friends here...

Anyways -- bad Kyaachii... not noting this topic! Kannadzuki no Miko is my all time favorite anime (ROFL. I almost typed 'all time favorite Chikane'...) even with it's many flaws! (Bad pacing, really, really bad mecha scenes.) It's always a tearjerker. >__>;; **has seen it fifteen times and cried each time** ^^;;

Kipp
2007-01-26, 00:47
(ROFL. I almost typed 'all time favorite Chikane'...)

Hahahaha. <3

Well I can certainly relate to that. ;) I agree with you though. Kannazuki no Miko is my favorite series. I had to break out the tissues during several occasions. I'm such a sap. Speaking of bad mecha...

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2996/shutupfx8.gif

Kyanme
2007-01-26, 01:10
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2996/shutupfx8.gif

... I love you. Please, marry me. D: That's, like, one of my favorite comic strips! (That I lost when I cleaned out my compter of my KannaMiko media. (Damn homophobic mother!) ;_; )

And on the subject of images:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1876/20050924mh0.gif

I think Mario would be in love, don't you? <.<

Kipp
2007-01-26, 18:02
... I love you. Please, marry me. D: That's, like, one of my favorite comic strips! (That I lost when I cleaned out my compter of my KannaMiko media. (Damn homophobic mother!) ;_; )

Ok! We'll have to keep it hush hush though. ;) The sucks you had to clean out everything cause of you mom. My mom doesn't know of my obsession with Kannazuki no Miko. I'm not sure how she would take it. ;)

And I've seen the mushroom gif before. :) I think it's cute. The mention of Mario though gave me bad mental images of him wanting to eat the mushroom like in the games, which then gave me bad ideas. :upset:

Deathkillz
2007-01-26, 19:23
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2996/shutupfx8.gif
awww thats too cute (^__^)
we need more kissing! :D
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7174/66dc2d1949cc933f749b564ur4.th.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=66dc2d1949cc933f749b564ur4.jpg) http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9535/339e75614bfea8654880086lb4.th.jpg (http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=339e75614bfea8654880086lb4.jpg) http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4687/ac93edad56968617d5e413ame0.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ac93edad56968617d5e413ame0.jpg) http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7204/b13d98e4de92525195f3dd3mv6.th.jpg (http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b13d98e4de92525195f3dd3mv6.jpg) http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/7818/02adb65ae6fdc1ac2cbb658yw0.th.jpg (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02adb65ae6fdc1ac2cbb658yw0.jpg)

Kipp
2007-01-26, 20:15
Wee, more pictures. ^^; I really like the last one you posted. I think it's adorable.

I found this to be extremely amusing. ;)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1047/007iu8.jpg Not a clue what's being said, but I think it's obvious Chikane is hitting up the security camera for some naked Himeko action. ;)

Kyanme
2007-01-27, 02:41
Ok! We'll have to keep it hush hush though. ;) The sucks you had to clean out everything cause of you mom. My mom doesn't know of my obsession with Kannazuki no Miko. I'm not sure how she would take it. ;)

And I've seen the mushroom gif before. :) I think it's cute. The mention of Mario though gave me bad mental images of him wanting to eat the mushroom like in the games, which then gave me bad ideas. :upset:

And now I have images of Fat Bastard from Austin Powers in my mind. "GET IN MY BELL-AY!" o_o;;

@ Deathkillz -- Those are more shoujo-ai than yuri, since the latter is more sexual. (I know too much for my age. :x) But they're cute! Feverent Idiot's art is <3.

As for the comic strip, I think Chikane and Otoha and Himeko are planning to tape, um. You know I should just shut up. XD

Himeko/Chikane/Otoha FTW. **shot**

MeganeShounen
2007-01-27, 06:11
Voyeur Chikane FTW. :D

After reading the manga and watching the anime, there was something bothering me besides the different endings.
Basing on both media: What's more painful, a sleek flute or a tanto (short sword) sheath? :heh:

Oh, and where's Maids!Maids!Maids! when you need an HQ image flood? ;)

Kipp
2007-01-27, 13:02
Himeko/Chikane/Otoha FTW.

Oh man, I hope you didn't mean the 3 of them together. :upset: Otoha's character is funny, but she needs to gtfo of Chikane's and Himeko's relationship. ;) I was happy when she got shipped off to take care of one of Chikane's family members. ^^;

Tsuki-Miko-14
2007-01-29, 23:31
Oh, my... Tsuki-chan from Promises Kept? Hello there, it's the admin of many name changes. (Currently Kuu Shiartori. ^^') 8D I find it a little funny that I ran into so many of my friends here...

Anyways -- bad Kyaachii... not noting this topic! Kannadzuki no Miko is my all time favorite anime (ROFL. I almost typed 'all time favorite Chikane'...) even with it's many flaws! (Bad pacing, really, really bad mecha scenes.) It's always a tearjerker. >__>;; **has seen it fifteen times and cried each time** ^^;;

i dont know u have account on here .
danm i find lot ppl that also have an account every where XD
like kipp form gaia.
i saw that show 10 time and im fix to watch it in english on youtube soo.
im in love with this show.in fact it was my first shoujo ai anime i ever watch

Bloodseeker
2007-02-03, 07:22
Rented the DVDs from netflix... I'll post my comments, just because I feel like it.

Before watching

-I hope that this is better than Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tabibito, which, aside from Ririsu's cuteness, was completely forgetable... I hear that KnM has a lot of drama, which usually means at least some semi-memorable character development, so I think that its safe to get my hopes up a little.

-I seem to be one of the few that think that Himeko is hotter than Chikane. (she needs to keep the glasses off, though)

Episode 1

-ARGH! Using "-sama" in a dub FTFF! Between that and Himeko sounding really awkward during that second scene, I'm about five bad lines from changing to Japanese with subtitles for a few episodes.
-"Our lunches together make me very happy!" Who talks like that? Chikane has a good VA, but I can already tell that this is going to be a very cheesy show in English. Besides, I can't stand hearing the word "-sama" in a dub. *switches*
-Damn, they're really rushing the beginning, aren't they? They didn't even show Himiko's and Chikane's first lunch together!
-Was that a sketch of Orochi?
-So that WAS a sketch of Orochi! Hopefully this one won't be wearing a bunch of silly Captain Crunch hats.
-The guy that was giving Himeko a ride's robot looks like a Gundam.
-RAEP TIME?!
-LOLz @ that guy fighting to impress a lesbian!
-The ED's slightly above average. Listenable, but not something that I'm going to listen to every episode.

Episode 2

-As if some stupid purification ritual is anyway to apologize or repent!
-You guy's should really start looking for a ritual to summon Ammy...
-I hate it when people knock and then enter without even waiting for a response.
-Mako's gay for Chikane?
-Himeko needs to stop crying.
-She apologizes for having a good friend? :confused:
-The Orochis all seem to be pretty likable. Its too bad that they're probably screwed.

Episode 3

-The OP sucks. Rave music FTF.
-They're not even allowed to chat while they're working? I'd hate to work at Chikane's house.
-Having a bunch of people standing around the table while I'm trying to eat would really get on my nerves.
-Himeko really doesn't strike me as the type of girl that would get bullied... :confused:
-What is it with anime characters and their tendency to tell their friends that injuries and other problems that were clearly and definitely caused by their incompetence weren't their fault? Its not that hard to console people without lying to them.
-Himeko really needs to do something about her weak mental and physical constitution...
-Such a happy-go-lucky little destroyer, nya! Priestess go boom! :D

Episode 4

-You know Chikane, if you got on her case for fainting and crying instead of just complementing her and/or telling her that its alright while otherwise keeping the love, she might just toughen up.
-Wow, tattle-telling on Himeko. You really showed her. Those girls fail at being bullies.
-*twinkie houses the guy that was abusing little Himeko*
-Dammit Himeko, quit flipping out! Chikane isn't going to do anything twinkie house-worthy! Not to you, at least.
-You don't wear a hat on a rollercoaster! That's just common sense!

Overall First Impressions

-Not boring, but not great either. I hear that this is one of those that pick up in the second half though, and I already have the second DVD, so I'll keep watching.
-As much as I want to, I'm having a hard time liking Himeko... She needs to stop crying over everything, fainting whenever something other than simple conversation happens, hating herself, and being weak in general. There hasn't been a single episode yet where she hasn't collapsed over something, and I don't think that there's been an episode where she doesn't cry. I'm guessing (and hoping) that she's going to toughen up before the series ends.
-I like the pop idol chick and the catgirl. Its going to be sad to watch them go...

Kipp
2007-02-04, 02:04
@Bloodseeker

Your review of the first couple episodes were amusing to read. ;) The series really does pick up in the second half. I also agree with you that Chikane's VA has a nice voice. (Japanese and English. Go Michelle Ruff! <3) I personally can't stand Himeko's english VA, but I really like her Japanese one. Anyway, I hope you'll find the rest of the series enjoyable. :)

Kaioshin Sama
2007-02-04, 02:34
What exactly is bad about the mecha scenes in this show. I seriously don't understand, they are well animated, hot blooded, have silly super robot attacks? Seriously what the hell?! There's mecha in it so deal with it. It's no use pretending they aren't there because your just lying to yourself. I may not like the Yuri aspects but they are there for everybody to see and I'm not denying it or saying it should be removed. Why do people object so completely without explaining what exactly is wrong here. Is there that much hatred for mecha in anime shows that people can't even except it sparingly. If that's the case, well better get used to it because that's the name of the game next month. Keep in mind the scenes are supposed to be corny as hell as it's the super robots doing the attacking. It's not meant to be serious I guarantee, it's melodrama plain and simple.

Bloodseeker
2007-02-04, 03:48
@Bloodseeker

Your review of the first couple episodes were amusing to read. ;) The series really does pick up in the second half. I also agree with you that Chikane's VA has a nice voice. (Japanese and English. Go Michelle Ruff! <3) I personally can't stand Himeko's english VA, but I really like her Japanese one. Anyway, I hope you'll find the rest of the series enjoyable. :)

Agreed, and I hope so too.

Continuing on:

Episode 5

-So the green haired dude is Souma's brother or something? You'd never guess it by looking at him.
-I'm guessing that the dude that was lying on the ground covered in blood was Souma's dad?
-Lying unconscious in the middle of the road. Typical Himeko.
-Too predictable.
-:heh: @ the pop idol using a cat toy to play with the catgirl!
-"Boy's love." Spoken like a true yaoi fangirl.
-Souma should thank his dad. Its because of the beatings that he took as a kid that he's a tough bastard now.
-Himeko fills her quota of crying at least once every episode.
-No males in the mansion except for Chikane's dad? Daddy has some strict rules.
-LOLz @ Chikane! Last time I checked, you aren't the one that keeps fighting off the Orochi! You're in no position to lecture Souma about protecting Himeko.
-There we go Souma! Don't take her shit!
-Argh, don't apologize for standing up for yourself!
-Green haired guy has stupid logic. He brings hell on himself, then turns around and hates the world for it and accepts his destiny to destroy the world for that reason, even though it would kill his brother and others like him?
-Having Himeko cheer you on would be a serious morale booster.
-"She's always suffering and crying..." Even when there's nothing worth feeling tormented over.
-...And the first head is the first to bite it.

Episode 6

-Himeko should just stick with the ribbon. Those kinds of braids FTFF.
-Good, looks like she's not keeping them.
-Sweet... omelets? That doesn't sound very good.
-She calls Chikane by her given name right off the bat, but is still calling Souma by his family name despite having known him for years? :confused:
-Its nice that they're finally going back and showing how Himeko and Chikane got attached to each other. That kind of bugged me at the beginning.
-Good, she didn't even flinch that time! *watches as she keels over for a sec* ...Goddammit, Himeko. At least she continued instead of staying unconscious.
-Spoke too soon.
-"Could something be lacking?" Gee, I dunno, a priestess with a strong enough constitution to go an entire week without passing out?
-Listening to people constantly talk down about themselves = annoying.
-So Tsubasa isn't dead. *is indifferent*
-STOP BRAIDING THE HAIR.

Episode 7

-You'll kill yourself if you see Himeko naked? That could really be taken the wrong way.
-So the second head would be Chikane's sister?
-I don't get how anyone could be taken in by the second head's fast talk... even from the inside, it should be pretty obvious that Himeko views Chikane as a very close friend at the very least. And even if that's not enough, why would having some third party who's only relation to Himeko is her potential assassin tell you that you love her and you can't have her bother you?
-You have to kill yourself now, Souma.
-Yeah Souma, stop hurting nya nya! :(

Episode 8

-AKA "GTFO, Otoha!"
-Yeah, like pushing over a small chair in a big open room is going to slow her down.
-*slap* Damn, psuedo-Chikane is really agressive!

Overall Impression So Far

-In case you can't tell by my lack of comments, I was more into episode eight than the others before it. Show's still not great, but I enjoyed these episodes. I'll at least be able to give it a "good" rating on ANN now.
-I was hoping that Himeko's crying and weak constitution would have worn off at this point... at least her fainting has been toned down somewhat. (even if she does still faint sometimes)
-The pop idol chick and the catgirl are still my favorites.

Kipp
2007-02-04, 23:57
Oh your reviews continue to crack me up. ;) Four more episodes to go!

Deathkillz
2007-02-05, 17:25
What exactly is bad about the mecha scenes in this show. I seriously don't understand, they are well animated, hot blooded, have silly super robot attacks?.
i think its mainly due to the repetitiveness and predictability of the mecha fights...we all know that souma is gonna win anyway so why drag it out any longer? but thank god that an event changes things around near the last few eps :eyespin:

Shiroth
2007-02-05, 18:02
we all know that souma is gonna win anyway so why drag it out any longer?
You really haven't seen that many Mecha shows.. have you?

teachopvutru
2007-02-22, 06:31
Lol... like Power Ranger? xD

Anyway, I kinda like this series but the only problem I have is shoujo-ai (I found that out after watching the 1st episode lol) ... Anyway, after ending the whole thing I guess I'm quite fine with it...

Tsuki-Miko-14
2007-03-20, 18:14
have any one read knm manga it own 2 vol out

Devious
2007-05-02, 03:45
hm I'm obsessed with these series :) they're so cute and different from all those romance anime ha I liked the action :) and though I'm a girl I kinda like the yuri aspect because I've noticed that in yuri animes relationships are much deeper than in normal ones oh well as usual I want more!!!

Stephanie
2007-08-15, 01:21
I see you guys are debating the "rape" thing and I would like to join in as well.. I've watched the series and pretty much have an experience like hers.. (You catch my drift, right?) And, no, I think Chikane was just holding back all this time, making the "It's because I want you to hate me cause I might kill you again" a GREAT excuse..

If I were to put my shoes in Chikane's, I would probably just beat the person up, (feels terrible, ne?) or do something that would make her hate me, but raping? I would rather die or not go with this plan at all than do this to her..

Maybe I'd create a lie like, "They discovered that the sun has to kill the moon to, blah blah blah.."

Tsk, tsk.. This is the part where I realise Chikane wasn't giving 100% self-less love.. She gets jelous and stuff..

Also, why would Himeko, being shocked and not talking to anyone, look for Chikane again? She was raped by her, right? Doesn't make sense to me..

Oops, it seems I was reading page 25 when I posted this.. >.<

Chiibi
2007-08-21, 17:25
-The OP sucks. Rave music FTF

How DARE you say that about Re-sublimity!? It's in my top ten best openings! :mad:

Darkyouck
2007-09-27, 18:59
I've got a question about the end of Kannazuki no Miko and the visual novel Figure of Happiness / しあわせのかたち.
You need to have finish this visual novel with all endings to be able to answer : )


I just finished Kannazuki no Miko and the end looks so like the " true " ending with Minamo, I think about the facts that :

- they must be separated because their fate
- Ryô and Himeko both keep some feelings about the one they love after reincarnation, even if they forgot her.
-they both choose to meet again the one they love by fighting their fate.
- exactly the same scene happens at the end, they both find again the one they love in the street, separated by the crosswalk.

Figure of Happiness is older than Kannazuki no Miko, so is it possible the mangaka copied this ending ?

Well, I know this is a stupid question no one can answer but anyone else who played this game and saw that anime thought about it ?

Oh plzz, I hope someone noticed that too, I won't sleep this night if no one answer my question. I loved both of those pieces of art so much


P.S : forgive me about my language, i'm not really good in english

taelrak
2007-10-06, 23:17
Yea, this is such an underrated series. Just take away all the random Mecha scenes and you have one of the most heartbreakingly tragic and beautiful love stories seen in anime.

I was soo disappointed in the joke of a story that was "Kyoushirou to Towa no Sora".

Fweakin
2007-10-07, 01:02
Ah! Kannazuki no Miko, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways.

In all seriousness, this is one of my favourite anime (despite the plot holes, the superfluous mecha, and the unmentionable scene in ep 8, Himeko dropping like a fly anytime ANYTHING happened), which goes to show how good the others parts were to make up for this.
Brownie points of course go to the delicious episodes 11 and 12, with the awesome juxtaposition of Chikane's poem while slashing at Himeko, and the pure awesomeness that was the entirety of ep 12.


What I really loved was the rewatchability of the series. Ive watched the whole thing through about 3 times now and keep picking up different things as I go. My last pickup was the fact that Himeko never really initiates any contact with Souma until Chikane pressures her into it, and ever then the first 5 episodes or so she doesnt appear all that keen on him.

Okay, I'm going to stop fangirling, because I hate fangirls.

I was soo disappointed in the joke of a story that was "Kyoushirou to Towa no Sora".

And I wholeheartedly agree. The side characters were infinitely more entertaining than Kuu and Kyoshiro. Setsuna is awesome and the only of the characters for the main arc (Kuu, Kyoshiro and Setsuna) that I liked. And because she kept getting shafted, the poor dear.

Droplet
2008-02-17, 06:35
I love Kannazuki no Miko beyond all doubt. But I have found something like KnM that I've come to love much more, if that was possible. It fills up many holes left in the series and provides a richer world, with new characters that don't feel out of place at all, surprisingly. It's a novel length fic called "Lovers Eternal" found at fanfiction dot net. Instead of awkward mechas as the Orochi's weapons of evil, they get swords. If you call yourself a KnM fan, you shouldn't miss it out.

Phantasmagoria
2008-02-17, 06:43
You wouldn't mind direct-linking do you? It should be fine if it is a fan-fic..

Do you mean this? http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2388167/1/Kannazuki_no_Miko_Lovers_Eternal_Complete

I will take a look, if you could confirm.

Chiibi
2008-02-18, 16:42
I wonder if I'm the only person on here whose favorite characters are Himeko and Souma.... >_>
I really don't see how anyone could hate a character as adorable as Himeko. I know she is weak but I mean...she's so damn cute I would almost go lesbian for her. Almost. That is how cute she is:heh:

.....did I actually say that? :upset: Oh gawd...need to look at bishounen....now...!

Phantasmagoria
2008-02-18, 16:44
I remember you posting something similar to that some time ago.

Yea, I believe you're the only one, lol.

Chiibi
2008-02-18, 17:05
Did I? XD Sorry. I do that sometimes.:heh:

That's a little hard to believe. They ARE a cute couple and I bet you anything if Souma were a girl, half the fans would go crazy.:rolleyes:

Phantasmagoria
2008-02-18, 17:06
Yea, I would love to see Chikane and Souma(If he's a girl) to compete for Himeko, that will be so interesintg!

Back to reality, I don't think it will happen.. :(

Chiibi
2008-02-18, 17:23
Definitely won't.:heh: Kaishaku's too busy with...wait I dunno...is the Kyosora manga over yet I wonder...::confused:

Anyway when it comes to couples, I ship for interaction between the characters regardless of their gender. Interaction is the important thing.

Kaly101
2008-06-11, 20:47
I need help. I'm trying to find a scene for an AMV but I just can't find it. its where Himeko and Chikane are at the garden. Himeko is on the ground with the puppy, Chikane offers her hand to her and we see himeko take it.

Please help me I really need that scene :(

(I forgot to add, I'll be presenting this AMV at an anime con)

Sol Falling
2009-12-24, 13:55
Holy hell this anime. Incredible. Tears. "The moon shines because of the sun. The sun shines for the sake of the moon." That was fucking beautiful.

Anyway, aside from the emotional high off eps 10-12, this whole series actually is so well done. 1-5 are simply epic, the music, the hotblood, it's just incredibly badass. Then we slow down a bit with the genuine shoujo-ai development in eps 6-7 that really is the heart of the show. Episode 8 is of course the rape scene, actually the worst part of the show for me, which is damned ironic considering I picked this up for the deranged yuri action. This is followed by epic Chikane action in ep 9, then that just shattered dream in episode 10, and finally 11-12 just carry the whole thing through to the climax. Man, I've only even watched this once. This whole thing is just so memorable.

Last thing: I'm kinda surprised animation from 2004 is so decent. Guess I don't watch enough old anime, or maybe it's just that there's still so much crappy art now.

D-KLAC
2009-12-31, 00:15
i can't take it anymore i like yuri anime series!!!

yes really this got me more curious like birthday kiss or y-attack on ep.8 really i got to see this someday.

tyciol
2010-10-22, 02:38
I hope the popularity of girls' love anime like this one encourage people to some day animate classic manga such as Shiroi Heya no Futari.

darkchibi07
2010-10-22, 10:47
I hope the popularity of girls' love anime like this one encourage people to some day animate classic manga such as Shiroi Heya no Futari.

That's a REAAAAAAAALY big stretch.

roriconfan
2011-02-03, 15:12
REVIEW TIME

Ah, Kannazuki no Miko (KNM), what a ride that was. I am into anime since early 80’s and I got to live through all kinds of fads, even before the internet era. This happens to be a show that created a sort of tsunami when it first aired, because yuri anime were still rare back then and the weird blend of mecha with lesbianism and mysticism made many to believe it was the greatest thing ever conceived.

Of course a few years later all the lackluster faded away, and so did the interest in this show. You see, it didn’t need much for the greatest anime era of all times to come along (2006-2007) which offered a mountain of REALLY good shows. Comparing them to KNM was like the Hanging Gardens next to a flower pot. And that is what is was actually, a small flowerpot which instead of one flower sprouting on it, it actually had three (mecha, lesbianism, mysticism). Needless to say, it felt special only because most of the fandom has no idea of good storytelling (as usual), knows no similar (and better) shows, and bites the premise and spits pacing and quality like they are unneeded elements. Sorry to disappoint them but I am not an idiot.

Seriously, I never liked this show, neither was ever part of the fan club, even back when everybody wanted to part of a group and this was the hottest title yet. Because I learned to appreciate the finer things in a show and not the superficial exterior, a thing which makes KNM look like a huge coconut with an extremely thick exterior and very little juice inside.

But allow me to be more specific. The story of KNM is about two teenage lesbian shrine maidens in need to prevent an eight-headed snake from destroying the world, through the use of magic and huge robots, while battling each head individually, which is practically a huge robot divided into eight machines and respective pilots, all incarnated every X number of generations in an attempt to eat everything (or something). To make things more complicating, one of the heads is a teenager boy in love with one of the lesbians and thus renegades to their side, while at the same time one of the two heroines gets fed up along the way and decides to join the villains. All of which happen within 12 episodes full of mecha battles, mystical training, erotic/romantic moments and funky soundtracks. Yeah, the premise is indeed awesome and on paper it’s a masterpiece.

In practice, it leaves much to be desired as all its cool points end up being average at best.
-The mecha action is just there for no reason at all. It offers nothing plot-wise and it’s not even good action-wise. You can remove it without a problem and take along with it 20% of the total duration.
-The mysticism part is important to place the setting into a pre-existing context, as the story is based on old Shinto myths. Who doesn’t like Shinto with its rich mythology and its philosophy which defines the Japanese mentality? Not to mention, Miko uniforms are in the top 10 most famous sexual fetishes. But again, it’s not as if the story couldn’t be defined with a fictional mythology. It’s not as if you will become less wise without it; it’s loosely using the myths to begin with.
-The lesbian part ends out being its most strong point. The core story is after all love and how a heartbrake can lead to despair, destruction and betrayal. But again, it is not as if the exact same thing couldn’t be done with a heterosexual couple. The element of the lesbians is nothing but a bait for those easily swayed by such superficial taboos (and boy is the anime fandom full of those). I bet the show wouldn’t be half as thrilling back then if it had a (plain, boring, typical) normal relationship but at the same time it’s not as if it’s what makes the anime stand the test of time. Because as we can see today, it failed.

What I am trying to say here is that the only thing that was somewhat interesting back then was the weird blend of technology with magic and erotic taboos. It’s otherwise not doing a good job at being anything other than the usual fuss.
- If you see at the three elements separately, you can easily tell how average it plays. The mecha battles are performed in the stereotypical way of special attacks and occasional power ups, mysticism is nothing but a vague background element, and the lesbian relationship follows the exact same pattern most similar stories do. They don’t even combine with one another in order to be in need of all three at the same time. You can easily make three separate shows with them.
-Add to that all those following mecha shows like Aquarion or Demosbane or Asura Cryin’ which also combined weird elements (and are equally terrible as anime) that took away the uniqueness of the whole deal (in terms of lameness).
-Add to that the dozens of yuri titles that the industry is so overflowed with today to take away the interest in KNM’s more than typical couple.

But that is not enough, there is even another annoying thing in it. Besides the main couple, all other characters remain nothing but blunt archetypes, with the snake head pilots to be all some lame sexual or shounen stereotypes with a blank character sheet. Yet for the lulz of it, in the final episode we get 3 seconds of each one of them in a flashback, explaining why they have a grudge with the world. By the way, at that time they were all dead and we were seeing that postmortem, in a lame attempt at fleshing them out. Thanks a lot idiots; they are already dead (in fact this famous Hokuto no Ken phrase is quite true to the series, as even there the villains would also be fleshed out in a similar fashion, moments before they kick the bucket).

As for the art, well, it looks average today with the attention to the shrines and that funky moon backgrounds to offer a dreamy feeling that make the artwork look better. Otherwise, the action has jerky movements and boring-looking explosions, with all the attention being given only to those tender romantic moments between the two lesbians.

Finally the soundtrack is VERY good and practically the best thing in the anime. It has many good funky tunes and songs that contributed a lot to the illusion that the show is more than it appears to be (when it’s not).

Bottomline, it is an average anime with bad use of its elements, little reason in rewatching or even remembering it in the longrun.

Art: 7
Music: 9
Story: 4
Characters: 3
Value: 3
Enjoyment: 3
Average Score: 4.8 / 10

AmeNoJaku
2013-05-31, 13:58
A brilliant story, but as the original manga, it could have cut down the mecha and fanservice a little to give room for more for graphic depictions that would make even more "experts" freak out and hate the story :heh:

The animation and static art could have been better, but considering the audience it was sold to (the anime, not the original manga), it was good enough (taking its age into account too).

In the end, should one not be able to appreciate the story, despite the adoption's visual weaknesses (which are revered by those "experts"), probably story and character development are not their thing, and should stick to commercial flicks popular with ADD teens, hipsters and weebos :p

PS: Sorry for being a little harsh, but reading through reviews in popular sites and forums, made me lose faith to humanity... again :heh:

Mazryonh
2013-06-01, 16:46
What exactly is the original artist team, Kaishaku, doing today? I haven't heard a peep from them with regards to anime adaptations ever since Kyoushiro to Towa no Sora finished.

I will admit that Mina Kubota did an excellent job in this show. Too bad she doesn't get more work.