Rozen Maiden ~Träumend~ (Season 2) [Archive] - Page 15

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RM-FAN

2006-06-05, 22:47

RM-FAN, congrats for the 3500 post GET. :)

Cool. Linkin Park + Gin = awesome. Oh shit - that's an ominous remake. :|

jeje, thanks ^^

tell me, ¿what you think about of the scans that i submit in the message # 3500?

Flo

2006-06-05, 22:47

jeje, thanks ^^

tell me, ¿what you think about of the scans that i submit in the message # 3500?
Can't see a single thing, place like wakachan nad danbooru disallow direct linking the images, upload them using www.imageshack.us or www.xs.to

The Life and Death of Suigintou after Megu's death.
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3633/113504848kw.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/155/113504868pc.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/3383/113504856da.gif
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/1543/113504898kl.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/7724/113504913xu.jpg
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4124/113504930mj.jpg

The End =(

Lost

2006-06-05, 22:53

Flo, that was tragically beautiful, sob :( And it even looks like it was drawn on the back of Supermarket Coupons sob.

physics223

2006-06-05, 22:58

Ethan, why aren't you going online? Standing by to only post at the RM thread and not talking to me ... :'( HAHAHAHAHA LOL

Yeah, I agree with Lost, it's very well made. At least she discovered humanity. :)

Alu

2006-06-05, 23:08

What's with the "strange-looking" Angel's in the last picture.. ?, there is even a drunken one there... ^^

Also.., the first one where Gin is going through the trash.., it ruins the entire concept..; I mean.., I can acept that she would certanly feel lonely, and even maybe wandered along until her body gaved out after Megu's death..

But.., the having that first picture there.., it just needs to be removed :p

RM-FAN

2006-06-05, 23:15

hey all people, i submit again the images for this not use much space

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/715/11388056244004xq.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11388056244004xq.jpg)

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/512/danboorup1141801694625394qd.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danboorup1141801694625394qd.jpg)

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1770/11411565422545eu.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11411565422545eu.jpg)

THIS IS THE MORE HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6582/11387015042646ya.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11387015042646ya.jpg)

physics223

2006-06-05, 23:16

Scouring with the trash - that really invokes pathos. I mean, it's pitiful. Maybe it's to heighten the tragedy and Gin's nobility.

Flo

2006-06-05, 23:16

hey all people, i submit again the images for this not use much space

Spoiler tag them please.

PS. 3rd one is fake.

RM-FAN

2006-06-05, 23:22

Kirakishou isn't a Rozen Maiden? (maybe this is why she has no doll joints where her shoulders are) If so, who and where is the seventh Rozen Maiden Doll?

MMM, good question, but ¿you dont think that is very suspech that the grandomther of that girl disapiar?

abang brother

2006-06-05, 23:44

if kira no 7th doll .. then who .. or mayb there is no 7th doll

Kira is more like barasuishou, kinda mysterious and always hiding from the other sisters...

Mincemaker

2006-06-06, 01:36

Suigintou searching the trash? I can at most imagine her sitting on top of Megu's grave doing nothing but sobbing, but cannot imagine her searching for trash.

Though I doubt Suigintou would do nothing but sob. I think she is more likely to do what she used to do before meeting Megu, that is, to sit in her N-field and brood.

Kirakishou, I believe, is a doll, but she is also a psycho, a total psycho. But if she isn't a doll, then that explains why she doesn't have a pair. All the other dolls had their pairs.

abang brother

2006-06-06, 02:46

*tsk*tsk*

what do you mean like twins or someone who awake at the same time??

like this? ..

Gin and Stinku
Sou and Sui
Hina and kana

Mincemaker

2006-06-06, 06:09

*tsk*tsk*

what do you mean like twins or someone who awake at the same time??

like this? ..

Gin and Stinku
Sou and Sui
Hina and kana

By tradition, Victorian porcelain dolls, just like the Rozen Maiden, usually came in pairs. So in those times, you usually buy two dolls, the pairs, at once. These two dolls tend to share rather similar characteristics.

In Rozen Maiden, the pairs identified were:

Suigintou and Shinku, the elegant pair
Souseiseki and Suiseiseki, the gardening pair

and

Hinaichigo and Kanaria, the 'chibi' pair.

Notice that each one of them share similar aspects.

However, in the case of the seventh doll, Kirakishou, she doesn't have a pair, which is kinda abnormal. And even her clothes don't even seem Victorian, if you ask me.

abang brother

2006-06-06, 06:24

if like that it must be theres another doll or kira is not the doll and there is only 6 dolls ...

Mincemaker

2006-06-06, 06:29

if like that it must be theres another doll or kira is not the doll and there is only 6 dolls ...

That's why I said Kirakishou is abnormal. And her insanity only serves to add up the mysticism that is Kirakishou. Is she really a doll? Where are her doll joints which are supposed to be at the shoulder? Who is her pair? What is her agenda? Does she represent any aspect of perfect feminism? And is she nothing but insane?

And speaking of aspects of feminism, my deduction on what each doll represents are:

Shinku - Nobility
Suigintou - Purity (her love for 'Father' was the purest)
Hinaichigo - love (Her love for Tomoe turned into possessiveness)
Souseiseki - Faith and loyalty
Suiseiseki - Sublime (Tsundere!)
Kanaria - Talent (wields violin)

So, what does Kirakishou represent?

abang brother

2006-06-06, 06:33

That's why I said Kirakishou is abnormal. And her insanity only serves to add up the mysticism that is Kirakishou. Is she really a doll? Where are her doll joints which are supposed to be at the shoulder? Who is her pair? What is her agenda? Does she represent any aspect of perfect feminism? And is she nothing but insane?

And speaking of aspects of feminism, my deduction on what each doll represents are:

Shinku - Nobility
Suigintou - Purity (her love for 'Father' was the purest)
Hinaichigo - love (Her love for Tomoe turned into possessiveness)
Souseiseki - Faith and loyalty
Suiseiseki - Sublime (Tsundere!)
Kanaria - Talent (wields violin)

So, what does Kirakishou represent?

Kirakisou - Mysterious (Always hiding in N-field)

Mincemaker

2006-06-06, 06:42

Kirakisou - Mysterious (Always hiding in N-field)

Possible.

Now let's talk about the negative aspects of each doll. I'm sure we didn't really discuss this much.

Suigintou - Cruelty! <3
Shinku - Arrogance
Suiseiseki - Mischievous
Souseiseki - Stubborness
Hinaichigo - Gluttony (and possessiveness, like what she did to Tomoe)
Kanaria - Egoism

And from what I deduced about Kirakishou, could be wrong though:

Kirakishou - Insanity (never expect a doll more insane than either Bara or Gin-sama until she came along)

abang brother

2006-06-06, 06:46

now my turn

Gin - Evilness
Shinku - Unsocialize
Suiseiseki - Bully
Souseiseki - Stubborness(kinda agree)
Hinaichigo - Weakness
Kanaria - Egonessity
Kirakisou - Scaredy-cat

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 06:52

now my turn

Gin - Evilness
Shinku - Unsocialize
Suiseiseki - Bully
Souseiseki - Stubborness(kinda agree)
Hinaichigo - Weakness
Kanaria - Egonessity
Kirakisou - Scaredy-cat

I don't think that Kirakishou is a scaredy cat but rather she can't escape the N-field.

abang brother

2006-06-06, 06:55

She is because she dont want to reveal her appearence to the other dolls

Mincemaker

2006-06-06, 06:59

Didn't notice the profile, but apparently, she has no physical body. That must had explained why she lacks shoulder joints. And why didn't she have a physical body? Rozen didn't make it? Or he already prepared the Roza Mystica, but didn't complete the physical body, so the Roza Mystica created a spiritual manifestation of itself and we got Kirakishou?

Aned why didn't Rozen make her a physical 'shell'?

Ah, the mystery that is Kirakishou, but I take Suigintou anyday.

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 07:12

NezoR

2006-06-06, 07:18

Suigintou - Wicked (even though she has a good side)
Kanaria - Arrogant and annoying
Suiseiseki - Mischievous and cruel (she also doesn't hesitate to lie)
Souseiseki - Stubborn (agreed)
Hinaichigo - Possessive (agreed)
Shinku - Conceited
Barasuishou - Cold and heartless

Suiseiseki oftentimes appears as though she is a cute and sweet little doll, but she has a very malicious and malevolent side to her personality (that's why Jun always refer to her as a "demon doll"). I still love her though. :D

abang brother

2006-06-06, 07:18

if like that there might be 1 more doll who isnt awake yet ...

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 07:24

An unknown eighth Rozen Maiden doll will be awesome!

NezoR

2006-06-06, 07:55

abang brother

2006-06-06, 08:40

Impossible ... If Jun is Rozen, he might knew it but maybe he have the same power with their father...

On the traumend

Those created along the way are the Rozen Maidens"

maybe there are more Rozen Maidens that will be made

Mincemaker

2006-06-06, 08:54

To everyone who has seen episode 8 of Rozen Maiden Traumend, what do you think of this...

{Rozen Maiden Traumend by Ayu} episode-8 (12:48)

"Transcending time, changing his appearance, Father exists in every world in order to create Alice. Those created along the way are the Rozen Maidens"

{Rozen Maiden by Hitsuji} episode-12 (9:47)

"Impossible. How can he fix a part that was broken? Something like that... unless a maestro appears, no one except father should be able to do that! Has such a person finally arrived?"

Jun could be Rozen.

Well, this was discussed, but I came to a conclusion that Jun is a Maestro, more specifically, a Maestro in the arts of Sewing (read: "Magical fingers").

Rozen, on the other hand, is a Maestro of Dollmaking (obvious, duh!).

Jun and Rozen are different people. And Rozen appearing in the N-field in the last episode of Traumend pretty much proves that.

Seeing that both are Maestros, but in different fields, I think Jun can, like Rozen, fix dolls. Hey, Suigintou didn't say the Maestro has to be a Maestro of dollmaking. Just Maestro. Jun, with his skills in sewing, already qualifies as one.

NezoR

2006-06-06, 09:34

Well, this was discussed, but I came to a conclusion that Jun is a Maestro, more specifically, a Maestro in the arts of Sewing (read: "Magical fingers").

Rozen, on the other hand, is a Maestro of Dollmaking (obvious, duh!).

Jun and Rozen are different people. And Rozen appearing in the N-field in the last episode of Traumend pretty much proves that.

Seeing that both are Maestros, but in different fields, I think Jun can, like Rozen, fix dolls. Hey, Suigintou didn't say the Maestro has to be a Maestro of dollmaking. Just Maestro. Jun, with his skills in sewing, already qualifies as one.

I somewhat disagree and both you and abang brother conveniently skipped the phrase....

"Transcending time, changing his appearance, Father exists in every world in order to create Alice."

What does this mean? Seems to me that Rozen is a metaphor and not a person, i.e. Jun can fix and create a Rozen Maiden doll if he wanted to. Also, I find it highly suspicious that.....

in episode 12 of RMT (19:08 - 19:41) Jun and this supposed "Rozen" suddenly switches places. BTW, when Suigintou says......

"Something like that... unless a maestro appears, no one except father should be able to do that! Has such a person finally arrived"

Note that she used the term "father" and not "Rozen". IMO, Suigintou was implying that another "Rozen" may have appeared. My theory is that "Rozen" is not a single person and there may be many undiscovered Rozen Maidens out there who were created by different people. BTW, I also believe that the image of Alice that we see in the anime is what Alice will look like if Suigintou became Alice... i.e. if Shinku became "Alice" she would look different.

abang brother

2006-06-06, 09:50

Father exists in every world in order to create Alice.

In every world, meaning that there are more people like Jun in every world.

Has such a person finally arrived"

Such person, meaning that Suigintou know that people who exactly like Rozen has born?

Mincemaker

2006-06-06, 10:02

She said no one but father, because 'Father' is the only Maestro she knew. The 'person' Suigintou was referring to is a Maestro. And up until now, she didn't know any other Maestro but 'Father'. Then here comes Jun, another Maestro. Suigintou was surprised that Jun was able to fix dolls, because she didn't expect another Maestro to 'present himself'. Well, that's obvious. Having lived for so many years, she didn't meet any Maestros. Then all the sudden, when she least expect it, Jun fixed Shinku, proving that indeed, he is no novice, but a Maestro in the arts.

And this ties to Shinku commenting about Jun being an excellent tailor. Jun could fix Rozen Maiden dolls, so he must be a Maestro. A Maestro is a master of a field of art. What field was Jun involved in? Tailoring! So this means that he is not just skillful, he is a master tailor, in other words, Maestro of Sewing.

They were two different people, and also in the last episode of Traumend, we see Rozen walking in through the door, not switching place with Jun. Jun is a Maestro, but he is not 'Father'. Jun can magically fix dolls, but actually making one is a different matter altogether. That one needs training, and Jun didn't have such training, so he obviously can't make dolls. At least not yet anyway until he takes interest in making dolls and starts learning to make one. And no Barbie dolls. I mean porcelain dolls.

It is pointed out much earlier that dollmaking is a very complicated process. Not something you can just go about snapping fingers and expect a doll to be made.

From what I deduced anyway.

And Transcending Time. Well, Rozen is still well and alive in the N-field, isn't he? After so many years? So he had transcended time. Changing appearance? None of the dolls could even remember what Rozen looked like.

NezoR

2006-06-06, 10:33

In your post I will replace the word maestro with Rozen.

She said no one but father, because 'Father' is the only Rozen she knew. The 'person' Suigintou was referring to is a Rozen. And up until now, she didn't know any other Rozen but 'Father'. Then here comes Jun, another Rozen. Suigintou was surprised that Jun was able to fix dolls, because she didn't expect another Rozen to 'present himself'. Well, that's obvious. Having lived for so many years, she didn't meet any other Rozens. Then all the sudden, when she least expect it, Jun fixed Shinku, proving that indeed, he is no novice, but another Rozen.

Makes more sense to me. Remember, I said that I believe that Rozen is a metaphor, not a single person. Let me be more clear. It seems to me that Shinku and Suigintou are implying that Jun is a Rozen (i.e. a maestro that can create and breath life into dolls through love with the intent to create the perfect girl). IMO, Anju isn't a Rozen because if you look closely at Barasuishou's behaviour she doesn't appear to be alive but just a mere robot that copies other peoples behaviour.

They were two different people, and also in the last episode of Traumend, we see Rozen walking in through the door, not switching place with Jun. Jun is a Maestro, but he is not 'Father'.

True, but I'm talking specifically about the scene where "Rozen" was talking to Shinku and then Jun appeared in his place. I find that scene a bit suspicious.

And Transcending Time. Well, Rozen is still well and alive in the N-field, isn't he? After so many years? So he had transcended time. Changing appearance? None of the dolls could even remember what Rozen looked like.

Why would he change his appearance? Also, keep in mind that there is no direct evidence in the anime that the guy at the beginning of RMT created Suigintou, Souseiseki, Suiseiseki, Kanaria or Hinaichigo. It was clear that he created Shinku, but there is no proof so far (based upon the anime) that he created the other dolls.

abang brother

2006-06-06, 10:45

Means that each dolls is being created by diffferent people?

Jun is really a Maestro just that he dont know maybe Shinku has not yet explain about it to him or she forgot to.

NezoR

2006-06-06, 10:52

Means that each dolls is being created by diffferent people?

Possibly, with each Rozen/creator having a different "game" or "way" for their doll to become Alice. This was also hinted in the anime.

abang brother

2006-06-06, 11:09

Oh ya, Rozen said that only to Shinku .. That will be the ultimate clue that each doll been made by others because Rozen only said that to Shinku. Probally that there is a soft and polite way to become Alice.

Nightbat®

2006-06-06, 11:25

What I still don't get is why Suigintou still has her rosa mystica
she was defeated by Shinku in the Alice Game

And like Hina and Sou -according to rozen himself- lost their ro/my fair and square in the game and weren't returned to their bodies

So,....
What's the real story behind Gin's revival

ps: guys, pleas use spoilertags concerning the manga

naming something "what every RM-fan should see" without any warning, while
non-manga fans (at least one: me) don't want to be spoiled is rather irritating

Thanks

NezoR

2006-06-06, 11:59

What I still don't get is why Suigintou still has her rosa mystica she was defeated by Shinku in the Alice Game

And like Hina and Sou -according to rozen himself- lost their ro/my fair and square in the game and weren't returned to their bodies

So,....
What's the real story behind Gin's revival

No. It's the fake doll Barasuishou that killed Suigintou, not Shinku.

Nightbat®

2006-06-06, 14:51

No. It's the fake doll Barasuishou that killed Suigintou, not Shinku.

I'm talking season 1 -> 2

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 15:04

Well there are many explanations.

First when Shinku beat Hina and later Gin. She may have control of their Roza Mystica, she may have relinquished her control of Suigintou's RM when she was continually being haunted by nightmares.

For Hina, Shinku may be lying when she said that Father cut off the link. To spare Hina from actually getting killed, Shinku cut off the link herself and took in her Roza Mystica.

So Souseiseki and Hina lost because a RM already took in their Roza Mystica.

Nightbat®

2006-06-06, 15:34

For Hina, Shinku may be lying when she said that Father cut off the link. To spare Hina from actually getting killed, Shinku cut off the link herself and took in her Roza Mystica.

Well, if that were true, Shinku -after being informed there was another way to achieve
Alice- would have no reason to keep Hina's Ro/My

if ya ask me, the little victorian brat got scared and cashed in hina's check for
some well needed firepower:D

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 15:46

Well, if that were true, Shinku -after being informed there was another way to achieve
Alice- would have no reason to keep Hina's Ro/My

if ya ask me, the little victorian brat got scared and cashed in hina's check for
some well needed firepower:D

That was before Traumend ended. Shinku didn't know that there was another way to be Alice that time.

NezoR

2006-06-06, 15:54

I'm talking season 1 -> 2

Hmmm??? I may be wrong, but maybe the medium was the factor. When Hinaichigo and Shinku fought in season 1, both had mediums. When Souseiseki and Suigintou fought in season 2, both had mediums, but when Suigintou and Shinku fought in season 1, only Shinku had a medium. Maybe for the Alice game to work a medium has to be involved.

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 16:04

Hmmm??? I may be wrong, but maybe the medium was the factor. When Hinaichigo and Shinku fought in season 1, both had mediums. When Souseiseki and Suigintou fought in season 2, both had mediums, but when Suigintou and Shinku fought in season 1, only Shinku had a medium. Maybe for the Alice game to work a medium has to be involved.

I don't think so. I think a Medium is just an optional thing. Suigintou's "medium" was her determination to be Alice. So I don't think mediums are involved for the Alice Game.

Nightbat®

2006-06-06, 16:06

Hmmm??? I may be wrong, but maybe the medium was the factor. When Hinaichigo and Shinku fought in season 1, both had mediums. When Souseiseki and Suigintou fought in season 2, both had mediums, but when Suigintou and Shinku fought in season 1, only Shinku had a medium. Maybe for the Alice game to work a medium has to be involved.

good point, 1 problem

In S1 Gin would have never been able to become alice since she didn't have a medium
(and was Gin is obsessed with becoming Alice)

NezoR

2006-06-06, 16:32

Explanation 1

Probably the medium is optional, but in that case for the Alice game to work, both dolls would have to have a medium, or both would have to be without a medium. For example, if Suigintou and Shinku fought and both didn't have mediums the Alice game would work. If both had mediums the Alice game would also work, but if only one had a medium, that would lead to an unfair fight and the Alice game wouldn't work.

The Alice game is what it is, a game, and as we all know games have rules. Letting one doll with a medium get a RM from a defeated doll without a medium would be unfair (it's like letting a 100m runner win an olympic gold even though he took steroids).

Explanation 2

Why would the medium be optional in the first place? The phenomenon of the medium "powering up" the dolls exists for a reason. Maybe "Rozen" knew that some of the dolls were naturally more powerful than the others, and to be fair, levelled the playingfield be giving the dolls the ability to chose mediums. Under this scenario a medium has to be present for the Alice game to work.

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 16:47

I think the dolls are not truly getting powered up by mediums but by sharing the power because Shinku said this while facing Hina Ichigo.

"Without a medium, I can only fight using half my regular strength,"

I guess a Medium's like a power bank, you have to deposit some before you take some out. Then the medium's own power is like the annual interest, it adds with the doll's power making the doll stronger when she uses the power of the medium.

NezoR

2006-06-06, 16:53

Nightbat®

2006-06-06, 17:00

Even so, it would be unfair to let Shinku get Suigintou's RM if Shinku has a medium and Suigintou doesn't, dont you think? IMO, Explanation 1 is the more likely one to be true.

But as said, then Gin would require a medium to become Alice
and she was hellbent on becoming Alice
Then her first priority would be to find a suitable medium, and stay out of battles
before she had one

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 17:11

NezoR

2006-06-06, 17:16

But as said, then Gin would require a medium to become Alice
and she was hellbent on becoming Alice
Then her first priority would be to find a suitable medium, and stay out of battles
before she had one

It would be impossible for Suigintou to become Alice in Season 1 because there is no way she could defeat Shinku (even Shinku stated this). Shinku had a medium giving her an unfair advantage (therefore the Alice game wouldn't work). Suigintou kept on fighting because she was blinded by her passion to become Alice (something she couldn't achieve when most of the other dolls had mediums). In season 2 she came to her senses and realized that for her to become Alice she needed a medium, hence Megu.

Nightbat®

2006-06-06, 17:50

It would be impossible for Suigintou to become Alice in Season 1 because there is no way she could defeat Shinku (even Shinku stated this). Shinku had a medium giving her an unfair advantage (therefore the Alice game wouldn't work). Suigintou kept on fighting because she was blinded by her passion to become Alice (something she couldn't achieve when most of the other dolls had mediums). In season 2 she came to her senses and realized that for her to become Alice she needed a medium, hence Megu.

actually iirc Gin said she didn't need a medium, she this this only because she was weak
(so would I be if I died)

NezoR

2006-06-06, 18:35

I AM VERY VERY ANGRY!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I've heard rumors that the director of Rozen Maiden is making a new Rozen Maiden-ish anime that's to be released later this year. So he will not make a third season of RM and instead start work on a similar project?? That sucks!!! I need season-3 of Rozen Maiden. :frustrated:

BTW, the name of this new anime directed by Mamoru Matsuo is Red Garden. :mad:

actually iirc Gin said she didn't need a medium, she this this only because she was weak
(so would I be if I died)

Gin's just being arrogant. She needs a medium to become Alice.

Mangaka-chan

2006-06-06, 18:46

I AM VERY VERY ANGRY!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I've heard rumors that the director of Rozen Maiden is making a new Rozen Maiden-ish anime that's to be released later this year. So he will not make a third season of RM and instead start work on a similar project?? That sucks!!! I need season-3 of Rozen Maiden. :frustrated:

A Rozen Maiden-ish anime? What does that mean? :confused: Well, if the director is leaving, they can still get someone else to direct if there is ever a season 3. Things might be a bit different but I think I'll settle for being able to watch a third season.

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 19:08

What do you mean by Rozen Maiden typish? Another doll anime that does not feature Shinku and the gang?

NezoR

2006-06-06, 19:18

What do you mean by Rozen Maiden typish? Another doll anime that does not feature Shinku and the gang?

Yes, or, Red Garden could be something like Chobits (which is similar to Rozen Maiden). It still sucks because Mamoru Matsuo is a very good director. I would like to see him do Rozen Maiden 3.

abang brother

2006-06-06, 19:56

WTF?? I DONT GET TO SEE HINA ANYMORE?? SHYT IT DAMM IT ..` I DEMAND FOR SEASON 3!!

Btw, Nightbat® .. Maybe Suigintou Roza Mystica werent been taken or maybe it have been taken but Rozen took it back and fix up Suigintou so that she will not be absent in Alice Game.

Every doll need a medium, if one of the doll has a medium and the other doesnt has medium .. so it is very unfair..

RM-FAN

2006-06-06, 19:57

I AM VERY VERY ANGRY!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I've heard rumors that the director of Rozen Maiden is making a new Rozen Maiden-ish anime that's to be released later this year. So he will not make a third season of RM and instead start work on a similar project?? That sucks!!! I need season-3 of Rozen Maiden. :frustrated:

BTW, the name of this new anime directed by Mamoru Matsuo is Red Garden. :mad:

WTF?

what you mean with "ISH?, i dont understeand

mmm, i can imagine that will be a serie with differen characterst? in other words...a new generation of Rozen Maiden Dolls...right?:heh:

abang brother

2006-06-06, 20:04

WTF?

what you mean with "ISH?, i dont understeand

mmm, i can imagine that will be a serie with differen characterst? in other words...a new generation of Rozen Maiden Dolls...right?:heh:

You like it?? No fair! Kirakisou jsut appeared and now... another version RM is born ?

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 20:14

Yeah, let's add in the "Enju Maidens"!!

RM-FAN

2006-06-06, 20:18

"Enju Maidens"!!

i suspech that in that will be finish this rumor

:heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh:

BTW blitz 1/2, ¿what you think of my new signature?

blitz1/2

2006-06-06, 20:22

i suspech that in that will be finish this rumor

:heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh:

BTW Blitz, ¿what you think of my new signature?

Nice signature, it has all the true RM dolls. But the most important thing is that it has Kirakishou on it!

abang brother

2006-06-06, 21:00

Nice sig RM..

If their gonna make new RM, hope make cooler than Gin and cuter than hinaichigo

Alu

2006-06-06, 22:08

Warning :
This is probably the bigest post ever created on A.Suki boards ^^

Well.., I was looking back through the pages to see if I could find the posts in which we discussed Jun beeing Rozen or not.., but after a while or searching from pages 4x to 8x I just gave up and decided to make a new one :p

You give nice theories Nezor.., but I am afraid that I have to dissagree with most.., the aspects you imply just tend to over-complicate everything..

First its very safe to assume that Jun is NOT Rozen / Father; he is however.. a Maestro.., and the reasons for this is as follows :

Jun had always the hand for crafting work, tailoring in particular.., but he had never heard of the Rozen Maiden, Rozen or was even interested in creating dolls to begin with.
Only upon the arrival of Shinku and all the events that after developed did he begin to become interested in these fields of crafting; partialy due to the fact that he wanted to know how the Rozen Maiden where created.
Thus concluding he did not have any information regarding them whatsoever.

Upon reading this I am sure you are thinking... "wait.., Rozen himself could be dorment inside Jun, just waiting for the time to awaken and become at one with his full potential" - and it would be a possibly.., altough I again will have to dissagree.

Jun himself has certanly "hidden" abilities.., which through the course of the 2 seasons we have seen them start to "awaken".., these are the abilities which make him a Maestro.., an exceptional person with a certain Gift.

Beeing a Maestro means you can, much like Gin and Shinku said in season 1 : beeing able to repair that which is broken and be able to bring back the soul that was lost; amonsgt other aspects...

In the end A Maestro is someone who is able to master the exceptional fields in "creating" a new life (doll); this meaning... Enju is also a Maestro..; and in fact.. he is the best example of what one realy is.

There is also a part in an episode in Season 2, where Laplace first introduces Jun to Enju.., and while Jun is awaiting his approval to assist him in crafting his dolls.., Enju turns Jun's face and passes his finger in a straight invisible line.
After this he concludes that Jun is "whorty" to assist.

This is without a doubt a evidence that there is a mark on each person that determines if they have exceptional abilities to become a Maestro, which such was the case of Jun.

In fact what Enju said after to him regarding his Hair might be another aspect.., but I belive this one was by himself.., since we do see Enju using his hair Shorter then Rozen..

Anyway.., giving all of this it is clear that Jun is in fact a Maestro who has not compleatly developed his abilities.., a Maestro because.., like himself and Enju who was in fact Rozen's pupil.. there had been many before him.

But now you'll probably say.., "why call him a Maestro when he could be A Rozen, as in the speculation you posted.., Rozen could be defined as a title and not Father himself."

- Well.. its very simple.., Rozen has to be ONLY one person and that alone has to be Father.., for the title of those who are gifted.. those are refered to as A Maestro.., which like I previously posted share all the aspects in crafting much like Rozen does.

Enju who is a Maestro refered to Rozen as beeing his Master.., which means.. Rozen himself is ALSO a Maestro.., but one gifted of extraordinary skills which was able to surpass all others, thus creating such unique dolls..

Altough.., yet failing to acomplish Alice, no other Maestro was able to even equal Rozen's work. Which was in fact the entire reason behind Enju's motives that we saw in season 2

And once more you'll say.. "but Gin said that ONLY FATHER could repair the Rozen Maiden"

- Well.. at that moment we did not have the information that we where given in season 2; information this regarding more aspects about Father and what A Maestro realy is.

As I previously stated.., Rozen/Father himself is a Maestro.., but even among these gifted people.. he is exceptional.
So naturaly I belive that when Gin said that phrase.. she ment it as in.., no other Maestro should be able to repair a Rozen Maiden except for Rozen himself.., because no other had equaled his work, thus.. no other would be able to repair them.

Jun however.. despite not having fully "awakened" yet as a Maestro clearly, much like Rozen shares a Special bond to the dolls and has aswell an Exceptional power inside of him.., which again.. much like Rozen.., makes him stand above all other Maestro's.

Thus.. beeing the only person apart from Rozen who was able to repair a Rozen Maiden; which is why Gin then says.. "has a person with this talen finaly arrived?"

Compleatly making Jun a unique Maestro.., one which once his skills are compleatly developed.., may be the Only one who can follow Rozen's work; after all.. Enju came pretty close to that.., hence he beeing of a more exceptional class aswell..., but his lack of compassion and dis-regard for any other dolls but his own.. ended up beeing his undoing in a way.

I'd say one needs to be of pure heart in order to acomplish what Rozen did.., Enju despite his love for his creations had the wish to overcome his master above anything.. and that was sort of a seed which ended up corrupting his creation.
Jun clearly though is of pure heart..., for even in the begining he did not wish any of the dolls to even fight in the Alice game, which in a way shares the same vision as Rozen did, in which he loves all the dolls.. despite none of them beeing Alice yet.

And now on a last aspect..

The part which you (Nezor) say made you seem that Jun was Rozen after all the dolls where repaired.., this I belive was because... Jun appeared in the same place as Rozen was after he spoke to Shinku ?

Well I can certanly see how that would rise "some" doubts.. but clearly it is not enough to even sustain the possibility of both beeing one and the same.

What I can say is.., there is not much we know regarding ALL the rules of the N-Field.., aspects on how Laplace or Rozen or Enju have been able to master them are unknown to us.., so in this part I can mostely speculate that once a Maestro obtains a certain amount of skill.. he is able to control more exceptional aspects such as the N-Field, which others cannot.

It is certain to us that Rozen walks through the inifity which is the N-Field, much like you said.. appearing in diferent times under diferent faces.., which means he probably has been the master of many Maestro's through many times, and has also kept guard of his dolls, as to see them develop and hopefully one day.. meet Alice.

Altough despite knowing this Shinku herself (prior to the Enju encounter) that she had never again, since her creation met with Father, nor had any of the dolls.., for as she also later says.. they all only share the same memories of him..; of a beeing involved with warm and tender light.

So it is clear to me that Rozen on regarding his Dolls.., after creating them he just became more of an Observer.., always seeing the steps they would take as in to reach Alice.., and always.. never interfearing. Until it was necessary.

After all the dolls had been defeated by Bara, and her body not beeing able to contain the Rosa Mysticae.., Jun cried out for Rozen.. he cried out because he could no longer stand the fact that despite he at the moment could not have done anything to save them.., there was someone who could have but did not..

Thus.. he asks him if he ever loved his dolls.. why wouldn't he have stopped the deception that toke place.., why would not he respond to they're love.. after all they always have was love him above anyone else.

And in that moment Rozen then appears before Jun and Shinku..

So if Jun had been Rozen.., even dorment.., all of the aspects that toke place would have been enough to make him "awake" and having saved all of his dolls.
For he realy would not have allowed himself to stand by and watch all the deception that Enju lead them to fight for.

The only reason that we then see Jun standing before Shinku after Rozen spoke is that.., well we are not certain of what happened in the N-Field..; when Rozen appeared on scene his Light aure involved that entire N-Field, and we are then jumped on to another where we see Rozen finishing repairing all of the dolls.

Its only natural that Jun was "somehow" present during the end before Rozen left.., thus he had heard what Rozen said, and when presented the chance to go near Shinku.., he immediatly did :)

Thus beeing the conclusion to the scene you saw.
And I belive.., aswell to all the speculations you made :p

-

On yet ANOTHER question now.. :)

The fact that Gin's Rosa Mystica was still in her body even after she was defeated by Shinku in season 1..

Well.. again you (Nezor) come up with some wild speculations.., altough there is the remote chance for any of them.., I still belive you are just over-complicating things :p
But you give good foundations for a discussion so.., I'll lay down what I belive is the best conclusion regarding this aspect aswell.

Shinku came to learn the True reasons that drived Gin to take part so fearously in the Alice Game at the end of season 1..., just after she defeated her.. she said it herself : "Her love for father was the pure, she in fact loved father more then any of us.., but that became a dangerous weapon."

And it was these tragic reasons, and because they where so tragic.., that Shinku's conscience could not support the fact of what she in the end had done.

Shinku had came to the conclusion that she had been overlooking the casualty aspect in battle.., and when she then came across someone who shared a much bigger love and devotion for the same Ideal she did..., and she was forced to take her life in order to continue her path..., the tragedy of it all finaly "hitted" her.. and she could not bare with what she had done.
Specialy because the background of Gin's past.. and that she even above it all still loved Father.. came to emphasise how tragic her end became.

Thus.. this was, and she even herself says.. the reason why she then did not take Gin's Rosa Mystica even after Gin was defeated.

This means, that much like it was demonstrated when Shinku fought Hina.., despite losing in the Alice Game.. does not mean a Rozen Maiden immediatly hands over her Rosa Mystica to the other.

What I belived happened here regarding Gin and Hina was..., if a dolls body is dealt with a certain amount of damage to reaches the point where it just.. "gives in".. the Rosa Mystica is expeld out (as we saw for example when Bara defeated Sui)

In Gin's case.., it is very possible that her Rosa Mystica "came out" after her body "gaved in" in her defeat by Shinku..., but Shinku did not chose to acept Gin's Rosa Mystica and simply returned it to her broken body.

As we saw in many scenes, a Rosa Mystica is not immediatly absorved by the doll that defeated the other.., it hovers in mid air.., so.. the doll that reaches to it first is the one who will take it into her body.
Examples : Sou's Rosa Mystica (Sui and Gin flew to see who would capture it faster, Sui's Rosa Mystica (Bara defeated her, but Kana was closer and she grabbed it before Bara could).

Also.., we can conclude that a Rosa Mystica can be returned to the body in which she came out.., for that reason alone Sui demaned that Gin RETURNED Sou's Rosa Mystica to her body.., and even flew towards it in hope to catch it first.
Thus comproving what I said as to Shinku returning Gin's Rosa Mystica to her body in the end.

For Hina.., at the time Shinku defeated Hina.., she was not aware of the phiscological aspects as to when she defeated Gin..; this is due to the fact that Hina did not share the same devotion that neither she or Gin did..., Hina was at the time very immature and only cared for other irrelevant things rather then to become Alice in priority.

Thus clearly having taken Hina's Rosa Mystica at the moment when she defeated her would not have caused the same impact that it did when Shinku defeated Gin..

Even so though.., I belive Shinku in the end always pushed away the fact to see any of her sisters fall.., thus unless given no option.. she would have never chosen to part with any of them; and given that Hina no longer became a treath.., she chose not to take her Rosa Mystica in that moment and decided to keep Hina alive by transfering power from Jun to her, as we all know..

In the end.., what made Gin's Rosa Mystica not return to Shinku was that since at the time she defeated Gin, no other Rosa Mystica had been "taken".., if she willingly returned Gin's to her broken body, it would be as in nullifing the entire process; she could then no longer have any claim to it.
And as we all know, Rozen then repaired Gin's body.., making her compleatly whole again.

What happened to Hina was.., the process in what she was defeated was compleatly diferent.., during the battle Hina was forced to break her seal with her medium, which like Shinku said.. would have the same impact of losing the Alice Game.

Thus from that moment Hina had lost claim to her Rosa Mystica.
Shinku who was the one which in a way defeated her.. had an un-intentional claim for this..; if she had not chosen to transfer energy from Jun to her.., Hina's Rosa Mystica would have been transfered to Shinku's body either Shinku had willingly acepted it or not.
Unlike what happened with Gin's as I previously mencioned.

So.., since the moment when Sou's was claimed by another..., the process regarding Hina's required to be compleated.., for as we saw.., Hina started to stop without any force of will by Shinku.

Hence.. is the conclusion I take on behalf of this subject :)

I hope all of this answered some doubts / questions.., I thought very carefully over the entire aspects.., and as not to over-complicate things.., I went to search for the more simple answers I could find.

All and all it didn't save me from writting such a huge post :p
But well.. it just goes to show how even the simplest aspects in Rozen Maiden have such a detailed background to them.

In the end.. my thanks to Nezor for his speculations.., altough I belive with this I rendered them all rong, it provided good working ground for my points of view :)

Sorry for any mistakes in spelling, and..
Thanks for reading :p
( If you had the pacience to ^^ )

NezoR

2006-06-06, 23:14

I haven't read everything in your post, but one thing you say really bothers me.

(1) How can you say that Enju is a Maestro? Suigintou saw Jun repair a Rozen Maiden and then said, "unless a maestro appears, no one except Father should be able to do that". I've never seen Enju repair a Rozen Maiden.

(2) Again, if Rozen is a single person, why would he change his appearance? It doesn't make any sense to me. "Rozen" sounds to me like a title that goes to people who can create living dolls (remember I dont believe that Barasuishou is alive). Think of it this way. No one person monopolizes a skill. There is not one engineer, there are many. There is not one doctor, there are many. There is not one artist, there are many. There is not one Rozen, there are many.

I'll get to the rest of your post at another time.

Alu

2006-06-06, 23:33

(1) How can you say that Enju is a Maestro? Suigintou saw Jun repair a Rozen Maiden and then said, "unless a maestro appears, no one except Father should be able to do that". I've never seen Enju repair a Rozen Maiden.

A Maestro is someone that..., if you had read my post carefully enough you would find that I wrotte :

" In the end A Maestro is someone who is able to master the exceptional fields in "creating" a new life (doll) "

In other words... a Gifted person which has the proficiency to master exceptional abilities on designated aspects; such as creating, giving life, repairing and even restoring Lost Souls in what relates to dolls.

The Rozen Maiden are a unique case.., they where created by lets say the "Ultimate Maestro", the one who holds the strongest Gift, the strongest proficiency, the strongest skills of them all.
Maestro this.., having been Rozen himself.

Jun however has shown us that he might have such a strong Gift, etc. as Rozen did.., thus beeing the reason why he was able to do the things he did.
And why Gin also said "has finaly someone like this appeared?" - As in.. a Maestro Gifted of the same Level of Proficiency, skill, etc. As Rozen.

Enju clearly also showed us that he had a superior Proficiency & skills within and then most Maestro's..., beeing him the only person to acomplish a work (Bara) that could rival in terms of acomplishment to that of Rozen's.
Thus making him a Maestro aswell.., and he was in fact.. Rozen's pupil.

(2) Again, if Rozen is a single person, why would he change his appearance? It doesn't make any sense to me. "Rozen" sounds to me like a title that goes to people who can create living dolls (remember I dont believe that Barasuishou is alive). Think of it this way. No one person monopolizes a skill. There is not one engineer, there are many. There is not one doctor, there are many. There is not one artist, there are many. There is not one Rozen, there are many.

Again.. please read my post better..

Rozen changes his apperance because as I said.., he chose to act as an Observer and did not wish to interfear in the development of his dolls.

Rozen belives that throught they're development one of them will eventualy reach Alice, altough they have to find out the best way for this on they're own.

Its best for him not to interfear and let them develop they're own carecteristics, personality, and ideals.., for this is the only way that they will obtain the "Purity" that is required in order to reach "Alice".

In the second aspect.., which relates to "there is not one Rozen"..., just see the responce I gaved to your first quote..
Simply substitute the "Maestro" for your "Rozen" and you the Correct speculation.

Rozen is indeed Rozen, Father..., he himself is a Maestro.., and like you said.., there is not "ONE" Maestro.., there are many..; Jun is aswell.. and like I explained previously.. so is Enju.

Thinking the way you where doing is just plain absurd.. and I belive all agree with me here..
And it was partialy why I said several times.., you tend to over-complicate things a bit.. :p

Edit:

And Nezor.. please read my post CAREFULLY before posting anymore questions to which I had then previously answered.., just like the ones in your last post.
Its not easy to writte everything down again.. so please.. I know its a long post and it's hard.., but.. bare with me, have pacience, and read things through first before posting things which make me basicaly quote what I just had previously written. ^^

NezoR

2006-06-06, 23:56

Alu

2006-06-07, 00:25

1) Again, have you seen Enju repair a Rozen Maiden? Unless you show me proof then, in my mind, Enju is not a Maestro. And for the last time, I see no evidence that Barasuishou is alive. She seems like a mere robot that can only copy other peoples behaviour.

(2) Maestro is the "skill", Rozen is the "title". Jun has the skill to be a Rozen because he demonstrates that he can repair a Rozen Maiden. There is NO evidence that Enju is a Maestro.

Oh for heaven's sake.., stop complicating this simple thing so much..
If you can't get this then I'll just give up... (I can only take "so much" of writting the same thing over and over again ^^)

Maestro = title given to "exceptional" people who are Gifted with an extraordinary proficiency & skills upon creating & crafting aspects.
Examples : Rozen, Jun, Enju.

ANY Maestro can repair a Rozen Maiden.., PROVIDED.. they have the same Level of proficiency & skills as Rozen himself.

Rozen = A Maestro GIFTED of Extraordinary Skills even within those who are a Maestro.
He had acomplished what no other had in terms of creation.., he was able to LITERALLY bring life to his dolls; thus because of this.. Gin thought he was the only one who could repair them.

Other Maestro's = While more gifted of exceptional skills then normal humans in crafting.., when it comes to "creating".., they can only create the Soul's of each work.., not Literally bring them to life.

Enju = A Maestro also GIFTED of Exraordinary Skills & Proficiency, much like Rozen, AND because he was teached by him.., he was the only one that APART from Rozen was able to Literally bring Life to his creation.

Bara altough not beeing a Rozen Maiden, she shares compleatly ALL the same aspects as one.., for having learned from Rozen himself.., Enju was able to create and acomplish a Work that could rival with that of what his master.

I supose having he such a High level of skill.., much like Jun and Rozen himself.., he could repair a Rozen Maiden..., but allas his heart as I mencioned in MY POST.. lacked purity in a number of aspects.., so in a way... he himself became innerly corrupted.

Jun = Possibly the Only Maestro with Both the Purity and Extraordinary Skills to match those of Rozen; altough they have not been compleatly awaken...
When Gin stated that "only father could repair them".., it was what she Thought AT THAT moment.., upon then seeing Jun.., she then asked "has someone like this finaly arrived"
As in.., and again.. I am repeating myself from my previous post..
Jun beeing the only Maestro with Strong enough of a Gift that he could match that of Rozen's.. enabling him to repair EVEN a Rozen Maiden.

So.. for the last time..

Your getting it rong..., Maestro is the title.. - Beeing a Maestro doesn't mean you can Only be one if you are able to repair a Rozen Maiden...

Rozen, Jun and Enju (possibily) could / can because they even within the Maestro group are Gifted of Exceptional Skills.

Rozen is Father's name..

Now.., I can't be more clear then this, I'm pretty sure I have the entire community here backing me up on this so.., if even so you claim that your way is the "correct" one..
I will not try to pursade you any further...

Ignorance is a bliss in way.. :p

NezoR

2006-06-07, 00:42

Were going in cirles here. :heh:

Junk said it herself, "How can JUN fix a part that was broken? Unless a Maestro appears, no one except Father should be able to do that".

Why do you assume that Enju can repair a Rozen Maiden when he clearly doesn't demonstrate the ability to do so? Enju did nothing special. He just created a lifeless soul-less doll that crumbled in the end. Jun did something special, he repaired a living Rozen Maiden.

BTW, I find it funny that you say that I am trying to overcomplicate things when my posts are clearly shorter than yours. :p All I am saying is that.....

(1) There may be many other Rozens and Rozen Maidens.

(2) Jun has shown that he has the capacity/skill to become a Rozen.

(3) Rozen is a title not a name.

(4) There are other ways for Rozen Maidens to become Alice. This hints that there is more than one "Rozen".

Bah, I'm done for tonight.

Alu

2006-06-07, 00:53

Were going in cirles here. :heh:

Junk said it herself, "How can JUN fix a part that was broken? Unless a Maestro appears, no one except Father should be able to do that".

Because she AT that moment thought that Only Father was able to do so..., that was NOT a afirmation on behalf of her.., that is where your flaw is..

She up until then only knew that..., and by saying after "has finaly a person like this arrived" she is acklonoging that finaly there is Another Maestro Gifted of the same Skill to repair a Rozen Maiden; as when she refers to Jun.

(1) There may be many other Rozens and Rozen Maidens.
Maestro's Who have a High enough level of Skill & Proficiency equal to Rozen's to craft, create and bring life to they're creations; NOT "Rozens"

(2) Jun has shown that he has the capacity/skill to become a Rozen.
NOT Rozen; A Maestro Gifted of both the Purity & Skills equal to Rozen's himself.

(3) Rozen is a title not a name.
Maestro is a title, Rozen is Father's name.

(4) There are other ways for Rozen Maidens to become Alice. This hints that there is more than one "Rozen".
More then one MAESTRO!, and on the other ways to become Alice... NOTHING is given to us as a hint..

Bah, I'm done for tonight.
I second that.., this is the last post I waste on you on this aspect..., three times you made me writte down the same things.. and yet.. you still keep supporting your speculations..
So.. I am giving up.

Mincemaker

2006-06-07, 01:02

Great, Alu. You had presented all the arguments I wanted to present myself, with in depth argument no less. Kudos to you.

RM-FAN

2006-06-07, 01:32

hey, ¿can show the link of the rumor of the new serie of Rozen (Enju) Maiden?

abang brother

2006-06-07, 01:39

Alu you won!! Respect!!

NezoR

2006-06-07, 01:45

Alu

2006-06-07, 02:23

And here we come full circle again. :heh: One more time, but this time I'll try to make it as clear as possible. Maestro is to Race car driver as Rozen is to Formula One Champion. Race car driver = skill, Fomula One Champion = title. Maestro = skill, Rozen = title. Jun is a Maestro, but he is not yet a Rozen, but he demonstrates, unlike Enju, that he can become a Rozen.

Your the one who keeps going in full circles.., for you clearly are iluding yourself..

I am not going to bother with this aspect anymore..., what you keep saying regarding this is rong and that is a fact.

So I have nothing more to say on it..., if you wish to change your mind.., read my main post and the 3 extra you made me post for the correct way..

Enju is not even a Maestro and therefore couldn't create a Rozen Maiden. Think about it, Enju tried to make a Rozen Maiden but failed.

Enju did not try and create a Rozen Maiden..., he tried to create HIS OWN doll, a doll this that Would be able to surpass the one's created by Rozen in All the aspects.

(1) Enju hasn't shown the ability to create living dolls. Barasuishou is a fake Rozen Maiden i.e. a doll that appears to be alive but she is not.

How on earth can you say this ?
Bara is very much alive.., you have to be able distinguish a personality before you can make that statement.., but clearly analysing things isn't your strongest aspect so.. ^^

Bara has a very self-closed personality, almost even intriguing.., for most of the times she just limits to repeat other's words.., this doesn't make her "dead".

In fact.. she just does not openly show many emotions.., its just how she is; every doll has a diferent personality.. and this is hers.

Also.., there are moments in which we can see more aspects of her personality.., so its not all "no-emotions" everytime.
Bara clearly orchestrated the events in season 2, on behalf of her Father..., she was never the less in charge of triggering the events..., and when these went according to plan.. in many scenes you can see that she is actualy content with herself.

Another hint.., on the last episode of Traumend.., Upon stumbling into Jun.. she asked him where Shinku was.., Jun then replyed asking her to stop this fight.
What happens then is a clear demonstration of Anger on behalf of her.., she shoots all of Quarzt crystals at him shouting again "WHERE'S SHINKU"

And another.., after having come victorious against all the Rozen Maiden.., you could clearly see a compleatly diferent Bara when she was with her Father (Enju), a love-caring Bara who's only interest was to make her Father happy..

Now please tell me that even after all of this you say that Bara is not alive.. I dare you..

(2) Enju hasn't shown the ability to repair living dolls. He couldn't even stop Barasuishou from crumbling.

This is such a bad excuse to support your speculations..., I even pondered if I should answer it or not..

The destruction level of Bara was far too great for even Rozen or ANY Maestro.., no matter how Skilled he was to repair..

Her body was literaly compleatly crumbelling.., her porcelain was reverting to clay and all of herself was falling apart.

Enju himself said in the begining before this happen.., "I will repair your arm".., so THERE.. he could & had the skills to repair her.., just.. not after the level of destruction she then endured.

Anyway.., I am letting someone else take the wheel now.., I'm sure Mince, Lost, Physics etc. also can support my points of view here.

Mincemaker

2006-06-07, 02:54

And here we come full circle again. :heh: One more time, but this time I'll try to make it as clear as possible. Maestro is to Race car driver as Rozen is to Formula One Champion. Race car driver = skill, Fomula One Champion = title. Maestro = skill, Rozen = title. Jun is a Maestro, but he is not yet a Rozen, but he demonstrates, unlike Enju, that he can become a Rozen.

Enju is not even a Maestro and therefore couldn't create a Rozen Maiden. Think about it, Enju tried to make a Rozen Maiden but failed.

(1) Enju hasn't shown the ability to create living dolls. Barasuishou is a fake Rozen Maiden i.e. a doll that appears to be alive but she is not.

(2) Enju hasn't shown the ability to repair living dolls. He couldn't even stop Barasuishou from crumbling.

The Rozen Maidens are all alive unlike Brarasuishou, so I dont know how you came to the conclusion that Enju is a Maestro. We seem to have different interpretations of what the term Maestro means. You see Rozen as a person, I see Rozen as a Title. No problem, let's agree to disagree. :D BTW, the fact that all the dolls (except Suiseiseki and Souseiseki) look so different supports my theory that they were made by different people i.e. different Rozens. ;)

:mad: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3561212&postcount=585 :mad:

Scroll down to the last post.

Enju just couldn't make the Roza Mystica, which is why Bara isn't a Rozen Maiden. The Roza Mystica is what sets a Rozen Maiden apart from any other doll. Barasuishou is pretty much a living doll, just that she lacks the Roza Mystica, hence she is not a Rozen Maiden.

And you said Enju couldn't stop Bara from crumbling. And I will say Jun couldn't stop Suigintou ripping away Shinku's arm. Jun is a Maestro, definitely (even Shinku said his fingers are 'magical'). And Enju could fix Barasuishou. He even promised her that, and all he probably needs is to get Bara's arm back and she will be as good as new. Thing is, you CANNOT repair a crumbled doll. I doubt even a Maestro of the same skill as Rozen can fix a doll who had crumbled to dust. Most he can do is remake the doll.

And Suigintou doesn't count. She didn't crumble.

And finally, Maestro IS a title. Check the dictionary. A Maestro is a person who masters a particular field of art. Jun mastered sewing. Rozen and Enju mastered dollmaking. So by right, the three are Maestros.

Don't believe? Check this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maestro

And it is already cleared that Rozen is a person. And it is clear all 7 Maidens were made by Rozen himself, a man, yours truly. You said we never see Rozen making all the dolls, but if you do watch the first episode of Traumend, we see Suigintou, Souseiseki and Suiseiseki watching Rozen making Shinku. May we remind you Shinku is the FIFTH Rozen Maiden? And where is Kanaria? The directors don't want to spoil it for us so they didn't show Kanaria watching as well.

And Enju isn't making a Rozen Maiden. He is creating his own masterpiece (care to say that Bara is an Enju Maiden?). The Rozen Maiden is Rozen's masterpieces, and their quality is undeniable. No other doll could surpass their quality. Enju wanted to creat a doll BETTER than the Rozen Maiden and so, he made Barasuishou. And having Barasuishou defeat all the Rozen Maiden would make her superior to the Rozen Maiden, or so Enju was told by Laplace (cocks Blunderbuss).

And what makes a doll a living doll? The doll has the ability to move, has their own personality and can THINK by their ownself. Barasuishou displayed all three, so she is definitely alive.

Try and present your arguments over and over again and we will be able to counter it again and again as well, with far more in-depth arguments.

NezoR

2006-06-07, 03:43

Enju just couldn't make the Roza Mystica, which is why Bara isn't a Rozen Maiden. The Roza Mystica is what sets a Rozen Maiden apart from any other doll. Barasuishou is pretty much a living doll, just that she lacks the Roza Mystica, hence she is not a Rozen Maiden.

Exactly. You just proved my point that Barasuishou isn't truly alive. She is more like a machine that mimics human emotions. The Rosa Mystica is essentially the Rozen Maiden's souls. Note that when a Rozen Maiden loses her Rosa Mystica, she cannot move or talk.

And you said Enju couldn't stop Bara from crumbling. And I will say Jun couldn't stop Suigintou ripping away Shinku's arm. Jun is a Maestro, definitely (even Shinku said his fingers are 'magical'). And Enju could fix Barasuishou. He even promised her that, and all he probably needs is to get Bara's arm back and she will be as good as new. Thing is, you CANNOT repair a crumbled doll. I doubt even a Maestro of the same skill as Rozen can fix a doll who had crumbled to dust. Most he can do is remake the doll.

And Suigintou doesn't count. She didn't crumble.

Enju cannot repair a crumbling doll, but "Rozen" could repair a doll that was burned to a cinder. Suigintou was on fire, remember? As I've said before, Enju did nothing special.

And finally, Maestro IS a title. Check the dictionary. A Maestro is a person who masters a particular field of art. Jun mastered sewing. Rozen and Enju mastered dollmaking. So by right, the three are Maestros.

Don't believe? Check this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maestro

It can be used in the context of a "skill", just like "race car driver".

And it is already cleared that Rozen is a person. And it is clear all 7 Maidens were made by Rozen himself, a man, yours truly.

There is no proof of this in the anime, sorry.

You said we never see Rozen making all the dolls, but if you do watch the first episode of Traumend, we see Suigintou, Souseiseki and Suiseiseki watching Rozen making Shinku. May we remind you Shinku is the FIFTH Rozen Maiden? And where is Kanaria? The directors don't want to spoil it for us so they didn't show Kanaria watching as well.

Shinku is the fifth doll created by a Rozen. That guy at the beginning created Shinku, but you dont have any proof that he created any of the other dolls.

And Enju isn't making a Rozen Maiden. He is creating his own masterpiece (care to say that Bara is an Enju Maiden?). The Rozen Maiden is Rozen's masterpieces, and their quality is undeniable. No other doll could surpass their quality. Enju wanted to creat a doll BETTER than the Rozen Maiden and so, he made Barasuishou. And having Barasuishou defeat all the Rozen Maiden would make her superior to the Rozen Maiden, or so Enju was told by Laplace (cocks Blunderbuss).

Then why did Enju say, "watch the instant where the greatest doll is born" at 14:22 of RMT episode 12? He obviously wanted to create a Rozen Maiden that would defeat all the other dolls and become "his" Alice.... but he failed.

And what makes a doll a living doll? The doll has the ability to move, has their own personality and can THINK by their ownself. Barasuishou displayed all three, so she is definitely alive.

Not IMO. Barasuishou seems devoid of a personality and is just mimicking the other dolls.

abang brother

2006-06-07, 03:55

Enju cannot repair a crumbling doll, but "Rozen" could repair a doll that was burned to a cinder. Suigintou was on fire, remember? As I've said before, Enju did nothing special.

Shinku is the fifth doll created by a Rozen. That guy at the beginning created Shinku, but you dont have any proof that he created any of the other dolls.

Added: Enju hasn't shown the ability to create living dolls. Barasuishou is a fake Rozen Maiden i.e. a doll that appears to be alive but she is not.

1: Nah, i dont think Rozen really could repair the dust after Suigintou been burnt instead i think he make a new doll that exactly looks like Suigintou and place Suigintou's Roza Mysticae in her 'new' body.

2:Suigintou should be enough for proofing.

3:Barasuishou is alrdy shown that Enju has the ability. She does alive . If not, how can she move,talk and fight? I think Enju use other Mystacae to replace with Roza Mysticae(since he can't make it) to make Barasuishou alive.

p/s: seriously, i am soooooo blur on wth are you guys talking about.:confused:

physics223

2006-06-07, 04:58

My brain has been fried with the post I made over at the suggestions thread. Don't worry guys, I'll catch up with you by maybe tomorrow. :)

If you'd like to check out that post, click here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=583190&postcount=18). With a lack of sleep, that pretty much fried me.

Just when I thought all discussion was dead. Good job, Alu, for starting it up again.

Dark Steno

2006-06-07, 05:16

p/s: seriously, i am soooooo blur on wth are you guys talking about.:confused:
Because you're only 12 years old ¯\(¯A¯)/¯

physics223

2006-06-07, 05:19

Mincemaker

2006-06-07, 07:25

Exactly. You just proved my point that Barasuishou isn't truly alive. She is more like a machine that mimics human emotions. The Rosa Mystica is essentially the Rozen Maiden's souls. Note that when a Rozen Maiden loses her Rosa Mystica, she cannot move or talk.

Enju cannot repair a crumbling doll, but "Rozen" could repair a doll that was burned to a cinder. Suigintou was on fire, remember? As I've said before, Enju did nothing special.

It can be used in the context of a "skill", just like "race car driver".

There is no proof of this in the anime, sorry.

Shinku is the fifth doll created by a Rozen. That guy at the beginning created Shinku, but you dont have any proof that he created any of the other dolls.

Then why did Enju say, "watch the instant where the greatest doll is born" at 14:22 of RMT episode 12? He obviously wanted to create a Rozen Maiden that would defeat all the other dolls and become "his" Alice.... but he failed.

Not IMO. Barasuishou seems devoid of a personality and is just mimicking the other dolls.

Look again in episode 1 of Traumend. Shinku is the fifth to be made, and the first 3 that are known in S1 is shown watching Rozen making Shinku. It is safe to say he made the other three. So he made all 5, he may as well had made all 7 even. That episode has proven that the Rozen Maiden is made by a Maestro named Rozen, your truly. Hence their name, the Rozen Maiden.

A living doll does not necessary have a Roza Mystica. Look at the 'knights' of Shinku. They are momentarily alive but they don't have Roza Mystica. And when they were immobile, they already had a soul. Jun is a Maestro because he could bestow a soul to what he created, and he could return the soul of what is broken. Then there is Barasuishou, she is alive, but has no Roza Mystica. Currently, only Rozen knows how to make Roza Mystica. Barasuishou is powered not by Roza Mystica, but from something else that is equivalent to the Roza Mystica.

The Roza Mystica is the physical manifestation of a doll's soul. Rozen made it that way that the soul of the doll is bounded to the Roza Mystica. However, to the normal dolls, they had their own soul since the weary beginning, just that they lack the means to move. You can see that in Barasuishou, and in the Voodoo dolls of Jun (even Shinku has said that they had a soul. Hell, she said that the large mirror in the storeroom has its own soul). They all had their own soul. It just happens that the Rozen Maiden's soul has a physical manifestation, the Roza Mystica.

And Barasuishou does have personality, just that it doesn't really attracts the viewers. She is a serious, ruthless, cold, manipulative but loving (she loves her father, Enju) terminator. I had just described her personality, see?

She has the ability to move, to think, and she has a personality AND emotions (she cried when she crumbled). What does that mean? Barasuishou is a living doll! (OMG, I just defended Barasuishou! Suigintou, forgive me!)

And Rozen, as stated earlier, remade Suigintou! You didn't really see Suigintou repaired. And oh, I forgot, you can't just give Suigintou her belly without remaking her. And if Suigintou is merely repaired, she wouldn't had suffered momentary memory loss.

And finally, Enju is NOT trying to make a Rozen Maiden. He is NOT Rozen after all, but an apprentice of Rozen. What he is trying to do is to make a masterpiece (Barasuishou) who is better than all of Rozen's masterpieces (the Rozen Maiden).

And if Rozen is a title, care to explain how Enju could be Rozen's apprentice? One man can't be an apprentice to many Maestros of the same field. So Rozen is a man, and he is a Maestro, and not only that, the greatest Maestro of Dollmaking.

There are only 7 Rozen Maiden, they are all made by Otou-sama, Rozen. And hence they are called Rozen Maiden. Barasuishou is not a Rozen Maiden because Rozen didn't made her. Enju did.

physics223

2006-06-07, 07:46

Mind if I join in? What's the debate about?

Dark Steno

2006-06-07, 08:08

But no matter where I am, guys - I definitely am an RMer. It's probably my top three of all time.

Dark Steno, you've been having a lot of Yuki Nagato recently ... she's cute, I'll tell you that, but I haven't watched or plan to watch Haruhi. :)
Hey, we all like RM and most probably being an RMer. Probably I say. :heh:

The only character that I like in Haruhi Suzumiya's series is Yuki Nagato. Maybe a bit to like Mikuru but that's it.

physics223

2006-06-07, 08:15

I think Haruhi Suzumiya is obnoxious, but that's just me.

Going back on RM ... hmm ... does anyone have news on the third season? I know this has been asked more than I've taken a bath this entire month, but ...

Alu

2006-06-07, 10:29

Then why did Enju say, "watch the instant where the greatest doll is born" at 14:22 of RMT episode 12? He obviously wanted to create a Rozen Maiden that would defeat all the other dolls and become "his" Alice.... but he failed.

Correct answer to this is as follows bellow :
(Quoted from myself from Page 85)

I think that Enju realized that Shinku was probably Rozen's best creation.., I mean.., there is clearly something about Shinku that makes her stand above all the other maidens.., I am saying this.., even though I don't like Shinku very much..

Actualy.., Enju while on the window watching over the Alice Game said a phrase that I think captures what's "so special" about Shinku..

It was something like "its so beautiful.., your anger.., silently burning crimson.. Shinku.." - that beeing said and we see Shinku's change of reaction after Sui and Kana having been defeated clearly shows us that there is more then meets the eye when it comes to Shinku.., she in fact is indeed.. VERY powerfull..

When it came down to the last battle between Bara and Shinku.., it seemed to me that Enju was more or less apathatic on the situation; this despite his desire to see his doll overcome Rozen's.., if Jun had not stopped Shinku from defeating Bara, most chances are she would have destroyed Bara and taken the Rosa Mysticae all into herself.., thus becoming Alice.., which probably would be something Enju would like to see aswell.

After all.. it was the creation / birth of "the Perfect girl"...; thus to him as beeing a Maestro.., this would be like seeing the Holy Grail, despite whoever it belonged too..

Also.., I can't belive your still on the "Maestro=Skill" thing.., tsk.. good lord.. :p

NezoR

2006-06-07, 10:42

Look again in episode 1 of Traumend. Shinku is the fifth to be made, and the first 3 that are known in S1 is shown watching Rozen making Shinku. It is safe to say he made the other three. So he made all 5, he may as well had made all 7 even. That episode has proven that the Rozen Maiden is made by a Maestro named Rozen, your truly. Hence their name, the Rozen Maiden.

No. You haven't proven anything, you're just assuming that the guy at the beginning of RMT created all the dolls. The only one I saw him create was Shinku.

A living doll does not necessary have a Roza Mystica. Look at the 'knights' of Shinku. They are momentarily alive but they don't have Roza Mystica. And when they were immobile, they already had a soul. Jun is a Maestro because he could bestow a soul to what he created, and he could return the soul of what is broken. Then there is Barasuishou, she is alive, but has no Roza Mystica. Currently, only Rozen knows how to make Roza Mystica. Barasuishou is powered not by Roza Mystica, but from something else that is equivalent to the Roza Mystica.

I'm not saying the "Knights" didn't have souls, I'm saying that Barasuishou doesn't have a soul. Enju clearly wanted to make a Rozen Maiden (which is essentially a living doll that can achieve the perfection known as "Alice") but he failed. He thought that Barasuishou was going to become Alice (watch ep 12 of RMT again) but she didn't, why? Because Enju could not live up to the title, "Rozen". He created a beautiful yet lifeless and soul-less doll. Barasuishou at the beginning of RMT, showed no emotion whatsoever. Over time, however, she began to show emotions by mimicking the other dolls. This was clearly demonstated in the anime. Even at the end when Shinku held her on the ground she was just mimicking Shinku's words. Enju created Barasuishou to be a "Rozen Maiden" that will defeat the other dolls and become what he wanted Alice to be. But again he failed because he couldn't live up to the title of "Rozen".

And Barasuishou does have personality, just that it doesn't really attracts the viewers. She is a serious, ruthless, cold, manipulative but loving (she loves her father, Enju) terminator. I had just described her personality, see?

Barasuishou is devoid of a true personality. What person you know stares at you like a robot and repeats the words you say? You're right about one thing though, Barasuishou does behave like the Terminator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminator).

She has the ability to move, to think, and she has a personality AND emotions (she cried when she crumbled). What does that mean? Barasuishou is a living doll! (OMG, I just defended Barasuishou! Suigintou, forgive me!)

No she isn't. Barasuishou is a mimicker, she is not alive.

And Rozen, as stated earlier, remade Suigintou! You didn't really see Suigintou repaired. And oh, I forgot, you can't just give Suigintou her belly without remaking her. And if Suigintou is merely repaired, she wouldn't had suffered momentary memory loss.

Hmmm?? Seems to me that the "Rozen" who created Shinku repaired Suigintou twice.

(1) He repaired her burned body.

(2) He repaired her torso at the end of RMT. There is no evidence that he created Suigintou from scratch.

BTW, Suigintou suffered from what is called amnesia. She didn't have the memory loss because a Rozen remade her from scratch, she had it because she experienced a traumatic event i.e. being burned alive.

And finally, Enju is NOT trying to make a Rozen Maiden. He is NOT Rozen after all, but an apprentice of Rozen. What he is trying to do is to make a masterpiece (Barasuishou) who is better than all of Rozen's masterpieces (the Rozen Maiden).

If Rozen is one person and only his dolls can become Alice, then why did Enju expect Barasuishou to become Alice? Makes little sense to me for Rozen to be a single entity.

I've also made this clear before. I do not think that Alice is a single entity either. The Alice you see in the anime is what Suigintou would look like if she won the Alice game (that is why that Alice has wings and long hair). If Shinku became Alice, she would look nothing like the Alice you see in the anime.

The first Rozen (which is like the title of the ultimate dollmaker) created Suigintou. The first Rozen Maiden.

The second Rozen who is a completely different person created Kanaria. The Second Rozen Maiden.

The third Rozen, who is also a completely different person, created both Suiseiseki and Souseiseki, the third and fourth Rozen Maidens.

The fourth Rozen, the one you see at the beginning of the anime created Shinku, the fifth Rozen Maiden.

The fifth Rozen created Hinaichigo, the sixth Rozen Maiden.

The sixth Rozen is Jun who can create a Rozen Maiden if he wanted to..

Enju is not a Maestro (aka master of a craft) and he is not a Rozen, he's just a mere dollmaker. That's why Barasuishou crumbled and didn't become Alice.

Kirakishou is a bit of a mystery. I'm not even sure if she is a Rozen Maiden.

And if Rozen is a title, care to explain how Enju could be Rozen's apprentice? One man can't be an apprentice to many Maestros of the same field. So Rozen is a man, and he is a Maestro, and not only that, the greatest Maestro of Dollmaking.

(1) Enju was an apprentice to one particular Rozen.

(2) How can Rozen be one man when all the dolls look so different. Alice is the perfect girl, not the perfect "girls". Alice seems to me to be a manifestation of what each Rozen wanted his perfect girl to be. In the first Rozen's mind, the perfect girl had wings like an angel, that's why he made Suigintou. In the second Rozen's mind, the perfect girl was a beautiful little girl with green hair, that's why he made Kanaria. The third Rozen is unique that he created two dolls, but keep in mind that Souseiseki and Suiseiseki both look very much alike.

There are only 7 Rozen Maiden, they are all made by Otou-sama, Rozen. And hence they are called Rozen Maiden.

And this is where we fundamentally disagree. I believe that the 7 Rozen Maidens (except for Suiseiseki and Souseiseki) were created by different people. We both have different interpretations of the storyline.

Barasuishou is not a Rozen Maiden because a Maestro who is a Rozen didn't made her. Enju did.

Fixed. ;)

I think that Enju realized that Shinku was probably Rozen's best creation.., I mean.., there is clearly something about Shinku that makes her stand above all the other maidens.., I am saying this.., even though I don't like Shinku very much..

If Shinku was Rozen's best creation then why did he proceed to make Hinaichigo and Kirakishou, who look nothing like Shinku? This whole idea of Rozen being one person makes no sense to me.

abang brother

2006-06-07, 10:53

Alu

2006-06-07, 11:00

(2) How can Rozen be one man when all the dolls look so different. Alice is the perfect girl, not the perfect "girls". Alice seems to me to be a manifestation of what each Rozen wanted his perfect girl to be. In the first Rozen's mind, the perfect girl had wings like an angel, that's why he made Suigintou. In the second Rozen's mind, the perfect girl was a beautiful little girl with green hair, that's why he made Kanaria. The third Rozen is unique that he created two dolls, but keep in mind that Souseiseki and Suiseiseki both look very much alike.

Why do you keep making me do this...
Quoted from myself from Page 159..., there's the answer to your (again) ridiculous speculation.. :

Diversity yes.., as we all see all the dolls have many diferent aspects from each other.., despite the fact though that we could sometimes pair-them in terms of level of "perfection" achieveded; like Hina+Kana / Gin+Shinku, etc.
It still makes each have they're own "unique" caracteristics, specialy when it comes to personality aspects.

All and all, I belive the road chosen by Rozen to achieve Alice was not as long-term planned as you might have ment.
What I mean is...

Rozen from the start wanted, or wished to created the perfect doll, Alice.., I belive his desire was not to create several dolls and then give them the chance of one day becoming Alice.

Gin was the first doll he make.., but as we all know she failed to become Alice.., despite beeing incompleat she lacked compassion amongst other aspects; thus this lead Rozen to try again.
Not the original he plan he had in mind, but since he had failed with his first doll to acomplish his goal, I belive he then decided after to try diferent aspects while creating them as in hope that he would then succed in creating Alice.

Allas.., it was not to happen aswell.., despite having changed several aspects in each of the doll he created as an atempt to create Alice.., all had they're own flaws and imperfections.
Yet in the end he probably realised that each would complement each other.., specialy if they learned to grow emotionaly; so that lead him to belive that even though they came out as imperfect and flawed to Alice, one day one of them could eventualy become her.

It is a fact.., all of the Rozen Maiden when it comes to Alice are simply just flawed atempts.., it sounds harsh.., but I belive when Jun asked Enju regarding this aspect.., Enju replyed that without Love they could not have been created.

Thus, even having failed at Alice in the begining, Rozen still loves them all.
He ended up not beeing able to create Alice but he did end up with 7 very distinct unique dolls.

Just try and think things simple.., I mean.. saying there are a diferent Maestro.. or as you ridiculous keep adressing as.. "A" Rozen.. for each diferent Rozen Maiden.. is just plain absurd..

If Shinku was Rozen's best creation then why did he proceed to make Hinaichigo and Kirakishou, who look nothing like Shinku? This whole idea of Rozen being one person makes no sense to me.

Please look at what I above quoted.

I am giving up on you.. seriously.., its all well in each person having they're diferent look at certain aspects of a determined content.., but I belive I speak on behalf of us here.., that even at more then 100 pages back when we first started to discuss most of these aspects.., through many deliberation.. all of your conclusions had been Then.. rendered Rong.

Thus.. if still after all the evidence I & Mince wrotte you still keep trying to find excuses.., its just not worth it..

Please excuse me if I am a bit bitter on this.. its just... you've been repeating yourself everytime when presented with more and more evidence on how you are most possibly rong, and yet you will not give-in on ANY aspect..

Hence.. I am as of now.. no longer pursaiding you.., feel free to think what you desire.., make up 100 Rozen's if you wish :)

abang brother

2006-06-07, 11:03

Rozen is ONE! Jun or Enju or watsoever is just his pupil who have the power that is fixing and making dolls which Rozen has. Rozen only can make Rozen Maiden, if Jun or Eju or watsoever make a doll that is alive than it will me Jun Maidens or Enju Maidens or Watsoever Maidens.

NezoR

2006-06-07, 11:10

I don agree the part you say Suigintou would look like if she won the Alice game (that is why that Alice has wings and long hair).

Actually Suigintou or Shinku can become Alice, when Shinku become alice, she may have the wings from Suigintou (and Shinku hair is long too).

If Rozen is one person and his perfect girl that you see in the Anime is the one and only Alice, then why in God's name woud he scrap Suigintou's design (Suigintou is the only doll that looks like Alice) and then proceed to build dolls that look nothing like Alice? It makes absolutely no sense for Rozen to one person.

Suigintou is another proof, Rozen did fix her at the end of RMT when he is touching Suigintou stomach.

Huh?? :twitch: I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say. Jun has the ability to fix Shinku, that doesn't mean that he created Shinku. The guy at the beginning fixed Suigintou, but that doesn't mean that he created Suigintou.

To Alu

I clearly stated that we have different interpretations of the storyline and the concept of Rozen Maiden. I said, "let's agree to disagree".

abang brother

2006-06-07, 11:19

ano ne, .. can we ... erm .. continue the Junk June ?? onegai!

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/abgbro89760/suigintou.jpg

Alu

2006-06-07, 11:31

I clearly stated that we have different interpretations of the storyline and the concept of Rozen Maiden. I said, "let's agree to disagree".

Diferent interpretations is putting it in soft words dear.., I myself am willing to drop my assumptions if and when I am proven them rong..

You on the other hand are compleatly iluded by yours and do not give-in on any aspect as I previously said..., even when more and more and more and MORE you are given evidence as to why your assumptions are rong.

Because if you even after all of this keep writting things as..
Jun has the ability to fix Shinku, that doesn't mean that he created Shinku. The guy at the beginning fixed Suigintou, but that doesn't mean that he created Suigintou.

Then clearly no matter whatever we say, and how MANY times we say it..., your opinion will NOT change..

Hence.. I realy don't like beating up a dead horse so (and you already made me do that several times).., if any other wish to pursay giving you more evidence on how rong you are its up to them..

Myself.., I now support aband brother's decision and get back to Junk June :)

Riker

2006-06-07, 11:41

ano ne, .. can we ... erm .. continue the Junk June ?? onegai!
I now support aband brother's decision and get back to Junk June :)
Okie Dookie Part Two!!1!

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/8779/11494194919530wh.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494194919530wh.jpg) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/8974/11494156626401ef.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494156626401ef.jpg) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/8716/11494145912579ev.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494145912579ev.jpg)

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/4135/11494168653631er.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494168653631er.jpg) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/5365/11494171245935hp.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494171245935hp.jpg) http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/8018/11494176529019ue.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494176529019ue.jpg) http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/2895/11494166068082hb.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494166068082hb.jpg) http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/6182/11494164012965gz.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494164012965gz.jpg)

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/4621/11494163603751tg.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494163603751tg.jpg) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2034/11494163330380lp.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494163330380lp.jpg) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/9030/11494161004910nl.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494161004910nl.jpg) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1222/11494159093309co.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494159093309co.jpg) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/897/11494150793296dx.th.gif (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494150793296dx.gif)

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1876/11494149273402yk.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494149273402yk.jpg) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/5858/11494149670372qh.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494149670372qh.jpg) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/946/11494153948971jg.th.png (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494153948971jg.png) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/377/11494154868477fo.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494154868477fo.jpg) http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2426/11494143900275gk.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494143900275gk.jpg)

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/2681/11494172003280km.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494172003280km.jpg) http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/4788/11494175056788af.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11494175056788af.jpg) http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/2142/11495366828631ey.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11495366828631ey.jpg)

I didn't want to interupt the discussion previously. :x

abang brother

2006-06-07, 11:43

is this a repost?
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/abgbro89760/Gin_Megu.jpg

Alu

2006-06-07, 11:48

And here is Gin :)
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2471/tetchi2006021211396830284894ju.th.jpg (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tetchi2006021211396830284894ju.jpg)

And here is another sneak-entry on behalf of Shinku, Sui and Hina in Junk June :p
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/1097/tetchi200602081139361483340ma.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tetchi200602081139361483340ma.jpg)

Flo

2006-06-07, 11:53

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7617/113501448fl.jpg
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3160/113503717qn.jpg

KiNA

2006-06-07, 12:02

^ .. This is floW .. the innocent twin brother of flo O__O

NezoR

2006-06-07, 12:03

Rozen from the start wanted, or wished to created the perfect doll, Alice.., I belive his desire was not to create several dolls and then give them the chance of one day becoming Alice.

I totally and absolutely agree with this. There can only be one perfect doll, not many perfect dolls.

Gin was the first doll he make.., but as we all know she failed to become Alice.., despite beeing incompleat she lacked compassion amongst other aspects; thus this lead Rozen to try again.
Not the original he plan he had in mind, but since he had failed with his first doll to acomplish his goal, I belive he then decided after to try diferent aspects while creating them as in hope that he would then succed in creating Alice.

Allas.., it was not to happen aswell.., despite having changed several aspects in each of the doll he created as an atempt to create Alice.., all had they're own flaws and imperfections.
Yet in the end he probably realised that each would complement each other.., specialy if they learned to grow emotionaly; so that lead him to belive that even though they came out as imperfect and flawed to Alice, one day one of them could eventualy become her.

Now this is where we part ways. Your explanation doesn't make any sense to me. If Rozen is a single entity and Suigintou failed to become Alice (perfection) then why would Kanaria and the other dolls look and act so differently from Suigintou and Alice.... let me put this in bold, Suigintou and Alice? Why would Rozen create Suigintou (who for the 100th time looks like Alice), scrap the design, create something totally different (Kanaria) and then create a game where if Kanaria wins, she reverts back to the original scrapped design? :twitch:

As an artist I will tell you that If I drew something that I liked (for example a beautiful scenery, like a forest) and I find it to be imperfect, there is no way I would scrap it and then draw a desert. I would try my best to tweak the work that I've already done (the forest) instead of doing something totally different.

Diferent interpretations is putting it in soft words dear.., I myself am willing to drop my assumptions if and when I am proven them rong..

You on the other hand are compleatly iluded by yours and do not give-in on any aspect as I previously said..., even when more and more and more and MORE you are given evidence as to why your assumptions are rong.

Because if you even after all of this keep writting things as..

Then clearly no matter whatever we say, and how MANY times we say it..., your opinion will NOT change..

Hence.. I realy don't like beating up a dead horse so (and you already made me do that several times).., if any other wish to pursay giving you more evidence on how rong you are its up to them..

Myself.., I now support aband brother's decision and get back to Junk June :)

You're exactly right. No one here proved to me that,

(1) Enju can repair a Rozen Maiden.

(2) The guy at the beginning of RMT created all the dolls.

(3) Rozen is a single entity.

(4) Barasuishou is "alive".

Until then, my opinion wont change :p

Alu

2006-06-07, 12:09

You're exactly right. No one here proved to me that,

(1) Enju can repair a Rozen Maiden.

(2) The guy at the beginning of RMT created all the dolls.

(3) Rozen is a single entity.

(4) Barasuishou is "alive".

Until then, my opinion wont change :p

eh... Its as I've been saying..., no matter how many times after another we say the same things.. you just won't get it..

If you realy cannot see all the evidence that is strong enough proff written in all the words in the previous posts.., then.. You are Blind as a Bat :p

Ah well.. c'est la vie ^^

Mince, Lost, etc... over to you now..

Flo

2006-06-07, 12:17

You're exactly right. No one here proved to me that,

(3) Rozen is a single entity.

Until then, my opinion wont change :p

Relate Yakumo as Suigintou, Eri as Stinku. (Dun be mistaken folks, ERI RULZ! BUT STINKU SUCKS! GRAVE INJUSTICE TO ERI!) and Rozen as Harima and everything will be very very clear (Repost for great Justice)

http://img173.imageshack.us/img173/1038/113501767mm.png

^ .. This is floW .. the innocent twin brother of flo O__O
O RLY?
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3258/113502519em.gif

NezoR

2006-06-07, 12:17

Then it's back to Junk June then. :D

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4868/junk7qt.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/1968/junk127pv.jpg

I hope these aren't reposts. :heh:

abang brother

2006-06-07, 12:30

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/abgbro89760/suigintou_001.jpg

She blonde her hair!

NezoR

2006-06-07, 15:45

:(

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2405/junkcrying4rp.jpg

ujiuji

2006-06-07, 16:34

I don't want to continue the debate, but I have always assumed that it was Enju who repaired Suigintou. I suppose her burnt body was retrieved by the Laplace Demon after series one & brought to Enju. She was then repaired & her doll case placed in a location where it could be easily found by Megu; a potential medium carefully chosen to exploit Suigintou's not-seen-before sympathy and thus make her easier to manipulate. Barasuishou's telling her that it was Father who had repaired her was part of that manipulation, just as the vision of the crying "Father" was used to manipulate Souseiseki. The aim, of course, being to get all the (reluctant) dolls into the Alice game so Barasuishou could beat them. Enju didn't know about Kirakishou but then he was being manipulated too.
So yes, I think Enju could repair Rozen Maiden dolls. I can't prove it, it doesn't matter to me if someone can disprove it. It's just what I thought was going on behind the scenes while watching.
Does anyone else see it that way? (Probably if I looked hard enough in this thread I'd find someone has posted the same opinion, and every other possible opinion come to that!)

Alu

2006-06-07, 17:46

@ujiuji : It had been discussed aswell many pages back :)

I toke the liberty of extracting an exert from a post I made back then regarding this subject.
This is my point of view on it.., altough many have supported it then..., its possible that NezoR now with his space theories contradicts it ^^

- I do not belive it was Enju that repaired Gin.., but I do belive that Enju was responsible for putting her in the church for Megu to find her.., thus.. organizing the entire plan to trick her..

Reason for this is.., when Gin block's Bara's attack on shinku, right before she loses her Rosa Mystica.. she says "Father told me.. I have the right to become Alice.., even with this body"

Now.., we know that Gin's memories did not fully come back right after she was awakened after beeing defeated by Shinku and repaired / re-built.., but after the time passed she started to remember; so it is possible that while she was beeing repaired she met with Father and he told her that..
Thus, later on in the process she, herself eventualy remembered it, which is not shown.

Hence beeing what I belived happened.

RM-FAN

2006-06-07, 19:08

blitz1/2

2006-06-07, 19:08

I wonder if Kirakishou has another ultimate attack that she didn't show us yet.

Nightbat®

2006-06-07, 19:17

anything is plausible, but I'm sure Megu's just an innocent bystander
Even if suigintou needed a medium, chances would have been big she would have
rejected Megu, she's eager to become alice, but doubt she's want to go into battle handicapped

'the powers that be' were taking a high risk offering a crippled horse to race with

suigintou 'taking the offer' was pure luck

(or Gin didn't want to worry about "using up"/killing a 'healthy' person, megu's toast
anyway, why not put her to a good use instead of killing someone with a life yet to
live, we don't know how "humane" she actually is)

Flo

2006-06-07, 20:41

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/8299/11495294238383vp.jpg

Zenemis

2006-06-07, 20:46

hey, i wanna that all everybody explain me this dudes

1.¿why there is much images of Suigintou with a bottle of energy drink? you know, that little bottles

2.¿why there is much images of Suigintou with the symbol of the Nazis?

¿somebody can explain me that?

1. Yakult (Health drink) - You can wiki it, and the reason she's portrayed so often with it? - She mentioned, *once*, Lactic Acid Bacteria, which is the primary component of Yakult, to Sou's Master, and thus the Yakult thing.

2. I have no idea where the Nazi thing came from, but I reckon its her grin :P

@ Flo - Where's the comb going =/

Flo

2006-06-07, 20:58

@ Flo - Where's the comb going =/
From the position of the comb, it's suppose to comb under Gin's hair as oppose to the normal hair combing.

Or would you prefer Megu take cOmO at Gin's VagOOO and J-J-JAM IT IN!

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1583/11496895177782wy.gif

Zenemis

2006-06-07, 21:20

From the position of the comb, it's suppose to comb under Gin's hair as oppose to the normal hair combing.

Or would you prefer Megu take cOmO at Gin's VagOOO and J-J-JAM IT IN!

No, not at all, but that's the first thing I thought, and I like to think I have a clean mind. I could be horribly wrong though.

EDIT: No, other way around btw =| - Damn, I've been horribly desensitized.

Oh, she's coming for me isn't she.

Flee....

EDIT 2: Okay, I'm just not a fan of Suigintou, or Kanaria - I do generally respect them though. Where's the Shinku love? =|

Flo

2006-06-07, 21:34

My wife and daugther on Junk June
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/1897/113509806to.png
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/842/113509734yr.png
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7287/113509462jn.png

Suiseiseki

2006-06-07, 21:37

From the position of the comb, it's suppose to comb under Gin's hair as oppose to the normal hair combing.

Or would you prefer Megu take cOmO at Gin's VagOOO and J-J-JAM IT IN!

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8727/jamit7oo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Alu

2006-06-07, 21:37

EDIT 2: Okay, I'm just not a fan of Suigintou, or Kanaria - I do generally respect them though. Where's the Shinku love? =|

I belive Shinku has September correct.. ?

Anyway.., if you realy desire Good Shinku pic's.., you should speak with Flo here.., I am pretty sure that Flo's favorite Rozen Maiden is without a doubt.. Shinku.

So.., I am sure he will be more then happy to provide you with the best Shinku pictures you will ever see :p
(oh my... what have I just triggered.. ^^)

Zenemis

2006-06-07, 21:39

Damn, that is kinda persuasive.

Especially the second pic.

EDIT: I'm fine with pics heh, there's plenty of great stuff here - I read all 180 pages.

As far as spare time goes... yeah...

Flo

2006-06-07, 21:40

I belive Shinku has September correct.. ?

Anyway.., if you realy desire Good Shinku pic's.., you should speak with Flo here.., I am pretty sure that Flo's favorite Rozen Maiden is without a doubt.. Shinku.

So.., I am sure he will be more then happy to provide you with the best Shinku pictures you will ever see :p
(oh my... what have I just triggered.. ^^)
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/49/113500036ru.jpg

Zenemis

2006-06-07, 21:41

You can do better than that Flo :P That's weak ;)

Flo

2006-06-07, 21:43

Your wtf has no effect on me. *immune*
Not my problem sonny. :p

You can do better than that Flo :P That's weak ;)
That's none of my problem as well, I just post, weak or whatever.

Zenemis

2006-06-07, 21:45

It almost is, you're the source of my immunity :P

Alu

2006-06-07, 21:49

You can do better than that Flo :P That's weak ;)

Here is one of the best advices you'll ever hear on your life..
Regarding Flo... DON'T push him..; For the sake of all us and all that is holy.., please.. don't push him for more pic's.

I am already mentaly suffering for having triggered him to place that Shinku pic; remind me never to do that again.. :p

Flo

2006-06-07, 21:52

It almost is, you're the source of my immunity :P
Good, but I'm not responsible you're like that. :p

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/5792/113510515bz.jpg

Zenemis

2006-06-07, 21:55

That's a cool cookie.

Mincemaker

2006-06-07, 22:07

abang brother

2006-06-07, 22:11

Zenemis

2006-06-07, 22:11

Suigintlet ;)

Everything could be argued as having a personality, and so long as they can make decisions of their own will, I would consider them to be "sentient life".

I consider all the Rozen Maidens "living", but Bara seemed quite borderline until the scene where we see her with Enju. She shows affection, and I'd consider that an emotion, of the third kind.

Flo

2006-06-07, 22:12

You guys really shouldn't expect me that everything I'm here it's like "Oh shit, another wtf session" I can post decent ones if I wanna. :p It's just too much good pictures will overheat and thus turns out to be "Oh, it's ok, nothing special". I got few cases like this on other forums i visit, too much quality makes it feel bland. Of course too much wtf can make them look normal as well, props to Zenemis. That's the goal I'm trying to reach here, make not so good picture -> normal.

Anyway June is still young and not enough Junk.
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4074/11493521419941wl.jpg

abang brother

2006-06-07, 22:18

Flo, any horrible picture of Gin? :P

Flo

2006-06-07, 22:19

Flo, any horrible picture of Gin? :P
Not really, want hentai pictures of Gin instead? :D

Edit: Oh wait, it's against forums rules to post such things.

And I have to get off work, surprising eh? See ya when I get back

Zenemis

2006-06-07, 22:24

Hentai is the reason I hate Google Image Search, though I once found some very interesting Laplace pics...

Alu

2006-06-07, 22:25

I had also given up on Nezor. He is as stubborn as a mule, or is it very ignorant.
I had known people who behaves like a terminator, and mimics speech for the sake of annoying people. So you say he has no personality?

It does take alot, but trust me when I say.. It still amazes me that...

After hours we spent (specialy me) writting, researching and ended up filling almost 2 pages with STRONG evidence ; aspects which also had been discussed previously ; aspects which we all had agreed upon ; and in the end showed us the best conclusions to our questions..

That he STILL didn't give in on ANY of his points of view and kept supporting his own ideals, despite how ridiculous some even where.. :p

I guess there realy are no bounds for, like you said Mince..., stubbornance.. or ignorance ^^

Well.., this hasn't been the first case.., and certanly hasn't been the last where people have diferent points of view..., even though.. it still amazes me..

Mincemaker

2006-06-07, 22:40

It does take alot, but trust me when I say.. It still amazes me that...

After hours we spent (specialy me) writting, researching and ended up filling almost 2 pages with STRONG evidence ; aspects which also had been discussed previously ; aspects which we all had agreed upon ; and in the end showed us the best conclusions to our questions..

That he STILL didn't give in on ANY of his points of view and kept supporting his own ideals, despite how ridiculous some even where.. :p

I guess there realy are no bounds for, like you said Mince..., stubbornance.. or ignorance ^^

Well.., this hasn't been the first case.., and certanly hasn't been the last where people have diferent points of view..., even though.. it still amazes me..

Well, like the ancient Chinese saying:

It is easier to move mountains and rivers than to change a person's character.

In Nezor's case, it is his beliefs, which makes no sense and is somewhat ridiculous. I doubt he will change even after watching Rozen Maiden for the hundredth time.

And how do you explain those Loch Ness Monster maniacs who are still sticking to the belief that Nessie exists, despite being told repeatedly that there is no conclusive evidence of its existence, and how some of the 'photographs' are hoaxes? Nezor certainly fits that mould.

Anyway, great Suigintou picture. Junk June is a great month.

Zenemis

2006-06-07, 22:54

That pic makes me want a Shinku plushie of my own ;)

Lost

2006-06-07, 23:29

ARRRRRGHHHHHH.. I'm gone for two days and the thread explodes, I miss wonderful little discussions, a super yummy debate and the chance of making a huge post :(

But exam's are over so, yay! :D :D

You like it?? No fair! Kirakisou jsut appeared and now... another version RM is born ?
You see, its all a ploy to make us read the manga!!! Grr..

Bleh have to go first. Will add to this post later.

@physics: :p :D

Alu

2006-06-07, 23:50

ARRRRRGHHHHHH.. I'm gone for two days and the thread explodes, I miss wonderful little discussions, a super yummy debate and the chance of making a huge post :(

eh.., I wouldn't exactly call it wonderful..., nor little for that matter ^^
If you take a look at my posts.., can you even begin to imagine the work it gaved me to writte all of that down :p

I miss doing small posts..., anyway.. welcome back Lost :)

Edit : Your still in time to share your points of view in the aspects.., I honestly would very much like to read where everyone stands on them.

RM-FAN

2006-06-07, 23:57

She mentioned, *once*, Lactic Acid Bacteria, which is the primary component of Yakult, to Sou's Master, and thus the Yakult thing.

yeah, i remember that in the Episode 8 of the first season, but i dont understeand why the Yakult "represent" to Suigintou, ¿only because she mentione this in that episode?

abang brother

2006-06-08, 00:26

Not really, want hentai pictures of Gin instead? :D

Edit: Oh wait, it's against forums rules to post such things.

And I have to get off work, surprising eh? See ya when I get back

pm to me ler .. :p

Suiseiseki

2006-06-08, 01:26

Some Junk:

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/5593/ginwhite16fi.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9586/ginwhite29gn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2819/hikari9gt7fu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/6156/junkbooty4gz.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=junkbooty4gz.jpg)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5344/yakultpower5zd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1364/starvingin0pz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8809/ginplague8de.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1198/angrygin1pw.th.gif (http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angrygin1pw.gif)

Now comes the desu:

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/32/saman8vo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4853/junkcage4ns.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8698/sniper3gn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7159/113503868uv.th.jpg (http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=113503868uv.jpg)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8628/113503881ow.th.jpg (http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=113503881ow.jpg)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/6113/113503974cr.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=113503974cr.jpg)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/4049/113503988lc.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=113503988lc.jpg)

Zenemis

2006-06-08, 02:19

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1364/starvingin0pz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This pic owns, not sure why though. Almost Minimalist.

Suiseiseki

2006-06-08, 02:28

Whole lot of Junk:

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4371/suia5dh.th.jpg (http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=suia5dh.jpg)

Better version of Pimp Sui:

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/6127/pimpsui20uv.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pimpsui20uv.jpg)

Trying to convince a brick wall that it's not a tree is a waste of time.

Lost

2006-06-08, 03:10

eh.., I wouldn't exactly call it wonderful..., nor little for that matter ^^
If you take a look at my posts.., can you even begin to imagine the work it gaved me to writte all of that down :p

I miss doing small posts..., anyway.. welcome back Lost :)

Edit : Your still in time to share your points of view in the aspects.., I honestly would very much like to read where everyone stands on them.
LOL.. Alu, you've really outdone yourself :D Nice one, nice one, it is the longest post I've seen on AS :) But I don't feel like reading much of it (and the corresponding salvos, Nezor, Mince, which look equally :cool:) because I'm feeling really lazy and I slept at 3 this morning. :heh: Care summarizing what aspects you're refering to? If its too troublesome nevermind; I read thru bits and pieces of that debate.. you guys made some mighty fine points.

yeah, i remember that in the Episode 8 of the first season, but i dont understeand why the Yakult "represent" to Suigintou, ¿only because she mentione this in that episode?
Haha.. yeah why not? Shinku and the rest have Tea and Orange Juice, so Gin should also have something to drink ;) Btw, whats with your inverted question marks? >> ¿

Anyway, thanks for the welcome, nice to be back :) Glad to see Junk June is doing fine and well.

edit Flo, I think that this picture (http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7287/113509462jn.png) is really amazing.. somehow it really really moves me. To think that someone like Gin is capable of such love -- I know she is, but just to see that expression on her face leaves me speechless. And a kawaii Ginlet!

Hmm.. at the end of each doll-themed month (or maybe on the last day of that month), shall we post on which picture posted here in this thread was our favourite? Not really a poll, just saying which picture out of all we liked the best?

Flo

2006-06-08, 09:41

Megu, Gin and the red string of fate.
http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/3474/11497215822346mh.jpg

Megu, Gin and Yakult
http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6843/11497752867588hv.jpg

physics223

2006-06-08, 10:04

Flo, if you kept on consistently posting great pictures like these, I don't think people will be scared of you. That's just me, of course.

Flo

2006-06-08, 10:12

Flo, if you kept on consistently posting great pictures like these, I don't think people will be scared of you. That's just me, of course.
There are times where Great will become Bland over a period of time. That's why WTF exist. To make Great stay Great, while WTF be accepted by everyone as Normal

Zenemis

2006-06-08, 10:13

Blushing Gin is the way of the future!

Lost

2006-06-08, 10:15

WTF to contrast the Great eh. HAHA.. blood transfusion between a Human and Doll? Red line of Life you mean. Honestly, I thought that red line was part of the IV :heh:

Flo

2006-06-08, 10:28

Now if only I can get enough WTF for Fate/Stay Night so I can start a 1 post bombardment.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/622/11487541448301eq.jpg

Mincemaker

2006-06-08, 10:31

Lol, is that Enju crossdressing in your avatar, Lost?

physics223

2006-06-08, 10:44

I can't believe what Kira needed was a mother's breast ...

Lost

2006-06-08, 10:54

HAHAHA.. Noo!! You wish it was, Mince? :p Its a weird fanpic of Shizuru from her Mai HiME days. And also my very first Ava on AS. ^^

But who's that woman in Flo's picture?

Flo

2006-06-08, 10:59

¯\(º_o)/¯ lol (jk)

It's Human Kira cuddling Human Gin's boobies

blitz1/2

2006-06-08, 11:18

Aww how kawaii..

It has a human Kirakishou! Hooray!

abang brother

2006-06-08, 11:22

Somebody kill that Hinaichigo from JunkJune!! It's controllling me to post this picture!!!

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/6653/hinaichigo17zs.th.jpg (http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hinaichigo17zs.jpg)http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1075/hinaichigo26gw.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hinaichigo26gw.jpg)http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5849/hinakoandhinaichigo0ln.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hinakoandhinaichigo0ln.jpg)http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9154/hinaichigo33ml.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hinaichigo33ml.jpg)http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5902/hinaichigo43cx.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hinaichigo43cx.jpg)

Nightbat®

2006-06-08, 17:21

Man, this thread moves faster than 4chan's /c section

solwyvern

2006-06-08, 17:38

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/solwyvern/1149791238719.jpg

blitz1/2

2006-06-08, 17:47

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/solwyvern/1149791238719.jpg

3rd season poster?

But where's Kira?!!!

Alu

2006-06-08, 17:52

Solwy... is this actualy true.. ? Is THAT realy a 3rd Season Poster.. ?
Can someone please confirm it ?
(please say yes, please say yes, please say yes :p)

blitz1/2

2006-06-08, 17:59

No Kira?!!

Arrgh!!!!

Damn the artists. Include Kira or Barasuishou at least!!!

Riker

2006-06-08, 17:59

Erm, sorry to disappoint, but that is the TV Animation Visual Book.
http://www.akadotretail.com/shop/shop_showbook.php?id=4797335556

But on the bright side, that means that hopefully someone will scan and share the yummy pics inside.

Rus

2006-06-08, 18:37

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2673/rozen0557ff.gif
Jigoku Shoujo
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/solwyvern/1149791238719.jpgDVD?.......

Suiseiseki

2006-06-08, 18:44

Throws castilla at solwyvern for raising my hopes for a 3rd season.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/293/11431806739769gg.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Slaps self for wrong interpretation.:(

I demand a 3rd season and not another book.

RM-FAN

2006-06-08, 18:58

Suiseiseki

2006-06-08, 19:07

Hina is on the rampage!

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9370/11497943670081sc.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11497943670081sc.jpg)

:love: drool.:love:

Rus

2006-06-08, 19:09

SUGOI!SUGOY DESU 3rd SEASON DESU

abang brother

2006-06-08, 19:56

Kirakisou doesnt have of course because she has not appeared to her sisters yet.. and why the dead Hinaichigo and Souseki alive?

DAMM IT!! WE DEMAND SEASON 3 OR OVA OR MOVIE AT LEAST!!!!!!!!!!

Lost

2006-06-08, 20:22

Ah.. I dont see how screaming that out here will help. :uhoh:

Bah.. funny picture, but I still can't smile when it comes to Hina. I honestly still don't think I've gotten over her death :heh:

Flo

2006-06-08, 20:25

Hina is on the rampage!

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9370/11497943670081sc.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11497943670081sc.jpg)

:love: drool.:love:
Is Hinanosaurus feeling herself using the building?:heh:

blitz1/2

2006-06-08, 20:41

Season 3 will fail without Kirakishou!

They must have Kira.

Riker

2006-06-08, 20:41

Original Wallpapers:

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2854/11415782929608tv.th.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11415782929608tv.jpg) http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/8781/11418982864191eh.th.jpg (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11418982864191eh.jpg)

Shopped Wallpapers:

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/531/11415782422988ai.th.jpg (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11415782422988ai.jpg) http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/390/11468259106489lh.th.jpg (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11468259106489lh.jpg)

[EDIT]

That's the 2nd time in a row that blitz1/2 posted at the same time as me.
Yet his post appears above mine. HAX!!! :heh:

Flo

2006-06-08, 21:01

Surprisingly, am I the only one who does not wish for a 3rd season?

Just a 3 episode OVA.

Lost

2006-06-08, 21:06

Why dont you want a 3rd season, Flo?

Actually, I agree with Flo. As long as it wraps up the story with Hina alive and the dolls happy and Shinku and Gin together (:p) I'm fine. But thinking about how they revealed Kira and all, 3 eps would seem a little short, yet 12 eps a little too long. :heh:

Flo

2006-06-08, 21:08

Three 1 hour OVA episodes. Do the math it'll be like 6 normal 30 mins TV episode. Surely more than enough.

Unless the production crew are bunch of dickheads, I would expect a Four 30 mins OVA episode from them, no less.

And Stinku must die in the end of the OVA. The rest will be kepted alive.

Lost

2006-06-08, 21:13

Three 1 hour OVA episodes.
Oh... that would be *drooool*

Flo

2006-06-08, 21:50

The Secondary reason why Suigintou participate in the Alice Game.
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2561/11498204473985qn.jpg

RM-FAN

2006-06-08, 22:24

HEY EVERYONE, I KNOW HOW CAN THE SIX ROZEN MAIDEN DEFEAT TO KIRAKISHOU

IN THIS FORM:

http://www.pooshlmer.com/wakaba/src/1138494974053.jpg

abang brother

2006-06-08, 23:39

6 defeat one?? LMAO!!!

Btw, whats the form?

Suiseiseki

2006-06-09, 00:31

If there is a 3rd season Shinku and Suigintou should both work together to kill Kirakishou. Just after they kill Kira, Shinku will act all smug about her own work, while Suigintou takes advantage of the moment to kill Shinku. Happy end.:D

Though I wouldn't mind a Suiseiseki only movie.:p

Back to Junk June:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/628/9051tu3fr.th.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9051tu3fr.jpg)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3157/113520765bd.th.png (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=113520765bd.png)

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8674/danboorup1126578874322801yu.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danboorup1126578874322801yu.jpg)

Whoever made Gin wear pink has committed a crime so terrible I expect that person to be taken out back and shot!:mad:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8063/rozen25155me.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rozen25155me.jpg)

RM-FAN

2006-06-09, 00:41

abang brother

2006-06-09, 00:47

Shi-! that person who "force" Gin wear pink should die !!!!!!

Dark Steno

2006-06-09, 06:44

And Stinku must die in the end of the OVA. The rest will be kepted alive.
Why? WHY? WHY SHE MUST DIEEEEE... :uhoh:

This is my new wallpaper. Pretty like it. :p
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7049/mydesktop5bv.th.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mydesktop5bv.jpg)

Alu

2006-06-09, 06:49

This is my new wallpaper. Pretty like it. :p
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7049/mydesktop5bv.th.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mydesktop5bv.jpg)

Behold..., the Loli army.. ^^

blitz1/2

2006-06-09, 06:52

No, Kirakishou must live and live life anew. Barasuishou can come back and be Kira's combat tutor or something.

Season 3 must have the eyepatch twins (and keep them alive)

blitz1/2

2006-06-09, 07:08

Wow. I can't imagine Saddam wanting to see RM season 3.

abang brother

2006-06-09, 07:09

Why? WHY? WHY SHE MUST DIEEEEE... :uhoh:

This is my new wallpaper. Pretty like it. :p
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7049/mydesktop5bv.th.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mydesktop5bv.jpg)

Dark Steno Army With Loli's Look...

Mincemaker

2006-06-09, 07:24

abang brother

2006-06-09, 07:34

We also want happiness time not always fighting, sometimes i felt this anime is abit violent.

Ya, Kirakisou is dangerous. Cannot hug or whatsoever her or her seed will out!

Mincemaker

2006-06-09, 07:37

We also want happiness time not always fighting, sometimes i felt this anime is abit violent.

Ya, Kirakisou is dangerous. Cannot hug or whatsoever her or her seed will out!

Well, many anime were very violent. Dragonball is uber violent, then we have Berserk that is more-than-uber violent, then we have Akira, also uber violent, and then....

....the list goes on.

NezoR

2006-06-09, 07:49

Why was my post deleted? :twitch: I've seen people post images of Adolf Hitler (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26342&page=171) and Nazis in this thread and their posts aren't deleted. Oh, well I guess I'm not wanted here, so I'm leaving this forum (that's why I removed my sig and avatar) and going somewhere else. Oh, and one thing before I go....

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/1341/11497215822346mh8nk.th.jpg (http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11497215822346mh8nk.jpg)

I really love this pic. Thanks for posting it Flo. :D Bye.

abang brother

2006-06-09, 07:51

Junk June will end and will be started again on this monday. Eyepatch Weekend is coming. So,here some pictures!

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6372/danbooruunfp1133659437234145xc.th.png (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooruunfp1133659437234145xc.png)ht tp://img47.imageshack.us/img47/39/danbooru11175130172vp.th.jpg (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11175130172vp.jpg)http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/5968/danbooru11180671517qn.th.jpg (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11180671517qn.jpg)http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8956/danbooru11182420764cs.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11182420764cs.jpg)http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9286/danbooru11180177095qh.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11180177095qh.jpg)
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9687/danbooru11182868717rs.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11182868717rs.jpg)http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9555/danbooru11182867769it.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11182867769it.jpg)http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7447/danbooru11187727731jk.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11187727731jk.jpg)http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8664/danbooru11187626522fz.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11187626522fz.jpg)http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/5981/danbooru11187727873lu.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11187727873lu.jpg)
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/2817/danbooru11190726480qx.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11190726480qx.jpg)http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/5474/danbooru11190708077ad.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11190708077ad.jpg)http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8270/danbooru11188094398uz.th.png (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11188094398uz.png)

Catgirls

2006-06-09, 07:58

Why was my post deleted? :twitch: I've seen people post images of Adolf Hitler (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26342&page=171) and Nazis in this thread and their posts aren't deleted. Oh, well I guess I'm not wanted here, so I'm leaving this forum (that's why I removed my sig and avatar) and going somewhere else. Oh, and one thing before I go....You don't have to leave the forum, but this thread doesn't need pictures of Saddam Hussein, Adolf, Nazis or any other images unrelated to Rozen Maiden. There's no reason to leave. Just stay On Topic and remember that AnimeSuki is not an Image board like 4chan/2chan. And please people...try to use thumbnail images when posting large images.

Thanks. Cheers.

solwyvern

2006-06-09, 08:24

Oh, well I guess I'm not wanted here, so I'm leaving this forum (that's why I removed my sig and avatar) and going somewhere else. Oh, and one thing before I go....

*tsch* He's really leaving... :(

Anyway,..
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/solwyvern/1149814761658.jpg

abang brother

2006-06-09, 08:36

Bad End!!!!!!!

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/9452/danbooruunfp1149287892969699zq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

solwyvern

2006-06-09, 08:39

▲ I could use more of those. :D

Erm, sorry to disappoint, but that is the TV Animation Visual Book.
http://www.akadotretail.com/shop/shop_showbook.php?id=4797335556

But on the bright side, that means that hopefully someone will scan and share the yummy pics inside.

Oh, and sorry for the confusion. I was just as surprised as everyone when I first saw the pic. It was very nice to see all your reactions though. :p

And, as Riker said, on the bright side, if someone scans them I'll be sure to make wallpapers out of the nice pics it might contain.

And one more thing,
[ANNOUNCE:] I'd like to edit a rainmeter skin of Suigintou, but I can't find a pic that would match. If anyone wants a Suigintou Rainmeter skin, post some pics of Suigintou that would make nice Rainmeter image. And I'll see what I can do.

Flo

2006-06-09, 09:41

By far the most best Gin pic I've found today.
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/8764/11497269350607tf.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/8764/11497269350607tf.jpg)

Alu

2006-06-09, 10:02

You don't have to leave the forum, but this thread doesn't need pictures of Saddam Hussein, Adolf, Nazis or any other images unrelated to Rozen Maiden.

@NezoR : What Catgirls ment by this I belive was..., while there have been in the past and still to this day pictures with images of for example..., Gin giving a Nazi medal to someone.., Gin leading a group of KKK members.., Gin beeing saluted by Soviet Soldiers.., and even that Kanaria-Hilter picture..

They are ALL Rozen Maiden related.., as in.., they all have something to do with the anime / characters..

Your picture on the other hand was just a picture of Saddam shouting and with the letters written bellow "we demand season 3".

Altough yes I can see the joke as I am sure all can aswell.., but thing is, it holds no real relation to "Rozen Maiden".

Still like Catgirls said.., there is no need to leave over this.

@Lost : Your avatar REALY does look like Enju cross-dressing :p

Mincemaker

2006-06-09, 10:26

By far the most best Gin pic I've found today.
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/3568/11497269350607tf6bk.th.jpg (http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11497269350607tf6bk.jpg)

Real nice, but the face does seem a little wide...

And once again, those eyes! The eyes that sends shivers down my spine is very clearly potrayed here.

Not that it is bad. It is real good instead.

Nightbat®

2006-06-09, 15:28

The only thing missing in RM so far is romance

Suiseiseki

2006-06-09, 16:02

Plenty of beautiful junk right here. Junk has never tasted so good.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4239/0002174zs.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0002174zs.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/1634/0003115ls.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0003115ls.jpg) http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7245/0004561jc.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0004561jc.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/1472/0004685tw.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0004685tw.jpg) http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2725/0005061xt.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0005061xt.jpg)

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4382/0005081wt.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0005081wt.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/7688/0005121xi.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0005121xi.jpg) http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6927/0007702vo.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0007702vo.jpg) http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8238/0005732sj.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0005732sj.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/6826/0008072qg.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0008072qg.jpg)

http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/8356/0009333jg.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0009333jg.jpg) http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2960/0009341wz.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0009341wz.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/7830/0009559dc.th.gif (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0009559dc.gif) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/2176/0010189sp.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0010189sp.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/2405/0010799mv.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0010799mv.jpg)

http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/3827/0011597fn.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0011597fn.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/7903/0011765xz.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0011765xz.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/4930/0012776du.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0012776du.jpg) http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4589/0013176el.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0013176el.jpg) http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9775/0013338yw.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0013338yw.jpg)

http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/9186/0014074py.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0014074py.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/2888/0014977gi.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0014977gi.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/6880/0015002wp.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0015002wp.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/3944/0015814gf.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0015814gf.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/3344/0015887rl.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0015887rl.jpg)

http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/1363/0017794bd.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0017794bd.jpg) http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/3261/0022526cj.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0022526cj.jpg)

Dark Lord Zenigame

2006-06-09, 16:03

Thanks to you all, for giving me lots of Gin-sama pictures to go "moe~~~" over. :>

Streetor

2006-06-09, 16:22

I can't imagine the implosion this board will go through if a 3rd season is announced.

I also can't imagine the complete meltdown this board will suffer if a Rozen Maiden 3rd season is declared to never happen.

blitz1/2

2006-06-09, 16:23

For once, I am admiring Gin slightly more than the eyepatch twins. Nice pics.

Lost

2006-06-09, 21:01

I much rather if by season 3, Suigintou patches things up with Shinku and, in a sense, sign a peace treaty and lay off all the "I will turn you to Junk!" actions. But keep some degree of hostility, so we may enjoy seeing Gin-sama and Shinku quarrel over petty issues, and attempting to insult each other as 'ugly' or 'harlot' or 'barbarian'.

Barasuishou can stay dead. As I said, I doubt Enju will rebuild her. I mean, he has to obviously suffer from severe depression and probably gave up dollmaking to weep in his N-field or something.

Kirakishou should be potrayed as disturbing, just like in the manga, where all her attacks were disturbingly violent. That will be a nice watch.

Oh, and create a Suiseiseki and Shinku rivalry, but this one is for Jun's affection.

And it would be real nice to see Shinku trying to 'refine' Jun (you will understand what I mean), and some, wait, more Megu character development from a pessimist into an optimist.

And more Jun-and-Shinku moments. Season 2 didn't have enough of that. And we need Jun to show off more of his Maestro-ness. That's none of that in Season 2.
Thats true, I think they focused more on SuiseiSeki-Jun in Season2, in fact, they focused alot on SuiseiSeki. I too want more Shinku-Jun moments, after all she's the primary doll. It'll be fun to have Gin and Shinku bickering (like Sui-Hina or Sui-Shinku), that will show us that they are on so-so good terms, and finally give us some healthy Gin comedy :)

I do not want Shinku to die, not that I like her sooo much, but because Jun would be devastated. Well, its okay if she "dies" but like I said before, a realistic emo reset will be needed to bring her back to life, preferably at Jun's maestro-hands.

Megu character development will be good, and if they provide a realistic catalyst for her change to optimism, all the better. (Random thought: you know, it'll be tragic if once Megu gets the will to live, she gets killed protecting Gin - I'm evilly emo :heh:)

Sorry, blitz, but I personally dont see how an evil Kira can continue living at the end of the show :rolleyes: After all, she has Hina's RosaMysticae with her. :p

@Lost : Your avatar REALY does look like Enju cross-dressing
Noooo~ Hahaha.. Never knew the Ava would get such an interesting response. Please, don't give me any ideas. :o :naughty:

I also can't imagine the complete meltdown this board will suffer if a Rozen Maiden 3rd season is declared to never happen.
Safe to say, AS will have a problem on its hands.

Really, June belongs to Junk. For Gin, I like this one (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danbooru11182867769it.jpg)

RM-FAN

2006-06-09, 22:57

do you think that HinaIchigo can be return from the "death" if her Rosa Mystica still exist?

Mincemaker

2006-06-09, 23:28

This was posted before, but I post it again for the sake of Junk June.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF_nEDSaKIQ&search=rozen%20maiden

Dark Steno

2006-06-09, 23:47

do you think that HinaIchigo can be return from the "death" if her Rosa Mystica still exist?
I think so. Because everything will be a happy end. lol

abang brother

2006-06-10, 00:23

do you think that HinaIchigo can be return from the "death" if her Rosa Mystica still exist?

Ya maybe, if someone can find it .. :D

solwyvern

2006-06-10, 00:23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAG1mwBNCKw&search=rozen%20maiden

*Hopes in season three/OVA, the setting would be more of a medieval place, as shown in the Op of Duell Walzer*

I believe Rozen Maiden would be a much better series that way, and Jun would look like just as he appeared in the Opening credits of Traumend.

RM-FAN

2006-06-10, 00:58

I think so. Because everything will be a happy end. lol

yeah, but...

what will make yours if Souseiseki and HinaIchigo are gone complety?

simply.....i think that will never can asimilate that

abang brother

2006-06-10, 01:31

i may think .. sayonara .!!!

Mincemaker

2006-06-10, 04:19

Make it a bittersweet ending.

Anyway, I don't like the Duellwalzer opening much. Kinjirareta Asobi did not seem to fit into the mood of the opening, and the opening isn't dark enough.

solwyvern

2006-06-10, 04:24

Anyway, I don't like the Duellwalzer opening much. Kinjirareta Asobi did not seem to fit into the mood of the opening, and the opening isn't dark enough.

They should have made a new song. :heh:

Anyway it's always refreshing to see new Rozen animation.

Zenemis

2006-06-10, 06:25

The Traumend OP was fine ;)

blitz1/2

2006-06-10, 07:55

A good ending would be: everyone alive.

Kirakishou goes under a change of personality and lives happily ever after. (I wonder is she really has a medium)

Lost

2006-06-10, 08:39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAG1m...rozen%20maiden
Ahhhhh!! :frustrated: Is it me or does Shinku look Anorexic?? :upset:

I agree they should have made a new song for the game. I mean, to reuse K.A. is a bit ... The game doesn't feel so original now. :heh:

do you think that HinaIchigo can be return from the "death" if her Rosa Mystica still exist?
A doll's RM will always exist, even if it does not belong to her anymore, as long as there is one doll remaining (effectively, Alice) her RM will be in that doll. As for Hina's RM, it is currently with Kira and Bas**** Bunny. I believe that if her RM were retrieved, and if Rozen wanted to, Hina would be resurrected. After all, her body is intact right? However, I think that in the absence of Rozen's approval, Jun could go ahead and bring Hina back to life using her RM on his own, restoring her "soul" just like he did to that clown in S1. In fact, I'll be digging for that. Where Jun gets so powerful, he'll rival Rozen himself.

Flo

2006-06-10, 09:19

A good ending would be: everyone alive.

Kirakishou goes under a change of personality and lives happily ever after. (I wonder is she really has a medium)
That's boring, I want Ideon-ish Ending. Everyone dead then everything starts from the beginning. This time, the dolls will become human. Wouldn't that be a better ending? :)

RM-FAN

2006-06-10, 13:56

hey, what you think about this

if Kirakishou destroy the body of HinaIchigo but, in the final her Roza Mistica is back

how can you imagine the Rosa Mistica of Hina in the body of the clown?

Zenemis

2006-06-11, 01:41

That's boring, I want Ideon-ish Ending. Everyone dead then everything starts from the beginning. This time, the dolls will become human. Wouldn't that be a better ending? :)

Not only boring, but far too... normal/cliched.

Shinku going evil would be a little more fun, but still very cliched.

Something like Frankenstein would be fun.

Shinku gets torn apart by Kira, Jun "fixes" her, and she commits suicide because of some reason or another soon after.

It wouldn't make much sense, since it's been suggested strongly that Jun is a "true master" of sorts, so a death + revival + happily ever after would be fine, in my opinion.

PS: Sou and Hina are almost certainly staying dead. :rolleyes:

abang brother

2006-06-11, 01:58

Maybe the Roza Mystica is almost gone?

Alu

2006-06-11, 02:06

Well.. judging along the lines as what the type of Anime Rozen Maiden has been.. for a possible end on season 3 I at first think it might go something like..

During the entire process of the series we will witness without a doubt a tremendous character development in all of the Rozen Maiden..., will it either be on Gin with her new-found compassion and regard for Megu, or Sui learning to know a much more depressive state because of Sou's death, or even Shinku on what are the other ways to become Alice and restore Sou's and Hina's Rosa Mystica..

Hence needless to say that by the end of the series all the dolls have grown even much more mentaly then they have so far; Season 3 will be without a doubt the most "heavy" season.

We must not forget Kira is now entering the stage and Laplace is still pulling the curtains sort of speak it is certain that some battles will take place;
thus.., I fear that some of our beloved Rozen Maiden will also have they're Rosa Mystica removed.., will it either be out of sacrifice for another or simple loss to Kira, that I can't say..
But I have hopes in seeing Gin & Shinku team up vs Kira :)

Anyway, as I've said.., its possible that more Rozen Maiden will "die" before the end, but that just sort of builds the foundations for what I think will happen.

Its possible that Gin will sacrifice herself for Shinku once more in a battle vs Kira, taking Kira along with her though..; so after I supose and given the emphasis on Shinku through the series.., that Shinku finds another way to become Alice, and actualy does in fact..

But allas she is not able to restore any of the Rosa Mystica of either Sou, Hina, possibily Gin ? Sui ? Kana ?..

So.., she finaly meets with Father.. but at that moment she realises what is more important.., even though she is now Alice.., she cannot stand and let her sisters lifeless like that..

So somehow she adbicates beeing Alice and finds a way, or makes all her sisters alive again.

This concludes that even though Shinku now became a doll again.., she has become even more Pure then "the perfect girl".., and Father certanly has seen this aswell.

In the end with all the aspects and emotions that each have learned and learn to deal with, they all became "Alice" in a way..,
Giving then a well.. happy.. but Meaningful ending to the entire story.

This is all random speculation and Tremendously Vague.., given all the doubts that will still be required to be answered, what and how important Jun's development as a Maestro will be, etc, many many things..
But all and all.., its and ending that I could see happen in Rozen Maiden.

Edit :
@Lost : I have no more doubts about it..
Each time I look.. and even if I stay 5 minutes looking at it..

Your avi IS Enju cross-dressing ! :p

Zenemis

2006-06-11, 02:50

Alu's outcome seems pretty likely.

Mincemaker

2006-06-11, 03:09

I rather the ending is bittersweet. Some sisters were lost in a battle against Kirakishou, but there are still survivors, and one of them actually succeeded in becoming Alice, without taking all the Roza Mystica.

Bittersweet. It is both happy and sad in the same time. I prefer this kind of ending.

Alu

2006-06-11, 03:13

I rather the ending is bittersweet.
Bittersweet. It is both happy and sad in the same time. I prefer this kind of ending.

I too prefer that type of ending, but never the less.., I did writte "judging along the lines as what type of Anime Rozen Maiden is"
So even if what I wrote Is not such a tragedic end.., its one of the most probable possibilities :p

Don't be fooled though Mince..., I am absolutly Positive that Season 3 will be the one most filled with tragedy through out its episodes as we see it develop.

Lost

2006-06-11, 04:11

Don't be fooled though Mince..., I am absolutly Positive that Season 3 will be the one most filled with tragedy through out its episodes as we see it develop.
Honestly, I can't imagine what can be more tragic than Hina losing her innocent, sweet, sweet life. Oh no... not SuiseiSeki.. I will kill someone if my Sui dies :twitch:

Shinku abdicates as Alice and grows even more outstanding, such that Rozen realises it and ends the game eh. I like that too. Only, I myself don't know why, but I always want to see Rozen ending up as the villain at the end, eg. He doesnt want to let Shinku go, and claims her like a mad demented father (aka Enju) but Jun wont allow it, making the final fight not between dolls.. but between the doll makers. Of course Jun pwns, Rozen gets owned and they live happily ever after. :)

I personally would prefer a happy ending, cause I think the end of Traumend was bittersweet enough.

¬¬ Fine!!! :frustrated: Now tell me thats (<<) Enju cross-dressing. :p :D

Zenemis

2006-06-11, 04:25

What sort of combat are you thinking of between these dollmakers?

Lost

2006-06-11, 04:46

What sort of combat are you thinking of between these dollmakers?
Haha good question. As I wrote the above, I was thinking using dolls to do their fighting like Gin did in S1, but that wouldnt be very feasible. Maybe with real weapons, or maybe Jun uses those twirly lines coming from his Medium's rings. :eyespin:

You know, about that idea of controlling a doll, what if on Rozen's side, he somehow remotely controls Shinku and uses her to fight Jun (now, that'll be sad wouldnt it?) Shinku is conscious of what is happening, and she doesnt want to attack, but she can't because her maker is controlling her. So anyway, Jun bears the brunt of her attacks because he doesnt want to hurt her, then.. now this is uninspired and cliched, but she breaks free and.. and.. nah, she wont kill Rozen, but she breaks free of his control, showing that she is no longer his, breaking his heart and causing him to rezz out :heh: Or maybe Gin comes in and guts Rozen. Or an insane Kira :heh:

Zenemis

2006-06-11, 05:16

Lost

2006-06-11, 05:27

How about Rozen tells Shinku to attack Jun? ;)

However, Rozen loves the dolls, so there will be no such thing :P

And what is actually wrong with Kira, and why is she so violent? - I haven't read the manga.
Erm yeah that was what I said, Rozen gets Shinku to attack Jun against her will. I think Kira is insane, but I'm not too sure myself. :)

Mincemaker

2006-06-11, 05:43

Lost

2006-06-11, 06:03

If Jun and Rozen had to fight, I'm thinking of "Who is the better Maestro" contest between Rozen and Jun, where both had to produce their best products in a week, but seeing that the two of them specializes in different fields of art, well......

Going to give the judges a massive headache.

But really, I doubt Rozen would attack Jun. I mean, why should he?

And Alu's outcome is very likely, I think. Looking forward to a tradegy-filled season 3.

@Lost: Lol, where is the cross-dressing Enju?
Hee hee.. a sew-down show-down!! :p

Eh, I guess theres the issue of ownership of Alice (assuming Shinku becomes Alice), since Jun wouldn't be giving her up so easily. But thats only if Rozen wants Alice for himself, which he may not want, I think this ownership thing was dicussed waaay back. :heh:

My ava eh, well, "cross-dressing Enju" has been replaced with "Shizuru looking pretty in the wind." :D

Let me just take this opportunaty to say that Mai HiME pwns!! Watch it! :)

Zenemis

2006-06-11, 06:21

Erm yeah that was what I said, Rozen gets Shinku to attack Jun against her will. I think Kira is insane, but I'm not too sure myself.

Remotely Controlling != Asking/Telling ;)

About Alice, I personally believe that such a being can barely exist logically - even if she should be a "perfect balance" of all we consider to be desirable and appropriate traits, there would be some who would be more desirable in certain aspects to certain people - a perfect person only exists for their perfect match, in my opinion, and it just won't happen in real life.

Seriously though, I would prefer if Alice isn't realised in RM S3, should it occur.

Lost

2006-06-11, 07:00

Remotely Controlling != Asking/Telling ;)

About Alice, I personally believe that such a being can barely exist logically - even if she should be a "perfect balance" of all we consider to be desirable and appropriate traits, there would be some who would be more desirable in certain aspects to certain people - a perfect person only exists for their perfect match, in my opinion, and it just won't happen in real life.

Seriously though, I would prefer if Alice isn't realised in RM S3, should it occur.
Lol ic ic okay. But Shinku would not do something like that if told or asked, or even ordered. She would defy Father. I think. :heh: You know, I still wonder who she loves the most, Jun or Rozen.

Lolz.. yes, about that perfect thing, it would be perfect to Rozen's perception, and not necessarily ours or Jun's. Personally, I want S3 to be the last. Yes, I want RM to wrap up, and thats why I want a happy ending :)

Flo

2006-06-11, 08:52

Best Gin x Megu pic I've found today. C'mon, who wouldn't melt upon seeing this? *Takes out my M3 Shottie*
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/226/megugin4rx.jpg

Zenemis

2006-06-11, 09:21

Lol ic ic okay. But Shinku would not do something like that if told or asked, or even ordered. She would defy Father. I think. :heh: You know, I still wonder who she loves the most, Jun or Rozen.

Lolz.. yes, about that perfect thing, it would be perfect to Rozen's perception, and not necessarily ours or Jun's. Personally, I want S3 to be the last. Yes, I want RM to wrap up, and thats why I want a happy ending :)

Ok wait wait, what if... Jun is Rozen's Father, and Jun came back in time through a time machine, and the time machine disguised itself as Kun-Kun, with subliminal messages detailing core components of future technology, so they can bring in a suitable time travel device in the present, and hence accelerate the building of a futuristic robot army to take over the world, and Alice is the T-X.

Then what...?

Cute pic Flo ;)

Mincemaker

2006-06-11, 10:07

Lol ic ic okay. But Shinku would not do something like that if told or asked, or even ordered. She would defy Father. I think. :heh: You know, I still wonder who she loves the most, Jun or Rozen.

Lolz.. yes, about that perfect thing, it would be perfect to Rozen's perception, and not necessarily ours or Jun's. Personally, I want S3 to be the last. Yes, I want RM to wrap up, and thats why I want a happy ending :)

Rozen: Finally, Alice is born! My little girl is perfect, isn't she?
Jun: *Stares hard at Alice* Errr.....nope. I could still see a little flaw. Your insignia, that scrawly scratch, is still present.
Rozen: Nuuuuu! How can Alice not be perfect????? *Breaks down*
Jun: There there.... *Gives Rozen a pat on the back*

Lost

2006-06-11, 10:14

Rozen: Finally, Alice is born! My little girl is perfect, isn't she?
Jun: *Stares hard at Alice* Errr.....nope. I could still see a little flaw. Your insignia, that scrawly scratch, is still present.
Rozen: Nuuuuu! How can Alice not be perfect????? *Breaks down*
Jun: There there.... *Gives Rozen a pat on the back*
Haha.. Jun PWNS Rozen :)

@Zenemis: :twitch: Ah-huh. You know, I never could get all that time-travel stuff. Still gives me headaches with who is whose dad and who is whose child.

Zenemis

2006-06-11, 10:20

Hey, Rozen needs love too.

Guess that's why there's Alice but still.

RM-FAN

2006-06-11, 10:31

i got a question very interesting:

¿do you think the the become Alice is become in "human"?

¿what will happen with Megu?

¿in the third season/movie Jun is back to the school?

¿Nori will be a importan participation in the third season/movie?

¿Suigintou will finish unity with her other sisters?

¿how can the Rozen Maidens defeat to Kirakishou?

and the last ¿do you think that Rozen Maiden is a shoujo? i think that it is a shoujo serie.

Flo

2006-06-11, 10:40

Or what if the Rozen Mystical is actually Alice's body parts. 1 Head, 1 Torso, 1 Hip, 2 Arms, 2 Legs.

Many many years ago Rozen had a daugther named Alice, then some shit happen and Rozen become psycho and killed Alice then slice her up into 7 parts. Then relized what disgusting and horrible thing he did and a plan to revive Alice is set in motion, thus creating the dolls, and use alchemy shit to turn Alice's body parts into rozen mysticals and put it into the dolls.

RM-FAN

2006-06-11, 10:56

blitz1/2

2006-06-11, 13:40

So much for eye-patch weekend. There were no pics of Kira or Bara. How sad.

Radiosity

2006-06-11, 13:53

Flo - seriously dude, you need help or something :D

Flo

2006-06-11, 14:02

Flo - seriously dude, you need help or something :D
After I seek help, I doubt I'll be called Flo after that. :heh:

So much for eye-patch weekend. There were no pics of Kira or Bara. How sad.
I'll make it up to ya. Better late than never
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7024/11487427409685wn.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/219/11485636976692qr.png

Radiosity

2006-06-11, 14:06

Possibly posted before, but I haven't checked this thread in a while and what the hell, it's a cute gif:

http://www.narcess.net/junk/bara_anim.gif

RM-FAN

2006-06-11, 15:08

Possibly posted before, but I haven't checked this thread in a while and what the hell, it's a cute gif:

http://www.narcess.net/junk/bara_anim.gif

jejeje, that image is similar like this, just look
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1712/11481029881271fj.gif

Radiosity

2006-06-11, 15:18

I would assume it's made by the same person in that case :)

Nightbat®

2006-06-11, 17:04

i got a question very interesting:

¿do you think the the become Alice is become in "human"?

Most "perfection" stories end up like that

¿what will happen with Megu?

Game Over Man!

¿in the third season/movie Jun is back to the school?

Nope, locks himself in his parents basement

¿Nori will be a importan participation in the third season/movie?

I see a bigger role put in for Hina's cat

¿Suigintou will finish unity with her other sisters?

Or kill 'em all

¿how can the Rozen Maidens defeat to Kirakishou?

Nukes!

and the last ¿do you think that Rozen Maiden is a shoujo? i think that it is a shoujo serie.

If he comes running in in a dress wielding a staff and squealing like a little girl,... Yes!

:D Sorry, couldn't help myself

RM-FAN

2006-06-11, 20:34

If he comes running in in a dress wielding a staff and squealing like a little girl,... Yes!

mmm ¿what you wanna mean?, ¿that Rozen Maiden is a shonen anime? I dont think so

RM dont has enough shonen historiy for be consider a shonen serie, you know, macho situation, constantly action body to body, blood, and another points..

the most logic is that RM is anime is a shoujo

abang brother

2006-06-12, 01:41

i got a question very interesting:

¿do you think the the become Alice is become in "human"?
what do you mean??

¿what will happen with Megu?
2 possible, dead or alive

¿in the third season/movie Jun is back to the school?
no wai!

¿Nori will be a importan participation in the third season/movie?
i wish that sui make her become medium and not the old geezer

¿Suigintou will finish unity with her other sisters?
she put a trick and kill them

¿how can the Rozen Maidens defeat to Kirakishou?
working together

and the last ¿do you think that Rozen Maiden is a shoujo? i think that it is a shoujo serie.
i think t3h anime is kinda mysterious and cute girls!!! And romance .. (abit .. between sui and sou)

my aanswer is in the quote

Dark Lord Zenigame

2006-06-12, 02:02

mmm ¿what you wanna mean?, ¿that Rozen Maiden is a shonen anime? I dont think so

RM dont has enough shonen historiy for be consider a shonen serie, you know, macho situation, constantly action body to body, blood, and another points..

the most logic is that RM is anime is a shoujo

Nice to know that you're completely wrong, as Rozen Maiden is a seinen series.

physics223

2006-06-12, 02:53

Yeah. I think it's aimed at older guys ... correct me if I'm wrong.