Rozen Maiden ~Träumend~ (Season 2) [Archive]

Jekyll

2005-12-18, 14:18

Ugh. This loss of information is pretty bad. I shall try to reconstruct this thread from my saved data, as I should have saved most of the pages. It will take me a bit of time, though.

On topic:
Oh, my! Poor Souseiseki.

On the aerial battle versus Barasuishou:
- Barasuishou's main attack needs contact to the surface below
- As the crystals grow, higher altitude means more time to react
- Obviously, hiding between the houses does not work
- Flying above Barasuishou would probably mean getting her in the crystals' way

Thus it seems like a bad idea to me to fly way lower than Barasuishou.

More to follow about episode 9, too.

Edit: Parts of pages 7, 28 and 33 are missing.

Edit 2 (updated): Ok. You can download a ZIP file with the old thread here (http://people.freenet.de/rozendetective/Animesuki_Forum_-_Rozen_Maiden_Traeumend.zip) (790KB). It's frozen in time or something like that, I guess. *sigh*

Edit 3 (updated): Special thanks to Radiosity (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=410195&postcount=14) for the non-zipped mirror of the old thread: http://www.radiant-studios.net/rozen_threads/rozen.html

Kuro

2005-12-18, 14:53

Episode 9 was... in a word.... amazing.

Radiosity

2005-12-18, 15:31

Oho? Something to look forward to then. Just as long as Sugintoh (ugh, spelling?) isn't doing her irritating condescending laugh at all (that really ruined season 1 for me, I can handle any badguy character as long as they don't have that certain style of laugh. A good manical laugh I love, as well as most other forms of insane laughter, but that condescending kind of laugh makes me skip parts of an episode because it winds me up so much. Meh.......)

BonBon

2005-12-18, 19:38

Oh, my! Poor Souseiseki.

On the aerial battle versus Barasuishou:
- Barasuishou's main attack needs contact to the surface below
- As the crystals grow, higher altitude means more time to react
- Obviously, hiding between the houses does not work
- Flying above Barasuishou would probably mean getting her in the crystals' way

Thus it seems like a bad idea to me to fly way lower than Barasuishou.

Oh no! No more thread! Oh well, me must soldier on.

Waaaaaaaah, Souseiseki was my favourite! Bring her back! Curse you, over-powered Yakult fiend!!

About Barasuishou's attacks - she also has the crystal shards, which she would presumably use on an opponent in mid-air with her. But let's face it, the main reason the chase sequence was done like that was for coolness's sake.

Episode nine has made me need counseling.

Muir Woods

2005-12-18, 19:40

Episode 9 was... in a word.... amazing.
Agreed. I posted the majority of my episode 09 thoughts over at 4chan in /a/, but the thread didn't even make through the night before deletion :/. It's an imageboard after all. I'll try to remember and condense what I said. Episode 09 was exactly what I was hoping for in RM Traumend: battles, and the progression of the Alice Game. Those poignant scenes (when Sousei pushed Suisei away, that was wow!), the atmoshere, the emotions, the music...delivers it in spades in episode 09. Good show.

Is it just me, or did the episode 10 preview reveal a bit too much? Maybe it isn't really what it seems...
Ugh. This loss of information is pretty bad. I shall try to reconstruct this thread from my saved data, as I should have saved most of the pages. It will take me a bit of time, though.
Please do. It really boils my blood to think all our mental efforts we've put in posting in Animesuki disappearing into oblivion, and just when I got spectacular aura about too...grrr. Ah well, this isn't the right thread to complain about this anyways...
On topic:
Oh, my! Poor Souseiseki.

On the aerial battle versus Barasuishou:
- Barasuishou's main attack needs contact to the surface below
- As the crystals grow, higher altitude means more time to react
- Obviously, hiding between the houses does not work
- Flying above Barasuishou would probably mean getting her in the crystals' way

Thus it seems like a bad idea to me to fly way lower than Barasuishou.
Well if they flew high or above Barasuishou, Barasuishou can still send fast torrents of shards of crystals at them. Either way, Shinku & Hina will have to do some dodging.

Radiosity, you just described a trait of Suigintou's that I dislike: her laughter. Sometimes its hard to discern if she's laughing condescendingly, or just laughing cause she's nuts, at least to me. I just detest her laughter (and her wicked and cocky smile) altogether.

Radiosity

2005-12-18, 19:59

I just detest her laughter (and her wicked and cocky smile) altogether.

Ah, good, it's not just me then :) And yes, the smile as well, grrr.

edit: ok, something that kinda irritates me is why Bara and Suigintou are so stupidly hard in comparison to the rest of the Maidens. If they were built in order to fight each other so that one could win and become Alice, then why don't they all start on something more of an equal footing to make it a 'fair' fight? There doesn't seem to be much point in even participating to become the ultimate doll if you are - say - Hina Ichigo, because frankly you're gonna lose within seconds of starting a fight with Bara or Suigintou.

Ok, so there's the whole story aspect, where it wouldn't be much fun without the main characters having to stuggle to win, but even so, it still seems a bit silly. Apart from that and the damned laugh, I thoroughly love this series :)

ForeverGoNe

2005-12-18, 20:01

Uck.. it makes me hate Sugintou even more now. But action finally picks up in the series, and oohhh, I can't wait for 10.

Mangaka-chan

2005-12-18, 20:45

Hello everyone, I'm back and reborn! (Actually I just changed my screen name, note the little note below my name :heh: ) Anyways, I haven't seen epi. 9 yet since I don't have my roommate to leech off of but from stuff I've seen this episode was intense! With only about 3 or 4 episodes left I wonder how are they going to end this season. Hmmm...

It seems to be hinted at that Hina Ichigo will be the next victim but I don't see how they can wrap everything up with so few episodes left. Either a lot of stuff is going to happen fast or else I think there might be a third season but that might depend on RMT's pouplarity.

Radiosity

2005-12-18, 21:06

It seems to be hinted at that Hina Ichigo will be the next victim but I don't see how they can wrap everything up with so few episodes left. Either a lot of stuff is going to happen fast or else I think there might be a third season but that might depend on RMT's pouplarity.

Ugh, I hope not, I love Hina Ichigo, she's such a sweet character :( Also, I have to wonder if there won't be some Mai HiME style resurrection ending...

ChainLegacy

2005-12-18, 21:11

The one I feel bad for is Suiseiseki, who is my favorite along with Shinku (at least as of late). In her situation I'd knock one of my vines through both Barasuishou and Suigintou's chests :mad: . Though that might be going against all that she's fighting for :heh:

pianocello

2005-12-18, 21:30

So...any speculation on who is going to be next to go?

Jekyll

2005-12-18, 21:36

Okay, I made the saved pages somewhat usable (fixed links and such stuff). Look into the first post for the URL to the ZIP. If anybody has a bit of web space to spare (about 5.3MB) it would be great, if they could mirror the unpacked files. ;) Actually, even a mirror of the packed file (749KB) would be very nice as that file upload site deletes files after 30 days of inactivity.

Having read the fourth German volume of the manga on the same day I watched episode 9, I saw Souseiseki "die" twice on one day. :(

(I wonder whether Suigintou will "eat" Souseiseki's Rosa Mystica, like in the manga... :twitch:)

Off to deduction or something:

In the manga version, I did get a better picture of her Rosa Mystica, as it extracted itself from her body (without those loads of shimmering like in the anime), and it looked somewhat familiar.

Going back to episode 1 of ~träumend~, in the flashback to Shinku's creation, some weird Actually-Not-Crystalline-But-Looking-A-Bit-That-Way-Structure (ANCBLABTWS from here on) is shown.

ANCBLABTWS: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9430/ancblatws5of.th.jpg (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ancblatws5of.jpg)
Rosa Mystica (manga): http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/3650/rosamysticamanga8am.th.jpg (http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rosamysticamanga8am.jpg)
Rosa Mystica (anime): http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/17/rosamysticaanime5gg.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rosamysticaanime5gg.jpg)

Also, I saw something similar in another place. Enyu put something that looked like a piece of ANCBLABTWS into the oven he used to heat the parts of the doll that he made, while Jun was watching.

A piece of ANCBLABTWS? http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6236/pieceofancblabtws7su.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pieceofancblabtws7su.jpg)

Now, unless it is common practice to put weird substances into the oven you heat porcelain with (which I know nothing of), it would seem to me, like he is trying to do something with that piece of ANCBLABTWS--wherever he may have gotten that from--like, for example, trying to imbue some quality of it into the doll he made, or even consciously trying to create a doll with a Rosa Mystica.

Assertions that are probably true:
- Rosa Mysticæ are made of ANCBLABTWS
- Father had a whole lot of ANCBLABTWS
- Enyu has ANCBLABTWS (either he got his hands on father's supply, or it is a more or less common substance that can be found in Europe and in Japan alike)
- Enyu tries to use the ANCBLABTWS in the process of creating dolls

Speculations on possible scenarios:
1) Assumption: Enyu is not father
1. a) He has found out that ANCBLABTWS might improve the quality of his dolls and is in the process of researching how to use it
1. b) He has found notes of father and tries to create new Rozen Maiden dolls using ANCBLABTWS (or some substitute)
2) Assumption: Enyu is a reincarnation of father
2. a) He has persistent memories (although maybe not quite clear) or found notes of his previous reincarnations and tries to build new Rozen Maiden dolls.
2. b) He has persistent memories (although maybe not quite clear) or found notes of his previous reincarnations and experiments with ANCBLABTWS for reasons unknown.
3) Assumption: Enyu is father
3. a) He tries to build new Rozen Maiden dolls, but for reasons unknown (variance in quality of ANCBLABTWS?) is not successful
3. b) He tries to build new Rozen Maiden dolls, but no longer has the skill to do it (right)
There are most probably more possible scenarios or combinations of those I listed.

...this post is longer than I thought it would. This overlength post was brought to you by forum downtime.

Anyway, here are better versions of some images from episode 7 that I posted before.
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/5879/shinkumicchan8zq.th.jpg (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shinkumicchan8zq.jpg) http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/6023/suiseisekimicchan6jb.th.jpg (http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=suiseisekimicchan6jb.jpg) http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/3519/hinaichigomicchan5ow.th.jpg (http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hinaichigomicchan5ow.jpg) http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/352/souseisekimicchan0to.th.jpg (http://img457.imageshack.us/my.php?image=souseisekimicchan0to.jpg) http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/299/kanariamicchan9nf.th.jpg (http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kanariamicchan9nf.jpg)

Cyz

2005-12-18, 21:43

I like the first season and certainly this one as well. So far, I've watched up to episode 5 and I have 6 to 9 already finished downloaded. Man, I better start watching before it piles up.

Radiosity

2005-12-18, 21:52

Jekyll - I'm uploading the pages to my server, will post linkage when done.

edit:
Pages 3 and 4 are missing, is that for a reason? edit edit - never mind, re-read your first post again, missed some stuff last time round.

Otherwise, here's the link (html page with a link to each thread page)

http://www.radiant-studios.net/rozen_threads/rozen.html

Kyuuen

2005-12-18, 22:13

It's a pity regarding the path Souseiseki chose to walk on, i didn't agreed with her argument, and feel that she shouldn't have make her sisters cry for the sake fulfilling the dream of her Father.

It's very sad to see that the preview that seems to be hinting Hina Ichigo's demise, she and Kanaria are the most innocent of the seven, to happen to her so early in the game... I guess it's better early than late, considering i don't want to see poor Hina crying too much...

HKim

2005-12-18, 22:14

Up until this point, we did not know what Suigintou was going to do in regards to the Alice Game, though we did suspect that after Barasuishou's manipulation, she would again try to defeat the other dolls.

The 9th Episode clearly established Suigintou's position as well as that of Souseiseki and Suiseiseki. We already knew Shinku's pacifist ideology and this knew what she would do in the fight.

What's is interesting to note is that Suigintou has clearly regained some sense of her original personality that was absent in the earlier episodes. Perhaps this reflects the time she has had to think over the Alice game and the other dolls. It is my guess that she was awake quite some time before Shinku woke up with Jun in the first season. Her focus on numbers and the Alice Game simply reflect how long she had to wait and how long she thought upon the subject until it drove her to take action, literally.

I'm not sure, but I think that Suigintou actually was questioning father's motives during her battle with Souseiseki. Although she didn't say it outright, certainly it would be logical for her to wonder about father despite her new situation. In many ways, that battle was between the two dolls that cared for father the most.

Originally I believed that with Shinku being a pacifist, Suiseiseki would take the spotlight with Hinaichigo in terms of battling. Shinku would only fight if Jun or the other dolls were in danger (and only if it was not possible to run away as we saw in episode 9). I have no doubt that Suiseiseki would be quite willing to fight to protect Jun and the others, though that might change with Souseiseki's death. It would either harder Suiseiseki's resolve to not fight, or make her determined to defeat her enemies, especially Suigintou who destroyed her twin. Episode 10 will be the indicator.

If Barasuishou and Suigintou continue to work together, I would say it would be pretty difficult to defeat their combination. When this season started, Barashuishou, Shinku, and Souseiseki were certainly the strongest three dolls. Of course, this has changed with Suigintou's rebirth, Kanaria's introduction, and Souseiseki's death. Now the only two I feel that could stand up two this axis of evil are Shinku and Suiseiseki (and only if Shinku uses her full force). Undoubtedly without Shinku, there will be definite need for Kanaria and Hinaichigo. Heh, poor Jun, he'll be quite spent after that battle.

As for Enju, I have very little doubt that he is the dollmaker, or the dollmaker in a different form. His own philosophy of smashing imperfect dolls fits so well with the Alice Game. Certainly he's mysterious enough and his connection with Barasuishou (who is trying to start the Alice Game), does support the link. Of course, Barashuishou may not know that is father.

The only unknown element in all of this is Jun, surprisingly enough. Jun possesses the rare talent to repair dolls, like father. Thus, even though Shinku should have been disabled at the end of season 1, she was in fact spared thanks to Jun. Jun is in fact the foil (the opposite) of father/Enju. He believes that the Alice Game is pointless and accepts all the dolls despite whatever imperfections they may have. It is Jun that will be the ultimate factor in the end with, if not the skill of father, the raw ability to make a difference and bring back those who are gone to help those who are still here.

Jekyll

2005-12-18, 22:20

Radiosity

2005-12-18, 22:22

No problem, happy to help :)

Forever

2005-12-18, 22:32

Well I thought sugintou was getting the rozen mystica for megu?

I think sugintou also had start questioning the alice game and had already long lost the desire to be alice. Now all she wants is to save megu.

Poor Souseiseki! I hate to see you go. But you wanted to fight sugintou 1 on 1 and that is definitely courting the death you got and she didnt even use her medium powers.

Maybe from now on, every ep will have a doll death? Else how are they going to end this. MOre eps or third season?

crystar

2005-12-18, 22:34

Excuse me while I go cry of sadness. Ah man, they killed my favourite character! :upset: Now I hope at least another doll also dies. Otherwise I'll feel as though they killed off Souseiseki for the sake of having someone killed off. Ah I sound so selfish. :heh: But yeah, RIP Souseiseki.

Imaginary_num6er

2005-12-19, 00:46

Ok, about to leave to Japan in less than 3 hours, I'm unhappy that all my previous translations and such from the offical BBS were deleted. I guess, it couldn't be helped.:(

Souseki's loss is unfortunate, but this raises a few questions:
1. Did Suiseiseki knew the outcome beforehand?
-Some might say this is obvious, since Gin was able to single-handedly take both Sousei and Suisei at once, even without a medium in season 1. Now, by Gin having a medium, she's literally unstoppable.

2. Do you think Sousei is regretting her actions?-Personally, I don't think she regret making the decision to fight in the Alice Game. Its like asking a patriot whether dying for their nation's cause is something of regret. Sousei probably knew that she might, (or most certainly,) lose against Gin.

3. What do you think happens to Gin (for that matter, the Roza Mystica)?-This raises a number of theories that are still not completly answered even in the manga.

A. Sousei's previous existence in the Mystica just "dissapears"
-This theory assumes that unlike the manga, Sousei's previous existence has no effect on Gin. In otherwords, Gin just gets more powerful. Personally, this would be very sad since Sousei's existence is just "erased.":(

B. "Merging"
-Unlike the manga, this hypothesis assumes that Gin's personality and Sousei's personality merges to form a new one. Although, this seems to be very unlikely in terms of set character personality, it makes total sense if Alice is the (combined elements of all dolls thus,) "perfect" girl.

C. Manga alternative (spoiler warning of manga)
-In the manga, Gin gets both the Roza Mystica and Sousei's artifical spirit. Although, Gin never used Sousei's scissors in the manga, my personal assumption is that she could if she wants to. Just like in season 1, Gin was able to gain the ability to go into people's dreams, probably she gains the ability to use the 'scissors'. However, Sousek's Roza Mystica is not completly obaying her.

4. So, does Gin get the Roza Mystica?
-It seems like it, since despite Sousei's wishes, Suisei is barred from being beside her. Obviously, Bara might come in to take it, but it seems like it automatically goes to the winner (which, would be an obvious contradiction to why Hina is still alive).

5. Isn't Gin already too powerfull?
-Unfortunatly, unless something very debilitating happens to Gin, she's the most likely at this moment to reach Alice. Although, Bara was able to take on multiple dolls at once, she had some difficulty against Suiseiseki, once she got a medium. Gin however, has a medium and even without one, she's strong enough as seen from season 1. Now, if she gains more power by absorbing Sousei's Roza Mystica, I don't see how even Shinku + Jun could defeat her.:heh:

6. Then, does the Roza Mystica go to Megu?
-I would hate to see Sousei's life be sacrificed for someone who's "ungrateful to be alive." Sousei's death deserves more than that. :sad: Meanwhile, do you guys think the Mystica is "consumed" by doing this?

7. Possibilities of what happens to Sousei later on?
-There are rumors saying that Sousei "will come back", since all her limbs are intact. Remember, Gin was burning but she came back alive.;) The obvious joke would be, to have her come back on ep6 of the 3rd season.:heh:
Nonetheless, I think its a waste of a character after "surviving" for some 20eps.

Btw, that Gin + Bara tag is too strong. :heh:
Bara dominates the earth, while Suigintou takes the skies. Too bad Sousei didn't join the "winning team".:joke:

Having read the fourth German volume of the manga on the same day I watched episode 9, I saw Souseiseki "die" twice on one day. :(

(I wonder whether Suigintou will "eat" Souseiseki's Rosa Mystica, like in the manga... :twitch:)

Off to deduction or something:

In the manga version, I did get a better picture of her Rosa Mystica, as it extracted itself from her body (without those loads of shimmering like in the anime), and it looked

Nice observation! I never noticed that. Although, I heard rumors about Jun being the "father" for the next era (rozen is known to take different forms), this is something new. As I said before in previous [lost] posts, "father" obviously had some intention of breaking the valuable Roza Mystica into 7 individual pieces. Now, the question becomes: If the Roza Mystica in the first place was that valuble, what is Enju actually putting in the furnace??

Yeah...after reading the manga, I must sadly say that Sousei was only "pre-destined" to die.:sad: Ever since that fight against Bara, I sort of knew, her days were num6ered...

dojikyo

2005-12-19, 01:08

Probably Hina and Kanaria will be the next to go. This will leave Shinku to stand against Bara Suisho or Sugintou. Probably Bara. This based only upon general principal in action animes - the main hero/heroine defeats the main villain. It would be kind of interesting to have Sugintou and Shinku tag team Bara.

Streetor

2005-12-19, 02:02

Man I really wish I could get the manga

Flo

2005-12-19, 02:28

Bah I hate it when everything got wiped out.

My take on Episode 9 in a nutshell
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2565/rozen04842mw.jpg
BONDAGE IN RM!!!!
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/1848/11346728649543bcc0ep.jpg

And before the forum died once, Xellos-_^ said sumthin about Gin X Shinku.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2313/11345549153516eo.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6972/rozen04387ya.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/961/11345435666823kv.jpg

Radiosity

2005-12-19, 02:32

I wish suigintou had been drawn more like that last pic. Her eyes are too squinty as they are - you know, the traditional small pupils for the evil male character thing, but on a female character instead (ok, so they're pink/purple rather than a tiny black dot, but nevertheless the point remains that they look horrible).

Streetor

2005-12-19, 02:33

I don't see why people like Sugintou so much.

She's heartless and cold and she's trying to kill the others!

Is there something in the manga I'm missing because Sugintou is just pissing me off especially from the most recent episode.

Radiosity

2005-12-19, 02:44

You and me both. I can't stand her. As I mentioned before, the laugh, the smile, the general attitude combine to make something I would cheerfully throw on a bonfire and watch burn with a gleeful smile on my face. Bara would join her, it has to be said. Get rid of them and the others could live peaceful and happy lives with Jun and Shinku :D

Streetor

2005-12-19, 03:06

She's drawn better in the manga and doesn't look quite as evil, but if she acts the way in the manga the way she does in the anime, I don't see why people don't hate her.

The thread that was wiped had "gin-sama" this and "gin-sama" that and proclaimed episode six like it was the second coming.

Flo

2005-12-19, 03:12

The thread that was wiped had "gin-sama" this and "gin-sama" that and proclaimed episode six like it was the second coming.
I wouldn't give a damn about Anime Gin in episode 6 if Megu is not here. The first season partically destroyed Gin's character from the manga which I hoped for. I'm more towards Manga Gin than Anime Gin.

Gin x Megu is the only reason I'm hoping to watch in Traumend and thankfully episode met my expectation.

Bow down to Gin-sama, your new dictator!:D
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8113/rozen04564pg.jpg

Imaginary_num6er

2005-12-19, 03:29

The thread that was wiped had "gin-sama" this and "gin-sama" that and proclaimed episode six like it was the second coming.

Maybe these might convince you.
Gin1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/1133501822275.jpg)
Gin2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/1131427120071.jpg)
Gin3 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/1132238913754.jpg)
Gin4 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/1132249625046.jpg)

Yeah, I must admit that Gin's character in the most recent episodes is a little awkward. Gin fans in season 1 probably like her for having a "bewitching" presence, but the most recent episode of her is a little too extreme on the aggressiveness.

(Btw, since when did large images become allowed?? I'm just linking these because, I thought it takes too much space.)

Flo

2005-12-19, 03:46

Maybe these might convince you.
Gin1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/1133501822275.jpg)
Gin2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/1131427120071.jpg)
Gin3 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/1132238913754.jpg)
Gin4 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/1132249625046.jpg)

Yeah, I must admit that Gin's character in the most recent episodes is a little awkward. Gin fans in season 1 probably like her for having a "bewitching" presence, but the most recent episode of her is a little too extreme on the aggressiveness.

(Btw, since when did large images become allowed?? I'm just linking these because, I thought it takes too much space.)

I think I have to disagree on the agressiveness

-Gin asked Suiseiseki to hand over the Rozen Mystica peaceful, meaning that she still hoped for a peaceful resolve without any violence. (14:14)

-Gin could have cheap shot Souseiseki (and possibily Suiseiseki) when Suiseiseki tried to persuade her sister not to fight anymore (17:30), instead she just waited.

If Gin is what you called extremelly violent, everything would be over in (14:14)

Oh, my! Poor Souseiseki.

On the aerial battle versus Barasuishou:
- Barasuishou's main attack needs contact to the surface below
- As the crystals grow, higher altitude means more time to react
- Obviously, hiding between the houses does not work
- Flying above Barasuishou would probably mean getting her in the crystals' way

Thus it seems like a bad idea to me to fly way lower than Barasuishou.

I beg to defer on that
In (13:54) Bara fires *golden nuggets* on Shinku, breaking Shinku's Barrier in the process. Although it's clear that this attack is secondary, she would use it if needed.

I think images are fine as long they don't stretch the thread horizontally. And if it's does stretch, I simply use the spoiler tags.

In another news, Bara needs more love.
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/135/11349126822821ug.png

Radiosity

2005-12-19, 03:48

Maybe these might convince you.

Nah. First pic is beautiful and has been saved to disk, but the rest are still Suigintou enough for me to dislike.

Streetor

2005-12-19, 04:24

I have the first volume of the manga up to volume 2. I do agree the dolls look better. Hina Ichigo looks a bit better drawn and seems a bit cuter.

Gin looks a bit more like a doll. Hopefully I can get the manga somehow.

SSJiffy

2005-12-19, 04:56

The Souseiseki Known

My condolences go out to the Souseiseki fans, but that seemed justified to have happened to her. Her newly found rightousness to please Father and selfishness towards others namely her twin are the root of her demise. Personality is a factor here too, a reserved attitude that brims out as action-forth and please-driven in Träumend, I mean where is this all coming from? This sudden attitude towards action with such blatant acts as leading the first offensive on Barasuishou and then on Suigintou, the two axis powerhouses, was just insane and asking for the end.

anyway, go Suigintou! :D

NeoSam

2005-12-19, 05:01

Rozen Maiden is serialized in the seinen(young men's) manga magazine Comic Birz.

Rozen Maiden is a seinen manga/anime; a manga/anime aimed at young men.
For now there are 7 volumes released of this manga.
Here are the covers:

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1436/vol1kn9.jpg http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/38/vol2gl0.jpg http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/7259/vol3ei0.jpg http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/6648/vol4cj9.jpg http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/9505/vol5yo5.jpg http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/959/vol6xw6.jpg http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6563/vol7nl3.jpg

Genre: Seinen, Action, Comedy, Drama

Cal-Reflector

2005-12-19, 05:25

*Chuckle* I wonder, when was it exactly that one of the most reoccuring, central debates about this show spanning these two seasons became Suigintou? A long long time ago I made a post in season 1's thread about my first impression of Suigintou's eyes--the pain and conflicted personality reflected therein--that struck me as extremely intriuging, which struck a chord with a few people I believe.

I didn't start calling Suigintou Gin-sama and photoshopping propaganda for her until this season though. Afterall, its not often that the fans get what they want. Season one already deviated from the manga by destroying Gin-Sama; and for them to seemlessly reintroduce in such magnificent fashion is nothing short of remarkable.

michiru

2005-12-19, 06:16

Gin-sama in animage of this month.

ttp://ranobe.sakuratan.com/up/src/up77472.jpg

orion

2005-12-19, 06:51

I must sadly admit that Souseiseki had a few screws loose when she went up against Gin-sama.

R.I.P. Souseiseki. :sad:

Flo

2005-12-19, 07:30

May I have all your attention please

http://img493.imageshack.us/img493/2063/rozen03282wc.jpg

kitsura

2005-12-19, 08:20

The sadest part is that there will be no Rozen Maiden until 12th Jan 06.:(

Radiosity

2005-12-19, 08:24

Awww... not only are they taking my beloved Mai Otome and Shuffle both off, but this as well? How the hell are we supposed to cope without our weekly anime fix? :(

Ah well, guess I'll have to see what all this fuss is about regarding the mysterious 'fresh air' substance I've been hearing so much about...

TamaNeko

2005-12-19, 09:31

My condolences go out to the Souseiseki fans, but that seemed justified to have happened to her. Her newly found rightousness to please Father and selfishness towards others namely her twin are the root of her demise. Personality is a factor here too, a reserved attitude that brims out as action-forth and please-driven in Träumend, I mean where is this all coming from?

That's just how Souseiseki is. As it's already been pointed out before, each of the dolls represent a certain personality trait, and Souseiseki is the embodiment of loyalty. She's always been stubbornly loyal, no matter what, first with the old man in Season 1, and now with "Father".

She knew she was going to be defeated, no matter what, but her sense of loyalty means that Father comes first. However, I like to believe that she chose to fight Suigintou because she would much rather go down first than have to fight the other dolls, especially Suiseiseki. :(

Well...at the very least, the recent episodes have been showing more of Hina and Kanaria together. They look really cute together, and I wish there'd be more episodes of them annoying the heck out of Suiseiseki. :D

Oh, and great post on the Roza Mystica, Jekyll. I was also thinking about that for a while now too. But there are still too many mysteries about...I can't help but doubt whether the last 3 episodes can really deliver a satisfying ending...

Jekyll

2005-12-19, 11:11

Concerning the old thread: After checking my archive again, I found the missing pages (3 and 4) and a complete version of page 2. I uploaded a new version (http://rapidshare.de/files/9453993/Animesuki_Forum_-_Rozen_Maiden_Traeumend.zip.html) and will change the link in the first post.

Also, this time I fixed the navigation links inside the pages.

Radiosity: It would be great, if you could update your mirror.

edit: Thanks. :) (Mh. I should probably look for a better place than RapidShare...)

Radiosity

2005-12-19, 11:30

Will do as soon as ToHeart ep4 finishes :) (torrents make my internet crap out for some weird reason, need to format my HD and reinstall windows I think :( ).

edit: ok, it's updated (RapidShare took sodding ages to give me the download. Too many users downloading at once :( ). Same link as before.

Scribble

2005-12-20, 11:44

It looks like Kanaria is part of "Shinku and friends"...for now at least. I'd have preferred if Kanaria stuck to "harmless hostile rival to Shinku and co." like how she was introduced, but that could have gotten annoying (Team Rocket comes to mind).

Maybe I haven't been observant enough, but could someone point out the personality traits of Kanaria that makes her different from the other dolls? She seems like an (unhealthy) mix between Hina Ichigo and Suiseiseki.

Aaah, I'm starting to like Barasuishou now, I don't know why. Especially since it seems like she's more generic in personality than the other dolls.

Trax

2005-12-20, 13:39

I think I have to disagree on the agressiveness

-Gin asked Suiseiseki to hand over the Rozen Mystica peaceful, meaning that she still hoped for a peaceful resolve without any violence. (14:14)

Imo that's more of a mocking comment rather than a serious attempt to resolve things peacefully. And ofcourse she knew the answer in advance. As for the agressiveness, it's partly spurred on by the desire to fix her 'master', and she tends to get fired up by the term junk (used by her master to refer to herself, something that will obviously keep lingering in Suigintou's mind).

Muir Woods

2005-12-20, 14:47

In another news, Bara needs more love.
I gave her plenty of love over at /c/.

I can't help but doubt whether the last 3 episodes can really deliver a satisfying ending...
Sousei is gone, and it seems from the episode 10 preview that Hina will bite the dust next (may not be true, but let's pretend it is). If Alice Game really is a battle royal and nothing more, then it would make sense that they get rid of the "weaker" dolls first so that they don't appear useless in the final confrontation that will inevitably take place in episode 11 and 12. Shinku (although limited to defense, but I'm pondering intensely if she will ever break her own words.), Suisei and Kanaria are the stronger dolls that has any chance of fighting comparably against Bara+Gin. I'm still not quite satisfied of what Karania has done so far (with regards to her serious role). I believe, or expect rather, that she'll prove her worth in the final episodes. Resolving these 6 dolls to one final winner in 3 episodes is rather tight. The good news is, it'll be fast-paced and intense. It is possible, but it won't be all fighting. There will be dialogue left for explanations and twists. If they can't do it, then Rozen Maiden OVAs anyone? Heck I'd want it even if they do manage to finish the Alice Game this season.

Amaiko

2005-12-20, 14:52

That's just how Souseiseki is. As it's already been pointed out before, each of the dolls represent a certain personality trait, and Souseiseki is the embodiment of loyalty. She's always been stubbornly loyal, no matter what, first with the old man in Season 1, and now with "Father".

She knew she was going to be defeated, no matter what, but her sense of loyalty means that Father comes first. However, I like to believe that she chose to fight Suigintou because she would much rather go down first than have to fight the other dolls, especially Suiseiseki. :(

I don't know that loyalty is Souseiseki's driving force in playing the Alice Game. Ever since Träumend started, she's been showing signs of repressed eagerness about the Alice Game; for example, in episode 2, when she asks Shinku if what's bothering her is related to the Alice Game, she has a tiny but definite evil smirk on her face as she asks. She's been pushing the Alice Game just as much as Barasuishou has, just not overtly.

I think Souseiseki isn't just acting out of loyalty to Father (though Barasuishou certainly made use of that to topple the last of her not-very-great resistance) but because she truly does want to fight, even though it would mean destroying her friends & sisters. I don't really have any sympathy for her. She knew that what she was doing and Suisei & Shinku's appeals to her higher nature were ignored--she chose to put a chimera ahead of her relationship with Suiseiseki. And I still can't decide whether the speech she makes to Suisei before her last charge against Suigintou ("You are my enemy!") was a ploy to get Suisei off her or if she genuinely meant it at some level. Which is disgusting.

As for Suigintou; well she is a favorite of mine, so I'm biased. However, she's acting not for her own sake, but for Megu-chan's now, and Barasuishou fed her just as much of a line as she did to Souseiseki. Actually, I find Souseiseki worse in this regard, because Suigintou never made any attempt to hide that she was their enemy, while Sousei betrayed her friends and her twin. I was sort of startled to see her cackling psycho-face was back on for this battle, but I honestly think that's the only way she can fight--by adopting that persona so her inner self doesn't have to deal with the pain and trouble.

On the idea that Suigintou is now unstoppable because she has a Medium; thing is, she knows very well that if she uses too much power, Megu-chan will die, and since she's fighting now to save her, using her would kind of defeat the purpose. And don't think that Barasuishou hasn't planned for that. She'll probably either force Suigintou to use her Medium (possibly killing Megu-chan and breaking Suigintou mentally) or else overpower and defeat her because Suigintou won't use her power.

Also, notice that when Shinku refused to fight back, Suigintou stopped attacking--not only that, Shinku didn't put up any sort of barrier, because she knew that Suigintou wouldn't hurt her; her attack didn't cause any damage to Shinku. Barasuishou had to step forward and take up the attack against Shinku (who did raise a barrier, because she knew perfectly well that Barasuishou wasn't holding back) in order to get Suigintou to start fighting again. I think Barasuishou knew that Suigintou was going to be reluctant to fight against Shinku, so she "took" Shinku and Hina Ichigo, leaving Suigintou to face the Seki twins, whom she doesn't have any strong feelings for.

Kuro

2005-12-20, 16:49

Regarding Suigintou and Megu..

Does Suigintou really have a chance of not using Megus life for power? I understand that in episode 6, she didn't wish to, so much as it just...happened.

Forever

2005-12-21, 23:19

Sousei reincarnated as a human....

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~kinghan/sousei.jpg

Cloudnine

2005-12-22, 02:16

eh... somehow, that looks a bit creepy ^^;;

Mangaka-chan

2005-12-22, 02:46

Wow, now that is one great cosplayer! The eyes especially, I wonder if those are contacts or CG, hmm...

Owaranai Destiny

2005-12-22, 02:53

Regarding Suigintou and Megu..

Does Suigintou really have a chance of not using Megus life for power? I understand that in episode 6, she didn't wish to, so much as it just...happened.

Seems possible, especially if she believes in her own abilities to win the Alice Game and defeat the other dolls. I think it depends on how much power the doll wishes to use that draws power from their mediums.

orion

2005-12-22, 10:19

I also think that personal desires play a role. If your belief/confidence and personal desire is strong, then you've got a better chance at surviving. Like Suiseiseki vs. Bara. When Suiseiseki got ticked off at Bara, she slammed her against the wall. Gin-sama assessed Suiseiseki right, when she stated that Suiseiseki lacked confidence. (Also, she lacks desire and she thinks her powers were meant to bring happiness and not to rain death on her sibs.) Poor Souseiseki only wanted to do it to please Father and got nailed.

So, I think that as long as Gin-sama's confidence and personal desire is tanked up, she really won't have to use her medium until she fights Bara or Shinku.

Also if Suiseiseki starts wanting to fight, she'll be a contender.

But, this still makes me want to ask..
Is this the real purpose of the Alice Game or is it being subverted for an unknown reason? You would think that there are other ways to reach perfection. I still can't believe that a parent would want his/her daughters killing each other off, even if there is a reset at the end of the game.

Radiosity

2005-12-22, 10:50

I still can't believe that a parent would want his/her daughters killing each other off, even if there is a reset at the end of the game.

Yeah, that's what I thought as well, but then someone made a comment about 'Father's' approach to defective dolls. ie. he smashes them. If he considers each of the dolls to be defective (which he much do if he wants them to strive for perfection by becoming Alice) then exactly how attached is he likely to be to them?

He smashed that doll head without a second thought, and without any kind of a regretful look on his face. I imagine it's the same with the other dolls.

edit: gonna spoiler that for people that haven't watched the eps yet.

orion

2005-12-22, 12:47

chrno

2005-12-22, 12:50

Sousei reincarnated as a human....

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~kinghan/sousei.jpg

Now that's cool! This is a first seeing someone cosplay as 'Souseiseki'. I know there is a professional cosplayer who did 'Shinku'. It was shown in a past issue of 'Newtype USA'. I forget her name but they always have a section on her cosplaying as favorite characters.

Radiosity

2005-12-22, 13:10

:nono:
You don't know if Enju is Father. We all assume so because he knows of the Alice game ,brings partial life into some dolls and is blond. Besides, I have faith in the anime depiction of caring parents. :D

Enju could be the stoic type. He did put the doll face in a bag before smashing it to bits. (He wasn't looking at its face.) So this could mean some emotions are present.

True, I am somewhat assuming that Enju is father, so I could be wrong :)

As for putting the face in a bag first, that's standard practice when smashing something like that - it merely stops bits flying all over the place. I doubt there was any particular symbolism attached to it.

edit: forgot to mention, that Souseiseki cosplay rocks :D Very cute indeed. I'd love to see Suiseiseki more though (she's my second favourite so I guess that's not surprising).

Owaranai Destiny

2005-12-22, 23:13

True, I am somewhat assuming that Enju is father, so I could be wrong :)

As for putting the face in a bag first, that's standard practice when smashing something like that - it merely stops bits flying all over the place. I doubt there was any particular symbolism attached to it.

edit: forgot to mention, that Souseiseki cosplay rocks :D Very cute indeed. I'd love to see Suiseiseki more though (she's my second favourite so I guess that's not surprising).

I don't really think there are many other characters that can be introduced this late in the series. Either Father is dead or else he is someone that has already been shown thus far.

And yeah, I agree on the part about the cosplaying Souseiseki. ^^

Scribble

2005-12-23, 06:14

Radiosity

2005-12-23, 08:33

Hah, now that would be a plot twist. Jun turns out to be father, but it won't happen for years, and when it does we get loads of weird quantum space-time mumbo-jumbo about him travelling through time and stuff :D Pure hokum awesomeness.

orion

2005-12-23, 09:32

Father doesn't have to be in that place. For all we know, he could be somewhere in an N-field and only Alice can get access to him physically. You know similar to what happened in .hack.

His crying form was already introduced.

Owaranai Destiny

2005-12-23, 09:41

Who, except Enju, is most likely to be "Father" out fof the cast? They could even throw in a weird plot twist and make Jun "Father", which could set the path for a "everyone's alive again" happy ending =)

Now THAT would seriously be interesting, or he could simply the new "Father", as you call it, since his hands are deemed to be magical and was able to repair Shinku so easily in the first season. Sign of things, maybe...;)

ChainLegacy

2005-12-23, 18:23

Wasn't there a name for the special inheritor of the Father's powers, or the new keeper of the dolls?

Colonel-

2005-12-24, 21:29

^ Maestro?

Cloudy

2005-12-24, 22:41

True, I am somewhat assuming that Enju is father, so I could be wrong :)

As for putting the face in a bag first, that's standard practice when smashing something like that - it merely stops bits flying all over the place. I doubt there was any particular symbolism attached to it.

edit: forgot to mention, that Souseiseki cosplay rocks :D Very cute indeed. I'd love to see Suiseiseki more though (she's my second favourite so I guess that's not surprising).
The photo of the suiseiseki cosplayer is here.
http://www41.tok2.com/home/murakamo/Photo8/photo8.html

Cloudy

2005-12-24, 22:54

I will post another link since the link I posted just now didn't work here.
http://sgcafe.com/showthread.php?t=24103
Do remember to scroll down the page.

Blablabla

2005-12-25, 09:29

http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/list/tags/rozenmaiden
:cool:

PuRpLe CryStaL

2005-12-26, 08:26

Imaginary_num6er

2005-12-26, 09:34

Hey folks! Rozen Maiden Träumend OST will be released on 27 January 2006. I believe Megu's song will be included in the OST otherwise I would be very disappointed! Megu's seiyuu has done a great job singing that song ^_^ I also love the music in Episode 6 where Suigintou was flying in her N-Field & looking at the wall; recalling the time she battled with Shinku. I can't wait to get my hands on the OST :p

The song in ep6 with Gin flying is called "Kamp", and is on track 6 of the ED single: "光の螺旋律" (Hikari no Rasenritsu). With much debate between me and my friend, we assume the language of the song is in latin, not German nor Japanese. It would be nice if someone who knows German could verify if this is true.

On a side note, I'm planning to go to Comiket 69 on the 30th, which supposedly going to have Morinaga Rika (voice actor of Souseiseki) do some kind of cooking. :heh: The 29th has Saori Goto (voice actor of Barasuishou). Although, the voice actors of Shinku and Jun are going to have an event somewhere else also on the 30th, its nonetheless pretty ironic that the voice actors of Bara and Sousei are doing something..."out of character.":heh:

Jekyll

2005-12-26, 21:12

His crying form was already introduced.
That could have been an illusion, summoned by Barasuishou.

With much debate between me and my friend, we assume the language of the song is in latin, not German nor Japanese. It would be nice if someone who knows German could verify if this is true.
It's definitely not German. Also, it doesn't quite sound like Latin to me, but I could be wrong, as I know next to no Latin. ;)

kitsura

2005-12-28, 06:57

Rozen Maiden PS2 game to be out next Mar.
http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/1707/11333835573184oy5sn.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9877/11333836023185er0ai.jpg

Glass Cannon

2005-12-28, 15:26

Oh wow that game looks awesome!

I am in LOVE with this show!! <3 Souseiseki and Suiseiseki (I think that's how you spell them, lol)

Scribble

2005-12-28, 15:35

The game doesn't look like anything special from those screens. It reminds me of the Futakoi Alternative game.

If only they'd make a Rozen Maiden game ala Mai Hime's. Different art, and replace Kanaria and Barasuishou with two alternate maidens. That would be cool. An alternate universe type thing.

Glass Cannon

2005-12-28, 19:30

Nothing special or new, but man do I love these two <3

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/lain8/bg.jpg

Does anyone have any really pretty wallpapers/fanarts/anything of them or know where to get some? ^^

Bracken33

2005-12-29, 12:07

You could visit 4chan to get Rozen Maiden pics. Currently in anime and anime cute there are always some Rozen Maiden pics. Avoid the porn subboards...;)

A nice one I found:

http://www.bracken33.de/Bilder/Rozen/Rozendolls.jpg

For the Suisei Seki fan:

http://www.bracken33.de/Bilder/Rozen/Sui.jpg

Scribble

2005-12-29, 12:11

Does anyone have any really pretty wallpapers/fanarts/anything of them or know where to get some? ^^

Go to this board. It is an image board focused exclusively on Rozen Maiden and Touhou. http://www.pooshlmer.com/wakaba/wakaba.html

Glass Cannon

2005-12-29, 21:45

Imaginary_num6er

2005-12-30, 11:20

Ok, I just typed everything I heard (remembered) about the Morinaga Rika event, and my Comiket 69 experience all in Japanese on Notepad. No, there's no photos of her, nor within the Comiket area, and I plan to post some more photos + translate the stuff in English if i have time.

Currently trying to type it in the right format.

Muir Woods

2005-12-30, 13:53

Avoid the porn subboards...;)
Why so? Heh heh, to quote Homer Simpson, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of "hey-hey". As long as you're over legal age of 18 of course. :p

Anyways I guess were in a bit of a discussion dry spell due to the lack of RM episodes previous weeks (and for another two weeks). Maybe we can re-invigorate some conversation with images (like we did before). I come bearing not RM fan arts, but RM miscellaneous images. Those of you who frequents 4chan will probably have seen them, but I'll post here anyways for some who haven't.

"My precious" (http://www.members.shaw.ca/Muir_Woods/Pictures/Gollum%20Suigintou.jpg)
You know, for most funny things, comedy, or humor, I grin. Rarely do I laugh out loud. But this image did the extraordinary; it cracked me up upon sight and made me laugh until my ribs hurt, and still gives me a few chuckles now after a period of exposure. No surprise considering my bias. However, after thinking about the image a bit and considering things said in this thread, it actually carries some truth, and it is that truth that is exaggerated in this image, which makes this image all the better/funnier. I can feel your exasperation, but forgive me Suigintou fans.

Having Tea with Shinku (http://www.members.shaw.ca/Muir_Woods/Pictures/Tea%20with%20Shinku.jpg)
I do drink tea with regularity. Now, I drink tea with the presense of Shinku. Yes, that is me peacefully drinking Oolong tea with Shinku. I just took this picture last night. Tell me folks, what's beyond obsession? When I spend the bulk of my free conscious mind pondering about Shinku. When I dream about Shinku. When I feel incomplete without Shinku. When my love for her is 100% mental, and 0% lust. I haven't been this deep "into" (past appreciation, past admiration, past obsession) a fictional character since Humbert Humbert of Lolita (who, I take as sort of a role model). I have yet to find the explanation in my psychology lectures. 4chan couldn't answer this. Maybe you guys can.

BakaRanger

2005-12-30, 15:07

Just some random speculation and thoughts.

After Jun's conversation with the dollmaker about destroying those dolls that don't come out how the builder wanted, I started to wonder about this Alice Game. It is promoting the destruction of Father's beloved dolls. If they didn't turn out how he wanted them to, wouldn't he had just destroyed them when he built them?

I think Jun was trying to hint at this when he tried to talk to his wayward freeloading doll why she shouldn't fight.

But this being the case, where did the Alice Game come from? How do the dolls all know about it? Shinku has no memory of talking to "father", just his warm presence. So she couldn't have heard it from him. Is this a case of everyone taking a story they heard as true without verifying it's truthfullness for themselves? What I'm getting at is, could it had been started by someone other then "father" with some agenda such as Rabbit man?

Or does it have a completely different point then the dolls think? Perhaps there is a secret game behind the game. The point being not to just rip apart each other apart to get their Roza Mysticas but rather to grow in their love/heart. It seems to me that whatever "father" was after, it couldn't be just the collection of Roza Mystica since he could have built a doll with all of them in the first place.

I guess what I'm getting at is there has to be some sort of plot twist as I'm not buying this Highlander's "There can be only one" as the end result of the plot.

Akuma-sama

2005-12-30, 19:37

Bracken33

2005-12-30, 19:49

Links were broken by the time I got them =(

And thanks for that link Scribble! I appreciate it!

Hmmm, I can see the pics.

And yes thank you, nice board Scribble.

I do drink tea with regularity. Now, I drink tea with the presense of Shinku. Yes, that is me peacefully drinking Oolong tea with Shinku. I just took this picture last night. Tell me folks, what's beyond obsession? When I spend the bulk of my free conscious mind pondering about Shinku. When I dream about Shinku. ...

Of course I agree. Shinku is the best Rozen Maiden doll (though I am not this obsessed by far).

The most comparable thing might be a crush for your favourite pop star. It is a bit peculiar me thinks :D, but ok.

kj1980

2005-12-30, 23:03

Tell me folks, what's beyond obsession?

When you spend 102,900 yen to adopt a Shinku limited edition SuperDollfie at this year's Dollpa14. http://www.volks.co.jp/jp/event/dolpa14/item_sd_shinku.html

It was either go and buying this, or Comike. I chose the latter.

But at least I got my hands on Yujin's Suiseiseki (http://hinatatiki.web.infoseek.co.jp/gangu5/hina_suiseiseki.html) before it ran out, and I already pre-ordered my Suigintou (http://animage.simpleplan.jp/item012.html) from Animage.

Chronissz

2005-12-31, 02:14

When you spend 102,900 yen to adopt a Shinku limited edition SuperDollfie at this year's Dollpa14. http://www.volks.co.jp/jp/event/dolpa14/item_sd_shinku.html

It was either go and buying this, or Comike. I chose the latter.

But at least I got my hands on Yujin's Suiseiseki (http://hinatatiki.web.infoseek.co.jp/gangu5/hina_suiseiseki.html) before it ran out, and I already pre-ordered my Suigintou (http://animage.simpleplan.jp/item012.html) from Animage.

I always loved that Suiseiseki, it would be nice if they continued production of it, but that Shinku doll needs some work, especially for that price. Her face is just all wrong, im guessing it wasnt specifically designed to be Shinku, but rather the closest thing they had.

kj1980

2005-12-31, 04:05

I always loved that Suiseiseki, it would be nice if they continued production of it, but that Shinku doll needs some work, especially for that price. Her face is just all wrong, im guessing it wasnt specifically designed to be Shinku, but rather the closest thing they had.

It's a Volks Super Dollfie, that why they are born like that. If I am going to willing to spend over 90,000 yen to adopt a premium doll, I would gladly accept such beauty.

Not using illogical terms, these dolls are of premium quality - a very minor and niche market. However, as they are carefully made and crafted they are extremely expensive. You can read more about them here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26959
http://www.volks.co.jp/en/

Ugh. It's phrases like these that inhibits me from graduating being an otaku...

NaNash|

2005-12-31, 04:10

When you spend 102,900 yen to adopt a Shinku limited edition SuperDollfie at this year's Dollpa14. http://www.volks.co.jp/jp/event/dolpa14/item_sd_shinku.html

It was either go and buying this, or Comike. I chose the latter.

But at least I got my hands on Yujin's Suiseiseki (http://hinatatiki.web.infoseek.co.jp/gangu5/hina_suiseiseki.html) before it ran out, and I already pre-ordered my Suigintou (http://animage.simpleplan.jp/item012.html) from Animage.

I dun mean any disrespect but the Shinku looks horrible

kj1980

2005-12-31, 04:15

I dun mean any disrespect but the Shinku looks horrible

Probably just a difference in likes then. In my opinion, that Shinku SD looks absolutely great, even more so in her red goth-loli dress.

Now if they would only make a Souseiseki one... (I could care less about Hina-Ichigo).

Cloudnine

2005-12-31, 05:12

Too bad the suitcase isn't an accessory.

DaFool

2005-12-31, 12:37

Having Tea with Shinku (http://www.members.shaw.ca/Muir_Woods/Pictures/Tea%20with%20Shinku.jpg)
I do drink tea with regularity. Now, I drink tea with the presense of Shinku. Yes, that is me peacefully drinking Oolong tea with Shinku. I just took this picture last night. Tell me folks, what's beyond obsession? When I spend the bulk of my free conscious mind pondering about Shinku. When I dream about Shinku. When I feel incomplete without Shinku. When my love for her is 100% mental, and 0% lust. I haven't been this deep "into" (past appreciation, past admiration, past obsession) a fictional character since Humbert Humbert of Lolita (who, I take as sort of a role model). I have yet to find the explanation in my psychology lectures. 4chan couldn't answer this. Maybe you guys can.

Actually that is the supposed holy grail of perfected love. It is the appreciation of the iconic Madonna character. It's what drives knights to seek the impossible, and artists to strive their best to capture. If only real-world women seek mental love instead of lust love then they are guaranteed absolute fidelity. If a character, fictional or otherwise, becomes the object of mental love, that character will remain an ideal in someone's heart.

Since love of whatever form makes people exhibit the same symptoms as addicts of crack cocaine, I'd say no problem with it, since it's mental anyway. I have yet to focus some energized form of mental love to God, but unlike anime characters, God is harder to characterize, thus it's still very difficult to me.

PuRpLe CryStaL

2006-01-01, 00:07

Hey folks! I'm looking for the raw version of this screenshot (http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9844/strawberryichigo7hv.jpg) that has a dimension of 640 by 480. I wanted a non-animated shot of that Hina's pic without the text. I tried to remove the text with Paint but it turned out disastrous. Besides that, I don't know how to use Photoshop too :( Hence I really hope someone could help me by providing me that screenshot without the text if you have the raw series. The screenshot is taken from Episode 1. Arigatou gozaimasu ^_^

Best Rgds
Claudine

kj1980

2006-01-01, 01:41

kitsura

2006-01-01, 10:21

When you spend 102,900 yen to adopt a Shinku limited edition SuperDollfie at this year's Dollpa14. http://www.volks.co.jp/jp/event/dolpa14/item_sd_shinku.html

It was either go and buying this, or Comike. I chose the latter.

But at least I got my hands on Yujin's Suiseiseki (http://hinatatiki.web.infoseek.co.jp/gangu5/hina_suiseiseki.html) before it ran out, and I already pre-ordered my Suigintou (http://animage.simpleplan.jp/item012.html) from Animage.
I preordered the Suigintou too since its still affordable but I wonder if my payment will be accepted since I'm transferring from an overseas bank. Just too bad they don't accept credit cards otherwise payment will be so much easier.

Muir Woods

2006-01-01, 13:51

Actually that is the supposed holy grail of perfected love. It is the appreciation of the iconic Madonna character. It's what drives knights to seek the impossible, and artists to strive their best to capture. If only real-world women seek mental love instead of lust love then they are guaranteed absolute fidelity. If a character, fictional or otherwise, becomes the object of mental love, that character will remain an ideal in someone's heart.

Since love of whatever form makes people exhibit the same symptoms as addicts of crack cocaine, I'd say no problem with it, since it's mental anyway. I have yet to focus some energized form of mental love to God, but unlike anime characters, God is harder to characterize, thus it's still very difficult to me.
Interesting, that could be it: "perfect love". Now I have an urge to learn more about this "perfect love" in psychology, in an effort learn more about myself.

When you spend 102,900 yen to adopt a Shinku limited edition SuperDollfie at this year's Dollpa14. http://www.volks.co.jp/jp/event/dolpa14/item_sd_shinku.html

It was either go and buying this, or Comike. I chose the latter.

But at least I got my hands on Yujin's Suiseiseki (http://hinatatiki.web.infoseek.co.jp/gangu5/hina_suiseiseki.html) before it ran out, and I already pre-ordered my Suigintou (http://animage.simpleplan.jp/item012.html) from Animage.

I've said this in a dollfie thread before the hack incident. I'd purchase it if I weren't a starving university student. To pay for my car insurance so I can get to school, or order a Shinku SuperDollfie. Hmm, tough choices. My main priority in life now is my education, and my love for Shinku takes a second seat. In numerous more years after I graduate (and get my Master's or PhD) and when I get a better job (hopefully as an astronomer), that Shinku Dollfie will be in my bed. As for now, that Dollfie remains out of reach.

gonzo

2006-01-02, 08:59

Probably just a difference in likes then. In my opinion, that Shinku SD looks absolutely great, even more so in her red goth-loli dress.

Now if they would only make a Souseiseki one... (I could care less about Hina-Ichigo).

They should not.

I am very disappointed by Volks' Shinku. IMHO, it's the worst version I have ever seen (however, I don't want to offend those who like that look). A really well designed Shinku (again, my opinion) is displayed on

http://hpcgi1.nifty.com/marumu/x.cgi?h=doll

Just click Shinku or Suiginto (Kanji!) below "Super Dollfie"/"Rozen Maiden" in the left frame. Upto now, I haven't found any hint to marumu's dolls in this forum.

Having seen these SDs I had been hoping that Volks would produce a Shinku (I even wrote an email to Volks, expressing my desires, but they did not reply). Usually, Volks does an excellent job. But this time? No, that princess of ugliness has no resemblance to the Shinku I am used to. Red roses accessories? No: they should be pink! The colour of the eyes is wrong. The facial expression lacks every feature of Shinku. And so on ...

(There is only one problem remaining: marumu is completely in japanese, there seems to be nothing english ... that needs lots of translation, and my vestigial knowledge of japanese is nearly extinct).

Greetz, Gonzo

JHawkNH

2006-01-04, 16:34

that Shinku Dollfie will be in my bed.
I'm sorry, but this phrase can be just taken soooo wrong...:heh:

roro

2006-01-04, 22:48

gonzo

2006-01-05, 03:28

hm. I really like the volks shinku dollfie... personally, I think it fits the image in my mind of if she were an actual doll, what she'd look like. (compared to an anime doll version of her). ^_^ Ah if only I had the money to spare..

You are right. Volks Shinku does look like an actual doll, and maybe that's my problem. The Volks dollfies are too close to realistic. In my opinion, Shinku should remain sort of idealized, eventually abstract. That's why I prefer the anime version (and marumu, of course).

Anyway, a matter of taste.

kitsura

2006-01-05, 08:14

gonzo

2006-01-05, 09:53

This is a picture of a set of custom dolls that someone posted here before the great forum hack. It looks better than the Volks dollfie mainly because its a custom piece done from scratch while the Volks one probably just used a generic dollfie that most resembled Shinku and added on the costume for it.
http://metawire.org/~kitsura/1133108926870.jpg

Those are shown on the 'marumu'-page I mentioned above.

Thanks for the hint that these custom dolls might have been known before. I did not see them as I have found this thread too late.

BTW, these dolls are not fully done from scratch. They are based on Volks SD13 resp SD. The heads are heavily modified - faces are completely remodelled with some kind of putty (??) - and the body parts are adapted to the estimated proportions of the anime dolls, i.e. legs shortened by some centimeters etc. Maybe my attempts to translate some of the descriptions have failed ...

Have a nice day,

gonzo

Bracken33

2006-01-05, 09:55

These dolls are really a way better than the Volk ones. Esspecially the Shinku one is great. It resembles the anime Shinku´s face perfectly.

PuRpLe CryStaL

2006-01-06, 09:48

This is cool. While browsing through the site, I have found out that we can expect a Rozen Maiden Träumend Character Song & Image Collage album to be released on 8 February 2006. Wow~ we have the dolls' seiyuus + characters' seiyuus coming together to record this album. I'm defnitely looking forward to it :D

PS: I'm so :upset: that no one is willing to help me with the Hina Ichigo's (http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9844/strawberryichigo7hv.jpg) screenshot. So disappointed :(

Rgds
Claudine

Jekyll

2006-01-06, 10:30

PS: I'm so :upset: that no one is willing to help me with the Hina Ichigo's (http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9844/strawberryichigo7hv.jpg) screenshot. So disappointed :(
kj1980 postet one, but it's gone. I shall make a new one:
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2851/hinahanamaru1ig.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hinahanamaru1ig.jpg)

Xellos-_^

2006-01-06, 12:57

What happen to the series anyone know? There doesn't seem to be any new Episode discussion and I can't find any raws.

Jekyll

2006-01-06, 13:11

The next episode is scheduled for 2006-01-12. Christmas/end of year break or something. :eyebrow:

kj1980

2006-01-06, 13:41

What happen to the series anyone know? There doesn't seem to be any new Episode discussion and I can't find any raws.

Gee, people can't be patient nowadays. It's the season of year-end TV specials with irregular programming. Rozen Maiden is on a hiatus until January 12th.

PuRpLe CryStaL

2006-01-07, 02:40

kj1980 postet one, but it's gone. I shall make a new one:
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2851/hinahanamaru1ig.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hinahanamaru1ig.jpg)

Arigatou Nano :D Now I can transfer Hina's screenshot to convert it to my cell phone's wallpaper ^_^
*Gives Jekyll chocolate cookies*

Rgds
Claudine

Streetor

2006-01-07, 02:43

What happen to the series anyone know? There doesn't seem to be any new Episode discussion and I can't find any raws.

The series has been unfortunately cancelled due to an angry mob of zealot anti-doll fundamentalists storming the studio.

The people that survived have been so traumatized that anytime they see a doll, they go into convulsions.

Imaginary_num6er

2006-01-07, 08:14

Probably, most people have forgotten by now, that I went to Comiket 69 to see the Morinaga Rika event on Dec. 30th 2005. I've done what I could to remember her speech at the event (since any photography or recording was strictly forbidden), and I have the Japanese summary of what she said here (http://www.geocities.com/jmm314/comiket69.html).

Now, since ep10 is comming in a few days, I'm not really motivated to translate my summary into English unless, there's an overwhelming amount of people wanting a translation. Furthermore, according to:

This is cool. While browsing through the site, I have found out that we can expect a Rozen Maiden Träumend Character Song & Image Collage album to be released on 8 February 2006. Wow~ we have the dolls' seiyuus + characters' seiyuus coming together to record this album. I'm defnitely looking forward to it :D

Rgds
Claudine

there may be a possibility that the event is recorded somewhere, or that it might be a bonus feature on a future DVD volume.

(BTW, I've been searching 2ch for the past 3 WEEKS and I still haven't got any new news on a 3rd season, the Morinaga Rika event, and ep10.)

kitsura

2006-01-08, 13:20

What happen to the series anyone know? There doesn't seem to be any new Episode discussion and I can't find any raws.
What Streetor says is true. Rozen Maiden has been cancelled due to low viewership. :(

Xellos-_^

2006-01-08, 14:35

What Streetor says is true. Rozen Maiden has been cancelled due to low viewership. :(

Too bad. So thats why i am hearing of a Hentai version of the show. I guess the studio wnats to recoup thier loss anyway possible :eyebrow:

Black_Sharingan

2006-01-08, 18:19

Too bad. So thats why i am hearing of a Hentai version of the show. I guess the studio wnats to recoup thier loss anyway possible :eyebrow:

WTH? It hasn't been cancelled:

http://www.designchronicle.com/memento/archives/rmaiden_traumend_ep9.html

According to that site, the series is on hold until this Thursday.

melange

2006-01-08, 19:19

WTH? It hasn't been cancelled:

http://www.designchronicle.com/memento/archives/rmaiden_traumend_ep9.html

According to that site, the series is on hold until this Thursday.
Well they were kinda just being sarcastic :heh:

Xellos-_^

2006-01-08, 19:29

Black_Sharingan

2006-01-08, 19:38

*gives Black_Sharingan a sucker of the month award :D

Hope you enjoy the loli-pop it is cherry flavor :p

Personally, I like chocolate but oh well :P

*sucks*

kitsura

2006-01-08, 21:18

Goes to show people don't read the posts. Go back a few pages and all the announcements you hope to find have already been posted by someone.

Thewanderer

2006-01-09, 16:17

Goes to show people don't read the posts. Go back a few pages and all the announcements you hope to find have already been posted by someone.
I was starting to belive it, and I did read the posts...

Anyway, I'm still wondering about a 3rd season. I mean, how the heck will they get everything else done in 3 episodes?(especially if every other doll kicks teh bucket except Shinku)

Xellos-_^

2006-01-09, 16:44

Personally, I like chocolate but oh well :P

*sucks*

Why are you sucking on it? Shouldn't it be the other way around... errr...emmm :uhoh: n/m :twitch:

I was starting to belive it, and I did read the posts...

Anyway, I'm still wondering about a 3rd season. I mean, how the heck will they get everything else done in 3 episodes?(especially if every other doll kicks teh bucket except Shinku)

i would think my suggestion of Hentia ver so the company can recoup thier loss would be enough of a give away :eyebrow:

Odysseus

2006-01-09, 17:39

I was starting to belive it, and I did read the posts...

Anyway, I'm still wondering about a 3rd season. I mean, how the heck will they get everything else done in 3 episodes?(especially if every other doll kicks teh bucket except Shinku)

They rush it, like so many other shows :frustrated:

Chronissz

2006-01-09, 20:29

They rush it, like so many other shows :frustrated:

Do we know this yet? What about the manga, I have not bothered checking it out, but how much further along is it?

It really would be a shame for them to spend this long developing the story, then end it quickly in 3 episodes.

Tiamat's Disciple

2006-01-09, 22:41

Why are you sucking on it? Shouldn't it be the other way around... errr...emmm :uhoh: n/m :twitch:

i would think my suggestion of Hentia ver so the company can recoup thier loss would be enough of a give away :eyebrow:

Sadly but true there is talk of a hentai version

ayyo

2006-01-10, 00:38

Rozen Maiden XRATED

Dooken

2006-01-12, 17:03

Need. . . rozen. . . maiden. . .

Xellos-_^

2006-01-12, 17:25

Gee, people can't be patient nowadays. It's the season of year-end TV specials with irregular programming. Rozen Maiden is on a hiatus until January 12th.

It is the 12th, so wheres the new Ep :eyebrow: :upset:

kitsura

2006-01-12, 19:44

Don't think there will be a sub so soon.

Xellos-_^

2006-01-12, 19:48

Don't think there will be a sub so soon.

I am talking about raws and summaries.

TamaNeko

2006-01-12, 20:25

There's already a raw out, in the same place where it's always at. As for summaries, I always go to this (http://www.designchronicle.com/memento/) site here, which usually has one up in a day or two. Or maybe someone can summarize now, because it was a pretty important episode...

...because I'd like to know exactly why Hina just died like that. What happened? Did she just give up or what, because I always thought as long as Shinku was alive, she would be ok too. No more unyuu~... :(

And, well, pretty much all the past speculation has been confirmed in the end. Shirosaki is no doubt the Laplace Demon with that creepy transformation sequence, and Enju is indeed Rozen, and he's clearly aware of what's going on.

The best part of this episode though was Suigintou. It's too hard to hate her, even after what she did to Souseiseki. She really did it to help Megu, and her smile at the end was really lovely to see. Junk FTW!!! :D

melange

2006-01-12, 20:32

Episode 10 is pretty much a bridging episode... leading us into the endgame.

Aftermath of Ep9 - both Suiseiseki and Suigintou lunging for Souseiseki's Rosa Mystica but Gin takes it, absorbing it into herself. After some exchange of words Gin launches a wave of feathers at Shinku, some of which penetrate Shinku's barrier and cut her. Barasuishou advances on Shinku and co, saying they are weak but suddenly another wave of feathers rains down on all of them. Gin leaves, saying she won't act as Bara wants. The Laplace Demon appears and gives Shinku and co the chance to escape.

Souseiseki's 'funeral' - the dolls say their goodbyes to Souseiseki, closing her box. Jun attempts to ask Enju to repair Sou but Enju tells him even repaired the soul will not return.

Suigintou and Megu - Gin places Sou's Rosa Mystica into Megu's ring and it begins to glow. Bara appears and tells her that won't be enough, she needs all of them to save Megu. Gin says then she'll need Bara's as well but at that moment Megu wakes up. Bara retreats. Megu admires the glowing ring and say she likes it. Gin remarks that Megu is smiling and Megu thinks its because of the ring...

Hinaichigo's 'death' - Hina faints. Shinku tells Jun that she expected this to happen someday. Having been defeated Hina was not supposed to be left in the game. It was only Shinku's providing her with power that kept her alive. But now with Souseiseki's Rosa Mystica taken, Father will not allow this to continue. Hina is sent to spend her last moments with Tomoe... When Hina stops moving her Rosa Mystica appears in her N-field, and goes into Shinku...

Revelations - Shinku, Suiseiseki and Kanaria are warped from Hina's N-field to the dollshop where they meet a surprised Jun who had gone there himself earlier. Shopkeeper appears and repeats the same line the Laplace Demon said to Shinku in ep1 and turns into the Demon. Barasuishou also reveals herself and says the birth of Alice is soon at hand then turns and addresses 'Father'. Enju himself steps out at that, and Shinku also calls him 'Father'. 'Father smiles... eeriely.
---
It appears my (by now long deleted) suspicion about the shopkeeper being the Laplace Demon was true after all. And this ep seems to point even more in the 'Father' is a 'bastard' direction...

kitsura

2006-01-12, 20:52

Xellos-_^

2006-01-12, 20:55

Xellos-_^ >The raw was out 3.5hrs ago. I've downloaded it but don't have time to watch it yet because I'm at work. Funny you should be asking about raws here since I doubt the mods will allow posting of links.

I am not asking where i can find them, I have my own resources. But I am suprise that no-one posted anything about the Ep, even through it is the first Ep in 3 weeks.

kitsura

2006-01-12, 20:56

Maybe most haven't watched it yet. Relax its still fresh off the oven.

Xellos-_^

2006-01-12, 20:59

Maybe most haven't watched it yet. Relax its still fresh off the oven.

Now you done :D I just vision of steamy Sugintou scenes :naughty: and some hot baking action between shinku and bara :D

TamaNeko

2006-01-12, 22:02

Now you done :D I just vision of steamy Sugintou scenes :naughty: and some hot baking action between shinku and bara :D

Funny that you should mention that just now. :D

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5535/everyoneisgayforsuigintou0rj.jpg

Courtesy of Wakachan's Touhou board. :p

Kuro

2006-01-13, 00:06

To the people who haven't seen this episode... Download, but DO NOT watch. The end of the episode is probably one of the most climatic cliffhangers, and watching it will only result in misery for the next entire week. Instead, wait the next few weeks for the series to conclude, then watch on.

But to impatient people like me... Wow. This episode was one big painful tearjerker. Everything that happens in this episode is so thick, SO tense and so emotional that even when Hina acts as cute as she does, it does little to break the ice. In fact, I'm inclined to say that everything that Hina does in being her cute self only makes things even more tragic.

This entire episode just made me feel uneasy. It was one of the most tragic things to happen in anime history, even though you could see it coming from episodes away. When Jun took Hinaichigo to spend the day with Tomoe, I knew that it was more of a final wish instead of a solution (such as Tomoe being her medium again). The scene where you see Hinaichigo's N-field slowly beginning to dim was very symbolic as well, especially when Suiseiseki, Shinku and Kanaria were there to the last moment.

As for the ending, it seems most of the suspicions were right. Apparently the Enju owner is indeed the Lapross Demon (Rabbit) and the Blondie in the back was the father. In fact, even the last moment when he smiles eerily as he does, revealed what most people surmise of the father and his cruel game. However, I'm still going to give him the benefit of the doubt, as with the exception of this scene, he looked more depressed, more under pressure than, so much as he was scheming and conniving ways for his creations to hurt each other. If anything, Lapross seems to be the true villain of the series, while Father is somebody who can easily be misinterpreted. I have a feeling that when he said "As long as the love is still there, a doll will never truly die" will play a major role in the climax of the series.

And of course, the preview had Shinku-tachi (or what's left of them) battling against Barasuishou. Strangely, Suigintou wasn't present at all in the preview. I guess she'll be the wild card that even we won't be able to guesstimate on. Another major factor is Jun -- We don't really know everything there is to know of him. We know he can repair dolls magically, WITHOUT having to sow pieces together (like he did with Shinku) and that for a while, he has been working with Father after hours.

Rozen Maiden ~Träumend~ is, without a doubt, my favourite current anime.

Flo

2006-01-13, 02:08

watched RAW ep 10 and from the looks of things...

Kanaria maybe next...noooooo~ ;.;

Kurogane_Shiroikaze

2006-01-13, 03:34

Episode 10 Summary and Screencaps. (http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/01/13/rozen-maiden-traumend-10/)

Big cliffhanger this episode.

Somehow though, I didn't really feel sad when Hina stopped moving.

EDIT: Gomenasai, for forgetting to put in the spoiler tags. *bows down in regret*

PastPrime

2006-01-13, 14:45

Since Barasuishou said that it would take all the Roza Mysticas to cure Megu, it would appear that, in the end, Suigintou will have to give up hers too, making Megu "Alice."

Kurogane_Shiroikaze

2006-01-13, 14:51

Since Barasuishou said that it would take all the Roza Mysticas to cure Megu, it would appear that, in the end, Suigintou will have to give up hers too, making Megu "Alice."

Barasuishou's only saying that to manipulate Suigintou into fighting seriously, I don't really think that the Roza Mystica's are going to help cure Megu.

Xellos-_^

2006-01-13, 19:11

Funny that you should mention that just now. :D

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5535/everyoneisgayforsuigintou0rj.jpg

Courtesy of Wakachan's Touhou board. :p

MORE MORE MORE :D

Now where do i get the rest of it :heh:

Muir Woods

2006-01-14, 03:53

Watched Chinese sub of episode 10.
The best part of this episode though was Suigintou. It's too hard to hate her, even after what she did to Souseiseki. She really did it to help Megu, and her smile at the end was really lovely to see. Junk FTW!!! :D
Oh, I must disagree in earnest. You say that as a Gin-fan. And I say this as a Shinku fanatic: My mind understands, but my heart is forever cold and unfeeling to Suigintou. My enmity against her is and will remain a constant.

Anyways, Sousei's death struck Shinku hard enough for her composure to break. Just shows how deeply she cares for her fellow sisters/friends. Although, Hina's death packed a stronger emotional wallop than Sousei's. The final exchange of emotions between Hina (and her self-realization of her impending end) and Tomoe; that scene was truly poignant. Upon both dolls' deaths, Shinku said a phrase to the effect "...for sure we'll meet again". I wonder what she means...I will ponder about her words.

In the episode preview, in a very brief scene, I noticed what looked to be the blades of Sousei's scissors, opening up to reveal a seemingly angry Suisei below. If Suigintou absorbed Sousei's rosa mystica, does that mean Suigintou has possession and can use Sousei's scissors? It would make sense that Suisei, after grieving, would become angry and want to exact revenge on Suigintou...another reason, another battle, and another step closer to Alice...

Imaginary_num6er

2006-01-14, 10:24

Ok, I watched ep10 and I want to say a few things about the plot:

Ok, I'm sure most of the people here already know the plot of ep10 so, my main argument would be about plot inconsistancies.

Inconsistancy #1:
What's Barasuishou's purpose/aim in the Alice Game?

Obviously, if she's a Rozen Maiden doll then, she should be doing all that she can do to become Alice right? Clearly, from what you could see from ep10, she didn't even move when Sousei's Roza Mystica was floating in the air. From what I heard from a numerous places and 2ch, there could be a number of reasons why this so.

-Reason 1: Although, she specifically states that she's the "The 7th Rozen Maiden doll", she could be lying.
Enju is technically her "father" so, there is no real reason for her to participiate in the Alice Game if she's not really a Rozen Maiden doll.
-Reason 2: Despite having so much power, she already decided that her role in the Alice Game is to speed up its process.
This would make sense if it were direct orders from "Father."

Inconsistancy #2:
Is Enju really "Father?"

Now, this would be a serious plot inconsistancy if this were to be true. If you remember season 1 and in the manga, "Father" is only interested in Alice and would not talk to anyone else. Furthermore, the dolls DO NOT KNOW the face of "Father." Therefore, if Enju was actually "Father" then, this would be inconsistant to the purpose of the Alice Game.

-Reason: As stated previously, the dolls do not really know that Enju is actually their "Father" until,
Bara states: "Father" and this could only mean Enju as Bara's father, not Shinku's.

Inconsistancy #3:
Hina's delayed "retire" from the Alice Game.

Ok, this would probably the main reason why I decided to post this reply on the forum. The main inconsistancy here would be that, if Hina were to "retire" due to losing in season 1, shouldn't Gin also automatically lose also?? Moreover, it is possible that Kanaria could also qualify as "losing" right? Well, this inconsistancy could be "corrected" in like ep12 if Shinku gets Gin's and Kana's Roza Mystica in addition, to the ones Gin already has due to this reason. Obviously, this would suck, but it would be a perfect way to cram everything into the remaining 2 episodes.

Sidenote:
Did Shinku plan this all out from season 1?

This is a hypothesis that I heard from 2ch, but it is possible that Shinku could have planned all of this out:

If you remember, it was Shinku who told Hina to challange her to the Alice Game in season 1.
Shinku made Suisei her ally, instead of telling her to go to Sousei's place ealier in season 1.
In ep1 of RMT, instead of accepting Suigintou's revenge, she was nice to her to avoid uneccessary conflict. The "uneccessary" here is to make Gin less hostile towards her, not to mention, being uncertain that she could win again
In Traumend, Sousei convinces Shinku to discuss about the 7th doll. Hearing Shinku's reasoning that "she doesn't want to lose any more sisters," Sousei could have just wanted to test Shinku's determination in ep8, and Shinku simply cared less.
Later, when Kana came out, she didn't take her Roza Mystica since it would cause everyone else to go against her plus, by doing this, Kana is less hostile towards her.
In ep9, knowing that Gin cannot attack her, it could have been that Shinku didn't care who won, or just wanted Gin to win since she cannot really attack her compaired to Sousei who probably would.
After seeing how strong Gin became in ep10, Shinku could have reasoned to cut the power for Hina, and blame it on "Father" (Jun could have known no better).
In ep10, Shinku looks at her watch DESPITE the TV showing their favorite show: Detective KunKun. She should not know when Hina runs out of power unless, she specifically "calculated it into her plans."

Now, if Shinku convinces Suisei to give her Roza Mystica to her in ep11, my hypothesis of Shinku being evil would be pretty much written in stone.

Other Rozen Maiden Trivia:
-JUN KUN = UN + JUNK--->Jun has the power to "un-junk" dolls.
-In the ED, the words: MERCURY LAMPE or ROZENKRISTALL don't show up.
-In the ED, there's a picture of Shinku's balljoints being blurred-->not being a doll anymore?-->Alice
-Unwritten rule that whenever a chacter that plays as the villian does something good, they die immediatly soon after.
-Sousei could possibly be evil also since, in the Drama CD talks about Jun as being: "Does nothing all day, and looks like a failure in life." (「一日中何もしないでゴロゴロしたり本当にダメな人間にしか見えなかった」) Or, in the end of season 1 saying that "he's the worst."「あいつ最低」. Lastly, when they talk about Jun being in the restroom longer than usual, you could take Sousei's "Yeah, its a pretty confortable place in there," as sarcasm to Shinku for mistaking what it is in season1.
-Enju is the name of a tree.
-Jun doesn't know Suigintou came back, even up till ep 10.

Although, there are a lot of predictions of the ending out there, I will mention them another time.

grey_moon

2006-01-15, 15:40

*sniffle*

What a horrible feeling when one of my favorite character's get killed off, but it is worse when another one dies just the episode before hand. Right now I feel that Rozen is a right bas**rd, but I guess I will just have to wait until I find out more before making any firm judgements about him.

I thought Jun passing Hina over to Tomoe was a very nice gesture, but in terms of the writers building up a sad moment I thought that it was very well done because of the whole Tomoe and Hina relationship.

Come on Jun have your hidden powers awaken and revive Souseiseki and Hina. Then create some Chucky dolls and sik em on that twisted father of theirs...

Farewell Hina, I hope to see you back again before the end of this series...

Sadly but true there is talk of a hentai version

That is so wrong on so many levels...

ChainLegacy

2006-01-15, 19:03

Episode 10 was the most depressing of the two series. It was like watching an innocent little kid die, really sad..

Thewanderer

2006-01-15, 22:17

Episode 10 was the most depressing of the two series. It was like watching an innocent little kid die, really sad..
It was pretty sad. Though a lot less violent than how I thought she'd go...

(now for the others...:upset: )

ayyo

2006-01-15, 23:28

Food for Thought
Rozen Maidens are dolls, yet they can cry, blush and eat food (where does it go? but thats another topic). Yet do they feel 'warm'? I can't believe Jun never commented on this if the dolls feels icy and stiff or warm, especially since he touched/holded a few when they were emotionally stung.

Anyway

First, who is Laplace? He is certainly not a doll or human, I think. So what is he? A creation of Father? The physical form of Father's will? A creation of Barasuishou? Is he a servant or a has his own free will and purpose? Is he Barasuishou's medium?

Next, what IS Barasuishou's intention/purpose? She seems to be working along with both Laplace and 'Father'. Is Father working with her becase she is the youngest and last who was made after the others seperated from Father, so he wishes to pick her to help to speed up the process? Is she under anyones orders to act that way she does aka not finish them off despite thousands of openings?

Enju or 'Father' commented that imperfect dolls get *smash by a hammer*. So is that why he just wants to use one of the Alice Maidens to quickly speed up the process of getting Alice? Does he even care at all about the other dolls or is he really just a bastard who cries at night because he wants his Alice?

Also this brings up that maybe after 6 failures, he figured he should just create a Rozen Maiden made to hunt the others and not be 'sisterly' like the others. So maybe he is Barasuishou's medium instead? But then this draws back t qestion of what Laplace is.

Ah, and something came to my mind why Father revived Suigintou. Its not because he cares the 'junk' got 'junkd', but because only the winner could take the Roza Mystica and Shinku wasn't about to take hers anytime soon, so he revived in hopes of someone else defeating her, possibly Barasuishou, which would explain why she haven't seriously attacked yet and just uses Suigintou's devoution to beat the other dolls.

And final thought, Jun have kind of been place from the main spotlight for some time now. One way or another, Jun is going to influence the battle again. In fact, Jun might very well be the current incarnation of Father, but thats unlikely and would create massive plot holes, so scratch that.

With only two episodes left, The next battle is going to be the last one since 'Father' is involved, if not, at the most, one more.

My odds are: (for fun XD)
Shinku becoming Alice 1:6
Suigintou becoming Alice 1:30
Barasuishou becoming Alice 1:2
Suiseiseki/Souseiseki/Hina/Kanaria becoming Alice 1:1000
No one becoming Alice 1:3
Alice ends up not being perfect or ideal and Father goes apeshit 1:3
Alice loses her former memories 1:2
Alice becomes the final boss 1:2
Everyone except Barasuishou gets revived at the end 1:3
A Mai-Hime is pulled 1:2

'Father' being real Father 1:2
'Father' being a fake 1:10
Father dies 1:5

Laplace is a part of Father 1:4
Laplace is a part of Barasuishou 1:6
Laplace is made by Father 1:6
Laplace is made by Barasuishou 1:5
Laplace is a seperate entity 1:4

Kanaria backstabbing the others 1:4
Kanaria dying 1:3
Suiseiseki fights Suigintou 1:4
... and loses her Rosa Mystica 1:2
Suiseiseki dying 1:3
Shinku fighting Suigintou 1:1.2
... and loses but doesn't lose her Rosa Mysticas or atleast not her own 1:2
Shinku loses her Rosa Mystica 1:13
... but Jun brings her soul back 1:1.1
Barasuishou fights Suigintou 1:1.2
... and wins her Rosa Mysticas 1:1.2
Souseiseki getting revived without her soul before the end 1:3
Souseiseki getting revived with her soul before the end 1:100

Megu's condition worsen despite getting a Rosa Mystica 1:2
Megu dies 1:5
Tomoe won't appear again until the end where she happily reunites with Hina 1:3
Jun's sister won't appear again until the end 1:4

Jun vs Enju/'Father' 1:1.1
... It will be physical 1:3
... Jun will go philosophic and question Father 1:2
Jun vs Laplace 1:8
Jun takes one for the team and recieves a blow from
...Barasuishou 1:3
...Suigintou 1:2
...it was a near fatal blow 1:2
...it was a fatal blow 1:20
Shinku goes to SEED mode after said blow 1:4
Jun will save the day 1:2

By the end, Jun will regard Rozen Maidens, or specificly Shinku as:
'Demons' 1:3
Just dolls 1:4
More then just dolls, they're YOUR dolls (to Father) 1:4
More then just dolls, they're living beings 1:6
More then just dolls, they're MY dolls 1:12
More then just dolls, they're my friends 1:5
More then just dolls, they're family 1:3
No, more then just friends, they're my 1:15
Realizes his harem consists of his sister and dolls 1:5

Shinku thinks ____ is most important at the end
Her sisters 1:3
Jun 1:6
Father/Being Alice 1:25
Kun-kun 1:1.005

Kun-kun appearing once more before the end 1:1000
Kun-kun appearing at the happy ending 1:1.2

Guido

2006-01-16, 01:02

I'm not minding much at all about the last outcome, but I won't stop crying until the very end of Traümend.

Sousei-seki and Hina-Ichigo's sleep 'deaths' broke my heart, but to tell you that I do not hold ill wishes against Suigin-Tou.

She has begun to open the door of her heart to the sick girl, whose name I don't recall. I imagine that she's now attempting to become 'Alice' for that girl's sake in order to heal her with all the seven Rosa Mysticas when gathered, and not anymore for the vain desire to become Father's perfect girl.

The end of the episode leaves more questions than answers:

1. Is Enju Father? or is he Bara-Suishou's medium?

I disagree with someone else who previously theorized that Bara-Suishou is not a real Rozen Maiden doll.

Anyways, Traümend cannot end in only twelve episodes given the timing. It will need a thirteenth one or else the plot will seem rush and confusing for the remaining episodes.

gonzo

2006-01-16, 02:13

Ok, I watched ep10 and I want to say a few things about the plot:

Ok, I'm sure most of the people here already know the plot of ep10 so, my main argument would be about plot inconsistancies.

Other Rozen Maiden Trivia:
-JUN KUN = UN + JUNK--->Jun has the power to "un-junk" dolls.

Although, there are a lot of predictions of the ending out there, I will mention them another time.

Maybe it's a nasty reply ... but: I cannot accept the chain of associations "JUN KUN -> UN JUNK".

Of course, this looks quite charming, and I was tempted to have a similar thought wrt Rozen Maiden (first season). But alas, such splitting into letters is totally "un-japanese". Besides the pronunciation (Jun-kun does not sound very similar to Junk-un) there is the fact that japanese is based on syllables. Ask japanese people to read "kana" in reverse and they will answer "naka", at least if they are not too much spoiled by so-called western languages. Anyway, it is NOT a japanese pun, but maybe wishful thinking of Rozen Maiden watchers instead. Sort of charming, as I meant above.

Greetings, Gonzo

Forever

2006-01-16, 06:22

Episode 10 was definitely a tearjerker..... BUt strange, no tears from me. I felt much sadder with Sousei instead.....

With this much stuff revealed, is there time to settle them all in 2 eps? I think not....

Anyway just to add the odds list

Jun X Tomoe 1:2
Jun X shinku (doll) 1:4
Jun X shinku (alice) 1:16
Jun X Suiseiseki (doll) 1:10
Jun X Other dolls (doll) 1:500
Jun X other dolls (alice) 1:1500
Jun X megu 1:200
Jun alone 1:3
Jun X father?! 1:250
Jun X his sister?!!! 1:1000

Shinku (alice) X father 1:3
Shinku X Kunkun 1:8968

Baras (alice) X father 1:7

Gin X megu 1:4
Gin X shinku 1:6
Gin X Father 1:8
Gin X shinku 1:18
Gin X Jun?! 1:500

other dolls x father 1:750

father X laplace 1:100

grey_moon

2006-01-16, 06:30

Probably don't need a spoiler :p

From what I have interpreted from series one and two, is that the dolls will have to fight and absorb each others Rosa Mysticas to become the perfect being...

Competitions are a fine way to discover who is the best in a group, but it depends on what u are testing. For example if I wanted to find out who was the fastest runner I would hold a sprinting contest. So the Alice game as it has been presented so far, seems to be based on who can kick the most arse... And if it is based just on who can win, I'm guessing extracurricular tactics such as taking out the others mediums would also give them an advantage.

So this Alice seems to be a person who can:

kick arse
put aside their feelings for each other
win at all costs

I dunno if absorbing each others Rosa Mysticas makes them perfect or wotnot, but the Alice game does seem to promote some of the worst aspects of human nature (although they are dolls...)

Maybe its a psychometric test and maybe they will be marked not on if they win, but how they got there...

BonBon

2006-01-16, 06:33

Episode 10 was the most depressing of the two series. It was like watching an innocent little kid die, really sad..

That's exactly how I felt! *Weeps*

Jekyll

2006-01-16, 12:36

Episode 10 was indeed pretty sad. Actually more so than the last one, for me.

Rozen Maidens are dolls, yet they can cry, blush and eat food (where does it go? but thats another topic). Yet do they feel 'warm'? I can't believe Jun never commented on this if the dolls feels icy and stiff or warm, especially since he touched/holded a few when they were emotionally stung.
My theory on the food stuff is that Rozen Maiden dolls contain some sort of perfect (no waste) matter to energy converter. This energy is then used for powering conventional movement (reducing the need to be rewinded and usage of the medium's power) and also for producing heat, which leads to the temperature part.
In episode two of the first season, Shinku told Jun to close the windows because it was chilly. This allows for the assumption that the dolls prefer (or even need to function correctly) a certain temperature. Thus, if they did not produce (and thus radiate) heat on their own, they would likely need a certain "heat up" period of lying in the sun, like some cold-blooded animals do. As such a thing was never mentioned and would be pretty inappropriate, it can be deduced that Rozen Maiden dolls are indeed 'warm'.
As for the stiffness, I'm not sure whether it might be worth mentioning, that (in episode one of the first season) Jun commented on Shinku being soft, while touching her face.

Barasuishou becoming Alice 1:2
But has not the balance of power shifted against her? Both Shinku and Suigintou acquired an additional Rosa Mystica and it seems like an additional Rosa Mystica means additional power. ;)

JHawkNH

2006-01-16, 13:27

****Very Wild Prediction Ahead****:heh:

1. Shinku Becomes Alice.

2. We find out that there have been Many Alice Games. (I am wondering if the memories of Suigintou vs Shinku during what looked like WW2, the episode that Suigintou was revived, were actual memories from a past Alice game that had been erased/blocked from their memories.)

3. Alice becomes the partner/wife of the current incarnation of Father. (In this case Jun. The father were saw in ep 10 was the previous reicaration of Father)

4. Alice gives the new father(Jun) the power to revive all the Rozen Maidens.

5. Alice is human and when see passes away in the future, all the dolls lose their memories again, and the Alice game starts all over again.

:twitch: Just some wild seculation, but it would make for an interesting twist.

P.S. Have the creators stated that there would be only 12 eps. everyone seems to assume that there will only be 12 because there was only 12 last season. Why couldn't they do the standard 13?

PastPrime

2006-01-16, 13:45

It looked to me like, in episode 10, the doll maker was about to tell Jun how to bring the souls back just before they switched scenes. So Jun may know how to bring them back now. As for Alice, I think that they are setting it up for Suigintou to be Alice by giving her something to fight for other than herself.

gonzo

2006-01-16, 16:06

Some additional thoughts about becoming Alice:

When Shinku had her arm torn off by Suigintou she said she could not become Alice anymore, because from that moment on she was a defective doll ("junk").

Therefore, any doll having defects will never become Alice. This rules out Barasuishou. She has at least a defective eye (whatever may be covered by the eyepatch). The eyes of the Seki-Twins are differently coloured, that's far from being perfect - ruled out. Hina Ichigo and Kanaria? Too childish to become Alice. Remain: Shinku and Suigintou. Is Gin now a complete doll? And if she is, why has she been completed? Such kind of perfection would then be possible for each of the dolls, sort of reanimation?

Shinku is the only doll, who nearly always stays calm, she knows nearly all about the Alice Game, and she has a watch. Why? The only other one with a conscienceness of time seems to be Gin.

Another thought about Shinku. In the first season there was a development. Jun and Shinku both became more human. Jun, because he began to leave his hikikomori-hermitage, and Shinku showing some emotions. There had even been a little touch of erotic tension between the two. In the second season there seems to be nearly no active participation of Jun, and Shinku is more or less sitting on a fence. Taking over the Roza Mystica she looked quite cold. What has happened to Shinku??

Besides that there are lots of hints pointing to some kind of reincarnation ...

Enju being "Father" is annoying. It does not fit into the gothic, i.e. victorian, style of the first scenes. And it does not fit to the WW2 memories. He is too young to have made the dolls. Again remaining: Laplace. What is the concept behind the role of Laplace? Should he be the "deus ex machina"-explanation for that huge heap of inconstiencies? Again annoying? I am not sure.

IMHO, those two final eps have to be stuffed with possible and impossible acts and explanations.

All we can do is sit and wait.

Swann

2006-01-16, 16:45

Finally, I have given up peeping and decided to post – :D !

Just thought I would add my predictions.

This won't be another Mai HiME (or I guess in way it will be). Come the end of eps12 all dolls will be alive. It was said that as long as a doll is loved it never dies and this series has made quite an effort in showing that every doll has the love and need of its master, except perhaps Barasuishou. The twist will be in how it happen: lets say a combination of Shinku giving up the Alice choice and Jun's magic fingers. Oh, at some point Suigin will lose a fight because she couldn't use her medium's powers (this scene is definitely coming if only because of how often it was pointed out that her master could die.)

Still don't like that they're closing this up with only two more episodes. Here's hoping for more.

gonzo

2006-01-16, 18:04

Finally, I have given up peeping and decided to post – :D !

It was said that as long as a doll is loved it never dies and this series has made quite an effort in showing that every doll has the love and need of its master, except perhaps Barasuishou. The twist will be in how it happen: lets say a combination of Shinku giving up the Alice choice and Jun's magic fingers. Oh, at some point Suigin will lose a fight because she couldn't use her medium's powers (this scene is definitely coming if only because of how often it was pointed out that her master could die.)

Still don't like that they're closing this up with only two more episodes. Here's hoping for more.

Nice ideas! Especially wrt the concept of love (it held for the clown in season 1). Shinku giving up is charming to.

Ok, there might be no twist anymore. But what should additional eps be good for? Season 3? Just now I imagine a new story with a disppointed Enju and that Laplace-Bunny. Laplace's revenge or: How Rozen Maiden saved the world. :D

If only my Japanese could be alive again! For now it is in Hina's state. I do like the subs, but they are of course coarse - and a japanese word has the property of being similar to a chamaeleon: It changes colour, flavour, taste and meaning according to the context. I am pondering over that translated word "soft" describing the surface of the dolls. Maybe it has the meaning of "soft AND warm". I cannot decide, because upto now I could not understand the word Jun used in ep1 of season 1 ... In Petopeto-san there had been a similar translation; but Petopeto is by far more difficult as every figure has its own dialect.

oyasuminanou.

kitsura

2006-01-16, 21:28

Xellos-_^

2006-01-16, 21:53

kitsura

2006-01-16, 22:47

But since the anime doesn't really follow the manga storyline (Souseiseki is evil in the manga) so its safe to say that the anime writers can do whatever they want.

Owaranai Destiny

2006-01-17, 11:30

Quite a nice episode, but a little too rushed. Too many revelations crammed into one episode (one flaw of many animes in my opinion). The drama wasn't too bad in episode 10 though. It was rather sad that Hina Ichigo left like that with such a scene...

Oh another note, shock after shock...First, we find out that the bespectacled man is Laplace, and suddenly we find out Enju is Father...And why exactly is he sorta on Barashuisho's and Laplace's side? What kind of conspiracy fo they have? Three more episodes...So I would expect explanations to fly in fast and hard, though the next episode looks more like a Maiden battle. While it seems impossible for Enju to seem to be Father due to the possible time lapse, it could be possible that he might be the descendant of the first 'Father' instead. It's a wild guess, but hey, at least it's speculation.

gonzo

2006-01-17, 16:26

Some extra thoughts:

How gets life into dolls? There are at least three ways.

(1) They have an artificial spirit. Interesting enough, the artificial spirits of the Rozen Maiden dolls can act free floating, independent of the dolls' bodies.

(2) They have Roza Mystica. This is bound to the body, it cannot be removed, but leaves the body, if the doll "dies".

These two variants are specific to Rozen Maiden. What is "death" to a Rozen Maiden? Loss of artificial spirit or loss of Roza Mystica? IMHO, Roza Mystica is not the concept of life but the concept of power ...

(3) Dolls have a soul. It is invisible. If lost, it might be gained back, under lucky circumstances. This kind of soul needs neither Roza M. nor Artificial S. Example: The clown at Jun's.

(4) Some dolls, e.g. Rozen Maiden, need winding. This is "mechanical life", sort of.

How gets life into Alice? If introduced only through Roza M. or Artifical S., we can expect not much more than a hyper-RozenMaiden. This would be a perfect girl doll, but never a perfect girl, because it will remain inhuman (whatever humanity may denote). As Shinku said: "Dolls are other than humans. They can seek for perfection."

Conclusion: Alice as the perfect girl is a contradiction in itself. So, wtf needs Alice? What is it good for? Is the Alice Game nothing else but a very special form of a robot soccer match?

Kuro

2006-01-17, 16:35

They should have just let Suigintou died at the end of episode 1 and left it as that. Pandering to fans has never turned out well in the end. Just look at what happened to Evangelion and Gundam Shit...oops I mean Seed Destiny after the creators decided to give in to fan feedback. My only prediction for the series is that it will all be revealed in episode 12 with hints in episode 11. Just by going to the official website and reading the super vague summary for episode 11 I can guess something spoilerish must be up (death of another doll).

I must disagree. Unlike Evangelion and GSD, Rozen Maiden is actually a good anime with good direction and writing. Have some faith. Worst case scenario I think, is that the story will end with a "satisfying" ending (as in, a happy one), but still leave plenty of room for more.

Everybody through FMP: TSR was going to end on a bad note, what with everything happening (much more than RMT has going ATM), but it actually did end pretty well. I expect the same from Rozen Maiden.

grey_moon

2006-01-17, 16:56

I must disagree. Unlike Evangelion and GSD, Rozen Maiden is actually a good anime with good direction and writing. Have some faith. Worst case scenario I think, is that the story will end with a "satisfying" ending (as in, a happy one), but still leave plenty of room for more.

Everybody through FMP: TSR was going to end on a bad note, what with everything happening (much more than RMT has going ATM), but it actually did end pretty well. I expect the same from Rozen Maiden.

I have to agree with you about all of your good points about Rozen Maiden, even with the death of one of my favorite characters I was deeply sadden, but not disappointed in the anime at all (I will of course hold final judgement on the last episode :p).

kitsura

2006-01-17, 19:27

kitsura

2006-01-17, 19:34

I must disagree. Unlike Evangelion and GSD, Rozen Maiden is actually a good anime with good direction and writing. Have some faith. Worst case scenario I think, is that the story will end with a "satisfying" ending (as in, a happy one), but still leave plenty of room for more.

Everybody through FMP: TSR was going to end on a bad note, what with everything happening (much more than RMT has going ATM), but it actually did end pretty well. I expect the same from Rozen Maiden.
I didn't say Rozen Maiden was bad overall. I think the inconsistency in storyline with the manga might be due to the fact that the manga writers (Peach-Pitt) didn't have a say in the story for the first season of the anime. At least for the second season they were consulted on the storyline. Other inconsistencies in character design and personalities still exist however but then they are minor issues.

Maids! Maids! Maids!

2006-01-17, 20:21

That episode packed a huge emotional wallop. A recap and the aftermath of the events of Episode 9 followed by more tragedy: it was tough to watch. Souseiseki had entered a moral gray area, and characters that do this have very short life spans in popular fiction. Her death wasn’t a huge surprise. Hina Ichigo was another story. Moving the chibi back with Tomoe was a great idea. I’m frequently moved more by characters’ reactions to events then the events themselves.

I don’t know if we saw a retcon or not (nor do I really care), but Suiseiseki has long been ambivalent about the Alice game. (I can’t recall if she was as ambivalent when she first appeared.) And there was just no way she was going to “junk” her sister. A previous victory left a very bad taste in Shinku’s mouth, and she appears to find the game morally reprehensible. I would expect Suiseiseki to be very angry next episode and far more willing to play the game than in the past. I’ve grown very, very fond of the character. Next episode may be really hard to take.

A lot of people get angry when an author kills off a well-developed character. For about ten or fifteen minutes, I just mourn them as I would a living person. I just get over it a lot quicker. And then I feel ridiculous.

grey_moon

2006-01-18, 02:34

I didn't say Rozen Maiden was bad overall. I think the inconsistency in storyline with the manga might be due to the fact that the manga writers (Peach-Pitt) didn't have a say in the story for the first season of the anime. At least for the second season they were consulted on the storyline. Other inconsistencies in character design and personalities still exist however but then they are minor issues.

I thought that s1 had a good story line, but then again I'm not following the manga...

Kuro

2006-01-20, 00:34

Well, I saw episode 10. To say it was intense would be one of the biggest understatements in anime history.

Suiseiseki's loss was so sudden and so quick, that it was extremely difficult to even feel sadness for her. Nevertheless, it was tragic. But what was more emotional was how much Kanaria tried to defend Suiseiseki's Rosa Mystica after she was defeated (by Barasuishou). She really earned my respect this episode. Meanwhile, Suigintou fought an airbourne battle w/Shinku. She revealed that she can now use Souseiseki's sheers, since she took her Rosa Mystica, Watching from afar in his mansion was Rozen, who I couldn't really figure out at all. He looks distrought over the dolls fighting, but at the same time, he seemed to praise Shinku's fight. This leads me to believe that Shinku is indeed Rozen's favourite doll, and that she is most eligable to become Alice. As for why this is happening, it STILL hasn't been revealed. Even Jun, who was pleading for them to stop, wasn't able to make Rozen budge.

I really don't know how episode 12 will measure up. There's still quite a bit of ground left to be covered as to the Alice Game, Rozen's true desire and the Laplace demon. I would seriously hate for it to be as simple-minded as it seems.

Thewanderer

2006-01-20, 00:45

Kuro

2006-01-20, 00:54

You mean episode 11?

Oops. I meant 11.

USCPharmacist

2006-01-20, 01:09

Oops. I meant 11.
ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG I was spoiled, bastard!!!!:heh:

Thewanderer

2006-01-20, 01:18

ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG I was spoiled, bastard!!!!:heh:
Ooops:p

But I was too. Good thing I don't mind spoilers that much:heh:

kitsura

2006-01-20, 06:50

Just completed episode 11. And just as I predicted...
not one but two dolls were killed. Now with 3 dolls left its a pretty quick battle to decide who will be Alice. I hope it will not turn out a major disappointment. Anyway I guess most people will be sad now that Suiseiseki is gone, she was very popular with fans in season 1 and 2.

Flo

2006-01-20, 07:27

Muir Woods

2006-01-21, 00:20

Flo

2006-01-21, 01:26

Saw Chinese sub of episode 11.
Suigintou combating Suisei with her twin sister's, Sousei's, blades just adds insult to injury. I was hoping for Kanaria to have a bigger role than just comedic relief, but I suppose her final honorable acts of support and protection will have to do. The lost of two (more) sisters has really pushed Shinku over the edge. Her immense blend of grief, pain, and anger she must be experiencing is unleashed through a huge mesmerizing maelstrom of pedals. What a scene. Intense indeed. Her feelings are very genuine...oh, Barasuishou and Suigintou, you have incurred the wrath of Shinku's fury. And judging from the episode 12 preview, Barasuishou will be a casualty of that wrath...

I have to wonder, has Shinku always been fighting an inner war between her love for Father (or more broadly, her function/destiny as a Rozen Maiden) and her love for her sisters? Father's lines about Shinku supports this thought. This fundamental inner conflict would greatly explain her as a character and her actions.

All I see is that Gin is talking trash to Suiseiseki (and did partically nothing and just watch) :heh: while and Barasuisou is the one that does the kill.

Probably because in the beginning, she does not want to lose any sisters so she decided to not to fight. However reality proves her wrong, her sisters fallen one by one while Shinku only at the sidelines and dodge attacks. Meanwhile Suiseiseki put her Rozen Mystica on the line so Kanaria could live just a little longer and that short period of time maybe all worth it for Suiseiseki's sacrafice. That perhaps sent a message that sometimes in order not to lose your close ones, you have to fight to protect them even if it means risking your own life for their's. But that message came too late because Shinku as of the moment was the only ones life in the Shinku and Co. I believe part of her is wordering why she never release it sooner. Now that Shinku's balanced between sibling love and fatherly affection was tilted and finally forced into a corner, she have no choice but to show her ugly side.

At least I know that Gin is risking her Rozen Mystical in hopes of saving Megu, as I see it I predict that Gin will be sitting in the sidelines and watch while waiting for the correct oppotunity, she cannot be as reckless or submit to rage like season 1 as one human life is resting on Gin's shoulders and a mistake may cost both lives. Seeing the preview it's mostly like that Bara and Shinku got a Double KO and Gin just watch and grab the Rozen Mystical when the Double KO was done. Her chance of becoming Alice is quite high, but I can't put my money on it. Anything could happen in the last episode.

There's also a possibility that Gin will pass her and Souseiseki's rozen mystical to Shinku as a final act to revive Shinku who may have fallen once to Bara in the final episode. Given Gin's past battles and conversation with Shinku, Gin probably trust Shinku to make the right choices when she become Alice (A trust and bond between rivals perhaps) and that Barasuisou cannot be trusted and her goal is probably to become a war hungry bitch :heh:

Alternatively Gin could step foward and shield her bitter rival Shinku from Bara's fatal attack and the proceed to pass her Rozen Mysticals to Shinku (Again with the trust between rivals), making her power up to Super Seiya Jin Level 4. :heh: Nobody is allowed to hurt Shinku but Suigintou. :heh:

Forever

2006-01-22, 03:25

Another sad episode. From ep 12 preview, it is easy to guess the final winner aka alice.

Shinku will win in the end. After all, she seems to rozen's personal favourite. The question is will be whether shinku will really be willing to be alice?

Here is my guess for the ending. Shinku finishes sugintou and then later bara. She gets prepared to be alice. She talks to rozen. She backstabs rozen and kill him. Jun absorbs his power and restores all the dolls. Happy end.

More likely ending. Shinku commits suicide after being alice. All the rozen mystica is sent back to their owners.

KiNA

2006-01-22, 04:11

Damn.. my Kana T-T :(

PuRpLe CryStaL

2006-01-22, 04:41

It's sad :( to see the fall of Suiseiseki and Kanaria. Kanaria has gained respect from the audience for her determination to protect Suiseiseki's Rosa Mysticas. Although Bara eventually got their Rosa Mystica in the expense of her right hand, I can't wait to see how Shinku would turn tables around when she releases her crimson of anger. To me, I find it difficult to predict the ending. I shared the same thoughts that Shinku will be the winner of Alice Game but she will not want to be Alice. I also want to know what does the OP screenshot about Shinku having tea with Jun (in the garden) implies. What will happen to Shinku if she do not want to take all the Rosa Mysticas from the defeated dolls? How will she go about resurrecting the other dolls? I hope the last episode will wrap things up nicely.

BonBon

2006-01-22, 16:45

I take it from the above posts that we don't need ep 11 spoiler tags at this point.

Very interesting developments. It seems likely to me at this moment, judging from Rozen's reactions to developments, that he designed every single Rozen Maiden in order to make Shinku Alice, and the whole 'game' was not a battle royale after all, but a form of mental conditioning to make her WANT to become Alice.

At this point, even if she still doesn't want to fight, there is no way that Suigintou and Barasuishou are going to agree to her pacifism, so she will HAVE to either keep fighting or just give up.

Nvis

2006-01-22, 19:14

Sirmackerel

2006-01-22, 21:06

I find Barasuisho to be a boring villain and even more boring Rozen Maiden. Yes, she's strong, and yes, she has style, but she has no personality beyond filial piety. (Even that's a stretch, since Rozen probably designed her to be hell bent on the Alice game.) At least Suigintou had character development, as well as her token psycho chuckle/giggle/snicker. I look forward to seeing Shinku choke Bara next episode.

I know it's a given that Shinku wins, but a "Suigintou wins" ending could have been workable.

kitsura

2006-01-22, 21:12

Seriously if any doll that is incomplete can be Alice then the results are still open. If not then Shinku has already won.

Kuro

2006-01-23, 00:55

What's going to happen..

Shinku and Barasuishou are left, with Suigintou simply tending to Megu. (Suigintou is strong enough to beat both of them, but Megu is more important)

Barasuishou : *kills Jun w/her crystal sword*
Shinku : ...!
Barasuishou : That's right. I called your masta.
Shinku : Bitch... you shouldn't have done that. *In an instant, plucks out Barasuishou's remaining eye, leaving her wailing in pain on the ground*
Barasuishou : Aaahh! You *****! I'll ****'n kill you! Aaahhh!!! etc etc.

Door shuts loudly, and you hear Rozen laughing manically with the sound of cloth ripping.

pianocello

2006-01-23, 01:42

Let's get ready for a My:Hime ending!

Kurogane_Shiroikaze

2006-01-23, 03:09

That's the only thing I DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN to Rozen Maiden.

Full revives are good, yes, but please.... leave out the cheesiness.

KiNA

2006-01-23, 04:07

That's the only thing I DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN to Rozen Maiden.

Full revives are good, yes, but please.... leave out the cheesiness.
OK then ...

Sougintou-sama for Alice!!!!!!!

:heh: Sorry couldnt help myself >.<

kitsura

2006-01-23, 04:18

That's the only thing I DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN to Rozen Maiden.

Full revives are good, yes, but please.... leave out the cheesiness.
Yes, My-hime's ending was the most cheesy evar!. It would have been better if they have left everyone dead. Not made some happy ever after ending.

Flo

2006-01-23, 04:28

Yes, My-hime's ending was the most cheesy evar!. It would have been better if they have left everyone dead. Not made some happy ever after ending.
I smell an Ideon ending:D

Imaginary_num6er

2006-01-23, 07:56

Yes, My-hime's ending was the most cheesy evar!. It would have been better if they have left everyone dead. Not made some happy ever after ending.

I smell an Ideon ending:D

Well, now that I do my 2ch "reconnaissance" everyday, I always hear how things would end. Frankly, I didn't expect the "Ideon ending" to be mentioned here and on 2ch.:heh:

As from what I am reading from 2ch, they either expect:
1. It all being a dream
-Remember, "Traumend" = to dream. Alice in Wonderland also ended with it all being a dream so this might be a good possibility.
2. Mai Hime ending: No explanation necessary, but this phrase is similarly used for 2ch.
Specifically, examples of this are:
-A variation of Shinku collecting all the roza mysticas, but refuses to become alice->all but Shinku's roza mystica returns->Jum "fixing" Shinku in the future.
3. Ideon ending: This is basically when all hell breaks lose, and the show just goes emotional.
-First, Megu dies while Gin is in battle. Then, Jum loses all hope in life without Shinku and the others. The watchmaker goes insane, Tomoe goes suicidal, Miichan loses her job, and Jum's sister keeps serving extra plates.
4. Other
Things like:
-Megu becoming Alice by Gin sacrificing her own Roza Mystica.
-Enju is not really "father", but all a conspiracy by Laplace.
-Jum goes "insane" like Father, but instead of making the "perfect girl", he decides to make the "perfect doll" in an effort to meet Shinku and the others.
-Some weird variation like Fate S/N in which, there were previous Alice Games, but everytime there's a winner, the Alice that's desired of the Father's reborn is formed, and the game is resetted again.

Yeah, basically they only say variations to those endings and nothing more. Most assume a Mai-Hime ending though.:heh:

Some other stuff:

Gin is not shown in the previews of ep12. This could mean either she dies very early-on, or there's a "suprise" like in season 1.
On the offical boards, the admin/mod (a TBS worker) specifically says: "Consideration of the 3rd season would be made based upon the amount of support there is." Rumors that there IS a 3rd season is also heard on 2ch.
Possible death / double K.O. foreshadowing can be seen by the light coming from Shinku's side (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/1137691444576.jpg) in ep12 preview.
Possibility that Barasuishou is not the "real" 7th doll. In the manga, they don't really mention her name (not to mention the reversal of eyepatch).
It would be hard for the staff to sack Gin, now that they had a "Suigintou Fan Assembly" almost a month before + coming back from season 1. But then again, Suisei was sacked so you can't really tell.

Btw, I won't go to the nearly infinite amount of criticizms and parodies of this ep from 2ch.:heh:

Flo

2006-01-23, 08:24

3. Ideon ending: This is basically when all hell breaks lose, and the show just goes emotional.
-First, Megu dies while Gin is in battle. Then, Jum loses all hope in life without Shinku and the others. The watchmaker goes insane, Tomoe goes suicidal, Miichan loses her job, and Jum's sister keeps serving extra plates.

Suigintou felt Megu's death and she went beserked and lost all hope. Gives Rozen and Lapace Demon the finger then procceed to overload her rozen mysticals to trigger the destruction of the universe. After the universe's destruction, the messiah being Alice appear and all the souls (including the dolls) gather together in harmony as the universe restarts.

:heh:

Owaranai Destiny

2006-01-23, 10:14

I vouch for the 'dream' ending...It could be simply just Shinku in the future dreaming about the past and what had happened, and another Alice Game will begin all over again like a vicious cycle. ;) Like a fate that the dolls can never escape from: Fighting one another.

Bracken33

2006-01-23, 10:26

Whatever it is, I really hope it is not this ending:

1. It all being a dream
-Remember, "Traumend" = to dream. Alice in Wonderland also ended with it all being a dream so this might be a good possibility.

I want a happy ending for this anime, because I became emotionally attached to all the dolls. Yeah, I know, it is lame... :)

Forever

2006-01-23, 10:33

Shinku becomes alice. Rozen, repressed after hundreds of years, rapes shinku on sight :heh: Shinku summons souseiseki's scissors and 'SNIP'...

Cal-Reflector

2006-01-23, 11:42

Some of these predictions, serious or not, are pretty darn funny to read. Pessmisst that I am, I say Shinku will win this sole-survivor death match(I support Gin-Sama) because she's the protagonist.

The question is... I don't see either Shinku or Barasushiou doing Gin-Sama in...

JHawkNH

2006-01-23, 12:35

Shinku becomes alice. Rozen, repressed after hundreds of years, rapes shinku on sight :heh: Shinku summons souseiseki's scissors and 'SNIP'...

We will see that in the Hentai version of Rozen Maiden.:heh:

Xellos-_^

2006-01-23, 12:37

We will see that in the Hentai version of Rozen Maiden.:heh:

When is the release date for that :eyebrow:

vienhuynh

2006-01-23, 12:47

Already.
But I dont like to see Rozen Maiden dolls do porn things.
Kinda nasty, poor dolls.

ayyo

2006-01-23, 13:57

The chance of getting a dream/Mai-Hime ending and sad ending with none of the dolls reviving seem perfectly equal. It really can go either way.

With this many main characters dead (+ Suigintou next), unless the creators have government protection or a death wish, they will probably revive everyone thru 'dream' or Mai-Hime.
However, with the sad tone at the end and the preview, they can easily go into a sad ending,
But if that is the case, then they would have to resolve Gin and Kana's masters stories too, which would make it seem rushed. Plus the 2nd to last episode of Mai-Hime also ended in a sad note and we know what happens after, so...

PastPrime

2006-01-23, 14:18

Seriously if any doll that is incomplete can be Alice then the results are still open. If not then Shinku has already won.
But, is Suigintou still incomplete? When Father repaired her he might also have completed her.

Cal-Reflector

2006-01-23, 15:33

That was a pretty darn cool episode. It's a matter of personal preference, but I feel that in terms of style (including choice of weapons), the two villain characters really have the upper hand: Gin-sama has her wings and Barasuishou has that cool sword she keeps materalizing out of thin-air.

Burning question: The biggest wild card who doesn't figure well into anyone's equation now is Gin-Sama. What's she thinking of? Has she forgotten her devotion to Father, which came across so intensely in season 1?

Imaginary_num6er

2006-01-23, 16:30

Bad news guys:

(RAW from 2ch RMT Thread #147)
534 名前：風の谷の名無しさん＠実況は実況板で投稿日：2006/01/24(火) 05:52 ID:cQ7I8C9R
キッズステーションの松尾衛監督のインタビュー見たけど、
アリスゲームの真意とはなんなのか？を最終話で明らかにするとか言ってた。
真紅が楽しかった日々を含めてこれから背負っていくとか言ってたけど、
ということは復活エンドはほぼあり得ないってことになるんだろうな…

それと、今回でローゼン完結させるってさ。
３期望んでた人は残念。俺は原作に切り替えて楽しむことにするよ。

(Literal Translation)
#534
I looked at director Matsuo Kou's interview on Kid's Station,
and he said that he will reveal what's the "real purpose of the Alice Game?" on the last ep. He also said that Shinku needs to bear with her many things,
including the happy days she had. Well, I guess this means that the mass-ressurection ending is almost impossible...

Also, he said he's going to conclude Rozen [Maiden] during this time around.
Too bad, to those who wished a 3rd season. I will enjoy myself by switching to the original (manga).

giu_2

2006-01-23, 16:44

Sirmackerel

2006-01-23, 17:03

Kill-em-all endings are good in my book. If that bit from 4chan is legit, then I'm happy with it.

DanielSong39

2006-01-23, 18:59

When is Jun going to get together with Tomoe?

Flo

2006-01-23, 20:04

When is Jun going to get together with Tomoe?
As far as I can tell watching this. Ain't gonna happen anytime in the anime, too little too late.:heh:

Manga on the otherhand, maybe.

kitsura

2006-01-23, 20:41

No 3rd season despite its immense popularity? That's a shame.

Streetor

2006-01-23, 20:44

Money will change any mind. Believe me. Even if they have to go with a different director.

Kuro

2006-01-23, 20:46

I really hope the mediums play a bigger role in the upcoming episode. Just feels like the most climatic (and smart) thing to do. Of course, a plot that sets it up would be manditory, too.

Edit ~ Is there any chance the last episode could be one of the hour long specials? I really don't think the usual 20-30 min will do it justice.

Swann

2006-01-24, 00:13

I still think it’s inevitable that we see a reunion, albeit a rushed one, in this last episode. Rozen Maiden just isn’t the kill all type of show. I could be wrong of course but most anime, most all good anime, follow through in the general direction they were heading – in this case, like season one, a happy ending.

For instance, Mia Hime went dark before the midpoint so it was the happy nonsense ending that felt wrong. For instance, Mahoromatic was cheery and fun throughout so it was the My-God-This-Is-Depressing last episode :heh: which was out of place. I consider both cases as examples of poorly thought out endings which diminished the enjoyment of their show. On the other hand, Maho Sensei Negima received much the similar talk when Asuna (was that her name?) died, with a nail in the coffin no less, but the series ended in a fitting way.

The more I think about, if there isn’t a revival of all characters, not only would I be very surprised but more than a little disappointed. Unless it’s a very creative ending, like Shinku not winning; I’ll give points for that. Maybe Gin will win and turn Megu into an Alice doll. The two of them could cheerily sing the end song from within the broken down church.

As for no 3rd season, the whole 2 season Alice plotline will end this week but for the right money they can think of another.

Guido

2006-01-24, 00:34

My only complain for the eleventh episode was the use of rock guitar soundtrack played during the first half of the fight at the Rose Garden. It just doesn't fit with the Gothic theme of the Rozen Maidens and isn't suitable for the dolls.

I will have chosen a operatic drama score instead.

Another climax episode that packs an emotional punch.

My tears flowed out witnessing Kanaria's sorrow, angst, and resolution to protect Sui-seki's Rosa Mystica and pleading Bara-suishou to stop, yet coldly she stabbed Kana-chan in the heart or so seemed to me.

I have high hopes that the twelfth episode won't be the last one, opening the chances for a thirteenth one.
The preview glances that not everything will be resolved, because it'll deal mostly Shinku against Bara-suishou showing her psychotic grin.

And did everyone get goosebumps when Bara-suishou hissed like a wild cat when giving Kana-chan the coup de grace?

That chilled my spine!

Owaranai Destiny

2006-01-24, 09:21

I suddenly have a wild theory....Sorry if this has been talked about...
-The last surviving doll is said to become Alice, the perfect girl.
-Suppose Shinku is the last surviving doll somehow and is deemed to be flawless, she becomes Alice...With one more effect: She forgets everything and everyone close to her, and wakes up in the future after a long sleep, all alone with Father...
Or
-She wakes up after being promised to become Alice, but as the perfect Alice 'doll' with a road ahead of her to be stepped upon onto becoming the real Alice.

Zafo

2006-01-24, 09:51

A "reset" ending became more and more likly with every maiden that got "killed." Souseiseki's and Hina Ichigo's death could have been left as a bittersweet ending, but once Suiseiseki and Canaria were killed, it was a certainty.

But it's also plausible. They're dolls. Thier Roza Mystica is like the Spark in transformers. The bodies are interchangible. And it was clear when Barasuishou took Canaria's Roza Mystica, it was still seperate from Suiseiseki's. Since the Mystica are all seperate, they can be reinstated.

I'm pretty sure that the ending will be Jun convincing Rozen to cancel or alter the Alice Game. Barasuishou would stop fighting immidiatly, sicne she seems motivated my pure loyalty to him, but Suigintou I think is a little battle hungry, and would continue to fight. Though if shamed by her "father," she'd probably stop.

ayyo

2006-01-24, 10:10

I don't think Suigintou is really battle hungry despite her appearance in the fights, she just wants to save Megu.

gonzo

2006-01-24, 12:48

A "reset" ending became more and more likly with every maiden that got "killed." Souseiseki's and Hina Ichigo's death could have been left as a bittersweet ending, but once Suiseiseki and Canaria were killed, it was a certainty.

There will be only one survivor. But what is it good for? Just an anime-form of the original sin: to become perfect, you have to commit the crime of killing the others?

But it's also plausible. They're dolls. Thier Roza Mystica is like the Spark in transformers. The bodies are interchangible. And it was clear when Barasuishou took Canaria's Roza Mystica, it was still seperate from Suiseiseki's. Since the Mystica are all seperate, they can be reinstated.

A perpetual Big Bang. ROFL.

I'm pretty sure that the ending will be Jun convincing Rozen to cancel or alter the Alice Game. Barasuishou would stop fighting immidiatly, sicne she seems motivated my pure loyalty to him, but Suigintou I think is a little battle hungry, and would continue to fight. Though if shamed by her "father," she'd probably stop.

Again: what should that be good for? To make us spectators a little bit less uncomfortable?

I go back to my theory that dolls are different from humans, because they can seek for perfection (Shinku to Jun in Rozen Maiden, season 1, ep 12). Therefore it is impossible for a doll to become the perfect girl. There will never be an end of the Alice Game, because the Alice Game is an absurdity, a contradiction in itself.

The only really interesting thing is the interaction between at least three types of beings: humans (Jun, Nori, Tomoe, ..), dolls (Rozen Maiden, the clown from season 1, ...), unclassified beings (Laplace, Enju/Rozen).

Greetz, Gonzo

Thewanderer

2006-01-24, 14:27

There will be only one survivor. But what is it good for? Just an anime-form of the original sin: to become perfect, you have to commit the crime of killing the others?
It's technically not killing them more than merging with them. IMO, at least.

Mangaka-chan

2006-01-24, 15:39

As much as I like all the dolls I really don't want a ressurection ending because to me because of the "love can do anything" cliche. As romantic and hopeful as that theme may be it's way too shoujo-esque for me and I hope RMT will end with something sad but poignant (although I have no idea what that would be :p ).

Xellos-_^

2006-01-24, 15:41

I'm pretty sure that the ending will be Jun convincing Rozen to cancel or alter the Alice Game. Barasuishou would stop fighting immidiatly, sicne she seems motivated my pure loyalty to him, but Suigintou I think is a little battle hungry, and would continue to fight. Though if shamed by her "father," she'd probably stop.

If you look at the preview Barasuishou goes down next.

kj1980

2006-01-24, 15:41

What ends, will end - at least in anime form.

Both seasons of Rozen Maiden have far exceeded my expectations, which I agree that the original manga by Peach-Pit and the anime version both have great strong points.

So should traumend end, I will be happy how it will take.

gonzo

2006-01-24, 16:07

It's technically not killing them more than merging with them. IMO, at least.

Sorry, IMHO, it's not merging, but consuming. The act of taking over the other's Mystica is totally unsymmetrical. Has Shinku gained any property of Hina Ichigo? Her childishness, e.g.? Mystica lends only power/energy ...

Thewanderer

2006-01-24, 16:35

Sorry, IMHO, it's not merging, but consuming. The act of taking over the other's Mystica is totally unsymmetrical. Has Shinku gained any property of Hina Ichigo? Her childishness, e.g.? Mystica lends only power/energy ...
*Consume (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=consume)*
*Merge (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=merge)*

If it was consuming, the Mysticas wouldn't have been there any more to lose again. And yes, the dolls take on at least each other's abilities(like Suigintou using Souseiseki's scissors), so it is more like merging.

Flo

2006-01-26, 15:01

Unexpected turn of event when going around 4chan. It seem like...

Bara is the winner. Oh well, A sad day for Shinku and Gin fans...

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2936/11382963361133yr.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5317/11382965496074kz.jpg
http://kanaria.ddo.jp/rozen_upload2/rozen0852.jpg

Mangaka-chan

2006-01-26, 15:34

Xellos-_^

2006-01-26, 15:40

Flo

2006-01-26, 15:54

Are sure those are real :eyebrow: In the last image bara's eye patch is on the wrong side.

Well screen shots can't go wrong

Barasuishou gets the manga makeover look in the end

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9716/11382976036351ip.jpg
http://kanaria.ddo.jp/rozen_upload2/rozen0852.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4171/rozen07315sg.jpg

Amaiko

2006-01-26, 15:55

Unexpected turn of event when going around 4chan. It seem like...

Bara is the winner. Oh well, A sad day for Shinku and Gin fans...

The ending isn't quite that grim. And Barasuishou only "won" in the sense that she defeated the others; however, since she cracked and fell apart when she became Alice, she can hardly be called the winner. She does apparently revive into a new form (her manga look) at the end though.

And Shinku and Suigintou aren't dead at the end. Every one of the girls seemingly revives with the exception of Hina Ichigo and Souseiseki, because Laplace apparently ran off with their Rosa Mysticae. So essentially, nothing was really resolved, and they'd better be making another season since they went and stuck that "Laplace ran away with Sou & Hina's mystica" bit in.

Also, Rozen fails to die horribly. :mad:

Flo

2006-01-26, 16:00

Also, Rozen fails to die horribly. :mad:

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr... :frustrated:

Looks like Lapace wants to create an army of Hina Ichigo and Souseiseki clones using the myticals to take over the world. *sigh* If only plans of season 3 are on the way, which reminds me....

....I can smell tons of death threats flooding TBS's mail box now if there is no plans for the 3rd season.

Mangaka-chan

2006-01-26, 19:09

I think I saw a post that said the director wasn't going to do a third season :( maybe someone else will take over... :hmm:

justsomeguy

2006-01-26, 20:25

What? So the ending was basically half a reset?

Thewanderer

2006-01-26, 20:42

What? So the ending was basically half a reset?
Seems that way. And I don't know moonspeak, so I can't confirm it, but I watched the raw, and Bara did become Alice(and after the others revived, it looked like). Though Sou and Hina looked alive and well during the last scene...Can anyone clarify what the deal is with that?

Amaiko

2006-01-26, 20:58

Seems that way. And I don't know moonspeak, so I can't confirm it, but I watched the raw, and Bara did become Alice(and after the others revived, it looked like). Though Sou and Hina looked alive and well during the last scene...Can anyone clarify what the deal is with that?

Barasuishou didn't become Alice, but she apparently evolved into her "true" self (the way she looks in the manga). Shinku told Jun in the scene at the end when he comes to get her. "I met Father. He told me to please aim for Alice, but the Alice Game isn't the only way to become her." <---I'm not entirely sure about this last part, because I can't catch some of Shinku's words, but the first part I'm pretty certain about. So, technically, the Alice Game is still on, so to speak.

Hina and Sousei aren't alive. If you look at that scene, you can see that their eyes are closed and their heads are hanging forward, limp. Plus, Jun told Shinku when he picked her up, "Souseiseki and Hina Ichigo are...."

Shinku said something in response about "must become stronger" but I couldn't catch the whole dialogue, and Jun ended with "We certainly will." So, are they supposed to go track down Laplace and get Sousei & Hina's Mysticae back? Since they made a point of showing Laplace gliding off with two Rosa Mysticae in his hands, I presume those two belong to Sousei and Hina.

I wanted to smash Father so badly after watching this episode, ESPECIALLY after the scene when he slaps Jun and dissolves completely into crazy. I don't care that he finally made Suigintou complete and brought the girls back--it doesn't excuse what he did and he's a neurotic fool who needs to pay for all the pain and suffering he's caused. I was pointing and laughing like crazy during the scene when Barasuishou starts coming apart after she's "won".

stormy001_M1A2

2006-01-26, 21:04

Amaiko

2006-01-26, 21:14

Father is complicated man, it is too simplistic to hate him. Afterall, he did create the Rozen sisters in the first place. We love the dolls but we neglect the purpose of their creation. Perhaps the years of waiting have made him go mad? Perhaps too he is still deciding about real reason for Alice? The anime is vague and so is the ongoing manga.

I think there is more substance to this character that most of us willing to give credit for. Just some musings from me.

Actually, as it turns out (thanks to a summary I just read from someone more fluent in Japanese than I...

"Father" wasn't really Father at all, but one of Rozen's apprentices! He was so jealous of Rozen's skill that he created his own doll, Barasuishou, with the help of Laplace to defeat all of Rozen's creation so he could prove himself the best. Barasuishou wasn't a real Rozen Maiden at all--that's why she fell apart after winning. The real Father was the one who brought the other girls back to life, and did indeed tell Shinku to go find Sousei and Hina's Rosa Mysticae. Set up for 3rd season, anyone?

So in short: Real Father=good, fake Father=deserves a horribly painful death.

However, even though the"true" Barasuishou has appeared, it seems like she's in cahoots with Laplace for some reason....

Thewanderer

2006-01-26, 21:24

"Father" wasn't really Father at all, but one of Rozen's apprentices! He was so jealous of Rozen's skill that he created his own doll, Barasuishou, with the help of Laplace to defeat all of Rozen's creation so he could prove himself the best. Barasuishou wasn't a real Rozen Maiden at all--that's why she fell apart after winning. The real Father was the one who brought the other girls back to life, and did indeed tell Shinku to go find Sousei and Hina's Rosa Mysticae. Set up for 3rd season, anyone?

So in short: Real Father=good, fake Father=deserves a horribly painful death.

However, even though the"true" Barasuishou has appeared, it seems like she's in cahoots with Laplace for some reason....
But Shinku obtained all of the Rosa Mysticas from all of the "true" Rozen Maidens... shouldn't she have technically won if Bara wasn't a legal competitor in the first place?That's what I don't understand...

Amaiko

2006-01-26, 21:30

But Shinku obtained all of the Rosa Mysticas from all of the "true" Rozen Maidens... shouldn't she have technically won if Bara wasn't a legal competitor in the first place?That's what I don't understand...

When did Shinku have all of the Rosa Mystica though? The only one she really had was Hina Ichigo's; Barasuishou got all the rest. When fake Bara disintergrated, the Rosa Mysticae all went flying off, and as we saw, Laplace got his hands on Hina's and Sousei's. And since Father told Shinku that the Alice Game wasn't the only or best way to become Alice, he might have been hinting that he wants the girls to live together without fighting. Shinku wouldn't want to become Alice anyway if it meant taking her sisters' lives.

ayyo

2006-01-26, 21:38

Looks like a Season 3.

The last fight was pretty good when both of them used the other dolls' powers. But even with all of those, a simple poke with a cane paralayzes her. :heh:

And yay, knew there would be a Kun-kun thing at the end.

Edit: Anyone else think the rose coming out the eye thing is a little creepy? :eek:

Sirmackerel

2006-01-26, 21:38

Thewanderer

2006-01-26, 21:39

m|rA|

2006-01-26, 22:27

When did Shinku have all of the Rosa Mystica though? The only one she really had was Hina Ichigo's; Barasuishou got all the rest. When fake Bara disintergrated, the Rosa Mysticae all went flying off, and as we saw, Laplace got his hands on Hina's and Sousei's. And since Father told Shinku that the Alice Game wasn't the only or best way to become Alice, he might have been hinting that he wants the girls to live together without fighting. Shinku wouldn't want to become Alice anyway if it meant taking her sisters' lives.

If I'm not wrong, Shinku gained Suigintou's Rosa Mystica while Barasuishou gained Souseiseki's. After gaining it Shinku managed to get flashbacks of the times Suigintou shared with Megu and hence realised that Suigintou may have been doing what she did for Megu.

On a side note, the part about bout Suigintou shielding Shinku from Bara's blows had me thinking. Did she do that because she realised halfway into the fight with Shinku that her powers were stronger not only because of the Roza Mystica but also because she was absorbing Megu's power, hence causing Megu to become weaker (and she didn't want that). Or if it was because she wanted to be the one to defeat Shinku. (Therefore Bara could not defeat Shinku before her.) Or both.:confused:

Reading from these summaries, I'm not sure what to think of the ending. It sounds very inconclusive and a blatant excuse to make a third season (not that I'm complaining). I'll have to actually see this first before making any more comments.

Actually it is to my opinion that from the ending, I'm thinking there might not be a third season based on something Father told Jun and Shinku at the end.

The Alice Game is not the only way to become Alice. There are other ways.

Of course there's always a possibility of me being wrong.... ;)

JHawkNH

2006-01-26, 23:20

Reading from these summaries, I'm not sure what to think of the ending. It sounds very inconclusive and a blatant excuse to make a third season (not that I'm complaining). I'll have to actually see this first before making any more comments.

I personally believe that this was one of the best season enders I have seen to date. Alot of the summeries are based on speculations about what was said even though most of us know little or no Japanese. I had high expectations for this episode, and it exceded all most of my expextations.

P.S. I called it a season ender and not a series ender becuase it does point toward a third season.

P.S.S. On the note of the director saying that there would be no third season. Might he have said that as misinformation, just so that we would not know what to expext in the 12 episode. After when we thought it was going to end with this episode, most opinions had Shinku winning. I didn't expect at all what would occure.

stormy001_M1A2

2006-01-27, 00:12

Now with the revelation, my musings is right. A person who created this dolls who is almost alive can't be possibly a bad natured person.

The question is, who is Laplace actually? Moreso what are his intentions?
The anime did not answer this enigma.

Again, I think the manga might provide the answer.

ImperialPanda

2006-01-27, 00:36

On a side note, the part about bout Suigintou shielding Shinku from Bara's blows had me thinking. Did she do that because she realised halfway into the fight with Shinku that her powers were stronger not only because of the Roza Mystica but also because she was absorbing Megu's power, hence causing Megu to become weaker (and she didn't want that). Or if it was because she wanted to be the one to defeat Shinku. (Therefore Bara could not defeat Shinku before her.) Or both.:confused:

Towards the end of her fight with shinku she realized she was using Meg's power so she didn't want to fight anymore at that point. After that either Bara snuck up on them or Suigintou didn't move out of the way because perhaps she wanted Shinku to win? The second guess is pretty far out with no support so the simpler first senario is more likely.
Excellent action sequences, very very nice. :rolleyes:

Question:

So did Bara die or no? :confused: Of course this may not matter since everyone gets revived every other week. -_-
Anywho, the last episode was ever so slightly above my mediocre expectations. So kudos I guess. Also I don't care what whoever said, that practically screamed "THIRD SEASON INC!"

KiNA

2006-01-27, 01:30

I have one comment ...

JUN BAKAAAA!!!!! :frustrated:

Tatiana Razajev

2006-01-27, 02:34

P.S.S. On the note of the director saying that there would be no third season. Might he have said that as misinformation, just so that we would not know what to expext in the 12 episode. After when we thought it was going to end with this episode, most opinions had Shinku winning. I didn't expect at all what would occure.

Anything is possible. People involved in making a series do change their mind over time in many cases. Of course it's a two way street. Sometimes the change of plans is along the lines of "cancellation" while other times it's a "new season". All we can do is wait and see if/when a third season is announced. Of course if there will never be a third season, then well the wait is forever

As for my own personal comments on episode 12

It was a rather interesting episode even if it left a lot of stuff open. It was rather nice to see the other Rozen Maiden's powers used during the battle. I was rather surprised to find out that Bara was apparently a fake and not the real Bara. At least as far I can tell watching the raw and reading posts at some boards. In any case now I will continue hopes for a Season 3 even if it is currently considered futile.

Conan-san

2006-01-27, 02:41

KiNA

2006-01-27, 02:42

A question since I watch the raw and I could only make out some conversation only..

When Gin died.. why is her RM go to Shinku and Suisei's go to Bara? :confused: Shouldnt it both goes to the same person?

Another Q

If there is a 3rd season ... How long do we have to wait? .. Usually? How long do you guys waited between the 1st and the 2nd season before?

Flo

2006-01-27, 02:50

Like I said on 4chan. (Without the rampet use of the F word);
It's a Kira ending, it's the ending absoultely no one wanted, that has 0 chance of a conclusion and as such, the director has shotguned this series in the head.

Way to screw over the fans, does he have coffie meetings with Fukida?
I believe PEACH-PIT isn't please either.

Like I said, death threats will be flooding his office demanding a 3rd season. Or at least an OVA to tie up all loose knots.

Conan-san

2006-01-27, 03:46

Naw, the'll be a "Rozen Maiden: Tramund Final Plus" and it will answer nothing and make Shinku the bitch of Bara.

Flo

2006-01-27, 05:14

I can see lots of Shinku parody picture base on this screen.

Shinku: THIS RIGHT HAND OF MINE IS BURNING RED!!!! IT'S CALLING OUT TO ME TO DEFEAT YOU!!! HISSATSU! BAKURETSU SHINKU FINGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR!!!!
http://kanaria.ddo.jp/rozen_upload2/rozen0854.jpg

Seravy

2006-01-27, 06:09

In short, I thought the ending was brilliant. Unexpected and surprising, and above else, leaving us wanting for more (and giving us good cause to believe there will be).

Up until now, the anime has borrowed elements from the manga, but hasn't shared continuity--having it's own unique storyline. With the way things were setup, we would have been led to believe that a conclusion to the story in Traumend would be the end of the anime franchise for this series.

But what they have done with this ending, is adjust the anime continuity so it can fit in (or at least become parallel to) the manga storyline. Which opens the door to a season 3 and beyond. Which is something I honestly wasn't expecting would happen. (No doubt Peach-Pit's collaboration on this production had something to do with this).

There are many elements to the story which couldn't have been satisfactorily resolved if it had ended now (like Jun's importance). If Shinku had become Alice, or some other absolute ending had occured, that would have shut the door to those other unresolved bits being addressed, leaving things worse off than they would be otherwise.

I think Traumend accomplished what it set out story wise. The stage for the game, the girls purpose in it, their struggle etc. With the way it's ended now, Rozen coming out and actually saying there are other ways, sets things up for the next phase in the story.

I'm personally looking forward to what season 3 has to offer.