View Full Version : Who is the real queen of Windbloom? (possible spoilers)
mikemil828
2005-12-25, 17:12
So we have three girls who know the same song, and have the same birthday, Mashiro's reign is in dispute, who can be the true Queen of Windbloom?
In my opinion all three could be, here is what I think.
It has been said that Rena was not only the Otome of the King, but also his daughter, apparently she was forced into this mantle, and eventually she decided to cast aside the role of otome and have a daughter herself and timed it so that the baby was born exactly on the same day that her younger sister would be born. Anyway it would be a major scandal if the Princess/Otome broke one of the unbreakable rules of being an Otome, and rather dangerous as there would be no otome to protect the castle, so they made it so they would rotate the babies around so that it would look like only one child had been born, one would be sent to the Minister and the others would be sent to the grandma.
In Episode 7 Mashiro said that her Mother was the King and Queen, and most likely Mashiro is the younger sister of Rena, Arika most likely was born of Rena.
How does Nina fit in this, well I believe Arika and Nina are actually twins, and on the night that Rena died, Nina was the one placed in the basket with the necklace, how the necklace ended up with Arika is uncertain.
What do you think?
Takemi_Ikazuchi
2005-12-25, 17:15
Aoi obviously
Tremalkinger
2005-12-25, 18:26
There is far too little information to really answer the question. Of course, that didn't stop me from voting Nina.
Can you give me a source on the whole Rena being the King's daughter deal? I don't remember that ever being stated. While I think its a possibility (perhaps likely), I don't remember it ever being stated as fact.
The main reason why I think its going to be Nina? It would make for a good story.
PastPrime
2005-12-25, 18:33
I think that, given that they are trying to make her look like a fake, Mashiro will be the real queen. If not her, then Nina. Of course, they may fool everyone, and in the end we find out that they disguised the real pricess as a cat.
lana3007
2005-12-25, 18:56
Of course, they may fool everyone, and in the end we find out that they disguised the real pricess as a cat.
Actually, considering what we are watching that might not be all that far off. I mean there is already a very suspicious Mikito looking shadow around, so who knows?
As for the Nina/Arika/Mashiro question .. I don't think it's going to be Arika because if she really is the queen she will have to give up being an Otome, which would be a little pointless considering all of her dreams that are so emphasized by the series. Whether Nina or Mashiro ends up being the queen, Arika in my opinion will remain an Otome.
But between Mashiro and Nina ... I am not ready to make a choice yet.
Definitively Nina is my choice, although until now there is no enough information to state this... i just have that feeling... specially after episode six where, before getting unconscious, she saw a ....what? flashback? of Rena (maybe placing Nina in the basket?? or... perhaps they crossed by chance.. who knows.. for me, Nina is the queen but it's just speculation).
The "flashback" nina saw on episode 6
http://img41.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_b83bc_oto01.jpg (http://img41.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=b83bc_oto01.jpg)
Akuma-sama
2005-12-25, 19:53
Good idea to set up this pool :D
:stupid: I voted Nina
Anh_Minh
2005-12-25, 20:14
Nagi is the real queen. To protect his identity, he even goes as far as crossdressing.
I think we'll either get proof that Mashiro is the real deal, or we'll never get to now. I don't think it'll really matter who's real in the end, because Mashiro WILL end up being the queen no matter what. (Fake or not.) All signs seems to point to Arika ending up as Mashiro's otome, and she can't have an otome if she's not the queen. Unless, of course, Arika makes an exeption, destoying the whole otome system, creating chaos, somehow forcing everyone to battle each other for some reason, and then everyone dies, and we'll have a reset and... no.
But really, isn't obvious Wind Bloom is Mashiro's country? After all, her Mai Hime name was Mashiro Kazahana. Kazahana = Wind bloom. ;)
Tatiana Razajev
2005-12-25, 20:34
I'm not exactly sure, but I personally would love the idea of all three of them being royalty. I mean I could almost imagine them ruling the country together and getting into three way debates on what should and should not be done.
Akuma-sama
2005-12-25, 20:44
Nagi wants to be the real queen. To protect his identity, he will even go as far as crossdressing.
Corrected. :D
PastPrime
2005-12-25, 21:29
I'm not exactly sure, but I personally would love the idea of all three of them being royalty. I mean I could almost imagine them ruling the country together and getting into three way debates on what should and should not be done.
I think that, if Mashiro is the Queen and the Otome system survives with Arika as her Otome, they will be very popular at parties of royalty. The others would get a lot of laughs out of the fights between them when Mashiro tries to get Arika to serve her the way the other Otomes serve their masters. I could see a lot of statements like "Your arms and legs aren't broken, get it yourself" coming from Arika.
Tempest35
2005-12-25, 21:43
*chuckles* I can imagine Nina being Queen and she lowers the age requirement for marriage...:heh:
Nina: Otousama~ I wish to get married.
Sergey: That's great! Who's the lucky guy, Ni~na-chan?
Nina: *blushes terribly* ... you, Otousama...
Sergey: Ah, that's grea~ 0.o WHAAA~AAT!?!
Shizuru: Ara~ ara~
Natsuki: *embarrassed angry blush* ... matte ku, I never thought he was that bad...
Sergey: Eh!? N-no!! Wait, this is a mistake!!
Tate (MH): *claps a hand on his shoulder* Don't worry man, I know how it feels to have someone 'related' to ya want to cross 'that' line.
Sergey: .... who are you??? AND DON'T COMPARE ME TO YOU!!
Heh heh, I had fun writing that bit. Hey, something interesting and fun - how about we make up our own lines like how they do at the previews for the next episode? On another thread of course...:D v
Xellos-_^
2005-12-25, 22:10
I think that, if Mashiro is the Queen and the Otome system survives with Arika as her Otome, they will be very popular at parties of royalty. The others would get a lot of laughs out of the fights between them when Mashiro tries to get Arika to serve her the way the other Otomes serve their masters. I could see a lot of statements like "Your arms and legs aren't broken, get it yourself" coming from Arika.
At the same part we will also sww Shizuru 'testing" all the young women there to see if any are suitable to be Otomes :naughty:
Back to topice, i think Mashiro after all said and done is the Queen. Becuase unless MO is plan for more then 26 Eps, it would be too messy for the storyline to be otherwise.
bluegarden
2005-12-25, 22:29
obviously mikoto is the real queen, she's just pretending to be a cat:D
mikemil828
2005-12-25, 22:44
There is far too little information to really answer the question. Of course, that didn't stop me from voting Nina.
Can you give me a source on the whole Rena being the King's daughter deal? I don't remember that ever being stated. While I think its a possibility (perhaps likely), I don't remember it ever being stated as fact.
The main reason why I think its going to be Nina? It would make for a good story.
Well it was spoken here, the whole Rena being the King's Daughter bit, but there is some consequential evidence to back up that it might have happened. Back in Episode 4 Yayoi-chan wondered about Arika's roots, she asked (in passing, great place if any for forshadowing) if she (Arika) was a princess from some noble family. Apparently it isn't all that rare to have actual royalty training to become otomes for their families, perhaps Rena is was just one of those cases
Thewanderer
2005-12-25, 22:56
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Deadbrain80/1134707493162.jpg
Hmmm...
Mod Edit:Never mind. Thread title warns of spoilers.
mikemil828
2005-12-25, 23:05
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Deadbrain80/1134707493162.jpg
Hmmm...
Hmm, what?
Mod Edit:Never mind. Thread title warns of spoilers.
Thewanderer
2005-12-25, 23:07
Hmm, what?
The picture.
mikemil828
2005-12-25, 23:09
The picture.
All three have the same birthday, so?
Thewanderer
2005-12-25, 23:11
All three have the same birthday, so?
All 3 who? I'm lost...
mikemil828
2005-12-25, 23:13
All 3 who? I'm lost...
The pic merely showed that Sergay knows that Arika, Nina, and Mashiro has the same birthday
Thewanderer
2005-12-25, 23:14
The pic merely showed that Sergay knows that Arika, Nina, and Mashiro has the same birthday
Oh great, now you spoiled part of that ep...
*hasn't watched past ep 10 yet*
:( Oh well...
mikemil828
2005-12-25, 23:18
Oh for crying out loud, is there a point at all to you bringing the pic up?
I did say possible spoilers on the topic title, you were warned
Xellos-_^
2005-12-25, 23:20
The pic merely showed that Sergay knows that Arika, Nina, and Mashiro has the same birthday
Actually we don't know if Nina has the same birthday as Arika and Mashiro. Sergy decided her birthday would be the same day he meet her at the hospital. So it is still up in the air when is her real birthday. Only Arika and Mashiro is confirm to have the same birthday.
Thewanderer
2005-12-25, 23:20
Oh for crying out loud, is there a point at all to you bringing the pic up?
Dude, I found it 4chan and thought it'd help, that's all.
Sorry for trying to perform a successful good deed once in my life...
mikemil828
2005-12-25, 23:40
Dude, I found it 4chan and thought it'd help, that's all.
Sorry for trying to perform a successful good deed once in my life...
Hint: Before trying to help people, try not to be 2 episodes behind everyone else, almost everyone but you knew the context of the screenshot. Your apparently only attempt at performing a good deed most likely would have been better used elsewhere.
Actually we don't know if Nina has the same birthday as Arika and Mashiro. Sergy decided her birthday would be the same day he meet her at the hospital. So it is still up in the air when is her real birthday. Only Arika and Mashiro is confirm to have the same birthday.
Fine, Sergay knows that Nina coincidentally-had-the-same-birthday-which-was-set-by-him-and-possibly-could-have-had-a-different-birthday-then-when-it-is-normally-celebrated....as Arika and Mashiro do
Thewanderer
2005-12-25, 23:44
Hint: Before trying to help people, try not to be 2 episodes behind everyone else, almost everyone but you knew the context of the screenshot. Your apparently only attempt at performing a good deed most likely would have been better used elsewhere.
The posts at 4chan led me to belive otherwise.
And yes, I'm aware that 4chan isn't the most reliable sorce for that type of thing...
USCPharmacist
2005-12-25, 23:55
actually we only know the princess brithday is 9/7, we don't really know if any of the girls were born that day. Mashiro was "found", Nina was adopted, and Arika were picked up by baachan. All of those could've been made up by someone.
PersocomChi
2005-12-26, 01:53
I still think Arika have a great possiblity of being the princess because of her saphire necklace. And we know the necklace belongs to the king's otome and its natural for the king's otome to protect the princess when the king got killed. I think thats what made me think that she's the princess. Besides from that, the birthday is the same as the princess...but then again any girl can have the same brithday but theres only one sapphire necklace.
I think even Arika really IS the real Queen, she will give it up in favour of Mashiro. She just wants to be an Otome, we already saw how she react towards a Queen's life in ep 12.
P.S. I really like the way Sergey labal Arika's birthday. With an ant. LOL
I have a theory that Mashiro, Arika and Nina are triplets and thus are all technically the princess. However Arika and Nina were spared the destiny of being a princess and were given to Rena Sayers as her children because she could never bare a child. The knowledge of there really being 3 princesses was never disclosed.
Rena's contract was cancelled as Arika was predetermined to be Mashiro's otome and they needed the GEMs to be free, but this left an opening for Windbloom to be raided by both the Schwartz and the Aswald. I can't assume their intentions correctly, but it was probably something to do with the Harmonium. The king and queen ended victims of regicide.
Rena left Mashiro in the care of the Duke in secret along with plans to start a rumour of her not being to real princess so she would not be a target, and left Arika and Nina to drift down rivers in baskets.
Arika was let off last with the "Blue Sky Sapphire", as she was intended to be an otome, along with a note explaining how she was the "daughter" of an otome. She eventually wound up with her adoptive grandmother while Nina ended up in the slums of Artai, where she was eventually found and adopted by Sergay.
I have a theory that Mashiro, Arika and Nina are triplets and thus are all technically the princess. However Arika and Nina were spared the destiny of being a princess and were given to Rena Sayers as her children because she could never bare a child. The knowledge of there really being 3 princesses was never disclosed.
Rena's contract was cancelled as Arika was predetermined to be Mashiro's otome and they needed the GEMs to be free, but this left an opening for Windbloom to be raided by both the Schwartz and the Aswald. I can't assume their intentions correctly, but it was probably something to do with the Harmonium. The king and queen ended victims of regicide.
Rena left Mashiro in the care of the Duke in secret along with plans to start a rumour of her not being to real princess so she would not be a target, and left Arika and Nina to drift down rivers in baskets.
Arika was let off last with the "Blue Sky Sapphire", as she was intended to be an otome, along with a note explaining how she was the "daughter" of an otome. She eventually wound up with her adoptive grandmother while Nina ended up in the slums of Artai, where she was eventually found and adopted by Sergay.
Ah, yes. All of them being "the princess" might be plausible... Interesting theory. However, some of the details in this theory seems strange. Nina and Arika was _given_ to Rena? Who gives their child away? Royal children, on top of that. (They're valuable you know. Even daughters. You can give them to other countries rulers. :p )
Why would Rena's contract be cancelled to make Arika into Mashiro's otome when they are still babies? (Also, couldn't she get her own GEM like all other otomes?) It seems more likely it was canceled due to Rena getting preganant, imho.
I'm also sceptical to if the rumour about Mashiro being fake really makes her less targeted. Didn't seem like it in episode 1 and 7. :)
Xellos-_^
2005-12-26, 13:07
actually we only know the princess brithday is 9/7, we don't really know if any of the girls were born that day. Mashiro was "found", Nina was adopted, and Arika were picked up by baachan. All of those could've been made up by someone.
Go back to Episode 3 when Sergy ask Arika where she learn that song she was singing. Arika said that grandma taught her and that the song was sung by her Mother. If grandma knew enough to know about Arika's mother to know about that song then it is very likely that grandma would also know Arika's birthday. So actually out of all three girls only Arika can confirm to have 9/7 as her birthday.
ChainLegacy
2005-12-26, 13:13
Well, I think it's pretty likely that Mashiro, Arika, and Nina are all, in some way, connected to the throne. I can't say at this point which one is the real princess.
*chuckles* I can imagine Nina being Queen and she lowers the age requirement for marriage...:heh:
Nina: Otousama~ I wish to get married.
Sergey: That's great! Who's the lucky guy, Ni~na-chan?
Nina: *blushes terribly* ... you, Otousama...
Sergey: Ah, that's grea~ 0.o WHAAA~AAT!?!
Shizuru: Ara~ ara~
Natsuki: *embarrassed angry blush* ... matte ku, I never thought he was that bad...
Sergey: Eh!? N-no!! Wait, this is a mistake!!
Tate (MH): *claps a hand on his shoulder* Don't worry man, I know how it feels to have someone 'related' to ya want to cross 'that' line.
Sergey: .... who are you??? AND DON'T COMPARE ME TO YOU!!
Heh heh, I had fun writing that bit. Hey, something interesting and fun - how about we make up our own lines like how they do at the previews for the next episode? On another thread of course...:D v
Fantastic! I wouldn't usually condone such comments about Nina's feelings for her father, which I have posted about in depth before, but that post just got me to laugh out loud. Especially with that bit at the end with Sergei freaking out at Tate. Hilarious.
Very interesting theories, I have a few of my own, free from bias by personal feelings of course. Firstly..
Go back to Episode 3 when Sergy ask Arika where she learn that song she was singing. Arika said that grandma taught her and that the song was sung by her Mother. If grandma knew enough to know about Arika's mother to know about that song then it is very likely that grandma would also know Arika's birthday. So actually out of all three girls only Arika can confirm to have 9/7 as her birthday.
>> Contradictory statements. You said it was likely that Arika' (so-called) Grandmother would know her birthday, and then use the word 'confirmed'. 'Confirmed' indicates that there is no doubt at all, and that it was the final element removing all doubt. In actual fact, I would say that couldn't stand up in argument at all. Arika's (unconfirmed she is an actual relative) grandmother is just as likely to make up a birthday as Sergei for Nina or the theif for Mashiro, since we know nothing more than the basics. I'd say even though we can't confirm a single of those birthdays, I'd think they are all probably the real days, just because.. well.. we are watching a 'Mai-' series.
Hmm, I saw someone mention or imply that the queen could not remain an Otome, why is this?
Anyway, my theory number 1:
All three are related. Mashiro will remain the princess, Arika and Nina will continue their education and then career as Otomes, unless the system is overthrown and replaced (I dearly hope so, if a superior system can be created.)
My theory number 2:
Nina is the princess. I cannot entirely explain this theory, as it is partly just this gut feeling I have. Part of it is down to the fact that Mashiro has been made out to be a fake princess, and so people would think she is the real thing just because it seems unlikely, and that Arika seems a likely candidate when not looked into in depth, so Sunrise would do something unexpected I guess..
I'm not sure which position I would have Nina fill, be it princess, Rena's daughter or nobody, actually, what I am sure is that I wouldn't want it to be the last position. Hmm, though, you never know, Mashiro as princess, Nina as Rena's daughter and Arika as nobody seems plausible. I actually can't make a choice, and I'll leave it in the air for the moment, I'm not voting yet. My 2nd theory becomes impossible in a lot of the other slightly wilder theories I have, so disregard that one. I'll leave it there just to see what people think.
Nagi is the real queen. To protect his identity, he even goes as far as crossdressing.
WTF?
Viet? http://www.l2blah.com/images/smilies/l2/delf1_12.GIF
same IRL name with me http://www.l2blah.com/images/smilies/l2/hu2_4.gif
hmm I "feel" that Nina is the real queen...but oh well... wait and see
about arika no one really know what date is her birthday except her"grandma", and we still don't know yet if her grandma really esxit
Can I vote " I don't care who is the real queen"? :)
But if I have to choose I'd say Nina.
KiraDouji
2005-12-26, 15:54
It seems plausible that all three have a connection. Rena, at least, I can see as being a part of the noble family what with the tradition of sending important daughters off to Gaurderobe(sp?). We're pretty sure she had a kid around the same time as the princess that everyone is so worried about was born, and if that's true then both babies would have a claim to the throne.
Additionally, all three of them share resemblances with the possible parents: Nina shares the late queen's eyes; Mashirou the queen's hair color; Arika's eyes exactly match Rena's and her hair "shape" is very similar; Mashirou's hair is also similar to Rena's and her eyes are similar as well; Nina shares a darker hair color with Rena and (I think) the late King. Arika can't be the daughter of the King and Queen because she doesn't share any characteristics with them: eyes, hair, coloring, face, etc... however she shares many characteristics with Rena and the rest can be explained by the mystery man who impregnanted Rena (who still hasn't been revealed).
Given that we've only seen Rena hold one child so far, my guess is that she only had one kid. We've never seen the King and Queen with anyone except Rena, towards which the Queen seems to have a fondness. Thus why I think it's plausible that Rena is part of the family. The other point here is that we have no idea who Nina's parents are because they're purposely never mentioned. I think this is important to note because, in the event that she's not the princess, this can be a very strong plot device. However, Mashirou was merely found and declared to be the King and Queen's still quite young daughter.
In my mind, the question here is more "who are their parents" rather than "who is the queen?" As one can see, there are many ways for all of them to have connections to the throne. Did someone have two kids? If it was the King and Queen, why didn't anyone know about the second child? If it was Rena, why does she only save one girl? If no one had two kids, then is one of these three really a nobody, or are their parents also important? It seems all three are important. Arika, in my mind, is Rena's daughter and has the GEM. Nina, in my mind, matches the King and Queen better than Mashirou. In that case, who is Mashirou? Well, the only thing making her important at that point in the theory is the Harmonium.
Theories abound.
- Kira
mikemil828
2005-12-26, 17:44
Can I vote " I don't care who is the real queen"? :)
But if I have to choose I'd say Nina.
If you don't care, don't vote, simple as that
Arika's (unconfirmed she is an actual relative) grandmother is just as likely to make up a birthday as Sergei for Nina or the theif for Mashiro,
And she just happened to pick the exactly same birthday, as Mashiro and Nina, for Arika? :eyebrow:
Rena lost her powers as Rad said in episode 1, why else would their attack be so successful on Windbloom's castle. Only way an Otome can lose her powers is if she had sex. Arika would indeed be her child. With Arika being Rena's daughter and Mashiro being a replacement all that leaves is Nina. This is from the information given so far. The flashback of Nina seeing Rena might be Rena placing Nina out of harm's way. She might've done that before saving Arika.
Where did this Rena being a princess stuff come from?
Edit:
Nevermind, you don't have a solid source. That's a pretty big assumption with so little information. Not out of the relm of possiblity. Mai was a princess and a Otome, why not Rena? But without solid proof still an assumption.
KiraDouji
2005-12-26, 20:44
Where did this Rena being a princess stuff come from?
Edit:
Nevermind, you don't have a solid source. That's a pretty big assumption with so little information. Not out of the relm of possiblity. Mai was a princess and a Otome, why not Rena? But without solid proof still an assumption.
Excuse me, but it's not an assumption, it's a theory, which is what this whole thread is about. If you want to get technical, we can't say diddly about who's the real princess because of a simple lack of evidence. All we can give are compiled theories based off what we do know.
For that matter, it hasn't been confirmed that Arika is Rena's daughter, we just assume it to be so based on all of the circumstantial evidence and her interactions with Sergey. For me, that's enough to say "Arika is Rena's daughter" for others it may not be so. Just like the precendent of sending noble girls to the academy is enough for me to speculate on the possibilty of Rena being nobility. If she was royalty, she'd have to be royalty from Windbloom because she is serving Windbloom royalty. It's established fact that you serve the country you are from. Whereas the rest of what I've said is merely speculation, but not assumption.
- Kira
Sorry if it sounded rude.
It's been said that Rena is not only the Otome of the King, but also his daughter, apparently forced into this mantle,
That's an assumption more than theory or otherwise. The word assumption sounds harsh but I didn't mean for it in a harsh accusing manner. It's as though the show itself said that Rena is the king's daughter. Unless I'm mistaken it has not. I did say it's possible, I did not dismiss it completely and it does sound likely.
You're right there is too little information on who it is. Just because Rena lost her powers doesn't mean she had a child right? But with Arika calling her mother over and over and Wong saying that he knew her mother. With so little information given so far it is safe to say that she is her mother. There is a great likness between Arika and Rena. Even between Rena and Nina at times.
KiraDouji
2005-12-26, 21:20
"It's been said" was referring to someone else in the thread having the same theory. If I meant it as a reference I would have stated it as such.
- Kira
That was in the beginning post xD. I do stand correct :X
KiraDouji
2005-12-26, 21:41
_-_ Well, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and saying that that's probably what they meant.
If you weren't talking to me, then, I apologise for being snippity. I just hate it if I see something I say or write taken out of context. In the future, could you quote the person you're directing the comment at? If you use the quote button you get their name too... 's helpful so that self-righteous people like me don't think you were talking to us ^^;
- Kira
mikemil828
2005-12-26, 21:52
Rena lost her powers as Rad said in episode 1, why else would their attack be so successful on Windbloom's castle. Only way an Otome can lose her powers is if she had sex. Arika would indeed be her child. With Arika being Rena's daughter and Mashiro being a replacement all that leaves is Nina. This is from the information given so far. The flashback of Nina seeing Rena might be Rena placing Nina out of harm's way. She might've done that before saving Arika.
Where did this Rena being a princess stuff come from?
Edit:
Nevermind, you don't have a solid source. That's a pretty big assumption with so little information. Not out of the relm of possiblity. Mai was a princess and a Otome, why not Rena? But without solid proof still an assumption.
Alright so I made a bit of a assumption, that's what you do when you make a theory about something, scientific method baby!
Granted there isn't anything in the show at this point that would disprove my theory, in fact I found another piece of evidence that would point to Rena possibly being a princess:
Episode 2, Sergay has a flashback to when he was young, and watched Rena sing a the lullaby to 'Baby X', it's pretty obvious at this point that Rena was no longer an otome, not wearing the meister otome dress and having the meister gems stored in the necklace. If she wasn't an otome anymore why was she still at the castle? Having a powerless otome around isn't going to help the King any. It's very possible that the reason Rena was still there was more blood related then otome related
If you think I'm full of it, prove me wrong, otherwise don't whine about it
I think....
Arika is the rightful heir because all of the evidence pertaining to the missing princess is close to her. Besides, she has the Azure of Blue Sky.
Well, that's only IMO anyway :)
floatingbrain
2005-12-26, 22:44
I dont think Nina can be the real princess. I mean, they know the queen's birthday is on sept. 7th. the odds of Nina's real birthday being on sept 7th is 1/365. we do know that once in her lifetime she did know Rena from that flashback scene.
PastPrime
2005-12-26, 22:54
If it was Rena, why does she only save one girl? If no one had two kids, then is one of these three really a nobody, or are their parents also important? It seems all three are important.
- Kira
Since the raid was well under way at the point where the anime started, Rena may very well have already sent one or two other girls to safety before taking her own daughter to her escape route. Probably, near the end, they will have a flashback showing all that happened. I think that all three were important and all three were sent to safety when the attack took place.
KiraDouji
2005-12-26, 23:02
Since the raid was well under way at the point where the anime started, Rena may very well have already sent one or two other girls to safety before taking her own daughter to her escape route.
That's a good point and entirely possible. Another point could be that because she's no longer an otome, perhaps someone else was in charge of the safety of the true princess (whomever that is) and she was only in charge of her own daughter (whomever that is).
- Kira
Thing is, if all three of them have ties to the castle, and perhaps even are siblings, then why did we only se ONE baby in Sergay's flashback? We saw Rena and the former Queen... but only one baby. Of course, they may be at other places in the castle, but usually when you have kids, you tend to have them together most of the time. Ah, well, this doesn't prove anything of course. Maybe we are simply not meant to know their ties fully just yet, and hence, only one child was shown. It might even be Sergay's fault, for remembering the scene wrong. After all, the focus was not on the baby, but on Rena's boo- I mean, the necklace.
And she just happened to pick the exactly same birthday, as Mashiro and Nina, for Arika? :eyebrow:
Ha, it's a story mate. If it's part of the plot, you can't really query it. And we are dealing with a 'Mai-' series, if its one place we are going to face crazy coincidences, it is here. ;)
I dont think Nina can be the real princess. I mean, they know the queen's birthday is on sept. 7th. the odds of Nina's real birthday being on sept 7th is 1/365. we do know that once in her lifetime she did know Rena from that flashback scene.
Like I said, whether Arika's birthday or Mashiro's is actually on September 7th is also up in the air. Since this is a story, and for story purposes it would make sense to actually have all their birthdays on the same day, I'm going to assume, until we get further evidence, that all their birthdays are September 7th. I don't see that Nina being the real princess is any less likely that Arika or Mashiro. Past that, I can't make a decision on which, if it IS just one of them, is the real princess. I think, either way, Mashiro will remain the acting queen.
-KarumA-
2005-12-27, 12:16
http://img41.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_b83bc_oto01.jpg (http://img41.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=b83bc_oto01.jpg)
i voted Arika
i think that the former queen, witch does look a lot like Arika gave birth to her,
Nina's mother was the queen's and king's otome but gave birth to a child, from who i dont know, this child is as for my believe Nina
the baby in the basket could be Arika, or Nina.. i am not sure about that part now..
but maybe Arika as a baby was found by someone, who recognized her from the neclace, she became the foster 'grandmother' where she grew up, this person must have known the queen for some time now
Mashiro-chan is actually no queen, but was made queen by some stupid people who wantd fame and fortune..
so Mashiro's birthday could infact be fake as well, if they want her to be queen she has to have the same birthday as well!
but if Mashiro-chan would find out about this i am sure Arika would let her remain queen and keep this a secret, Arika's dream is to be Otome not queen, and Mashiro can be a great queen later on..
Nina as a baby got lost through everything that happened in the night Windbloom burned and grew up in the streets where sergey found her on that same day as Arika's and Mashiro's birthdays, witch is also the same birthday as Nina's mother
they also said that Nina's real birthday was unknow, Sergey picked that day because it was the day that he first met Nina, Nina thought it was because it was of 'that woman's' birthday, by that she meant the picture in Sergey's book of the queen's Otome
also doesnt that person in the flashback look a bit like Shizuru o.o
*puts on anti-comment shield*
this is not a real proofed gues, just what i think..
asthalanthil
2005-12-28, 11:47
birthday, by that she meant the picture in Sergey's book of the queen's Otome
also doesnt that person in the flashback look a bit like Shizuru o.o
You know what... This might sound a little far-fetched but remember in the beginning, when Arika first sees a TV and sees Shizuru for the first time?
She asks, "Oh, is that the princess?" :heh:
Not saying that Shizuru is 'the' princess but she could be a sister or something to that princess or is a princess herself.
Okok. It's 1247am and I'm talking nonsense :heh: Please forgive me.
But I'm concern about one comment.
Wat does Rado when he said "So this is all the elegant Blue Jewel of Heaven can do after she loses the power of an Otome?" The loss of power is because Rena give birth to a child or is it because of the Sapphire of Heaven is with the baby that she puts in the "basket"(could I say it's a basket?)?
Xellos-_^
2005-12-28, 13:18
But I'm concern about one comment.
Wat does Rado when he said "So this is all the elegant Blue Jewel of Heaven can do after she loses the power of an Otome?" The loss of power is because Rena give birth to a child or is it because of the Sapphire of Heaven is with the baby that she puts in the "basket"(could I say it's a basket?)?
Because she gave birth to a child.
Evidence:
A. Sergy's flashback said the attack on the castle came when the King's otome retire - Thats obviously a reference to Rena.
B. How would Rado know Rena doesn't have the gem anymore?
Tempest35
2005-12-28, 14:59
He has cyber-enhanced visual aids inside his helmet. ^^
Naw, more likely it was one of those 'hush-hush' rumors that got out to the wrong people (Schwartz), thus the attack happened at a very critical time for Windbloom. Since the Otome wasn't active at the time, and because of the stupid treaty, no help came from Gaurderobe and a Princess who's the heir to an immense power was lost.
For some reason, the Meister Otome jewels and the Sapphire of Heaven are very compatible. I myself have questions moreso about that than anything else...^^
He has cyber-enhanced visual aids inside his helmet. ^^
Naw, more likely it was one of those 'hush-hush' rumors that got out to the wrong people (Schwartz), thus the attack happened at a very critical time for Windbloom. Since the Otome wasn't active at the time, and because of the stupid treaty, no help came from Gaurderobe and a Princess who's the heir to an immense power was lost.
For some reason, the Meister Otome jewels and the Sapphire of Heaven are very compatible. I myself have questions moreso about that than anything else...^^
Isn't Rad an Aswald guy?
I vote for Arika cuz of a few reason:
A) The gem that she is holding belongs to her mother and might be a princess at that time.
B) Sergay and Natsuki immediately notice the blue gem and start to have doubt about Mashiro being the true Queen.
C)Sergay and Natsuki immediately ask Arika of her mother's name that she couldn't remember (I assume that the loss princess 14 years ago must be the daughter of Rena and this is what both sergay and Natsuki were looking for)
D)Even the Grand Duke told Sergay ("Do you think everybody had forgotten the incident" in episode 1)...This shows that The Grand Duke knew much more about Arika that the rest and at first sight he knew Mashiro wasn't the true princess.
E) Nina knew about the blue sapphire gem that belongs to Rena and somehow knew that Arika was the heir to it and Sergay did tell Nina something about Rena which we didn't get to hear.
This is what I see might lead to having Arika as the true princess. I might not be entirely correct so if there is anything to add on it feel free to do so.
Xellos-_^
2005-12-28, 17:22
I vote for Arika cuz of a few reason:
A) The gem that she is holding belongs to her mother and might be a princess at that time.
B) Sergay and Natsuki immediately notice the blue gem and start to have doubt about Mashiro being the true Queen.
C)Sergay and Natsuki immediately ask Arika of her mother's name that she couldn't remember (I assume that the loss princess 14 years ago must be the daughter of Rena and this is what both sergay and Natsuki were looking for)
D)Even the Grand Duke told Sergay ("Do you think everybody had forgotten the incident" in episode 1)...This shows that The Grand Duke knew much more about Arika that the rest and at first sight he knew Mashiro wasn't the true princess.
E) Nina knew about the blue sapphire gem that belongs to Rena and somehow knew that Arika was the heir to it and Sergay did tell Nina something about Rena which we didn't get to hear.
This is what I see might lead to having Arika as the true princess. I might not be entirely correct so if there is anything to add on it feel free to do so.
Just to nitpick, i don't think Nagi knows about Arika and Blue Gem. He isn't much older then either Mashiro or Arika, so he woul dhave no first knowledge of the events back then. Any information he has would be 2nd hand info at best. Also nagi even if he knew about the importance of the gem stone doesn't know Arika has them in her posession. So he would have no way of connecting Arika to Windbloom's throne if there is one. The remark was just something he made in response to Sergy.
KiraDouji
2005-12-28, 18:20
Isn't Rad an Aswald guy?
Didn't Aswald break off of Schwartz around then? :confused:
- Kira
Mysticmidnightmaiden
2005-12-28, 18:56
First off, to those argueing that others statements are false because they are based on their assumptions, pleasue remember that no one (save the folks working on the show) knows neither what will happen nor any background knowledge on the Otome universe. So if you're trying to invalidate someone's argument because of a grammar slipup, just gently remind yourself that everyone is freely speaking their opinions.
Back on topic, I like everyone's theries supporting Nina and Arika (though some are a bit too obvious), but I voted for Mashiro the queen. I guess it's just my gut feeling that Sunrise is throwing us a giant red herring with the doubt and drama created around the "false queen". I can see the series ending with this revelation (along with Nina being Rena's daughter and Arika as Sergey's sister, another gut feeling...), but the future just seems too murky for me to come up with a "factual" argument. I think Mashiro will be a good queen after witnessing the events in Episode 12. Nina may know how society works, but can she truely rule over people? I won't even start with Arika, though she may prove to be the most competent in the end. I can't see the happy-go-lucky country bumpkin becoming a queen...
Besides, her dream is to become an Otome, right? (lol)
Xellos-_^
2005-12-28, 19:07
First off, to those argueing that others statements are false because they are based on their assumptions, pleasue remember that no one (save the folks working on the show) knows neither what will happen nor any background knowledge on the Otome universe. So if you're trying to invalidate someone's argument because of a grammar slipup, just gently remind yourself that everyone is freely speaking their opinions.
Back on topic, I like everyone's theries supporting Nina and Arika (though some are a bit too obvious), but I voted for Mashiro the queen. I guess it's just my gut feeling that Sunrise is throwing us a giant red herring with the doubt and drama created around the "false queen". I can see the series ending with this revelation (along with Nina being Rena's daughter and Arika as Sergey's sister, another gut feeling...), but the future just seems too murky for me to come up with a "factual" argument. I think Mashiro will be a good queen after witnessing the events in Episode 12. Nina may know how society works, but can she truely rule over people? I won't even start with Arika, though she may prove to be the most competent in the end. I can't see the happy-go-lucky country bumpkin becoming a queen...
Besides, her dream is to become an Otome, right? (lol)
Well if theres going to a drastic change in the status regarding the nanomachines and otomes and political landscape. Who is to say Arika can't become a Otome and Queen.
Tremalkinger
2005-12-28, 19:08
Nina may know how society works, but can she truely rule over people? I won't even start with Arika, though she may prove to be the most competent in the end. I can't see the happy-go-lucky country bumpkin becoming a queen...
Remember, we are voting on who is actually the queen, not who will end up being the queen. As much as I think Nina is the queen by heredity, I also equally ferverently hope that Mashiro ends up staying the queen (hopefully after Takumi teaches her a thing or two about being a decent leader).
Mysticmidnightmaiden
2005-12-28, 19:36
Remember, we are voting on who is actually the queen, not who will end up being the queen. As much as I think Nina is the queen by heredity, I also equally ferverently hope that Mashiro ends up staying the queen (hopefully after Takumi teaches her a thing or two about being a decent leader).
Oops, my bad! I started ranting again... (lol):D
What I simply wanted to say was that Mashiro is the queen. Period.
Tremalkinger
2005-12-28, 19:39
Oops, my bad! I started ranting again... (lol):D
What I simply wanted to say was that Mashiro is the queen. Period.
The more I think about it, the more I like that option. I don't think its TRUE, but would very much enjoy it if it came to be. Let's hear it for red herrings!
Catgirls
2005-12-28, 19:49
What I simply wanted to say was that Mashiro is the queen. Period.It's a Sunrise show. There's still a change they could completely jack us....but I do want Mashiro to be queen. Purple hair rules.
Xellos-_^
2005-12-28, 20:12
.but I do want Mashiro to be queen. Purple hair rules.
But Blonds know how to have more fun as Ralphn has shown us :D
Well if theres going to a drastic change in the status regarding the nanomachines and otomes and political landscape. Who is to say Arika can't become a Otome and Queen.
Mai was a princess and a otome, I don't see why Arika can't be an Otome and Queen. She could serve Windbloom and materialise like the pillars can. Highly possible!
Although it would be weird, an otome is and can be a second voice on actions. Kinda like saying "attacking them is a bad idea" or "I won't do that" xD. With the second voice out of the way Arika could do as she pleases, who needs advisors if you could do it yourself =P? She'll have control of the kingdom and a lot of power under her hands, the other nations might not like this. If the other nations have a say on who get's into Galdroupe they probably have a say who get's meistar gems x.x
Xellos-_^
2005-12-28, 21:20
Mai was a princess and a otome, I don't see why Arika can't be an Otome and Queen. She could serve Windbloom and materialise like the pillars can. Highly possible!
Although it would be weird, an otome is and can be a second voice on actions. Kinda like saying "attacking them is a bad idea" or "I won't do that" xD. With the second voice out of the way Arika could do as she pleases, who needs advisors if you could do it yourself =P? She'll have control of the kingdom and a lot of power under her hands, the other nations might not like this. If the other nations have a say on who get's into Galdroupe they probably have a say who get's meistar gems x.x
Arika already has a meister gem.
Yep Arika is only half way there xD It's better this way since she can't do what she pleases without Mashiro's concent, she's the word of wisdom :3 (not sure if that's saying much since it's Mashiro ^^;; )
Just to nitpick, i don't think Nagi knows about Arika and Blue Gem. He isn't much older then either Mashiro or Arika, so he woul dhave no first knowledge of the events back then. Any information he has would be 2nd hand info at best. Also nagi even if he knew about the importance of the gem stone doesn't know Arika has them in her posession. So he would have no way of connecting Arika to Windbloom's throne if there is one. The remark was just something he made in response to Sergy.
Hmmm..what you say might also be true but Nagi seems to know what sergay is thinking.....Nagi might actually know the history of the Rena from someone else.
-KarumA-
2005-12-29, 05:01
Mai was a princess and a otome, I don't see why Arika can't be an Otome and Queen. She could serve Windbloom and materialise like the pillars can. Highly possible!
yes but Mai didnt go on for queen..
and for an otome to become queen and otome, if Arika was to become this what would become of Mashiro
by the way as an otome she still needs someone to contract with, she has someone to contract it, but if Mashiro is being calle dout as a fake queen, what do you think will happen, she will be hated by everyone and maybe even kicked out of Windbloom, that way the contract is pretty much useless if Mashiro is out of Windbloom and Arika has to stay within grounds becaus she's the queen
and it can be much to hectic, we dont yet know what Mai has been through that made her a rogue Otome, but i am sure it is dreadfull..
it is way to dangerous to be queen and otome
also to keep the royal bloodline going Arika, if she were queen, couldnt be an otome later on, she would have to give birth to the succesor of Windbloom, that way it was pretty much useless to be an Otome from the start, if you can only stay it for a short while..
Didn't Aswald break off of Schwartz around then? :confused:
- Kira
Umm.. perhaps.. I can't remember. Actually, I remember something along those lines, no, wait.. I though people were speculating how Aswald could have be co-operating with Shwartz for the raid, therefore making the two organisations distinctly seperate even back then.
Back on topic, I like everyone's theries supporting Nina and Arika (though some are a bit too obvious), but I voted for Mashiro the queen. I guess it's just my gut feeling that Sunrise is throwing us a giant red herring with the doubt and drama created around the "false queen". I can see the series ending with this revelation (along with Nina being Rena's daughter and Arika as Sergey's sister, another gut feeling...), but the future just seems too murky for me to come up with a "factual" argument. I think Mashiro will be a good queen after witnessing the events in Episode 12. Nina may know how society works, but can she truely rule over people? I won't even start with Arika, though she may prove to be the most competent in the end. I can't see the happy-go-lucky country bumpkin becoming a queen...
Besides, her dream is to become an Otome, right? (lol)
That would be awful. Horrible. God forbid. That would do less than nothing for Nina's compex. What with her being the daughter of Sergei's love (that I have no real problem with, and I find it likely) AND a relationship between Arika and Sergei being made impossible in Nina's mind because they are relatives. That would mess her head up completely just when she was about to sort herself out.
Arika in power? Holy crap.. thats a death wish if ever there was one. You might as well just pour kerosene over the world, set it alight and let it burn for all the good it would do. Arika ending up the most competent in the end? Eeeep... *___* Now, I have no problem with the way Arika is, in fact, I like her, but putting someone like her as queen and an Otome at the same time is a sure fire way to take the population of the world down a few 0s. Mashiro should be left as queen, regardless of blood line, and the Otome hierarchy should be overthrown and replaced. Arika and Nina should be left to pursue careers as Otomes. Not royalty. I think by the end of the series, Mashiro will make a very, very good queen. We have seen progress already.
I do think Arika might claim back her throne if she ever get to know her mother background. Even if she doesn't take back her throne the citizens might have be discontented that they are under the rule of a fake Queen. Also becoming a Queen and an otome might be a fine idea actually cuz Arika can be both queen and the kingdom protector.
Well...
Random person: "Hey, Arika! You're the real hier of the throne of Wind Bloom, how 'bout becoming a Queen?"
Arika: :confused: *remembers ep. 12* :upset:
Yeah... I don't really think she's fit for being a ruler. And she would hardly want to become one herself. So I think the chanses of her actually being the real queen are pretty slim. It seems like things tends to usually work out pretty well in the end when it comes to anime series.
I do think Arika might claim back her throne if she ever get to know her mother background. Even if she doesn't take back her throne the citizens might have be discontented that they are under the rule of a fake Queen. Also becoming a Queen and an otome might be a fine idea actually cuz Arika can be both queen and the kingdom protector.
Don't you think that the other nations will probably be very much against an Otome queen? Although in the case of Arika they might be willing to accept her and count on her to ruin the country.:heh:
I think by the end of the series, Mashiro will make a very, very good queen. We have seen progress already.
True...if you call progress getting from being very spoiled and somewhat stupid to being a bit less spoiled and stupid. I wouldn't go as far as claiming she would make a good queen if it wasn't the opening which shows her as one of the main characters. ;)
-KarumA-
2005-12-29, 11:15
like i said before, i also do not thinkt hat Arika will ever take on rule of queen and become an otome at the same time..
because one thing :
if Arika becomes Queen of Windbloom, what will happen to Mashiro?
beside id rather think that Arika would let Mashiro continue to rules over Windbloom, because she's beter at it then she herself will ever be, i think she'd rather stand by her side as her protector
Xellos-_^
2005-12-29, 11:33
like i said before, i also do not thinkt hat Arika will ever take on rule of queen and become an otome at the same time..
because one thing :
if Arika becomes Queen of Windbloom, what will happen to Mashiro?
beside id rather think that Arika would let Mashiro continue to rules over Windbloom, because she's beter at it then she herself will ever be, i think she'd rather stand by her side as her protector
If Arika and Mashiro do manage to null thier contract, I expect Mashiro to die. There have already been 2 attempts on her life already, 3rd time may be the charm. In which case if Mashiro did die, I expect someone to be to connect Arika with what happen 15 yrs ago.
Also if some of the speculation is correct then we will see a drastic upheavel on both the political, otome and technological status quote. We may see the first super Otome, able to materialize without a contract and her nanomachines without a certain weakness.
Speculation: the dark otome we see in the opening, might that be Rena? We never actually saw her die, so she could have been capture. With Shwartz getting the data disc, might that allow then to brian wash Rena and turn her into a Dark Otome.
-KarumA-
2005-12-29, 11:50
If Arika and Mashiro do manage to null thier contract, I expect Mashiro to die. There have already been 2 attempts on her life already, 3rd time may be the charm. In which case if Mashiro did die, I expect someone to be to connect Arika with what happen 15 yrs ago.
Also if some of the speculation is correct then we will see a drastic upheavel on both the political, otome and technological status quote. We may see the first super Otome, able to materialize without a contract and her nanomachines without a certain weakness.
Speculation: the dark otome we see in the opening, might that be Rena? We never actually saw her die, so she could have been capture. With Shwartz getting the data disc, might that allow then to brian wash Rena and turn her into a Dark Otome.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8136/darkotome6yy.th.gif (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkotome6yy.gif)
made a screenie of the dark Otome
Rena is that black/grey haired Otome right..
if that is so, she couldnt be a dark Otome, she has lost her otome powers, so bye bye nano machines for her
by the way if you look at the size of the figure, id say she isnt that old, i think around the age that the students and pearls are, theres no real feminine hips and if it were someone older she would look a bit tallr in size
eventhough the sword reminds me of Mikoto, it couldnt be her because she's stuck on that orgel thing..
it could be someone of the group who turned dark and evil, if it were a student i would pick a go for .. whats her name again.. i am always forgetting their nams now
that girl who is obsessed with Shizuru and wa teamed up with Nina in the survival test, with greenish hair witch is longr on one side of her head..
and btw the blonde is called Irina right.. or Ernstin.. o.o; omg this is getting worse by the day !
but it could be anyone else, someone who lost someone prescious and there by chose the dark side..
[QUOTE=Matrim]Don't you think that the other nations will probably be very much against an Otome queen? Although in the case of Arika they might be willing to accept her and count on her to ruin the country.:heh:
:p It is true that Mashiro might ruin the country and I don't think the other nations will oppose an otome queen. Maybe they can classified her as a special case because who wouldn't be happy that finally the true queen is back on the throne?
Xellos-_^
2005-12-29, 11:55
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8136/darkotome6yy.th.gif (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkotome6yy.gif)
made a screenie of the dark Otome
Rena is that black/grey haired Otome right..
if that is so, she couldnt be a dark Otome, she has lost her otome powers, so bye bye nano machines for her
That picture doesn't really tell us much. it is just a black shadow againt the moon. For all we experiments were done on Rena and and her appearence have change. As her losing her power, maybe it was restore by whatever was in the data disc.
-KarumA-
2005-12-29, 12:53
That picture doesn't really tell us much. it is just a black shadow againt the moon. For all we experiments were done on Rena and and her appearence have change. As her losing her power, maybe it was restore by whatever was in the data disc.
i wasnt thinking of this in anyway of experiments, maybe it is what they were doing but then it could even be Midori, that they used her to experiment on in the end.. or that they finally figure out how to make their own Otome armor, in the manga Midori has her own armor and she isnt an otome either..
i still have a scan somewhere...
the person i was refering to is coral n.o. 2 Renna.. i think it was.. she could become evil in the end..
but with this new theory about Midori i stand at that.. for now
EDIT :
http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/5079/108kz.th.jpg (http://img331.imageshack.us/my.php?image=108kz.jpg)
then again after seeing this i retreat my new theory about Midori, this person could be someone new..
Midori's armour in the manga does not shape out like the one in the picture, so it has to be someone else..
hm.. but who of the HiME staff have we not yet seen, of the females..
EDIT AGAIN! :
but after rethinking, if you check out Midori's armour, it is way too... echi and nudity like.. specially in the lower area... >.>;
eventhough Otome shows a lot, i do not think they will show that!
so maybe they made a nw midori armour...
Xellos-_^
2005-12-29, 12:57
i wasnt thinking of this in anyway of experiments, maybe it is what they were doing but then it could even be Midori, that they used her to experiment on in the end.. or that they finally figure out how to make their own Otome armor, in the manga Midori has her own armor and she isnt an otome either..
i still have a scan somewhere...
the person i was refering to is coral n.o. 2 Renna.. i think it was.. she could become evil in the end..
but with this new theory about Midori i stand at that.. for now
i was thinking it is Shwartz that did the capture Rena and did the experiments. Aswald doesn't really seem like the type to do so. And for Midori to become a experiment she would have be capture by Schwartz.
-KarumA-
2005-12-29, 13:02
i was thinking it is Shwartz that did the capture Rena and did the experiments. Aswald doesn't really seem like the type to do so. And for Midori to become a experiment she would have be capture by Schwartz.
could be..
i am really not sure about things right now..
i will try and refrain it all.. but as you say about Rena, it is highly possible..
but Schwartz could develop a otome armour and offer Midori to test it out, since she has so much interest in such things.. she made her own gems.. but because of the fact that they dont work well, they want to give her this one.. for a prize..
but i change my theory to yours then...
all hail the queen!
KiraDouji
2005-12-29, 15:35
Umm.. perhaps.. I can't remember. Actually, I remember something along those lines, no, wait.. I though people were speculating how Aswald could have be co-operating with Shwartz for the raid, therefore making the two organisations distinctly seperate even back then.
So, in other words, you don't know? :heh: That's cool, I couldn't remember if it was speculation or not either. :rolleyes:
- Kira
Xellos-_^
2005-12-29, 15:38
could be..
i am really not sure about things right now..
i will try and refrain it all.. but as you say about Rena, it is highly possible..
but Schwartz could develop a otome armour and offer Midori to test it out, since she has so much interest in such things.. she made her own gems.. but because of the fact that they dont work well, they want to give her this one.. for a prize..
but i change my theory to yours then...
all hail the queen!
The more I think about it the more it is probably that is alive and htat she had brain wash. Think about it which is more tragic. Arika fighting Midori or Arika fighting Dark Otome Rena, if Rena is her mother.
True...if you call progress getting from being very spoiled and somewhat stupid to being a bit less spoiled and stupid. I wouldn't go as far as claiming she would make a good queen if it wasn't the opening which shows her as one of the main characters. ;)
It's the same kind of progress I see in Nina, slow early on, rapid in the future (and now in Nina's case). If Mashiro doesn't end up dead by the end, she will end up the queen, just so long as there is still a monarchy at the end, and not some kind of anarchy meets totalitarian government that would likely emerge if either Nagi or Shwartz got their way.
So, in other words, you don't know? :heh: That's cool, I couldn't remember if it was speculation or not either. :rolleyes:
- Kira
Well, truth be told, I don't have any real idea. It could be one, or it could be the other, but it still isn't a very significant difference at the moment. With future developments, who knows?
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2005-12-30, 07:21
but after rethinking, if you check out Midori's armour, it is way too... echi and nudity like.. specially in the lower area... >.>;
eventhough Otome shows a lot, i do not think they will show that!
so maybe they made a nw midori armour...
Don't speak so soon.:D
Have you see authentic sentai series? You know, the REAL power rangers that are not modified by the Americans?
The female Sentai villains always wear such revealing and strange outfits. In fact I was slightly disappointed that MOtome anime Midori's clothing doesn't have random horns sticking out of her shoulder pads, extreme high-heel boots, a whip for a weapon, or an asymmetrical face mask with clown makeup.:p
-KarumA-
2005-12-30, 08:56
Don't speak so soon.:D
Have you see authentic sentai series? You know, the REAL power rangers that are not modified by the Americans?
The female Sentai villains always wear such revealing and strange outfits. In fact I was slightly disappointed that MOtome anime Midori's clothing doesn't have random horns sticking out of her shoulder pads, extreme high-heel boots, a whip for a weapon, or an asymmetrical face mask with clown makeup.:p
never seen them gomen .. lol
ill google it.. first time for tea :heh:
I think Arika is the queen..altough she has not the feeling for it.
Mashiro and Nina are just kids who were found someday and were lucky...
Mashiro is just queen in place of Arika....and I don't see why Nina would be the queen...I think that Nina is the replacement of Sergey's real daughter, Arika.
Or maybe I'm just thinking wrong :)
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2005-12-30, 09:38
never seen them gomen .. lol
ill google it.. first time for tea :heh:
http://www.rangercentral.com/gallery/albums/media/series/57/gin10-4.jpghttp://www.rangercentral.com/gallery/albums/media/series/59/hrk10-9zht.jpghttp://www.rangercentral.com/gallery/albums/media/series/59/hrk11nhy-7.jpg
http://www.rangercentral.com/gallery/albums/media/series/58/gov28-1.jpghttp://www.rangercentral.com/gallery/albums/media/series/58/gov24-8.jpghttp://www.rangercentral.com/gallery/albums/media/series/60/mega50-7.jpg
(my, it was fun looking up these things...:D :p )
And for a stereotypical "sexy outfit"
http://www.rangercentral.com/gallery/albums/media/series/59/hrk20-6kud.jpg
Feel free to hunt down more pictures at this site for more "Midori inspirations".:D
http://www.rangercentral.com/gallery/index-5.html
Mashiro and Nina are just kids who were found someday and were lucky...
I though this had already been disproven? All three have significant roles, since weren't they all inhabitants of the castle at the time of the raid?
I though this had already been disproven? All three have significant roles, since weren't they all inhabitants of the castle at the time of the raid?
Yes it was disproven but we are still actually not so sure if they were all inhabitant of the castle.....mashiro might not even live in a castle from the start but from the normal residence area.....we all knew that the city was attacked and all the citizens ran for their life. Just that mashiro was found and they might mistaken her as the baby princess. Anyway, we haven't get solid prove about this yet. Until further episodes reveal thierbackground only then we can consider where did they once lived.
Anh_Minh
2005-12-30, 13:00
Maybe the princess was a siamese triplet. But Nina, Arika, and Mashiro got separated.
Maybe the princess was a siamese triplet. But Nina, Arika, and Mashiro got separated.
This was also disproven before......:D They can't be twins because they have no similar features and mashiro is younger than nina and arika.
Anh_Minh
2005-12-30, 13:20
Plastic surgery!
And how do we know that Mashiro's younger?
Plastic surgery!
And how do we know that Mashiro's younger?
wait, sorry my mistake..they are the same age.
I am not sure either but all we know now that they are not twins.
BlackWidow
2005-12-30, 14:35
I think Arika is the real princess because :
1) the jewl. Sergay and Nutsuki thinks she is the real princess at the moment they saw the jewl (episode 1).
2) the song she sang (episode 3).
3) Miyu sees her with a golden hair, treats her as princess, and treat Mashiro as trush (episode 8, that you all forgot about).
my thoughts :
she could be the daugther of Rena and the king (maybe the queen couldn't have children).
I thing that if there was more then one princess, Sergay and all the others would have known that and wouldn't focus only on Arika.
I haven't seen any clue supporting the theory that Nina is related...
the guy who brought Mashiro could have done that in order to protect Arika (the real princess)...
what's up with Nagi saying "go find the real princess, since whoever finds her will rule the world" ? (episode 12)
she could be the daugther of Rena and the king (maybe the queen couldn't have children).
But if the king was not married to Rena there is no way Arika would be the princess, she would be just an illegitimate daughter of the king.
Akuma-sama
2005-12-30, 16:10
Ok, first of all, Arika's Jewel, the Souten no Seigyoku, links her not to the queen of Windbloom, but the the queen/king's Otome, Rena.
We have no proof that the 'missing girl' Natsuki and Shizuru are talking about in episode 1 is the princess; they could very well be talking about Rena's missing daughter, and be satisfied with Mashiro as a stand-in. Thus, their surprise would be linked to Finally finding someone who might be Rena's long-lost daughter.
(That is, off my memory; I'm not at home right now so I can't check)
3) Miyu sees her with a golden hair, treats her as princess, and treats Mashiro as trash (episode 8, that you all forgot about).
Corrected you, and while the glowing hair thing ties in to my (lightly farfetched) theory about Arika being a descendant of MH's Alyssa and Miyu being the same from MH, her treating Mashiro like trash doesn't mean much; Miyu respects and protects Arika, and only Arika (for her own reasons, which aren't necessarily connected to Arika being the princess), and thus when Mashiro was less-than-polite with Arika, of course Miyu threatened her.
I still say it's Nina, if only for the Flashback in epsiode 6. WHY would a girl from Altai see Rena (we had photographic proof that it's her before the hacking; the bangs fit perfectly) when she was a baby? Never mind Rena looking distraught.
It could also be Mashiro, in a very red herring kind of way.
Let's remember Sunrise like their red herrings.
what's up with Nagi saying "go find the real princess, since whoever finds her will rule the world" ? (episode 12)
No idea, but willing to bet it's something about the Harmonium.
BlackWidow
2005-12-30, 16:46
I still say it's Nina, if only for the Flashback in epsiode 6.
then how do you explain that Arika have the jewel ?
in episode 2, Natsuki and Shizuru suggesting that Arika is the real princess.
in episode 11, when Sergay look at the dairy he say "the real princess, is it ?".
But if the king was not married to Rena there is no way Arika would be the princess, she would be just an illegitimate daughter of the king.
still, if she is the only child, she is the legal heir...
another possiblity is that Rena is the king and queen only child and Arika is Rena daughter...
Akuma-sama
2005-12-30, 16:49
then how do you explain that Arika have the jewel ?
Easy: Rena ran out with two babies, and left both in different streams; Nina was first since she's the future queen (or was supposed to), and her stream led north to Altai, but somehow the person who was supposed to fetch her failed and she wound up on the streets, and the one we see in episode 1 is Arika, who WAS caught and raised properly.
The point is; Arika has Rena's eyes and face. That's kinda hard to explain if she isn't her daughter :heh:
still, if she is the only child, she is the legal heir...
Any of the king's relatives would be chosen rather than an illegitimate child, at least that's how the RL hereditary monarchies work. And even if we assume there are no living relatives, it's weird that no one had mentioned that Mashiro (who most peopel think is the princess) is supposed to be Rena's daughter or illegitimate, or both. The same goes for her being the king's grandchild.
EnseiSong
2005-12-30, 17:20
I finally voted, because I came up with this:
1. Akira: The child send from the Black Vellagethat that will kill all Otomes
2. Nina: The really queen
3. Mashiro: Rina's child
Tatiana Razajev
2005-12-30, 18:00
I've thought a bit more about it. To be honest I'm sort of hoping it's not something as blatant as Arika turns out to be the sole true heir. It would be nice they tried to surprise us. Maybe make all three the heir. Or heck maybe the heir should be someone besides the three female leads. That would really be twisted. *Tries to imagine Mikoto as the Queen*
Akuma-sama
2005-12-30, 18:34
*Tries to imagine Mikoto as the Queen*
"Welcome to Nyarna, the kingdom formerly known as Windbloom before her Almighty Queen Mikoto's rise to the throne; please keep your hands and feet inside the ride at all times, and be on the lookout for the giant cat statues, they like to swat at the cars and eat them. Please don't be afraid, we haven't lost one costumer all--- er... day. Or at least in the last 6 hours.
"If you look at your left, you will see the endless fields of Tokiha mushrooms. And if you look right, you will ALSO see MORE mushrooms; Queen Mikoto eats well over 15 tons of these mushrooms every day; in the horizon, you can see the few remaining buildings; they will be destroyed next year to make room for more fields.
"Now, if you keep looking, you will see Garderobe, the Otome school; it's the only place in the kingdom where Tokiha mushrooms are strictly forbidden, as the last time they cooked Tokiha soup there, Queen Mikoto tried to enter the school and broke the front gates; their ten meters of diameter were insufficient to allow the queen inside--oh, look, here is one of the statues now, and it's---"
*SCRACK! "Kyaaaah!" CRUNCH! Chomp Chomp Chomp...*
....eh... Queen Mikoto is a scary thought. :heh:
in episode 2, Natsuki and Shizuru suggesting that Arika is the real princess.
in episode 11, when Sergay look at the dairy he say "the real princess, is it ?".
That "the real princess, is it?"-line was very evil of sunrise to put in, because he could be refering to either Nina or Arika... or Mashiro. He could also be talking about Nina in a 'my daughter is a my own little princess-way'. ;)
1. Akira: The child send from the Black Vellagethat that will kill all Otomes
*cough* Yeah, I also had a similar theory about Arika... Seeing how she almost seems to be "created" in a similar way to Alyssa from MH... with the compatabilty to nanomachines and the glowing hair-thing. But I scrapped that thoery because it doesn't make sense with Midori ordering her execution in ep. 10 (or was it 9?)
USCPharmacist
2005-12-30, 21:08
Or that Arika is the reincarnation of the Obsidian Lord himself, I meant what better way to hide yourself ehehheh
Xellos-_^
2005-12-30, 22:21
Or that Arika is the reincarnation of the Obsidian Lord himself, I meant what better way to hide yourself ehehheh
I got another idea, Nina is Rena's daughter, Arika is the missing princes and Mashiro is Fumi's clone. They do share the same va :eyebrow: and Mashiro is what Fumi's gem stone is call.
I got another idea, Nina is Rena's daughter, Arika is the missing princes and Mashiro is Fumi's clone. They do share the same va :eyebrow: and Mashiro is what Fumi's gem stone is call.
? Rena is a Queen...so it is obvious arika should be rena's daughter not nina.
However, nina might be blood related cuz speculation says that she was also one of the inhabitant of the castle 14 years ago.
Xellos-_^
2005-12-30, 22:43
? Rena is a Queen...so it is obvious arika should be rena's daughter not nina.
However, nina might be blood related cuz speculation says that she was also one of the inhabitant of the castle 14 years ago.
Where did you get Rena is a Queen?
The only things confirm about Rena is:
1. She was the Otome
2. She retire, had a child and lost her powers.
it has never been confirm that Rena was royalty of any type. Lots of speculation but no real hard facts.
Where did you get Rena is a Queen?
The only things confirm about Rena is:
1. She was the Otome
2. She retire, had a child and lost her powers.
it has never been confirm that Rena was royalty of any type. Lots of speculation but no real hard facts.
I am aware of that as speculation but why did natsuki and sergay have doubts on mashiro as the true queen after seeing arika's blue gems?
Xellos-_^
2005-12-30, 22:49
I am aware of that as speculation but why did natsuki and sergay have doubts on mashiro as the true queen after seeing arika's blue gems?
They always had doubts. Rumors of Mashiro not being the true Princess didn't start when Arika arrive, it start almost as soon as Mashiro was pronouce as the princess as the only evidence being the Minster's saying so and the Kidnappers confession all highly suspect. Especially since the kidnapper died very soon after his confession.
They always had doubts. Rumors of Mashiro not being the true Princess didn't start when Arika arrive, it start almost as soon as Mashiro was pronouce as the princess as the only evidence being the Minster's saying so and the Kidnappers confession all highly suspect. Especially since the kidnapper died very soon after his confession.
But the doubt became much more serious when they saw arika's gem.
So they might know something about her background.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2005-12-31, 00:44
If Rena was royalty, it would not be a secret. After all, she got her own portrait in the palace. If she was royalty we would hear about it by now.
Tatiana Razajev
2005-12-31, 02:16
Here would be an interesting twist. What if in fact there is no true heir? In other words say the King and Queen couldn't have any children. However Rena herself has a child and they decide to pretend the child is the heir. I know it's a bit far fetched, but it would be an interesting twist.
If Rena was royalty, it would not be a secret. After all, she got her own portrait in the palace. If she was royalty we would hear about it by now.
Agreed. I think its safe to assume that Rena is not and was not queen.
If Rena was royalty, it would not be a secret. After all, she got her own portrait in the palace. If she was royalty we would hear about it by now.
Plus, if she is royalty and borne the king's child wouldn't it be some sort of......
incest?
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2005-12-31, 04:51
Plus, if she is royalty and borne the king's child wouldn't it be some sort of......
incest?
Nah... That's traditional. Old style royalty always have a little inbreeding back in the day. Not strange at all. As long as they are not closer than 1st cousins, it's all good.
(Though that's how many royal families ended up dying out back then too; the inbreeding killed their gene pool.)
But the doubt became much more serious when they saw arika's gem.
So they might know something about her background.
I don't remember anything implying their doubts rose when they saw the GEM... though I could be wrong, haven't got the eps here to recheck. I do remember both of them being very surprised though, and Sergei obviously drew the conclusion that Arika was Rena's daughter. But both Sergei and Natsuki (I guess... "We still haven't found her." just might refer to Mai and not the missing princess...) has been searching for the missing princess for like 14 years, so if they thought Arika was the princess, why didn't they... do something?
I would take a wild guess and say that Arika is the Real Queen (and the one Rena sends down the river), and Mashiro is of noble blood but not direct royalty.
And Nina is Rena's child, largely because of the three, she's the one who looks the most likely candidate.
I'd say that it's hard to tell whether any of the three really have their birthday on September 7th. For all we know, Arika's "grandmother" gave her that date for the same reason Sergey gave it to Nina. And Mashiro's birthday has to be stated as that date, because a royal birth should be in the records and such.
kari-no-sugata
2005-12-31, 09:30
Sergay definitely thinks Arika is Rena's daughter. Sergay is also looking for the true princess on Nagi's orders. Shizuru and Natsuki seem to think that Arika's Rena's daughter as well. Yet, none seem to act like being Rena's daughter makes Arika anyone special. So, either they know Rena's daughter is NOT the true princess or they DON'T KNOW that "Rena's daughter" = "the true princess". However, if they don't know, it would be rather odd - after all, how would they find the real princess then?
Putting it another way, either there had to be TWO baby girls in the palace - Rena's daughter and the true princess, or a massive conspiracy going on to distort the truth.
Side note - there are few hard facts in this series, so my above analysis is based on what SEEMS to be the truth. Not really possible to prove any of it.
kari-no-sugata
2005-12-31, 10:08
With regards to who Nina really is...
Well, it would be most ironic if she's the real princess, since her adopted father is searching for her...
Anyway, we certainly don't know who Nina's real parents are (though doesn't necessarily have to be anyone special). We do see Nina have a flashback to a Rena-ish person, yet that would be very unlikely to be when Nina was a baby - most people don't have any memories they can recall until they're several years old AFAIK. So it's possible that Rena came across Nina when Nina was very young, and saved her, and then Nina met Sergay a few years later, or something.
Arika also seems to think her mother is alive.
It's not impossible that Nina is the real princess, and Rena escaped with her from the castle, and they traveled together for several years, which is how Nina has the flashback. Then something happened and they were separated. However, if that did happen, why didn't Rena go back to Wind Bloom (or Guarderobe?). So I think that'd be quite unlikely...
kari-no-sugata
2005-12-31, 10:12
With regards to who Mashiro really is...
If there was a conspiracy to switch Mashiro with the real princess, why doesn't there seem to be some faction trying to control Mashiro? So either it's a very small conspiracy which has now died out (making it impossible to confirm) or Mashiro had something implanted into her so she could be controlled later or there was no conspiracy or the head guy decided to create a fake princess on the spur of the moment to save the kingdom.
kari-no-sugata
2005-12-31, 10:47
Thinking about this question from a whole different angle would be: whoever is the true princess, how can this be confirmed?
Is there any scientific way? Well, DNA analysis would be a great start, yet surely that'd have been done already if there was any doubt? So that implies DNA analysis is no longer possible. Another possibility is written records - eg a diary. But with all the confusion going on, how reliable would that be?
Otherwise, it boils down to someone being able to confirm things verbaly, one way or another. I doubt any of the regular characters would know. Rena's quite possibly still alive - it's be quite likely she could confirm things. Miyu is another possibility, though I'd be a bit surprised if she knew all the details.
A couple of interesting things to consider: why is Arika's birthday the same as Mashiro's (the official true princess / queen)? Was she simply born on the same day? If so, how would her grandmother know? (I doubt Arika's grandmother chose the date randomly, as in Nina's case. After all, Arika would likely only been a few months old at the start of ep 1) Also, how would Arika's grandmother know that Rena is still alive? (I assume that's who told Arika) Or similarly, how did Arika's grandmother know that Arika's mother was an Otome? So it seems quite possible that Rena didn't simply abandon Arika and hope for the best, but she knew / made sure where Arika would end up (ie with someone she knows). Maybe Rena sent Arika to Miyu first? However, if this was the case, why hasn't Rena come to see Arika? (Rather cruel...) I don't see why Rena couldn't have simply gone to where she knew Arika would be - unless she had something more urgent to do. One possibility is finding the true princess (in which case Nina suddenly seems a good candidate).
Hmm...
For all we know, Arika's "grandmother" gave her that date for the same reason Sergey gave it to Nina. And Mashiro's birthday has to be stated as that date, because a royal birth should be in the records and such.
Agreed, couldn't have put it better myself.
Thinking about this question from a whole different angle would be: whoever is the true princess, how can this be confirmed?
Is there any scientific way? Well, DNA analysis would be a great start, yet surely that'd have been done already if there was any doubt? So that implies DNA analysis is no longer possible. Another possibility is written records - eg a diary. But with all the confusion going on, how reliable would that be?
Otherwise, it boils down to someone being able to confirm things verbaly, one way or another. I doubt any of the regular characters would know. Rena's quite possibly still alive - it's be quite likely she could confirm things. Miyu is another possibility, though I'd be a bit surprised if she knew all the details.
A couple of interesting things to consider: why is Arika's birthday the same as Mashiro's (the official true princess / queen)? Was she simply born on the same day? If so, how would her grandmother know? (I doubt Arika's grandmother chose the date randomly, as in Nina's case. After all, Arika would likely only been a few months old at the start of ep 1) Also, how would Arika's grandmother know that Rena is still alive? (I assume that's who told Arika) Or similarly, how did Arika's grandmother know that Arika's mother was an Otome? So it seems quite possible that Rena didn't simply abandon Arika and hope for the best, but she knew / made sure where Arika would end up (ie with someone she knows). Maybe Rena sent Arika to Miyu first? However, if this was the case, why hasn't Rena come to see Arika? (Rather cruel...) I don't see why Rena couldn't have simply gone to where she knew Arika would be - unless she had something more urgent to do. One possibility is finding the true princess (in which case Nina suddenly seems a good candidate).
Hmm...
Why? Why do you doubt it? There is no proof either way, so it cannot be doubted. After all, as dkellis so wonderfully put, Arika's 'grandmother' could well have given her that date as a birthday for the same reason Sergei chose Sept. 7th for Nina. A lot of your post is based on assumptions.
kari-no-sugata
2005-12-31, 15:02
Why? Why do you doubt it? There is no proof either way, so it cannot be doubted. After all, as dkellis so wonderfully put, Arika's 'grandmother' could well have given her that date as a birthday for the same reason Sergei chose Sept. 7th for Nina. A lot of your post is based on assumptions.
Read the rest of the line: After all, Arika would likely only been a few months old at the start of ep 1.
It is very unlikely that Arika met her "grandmother" a long time after we see at the start of ep 1. Most likely a few days or maybe a week or so after that point.
The attack would have happened soon after Rena officially retired. ie soon after Arika was born. So while Nina met Sergay when she was about 9, Arika wouldn't have even been 1 when she met her grandmother.
Mashiro was definitely a baby when found by that minister - ie very nearly the same age as Arika.
So for Arika's birthday to have been chosen based on when she first granny, that meeting would have had to have happened on Arika's first birthday (roughly). Which is unlikely.
There's already some clues that Arika's grandmother knew about Rena. So it's quite possible she could know Arika's true birthday.
Read the rest of the line: After all, Arika would likely only been a few months old at the start of ep 1.
It is very unlikely that Arika met her "grandmother" a long time after we see at the start of ep 1. Most likely a few days or maybe a week or so after that point.
The attack would have happened soon after Rena officially retired. ie soon after Arika was born. So while Nina met Sergay when she was about 9, Arika wouldn't have even been 1 when she met her grandmother.
Mashiro was definitely a baby when found by that minister - ie very nearly the same age as Arika.
So for Arika's birthday to have been chosen based on when she first granny, that meeting would have had to have happened on Arika's first birthday (roughly). Which is unlikely.
There's already some clues that Arika's grandmother knew about Rena. So it's quite possible she could know Arika's true birthday.
But.. um.. the year doesn't matter at all. Arika could have met her 'grandmother' on September 12th XXX0 and Nina met Sergei on September 12th XXX9. Again I say, there is no way to tell for sure than any of the 3 actually have that day as their birthday.
kari-no-sugata
2005-12-31, 16:18
But.. um.. the year doesn't matter at all. Arika could have met her 'grandmother' on September 12th XXX0 and Nina met Sergei on September 12th XXX9. Again I say, there is no way to tell for sure than any of the 3 actually have that day as their birthday.
The year DOES matter. Arika and Mashiro's apparant age at the time of the attack on Fuuka castle is pretty much the same. Certainly Nina's true birthday could be completely different.
Like I explained before, Arika should have first met her grandmother shortly after the events at the start of ep 1 - shortly after Arika was born.
Mashiro's official birthday is 12th September. Arika's one should be close (maybe even the same). The attack happened just after Rena officialy retired - ie shortly after Arika was born. So maybe in October. So it'd be 11 months before 12th September comes up agian. Explain what Arika was doing during that gap.
The year DOES matter. Arika and Mashiro's apparant age at the time of the attack on Fuuka castle is pretty much the same. Certainly Nina's true birthday could be completely different.
Like I explained before, Arika should have first met her grandmother shortly after the events at the start of ep 1 - shortly after Arika was born.
Mashiro's official birthday is 12th September. Arika's one should be close (maybe even the same). The attack happened just after Rena officialy retired - ie shortly after Arika was born. So maybe in October. So it'd be 11 months before 12th September comes up agian. Explain what Arika was doing during that gap.
I think I have got a wall here, since I cannot even begin to understand where you are comming from. I think I'll leave it up to someone else to argue a bit deeper.
Not a single one of the birthdays are correct for definite. Not a single one. All could have been made up. The year does not matter, because even if you were born one year on a certain day, and someone else was born six years later on the same day of the year, you would share a birthday. Therefore, even though Arika, Nina and Mashiro are all of equal age, apparently, the year does not matter in the least.
Sergei, apparently, chose Nina's birthday because it was the day he first met her.
Arika's 'grandmother' could have chosen that day also because she first met Arika then. There is no more indication that Sept. 12th is Arika's birthday than either Nina or Mashiro. Her past is a similar mystery. Her 'grandmother' may not even be a genetic relative.
Mashiro, as the found princess, would automatically have to have the same birthday as the princess to make her discovery even a little plausible. If she is not the real princess, which is quite possible, then there is only 1 chance out of 365 that that is also her real birthday.
Unlike in Nina's chase where Sergei could still hide ulterior motives for selecting that day, and there even is a chance that it is actually her real birthday, because, even though it is in reality a 1/365 chance, this is a story, a more than slightly unrealistic story where co-incidence rules supreme, Arika's and Mashiro's birthday have no direct indications of any secrets hidden beneath their birthdays. However, when you actually think about it logically and clearly, you realise they also might have had the day pulled out of a hat.
kari-no-sugata
2005-12-31, 17:37
I think I have got a wall here, since I cannot even begin to understand where you are comming from. I think I'll leave it up to someone else to argue a bit deeper.
I'm not the one who keeps on bringing up Nina, when I was only talking about Arika's birthday (and how it relates to Mashiro's). I'm not the one who keeps insisting that Nina's situation at age 9 years or so is directly comparable to Arika's situation just after she was born. It's easier to tell someones true age just after they've been born (though not exactly of course).
Not a single one of the birthdays are correct for definite. Not a single one.
Where did I say otherwise? Where?
On the other hand, the story is certainly playing up the fact about shared official birthdays.
All could have been made up. The year does not matter, because even if you were born one year on a certain day, and someone else was born six years later on the same day of the year, you would share a birthday. Therefore, even though Arika, Nina and Mashiro are all of equal age, apparently, the year does not matter in the least.
In Arika and Mashiro's case it does matter, currently. Their apparant date-of-birth should be very similar since on "that day" ~15 years ago they look the same age. I doubt the artists would make them look similar ages when they're not.
I'm not the one who keeps on bringing up Nina, when I was only talking about Arika's birthday (and how it relates to Mashiro's). I'm not the one who keeps insisting that Nina's situation at age 9 years or so is directly comparable to Arika's situation just after she was born. It's easier to tell someones true age just after they've been born (though not exactly of course).
Where did I say otherwise? Where?
On the other hand, the story is certainly playing up the fact about shared official birthdays.
In Arika and Mashiro's case it does matter, currently. Their apparant date-of-birth should be very similar since on "that day" ~15 years ago they look the same age. I doubt the artists would make them look similar ages when they're not.
Aaaarrg. Ok. Deep breath. Phew. Lets start over.
First, this thread is a poll for who you think is the real queen, correct? Nina is as much an option in the poll as Arika, correct? All three, Arika, Nina and Mashiro are candidates for being the true queen, correct? And all of them are as likely as the rest to be the true queen with what we know now, correct? So perhaps you see why I brought up Nina in that post, only briefly as you can see? Ok, next thing.
All the girls are the same age, making year irrelevant. The date is what matters. The date we have is September 12th. All three girl's 'offical' birthdays are September 12th. However, there is no proof showing that any of the three were actually born on September 12th of any year.
You know, looks are very misleading when you want to know a person's age. Especially in media. Especially in anime. I'm sorry, you are trying to tell how old they are by looking at them as a baby in an anime series? ..That isn't very reliable evidence at all..
Then again, I repeat, all the girls are the same age, for some reason, we know this, right?
We can't judge look from anime???
Hey, you are not entirely correct. I am just 20 and people thought I was 36 years old. 9 out of 10 people said that. Maybe I do look old after all. It implies to both reality and anime my friend.
:)
shinigami1101
2006-01-02, 16:46
okay, my theory is all three of them (arika, mashiro, and nina) are all the former king's children. but all three of them were adopted by him. he had fallen in love with his otome, but couldnt have children with her, so they adopted three children from various places. and for continuity's sake, they adopted them all on September 7th, and that is why all three of them have the same "birthday"
We can't judge look from anime???
Hey, you are not entirely correct. I am just 20 and people thought I was 36 years old. 9 out of 10 people said that. Maybe I do look old after all. It implies to both reality and anime my friend.
:)
No.. it doesn't apply to anime.. Why do you think there is so much debate over Natsuki's age? And you just disproved your own point.. um.. your example prooves that one cannot tell another's age accurately by looking at them, even in reality. Anime is quite a different matter, due to the fact that it is drawn, and writers can draw someone however the way they want, and then pull an age out of a hat to support their plot.
I'm wondering. Why is everybody saying Arika, Nina and Mashiro's birthday is September 12th? I just rewatched episode 11 and their birthday is September 7th, so I am quite dumbfounded.
PastPrime
2006-01-02, 18:07
okay, my theory is all three of them (arika, mashiro, and nina) are all the former king's children. but all three of them were adopted by him. he had fallen in love with his otome, but couldnt have children with her, so they adopted three children from various places. and for continuity's sake, they adopted them all on September 7th, and that is why all three of them have the same "birthday"
Given that if you dyed Arika's hair black she would look exactly like Rena, I think that it is very probable that she is Rena's daughter, and I don't the King was the father.
mishangelle
2006-01-03, 04:15
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6467/b343rv.th.jpg (http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b343rv.jpg)
Amateurish photoshop on my part.
I'm wondering. Why is everybody saying Arika, Nina and Mashiro's birthday is September 12th? I just rewatched episode 11 and their birthday is September 7th, so I am quite dumbfounded.
It's all about tunnelvision. We all fall into that category. None have 360 vision, which is why these forums are here - to enlighten us with other points of view.
Inference is a great tool to draw upon for conclusions - as long as we realize that those conclusions are not always correct. Why? Inference is not based on facts; it is based on the interpretation of the facts we have available to draw our conclusion upon.
Thirty seconds into the first episode we see the king trying to protect the Queen - both dead upon the floor with an Aswald looking at their bodies. The irony here is that their supposed baby is not among them. There is no evidence of a child, nor is there one mentioned. Instead the search is for the Otome.
Rena, the Otome, is seen carrying a baby to the creek. The blue saphire crystals are no longer in Rena's ear. The pendant is around the baby's neck with the two stones encased.
Flashback: In episode 3, Sergey sees Rena hold the child. The child is playing with the pendant that already has the stones within. Already Rena lost her otome status. Naturally, the Queen, Rena's old friend (?), stands beside her. In the same episode, Nina is reminded of photos of Sergey and Nina together.
In the support letter to Natsuki, Sergey admits of knowing Arika's mother. He also knows of her birthday without Arika or any of her friends telling him. In fact, the calendar has an ant drawn in on Sept 7.
Arika knows that she is the daughter of an otome. It is what her 'grandmother' tells her. Since the grandmother is depicted as one of sound mind and judgment, there is not reason for this to be a lie. In addition, the fact that Arika could reach out and grasp the pendant to play with it, ensures that she is not a new born. There is no way that any close individuals to Arika would not know of her birthday. It's a big thing for an otome to loose her abilities. For the same reason, the castle was most likely attacked because Rena no longer could protect it. As per episode 1, this was no news to the Aswald. And I would certainly think that this was no news to the 'grandmother.' I would also think that a contingency plan was in effect in case something would happen to her or her king and queen.
So who is Arika? The queen? Possible, but only if the king is her father and Rena was a surrogate mother of some kind. But this is speculation. No fact dictates an inference that points towards Arika being a princess. It is more likely that Mashiro or Nina is. Yes, Mashiro because SUNRISE keeps trying to make us think that she's not. So, just because of that, Mashiro may actually be the actual queen. On the other hand, Nina grew up in an orphonage. Which means she has no known parents. Yet there is still a connection to the palace, for when Surgey picked her six years ago, Mashiro's good old maid was there as well standing by the door.
It's all about tunnelvision. We all fall into that category. None have 360 vision, which is why these forums are here - to enlighten us with other points of view.
Inference is a great tool to draw upon for conclusions - as long as we realize that those conclusions are not always correct. Why? Inference is not based on facts; it is based on the interpretation of the facts we have available to draw our conclusion upon.
Thirty seconds into the first episode we see the king trying to protect the Queen - both dead upon the floor with an Aswald looking at their bodies. The irony here is that their supposed baby is not among them. There is no evidence of a child, nor is there one mentioned. Instead the search is for the Otome.
Rena, the Otome, is seen carrying a baby to the creek. The blue saphire crystals are no longer in Rena's ear. The pendant is around the baby's neck with the two stones encased.
Flashback: In episode 3, Sergey sees Rena hold the child. The child is playing with the pendant that already has the stones within. Already Rena lost her otome status. Naturally, the Queen, Rena's old friend (?), stands beside her. In the same episode, Nina is reminded of photos of Sergey and Nina together.
In the support letter to Natsuki, Sergey admits of knowing Arika's mother. He also knows of her birthday without Arika or any of her friends telling him. In fact, the calendar has an ant drawn in on Sept 7.
Arika knows that she is the daughter of an otome. It is what her 'grandmother' tells her. Since the grandmother is depicted as one of sound mind and judgment, there is not reason for this to be a lie. In addition, the fact that Arika could reach out and grasp the pendant to play with it, ensures that she is not a new born. There is no way that any close individuals to Arika would not know of her birthday. It's a big thing for an otome to loose her abilities. For the same reason, the castle was most likely attacked because Rena no longer could protect it. As per episode 1, this was no news to the Aswald. And I would certainly think that this was no news to the 'grandmother.' I would also think that a contingency plan was in effect in case something would happen to her or her king and queen.
So who is Arika? The queen? Possible, but only if the king is her father and Rena was a surrogate mother of some kind. But this is speculation. No fact dictates an inference that points towards Arika being a princess. It is more likely that Mashiro or Nina is. Yes, Mashiro because SUNRISE keeps trying to make us think that she's not. So, just because of that, Mashiro may actually be the actual queen. On the other hand, Nina grew up in an orphonage. Which means she has no known parents. Yet there is still a connection to the palace, for when Surgey picked her six years ago, Mashiro's good old maid was there as well standing by the door.
Amen. We have two positions: 'Real princess' and 'Rena's daughter'. Either Arika, Nina or Mashiro could fill one of those positions. Some are more feasible ideas than others, and some just seem likely. However, sometimes, in story telling, the least likely option is used. Keep the reader/viewer/listener on their toes as it were.
Given that if you dyed Arika's hair black she would look exactly like Rena, I think that it is very probable that she is Rena's daughter, and I don't the King was the father.
This is possible, since red hair is a funny gene. Close to what geneticists would call a recessive mode of inheritance. This means, that even if both parents did not have red hair themselves, they could still carry the 'red hair gene' and give birth to a son or daughter with red hair even though they did not have it themselves. This makes the fact that Arika is Rena's daughter very possible.
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6467/b343rv.th.jpg (http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b343rv.jpg)
Amateurish photoshop on my part.
Hehe.. that makes me think of Lafiel from Crest of the Stars. I think its the fact that she was forced to dye her hair black and had an expression quite like that on her face..
KiraDouji
2006-01-03, 21:17
There's still the point that Arika could be princess if Rena was the king's daughter. There is a significant enough age difference between the two for that to work, and we know noble daughters attend Gaurderobe. Just a thought.
- Kira
MattAlchemy
2006-01-03, 22:35
I'm considering it can be Mai. I don't know, but maybe is because Takumi became prince of the other town. Oh but wait... Takumi and Mai can't be in live if they're prince and princess. I don't really know yet. It could be Nina. Since some rumors already spread that Mashiro is a fake princess and that Arika can't. Since she's main character and cannot give up her Otome skills. One thing left is Nina.
PastPrime
2006-01-04, 01:39
There's still the point that Arika could be princess if Rena was the king's daughter. There is a significant enough age difference between the two for that to work, and we know noble daughters attend Gaurderobe. Just a thought.
- Kira
I think that Rad would have used "Princess" when he spoke to her in the beginning if she were the kings daughter. I do, however, think that it is quite possible that Rena was Sergey's stepmother, which would make Arika his little sister. Sergey's father could easily be only 5 or 6 years older than Rena, which isn't an unusual differential for a marriage. If he held the position that Sergey holds now, then it would have been no problem getting to know her. If that is the case, then it is likely that he was killed during the raid.
in my opinion........
i think
arika is the daughter of RENA.....(could be a princess if RENA was a princess/otome herself).........since king/queen and next in line princess RENA = dead? arika = heir?
mashiro ..... royalty....substitute for heir since real heir missing?
nina.........unknown
BUT as the show progresses.........MASHIRO will remain the QUEEN and ARIKA as her otome....possibly be the most "powerful' one (need no brains to guess this)
Nina's role would seem less obvious but i suspect it might be related to the harmonium............remember when arika and mashiro first visited it ......the shadow told them they needed 3 thingies (i forgot lol)............i strongly place my bet it gotta be MASHIRO/NINA/ARIKA to be able to activate the harmonium
......the shadow told them they needed 3 thingies (i forgot lol)............i strongly place my bet it gotta be MASHIRO/NINA/ARIKA to be able to activate the harmonium
I belive they were : a protector (Arika), someone to play the damn thing(Nina) and a singer (Mashiro- since she can't really do mauch else)
in my opinion........
i think
arika is the daughter of RENA.....(could be a princess if RENA was a princess/otome herself).........since king/queen and next in line princess RENA = dead? arika = heir?
mashiro ..... royalty....substitute for heir since real heir missing?
nina.........unknown
BUT as the show progresses.........MASHIRO will remain the QUEEN and ARIKA as her otome....possibly be the most "powerful' one (need no brains to guess this)
Nina's role would seem less obvious but i suspect it might be related to the harmonium............remember when arika and mashiro first visited it ......the shadow told them they needed 3 thingies (i forgot lol)............i strongly place my bet it gotta be MASHIRO/NINA/ARIKA to be able to activate the harmonium
I thought about the twist in plot a long time ago where Arika finds out that she's the real queen... but she's Mashiro's otome. And rather than change anything, they remain as they are and continue the illusion... It'd be a fun twist http://forums.animesuki.com/images/smilies/heh.gif
The three required as per harmonium, as per Static-Subs, is: "gather a song, a conductor, and a protector." Another translation states that in order to gather the harmonium's power, combine the "singer's melody, the organ's player, and the protector's charm." You'll find more on this in the ep 7 discussion thread.
KiraDouji
2006-01-04, 22:07
I think that Rad would have used "Princess" when he spoke to her in the beginning if she were the kings daughter.
Why? He's not interested in royalty, he's interested in Otome...?
- Kira
PastPrime
2006-01-05, 09:17
Why? He's not interested in royalty, he's interested in Otome...?
- Kira
Because, like DV at the beginning of Star wars, I would expect him to use it in a sarcastic manner just like he used her lost Otome powers. Besides, if she was a princess, why is it that no one else refers to that fact either. If her daughter was in line for the throne then she would be ahead of her in line, Like Prince Charles and his eldest son. From all that we have heard, the princess that they were searching for was a baby. And why would Mashiro think of the King and Queen as her parents if the parents of the Princess was someone else. There would be no need to make her think the King and Queen were her parents if they weren't the Parents of the Princess that they were searching for. I suppose that the King could have had a younger brother who married Rena. That would make Arika a princess, while Rena would not be after her husband was killed, but the Kings daughter would still be first in line of succession.
btw where can i find the information that RENA was a princess
maybe i haven been paying close enough attention but i can't seem to find anything that says she's a princess
lone_wolf
2006-01-05, 23:14
btw where can i find the information that RENA was a princess
maybe i haven been paying close enough attention but i can't seem to find anything that says she's a princess
It's just speculation right now.
--Lone Wolf
On the other hand, Nina grew up in an orphonage. Which means she has no known parents. Yet there is still a connection to the palace, for when Surgey picked her six years ago, Mashiro's good old maid was there as well standing by the door.
When was this? This particular part intrigues me.
As for my own opinion... all that I can stick with thus far is that Arika is Rena's daughter. Their looks are just too similar for me to object that theory.
When was this? This particular part intrigues me.
As for my own opinion... all that I can stick with thus far is that Arika is Rena's daughter. Their looks are just too similar for me to object that theory.
There is a very high chance that Arika is Rena's daughter.
Ok, from viewing the episodes/threads on this forum, this is the sequence of events that involve them:
King and Queen of Windbloom died, Rena rescues a baby, leaves a pendent that people here says belong to royalty (with her otome gems inside) with the baby, and "gets killed" by a cyborg (presuming she did).
Ok, heres the thing that seems weird with this:
If Arika is that baby, AND the baby is suppose to be the prince, that would contradict with Arika's grandmother's words: that Arika's mother is a Otome.
there was a theory that went like:
Perhaps Rena is royalty, so that makes her daughter a princess
But then, it was stated in the anime that the princess is the daughter of the King and Queen, but Rena is NOT the Queen.
So, by following the simplest logic in the anime, we presume the baby in the capsule is Arika, since she has the very same pendent with otome gems in it.
But if by the same simple logic, that Rena is her mother (since we cant really find another motherly otome mentioned so far in the anime), that means that Arika' isn't the princess, right?
Unless....Arika's grandmother made a mistake thinking that Rena is Arika's mother, or the King had a extra-marital affair with Rena, which seems highly impossible....since that means that that isn't really the "daughter of the king and queen."
Unless the queen somehow accepts the baby as a princess?
PS: Im not quite sure if the daughter part was mentioned, so I might be wrong.
Discuss.
EDIT: just realised that there wasnt much of a main question...
I voted for Arika.
The "Rena as the baby's mother" hypothesis, I have doubts about. Arika believes that her Souten no Seigyoku used to belong to her mother, but I think that (1) her "grandmother" told her this and (2) it was found with her? If no note was found with baby Arika, wouldn't it be common for the person to believe that everything discovered in the bundle would be left by the baby's parents?
Is Rena also the otome mentioned whose retirement "helped" the attack? And isn't it a man's sperm that deactivates an otome's nanomachines, which would lead to her having to retire? If both are yes, then Rena giving birth would mean that she had actually retired (at least) 9 months - for gestation - prior to the battle.
Or has there been a clue that Rena survived the night somehow, retrieved the Souten no Seigyoku, and gave it to Arika? :confused:
If we're going for Rena and Arika's relationship - and assuming that Arika is the baby princess - I vote for Rena being either Arika's sister (a 15+ years age difference isn't all that unheard of) or her aunt. Aside from the lullaby singing in episode 1 Rena was doing - which could just be normal (babies can be lovable... when they're not spitting up or worse on you :p ) and their likeness to one another, I just find it odd that someone, during an attack on the royal family, would be able to fight/sneak her way into the palace through the attackers and the confused guards, and get the baby that quickly.
If Rena had gone to the king and queen first and then saved the baby (and when did she find the time to get the Souten no Seigyoku as well then?), then she's damned good even without her robe, IMHO.
Had Rena lived inside the palace during the attack, then that's rather odd also. An ex-otome who retired? Wouldn't she be with... I don't know, her boyfriend or (more likely, given that she was a royal otome) fiance/husband instead?
Proof? None, of course. :)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26904
Perhaps this would be better discussed in the above thread instead since a lot of people had put time and effort in this question? :)
time to edit this post...
Ok, from my post above, I would like to say: my theory is that
1) Arika is Rena's daughter, but definately not the "true queen" (and the fact that Sergey seems to relate to that, on how he knows her mother - and I doubt thats the queen. Plus the fact that Sergey probably knows more about Rena than we audience, Its safe to assume that Arika IS Rena's daughter. And no, the queen isnt an otome since it would had been mentioned. Nor was it mentioned that Rena is part of royalty.)
2) Either Nina or Mashiro is the queen (though my bias-ness is pointing towards Mashiro). Though if Mashiro is the real queen, that would make Ninas existance....abit blend and pointless in the "same birthday thing".
To those who ask why would Rena remain in the castle even after she retires, I think it might be possible to assume that she was a well respected otome (hence was invited to stay in the castle?), or that the man she married is royalty? More like noble blood, I mean.
PastPrime
2006-01-10, 11:50
time to edit this post...
To those who ask why would Rena remain in the castle even after she retires, I think it might be possible to assume that she was a well respected otome (hence was invited to stay in the castle?), or that the man she married is royalty? More like noble blood, I mean.
Actually, it is possible that she was just visiting the castle when the attack took place. We don't have much real information to go on, so there are many, contradictory, possibilities at this point.
yea, too many possibilities that contradict each other...but I really cant see the possibility of Nina beng Rena's daughter. Perhaps that "memory" she saw was of Rena placing her at some safe location (and thats also presuming Nina is the real princess).
My personal ratio of Arika being the daughter of Rena (an otome. no less) to Nina being the daughter, is about 10:1. And this is based on current known information.
Same/similar hair color, same eyes color, same otome gem, Sergey's thoughts that Arika is the daughter (assuming again, but more probable than him having the thought of Arika being the queen's daughter)....and what does Nina have as to her relation to Rena? The name? (Rena and Nina) and that flash back....nothing else.
KiraDouji
2006-01-11, 13:27
I just want to point out that Rena being a princess doesn't necessarily give her the throne, or, if Arika is Rena's daughter, doesn't give Arika access to it either. It's possible that when her younger sister was born (following this theory) that Rena renounced her claim to the throne, and then later became pregnant. Just pointing out that it's possible.... it's also possible that no one has mentioned it because Sunrise just doesn't want us to know yet :P
- Kira
ZODDGUTS
2006-01-11, 14:13
Rena lost her powers as Rad said in episode 1, why else would their attack be so successful on Windbloom's castle. Only way an Otome can lose her powers is if she had sex. Arika would indeed be her child. With Arika being Rena's daughter and Mashiro being a replacement all that leaves is Nina. This is from the information given so far. The flashback of Nina seeing Rena might be Rena placing Nina out of harm's way. She might've done that before saving Arika.
I have been thinking that too that flashback that person looked liked Rena putting her in something. Maybe as you said she put Nina in a safe placed first then later with another baby that she was holding with was her own baby Arika.
EnseiSong
2006-01-11, 14:28
I have been thinking that too that flashback that person looked liked Rena putting her in something. Maybe as you said she put Nina in a safe placed first then later with another baby that she was holding with was her own baby Arika.
That's what I think too!
In the perview for ep 15 or 16 I don't know what. But it seems that the person have the Blue Jewel of Heave is the real queen. So it doesn't matter if Arika is the "real" queen or not (like maybe she REALLY is Rena's child or something). She have to be the Queen....
Sorry for reposting it, if someone have already posted this before.
That's what I think too!
In the perview for ep 15 or 16 I don't know what. But it seems that the person have the Blue Jewel of Heave is the real queen. So it doesn't matter if Arika is the "real" queen or not (like maybe she REALLY is Rena's child or something). She have to be the Queen....
Sorry for reposting it, if someone have already posted this before.
I don't know whether its my mood suffering from spending all my free time for the last 4 days trying to get my PC working, but this series has recently taken an almighty hit in my liking. I hate even the mention of a relationship between Arika and Sergei, and even when it may be considered a first crush.. it just shoudln't have even have been brought up. I'm intrigued as to what Surnise thought they were achieving exactly by doing this..
Anyway, it looked from what we saw that Rena didn't have much time at all to go about depositing babies into rivers, since she was pursued by what looked like a large paramilitary, now you suggest that there were multiple instances of placing a baby into a capsule and sending them down a river? She was only carrying one on her, so unless someone else put it in the water, or gave it to her, she would have to make two trips to the castly, which no sane person would have done with those odds. If Arika is not that baby, I don't think it was Rena that put her in the river, if indeed Arika actually travelled that way.
Hmm, I guess what you say is possible, but would be illogical and dangerous from Rena's point of view, therefore improbable. I think she only put one baby into a capsule, unless of course this didn't happen at the same point in time. Indeed, Rena could have placed one baby in the river on a completely different day to the one she placed in the river after the attack on the castle. After all, elipsis was used, we do not know how much time passed between the raid on the castle and the one scene we see of her placing an unidentified baby into the river. There is nothing to suggest other events did not occur inside this time span, not limeted to other similar scenes.
Perhaps we are limiting ourselves here, maybe that baby was not even Arika, Nina nor Mashiro, what purpose this might serve in the prosess of story telling I have no idea, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen. This is Sunrise here..
EDIT: Ah yes.. the words between Smith and Nagi towards the end of 13.. that both interested me, and worried me for some reason. They have found the real princess? Of course, Smith might not even be telling the truth. People like him and Nagi don't usually go in for that sort of thing.. you know, telling the truth. Sadly, I missed that thread and do not know people views.. 10+ pages is a little to much for me to catch up on in that thread.. but I might.. at least skim all but the last few pages.
ZODDGUTS
2006-01-11, 14:55
I don't know whether its my mood suffering from spending all my free time for the last 4 days trying to get my PC working, but this series has recently taken an almighty hit in my liking. I hate even the mention of a relationship between Arika and Sergei, and even when it may be considered a first crush.. it just shoudln't have even have been brought up. I'm intrigued as to what Surnise thought they were achieving exactly by doing this..
Anyway, it looked from what we saw that Rena didn't have much time at all to go about depositing babies into rivers, since she was pursued by what looked like a large paramilitary, now you suggest that there were multiple instances of placing a baby into a capsule and sending them down a river? She was only carrying one on her, so unless someone else put it in the water, or gave it to her, she would have to make two trips to the castly, which no sane person would have done with those odds. If Arika is not that baby, I don't think it was Rena that put her in the river, if indeed Arika actually travelled that way.
Hmm, I guess what you say is possible, but would be illogical and dangerous from Rena's point of view, therefore improbable. I think she only put one baby into a capsule, unless of course this didn't happen at the same point in time. Indeed, Rena could have placed one baby in the river on a completely different day to the one she placed in the river after the attack on the castle. After all, elipsis was used, we do not know how much time passed between the raid on the castle and the one scene we see of her placing an unidentified baby into the river. There is nothing to suggest other events did not occur inside this time span, not limeted to other similar scenes.
Perhaps we are limiting ourselves here, maybe that baby was not even Arika, Nina nor Mashiro, what purpose this might serve in the prosess of story telling I have no idea, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen. This is Sunrise here..
EDIT: Ah yes.. the words between Smith and Nagi towards the end of 13.. that both interested me, and worried me for some reason. They have found the real princess? Of course, Smith might not even be telling the truth. People like him and Nagi don't usually go in for that sort of thing.. you know, telling the truth. Sadly, I missed that thread and do not know people views.. 10+ pages is a little to much for me to catch up on in that thread.. but I might.. at least skim all but the last few pages.
The only thing I could come up with is that Rena during the attack made her move first with Nina (The Princess) putting her in a safe place. Now why would Rena put her own baby in another location? Well maybe since she was at the castle at that time her baby was also there thus her baby was in danger. Rena after putting the princess in a safe location she then wanted to put her baby in a safe place in another location because she could have been seen by the enemy if she went to the baby princess location thus putting the princess in danger. Also she may have used may have used her own baby as a decoy to lure away the enemies to her and away from the baby princess.
The only thing I could come up with is that Rena during the attack made her move first with Nina (The Princess) putting her in a safe place. Now why would Rena put her own baby in another location? Well maybe since she was at the castle at that time her baby was also there thus her baby was in danger. Rena after putting the princess in a safe location she then wanted to put her baby in a safe place in another location because she could have been seen by the enemy if she went to the baby princess location thus putting the princess in danger. Also she may have used may have used her own baby as a decoy to lure away the enemies to her and away from the baby princess.
That would make Rena sound so evil.....her own child as decoy >_>.
But of course, it makes a little sense.
Mine would be more like:
Rena carried 2 babies that night, the real princess (presuming Nina) and her own child (Arika is the best guess now, afterall she said her mother is an otome).
She probably placed Nina at some forest location where it would be less obvious of a location for the baby, and proceeded to bring the baby in the capsule (Arika, her daughter) and send her on her way, before engaging the cyborg and dying?
Episode 10 makes this theory abit contradictory though...Why would Arika be targeted by the cyborg if she isn't the real princess? If it was because she is Rena's daughter, then I wonder if Rena is more than just an Otome.
And if the real objective was to take out the real princess, then one would wonder how Arika's mother can be a queen and Otome at the same time, since there was a stated queen already (who reportedly died with the king).
Theres too little information to make a not-so-flawed theory for now...:(
ZODDGUTS
2006-01-12, 00:54
Didn't the cyborg attack her because she saw him because no one was supposed know that he and the others were there searching for something.
Didn't the cyborg attack her because she saw him because no one was supposed know that he and the others were there searching for something.
Actually, Im pretty certain they were after Arika. There was a part where Midori said something like "go finish her off" or something.
I may be wrong.
kari-no-sugata
2006-01-12, 05:58
Actually, Im pretty certain they were after Arika. There was a part where Midori said something like "go finish her off" or something.
I may be wrong.
They were not after "Arika" so much as "any and all witnesses" - ie it was nothing personal. Arika was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
They were not after "Arika" so much as "any and all witnesses" - ie it was nothing personal. Arika was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Well.....perhaps. We'd never be 100% sure, yea?
Actually, Im pretty certain they were after Arika. There was a part where Midori said something like "go finish her off" or something.
I may be wrong.
Well, "go finish her off" makes it sound as if they have tried to kill her before. But Midori actually just said "keshite!" which means "erase!" or "Kill them!" which perhaps would be a more natural translation. I didn't get the impression Midori recognized Arika as someone important either...
kari-no-sugata
2006-01-12, 06:24
Well.....perhaps. We'd never be 100% sure, yea?
It's a safe working assumption - having a debate about it seems rather pointless. I can't see anything suggesting or hinting that anyone in Asward sees Arika as more than a student at Guarderobe. Their actions make sense without such things as well.
You'll never get 100% certain on anything.
Well, I was under the impression they were after a particular indiviual....."goes off to watch episode 10 again".:heh:
PastPrime
2006-01-12, 09:21
Actually, Im pretty certain they were after Arika. There was a part where Midori said something like "go finish her off" or something.
I may be wrong.
Since the Cyborg didn't even realize she was from Gunderobe until after he came after her, it is highly unlikely that he/she knew who Arika was. She was treated no differently than any gunderobe student would have been.
Rewatched episode 9, and they were really just after the information in the lab.
What puzzles me though...is that, that cyborg seem to be waiting for someone (who just so happens to be Arika). but how would the cyborg know anyone who might be coming? Or was he just a guard?:eyebrow:
kari-no-sugata
2006-01-12, 10:34
Rewatched episode 9, and they were really just after the information in the lab.
What puzzles me though...is that, that cyborg seem to be waiting for someone (who just so happens to be Arika). but how would the cyborg know anyone who might be coming? Or was he just a guard?:eyebrow:
It looks like that that cyborg ("Lumen") went to that particular place in advance of the rest of Asward - and killed the guard. After "disposing" of Arika and Sergay, Lumen simply went back to report to Midori, which is what she/he would have done if Arika hadn't turned up anyway.
So the likely scenario is Lumen was sent ahead by Midori to check things out, attacked and killed the guard, checked out the cave a bit, came back to find Arika, handled that, then went to report (about the cave) to Midori.
So I don't think Lumen was waiting for anyone. If Arika had turned up 5 mins later, Lumen would probably have been gone though Arika would still have found the dead guard.
Yea, true that, but the timing is a little too coincidental...
Arika arriving infront of the guard the moment Lumen is about to leave the cave?
Oh well, we know how stuff like that happen in animes...:heh:
kari-no-sugata
2006-01-12, 11:21
Yea, true that, but the timing is a little too coincidental...
Arika arriving infront of the guard the moment Lumen is about to leave the cave?
Oh well, we know how stuff like that happen in animes...:heh:
Artistic license...:rolleyes:
Takemi_Ikazuchi
2006-01-12, 19:33
based on episode 14
Arika is the Princess
Either Mashiro or Nina is Rena's daughter. Probably Nina given the drama potential.
Of course, I'm not completely sold yet :D
[COLOR="DarkRed"]II hate even the mention of a relationship between Arika and Sergei, and even when it may be considered a first crush.. it just shoudln't have even have been brought up. I'm intrigued as to what Surnise thought they were achieving exactly by doing this..
COLOR]
i agree fully with u pal, perhaps SunRise is trying to satisfy all the pedophilacs out there.............just i hate Sergei's alt in Mai Hime..............i think i hate him as much in Mai Otome...............
not sure why i hate them....maybe its his face...............though they improved his char's personality this time round
Taken from episode 14 thread, thought I'd put it in here:
If Rena survives (maybe Asward let her go) let's say she heads back to get to the other baby, and maybe carries it around the world for a while? An interesting thing would be, just why is Rado specifically targeting Rena? Is there much point in killing an Otome without a master? Or was he targeting the Blue Sky Sapphire?
It's very possible that he was after the BSS. Although I always thought the Rado/Rena interaction was very embittered, almost personally so.
Being that Rena/Rado apparantly had ''something'' together (heh) it's one of the few things I could see translating over into the anime imo. It would be an interesting scenario for Rena to have given up her Otome status and have that backfire on her with the wrong dude. ''This is all the elegant Sapphire of Heaven can do after she lose the power of an Otome'' - as said by the guy who 'deflowered' her. It's so 'wrong' it might actually work. With all this angsty 'love conquers all' thoughts going through Arika's head, that would be quite an ironic reality. And she's turns out not to be Rena's daughter in the anime.
Anyway it's possible that Rado was after the baby but I dunno, I'm just throwing it out there as an idea.
Arika must have been told by 'granny' that her mother use to be an Otome based on the pendant when granny found the baby. Which I suppose it logical enough - only Rena didn't put the pendant on her own baby? Wonderful - and that's if we don't think the pendant may have got swopped by granny or Miyu or someone else. Physically, Arika looks more like Rena than the Queen so I'm holding that as a high possibility - but if Nina is Rena's daughter I would find that so very amusing. It would serve Nina right for being so jealous of 'mommie'.
mutesockpuppet
2006-01-13, 05:12
The real question here is would Rena, being the former Otome of the king, abandon her own child in order to rescue the child of her former Master?
Okay, my thory, I belive that Akira is actually Rena's child. She put Akira in the floating basket with the intention of going back for the Princess and then retiving Akira later. Akira was found and the woman who found her, "Granny," recognised the stones and told Akira that her mother must have been an Otome. Rena managed to fight her way back to where she hid the princess and managed to escape but didn't live long after. The princess was found and raised on the streets untill she was adopted by Serge and named Nena. Masashiro was just a baby that the prime minister found that looked like the princess.
PastPrime
2006-01-13, 08:57
Taken from episode 14 thread, thought I'd put it in here:
Arika must have been told by 'granny' that her mother use to be an Otome based on the pendant when granny found the baby. Which I suppose it logical enough - only Rena didn't put the pendant on her own baby? Wonderful - and that's if we don't think the pendant may have got swopped by granny or Miyu or someone else. Physically, Arika looks more like Rena than the Queen so I'm holding that as a high possibility - but if Nina is Rena's daughter I would find that so very amusing. It would serve Nina right for being so jealous of 'mommie'.
It is possible that the information was wrong. Another red herring like Reito telling Mikota that he was not her brother in Mai HiME.
BrokenWingz
2006-01-13, 10:46
Judging from the typical ending i think that Nina is probably Rena's daughter to resolve her comparsion for affecting complex and not sure (bad memory ><) but isnt Rena's hair blue(like Nina).
The two baby incident could easily explain Arika or Nina being the princess and the other being the daughter, so i'd rule out Mashiro.
Judging from the typical ending i think that Nina is probably Rena's daughter to resolve her comparsion for affecting complex and not sure (bad memory ><) but isnt Rena's hair blue(like Nina).
The two baby incident could easily explain Arika or Nina being the princess and the other being the daughter, so i'd rule out Mashiro.
Um, no. Rena's hair color is the same as Arika's, unless you saw the non-anime pic of Rena (who has blue-ish hair and brown eyes).
kazekiri
2006-01-13, 11:41
It is possible that the information was wrong. Another red herring like Reito telling Mikota that he was not her brother in Mai HiME.'Mikoto', but yeah. Sunrise loved red herrings in Hime and since they waited until the 20's to resolve that plot point I wouldn't take the princess issue as being settled quite yet.
Um, no. Rena's hair color is the same as Arika's, unless you saw the non-anime pic of Rena (who has blue-ish hair and brown eyes).Rena has blue eyes, same as Arika and Mashiro. As far as hair goes, Arika has brown hair and Rena has dark hair. Nowhere is she shown with hair color that look anything like Arika's.
Rena has blue eyes, same as Arika and Mashiro. As far as hair goes, Arika has brown hair and Rena has dark hair. Nowhere is she shown with hair color that look anything like Arika's.
...
I know Rena has blue eyes, I was refering to the pic of the non-MO Rena.:uhoh:
Ok, so the hair isnt the same color as Arika's. my bad.
Well here is my take on it...
I actually think Mashiro has to be the queen and here is why.
First let's go back to 14 years ago. While the nurse/maid witnessed TWO babies, ONE of which was the queen, the other baby had the necklace put on her. She was a witness, and not privy to their plans of escape or means to protect the queen so she we can't take her story that Arika is the "queen" as proof. (I'm saying that because the old lady had no idea what was going on other then seeing the kings (ex)otome giving up the baby in her arms to someone else while putting her saphire necklace on the other baby she personally escorted.) There had to be some sort of plan other then, "hey, I have no powers anymore and will be a target to the enemy but sure, I'll try to escape with the queen"
But really, all we know is that of the 2 babies, one is Rena's daughter while the other is the queen. Which is which is not sure yet.
Then we move on to Nagi telling Sergay that the queen will be the key to ruling the world. (or something close to that) But he needs the REAL queen for that and he can't assume that Mashiro is it when Rena went through some trouble escaping with the other baby.
So, now we know that the Queen of Windbloom is tied to a world "power"
The only thing that suggests that is "Harmonium", obviously a artifact of a lot of power considering it's effects after pressing 1 key without having it really activated.
Now let's focus on that little event. Ep. 7 I think it was. Mashiro and Arika stumble across Harmonium. Here is where it get's interesting. To use it, you need a song, a conducter and a guardian. The real queen has to be one of the 3 since she is the key to that world domination.
Soooo, when Arika and Mashiro step on that organ 2 out of 3 lights glow. Now we can start speculating on who takes what role but let's leave that out for now.
Fact is that Mashiro and Arika fulfill 2 of those requirements meaning they are special. Arika is easy to understand... she could be the queen, qualify being an otome or her "golden" hair could be interpreted as a conducter or a "special" reason.
Mashiro on the other hand has nothing other then a debatable claim to the throne. She has no nanomachines so she can NOT be considered a otome not "tied" to arika at the time since the contract happend AFTER their little adventure with Harmonium.
So, the only way this all makes sense to me is if Mashiro is the real queen, because if she is not, she will truly be a nobody.
That makes Mashiro being the queen a logical step and makes Arika one of the other 2 functions.
Another intersting thing is the cat Mikoto. Especially when the "true Mikoto" spirit arrives at harmonium to tell them they are short 1 person. I doubt there are 2 Mikoto's out there and I doubt they will name her something different, so perhaps the cat is also looking out for the queen.
Another thing that had me decide on Mashiro being the queen. It's Arikas saphire. The thing worked on her even though she had NO nanomachines at the time. I can only imagine that will work if the gem accepts her being the same blood as the former master and for no other reason. Oh yeah another thing about the saphire. It's a windbloom inheritance. Their contract (fate or not) means that Mashiro is bound to Arika even closer. That also means that now Mashiro can't be anything but the queen to harmonium since she would not qualify as an otome for sure.
What do you guys/gals think?
Xellos-_^
2006-01-24, 15:38
First let's go back to 14 years ago. While the nurse/maid witnessed TWO babies, ONE of which was the queen, the other baby had the necklace put on her. She was a witness, and not privy to their plans of escape or means to protect the queen so she we can't take her story that Arika is the "queen" as proof. (I'm saying that because the old lady had no idea what was going on other then seeing the kings (ex)otome giving up the baby in her arms to someone else while putting her saphire necklace on the other baby she personally escorted.) There had to be some sort of plan other then, "hey, I have no powers anymore and will be a target to the enemy but sure, I'll try to escape with the queen"
I would say the Nurse would have pretty good idea which children is which. While I don't think she is privy to all the secrets, as the Royal nurse she would have good what the princess looks like.
Also neither of the baby that was shown has Mashiro's hair color, yet in Mashiro flashback as baby she always had the same hair color.
Oh yeah another thing about the saphire. It's a windbloom inheritance. Their contract (fate or not) means that Mashiro is bound to Arika even closer. That also means that now Mashiro can't be anything but the queen to harmonium since she would not qualify as an otome for sure.
What do you guys/gals think?
The Amulet is the Windbloom Royal inheritance not the Gems themselves. The Gems are pass probably to the next Royal Otome.
Also neither of the baby that was shown has Mashiro's hair color, yet in Mashiro flashback as baby she always had the same hair color.
I don't believe more than one baby was actually shown in episode 17. Only one: the baby with the Sapphire. Rena's child was conspicuously not given a direct 'view'. Or did I miss it.....?
If we calling Sunrise's bluff, then the kid may have had purple or 'silver/white' hair. The baby with pendant does look more like Arika than the other two, but animation coloring is not really evidence either way. My sister was born with blonde hair yet it somehow ended up dark mahogany colored. Not that I'm suggesting such a drastic change in hair color happened in Otome, but *shrugs*
EDIT: I mean episode 15 obviously, and excuse my omission of words, I must be half asleep...
ChaosWing
2006-01-24, 16:07
Another thing that had me decide on Mashiro being the queen. It's Arikas saphire. The thing worked on her even though she had NO nanomachines at the time. I can only imagine that will work if the gem accepts her being the same blood as the former master and for no other reason.
They've already stated that "doing it" destroys the nanomachines so that rules out the ability to pass on the ability to a child. I know just them saying it isn't really proof enough but you'd think there'd be a lot of wandering girls, and guys, with Otome nanomachines in them simply because of blood ties to past Otome. The scene you are talking about I think can be looked at differently.
Think of it this way - do you think it's possible Arika is a "creation" much like Alyssa was in MH? Miyu-vision did show us glowing yellow hair and this would help explain the nanomachines in her. Also, from what Sergei said in episode 15 it seems the old stories of this land are based on the Golden Era that Searrs was attempting to acheieve several hundred years prior.
omegastar
2006-01-24, 16:16
Another thing that had me decide on Mashiro being the queen. It's Arikas saphire. The thing worked on her even though she had NO nanomachines at the time.
Arika had the nanomachines since the fight with Nina in Ep2. They are not inserted or removed everytime she transforms, you know :heh:
ranchan13
2006-01-24, 17:46
Arika had the nanomachines since the fight with Nina in Ep2. They are not inserted or removed everytime she transforms, you know :heh:
Yet her pendant activated briefly in Episode 1
Asianknight82
2006-01-24, 18:05
Arika is the Queen
Mashiro is Rena's Daughter
and Nina is just an orphan.
KiraDouji
2006-01-24, 18:28
Yet her pendant activated briefly in Episode 1
I've been wondering about this too. If Arika is, in fact, the queen as we're being lead to believe, then why did the GEM react to her in episode one, before she received the nanomachines? At the same time, though, was it really her that the GEM was reacting to at that point in time? I'm not so sure, considering that every time it lit up Nina was touching Arika. This is most evident when they're falling and Nina grabs Mashiro first, keeps falling, grabs Arika and... poof! random robe overlay and they float for a bit.
So I guess my theory on the subject is that the GEM was reacting to Nina, not Arika.
- Kira
Xellos-_^
2006-01-24, 18:53
I've been wondering about this too. If Arika is, in fact, the queen as we're being lead to believe, then why did the GEM react to her in episode one, before she received the nanomachines? At the same time, though, was it really her that the GEM was reacting to at that point in time? I'm not so sure, considering that every time it lit up Nina was touching Arika. This is most evident when they're falling and Nina grabs Mashiro first, keeps falling, grabs Arika and... poof! random robe overlay and they float for a bit.
So I guess my theory on the subject is that the GEM was reacting to Nina, not Arika.
- Kira
But the robe was overlaid on top of Arika not Nina. If it was reacting to Nina then robe should have be overlaid over her and not Arika.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-24, 18:54
I've been wondering about this too. If Arika is, in fact, the queen as we're being lead to believe, then why did the GEM react to her in episode one, before she received the nanomachines? At the same time, though, was it really her that the GEM was reacting to at that point in time? I'm not so sure, considering that every time it lit up Nina was touching Arika. This is most evident when they're falling and Nina grabs Mashiro first, keeps falling, grabs Arika and... poof! random robe overlay and they float for a bit.
So I guess my theory on the subject is that the GEM was reacting to Nina, not Arika.
My theory, revised.
The nanomachines and the GEMS are symbiotes, they both need each other in order to function properly at max.
Rena released the baby into the canal and placed the pendant on the child, when she confronts Rad, the pendant shines. Surely that meant something. She placed that pendant to protect the child, queen maybe, or maybe even her daughter.
So far the gem has activated when Arika was in danger of being killed (Note I said killed here). However, it's ability is limited in that Arika doesn't have nanomachines. When Nina touched Arika when falling, I am willing to bet the pendant itself, finding Arika in danger, activated by stealing/using some of Nina's nanomachines to keep her safe...but of course for a limited period of time.
2nd time it activated, NINA was NOT there. What did it do instead? It blasted that Slave with an energy blast. No need for nanomachines in that case (Note I'm talking about defending Arika with it's limited abilites). It knew that more was needed so it released the stones, telling Arika, "use us and we'll protect you and Mashiro." As Natsuki said, the contract was made by fate which is why she's allowing it to be. Those STONES wanted Arika to make a certificate with Mashiro for a very good reason.
Thus, there are 2 possibilities
1 - Rena tricked the old lady, my argument is that if you want to protect someone, deception is the best way to do it. What better way to protect someone than by acting as a decoy? She placed the pendant on her daughter's neck to protect her because their after her now, not the real princess. The pendant itself has a mind of it's own and said, "i'll protect your daughter and carry the legacy."
Arika is Rena's daughter, Mashiro is the queen, and Nina is something else but has to be related somewhat, afterall she's seen Rena's face as in episode 6. Another thing as she sinks she sees Arika as Rena.
2 - Arika is the real princess and Mashiro is her sister (there has to be a link) with Nina being Rena's daughter.
It could also turn out that the King and Queen had twins or siblings or something and hid the other as a plan B as they knew Rena retired and no new Otome had arisen yet.
Do you guys ever get the feeling that the three key to the harmonia thingy at palace may pertain to Arika, Nina and Mashiro who knew the same song...?:confused:
Xellos-_^
2006-01-24, 19:59
Do you guys ever get the feeling that the three key to the harmonia thingy at palace may pertain to Arika, Nina and Mashiro who knew the same song...?:confused:
It is a given the song will be important.
It is one of the rules of writing. If you mention something in the first act, then it will be important to the plot later on.
snow_hat
2006-01-24, 20:35
i think arika is bcoz in episode 15 the granny said that the one with the azure sky sapphier is the real queen so im convinced its her
Elwhyenen
2006-01-24, 20:43
i think arika is bcoz in episode 15 the granny said that the one with the azure sky sapphier is the real queen so im convinced its her
Haha, are you familiar with Sunrise's habit of throwing you in one direction, then dangerously swerving to the other side, succesfully throwing you down a cliff? :heh:
The primary reason I doubt its Arika, is because they're saying so obviously that she is. I have a feeling its Mashiro, only because we were told so much that she isint.
(Unless they want me to think this way. Then I'm falling for thier trap. But what if they knew that I knew about their trap so th- okay nevermind.)
Thats true. All we saw in episode 1 was a baby with the sapphire of the azure sky and then there is a 15 year blank, until Arika enters wearing it around her neck. Basically, the baby with the sapphire around its neck is Queen, but theres no telling that Arika is that baby. Anything could have happen in those 15 years.
Thats true. All we saw in episode 1 was a baby with the sapphire of the azure sky and then there is a 15 year blank, until Arika enters wearing it around her neck. Basically, the baby with the sapphire around its neck is Queen, but theres no telling that Arika is that baby. Anything could have happen in those 15 years.
I have a feeling that the pendant placed around our baby, i.e. the 'queen,' was a fake, and that that baby, therefore, was not Arika.
Here's why. And the assumption that I am making is one where I strongly believe that the animators don't make such obvious mistakes.
The key to my conclusion is that the pendant placed around the 'queen' did not have the two stones within it.
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5681/arikababyep14oldw0yb.jpg
However, the baby depicted in episode 1, whom Rena told to 'live,' did have a pendant with the stones encased.
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5431/arikababyep1preview3aj.jpg
In addition, the pendant, observed by Sergey prior to the attack, had the stones encased. One can see this in episode 2.
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/888/arikababyep2sergey3hv.th.jpg (http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arikababyep2sergey3hv.jpg) http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1680/pendantep2sergey7sv.th.jpg (http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pendantep2sergey7sv.jpg)
In all three cases, Rena (http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/5527/renasayersmother7ra.jpg) did not wear the stone anymore. Although one may argue that one would not be able to see the blue saphire, it is clearly visible from the art (http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/5752/renasayersotome9gx.jpg) that the blue saphire would be quite noticeable.
In addition, Rena was no longer an otome, and so the only logical place for those stones to be would be the pendant. If the pendant releases the stones, I also think it reabsorbs them. How? Ask SUNRISE. That's weird science... But it makes no difference. The fact the Rena no longer has nanomachines implies that no matter what happens, the pendant will not release the stones to Rena.
Either way, my point is that the pendant placed around the queen was not the real saphire of heaven. It was a fake. I believe that Rena kept the real pendant for the important baby - her own baby - the one who has the ability to shape the future as a powerful otome. I believe that after the 'queen' was safe, Rena ensured her own baby's safety.
This makes sense in why else would Arika's grandmother know that Arika was Rena's daughter, or anyone's daughter, in fact. Some plan had to already exist in case the castle would be attacked. Some communication had to take place.
Now, the odd thing here is that both babies look alike. The one with the fake pendant and the one with the real pendant both have the same hair colour.
Some time ago some theory surfaced in Mashiro and Arika could be sisters. Whether or not one baby was Mashiro is yet to be determined, but I would think that it's a pretty good guess to say that those two babies may be sisters, or twins.
Half-sisters more like it. Or maybe they were twins, and the firstborn is the real queen. Maybe Rena was a surrogate mother who had twins.
Who knows... But that they look so alike... Makes one wonder.
True, Arika's, Nina's, or Mashiro's hair look different. But that's only natural. It's truly amazing how a few years in the dessert bleaches one's hair.
Naturally, if SUNRISE is in error regarding the pendant drawings, then this whole theory goes kaboom! And this is what i'd do to SUNRISE: :bash:
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-25, 00:18
True, Arika's, Nina's, or Mashiro's hair look different. But that's only natural. It's truly amazing how a few years in the dessert bleaches one's hair.
Wow that's some bleaching then :heh:
True, looking at the pictures, either your theory is right (fits in with the deception) or it's just a blunder on Sunrise's part.
One thing though: If so, did the baby(supposed real queen) lose the fake pendent? Surely even if its fake, that it should had made an appearence by now.
And thats assuming that Nina is the real queen, she somehow lost the fake pendent?
And with that, it would also make Mashiro's possibility of being the real queen pretty close to 0. Why? Mashiro was found by a theif, unless you were to argue that that very same theif stole the fake pendent....:hmm:
Of course, all this is presuming that there was no 3rd party removing the fake pendent...
Wow that's some bleaching then :heh:
True, looking at the pictures, either your theory is right (fits in with the deception) or it's just a blunder on Sunrise's part.
True. And I'm the first to admit that the hair colour doesn't match. But then, if a baby's hair colour is not blonde then it usually stays as is. I cannot say if that same rule applies in anime.
Yikes, I know the bleaching is stretching it a little, but other than SUNRISE screwing up, it's about the only solution I could think of. :uhoh:
For some reason I just don't think that SUNRISE made such an important mistake. I mean, if they did, then what assurance do we have that all the other details of the show - the details that make it so interesting - aren't mistakes as well?
If that foundation of 'trust' was ever removed, SUNRISE would loose all credibility.:mad:
One thing though: If so, did the baby(supposed real queen) lose the fake pendent? Surely even if its fake, that it should had made an appearence by now.
And thats assuming that Nina is the real queen, she somehow lost the fake pendent?
And with that, it would also make Mashiro's possibility of being the real queen pretty close to 0. Why? Mashiro was found by a theif, unless you were to argue that that very same theif stole the fake pendent....:hmm:
Of course, all this is presuming that there was no 3rd party removing the fake pendent...
Well, and here goes another theory: How about using the real queen as a decoy? People in the room realized that the real queen had the pendant. But they probably didn't pay attention to the details.
Let's say that that information about the pendant leaked and the real queen was found. Somebody might've wanted her for their own gain.
Naturally, upon discovering that the pendant was a fake, it could certainly be assumed that the 'princess' would be a fake too, and no use to anyone.
Hiding in the shadows, the thief followed Rena to where she placed the baby in the river. He bid his time, knowing that discovery would expose the plan. He waited until Rena returned to the palace before he made his move. After this, he was sure that he would finally be recognized for his thiefing skills. All he had to do now was deliver the baby... In anger, the pendant was thrown to the ground where it laid, shattered. The real princess was nowhere to be found...
Whoever found her probably didn't realize the pendant was a fake. Thinking she was the real princess, she was returned to court to the powers that be. However, those people knew what the real pendant looked like. Recognizing it as a fake they thought they were had. In reality, however, the queen is back in court, safe and sound.
This kinda fits the way SUNRISE thinks. And as SoldierOfDarkness implied, there are quite a few people out there who think that Mashiro is the real queen. They conclude this by the very fact that SUNRISE is exceptional with its use of red herrings and that they have tried so very, very hard to make us think that Mashiro is not the real queen.
The problem lies in that this theory leaves no room for Nina. But Nina never had to be placed at the court, did she? We only thought so because of the song all three shared.
However, knowing that song does not imply that they had to learn it together. As is, a newly born is too young anyway to learn and remember the stanza of a song. No, Nina, Mashiro, and Arika - most likely independently of each other - learned the separate stanzas on purpose. But who the mastermind behind that was remains to be seen. Perhaps the harmonium had something to do with it?
No, all we know so far is that Rena sang it, and that Arika's grandma knows it. Beyond that, Sergey heard Rena sing it, as did the Queen. But, ironically, there is no recollection to Sergey ever hearing Nina sing it.
There are quite a few people out there who think that Mashiro is the real queen.
One right here.:heh:
Takemi_Ikazuchi
2006-01-25, 05:42
Rena's daughter is Nina. Not only because it has great irony and melodrama potential.
In the Nina's flashback we saw Rena crying above her. Crying.. Rena had attachment to this baby. Did we see her crying when she drifted away the princess? No.
Mashiro is most likely a random (but no so random) street rat. I believe she has connections to Fumi. Possibly a reincarnation of somekind.
Arika is just a freak. A product of an ancient technology. A relic like Miyu.
Arika is in fact a nanomachine colony; which is why her nanomachine compatibility is so good and why she glows in Miyu vision. Quite possibly something designed to live in in or counter the post moonlight butterfly.. err.... harmonium reset era. I look forward when all factions gather in the undergrond archives and the black history err... record of the past is revealed.
The real princess is someone else.
My theory, revised.
The nanomachines and the GEMS are symbiotes, they both need each other in order to function properly at max.
Rena released the baby into the canal and placed the pendant on the child, when she confronts Rad, the pendant shines. Surely that meant something. She placed that pendant to protect the child, queen maybe, or maybe even her daughter.
So far the gem has activated when Arika was in danger of being killed (Note I said killed here). However, it's ability is limited in that Arika doesn't have nanomachines. When Nina touched Arika when falling, I am willing to bet the pendant itself, finding Arika in danger, activated by stealing/using some of Nina's nanomachines to keep her safe...but of course for a limited period of time.
2nd time it activated, NINA was NOT there. What did it do instead? It blasted that Slave with an energy blast. No need for nanomachines in that case (Note I'm talking about defending Arika with it's limited abilites). It knew that more was needed so it released the stones, telling Arika, "use us and we'll protect you and Mashiro." As Natsuki said, the contract was made by fate which is why she's allowing it to be. Those STONES wanted Arika to make a certificate with Mashiro for a very good reason.
Thus, there are 2 possibilities
1 - Rena tricked the old lady, my argument is that if you want to protect someone, deception is the best way to do it. What better way to protect someone than by acting as a decoy? She placed the pendant on her daughter's neck to protect her because their after her now, not the real princess. The pendant itself has a mind of it's own and said, "i'll protect your daughter and carry the legacy."
Arika is Rena's daughter, Mashiro is the queen, and Nina is something else but has to be related somewhat, afterall she's seen Rena's face as in episode 6. Another thing as she sinks she sees Arika as Rena.
2 - Arika is the real princess and Mashiro is her sister (there has to be a link) with Nina being Rena's daughter.
It could also turn out that the King and Queen had twins or siblings or something and hid the other as a plan B as they knew Rena retired and no new Otome had arisen yet.
well I'm happy more people are realizing that Mashiro is the queen. The saphire is key and so is harmonium. The fact that it reacted to both mashiro and arika is proof enough for me that Mashiro can't be a fake.
I was only argueing that Mashiro is the queen, but since you all want to know about arika/nina I can only think of this.
Based on Nina's memories, their birthdates and eye color, I have to assume they are twins.
Oh, also... why do people think Mashiro has blue eyes? She has green eyes.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-25, 10:20
Based on Nina's memories, their birthdates and eye color, I have to assume they are twins.
Nina and Arika are also the same height too. Mashiro though is a little shorter.
KiraDouji
2006-01-25, 11:52
But the robe was overlaid on top of Arika not Nina. If it was reacting to Nina then robe should have be overlaid over her and not Arika.
I'm sorry, I don't follow why it should overlay on Nina, who is already wearing a robe. Arika is the owner of the GEM currently, so the GEM would then try to manifest on it's owner given the chance. I can see that "It's Nina's nanomachines, therefore it should show on Nina" but, um, I don't think we've ever seen one robe replace another without contract. Then again, this is just speculation. Is there something else you think is happening here? :uhoh:
Also, someone mentioned the time when the GEM activated without Nina. Let me revise my theory to: the GEM was acting to the nanomachines in Nina. The second time mentioned (with the Harmonium near by), it used Arika's nanomachines. That's what I was trying to get at, although not very clearly. -_-; I Think SoldierOfDarkness related the theory best.
- Kira
scribbly
2006-01-25, 12:05
Based on Nina's memories, their birthdates and eye color, I have to assume they are twins.
Nina's birthday is not necessarily the day she was born. It was the day Sergey met her. Not to say it isn't coincidentally also her birthday... but for all we know she's a stunted 20 year old born April 1st. And eye color? They have the same eye color? They *could* be twins, but definitely not identical. Out of curiosity, does Nina have Reito's eyes?
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-25, 13:14
Also, someone mentioned the time when the GEM activated without Nina. Let me revise my theory to: the GEM was acting to the nanomachines in Nina. The second time mentioned (with the Harmonium near by), it used Arika's nanomachines. That's what I was trying to get at, although not very clearly. -_-; I Think SoldierOfDarkness related the theory best.
Well like I said, regardless of nanomachines, harmonium or not and Nina, the Gem activated when Arika was in danger.
I forgot to add in the airplane when Arika was first placed in danger, the Gem itself activated the plane and thus, got her at least out of danger temporarly or at least was trying to escape.
Then 2nd time when Nina grabbed Arika, the Gem itself attempted to save Arika by materializing the robe using Nina as a blueprint.
3rd time the Gem activated to save Arika when the SLave attacked, no evidence of nanomachines or the harmonium(it was closed), like the airplane incident, it activated to SAVE Arika by blasting it and releasing the stones.
The Gem is just being flexible to protect Arika as Rena intended it to do. Whether she's the princess or her daughter is still up to debate.:heh:
The Gem also activated when Rena was killed (at least from what we believed) so the baby that was released in the canal must've been Arika.
So techincally it's activated at least 4 times.
The Gem also activated when Rena was killed (at least from what we believed) so the baby that was released in the canal must've been Arika.
That makes Mashiro the Queen =)
I guess it can be argued that Nina was the queen that Rena brought to safety and Mashiro some random distraction for the invadors.
I am still convinced that Mashiro is the queen because what happend at harmonium. Nina is important still I bet and perhaps even the sister of Arika (my dad and his brother are twins but look nothing alike)
That makes Mashiro the Queen =)
I guess it can be argued that Nina was the queen that Rena brought to safety and Mashiro some random distraction for the invadors.
I am still convinced that Mashiro is the queen because what happend at harmonium. Nina is important still I bet and perhaps even the sister of Arika (my dad and his brother are twins but look nothing alike)
I don't think it should be argued anymore that Nina was the queen. There is no basis of evidence for that anymore, not since the image of the pendant around the real queen - the image of the fake pendant.
I guess one needs to decide if either the pendant placed around the 'Queen', as seen in ep 14/15 was a fake, or SUNRISE made a serious drawing error. I'm assuming the pendant was fake. The latter does not seem probable, i.e. I don't think SUNRISE messed up.
Since the pendant is a fake, Arika can not be the queen for Arika had the real pendant. That leaves either Mashiro or Nina. As per above theory in a different post, it could be Mashiro.
But I don't think it is Nina. People say that Nina remembered her mother when she was placed in the canal. That inference is the only clue we have and it is about as farfetched as it can get. There is absolutely no evidence anymore that is supporting that theory. The only thing that both supposed incidences have in common is the position of the moon.
Here's what Nina saw:
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/762/ninamotherep6lg4wf.th.jpg (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ninamotherep6lg4wf.jpg)
Here's the canal with Rena:
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/143/renaep1canallg8qw.th.jpg (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=renaep1canallg8qw.jpg)
First, let's remember that the baby had her eyes closed when she was sent away. She was sleeping. How can a sleeping baby have such memories? And how can a baby, in general, remember a face almost 15 years later?
Second, Nina's mother only had light shine on her from her back. Rena had it from several directions, one being the moon. The inference I am drawing that we're dealing with two different locations.
Third, Nina's mom's hair and attire looked a little different than that of Rena's. Even the face looked different. Again, using inference, I would assume that they are not the same person. The image of Nina's mother does not coincide with being Rena.
I don't know where Nina fits in, but I don't think that she was at the court at the time of the attack. And if she was, wouldn't that make her a residence of Windbloom rather than Artai, or wherever Nagi is from?
And last, but not least, here's the piece of evidence that definitely does not place Nina with Rena at the canal: It has been established in my previous post that the baby sent off with the real pendant was, in fact, Arika. Arika had the real pendant. Where the real queen was sent off to, the one with the fake pendant, who knows. But we have no evidence tying her to Nina.
In order to use inference, we have to have some facts. Originally, some existed to make that assumption, but when SUNRISE brought forth the image of the fake pendant, that theory went kaboom. :bash: Hmm, we need an exploding Smilie.
KiraDouji
2006-01-25, 15:41
3rd time the Gem activated to save Arika when the SLave attacked, no evidence of nanomachines or the harmonium(it was closed), like the airplane incident, it activated to SAVE Arika by blasting it and releasing the stones.
Um... what do you mean "no evidence of nanomachines"?:confused: They're in Arika's bloodstream. I'm sorry, you've lost me now.
- Kira
Um... what do you mean "no evidence of nanomachines"?:confused: They're in Arika's bloodstream. I'm sorry, you've lost me now.
- Kira
he meant that in ep. 1 when arika ran into the airplane to get away from the slave... that was pre- nanomachine injection.
The slave example was used to support the "it activates when Arika is in real danger" theory.
But this thread is about Mashiro and if she is or isn't a queen.
cynicalicious
2006-01-25, 17:08
IMO what made MyHime so good in the first place was the conflict and the divided loyalties. Sunrise being Sunrise, I sincerely doubt that they would want to stray too far from a successful dramatic formula. So I don't think Sunrise would waste a lot of effort to make the plot overly complex in this series by adding a 'fake' pendant just to throw everyone off. If they're going to throw everyone off, they'll get much weirder than that.
But my hunch is that the real struggle lies in what happens if Mashiro really *isn't* the queen, and Arika really *is* the queen? Since they've already made a contract, they're bound to each other. So there's one nice big fat conflict. Add to that Nina's huge crush on Sergey, and Sergey's orders to make the 'real queen' (assuming it's Arika) his puppet-- more conflict. And if Sergey decides to leave Nagi's service to protect Arika, add even more conflict between him and Nina. And Nina and Arika... etc, etc.
All of this to set up Nina in jealous berserker mode, Mashiro in crazy betrayed by my otome mode, and Arika in omgwtf everyone hates me what the hell did *I* do mode.
Selling a good story is all about selling conflict, after all. The better the conflict, the better the story.
Of course if you're just speculating wildly, then if you just go by who sort of resembles whom, it could be that Arika is the fire string gem lady (forgot her name)'s kid, and through some series of blunders, she wound up with the sapphire. Meanwhile, Nina could be Rena's kid (yeah, I know, no evidence other than looks), while Mashiro was the Duke's child, and the real queen is someone else. (Hell, maybe the Duke turned her into a cat. :P )Then again, I'm just going off of hair color there. But that's just as plausible as inventing a fake pendant.
What I'm guessing is that the vagaries in the pendant are just animation variations. That happens all the time, especially when you have a lot of the grunt work shipped out.
it could be that Arika is the fire string gem lady (forgot her name)'s kid, and through some series of blunders, she wound up with the sapphire.
Sorry, but Mai (with the fire string ruby) is barely 5+ years older than Arika, so that theory is wrong.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-25, 20:38
Sorry, but Mai (with the fire string ruby) is barely 5+ years older than Arika, so that theory is wrong.
Well, the record for youngest mother in the world was a five year old chilean girl (i think she is form chile). Her son was more less raise as her younger brother and he didn't find out till he was like in his 40s. They never did figureout who the father was through :eyebrow:
Well, the record for youngest mother in the world was a five year old chilean girl (i think she is form chile). Her son was more less raise as her younger brother and he didn't find out till he was like in his 40s. They never did figureout who the father was through :eyebrow:
Somehow I dont think Mai is the mother because....she was still an otome before she went into the forest, right?
And I dont think she has exceptional abilities to retain her nanomachines after giving birth to Arika(obviously not possible) BEFORE entering Garderobe...:heh:
cynicalicious
2006-01-25, 21:28
Well, I prefaced it as wild speculation. It's as likely Rena going to the trouble to make a fake necklace as the castle is under attack. :D
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-25, 21:40
Well, the record for youngest mother in the world was a five year old chilean girl (i think she is form chile). Her son was more less raise as her younger brother and he didn't find out till he was like in his 40s. They never did figureout who the father was through :eyebrow:
Spain it was I believe, back in ~1920. Though there are others too...sad and strange.
Eitherway it's ridiculous to discuss this for Mai Otome because the Japanese can't be THAT crazy to even input that.:heh:
But this thread is about Mashiro and if she is or isn't a queen.
No the thread is about whose the real queen and I believe that Arika isn't the queen.
But my hunch is that the real struggle lies in what happens if Mashiro really *isn't* the queen, and Arika really *is* the queen? Since they've already made a contract, they're bound to each other. So there's one nice big fat conflict. Add to that Nina's huge crush on Sergey, and Sergey's orders to make the 'real queen' (assuming it's Arika) his puppet-- more conflict. And if Sergey decides to leave Nagi's service to protect Arika, add even more conflict between him and Nina. And Nina and Arika... etc, etc.
One crazy assumption would be that their both legilable to be the queen as their both related.
Like how Nina said it wasn't a lie that Arika is Mashiro during episode 12 and then replied with the fact the two made a contract:heh: Ah man, imagine that, how would they explain that?
Well, I prefaced it as wild speculation. It's as likely Rena going to the trouble to make a fake necklace as the castle is under attack. :D
I am of the express opinion that evacuation plans are not created at the last moment. That fake pendant was made some time before the attack and kept a secret. Why? Because they probably knew that there was a snitch somewhere.
No, Arika is not the queen. All indications point towards Mashiro being the Queen. But unlike the facts that prove that Arika is not the Queen, there is not such evidence about Mashiro being the Queen.
I'm more inclined to speculate that Nina is the real queen.
Take into account Nina's flashbacks from her past. When Sergey found her, she was barely subsisting in the slums.
Sergey confessed to Nina that the reason why he picked up September 7th for her birthday was due that he encountered and adopted her into his family.
Another coincidence that Nina holds the same birthday as Mashiro and Arika, although that date could in fact hold some meaning.
Yazakura
2006-01-31, 02:37
The easiest ways to determine this are if Sunrise doesn't end the series on a cliff hanger is:
A: Let them work their magic
B: Let them fail at it somehow
C: Keep on guessing
D: Give up and say we couldn't care less about who the real queen is.
Nah, I'm just jearkin' your chain. (LOL) I need to finish the series before making wild assumptions....:D
PastPrime
2006-01-31, 09:25
I'm more inclined to speculate that Nina is the real queen.
Take into account Nina's flashbacks from her past. When Sergey found her, she was barely subsisting in the slums.
Sergey confessed to Nina that the reason why he picked up September 7th for her birthday was due that he encountered and adopted her into his family.
Another coincidence that Nina holds the same birthday as Mashiro and Arika, although that date could in fact hold some meaning.
Just as Arika looks much more like Rena than either Mashiro or Nina, Nina looks much more like the Queen than either Arika or Mashiro.
Asianknight82
2006-01-31, 10:04
Actually the 5 yr old mother was from Peru not Chile
I'm more inclined to speculate that Nina is the real queen.
Take into account Nina's flashbacks from her past. When Sergey found her, she was barely subsisting in the slums.
Sergey confessed to Nina that the reason why he picked up September 7th for her birthday was due that he encountered and adopted her into his family.
Another coincidence that Nina holds the same birthday as Mashiro and Arika, although that date could in fact hold some meaning.
Unless SUNRISE made some serious drawing errors, it is very unlikely that Nina is the real queen. Post 204 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=456814&postcount=204) proofs why Arika can not be the Queen. Post 207 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=456975&postcount=207) is why Mashiro might just be the real Queen. And post 216 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=457496&postcount=216) is why Nina is most likely not the Queen.
ranchan13
2006-01-31, 20:30
You know, I can't help but wonder one thing. Why does Arika remind me of Midori. Same hair color, similar personalities. So far in the series, there is only proof of the Queen's death through word of mouth. Perhaps, Midori is the real Queen of Windbloom, and Arika is perhaps her daughter.
Mashiro is most likely Rena's daughter, and it is still entirely plausible that Rena (or the Queen) had twins. This isn't something that necesarily had to go public, as twins could have been seperated at birth for national security in case of an attack like the one that occured.
PastPrime
2006-01-31, 21:35
Unless SUNRISE made some serious drawing errors, it is very unlikely that Nina is the real queen. Post 204 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=456814&postcount=204) proofs why Arika can not be the Queen. Post 207 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=456975&postcount=207) is why Mashiro might just be the real Queen. And post 216 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=457496&postcount=216) is why Nina is most likely not the Queen.
How are someones guesses proof of anything? We likely won't have definite proof of who the real queen is until the last episode. Until then everything is guesses, not proof. And, since Nina looks a lot like the painting of the queen, how would it mean that Sunrise had to make a drawing error for her to be queen?
scribbly
2006-01-31, 23:57
So far in the series, there is only proof of the Queen's death through word of mouth.
And the episode 1 flash back of the attack showing two lifeless bodies dressed in the attire that the king and queen dressed in...
MattAlchemy
2006-02-01, 01:20
Who knows if Arika's necklace is really from her mom's? Maybe Arika stole it from the real person who was sended to.:heh:
Tatiana Razajev
2006-02-01, 03:35
We likely won't have definite proof of who the real queen is until the last episode.
I hope they don't wait that long. I'd like to see the real Queen deal with the realization of her position while at the same time. As well as the reactions of everyone else. It would be far better if you ask me, for the real Queen to be revealed say by episode 20 at the latest. Waiting until 26 just gives a case of "Gasp she's the Queen. THE END".
PastPrime
2006-02-01, 12:30
I hope they don't wait that long. I'd like to see the real Queen deal with the realization of her position while at the same time. As well as the reactions of everyone else. It would be far better if you ask me, for the real Queen to be revealed say by episode 20 at the latest. Waiting until 26 just gives a case of "Gasp she's the Queen. THE END".
It probably won't be the last episode since I think it will play an important role in the last few episodes, but I don't expect it until at least 22.
Xellos-_^
2006-02-01, 13:26
I hope they don't wait that long. I'd like to see the real Queen deal with the realization of her position while at the same time. As well as the reactions of everyone else. It would be far better if you ask me, for the real Queen to be revealed say by episode 20 at the latest. Waiting until 26 just gives a case of "Gasp she's the Queen. THE END".
I say Ep22. Late enough to keep people but still leaves enough time to futhur the plot.
Unless SUNRISE made some serious drawing errors, it is very unlikely that Nina is the real queen. Post 204 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=456814&postcount=204) proofs why Arika can not be the Queen. Post 207 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=456975&postcount=207) is why Mashiro might just be the real Queen. And post 216 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=457496&postcount=216) is why Nina is most likely not the Queen.
How are someones guesses proof of anything? We likely won't have definite proof of who the real queen is until the last episode. Until then everything is guesses, not proof. And, since Nina looks a lot like the painting of the queen, how would it mean that Sunrise had to make a drawing error for her to be queen?
Well, if you wish to review the evidence given by SUNRISE (see post 204 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=456814&postcount=204)), assuming they have not made drawing errors, and assuming that no additional evidence will be added (yeah right!), we do have definite proof that Arika is not the Queen. Everything else is just inference.
PastPrime
2006-02-02, 01:19
Well, if you wish to review the evidence given by SUNRISE (see post 204 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=456814&postcount=204)), assuming they have not made drawing errors, and assuming that no additional evidence will be added (yeah right!), we do have definite proof that Arika is not the Queen. Everything else is just inference.
Actually, while I do not believe that Arika is the Queen, post 204 does not represent proof. We only assume that Arika is the baby in episode 1 because of the jewel, but, since we are not shown what happened in between, there is no PROOF that she is.
-KarumA-
2006-02-03, 03:41
Somehow I dont think Mai is the mother because....she was still an otome before she went into the forest, right?
And I dont think she has exceptional abilities to retain her nanomachines after giving birth to Arika(obviously not possible) BEFORE entering Garderobe...:heh:
that also and AGE!
in the 1st episode int hat flashback mode when the baby gets dropped into the water you can see Sergey look out of the window, if Mai were to be the queen baby, how old would that make Sergey or Natsuki O.O; since they were in the same class :twitch: , Mai being queen theory : WRONG *buzzkill*
I have a suggestion: cant someone do a DNA test? since the tech so great those times....
I have a suggestion: cant someone do a DNA test? since the tech so great those times....
Considering how they have car designs that look very 60's, I dont think its surprising that they dont have DNA testing.
Of course, theres also the fact that they lost the technology a few hundred years ago, and Garderobe probably holds more tech than any other country besides Schwarz or Aswad.
i still think that city has far more technology then other city in the series but yet there are far more can do... since the school has a lot of technology...
who being the real queen... they will kno the answer at the end...
we mite keep on guessing but yet i think it is better if we have a "?" in the head...
keep the surprice up~!
KiraDouji
2006-02-06, 10:30
I think it's worth pointing out that even if they did have the technology somewhere to say definately "this is the princess" or "this isn't the princess", it was in their best interests not to use it. They only had one possible canidate for 14 years and a 50/50 chance of her actually being the queen. If they proved her not to be, they just considerably weakened their government's global position. However, if it's neither confirmed that she is the princess, nor denied that she is not, they can maintain a stable ground far longer. (although, not indefinately)
- Kira
Obsidian penguin
2006-02-06, 10:52
My theory :
Nina = real queen
Mashiro = Rena's daughter
Arika = Rena's clone (with Miyu's team engenieering...)
It's only my theory.
Aegelward
2006-02-06, 10:59
not that genes matter in anime, but from what i remember of the portraits of the former king and queen of windbloom, their hair was pretty close to mashiro's, and nina is possibly rena's daughter...
i think arika could be mai's daughter somehow o_o since she shares the same colour hair...
i think arika could be mai's daughter somehow o_o since she shares the same colour hair...
Mai = roughly 5 years older than Arika.
Mai = still a virgin at age 15/16(Pearl)
Go figure.
My theory :
Nina = real queen
Mashiro = Rena's daughter
Arika = Rena's clone (with Miyu's team engenieering...)
It's only my theory.
I like to thinck so too ... there's just one problem ... if the real queen of WindBloom is Nina then were in for a realy dark story ... remmember Sergey's little story to Arika before he dumped her
Sevenseas
2006-02-07, 07:39
It would be funny if the real queen really died in that attack back then. ^^
AsukaBoogiepop
2006-02-07, 12:48
I think Mashiro is the queen :p because Arika looks way too much like Rena (specially with that blue clothes and the images in the new opening)..... and Nina ...well maybe Nina is product of a failed experiment created to supplant the real queen @_@ ....I wonder if my female instinct is correct nowadays
I'm also curious about the relation Sergey/Rena o.O
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