A Way to save the Generic Pilots

[Depresionist]

For weaker Models (Zakus, other Cannon Fodder) that always die (I know they're stock characters, but they have lives!), shouldn't they just use a Remote Control to pilot them? I can see why they wouldn't do it for an expensive Gundam with a decent pilot, since they live most of the time =/ and if they hack the communication line, they could control it as well >_< But those poor generic pilots always die (quite easily too) it feels like they're just throwing their lives away =.= You'd think the teams would know by now, a Zaku with an average pilot = Certain Death vs. a decent Gundam with a better pilot. Robots are replacable, Humans aren't! Especially if they're waging war in space, they shouldn't be wasting their Crew's lives like this >_>

And the generic engineers deserve to die because they're failed clones :heh:

[Komataguri]

I don't know what you've been smoking, but god damn I need some

[Cerberus911]

Thing is, no one cares about them so they might as well die to reduce the world population :D

[sarcasteak]

Minovsky particles on the battlefield jam your standard remote controls; the most efficient way is to use psycho-commu system to control remote weaponry, and only Newtypes (who are usually already deadly pilots to begin with) can use them, and why bother having a whole Mobile Suit squadron that are just HUGE targets for the enemies when you can just have a dozen or so quick and agile funnels for all-range attack? :D

The whole concept of puppet MS is not a bad one, but watch Gundam X and Gundam W, and you'll see that it lends itself to a certain degree of abuse... :o

[Depresionist]

But if you're putting out Cannon fodder, you might as well just sacrifice a hunk of metal rather than a Human Being within it >_> This isn't about piloting Gundams in general. Maybe program it to run a course around the enemy, distracting it. Those generic guys were pretty cool, they had names XD

[Riyan]

To quote past a gundam character...

'Mobile Doll DANA!'

Its been done. I call a maximum of 6 cliches per gundam series. We have the perpetual red gundam, the accompanying Char-alike, the masked menace, the Voltron gundam, the big earth-destroying gun, and the two characters connected by destiny. Sorry. no room for remote-controlled mobile suits.

[K'9999]

For weaker Models (Zakus, other Cannon Fodder) that always die (I know they're stock characters, but they have lives!), shouldn't they just use a Remote Control to pilot them? I can see why they wouldn't do it for an expensive Gundam with a decent pilot, since they live most of the time =/ and if they hack the communication line, they could control it as well >_< But those poor generic pilots always die (quite easily too) it feels like they're just throwing their lives away =.= You'd think the teams would know by now, a Zaku with an average pilot = Certain Death vs. a decent Gundam with a better pilot. Robots are replacable, Humans aren't! Especially if they're waging war in space, they shouldn't be wasting their Crew's lives like this >_>

And the generic engineers deserve to die because they're failed clones :heh:

Actually Gundams are stronger normal Moblie suits. Obviously the Gundam pilots also are stronger generic pilots. However, some "generic" pilots are good such as........
If remote control was used (we can't see the great battles.), then what about in Formula One?

[Depresionist]

Guess we'll have to watch more Generic People/Clones die =/ Not enough Generic-Pilot fans out there I see.

[Talesweaving]

To quote past a gundam character...

'Mobile Doll DANA!'

Its been done. I call a maximum of 6 cliches per gundam series. We have the perpetual red gundam, the accompanying Char-alike, the masked menace, the Voltron gundam, the big earth-destroying gun, and the two characters connected by destiny. Sorry. no room for remote-controlled mobile suits.

Well in Gundam Wing they had those mobile dolls.
and another cliches i noticed is Start in space then down on earth then back up in space.

[blueskies]

Anything could happen in space , if the enemies knows about "Remote Control"
they could easily disable the robot , and in the end "keeping them" so , adding to their strength , and robot are created by humans for a reason ;)

in truth , humans are stronger than robot. it's just that we are darn lazy to maximise our full potential

Humans could do stuff that robots cant :D


by the way if you say generic it could lead to clone , so by right . they aint really humans , just some toy people create to fight/play

[bohemian]

Well in Gundam Wing they had those mobile dolls.
and another cliches i noticed is Start in space then down on earth then back up in space.

Well, we have

W = Start on earth -> go to space -> back on earth -> back to space
X = Start on earth -> go to space (apparently not enough time for an extra trip)
V = Start on earth -> go to space -> back on earth -> back to space -> last battle on Earth (Angel Halo)
Turn A = Start on earth -> go to space(moon) -> back on earth

These series do not start in space, unless you count Heero's entry to earth should count as start in space. And I think Turn A and V the only Gundam TV series that ends on Earth.

[Blaat]

Technically speaking both X and V ends on Earth as the final shot took place on the planet :)

[Sanjuronord]

But if you're putting out Cannon fodder, you might as well just sacrifice a hunk of metal rather than a Human Being within it >_> This isn't about piloting Gundams in general. Maybe program it to run a course around the enemy, distracting it. Those generic guys were pretty cool, they had names XD
To put it simply, the pilot is probably cheaper than the remote control system. Not to mention the piloting ability would go down if they used remote controls since the pilots wouldn't be as engaged in what was going on around them. Adrenaline and all that stuff.

As somebody else already mentioned: Gundam Wing. War just isn't all that interesting when you're watching lifeless machines get blown up.

[Komataguri]

The mindless drones die for one reason


THE BLOOD GODS REQUIRE THEIR LIFE, IF THEY DO NOT GET THEIR BLOODY SACRIFICES THEN THEY SHALL RISE UP FROM THE NETHER WORLD AND WROUGHT UNHOLY VENGANCE UPON THINE PATHETIC MORTAL LIVES.


BWAYAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[sarcasteak]

Also, you must satisfy the need of soldiers...some WANT to rush to the front lines and fight for their cause, ya know? :)

[srb]

Actually Gundams are stronger normal Moblie suits. Obviously the Gundam pilots also are stronger generic pilots. However, some "generic" pilots are good such as........


That a "Gundam" must be stronger isn't true, at all. During the OYW Zeon fielded prototypes that were beyond the RX-78-2, the Gelgoog even matched it in all areas except armor and was probably a lot more agile. In Chars Counterattack, the Sazabi is a superior suit to the Nu Gundam.

[Komataguri]

Gel'Goog fucking pwns.

Its Beam Rifle is just as, if not stronger then most if not all Federation models, and its beam Halbard is just sweet.

[sarcasteak]

That a "Gundam" must be stronger isn't true, at all. During the OYW Zeon fielded prototypes that were beyond the RX-78-2, the Gelgoog even matched it in all areas except armor and was probably a lot more agile. In Chars Counterattack, the Sazabi is a superior suit to the Nu Gundam.
I still believe even to this day that if Kampfer didn't waste nearly all its ammunitions on those GMs and GunCannons, it could've wasted Alex (even without a beam rifle). But then again, Mikhail is a pretty darn good pilot while Chris is...umm...unproven?

[F!reStr!fe]

In Chars Counterattack, the Sazabi is a superior suit to the Nu Gundam.

Really? i though they were the same because Nu gundam had those kick ass Fin Funnels with their own reactor and it had a superior beam saber (as quoted by char). They were pretty equal.

[infested_ysy]

For weaker Models (Zakus, other Cannon Fodder) that always die (I know they're stock characters, but they have lives!), shouldn't they just use a Remote Control to pilot them? I can see why they wouldn't do it for an expensive Gundam with a decent pilot, since they live most of the time =/ and if they hack the communication line, they could control it as well >_< But those poor generic pilots always die (quite easily too) it feels like they're just throwing their lives away =.= You'd think the teams would know by now, a Zaku with an average pilot = Certain Death vs. a decent Gundam with a better pilot. Robots are replacable, Humans aren't! Especially if they're waging war in space, they shouldn't be wasting their Crew's lives like this >_>

And the generic engineers deserve to die because they're failed clones :heh:
Now now, tell me when was the last time you see gun wielding robots the size of a man that's being remote controlled being deployed in the real life battlefield? :p

[Riyan]

Now now, tell me when was the last time you see gun wielding robots the size of a man that's being remote controlled being deployed in the real life battlefield? :p

Fallujah. As of a week ago. Or Afghanistan. http://www.defense-update.com/products/p/pacbot.htm

EDIT: see also http://breakingnewsblog.com/robotics/archives/us_army_tests_battlefield_robot_armed_with_pump_ac tion_shotgun/

:hmm:

[aeolian]

Thats crazy.....Robots with shotguns.....

Why don't they just put Arnold on the battlefield.

[srb]

Really? i though they were the same because Nu gundam had those kick ass Fin Funnels with their own reactor and it had a superior beam saber (as quoted by char). They were pretty equal.

The more powerful beam saber strapped to the arm of the Nu Gundam was indeed stronger than the standard ones the Sazabi had.

I'll just copy some stats for Sazabi and Nu:

Sazabi

Powerplant: Minovsky type ultracompact fusion reactor, output rated at 3960 kW
Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 2 x 14000 kg, 2 x 13300 kg, 8 x 9800 kg; vernier thrusters/apogee motors: 28
Performance: maximum thruster acceleration 1.87 G
Equipment and design features: sensors, range 22600 meters; psycommu system; psycoframe cockpit frame; 2 x external propellant tank, ejectable, mounted on backpack
Fixed armaments: mega particle gun, power rated at 8.8 MW, mounted in torso; 2 x beam saber, stored in recharge racks in forearms, hand-carried in use
Optional fixed armaments: shield, mounted on either forearm, mounts 3 x small missile
Optional hand armaments: beam shotrifle, power rated at 10.2 MW, powered by rechargeable energy cap; beam tomahawk, stored in recharge rack in shield, hand-carried in use
Remote weapons: 6 x funnel (mounts beam gun, power rated at 10.6 MW), stored in backpack storage pods

Nu

Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 4 x 18300 kg, 2 x 12300 kg; vernier thrusters/apogee motors: 26
Performance: maximum thruster acceleration 1.55 G
Equipment and design features: sensors, range 21300 meters; dummy launchers in hands; birdlime launchers in hands; psycoframe cockpit frame
Fixed armaments: 2 x vulcan gun, fire-linked, mounted in head; large beam saber, power rated at 0.85 MW, stored in recharge rack on backpack, hand-carried in use; beam saber, stored in recharge rack in left forearm, hand-carried in use
Optional fixed armaments: shield, mounted on left forearm, mounts beam cannon (power rated at 7.8 MW) and 4 x small missile
Optional hand armaments: beam rifle, power rated at 3.8 MW, powered by rechargeable energy cap, with attached grenade launcher, 1 round; hyper bazooka, clip-fed, 4 rounds per clip plus 1 round in chamber, can be stored on backpack storage rack
Remote weapons: 6 x fin funnel, stored on backpack storage rack

[sarcasteak]

Also, did it NOT occur to anyone that Nu's funnel can both attack AND defend? Am I the only one who thinks just for that alone Nu blows Sazabi out of the water? :(

[srb]

Also, did it NOT occur to anyone that Nu's funnel can both attack AND defend? Am I the only one who thinks just for that alone Nu blows Sazabi out of the water? :(


Well, any funnel can "defend" if the pilot is sensitive enough so that he can direct it to fire its own beam directly in the path of the incoming beam, but Nu's can create that nifty beam shield.

However, Nu's funnels are mucb bigger targets when compared to those of the Sazabi so it could also work against it since they would be easier for the opposing pilot to destroy than Sazabi's would, and with that giant funnel beam shield up you can't attack either - it's just a gamebreaker, not a gamewinner.

But they do look mighty cool :D

[F!reStr!fe]

U made an error Nu gundam never used the one on its arm ^^
He used the more powerful one on his back with the Skull Basher feature.
Nu Gundam fin funnels did also fool many many people to thinking it was a radiator fin.
IMO i think Sazabi was pure power while Nu Gundam was made with more finesse and mobility. :hmm:

[srb]

Sazabi is more mobile than Nu Gundam is due to more thrusters.

Neither are built very much for finesse, they're both pretty standard MS design-wise, just built with ridiculous cost and care.

[F!reStr!fe]

Sazabi is more mobile than Nu Gundam is due to more thrusters.

Neither are built very much for finesse, they're both pretty standard MS design-wise, just built with ridiculous cost and care.

Thats true but possibly pends of weight and size of the mobile suit and yes they did cost rediculously high and cared for.

[EpyonEmerald]

They made half of gundam wing about this,

Why not have moble dolls fight on the battlefield so no one dies? I think lady un puts it best when she says that it's not that MB's cause immotaility but they give you false illusions of it, So say you have a fleet of Moble Dolls and they get blown up, Your not going to surrender sooner or later you will die, Its just a matter of how. Unless you become a panzy and give up!

[srb]

Thats true but possibly pends of weight and size of the mobile suit and yes they did cost rediculously high and cared for.

Nu

Dimensions: overall height 23.0 meters; head height 22.0 meters
Weight: empty 27.9 metric tons; max gross 63.0 metric tons

Sazabi

Dimensions: overall height 25.6 meters; head height 23.0 meters
Weight: empty 30.5 metric tons; max gross 71.2 metric tons

They weight and size aren't that different, especially when the Sazabi has become lighter after having used up some of its fuel.

But these stats clearly show that the Sazabi is a superior mobile suit to the Nu Gundam, but they're both very good MS and both have extremely good pilots.

[Mr_Paper]

They made half of gundam wing about this,

Why not have moble dolls fight on the battlefield so no one dies? I think lady un puts it best when she says that it's not that MB's cause immotaility but they give you false illusions of it, So say you have a fleet of Moble Dolls and they get blown up, Your not going to surrender sooner or later you will die, Its just a matter of how. Unless you become a panzy and give up!Gundam Wing also showed the glaring flaw in that type of system.

The mobile dolls simply carried out their orders no matter how absurd or incorrect they were. The clear advantage of a human pilot is it's ability to question and debate it's orders then not follow those that are clearly wrong. Yes, many lives will end up being lost, however there is a greater chance that the orders followed wont be the insane quibs of a madman.

[Depresionist]

I didn't say to use "Gundam Dolls" to do all of the fighting, only for suicide missions (Like in Alaska) or accompanied by Gundams with good pilots. Most (As in 1:100) of the MSes that die out there are non-Gundams (Mostly because the Pilots are not as good or the MS itself is suckage). Kira can wipe out like... 80 with his Multi-Target system. Casualty rates skyrockets.

Sad to say, even 100 Mobile Suits (Non-Gundams) even with good pilots, will be wiped out by a Gundam with a good pilot. Look at Episode 1 of Destiny: Big army of DINNs, GINNs, and Zakus nearly all killed, if it weren't for Impulse. Why must they continue to send thousands of soldiers, young or old, to sacrifice themselves for something meaningless?

Why do you think GENESIS and Nukes had to be stopped? To stop casualty rates from rising too quickly. Why not take it a step further? Then pilots like Kira wouldn't have to cry each time he kills someone.

[srb]

Sad to say, even 100 Mobile Suits (Non-Gundams) even with good pilots, will be wiped out by a Gundam with a good pilot.

It has nothing to do with it being a "Gundam" or not (except in AU), it has something to do with how good the MS itself is. The RX-178 Gundam Mk II is outmatched by most mobile suits in Z Gundam, for example.

[sarcasteak]

It has nothing to do with it being a "Gundam" or not (except in AU), it has to do with whether the pilot is meant to kick-ass or not.
I fixed it for ya. ^^

[Depresionist]

The GUNDAMs in Seed certainly outmatch normal MSes, especially if they follow the other acronym.

[srb]

I fixed it for ya. ^^

True, that's the real reason... I blame showbiz! :(

And if we really want to get technical, all Earth Alliance mobile suits are Gundams, since they use the G.U.N.D.A.M MOS as well :heh:

[Zero Murasame]

The Unfair advantage Gundam SEED MS have over other gundams piss me off. SOmetimes I wish there was a gundam that could smite them all with a single blow. But ironicaly the pilot would be a retard.

[srb]

What advantage? Phase-Shift?

That's only effective against ballistic weaponry and all mobile suit main weaponry post-0079 are Minovsky-based particle beam rifles. Grenades and missiles are still used as support weapons but generally not as the main weapons.

[aeolian]

Really? i though they were the same because Nu gundam had those kick ass Fin Funnels with their own reactor and it had a superior beam saber (as quoted by char). They were pretty equal.

IMO, the Sazabi is more heavy on armor, but the number of boosters made up for it.
Weapon wise, sazabi sure has a lot of beam weapons and of course its funnels, but Nu has pretty good armnaments as well.
So the two are pretty close.

[kaaaboom]

The Unfair advantage Gundam SEED MS have over other gundams piss me off. SOmetimes I wish there was a gundam that could smite them all with a single blow. But ironicaly the pilot would be a retard.

Ask Double X and his Twin Satellite Cannon ;)

[sarcasteak]

Ask Double X and his Twin Satellite Cannon ;)
Or Turn A/X and their Moonlight Butterfly. :D

[Zero Murasame]

Ask Double X and his Twin Satellite Cannon ;)
Or a Ball with a buster Rifle mounted on top of it. From now on, that's my trademark MS!

[srb]

IMO, the Sazabi is more heavy on armor, but the number of boosters made up for it.
Weapon wise, sazabi sure has a lot of beam weapons and of course its funnels, but Nu has pretty good armnaments as well.
So the two are pretty close.

There's a thruster acceleration difference of ~ 0.3 G's in the Sazabi's favour.

A ball with Minovsky-drive thrusters with wings of light, The O-type arms with four large beam sabers, twin buster rifles mounted on the sides and four scattering mega-particle cannons to keep enemies away - now that's overkill :D

[Mr_Paper]

Or a Ball with a buster Rifle mounted on top of it. From now on, that's my trademark MS!But where is this ball going to get the energy needed to fire the rifle? ;)

[sarcasteak]

But where is this ball going to get the energy needed to fire the rifle? ;)
The same magical place where Calamity and Abyss got their energy from... >_>;;

[srb]

The same magical place where Calamity and Abyss got their energy from... >_>;;

There's a magic portal inside of them that draws it from the Aether, of course.

[Zero Murasame]

There's a magic portal inside of them that draws it from the Aether, of course.
what, is that like the ass?

[Zero Murasame]

There's a thruster acceleration difference of ~ 0.3 G's in the Sazabi's favour.

A ball with Minovsky-drive thrusters with wings of light, The O-type arms with four large beam sabers, twin buster rifles mounted on the sides and four scattering mega-particle cannons to keep enemies away - now that's overkill :D
MEH.
Zero Murasame's Ball :naughty:
Armaments- Beam Chainsaw
Hyper Screwdriver
Zero Shift
QUAD BUSTER RIFLES
Phase shift (color- maroon)
Dual Missile Pack (fires 4 volleys of 10)
An Afro on it's top
Generator Output-
A LOT (for the rifles)
Radiators-
lets say it's not cheap
Skills Needed-
Just wing it, see what happens.
Embelm- Masta Killa

[Mr_Paper]

MEH.
Zero Murasame's Ball :naughty:
Armaments- Beam Chainsaw
Hyper Screwdriver
Zero Shift
QUAD BUSTER RIFLES
Phase shift (color- maroon)
Dual Missile Pack (fires 4 volleys of 10)
An Afro on it's top
Generator Output-
A LOT (for the rifles)
Radiators-
lets say it's not cheap
Skills Needed-
Just wing it, see what happens.
Embelm- Masta KillaSounds like a Nabishin clone...