View Full Version : Chapter 209 [Manga] Discussion
hi no ken Jebus
2005-12-21, 13:00
First the results of the popularity poll that were mentioned last chapter.
http://img277.imageshack.us/img277/3632/b209poppoll6um.th.jpg (http://img277.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b209poppoll6um.jpg)
1. Ichigo 8370
2. Hitsugaya 8321
3. Rukia 6122
4. Renji 4517
5.Ichimaru 4039
6.Byakuya 3752
7.Yoruichi 3744
8.Urahara 3676
9.Kenpachi 3001
10.Inoue 2901
11：ｲﾂﾞﾙ Izuru 2873 12：雛森 Hinamori 2735 13：檜佐木 Hisagi 2317 14：浮竹 Ukitake 2298 15：雨竜 Uryuu 1742
16：砕蜂 Soi Fong 1628 17：松本 Matsumoto 1377 .18：藍染 Aizen 1266 19：やちる Yachiru 1224 20：ｳﾙｷｵﾗ Ulquiorra 737
21：七緒 Nanao 609 22：ｺﾝ Kon 601 23：雨 Ururu 566 24：花太郎 Hanatarou 545 25：東仙 Tousen 519
26：一角 Ikkaku 456 27：ﾏﾕﾘ Mayuri 448 28：京楽 Kyouraku 445 29：一心 Isshin 440 30：茶渡 Sado 370
And for the chapter "Lift the limit"
Hitsugaya and Shawlong are fighting. Hitsugaya asks Shawlong about the strength of those 11 and up. Shawlong tells him that they were given that number in the order of their creation from the hyogyoku. The ones 11 and below were chosen for their killing power. No. 1-10 are special and they are called the Espadas(swords). They dominate the ones below 11 and their power is very different than theirs and the 6th espada Grimmjow Jagaajack(sp?) is one of these people. Scene switch to Grimmjow toying around with Ichigo taunting him to go bankai and he goes bankai.
Scene switches back to Hitsugaya and Matsumoto. Matsumoto had in her hand a communicator she had requested that the limit restriction of their shinigami powers be lifted. She gets the ok and then tells Hitsugaya and Renji. Then all 3 of them grab their chest an a flower tatto emblem thing and cancel the limit restricter. And chapter ends.
Also this is a double issue so no chapter for next week.
Looks like an interesting chapter although nothing happends in it, well it's always good with some story:D
RX79GMCustom
2005-12-21, 13:26
ikakku beat his opponent with the restricton on. so this means renj, hitsu and matsu will own:bow:
Thanks for the summary of the chapter. I find it hard to believe that they still had their powers limited. Why would SS do that? It doesn't make any sense. They obviously know how strong these arrancar are, yet they limit there power...
I forgot how much Renji said they were limited though. I think it was 1/5?
Chapter seems interesting.
Lackadaisical
2005-12-21, 14:41
Thanks for the summary of the chapter. I find it hard to believe that they still had their powers limited. Why would SS do that? It doesn't make any sense. They obviously know how strong these arrancar are, yet they limit there power...
I forgot how much Renji said they were limited though. I think it was 1/5?
There seems to be two reasons that could be possible. Obviously, shinigami can cause problems in any area they are in if their spirit power is too high. If they walk around unrestricted the damage they cause might be greater than the good they cause by defeating hollows.
First, if Soul Society has to prepare some kind of special field to protect the surrounding area from the effects of a completely unhindered VC or Captain shinigami, the field might not be something that can be in effect continuously. As such, the shinigami would have to wait until they were in need of the restriction being lifted to ask for the field to be placed. Which would be the reason why it took so long to be allowed to fight unrestricted. In bureaucratic fashion, they first had to in enough danger to need to be unrestricted and then had to wait to become unrestricted.
Secondly, if there is no way to protect an area from a VC or Captain's spirit power except through restriction, it would mean the restriction would only be removed when it was certain that they had no other way to protect the human world but to fight unrestricted, which damages the human world. Essentially, in this sense, given that their role is to protect the human world, they would only do something that damages the human world, fighting unrestricted, when the damage caused by their action was less than the damage caused by not acting unrestricted.
Was it mentioned if all shinigami are under the restriction or is it just the shinigami known to be powerful enough to effect the surrounding area through their presence?
Was it mentioned if all shinigami are under the restriction or is it just the shinigami known to be powerful enough to effect the surrounding area through their presence?
I didn't pick up the manga until about halfway through the SS arc, but I remember in the anime when Renji and Byakuya come to arrest Rukia, it's mentioned that VC-level and above are restricted. May have been explained differently in manga though.
I didn't pick up the manga until about halfway through the SS arc, but I remember in the anime when Renji and Byakuya come to arrest Rukia, it's mentioned that VC-level and above are restricted. May have been explained differently in manga though.
They can only use 20% of their power on earth. Would cause too much mayhem if they went all out..
eMpTy265
2005-12-21, 15:18
ikakku beat his opponent with the restricton on. so this means renj, hitsu and matsu will own:bow:
Was Ikakku seen with something like a power limiter though?
Cuz if Ikakku never showed his powers, it is possible that SS didn't give a limiter to Ikkaku.
(Since he didn't accept VC or above, he might not be required to wear a limiter)
I wonder if Ichigo's abilities were limited? Afterall he is only a replacement Shinigami...
***
(Somehow I'm starting to get DB vibes from this fight... it's almost like how you have the heroes fight with 20-tons worth of clothing, then tossing it away for the real fight...)
(At least Ichigo doesn't wait for himself to 'die' before going bankai...)
Souzouryoku
2005-12-21, 15:31
Hmmm..sounds like an interesting chapter..
Well, atleast Hitsu isn't down for the count :D I was almost sure he was. Now that the power limit has been lifted, I'm sure the battles will turn around, and good guys will start winning again. Though, I think it would have been smarter of Matsumoto to also have asked for reinforcements...
I've been wondering about why the Arrancar were numbered the way they were...it makes sense. Looks like Grimjaw is uber powerful :| I am a little worried about how powerful the ones ahead of him are though. Seems like trouble for the future...
Ichigo going bankai? Wow...saw that coming from a mile away. Looks like we are getting closer to the fight I've been waiting for :D Ichigo vs. Grimjaw!! :D
At this point, i find Ikkaku's strength totally unrealistic... it seems like a weird plot hole now, no matter what. Kinda unexplainable now, i think. That would mean that Ichigo was initially very powerful, and so was Tetsumon (sp? the 7th division VC). Kinda weird...
Also I hope these guys get pushed back a bit.... too bad Ichigo doesn't get any extra release. Maybe Isshin/Vaizards will help Ichigo survive a bit. Also, with the introduction of this whole class of Arrankar stronger than them shows that Ichigo will need new training. Hope Isshin does the training. Havent seen him in a while.
Speaking of not seeing people in a while : ISHIDA! Where the hell is he? Hope he's done his training... but dunno how he'll react to this situation.
Yaktura ::.
2005-12-21, 17:07
So basicly they just asked for permission to go SSJ2 :uhoh: :D
CorpMazral3
2005-12-21, 17:07
Also I hope these guys get pushed back a bit.... too bad Ichigo doesn't get any extra release. Maybe Isshin/Vaizards will help Ichigo survive a bit. Also, with the introduction of this whole class of Arrankar stronger than them shows that Ichigo will need new training. Hope Isshin does the training. Havent seen him in a while.
Speaking of not seeing people in a while : ISHIDA! Where the hell is he? Hope he's done his training... but dunno how he'll react to this situation
If isshin training is anything is anything like training with Urahara then I can't wait :D
Ishida is probably busy avoiding all of the shinigami..who have all of a sudden popped out of nowhere...he's most likely trainig though. Can't wait to see his face when he runs into ichigo :p it is bound to happen sometime.
At this point, i find Ikkaku's strength totally unrealistic... it seems like a weird plot hole now, no matter what. Kinda unexplainable now, i think. That would mean that Ichigo was initially very powerful, and so was Tetsumon (sp? the 7th division VC). Kinda weird....
Not really, sure he is Captain Level but he doesnt have the
Status Of Captain or Vice Captain thats why he doesnt have a limiter. And the fact that his bankai gets stronger every attack made his victory.
Ok, first post in a while...
Seemed like some people are upset with this "power up". I wouldn't think of this as a "power up" since it is a form of restriction (for a purpose too). Ironically, before this chapter, people were upset with how weak the good guys are...
Back on topic, having only 3 petals left, I think Hitsugaya may still need some help unless they go for a "most powerful attack" vs "most powerful attack" to end the fight. Or would he give us a shocker?
Souzouryoku
2005-12-21, 17:25
Not really, sure he is Captain Level but he doesnt have the
Status Of Captain or Vice Captain thats why he doesnt have a limiter. And the fact that his bankai gets stronger every attack made his victory.
Did it ever state that only Captain and Vice Captain level shinigami had a restriction on their power?
And yes, Ikkaku's strength is very "unrealistic". If he could beat his opponent (even if only by a hair)..shouldn't Hitsugaya and Matsumoto be able to defeat this guy? However, we should take into account the strength of the Arrancar...Il forte (he's the one they are fighting right? I always get them confused..) could be more powerful than the one that Ikkaku faced. However, if he wasn't..well..then that is just pathetic. And..Ichigo beat Ikkaku...which would mean that he is waay stronger than someone who is "stronger" than a captain. Very unrealistic.
Did it ever state that only Captain and Vice Captain level shinigami had a restriction on their power?
And yes, Ikkaku's strength is very "unrealistic". If he could beat his opponent (even if only by a hair)..shouldn't Hitsugaya and Matsumoto be able to defeat him? However, we should take into account the strength of the Arrancar...Il forte (he's the one they are fighting right? I always get them confused..) could be more powerful than the one that Ikkaku faced. However, if he wasn't..well..then that is just pathetic. And..Ichigo beat Ikkaku...which means that he is waay stronger than someone who is "stronger" than a captain. Very unrealistic.
Yes got this from another site... not gonna say who but "We return to Hitsugaya, who watches Matsumoto waiting for somesort of permission to come from the transmitter she's holding. It's the permission to cancel the limitation that Shinigami have on their reiatsu to fight in the living world; apparently Hitsugaya's been waiting for the green light to go full power. Finally, at the end of the sequence, permission is granted and Matsumoto shouts out to Hitsugaya. (Well, that shows us why the Shinigami have been more or less losing this engagement. Additionally, since Ikkaku isn't a Captain or Vice-Captain, the limitation does not apply to him => massive victory with Ryuumon Hoozukimaru.)"
So basicly they just asked for permission to go SSJ2 :uhoh: :D
Come on people, don't go this way. The creator is trying to be creative and original and all you can do is try to find faults and compare.
Souzouryoku
2005-12-21, 17:44
(Well, that shows us why the Shinigami have been more or less losing this engagement. Additionally, since Ikkaku isn't a Captain or Vice-Captain, the limitation does not apply to him => massive victory with Ryuumon Hoozukimaru.)"
As long as Ikkaku isn't more powerful than Hitsugaya..I'm happy...
Come on people, don't go this way. The creator is trying to be creative and original and all you can do is try to find faults and compare.
Grrr..agreed..I really hate when people say stuff like "this power up is soo dbz"or something like that... I'm probably repeating myself..I've said this a billion times. Bleach is very creative, but of course there are going to be things like that. Bleach is a shonen anime..which means there is going to be powerups, good guys winning almost every battle..etc..Just live with it. :D
Nightengale
2005-12-21, 17:50
No offence, but this whole power limiter thing is really getting out of hand. The scenario they're in are totally different from the Rukia capture one, and they had time to wait for permission from the upper-ups while fighting enemies they themselves claim to be stronger than captains? Way unrealistic if you ask me.
And Ikkaku not having a limiter itself is a plot hole. Even when Ikkaku kept his Bankai a secret, it's already a clear fact that he's at a VC level. Just because he's not in rank, he doesn't get a limiter when he's fully as capable as the others. Nonsense.
*Sighs*
With this level of development, I think it's clear that all of the Arrankar will lose except probably Grimjoww. Then again, he's fighting the "main character"
Kubo, is it so hard to let the Shinigamis actually lose, and needing their butt saved by....someone, Ryuken, Vizards, etc. I don't particularly enjoy seeing the repetition of the shounen formula no. XX.
"Good Guys Almost Always Overcome the Odds."
What are you talking about Nightengale? It seems like every Shinigami is on a losing streak. It should be more like, when is Kubo going to let them win!
It's pretty simple to explain Ikkaku. The only ones who know about his Bankai are Renji, Yumichika & possibly Matsumoto. He only used it when everyone was occupied in a fight. I doubt anyone else even knows, besides Keigo.
Souzouryoku
2005-12-21, 18:04
I think what Nightengale means is that it looks like the shinigami are about to make a huge comeback..especially since the power restriction has just been lifted. They now have their full power back. But, whether they will be any match for the Arrancar is unknown.
What's the battle score now anyway?
Arrancar: ?
Shinigami: 2?
Can't really remember -.-
Rukia won a battle..so did Ikkaku. Actually, I don't remember the Arrancar winning any battles -.- yet, atleast
Gah *goes back and rereads last few chapters*
SuperKnuckles
2005-12-21, 19:21
Wow. Now when I thought the Shinigami were FINALLY getting their hands full with something, a yet another deus ex comes in the way of the power limiter.
Bleach is getting more hilarious by the chapter. I'm not sure whether that's in a good way or a bad way.
jubileerain
2005-12-21, 19:57
So their power have been restricted this whole time?
Yay!! I hope Toshi-chan kicks some butt!
I think Grimmjaw is going to pulverize Ichigo. I wonder if Ichigo will get any stronger? No doubt we'll see Hollow Ichigo again.
Wow Toshi-chan's really popular now :) I'm glad Ichigo is still # 1 !!!
Oh! I COMPLETELY forgot about shinagami having their powers limited in the real world. I'm sure we all did. MAybe this can at least explain hitsugay's situation. But that guy is the strongest of the arrankars there next to grimjow though. Now i'm really curious as to what numbers uliqoula and yami were.
As for the poll, just why the hell is hitsugaya so popular? And why is my chado so low. Even beat by that loser mayuri? Kira and Hisagi must be in some mad dojinshi to be so popular after getting beat up and that's it.
Kenji_Chaos
2005-12-21, 21:54
wow interesting...
cant wait to see more..
thanks for the summary ken >_<
power limiter? rememberat the start of the SS arc, when Renji and BK came to earth to get Rukia? their powers were restrained during that time, too
Nightengale
2005-12-21, 22:48
power limiter? rememberat the start of the SS arc, when Renji and BK came to earth to get Rukia? their powers were restrained during that time, too
The situation are different, though. Then, they were dealing one Shinigami who's lost her powers and one rookie Shinigami with barely any experience compared to a Captain and a VC. One Quincy decided to mess in, but what's a Quincy to them?
Now, they're dealing with a minimum of 10 Vastrodes in their own assumption and they themselves claim them to be stronger than Captains. And if they really care so much as to make sure their reaitsu didn't affect the living world, they would had given Ikkaku one too.
Oh, and they sure had a lot of leisure time to spare, waiting until the 3rd petal to release the limiters when fighting opponents who are unquestionably strong.
Aceboogy
2005-12-21, 23:19
Is it possible that we've never seen an arrankar which was made from a Vastrode?? I mean just humor me for a second, why would the menos let Aizen do experiments on their strongest ranks? Hitsugaya said that they're 3 levels of menos: Gilian, ajucas and vastrode. I haven't read every shonen manga out but i do know that they NEVER jump from introducing the weakest (Gilian) straight to the introduction of the strongest (Vastrode).
I mean it's just me, but I don't want to jump to the conclusion that we're seeing fights against captin class menos, so early in a new arc.
The situation are different, though. Then, they were dealing one Shinigami who's lost her powers and one rookie Shinigami with barely any experience compared to a Captain and a VC. One Quincy decided to mess in, but what's a Quincy to them?
Now, they're dealing with a minimum of 10 Vastrodes in their own assumption and they themselves claim them to be stronger than Captains. And if they really care so much as to make sure their reaitsu didn't affect the living world, they would had given Ikkaku one too.
Oh, and they sure had a lot of leisure time to spare, waiting until the 3rd petal to release the limiters when fighting opponents who are unquestionably strong. I don't think the ones at rank 11 and below are as strong as captains (even the top 10 may not be). Because if that were the case, they should have attacked the Shinigami world by now, right?
Also, we haven't observed how the limit was removed before, so I don't understand why it seems absurd to some people, if this wasn't that case before (when Renji and Byakuya came to capture Rukia).
Also, if there was a power limiter, it would be the same for everyone, including Ikkaku. Although I have mostly followed the last few chapters from scripts (sometimes raws), so I might have missed something. But I believe that power is not related to going Bankai, etc. Unless Ikkaku already obtained permission without us noticing, it might be safe to assume that his limited power was above the one with whom he was fighting. This is also the case for the one Rukia had fought.
One last thing on the power unlimiting: it is logical to assume that there might be reasons for Hitsaguya waiting for the last minute to obtain the permission. Can this be taken as a sign that the Shinigamis were actually assuming those guys to be weaker than captains? I believe this is the case. And let's try to think of the answer to the following questions: how can you know someone is strong without actually fighting? And, how can you find the free time to contact while you are actually fighting and your partner is down? In that case, the only thing you can do is to wait for your partner, right?
M4rauder
2005-12-21, 23:40
Hitsuguya probably wanted to seem like he was already beaten, so that he could get the information about the Arrankars. That's probably why they waited until the last minute to release the limiters. (as for Ikkaku, I agree--he's not VC, so probably did not get limited).
Another thought, maybe Ichigo is limited as well. Did they ever explain what the badge was that Ukitaki gave him? It could be a limiter, or a tracking device so SS can keep tabs on him...
It does seem logical that the badge thingy is a power limiter as well since it is in the shape of a squad badge. Another theory on Hitsuguya's tatics could be that he wanted the Arrancars to waste as much of their energy as possible. The "last minute power unlimiting thing" really sounds like typical buracratic red tape, so it really doesn't seem that unusual, since there hasn't been any correspondence between the bunch of shinigami's in the real world and SS.
Hm, limiting devices? Ooh, that explains why Hitsu was losing. I don't think they should lose one of their own since they're going to go full blast or something like that.. It seemed weird to me at the start how Ikkaku was winning against his guy and that others were like losing. This makes sense. Kinda.
Ah, at last Shuuhei isn't at the bottom for the poll thing. ^^
The situation are different, though. Then, they were dealing one Shinigami who's lost her powers and one rookie Shinigami with barely any experience compared to a Captain and a VC. One Quincy decided to mess in, but what's a Quincy to them?
Now, they're dealing with a minimum of 10 Vastrodes in their own assumption and they themselves claim them to be stronger than Captains. And if they really care so much as to make sure their reaitsu didn't affect the living world, they would had given Ikkaku one too.
Oh, and they sure had a lot of leisure time to spare, waiting until the 3rd petal to release the limiters when fighting opponents who are unquestionably strong.
They are not Vastrodes. Vastrodes are pure Hollows. Arankals are DIFFERENT. they are hybrid, hollows who gained shinigami powers.
i don't mind not having the good guys die, AS LONG as they way they survive is logical. plus, having mentioned the limiter, i dont think bleach will receive any hate mails soon since the story is still going strong, the plot is too and the characters just keep on evolving and unfolding.
i think ikkaku is the strongest one out of all the shinigamis went to human world. kuz at one point he was asked to be a captain but he chose not to. and hitsu is possibly the weakest captain in the 13 squads.
i think ikkaku is the strongest one out of all the shinigamis went to human world. kuz at one point he was asked to be a captain but he chose not to. and hitsu is possibly the weakest captain in the 13 squads.
Well, we haven know the meaning of the petals behind him, so can't really comment on it, right?
But I'm more concern about Jinta and Ururu. R they able to hold up against Aranakals(i noe sp error)? Or will Ururu goes berserk like wat she did when training with Ichigo? And wat does Renji hope to noe by visiting Urahara?
Dark Lord Zenigame
2005-12-22, 04:41
Nice to know that I called it right about the numbers. ^_^;;
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=412726#post412726
I love it when I'm right :D
damn... why u saying that Ikkaku didn't have restricion? it's nothing that u wear thou... Yumichaka had this cell phone like Rangiku and asked for increasing restricion fightin AREA for Ikkaku and other...
why Ikkaku win? he didn't get speed or agility boost, but he got something that could cut through Arrancle and that was enough and he was lucky that he didn't die :D it would be like if BK's bankai wouldn't be strong enough at some poit to hurt 1-10 arrnacle than all thouse pentals would make no sense and he would die easly :D (I'm not saying that this would happen)...
we can't expect Rangiku to have Bankai as Renji said that any of VC had it, expect of him :D ...
as I already said once Ikkaku was holding his Bankai as a secret so much that he could die fighting Ichigo back in SS and he didn't wanted to use it...
If Hitsu or any of good guys won't win after maximum restricion area then this means that they need to be saved and their bankais doesn't hold much of a brute force...
and as for Ichigo... he never had restricion and that's why Inoue and Chad got their powers and Rukia was mixed in this plote, and he didn't get one after SS arc, as Hirako (sp?) told him to not get to exited :D
and there's no such thing as telling that they were using 20% of their maximum by now as Yumichaka asked for rising limiter, and it isn't like they all would use 20% from the start, or anything...
Oh no,this is the sign that shows us that bleach is going to end up like DBZ.
Let's hope that bleach will stay away from the doom path of DBZ.
Damn... I forgot about that limiter. I thought it would be a whitewash. Go Kubo Go.
Nightengale
2005-12-22, 09:41
Not trying to sound offensive, Cloudy, but can we get away from the comparisons with DBZ? It seems every shounen gets compared to DBZ these days, except probably D.Gray Man.
@NaNash, Renji went there to confiscate Urahara's illegal stuff he's selling.
Seriously, he probably needs a place to stay and he also wants to meet the man that trained the boy who had like 1/1000000000000000000 of experience compared to Captains, and yet managed to achieve Bankai and make Byakuya's 1000 years talk seem REALLY tame.
I agree with those who say, that having limiters on the Shinigami is illogical... Ichigo is at the same level they are (or even greater) and completely goes unrestricted. The Arankals themselves have no restrictions, so restricting the others is just plain stupid.
actually.......I think it still makes sense.....
since Ichigo doesn't belong to SS
so he's not restricted to their rules.....
Ichimaru
2005-12-22, 13:48
actually.......I think it still makes sense.....
since Ichigo doesn't belong to SS
so he's not restricted to their rules.....
Didnt u listen to his pep talk with BK earlier on at the end of SS ARC, you either follow the rules or break the rules or make ur own rules.
That was Byakuya's philosophy, you can't apply that elsewhere.
The limiters were put into place so that shinigami could go into the real world and not have their spirit pressure be detected by humans all around them, which, at full power most humans would be crushed.
Ichigo is/was never apart of Soul Society/Gotei 13, so he hasn't been restricted at all.
maybe Kubo isn't tellin us something that Rukia asked for a STRONG and LARGE restricion area around Ichigo when he came to fight and we still don't know that, cause if Renji and Hitsu was holding back not to cause trouble, than what would make fully realesed Ichigo (even Hollow mode) and Grimjaw (he might have not only shikai as he is suuper strong)...
hinatahyuuga
2005-12-22, 19:16
Non Captains and Vice Captains don't have a limiter because they are assumed weaker then their superiors. I actually think it makes sense that Ikkaku isn't limited, because he simply wouldnt beat a captain (but he may be sort of on par with a vice..it's hard to tell) with their limitter off. Either way he only wanted to stay in his position to serve his captain not become one. He wanted to stay in the same division as Kenpachi. Limiters are used so the shinigami doesn't overdo things with their surpreme powers. They could cause real destruction and discord to the human world.
I'm so glad Toushiro is #2, next time he'll be #3..bu hahahaha. There's no cooler character then Toushiro ^_^
what the hell? I just told u that Ikkaku had his restriction area while fighting Arrankle as he was all know VC-level without showing off his secrets, so if Rangiku has a limitation than he has it for sure...
have u noticed how good Ikkaku is in hiding his reiatsu, he could teach Ichigo if they're friends :D
or maybe u think that restricted area in that fight wasn't for Ikkaku, but Arrnakle itself ??
Yumichika requested a stasis field for the shinigami to be increased. He never spoke of any restrictions. Ikkaku is not a VC or Captain, so he was not restricted. If he was, he would of had those flower symbol on him. He didn't have a shirt on for most of the fight, and unless I'm blind, I didn't see a flower :p
ok, the are gonna own after lifting the limit, rangiku blocked that fat guy with her hand, and then they blew up their reitsu... cant wait till 210!!
also i want to see yumichika's bankai.. it has to be insanely cheap. cheaper than his shikai
wait a minute.... how is it possible for them to use BANKAI while their power is limited? That doesn't make any sense
Ichimaru
2005-12-23, 02:22
wait a minute.... how is it possible for them to use BANKAI while their power is limited? That doesn't make any sense
Bankai is just a technique callin out the name of ur sword, it only comes out when u have mastered ur sword and fully trust each other. Bankai doesnt rely much on reiatsu, good example is Hitsuguya who has low lvl reiatsu but still can call out bankai while renji who has no experience with his bankai but tones of reiatsu. When those two lvls meet they are a deadly combo.
Renji said it best when he fought with ichigo in SS, about how his reiatsu power was limited in earth 1/10 i think compressed, while in SS there are no barriers on him to go all out.
Sirasoni
2005-12-23, 03:06
Bankai is just a technique callin out the name of ur sword, it only comes out when u have mastered ur sword and fully trust each other. Bankai doesnt rely much on reiatsu, good example is Hitsuguya who has low lvl reiatsu but still can call out bankai while renji who has no experience with his bankai but tones of reiatsu. When those two lvls meet they are a deadly combo.
Renji said it best when he fought with ichigo in SS, about how his reiatsu power was limited in earth 1/10 i think compressed, while in SS there are no barriers on him to go all out.
Where do you get that Hitsugaya has a low amount of reiatsu? Isn't Hyourinmaru created based on an overflow of reiatsu?
Yumichika requested a stasis field for the shinigami to be increased. He never spoke of any restrictions. Ikkaku is not a VC or Captain, so he was not restricted. If he was, he would of had those flower symbol on him. He didn't have a shirt on for most of the fight, and unless I'm blind, I didn't see a flower :p
Too true. There was definitely not one on Ikkaku.
As for the Arankal, they have got to have bankai. Right now they don't need it, as they are thoroughly owning everyone's asses. I think the one Ikkaku fought was of a higher number than ten, so he doesn't count, but the other there (Grimjaw) likely have it. It's just a matter of necessity, though it'd be scary to see how monstrous they get then!
no, i dont think they will have bankai for now.. Arancal undecimo already told hitsugaya that he would fight him with his strongest form so as to pay respect for his "captain" rank. Still, kubo can pull out a few more tricks, and i doubt that the arankals would just "hack&slash" their way out to kill.
D-Technolife
2005-12-23, 08:31
hey i thought grimjaw was the only one special out of them sent by aizen!!!... i think grimjaw can do bankai but doesn't need to yet!!!
Nightengale
2005-12-23, 09:23
Is it just me or are the people lately very hooked on seeing Bankais everywhere?
Not really, but we want to see the bad guys actually win, and some of the good guys actually die or needing their ass saved by a 2rd party, Vizards or somebody since I'm starting to doubt if Kubo will even kill off someone major.
And IMO seeing the good guys "overcoming the odds" a 100 times is worse than seeing them pwning them straight. At least Yoruichi/Urahara pwning Yamii was somewhat entertaining.
D-Technolife
2005-12-23, 09:26
well, what i want to see is some ACTION!!!! WAR! or something exciting!! ehehe
finally..read the chapter! yay.. i don't understand why people are getting disappointed though..the plot is adequate for the good guys to win.
now, all i'm waiting for here, is for grimmjaw to unleash his strength.
some random thoughts though,
i want to see the arrankaru actually using their zanpuktous..can't remember if they actually did..and if i'm wrong, someone please tell me which chapter did any of the arrankaru use their sealed zanpuktoh?
looks interesting, could it be that the strongest arrankaru is the one that resembles human most?
D-Technolife
2005-12-23, 09:45
that's ryt!!! so many mysterys!!! and unanswered question!!! that's what really makes bleach a REALLY COOL anime!!!
Nightengale
2005-12-23, 09:56
i want to see the arrankaru actually using their zanpuktous..can't remember if they actually did..and if i'm wrong, someone please tell me which chapter did any of the arrankaru use their sealed zanpuktoh?
looks interesting, could it be that the strongest arrankaru is the one that resembles human most?
Xiao Long, Ill Forte and the guy Ikkaku defeated all used their zanpakutou. They all also released it already.
And your second question...NOT. One of the Espadas is clearly one ugly fatso, whom Illforte and Xiao Long looks more bishie. Ulqioulla is clearly Espadas, same to that tanned girl and one old looking thin guy.
hi no ken Jebus
2005-12-23, 10:10
Xiao Long, Ill Forte and the guy Ikkaku defeated all used their zanpakutou. They all also released it already.
And your second question...NOT. One of the Espadas is clearly one ugly fatso, whom Illforte and Xiao Long looks more bishie. Ulqioulla is clearly Espadas, same to that tanned girl and one old looking thin guy.
Oddly enough none of the silouhettes resembled anything like Yammy unless he's the one next to grimmjow and is covered up by the text bubble. So he might be a 11+ member which would explain why Yoruichi was flipping him like a pancake:heh:.
Anyway Shawlong and co. sealed their fate when they revealed the Espadas were the strongest of the bunch and possibly the Vastrode class menos Hitsugaya was describing. I doubt they have anything like an arankaru version of bankai or anymore tricks so I expect next chapter crappygami renji will once again evade death along with histugaya. Besides they have outlived their usefulness and Shawlong was such a good badguy. Grimmjow on the otherhand better live up to his big talk.
no i mean, sword fighting, not power ups.. and the second question, i was just basing that coz grimmjaw only has a small piece of his mask left.. would it make sense if the strongest espada has his mask completely broken?
i don't know, its just for the sake of discussion
hi no ken Jebus
2005-12-23, 10:27
no i mean, sword fighting, not power ups.. and the second question, i was just basing that coz grimmjaw only has a small piece of his mask left.. would it make sense if the strongest espada has his mask completely broken?
i don't know, its just for the sake of discussion
Before releasing their swords they all fought with their zanpakutoh. They start facing each other around ch 200 then it jumps around so there you go.
http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/7834/blaz5qo.th.jpg (http://img492.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blaz5qo.jpg)
oh damn not reading the sticky properly i accidently posted up the same thread, gosh darn it...how di report it????
cant wait till chapt 210!
hey have u guys noticed that the tatoos reflecting releasing their "limit" are filled in in black and white, meaning they have either achieved their full limit or not? take for example the renji one is in full white, meaning he's got loads more to release....as being able to achieve bankai he's got more stored up ehem "limited" power.....if that makes any sense..and cus hitsugaya is still young he's still got loads more to go....and yamamotots has not even started really...meaning theyr refl;ectuve of rank aswell.....
just a theory...most likely wrong!!!
i knew kishimoto would pull out a new move that no1 would thik of...lol
grim jaw is too cool......... ichigo looks stupid in comparison...and ichigo is my fav charcter!!!
Where was it said, that Yumichika has a Bankai? We know he is at a VC level, but nobody ever said, that he (too) is able to go Bankai.
Don't make it worse, than it already is.
when renji asked ikkaku to be a captain, because he knows bankai, then ikkaku said that he doesnt want anyone to kno that he knows bankai, he only taught yumichika, renji because they are friends
SuperKnuckles
2005-12-23, 13:37
Not really, but we want to see the bad guys actually win, and some of the good guys actually die or needing their ass saved by a 2rd party, Vizards or somebody since I'm starting to doubt if Kubo will even kill off someone major.
And IMO seeing the good guys "overcoming the odds" a 100 times is worse than seeing them pwning them straight. At least Yoruichi/Urahara pwning Yamii was somewhat entertaining.
Agreed.
What gets me was how the Shinigami barely had that much strength as seen in the Soul Society chapters. Rangiku, Ikkaku and Hitsugaya actually seemed weaker in the SS chapters when their powers weren't supposed to be restricted at all.
Just strange logic at work here.
CorpMazral3
2005-12-23, 13:44
Not really, but we want to see the bad guys actually win, and some of the good guys actually die or needing their ass saved by a 2rd party, Vizards or somebody..
hmmm...we arent sure if the Vizards good or not yet right? Just wonderin...dont remember their intentions being revealed yet..
CupRamen
2005-12-23, 15:24
After seeing Ichigo in this chapter... I personally think he's gonna get beat to a pulp..
I'm hoping just before Ichigo's about to be finished off, an arrow fires that actually hurts his opponent, unlike Ichigo, who's not even been able to make a scratch on him with ban kai, and then the chapter ends with Ichigo's mouth wide open when Ishida comes out of the shadow with this badass looking bow and a cool looking new outfit.
i'm wondering why no one's mentioned it...
hisagi shuuhei has a tattoo of 69... interesting? lol.
Nightengale
2005-12-23, 16:14
i'm wondering why no one's mentioned it...
hisagi shuuhei has a tattoo of 69... interesting? lol.
Renji and the Renji-fanboy has tattoos too. What so weird about that?
Plus only the top 10 gets a tattoo by Aizen. Xiao Long and Illforte doesn't have that priveledge.
i'm wondering why no one's mentioned it...
hisagi shuuhei has a tattoo of 69... interesting? lol.
Hisagi has that tattoo because thats where he came from.
when renji asked ikkaku to be a captain, because he knows bankai, then ikkaku said that he doesnt want anyone to kno that he knows bankai, he only taught yumichika, renji because they are friends
He didnt teach both of them bankai. He showed to them he has bankai.
he only told....not taught :p
He probably showed it too.
how can he show them his ban kai if no one else knows about it?
I'm sure there are alot of quiet places in SS. It is a big place.
no i mean, sword fighting, not power ups.. and the second question, i was just basing that coz grimmjaw only has a small piece of his mask left.. would it make sense if the strongest espada has his mask completely broken?
i don't know, its just for the sake of discussion
Well the one Ikkaku fought only had that little piece on his nose, even smaller than grimjaw's. And he is obviously not stronger than grimjaw.
I do wonder why no one has showed up yet. Anyone with any spiritual power has to have realized a while ago that these fights are goin on. Are they watching? That'd be typical, especially of Urahara, but I do think that Isshin is gonna show up in front of Ichigo. I can't wait to hear the conversations that will bring up!
Well the one Ikkaku fought only had that little piece on his nose, even smaller than grimjaw's. And he is obviously not stronger than grimjaw.
I do wonder why no one has showed up yet. Anyone with any spiritual power has to have realized a while ago that these fights are goin on. Are they watching? That'd be typical, especially of Urahara, but I do think that Isshin is gonna show up in front of Ichigo. I can't wait to hear the conversations that will bring up!
yea, thats wut i think too, my guess is that ichigo is gonna get a major beat down, then his dad comes and helps him. and his dad releases bankai
Did it ever state that only Captain and Vice Captain level shinigami had a restriction on their power?
And yes, Ikkaku's strength is very "unrealistic". If he could beat his opponent (even if only by a hair)..shouldn't Hitsugaya and Matsumoto be able to defeat this guy? However, we should take into account the strength of the Arrancar...Il forte (he's the one they are fighting right? I always get them confused..) could be more powerful than the one that Ikkaku faced. However, if he wasn't..well..then that is just pathetic. And..Ichigo beat Ikkaku...which would mean that he is waay stronger than someone who is "stronger" than a captain. Very unrealistic.
Hitsugaya is overrated. BK has already say that even if someone achieve a bankai, it takes time to train it. As shown BK vs Ichigo, Ichigo actually doesn't know how to use his bankai at all. I think Hitsugaya is the same as Ichigo, except he has more time to train his Bankai, but not like BK, who has an idea of how to really use his bankai.
Since Ikkaku is asked to be a captain, it shows that the 11th squad Captain, VC and 3rd is actually quite close in strength(as in the 3rd and 5th seat can actually rise to a VC and Captain easily, not Kenpachi vs Ikkaku). This also shows that as long as you achieve a bankai, you are most likely to be a Captain. It would explain how Hitsugaya got his Captain status -> through having a Bankai most likely.
No offence, but this whole power limiter thing is really getting out of hand. The scenario they're in are totally different from the Rukia capture one, and they had time to wait for permission from the upper-ups while fighting enemies they themselves claim to be stronger than captains? Way unrealistic if you ask me.
And Ikkaku not having a limiter itself is a plot hole. Even when Ikkaku kept his Bankai a secret, it's already a clear fact that he's at a VC level. Just because he's not in rank, he doesn't get a limiter when he's fully as capable as the others. Nonsense.
You can't possibly has Hitsugaya to use his Hyoinmori(sp) like he did against Gin. Besides their original mission is to scout and gain information. They don't need that much power.
In SS, the VC and the 3rd seat powers differ greatly(in most squads except 11th). By power, I mean the 3rd seat cannot actually become a VC or Captain easily, unlike Ikkaku. My guess is that in every situation, they generalise. Captain and VC only. Even if Ikkaku is a Captain or VC level, he's still in the 3rd seat.
It is like attending a meeting. All Captains attend. Even if Ikkaku is of a Captain level, he is not allowed to attend the meeting. The ranks is used as a general guide to their power. Usually, most 3rd seats are not supposed to be that powerful to warrant a power limit. Ikkaku is a 3rd seat under Kenpachi, so he has no need a power limit.
I think the power limit is a stretch too. And they should not have introduce it IMHO. They should just make Hitsugaya beat Shaolong easily. From the explanation it would seem that the Arrancar are at VC or below level. And Espada should be at least captain level.
So a Captain level should be able to handle Arrancars. I don't think we will be seeing Ichigo beating all 10 Espadas. And even if Hitsugaya may not be the strongest captain, the level between most captains shouldn't be that great. So now that the power limit has been lifted Hitsugaya should owned #11.
I guess they introduce the power limit concept to explain the Espada/Arrancar concept...which I think they could have done a better job. First Rukia Shikai, then Ikkaku Bankai, now the Power Limit...back to back to back revelation is alittle too much. At this rate, my prediction is there will be an additional zanpactou release beyond Bankai! You heard it here first!
Desti-Fate
2005-12-24, 09:06
Power limit was introduced aaages ago. It's just a sneaky way for Kubo to do the shounen "power-up" cliche a few extra times.
I finnaly read the translated version...
so when they did the the limit off thing their flowers just taken color from black to white (or maybe it'll be something else in anime)... I just love Rangiku's flower :D
but it's ridiculus with that power up from Rangiku, she better don't show anything more than Bankai or it'll suck...
Ichigo will have a big problem and I doubt that anybody else than Vizored can help him (like Hikaro) as his dad is just a normal capitan class shinigami... so everybody else than Ichigo will win so they can come and get their ass kicked by GrimJaw while Ichigo will be catching his breath :D
I finnaly read the translated version...
so when they did the the limit off thing their flowers just taken color from black to white (or maybe it'll be something else in anime)... I just love Rangiku's flower :D
but it's ridiculus with that power up from Rangiku, she better don't show anything more than Bankai or it'll suck...
Ichigo will have a big problem and I doubt that anybody else than Vizored can help him (like Hikaro) as his dad is just a normal capitan class shinigami... so everybody else than Ichigo will win so they can come and get their ass kicked by GrimJaw while Ichigo will be catching his breath :D
Rangiku doesnt have bankai. Renji and ikkaku are only from the patch that has em :P. But her shikai ability must been pretty good to put a good ol beating on kira. Now, lately ichigo is annoying me. Getting bigheaded. In this arc, i hope he gets his his butt whooped so bad by grimmjow to the point where his hollow gets whooped and himself and he goes train and gets rid of his bighead and somebody comes to the rescue.
lana3007
2005-12-25, 04:56
Rangiku doesnt have bankai. Renji and ikkaku are only from the patch that has em :P.
I personally have always thought of Matsumoto as a potential character for getting Ban Kai later on in the series. She has the interesting dinamic with Ichimaru and it simply wouldn't be interesting to watch them clash, if she is so much weaker than him. But I very much doubt she has ban kai right now, although ... if she and Gin are the same age (or at least they were both kids at the same time) and Gin is a captain then it is very plausible that she could have a lot of power at this point.
On the subject of Ichigo ... I think it's pretty much assumed that he isn't going to win, and this will probably be the equivalent of the beating that he got from Byakuya in the beginning of the SS arc. Now who exactly is going to come rescue him and how, that remains to be seen. I vote for something very unexpected.
How about Rukia? You all seem to forget that Rukia is with Ichigo, even if she is almost dead. What will happen when she will lift her limits(if she has the right to do so, I don't know)? Will she stand up to counter Grimjaw like Matsumoto stops the stamp from the fat guy? Or maybe will someone arrive? I can't wait for the next chapter, but I'm sure it'll be very interesting...
Novarain
2005-12-25, 08:09
Now it's starting to make sense why Rukia and Ikkaku managed to win their fights but the others were having difficulty.
Remember when Ichigo first fought Renji in Soul Society? Renji said that Shinigami of Lieutanent rank are severely restricted in power before going into the real world. Rukia and Ikkaku are NOT lieutanant rank 0r above which means that their powers were NOT restricted when the entered the real world.
On the other hand, the rest were of lieutanant rank or higher which means that they had their powers restricted.
Not necessarily... they are both on VC level, so they should be on par in the first place. And since Kira's main ability was basically disabled, she was at an advantage.
Yea i cant argue with that but until she didnt relased her ash cat.. things werent going to good.
I personally have always thought of Matsumoto as a potential character for getting Ban Kai later on in the series. She has the interesting dinamic with Ichimaru and it simply wouldn't be interesting to watch them clash, if she is so much weaker than him. But I very much doubt she has ban kai right now, although ... if she and Gin are the same age (or at least they were both kids at the same time) and Gin is a captain then it is very plausible that she could have a lot of power at this point.
On the subject of Ichigo ... I think it's pretty much assumed that he isn't going to win, and this will probably be the equivalent of the beating that he got from Byakuya in the beginning of the SS arc. Now who exactly is going to come rescue him and how, that remains to be seen. I vote for something very unexpected.
I just realized she was faking that she was "dead" or beaten to a pulp and stayed like that till she got the signal if they can lift it or not. I gotta see her shikai ability first.. thats been nagging me.
How about Rukia? You all seem to forget that Rukia is with Ichigo, even if she is almost dead. What will happen when she will lift her limits(if she has the right to do so, I don't know)? Will she stand up to counter Grimjaw like Matsumoto stops the stamp from the fat guy? Or maybe will someone arrive? I can't wait for the next chapter, but I'm sure it'll be very interesting...
Well unless shes ukitates VC (probably is.. she didnt even bother saying her rank when she fought droy) and i dont see anybody randomly taking that spot. And her shikai is something not to mess with. Who knows. droy wasnt even something to take the limit off in the first place.
Rangiku doesnt have bankai. Renji and ikkaku are only from the patch that has em :P. But her shikai ability must been pretty good to put a good ol beating on kira. Now, lately ichigo is annoying me. Getting bigheaded. In this arc, i hope he gets his his butt whooped so bad by grimmjow to the point where his hollow gets whooped and himself and he goes train and gets rid of his bighead and somebody comes to the rescue.
not that she doesn't have bankai...but no one know whether she does or does not. When Ikkaku pulled out his bankai it seems to me that anyone could have bankai and that they could pull it out and use it when in danger...then they can go into the reason why "they want to hide it"...Rukia probably have bankai :P...well at least she most likely will get one.
not that she doesn't have bankai...but no one know whether she does or does not. When Ikkaku pulled out his bankai it seems to me that anyone could have bankai and that they could pull it out and use it when in danger...
Woah woah woah, are you forgetting ikkaku is in 11th division? any seat in 11th div is pretty much vc level compared to other divisions. I hope rangiku doesnt get bankai. Sure her shikai ability is something but they better do some explaining why she has bankai (if she has one).
Well, I wonder why people think that only a few people should have bankai. I know in the manga/anime, BK said that bankai is rare, but that is calculating the number of shinigami in SS and the number of shinigami who have bankai. Most VCs should be near bankai status or already have opened their bankai. If not, who's going to replace the lost Captains? Besides, experience is another factor. Perhaps Rangiku has enough experience with her bankai or battles with enough high-level creeps, therefore no referals. Either way if Kisuke can push the fat guy back with his shikai, I think Rangiku won't need to pull out her bankai(if she has one).
From what Yoruichi said about in the history of SS, only Kenpachi doesn't have bankai, it seems that there have been a fair number of captains before. I don't believe that most of the current captains in 13 squads is the first generation captains.
Woah woah woah, are you forgetting ikkaku is in 11th division? any seat in 11th div is pretty much vc level compared to other divisions.
Isn't that a bit of a stretch?
Anyways, i'm sure that many people have or will have bankai. And each new one will seem to be more powerful than the ones previously conceived. Its only natural i guess.
Rukia's Shikai seems to have more power than Hitsugaya's Shikai which supposed to be the strongest water/ice zanpactou. But i guess Rukia's opponent is infinitely weaker than Gin and Kira (who got hit but did not die).
so Renji last time just COULDN'T fight better, that makes more sense... but making Rangiku stronger than fatty is not right with me if she's just a normal VC...
so Ichigo's inner hollow can take over his body only when his in Bankai mode?
Isn't that a bit of a stretch?
Anyways, i'm sure that many people have or will have bankai. And each new one will seem to be more powerful than the ones previously conceived. Its only natural i guess.
Rukia's Shikai seems to have more power than Hitsugaya's Shikai which supposed to be the strongest water/ice zanpactou. But i guess Rukia's opponent is infinitely weaker than Gin and Kira (who got hit but did not die).
Not really, 11th division is very strong. Seated officers there are pretty much vc level (Excluding ikkaku). Yumachika (sp) is pretty good and renji was in 11th division seated 4th i think. So alot of power comes from there. Yes rukias shikai is pretty powerful too bad she got nailed by grimmjow :( but i hope ichigo loses haha :D .
so Renji last time just COULDN'T fight better, that makes more sense... but making Rangiku stronger than fatty is not right with me if she's just a normal VC...
so Ichigo's inner hollow can take over his body only when his in Bankai mode?
Yea i guess so. Since his bankai is pretty powerful he wants to take over and cause some mayhem.He needs to learn how to use kuroi getsuga .Renji i hope learned an ability or use his bankai better last time we saw it..
DrunkenRyder
2005-12-26, 16:24
Sorry if this has been brought up.
But what the hell happend to Ichimaru and Tousen? Maybe they are the 1st and Second Arrancar?
Sorry if this has been brought up.
But what the hell happend to Ichimaru and Tousen? Maybe they are the 1st and Second Arrancar?
There with aizen i guess. They are most likely vizards by now.. They cant be arrancar because they are shinigami
I don't think ishinn is anything but an ordinary captain class shinigami. The way i see it, he's probably at par with BK in terms of using bankai, but i don't think he's going to be the one rescuing ichigo since he already rescued KON...
having ishida rescue ichigo would be too early imo, since he's probably just getting his powers back, and im sure it takes time to train it.
i also doubt that it'll be yoruichi nor urahara since not so long ago, they had already rescued ichigo from Yami. repeating the rescue so early will not be good..
Maybe Yamamoto himself would appear @_@ nope, i would guess it'll be the vizards who'll rescue ichigo.. hirako would beat grim jaw so bad only to mention later that Grimjaw is the weakess top 10... =p
DrunkenRyder
2005-12-26, 19:18
(I hope your joking) Wait.. Grim jaw is not weak at all he is in a class by himself (Espada). Plus he pushed Ichigo off as if ichigo were don kanoji. And as far as I know Ichigo doesnt have a restriction on himself. But why does someone have to save Ichigo? Why can't he have an ass wooping of a life time, and learn from it? :P
Maybe Yamamoto himself would appear @_@ nope, i would guess it'll be the vizards who'll rescue ichigo.. hirako would beat grim jaw so bad only to mention later that Grimjaw is the weakess top 10... =p
Technically speaking, that shouldn't be right. The top 10 Arrancar are apparently numbered by order of their strength, if you apply a bit of interpretation to what Shawlong said. Grimmjaw is number 6, so he shouldn't be the weakest of the top 10.
I don't think ishinn is anything but an ordinary captain class shinigami. The way i see it, he's probably at par with BK in terms of using bankai, but i don't think he's going to be the one rescuing ichigo since he already rescued KON...
having ishida rescue ichigo would be too early imo, since he's probably just getting his powers back, and im sure it takes time to train it.
i also doubt that it'll be yoruichi nor urahara since not so long ago, they had already rescued ichigo from Yami. repeating the rescue so early will not be good..
Maybe Yamamoto himself would appear @_@ nope, i would guess it'll be the vizards who'll rescue ichigo.. hirako would beat grim jaw so bad only to mention later that Grimjaw is the weakess top 10... =p
ishinn is not just ordinary class, kuz before him and urahara left SS, they were two of the strongest ppl in SS, i think i read that sumwhere in the manga, but i could be wrong
ishinn is not just ordinary class, kuz before him and urahara left SS, they were two of the strongest ppl in SS, i think i read that sumwhere in the manga, but i could be wrong
He said ordinary Captain class...meaning that he's pretty much on par with all the other Captains...he wouldn't be too much stronger, but wouldn't be too much weaker either. Furthermore...there was really no mention of Isshin and Urahara being two of the strongest people in Soul Society. However, if you think about it, the Captains are basically the strongest that Soul Society has to offer, so obviously Isshin (who is at least on par with other Captains) and Urahara would be among the strongest of Soul Society when they left.
DrunkenRyder
2005-12-26, 22:19
It said Urahara and Yurichi where the former strongest Duo in Soul Society.
As For Isshin..
Isshin basically did what a common third seat could do (defeat what I thought was grand fisher). Although when his (isshin) reitsu was sensed people were worried, but when they felt ichigo's they werent. Soooooo....
Souzouryoku
2005-12-26, 22:44
Well..since we're discussing Isshin being on par with captains and all..I thought here would be a good place to post this :| I've been itching to put it up somewhere.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5504/untitled7qx.th.png (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled7qx.png)
Anyone ever notice that before? Most of you prolly did..but it took me a couple times of reading the chapter (3 to be exact) to actually catch it..It didn't exactly stick out at me right away. If you look close enough..that's defenitely part of a captain's robe. Or..haori? I believe it is called.
DrunkenRyder
2005-12-26, 23:18
Wow, good observation. I wonder what division.
Souzouryoku
2005-12-26, 23:20
Nah..not a good observation on my part at all actually haha. I was looking over a LJ community post for Bleach..and this popped up. I had never noticed it..it's actually pretty sad on my part :p I really have to start paying more attention, huh? :|
DrunkenRyder
2005-12-26, 23:26
I just thought it was a rebel shinigami fashion statement, like what renji does after he completes bankai training.
CorpMazral3
2005-12-26, 23:33
zomg..never noticed that before O.o definitely a piece of a captain's cloth. This is startin to get very interesting...it'd be really cool if Kenpachi had been the one to have kicked Isshin out of the captain's position. Were we ever given any details about that anyway?
DrunkenRyder
2005-12-26, 23:37
I was thinking about that, I mean it was all ripped up when Kenpachi I had it. But didn't kenpachi "kill" the former 10th division captain? And then again if kenpachi knocked Isshin out of his postion, then we clearly know how strong isshin is.
zomg..never noticed that before O.o definitely a piece of a captain's cloth. This is startin to get very interesting...it'd be really cool if Kenpachi had been the one to have kicked Isshin out of the captain's position. Were we ever given any details about that anyway?
Kenpachi killed the previous Captain of the 11th squad...so technically speaking Isshin should not have been the previous 11th squad Captain. Also, just because he's as strong as a Captain doesn't mean he had to be one (even with that piece of cloth that looks like part of a Captain's robes).
Souzouryoku
2005-12-26, 23:44
I would be really dissapointed if Isshin had been beaten by Kenpachi. But then again, Kenpachi did say he had killed the previous captain...so it most likely isn't Isshin. It could be some kind of plot hole (it seems as if a plot hole is an excuse for everything that hasn't been explained these days)..or maybe a fib kenpachi made up to make himself seem stronger :D (i doubt it tho..)I'm hoping Isshin is more powerful than most of the captains..or atleast as strong as them. I really hope his reason for going to earth is good one :D
or maybe a fib kenpachi made up to make himself seem stronger :D (i doubt it tho..)
I doubt it. According to Tousen, it has to take place in front of 200 of that squad's members. I doubt Kenpachi can simply lie about winning when there are so many witnesses, not to mention Kenpachi doesn't seem like the kind of guy to lie about winning or losing a fight. After all, he doesn't care about winning or losing, all he cares about is how much he enjoys the fight. So uhh...he really doesn't seem like that kinda guy to me.
maybe there was a 14th squade before, and ishinn was the captain o.0 but then he left and they only hav 13 squads left
True, Kenpachi doesn't look like someone who would lie about these thing.
I 'm not sure if he said it himself that he killed the previous 11th squad captain, I thought it was Tousen who mentioned that when he fought Kenpachi at one point.
It was Tousen...but I mean, if he killed the previous Captain, he'd have to have some kind of proof I suppose...besides the 200 spectators. I'd assume he'd also have to present himself in front of the other Captains (or Commander Yamamoto at the very least) and let him know that he defeated...err, killed, the previous Captain. It's at this point where the whole thing about Kenpachi lying, which I mentioned in my previous post, would come into play...in my opinion anyways. His character just doesn't match with that of one who would accept a victory when it wasn't a true victory (claiming he killed the previous Captain and taking his spot when he didn't truly kill the guy). Of course this is all just my opinion, and obviously other people are entitled to their own opinion. I'm just pointing things out that others might not think of/realize...that's all.
The badge thing is quite an interesting development. Of course it lacks a squad number...curse you Kubo and your mysterious story-telling ways! :p
Well, Aizen killed Hinamori and Hitsugaya, Byakuya killed Ichigo and Renji... so beeing killed does't seem to be much of a problem in this world. :p :D
They didn't really outright kill them. They mortally/fatally wounded their opponents. Technically speaking, Hinamori, Hitsugaya, Ichigo and Renji were not really "dead" at that point. Death was an inevitability if there hadn't been any intervention by anyone, but they were never truly dead, just on the verge of death.
Kenpachi killed the previous Captain of the 11th squad...so technically speaking Isshin should not have been the previous 11th squad Captain. Also, just because he's as strong as a Captain doesn't mean he had to be one (even with that piece of cloth that looks like part of a Captain's robes).
Well you never know. Urahara could of helped isshin faked his death and thats when he escaped.
Souzouryoku
2005-12-27, 18:39
That's what I was thinking. Kenpachi could have thought Isshin was dead..or could have left him to die, much like he did with Ichigo. Except, instead of making a comeback like Ichigo did, Isshin escaped..or something like that :p
Anyway...I'm sure everything will be revealed in due time. *sigh* until then, we shall wait patiently..and agonize over it :| :D
You know has anyone considered that Isshin could've been former Captain of the 10th Division?
As far as I know...Hitsugaya has been a Captain for a EXTREMELY short ammount of time........literally within normal human lifespan years, so who would've been Captain before him?
Likewise he could've also been former Captains of the 9th or 7th Divisions since as far as I know even if Isshin left at the same time as Urahara, 12th Division was succeeded by Mayuri around the time that Komamura and Tousen became Captains....and Aizen does imply that he pulled some strings to make sure Komamura became a Captain, chances are it could've been around the time Urahara left.
You know has anyone considered that Isshin could've been former Captain of the 10th Division?
As far as I know...Hitsugaya has been a Captain for a EXTREMELY short ammount of time........literally within normal human lifespan years, so who would've been Captain before him?
Likewise he could've also been former Captains of the 9th or 7th Divisions since as far as I know even if Isshin left at the same time as Urahara, 12th Division was succeeded by Mayuri around the time that Komamura and Tousen became Captains....and Aizen does imply that he pulled some strings to make sure Komamura became a Captain, chances are it could've been around the time Urahara left.
maybe... wait, im assuming ishinn got married after he left SS, cuz that would make it right for ichigo to be flesh... so yeah, it can be anyone for now...
Isshin could be the previous third captain. We know that Gin used to be a Vice under Aizen.
Isshin could be the previous third captain. We know that Gin used to be a Vice under Aizen.
I thought Gin was alwaies a vc under Aizen, he was just playing the part of a capton? I am probably wrong thow so please correct me if I am wrong :confused:
apu:
a long time ago Gin was in the 5th division under Aizen as his Vice Captain. Later on, he got offered captain of the 3rd Division, and took it. But, given Aizen's plan to gain more power, Gin still remained loyal to Aizen, even though they didn't come from the same division.
Wait... if isshin was a captian in SS, that means he was "dead"/spirit (As in a dead human). So that means he was using Urahahra's reitsu sucking Faux body. (This would explain his inability to sense ghosts before? or he was just faking it...)
If he was faking it, that means Urahahra made the faux body better? or else the people from SS would be able to find him.
If it WAS the same kinda of faux body that Rukia was using, how did he retain/regain his powers?
Also, you can have children when using a faux body???
D-Technolife
2005-12-28, 21:43
Well you never know. Urahara could of helped isshin faked his death and thats when he escaped.
i dont think isshin escaped i think he left SS b4 or maybe after urahara left... 'coz there was no mention that urahara was with anyone except yurouchi when he left SS... and its "could have" man not "could of" ehehehe:D
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