View Full Version : Episode 62 Discussion Thread
Omniscient
2005-12-20, 10:27
Episode 62 Screencaps and Long Summary (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2005/12/20/bleach-62/)
-Aizen defeats Komamura easily with a spell.
-He explains that he wanted to use the Soukyouku to take out the Hougyoku, but he did his research and found another extraction method.
-The captain uses this method and takes out the Hougyoku from Rukia. Though she is uninjured from the procedure, Aizen orders Ichimaru to kill her.
-Byakuya saves Rukia and takes the hit from Ichimaru. Kuukaku, Jidanbou, Yoruichi, Soi Fong, and several captains and vice-captains all arrive to surround Aizen.
-However, the sky opens up and Menos Grande appear, enveloping Aizen in a light that allows him to escape.
-In the aftermath, Byakuya explains to Rukia that she was his deceased wife's little sister. He swore to uphold the rules, so when Rukia's execution came up, he had a difficult decision to make between her and the rules.
Good episode, though they took out the gate guardians bit and moved the Kuukaku and Jidanbou part up. Nothing major though. We get to hear the rest of Aizen's story and also why Byakuya acted as he did. This arc should be able to conclude in one more episode.Edit: No Bleach for the next two weeks. Episode 63, a one hour special, will air on January 10th.
Please do not discuss anything past episode 62, or else you risk a ban. Even tags are no defense.
OMG!! I want to watch it :love:
hi no ken Jebus
2005-12-20, 10:54
Well since Omniscient didn't bring it up I guess i'll do it. But no bleach till 1/10 however there will be a 1 hr special.
Well some stuff was changed don't know if it was for the better or not but it was a good episode. Aizen's awesomeness continues as he takes out Komamura with a lv. 90 spell:heh:. Hisana's story was great and the place it stops is pretty good. Don't know if Bk will make it after getting fatally stabbed:uhoh:. Well the only thing I didn't like about the episode was Unohana resurrecting Hitsugaya and Hinamori other than that everything was good. A weird scene in particular was when Yoruichi and Soi Fong stopped Aizen. Was Soi Fong hanging from his back?:heh: :eyespin:. Anyway the Kon special at the end is always hilarious. And the preview looks awesome with more Renji x Ichigo moments:love:
Omniscient
2005-12-20, 11:21
Yea, I neglected to mention it because almost every series that's not concluding at the end of this season is taking one or two weeks off starting next week. It's normal for the end of December/start of January.
hi no ken Jebus
2005-12-20, 11:33
Yea, I neglected to mention it because almost every series that's not concluding at the end of this season is taking one or two weeks off starting next week. It's normal for the end of December/start of January.
Not so much the break since yes it's common for the end of the year but 1 hr specials are always noteworthy:) . Although you or me mentioning won't change the fact someone is bound to ask why there's no bleach the following week:heh:. Also this was ch 176 to somewhere in the middle of ch179 if I am not mistaken.
Omniscient
2005-12-20, 11:35
Yes, you're right, someone's bound to ask.
Chapters 176 to three pages before the end of 179, to be specific. :)
Kinny Riddle
2005-12-20, 11:57
So now they've moved Tousen's backstory to this episode. Just the thought of seeing these exciting revelations and Aizen-pwnage makes me want to see 61 and 62 quickly once I get my hands on it.
BTW, Om, lately there's this spoiling troll roaming your blog, you might need to put your comment page in a separate link to your episode page so as to reduce the havoc he wreaks on unsuspecting anime-only viewers. We manga-readers can't be vigilant all the time and tip you off to edit his post quick enough. :)
Omniscient
2005-12-20, 12:04
There's no way I'd move comments to a separate page. If you want to talk about it, feel free to PM me.
OMG, that preview of episode 63 was great!!
Hinamori looked great with her hair down!!!!
A very good episode that has a sense of conclusion to an episode of Bleach in a long time, meaning this one wouldn't let one yarn for the next episode right away. The abundance of information and secrets revealed in one episode made me realize the arc is coming to an end. Aizen was awesome as usual, so was Gin. Only one minor gripe is that I didn't see (or just failed to notice) Kenpachi.
P.S. It's good to see Omni and HiNo are still around.
OMG, that preview of episode 63 was great!!
Hinamori looked great with her hair down!!!!
Hinamori has nothing on Aizen without his glasses while his hair combed backward. What a bishi!
Hinamori has nothing on Aizen without his glasses while his hair combed backward. What a bishi!
The real question is though, where did he get the gel from?!?! Unless that was an illusion too :p Such a bishi :p
The real question though, is where did he get the gel from?!?! Unless that was an illusion too :p Such a bishi :p
:heh: He is such a bishi he doesn't need gel. He used his hands. As we saw, he just took off those glasses, swiped his hands backward over his hair, and voila. No wonder Hinamori was smitten. Hinamori got nothing on him. :D
can't w8 to see that :D
Cat and Bee must be sexy and than Kukkaku :D and Rangiku :D so many hotties up there, I won't say that Byakuya boy isn't nice with himself taking stab instead of Rukia
and we know now why Aizen didn't take his time to finish off Unohaha too when he already had an appointment at Soukyouku hill with that bunch of new allies :heh: ...
1h special is good but why they make us w8 so much recently... I know... they don't want to make it like Naruto with fillers, but it's hard :D I could take some filler about Nanao-chan instead of some flash back when she's about to die, when we don't know will we ever see her fight :D
As I have mentioned in one of my previous replies, this episode doesn't end in a hangover. You won't yarn for the next episode right away when you finished watching this one.
ShikaShika
2005-12-20, 13:53
this episode doesn't end in a hangover.
Thank god, I can't stand hangovers.
As I have mentioned in one of my previous replies, this episode doesn't end in a hangover.
You mean Cilffhanger... A hangover is what you get after a few drinks ;)
Isn't it the same thing? Both are painful :p
I thought the manga showed Byakuya saving Rukia alot better. I liked the closer view they had
ritalman
2005-12-20, 14:37
The real question is though, where did he get the gel from?!?! Unless that was an illusion too :p Such a bishi :p
Lol yeah he pulled a Vergil (DMC3)
:. Well the only thing I didn't like about the episode was Unohana resurrecting Hitsugaya and Hinamori other than that everything was good.
I knew both of then were still alive, in the Bleach universe those are Minor Injury.;)
BTW, I see you mentioned "ressurecting", were they considered dead by Unohana-sama? (sorry, but I have not seeen this ep yet, thats why I'm asking.) I got the notion she was positive of healing those 2 by the end of Ep 61
acidflower
2005-12-20, 16:06
ZOMG YES YES YES YES!
AIZEN LOST HIS GLASSES AND WENT BISHIE! W00T! An evil bishie who is really strong! What can get better!!! Am I the only one who interpreted the "sorry" (that Gin said) as like..a romantic-ish thingy?
The Desert Tiger
2005-12-20, 16:13
Man I can't wait to see this ep, I mean more Aizen pwnage, who could resist that plus we get to find out why Byakuya did what he did. This sounds like an awesome ep!
Why did they skip the 3 Guardians part... yes i know they expanded on the Hougyoku a lil more but the eps felt rushed to me...
Would like to add an important character's short spotlight in this episode
Can't wait to see Ichimaru's actions in this episode. It really makes you wonder about him and what his true intentions are. He looks so... innocent.
Souzouryoku
2005-12-20, 19:15
ZOMG YES YES YES YES!
AIZEN LOST HIS GLASSES AND WENT BISHIE! W00T! An evil bishie who is really strong! What can get better!!! Am I the only one who interpreted the "sorry" (that Gin said) as like..a romantic-ish thingy?
Hahah- I haven't seen the screencaps close up, but I think Aizen looks better with his glasses off in the manga. :p Way more evil and bishi :D
It seems like fillers are inevitable...considering how close they are getting. Ah well, hopefully they won't be so bad. I have faith :) :D
Why did they skip the 3 Guardians part... yes i know they expanded on the Hougyoku a lil more but the eps felt rushed to me...
I know! They could have cut out Inoue and them arriving (I don't remember that happening in the manga) and devoted more time to that sequence :(
But above all I would have rather seen a huge pool of blood around Ichigo :heh: They really downplayed his injury...
decent ep but it was liek bitch fest that saves the day... Wtf next episode is on 1/10 too. thats friken 3 weeks from now and we only get a 1hr special shoot we should get a 1.5 hours ep lol. damn going to suck with no bleach cioming up
Aww loved the kuichiki moment! Anyone up for BK x rukia. I am!
But damn didnt get to see Aizen take them all down....
Ichimaru Gin amused me in this episode... hes so full of bloodlust, yet he holds such sentimental feelings towards Rangiku. When she grabbed his wrist, it showed a slight bit of his reaction in his eyes, I bet he was ready to lop off the persons head that grabbed him then it turned out to be Rangiku and he quickly surrendered.
Last_Hope
2005-12-21, 06:11
Byakuya suddenly became very human and emotional. A tricky situation indeed. But his; hold my hand "little sister" and that stuff was a little too much. If I was Ichigo I would tease him for that for quite some time. :D
It is the women who´s been dominating these last episodes. They´ve been saving the day (aka lives) a lot of times now. :D
By the way, that "3 Guardians part" what happened at that time in the manga?
I wonder what Gin is up to as well. Not having read the manga, from his actions up to now, I can only conclude he is following his very own agenda - not necessarily resulting in being Aizen's underling, but rather seeming like he is riding along the stream at the moment.
I think the reactions to Rangiku in specific show that there might be more to him than just being Aizen's right hand. I am most interested in learning of the background they share (in the anime, not the manga. Please no spoilers :upset: ).
What impresses me most is the level of character development that has taken place. It is not like "oh well, these guys turned evil. So there!", but more like each seems to have his individual reasons. Same goes for the fights beforehands. Must be why Bleach is by far my favourite show :heh:
I like how Komamura stepped up in the beginning of the ep - full of righteous anger. Sad to see him fail so easily, but then again, Aizen's earlier opponents didn't look too good either :p
stonedzombie
2005-12-21, 06:24
wow....ok.....so let me get this straight.
Aizen is already at a point where he is stopping bankais with one finger and pretty much no one can even make a mark on him......yet......now he is about to gain hollow power which will probably make him 10 or 20x stronger?!!? what can anyone do to him????!!?
I'd like to see where they go with this.....cause no one can even beat him now, let alone after his "transformation"
wow....ok.....so let me get this straight.
Aizen is already at a point where he is stopping bankais with one finger and pretty much no one can even make a mark on him......yet......now he is about to gain hollow power which will probably make him 10 or 20x stronger?!!? what can anyone do to him????!!?
I'd like to see where they go with this.....cause no one can even beat him now, let alone after his "transformation"
I were under the impression that he already is a "half-hollow", and that is the reason for his imbalanced strenght. If he 's going to get even stronger it'd just be stupid. :twitch:
stonedzombie
2005-12-21, 06:39
I were under the impression that he already is a "half-hollow", and that is the reason for his imbalanced strenght. If he 's going to get even stronger it'd just be stupid. :twitch:
hmm......i don't think so.......cause Aizen was waiting to get that thing out of Rukia before trying to fuse with a hollow so that he would keep his sanity.
I thought Aizen is strong because everybody was under his Hypnosis from the beginning.
NoSanninWa
2005-12-21, 06:45
hmm......i don't think so.......cause Aizen was waiting to get that thing out of Rukia before trying to fuse with a hollow so that he would keep his sanity.
Which means that he is going to get monumentally stronger than he is right now. "stupidly" stronger as Apekatt put's it. :heh:
I thought Aizen is strong because everybody was under his Hypnosis from the beginning.
It is hard to tell. Perhaps Ichigo wasn't under his hypnosis, so some of his power might be real.
I am happy how it turned out. I was kind missing the whole hollow part of the series and now it looks like they are getting back on track. I am very curious to see what Ichigo and the rest of the gang will do.
P.S. I miss my avatar and signatur :( cant believe they both gone.
Ryu_Hiragoshi
2005-12-21, 07:44
It is hard to tell. Perhaps Ichigo wasn't under his hypnosis, so some of his power might be real.
He'd never met Aizen so it's impossible for him to under hypnosis. Only the people he used the bankai on would be under hypnosis.
on another note, I felt that byakuya sudden emotional change seemed kind of artificial to me. How the hell can he do everything he's done without showing any emotion? It just didn't seem right at all.
Hirakashi Ryu
ccardoso
2005-12-21, 08:09
He'd never met Aizen so it's impossible for him to under hypnosis. Only the people he used the bankai on would be under hypnosis.
on another note, I felt that byakuya sudden emotional change seemed kind of artificial to me. How the hell can he do everything he's done without showing any emotion? It just didn't seem right at all.
Hirakashi Ryu
If I'm not wrong in the manga it's stated that if you see Aizen's sword just ONCE you are already under his complete hypnosis... so Ichigo is under it as well. In fact I think Aizen didn't stop Ichigo's sword with only one finger... if that was true then Aizen will be already at god level and future events would be meaningless... but it can't be like that because Bleach wouldn't have any reason to exist anymore in the first place.
What happened with Ichigo's sword is different IMHO: Ichigo thought to have stabbed Aizen but Aizen's hypnotism made Ichigo think Aizen was a little forward to his real position and so Ichigo stopped his sword himself before reaching the "true" Aizen and at that point Aizen had an easy time to show off his theoretical godly status.
It's the same happened with the fox captain: he directed his bankai against a fake Aizen and then he realized all of a sudden that Aizen was right under him and fox captain didn't have any time to escape Aizen black box. I think that, if Aizen didn't want, the fox captain couldn't even have realized that Aizen was under him and the one he targeted was just a mere fake.
As I wrote in the Aizen's speculations thread, I think that with a techinque like complete hypnosis it doesn't matter how strong an enemy is, if you can control him like a puppet you will always be able to manipulate him like you wish.
So I think Aizen has a godly techinque, but it isn't like he's god by himself, without that techinque he would be just a very strong shinigami... he couldn't be taken down by Rukia of course, but he wouldn't be able to do such a total ownage we've seen in the latest two episodes.
I also loved the moment matsumoto "hugged" gin. It would seem that the matsumoto was the one thing in the soul society that gin would miss.
"If only you held me longer" was what gin said. Would rangiku be able to stop gin if she tried hard enough?
kheldorin
2005-12-21, 08:42
I also loved the moment matsumoto "hugged" gin. It would seem that the matsumoto was the one thing in the soul society that gin would miss.
"If only you held me longer" was what gin said. Would rangiku be able to stop gin if she tried hard enough?
No....Gin would just turn around and say....
"You're annoying...", puts her to sleep and walk away. :p
/...runs back to Naruto forums
I also loved the moment matsumoto "hugged" gin. It would seem that the matsumoto was the one thing in the soul society that gin would miss.
"If only you held me longer" was what gin said. Would rangiku be able to stop gin if she tried hard enough?
I thought he said that either because the light beam would have destroyed her if she held on for a bit longer, or he wanted her to hold on to him for sentimental sake. That was the conflict I got out of it anyways.
And yeah, it was pretty lame how they cut out the three other guardians. All Jidanbou did was make everything 'flashy', like Gin mentioned.
beansprouts
2005-12-21, 08:56
Aizen was so so badass, I'm loving his evilness more and more. It's fun to watch both Aizen and Gin being badass together, such an unlikely pair, yet they complement each other. I could quite understand the last bit that Tousen said about him being in the side of justice... nah, it's ok, I was too distracted by bishi-Aizen with his hair slicked back.
The Byakuya and Rukia's sister was an intereseting touch, Rukia and her sister are like carbon copies of each other. The last part whereby Byakuya held out his hand for Rukia to hold was rather... um... strange though.
What a great episode, I think I am going to rewatch it (more Aizen!!).
What happened with Ichigo's sword is different IMHO: Ichigo thought to have stabbed Aizen but Aizen's hypnotism made Ichigo think Aizen was a little forward to his real position and so Ichigo stopped his sword himself before reaching the "true" Aizen and at that point Aizen had an easy time to show off his theoretical godly status.
I don't think so. Given his momentum, there's no way Ichigo could just stop his sword himself.
I have no problem believing that Aizen was capable of stopping Ichigo like that. He already barehandedly broke Renji's sword.
Ichimaru
2005-12-21, 09:29
Wtf was Gin doin takin his time on those ryoka, i think he was very lenient on them when he release his reiatsu not makin them collapse. Oh yeh love his sword technique and him always questioning aizen and givin ppl smirks :D
yeah hes an nice evil counter-character :cool:
(whoah! counterperson thingy; i dont know if this is how you describe a person with the role as badguy)
anyway, i find his romantic moment very suspicious :eyebrow:
Ichimaru
2005-12-21, 10:55
What i wanna ask is, since everyone has been fooled by aizen since day 1 he showed off his bankai, only person not affected by it is tousen, whattabout ichimaru?
what is this missing 3 guardians thing everyone is talking about?
I think the reason Aizen could smash Ichigo that easily is that he has basically reached his limit. He blocked Komamura`s sword with his bare hand!! He can`t become stronger as a shinigami so he wants to become a hollow.
when gin said "if only you held me longer", he meant..if rangiku had held him longer
his other "shinsou" will go "ikorose" :D
what is this missing 3 guardians thing everyone is talking about? Yeah, I don't know either what is this missing 3 guardians thing some people are whining about? The episode was very good without these "guardians." Now as an anime-only watcher I would understand their whining for not showing if those guardians have three boobs on each, but I suspect that isn't the case either.
edit:
You mean Cilffhanger... A hangover is what you get after a few drinks ;) No no, I meant hangover. :heh:
Thank god, I can't stand hangovers. Me neither!
Echostarter
2005-12-21, 12:14
Hey, this episode was awesome... Aizen, as much of a prick that he is, has become way cool... .... .... ... .. .. ... DAMN, he's cool... ... hate that guy...
And total major convulsions when ALL THE CAPTAINS AND VCs CAME TO ARREST HIM!!!!! WOW SO COOL!
Definately some interesting things happened in this episode...
Komamura gets beaten easily, unfortunately. Aizen simply has too much of an advantage while someone is hypnotized. The little flashbacks don't reveal too much, except that it's obvious that Tousen got influenced by Aizen long ago. Even when directly asked later on, Tousen's still doesn't explain anything really.
Aizen explains why he wanted to get her executed by Soukyoku, but manages to retrieve what he was looking for from Rukia by another method. Not sure why he'd want to get rid of her afterwards, since she isn't much of a threat.
The three baddies escape due to Menos interference, and we see an unexpected reaction from Gin towards Rangiku. I wonder if he would have wanted to bring her along, if at all possible, hence the comment he made.
And last but not least, we find out the exact reasons for Byakuya's actions, and Rukia is actually his sister-in-law. When you think about it, doesn't that mean she was already related to him and the objections he got when taking her in were moot? Although I suppose he couldn't do it like that since he promised not to reveal she was Hisana's sister. However, he did break that part of the promise in the end. But she deserved to know ofcourse.
Hisana's death (by illness I believe?) made me wonder, what exactly is Soul Society? People die and go to SS, but once there they can die again? I could understand if it were by violent means (like due to hollows) but I don't really understand why many live there under miserable conditions, can get ill, etc.
Crimsonmon
2005-12-21, 12:57
what is this missing 3 guardians thing everyone is talking about?
I'll put it in spoilers just in case.
Aizen calls the other three gate guardians to keep Yoruichi and Soi busy after the 'trap' him. That's when Kuukaku and Jidanbou arrive and they use Lightning Tiger Canon on the guardians instead of Aizen, which doesn't do anything, so Jidanbou knocks them out with his fists. While watching, Ichimaru gets caught, and then the anime is the same from that point.
http://img424.imageshack.us/img424/1673/m7bleachch177092em.jpg
Definately some interesting things happened in this episode...
The three baddies escape due to Menos interference, and we see an unexpected reaction from Gin towards Rangiku. I wonder if he would have wanted to bring her along, if at all possible, hence the comment he made.
I'm sure Gin wants to take Rangiku along. They looks like a poor couple tore apart .
And last but not least, we find out the exact reasons for Byakuya's actions, and Rukia is actually his sister-in-law. When you think about it, doesn't that mean she was already related to him and the objections he got when taking her in were moot? Although I suppose he couldn't do it like that since he promised not to reveal she was Hisana's sister. However, he did break that part of the promise in the end. But she deserved to know ofcourse.
Rukia was the "unoffical" sister-in-law. Remember that Hisana abandon Rukia. So it means that the relationship cannot go above the table.(Even though Rukia knew about it long time ago) Therefore, the opposition voices from the Kuchiki family sounds rather reasonable.
Hisana's death (by illness I believe?) made me wonder, what exactly is Soul Society? People die and go to SS, but once there they can die again? I could understand if it were by violent means (like due to hollows) but I don't really understand why many live there under miserable conditions, can get ill, etc.
Yeah, that is one part I dun understand. People die, they go SS. Souls in SS dies, where they go?
And can souls reproduce?:confused: I remember Rangiku asked Gin "what do you want to do about the baby" or something like that. If souls can reproduce, then even if the Quincys finish all the hollow, there will still be enough souls to replace those died on the world. Wouldn't that make the elimination of Qunicys redundant?
hmm......i don't think so.......cause Aizen was waiting to get that thing out of Rukia before trying to fuse with a hollow so that he would keep his sanity.
He wants the Hougyoku for his hollow-shinigami creations. He talked about how he couldn't make good or "perfect" hybrids. I thought that was clear. So far in the anime, there's been nothing said about exactly what Aizen is....only about what he wants to do (at least just one aspect of it). As for speculation about what he is, well...I read manga so I won't say anything ;)
Wow alot of stuff happend in this episode, it gave alot of answers but also raised alot of questions. Aizen's divine rise to hollow heaven with the holy grail in his hand was fantastic :D This ep made me wonder if there is organized structures in Hollow world and not just chaos like I assumed it was.
Also is SS arc finished with this episode?
Am I the only one who wants to see someone actually die? I mean c’mon…This everyone just miraculously surviving thing is getting kinda stale.
Good ep though.
Am I the only one who wants to see someone actually die? I mean c’mon…This everyone just miraculously surviving thing is getting kinda stale.
Good ep though.
No your not the only one. Else it seem like anyone could take any kind of fatal attack and still live, no matter how powerful it was. The only ones we seen die is probably Mayuri's human test dolls
stonedzombie
2005-12-21, 15:21
He wants the Hougyoku for his hollow-shinigami creations. He talked about how he couldn't make good or "perfect" hybrids. I thought that was clear. So far in the anime, there's been nothing said about exactly what Aizen is....only about what he wants to do (at least just one aspect of it). As for speculation about what he is, well...I read manga so I won't say anything ;)
wait a sec.....so Aizen is NOT planning on using the Hougyoku on himself? (and maybe gin and tousen).....i thought that was the whole point! So that "you can have limitless power and ability"
Another sweet ep - bleach is perfect for me.. Something that people seem to be missing is Ukitake and Aizen.. It seems like they have some sort of past together.
Gin is cool now - I loved that expression when he said sorry.. he actually looked.. sad? Kinda like "I'm sorry baby, this is just something I gotta do.. I'll be back soon".
Good stuff all around though, sucks about the 3 week thing.
wait a sec.....so Aizen is NOT planning on using the Hougyoku on himself? (and maybe gin and tousen).....i thought that was the whole point! So that "you can have limitless power and ability"
Well, whether he plans on using it on himself isn't really the big concern. It's that he now has the capability to transform other beings without limit as to how many. The truly sinister bad-guys are always calculating. Aizen has already shown tactics similar to Sun Tzu, so the threat of the Hougyoku is much more than him being able to use it on himself.
nolanvoid
2005-12-21, 16:45
After I heard about the modified hollow/shiningami bit
i thought that he would fail on removing it from rukia...
because it seemed like Ichigo had stolen it inadvertently when he took her powers...
i was expecting ichigo to power up again and fight on.
Excellent episode. All this was really surprising.
The return of Byakuya does not surprise me that much, considering what Ichigo scolded him with.
Anyways, it seems the next ep will be filler. That does not bother me. It will make a little break after so many cliffhangers.
A few interrogations for what might happen in the future episodes :
- Ichigo climbing to another power level => crossing the hollow barrier. I bet everything on that and he will kiss some ass again...
- Kenpachi FINALY achieving bankai... (could this EVER happen ?)
- Ichigo's position among Soul Society. Is he gonna be friend with all other captains ? Will grandpa captain keep on slapping kyoraku and ukitake ?
- Love affairs : we see Rukia and Inoue arguing in the preview. Curious to see what's gonna happen !
well these are personnal questions, don't feel force to answer ! I just can't wait for the new year !
Sparkiezap
2005-12-21, 17:13
After I heard about the modified hollow/shiningami bit
i thought that he would fail on removing it from rukia...
because it seemed like Ichigo had stolen it inadvertently when he took her powers...
i was expecting ichigo to power up again and fight on.
I thought the same thing but I thought I heard Aizen say it looked small?:confused:
Also didnt Aizen wonder how it was he did not cut Ichigo in half in the previous episode.
:eyebrow:
Koal1544
2005-12-21, 17:44
The reason Aizen could slick his hair back was because his hands were drenched in blood :heh: It's odd not a single drop was shown on him.
Kawakanai
2005-12-21, 17:46
Gin is cool now - I loved that expression when he said sorry.. he actually looked.. sad? Kinda like "I'm sorry baby, this is just something I gotta do.. I'll be back soon".
Great ep. Kinda of happy it didn't end in a hangover: :D
Then it'd be three weeks waiting for relief.
I get the feeling that Gin is Aizen's Judas and may be working for the Shinigami to betray Aizen when they find out his ultimate goal. That's probably why Gin has been pulling his punches and seems a bit regretful with his lady friend.
Whitemoon648
2005-12-21, 17:47
He wants the Hougyoku for his hollow-shinigami creations. He talked about how he couldn't make good or "perfect" hybrids. I thought that was clear. So far in the anime, there's been nothing said about exactly what Aizen is....only about what he wants to do (at least just one aspect of it). As for speculation about what he is, well...I read manga so I won't say anything ;)
Not be rude, but if u have never noticed it i will tell you. Hintting things is also an spoiler. "He wants the Hougyoku for his hollow-shinigami creations. He talked about how he couldn't make good or "perfect" hybrids. " is itself complete Spoiler. It was never mentioned or hinted that he wanted those things for his hybrid creations. it was just told he wanted these things to surpass His own limits in the anime. So basically this was a direcnt spoiler. and Also " As for speculation about what he is, well...I read manga so I won't say anything" your comment about this is acctually Hintting that Aizen is not a Shinagemi and nor a human , that is again another spoiler. So Please STOP with all these spoilers. "Well, whether he plans on using it on himself isn't really the big concern. It's that he now has the capability to build a whole army of these hybrids. " even then you are going further and hintting about the army. Alot of people here Just watch anime , because they like it better than magna and dont want to be spoiled on it. But i guess some times it just cant be helped.
P.S. I wonder if the people telling us "anime only watchers" these spoilers , do that on purpose or not. :frustrated:
Souzouryoku
2005-12-21, 17:48
I get the feeling that Gin is Aizen's Judas and may be working for the Shinigami to betray Aizen when they find out his ultimate goal. That's probably why Gin has been pulling his punches and seems a bit regretful with his lady friend.
I too question Gin's intentions. There are some scenes were he really looks innocent...well kinda..
Whitemoon648
2005-12-21, 17:54
WOW, We finally see Gin Acctually Sad. This was the first time i see Gin not Laughing and acctually really sad. It was an Awsome episode. It was Funny How Gin just accepted deafeat. I think he just didnt react purposely. Also it was hillarious how scared She got when Gin suddenly changed his facial expression. But seriously Aizen is just beating every one because he keeps catching them ofgaurd. He is strong, but not super strong in my opinion. If It wasnt because of his Hypnosis spell Kumamura would be a chalange for him. I mean Bakuya Injured outspeed him in that condition. He didnt even realize when he got Rukia. Any ways i feel from the preview next one hour speical is going to be mostly fillers. and two weeks without bleach :(.
Kawakanai
2005-12-21, 17:55
After I heard about the modified hollow/shiningami bit
i thought that he would fail on removing it from rukia...
because it seemed like Ichigo had stolen it inadvertently when he took her powers...
i was expecting ichigo to power up again and fight on.
I think Ichigo's hollow half either comes from his training on earth to become a shinigami again under his own power or maybe something to do with his soul already being tainted with a hollow. Remember, he lost all of Rukia's shinigami power when Renji and Byakuya pwned him when they arrested Rukia on Earth.
I don't think the 'crumbling treasure' in Rukia had anything to do with Ichigo's hollow half. Ichigo is a different animal, maybe a 'natural' H/S hybrid instead of the artificial one that the crumbling treasure will create (which is why he will probably be able to fight Aizen and the hollow/shinigami hybrid henchmen he'll probably create later in the series).
Not be rude, but if u have never noticed it i will tell you. Hintting things is also an spoiler. "He wants the Hougyoku for his hollow-shinigami creations. He talked about how he couldn't make good or "perfect" hybrids. " is itself complete Spoiler. It was never mentioned or hinted that he wanted those things for his hybrid creations. it was just told he wanted these things to surpass His own limits in the anime. So basically this was a direcnt spoiler. and Also " As for speculation about what he is, well...I read manga so I won't say anything" your comment about this is acctually Hintting that Aizen is not a Shinagemi and nor a human , that is again another spoiler. So Please STOP with all these spoilers. "Well, whether he plans on using it on himself isn't really the big concern. It's that he now has the capability to build a whole army of these hybrids. " even then you are going further and hintting about the army. Alot of people here Just watch anime , because they like it better than magna and dont want to be spoiled on it. But i guess some times it just cant be helped.
P.S. I wonder if the people telling us "anime only watchers" these spoilers , do that on purpose or not. :frustrated:
Everything I've said is going off of the anime. He has mentioned his "creations", which implies that he is trying to make more powerful beings for whatever his cause is. That's basic logic. Sorry that I know war strategy. It only makes sense that he's trying to gather some kind of force for something. As for hinting about what Aizen is....I don't know, no one knows, even manga readers. So I guess, yes, I was being disingenuous about that. Basically was just trying to get anime watchers to speculate about it. The manga isn't THAT far ahead of the manga. I'm speculating about the same things you are. Anything not revealed in anime so far really isn't that much, so I don't really have much more insight than you do.
decent epesode, wish there wasnt a delay on the next XD
HoshiHikari
2005-12-21, 21:03
OH MY GOSH!!! BYAKUYA DONT DIE~~!!!!! (T___T) sobs*
KaneDragon
2005-12-21, 21:08
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/9419/bleach60aizenhax3lj.jpg
Seriously. Aizen is kicking ass way too easily, that ticks me off. He pwns everyone and then gets abducted by UFOs (the light, the light!). What the heck? I'm still confused. When did all this backstory happen exactly? When did Urahara leave SS, and how much does Rukia know about him?
Although I have to admit, that scene in 61, where the Ichigo-is-a-badass music was starting to gear up and then it suddenly cuts off when Aizen does the finger block... that was funny.
beansprouts
2005-12-21, 21:33
OH MY GOSH!!! BYAKUYA DONT DIE~~!!!!! (T___T) sobs*
Byakuya looks like he's heading for that in that last bit of the episode, then again I don't think he'd die. Tite Kubo didn't finish off Hinamori and Hitsugaya, I don't think he'll finish off Byakuya either. Come to think of it, nobody in the anime really died (not counting those who died in the past like Kaien and Hisana). Heh, I will be pretty sad if there's no more Byakuya, Bleach can always do with more bishies.
Whitemoon648
2005-12-21, 21:41
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/9419/bleach60aizenhax3lj.jpg
Seriously. Aizen is kicking ass way too easily, that ticks me off. He pwns everyone and then gets abducted by UFOs (the light, the light!). What the heck? I'm still confused. When did all this backstory happen exactly? When did Urahara leave SS, and how much does Rukia know about him?
Although I have to admit, that scene in 61, where the Ichigo-is-a-badass music was starting to gear up and then it suddenly cuts off when Aizen does the finger block... that was funny.
Well He doesnt own because he is alot stronger and alot faster than every one. He is really strong but the reason he acctually Pwn every single captain in a 1v1 battle is that he use his Shikai ( his soul slayer abblity) to hypnotize the enemy and make the enemy to see an image of him and while the enemy under the dispel he get close and slash them, without basically them having any time to respond. ( and for the finger thing mayby he tricked ichigo in thinking that he got with a finger). at the end i agree with u , it is kind of confusing. and about the backstorys , in anime (i dont know about Manga) nothing has been shown as far as i remember. The only thing we know is that Urahara cant get back to SS for some reason.
If there's a poll nomination for best drama moment in 2005, I will vote for
Byakuya's confession to Rukia.
It was tender, melancholic, and wavering. I dealt deep into the figure of what kind of man is indeed Byakuya, unlike the general impression I had of him way at the beginning of Soul Society arc.
If the execution had really taken place, Byakuya will have regretted it for the eternity without minding how longer he would have uphold the laws and bring honor to his family's name.
Even the flashback scenes he recalled of Hisana during the time when the flowers of the plum tree withered could likely have hinted from where he chose the name of his zanpakuto.
I did wrong to judge him that harshly at the start until waiting to finally let out his angst and depression.
It just amazes me that Rukia grew up to become literally the spitting image of her deceased, estranged older sister.
Now I feel compassion for him and more care, than ever before, for Rukia. Simply, it was just hell for him to dwindle between the Soul Society code and his affection to take care of someone who was and is important to him.
Hope that Rukia forgives him, cast aside her depression, and finally will she move on.
Even the episode hinted a trace of kindness.....
from Ichimaru.
Although he farewelled to Matsumoto in his usual snide tone, he departed showing her an expression of deep sadness in his face, instead of his mischievous fox face.
It quite tells us that maybe author hints Ichimaru did not wish for things to turn out like this or Ichimaru tried to apologize to Rangiku for all the trouble he had helped caused or Rangiku was the only person to ever care for.
It will be interesting to follow Ichimaru's actions when his time comes to be called again into the story.
As for the escape....
Remember the purple light shining inside the gap that the Menos created, and the remark of one of the vice-captains saying that there was another presence aside from the Menos....
Could that purple light belonged to one of the new breed of Hollows revealed in the manga?
So badass, with a God's complex, Aizen, after undergoing a new haircut and smashing his glasses, at this point we all know what's he planning to do with the Hogyoku, right?
PersocomChi
2005-12-21, 22:12
IMO Aizen's power has grown so strong. Even Ichigo's bankai is nothing compare to his powers. Since Ichigo's a lot stronger than most captians.. only way he can stand a chance against Aizen is in his Hollow form. But then again, by that time Aizen would have his hollow form too... same with Gin and Touken (4got hisname). *eeek* lets hope the DBZ bald pervert old man (4got his name.. havent watched dbz in ages) :heh: (1st captian)is strong enuff to fight Aizen and friends.
You guys have to remember that Ichigo was practically beaten by the time he went against Aizen, since Byakuya took pretty much all of his strength out of him. I wouldn't even place Aizen above Ukitake and Kyouraku, who are both just below Yamamoto, meaning that I think Aizen's the fourth strongest Captain. But that's just raw power, of course. His Absolute Hypnosis changes everything completely.
Nightengale
2005-12-21, 22:26
You guys have to remember that Ichigo was practically beaten by the time he went against Aizen, since Byakuya took pretty much all of his strength out of him. I wouldn't even place Aizen above Ukitake and Kyouraku, who are both just below Yamamoto, meaning that I think Aizen's the fourth strongest Captain. But that's just raw power, of course. His Absolute Hypnosis changes everything completely.
That's simply your opinion, because we have no idea how his hypnosis technique EXACTLY works, who was under his hypnosis during the whole SS, and which of his godly powers were a result of hypnosis, which were not.
I think the only safe thing we can assume is that he, Gin and Tousen are not capable of taking out the whole SS on their own. Otherwise, he need not to rely on all those mumbo jumbo.
Whitemoon648
2005-12-21, 22:30
You guys have to remember that Ichigo was practically beaten by the time he went against Aizen, since Byakuya took pretty much all of his strength out of him. I wouldn't even place Aizen above Ukitake and Kyouraku, who are both just below Yamamoto, meaning that I think Aizen's the fourth strongest Captain. But that's just raw power, of course. His Absolute Hypnosis changes everything completely.
thats what i think too. Aizen without hypnosis wouldnt be that stronger. He is strong but the only reason he is owning so bad is his Hypnosis. But i think i am gona say Bakuya is prbably the same level as Ukitake and Kyuoraku.
So badass, with a God's complex, Aizen, after undergoing a new haircut and smashing his glasses, at this point we all know what's he planning to do with the Hogyoku, right?
Lasik? Seriously, I was kind of annoyed by the whole "I'm a villain now, so I need to look more bishi" thing.
The whole "Geek gone wrong" schtick had its value, and they blew it.
You guys have to remember that Ichigo was practically beaten by the time he went against Aizen, since Byakuya took pretty much all of his strength out of him. I wouldn't even place Aizen above Ukitake and Kyouraku, who are both just below Yamamoto, meaning that I think Aizen's the fourth strongest Captain. But that's just raw power, of course. His Absolute Hypnosis changes everything completely.
Nothing much, juz a gentle reminder. Byakuya also fight it out with Renji before Ichigo, plus he have his doubts whether to save Rukia or not.
But I think Aizen's complete hypnosis manage to fool Renji but not Ichigo. So I still think Aizen is still goddamn strong
I never read the manga, in this episode I still do not understand Tousen's motive at all. If anyone knows his motive please explain. Iam thinking he may betray Aizen and Gin but thats just a guess.
I kinda like the way this episode ened but it was too short.:(
Seriously. Aizen is kicking ass way too easily, that ticks me off. He pwns everyone and then gets abducted by UFOs (the light, the light!). What the heck?
You know what that image makes me think of, wrt Aizen? Ghost in the Shell. "You hacked my eyes, you SOB!"
Aizen *is* the Laughing Man.
I never read the manga, in this episode I still do not understand Tousen's motive at all. If anyone knows his motive please explain. Iam thinking he may betray Aizen and Gin but thats just a guess.
That's one vote for Gin to betray him, and one vote for Tousen. Aizen is not sitting comfortably, methinks.
If you ask me: Those souls who need to eat and age, should also be able to reproduce!
However they shouldn't be able to create new souls out of nothing! I think the babies they produce are souls from the human world (where else?), which weren't sent to SS. Maybe some sort of souls who left earth themselves.
And most likely it's a very rare event, so the Shinigami can only reproduce, if there is a soul ready. But this is everything just my opinion.
"redundant"? Isn't this the wrong term?
Juz how fast does Hitsugaya Tōshirō rose to be a captain? Remember that he was eating water melon with Hinamori(still haven even attend the Shinigami school!!!)
One more thing, if reproduction is so rare, shouldn't adoption in nobel families met with less opposition?
If redundant is the wrong term, then make it extra.
NoSanninWa
2005-12-22, 00:55
If I'm not wrong in the manga it's stated that if you see Aizen's sword just ONCE you are already under his complete hypnosis... so Ichigo is under it as well.
IIRC, he actually said that you fall under his power if you see his shikai being released. As far as I can tell, Ichigo only saw the shikai after it was released. Can anyone with more understanding of the Japanese tell us if this translation is correct?
I think you all are forgeting a important fact. Way back in ep 1 we see another plain of existence that is most likly the hollow dimension. Now in another ep that i cant recall, if i remeber correctly, there was a scene were we were taken to the hallow dimension, and we saw some shady figures of hallows. I cant recal the amount but i can recall that there was a head hallow commanding the rest.
I have a feeling this hallow has somthing to do with all of this, maby he was the one seen in the background of the menos grande's... or i could just be mixed up. But i will be rewatching the whole series soon to find out.
As for Aizen's almost god powers, its as most people have said, he only seems invincable because of his hypnosis power. If you are under his spell he can make you see, hear, feel and ultimatly think what he wants you too. As for gin, either he knows how to dispell the technique or Aizen keeps the technique from effecting gin.
I never read the manga, in this episode I still do not understand Tousen's motive at all. If anyone knows his motive please explain. Iam thinking he may betray Aizen and Gin but thats just a guess.
I kinda like the way this episode ened but it was too short.:(
I don't think anyone understands Tousen. Seems like everything has two meanings to him.
Poor Gin, he just wanted Matsumoto to hold him a little longer :p He doesnt' seem like a bad guy if you minus certain minor parts :D
Tousen was like "The path I walk is justice" and I went o.0. Did he really say that in the manga too? Makes him sound like he's really full of himself or something. Anyhow, did anyone see kenpachi in the great reunion of everyone? Eh, cos I didn't.
I thought Gin was sweet but in a way cruel to Rangiku. Poor girl.
Aizen!!!! &#@!&* He just sort of brushed through everyone and went all baddie. WOW. Great episode but ah, too short.
Owaranai Destiny
2005-12-22, 02:48
Tousen is said to want peace, isn't it? I think perhaps he believes this is the easiest way to achieve what he wants: By following and listening to Aizen, who has literally became a god already.
It's not just his zanpaku-to that gives him so much power over others. The fact that he could stop Ichigo's bankai with only a few fingers tells us as much how powerful he is.
Ichimaru
2005-12-22, 04:26
A question about aizens hypnosis, can he control those under his hypnosis to fight against their wishes, like have all the VC fight the captains.
NoSanninWa
2005-12-22, 06:03
No. The only thing he can do is to control their 5 senses while he is using his shikai.
The only way he can make them fight each other is to make them see enemies instead of their friends. He doesn't control their minds, only their perceptions. That is why he killed the Central 46 instead of making them his mind controlled slaves.
He has to be clever and strong to fulfill his dreams. He can't just make people bow down by using his shikai.
Aizen hypnosis isn't mind control, it basically control the 5 senses. He could probably however project his image onto his enemies causing his enemies to fight each others.
And for all the Ichigo fanboys. Ichigo was not hypnotized. To be hypnotize by Aizen you need to see the Release of his Shikai, not just by seeing his sword. Aizen whooped Ichigo's @ss fair and square. If Ichigo was more powerful than Aizen then there will be no point of continuing with the Anime/Manga.
Infact I would venture to say that if the Manga/Anime does well, there will be an even stronger Mega Boss out there in the deep of Hell waiting for Ichigo. :P
Ichimaru
2005-12-22, 09:58
This eps could raise alot of eyebrows. Since everyone is under Aizens hypnosis, why didnt he gather them all up into a spot and get Tousen to go bankai have them trap in his dark world, and have Aizen or Gin use destruction art 90 :D:D.
I think Gin knows destruction art 90, since he questioned Aizen about how he knew the technique, and aizen said sumthing along the lines that its not 1/3 of its powers and he couldnt control it, so he either hasnt mastered the technique. I think Gin knows it :D
KaneDragon
2005-12-22, 10:09
It wouldn't be so bad if this was a bankai, but getting this much mileage out of a stupid shikai is just unfair. Stupid hypnosis. There should be a way around it, maybe something about sensing spirit force... Whatever.
Maybe the Earth is all an illusion, too. Picture Aizen saying to Ichigo, "Welcome back, Mr. Anderson. We missed you...
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-22, 10:29
anyway..i didn't read the manga...so what the deal with they cooperate with menos grande, it is like they are searching friends to beat shinigami in the soul society,or they seeking another power using those menos grande? i think tousen is a complicated man we don't even know which justice is he upheld?sometimes his justice is right, sometimes it is very wrong...poor komamura, coz he believe in him all these times. i don't think Gin is a very bad man, he still say sorry to rangiku maybe he just follow captain aizen so gin also caught in this plan, no idea though, aizen tousen and gin can switch role easily from good person to bad person and from bad person to good person, what a villain they are!!Lol..
Ichimaru
2005-12-22, 10:36
Hey when Gin release Divine spear and it connected kuchiki, that better not be his shikai, cause if it is i be very sad, i expect him to have something stronger then that. That divine spear looks like that other technique he pulled on hitsugy with the sword comin out of nowhere
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-22, 10:58
i though it was his shikai, i never see the form of his shikai but he just do that everytime, like the one he use to hit jidanbou the big guy who is a gatekeeper, i thought it was the same move?
lavielove
2005-12-22, 11:11
Aizen is a lucky guy. Yoruichi and Soi Fong flocked together at the same time for him.
In my country's licensed version, yes. He did said "the moment he released his sword". However, I wondered if Kyokasuigetsu's released and sealed form are the same, make it impossible to notice.
What country is that, if you don't mind me asking?
Aizen is a lucky guy. Yoruichi and Soi Fong flocked together at the same time for him.
Y dun they kill him on the spot? With the room of 46 dead, there is nobody left to trial him. Besides, if they kill him on the spot, they have one less enemy to worry about.
Or r they really so scared of the "complete hypnosis"?
This eps could raise alot of eyebrows. Since everyone is under Aizens hypnosis, why didnt he gather them all up into a spot and get Tousen to go bankai have them trap in his dark world, and have Aizen or Gin use destruction art 90 :D:D.
I think Gin knows destruction art 90, since he questioned Aizen about how he knew the technique, and aizen said sumthing along the lines that its not 1/3 of its powers and he couldnt control it, so he either hasnt mastered the technique. I think Gin knows it :D
I disagree, Gin didn't seem to know what it was, he didn't realize that it was a weaker form(and it beat captain on the spot!). Why not kill everyone? Well... what usefulness is it to have everyone dead when you want to control them all?
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-22, 22:53
i think gin doesn't seem like someone who is a master of destructive arts, he's more like someone who is great in using his zanpaktou rather the magic..
wingdarkness
2005-12-23, 02:56
Well I guess I was pretty wrong about Aizen...He does have the ability to change the manipulation in his hypnosis at will and at any moment...I thought once he showed you he was manipulating you it was done, but as Fox-dude found out that ain't true...
Ok this is what i asked for :uhoh: ...I said I was ready for the SS arc to come to end and it did...However I didn't think it would end quite like this and expected atleast one more ridiculous fight before it was over...I really had confidence that when the light grabbed our 3 villians Zenpachi was gonna come outta nowhere and realese his bankai for the first time somehow thwarting their plans :( (since he was the only guy not at the reunion)...But to no avail, Aizen slicks his hair back as he appearently has given his soul up to the whateverthehellthosethingswere...
Aizen's looking for greatness eh? Living forever, having young loli's worship you and being the illest shinigami on the planet just ain't worth it now-a-days i guess :rolleyes:...Everything just ended so abrubtly and not with the climax I had anticipated...Our 3 villians just dissapearing and getting away kinda surprised me...I thought a greater battle was about to begin...Kinda of a letdown considering how good the series has been for the last 10 eps or so...
The preview of next episode tells me it's good bye SS, and Hello filler-Society...I don't mind much cause I kinda miss them being in school with Ichigo having to fight Hollows in the streets...And the cute chicks in High School with him and the comedy that ensues...just hope the filler is good...Nothings wrong with filler as long as it's good (Naruto shouldn't be the only example, some fillers are actually good)...
I read in NEWTYPE USA Dec 2005 addition that Bleach was slated for 70 episodes, but I guess that has to be incorrect unless an uber plot twist just is pulled outta the a$$...
Oh BTW :bow: @ Byakuya...Guess I misjudged his a$$...
I loved this ep! Definately one of my fav! And Byakuya was sooooooooooooo kakkooooooooooooi! *___* !
I also liked aizen without glasses....^^
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-23, 08:40
aizen really look like a top class villain without the glasses and he change his hair like that...lol...
D-Technolife
2005-12-23, 09:16
Y dun they kill him on the spot? With the room of 46 dead, there is nobody left to trial him. Besides, if they kill him on the spot, they have one less enemy to worry about.
Or r they really so scared of the "complete hypnosis"?
IF THEY DID, THEN THE ANIME WOULD BE LESS EXCITING!!! RYT!?!?!!?!:eyebrow:
noir senshi
2005-12-23, 18:52
I've posted the same question in the "Hollow Ichigo VS Aizen" thread but just thought some people might not read that thread so here goes...
About that lv90 Demon Art that Aizen beat Komamura with. When I watched that bit, I couldn't help but wonder if the Demon Art was an illusion and Aizen was making Komamura think he was being attacked by a Demon Art while Aizen just quickly slashed him a lot.
Just a thought.
Taylor--
2005-12-23, 19:24
I've posted the same question in the "Hollow Ichigo VS Aizen" thread but just thought some people might not read that thread so here goes...
About that lv90 Demon Art that Aizen beat Komamura with. When I watched that bit, I couldn't help but wonder if the Demon Art was an illusion and Aizen was making Komamura think he was being attacked by a Demon Art while Aizen just quickly slashed him a lot.
Just a thought.
Probably not, Aizen and Gin talked about it after Aizen used it.
ichigo fans
2005-12-23, 20:18
destructive art like Bk used , it is to make then person unable to move when he fight with Renji...
how many destructive art are there?? lolz
I'm guessing thousands. Each spell can range from various levels.
Komomura got beaten with just one kidou attack, Aizen is definitely something. Even if he is surrounded for a moment by all vice-captains and captains, he still maintains that calm and menacing attitude of his.
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-23, 21:33
i think it is the real destructive art, not another illusion. btw if he says that the power is only 1/3 of it, i wonder if the can spell a full power destructive art, surely komamura will be dead there..
i think it is the real destructive art, not another illusion. btw if he says that the power is only 1/3 of it, i wonder if the can spell a full power destructive art, surely komamura will be dead there..
I guess Komamura is lucky that Aizen hasn't fully mastered it yet huh?
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-23, 21:50
yeah..if the full power destructive art is unleashed by aizen back there, there isn't nothing left of komamura's body right now, it will be sliced up neatly to pieces..lol..aizen is one dangerous man for sure...
To add to that, he is not even using his bankai nor the full potential of his shikai. All he do is just use hypnotism. There must be more he can do with his Kyoukasuigetsu.
OMFG why do people keep thinking Ichigo got his Hollow half from Rukia?! It's incomprehensible. Seriously it makes me think people never even watched the past eps at all. How would Ichigo get his Hollow half from Rukia if she got her fake body (With Hougyoku inside it) AFTER she gave her powers to Ichigo? Getting it from Rukia doesn't even make any sense whatsoever.
Some people really need to improve their reading comprehension skills.
/rant off
OMFG why do people keep thinking Ichigo got his Hollow half from Rukia?! It's incomprehensible. Seriously it makes me think people never even watched the past eps at all. How would Ichigo get his Hollow half from Rukia if she got her fake body (With Hougyoku inside it) AFTER she gave her powers to Ichigo? Getting it from Rukia doesn't even make any sense whatsoever.
I have to admit that when I first saw the chapter in which the Hougyouku was mention, I thought he got it from her, but then I realised it doesn't make any sense. My new theory involves Shiba Kaien.
D-Technolife
2005-12-24, 01:01
may Isshin-san iss related to kaien don't you think!?... i mean look at the facts..... there maybe a connection between them or better yet with ichigo... maybe kaien-dono is ichigos brother!!!! ....
NoSanninWa
2005-12-24, 01:02
I've posted the same question in the "Hollow Ichigo VS Aizen" thread but just thought some people might not read that thread so here goes...
About that lv90 Demon Art that Aizen beat Komamura with. When I watched that bit, I couldn't help but wonder if the Demon Art was an illusion and Aizen was making Komamura think he was being attacked by a Demon Art while Aizen just quickly slashed him a lot.
Just a thought.
You need to remember that Aizen was saying that once you maximize the three types of arts, sword arts, movement arts and demon arts, then there just isn't any way to get stronger. That's why he needs the Hougyouku. He has already hit his limit and can't get any stronger. If this is true, then it is safe to assume that his awesome demon arts aren't an illusion.
Heck, maybe he even caught Ichigo's blade between two fingers, fair-and-square. He is so strong that he can't get any stronger as a mere shinigami.
Iam guessing that Ichigo got that Hallow form while he was training at Uhara's place. You remember, When Ichigo was about to transform into a hollow but he fought back and at the end he had a Hallow mask on then ripped it off.
NoSanninWa
2005-12-24, 01:31
Iam guessing that Ichigo got that Hallow form while he was training at Uhara's place. You remember, When Ichigo was about to transform into a hollow but he fought back and at the end he had a Hallow mask on then ripped it off.
You are a bit late to that discussion. That is one of two possibilities.
The other possibility is that after Kaien was soul-merged with a hollow and killed by Rukia, he got reincarnated as Ichigo. (That hollow was created by Aizen as an experimental method of combining a hollow with a shinigami.) Death and rebirth might have purified the combination. (Another word for purify is Bleach.) If this is true, then Ichigo's hollow was always inside of him waiting for the opportunity to show itself.
The other possibility is that after Kaien was soul-merged with a hollow and killed by Rukia, he got reincarnated as Ichigo. (That hollow was created by Aizen as an experimental method of combining a hollow with a shinigami.) Death and rebirth might have purified the combination. (Another word for purify is Bleach.) If this is true, then Ichigo's hollow was always inside of him waiting for the opportunity to show itself.
That's my preferred theory...
Morisato
2005-12-24, 03:23
Just so people know, next episode is NOT a filler episode. It IS in the MANGA.
wingdarkness
2005-12-24, 03:33
I guess that's you laffing at me Morisato...Hmm, wonder why?? Is it because I was wrong about Byakuya?? He actually did have a pretty awesome reason for acting like he acted...I don't know if Bleach has great writing right now or just pulling it out there a$$ as they go along...But Byakuya has earned my respect...since I don't read manga I had the right to feel the way I did about him when i didn't know he was actually a stand-up guy...
Last_Hope
2005-12-24, 04:38
I guess that's you laffing at me Morisato...Hmm, wonder why?? Is it because I was wrong about Byakuya?? He actually did have a pretty awesome reason for acting like he acted...I don't know if Bleach has great writing right now or just pulling it out there a$$ as they go along...But Byakuya has earned my respect...since I don't read manga I had the right to feel the way I did about him when i didn't know he was actually a stand-up guy...
I agree, Byakuya really earned a lot of respect, although I though he was a little :upset: when he needed to hold hands and stuff with Rukia.:p
But I could see his dilemma, a promise towards his parents or a promise towards his love? Now he was able to keep them both. That also gave the scene where he didn´t meet Rukia´s eyes, when she was about to be executed, quite a meaning.
By the way, are shinigamis immortal? Immortal to the degree that they don´t die of age and/or diseases?
By the way, are shinigamis immortal? Immortal to the degree that they don´t die of age and/or diseases?
Nope. Ukitake is suffering from an ailment which may shorten his life.
Last_Hope
2005-12-24, 05:35
Nope. Ukitake is suffering from an ailment which may shorten his life.
Aha, I thought that they were like the elves in LOTR, they can only die if they are killed. Thanks for the answer anyway. :)
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-24, 07:21
ukitake never look really well since appearing in the anime, he look so sick, coughing most of the times, hopefully he doesn't die soon, coz he never show his ability fully just yet...lol..
I guess that's you laffing at me Morisato...Hmm, wonder why?? Is it because I was wrong about Byakuya?? He actually did have a pretty awesome reason for acting like he acted...I don't know if Bleach has great writing right now or just pulling it out there a$$ as they go along...But Byakuya has earned my respect...since I don't read manga I had the right to feel the way I did about him when i didn't know he was actually a stand-up guy...
I bet Morisato doesn't even know what the hell you are talking about. Try monir. It might know. :heh:
Happy Christmas to ya all!
VC Matsumoto
2005-12-24, 11:54
Maybe I watch too much of this crazy anime, but doesn't that song from SoaD, Hypnotize, go well with this Ep. (62) of Bleach? (Just play the first 60 sec.'s of that song while watching Aizen rises towards his Menos buddies!)
VC
wingdarkness
2005-12-24, 18:46
OK I did say i respect Byakuya now and kinda misjudged him, but something still bothers me...In his fight with Youru-chan then Renji he is still EXTREMELY arrogant and even downright scummish in his belittling of Renji...I know we found out he wanted to uphold SS rules for breaking them with Rukia, but that still doesn't explain why he acted so smug to Renji...he could have simply killed him without spitting on his pride in the process...To think i almost forgot about the reasons I hated Byakuya just because of his heart-wrenched scene with Rukia in ep 61...
Makes me think the Bleach writers may have pulled the softer, gentler Byakuya outta their behinds...I expected him to talk to Ichigo in that manner, but he basically raped Renji of his pride as a man...and Renji was like his right-hand man (All he had to do was stop him)...So I guess I'm re-thinking alot now...Maybe he should go over to Renji and apologize aswell...If I was Renji i don't know If I could accept that $hit...
Hidden Heart
2005-12-24, 19:31
OK I did say i respect Byakuya now and kinda misjudged him, but something still bothers me...In his fight with Youru-chan then Renji he is still EXTREMELY arrogant and even downright scummish in his belittling of Renji...I know we found out he wanted to uphold SS rules for breaking them with Rukia, but that still doesn't explain why he acted so smug to Renji...he could have simply killed him without spitting on his pride in the process...To think i almost forgot about the reasons I hated Byakuya just because of his heart-wrenched scene with Rukia in ep 61...
Makes me think the Bleach writers may have pulled the softer, gentler Byakuya outta their behinds...I expected him to talk to Ichigo in that manner, but he basically raped Renji of his pride as a man...and Renji was like his right-hand man (All he had to do was stop him)...So I guess I'm re-thinking alot now...Maybe he should go over to Renji and apologize aswell...If I was Renji i don't know If I could accept that $hit...
I guess Byakuya just doesn't like Renji,
Do captains pick their lieutenants?
mullinsmcd
2005-12-24, 21:18
Can someone explain to me what the one 4th squad guy in glasses meant by "they are the soul society saviors " ? How does that make any sense? Sure they caused trouble and avoided the execution so Rukias still alive, but they didnt save anyone else. Aizen still got what he ultimately wanted. No one got saved from any less injuries in fact more ppl got WHOOPED UP ON thanks to them, and like a whole fuckload of reg deathgods got pummeled by Ichigos crew. What exactly did they do that helped the situation.
The only thing is that they saved Rukias life, but that hardly qualifies as saving soul society!! Anyone else seeing something that i dont see?
I think maybe he means that they catalyzed the uncovering of Aizen's plans. If the ryoka hadn't broken in, who knows how long Aizen & Co. could have just manipulated the Gotei 13 and SS by controlling Central 46 decisions.
ScytheBlade
2005-12-24, 22:50
ukitake never look really well since appearing in the anime, he look so sick, coughing most of the times, hopefully he doesn't die soon, coz he never show his ability fully just yet...lol..
One really weird thing is why Unohana doesn't heal him :heh: .
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-24, 23:04
yeah..i wonder also..maybe the sickness is something that even unohana(4th squad captain) can't heal it. It is a pity though, coz ukitake seems to be a strong guy, but the sickness probably limit his power.
NoSanninWa
2005-12-25, 01:30
OK I did say i respect Byakuya now and kinda misjudged him, but something still bothers me...In his fight with Youru-chan then Renji he is still EXTREMELY arrogant and even downright scummish in his belittling of Renji...I know we found out he wanted to uphold SS rules for breaking them with Rukia, but that still doesn't explain why he acted so smug to Renji...he could have simply killed him without spitting on his pride in the process...To think i almost forgot about the reasons I hated Byakuya just because of his heart-wrenched scene with Rukia in ep 61...
Makes me think the Bleach writers may have pulled the softer, gentler Byakuya outta their behinds...I expected him to talk to Ichigo in that manner, but he basically raped Renji of his pride as a man...and Renji was like his right-hand man (All he had to do was stop him)...So I guess I'm re-thinking alot now...Maybe he should go over to Renji and apologize aswell...If I was Renji i don't know If I could accept that $hit...
Maybe it was because Renji was his right-hand man. The way you treat a stranger that stands up to you is different from the way you treat a traitor. Despite being his vice-captain, Renji betrayed his trust and attacked him. Not just attacked him, but actually said that the whole time he was working for Byakuya he was waiting for the day that he could lay the smackdown on his own captain.
Can you really blame Byakuya for rubbing it into Renji's face that he turned on him too quickly?
ScytheBlade
2005-12-25, 01:34
yeah..i wonder also..maybe the sickness is something that even unohana(4th squad captain) can't heal it. It is a pity though, coz ukitake seems to be a strong guy, but the sickness probably limit his power.
And we thought Unohana's great healing power made her a captain :) .
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-25, 02:12
yeah..maybe his sickness is something that even Unohana hasn't find the cure yet, but i think we will know sooner or later right?lol...
Srin Tuar
2005-12-25, 02:21
I think maybe he means that they catalyzed the uncovering of Aizen's plans. If the ryoka hadn't broken in, who knows how long Aizen & Co. could have just manipulated the Gotei 13 and SS by controlling Central 46 decisions.
Well, it seems like the ryouka were also part of his plan from the beginning too,
and that unohana was the real player involved in getting the truth out.
I dont know why aisen didnt spend a few seconds to silence her, the man must
have a really tight schedule to adhere to...
Ichigo & friends were really just trying to save Rukia from a death-sentence.
They did the best they could, ultimately she's only alive because of byakuya's
well timed shunpo.
So why are the ryouka Soul Society's Onjin ??
Perhaps because off the captains and vice captains, their cause was just
from the very beginning. That not of them had the foresight, even
Ukitake and Shinsui were a bit late to put their common sense ahead of
simply following orders blindly.
So despite being cruical pawns for Aizen, they are also natural allies of the
Gotei 13. Weird, but because of that, interesting... kamo
wingdarkness
2005-12-25, 02:30
Maybe it was because Renji was his right-hand man. The way you treat a stranger that stands up to you is different from the way you treat a traitor. Despite being his vice-captain, Renji betrayed his trust and attacked him. Not just attacked him, but actually said that the whole time he was working for Byakuya he was waiting for the day that he could lay the smackdown on his own captain.
Can you really blame Byakuya for rubbing it into Renji's face that he turned on him too quickly?
Renji was just trying to save face...If somebody pi$$ess on you it's just human nature to want to pi$$ back...He was trying to hurt Byakuya's feelings as retribution...Did he say that before or after Byakuya belittled him as a worthless pion?? A no-count who would never be anywhere in his class...Why not just kill him and or stop him in his tracks...Byakuya had looked down on him far before that moment...It's safe to assume he always thought of Renji as trash compared to himself (Unfortunatley it seemed he was right as Renji really got smoked more than any character in the series)...I mean with this so-called "internal struggle" he was having, he sure found the time to sharpen his belittling skills on Renji (knowing he was fighting for what he supposedly was so torn up about in his own heart)...
It's one thing to want to uphold the rules of SS, it's another thing to dismiss the words of his sempai's and other captains as if even entertaining them is beneath him...Maybe this was the only way he could keep himself sane struggling with his decision (Damn did he hide it well), but these were the things that made me not like him...If somebody is calling me a piece of $hit and I've already determined I'm gonna fight for the girl I love regardless, I'm sure I would have said something like Renji did when the cards had already been played...
Hidden Heart
2005-12-25, 15:14
I wonder who is going to take Aizen, gin, and Tousens' place
I believe that is 5th, 3rd, and 9th captains. I mean the only other 2 to achieve bankai are Renji, and Ichigo and I doubt Ichigo will take it.
I also wonder what Yourichi's and Urahara's bankais were. (or is)
Basically you're right. They didn't really save Soul Society. But IMHO they were important for revealing Aizen's plan!
What would have happened, if they didn't turn up?
Aizen wouldn't have been able to fake his death... everyone would have gone to the execution, Rukia would have been executed, and Aizen could have prevented the others from seeing the Hougyoku with his Shikai, picking it up after everyone left the place. Later he could have vanished without someone noticing, even letting Gin and Tousen behind as spies/sleepers.
Nobody in SoulSociety would have the slightest idea of what's really going on.
not to mention he would still be able to issue commands to SS and manipulate things to his favor even more. He could throw anyone who got suspicious of him in jail for treason. He could also get soul society destroyed from just afew orders
NoSanninWa
2005-12-25, 17:30
Renji was just trying to save face...If somebody pi$$ess on you it's just human nature to want to pi$$ back...He was trying to hurt Byakuya's feelings as retribution...Did he say that before or after Byakuya belittled him as a worthless pion?? A no-count who would never be anywhere in his class...Why not just kill him and or stop him in his tracks...Byakuya had looked down on him far before that moment...It's safe to assume he always thought of Renji as trash compared to himself (Unfortunatley it seemed he was right as Renji really got smoked more than any character in the series)...I mean with this so-called "internal struggle" he was having, he sure found the time to sharpen his belittling skills on Renji (knowing he was fighting for what he supposedly was so torn up about in his own heart)...
It's one thing to want to uphold the rules of SS, it's another thing to dismiss the words of his sempai's and other captains as if even entertaining them is beneath him...Maybe this was the only way he could keep himself sane struggling with his decision (Damn did he hide it well), but these were the things that made me not like him...If somebody is calling me a piece of $hit and I've already determined I'm gonna fight for the girl I love regardless, I'm sure I would have said something like Renji did when the cards had already been played...
As I was reading this, I was wondering...
Is it possible that Byakuya was really upset with Renji for not being strong enough to win? Honestly, Byakuya probably wanted to be defeated, but Renji was just a punk without the bite to match his bark, so he kept trash-talking Renji, hoping that Reji'd find the jets to win. Hoping that this little pissant would find a way to save his sister. Didn't work of course. Compared to Byakuya's mojo, Renji really is just a punk.
... that might be the real reason Byakuya was dissing Renji so bad... Renji was just a pissant, when Byakuya needed a hero.
I wonder who is going to take Aizen, gin, and Tousens' place
I believe that is 5th, 3rd, and 9th captains. I mean the only other 2 to achieve bankai are Renji, and Ichigo and I doubt Ichigo will take it.
I also wonder what Yourichi's and Urahara's bankais were. (or is)
Well, to be honest, I don't think that will be their top priority. They need to replace the entirety of Central 46 first. Remember, Kenpachi is a Captain, and he doesn't have a Bankai. Bankai isn't a requirement to be a Captain, it's just an option you can take in your quest to become a Captain. And anyways, it will probably be the new Central 46's decision as to who will become the new Captains...unless the current Captains make suggestions, or certain individuals step forward (ie - Renji...possibly...).
If I remember correctedly, Tousen said there are 3 ways to became captain. I can't remember another 2 ways but Ban Kai is definitely requirement in those ways.
The only possible way to became captain without Ban Kai is Kenpachi's way, defeated former captain who supposed to have Ban Kai.
It's a requirement the other two ways, but what I mean is that not every possible way for a Shinigami to become Captain involves them possessing a Bankai. Thus, Bankai is not an all-encompassing requirement to become a Captain.
Actually, even in the manga (I'm going by translations, so I guess it's not definite), there was no mention that Bankai was 100% necessary to become a Captain.
(I'm putting it in a spoiler tag even though it was shown in the anime already...don't ask me why >_>)
As Tousen says in my translation of the manga: "A Shinigami can be promoted to a Captain in one of three ways.
The first way is to take and pass a test under the supervision of at least 3 Captains, which must include the Commander.
The 2nd way is to get a referral from 6 or more Captains, and receive the approval from at least 3 of the 7 remaining Captains.
Finally, the 3rd and last method is...to defeat the previous Captain in a one-on-one battle, witnessed by 200 or more members of the corresponding division."
It's true that Yoruichi told Ichigo that Zaraki Kenpachi is the only Captain ever to reach that rank without achieving Bankai, meaning every other Captain in history possessed Bankai, she never did say anything about it being a requirement to becoming a Captain.
I'm not trying to say that you don't need Bankai to become a Captain (personally, I think you do, and Kenpachi is the only exception), but what I'm saying is that it never clearly stated anywhere that unless you choose the 3rd method to try and become a Captain, you MUST have achieved Bankai.
It's a requirement the other two ways, but what I mean is that not every possible way for a Shinigami to become Captain involves them possessing a Bankai. Thus, Bankai is not an all-encompassing requirement to become a Captain.
Actually, even in the manga (I'm going by translations, so I guess it's not definite), there was no mention that Bankai was 100% necessary to become a Captain.
(I'm putting it in a spoiler tag even though it was shown in the anime already...don't ask me why >_>)
As Tousen says in my translation of the manga: "A Shinigami can be promoted to a Captain in one of three ways.
The first way is to take and pass a test under the supervision of at least 3 Captains, which must include the Commander.
The 2nd way is to get a referral from 6 or more Captains, and receive the approval from at least 3 of the 7 remaining Captains.
Finally, the 3rd and last method is...to defeat the previous Captain in a one-on-one battle, witnessed by 200 or more members of the corresponding division."
It's true that Yoruichi told Ichigo that Zaraki Kenpachi is the only Captain ever to reach that rank without achieving Bankai, meaning every other Captain in history possessed Bankai, she never did say anything about it being a requirement to becoming a Captain.
I'm not trying to say that you don't need Bankai to become a Captain (personally, I think you do, and Kenpachi is the only exception), but what I'm saying is that it never clearly stated anywhere that unless you choose the 3rd method to try and become a Captain, you MUST have achieved Bankai.
Of course, it would be difficult to pass these tests or get referrals if you didn't have ban kai.
Of course, it would be difficult to pass these tests or get referrals if you didn't have ban kai.
There's a difference between difficult and impossible though. :p Again, like I said, there just isn't any real concrete proof that Bankai is absolutely necessary to become a Captain through the other two methods. Since we don't know what these tests entail, it's all speculation on that as well.
Hisoka??
2005-12-26, 02:08
It's a requirement the other two ways, but what I mean is that not every possible way for a Shinigami to become Captain involves them possessing a Bankai. Thus, Bankai is not an all-encompassing requirement to become a Captain.
Actually, even in the manga (I'm going by translations, so I guess it's not definite), there was no mention that Bankai was 100% necessary to become a Captain.
(I'm putting it in a spoiler tag even though it was shown in the anime already...don't ask me why >_>)
As Tousen says in my translation of the manga: "A Shinigami can be promoted to a Captain in one of three ways.
The first way is to take and pass a test under the supervision of at least 3 Captains, which must include the Commander.
The 2nd way is to get a referral from 6 or more Captains, and receive the approval from at least 3 of the 7 remaining Captains.
Finally, the 3rd and last method is...to defeat the previous Captain in a one-on-one battle, witnessed by 200 or more members of the corresponding division."
It's true that Yoruichi told Ichigo that Zaraki Kenpachi is the only Captain ever to reach that rank without achieving Bankai, meaning every other Captain in history possessed Bankai, she never did say anything about it being a requirement to becoming a Captain.
I'm not trying to say that you don't need Bankai to become a Captain (personally, I think you do, and Kenpachi is the only exception), but what I'm saying is that it never clearly stated anywhere that unless you choose the 3rd method to try and become a Captain, you MUST have achieved Bankai.
i'll just add that i suspect the 3 ways were"as of this moment". i'm pretty sure that before kenpachi it was only 2 ways(from the statement that kenpachi was the onle one who did it by the defeat captain way). therefore it is very possible that due to this dire circumstances they could just decide to implement a 4th way.....
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-26, 02:09
i think either komamura or tousen said to zaraki that zaraki becomes a captain with killing a previous captain, therefore he doesn't have any bankai and can become a captain..
I thought Yoruichi said that a bankai is a prerequiste?
Kenpachi_19
2005-12-26, 02:27
i think using one of the 3 ways that tousen explained is enough to be a captain, doesn't need a bankai to become a captain..
porchoky
2005-12-26, 02:33
I think having bankai makes it a ton easier to achieve the power to become a captain.
a litlte off topic, but about the whole ichigo as a ressurection from azien's expiriment, was that in the anime, or a manga thing? or both?.........
niether, as of now, its just a speculation. i'd have to say though, it's a pretty good theory.
hitokirigirl
2005-12-26, 16:22
Great episode. I just love that kind of eps where 100 stuff happen in the same time :heh:
But truly, the way Aizen dropped his glasses and put his hair behind ruins all his coolness :twitch: He was way better before...
Besides, I suspect Gin to have some hidden agenda, just like Kabuto. He looks more intelligent than that, and won't follow Aizen without gaining sthg from it. We will see...
nolanvoid
2005-12-26, 20:01
OMFG why do people keep thinking Ichigo got his Hollow half from Rukia?! It's incomprehensible. Seriously it makes me think people never even watched the past eps at all. How would Ichigo get his Hollow half from Rukia if she got her fake body (With Hougyoku inside it) AFTER she gave her powers to Ichigo? Getting it from Rukia doesn't even make any sense whatsoever.
Some people really need to improve their reading comprehension skills.
/rant off
the fake body has nothing to do with the hougkyu except that it hides it.
it was already in her soul. so my threory isnt completely foiled.
DrunkenRyder
2005-12-26, 20:18
To Possibly End The Rumors on How Ichigo Obtained Hollow:
1. Have you forgotten his training with Urahara?
2. When he was training he had the straight jacket of doom on, he put this on to obtain shikai. The deal was he was supose to escape from the jacket and climb to the top of the hole, if he did this he could obtain shikai, but if he failed he would turn into a hollow. (im sorry if this isnt the fully correct theory, Im trying to remember without downloading the episode again).
3. Ichigo manages to pass the test at the last second, hence he only turned half hollow..
Make sense?
Illuyankas
2005-12-26, 21:12
Yes, else how would Aizen find it's location from documents in SS AFTER Urahara was exiled?
Owaranai Destiny
2005-12-26, 21:48
Are you saying that Hougyuku was already inside Rukia's soul even before she met with Urahara after she loses her power to Ichigo in episode 1?
I'm guessing that Urahara did put the Hougyoku into the fake body already and Ruki's loss of shinigami powers gave him a little chance that he would actually be able to hide it from the people who want it.
2. When he was training he had the straight jacket of doom on, he put this on to obtain shikai. The deal was he was supose to escape from the jacket and climb to the top of the hole, if he did this he could obtain shikai, but if he failed he would turn into a hollow. (im sorry if this isnt the fully correct theory, Im trying to remember without downloading the episode again).
This isn't entirely correct. The shaft was meant as a way for Ichigo to regain his Shinigami powers. It wasn't to obtain Shikai, he had to regain his Shinigami powers before he could attempt to achieve Shikai. While in the shaft, he basically had two choices. He would either escape the shaft and regain his Shinigami abilities, or he would fail and turn into a Hollow. Somehow...he seemed to do a bit of both... :p
The third test, trying to knock off Urahara's hat, would be the test for Ichigo to obtain Shikai. It was never said outright, but it makes sense, based on Urahara's actions and his words.
DrunkenRyder
2005-12-26, 22:10
This isn't entirely correct. The shaft was meant as a way for Ichigo to regain his Shinigami powers. It wasn't to obtain Shikai, he had to regain his Shinigami powers before he could attempt to achieve Shikai. While in the shaft, he basically had two choices. He would either escape the shaft and regain his Shinigami abilities, or he would fail and turn into a Hollow. Somehow...he seemed to do a bit of both... :p
The third test, trying to knock off Urahara's hat, would be the test for Ichigo to obtain Shikai. It was never said outright, but it makes sense, based on Urahara's actions and his words.
Oh I was in the right church, just the wrong pew :eyespin:
Illuyankas
2005-12-26, 23:55
After looking through Urahara's documents, he found out about the existence of Hougyuku, it's whereabouts in Rukia, and ways to retrieve it (execution and yoda-hand).
Technically speaking...it all depends on when Urahara and Yoruichi left Soul Society. It is possible that he stuck around long enough to meet Rukia before leaving Soul Society...seeing as he was a Captain and Rukia was part of the Gotei 13.
What location is Aizen found from documents? I thought he found a way to get Hougyuku out of soul.
Yeah, it was never truly explained how Aizen knew that the Hou Gyoku was inside of Rukia. The documents he retrieved were indeed just to learn of a way to remove the Hou Gyoku from a spirit.
More interestingly though...I've seen some mention of how the Hou Gyoku is only capable of allowing a Hollow to gain Shinigami powers, but not allowing Shinigamis to gain Hollow powers. Aizen did indeed focus his experimentation on the conversion of a Hollow into a Shinigami, but that's not all that the Hou Gyoku was capable of. This is taken from Aizen's dialogue in chapter 175, on the 12th page (this is ****'s release...other groups releases will probably differ in dialogue slightly).
However none of them were advanced to be called a "new being". Our lack of knowledge impaired us and we were unable to find a way to create that "new being". Urahara Kisuke was the one who succeeded where we failed. He created a mechanism that could instantaneously transform a Hollow into a Shinigami and vice-versa, and it was something that defied all logic within Soul Society.
Doing a quick check, it seems that other sources (namely #### and %%%%) chose to interpret that differently and simply put it as "instantly dissolve/erase the barrier between Hollow and Shinigami". Despite not being as straight-forward as ****'s choice of words...it does seem to imply that Hou Gyoku could work both ways...and not just one way.
You may be right, I can't find when Rukia mentioned her age(when did she mention it? I want to check it myself) so I have to stick with what I can remember.
But now that make me wonder why he has to give her his special fake body, are there someway to detect Hougyuku? I mean....it's his fake body which stop SS from being able to trace Rukia that cause Aizen to notices. Assuming there are no way to tell if Hougyuku is inside someone, wouldn't it safer to let Rukia lives normally?
Somehow Aizen obtained the knowledge that the Hou Gyoku was hidden within Rukia. Thus, in order to safeguard it, Urahara gave the special gigai to Rukia. It sucks up spirit power, so it would be impossible for anyone from Soul Society to track her. I guess he was anticipating that some individuals would come after the Hou Gyoku...though it was quite a coincedence in how Rukia come into needing that gigai (or was it? :p)
hitokirigirl
2005-12-28, 07:35
Something else that should be mentionned is that Aizen is buddy with Hollows, or at least specially with Menos grande.
It could perhaps mean that he gets the hint from his "comrades", but not sure of that...
i really can't wait for ep 63 but my main wondering is what will be happening to our heros and heroins since they are now at the mercy of an unstable police force
NoSanninWa
2005-12-28, 18:26
Considering that one of those "unstable" individuals just referred to them as "Soul Society's Saviours" it is probable that they aren't going to get thrown in the hoosgow for trying to stop Aizen's plot.
nolanvoid
2005-12-29, 07:47
I'm guessing that Urahara did put the Hougyoku into the fake body already and Ruki's loss of shinigami powers gave him a little chance that he would actually be able to hide it from the people who want it.
The hogyoku is said specifically to hide in a soul... thus you cannot hide it in a gigai, it was hidden in rukia a long time ago. whereupon the gigai hid her soul. ( and hiding the hogkyou as a secondary effect)
thus my theory that Ichigo got it from her stands.
I'm a bit late to this discussion but I was burning time reading it over and noticed one incorrect thing constantly being repeated:
I think Gin knows destruction art 90, since he questioned Aizen about how he knew the technique, and aizen said sumthing along the lines that its not 1/3 of its powers and he couldnt control it, so he either hasnt mastered the technique. I think Gin knows it :D
Gin didn't question Aizen about knowing the technique, he was surprised that Aizen could perform it without the incantation. Aizen's response was that he didn't do it properly and messed up; hence, it was "only" 1/3 of its potential power.
If somebody pi$$ess on you it's just human nature to want to pi$$ back...
Really? My human nature would be to clean my face off and to stay away from that person unless their pants were on :)
Really? My human nature would be to clean my face off and to stay away from that person unless their pants were on :)
:heh:
Yeah, that would be my course of action too!
Ichimaru
2005-12-30, 12:33
In eps61 when aizen pwned ichigo, and the dude was lyin on the ground, why didnt aizen show ichigo his bankai, so layter on he wont have the trouble of fightin ichigo again.
Then in eps 62 when aizen was leavin through that force field, and all the captains...were all on the ground lookin at him leaving, why didnt he go bankai and have all of them under his hypnosis?
In eps61 when aizen pwned ichigo, and the dude was lyin on the ground, why didnt aizen show ichigo his bankai, so layter on he wont have the trouble of fightin ichigo again.
Then in eps 62 when aizen was leavin through that force field, and all the captains...were all on the ground lookin at him leaving, why didnt he go bankai and have all of them under his hypnosis?
His Absolute Hypnosis is his Shikai, not Bankai.
NoSanninWa
2005-12-30, 12:42
In eps61 when aizen pwned ichigo, and the dude was lyin on the ground, why didnt aizen show ichigo his bankai, so layter on he wont have the trouble of fightin ichigo again.
Then in eps 62 when aizen was leavin through that force field, and all the captains...were all on the ground lookin at him leaving, why didnt he go bankai and have all of them under his hypnosis?
First of all, his bankai doesn't do the "absolute hypnosis" power. That is his shikai. We've never seen his bankai. It is pretty clear that he can kill absolutely anyone without using his bankai.
I'm uncertain exactly what you are asking, but as for why he didn't kill them all, it is possible that there is a limit to how many people he can kill at a time. Perhaps he can't control what everyone is seeing at the same time while fighting seriously against them. I'm speculating here, but it is actually possible that he does not yet possess omnipotent power. True omnipotence is going to belong to him once he learns how to properly use the Hougyoku.
If you question is why he didn't kill Ichigo, before the whole crowd showed up I'd have to guess. I suspect it might be because he thought that Ichigo is meaningless. A more interetesting question is why he thought it was important to kill Rukia! Is it possible that there is still a connection between Rukia and the Hougyoku? If this is true, it is a good thing that everyone showed up so that he had to run before he managed to finish killing her.
scorpio516
2005-12-30, 19:17
Can someone explain to me what the one 4th squad guy in glasses meant by "they are the soul society saviors " ? How does that make any sense? Sure they caused trouble and avoided the execution so Rukias still alive, but they didnt save anyone else. Aizen still got what he ultimately wanted. No one got saved from any less injuries in fact more ppl got WHOOPED UP ON thanks to them, and like a whole fuckload of reg deathgods got pummeled by Ichigos crew. What exactly did they do that helped the situation.
The only thing is that they saved Rukias life, but that hardly qualifies as saving soul society!! Anyone else seeing something that i dont see?
If you remember back before Aizen's fake body was killed, someone said that the exicution polearm was the most popular weapon in all of the SS. AND it'd get even more powerful, powerful enough to destroy all of SS, after it killed Rukia. So maybe the guy assumes that Aizen would have used the powered up ploearm after getting his treasure to destroy SS on his way out.
scorpio516
2005-12-30, 19:26
I think having bankai makes it a ton easier to achieve the power to become a captain.
I'm sure the test way includes a bankai demonstration.
I'm sure inorder to get 9 out of the 12 captians to approve of you, they'd demand the bankai.
So that leaves the combat infront of 200 squad members.
And seeing just how powerful bankai's are, it makes perfect sense that unless your crazy-ass Kenpachi (or Ichigo), your not gonna beat the incumbant captain in combat.
If you remember back before Aizen's fake body was killed, someone said that the exicution polearm was the most popular weapon in all of the SS. AND it'd get even more powerful, powerful enough to destroy all of SS, after it killed Rukia. So maybe the guy assumes that Aizen would have used the powered up ploearm after getting his treasure to destroy SS on his way out.
Aizen's only mention of the Soukyoku was that it'd have the power to rend the... uh, Hougyoku from Rukia's body. The anime led us to believe that Gin was the evil one, and that he wanted to somehow harness the power of the Soukyoku upon its release. Aizen seemingly didn't care for it.
As for the remark about the "ryoka" being Soul Society's saviors, I think that he just meant that they'd brought the entire Aizen thing to light. After all, if it hadn't been for them, all of the shinigami likely would've never suspected a thing. Aizen got his way in the end anyway, but thanks to the disruption caused by Ichigo and company, events unfolded that allowed for the captains to figure out what was really going on.
As for the remark about the "ryoka" being Soul Society's saviors, I think that he just meant that they'd brought the entire Aizen thing to light. After all, if it hadn't been for them, all of the shinigami likely would've never suspected a thing. Aizen got his way in the end anyway, but thanks to the disruption caused by Ichigo and company, events unfolded that allowed for the captains to figure out what was really going on.
Bleh, you beat me to it. Spent too much time in the "creativity" thread... :sad:
eLcHaKeTeRo
2005-12-31, 05:16
yeah i got that too...i was wondering at first
eLcHaKeTeRo
2005-12-31, 05:27
Really? My human nature would be to clean my face off and to stay away from that person unless their pants were on :)[/QUOTE]
i dont want to know.....
If spells lvl 99 are that hard to do, does it make of Tessai (Urahara's friend) a badass ?
In ep 19, he does a binding spell lvl 99 on Ichigo.
I don't think he did the incantation either, he cast the spell when Ichigo was falling in the hole (before he recovered his powers)
D-Technolife
2006-01-01, 01:51
Whos is Tessai anyway!?!?! Where is he from!??!?!?! Was he a strong powerful force in SS before?!?!
Whos is Tessai anyway!?!?! Where is he from!??!?!?! Was he a strong powerful force in SS before?!?!
Tessai is that guy who works for Urahara. He's the big, built guy with glasses who surpressed Ichigo when he was in the shattering shaft. As for where he's from or if he was a strong force in Soul Society previously...no light has been shed on that at all. All we know is that he works for Urahara, and seems to be quite proficient in Kidou.
eLcHaKeTeRo
2006-01-01, 02:29
If spells lvl 99 are that hard to do, does it make of Tessai (Urahara's friend) a badass ?
In ep 19, he does a binding spell lvl 99 on Ichigo.
I don't think he did the incantation either, he cast the spell when Ichigo was falling in the hole (before he recovered his powers)
yeah i completly forgot about that part he did do a lvl 9o-something binding spell on him to subdue him...........hey, wait a min....was that spell to kill ichigo cus he was turnin into a hollow?
and i was also wondering where he came from and what kinda connection he had to SS...also Jinta and the little girl
If spells lvl 99 are that hard to do, does it make of Tessai (Urahara's friend) a badass ?
In ep 19, he does a binding spell lvl 99 on Ichigo.
I don't think he did the incantation either, he cast the spell when Ichigo was falling in the hole (before he recovered his powers)
Someone brought this up on another thread in this forum. The response was that defensive spells are much easier to pull off than offensive spells, so it really wasn't that impressive. Then again, I'm not sure where they got their information from, so take it how you will.
edit Here's the original post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=428504&postcount=21):
There are two types of kidou: one which is essentially defensive, bakudou, and the other which is offensive, hadou.
In the manga these are clearly marked in the names of the spells.
Tessai used a defensive spell which, as far as we know does not carry the degree of difficultly that the offensive spell type does. When Gin comments on the difficulty of above 90 spells, he only mentions the offensive spells.
eLcHaKeTeRo
2006-01-01, 10:41
Hinamori has nothing on Aizen without his glasses while his hair combed backward. What a bishi!
whats a bishi?.....im sorry if this is off topic but its buggin me not knowing.....
scorpio516
2006-01-01, 10:55
and i was also wondering where he came from and what kinda connection he had to SS...also Jinta and the little girl
Logically we could assume he was a badass of somekind. We know what Urahara used to do, and we know what Yoruichi used to do, so we know what kind of friends Urahara has ;) Maybe he was his Lt.?
eLcHaKeTeRo
2006-01-01, 11:23
Logically we could assume he was a badass of somekind. We know what Urahara used to do, and we know what Yoruichi used to do, so we know what kind of friends Urahara has ;) Maybe he was his Lt.?
......i suppose so.......but if hes that strong and he was the LT.........nevermind......this is gettin off topic....
hitokirigirl
2006-01-01, 11:58
Hinamori has nothing on Aizen without his glasses while his hair combed backward. What a bishi!
whats a bishi?.....im sorry if this is off topic but its buggin me not knowing.....
A bishi means "bishounen".
In japanese, it's a cute/handsome guy
eLcHaKeTeRo
2006-01-01, 12:01
A bishi means "bishounen".
In japanese, it's a cute/handsome guy
......thanks alot......
Glitch87
2006-01-02, 02:31
A bishi means "bishounen".
In japanese, it's a cute/handsome guy
alsmo, it's mostly associated with men characters who are overly fangirly good looking that its unrealistic.
bishonen= androgyny
i don't get it..why didn't aizen just handled rukia and ran away instead of scheming the whole thing?
smart ass answers are not appreciated..thank you.
eLcHaKeTeRo
2006-01-02, 06:57
bishonen= androgyny
i don't get it..why didn't aizen just handled rukia and ran away instead of scheming the whole thing?
smart ass answers are not appreciated..thank you.
............maybe he plotted all this before he found the alt method to remove hougyoku from rukia.....
......wait a min.....thats exactly what he said and happened......:eyebrow:
Komataguri
2006-01-03, 11:45
or maybe he was concerned the alternate method wouldn't work, and thus reserved it incase his main plan failed
Jhereg42
2006-01-03, 15:07
Logically we could assume he was a badass of somekind. We know what Urahara used to do, and we know what Yoruichi used to do, so we know what kind of friends Urahara has ;) Maybe he was his Lt.?
Maybe they are all "creations", kind of like what Frankenstein did with his Vice Captain. Urahara was the head of the research division, after all.
Desti-Fate
2006-01-03, 16:21
bishonen= androgyny
i don't get it..why didn't aizen just handled rukia and ran away instead of scheming the whole thing?
smart ass answers are not appreciated..thank you.
It's the way the minds of evil genuises work. Simplicity is fine for peasants, but for real villians, the act of choosing a simpler solution over a more complicated one would actually cause their minds and bodies to melt, leaving our dark lord resembling a snowman in March. A twisted, bitter snowman. Of darkness.
For example, if you were to present Aizen with a gun, 3000 toothpicks, a bowl of catsup and the protagonist; Aizen would use the toothpicks to etch out a small series of interconnected tunnel chambers, before using the catsup to lure ants into the chambers, using the friction from rubbing toothpicks together to ignite the catsup covered ants, causing them to run through the tunnel in a specific pattern as dictated by Native American weather rituals to summon a divine ray of light to blind the protaganist while a seperate division of fiery catsup ants run into the protaganists nostrils and devour him from within. The gun would then be used to blow a hole in the toothpick supports, thus causing the tunnel to collapse- dooming the protagonist to a suffocating, anty fate.
I call it the Nuclear Shark-tank law.
Komataguri
2006-01-03, 16:27
It's the way the minds of evil genuises work. Simplicity is fine for peasants, but for real villians, the act of choosing a simpler solution over a more complicated one would actually cause their minds and bodies to melt, leaving our dark lord resembling a snowman in March. A twisted, bitter snowman. Of darkness.
For example, if you were to present Aizen with a gun, 3000 toothpicks, a bowl of catsup and the protagonist; Aizen would use the toothpicks to etch out a small series of interconnected tunnel chambers, before using the catsup to lure ants into the chambers, using the friction from rubbing toothpicks together to ignite the catsup covered ants, causing them to run through the tunnel in a specific pattern as dictated by Native American weather rituals to summon a divine ray of light to blind the protaganist while a seperate division of fiery catsup ants run into the protaganists nostrils and devour him from within. The gun would then be used to blow a hole in the toothpick supports, thus causing the tunnel to collapse- dooming the protagonist to a suffocating, anty fate.
I call it the Nuclear Shark-tank law.
How do you come up with that crap. o_O
Besides, our villans are not *that* complex..
bishonen= androgyny
i don't get it..why didn't aizen just handled rukia and ran away instead of scheming the whole thing?
smart ass answers are not appreciated..thank you.
Maybe Aizen isnt as smart as we might think, sure he got the glasses but what else is there?
I for one would done things differently if I was Aizen, so would you, but hey, no worries, just comfort yourself with the thought that we are smarter then that dead animated guy.
Souzouryoku
2006-01-03, 17:43
bishonen= androgyny
i don't get it..why didn't aizen just handled rukia and ran away instead of scheming the whole thing?
smart ass answers are not appreciated..thank you.
If you mean why did he have to go through the entire thing of getting Rukia to go to the mortal world, murdering the Center 46, etc. etc. Well...
I suppose that Rukia being executed was the only way to extract the Hyougyouku (or so he knew at the time). Aizen could not just get Rukia issued for execution. It would take some planning at least, and murdering the entire Center 46 was definitely a necesity. How else could he give the orders for her execution? And if that didn't work, he said that he had to look through Urahara's research to find out how to extract the Hyougyouku from Rukia. SO, yes, I'm assuming it took quite a bit of planning. He couldn't just walk up to her, stick his hand through her, and take the device without attracting attention.
NoSanninWa
2006-01-04, 06:02
Smart equals technical skills?
Urahara is a technical genius capable of creating an amazing magical invention.
Obviously Aizen doesn't have the same technical skills, but does that mean he isn't also quite intelligent? They simply have different skills. It doesn't prove Aizen isn't smart.
I dont know, you cant really say just because Aizen couldnt make what Urahara makes, that means Aizen is stupid. You might wonder how long it took Urahara to come up with his result, or maybe he just stumble up on the solution. In any case research is Urahara's field, Aizen might just be a newbie in that field.
technical skill is a kind of smart isn't it?
aizen may well wasn't talented enough to create the hougyoku.. but he sure is really smart to deceive the whole of soul society like that.
I'm going to be the rain on everyone's parade. Aizen can't be stupid, because he's a figment of the writer's imagination.
I do find it amusing how many people rushed to defend Aizen from The Small One's criticism, though (including NoSanninWa!) - I suppose that, despite being the villain, Aizen has garnered quite a following.
In a more general light, how does one define intelligence? There are many facets of how one can be intelligent. I don't think anyone can conclude who is "more intelligent" under these circumstances without being biased toward a character.
I do find it amusing how many people rushed to defend Aizen from The Small One's criticism, though (including NoSanninWa!) - I suppose that, despite being the villain, Aizen has garnered quite a following.
And with many people, you mean all 3 of us.
Its because he's the villain, that gets him my vote.
Baphomet
2006-01-05, 08:35
Regarding intelligence,
Aizen's equivalent to a cunning businessman while Urahara is comparable to a successful scientist.
Both just as smart in their own way imo.
I'm going to be the rain on everyone's parade. Aizen can't be stupid, because he's a figment of the writer's imagination.
I do find it amusing how many people rushed to defend Aizen from The Small One's criticism, though (including NoSanninWa!) - I suppose that, despite being the villain, Aizen has garnered quite a following.
In a more general light, how does one define intelligence? There are many facets of how one can be intelligent. I don't think anyone can conclude who is "more intelligent" under these circumstances without being biased toward a character.
Hmm, I do. Because if Aizen is able to orchestrate a coup that fools the entire populace of Soul Society, I think he's pretty smart.
hehe..this is just a speculation BUT
ever thought that aizen might me more mad than kurotsuchi mayuri?
i was just thinking.. he won't tell the truth and he'll go great lengths to get the ultimate power.. would ichimaru and tousen be one day..his guinea pigs?
serves them right don't you think?
hehe..this is just a speculation BUT
ever thought that aizen might me more mad than kurotsuchi mayuri?
i was just thinking.. he won't tell the truth and he'll go great lengths to get the ultimate power.. would ichimaru and tousen be one day..his guinea pigs?
serves them right don't you think?
True, but i'd rather be Aizen's experiment than Mayuri's experiment.
If you're Aizen's experiment - you'll get lied to and you might not get kicked out or something.
If you're Mayuri's experiment - You'll either become a monster of unspeakable horrors with some appendage where your mouth used to be, or you'd be dead when he blows you up for fun (this is actually the BEST thing that can happen to you if you're under him).
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-01-06, 20:50
LOL yeah i agree on that...
Dionysus
2006-01-07, 23:22
havin' not read the manga, i am curious to see how the storyline twist us around some more.
striderm
2006-01-08, 06:09
If Bleach were Death Note, Urahara would be L and Aizen would be Light.
[off topic]
Will Bleach continue after SS arc? Anyone knows or have any clue?
^ yup
bleach fillers start the week after the one hour 63-64 episode..
quick question..komamura sajin..fox guy, is that what his shikai does? a bigger version of him attacks?
quick question..komamura sajin..fox guy, is that what his shikai does? a bigger version of him attacks?
Actually, that seems to be his Bankai. If you recall when he fought Kenpachi, he called out Bankai, then that huge armored guy appeared behind him.
However...the weird thing is that when he attacked Aizen, he had the big guy with him. Then during the fight, right before Aizen pulled a "ZOMGWTF?!" on Komamura with his hypnosis, Komamura yelled out Bankai...maybe he recalled the big guy during that brief "intermission"? I don't know...it's weird...
Komamura's Shikai is his bigger arm attack, his Bankai summon/create the big armoured guy. The one he used to attack Aizen at first was his Shikai.
I wouldnt exactly say that..remember the fight he had with kenpachi pre-bankai? He charged up and released it and the floor was broken and rocks were flying everywhere. I wouldnt be surprised if its earth elemental related but from what ive seen, it can "mirror" his movements.
I wouldnt exactly say that..remember the fight he had with kenpachi pre-bankai? He charged up and released it and the floor was broken and rocks were flying everywhere. I wouldnt be surprised if its earth elemental related but from what ive seen, it can "mirror" his movements.
Well, rocks flying could have been caused by his big arm shikai right?
Im pretty convince that Komamura's shikai is a big version of his sword arm striking wherever he likes it to strike. And his bankai is the giant who mimics his movements.
Well, rocks flying could have been caused by his big arm shikai right?
Dont think so because you dont see any arm when he does his tengen.
DrunkenRyder
2006-01-09, 19:48
Havent any of you guys stop to think...HMMMMM animation studios arent always perfect. They definitly messed up there, his shikai isnt what you all have seem to dub "Big arm". It's either the power up blast thing that he used against kenpachi, or he hasent showed it yet..:twitch:
Friendless
2006-01-09, 20:26
For example, if you were to present Aizen with a gun, 3000 toothpicks, a bowl of catsup and the protagonist; Aizen would use the toothpicks to etch out a small series of interconnected tunnel chambers, before using the catsup to lure ants into the chambers, using the friction from rubbing toothpicks together to ignite the catsup covered ants, causing them to run through the tunnel in a specific pattern as dictated by Native American weather rituals to summon a divine ray of light to blind the protaganist while a seperate division of fiery catsup ants run into the protaganists nostrils and devour him from within. The gun would then be used to blow a hole in the toothpick supports, thus causing the tunnel to collapse- dooming the protagonist to a suffocating, anty fate.
I call it the Nuclear Shark-tank law.
Spoken like a true evil genius *two claps* well done.
ChickMagnet
2006-01-10, 11:39
Episode 63 raw is up!
Ichimaru
2006-01-17, 09:24
Dont u guys think bankai is overrated? When the yellow light came down to save aizen n co, the captians commander said theres no point in persueing them due to the light being inpenetrable, so does that mean havin the strongest fire sword cant penetrate it, ice sword cant penetrate it....then whats the point of havin bankai when ur enemy has sumthing stronger.
hitokirigirl
2006-01-17, 15:00
Dont u guys think bankai is overrated? When the yellow light came down to save aizen n co, the captians commander said theres no point in persueing them due to the light being inpenetrable, so does that mean havin the strongest fire sword cant penetrate it, ice sword cant penetrate it....then whats the point of havin bankai when ur enemy has sumthing stronger.
Hmm, could be interesting to create a thread about that; comparing differents bankai, and see how strong it could be against Hollows, especially
Aizen and his buddies Menos grande
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