View Full Version : Higurashi (1st Season) General Discussion
Welcome to the General Discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni.
Feel free to discuss and share comprehensive analysis and theories of this title here. As each episode bring out new hints and yet more mysteries, you may use this thread to share and discuss your theories about what is going on in the little town of Hinamizawa. Utilize the clues that were uncovered in each episode and utilize them to formulate your hypothesis in the General Discussion Thread.
Spoiler Tag Usage
Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...
Don't forget to use the spoiler title
....will get you this...
Don't forget to use the spoiler title
ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!
Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.
I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.
SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.
And finally, feel free to utilize the translated TIPS written on the Higurashi no Naku Koroni TIPS thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) for more clues and hints that the anime, manga, and dramaCD do not provide. You may also try looking at the Poems by Frederica Bernkastel (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31811) as a supplement as well.
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[original lost, beginning of thread recovered]
One of the biggest hit doujin games since Tsukihime, 07th Expansion's Higurashi no Naku Koroni will become an anime scheduled to air sometime in 2006! Yay!
Animation studio: Studio Deen
Director: Kon Chiaki
Series screenplay: Mochiduki Tomomi
Character design: Sakai Kyuta
I wonder if they will keep the seiyuus that did the voices (at least for the main characters) for the Higurashi no Naku Koroni Drama CD:
Maehara Keiichi: Hoshi Souichirou
Ryuuguu Rena: Nakahara Mai
Sonozaki Mion: Yukino Satsuki
Houjou Satoko: Kanai Mika
Furude Rika: Tamura Yukari
http://www.oyashirosama.com/
I wonder how the English title will be...will the fansubbers use the official English title: 07th Expansion presents, Welcome to Hinamizawa... "When They Cry" or will they literally translate it to "When the Cicadas Cry."
Footnote for future non-doujin playing fansubbers: the red "Na" in Higurashi no Naku Koroni is an important part of the official title (could it be an important piece of the puzzle? ....I'm not telling). DON'T LEAVE THE RED "NA" OUT!!! (Damn it, is there anyway to change the thread title to show the red "Na" properly!?)
Then again, since the drama CD was distributed by Geneon Entertainment, and seeing how Higurashi no Naku Koroni is following directly in the footstep of how Tsukihime's popularity has blossomed, it won't surprise me at all if this anime has already been licensed by Geneon USA.
On the other hand, since I hardly doubt that most non-Japanese anime fans have ever heard or played the doujin game (the thread for discussing the Higurashi no Naku Koroni doujin game), very few to none of you would know how big of a news this is...
....see you guys all at the Watanagashi Festival.... hee-hee.
[Decided to give this thread a new fresh start]
Sushi-Y, please contribute.
Sushi-Y, please contribute.
What is that, it's almost as if you knew that I was going to type up a new thread for this, and then just before posting it, I would see this thread and realize that I was one step too late, so with that one line there, allow me to have a chance to post what I typed up too? ^^;
Well, since kj1980 provided the basic details about the anime staff, I'll remove that part in my post.
For those of you who are still unfamiliar with the series. Higurashi no Naku Koroni (When the Cicadas Cry, or its official English subtitle "When They Cry") is a highly successful doujin sound novel series that has a huge fanbase following in Japan (for a doujin game). As of now, Higurashi's popularity can even be said to rival that of historically big-hits such as Type-Moon's Tsukihime or Fate/stay night.
In any case, since this thread is supposed to be about the game's anime adaptation, I'll forgo an introduction of the game. Besides what kj1980 mentioned above, other technical details about this anime are:
========
Episode Count: 26
Estimated Airtime: 2006
Genre: Serial Murder Suspense Horror
Adapted from:
"Higurashi no Naku Koroni"
"Higurashi no Naku Koroni Kai"
by Ryukishi07 / 07th Expansion
========
Of course, despite what the genre suggests, Higurashi no Naku Koroni is actually a pretty balanced story with memorable "laugh-out-loud" moments as well as tear-jerking ones. One of the reason why the game is so popular despite the amateurish art is simply because of the brilliance in the writings. Hopefully the anime adaptation can successfully replicate the unique story and bring the characters and settings to life on television.
In terms of visual materials for the anime, there isn't much out yet, besides the recent revealing of the character designs, which I'll list here:
Maebara Keiichi:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-keichi01-2.jpg
The "player character" of the story. Most of the story is told through the viewpoint of Keiichi, a young teenager who recently moved from the city to the rural village of Hinamizawa with his family, making new friends and adjusting to the new life as he goes along.
Ryuugu Rena:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-rena01-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-rena02-2.jpg
The sweet yet reliable classmate who lives close to Keiichi and helped him settle into his new life. Loves cute things, although her definition of cute may differ from the average person.
Sonozaki Mion:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-mion01-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-mion02-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-mion03-2.jpg
The "big sis" of the group with a cheerful personality. Always takes the lead in decision makings. Class president as well as the club president for the infamous "Club Activities". She's also the next leader of the Sonozaki house, 1 of the 3 houses that govern Hinamizawa.
Houjou Satoko:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-satoko01-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-satoko02-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-satoko03-2.jpg
The little prankster of the class who has a talent (mastery?) for trapsetting. Lively and energetic, and sneaky at times. The fact that she speaks polite language but does so incorrectly can be said as a symbol of her personality? The last picture is really a spoiler, but it builds anticipation I guess. (What could make Satoko so sad like that?)
Furude Rika:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-rika01-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-rika02-2.jpg
The innocent little girl who treatens to "cute" you to death, especially when she makes her trademark "nipa~☆" smile. According to Keiichi, she's really the sneakiest of the bunch. Sole survivor of the Furude house, 1 of the 3 houses that govern Hinamizawa.
Oishi Kuraudo:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-oishi01-2.jpg
The middle-aged police detective who will come into contact with our main characters at some point in the story.
Chie-sensei:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-chiesensei01-2.jpg
The lone teacher of Hinamizawa's school that our main characters attend at. The feeling that her appearance and her love for curry is awfully similiar to a certain Type-Moon character is only your imagination.
Tomitake Jiro:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/chara-tomitake01-2.jpg
The free cameraman who frequently visits Hinamizawa to gather photo materials. In a way, the most tragic character ever.
mangatron
2005-12-19, 01:39
Thanky you the two of you, I really appreciate it to see both of you back in here. Let's not have this hacker lower our spirits now :)
Oh, and I'm gonna find out why the "Na" is red :heh:
Thanky you the two of you, I really appreciate it to see both of you back in here. Let's not have this hacker lower our spirits now :)
Oh, and I'm gonna find out why the "Na" is red :heh:
Well, according to 07th Expansion and fans alike, the red Na is an integral part of the official title. Everyone seems to be using that out of respect for the original title.
Maebara Keiichi rules in the Watanagashi CD!!! I love Hoshi Souichirou's voice when he's up against and backdealing with Tomita-kun and Okamura-kun.
After reading through Minagoroshi-hen, I now really want to see how brilliantly the anime staff is going to do the entire "Higurashi no Naku Koroni" storyline.
Shit, I knew it was going to be very drastic, but nothing like in a scale like this!!! That was just terrifyingly wrong!!! Auauauau~!!!
Wow quad post, I see enthusiasm.:heh:
And what's "So did you get the three mangas and the Watanagashi Drama CD?"? Is that for me? I bought the mangas, but not the drama CDs (but I probably will if/when the Tatarigoroshi version comes out). I have listened to parts of it, as well as extras lying around here and there, and I really loved Satoko's voice, and Rika's, and Keiichi's, and...
Is the anime going to incorporate contents from the final chapters? But the final chapter, Saihayashi-hen, won't be out until what, Comike 70 (2006/8)?
Of course, I would love that, the "Kai" chapters have all been brilliant so far, and from some reactions (including Mr.kj here) I have seen around the net, Minagoroshi-hen doesn't seem to disappoint either.
Now then, if the shipment would only arrive...
Wow quad post, I see enthusiasm.:heh:
And what's "So did you get the three mangas and the Watanagashi Drama CD?"? Is that for me? I bought the mangas, but not the drama CDs (but I probably will if/when the Tatarigoroshi version comes out). I have listened to parts of it, as well as extras lying around here and there, and I really loved Satoko's voice, and Rika's, and Keiichi's, and...
Is the anime going to incorporate contents from the final chapters? But the final chapter, Saihayashi-hen, won't be out until what, Comike 70 (2006/8)?
Of course, I would love that, the "Kai" chapters have all been brilliant so far, and from some reactions (including Mr.kj here) I have seen around the net, Minagoroshi-hen doesn't seem to disappoint either.
Now then, if the shipment would only arrive...
Oh you should really get the drama CDs...Yukino Satsuki does an excellent job in voice acting Mion and Shion in the latest Watanagashi CD.
As for Minagoroshi-hen, one of the greatest things about this chapter is the beautiful-but-melacholic music in the final scenes... auauauau~
By the way Sushi-Y, do you have a favorite music in Higurashi? I would definitely say "thanks" and "you" from Meakashi as it portrays Shion's state of heart very beautifully. I especially love the lyrics to the vocal version of "you" in M.Graveyard's "Higurashi no Naku Koroni" original soundtrack. It's so sad, yet it matches perfectly with Shion's feelings toward Satoshi-kun at the end of Meakashi...
OP theme to be sung by... Shimamiya Eiko (produced by I've)!!Sir, you've just made my day. :D :D
OP theme to be sung by... Shimamiya Eiko (produced by I've)!!
ED theme by Katakiri Rekka! Wow! Isn't this going to be her first major debut?
That's a nice lineup ^^ I loved Katakiri Rekka's 魂の慟哭 for Tama-Soft's LOST CHILD as well, she has a really well-balanced and clear voice. Wow, I can't wait to see what kind of songs they're going to make for something like Higurashi.
Dragnfly@Gamefaqs
2006-01-27, 08:00
Daybreak got me interrested. It was a fun little game demo. That and the countless ads in magazines.
However, to avoid the inevitable flood of unmarked spoilers I'm gonna likely keep away from the thread for the most part. Still though, I have very high hopes for it.
JanthraX^
2006-01-27, 08:26
Sounds interesting, think i will have to give this one a taste!
Haven't updated this in a while:
HP updated: http://www.oyashirosama.com
Promo trailer on Animate.tv: http://www.animate.tv/pv/detail.php?id=pdv060302a&page=0&m=p&c=&sea=&tid=&rid=
And I was hoping to see some actual animation contents from the promo too... ^^; I guess we'll just have to wait until the 9th.
Even though there was no animation, I did like the trailer though. It gave you this sense of lo-fi spookiness <_<
So, who is going to buy the Tatarigoroshi-hen Drama CD (http://higurashi-cd.com/)?
So, who is going to buy the Tatarigoroshi-hen Drama CD (http://higurashi-cd.com/)?
Well, maybe, I'm not sure yet...
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9529/sa16ea.jpg
...I'm sorry, I was wrong, I will definately buy it.
===========
By the way, the official site finally added some shots from the anime!
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/3228/pict4uk.jpg
*puts down magnifying glass*
The hair highlight really stands out for me. ^^;
But other than that, it looks nice to me. The atmosphere of the sceneries seems good too.
Hrm... looks like it's been pushed backed (expectedly) to a May 27 airing on AT-X.
EDIT: Oops, maybe it's just AT-X that's airing late... though it's kind of odd for the OP/ED singles to come out that late for a show starting in early April.
eggplant
2006-03-25, 14:50
I will say only one thing about this anime, as I haven't played the game, and have only read the manga because it's serialized in the same magazine as Pani Poni: I feel sorry for the poor soul who has to go through the excruciating procedure of trying to decipher the Engrish for the ending song in order to make the karaoke subs.
I heard it live today, and it's like...please give me a break. I just pray that the recorded version can be any better.
For those of you who would like to read my report on the stage events for the Tokyo Anime Fair, please visit this site (http://oyasumi.leechanime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13).
Freakman
2006-03-26, 07:55
I hope they keep some of the tracks from the game.
If they don't put in D_Network, I'll seriously be a sad panda.
I hope they keep some of the tracks from the game.
If they don't put in D_Network, I'll seriously be a sad panda.
D...?
*starts game up and goes into music room just to check*
Ah, Digital Network, the signature "club activity" bgm. Yes, I hope they keep that too.
My personal favorite track from the question chapters was "Orange Iro no Shi" (Orange Colored Poem), I just love that calm melodic piano, it delivered the "carefree, simple countryside" feel perfectly. Same for "Heigen wo Yuku" (The track played when Rika gave Akasaka the Hinamizawa bus tour). One other track from the question chapters I hope they'd use would be "Silence". I think it presented Keiichi's feelings at the time perfectly. It was really a good track, it was a pity that it wasn't used in the answer chapters at all.
As for the answer chapters, I loved so many tracks it would be pointless to list them. I seriously hope they would make use of some of the tracks from these chapters too.
shikamarufoo
2006-03-26, 20:52
Thise looks very interesting but is there a fansub for it or any other way to watch it?
Higurashi no Naku Koroni airs April 4th, 26:00 (April 5th, 02:00 am) on Kansai TV. Plus few days to one week for fansubs. ;)
But other than that, it looks nice to me. The atmosphere of the sceneries seems good too.
I am in angst to see how they'll pull off "usoda!!"
Ayu, specifically one opped mod in Ayu's channel, said they're going to sub this. Yay.
I am in angst to see how they'll pull off "usoda!!"
I'm in angst to see "nipa~☆", I'm pretty sure it'll do some pretty big damages, if not kill me outright.
....And well! The summary of Episode 1 was released! (Source (http://www.oyashirosama.com/web/onair/index.htm))
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/01-1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/01-2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/01-3.jpg
It appears that it will run up to the point where our main character, Keiichi, learns of the strange deaths that's been associated with the village from a travelling cameraman that he met by chance.
Maybe it's time we started speaking in spoilers. ^^;
Oh yeah, the 07th Storming Party (http://07th-expansion.net/Main.htm) is having another popularity vote. I've been voting for Satoko and quietly sending my brain waves out to command others to do the same. The freaky thing is that it's working.
I'm in angst to see "nipa~☆", I'm pretty sure it'll do some pretty big damages, if not kill me outright.
....And well! The summary of Episode 1 was released! (Source (http://www.oyashirosama.com/web/onair/index.htm))
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/01-1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/01-2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/01-3.jpg
It appears that it will run up to the point where our main character, Keiichi, learns of the strange deaths that's been associated with the village from a travelling cameraman that he met by chance.
Maybe it's time we started speaking in spoilers. ^^;
Oh yeah, the 07th Storming Party (http://07th-expansion.net/Main.htm) is having another popularity vote. I've been voting for Satoko and quietly sending my brain waves out to command others to do the same. The freaky thing is that it's working.
Ooh. I love how they will be putting the episode numbers in red. Great feel.
For the popularity vote, I'm gonna keep on voting for Rika-chama and Shion. You can find my comments easily as I've written it in English!!
Wow, so they are going up to Kei-chan's initial contact with Tomitake in the first episode? I wonder if that means they are going to show each chapter separately then?
By the way, I just realized this by looking at the pictures that Sushi-Y has posted.
Mion's necktie is green!!!!
I wonder why they made that change? Personally, I think the original red necktie looks better.
While I am at it, am I the only one who thinks Rena's school skirt is short? I sincerely doubt Japanese school uniforms had such a short skirt length back in 1983. I wonder why they changed this as well. In the original game, her skirt length was much more longer, in par with the time the story is supposed to take place.
While I am at it, am I the only one who thinks Rena's school skirt is short? I sincerely doubt Japanese school uniforms had such a short skirt length back in 1983. I wonder why they changed this as well. In the original game, her skirt length was much more longer, in par with the time the story is supposed to take place.
Seeing as how the story takes place in the early 80's, I'd say that even Rena's school skirt in the game would be considered to be a little bit on the short side. Mion's would probably be the norm for the time? Satoko and Rika's skirt length would probably all be in the "miniskirt" range back then. ^^;
I liked Mion's red tie better too, it helped balance out her green hair. The green tie just... makes it really stand out instead.
Is this the point where your hopes and dreams are then slowly crushed to bits over a long period of time?:p
Is this the point where your hopes and dreams are then slowly crushed to bits over a long period of time?:p
You mean like I was disappointed with JINKI:EXTEND and Shingetsutan Tsukihime? We shall see. At least the staff for Higurashi seems to know what they are doing. At least, that's the speculation that I have for watching them do Fate/stay night.
Freakman
2006-03-31, 17:17
Kj, in your opinion, are they going to animate only Onikakushi, or will they try to do it like they did with Fate/Stay Night.... でも祭りが一度しか起これないから無理があるかと。。。
Or will they actually respect the game and do Onikakushi for example for the first 13 eps, then Watanagashi with the rest ?
いくらでもやっぱありえないな。。。
Bleh messed up japanese font orz
Kj, in your opinion, are they going to animate only Onikakushi, or will they try to do it like they did with Fate/Stay Night.... でも祭りが一度しか起これないから無理があるかと。。。
Or will they actually respect the game and do Onikakushi for example for the first 13 eps, then Watanagashi with the rest ?
いくらでもやっぱありえないな。。。
Bleh messed up japanese font orz
I think it was confirmed that this was going to be a 2 kur, 26 episode series that spans from Onikakushi to Tsumihoroboshi. Although, it would be nice if it went to Minagoroshi so it answers everything. Judging that this first episode finishes where K-chan learns about the Hinamizawa Dam Project, I think they might do four episodes per each chapter. Either case, I'll look foward to see how this story progresses.
I think it was confirmed that this was going to be a 2 kur, 26 episode series that spans from Onikakushi to Tsumihoroboshi.
I suppose we can rule out a single coherent story then... But why up to Tsumihoroboshi? Just because that's as far as the game went when the anime was being made? It feels kind of weird to have contents from 4 question chapters, but only the answer chapters for 2 of them... I wish they would add Minagoroshi too, since that's where all the most important answers are...
K-chan
Nono, it's either Kei-chan or "K". "K-chan" sort of feels like a mixup between his "cool-mode" self and "kaaii Keiichi-kun omochikaeri~~~☆" self instead... I think.
As for the first episode going all the way up to Keiichi's meeting with Tomitake... A good cut-off point, don't you think? If we go any slower, episode one would end up pretty pointless. ^^;
But 4 episodes per chapter...? That sounds impossible no matter how you think about it... Although we call them "chapters", we all know that these are really entire "scenarios" that are independent from each other, so if they really do the 4 episode per chapter thing, I can't imagine anything except a "collection of short stories, each extremely rushed" for this anime.
That's actually my biggest concern. Instead of trying to squeeze such a huge story into only 26 episodes, I would rather have them pick ONE scenario to concentrate on (Onikakushi, Watanagashi, or Tatarigoroshi), and then somehow work the "answer" (Meakashi, Tsumihoroboshi, Minagoroshi) in using the second half of episodes.
Well, we'll see, I guess.
JarOfMayo
2006-04-01, 22:40
Only a few days away and I'm soooo excited...lol... :eyespin: the art looks fine, very cute.
No time to play the game with classes and all, though I just got the rest of the chapters a bit ago :heh:
I kinda think they may give this a sort of chapter-ish feel, since it seems each chapter is a sort of cycled repeating playing out differently each time.
Not doing it like this might give a different impression of the original piece perhaps. Cause in one way we are viewing from Kei-chan's view primarily, but with multiple playouts, it is more useful to be.... uhh :confused: more third-person? So such stops-repeats-replays seem not to be aestheticly bad, but increase the mystery behind what happens more and more?
I wonder if thats understandable lol. Indeed I think ending with encountering Jirou and what Jirou first speaks of to Kei-chan makes for a suspenseful cliff-hanging episode 1.... no? lol :eyespin:
Kyousuke
2006-04-05, 12:55
Excuse me.
Thread already exists here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26477)
I've a question about the original doujin sound novels. Namely, what exactly does that mean? A visual novel with voices? Or just nice music? Or an audio CD?
I've a question about the original doujin sound novels. Namely, what exactly does that mean? A visual novel with voices? Or just nice music? Or an audio CD?
"Visual novel" is a pretty loose term to begin with, so it depends on your own interpretation.
Sound novel is actually quite similiar to visual novels: they both feature novel texts displayed on screen along with character and background visuals as well as effects, accompanied with background musics and sound effects. The term "visual novel" is born out of "sound novel" (and the term "sound novel" itself dates back to 1994's "Kamaitachi no Yoru" back in the super famicom days), and is mainly used to describe games that places a heavy emphasis on the graphical features of the game (Event CGs, high quality artworks, etc.). Many current novel-style ADV games can be classified as a visual novel.
Higurashi no Naku Koroni, on the other hand, doesn't feature all the fancy graphical bells and whistles of a visual novel, so Ryukishi07-san refers to it as a sound novel himself. Also, there are no selection points within the story at all, so it's not an ADV either.
Oh, but Higurashi does have some really nice musics though.
Freakman
2006-04-06, 15:04
I'm fearing they're rushing things like ... a lot
According to the official website, ep 2 will be :
The matsuri + after matsuri where Tommy tells Keiichi the truth about the Oyashirosama no tatari.
If they go that fast, they may actually end the episode with
The police discovering the body of Tommy
I'm fearing they're rushing things like ... a lot
According to the official website, ep 2 will be :
The matsuri + after matsuri where Tommy tells Keiichi the truth about the Oyashirosama no tatari.
If they go that fast, they may actually end the episode with
The police discovering the body of Tommy
It makes sense if you think about it though. Remember, we have to cover Onikakushi all the way up to Tsumihoroboshi in only 26 episodes, it wouldn't be strange to see a fast development.
But the comment (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/moonphase/) from MOON PHASE is correct too, as long as we have established the "happy daily life" once, there's no need to go over the normal daily stuff in detail again. Things that repeat throughout the chapters only has to be shown once in the anime. So if you think about it that way, 26 episodes actually leaves a lot of room for chapter-specific events from each scenario.
Freakman
2006-04-07, 01:47
Then are they keeping Satoko's traps for Tatarigoroshi ?
is anyone going to sub this series ?
cause i would really like to watch this and understand it too
I have a feeling that the ED song is what's keeping the sub from being released. I know I can translate everything in that episode, but that ED song is just a little... ^^; The deliberately breathy voice doesn't help either. :heh:
EDIT: With the help of some gods in 2ch + my own interpretations, here are the ED lyrics...... I think.
---------------------Ending Theme Song - "why, or why not"
To get my happiness I have done everything, but have done nothing to be blamed and accused of
The sound of footsteps became louder everyday, then I noticed the fact there was no time
I was a believer in life, to be myself always
and was asking whether I would be alive
Give me a reason why not to adapt in this way, or judge me to be guilty of so many incurable sins
Tell me why or why not, complaining way too much(?)
maybe I overlooked something fatal for me
---------------------
......Wow what's with this babblefish lyric ^^; But they do match Rena perfectly... Mion too.
I have a feeling that the ED song is what's keeping the sub from being released.
They fansub OP and ED songs too!? Wow, I learn new things everyday.
I have my cons against fansubbings, but can't they just wait until the CD is released for the actual lyrics and just go ahead and fansub the show?
I have my cons against fansubbings, but can't they just wait until the CD is released for the actual lyrics and just go ahead and fansub the show?
I agree. No offense, but the karaoke is not very important to me. ;)
It's always been a standard practice to release fansubs with karaoke + translation of the OP/EDs. I guess it just doesn't feel complete without them. A lot of people like to sing to the songs that they like, and without the karaoke, it's impossible for those people who don't know Japanese.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the English lyrics I posted are 90% accurate, the last two lines were kinda odd though, but that's what they sounded like.
Also, where would I go to get the sound novel itself?
You can also download the entire first chapter (Onikakushi-hen) at the 07th Expansion doujin site at: http://07th-expansion.net/Soft/Taiken.htm
but can't they just wait until the CD is released for the actual lyrics and just go ahead and fansub the show?
The lyrics to some karaokes do get revised when the official lyrics are out.
But in general first episodes take longer to come out precisely because they're formatting the OP / ED.
The lyrics to some karaokes do get revised when the official lyrics are out.Even if the official lyrics are out, there is no guarantee with engrish songs in karaoke that they'll be adjusted to what's written in the CD outlet. Their English could be b0rken severely. :|
EDIT: Perhaps I should make a request to AnimeSuki staff to keep the original japanese title romaji of the series (preferably with the na), if they decide to list it.
Thelastguardian
2006-04-11, 01:20
There is not sub for this series yet? I am surprised :^/ .
Of course, with those two ( ;) ) fanning the oven this madly, I don't have much to add except
I don't think it is humanly possible for the studio to drop the ball for this story ;) .
I don't think it is humanly possible for the studio to drop the ball for this story ;) .
?? I think there are a million and one ways they can screw up the anime, everything from bad pacing to bad scripting to messing up/underdelivering on the critical scenes.
Not that I'm saying it'll happen, but Higurashi is probably one of the hardest stories to animate yet. The manga adaptations already had to cut out the "tips", and even then, they're still split up by the chapter and drawn by different mangakas. The anime has to play out each chapter in an incredibly short period of time (only a few episodes for each chapter), WHILE somehow maintaining the tempo (the game can start slow with each new chapter because the fans will have waited for months already, so they can slowly work themselves back into the "mood". The anime can't do that. "Resetting" the story after every couple of episodes will definately ruin the mood for the anime-watchers, not to mention the "wtf?" factor). Also, some contents are more important than others (Himatsubushi, for example, isn't nearly as important as the others), while others overlap, so it's very important to see how well they distribute their resources (episode counts) to cover everything properly.
One problem is definitely the lack of the TIPS factor, which is also lacking in the manga adaptation. While it may not be needed as the manga does a good job in portraying the creepiness, the TIPS are an important part of giving clues to the reader in the original doujin game. I don't know, perhaps they'll add something on those limited edition first press DVDs.
Another factor that might go wrong is how to maintain the pace. Too quick can make the story seem cheesy, too slow would eat up precious time for an anime slotted for only 2 kur. At the same time, they need to run through five or six chapters for the story, so that makes it all the more difficult.
Maybe if this was done by Kyo-Ani, I wouldn't be worried. But then again, being selected to be worthy of Kyo-Ani production itself is an honor www.
Eleutheria
2006-04-11, 04:57
You can also download the entire first chapter (Onikakushi-hen) at the 07th Expansion doujin site at: http://07th-expansion.net/Soft/Taiken.htm
Oh! Thanks for reminding me that I downloaded the first chapter... I completely forgot about it -__-;;
Re:sushi-y, I sent them an email and they now list the two CD-roms on their site. The 19 dollar shipping fee for the first item is a bit steep though...
The 19 dollar shipping fee for the first item is a bit steep though...
Alternatively, you could try and dig up copies of the series via Yahoo! Japan Auctions (http://search.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/search/auc?p=%A4%D2%A4%B0%A4%E9%A4%B7%A4%CE%A4%CA%A4%AF%B A%A2%A4%CB&auccat=0&alocale=0jp&acc=jp) using Akibado's (http://www.akibado.com) auction service. However, be warned that it can sometimes take a while for the items to be fully processed. My shipment of goods from Comiket 69 took them about a month in total to process and ship out. Was definitely worth it though.
Eleutheria
2006-04-15, 14:55
Kinda off-topic but does anyone have the source for this image?
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2043/higurashi5se.th.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=higurashi5se.jpg)
Still waiting for ep.2 to finish downloading...
It's from some group called HKG Fansub Group. I see their releases on simplified chinese bittorrent sites.
It seems to be a simplified translation of the introduction to the anime. Lays out what was told to us by the first couple episodes. I think I read the Japanese version on 7th Dimension's website.
PS: Rena's VA sounded very familiar...did she voice in another anime recently?
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=438
Most recent works would be Strawberry Panic! & Utawarerumono.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=438
Most recent works would be Strawberry Panic! & Utawarerumono.
No wonder...I was like, its Yuuna from Kage Kara Mamoru!:D
Thanks for the information.
Gwah! She's also Maika from Magikano, Nagisa in Strawberry Panic, Mai in Mai Hime (and more importantly for the point I'm about to make, Mai Otome), Misaki in Tactical Roar, Chitose in both seasons of Amaenaideyo, and Yuzui in Utawarerumono (and literally tons of other recent series I'm leaving out). She's BUSY.
More on topic, I actually liked the first episode okay. The comedy wasn't great, but it seems like it's there more to offset the upcoming drama.
It has managed to fan my interest in the game.
It has managed to fan my interest in the game.
I know what you mean, i've played a bit of the game a while back, but i think now i'll enjoy it more after i've seen the whole series.
Freakman
2006-04-18, 11:53
Imho, it'd be a better experience to play the game unspoiled than to play it knowing all of the major plot events.
Xellos-_^
2006-04-18, 12:02
Imho, it'd be a better experience to play the game unspoiled than to play it knowing all of the major plot events.
Not really, the anime i believed only covers a potion of the game and it is mysteries. The game would also be much more in depth.
spend several days in a hospital due to food poisoning, and I see that this show is moved to a different section...
Imho, it'd be a better experience to play the game unspoiled than to play it knowing all of the major plot events.
I'd agree with you if we were talking about another game, but not this.
I can be sure that the anime's not gonna have everything from the game, even if the anime is 26 episodes.
JanthraX^
2006-04-18, 13:08
spend several days in a hospital due to food poisoning, and I see that this show is moved to a different section...
oo, you better now right?
Yeah the way it started was pretty crazy, beating those 2 girls with a metal baseball bat, and the sound effects =[
weird and chilling hopefully it gets more 'chilling'
and HimeyaShop is out of stock concerning the sound novels. Argh...
Check CDJapan, i'm sure they're instock there. ^^
aliensporebomb
2006-04-19, 18:18
Okay - so I downloaded this thing because I knew nothing about the game
and one of the things I do sometimes is grab something I know absolutely
nothing about because you never know if you'll like it or not.
That opening scene in episode one - holy crap - talk about brutality!
Then it goes to some normal type sweet anime stuff.
I had to head to work but now I have to watch it all to figure out what
the hell I just saw.
DoReMiFaSo
2006-04-19, 18:47
I am liking this series more and more.
The first episode is kind of boring with all those not-so-funny comedic moments, but then it gets more and more creepy. By now, after three episodes, I am hooked.
By the way, I heard that the game is composed of different parts. Does that mean each part is an independant story with different characters?
I know it is rural Japan in the 70s and all, but for god's sake, when you suspect someone is trying to kill you, LOCK THE DOORS! Sheesh. What's so hard about that.
x 1970s
o more specifically, it is 1983
Also, when you are in a state of mind where the fear of being killed is intense, locking the door is not a assurance of safety. Someone can easily break the doorknob or smash through the windows.
I am beginning to suspect if Rena and Mion's psycho mode is some sort of hullucination on Keiichi's part :/ .
(￣ー￣)ﾆﾔﾘｯ
I am liking this series more and more.
The first episode is kind of boring with all those not-so-funny comedic moments, but then it gets more and more creepy. By now, after three episodes, I am hooked.
By the way, I heard that the game is composed of different parts. Does that mean each part is an independant story with different characters?
Semi-independent story, same characters. But as the story progresses, you learn some of the mystery in the previous chapter, yet opens up to more secrets at the same time. And you learn that everything has a meaning, and that those semi-independent stories are actually connected in some certain way.
AsukaFan
2006-04-19, 21:23
Question for people that have played the game, although it's not a specific one. Regardless, it would be best if you kept the answers in spoilers since I would feel bad if I ruined it for somebody.
Anyway, is the ending depressing? I don't need specifics, I'd just like to know in general. There's nothing I dislike more than unhappy endings, and despite how good the story is rumored to be, I would prefer missing the series if it's just going to be a 26-episode downer.
The only reason I ask is I look at the first few minutes and think to myself "Okay, the two main girls are going to go crazy evil and the main character is going to kill them with a baseball bat. Alternately, the main character could go crazy evil and kill them with a baseball bat. Regardless, the two main girls and death by baseball bat seem pretty much assured." Maybe I'm wrong (which seems perfectly possible on such a weird show), but it's worth asking in advance what I'm getting into.
Anyway, is the ending depressing? I don't need specifics, I'd just like to know in general. There's nothing I dislike more than unhappy endings, and despite how good the story is rumored to be, I would prefer missing the series if it's just going to be a 26-episode downer.
There are many different endings. What you think it is is just the tip of the iceberg. Happy or unhappy, it ain't that simple for this anime. The ending is "see if you can figure out the mystery."
Keiichi got it coming when he got the needle in the sweets. He should have known better. I was wondering whether the sweets would contain poison when Rena handed him the goods. Come on, get some common sense.
I'm not sure what first-time watchers might think about that scene, but in the game, it wasn't that clear cut. Keiichi was in a state of confusion, he wasn't sure about Rena and Mion, and the thought that everything is just a product of his paranoia had also crossed his mind. Also, remember this: despite the fact that the anime is making Rena look like the number one suspect of all the wrongdoings in the world, there has been no physical evidence that would support that claim, until that "needle" in the ohagi, which was the FIRST concrete sign to Keiichi that "someone's after his life". Don't be so quick to make judgements about Rena simply because she got freaky a couple of times. And that rule remains the same even after this ohagi incident.
Take everything you see with a grain of salt, just because you're shown something doesn't mean it's true. That's my advise as a game-player to anyone watching this show for the first-time.
I know it is rural Japan in the 70s and all, but for god's sake, when you suspect someone is trying to kill you, LOCK THE DOORS! Sheesh. What's so hard about that.
He did, after he received his first concrete proofs that his life might be in danger (the ohagi incident and the white wagon).
I am beginning to suspect if Rena and Mion's psycho mode is some sort of hullucination on Keiichi's part :/ .
(￣ー￣)ﾆﾔﾘｯ
(´・ω・)ﾚﾅｶﾞｶﾜｲｿｳ．．．
I dont understand why he talks to the cop.
The police officer is to me the most suspicious of all the characters.
He just knows way to much, and shows up at the strangest times.
I would tell that suspicious oyaji NOTHING.
Imagine this: It's possible that your friends and/or some unknown entities are after your life, you're lost and don't know who to turn to. And along comes a law enforcer who, despite looking a little fishy, has been totally helpful and supportive of you. I'd think that most people would rather choose to be cooperative with Oishi (the police detective) and gain an ally, rather than taking their chances on their own.
Second, why is he being so circumspect about the needle in the anko.
If Rena did that to me I would outright demand an explanation. Maybe he should
visit her house and ring her doorbell.
Really? Wow, you got guts. If this was in real life, I sure as hell wouldn't run up to the house of someone who I think just tried to kill me. What's stopping her from coming out with an axe and finishing the job?
And when she says he "transferred", why doesnt he challenge it?
I would immediately ask "Do you mean he's dead?" "Did you kill him?"
"Have you ever killed anyone?". They seem like perfectly resonable questions.
Heck, even "Why did you lie to me".
He was too busy being shocked about the fact that he's doing exactly the same things as someone who disappeared before him.
And writing notes and taping them to the back of a clock? He's begging to die almost.
It's a little cliché yes, but it's also a very valid precaution to take.
Anyway, is the ending depressing? I don't need specifics, I'd just like to know in general. There's nothing I dislike more than unhappy endings, and despite how good the story is rumored to be, I would prefer missing the series if it's just going to be a 26-episode downer.
Even the original game hasn't reached the final chapter with the true ending yet, so nobody really knows how the anime will end. The endings for each individual chapters can also vary. If you're interested in the story at all, you should just stick around, it'd be a waste to miss out Higurashi simply because of some doubts about the ending.
AsukaFan
2006-04-19, 23:38
If you're interested in the story at all, you should just stick around, it'd be a waste to miss out Higurashi simply because of some doubts about the ending.
I will trust you almost entirely due to your adorable Haruhi sig, but I'm warning you that I don't have a gun but I could probably get one if things don't go well. I would need your address, though, so I'm counting on your sense of fair play for that.
There are many different endings. What you think it is is just the tip of the iceberg. Happy or unhappy, it ain't that simple for this anime. The ending is "see if you can figure out the mystery."
Are you for real? :twitch: I really hope there is at least SOME closure...
Shenlong
2006-04-20, 02:02
Is anyone bloggin this series?
Kinda suprise neither omi or memento is blogging it.
Try searching blogsuki.com
evil-samurai
2006-04-20, 04:26
Watch episode 2 and it was Great! I dont mind the comedy moments they aren't horrible to watch for me more so they were nicely done at a good pace. In a way it make the horror value of the show even better (more shocking).
I like psychotic/broken characters but they aren't brought out that well alot of times. Though here they get to the point fast, which I like. Also it was good because it was only a little side we saw of her, and there is more to come *looks at the opening* The transistion was wonderfull to say the least, but I think her small short scream could of been done a little better.
Eleutheria
2006-04-20, 09:17
I splurged and bought the seven chapters (2 CDs) from Himeya.
...that one scene with the needle is just continuously bothering me
The way I eat bean cakes will ensure that I never get poked by a needle. For Kira, though, it should have shown blood oozing from his lips.
Are you for real? :twitch: I really hope there is at least SOME closure...
There is closure. Too bad the anime won't get to the chapter where they explain everything. But doing so ruins the fun of the mystery, so it's a double-edged sword. The interesting part about this title was that as it was confidently touted: "less than 1% can figure out the entireity of this story."
I am not sure how scolding or confronting her would achieve much at all. She could simply claim that the needle in the ohagi was an accident. If she denied everything, what are you going to do? Unless you are willing to kill her, I doubt one can do anything to improve the situation. The way I see it, provoking a murderer is probably a bad idea and most likely will hasten your death instead.
The way I eat bean cakes will ensure that I never get poked by a needle. For Kira, though, it should have shown blood oozing from his lips.
Word of advice, don't take what you are watching so straightfowardly:
who said the needle was there for real? There is a good reason why Kei-chan cannot find the needle and why he isn't bleeding from his lips.
Just because of the fact that I am pervert :p :heh: but did anyone else notice what the waitress was wearing in the cafe where Kei and the detective was meeting? It looks kinda cosplayish. Was that something Japanese cafe waitress wear in the 70s :eyebrow: :D
People don't get it do they? (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=535857&postcount=124)
x 1970s
o More precisely, 1983
The 70s and 80s encompass totally different decades, as much as the 1990s differ from the first decades of our 21st century.
Interestingly, many of our restaurant uniforms are very cute, but I don't ever recall going to a Royal Host when I was a kid back in the eighties to see that much skin. I guess Angel Mort is way ahead of its time wwww. Damn power of Sonozaki family! They KNOW what's gonna be big ten years from their time!!! (It's also a reference joke inserted in the original game where one member of the Sonozaki family is stockpiling large amounts of used school uniforms for sale to perverts. "According to him, he says it'll become a big underground enterprise in about ten years!!")
Freakman
2006-04-20, 13:47
Well, he based the 1% off 100 mails after Onikakushi, but I wonder if 1% of the player base came up with even half of what Minagoroshi revealed.
But then, is all of Minagoroshi even true ? :p
And Xellos : I don't know how much of it they will show, but expect more strange stuff from that restaurant ^^
Xellos-_^
2006-04-20, 15:43
And Xellos : I don't know how much of it they will show, but expect more strange stuff from that restaurant ^^
i will be sure to keep my eye on the waitress :D :p :naughty:
But then, is all of Minagoroshi even true ? :p
If even the answer chapters contain false truths, then we might as well give up. :heh:
Word of advice, don't take what you are watching so straightforwardly:
who said the needle was there for real? There is a good reason why Kei-chan cannot find the needle and why he isn't bleeding from his lips.
I noticed that problem with the anime when I was replying to a PM from Freakman. The game was played out in first-person point of view (Keiichi), so no matter how "real" or "obvious" things appeared, the fact that the ENTIRE story was seen through Keiichi's eyes doesn't change. In other words, we're only seeing Keiichi's version of the world, and there is no absolute truth. That's Onikakushi's 1% that 99% of the people missed.
But the anime, on the other hand, is shown through a third-person point of view. Instead of us seeing things through Keiichi's eyes, we're seeing things from an observer's view, which would make everything that happens in the anime appear to look like they're 100% truths. When Keiichi almost got run over by the white van, even through the anime made it look like the driver was obviously aiming for him (the U-turn, the driver's 'tsk' after missing Keiichi), we (or rather, Keiichi) never saw any of that in the game (in fact, the driver actually honked before trying to "run Keiichi over" in the game). For the game, we can try to analyze "well, did the driver really try to run Keiichi over or not?" But in the anime, first-time viewers would probably assume "the white van tried to run Keiichi over" as a fact and move on, even though that wouldn't necessarily be the case.
A major focus within Onikakushi was also on Keiichi's own internal conflicts: his own doubts about his friends, then trust, and then doubt again. Keiichi was constantly fighting with himself about what to believe in, and hammering out what he believes to be appropriate responses/countermeasures. Unfortunately, the anime never really tried to get into Keiichi's head and explain any of this.
Freakman
2006-04-20, 18:09
It's not like the anime actually had the *time* to do any of that ^^;
Since I'm translating the anime into french, I was checking the game script for those whispers in ep 2, and as you said, we don't get to hear these kind of comments from Keiichi :
しかし……どうして俺は寝たふりをしながら仲間の会話を盗み聞かなきゃならないんだろう…
後ろめたさに…胸が痛んだ。
Translation in spoiler for those that have seen ep 2 and want some more info:
"But why do I have to pretend to be sleeping so I can listen to my friends talking ?
The guilt made my heart ache."
For kj & sushi [ note : there's no direct spoiler for anything, but anyway non game players shouldn't be reading this ^^ ]
If even the answer chapters contain false truths, then we might as well give up.
I was reading some interesting posts on the official boards from a couple elite 妄想者.
I read that 30% of the mysteries were still unsolved, yet Minagoroshi seems to leave much less.
Which led them to believe that there's something we're missing. One was claiming Minagoroshi was a giant trap from the author, but I can't quite think that's true. But I can't think the author will just go straight for the letsusehanyugohappyending.... かいかぶり過ぎるなのでは(汗
Also, I can't believe I never did the connection between フルデリカ and Frederica berncantspellit. But I also saw something that seemed to deny that.
I guess I'd better just forget about all of this until July :D
I noticed that problem with the anime when I was replying to a PM from Freakman. The game was played out in first-person point of view (Keiichi), so no matter how "real" or "obvious" things appeared, the fact that the ENTIRE story was seen through Keiichi's eyes doesn't change. In other words, we're only seeing Keiichi's version of the world, and there is no absolute truth. That's Onikakushi's 1% that 99% of the people missed.
But the anime, on the other hand, is shown through a third-person point of view. Instead of us seeing things through Keiichi's eyes, we're seeing things from an observer's view, which would make everything that happens in the anime appear to look like they're 100% truths. When Keiichi almost got run over by the white van, even through the anime made it look like the driver was obviously aiming for him (the U-turn, the driver's 'tsk' after missing Keiichi), we (or rather, Keiichi) never saw any of that in the game (in fact, the driver actually honked before trying to "run Keiichi over" in the game). For the game, we can try to analyze "well, did the driver really try to run Keiichi over or not?" But in the anime, first-time viewers would probably assume "the white van tried to run Keiichi over" as a fact and move on, even though that wouldn't necessarily be the case.
A major focus within Onikakushi was also on Keiichi's own internal conflicts: his own doubts about his friends, then trust, and then doubt again. Keiichi was constantly fighting with himself about what to believe in, and hammering out what he believes to be appropriate responses/countermeasures. Unfortunately, the anime never really tried to get into Keiichi's head and explain any of this.
THAT SHOULD REALLY BE IN SPOILER TAGS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME.
But of course, that is what makes the anime a little bit more interesting, as it portrays the view of we all thought at first when we went through Onikakushi. I'm going to be interested to see how they are going to make up for it as the anime progresses. One the fine points the game is that as a visual novel, everything that you read - you imagine yourself. That's why as Kei-chan says the white van aimed for him, we can only imagine it visually in our minds that they really did aim for him, whereas it wasn't clearly shown how it was. And with the words written through the minds of Kei-chan, we are meant to assume that that was actually the truth. But, as you said in the anime, the entire story is shown in third-person in the way how Kei-chan saw it, which make the events distorted in a sense that this is all reality with no absolute factor for anyone thinking it otherwise.
Now if perhaps they were able to pull off an excellent first-person view of the world as Kyo-Ani has done in Suzumiya Haruhi, some of these internal conflicts going in within Kei-chan might've been exerted to the viewers.
Freakman
2006-04-20, 18:28
Why don't you edit it then ? ^^
Why don't you edit it then ? ^^
Because I'm not a moderator here....yet.
Freakman
2006-04-20, 18:45
世界を目指せ、kj殿!ふぁいと、おです！
Shadowscar
2006-04-20, 18:48
Man i wish this was its own Forum section cause then there be a cool guess the ending part for those of us who dont wanna read the spoilers!
but ya i guess the drunken hobo under the bridge did it (not really but meh)
Episode 2 was definately creepy with that girl getting all mad damnnnnn
Paracelsus
2006-04-20, 18:54
Plus, that "touch" from the typesetter, who made the line "IT'S A LIE!!!!" big, red and shaky....that, and rena's predator look scared the hell out of me <.<;;;
Shadowscar
2006-04-20, 18:55
Plus, that "touch" from the typesetter, who made the line "IT'S A LIE!!!!" big, red and shaky....that, and rena's predator look scared the hell out of me <.<;;;
lol if i was him id be like #@$& im out of here your walking home alone and then id carry around a sword or something... none of this small dagger crap she was freaky...
lol if i was him id be like #@$& im out of here your walking home alone and then id carry around a sword or something... none of this small dagger crap she was freaky...
oh trust me, she'll get even creepier than that.
I hope Studio Deen can pull off the broken-record laughter/anger Rena scene quite well like in the manga version of Onikakushi. That one was pulled off extremely well with Suzuragi Karin's art; it really shivered me again even when I knew what to expect.
I need to get my hands on the OP and ED theme.
Normally I don't enjoy gruesome stuff, but I'll watch this, the mystery seems interesting enough.
Xellos-_^
2006-04-21, 10:36
I need to get my hands on the OP and ED theme.
Normally I don't enjoy gruesome stuff, but I'll watch this, the mystery seems interesting enough.
Who doesn't enjoy watching lolis at work with sharp objects :heh:
Who doesn't enjoy watching lolis at work with sharp objects :heh:
:p Nah, I'd rather keep lolis away from sharp objects, if they're gonna be like those.
I don't think we need this show to be destroyed by loli lovers. ^^;;
Word of advice, don't take what you are watching so straightfowardly
I am curious and have decided to rewatch the series to find out what might be misinterpreted.....
Is there something else present in the initial killing scene? I though I saw something moving around ...... very creepy.
When I first watched this scene, I was under the impression that Keiichi was pulverizing Rena and Mion...... Now I am thinking Keiichi might actually be beating that thingy instead. Guess I will find out next week.
For those who have played the game, I have one question : does this story involve anything supernatural?
Slightly OT, does Fox Mask (the one Rika is holding in the OP) has any symbolism in Japan? I have seen these kind of masks appearing in several films already.
For those who have played the game, I have one question : does this story involve anything supernatural?
That's part of the mystery and an important part of the game to thinking which faction you were on.
Are you the supernatural faction that believes in something un-human at work? Or are you in the rational faction that believes there is no such this as a supernatural; that everything has a reason and there is human culprit behind everything.
Should this series gets its own forum, that's one forum that I'll make to keep in accordance with one of the interesting portions from the original game - "Supernatural forces at work vs rational reasoning"
But then again, with numerous twists and turns, you'll be tempted to move from one faction to another many times. By the next chapter Watanagashi, you think you've got it right.....then you are in-your-faced with you thought wrong!!!.
and for those who have played the game up to Minagoroshi:
Please refrain from spoiling Hanyuu
Xellos-_^
2006-04-21, 13:06
Should this series gets its own forum, that's one forum that I'll make to keep in accordance with one of the interesting portions from the original game - "Supernatural forces at work vs rational reasoning"
How many post does this thread need for its own forum?
Question,
How many parts does this story has? Does each part have the same character or different characters? It is continous or does part B takes place x number of years after part A?
How many post does this thread need for its own forum?
Question,
How many parts does this story has? Does each part have the same character or different characters? It is continous or does part B takes place x number of years after part A?
1. Ask a mod that question.
2. You can check out the game section of Higurashi (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26475) which answers your question. That thread will likely need many spoiler tags now.
By the way, am I the only person who thinks that spoiler tags have no meaning? It's like a red do-not-touch button. People will press it anyway, and then they yap about how they shouldn't have read it. I guess this is one of those dillemmas where the game has been out for quite some time, there is a quite a large amount of people who have played it already, so there will be spoilers flying around ruining the interest for people outside of Japan who haven't played the game. Oh well, the spoiler tag is there for a reason, and if people are dumb enough to read it beforehand that's their loss I guess.
Sushi-Y and others who have played the game, please go and edit/delete your posts in the game thread to prevent it from being spoiler heavy. It would be greatly be appreciated.
By the way, am I the only person who thinks that spoiler tags have no meaning? It's like a red do-not-touch button. People will press it anyway, and then they yap about how they shouldn't have read it. No, it's not just you. They're basically pointless. Which is part of the reason why it amuses me so much to see what people will and will not wrap in them. That being said, sometimes the spoilers actually INcrease my interest in a show. Higurashi no Naku Koroni was interesting one way or the other, but the only reason I started to get into Suzumiya Haruhi was because of some of the spoilers.
aliensporebomb
2006-04-21, 15:14
I haven't read all of the messages in this forum thread but can anyone clue me
in to where I can get the great opening/closing themes for this. The opening
theme in particular is really compelling - aggressive bass and hard charging
and dramatic keyboard/vocal themes.
More great music in an interesting story.
I haven't read all of the messages in this forum thread but can anyone clue me
in to where I can get the great opening/closing themes for this. The opening
theme in particular is really compelling - aggressive bass and hard charging
and dramatic keyboard/vocal themes.
More great music in an interesting story.
Seems like CDJapan (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/) is the norm for people outside of Japan to buy CDs.
OP theme "Higurashi no Naku Koroni" (Shimamiya Eiko) (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/(complex,mint)/detailview.html?KEY=FCCM-135)
goes on sale May 24th
ED theme "why, or why not" (Katakiri Rekka)
goes on sale June 28th
Damn... The release dates are too far... :(
[spoiler=ep 3]So is it confirmed that Minagoroshi (points to early discussions in this thread) will be left out or are you refering to the unreleased 8th answer chapter. IMO while figuring out the mystery is fun, you said it that the story is full of twists and <1% gets it. Without all the answers and I heard Minogoroshi has lots of them, the anime-only foreign fans will be left in the cold unless we pick up the game or a kind gamer posts a summary when all of it ends. Well if they really do leave out Minagoroshi in the TV run, I hope it's because they are planning an OVA together with the final chapter or something.
I believe it was released to the fans that it was indeed to go up to Tsumihoroboshi (6th chapter).
The answers will come in subsequent episodes, so you don't need to be worried about being left out of the loop. Its just that more questions will indeed arise in which they will be answered in other chapters as well also. But who knows? Perhaps they are working on an extra DVD release for Minagoroshi which will practically explain everything.
Example: How the hell did Mion know that Kei-chan was with Oishi the police detective in the restaurant? This is answered rather simply in the next chapter, Watanagashi. You think it's freaky that how she could find out, but once you find out the answer in the beginning part of Watanagashi, you go "oh~, so it was that simple. damn, I got all scared for nothing." Then, more freaky shit happens that makes your head spin.
DeuceTrick
2006-04-21, 15:49
I haven't read all of the messages in this forum thread but can anyone clue me in to where I can get the great opening/closing themes for this.
Until the single CD is out, you will have to make do with TV rips. Those aren't too hard to find, though.
So, I just finished watching the first two episodes. I avoided this show at first, because I assumed that "murder mystery" meant something like "Ah-ha, Colonel Mustard killed her in the attic! With a candlestick!" The pilot episode wasn't very reassuring, but I kept watching anyway because the opening promised something really intense.
And then the second episode... Wow.
That's the first time I was genuinely freaked out by anime.
BluWacky
2006-04-21, 16:02
Is anyone bloggin this series?
Kinda suprise neither omi or memento is blogging it.
I am!
But my site's down. Bugger.
And there's a few other people blogging it, but since none of us post five million screencaps within five seconds of the show airing I guess no-one notices ;)
Paracelsus
2006-04-21, 17:54
Baseball bat ftw?!! Don't tell me Li' Slugger from Paranoia Agent is there also! :twitch:
Not rly. Keiichi (...like the name of the detective in Paranoia Agent :uhoh: ) does not go around on a batting rampage on golden rollerblades. He's the haunted >.>
At least, for now <.<
Wow. Seriously intense and creepy stuff. I myself was wondering what that was moving around at the opening bokusatsu scene. For a second, it looked a little bit like blood seeping back into the bodies.
Anyway, I'm not making any conclusions yet. Seems to me that the girls' behavior could be suspicious, or it could be the sort of extreme, deranged paranoia that can only come when someone really IS out to get you. Basically, anyone who's spent his preteen life surrounded by genuine accounts of people dying mysteriously and others being "demoned away" would be likely to suspect everyone.
Actually, this feels a bit like the Blade Children. Surrounded by death, waiting for it to finally reach out for them, they react like cornered animals, determined to destroy before being destroyed. The eyes even go to slits at times. Only difference is this time, the guy stuck up to his head in this is not some brilliant deductive genius whose head grows clearer as he grows more panicked. It's just a seriously freaked out guy who doesn't know anyone well enough to know what to think.
I liked nakahara mai here. She seems very good at producing those mood swings from cute idiot to furious nut.
Sinestra
2006-04-21, 19:05
Watched the first 2 its definetly got me intrested i really like the animation and charcters are quite nice. I love mysteries and of course lots of blood. dont really have any comments yet i want to see more but so far cant complain
Guardian Enzo
2006-04-21, 21:10
Well, episode 2 certainly ratcheted up the creepiness factor a few thousand percent. With so much packed into the first two eps, I suspect I'll be exhausted by the time this is over - that's going to be an awful lot of deadly-serious plot, and I don't see a lot of filler eps on the way.
Eleutheria
2006-04-22, 18:43
I just started the (free download) onikakushi-hen, and it really is much slower, which was to be expected... still haven't gotten to the first club meeting yet.
The constant apologizing scene from the prologue completely eludes me. Was he dreaming...?
Ep2 just shot my evaluation of this series to a top-tier A-level.
Damn.
I, mean...
Damn.
Ep2 just shot my evaluation of this series to a top-tier A-level.
Damn.
I, mean...
Damn.
You've just scratched the surface... there are 24 more episodes of twists and turns, and hell of a lot more mystery and suspense.
Xellos-_^
2006-04-24, 13:53
You've just scratched the surface... there are 24 more episodes of twists and turns, and hell of a lot more mystery and suspense.
How much is the anime going to cover and is it going to have a original ending or will the anime just leave ending opening until more material is publish?
How much is the anime going to cover and is it going to have a original ending or will the anime just leave ending opening until more material is publish?
I think I've explained that many times already. Please use the search function or at least check previous posts.
mmm... actually i don't know yet about that. lol
I just wanted to say i'm impressed everyone agrees with the fact ep.2 completely makes it up for the so-so beginning (apart from the op, mind-blowing, imhb). That's sort of a risk the scenarists took, don't you think? :cool:
I mean after that plain ep.1, i know many people like me who would just not wait for ep.2. Well, this time, I did, because i liked the op, and i'm not disappointed. Hope i was right, because from now on i'm gonnal long for the subs. ^^
can sum1 tell me about the plot? Like where's the story headed. I've read the other summaries on like nfo and newsnetwork, but they kinda just describe what is happening. I want to noe what kind of problem they are trying to solve (from my point seems like the mystery of the disappearing ppl), if any, or it's just one of those stories that just tells about a person's life, and nothing is really accomplished. (hard to explain....= =)
can sum1 tell me about the plot? Like where's the story headed. I've read the other summaries on like nfo and newsnetwork, but they kinda just describe what is happening. I want to noe what kind of problem they are trying to solve (from my point seems like the mystery of the disappearing ppl), if any, or it's just one of those stories that just tells about a person's life, and nothing is really accomplished. (hard to explain....= =)
It's a story that leads you mind fucked because they more the secret is revealed, the more mystery it uncovers. And a gruesome one at that as well. The plot? Shit happens in a small town in the early 1980s. Serious shit happens, and many people get involved - directly and indirectly. The objective is for you (the viewer) to figure out what the heck is going on. Just when you think you got it, you are bitch slapped in the face for being so wrong. More mystery and suspense follows. When everything is revealed in the end, the shock value is tremendous and you have a sense of rapport for the members that you have grown to love and cheer for.
After hearing kj1980 explain the some what idea of the story, i think i'm safe to say that this is going to be one of my fav' shows. ^_^;
Xellos-_^
2006-04-24, 18:05
Don't forget the really revealing waitress outfits :D
Hmm, just rewatched episode two - and it still puzzles me how well Keiichi is known in the village..
Hm.. so I assume this is in chapters? Like, 24 episodes separated into different stories with different people? Or something else..? Doesn't feel like this current chapter could possibly last till the 24th episode.
Freakman
2006-04-24, 23:02
Angelsama : While it's not too insisted on in the anime, just think of it. Hinamizawa is a very small rural village.
A family of 3 moving in is pretty much an event.
So Keiichi being known isn't exactly surprising.
Angelsama : While it's not too insisted on in the anime, just think of it. Hinamizawa is a very small rural village.
A family of 3 moving in is pretty much an event.
So Keiichi being known isn't exactly surprising.
Naaah, thats not what i mean't - doesn't it bother you why the police officer ask Keiichi.. he didn't see him talking to Tomitake & that woman.. and then you have the question of how did the woman know his name..
Freakman
2006-04-26, 10:06
Haha.
It is.
But then, not exactly :)
It covers different events in the same time frame (well almost ^.^)
Freakman
2006-04-26, 23:21
Actually, them not showing a particular scene kind of hampers first time viewer's ability to figure it out.
(Nothing too precise, but still)
(Kj, feel free to delete it if it's too much, but I think i was vague enough ^.^)
The scene between club members and Tomitake after the festival
+ Mion's words right before she gets killed. (同じ目にあうor something like that)
(Kj, feel free to delete it if it's too much, but I think i was vague enough ^.^)
The scene between club members and Tomitake after the festival
+ Mion's words right before she gets killed. (同じ目にあうor something like that)
I actually don't have moderator rights to this section...yet.
Actually, them not showing a particular scene kind of hampers first time viewer's ability to figure it out.
(Nothing too precise, but still)
(Kj, feel free to delete it if it's too much, but I think i was vague enough ^.^)
The scene between club members and Tomitake after the festival
+ Mion's words right before she gets killed. (同じ目にあうor something like that)
Good catch, I suppose "misses" like that can cause some misleading beliefs for the first time viewers (although they wouldn't know it themselves). But in the overall scheme of things, it's probably not that big of an issue.
Then again, if they wanted to show Tomitake's scene with the club members at the end of the festival, then they would have to show the entire event in the festival where Tomitake joined Keiichi and the others in their club activities, the target shooting game, etc.. Given the limited amount of time they have, I guess the anime staff deemed it to be insignificant enough to cut out.
Of course, cutting the entire Watanagashi festival down to only a few still shots was a pity in itself. Personally, I wanted to see Keiichi's "fur seal" and Rena kissing Keiichi after he gave her the plush bear myself. :heh: (On the other hand, showing Rena's cute and shy side is pretty important too, it makes her "oyashirosama-mode" all the more significant since it invokes thoughts like "Is this really the same Rena who kissed Keiichi out of joy during the festival!?" Again, a pity they weren't able to cover that far)
Harlequin101
2006-04-27, 01:03
Someone in a previous post said that it was weird for Keiichi to be afraid of the injection and then for the scene to cut to him having beaten the life out of his "captors".
Honestly, I think Keiichi *was* injected by the shot, and it made him go berserk for some reason and he ended up killing the two (very desireable *coughs*) girls. Also at the very end of the episode, there's a lot of blood, but I'm not even sure he died, since there were no wounds on his body at all. That blood in the phone booth confused the hell out of me. Maybe there was a side-effect to the shot he was given?
My Theory: The injection Keiichi was given is very important to the story. Hell, it could be that the entire village is on drugs or something. Then again, I couldn't really understand all the dialogue, so this could be 100% wrong and I'll be chopped into six pieces by rabid fans pretty soon. :uhoh:
wtb more spoilers from those who played the game. spoiler tags with warning of course :D
i cant wait! :p
Kyousuke
2006-04-27, 01:57
http://www.oyashirosama.com/web/special/index.htm
They keep changing the banners on the site. o_o
Awesome anime, I think it's the best of this genre I have ever seen.
It's possible to find somewhere the game and the manga in english?
Even an amatorial translation would be fine. Thanks
physics223
2006-04-27, 08:43
I really am having second thoughts on watching this anime, but from what I've read in the first eight pages (before the spoilers arrived) was that this is a pretty good horror and psychological anime. Can you guys try and convince me why I should watch it? I hope not in OMGWTFBBQZORZ WHY HAVEN'T YOU WATCH IT YET!!!!!one terms, but in persuasive, good English ones.
solwyvern
2006-04-27, 09:16
I really am having second thoughts on watching this anime, but from what I've read in the first eight pages (before the spoilers arrived) was that this is a pretty good horror and psychological anime. Can you guys try and convince me why I should watch it? I hope not in OMGWTFBBQZORZ WHY HAVEN'T YOU WATCH IT YET!!!!!one terms, but in persuasive, good English ones.
I double that for emphasis. Please convince me.
Awesome anime, I think it's the best of this genre I have ever seen.
It's possible to find somewhere the game and the manga in english?
Even an amatorial translation would be fine. Thanks
And what's the answer folks?
Probably not.
I really am having second thoughts on watching this anime, but from what I've read in the first eight pages (before the spoilers arrived) was that this is a pretty good horror and psychological anime. Can you guys try and convince me why I should watch it? I hope not in OMGWTFBBQZORZ WHY HAVEN'T YOU WATCH IT YET!!!!!one terms, but in persuasive, good English ones.
I double that for emphasis. Please convince me.
I have yet to understand the reasoning where people have to be convinced by other people to watch an anime. Is this some sort of Western philosophy that I haven't grasped yet? If it sounds interesting, people will watch it. But in the end, it all comes down to the person him/herself to watch a show. So why bother?
physics223
2006-04-27, 11:08
I'm honestly just wanting some teasers. I'm sorry, I don't understand Western philosophy that much either.
Srin Tuar
2006-04-27, 11:18
Well, even if i dont understand how the plot will unfold, it is fun to watch.
Perhaps as they show more it will click for me.
It probably wont be my favorite series, unless it has a real surprising twist.
perhaps if i had played the game i could appreciate it more... but then I'd be spoiled already...
I particularly enjoyed Rena's kuchiguse. "Kana, kana" Does anyone know
a person in real life with kuchiguse like that ? 教えて下さい
I think If I ever got the chance to speak with Japanese people on a regular basis,
I would definitely want to cultivate my own kuchiguse. My favorite is still
lafiel's from "Sekai no Monshou". "Yurusu ga ii" is about the most arrogant way
to sincerely apologize to someone I can even imagine. Yoruichi from bleach is
another one.
I dont know what their miryoku is, but anyone who uses a non-standard kuchiguse seems
100% more attractive to me automatically. I hope its not just anime characters who
talk in interesting ways like that.
justsomeguy
2006-04-27, 12:37
I've just started watching this show, and I've read the thread, so just a few questions:
1) How many chapters are in the visual novel? Is it still being continued, since some of you refered to "the latest chapter?"
2) Do all of the chapters go through the same storyline from a different perspective?
3) In order, what are the titles of the chapters and the pov/main character of each?
As I understood both Rena and Mion were under some kind of hypnosis, sad thing is that Keiichi figured out that they didn’t act on their own after he killed them. But I don’t get few things, how Rena was strong enough to hold down Keiichi and other thing, what was a purpose for Mion’s gun? Is this some kind of ritual, to force people to kill their loved/liked ones, or is this just someone playing with human’s lives? Every time died man and one woman had gone missing, I bet this situation repeated earlier, woman started to drive man insane, injected something into him causing him go berserk and after that in terror what she had done letting him kill herself with green dudes waiting to dispose of her body. Who are those dudes? I’m sure girls weren’t aware of how their “other selves” acted. , so putting all blame on Rena and Mion isn't nice.
I would have been really happy if there wasn’t any supernatural influence, but I’m afraid I’m asking for too much.
With those four episodes I'm really getting a feeling to play this game, is there somewhere english translation?
justsomeguy
2006-04-27, 13:39
Endymion, use spoilers please.
I'll admit I immediately thought of the delusion hypothesis also. I don't see why this could not be a story of a guy losing his sanity, thinking his perfectly sane girl friends who are trying to help him are psychotic, and kills them. It certainly meets the "tragedy" condition mentioned a few pages back.
Then again, that might just be a bit too obvious. And if we cannot trust what we are seeing on screen in thrid person rather than the visual novel's first person, then exactly what can we be sure is "reality" in this show?
Rasuberi
2006-04-27, 15:01
Hmm, as a first time watcher of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, as in someone who did not read the sound novels, I am highly enjoying this series and making theories. Ah, and reading your post Sushi-Y, I think I see how tragic Onikakushi was. Think that is. I have no idea how many times I've already watched these four episodes... probably better that I don't. I don't think I am going to get sick of this series anytime soon.
Hmm, I really do want to read the novels. But I fear the kanji. About how many kanji should someone know to be able to read the novel pretty well? I'd like to have an idea of when I may be ready to buy them. <3
Higurashi is love.
And I need my weekly dose of blood. And creepiness. And Mion. And Rena. And psychoness. And I think Rika is the evil of everything. Though she shares my view... "A slow and painful death is best".
I particularly enjoyed Rena's kuchiguse. "Kana, kana" Does anyone know
a person in real life with kuchiguse like that ? 教えて下さい
No, and if you do, people will suspect you as a weirdo.
I've just started watching this show, and I've read the thread, so just a few questions:
1) How many chapters are in the visual novel? Is it still being continued, since some of you refered to "the latest chapter?"
2) Do all of the chapters go through the same storyline from a different perspective?
3) In order, what are the titles of the chapters and the pov/main character of each?
Your answers are written in the English Higurashi no Naku Koro ni wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) that I wrote.
1. I'm surprised that Rena has the strength to hold down Keiichi, but anyway I suspect the liquid which Mion injected into Keiichi could be a drug which causes hallucination. I think he probably ran pretty far for a long time before he stopped to call Oishi which by then the drug would have heavily affected his mind. That could be why he was seeing someone when he seems to be alone (though I can't rule out any camera trick at the moment). The way he talked also sounded like he was imagining someone strangling him or something was suffocating him in his throat, so he was clawing at his own throat to remove the hold or he was going to rip out that thing stuck in his throat (WTF? thought)
2. I think the doctor who treated Keiichi in ep 3 was with those men in green caps and overall. So he is the "kantoku"? Damn kantoku has a few meanings, I thought Rena and Mion were scaring Keiichi by refering to the one that got dismembered in the dam incident. You know that kantoku? Yeah he's going to come back from the dead (Damn it scared me too :eyespin:) Anyway, I wonder why was he there? Does he have anything to do with the deaths? Well doctors and drugs (thesis 1) are good match, so are nurses and drugs, but perhaps he is just there for the simple reason of treating Keiichi's injuries, wait time alibi? Hmm...
3. Like it wasn't obvious, I think Keiichi's house was raided by the green men after he ran through the back door, hence the note was torn into two with the middle part lost. I compared the note in Oishi's portfolio with the one full shot of it in ep 3 when Keiichi just finish writing it. Guess what? What Keiichi supposedly wrote into the note in this ep was already there the first time he finish writing it in ep 3. Studio Deen's mistake or a weird jump in time sequence? Anyway someone got to fill me in on what's written on the part which was lost as I can't read it, but I think it's a giant spoiler. *conflicts* :heh:
4. Oishi was too good. I mean how did he figured out where Keiichi was calling from. I didn't see him press any button for the super mainframe computer to start tracing the call, like hell one of those was available to a rural poilice station in the 80's. Anyway, maybe he heard something through the phone which he recognized could only be from that phone booth, but I didn't hear any sound effects which he could have picked up. And what's with the camera rocking on certain parts when he was on the phone with Keiichi.
1. The throat scratching thing will remain a mystery throughout the chapters, as well as the footsteps that Keiichi keeps hearing behind him.
Here's an important advice: pay attention to any similarities between the chapters, even though the stories across the chapters will be played out differently (think of them as alternate worlds), some things remain the same (that is, some events alway happen a certain way). They hold the key to the answer.
2. I'm not going to spoil you by saying yes or no, but I can say you're making sharp judgements.
3. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=538017&postcount=173 :heh:
The part that got ripped out is the passage mentioning the syringe.
4. There's only 1 phone booth in Hinamizawa. Oishi wrote "Hinamizawa telephone box" on a piece of paper and showed it to a fellow worker while talking to Keiichi, and the fellow worker wrote back "One phone box in Hinamizawa, patrol car has been sent, 5 minutes".
I would have been really happy if there wasn’t any supernatural influence, but I’m afraid I’m asking for too much.
You don't know about that yet. But if Onikakushi managed to convince you that Oyashirosama might actually exist, then it has done it's job well. ^^
Wait for the next chapter, Watanagashi, for a whole different development. Then you can decide whether or not a supernatural being is behind everything.
And then if your mind changes and say "ok, human beings are behind this after all", Tatarigoroshi will throw you off again. That's the fun of this series. ^^
Hmm, just watched the subbed version of episode 3.
*ep3 spoiler clipped*
Anyway, this is mostly wrong I'm sure, but it's still fun speculating.
Actually, you're doing pretty well. (Even if you're dead on, I can't say "you're dead on", so this is as much as I can tell you ^^; )
Keiichi slammed psycho Rena's hand in the door hard enough to make it bleed and probably broke bones, but the next day normal Rena's hand is uninjured and and appears just fine. Also, as people have said, a 90 lb girl is not going to be able to hold down a guy so he can be given an injection against his will. So it seems that these things were just hallucinations. Mion injecting him might have actually been his unconcious trying to tell him that the injection was what was causing all this, though that's a bit of a stretch.
Actually, if you read the ep4 comments in my post here, you'll see that I made a mention to it:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=541969&postcount=195
When Rena arrived at school the day after Keiichi slammed the door on her hands, she had bandages all over them, and they were clearly hurt badly (well, the anime only showed one hand that got caught in the door, but that's a minor detail).
It was also shown in the manga adaptation of Onikakushi as well:
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/8927/124021236812425123753974038560.th.jpg (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=124021236812425123753974038560.jpg)
Then again, that might just be a bit too obvious. And if we cannot trust what we are seeing on screen in thrid person rather than the visual novel's first person, then exactly what can we be sure is "reality" in this show?
Nothing, that's the point. The game was told in first-person, so pretend the anime is the same too. Don't take everything you see too literally. But at the same time, you don't have to doubt everything you see either. You should make judgements about a situation while paying attention to Keiichi's mental state at the time.
Hmm, as a first time watcher of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, as in someone who did not read the sound novels, I am highly enjoying this series and making theories. Ah, and reading your post Sushi-Y, I think I see how tragic Onikakushi was. Think that is. I have no idea how many times I've already watched these four episodes... probably better that I don't. I don't think I am going to get sick of this series anytime soon.
I only said that because I know people will probably forget about it soon. ^^; My comments right now aren't going to matter 5 ~ 6 months later, when the final episodes (Tsumihoroboshi) air. After finishing Tsumihoroboshi, people will look back at Onikakushi, and that's when they'll realize what this was all about themselves.
Hmm, I really do want to read the novels. But I fear the kanji. About how many kanji should someone know to be able to read the novel pretty well? I'd like to have an idea of when I may be ready to buy them. <3
All of it? ^^; Maybe you should just try playing it and see for yourself. Download the trial version of the game (the entire Onikakushi-hen) over at the official site:
http://07th-expansion.net/Soft/Taiken.htm
Your answers are written in the English Higurashi no Naku Koro ni wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) that I wrote.
I've gotta admit, nice job.
From watching episode 03.. i can start to understand what really is going on in this show. As i can tell - with the man in the van trying to run over Keiichi, you can tell that it'll be explained why in a later chapter.. i wonder how many chapters in total there shall be.
Right after episode three ending, i just had to watch episode four raw.. seem to understand what happened, but it shall be a lot more fun with subs.
I can say this now, i'm a lil' scared i'm in the house by myself this weekend. ;_;
physics223
2006-04-27, 17:14
@Manatsu
Thanks for the push ... :)
solwyvern
2006-04-27, 17:26
Is this some sort of Western philosophy that I haven't grasped yet? If it sounds interesting, people will watch it. But in the end, it all comes down to the person him/herself to watch a show. So why bother?
Me and physics are both Asians, if that's what you meant 'Western'. :heh:
I'm asking for positive opinons from those who have seen it, as I really do not have time to just go check every single anime that 'sounds' interesting. when it comes down to it, most anime is interesting.
I have watched some great anime, through the opinions of people who have seen at least some of it.
Rasuberi
2006-04-27, 18:29
I only said that because I know people will probably forget about it soon. ^^; My comments right now aren't going to matter 5 ~ 6 months later, when the final episodes (Tsumihoroboshi) air. After finishing Tsumihoroboshi, people will look back at Onikakushi, and that's when they'll realize what this was all about themselves.
I'm just going to wait patiently to see all of Wataganashi now then. Gah. I don't think I can wait patiently for any of the parts. Higurashi has become an unexpected obsession...
All of it? ^^; Maybe you should just try playing it and see for yourself. Download the trial version of the game (the entire Onikakushi-hen) over at the official site:
http://07th-expansion.net/Soft/Taiken.htm
Aha. Not all at once or anything. Nor do I have the time currently to even start. But I'd like to read them all one day. I shall try Onikakushi-hen and see if I can read... normally at all. If not I may have to wait a year of more kanji study. But if I can understand well at all, I'll start reading after next week(a week of hell) is over.
Thank you~! <3
Kaoru Chujo
2006-04-27, 20:27
I really am having second thoughts on watching this anime, but from what I've read in the first eight pages (before the spoilers arrived) was that this is a pretty good horror and psychological anime. Can you guys try and convince me why I should watch it? .... I had trouble following the first episode raw, but watching a Chinese sub of episode 2 convinced me to keep watching -- time permitting after my top six, lol (SHnY, Simoun, Nana, Saiunkoku, Westwitch and Kirarin, just so you know). Chinese subs up to ep4 are available at bt.greedland.net And I see that English subs are done up to episode 3.
justsomeguy
2006-04-27, 21:17
My hypotheses and questions so far:
1) Hypothesis: Keiichi is a paranoid schizophrenic who became convinced that Rena and Mion really were psychos out to get him. (Of course, that doesn't mean they weren't either psychos or trying to do him.) Then he clawed himself to death, thinking that he had whatever that Tomy guy had?
2) The guys in the green suits. Who the hell are they? Mental health handlers?
3) What happened to Satoshi? Did he die, or simply ran away? What was his relationship to Rena? Did she kill him? Or did she love him?
4) Regarding Oyashiro-sama. I'm reluctant to introduce supernatural elements, especially since their has been absolutely no evidence of such involvement yet. And why would a god want to eliminate Keiichi?
5) We haven't seen much of Satoko or Rika. How are they involved in this?
6) Mion's identical twin sister Shion and the yakuza. How do they figure into this? We haven't even met Shion yet... or have we?
Now that I've seen a couple of episodes, I have to say that you have the creepiest avatar ever, kj1980.
My hypotheses and questions so far:
1) Hypothesis: Keiichi is a paranoid schizophrenic who became convinced that Rena and Mion really were psychos out to get him. (Of course, that doesn't mean they weren't either psychos or trying to do him.) Then he clawed himself to death, thinking that he had whatever that Tomy guy had?
2) The guys in the green suits. Who the hell are they? Mental health handlers?
3) What happened to Satoshi? Did he die, or simply ran away? What was his relationship to Rena? Did she kill him? Or did she love him?
4) Regarding Oyashiro-sama. I'm reluctant to introduce supernatural elements, especially since their has been absolutely no evidence of such involvement yet. And why would a god want to eliminate Keiichi?
5) We haven't seen much of Satoko or Rika. How are they involved in this?
6) Mion's identical twin sister Shion and the yakuza. How do they figure into this? We haven't even met Shion yet... or have we?
1. Why did Keiichi become a paranoid schizophrenic then? How did he go from being socially friendly with his peers to becoming freaked out all the time?
2. Why were they there in the first place? Remember, this is just a rural village.
3. What do you think happened to Satoshi? Why do you think he disappeared?
4. This part will come into play in the next chapter. Why would a local god would want to get rid of Keiichi? The pointer to keep in mind: what kind of god is Oyashiro-sama?
5. Food for thought: remember when Rika and Satoko was inquiring about why Keiichi was holding the bat? Leave a deep impression in your memory when Satoko suddenly hides her face when she realizes the bat. As for Rika...well, a very big hint will be: "What happens to her after these events." Jab this into your memory. You'll learn this when we get to Tatarigoroshi.
6. Shion and the yakuza will come into play from the next chapter. Play close attention. No, I mean really. Pay close attention to every minute detail.
Now that I've seen a couple of episodes, I have to say that you have the creepiest avatar ever, kj1980.
Well, I could've used Satoko's crying picture, but that was too gut-wrenching even for me to use (you'll find that out what I mean by this once we get to the Tatarigoroshi-hen chapter).
Is Oyashiro-sama a god? I thought one of the characters said he was the oni(demon) they were talking about.
I've been thinking about how many shows Nakahara Mai is doing right now, and I think that might be part of how she's able to do this show. Do all the sweet, normal girls early, quiet ones later when feeling tired, then go to this studio at the end of the day when sleep deprivation has led to a legitimate thirst for blood.
Got ep 3. wow.
I watched back over things, and I think not enough credit is being given to the producers. They didn't make the entire show third person. If you watch carefully, just about every bizarre occurence, from demon eyes to threats and attempts on his life, are shown from through Keiichi's line of sight. The evil eyes are shown always looking at him, the strange statements others make are shown from his point of view. Even the truck driver is shown in the mirror as Keiichi would have seen him. It can be confusing, since they will jump back and forth, showing Keiichi's face and his reactions or replies, but all the stuff people are questioning IS shown as Keiichi sees it, regardless of the accuracy of his sight, making it easier, imho, to speculate about just what is real.
That said, I'm still not sure if whatever the girls are really saying and doing is the result of a serious psychosis or the inevitable outcome of their having lived in terror for years without knowing who, or what, they're afraid of. It makes me wonder: what would be worse for the mind, looking for a killer who could be anywhere while surrounded by apparent psychos, or trying to hide from a killer you know is near when no one looks like they'd hurt a fly.
That's a very great perspective! I didn't realize that!
To keep the guessing game rolling: What if there isn't a killer? Remember what Keiichi said at the phone booth to Oishi near the end of Ep. 4 (if you have gotten there yet).
Is Oyashiro-sama a god?
Oyashiro-sama is a local god that looks over the town of Hinamizawa. There is a legend to it, which I won't say until Takano Miyo tells the legend in the next chapter, Watanagashi. There, you will also find out the "true" meaning of the Watanagashi Festival.
And, a god can be a savior, but can also be a punisher as well. While Oyashiro-sama is revered by the villagers in Hinamizawa, it is also feared at the same time.
DingoEnderZOE2
2006-04-28, 02:29
As a last bit, the game has no translation yet, correct? Even the shareware demo version?
No there isn't a translation, and boy do I wish there was. As much as I would LOVE to be able to play the game to the fullest, There was so much text in the game that made me realize how much my current Japanese reading/translation skill level is not enough to be able to keep up with the amount of text in a game of this scale. :( More studying for me.....
One question: is it ok to assume that Keiichi at the beginning was perfectly sane?
SpaceDrake
2006-04-28, 02:36
No there isn't a translation, and boy do I wish there was. As much as I would LOVE to be able to play the game to the fullest, There was so much text in the game that made me realize how much my current Japanese reading/translation skill level is not enough to be able to keep up with the amount of text in a game of this scale. :( More studying for me.....
Damn. Here's to hoping the anime sparks interest. (My Japanese is nowhere near good enough to try and tackle something that heavy yet - I can't even read a lick of Kanji yet.)
Also.
I asked my previous question in part because I'm curious as to whether or not Rena and Mion have to die. I mean, they're fun and creepy, it's a shame to have their demise guaranteed so soon into the series... :(
But essentially, is it the exact same timeline with other stuff in it, or "alternate endings?"
Endymion
2006-04-28, 03:09
Well a typical plot given what we know would go something like:
An evil doctor discovered a rare plant that grows only in a valley near a remote village (I'm not going to even try to spell the village name). This plant has amazing medicinal properties (extended life, youth potion, cures cancer, something along those lines). Unfortunately, it also is a halucinogen and induces extreme paranoia, so the doctor begins trying make a drug from the plant with the benefits but not the drawbacks of the plant but has limited success.
He then learns that the government is planning on building a dam that will flood the valley and destroy the plant so he gives some concentrated drug to several people which induces them to attack the head of the dam construction and hack him up since they hated him to begin with and the drug just enhanced that.
With the town safe the doctor continues to refine his drug and every year tests some of it out on one of the villagers, but everytime it causes them to go insane, kill someone close to them, and then commit suicide. The doctor and his cronies remove the body of the test subject for study to see if they can figure out what went wrong. This is why there is one death and one disapearance each time. The reason it is done on the night of the festival is so that the superstitious villagers will blame anything that happens on their god. This is also the reason the doctor chooses outsiders or people the god might be construed to be mad at as his test subjects. His lastest test subject is Keiichi who he injected when supposedly treating his cold.
Of course that wouldn't explain Rena and Mion's weirdness or why Satoko and Rika's families seem to be the primary targets of many of the murders and disapearences.
Unless of course the doctor had been doing his research for a very long time and injected both Rena and Mion with a mild form of the drug while they were children back when Rena still liven in the village in order to observe it's long term effects on a growing child.
Then there's the fact that the Detective says Satoko's parents died, but did not mention their deaths being connected to the other killings. I have a feeling the how and why of Satoko's parent's deaths are rather important to the overall plot, as is the fact that Satoko and her brother apparently lived in seperate homes afterwards (though I may have misunderstood that).
Also, to kj1980 or anyone who's played the game, Mion mentioned the food being a puzzle (hence the letters on it) that she wanted Keiichi to solve. Is that puzzle and its solution important in any way or is it just a random thing?
As I said I don't think that's the actual plot since it's too straightforward and doesn't explain some key things, but speculation is fun :D
But now, just so I understand, we're basically going to be looking at the same events over and over for like six or seven chapters, right? If so that cools my enthusiasm a bit... doesn't seem like there's much more to add.
Nope. Each chapter is a different.
Think about it this way:
You're on your way to work.
You decide to turn left.
You get to work normally.
or
You're on your way to work
You decide to turn right.
You get hit by a dump truck and end up in the hospital.
or
For some reason the alarm clock didn't go off and you are already late for work to begin with.
Getting the jist of it? Each of these "chapters" is an alternate world where one small decision/fate can alter the course of the game.
In Onikakushi, a certain thing happens (you decide what was the decisive factor) that lead to that ending. In the next chapter, Watanagashi, Keiichi makes a decision (which you need to decide where/what the altering factor is) that changes everything. And in the third chapter Tatarigoroshi, a certain event occurs that drags everything down the shithole. However, each of these chapters provides hints and clues that will help you in solving some of the mysteries in the previous chapter(s); while mind-blowing you with even more mysteries. In the end, it all comes down to utilizing those hints and clues to find out the larger scope of things occurring at Hinamizawa.
One question: is it ok to assume that Keiichi at the beginning was perfectly sane?
Yes. So in your theory, Keiichi some how got delusional somewhere, right? Can you pinpoint where?
Well...[abridged]...treating his cold.
Of course that wouldn't explain Rena and Mion's weirdness or why Satoko and Rika's families seem to be the primary targets of many of the murders and disapearences.
Unless of course the doctor had been doing his research for a very long time and injected both Rena and Mion with a mild form of the drug while they were children back when Rena still liven in the village in order to observe it's long term effects on a growing child.
Then there's the fact that the Detective says Satoko's parents died, but did not mention their deaths being connected to the other killings. I have a feeling the how and why of Satoko's parent's deaths are rather important to the overall plot, as is the fact that Satoko and her brother apparently lived in seperate homes afterwards (though I may have misunderstood that).
Also, to kj1980 or anyone who's played the game, Mion mentioned the food being a puzzle (hence the letters on it) that she wanted Keiichi to solve. Is that puzzle and its solution important in any way or is it just a random thing?
As I said I don't think that's the actual plot since it's too straightforward and doesn't explain some key things, but speculation is fun :D
Interesting. Many Japanese players had similar theories when they first played the Onikakushi-hen chapter.
As for your spoiler:
Well, what do you think? Was Mion really trying to warn Keiichi? Or was it just an extension of their club activities? What kind of game would Rena and Mion play with Keiichi if it were a club activity? Why couldn't Keiichi find the sewing needle? Why weren't there any stains on the wall? Did Keiichi's mom really clean that up and threw the trash away? On the other hand, by looking at Mion's expression at school in Episode 4, did she really meant what she wanted to do in that way?
I really am having second thoughts on watching this anime, but from what I've read in the first eight pages (before the spoilers arrived) was that this is a pretty good horror and psychological anime. Can you guys try and convince me why I should watch it? I hope not in OMGWTFBBQZORZ WHY HAVEN'T YOU WATCH IT YET!!!!!one terms, but in persuasive, good English ones.
The only plausible reason why I think you are asking this question is because maybe you're on dialup like I once was and have to seriously budget what shows to download.
Anime is different from other media because I realized that sometimes looking at screenshots, reading blogs, watching a preview, or sometimes even viewing entire episodes don't totally give away how the show will eventually affect me personally. I could spout 1000 logical reasons to watch this show and if it doesn't click with you, then there's nothing I can do about it. That's why I love anime so much...so many styles and tastes, and every show has its strong lovers and haters.
That being said,
1.) It's based on the second doujin game to be ever converted to anime (after Tsukihime your favorite anime)
2.) It doesn't have just one Nyuu / Lucy or Kaede / Psycho-Kaede, it has sh*tloads of them. A whole harem of psychos. I know killer lolis don't float everyone's boat, but it sure does mine. And these higurashi-modes aren't triggered by a headbutt or by emotional stimulus...these are calculated and creepy and can occur at anytime. This anime will singlehandedly define higurashi-mode in the same way Tsukuyomi single-handedly defined nekomimi.
3.) The revelations per episode just make me first bat an eyebrow, then open my eyes wide, next thing I know I'm just gaping speechless at the screen thinking, "Damn. Damn. WTF. Damn. OMG. Shiet. Damn. Wow." Then comes the rewatching the episode, then maybe if I had calmed down enough some thoughtful analysis and posting on forums.
4.) Good atmosphere for a suspense / mystery anime. Not exactly horror as in horrifying, but the vibes fit perfectly. OP / ED are just topnotch.
But in the end, no one's opinions matters. Just decide for yourself, and if you happen to like a moderately popular show, then that just works in the show's favor.
I double that for emphasis. Please convince me.
How about removing the Fansubs and General anime and Suggestions threads altogether? What will you rely on to decide on watching something? We are not producers who need to advertise and 'sell' this show. We are just responsible consumers who happened upon something we liked. If there were JD Powers Initial Quality and Costumer Satisfaction surveys for anime, I'd put this show on top in no time.
another speculations:
Keiichi - Schizophrenic, after reading an article about the lynch from four year ago, seeing Rena with large axe, hearing about annual murders during festival, about Tomtake’s death, about people being “demoned” away and about Oyashiro, Keiichi’s mind was determined to look for other hints, he overheard Mion and Rena’s conversation and that all put him in some kind of trance. Maybe Keichi’s conversation with Rena, when she for the first time spoke like a demon was just his delusion, maybe he saw and heard what he wanted to hear to connect everything. I’m not into psychology, but I think there are people who are taking random hints and on its basis are building whole conspiracy theories to the point where their minds are creating or twisting occurrences which in reality were completely different. Later being hinted about girls’ connection with victims, about Satoshi and on top of that knowing about Rena who overheard his conversation. At last when he was told about a reason why Rena got suspended, probably that was a moment when his paranoid blossomed. At this moment he was programmed to see Rena as a kind of psycho/demon, when they visited him and gave him a snack. It might be that Rena and Mion left him already and he was talking with his own delusions. If there wasn’t anything supernatural, girls simply wouldn’t know what he was talking about with Oishi, the only persons who would know was inspector and Keiichi himself. The same goes for nail, he expected there would be something wrong with the food so he saw there is a nail. Later, he almost got accidentally hit by a truck (for Keiichi it looked like a driver wanted to hit him, but if someone really wanted to kill him, he would easily made it much more efficiently). Another conversation with Rena, food’s disappearance, later he almost crushed her hand (why Rena didn’t mentioned it next day, if I’m correct, was there something she blamed herself for?), what’s strange Rena in her “demon” state is repeatedly asking him for forgiveness. Another conversation about Satoshi, he see angered Mion wanting to kill Oishi, her way of speaking nicely goes with his imagination of her and at last “conversation” with Rena, he is running away, he meets with people in green (what hits me is why do they start chasing him, it looked like they were looking for him, I mean I find it strange, if they targeted him they should know where he lives/ he got a strong hit in head and yet we don’t see him being hurt when he woke up (was there a hit or maybe another delusions), Rena is next to him (would it be that Rena had her own keys to his house?) and tragedy, he was sure that Tomtake died because of injection and in his mind he was attacked and got a shot by Rena and Mion that would explain why Rena was able to hold him down (she just didn’t hold him) and he died like he imagined Tomtake died. I’m just freely speculating for fun and I don’t think what I wrote is correct.
another speculations:
Keiichi - Schizophrenic, after reading an article about the lynch from four year ago, seeing Rena with large axe, hearing about annual murders during festival, about Tomtake’s death, about people being “demoned” away and about Oyashiro, Keiichi’s mind was determined to look for other hints, he overheard Mion and Rena’s conversation and that all put him in some kind of trance. Maybe Keichi’s conversation with Rena, when she for the first time spoke like a demon was just his delusion, maybe he saw and heard what he wanted to hear to connect everything. I’m not into psychology, but I think there are people who are taking random hints and on its basis are building whole conspiracy theories to the point where their minds are creating or twisting occurrences which in reality were completely different. Later being hinted about girls’ connection with victims, about Satoshi and on top of that knowing about Rena who overheard his conversation. At last when he was told about a reason why Rena got suspended, probably that was a moment when his paranoid blossomed. At this moment he was programmed to see Rena as a kind of psycho/demon, when they visited him and gave him a snack. It might be that Rena and Mion left him already and he was talking with his own delusions. If there wasn’t anything supernatural, girls simply wouldn’t know what he was talking about with Oishi, the only persons who would know was inspector and Keiichi himself. The same goes for nail, he expected there would be something wrong with the food so he saw there is a nail. Later, he almost got accidentally hit by a truck (for Keiichi it looked like a driver wanted to hit him, but if someone really wanted to kill him, he would easily made it much more efficiently). Another conversation with Rena, food’s disappearance, later he almost crushed her hand (why Rena didn’t mentioned it next day, if I’m correct, was there something she blamed herself for?), what’s strange Rena in her “demon” state is repeatedly asking him for forgiveness. Another conversation about Satoshi, he see angered Mion wanting to kill Oishi, her way of speaking nicely goes with his imagination of her and at last “conversation” with Rena, he is running away, he meets with people in green (what hits me is why do they start chasing him, it looked like they were looking for him, I mean I find it strange, if they targeted him they should know where he lives/ he got a strong hit in head and yet we don’t see him being hurt when he woke up (was there a hit or maybe another delusions), Rena is next to him (would it be that Rena had her own keys to his house?) and tragedy, he was sure that Tomtake died because of injection and in his mind he was attacked and got a shot by Rena and Mion that would explain why Rena was able to hold him down (she just didn’t hold him) and he died like he imagined Tomtake died. I’m just freely speculating for fun and I don’t think what I wrote is correct.
1. So basically are you saying that it was all a coincidence that Keiichi became schizo?
physics223
2006-04-28, 10:11
The only plausible reason why I think you are asking this question is because maybe you're on dialup like I once was and have to seriously budget what shows to download.
Anime is different from other media because I realized that sometimes looking at screenshots, reading blogs, watching a preview, or sometimes even viewing entire episodes don't totally give away how the show will eventually affect me personally. I could spout 1000 logical reasons to watch this show and if it doesn't click with you, then there's nothing I can do about it. That's why I love anime so much...so many styles and tastes, and every show has its strong lovers and haters.
That being said,
1.) It's based on the second doujin game to be ever converted to anime (after Tsukihime your favorite anime)
2.) It doesn't have just one Nyuu / Lucy or Kaede / Psycho-Kaede, it has sh*tloads of them. A whole harem of psychos. I know killer lolis don't float everyone's boat, but it sure does mine. And these higurashi-modes aren't triggered by a headbutt or by emotional stimulus...these are calculated and creepy and can occur at anytime. This anime will singlehandedly define higurashi-mode in the same way Tsukuyomi single-handedly defined nekomimi.
3.) The revelations per episode just make me first bat an eyebrow, then open my eyes wide, next thing I know I'm just gaping speechless at the screen thinking, "Damn. Damn. WTF. Damn. OMG. Shiet. Damn. Wow." Then comes the rewatching the episode, then maybe if I had calmed down enough some thoughtful analysis and posting on forums.
4.) Good atmosphere for a suspense / mystery anime. Not exactly horror as in horrifying, but the vibes fit perfectly. OP / ED are just topnotch.
But in the end, no one's opinions matters. Just decide for yourself, and if you happen to like a moderately popular show, then that just works in the show's favor.
How about removing the Fansubs and General anime and Suggestions threads altogether? What will you rely on to decide on watching something? We are not producers who need to advertise and 'sell' this show. We are just responsible consumers who happened upon something we liked. If there were JD Powers Initial Quality and Costumer Satisfaction surveys for anime, I'd put this show on top in no time.
Pare, salamat talaga sa effort. Dinadownload ko na ang dalawang episodes galing sa Ayu.
Thank you very much.
Spoiler for good POV! Now for my questions:
1. So basically are you saying that it was all a coincidence that Keiichi became schizo?
Too many coincidences and rules of game club are somehow disturbing,why did he get a shot from a doctor and what did Fujou and Rika's behavior mean? I think I'll have to wait for subs because my Nihongo sucks and I'm sure I missed quite a lot hints
Julius Firefocht
2006-04-28, 17:06
Is Oyashiro-sama a god? I thought one of the characters said he was the oni(demon) they were talking about.
I've been thinking about how many shows Nakahara Mai is doing right now, and I think that might be part of how she's able to do this show. Do all the sweet, normal girls early, quiet ones later when feeling tired, then go to this studio at the end of the day when sleep deprivation has led to a legitimate thirst for blood.
You know, I think that may not be all that far off from the truth.
That scream in episode 2 was totally insane. Not at all like the roles she normally does.
This is probably a little off topic, but I just want to add that your impression of the "atmospheres" of each arc (game chapter) can change greatly once you learn more about the overall story.
Just like the game, Higurashi is probably one of the best example for animes that you should rewatch everytime you learn something new in the newest arc (chapter): these new revelations will help you notice things in the earlier arcs (chapters) that you wouldn't have noticed before, and behaviours + reactions from characters that were "confusing" or "made no sense" before will all begin to make sense to you, changing the overall atmosphere of the story significantly. (An example would be my comment before about Onikakushi being a "tragedy" rather than a "suspense horror")
I actually started differentiating the usage of "chapters" from "arc" at the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) site.
I use the term "question arc" for the first four Onikakushi, Watanagashi, Tatarigoroshi and Himatsubushi chapters, and the "answer arc" for the latter four Meakashi, Tsumihoroboshi, Minagoroshi, and Matsuribayashi chapters.
Harlequin101
2006-04-29, 23:46
One thing I'm curious about is what happened to the blond chick that was talking with Tomitake. During that scene with her, it seemed like she was someone mysterious or suspicious, due to the reaction Keiichi had.
However, it was only explained that "oh, she disappeared", and nothing became of it. That's kinda fishy and I hope it wasn't just a mistake on the storywriter's part, because it looked like she was an important character, but then they just get rid of her with a one-sentence explanation?
SpaceDrake
2006-04-30, 00:30
I'd like to see the full picture of that, Harlequein.
... FFS this show needs its own board so badly.
Hm... question for anyone who has any idea - how is Higurashi's music being distributed? I originally thought it was going to come on CDs with the DVDs (CDJapan still lists the first press of volume 1 as including a soundtrack CD like what happened with Shuffle! but now I've found this, which suggests Kawai's got an OST for the series coming out on the 21st July:
http://www.kenjikawai.com/topics_e.html#060721
Is this something different, and if it IS the OST what's coming with the DVDs? O_o
Wow... episode 4 was beyond intense. I've never seen a show that's developed itself quite like this one, that's for sure! I can't wait to see what happens next. And I'm really, really glad that I didn't watch ep 4 at night. :heh:
I wish I had :p I'm glad I was persuaded by vaguely noisy neighbours to watch it with headphones on my bed on very loud... it's made the episode that much more gripping.
I can't tell if I want this be licensed right now. If it was, my favourite subbers would drop it, and if it isn't I may give in to the temptation to buy my first R2 DVD :/
Hm... question for anyone who has any idea - how is Higurashi's music being distributed? I originally thought it was going to come on CDs with the DVDs (CDJapan still lists the first press of volume 1 as including a soundtrack CD like what happened with Shuffle! but now I've found this, which suggests Kawai's got an OST for the series coming out on the 21st July:
http://www.kenjikawai.com/topics_e.html#060721
Is this something different, and if it IS the OST what's coming with the DVDs? O_o
The DVD comes with a "mini soundtrack" CD which is a bit different from the official soundtrack that's going to be released in July 21st.
Ah, its good to hear we'll be getting a OST as well as a 'mini soundtrack'.
And just a question, what will it take for Higurashi to get its own section of the forum? ^^;
Did you read kj1980 posts?
The anime follows the game sequential order of scenarios.
Each scenario is based on whether choices Keiichi, the player, picked up and which did not picked up but explored in the subsequent scenarios.
For example, you come to a point where the trail divides into three paths, taking into account that you made choices at present time. And you do not know what's in store for you at the end of each path.
If you take the path on the left.
You end up getting ambushed and killed.
If you take the path on the right.
You found a shortcut.
If you take the path on the center.
It's a dead end.
You do not take any path at all and choose to return from where you came.
Same for Higurashi no Naku Koroni
In the Onikakushi scenario Keiichi made his mind to suspect about Rena and Mion being the murderers.
Scribble
2006-04-30, 16:30
Man, stuff like this reminds me why I love anime in the first place.
I'm a bit scared of coming up with theories, since I don't consider myself as intelligent or articulate as some of the members here. I think all this speculation makes the whole experience more enjoyable, though.
I just wanted to know....is it quite possible to figure out more than "20%" of the whole mystery by just watching the Onikakushi-hen portion? Are there still more clues in the first 4 episodes that haven't been picked up on yet?
Regarding the R2s, does anyone know (or can make an educated guess) about how many DVDs there will be in total?
Regarding the R2s, does anyone know (or can make an educated guess) about how many DVDs there will be in total?
9 seems to be the estimate, the first being released in August and the ninth in April 2007. That would allow for 8 DVDs at 3 episodes per disc, and then 2 on the final DVD which sounds reasonable by R2 standards.
After watching this ep, I realized something that seems just a little odd, and may lend to the theory some have posed that some stimulus caused Keiichi to lose it, and maybe not everything he sees is real. I just realized, after a little while in this chapter, Keiichi started to act really cold and suspicious, not just reserved and nervous, but actually accusatory. What I noticed was that Keiichi and the girls are never crazy at the same time. When he's ranting and accusing the girls of various atrocities, confronting them relentlessly, they look terrified, hurt, and confused. They seem really worried about him. Then, when their eyes slit up and they start acting purely satanic, he suddenly changes completely. He's frightened, desperate to avoid saying anything bad that could anger them and searching for any way to flee. Perhaps the girls have these two different personalities, but that wouldn't explain the full reversal of Keiichi's behavior near as well as the idea that their demon sides are hallucinations, and in this dream he acts like the target/victim he thinks he is.
Either way, the behavior swings, and the way they seemed to appear and grow after his arrival, definitely lends to the possibility of some sort of drug or environmental stimulus. Maybe there's a rare mold growing in the school walls?
Now I have to ask: if things "start over", that means that the events of eps. 1-4 are a series of events that didn't happen, right? Just one possibility in the continuum of events that could result from the same circumstances -- as if we're playing through the various story tracks of the game, looking for the one thread that will lead to a non-catastrophic outcome?
Is that it? Or are those different storylines somehow all true at once?
I can't explain very well without spoiling things, but for all intents and purposes, you should consider Onikakushi as a "scenario": a single possible ending in an unknown number of endings. For example, as most of you can probably tell, Onikakushi is obviously a "failed scenario" ("bad end", for all you visual novel players :heh:).
The challenges for the viewers is to:
#1 Find out what went wrong and when things went wrong. Ask questions like: "where did things go wrong?" and "what went wrong in THIS scenario but was ok in THAT scenario?" (for example, maybe something happened in Onikakushi, which didn't in Watanagashi, and resulted in a bad development) Since we're still quite early in the game (the 2nd "chapter" hasn't even begun yet), there's no way to compare, but keep it in your mind.
#2 Learn more about the main characters. In each scenario, we will find out a little more about our main characters and the setting, and you will find clues from one chapter that'll explain something from another. (For example, by looking at the Watanagashi-hen preview screenshots, some of you suggested that since Mion appears to be working as a waitress at Angel Mort, that's how she learned about the meeting between Oishi and Keiichi during Onikakushi)
Here's an important TIP from Rena at the end of the Watanagashi-hen in the game:"ALL the characters from ALL the scenarios are the SAME people. Just because a character's (say, Rena) behaviours were totally different in two different "chapters" DOES NOT mean that he/she is a different person in those two scenarios." If the character appears to be different (for example, evil in one chapter but normal in another), then you can assume that the cause for the difference is EXTERNAL.
Eventually, after seeing enough scenarios, you might learn enough about a character's personality/position that'll help you determine whether that character's certain action in another scenario was plausible or not (Example: "since Mion was like this in (chapter name), it would make sense that she was ______ in (different chapter name)").
#3 Make determinations based on what you believe to be solid facts. This has been mentioned over and over again before, but don't believe everything you see or hear. Only accept information that you consider to be trustworthy. And you will have to base your "trustworthy" scale on what I mentioned in #2 above.
For example, a lot of you has already mentioned the possibility that many of the "information" from Onikakushi-hen were simply Keiichi's own delusions. Is there anything else? What about the things that Rena and Mion said? What about Oishi? Are they trustworthy? You'll find out more about them in subsequent chapters that'll help you make that decision.
I think I already said too much, most of these advices would probably work better until after at least two different scenarios have been aired (Onikakushi + Watanagashi). :uhoh:
One thing that really struck me...
I don't know what the truth is about Rena. There's no way of knowing for sure, I think, at this point in the series. But I do know this:
That scene where Rena's hand is caught in the door, and she is whimpering pitifully "Gomen nasai, gomen nasai" as Keiichi presses against it, moved me deeply. Her voice was so pitiable and abject, so miserable, that the thought came to me that even if she were a psychotic murderess, I pitied her.
And as she stood in the rain afterwards, still apologizing, the scene was clearly meant to be unsettling and eerie and frightening -- but again, it moved me to pity for her.
This anime is rapidly growing on me.
All I can say is: just you wait until Tsumihoroboshi. :uhoh:
#1 Find out what went wrong and when things went wrong.
Exactly. It's the trigger point that matters when considering the change of events from one aspect to another.
#2 Learn more about the main characters. In each scenario, we will find out a little more about our main characters and the setting, and you will find clues from one chapter that'll explain something from another.
As Onikakushi was just an appetizer for the things to come, it is best not to make judgments about the characters, especially the club members at this point. Well, you can, but it would be best to get to know what kind of people they are before jumping to conclusions. Just because Rena seemed psychotic does not mean that she is a psychotic just based on this chapter.
As for additional TIPS:
Even if the chapters do not seem to make any connection, THEY IN FACT DO. This is very important. While Onikakushi, Watanagashi, and Tatarigoroshi have different endings and seemingly incoherent to each other, the baseline mystery that goes behind the scenes in Hinamizawa is all the same. That's the mystery you want to solve for.
If a TIP for Onikakushi would be "don't trust anything that you see or hear" and "only trust which you deem to be trust worthy," the TIP for the next chapter Watanagashi would definitely be: "doubt who you want to rely on." I think I gave out too much already. We shall see how this turns out for many of the theories on this thread.
All I can say is: just you wait until Tsumihoroboshi. :uhoh:
To tell you the truth, I really do not want to go through Tsumihoroboshi again. That was just utterly depressing I actually felt my heart being squeezed. Then again, I already have my drama CD for that chapter reserved so...wwww
Ok, here are my theories.
As it stands, the two girls right have given Keichi plenty of reason to go crazy. First, they understand that right now he is in a mental instibility, yet they press on in their wierd psychiatic ways, pushing him further and further into insanity. I don't think the blows he recieved were hard enough to put him into insanity though. As it stands now, there is no reason why the two girls couldn't have been the killers (especially Mion with her "I should have killed him when I had the chance" ordeal." So theory one says that the girls have duel personalities.
Next, what if Keeichi came from a mental facility at the beginning, and the guys from the white van are trying to get him back? The other wonder about that is that, why would they do it at night? But, I don't see that one as reasonable as the first.
Theory three. Everything started when the policeman told Keeichi about the incidents. Before then he got freaked out, but he had no reason to fear the two girls. The policeman in charge continues to tell him that the girls are at fault, the girls are after you. How does that help his mental instibility? Plus if they really thought his life was in danger, wouldn't they give him somekind of protection? I mean he is a kid after all. So that opens up the police as a possibility as well.
Right now, I really am leaning on Rena, since she seems to have duel personalities, one minute she is happy, and another she is psychiotic. She also doesn't seem to respect Keeichi wishes at all. None door thing would have happened if she would have pressed the situation. But one thing that keeps me from thinking it's Rena, is that she is always apologizing to him, or atleast, trying to get him to stay in town. Same goes to Mion.
The thing that makes me not think it's Keechi is the fact that, even when he isn't "crazy" all the characters seem to know whats going on with his life before him. Why are they stalking him?
So does a curse really exist? Does the note he left have anything in there that gives a clue? Who knows, right now it's all a mystery.
Blah, forget all that, everyone is delving into too much. Keeichi will be the "villain" despite everything they have lined up, it's clear he was insance and killed the two girls. Everything seems just to have been a product of his mind.
Saint Rygar
2006-05-01, 03:22
Hello guys!
Like many of you i usually just lurk around animesuki
But like most of you i have been watching Higurashi and take the hook on the mystery :p
My impressions so far (ep 4) of the story and some of my theories are like this (i'm guessing it's probably wrong but i wanted to share it :)
Sorry if i'm not perfectly clear in my message but english it's not my first language
=P
After watching the episodes and reading some tips:
1.- If keiichi really it's some kind of schizofrenic and it's the focus of the story in many ways, possibly the center of all the events
I'm not to fond of the theory of the conspiracy of the goverment and experimental drugs
I don't think right now the girls are 'evil' like they apper just like everyone said mostly are part of K1 delusions
Something that bothers me (probably it's wrong) it's the similar 'case' with satoshi, maybe keiichi itself IS satoshi( i don't trust in oshii, let me elaborate why)
the lost brother transfered away
Let's suppose this:
Many years ago when all the guys where around elementary school and assuming they know each other for a long time maybe rena and keiichi were playing some of those games (sorry if i don't know the name) of japanese children were they pretend to be a monster (i have watched that stuff in other animes =P)
Keiichi being Oyashiro sama a demon or deity from hinamizawa and by some mistake or joke rena made keiichi fall or something happened that caused the injury in keiichi's head (this is why she feels guilty to this day for the incident)
Since then Keiichi (Satoshi) began to change and became a schizo and a killer(in a way thinking he's oyashiro sama) being responsible for all the murders (except for tomitake san and being just a sad coincidence) to anyone who made something to his friends (probably killing his own parents and satoko watching) with some kind planned traps because a child it's not that strong to kill an adult just like that (someone mentioned satoko it's good at traps maybe learning from him :P) and they protected him for a while being the only witness of the murders
The last time of the murder probably keiichi (satoshi) was found and the take it to a mental institute and some kind of reabilitation program (being transfered away in the words of rena) who also take some time in a similar institution and that's why she said she came back (cured from the trauma of the events) but satoshi don't
Time later the doctors in charge of Satoshi 'deleted' that personality hoping that him became a normal person with a new family and life and he became the keiichi we know apparently cured
He came back to hinamizawa (I still don't know why =P) and everyone remembers him and know what happened but keep the "lie" of his new life and actually are trying to avoid all those events that can make him remember his past self but making him suspicious at the same time because of this
Enters oishii a cop who has a grudge against him (he knows he's the killer of someone dear to him and never found because of the 'demoned away' part) and wants him to remember and make him confess instead of being 'just crazy' and left being alone without any charges, that's why he is constantly pressing him
Probably the treatment keiichi received got screwed with him reliving something that in the first place made him a killer (something while the cicadas were 'crying')
And the rest it's like we see little by little even if he doesn't remember his past began to repeat the behevior of Satoshi and scare everyone (especially rena who is afraid he's going to be 'transfered away' again) and have more and more delusions
Probably the doctor at the clinic actually was the one in charge to keep an eye in him (checking if the treatment was successful) and try to medicate him now and then to keep him sane (and failed miserably =P)
When anyone accepted that keiichi was not right they chased him (the men in green) to take it back to the mental institute and the 'director' is the director of the hospital, i still can't think of a reason for leave him with rena and mion again(maybe he actually just thought he killed them but he didn't ) run away called oishii and killed himself (oyashiro sama being himself if he turned to his back)
Well if anyone actually read all of my babbling thanks! it was just for fun :D
Probably i'm wayyyyyyyyyy off and my theory it's full of holes but wanted to share it with you guys
I hope i can get some new ideas from the next episodes
That's it for now
Jellyfish Marine
2006-05-01, 05:22
The question is not "what caused Keiichi's insanity, the more likely question is what is the trigger point of his paranoia
kj1980-san, umm...would you mind checking my answer?
I've tried rounding it up to five guesses...
1. The event in EP2 where he read the newspaper and suddenly Rena approached him with her trademark buddy. Followed by his speculation that everyone is hiding something.
2. When Oishi revealed to him that he was actually surrounded by murderous ladies.
3. When Mion and Rena paid a visit to his house, saying they knew what K1 and Oishi talked and a frightening peek through the door crack "Don't you dare skipping the class tomorrow"
4. The Hit and Run event.
5. When he learnt about Satoshi and what happened to him (plus he was sitting on Satashi's previous seat)
*ADDED* I've just noticed something!!
I think K1 also started having his paranoia right after his parents left for Tokyo. My silly speculation is that, their departure might left K1 in a sate of 'lacking' something and stimulated his bipolar symdrome.
Please tell me if any one of these is close to the answer m=_=m /bow
As for Rena and Mion's intention...
Is it possible that they were actually tried to help K1?
My speculation on "Na".
I happen to study japanese with an elderly japanese lady (7x) who loves detective story ver--y much. Yesterday we watched this series together and she repeatingly said something like "The sound of Higurashi's cries in japanese is 'Kana Kana Kana'"
Kana Kana Kana?
But I don't think "Na" will stand for this meaning alone. There are probably some others important keywords to the story which begin and end or posses a distinct kanji read as "Na". Anyway, "Na" may really own no meaning as pointed out by kj1980-san.
Ps. Apparently, my respectful 7x years-old sensei has already got infected by Haruhiism syndrome as well ^^
Thewanderer
2006-05-01, 06:18
What about my theories, guys? Are they too stupid to even comment on?
BTW, they're here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=545892&postcount=266).
aliensporebomb
2006-05-01, 06:30
Bron's ideas are pretty well developed. But I have some questions/criticisms, even taking into account that TIP:
* If it was some sort of government test spiking the air/water, why was only Keiichi affected? Why limit the test to once a year during the festival, having one person die and another go missing? Why bother leaving evidence behind, when the government can just have the victims disappear entirely?
* Some sort of drug inducing psychosis would make more sense than a natural psychological illness. But why would the toxicology report find no substances? Do they only test for known chemicals, or some kind of conspiracy is suppressing the results?
* Those guys in green. Knowing who they are would be a huge clue.
Answers:
He wasn't the only one affected. The girls wildly shifting mental states is proof of that.
Known chemicals - this is something that may actually be a naturally occurring compound.
The medical establishment may be in on it therefore no reports in the autopsy.
The guys in green are behind the people behind the tests.
IMHO.
I also think that Keiichi's parents leaving is one part of it. We never saw
too much of them in the first place.
Another person thought Satoshi was actually a repressed personality or
side of Keiichi. Interesting thought.
There's now a new Higurashi no Naku Koroni forum (shortened to just Higurashi (http://forums.animesuki.com/forumdisplay.php?f=55)) available, so please make any further discussion concerning the episodes in the appropriate threads.
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New Forum? Where is it? (Suzumiya Haruhi, Utawarerumono) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31036)
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Scribble
2006-05-01, 07:34
Answers:
Another person thought Satoshi was actually a repressed personality or
side of Keiichi.
When Rena and Mion are talking in the classroom while Keichi is pretending to sleep, doesn't Rena just say "Toshi"? Didn't "Sa-" come from the card? Maybe Keichi created the "Satoshi" person based on what he thought he heard or what he wanted to hear. The problem with that theory is that the other characters seem to respond to the "Satoshi" name, but that could be imaginary too.
Also, like someone said it's a possibility that the police guy could be a bit dodgy too...that's what I initially thought. Some sort of MGS2 situation where everyone seems to be conspiring against the main character....
The theory of dual personality and mental instition is a good, but has a couple flaws. Firstly, Assuming Satoshi/keiichi did go insane and started killing people, he would have to had done it since nearly 9 years prior. Keiichi, no matter how you look it, is 16-17 at the most? That means he had to start killing people and ubducting them them since he was ten? There just isn't much possibility of him killing that many people, getting away with it, and figuring out some way to hide those that were "Deamened away." Coupled with the idea that he could kill is parents, it just in all likehoods impossible, especially knowing that all his main victims are older men.
Secondly, killings still happened while he was transfered away. That means, in some ways let's Keiichi free of what happened, because he was not there and therefore couldn't do it. So who killed that guy?
However, did the inspecter, the old man, basically tell us in the second episode that began? He said that the killings happened right after Keiichi left, correct. So did, Satoshi/Keiichi have something to do with that murder or not. I just think there is too much left out to think he was a young killer.
Though, on the Idea that he is Satoshi, I started thinking that as soon as he first heard his name. I was be kind of sad if he did turn out do be him because it would of been a rather easy discovery =/
When Rena and Mion are talking in the classroom while Keichi is pretending to sleep, doesn't Rena just say "Toshi"? Didn't "Sa-" come from the card? Maybe Keichi created the "Satoshi" person based on what he thought he heard or what he wanted to hear. The problem with that theory is that the other characters seem to respond to the "Satoshi" name, but that could be imaginary too.
Also, like someone said it's a possibility that the police guy could be a bit dodgy too...that's what I initially thought. Some sort of MGS2 situation where everyone seems to be conspiring against the main character....
I think we are relying far to much on "is this imaginery." If we keep thinking this way then why not speculate the murder really didn't happen. What if the Older Police dude did it and is telling the story as if Keiichi were some kind of maniac. I think we have to think more about what is imaginery and what isn't -- cause if everything that keiichi saw was imaginery... then... nothing basically happened.
Scribble
2006-05-01, 08:23
I think we are relying far to much on "is this imaginery." If we keep thinking this way then why not speculate the murder really didn't happen. What if the Older Police dude did it and is telling the story as if Keiichi were some kind of maniac. I think we have to think more about what is imaginery and what isn't -- cause if everything that keiichi saw was imaginery... then... nothing basically happened.
Yeah, I agree, I imagine that there's more to the mystery than "this is all down to Kei's dillusions".
Sushi-Y and kj have been emphasising the importance of the "trigger points", and the parts where Kei has multiple paths to lead...and which path he takes.
I'm thinking that the whole eavesdropping on Mion and Rena thing may be one of the turning points. The fact that he decided to ask Rena about it led to the first psycho moment, and USODA. Maybe if he didn't decide to pursue the Satoshi thing, things would have turned out differently. Hmm..
EDIT: More to add
If Kei didn't ask Rena about Satoshi, USODA wouldn't have happened, so when he had the conversation with the police officer and his dad tells him that Rena is there, he wouldn't have freaked out like he did, and think Rena is evil. If he didn't think Rena was evil, then he possibly would have gone to school with her the next day. Meaning that he wouldn't have gone to the "dodgy" doctor. And he wouldn't have run into the police guy and heard about the other girls' stories, and "all the murders are related to your friends in some way". If this didn't happen, Kei wouldn't have been paranoid towards his friends. I think the needle thing was imagined due to the paranoia Kei had towards his friends. This wouldn't have happened if Kei didn't have the conversation with the police officer.
Then, Kei wouldn't have "imagined" that the guy in the van was trying to hit him. He then wouldn't have picked up Satoshi's baseball bat....do you see where I'm going with this?
[/SPOILER]
Well the first trigger is quite obviously the article that leads him to take up the article. However, what triggered his huge change, I think, was the way Rena acted when he wanted to know about Keiichi, and why he was talking to the older man. That just what I think...
The one thing I just can't get over is the fact that no matter how we look at it, this anime can't end happily becuase every, not matter how we look at it, dies at the end. How sad...
Scribble
2006-05-01, 08:41
However, what triggered his huge change, I think, was the way Rena acted when he wanted to know about Keiichi, and why he was talking to the older man. That just what I think...
Yup, this is what I meant in my above post. If USODA was prevented (which it could have easily if Kei didn't ask Rena what happened, then the first chapter wouldn't have ended like it did). I can imagine the situation in the game, in the classroom after Kei listens to Rena and Mion's conversation:
A: Ask Rena about Satoshi
B: Avoid the matter
Jellyfish Marine
2006-05-01, 10:16
Scribble-san! Your theories sounds so possible OwO! I had never thought of that but now that you've mentioned it...it's like "Wow! So that's it? It might really happened that way!?"
The theory of dual personality and mental instition is a good, but has a couple flaws. Firstly, Assuming Satoshi/keiichi did go insane and started killing people, he would have to had done it since nearly 9 years prior. Keiichi, no matter how you look it, is 16-17 at the most? That means he had to start killing people and ubducting them them since he was ten? There just isn't much possibility of him killing that many people, getting away with it, and figuring out some way to hide those that were "Deamened away." Coupled with the idea that he could kill is parents, it just in all likehoods impossible, especially knowing that all his main victims are older men.
Secondly, killings still happened while he was transfered away. That means, in some ways let's Keiichi free of what happened, because he was not there and therefore couldn't do it. So who killed that guy?
However, did the inspecter, the old man, basically tell us in the second episode that began? He said that the killings happened right after Keiichi left, correct. So did, Satoshi/Keiichi have something to do with that murder or not. I just think there is too much left out to think he was a young killer.
Though, on the Idea that he is Satoshi, I started thinking that as soon as he first heard his name. I was be kind of sad if he did turn out do be him because it would of been a rather easy discovery =/
I think we are relying far to much on "is this imaginery." If we keep thinking this way then why not speculate the murder really didn't happen. What if the Older Police dude did it and is telling the story as if Keiichi were some kind of maniac. I think we have to think more about what is imaginery and what isn't -- cause if everything that keiichi saw was imaginery... then... nothing basically happened.
No the first murder happend in 1979, when the foreman(according to the newletter K1 reads) to the dam construction gets chopped up, so it would be 5 years prior. Also Oishi tells K1 that Satoshi is one year older than K1 in the beginning of ep3. Oishi says Satoshi disappeard in the fourth year(1982) and Rena says Satoshi was transfered out at nearly the same time as Rena arrived. Rena also says she only been in Hinamizawa for 1 year. Which makes it an 11 month gap between Satoshi's disappearance/transfer and K1's transfer to Hinamizawa. Between the festivals there was no murders(that we know about), so I guess that Satoshi/K1 could be the/one of killers. Assuming that everyone is telling the truth.
So then how is it possible for Satoshi to be Keiichi if he is one year older? Would that be another possible gap in the Satoshi is Keiichi theory? Even then, assuming that Keiichi is 16-17, five years past would mean he was only 11, could an eleven year old really kill and "deamon away" someone who has never been found? It just seems highly unlikely --- this is assuming that Keiichi/Satoshi is the mental subject murderer who was transferred away.
Also to Scribble
I don't think it wouldn't have made much of a difference whether he had talked to Rena or not, because the Old Man had inquired about the boy without his knowledge -- therefore, he would have been curious nontheless.
Scribble
2006-05-01, 12:40
I don't think it wouldn't have made much of a difference whether he had talked to Rena or not, because the Old Man had inquired about the boy without his knowledge -- therefore, he would have been curious nontheless.
But the thing is, Kei's perception of Rena seems to be the key to his downfall. If Kei didn't ask Rena, USODA wouldn't have happened and Kei wouldn't have been suspicious towards Rena.
Again, his first "psycho moment" was related to Rena (when his dad brings the tea). You could say that once that first psycho moment occured, then there was no going back for K1.
SpaceDrake
2006-05-01, 13:54
May I just say, HURRAH VICTORY. Higurashi fans now have their own forum to obsess in.
Carry on. ;)
Jellyfish Marine
2006-05-01, 15:29
I personally don't really agree with Satoshi=Keiichi. After all, looking at Satoshi's surname, we can assume that he is related to Satoko. So, if Keiichi=Satoshi, she should have shown more emotion.
Ah, about Tomitake's wife, I think she's pretty scary. You see, she was talking about murders and people went missing...with smile and distinct joy in her voice. If that's not because she's a mystery craze, I think she has a lot to do with whatever happened here in the part
SpaceDrake
2006-05-01, 15:43
Just to chime in really fast, and I'll post my "novella" later... I agree that the "Keiichi=Satoshi" thing doesn't work. Satoko would behave in a completely different manner around him if he was, and plus, how do you explain the parents, the fact that nobody else recognises him (including Oishi!), etc etc etc...
They're doing similar things, which means that Satoshi probably figured out the same things Kei has, or experienced the same things. That does not make them the same person.
I personally don't really agree with Satoshi=Keiichi. After all, looking at Satoshi's surname, we can assume that he is related to Satoko. So, if Keiichi=Satoshi, she should have shown more emotion.
Ah, about Tomitake's wife, I think she's pretty scary. You see, she was talking about murders and people went missing...with smile and distinct joy in her voice. If that's not because she's a mystery craze, I think she has a lot to do with whatever happened here in the part
Just to clarify, that wasn't Tomitake's wife. Takano Miyo is assummed to be Tomitake's girlfriend.
Harlequin101
2006-05-01, 17:22
Well, I rewatched Episode 3, and it seems Oiishi (the policeman) mentioned that lots of strange things happened around Satoko and Rika. It seems that Satoko's close relations are/were being killed off. Rika's family was also killed off and she's Satoko's best friend. However, Episodes 1 - 4 NEVER bring any suspicion on them except for that one scene with Satoko getting upset after she sees Keiichi with Satoshi's bat. It's strange that Mion and Rena are being placed in the spotlight, when past events point at the other two girls. This, coupled with the fact that Takano also seemed like an important character but wasn't focused on at all ... makes me think that Mion and Rena are just red herrings being thrown at the audience, this is because their creepiness seems to be tossed at us in large and obvious helpings.
This isn't to say that I don't appreciate Mion and Rena, because they're both wonderful characters.
Well, I rewatched Episode 3, and it seems Oiishi (the policeman) mentioned that lots of strange things happened around Satoko and Rika. It seems that Satoko's close relations are/were being killed off. Rika's family was also killed off and she's Satoko's best friend. However, Episodes 1 - 4 NEVER bring any suspicion on them except for that one scene with Satoko getting upset after she sees Keiichi with Satoshi's bat. It's strange that Mion and Rena are being placed in the spotlight, when past events point at the other two girls. This, coupled with the fact that Takano also seemed like an important character but wasn't focused on at all ... makes me think that Mion and Rena are just red herrings being thrown at the audience, this is because their creepiness seems to be tossed at us in large and obvious helpings.
This isn't to say that I don't appreciate Mion and Rena, because they're both wonderful characters.
I don't know, the opening seems to portray Satoko and Rika in a more or less non-threatening manner as well. Satoko is shown crying in front of the moon while Rika is wearing a... fox demon mask? I remember something about being used for hide and seek or something? Maybe there's some significance to that (possibly a game the club plays)? Either way, Rena and Mion are shown to be the more psychotic out of the four based solely on that. Also, who's the other girl lying naked with Mion there? A character we haven't seen yet?
Though it's really impossible to tell at this point. It's possible that Rena and Mion are truly the villians and that Rika and Satoko are the victims, seemingly. Or it could all possibly be a ploy in order to draw our attention away from who the real masterminds are.
Crimen Scythe
2006-05-01, 20:30
i dunno if this has been addressed b4...but does anyone think the needle in the food that Rena gave to Keiichi might've contained some "special" chemical....that mightve made him go psycho or atleast develop more paranoia...i also say this because in ep 4 b4 Keiichi kills Mion and Rena...they try to inject his arm with some liquid....i might be completely wrong about this....but it's just a recurring thought that's been bugging me...
Azn_GooWakJai
2006-05-01, 21:22
Ok so if K1 thinks there are is more than 2 murderers aside from Mion and Rena, there are still 2 more suspicious people left which is the 2 of the 4 gals in the school and I forgot the name sorry! Also, many of you have said K1 could've been Satoshi's "past" how do u explain K1's death in ep 4? He seriously slit his freakin throat!! Talk bout a turn of event. This is starting to bother me because the anime made tons of spotlight on both Rena and Mion and yet they died (oh also this not really hard to know they would die sooner or later cuz thats wat was shown in ep 1 before the intro). So now that we have 3 main character dead...wats left is the murderer? So how do yall think the story will progress for 22 more eps?
DingoEnderZOE2
2006-05-01, 21:50
Ok so if K1 thinks there are is more than 2 murderers aside from Mion and Rena, there are still 2 more suspicious people left which is the 2 of the 4 gals in the school and I forgot the name sorry! Also, many of you have said K1 could've been Satoshi's "past" how do u explain K1's death in ep 4? He seriously slit his freakin throat!! Talk bout a turn of event. This is starting to bother me because the anime made tons of spotlight on both Rena and Mion and yet they died (oh also this not really hard to know they would die sooner or later cuz thats wat was shown in ep 1 before the intro). So now that we have 3 main character dead...wats left is the murderer? So how do yall think the story will progress for 22 more eps?
Due to the shocking turn of events that happened so early in the anime, I found myself asking this very same question earlier. From what I understood from the response I got, The story will be told from various time frames also known as arcs(With all the characters alive, but beginning from a different path from the last arc. Example:What if Keichi didn't find out about the murders what would have happened then, what if Keichi didn't believe Mion and Rena were the killers.), so you can figure out what went wrong in each different arc while figuring out the clues to the puzzle that this anime is trying to get us to solve. I rather like this concept and I'm hoping this works out for the anime.
SvenTheSweeper
2006-05-01, 23:30
I can't explain very well without spoiling things, but for all intents and purposes, you should consider Onikakushi as a "scenario": a single possible ending in an unknown number of endings. For example, as most of you can probably tell, Onikakushi is obviously a "failed scenario" ("bad end", for all you visual novel players :heh:).
The challenges for the viewers is to:
#1 Find out what went wrong and when things went wrong. Ask questions like: "where did things go wrong?" and "what went wrong in THIS scenario but was ok in THAT scenario?" (for example, maybe something happened in Onikakushi, which didn't in Watanagashi, and resulted in a bad development) Since we're still quite early in the game (the 2nd "chapter" hasn't even begun yet), there's no way to compare, but keep it in your mind.
#2 Learn more about the main characters. In each scenario, we will find out a little more about our main characters and the setting, and you will find clues from one chapter that'll explain something from another. (For example, by looking at the Watanagashi-hen preview screenshots, some of you suggested that since Mion appears to be working as a waitress at Angel Mort, that's how she learned about the meeting between Oishi and Keiichi during Onikakushi)
Here's an important TIP from Rena at the end of the Watanagashi-hen in the game:"ALL the characters from ALL the scenarios are the SAME people. Just because a character's (say, Rena) behaviours were totally different in two different "chapters" DOES NOT mean that he/she is a different person in those two scenarios." If the character appears to be different (for example, evil in one chapter but normal in another), then you can assume that the cause for the difference is EXTERNAL.
Eventually, after seeing enough scenarios, you might learn enough about a character's personality/position that'll help you determine whether that character's certain action in another scenario was plausible or not (Example: "since Mion was like this in (chapter name), it would make sense that she was ______ in (different chapter name)").
#3 Make determinations based on what you believe to be solid facts. This has been mentioned over and over again before, but don't believe everything you see or hear. Only accept information that you consider to be trustworthy. And you will have to base your "trustworthy" scale on what I mentioned in #2 above.
For example, a lot of you has already mentioned the possibility that many of the "information" from Onikakushi-hen were simply Keiichi's own delusions. Is there anything else? What about the things that Rena and Mion said? What about Oishi? Are they trustworthy? You'll find out more about them in subsequent chapters that'll help you make that decision.
I think I already said too much, most of these advices would probably work better until after at least two different scenarios have been aired (Onikakushi + Watanagashi). :uhoh:
All I can say is: just you wait until Tsumihoroboshi. :uhoh:
I love this anime the same way I loved watching Twin Peaks back in the early 1990s. It has become an obsession to know what’s going on, and while eagerly waiting for more episodes.
Both shows involve a male protagonist who comes to a small town and gets involved with the local mystery and the residents. Both had a supernatural angle with Oyashshiro-sama (Higurashi) and Bob the demon (TP). You had to piece the clues together, and things aren’t what they seemed.
In regards to Higurashi, want to make some observations. They maybe clues or red herrings. Just as Sushi-Y said, and KJ would probably agree:
#1 Find out what went wrong and when things went wrong.
#2 Learn more about the main characters
#3 Make determinations based on what you believe to be solid facts. This has been mentioned over and over again before, but don't believe everything you see or hear.
I am trying not to be hasty in advancing any firm hypothesis.
At the risk of violating #3, here’s what I’ve noticed for Episodes 1-4:
A-There is a pattern of alternating mood-swings between the Keiichi and the girls ( e.g. Rena and Mion). I have not seen them engaging each other simultaneously in psychosis-mode . It’s as if there is a flip flop between aggressor and victim. However there’s one exception, the scene where In episode 4 Keiichi is looking out the window at Rena apologizing in the rain after trying to fool around about his lying. She is apologizing with the psychotic look in her eyes. It's as if the boundary between victim and antagonizer were broken, and blurred. Rena and Keiichi could be both at the same time. I am keeping an eye on this phenomenon of blurring the line between victim and antagonizer in upcoming episodes.
Evidence for psychiatric disorders, drugs, bad water, and medical conspiracy as being the prime driver of the psychosis-mode and mystery in general has been put forth in this thread. But they haven’t been totally conclusive, yet.
Trying to separate subjective reality of the characters from objective reality has been tough so far, after reading all of the posts.
B-Episode 4. Men in green hitting Keiichi, and he ends up in his room with Rena Mion. That leads to the injection scene with Mion and Rena. One moment Keiichi is the victim of the syringe assault, and then he is beating Mion and Rena. This leads me to wonder what happened in gaps between the events of the Men and Green->Keiichi’s room and the Keiichi being victim-> Keiichi being aggressors. There was also a flashing scene of the girls before Keiichi’s killing spree. Once again is this subjective reality or objective reality, or even both!?
C-The Director that Mion and Rena mentioned in Episode 4, I figure will be an important thing to watch.
D-There was something else taped to the back of the clock in Keiichi’s room, in addition to his death note. Because there was additional tape and the Oishi had mentioned there was another item other than what they found. Keiichi mentioned the syringe as evidence for drugs that killed Tomitake, could the other item be the syringe? Episode 4.
E-Episode 4. Mion mentions she should have killed the old man before he retired. Assuming that she referred to Oishi, means there is another connection to look out for, that of Mion and Oishi.
F-Method of killing the dam workers (dismemberment, presumably by a cutting instrument) is different than what Keiichi supposedly did to the girls (blunt force trauma with a bat). However, Tomitake and Keiichi killed themselves by cutting their throats with their own hands. Does the different murder M.O. suggest more than one than one motivation or suspect, be it person or curse, lurking in the story?
G-Episode 1. Game club rules. Rule#1- Aim only for first place. Club rule#2- Make every endeavor to win. Are these rules applicable to the way the large mystery is to be played out by the characters?
H-Mion is seen wearing a shoulder holster with what appears to be a gun in Episode 2 and 4. In the syringe scene she is wearing it, yet it is missing on her in the next after Keiichi bludgeons her to death. I assume this observation will be fleshed out later on.
I-Keiichi’s death note he left being the clock begins with not knowing who wants to kill him, but that it has something to do with Oyashiro-sama, in Episode 3.
Later in Episode 4 he also implicates Rena, Mion, and 4-5 other adults with a white van. He also blames Tomitake’s death on unknown drugs. However later on as he dies in the telephone booth, he blames Oyashiro-sama.
So he goes from supernatural (Oyashiro-sama) and unknown reasons (ep.3), to specific human involvement (ep.4), and back to Oyashiro-sama (ep.4).
J-Houjou Satoko was frightened by Keiichi swinging Satoshi’s bat. Episode 3. I was disappointed that her fears weren’t delved into, but it guess it will come later.
K- Episode 3-4. Keiichi’s father is having problem with his work, so both parents have to go to Tokyo. Is this important or is it a red Herring?
Using the characters’ subjective reality and personal point of view is problematic in determining what real solid facts are. They are evidenced by observations A, B, C, I.
So they may clue you in more about the point #1 and #2:
#1 Find out what went wrong and when things went wrong.
#2 Learn more about the main characters
More so than->
#3 Make determinations based on what you believe to be solid facts.
If there one thing that is for certain with Episodes 1-4, it is the constant fluidity of the characters and their circumstances.
Are there any other ideas or observations?
Also, you'll all be happy to know that we are putting up TIPS on the sticky (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) little by little as the episode progresses. Feel free to utilize whether these TIPS will help you on your quest for solving the mystery.
SpaceDrake
2006-05-02, 02:02
kj, is it alright if I re-post my "TIPS comments" in this thread? I get why you want to keep that thread clean, but there's one or two things I'd like to point out for others/discuss briefly.
kj, is it alright if I re-post my "TIPS comments" in this thread? I get why you want to keep that thread clean, but there's one or two things I'd like to point out for others/discuss briefly.
Yes, but I have hard-deleted it that post so it is unrecoverable. Next time, read the first posts carefully. When I write Any other posts will be deleted without discretion!!!, that is what I mean.
And before you write, no, there is was no real Hinamizawa Dam Project. All those TIPS are fictional that is intended for to make the game and story more interesting. It makes the story more "real" when you get to read newspaper and magazine articles, an excerpt of the lobbyist's message, police transmission logs, etc. right?
SpaceDrake
2006-05-02, 02:41
Yes, but I have hard-deleted it that post so it is unrecoverable. Next time, read the first posts carefully. When I write Any other posts will be deleted without discretion!!!, that is what I mean.
Durf, I actually didn't see the warning last time, thought it was written after you deleted the first post. :| Oh well, no big drama or anything, they were just little note-questions after all.
And you may be misunderstanding me a bit. I know Hinamizawa is fictional, but is there a history of the Japanese government doing big public works projects like that if it'll force people away from religious sites and whatnot? More a cultural/government question than anything else. As I said, I can't even imagine such a thing being proposed here in the States if it'd put a religious site in danger.
Anyway, to repeat a comment I made about the TIPS thread earlier:
Mion: "What's your monthly allowance then?"
Kei: "A thousand yen"
Satoko: "Oh. That's pretty middle-class"
Just so folks don't go "WTF? Middle-class allowance is US$10?", I'd like to quickly point out that, assuming the game is being true to the stated year it takes place in (Showa 58/1983AD), then ¥1000 is a pretty decent allowance for that time period. Remember that inflation, the 90's general economic slump, and the 1997 Asian Economic Crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Economic_Crisis) have reduced the purchasing power of the yen compared to what it was 23 years ago. Granted, by old exchange rates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yen#Value). Keiichi was getting only US$5 or so per month, but remember what $5 could get your 23 years ago compared to what it can do now. In short, Kei's allowance is pretty decent and isn't too out of whack. ;)
1) Designated investigations to be kept secret
Okinomiya Station 1982 No.X
Hinamizawa housewife murder incident (occured on June XX)
Okinomiya Station 1982 No.X
Hinamizawa missing student incident (occured on June XX)
That would explain why the teacher says that Satoshi was transfered away and why Oishi says that Satoshi disappeard. What is strange then is why Tomitake knows about the 1982 murder.
Also
When Tomitake is talking to K1 in ep2, he says he thinks the first murder was around the same day as the festival. Then later he says that a murder happens every year on the day of the festival, like hes suddely certain of it. Suspicius.
aliensporebomb
2006-05-02, 14:43
YES! Sven the Sweeper came up with some things that I was thinking
about earlier today and they would seem to be critical to understanding
this whole thing...
THE GAPS:
What happened between the men in green hitting Keiichi on the head
and he and Rena + Mion showing up?
What happened immediately after the injection scene with Rena + Mion?
Keiichi was no doubt upset but to go from angry to raging berserk?
Drugs? Hypnosis? Both?
"Let's finish this" Mion says "before the director gets here..."
I've been thinking more and more about this director she's talking
about and thinking about what kinds of "directors" there are out
there: There's television program directors, directors of organizations,
directors of shadowy underworld syndicates, and also one particular
dark God who I suppose you could call a director.
After they injected him, what did he do? Immediately pick up the bat
and go after them or did they taunt him some? "The director will know
what to do with you?"
And the situation with Keiichi and his one-two-three-four step solution
to this madness stinks to high heaven:
"Receive injection. Go Berserk/Kill. Write a nice note. Claw throat out."
Something doesn't quite add up - he's got the presence of mind to
write a nice note for the back of the clock but he's so berserk with
fear/rage/self loathing later that he claws his own throat out.
I have a theory that I'm loathe to think about but what if:
The whole drugging Keiichi/Death By Bats/Death by Claws
is an elaborate hallucination and Keiichi wakes up just fine in EP5?
Or not.
I'm also more than a little suspicious if Oishi. His involvement with
Mion has to have been questionable for her to muse "killing him
while I had the chance."
This show is a total mindblower.
Freak Of Nature
2006-05-02, 17:16
I love this anime the same way I loved watching Twin Peaks back in the early 1990s. It has become an obsession to know what’s going on, and while eagerly waiting for more episodes.
Ah, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only old TP fan who has noticed the similarities.
At the risk of violating #3, here’s what I’ve noticed for Episodes 1-4:
A-There is a pattern of alternating mood-swings between the Keiichi and the girls ( e.g. Rena and Mion). I have not seen them engaging each other simultaneously in psychosis-mode . It’s as if there is a flip flop between aggressor and victim. However there’s one exception, the scene where In episode 4 Keiichi is looking out the window at Rena apologizing in the rain after trying to fool around about his lying. She is apologizing with the psychotic look in her eyes. It's as if the boundary between victim and antagonizer were broken, and blurred. Rena and Keiichi could be both at the same time. I am keeping an eye on this phenomenon of blurring the line between victim and antagonizer in upcoming episodes.
I made a similar observation in an earlier post -- that the incidences of unstable behaviour of Keiichi and the girls did not overlap.
You may be right that the rain scene is an overlap that breaks this pattern, but for now, I disagree. I think that the rain scene is an incidence of Keiichi "normal" / Rena "insane". Under the circumstances, Keiichi's terror is not significantly "insane", whereas Rena standing in the rain repeating her mantra, would appear so.
B-Episode 4. Men in green hitting Keiichi, and he ends up in his room with Rena Mion. That leads to the injection scene with Mion and Rena. One moment Keiichi is the victim of the syringe assault, and then he is beating Mion and Rena. This leads me to wonder what happened in gaps between the events of the Men and Green->Keiichi’s room and the Keiichi being victim-> Keiichi being aggressors. There was also a flashing scene of the girls before Keiichi’s killing spree. Once again is this subjective reality or objective reality, or even both!?
If it is both, then the question is how the real/unreal elements interact. Assume, for instance, a case where the initial elements are real, but some sort of "break" occurs that leads into unreality.
Suppose Keiichi does encounter the men-in-green in the woods, runs from them, and loses consciousness (For what reason, we do not know. Was he hit? Did he fall and hit his head? Was he drugged, say with a tranquilizer dart?).
Later, he recovers consciousness in the room with Rena. Is this real, or fevered hallucination? Was his loss of consciousness associated with brain damage? Was the period of unconsciousness the crucial cusp between tottering sanity and murderous insanity? Or is the girls' attempt to inject him real? If it is real, is there an innocent explanation? One that Keiichi, in a state of paranoia, misinterprets?
In this view, the sequence with Keiichi encountering the men-in-green, and culminating in the murder of the girls, is a progression from a real to a hallucinatory state for Keiichi.
But suppose it's not like that? Suppose the real and unreal elements are jumbled up? Some events are real, some are totally hallucinatory -- and the period of unconsciousness is a red herring?
Or reverse it.... what if the meeting with Rena in the woods, Keiichi's flight from her, and his subsequent encounter with the men-in-green, are totally hallucinatory? They never happened, and Keiichi was in bed with a fever (or something). Waking from the fever, he finds the object of his fever nightmare, Rena, sitting next to him -- and in his already wavering mental state, this triggers a psychotic break. The physical events that follow are real and not hallucinatroy, but Keiichi's mental state is deranged.
The period of unconsciousness, I feel, is important -- but it can work both ways.
D-There was something else taped to the back of the clock in Keiichi’s room, in addition to his death note. Because there was additional tape and the Oishi had mentioned there was another item other than what they found. Keiichi mentioned the syringe as evidence for drugs that killed Tomitake, could the other item be the syringe? Episode 4.
If the syringe is real, then there seems little doubt that it was the missing object.
E-Episode 4. Mion mentions she should have killed the old man before he retired. Assuming that she referred to Oishi, means there is another connection to look out for, that of Mion and Oishi.
Everybody seems to be certain that the "old man" that Mion refers to is Oishi. I don't know, that smells seriously fishy to me. Could the "old man" be someone else? And is this remark really indicative of anything? After all, it could be just a figure of speech, in a heated moment.
F-Method of killing the dam workers (dismemberment, presumably by a cutting instrument) is different than what Keiichi supposedly did to the girls (blunt force trauma with a bat). However, Tomitake and Keiichi killed themselves by cutting their throats with their own hands. Does the different murder M.O. suggest more than one than one motivation or suspect, be it person or curse, lurking in the story?
Tearing your own throat out with your fingernails... really, it's not something you can just do. It would require either superhuman willpower and determination, or a state of altered consciousness. We are told that no drugs are present -- but is this really true, or can this be because it's a drug that doesn't show up in tests? Or perhaps a drug that does show up in tests, but is somehow being erased from the official reports?
If no drugs are present, then we are faced with the extremely unlikely proposition that not one, but two individuals were insane enough to commit suicide in this baroque fashion. That's not credible, at all. Does that imply a supernatural involvement, or skulduggery?
About the supernatural presence of Oyashiro-sama: I'd like to go on record with my prediction that there will turn out to be no supernatural element to this mystery. It's all human, albeit seriously twisted humans. Any occurrence of Oyashiro-sama will be explainable by human activity or delusion.
H-Mion is seen wearing a shoulder holster with what appears to be a gun in Episode 2 and 4. In the syringe scene she is wearing it, yet it is missing on her in the next after Keiichi bludgeons her to death. I assume this observation will be fleshed out later on.
Hmm... I've thought about that and I wonder whether the shoulder holster is some sort of subtle signal. That is, if Mion is wearing the holster, Keiichi is in a delusional state and imagining things, and if not, he is (comparatively) stable. Could that be it?
K- Episode 3-4. Keiichi’s father is having problem with his work, so both parents have to go to Tokyo. Is this important or is it a red Herring?
Maybe Keiichi's parents aren't "away" -- but dead. What if Keiichi has already murdered them? Or if we assume some shadowy conspiracy involving the men-in-green, perhaps they removed Keiichi's parents one way or the other, to ensure that Keiichi would be alone and unsupported during a crucial phase in their possibly-nefarious plan. If there is such a plan, it would almost certainly have to involve some kind of psychological experiment.
Scribble
2006-05-02, 19:09
I was thinking....doesn't the TIP with the conversation between the forensics doctor and Oishi kind of take away some of the suspicion from Oishi being one of the "bad guys?"
Azn_GooWakJai
2006-05-02, 19:18
Ever thought bout the connection between Mion and Oishi when she said she should've killed him and connecting THAT back to Satoshi? My assumption is that because of Satoshi's transfered which affected Mion and Rena maybe it had to do w/ wat Oishi did to K1? Questioning and asking facts bout past murderers? So because of Satoshi's disappearance, Mion and Rena wanted to keep this fact away from K1 in order to prevent him from being the next Satoshi. But this method back fired because of all the facts and info Oishi gave to K1 made him more cautious and suspicison towards Mion and Rena, with that in mind K1 had nightmares and this illusion where someone is trying to kill him when I think Mion and Rena was really just trying to help. They blame Oishi that he was the one that possibly caused Satoshi and now K1 to turn this way, becoming very cautious and creating a defensive monster. With Freak of Nature's theory, it is possible for someone to kill themselve under some strange illusion that they have which for example like curse, he could be having illusion that the curse is after him and then forcefully clawed his freakin throat which I find that hard to believe even in real life unless ur very mentally ill like WOH.
Im not making any final thoughts bout this mystery yet since its only up to ep 4, but Im just trying to disect out everything as narrow as detailed as possible to get sum clues.
Ever thought bout the connection between Mion and Oishi when she said she should've killed him and connecting THAT back to Satoshi? My assumption is that because of Satoshi's transfered which affected Mion and Rena maybe it had to do w/ wat Oishi did to K1? Questioning and asking facts bout past murderers? So because of Satoshi's disappearance, Mion and Rena wanted to keep this fact away from K1 in order to prevent him from being the next Satoshi. But this method back fired because of all the facts and info Oishi gave to K1 made him more cautious and suspicison towards Mion and Rena, with that in mind K1 had nightmares and this illusion where someone is trying to kill him when I think Mion and Rena was really just trying to help. They blame Oishi that he was the one that possibly caused Satoshi and now K1 to turn this way, becoming very cautious and creating a defensive monster. With Freak of Nature's theory, it is possible for someone to kill themselve under some strange illusion that they have which for example like curse, he could be having illusion that the curse is after him and then forcefully clawed his freakin throat which I find that hard to believe even in real life unless ur very mentally ill like WOH.
Im not making any final thoughts bout this mystery yet since its only up to ep 4, but Im just trying to disect out everything as narrow as detailed as possible to get sum clues.
So in your mind, you think Oishi is Oyashiro-sama's agent (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=549464&postcount=19)?
Just watched the first 4 eps of this anime today – I wish I had the other 22 and could take the rest of the week off work to watch them! Really is great anime – it deliberately confounds and confuses the watcher and incubates discussion like…well…like this thread.
We know there are cuts made – jumps in continuity. We know there’s a mystery with large gaps in our knowledge. We’re forced into identifying with the characters and putting ourselves in their shoes because our lack of knowledge is similar to what someone in the world created in the anime is experiencing.
In this first set of 4, we end up in a very similar place as Investigator Oishi, because – even though we see more then the Investigator and have less background knowledge - we’re as shut out as he is by the locals, we’re relying on Maebara Keiichi’s incomplete version/viewpoint of events and by the end, we’re left with the same choice of conclusions as he is. Oishi might be trying a dirty trick using Keiichi as his inroad into the community, but I don't think he's a 'bad' character.
I’ve got plenty of theories as to what happened, but first thing is:
Do we accept
normal explanations for events? For example, the needle in the food, we’re told one of the girls grandmothers helped make them and it’s an ordinary sewing needle – could have just fallen in by accident.
paranormal explanations? That some mysterious supernatural force is at work, instructing the girls to try and hurt Keiichi?
conspiracy theories? The government were active in the area, there were charges of corruption and enough local passion to ‘murder’ at least one dam worker, there’s men in green everywhere and it’s a police investigator that places much of the doubt in Keiichi’s mind because locals aren’t co-operating with him.
some mixture of the above? For example, a needle in food is a way to place(or lift, I’m not sure) a curse on someone(in old Irish customs afaik). Maybe someone is trying to curse/protect K, who’s fallen into the centre of an ongoing dispute between locals and the government in which people have already been hurt, but K’s paranoia and lack of knowledge drives him to probably incorrect conclusions.
I like the fact that most of what the girls say could actually be construed as fairly ordinary, perhaps even light hearted, if it weren’t for the tone Keiichi interprets. His paranoia is a serious hinderence to our understanding. (Plus, how could such cute characters die like that – doesn’t that breach the Geneva Convention on Kawaii Anime Characters or something???)
I'll take the 'newbie':rolleyes: bait though and go with:
There definitely seems to be a larger picture regarding the dam and the presence of men in green everywhere – I wouldn’t discount the idea of illegal dumping causing some type of contamination that might cause bouts of toxic mist at night that explains the ripping out throat thing. Maybe only the young and/or frail are affected by it. Maybe it mainly causes problems at night after the heat of a hot day subsides, like, oh, say a night when a certain festival is held… and it could be a highly localised phenomenon near a certain body of water or a dump. If we listen to Keiich’s description in the phonebox in Ep 4, it could be what he describes, after all, the killer isn’t human, and is constantly at his back, like he’s fleeing from it.
Also Tomitake was found on the outskirts of town, so the question is, is that near where the only public phone box is? Looking at Ep 4, it might just be shading due to the streetlamp, but it looks like the road changes to tarmac just past the phone box. Maybe paranoia caused Keiichi to murder the girls, but a good, ol' pollution scandal is at the heart of everything. Remember, Tomitake was at the dump photographing 'birds' and Keiichi was there too. Tomitake and his death hold a lot of clues, in my opinion.
Water is a central theme in the anime as well - we see water ditches everywhere, the festival revolves around the river, we see the watermill where they meet Mion every morning, we see some of Tomitake's (presumably last) pictures of waterbirds and of course there's the dam... I think that will be an important 'Oh yeah' when all is said and done...
Everything is obscured by Keiichi’s paranoia and the excellent and obvious cuts in continuity in the first four episodes (for example, why don’t we see the Kenta-kun’s removal from the trash-heap?).
All-in-all I’m going to stick myself in the ‘human-based conspiracy and related factors mixed with paranoia and tragic misunderstanding’-camp and wait for the storyline or someone else here to provide an insight to dispel or prove my conviction. :)
Rasuberi
2006-05-03, 19:57
I couldn't hold myself back so... I'll try posting a silly theory of mine. Pretty sure it isn't/wont be true, but given the few confusing clues we have that's probably inevitable.
And I am no good at predicting mysteries... Only when people are going to die (In any series but Higurashi, of course. I'm sure everyone will die at least once?)
Anyways. This idea came to me when I read one of the TIPS... the one about the school being part of a Forestry Preservation something building? Anyways this is pretty silly but...
While trying to get clues from the opening, I can not help but think that the flowers have something to do with the story. Higurashi is obviously not a series that exists just to be pretty... so the flowers and forest-looking area Rika was standing in must mean something. Plus the kaleidoscope sequences in between the different flower sequences seem to hold meaning. I think.
This would be:
--> Flowers followed by kaleidoscope images repeatedly may imply that these flowers may contain hallucinogen's? Since the kaleidoscope could be symbolizing Hypnosis/paranoia/loss of sanity/or generally anything "surreal"/"real but nor real"
--> The school is part of a Forestry Preservation Station... Of course I don't exactly know what that entails but, maybe this has a relation to the flowers in the opening and the forest Rika was standing in, or just one of those.
--> Which leads to: If they do possibly contain hallucinogen's or the like, perhaps those at the school end up breathing some of this in? Perhaps the villagers are used to it so people like Rena and Mion may have crazy moments (though I follow the belief that Keiichi was hallucinating), but they do not go to the extent of killing. Or perhaps the villagers are simply used to it and it does not effect them, but to an outsider like Keiichi...
--> He had too many suspicions surrounding him at the time he arrived, so he was not able to get used to it. Consequently he became increasingly paranoid to the point he lost his mind. This can follow both ideas that he hallucinated everything, some things, or nothing.
That's the end of my silly concept. Doubt it's true, but I didn't remember seeing something too similar... only some mention of the flowers and how they are possibly the "drug".
Also... I am following the idea that Keiichi was hallucinating many things, such as the needle, but some things may be true. It's pretty obvious that most of the characters are a little out there... but probably not to the extent that Keiichi saw them, in Onikakushi.
Hope I made sense. :heh:
Saint Rygar
2006-05-03, 22:43
I'm back guys (hate my work take most of my time) :p
Well i'm happy my post made some specution and i'm very interested in some other posts also :) especially from psicic which i think it's a very possible scenario in the story of higurashi
I'll take the 'newbie' bait though and go with:
There definitely seems to be a larger picture regarding the dam and the presence of men in green everywhere – I wouldn’t discount the idea of illegal dumping causing some type of contamination that might cause bouts of toxic mist at night that explains the ripping out throat thing. Maybe only the young and/or frail are affected by it. Maybe it mainly causes problems at night after the heat of a hot day subsides, like, oh, say a night when a certain festival is held… and it could be a highly localised phenomenon near a certain body of water or a dump. If we listen to Keiich’s description in the phonebox in Ep 4, it could be what he describes, after all, the killer isn’t human, and is constantly at his back, like he’s fleeing from it.
Also Tomitake was found on the outskirts of town, so the question is, is that near where the only public phone box is? Looking at Ep 4, it might just be shading due to the streetlamp, but it looks like the road changes to tarmac just past the phone box. Maybe paranoia caused Keiichi to murder the girls, but a good, ol' pollution scandal is at the heart of everything. Remember, Tomitake was at the dump photographing 'birds' and Keiichi was there too. Tomitake and his death hold a lot of clues, in my opinion.
Water is a central theme in the anime as well - we see water ditches everywhere, the festival revolves around the river, we see the watermill where they meet Mion every morning, we see some of Tomitake's (presumably last) pictures of waterbirds and of course there's the dam... I think that will be an important 'Oh yeah' when all is said and done...
Maybe you should read the TIPS sticky (if you haven't) in one of them mention a marsh that 'leads to hell' and where the original prime killer of the worker of the dam presumely died (they found his car near the place) maybe this is the center of the contaminated water or toxic sustance than the goverment wanted to hide with the construction of the dam
Also i always wondered why in the episode 2 when the gang it's talking with Tomitake san the anime take a good portion of time at the end of that scene showing the water at the feets of him
Another nice point could be that in other of the TIPS mention that the word of the communities of the zone were called burakus and that the name was changed (part of the culture of japan) because could be used to discriminate communities (meaning literally "full of filth") maybe this is a tip that the residents of hinamizawa and the outskirts could be "contaminated" maybe of crazyness maybe of some kind of toxical waste in the area who knows? :eyespin:
well i'm out of time to write more at the moment
i'll check later see you!
By the way, just for interest:
http://park17.wakwak.com/~mahosaro/higurashi_seiti.html
http://nisyasan.hp.infoseek.co.jp/heisa/hinamizawa/hinamizawa.htm
http://www.follower.ws/member/ID/2005-6b.htm#0611
http://www.geocities.jp/niyu1046/hina03-01.html
http://www.geocities.jp/niyu1046/hina02-01.html
http://www.geocities.jp/niyu1046/hina02-02.html
The model for Hinamizawa is actually a rural village in Gifu Prefecture, Shirakawa-mura. Many of the rural scenes can be visited by going here.
Uwa~ that's a bit creepy, isn't it? I might be scared to go there.. probably.
I've really grown to love this anime, but its sort of wierd since my name is Rena, haha.
The model for Hinamizawa is actually a rural village in Gifu Prefecture, Shirakawa-mura. Many of the rural scenes can be visited by going here.
It might not be as obvious for the anime watchers since the anime didn't really try to replicate the Hinamizawa (Shirakawa) scenaries from the "CG backgrounds" in the game.
But still, it's such a pretty place, isn't it? I could use a day or two of vacation time in a place like that...
By the way, for no reason:
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1881/suzu9bc.th.png (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=suzu9bc.png)
Maebara Suzu ^^
SpaceDrake
2006-05-04, 03:37
By the way, for no reason:
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1881/suzu9bc.th.png (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=suzu9bc.png)
Maebara Suzu ^^
... right, I'm totally lost now. :heh:
The model for Hinamizawa is actually a rural village in Gifu Prefecture, Shirakawa-mura. Many of the rural scenes can be visited by going here.
I have a question.
This is -> 白川郷 the name of the village?
Maybe i'll go there on my next Japan trip.
I have a question.
This is -> 白川郷 the name of the village?
Maybe i'll go there on my next Japan trip.
Yes. As an added trivia, Shirakawa-go is an UNESCO approved World Heritage Site.
Freak Of Nature
2006-05-04, 10:23
Yes. As an added trivia, Shirakawa-go is an UNESCO approved World Heritage Site.
Map location here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=%E7%99%BD%E5%B7%9D%E9%83%B7&ll=36.253133,136.889648&spn=4.313865,12.062988&om=1), more information here (http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5950.html).
And pictures, too. 俺も白川郷へ行きたい…
Rasuberi
2006-05-04, 12:05
Map location here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=%E7%99%BD%E5%B7%9D%E9%83%B7&ll=36.253133,136.889648&spn=4.313865,12.062988&om=1), more information here (http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5950.html).
And pictures, too. 俺も白川郷へ行きたい…
僕も白川郷へ行きたいです～！行きたいけど。。。きっと怖がれると思います。「レナ？レナ。。。後ろにいる かな。。。こわい～」 *runs around* It would probably be nice and peaceful, but I'd deffinately get too scared. There are enough bushes that move when I go near them in the middle of the night here in Florida. Eeee.
I'd deffinately go paranoid and start hallucinating that I was surrounded by murderous girls. Ahahaha...
SvenTheSweeper
2006-05-04, 12:41
I’ve looked at other anime forums for what other viewers have been posting on Higurashi. So far AnimeSuki is the best I’ve seen. Everyone should be commended for the time and effort put in creating a quality thread. I would even dare to say that AnimeSuki’s forums overall have been better than others that I have seen.
On to the topic at hand.
YES! Sven the Sweeper came up with some things that I was thinking
about earlier today and they would seem to be critical to understanding
this whole thing...
THE GAPS:
This show is a total mindblower.
I agree; the show is total mind blower. All those darn gaps in how things progress.
[QUOTE=aliensporebomb]
The whole drugging Keiichi/Death By Bats/Death by Claws
is an elaborate hallucination and Keiichi wakes up just fine in EP5?
Just like killing Kenny in South Park. “OMG they killed______(chose one of the following: Keiichi, Rena, Mion) You BASTARD!
Ah, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only old TP fan who has noticed the similarities.
Cool another TP fan.
Looks like Keiichi succumbed to something evil (but not necessarily supernatural) like Agent Cooper.
I made a similar observation in an earlier post -- that the incidences of unstable behavior of Keiichi and the girls did not overlap.
You may be right that the rain scene is an overlap that breaks this pattern, but for now, I disagree. I think that the rain scene is an incidence of Keiichi "normal" / Rena "insane". Under the circumstances, Keiichi's terror is not significantly "insane", whereas Rena standing in the rain repeating her mantra, would appear so.
Upon further thought, I realized that I may have unnecessarily conflated the phenomenon of psychological/psychiatric state of a person (i.e.-is it psychosis, anger, fear, calm, and the like) with the issue of an individual’s behavior towards another person. In this case, who is being hurt by whom?
So my conflating of the “alternating mood-swings” with “aggressor and victim” in the paragraph below:
“There is a pattern of alternating mood-swings between the Keiichi and the girls ( e.g. Rena and Mion). I have not seen them engaging each other simultaneously in psychosis-mode . It’s as if there is a flip flop between aggressor and victim. However there’s one exception, the scene where”
Needs to be corrected, by separating it into two separate but closely related topics:
1-Psychological/psychiatric state of the person.
2-Who is inflicting the pain and suffering? (I.e. who is the tormentor and who is the victim?”)
Because a tormentor can be have mental illness or not, be angry or calm, and so forth; just a victim can have mental illness or not, be angry or calm, and so forth.
Let’s start with- Psychological/psychiatric state of Keiichi.
Upon reflection and rewatching the door slamming incident, both our ideas could be valid;
A-Yours (Freak of Nature)= that he is sane. Keiichi is in a normal state of mind with rational fear and anger.
B-Mine (SvenTheSweeper)=that he could be a mental illness. Keiichi has psychiatric or psychologically based irrational fear and anger.
Next let’s look at -Who is inflicting the pain and suffering? (I.e. who is the tormentor and who is the victim?”)
In this night time door scene at Keiichi’s home, both Keiichi and Rena were tormentor and victim.
For example-
Keiichi as:
Tormentor->slamming the door on Rena,
Victim->fear and discomfort of Rena and her accusation of him lying.
Rena as:
Tormentor->verbally bullying and accusing Keiichi of lying,
Victim->hand injured by door slamming and crying out to Keiichi for mercy.
I propose that both were victims at the door incident and in the scene of Keiichi looking out in at an apparently remorseful and apologetic Rena.
Unfortunately, I am getting the feel examining this incident has not yielded definitive conclusions about either of their mental-emotional state. The one thing tha does stick out is that it is an anomly.
The thing that bothers me right now is that I maybe getting an incomplete or inaccurate answers from this incident. In other words, I might be wasting my time looking at it.
If it is both, then the question is how the real/unreal elements interact. Assume, for instance, a case where the initial elements are real, but some sort of "break" occurs that leads into unreality.
[spoiler]Suppose Keiichi does encounter the men-in-green in the woods, runs from them, and loses consciousness (For what reason, we do not know. Was he hit? Did he fall and hit his head? Was he drugged, say with a tranquilizer dart?).
Later, he recovers consciousness in the room with Rena. Is this real, or fevered hallucination? Was his loss of consciousness associated with brain damage? Was the period of unconsciousness the crucial cusp between tottering sanity and murderous insanity? Or is the girls' attempt to inject him real? If it is real, is there an innocent explanation? One that Keiichi, in a state of paranoia, misinterprets?
In this view, the sequence with Keiichi encountering the men-in-green, and culminating in the murder of the girls, is a progression from a real to a hallucinatory state for Keiichi.
But suppose it's not like that? Suppose the real and unreal elements are jumbled up? Some events are real, some are totally hallucinatory -- and the period of unconsciousness is a red herring?
Or reverse it.... what if the meeting with Rena in the woods, Keiichi's flight from her, and his subsequent encounter with the men-in-green, are totally hallucinatory? They never happened, and Keiichi was in bed with a fever (or something). Waking from the fever, he finds the object of his fever nightmare, Rena, sitting next to him -- and in his already wavering mental state, this triggers a psychotic break. The physical events that follow are real and not hallucinatroy, but Keiichi's mental state is deranged.
The period of unconsciousness, I feel, is important -- but it can work both ways.
Tearing your own throat out with your fingernails... really, it's not something you can just do. It would require either superhuman willpower and determination, or a state of altered consciousness. We are told that no drugs are present -- but is this really true, or can this be because it's a drug that doesn't show up in tests? Or perhaps a drug that does show up in tests, but is somehow being erased from the official reports?
If no drugs are present, then we are faced with the extremely unlikely proposition that not one, but two individuals were insane enough to commit suicide in this baroque fashion. That's not credible, at all. Does that imply a supernatural involvement, or skulduggery?
About the supernatural presence of Oyashiro-sama: I'd like to go on record with my prediction that there will turn out to be no supernatural element to this mystery. It's all human, albeit seriously twisted humans. Any occurrence of Oyashiro-sama will be explainable by human activity or delusion.
Hmm... I've thought about that and I wonder whether the shoulder holster is some sort of subtle signal. That is, if Mion is wearing the holster, Keiichi is in a delusional state and imagining things, and if not, he is (comparatively) stable. Could that be it?
Maybe Keiichi's parents aren't "away" -- but dead. What if Keiichi has already murdered them? Or if we assume some shadowy conspiracy involving the men-in-green, perhaps they removed Keiichi's parents one way or the other, to ensure that Keiichi would be alone and unsupported during a crucial phase in their possibly-nefarious plan. If there is such a plan, it would almost certainly have to involve some kind of psychological experiment.
Sometimes I feel we need Cliff’s Note to sort out this messy situation.
Tearing at your throat to quickly kill yourself from loss of blood seem very difficult to me. The human body has self-preservation response of a gag-reflex to stop injury to throat. I would think that a person trying to cut their throat with their hands would faint, or die of suffocation due to larynx obstruction first, before bleeding to death. If you did sever blood vessels, it would probably take hours to died from it. If anyone thinks that you can easily break open your carotid artery with you own hands, think again. It is pretty tough piece of tissue. I got to see a carotid artery on cadaver one time. The instructor was explaining how difficult it is to puncture it with an acupuncture needle.
I lean towards your prediction about humans and Oyashiro-sama’s role in the mystery of it all.
Ever thought bout the connection between Mion and Oishi when she said she should've killed him and connecting THAT back to Satoshi? My assumption is that because of Satoshi's transfered which affected Mion and Rena maybe it had to do w/ wat Oishi did to K1? Questioning and asking facts bout past murderers? So because of Satoshi's disappearance, Mion and Rena wanted to keep this fact away from K1 in order to prevent him from being the next Satoshi. But this method back fired because of all the facts and info Oishi gave to K1 made him more cautious and suspicison towards Mion and Rena, with that in mind K1 had nightmares and this illusion where someone is trying to kill him when I think Mion and Rena was really just trying to help. They blame Oishi that he was the one that possibly caused Satoshi and now K1 to turn this way, becoming very cautious and creating a defensive monster. With Freak of Nature's theory, it is possible for someone to kill themselve under some strange illusion that they have which for example like curse, he could be having illusion that the curse is after him and then forcefully clawed his freakin throat which I find that hard to believe even in real life unless ur very mentally ill like WOH.
A quick summary of a hypothesis I have, I hope to expand on the following points in a later post.
Relationships-
-Keiichi behavior pattern is highly individualistic self-preservation. He trusts few people and is alienated from the girls.
-The girl’s behavior is towards group preservation (i.e. let’s play and be friends, don’t worry about that incident) and encouraging Keiichi toward group norms (e.g. everyone’s afraid of you, stop swinging that bat) and to shun outsiders (e.g. Don’t listen to the old man).
. We’re forced into identifying with the characters and putting ourselves in their shoes because our lack of knowledge is similar to what someone in the world created in the anime is experiencing.
That is a very Alfred Hitchcock device. Get us to empathize with the protagonist, even if it they are the villains. Psycho is considered to be important in that regard, because it was one of the first suspense-crime films that was done from the perspective of the criminal, Norman Bates. It got you to feel the highs and lows of the murderous bad guy, who also happens to be the protagonist.
.
In this first set of 4, we end up in a very similar place as Investigator Oishi, because – even though we see more then the Investigator and have less background knowledge - we’re as shut out as he is by the locals, we’re relying on Maebara Keiichi’s incomplete version/viewpoint of events and by the end, we’re left with the same choice of conclusions as he is. Oishi might be trying a dirty trick using Keiichi as his inroad into the community, but I don't think he's a 'bad' character.
I have similar thoughts about Oishi and the limited viewpoints of rely rely on Keiichi.
On a somewhat related aside.
I am a seiyuu fan and therefore enjoy knowing what shows voice actors have done in the past, are currently doing, and will be doing in the future.
If you are like me, then you know that Higurashi have some alumni from Ai Yori Aoishi. Namely the Keiichi and Mion are voice by the same seiyuus as the AYO characters Kaoru Hanabishi and Tina Foster, respectively,
As you know AYO is very different from Higurahsi, it’s very sweet, cheerful, tear-jerking, sappy, and sentimental, yet still enjoyable.
One time, I analyzed Keiichi’s Ep.4 bat scene for clues, and a thought occurred to me, “It’s like Tina Foster is being killed by Kaoru with a bat (In some weird parallel universe).”
The thought of juxtaposing a homicidal Kaoru killing Tina Foster, given AYO’s sweet sentimental tone, struck me as amusing.
"Yes Aoi-chan, Kaoru-sama has been a baaadd boy-> No more free-loading Tina Foster."
I know, weird thoughts, but I can’t help being a seiyuu fan.
One time, I analyzed Keiichi’s Ep.4 bat scene for clues, and a thought occurred to me, “It’s like Tina Foster is being killed by Kaoru with a bat (In some weird parallel universe).”
The thought of juxtaposing a homicidal Kaoru killing Tina Foster, given AYO’s sweet sentimental tone, struck me as amusing.
"Yes Aoi-chan, Kaoru-sama has been a baaadd boy-> No more free-loading Tina Foster."
I know, weird thoughts, but I can’t help being a seiyuu fan.
To me, when I first listened to the dramaCD, it sounded like Kira Yamato (GundamSEED) getting freaked out by a psychotic Miyafuji Miina (Onegai Twins) and Chidori Kaname (Full Metal Panic!).
Chibi_Faerie
2006-05-04, 14:33
I've been haunting these boards as a guest since the series started, I planned to join in sooner but my account went kerpoof and I was too lazy to re-register. But I swear this series just keeps sucking me in further and further and further... It's so amazing, I'm seriously jealous of you people who played the game too. If I were smart enough to learn Japanese I would soooo play. I wish I could >.< It's just awesome! Yet it freaks me out, I'm surprised I'm still watching and eagerly awaiting the 5th episode to be subbed. The first time I watched the first two episodes, just before bed around Midnight... I was like... Yeah... This is awesome... I'm so not going to sleep... And ya know what? I didn't o.O, I finally came down with the flu that was going around, and lucky me ran fever and got delusional, needless to say the anime came to haunt me that night and a few more night... Thank God my Mom was too far in dream land to wake up lol. Getting a sore throat after hearing about the photographer guy after the festival lol... Sooo freaks you out... But that goes to show how much this show sucks you in maybe, they are doing such a superb job!! And so are all the other members of the board here that are trying to solve it!! I can't wait to come up with something to add, but so far I agree with a lot of the speculations there have been so far. I love murder mysteries, or regular mysteries, any mysteries! I grew up on them, some Sherlock Holmes, Trixie Beldon, Nancy Drew, etc etc. Seeing animes like this just make me go SQUEEEEEEEEEEEE~!!! I love the characters, the art design, the mystery, the suspense, the on the edge of your seatness at parts. The 'What the...' moments... I have those moments watching this, it's just what I love to see in anime. I'm more eager to see this than I am to see Detective Academy Q or more Spiral manga scanlations. I was ecstatic to see this anime get it's own forum, and seeing all the work put into it with the Tips and the poems is just awesome. All of you that have worked on it are awesome, as are you people with the awesome detective work so far. I hope to contribute some stuff in the future, but for now I'm following advice I read earlier and not judging anything by the first chapter, eagerly awaiting the second to see if any of my suspicions will be validated... Probably not as I am really not too bright >.<... I so wish there were a translated version of the game some where!! One can dream, maybe someday... But still enjoying this, I love it!! *Been awhile since an anime sucked her in and excited her this much.*
Azn_GooWakJai
2006-05-04, 17:56
By the way, just for interest:
http://park17.wakwak.com/~mahosaro/higurashi_seiti.html
http://nisyasan.hp.infoseek.co.jp/heisa/hinamizawa/hinamizawa.htm
http://www.follower.ws/member/ID/2005-6b.htm#0611
http://www.geocities.jp/niyu1046/hina03-01.html
http://www.geocities.jp/niyu1046/hina02-01.html
http://www.geocities.jp/niyu1046/hina02-02.html
The model for Hinamizawa is actually a rural village in Gifu Prefecture, Shirakawa-mura. Many of the rural scenes can be visited by going here.
Woh woh woh wait a min, I know im a newbie that started watchin this anime, but from ur links, is this anime based on a true story or sumthin? Or did the author actually piked a place like this that can carry out his story? Knowing the fact that this place exist in such rual area.......im gettin goosebumps.. =S
Max Demian
2006-05-04, 18:09
After reading through the TIP section I've noticed several interesting " clues " I wanted to bring up. I don't know if they mean anything but they seem rather suspicous.
First is the article about how after the six dam workers killed the man the leader proposed to chop up his body. The article mentioned how this created a bond between the killers. However the first thought I got was it sounded like some sort of grotesque game of hide and seek with body parts, drawing parallels to the games the club plays. Also I thought how the girls could somehow be related to this group ( by family, could thier parents been involved with the defense league?)
Second about the reason given for the supporting couple's death. It said the fence they were on broke from negligence. This leads me to think that the whole " Park Reservation " is just a lie by the town, perhaps hiding the illegal dumpings that have been discussed?
Third is about Tommy's death and how it would four people to take him down. Could the girl's be those four people? Rika and Satoko maybe not, but Mion has guns and Rena is nasty with a cleaver.
That's all I've got for now. Feel free to correct me if any of it is wrong. I won't make any predictions yet, as the lack of information from the anime doesn't justify any. Will just have to wait and see.
Woh woh woh wait a min, I know im a newbie that started watchin this anime, but from ur links, is this anime based on a true story or sumthin? Or did the author actually piked a place like this that can carry out his story? Knowing the fact that this place exist in such rual area.......im gettin goosebumps.. =S
Like kj said, Shirakawa was used as a model for the village of Hinamizawa, so the locations are 100% real. The story and characters, on the other hand, are 100% fiction.
Woh woh woh wait a min, I know im a newbie that started watchin this anime, but from ur links, is this anime based on a true story or sumthin? Or did the author actually piked a place like this that can carry out his story? Knowing the fact that this place exist in such rual area.......im gettin goosebumps.. =S
Much like the model town for Onegai Teacher and Onegai Twins was Lake Kizakiko in Nagano Prefecture (http://www.gulf.or.jp/~masa-k/moe/one2/jyunrei01/jyunrei01.htm), that doesn't necessarily mean a hot babe voiced like oneechan crash lands her UFO in that region.
Ryukishi07 may have gotten the ground laying idea for the story, as this area was a subject for protest back in the mid to late 1950s for a dam construction project. Unlike Hinamizawa however, a dam was indeed built, but not on a scale of submerging the entire village or surrounding areas. The dam that you see in the pictures is exactly that.
SvenTheSweeper
2006-05-04, 18:53
TIPS
I read over the TIPS and have decided to share which ones stand out to me, and offer some thoughts on them.
The TIPS post cover everything from the beginning one called-
“Why does our school have mixed grade levels?” to the one entitled “Does Shion really exist?”
A-The prime suspect of the 1979 lynching murder and dismemberment has not been found.
B-Mion’s uncles are local business owners. She seems to do odd-jobs for them on a regular basis. Her relatives own many stores around the Kakomiya area.
According to the conversation below Mion’s family is also involve in shady and criminal activity.
Begin-
Kei: "...Wow. Mion's family must have an excellent merchant blood in them or something! To have and own so many types of stores is quite amazing!"
Rika: "There's also the loan shark, the jiageya (a type of yakuza that forces people off their property for cheap price in order to sell the property more expensively), the image club, soaplands. They've stretched their hands into a lot of business."
Uh, I think I heard something that I shouldn't have, but anyway...! I understand that her family owns a bunch of businesses in the area.
Kei: "So that's the reason why when I borrow money from her, she's quite erratic in getting it back. It's because she has the blood of loan sharks in her too! Now I get it!"
End-
It seems that the Sonozakis exert a broad influence over the region.
C-The Hinamizawa Dam Construction Project is placed on hiatus and has not been officially canceled.
It is my thinking that the dam would be a threat to the Sonozaki family’s business. The family would probably be heavily involved in stopping its construction.
D-The police refuse to give any detail of the Dam Construction lynching murder to the press.
E-When priest of Furrude Shrine’s died, his death was left to a doctor’s discretion. The police did not take any pictures.
F-Tomitake was fit and athletic man. When he was killed they found bruises on him, and chemical analysis showed he was in an extreme state of excitement. The coroner believes he was assaulted by at least 4 men.
G-Tomitake was likely not a wealthy man. He did not have a car or a license. He travels to Hinamizawa for the Watnagashi festival every season for the last six years. He is not registered in the district of the large cities under to name of Tomitake Jirou.
This suggest that he lived elsewhere, and probably traveled a lot
H-Due trouble caused by the incidents in Hinamizawa, the police has implemented the following policy to protect local residents. 1) Designated investigations are to be kept secret. 2) Information not to be disclosed. 3) Request for non-disclosure from all involved organization.
This is probably why Oishi’s approach to questioning Keiichi, did not involve other people. He had to keep it away form others. That is probably why he pretended to phone Keiichi from a bookstore, in order to disguise himself.
In reading the TIPS I am satisfied that Oishi is not a fake policeman.
I-In the conversation between Kuma and Oishi we learn that Mion’s belongs to a politically powerful family at the city and prefecture level.
The Sonozaki Prefectural and City assemblyman are raucous and intimidating yakuza-like people. They have power and influence in government. The Sonozaki politicos protested Oishi’s investigation methods in the Hinamizawa incidents.
It makes me wonder if the Sonozaki influence has corrupted the police department, or if they have an insider informant?
J-Oishi’s section manger asks him if he is re-investigating the Hinamizawa incidents. Later he tells Oishi to refrain form re-investigating the cases because they are closed. The SM subtly pressures Oishi to stay out of the cases by invoking the possibility of having his retirement pay be increased if he plays by the book. Oishi’s retirement pay is important to him; he has loan debts to pay off and plans to move to Hokkaido to live with his mother.
I can see why Oishi would want the keep a low profile when he is re-investigating the Hinamizawa incidents, through Keiichi. He has retirement and debts he wants to not jeopardize. It would explain why he called Keiichi from a Mahjong Parlor under an a false pretense of being a bookstore owner, why he did not go to Keiichi’s parent or teachers for further investigation, and why he interrogated Keiichi’s in the car and at the restaurant rather his home or school.
K-Keiichi feels like was being stalked at the Sevens Mart, a discount liquor and grocery wholesales store located inside the city. He suspect Rena is the culprit. This would explain how Rena knew that Keiichi was eating Tonkotsu Ginger flavored Ramen in Ep.4. It would also explain why he is easily freaked out Rena when she came to his house.
L-Mion lives with her grandmother, rather than her parents. Keiichi notes this being strange. Rika says it’s a large family with complicated circumstances.
-Mino has twin sister Shion, whose relationship with her family is more mysterious than Mion’s.
M-Mion seems to dislike Shion due her adverse reaction in talking about her. This evidenced by the conversation below.
Begin-
Satoko: "Oh~! I did not know that~! I wonder what kind of person she is. I would definitely like to see her one of these days~!!"
Mion: "No don't! Ugh, I don't think you would want to! Uh...she isn't cute or anything and...she's also selfish and...! Ah...I only talk to her once in a while on the phone and yeah, I haven't seen her lately either...!"
...hey hey, Mion's panicking a bit. That's clearly spilling the beans that 'Shion' that I saw yesterday was a fake... But it's kinda funny to see Mion in such a state so I'll just let it be.
End-
Paranoia833
2006-05-04, 19:54
*snip*
Hmm.
I wonder, I'm prone to baseless conspiricy theories so I could quite well be wrong but I've just had a thought... from the TIP Keiichi seemed to think he'd confirmed 'shion' in the resturant was Mion, yet from episode 5 we know for a fact that Shion exists. Combined with the odd last line from the "Shion" tip...
I'm thinking Shion and Mion get on just fine, and that the reason Mion doesn't want her friends asking about Shion is that they change places from time to time. Why they would change places I don't know, (maybe family related reasons) but if that were the case, it would make sense that Mi and Shi wouldn't want the rest of the club to know both of them, as it would greatly increase the chances of giving the game away.
If my hunch is correct then I get the feeling it's going to become very important to establish when '-on' is Mion and when she's actually Shion. For instance, I'd like to posit that in episode 4 the -on that went on about "sparing that old man" wasn't the same -on that got killed. (which was Mi and which was Shi I don't know).
It actually makes a kind of sense to me, as right after episode 4 finished it bothered me why someone with Mion's apparent common sense would be so f***ing stupid as to try and inject/penalty-game someone who she clearly knew was dangerously paranoid (even if the injection really was malevolent as I thought at the time but am now doubting, it's kind of stupid when the only thing stopping him from turning on you is Rena pinning him, and Rena doesn't seem all that physically strong).
No idea if I'm barking up the wrong tree or not, but it's definately something to think about.
Thewanderer
2006-05-04, 22:00
I was thinking about that syringe/marker pic(with the other weapons) in the other thread, and......is it possible that the syringe scene was actually real, but they wasn't trying to inject bad things in him... but good things? If so, he'd have to have some sort of virus or condition that they know about, perhaps that they themselves are infected with as well(considering that their insane modes aren't K1's hallucinations), and they were trying to inject an antidote in him? Though it can't be a drug of course...
I'm not sure what it has to do with the marker in the pic, but I have another, possibly unrelated theory about the marker penalty game in ep1... Mion practically ordered K1 to walk home with that on... what if it had a chemical in it that was protecting him from something?
Can anyone connect my theories to anything else?
Jellyfish Marine
2006-05-05, 00:01
The whole drugging Keiichi/Death By Bats/Death by Claws
is an elaborate hallucination and Keiichi wakes up just fine in EP5?
No, it's not like that.
Someone has clearly explained that with examples, it's in this thread, I believe.
Ps. Kj-san, thanks for correcting my mistake about Takano ^^
DingoEnderZOE2
2006-05-05, 05:30
Okay about the Sevens Mart tip in the TIPS section:
Sevens Mart is a discount liquor and grocery wholesales store located inside the city.
Keiichi's mom: "What's this, Keiichi? There's so much! You can't just get all the different flavors, you know?!"
I dumped cup noodles of various different colors all into the shopping cart.
Keiichi: "The cup noodles recently are all so fancy, and there are a lot of different types too. I want to try each one out at least once."
I know that this was half a selfish request, but I thought I'd make a challenge just for the heck of it.
Keiichi's dad: "Keiichi. Get the ones they sell in whole boxes, they're cheaper."
The old man's grumbling.
Well, I figured it'd end up like this.
If the old man comes into the play, then it can't be helped.
Keiichi: "But then there's only one flavor! I'll get tired of it!"
I'm resisting only in form.
Inside my mind, I have already given up and is lost over which box of ramen I should buy.
Keiichi's mom: "If you can't decide then Okaasan is going to pick for you."
Even if you rush me, it doesn't help...!
I quickly departed to search for the box of ramen that I want.
Keiichi's mom: "Tonkotsu Ginger flavor, giant cup? Hey Keiichi, can't you get something more normal?"
If I let the old hag pick, there's a good chance it'll be a steady choice like soy sauce or salt flavored.
Keiichi: "Tonkotsu tastes great! I know it's a big serving, but that doesn't mean it's tasteless...!!"
In this reminiscence, I was justifying my choice for the box of ramen that I had picked.
*screen freezes*
There's no way that I could turn around in this world, whose time has already ended, and has been laminated and packaged....
That's why.... the only thing that I can do is to make the eyesight, hearing, and feeling of the me in this time even more sensitive.
No matter where I searched inside my vision...... I can't find Rena.
Let's go back in time and look.
But of course, she's not found anywhere.
*screen blacks out*
Then... was she observing me from a blindspot outside of my vision...?
I go back on my hearing and feelings, and search again.
The presences of other customers.
All of them are mixed up... moving around randomly on their own.
None of them are observing me steadily, nor is there any presence of anyone following behind me.
None. Should be none. Probably none.
No matter how much my guard was down at the time... I would've definitely noticed if someone was following right behind me.
I'm laughing bitterly here for using an ambiguous expression like "probably", and yet using a contradicting adjective like "definitely"....
At that time, the replay of time stopped with a shiver.
.........There was a shadow presence behind me.
It was... a fear that can't be described.
If it was a presence that appeared behind the real me right now, then it's possible for me to turn around and make sure.
However, for the me inside a world whose time has already ended, it's impossible to turn around.
While carrying such a horrifying shadow behind me... I ran around the store happily looking for boxes of cup ramens...?
While making rude remarks about the old hag, I ran around the instant noodle aisle....
But.... behind me, that presence always stuck right onto me. It dangled right after me like a shadow.
Without...... a way to make sure of something, and not realizing it until just now...... is actually such a horrifying and repulsive thing......
I happily ran across...... the world whose time has already ended.
I held onto the cardboard box.
Patapata. (footsteps)
......But, if I listen to those footsteps carefully again...... there was a 'petapeta', something other than my own footsteps was definitely included in there as well.
Patapatapata. Petapetapeta.
Patapata. Petapeta.
Patapatapata. Petapetapeta.
Exactly the same as my running, the 'petapeta' sound of footsteps that sounded like they were made by bare feet followed behind me.
I happily ran across...... the world whose time has already ended.
But that was only because...... I couldn't hear it.
No, it is because I heard it that I'm able to recall it like this.
... I heard it, but I didn't mind it.
That's why I didn't turn around.
That's why, I couldn't turn around...!!!
In the world whose time has already ended, I'm always being chased by a 'petapeta' sound of footsteps.
I can't run any faster and escape either.
For the me whose time has already ended, I can only run at the predetermined speed.
Nor can I turn around.
Since the me whose time has already ended never turned around once.
And then, I arrive back at the sides of my parents, and begin a conversation. While carrying the shadowy presence with me.
Since I'm not moving, the shadow doesn't move either. Therefore there's no sound. That's all.
At the time, I was supposedly conversing with my parents without moving a single step.
I remained standing perfectly still. No doubt about it.
And yet, ......a 'peta' ... sound was made.
That can't be possible.
If I run 3 steps, you follow 3 steps. That was the rule, wasn't it...?
There are no more sounds after that.
At that instant, the entire world had a power outage.... It was a sudden total darkness.
This reminiscence trip is over now.
I want to sleep for today now.
I want to end this.
Somebody turn on the lights.
But my body won't move.
...As if it was sewed onto... this world whose time has already ended.
Peta.
The hairs on my entire body stand up.
No way...?!
You've been breaking the rules since earlier!!
I'm not walking!
So you can't walk either!!
I'm not moving! So you don't move either!! Follow the rules!!!
Peta.
And yet, once more, that sound echoed across the darkness.
The hairs on the back of my head stirs up.
To a distance behind me close enough that I can't tell whether it's touching my hairs or not....... it has come.
Why can't I move like how the presence behind me is moving?!?!
... I soon realized it.
I can move.
...... I just can't turn around because I'm afraid.
Now's the only time I can turn around.
The action was not allowed in the world whose time has already ended.... But...... I have to turn around now......!!
All the cells within my body, as if trying to stop me from doing this forbidden action, begin to claim of pains like needles pricking away at every single pore on my skin....
I'll turn around!
I'll turn around!
It ain't scary at all!!
I'll turn around!
I'll turn around!
It ain't scary at all!!!!
It was a scream without sounds within my chest.
oOoOoOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!
I turned around.
......And there, .......... I didn't get the meaning of it at first.
Keiichi: ".........Eh, ....................Eh?"
This is..................... Eh?
With the situation placed in front of me, it's like someone who has to take a bite out of an apple and drink it's juice before realizing that it's an apple......... my brain begins to eat the apple.
Munch, munch, it begins to chew on it....
Drinking the juice......... It realized that it's an apple.
In other words......... what's in front of me is,
GYAAAAAaAAaAAaAAaAAAaAAAaAaaA........
Okay I'm well aware that this TIP is being presented from Keichi's POV after his death as he tries to figure out where Rena was during his trip at the Sevens mart. But what I'm confused about is what happened near the end of this tip, like what was going on after the "Somebody turn on the lights" remark? And lastly what was in front of Keichi that made him scream??
Chibi_Faerie
2006-05-05, 07:16
My own little speculations after rewatching everything last night (Yes I broke me rule of not watching this at night ever again.) Mostly guess work and just random commenting on things so far, probably nothing.
The marker, I think because of the cutesyness of the club games really caused us to ignore this little thing. But I got thinking, especially after I saw the picture of the needle and the marker in the image thread. I have a few ideas about it. Say that there really is a toxin or poison, or what ever you want to call it at play here. And the ink of the marker was laced with it. Stuff is absorbed through the skin correct? Our pores are known for taking things in, oils, dirt, such stuff. They really laid it on him thick too. I mean he looked like a panda bear. Uber cute, but that was a lot of marker on that guys face. And Mion told him specifically to not wash it off till he got home. Sure it could be part of the punishment, but it could also give things time be taken in through the skin. Even if it wasn't laced with something, did they have Non-toxic markers back then o.o? He could have even got some in his mouth if he struggled enough and Mion's marker went off course though there isn't any sign of that on his face lol. (The flower at the end of that scene seemed out of place to me but I could be wrong, the sound effect fit but the flower...) I mean he did get pretty freaked out when Rena appeared with the knife machete ax thing... Yeah I know after reading the article and the situation itself could creep people out... I think it definitely added to his paranoia. But he had told her that they would need something like that to get Kenta-kun out of the rubbish pile.
Then afterward things went down hill really, from meeting Oishi (Dude bugs me!), his expressions, purposely telling Keichi all these things. I mean if he had never known anything and gone on as things were before all this, he might never have gotten quite so paranoid and snapped in episode four. He wouldn't have gotten so suspicious and the talks with psycho Rena and Mion would never have happened. Maybe even "USODA!!!" might not have happened... And if "USODA!!!" hadn't happened (as a lot of people agree or disagree) things might not have gone even further, as others have suggested. Not hearing things from Oishi about the photographer and such, he might not have been so concerned when he heard Mion and Rena talking... And had he not gone to lunch after the shot at the doctors (blarg, the doctor looked like guy in episode four that pulled up in the white van, but I could be over imagining things myself.) he wouldn't have learned more, and wouldn't have been so on edge when Mion and Rena stopped by, not to mention they wouldn't have gone freaky perhaps about lunch (Weather that was hallucination or not I dunno and not judging yet) and brought him the food with the hidden needle. (If the needle was there... And if it was, I'm betting that it's long gone. So many missing parts. I would like to have known Keichii's parents reaction to his outburst and the throwing of food. And what his mother or father did with the needle afterwards (Assuming it was real, I wouldn't put it past someone to do so. We used to have to check and cut up our candy apples at Halloween because people used to prank them or put yes needles in them that could have not only been dangerous, but dipped in or coated with something dangerous.)
And the final injection, was it another dose of what ever Keichi was getting, or was it an antidote. Was it even real? Are Mion and Rena bad, good, possessed by a supernatural being, under an influence, all of the above or a mix of the above...? there are so many perspectives and suspitions you could take with this first chapter, that it's no wonder we have been advised not to judge things by the first chapter... I know I'm eagerly awaiting to find out more and figure out whats going on...
SvenTheSweeper
2006-05-05, 07:51
No, it's not like that.
Someone has clearly explained that with examples, it's in this thread, I believe.
Yeah, I know that already. I've been reading the Higurahshi posts by the forum members who have been writing the TIPS. I meant it as joke poking fun at the dumb plot devices.:naughty:
Thewanderer
2006-05-05, 08:35
My own little speculations after rewatching everything last night (Yes I broke me rule of not watching this at night ever again.) Mostly guess work and just random commenting on things so far, probably nothing.
The marker, I think because of the cutesyness of the club games really caused us to ignore this little thing. But I got thinking, especially after I saw the picture of the needle and the marker in the image thread. I have a few ideas about it. Say that there really is a toxin or poison, or what ever you want to call it at play here. And the ink of the marker was laced with it. Stuff is absorbed through the skin correct? Our pores are known for taking things in, oils, dirt, such stuff. They really laid it on him thick too. I mean he looked like a panda bear. Uber cute, but that was a lot of marker on that guys face. And Mion told him specifically to not wash it off till he got home. Sure it could be part of the punishment, but it could also give things time be taken in through the skin. Even if it wasn't laced with something, did they have Non-toxic markers back then o.o? He could have even got some in his mouth if he struggled enough and Mion's marker went off course though there isn't any sign of that on his face lol. (The flower at the end of that scene seemed out of place to me but I could be wrong, the sound effect fit but the flower...) I mean he did get pretty freaked out when Rena appeared with the knife machete ax thing... Yeah I know after reading the article and the situation itself could creep people out... I think it definitely added to his paranoia. But he had told her that they would need something like that to get Kenta-kun out of the rubbish pile.
Then afterward things went down hill really, from meeting Oishi (Dude bugs me!), his expressions, purposely telling Keichi all these things. I mean if he had never known anything and gone on as things were before all this, he might never have gotten quite so paranoid and snapped in episode four. He wouldn't have gotten so suspicious and the talks with psycho Rena and Mion would never have happened. Maybe even "USODA!!!" might not have happened... And if "USODA!!!" hadn't happened (as a lot of people agree or disagree) things might not have gone even further, as others have suggested. Not hearing things from Oishi about the photographer and such, he might not have been so concerned when he heard Mion and Rena talking... And had he not gone to lunch after the shot at the doctors (blarg, the doctor looked like guy in episode four that pulled up in the white van, but I could be over imagining things myself.) he wouldn't have learned more, and wouldn't have been so on edge when Mion and Rena stopped by, not to mention they wouldn't have gone freaky perhaps about lunch (Weather that was hallucination or not I dunno and not judging yet) and brought him the food with the hidden needle. (If the needle was there... And if it was, I'm betting that it's long gone. So many missing parts. I would like to have known Keichii's parents reaction to his outburst and the throwing of food. And what his mother or father did with the needle afterwards (Assuming it was real, I wouldn't put it past someone to do so. We used to have to check and cut up our candy apples at Halloween because people used to prank them or put yes needles in them that could have not only been dangerous, but dipped in or coated with something dangerous.)
And the final injection, was it another dose of what ever Keichi was getting, or was it an antidote. Was it even real? Are Mion and Rena bad, good, possessed by a supernatural being, under an influence, all of the above or a mix of the above...? there are so many perspectives and suspitions you could take with this first chapter, that it's no wonder we have been advised not to judge things by the first chapter... I know I'm eagerly awaiting to find out more and figure out whats going on...
That was exactly my point! Though you shouldn't look at it one way... this anime incourages you to think outside the box. There's a chance that......the marker could've been used for something other than applying a poison or toxin. There's no doubt in my mind that it was altered, but the intentions of the girls is still questionable.
Okay, I know that the marker was pictured with the other "weapons" of the series, but there's a chance that it could be an antidote/cure for something, even if the injection wasn't.Still my theory tho:heh:
Jellyfish Marine
2006-05-05, 09:10
Yeah, I know that already. I've been reading the Higurahshi posts by the forum members who have been writing the TIPS. I meant it as joke poking fun at the dumb plot devices.:naughty:
I'm terribly sorry about it then TT-TT Since my english is not good, I often interprete things wrongly. I'm very sorry =w=
It seems like everyone has started talking about the marker and the syringe. Maybe those who has no clue what those are about should check out the gallery thread. It's a good piece of hint, I think.
Paranoia833
2006-05-05, 12:19
I don't know... I saw the gallery picture ages ago and I think people are reading too much into it.
I think people are jumping to the most conspiricy theory-ish explanations and ignoring the blindingly obvious one.
Remember that Keiichi was more than a little delusional at the time of the final injection, and that if Mion and Rena had wanted to inject him with some drug or toxin why wouldn't they do it when he was asleep? And why let him keep the baseball bat?
I think all the hints dropped by the game players so far point to Keiichi as having misinterpreted that whole scene.
Thewanderer
2006-05-05, 12:30
I don't know... I saw the gallery picture ages ago and I think people are reading too much into it.
I think people are jumping to the most conspiricy theory-ish explanations and ignoring the blindingly obvious one.
Remember that Keiichi was more than a little delusional at the time of the final injection, and that if Mion and Rena had wanted to inject him with some drug or toxin why wouldn't they do it when he was asleep? And why let him keep the baseball bat?
I think all the hints dropped by the game players so far point to Keiichi as having misinterpreted that whole scene.
What're you saying? That it's not real? It wouldn't be among those pictures if it wasn't, IMO.
HUGE Hint:
In the picture with the syringe and the marker, it reads in Japanese: "please don't mistake one for the other."
Though that doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be a real syringe coming out in later chapters... Like I said, the syringe is a huge piece of the puzzle in either case.
And I reiterate once again: trigger point. That's the key.
Chibi_Faerie
2006-05-05, 13:07
Ok then, now knowing the huge hint...
It leads to perhaps that Keiichi was so incredibly paranoid, out of it and hallucinating at this point that perhaps the punishment game was the marker again, and not a needle. He mistook one for the other, a marker mistaken for a needle... But he was so paranoid that he saw the marker as a needle and totally snapped...? Gosh I need to learn to read Japanese!!
Freakman
2006-05-05, 13:19
It's a shame that the scene at the end of the festival with Tomitake and the club wasn't depicted in the anime + Mion line before the Keiichi batsugemu scene in ep 4.
It deprives anime viewers from a possible clue.
The "gomenasai" from the dying Keiichi came from Rena in the same episode, the throat scratching thing was told to him in earlier episodes and the syringe he saw while he was at the clinic. So was Keiichi's hallucinations and actions somehow based on his past experiences? It will be interesting to see if there's any parallel to the ohagi/needle and the van incident in the later chapters.
People think the injection the doctor gave could contain hallucinogen, I think that point is valid. Another one I thought of is the talk with Oishi in the restaurant. Oishi told Keiichi how his friends were linked to the murders and warned him that he was in danger. Before that, I think he hardly thought he would be in danger. As far as he is concerned, he was only the informant hiding this secret from his friends. That warning, could it be what we call a sublimal message planted into Keiichi's mind?
Another key scene would be the ohagi incident, irregardless of whether the needle was real or not. It did start off an irreversible chain of events where Keiichi became convinced his friends were trying to kill him. Before that, he was still somewhat friendly with his friends. Even when Mion and Rena visted, he was still playing around and asking if they were really there for club activity. And more importantly, he ate the ohagi (be it in his mind or he really ate it). So we can probably establish that he trusted his friends enough to eat the food they offered.
Yeah I'm thinking the trigger point is quite possibly the needle. In that case, the question would then be, did the doctor's jab or Oishi's suggestion or both combined cause him to imagine the needle? Was there a parallel incident causing Keiichi to imagine the needle? Was it something else he bit on?
Okay about the Sevens Mart tip in the TIPS section:That tip seems to me like it's describing what was going on in Keiichi's mind from the time he was on the run till he tore his throat in the phone booth. The shadow behind his back that he couldn't shake off, that he didn't dare turn around to look, he said the same things to Oishi too. The last part could describe how his hands were tearing through his throat (adam's apple?), but his brain was registering those action later ie. his hands were no longer under his control or something. Urgh, I'm getting goosebumps just typing that out! :upset:
Thewanderer
2006-05-05, 15:19
Ok then, now knowing the huge hint...
It leads to perhaps that Keiichi was so incredibly paranoid, out of it and hallucinating at this point that perhaps the punishment game was the marker again, and not a needle. He mistook one for the other, a marker mistaken for a needle... But he was so paranoid that he saw the marker as a needle and totally snapped...? Gosh I need to learn to read Japanese!!
That gives me a slight idea. Speculation time again:heh: So if the Syringe/marker pic apparently says not to mistake one for the other, what if after the marker incident, which was actually the first syringe incident, he THINKS it's a marker after the shot?Okay, that might be a l'il too farfetched, but still possible.
Paranoia833
2006-05-05, 15:46
That gives me a slight idea. Speculation time again:heh: So if the Syringe/marker pic apparently says not to mistake one for the other, what if after the marker incident, which was actually the first syringe incident, he THINKS it's a marker after the shot?Okay, that might be a l'il too farfetched, but still possible.
Possible but not particularly probable (and the first person to quote Sherlock Holmes to me gets a whack from the +4 baseball bat of Loli-slaying :p )
I mean I know TV-show speculation is hardly a science, but let's try applying some mangled form of Occam's Razor.
Assuming from the picture and KJ's hints that the Keiichi confuses a marker and a syringe at some point, it makes more sense that Keiichi confuses Mion's second penalty game (as by the this point he is extremely paranoid and possibly prone to hallucinations with the 'slit eye' syndrome, not to mention the needle never pricks him, so he won't notice the lack of pain) than him confusing a needle for a marker in the first game (when he shows no signs of mental instability, and where he would be required to completely fail to notice the pain of injection).
Hence it's far simpler to assume that, in this case at least, there never was a syringe. The doctor's injection on the other hand, is potentially more suspicious.
Unless additional evidence crops up, I'd say it's easier to assume Chibi has it right.
Chibi_Faerie
2006-05-05, 16:36
*Makes a mental note to not quote Sherlock Holmes when Paranoia is present.* If only more could be seen of all this between those gaps in what happens at parts.
Originally posted by Paranoia833
I mean I know TV-show speculation is hardly a science, but let's try applying some mangled form of Occam's Razor.
Assuming from the picture and KJ's hints that the Keiichi confuses a marker and a syringe at some point, it makes more sense that Keiichi confuses Mion's second penalty game (as by the this point he is extremely paranoid and possibly prone to hallucinations with the 'slit eye' syndrome, not to mention the needle never pricks him, so he won't notice the lack of pain) than him confusing a needle for a marker in the first game (when he shows no signs of mental instability, and where he would be required to completely fail to notice the pain of injection).
Hence it's far simpler to assume that, in this case at least, there never was a syringe. The doctor's injection on the other hand, is potentially more suspicious.
I agree with this, we don't even see if the needle makes contact and injects anything. It skips to memories. Which really makes me think it was only a marker and hallucinations. The first injection by the doctor is the one that is very suspicious.. I mean what doctor gives injections for a cold. And Keiichi just said he wasn't feeling well, perhaps faking and having to go to the doctor on his mothers orders. Or hallucinating that he is sick himself maybe from stressing over things? Either way the doctor would know anyways and then what reason would there be to give him a shot...? And if he had a slight cold, something to prevent it from getting worse...? I just couldn't see that.
All I know is I wanna see more and find out more about all of this. One thing just seems to lead to another or at most a half a dozen other possibilities...
Possible but not particularly probable (and the first person to quote Sherlock Holmes to me gets a whack from the +4 baseball bat of Loli-slaying :p )
I mean I know TV-show speculation is hardly a science, but let's try applying some mangled form of Occam's Razor.
Assuming from the picture and KJ's hints that the Keiichi confuses a marker and a syringe at some point, it makes more sense that Keiichi confuses Mion's second penalty game (as by the this point he is extremely paranoid and possibly prone to hallucinations with the 'slit eye' syndrome, not to mention the needle never pricks him, so he won't notice the lack of pain) than him confusing a needle for a marker in the first game (when he shows no signs of mental instability, and where he would be required to completely fail to notice the pain of injection).
Hence it's far simpler to assume that, in this case at least, there never was a syringe. The doctor's injection on the other hand, is potentially more suspicious.
Unless additional evidence crops up, I'd say it's easier to assume Chibi has it right.
But it is rather hard to believe that girls would try to play a penalty game, if we assume they have at least some common sense, they would know that it isn't safe. Mion heard him - "You won't get me that easily" and Rena expirienced his determination - crushed fingers. There must be something deeper behind this marker and syringe...l I wonder how many times we have seen Sion in first four episodes, thinking that she is Mion herself.
But it is rather hard to believe that girls would try to play a penalty game, if we assume they have at least some common sense, they would know that it isn't safe. Mion heard him - "You won't get me that easily" and Rena expirienced his determination - crushed fingers. There must be something deeper behind this marker and syringe...l I wonder how many times we have seen Sion in first four episodes, thinking that she is Mion herself.
To get rid of wild speculations: Shion does not make an appearance in Onikakushi-hen.
To get rid of wild speculations: Shion does not make an appearance in Onikakushi-hen
Just now you have ruined my new theory ;(.
Warrrghh... preparations for comprehensive exams for graduation means I can't spend time thinking about whats going on in this series... definitely following it because of the brilliant creep-out/horror (one of my favourite genres) and the lovable(?) psycho-lolis.
Come to think of it... following on a this blog post (http://www.yayapapayaz.com/handofgory/2006/05/04/psycho-is-the-new-moe), does anyone know the development of the girls-who-go-psycho-on-you trend? Besides Higurashi, there's Kaede of Shuffle, Sakura of Fate Stay Night, the girls of School Days... I'm personally also wondering how the Battle Royale nutcases of Soma Mitsuko and Chigusa Takako fit into this.
PS. If there is a thread somewhere that talks about this please point me there :heh: my attempts at searching didn't prove fruitful.
Warrrghh... preparations for comprehensive exams for graduation means I can't spend time thinking about whats going on in this series... definitely following it because of the brilliant creep-out/horror (one of my favourite genres) and the lovable(?) psycho-lolis.
Come to think of it... following on a this blog post (http://www.yayapapayaz.com/handofgory/2006/05/04/psycho-is-the-new-moe), does anyone know the development of the girls-who-go-psycho-on-you trend? Besides Higurashi, there's Kaede of Shuffle, Sakura of Fate Stay Night, the girls of School Days... I'm personally also wondering how the Battle Royale nutcases of Soma Mitsuko and Chigusa Takako fit into this.
PS. If there is a thread somewhere that talks about this please point me there :heh: my attempts at searching didn't prove fruitful.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=550685&postcount=117
Also, this should be useful in this theory discussion page:
Who is the "director":
At first, one might think the "director" was Oyashiro-sama himself, but you would see in this scene: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/Director.png
That the person in the labcoat is probably the "director" and also a doctor. Personally, I think the whole incident was a coup by Takano-san and the "director."
Think of other homonyms/synonyms of the word "kantoku" in Japanese. The word "kantoku" can mean a lot of things, you know?
If I were the translator, I wouldn't translate "kantoku" in this sense as "the director." I would use the word...."the manager." What kind of managers are there? It important to keep that in mind as we get to Tatarigoroshi-hen. By the time we get there, "the director" translation will make no complete sense as opposed to "the manager" translation.
Come to think of it... following on a this blog post (http://www.yayapapayaz.com/handofgory/2006/05/04/psycho-is-the-new-moe), does anyone know the development of the girls-who-go-psycho-on-you trend? Besides Higurashi, there's Kaede of Shuffle, Sakura of Fate Stay Night, the girls of School Days... I'm personally also wondering how the Battle Royale nutcases of Soma Mitsuko and Chigusa Takako fit into this.
And it gets even scarier to know that we have Nevada-tan and Sakakibara in real life.
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