View Full Version : Licensed Ending of Rahxephon *spoilers*
Can someone explain to me what the hell happened in the last 4 episodes and what was with the encounter with Mishima Haruka after the credits in episode 26?
GATX207_Blitz
2003-12-09, 05:12
What do you need explaining specifically about the last 4 episodes???
Well for the Mishima Haruka thing I believe that Mishima Haruka is Shitow Haruka when Ayato Kamina went to school with her. Remember that Shitow Haruka had her name changed later to Shitow from Mishima because her mother married another man. When Ayato Kamina beat Quon for the balance he retuned the world to the way he wanted it to be so Shitow Haruka married Ayato's brother and Ayato Kamina met Mishima Haruka...yes, the same person, sounds weird, but he probably divided them into two different people and so that everyone could be happy
its just what I got out of it so yea hope that clears up a few things if you disagree well whatevers I posted a thread about RahXephon.... to anyone who reads this plz take a look at that thread and tell me if anyone knows
EDIT: well apparently it was closed and I am unable to post on it so I guess that means I can't ask what I wanted to know oh well then I suppose then that I can ask this: If anyone thinks they can help me with something about RahXephon plz PM me and I will PM you the question...would that work mods???
What do you need explaining specifically about the last 4 episodes???
Well for the Mishima Haruka thing I believe that Mishima Haruka is Shitow Haruka when Ayato Kamina went to school with her. Remember that Shitow Haruka had her name changed later to Shitow from Mishima because her mother married another man. When Ayato Kamina beat Quon for the balance he retuned the world to the way he wanted it to be so Shitow Haruka married Ayato's brother and Ayato Kamina met Mishima Haruka...yes, the same person, sounds weird, but he probably divided them into two different people and so that everyone could be happy
arent kamina and his brother basicly clones of each other? i may be confused, wouldnt be the first time. if they are then it makes a good bit of sense in the spliting Haruka into two people, each from two different times/ages.
*sigh*
RahXephon was a tool created to re-make the world so-to-speak.
Remember after the big final battle the Egg that covered
the earth? That was the earth being remade.
Basically it was remade so the Mu never existed or showed up, basically they never made Tokyo Jupiter so Haruka and Ayoto never seprated from eachother like true lovers should be, and Quon became their child.
The scene after the credits is how they met eachother.
Hopefully that clears things up.
GATX207_Blitz
2003-12-10, 16:43
*sigh*
RahXephon was a tool created to re-make the world so-to-speak.
Remember after the big final battle the Egg that covered
the earth? That was the earth being remade.
Basically it was remade so the Mu never existed or showed up, basically they never made Tokyo Jupiter so Haruka and Ayoto never seprated from eachother like true lovers should be, and Quon became their child.
The scene after the credits is how they met eachother.
Hopefully that clears things up.
Yes I already said that about the world being remade, retuned same difference.
Oh and Ayato and the Dr. are two different people. Whether clone or not they are two different people Ayato is not his brother don't you remember that whole episode with the white snake as a child? you get to see some of the doctors past with him. You know the little kid with glasses?? thats the doctor.
OK so the world was remade, but this happened before MU, which would mean that his past wouldn't have been changed. therefore I stand by my theory of having split the harukas into two completely different people.
Also Quon is the dr. and Shitow Haruka's child not Ayato and Mishima Haruka's.
The dr. and Ayato live in the same time period.
well if you have something else I would like to hear it seeing how I learn through other people's opinions and ideas. Oh and I hope the movie clears more things up about this....
*cough*
Alright I got most of my info off the "RahXephon bible" (I can't remember the exact name now) It was published in japan, and was co-produced with the people who made RahXephon. It was a pretty good read (I had someone translate the book for me ^.^;), contained ALOT of info and explainations.
I can't fully explain what happened when the world was split up, BUT he re-wrote history it self.
In the end there is ONLY One Ayato only ONE Haruka. the other one was RahXephon's "soul" if you could call it that.
Quon IS in the remade world the child of Ayato and Haruka.
Basically to sum it all up, Ayato when he retuned the world destroyed it and remade it from scratch.
So Haruka is Haruka, there are no if ands or buts around it. If you look at the end, who's drawing the picture? That's Ayato, he finally finished his drawing, who's in the crib? Quon, who's he married to? Haruka...
He REWROTE the world, he made everything new, he took out the parts that he didn't like, and tried to make everything normal, however NO ONE remembers anything from before the world was retuned.
The movie won't explain anything more, from what I've been told, it's IDENTICAL to the series except told from Haruka's Point of View, from their days in Jr. High to the days after mu invaded til the end of the series basically.
It's quite a thinking anime, much more enjoyable than NGE (which I DIDN'T like at all)
Okay, and according to the Rahxephon bible, how did Ayato's brother, the doctor, end up?
Okay, and according to the Rahxephon bible, how did Ayato's brother, the doctor, end up?
If they told me I would of told you :)
The book was translated by a friend of mine, it explained things, didn't explain others. It's like you gotta interpert the book as well.
From my assumptions
The doctor no longer exists as he and Ayato are now one and the same *shrugs*
Because it seems Ayato reworte history so the Foundation and Mu never existed, radically changing some events.
Due to these things, Ayato and The doctor are still one in the same and not clones...although the ending is VERY VERY vague, it's quite obvious the man painting is Ayato, and the flash back is Ayato as well, with Haruka.
there was also a website I found a while ago that had things from other various sources, let me see if I can track that websiite down.
http://www.animecastle.com/ACISBN-MRXFB1.html
Apparently there IS a RahXephon Bible, but that's not the same book I was talking about...atleast I don't think it is...*shrugs*
I haven't even throught about this since it was released on fansubs hmmm...
Fine no more spoiler tags.
THE WORLD WAS REMADE. RahXephon is the tool to retune (aka destroy and rebuild) the world.
Basically Ayato destroyed the world, rebuilt it with elements he wanted, and that's how it happened.
So the happy happy at the end of ep 26 is now the new world where no one remembers what has happened before the world was retuned.
Basically Ayato didn't want Mu or the Foundation to exist (or something to that extent) and yada yada, changed history, Haruka and Ayato never became seperated, etc etc, they grow up have a kid, Kid turns out to be Quon.
end of story...damnit, it was a pretty shitty ending now that I think about if :p
tsurumaru
2003-12-10, 18:51
The movie won't explain anything more, from what I've been told, it's IDENTICAL to the series except told from Haruka's Point of View, from their days in Jr. High to the days after mu invaded til the end of the series basically.
It's quite a thinking anime, much more enjoyable than NGE (which I DIDN'T like at all)
Not quite Identical, here's the main differences that I spotted from the Raw version of the movie:
You get to see Haruka and Ayato get it on in a non Hentai kind of way.
There is a bit more conclusion about the Doctor and the Barbem foundation.
The scene where Haruka "gets herself killed" by the Godlike Ayato in order to meet his spirit at the end of the series is different, as is his explanation and acceptance of his destiny to retune the world.
The ending is completely different, it shows an old Haruka living an normal life with her granddaughter (who looks exactly like Mishima Reika, even down to the yellow dress) She is reading her favourite book and when asked about Ayato, remarks how he told her he would be back for her and she should wait. When the grandaughter goes to fetch something, Haruka spots someone and it is the etherial Ayato returned for her we see her as young again and her grandaughter returns to find she has completely vanished from this world......
I'm not sure if this is a completely alternative (universe) ending (like the End of Evangelion) but I don't think I'll be able to get my head round it untill I've seen a translated version! :)
And no one knows what happened to his brother? I want to know whether the brother is actually a brother, or is a clone of Ayato living in a separate world or a completely different person altogether. And what happens to him in the end? And what happens to everyone else? The pregnant chick and her pretty-boy (was it Soujiro?), the Helena girl, the white-haired dude, the captain, etc etc.
The Doctor is Ayato's clone, made by the foundation I believe.
At the end like I said EVERYTHING is diffrent, what you see is what you get, you don't know anything else.
You are NO LONGER in the same world as it was before it was retuned. This is a new world with a completely diffrent history behind it, that Ayato made for Haruka and himself.
Therefore there is ONLY one Haruka and ONE Ayato no clones or anything. I'm sure the pretty boy and that girl are all fine too...but who knows they don't tell us.
One more thing, does Ayato actually remember doing all that retuning and Rahxephon and stuff? And did Barbem go through all the trouble of creating Rahxephon just so Ayato could use it to get his own jollies? I don't get it.
Ayato doesn't remember, He rewrote history, Barbem was an alien (right) he saw the earth was in trouble, created RahXephon and waited for his "appointed chosen one" to use it and fix it. So yea.
The earth was in trouble and it's fixed just by having one young boy hook up with the chick he likes? He just hooks up with her and everything's okay? I don't buy that. Also, what about his mom with the blue blood? And why didn't Ayato have blue blood like her? In fact, what about everyone with the blue blood, who were those MUs? Yes, I know you said they didn't exist after Ayato rewrote the story, but who were they in the first place, where did they come from, what were they trying to do, why? :eyespin:
The earth was in trouble and it's fixed just by having one young boy hook up with the chick he likes? He just hooks up with her and everything's okay? I don't buy that. Also, what about his mom with the blue blood? And why didn't Ayato have blue blood like her? In fact, what about everyone with the blue blood, who were those MUs? Yes, I know you said they didn't exist after Ayato rewrote the story, but who were they in the first place, where did they come from, what were they trying to do, why? :eyespin:
Ayato is the Chosen one. He was chosen to "save" the world. I look at it this way, the MU are like genetically altered people. They were once human, but they were changed and given new blood.
But in reality we're never told anything about them. I for one don't care :) The main central theme around the story was Ayato and Haruka getting together.
juri_miki
2003-12-11, 13:25
Actually, it's times like this I really recommend checking out the Rahxephon movie. Even though it's a retelling, some things have changed very much and everything is spelled out in black and white for easier understanding. Not too much change, but there were some necessary revisions made for the better.
GATX207_Blitz
2003-12-11, 15:10
argh everyone keeps talking about the movie I made a thread asking about it, but it got like closed and deleted, guess it wasn't acceptible, so lets hope that someone can help me out....when did the movie come out? Is it licensed? Is it fansubbed? (I'm not asking where I can get it just asking about the status, so I believe that its legal to ask what I am asking)
tsurumaru
2003-12-11, 15:24
Arragh! I can't believe how many times I've heard this discussion (Don't take any offence its just cause its a series you have to really think about).
Here's what I understand from the Series....
The Mu are occupants of a parallel dimension's Earth. They can only exist in our universe by residing in a normal humans body, in which case this human has Blue blood and is known as a Mulian (their true form is the ghost like forms you can see operating the Dolems) People who have Mulians inside them are often (but not always) completely unaware this is the case.
A corridor between the two realities is discovered which allows Barbem to travel to the MU Earth/reality. Barbem foresee's the fact that the parallel realities will ultimately converge into one place/ or perhaps he designs this, and therefore creates the RahXephon series capable of "retuning" the world to ultimately his design (as he plans on selecting the pilot and therefore influencing the process).
Quon and her sister (Ayato's "mother") travel through the corridor from the Mulian Earth to the Human Earth.
The Barbem foundation create new beings from Quons gene's creating both Ayato and the Doctor who are clones of each other (but also identical twins as naturally conceived genetically identical people tend to be called twins and artificially genetically identical people tend to be referred to as clones (not that there are any yet)) and yes they are brothers too, because if you were male and had a male twin he would be your brother. The only additionally confusing aspect is that when the doctor was created he was allowed to develop straight away whereas Ayato was frozen and only later allowed to mature.
Ayato HAS blue blood, like most Humans who are really Mulians he is not aware of his own difference until someone else shows him (in his case his "mother").
However Ayato is special as he has a human "heart", he is an Olin/Orin (he is a blend of Human/Mulian unlike the others (except the doctor (his clone), and Quon, whom they were both created from) he is capable of discarding his human form and merging with the Xephon series thus becoming a "God". However he can only do this as long as he meets its "Muse" <ie to him, Mishima Reika's form> before he is 17 years old.)
Anyhow when the Mu found out about our Earth and possibly manipulated by Barbem's knowledge (and the fact he took Quon etc) they decided to invade our Earth.
After the resulting war the Mulians decided to reside in Tokyo (until they were ready) then the Jupiter phenenom took place, sealing each side away from each other (and taking the poor Tokyo residents with the Mu.) However time unfortunately travelled at different rates relative to whether you were inside or outside "Tokyo Jupiter" and this is what caused most of Haruka and Ayato's woes as time passed at different rates for each of them.
In the final battle (after destroying the Tokyo Jupiter sphere) both realities started to merge together (as Barbem had forseen, perhaps he even instigated this by his own design) With the two RahXephon systems created there were two possible outcomes.
Quon retunes the world to her own design (ultimately Barbem thought he could influence her enough so that this retuned world would be what he wished for) This existence would probably be mostly Mulian.
Ayato retunes the world to his design (mostly human). This is what ultimately happened. Ayato though chose to correct the time difference that the Jupiter effect had caused and thus reallign everyone's relative age (especially his and Haruka's).
Mishima Reika is the RahXephon part of Ayato (who is ultimately not Human nor Mulian but a "God", as long as he discards his human form and merges with the RahXephon/Mishima Reika)
Mishima Reika appears in the image of Haruka Shitow when she was younger (ie long hair, yellow dress). Ayato has had his memory wiped of this time he spent with her and only small portions come back, such as the first time he met Haruka Shitou (in her younger form and therefore looking like Mishima Reika) in her yellow dress while at the beach on Nirai Kanai, this image is the picture he paints (and the one Mishima Reika/RahXephon appears to him as). This first meeting of the Ayato and Haruka is shown after the end credits of the series thus bringing the whole thing full circle...
Phew... glad thats over........ ! ;)
PS the movie is licenced and should be out in 2004 by the same group that brought out the series :).
Ayato is the Chosen one. He was chosen to "save" the world. I look at it this way, the MU are like genetically altered people. They were once human, but they were changed and given new blood.
But in reality we're never told anything about them. I for one don't care :) The main central theme around the story was Ayato and Haruka getting together.
"Save the world?" But he didn't do anything except smash up a lot of stuff and then get together with his girlfriend. And the bit about the MU being altered is just speculation on your part, is it not? In other words the series goes "MU, MU, MU" for 22 episodes and then all of a sudden it doesn't matter because Ayato is in love? WTF? So what were those MU trying to do anyway? Were they good or bad? And what were those weird monsters that Rahxephon kept killing? Lots of things pissed me off about Rahxephon, but this "love conquers all" ending is the pits. :mad:
EDIT: Whoops, I posted this before I read tsurumaru's post. I still think Rahxephon wasted my time, though.
GATX207_Blitz
2003-12-11, 19:14
YES!!! thank you tsurumaru you have answered the one question that has been bugging the crap out of me and that is of course the movie question....I thought no one knew even though they say that they all saw it. Finally I can stop trying to find out about this.
Hmmm....are you SURE?
I'm pretty sure Ayato "Retuned" the world so that the war never happened...therefore Tokyo Jupiter never happening, and rewriting some history therefore Quon is born at the end as Ayato's and Haruka's child, since they all seem to have forgotten about the war.
So I don't know what "cycle" you're talking about...because there clearly isn't one, as Ayato and Haruka are married at the end, they talk about going to university and stuff, and Quon is now their child...
this is right after the egg cracks...I just finished watching the last ep again.
Oh yea, Megu calls Ayato "Onii-San" when she's on the phone with Haruka...stating that the world has changed, and they don't remember anything...because if they did remember it would be Ayato-Kun and not "onii-san"
IN the end with the picture, he's just retelling the story of how they met...that's all.
tsurumaru
2003-12-11, 20:53
Hmmm....are you SURE?
I'm pretty sure Ayato "Retuned" the world so that the war never happened...therefore Tokyo Jupiter never happening, and rewriting some history therefore Quon is born at the end as Ayato's and Haruka's child, since they all seem to have forgotten about the war.
So I don't know what "cycle" you're talking about...because there clearly isn't one, as Ayato and Haruka are married at the end, they talk about going to university and stuff, and Quon is now their child...
this is right after the egg cracks...I just finished watching the last ep again.
Oh yea, Megu calls Ayato "Onii-San" when she's on the phone with Haruka...stating that the world has changed, and they don't remember anything...because if they did remember it would be Ayato-Kun and not "onii-san"
IN the end with the picture, he's just retelling the story of how they met...that's all.
Yes sorry, to make my self clearer after the end credits of the final episode there is a scene that shows Ayato painting the original picture of Haruka (that he keeps repainting during the series). This event was the first time that they both met and happened before the Mu and Tokyo Jupiter phenomenon all I was saying was that by showing this last they had brought the series round full circle (by showing the very first meeting of the main characters) not that this was the "retuned" world that Ayato had made.
By the way the Monsters (Dolems as they are known) are another physical manifestation of the Ghostly Mulians in our world.
But remember the "re-tuned" world doesn't have the war existing, so there IS no cycle...I'm thinking cycle like 12 Monkey's cycle, where the start of the series is the ending of the series sort of thing.
But I think the meeting of the main characters WAS of the retuned world, since Ayato is now retelling their meeting, and he's now in the retuned world.
By the way the Monsters (Dolems as they are known) are another physical manifestation of the Ghostly Mulians in our world.
You may have answered this already, but why exactly are they manifesting? It seems like all they did was show up, sing and get destroyed by Ayato. And I'm still wondering whether they were good or bad.
tsurumaru
2003-12-12, 12:57
But remember the "re-tuned" world doesn't have the war existing, so there IS no cycle...I'm thinking cycle like 12 Monkey's cycle, where the start of the series is the ending of the series sort of thing.
But I think the meeting of the main characters WAS of the retuned world, since Ayato is now retelling their meeting, and he's now in the retuned world.
Im actually saying "circle" not cycle ie the story has come full circle, they end up together (in the retuned world) as they started out together (back in Nirai Kanai before Ayato's memory was wiped). but I understand what you're saying and I agree that it isn't the same 12 Monkeys mindjob (which is an inverse paradox) , its still a mindjob though! :p
guynextdoor
2003-12-15, 20:51
You may have answered this already, but why exactly are they manifesting? It seems like all they did was show up, sing and get destroyed by Ayato. And I'm still wondering whether they were good or bad.
"The Mu are occupants of a parallel dimension's Earth. They can only exist in our universe by residing in a normal humans body, in which case this human has Blue blood and is known as a Mulian (their true form is the ghost like forms you can see operating the Dolems) People who have Mulians inside them are often (but not always) completely unaware this is the case"
taken from tsurumaru's explaination 1st paragraph. and dont bother putting them in the good or bad side, u will just get a big headache thats all :)
Kelldoria
2003-12-19, 00:27
Just a quick question about the movie, i heard from the fan subs that it is coming out spring 2004? But isnt there already a RahXephon movie out that is mentioned in the replies above? Btw has anyone bought the O.S.T. for RahXephon, i really enjoyed the music from it and im wondering if i should buy the O.S.T. 1-3. Thanx!
NaLzyMan
2003-12-30, 06:00
The way I see it based on the last episode, is that quon and ayato had been somewhat of an item when he was very young (before he ever met haruka), it shows her playing the piano at a young age, and him walking up and kissing her. To me this is a memory that quon had kept, and ayato had somehow forgotten, quon makes a comment to Dr. Itsuki, and it is roughly translated as "I guess I should have accepted things too", this paired with the scene they are witnessing, leads me to believe it was said in the context of her being a past female friend of ayato that had some deep feelings for him, which he did not have for her. Eventually he meets haruka and that's where his heart ends up truly lying. So I guess Quon had a hard time accepting that Ayato would never return the feelings she had for him. Ayato remembers this childhood relationship with Quon and now fully grasps the situation, and where she has been coming from the whole time. When he rewrites the world he of course ends up with his true love haruka. Quon is recreated as his child, this way he can love her unconditionally and she can love him, yet she will never remember that she had loved him romantically, but hey no harm done they will be happy. It seemed to me that Dr. Itsuki loved Quon primarily, and he makes a comment when they are watching young ayato and quon kiss, about how she always picks his older brother over him. I think that in the recreated world the Dr. Itsuki clone simply does not exist, either that or Ayato has given him some life elsewhere, most likely paired up with that assistant that loved him. Then there is the Class Reunion sheet in the scene at Ayato/Haruka's house, and on it it says Mamoru and Hiroko Torigai, which were Ayato's school chums that seemed to be a couple from early eps. I guess they have gotten married in this new world. I don't think anyone questions whether that is Ayato or not that is hitched to haruka in this recreated world, however, some try to argue that Dr. Itsuki has merged with Ayato. I don't think this is the case, because the Dr. was never part of Ayato so to speak, but merely a clone.
So bottom line, the end as I see it = Ayato and Haruka together, quon as their child, his highschool buddies have married, haruka's sister seems to be doing well, and the rest of the characters are up to your imagination. Hell, as messed up as it sounds, he could have created Dr. Itsuki as his father in the new world. (In the end scene when it shows him and haruka meeting for the first time in their youth, he says, "My father is here investigating ruins", seems like something Dr. Itsuki would do, and since it's not his mother he says is investigating the ruins, we wonder who he has designated as his father.
So I leave you with this question: Ayato, Who is your daddy?
tsurumaru
2004-01-02, 09:25
The way I see it based on the last episode, is that quon and ayato had been somewhat of an item when he was very young (before he ever met haruka), it shows her playing the piano at a young age, and him walking up and kissing her. To me this is a memory that quon had kept, and ayato had somehow forgotten, quon makes a comment to Dr. Itsuki, and it is roughly translated as "I guess I should have accepted things too
I thought that this was actually Dr Itsuki when he was young (him being a clone of Ayato and therefore looking the same when younger). I thought that this scene was Quon's realisation of Dr Itsuki's love for her (even though she is his mother/sister) (Man I just have to say this is screwed up) and her realisation that she does not have any romantic love returned from her other "son" Ayato......
(In the end scene when it shows him and haruka meeting for the first time in their youth, he says, "My father is here investigating ruins", seems like something Dr. Itsuki would do, and since it's not his mother he says is investigating the ruins, we wonder who he has designated as his father.
So I leave you with this question: Ayato, Who is your daddy?
I thought that the Base commander was Ayato's "dad" (or at least his legal guardian in the same sense that his Mulian mother wasn't his real mother but his aunt) although I never looked into this much.......hmm perhaps it was the priest guy...?? Ignore me on this one I'll have to go watch the series AGAIN ! ;)
Ayato and Itsuki don't have real fathers as they are cloned beings created from Quon who is not technically their "mother" but actually their sister......
Man this is all one incestuous mess.....! :heh: :twitch:
Legend Ver 2
2004-01-08, 06:11
Actually, if watching the series with careful attention, u can figure out the whole family tree. ayato and itsuki (the doctor) are actually brothers tat aged differently due to the different time zones. If you've seen the OVA, it tell u that quon is really the mother of ayato and itsuki. there was never a thing between quon and ayato, even wen they kissed (i still dont recall tat scene). that scene was before the OVA, and the OVA took place when quon collapsed midway in the series. the OVA basically told of a dream quon had with her inner self and she regained her memory in that dream.
So yea, qoun is ayato and itsuki's biological mother while maya is just the aunt. the general with the eye patch (forgot his name) is probably the husband of maya but smehow they were separated.
At the end of ep 26, the young boy was actually the younger version of ayato, and tat lil grl is the younger version of haruka. This is all a live flashback inside the world of rahxephon. itsuki was never with haruka because he grew up in the outside world with helena and the isshiki (or wutever the wite hair dudes name was). during tat scene, quon and itsuki were also talking about quon accepting itsuki and loving him as equal to ayato. she was talking about the love a mother has a her sons (ayato and itsuki). itsuki probably felt rejected because even tho him and ayato were twins, he believed quon loved ayato more because ayato was the chosen one to attain yoteotl.
Well thats my interpretation to wut the ending is about. feel free to enlighten me with more interesting facts.
btw, RahXephon has become my fav series after i finished it. i think of it as more or a romantic love story with a twist more than a mecha anime. :)
Hi! This is my first post in the boards. I've been lurking from time to time but I guess a discussion on Rahxephon's ending finally prompted me to join in. Anyway, nice to meet you people. So, here are my two cents...
The reason why Itsuki is older than Ayato is because Ayato lived inside Tokyo Jupiter while Itsuki lived outside. That's why Itsuki referred to himself as a "replacement" in reference to his short-lived relationship with Haruka and as an Ollin replacement to some extent.
With regard to the ending of the series, I believe that Ayato was able to tune the world as others have already said. However, this is not just a simple love story where "love wins the day". Remember that the Ollin who will tune the world would've been either Quon or Ayato, but Quon, by first preparing him to find himself again, gives him the chance to gain that right--hence that entire surreal sequence in ep 26. The whole story of the series was to find himself again, so you have themes like lost memories, lost love, "who am I?", etc. In order to tune the world it's necessary that Ayato know who he is in relation to the people he cares about in the world that all of them share--that's the why the tuned world ended up the way it is seen in the end.
Others have said that the man who's with Haruka is Itsuki or a merged version of Ayato and Itsuki--but with the scene at the very end, it makes more sense that it's Ayato. And the reason I think Megumi calls Ayato as "onii-san" is due to a brotherly-sisterly relationship, considering they're in-laws. Also, it's quite normal in Japan for people to refer to others in such a way--like calling a female clerk as "onee-chan" as a sign of casual respect. I guess it's like "hey miss!" or something.
Regarding whether Ayato remembers everything or not prior to the tuning, remember that one of his paintings hanging on the wall is a bust of Rahxephon, so I guess it's up in the air. Coincidence? Maybe. Ambuiguous? Definitely.
And that piano scene is indeed Ayato and Haruka when they were 14. You can see more of their younger days in the movie and that's going to confirm it. Also Quon's loving Itsuki and Ayato equally is an admittance of motherly love, but in the movie Itsuki is actually romantically in love with Quon. The movie takes a lot of liberties and changes some facts, but I guess you can treat them as being two different and yet complementary tellings of the same story.
In the ending, you don't get to see what happens to the rest of the cast. That's all you're going to get. With Ayato tuning the world, I guess you can assume that everything became relatively fine in the end.
I love this series, and yes, even more than NGE. Anyway, what a long post! I hope I'm not being inconvinient here.
yes after reading tsurumarus post you can understand why most people don't get it. other than the obvious I didn't get it either. There are aliens with blue blood who have somehow put some sort of dimensional warp around tokyo. The people in tokyo don't really know but it seems they all have blue blood and have an alien host. somehow ayato escapes to the real world and the rest is not so clear anymore.
anyone would tell you episode 19 was their favorite episode because everyone was clueless like that chick. I found ayato just plain confusing
brightman
2004-01-08, 16:46
One thing about the movie (this is directed at the comment that the movie and the TV show are the same).
In the movie Itsuki is in NO WAY related to Ayato, he was Quon's former lover (Quon is asleep for most of the movie), and the grown up Ayato looks nothing like him... Also the character "Reika Mishima" doesn't exist except as Ayato's granddaughter, and Ayato was born like any regular human from his mother and never forgot about Haruka in the first place. The memory loss only occurs in the movie when Mulians "awaken".
Of course that basically simplifies everything... Which is why I prefer the movie's simplified story than the anime's confusing clone stuff.
A thread with tons of info:
http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Number=273037
roguenoir
2004-02-29, 15:10
Now I doubt the creators intended something like this but here's what I thought really happened in the ending.. Ayato has chosen to give up his human form and merge with the Rahxephon for eternity.. The ending scenes like the one with a grown-up Ayato and Haruka living as husband-wife is just a glance at what would have been the outcome if the Mu invasion and the creation of Tokyo-Jupiter never happened (kinda like the alternate universe they show at the end of NG Evangelion.) With the course of events at the end, a happy ending doesn't seem to fit in.
dreamless
2004-02-29, 16:28
both Ayato and Dr. are clones made from combining genes of Quon and Barbem (the leader of Barbem Foundation, that old man)
dreamless
2004-02-29, 16:38
well, this is what I wrote some time ago, about the TV, not the movie.
1. What's the relations between Quon, Maya, Ayato and Itsuki?
Quon and Maya was "invert-spirited-away" to appear at that stone gate years ago (I think it's 23 years or something, the exact year was given at that "spirit away" episode, but I can't remember clearly). Basically "spirit away" means someone disappear suddenly, and "invert-spirit-away" means someone appear out of nowhere suddenly. That stone gate is some Mulian trans-dimensional device, and the sisters Quon and Maya was sent to Earth dimension by Mulians via that gate. The older sister, Quon, entered hibernation shortly after her arrival, while Maya grows normally. They are promptly taken by Barbem (presumably this is all under Barbem's plan), and Barbem used his genes and Quon's genes to clone Ayato and Itsuki. So genetically speaking, Quon is Ayato and Itsuki's mother. Then Itsuki is raised by Barbem himself while Ayato is given to Maya to raise as her own child.
2. Who's Mishima Reika and Mishima Haruka and what's their relations to Shitow Haruka?
Mishima Haruka is Shitow Haruka, it's just her old name before her family broke up due to the Tokyo Jupiter incident where Tokyo is taken over by Mulians and separated from the rest of the world with a time-shift shield. There's no human named Mishma Reika. Ayato met Haruka when they were both 14 and they become close friends, but then the Tokyo Jupiter incident happened, and they were separated, Ayato remained inside Tokyo and got brainwashed by Maya, but since he liked Haruka really a lot, although he forgot most things about her, he still remembers her subconsciously and try to draw the "girl on beach" paint everyday. Ishitori, the soul of the RahXephon sensed this, and in order to synchronize with the pilot/olin perfectly, it took the form of the most loved person of the olin to meet him. But when Ayato met Ishitori in Haruka's form, he can't remember clearly the name of that girl, so it's "Mishima... *pause*... Reika". Basically he forgot about the "Ha" part of "Haruka", and made up the name of "Mishima Reika". Ishitori, as the soul of RahXephon, has the ability to manifest in any form and manipulate the minds and memories of humans easily. so you see at first Hiroko and Mamoru asked Ayato "who's Mishima Reika?" since they haven't met Ishitori yet, but then after they saw Ishitori coming, they acted as if they knew her all the time, because their memories at that time already manipulated by Ishitori.
3. What's the "tune the world" stuff and why Maya try to brainwash Ayato?
"Tune the world" is actually the Aztec version of creating a new world after the destruction of the old world. RahXephon is full of Aztec/Mayan religious symbolism, like Barbem's insignia has five circles representing the "five suns" in the Aztec religion. Ishitori, olin, katun, etc. are all Aztec/Mayan terms. Basically it's foretold that after a certain period of time, the world will go a death/rebirth process, and this has happened four times already (with our current world being the fifth one, rebuilt from ashes by Quetzalcoatl the fifth Sun). Barbem invented/discovered a method (which is RahXephon) to intervene with the process and control the outcome/the new world to his favor. So now Maya, as the leader of the Mulians, try to brainwash Ayato (the olin) to make the new world favor the Mulians.
4. What happened at the end after Earth was engulfed by a big egg?
So what's foretold in the Aztec prophecies come true. The fifth world, our current world, is destroy in big quakes, and a new world is born by using the remains of the old world. As Quetzalcoatl used the remains of the fourth world to create our world, Ayato used the remains of our world to create a new world, thus Ayato becomes the sixth Sun and the God to the new world. So for the last scenes before credits, all the characters and things are produced by Ayato, as all the people and things in our world are produced by Quetzalcoatl. That Ayato, Haruka and Quon are not the Ayato, Haruka and Quon of the old world, but made by the Ayato of the old world (the Sixth Sun of the new world) from what's left after the destruction.
And I have to say the "change the course of history, erase Mulians" theory obviously cannot be correct since when you consider the origin of Ayato, if there's no Mulian, there's no Ayato. Changing the flow of time cannot change the flow of cause and effect. Without Mulians, there's no Quon. Without Quon, there's no Ayato. Thus the Ayato and Quon at the end of the anime cannot be the old world's Ayato and Quon. And there's no "normal course of history without Mulians" to begin with, since practically the whole human history is manipulated by Barbem and intertwined with Mulians.
sorry to bump this thread but from this site - http://www.mediafactory.co.jp/anime/rahxephon/onair/index.html (offical site of Rahxephon) + base on my crappy Japanese Ayato and Dr itsuki is not CLONE whatsoever.
And any Japanese wizard please translate that page into English. After watching the series i'm still VERY CONFUSING --> so I googled and end up there and your discussion even make me more CONFUSED :confused:
/edit
some more question that I saw from anime-kraze forums
http://www.anime-kraze.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4321&highlight=rahxephon
So, what created the hatred between the Muians and the Earth Alliance (Humans) in the first place? did the Muians appear on Earth form another demesion and seal themselves off in Tokyo, or did they evole from Humans? They mentioned that someone in the Defense Force defected to MU (Kuki). In the end he dies, but he's Muian? If he defected, wasns't he human before? What exactly makes the Muians different form humans?
What was MU's overall goal? To take over earth?
So Quon was the "First Specimen." They mention she begin around in 1989 or something. Isnt that way before MU existed?
The two girls that MU sent to the outside world were Ishtari and Quon..Quon's DNA was used to create Helena, the Doctor (I forget his name), the "white snake guy" (again, I forget his name), and Ayato under the Barbem [sic] Foundation...Somehow Ayato was transfered to Tokyo-Jupiter and lived there...Is that all right?
Commander Watashi (eyepatch guy) is Ayato's father?
Why did Quon and Ayato fight eachother in the end?
In the end, Ayato uses the power of RahXephon to create the world according to what he wanted (again..sort of like Eva)? Or did he reverse time? At the end I noticed that the girl who was Ishtari was Haruku instead of Reika...Also Asahina (the Muian he liked from "Tokyo Jupiter") is alive and married to that other guy (I forget the name).
The Barbem Foundation was established to do....? The Barbem [sic] guy created the Xephon system in hopes of recreating the world (much like Eva). So he lived for hundreds of years by somehow transferring bodies? Did he plot the whole MU conflicts as well?
Regarding the clone thing--perhaps there's just some confusion with the terminology. I would describe Ayato and Itsuki as "genetic brothers" or "genetic twins" but what's more important is the fact that Quon is their genetic mother. At one point in the series, even Itsuki refers to Ayato as his "older brother." They really seem to be two different people since they possess individual traits that separate one from the other (the artist and the scientist..). But the point is, both of them are products of some genetic procedure. Maybe "clone" is the right term here, or then again maybe not.
And about the site--I doubt it would give away every detail about the story. Also, your other questions have been already discussed, I think. There's probably more than one thread about the ending already.
hey, i get the way the eps and the movie goes to the end, but i dont the end to well. from what i saw in eps the end seemed like ayato redid the world and reunited himself with haruka like others said but in movie it seemed like ayato moved on without haruka and haruka waited for ayato till she was old and one day left with him.
can anyone clarify that?
Basically, Ayato reclaimed his position as an "Observer of Time" and reconciled the world of the humans and of the Mulians. Haruka chose to live a past with Ayato, and she did. I guess being some sort of "god of time" has its quirks, but anyway--I suggest you purchase the R1 dvd (it's out by now) since it comes with a booklet which talks about the movie, some explanations, its ending and other translation notes. If you buy the one which comes with the box, you get another bonus booklet which even has more extra info!
Basically, Ayato reclaimed his position as an "Observer of Time" and reconciled the world of the humans and of the Mulians. Haruka chose to live a past with Ayato, and she did. I guess being some sort of "god of time" has its quirks, but anyway--I suggest you purchase the R1 dvd (it's out by now) since it comes with a booklet which talks about the movie, some explanations, its ending and other translation notes. If you buy the one which comes with the box, you get another bonus booklet which even has more extra info!
what exactly do you mean by "haruka chose to live a past with ayato" can you explain that a little more.
and i will look into the R1 dvd and see what it has. thanks
It's kind of complicated to explain. So here it goes:
The concept of the movie revolves around the idea of the pluralization of worlds. There's the world of the Mulians and the world of the Humans. To reconcile this, (the situation was on the verge of total collapse for both worlds) an "Observer of Time" is needed, and Ayato had to reclaim that position. In other words, he can no longer stay as a human being and stay with Haruka. So Haruka was given a choice.
Since one's life is the accumulation of one's memories, Ayato asks her which past she wanted to return to, and Haruka gives her answer--that is, to live her life with him as it should've been. And that's what happened in the end. They grew up together and grew old together. In fact, you actually get to see Ayato's altar in that scene. The circumstances of his death are never explained, thereby making that scene more meaningful. (kudos to ADV for actually translating his posthumous name. :))
Sorry, but that's the best explanation I can give. It's been a while since I last watched the movie and I didn't even bother to stay that focused during that time. Plus, a friend of mine borrowed my dvd!
But trust me. Go out and get that dvd if you really want the info. It may not be that extensive, but it helps--considering that there are some drastic differences between the series and the movie. Too bad the booklet is just about the movie (although you can probably make some connections with the series). I wish the series had the same extras, since there are a few details I want clarified for me.
thank you kujoe, that explaination really helps, i will get the dvd whenever i get the chance to.
/edit: so:
in the end after the earth was covered in egg shell thing, ayato retunes the world to the the way it would have been if haruka and ayato had not not seperated. And then haruka grows old (movie) she has a grand daughter and it is shown that ayato has passed away for unknown reasons. right after that when haruka see's ayato's "god" form she disappears.
i dont quite get the disappearance, where does she go?
p.s. rahxephon rocked.
Yea but when Anime Junkies fansubbed SEED they spelled Athrun as Asuran. Not sure if other groups did or not as I only have the Anime Junkies subs.
Well, I think you'll have to get with the program here - it's Athrun. Not because the other fansub groups are spelling his name that way, it's because that's how it sounds AND that's how Sunrise/Bandai spell his name.
Morisato
2005-12-23, 05:25
OMG, this series confused me to no fucking end. Just as I thought I've finally figured out something, it confuses me even more!!!!!!!!!!!
Does anyone know of a website with an indepth analysis of this series?
Some questions.
1) Did anyone else think that Commander Kunugi looked alot like Sylvester Stallone?
2) Who's Ayato's real mother? Father? Doctor Itsuki said 2 Ollins were created by the foundation and he was one of them? And he says someone is his brother (Ayato?) Ayato's supposed mother calls Quon sister and something about taking care of him. Quon is Ayato's real mother? Quon is Ayato "mother's" real sister? Then is she also the daughter of that old fat professor guy? Was the eye patch guy supposed to be Ayato's father? Cause near the end, the sly reporter guy said Professor Kamina and that is your son or something like that.
3) Who did Itsuki really like? Haruka, Quon or that other psychotic one? And at the last episode, why the fuck did she stab him? That made no fucking sense.
4) Was Lord Bahbem really ever explained? He's a few thousand years old? Is he like god/devil?
5) How does that reporter guy know so much? Last episode, he confronts Bahbem like he known him for a long time. Is he as old as Bahbem?
6) Why did Sou (the major) like set up Makoto? He risked the survival of mankind just so he gets fired? Like wow, what the hell. I think he pretty much knew that all those MU were gonna come out and he didn't warn him. He was actually pretty happy cause Makoto got in trouble.
7) What was with all those Makoto clones in the soldier suits? What was with that creepy mini-Helena?
9) How did Makoto go from this kind caring person to the asshole he is now? When Ixtil appeared at TERRA, did she just hypnotise him into thinking she was real?
8) Is Mishima/Ixtil real? Was she just the spirit of Rahxephon? When she was pretending to be a TERRA personnel, she used the name Haruka and near the end of the series, during the flashback, the girl playing on the piano looked like Ixtil but it was actually Haruka. Ixtil also looks alot like Ayato's "Mother". Is Haruka really Ixtil/Mishima?
9) If Itsuki was Makoto's best friend, why did he "steal" everything Itsuki likes? He was the only one that stuck by him during the whole pet MU thing incident.
10) Ayato's "mother" is supposedly the leader of the MU but she doesn't seem to like her job or using Ayato at all.
11) Whose side is Quon on really? First she was with Bahbem then she somehow teleported to Ayato's mother side.
12) I don't understand this conspiracy thing, is Bahbem aiding the MU?
13) Did Ayato obliterate Quon at the end? Wasn't Haruka obliterated at the end? Were Quon and Ayato suppose to be the Adam and Eve of the new world?
14) What the hell happened at the end? Ayato regained his 12 years? Everything went back to normal? What happened to all the blue blood people?
15) What happened to Bahbem? Did his plan work?
And how does one become a MU? Ayato's mother was a human before she somehow became the leader of the MU.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2005-12-23, 07:52
thank you kujoe, that explaination really helps, i will get the dvd whenever i get the chance to.
/edit: so:
in the end after the earth was covered in egg shell thing, ayato retunes the world to the the way it would have been if haruka and ayato had not not seperated. And then haruka grows old (movie) she has a grand daughter and it is shown that ayato has passed away for unknown reasons. right after that when haruka see's ayato's "god" form she disappears.
i dont quite get the disappearance, where does she go?
p.s. rahxephon rocked.
She never actually grow old. The world was built in mere minutes with the old Haruka and the grand-daughter on it. Ayato built the world as if he never left her, but the events of their married life never occured. Instead, he offered the second-best thing; the memories of them being married, have children, etc. He couldn't do it for real because he is no longer human, and can't "advent" himself on Earth.
What Haruka got, is a whole world who thought she and Ayato were married, an instant family with grand-children, and memories that goes with the non-existent event.
Why? Because she wanted to know what it feels to love him as a human. And he granted that wish. Then, after that, she has no more regrets in joining him in a higher plane of existence.
Bracken33
2005-12-23, 19:16
***Spilers follow***
@ Morisato:
Here is a link to a website that might answer some of your questions: http://www.kenoki.com/nko/
I try to answer to or comment on some of your questions, though I lack full understanding of the anime.
I never understood why some of the characters behaved the way they did for example. Esspecially Quon is a mystery to me.
But that was ok, I do not understand real people´s motivations too quite often :heh:.
"1) Did anyone else think that Commander Kunugi looked alot like Sylvester Stallone?"
No, absolutely not :p .
"2)...."
Basically correct. The eye patch guy is Ayato´s genetic father. Quon is his genetic mother. Maya was his foster-Mother. Right?
Quon and Maya do not have any older human blood relatives. They are 100% Mu. The professor cannot be Quon´s father.
I think Maya and Quon do not look like sisters. But who knows. Maybe they are still real ones, because Mu siblings might look very differently.
"3) Who did Itsuki really like?"
I believe he loved Haruka and he thinks about Quon like a sister.
"5) How does that reporter guy know so much?"
He is also a secret agent, not only a reporter. He might have got access to a lot of secret information.
"7) What was with all those Makoto clones in the soldier suits? What was with that creepy mini-Helena?"
"Makoto" is pretty much the standard clone of the Babern Foundation, just like Boba Fet was the standard clone in Star Wars. Standard model for all tasks....
This was hard to bear for the Makoto and caused him to become insane in the end.
He was not as original and special as he thought (he was like the mud monster).
I don´t know why Babern made an additional Helena, but she of course can also be cloned as often as Babern wants.
8)+9) For me Mishima is just a special fantasy construct in an anime, like vampires are in other stories. I just accepted the abilities she had got, like mind control.
Many people seem to think she is something like Rahxephon´s soul. But what is a soul anyway?
I think Mishima looked like young Haruka to "seduce" Ayato to become one with Rahxephon and change the world. She chose a form he subconciously wanted.
People change, and friendships fade. Grown up Makoto is imho pathological ambitious and jealous too. He must prove his worth.
"14) What the hell happened at the end?"
Ayato in the end basically became as powerful as a god.
He changed the world in a way he wanted it to be (and he obviously wanted a happy end). He lived together with Haruka as a human beeing.
Ayato might even have fused with Itsuki to become one with him. Isn´t Ayato also a scientific genius in the end of the anime (not sure)?
I leave it at that for now.
tsurumaru
2005-12-23, 19:50
OMG, this series confused me to no fucking end. Just as I thought I've finally figured out something, it confuses me even more!!!!!!!!!!!
Does anyone know of a website with an indepth analysis of this series?
There are a few posted earlier in this thread, also see my earlier post for a synopsis of what happened and some further posts that clarify some additional points! :)
I found an interesting explanation of Rahxephon by hamano on GreenCine:
Did you know that Haruka Shitow's mother remarried? Haruka's original family name was.... MISHIMA! If you've been paying attention, it's becoming fairly clear that Haruka used to be Ayato's girlfriend when they were both 14 or so. Their age difference now is only because of the slower flow of time inside Tokyo Jupiter. Now you know why Haruka was so happy to give Ayato those gloves in the "Xmas" episode! She had made those for him YEARS ago, and was just then finally able to give them to him!
Remember that story about the 2 mysterious girls that emerged from the shrine/dimensional portal? They were 2 original Mulians (Old Man Bahbem is another original Mulian, who somehow achieved immortality) who were transported to the future (the present) through the portal. One was Ayato's "mother" Maya. The other was.... QUON!!! Quon went into a state of coma during which she didn't age. Maya was adopted by a scientist, Haruka's uncle, with whom Ayato, Haruka and Megumi now live. The scientists, which included Shirow, the goateed boss of Commander Kunugi experimented with the Mulian girls, with the backing of the Bahbem Foundation. It proved impossible to breed Maya to produce what Bahbem really wanted (a sousha, player who would someday "tune" the world) so they took genetic material (eggs?) out of the comatose Quon. Mixed with genetic material from Shirow, they produced twins, Ayato and Itsuki Kisaragi! Maya raised Ayato, and when Quon awoke, she went to live with her "brother" really her "son" Itsuki!
As Ayato was growing up, Maya took him on trips to Nirai Kanai, to visit her "father" and where Ayato met Haruka. Actually Reika Mishima is the spitting image of Haruka at 14! That is why Ayato's Ixtli took that form, the one closest to his heart. The two were cut off from each other when Tokyo Jupiter appeared, and Haruka ended up going to college with Itsuki and being attracted to him, the TWIN BROTHER of her real love Ayato!
Before Quon woke up, Itsuki was being raised by Bahbem along with 2 other kids who had potential to become sousha. Turns out none of them were as naturally talented as Ayato, and after she became conscious, Quon, causing much jealousy and ill feeling. Maybe Quon NEEDED to go into suspended animation, so that her age would match Ayato's. Because one Xephon is just not enough! You need a merger of 2 Xephon to create the final RahXephon, the entity that tunes the universe. Without the other one, Ayato's RahXephon is really just a sort of super-Dolem. Notice that Quon is now the 2nd Ollin, and that her Ixtli looks like her "son" Ayato? We're getting close to the end!
The Dolems are a type of ancient Mulian mecha that can be controlled by Mulians with elaborate helmets. Bahbem and his minions have lost the secret to this technology (the creature that Makoto Isshiki befriends in the caves is a Dolem fragment) but they've discovered the existence of the Xephon Shrines, under Tokyo and under that South Pacific Island. The vermillion fighters that Elvy and her crew end up piloting are actually robots built around Dolem technology developed by the Bahbem Foundation.
BTw most of this is explained the movie, especially the Reika=Haruka part.
Transpup
2007-07-06, 23:52
The doctor, if you all remember is Ayatos YOUNGER brother. Because Ayato was in Tokeyo Jupiter he was yonger in the real world. That being said, in the last scene Haruka is talking to Ayatos younger brother I.E the doctor, she even says it "What do you mean I'm monopolizing you big brother." The doctor is still alive, he is Ayatos little brother. The last scene is just how Ayato met haruka. The world was recreated, they are still the same people just everything is made a new.
flatulant
2008-06-17, 18:59
http://www.khantazi.org/Rec/Anime/MuTimeline.html
kk2extreme
2008-06-18, 23:17
maya being ayato's bio mother makes more sense to me, i think the movie explain stuffs clearer than the anime itself. (i watch the anime first, then the movie, but it is still pretty confusing after all that)
You have to remember that the movie and the series are different though. While the movie has a few explanations that could fit in the anime version, overall they're two separate stories. But I agree, the movie is a bit clearer than the anime.
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