View Full Version : Kabuto versus Neji
vega98767
2004-10-07, 20:55
This sounds liek a versus thread( it pretty much is) but since Kabuto is equal to Kakashi and Kakashi is a genius elite ninja which would make him better than Neji then Kabuto should be able to beat Neji. But how would this happen? We saw that Kabuto can regen well and can paralyze limbs and such and isn't bad at tai jutsu and he can do that go into the ground and hit people attack but Neji could see all those things coming with his Byakkugan. The only way id see Kabuto winning is taking a hit and then paralyzing Nejis arm or something but other than that i don't see Kabuto being able to hit Neji.
Not that this counts, but in Naruto: NH2 (PS2 game) Neji beats Kabuto, but Kabuto uses his regen then paralyzes Neji when Neji deactivated his Byakugan
Unlike Kabuto, Neji's attacks don't have to be "turned on" before use. I honestly have no clue.
bricefabber
2004-10-07, 21:23
I'm not sure this will completely answer your question, but one thing you should consider is their speed. Kabuto is Jounin level ninja, while Neji is still a genin with maybe Chuunin level strength. I'm pretty sure that Kabuto is a lot faster than Neji. Neji might be able to see Kabuto's attacks, but may not be able to dodge them all in time. And as we know, one hit from Kabuto's chakra scalpels, and you life is in danger. He could definitely disable Neji, or paralyze him. Plus, he probably has a larger chakra pool than Neji. And there's that regeneration thing too...
While true, we really haven't seen Kabuto's hand to hand speed, Not saying he's not fast, but yeah. Even if he is fast, while it's arguable that Neji may not be as fast (which I don't know about, I think is pretty quick) We all know Neji has insanely fast reflexes, just look at his fight with Kidomaru. He also did get a speed increase in his fight against Kidomaru. If you remember right after Neji shot a bolt of chakra through Kido's line, and Kido was falling to the ground, look at the ground Neji covered to reach Kido before he hit the ground.
i dont think kabuto speed whould really do anything cause im pretty sure that rock lee is faster than kabuto. But even Lee couldnt beat neji with his speed so i dont think kabuto can either.
also neji is a tai genius so it whould be hard to even lay a finger on him. but then again i really dont know how stong kabuto is
well.. over and over on these threads i've seen it emphasized that Jounins are jounin for a reason. Even though it may seem like Kabuto may not be able to penetrate the Kaiten - I'm sure someone on his level would eventually find a way through it. Yes, Neji is strong - he's really strong for a genin (chuunin power) - - but I don't think he's quite up there with Kabuto yet.
*edit* Plus Kabuto has seen a good bit of Neji's higher level attacks - I'm sure if something like this ever were to happen he'd think of a way around it or through it.
Genei Killua
2004-10-07, 22:37
I feel this is no contest. Kabuto would easily dispose of Neji. Perhaps it wouldn't be an immediate thing, but certainly he would experience not much difficulty.
Kamui4356
2004-10-07, 23:01
well.. over and over on these threads i've seen it emphasized that Jounins are jounin for a reason. Even though it may seem like Kabuto may not be able to penetrate the Kaiten - I'm sure someone on his level would eventually find a way through it. Yes, Neji is strong - he's really strong for a genin (chuunin power) - - but I don't think he's quite up there with Kabuto yet.
*edit* Plus Kabuto has seen a good bit of Neji's higher level attacks - I'm sure if something like this ever were to happen he'd think of a way around it or through it.
Yes, jounin are jounin for a reason, but kabuto isn't a jounin. Kabuto is officially a genin, just like Neji. Now Oro says kabuto is about as strong as kakashi, but even if true, Kabuto is still primarily a medic-nin. Neji's most likely better than kabuto in taijutsu and has another advantage with the byakugan, so it comes down to what ninjutsu and genjutsu kabuto knows. Since we haven't seen kabuto use anything other than basic techniques everyone knows and medical jutsu reapplied for combat, we can't say for sure. Yes overall kabuto's probably a great deal stronger, but he really matches up poorly against someone like neji, unless he's hiding something, which everyone assumes, but we really have no evidence for.
Yes, jounin are jounin for a reason, but kabuto isn't a jounin. Kabuto is officially a genin, just like Neji. Now Oro says kabuto is about as strong as kakashi, but even if true, Kabuto is still primarily a medic-nin. Neji's most likely better than kabuto in taijutsu and has another advantage with the byakugan, so it comes down to what ninjutsu and genjutsu kabuto knows. Since we haven't seen kabuto use anything other than basic techniques everyone knows and medical jutsu reapplied for combat, we can't say for sure. Yes overall kabuto's probably a great deal stronger, but he really matches up poorly against someone like neji, unless he's hiding something, which everyone assumes, but we really have no evidence for.
Kabuto is a sound jounin. Why dou you think Kimimaro calls him sensei?
Now...what happened in the Hyuga fight? The jounins jumped in and everyone could see the huge difference between genin and jounin. Kidoumaru nearly killed Neji...if you think Kabuto couldn't kick Neji's ass then you really missed something.
hokagenaruto3
2004-10-08, 04:13
Right Now, Neji is clearly a lot weaker. When you look at Gaara's sand, you'll see how easy Gai ditched it, while it does damage some oen of Genin level. if neji were to grow up however, there wouldn't be many people who can beat him, being the genius he is. He weill definatly grow up to be Sannin-level.
Kabuto would win hands down, Kabuto or any other Jounin level ninja would wipe the floor with any gennin, well exept Naruto of course but what do you expect? He is the hero after all.
I personally don't really like Kabuto and I would love to agree with you, but at the end of the day Kabuto is Orochimaru's subordinate, Kakashi refered to him as "What a guy, In the state i'm in right now I prolly couldn't beat him" And he also made Tsunade think twice about him. Simply put Kabuto is a genius and a most worthy opponent to any Jounin, not a Chuunin and definitly not a gennin.
CyberPunk
2004-10-08, 06:58
i do agree that neji would in the end lose, but i really hate when people use rank as an argument. when applied to konoha's badasses(sasuke, neji, naruto, etc), they really don't mean anything. it's cleary obvious that in terms of skill and power, they are not simply genins. they just lack having passed some test(i'd really like to see the council who deems who's worthy of becoming a chuunin), or in naruto's case, a clear head. in a hypothetical situation to avoid spoilers, say a ninja with a genin's status abandoned konoha and just wandered around the country for a few years being trained by whomever and just became an extremely powerful ninja. would that ninja still be just some genin who a chuunin or jounin could just mop the floor with?
and shay, i like your avatar. is there a bigger version?
Kabuto is a sound jounin. Why dou you think Kimimaro calls him sensei?
Now...what happened in the Hyuga fight? The jounins jumped in and everyone could see the huge difference between genin and jounin. Kidoumaru nearly killed Neji...if you think Kabuto couldn't kick Neji's ass then you really missed something.
Dude Kidomaru would most likely kill Kabuto as well, then add in the fact Kabuto doesn't have Kaiten or the Byakugan.....you're point becomes mute. Kimimaro could be calling Kabuto sensei, since Kabuto is the one trying to heal him, and that he works directly under Orochimaru. He still may not be a Jounin.
BrownRukus
2004-10-08, 12:11
Dude Kidomaru would most likely kill Kabuto as well, then add in the fact Kabuto doesn't have Kaiten or the Byakugan.....you're point becomes mute. Kimimaro could be calling Kabuto sensei, since Kabuto is the one trying to heal him, and that he works directly under Orochimaru. He still may not be a Jounin.
Have u seen Kabuto's full strength? I think we have enuff resources to see if Kabuto has the strength to beat Kidomaru or Kakashi or any jounin for that fact. But he is stonger then a Genin that is for sure.
Except in a particular set of events and unpredictable (yet) circumstances due to storyline reasons, Kabuto would most than probably crush Neji.
Rank is a poor judge of strength. We've already seen that there isn't as large as gap as we thought between genin and jounin.
First example was Haku and Zabuza. Zabuza clearly states that Haku would give Kakashi a tougher time than himself.
If you get trapped in a jutsu like Demonic Ice Mirrors... it's not like you can just say... "but wait, I'm a jounin" and get out of it...
So anyhow, rank means absolute crap.
Another example would be Kimi. Kabuto (or was it Oro) clearly states that no one can beat Kimi... I assume that includes Kabuto himself.
So yeah, the divide isn't as great as y'all would like to think.
Also remember that after chuunin exam, Genma told Sasuke that he was already chuunin strength... and that was BEFORE curse seal level 2... and BEFORE 3-dot Sharingan.
If he was chuunin level before... he's gotta be pretty damn near Jounin level now. Which Naruto should be around that level as well... just with more holes in his logic creating more weaknesses and openings for an opponent. But yeah, going by logic, Sasuke should be Jounin strength now if he was already chuunin strength after exam.
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Now that that's out of the way... I do think Kabuto will win. Kabuto outsmarted Kakashi badly... and although we haven't seen too much of his strengths other than regeneration and some poor taijutsu (he himself admits he is poor at taijutsu)... it's Kabuto's superior intelligence that will pull him through.
vega98767
2004-10-08, 12:42
If he was chuunin level before... he's gotta be pretty damn near Jounin level now. Which Naruto should be around that level as well... just with more holes in his logic creating more weaknesses and openings for an opponent. But yeah, going by logic, Sasuke should be Jounin strength now if he was already chuunin strength after exam.
You don't know this. Who knows if Kakashi can do 5 Chidoris in one sitting and who knows what else he can do. The gap between Chuunin and Jounin can be quite large. Sasuke hasn't shown me anything new and Naruto althoug he did learn how to do Rasengan he can't do it without a clone helping him (well at least). I don't think Sasuke or Naruto would have a good chance at beating Kabuto or Kakashi. The only reason Kabuto lost to Naruto was that he took Naruto for granted which resulted in his punch getting caught and even then he practically killed Naruto. Like i said before i don't know the extent of Kabutos power but im sure he has something up his sleeve that would result in him beating Neji.
Nine Devil
2004-10-08, 13:04
Kabuto would just CRUSH Neji
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-08, 13:09
You don't know this. Who knows if Kakashi can do 5 Chidoris in one sitting and who knows what else he can do.
We know kakashi can do 4 chidoris in a day b/c he says it himself when he was teaching sasuke about it.
The gap between Chuunin and Jounin can be quite large. Sasuke hasn't shown me anything new and Naruto althoug he did learn how to do Rasengan he can't do it without a clone helping him (well at least).
Naruto made a one handed rasengan all by himself in the last couple chapter of manga.
I don't think Sasuke or Naruto would have a good chance at beating Kabuto or Kakashi. The only reason Kabuto lost to Naruto was that he took Naruto for granted which resulted in his punch getting caught and even then he practically killed Naruto.
Naruto's new found kyuubi powers has a really good chance beating kabuto. As far as we have seen kabuto is a close range medic nin. Sasuke with his 3-dot sharingan couldn't predict what would naruto do than I would say that kabuto has no chance in hell trying to avoid naruto's chakra attacks or getting close enough to land one of the deadly hits on his heart/nervous system. Also naruto can summon gamabunta who would just sit on kabuto :D
As for sasuke, he can see exactly where kabuto is going and predict where he will be so all sasuke has to do is turn on CSL 2, sharingan and powerup a chidori and blow up kabuto's head when he tries to attack him :P
Like i said before i don't know the extent of Kabutos power but im sure he has something up his sleeve that would result in him beating Neji.
I am pretty sure we have already seen everything there is to kabuto.
Sorry to burst ppl's bubble but kabuto isn't a double spy with his own agenda or the leader of akatsuki.
Forgot to say that kabuto and neji fight can go either way since they are both mainly taijutsu fighters. We have yet to see neji and kabuto use any ninjutsu.
Kabuto would just CRUSH Neji
True. It's that simple. Yet some guys are so... :bash:
Now who said Kidoumaru would beat Kabuto? Sure thing...I guess you just don't want to understand the different power level.
Nine Devil
2004-10-08, 14:45
Naruto made a one handed rasengan all by himself in the last couple chapter of manga.
A fucking full powered Kyubi-Naruto which basicly never would appear again.Well for some time.
hokagenaruto3
2004-10-08, 14:58
I hope Kyuubi wil have him healed by the next chapter and Naruto will we up and running again. Maybe we'll see his powers again against "the new guy".
<Manga readers will understand.>
Nolan Void
2004-10-08, 14:59
Kabuto is a sound jounin. Why dou you think Kimimaro calls him sensei?
Now...what happened in the Hyuga fight? The jounins jumped in and everyone could see the huge difference between genin and jounin. Kidoumaru nearly killed Neji...if you think Kabuto couldn't kick Neji's ass then you really missed something.
Kabuto is called sensei because hes a doctor.... sensei is a title for anyone of upper status, doctors, lawyers... teachers
hokagenaruto3
2004-10-08, 15:08
So it doesn't mean teacher? i thought Sama was someone of higher status.
:eyespin: japanese sure is hard to learn.
CyberPunk
2004-10-08, 15:11
i see naruto sleeping for a good while after the current manga event. i mean, relying on kyuubi just to summon gama bunta for the first time exhausted him enough to land him in the hospital for 3 days. he just went balls to the wall, so i can't see him possibly healing up in one day.
Genei Killua
2004-10-08, 15:29
There are a lot of spoilers in here. Mayhaps you folks should clean them up. They are very very very revealing.
hokagenaruto3
2004-10-08, 15:44
naruto NEVER needs more than 1 day to recover. he said it himself.
But in this case, he didn't really get hit by Sasuke. He didn't have mortal wounds or anything, he was just exhausted, but being a stamina freak, he should be up and running again. if they are going to fight "the guy" he'd better.
rorosama
2004-10-08, 16:23
The simple fact is that kabuto is at jounin level and neji is at chuunin level fighter but still a genin. Kabuto is a smart one as else who survived a fight with tsunade. So how the hell could he beat neji. Now hiashi against kabuto would be one to debate.
CyberPunk
2004-10-08, 16:25
naruto NEVER needs more than 1 day to recover. he said it himself.
But in this case, he didn't really get hit by Sasuke. He didn't have mortal wounds or anything, he was just exhausted, but being a stamina freak, he should be up and running again. if they are going to fight "the guy" he'd better.
he was in the hospital sleeping for 3 days after he summoned gamabunta.
This is NOT a manga thread guys. Use spoiler tags. Doesn't anyone read the rules?
Yakushi-san
2004-10-08, 16:33
naruto NEVER needs more than 1 day to recover. he said it himself.
But in this case, he didn't really get hit by Sasuke. He didn't have mortal wounds or anything, he was just exhausted, but being a stamina freak, he should be up and running again. if they are going to fight "the guy" he'd better.
Didn't Naruto take 3 days to recover after playing "king of the biggest damn frog in the whole world" with Gamabunta?
Nine Devil
2004-10-08, 16:41
naruto NEVER needs more than 1 day to recover. he said it himself.
But in this case, he didn't really get hit by Sasuke. He didn't have mortal wounds or anything, he was just exhausted, but being a stamina freak, he should be up and running again. if they are going to fight "the guy" he'd better.
He actually said almost everytime 1 day was enough..
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It seems like when he overdoses on his kyuubi power (summoning gama for the first time and holding onto him) - he needs a little longer to rest. and he definitely overdosed on it in these last chapters of the manga
Could be wrong tho.*
(hrm, I've noticed I always say that at the end of my posts.. it means I'm open ot others' ideas :innocent: )
Yakushi-san
2004-10-08, 16:43
Yeah, that's what it seems like to me too, kboykb.
and shay, i like your avatar. is there a bigger version?
Too many spoilers....Can't participate....In....Thread.....anymore. But Kabuto would make Neji his bitch.
http://img54.exs.cx/img54/1334/kjopi.jpg
CyberPunk
2004-10-08, 18:21
awesome, thanks a bunch.
Have u seen Kabuto's full strength? I think we have enuff resources to see if Kabuto has the strength to beat Kidomaru or Kakashi or any jounin for that fact. But he is stonger then a Genin that is for sure.
So how exactly would Kabuto dodge Kidoumaru's "110% MAX ACCURACY!!" swirly arrow, hell any of those arrows? Hmmm, how about when Kidoumaru's spider grab your legs so you can't move. Or when he uses his webbing.....When Kabuto uses his chakra scalpels....Kidoumaru could always excret that steel hard layer over his skin....which would put Kabuto at a HUGE disadvantage
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-08, 19:08
A fucking full powered Kyubi-Naruto which basicly never would appear again.Well for some time.
No need to swear. As for naruto not being able to do the one handed rasengan again for some time is highly debatable. It has been stated in the manga that kyubi only provides the chakra and nothing more. As a matter of fact kyubi is the reason why naruto has a really hard time controlling his chakra.
Sorry guys for not putting spoiler tags on :(
lotus_lee
2004-10-08, 19:20
Argh...I hate these 'vs threads'. IMO, Kabuto would beat Neji. Not only does he seem more powerful but he is smarter, hence why he is a Jounin. Neji is a genius and would beat (almost) everyone at Genin level (with his excellent Jounin-level chakra contro)l, maybe even kick a few generic Chunnin ass but against a Jounin? I don't think so. It takes a lot to become a Jounin and not is something that can be gained by power alone.
BrownRukus
2004-10-08, 19:25
So how exactly would Kabuto dodge Kidoumaru's "110% MAX ACCURACY!!" swirly arrow, hell any of those arrows? Hmmm, how about when Kidoumaru's spider grab your legs so you can't move. Or when he uses his webbing.....When Kabuto uses his chakra scalpels....Kidoumaru could always excret that steel hard layer over his skin....which would put Kabuto at a HUGE disadvantage
[OUOTE=BrownRukus]Have u seen Kabuto's full strength? I think we have enuff resources to see if Kabuto has the strength to beat Kidomaru or Kakashi or any jounin for that fact. But he is stonger then a Genin that is for sure.[/QUOTE]
MY BAD FUCK U TYPO
supposesd to say "I think we DON'T have enuff resources to see if Kabuto
Nolan Void
2004-10-08, 20:00
So it doesn't mean teacher? i thought Sama was someone of higher status.
:eyespin: japanese sure is hard to learn.
it LITERALLY means "one who has come before"
there are MANY titles and honorifics, its mainly about knowing WHEN one may apply, in different circumstances you might apply and one of four(or more!) different honorifics.
Knowing the rarely used ones, will get an eyebrow raised at you and a grin, usually.
like , Yan for example... its like a more relaxed version of San.
Nolan Void
2004-10-09, 10:28
try this
it's helped me a LOT
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/grammar/1.htm
hokagenaruto3
2004-10-09, 18:26
Thanks dude!! Ohh man, excatly what I was looking for!
winson604
2004-10-09, 20:48
no doubt kabuto will just own neji. come on now seriously they arn't even on the same level
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-09, 20:55
no doubt kabuto will just own neji. come on now seriously they arn't even on the same level
Just to let you know, levels don't mean anything in naruto. A really good case in point would be haku. Zabuza said that he would give kakashi way better fight than zabuza himself.
As for kabuto owning neji is a longshot if you really think that they are both close range fighters. Neji has a distinct adv over anyone that is fighting close range against him.
vega98767
2004-10-09, 22:33
Just to let you know, levels don't mean anything in naruto. A really good case in point would be haku. Zabuza said that he would give kakashi way better fight than zabuza himself.
As for kabuto owning neji is a longshot if you really think that they are both close range fighters. Neji has a distinct adv over anyone that is fighting close range against him.
I find the whole Haku/Zabusa thing a bad example because i don't remember them saying what rank Zabuza was and Haku never even went to ninja school so he never got ranked, he could have been Jounin or Chuunin material. And this is a bad example on my part but would you think Nej can beat Tsunade becasue rank means nothing? Rank has to mean something especially if you are talking from Chuunin to someone who is to be equal to Kakashi. And one way Kabuto can beat Neji is since he can regenerate quickly he just keeps rushing Neji and Neji is forced to "Kaiten" and just wears himself out and Kabuto goes in for the kill.
Why would Neji Kaiten someone who's rushing in hand to hand, when Neji is a Taijutsu genius, it would just be easier for him to kick the person's ass. Also there's a limit to how much Kabuto can regenerate. If Neji gets one goood shot the Kabuto's heart or brain, I don't care if he has senzuu beans........it's over.
Last of the Uchiha
2004-10-09, 22:54
Why would Neji Kaiten someone who's rushing in hand to hand, when Neji is a Taijutsu genius, it would just be easier for him to kick the person's ass. Also there's a limit to how much Kabuto can regenerate. If Neji gets one goood shot the Kabuto's heart or brain, I don't care if he has senzuu beans........it's over.
True, but it depends in who is that someone. Is it was any genin or chunin, then there is no need to use Kaiten first, because his taijutsu will finish the job. That doesn't apply against Jounins. Kabuto has many more years of experience over neji and know many jutsus to make Neji lose balance and killed him.
Neji's turf is Taijutsu and his is a genius in this department, but he can be beaten at his own game, specially against someone like Kabuto. Chakra scapel > Neji taijutsu.
True, but it depends in who is that someone. Is it was any genin or chunin, then there is no need to use Kaiten first, because his taijutsu will finish the job. That doesn't apply against Jounins. Kabuto has many more years of experience over neji and know many jutsus to make Neji lose balance and killed him.
Neji's turf is Taijutsu and his is a genius in this department, but he can be beaten at his own game, specially against someone like Kabuto. Chakra scapel > Neji taijutsu.
While true about the Chakra scalpel, closed tenketsu > Chakra Scalpel
Phantom Blade
2004-10-09, 23:43
Like i said before i don't know the extent of Kabutos power but im sure he has something up his sleeve that would result in him beating Neji.
i think we've seen the best kabuto can do. I dont know why everyone's argument is that we havent even seen kabuto's TRUE POWERS. Do you think someone whos been told that he is only at kakashi's level would go "easy" on a sannin? Especially a person who can kill an army with one punch.
aFlipGuy
2004-10-10, 00:04
kabuto would own neji no doubt
strenght alone wont automatically hand you the fight.
i'm assuming kabuto has other tricks than that chakra scaple and i'm sure he has something to go around neji's kaiten.
i think we've seen the best kabuto can do. I dont know why everyone's argument is that we havent even seen kabuto's TRUE POWERS. Do you think someone whos been told that he is only at kakashi's level would go "easy" on a sannin? Especially a person who can kill an army with one punch.
Woah, I was one of those people who though Kabuto still had hidden secrets until you mentioned that lol. View has changed alot
Last of the Uchiha
2004-10-10, 00:41
While true about the Chakra scalpel, closed tenketsu > Chakra Scalpel
Don't get me wrong, the Hyuuga taijutsus is unmatched, there is no doubt about that, but when used against someone of a higher level it won't be as effective against someone of your own level or a little above. In order for Neji to closed Kabuto's tenketsu, he will have to connect more than ten times. Kabuto knows almost every nin's powers, and i have no doubt that he knows about Neji, not to mention that he was also present in the fight with Naruto vs. Neji. He knows that he can't be hit a few times because that would be the end for him. Kabuto might sacrificed a couple of closed tenketsu, but at the same time cutting any muscles, organs, tissues and cells of Neji along the way. Specially cutting his source of chakra to his hands, where Neji gathers and projects chakra in order to closed tenketsu.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-10, 12:18
Don't get me wrong, the Hyuuga taijutsus is unmatched, there is no doubt about that, but when used against someone of a higher level it won't be as effective against someone of your own level or a little above. In order for Neji to closed Kabuto's tenketsu, he will have to connect more than ten times.
Byakugan gives a 359 degree vision so if a hyuuga is fast enough to see the enemy than he can counter the enemy. This is like a basic sharingan deal where the user can see where the enemy is going to be and where he is attacking. Using just about any kind of taijutsu against a fast hyuuga clan member is useless.
Kabuto knows almost every nin's powers, and i have no doubt that he knows about Neji, not to mention that he was also present in the fight with Naruto vs. Neji. He knows that he can't be hit a few times because that would be the end for him. Kabuto might sacrificed a couple of closed tenketsu, but at the same time cutting any muscles, organs, tissues and cells of Neji along the way. Specially cutting his source of chakra to his hands, where Neji gathers and projects chakra in order to closed tenketsu.
Kabuto thinks too highly of himself as far as we have seen and if he goes in the battle thinking he is gonna crush neji like he did during naruto fight than neji would kill him within a few min. of the fight's start. Sure, I agree that kabuto knows just about everything about neji except for the 1 degree that the byakugan eyes can't see but this weakness won't matter since kabuto doesn't know about it and he isn't a marksman or a ranged fighter like kidoumaru. He also only uses taijutsus/medic nin abilities during his fights. All neji has to do to completely screw over kabuto is seal the tenketsus in kabuto's hands. This can be easily done since kabuto would be attacking with his chakra scaples. Also if neji can dodge arrows and kunais thrown by kidoumaru from hitting his vitals than he can dodge kabuto's scaples :p
As for ppl thinking that kabuto still has hidden stuff to show us than you guys should explain why he didn't show it to us when he and orochimaru almost died in the sannin/big boss fight.
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:hmm: Is this a manga thread? :twitch:
Put some spoiler tags in there! :uhoh:
Even if you were to close a few tenketsus, it might be enough. Like kazumaofshellbullet said, if you can get two or three in the arms, then it would pretty much neutralize Kabuto's chakra scalpel, wouldn't it?
Get a few in the legs, neutralize speed.
Shutting down a few pathways here and there could limit the amount of chakra that Kabuto could use - like cutting a eight lane highway down to three.
The Hyuuga style can still cause damage to the inner organs even without hitting the opening points by pushing chakra into your opponent. Hinata uses this 'unrefined' style.
Kabuto could easily get the win by using some of his formidable genjutsu.
Kakashi said that he wasn't good enough because Kabuto outsmarted him. I didn't see any 'OMG r0x0rz pwnage' going on there.
ninraven
2004-10-11, 02:57
try this
it's helped me a LOT
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/grammar/1.htm
Just wanted to say thanks for that link.
Yakushi-san
2004-10-11, 05:42
A great 'thank you' from over here too! Great site.
hokagenaruto3
2004-10-11, 06:16
Every narutofan should use that link I tell yaz
Remember when Neji tried to kill Hinata? He was up to his neck in Jounins before he could react. That's the type of speed that Jounins operate on. The fight goes somewhere like this.
*Starting Bell Rings*
Neji activates Byakugan.
Before Neji can finish activating his Byakugan, Kabuto is already standing behind him, slicing his spinal cord with chakara scaples.
Average length of fight: 0.2 seconds.
i am sure that this fight would be a suprise for all, maybe Kabuto wins the fight but
Neji is not weak it wouldn't suprise me when he wins the fight and i also were hope that he will win it.
Perhabs we see a fight like this in the manga first.
BrownRukus
2004-10-12, 13:34
Ok, so u guys don't belive in ranks..
But look at it this way, He is Orchimaru's right hand-man. Orchimaru wouldn't choose a person who is weaker then a mere gennin or a chunnin.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-12, 14:05
Remember when Neji tried to kill Hinata? He was up to his neck in Jounins before he could react. That's the type of speed that Jounins operate on. The fight goes somewhere like this.
*Starting Bell Rings*
Neji activates Byakugan.
Before Neji can finish activating his Byakugan, Kabuto is already standing behind him, slicing his spinal cord with chakara scaples.
Average length of fight: 0.2 seconds.
Jounins aren't gods compared to genins and as far as we have seen most of konoha jounins are quite weak compared to the current crop of genins when you compare their ranks and power. We have seen plenty of fights where genins and chuunins are more than capable to kill their jounin opponents.
Best example about ranks don't mean crap is haku who had no rank but had enough skills to kill kakashi and zabuza if he wanted to.
Jounins aren't gods compared to genins and as far as we have seen most of konoha jounins are quite weak compared to the current crop of genins when you compare their ranks and power. We have seen plenty of fights where genins and chuunins are more than capable to kill their jounin opponents.
Best example about ranks don't mean crap is haku who had no rank but had enough skills to kill kakashi and zabuza if he wanted to.
I'm wondering if Haku really could have done that. He seemed to be having quite a bit of trouble hitting Sasuke until he went for the unconcious Naruto. Kakashi and Sasuke both had Sharingans, and Zabuza could have simply blinded Haku with mist. Haku was also a ninja who most likely would have had some sort of rank (possibly chuunin or jounin had he not been in service of a missing nin from a young age.
Most of the fights we've seen have been genin vs. genin or genin vs. chuunin. Very rarely have we seen them ever fight jounin aside from the Haku vs. Sasuke/Naruto, the Kabuto fight, that fight where Shino was about to eat it to that sand jounin and one later fight. From what we have seen so far, most of the higher level jounin classed ninja's completely outrank all the genin under normal circumstances, and Kabuto is up there in that ranking (though I don't think he's ever been called a jounin at all, people just consider him that powerful to be up there with Kakashi and the other higher-tier jounin of the series.)
Why would Neji Kaiten someone who's rushing in hand to hand, when Neji is a Taijutsu genius, it would just be easier for him to kick the person's ass. Also there's a limit to how much Kabuto can regenerate. If Neji gets one goood shot the Kabuto's heart or brain, I don't care if he has senzuu beans........it's over.
I agree with this.
It's more a matter of style. If we use what we've seen Kabuto do and what we've seen Neji, I'd say Kabuto would be at a disadvantage. All Neji does is hand to hand combat. That's all. His skill in that area is incredible. I don't think Kabuto is on that level of specialization in hand to hand. So unless Kabuto has some form of long range attack, he's gonna get his butt kicked. Well.... it'll be close, but I think Neji would win in the end.
Let's not forget, that even Naruto got a hit in on Kabuto, and Naruto certainly isn't as good at hand to hand as Neji.
And on the topic of rank... Kabuto took down Tsunade.
Rank doesn't mean everything.
Naruto: Hey you! you're confiden't with close range fighting right?
Neji: Huh?.... :twitch:
Naruto: Arrrgghhhhhh!
Neji=Owned.
Or something along those lines. :)
CyberPunk
2004-10-12, 17:41
shay has the best images on this board. period.
Naruto: Hey you! you're confiden't with close range fighting right?
Neji: Huh?.... :twitch:
Naruto: Arrrgghhhhhh!
Neji=Owned.
Or something along those lines. :)
you do know that in that fight naruto only hit neji once (in the anime)
i think neji put up a good fight with kyuubi powered naruto
UserName
2004-10-12, 19:26
I'd think Kabuto will win... by a long shot. He is just too smart, Neji is one of the smartest genin but Kabuto completely outsmarted Kakashi. He's very crafty and 1 attack can really damage you.
I don't think Neji stands a chance.
I see it this way - yes if Neji gets one good shot to the heart or brain hitting an important Tenketsu (like Hiashi did on the lightning ninja) - then it's over..
But can't the same be said for Kabuto? If he gets one good shot on the brain or heart, or even the chest it's over. Even though the gentle fist and chakra scalpel are different, in the end both of them pretty much injure internal organs.
But yeh, I wonder how Orochimaru would feel if his prized right hand man was taken down by a "genius" genin (who's chuunin level)? It just doesn't seem realistic to me - Neji beating Kabuto.
While elite Gennin can match or overpower some Chuunin in certain areas, I think that there's going to be vast differences between Chuunin and Genin for the most part. Look at the way the exam works. While Naruto would be able to overwhelm Iraka with his 9 Tails power, what do you think would happen if Naruto would have opened the scroll early?
Veteran Chuunin are likely going to have a wide array of abilities outside their specialties that should often be able to give them the edge. A ninja in his early twenties won't be a prodigy like many of the genins in the show, but he will have almost a decade of experience. Without the natural talent for the high level jutsu's, he'd likely have a large number of techniques in many different areas, not to mention lessons that only experience can teach.
Think of it like this:
Elite Gennin:
XXXXX
X
X
Normal Chuunin:
XXX
XXX
XXX
Remember when Neji tried to kill Hinata? He was up to his neck in Jounins before he could react. That's the type of speed that Jounins operate on. The fight goes somewhere like this.
*Starting Bell Rings*
Neji activates Byakugan.
Before Neji can finish activating his Byakugan, Kabuto is already standing behind him, slicing his spinal cord with chakara scaples.
Average length of fight: 0.2 seconds.
However,
• Gai - combat Jounin.
• Kakashi - combat Jounin.
• Kurenai - ???
• Kabuto - combat SUPPORT Jounin, not meant for fighting. Best strengths include battle strategy and genjutsu.
Is he as fast as everyone else? I haven't seen any indication he can match Neji's hand speed in taijutsu.
CyberPunk
2004-10-12, 23:50
he went head to head with tsunade, and before that, he got away from kakashi in the hospital. i'm sure he's fast enough.
Lazy Shadow
2004-10-13, 00:09
Erm Kurenai = Genjutsu Jounin, She Likes To Make People Hallucinate XD.
More Onto The Point, I Don't Give A Crap What You Any Of You Say, (Except For The People Supporting Me :P), Kabuto Would Have Neji's Head On A Pike And Later, On Display In Orochimaru's Scary Little Room With The Hand With The Ring On It.
But I Digress, The Fact That The Ninjas Trained In The Few Years Mounting Up To The Third's Death All Seem To Have One Thing In Common, And That Is That They Are Freakishly Strong... This May Be Because The Third Managed To Lace The Cookies They Were Givin As Children With Steroids. This Task, Of Course, Would Be No Problem For Someone Hailed As The God Of All Ninja...
Regardless Of The Amount Of Steroids Neji Had Pumped Into His Body As An Infant, He Would Not Be Able To Beat Someone With, Not Only, Many More Years Of Experience, But A Category Of Attack Which Seems To Be On The Same Level As Neji's If Not Greater.
Kamui4356
2004-10-13, 00:14
I'm wondering if Haku really could have done that. He seemed to be having quite a bit of trouble hitting Sasuke until he went for the unconcious Naruto. Kakashi and Sasuke both had Sharingans, and Zabuza could have simply blinded Haku with mist. Haku was also a ninja who most likely would have had some sort of rank (possibly chuunin or jounin had he not been in service of a missing nin from a young age.)
I know it's off topic, but zabuza recruited Haku before he left the village. Chapter 29 page 13 shows Zabuza and haku looking back at mist village as they were leaving following the failed coup. Haku was a 'real' ninja, and he had a rank. Just because the manga failed to mention what rank he actually was, doesn't mean he didn't have one.
Remember when Neji tried to kill Hinata? He was up to his neck in Jounins before he could react. That's the type of speed that Jounins operate on. The fight goes somewhere like this.
*Starting Bell Rings*
Neji activates Byakugan.
Before Neji can finish activating his Byakugan, Kabuto is already standing behind him, slicing his spinal cord with chakara scaples.
Average length of fight: 0.2 seconds.
two thing wrong
1. We have NEVER seen Kabuto move that fast. You can't base the speed of one person you nkow nothing about, off the speed other someone else.
2. If you look at both the manga and anime, Neji and Hinata only had a few feet between them, yet it shows Neji "running" for a good few seconds (and ironically the distance between Neji and Hinata was lengthened, even though a few seconds before they were only a few feet from each other.) before the Jounins stop him from hitting Hinata, so using that as an example as Jounins being ungodly fast..........is just wrong, that was done for sake of story. I mean do you honestly think it takes Neji that long to take like two steps?
The sense of speed in the manga/anime isn't really correct anyways, some instances the characters are quick, then other times they're slow.
If you look at both the manga and anime, Neji and Hinata only had a few feet between them, yet it shows Neji "running" for a good few seconds (and ironically the distance between Neji and Hinata was lengthened, even though a few seconds before they were only a few feet from each other.) before the Jounins stop him from hitting Hinata, so using that as an example as Jounins being ungodly fast..........is just wrong, that was done for sake of story. I mean do you honestly think it takes Neji that long to take like two steps?
Acctually, looking at the anime, there were 3 of the exam room tiles apart, which (by the close up done) look about 6-1/2 feet long; so he runs a length of about 17 feet in those 'few' (it's acctually one) seconds.
You also have to take into consideration that the Anime slows things down for the benifet of the veiwer, so even though he seems to take a full second to cross that distance, it's acctually probably a LOT less, and the Jounins are MUCH faster because they not only move ahead of him, but manage to take the time to strike cool poses :p
Animizzle
2004-10-13, 05:19
Remember when Neji tried to kill Hinata? He was up to his neck in Jounins before he could react. That's the type of speed that Jounins operate on. The fight goes somewhere like this.
*Starting Bell Rings*
Neji activates Byakugan.
Before Neji can finish activating his Byakugan, Kabuto is already standing behind him, slicing his spinal cord with chakara scaples.
Average length of fight: 0.2 seconds.
In addition to raikage and ke0.
Kabuto said himself that he wasn't good at taijutsu.
Neji just happends to be a Taijutsu specialist. Neji also posses a considarable speed.
Also, Kabuto's attack are even visible with the nekkid eye, with the Byakugan it would be a dead giveaway.
Don't get me wrong, I think Kabuto would win. Just not in 0,2 second.
It would take a bit of a hassle.
vega98767
2004-10-13, 08:10
You make it seem like Neji is invincible. He may know the moves but hes still inexperienced while Kabuto is very smart and crafty. For all we know Kabuto can make Neji see something that kabuto wants him to see in order to make Neji use Kaiten or something like that then Kabuto goes into the ground, pops up, and disables his legs. Im not saying its very possible but just things like that separate Kabuto from Neji.
Yakushi-san
2004-10-13, 08:16
I'm sure Kabuto is very good with NinJutsu and GenJutsu since he said "i'm not very good with TaiJutsu".
Ninjutsu and Genjutsu on a high level is more than enough to defeat Neji. If not, Neji is unbeatable, which he is NOT!
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-13, 08:46
I know it's off topic, but zabuza recruited Haku before he left the village. Chapter 29 page 13 shows Zabuza and haku looking back at mist village as they were leaving following the failed coup. Haku was a 'real' ninja, and he had a rank. Just because the manga failed to mention what rank he actually was, doesn't mean he didn't have one.
We know that mist village hates everyone with a bloodline ability and haku barely survived the purge of everyone that had a bloodline ability. His parent(s) died this way if I am not mistaken and the ppl who were going around killing ppl with bloodline limits were actually mist ninjas. There is no way mist village is going to accept haku as a ninja from their village. As for the rank, all we know is that haku was trained to be a hunter nin by someone once zabuza took him in while he was plotting a coup.
BTW ppl shouldn't make assumptions about kabuto's abilities apart from what we have seen so far. Kabuto hasn't used one genjutsu or ninjutsu in all his fights and he has already said it himself that he isn't very good at taijutsu. If he is so good at either ninjutsu or genjutsu than he should have used it during the sannin fight when he almost got killed:heh:
Also I doubt kabuto has that much more experience than neji does in fighting considering the fact during the chuunin exam when he gave up, one of jounins told hokage that kabuto had never made it thru the written test for 7 years in a row so he has been a genin in konoha for 8 yrs. We all know just about how much fighting a genin gets into during his missions. He also can't leave the village to do missions for oro b/c than his cover as a spy would be blown.
Wrong. Kabuto always gave up at the 3rd stage of the exam...
He always came to the last stage, then gave up.
Genjitsu won't work on Neji.
BrownRukus
2004-10-13, 09:50
He is Orchimaru's right hand man, belive me, Orchimaru wouldn't have chosen a right hand man that was weaker than a gennin. Kabuto has seen all his attacks, and Neji has seen none. Ok Kabuto is not good at Taijutsu, but he'll just take food pills, and he won't overdose, medical nins know how to use stuff like that.
and what are teh odds of this fight happening?
BrownRukus
2004-10-13, 10:05
We know that mist village hates everyone with a bloodline ability and haku barely survived the purge of everyone that had a bloodline ability. His parent(s) died this way if I am not mistaken and the ppl who were going around killing ppl with bloodline limits were actually mist ninjas. There is no way mist village is going to accept haku as a ninja from their village. As for the rank, all we know is that haku was trained to be a hunter nin by someone once zabuza took him in while he was plotting a coup.
BTW ppl shouldn't make assumptions about kabuto's abilities apart from what we have seen so far. Kabuto hasn't used one genjutsu or ninjutsu in all his fights and he has already said it himself that he isn't very good at taijutsu. If he is so good at either ninjutsu or genjutsu than he should have used it during the sannin fight when he almost got killed:heh:
Also I doubt kabuto has that much more experience than neji does in fighting considering the fact during the chuunin exam when he gave up, one of jounins told hokage that kabuto had never made it thru the written test for 7 years in a row so he has been a genin in konoha for 8 yrs. We all know just about how much fighting a genin gets into during his missions. He also can't leave the village to do missions for oro b/c than his cover as a spy would be blown.
In teh Sannin fight, i don't see where u can come up with teh assumption of Kabuto almost being killed.....
He is Orchimaru's right hand man, belive me, Orchimaru wouldn't have chosen a right hand man that was weaker than a gennin. Kabuto has seen all his attacks, and Neji has seen none. Ok Kabuto is not good at Taijutsu, but he'll just take food pills, and he won't overdose, medical nins know how to use stuff like that.
and what are teh odds of this fight happening?
Naruto took him down....
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-13, 11:02
In teh Sannin fight, i don't see where u can come up with teh assumption of Kabuto almost being killed.....
If it wasn't for his regenerative abilities, naruto would have killed kabuto when he hit him with rasengan. Since he is a medic nin that doesn't matter but kabuto and oro got beat to a pulp once tsunade got over her fear of blood. If oro and kabuto had stayed their any longer than they would have been dead which is what I meant by almost being killed. At the end of the fight kabuto had almost 0 chakra left and oro was thoroughly beaten to s**t which is also the reason manda said that he was gonna eat oro and kabuto next time he sees them.
It's funny how ppl keep on saying that kabuto has some hidden super jutsus or is really good at ninjutsu/genjutsu which hasn't been revealed yet and they are basing their entire argument on kabuto crushing neji in a fight entirely on this reason. If he had anything left than he would have shown us b/c I am pretty sure that he wanted to win the fight pretty badly for oro.
Kabuto never passed the first exam his first seven years of taking the exam. His eigth year was the one when he got to third exam and quit. I don't have the manga on the pc I am on right now but once I get home, I will find out which chapter it was in and tell you where to look. Anyways as I said, kabuto doesn't have all that much experience fighting compared to neji as far as we have seen.
vega98767
2004-10-13, 11:59
If it wasn't for his regenerative abilities, naruto would have killed kabuto when he hit him with rasengan. Since he is a medic nin that doesn't matter but kabuto and oro got beat to a pulp once tsunade got over her fear of blood. If oro and kabuto had stayed their any longer than they would have been dead which is what I meant by almost being killed. At the end of the fight kabuto had almost 0 chakra left and oro was thoroughly beaten to s**t which is also the reason manda said that he was gonna eat oro and kabuto next time he sees them.
It's funny how ppl keep on saying that kabuto has some hidden super jutsus or is really good at ninjutsu/genjutsu which hasn't been revealed yet and they are basing their entire argument on kabuto crushing neji in a fight entirely on this reason. If he had anything left than he would have shown us b/c I am pretty sure that he wanted to win the fight pretty badly for oro.
Kabuto never passed the first exam his first seven years of taking the exam. His eigth year was the one when he got to third exam and quit. I don't have the manga on the pc I am on right now but once I get home, I will find out which chapter it was in and tell you where to look. Anyways as I said, kabuto doesn't have all that much experience fighting compared to neji as far as we have seen.
Yeah sure, Naruto beat Kabuto but Kabuto fought a Sannin, Tsunades pupil (forgot her name) and Naruto. And we can say that Naruto beat Neji but is he exactly better than Neji? Neji let his guard down which lead to his defeat and same with Kabuto. Kabuto had Naruto beat but took him lightly and still came out better than Naruto. Naruto stayed unconscious the whole fight and Kabuto came to sooner due to his regen. And to say Kabuto doesn't have as much experience fighting as Neji is pretty ignorant. Who does Neji fight besides rock lee and weak Ninja found on A rank missions? Im sure Kabuto has gone on different missions with Orochimaru and fought alot harder Ninjas than Neji did. And sure if Kabuto didn't have his regen he would have been killed but if naruto didn't have Kyubi he couldn't have survived Kabutos attack and possibly wouldn't have had enough endurance to do Rasengan to Kabuto so thats a mute point. Whats there not to see here? Kabuto is Orochimarus right hand man and referred to be equal to Kakashi, the great genius ninja. Although Neji is very impressive with his Byakugan and his Taijutsu skills Neji is still a Ninja in training. He doesn't have the experience or knowledge Kabuto does.
CyberPunk
2004-10-13, 12:14
Kabuto never passed the first exam his first seven years of taking the exam. His eigth year was the one when he got to third exam and quit. I don't have the manga on the pc I am on right now but once I get home, I will find out which chapter it was in and tell you where to look. Anyways as I said, kabuto doesn't have all that much experience fighting compared to neji as far as we have seen.
dude..holy shit. he was a spy for orochimaru gathering information. if you really think he couldn't pass that chuunin exam, you need your fucking head checked.
Jounins aren't gods compared to genins and as far as we have seen most of konoha jounins are quite weak compared to the current crop of genins when you compare their ranks and power. We have seen plenty of fights where genins and chuunins are more than capable to kill their jounin opponents.
Best example about ranks don't mean crap is haku who had no rank but had enough skills to kill kakashi and zabuza if he wanted to.Riiight. Are you saying that Neji is some kind of Haku-level being that can school Jounins?
Fact: Neji was blitxed by the entire Jounin squad. This includes Kurenai, who is a Genjutsu expert and not good at fighting.
Fact: Kabuto was able to score hits on Tsunade, a Sannin who kicked Naruto's ass with one finger. This is the same Naruto that beat the crap out of Neji.
Therefore: Kabuto is much MUCH faster than someone like Kurenai, and is therefore much much much much much much much much faster than Neji.
However, to humor you, name me once where a Genin (or Chuunin) beat a Jounin in a fair fight.
vega98767
2004-10-13, 13:05
Riiight. Are you saying that Neji is some kind of Haku-level being that can school Jounins?
Fact: Neji was blitxed by the entire Jounin squad. This includes Kurenai, who is a Genjutsu expert and not good at fighting.
Fact: Kabuto was able to score hits on Tsunade, a Sannin who kicked Naruto's ass with one finger. This is the same Naruto that beat the crap out of Neji.
Therefore: Kabuto is much MUCH faster than someone like Kurenai, and is therefore much much much much much much much much faster than Neji.
However, to humor you, name me once where a Genin (or Chuunin) beat a Jounin in a fair fight.
Well put. Even if Nejis Taijutsu skills are greater than Narutos i doubt he will be able to strike Tsunade as much as Kabuto did and Kabuto isn't even that good at Taijutsu. This shows that Nejis speed and skill does not equal Kabutos.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-13, 13:33
And to say Kabuto doesn't have as much experience fighting as Neji is pretty ignorant. Who does Neji fight besides rock lee and weak Ninja found on A rank missions? Im sure Kabuto has gone on different missions with Orochimaru and fought alot harder Ninjas than Neji did.
You are pretty ignorant to think that kabuto has actually gone on dif mission with oro when you don't know anything. I already told you that he failed 7 times deliberately and pulled out of the third part of the chuunin exam during his 8th time taking the exam. Kabuto graduated at the age of 12 and we can safely assume that he has been in konoha for atleast 10 yrs. We also know that he can't leave konoha without anyone noticing. It's not like everyone in konoha is stupid morons that they wouldn't notice kabuto missing for a week while he is doing a mission with oro and comes back like nothing happened.
And sure if Kabuto didn't have his regen he would have been killed but if naruto didn't have Kyubi he couldn't have survived Kabutos attack and possibly wouldn't have had enough endurance to do Rasengan to Kabuto so thats a mute point. Whats there not to see here? Kabuto is Orochimarus right hand man and referred to be equal to Kakashi, the great genius ninja. Although Neji is very impressive with his Byakugan and his Taijutsu skills Neji is still a Ninja in training. He doesn't have the experience or knowledge Kabuto does.
I admitted in my last post that since he is a medic nin, it's one of his strengths to heal while he is wounded. It doesn't seem to me that you are even trying to understand what I am saying. I specifically said that he was out of chakra and if he was such a damn expert at ninjutsu or genjutsu than he would have used it to save himself and oro from tsunade and jiraiya. I would agree with you that neji is a taijutsu expert and he is impressive with byakugan and that he is still training. I also agree that kabuto has more knowledge than neiji. Neji's strength is close range fighting and from what we have seen kabuto isn't all that good in close range combat.
Riiight. Are you saying that Neji is some kind of Haku-level being that can school Jounins?
Fact: Neji was blitxed by the entire Jounin squad. This includes Kurenai, who is a Genjutsu expert and not good at fighting.
Never said that neji is a haku lvl ninja so don't assume. Every style of fighting in narutoverse has its strength and weakness against other styles of fighting. BTW neji got blitzed by the jounin squad during the chuunin exam. I am talking neji with his current skills who is fast enough to avoid the most deadly of attacks from hitting his vitals which he can't see.
Like when he avoided kidoumaru's sure shot 110% accuracy arrow with maximum destructive capability in the manga.
Also did I mention that neji was able to keep up with rock lee's super human speed and said that the only thing he was surprised about lee was when he used the 5-gate lotus. If neji can keep up with that speed than, he can sure as hell use his byakugan and kaiten combo to have a perfect defense.
Fact: Kabuto was able to score hits on Tsunade, a Sannin who kicked Naruto's ass with one finger. This is the same Naruto that beat the crap out of Neji.
Therefore: Kabuto is much MUCH faster than someone like Kurenai, and is therefore much much much much much much much much faster than Neji.
Naruto didn't beat the crap out of neji. Naruto got a whole one uppercut thru that entire fight against neji while neji gave a beating to naruto and destroyed all the kage bunshins without any effort. Only reason naruto won was b/c kyubi's chakra opened up his closed tenketsus.
However, to humor you, name me once where a Genin (or Chuunin) beat a Jounin in a fair fight.
Sound 4 beat up genma and the other jounin when they fought in like 2 minutes :p
Sound 4 beat up genma and the other jounin when they fought in like 2 minutes :p
Not a Fair Fight.
The 2 special jounins were low on chakra from the just passing war, and they still pretty much tired the crap out of 4 CS L2 Chuunins.
:eyebrow:
vega98767
2004-10-13, 14:09
I admitted in my last post that since he is a medic nin, it's one of his strengths to heal while he is wounded. It doesn't seem to me that you are even trying to understand what I am saying. I specifically said that he was out of chakra and if he was such a damn expert at ninjutsu or genjutsu than he would have used it to save himself and oro from tsunade and jiraiya. I would agree with you that neji is a taijutsu expert and he is impressive with byakugan and that he is still training. I also agree that kabuto has more knowledge than neiji. Neji's strength is close range fighting and from what we have seen kabuto isn't all that good in close range combat.
Kabuto, a guy who isn't good at Taijutsu, struck Tsunade who is good at Taijutsu on numerous occasions. Does this not mean anything to the Neji fanboys? If Kabuto can put himself in a situation where he is not his strongest and against a Sannin and come out the way he did then id say hes a pretty damn good ninja. So either according to Kazumaofshellbullet that Neji could do a better job against Tsunade because he is better than Kabuto at Taijutsu or its that Kabuto knows how to handle himself against different styles of Ninja and opponents.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-13, 14:26
Not a Fair Fight.
The 2 special jounins were low on chakra from the just passing war, and they still pretty much tired the crap out of 4 CS L2 Chuunins.
:eyebrow:
Ninjas are suppose to finish their mission and it doesn't matter how they go about doing it. It doesn't matter if they had low chakra or not b/c in the end all that matters is that the jounins are got beat by 4 chuunins.
Kabuto, a guy who isn't good at Taijutsu, struck Tsunade who is good at Taijutsu on numerous occasions. Does this not mean anything to the Neji fanboys? If Kabuto can put himself in a situation where he is not his strongest and against a Sannin and come out the way he did then id say hes a pretty damn good ninja. So either according to Kazumaofshellbullet that Neji could do a better job against Tsunade because he is better than Kabuto at Taijutsu or its that Kabuto knows how to handle himself against different styles of Ninja and opponents.
Nowhere in the manga does it state that tsunade is good in taijutsu. She has unbeatable strength compared to all the ninjas we have seen so far. Tsunade's specialty is suppose to be medical field just like kabuto not taijutsu.
Never said that neji is a haku lvl ninja so don't assume. Every style of fighting in narutoverse has its strength and weakness against other styles of fighting. BTW neji got blitzed by the jounin squad during the chuunin exam. I am talking neji with his current skills who is fast enough to avoid the most deadly of attacks from hitting his vitals which he can't see.
Like when he avoided kidoumaru's sure shot 110% accuracy arrow with maximum destructive capability in the manga. Evidence that Neji has gotten significantly faster since the Chuunin Exam (instead of, say, spending three weeks in bed)
Also did I mention that neji was able to keep up with rock lee's super human speed and said that the only thing he was surprised about lee was when he used the 5-gate lotus. If neji can keep up with that speed than, he can sure as hell use his byakugan and kaiten combo to have a perfect defense.If he's that fast, then how come Kurenai was able to grab his leg? He didn't even have a chance to react before he was draped by Jounin.
We don't know hown fast Kabuto is compared with Lee, but we DO know how fast Neji is compared with Kurenai the Genjutsu Specialist. That puts Neji WAY above even the slowest Jounin.
Naruto didn't beat the crap out of neji.Which is why Naruto went on after the fight to take on Garaa in a confrontation that made the Neji fight look like a warmup in comparison, while Neji lies beaten to a pulp on ah ospital bed? Naruto beat Neji, and the fact that he used Kyuubi is supremely irrelavent.
Unless, of course, you're saying that Naruto can beat Tsunade if he had used his Kyuubi power.
Sound 4 beat up genma and the other jounin when they fought in like 2 minutes :pFour vs. Two, and the two were tired?
You don't seem to understand the term "Fair fight", though with your debating "tactic" a possibility is that you use some diffrent system of math than everyone else.
Ninjas are suppose to finish their mission and it doesn't matter how they go about doing it. It doesn't matter if they had low chakra or not b/c in the end all that matters is that the jounins are got beat by 4 chuunins.
Err.. so how about this, when Kabuto put blood on Tsunade, she was terrified. He didn't even have to try anymore, he just walked up to her and kicked her.
So by this logic, if Sakura walked up to Tsunade while she was on the floor shaking from her hematophobia and stabbed her in the head with a kunai - even though it would be a victory, doesn't make it a fair fight.
:dots:
But c'est la vie. I'm off to Atlanta for the weekend, w00t.
Hideki Keiji
2004-10-13, 16:31
We don't know hown fast Kabuto is compared with Lee, but we DO know how fast Neji is compared with Kurenai the Genjutsu Specialist. That puts Neji WAY above even the slowest Jounin.
You meant "That puts Kabuto WAY above even the slowest Jounin", right?
Kurenai is a Genjusu Specialist, and Kabuto is a Medical Specialist. I'd say that Kurenai and Kabuto are probably very similar in regards to taijutsu ability, with Kabuto being equal in terms of speed. However, Kurenai is fast enough to dodge a blow from Itachi(who probably wasn't trying very hard) while Kabuto hasn't shown any great speed at all. Depictions of speed in Naruto are not consistent so this is inconclusive.
I'm not trying to say Neji would win, but Kabuto hasn't show himself to be all that fast, yet.
Ok...Some people still seem to think that Neji could beat Kabuto (In a fair and square fight) No surprises, no ifs, no buts, just a one on one battle. You all need your heads checking!.
I’m going to say this as simple as I can. Kabuto is J-o-u-n-i-n level, Neji is C-h-u-n-i-n level. Or , Kabuto is on par with K-a-k-a-s-h-i (Arguably) the second strongest ninja in Konoha. Neji is on par with S-a-s-u-k-e. (And we all know what Kakashi would do to Sasuke....Right?...
Neji is still a boy, I will openly say that in years to come Neji will most probably be as strong as Itachi, or Jirayia, but as of right now he is not even a Chunin, ok Tsunade doesn’t have the right to give him that title, nor anyone else because 1 he got his ass whooped and 2 the whole exam got fucked up because of the invasion. Anyway I’m starting to babble.
Fact: Kabuto is Orochimaru’s subordinate. (Does that not speak volumes?)
Fact: Neji is Gai’s subordinate. (Hmm, Oro or Gai?)
Fact: Kabuto is on par with Kakashi, as I said before arguably the most powerful Jounin in Konoha.
Fact: Neji could probably beat Lee (Genin) but on the other hand he would probably get beat by Sasuke also a Genin. And oh he got owned by Naruto (Not applicable).
Fact: Kabuto fought valiantly (more or less won) Against the present Hokage of Konoha (Yes she wasn’t in the proper state of mind, and I know she would own Kabuto now, but still)
Fact:: Kabuto is an evil genius who’s motives we are still unsure about, sometimes he even seems like he is using Oro.
Biggest fact of them all, and I hope all you Neji freaks out there take note of this…….Kabuto could beat Neji in a matter of seconds, he is so on totally different level, their not even in the same leauge, hell it's not even the same fucking sport!...... it’s not even funny! It's about as unfunny as the "Could a Jounin beat a Boss summon question" Which is also a fucking stupid thread.
But I’m only an anime watcher and this is just my humble opinion. ;)
Yakushi-san
2004-10-13, 18:21
You all need your heads checking!.
Ehh... I said Kabuto would easily defeat Neji. So stop referring to "everyone".
Ehh... I said Kabuto would easily defeat Neji. So stop referring to "everyone".
Exactly when did I refer to everyone? Read my post again smart arse, the first line covers your little outburst.
Yakushi-san
2004-10-13, 18:54
Sorry, my bad.
Thanks for the nice way of putting it, though. I mean come on, the least you could do it drop the insults.
Sorry, my bad.
Thanks for the nice way of putting it, though. I mean come on, the least you could do it drop the insults.
You’re right. I apologise. Er will good rep do as a repayment? Or would you like a gmail invite?
Well I’ll give you good rep anyway because I know I could have said what I said in a much more mature way but I was a bit pissed off at the time.
If you want a gmail just pm me with any old email and your name, (Name can be whatever you desire) And I’ll have it to you asap.
Again I apologise, but admit it you were wrong about me to begin with.
Yakushi-san
2004-10-13, 19:06
Wrong about you? If you're talking about the "everyone" thing, yes. I did misinterpret.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-14, 13:43
Ok...Some people still seem to think that Neji could beat Kabuto (In a fair and square fight) No surprises, no ifs, no buts, just a one on one battle. You all need your heads checking!.
I’m going to say this as simple as I can. Kabuto is J-o-u-n-i-n level, Neji is C-h-u-n-i-n level. Or , Kabuto is on par with K-a-k-a-s-h-i (Arguably) the second strongest ninja in Konoha. Neji is on par with S-a-s-u-k-e. (And we all know what Kakashi would do to Sasuke....Right?...
I admit that kabuto is a jounin lvl ninja but that doesn't prove anything. If gaara and kabuto fought one on one than kabuto would be toast so forget about all the crap about jounins being all mighty against a genin. Kakashi is the third strongest ninja in konoha after jiraiya and tsunade :P
Neji is still a boy, I will openly say that in years to come Neji will most probably be as strong as Itachi, or Jirayia, but as of right now he is not even a Chunin, ok Tsunade doesn’t have the right to give him that title, nor anyone else because 1 he got his ass whooped and 2 the whole exam got fucked up because of the invasion. Anyway I’m starting to babble.
Again ranks don't matter in narutoverse. I doubt that neji will become as strong as Itachi or jiraiya but it all depends on kishimoto.
Fact: Kabuto is Orochimaru’s subordinate. (Does that not speak volumes?)
Doesn't speak volumes when you compare the fact that zabuza was the weakest S-rank nin we have seen until now but had a subordinate powerful enough to kill kakashi/kabuto.
Fact: Neji is Gai’s subordinate. (Hmm, Oro or Gai?)
Look at the above example and compare yourself if this point of yours actually matters.
Fact: Kabuto is on par with Kakashi, as I said before arguably the most powerful Jounin in Konoha.
Kakashi is the most powerful jounin in konoha if you don't consider a sannin to be a jounin.
Fact: Neji could probably beat Lee (Genin) but on the other hand he would probably get beat by Sasuke also a Genin. And oh he got owned by Naruto (Not applicable).
The reason neji can beat lee is b/c he has a distinct advantage over anyone who fights against him with taijutsu. His combo of kaiten and byakugan gives him an absolute defense. The reason sasuke and naruto would beat neji is b/c one has curse seal and the other has kyubi apart from the fact that they are pretty well balanced with ninjutsu and taijutsu abilities unlike gaara.
Fact: Kabuto fought valiantly (more or less won) Against the present Hokage of Konoha (Yes she wasn’t in the proper state of mind, and I know she would own Kabuto now, but still)
I agree that kabuto fought valiantly against tsunade but you still can't compare tsunade with neji since their styles are completely different. Tsunade is suppose to be a medic nin while neji combines his great taijutsu skills and chakra control with absolute defense.
Fact:: Kabuto is an evil genius who’s motives we are still unsure about, sometimes he even seems like he is using Oro.
Neji is a genius also.
You can see this when he fights kidoumaru and beats kidoumaru with his own final attack which is not suppose to miss and max destructive power.
For all we know kabuto could be really loyal like a certain someone we know who got killed by gaara.
Biggest fact of them all, and I hope all you Neji freaks out there take note of this…….Kabuto could beat Neji in a matter of seconds, he is so on totally different level, their not even in the same leauge, hell it's not even the same fucking sport!...... it’s not even funny! It's about as unfunny as the "Could a Jounin beat a Boss summon question" Which is also a fucking stupid thread.
So far all I hear from ppl is that kabuto would beat neji in seconds or micro seconds b/c he is a kakashi level jounin or that he is oro's right hand man. I have given plenty of examples where ranks don't matter. You guys need to show me how he will beat neji's kaiten/byakugan combination and how he would kill neji without without neji blasting his brain or heart with enough chakra to roast it if he gets close.
But I’m only an anime watcher and this is just my humble opinion. ;)
Your opinion is appreciated.
Forgot to mention that when kurenai and other jounins went after neji, neji was in the third exam against hinata. We all know what he has learned after that fight so don't ask me if he has even upgraded any skills. Also don't compare neji's speed from the third part of the chuunin exam to current skills b/c I am not comparing the old skills of these fighters.
If rank is so important, why was Kabuto able to hold his own against Tsunade who is a Sannin? Itachi isn't the same rank as Kakashi, yet he stomped a mudhole in him. Itachi then had reservation about fighting Gai, because Gai knew a way to get around his hypnotic powers (he clearly states to not take Gai lightly, but said no such thing about Kakashi).
Rank is meaningless. Most matchups are about tactics and abilities. Kabuto using taijitsu to attack his opponents, so does Neji. The difference is Neji is a master of it (not to mention he also studied under Konoha's best Taijitsu fighter Gai) and Kabuto is simply good at it because his abilities. Needless to say, that wouldn't be enough against an all out master who is nearly aware of everything around him.
I can only see Kabuto winning against Neji if he doesn't engage him in hand to hand combat.
Yakushi-san
2004-10-14, 14:53
Hey, kazumao... (what's your face). You think Gaara would defeat Kabuto? Geez. How do you suppose that would happen? Kabuto would kill Gaara easily with a good NinJutsu. I'm sure he has many good devastating Ninjutsu up his sleeve, that would smash Gaara, and the sand wouldn't even have time to react, because Ninjutsu are not solid.
And Tettsuo, Kabuto is NOT a Taijutsu fighter. He said that himself. Get your facts straight, then come and discuss.
You said "I can only see Kabuto winning against Neji if he doesn't engage him in hand to hand combat."
Well, Kabuto wouldn't. He has Genjutsu and Ninjutsu too... Did you forget about those?
And Tettsuo, Kabuto is NOT a Taijutsu fighter. He said that himself. Get your facts straight, then come and discuss.
You said "I can only see Kabuto winning against Neji if he doesn't engage him in hand to hand combat."
Well, Kabuto wouldn't. He has Genjutsu and Ninjutsu too... Did you forget about those?
Genijutsu is pointless to someone with Neji's abilities. As for his Ninjutsu skills, did you see any of that when he fought Tsunade? No? How about any combat Ninjutsu at all. No? Then don't bring it up. All he did was use Taijutsu modified with his special technique that does damage to the muscle fibers. Beyond, we really haven't seen anything special about Kabuto in regards to combat.
Sooo... maybe the person that should get their facts straight is you.
Yakushi-san
2004-10-14, 16:15
A fact is that Kabuto is Orochimaru's right hand man. You think Kakashi sees a guy with no Ninjutsu, and poor Taijutsu skills as a threat? Geez. Come on.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-14, 17:54
Hey, kazumao... (what's your face). You think Gaara would defeat Kabuto? Geez. How do you suppose that would happen? Kabuto would kill Gaara easily with a good NinJutsu. I'm sure he has many good devastating Ninjutsu up his sleeve, that would smash Gaara, and the sand wouldn't even have time to react, because Ninjutsu are not solid.
You need to get your facts straight about who will get crushed between gaara and kabuto. The only thing that we have seen penetrate gaara's outer sand def is rock lee type speed. How do you suppose he will get around that outer shell of sand defense to get to gaara since he is bad at taijutsu(kabuto's own words). Even if he gets around that outer def, gaara has an inner defense. Nobody has seen the true gaara since god knows how long.
Did you forget that gaara held kimimaro's ultimate attack with his ultimate defense. How do you even suppose that kabuto will get around that?
I also said in my last post to bring cold hard facts and not make assumptions about kabuto's abilities but here you are again making assumptions that he has some uber powerful ninjutsu and genjutsu. Gaara can beat the crap out of kabuto in so many ways that it's not even funny. BTW did I mention that long range attacks don't do anything to gaara and the only way to beat gaara is using taijutsu unless you are a sannin level fighter or above.
And Tettsuo, Kabuto is NOT a Taijutsu fighter. He said that himself. Get your facts straight, then come and discuss.
You said "I can only see Kabuto winning against Neji if he doesn't engage him in hand to hand combat."
Well, Kabuto wouldn't. He has Genjutsu and Ninjutsu too... Did you forget about those?
I completely agree with tettsuo and all of you kabuto fans need to tell me why kabuto hasn't used one genjutsu and ninjutsu during his fight against tsunade, shizune, and naruto. Kabuto said it himself that he isn't good at taijutsu so why the hell would he fight where he is weak but not where he is strong at. The simple reason is that he prolly sucks at ninjutsu and genjutsu even worse than taijutsu. Kabuto isn't a stupid moron and like I said previously like a million times, tell me how would kabuto win against neji and his absolute defense. Again no stupid assumptions plz.
A fact is that Kabuto is Orochimaru's right hand man. You think Kakashi sees a guy with no Ninjutsu, and poor Taijutsu skills as a threat? Geez. Come on.
So what kabuto is oro's right hand man. Zabuza was the weakest S-rank ninja we have seen until now and he had more powerful right hand man(a 12 yr old kid) than kabuto. Kabuto would get crushed against haku and his uber jutsus so you shouldn't even be assuming that just b/c he is some crazy powerful nin's right hand man, the subordinate must be really great too.
Yakushi-san
2004-10-14, 18:11
You make a good case, but the fact that Kabuto said "I'm not a very good Taijutsu fighter" implies that he IS good with Nin and Gen, otherwise he'd say something like "I'm not very good with Jutsu".
Besides, who are we to assume that Kabuto isn't as fast as Lee?
And why would Orochimaru bring Kabuto, prepared to fight Tsunade if Kabuto isn't skilled enough to take on Neji?
UserName
2004-10-14, 19:52
The pills counts as a jutsu or weapon of the ninja. So with that he will then become good at taijutsu. It's no less valid than any jutsus to use.
A fact is that Kabuto is Orochimaru's right hand man. You think Kakashi sees a guy with no Ninjutsu, and poor Taijutsu skills as a threat? Geez. Come on.
Mmm...no...Kabuto is a threat because he's smart. You know, like how Shikamaru isn't as physically strong as Chouji, as jutsu-versed as Sasuke, as fast as Lee, yet still manages to be a threat based on his intelligence ALONE.
Besides, who are we to assume that Kabuto isn't as fast as Lee?
So...because we can't prove he isn't, therefore he must be?
Kabuto could summon a giant snake and get it to eat Neji. Nuff said.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-15, 11:57
Kabuto could summon a giant snake and get it to eat Neji. Nuff said.
You are making another assumption there with kabuto being able to summon a giant snake. For all you know neji could summon an eagle or a mongoose who are the predators of snakes.
As I said before don't make assumtions about stuff that you don't know about when you are comparing them.
The pills counts as a jutsu or weapon of the ninja. So with that he will then become good at taijutsu. It's no less valid than any jutsus to use.
Nobody is counting out the dif type of pills you can take to help out in the battle. If you are saying that if kabuto takes the pill than he will be good at taijutsu than neji can eat a pill and become god of taijutsu(don't take it literally).
Neji isn't a master of anything! Well towards other Genin’s maybe.
Now Hyashi on the other hand….
Or Gai….
Or Itachi…
Bronwen Stx
2004-10-15, 12:31
You are making another assumption there with kabuto being able to summon a giant snake. For all you know neji could summon an eagle or a mongoose who are the predators of snakes.
Kabuto can't summon a giant snake. Where in naruto's world did you pick that up?
But yes, he can kick Neji's butt with ease.
Kabuto can't summon a giant snake. Where in naruto's world did you pick that up?
But yes, he can kick Neji's butt with ease.
How do you know? He obviously knows the seals and he has more than enough Chakra.
Would you really find it that hard to believe if Kabuto summoned a snake?
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-15, 12:50
Kabuto can't summon a giant snake. Where in naruto's world did you pick that up?
If you are referring this to me than you have got the wrong guy. I was merely replying to shay. Read the sentence and post from the start before commenting.
But yes, he can kick Neji's butt with ease.
Everyone has been telling me that so do you care to tell me how he is gonna go about doing that. Come up with something new for your argument about how he will crush neji. Also don't make assumptions like others have b/c you are not kishimoto.
Nine Devil
2004-10-15, 13:28
If you are referring this to me than you have got the wrong guy. I was merely replying to shay. Read the sentence and post from the start before commenting.
Everyone has been telling me that so do you care to tell me how he is gonna go about doing that. Come up with something new for your argument about how he will crush neji. Also don't make assumptions like others have b/c you are not kishimoto.
Dude, please snap out of it, would ya. Neji will get his butt kicked by Kabuto.
It's like saying a Sannin can't beat Naruto.
How do you know? He obviously knows the seals and he has more than enough Chakra.
Would you really find it that hard to believe if Kabuto summoned a snake?
A snake? No.
A giant snake? Yes.
Dude, please snap out of it, would ya. Neji will get his butt kicked by Kabuto.
It's like saying a Sannin can't beat Naruto.
Hehe... a Sannin was defeated by Kabuto, then got put down by Naruto.
Rank isn't that important. Yes, I gives us a measuring stick, but it certainly isn't the end all be all.
Nine Devil
2004-10-15, 14:25
Hehe... a Sannin was defeated by Kabuto, then got put down by Naruto.
Rank isn't that important. Yes, I gives us a measuring stick, but it certainly isn't the end all be all.
Defeated? You made me chuckle there. She had all that phobia shit going on. Kabuto gave her some sweet ass kicking. But after that she recovered and knocked Oro down with one punch. The Naruto vs Kabuto was a tie in favor for Kabuto.
Defeated? You made me chuckle there. She had all that phobia shit going on. Kabuto gave her some sweet ass kicking. But after that she recovered and knocked Oro down with one punch. The Naruto vs Kabuto was a tie in favor for Kabuto.
So what does the phobia thing have to do with her getting her ass handed to her? Does that mean she didn't really lose? No sir.. she got her ass kicked. Kabuto using her phobia against her is called - GOOD TACTICS! Even before the whole phobia thing kicked in, Kabuto was holding his own against a Sannin and he isn't even a Jounin yet.
So again I say, rank isn't the end all be all.
As for the Naruto Kabuto fight... all I said was he got put down. Didn't say Naruto won, but Naruto certainly gave him a run for his money and pushed him to his limits.
Nine Devil
2004-10-15, 15:23
So what does the phobia thing have to do with her getting her ass handed to her? Does that mean she didn't really lose? No sir.. she got her ass kicked. Kabuto using her phobia against her is called - GOOD TACTICS! Even before the whole phobia thing kicked in, Kabuto was holding his own against a Sannin and he isn't even a Jounin yet.
So again I say, rank isn't the end all be all.
As for the Naruto Kabuto fight... all I said was he got put down. Didn't say Naruto won, but Naruto certainly gave him a run for his money and pushed him to his limits.
It has everything to do with Tsunade not being able to use her powers. Ofcourse its a nice strategy, but you put it like you are saying Kabuto is stronger than Tsunade. Do you even believe that? Kabuto did beat up Tsunade. But he didn't win. He is a genin who is on the same level as Kakashi.
Second of all where did I ever mentioned about Rank being a relevant thing in a fight? You came up with it. It is just that the power difference is to great.
It has everything to do with Tsunade not being able to use her powers. Ofcourse its a nice strategy, but you put it like you are saying Kabuto is stronger than Tsunade. Do you even believe that? Kabuto did beat up Tsunade. But he didn't win. He is a genin who is on the same level as Kakashi.
Second of all where did I ever mentioned about Rank being a relevant thing in a fight? You came up with it. It is just that the power difference is to great.
Initially, Kabuto fought Tsunade to a stand-still. She eventually backed him into a corner so to speak, then he pulled his trump card... her fear of blood. But, before he even went there, he fought her to a stand-still using his modified Taijitsu abilities.
I wasn't saying Kabuto was more powerful than Tsunade, but I was saying he beat her. Fighting someone has as much to do with tactics as it has to do with physical power. Kabuto beat Tsunade with tactics, the same way Naruto put a hurting on Kabuto, with tactics.
All I'm saying is Kabuto would be at a tactical disadvantage against Neji because from what we've seen of both of their abilities, he needs to be in hand to hand combat range and in that range, Neji is especially dangerous. His only hope would be strike at Neji from a distance. He hasn't shown any superior speed, strength, stamina or anything like that, but he has shown that he can outsmart his opponents and probably survive most serious injuries.
So from what I've seen thus far from Kabuto, he'd be in trouble if he fought Neji.
Dude, please snap out of it, would ya. Neji will get his butt kicked by Kabuto.
It's like saying a Sannin can't beat Naruto.
Here you mentioned rank.
Hideki Keiji
2004-10-15, 17:10
Here you mentioned rank.
I agree with your points, and I hate to nitpick, but Sannin isn't a rank.
It is a title/name given to the three legendary ninjas of Konoha, it means something like "The Three People". However, people here often use it as a rank of power, such as "Itachi is a sannin level ninja". A more proper way would be to call someone Kage level, as the *kages are supposedly the strongest in their respective village, and it is a rank.
Other than that, until Kabuto shows more skills, I would say that Neji has the advantage in a fight.
Nine Devil
2004-10-15, 18:43
Here you mentioned rank.
Sannin, is not a rank ;)
Hideki Keiji
2004-10-15, 19:25
Sannin, is not a rank ;)
You posted an hour after me, and said the exact same thing? Did you even read my post? Does anyone read my posts!?
:frustrated: :frustrated:
Whatever. :dots:
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-15, 20:59
Dude, please snap out of it, would ya. Neji will get his butt kicked by Kabuto.
It's like saying a Sannin can't beat Naruto.
As usual you are coming up with crap reasons as to why kabuto would kick neji's ass. Plz if you are so smart and knowledgeable about this prove me wrong on whatever I have said until now. I have proven everyone wrong on how much experience does kabuto really have. Can you really tell me how much strength, stamina, chakra, taijutsu, ninjutsu & genjutsu abilities does kabuto have compared to neji. As a matter of fact of what we have seen until now kabuto lags behind in the most important aspects that are needed to beat neji in a straight up fight. Last thing I would add is that neji isn't no damn idiot and he is a genius of one of the highest calibre that konoha has produced until now so neji can be considered as crafty just like kabuto.
If kabuto went in with even half the reckless abandon like he did against naruto, kabuto would die in a matter of a few minutes. Even if he fought neji in a one on one fight kabuto has less chance of winning than neji just going by what we have seen until now.
I will put that in a more simplier way : did Kurenai showed to be even slightly good in Taijutsu compared to the other Jounins?
Not particulary, however she grabbed Neji in a split second with the other Jounins and none of them seemed to have forced and certainely sweated anyway.
Neji and Kabuto don't have the same level of power, that's all.
Nine Devil
2004-10-15, 22:22
You posted an hour after me, and said the exact same thing? Did you even read my post? Does anyone read my posts!?
:frustrated: :frustrated:
No .
Yakushi-san
2004-10-15, 22:48
Wow... this is a lame discussion. How the hell can Kabuto NOT defeat Neji? I mean come on.
Kabuto is on a so much higher level than Neji, even Kakashi sees Kabuto as a threat.
And what is Neji a master at? You say Taijutsu. Geez, Gai must be some kind of Taijutsu GOD then.
Neji won't get to touch Kabuto.
Kabuto helped Orochimaru summon Manda, which means he has a shitload of chakra. If he can't defeat Neji because of Kaiten or his internal-organ-attacks, he can just play around until Neji is out of chakra. After that, Neji is a goner.
A genin with no particular outstanding skills, vs. someone a Special Jounin sees as a threat.
Oh yeah, someone mentioned Gaara being able to defend himself from Kimimaro's ultimate offense... Hey, Kimimaro is Kabuto's subordinate, right?
Try a Neji vs. Gaara discussion next time. This thing is just as ridiculous as Konohamaru vs. Itachi. Or Moegi vs. Orochimaru (with arms intact).
I will put that in a more simplier way : did Kurenai showed to be even slightly good in Taijutsu compared to the other Jounins?
Not particulary, however she grabbed Neji in a split second with the other Jounins and none of them seemed to have forced and certainely sweated anyway.
Neji and Kabuto don't have the same level of power, that's all.
Could Neji have been...tired from spending 5 days (120 hours, no deep sleep) in the Forest of Death and then pretty much immediately put in a match?
(Not to say that if he were fresh he could outrun Kakashi, Gai, and the rest, but that Neji at that point was not an accurate reflection of his actual abilities)
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-16, 08:01
I will put that in a more simplier way : did Kurenai showed to be even slightly good in Taijutsu compared to the other Jounins?
Not particulary, however she grabbed Neji in a split second with the other Jounins and none of them seemed to have forced and certainely sweated anyway.
Neji and Kabuto don't have the same level of power, that's all.
Oh plz do you actually want me to believe that. That happened a while ago and neji in that time has improved in leaps. I have specifically stated many times in my previous posts not to compare neji like 4 to 5 months back from current point in time. When kurenai got him was during the third part of the chuunin exam but here you are doing the same thing as others have done :upset:
Wow... this is a lame discussion. How the hell can Kabuto NOT defeat Neji? I mean come on.
Kabuto is on a so much higher level than Neji, even Kakashi sees Kabuto as a threat.
And what is Neji a master at? You say Taijutsu. Geez, Gai must be some kind of Taijutsu GOD then.
Neji won't get to touch Kabuto.
You tell me as to how kabuto will defeat neji. Kabuto is weak as hell at taijutsu and neji's taijutsu isn't normal taijutsu. Neji can hurt you without touching you for god's sake. As I mentioned earlier in like everyone of my posts, levels don't matter that much in narutoverse where you have dif fighting styles with strengths and weaknesses against other styles.
Kabuto helped Orochimaru summon Manda, which means he has a shitload of chakra. If he can't defeat Neji because of Kaiten or his internal-organ-attacks, he can just play around until Neji is out of chakra. After that, Neji is a goner.
One question for you yakushi, if kabuto ran out of chakra after partially healing himself from naruto's rasengan than how did he have enough chakra to summon manda. The fact is he didn't put in any chakra to summon manda. All the chakra came from oro. As far as we have seen kabuto has less chakra than neji b/c if he ran out of chakra after eating a soldier pill and healing himself only once than I can say fairly correctly that he doesn't all that chakra to begin with.
A genin with no particular outstanding skills, vs. someone a Special Jounin sees as a threat.
This statement is particularly funny when you compare the fact that the only thing going for kabuto is his information on everyone, brains and healing. As for neji not having any outstanding skills is hilarious. Neji happened to be #1 just like sasuke in his class. Neji has a huge chakra pool for being a genin and his chakra control is better than a jounin. Best of jounins can open tenketsus of only their hands but neji can open all his tenketsus and release exact amount of chakra he needs to do the jutsu he wants to do. He can see 359 degrees and is the greatest hyuuga born yet(looking at his skils). Did I mention that kabuto does not know about the 1 degree neji can't see but than kabuto isn't a ranged fighter so it doesn't matter.
As for neji's speed, even though neji is very weak against anyone with accurate ranged fighting capabilities, he had enough speed to dodge kidoumaru's sureshot 110% accuracy/destructive arrow within a micro second from hitting his vitals that kidoumaru was aiming at. Kabuto isn't this fast and hasn't been this fast even after eating a freaking soldier pill.
Oh yeah, someone mentioned Gaara being able to defend himself from Kimimaro's ultimate offense... Hey, Kimimaro is Kabuto's subordinate, right?
I said that gaara defended himself against kimi's ultimate attack just to let you know. BTW kimimaro isn't kabuto's subordinate and if you think thats true than you need to reread the manga. Kimimaro is more powerful than kabuto which is the only reason why oro wanted kimimaro's body in the first place and the only reason oro didnt take over kimi is b/c he is on a deathbed.
Oh plz do you actually want me to believe that. That happened a while ago and neji in that time has improved in leaps. I have specifically stated many times in my previous posts not to compare neji like 4 to 5 months back from current point in time. When kurenai got him was during the third part of the chuunin exam but here you are doing the same thing as others have done :upset:
I'm doing the "same thing than others have done" because it's merely logical whereas you have no point to begin with.
Except if you think that Neji became 5 to 10 faster than he was during the prelim in about 2 months (and not 4 or 5...) then Neji is obviously outmatched in speed by any Jounin even by Hayate who was only a special Jounin.
Given that the story never even hinted a particular huge speed improvement from Neji contrary to Sasuke for example and that it's the only thing which could allow him to start to compete with a Jounin (not even being a match, just not being pitiful) then to say that Neji is fast enough to compete with someone of this level is nothing but an affirmation without any basis and contradicting what the story showed.
The simple fact is that the manga showed Neji way overpowered by people with Jounin level, it happens times to times to make remember to the readers that even though fight between the Genins are impressive there is something above.
The way the Jounins stopped Neji, the way Gai stopped Gaara's Sand like nothing, the way Asuma annihilated the 8 Sound ninja in a split second, the way Hiashi destroyed some dozens of opponents with a single huge Kaiten, etc.
There is many moment which shows the huge gap between them.
Oh and Neji must touch you to hurt you, the Jyuken only needs a slight touch but the contact is needed.
And Kabuto isn't "weak as hell", Taijutsu simply isn't his speciality -which is why I mentioned Kurenai in the first place.
I said that gaara defended himself against kimi's ultimate attack just to let you know. BTW kimimaro isn't kabuto's subordinate and if you think thats true than you need to reread the manga. Kimimaro is more powerful than kabuto which is the only reason why oro wanted kimimaro's body in the first place and the only reason oro didnt take over kimi is b/c he is on a deathbed.
Purely assumption based on nothing, I suppose then that Sasuke is stronger than Kabuto as well.
Nine Devil
2004-10-16, 10:00
Purely assumption based on nothing, I suppose then that Sasuke is stronger than Kabuto as well.
Duh, Kazumashellbullet is ofcourse gonna say yes.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-16, 10:35
I'm doing the "same thing than others have done" because it's merely logical whereas you have no point to begin with.
Except if you think that Neji became 5 to 10 faster than he was during the prelim in about 2 months (and not 4 or 5...) then Neji is obviously outmatched in speed by any Jounin even by Hayate who was only a special Jounin.
Given that the story never even hinted a particular huge speed improvement from Neji contrary to Sasuke for example and that it's the only thing which could allow him to start to compete with a Jounin (not even being a match, just not being pitiful) then to say that Neji is fast enough to compete with someone of this level is nothing but an affirmation without any basis and contradicting what the story showed.
The simple fact is that the manga showed Neji way overpowered by people with Jounin level, it happens times to times to make remember to the readers that even though fight between the Genins are impressive there is something above.
The way the Jounins stopped Neji, the way Gai stopped Gaara's Sand like nothing, the way Asuma annihilated the 8 Sound ninja in a split second, the way Hiashi destroyed some dozens of opponents with a single huge Kaiten, etc.
There is many moment which shows the huge gap between them.
Oh and Neji must touch you to hurt you, the Jyuken only needs a slight touch but the contact is needed.
And Kabuto isn't "weak as hell", Taijutsu simply isn't his speciality -which is why I mentioned Kurenai in the first place.
That entire post of yours has no point as far as I can see. I do have a point but ppl aren't willing to see it. I didn't say that neji got 5x to 10x faster but only mentioned that he has improved by leaps. If you think neji is slow and can't keep up with a jounin's speed than why do you think naruto(second slowest male genin in konoha) was able to catch kabuto's punch. Naruto(genin) is suppose to be really bad at taijutsu and he caught kabuto who was using soldier pills(gives user strength, stamina and speed). Kabuto was so weak that naruto who couldn't move even one step caught kabuto and held onto his hand long enough to make rasengan and hit him with it. This is the same naruto(& his bunshins) who neji beat in the finals. Naruto couldn't even lay a hand on neji in that fight until the last upper cut so I suppose what you are saying along with everyone here is that since kabuto is suppose to be jounin level, he has ungodly speed that genins can't catch upto(pure assumption). On the other hand naruto beat kabuto during the sannin fight but naruto lost against neji in the chuunin exam until he used kyubi. If neji was fast enough to avoid getting hit even once from all the bunshins than he is fast enough to avoid getting hit by kabuto. Of course if you still disagree about how fast kabuto is than you don't make one bit of sense to me.
Purely assumption based on nothing, I suppose then that Sasuke is stronger than Kabuto as well.
Sasuke with curse seal 2 would crush kabuto if you want me to tell it to you straight up. The reason oro wants sasuke is b/c he is a jutsu freak and wants to learn all the jutsus he can, as fast as possible which sharingan allows him to do that apart from the fact that he has huge potential under right guidance. And there you have it nine devil, I came out and told you that sasuke would crush kabuto :p
Plz come up with something new which can prove as a fact that kabuto is fast as you are making it out to be instead of the same kurenai stuff over and over again.
That entire post of yours has no point as far as I can see. I do have a point but ppl aren't willing to see it.
Then buy some glasses and start to show your point because just to say I have point and you all don't want to see them is a little laughtable.
I didn't see a single point in every single of your posts showing that Neji could handle Kabuto.
Whereas I saw plenty of reasons in the manga to think otherwise.
The 4 Sound at to go all out in curse seal level 2 all together to take down two special jounins, ie way under Kakashi/Gai/Kabuto level and these special Jounins were however very tired and out of chakra due to their long mission.
The fight of Neji against only one of the 4 Sound was at first pretty much a draw between their skills when Kidoumaru wasn't using his CS, and overwhelming victory for Kidoumaru when he started to use the CS.
Actually he started to use the curse seal lvl2 because he had "enough fun".
In the end Neji was able to lead the fight a draw because he understood that he couldn't escape from Kidoumaru's attacks and was able to outsmart him at the very end.
But the difference of power was obvious, from Neji's own words he was weaker by far.
Weaker than the guy who needed to fight along with 3 comrade to take down 2 tired special Jounins.
I didn't say that neji got 5x to 10x faster but only mentioned that he has improved by leaps.
Yes and you invent things.
I will repeat given that you carefully avoided the point : where the manga ever hinted that Neji made huge improvement in speed?
If you think neji is slow and can't keep up with a jounin's speed than why do you think naruto(second slowest male genin in konoha) was able to catch kabuto's punch. Naruto(genin) is suppose to be really bad at taijutsu and he caught kabuto who was using soldier pills(gives user strength, stamina and speed).
Firstly second slowest male Genin in Konoha?
Slower than Shikamaru, Chouji, or even Shino who never showed that he was particulary good at Taijutsu, slower than basically all the Genin who couldn't pass the different test of the Chuunin exam without speaking of those who weren't even presented?
Yeah right.
And Kabuto, the guy who fought Tsunade and had his nervous system damaged enabled him to use only 80% of his body with his wrist cut and blood lose and who also fight an beat Shizune before and who only then fought Naruto?
As I said in the first page : Except in a particular set of events and unpredictable (yet) circumstances due to storyline reasons, Kabuto would most than probably crush Neji.
And Neji lacks the biggest advantage of Naruto : he's not the hero of the story.
Btw while you're at comparing the speed of Naruto and Kabuto, re-watch what Naruto could do against Tsunade and what did Kabito before he passed through all these fights.
Maybe that would help you to see the difference between them.
Oh and even with that Kabuto was still faster than Naruto, which is why Naruto sacrified his hand to begin with to hold Kabuto during a moment.
And Naruto didn't beat Kabuto anyway, if you're able to remember something which happened so long ago, Kabuto was only down for a bit after being hit by the Rasengan whereas Naruto was dying and survived only because Tsunade (the best med-nin in the world remember?) saved him.
Sasuke with curse seal 2 would crush kabuto if you want me to tell it to you straight up. The reason oro wants sasuke is b/c he is a jutsu freak and wants to learn all the jutsus he can, as fast as possible which sharingan allows him to do that apart from the fact that he has huge potential under right guidance.
And there you have it nine devil, I came out and told you that sasuke would crush kabuto :p
Indeed and Sasuke who was around the same level of the Sound Ninjas who needed to go all out against mere special jounin would whip off the floor with Kabuto.
Btw Sakura could also annihilate Kabuto, Konohamaru would crush him the hands tied behind his back and Gamakichi would trample him.
Right.
Plz come up with something new which can prove as a fact that kabuto is fast as you are making it out to be instead of the same kurenai stuff over and over again.
Don't come with something new, come with something in the first place.
And answer the point to begin with before asking for a new one.
Nine Devil
2004-10-16, 14:18
Do I hear pwned?
BrownRukus
2004-10-16, 14:20
Do I hear pwned?
haahah :p
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-16, 16:53
Then buy some glasses and start to show your point because just to say I have point and you all don't want to see them is a little laughtable.
I didn't see a single point in every single of your posts showing that Neji could handle Kabuto.
Whereas I saw plenty of reasons in the manga to think otherwise.
Care to point out which post I haven't any point at all.
The 4 Sound at to go all out in curse seal level 2 all together to take down two special jounins, ie way under Kakashi/Gai/Kabuto level and these special Jounins were however very tired and out of chakra due to their long mission.
The fight of Neji against only one of the 4 Sound was at first pretty much a draw between their skills when Kidoumaru wasn't using his CS, and overwhelming victory for Kidoumaru when he started to use the CS.
Actually he started to use the curse seal lvl2 because he had "enough fun".
In the end Neji was able to lead the fight a draw because he understood that he couldn't escape from Kidoumaru's attacks and was able to outsmart him at the very end.
But the difference of power was obvious, from Neji's own words he was weaker by far.
Weaker than the guy who needed to fight along with 3 comrade to take down 2 tired special Jounins.
Genma and the other guy aren't special jounins. They are normal jounins and who cares if they got their asses handed by sound 4 when they were low(not out of chakra) on chakra. The way everyone is saying here genins/chuunins are nothing compared to jounins means that you get pwned in just about all the scenarios. If you don't see my point of ranks don't matter than can you care to explain why tsunade got beat by kabuto. Tsunade = hokage and kabuto is a jounin. Also while you are at it try to explain why zabuza said that haku would be a better fighter against kakashi.
As for neji being crushed by kidoumaru when he started using curse seal is true. I never disagreed with that. Also as I have mentioned dif types of fighting styles has advantages and disadvantages against other styles, neji is a close ranged fighter compared to kidoumaru who is a long range fighter. Fighting long range fighters is a big disadv for neji while anyone who fights using taijutsu has a big disadv against neji b/c of neji's byakugan.
Yes and you invent things.
I will repeat given that you carefully avoided the point : where the manga ever hinted that Neji made huge improvement in speed?
No I do not invent things and neji's speed has improved from the third part of the chuunin exams which you can tell from the fact that he could dodge kidoumaru's ultimate attack arrows within mini seconds from hitting his vitals. Neji wasn't able to do the same thing against naruto during the chuunin finals when naruto surprised neji even though neji saw naruto come out of the ground and uppercut him.
Firstly second slowest male Genin in Konoha?
Slower than Shikamaru, Chouji, or even Shino who never showed that he was particulary good at Taijutsu, slower than basically all the Genin who couldn't pass the different test of the Chuunin exam without speaking of those who weren't even presented?
Yeah right.
I said male genin in konoha which doesn't include Shikamaru who is a chuunin so get your fact straight hunter. As for chouji is slower than naruto which is true but shino and naruto's speed is debatable. We never see him move since most of the times he doesn't need to. Hell I will even give you that shino is slower than naruto. As for kishimoto not showing other genins and you bringing it into this debate is pointless if not stupid since your point doesn't prove anything.
And Kabuto, the guy who fought Tsunade and had his nervous system damaged enabled him to use only 80% of his body with his wrist cut and blood lose and who also fight an beat Shizune before and who only then fought Naruto?
During the sannin fight, kabuto used soldier pill which I have mentioned like 100 times now. It's effect to kabuto's body would make him much more powerful than he normally is. Shizune was messed up by tsunade just like jiraiya so when she fought kabuto she wasn't even close to 100%. Secondly he beat tsunade by cutting his wrist and on the sight of kabuto's blood tsunade freaks out and becomes a 2 year old kid who can't defend herself. Kabuto knew what he was doing when he cut his wrist and knew that it wouldn't be too much of a hindrance. Manga doesn't show anything remotely close that kabuto made a bad decision cutting his wrist and in fact it was perfect strategy. Kabuto came out of this fight in much better shape than you would have ppl think. He used almost zero chakra and there was no sign of exhaustion so plz don't try to explain about how kabuto could have been or was tired and exhausted.
As I said in the first page :
And Neji lacks the biggest advantage of Naruto : he's not the hero of the story.
I know neji isn't naruto and you know just how many times naruto has lost even though he is the main character of the story. Winning and losing in naruto goes hand in hand.
Btw while you're at comparing the speed of Naruto and Kabuto, re-watch what Naruto could do against Tsunade and what did Kabito before he passed through all these fights.
Maybe that would help you to see the difference between them.
Oh and even with that Kabuto was still faster than Naruto, which is why Naruto sacrified his hand to begin with to hold Kabuto during a moment.
Kabuto was faster than naruto and there is no denying the facts. I never said naruto was faster than kabuto. The fact is that naruto is slower than neji. Now during the battle kabuto hit naruto's legs and disabled them so naruto couldn't even move and couldn't do anything. During that instance when naruto was so weak and vulnerable, kabuto charged him but naruto held his attack and held onto him long enough to hit him with rasengan. Naruto did all of this without relying one bit on kyubi's power. I am sure you know all that quite clearly so would you care to explain how exactly naruto did that. This proves for a fact that neji can see kabuto since naruto did it and can keep up with him, we can say that neji can do it also.
And Naruto didn't beat Kabuto anyway, if you're able to remember something which happened so long ago, Kabuto was only down for a bit after being hit by the Rasengan whereas Naruto was dying and survived only because Tsunade (the best med-nin in the world remember?) saved him.
There are two ways to look at it. One is your way to look at it and the other way is my way to look at it. Naruto is a genin who didn't use kyubi to almost kill kabuto in the fight while kabuto who is at kakashi's level barely managed to kill naruto. I would call it a win since a genin crippled an elite jounin level medic ninja and took him out of the battle.
Indeed and Sasuke who was around the same level of the Sound Ninjas who needed to go all out against mere special jounin would whip off the floor with Kabuto.
Now you are seeing my point after a long time :D
Btw Sakura could also annihilate Kabuto, Konohamaru would crush him the hands tied behind his back and Gamakichi would trample him.
Right.
Don't come with something new, come with something in the first place.
And answer the point to begin with before asking for a new one.
If you go back and look at the posts, it is me who is replying and answering most of the points but nobody is even answering the questions I raised. Do you care to answer my questions.
hokagenaruto3
2004-10-16, 16:58
Dude, your spacin, Kabuto was trying to break Naruto's will. he could have killed naruto any time:remember when he was kicking defeated Naruto on the ground?
What makes you say he couldn't have grabbed a knife and slit naruto's throat, after that cut the link to Kyuubi and let him die?: nothing! On the other hand naruto was desperately trying to avoid Kabuto.
Kabuto was just in CONTROL, but he extended the fight to break Naruto's will and make him rout.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-16, 17:21
Dude, your spacin, Kabuto was trying to break Naruto's will. he could have killed naruto any time:remember when he was kicking defeated Naruto on the ground?
What makes you say he couldn't have grabbed a knife and slit naruto's throat, after that cut the link to Kyuubi and let him die?: nothing! On the other hand naruto was desperately trying to avoid Kabuto.
Kabuto was just in CONTROL, but he extended the fight to break Naruto's will and make him rout.
It's the end game that matters and I am not denying that kabuto had naruto beat but wanted to play around and than got beat by a rasengan right into the gut. This is the reason I said that if kabuto went in with even half the reckless abandon against neji like he did against naruto than he would lose. I am just proving a point that kabuto with soldier pills could be seen, tracked and countered by a crippled naruto so if naruto can do this than neji sure as hell has a good chance of doing that.
Yes, I am also attacking kabuto's supposed taijutsu abilities. He was so strong(not) that he couldn't even get away from a crippled naruto after seeing naruto make rasengan. Plz someone explain this to me as to how can this happen if kabuto who is in an elite jounin class can't get away from a genin. I would give up my argument if you can explain this to me in a sensible way.
hokagenaruto3
2004-10-16, 17:37
One question though: :naughty:
If Kabuto could heal Hinata's Jyuuken wounds, Why shouldn't he be able to heal on the spot?
Kakashi said:"Well, you can't train your inner body" That's right, but someone like Kabuto could easily heal them, as he has done to another, which I doubt is as easy as healing yourself.
My conclusion: Neji can win, but won't. Then again this applies to anyone :o
He will definately have to resort to something like a Naruto Vs. Kabuto-like tactic, or a Neji Vs. Kidoumaru tactic.
And by the way, it is to be discussed if Neji needs contact to use Jyuuken, but it's already proven that Kabuto can: Tsunade was amazed by how far the distance was between Naruto and Kabuto, when Kabuto used that Chakra scalpel.
Edit:and sorry about that spacin thingy :o
MoogleHunter
2004-10-16, 19:53
Its been said here a lot that theres no proof of kabuto having great speed like the other jounin..but there is.
While Kabuto and Tsunade fight, they go flying into a rock that tsunade kicks a big chunk out of, and kabuto then ducks behind. Tsunade rebounds off another rock and comes in for a second swipe. As shes coming, Kabuto goes 'crazy ninja movement blur' mode and appears behind her. She notices, but is unable to react with more than a gasp as he disables SEVERAL of her muscles. (ep 93 approx 9:29)
I'd say thats pretty damn fast, though I dont know how it'll help with the argument against neji. Just thought you'd like to know :)
If nothing else, it insinuates that he's not slow :D
I still think Neji is faster, BTW - seeing as how his specialty is taijutsu (which requires strength AND speed) and Kabuto's specialty is strategy/healing (which do not necessarily require intensive training in either speed or strength)
Raikage I don't think you have actually picked a side have you?
Plain and simple who do you seriously think would win?
Honestly...as much as I like Neji, Kabuto should be able to handle him, as long as it doesn't end up in a taijutsu fight.
Much like Hyuuga va. pretty much anyone else, if Neji can close the gap it's pretty much over - which is where the question of Kabuto's speed comes in.
I once wrote of a Hyuuga theoretically being able to become a long-distance sniper (in the Forest of Death, Hinata is able to use her Byakugan to see a distance of 1 km away, with Gaara's gourd clearly defined/in focus) but Neji has shown no signs of being able to fight at anything too much further away than arm's length.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-16, 21:30
Its been said here a lot that theres no proof of kabuto having great speed like the other jounin..but there is.
While Kabuto and Tsunade fight, they go flying into a rock that tsunade kicks a big chunk out of, and kabuto then ducks behind. Tsunade rebounds off another rock and comes in for a second swipe. As shes coming, Kabuto goes 'crazy ninja movement blur' mode and appears behind her. She notices, but is unable to react with more than a gasp as he disables SEVERAL of her muscles. (ep 93 approx 9:29)
I'd say thats pretty damn fast, though I dont know how it'll help with the argument against neji. Just thought you'd like to know :)
This still does not answer my question as to why kabuto got caught by a crippled genin in the first place also it doesn't answer how he couldn't get away from a crippled genin. Like I said before, beating neji depends entirely on how good you are at long ranged fighting and speed.
Its been said here a lot that theres no proof of kabuto having great speed like the other jounin..but there is.
While Kabuto and Tsunade fight, they go flying into a rock that tsunade kicks a big chunk out of, and kabuto then ducks behind. Tsunade rebounds off another rock and comes in for a second swipe. As shes coming, Kabuto goes 'crazy ninja movement blur' mode and appears behind her. She notices, but is unable to react with more than a gasp as he disables SEVERAL of her muscles. (ep 93 approx 9:29)
I'd say thats pretty damn fast, though I dont know how it'll help with the argument against neji. Just thought you'd like to know :)
Sure but your going by the anime, in the manga he had no such speed as far as I remember.
I'm sure Neji is alot quicker now, again I point to
The Kidoumaru/Neji fight, in which Neji shoots a line of chakra through Kidoumaru's web, damaging some organs. Kidoumaru then falls on the branch he was standing on, while Neji is having a flashback about his convo with Naruto. Kidoumaru then falls off the branch, and Neji gathers strength to battle Kidoumaru again. (At this point they were pretty far apart.) Neji reaches Kidoumaru before Kidoumaru hits the ground, and uses his new attack.
Though Neji hasn't really shown us anything other than taijutsu, we know he knows the basics since you have to know those in order to graduate. Maybe after this fight Neji will release he can't rely on his taijutsu skills all the time
Indeed and Sasuke who was around the same level of the Sound Ninjas.
Umm, it was quite clear that Sasuke was not at their level, hence him getting beat, which leads up to him dying and getting his CS2.
MoogleHunter
2004-10-16, 23:52
kazuma, im fairly certain that naruto is just obliged to do something fancy and "kickass" at least once every arc while redeeming himself from a prior whupping, no matter how ridiculous and unrealistic the situation is. Its a side effect of being the number one main character of the friggin manga/anime. If you'll remember, he won vs kiba by a FART.
Kabuto was unrealistically shocked by naruto's sudden retaliation..A 'deer in the headlights' effect that a jounin really shouldnt be going through, and he needs to work on that =P
oh, keo, I just looked, its in the manga too. ch 164 p9-10
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-17, 09:47
kazuma, im fairly certain that naruto is just obliged to do something fancy and "kickass" at least once every arc while redeeming himself from a prior whupping, no matter how ridiculous and unrealistic the situation is. Its a side effect of being the number one main character of the friggin manga/anime. If you'll remember, he won vs kiba by a FART.
Kabuto was unrealistically shocked by naruto's sudden retaliation..A 'deer in the headlights' effect that a jounin really shouldnt be going through, and he needs to work on that =P
oh, keo, I just looked, its in the manga too. ch 164 p9-10
MoogleHunter, in this topic all I am proving is that kabuto isn't all that high and mighty like ppl are making him out to be and can be beaten by neji with the abilities kabuto has shown so far. As I said earlier, all you guys have to do is prove to me in a sensible way as to why kabuto who is a jounin(kakashi lvl) after taking soldier pills and crippling naruto got caught by naruto. Also explain to me why he couldn't get away from naruto after seeing naruto making rasengan. If kabuto is all that high and mighty than he wouldn't have gotten caught and neither would he have gotten hit by rasengan. I am sure everyone here agrees with me when I say that neji is faster than naruto which is what is needed for neji in the battle against kabuto.
Just answer the two questions in a sensible way and I will give up my entire point. If you can't than you should just admit that kabuto can be beaten by neji.
Edit: hokagenaruto, apology accepted.
Care to point out which post I haven't any point at all.
[...]
If you go back and look at the posts, it is me who is replying and answering most of the points but nobody is even answering the questions I raised. Do you care to answer my questions.
I will not bother to put quotes of every single of your post in this one.
So for the 3rd times now, give me a point showing that Kabuto should be crushed by Neji.
That shouldn't be so hard if your posts are so full of it.
But I only saw you saying that Neji being specialized in Taijutsu and Kabuto's not then Kabuto would crushed.
Which isn't even worth a smirk.
Genma and the other guy aren't special jounins. They are normal jounins and who cares if they got their asses handed by sound 4 when they were low(not out of chakra) on chakra.
Genma, Hayate, Anko, Ibiki, Raido, and Ebisu are Tokubetsu (Special) Jounin, it's stated in the Data Book.
Then who cares?
This is what you call answering to a point? You're just avoiding to answer as you do since the beginning of this thread.
The 4 Sound had to go all out together because they were fighting them, they bluntly admitted that they had no choice because otherwise they would have been crushed.
Get it now? The fight between Neji and Kidoumaru was but a draw before that the spider dude started to use his Cursed seal.
That's the level of power of Neji.
Against Genma and Raidou the 4 Sound had to fight at their maximum strength immediately at 4vs.2 whereas their opponent weren't even at full strenght because they were very tired.
And still Genma and Raidou aren't at the level of some elite Jounin such as Gai and Kakashi.
Kakashi which is presented as equally strong than Kabuto several times in the manga by both Orochimaru and Jiraiya without talking of Kakashi's comment about it.
That is a difference of strength.
The way everyone is saying here genins/chuunins are nothing compared to jounins means that you get pwned in just about all the scenarios. If you don't see my point of ranks don't matter than can you care to explain why tsunade got beat by kabuto.
Your point about rank is stupid at the least, indeed rank isn't an absolute indication of a precise amount of strength and indeed you can find exception to the rule with Itachi being a Chuunin when he annihilated the Uchiha clan or Genin being stronger than they should be because they have demon/living spirit sealed in them.
But in the vast majority of case Genin are weaker than Chuunin who are weaker than Jounin who are weaker than Kage.
Even if the Genin that we talk about is obviously Chuunin level in pure strength or he wouldn't even have been allowed to participate to the Chuunin exam, that's still far to go to the Jounin level.
Especially to a Jounin being said as strong as Kakashi one of the strongest Jounin in the whole story.
And Tsunade who hadn't fight and who had left the ninja way since about 25~30 years, who had lost her purpose and spirit with the death of her loved ones and who had a blood phobia was still a huge match for one of this strongest jounin level ninja of the whole story, more than that at the end Kabuto was forced to cut his own wrist to use this blood desease because Tsunade's attacks were overwhelming him.
And she hadn't even recovered her edge as when she finally returned to her Nindo and crushed Manda and Oro something that Kabuto can only dream of.
Also while you are at it try to explain why zabuza said that haku would be a better fighter against kakashi.
Because Zabuza didn't know enough about the Sharingan and thus underestimated it?
The predicting ability of the Sharingan was the absolute worst match for Haku's Demonic Mirror, heck Haku wasn't able to touch Sasuke after a while because Sasuke's SHaringan was awakening.
Sasuke which is and particulary was less than Kakashi in any ways.
Haku would have been slaughtered.
As for neji being crushed by kidoumaru when he started using curse seal is true. I never disagreed with that. Also as I have mentioned dif types of fighting styles has advantages and disadvantages against other styles, neji is a close ranged fighter compared to kidoumaru who is a long range fighter. Fighting long range fighters is a big disadv for neji while anyone who fights using taijutsu has a big disadv against neji b/c of neji's byakugan.
Blah blah blah the Byakugan and Jyuken isn't synonym of victory at close combat it just give you an important edge in this particular field especially if your opponent is around the same level at you.
Still Neji would be annihilated by Gai, by Kakashi, by Asuma and by basically all the Jounin we saw.
No I do not invent things and neji's speed has improved from the third part of the chuunin exams which you can tell from the fact that he could dodge kidoumaru's ultimate attack arrows within mini seconds from hitting his vitals. Neji wasn't able to do the same thing against naruto during the chuunin finals when naruto surprised neji even though neji saw naruto come out of the ground and uppercut him.
Thanks to prove my point about you inventing things.
Neji wasn't able to avoid the blow, he could only avoid to be killed instantaneously by it and took the hit in his shoulder and not his heart.
More than that he was able to do that no because of an incredible change of speed but because he surrounded himself with a huge aura of chakra which allowed him to feel the presence of the arrow that he couldn't avoid otherwise.
I said male genin in konoha which doesn't include Shikamaru who is a chuunin so get your fact straight hunter.
I do, this isn't a [manga] thread use the spoiler tag when you talk of spoiler.
As for chouji is slower than naruto which is true but shino and naruto's speed is debatable. We never see him move since most of the times he doesn't need to. Hell I will even give you that shino is slower than naruto. As for kishimoto not showing other genins and you bringing it into this debate is pointless if not stupid since your point doesn't prove anything.
Yet it does, the Genins that we're talking about are basically all Chuunin material, that's why they're allowed to participate to the Chuunin exam to begin with.
They lack maturity and leadership, not strength.
Which is why using them as example for regular genin is stupid.
During the sannin fight, kabuto used soldier pill which I have mentioned like 100 times now. It's effect to kabuto's body would make him much more powerful than he normally is. Shizune was messed up by tsunade just like jiraiya so when she fought kabuto she wasn't even close to 100%.
You're still inventing things, Shizune wasn't drugged by Tsunade and soldier pills are merely ninja tool.
Secondly he beat tsunade by cutting his wrist and on the sight of kabuto's blood tsunade freaks out and becomes a 2 year old kid who can't defend herself.
You know that becomes really funny. You did notice that I had to explain you that above because you tried to use the fght Tsunade vs. Kabuto to say exactly the opposite than now?
Try to get your "arguement" straight and stop to contradict yourself, that's not very serious.
Kabuto knew what he was doing when he cut his wrist and knew that it wouldn't be too much of a hindrance. Manga doesn't show anything remotely close that kabuto made a bad decision cutting his wrist and in fact it was perfect strategy. Kabuto came out of this fight in much better shape than you would have ppl think. He used almost zero chakra and there was no sign of exhaustion so plz don't try to explain about how kabuto could have been or was tired and exhausted.
Kabuto used a soldier pill precisely because after their small game "I avoid to be stricken by Tsunade because I don't want to die" while they were leaving the city both him and Tsunade were tired and breathed heavily.
Then Tsunade screwed up his nervous system (funny that's the 2nd times you avoid this point) and even if the fact that to cut his wrist was smart in order to took down Tsunade that doesn't change that he suffered from all that during his next fights.
I would add that you have no idea how many chakra uses the Chakra Scalpel and that anyway Kabuto fought during a long time before he faced Naruto, that his way of moving was still screwed by Tsunade's attack and that he however still faster than Naruto.
I know neji isn't naruto and you know just how many times naruto has lost even though he is the main character of the story. Winning and losing in naruto goes hand in hand.
That's not was I was talking about at all.
Naruto has a main advantage : his opponents become often suddenly stupid when they fight him or he's just plain lucky.
Gaara was just laughting at him and standing like a stone instead of attacking at extremely high speed like against Sasuke, Kabuto standed like a moron letting Naruto hit him whereas he could have done anything from going underground to jump above Naruto to just make a sidestep or whatever, he farted at the roght moment against Kiba, etc.
The fact is that it's difficult to fight the Hero's luck.
Kabuto was faster than naruto and there is no denying the facts. I never said naruto was faster than kabuto. The fact is that naruto is slower than neji. Now during the battle kabuto hit naruto's legs and disabled them so naruto couldn't even move and couldn't do anything. During that instance when naruto was so weak and vulnerable, kabuto charged him but naruto held his attack and held onto him long enough to hit him with rasengan. Naruto did all of this without relying one bit on kyubi's power. I am sure you know all that quite clearly so would you care to explain how exactly naruto did that. This proves for a fact that neji can see kabuto since naruto did it and can keep up with him, we can say that neji can do it also.
Same as the 3 last paragraphs above.
Neji hasn't the hero's luck, Kabuto wasn't in good shape anymore and beside like I said in my first post (and quoted in the previous one)
Except in a particular set of events and unpredictable (yet) circumstances due to storyline reasons, Kabuto would most than probably crush Neji.
Everything's possible if Kishimoto decides to.
Oh yeah and on a side note Naruto did have the Kyubi's eyes when he struck Kabuto with the Rasengan in the manga but whatever.
There are two ways to look at it. One is your way to look at it and the other way is my way to look at it. Naruto is a genin who didn't use kyubi to almost kill kabuto in the fight while kabuto who is at kakashi's level barely managed to kill naruto. I would call it a win since a genin crippled an elite jounin level medic ninja and took him out of the battle.
That's called being in denial.
Even if you refuse to admit that Naruto was the 3rd opponents of Kabuto who suffered damage which were anything but light, the fact is that Naruto was only able to strike Kabuto at the price of his life, strike which only put down Kabuto only for a while.
It was very impressive of Naruto but it was his lose.
Now you are seeing my point after a long time :D
I rather see that to say that Sasuke who's less than Kakashi in every regard, from experience, jutsu, strength, etc. is stronger than Kabuto whereas it was stated several times that Kabuto is as strong as Kakashi is nothing but stupid.
Whomg, Hunter, thats some...
i dont know, l33t stuff...
You got to much time on your hands...sure your name isnt Jason Zimmerman?
Whomg, Hunter, thats some...
i dont know, l33t stuff...
You got to much time on your hands...sure your name isnt Jason Zimmerman?
lol funny enough I was arguing about microeconomy just before I posted that :D
And if it's true that I got way too much time in my hand, this post took me barely 5 minutes, all these points are so discussed to the death that it's merely copy and past from my old posts for the most part ;)
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-17, 13:35
I will not bother to put quotes of every single of your post in this one.
So for the 3rd times now, give me a point showing that Kabuto should be crushed by Neji.
That shouldn't be so hard if your posts are so full of it.
I never said kabuto would be crushed by neji if he went in without being cocky. I said neji will be crushed or beaten in a matter of a few minutes if he went in like he did against naruto so I would advise you to stop putting words in my mouth which I have never said.
But I only saw you saying that Neji being specialized in Taijutsu and Kabuto's not then Kabuto would crushed.
Which isn't even worth a smirk.
READ, my above statement again and understand it before posting same crap again.
Genma, Hayate, Anko, Ibiki, Raido, and Ebisu are Tokubetsu (Special) Jounin, it's stated in the Data Book.
Then who cares?
This is what you call answering to a point? You're just avoiding to answer as you do since the beginning of this thread.
Let's see going by your beliefs jounins(special and elite) are gods compared to chuunins and genins so it shouldn't matter that they were outnumbered and were low on chakra(you don't know how low).
The 4 Sound had to go all out together because they were fighting them, they bluntly admitted that they had no choice because otherwise they would have been crushed.
Get it now? The fight between Neji and Kidoumaru was but a draw before that the spider dude started to use his Cursed seal.
That's the level of power of Neji.
Against Genma and Raidou the 4 Sound had to fight at their maximum strength immediately at 4vs.2 whereas their opponent weren't even at full strenght because they were very tired.
They never admitted that they would be crushed if they didn't go all out. The reason they went all out was b/c they were on a priority mission and couldn't afford to waste so much time chakra and time on them.
And still Genma and Raidou aren't at the level of some elite Jounin such as Gai and Kakashi.
Kakashi which is presented as equally strong than Kabuto several times in the manga by both Orochimaru and Jiraiya without talking of Kakashi's comment about it.
That is a difference of strength.
I don't remember jiraiya saying that kabuto is as strong as kakashi. Care to point out the chapter where he said it. Also kabuto's strength is debatable compared to kakashi b/c oro himself said it that kabuto is at best as strong as kakashi. Everyone here is just assuming he is as strong as kakashi.
Your point about rank is stupid at the least, indeed rank isn't an absolute indication of a precise amount of strength and indeed you can find exception to the rule with Itachi being a Chuunin when he annihilated the Uchiha clan or Genin being stronger than they should be because they have demon/living spirit sealed in them.
Most of the male genins we are seeing in naruto break the rule about genins not being able to beat jounins. Haku who wasn't even from any ninja village was equal to if not better than kakashi. Lee with his gates open can beat half the jounins that we have seen until now for konoha.
But in the vast majority of case Genin are weaker than Chuunin who are weaker than Jounin who are weaker than Kage.
Even if the Genin that we talk about is obviously Chuunin level in pure strength or he wouldn't even have been allowed to participate to the Chuunin exam, that's still far to go to the Jounin level.
Especially to a Jounin being said as strong as Kakashi one of the strongest Jounin in the whole story.
This is where the differenet styles of fighting comes in. If you read my previous posts than you would know what I am talking about.
And Tsunade who hadn't fight and who had left the ninja way since about 25~30 years, who had lost her purpose and spirit with the death of her loved ones and who had a blood phobia was still a huge match for one of this strongest jounin level ninja of the whole story, more than that at the end Kabuto was forced to cut his own wrist to use this blood desease because Tsunade's attacks were overwhelming him.
And she hadn't even recovered her edge as when she finally returned to her Nindo and crushed Manda and Oro something that Kabuto can only dream of.
Of all the slides and images of the fight and even an entire episode in the anime that was devoted to this fight, you never see kabuto break a sweat, show signs of fatigue, exhaustion, injury(except for the wrist) or breathing heavily. Kabuto cut his wrist after tsunade messed up his nervous system and it took him like a minute to figure out 80% of how his systems works again. This was done b/c kabuto knew that he can't take on a sannin by himself without risking death. He knew her weakness and that would be the easiest way to beat her. I would say that when kabuto fought naruto, kabuto was no less than 85% of his power at the minimum considering he had more than enough time to figure out how everything worked and he was on soldier pills which gives you strength, speed and stamina.
Because Zabuza didn't know enough about the Sharingan and thus underestimated it?
The predicting ability of the Sharingan was the absolute worst match for Haku's Demonic Mirror, heck Haku wasn't able to touch Sasuke after a while because Sasuke's SHaringan was awakening.
Sasuke which is and particulary was less than Kakashi in any ways.
Haku would have been slaughtered.
LOL it is funny when you state that haku's worst match is the sharingan's predicting ability. The first time we see haku when he just pretended to kill zabuza, kakashi said that there are ppl out there who are as young as haku and more powerful than himself. You saying that sasuke was dodging haku with his sharingan is stupid when we all know that haku was just playing around with sasuke and naruto and he had no intention of killing either one of them. He was deliberately missing his mark. BTW zabuza said it himself that haku would give kakashi way better fight than himself so I don't where you are getting this crap about haku would get slaughtered against kakashi.
Blah blah blah the Byakugan and Jyuken isn't synonym of victory at close combat it just give you an important edge in this particular field especially if your opponent is around the same level at you.
Still Neji would be annihilated by Gai, by Kakashi, by Asuma and by basically all the Jounin we saw.
I never said its a 100% victory so get the facts straight. I have never said that neji has 100% chance of winning. I have consistently maintained that neji has a better chance of winning than kabuto does in a straight up close fight. This means that neji has < 100% chance of winning but > 50% chance of winning.
Thanks to prove my point about you inventing things.
Neji wasn't able to avoid the blow, he could only avoid to be killed instantaneously by it and took the hit in his shoulder and not his heart.
More than that he was able to do that no because of an incredible change of speed but because he surrounded himself with a huge aura of chakra which allowed him to feel the presence of the arrow that he couldn't avoid otherwise. [QUOTE]
Thx for proving my point that I don't invent things hunter.
I specifically stated so many times that neji was fast enough to avoid critical hits that would mean instant death in micro seconds. A ninja can only release so much chakra around his body. He can't have an aura of chakra more than 1 feet around him since even naruto's kyubi power doesn't do more than 2 feet. This gives him very short time to avoid a critical hit from an arrow that is travelling very very very fast coming straight at him without any sound. In the end he was fast enough to avoid it within micro seconds which is what you just helped me prove. This proves for a fact that he is very fast. Plz feel free to counter this if you can.
[QUOTE]I do, this isn't a [manga] thread use the spoiler tag when you talk of spoiler.
Well I do use spoiler tags but I forgot that they didn't mention this in anime but still I am talking about the current chapter in manga not something that has happened like 100 chapters back.
You're still inventing things, Shizune wasn't drugged by Tsunade and soldier pills are merely ninja tool.
Tsunade knocked out shizune the night before the sannin fight since shizune was asking tsunade whats her decision. Just look at the anime ep again and you will see that shizune isn't 100% when she fought tsunade.
You know that becomes really funny. You did notice that I had to explain you that above because you tried to use the fght Tsunade vs. Kabuto to say exactly the opposite than now?
Try to get your "arguement" straight and stop to contradict yourself, that's not very serious.
? I don't know what you are talking about.
Kabuto used a soldier pill precisely because after their small game "I avoid to be stricken by Tsunade because I don't want to die" while they were leaving the city both him and Tsunade were tired and breathed heavily.
Then Tsunade screwed up his nervous system (funny that's the 2nd times you avoid this point) and even if the fact that to cut his wrist was smart in order to took down Tsunade that doesn't change that he suffered from all that during his next fights.
I would add that you have no idea how many chakra uses the Chakra Scalpel and that anyway Kabuto fought during a long time before he faced Naruto, that his way of moving was still screwed by Tsunade's attack and that he however still faster than Naruto.
Well kabuto and tsunade weren't the only ones who did the running. As a matter of fact naruto is the weakest of all the ppl that fought and he was there running after them. I didn't see naruto get tired or exhausted. If you are gonna count running made kabuto tired and exhausted that he lost his original strength than can I assume that naruto wasn't even close to 100% since he is a mere genin. As for kabuto fighting long time isn't even true compared to the fact that naruto fought all night with his kage bunshins to beat those genins(forget which country)
who were using genjutsu in the chuunin exam. As for how much chakra does kabuto's scalpel takes is something even you don't know. Since he is a jounin keeping a chakra scalpel for like 10 to 20 min shouldn't even matter when a genin can keep up with like 20 kage bunshins all night. Last thing I would like to point out is the fact that kabuto figured out 80% of the movements within a couple of minutes so coupled with the fact that he ate soldier pills, you can say that he was very close to 100% of his full power when he fought naruto.
That's not was I was talking about at all.
Naruto has a main advantage : his opponents become often suddenly stupid when they fight him or he's just plain lucky.
Gaara was just laughting at him and standing like a stone instead of attacking at extremely high speed like against Sasuke, Kabuto standed like a moron letting Naruto hit him whereas he could have done anything from going underground to jump above Naruto to just make a sidestep or whatever, he farted at the roght moment against Kiba, etc.
The fact is that it's difficult to fight the Hero's luck.
wow, blame it on the hero's luck. The fact that a kakashi class jounin couldn't get away from naruto or the fact that he got caught by a crippled genin and almost got killed is all b/c naruto is the main character.
Same as the 3 last paragraphs above.
Neji hasn't the hero's luck, Kabuto wasn't in good shape anymore and beside like I said in my first post (and quoted in the previous one)
Everything's possible if Kishimoto decides to.
Like I stated above kabuto was in good shape when he got to naruto. A kakashi class jounin should have pwned naruto but didn't happen so it only leads to one conclusion which you have to figure out yourself.
Oh yeah and on a side note Naruto did have the Kyubi's eyes when he struck Kabuto with the Rasengan in the manga but whatever.
Which chapter of the manga are you taking this out of. There was not a single sighting of kyubi or its chakra in the entire fight until naruto was dying.
That's called being in denial.
Even if you refuse to admit that Naruto was the 3rd opponents of Kabuto who suffered damage which were anything but light, the fact is that Naruto was only able to strike Kabuto at the price of his life, strike which only put down Kabuto only for a while.
It was very impressive of Naruto but it was his lose.
I am not refusing that naruto was kabuto's 3rd opponent. As for kabuto suffering serious damage is just assumptions. He didn't get hit once by shizune and tsunade could only hurt him enough to mess up only 80% of his body functions at best. If you could show me bruises, cuts, injuries, sweat, fatigue, exhaustion or even heavy breathing once he was done fighting tsunade than you can say that he suffered bad damage. As for naruto being able to strike kabuto at the price of his life doesn't matter since naruto was crippled and couldn't move but was still able to catch kabuto with his one hand. He had enough time to make rasengan and hit kabuto with it but kabuto being a jounin level couldn't get away from naruto. Any other jounin would have atleast been able to dodge the rasengan but kabuto couldn't even do that. As for naruto losing, well I am pretty sure that kabuto is having nightmares that he lost to a no talent ninja.
I rather see that to say that Sasuke who's less than Kakashi in every regard, from experience, jutsu, strength, etc. is stronger than Kabuto whereas it was stated several times that Kabuto is as strong as Kakashi is nothing but stupid.
Sasuke with CS 2 and his 3 dot sharingan would pwn kabuto and thats all there is to it. Sasuke has excellent taijutsu and ninjutsu skills. His eyes can see chakra so kabuto's scalpel is useless. Kabuto's weakness is the fact that sharingan has the predicting ability and unless you have naruto's kyuubi chakra which reacts with its own will, you will lose since sasuke can see what you are doing.
I never said kabuto would be crushed by neji if he went in without being cocky. I said neji will be crushed or beaten in a matter of a few minutes if he went in like he did against naruto so I would advise you to stop putting words in my mouth which I have never said.
READ, my above statement again and understand it before posting same crap again.
Is that a joke?
You defend since the beginning of this thread that Neji is more than a match for Kabuto -and that Sasuke would crush him as well- and now you say that Neji would be crushed.
I keep reading and you continue to make no sense at all, actually that becomes worse.
And btw and for the 4th times now could you give me a point showing that Kabuto should be crushed by Neji?
You seem to have some problem to read this sentence in each of my posts whereas you keep saying that you have plenty of them.
I just ask for a single one, it shouldn't be so hard.
Let's see going by your beliefs jounins(special and elite) are gods compared to chuunins and genins so it shouldn't matter that they were outnumbered and were low on chakra(you don't know how low).
Once again avoiding completely the points deciding now that Special Jounins/Jounins are Gods and thus that it doesn't matter if they're wounded, tired, low on chakra or outnumered.
Well guess what, yes it counts, now could you at least try to answer to the arguments?
Because seriously it begins to become really pitiful.
They never admitted that they would be crushed if they didn't go all out. The reason they went all out was b/c they were on a priority mission and couldn't afford to waste so much time chakra and time on them.
Re-read the manga.
chapter 186, the 4 Sound nin are saying that they lost too much strength by using whith the CS2 but that it couldn't be helped because their opponents were jounin and thus if they tried to conserve energy they may have been defeated.
I don't remember jiraiya saying that kabuto is as strong as kakashi. Care to point out the chapter where he said it. Also kabuto's strength is debatable compared to kakashi b/c oro himself said it that kabuto is at best as strong as kakashi. Everyone here is just assuming he is as strong as kakashi.
Once again re-read the manga, Jiraiya states that in the chapter 165.
Most of the male genins we are seeing in naruto break the rule about genins not being able to beat jounins. Haku who wasn't even from any ninja village was equal to if not better than kakashi. Lee with his gates open can beat half the jounins that we have seen until now for konoha.
Bullshit plain and simple and you should obviously re-read the fight Haku vs. Sasuke.
This is where the differenet styles of fighting comes in. If you read my previous posts than you would know what I am talking about.
You don't answer to the sentences that you quote at all, it's a little tiring after a while.
Of all the slides and images of the fight and even an entire episode in the anime that was devoted to this fight, you never see kabuto break a sweat, show signs of fatigue, exhaustion, injury(except for the wrist) or breathing heavily. Kabuto cut his wrist after tsunade messed up his nervous system and it took him like a minute to figure out 80% of how his systems works again. This was done b/c kabuto knew that he can't take on a sannin by himself without risking death. He knew her weakness and that would be the easiest way to beat her. I would say that when kabuto fought naruto, kabuto was no less than 85% of his power at the minimum considering he had more than enough time to figure out how everything worked and he was on soldier pills which gives you strength, speed and stamina.
Once again re-read the manga.
Kabuto starts to breath heavily and sweat even before he took his pill, actually as a matter of sweat it's difficult to find even one pannel where it's not the case.
And the soldier pill doesn't give you more speed or strength, it's a stimulant full of protein, it increases momentarily the stamina/chakra.
Again explained in the manga...
And you keep avoiding the fact that Kabuto wasn't in his top form which isn't very surprising for a guy who said that to be wounded/outnumered/tired doesn't matter for a Jounin...
Actually look at the first time Naruto attacked Kabuto before he took care of Shizune.
Kabuto whiped Naruto during this little clash in less than 2s.
In just no time, almost at the same instant, Kabuto made a little jump, blinded Naruto with his blood by moving his right hand, countered the kunai of one clone with his own kunai in his left hand, crushed the 2 others clones under his feet, disarmed and grabbed the left clone instantaneously to thraw him over the real Naruto, ending this little clash.
While he was still badly bleeding and whereas Taijutsu isn't even his speciality.
LOL it is funny when you state that haku's worst match is the sharingan's predicting ability. The first time we see haku when he just pretended to kill zabuza, kakashi said that there are ppl out there who are as young as haku and more powerful than himself. You saying that sasuke was dodging haku with his sharingan is stupid when we all know that haku was just playing around with sasuke and naruto and he had no intention of killing either one of them. He was deliberately missing his mark. BTW zabuza said it himself that haku would give kakashi way better fight than himself so I don't where you are getting this crap about haku would get slaughtered against kakashi.
The funny thing is your obvious unability to read the manga for basically every single of your answer.
Haku specifically admited that whereas he was aiming for his vital points, Sasuke was able to avoid to be hit at these vital points and to protect Naruto in the same time and then he wondered if Sasuke was able to thwart his jutsu.
Haku said himself that he made a mistake by attacking directly Sasuke like that, the Demonic Mirrors was his strongest jutsu but it was clearly not the most adapted against a Sharingan user (too bad for Haku he didn't know that Sasuke was an Uchiha).
The fact is that he admitted that he became unable to hit the vital points of Sasuke and was in trouble because he couldn't maintain his speed for too long, that's why he used Naruto as a bait to trap Sasuke to be able to hit him.
Haku was too kind and spared the life of Sasuke when he could have killed him.
But it was when he trapped him with Naruto, before that he clearly admitted that he was in trouble and that his attacks couldn't touch Sasuke anymore.
And it was just Sasuke awakening his Sharingan, Kakashi who's a way more experienced user and could have used it since the beginning would have obliterated Haku.
Without even saying that out of his Mirror Haku was pretty slow and that kakashi wouldn't have had any problem to beat him in this state.
I never said its a 100% victory so get the facts straight. I have never said that neji has 100% chance of winning. I have consistently maintained that neji has a better chance of winning than kabuto does in a straight up close fight. This means that neji has < 100% chance of winning but > 50% chance of winning.
Without any basis.
I will re-said it here as well just in case you didn't see again the question above : could you give me a point showing that Kabuto should be crushed by Neji?
And what's a straight up close fight? Kabuto purposely letting Neji hit him at close combat?
They're Ninja, not boxers.
And Neji isn't Naruto.
Thx for proving my point that I don't invent things hunter.
I specifically stated so many times that neji was fast enough to avoid critical hits that would mean instant death in micro seconds. A ninja can only release so much chakra around his body. He can't have an aura of chakra more than 1 feet around him since even naruto's kyubi power doesn't do more than 2 feet. This gives him very short time to avoid a critical hit from an arrow that is travelling very very very fast coming straight at him without any sound. In the end he was fast enough to avoid it within micro seconds which is what you just helped me prove. This proves for a fact that he is very fast. Plz feel free to counter this if you can.
Actually you just proved once again that you answer beside the point...
Firstly your "point" about aura of chakra is proved wrong by the manga once and once again, what Neji and Naruto did aren't the same thing at all.
Naruto has just so much chakra that it leaks from him sometimes when he's Kyubized whereas Neji purposely extended his chakra all around him, there is a pannel where you can see that the aura of chakra of Neji was extended like 9 or 10 feet all around him.
That still proves that the reflexes of Neji are completely insane, that doesn't prove at all that he increased his speed in a significative way since the Chuunin exam and certainely not to the point not to be completely outmached like he was at this time by the Jounin in this field.
Tsunade knocked out shizune the night before the sannin fight since shizune was asking tsunade whats her decision. Just look at the anime ep again and you will see that shizune isn't 100% when she fought tsunade.
Shizune took a blow hours before, it was never stated neither even hinted that she was weakened so yeah you invent things.
? I don't know what you are talking about.
You don't? Re-read your own post then.
When you take as example Kabuto being a match for Tsunade to show that ranks don't matter but then explain latter that it was only because Tsunade had her phobia because Kabuto isn't as strong as Tsunade.
Screwing yourself your own point.
Well kabuto and tsunade weren't the only ones who did the running. As a matter of fact naruto is the weakest of all the ppl that fought and he was there running after them. I didn't see naruto get tired or exhausted. If you are gonna count running made kabuto tired and exhausted that he lost his original strength than can I assume that naruto wasn't even close to 100% since he is a mere genin.
For god sake, Kabuto and Tsunade were the only one who fought during this travel.
Maybe you missed the place was already all messy by Tsunade's punch when the manga re-started to show them?
As for kabuto fighting long time isn't even true compared to the fact that naruto fought all night with his kage bunshins to beat those genins(forget which country) who were using genjutsu in the chuunin exam. As for how much chakra does kabuto's scalpel takes is something even you don't know. Since he is a jounin keeping a chakra scalpel for like 10 to 20 min shouldn't even matter when a genin can keep up with like 20 kage bunshins all night.
lol that's just amazing each of your point is more ridiculous than the previous one.
So now you take as an example of Genin usual stamina... Naruto.
The guy who has basically the craziest stamina of the whole series due to the presence of the Kyubi inside him.
As a matter of fact, Kabuto was very impressed by Naruto's stamina during this event in the forst of death.
Last thing I would like to point out is the fact that kabuto figured out 80% of the movements within a couple of minutes so coupled with the fact that he ate soldier pills, you can say that he was very close to 100% of his full power when he fought naruto.
Not even close, the soldier pill adds to the stamina allowing to fight without resting during days which was exactly what Kabuto needed given that he started to tire Tsunade in their fight, it doesn't change anything to the fact that he couldn't control his body perfectly, that he suffered from a heavy lose of blood and that he fought two other people before.
wow, blame it on the hero's luck. The fact that a kakashi class jounin couldn't get away from naruto or the fact that he got caught by a crippled genin and almost got killed is all b/c naruto is the main character.
Actually it's pretty much exactly that, people usualy aren't waiting patiently an attack while doing nothing when their opponent is chatting because it's a nice thing to do.
Which is why I mentionned that Neji could win against Kabuto for storyline reason, if the mangaka wants to then everything is possible.
[quot€]Like I stated above kabuto was in good shape when he got to naruto. A kakashi class jounin should have pwned naruto but didn't happen so it only leads to one conclusion which you have to figure out yourself.[/quote]
That your argument is amazingly flawed?
Which chapter of the manga are you taking this out of. There was not a single sighting of kyubi or its chakra in the entire fight until naruto was dying.
End of the chapter 167, just before Kabuto was struck by the Rasengan, Naruto has the beast eyes.
I am not refusing that naruto was kabuto's 3rd opponent. As for kabuto suffering serious damage is just assumptions. He didn't get hit once by shizune and tsunade could only hurt him enough to mess up only 80% of his body functions at best. If you could show me bruises, cuts, injuries, sweat, fatigue, exhaustion or even heavy breathing once he was done fighting tsunade than you can say that he suffered bad damage. As for naruto being able to strike kabuto at the price of his life doesn't matter since naruto was crippled and couldn't move but was still able to catch kabuto with his one hand. He had enough time to make rasengan and hit kabuto with it but kabuto being a jounin level couldn't get away from naruto. Any other jounin would have atleast been able to dodge the rasengan but kabuto couldn't even do that. As for naruto losing, well I am pretty sure that kabuto is having nightmares that he lost to a no talent ninja.
No you're refusing that it make any difference -not wonder since you think that it doesn't matter to be outnumered, wounded and tired for Jounins-
Then for the nth times just re-read the manga, Kabuto was cut (his wrist remember?) he had to fight Shizune which even if he wasn't hit isn't a plaisant walk in a park, he has his nervous system screwed up, etc.
And he was sweating and all with bags under his eyes during basically all the chapters of this fight.
And the fact that Naruto was the one dying at the end of the fight doesn't matter for the outcome of the fight?
Priceless...
Sasuke with CS 2 and his 3 dot sharingan would pwn kabuto and thats all there is to it. Sasuke has excellent taijutsu and ninjutsu skills. His eyes can see chakra so kabuto's scalpel is useless. Kabuto's weakness is the fact that sharingan has the predicting ability and unless you have naruto's kyuubi chakra which reacts with its own will, you will lose since sasuke can see what you are doing.
The chakra Scalpel would be useless because Sasuke can see chakra... :heh:
I'm pretty sure then that the Chidori and Rasengan are very useless against anybody, I mean you can see the chakra as well.
<sarcasm>Kyuubi is worthless against Neji, he can se chakra</sarcasm>
>_>
<_<
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-17, 23:50
Is that a joke?
You defend since the beginning of this thread that Neji is more than a match for Kabuto -and that Sasuke would crush him as well- and now you say that Neji would be crushed.
I keep reading and you continue to make no sense at all, actually that becomes worse.
Yeah I say it again that neji stands a chance against kabuto and I will say it again that the sasuke we just say like 3 chapters back would crush kabuto. I don't want to get into a debate as to why sasuke would crush kabuto since thats a whole dif thread.
And btw and for the 4th times now could you give me a point showing that Kabuto should be crushed by Neji?
You seem to have some problem to read this sentence in each of my posts whereas you keep saying that you have plenty of them.
I just ask for a single one, it shouldn't be so hard.
I answered this sentence in your last post and I hate repeating myself but here I go again. I never said that neji would crush kabuto so get that through your head. Also I never admitted or said that kabuto would crush neji so stop putting words in my mouth. This is the second time you have done that. I have always maintained a postion that neji has better than 50% chance of winning against kabuto but less than 100%.
Since your argument and mine is getting so long I would ask you to answer to this post which I posted earlier. If you can give me a reasonable enough answer as to why the all high and mighty kakashi level jounin got caught by a crippled genin who could barely stand up(forget about walking or dodging). Also naruto who was badly wounded was able to hold onto kabuto long enough to make rasengan(took atleast 5 seconds) and hit him with it. If you can give me a reasonable answer to the above two questions than I will admit that neji will get crushed by kabuto but otherwise there is no basis for me to assume that neji will be crushed by kabuto.
BTW naruto did this all by himself without kyubi's chakra unlike you said he used it. You need to go and look at those beast eyes of naruto on the final page of chapter 167 again since they don't even show naruto's face.
BrownRukus
2004-10-18, 00:07
Yeah I say it again that neji stands a chance against kabuto and I will say it again that the sasuke we just say like 3 chapters back would crush kabuto. I don't want to get into a debate as to why sasuke would crush kabuto since thats a whole dif thread.
I answered this sentence in your last post and I hate repeating myself but here I go again. I never said that neji would crush kabuto so get that through your head. Also I never admitted or said that kabuto would crush neji so stop putting words in my mouth. This is the second time you have done that. I have always maintained a postion that neji has better than 50% chance of winning against kabuto but less than 100%.
Since your argument and mine is getting so long I would ask you to answer to this post which I posted earlier. If you can give me a reasonable enough answer as to why the all high and mighty kakashi level jounin got caught by a crippled genin who could barely stand up(forget about walking or dodging). Also naruto who was badly wounded was able to hold onto kabuto long enough to make rasengan(took atleast 5 seconds) and hit him with it. If you can give me a reasonable answer to the above two questions than I will admit that neji will get crushed by kabuto but otherwise there is no basis for me to assume that neji will be crushed by kabuto.
BTW naruto did this all by himself without kyubi's chakra unlike you said he used it. You need to go and look at those beast eyes of naruto on the final page of chapter 167 again since they don't even show naruto's face.
Why was Kabuto caught by Naruto? Cuz Kabuto is stubborn he could have easily out of the grip but he wanted to see what naruto could do. AFter all he started to gather chakra in his stomach for regeneration before the attack. Hes a data collector, can't collect data without trial and error. Well that's my opinion. And I also think Naruto didn't use Kyubi cuz in Anime there are no beast eyes.
Honestly...as much as I like Neji, Kabuto should be able to handle him, as long as it doesn't end up in a taijutsu fight.
Much like Hyuuga va. pretty much anyone else, if Neji can close the gap it's pretty much over - which is where the question of Kabuto's speed comes in.
This has been my argument all along. Kabuto has shown us nothing in regard to his skill in taijitsu or overall speed, while Neji has shown that in range of his divination, he's no joke in either speed or taijutsu. Kabuto has only shown that he's very smart, nothing more. If that is not the case, please point me in the direction of the manga episode that shows Kabuto is as fast as any of the leaf Jounins we've seen. Neji on the other hand has shown quite clearly in the manga that he's very fast... especially in melee range.
So, until someone can prove to me that Kabuto is really fast or has some serious Gen/Ninjutsu skills, I'll continue to say Neji will beat him in a fight.
BrownRukus
2004-10-18, 09:07
This has been my argument all along. Kabuto has shown us nothing in regard to his skill in taijitsu or overall speed, while Neji has shown that in range of his divination, he's no joke in either speed or taijutsu. Kabuto has only shown that he's very smart, nothing more. If that is not the case, please point me in the direction of the manga episode that shows Kabuto is as fast as any of the leaf Jounins we've seen. Neji on the other hand has shown quite clearly in the manga that he's very fast... especially in melee range.
So, until someone can prove to me that Kabuto is really fast or has some serious Gen/Ninjutsu skills, I'll continue to say Neji will beat him in a fight.
The hospital scene, Kabuto took out 3 anbu with ease and Kakshi even said "The Anbu that he assigned" , which are stronger then the mere ANBU ninja. And i know u ppl don't think Neji is stronger than ANBU. Just cuz u haven't seen Kabuto do anything significant, doesn;t mena hes useless, also what Orchimaru said have u guys forgot? Hes a legendary sannin and he knows power when he see it.
Yeah I say it again that neji stands a chance against kabuto and I will say it again that the sasuke we just say like 3 chapters back would crush kabuto. I don't want to get into a debate as to why sasuke would crush kabuto since thats a whole dif thread.
And especially because you already made a fool of yourself enough for months by saying stuff like "the chakra scalpel is useless against Sasuke because he can see the chakra"?
And now and for the 6th times I will once again ask you for a point showing that Neji could beat Kabuto (given that you seem to dislike the word crush and use it as an escuse to not answer my question).
Also I never admitted or said that kabuto would crush neji so stop putting words in my mouth.
=
I said neji will be crushed or beaten in a matter of a few minutes if he went in like he did against naruto so I would advise you to stop putting words in my mouth which I have never said.
Could you at least read your own posts?
This is the second time you have done that. I have always maintained a postion that neji has better than 50% chance of winning against kabuto but less than 100%.
Wow! less than 100%! That's very objective of you http://kaosounet.free.fr/gif/rolleyes.gif
You maintain this position without points. I keep asking you for a single one and you keep avoiding to answer since now 6 posts.
Since your argument and mine is getting so long I would ask you to answer to this post which I posted earlier.
Yeah btw I find this post a little short compared to the amount of mistakes you tried to state in the previous one, funny enough I also see no answer to a fair amount of my own point.
Did you just dropped all that? Remember that from your own words you were the one supposed to answer while not being answering.
It seems exactly the opposite to me.
I don't feel like copy and past the 95% of my previous post that you didn't answer here, care to do it in the next one or did you definitively give up?
If you can give me a reasonable enough answer as to why the all high and mighty kakashi level jounin got caught by a crippled genin who could barely stand up(forget about walking or dodging). Also naruto who was badly wounded was able to hold onto kabuto long enough to make rasengan(took atleast 5 seconds) and hit him with it. If you can give me a reasonable answer to the above two questions than I will admit that neji will get crushed by kabuto but otherwise there is no basis for me to assume that neji will be crushed by kabuto.
I already answered to that in my two previous posts and I find it especially funny given that you chose not to answer to my last post.
BTW naruto did this all by himself without kyubi's chakra unlike you said he used it. You need to go and look at those beast eyes of naruto on the final page of chapter 167 again since they don't even show naruto's face.
Okay seriously could you try to think at least 3s?
If the page you looked at didn't show Naruto's eyes why didn't you look at the page before?
Chapter 167, page 16 when Naruto is saying that it's the end for Kabuto.
So, until someone can prove to me that Kabuto is really fast or has some serious Gen/Ninjutsu skills, I'll continue to say Neji will beat him in a fight.
lol you mean the guy who used a Genjutsu against hundreds maybe thousands people at the same time and who was said by Tsunade to have more jutsu sense than her in her prime?
lol you mean the guy who used a Genjutsu against hundreds maybe thousands people at the same time and who was said by Tsunade to have more jutsu sense than her in her prime?
That same Genjutsu that Sakura was able to resist? Is that one you're addressing?! Please. Try harder.
The hospital scene, Kabuto took out 3 anbu with ease and Kakshi even said "The Anbu that he assigned" , which are stronger then the mere ANBU ninja. And i know u ppl don't think Neji is stronger than ANBU. Just cuz u haven't seen Kabuto do anything significant, doesn;t mena hes useless, also what Orchimaru said have u guys forgot? Hes a legendary sannin and he knows power when he see it.
We have no idea how easy or hard it was for Kabuto to take them out. It could have been an ambush for all we know (I think it's been stated that a good ambush can take out foes much stronger than you). Not to mention we know for a fact that Kabuto is a bright individual. So him taking out a bunch of ANBU in an undetermined way doesn't really mean alot to me.
BrownRukus
2004-10-18, 10:24
That same Genjutsu that Sakura was able to resist? Is that one you're addressing?! Please. Try harder.
We have no idea how easy or hard it was for Kabuto to take them out. It could have been an ambush for all we know (I think it's been stated that a good ambush can take out foes much stronger than you). Not to mention we know for a fact that Kabuto is a bright individual. So him taking out a bunch of ANBU in an undetermined way doesn't really mean alot to me.
The reason kabuto did that novice genjutsu was to seperate the civllians from the Ninjas, so no interfernce from the crowd would arise
Kabuto beat 3 ANBU, ANBU are special jounin's, they were assigned to a job, they would be aware of enemies, cuz Kakashi must have told them Orchimaru wants Sasuke.
That same Genjutsu that Sakura was able to resist? Is that one you're addressing?! Please. Try harder.
From Kakashi's own words Sakura is supposed to be particularu talented in Genjutsu.
To be frank I also want to say yeah right when I heard that, but that's what the manga states, deal with it.
Besides that doesn't change anything to the fact that Kabuto used a Genjutsu against hundreds/thousands people at the same time, people who wasn't composed of civilian only but Ninja as well.
I note also that you didn't answer to the point about Tsunade saying that Kabuto's jutsu sense and sharpness were better that her in her prime.
We have no idea how easy or hard it was for Kabuto to take them out. It could have been an ambush for all we know (I think it's been stated that a good ambush can take out foes much stronger than you). Not to mention we know for a fact that Kabuto is a bright individual. So him taking out a bunch of ANBU in an undetermined way doesn't really mean alot to me.
They're Ninjas, not boxers.
If Kabuto was able to take 3 Anbu on duty and thus on their guard without making a fuss and took the time to made a trap with their body which fooled Kakashi in a hospital without the awareness of anyone then it's really impressive.
Impressive enough to worry Kakashi and make him thought that his current state wouldn't be enough.
Once again you refuse what the manga showed because it doesn't stick with your point.
ANBU is not a higher class Jounnin, its a hgher class chunnin, hunter-nins are special jounins. =) Atleast i think so=P I've heard it somewhere=P
From Kakashi's own words Sakura is supposed to be particularu talented in Genjutsu.
To be frank I also want to say yeah right when I heard that, but that's what the manga states, deal with it.
Besides that doesn't change anything to the fact that Kabuto used a Genjutsu against hundreds/thousands people at the same time, people who wasn't composed of civilian only but Ninja as well.
I note also that you didn't answer to the point about Tsunade saying that Kabuto's jutsu sense and sharpness were better that her in her prime.
Shikamaru also resisted the Genjutsu, so Sakura was not the only one.
As for Tsunade's abilities... we have no idea what her level of ability in those fields are compared to others. We only know that she felt that Kabuto was better than her in her prime. She's a medical nin... the best there is. She's also the strongest physically that we know of, but that's all we know for certain. How skilled she is at Genjutsu or Ninjutsu is unknown at this time.
We really don't know how powerful the ANBU are now do we? So, you're just speculating what their strength actually is. We also don't know how Kabuto beat them. So using them as a measuring stick isn't a very good way to make your point.
They're Ninjas, not boxers.
If Kabuto was able to take 3 Anbu on duty and thus on their guard without making a fuss and took the time to made a trap with their body which fooled Kakashi in a hospital without the awareness of anyone then it's really impressive.
Impressive enough to worry Kakashi and make him thought that his current state wouldn't be enough.
Once again you refuse what the manga showed because it doesn't stick with your point.
I agree that Kabuto is impressive. But I'm more impressed with his intelligence than his physical abilities. In fact, I made it clear that Kabuto MUST stay out of Neji's melee range and use is brains to win against him. I don't believe he can win against Neji unless he has a way to attack from afar.
All we've seen from Kabuto his modified Taijutsu. The one time he used Genjutsu Sakura and Shikamaru resisted it. We know he's a great tactician and very bright. We also know that he can heal like crazy. But, Neji can shut down chakra usage, negating his healing. He can also see through genjutsu with his abilities. He has exceptional taijutsu skill and speed (which we know Kabuto isn't particularly the best in either).
Kabuto cannot win in a straight up fight unless he has something up his sleeve that we've not see as of yet (you'd think he'd pull his trick out against Tsunade no?). So unless he can plan in advance against Neji or ambush him in some way, I don't see him winning against Neji.
MoogleHunter
2004-10-18, 12:08
It's quite possible that Kabuto has quite a bit more abilities. He's intelligent, so as to why he doesn't pull out everything against tsunade, is probably because he already knew it wouldnt work against a sannin, and so he made decisions on what to use, which was his chakra scalpel and wit, and for a while it worked. He managed to screw up several of her muscles and get a harsh blow to her chest by feigning to go for her neck.
About Kabutos physical condition during the fight, i think the most neglected thing here is that right after Tsunade screwed with his nervous system, she PUNCHED HIM RIGHT IN THE FACE.
I'm sure that its neglected cause it doesnt look special and its just a punch, but remember that a punch from tsunade is a world of hurt.
Since your argument and mine is getting so long I would ask you to answer to this post which I posted earlier. If you can give me a reasonable enough answer as to why the all high and mighty kakashi level jounin got caught by a crippled genin who could barely stand up(forget about walking or dodging). Also naruto who was badly wounded was able to hold onto kabuto long enough to make rasengan(took atleast 5 seconds) and hit him with it. If you can give me a reasonable answer to the above two questions than I will admit that neji will get crushed by kabuto but otherwise there is no basis for me to assume that neji will be crushed by kabuto.
I gave a reasonable explaination, but apparently it was ignored.
I said before that Kabuto may have been unreasonably shocked by naruto's outburst. Reasonable for having the main character as your opponent.
But still, i'll give some more:
Kabuto may have been just too exhausted (getting punched by tsunade, using up chakra, bleeding excessively) to try to brute force his way out of Naruto's grip, so he instead prepares himself to take the blow to his stomach to be sure that he'll survive, and uses this opening to lay a final blow to naruto, effectively taking care of offense and defense by being hit, instead of using that energy and chakra for simply fleeing. Is that reasonable?
Shikamaru also resisted the Genjutsu, so Sakura was not the only one.
Indeed and those two weren't the only ninja who resisted to it, the point was that Sakura being able to resist to a Genjutsu doesn't mean that the Genjutsu was crap given that she was said to be talented in this field.
As for Tsunade's abilities... we have no idea what her level of ability in those fields are compared to others. We only know that she felt that Kabuto was better than her in her prime. She's a medical nin... the best there is. She's also the strongest physically that we know of, but that's all we know for certain. How skilled she is at Genjutsu or Ninjutsu is unknown at this time.
It's a fact that Tsunade has some crazy Ninjutsu, it's also a fact that she is Legendary as a Sannin along with Oro and Jiraiya since her youth.
Note that she said that Kabuto was better than her in her prime in jutsu sense and sharpness, not in overall strength, I don't believe even one second that Kabuto has the level of the Sannin in their youth.
We really don't know how powerful the ANBU are now do we? So, you're just speculating what their strength actually is. We also don't know how Kabuto beat them. So using them as a measuring stick isn't a very good way to make your point.
It is.
The Anbu basically are the measuring stock of strong people in this series.
They're portrayed strong everytime people talk about them, that's why they're used to show how ridiculously strong people like Oro or even Kabuto (in a less way) are.
I would add that Kabuto killed another Anbu without even being wounded just before the beginning of the last part of the Chuunin exam to disguise himself.
I agree that Kabuto is impressive. But I'm more impressed with his intelligence than his physical abilities. In fact, I made it clear that Kabuto MUST stay out of Neji's melee range and use is brains to win against him. I don't believe he can win against Neji unless he has a way to attack from afar.
All we've seen from Kabuto his modified Taijutsu.
The one time he used Genjutsu Sakura and Shikamaru resisted it. We know he's a great tactician and very bright. We also know that he can heal like crazy. But, Neji can shut down chakra usage, negating his healing. He can also see through genjutsu with his abilities. He has exceptional taijutsu skill and speed (which we know Kabuto isn't particularly the best in either).
Kabuto cannot win in a straight up fight unless he has something up his sleeve that we've not see as of yet (you'd think he'd pull his trick out against Tsunade no?). So unless he can plan in advance against Neji or ambush him in some way, I don't see him winning against Neji.
Every single Jounin we saw so far proved to be fast enough to grab Neji in less than a split second.
If Kabuto was on the same kind - no if Kabuto was even slower than Neji as you say, then Kakashi would have annihilated him in the hospital, he couldn't even have fled the room like he did.
Simple as that.
That would also mean that SHizune and Tsunade, the 5th Hokage, aren't fast enough to escape from Neji whereas she can basically crush Naruto with a finger without he could even avoid once.
You just put Neji able to fight equally against Jounin without any reason.
That would also mean that SHizune and Tsunade, the 5th Hokage, aren't fast enough to escape from Neji whereas she can basically crush Naruto with a finger without he could even avoid once.
You just put Neji able to fight equally against Jounin without any reason.
You fail to point out a few things. Just because Kabuto could match up in a fight against Tsunade doesn't mean that other Jounin could match up to Tsunade in a fight. It also doesn't mean that all the Sannins would have a tough time against Kabuto. Kakashi and Kabuto made it clear that they wouldn't stand a chance against Oro. Kabuto on the other hand felt he had a chance against Tsunade (and did very well I may add). Kabuto also realises he'd have zero chance against Oro. Using your logic, Kabuto, Kakashi and all the other Jounin would have a chance against Oro since Kabuto had a chance against Tsunade. WRONG. Oro would crush any of them in a one on one battle. So such comparisons are flawed.
It's a matter of styles. I don't think Kabuto would stand a chance against Gai (let him try those attacks he used against Tsunade against Gai), but I do think he'd stand a chance against Kakashi and the other Jounin we've seen. Gai is simply too fast and powerful for him in any close quarters setting. But, Gai has always had a tough time against Kakashi. The same way I think Itachi would have had more trouble against Gai than he did with Kakashi. Different styles and the different strengths and weaknesses of each.
As for the whole "they grabbed him a split second!", it was more about a cool scene than anything else. Also you don't mention his possible increase in speed since that point. He didn't even master his defense fully at that point.
You fail to point out a few things. Just because Kabuto could match up in a fight against Tsunade doesn't mean that other Jounin could match up to Tsunade in a fight. It also doesn't mean that all the Sannins would have a tough time against Kabuto. Kakashi and Kabuto made it clear that they wouldn't stand a chance against Oro. Kabuto on the other hand felt he had a chance against Tsunade (and did very well I may add). Kabuto also realises he'd have zero chance against Oro. Using your logic, Kabuto, Kakashi and all the other Jounin would have a chance against Oro since Kabuto had a chance against Tsunade. WRONG. Oro would crush any of them in a one on one battle. So such comparisons are flawed.
Using my logic? You're the one inventing all these comparisons.
Kabuto is fast and good enough to fight Tsunade at close combat and avoid to be hit (and thus to be killed in one blow).
Saying that Neji is faster than Kabuto (again without any basis) means that Neji could beat the 5th Hokage like that.
Meaning basically that any Jounin could annihilate Tsunade.
And it's stupid plain and simple.
It's a matter of styles. I don't think Kabuto would stand a chance against Gai (let him try those attacks he used against Tsunade against Gai), but I do think he'd stand a chance against Kakashi and the other Jounin we've seen. Gai is simply too fast and powerful for him in any close quarters setting. But, Gai has always had a tough time against Kakashi. The same way I think Itachi would have had more trouble against Gai than he did with Kakashi. Different styles and the different strengths and weaknesses of each.
No it's not just a matter of styles or Hinata would be able to beat Jounin level ninja as well.
Different style and particular abilities counts much against people who're about the same strength or who're at least surrounded by their environment of predilection : to beat Gaara in a desert would be nearly impossible for example whereas it would be incredibly easier to take him down on a boat.
We talk here of people who have absolutely not the same level of strength.
As for the whole "they grabbed him a split second!", it was more about a cool scene than anything else. Also you don't mention his possible increase in speed since that point. He didn't even master his defense fully at that point.
Yeah of course, coolness make them traveling and grabbing Neji instantaneously, I should have thought of that earlier http://kaosounet.free.fr/gif/rolleyes.gif
And I did mention that and once again there absolutely nothing in the manga implying in anyways that Neji had a huge improvement of speed, not even a hint.
Oh and Neji unable to do the Kaiten properly at the beginning of the month training is nothing but an anime filler.
Using my logic? You're the one inventing all these comparisons.
Kabuto is fast and good enough to fight Tsunade at close combat and avoid to be hit (and thus to be killed in one blow).
Saying that Neji is faster than Kabuto (again without any basis) means that Neji could beat the 5th Hokage like that.
Meaning basically that any Jounin could annihilate Tsunade.
And it's stupid plain and simple.
Hehe... did you even read what you wrote? Kabuto who admits to not being great at Taijutsu is fast and good enough to fight Tsunade. What does that say about Tsunade's Taijutsu skill? Tsunade's tajiutsu really isn't all of that if Kabuto can hold his own now is it?
From the looks of it, Tsunade basically can survive anything to eventually land that one big punch. That's her only apparent strategy (which in fact is a pretty sound strategy). I don't think Neji can drop enough damage on her to take her down. Eventually she'll corner him like she did Kabuto. So no, I don't think Neji can beat Tsunade. I don't think any of the Jounin can hurt Tsunade enough to stop her from landing at least one punch. Which pretty much ends any fight against her.
No it's not just a matter of styles or Hinata would be able to beat Jounin level ninja as well.
Different style and particular abilities counts much against people who're about the same strength or who're at least surrounded by their environment of predilection : to beat Gaara in a desert would be nearly impossible for example whereas it would be incredibly easier to take him down on a boat.
We talk here of people who have absolutely not the same level of strength.
Shikamaru isn't as powerful as Naruto or Neji, but he reached Chuunin before both of them. Why? Brains. Certainly not because of power. Jounin are not all powerful. If someone who mainly uses genjutsu, do you think they would be able to easily defeat someone that can easily see through it (Sasuke and Neji)? Wouldn't they be at a disadvantage against these people regardless of rank? I say yes. The path they took has it's pluses as well as it's minuses.
Yeah of course, coolness make them traveling and grabbing Neji instantaneously, I should have thought of that earlier http://kaosounet.free.fr/gif/rolleyes.gif
And I did mention that and once again there absolutely nothing in the manga implying in anyways that Neji had a huge improvement of speed, not even a hint.
Oh and Neji unable to do the Kaiten properly at the beginning of the month training is nothing but an anime filler.
Just because they can move at that speed, doesn't mean Kabuto can now does it? He wasn't moving at those speeds against Tsunade or when Naruto grabbed him. Oh yeah... I forgot, you think it was because he was sooooo tired. yeah right.
As for Neji's speed... didn't he cover some serious distance in a flash, while seriously wounded? Didn't he keep up with a kyuubi-fide Naruto and still managed to not take one hit until Naruto finally caught him from underneath the ground? Sounds pretty fast to me.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-18, 17:20
And especially because you already made a fool of yourself enough for months by saying stuff like "the chakra scalpel is useless against Sasuke because he can see the chakra"?
I said that like two days back and this post isn't more than a week old so stop exaggerating. I also said that sasuke's sharingan has the predicting ability and his taijutsu is flawless. There is no jutsu that kabuto can do that sasuke can't copy. We all know just how much sasuke has improved(last few chapters) with basically everything that he has gone up in leaps. You should stop making a fool of yourself by repeating the same shit again and again which I have given you the answers to.
And now and for the 6th times I will once again ask you for a point showing that Neji could beat Kabuto (given that you seem to dislike the word crush and use it as an escuse to not answer my question).
=
Earth to hunter, do you know english b/c if you do than you should know what a crushing defeat is. Let me tell you what a crushing defeat since you are still repeating the same crap again and again and are sounding like a broken harmonica now.
Crushing defeat - when a fighter completely overwhelms his opponent in every department.
This is something I posted a long time back which you have obviously not read. Kabuto thinks too highly of himself as far as we have seen and if he goes in the battle thinking he is gonna crush neji like he did during naruto fight than neji would kill him within a few min. of the fight's start. Sure, I agree that kabuto knows just about everything about neji except for the 1 degree that the byakugan eyes can't see but this weakness won't matter since kabuto doesn't know about it and he isn't a marksman or a ranged fighter like kidoumaru. He also only uses taijutsu/medic nin abilities during his fights. All neji has to do to completely screw over kabuto is seal the tenketsus in kabuto's hands. This can be easily done since kabuto would be attacking with his chakra scaples. Also if neji can dodge arrows and kunais thrown by kidoumaru from hitting his vitals than he can dodge kabuto's scaples.
As for ppl thinking that kabuto still has hidden stuff to show us than you guys should explain why he didn't show it to us when he and orochimaru almost died in the sannin/big boss fight.
Could you at least read your own posts?
Wow! less than 100%! That's very objective of you http://kaosounet.free.fr/gif/rolleyes.gif
You maintain this position without points. I keep asking you for a single one and you keep avoiding to answer since now 6 posts.
Instead of asking me you should go and reread all the posts in the thread and see how many times I have stated my positions and points.
Yeah btw I find this post a little short compared to the amount of mistakes you tried to state in the previous one, funny enough I also see no answer to a fair amount of my own point.
Did you just dropped all that? Remember that from your own words you were the one supposed to answer while not being answering.
It seems exactly the opposite to me.
I don't feel like answering your points b/c your theory has more holes than a slice of swiss cheese. It just gets way too big if you ask me which is why I just asked you to answer the two questions which you are very carefully trying to avoid giving a direct answer to.
I don't feel like copy and past the 95% of my previous post that you didn't answer here, care to do it in the next one or did you definitively give up?
I didn't give up on my stated position and you should explain clearly as to why a crippled naruto caught kabuto and also why kabuto couldn't get away from a crippled naruto who was in a worst state than kabuto.
I already answered to that in my two previous posts and I find it especially funny given that you chose not to answer to my last post.
No you didn't completely answer the two questions that I raised in your last two posts. Now that I have raised some serious questions about kabuto's speed and strength you are just trying to duck and hide from the truth.
Okay seriously could you try to think at least 3s?
If the page you looked at didn't show Naruto's eyes why didn't you look at the page before?
Chapter 167, page 16 when Naruto is saying that it's the end for Kabuto.
I wen through the entire sannin fight and nowhere does it show naruto having beast eyes. I have yet to meet someone who agrees with you saying that naruto had kyubi's beast eyes so you need to seriously go and reread the sannin fight.
BTW since you are sure naruto had kyubi's beast eyes than you should have no problem pointing it out to all of us.
lol you mean the guy who used a Genjutsu against hundreds maybe thousands people at the same time and who was said by Tsunade to have more jutsu sense than her in her prime?
The same genjutsu that shikamaru and sakura countered. As for kabuto having more jutsu sense than tsunade in her prime isnt't anything surprising since his job as a spy was to keep tabs on every shinobi and jutsus in konoha.
Animizzle
2004-10-18, 17:51
I wen through the entire sannin fight and nowhere does it show naruto having beast eyes. I have yet to meet someone who agrees with you saying that naruto had kyubi's beast eyes so you need to seriously go and reread the sannin fight.
BTW since you are sure naruto had kyubi's beast eyes than you should have no problem pointing it out to all of us.
Actually you should polish up the ol' glasses Kazuma, page 17:
http://members.home.nl/dikraaij/naruto%20beast%20rasengan.jpg
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-18, 22:16
Actually you should polish up the ol' glasses Kazuma, page 17:
http://members.home.nl/dikraaij/naruto%20beast%20rasengan.jpg
Oh plz, you need to clean up your glasses before telling me to do that. That's how naruto's eyes always look like. If you want to see beast eyes than just turn to chapter 232/233 and you will see atleast 20 dif. images where naruto has the beast eyes which are shaped pretty close to what kyubi's eyes look like.
BrownRukus
2004-10-18, 22:21
Also in the Anime, his eyes are regular.
Oh plz, you need to clean up your glasses before telling me to do that. That's how naruto's eyes always look like. If you want to see beast eyes than just turn to chapter 232/233 and you will see atleast 20 dif. images where naruto has the beast eyes which are shaped pretty close to what kyubi's eyes look like.
If his eyes are always like that then why are they different in each picture?
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-18, 23:27
If his eyes are always like that then why are they different in each picture?
Did you even see naruto's beast eyes with detail when he is using kyubi powers if not than let me tell you that they are unique. The pic that animizzle is pointing have rounded eyes for naruto at the end while if naruto had beast eyes, its not rounded at all. All I would tell you is to look at the same chapter I pointed animizzle to look at for naruto's beasty eyes.
BrownRukus
2004-10-18, 23:34
The anime clearly shows that it was Naruto, not kyubi-naruto.
socomberetta
2004-10-18, 23:38
What?
In the panel where Naruto is saying, "Compress it, and maintain it!!!", we see him with the slit pupils, which are characteristic of the Kyuubi's eyes.
BrownRukus
2004-10-18, 23:44
What?
In the panel where Naruto is saying, "Compress it, and maintain it!!!", we see him with the slit pupils, which are characteristic of the Kyuubi's eyes.
U must be talking bout the Manga....
socomberetta
2004-10-19, 00:14
U must be talking bout the Manga....
Yeah, how'd you guess? :)
I dont think Naruto was using Kyuubi's chakra at that point. Perhaps whenever Naruto is really concentrating on performing a task or when he gets angry, his pupils switch from normal to the Kyuubi-like slits. Probably doesnt mean anything other than that.
Did you even see naruto's beast eyes with detail when he is using kyubi powers if not than let me tell you that they are unique. The pic that animizzle is pointing have rounded eyes for naruto at the end while if naruto had beast eyes, its not rounded at all. All I would tell you is to look at the same chapter I pointed animizzle to look at for naruto's beasty eyes.
That matters why? His pupils still had the fox characteristics, and his pupils are defenitely not always like that. We've already seen Naruto at varied levels of transformation, so I don't have any trouble believing he was tapping into kyuubi a little bit.
Shadamehr
2004-10-19, 00:46
Christ, I don't understand all these people doubting that Kakashi and Kabuto are close in combat skill. Doesn't anybody ever try to read the author's intent these days? He has dropped many, MANY not-at-all-subtle clues that they are close. He's had TWO SANNIN say completely independently of each other that they are about the same in STRENGTH. He's had a manga page with the margins text screaming about how Kakashi got out-maneuvered by Kabuto. He showed Kabuto fighting evenly with an (admittedly weakened) Tsunade, something Kakashi could certainly do no better than.
Kishimoto's intent was not for people to interpret that as 'as strong as kakashi, but in non-combat areas'. Sheesh.
And if you accept that Kabuto is in a league with Kakashi, it's obvious that Neji is way out-classed. Kakashi can freaking see Neji charging, think to himself "wait, he's really trying to kill Hinata this time!" and jump off the upper level, over the railing, and run all the way across the arena in time to get in between them, while pulling out "come come paradise" for effect.
MoogleHunter
2004-10-19, 02:03
I didn't give up on my stated position and you should explain clearly as to why a crippled naruto caught kabuto and also why kabuto couldn't get away from a crippled naruto who was in a worst state than kabuto.
I especially like how you completely ignore my posts so that you can continue pretending that you've stated something stumping.
No you didn't completely answer the two questions that I raised in your last two posts. Now that I have raised some serious questions about kabuto's speed and strength you are just trying to duck and hide from the truth.
It looks like youre the one hiding. Again, I've shown a spot in my previous posts where kabuto, both in the manga and anime, has shown that he very well can be extremely fast.
From the looks of it, Tsunade basically can survive anything to eventually land that one big punch. That's her only apparent strategy (which in fact is a pretty sound strategy). I don't think Neji can drop enough damage on her to take her down. Eventually she'll corner him like she did Kabuto. So no, I don't think Neji can beat Tsunade. I don't think any of the Jounin can hurt Tsunade enough to stop her from landing at least one punch. Which pretty much ends any fight against her.
Just because they can move at that speed, doesn't mean Kabuto can now does it? He wasn't moving at those speeds against Tsunade or when Naruto grabbed him. Oh yeah... I forgot, you think it was because he was sooooo tired. yeah right.
You contradict yourself.
Does anyone even read what i say?
You say yourself that a hit from tsunade is essentially devestating.
Well, again, TSUNADE PUNCHED KABUTO RIGHT IN THE FACE, and on top of that, his nervous system was completely jacked up and he cut open his hand.
PLEASE stop pretending that Kabuto was having a walk in the park until naruto caught him.
I also have to point out yet again, that Kabuto is capable of the 'instant movement' that the other jounins do. He showed it against tsunade until she screwed with his nerves. Can you really blame him for not continuing to move incredibly fast after that?
For people that argue about a certain fight so much, i'd expect you'd be able to go back and actually read or watch it!
Animizzle
2004-10-19, 04:03
Did you even see naruto's beast eyes with detail when he is using kyubi powers if not than let me tell you that they are unique. The pic that animizzle is pointing have rounded eyes for naruto at the end while if naruto had beast eyes, its not rounded at all. All I would tell you is to look at the same chapter I pointed animizzle to look at for naruto's beasty eyes.
I understand you don't want to believe it because you stated such bold things before so you loss would be even more severe.
However, His pupils are slit and his iris is red on escpecially the right picture dear boy, those are Kyubi eyes, How can they be normal eyes if you look in any random picture where you see Naruto's "normal "eyes. Yes in the pages you show he is in full kyubi mode, how convienent for you!
on the other hand,a picture from the chuunin exam shows Naruto's eye with kyubi eyes:
http://members.home.nl/dikraaij/naruto%20eye%20beaastd.jpg
We could go on and on and exchange pictures but that there and the left picture of my previous posten pic IS a kyubi eye, no mistaking that.
And brownrukus, The manga is the original of the story. Thus it doesn't matter what the anime shows unless the discussion is specifically about the anime.
BrownRukus
2004-10-19, 08:12
I understand you don't want to believe it because you stated such bold things before so you loss would be even more severe.
However, His pupils are slit and his iris is red on escpecially the right picture dear boy, those are Kyubi eyes, How can they be normal eyes if you look in any random picture where you see Naruto's "normal "eyes. Yes in the pages you show he is in full kyubi mode, how convienent for you!
on the other hand,a picture from the chuunin exam shows Naruto's eye with kyubi eyes:
http://members.home.nl/dikraaij/naruto%20eye%20beaastd.jpg
We could go on and on and exchange pictures but that there and the left picture of my previous posten pic IS a kyubi eye, no mistaking that.
And brownrukus, The manga is the original of the story. Thus it doesn't matter what the anime shows unless the discussion is specifically about the anime.
SO ur saying the Manga shows Kyubi eyes and the Anime doesn't? i don't think that Anime team would screw up that much. If it's Kyubi in Manga, the Anime team has to show it in the Anime
It would be easy for them to miss the eye like that, considering he didn't do a major transformation as seen vs. Haku and Neji.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-19, 08:39
I especially like how you completely ignore my posts so that you can continue pretending that you've stated something stumping.
It looks like youre the one hiding. Again, I've shown a spot in my previous posts where kabuto, both in the manga and anime, has shown that he very well can be extremely fast.
And I have shown in my previous posts that kabuto isn't as fast as you guys think he is. If he was so damn fast than why did he get caught by a naruto who could barely stand up. Naruto was able to clearly track kabuto and his attack and effectively blocked it and countered it without using kyubi powers. Naruto is weaker at taijutsu than neji and ppl's argument is basically running along the lines of kurenai is the slowest jounin and she was all over him without him even noticing in the chuunin exam. What does this mean? It's time for you to prove why naruto who is weaker at taijutsu than neji, could see someone who is supposedly way faster than kurenai but neji who is faster than naruto wasn't able to see kurenai.
You contradict yourself.
Does anyone even read what i say?
You say yourself that a hit from tsunade is essentially devestating.
Well, again, TSUNADE PUNCHED KABUTO RIGHT IN THE FACE, and on top of that, his nervous system was completely jacked up and he cut open his hand.
PLEASE stop pretending that Kabuto was having a walk in the park until naruto caught him.
I also have to point out yet again, that Kabuto is capable of the 'instant movement' that the other jounins do. He showed it against tsunade until she screwed with his nerves. Can you really blame him for not continuing to move incredibly fast after that?
The fact is that kabuto got hit by tsunade like once in the entire fight. The fact is that tsunade's bicep muscles were cut by kabuto's chakra scalpel which didn't allow her to use the strength she is so famous for when she landed that punch right across his face. The fact is that even though tsunade messed up kabuto's nervous system, kabuto figured out what the whole movement part of his body in under 2 minutes. The fact is that shizune wasn't able to do anything to kabuto and kabuto beat shizune without expending any chakra. The fact is that kabuto ate soldier pills which is according to hunter suppose to give you chakra/stamina. The fact is that kabuto came out of this fight with very minor injuries.
As for blood loss, you should go and reread the sannin fight where kabuto says to tsunade that he will sprinkle just enough blood so that he freaks her out and will be easy enough to kill. Kabuto knew what he was doing when he cut his wrist and knows that the effects would be minor at best since he is not stupid to leave himself in such a vulnerable state in front of 2 sannins and a jounin.
For people that argue about a certain fight so much, i'd expect you'd be able to go back and actually read or watch it!
I would expect you to read the manga again since you obviously didn't know about the fact that kabuto disabled tsunade's strength by cutting her bicep muscles. This is shown in the manga and the dif between the punch that tsunade dilivered to shizune and kabuto is the fact that shizune got knocked out and was messed up during the sannin fight while kabuto just went along as if nothing had happened.
Animizzle, I don't know how you can tell me that naruto's iris is red since the pic you showed me is black and white. The pic that you are pointing at isn't even a very good pic but I will go along with what you say if you can tell me why was naruto's chakra blue or the fact that why didn't any of sannins or kabuto notice naruto use kyubi. Also another glaring mistake in that pic if naruto was using kyubi is the fact that naruto doesn't have any noticeable signs of long nails/claws, fangs or whiskers like my pic shows and any other pic shows when naruto is using kyubi's chakra.
You contradict yourself.
Does anyone even read what i say?
You say yourself that a hit from tsunade is essentially devestating.
Well, again, TSUNADE PUNCHED KABUTO RIGHT IN THE FACE, and on top of that, his nervous system was completely jacked up and he cut open his hand.
PLEASE stop pretending that Kabuto was having a walk in the park until naruto caught him.
I also have to point out yet again, that Kabuto is capable of the 'instant movement' that the other jounins do. He showed it against tsunade until she screwed with his nerves. Can you really blame him for not continuing to move incredibly fast after that?
For people that argue about a certain fight so much, i'd expect you'd be able to go back and actually read or watch it!
Kabuto can regenerate extremely fast enabling him to survive that hit. His chakra scalpels also worked very well for him against Tsunade. I don't see Kakashi doing the same because he has neither the scalpels or the regenerative abilities of Kabuto. So no, I don't think Kakashi would stand a chance against Tsunade (sure, he could run for a bit, but at some point she's just wear him down and punch his head off).
Let me take this in a different direction. Neji has shown that he's been able to keep up with and beat Lee (but not if Lee opened the gates). Do you think Kabuto is as fast as Lee without the weights? Has Kabuto shown clearly that he has such speed? Because I didn't see any of that speed when he fought Tsunade or when he was caught by Naruto (Neji was able to keep up with a Kyuubi-fide Naruto as well).
Animizzle, I don't know how you can tell me that naruto's iris is red since the pic you showed me is black and white. The pic that you are pointing at isn't even a very good pic but I will go along with what you say if you can tell me why was naruto's chakra blue or the fact that why didn't any of sannins or kabuto notice naruto use kyubi. Also another glaring mistake in that pic if naruto was using kyubi is the fact that naruto doesn't have any noticeable signs of long nails/claws, fangs or whiskers like my pic shows and any other pic shows when naruto is using kyubi's chakra.
You're assuming he has to completely transform to be using kyuubi chakra, which hasn't always been the case. I admit that in those pics he likely wasn't using a lot of it, seeing as how he is barely in the early stages of a transformation, but regardless of what color his eyes were, the pupils were transformed into the foxlike pupils, indicating something involving kyuubi's chakra.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-19, 08:53
You're assuming he has to completely transform to be using kyuubi chakra, which hasn't always been the case. I admit that in those pics he likely wasn't using a lot of it, seeing as how he is barely in the early stages of a transformation, but regardless of what color his eyes were, the pupils were transformed into the foxlike pupils, indicating something involving kyuubi's chakra.
Care to explain why naruto's chakra was blue. It is a known fact to all that whenever naruto is hinting at using kyubi's chakra or in early transformation stage, naruto's chakra turns red. All this talk about one freaking eye is just pure speculation and there is nothing that shows in the manga or anime ever showing naruto doing partial transformation.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-19, 09:01
yea... too bad his chakra against neji turned orange/red at one point so like ok
Are you agreeing with me completely or not? I don't quite understand your answer.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-19, 09:10
umm when he fought neji.. his chakra turned red which means he was using the kyubi chakra.. so no im not agreeing with you.
Well you know we are talking about when naruto fought kabuto. I know that naruto used kyubi against neji which is why his physical features changed and his chakra turned to red. I am just trying to prove that naruto didn't use kyubi in the naruto vs kabuto fight which some guys think he did.
Well you know we are talking about when naruto fought kabuto. I know that naruto used kyubi against neji which is why his physical features changed and his chakra turned to red. I am just trying to prove that naruto didn't use kyubi in the naruto vs kabuto fight which some guys think he did.
haha ok its official, im a retard :(
Oh a bunch of posts to answer, that will take some place...
Hehe... did you even read what you wrote? Kabuto who admits to not being great at Taijutsu is fast and good enough to fight Tsunade. What does that say about Tsunade's Taijutsu skill? Tsunade's tajiutsu really isn't all of that if Kabuto can hold his own now is it?
From the looks of it, Tsunade basically can survive anything to eventually land that one big punch. That's her only apparent strategy (which in fact is a pretty sound strategy). I don't think Neji can drop enough damage on her to take her down. Eventually she'll corner him like she did Kabuto. So no, I don't think Neji can beat Tsunade. I don't think any of the Jounin can hurt Tsunade enough to stop her from landing at least one punch. Which pretty much ends any fight against her.
What does that say? That says that Tsunade Taijutsu's skills in her fallen state is still up to a Jounin level even if Taijutsu isn't the main point of Kabuto, not Chuunin level.
And Neji couldn't make enough damage if he's able to strike her? If he can use the 64 hands of Hakke against her she couldn't mold chakra anymore to release her seal and couldn't heal.
You're basically saying that Neji's up to fight against jounin and Kage level ninja.
Shikamaru isn't as powerful as Naruto or Neji, but he reached Chuunin before both of them. Why? Brains. Certainly not because of power. Jounin are not all powerful. If someone who mainly uses genjutsu, do you think they would be able to easily defeat someone that can easily see through it (Sasuke and Neji)? Wouldn't they be at a disadvantage against these people regardless of rank? I say yes. The path they took has it's pluses as well as it's minuses.
All the Genins who were able to make it through the Chuunin exam are Chuunin level, what Naruto, Neji, Sasuke, etc lacked is brain not power.
And the Byakugan sees through things not jutsu.
Except for jutsu like Bunshin or the Genjutsu of the Rain Nin in the forest, the fact to know that it's a Genjutsu doesn't matter.
The Genjutsu that Kurenai used or the Genjutsus of Tayuya are obviously illusions but to know that doesn't change the effect at all when you're taken into it.
Just because they can move at that speed, doesn't mean Kabuto can now does it? He wasn't moving at those speeds against Tsunade or when Naruto grabbed him. Oh yeah... I forgot, you think it was because he was sooooo tired. yeah right.
And again you affirm that without any basis, there isn't any speedometer on the page of the manga.
With this kind of argument I can easily say that the 3rd and Oro are way slower than Lee and Sasuke because they seemed to me faster when they fought other genin.
As for Neji's speed... didn't he cover some serious distance in a flash, while seriously wounded? Didn't he keep up with a kyuubi-fide Naruto and still managed to not take one hit until Naruto finally caught him from underneath the ground? Sounds pretty fast to me.
Use the spoiler tag.
He covered a distance superior to 50m while the spider dude was falling from a tree higher than a building.
While it's fast, it's not the amazingly fast compared to the distance they all cover when they jump through the forest.
Nobody said that Neji is slow, just not as fast as jounin.
And there was no jounin who made any commentary on Neji's and Naruto's speed on the arena.
They were fast yeah, and Neji can deal with greater speed that his own thanks to his Byakugan which allows him to always see where is his opponent.
Which is still way far from Jounins.
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I said that like two days back and this post isn't more than a week old so stop exaggerating.
I didn't say that you're spitting absurdity since several months but enough for several months.
Your posts are so full of mistakes and bad faith that it's amazing.
I also said that sasuke's sharingan has the predicting ability and his taijutsu is flawless. There is no jutsu that kabuto can do that sasuke can't copy. We all know just how much sasuke has improved(last few chapters) with basically everything that he has gone up in leaps. You should stop making a fool of yourself by repeating the same shit again and again which I have given you the answers to.
As much a bloodline is good, it's always the user who makes the difference, to have the Sharingan doesn't mean you can win against anybody especially against people way over your level.
Earth to hunter, do you know english b/c if you do than you should know what a crushing defeat is. Let me tell you what a crushing defeat since you are still repeating the same crap again and again and are sounding like a broken harmonica now.
And and you're still avoiding to answer the question, do you think you will win a toy for the 10th avoidances?
Oh btw, finally you don't want to comment about your two post contradicting each other whereas you said that I was putting words in your mouth?
So unexpected...
Crushing defeat - when a fighter completely overwhelms his opponent in every department.
Yeah right, what about stopping to invent your own deffinition?
It just mean to win by a large margin.
This is something I posted a long time back which you have obviously not read. Kabuto thinks too highly of himself as far as we have seen and if he goes in the battle thinking he is gonna crush neji like he did during naruto fight than neji would kill him within a few min. of the fight's start. Sure, I agree that kabuto knows just about everything about neji except for the 1 degree that the byakugan eyes can't see but this weakness won't matter since kabuto doesn't know about it and he isn't a marksman or a ranged fighter like kidoumaru. He also only uses taijutsu/medic nin abilities during his fights. All neji has to do to completely screw over kabuto is seal the tenketsus in kabuto's hands. This can be easily done since kabuto would be attacking with his chakra scaples. Also if neji can dodge arrows and kunais thrown by kidoumaru from hitting his vitals than he can dodge kabuto's scaples.
I read that, and there isn't a single point into it, you're merely inventing your little fight and thinking that your belief based out of what the manga showed are points.
Instead of asking me you should go and reread all the posts in the thread and see how many times I have stated my positions and points.
That you're amazingly unable to point out since now... 8 or 9 posts?
Did you lost them?
I don't feel like answering your points b/c your theory has more holes than a slice of swiss cheese. It just gets way too big if you ask me which is why I just asked you to answer the two questions which you are very carefully trying to avoid giving a direct answer to.
lol yeah you didn't want to answer because there were so many holes that it was too easy to answer :D
To see how you're exposing so bluntly your bad faith is kind of amusing and sad at the same time.
But more funny than sad I would say.
And I did answer to this two question you even quoted it in one of your previous post.
Take a look at my answers to your 7th and 16th quotes of the post #160 and 11th and 12th quotes of the post #156, oh and now that I look at it basicall all the post #140 after the 3th quote without speaking of several posts of other people that you just ignored even if I don't really agree with their points.
I didn't give up on my stated position and you should explain clearly as to why a crippled naruto caught kabuto and also why kabuto couldn't get away from a crippled naruto who was in a worst state than kabuto.
No you didn't completely answer the two questions that I raised in your last two posts. Now that I have raised some serious questions about kabuto's speed and strength you are just trying to duck and hide from the truth.
The funniest thing about your so called point is that it's not even about mainly about speed, because you said it : why Kabuto didn't try to move during... how many time did you say? 5s?
Indeed there was no speed given that he didn't move, but I would like to heard your bad faith once again so make my day and repeat it again : your point is to say that Kabuto is soo slow that he hasn't the time to make let's say a side step in half a dozen of second?
Oh god you're really a good joke ^^
I wen through the entire sannin fight and nowhere does it show naruto having beast eyes. I have yet to meet someone who agrees with you saying that naruto had kyubi's beast eyes so you need to seriously go and reread the sannin fight.
There is no blinder person than the one who does not want to see hey?
And your posts after this one are even more priceless, Naruto's eyes are always like that :heh:
Yeah right what about saying that the mangaka made a mistake when he drawn Naruto's split eyes?
That would be even better.
The same genjutsu that shikamaru and sakura countered. As for kabuto having more jutsu sense than tsunade in her prime isnt't anything surprising since his job as a spy was to keep tabs on every shinobi and jutsus in konoha.
Surprisingly enough, to keep tabs and using jutsu are two different things.
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Christ, I don't understand all these people doubting that Kakashi and Kabuto are close in combat skill. Doesn't anybody ever try to read the author's intent these days? He has dropped many, MANY not-at-all-subtle clues that they are close. He's had TWO SANNIN say completely independently of each other that they are about the same in STRENGTH. He's had a manga page with the margins text screaming about how Kakashi got out-maneuvered by Kabuto. He showed Kabuto fighting evenly with an (admittedly weakened) Tsunade, something Kakashi could certainly do no better than.
Kishimoto's intent was not for people to interpret that as 'as strong as kakashi, but in non-combat areas'. Sheesh.
And if you accept that Kabuto is in a league with Kakashi, it's obvious that Neji is way out-classed. Kakashi can freaking see Neji charging, think to himself "wait, he's really trying to kill Hinata this time!" and jump off the upper level, over the railing, and run all the way across the arena in time to get in between them, while pulling out "come come paradise" for effect.
Indeed but seriously Shadamehr do you really think logic and reality have any effect on kazuma anymore when you read his post? :p
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So ur saying the Manga shows Kyubi eyes and the Anime doesn't? i don't think that Anime team would screw up that much. If it's Kyubi in Manga, the Anime team has to show it in the Anime
The anime team did that all many time BrownRukus.
A hero for kids using demon too often is obviously not to their likeness so they whipped off most of the moment whre Naruto got the Beast eyes in the manga since the fight with Gaara or at least they let his eyes blue to make it not really obvious.
Naruto had the beast eyes when he summoned Gamabunta against Gaara, he still had them when he threatened him on the ground, he had them also with his bigger marks on his cheeks when he gathered chakra for the Rasengan against Tsunade, he had them when he struck Kabuto, his chakra was all black and in shape of the Kyubi's chakra when he succeeded to pass the second step of the Rasengan for the first time, etc.
That's very usual.
Hideki Keiji
2004-10-19, 11:32
Kabuto can regenerate extremely fast enabling him to survive that hit. His chakra scalpels also worked very well for him against Tsunade. I don't see Kakashi doing the same because he has neither the scalpels or the regenerative abilities of Kabuto. So no, I don't think Kakashi would stand a chance against Tsunade (sure, he could run for a bit, but at some point she's just wear him down and punch his head off).
Why wouldn't Kakashi do better? He has the Sharingan to predict Tsunade's movements, and if Kabuto can keep up with Tsunade, I'm Kakashi can as well.
Let me take this in a different direction. Neji has shown that he's been able to keep up with and beat Lee (but not if Lee opened the gates). Do you think Kabuto is as fast as Lee without the weights? Has Kabuto shown clearly that he has such speed? Because I didn't see any of that speed when he fought Tsunade or when he was caught by Naruto (Neji was able to keep up with a Kyuubi-fide Naruto as well).
Kabuto hasn't shown he is as fast or faster, other than the fact that he can keep up with Tsunade, who as a Jounin must be very fast(by Hunter's logic). Neji hasn't really shown how fast he is comparitvely to Lee either. In every fight that Neji is in he is shown to be faster and more skilled compared to his opponent.
If we were to use the dreaded Character Data Book, we would find these speeds for the Jounins:
Kakashi: 4
Kabuto: 3.5
Gai: 5
Asuma: 4.5
Kurenai: 4
If we use these stats comparatively to show their relative speed, we see that Kabuto is slower than the rest and that Kurenai is equivalent to Kakshi in speed- hardly the slowest. However, generally the Character Data Book is said to be inaccurate, but it should be able to give us an idea on how the Jounins compare to each other, after all, it's form this book that we get the idea that Kurenai is very skilled in Genjutsu.
Think what you will, and be grateful that I'm not bringing out the Genin's stats. :p
Edit: I just have to wait, and Hunter will come and rip apart my post. :)
MoogleHunter
2004-10-19, 11:37
And I have shown in my previous posts that kabuto isn't as fast as you guys think he is. If he was so damn fast than why did he get caught by a naruto who could barely stand up. Naruto was able to clearly track kabuto and his attack and effectively blocked it and countered it without using kyubi powers. Naruto is weaker at taijutsu than neji and ppl's argument is basically running along the lines of kurenai is the slowest jounin and she was all over him without him even noticing in the chuunin exam. What does this mean? It's time for you to prove why naruto who is weaker at taijutsu than neji, could see someone who is supposedly way faster than kurenai but neji who is faster than naruto wasn't able to see kurenai.
The fact is that kabuto got hit by tsunade like once in the entire fight. The fact is that tsunade's bicep muscles were cut by kabuto's chakra scalpel which didn't allow her to use the strength she is so famous for when she landed that punch right across his face. The fact is that even though tsunade messed up kabuto's nervous system, kabuto figured out what the whole movement part of his body in under 2 minutes. The fact is that shizune wasn't able to do anything to kabuto and kabuto beat shizune without expending any chakra. The fact is that kabuto ate soldier pills which is according to hunter suppose to give you chakra/stamina. The fact is that kabuto came out of this fight with very minor injuries.
I already stated that Kabuto was having a TOUGH FIGHT. Just because he can recover and use his body quickly doesnt mean he didnt have to work hard for it. Having to fight in such a condition has got to be exhausting.
I'll also say this again: Kabuto was probably thinking about how to use his remaining chakra against naruto, he either could use that chakra to escape, or use it to survive the rasengan, be able to collect more data on naruto's attack, AND land a finishing blow.
You keep asking the same thing, and i keep throwing you back this response, and you've kept ignoring it and not supplied a reason why kabuto taking the attack wouldnt benefit him when he's at his last pool of chakra for the fight.
Also, Kiba also uses soldier pills. That doesnt mean he's superhumanly inexhaustable, in fact, naruto knocked him out. Im sure it does prolong kabuto's energy, but its not all that justifyable to say that because kabuto ate one, he should be able to handle 3 people, one of them being a sannin, without being exhausted.
Kabuto said during the fight that he was indeed losing too much blood from his wound. which was why he had to take the blood clotting pill!
Also, he did use up chakra fighting shizune, though it was a pretty lame fight. He hit her with a chakra scalpel, and then used a ground justu similar to kakashi's to be able to grab her legs.
Kabuto only hit one of tsunades arms, she just used her other one. you can tell he's being hit with extreme force:
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/MoogleHunter-kabtsu.JPG
the ground is being displaced from the force! What a weak sissy punch that sure was.
Even if you assume that kabuto used chakra to soften the blow..he's still depleting chakra, which would make him more tired.
Let me take this in a different direction. Neji has shown that he's been able to keep up with and beat Lee (but not if Lee opened the gates). Do you think Kabuto is as fast as Lee without the weights? Has Kabuto shown clearly that he has such speed? Because I didn't see any of that speed when he fought Tsunade or when he was caught by Naruto (Neji was able to keep up with a Kyuubi-fide Naruto as well).
lee is a bit extreme, but Kabuto can match up wtih the konoha jounin though:
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/MoogleHunter-kabtsu2.JPG
between the time of this frame and where naruto used rasengan, Kabuto:
-Used chakra on his chakra scalpel as he continued to fight tsunade
-got chopped by tsunade, which was the blow to his nervous system
-got punched by tsunade, which you can see above
-cut himself and bled a lot, as he had to use a blood clotting pill later
-brawled with naruto's kage bunshin
-used chakra scalpel and a ground jutsu on shizune
The biggest thing that probably hampers his movement is the nervous system attack, everyone was suprised that he was even able to move after that, it'd be a little too much to see him zipping along quickly after that hit.
Hideki Keiji I don't see why I would rip apart your post :p
Personally I don't really like to use the Data book to point speed even if of course Neji is showed slower than Kabuto because there is too many stats (especially speed) seeming too weird to me.
Also it's difficult to use these stats for Kabuto because all stats are evaluated by the characters's current performance (which was the beginning of war with the Sand and the Sound) and not by their absolute strength.
Differently speaking Kabuto (among other ninja that we really saw fighting only after this arc) would have way higher stats now.
What does that say? That says that Tsunade Taijutsu's skills in her fallen state is still up to a Jounin level even if Taijutsu isn't the main point of Kabuto, not Chuunin level.
And Neji couldn't make enough damage if he's able to strike her? If he can use the 64 hands of Hakke against her she couldn't mold chakra anymore to release her seal and couldn't heal.
You're basically saying that Neji's up to fight against jounin and Kage level ninja.
We have no idea what that would do to Tsunade. Hell, she got run through with a sword and healed it in seconds. So I'd say I have no idea how much damage the 64 hands of Hakke would inflict on Tsunade, who has mastered her bodies regenerative powers.
I also find it odd that you seem to continue to rate Kabuto's speed so high. Did you miss the episode where Naruto (not a particularly fast person) caught Kabuto (who is suppose to be so far and away faster than Naruto)? Oh yeah.. that doesn't count because it was Naruto. I guess any evidence doesn't count if you don't like it. I understand now. Sorry for looking at the facts.
All the Genins who were able to make it through the Chuunin exam are Chuunin level, what Naruto, Neji, Sasuke, etc lacked is brain not power.
And the Byakugan sees through things not jutsu.
Except for jutsu like Bunshin or the Genjutsu of the Rain Nin in the forest, the fact to know that it's a Genjutsu doesn't matter.
The Genjutsu that Kurenai used or the Genjutsus of Tayuya are obviously illusions but to know that doesn't change the effect at all when you're taken into it.
If he can see through things... wouldn't he be able to see through an illusion created by chakra? He sees chakra as well. So all the illusions would only be chakra to him, and nothing more.
And again you affirm that without any basis, there isn't any speedometer on the page of the manga.
With this kind of argument I can easily say that the 3rd and Oro are way slower than Lee and Sasuke because they seemed to me faster when they fought other genin.
Ummmm, no. We have a very good example of just how fast Kabuto has shown himself to be against Naruto. We've also had to chance to see how fast others are in comparison to Naruto (Gai for example). We know that Naruto is fast while Kyuubi-fide. We know that Neji was able to keep up with a Kyuubi-fide Naruto. We also know that a non-Kyuubi-fide Naruto caught Kabuto and held him. You can make excuses, but those are facts in both the anime and the manga.
So tell me again how fast Kabuto is compared to Genin...
between the time of this frame and where naruto used rasengan, Kabuto:
-Used chakra on his chakra scalpel as he continued to fight tsunade
-got chopped by tsunade, which was the blow to his nervous system
-got punched by tsunade, which you can see above
-cut himself and bled a lot, as he had to use a blood clotting pill later
-brawled with naruto's kage bunshin
-used chakra scalpel and a ground jutsu on shizune
The biggest thing that probably hampers his movement is the nervous system attack, everyone was suprised that he was even able to move after that, it'd be a little too much to see him zipping along quickly after that hit.
So basically you're saying that because he was sooo tired and hurt Kabuto, who is so far and away faster than Naruto that it isn't even funny, got caught and held by him. Sounds like an excuse that's just as bad as the one that said it's Naruto's show, so that why he was able to catch him. Yeah... ok.
So again I say, if Kabuto came at Neji like he did Tsunade, he'd be in trouble. He'd have to stay out of melee range, and try to strike from a distance, or out think Neji in some way or another. He cannot stand there and fight him in hand to hand combat because Neji would win.
Oh, and about that hit. Tsunade also hit Oro and it took him out. Are you saying that Kabuto is stronger than Oro?
Animizzle
2004-10-19, 12:10
Animizzle, I don't know how you can tell me that naruto's iris is red since the pic you showed me is black and white. The pic that you are pointing at isn't even a very good pic but I will go along with what you say if you can tell me why was naruto's chakra blue or the fact that why didn't any of sannins or kabuto notice naruto use kyubi. Also another glaring mistake in that pic if naruto was using kyubi is the fact that naruto doesn't have any noticeable signs of long nails/claws, fangs or whiskers like my pic shows and any other pic shows when naruto is using kyubi's chakra.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
http://members.home.nl/dikraaij/naruto%20beast%20rasengan.jpg <-http://members.home.nl/dikraaij/naruto%20eye%20beaastd.jpg
How is that any different?
because it's black and white? holy shit, you can see both eyes are greyish, so NOT his usual blue,
even the black lines under his eyes are there..
your denial of the obvious amazes us all
tart.
Care to explain why naruto's chakra was blue. It is a known fact to all that whenever naruto is hinting at using kyubi's chakra or in early transformation stage, naruto's chakra turns red. All this talk about one freaking eye is just pure speculation and there is nothing that shows in the manga or anime ever showing naruto doing partial transformation.
One freaking eye means more to some people than others I guess, but hey I didn't draw it so don't ask me. I'm just saying that his eyes are hardly normal, regardless of the rest of him, and indicates something involving kyuubi. Of course you can argue that it is natural for Naruto to have fox-slit eyes, but it isn't... :)
anyway...this is about Kabuto vs. Neji I think so I'm done, though in my opinion Kabuto can probably school Neji 9 out of 10 times :argue:
Hideki Keiji
2004-10-19, 12:33
Hideki Keiji I don't see why I would rip apart your post :p
I dunno, I usually have some flaw that you can see. :heh:
Personally I don't really like to use the Data book to point speed even if of course Neji is showed slower than Kabuto because there is too many stats (especially speed) seeming too weird to me.
0.5 points slower. :uhoh:
Also it's difficult to use these stats for Kabuto because all stats are evaluated by the characters's current performance (which was the beginning of war with the Sand and the Sound) and not by their absolute strength.
Differently speaking Kabuto (among other ninja that we really saw fighting only after this arc) would have way higher stats now.
What? Kabuto's stats are on a level with the Jounins'. His stats are(overall) higher than the special Jounins, greater than or equal to Kurenai and Baki, and close to Kakashi and Gai's. Besides, don't you think that Kishimoto knows how strong his characters are? If I'm not mistaken, he actually wrote that book.
On topic, Kabuto being the smart guy that he is, he would almost definitely win, I'm just not sure how. Which is pretty much what everybody is posting. :heh:
Jeez this thread is still going on? :sad:
Is it that people are still putting up a fight that Neji will win - or has the argument turned into Neji not being able to get totally pwned by Kabuto (which he probably wouldn't)?
Ahh well c'est la vie, Kabuto still wins in my book.
We have no idea what that would do to Tsunade. Hell, she got run through with a sword and healed it in seconds. So I'd say I have no idea how much damage the 64 hands of Hakke would inflict on Tsunade, who has mastered her bodies regenerative powers.
The physical damages of the 64 hands of Hakke wouldn't mean anything for Tsunade neither for Kabuto, I talk of the fact that once your Tenkentsu are closed you can't use and mold your chakra anymore, and thus you can't heal neither regenerate.
I also find it odd that you seem to continue to rate Kabuto's speed so high. Did you miss the episode where Naruto (not a particularly fast person) caught Kabuto (who is suppose to be so far and away faster than Naruto)? Oh yeah.. that doesn't count because it was Naruto. I guess any evidence doesn't count if you don't like it. I understand now. Sorry for looking at the facts.
[...]
Ummmm, no. We have a very good example of just how fast Kabuto has shown himself to be against Naruto. We've also had to chance to see how fast others are in comparison to Naruto (Gai for example). We know that Naruto is fast while Kyuubi-fide. We know that Neji was able to keep up with a Kyuubi-fide Naruto. We also know that a non-Kyuubi-fide Naruto caught Kabuto and held him. You can make excuses, but those are facts in both the anime and the manga.
No I didn't miss that, I didn't miss either how Kabuto crushed instantaneously Naruto and his clones while barely moving at all when he was already wounded and had his nervous system screwed whereas Naruto was perfectly fine, how Kabuto qualified Naruto's movement of slow motion and just how he put down continuously Naruto during all his fight before Naruto sacrified his hand to be able to hold him.
There is just no question about that Kabuto is way faster than Naruto.
Your point is that Kabuto did basically nothing to free himself which makes him very stupid.
It's very true but that has nothing to do with speed.
If he can see through things... wouldn't he be able to see through an illusion created by chakra? He sees chakra as well. So all the illusions would only be chakra to him, and nothing more.
WHat's the point to quote my post if you don't answer to it at all?
Again, even if you know that you're attacked by a Genjutsu that will not help you at all because it doesn't change the effect of the Genjutsu.
On a side note I don't think that most Genjutsu are composed of chakra, they're created with it which is very different.
I dunno, I usually have some flaw that you can see. :heh:
Bah, you only said that Kakashi could have done probably better whish I mostly agree given that Kakashi is more the fighting Ninja type than Kabuto.
0.5 points slower. :uhoh:
Look at the speed of the other genin, 0.5 points can be a freakin' huge difference, without saying that when you see that both Neji and Hinata have the same speed the difference within the same number can be quite important.
What? Kabuto's stats are on a level with the Jounins'. His stats are(overall) higher than the special Jounins, greater than or equal to Kurenai and Baki, and close to Kakashi and Gai's. Besides, don't you think that Kishimoto knows how strong his characters are? If I'm not mistaken, he actually wrote that book.
You miss the point it's not about my opinion, It's stated in the book that the stats are only up to what the ninja showed until then.
I have a question regarding Kakashi vs. Kabuto. If I am not mistaken both Jiraiya and Orochimaru compared them regarding their strength.
Jiraiya may not know the current Kakashi in full power and he does not know well Kabuto. Orochimaru knows Kabuto well but he should not be able to know the current Kakashi (his new jutsus). Then, doesn't it seem the comparisons may not be exactly valid?
I have a question regarding Kakashi vs. Kabuto. If I am not mistaken both Jiraiya and Orochimaru compared them regarding their strength.
Jiraiya may not know the current Kakashi in full power and he does not know well Kabuto. Orochimaru knows Kabuto well but he should not be able to know the current Kakashi (his new jutsus). Then, doesn't it seem the comparisons may not be exactly valid?
Kakashi said himself that he may not be able to beat Kabuto in his current state.
So off he went for a spot of one armed rock climbing. :)
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-19, 17:19
Wow this debate is really heated. I haven't read it all but I'll take my stab at it. Neji can beat most anyone IF he can hit them with the 64 hands of Hakke. But as we saw with his spider opponent (forget his name) there are ways to make that move useless. I think Kabuto is just too smart to get beat by a genin like Neji fighting head on. There were so many factors in the Sannin fight that made Kabuto careless in his fight against Naruto. He got hit with a nerve attack by Tsunade, he underestimated Naruto not realizing the danger, he was distrated by the heat of battle and all this lead to him getting hit by a move he wasn't prepared to handle. The same thing that happened to him with Rasengan could happen to him with the 64 hakke and there would be no way from him to heal as that requires chakra and he has no extra source unlike Naruto. But head on one on one Kabuto vs. Neji? No way. Kabuto's chakra scapel hands are just as deadly as Neji's gentle fist attacks and he can nuetralize Kaiten by going underground just like he did against Shizune and grab Neji's feet severing the nerves at which point Neji would be helpless. And if he hit Neji's heart the way he hit naruto Neji would die with noone to heal him. So I say undercircumstances Neji could beat a skilled jounin like Kabuto. You can sneak up behind a U.S. Marine and hit him over the head with a bat knocking him out. But in a one on one battle Kabuto would out smart a genius like Neji. He outsmarted Kakashi in the hospital and he'd have the upper hand in a fight with Neji. I mean Kabuto took it too a Sannin going head to head. Could Neji beat Tsunade? I don't think so.
Wow this debate is really heated. I haven't read it all but I'll take my stab at it. Neji can beat most anyone IF he can hit them with the 64 hands of Hakke. But as we saw with his spider opponent (forget his name) there are ways to make that move useless. I think Kabuto is just too smart to get beat by a genin like Neji fighting head on. There were so many factors in the Sannin fight that made Kabuto careless in his fight against Naruto. He got hit with a nerve attack by Tsunade, he underestimated Naruto not realizing the danger, he was distrated by the heat of battle and all this lead to him getting hit by a move he wasn't prepared to handle. The same thing that happened to him with Rasengan could happen to him with the 64 hakke and there would be no way from him to heal as that requires chakra and he has no extra source unlike Naruto. But head on one on one Kabuto vs. Neji? No way. Kabuto's chakra scapel hands are just as deadly as Neji's gentle fist attacks and he can nuetralize Kaiten by going underground just like he did against Shizune and grab Neji's feet severing the nerves at which point Neji would be helpless. And if he hit Neji's heart the way he hit naruto Neji would die with noone to heal him. So I say undercircumstances Neji could beat a skilled jounin like Kabuto. You can sneak up behind a U.S. Marine and hit him over the head with a bat knocking him out. But in a one on one battle Kabuto would out smart a genius like Neji. He outsmarted Kakashi in the hospital and he'd have the upper hand in a fight with Neji. I mean Kabuto took it too a Sannin going head to head. Could Neji beat Tsunade? I don't think so.
• Kaiten goes underground, too.
• The Byakugan can most likely see chakra signatures even when underground.
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-19, 18:52
It didn't help him against a simple upper cut from Naruto. With a soldier pill Kabuto was able to out manuver Tsunade who has a very high level taijutsu and his probably faster than Lee (Speculation but you know where I'm going). Technically Naruto got the better of Kabuto he "beat" him. Neji could "beat" him too but in a fight I think Kabuto would defintely win, unless some factor were written in and Neji gained an upperhand. One on One, Kabuto is simply a superior opponent, he is too crafty and too skilled for Neji or Lee or Sasuke or Kankuro or Shino or anyone else who's abilities seem awesome to someone on their level but would get their ass kicked by someone who's not (case in point Lee couldn't even hurt Gaara opening 5 gates but Gai didn't open any and was far more effective in deflecting Gaara's attacks he would likely overpower him if he got serious). I don't like to say rank means everything and Kabuto can do it all just because he is as strong as a Jounin but its just a fact that you don't get ranked that high in the Narutoverse unless you can back it up.
Well ShurikenJay, Neji wasn't using the Byakugan anymore probably because he was too exhausted for that when Naruto struck him from below.
And I think you don't understand the extent of their point.
They say that Kabuto and thus Tsunade and Shizune are slower than Neji.
Actually kazuma even said that Kabuto was weaker than any of the 4 Sound Nin.
Btw Animizzle, isn't your 2nd pic of Naruto's eye upside down? :p
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-19, 20:37
I don't see Neji being faster than Tsunade. If its in the character book than I won't argue it and who says Kabuto is weaker than the 4 sound Nin? I know you've all done this thread to death I'm just putting in my two cents. Neji has an advanced bloodline and he does indeed kick ass but his skill level is not on par with the likes of Kabuto. If you are going to say that Neji can beat Kabuto you're saying Neji can beat his own master Gai who is Kakashi's equal and we know Kabuto is also Kakashi's equal. Thats BS Lee can beat Neji and he is weaker than Gai by default. And if you want to talk different skills instead of pure strength its just goes back to my point that Kabuto would school a Genin of the skill level of Neji. But if that isn't clear than this thread is as hopeless as I heard it was.
Lee can't beat Neji, or am I reading your post wrong?
I don't see Neji being faster than Tsunade. If its in the character book than I won't argue it and who says Kabuto is weaker than the 4 sound Nin? I know you've all done this thread to death I'm just putting in my two cents. Neji has an advanced bloodline and he does indeed kick ass but his skill level is not on par with the likes of Kabuto. If you are going to say that Neji can beat Kabuto you're saying Neji can beat his own master Gai who is Kakashi's equal and we know Kabuto is also Kakashi's equal. Thats BS Lee can beat Neji and he is weaker than Gai by default. And if you want to talk different skills instead of pure strength its just goes back to my point that Kabuto would school a Genin of the skill level of Neji. But if that isn't clear than this thread is as hopeless as I heard it was.
Sounds like you're going back to 'power levels'...
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-19, 23:46
Lee can't beat Neji, or am I reading your post wrong?
Lee's high speed combo would be the end of Neji. Gai said so and even Neji realized this when Lee fought Gaara
Sounds like you're going back to 'power levels'...
That was just a tid bit of facts. Neji's Kaiten is a great absolute defense, however thats all it is is a defense. The only way I see Neji beating Kabuto is if he stopped all his chakra by disabling his tenketsu points. However Kabuto has proven he can handle any attack thrown at him he may even know how to reopen his tenketsu points, but we know for a fact that if Kabuto hit Neji he'd be screwed he can't heal himself. Kabuto would sever nerves in his arms and legs and then hit him in this chest and thats it for Neji. There is no evidence that says Kabuto isn't fast enough and crafty enough to do it.
Lee's high speed combo would be the end of Neji. Gai said so and even Neji realized this when Lee fought Gaara.
Gai said it should be enough, keyword is should. Neji wasn't scared of Lee's combo, he was amazed Lee had that kind of power, hence him saying "when did Lee..?" Notice right after the Lee/Gaara fight Neji didn't care, he commended Lee on his efforts, but in the end was still futile.
That was just a tid bit of facts. Neji's Kaiten is a great absolute defense, however thats all it is is a defense. The only way I see Neji beating Kabuto is if he stopped all his chakra by disabling his tenketsu points. However Kabuto has proven he can handle any attack thrown at him he may even know how to reopen his tenketsu points, but we know for a fact that if Kabuto hit Neji he'd be screwed he can't heal himself. Kabuto would sever nerves in his arms and legs and then hit him in this chest and thats it for Neji. There is no evidence that says Kabuto isn't fast enough and crafty enough to do it.
Some how, I highly doubt Kabuto knows how to open Tenketsu. The whole "If he hit him he's screwed" thing goes both ways, Neji hits with one good shot, there is no regeneration because your dead. Though I don't know if Neji can beat Kabuto. I will say at least Neji will give Kabuto a good challenge. It's been shown in Naruto you can't compare two people by their "stats" as different abilites work better against different people. For instance, Neji is stronger than Lee, but put Neji against Gaara, I don't really see Neji winning. Put Lee against Gaara, Lee has a good chance of winning...........granted he pretty much destroys his body in the process........which kinda defeats the purpose, since you lose anyway......in the end that is.
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-20, 00:15
As for ppl thinking that kabuto still has hidden stuff to show us than you guys should explain why he didn't show it to us when he and orochimaru almost died in the sannin/big boss fight. I'd also like to point something else out. Even though he was fighting the Sanin I don't think Kabuto showed everything he was fully capable of but at the sametime he was definetly trying his hardest. I think he was fighting with skills he thought were best for Tsunade. He feared her strength so he chose chakra scapels to neutalize that. He aslo wanted to end the battle quickly so he sliced his own wrist to expose her weakness. Kabuto was no match for Tsunade and just fought a smart fight to get the upper hand. Chakra scapels aren't his only power. He can summon (although he had to use orochimari's special seal) And he does have Genjutsu skills (He knocked out an entire collisuem of people afterall). If his opponent was Kakashi He'd do something that his best for him. I'm not saying he's a jutsu specialist like Orochimaru but I don't think Kishimoto is done with Kabuto skills he is just a ninja who thrives on surprising his opponent. If they were to fight right now in the manga at full health I believe Kabuto would certainly win. He is Orochimaru's right hand man afterall and we are highly unlikely to see a genin like Neji defeat Kabuto. That fight is reserved for a more sensible opponent like Kakashi.
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-20, 00:20
Gai said it should be enough, keyword is should. Neji wasn't scared of Lee's combo, he was amazed Lee had that kind of power, hence him saying "when did Lee..?" Notice right after the Lee/Gaara fight Neji didn't care, he commended Lee on his efforts, but in the end was still futile.
Some how, I highly doubt Kabuto knows how to open Tenketsu. The whole "If he hit him he's screwed" thing goes both ways, Neji hits with one good shot, there is no regeneration because your dead. Though I don't know if Neji can beat Kabuto. I will say at least Neji will give Kabuto a good challenge. It's been shown in Naruto you can't compare two people by their "stats" as different abilites work better against different people. For instance, Neji is stronger than Lee, but put Neji against Gaara, I don't really see Neji winning. Put Lee against Gaara, Lee has a good chance of winning...........granted he pretty much destroys his body in the process........which kinda defeats the purpose, since you lose anyway......in the end that is.
Agreed I'm getting tired of this debate anyway. Vs. threads are interesting in theory until you realize "Man, we really don't know what would happen" Its not like saying Kakashi vs. Konohamaru thats a no brainer but there is just too much detail and not enough knowledge for this. Both of them are capable of beating each other. I believe Kabuto would win if the fight really happened but its not going to, I'll bet anyone that (except Kishimoto :) ).
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-20, 00:50
Well ShurikenJay, Neji wasn't using the Byakugan anymore probably because he was too exhausted for that when Naruto struck him from below.
Just to jog your memory hunter, neji turned off his byakugan once he saw one of the naruto's clone lying on the ground motionless.
And I think you don't understand the extent of their point.
They say that Kabuto and thus Tsunade and Shizune are slower than Neji.
As usual you are assuming things. I have only raised questions about kabuto's supposed speed that you are so pround of. As I have maintained from the beginning neji's byakugan allows him to see 359 degrees around him and that includes above and under him. Neji has shown to be more than fast enough to track lee's speed which is pretty damn fast and he is really good at taijutsu. Now the tricky part(so read carefully) is the fact that naruto could clearly track kabuto during the sannin fight and naruto was able to counter kabuto when they fought each other. This clearly shows that neji is more than capable enough to track and counter kabuto. Only thing neji has to do in this fight is close all the tenketsus in kabuto's hands which is easier said than done which is the reason I gave neji better than 50% chance of winning(not 100%) compared to kabuto.
Actually kazuma even said that Kabuto was weaker than any of the 4 Sound Nin.
As usual you are putting words in my mouth with that sentence. I have never said that the sound 4 are more powerful than kabuto so get the facts straight and I am getting tired telling you to stop putting words in my mouth.
How is that any different?
because it's black and white? holy shit, you can see both eyes are greyish, so NOT his usual blue,
even the black lines under his eyes are there..
your denial of the obvious amazes us all
tart.
And you just completely avoided what I said in my last couple of posts about why naruto doesn't have his usual fangs, big whiskers/facial burns or the red chakra that he gets when he uses kyubi powers. The second pic that you posted clearly shows naruto's whiskers/facial burns but the pic you posted from chap 167 does not. You are doing nothing more than making assumptions about naruto using kyubi powers.
Oh and it is so grown up of you to start calling ppl names. I am sure you feel like a big man now. Want me to buy you a beer now?
Well I am tired of this debate as well, since there are somethings and opinions that can't be swayed until the said event happens. We will see who wins if this fight ever happens in the future anyways.
its always a speculation as to who wins what and how (hell naruto beat kiba with a fart even though naruto was getting owned) if you take into fact that neji can cut of the opponents tenketsus you could render even the medic useless..yes kubutos level is high but all it takes is 1 wrong move to turn the fight around..also when naruto was able to bind kabuto to do rasengan on him
Animizzle
2004-10-20, 05:28
And you just completely avoided what I said in my last couple of posts about why naruto doesn't have his usual fangs, big whiskers/facial burns or the red chakra that he gets when he uses kyubi powers. The second pic that you posted clearly shows naruto's whiskers/facial burns but the pic you posted from chap 167 does not. You are doing nothing more than making assumptions about naruto using kyubi powers.
hehe, It's so funny that you are accusing Hunter of putting words in your mounth while you are doing the same thing.
Let's "jog" your memory Kazuma,
I wen through the entire sannin fight and nowhere does it show naruto having beast eyes. I have yet to meet someone who agrees with you saying that naruto had kyubi's beast eyes so you need to seriously go and reread the sannin fight.
BTW since you are sure naruto had kyubi's beast eyes than you should have no problem pointing it out to all of us.
You must have come to the painfull conclusion by now that we were talking about beast eyes...where did I mention Whiskers or Fangs? what did you say? nowhere? ah that's good, my sentiments exactly. Putting words in my mounth there bad boy.
Now that that's straightend out, tell me again. Where does Naruto's eyes differ from those pictures?
Oh and it is so grown up of you to start calling ppl names. I am sure you feel like a big man now. Want me to buy you a beer now?
I'v felt like a man for quite some years now, and a beer would be quite nice yes.
Well I am tired of this debate as well, since there are somethings and opinions that can't be swayed until the said event happens. We will see who wins if this fight ever happens in the future anyways.
Ah! The ever original "im tired of this debate" if you jump out it's your loss.
Not that anyone would care. But I just thought i'd let you know.
tart
There's nothing wrong with someone thinking x could beat y.
I truly believe Orochimaru could beat Itach, Jirayia and Tsunade. And no one will make me think otherwise. I think that is the case here, he just simply wont be swayed.
Where do you guys get the idea that Kabuto is as fast as Kakashi and Gai?! Gai is clearly shown to be faster than Kakashi (as said by Sasuke and other sources), yet Kakashi manages to win against Gai. So just because Oro says that Kabuto is at best, equal to Kakashi in power, doesn't mean that he is as fast as Kakashi. I don't think Tsunade is as fast as Gai, but I still think she'd stomp his ass into the ground. Her strength is off the charts, and the only thing that saved Kabuto was the fact that he can heal so quickly. Neither Kakashi or Gai can heal that well.
If all you have is some imaginary speed that no one has seen from Kabuto, then your argument is flawed beyond belief. I still give Kabuto a great chance of winning because I really don't know what he'd come up with. But from what I've seen him do so far, if he tried that against Neji, he's lose.
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-20, 07:11
All I've got to say is everyone who thinks for some reason that Kabuto is slow needs to go back and watch his fight with Tsunade. He owned her. Just because he wasn't portrayed as running at supersonic speeds doesn't mean that he is slow. Neji can probably handle Lee with his weights off yet Gai is apparently much fast than that. And all this about Kabuto being countered by Naruto so Neji can counter him is a weak arguement. Kabuto was hit with a nerve attack and Tsunade even says that throughout the battle he couldn't move the way he wanted to. I'm not saying that he is ultra fast but I'm sure he can keep up with Neji. All we've seen is him use chakra scapels in battle and we know that if he could hit Neji with that alone Neji is done. But anyway speculation speculation speculation. You can all carry on this debate I think its stupid. Neji is one of my favortite Genin but I think even questioning whether or not he can beat an elite jounin like Kabuto just because we see Kabuto fight one way and say "Well hey that wouldn't work on Neji his style is to his disadvantage". Could Neji beat Kakashi too? Whats Kakakshi going to do to Neji after all? He can't copy his moves with Sharingan and Neji can Kaiten chidori. His nin dogs are useless unless he gets him in a situation like he got Zabuza. I guess Neji would just kick his ass because we haven't seen anything that guarantees Kakashi a victory.
Wow, now Kabuto is an elite Jounin. Did I miss the part where he was given Jounin rank and called elite in both the anime and the manga?
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-20, 07:25
Yeah if you missed the part where you heard that Kabuto is a spy for the sound. He didn't fail the chunin exam 6 times because he can't pass it you know. Did you also miss the part where Kakashi acknowledged that Haku is stronger than him? And he isn't even a genin. But Neji is a Chunin at best. It has nothing to do with his age or schooling its his skill.
kazumaofshellbullet
2004-10-20, 07:58
hehe, It's so funny that you are accusing Hunter of putting words in your mounth while you are doing the same thing.
LOL, only thing I will tell you is that hunter is the one who mentioned kyubi's eyes and not me. Just go back and read the post.
Let's "jog" your memory Kazuma,
You must have come to the painfull conclusion by now that we were talking about beast eyes...where did I mention Whiskers or Fangs? what did you say? nowhere? ah that's good, my sentiments exactly. Putting words in my mounth there bad boy.
Now that that's straightend out, tell me again. Where does Naruto's eyes differ from those pictures?
Care to explain why his pupils bent like they are which you are pointing to saying its kyubi's beast eyes. Again I will tell you this slowly so that your slow brain can catch up as to what proof do you have that those eyes you are pointing at are beast eyes. You didn't prove anything by posting that image except give me chances to poke holes in your little theory. Naruto does not get kyubi's beast eyes just b/c he feels like it. The only time that naruto has those eyes are when he is using the kyubi's powers whose side effects give naruto claws, whiskers/side burns, red chakra, fangs and his beast eyes. I am proving that he doesn't have beast eyes b/c he doesn't have any other features that go along with using kyubi's chakra. If you are so damn sure that those are beast eyes than prove it as to why nothing was mentioned about naruto using kyubi either in manga or anime and also why he didn't get any of the other features of kyubi-naruto.
I never mentioned anything about you saying anything about fangs or whiskers so go and read the post again.
Yeah if you missed the part where you heard that Kabuto is a spy for the sound. He didn't fail the chunin exam 6 times because he can't pass it you know. Did you also miss the part where Kakashi acknowledged that Haku is stronger than him? And he isn't even a genin. But Neji is a Chunin at best. It has nothing to do with his age or schooling its his skill.
And that's the point I was trying to get across this entire time! Just because Kabuto is considered at Jounin level, doesn't mean a genin or a chunin cannot beat him. It's about tactics and abilities.
Thanks for making my point.
Sounds like you're going back to 'power levels'...
"power levels" is a reality Raikage, different kind of abilities can be the key of victory against people whose strength isn't so far from each other but that's all.
The Sharingan might be the absolute worse match for a Ninjutsu user but Sasuke wouldn't be a match for Orochimaru at all for example, their level is just too different.
Just to jog your memory hunter, neji turned off his byakugan once he saw one of the naruto's clone lying on the ground motionless.
After so many mistakes of yours I would have thought you would finally start to check the manga before randomly throwing away such affirmation...
So no, the last time Neji had the Byakugan in this fight was when he used the Kaiten for the last time.
When he came out of his hole, exhausted, he didn't have the Byakugan activated.
If it was the case he would have saw the hole and the tunnel under the clone and probably Naruto underground.
Oh btw you seem to have forgotten once again to answer to my post, still too easy to answer so you didn't feel like it?
As usual you are assuming things. I have only raised questions about kabuto's supposed speed that you are so pround of. As I have maintained from the beginning neji's byakugan allows him to see 359 degrees around him and that includes above and under him. Neji has shown to be more than fast enough to track lee's speed which is pretty damn fast and he is really good at taijutsu. Now the tricky part(so read carefully) is the fact that naruto could clearly track kabuto during the sannin fight and naruto was able to counter kabuto when they fought each other. This clearly shows that neji is more than capable enough to track and counter kabuto. Only thing neji has to do in this fight is close all the tenketsus in kabuto's hands which is easier said than done which is the reason I gave neji better than 50% chance of winning(not 100%) compared to kabuto.
Aren't you tired of your own lies sometimes? I mean especially when you post in a forum where anybody can just check your previous statement if they're bored enough to read this discussion in the first place
You keep saying since the beginning that Kabuto is weak as hell in Taijutsu whereas Neji's awesome in this field and thus Kabuto has nothing to beat him.
As usual you are putting words in my mouth with that sentence. I have never said that the sound 4 are more powerful than kabuto so get the facts straight and I am getting tired telling you to stop putting words in my mouth.
Return 4 page ago and read your own posts.
But hey if you changed your mind you will be able to answer these point now :
The 4 Sound had to go all out in curse seal level 2 all together to take down two special jounins, ie way under Kakashi/Gai/Kabuto level and these special Jounins were however very tired and out of chakra due to their long mission.
And it was because as they bluntly admitted, they had no choice because otherwise they could have been beaten.
The fight of Neji against only one of the 4 Sound was at first pretty much a draw between their skills when Kidoumaru wasn't using his CS, and overwhelming victory for Kidoumaru when he started to use the CS.
Actually he started to use the curse seal lvl2 because he had "enough fun".
In the end Neji was able to lead the fight a draw because he understood that he couldn't escape from Kidoumaru's attacks and was able to outsmart him at the very end.
But the difference of power was obvious, from Neji's own words he was weaker by far.
Weaker than the guy who needed to fight along with 3 comrade to take down 2 tired special Jounins
Get it now? The fight between Neji and Kidoumaru was but a draw before that the spider dude even started to use his Cursed seal.
That's the level of power of Neji.
Against Genma and Raidou the 4 Sound had to fight at their maximum strength immediately at 4vs.2 whereas their opponent weren't even at full strenght because they were very tired.
And still Genma and Raidou aren't at the level of some elite Jounin such as Gai and Kakashi.
Kakashi which is presented as equally strong than Kabuto several times in the manga by both Orochimaru and Jiraiya without talking of Kakashi's comment about it.
That is a difference of strength.
And you just completely avoided what I said in my last couple of posts about why naruto doesn't have his usual fangs, big whiskers/facial burns or the red chakra that he gets when he uses kyubi powers. The second pic that you posted clearly shows naruto's whiskers/facial burns but the pic you posted from chap 167 does not. You are doing nothing more than making assumptions about naruto using kyubi powers.
Avoiding what? Not only you're once again trying to change your point when you're proved wrong like animizzle showed but anyway you're still wrong.
Where were the bigger whiskers marks and fangs when Naruto became Kyubized against Neji? When he became Kyubized against Gaara? When he gathered the chakra of the Kyubi against Kisame and Itachi? When he summoned Gamabunta for the 1st and 2nd times?
Oh so Naruto wasn't using the Kyubi as well in these case?
The apparition of the fangs and increasement of his whiskers only happens rarely.
LOL, only thing I will tell you is that hunter is the one who mentioned kyubi's eyes and not me. Just go back and read the post.
:heh:
Really that's such amazing bad faith that it deserves that I waste my time quoting all your post.
=
BTW naruto did this all by himself without kyubi's chakra unlike you said he used it. You need to go and look at those beast eyes of naruto on the final page of chapter 167 again since they don't even show naruto's face.
[...]
I wen through the entire sannin fight and nowhere does it show naruto having beast eyes. I have yet to meet someone who agrees with you saying that naruto had kyubi's beast eyes so you need to seriously go and reread the sannin fight.
BTW since you are sure naruto had kyubi's beast eyes than you should have no problem pointing it out to all of us.
[...]
Oh plz, you need to clean up your glasses before telling me to do that. That's how naruto's eyes always look like. If you want to see beast eyes than just turn to chapter 232/233 and you will see atleast 20 dif. images where naruto has the beast eyes which are shaped pretty close to what kyubi's eyes look like.
[...]
Did you even see naruto's beast eyes with detail when he is using kyubi powers if not than let me tell you that they are unique. The pic that animizzle is pointing have rounded eyes for naruto at the end while if naruto had beast eyes, its not rounded at all.
If this is what you call not mentioning the beast eyes, I wonder what happens when you do.
Btw Kakashi never said that Haku was stronger than him, he didn't even know him never he ever saw him fighting.
He merely said to Naruto that they're people younger than Naruto but stronger than him.
It's just a general statement and Kakashi has a good example of that with Itachi for example.
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-20, 09:22
And that's the point I was trying to get across this entire time! Just because Kabuto is considered at Jounin level, doesn't mean a genin or a chunin cannot beat him. It's about tactics and abilities.
Thanks for making my point.
My point was that technical rank means nothing. Kabuto being technically a Genin doesn't mean that he's on the level of Genin and Chunin. Haku isn't technically a ninja at all but he has been trained by, mastered and execeeded a former Anbu in Zabuza! I never said a Jounin can't be beaten by a genin or chunin. A highly skilled Blue belt in Karate could possibly beat a Black belt. POSSIBLY. I've already stated that Neji is capable of beating Kabuto. He's probably capable of beating Itachi if he could hit his tenketsus. But he's would lose to Itachi because he's not skilled to fight him without being hit by Tsukiyomi. Anyway this is just another fantasy fight and we don't know who would really win. But, we do know that Kabuto could definetly beat Neji if he hit him and we don't know if Neji could beat Kabuto if he closed his tenketsu. Who knows Kabuto might have a pill that manipulates chakra flow and could reopen his tenketsus just like that. Its the only way Neji could win. If he struck his internal organs with the gentle fist technique Kabuto would just heal like he did with the Rasengan. So I think my point is valid when I say based on what we know Kabuto would probably win in a fight. Don't agree? Keep your opinion I don't care.
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-20, 09:33
"power levels" is a reality Raikage, different kind of abilities can be the key of victory against people whose strength isn't so far from each other but that's all.
The Sharingan might be the absolute worse match for a Ninjutsu user but Sasuke wouldn't be a match for Orochimaru at all for example, their level is just too different.
After so many mistakes of yours I would have thought you would finally start to check the manga before randomly throwing away such affirmation...
So no, the last time Neji had the Byakugan in this fight was when he used the Kaiten for the last time.
When he came out of his hole, exhausted, he didn't have the Byakugan activated.
If it was the case he would have saw the hole and the tunnel under the clone and probably Naruto underground.
Oh btw you seem to have forgotten once again to answer to my post, still too easy to answer so you didn't feel like it?
Aren't you tired of your own lies sometimes? I mean especially when you post in a forum where anybody can just check your previous statement if they're bored enough to read this discussion in the first place
You keep saying since the beginning that Kabuto is weak as hell in Taijutsu whereas Neji's awesome in this field and thus Kabuto has nothing to beat him.
Return 4 page ago and read your own posts.
But hey if you changed your mind you will be able to answer these point now :
The 4 Sound had to go all out in curse seal level 2 all together to take down two special jounins, ie way under Kakashi/Gai/Kabuto level and these special Jounins were however very tired and out of chakra due to their long mission.
And it was because as they bluntly admitted, they had no choice because otherwise they could have been beaten.
The fight of Neji against only one of the 4 Sound was at first pretty much a draw between their skills when Kidoumaru wasn't using his CS, and overwhelming victory for Kidoumaru when he started to use the CS.
Actually he started to use the curse seal lvl2 because he had "enough fun".
In the end Neji was able to lead the fight a draw because he understood that he couldn't escape from Kidoumaru's attacks and was able to outsmart him at the very end.
But the difference of power was obvious, from Neji's own words he was weaker by far.
Weaker than the guy who needed to fight along with 3 comrade to take down 2 tired special Jounins
Get it now? The fight between Neji and Kidoumaru was but a draw before that the spider dude even started to use his Cursed seal.
That's the level of power of Neji.
Against Genma and Raidou the 4 Sound had to fight at their maximum strength immediately at 4vs.2 whereas their opponent weren't even at full strenght because they were very tired.
And still Genma and Raidou aren't at the level of some elite Jounin such as Gai and Kakashi.
Kakashi which is presented as equally strong than Kabuto several times in the manga by both Orochimaru and Jiraiya without talking of Kakashi's comment about it.
That is a difference of strength.
Avoiding what? Not only you're once again trying to change your point when you're proved wrong like animizzle showed but anyway you're still wrong.
Where were the bigger whiskers marks and fangs when Naruto became Kyubized against Neji? When he became Kyubized against Gaara? When he gathered the chakra of the Kyubi against Kisame and Itachi? When he summoned Gamabunta for the 1st and 2nd times?
Oh so Naruto wasn't using the Kyubi as well in these case?
The apparition of the fangs and increasement of his whiskers only happens rarely.
:heh:
Really that's such amazing bad faith that it deserves that I waste my time quoting all your post.
=
If this is what you call not mentioning the beast eyes, I wonder what happens when you do.
Btw Kakashi never said that Haku was stronger than him, he didn't even know him never he ever saw him fighting.
He merely said to Naruto that they're people younger than Naruto but stronger than him.
It's just a general statement and Kakashi has a good example of that with Itachi for example.
Hunter I think you said it all man. All one needs to do is read this post to realize Kabuto and Neji are on a different level of power all together and that just because you "might" be at a technical disadvantage the difference in power its too immense. And I hope noone makes a thread about Sasuke beating Orochimaru because he has sharingan, that person should be temporarily banned on the spot.
MoogleHunter
2004-10-20, 09:50
If all you have is some imaginary speed that no one has seen from Kabuto, then your argument is flawed beyond belief.
Imaginary? I spoon fed you a freaking pic!
here it is again anyway:
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/MoogleHunter-kabtsu2.JPG
and where did you get the idea that its our only point? have you even been paying attention? :bash:
I like whenever you guys have a point proven wrong, you ignore it and either state it again, or fail to reply to it. It's really tiresome and annoying, but Hunter has said the rest already :)
I like whenever you guys have a point proven wrong, you ignore it and either state it again, or fail to reply to it. It's really tiresome and annoying, but Hunter has said the rest already :)
And yet Tsunade, who didn't seem to possess that amount of speed, still clocked him. Naruto who definitely isn't that fast caught and held him. Wow... he must really be fast. :twitch: Geez, that right, he was soooo hurt already that he couldn't really move like he wanted to. I keep forgetting that excuse. Or maybe you think that Lee really isn't that fast without the weights (someone that Neji consistently defeated). Or maybe you think a Kyuubi-fide Naruto really isn't that fast, because he couldn't lay a glove on Neji until the very end when he snuck in a good one after digging a tunnel underneath him.
A highly skilled Blue belt in Karate could possibly beat a Black belt. POSSIBLY. I've already stated that Neji is capable of beating Kabuto.
The problem with this comparison is that they are not using the same technique. Kabuto and Neji aren't both using Karate, so that comparison is doesn't work. Let's say that Neji is using Tai-Chi (which I actually think is what it's based on) and Kabuto is using Karate. Kabuto's belt level doesn't mean he'll beat Neji at Neji's lower belt level. In fact, they simply don't compare at all. So you really can't determine who will win based on those rankings.
I said it before and I'll say it again, if Kabuto comes at Neji with only his modified taijutsu (that he's not spectacular at), he's gonna lose.
Just to add one more thing... It's been hinted at over and over again in both the anime and manga that those that are considered geniuses, are much stronger than they appear. Neji is definitely a genius in his clan, and his clan has the most powerful taijutsu technique. Now reread the sentence above this paragraph again to see where I'm coming from.
Kabuto's a genius so I think he's pretty much smart-enough to not come at Neji too hastily with taijutsu techniques.
Also - I'm getting tired of that word.. genius. It's being used all the time now, genius, genius, genius.. Sasuke, kabuto, Neji.. Shikamaru.. who else? Kakashi .. the 3 "genius" ninjas.. oy.
Everyone has their own opinion though, I prefer not to get in a 3 page debate about this. My opinion is Kabuto is smart enough to not fight Neji head-on, and will eventually find a weakness in him. It's true Neji is capable of beating pretty much anyone if he can hit their tenketsus unless they have a second chakra source, but the chances of that happening are greatly lessened when it comes to higher level ninjas.
Also - why do people keep saying "genjutsu is useless against Neji" ?? He can see Chakra, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean a Genjutsu will be rendered useless against him.. especially higher level ones of Itachi and maybe Kurenai.
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-20, 10:32
And yet Tsunade, who didn't seem to possess that amount of speed, still clocked him. Naruto who definitely isn't that fast caught and held him. Wow... he must really be fast. :twitch: Geez, that right, he was soooo hurt already that he couldn't really move like he wanted to. I keep forgetting that excuse. Or maybe you think that Lee really isn't that fast without the weights (someone that Neji consistently defeated). Or maybe you think a Kyuubi-fide Naruto really isn't that fast, because he couldn't lay a glove on Neji until the very end when he snuck in a good one after digging a tunnel underneath him.
The problem with this comparison is that they are not using the same technique. Kabuto and Neji aren't both using Karate, so that comparison is doesn't work. Let's say that Neji is using Tai-Chi (which I actually think is what it's based on) and Kabuto is using Karate. Kabuto's belt level doesn't mean he'll beat Neji at Neji's lower belt level. In fact, they simply don't compare at all. So you really can't determine who will win based on those rankings.
I said it before and I'll say it again, if Kabuto comes at Neji with only his modified taijutsu (that he's not spectacular at), he's gonna lose.
Just to add one more thing... It's been hinted at over and over again in both the anime and manga that those that are considered geniuses, are much stronger than they appear. Neji is definitely a genius in his clan, and his clan has the most powerful taijutsu technique. Now reread the sentence above this paragraph again to see where I'm coming from.
We could argue this crap for 100 pages. The bottomline is we know Kabuto could beat Neji because we know what can defeat Neji. We haven't seen Kabuto beaten. And all you little sarcastic comments are just annoying. Neji has never displayed an intense burst of speed. You are ASSUMING that Lee has fought Neji without weights when the only flashback of them fighting shows a Lee who hasn't even mastered Lotus yet. You don't know how fast Tsunade is she clocked Kabuto on the neck when he was being cocky and does appear to be quite fast. Naruto blocked Kabuto's fist when he tried to strike him with a kunai and yes that was infact at a time when Kabuto was injured and careless so that point is irrelavent Naruto wasn't able to keep up with him when he used Kagebunshin or Rasengan the first time. All of these points are mute. Kabuto was able to catch a Sannin aswell as Shizune with his admittedly weak taijutsu skills. I'm not saying Neji doesn't have the reflexes to defend himself I'm just saying that there is no evidence Kabuto wouldn't do the samething he did to Tsunade and Shizune to Neji. And that there is conclusive proof Kabuto moves could kill Neji. there is no conclusive proof Neji could kill Kabuto in a fight.
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-20, 10:42
Kabuto's a genius so I think he's pretty much smart-enough to not come at Neji too hastily with taijutsu techniques.
Also - I'm getting tired of that word.. genius. It's being used all the time now, genius, genius, genius.. Sasuke, kabuto, Neji.. Shikamaru.. who else? Kakashi .. the 3 "genius" ninjas.. oy.
Everyone has their own opinion though, I prefer not to get in a 3 page debate about this. My opinion is Kabuto is smart enough to not fight Neji head-on, and will eventually find a weakness in him. It's true Neji is capable of beating pretty much anyone if he can hit their tenketsus unless they have a second chakra source, but the chances of that happening are greatly lessened when it comes to higher level ninjas.
Also - why do people keep saying "genjutsu is useless against Neji" ?? He can see Chakra, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean a Genjutsu will be rendered useless against him.. especially higher level ones of Itachi and maybe Kurenai.
You're right I already made the point that Kabuto knows more than Taijutsu and that if he did fight Neji he'd be smart enough not to play to his strengths. He analyzed Tsunade's fighting skills and fought a fight he knew was to his advantage. Kabuto also knew he was no match for a Sannin thats why Orochimaru told him Tsu's weakness so he could end the fight quickly before she got serious. They just seem to ignore these little detail and go by their own assumptions. Sometimes its what you haven't seen yet that makes all the difference. Everything we've seen of Kakashi suggest his style isn't fit to match Neji's but we know its what we haven't seen that would make Kakashi the winner. Maybe he would lose to the Hyuuga's head master Hiashi (or was it Hizashi?) but to Neji? LOGIC PEOPLE!
Everyone is assuming that Neji and Kabuto work at the same speed because Neji isn't that much slower than Lee? And also that Kabuto isn't that much stronger than a genin because he got hit by Naruto's Rasengan? With this it is concluded that Neji is about as strong as Kabuto? Naruto was underestimated and no one knows how fast Lee is compared to Kabuto. I believe Kabuto would beat Neji simply because he is generally stronger than Neji. Even if Neji would be able to react with a Kai-ten in time against Kabuto, due to the strength difference Neji would be the first one to be fatigued. Neji will probably be stronger than Kabuto (and a bunch of other jounins) a long time before he gets the jounin title, but not yet.
Simply put:
Too high speed-, stamina- and strength difference > Byakugan :)
You're right I already made the point that Kabuto knows more than Taijutsu and that if he did fight Neji he'd be smart enough not to play to his strengths. He analyzed Tsunade's fighting skills and fought a fight he knew was to his advantage. Kabuto also knew he was no match for a Sannin thats why Orochimaru told him Tsu's weakness so he could end the fight quickly before she got serious. They just seem to ignore these little detail and go by their own assumptions. Sometimes its what you haven't seen yet that makes all the difference. Everything we've seen of Kakashi suggest his style isn't fit to match Neji's but we know its what we haven't seen that would make Kakashi the winner. Maybe he would lose to the Hyuuga's head master Hiashi (or was it Hizashi?) but to Neji? LOGIC PEOPLE!
No assumptions at all. Actually, you are assuming Kabuto has alot more power than what we've seen so far. I'm not assuming any of that. I'm saying quite clearly that from what we've seen [b]currently[b] of Kabuto's abilities, he would be in trouble if he fought Neji.
The one thing I like about Naruto, is the fights are very much like real life fighting. Just because your opponent is faster, that doesn't mean you'll lose. Just because your opponent is stronger, that doesn't mean you're going to lose. Sometimes, how you fight in comparison to others can be the key to your victory.
So far, all we've seen from Kabuto is modified taijutsu and a bit of genjutsu (that Sakura was about to resist), nothing more. His style of taijutsu, mixed with his ability to heal from any injury makes him an insane fighter, no doubt. Both Gai and Kakashi would have a helluva time trying to beat him. But, neither of them can attack a person's Tenketsu and shut off the flow of chakra that makes Kabuto's healing possible. I don't see Neji beating Kakashi or Gai because they're both good in taijutsu - Gai being an overall master that also the fastest and strongest, and Kakashi being very powerful in genjutsu and ninjutsu.
MysticNinjaJay
2004-10-20, 11:22
No assumptions at all. Actually, you are assuming Kabuto has alot more power than what we've seen so far. I'm not assuming any of that. I'm saying quite clearly that from what we've seen [b]currently[b] of Kabuto's abilities, he would be in trouble if he fought Neji.
The one thing I like about Naruto, is the fights are very much like real life fighting. Just because your opponent is faster, that doesn't mean you'll lose. Just because your opponent is stronger, that doesn't mean you're going to lose. Sometimes, how you fight in comparison to others can be the key to your victory.
So far, all we've seen from Kabuto is modified taijutsu and a bit of genjutsu (that Sakura was about to resist), nothing more. His style of taijutsu, mixed with his ability to heal from any injury makes him an insane fighter, no doubt. Both Gai and Kakashi would have a helluva time trying to beat him. But, neither of them can attack a person's Tenketsu and shut off the flow of chakra that makes Kabuto's healing possible. I don't see Neji beating Kakashi or Gai because they're both good in taijutsu - Gai being an overall master that also the fastest and strongest, and Kakashi being very powerful in genjutsu and ninjutsu.
I do agree that IF Neji could hit Kabuto's tenketsu he would be in trouble, we don't know what Kabuto would do in that situation but we know that would disrupt is chakra and ability to heal and getting them all closed would render him powerless if he didn't have a way to counter that. Just the same Kabuto's chakra scaplels are equally as dangerous. If they engaged in hand to hand combat and Neji were touched on his hands or feet he could not retaliate leaving him helpless aswell and he certainly could do nothing to counter such an attack.
Macbrother
2004-10-20, 11:24
I said it before and I'll say it again, if Kabuto comes at Neji with only his modified taijutsu (that he's not spectacular at), he's gonna lose.
But why would he do that? That's a completely contrived situation, taijutsu is not his strong ponit like Kakashi and Gai, however he has great capabilities in ninjutsu and genjutsu(according to the data book) as well as great regenerative power. It's remotely possible Neji could defeat him if he used Taijutsu alone but that'd be like Gai tying his hands and feet together and then trying to defeat Lee.
Actually, you are assuming Kabuto has alot more power than what we've seen so far. I'm not assuming any of that.
That is a valid assumption, however, given both Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Orochimaru's statements concerning Kabuto. They were all referring to his capabilities in a combat sense, i.e., his ability to fight. Do you really believe someone on the elite jounin level of Konoha would be defeated by someone like Neji. If so, that's a rather poor statement of the combatative ability of Konoha's jounin.
Hideki Keiji
2004-10-20, 12:23
But why would he do that? That's a completely contrived situation, taijutsu is not his strong ponit like Kakashi and Gai, however he has great capabilities in ninjutsu and genjutsu(according to the data book) as well as great regenerative power. It's remotely possible Neji could defeat him if he used Taijutsu alone but that'd be like Gai tying his hands and feet together and then trying to defeat Lee.
Of course it is a contrived situation, the only way Neji could beat Kabuto is if they are in a Taijutsu fight. Kabuto's speed is nullified unless he is much faster than Neji. Neji can beat Lee, by Lee's admission, and Lee is faster and a specialist in Taijutsu as well, however with the Byakugan, Neji can beat Lee. If Kabuto went against Neji with Taijutsu, which he wouldn't do because he is a genius, Neji's great skill, style of fighting, and Byakugan would give him the edge he needs to win, IMO.
:topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff:
But hey if you changed your mind you will be able to answer these point now :
The 4 Sound had to go all out in curse seal level 2 all together to take down two special jounins, ie way under Kakashi/Gai/Kabuto level and these special Jounins were however very tired and out of chakra due to their long mission.
And it was because as they bluntly admitted, they had no choice because otherwise they could have been beaten.
The fight of Neji against only one of the 4 Sound was at first pretty much a draw between their skills when Kidoumaru wasn't using his CS, and overwhelming victory for Kidoumaru when he started to use the CS.
Actually he started to use the curse seal lvl2 because he had "enough fun".
In the end Neji was able to lead the fight a draw because he understood that he couldn't escape from Kidoumaru's attacks and was able to outsmart him at the very end.
But the difference of power was obvious, from Neji's own words he was weaker by far.
Weaker than the guy who needed to fight along with 3 comrade to take down 2 tired special Jounins
Get it now? The fight between Neji and Kidoumaru was but a draw before that the spider dude even started to use his Cursed seal.
That's the level of power of Neji.
Against Genma and Raidou the 4 Sound had to fight at their maximum strength immediately at 4vs.2 whereas their opponent weren't even at full strenght because they were very tired.
This is, in my opinion, not the same thing.
To say that Neji was 'weaker by far' is not right, really. This was more a difference of fighting style/abilities, than anything else. Kido had numerous ways to fight Neji without resorting to Taijustu, and he was able to nullify most of Neji's abilities. Neji's Hakkeshou Rokujuu Yonshou was stopped by his 'armor', his Kaiten was stopped, and Kido had enough projectiles to locate Neji's blindspot.
If Neji had been fighting Sakon or Jiruboru he would have won with far less trouble. Jiroboru was to slow to be able to hit Neji, I believe(Chouji could keep up with him), and Sakon is also a Taijutsu specialist. Against Tayuya, he would be able to take care of her summons like he did Kido's, though he might have lost against her Genjutsu.
If Neji can beat two of the four, possibly at the same time, does that mean he's special jounin level? :p
That's all beside the point, though.
To say that Neji was 'weaker by far' is not right, really.Chapter 196_p16:
Neji: Strong... He is stronger than me by far.
And how did you figure he could probably beat two of the sound four at the same time?
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