View Full Version : Ichigo's Bankai Chain...
ScytheBlade
2005-12-20, 00:02
Hey fellow members. I came about this theory on Ichigo's bankai. When he turns his sword into Bankai mode there is a chain on the handle. You can also evidently hear the chain rattle when he uses his sword's ability. Now, when Ichigo becomes Hollow Ichigo that chain is gone. You cannot even hear it. I think that chain resembles Ichigo almost turning into a Hollow during Urahara's training. You can see that the chain was ALMOST eaten away and he turned halfway into a Hollow but he still has Death God clothes. What I think was that when he is in normal Bankai form the chain is still there resembling he is a NOT a Hollow because Hollows do not have the soul link. But when he turns into Hollow Ichigo the chain is gone because he is a Hollow. This is just my theory about that chain in his Bankai and don't start a flame war because of it. :D
Actually IIRC, his chain was totally eaten away, which precipitated his change. On the chain being gone in hollow mode, I'll have to go check on that. It'll give me an excuse to watch that episode again!
The chain is still there before his hollow half takes control, however the chain does disappear after it happens and it does come back after that.
leetsauce
2005-12-20, 05:16
The chain doesn't disappear when he's in Hollow mode.
http://tinypic.com/iw6t5u.jpg
You could clearly see the chain here.
Or maybe it only comes back when Ichigo is interfering, since there is absolutely no sign of a chain when he is in Hollow mode.
Edit: The chain does exist during his Hollow interference.
http://tinypic.com/iw6tdu.jpg
leet, in the second picture, that chain is hella short. Maybe it's just a animation error, but maybe it is a countdown. The mask was totally over his chin and getting into his hair at that point.
you know what i think..
next time ichigo powers up
he becomes a hollow, then the chain extends and pierces his chest, breaking his mask and bla bla bla what have you, giving him the hollow's power and total control over it.
D-Technolife
2005-12-23, 09:51
wow.... is the chain really that important!?!?!?!
The chain is there so Ichigo can have a place to attach his keys.
*Oh..where did i leave my house key?..Hmm..oh wait lets check the chain at the end of my sword.. ah there it is!*
ScytheBlade
2005-12-23, 16:15
wow.... is the chain really that important!?!?!?!
Yep, cause it looks and sounds so DAM COOL! And I'm wondering why we can't hear it when Hollow Ichigo is using the soul slayer.
wow.... is the chain really that important!?!?!?!
Don't you remember the explanation about the chain in the episode with Orihime's brother? Plus spirits have chains, and that's how you can tell them from hollows. If the chain of a Plus is removed, it becomes a hollow.
Friendless
2005-12-23, 20:23
Plus spirits have chains, and that's how you can tell them from hollows.
I always took them apart via human looking creatures and giant black things with a white mask.
You have to remember back to one of the primary episodes when Urahara was training Ichigo. Think back to when he threw him into that hole and told him he has X amount of hours to climb out before his chains were eaten and he was turned into a hollow.
Urahara did that on purpose because he knew the potential of Ichigo and knew that if he combined the shinigami powers with the hollow powers he was become a cross breed of what Aizen is now trying to become and create himself. Needless to say Ichigo doesnt like his hollow alter ego but no one can deny the fact that it increases his speed, strength, and power level considerably.
Friendless
2005-12-23, 21:38
Urahara did that on purpose because he knew the potential of Ichigo and knew that if he combined the shinigami powers with the hollow powers he was become a cross breed of what Aizen is now trying to become and create himself. Needless to say Ichigo doesnt like his hollow alter ego but no one can deny the fact that it increases his speed, strength, and power level considerably.
You're saying that that's a fact... which is not... We have no information to prove this. First that he did it on purpose... how would uraharhaha purposly make ichigo figure out how to re-turn to a shinigami EXACTLY in time to become half-hollow... Also, we have no fact that this was the CAUSE that made ichigo a half hollow even though it its probley the biggest guess, other than the effect it may of had something to do with the thing-i-magiger that was inside rukia's soul (doubtful cause it was sealed). I however CAN deny the fact that it increases his speed, strength, and power level considerably. As far as I seen ichigo was born with an already CONSIDERABLY high spirit power... however he doesn't know how to use it, and lacks the ability to fully use it to this point cause it was too much for himself. The hollow as far as I know just allows ichigo to ascend past the limits (Like said by aizen) and also knows how to use ichigos power already inside of him which is what ichigo is currently lacking. Not to mention the hollow wants complete control over the body also...
You have to remember back to one of the primary episodes when Urahara was training Ichigo. Think back to when he threw him into that hole and told him he has X amount of hours to climb out before his chains were eaten and he was turned into a hollow.
Urahara did that on purpose because he knew the potential of Ichigo and knew that if he combined the shinigami powers with the hollow powers he was become a cross breed of what Aizen is now trying to become and create himself. Needless to say Ichigo doesnt like his hollow alter ego but no one can deny the fact that it increases his speed, strength, and power level considerably.
I don't believe Urahara was trying to create a hybrid, but he was definitely aware of the possibility, and obviously didn't feel the need to stop it.
On the chain, Maybe we'll get an explanation on that sometime in the future. Possibly if Ichigo goes hollow, and Isshin and Urahara turn up! That'd be interesting... Or maybe the Vaizards have chained bankai's as well? So many possibilities!
Put A & B together and you have C. Episode 19 is the one Im referring to by the way. Even the Title says "Ichigo Becomes a Hollow".
What reason can you come up with for Urahara throwing Ichigo into the hole other than to end in the resulting transformation or even taking the chance of it happening?
How does Ichigo almost go from on the brink of death with no spirit power left to toying with Byakuya after having the hollow take over? The hollow gave a boost Ichigo's power just as Zanpaku-to changing to Shikai and Bankai increased his power.
Ichigo reached his limit for the present time when he battled Byakuya with the bankai in full effect. Urahara's creation inside Rukia had no effect on Ichigo simply because he didnt have it in his possession let alone know how to use it.
More is speculated upon in the manga but this isnt the thread to go over that (^_^)
Friendless
2005-12-23, 22:23
Uraharha probley put him in the hole for a few different reasons... One being to give him something to struggle for...
How does Ichigo almost go from on the brink of death with no spirit power left to toying with Byakuya after having the hollow take over?
Ichigo wasn't once on the brink of death unless you mean by the chance of the Uraharha's companions about to slay/contain him... Ichigo was just turning into a hollow. The reason ichigo DIDN'T become the hollow is cause his mind had the will to struggle so much... Doing so also gave him the ability to find his power that was locked in the back of his mind like his subconciousness thus giving him the power to become his OWN shinigami
My guess is that on say the fight with zenpachi he had the will power to not die and find more of his power that was hidden in his subconciousness thus learning more in the back of his subconciousness as they illustrate with learning more from whatever ichigos ' soul slayers ' name is...
I always took them apart via human looking creatures and giant black things with a white mask.
Well, OK, I should have said that not having a chain is one of the two main differences. The mask and the chain. Those are the key differences. They aren't the only ways you can tell, but they are the only important differences.
Ichigo wasn't once on the brink of death unless you mean by the chance of the Uraharha's companions about to slay/contain him... Ichigo was just turning into a hollow. The reason ichigo DIDN'T become the hollow is cause his mind had the will to struggle so much... Doing so also gave him the ability to find his power that was locked in the back of his mind like his subconciousness thus giving him the power to become his OWN shinigami
My guess is that on say the fight with zenpachi he had the will power to not die and find more of his power that was hidden in his subconciousness thus learning more in the back of his subconciousness as they illustrate with learning more from whatever ichigos ' soul slayers ' name is...
Did you not read the question at all? Benoeb was specifically asking about the fight between Ichigo and Kuchika Byakuya in which we first saw Tensa Zangetsu. No other fight, including that between Ichigo and Kenpachi, is relevant to that question...
If you don't think that Ichigo in masked form has more speed, strength, and reiatsu than regular Ichigo, then I would say that you are just blinding yourself to the obvious.
forbidden1four56
2005-12-23, 23:39
If you don't think that Ichigo in masked form has more speed, strength, and reiatsu than regular Ichigo, then I would say that you are just blinding yourself to the obvious.
I agree that hollow ichigo is most likely superior to ichigo, just from the small fight, if u can call that a fight, with Byuyaka whatever he seemed to have more experience and better control of the power. Also it didn't seem as if hollow ichigo was even fighting seriously, like ichigo. But maybe its less that he has more power, he probably does, and more that he has better control and can handle the power better than ichigo can.
Also it didn't seem as if hollow ichigo wasn't even fighting seriously, like ichigo. But maybe its less that he has more power, he probably does, and more that he has better control and can handle the power better than ichigo can.
Friendless
2005-12-24, 00:39
Did you not read the question at all?
I read it, just read it wrong. :)
I read it, just read it wrong. :)
Well, that's fair enough, then. :)
What's your opinion now you understand the question? I think it's fairly clear that Ichigo started doing a lot better in that fight in his "masked" form. Wouldn't you agree that it allows him to access a level of power he is unable to tap into otherwise?
I loved that line where Byakuya said "I won't ask what that form was." I'm not sure if Byakuya was being polite, or whether he was afraid of the answer...
It's possible that he already know what a Vaizard is, but it seems unlikely to me. He seemed fairly shocked by the transformation. Of course, even if you know about Vaizard Shinigami, you don't necessarily expect to encounter one...
Also it didn't seem as if hollow ichigo wasn't even fighting seriously, like ichigo. But maybe its less that he has more power, he probably does, and more that he has better control and can handle the power better than ichigo can.
Yes, I agree. I feel like I should tell you that you can edit your own posts, once you have made them... there's no need for a triple post. :)
You should consider PMing a moderator to get those posts merged.
ScytheBlade
2005-12-24, 02:15
During the fight with Kenpachi, Ichigo was charging up for the final attack. If you look at the shape of his aura, it was the hollow mask shape. You can discern the image if you look closely enough.
D-Technolife
2005-12-24, 09:03
man... i wonder when will bleach end!?!?!? i hope not so soon!!!
I always took them apart via human looking creatures and giant black things with a white mask.
And the humans cosplaying as Hollows? :confused:
Calaquan
2005-12-31, 01:40
Well, OK, I should have said that not having a chain is one of the two main differences. The mask and the chain. Those are the key differences. They aren't the only ways you can tell, but they are the only important differences.
No, live people have a "chain". The chain is what connects a spirit to it's body. That chain is severed by dying. Also, if you can somehow severe the chain, a person dies. (Or something similar to that, I remember when Renji and Byakuya came for Rukia, and after the fight with Ishigo, there was something said about Byakuya severing Ichigo's spirit chain)
If you remember the first episode of Bleach, the girl's spirit (the one who's flowers where knocked over) didn't have a chain either.
eLcHaKeTeRo
2005-12-31, 05:00
Do you guys remember when Ichigo had to fight to get Zangetsu back from himself ?.........that was his hollow form right ?.......and more importantly didnt he say to teach him well because one day Ichigo's power would become his?.......and the mask that always saved ichigo's ass......there alot of stuff flying under the radar here...like all those other shinigami/hollows that were failed experiments like the one that killed ichigo's mother and that guy that rukia liked that looks alot like ichigo.....i am having a sensory overload here.....i was reading the raw manga and theres alot of interesting stuff.....i dont think that bleach will end anytime soon, i hope!.....i would also like to add that u guys are very avid watchers of bleach...i never noticed that there was no chain on the zanpakutou when he turns into the shinigami hybrid....and i think that shape when he was fighting kenpachi was zangetsu's profile, but i could be mistaken
If you remember the first episode of Bleach, the girl's spirit (the one who's flowers where knocked over) didn't have a chain either.
I believe she actually did have a chain, just that it was severed. Not gone, just hanging loose, like Ichigo's was in the shattered shaft.
At the post above, I'm fairly sure that was his hollow mask behind him, and Kenpachi had a giant skull behind him. IIRC.
eLcHaKeTeRo
2006-01-01, 10:06
At the post above, I'm fairly sure that was his hollow mask behind him, and Kenpachi had a giant skull behind him. IIRC.
......im goin to watch again......i want to see for my self......who wouldnt want to see that badass episode again anyway?
The only reason for the chain being connected to the sword is because of the name. "Tensa Zangetsu" stands for "Heavenly Chains Moon Cutter." There is no secret meaning behind it, just for the effect.
Cosmetic purposes. If anything, so ogihci can swing his sword like he does with the shikai. And yea, the name too.
The only reason for the chain being connected to the sword is because of the name. "Tensa Zangetsu" stands for "Heavenly Chains Moon Cutter." There is no secret meaning behind it, just for the effect.
Thats probably it.... I dun think it has anything to do with ichi's inner hollow since Hichi did have the chain on his tensa zangetsu during his fight with ichi in ichi's inner world.....
Ichi became a shinigami the hard way i.e. soul chain cut off yadda yadda . So I can speculate its a representation of his Broken Soul Chain . Also Ichi is a Vizard or maybe something else
in fact i think the chain is important because i think that in several episodes the one where he fights renji and kuchiki for the first time in the human where they came to take back rukia they refer to someone as "him" kuchiki said "he does resemble him" i think they "him" is either some legendary soul reaper or something or my theory is he is a soul reaper that they expertimented with and he became a bounto and his hollow side is his doll. and thats y he can sense other spirits. but thats just my theory.
ichigoismyhomie
2007-07-11, 02:54
after reading all these hypotheses about the chain i come to one conclusion
mystery of the chain..:twitch: (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pwt2Z3llAr0)
Do your chain hang low
Do it wobble to the flo'
Do it shine in the light
Is it platinum, Is it gold
Could you throw it over ya shoulda
If ya hot, it make ya cold
Do your chain hang low
black monster
2007-07-11, 16:27
in fact i think the chain is important because i think that in several episodes the one where he fights renji and kuchiki for the first time in the human where they came to take back rukia they refer to someone as "him" kuchiki said "he does resemble him" i think they "him" is either some legendary soul reaper or something or my theory is he is a soul reaper that they expertimented with and he became a bounto and his hollow side is his doll. and thats y he can sense other spirits. but thats just my theory.
when byakuya said "he does resemble him" the him referse to Kaien Shiba
In terms of appearance, and in some cases, personality, Kaien had an uncanny resemblance to the series' protagonist, Ichigo Kurosaki. Kaien's hair is spiky, long in the back, and black. He dresses in the garb typical of shinigami, without any alterations, with his lieutenant badge around his left arm. Kaien also has a tattoo of the Shiba clan symbol on the same arm.
here is the prof http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaien_Shiba
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