View Full Version : Public translations(fansubbers must read) !!!!
Hola All. I'am currently starting up a small service for fansubbing groups. Most of my translations for the series I do will soon be available for use by any fansubbing group however their is a requirement ,we must be credited as the source of translations. Fansubbing groups can also request that we translate episodes. Currently I have some of the fastest translators around so you can expect your work to be completed quickly, Please note Their are a few series that I will not release translations for such as Airmaster. I look forward to hearing your feedback, starting next friday my site should be up with all the translations I have completed so far.
megumidk
2003-11-05, 12:17
Fansubbing groups can also request that we translate episodes for a specific series but in those cases a donation must be recieved prior to us releasing the translation.
It is just me or are you actually saying that you want people to pay you to translate ?
It is just me or are you actually saying that you want people to pay you to translate ?
Funny, that's what I heard too.
Hmmm... I think I saw someone posting on the old forums, asking for PayPal donations for some reason or other. He was banned, I think. Anyway, requesting payment for doing fansubbing work is... not good, shall we say? You're basically doing the same thing bootleggers are, earning money off other peoples works.
Currently I have some of the fastest translators around
Fast does not mean it's good.
With that aside, I don't think anyone will use your service, so there's no point in pimping it. Anyone reputable will either already have TLs or will think twice before using some unknown person's script. You'll earn more respect if you just give them to a site like scriptclub.org.
Fansub groups already have translators, why would they pay for you to do it?
fast + using audio source for translation = bad
I said I would make all the translations my group subbs public but I know its hard for fansubbers to find translators so if their was a episode for almost any series that they wanted done they could request it from me. As far as charging goes its only a optional donation. This is the same thing that Bram Cohen does. I'am not charging just asking for a donation.
megumidk
2003-11-05, 20:08
Please read your own opening post, it states that donations has to be paid before the translation is released.
sounds wierd...
Why not just join an existing fansubbing group?
I like the idea (tho I don't really support payment...)
but...
it seems somehow wierd...
Though it would be nice for translating older series... ^^;
all the new one have 3+ groups working on them, so.... yeah... older series need more TLs.
And of course, as Gipface said, fast doesn't mean good.
Accuracy is more important than speed =)
(though both is great)
NoSanninWa
2003-11-05, 20:45
I said I would make all the translations my group subbs public but I know its hard for fansubbers to find translators so if their was a episode for almost any series that they wanted done they could request it from me. As far as charging goes its only a optional donation. This is the same thing that Bram Cohen does. I'am not charging just asking for a donation.
Please read your own opening post, it states that donations has to be paid before the translation is released.
It does, but let's accept that what he has just said is a clarification. If his original post was a error, then he means that he hopes for donations, but doesn't require them. Right ff7799?
This is a first...I am actually embarrassed reading a post...:(
It does, but let's accept that what he has just said is a clarification. If his original post was a error, then he means that he hopes for donations, but doesn't require them. Right ff7799?
heh lol. Thats what I meant, I can't force anyone for a donation and I will help anyone regardless if I recieve one.
Digital-Kitty
2003-11-06, 06:16
Currently I have some of the fastest translators around
Fast does not mean it's good.
With that aside, I don't think anyone will use your service, so there's no point in pimping it. Anyone reputable will either already have TLs or will think twice before using some unknown person's script. You'll earn more respect if you just give them to a site like scriptclub.org.
Your a laugh riot. Actually, there is no shame in using an unknown script or a public translation. Someone reputable would likely put another translator on it to check it though. Seriously, if you compare Anime-Keeps translation of Mahoujin GuruGuru with the public translation posted to Scriptclub.org by monmon, theyre pretty much over 90% exact. Looks like a safe bet there, and Ive seen others in the past too. I dont think it happens more often because hardly anyone ever releases translations or scripts anymore.
Im guessing ff7799 will likely get raped by requests if the translators are good and probrobly even if they arent. Fast doesnt mean good, but it doesnt mean bad either. There are pleanty of wannabes out there if anything who would likely be interested.
Actually, there is no shame in using an unknown script or a public translation.
Sure there is ... which is why things are re-translated even though there are public scripts available.
Someone reputable would likely put another translator on it to check it though.
Groups that use this service will probably not have a translator available in the first place. Anyone who does have a TLer will just use him or her anyway. It's a lose-lose situation.
Seriously, if you compare Anime-Keeps translation of Mahoujin GuruGuru with the public translation posted to Scriptclub.org by monmon, theyre pretty much over 90% exact.
But it's the 10% that makes a difference. Out of 350 or so lines, I don't want 35 lines to be incorrect.
Nah ... it's still a bad idea. :o
NeverRamza
2003-11-06, 11:34
Actually, there is no shame in using an unknown script or a public translation.
Sure there is ... which is why things are re-translated even though there are public scripts available.
Someone reputable would likely put another translator on it to check it though.
Groups that use this service will probably not have a translator available in the first place. Anyone who does have a TLer will just use him or her anyway. It's a lose-lose situation.
Seriously, if you compare Anime-Keeps translation of Mahoujin GuruGuru with the public translation posted to Scriptclub.org by monmon, theyre pretty much over 90% exact.
But it's the 10% that makes a difference. Out of 350 or so lines, I don't want 35 lines to be incorrect.
Nah ... it's still a bad idea. :o
You're making a much bigger deal out of this than you should be. What is so bad about using someone else's script? Unless you're making the translations yourself with no aid at all, it's all the same. Why does it matter if you're using a script that someone else may or may not have used? The goal is to subtitle anime and allow others to watch it and nothing superficially more. Don't be so pretentious about it.
And second, a 10% difference does not mean that 10% is incorrect. Some of the translating of Japanese is left to interpretation because there is no exact way to do it. Also, there's a chance that the Anime-Keep version wasn't exactly correct in the first place so in some cases the translation may possibly be better.
And second, a 10% difference does not mean that 10% is incorrect. Some of the translating of Japanese is left to interpretation because there is no exact way to do it. Also, there's a chance that the Anime-Keep version wasn't exactly correct in the first place so in some cases the translation may possibly be better.that is very correct about the interpretation for example in naruto episode 55 where sakura goes to visit sasuke in the hospital when the nurse realizes that sasuke is gone she runs of yelling sensei which is reffering to the doctor, now depending on the situation the word sensei means different things, so when speaking to your martial arts master you can call them sensei which would also be translated as master, while when speaking to a school teacher saying sensei would be interpreted as proffesor. Another word that is left up to interpretation is the word baka, the general definition of baka is idiot however depending on the situation and the speech being used it can be interpreted as fool,stupid,and a few other terms to describe a moron. I know it seems wierd but this really just shows you how deep the japanese language really is.
Digital-Kitty
2003-11-06, 13:41
I figure that the -10% not only account for translation check in the script, but also editing. I can count atleast two other groups who have used before/are using now another fansubbers translations besides the one mentioned. Thats only counting the digi-subbers. Why reinvent the wheel when all it needs is just a little polishing? I doubt many people who watched any of the above fansubs even know or care where the translations came from.
I never see anything that is retranslated while public scripts are around, except for the couple of items I had redone (and I now think it was a big waste to do so). Then again, I dont see many public scripts available for stuff anymore and hardly anyone subs anything that would be.
I figure that most groups will likely use their own translators too. Im interested in seeing how this will turn out.
that is very correct about the interpretation for example in naruto episode 55 where sakura goes to visit sasuke in the hospital when the nurse realizes that sasuke is gone she runs of yelling sensei which is reffering to the doctor, now depending on the situation the word sensei means different things, so when speaking to your martial arts master you can call them sensei which would also be translated as master, while when speaking to a school teacher saying sensei would be interpreted as proffesor. Another word that is left up to interpretation is the word baka, the general definition of baka is idiot however depending on the situation and the speech being used it can be interpreted as fool,stupid,and a few other terms to describe a moron. I know it seems wierd but this really just shows you how deep the japanese language really is.
Well, for the case of sensei, translating someone as 'teacher' when it's supposed to be 'doctor' in the context is what I would consider a mistake. It's not really a matter of interpretation unless the scene gives a really muddy idea of what is actually going on (though in that case it would still be an error, though an acceptable one).
I agree that Japanese is a very complicated language, and there are times when there are many equivalent words in English for one Japanese word. However, a lot of times, given a good knowledge of Japanese, you really can't use just any of those English words.
As for the public domain translation proposal, I think your translations would probably benefit people who don't want to download subbed anime (but rather raws but still don't understand Japanese), rather than the fansubbers themselves. With rare exceptions, such as the lack of translators on certain oddball series that no translator wants to do, fansub groups generally will have translators on hand to translate things. Plus, in order for groups to use your translations, you have to be able to give some assurance of quality. What would happen if one of the translators translated wrongly and the rest of the fansub group don't really know Japanese? Would a fansub group want to take that risk if you give no guarantees at all, or at least some semblence of assurance?
SirCanealot
2003-11-06, 21:52
Hmm, I think this could be a good service. I'm not sure about posting all the scripts online for everyone to see. Say group x want to sub anime y, which is not being subbed by anyone, if the scripts were posted ANYONE could come along and sub anime y. Making scripts public for popular shows might work though.
Also, you need to get a strong editor, or give the groups options to contact yours trans. In every script I've worked on I've needed to contact the trans, at least over a few minor issues. No translator is perfect, especailly when going from quickly spoke Japanese in anime, which means it can get very hard for us editor when transfering that into a lanuage just as complicated, writen modern English :P
Hmm, I think this could be a good service. I'm not sure about posting all the scripts online for everyone to see. Say group x want to sub anime y, which is not being subbed by anyone, if the scripts were posted ANYONE could come along and sub anime y. Making scripts public for popular shows might work though.
Also, you need to get a strong editor, or give the groups options to contact yours trans. In every script I've worked on I've needed to contact the trans, at least over a few minor issues. No translator is perfect, especailly when going from quickly spoke Japanese in anime, which means it can get very hard for us editor when transfering that into a lanuage just as complicated, writen modern English :P
the way it will work is simple, I'll share my scripts in exchange, for theirs, in others words if I provide my translations for say saint beast then I would expect someone to share their translations for narutaru. I'am going to build a public archive with translations. My translator is japanese and probably one the best translator most of these fansubbing groups will ever meet. I'am sure of my work and thats it. I have all the translations reviewed by my editor whom is also fluent in japanese, so the translations are practically error proof.
Relentless
2003-11-06, 22:52
Just to put things in context, maybe it should be mentioned that back in the old VHS fansub days, the ones many old-timers think were more ethic, idealistic, respectful and meaningful, it was not unheard of that fansub groups hired translators for a fee.
In those days (1996-1997), fandom was very small and much like the site everybody used to look for anime information was The Turnpike (anipike.com), there was a mailinf list called TAFMAL (The Anime Fansub Mailing List or something). It'd be wortwhile to look if it was archived somewhere.
From time to time, one could see posts asking for donations to pay for the translation of anime episodes. Rarely, you could see translators offering their services. Average cost for a 25 min. episode were about US$50.00, opening and ending songs were extra. It was believed (or felt) that since translation demanded specific skills and were going to be used in fansubs "freely"* available, it was not wrong nor improper. Even SASE-only guys accepted the practice.
It was also usual in those days that the people who donated to pay the translation were considered "sponsors" of such episode, and their names appear in the credits.
And I could name at least one translator for hire from a fansub group who later became a professional translator for a well known American anime company.
*I used quotes here because one of the most heated debates in the fansub scene was between those who said that fansubs should be available with no money being exchanged, fans should send a self-addressed, self-stamped envelope with blank tapes; and those from the then-new "distro services" that received money to pay for said tapes and postage. It was strongly argued how much distro should charge, whether they should allowed a fee for their time, wear of their equipment, etc. SASE-only guys considered distros as bootleggers unless their prices covered exclusively tapes and postage.
These days, I think the situation is even closer to the spirit of fansubbing, there's absolutely no money involved thanks to on-line distribution.
Sorry if a got carried off-topic. This is my first post in the forum. Nice to meet you all. And BTW I'm not an old geezer, just somebody who still remember VHS fansub days :P
CrazyFlamer
2003-11-07, 14:53
I don't see what the problem is. I think it's a great thing that he's willing to translate for other groups. It seems that some people on here thinks he means being the main TL. I look at it this way. Say your a fansub group and lets say you have one TL working on a project, he decideds that he has a life outside of TL and goes for a vaction for a few weeks. Instead of just sitting around waiting why not give this guy a chance? The TL could test his translations before leaving to find out how good they are. He's provideing a service, if he's not good don't use him anymore.
About the donating thing. If you like it donate. Same with BT and same with fansub groups. If you really like them donate something to them for there hardwork every now and then. You don't have a dollar to spare, you don't have to donate. I think I'm pretty lucky to be able to watch so much anime free of charge before it's released here in the states.
There's to many freeloaders in this world. I'm not accuseing anyone here of being a freeloader, I'm just making a statment.
...one of the most heated debates in the fansub scene was between those who said that fansubs should be available with no money being exchanged, fans should send a self-addressed, self-stamped envelope with blank tapes; and those from the then-new "distro services" that received money to pay for said tapes and postage...
Indeed, I searched Google Groups for "TAFMAL" and got:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=32FE569B.2E87%40xnet.com
Enragin_Angel
2003-11-07, 19:02
I think the reason VHS fansubbers did it in this manner was so they wouldn't step on anyone's toes. Back then when anime wasn't as recognized as it is today, fansubbing only helped the company, but being as illegal as it was(and still is) the anime companies were willing to overlook it because these people were not making profit from their work. Over the years the views and perceptions of this whole process was changed and these "ethics" were forgotten. Sometimes its because these new "kids"(as opposed to old VHS subbers) don't know how the system works so we get an urbanvision fiasco.
Truthfully, if you want to help out by donating money...I think you should just take that money and buy an anime dvd. Fansubbers do their part by making anime known to the world outside of Japan...if you have the money to donate and want to help then you should take that money and go buy some anime merchandise so we can possibly get some more higher budget anime films.
NinjaServ
2003-11-19, 12:58
Well, by what this guy is saying he is able to avoid any legal issues and MAKE money legally at the same time (not that I agree with his method), because of the fact giving a TL of something ISN'T illegal. Kind of a dirty scam, but hell, what else is new, scams are all over the net!!!
**PS, if you want to request more feedback by me Paypal me at bitemyshinymetalass@scams.org LOL**
CompShrink
2003-12-03, 06:45
I'm in the situation sir canealot described, I have a series in raw, and my translator keeps disapearing on me and thus still has yet to finish the first ep, but if I give you the raw, anyone will have access to the translation, and then other groups would pop up to compete, using the exact same script, with probably only minor edits if any...
If you say, had a delay, that might be more acceptable. Say one month maybe after you give the translation before you post on the site? That would guve at least some margine of security that the sub group that requests your translation won't be replaced.
Oh, and the series I'm subbing has not been released by anyone yet, to the best of my knowledge, and at least isn't on BT.
By the way, making a translation IS ILLEGAL, even JUST THE TEXT, I'd rearched this a while ago, translation is the sole right of the copyright holder, according to US and Berne Convention (aka International) copyright law. "Dirivative works" can also be made only by the creator or copyright holder, so there's no easy loophole around it.
Yeah, *sigh* VHS days were a bit different... I agree though, if you have the money to donate, donate it to the anime company: buy anime dvd/manga.
PS: I didn't mean ToTan by "my group," I'm talking about another group I'm in.
I'm in the situation sir canealot described, I have a series in raw, and my translator keeps disapearing on me and thus still has yet to finish the first ep, but if I give you the raw, anyone will have access to the translation, and then other groups would pop up to compete, using the exact same script, with probably only minor edits if any...
If you say, had a delay, that might be more acceptable. Say one month maybe after you give the translation before you post on the site? That would guve at least some margine of security that the sub group that requests your translation won't be replaced.
Oh, and the series I'm subbing has not been released by anyone yet, to the best of my knowledge, and at least isn't on BT.
By the way, making a translation IS ILLEGAL, even JUST THE TEXT, I'd rearched this a while ago, translation is the sole right of the copyright holder, according to US and Berne Convention (aka International) copyright law. "Dirivative works" can also be made only by the creator or copyright holder, so there's no easy loophole around it.
Yeah, *sigh* VHS days were a bit different... I agree though, if you have the money to donate, donate it to the anime company: buy anime dvd/manga.
PS: I didn't mean ToTan by "my group," I'm talking about another group I'm in.
Actually my intention was to release translations to the public once the group they were provide by had released their episode, that way if someone else release a episode using my public database then they couldn't say they were first to do it, by doing this though it will ensure that all groups have a fairr chance to make better quality epiosdes I mean because I have had to rush many times, the quality of my episodes were not always the best however by doing this people can decide if they want to watch my release or wait for someone else and I plan to release translations a day after a group has released their episodes online that way anime fans won't have to wait long, I mean I know everyone is competing however I'am just really a anime fan at heart and I know how hard fansubbers must work being that I am one of them however I also know what its like to be a bitching fan waiting for a episode to be released just to discover that the quality sucks, because of this people will now have more choice but at the same time groups releasing the translations will also have a day to get credit and the fact is the real fans will download the episode the day its released. I hope you see my logic in doing this because their is a much larger plan here, by getting translations for numerous series and ollder series, we'll get a chance to see some of the classics return, like urusei yatsura, I hope to eventually create a large fansubbing database that anyone can add their translations to and other groups can go their download their work and provide us with newer and better quality releases. Infact by doing this I will soon have to worlds largest archive, hahahah
That's very good! I wish more groups did that!
maxthelostboy
2003-12-06, 17:05
i think thats a great idea too! Then we can have smaller newer groups taking on the older series noone will ever bother touching.
If you build it up where you have loads of anime scripts on archive i think your site will be visted alot by new fan sub groups. I thinking doing the classic and new animes noone subs would be a great way to kick off.
PocariSweat
2003-12-06, 22:24
I could see something like a "translation exchange program" set up where a group first has to donate a script of their own before getting access to one of the scripts in the bank. Or after donating a script, they can get a translator "commissioned" to work on one for some other show. This would limit it to only serious subbers, and maybe after some time archived scripts could finally be made public.
This way groups could distribute the translation work a bit and everyone would eventually benefit. Fansubs have come a *long* way - I know sometimes I wish I could use the fansub translations in place of the "professional" DVD ones. You can tell the best fansubbers are fans themselves - often they'll go that extra mile (like translating signs and other background stuff).
I could see something like a "translation exchange program" set up where a group first has to donate a script of their own before getting access to one of the scripts in the bank. Or after donating a script, they can get a translator "commissioned" to work on one for some other show. This would limit it to only serious subbers, and maybe after some time archived scripts could finally be made public.
This way groups could distribute the translation work a bit and everyone would eventually benefit. Fansubs have come a *long* way - I know sometimes I wish I could use the fansub translations in place of the "professional" DVD ones. You can tell the best fansubbers are fans themselves - often they'll go that extra mile (like translating signs and other background stuff).
This is exactly my point, Man when I'am done people are going to be amazed, this public database will now allow fansubbers to release anime series at even faster rates. and like I said before their would be a negotiation meaning groups can request one of super subbers translators or even another group willing to participate to translate a series and in return they will give up a translated series of their own well episodes it doesn't have to be whole series but I'am going to try and milk each group as best as I can, because to be honest once a group releases a episode they delete their translation and all that hard work goes bye bye, but now they have a much better option, they can actually turn around and help out other groups.
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