View Full Version : Character review: Arika Yumemiya
Anime Adoru
2005-12-31, 10:11
Arika Yumemiya is the first person we see in Mai Otome, and probably the series' main hero as well. We don't know much about her upbringing; her family situation is one of the mysteries of Mai Otome. All we know is that she grew up in Gallerie, a rather remote place, not knowing much about the world at large before she came to Windbloom to enroll at Garderobe, the famous School of Otome.
Arika is a cheerful and energetic person. She is spontaneous, uncomplicated, and direct, with a positive outlook on life and a kind heart. In episode 2, she decides to take things into her own hands by asking the school council to admit her in person, against prior customs. In episode 6, she recognizes before the teacher that Nina is drowning, and jumps into the pool to save her.
http://www.adoru.com/mai-otome/ep09/ep09pic09tmb.jpg http://www.adoru.com/mai-otome/ep10/ep10pic69tmb.jpg
A key scene to understand Arika is her reaction to Nina helping the street kid in episode 11. Her face is both smug and happy at once. It is a smug face, because she is telling the world "I knew it!" and it is a happy face, because she got proof that Nina, who has been cold to her at times, is a kind person at heart. What a wonderful scene!
For me, her lack of complication and inhibition sometimes crosses over into obnoxiousness, for example, when she's having a field day tickling Nina into exhaustion. But then, she grew up in Gallerie, a less complicated place than Windbloom, and probably one with rougher customs. Still, I could not detect any meanness in her personality.
Another prominent thing about Arika is that she is the heir of the Blue Saphire GEM, a powerful nano-machine enhancing (control) device. All is set for Arika to become one of the most powerful otomes ever. She certainly has the necessary instincts as well as physical skills, which outshine even Nina's.
The one thing that makes her truly unique among the characters in Mai Otome is her moral values. So far we mostly learn about them in this quirky "my grandma says" way, and usually laugh about it. However, Arika's moral judgement is fiercly independent, coming straight from her guts (and grandma, for that matter). She seems undeterred by anything others are telling her about what is proper behavior. Combined with her growing prowess as an Otome, Arika's values gives her the power to chart a course of her own. She is the one whose moral compass will give her direction when everyone else is likely to be confused as to what this world is turning into.
Arika is smart, though not super-smart. Nina, for example, is more intelligent. We see this in episode 9, when the exam teams are charting their course for the 100km multi-day hike. Arika and Erstin decide to walk along the shoreline, while Nina and Tomoe correctly recognize from the map that the shoreline path will become dangerous later on because of a lot climbing will have to be done.
http://www.adoru.com/mai-otome/ep09/ep09pic17tmb.jpg http://www.adoru.com/mai-otome/ep09/ep09pic18tmb.jpg
Arika's biggest weakness is her lack of refinement and knowledge. In principle, this could be fixed. However, it just doesn't look like Arika is the type to take on the dignified behavior of a royal princess or even that of a refined otome like Shizuru (who Arika mistakes for the queen, when she first sees her on television in episode 1). Just look at how uncomfortable Arika is impersonating Mashiro in episode 12!
http://www.adoru.com/mai-otome/ep09/ep09pic02tmb.jpg http://www.adoru.com/mai-otome/ep09/ep09pic05tmb.jpg http://www.adoru.com/mai-otome/ep12/ep12pic03tmb.jpg http://www.adoru.com/mai-otome/ep12/ep12pic18tmb.jpg http://www.adoru.com/mai-otome/ep12/ep12pic21tmb.jpg
Arika's lack of worldly knowledge is a real problem, rendering her unsuitable for diplomatic services, and questionable as an adviser to a king or queen. In episode 12, her cluelessness becomes embarrassingly clear, when she can't even imagine that there might be places on this planet where people commit ritual suicide to repent for minor misbehaviors or failures. I sooo hope that Sunrise will provide cluelessness relief so I don't always feel embarrased for Arika whenever she says something stupid.
My fantasy for Arika is that one day she tells Natsuki that she will have all the power in the world that she needs and that she has come to Garderobe to learn about world affairs and be a better adviser to the kings and queens of this planet. (And then goes on to revise the school curriculum and refocus it more on diplomacy.) But I guess that would be out of role and beyond the current series' scope.
This review is dated as of after episode 12.
Another prominent thing about Arika is that she is the heir of the Blue Saphire GEM, a powerful nano-machine enhancing (control) device. All is set for Arika to become one of the most powerful otomes ever. She certainly has the necessary instincts as well as physical skills, which outshine even Nina's.
Some of the things in this paragraph, are without fact to base the statements upon. For example, Arika may not be the heir of the gem, to make that correct she would have to be Rena's daughter and would have to have got it on purpose. Whether she is Rena's daughter, well, that is pure speculation, for all we know, she could be completely unrelated to Rena. As for the gem, how she came about obtaining it is anyone's guess at the moment. It could have been given to the wrong baby, or placed there by mistake for Arika to find. All of Arika's past is a tricky collection of speculation, imagination and half-truth.
Again, what exactly the gem is or does, we do not know. It could quite possibly enhance or control the nanomachines inside her, but this again is speculation. All we know is that it made her a whole lot better at everything physical. Whether it can only be used by her, again, we do not know. As well as this, we cannot comment on Arika's physical abilities either, since we do not know how much is her, and how much is the gem. She is above average for sure, but how much above we don't know, and can only guess for the moment.
And one might ask, anyway, what use are extreme physical abilities to one that cannot think to use them in any more than simplistic ways? Hmm, she means well, but with such powers and a lacking understanding of the modern urbanised world, she could do a lot of damage. I like her as a character, but like Nina, Erstin, etc, she isn't going to fare to well on her own, lets hope she keeps her friends alive through to the end, then.
Some of the things in this paragraph, are without fact to base the statements upon. For example, Arika may not be the heir of the gem, to make that correct she would have to be Rena's daughter and would have to have got it on purpose. Whether she is Rena's daughter, well, that is pure speculation, for all we know, she could be completely unrelated to Rena. As for the gem, how she came about obtaining it is anyone's guess at the moment. It could have been given to the wrong baby, or placed there by mistake for Arika to find. All of Arika's past is a tricky collection of speculation, imagination and half-truth.
Now, now. What we have seen in episode 1 was that Rena placed the capsule with the baby and the gem on the river, with a very conscious "Live!" wish. Unless you want to argue that whoever found this capsule removed the gem from it and passed it on to Arika, it's clear that Arika _is_ the heir to the gem. Is the "switch" scenario impossible? No. Is it likely? No, not at all.
It's a matter of speculation whether or not the baby in the capsule is the princess or not. But I find it very unlikely that the baby in the capsule was not Arika, and the gem was not dedicated to her.
Anime Adoru
2005-12-31, 11:59
Some of the things in this paragraph, are without fact to base the statements upon. For example, Arika may not be the heir of the gem, to make that correct she would have to be Rena's daughter and would have to have got it on purpose. Whether she is Rena's daughter, well, that is pure speculation, for all we know, she could be completely unrelated to Rena. As for the gem, how she came about obtaining it is anyone's guess at the moment. It could have been given to the wrong baby, or placed there by mistake for Arika to find. All of Arika's past is a tricky collection of speculation, imagination and half-truth.
Ok, thanks. I'm already trying to say as little as possible...
And one might ask, anyway, what use are extreme physical abilities to one that cannot think to use them in any more than simplistic ways? Hmm, she means well, but with such powers and a lacking understanding of the modern urbanised world, she could do a lot of damage. I like her as a character, but like Nina, Erstin, etc, she isn't going to fare to well on her own, lets hope she keeps her friends alive through to the end, then.
Well, Sunrise is hardly to spill all the beans early on and they can turn and twist the story as they like. Still: Unlike Nina, who is a loner, Arika is actually quite good at building friends, I think, and will listen to them if it makes sense for her. While she might be dangerous if she doesn't really know what she is doing, I think her character will quickly lead her to fix whatever wrong she might have done once she recognizes it. No complicated being ashamed here...
Ok, thanks. I'm already trying to say as little as possible...
:eyebrow: And that would mean what, exactly?
In reply to both the above posts, what exactly would make Arika the heir to the gem? Even if it was not switched, being an heir to something in this respect means that they are in the same family is the owner > Arika's family is pure mystery, and Rena being her daughter is speculation. Therefore, saying Arika is the heir to the gem is speculation, and not fact.
Trying for the hairsplitting award of the year? ;)
The gem was carefully placed on the baby's chest before Rena sent her off. And Rena was the clear former owner of the gem, so she obviously WANTED the baby in the capsule to have it. Inheritance is usually based on family ties, but not necessarily so.
Arguing against the baby in the capsule being the true intended "heir" to the gem is pretty outlandish. Sorry. While I generally agree with being careful in conclusions, we shouldn't overdo it with conspiracy theories.
Xellos-_^
2005-12-31, 12:28
:eyebrow: And that would mean what, exactly?
In reply to both the above posts, what exactly would make Arika the heir to the gem? Even if it was not switched, being an heir to something in this respect means that they are in the same family is the owner > Arika's family is pure mystery, and Rena being her daughter is speculation. Therefore, saying Arika is the heir to the gem is speculation, and not fact.
Being a heir of something doesn't automatically make someone a part of someone's familiy. Sports do it all the time labeling some young player as Heir to either the best player on thier team or their sport. A better word would actually be Sucessor imo. And since Rena place the Stone with thebaby in Ep1 and We then see Arika with the same Stones a few minutes later. I think it is safe to assume that Arika was that baby and she meant to have the blue gme stones.
Still: Unlike Nina, who is a loner, Arika is actually quite good at building friends, I think, and will listen to them if it makes sense for her. While she might be dangerous if she doesn't really know what she is doing, I think her character will quickly lead her to fix whatever wrong she might have done once she recognizes it. No complicated being ashamed here...
Well, my friend, there is another one of those posts from the same place as the last one, eh? ;)
Arika isn't necessarily good at building friends. She doesn't build friends. She makes them undeliberately through her good will and builds them by accidents are random acts of kindness. I doubt she intends or even thinks about half the things she does to make such friends. She hasn't actually acted deliberately as a 'listener' so far, as I am aware. Oh, that fact that she is dangerous because of the fact she won't realise what she has done is wrong until it is too late, even if she figures it out at all. The things I fear she could do, are unfixable, even by a skilled negotiator, which Arika is most definetly not. We have the powder keg, and Arika is simultaneously a fuse and light.
Oh, and please, please do not refer to someone as a loner when it comes from their psychological make-up and up-bringing. Again I am speaking from my knowledge of psychology, which I owe to a great many family members, but anyone can see that the way Nina is because of the things she suffered in her youth, and her up-bringing. One's early years are a great influence to the way they turn out later on in their lives, and it sticks, being very hard to correct or change the longer you leave it.
Imagine yourself as a baby, floated down a river into a foreign country, and stranded there because the person that was supposed to pick you up didn't. Then imagine living on the streets as a homeless child until you were 9 years old, when you were in hospital and seen, thank your lucky stars, by a prospective adoptive father. You were then adopted by him, him being the first ever person in your entire memories to show you any kindness. He buys clothes for you, provides food, a bed, a roof over your head, family and most of all, love. He treats you as your own child.
Surely, by now, you too would have a huge admiration for your adoptive father, and would only be interested in him simply for the reason that he is the only one that has shown you any love in your memeory, ever. Then you are sent off to a very respected school, the highest possible academy, the thing of similar aged girl's dreams, by this man. Surely you would want to show him gratitude in return, and being presented with the extrememly competetive lifestyle that is the way of an Otome, you find a way, in your mind, to show that you appreciate him.
You then find you are a natural at what you do, and shoot to the number one spot of the lowest rank, an incredible achievement. However, this does little good for your social skills or they way your mind words. You view everyone as competition for this top spot, and therefore competition for the position you use to show your adoptive father your thanks for taking you in, in your eyes again. You view everyone as competition, and treat them as such, cutting youself off from them.
Surely you, also, would be unavoidably a 'loner'. Please don't use that word to mock her, or anyone. I have not experience a life like that personaly, always having had a family around me, but I know of and have met several people, though my relative's careers, that have. I talked to one of these people in depth on occasion, and I think it did wonders for the way I treat people. After leaving the room with a handshake, I told myself I would do my best to tolerate people's ways if they were because of reasons such as this, since, as you can probably guess, I am not a very tolerant person at the best of times.
Thankfully for Nina, she has be given a way out at an age it is not to late to change the way one is. Arika is her gateway to friendship, which she never experienced before.
And of course, on the other side, there is always the possiblity of a relationship with Erstin. ;)
Being a heir of something doesn't automatically make someone a part of someone's familiy. Sports do it all the time labeling some young player as Heir to either the best player on thier team or their sport. A better word would actually be Sucessor imo. And since Rena place the Stone with thebaby in Ep1 and We then see Arika with the same Stones a few minutes later. I think it is safe to assume that Arika was that baby and she meant to have the blue gme stones.
That few minutes was 14 years. A considerable length of time for anything to happen. In fact, you just made me sure of my own opinions in that Arika's is necessarily the heir/sucessor, or whatever, to the gem. There is no proof that she is the baby. There is no solid proof she is Rena's daughter. There is nothing stopping her from recieving that gem from her 'grandmother'.
Arguing against the baby in the capsule being the true intended "heir" to the gem is pretty outlandish. Sorry. While I generally agree with being careful in conclusions, we shouldn't overdo it with conspiracy theories.
You seem to have missunderstood, I am not saying that that baby in the capsule was not the heir to the gem, but that does not have to be Arika. Wouldn't that be an excellent plot twist? If Arika is not that baby in the capsule, then the gem was clearly not intended to go to her. And please don't argue with that, sending a baby on a mission with a gem to give it to someone is ridiculous.
And please don't tell me the meaning of heir. Instead look at the phrase 'in this case', because, in this case, if the baby in the capsule was Rena's daughter, then she would be passing the gem down the family line, and nothing else.
Anime Adoru
2005-12-31, 13:08
Being a heir of something doesn't automatically make someone a part of someone's familiy. Sports do it all the time labeling some young player as Heir to either the best player on thier team or their sport. A better word would actually be Sucessor imo. And since Rena place the Stone with thebaby in Ep1 and We then see Arika with the same Stones a few minutes later. I think it is safe to assume that Arika was that baby and she meant to have the blue gme stones.
Well, here is the evidence I can see.
1. As you just mentioned, the way things are set up suggest that there is a line from the GEM, Rena, the baby put into the capsule, and Arika. While each step theoretically could have something inserted in between that breaks the links, the simplest story is usually the best one.
2. I'm not sure where exactly, but I think it is episode 8, the one after the harmonium episode, where Nina and Sergey talk about the harmonium sound and what might have happened to Arika. They say stuff like "did the GEM already accept her?" etc. which we know is exactly what happened in episode 7. What it means for a GEM to accept a person remains mysterious, but obviously there was a bond between the GEM and Arika.
Whether there is an important distinction between being heir or successor to the GEM I don't know.
Anime Adoru
2005-12-31, 13:19
Arika isn't necessarily good at building friends. She doesn't build friends. She makes them undeliberately through her good will and builds them by accidents are random acts of kindness. I doubt she intends or even thinks about half the things she does to make such friends.
Point taken, meaning, I should be more precise: Arika isn't building a social network deliberately, she just happens to be a kind and outgoing person that makes friends as she goes along.
Oh, and please, please do not refer to someone as a loner when it comes from their psychological make-up and up-bringing.
I'm not a native speaker of English. "Loner" didn't have a strong negative connotation to me (some, but not strong). Is it such a negative term?
I actually think it fits Nina, without making it a value judgement. An example clue Sunrise gives us is the swimming pool comedy relief episode. We see Arika, Erstin, and Irina researching stuff, and we see Nina, separately and alone researching stuff as well.
I should have looked at your avatar/forum picture. My best guess is now that you are a true Nina fan. So I'd love to see you write a Nina character review... somewhat like you did in this post already, I guess. But I'm sure people will be all over it if you don't support it with specific references to events in the series as opposed to "general knowledge" and your reading of her :-)
Well, here is the evidence I can see.
1. As you just mentioned, the way things are set up suggest that there is a line from the GEM, Rena, the baby put into the capsule, and Arika. While each step theoretically could have something inserted in between that breaks the links, the simplest story is usually the best one.
We know, from Mai HiME, Sunrise isn't one for simple stories. We can already see that Mai Otome is not and will not end up a simple story. I think the phrase 'nothing is impossible' applies here, with in some cases the 'only improbable' bit tagged on the end, but not in this. You seem to be basing your assumption on the idea that Sunrise will stick to a simple story, lacking in red herrings and false leads.
2. I'm not sure where exactly, but I think it is episode 8, the one after the harmonium episode, where Nina and Sergey talk about the harmonium sound and what might have happened to Arika. They say stuff like "did the GEM already accept her?" etc. which we know is exactly what happened in episode 7. What it means for a GEM to accept a person remains mysterious, but obviously there was a bond between the GEM and Arika.
Whether there is an important distinction between being heir or success to the GEM I don't know.
Well, even though that is intriguing in itself, it doesn't mean that Arika was intended to get them gem by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. Whereas it is logical to assume that a family descendant would attach themselves to such a thing at a rapid pace, Arika is not exactly a 'normal' character, practically invalidating that logic.
Though, the comment about it accepting her doesn't exactly inspire any confidence in her from me. It sounds to me like an accident waiting to happen.
Point taken, meaning, I should be more precise: Arika isn't building a social network deliberately, she just happens to be a kind and outgoing person that makes friends as she goes along.
Agreed on that point.
I'm not a native speaker of English. "Loner" didn't have a strong negative connotation to me (some, but not strong). Is it such a negative term?
I actually think it fits Nina, without making it a value judgement. An example clue Sunrise gives us is the swimming pool comedy relief episode. We see Arika, Erstin, and Irina researching stuff, and we see Nina, separately and alone researching stuff as well.
I personally find 'loner' a very strong and negative term. It isn't probably so strong in most of other people's minds, since they might not have had actual experience with so called 'loners'. Nina is more.. hmm.. how about this: she previously responded very negatively to anything other than competetive contact with anyone but her adoptive father, Sergei. Her character is still significantly hindered by the remainder of this problem, though through social contact and developing friendships, this is reversible. Just so long as everything goes 'according to plan'.
I should have looked at your avatar/forum picture. My best guess is now that you are a true Nina fan. So I'd love to see you write a Nina character review... somewhat like you did in this post already, I guess. But I'm sure people will be all over it if you don't support it with specific references to events in the series as opposed to "general knowledge" and your reading of her :-)
I might be a 'true' fan, but that doesn't make me blind to her many negative points. I find consolation in the fact that she has shown much progress so far. And if it has any relevance, I hated her in the first few episodes. Term 'b*tch' came to me on many occasion, my low tolerance levels comming out again, but I saw beyond that, eventually.
I did make another Nina-heavy post a couple of days back in this thread due to the comical 'reminders' she gave Arika being called acts of sadism, which they most certinely were not. That post was helped along by my studies of media, and so was composed more from actual references, as you put. I might write a character review sometime.. perhaps.
Anime Adoru
2005-12-31, 13:45
Well, even though that is intriguing in itself, it doesn't mean that Arika was intended to get them gem by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. Whereas it is logical to assume that a family descendant would attach themselves to such a thing at a rapid pace, Arika is not exactly a 'normal' character, practically invalidating that logic.
Though, the comment about it accepting her doesn't exactly inspire any confidence in her from me. It sounds to me like an accident waiting to happen.
C'mon... The GEM has kicked into action many times itself to protect Arika. The GEM necklace voluntarily gave Arika the ear gemstones and activated nicely in episode 7. All of this is an accident? It doesn't matter how Arika relates to Rena and where she got the GEM from. Matter of fact, the GEM cooperated with Arika as much as we could expect.
What I don't know, but would like to know is where the earpieces are now and why the GEM hasn't kicked into action lately, i.e. when Arika had to be rescued by Sergey. But I think this question is separate from our discussion here.
Anh_Minh
2005-12-31, 13:55
I personally find 'loner' a very strong and negative term. It isn't probably so strong in most of other people's minds, since they might not have had actual experience with so called 'loners'. Nina is more.. hmm.. how about this: she previously responded very negatively to anything other than competetive contact with anyone but her adoptive father, Sergei.
Not really. She was cold to Arika at first, but she had her reasons. (Like Arika almost costing her her place at Guarderobe, for example.) Erstin, to name one, doesn't seem to have any problem with Nina. And even her other classmates were surprised about her rant on the competitiveness of the academy - she usually isn't like that.
It's true she isn't as touchy feely as Arika. But I don't see that as a flaw to be corrected. (But then, if a semi-stranger tried to be as familiar with me as Arika is with practically everyone, she'd be looking at a punch in the face. I mean, yeesh, personal space!)
You seem to have missunderstood, I am not saying that that baby in the capsule was not the heir to the gem, but that does not have to be Arika.
Preston, with all due respect, take a deep breath first, then read what you really wrote, and then try to think again whether others may have misunderstood you, or if you maybe happened to express yourself in a wrong way.
All started with this comment from Anime Adoru:
> Another prominent thing about Arika is that she is the heir of the Blue Saphire
> GEM, a powerful nano-machine enhancing (control) device.
Then, you slammed him in a (IMHO) pretty haughty and factually incorrect way:
> Some of the things in this paragraph, are without fact to base the statements
> upon. For example, Arika may not be the heir of the gem, to make that correct
> she would have to be Rena's daughter and would have to have got it on purpose.
Unlike you, he based his statement (that Arika is the heir to the gem) on the few _facts_ which we had: 14 years ago, a baby in a capsule receives the gem from the owner in a way which is clearly intentional (it's placed in the capsule). 14 years later, a girl of exactly the right age is shown carrying this very gem. Those are the only FACTS we have. The conclusion/assumption that Arika is the same girl from the capsule is very probable.
Furthermore, you are simply factually incorrect in that Arika needs to be Rena's daughter to be the heir of the gem. She doesn't have to be. You can be the heir to an item if the former owner decides to purposely pass it on to you. That's obviously what Rena did, under the assumption that Arika was indeed the baby in the capsule.
Adding all this together, Anime Adoru's statement sounds very reasonable to me and hardly deserves the uncalled for lecture which you let loose. Of course, you're free to believe that the baby in the capsule was someone else, Arika's baa-chan stole the gem from her and passed it on to Arika, who just happened to be at the very same age.
Possible? Sure. Likely? Not really. "It would be a great plot twist", you say. That might be, even though I'd feel that this would be very forced and feel contrived. And unlike Anime Adoru, you don't have ANY factual basis for your hypothesis whatsoever. So please feel free to think whatever you want, but I'd kindly ask you to ease your tone on those who opt to stick closer to what's shown in the anime.
Preston, with all due respect, take a deep breath first, then read what you really wrote, and then try to think again whether others may have misunderstood you, or if you maybe happened to express yourself in a wrong way.
All started with this comment from Anime Adoru:
> Another prominent thing about Arika is that she is the heir of the Blue Saphire
> GEM, a powerful nano-machine enhancing (control) device.
Then, you slammed him in a (IMHO) pretty haughty and factually incorrect way:
> Some of the things in this paragraph, are without fact to base the statements
> upon. For example, Arika may not be the heir of the gem, to make that correct
> she would have to be Rena's daughter and would have to have got it on purpose.
Unlike you, he based his statement (that Arika is the heir to the gem) on the few _facts_ which we had: 14 years ago, a baby in a capsule receives the gem from the owner in a way which is clearly intentional (it's placed in the capsule). 14 years later, a girl of exactly the right age is shown carrying this very gem. Those are the only FACTS we have. The conclusion/assumption that Arika is the same girl from the capsule is very probable.
Furthermore, you are simply factually incorrect in that Arika needs to be Rena's daughter to be the heir of the gem. She doesn't have to be. You can be the heir to an item if the former owner decides to purposely pass it on to you. That's obviously what Rena did, under the assumption that Arika was indeed the baby in the capsule.
Adding all this together, Anime Adoru's statement sounds very reasonable to me and hardly deserves the uncalled for lecture which you let loose. Of course, you're free to believe that the baby in the capsule was someone else, Arika's baa-chan stole the gem from her and passed it on to Arika, who just happened to be at the very same age.
Possible? Sure. Likely? Not really. "It would be a great plot twist", you say. That might be, even though I'd feel that this would be very forced and feel contrived. And unlike Anime Adoru, you don't have ANY factual basis for your hypothesis whatsoever. So please feel free to think whatever you want, but I'd kindly ask you to ease your tone on those who opt to stick closer to what's shown in the anime.
There you go, you seem to have misunderstood my post on a different level altogether, it was never intended as an attack, though it might have come off as one. And one thing, I'm writing here, you can't really tell what tone I am adopting.
Factually incorrect, you say? The paragraph I have taken the liberty of pointing out using bold font is.. well, nonsense. Where have you got the information from that Rena meant to, or thought she was giving it to Arika when she gave it to the baby in the capsule? She was giving it to a baby who's identity is unknown, and Rena did not indicate to who she was giving it to.
That statement was correct, because if Arika was not the baby in the capsule, she would be no sort of heir what-so-ever, and I pointed out why in one of my previous posts. But I shall do so again, if Arika was not that baby, then Rena obviously had no intention of giving it to Arika.
I'm at a true loss for words at this point. Perhaps you did not see all my posts above, or perhaps I really am completely misreading your post.
Not really. She was cold to Arika at first, but she had her reasons. (Like Arika almost costing her her place at Guarderobe, for example.) Erstin, to name one, doesn't seem to have any problem with Nina. And even her other classmates were surprised about her rant on the competitiveness of the academy - she usually isn't like that.
It's true she isn't as touchy feely as Arika. But I don't see that as a flaw to be corrected. (But then, if a semi-stranger tried to be as familiar with me as Arika is with practically everyone, she'd be looking at a punch in the face. I mean, yeesh, personal space!)
You could say that again. ;)
I think the classmates were more surprized because Nina had let herself have a bit of a rant at Arika, which was out of character, she normally wouldn't speak to people, since she is a closed sort of person.
When I say 'corrected' I refer to much deeper things than the way she acts with Arika.
Xellos-_^
2005-12-31, 15:13
That statement was correct, because if Arika was not the baby in the capsule, she would be no sort of heir what-so-ever, and I pointed out why in one of my previous posts. But I shall do so again, if Arika was not that baby, then Rena obviously had no intention of giving it to Arika.
I'm at a true loss for words at this point. Perhaps you did not see all my posts above, or perhaps I really am completely misreading your post.
Please explain how base on the evidence presented so far that Arika is NOT the baby that we were shown in Ep1. If Arika is not that baby please explain how Arika came into procession of the Gem Stones? I would to hear your theory.
Please explain how base on the evidence presented so far that Arika is NOT the baby that we were shown in Ep1. If Arika is not that baby please explain how Arika came into procession of the Gem Stones? I would to hear your theory.
Please explain how, based on the evidence thus far that prooves Arika is that baby inside the capsule in episode 1. I think you will find it is not based on fact, but your own assumptions you have taken as facts. Please do not enter into an argument with me when you call my theories unlikely, when your own are neither more nor less likely. In fact, when you think about it, my theory depends on more plausible fact than your own.
How? Well, I am arguing the it is equally likely that Arika is that baby as it is likely she is not. There is no solid evidence, nor proof, that would hold any sway in, for example, a court situation, that says that Arika is that baby. A theory that she was not the baby is no less sensible than one where she is, but you seem to have got so wrapped up in your own assumptions and speculations that you have convinced yourself that that is Arika.
I think you saw the error in your own post there as you seem to have ignored the question I asked you. Where does Rena indicate that she thinks she is giving the gem to baby Arika? Nowhere is the arnswer. Thus invalidating your comment, and making your mockery of mine a complete contradiction.
As for asking me how Arika could have come into possession of the gem, that is utterly ridiculous, and I think you know it. Its like asking me to predict the future of the series. God knows, it could be anything, and I won't waste my time making one up. She could have recieved the gem by any means, from the sensible to the completely implausible.
Please do not accuse me of creating a lecture when your own posts is no better, claims mine holds no fact, when your own hold facts alright, ones that contradict each other completely.
Talking of likelihood when you are referring to a completely fictional fantasy story, created by Sunrise of all people, is a little foolish unless it is taken with a grain of salt. I accept that it is possible that Arika is that baby, as possible as not. Until we gain any fact, not twisted fact turned assumption, we cannot really argue otherwise.
This was a peaceful post, please do not think the tone or anything was intended to make it an attack. If I attacked your point of view, I assure you that you would notice.
Xellos, I'm about to give up. This is getting too ridiculous :)
Preston, please grow up. Xellos asked you in a perfectly polite manner on what evidence you base your hypothesis on that Arika was not the same baby which was put into the capsule by Rena 14 years ago. The connection which was made by the facts (= what is shown in the anime) is that obviously the same gem which was in the capsule ended up in possession of Arika, who also happens to be of the "correct" age. Drawing the conclusion that therefore, Arika is most likely the same one as the baby is obvious and kindergarten complexity level. All of this may not be 100% bulletproof conclusive, but it's a reasonable assumption consistent with the facts.
Now you have been asked what other theory you might have, and whether or not your theory can be supported by any shred of evidence from the anime. Doing this is not "ridiculous", it's the normal way of discussing things. Do you feel up to a reasonable dispute or not? Because otherwise, this is a huge waste of time.
Xellos, I'm about to give up. This is getting too ridiculous :)
Preston, please grow up. Xellos asked you in a perfectly polite manner on what evidence you base your hypothesis on that Arika was not the same baby which was put into the capsule by Rena 14 years ago. The connection which was made by the facts (= what is shown in the anime) are that obviously the same gem was in the capsule ended up in possession of Arika, who also happens to be of the "correct" age. Drawing the conclusion that therefore, Arika is most likely the same one as the baby is obvious and kindergarten complexity level. All of this may not be 100% bulletproof conclusive, but it's a reasonable assumption consistent with the facts.
Now you have been asked what other theory you might have, and whether or not your theory can be supported by any shred of evidence from the anime. Doing this is not "ridiculous", it's the normal way of discussing things. Do you feel up to a reasonable dispute or not? Because otherwise, this is a huge waste of time.
Ugh.. I am getting tired of this argument, so how about I put it in laymen's terms, clear, crystal and obvious sentences, with nice bold headings and seperate paragraphs for you. Please, do not tell me to grow up when you.. ugh.. I cannot even be bothered. Really, this is tiresome. If one is told to grow up when they just excercised a common method of argument, you might not give such a good impressions of yourself to them, something to bear in mind when one is trying to make their point through peaceful methods.
Point number 1: Arika may or may not have a been born on September 12th.
Point number 2: There is no, I repeat, no proof indicating that she was born on September 12th. The date could have been picked for whatever reason by her 'grandmother' who might not even be a relative.
Point number 3: There is again, no proof to say that she was not born of September 12th. Therefore tieing in nicely with the above point and making it correct that one is neither more nor less likely than the other.
Point number 3: Mashiro's birthday may or may not be September 12th. Regardless of her real birth date, if she is not the real princess that is, that would have to be her offical birthday to fit records and so not to raise suspicions.
Point number 4: Nina's birthday may or may not be September 12th. We do not know if Sergei selected that day simply because that was the day he supposedly met Nina on, we could, of course, just choose to believe him.
Conclusive point: Not a single one of the birthdays is for sure. This is obvious.
EDIT: Got 2 arguments going on, so I could get a little mixed up. Please excuse me when this happens, I am attempting to operate from memory alone. X.x And this late at night, it isn't easy when you got up at 5AM, damn it.
The exact date of their birthday has no relevance whatsoever for the point being discussed, namely whether or not Arika should/could be called "heir of the Blue Sapphire gem". Or does it?
I hope you guys don't mind, but I'm gong to move this discussion to its own thread (nothing will be deleted; everything will just be transferred over). There's enough good stuff here (good thoughts Preston) that it belongs in its own thread and that way you can roam a bit more off-topic if you want (out of the bounds of Ep 12 or 13).
I'm going to move the Shizuru discussion to its own thread as well (yes, I know it's highly flammable).
Cheers. :)
Ah.. looks like we kind of de-railed the thread.. episode 12 discussion.. um.. so.. someone want to pick up where we left the actual episode discussion behind?
I should have looked at your avatar/forum picture. My best guess is now that you are a true Nina fan. So I'd love to see you write a Nina character review... somewhat like you did in this post already, I guess. But I'm sure people will be all over it if you don't support it with specific references to events in the series as opposed to "general knowledge" and your reading of her :-)
Actually, I'd like to see a character review from you as well. Don't worry, I won't come down so hard on you about it. x.x I might follow it up with one of my own, I always love to see what people think of characters, and compare them with my own opinions. If I see something I disagree strongly about, I reply, and treat it as something I disagree about, but never mean to offend as I must do in some cases.
"I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus."- Agent Smith
Ah, great quote, great quote. Know if by heart myself for some wierd reason. I just remember quotes. And, inconvieniently, not a whole lot else. X.x Not to be picky, but isn't the last word 'disease'? ;) :p Actually, now I'm not so sure..
Alright I have hear enough of this.
I have read everybody's thread correctly.
I would say that I half agree with Preston that Arika's family background is a mystery and about the blue gem unfortunately I could not agree with him. However I did read from other post in other thread debating "who would be the true queen of windbloom" and some stated that Nina was the one in the basket because we get a glimps that the baby hair was not orange. Countary to that, there are some post who said that the baby in the basket was arika and the gem belongs to her mother.
To put things in the light...we are all not sure who was Arika's true biological mother only speculation base on the gem that was placed on the basket together with the baby. So it is safe to say that the blue gem might be for Arika from the start.
About the birth date, I will have to agree with Preston cause I debated with him before about this matter. Arika's grandma might be not someone related in the royalty but might know something about arika. Nina's birthday date was given by Sergay as we all can see from the episode 11.
About mashiro's birth date, since she was brought into the light of royalty, they do keep a record of her and thus gave her the supposed date. (Someone mention this before, forgot the name)
Note: This is a forum for debating and sharing ideas. Please don't get heated up because of a small matter. Right now most things that we are debating are still mostly based on our speculation and we have no concrete proof about it yet. So take it easy guys.
friendshipz
2006-01-01, 06:07
after reading from all post (skiped some of them...too long winded and reiterative)
i felt preston had something against akira being the heir of the gem or whether she is rena child or whatever it is...
but from my point of view starting from scene of esp 1 where rena place a child in the basket comes after akira singing the "hoshi ga kanaderu monogatari" then back to recap every parts of the opening theme.
akira is the main of the main char , that is fact. main char are the person who did the great part of the series ,just like mai hime for tokiha mai . so if lets say for option 1 and 2
1) being rena daughter
2) being the princess
she could be either one of it or maybe both... but she cant be related to segey.. if that is so..that sux so much..
we all know that we only have a scattered information about akira,nina or mashiro and all the entire mai otome char, but then once again opening theme tells all , the gem cant be mashiro or nina...(the opening theme impressed me to pressume this way) even if sunrise wanted to surprise us ,the gem belongs to others are far too way out of the points... as only the heir could posses the power of the gem and activate it
from wat i had said, it is greatly base on the opening theme...until the next new opening theme,we have nothing more to argue about the idenity of arika,mashiro ,mai and nina...as everything will be revealed...
i felt preston had something against akira being the heir of the gem or whether she is rena child or whatever it is...
Oh no, I just have a problem with being told to grow up when I am trying to make a point. Why should I have any particular problem with Arika being the so-called 'heir' to the gem? She already has the power, why the hell does it matter by what means she got it, because no one is going to take it from her now.. actually.. I could hope for that, but come on, Arika isn't about to lose the gem. The thing is, people are swearing blind that she has to be either the heir or the successor to the gem, and I say what a load of crap. She doesn't have to have got it by having it pased onto her by Rena.
A point that is not easy at all to see! Perhaps I am not making it clear enough.
Point 1: We do not know who the baby in the capsule is. There is nothing indicating it is Arika, but nothing indicating that it is not Arika. It is a simple assumption that Arika is that baby, but calling it fact is plainly incorrect.
Point 2: Rena gave the gem to that baby, therefore indenting that baby to have it.
Final point: If that was not Arika in the capsule, then Rena did not intend her to have it, therefore invalidating the supposed fact that Arika was the heir/successor to the gem.
Now please tell me you understand, that was simple enough, right?
I love Arika. I would f*ck her.
Interesting.. I guess.. O.o
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-01-01, 07:49
Interesting.. I guess.. O.o
Ignore that guy. That was his first post, which means he was most likely trolling for a response. I reported him already...
lol, guess it will be his first post and the last.
Ignore that guy. That was his first post, which means he was most likely trolling for a response. I reported him already...
Mm, I guessed so.
Rakshasa
2006-01-01, 08:29
Point 1: We do not know who the baby in the capsule is. There is nothing indicating it is Arika, but nothing indicating that it is not Arika. It is a simple assumption that Arika is that baby, but calling it fact is plainly incorrect.
Considering Nina's flashback while drowning in the pool, I think it is very likely that she was at some point in the capsule. The setting and viewpoint matches very well, but I suspect she was swapped out with Arika before being set on the river.
Considering Nina's flashback while drowning in the pool, I think it is very likely that she was at some point in the capsule. The setting and viewpoint matches very well, but I suspect she was swapped out with Arika before being set on the river.
There is also nothing to indicate that there was only one capsule. Nina could be that baby, or she could have been in a completely different capsule had that baby been Arika. We shall just have to wait and see.
There is also nothing to indicate that there was only one capsule. Nina could be that baby, or she could have been in a completely different capsule had that baby been Arika. We shall just have to wait and see.
There is only 1 capsule to be exact...there was no indication that there were 2 capsule. However, I do believe that the one in the capsule was Arika because the gem was with her. There would not be swapping between babies I think...anyway, either one would be correct till we watch all of the episodes.
:heh:
Point 2: Rena gave the gem to that baby, therefore indenting that baby to have it.
Well, heres something I'd want to say:
At some point, you said something like: In this case, "nothing is impossible" can be applied.
So doesn't that mean that it is possible that even if the baby wasn't Arika, the gem might be intended for Arika instead of that baby?
One could also argue that the gem was merely used as a safeguard to protect the baby on the journey, and not meant for the baby herself.
Also, we dont really know Rena's true intentions since she didnt justify her actions, nor are we Rena herself, right?
Well, heres something I'd want to say:
At some point, you said something like: In this case, "nothing is impossible" can be applied.
So doesn't that mean that it is possible that even if the baby wasn't Arika, the gem might be intended for Arika instead of that baby?
One could also argue that the gem was merely used as a safeguard to protect the baby on the journey, and not meant for the baby herself.
Also, we dont really know Rena's true intentions since she didnt justify her actions, nor are we Rena herself, right?
Too true, suddenly i feel like a waste of time debating this. Wahahaha. Really, I am serious, there are just too many possibilities.
There is only 1 capsule to be exact...there was no indication that there were 2 capsule.
Actually, I thought there was. I thought Nina was also put in a capsule, to drift downstream to Artai. If you are then correct in what you say that would make Nina the baby in that capsule. After all, there has been no actual indication how either Mashiro or Arika got away from the castle. I find it very probable that there was more that one capsule, but as you say, there are no direct indications pointing to it. We can only interpret what little information we have.
Well, heres something I'd want to say:
At some point, you said something like: In this case, "nothing is impossible" can be applied.
So doesn't that mean that it is possible that even if the baby wasn't Arika, the gem might be intended for Arika instead of that baby?
One could also argue that the gem was merely used as a safeguard to protect the baby on the journey, and not meant for the baby herself.
Also, we dont really know Rena's true intentions since she didnt justify her actions, nor are we Rena herself, right?
Heh, I adressed that also in a previous post. Look at it this way, while we cannot operate on fact, we can operate on simple human logic, which is still a lot better than assumptions. If Rena wanted to give the gem to Arika, why should she give it to the baby in the capsule, if indeed that baby was not Arika, how could the gem have ever got to her? If Rena wanted to give the gem to Arika, she would have done. However, you are quite correct, we do not know what Rena intended, we can only make good, logical guesses until we get something solid from Sunrise.
Your argument falls apart at the seems unless we assume that someone was waiting for the baby, that could be trusted to take the gem, since a baby is a poor postal worker. There are not so many different paths to the current point, but only many possibilities how each one went about.
Hmm, I thought the 'other side of the argument' was using Rena's intentions as a base for the point they were trying to make. Now you admit that we cannot do anything more than make assumptions about her motives? We can of course make very reasonable guesses as to what she meant to do. If she gave the gem to the baby, I assume that she meant the baby to have it. If that baby was not Arika, and she wished to get the gem to Arika, why should she give it to the baby?
As protection you say, what about the time it takes the gem to 'accept' a person? The gem wouldn't be of any good to just anyone straight away, making that particular point invalid.
Actually, I thought there was. I thought Nina was also put in a capsule, to drift downstream to Artai. If you are then correct in what you say that would make Nina the baby in that capsule. After all, there has been no actual indication how either Mashiro or Arika got away from the castle. I find it very probable that there was more that one capsule, but as you say, there are no direct indications pointing to it. We can only interpret what little information we have.
Heh, I adressed that also in a previous post. Look at it this way, while we cannot operate on fact, we can operate on simple human logic, which is still a lot better than assumptions. If Rena wanted to give the gem to Arika, why should she give it to the baby in the capsule, if indeed that baby was not Arika, how could the gem have ever got to her? If Rena wanted to give the gem to Arika, she would have done. However, you are quite correct, we do not know what Rena intended, we can only make good, logical guesses until we get something solid from Sunrise.
Ehh, I don't think we even know which baby was that in the capsule? Rena could have gave the gem to arika or either nina in the capsule. More likely the baby in the capsule might be arika. And yeah, nina was found in artai but there was no indication that nina drifted in the capsule.
Ehh, I don't think we even know which baby was that in the capsule? Rena could have gave the gem to arika or either nina in the capsule. More likely the baby in the capsule might be arika. And yeah, nina was found in artai but there was no indication that nina drifted in the capsule.
Hmm, I thought there was an indication? Ah well, I don't feel like rewatching all those episodes, perhaps someone with a better memory than mine could give us definite word? I don't think we can say that that baby being Arika is any more likely than not, unless you assume that Sunrise took the simple and predictable path or making her that baby. Doesn't sound a whole lot like Sunrise. Still, you are basing your views on one scene following another, the use of ellipsis can be misleading.
Hmm, I thought there was an indication? Ah well, I don't feel like rewatching all those episodes, perhaps someone with a better memory than mine could give us definite word? I don't think we can say that that baby being Arika is any more likely than not, unless you assume that Sunrise took the simple and predictable path or making her that baby. Doesn't sound a whole lot like Sunrise. Still, you are basing your views on one scene following another, the use of ellipsis can be misleading.
Yeah, somesort like that...maybe they use a simple way. Only 26 episodes...Too many unanswered question right now.
Yeah, somesort like that...maybe they use a simple way. Only 26 episodes...Too many unanswered question right now.
So the 26 episodes were confirmed then? Hmm, plenty of unanswered questions, but 14 episodes to answer them in.
Anime Adoru
2006-01-01, 12:07
I'd love to see you write a Nina character review... somewhat like you did in this post already, I guess. But I'm sure people will be all over it if you don't support it with specific references to events in the series as opposed to "general knowledge" and your reading of her :-)
Actually, I'd like to see a character review from you as well. Don't worry, I won't come down so hard on you about it. x.x I might follow it up with one of my own, I always love to see what people think of characters, and compare them with my own opinions. If I see something I disagree strongly about, I reply, and treat it as something I disagree about, but never mean to offend as I must do in some cases.
I don't really have a good handle on Nina. What I see seems overlaid by her father complex, and I'm not even sure I understand that one. Is she unsure to her acceptance? In fear of loosing him? Why is she obsessed with pleasing him?
I guess I should reread your posts as well as rewatch some of the episodes.
Maybe this can be done jointly. What are the most distinguishing features of Nina? Intelligence? Sense of duty? Father complex?
I don't really have a good handle on Nina. What I see seems overlaid by her father complex, and I'm not even sure I understand that one. Is she unsure to her acceptance? In fear of loosing him? Why is she obsessed with pleasing him?
I guess I should reread your posts as well as rewatch some of the episodes.
Maybe this can be done jointly. What are the most distinguishing features of Nina? Intelligence? Sense of duty? Father complex?
Hmm.. her distinguishing features.. now thats a tricky one..
Well, lets start with the ever present, obvious to us, blatant, so-called 'father complex'. When a person suffers from as long as their earliest memories for 9 years, and are then, for the first time in their memories, given a new life by a single person, a person who shows them kindness, love and provides for them a family, however small it might be, of which they think they have never had any of before, they are going to develop very strong affections for this person, unavoidably. I, went through this in quite a lot of detail in a previous post, so I'll keep the remainder brief.. well, sort of..
The classic 'long-term single child gets sibling' example can be used here. Nina fears she is replaceable in Sergei's mind. Now, however ridiculous this may seem to us, an adoptive father like Sergei just doesn't suddenly dump a person they treat as their own daughter, Nina still fears this. Every person that gets close to Sergei she is worried by. She fears that he may find someone else, and it could reduce the amount of feelings he has for her. Like, hmm.. that Sergei only had a certain amount of affection to hand around, Nina wants 100% of this, and she fears, say, Arika or Rena could get a percentage of that, taking it from her, and perhaps making Sergei get bored of her and end up ignoring her.
This may seem like pure stupidity to us, but we have to remember what Nina suffered from her earliest days. The youth is what forms a person, especially the earliest years. Nina never had anyone else, never had anyone to love or anyone to love and care for her. Living on the streets, stealing food to survive and no doubt hated by those she stole from. This may seem stupid, but forming bonds with someone is a requirement that humans have, if you don't experience such feelings, you do not know how they feel, and cannot. Now, if being the dregs of society wasn't bad enough for a person..
Since Nina never experienced any of these feelings until she was 9 years old, however a small length of time this may seem in a person's lifetime, she can't possibly know what each type of affection feels like. Sergei was the only person to love her, so Nina only loves Sergei. Being in love with one person, and only one person, and only ever one person, it is impossible to classify the feelings you have for them. What does she feel? Family love? Romantic love? Who knows, and she most certainly doesn't either.
This is why just having friends like Arika, Erstin or Irina is so crucial. One loves ones very best friends, with a special type of love for that purpose. It isn't romantic love, or family love, but people do feel love for your very best friends. If Nina experiences this respective type of love, and perhaps romantic love (if what she feels for Sergei is not romantic love, saying that it isn't for sure would be a biased, blind assumption) (you know who I've got my eye on for this place ;) ) she will be able to classify her feelings for Sergei, and change the way she acts because of this, over a long length of time of course.
Ugh.. so much for keeping it brief.. well, excuse my spellings, etc, I just had a lamp dropped on my head from a considerable height. Right.. other features..
Her intelligence. Now that is tricky. Well, lets seperate intelligence down a bit. Knowledge is usually a prerequisite of intelligence, and competence a product of intelligence. Where does her knowledge lie? Certinely not in the aspects of family life or social lives. In the political side of things? Perhaps, but we do not know much more than the fact she has a general idea of what is going on, and is down to earth about it. A pessimistic view is always the best way to go about looking at politics. Not a happy-go-lucky view, after all. I think the way society operates is more her forte. She understands an Otome's place, their place in society, and the way they should behave. However, she doesn't question it. This is usually not a good thing. She knows what to do in a certain social status person's presence.
Sense of duty? Mm, perhaps. But her sense of duty is again corrupted by her feelings for Sergei.
Urrrrgg.. I'm not doing very well.. I feel ill, and I don't think I'm putting things the way I would like to.. tell me what you think.
EDIT: Ok.. I wrote much more than I intended to.. um.. this is supposedly an Arika thread.. so.. you use MSN? We could perhaps come up with that joint character review. Hmm, the way I see Nina is in no way hindered by her feelings for her adoptive father, but thats probably because I understand (or think I understand) why she is like that. You could probably say Nina is my favourite character because I find her case so interesting, and enjoy trying to break the way she is down into written form in an attempt to understand her. Thats what studying media does to your head. :heh:
So the 26 episodes were confirmed then? Hmm, plenty of unanswered questions, but 14 episodes to answer them in.
Yeah, but the next episode is about akane not the history or background of any character...So that is left with 13 episodes. I just can't wait.
Heh, I adressed that also in a previous post. Look at it this way, while we cannot operate on fact, we can operate on simple human logic, which is still a lot better than assumptions. If Rena wanted to give the gem to Arika, why should she give it to the baby in the capsule, if indeed that baby was not Arika, how could the gem have ever got to her? If Rena wanted to give the gem to Arika, she would have done. However, you are quite correct, we do not know what Rena intended, we can only make good, logical guesses until we get something solid from Sunrise.
Wait, so that means that the logic that Arika was the baby in the capsule (which is alot more of a simple human logic that Nina being in the capsule) is wrong? Well, you contradict yourself when you said:
while we cannot operate on fact, we can operate on simple human logic.
And the human logic of Arika being the baby in the capsule is ALOT MORE simpler than Nina being the baby. no?:eyebrow:
I do however, agree that Arika being the baby in the capsule merely as a presumption, and not fact.
Your argument falls apart at the seems unless we assume that someone was waiting for the baby, that could be trusted to take the gem, since a baby is a poor postal worker. There are not so many different paths to the current point, but only many possibilities how each one went about.
Question then: If you sent your soldiers to look for the person who has the gem, would a baby or a man riding a horse be more suspicious? the rider, of course. the baby would catch less attention, no?:eyespin:
Hmm, I thought the 'other side of the argument' was using Rena's intentions as a base for the point they were trying to make. Now you admit that we cannot do anything more than make assumptions about her motives? We can of course make very reasonable guesses as to what she meant to do. If she gave the gem to the baby, I assume that she meant the baby to have it. If that baby was not Arika, and she wished to get the gem to Arika, why should she give it to the baby? .
As stated above, a baby is alot less suspicious than a horse rider.
I didnt say anything about not being able to make assumptions, but you were the one who disagree with the topic starter's point of Arika being the baby as a fact, which I agree. But that also means that the assumption can be made, and by far less complicated human logic, isnt it?
As protection you say, what about the time it takes the gem to 'accept' a person? The gem wouldn't be of any good to just anyone straight away, making that particular point invalid.
Well, was it stated that the gem needs to accept a person in order to protect her? if like you say, it has enough of a mind to accept a person using it, surely it'd have a mind to protect a mere baby, no? One could also argue that Rena gave orders to the gem to protect the baby. (its Rena's gem afterall).
Anime Adoru
2006-01-03, 10:38
Regarding Nina...
Well, lets start with the ever present, obvious to us, blatant, so-called 'father complex'. When a person suffers from as long as their earliest memories for 9 years, and are then, for the first time in their memories, given a new life by a single person, a person who shows them kindness, love and provides for them a family, however small it might be, of which they think they have never had any of before, they are going to develop very strong affections for this person, unavoidably.
So father complex was a poor word. I think your explanations of Nina's experiences explain well why she is the serious person we see. She has seen much harm and neglect in life.
The father thing really seems to have two parts.
(1) A desire by Nina to be generally recognized and valued by her father as a child. We can take her school efforts etc. as an indicator of that.
(2) A desire by Nina to take a place in her fathers heart that she thinks belonged or still belongs to Rena. As early as episode 3 she says stuff to Arika like "if you really are the heir to the sapphire gem, then..." (I need to defeat you...) So she seems to want to overcome and be better than anything Rena. Is this just platonic love or is this assumed physical love as she seems to confess to Arika to have for Sergey in episode 11?
On two sidenotes:
(1) Is it Nina Wong or Wang?
(2) What's it with this blood running down the forehead that Sergey and Arika seem to have in common? This is a flashback in the showfight Nina has in episode 3.
Her intelligence. Now that is tricky. Well, lets seperate intelligence down a bit. Knowledge is usually a prerequisite of intelligence, and competence a product of intelligence. Where does her knowledge lie? Certinely not in the aspects of family life or social lives. In the political side of things? Perhaps, but we do not know much more than the fact she has a general idea of what is going on, and is down to earth about it.
Well, she is good at school and always seems to get political references. So I think this is they analytical/knowledge type of intelligence, not so much social intelligence. This isn't to say she isn't smart socially, but it is probably fair to say she isn't very outgoing.
Tremalkinger
2006-01-03, 12:18
(1) Is it Nina Wong or Wang?
It's Nina Wàng. While using your basic alphanumerics, the closest pronounciation to that is Nina Wong, but Wong is slightly different than Wàng.
It's definately NOT 'Wang'. Wang means something else entirely :heh:
Anh_Minh
2006-01-03, 12:41
Regarding Nina...
So father complex was a poor word. I think your explanations of Nina's experiences explain well why she is the serious person we see. She has seen much harm and neglect in life.
The father thing really seems to have two parts.
(1) A desire by Nina to be generally recognized and valued by her father as a child. We can take her school efforts etc. as an indicator of that.
(2) A desire by Nina to take a place in her fathers heart that she thinks belonged or still belongs to Rena. As early as episode 3 she says stuff to Arika like "if you really are the heir to the sapphire gem, then..." (I need to defeat you...) So she seems to want to overcome and be better than anything Rena. Is this just platonic love or is this assumed physical love as she seems to confess to Arika to have for Sergey in episode 11?
Hm. I think there's also (and maybe that's the most important part) fear of being abandonned (again?). Maybe she thinks that Sergey took her in as a kind of replacement for Rena, because he was lonely. But should a better "replacement" come along (like Rena's own daughter), Nina's afraid he won't need her anymore and will just forget about her.
And is Rena's daughter Sergey's? In which case, Nina'd be a substitute for his own daughter, which'd make even more sense.
Anime Adoru
2006-01-03, 12:57
And is Rena's daughter Sergey's? In which case, Nina'd be a substitute for his own daughter, which'd make even more sense.
There was a thread some time ago that got stuck on these questions. Basically, Sergey is too young to be the physical father of either Nina or Arika. (Episode 1 shows him an adolescent when the princess got missing.)
Still, I can't believe Sunrise doesn't want to communicate something with the way the blood runs down on Arika's face in episode 3 and how Sergey or Sergey-look-alike has this blood running down his forehead too. It suggests a genetic relationship, but outside of wild speculations, I don't know what that might be.
Well, what about Arika is Rena's daughter and Rena and Sergey are relatives? Did we discuss this somewhere? Sounds difficult though.
Akuma-sama
2006-01-03, 16:27
It's definately NOT 'Wang'. Wang means something else entirely :heh:
Dunno, "Major Wang" kinda has a nice ring to it, don't you think? :heh:
Maybe there aughta be a Character review: Nina Wàng thread? *pokes catgirls*
Catgirls
2006-01-03, 17:03
Maybe there aughta be a Character review: Nina Wàng thread? *pokes catgirls*It's not really up to me. :) Nina is my least favorite character and I hope she’s snuffed out in Ep. #13. But…are there enough off-topic Nina posts in this thread to make a new thread? If not, does anyone want to do a well written, spell checked, grammar checked, detailed dissection of Nina’s character?
Does anyone have a Nina write up in the works? Anime Adoru...do you have anything cooking for Nina? If so, we could hold off on new thread until then. It’s up to you guys. I just make the coffee. :)
Nina is my least favorite character and I hope she’s snuffed out in Ep. #13.
Wow.. you like, say.. Shiho over Nina? Or [I]Maria[/I? O.o I've seen flame wars over MSN about who could take the piss out of Maria the best. (I didn't partake, I just suggested a cartoon was created of one the funnier sketches.. it was agreed but sadly never happened :( )There must be some serious hate going on here.. but I really don't see what there is to hate. I'm interested to hear.
I don't actually dislike Shiho.. she is more an interesting annoyance. Maria, eh.. some reason, I just don't like her.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-03, 18:33
I like Shiho in Mo more then i like her in MH. In MO she is funny with the whole maki maki and spiral thing. In MH she was just damn annoying. Nina is also around my least favorite characters. i would rank Shiho and Tomeo above. Way above her.
The following is something I wrote in a different thread. I don't usually quote my own quotes, but I think it's worth mentioning here since the topic of who Arika really is came up as well in this thread.
The content that was in another thread is written in blue.
It's all about tunnelvision. We all fall into that category. None have 360 vision, which is why these forums are here - to enlighten us with other points of view.
Inference is a great tool to draw upon for conclusions - as long as we realize that those conclusions are not always correct. Why? Inference is not based on facts; it is based on the interpretation of the facts we have available to draw our conclusion upon.
Thirty seconds into the first episode we see the king trying to protect the Queen - both dead upon the floor with an Aswald looking at their bodies. The irony here is that their supposed baby is not among them. There is no evidence of a child, nor is there one mentioned. Instead the search is for the Otome.
Rena, the Otome, is seen carrying a baby to the creek. The blue saphire crystals are no longer in Rena's ear. The pendant is around the baby's neck with the two stones encased.
Flashback: In episode 3, Sergey sees Rena hold the child. The child is playing with the pendant that already has the stones within. Already Rena lost her otome status. Naturally, the Queen, Rena's old friend (?), stands beside her. In the same episode, Nina is reminded of photos of Sergey and Rena together.
In the support letter to Natsuki, Sergey admits of knowing Arika's mother. He also knows of her birthday without Arika or any of her friends telling him. In fact, the calendar has an ant drawn in on Sept 7.
Let's remember that Sergey did not at first recognize who Arika was, even though he called her 'Antsy' as she reminded him of someone he knew once. It was only after he saw the pendant that he knew that Arika was indeed Rena's child. ('Arika' and 'ant' are similarly pronounced in Japanese. The latter sounds like 'Arenka,' I think.)
Because of the 'Antsy' comment, I would conclude that Sergey knew Rena had a daughter named 'Arika' and that Arika was born on Sept 7. I don't think it was a coincidence that an ant was drawn in the daybook. That ant was probably there long before he met Arika.
His conclusion about this Arika may or may not be valid, unless he somehow knew that the pendant was placed around Arika's neck during the time of the castle's attack. Even though the names and birthdays match, it's the only association that he can make to tie Arika to Rena. Facial recognition certainly isn't one of them. Children separated from their parents often do not grow the facial similarities that their parents had.
Arika knows that she is the daughter of an otome. It is what her 'grandmother' tells her. Since the grandmother is depicted as one of sound mind and judgment, there is not reason for this to be a lie. In addition, the fact that Arika could reach out and grasp the pendant to play with it, ensures that she is not a new born. There is no way that any close individuals to Arika would not know of her birthday. It's a big thing for an otome to loose her abilities. For the same reason, the castle was most likely attacked because Rena no longer could protect it. As per episode 1, this was no news to the Aswald. And I would certainly think that this was no news to the 'grandmother.' I would also think that a contingency plan was in effect in case something would happen to her or her king and queen.
And, yet, I find the very fact of Rena's grandmother not ever mentioning Arika's mother's name quite disturbing. It leaves a lot of questions unanswered.
So who is Arika? The queen? Possible, but only if the king is her father and Rena was a surrogate mother of some kind. But this is speculation. No fact dictates an inference that points towards Arika being a princess. It is more likely that Mashiro or Nina is. Yes, Mashiro because SUNRISE keeps trying to make us think that she's not. So, just because of that, Mashiro may actually be the actual queen. On the other hand, Nina grew up in an orphonage. Which means she has no known parents. Yet there is still a connection to the palace, for when Surgey picked her up six years ago, Mashiro's good 'old' maid, Aoi, was there as well, standing by the door.
No, how about the fact that Arika's hair isn't black. Someone pointed that out once.
Given that if you dyed Arika's hair black she would look exactly like Rena, I think that it is very probable that she is Rena's daughter, and I don't the King was the father.
And as Preston so diligantly mentioned, genetics is an odd Science. It implies that under certain circumstance recessive genes can become dominant, and dormant genes can become recessive. Just because she does not have black hair does not imply that Arika is not Rena's daughter. It does, however, lower the probability.
Well, here's some food for thought: Perhaps Arika is Mai's daughter instead? The haircolour matches...
Catgirls
2006-01-03, 19:20
Wow.. you like, say.. Shiho over Nina? My thoughts will have to wait. This should be a thread is about Arika Yumemiya; not Nina or anyone else. ;) :p
Edit: Hmm...there seems to be enough stuff in this thread to split it out and start a Nina thread. Maybe use this post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=430847&postcount=41) by Preston to anchor it.
ZippyDSM
2006-01-03, 19:50
yickes is it hot in here or what? *L*
for what Anime Adoru said in his/her frist post is more or elss correct its what the anime has more or less showen us can they change it yes is it likely no.
Arika is a child of a otome sicne the gem started up the nanomachines she got from her mother in ep 1,might have burnt them out sicne they didnt say anything about that when she was scanned no one mention anything about female children being more adated at becoemign a otome it seems likely but I dont have any proof,also the manga couldanswer soem of this could it not?
Preston has some good points but I have pretty much made my mind up that arika is everything Anime Adoru says she is becuse its what the anime has showen us.
Preston make a Character review: Nina Wàng thread already ^^
would love to read that thread ^^
Preston make a Character review: Nina Wàng thread already ^^
would love to read that thread ^^
My free time is about to take one giant hit as the end of my holidays draws near.. and I am having great fun spending the last free hours on my PC on Vampire: Bloodlines.. but I'll look into starting a thread.. that is, if people don't mind a slight regurgitation of some of my previous posts. I would love to hear other people's opinions of Nina, no matter how derogatorily they look at her, but that can be saved for the thread.
Tempest35
2006-01-04, 17:18
Man Preston, when you make a splash, you don't go for some Olympic Dive splash, you go for a cannon ball...:heh: lol I tried to catch up on the last *few* posts and well...I feel like I'm doing a term paper with all this reading. ^^ Although, this I will admit: Preston, you do some 'heavy' style posts. I'm referring to writing style, not to any info or anything like that. The way certain phrases are written can seem to be a bit...aggressive at times to others who read them. *shrugs* I don't find a problem with it personally - I just take it as it comes - but I was just considering what other people might be thinking while reading...anyway...
My many thoughts on Nina will wait until I get all my 'Arinko' thoughts out of me. I really like all the Coral girls, for different reasons but Nina, Arika, and Irina stand out a lot for me.
In Arika's case quite simply, I love the girl. She's just what that Otome-centered world needs - a good, loud wake-up call. She's found a dream and is doing all she can to achieve it and she has a lot of good people behind her to help her out (of course there are those who can and will hurt her too). She's a walking 'timebomb' that may go off in the eyes of many people. What she knows, or maybe more appropiately, who she really is, may flip the balances of power across the world. At the very least, she'll turn a few people inside out with her 'unorthodox' way of living. ^^;
I like characters that create a big stir just by acting the way they normally do, against the set social norms that their society(-ies) insists they must follow. She's extremely lucky that she has good (and powerful) people at her back who can do things that she can't do otherwise or understand.
I gotta hand it to Sergey, doing all this for her. Whether or not he's really doing to to score brownie points with Arika's 'mum' or just keeping an eye on the pendant remains to be seen but I like to think that maybe his reasons for sponsoring Arika in the first place change from being Rena-centric to more of a genuine liking of the girl (NOT in the romantic way). Those two argue like an older brother-younger sister pair or even cousins - it's fun to watch them go at each other like that.
Of course it doesn't beat the interactions between Arika and Nina. :D I can imagine those two becoming 'sisters' at the end of the show.
It's been debated to death, resurrected, and beaten to death again as to what all the implications of her pendant (does it mean she's Rena's daughter or the true heir to Windbloom's royalty), her apparant ease in how she accepts the nanos inside her body, and of course, her personality quirks. I think we may forget that this IS Arika's first time being this distant away from her home, she has no 'family' to speak of and she had absolutely no friends at the beginning of Otome (if one doesn't count the local wildlife). Her friendships with Nina, Erstin, Irina and the others may be her first REAL friendships with girls of her own age in her life. We don't know about her previous 14 years - whether or not she grew up in a village or on a 'little house on the prairie'. Arika maybe as new to the entire 'friendship with other people' deal as Nina apparently is. :D
As for if she's the true princess or Rena's true daughter, I really don't think it will matter to her. Arika is Arika and she'll do what Arika wants - which is to become an Otome. If she is the true princess, she might have to think about that for a while but she may just abicate her status as 'heir' to Mashiro - we've all seen what she thinks of acting all proper and 'queenly'. ^^
She's shaping up to be a great character in her own right and I hope that she lives up to the potential that she has (Sunrise pending :D). Anyway, those are my thoughts, such as they are for now.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-07, 01:51
Regardless of what we argue it's pretty safe to assume that Arika was set as the successor to the blue gem. I mean their not gonna have the whole series focus on Arika doing this and that with the blue gem which in early episodes popped out and actually protected her and then all of a sudden say, "sorry but the gem actually belongs to Mashiro" :heh: To me the gem represents whats left of her mother who protects her when needed. Perhaps when she died at Rad's hands a piece of her absorbed into the gem when it was shining right afterwards.
The birthdates I believe are set in stone and will not change.
But of course not enough evidence is there to set in stone whose whose daughter. Geeze they have technology, if they have nanomachines they can simply use DNA testings (At least to see any relations between the girls). Speaking of which, Arika had no problems with the nano insertion which was surprising to the doc, perhaps an inherited trait from her mother.
BTW, did Arika appeared in Mai Hime? She looked familiar when I saw the first episode.
TruongDinh
2006-01-07, 02:41
BTW, did Arika appeared in Mai Hime? She looked familiar when I saw the first episode. Arika appeared for a few second in the last episode of Mai Hime.
Regardless of what we argue it's pretty safe to assume that Arika was set as the successor to the blue gem. I mean their not gonna have the whole series focus on Arika doing this and that with the blue gem which in early episodes popped out and actually protected her and then all of a sudden say, "sorry but the gem actually belongs to Mashiro" :heh: To me the gem represents whats left of her mother who protects her when needed. Perhaps when she died at Rad's hands a piece of her absorbed into the gem when it was shining right afterwards.
The birthdates I believe are set in stone and will not change.
But of course not enough evidence is there to set in stone whose whose daughter. Geeze they have technology, if they have nanomachines they can simply use DNA testings (At least to see any relations between the girls). Speaking of which, Arika had no problems with the nano insertion which was surprising to the doc, perhaps an inherited trait from her mother.
BTW, did Arika appeared in Mai Hime? She looked familiar when I saw the first episode.
Couldn't agree more with you. But about the piece of Rena absorbed into the gem when she died...do you meant that the piece is her "Power"?....Or her wishes?
Anime Adoru
2006-01-07, 11:35
Couldn't agree more with you. But about the piece of Rena absorbed into the gem when she died...do you meant that the piece is her "Power"?....Or her wishes?
Yeah, that scene was confusing. So, Rado said "this is what happens when you loose the power of an otome". Thus, Rena had already lost her nanomachine powers? Then he kills here, and we see the pendant on the baby glow, as if activated or something is returned to it. So Rena despite having - what? lost her powers? - still had something left that was relevant to the nano machine.
On that account, such pendants were only for pillars or also regular meisters? Did we ever see Shizuru's or Haruka's? Gee, I should start rewatching stuff :-)
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-07, 12:33
Couldn't agree more with you. But about the piece of Rena absorbed into the gem when she died...do you meant that the piece is her "Power"?....Or her wishes?
I think the Gems are more than just "gems" that activates the nanomachines. Especially the part where it was stated that even if you removed the gems the contract between the two still exists...though now I'm confused because the king was killed and Rena was still running around. Anyho I still believe that when she died there was still some connection between the gem and her.
It could also go that the gem realized that it's original owner had died and that it was on her daughter's neck. Hence, the reason why the gem activates at times when Arika is in danger because it is protecting it's master's daughter.
Yeah, that scene was confusing. So, Rado said "this is what happens when you loose the power of an otome". Thus, Rena had already lost her nanomachine powers? Then he kills here, and we see the pendant on the baby glow, as if activated or something is returned to it. So Rena despite having - what? lost her powers? - still had something left that was relevant to the nano machine.
Sergay said that the Otome had retired, hence she probably had a kid, if you have a kid then those nanomachines will die out because you create anti-bodies thanks to the Y thingy.
ZeusIrae
2006-01-07, 13:33
Regardless of what we argue it's pretty safe to assume that Arika was set as the successor to the blue gem. I mean their not gonna have the whole series focus on Arika doing this and that with the blue gem which in early episodes popped out and actually protected her and then all of a sudden say, "sorry but the gem actually belongs to Mashiro" :heh: To me the gem represents whats left of her mother who protects her when needed. Perhaps when she died at Rad's hands a piece of her absorbed into the gem when it was shining right afterwards.
Who knows?They could pull a FF7-type ending,after more than 15h of game you realize that the main character is just a looser who doesn't have much to do with the story and got here almost by accident.
It would be intresting but we know that Arika's mother was an Otome so unless there's some big player manipulating the informations we only have a limited number of choices.
Yeah, that scene was confusing. So, Rado said "this is what happens when you loose the power of an otome". Thus, Rena had already lost her nanomachine powers? Then he kills here, and we see the pendant on the baby glow, as if activated or something is returned to it. So Rena despite having - what? lost her powers? - still had something left that was relevant to the nano machine.
On that account, such pendants were only for pillars or also regular meisters? Did we ever see Shizuru's or Haruka's? Gee, I should start rewatching stuff :-)
If I am not wrong all meister have it. The earrings came from the pendant like what we have seen from episode 7 when arika got the earrings. However, I have not seen haruka's nor shizuru pendant to confirm if this is the true fact.
Tempest35
2006-01-08, 17:55
The pendant is for the heir of Windbloom - it's not an Otome artifact. Otome only need their respective earring jewels to work the materializations. The pendant 'somehow' amplifies any old Earthian technology within specific parameters and apparently this extends to the nanomachines used by Garderobe.
I have a few ideas off of that but this isn't the thread for them, gomen. ^^;
One more thing about Arika.
Her friends at least think she is obsessed about Erstin's purupuru boobies. Bet Mashiro wishes she was had a rack like hers.:D
Anime Adoru
2006-01-09, 06:36
One more thing about Arika.
Her friends at least think she is obsessed about Erstin's purupuru boobies. Bet Mashiro wishes she was had a rack like hers.:D
Uhh... In the hiking episode, she was kind of surprised/flabbergasted when she saw them (when washing Erstin), but where do Arika's friends comment on her relationship with Erstin's boobs? :)
Anime Adoru
2006-01-09, 06:46
Uhh... In the hiking episode, she was kind of surprised/flabbergasted when she saw them (when washing Erstin), but where do Arika's friends comment on her relationship with Erstin's boobs? :)
Oops... don't bother, I forgot it was right under my nose: In the beginning of episode 13 Irina comments on Arika in this respect...
ZippyDSM
2006-01-17, 17:04
Point out the breast obsessen eps,amm I recall is a comment that arika was not happy and bouncey like eris's breasts *L*
well in ep 14 we know whos the princess is 0-o *L*
ah so thats how spoiler tags work....sorry ><
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