View Full Version : Chapter 208 [Manga] Discussion
After the crash, i figure its best to keep going where we left off.
Synopsis:
It starts off with Ilfort explaining to Renji that his transformation is how they release their zanpakuto. Next Jinta comes out of no where and saves Ururu then tries to hit Ilfort, but ends up having Renji(who is looking really bad) save him. After hitting Renji hard, Ilfort tells Renji his name(in spanish) "Yo soy arrankar quince, Ilforte Grantz" (translation: I am arrankar 15, Ilfort Grantz). Cut over to the arrankar fighting with Hitsugaya, who says something to the effect of, "I can't believe Ilforte had to release too." He then notices that Hitsugaya seems to be weakening(and getting beat badly) and that the 3 flower things that normally float over Hitsugaya's head during bankai have been dissappearing(which he believes that when all of the petals are gone, Hitsugaya won't be able to use bankai anymore). The arrankar then says that to save Hitsugaya's dignity, he will go to his most powerful form so that Hitsugaya won't have been beaten by an arrankar untransformed, and then transforms, saying "Sever, Tijireta." He keeps the same basic shape, but his fingers lengthen and turn into the bone-like thing that hollows masks are made of, and he gains a tail which also is made of this thing. He then, way too fast for Hitsugaya to block, strikes Hitsugaya for a critical hit, and states his true name, "Yo soy arrankar Undecimo, Shawlong Qu Fong"(translation: I am arrankar 11, Shawlong Qu Fong") And finally we flip to Nakim saying bye to Matsumoto(who looks utterly defeated on the ground).
LightningZERO
2005-12-18, 21:54
Hmm, i think Hitsugaya's three petals have some secret powers...
Nightengale
2005-12-18, 22:49
Yes, Shinigamis LOSE LOSE LOSE. Vastrodes ftw.
Ichigo better get owned quick by Grimjoww. And then witness the awesomeness that is Hiyori and Ryuken to save their Shinigami ass.
Sadly, I think Illforte is destined to lose. Urahara and Yoruichi haven't even appeared yet while Ururu and Jinta clearly can't win.
Xiao Long Scissorhands.:D
AnbuItachi
2005-12-18, 23:32
Hmm, i think Hitsugaya's three petals have some secret powers...
doubt it. looks like hes at his limit basically. he's only still a kid so he has potential and all. after this batch of shinigamis are defeated, hopefully more captains come!
i think it is only right that renji and hitsugaya lose, and also ichigo just to make things mroe consistent...
if we compare byakuya's bankai with either renji or hitsugaya, byakuya's knowledge of his bankai far exceeds that of both combined. While byakuya was transforming zenbonzakura, hitsugaya and renji were just swinging their bankais around.
Time for Unohana to come down again. Inoue can't possibly heal them all. Perhaps we can see some Unohana action.
Time for Unohana to come down again. Inoue can't possibly heal them all. Perhaps we can see some Unohana action.
:D yes ~! .... maybe Hanatarou also come down too:heh: !
who know ~ maybe send other captain :naughty:
and ......where :frustrated: @#$@###$&^%$ is Urahara ?
Poor Ururu-chan!
Nightengale
2005-12-19, 00:36
and ......where :frustrated: @#$@###$&^%$ is Urahara ?
He's more worried about Renji and SS confiscating his "illegal" goods rather than his own employees.
That bastard.:p
if we compare byakuya's bankai with either renji or hitsugaya, byakuya's knowledge of his bankai far exceeds that of both combined. While byakuya was transforming zenbonzakura, hitsugaya and renji were just swinging their bankais around.
You must also take into account the time of which they've achieved Ban Kai, and the amount of reiatsu they have.
Hitsugaya, being a Captain, has obviously had a decent amount of time to work with his Ban Kai, which contrasts Renji's limited time with his Ban Kai. However, as mentioned in the chapter, Hitsugaya is still basically a kid (one wonders how spirits grow, but I digress) and thus, the amount of reiatsu he possesses is less than most others, one of which would be Kuchiki Byakuya. I'm not saying that his Ban Kai will rival Byakuya's in strength or anything when he gets older and more reiatsu...just that his Ban Kai will improve.
As for Renji, he may have the reiatsu to make good use of his Ban Kai, but he lacks experience. Remember, Yoruichi mentioned that it takes at least 10 years of training just in order to achieve Ban Kai...that's not even mentioning how long it takes to fully master it.
Basically, I'm just saying that Renji lacks experience/knowledge of his Ban Kai, and Hitsugaya lacks reiatsu in order to make proper use of his Ban Kai (I do hope it'll turn out to be more than just ice wings and an ice tail though). Kuchiki Byakuya of course has both in abundance, so it's not really fair to compare him with the other two (even though Hitsugaya is a Captain...)
gameoffreak8
2005-12-19, 03:03
Wait a minute, I am very quite confuse about rank.
Eduardo Leones #13, fighting with Ikkaku. He is killed by Ikkaku after the shinigami reveals his bankai
Diroi (D-Roy) - #16 Rukia and kills him with the shikai form of her zanpakutō
Shawlong Qu Fong - #11 beat easily Tōshirō Hitsugaya with shikai form
I noticed Ikkaku killed Leones who is #13. If he can do it then Renji should kill easily with Illforte is #15. I was very confuse with the rank.HELP!!!:twitch:
Dark Lord Zenigame
2005-12-19, 03:54
It doesn't seem to be rank, but rather the number in which they were transformed into Arrancar.
You must also take into account the time of which they've achieved Ban Kai, and the amount of reiatsu they have.
Hitsugaya, being a Captain, has obviously had a decent amount of time to work with his Ban Kai, which contrasts Renji's limited time with his Ban Kai. However, as mentioned in the chapter, Hitsugaya is still basically a kid (one wonders how spirits grow, but I digress) and thus, the amount of reiatsu he possesses is less than most others, one of which would be Kuchiki Byakuya. I'm not saying that his Ban Kai will rival Byakuya's in strength or anything when he gets older and more reiatsu...just that his Ban Kai will improve.
As for Renji, he may have the reiatsu to make good use of his Ban Kai, but he lacks experience. Remember, Yoruichi mentioned that it takes at least 10 years of training just in order to achieve Ban Kai...that's not even mentioning how long it takes to fully master it.
Basically, I'm just saying that Renji lacks experience/knowledge of his Ban Kai, and Hitsugaya lacks reiatsu in order to make proper use of his Ban Kai (I do hope it'll turn out to be more than just ice wings and an ice tail though). Kuchiki Byakuya of course has both in abundance, so it's not really fair to compare him with the other two (even though Hitsugaya is a Captain...)
well that was exactly what i was trying to say ^_^ just goes to show that Hard work > talent.
the ichigo vs byakuya fight was made just so the authors could prove a point about society and its structures. which is why, i believe, they made ichigo win. But they did justice to byakuya, by not really letting ichigo win by himself, but rather with a lot of help from some1 else.
wait, is shawlong qu fong (sp?) fighting in the air? Since when could they fly
Nightengale
2005-12-19, 06:16
wait, is shawlong qu fong (sp?) fighting in the air? Since when could they fly
They CAN fly. They floated their way to meet Grimjoww.
Just because Di Roy said his specialty is air combat doesn't mean he's the only one that can fly. Heck, it seems that even Ikkaku can fly now.
That or he used his Bankai to turn himself into a human helicopter.
Zachariah
2005-12-19, 06:48
Actually, it's been said that they gather the spiritrons around them and focus them beneath themselves so as to quite literally walk on air. Just think of Ishida's quincy abilities and techniques and you can get the drift of it.
Novarain
2005-12-19, 07:51
Actually i'm hoping Renji actually wins a fight... for once...
After getting his ass kicked by Ichigo twice and getting utterly owned by Kuchiki Byakuya and Aizen i think it's about time some justice was done to Renji... after all he's at least VC and if i read 207 correctly he may be a captain soon...
UserName
2005-12-19, 12:25
It doesn't seem to be rank, but rather the number in which they were transformed into Arrancar.
So 20th would be the 20th transformation? Implying that Aizen got worse with using the Hou Gyouku as he went along? (contradicting what Isshin said about him being able to complete his studies and make stronger arrancar). Then there's the thing about getting the stronger Menos, I doubt they'd ally themselves with Aizen until he made some strong Arrancar otherwise it'd be pointless.
Or it could just be that Ikkaku at Bankai form is stronger than Renji (who barely attained it and is already low-Captain level maybe with it and Hitsugaya doesn't seem like that strong a Captain) at Bankai form... or Aizen knew exactly the amount of number of Arrancar he planned to create and went in reverse order.
ritalman
2005-12-19, 13:36
Yeah, the petal thinggy is quite strange. For one, if it were the countdown to the end of the ban kai, wouldn't it be stupid to show it to your opponent? Isn't it too convenient that the arrancar guessed when Hitsu doesn't confirm?
Most Hitsu fans love the theory that, like Ikkaku, the petal thing shows that the ban kai has to charge and at the last petal, Hitsu take another form (some say a full ice dragon (see the feet already?) other say a grown up body for a grown up power... many fantasies float lol) to kick his opponent.
Well I would have agreed with the countdown to the new form (especially because showing the end of the ban kai is really retarded) but the panel where Hitsu is, sorry but, Destroyed almost cancel any chance for him to come back.
And i'm quite disappointed because after two straight loss, we still have no idea what Hitsu's ban kai does...
Yeah, the petal thinggy is quite strange. For one, if it were the countdown to the end of the ban kai, wouldn't it be stupid to show it to your opponent? Isn't it too convenient that the arrancar guessed when Hitsu doesn't confirm?
Most Hitsu fans love the theory that, like Ikkaku, the petal thing shows that the ban kai has to charge and at the last petal, Hitsu take another form (some say a full ice dragon (see the feet already?) other say a grown up body for a grown up power... many fantasies float lol) to kick his opponent.
Well I would have agreed with the countdown to the new form (especially because showing the end of the ban kai is really retarded) but the panel where Hitsu is, sorry but, Destroyed almost cancel any chance for him to come back.
And i'm quite disappointed because after two straight loss, we still have no idea what Hitsu's ban kai does...
Yeah, that's pretty much my thoughts. I doubt the petals mean what the opponent guessed (1. It's stupid to show that to your opponent 2. Histugaya didn't respond...), but he lost anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
Who lost? Hitsugaya? He lost alot of blood but he's still in the fight.
Yeah, that's pretty much my thoughts. I doubt the petals mean what the opponent guessed (1. It's stupid to show that to your opponent 2. Histugaya didn't respond...), but he lost anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
While I certainly see your point, I can still argue the opposite.
1) Have you ever considered that Hitsugaya never had a choice in the matter? Just because it's stupid to show it to your opponent doesn't mean you can hide it.
2) He might've been shocked that the arrancar was able to deduce that from the limited time that they've been fighting. Just because he doesn't answer doesn't mean the arrancar is wrong.
I mean, as of now, unless Tite Kubo is willingly to bring forth this information, or he makes Hitsugaya explain his Bankai in the manga/anime, all we can do is speculate. Different people will have different thoughts on this. Of mine...at this point, I do think the arrancar is probably right...though I do hope that Hitsugaya will somehow make a comeback. =/
Souzouryoku
2005-12-19, 16:45
I doubt Hitsugaya is dead. I really don't think Tite Kubo will be killing off any main (or popular)characters anytime soon. Though, I will give him a praise of respect if he does. I've been waiting for a main character to die. I know that sounds kinda negative or whatever, but for once I'd like to see some tear-jerking-omg-I-really-liked-that-character-he's-really-gone! moments :p
Hitsugaya's Bankai is up in the air. While it could mean that he will indeed get some sort of huge boost once the final petal shatters, the Arrancar may be the one who's right. As of right now, I'm hoping for the latter, simply because we have already seen a type of Bankai that increases in power as time passes. Then again, it's amazing to see how weak they're making Hitsugaya seem. So really, it can go either way.
And did anyone else notice the thing Matsumoto was holding at the end of the chapter? If I had to guess, I think she's holding a communicator, and she's going to call for reinforcements.
CorpMazral3
2005-12-19, 16:59
ooh, didn't notice that at first. Thanks for pointing that out :D Yeah, it's most likely some kind of "phone" to contact the SS. Poor Matusmoto, she looks so helpless there...:(
And did anyone else notice the thing Matsumoto was holding at the end of the chapter? If I had to guess, I think she's holding a communicator, and she's going to call for reinforcements.
Yeah...I did. It looks kinda like a stick of Pocky to me, lol. =p
As has been stated before in the manga and anime, bankai goes away when the shinigami is near death or dead. That's the only circumstance we've ever seen bankai disappear. So, if Hitsu's bankai really disappears when the petals are gone, then he's got to be the weakest captain ever....which I don't believe. At least, I hope not :\
sanghyun1990
2005-12-19, 18:11
I think when all 12 pedeals he will tun into a full dragon. Look at his bankai it is weak. I just notcied that Renji is flying, then why didn't he fly before when he was fighint Ichigo?
Nightengale
2005-12-19, 18:51
Don't worry too much about Hitsu's loss. Like Xiao Long said, he's just a child and his Bankai isn't genuinely complete yet. Just like how Gon and Killua can never ever reach their full potential despite their godly talent because their Nen are barely mature.
Besides, at the rate Kubo is going, I won't be surprised if in 100 chapters time, Hitsu will get a growth spurt due to unexplainable reasons, become a Grimjoww clone without those freaky looking eyes, and a big ass dragon behind him with petals as much as Senbonzakura.
I think when all 12 pedeals he will tun into a full dragon. Look at his bankai it is weak. I just notcied that Renji is flying, then why didn't he fly before when he was fighint Ichigo?
The living world and the Soul Society are 2 different places. It's like comparing Earth and space.
Or it's just another plot hole by Kubo.
debbiechan
2005-12-19, 19:06
yeah, Renji sure is getting around with that ban kai of his--I thought he was flying too.
Hitsugaya--I predict BIG WIN. His birthday is Tues, Dec 20. He's too popular a character to be killed. Yeah, Matsumoto's pocky stick---probably a diversion from what's going to be an uber power up after the petal countdown!
hmm i would be countering what i said in other topics about hitsu, but now that some1 had mentioned it, it is pretty stupid for a bankai to show its "countdown" to disapperance. I mean, why does a bankai have to have to show its opponent that? it basically give the opponent an advantage... but i predict that Hitsu WILL LOSE this fight for the main reason that it seems he doesn't know his bankai well enough...
on a side note, i think Hitsu has the capability of becoming the opposite of yamamoto hehe... besides I would think the element of ICE is older than FIRE, or atleast the discovery of fire hehe...
Why do people keep thinking the vanishing petals are a countdown to some sort of power boost?
Go and read the chapter! The Arankaru clearly explained, that Hitsugayas Bankai is going to vanish, because its still incomplete. It's not something Hitsugaya wants, it just is this way. The author wouldn't write this long explanation, if it were just a misjudgement from the enemy!
It's like Sui Fong's Shikai: She explained, that when Yoruichi left it was still incomplete and it got better in the meantime... for Hitsugaya it's the Bankai.
So you are saying that the Arrancar, who had never seen Hitsugaya before knows everything about his Bankai? That doesn't make any sense! He's cocky to get straight to the point. Look at page 7 on the exact same chapter. He sensed that Ilforte released his hollow form (shikai/bankai whatever). He flat out said that it wasn't because Ilforte was forced to, but because he got bored. That misjudgement took an entire page...
The Soi Fong & Yoruichi case is different. Yoruichi was basically her teacher.
Nightengale
2005-12-19, 21:11
Okayyyyy.... Let's assume it's a countdown to a power boost. What difference would it make? It's already so clear that Bankai Hitsugaya isn't capable of beating Xiao Long's normal form, much less his Edward Scissorhands mode.
And Hitsugaya is already fatally injured. Maybe not so much as the Aizen slash, but it's literally enough to put him down.
Okayyyyy.... Let's assume it's a countdown to a power boost. What difference would it make? It's already so clear that Bankai Hitsugaya isn't capable of beating Xiao Long's normal form, much less his Edward Scissorhands mode.
And Hitsugaya is already fatally injured. Maybe not so much as the Aizen slash, but it's literally enough to put him down.
Oh, come on. It's shounen.
Nightengale
2005-12-19, 22:19
Oh, come on. It's shounen.
I can accept that.
But I'm not buying a 2 second power-up with fatal injuries healed instantly that boost him up so strong that he can beat someone who's argubly MUCH MUCH stronger than him in his full capabilities.
Even Ichigo needed days. Much less Hitsugaya who doesn't even have the main character special treatment.
While I certainly see your point, I can still argue the opposite.
1) Have you ever considered that Hitsugaya never had a choice in the matter? Just because it's stupid to show it to your opponent doesn't mean you can hide it.
2) He might've been shocked that the arrancar was able to deduce that from the limited time that they've been fighting. Just because he doesn't answer doesn't mean the arrancar is wrong.
I mean, as of now, unless Tite Kubo is willingly to bring forth this information, or he makes Hitsugaya explain his Bankai in the manga/anime, all we can do is speculate. Different people will have different thoughts on this. Of mine...at this point, I do think the arrancar is probably right...though I do hope that Hitsugaya will somehow make a comeback. =/
1) Yeah, I've considered that, but that implies that his Zanpakutou hates him... An odd thought to say the least.
2) He didn't have shocked eyes at that point. Compare his eyes to when the arrancar releases his sword. Clearly different. His eyes are actually the main reason I believe this, although I admit that it's a rather weak argument.
But yeah, there's no strong evidence either way at this point. Neither would surprise me.
the somewhat bland reaction of hitsugaya when arancar 15 mentioned the disappearing petal doesn't point to any conclusion whether its a power boots or a disappearing boost hehe...
From what i've read of shounen titles, the character never explains nor show what he has in-store until the moment he shows it. But still, im not in favor of it being a countdown in a negative way nor in a positive way at least for hitsu.
KiraDouji
2005-12-20, 01:23
You know... everyone's pretty confident in Byakuya's bankai, and while I will agree that both he and Senbonzakura are absolutely amazing... um... Ichigo beat him with a just achieved bankai? So compare Hitsu and Renji to Byakuya and Ikkaku, because that makes sense and all, but don't forget that someone who managed to essentially shatter Senbonzakura is having issues too.
Consider this: all of the shinigami have been or are being beaten pretty badly. The only one who even has a point for the team is Ikkaku, of whom we know the least about in terms of age, bankai, training, etc, etc... so let's not even get into that right now. Just look at it story wise - we're reaching a climax here. Kubo is building up to something. My personal opinion is that it's a character (re?)introduction.
I can see... Urahara, Yoruichi, Isshin, Quincies or Visored. Or a mix. But what I could also see is Aizen or someone from Aizen inc. to come down and say "wtf are you doing? Home. Now." although, I think that'd be the lamest plot device Kubo could use at this point. We're really not a place to add a 'level-up' so to speak, but we are certainly being driven towards some plot mover and right now it's looking like characters.
- Kira
Just a small reminder:
(I don't recall the exact chapter where the following is said but)
Do not forget that the strength of the Shinigami's in the real world is capped!
They are 5 times less stronger then they are in Soul Society
because for the fear of collateral damage in the real world.
So maybe there is a way to remove that restriction too and
let the shinigami use their full potential in the real world too?
nice releases though! can't wait for the next episodes!
TECHNICALLY speaking, yes ichigo beated byakuya. However, what actually happened wasnt as simple as saying that.
Hard to believe that the petals are just there so they can show Hitsugaya's downfall. Have to wait and see if he actually had lost, but i got the feeling he'd make a comeback, or at least try to.
Elvanvitar
2005-12-20, 09:34
You know... everyone's pretty confident in Byakuya's bankai, and while I will agree that both he and Senbonzakura are absolutely amazing... um... Ichigo beat him with a just achieved bankai? So compare Hitsu and Renji to Byakuya and Ikkaku, because that makes sense and all, but don't forget that someone who managed to essentially shatter Senbonzakura is having issues too.
Consider this: all of the shinigami have been or are being beaten pretty badly. The only one who even has a point for the team is Ikkaku, of whom we know the least about in terms of age, bankai, training, etc, etc... so let's not even get into that right now. Just look at it story wise - we're reaching a climax here. Kubo is building up to something. My personal opinion is that it's a character (re?)introduction.
I can see... Urahara, Yoruichi, Isshin, Quincies or Visored. Or a mix. But what I could also see is Aizen or someone from Aizen inc. to come down and say "wtf are you doing? Home. Now." although, I think that'd be the lamest plot device Kubo could use at this point. We're really not a place to add a 'level-up' so to speak, but we are certainly being driven towards some plot mover and right now it's looking like characters.
- Kira
Well, Rukia did kill that one guy. And hollow Ichigo beat Byakuya. I definately think Byakuya could handle an Arrancar just fine. And I know that the one Visored said that him and Ichigo are the same thing. But is that really the case? Visored are basically shinigami who gain hollow masks. Arrancar are hollows that lose their masks. Ichigo really is neither. He has had his shinigami powers and hollow mask since the inception.
Well, Rukia did kill that one guy. And hollow Ichigo beat Byakuya. I definately think Byakuya could handle an Arrancar just fine. And I know that the one Visored said that him and Ichigo are the same thing. But is that really the case? Visored are basically shinigami who gain hollow masks. Arrancar are hollows that lose their masks. Ichigo really is neither. He has had his shinigami powers and hollow mask since the inception.
Technically speaking, he had Shinigami powers first (Episode 1, Rukia transferred her powers to Ichigo). It's true that afterwards he lost that power and had to regain it, but in terms of chronology, he had the powers first before he gained the Hollow mask. It's just that he regained his powers at the same time he got the Hollow mask. However, this could simply be nothing more than a plot hole (typical of Shounen manga...especially ones with this amount of fighting... *glances over at DBZ*)
Elvanvitar
2005-12-20, 10:44
Technically speaking, he had Shinigami powers first (Episode 1, Rukia transferred her powers to Ichigo). It's true that afterwards he lost that power and had to regain it, but in terms of chronology, he had the powers first before he gained the Hollow mask. It's just that he regained his powers at the same time he got the Hollow mask. However, this could simply be nothing more than a plot hole (typical of Shounen manga...especially ones with this amount of fighting... *glances over at DBZ*)
Yes, but the powers were never his own. From how they explained it, any human would be able to gain shinigami powers through the transfer deal. From the time had got his own shinigami powers, he always had the hollow side.
Yes, but the powers were never his own. From how they explained it, any human would be able to gain shinigami powers through the transfer deal. From the time had got his own shinigami powers, he always had the hollow side.
Any human that survives the transfer process anyways. However, it was also mentioned that Rukia's powers awakened his own dormant powers. Thus, you can also argue that if his latent powers were no longer latent, that he was, in a manner of speaking, basically a full-fledged Shinigami already (in terms the power he possesses, not talking about recognition from Soul Society). The process that he went through with Urahara was likely (and I'm speculating here, I'll admit that. I'm not trying to pass this off as fact or anything) meant to bring those powers that were awakened to the forefront. He was always relying on Rukia's power and such, thus he never had a reason to use his own strength, so it's reasonable to say that he didn't know he had his own Shinigami powers, and why he would be unable to use them at all.
Take, for instance, Card Captor Sakura. The heroine, Sakura, had her own magic. Yet in the beginning, she had no idea how to call upon it, or how to use it at all. She basically relied on the magic of Clow and used that as a crutch. It wasn't until later (with some help of course) that her own powers began to surface and she began to take advantage of her own strength.
Again, all purely speculation (none of us are Kubo Tite after all =p), but that's how I view this whole situation. Purely my own opinion.
Elvanvitar
2005-12-20, 14:08
Any human that survives the transfer process anyways. However, it was also mentioned that Rukia's powers awakened his own dormant powers. Thus, you can also argue that if his latent powers were no longer latent, that he was, in a manner of speaking, basically a full-fledged Shinigami already (in terms the power he possesses, not talking about recognition from Soul Society). The process that he went through with Urahara was likely (and I'm speculating here, I'll admit that. I'm not trying to pass this off as fact or anything) meant to bring those powers that were awakened to the forefront. He was always relying on Rukia's power and such, thus he never had a reason to use his own strength, so it's reasonable to say that he didn't know he had his own Shinigami powers, and why he would be unable to use them at all.
Take, for instance, Card Captor Sakura. The heroine, Sakura, had her own magic. Yet in the beginning, she had no idea how to call upon it, or how to use it at all. She basically relied on the magic of Clow and used that as a crutch. It wasn't until later (with some help of course) that her own powers began to surface and she began to take advantage of her own strength.
Again, all purely speculation (none of us are Kubo Tite after all =p), but that's how I view this whole situation. Purely my own opinion.
That's a good possibility. I can't comment on CCS since I've never watched it. My take is that he never had shinigami powers. He obviously has a lot of spirit power, and thats likely one of the main reasons why he survived the transfer process. Humans obviously can have high amounts of spirit pressure and not be shinigami (ex: Quincy). I just think he gained his powers from Rukia then lost them. And then went through the special training from Urahara to make him a Shinigami (or Vizored). Hopefully we will find out later though which case it is.
This also makes me wonder who made the Vizored. Was it Urahara? I wouldn't think Shinigami could become them on their own.
This also makes me wonder who made the Vizored. Was it Urahara? I wouldn't think Shinigami could become them on their own.
I've been wondering that myself. They obviously are not allied with Aizen and his Arrancar, and with Aizen's abilities if he had made them they would be under his Complete Hypnosis I'd expect.
So far, we only know of 2 (possibly 3) people who could create them. Aizen, Urahara, and possibly the currently 12th division captain (Name escapes me). Since he took over the Reseach Division, it is possible he found some of Urahara's old notes, or managed to figure out how to do it.
Only other possability is that they have been around for a while, and just decided to come to the forefront.
Another interesting question is: If the Vizored are former Shinigami, who were they? Actual members of the Gotai 13 assumed to be dead, deserters, people who were never officially entered (like black ops, they don't officially exist)? That is why I think the 12th Captain may be involved. Neither Aizen or Urahara would have access to many Shinigami right now, but the Captain would.
I can accept that.
But I'm not buying a 2 second power-up with fatal injuries healed instantly that boost him up so strong that he can beat someone who's argubly MUCH MUCH stronger than him in his full capabilities.
Even Ichigo needed days. Much less Hitsugaya who doesn't even have the main character special treatment.
Ichigo vs. Kenpachi.
DoAsInfinity
2005-12-20, 21:10
...possibly the currently 12th division captain (Name escapes me).
Kurotsuchi Mayuri
I've been wondering that myself. They obviously are not allied with Aizen and his Arrancar, and with Aizen's abilities if he had made them they would be under his Complete Hypnosis I'd expect.
So far, we only know of 2 (possibly 3) people who could create them. Aizen, Urahara, and possibly the currently 12th division captain (Name escapes me). Since he took over the Reseach Division, it is possible he found some of Urahara's old notes, or managed to figure out how to do it.
Only other possability is that they have been around for a while, and just decided to come to the forefront.
Another interesting question is: If the Vizored are former Shinigami, who were they? Actual members of the Gotai 13 assumed to be dead, deserters, people who were never officially entered (like black ops, they don't officially exist)? That is why I think the 12th Captain may be involved. Neither Aizen or Urahara would have access to many Shinigami right now, but the Captain would.
Mayuri? Hell no, he isnt strong enough ( sorry ronald mcdonald). Urahara is most likely the canditate. Aizen? nah, he has his vastrodes and his crew, doesnt make sense to have both vizards and arrankars on same side. Vizards joining up with SS and the "Earth" crew is most likely. I just dont see vizards being bad guys with the personalities they have and some of the goofy moments they have (you never know...). Well ichigo aint joining if it isnt helping this drama to be over not make any more..
O ya vizards are ex rogue shinigami who use forbidden techinique to gain hollow powers. Different method from what urahara used. Well, i do hope they pop out and help hitsugaya and renji ( he needs to lose, improve his technique same with renji) but this is kinda interesting.. The cover of 192 has hitsu,renji,ikkaku,kenpachi, ichigo and byakuya, all of them have already fought except byakuya and kenpachi and byakuya is 6th division captain... grimmjow is arrankar #6 and shawlong is arrankar # 11 ... kenpachi is captain of 11th divsion..They better play a role in the arc =/. Hmm i hope they come out and kenpachi bust out his shikai hahahaha... im dreaming to early...
Hmm, after re-reading Chp 188, I see what you mean about the Vizards, where Isshin says they are 'A rogue group of ex-shinigami who use forbidden techniques to gain the power of a hollow'.
That seems to say that the method is known in Soul Society, but is fobidden (How can you forbid something that isn't known?). Which begs the question... why didn't Aizen do that, instead of creating the Arancars? Or is Aizen already a Vizard? We know he is insanely powerful...
Yaktura ::.
2005-12-21, 07:24
Oh Puh-leeeez
Hitsu's bankai power up is so obviously ... it almost hurts.
Obviousy there has to be some major drawback. Maybe the natural way for a hollow to become an Arankal, or for a Shinigami to become a Vaizard, takes a very long time and is incomplete, while the Hougyoku is able to do the complete transformation in a short time.
Obviously there has to be a reason, and I don't think the author is going to keep it a secret forever.
Is it possible that the Vizards were created using Urahara's device? He knew it was dangerous, maybe he learned that because he created the Vizards and saw them go mad with power / go rogue / something, so he hid it so no more could be made.
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