View Full Version : Episode 22 - Lunge's Trap
AKraze just released. Excellent episode.... about time Lunge came back into the picture...couple of odd things I noticed however.
How did Lunge get around the "perfect" alibi that the nephew was supposed to have? It seems quite stupid of the nephew to stab Lunge when he knows that there is an iron clad alibi.
Secondly, what is this? Lunge suddenly doesn't care about cases to which he is assigned anymore? The guy cares about getting Tenma, granted, but since when does he NOT care about bringing other murderers to justice? He was willing to let the newphew go free in this episode. That seems entirely out of character for a man as meticulous and exacting as Lunge...
Either way, pretty good episode... hoping the story stays this way instead of getting sidetracked again.
Silence_Fish
2004-09-14, 00:40
We've got over 70 episodes to endure, I'm sure there'll be more sidetracking. While it was an entertaining episode, I still thought it was a bit dissapointing in that the story was progressed in no real way; Tenma and Lunge met, parted, and that's that. The only difference now is that Lunge owes Tenma his life. I hope some of the episodes start revealing more about Johan, and if not with him actually in it, at least further revelations about his nature.
hooliganj
2004-09-14, 01:34
It shouldn't be to long before we get an arc where Tenma is barely around, it's all about Johan and Nina instead. I can think of at least one more series of stories that could be considered a sidetrack, but it's shorter than the ones we just finished up.
Lunge's my second favorite character in this show (they haven't introduced #1 yet), and the scene where he's recreating the crime is one of his cooler moments, IMO. It's interesting to see a genius at work. :cool:
Silence_Fish
2004-09-14, 01:48
the scene where he's recreating the crime is one of his cooler moments, IMO. It's interesting to see a genius at work. :cool:
Definitely a cool scene.
Melty Snow
2004-09-14, 02:07
Lunge is so cool and creepy going after Tenma the way he does, he needs to show up more. I think I should watch that Eva/Lunge episode again.
xfordained
2004-09-14, 02:46
Lunge is definately a wicked char hes become one of my favorite anime chars hes just so cool, by the way very good episode
It shouldn't be to long before we get an arc where Tenma is barely around, it's all about Johan and Nina instead.
Can you please stop telling us what is coming up? At least put it in a spoiler tag.
I understand that you're trying not spoiling anything directly.. but I would still prefer not to have ANY idea of what is coming up.
By me or Silence Fish stating that we hope the story goes a certain way.. we are not asking anyone to TELL us where the story is heading. At least, put it in a spoiler so that people like myself who dont want to see where its heading wont see it.
Thanks
AKraze just released. Excellent episode.... about time Lunge came back into the picture...couple of odd things I noticed however.
How did Lunge get around the "perfect" alibi that the nephew was supposed to have? It seems quite stupid of the nephew to stab Lunge when he knows that there is an iron clad alibi.
Secondly, what is this? Lunge suddenly doesn't care about cases to which he is assigned anymore? The guy cares about getting Tenma, granted, but since when does he NOT care about bringing other murderers to justice? He was willing to let the newphew go free in this episode. That seems entirely out of character for a man as meticulous and exacting as Lunge...
Either way, pretty good episode... hoping the story stays this way instead of getting sidetracked again.
What perfect alibi? Lunge wants to reassured the nephew whom he knew to be guilty so he can capture Tenma. As for his sense of justice... He was isolated in BKA after that political case blew up in his face (the assistant of the politican Lunger suspect of killing a hooker comitted suicide, taking the blame). He focused his remainding attention on Tenma above all others.
Lunge directly mentions that he has a perfect alibi with multiple witnesses backing him up.
If I was in the newphews place and I had multiple witnesses backing up my story giving ME the perfect alibi, I sure as hell wouldn't go stab the detective. It would be plain stupid of me to commit another murder when I know that Lunge has absolutely no hard evidence..only suspicions... and what is more.. Lunge doesn't even CARE about bringing me to justice. He directly said he didn't care about the murder.
Under these circumstances.... there is absolutely no reason for me to kill the detective. The detective who happens to have suspicions isn't even interested in capturing me, and I have the perfect alibi which will save me from any other detectives... why should I be killing him?
Yes, the political case blew up in his face.. he was isolated. But that doesn't in ANY possible way explain the fact that he was willing to LET a murderer go free. Its completely out of character for a brilliant detective to let murderers go free... EVEN after an embarrassing case.
hooliganj
2004-09-14, 15:23
Sorry about the spoiler, I was trying to be reassuring, but I guess I put forward too much information.
Anyway, it was pretty obvious when the nephew showed up at the office and tried to get an apology out of Lunge that he wasn't satisfied that the detective didn't care. Lunge had dropped multiple hints that he knew exactly who did it, and probably how, and simply wasn't concerned. It wasn't enough of a puzzle for him to get interested in it.
As for out of character, you guys are assigning a lot of virtues to Detective Lunge without any real evidence to back it up, based (presumably) on his position as a senior law enforcement officer. Lunge is obsessive, in the extreme, and he is constantly bored without something challenging to work on. Before he started getting cut off in the BKA, he intentionally went after the hardest and most complex cases, otherwise he considers his time and his talents wasted. It's not about catching criminals, it's about solving puzzles.
Also, he does not tolerate failure, especially from himself. As he said, Tenma is the one case he never managed to close, and he will not rest until he gets his man.
Now that I write it all out here, it occurs to me that Lunge's character is a lot like Sherlock Holmes, except he has no Watson and isn't addicted to cocaine.
It really isn't about any virtues I'm abscribing to him. He stated directly that in his career Tenma was the only person who he did not get.
Now, are we to assume that every single case before Tenma's was intellectually pleasing to him? As far as I understand, detectives can't just pick and choose cases saying "oh this one looks boring". They are required to solve everything that they are assigned to.
So, if Lunge was so obsessive enough to complete every case, regardless of complexity, that he was assigned before Tenma's case... why is it that he does not have the same obsessiveness anymore?
If you say that Lunge doesn't care about catching criminals, and only care about solving puzzles ... then how do you explain the fact that he's solved every case he's been given so far? It seems quite unrealistic to me to think that every single case he came across before Lunge was complex to his liking.
Lunge is similar to Holmes, but only in his mannerisms. Lunge is an officer of the law, Holmes was a private detective who could pick and choose. Lunge doesn't have the same luxury. The closest parallel in Doyle's universe that I could find would be either Gregson or Lestrade.... official Scotland Yarders..."the pick of the bad lot" as Holmes says :)
hooliganj
2004-09-14, 16:56
I can only suppose that there was never a conflict that had him choosing one case over another before. Before this particular assignment, interesting or not, he solved every case, but I think he did it mostly to protect his reputation. When he got his case load reassigned he seemed very put out; it was a blow to his self image (not to mention the wife and daughter leaving). I don't think he would ignore a case just because it's boring, but he would solve it as quickly as possible to move on to something more interesting.
With the current case, he finally has to choose between the two. The nephew has committed a simple and unoriginal crime for petty purposes, while (to him at least) Tenma is a psychological mystery who commits unimaginable crimes that are utterly devoid of emotion. Since Lunge has been thrust into a postion where he must choose who to catch, he goes for the more interesting target, as befits his obsessive personality.
As a side note, it was also unlikely that the nephew was going to kill anyone else, whereas Tenma is supposed to be a cold-blooded serial murderer. If anyone needs a more justice-related reasoning for Lunge's actions, you can believe that he was going after the more dangerous criminal. I don't buy it for a second, but it is an explanation.
It was a pretty good episode as mentioned the recreation of the copycat killing was very good, and continues to distinguish the sort of anime that Monster is. Lunge is obviously disturbed and obsessed about Tenma, and is fuelling his psychosis. I don't what's coming next, but the character development is quite good (if slow).
Lutefisk
2004-09-14, 17:46
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.familycrest_details/s.Runge/Runge_family_Crest/Runge_coat_of_arms/qx/Runge.htm
Just want to add my 2cent,
Lunge is not a normal german/dutch name and lunge is lung in english. Think of naming your kid Lung, how cool would that be :p However, it's Runge in the official German version of the Manga.
I can only suppose that there was never a conflict that had him choosing one case over another before. Before this particular assignment, interesting or not, he solved every case, but I think he did it mostly to protect his reputation. When he got his case load reassigned he seemed very put out; it was a blow to his self image (not to mention the wife and daughter leaving). I don't think he would ignore a case just because it's boring, but he would solve it as quickly as possible to move on to something more interesting.
With the current case, he finally has to choose between the two. The nephew has committed a simple and unoriginal crime for petty purposes, while (to him at least) Tenma is a psychological mystery who commits unimaginable crimes that are utterly devoid of emotion. Since Lunge has been thrust into a postion where he must choose who to catch, he goes for the more interesting target, as befits his obsessive personality.
As a side note, it was also unlikely that the nephew was going to kill anyone else, whereas Tenma is supposed to be a cold-blooded serial murderer. If anyone needs a more justice-related reasoning for Lunge's actions, you can believe that he was going after the more dangerous criminal. I don't buy it for a second, but it is an explanation.
You're making it sound like Lunge had to choose who to catch - the nephew or Tenma....There really is no "conflict of interest" so to speak. Lunge was perfectly capable of solving both cases.
All Lunge had to do is keep his suspicions about the newphew to himself. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever to let the newphew know that he was on to him.
He could've just kept his mouth shut, captured Tenma, and THEN captured the nephew.
Inspite of his ability to solve BOTH cases, he directly reveals his suspicions to the nephew... and directly states that he isn't interested in bringing the nephew to justice.
That is what is so inconsistent.... if he cared about his reputation for so many years and made sure he brought every criminal to justice... it logically follows that he continue doing the same. I dont buy this...."one case went against him.. so he doesn't care about bringing murderers to justice anymore" characterization that the series has put forward.
hooliganj
2004-09-14, 23:45
Just want to add my 2cent,
Lunge is not a normal german/dutch name and lunge is lung in english. Think of naming your kid Lung, how cool would that be However, it's Runge in the official German version of the Manga.
Yeah, and when he handed his business card to the victim's neighbor, it said 'Heinrich Runge'. I'm just used to 'Lunge' because that's how MangaScreener spelled it in all 18 volumes of the manga. Now that it's licensed, we'll have to see how Viz handles it.
You're making it sound like Lunge had to choose who to catch - the nephew or Tenma....There really is no "conflict of interest" so to speak. Lunge was perfectly capable of solving both cases.
All Lunge had to do is keep his suspicions about the newphew to himself. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever to let the newphew know that he was on to him.
He could've just kept his mouth shut, captured Tenma, and THEN captured the nephew.
Inspite of his ability to solve BOTH cases, he directly reveals his suspicions to the nephew... and directly states that he isn't interested in bringing the nephew to justice.
That is what is so inconsistent.... if he cared about his reputation for so many years and made sure he brought every criminal to justice... it logically follows that he continue doing the same. I dont buy this...."one case went against him.. so he doesn't care about bringing murderers to justice anymore" characterization that the series has put forward.
It's true that he could have handled it so that both suspects got caught, but as soon as Lunge announces that it's a copycat crime (and he knew almost immediately), the chances of Tenma showing up are diminished. It's possible that they could have arrested the nephew in secret, and laid the trap that way, but I think that would have underestimated Tenma's intelligence. No, Lunge knew the best way to lay the trap was to pretend that even he thought it was one of the serial murders, otherwise something might slip out.
It's true that he would have been better off not saying anything to the nephew, but Lunge can also be a smug wiseass sometimes, apparently, and was enjoying the power trip he got by tweaking the nephew's nose a little.
Yup.. thats exactly what I'm saying... if Lunge had kept his mouth shut... he would've CERTAINLY gotten Tenma (since the nephew wouldn't have come to stab him).. and then he would've easily gotten the nephew later.
Why he didn't is beyond me...
Now I'm curious if Lunge will even stay in the department... if he doesn't care about bringing criminals to justice, he might as well just quit and become a private investigator so he can devote all his energies to the Tenma case..
Oh well.. I guess only time will tell.. :)
hooliganj
2004-09-15, 15:00
Oh well.. I guess only time will tell.. :)
I could, but you told me to stop spoiling things, so I won't. :p :D
Guys PLEASE no spoilers of any sort... There are many people here that got spoiled with this thread...
hooliganj
2004-09-15, 17:28
Guys PLEASE no spoilers of any sort... There are many people here that got spoiled with this thread...
Um... this is an episode specific thread, and clearly marked as such. The rule of thumb I always followed was that you shouldn't read such threads until you've seen the episode in question, if you don't want to be spoiled. Otherwise, how can we discuss the episode, which is the entire purpose of the thread?
I've already gone back and modified my original post, and put my leading statement in spoiler tags (and I note that avmoghe needs to do the same with his reply), but there isn't anything else here that wasn't covered in this or a previous episode.
Um... this is an episode specific thread, and clearly marked as such. The rule of thumb I always followed was that you shouldn't read such threads until you've seen the episode in question, if you don't want to be spoiled. Otherwise, how can we discuss the episode, which is the entire purpose of the thread?
I've already gone back and modified my original post, and put my leading statement in spoiler tags (and I note that avmoghe needs to do the same with his reply), but there isn't anything else here that wasn't covered in this or a previous episode.
What I mean is that it is not a good idea to put manga spoilers in the anime thread. I didn't even want to know that....
There will be another interesting character introduced to the series
Yeah that could be kinda obvious but it is good to let yourself be surpriced by the story.
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