Notes about Bankai [Archive]

Animizzle

2005-12-19, 02:59

MrHahn seems to have registered after january 2005, so when(or if) he comes back he can re-post this if prefered. In the meanwhile I think we should keep his fine post stickied.

Originally posted by MrHahn:

It has really gotten on by nerves slightly that people constantly ask questions along the lines of 'was that a bankai' (levels of disappointment over how pathetic the 'bankai' may be and correctness of spelling and grammar may vary greatly).

So I'll write out a series of notes about what sets Bankai apart from the rest of the rubbish.

1) The golden rule:
The first time we see the Bankai, the character will *always* 100% of the time before or during the charge up of the Bankai say the line 'bankai'. Even Tousen (who's Suzumushi is a bit of an oddball in terms of releases) says bankai beforehand.

2)The zanpakuto will change form into something which will stay until the owner wishes it to go away or can't sustain it
Self explanatory. BK has a massive cloud of blades which stays as a cloud of blades until he says reform. Renji has that snake whip which stayed until he nearly died. Konamura's warrior must have been unsummoned if he was to get out of there without destroying that general area etc.

3)The name of the Bankai is an extension of the normal name
e.g. Zabimaru-> Hihou Zabimaru
or
Senponzakura -> Senponzakura Kageyoshi
or
Tengen -> Kokujou Tengen Myou-oh

Important note: if a bankai is multi tiered (has multiple abilities associated with it) then the extended name gets an extension when a different tier is used. (Any examples will be a spoiler)

4)The Bankai 95% of the time creates something that either disrupts the terrain, or something that changes the appearance of the character:
When Byakuya uses Bankai the background goes all dark, but I think that's for effect. A better example is say Tousen's Suzumishi Tsuishiki Enma Kourogi. As for the other type (which is rarer) Hihou Zabimaru gives Renji a fur mantle and a baboon skull on his arm.

5)The at least for the first time we see it, the character usually does something that is nothing like any physical attack:
Tousen's crossguard's ring expands to a ginourmous size, Byakuya drops his sword into the ground, Renji holds his sword in a drawing pose in front of him, Ichigo... well that's a spoiler.

6)If the ability creates a separate entity, it's most probably a Bankai
Konjiki Ashogi Jizou (12th squad capt) has a centipede that can move by Mayuri's will. Kokujou Tengen Myuo-oh is a huge armour laden warrior that seems to mirror Konamura's movements. This is not so much as a definite identifier as a note. Not all Bankai's are separate entities.

Important note: Hitsugaya Toshirou's Shikai seems to create an ice dragon, but that's merely a by product of Hitsugaya's reiatsu from his Shikai freezing moisture in the air.

Kurosaki Ichigo
Abilities: Compact form allows high speed
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/9607/ichogo10ie.jpghttp://img454.imageshack.us/img454/799/ichigo27xy.jpghttp://img365.imageshack.us/img365/2686/bleachichigobankai7nx.jpg
Kuchiki Byakuya
Abilities: Incredible amount of swords nearly impossible to escape from
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/8390/byakuya16rv.jpghttp://img454.imageshack.us/img454/3820/byakuya26jq.jpghttp://img454.imageshack.us/img454/821/byakuya30ip.jpghttp://img358.imageshack.us/img358/92/byakuya43dk.jpg
Tousen Kaname
Abilities: Alternate space where all senses are disabled
http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/7643/tousen17hc.jpghttp://img492.imageshack.us/img492/1150/tousen26qz.jpghttp://img492.imageshack.us/img492/1689/tousen38xt.jpg
Komamura Sajin
Abilities: Unknown, though probably it's forte is bad ass strength. Picture implies it copies Komamura's movements.
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2193/kamarga11ym.jpghttp://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1301/kamarga27if.jpg
Hitsugaya Toushirou
Abilities: Freezes opponent/surroundings
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5706/hitsugaya16lq.jpghttp://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6382/hitsugaya20bi.jpg
Abarai Renji
Abilities: Can extend at will
http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/8498/rneji10bv.jpghttp://img457.imageshack.us/img457/29/renji29vu.jpg
Kurotsuchi Mayuri
Abilities: Poisonous attacks
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2163/freakbankai16ct.jpghttp://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6710/freakbankai22dj.jpg
Apologies for the dreadful quality of the pictures. Pictures hosted by www.imageshack.org

Ichimaru

2005-12-23, 02:28

The special ability what the bankai does is important, but what i think that is more important then its special abilities is wiether the bankai weapon is short range or long rang weapon.

A good example is renjis bankai, which is more suited for long range attacks, but when the enemy gets up close to him he has no defense and gets pwnage like in the fight against kuchiki.

Animizzle

2005-12-25, 10:57

Because it seemed like fun, I decided to add pictures of all the known Bankai up untill now. If I forgot anything, or made a mistake, please PM me, and don't post about it here.

KaneDragon

2005-12-25, 21:20

That was my suggestion... Bankais are manifestations of soul slayers. It's certainly an unusual (and very much separate) form and follows Rule 6, if not the Golden Rule. Does the manga have an answer?

Dark`

2005-12-25, 22:49

1) The golden rule:
The first time we see the Bankai, the character will *always* 100% of the time before or during the charge up of the Bankai say the line 'bankai'. Even Tousen (who's Suzumushi is a bit of an oddball in terms of releases) says bankai beforehand.
I'm just going by translations...so I could very well be wrong, but in the manga, there was no mention of the word(s) "Bankai" when Tousen released his Zanpakutou. It was there in the anime...but not in my translation of the manga. I'll ask my friends about it...but it seems weird that the translators would leave that out if it was there in the first place.

As for Captain Unohana...there has been no definite answer on whether that was Shikai or Bankai. The manga, up to the current chapter of 209, does not give any more information on Bankai than what was shown in the anime up to the current episode of 62. So far, it does seem like any kind of manifestations by a Zanpakutou have been caused by Bankai, so it seems like a reasonable note to abide by, but there are still [a minimum of] 4 Bankais that we haven't seen yet: Yamamoto Genryuusai, Soi Fong, Kyouraku Shunsui and Ukitake Jyuushiro (5 if we include Unohana Retsu...since we don't know if that is her Shikai or Bankai).

Thewanderer

2005-12-25, 23:06

I'm just going by translations...so I could very well be wrong, but in the manga, there was no mention of the word(s) "Bankai" when Tousen released his Zanpakutou. It was there in the anime...but not in my translation of the manga. I'll ask my friends about it...but it seems weird that the translators would leave that out if it was there in the first place.

As for Captain Unohana...there has been no definite answer on whether that was Shikai or Bankai. The manga, up to the current chapter of 209, does not give any more information on Bankai than what was shown in the anime up to the current episode of 62. So far, it does seem like any kind of manifestations by a Zanpakutou have been caused by Bankai, so it seems like a reasonable note to abide by, but there are still [a minimum of] 4 Bankais that we haven't seen yet: Yamamoto Genryuusai, Soi Fong, Kyouraku Shunsui and Ukitake Jyuushiro (5 if we include Unohana Retsu...since we don't know if that is her Shikai or Bankai).
Gin's too...

Dark`

2005-12-25, 23:31

Gin's too...
I said minimum of 4. I opted not to include Ichimaru Gin and Aizen Sousuke in that list because, technically speaking, they aren't Captains anymore, and I was referring to only Captains at that point.

But yes, you are correct, we have yet to see what Ichimaru Gin and Aizen Sousuke's Bankais are.

We have yet to see what any other possible Bankais are too, such as Kurosaki Isshin and other Vice-Captains who may have or could achieve Bankai...not to mentioned the Visored and Arrancars who may possibly have Bankai as well. I say possibly, which mean they may have it, not they have it for sure. =p

Thewanderer

2005-12-25, 23:51

Arti

2005-12-26, 00:18

I said minimum of 4. I opted not to include Ichimaru Gin and Aizen Sousuke in that list because, technically speaking, they aren't Captains anymore, and I was referring to only Captains at that point.

But yes, you are correct, we have yet to see what Ichimaru Gin and Aizen Sousuke's Bankais are.

We have yet to see what any other possible Bankais are too, such as Kurosaki Isshin and other Vice-Captains who may have or could achieve Bankai...not to mentioned the Visored and Arrancars who may possibly have Bankai as well. I say possibly, which mean they may have it, not they have it for sure. =p
Not to mention Urahara and possibly Yoruichi.

Dark`

2005-12-26, 00:50

I'm quite sure that Tousen said "Ban Kai" in manga.
He might very well have...it's just that in the translations I got...he didn't. That's why I was never adamant that it was a mistake, but rather that from my experience, he didn't say it in the manga. Of course, I don't know how to read Japanese myself, otherwise I'd check the raw to make sure.

Edit: Nevermind, you're probably right. I just noticed that my scanlations are missing a page from that chapter...Tousen probably said Bankai in that page...ugh. So sorry, disregard my previous comment about Tousen not saying Bankai.

CLockw0rk

2005-12-29, 21:35

Just curious are u sure that, that is Unohanas bankaki?

Altharion

2005-12-29, 22:45

i am quite certain that is unohana's shikai and not bankai.

Starks

2005-12-30, 00:30

Minatzuki = Shikai

Animizzle

2005-12-31, 09:16

Dark`

2005-12-31, 12:00

Due to reasonable arguments I removed Unohana's "bankai".

Personally I believe it's quite plausible that thing is her bankai. After all, (correct me if im wrong) we haven't seen any Shikai that manifested a seperate entity. Bankai's on the other hand do...
An no I don't think the mere manifestation of her Zanpaktuo the abilities that we saw. (I.e. the manifestation of Zangetsu or Renji's soul slayer.)

Anyway, until solid proof is ours, I'll leave it at this.
True...but remember the Golden Rule:

1) The golden rule:
The first time we see the Bankai, the character will *always* 100% of the time before or during the charge up of the Bankai say the line 'bankai'. Even Tousen (who's Suzumushi is a bit of an oddball in terms of releases) says bankai beforehand.

Granted, Unohana had already released Minatzuki when we saw her next...but according to the Golden Rule, it shouldn't be her Bankai. Not saying it isn't beyond a shadow of a doubt, but it conflicts with the rule nonetheless. My theory is that in her attempt to save Hitsugaya and Hinamori from what Aizen did, she was going to use her Bankai (extreme healing! =p), but they didn't want to reveal it yet and so they kept the view on Isane. That's my theory anyways...could very well be wrong.

Souryu

2005-12-31, 12:22

I think that Minatzuki is a shikai because... its name is composed of only one word. Think with me:

Ichigo's Shikai: Zangetsu --> Ichigo's Bankai: Tensa Zangetsu
Renji's Shikai: Zabimaru --> Renji's Bankai: Hiho Zabimaru.

All of the bankais up to now have two or more words on their names. And, if Minatzuki is really a bankai... what would be its shikai's name? Mina? Tzuki? Way lame LoL.

rukia82

2005-12-31, 12:32

Dark`

2005-12-31, 12:45

@Souryu: Renji's Shikai is "Hoero ZUbimaru"
Byakuya's SHikai is "Chire senbonzakura"
Hinamori, Kira and others have Shikais with two names!
Hoero, Zabimaru more or less means Howl, Zabimaru

Chire, Senbonzakura more or less means Scatter, Senbonzakura

That's actually less of two names and more of a "keyword" or "catch phrase" they use upon releasing their Zanpakutous. It also relates (somewhat) to the nature of what their Zanpakutou does as well (ie - Byakuya's Zanpakutou becomes thousands of tiny blades that "scatter"). I'm not quite sure how often this applies as I don't remember all the Zanpakutou release phrases...but it seems like there would be a number of them that relate, otherwise I probably wouldn't have gotten this impression. I could be wrong though. :heh:

MrHahn

2005-12-31, 13:00

Hoero, Zabimaru more or less means Howl, Zabimaru

Chire, Senbonzakura more or less means Scatter, Senbonzakura

That's actually less of two names and more of a "keyword" or "catch phrase" they use upon releasing their Zanpakutous. It also relates (somewhat) to the nature of what their Zanpakutou does as well (ie - Byakuya's Zanpakutou becomes thousands of tiny blades that "scatter"). I'm not quite sure how often this applies as I don't remember all the Zanpakutou release phrases...but it seems like there would be a number of them that relate, otherwise I probably wouldn't have gotten this impression. I could be wrong though. :heh:

The trip phrases for Shikai do relate to what they do.

Gin:
Ikoroso, Shinsou: Shoot to kill, Shinsou
Shinsou shoots towards the enemy with every intent to kill. >.> <.<

Tousen:
Nake Suzumushi: Sing Suzumushi
Ringing noise KOs people

Histugaya:
(Forgotten the Jap phrase): Sit on the frosted heavens, Gyurenmaru
Freezes stuff

Kira:
(Again, trip phrase has been forgotten): Raise your head/show your face
Just watch the animation.

As for Unohona, we have no clue as to what it may be. It seems to be a separate entity, suggesting it's a bankai, but we don't actually hear her say the trip phrase for Minazuki, so we just assume it's an oddball Shikai

Dark`

2005-12-31, 19:16

IMHO it's neither the Shikai, nor the Bankai, but instead just the materialization... like Zangetsu is the old man, and Zabimaru is this monkey.

I think we already discussed this a lot, before the forum was hacked.
However, I can argue that besides for when Ichigo was trying to achieve Bankai, Zangetsu was never physically materialized in this world. He was "there", but only Ichigo could see him. I doubt he could physically interact with the world around him either. I suspect, the same thing goes for Zabimaru. Again, this is a theory, and I'm in no way trying to pass this off as fact.

However, Minatsuki is obviously a materialization of a physical being. Unohana and Isane were riding on top of it, it held people inside of its belly and when it landed, it's feet/claws tore up the ground a little. I mean, we can't say for sure that Zangetsu and Zabimaru could not interact with the world around them, but the fact remains that Zangetsu "walked" right past Kenpachi without him knowing a thing. That materialization of Zangetsu, and of Zabimaru, seems to be an indication that the Shinigami who own them (them being the Zanpakutou) possess enough strength/spiritual power/whatever to achieve Bankai. That was what my impression of Zabimaru and Zangetsu appearing meant. Again, this is my theory, nothing more, nothing less.

Edit Add-On: I forget to mention that when Unohana recalled Minatsuki, it turned into something like a mist and drifted towards Unohana's sheath, before returning to the form of a Zanpakutou. If you recall when Zangetsu and Zabimaru materialized in the world, their physical Zanpakutous were still present while their representative appearances (old man and baboon) were there too. That...was hard to grasp. Okay...to put it easier...

Minatsuki = When it was around, Unohana's Zanpakutou wasn't
Zangetsu/Zabimaru = When they were around, Ichigo and Renji's Zanpakutous were still there

That leaves me to believe that Minatsuki is, at the very least, a Shikai. But that's just me. =p

eLcHaKeTeRo

2006-01-01, 09:59

........That leaves me to believe that Minatsuki is, at the very least, a Shikai. But that's just me...... =p

i agree......
-EDIT-
.........but the fact remains that Zangetsu "walked" right past Kenpachi without him knowing a thing........

but is it possible that Kenpachi didnt see Zangetsu because he cant even comunicate or (coulnt remains to be seen) with his Zanpakutou?......

Dark`

2006-01-01, 10:09

Well, at this time, Ichigo still hadn't achieved the necessary level, to materialize Zangetsu. Before the Bankai training Yoruichi explained, that before reaching Bankai you have to reach the stage, in which you can physically materialize your Zanpakutou. Ichigo skipped learning this stage by using the artifact, Yoruichi brought along.
Okay, fair enough. That much I can concede. But you failed to acknowledge the addition I made to my post.

Edit Add-On: I forget to mention that when Unohana recalled Minatsuki, it turned into something like a mist and drifted towards Unohana's sheath, before returning to the form of a Zanpakutou. If you recall when Zangetsu and Zabimaru materialized in the world, their physical Zanpakutous were still present while their representative appearances (old man and baboon) were there too. That...was hard to grasp. Okay...to put it easier...

Minatsuki = When it was around, Unohana's Zanpakutou wasn't
Zangetsu/Zabimaru = When they were around, Ichigo and Renji's Zanpakutous were still there

That leaves me to believe that Minatsuki is, at the very least, a Shikai. But that's just me. =p
Every materialization (Komamura's Bankai, Zangetsu during the Ichigo/Kenpachi fight, Zabimaru, etc) that has ever occurred, the Zanpakutous themselves have stayed, physically, in the form of a sword. The Zanpakutou never actually became the materialized form: Zabimaru, or Zangetsu, or anything. However, the Zanpakutou became Minatsuki (meaning the Zanpakutou was no longer in the shape of a sword). Like I said, this is primarily why I believe it's Unohana's Shikai, and not a simple materialization.

Grees

2006-01-01, 14:45

Im not convince of the materialization theory either, but if it is true, why does all these shinigami's wasting their time fighting each other?
Really, wouldnt it be much, much more easier to let their ZanMa's (Zanpakutou Materializations) fighting each other to determine who is stronger then who? I even though up a system where these ZanMa's can be stored in these ingenious balls which fit nicely into your pocket and can be use whenever, shinigami's just have to call out some phase like 'I select you .blabla..' and the fight is on. All the shinigami's can then stand on the sideline and cheer/wave/eat/sleep, while their PokZanMa's (the name just hit me, its obvious yet subtle) do all the fighting and dying. Really.

eLcHaKeTeRo

2006-01-01, 14:51

Souryu

2006-01-01, 14:54

I'm talking about the NAME of the zanpakutoh, not the the phrase they use to use the shikai. The name of Byakuya's zanpakutoh is Senbonzakura, not Scatter, Senbonzakura.

The only shikais that have 2 names are Shunsui's and Ukitake's and it's only because they are twin swords

heavenwargod

2006-01-27, 22:02

I think is a bankai because only bankais are a seperate entity!

@Souryu: Renji's Shikai is "Hoero ZUbimaru"
Byakuya's SHikai is "Chire senbonzakura"
Hinamori, Kira and others have Shikais with two names!

Lol...Every Zanpakuto have their own startup commands except for those who are skillful enough to change to Shikai form without command. (e.g Ichigo and Renji)
Hoero, translated from kanji, means Howl (I thought Zabimaru was a wolf before, but it is a baboon o.0)
Chire, means Scatter which Senbonzakura's blade literally scatters around lol:confused:

eLcHaKeTeRo

2006-01-28, 10:57

Lol...Every Zanpakuto have their own startup commands except for those who are skillful enough to change to Shikai form without command. (e.g Ichigo and Renji)
Hoero, translated from kanji, means Howl (I thought Zabimaru was a wolf before, but it is a baboon o.0)
Chire, means Scatter which Senbonzakura's blade literally scatters around lol:confused:

i have never seen renji summon his shikai with out calling out his zanpakutou's name and start up command. The Only one I have seen do that is Ichigo, and his sword is always in shikai form due to the size of his enormous reiatsu.

I'm talking about the NAME of the zanpakutoh, not the the phrase they use to use the shikai. The name of Byakuya's zanpakutoh is Senbonzakura, not Scatter, Senbonzakura.

The only shikais that have 2 names are Shunsui's and Ukitake's and it's only because they are twin swords

and that is not the name of his zanpakutou, that is the name of his shikai if im not mistaken.

Spectrum

2006-01-28, 13:40

i have never seen renji summon his shikai with out calling out his zanpakutou's name and start up command. The Only one I have seen do that is Ichigo, and his sword is always in shikai form due to the size of his enormous reiatsu.
During Renji's last fight with Byakuya, where he reveals Bankai, he releases Zabimaru without having to use the activation phrase in order to stop Byakuya's Shikai. (Remember? He attacks Byakuya with the extended Zabimaru in order to force him to abort his Shikai to parry.)

Souryu

2006-01-28, 14:50

i have never seen renji summon his shikai with out calling out his zanpakutou's name and start up command. The Only one I have seen do that is Ichigo, and his sword is always in shikai form due to the size of his enormous reiatsu.

and that is not the name of his zanpakutou, that is the name of his shikai if im not mistaken.

... name of the shikai = name of the zanpakutoh. And, if this is only the name of the shikai, what's the name of the zanpakutoh then?

Have a sword name "Scatter, Senbonzakura" is like somebody having the name of "Go, Mike!". Uber ridiculous :heh:

horsdhaleine

2006-08-20, 13:22

I think is a bankai because only bankais are a seperate entity!

@Souryu: Renji's Shikai is "Hoero ZUbimaru"
Byakuya's SHikai is "Chire senbonzakura"
Hinamori, Kira and others have Shikais with two names!

hoero, chire, et cetera are the commands. informal imperative form of japanese verbs. :)

i want to see unohana's bankai... it must be cute

fizzmaister

2006-08-22, 00:34

During Renji's last fight with Byakuya, where he reveals Bankai, he releases Zabimaru without having to use the activation phrase in order to stop Byakuya's Shikai. (Remember? He attacks Byakuya with the extended Zabimaru in order to force him to abort his Shikai to parry.)

however, that has something to do with Renji reaching Bankai, Byakuya started talking about how that meant that Renji could reach Bankai after he had to parry.

Shigemichi Take

2006-08-22, 01:41

[Rule 3)The name of the Bankai is an extension of

the normal name]

Examples of name extensions when using Bankai:

Byakuya:Seponzakura to Seponzakura Kageyoshi
Abarai Renji: Zabimaru to Hihou Zabimaru

I agree to this because usually, when one calls out
Bankai then name extends.

[Rule 2)The zanpakuto will change form into
something which will stay until the owner wishes it
to go away or can't sustain it ]

Examples of Zanpakutou shifting in sizes:

Abarai Renji's Zabimaru turning into a whip-like
serpent and a skull on his arm.

Ichigo's Zanpakutou shifts in sizes when he calls out
Bankai from Zangetsu and in a result, his Zanpakutou
turns black and turns
smaller dramatically.
I agree this that the shape of the Zanpakutou when
one calls out Bankai.

fizzmaister

2006-08-22, 15:41

I think it is her Bankai. We haven't seen a shikai that can make a manifestation. We didn't see her call it out, we also didn't see anyone else call back a bankai, calling the swords name and saying something is a possible way to seal a zanpakto.

Zek

2006-08-22, 17:16

Unohana is one of the more experienced captains, there's no way that her bankai just stores people and heals mild wounds. Also, there's no rule that says a shikai can't be a separate entity - it's not that different from Hitsugaya's ice dragon. Also considering the Golden Rule, I think that's enough to rule it out as her bankai until we get more information.

NoSanninWa

2006-08-23, 01:26

The Golden Rule doesn't apply in this case. We don't know if she calls out any name when she manifests that form. If you'll think back, you'll realize taht we've never seen her manifest it. We've only seen it after it was manifested.

Therefore the Golden Rule cannot allow us to rule it out as a bankai.

Lotiman

2006-08-23, 10:52

There should be another type of Bankai :-)

The one that change outfit (Ichigo, Renji)
The one that keep the same outfit (Byakuya, Tousen, etc)

fizzmaister

2006-08-23, 19:49

Unohana is one of the more experienced captains, there's no way that her bankai just stores people and heals mild wounds.

however, she is 4th squad. And remember it is always much easier to destroy than to repair, it is quite possible that it takes a bankai to do some minor healing. Also, she can take people on the brink of death and basically heal ther minor wounds and put them in a stasis so their bad wounds don't kill them on the way to 4th squad HQ.

Hitsugaya_Titzen

2006-12-29, 03:41

Yah i think the ability of how the person uses it changes their ability of bankai.