[Mai Otome] Episode 12 Discussion/Poll [Archive]

Catgirls

2005-12-20, 00:03

Welcome to this week's Episode discussion thread.

I'll post a new Episode discussion thread every Tuesday (a few days before the show actually airs). Please do not vote in the poll until you have watched the episode. If pre-voting gets out of hand, then I'll open the Episode threads on Thursday or Friday instead.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
NO Manga spoilers in the Episode thread. Please alert a Moderator if you see Manga spoilers. Use the http://forums.animesuki.com/images/buttons/report.gif button you see below each users name.

Keep it on-topic and discuss the episode at hand.
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members. Rudeness will lead to impotency.

Be aware that due to the very nature of these threads, current episode content will be discussed without the use of Spoiler tags. Also, since these threads go up early, unrestrained speculation about the upcoming episode will be knee-deep. If you haven't seen the Episode, I would advise you not to click into the thread prior to the Fan-sub release, or don't complain if you're spoiled.

Please remember that only moderators can start the episode discussion threads every week.

Poll

The poll is fairly self explanatory:

(*) = Poor, (**) = Below Average, (***) = Average, (****) = Above Average, (*****) = Excellent!

KiraDouji

2005-12-20, 00:14

Oh! First! *dance*

I can't wait to see Arika in a dress! I don't know what it is, but both she and Nina look so pretty with their hair down! *gush* There's so many theories spinning around about Akira and Takumi, too... I just want the ep so we can find out which ones were right *_*

So, what's the guesses? Why's Arika in a gown??

- Kira

LonelyWolf

2005-12-20, 00:23

Why did Sergey send her that dress? Did he know what was going to happen? I wonder...

KiraDouji

2005-12-20, 00:26

I was kind of wondering myself. On the one hand, I can totally seeing him mailing that just because he wanted to. It seemed like that box was trying to make up for all 14/15 years of crap birthdays and shite, so I could easilly see him throwing that in as a sort of "she needs a dress". On the other hand, he's a political figure, I'd say there's a substantial chance that he knew about this visit.

I'm pretty 50/50 at the moment.

- Kira

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-20, 00:28

Why did Sergey send her that dress? Did he know what was going to happen? I wonder...
Well, as Otomes in training they are expected to attend important functions as work-experience. Now that Arika jumped 29 places from 51, she is 22th place and high enough to be potential Pearl next year.

Arika didn't have any formal-wear, so Sergay was just being obervant... And also because Sunrise has been reading their "Daddy long legs" novel, and noticed how benefactors always spoil their charges.

LonelyWolf

2005-12-20, 00:30

LonelyWolf

2005-12-20, 00:32

Well, as Otomes in training they are expected to attend important functions as work-experience. Now that Arika jumped 29 places from 51, she is 22th place and high enough to be potential Pearl next year.

Arika didn't have any formal-wear, so Sergay was just being obervant... And also because Sunrise has been reading their "Daddy long legs" novel, and noticed how benefactors always spoil their charges.

Niiiice one! I'm totally buying it, yes. We shouldn't always think there's an ulterior motive for certain things happening.

PuRpLe CryStaL

2005-12-20, 00:34

I can't wait to see the screenshots by Omni :D Arika was asked to disguise as the Queen for the marriage interview and what about Nina? Did the previews for Episode 12 show what will Nina be doing for this week? I agree that Nina looks great with her hair down. In fact I would prefer she don't tie her hair :p Imagine Arika has to dance with Akira and Arika will end up stepping onto Akira's feet (like what she did to Irina during her exams) all the time :D Sergey bought Arika a dress perhaps he find our Antsy very tomboyish and needed a dress for a change :confused: I wonder will Sergey find out abt Arika taking the place of Mashiro for her bday celebration with Akira. That would be fun :heh:

USCPharmacist

2005-12-20, 00:36

did she jump 29 places or is she the 29th place? I am kind of confuse.

Anyway I don't know who's bright idea was to use Arika as the replacement as she doesn't even have the same hair color as Mashiro. Let's forget all those posters of the queen in the street, let say the prince actually is interested in "Mashiro", are they gonna force Arika to marry him? lol What if he found out that was a fraud? It could start war man!:heh:

If I were them, I'll try to get Manshiro from the manga to help out instead, I mean ZOMG he fooled Nagi:heh: :heh:

PuRpLe CryStaL

2005-12-20, 00:41

Nah. Arika was number 51 when she first joined the academy. But after the results for her recent exams were released, she was ranked 29th in position. That's a great jump!

Let me see :-\ it could be Aoi who suggested getting Arika to replace Mashiro as the matter of fact, Arika appears to be the one who gets along with Mashiro & is likely to help the Queen out :p

kazekiri

2005-12-20, 00:45

Anyway I don't know who's bright idea was to use Arika as the replacement as she doesn't even have the same hair color as Mashiro.Possibly it's because Arika knows Mashiro better than anyone else they could have picked, even if she doesn't have a clue how to act like royalty. Alternatively, it could just be an excuse by Sunrise to stick her in a pink dress. As to the issue of all those Happy Birthday Mashiro! posters plastering the city, I think a lot of those are holographic and can just be turned off. Wouldn't want the guests to be suspicious now would we?

PastPrime

2005-12-20, 01:21

Possibly it's because Arika knows Mashiro better than anyone else they could have picked, even if she doesn't have a clue how to act like royalty.
Considering that Mashiro doesn't act like royalty either, that might be why they chose her.

lone_wolf

2005-12-20, 01:26

Considering that Mashiro doesn't act like royalty either, that might be why they chose her.

Perhaps...but they sure spoiled her rotten though. :heh:

--Lone Wolf 一匹狼

Preston

2005-12-20, 03:07

I agree that Nina looks great with her hair down. In fact I would prefer she don't tie her hair.

Dude, the hair is a psychological advantage! Its like wearing red, an advantage on the battlefield. :heh: Makes you seem more of a scary opponent in the mind of your assailant, even if they don't realize it consciously. I'd settle for this: when shes going to take people on and going to some formal occasion she can tie her hair up, otherwise, let it down. :D

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this episode, the preview didn't look too interesting. But I'm prepared to go into it with an open mind. After all, you can't take Sunrise's previews with anything less than a pinch of salt. I'll admit, neither Takumi nor Akira were my favourites in HiME, but its nice to see them back. I can't see Takumi doing anything 'bad', especially to a high ranking political figure such as Mashiro, his conscience would probably prevent him from doing so even if he tried. :heh: So, do people think that Akira is being one of those decoys, or has actually been brought up as a prince? Akira is Takumi's girl after all. :rolleyes: Must be time for someone to take some sort of beating, right? We are a little delayed on that front. Not that I don't like the way it is at the moment. Then again, episode 13 is just the perfect one for that..

Boy Adoru

2005-12-20, 04:46

Nah. Arika was number 51 when she first joined the academy. But after the results for her recent exams were released, she was ranked 29th in position. That's a great jump!

The Doremi translation says she rose by 29 places, which would make her 22nd in ranking (up from 51). This also would ensure her survival to the Pearl class, as half of the Corals are eliminated after the first year. Not that I believe the plot will lead us into the second year...

Befgrek

2005-12-20, 05:59

The Doremi translation says she rose by 29 places, which would make her 22nd in ranking (up from 51). This also would ensure her survival to the Pearl class, as half of the Corals are eliminated after the first year. Not that I believe the plot will lead us into the second year...

Well, my japanese is far from perfect, but to me, it sounds as if they first say something like: "But isn't it great? Arika instantly rose up to the twenties!" and then Irina says (After Arika has shown some poor dining manners by talking with food in her mouth...) "really... why did she become number 29 again?"

Tempest35

2005-12-20, 06:52

Y'know, I wouldn't put it past Nina to 'force' Arika to do the whole stand-in thing. Payback for earlier when she said not to mention anything to Sergey and then Arika blurts out that they were looking for the pocketwatch the entire time? ^^b

exslayer

2005-12-20, 11:15

aren't there like pictures of mashiro everywhere so i'm wondering how can they go through town without seeing one of these

Kieli

2005-12-20, 12:53

Well, my japanese is far from perfect, but to me, it sounds as if they first say something like: "But isn't it great? Arika instantly rose up to the twenties!" and then Irina says (After Arika has shown some poor dining manners by talking with food in her mouth...) "really... why did she become number 29 again?"
We really need Mentar's summaries to know for sure. I'm confused about this as well. My limited translation was that she went up 29 levels to be ranked at 22. But since there are conflicting translations, we need a native speaker to clarify. Lone Wolf, HELP!

lone_wolf

2005-12-20, 13:07

We really need Mentar's summaries to know for sure. I'm confused about this as well. My limited translation was that she went up 29 levels to be ranked at 22. But since there are conflicting translations, we need a native speaker to clarify. Lone Wolf, HELP!

I'm at work right now but when I get home, I'll watch that episode and clearify. Sorry I can't do this sooner as I don't have the episode on me.:heh:

--Lone Wolf

Maceart

2005-12-20, 21:03

I hope some things get revealed about Takumi and Akira this episode... hope Takumi isn't another spineless guy with a heart problem.

ranchan13

2005-12-20, 22:26

I've seen a couple pictures of Akira in her Otome outfit, so I'm guessing she is indeed Takumi's Otomoe, and not Mai, which still leaves her as a Pillar

lone_wolf

2005-12-20, 22:53

We really need Mentar's summaries to know for sure. I'm confused about this as well. My limited translation was that she went up 29 levels to be ranked at 22. But since there are conflicting translations, we need a native speaker to clarify. Lone Wolf, HELP!

Kieli,

Got home 10 minutes ago from work, and finally rewatched that part of the episode. From the sound of it, she *placed* 29th.

--Lone Wolf

coefficientX

2005-12-20, 22:59

We really need Mentar's summaries to know for sure. I'm confused about this as well. My limited translation was that she went up 29 levels to be ranked at 22. But since there are conflicting translations, we need a native speaker to clarify. Lone Wolf, HELP!
From the Chinese fansub i watched, she is at no.29 too.
Most of the time, Chinese fansub are alot more accurate than English fansub. Mostly it is because Japanese uses Chinese kanji to represent lots of things. But i hafta pause screen alot to read the subs. :heh:

And i agree with Lone Wolf, from the sound of it, she is placed 29th.

*eagerly waiting for Mentar's full review too*

kazekiri

2005-12-20, 23:13

I've seen a couple pictures of Akira in her Otome outfit, so I'm guessing she is indeed Takumi's Otomoe, and not Mai, which still leaves her as a PillarWhere can I find those?

lone_wolf

2005-12-20, 23:18

From the Chinese fansub i watched, she is at no.29 too.
Most of the time, Chinese fansub are alot more accurate than English fansub. Mostly it is because Japanese uses Chinese kanji to represent lots of things. But i hafta pause screen alot to read the subs. :heh:

And i agree with Lone Wolf, from the sound of it, she is placed 29th.

*eagerly waiting for Mentar's full review too*

In the meantime:

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/975/natsukihugshizuru6yv.th.jpg (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=natsukihugshizuru6yv.jpg)

Our embarrassed Natsuki is back :heh:

--Lone Wolf

Kieli

2005-12-20, 23:28

Kieli,

Got home 10 minutes ago from work, and finally rewatched that part of the episode. From the sound of it, she *placed* 29th.

--Lone Wolf
Thank you, Lone-san :bow:

lone_wolf

2005-12-20, 23:32

Thank you, Lone-san :bow:

No prob:)

I'm trying to translate the the stuff from the image I posted above but the text is so small for my visually impaired eyes. I'm gonna need to buy this magazine.:heh:

I'll see what I can make of it later though..my eyes are starting to water:heh:

--Lone Wolf

Akuma-sama

2005-12-21, 00:16

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/975/natsukihugshizuru6yv.th.jpg (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=natsukihugshizuru6yv.jpg)

Hn... dunno, Shizuru's face looks wierd. And Chie's. Dun't like the pic much, despite the embarassed Natsuki hugginess factor.
Besides, the speech preview to episode 4 (or 11!) were much better at having Shizuru embarassing Natsuki... :p

coefficientX

2005-12-21, 00:40

ZOMG LONE WOLF!!!!1 That pic!!!!!!!!!!!!! *drools*
translate it pweeeeeeeease! :heh:

Although both Natsuki & Shizuru don't look like official art. :(

lone_wolf

2005-12-21, 00:58

ZOMG LONE WOLF!!!!1 That pic!!!!!!!!!!!!! *drools*
translate it pweeeeeeeease! :heh:

Although both Natsuki & Shizuru don't look like official art. :(

Ugh....I'm gonna have to buy the magazine at Kinokuniya first before I attempt anything. The text on the bottom is hurting my eyes.:heh:

Unfortunately the only thing that looks a bit clear to me is the text under Arika and Shizuru:

"...ｱﾘｶのことおいつもかわいかつていろシズルたが" (If this is what I'm seeing...everything looks smudgy)

Which is basically pointing out how Arika always admires Shizuru.

As for the artwork itself...it was most likely done by one of the animation staff. It's likely that we'll see it in the Mai Otome Online museum very soon.

--Lone Wolf

ranchan13

2005-12-21, 01:04

Where can I find those?
Here ya go

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/ranchan13/1135123436963.jpg

Even though it does look more like fanart

SuperKnuckles

2005-12-21, 01:09

^

Reminds me of Maruto's stuff:

(some pictures not exactly work-safe)

http://www.exyc.bias.ne.jp/~maruto/

lone_wolf

2005-12-21, 01:11

Here ya go

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/ranchan13/1135123436963.jpg

Even though it does look more like fanart\

Yeah, this is from Maruto's site, This artist specializes in doujin art. In fact, one of the Mai Hime manga anthologies, contains some of Maruto's work.

Like in "Mai Hime: First Attack" Anthology comic...just bought that the other day from Kinokuniya bookstore.

--Lone Wolf

mintyfresh

2005-12-21, 01:59

Here ya go

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/ranchan13/1135123436963.jpg

Even though it does look more like fanart
Yeah, that's a pic from Maruto's website. I'm pretty sure of it.... especially considering the fact that his signature is on the picture.. ^^;;

I'm personally not quite sure why people think Akira's an Otome in the first place, though (besides from being misguided from that pic, that is..). She's entirely too young to be working already. If ANYTHING, she'd have to be a drop out or something..

Besides, it's a lot more likely that Mai is the Otome for Takumi's country. ^^;

Sakuya

2005-12-21, 02:40

That looks wrong, somehow. :eyespin:

piccolo

2005-12-21, 02:40

From the Chinese fansub i watched, she is at no.29 too.
Most of the time, Chinese fansub are alot more accurate than English fansub. Mostly it is because Japanese uses Chinese kanji to represent lots of things. But i hafta pause screen alot to read the subs. :heh:

And i agree with Lone Wolf, from the sound of it, she is placed 29th.
There are other fansubs that I searched several weeks ago. I don't know their sources but ALL stated that Arika's position is 29th, one above Erstin who is 30th.

Maceart

2005-12-21, 03:13

Oops. We were two places off. "Jump 20 places or so in the ranking". That would make Arika 31st.

A mistaek, eh...

ladholyman

2005-12-21, 03:17

You know, sometimes when you type very fast, and when the QC people are hounding over commas and typos, I miss the little stuff.

The line should correctly read, "It's a wonder how she rose to 29th place."

Please don't kill me.

Shigan

2005-12-21, 04:16

In the meantime:

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/975/natsukihugshizuru6yv.th.jpg (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=natsukihugshizuru6yv.jpg)

Our embarrassed Natsuki is back :heh:

--Lone Wolf

BANZAI LONEWOLF, BAAANZAAAAIIIII!!!

Althou I am a bit scared, was someone listening in on our FF8 metaphor discussion? O_o

Althou, Shizuru's expression looks wrong somehow...

coefficientX

2005-12-21, 05:40

Althou, Shizuru's expression looks wrong somehow...
*vigorously nodding*

Yeah i think so too... Somehow its not the pretty Shizuru that i always see. :p

SpeedRcrX

2005-12-21, 05:58

In the meantime:

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/975/natsukihugshizuru6yv.th.jpg (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=natsukihugshizuru6yv.jpg)

Our embarrassed Natsuki is back :heh:

--Lone Wolf

Thanks so much for this scan I love it, especially embarrassed Natsuki , Shizuru seems more than please about this situation though :D

sei

2005-12-21, 06:28

In the meantime:

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/975/natsukihugshizuru6yv.th.jpg (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=natsukihugshizuru6yv.jpg)

Our embarrassed Natsuki is back :heh:

--Lone Wolf

Natsuki is still the queen of funny facial expressions.
May i know which magazine is that pic from?

JayF

2005-12-21, 10:52

BANZAI LONEWOLF, BAAANZAAAAIIIII!!!

Althou I am a bit scared, was someone listening in on our FF8 metaphor discussion? O_o

Althou, Shizuru's expression looks wrong somehow...

Shizuru look's like she's high on something.

Someone slipped something into her tea I suppose*coughnatsukitealeafpantiescough*

lone_wolf

2005-12-21, 11:26

Thanks so much for this scan I love it, especially embarrassed Natsuki , Shizuru seems more than please about this situation though :D

Yes, she most certainly does.:heh:

--Lone Wolf

lone_wolf

2005-12-21, 11:27

Natsuki is still the queen of funny facial expressions.
May i know which magazine is that pic from?

I think it's from Animedia....I'll have to double check this week since I plan to search for it at the bookstore.

--Lone Wolf

lone_wolf

2005-12-21, 11:28

Shizuru look's like she's high on something.

Someone slipped something into her tea I suppose*coughnatsukitealeafpantiescough*

LOL! You know, I think you're right.:heh: Her expression is a bit unusual.

--Lone Wolf

lone_wolf

2005-12-21, 11:29

BANZAI LONEWOLF, BAAANZAAAAIIIII!!!

Althou I am a bit scared, was someone listening in on our FF8 metaphor discussion? O_o

Althou, Shizuru's expression looks wrong somehow...

I get the funny impression that someone leaked our info to Sunrise as well.:heh:

--Lone Wolf

NaNash|

2005-12-21, 13:15

Mmmm, actually I dun think it make much difference Arika's ranking now. As long as she is not at the bottom.:)

*Puts up an anti-flame shield*

Well, I want to believe that Akira is Takumi's Otome. But if she's an Otome, wouldn't others realise it when she appear in front of them?

That leaves Mai as Takumi's Otome. But if that's the case, who is the person in shadow that appears with the Harmoni~~~(I forgot the spelling)? I think it should be Mikoto. Because of the "feel" of the character. The warrior-like look and the shape of the shadow makes me think that it is Mikoto.

lone_wolf

2005-12-21, 13:52

Natsuki is still the queen of funny facial expressions.
May i know which magazine is that pic from?

Okay, found out where the scan was from. It's from the "anicolle dragon magazine"

--Lone Wolf

Akuma-sama

2005-12-21, 14:12

I doubt Akira is an Otome; no earring.
Can Otomes remove their earrings?

Sorry for the short post, school waits for no one -_-

Winchester

2005-12-21, 14:23

Diodati

2005-12-21, 14:32

I doubt Akira is an Otome; no earring.
Can Otomes remove their earrings?
Well Miyu removed Arika's...or do you mean something different to that...

Perhaps an Otome-styled-ear-ring would 'give it away' that she's a girl, and hence why she doesn't wear one.

I would love for Akira to be an Otome, but I'm not sure, there are a lot of things even already to suggest that she's not. The 'age' is the biggest problem, and here I was hoping for a 20 something Pillar Akira. I didn't quite get that, oh well, at least she's not a boy.

But hopefully we won't be in the dark too long about her intentions - Akira was probably my second/third fave HiME, so I'm one of the definite people who's really craving for the next episode. :)

PS I like the embarassed Natsuki pic, even with the rather crazy-looking Shizuru. Very entertaining...

Akuma-sama

2005-12-21, 15:07

At school right now;

If Takumi is the prince and Mai is both his older sister and his Otome, and if their MH dynamics haven't changed, I think we're going to see another case of a ruler and his/her otome acting very much out of their roles :heh:

The interesting part is that if Takumi is here, then Mai isn't very far away. Meaning, the much awaited meeting between Natsuki and 'that woman' is coming... :D
Maybe at the end of this episode?

And someone seems to have voted already... :eyebrow:

lone_wolf

2005-12-21, 15:13

And someone seems to have voted already... :eyebrow:

Voted????:confused: :confused:

LOL...and the episode hasn't even aired yet....interesting.:heh:

--Lone Wolf

Mysticmidnightmaiden

2005-12-21, 16:38

W00t! Less than 20 hours 'till Mai-ZHiME airs!

(Yes, I know I have no life...:heh: )

On topic though, I more than ever feel that Mashiro is the true princess. It just seems too Mai-ish for Sunrise to pass up this plot twist. I have a feeling that Nagi will find Sir Pimpness Takumi and Mashiro-hime on their little date in the upcoming episode as well. Why? Just plain instinct, I suppose (And the fact that I'd love to see a jealous Nagi-kun squirm for a little). Finally, like many, I believe that a war will start soon. Nagi seems like a good guy in this universe, so I doubt that he'll betray everyone TOTALLY (save Sergay) before he unites with Yukino, Mashiro, and Takumi/Akira/Mai (hopefully) to stop the Big Bad Old Aristocrats/whoever else gets in their way.

On a side note, remember how in Mai-HiME, M.I.Y.U was the anti-materalizing force to stop the Obsidian Lord? The information in Episode 10 (that the Searrs guy stole from evil Midori-chan) could be some way to dematerailize the Otome Robes and Midori-tachi's G.E.M.s., leaving many of the countries powerless. The Searrs (or whatever country) Faction could then easily overpower the other countries and take over the world with their Otomes/Slaves/Weapons of Mass Destruction.
Either that or it's plans for a machine powerful enough to look at DNA (to end the "missing princess" plot).

Akuma-sama

2005-12-21, 19:03

Nagi seems like a good guy in this universe

*cough* where did you get THAT? I'll admit he's probably not the ultimate evil, but he's most likely playing it grey this time around too. He's *not* a good guy, the same way he wasn't a good guy in HiME.

On a side note, remember how in Mai-HiME, M.I.Y.U was the anti-materalizing force to stop the Obsidian Lord? The information in Episode 10 (that the Searrs guy stole from evil Midori-chan) could be some way to dematerailize the Otome Robes and Midori-tachi's G.E.M.s., leaving many of the countries powerless. The Searrs (or whatever country) Faction could then easily overpower the other countries and take over the world with their Otomes/Slaves/Weapons of Mass Destruction.
Either that or it's plans for a machine powerful enough to look at DNA (to end the "missing princess" plot).

I hadn't thought about that possibility... interesting idea :heh:

BTW: Your sig is... interesting, but a bit long...
And I think you meant "Kannin na" ;)

JayF

2005-12-21, 19:09

I doubt Akira is an Otome; no earring.
Can Otomes remove their earrings?

Sorry for the short post, school waits for no one -_-

And then there's the little matter of all Otome in the world being from Garederobe only. Akira as far as we know can't become an Otome unless she graduated from that acedemy, and if she did, everyone in the acedemy would recognize one of the Meisters.

Mysticmidnightmaiden

2005-12-21, 20:12

*cough* where did you get THAT? I'll admit he's probably not the ultimate evil, but he's most likely playing it grey this time around too. He's *not* a good guy, the same way he wasn't a good guy in HiME.

Sorry for the confusion. I think I implied "grey", but said "good". Nagi had always seemed to be the trickster in Mai-Hime, so I thought Sunrise had kept his position in the plot as this. He was much darker in HiME, but that was from the influence of the OL (mostly, I think). Of course, with the addition of his royal title, things could get a bit more messier than Mai-HiME (ACTUAL CHARACTER DEATHS with maybe a revival by the Blue Star/Harmonium... Damn Sunrise).

Ranting on, I think that Arika will definately become Mashiro's Otome. Remember, she doesn't have one at this moment (unless you count Garderobe's army as protection), and Nina/Nao are going to be Otome/Slaves/Maids for Nagi. Irina-chin... she may go down in history as the best ode to a character I have seen yet (to Midori). On topic though, I think she'd more rather want to help Yukino win the Aries Presidency again. Or create crazy inventions in an underground lab with evil Midori. Ero-stin... actually I still have no idea why she's enrolled in Garderobe, save the whole "you-look-good-when-you're-here-so-do-it" attitude that seems to have captured the attention of many a viewer recently. Those crazy Sunrise people... (lol) Besides, if all those promo pics with Arika and Mashiro together are just a red herring, what else can Sunrise flip-flop around...

(Please take all of my opinions with a grain of salt and some barbeque sauce. Well done for 30 minutes.)

atua

2005-12-21, 22:49

Mmmm, actually I dun think it make much difference Arika's ranking now. As long as she is not at the bottom.:)

Well, actually if the series goes on long enough the ranking will matter greatly, since only 25 corals will go on to become pearl otomes.

With the blatent Mashiro-is-not-the-real-princess anvil beating down on us, I'm beginning to think more and more that she will end up being the real thing.

Admittedly this still doesn't resolve the fact that there's 2 spots up for grabs (princess, Rena's daughter) and 3 candidates. (Strangely this reminds me of Mireille's moonlight musings about a mad teaparty...)

Akuma-sama

2005-12-21, 23:26

Nagi had always seemed to be the trickster in Mai-Hime, so I thought Sunrise had kept his position in the plot as this. He was much darker in HiME, but that was from the influence of the OL (mostly, I think).

Quoted for great justice, and the main reason why he was much darker in HiME is because we knew he was behind the Orphan attacks.
Right now, we don't know what's his relationship with Shwartz, with Aswald or with "the old ladies back home" (who are painfully obviously those old women who were turned into shish-kebab by Shizuru in HiME).
Just wait for it ;)

Ero-stin... actually I still have no idea why she's enrolled in Garderobe, save the whole "you-look-good-when-you're-here-so-do-it" attitude that seems to have captured the attention of many a viewer recently.

Actually, I can see a scenario that uses Erstin (lol, btw) to great effect...
Her parents are either the king/queen or nobles in Annan, her home country (I have a piece of official art here that says so (and that also says Yayoi is from Lutecia Romulus, while Lilie is from Lutecia Remus)).
Her parents sent her to Guarderobe against her will, paid her tuition (which we know to be pretty damn expensive), and most likely she's already promized to someone, possibly the king/prince/highly important ruler.

Now imagine she dies.

Now imagine she dies in a way that frames, say, Windbloom.

:upset:

Ouch. Instant tensions, possibly a war; Otomes are valuable, after all.

(Please take all of my opinions with a grain of salt and some barbeque sauce. Well done for 30 minutes.)

*munches on opinions* Hm... might want to ease off on the salt. ;)

About the names, I think those are about right: Lutecia was the name of an important gaul city (or so say Astérix books), and Remus/Remulus are the founders of Rome.
No hint as to where Tomoe is from, though :confused:

And yet another N00b has voted... unless the episode aired already?

Edit: N00bs VS Catgirls... CATGIRLS WIN! MODALITY!

Catgirls

2005-12-21, 23:53

And yet another N00b has voted... unless the episode aired already?Yeah, I saw that. Hmmm...

Edit: Ahhh...I fixed it. All back to zero. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Mousefinger/Misc/xmasbiggrin.gif

paTKany

2005-12-22, 02:48

About the names, I think those are about right: Lutecia was the name of an important gaul city (or so say Astérix books)

Lutecia=Paris

Sageblink

2005-12-22, 06:21

Lutecia=Paris

Not exactly... Some scientists have discovered that Lutecia was near Paris...
... "And the Myth fall down, like Otomes in War" :heh:

Urd

2005-12-22, 08:34

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-22, 08:38

I would laugh till death if in the end Mashiro turns out to be the real princess... Arika is Rena's daughter... and Nina does get Sergey (that would be gross).. :p
so much for us eating our fingernails for half a year.. lol :D
Gross as it may sound, surprisingly it is as close to a happy ending for all three female characters as it can get.

Mashiro got her throne, Arika gets a parent, and Nina gets her heart's desire. We would get a messy situation of Arika having to call Nina "mum", but any other path will leave at least one of them heart-broken.

Edit: I forgot Erstin... But she is in trouble anyway, being an Otome from a different nation. She would need to immigrate to have any chance at staying with Nina.

Nightengale

2005-12-22, 09:30

Edit: I forgot Erstin... But she is in trouble anyway, being an Otome from a different nation. She would need to immigrate to have any chance at staying with Nina.

Hey, she can always have the choice of forfeiting her yuri-ness for Nina and elopes with someone else instead. Rado, perhaps? Maybe even Gal. Or Irina.

Besides, out of all the Corals, she's the closest to Akane so far. Too nice for their own good, and not really too keen on the whole Otome thing. Erstin for whatever reason, Akane for Kazuya.

Catgirls

2005-12-22, 11:30

Hmmm...so by my time estimates, Episode 12 should be airing right about now. Unless I'm off in my time zone estimates.

clemox

2005-12-22, 11:46

Big spoil topic :D

Mod Edit: 2chan link expired. Now featuring cartoon porn.

Akuma-sama

2005-12-22, 11:55

Woot!
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4886/113526932658982fc5sd.jpg
:twitch:
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5336/11352699228228f835jz.jpg
Zomg, Mashiro is... cute!? O_o
Well, in a childish way. Whatever.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3148/1135270042537e5f88hu.jpg
BANG! :D

No Mai, though. Pity.

Looking forward to it ^_^

Mod Edit: Images moved off 2chan.

SpeedRcrX

2005-12-22, 12:00

Thx Clemox ^^

So about this ep; first

What's the... :twitch:
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9133/113526932658982fc4lm.jpg

I like it a lot
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3995/113526943064074946pk.jpg

Romance ??? Be careful Akira :D
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2417/11352697476412c9f7eh.jpg

Shizuru found out (I don't know why but I expected :D , that sort of thing don't pass with Shizuru ! I like her look !)
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9681/113527014566338c15ea.jpg

O_O
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/5496/1135270191860a0604ay.jpg

Tuxedo Kamen ???
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/5494/1135270173119e3045bd.jpg

Well from my comment you can see I can't wait to see the raw a lot of... things seem to happen !!!

Mod Edit: Move images off 2chan.

clemox

2005-12-22, 12:04

I like this :
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/5307/1135270781135a1039an.jpg
(not really spoil ;))

LynnieS

2005-12-22, 12:05

Shouldn't those images be moved out of 2chan before they get relinked? The third image is Takumi with Mashiro also. :)

Hmmm...so by my time estimates, Episode 12 should be airing right about now. Unless I'm off in my time zone estimates. Yup, it finished airing 15 mintes ago. Arika makes a cute princess... but she's going to be all bruised in the morning from all of the jabs and discreet hits from Nina to remind her to keep in character. :p

Edit - Well, that was stupid of me - confusing Akira and Takumi... :p

Xellos-_^

2005-12-22, 12:07

Woot!
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/1484/113526932658982fc5dr.jpg
:twitch:

Looking forward to it ^_^

I think mashiro may have spend too much time with Nao :p

Shigan

2005-12-22, 12:11

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7452/1135270191860a0608kx.jpg

*SPOILER*

OMFG, WHADDA HELLA YA DOING YOU TWO-TIMING FSFHLSJSW!!!??? O____o

Catgirls

2005-12-22, 12:14

Shouldn't those images be moved out of 2chan before they get relinked?Done. I just relinked them to ImageShack.

paTKany

2005-12-22, 12:16

No Mai, though. Pity.

Look again. Coral Mai, Coral Natsuki, Pearl Shizuru...

multani2842

2005-12-22, 12:17

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/2019/1135269886651e30d1ua.th.jpg (http://img332.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1135269886651e30d1ua.jpg)

Starks

2005-12-22, 12:17

I heard that there was a new OP... 2ch went nuts.

But it wasn't true.

Xellos-_^

2005-12-22, 12:20

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/2019/1135269886651e30d1ua.th.jpg (http://img332.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1135269886651e30d1ua.jpg)

Arika looks really good in that dress with her hair down :)

She just went form cute to hot.

And Shizuru just cracks me up with her Harem gathering :D

Diodati

2005-12-22, 12:21

OMFG, WHADDA HELLA YA DOING YOU TWO-TIMING FSFHLSJSW!!!??? O____o

Don't worry Shigan, I don't believe for a second that's what it looks like. For one thing, it's 'viewed' from Arika's p.o.v. which means it's likely to be way off :heh:

They're just having a tussle heh.

- Akira's mask is HORRIBLE. However, because she's no slouch in the abilities I really don't mind.

- Takumi and Akira have a smooch!? Awww poor Mashiro seemed smitten too.

- A photo of Natsuki, Mai, Haruka, Shizuru and the crew. I'm so happy. I believe the tanned Otome on the photo is the same one from the pic in the Speculation Thread.

- We may get to see the other girls, incl Tomoe battle

- Chie and Aoi. Woohoo!

- Mai looks like she's 'discussed' at the end...

- The preview for next episode looks like baaaaaaaaaaaad news. Even Shizuru looks concerned.

I eargerly await those who saw the episode - details details please :D

Urd

2005-12-22, 12:30

This pic troubles me...

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4143/1135270773863eb780tt.jpg

...... wonder why.........:upset:

lone_wolf

2005-12-22, 12:30

I heard that there was a new OP... 2ch went nuts.

But it wasn't true.

It would make more sense for the new opening to be the 13th episode. Either way, Hisayuki is or was working on it.

--Lone Wolf

Starks

2005-12-22, 12:44

Akane is going down next ep... So is Shizuru's hair...
http://img446.imageshack.us/img446/742/1135270773863eb789ka.jpg

Sageblink

2005-12-22, 12:54

Wooo...

Sh'e going to be graduated??

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/9915/1135272791005e3443fs.jpg

LynnieS

2005-12-22, 13:00

It would make more sense for the new opening to be the 13th episode. Either way, Hisayuki is or was working on it.

--Lone Wolf The ED seems to start out softer, though.

- Arika with her hair down and wearing a dress... although she does look a bit like mini MC Hammer with his puffy pants. :heh:

- Everything about Nina... from her pretending to be Arika by taking her name to her having to constantly "remind" Arika of her role to her expression when she realized that they missed some big posters of Mashiro as princess hanging on the buildings.

I don't like the way they panned to her holding her watch while Sergey and Arika were bantering later, though; hope it's not a foreshadowing.

- Takumi and Mashiro (while pretendiing to be Nina)'s interactions while she was playing hooky.

- Akira holding Takumi after she found him with Mashiro ill and having given him his pill.

- The way that monk character was holding himself after fighting with Shizuru. And having to use a crutch later. LOL.

Dislikes: None really... except the next episode looks to be about Akane!

NaNash|

2005-12-22, 13:24

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3379/113526932658982fc0yf.jpg

hahaha. this one really LMAO

Starks

2005-12-22, 14:00

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3379/113526932658982fc0yf.jpg

hahaha. this one really LMAO
I saw that one on 2ch... He really does like to get spanked...

ox2

2005-12-22, 14:01

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3379/113526932658982fc0yf.jpg

hahaha. this one really LMAO

this picture is soooo wrong, but i like it ;) oh and i love your avatar NaNash|

PuRpLe CryStaL

2005-12-22, 14:15

From the preview of Episode 13, I wonder who is so capable in causing hair damage to Shizuru. Could it be Mai? So Shizuru is aware that Akira has disguised himself as the Prince and Takumi still has heart problem? I would prefer him to have recovered from his illness in this series. Hopefully someone can provide us with an episode summary. I would appreciate that ^_^ Thks in Advance :D

Best Rgds
Claudine

SpeedRcrX

2005-12-22, 14:36

From the preview of Episode 13, I wonder who is so capable in causing hair damage to Shizuru.

I'm wondering about that too :confused:

Xellos-_^

2005-12-22, 14:44

I'm wondering about that too :confused:

Miyu or Mai

lone_wolf

2005-12-22, 14:47

Finally some nice interaction between these two:

http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/525/chieaoiinteraction1gs.th.jpg (http://img434.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chieaoiinteraction1gs.jpg)

--Lone Wolf

Tydus_Arandor

2005-12-22, 14:52

I don't know if this helps or not, but here's a bigger version of the Natsuki and Shizuru picture from earlier X_X.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/320/lolomfgggg22ow.jpg

Also, did anyone notice that in that picture with Coral Mai + Natsuki and Pearl Shizuru + Haruka, Mai's outfit is gold-trimmed? O_O;; I don't recall any Corals this year with a gold-trimmed outfit...I don't think Natsuki's color is used this year either o_o.

Diodati

2005-12-22, 14:59

Miyu or Mai
Miyu?
Miyu is scheduled for episode 14, but I got the impression that Shizuru meets her then, rather than Miyu coming to find Shizuru....

From the preview of Episode 13, I wonder who is so capable in causing hair damage to Shizuru. Could it be Mai?
Like Mai's flames frazzled it? :heh:
Could be, although Shizuru's face looks shocked in a very bad way - not shocked in a ''I've just seen an old face'' sorta way. So unless Mai is doing the dirty deeds on Akane/Kazuya/Arika..

When I first saw it, I thought it was a circling 'air-current', like if something big has just landed, or there's a major physical impact that's sent off a burst of air. It be anything though, I'm just trying to imagine...

It must be something that would personally 'bother' Shizuru though, she rarely shows that much expression whilst wearing her Otome outfit. If it was something horrible on Akane, it would relate back to episode 1 when Shizuru was telling Akane that it would work out fine etc. It would be horrible irony...

Finally some nice interaction between these two:
Yeah, that makes me happy too. Aoi has been so very cute in her moments this series, and Chie should just give her the flower dammit.

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/9915/1135272791005e3443fs.jpg
That strikes me as weird on so many levels. Why would she be in that gear if she wants to retire? Unless that's a psyche sequence...

Akuma-sama

2005-12-22, 15:15

:rolleyes:
Mai Otome, the only anime that makes me want to see episode 13 before having seen #12... :heh:

...*sigh* I hate internet explorer... And Win98... stupid cheap school comps...

guest

2005-12-22, 15:40

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4...58982fc5sd.jpg (http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4886/113526932658982fc5sd.jpg)

Is this for real????!!!!

Xellos-_^

2005-12-22, 15:54

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8265/11352708799750ra.jpg

just saw it closely, great shop:rolleyes:

Dagger

2005-12-22, 16:01

Finally some nice interaction between these two:

http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/525/chieaoiinteraction1gs.th.jpg (http://img434.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chieaoiinteraction1gs.jpg)

--Lone Wolf
I'm really looking forward to that part. Like you said--finally! :)

Urd

2005-12-22, 16:12

funny.. the hole in shizuru's hair seems to be made by a bullet passing by... but the only one who uses (or used) guns.. was.... natsuki... so .... nahhhhh
my bet is on may...

and nice pic of kagutsuchi passing by, btw..

Starks

2005-12-22, 16:13

I have raw caps and a raw teaser...

Here's a raw teaser to tie you over...

http://media.putfile.com/Mai-Otome_-_12_Masked_Warrior_RAW_TEASER_640x480_DivX511

MQ caps as well...

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0073.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0074.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0084.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0083.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0082.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0081.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0080.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0079.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0078.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0077.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0076.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0075.jpg

Mentar

2005-12-22, 16:43

I'm wondering about that too :confused:

I have a hunch that it's Akane. Before she bolts away from Shizuru, Kazu-kun and someone else. I'd suspect that the hole is from a near miss from a warning stab from Akane with her extendable Otome staff, telling Shizuru that she is friggen serious about rushing off to kick someone's rear for going after him (he stands before Garderobe in the final frame)

Starks

2005-12-22, 16:47

More Nagi torture...

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0085.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0087.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/LLStarks/Otome12/bscap0086.jpg

Tempest35

2005-12-22, 17:06

Man, I can't read enough of Natsuki's expression on seeing the photo that Takumi gave to her... she looks almost sad in remembering but it's not exactly a fond memory. Something must have happened between them that might not be good.

...:Prediction:...
Oh it would be insane if Mai actually joined up with Midori 's Aswald Knights.

Dagger

2005-12-22, 17:21

More Nagi torture...
I don't know if torture is the right word... he's lovin' it. :heh:

defiant

2005-12-22, 17:22

For those who has read manga chapter 19

If you have read chapter 19 of the manga you know that Akane boyfriend is member of Swartz. So could it be that they will do something like that in the anime and Akane becomes an Otome for the Swartz group?

And the first task was to fight with Shizuru? and all Galderobe?

What do you think about this?

Preston

2005-12-22, 17:28

Oh it would be insane if Mai actually joined up with Midori 's Aswald Knights.

Hmm, that would be good. I'm half supporting the Aswalds already anyway, another powerful member would only be good news. Still waiting on the raw damn it..

From what I read as I skimmed through the posts above.. I am very confused. Everyone is pretending to be everyone else? Or was I just reading to fast and read it wrong? Ah well, I'll see the raw just after I wake up tomorrow, I hope to god the RSS Feed Scanner works this week.. not that it didn't last week.. I.. ah.. forgot to activate the feeds.. :heh:

EDIT: Oh, and CVC, you really have it in for Nina, don't you? Hasn't it occurred to you.. actually, I won't bother. Just read some of my previous posts, or think what being an orphan, being closed off socially (her own fault, I am not trying to say otherwise), isolated from other groups of friends and only being shown any love from one person can do to your abilities to categorize feelings for them. Not much, in my opinion. I would structure a more precise argument, but I'm tired as hell, want to see the raw and actually cannot be bothered right now. I'll tack it onto the bottom of my hopefully long post after seeing the raw tomorrow morning (GMT).

How did Arika do this episode? I saw someone calling her hot, though I don't think I could think of her in such a way, if she is getting better it's all good. Shes growing on me, damn it, and I don't want her too! :heh: (J/K)

Hmm.. episode preview looks.. interesting.. Shizuru looking.. scared..? That cannot be good..

ifhaseth

2005-12-22, 17:34

Preston

2005-12-22, 17:40

Just got the raw. Oh man, this is so messed up. So Arika is pretending to be Mashiro. Nina is pretending to be Arika. Akira is pretending to be Takumi. Takumi is pretending to be Akira. And Mashiro is pretending to be Nina.

Guess all the twisted predictions people came up with here weren't twisted enough for Sunrise. :p

That really does sound messed up.. does it actually make any sense? Why the hell does everyone need to switch postions? And why does Arika need to be filled in for? Was she actually going to do something worthwhile? Same for Nina, why does Mashiro need to cover up for her..? God.. so messed up.. and I have no idea what provider you got your raw from.. but they are fast (NOT that I am asking to know who they were or anything else breaking this forums rules.)

paTKany

2005-12-22, 17:54

Akane becomes an Otome for the Swartz group?

What do you think about this?

I don't think so...
In that next ep preview pic Akane was wearing her home country (Furorinsu/Florins/Florence/...) otome outfit.

Varion

2005-12-22, 18:02

Views based on the raw in this post, so if you don't want to be spoiled...

That really does sound messed up.. does it actually make any sense? Why the hell does everyone need to switch postions? And why does Arika need to be filled in for? Was she actually going to do something worthwhile? Same for Nina, why does Mashiro need to cover up for her..? God.. so messed up.. and I have no idea what provider you got your raw from.. but they are fast (NOT that I am asking to know who they were or anything else breaking this forums rules.)

His provider isn't BitTorrent, that's all I'll say. Probably because it'll be the same as mine =) It does make sense, actually. If you wanna know (well, what little I could work out)...

Arika pretends to be Mashiro, because they've promised Akira that Mashiro will be there when he arrives. She isn't, so Arika has to stand in.
Nina pretends to be Arika... not sure about this one, but he says something about students and Otome.
Mashiro pretends to be Nina because she's out in the Kingdom and Takumi asks for her name. She can't say her real name, so the first one that comes to mind happens to be Nina's.

The whole Takumi/Akira thing I'd need japanese skills to work out, but
Takumi is shown wearing the Prince's outfit by the end after Shizuru discovers that Akira is actually a girl :) There's some explanation for this I'm sure, but you'll have to wait for the others to explain it

Anyway, was a funny episode that's obviously going to be followed by an even better one :) The scenes with Mashiro/Takumi were so cute, especially the one before he collapsed and on top of the bridge (when the posters of her were rolled up and Takumi gave her the flower to Hana Ichirin no Koi :D) Shizuru's sudden appearance was just... how on earth did she know to appear then? Shame the Aoi/Chie scene isn't very long though, they just talk a little, Chie waves her blue rose around and Aoi forces "Chie-chan"'s glasses onto her face.

Also, we need someone with raw skills on the conversation between Natsuki and Takumi. I'm sure he's saying something about Mai, especially seen as Natsuki mentions her name later and immediately thinks of the photo with her on, zooming straight in to Mai. Looks like it could finally be time...

http://exfrieza.homestead.com/files/gifts.jpg

ifhaseth

2005-12-22, 18:17

That really does sound messed up.. does it actually make any sense? Why the hell does everyone need to switch postions? And why does Arika need to be filled in for? Was she actually going to do something worthwhile? Same for Nina, why does Mashiro need to cover up for her..? God.. so messed up.. and I have no idea what provider you got your raw from.. but they are fast (NOT that I am asking to know who they were or anything else breaking this forums rules.)

Actually, it does make sense. Takumi is the real prince of Zipang, but apparently he ran away like Mashiro. Akira and Arika are filling in for them repectively. Nina is pretending to be "Mashiro's" otome, and doesn't want Nina to be associated with Mashiro, so she's pretending to be Arika. Takumi doesn't want Mashiro to know who he really is, so when he introduced himself, he uses Akira's name. Mashiro pretends to be from Arutai, and chooses Nina as her name.

Haha, that was fun to type out.

Apparently, Takumi is searching for a "special someone." Mashiro isn't too happy about that, but cheers up when he mentions that the person is his "onee-chan."

Shizuru has a knack of knowing who the girls are ;)

Mashiro gets first-hand knowledge that not everyone is as happy and spoiled as herself in her country.

Of course.. the "boy-on-boy" action. Arika, Nina, and Mashiro's reactions are priceless. :D

Takumi's doesn't seem to approve of Garderobe and otome... something to do with Mai I'm guessing from Natsuki's reaction.

This was a good solid plot episode, fun at first then turned serious later. Waiting for Mentar's summary. I'm sure I missed tons of plot points with my crappy Japanese, especially the Natsuki-Takumi conversation. Also, kinda confused on who Akira is supposed to be working for.

Still surprised how they managed to squeeze so much into 20 minutes. What with plot development and humor, they still managed to give the limelight to quite a few characters.

Edit: Whoops, Valdra beat me to it. :heh: Yeah, got the raw off Japanese p2p networks. (Is this too specific?)

Varion

2005-12-22, 18:26

Edit: Whoops, Valdra beat me to it. :heh: Yeah, got the raw off Japanese p2p networks. (Is this too specific?)

You picked out more than me though =P Thanks for the info :) I've heard people mention the name of the program here before, I'm just being cautious though. Either way, I want to know what Natsuki and Takumi were talking about too, it sounded both sinister and interesting.

Akane seems to dominate quite a bit of the preview though. She's shown with her eyes closed standing next to Kazu, then looking sadly at a photo of them together, then talking back-to-back with Nao through what looks like a fence of some kind, then talking with Arika on a bench, then shouting tearfully at someone, then flying at Arika while Kazu is on the floor, then it shoots straight to Shizuru with the hole blown through her hair (which is definitely not landing impact). Then standing alone in the outfit screenshoted above. Hmm...

Tremalkinger

2005-12-22, 18:44

Varion

2005-12-22, 18:52

Wait, what? Why is the raw out so early? It wasn't up on any of the providers until about 4 in the morning for the last three episodes!

Gosh darn, I just started downloading it now. Figures that the week I vow to stop my obsessive refreshing is the week it would have actually paid off.

Anyone else get the feeling like this is trying to enjoy the last day of summer vacation? Knowing there won't be an episode for two weeks is harsh.

No idea o.O; I'm not used to it being up before... well, now is the usual BT time. It's been up earlier though.

*wants Episode 13* The episode everyone's been waiting for... and we have to wait 2 weeks for it!

Tremalkinger

2005-12-22, 18:57

Meh... I guess I'm just behind the times. I don't have all this fancy schmancy Japanese P2P stuff.

Tatiana Razajev

2005-12-22, 19:02

Nice to see Akira in action again. She's still as cool as ever. Plus it's nice to see her give Takumi his medicine. I'd so love to have Akira as my doctor. In any case it will be interesting to see what has even Shizuru seeming surprised based on the next episode preview. Also it's nice to see young Mai in a picture, but the desire to see the actual Mai herself is growing rapidly. I guess they're being cruel making us wait so long. Ah well.

Woland

2005-12-22, 19:11

The expression of Natsuki in this photo...

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/860/vlcsnap9256235xh.jpg

...She is damn cute! Now I want a prequel for Mai Otome. :D

JayF

2005-12-22, 20:17

This pic troubles me...

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4143/1135270773863eb780tt.jpg

...... wonder why.........:upset:

Someone damaged her hair!!:frustrated:

Shizuru's gonna have to smack a b***H

Glass Cannon

2005-12-22, 20:30

Omg, that Shizuru picture is bugging me so badly because it's misaligned, unless my eyes are playing tricks on me XD

coefficientX

2005-12-22, 20:33

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9324/113527048946222935iw.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=113527048946222935iw.jpg) http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6044/113527050340510af1vb.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=113527050340510af1vb.jpg)

As expected, Shizuru is Pearl no.1. :D
It must be the trias in the background hehe...i can safely guess Haruka is Pearl no.2 lol.
And ZOMG, they look soooooooo cute when they are chibi!!!

Oh, and the tanned girl (with whitish hair) who stood next to Haruka, and the double-green-long-ponytails girl, ain't they the otomes for the ruuteshia~ countries? Wow, Natsuki's batch produced many outstanding otomes... :eyespin:
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2110/mocountries3ym0rj.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mocountries3ym0rj.jpg)

Ronin Aquila

2005-12-22, 20:34

']The expression of Natsuki in this photo...

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/860/vlcsnap9256235xh.jpg

AAAWWW!!! Little-Mai-Chan Cutecute!! :)

And Haruka-Oneecha, of course, confident as ever. :D

coefficientX

2005-12-22, 20:35

']The expression of Natsuki in this photo...

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/860/vlcsnap9256235xh.jpg

...She is damn cute! Now I want a prequel for Mai Otome. :D

*vigorously nodding*
I wanna see Natsuki & Shizuru especially in their Garderobe days! :love:

Varion

2005-12-22, 20:36

Omg, that Shizuru picture is bugging me so badly because it's misaligned, unless my eyes are playing tricks on me XD

It's misaligned =P Here, have another one:

http://exfrieza.homestead.com/files/shiz.jpg

*wants to see Chibi Mai and Chibi Natsuki running around so gifs can be made of it* That pic just rules :)

Xellos-_^

2005-12-22, 20:46

I just love how well Shizuru's gril radar works. As soon as figure out Akira is a girl she had a smile on her, like cat with a bowl of cream :D

Glass Cannon

2005-12-22, 20:55

It's misaligned =P Here, have another one:

http://exfrieza.homestead.com/files/shiz.jpg

*wants to see Chibi Mai and Chibi Natsuki running around so gifs can be made of it* That pic just rules :)

You are my hero <3

And that Natsuki is adorable! I want one XD;

Omniscient

2005-12-22, 21:23

Varion

2005-12-22, 21:34

Episode 12 Screencaps and really long Summary (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2005/12/22/mai-otome-12/)

Wow, this episode packs so many laughs, introduces Takumi and Akira, and yet still packs so much plot development (a lot of it towards Mai). Takumi seems to have matured so much from HiME and everything he says shows a concern for people and, of course, his sister.

Aha! Thanks for that :) Some interesting reading there. Especially this bit:

Natsuki answers that they have a strict selection process, but then Takumi demands an explanation for the 「炎珠の紅玉」 (Enju no Kougyoku - Ruby of the Flame Gem). Takumi speaks of her as a strong person who was torn over love and her dream.

Ruby makes this sound a whole lot like Mai... so I'm guessing the fact she was "torn over love and her dream" is what drove her to disappear? What were they? What's she going to be like when she comes back?

...bah, these two weeks are going to be torture ><

Ronin Aquila

2005-12-22, 21:36

YAY!! New Main-Character Time in 2 weeks!! :)

Well, at least unlike the last Sunrise placeholder, Shinn Asuka (the result of Shinji and Asuka mating without a condom), Yuemia Arika is a good, likable kid.

guest

2005-12-22, 21:49

Ruby makes this sound a whole lot like Mai... so I'm guessing the fact she was "torn over love and her dream" is what drove her to disappear? What were they? What's she going to be like when she comes back?

So Mai was torn between love and her dream? Sounds a lot like Akane. It seems this has happened a lot in Otome's history. You think they should have come up with a solution or a better sustem already.:eyebrow:

Omniscient

2005-12-22, 21:52

Valdra, I made a correction and I think it's 「炎珠の紅玉」 (Enju no Kougyoku - Ruby of the Flame Gem), not what I said before.

Varion

2005-12-22, 21:54

So Mai was torn between love and her dream? Sounds a lot like Akane. It seems this has happened a lot in Otome's history. You think they should have come up with a solution or a better sustem already.:eyebrow:

Nicely timed considering the preview seems to suggest Akane will suffer that exact same issue in full next episode. If she was driven away by that conflict though it seems to suggest it might have been a more recent thing, she looks far too happy at Garderobe to have been troubled by anything.

As for a solution... well, could they? Otome are to protect their masters. If they love someone else, they're no longer devoting themselves to their masters. No matter how you look at it, that's a recipe for internal conflict :p

Valdra, I made a correction and I think it's 「炎珠の紅玉」 (Enju no Kougyoku - Ruby of the Flame Gem), not what I said before.

Ooo... okay, I'll edit the quote above then. That sounds a lot more natural... and still like Mai :D

Ronin Aquila

2005-12-22, 21:56

Sakuya

2005-12-22, 22:16

Wow, gone for half a day and I have to catch up by reading through 4 threads. :eyespin: This looks good. I was expecting another non-action episode so this really surprised me! And Arika looks really really good with her hair down.

Can't wait for the next episode though. While I'm still getting it, can anyone actually confirm that there's no My Otome next week? :( I'm despising whatever show is taking its place... And no My Otome for the new year?!

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-22, 22:30

The very structure of the Nanomachine technology is an incredibly cruel yet highly effective system of allowing politicians to retain their authority.

Were this technology usable for both genders without restrictions, which it surely could have been developed to be so, divine right and constitutional authority would be replaced by a literal Warrior State, which if exectued correctly would actually be superior to an autocracy.

By enforcing a restriction that basically indoctrinates those implanted with the technologies to regard their master's well being as their sole source of worth, and to ensure that they never find external (namely heterosexual-romantic) sources of fulfilment, you have a source of loyal slaves without self-will as opposed to Free Spirited Warriors who can overthrow you and create a new utopia.
And exactly what makes you think these "warriors" would be interested in creating an Utopia?

Doesn't history teach us your scenario will create warlords who will constantly murder each other for power? And that people who desire to live in peace and want nothing to do with fighting would have no choice but to take up arms, because otherwise they are dead?

Nanomachines are blind; they serve anyone who has them. You offer no explanation for why justice and peace could possibly exist in your world. In that world, might is right, and the weaker bows to the stronger or die.

Your Utopia is not mine.

NaNash|

2005-12-22, 22:34

The very structure of the Nanomachine technology is an incredibly cruel yet highly effective system of allowing politicians to retain their authority.

Were this technology usable for both genders without restrictions, which it surely could have been developed to be so, divine right and constitutional authority would be replaced by a literal Warrior State, which if exectued correctly would actually be superior to an autocracy.

I believe that is explained in one of the previous episode(when Arika was enrolled into the school, plus Natsuki explain it with a *blush*). I personally think it's plausible but the technology haven't reached that standard, yet. Maybe something that John Smith taken away might be the answer? I dun know.

K, back to the episode discussion.

Doesn't what Mashiro say sounds like Queen Marie Antoinette of Louise XVI? Except Queen Marie Antoinette replace candy with cake.

But what Mashiro doing so far is just rubber stamping on documents, she can't be consider a full-fledged "queen" this way. A queen must be the one making all decisions on how the country runs and take responsible in the decision.

Tempest35

2005-12-22, 22:36

It would make sense that Mai would be the one torn between love and her dream (of becoming an Otome). I wonder who the 'un'lucky guy was who had forced her heart with that decision.

*two pairs of eyes look to Sergey*

So Akane has 'inhereted' this fateful decision eh (probably one for every batch). I wonder who the former Principal was when Shizuru ruled the Academy as Top Pearl...did they and/or her family force Mai to 'break up' with her important person in order to become an Otome? If it's something like that, then yeah I can see why Mai wouldn't come back, even if to see Natsuki and Shizuru again.

Nightengale

2005-12-22, 22:37

Is it just me, or the preview totally points towards Kazu biting the dust?

NaNash|

2005-12-22, 22:44

*two pairs of eyes look to Sergey*

How the hell do you have two pair of eyes when you r only one person?:)

Timeless Enigma

2005-12-22, 22:50

It would make sense that Mai would be the one torn between love and her dream (of becoming an Otome). I wonder who the 'un'lucky guy was who had forced her heart with that decision.

*two pairs of eyes look to Sergey*

I was thinking along those lines as well since during that conversation, Sergay is reading a letter that has the Tokiha seal on it.

If so... that's more evidence pointing towards Sergay being Otome's "Yuuchi Tate."

Nightengale

2005-12-22, 22:50

Sergey is not Tate. Not only they look different, they sound different, voiced by a different seiyuu, and their overall personality is a bit different as well.

Assuming he is though, it's weird that Nina haven't angsted over it. If he kept Rena's, he sure must had kept Mai's.

Timeless Enigma

2005-12-22, 23:00

When I say (character) is Otome's (Mai-HiME character) what I mean is that they serve roughly the same purpose in the story and share some attributes. An example would be Nina and Natsuki. Nina was never meant to be a clone of Natsuki; she is very unique and different from Natsuki, but at the same time she shares the same role Natsuki had in Mai-HiME.
There are some theories going around as to why Tomokazu Seki is not participating in Mai-Otome, I don't think there's anything concrete. Regardless, you can't overlook the fact that Sergay shares many attributes with Yuuichi, and this leads to many people seeing Sergay as "Tate (improved x100)".

bluegarden

2005-12-22, 23:48

It seems Mai and Natsuki were Coral No. 1 and 2, the color of the lines in their uniforms are different.
Gold and baby blue

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/9450/1135270781135a1038lo.jpg

Akuma-sama

2005-12-23, 00:18

The colors are unique for every Otome. Check the current Corals' uniforms ;)

USCPharmacist

2005-12-23, 00:34

man...your portrait is .....disturbing...:twitch:

shadowduck

2005-12-23, 00:56

Can't wait for the next episode though. While I'm still getting it, can anyone actually confirm that there's no My Otome next week? :( I'm despising whatever show is taking its place... And no My Otome for the new year?!

At the end of the episode at the bottom, it tells you next episode is Thursday, Jan 5th.. Here is a screencap:

http://www.figuild.com/images/ep12.jpg

PastPrime

2005-12-23, 01:02

I wonder if the charade played out by Mashiro, Nina, and Arika could be a forshadowing of the true relationships, with the current Arika really being the Queen (Mashiro), Nina really being Rena's daughter (Arika), and Mashiro really being the one who should be filling Nina's position.

Sakuya

2005-12-23, 01:20

I finally finished this episode. Arika really did think that Akira is an Otome. But I could not make out Akira's reply to that. What was it? :confused:

PuRpLe CryStaL

2005-12-23, 01:31

Regarding the preview of Episode 13 where Shizuru's hair appeared to have been evaporated, I was thinking it is likely to be someone who has the power/element of a "fireball" like Kagatsuchi to cause that kind of effect :D

My goodness, Nina bashing Arika up when Akira is not looking at her direction was funny too :heh: I haven't watch the show yet and was Nina trying to comfort Arika by patting on her back; telling her that too bad Akira is interested in Yaoi (after the scene on Akira feeding Takumi with pills)? I must say Chibi Natsuki + Chibi Mai = Kawaii x3 :heh:

Shigan

2005-12-23, 02:03

SAW EPISODE 12 AND....

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!! I HAVENT LAUGHED THIS MUCH SINCE AZUMANGA DAIOH!!! The awesomeness in the end of Mashiro's and Takumi's date when all the three girls get to witness the MAGNIFICIENT SCENE OF YAOI before them sent me to the floor howling XD XD XD. Oh GAWD!!! XD What a way to end your first date Mashiro! To get your boy kissed by what you think is another guy!!! WOOOOHOOO!!! XDXD

It seems like Mai is really missing then, and she even got to keep her whole name from MH. And Natsuki in a coral robe seems....wrong somehow O_o. Have we got to see the trias girl behind Mai in the photo btw? It seems like a at least two more of the corals in that photo are current royal otomes.

Aoi and Chie fans rejoy, they finally get their time together, and I didnt catch what Aoi said but they went to school together? So Aoi is a otome flunk out?

It seems like Akane is going to undergo her meister ceremony next time, does this mean that the girls are going to move up to pearls now?

Whoever drew Akira's battle suit needs to be fired. Now.

and lastly...

It looks like someone got a close shot at Shizuru, her hair seemed to vaporize much like how you usually animate it if something frail is hit by a bullet, and seeing her facial expression it seems like she was unprepared for it which is...wow. Natsuki...? No... O_o

GREAT episode. Cute, story developement, character revelation AND hilarious at points. *thumbs up*

Mentar

2005-12-23, 02:09

Is it just me, or the preview totally points towards Kazu biting the dust?

Watch the preview screen again, when Akane flies off in her obvious "take no prisoners" mood. In the background we see Shizuru and Kazu-kun, so who- or whatever attacks Kazu-kun and Arika seems to have acted BEFORE this scene (causing Akane to tilt). Unless Kazu-kun is attacked TWICE in the next episode, and the second attack succeeds even while he's under Shizuru's protection, he should be safe for now.

aikming

2005-12-23, 02:20

mintyfresh

2005-12-23, 02:34

I finally finished this episode. Arika really did think that Akira is an Otome. But I could not make out Akira's reply to that. What was it? :confused:
"Don't put me into the same category as you!!"

It seems Akira holds Otome in very low regard. :heh:

I'm guessing it stems from Prince Takumi's hatred of the system, or perhaps from seeing first hand what it did to Mai.

SpeedRcrX

2005-12-23, 02:38

It's misaligned =P Here, have another one:

http://exfrieza.homestead.com/files/shiz.jpg

*wants to see Chibi Mai and Chibi Natsuki running around so gifs can be made of it* That pic just rules :)

Huh.... The wait will kill me for sure....
Because it has to be something really big to put that expression on Shizuru.
And I wouldn't mind a prequel of Mai Otome ;)

Shigan

2005-12-23, 02:49

"Don't put me into the same category as you!!"

It seems Akira holds Otome in very low regard. :heh:

I'm guessing it stems from Prince Takumi's hatred of the system, or perhaps from seeing first hand what it did to Mai.

From what I understood, Takumi doesnt know what happened to Mai either.Why else would he be searching for her.

Wow, this story is so messed up. I'll have all the respect for Sunrise if they can tie all this into a well-working story, it's just becoming slightly overwhelming for an anime.

Starks

2005-12-23, 03:13

What happens when an Aswald Slave dies?

the_devil2000

2005-12-23, 03:14

We should expect to see more plots on akane in the next episode. sadly 2 weeks from now. :(

Do you guys think this will be 26 episodes or more? Have they mentioned the number of episode either at anime-express or its own website?

yea, I agree 2 weeks is too much

Apparently AnimeNewsNetwork and AnimeDb, might have got some information that this series is going to be 26 episodes, but I hope it will be longer.

In a Fortnight time I wonder what will happen to Akane and her male (boy) friend?

I wonder when Sunrise will review who is the princess, it shouldn't be long if this series ends on 26!

letsall-makemistakes

2005-12-23, 03:59

Sorry if this has been posted already
I know there are some Shiz fanboys out there and she's arguably one of the most fascinating characters on the show BUT she doesnt have a magic trick for detecting girls / cross dressers... Its not about pheronomes or hormones whatever.

Its called being observant.
Dunno if it is a he or she (Shiz may have been confronted alot to this situation before:p )? then check if he/she s got an adam's apple. Direct and simple. I wont post a screenshot with the close up on akira's throat but youll probably see what i mean.;)

:( hmm sorry if i broke the magic guys...

Shigan

2005-12-23, 04:06

I know there are some Shiz fanboys out there
:( hmm sorry if i broke the magic guys...

FanBOYS? *blinks* You're new aintcha? :D

I just thought of something, when Natsuki and Takumi was talking during the end of the episode. *Sergey* is receiving letters from someone who writes in the Zipang language???

It sounds crazy as of now but could Tate's improved substitute - Sergey be who Mai went into exile for? O_o Since, well, of all possible pair-offs with Sergey, Mai would actually be in the correct age group, saving us from all the lolipedo-whatever tendencies SergxNina/SergxRena brings up. And it could be my japanese but Takumi did say, "she was a strong person who was torn between her dream and heart" didn't he? So Mai might have left Garderobe and disappeared because her otome-dream and her love-interest clashed?

And I repeat, whoever that drew Akira's battle suit needs to be offed. Now.

midnightlumina

2005-12-23, 04:34

Quick guess, Mai goes "Kira" (ep23) on ep 13...

Preston

2005-12-23, 05:56

Excellent episode, liked it a lot, probably quite a bit more than last episode, which I did like. I'll enclose the rest of my post in spolier tags, just to be on the safe side, and I'll tackle the 'best bits' one by one (in no particular order)..

First up, the funny way Nina reminds Arika of her task of impersonating Mashiro. Seems Nina wants to get back at Arika for all those times she abused Nina's ticklish problem. I must say the part when she hit Arika in the face and her expression quickly changed to a -__- type one and quietly said 'shhh' made me laugh out loud. Its a genuine surprize that no-one noticed Nina's constant 'reminders' to Arika..

Hmm, Chie and Aoi scene was funny also. Did Chie try to offer Aoi her rose? The best thing is that Chie has her glasses back, oh yes! They are like.. part of her.. they make her look somewhat serious AND cool at the same time. Lets hope she keeps them.

Takumi and Akira make a welcome return, but I must say one thing.. Akiras BaTlE uNiFoRM!! *_______* Who designed that? Were they high? What the hell are those goggle type things? Errrrrrg. Well, at least she can move super fast. So, if shes not an Otome, what is she? The moment Akira and Takumi shared in the last scene or so was priceless.. the expressions on Nina, Arika and Mashiro's faces was hilarious.. I laughed out loud at that moment.

Scene where Mashiro is trying to point out the poster and it's gone by the time Takumi looked made me chuckle, especially when I saw the pile of exhausted people that had pulled it up.

And that is all I can remember right now, I'll post another like this after I see Doremi's sub, once I get an accurate idea of what was going on. Very nice episode.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-23, 06:03

Preston

2005-12-23, 06:07

About Chie's glasses...

Why haven't anyone asked where Aoi got them from?

Am I the only one who thought Chie left the glasses behind at Aoi's room the last time she 'visited'? How else would Aoi have come by them?

Haha.. actually a very good idea, I can see that happening.. sadly, we may never know.. or perhaps Aoi just took them herself when Chie was sleeping or something, Chie guessed it was her and didn't bother to ask for them back.

Tempest35

2005-12-23, 06:10

Talking about women is what men are best at anyway. :D lol

Anyway, on to more 'thread topic' things, I had to say I found it very amusing that many people were assuming that Sergey is 'still in love' or at least 'crushing hard' on Rena and will do anything to get her back. I really didn't get that vibe from him - sure he had a crush but now she's more of an 'onee-san' to him rather than a crush 14 years old + how many years before the raid that he knew her. I mean, 14 years, c'mon, this is Sergey! We've all seen him when he's around pretty women - he can't help himself but flirt - established in ep 1.

I mean, who can forget that Tate and Mai still have to finish up from MH since they didn't even get a proper kiss during the entire season.

Natsuki probably hasn't gotten one word from Mai since she 'disappeared' ; its obvious that Takumi hasn't but he does know that she's alive. If the letter that Sergey gets IS from Mai, it can mean a few things but I won't jump the gun and say that they are 'still in love' or anything like that (for now). Why would she write Sergey a letter and not Natsuki? I'm sure that they are still friends despite what happened in the past. Is she looking for Rena in her own way or did she run for another reason?
I'm sure that Mai knows about Natsuki becoming the Principal. Maybe that's when she set off to try and (this is just random pure spec) find away to keep her powers of Otome without the stupid 'male hormone' jinx that's on it. ^^ Now I'm really thinking hard that Mai actually joins up with Midori and the Aswald Knights later on.

Another pebble in the pond : maybe part of Natsuki's being the Principal is to make sure that another 'tragedy' like what happened to Mai doesn't occur again?

Preston

2005-12-23, 06:17

Tempest35, good ideas. Hmm, what do you think of the Aswald's control over the nanomachines? Reccon that Midori can hold the incredible powers she showed us in episode 10 and still persue a heterosexual relationship? I think so, since they way I see it is, that the people that designed the Otome's nanos deliberately stopped once they reached where they were, knowing they could remove the weakness against the Y chromosome but keeping it since it was an advantage to do so, for whatever reason. Perhaps they even went so far as to implement it themselves for security purposes. Aswald's scientists probably found a way around it, but we shall just have to wait for further information..

kari-no-sugata

2005-12-23, 06:17

I hate to say "I told you so", but:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=411120&postcount=88

Takumi's the real prince - check. Akira's his ninja - check. Mai's Takumi's elder sister - check. This makes Mai a real princess, so her official title can be "Mai-hime". Sweet. I was right that Japang doesn't have a Otome as well, though not quite on the details.

Anyway, with regards to Mai, we get some interesting info. Seems given that she did graduate - since she has a Meistar name. Did she ever do a contract with anyone though? Takumi says everyone thought she was very strong - ie it was surprising that even she would have problems with love vs duty (being an Otome). I think it was Iori who said that Mai and Takumi used to be very close - helps understand why Takumi would go to look around Wind Bloom just for the sake of seeing what kind of place Mai was in (while an Coral/Pearl etc I presume).

Looks like what Takumi showed Mashiro will also help her take being a queen more seriously. Eg, that the people camped by the river are like that because they can't get jobs. Maybe she'll start feeling a bit guilty for being so selfish etc.

I wonder what Sergay was doing with a letter seemingly from Mai. Was it an old letter? Does she randomly correspond with him? Given that Sergay was in Wind Bloom most of the time, it's not surprising he could have met Mai. If Mai's love problems were due to Sergay, then they'd probably be about the same age (25). I guess Sergay found Nina after Mai left. One thought I did have though - maybe Mai is helping Sergay search for the "real princess", hence the letter. But that seems a little odd. Hmm.

Side note. Sergay does still seem to be truely searching for the lost "real princess" of Wind Bloom. Yet he's pretty certain that Arika is Rena's daughter. Which would mean that Rena's daughter isn't the real princess.

Shame we still don't know what a "pillar" is exactly, or how Meistars get chosen to be one. Since Natsuki's a pillar, if qualifying for a pillar is based entirely on ability then Mai should be one too, since she was ahead of Natsuki in the rankings. (though there could be complications with what happened - eg maybe Mai had a slump but still graduated)

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-23, 06:31

Just for those who can't tell, the letter Sergay was holding has the red seal "Tokiha", likely the royal seal, and the black kanji along the right is "Takumi" with three extra kanji added at the end. Is it the Nation's name?

鴇羽　巧海 was the original...
http://www.my-zhime.net/character/img/img_p_takumi.gif

So in conclusion, the letter was from Takumi, with his signature at the end followed by his royal seal. It's not Mai's letter, I'm afraid.

Ronin Aquila

2005-12-23, 06:36

And exactly what makes you think these "warriors" would be interested in creating an Utopia?

Doesn't history teach us your scenario will create warlords who will constantly murder each other for power? And that people who desire to live in peace and want nothing to do with fighting would have no choice but to take up arms, because otherwise they are dead?

Nanomachines are blind; they serve anyone who has them. You offer no explanation for why justice and peace could possibly exist in your world. In that world, might is right, and the weaker bows to the stronger or die.

Your Utopia is not mine.

Firstly, that was not a personal attack or an attempt to forcefully impose my views, just an honest expression of them. Of course it is not your view of what Utopia is; the higher powers that be (by whatever name) gave us free will to believe what we will.

The "Utopia" in question is undeniably violent; the very term defines an ideal society, not necessarily peaceful.

At the very least, however, conflicts would be much more honest and literally open, free of the subterfuge and dishonor that pollutes boardroom politics.

And do excuse me for not being specific enough in my descriptions, for I do not believe (as I once did) in hogging the board all to myself. The very nature of Nanomachines still allows, nay, ENCOURAGES a democratically elected Warrior State.

ONLY those ELECTED by the people, who have PROVEN themselves to be of noble and worthy character are granted the basic rank of warriors, for only those who love and are willing to lay down their lives for the people they serve deserve such responsibilities.

And call me overly idealistic if you will, what makes you ASSUME that once a warrior becomes powerful, he or she will suddenly, magically and AUTOMATICALLY stop loving and caring for the society that has nurtured him or her to adulthood?

Should one become too hatefully arrogant and tyrannical, what makes you think that the others would automatically sit back, cynically "not care" and let him or her rain suffering on the world? Have faith in heroes, won't you?

But then again, I'm just an idealist who nostalgically longs for the rebirth of a heroic age DEAD since the Boxer Rebellion, who has too much faith in the supposed basic goodness and nobility of human nature, so what the hell do I know?

Tempest35

2005-12-23, 06:38

Nanos have no say so in how they are used - they're preprogrammed that way, meaning that 'someone' set these things off to destroy themselves when in contact with male cells.
Maybe it started off for a good reason - like babies with nano-tech already inside of them having a harder time coping or just the increase in power is too much for a child. Maybe the original idea just got perverted a bit and now we have Otome - super soldiers. The tech was probably there so that the people on the planet could survive period.
Now I really want to see what Schwarz is gonna do with that info and what it means for Aswald and Guaderobe.

Mai and Arika are very similar - they both want to be an Otome but they don't want to end up fighting their friends because of someone else's decision.

If Mai and Sergey did in fact fall in love while she was a Pearl, it would explain why he left Akane and Kazu alone that one time on the beach (either that or he was just being a nice guy). It would also explain the tension level between himself and Natsuki. ^^ Mai would be a point of contention for both of them.

Tempest35

2005-12-23, 06:41

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-23, 06:46

Firstly, that was not a personal attack or an attempt to forcefully impose my views, just an honest expression of them. Of course it is not your view of what Utopia is; the higher powers that be (by whatever name) gave us free will to believe what we will.

The "Utopia" in question is undeniably violent; the very term defines an ideal society, not necessarily peaceful.

At the very least, however, conflicts would be much more honest and literally open, free of the subterfuge and dishonor that pollutes boardroom politics.

And do excuse me for not being specific enough in my descriptions, for I do not believe (as I once did) in hogging the board all to myself. The very nature of Nanomachines still allows, nay, ENCOURAGES a democratically elected Warrior State.

ONLY those ELECTED by the people, who have PROVEN themselves to be of noble and worthy character are granted the basic rank of warriors, for only those who love and are willing to lay down their lives for the people they serve deserve such responsibilities.

And call me overly idealistic if you will, what makes you ASSUME that once a warrior becomes powerful, he or she will suddenly, magically and AUTOMATICALLY stop loving and caring for the society that has nurtured him or her to adulthood?

Should one become too hatefully arrogant and tyrannical, what makes you think that the others would automatically sit back, cynically "not care" and let him or her rain suffering on the world? Have faith in heroes, won't you?

But then again, I'm just an idealist who nostalgically longs for the rebirth of a heroic age DEAD since the Boxer Rebellion, who has too much faith in the supposed basic goodness and nobility of human nature, so what the hell do I know?
So who determines who gets nanomachines?

You still haven't answered that vital question; That this simple process of giving people super-human strength need to be regulated, but how would it be done in your world?

ONLY those ELECTED by the people, who have PROVEN themselves to be of noble and worthy character are granted the basic rank of warriors, for only those who love and are willing to lay down their lives for the people they serve deserve such responsibilities.
How is this quote possible? Why should people who got themselves nano-machine treatment, who may or may not have any sense of honour, care about maintaining democracy? Why should they care about elections if they can crush cities with their little finger?

Nanomachines offer power without cost, if you decide to deregulate it. No need to train under a master. No need to bruise one's knuckles, or wake up early in the morning, or learn how not to use it. Just shoot it up, slot a gem into a piece of clothing via a socket, and you can crush tanks with your bare hands. What kind of "warrior" is that?

You suggest only the most deserving will get the power of GEMs. So I ask you: who decides who is and isn't deserving?

This is your early quote:
Were this technology usable for both genders without restrictions, which it surely could have been developed to be so, divine right and constitutional authority would be replaced by a literal Warrior State, which if exectued correctly would actually be superior to an autocracy.

Don't forget, you already disbanded Gardrobe. What would you use instead? Nanomachines will be used indiscriminately by all people who would wish to commit crimes. In fact, they already do. There is no proof that your worrior state has any reason to be anything but a "might is right" nation.

I presume your "executed correctly" means to have the most powerful person, who rules by default because he/she is the strongest, to be a good person by luck, then?

Where are your villains? The corrupt officials? The thieves who will steal the technology and give nanomachines to all the criminals in the world?

There are major flaws in the Gardrobe system. But that doesn't mean a free-for-all chaotic world where a civilian who doesn't know how to defend himself is doomed, would be better.

Diodati

2005-12-23, 06:46

Shame we still don't know what a "pillar" is exactly, or how Meistars get chosen to be one. Since Natsuki's a pillar, if qualifying for a pillar is based entirely on ability then Mai should be one too, since she was ahead of Natsuki in the rankings. (though there could be complications with what happened - eg maybe Mai had a slump but still graduated)
I hope they go back to this Pillar thing, it was a brief comment said in episode 1 - I think 12 episodes is long enough for a bit more clarification. And I'm getting the impression that a Pillar is someone solely dedicated to the protection of Garderobe (seeing as quite a few people are somewhat hostile to the place: Midori and now Akira/Takumi), rather than someone who is ranked higher than the others. It's just a feeling. And if it is, then Mai might not be a Pillar: if you became that torn by a system would you then dedicate your life to upholding the institute which teaches it.

:confused:

Your post about the fanboys were amusing since we do got a little Shizuru-sect here which's members like to dance naked around a fire during full-moon while chanting Shizuru's name... *looks around* - and we're mostly girls ain't we?
*nods*

Heh the land of the fanboy has been usurped.

It would also explain the tension level between himself and Natsuki. ^^ Mai would be a point of contention for both of them.
That would work....
But I dunno, I'm not wholly convinced by this Mai x Sergay speculation. Heh, I would find it quite funny if a 'real' Tate was introduced, to see him die in a flashback. Hence why Mai did a runner etc.

This was probably one of if not my fave episode so far. Probably because it included all my faves, and also as it's started to really focalised the main three and most people made an appearance. Nah it was because they showed chibi Mai and Natsuki - they were to die for. Awww.

Arika was unbelievably ill-suited for the role heh, and I was very happy to see Nina play along in with the charade; the nudges and punches were very comedic. Mashiro I thought was very adorable, bless her, it's obvious that she matured considerably over the course of the episode. The shot where Akira whips out Takumi's medication as great - how Nina did the 'custom' and Arika just stood there like a dork until Nina put her hand on her head. That was cute.

And I agree very much with what Takumi says at the end, and I think deep down Natsuki must, surely. They have a 'good selection' process?! I'm not so sure - they recruit girls at an age where they won't really understand the whole commitment and effects of being an Otome - they may think they do, but come on. I quite like the idea that Mai became disgruntled and couldn't bear the pressure or something similar. It really highlights the problems of the Otome structure, in the same manner Akane will show next episode. As well as all the power-bias Garderobe has for being 'the only school for Otome' etc.

And whilst Mashiro really looked like her HiME counterpart, Arika to state the obvious, positively screams...
RENAAAAAAAAA this episode, it's becoming more and more gradual, I thought so on the trip. But now, make the hair brown and it would be a young Rena. Even if this is one big fat red herring, I can't understand why there would be so many physical parallels if they weren't related - unless it's to make Nina more paranoid...

http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/3480/arikarenaalike8bm.jpg

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-23, 07:00

Note from your picture, that Arika has Rena's eyes...

Then again, Nina has Sergay's eyes too. I will stop here.:D

Pazu

2005-12-23, 07:10

It sounds crazy as of now but could Tate's improved substitute - Sergey be who Mai went into exile for? O_o Since, well, of all possible pair-offs with Sergey, Mai would actually be in the correct age group, saving us from all the lolipedo-whatever tendencies SergxNina/SergxRena brings up. And it could be my japanese but Takumi did say, "she was a strong person who was torn between her dream and heart" didn't he? So Mai might have left Garderobe and disappeared because her otome-dream and her love-interest clashed?

watching Shizuru's blow in Arika's ear in 2nd ep. I had a feeling that she was
doing it to stop Natsuki thinking about *something*. It was clear that Natsuki and
Sergey didn't like each other, and the reason was probably events in their past.
It could be Mai 'between' them ;).

Ronin Aquila

2005-12-23, 07:10

So who determines who gets nanomachines?

How is this quote possible? Why should people who got themselves nano-machine treatment, who may or may not have any sense of honour, care about maintaining democracy? Why should they care about elections if they can crush cities with their little finger?

Nanomachines offer power without cost, if you decide to deregulate it. No need to train under a master. No need to bruise one's knuckles, or wake up early in the morning, or learn how not to use it. Just shoot it up, slot a gem into a piece of clothing via a socket, and you can crush tanks with your bare hands. What kind of "warrior" is that?

My apologies. I only received a C+ for my final Year 12 English score, and I guess I may have deserved it.

Let me be more specific.

What I tried to express was that you have to be of noble character AND exceptional skill if you even want Nanomachines injected-in-your-body, much less gain ANY political rank.

Of COURSE you SHOULD NOT give Nanomachines to selfish psychopaths and weaklings: Shiho and Tomoe are living proof of the disasters that follow.

And yes, in this system, you would have to be a Martial Artist the equivalent of a certain blonde, Bruce Lee Jumsuit wearing warrior to be even noticed as a candidate.

In fact, the election I proposed was: If you are not a warrior of elite skill who is ALSO Compassionate, Kind and Honorable BEFORE your campaign, you won't even get to SEE the syringe that grants you your power, much less stand for election.

The authority to control the production and distribution of Nanomachines, on the other hand, should only be reserved for retired Elder Warriors who are no longer capable of combat, and hence little to no ulterior motives for power. They have NO power and authority other than to safeguard the technology, and as lifelong servants of the people's will, continue to serve it via the production and induction of their protector's powers.

This is quite close to the Warhammer 40,000 concept of Space Marine induction, in which an aspirant has to be ALREADY a mighty hero of noble character BEFORE even receiving the BASIC implants for becoming a lowly scout amongst and army of heroes.

Feel free to point out any more flaws in this concept: had it not been for your contentions, I would not have put more proper thought into the concept.

asthalanthil

2005-12-23, 07:18

watching Shizuru's blow in Arika's ear in 2nd ep. I had a feeling that she was
doing it to stop Natsuki thinking about *something*. It was clear that Natsuki and
Sergey didn't like each other, and the reason was probably events in their past.
It could be Mai 'between' them ;).

Really? I dunno, it looks as she noticed that Arika was feeling rather sad about her grandma and wanted to distract her.

But what a way to distract :heh:

Shizuru V seems to be quite kind this time around... Shizuru F only seemed to display kindness towards Natsuki but V did make the effort to comfort Nina and all, so I think it's more plausible that Shizuru wanted to distract Arika.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-23, 07:32

The authority to control the production and distribution of Nanomachines, on the other hand, should only be reserved for retired Elder Warriors who are no longer capable of combat, and hence little to no ulterior motives for power. They have NO power and authority other than to safeguard the technology, and as lifelong servants of the people's will, continue to serve it via the production and induction of their protector's powers.

Feel free to point out any more flaws in this concept: had it not been for your contentions, I would not have put more proper thought into the concept.

Ahhh... Yes, the "Jedi Council", effectively.

The main flaw, is that you assume there is no Sith.

And you know full well what happens when those people who desire to do great harm for personal gain ended up infiltrating political systems that assumes no evil exists amongst them...

Your elders who suppose to regulate the technology have no real means of protecting themselves from treachery. The fact that their authority relies on respect alone is also a major flaw.

Any political system, and I do mean ANY, works if those at the top are nice people. The difficulty is to keep the bad people out, and you offered no real means of doing that.

A warrior state is ruled by the sword. It benefits only those who can fight. Those who can't, suffers. Even if they are ruled by kind masters, they are still being ruled, with only as much rights as the masters are willing to offer.

In Gardrobe, the Otomes are heavily regulated:

#They have laws determining where and when they can activate their robes for combat, most of them need activation to fight, which means at least one other person must offer approval before any fighting commences.

#Those with a master know they are not immortal, as their master's death will kill them.

#The masters can't abuse/overuse the Otome, for their own lives are on the line.

#All the Otomes were strictly trained over two years, making sure that anyone who wasn't serious about earning their powers through blood and sweat will drop out.

All this makes sure Otomes can't go on a killing spree, and that normal people can live their lives protected by an otome, but not threatened by one.
##############
We both agree that bad sorts can do great harm if they get hold of the technology. Gardrobe makes sure the version available isn't very useful for people who want to do evil. After all, I have a feeling the "pillar" tech is classified... The ability to self-activate is intentionally blocked to all but 5 people, because pillar tech can cause great chaos in the wrong hands.

You wanted the nanomachines "without restrictions", which I assume means no masters. I can assure you Natsuki already imagined what the world would be like that way, and she certainly doesn't like it...

Shigan

2005-12-23, 07:44

Talking about women is what men are best at anyway. lol
Ara, is that a challenge? ;)

Oh, I know! Mai eloped with Rena!

*gets thrown into lava-pit*

:D

Preston

2005-12-23, 07:45

I hope they go back to this Pillar thing, it was a brief comment said in episode 1 - I think 12 episodes is long enough for a bit more clarification. And I'm getting the impression that a Pillar is someone solely dedicated to the protection of Garderobe (seeing as quite a few people are somewhat hostile to the place: Midori and now Akira/Takumi), rather than someone who is ranked higher than the others. It's just a feeling. And if it is, then Mai might not be a Pillar: if you became that torn by a system would you then dedicate your life to upholding the institute which teaches it.

:confused:

*nods*

Heh the land of the fanboy has been usurped.

That would work....
But I dunno, I'm not wholly convinced by this Mai x Sergay speculation. Heh, I would find it quite funny if a 'real' Tate was introduced, to see him die in a flashback. Hence why Mai did a runner etc.

This was probably one of if not my fave episode so far. Probably because it included all my faves, and also as it's started to really focalised the main three and most people made an appearance. Nah it was because they showed chibi Mai and Natsuki - they were to die for. Awww.

Arika was unbelievably ill-suited for the role heh, and I was very happy to see Nina play along in with the charade; the nudges and punches were very comedic. Mashiro I thought was very adorable, bless her, it's obvious that she matured considerably over the course of the episode. The shot where Akira whips out Takumi's medication as great - how Nina did the 'custom' and Arika just stood there like a dork until Nina put her hand on her head. That was cute.

And I agree very much with what Takumi says at the end, and I think deep down Natsuki must, surely. They have a 'good selection' process?! I'm not so sure - they recruit girls at an age where they won't really understand the whole commitment and effects of being an Otome - they may think they do, but come on. I quite like the idea that Mai became disgruntled and couldn't bear the pressure or something similar. It really highlights the problems of the Otome structure, in the same manner Akane will show next episode. As well as all the power-bias Garderobe has for being 'the only school for Otome' etc.

And whilst Mashiro really looked like her HiME counterpart, Arika to state the obvious, positively screams...
RENAAAAAAAAA this episode, it's becoming more and more gradual, I thought so on the trip. But now, make the hair brown and it would be a young Rena. Even if this is one big fat red herring, I can't understand why there would be so many physical parallels if they weren't related - unless it's to make Nina more paranoid...

http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/3480/arikarenaalike8bm.jpg

Hmm, I'm not ready to say that I think Arika is Rena's daughter. We haven't been given any SOLID evidence so far, I mean, evidence that would stand up in court.

Then again, Nina has Sergay's eyes too. I will stop here.:D

I'm starting to find your bias quite amusing. :)

Very interesting arguments concerning the use of the nanomachines, which I have yet to finish reading.

Preston

2005-12-23, 07:57

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-23, 08:09

Hmm, CVC, I think there may be deeper meanings to the way the nanomachines are than you suggest, I think they have been deliberately made that way, but for other reasons than you say. I don't think we have seen the top players yet, the people that pull the strings from the shadows. Yes, I do believe they exist. The Otomes didn't make or design or even influence, it seems, the creation of the nanomachines. It was more like 'Hey, have this, it will make you stronger', and only afterwards 'Did you read the small print?'. I'm not sure the entire Otome hierarchy has been exposed just yet, since, it is a army lead by soliders at the moment, not an army run by the people in suits, which I find more plausible. Natsuki, for example, may believe she is in control, yet, I have a strange feeling that there is a higher tier, that can indirectly influence the Otomes, perhaps through the restrictions imposed by the means of getting the powers in the first place.

This is why I quite like the Aswalds, their own clear purpose, their own tech and their own scientists. Does look quite an atrractive package, and the Otomes perhaps just have to learn of this alternate career line. That is of course if they don't turn out to be a bunch of mis-lead psycopaths that believe in a world that no longer exists and are fighting for a non-existent goal, which I suppose is still possible.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree that Natsuki isn't as powerful as she likes. She can barely tell other rulers what to do.

And yes, the Aswards are an interesting bunch. They could obviously be easily miss-lead, no matter how noble the original intention. And story-telling tradition means they will be betrayed at least once.

The greatest problem about nanomachines, as I point out previously, is that it is potentially extremely dangerous. Right now, Shwartz's nanomachine slave would kill the user, and the Slaves are only so-so. Asward's GEM has a short time limit, and the Child's limitations are unknown... the likelihood that the summoner needs to stay alive during combat is likely one limit. And the Gardrobe Nanomachines has a gender barrier as well as master requirement.

Imagine if all these things are gone? If they are all at Shizuru's power level? With no restrictions? And if Shwatz start using it?

It would probably happen... it would be when the war break out, most likely. The rulers have been itchy to kill each other for some time.

paTKany

2005-12-23, 09:21

"Takumi" with three extra kanji added at the end. Is it the Nation's name?
鴇羽　巧海 was the original...

鴇羽巧海頭忠頼 reads "Tokiha Takumi tou Tadayori" or something like this (Akira said the full fancy title in the episode)
Zipang is ジパング

Ronin Aquila

2005-12-23, 09:25

Any political system, and I do mean ANY, works if those at the top are nice people. The difficulty is to keep the bad people out, and you offered no real means of doing that.

A combination of Confucian Indoctrination and controlled fear would do wonders in this department. Thank the Ching Dynasty for that.

Confucian Indoctrination: Warrior or not, every citizen of said warrior-state is indoctrinated from birth to follow the virtues of Filial respect, and to never forget their familial and human roots. Megalomania may be strong, but that does not make love for one's blood and people any less so.

Controlled Fear: The only thing that a warrior/otome has to fear is another warrior/otome. Sure, a single upstart with delusions of grandeur can probably instill him/herself as a temporary dictator of a small province, maybe even defeat one of his/her former compatriots in single combat. But boy would his/her expression change when a dozen (if not more) loyalists who still love their brother humans surround the traitor and tears him/her limb from limb.

That's right. The final and most important doctrine for warriors is that since thier bodies are quite literally given to them by the society that has elected them high protectors, their being is no longer their own. The at the first transgression, namely the harm, rape, theft or murder of a non-warrior, will void the warrior's claim to their being. The loyalists who have not forgotten their humanity are then obligated to dismember the traitor for their treachery towards the body of society that has become their parents.

This self-same indoctrination Physically-Frail Emperors to lord over Warrior-Eunuchs who can kill them with one wave.

As for the argument of cruelty, I cite one of the most realistic and logical people in Academia: Frederick Nietsche:

"That Which Does Not Kill Us Makes Us Stronger."

In conflict, we build character. Warrior societies (fictitious or otherwise) such as Sparta, The Klingon Empire, Wulin (Warrior China), Saiyajins, Celts and Yautja (Predators) are strong as a whole for they allow ANYONE and EVERYONE to grow if they have courage and strength of character.

An idealized democratic warrior state allows EVERYONE to pursue their dreams, and EVERYONE is made stronger in the process. This is NOT to say that the weak is to be treated with contempt, but that the strong are obligated and bound by honor to PROTECT AND LOVE those who are not as fortunate as they, and GIVE THEIR LIVES if necessary in their duty of defence.

In the case of this world, if such a warrior state is the governmental norm, then wars costing the lives of thousands would become sad past myths, as matters of politics and honor are literally resolved between the powers, in single combat, without the tragic collateral loss of non-combatants that vehicles and explosives have an uncomfortable tendncy of causing.

Will think over it more in sleep. :O

Pazu

2005-12-23, 10:27

Really? I dunno, it looks as she noticed that Arika was feeling rather sad about her grandma and wanted to distract her.

she could kill two birds with one stone.
we are talking about Shizuru here :)

Diodati

2005-12-23, 11:03

You are incorrect here, what, exactly, is the definition of a nice person, in a, for example, totalitarian state? ....Because the very basis of these kinds of government is that the leaders are not 'nice' people. Why? Because they cannot even win an election, so instead they decide to rule a country under a form that prevents freedom of thought, and all similar freedoms
What's a definition of a 'nice' person period!? 'Moral' people? Because that's a different thing.

Even if you don't go by authoritarian states, politicians aren't effective through being 'nice', because being 'nice' is purely subjective opinion. Plus it really depends on what people deem an effective government: you can take Soviet Russia - those who followed Stalin were far 'nicer', but the country's economic, social or political system hardly worked well. And only Stalin really attained economic growth himself.

I do think this will tie in with Natsuki; her own system is already beginning to show the strain, and she herself is 'nice' - but sometimes that doesn't prevent what she represents from having people suffer. Just like Mashiro was in complete ignorance of people living in slums, and deep down we know Mashiro isn't a bad person either. And the Otome system may prevent thousands of deaths, but it also pinions entire countries on Natsuki's school and her pupils (as well as her hoarding technology and other means of power-enforcing). And I'm not sure that is a very effective system either, and she seems to know it. Away from the 'obvious' names and the authoritarian states, 'nice' and 'not-nice' aren't really terms that hold much water - there are two sides to every coin.

Hmm, I'm not ready to say that I think Arika is Rena's daughter. We haven't been given any SOLID evidence so far, I mean, evidence that would stand up in court.

Are you trying to insinuate my pics aren't solid proof?!

:)

I had a feeling that she was
doing it to stop Natsuki thinking about *something*. It was clear that Natsuki and
Sergey didn't like each other, and the reason was probably events in their past.
It could be Mai 'between' them
Apart from the first few episodes, there hasn't really been a recurrent theme of Natsuki/Sergei animosity. I think she simply doesn't like his presence if she thinks he's going to interfere, which at the beginning it looked like he and Nagi would be doing. They seem to get on okay now...

Preston

2005-12-23, 12:24

What's a definition of a 'nice' person period!? 'Moral' people? Because that's a different thing.

EXACTLY!! I have yet to read the rest of your post, but this was exactly what I was thinking. I was going to say it, but I've used the argument before, and so added to it a little. I was going to say that what was 'nice' was influened entirely by those in power, and so it is a very inaccurate a statement is to say that any type of government works if it is run by 'nice' people. The citizens might not think they are not 'nice' people, but for all intents and purposes, the leaders are the ones in control, and can decide who is 'nice' or not. 'Nice' is an opinion. Something unreliable. And like all opinions, the ones that matter are those that belong to powerful people.

Edit: Read the first, for the largest part, I agree, and I have nothing more to say than that. You have very similar ideas about it to myself.

Are you trying to insinuate my pics aren't solid proof?!

:)

Oh noes! I wouldn't dare! But, seriously, I just think its a red herring. Complete chance. Where did she genetically get her hair colour from? I guess all will come out when we learn of the father..

atua

2005-12-23, 12:32

The whole discussion on potential political systems of the Otome universe is pretty interesting... here's my 2 cents on the matter. :D

From what I can see, the status quo that Natsuki is trying to maintain:

Has shifted the price of war from the general populace and its armies onto the otome and their master. At first glance, this seems like an improvement since fewer people will die if war breaks out, but this solution has effectively created an entrenched class of ruling elites (ie master/otomes vs everyone else).
Concentrating all political & technological power in the hands of the few means each member carries a much heavier responsibility in the event that things go wrong.
Thus the "price" for having fewer deaths is that the global political system is now much more brittle and less flexible. This "peace" is a fragile, uneasy one and the system is less able to recover from unexpected or catastrophic events, due to its lack of redundancy and over reliance on a few key players. For example, if a particular country has no otome, or if that country's otome is unable or unwilling to defend its country for whatever reason, that country is basically screwed. Rogue otomes can also do a lot of damage. Basically, you're relying on the masters & otomes to "play nice".
Not only has political power been concentrated, technology too is now basically confined to Windbloom and Garderobe. The fruits of this technological advantage is that people in Windbloom live at a much higher standard of living than the rest of the world. The fortunes of much of the other countries in he Otome universe seems to be incline; for example, Nagi's Artai was said to be a poor country, Arika's reaction on first arrival to Windbloom suggests that she too come from a less advanced country. Naturally, this disparity can lead to fear, resentment and jealousy.
Concentration of power has often led to cronyism, incompetence and corruption.
Putting all these points together, the current political situation is basically a powder keg. An opportunistic and ambitious leader looking to settle a score or advance his country's interests at the expense of another is just the type of spark that can set this house of cards on fire.

Having said all that, it's difficult to come up with a better system. But regardless of what ends up replacing the current system it should be one that allows for strong decisive leadership but is still flexible enough to allow for graceful degradation in the face of unexpected events. Any realistic system shouldn't have to rely on a minority to function, and have a series of checks and balances to deal with undesirable elements.

Xellos-_^

2005-12-23, 12:46

PastPrime

2005-12-23, 12:48

Tempest35

2005-12-23, 12:53

Well, let's not down the system entirely now. It was a good idea in the beginning right after the War of the Dragon King some 50 years prior. Their mistake was keeping a system that should have been only temporary in its duration. This is the same situation that arose out of Gundam Wing but now, will the Otome be 'forced' to give up their power for the sake of world peace?
I have a feeling that the Shinsou Shrine holds the answer. Just like there was that HiME Shrine beneath Fuuka Academy, the Otome Shrine holds darker secrets that I can't even speculate on right now.

As for Natsuki vs Sergey, I don't think it's annimosity at all - they are just too alike when it comes to political manuvers. They ask questions and corrected Arika simultaneously at least twice so far - that kind of snyc comes from just knowing a person. Sergey knows that Natsuki's very smart and will use every advantage she can get her hands on for her benefit and Natsuki knows that Sergey will do the same - he's a normal person admist nearly 80+ high powered females - he HAS to use every advantage and that includes Nina, which Natsuki is probably well aware of the potential that entails. They are very intelligent but can annoy the hell out of the other, yet they don't 'hate' each other or even dislike. They are 'political rivals' and nothing more - if they were friendlier, they would be a nightmarish political 'Power Couple' to try and go up against. ^^;
When Arika told them that her mother was supposedly Otome, they both jumped on the ball immediately and exchanged a glance that was NOT filled with annimosity whatsoever - it was just a very serious glance and both of them could tell what the other was thinking.

Guido

2005-12-23, 13:05

Pop-culture reference.

"You won. All right? You came in, and you killed them, and you took their land. That’s what conquering nations do. That’s what Caesar did, and he’s not going around saying ‘I came, I conquered, I felt really bad about it.’ The history of the world is not people making friends. You had better weapons and you massacred them. End of story.”
-Spike, BTVS S4 EP8

In short synthesis about the war policy of Mai-Otome's World:

Nanomachines + GEMs + Contract bound to Master = Otome

Conqueror Leaders: GEM contract + Otome = Tool to Exert Power

Xellos-_^

2005-12-23, 13:08

I am beginning to think that those in charge of Garderobe 14 years ago were also involved in the raid. Not by actively participating, but by not taking any action to stop it. If Shizuru could act to save Mashiro then they could have acted to save the King and Queen. I don't think that the raid would have happened if they had not agreed not to interfere. It is likely that whatever was being planned in the Castle was considered a threat by all three groups.

I always wonder why the Otomes forms the School didn't interfer when the attack happen. You gotta wonder what heck they were doing 14 years ago to warrent this kind of response. Especially since both Black Valley and Akatsuki(sp?) doesn't seem like open confrontation type.

atua

2005-12-23, 13:08

Here is my take polictical systems. In theory any system will work as long as you have "good" people running it. However humans being humans, someone will always feels like they deserve more or that they know better then anyone else and they do whatever they have to, to upset the status quote and thats when things will go downhill.

the problem isn't in the system, it is the people thats the problem.

Any system that solely relies on "good" people is doomed to failure, given a long enough time period. A good system is one that's designed with human failings in mind, and not give any one person or minority undue power. Or at least have a process in place to fix mistakes when they, inevitably, get made. "Upsetting" the status quo isn't always a bad thing either. Sometimes it's a mistake, but only through change can growth and progress be made.

Xellos-_^

2005-12-23, 13:11

Any system that solely relies on "good" people is doomed to failure, given a long enough time period. A good system will be one that takes human failings into account, and not give any one person or minority undue power. Or at least have a built-in way to fix mistakes when they, inevitably, get made.

But there is no such system. Every system we have so assume that the people running it are at the very least decent people.

USCPharmacist

2005-12-23, 13:17

Even assume there are nice people, they are probably the worse kind of people to keep bad people away from corrupting everying and lazy poeple from getting off their butts to fish for their own food. Being nice is not really a good indication of popularity amoung the "imperfect" masses, nor effectiveness in governing ...J$mmy cough...Cart#$..

On the other hand, society is an inherently unstable thing becuase it requires rules and order to work, yet humans have or fancy themselves to have free wills. It's very hard to build a political system that balance this dynamic equlibrium. Right now Democracy works rather well, but it has many flaws. Case in point, the lower socioecononic class can vote to get a raise without producing any resource to comensate their raisees, in other words, redistrubuting income. Before you accuse me imcompassionate, I must point out that nature itself is imcompassionate. There is only a finite amount of resources, and the poors are not any less greedy than the richs for this limited resources. A point will reach when the shit hit the fan where the "richs" will fight the poor for they can no longer pull the wagon full of freeloaders, wether the freeloaders deserve it or not. Democracy doesn't have a fool prove system to fight against it yet.

But I digress because this is an otome thread. I think Natsuki is really in a bin here. She tries hard to be the falcom point of the world, but if the United Nation can't do it (did a rather poor job I might add, but not entirely useless despite what the radio talk show hosts have you believe), poor little biker chick Natsuki sure have a lot of problem. Natsuki does not have absolute power, nor does she desire such power. I think she purposely want it that way to maintain balance, and I applaude her sacrified. On the other hand, I think without Shizuru ruthlessness and "para-moral" intelligent :heh: she will have a hard time handling all the bad guys. Too bad Shizuru doesn't care a rat ass about us average Joe.

From earilier episodes, Natsuki hinted that she was doing something the other would not want. I think she was sliping slowly away from being the true falcom point and tried to secretly impose her visions to the world. Shizuru knew this and would support her all the way unless it wouldl bring harm to Natsuki. Yes I think Shizuru lies to Natsuki in that she would stand by Natsuki as a person, not Natsuki the ideal. I see a bitter betrayal of vision and life, love and duty. But unlike Mai which seemed to have chosen the nice guy escape path, Shizuru will chose the f#$% you, psycho b@#$# path that all her fans expected :heh:. I can't wait for some shit hiting fan moment.

Now let's talk about Mai. So she fell in love but didn't want to lose the ability to be confused amoung planes and birds by pedestrians, huh? :heh: I wonder if our SirGAY Wang has anything to do with it, dispite his name suggested otherwise. Did she die? Did she ran away in exile like she has the leprosy? Did Shizuru offed her in the final showdown between Gay and Striaght:heh: :heh: :heh: j/k man. I think Natsuki knew something but not the whole truth. On the other hand I think Shizuru and Maria might know everything but didn't tell Natsuki. Don't ask me why, though, its just a hunch...or bias, I just don't think Sunrise would pass up making Shizuru a psycho villain again, and to finally put the age old question to rest...who would win in a fight? Psycho Mai vs Psycho Shizuru...Although Mai in the fan disc said she'll not be Kira II, we'll have to wait and see how much truth she was allowed to "shpill" by Sunrise.

Guido

2005-12-23, 13:23

Any theocracy, totalitarianism, democracy, or other political/social structure system or society is bound to failure, if there's no internal conflict within it.

Let's face for once and for all: People are humans; Human beings make quite lot of big mistakes that does sh*t happening; therefore, we'll always screw up or never make things work out ideal or absolute at all because we're imperfect.

People had always dreamt, envisioned, and wrote books about the perfect utopia.

But getting a reality check, that's nothing more just a sweet, fairy-tale that's never going to happen.

(We) Humans (homo sapiens) are such complicated creatures conflicted everyday between our sense of logic, our primal instincts, the system responsible to condition our set of moral principles and values.

Humans do not see themselves as a group or whole entity, rather individuals with different sets of needs and wants varying from one to each other.

To certain extent that realization seems to apply in the Mai-Otome universe.

The nobility, the monarchs, and military activists see the Otome as warfare weapons of massive destruction power not as human beings.

The people from each country view the Otome as saviors or warriors of the nation but do so because bound to contract for their respective masters, but fail to realize that they are just human beings like themselves that also have wishes and personal dreams to think about.

Once the master sets his/her mind, then the Otomes choice are definitely cut.

atua

2005-12-23, 13:34

But there is no such system. Every system we have so assume that the people running it are at the very least decent people.

I'm not trying to say that there's some "perfect", silver bullet system out there, just that the status quo doesn't seem to be working in the Otome universe. The current system is not ideal because it's such an "all or nothing" proposition, even given that all the otomes we've seen so far are decent, honorable and competent people.

As far as we've seen, apart from the 5 pillars, master/otome is a one-to-one relationship. Should anything happen to the otome, not only have you lost a powerful defender to your country, you've lost your political leader as well. That's a very devastating blow to any country.

Even if you've just lost an otome (without losing her master) due to other reasons, like with Rena, the only "solution" is by sponsoring and training another otome, which will take years. Not exactly ideal, since having no otome leaves a country pretty vulnerable. Having "reserve" otome is a possible solution, but also creates other problems. How would you handle having a bunch of potential "nuclear" weapons running around your country?

Basically, I'm saying that the current situation is bad bacause you're putting all your eggs in one basket, and just praying that nothing goes wrong.

Glass Cannon

2005-12-23, 13:37

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but

What's with this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/lain8/vlcsnap-5559207.jpg

Xellos-_^

2005-12-23, 14:01

I'm not trying to say that there's some "perfect", silver bullet system out there, just that the status quo doesn't seem to be working in the Otome universe. The current system is not ideal because it's such an "all or nothing" proposition, even given that all the otomes we've seen so far are decent, honorable and competent people.

As far as we've seen, apart from the 5 pillars, master/otome is a one-to-one relationship. Should anything happen to the otome, not only have you lost a powerful defender to your country, you've lost your political leader as well. That's a very devastating blow to any country.

Even if you've just lost an otome (without losing her master) due to other reasons, like with Rena, the only "solution" is by sponsoring and training another otome, which will take years. Not exactly ideal, since having no otome leaves a country pretty vulnerable. Having "reserve" otome is a possible solution, but also creates other problems. How would you handle having a bunch of potential "nuclear" weapons running around your country?

Basically, I'm saying that the current situation is bad bacause you're putting all your eggs in one basket, and just praying that nothing goes wrong.

I am not saying the current otome system is ideal, but whats the alternative and is that alternative any better? Any alternative has probalby just as many problems. Different problems but problems will still be there.

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but

What's with this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/lain8/vlcsnap-5559207.jpg

So Nina and Irina did fusion :p

ranchan13

2005-12-23, 14:02

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but

What's with this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/lain8/vlcsnap-5559207.jpg
Genetic engineering breakthrough, we've successfully crossed the DNA of Nina Wong and Erina Woods to create Ernina Woongs

USCPharmacist

2005-12-23, 14:02

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but

What's with this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/lain8/vlcsnap-5559207.jpg

ZOMG That's Arika Grandma!!!!! :heh: :heh: :heh: ok I must admit I forget my medication today....

ranchan13

2005-12-23, 14:22

Arika was unbelievably ill-suited for the role heh, and I was very happy to see Nina play along in with the charade; the nudges and punches were very comedic. Mashiro I thought was very adorable, bless her, it's obvious that she matured considerably over the course of the episode. The shot where Akira whips out Takumi's medication as great - how Nina did the 'custom' and Arika just stood there like a dork until Nina put her hand on her head. That was cute.

And I agree very much with what Takumi says at the end, and I think deep down Natsuki must, surely. They have a 'good selection' process?! I'm not so sure - they recruit girls at an age where they won't really understand the whole commitment and effects of being an Otome - they may think they do, but come on. I quite like the idea that Mai became disgruntled and couldn't bear the pressure or something similar. It really highlights the problems of the Otome structure, in the same manner Akane will show next episode. As well as all the power-bias Garderobe has for being 'the only school for Otome' etc.

And whilst Mashiro really looked like her HiME counterpart, Arika to state the obvious, positively screams...
RENAAAAAAAAA this episode, it's becoming more and more gradual, I thought so on the trip. But now, make the hair brown and it would be a young Rena. Even if this is one big fat red herring, I can't understand why there would be so many physical parallels if they weren't related - unless it's to make Nina more paranoid...

Pardon me while I borrow your pics here

http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/3480/arikarenaalike8bm.jpg
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Mai-Otome/Mai-Otome%20-%2012%20-%2010.jpg

After taking a closer look at Mashiro, Rena, and Arika, it almost looks like Mashiro and Arika could be sisters. With her hair down, Arika definately looks more like Rena, and Mashiro, but at the same time, hair color aside, doesn't Mashiro resemble Rena as well?

USCPharmacist

2005-12-23, 14:32

No I think is bottle neck effect, I meant 6 men with one woman ....oh wrong show :heh: :heh:

Xellos-_^

2005-12-23, 14:33

No I think is bottle neck effect, I meant 6 men with one woman ....oh wrong show :heh: :heh:

do we want to know what show it is :eyebrow:

Catgirls

2005-12-23, 14:34

do we want to know what show it is :eyebrow:We do not.

scribbly

2005-12-23, 15:19

After taking a closer look at Mashiro, Rena, and Arika, it almost looks like Mashiro and Arika could be sisters. With her hair down, Arika definately looks more like Rena, and Mashiro, but at the same time, hair color aside, doesn't Mashiro resemble Rena as well?[/spoiler]

Indeed Mashiro and Arika look quite alike. (Begin current theory) I am starting to think that they are twins, where one was sent to be raised outside the spoils of the castle (mashiro) and the other was raised within. When they lost the one inside the castle (arika) they went to get the other one (mashiro). So I think Arika will end up being an otohime (乙姫) in the youngest hime sense of the word as well as otome. But then that raises the "why does arika look so darn much like rena" question again... (end current theory) Or something like that.

Preston

2005-12-23, 15:23

Rakshasa

2005-12-23, 16:00

The "Utopia" in question is undeniably violent; the very term defines an ideal society, not necessarily peaceful.
The "very term" you use originally meant a place that does not exist. Which is currently often used to describe a place that are not practical possible, although very ideal.

Befgrek

2005-12-23, 17:32

As a Mashiro fan, this episode was slightly painful. It really did a good job bringing up all her flaws. The "then why don't they eat candy!"-thing almost killed me. Partly because I laughed from the absurdity and because I got the historical reference, but also because it painfully reminded me of how incredibly naive she is.

Good thing these events possibly will result in her really thinking over what it relly means to be a queen, and it will most likely make her both a better person and a better ruler. Because behind that selfish and bratty exterior is actually a caring and good person hidden. Hopefully.

Anyway, it was a good episode. Good balance between humor, plot-development and a little action. Not as good as episode 7, but above average, I'd say.

Also, was it just me, or did Mai and Natsuki look awfully young in that picture? At least younger than Arika and Nina does, in my opinion.

Akuma-sama

2005-12-23, 17:35

With all this talk of politics here, I just wonder what the Japanese are talking about.

The Otomes, in this case, are not something to exploit, but a force in themselves. Once an Otome graduates to meister and is given a master, they can no longer be classed in the 'Otome' group. They then belong to the group, whatever it may be, that the country they are working for is in, whether they like it or not.

The only people that can be classed in the Otome group, from this point of view of war, are the Otomes without such strong ties to a country. You might argue that no matter the level, an Otome will have to fight for the country they are from, but there is nothing to stop them going.. wild. They still have a choice in that matter, I can swap sides. It would be an excellent thing to take up, since seizing the Otome school IS going to be high on the agenda of all other sides. With the control of the school, essentially comes the control of the Otomes.

Ok, first:
"Wild" Otomes, as you say, can't exist, because Otomes either have masters (and thus, 'belong' to a country), or are Pillars and are therefore forced to remain in Garderobe. A Pearl or a Coral running away from school can't materialize without help from one of the Pillars (I assume), and the only way to break a contract with their master is either to have the master offed, to off herself (neither of which are good ideas as they have the same double-sparkly result), or to do Randy McRabbit's dance with a guy, at which point she stops being an Otome.

Second, taking over Garderobe would mean having to fight the 5 Pillars to do it. I'm pretty sure we can be certain the 5 pillars aren't just the strongest Otomes, they are the strongest by a LOT, so it would take a lot of sacrifices to take the school.
Never mind that, in a situation like that, the students might join in.

Slaves can defeat conventional weaponry easily. Otomes SMASH through Slaves like so much tissue paper. Only Otomes can beat Otomes.

On the contrary, I find this social order to be quite solid, "Forces Otomes" (Erstin, Akane) excluded (because they will lose the title as soon as they can).

The question I'm asking is: what do you do with the girls who fail to become Pearls/Meisters? I mean, they still have nanomachines...
I'm thinking they inject that part of sperm that makes Nanomachines suffer the blue screen, but... um... eww?
Failing that, they take back the uniform and throw the girl in that "Backstage" store...
:uhoh:
:heh:

Never mind :eyespin:

Tempest35

2005-12-23, 17:45

*laughs* all hail the power of the writers at Sunrise! Look at this, nearly 3 entire pages dedicated to different political systems in which Otome can exist, the conflicts that arise because of the crumbling political structures that exist in the anime right now, and how best to fixt it!

All this information being thrown around by people you wouldn't think twice about if you met them on the street, the debates that rage on inside these forums with views and ideals more varied than in any debate I've had to sit through (Or C-SPAN for that matter, bleah). I've never felt prouder to be an anime fan! v ^o^ v

I swear, anime fans make some of the better debaters, in my humble opinion.

okay, back to the topic...

If they try to take over the school, they've got hell to cross before that. Not only will the remaining Pillars who are still out not come out, but every other nation will mobilize against it. It's like playing 'King of the Hill' with a bunch of 14-17 year old girls and their power. And when you become King, you become the #1 target for everyone else.
I'm just saying that whoever aspires to conquer Guaderobe will have to conslidate power and quickly (within a matter of hours really just in case another country follows up) and that might have to do with the Harmonium and the Blue Star.

As for 'Wild' Otome, that's probably another reason why the Pillars exist - to stop any Meister who tries to use her own power for her own reasons. Mai is gone but since she's keeping a low profile, they can't even find her to send anyone after her. I wouldn't imagine that someone as potentially powerful as Mai Tokiha will be left alone to her own devices willingly, despite pressure from Natsuki.

The thing is, if one wants peace, one will have to 'destroy' war itself and not just the instruments of war either (Slaves, Otome, Childs), you'd have to destroy the human desire for conflict, as well fear. That is very damn near impossible for anyone to manage and it hasn't been done in all of history (that I'm aware of anyway). A good start to the 'peace' that everyone wants is to destroy Guaderobe for good and in effect, all nano-tech involved with Otome. But that's not gonna happen since there's always someone who's 'afraid' of being attacked so they'll gather up rocks. Everyone else will be 'afraid' of that person because now he has weapons and can hurt them...so on and so forth.

It's kinda sad, but Arika might have to give up her dream of becoming an Otome if she really wants her dream of no wars. ^^ And no, being the impartial 3rd party with the big stick isn't gonna work - someone will always get a bigger stick or get more people than you can handle.

Tempest35

2005-12-23, 17:45

Sorry, got 'mouse trigger happy' there. Gomen ne

Befgrek

2005-12-23, 17:47

coefficientX

2005-12-23, 17:52

coefficientX

2005-12-23, 18:41

The preview for episode 13 is quite cute. :p It goes like this...

SPOILER(?) ALERT
Preview Convo for episode.13 「茜色の空に…」

Takumi: That's great, we have a chance to show up too.
Akira: I don't like it, why am I your subordinate?
Takumi: Isn't that good? I'll always be Akira-kun's captive.
Akira: ba...baka!
Akane: Still as loving as ever neh...
Takumi: I don't want to be told that by you, Akane-san.
Akane: yee-hiaaah *shy laughter*

:p

Oh and Nao is getting more and more kewl lol... Her convo with Akane is interesting. :p

Akane: With Nao-chan your abilities, being his (Takumi's) otome is nothing to you.
Nao (award winning speech): Please spare me, i don't want to be remained as a virgin forever just to guard a country. It is better to find a rich and young master. After that I can be free of problems and troubles. This is my policy of life. Ah~ The rich prince from Cardia might be suitable!
Akane: Ehhh! You can't! Kazu-kun is...
Nao: Just joking... Mah, you've also aware not to lose otome's powers on a moment of impulse.
*Akane blushed*

Hehe...Nao is really earning alot of points from me. *I'm still faithful to my Shizuru-sama RAWWWR* Although it's a casual convo, it seems like Nao knows whatever is happening. And is quite concerned about Akane imo. ;) Juliet Nao Zhang is smart, composed and resourceful. A very great level-up from Yuuki Nao. :eyespin:

ArchDragon

2005-12-23, 19:13

I don't know if this has been mentioned but the Mai x Sergay speculation is wrong. :p

Takumi told Natsuki that his trip to Windbloom is neither searching for an otome nor for matchmaking. He informed Natsuki that Jipang will remain in the non-interference position of whatever the western countries do. And for this reason, he has sent out envoys to many countries to inform them of this decision. What Sergay received, should be the letter meant for Artai. Not letter for/from Mai. :p

You forgot one thing, Sergay is NOT the ruler of Artai.
Any such envoy/letter will go Nagi's way.

That aside, it's still possible that Mai's love interest is still Yuuichi, who will be introduced later.
Though having both Yuuichi and Sergay in the same universe is totally wrong.

If Sergay is indeed the Otome universe's Yuuichi, then he must have improved exponentially.
Especially in the girl getting department.

atua

2005-12-23, 19:21

I am not saying the current otome system is ideal, but whats the alternative and is that alternative any better? Any alternative has probalby just as many problems. Different problems but problems will still be there.

Certainly all systems have their faults, but not all of them will result in a spectacular systemic breakdown that the current one surely will.

"Wild" Otomes, as you say, can't exist, because Otomes either have masters (and thus, 'belong' to a country), or are Pillars and are therefore forced to remain in Garderobe. A Pearl or a Coral running away from school can't materialize without help from one of the Pillars (I assume), and the only way to break a contract with their master is either to have the master offed, to off herself (neither of which are good ideas as they have the same double-sparkly result), or to do Randy McRabbit's dance with a guy, at which point she stops being an Otome.

Second, taking over Garderobe would mean having to fight the 5 Pillars to do it. I'm pretty sure we can be certain the 5 pillars aren't just the strongest Otomes, they are the strongest by a LOT, so it would take a lot of sacrifices to take the school.
Never mind that, in a situation like that, the students might join in.

I don't think that death or hetero-sex are the only ways to break a contract. Natsuki, Shizuru and even Ms Maria's actions suggests otherwise. The answer likely exists in that Shinso-tomb room. Even if those were the only ways, that still won't prevent rogue otomes from appearing; the loss of their own life and the life of their master only work as deterrants assuming that they care about either. The rogue may believe that their "cause" is more important than any 2 lives.

As for taking over Garderobe, I think it's more likely that any "takeovers" will happen on a political level or through proxies. For example, Nagi scheming to marry Mashiro for Windbloom's technology, and then gunning for Garderobe using 3rd parties like Aswalde & the Black Letter guys.

*laughs* all hail the power of the writers at Sunrise! Look at this, nearly 3 entire pages dedicated to different political systems in which Otome can exist, the conflicts that arise because of the crumbling political structures that exist in the anime right now, and how best to fixt it!

I honestly think you give them too much credit. After all the anime I've seen with lousy plot holes and unexplained backgrounds, I tend to think that fans think a lot more about any given anime universe than the writers. ;)

coefficientX

2005-12-23, 19:31

You forgot one thing, Sergay is NOT the ruler of Artai.
Any such envoy/letter will go Nagi's way.
Being the duke doesn't mean that he should go through such letters personally. Isn't reading such letters more of a Major's job? Such small stuffs can simply be done by your immediate subordinate (in this case Sergay). Most of the time, we see Sergay going through politcal stuffs in office while Nagi only listens to reports. Besides the screen pans to Sergay at the moment when Takumi mentioned that he sent out letters to those countries about Jipang's decisions.

Anime Adoru

2005-12-23, 19:52

I'm experimenting with blogging styles. Just tried a new one for Episode 12, see http://adoru.wordpress.com. Let me know what you think!

ArchDragon

2005-12-23, 20:11

Being the duke doesn't mean that he should go through such letters personally. Isn't reading such letters more of a Major's job? Such small stuffs can simply be done by your immediate subordinate (in this case Sergay). Most of the time, we see Sergay going through politcal stuffs in office while Nagi only listens to reports. Besides the screen pans to Sergay at the moment when Takumi mentioned that he sent out letters to those countries about Jipang's decisions.

It's certainly possible that the letter is relayed through Sergay.
Though considering it's importance, it should've been delivered directly to Artai's ruler.
* edit * A major isn't that high of a rank in the military hierarchy, unless Artai has no generals.

Either way, it's not enough to prove or debunk that Sergay is Mai's love interest.
So far, however, most returning chars from HiME retains their SO's, if they had one.
So if Yuuichi doesn't exist in the Otome universe, Sergay is it.
And I personally think it would be extremely illogical for Sergay and Yuuichi to co-exist considering their similarities.
Unless Sunrise is planning to introduce them as twins/siblings, who got separated for some reason.

himalayan

2005-12-23, 22:09

my take is that there is a tate-version in mo. god save the babies.

coefficientX

2005-12-23, 22:21

I'm experimenting with blogging styles. Just tried a new one for Episode 12, see http://adoru.wordpress.com. Let me know what you think!
Nice attempt^^

Either way, it's not enough to prove or debunk that Sergay is Mai's love interest.
Yeah there might be a chance that Sergay is Mai's love interest but so far there is not the slightest hint about that. We shall see... :p
What i'm trying to say, is that the Mai x Sergay speculation from judging that letter is wrong. :uhoh:

Pffft... i can't wait to see who almost hurt my Shizuru-sama's face. 5th Jan is too loooooong lol. So addicted to this anime. :(

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-23, 22:34

One more thing... If Mai was Sergay's new crush after Rena, wouldn't Nina notice it by now?

Because so far, Nina still believe Rena is the true competion for Sergay's affections. Would Sergay have been able to hide love for Mai this long? After all, he would most certainly have done something that gave away his feelings, if Nina's living with him all this 7 years...

Dagger

2005-12-23, 22:46

If Mai loved Sergay, it's possible that her love was totally or mostly unrequited...

Tempest35

2005-12-23, 22:48

Maybe Nina hasn't found the photo album set with Mai in it. :p

Xellos-_^

2005-12-23, 23:19

Maybe Nina hasn't found the photo album set with Mai in it. :p

Are you suggesting those are "special" :naughty: pics that Sergy keeps under his bed :D

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-23, 23:47

If Mai loved Sergay, it's possible that her love was totally or mostly unrequited...
Good point. Though in that case, won't she be less angry at the Gardrobe Otome system? Why would she throw a fit and quit her job for love if she had no chance either way?

NaNash|

2005-12-24, 00:01

I'm experimenting with blogging styles. Just tried a new one for Episode 12, see http://adoru.wordpress.com. Let me know what you think!

I totally agree with you on the point that Zipang need a fashion designer.

NaNash|

2005-12-24, 00:05

Note from your picture, that Arika has Rena's eyes...

Then again, Nina has Sergay's eyes too. I will stop here.:D

Hmmm, 14/15 years ago, Sergey was juz a 12 to 14 year old kid. How the hell can he fathered Arika with Rena? If he can, he must be sexually super pre-matured.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-24, 00:10

I totally agree with you on the point that Zipang need a fashion designer.
The banana hat I could live with, since all ceremonial crowns are suppose to be silly looking to my eyes anyway. But Akira's face-mask looks like it was purchased from a discount halloween supply store for children's parties, sold for 10 cents a dozen.

Akira's battle costume is the first genuine fashion-disaster so far. I hope they won't have any more of those...:heh:

Hmmm, 14/15 years ago, Sergey was juz a 12 to 14 year old kid. How the hell can he fathered Arika with Rena? If he can, he must be sexually super pre-matured.
To be precise, he was turning 12. RL record for the youngest father in our world is a 12 year old boy.

ox2

2005-12-24, 00:10

Ok, first:
"Wild" Otomes, as you say, can't exist, because Otomes either have masters (and thus, 'belong' to a country), or are Pillars and are therefore forced to remain in Garderobe. A Pearl or a Coral running away from school can't materialize without help from one of the Pillars (I assume), and the only way to break a contract with their master is either to have the master offed, to off herself (neither of which are good ideas as they have the same double-sparkly result), or to do Randy McRabbit's dance with a guy, at which point she stops being an Otome.

Second, taking over Garderobe would mean having to fight the 5 Pillars to do it. I'm pretty sure we can be certain the 5 pillars aren't just the strongest Otomes, they are the strongest by a LOT, so it would take a lot of sacrifices to take the school.
Never mind that, in a situation like that, the students might join in.

Slaves can defeat conventional weaponry easily. Otomes SMASH through Slaves like so much tissue paper. Only Otomes can beat Otomes.

On the contrary, I find this social order to be quite solid, "Forces Otomes" (Erstin, Akane) excluded (because they will lose the title as soon as they can).

The question I'm asking is: what do you do with the girls who fail to become Pearls/Meisters? I mean, they still have nanomachines...
I'm thinking they inject that part of sperm that makes Nanomachines suffer the blue screen, but... um... eww?
Failing that, they take back the uniform and throw the girl in that "Backstage" store...
:uhoh:
:heh:

Never mind :eyespin:

WTF?!?! :heh: dude thats thinking way out there, they probably have some kind of anti-agent that can make the nanomachines dormant...or take away the GEM if i recall (correct me if i'm wrong) they cant access their robes without it so hence they'd be pretty much harmless figuratively speaking.

Timeless Enigma

2005-12-24, 00:37

I think they were trying to recapture the Sailor V/Tuxedo Kamen nostalgia and b0tch'd. :heh:

ox2

2005-12-24, 00:42

I think they were trying to recapture the Sailor V/Tuxedo Kamen nostalgia and b0tch'd. :heh:

yeah i guess so:cool:,but i think the sailor moon V/Tuxedo Kamen was a bit worse

Kieli

2005-12-24, 02:21

There is one thing that seems to be nagging at the back of my mind, politics-wise in regards to Mashiro and her rule of Windbloom. She was only crowned recently and usually a regent is named to rule the kingdom in the stead of an underaged hereditary ruler. My questions are: Who was that regent? Was Windbloom ruled by a Council of Regents instead of one particular person? And since Mashiro seems to be merely rubber stamping documentation instead of actually reading it, I am guessing she's not been schooled in the ways of statecraft, politics, languages, etc. as a normal nobleman/noblewoman that is in line for the throne would have been.

So this begs the question: does the regent (s) know where the REAL ruler is? If so, then that would explain Mashiro's hideous ignorance of the goings on in her kingdom. If the regent does know that then I am assuming that person is the one with real power. As it stands, Windbloom seems on the verge of a civil war with just the right event to set it off. There is apparently a very wide demarcation line between the haves and have nots, as Takumi from Zipang pointed out so astutely. If he could understand this in a matter of hours, then Mashiro's rule is in trouble.

Nagi's plan may to be to create anarchy, have his army march in and take over under the guise of assisting the throne of Windbloom, then in one fell swoop marry the Queen, take control of technology and crown himself King. Not bad.

Preston

2005-12-24, 03:40

Ok, first:
"Wild" Otomes, as you say, can't exist..

One word: Aswald. Man, you are jumping to conclusions way to fast here, hasn't it occured to you that if an Otome wanted to go deserter then all they would have to do was find someone with the technolodgy to reverse any of the downfalls of the Otome nanos. Of course, if they had a master it would already be to late, but I think for the rest of the Otomes, they can switch sides any time, should they know of who to go to and not mind have unreliable make-shift technolodgy implanted into them.

Second, taking over Garderobe would mean having to fight the 5 Pillars to do it. I'm pretty sure we can be certain the 5 pillars aren't just the strongest Otomes, they are the strongest by a LOT, so it would take a lot of sacrifices to take the school.
Never mind that, in a situation like that, the students might join in.

Ok, I also doubt the pillars are the strongest people out there, since if Midori can just walk in with what looked to be a mass-produced gem, and hold off Shizuru, who is supposed to be one of your top pillars, then I reccon with the top of the Aswalds tech, Midori could take Shizuru and just about anyone that stood in her way. And this is ignoring the fact that there are going to be a lot of other people where Midori came from. And, finally, is there any evidence to show that pillars are uncorruptable? I think Shizuru is a candidate for that.

Ok, time to finish reading your post and the others here.

Only Otomes can beat Otomes.

Ok, you did see episode 10 with Midori, right? She is no Otome, and if she kept going, Haruka would have been KIA.

*laughs* all hail the power ....

Ah, (refering to your entire post, simply edited to save space) too true. I agree, except with the fact that deserting the Otomes isn't as hard as it is made out to be. If you suddenly do a runner they can't catch you if you cover it up, and sure, you can't use your powers because you have no-one to activate you, so, what do you do? You find and join the group with the work-around, they guys that know the loop-hole in the system.

I also believe taking the school is not going to be as hard as many of you think. I expect it could be taken within a few hours, a sudden rush with the people that can take meisters obviously have to exist, otherwise there would be little point in Sunrise starting up a war in the series, only to have it crushed effortlessly by a bunch of super-Otomes.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-24, 03:55

Preston

2005-12-24, 04:09

The Aswards are far from able to master Otome technology. What makes you think it is easy to have Pillar level self activation while maintaining Otome level power?

Midori can barely defend herself for more than 5 minutes, so you are assuming that they already have the means to make an Otome master-free as long as they have an otome? Impossible, because Aswards have allied with at least one kingdom, and they would know as much about normal Otome nano-machines as they could get by now. Pillar-level freedom is classified.

Right now, master-free non-pillar Otomes (or equivalent power units) don't exist for Shwartz OR Aswarld. Who knows with future developments, but at the moment they don't.

Please don't assume that it is easy for an Otome to go rouge. It's the whole point of the Gardrobe system that each Otome is tightly reigned in.

Heheh.. I somehow doubt that the nanomachines are original technolodgy designed and created by those who started the Otomes. And why do I think that the Aswalds are serious, serious competition for even meisters as they are constantly continuing research into the nanomachines. They have scientists, hit teams to grab old technolodgy to advance and mass produce when the Otomes are, like, happy with where they are. I see no signs that the Otomes are trying to advance their own nanos. And anyone that has so much glanced at the real world can see that in one case there is no development, and in the other rapid development, one is going to overtake the other. :D Lets say, hmm, that NVidia, today, stopped working on any new hardware and kept it that way for months, ATI is quite obviously going to get way ahead, real fast.

Oh, the Gardrobe system keeps Otomes on a tight leash alright.. a tight leash practically run by one giant console and computer. Quite an easy target for either Shwartz and Aswald to hit. Sure, it won't knock the Otomes down, but, you blow it up, and the Otomes cannot continue to monitor who is where, and so chaos breaks out.

And would you call deflecting a meister attack with one bare hand barely defending oneself? I'm sure I wouldn't. Long term power is useless compared to a 5 minute super boost in powers. Why? Because you would be lieing on the floor with your skull caved in after 30 seconds in the average case, not much use having powers for as long as you want. I'm sure we haven't seen anything compared to the stuff both Shwartz and Aswald possess. Sure, with the stuff we have seen already, there may be 5 undefeatables, but if everyone else is dead, what use is it to keep fighting? I think even pillars would collapse under emotional stress after seeing hundreds of lower Otomes wiped out, except perhaps Shizuru.

Ok, I can't say that deserting the Otomes is easy for a fact until we have seen more evidence come our way. And we have at least 2 weeks to wait for that.

Boy Adoru

2005-12-24, 04:53

The banana hat I could live with, since all ceremonial crowns are suppose to be silly looking to my eyes anyway. But Akira's face-mask looks like it was purchased from a discount halloween supply store for children's parties, sold for 10 cents a dozen.

Akira's battle costume is the first genuine fashion-disaster so far. I hope they won't have any more of those...:heh.

If Mai is to represent Zipang, will she get both the hat, the mask, and a similar battle costume? I think I'd be up in arms in front of Sunrise's headquarters...

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-24, 04:54

kazekiri

2005-12-24, 05:03

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-24, 05:13

Here's something I'm wondering, completely unrelated to discussion about Garderobe, Meisters and who can or can't match that. Why is it that only Nao seems to get a personalized weapon among the Pearls? We see all the others in 10 using the same big staffs as the Corals and when Akane flys off in the preview she's got one there too. Please tell me we're seeing her tonfas again at some point.

Nao has exactly the same staff weapon as everyone else, an extendable staff. She keep it short because her fighting style requires a different shape.

Depending on the user, the basic staff (size of a baton) can morph in shape using materialisation techniques. Nao splits the weapon down the middle and turn it into a pair of Cat o' nine tails. The cords on the two whips extends and function as wires like her old weapon in Mai Hime. At the end of the fight against the tentacle monster, you see her putting the two ends together and restore the staff shape.
http://www.partybox.co.uk/data/images/catoninetails.jpg
Though nowadays limited to the S & M industry, the "cat" was standard punishment equipment for floggings on-board ships both for pirates and navies. It's consider a mild punishment, as it's made from rope. Serious punishment requires true whips, made of leather.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_o'_nine_tails
We should see what Akane can morph with her staff in the new episode after the new year.

Ronin Aquila

2005-12-24, 05:56

http://www.partybox.co.uk/data/images/catoninetails.jpg
Though nowadays limited to the S & M industry, the "cat" was standard punishment equipment for floggings on-board ships both for pirates and navies. It's consider a mild punishment, as it's made from rope. Serious punishment requires true whips, made of leather.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_o'_nine_tails

I'm not sure about your sources, sir, but a true Cat-of-Nine-Tails is hardly mild punishment.

The standard issue "Aussie Convict" punishing Cats are made of leather as well, and tied with multiple "knots" that intersect each and ever tail.

Innocuous you say? That is until you dip it in water and watch the knots swell.

Then you apply it with swift force to the poor bugger who just stole the "Guvner's" bread. Each and every knot digs into the flesh of his back and tears chunks off as it is pulled back.

Standard punishment dictates that 99 repetitions of the above process is required for "minor" crimes.

The average convict in Botany Bay (now called Sydney) who walk away, if they can walk at all, from the rack are said to make squishing noises with each footstep as the blood pours down their legs to soak their socks. And they are lucky compared to the ones whom you can see "the ivory beneath their flesh."

Hardly "mild punishment", wouldn't you say? :(

Preston

2005-12-24, 06:01

I have no doubt that at some stage, both Aswarld and Shwartz whould be able to match Gardrobe in military capabilities.

What I am NOT agreeing, is that a masterless Otome can just march up to either of these organisations, and in a month or year gain Pillar-level freedom.

See your own quote:

"All they would have to do?" You are making it sound too easy...

The second quote I especially disagree with. Right now, outside of Gardrobe elites, people who know the loop hole doesn't exist.

In the future? Likely. But you are suggesting it is easy right now. And I fail to see that.

I'm not sure where I specified I time span for this. Neither have I mentioned pillar level freedom. Since, I am sure, in the future we will learn they are not so free as they think.

See, I think, that right now in the series, both Shwartz and Aswald can match the power of the Otomes at a 1:1 ratio, its just they are playing the smart way, as in, don't wave around our military power in front of the entire opposition. It's about the same as a country listing every military unit they had in every area and handing it over to the enemy. It is just not done if you want to win a conflict, or at least severly damage your chances of winning and I'm sure the covert Shwartz and Aswalds can see this.

Didn't we learn from World War 1, don't line your people up and get them to run in turn at one another just to be mowed down my heavy machine gun fire? The tactics of the Otomes seem to me very similar to those used during this war. They are not up-to-date. We saw a flash back of an Otome war, and, well, what the hell? They had their people lined up, on these wierd tower things, only to go out one by one and be killed one by one. This is not how you win a war. You win a war through co-ordination, co-operation and careful planning. A swift, planned strike gets you an advange over the slow continual flow of the opponent. This is why the Aswalds have an advantage over the Otomes. They get lots of power, fast, and for a short space of time, when they need it.

Oh, and saying 'All they would have to do' isn't really making it sound easy. See this: 'All they would have to was hike 100 miles'. Saying 'all they would have to do' simply states that there are not many demands to be met, not their difficulty.

Why should the level of difficulty to getting into one of these organisations get any easier with the passage of time? Surely it would be more difficult if a war broke out in the future, because wouldn't people want to step up their security to filter out spies? Surely they wouldn't let the odd Otome that walked up to them and called themselves a deserter straight into their midst?

It's consider a mild punishment, as it's made from rope. Serious punishment requires true whips, made of leather.

:uhoh: Mild?

EDIT: I heard someone mention Nao is Takumi's Otome? Is this correct? And, when did that happen? Or is it going to happen?

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-24, 07:13

I'm not sure about your sources, sir, but a true Cat-of-Nine-Tails is hardly mild punishment.

The standard issue "Aussie Convict" punishing Cats are made of leather as well, and tied with multiple "knots" that intersect each and ever tail.

Innocuous you say? That is until you dip it in water and watch the knots swell.

Then you apply it with swift force to the poor bugger who just stole the "Guvner's" bread. Each and every knot digs into the flesh of his back and tears chunks off as it is pulled back.

Standard punishment dictates that 99 repetitions of the above process is required for "minor" crimes.

The average convict in Botany Bay (now called Sydney) who walk away, if they can walk at all, from the rack are said to make squishing noises with each footstep as the blood pours down their legs to soak their socks. And they are lucky compared to the ones whom you can see "the ivory beneath their flesh."

Hardly "mild punishment", wouldn't you say? :(

Especially harsh floggings were given with it in secondary penal colonies of early colonial Australia, particularly at such places as Norfolk Island (apparently this has 9 leather thongs each with a lead weight, meant as the utter deterrent for hardened life-convicts), Port Arthur and Moreton Bay (now Brisbane).
Try reading the links I supply, will you?

The traditional Cat:
The instrument traditionally has nine thongs as a result of the manner in which rope is braided. Thinner rope is made from three strands of yarn braided together, and thicker rope from three strands of thinner rope braided together. To make a cat o' nine tails, a rope would simply be unraveled into three small ropes, and each of those would then be unraveled in turn.

Now, what in the world are you arguing with me about? If it's made from leather, it's no longer a traditional cat. The Australian leather version is used to whip hard convicts, while the traditional cat was used on one's own crew for misdemeanors.

What are you trying to prove?

Ronin Aquila

2005-12-24, 07:32

Begging your pardon, as I was merely citing what I knew of the implement in the 8 months I studied Australian history back in Year 11, and the rather hideous impression left in the mind ran contrary to the comparatively benign one given in three posts ago. Pardon me for not reading the link, as I had 8 months of strongly imbedded misconception backing up the hesitation to click upon it, not to mention that the cat used to flaw the Hebrew Messiah was also leather and two thousand years ago, much closer to "tradition" than two century old ones.

But as you seem quite incensed by my ignorance, I will now click on the link to be cured of it.

atua

2005-12-24, 08:08

See, I think, that right now in the series, both Shwartz and Aswald can match the power of the Otomes at a 1:1 ratio, its just they are playing the smart way, as in, don't wave around our military power in front of the entire opposition.

It may not be impossible to infiltrate Garderobe, but I think you're over-estimating Shwartz & Aswald here.

Schwartz's advantage over Garderobe at the moment is their research/intelligence gathering/stealth/espionage capabilities and the fact that they seem to have an endless supply of cannon fodder. Having said that, on each occasion that they did directly confront Garderobe, their slaves have been beaten very easily.

Aswald seem to have more advanced technology that approaches that used by Garderobe, such as those displayed by Rad and Midori. Their problem though is the lack of numbers. From what Midori said (in the ep where they met with that king), they are the last of those from the Black Valley, implying that there aren't many of them left.

If Aswald & Schwartz ever combine forces, Garderobe might be in some real trouble...

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2005-12-24, 08:17

If Aswald & Schwartz ever combine forces, Garderobe might be in some real trouble...

Much to the delight of Gardrobe, John Smith's recent actions in stealing from Asward pretty much guaranties long term hostilities between these two groups. They both want the same things, but neither are willing to share.

We won't see either side offering hands of friendship unless major political change of leadership occurs.

ox2

2005-12-24, 09:03

:topicoff: ARG!!:frustrated: I wanna see Natsuki in her ROBE!!!:upset: ....i mean we're at episode 12 and she hasnt materilized not even once....her robe better be damn cool after all this time.... sorry i just had to get that out of my system.:)

ox2

2005-12-24, 09:11

I'm not sure where I specified I time span for this. Neither have I mentioned pillar level freedom. Since, I am sure, in the future we will learn they are not so free as they think.

See, I think, that right now in the series, both Shwartz and Aswald can match the power of the Otomes at a 1:1 ratio, its just they are playing the smart way, as in, don't wave around our military power in front of the entire opposition. It's about the same as a country listing every military unit they had in every area and handing it over to the enemy. It is just not done if you want to win a conflict, or at least severly damage your chances of winning and I'm sure the covert Shwartz and Aswalds can see this.

Didn't we learn from World War 1, don't line your people up and get them to run in turn at one another just to be mowed down my heavy machine gun fire? The tactics of the Otomes seem to me very similar to those used during this war. They are not up-to-date. We saw a flash back of an Otome war, and, well, what the hell? They had their people lined up, on these wierd tower things, only to go out one by one and be killed one by one. This is not how you win a war. You win a war through co-ordination, co-operation and careful planning. A swift, planned strike gets you an advange over the slow continual flow of the opponent. This is why the Aswalds have an advantage over the Otomes. They get lots of power, fast, and for a short space of time, when they need it.

Oh, and saying 'All they would have to do' isn't really making it sound easy. See this: 'All they would have to was hike 100 miles'. Saying 'all they would have to do' simply states that there are not many demands to be met, not their difficulty.

Why should the level of difficulty to getting into one of these organisations get any easier with the passage of time? Surely it would be more difficult if a war broke out in the future, because wouldn't people want to step up their security to filter out spies? Surely they wouldn't let the odd Otome that walked up to them and called themselves a deserter straight into their midst?

:uhoh: Mild?

EDIT: I heard someone mention Nao is Takumi's Otome? Is this correct? And, when did that happen? Or is it going to happen?

huh?:confused: where is that post at? i seriously doubt thats correct though, but i could be wrong.