View Full Version : Licensed Genshiken
Bought January's Afternoon for the Skuld figure, so the Genshiken was kind of a bonus. Even as Saki becomes more otaku, it looks like Madarame may be becoming less of one, from the way he dwells on her taunting of "otaku otaku otaku otaku" while buying doujin. He's really got it bad for her, that's for certain. What's scary is how casually Saki is in his company now. They even went out for a bite to eat together, without Kosaka, after they met co-incidently on the street. It ended in an uncomfortable moment on the subway as they returned back in any case. I suppose she's either starting to notice him (A scary thought in itself), or starting to notice his feelings for her.
*Tries to imagine a Madarame/Saki pairing, and wonders what the Manga-ka is thinking*
Onizuka-GTO
2004-11-28, 06:27
Bought January's Afternoon for the Skuld figure, so the Genshiken was kind of a bonus. Even as Saki becomes more otaku, it looks like Madarame may be becoming less of one, from the way he dwells on her taunting of "otaku otaku otaku otaku" while buying doujin. He's really got it bad for her, that's for certain. What's scary is how casually Saki is in his company now. They even went out for a bite to eat together, without Kosaka, after they met co-incidently on the street. It ended in an uncomfortable moment on the subway as they returned back in any case. I suppose she's either starting to notice him (A scary thought in itself), or starting to notice his feelings for her.
*Tries to imagine a Madarame/Saki pairing, and wonders what the Manga-ka is thinking*
NANDAAA??!!! UUSSOOOO!!!
WTF??!!!
A N/S pairing would REALLY ruin this for me, at leased make it Sasara...but....HIM?
:frustrated:
This will piss me off, just like the Ohno pairing, god i hope that's just a big fat LIE.
:mad:
He's really got it bad for her, that's for certain. What's scary is how casually Saki is in his company now. They even went out for a bite to eat together, without Kosaka, after they met co-incidently on the street. It ended in an uncomfortable moment on the subway as they returned back in any case. I suppose she's either starting to notice him (A scary thought in itself), or starting to notice his feelings for her.
As I understood it, Saki has always been casual... Madarame is even more of an otaku for thinking they aren't friends and can't be casual around each other just because Saki is going out with Kousaka.
I understood the subway scene as her totally rejecting him. I don't think it'll go anywhere, really.
Sydney2K
2004-11-28, 07:41
Bought January's Afternoon for the Skuld figure, so the Genshiken was kind of a bonus. Even as Saki becomes more otaku, it looks like Madarame may be becoming less of one, from the way he dwells on her taunting of "otaku otaku otaku otaku" while buying doujin. He's really got it bad for her, that's for certain. What's scary is how casually Saki is in his company now. They even went out for a bite to eat together, without Kosaka, after they met co-incidently on the street. It ended in an uncomfortable moment on the subway as they returned back in any case. I suppose she's either starting to notice him (A scary thought in itself), or starting to notice his feelings for her.Maybe they're just getting more human. Madarame perhaps is beginning to think that there might be something outside the four walls of the club and Saki is beginning to see that there's more to people than what's seen on the surface. In any case, I can't wait for the next tankubon to come out!Widya Santoso
As I understood it, Saki has always been casual... Madarame is even more of an otaku for thinking they aren't friends and can't be casual around each other just because Saki is going out with Kousaka.
I understood the subway scene as her totally rejecting him. I don't think it'll go anywhere, really.
The relationship mightn't, but considering how many chapters this has taken up, I'd say it's going to be a major plot point for a while yet.
The relationship mightn't, but considering how many chapters this has taken up, I'd say it's going to be a major plot point for a while yet.
Again, I saw it in the completely opposite view - it's taken many chapters so far, but this is the end.
Again, I saw it in the completely opposite view - it's taken many chapters so far, but this is the end.
It'll probably last, at the very least, a few chapters more. The manga would have to at least address the uncomfortable tension between them and give it a little more closure. However, I do think that it would be somewhat "strange" for those two to be hooking up--and yes, even if Kohsaka's head seems to be stuck in the clouds. "Strange" not because I think Madarame doesn't deserve her or vice-versa but because they just seem to be so extremely different from each other.
Saki and Madarame have always been for me "good as friends but better as enemies," which is one of the reasons why I find the Genshiken crew a colorful group of people.
Sydney2K
2004-11-29, 07:46
It'll probably last, at the very least, a few chapters more. The manga would have to at least address the uncomfortable tension between them and give it a little more closure. However, I do think that it would be somewhat "strange" for those two to be hooking up--and yes, even if Kohsaka's head seems to be stuck in the clouds. "Strange" not because I think Madarame doesn't deserve her or vice-versa but because they just seem to be so extremely different from each other. Don't they say, opposites attract?
Saki and Madarame have always been for me "good as friends but better as enemies," which is one of the reasons why I find the Genshiken crew a colorful group of people.Actually, I can see this happening:Saki happens across Madarame at the club room, they have a few beers, they get quite drunk, and... to cut a long story short, they wake up next morning- nude, and nursing terrible hangovers. As they turn and look at each other they say in unison, "This never leaves the room!!!"Widya Santoso
--
It could make an interesting doujinshi...
dreamless
2004-11-29, 07:56
Actually, I can see this happening:Saki happens across Madarame at the club room, they have a few beers, they get quite drunk, and... to cut a long story short, they wake up next morning- nude, and nursing terrible hangovers. As they turn and look at each other they say in unison, "This never leaves the room!!!"Widya Santoso
--
It could make an interesting doujinshi...
well, this is a very... interesting idea...:D
yup someone should make a doujinshi out of it :heh:
Don't they say, opposites attract?
More like extreme opposites from where they're coming from if you ask me--which is why I don't find it surprising that Madarame tries to clean up his act, and tries to look good in front of her. (i.e. Buying new clothes. God forbid that he spends his money on something not related to anime and manga! :D )
I think one of the the main points of the events so far is more on how Madarame copes with his attraction towards Saki. I'm just not exactly sure if this ties in with the kind of otaku that he is.
Actually, I can see this happening:Saki happens across Madarame at the club room, they have a few beers, they get quite drunk, and... to cut a long story short, they wake up next morning- nude, and nursing terrible hangovers. As they turn and look at each other they say in unison, "This never leaves the room!!!"Widya Santoso
--
It could make an interesting doujinshi...
Heh. I bet someone out there is already working on it. :heh:
Hi,
is the Genshiken manga avaliable for download somewhere or is it licensed in the USA? I wanna read it too :help:
IIRC it's licensed by Central Park Media. The manga.
Mr_Paper
2004-11-29, 10:36
Guys, why not find or start a Genshiken thread in the manga section and discuss the manga there instead of the anime thread?
IIRC it's licensed by Central Park Media. The manga.
Ow -.-
Thnks anyway :)
IIRC it's licensed by Central Park Media. The manga.
Actually, its Del Rey, and this really does need a manga split off topic.
Edit: Typo'd Del Rey >_>
Heh. I bet someone out there is already working on it. :heh:
*Puts Genshiken & Kujiun doujin on his Comike shopping list*
I'll recieve my catalogues in about 2 weeks (Man they've come out late this time), so if I find anything, I'll be sure to let you all know. I *will* be taking orders! ;)
Actually, its Del Ray
Del Rey (http://www.randomhouse.com/author/results.pperl?authorid=60656)
Hmmm... something strikes me as familiar in this installment of Megatokyo (http://www.megatokyo.com/index.php?strip_id=641) ;)
And isn't she just perfect for the part? Hell, with the Aquired taste for Cosplay, not to mention playing the same person she did, you could almost think of her as the spitting image of Saki.
Onizuka-GTO
2004-12-19, 06:07
i've just had the pleasure of picture-reading the Genshiken manga raws, and now im even more curious over the new girl!
Is it just my crappy picture-reading skills, or does there seem to be some sort of "rival" thing with her and Ohno-san?
And maybe it's just my wishful thinking (since i think he needs some loving!) but do i see the new lass and Sasahara getting close? (bear with me, i'm kinda still depressed over Ohno-san's pairing...)
I mean in chapter 31 they seem to get alooong reaaallly well.... I'll be gutted if they don't get together. And i also suspect it won't show up in the anime either, eh?
oh. and about Saki's cosplay and er...kosaka...erm...crossdressing cosplay. i really hope they put it in the Anime!! i swear, if they have to end this short series, at leased end it with Saki cosplaying the Chairman (chairwoman?)er i mean chairperson!!!
:heh:
Mr.Minou
2004-12-19, 12:30
hmmmmmm can someone tell me who is ohno's boyfriend ? :D
hmmmmmm can someone tell me who is ohno's boyfriend ? :D
Tanaka Souichirou - forgot which chapter this is made official in, though. But it's easy to tell from the earliest moments in manga & anime that they are just meant for each other.
Also, if you think about it, Tanaka is the closest among the guys to Ohno's image of the ideal man.
Mr.Minou
2004-12-20, 05:23
ok thanks you guys :) well it was quite hinted from the beginning I think :p
Also, if you think about it, Tanaka is the closest among the guys to Ohno's image of the ideal man. Ehh? A little too hairy (it's in a ponytail in fact!) and definitely not that old ne? Otherwise it is quite a good pairing, you can imagine the cosy scene in the evenings at ye wee holme: Ohno trying on some costume in front of the fire while Tanaka sews away in another corner of the living room...^^
Onizuka-GTO
2004-12-20, 09:56
i think sasahara gets a kanojo too!!!
why? cos....
he gets along with the yaoi loving otaku lass!!
i remember one scen when his sister comes to see him, and spots the new girl who is having a nice chat with him in the previous panel, and the new girl and sasahara's sister both turn to him and say at the same time, something along the line of "who is this weird girl?" hahahahaha
to me it just shows how much closer they are getting, that she turns to him first before anyother person to ask. plus she looks hot when she dresses up!! go Sasahara!!! you cant just have Kosaka and Tanaka get some!!!
hehehe :heh:
Ehh? A little too hairy (it's in a ponytail in fact!) and definitely not that old ne? Otherwise it is quite a good pairing, you can imagine the cosy scene in the evenings at ye wee holme: Ohno trying on some costume in front of the fire while Tanaka sews away in another corner of the living room...^^
Years from now, Tanaka just could end up being the rugged, middle-aged ideal for Kanako. The rest don't seem to have the necessary genes. :heh:
Kamui4356
2006-02-04, 20:12
Hmm... No activity since the forum reset...:heh:
Anyway, I bought the english vol 4 from del ray and I was wondering about something. On page 101, Sasahara is being shown some ero-sketches Kugayami drew. There's a black box with the word censored in it over the actual sketch. I was just wondering if that was in the original japanese version? Hopefully it wasn't added in the US version...
DingoEnderZOE2
2006-02-05, 00:47
When you say original Japanese version, do you mean before it was translated in English? If so then you've gotten the answer to your question. Why would it be a English only addition anyway?
Anyway, I bought the english vol 4 from del ray and I was wondering about something. On page 101, Sasahara is being shown some ero-sketches Kugayami drew. There's a black box with the word censored in it over the actual sketch. I was just wondering if that was in the original japanese version? Hopefully it wasn't added in the US version...
I bought the Chinese translated version by Tong Li and it also had the black boxes. In volume 5, they actually included the heavily censored Doujinshi at the end as an extra. Wondered about the same thing too. Guess it's another parody sort of thing they do for the comic, because they can't really put in pornographic contents.
Now it'll be funny if they really sell the Doujinshi at Comiket.
I wanna read volume 7, need my Ohno fix. :(
Kamui4356
2006-02-05, 06:08
I bought the Chinese translated version by Tong Li and it also had the black boxes. In volume 5, they actually included the heavily censored Doujinshi at the end as an extra. Wondered about the same thing too. Guess it's another parody sort of thing they do for the comic, because they can't really put in pornographic contents.
Now it'll be funny if they really sell the Doujinshi at Comiket.
I wanna read volume 7, need my Ohno fix. :(
Ah. Thanks that answers my question. :) I doubt it'd be in both the english and chinese releases if it wasn't in the original japanese.
@DingoEnderZOE2- It wouldn't have been the first time an english version had been censored. Looks like that isn't the case this time, though I wanted to make sure. :heh:
Random Otaku
2006-02-17, 19:34
What's this I hear about the manga ending it's run around April this year? ;_;
The UK sucks for Genshiken manga.. only got the first two volumes on sale here! ;_;
I've been meaning to import volumes 3 & 4.. but i think i might go the way that Riker's doing. ^^;
What's this I hear about the manga ending it's run around April this year? ;_;
I wouldn't be too surprised if it ends up with the 8th volume being the last. Certainly in Afternoon they've been making a big deal about it going on "just a little bit longer."
The end seems pretty near, considering that otaku humor has taken a backseat for character relationships. Perhaps this is just temporary? However, I do think when these current developments reach their conclusion, it would be a good time to end the story entirely. Like, maybe when Sasahara graduates or something.
The end seems pretty near, considering that otaku humor has taken a backseat for character relationships. Perhaps this is just temporary? However, I do think when these current developments reach their conclusion, it would be a good time to end the story entirely. Like, maybe when Sasahara graduates or something.
I agree.
The series started off with Sasahara's cohort and would be good to end with his cohort graduating.
(Except for Ohno who has a special reason. :()
The UK sucks for Genshiken manga.. only got the first two volumes on sale here! ;_;
I've been meaning to import volumes 3 & 4.. but i think i might go the way that Riker's doing. ^^;
Then I suggest you do what I do and order them on amazon.co.uk. The release dates are the same as the U.S. release dates and Vol 4 was recently released (plus Amazon seems the cheapest way to get manga in the U.K. and free postage with orders over £15)
Vol 1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345481690/qid=1140264818/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_3_2/203-3518082-9793512) : 26th Apr £5.66
Vol 2 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345481704/qid=1140264818/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3_3/203-3518082-9793512) : 26th July £5.66
Vol 3 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345481712/qid=1140264818/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/203-3518082-9793512) : 25th Oct £5.66
Vol 4 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345482425/qid=1140264818/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_3_1/203-3518082-9793512) : 31st Jan £5.66
Vol 5 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/034549153X/qid=1140264818/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_3_6/203-3518082-9793512) : 25th April £5.66
Vol 6 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345491548/qid=1140264818/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_3_2/203-3518082-9793512) : 25th July £5.66
Yeah, thats what i've been meaning to do for a while.. just haven't got around to it.
Amazon's the place where i get most of my Manga, release dates suck in the UK.
Sakuyakun
2006-07-15, 11:22
It's finally done! Is there anyone who can summarize what happened to each characters by the end of the manga?
There's a good summary of the final chapter over at Heisei Democracy. (http://heiseidemocracy.net/2006/06/03/manga-review-genshiken-chapter-50-final/)
Sakuyakun
2006-07-15, 14:37
Thank you! this is great :)
iv read summries and saw the raw.. i had a theory from the begining, i think its what happened in the end..
in the end sasahara gets a job with a manga company. so i always thought that sasahara is the creator of the manga, and he was telling a story of his friends in college
Sydney2K
2006-08-30, 04:59
Heisei Democracy reports (http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/08/30/genshiken-the-saga-continues/) that tankubon 8 will feature two extra chapters, and tankubon 9 will be published in two editions, the normal bookshop edition, and a special limited edition with a doujinshi insert and CD drama, and possibly more chapters to round off the chapter number.
Widya Santoso
I was reading about this, very good news.
Who knows, it might end up carryingo n from volume 09.. but all i know is, its time to preorder that special edition.
IMSabbel
2007-12-15, 02:44
So now it did end.
Like many stories, it did run a bit too long, and lost its way a bit in the last 3rd.
But still, the graduation did make me almost as sad as the one in azumanga daioh.
I also loved the penultimate chapter.
Vicious108
2008-01-02, 11:09
Just finished the anime and I would like to know if the manga goes more in depth about Madarame's crush on Saki subplot? I was really interested in that and was disappointed to see it didn't go anywhere in the anime.
Uribatake
2008-01-02, 11:24
Just finished the anime and I would like to know if the manga goes more in depth about Madarame's crush on Saki subplot? I was really interested in that and was disappointed to see it didn't go anywhere in the anime.
There's something of a resolution to that in one of the last chapters, but you shouldn't expect much. I found it poignant and somewhat satisfying though.
Vicious108
2008-01-02, 13:38
I see, I'll look it up then. Thanks.
Just finished. Great ending. Sad that most will break apart, but that is what happens.
Everyone is moving on with their lives and we even have three couples. Well two since one was together since the begining. And since these three couples fit together so well, I also assume they will stay with each other and have families.
I wonder how it will be with Ogiue and Sue, lol. The Americans were one of the funnier parts in my opinion.
I thought the ending was fitting for the series. The extra chapter in the end wasn't really worth. As for Madarame—what a champ, takin' it to his grave.
I don't remember the chapter number, but I read all the Del Rey books.
The graduation and after party was 55.
shinobiknight0
2008-01-11, 15:57
This manga series ended up being in my top 3 mangas ever.
I just loved the story, but the 53rd or 54th chapter left me confused. What happened to Mardarame? What was he doing with those pictures?
The end was pretty satisfying, though, and Ogiue's my favorite character(I <3 tomboys).
I just loved the story, but the 53rd or 54th chapter left me confused. What happened to Mardarame? What was he doing with those pictures?
In anime, don't guys usually buy pictures of the girls they like from the photographer guy?
shinobiknight0
2008-01-20, 15:41
In anime, don't guys usually buy pictures of the girls they like from the photographer guy?
Ohh, so that's what it was. The chapter was so silent I didn't know how she reacted when she saw him with the pictures.
Vicious108
2008-02-27, 00:08
There's something of a resolution to that in one of the last chapters, but you shouldn't expect much. I found it poignant and somewhat satisfying though.
Well this response is nearly 3 months old, but I finally read the manga and was quite pleased with the conclusion to the Madarame/Saki subplot. Even shed some manly tears... okay maybe not so manly, but yeah.
Overall this was an amazing series. I liked the anime and all, but the manga is on a whole other level. The ending kinda felt like Azumanga Daioh's... as bittersweet as it gets. =')
i loved the ending but, hated that it ended. it is defs in my to 3.5 or 4th spot in my fav manga list.
i loved Ohno and Ogiue, they were so good in the final chapter when Ohno tries to spy on Sasahara and Ogiue were just about to do the deed in the room
i am really going to miss it. it is such a simple and i gess true to life manga series.
i hope they don't pack the anime series with all of the chapters.
i was so sad when it ended. i did't even know it was going to end and i did't know that the last volume was out so when i saw i downloaded it as quickly as i could and read it all in one go. i was so shocked at the last cahpter. so sad that it ended. i was emotional about it from the shock.
typhonsentra
2009-12-25, 14:58
I heard there was a new one-shot chapter that follows up the end of the story?
yep, its true! Such an awesome surprise :D
typhonsentra
2009-12-25, 22:13
Where can I find it? It's not on any of the main manga sites. I know you can't post links to RAWs.... but.... God this is driving me nuts!
The scan is out on mangafox.com
Equidistant
2009-12-29, 06:26
That was awesome, they even had a Bakemonogatari reference. You can never have enough Genshiken though.
To be honest, I didn't like it too much, and I know for sure that I wouldn't enjoy a long run with this setup.
Why?
Because the characters have become too wacky and extreme. At least I have difficulties relating to them, where in the past, I had no problems whatsoever. The setup is also problematic: Most of the show has revolved around the tension between the "normal" people played by charismatic Saki and the otaku world. And even here, a certain degree of "normalness" was retained, at least I could easily imagine meeting the old bunch. But the new one?
Kucchi is simply getting on my nerves. Ogiue (who I generally like) is so riddled with issues that it's not even funny anymore. Ohno is well-known, and the new characters seem pretty extreme. So, while I would get a feeling of "that's a place I could fit in" with the old cast, I doubt that I'd want to stick around with the new one.
80% of my fun with the old Genshiken was watching "normal" Saki grappling and eventually coming to terms with the otaku world. I don't see who could replace her...
man I just wished they just followed the college circle doing a beck style thing since they are all into the doujin scene. What made genshiken wasn't the plethora of characters but how the set amount of characters interacted with each other.
lixuelai
2009-12-29, 17:27
I LOLed so hard at this one shot. I was thinking oh wow a pretty girl joining Genshiken...how rare. Oh wait maybe not :heh::heh:
man I just wished they just followed the college circle doing a beck style thing since they are all into the doujin scene. What made genshiken wasn't the plethora of characters but how the set amount of characters interacted with each other.
Yeah pretty much, and this one shot chapter really brought that up again, and it shined so well. Talk about a blast from the past though, and yet again it reminds me how much i miss this one of a kind series.
I want the story to continue all the more now. Even if it's only one shots now and then, it would be better then nothing!
Vicious108
2009-12-31, 01:47
Great one shot. We never got to see enough Sue in the original series so it was great to see her in this, and the rest of the characters again too of course.
And haha a trap joining Genshiken, that's the perfect addition to an already weirdo-filled group.
I actually thought Makoto would be the one to be able to tell, though I guess Saki makes sense too.
Zeroryoko1974
2010-09-21, 12:58
More Genshiken manga on the way: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-09-21/genshiken-manga-returns-as-genshiken-ii
SageGaiGar
2010-09-22, 00:50
More Genshiken manga on the way: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-09-21/genshiken-manga-returns-as-genshiken-ii
Yeah!
Definitely looking forward to more of this series.
Soconfused
2010-09-22, 01:23
eh, didn't really need more. Should of just let it end. :(
SageGaiGar
2010-09-22, 10:39
eh, didn't really need more. Should of just let it end. :(
Point taken, since there's the chance it'll just drag on. Can't exactly replace the dynamic of the first set of characters.
Point taken, since there's the chance it'll just drag on. Can't exactly replace the dynamic of the first set of characters.
worst part is your going to be constantly reminded of them due to sasahara x oguie and that just seems like a torturous stick in the sides of lovers of the first series.
eh, didn't really need more. Should of just let it end. :(
Yeah basically how i feel. Sure i'd read more, though it's not necessarily needed.
Daniel E.
2010-09-22, 15:08
Hope they would at least try to return to the way Genshiken was in the beginning.
Or as Mentar put it some time back......
80% of my fun with the old Genshiken was watching "normal" Saki grappling and eventually coming to terms with the otaku world.
In my case, that would be around 90% of my fun. :meh:
Vicious108
2010-09-28, 12:48
I agree that the first series already felt complete, but I'm still excited to hear that a new series is coming, since I liked the author's work in the original so much.
Sure, it's hard to imagine it being nearly as good without Madarame and Saki around (at least, not nearly as much), but it deserves a shot.
I agree that the first series already felt complete, but I'm still excited to hear that a new series is coming, since I liked the author's work in the original so much.
Sure, it's hard to imagine it being nearly as good without Madarame and Saki around (at least, not nearly as much), but it deserves a shot.
How do you do that those two won't be around. If anything Madarame is pretty crucial in the series and I can't imagine him not being in this second series. Beside this just might revive the anime series and get a third season.
How do you do that those two won't be around. If anything Madarame is pretty crucial in the series and I can't imagine him not being in this second series. Beside this just might revive the anime series and get a third season.
Well there's a difference here. He might be apart of this new manga, though not as a main character. You can obviously tell that by the summary that was released.
Vicious108
2010-09-29, 16:39
Madarame was already mostly absent from the series once Ogiue came around and most of the originals graduated. It's common sense that he'll be around even less in this one, though I'd definitely be pleasently surprised if that wasn't the case. He was by far my favorite character in the first series.
I don't know considering Sue knew where his apartment was or w/e I'm sure he still hangs out at the club occasionally.
I spent the last 2 days rereading the series and I can't believe I forgot that Kousaka and Saki weren't dating at the start. For some reason I thought they were but I guess I just mixed it up since Saki was trying to get Kousaka at the start.
ITS OUT!!!!! ITS OUT!!!! Genshiken! Genshiken!
THE SECOND SERIES IS OUT!!!!!
Vicious108
2010-10-25, 20:16
And with a boring first chapter to boot. Hopefully things will get more interesting soon.
Boring? Boring? You call this boring? This is one of the nicest re introduction chapters I have seen in a while. Genshiken is not about the drama of some people rushing to make it to otakon. It's about the daily life of the club members, and as such this chapter excelled at that.
We do have a thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=97671) for it you know. :p
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