Hypothetical Bleach question... *Spoilers from eps 2 and 3 and recent manga*

[Starks]

Did Inoue Sora (Orihime's brother) become an Arrancar when he dissolved his mask?

[Soluzar]

Did Inoue Sora (Orihime's brother) become an Arrancar when he dissolved his mask?

I would say "No, because that was probably before Kubo invented Arrancar."

However, there could be room for me to be wrong.

[Desti-Fate]

I think he would still be a hollow; if he left it the mask would grow back. If it was just a question of pulling it off every hollow would be an arrancar.

[sarrah]

true true i agree wit desti fate.... it cant be that easy


spoiler****
since its necessary to have the hongyoku to become one...the hollows didnt have it at that time

[Starks]

true true i agree wit desti fate.... it cant be that easy


spoiler****
since its necessary to have the hongyoku to become one...the hollows didnt have it at that time
What about the chapter with D. Roy and Grimmjow scolding the Grand Fisher after he lost to Ichigo?

[ScytheBlade]

Why the hell would Aizen want the hongyoku if Hollows could just take off their masks and become Arrankar? There would be no use of a pact to Aizen then.

[NoSanninWa]

Everyone is complicating this issue way too much. It is really quite simple.

No, because in order to become an Arrancar, he'd have to become a shinigami.

He just became a ghost. There really isn't anything to argue about if you remember what an Arancar is. It isn't a former hollow. It is a hollow that becomes a shinigami.

[Sety]

What about the chapter with D. Roy and Grimmjow scolding the Grand Fisher after he lost to Ichigo?
Which chapter was that?

[Souzouryoku]

Volume 3..Ichigo had just finished fighting Grandfisher. It's chapter 25..or something like that..

[Sety]

Woah...they never included that scene in the anime at all.....I didn't realize Grimjow had appeared so early.

[Souzouryoku]

It was weird when I first read it in the manga. I was like wtf? But now it sort of makes sense. I wish they had animated it though. Maybe they will do it later.

[Arti]

Probably because the anime people didn't know what to make of that scene. Heh.

[QuicksilverPhoenix]

true true i agree wit desti fate.... it cant be that easy


spoiler****
since its necessary to have the hongyoku to become one...the hollows didnt have it at that time

You don't need to have the hougyoku because....

Ichigo became an arrancar when he fought Byakuya and he didn't use the hougyoku to become one. Well at least thats what is seemed to me.

[MrProphet]

You are messing up two different points.

Visored: shinigami => hollow

That's what Ichigo has become (kinda).

Arrancar: hollow => shinigami

That's what Aizen's henchmen have become via hougyuku.

Orihime's brother is not an arrancar because he didn't become a shinigami after the fact. He isn't a Visored, because he was not a shinigami before the fact.

He became just a ghost, that's it.

[NoSanninWa]

Another clarification:

The hougyoku is not necessary to become a shinigami / hollow hybrid. What Aizen said, is that without the hougyoku, these hybrids are incomplete or unbalanced. You can become an inferior hybrid through other methods.

[Novarain]

You are messing up two different points.

Visored: shinigami => hollow

That's what Ichigo has become (kinda).

Arrancar: hollow => shinigami

That's what Aizen's henchmen have become via hougyuku.

Orihime's brother is not an arrancar because he didn't become a shinigami after the fact. He isn't a Visored, because he was not a shinigami before the fact.

He became just a ghost, that's it.

Not really either. Ichigo is neither a Vizard nor an Arrancar.

Vizard: Shinigami => Hollow

Arrancar: Hollow => Shinigami

Ichigo: He kinda gained both at the same time when under Urahara's so called "training". He was a normal human soul, he formed the mask of a hollow but gained shinigami powers at the same time meaning that he might be the most perfect hybrid shinigami/hollow ever created. whether it's a good thing or not is yet to be seen though...

[Biswa]

Another thing that may be required for a transformation is a "Shattered shaft." This shattered shaft was present when ichigo attempted to regain his shinigami powers. This was also seen in like chapter 25 when the Grand Fisher was thrown down some shaft after his fight. So Inoue's brother was never put into the shaft, and isn't anything except a hollow with a broken mask.

[MrProphet]

Hypothetically, normal Visored (Vaizard, whatever) also become what they when they let their inner hollow gain conrtol over them in a dire situation. So, Ichigo would be a Visored that has not fully succumbed to his inner hollow yet.

Ichigo isn't an arrancar because he was not a hollow when the change happened, he was a shinigami.

[Arti]

But if Ichigo is indeed a reincarnation of Kaien, I think he would be considered a vizard (shinigami -> hollow)

[MrProphet]

Hollows are not the opposite of a Shinigami.

There are two types of ghosts: Plus and Hollow. Shinigami are the gods of ghosts, they send the Pluses to Soul Society and cleanse the Hollows.

Arrancar are Hollow that became Shinigami.
Visored are Shinigami that became Hollow.

Hougyouku only makes shinigami out of Hollows (and other special-powered Hollows).

It does not make Hollows out of Shinigami, as far as I understood Aizen. That process is mostly "natural", it happens by itself.

Menos Grande, Gillian, Ajucas and Vastrode are a type of Hollow.

So far this is all Kubo has told us.

[QuicksilverPhoenix]

I dont know about other level, but maybe other type. Because if you remember, when Ichigo became a shinigami, he was also becoming a hollow, we didn't see the transformation, he coud become a hollow then became a shinigami, or fist became a shinigami and then became hollow, or became an hybrid directly form a plus, and that is the third one I think. We don't know because we didn't see the transformation.

You are messing up two different points.

Yeah, sorry about that. :heh:

[NoSanninWa]

And what I wanted to know: Is there another level between Arankals and Vaizards?
An Arankal is essentially a hollow with shinigami attributes and a Visored is a shinigami with hollow attributes.

By "another level" do you mean someone who is equal parts shinigami and hollow without either being supreme? That is probably what Aizen is intending to become once he gets some experience with the Hougyouku. An interesting point is that since Ichigo became a hollow and a shinigami simulataneously he might also fall into that category.

I wonder if Uruhara did that to Ichigo on purpose because he realized that he might need someone with the same power as Aizen if everything went blooey. Uruhara's backup plan, as it were...

[Jhereg42]

I think that Ichigo is just a unique case and that not even Aizen is aware of what he did. These other types are Hollows becoming Shinigami or vice versa. . . Ichigo is a melding of the two. His soul was fused with a Hollow and them "Bleached" by Rukia's blade. We know from Rukia's drawings earlier that when a Death God kills a Hollow the soul is put back into the celestial version of the primordial ooze to be sent back some time later. I think this last step of "Bleaching" the fused souls is something Aizen never considered and would not subject himself to because of the risk.

I also think that Urahara, Ishin and Co. know about this, and that this is the Ace up their sleave when it comes to Aizen and the others.

[NoSanninWa]

IBTW, Aizen said, that for separating the Hougyoku from Rukia's Soul, he needed to burn away the soul with the Soukyoku. Now I wonder: What would have happened, if they just executed Rukia the "normal" way, in which her Soul would have gotten reborn? Would it have taken the Hougyoku with it?
From what he said it is pretty clear that the answer is yes. He said the her soul was so entangled with the Hougyoku that they were inseperable. If Rukia's death won't separate her from the Hougyoku (or else he'da just kilt her), then obviously she'd get reincarnated with it in her, like Kagome with the Shikon no Tama.