View Full Version : Kaizoku-Fansubs, why leave out the credits?
I'm really a newbie when it comes to fansubs but, watching One Piece from Kaizoku-Fansubs, I come across a strange new situation. Why are the closing credits missing? *confused look*
So far, all the other fansubbed series I've been watching include the closing credits. But they are missing from the One Piece fansubs. I'll like to know the reason. (I'm not criticizing or demanding. I'm only curious as to why.) I'm a voice actor fan and I like to watch the closing credits to know who is responsible for voicing which character. It's kind of frustrating not having the closing credits to watch because One Piece has an amazing cast of primary as well as supporting characters and I have yet to find a site that lists all the parts and all the voice actors responsible.
On a more general note, may I ask the other fansub watchers on this forum..... do you care if the closing credits are included or not? Why..... if you do care and why not if you don't?
Sometimes closing credits are important. For instance Saiyuki Reload. Those who watch Saiyuki Reload will know why. *wink*
Anyway, generally, I feel that closing credits should be included. In much the same way that fansubbers always include their own credits crediting the people who timed, translated, checked, etc....... because they feel these people should be given credit for their hard work, I think it's important to leave the ***original*** credits which list the Japanese cast and crew intact.
Eloquently titled previous thread:
intro-outro 2 long lolz (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=1841)
DrWho2002
2003-12-05, 11:06
K-F does that so they don't have to be bothered to take more time to encode each episode's proper OP/ED sequence, they just use a stock one and slap it on each episode they put together. They also don't include the next ep previews because they feel it spoils too much of the next episode in their opinion (which I don't agree with). K-F is acting much like some licensing company in that regard.
DekaMaster
2003-12-05, 11:18
K-F does that so they don't have to be bothered to take more time to encode each episode's proper OP/ED sequence, they just use a stock one and slap it on each episode they put together. They also don't include the next ep previews because they feel it spoils too much of the next episode in their opinion (which I don't agree with). K-F is acting much like some licensing company in that regard.
It's not their place as fansubbers to make those calls. One of the shows my group does the op timing changes every ep,but since people like the op and we think it's nice to have the shows credits it gets retimed each time. And the next ep thing,people can stop the ep from playing. K-F has no place cutting or changing any of it.
K-F does that so they don't have to be bothered to take more time to encode each episode's proper OP/ED sequence, they just use a stock one and slap it on each episode they put together. They also don't include the next ep previews because they feel it spoils too much of the next episode in their opinion (which I don't agree with).
I don't mind not having previews. But I feel strongly about the credits.
Even as webmasters and fansubbers, we all feel we should be given credit for our effort...... no? I'm sure even K-F will agree with that. They love their site and they want their fansubbing effort to be recognized. (And personally I think they do a great job with the translation and subbing.) But if the *original* credits are chopped off....... but the credits for their own fansubbing efforts are left in........ I don't know. Maybe I'm not seeing this thing properly but I feel it's kind of unfair. *huge sweat drop* Again, I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to stir up an unpleasant debate. I would just like to be able to see things from a different point of view. *sweat drop*
Tofusensei
2003-12-05, 13:07
Fansubbers should not alter the video in any way. It was intended by the Japanese producers to be seen that way, so it's our responsibility to uphold their efforts. The same goes for not removing japanese credits... In fact it's much more important to have japanese credits than it is to have fansub credits because, let's face it, their work is a lot more important and harder than ours :P
-Tofu
lighter junkie
2003-12-05, 13:28
actually, i think... i think, you maybe able to find the cast of voice actors from animenfo, as well as other information that you talked about, in the ending-credits. i think KF did the best job on One Piece in terms of video quality and translation, so if leaving out the credits and previews can alleviate their work-load, i don't think that's such a bad thing, i mean if you need to know everything, just do a search on google and eventually you'll end up with something.
peronally, i'm just grateful that KF...and in general all fansubs are there to bring the anime to us at all. i mean i barely do any free-work at all. being persnickety isn't all that bad, but i figured if something can be done on your own, i'd probably do it myself rather than making complaints to the group who did all the hard work during their freetime.
DekaMaster
2003-12-05, 13:37
actually, i think... i think, you maybe able to find the cast of voice actors from animenfo, as well as other information that you talked about, in the ending-credits. i think KF did the best job on One Piece in terms of video quality and translation, so if leaving out the credits and previews can alleviate their work-load, i don't think that's such a bad thing, i mean if you need to know everything, just do a search on google and eventually you'll end up with something.
peronally, i'm just grateful that KF...and in general all fansubs are there to bring the anime to us at all. i mean i barely do any free-work at all. being persnickety isn't all that bad, but i figured if something can be done on your own, i'd probably do it myself rather than making complaints to the group who did all the hard work during their freetime.
If they need to alleviate their work-load then they are not fansubbing for the right reasons. It is a hobby nothing more. If they are cutting off the credits to save them time that is a very bad thing.
actually, i think... i think, you maybe able to find the cast of voice actors from animenfo, as well as other information that you talked about, in the ending-credits.
I have tried but no site lists the credits for all the voice actors in all the episodes. We're talking about a really huge cast and I'm interested in the voice actors for the supporting characters as well and not just the main cast. I know who the main cast are in fact because I already own the anime artbook and they are featured. But even the official anime artbook does not list every voice actor who's worked on OP. If anyone is able to direct me to a site that lists these voice actors in every episode, I'd be enormously grateful.
i think KF did the best job on One Piece in terms of video quality and translation, so if leaving out the credits and previews can alleviate their work-load, i don't think that's such a bad thing, i mean if you need to know everything, just do a search on google and eventually you'll end up with something.
I've already explained myself. And I'm not saying they're not doing a good job. They are! I just want to understand why they omit the credits. They don't have to translate the voice actors or even the song. I just want to see the closing credits to check things......... but you're right. I'm asking for too much. >_<;;;;;
peronally, i'm just grateful that KF...and in general all fansubs are there to bring the anime to us at all. i mean i barely do any free-work at all. being persnickety isn't all that bad, but i figured if something can be done on your own, i'd probably do it myself rather than making complaints to the group who did all the hard work during their freetime.
I'm not complaining. *sweat drop* Why does everyone take questions about a fansub group's practice to be negative feedback/complaints/whining? I'm not complaining. I think KF is doing a great job. I just want to understand why they leave out the credits.......... >_<;;;;;;;;; I'd be happy with an answer- maybe from someone from KF- and I'll never ask again. >_<;;;;;;;;
Mmm ... let's say the op and ed take up 25 megs of the encode. Now multiply that by 72 and look at all the wasted space that could be better spent on a higher quality encode.
Back in the day of stamp-sized DIVX encodes (<75MB), the op and ed were regularly taken out because people realized that bandwidth was precious. If I were to start DL all of One Piece from the batch torrents at about 100k/sec, that means I would have spent 6 hours worth of bandwidth downloading the bloody op/ed 72 times. It's pointless to include the op/ed in every episode for a series this big.
DrWho2002
2003-12-05, 17:41
Yes, but now the bandwith flows like water, so why do things like cutting OP/ED sequences? I think the fansubbers are doing a disservice to the show they claim to love so much, and I think that nothing of the original product should be changed if someone is doing a fansub of it.
http://www.kaizoku-fansubs.com/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=1116&
Here's a link to their forums which shows just how pretentious these guys think they are. Sure they're doing the show, but these guys feel that they think they can make decisions about OP/ED/next ep previews for us. I think that should be left up to us.
They claim that they try to make their encodes so that they fit on CD's nicely. CDR's are cheap and DVD-R's and writers are getting cheaper by the day. Puhleeze. They don't feel One Piece's next episode previews are "unique" enough to be bothered to include them and they seem too overly concerned about the possiblity of unwanted spoilerage in next episode previews. That may be true in some cases and certain TV shows do do that, but that should be LEFT UP TO THE VIEWER to make that choice to watch them or not. Don't make these decisions for us, because it smacks of megalomania IMO. Plus their response to using stock OP/ED's -> go buy the R2 DVD's. Well if they had english subs I would, but they don't so fansubs are the only alternative if I want to understand it fully.
Yes I realize that I can't really complain as it's free and they do work on it, but I mean don't you think they would catch more flies with honey than vinegar???? Instead of acting all high and mighty.
I hope another R1 company licenses One Piece soon or another group picks it up and does it right.
DekaMaster
2003-12-05, 18:36
I guess it's pretty good that there is nothing that group does I would watch.
They arenīt forcing you to watch it their way, so why all the fuss? I can understand why some people wonīt like this, but personally, I donīt mind - I donīt have to wait until next week before I need to watch the next episode. Do they have the OP/ED separate from the episodes? Thatīd make it all fine and dandy for me ... irrelevant, as Iīm not interested in this one, but ... ;)
I noticed that K-F's source is actually from HK DVDs. Sometimes, to squeeze more episodes onto 1 DVD, HK DVDs do leave out previews. I know the Macross 7 done by the same company does not have previews. Maybe K-F don't have the preview to start out with.
Yeah the sources were hk dvds, but not for very long. They switched to strictly r2 dvds at some point, though when exactly i'm not sure. I do know that every release now is r2 and only r2 (which doesn't help a whole lot because it's episode 72... sorry >_<)
Such a minor point to get angry about... Who really cares? If you're a big enough fan you can find the credits on the internet somewhere. http://www.toei.co.jp/onepiece/ is a good place to start.
If you are a 'voice actor fan', ie. able to read the Kanji names, then why are you bothering with the fansub?
Personally, I wouldn't care, or notice, if they chopped off the ED as well, since I stop the playback when it says 'to be continued'.
I have learned my lesson. One must never ask questions about how things are done or why things are done in a certain way. Fansub groups don't want to hear anything from anyone unless it's outright praise......... >_<;;;;;;;;
Maybe a mod should lock this thread. >_<;;;;;;;;;
First off, if you wanted to ask us something Kid, it would have been better to do it on our own forums. Animesuki seems like a nice place to flame groups.
No one here has hit the real reason why we use a clean op/ed. K-F considers the one piece op and eds to be works of art. We think that the credits clutter them up...also have you noticed we dont put our own credits in the op either? Its totally creditless because we care about how it looks, no other reason. It's true that the creators deserve credit, but the whole reason an average person watches a fansub is because they dont know japanese. Besides, if you really care and can read them, you should be buying the r2 dvds. The reason we fansub is because we love one piece and want to share it with people, thats all.
P.S. - Omg I can't believe we're getting flamed by Kingranger! I'd call him the Killshok of tokusatsu, but that would too much of a compliment. I'm sure most of you haven't seen tv-nihon's subs, but they are by far the most ugly looking mistimed tacky typesetted questionably translated subs i have ever seen.
Cyberdramon
2003-12-06, 00:56
Wow, that was pretty offensive seeing as how I edit, typeset and do many other things for just about all the Tv-Nihon projects. I don't really see what you can base that claim off of, but maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself before you bash people's hard work.
I think so as well Cyberdramon, but if you flame, prepare to be flamed back. Ah and I see you've banned me from your channel, nice way to take criticism.
Cyberdramon
2003-12-06, 01:00
Wow, I don't remember flaming you. I don't even care about people cutting the op/ed. I think this whole topic is pointless until I see my hard work bashed...
And by the way...what you said was soooooooooooooooooooooooo not critisicm that was a direct flame. You want to talk about the translation, editing, typesetting etc come to the people who's name are in the credits for it. Present your case in a non-asshole way and maybe people wouldn't ban you >.<
Jeez... Can't people in these forums go one day without bashing other groups? We're fans here... This is just stupid.
I think that comment is highly offensive. I've watched a few TV-Nihon subs in the past and I thought they were very well done.
I personally don't mind that they've taken out the end and next episode previews, I never watch those.
It pisses people off that you took out the endings. They are posting here to let you know.
Some how it makes me think that kid was right with what he said.
I have learned my lesson. One must never ask questions about how things are done or why things are done in a certain way. Fansub groups don't want to hear anything from anyone unless it's outright praise......... >_<;;;;;;;;
Atleast that's true for some specific groups. I thought it was nice how that one group, Spectre-anime, I believe asked for opinions on it's sub of saiyuki RELOAD and they accepted the feedback.
Maybe a mod should lock this thread. >_<;;;;;;;;;
Yes, a mod should lock this thread if the subbers are just starting arguments. You should have be ashamed of yourself (especially you GTAkito.) Fansub groups should be working together. Although what KingRanger said, could be considered an insult it doesn't necisarily have to be an insult. Please respect not only the fansubbers but the watchers of your subs!
DekaMaster
2003-12-06, 01:26
I think that comment is highly offensive. I've watched a few TV-Nihon subs in the past and I thought they were very well done.
I personally don't mind that they've taken out the end and next episode previews, I never watch those.
It pisses people off that you took out the endings. They are posting here to let you know.
Some how it makes me think that kid was right with what he said.
Atleast that's true for some specific groups. I thought it was nice how that one group, Spectre-anime, I believe asked for opinions on it's sub of saiyuki RELOAD and they accepted the feedback.
Yes, a mod should lock this thread if the subbers are just starting arguments. You should have be ashamed of yourself (especially you GTAkito.) Fansub groups should be working together. Although what KingRanger said, could be considered an insult it doesn't necisarily have to be an insult. Please respect not only the fansubbers but the watchers of your subs!
It was not an insult of any subs they do. It was not an insult to the group. It was my opinion. GTAkito made it a flame with his crap. He stated some things that went way beyond flaming. I have nothing more to say about this. I will not resort to the kind of thing GTAkito did.
That's exactly what I meant. It's kinda GTAkito's fault he felt he was being insulted. Maybe when Nightwish finishes reading this mess he will lock it.
bluemystique
2003-12-06, 01:49
If this thread is just going to be another place where trolls like GTAkito can bash other groups, then yes, it should be closed. I personally think Tv-Nihon is doing a great job with their subs, especially their live action Sailor Moon.
NightWish
2003-12-06, 01:52
Ugh.... enough with the bickering.
Firstly, you (people in general) look very childish trying to state categorically what a fan-sub group can and can not do. Who are you to tell them how they should present the results of their work? If they make bad choices then people will stop watching those subs. If you feel you need to help them make better choices, make constructive suggestions for improvement; do not belittle them for not agreeing with you. In my opinion, to put it simply, if you don't like their approach you should move on and wait for another group.
With that said, I should remind you / reiterate what some have said: that is, most of what is posted is opinion, nothing more. I would ask that in future you all consider this when reading posts and replying to them.
Secondly, outright inflammatory and abusive comments will not be tolerated -- if you do not have something constructive to say; consider not saying anything at all.
Thread Closed.
Ugh~ I feel so slow tonight...
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