Overall rating for SHUFFLE!

[Pellissier]

Ok, now that the anime series have finished, I have thought to open this poll to know how people would averagely judge Shuffle. If you wanna do a brief review as well, feel welcome ^^ , just be polite, have fun, and try to be constructive by explaining the why part of your choice, and not only the how. You know, the more detailed is your opinion, the more value it acquires ;)

You will have ten options:

Perfect 10
9 out of 10
8 out of 10
7 out of 10
6 out of 10
5 out of 10
4 out of 10
3 out of 10
2 out of 10
1 out of 10

Of course 1 vote is allowed and the poll will be open so that you will be able to see how the others voted.

I thought to do this since I see alternatively very high and very low rates around, for this series. And I was wondering if with such a poll the truth could be a little better focused.
Of course, please keep in mind that being this a specific forum constituted of mostly SHUFFLE! fans, the average may result at the end a bit higher, than if the same pool would have been made on a true cross section of anime fans.

So, votes are open now :)

[Crimen Scythe]

8 out of 10...it did have its share of flaws and plotholes...but it was still good...so far it's the best harem ive ever seen...as for best anime...ive seen better...

[Shiroth]

9 for me.

I was waiting for the Shuffle anime for sometime before it started, and with that much hype it was everything i hoped for.

[AvatarST]

9.

Best b-game -> anime conversion I've watched personally, and it surprised me since I didn't have any expectation before watching it. I think it's great. I don't know if it's perfect, nor I care, but I know I loved it.

I didn't give it 10 because, well, I don't give anything 10s, heh.

Canvas 2 is giving it some stiff competition though, so maybe by the time Canvas 2 ends, that will be a 9 and this an 8, if only to differentiate them. But as of now that's the rating I'll give it.

[Asa-Fan]

For me it's 10 it's the best anime I've ever seen :love:
(waching air right now xD)

[Apekatt]

I give it a 8.
Some parts of the story deserve a higher rating (Kaede arc and some earlier episodes) while Sia's second arc and the entire thing with Asa in the end felt pretty weak. Overall I still think Shuffle is the best harem-anime I've ever seen. Managed to be both funny and serious at the same time!!

[npal]

I'll give it 7. My reasoning for that was in another thread. The crappy ending animation subtracted some, but the KaedexSia credit scene was too good, so it's back at 7.

[Altima of the Gates]

I'll give it an 8. I believe like some others that there were some plot development and character development problems toward the end, but overall it was a good ride while it lasted. I've never argued so much over an anime than i have this one, made new forum buddies so that was a plus. :)

[Maids! Maids! Maids!]

I gave it a nine as there was no option for 8.5. I rounded up, because if I had all decimal places at my disposal, I probably would have given it an 8.75 (A-). It had its hills and valleys, but I looked forward to it every week, I developed real affection for the characters, and I had a great time discussing it here.

[Vexx]

8 here.... it would have been a 10 had the Kaede finish and Asa-Rin arc been written in a manner more consistent with their established behaviors.

The last episode takes a bit of a hit because although I really liked some of the chibi effects, the hyperdeformation of sensei, Mayumi, and Primula was painful ... and I got tired of the massive use of "paper cutouts on a stick" walking technique to save on animation.

The last half of the ep24 attempts to establish a new set of orbits where Asa (as Kikyou says, "pulls his strings") permits access to RIn because she willing to permit the situation to be tested and she loves her friends ... Kaede is being led on a bit (Asa says its okay to keep loving Rin ... wtf??) and Sia openly waves the polygamy banner. I'm not sure why Nerine is treating Rin as anymore than a good friend. What am I saying? A lot of the motivation here is just a bit odd unless Asa is really okay with sharing.

Interesting start, great middle eps comedy, fabulous drama in Kaede arc and Nerine/Primula arc, ...Rin's repetitive use of girl's names, overuse of the dumb Idol Teams rather than character development of the main characters, Sia's eps (all of them, so many) were well done. Nerine got the short end of the "time stick" on screen with Rin. Short summary: better than average true harem anime with a splotchy finish. Definitely worth a rewatch.

[demon_god04]

Shuffle! gets an 8 for me, the ending of the kaede arc could have been alot better and I thought it was leading up to something a bit more then just a calm little chat between kaede and Asa given what happened the night before...

The Asa arc could have been better... probly would have been if I didnt hit those damned spoiler tags:heh: Since its not human nature to blame ones self im holding all of you responsible!:p :heh:

This series would have been a 7.5 if I can use decimals but I decided that the extra .5 was worth it to me because its not the childhood friend that wins this time:heh:

[Squid]

I voted for 8 out of 10. There were some episodes I disliked, but most of the time it was as good as always. The last episodes were the best I think, and probably one of the strangest turnings in a story I've ever seen (Comedy > Drama).

Overall, a very good Anime that I recommend to everyone. :D

[Furudanuki]

I'm going to give Shuffle! and overall rating of 8, though I would go with an 8.5 if that was an option.

The series definitely wasn't perfect - too much time wasted early on that could have been used for the meatier portions of the plot. Shuffle! had some great potential that was not completely realized and the quality of the animation was inconsistant to put it nicely, but there were parts of this series that greatly exceeded my initial expectations - Kaede's arc generated a lot of buzz, but it was hardly the first or only stand-out moment. I have no real complaints about where the show wound up, but I think a smoother job could have been done getting from point A to point B. However, this seems to be a standard practice for this genre of anime in general, so Shuffle! is far from being alone that regard.

But in terms of my own personal enjoyment, Shuffle! has been first class. I don't require an anime to be a critical masterpiece in order to enjoy it! Guilty pleasures are the best sometimes. And I will be watching Shuffle! again.

[Sian]

i'll give it an 8

as others said it had it's good and bad times ... and some problems keeping on the track doing Keades and the first part of Asa's arcs (18-22) but other than that it was generaly good storywise so for that they get a 8

animationwise there was quite a few errors and simplyfications that shouldn't have been there (asa and rin at the river springs to mind) and otherwise there was nothing groundbreaking about the rest of the animations other than the use of the arrows, so they only get a 6 for that

characterwise it was very believeable even though the flaws here and there ... and it was generaly very deep characters for everyone (even though i think that Primula have borrowed a rather big part from Ruri Hoshino) so a 9 for that one

and then at last i think it is highly rewacth value ... which is more than i can say about pretty much every Harem anime i have seen ealier ... so ... 9 for that one

[Xellos-_^]

I voted 8 but it should be a 8.5.

Don't feel like writing a essay so i will be brief

I like characters and story while it has some holes is still enjoyable. The music was great, I like th eanime op more then the game myself. And the animation was good nothing groundbreaking but solid.

[Kuro]

4/10. I'm not very fond of harem anime. And even as a harem anime, Shuffle sucked. It's only highlight was the brief Kaede arc, Primula and that little kiss at the end of the series. Everything else about it made me gag.

[Pellissier]

It's an 8 from me too.
But I'm being lenient since in my book it would actually score a 7.5/10, for the following reasons.

Animation 8: overall pretty good, the character design is quite appealing but not excellent. Major fall down in last episode causes 1 point loss.

Sound 8: There's a mixture in all of its factors. Bgms: some are the lamest ever seen (typical of an hentai game, tough), some others are interesting. VA: not top notch, I didn't like some dubbing, IE Sia, imho annoying, but I did like other performances such as Asa, Ama and Kaede (+ Nerine while singing). OP theme scores a lot of point, ED scores a bit less but it's still good. Overall I feel like shaking it all and give an 8.

Story 5: the toughest one to judge! Well, a major penalization is due to the first 11 episodes, ok the lightness, but they were way too light. Primula arc enhances the score, Kaede arc would do the same if it wasn't left at half way. While for Nerine they give you enough clues on her future, it's not the same for Sia, whom is left without an adress (polygamy? .. Do me the favor, authors :eyebrow: ). Asa route is taken to an end, but it's an unsatisfying end. And by the way, why couldn't she use magic? I'm still waiting, dear my authors.. if an innovative ending would really just mean "cutting protagonist wrists" then meh :uhoh: .. anime world would be quite ill, to say the truth.

Characters 8: overall a nice set of enjoyable characters. You do like them at the end, so they work. With their highs and their lows, they work.

Value 7: for the wasted potential they should be strangled. But anyway, they delivered an enjoyable product, and for being an harem anime, the result wasn't totally bad. I've seen better harem than this (first being Da Capo), but overall, I guess it's ok.

Enjoyment 9: not so easy to stay tuned in the first arc, but then it gets different, and since you don't know the plot will have a lot of holes, you throuroughly enjoy it step by step. Very low rewatchability, I guess.

As a sum I get a 45. 45/6 = 7.5 --> *me lenient --> 8 :)

[Lina Inverse]

It would've been better if they wouldn't have botched the ending badly, and if Rin wouldn't be such a spineless jerk :mad:
There are still a few minor detail flaws, like they messed up with Nerine's unfitting eye colour, or Sia looking too boring, or those ugly grey/black overknee socks instead of white ones, but nothing too serious.

Overall, it's still quite enjoyable, so I'll give it a 8/10 :D

[Kamui4356]

4/10. I'm not very fond of harem anime. And even as a harem anime, Shuffle sucked. It's only highlight was the brief Kaede arc, Primula and that little kiss at the end of the series. Everything else about it made me gag.
Which of course raises the question of why you watched the whole thing...:eyebrow: It might just be me, but I tend to stop watching series I don't like...

Anyway, I'd give it a 7. It was a good series, but not great. Quite a few problems came up with pacing, character development, animation, ect. Still a solid effort for the most part. Really a lot of the problems with it came from the need to include all the girls' stories, but that still doesn't mean they can be completely overlooked. It's a problem that occurs quite frequently in anime based on either ero-games or dating sims. However, Shuffle was an enjoyable series even with it's flaws, and that's what really counts.

[Vexx]

4/10. I'm not very fond of harem anime. And even as a harem anime, Shuffle sucked. It's only highlight was the brief Kaede arc, Primula and that little kiss at the end of the series. Everything else about it made me gag.

Hmmm, since you're not fond of harem anime to begin with .... just for clarification, name a harem anime that you consider "best of class" please. And just for notes, I don't consider Mahoraba, Canvas 2, or Suzuka to be "harem", rather just romance fiction.

[Crimen Scythe]

Hmmm, since you're not fond of harem anime to begin with .... just for clarification, name a harem anime that you consider "best of class" please. And just for notes, I don't consider Mahoraba, Canvas 2, or Suzuka to be "harem", rather just romance fiction.
and Shuffle! isnt romance fiction?

[Pellissier]

and Shuffle! isnt romance fiction?
Of course but it's still very different:

"Harem" means love from various sources towards an unique direction. (Asa-Primula-Kaede-Nerine-Sia ------> Rin)

"Romance" indicates either a mutual love between two sources (Aishiteruze Baby), either an unrequited love (Video Girl Ai), either a love triangle (Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, Suzuka), but all of these are way different from the concept of harem.

[Vexx]

Pell beat me to it... but "harem" is a subclass of "romance fiction". You know.. an apple is a fruit but not all fruits are apples?
I didn't want him naming a good series that *really* wasn't a harem love romance. Even Mahoraba I term a "false" harem because

its about one guy pursuing the love of many personalities in one girl

Canvas 2 at its heart is a love triangle ...
Ai Yori Aoshi is just barely a harem, really a love triangle (Aoi and Tina x Kaoru).

Shuffle! is a smack center harem anime with 5 or so girls aiming right for the hero's heart (rather than him really pursuing them).

[npal]

Well, since we're talking about harem, I kinda liked Futakoi. Although the only girls that did display different personalities were the original twins (can't remember the name) and Sara/Shoujyu twins. The other twins were identical in each pair in terms of behaviour. But I found that the main character, while a bit flawed, was decent enough to SPOT an error when he makes one. Rin on the other hand is always oblivious to how his actions hurt people, along with AAALL his other "virtues". And even if I wasn't thrilled with Futakoi's ending, it was ok, a form of typical harem ending, but ok nonetheless. But Shuffle... bleh :p The writers should be glad I liked Sia, Kaede and Primula enough to keep watching it :p

[Vexx]

Fut Alt's hero is one of the few anime leads I have almost no complaints about AND I like the fact the ending was most appropriate for that him and the twins (though the way it appeared to be ending for a while was powerful).

[npal]

No, I wasn't talking about the Alt, just Futakoi, that Nozomu kid or whatshisname. He was a decent lead, but he had his flaws, too.

Futakoi Alt's Rentarou was not just good, he was TOO good. And F.A's ending was more to my liking than Futakoi's although I wanted a more rich, detailed ending, you know, like the one in Shuffle, but in Fut Alt's case, it would have been well made to the end and be justifiable in every aspect (and no crappy animation either :p) .

[Sinestra]

i gave it 9 out 10 it was has made my list as one of my fav anime i love th charcters and the overall mood of the series i think the writers and the animators did a wonderful job it wasent your typical harem anime where the charcter cant make up his mind even at the end. i like the fact that the male lead made a decison i was a little let down by the ending but i did not hate it by any means. i love to see more but its over and life must move on

[Tatiana Razajev]

I'm giving the series a 9/10 over all. I enjoyed quite a bit. However it's not without its problems. Such as the fact some of the story arcs felt a bit rushed. Like the Lisianthus one near the end. Or the fact the animation took a dive in the second half of 24. I guess my actual score like others is somewhere between 8 and 9, but in my case close to 9. Still I did enjoy the over al progression of the story despite that. Also for a character who is supposed to be spineless. At least Rin made an actual choice and was willing to do something drastic for the sake of a very stubborn girl. I like Asa a lot and she's my favorite, but given how stubborn she can be in a certain regard. I fully understand Rin's decision in 24. Even if it was insane.

[Kuro]

Hmmm, since you're not fond of harem anime to begin with .... just for clarification, name a harem anime that you consider "best of class" please. And just for notes, I don't consider Mahoraba, Canvas 2, or Suzuka to be "harem", rather just romance fiction.

Love Hina, I could tolerate. Negima (the manga) was/is pretty good. Tenchi Muyo wasn't bad, either. Sister Princess, I REALLY liked.

[DragoonKain3]

I give it an 8, though really it's 7.5 rounded up. A very good romance show either lets you still feel for the couple even if that isn't exactly who you're rooting for (Kanon in my case), or makes you change the couple who you're rooting for (KGNE for me, countless times might I add), or just does a really good job in the 'feel good' department (Original To Heart). Shuffle failed for me in all three respects, which is odd because Shuffle is the only ero-based anime that i can recall in which I feel totally indifferent to the couple that 'won'.

Kaede and Nerine I can understand me feeling for them, as one is the childhood friend while the other is IMO the cutest girl in the show, but Sia as well? I think I would've enjoyed the show a lot more if they cut a little of Sia in the middle and put in a little bit more Asa, since no one can deny Sia had the most time in the show before the start of individual character arcs. If Asa had much more screen time in the beginning, rather than short snippets here and there, my score would be a lot higher. However, 3 out of 4 girls I can feel for? (Primula doesn't count, not much into lolicon XD) +2 points, since I rarely feel for girls other than the childhood friend.

However, Kaede arc was one of the most original and interesting (controversial even?) arcs I have seen in a while. Personal bias aside, no one can deny it generated the most discussion on Shuffle. Heck, it was so good it even made me doubt the Asa ending I was dreading, which I saw minor clues around eps 7 (was it?) and then I got dropped an anvil when I saw her encouragement being what gave Rin the courage to save Primula in her arc, which all but confirmed the ending to me. Keeping me guessing gives it a minimum of 4, but with Kaede's arc being so entertaining it's a 5.5 IMO.




For comparison's sake in recent seasons shows, I currently give Canvas 2 a 6.5. Sure it's still not done yet, and sure the couple I am rooting for seems to be winning (childhood friends to boot), but nothing so far is memorable. It's watchable and entertaining, but forgettable at the same time.

Suzuka on the other hand, I give maybe an 8.5, though it's still rising even when I only have watched the first 16 eps. At first, I couldn't get into the show, seeing as the title of the show is the name of one of the characters, which means it's pretty darn obvious who the guy is going to end up with (and not the one I was rooting for in the beginning). But after eps. 3, it doesn't matter knowing that. Remember the three criteria I mentioned in the beginning? So far, it's succeeding very well in all three, on top of the best lead character development I have seen in quite some time, something that is typical only of Shoujo manga/anime.

And since we're talking about it, I give Futakoi an 8. Very minor spoilers. Ending didn't really matter, since at beginning I wasn't thinking anyone would get together that young of an age and last. However, I liked it in the way that who the main guy liked was subtle, and it wasn't just a pair of twins. It's one specific person to be exact, which I didn't expect one bit since the show is about twins after all. Sure who he really likes (and how many) are arguable, but I have basis on my theory, which is all that matters to it being subtle.

The next season though I couldn't get much into, as it turned more into an action show more than anything. I get my dose of action in games, as action anime pales in comparison to that IMO. Thus, I can't give it much of a score.

[Nightengale]

I'm giving it a 6. Shuffle is undeniably one of the better harem animes out there, but it doesn't mean much.

Animation-wise, it was decent at best. There were some inconsistencies here and there, and it does some skippy style-shuffling at certain parts. Not to mention it didn't have the similar appeal as the original art in the game. Plus the quality gap between Episode 0 and the series was just too......obvious.

Seiyuu-wise. I personally Nerine and Sia weren't the best of choices. Only 2, but they were major players in the anime. Plus, I can't get over the fact of Nerine's horrible singing in Episode 1.

I honestly thought that the plot pogression was somewhat weak. Several scenarios seemed forced and hastened, killing off the suspence and mystery of some of the girl's backstory. The most well executed was argubly Kaede's and I'm being generous.

Comedy failed to amuse me. I never laughed at any Shuffle comedy scenes at all. Then again, I'm a hard guy to amuse.

However, I won't deny that is is a good conversion from an ero game to anime. So, a 6 from me.

Though, personally, Shuffle deserves negative 10 for having too little of Primula.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Gave it an 8, it's decent and I found it fun when I first found it. I would've given it a 7 for the ending but then again almost all of the endings in the anime that I have seen have never actually been that great to me. The show itself was great but seemed to have fallen in the last part so I chose to ignore that aspect and rate it as a whole.

Not to mention this is the first anime I've seen where the main guy doesn't end up with his childhood friend so it was a nice change.

Though, personally, Shuffle deserves negative 10 for having too little of Primula.

Well that pretty much sums up your whole argument :heh:

[Vegeta666]

9 out of 10.

If there was more romance between Rin and Asa then I could have forgotten about some of the flaws and given it a 10. Still a really good anime.

[Pellissier]

Well, since we're talking about harem, I kinda liked Futakoi. Although the only girls that did display different personalities were the original twins (can't remember the name) and Sara/Shoujyu twins. The other twins were identical in each pair in terms of behaviour. But I found that the main character, while a bit flawed, was decent enough to SPOT an error when he makes one.
Oh.. very cool! :)
That's another of my favourite harem around. And since it's kinda belonging to the "buried anime" cathegory I'm quite happy when I hear of someone talking well of it. :)
Of course it wasn't "the masterpiece", but it was done very well, with that unbelievable *feel good* aura at every end of episode. And those set of twins were so kawaii :love: (my favourite were Kaoruko and Sumireiko ^^ ) . It even scored 9.2/10 in my book. :cool:

That open ending deterred me a bit from giving an higher rating. But maybe there will be a "Futakoi 2" not meant as the alternative, but as the former Futakoi proceeding with the story. 13 eps.. were so few..

As for Suzuka, it was a 10/10 to me ^^ not that I'm so fond of spreading full tens all around (in fact I do have 4 anime out of an hundred with such a rating), but for the reasons I've explained in the specifical anime topic, it was fully deserved.

Shuffle, although stll quite good, couldn't compare with these ones, imho :)

[npal]

Oh.. very cool! :)
That's another of my favourite harem around. And since it's kinda belonging to the "buried anime" cathegory I'm quite happy when I hear of someone talking well of it. :)
Of course it wasn't "the masterpiece", but it was done very well, with that unbelievable *feel good* aura at every end of episode. And those set of twins were so kawaii :love: (my favourite were Kaoruko and Sumireiko ^^ ) . It even scored 9.2/10 in my book. :cool:

That open ending deterred me a bit from giving an higher rating. But maybe there will be a "Futakoi 2" not meant as the alternative, but as the former Futakoi proceeding with the story. 13 eps.. were so few..

As for Suzuka, it was a 10/10 to me ^^ not that I'm so fond of spreading full tens all around (in fact I do have 4 anime out of an hundred with such a rating), but for the reasons I've explained in the specifical anime topic, it was fully deserved.

Shuffle, although stll quite good, couldn't compare with these ones, imho :)

Must download Suzuka then :p Since we agree on Futakoi, maybe I'll like Suzuka :D And Futakoi had just 13 episodes and still managed to be decent and fun to watch, and had decent character development. Shuffle had a whole 24 episode season and yet the writers more or less screwed up :p

[Vexx]

Love Hina, I could tolerate. Negima (the manga) was/is pretty good. Tenchi Muyo wasn't bad, either. Sister Princess, I REALLY liked.

I'm really liking Negima the manga .... the anime kind of made me angry over what they *COULD* have done and mangled instead. I'll have to check out Sister Princess ... Tenchi I liked bits of but it was a bit noisy for me. Love Hina.... classic for its time but all I can watch anymore are the Motoko eps and the "beach play" ep.... prefer the manga. We're not tooooo far off page from each other it seems :)

[LilleNisse]

To be honest... I did give it a 10/10. I just really loved it. I remember when I had downloaded the first sub that came out when shuffle came, and I just went "ohh, now this is somthing im gona like". I remember the first Asa scen. Love in first sight, but that changed after seeing Sia, and after that, Ama :love: .

Right after the first episode I got hooked on it. Had a hard time trying to survive untill the next sub. I longed for Shuffle all week long. Just to see thos girls and the story go on. This is defenetly one of my favorit series. And yes, ive seen more then 5 series :heh:
( MyStats
MyList
animes: 178
eps: 3758
files: 3786
watched: 3786 (100%)
anidb in mylist: 8%
anidb watched: 8% )
Yes, I just had to post it for fun :heh:


But what did make me love shuffle so much? Probobly since I find all the girls cute, and thats one of the things that makes me watch harem series. I love cute girls, and ecchi :naughty: (but no hentai!:nono: ).
And I found the story to be really good. I loved all the episodes. Nothing in the series bored me. I loved the side characters. (Hanki-man = pervert god)

I found the way the girls were drawn nice also. I dont really agree with that they were drawn badly. Sure lacked alittle compaired to some of the episodes but I stil loved it and I cant take it down in grade for somthing I really didnt mind :p

Thats all I had to say, now, curse me all you 1-9/10 voters! :heh:

[Wrath88]

I'm giving Shuffle! an 8 out of 10 as well. There were some bad parts to it, like the sudden loss of drama between Kaede and Asa, but on the overall, it was a good anime. Addition of H-man and the defence forces gave it quite a lot of humour, and I really liked that.

[SnakeLegend]

i'm giving perfect, why?
Played the game, nicely done.
watched the anime, ok i understand more.
looked at manga, omfg its going on and on.
Perfect, this anime via manga via game's going to last me my life time.

[evil-samurai]

Hmm.... not going to rate the show dont know what to give it but wouldn't give a 10 nor a 1 but for what its worth the Good Parts of Shuffle. (below) I would rate shuffle as one of the more addictive Shows I've watched even if people watched the show for only one reason, it kepts you there for that. Anyway....

+ Opening & Ending theme's, Sometimes Animation, Character Designs, Great! Music, Comedy was Great but could be overkill at times.
+ Primula!!! & any Primula moments <- Best! part about Shuffle + Kaede moments.
+ The Kings & the Crazy Groups (made shuffle different)
+ Kaede attacks Asa
+ Kaede with Boxcutters
+ Kaede Past Arc
+ Kaede about to loose it and seemly looking like she is on Drugs in end of ep.20
+ Some.. Excellent Voice actor work.
+ Caring Ama
+ the other girls sometimes....

- Prologue animation out the window.
- ep.7 animation. ( the faces.... >.> )
- Fails! in the romance department bettewen two characters. (In short...Asa & Rin = silly/stupid )
- Werid/out-of Character development.
- The Kings animated in ep.24 (My God they were Ugly there)
- Overplayed some moments.
- Alot! moreBasically when Shuffle was Good and Addictive is was among the the best, but when it was Bad it could be horrible! to watch. But overall guess it would be somewhere like 5-8. I watch and enjoyed parts of Shuffle to the very end, but there was usually always sometime wrong with the show.

@ Crimen Scythe Nope.

[Crimen Scythe]

so it's basically an 8....^^

[npal]

so it's basically an 8....^^

Not true, if you read his post carefully, it's clearly NOT an 8. And since he gave a 5-8 margin, I bet it's somewhere in the middle, 6,5-7 which is my rating, too :p

[Crimen Scythe]

an overall 7-8 would be good...shouldnt be any lower evn tho it had it's share of bad script, animation, plotholes, and crap...and it's not perfect either...as we have discussed, there is better anime out there, or better harems... but all in all it was enjoyable and i hope for a return of Shuffle! in a new form...

[npal]

Well, you have to check HOW the 7-8 comes up

For me it's something like this :
Shuffle up to ep 18: 8-10
Shuffle ep 19-20 : 10++
Shuffle ep 21 : 1 (one of the worst episodes, if not the downfall of Shuffle)
Shuffle ep 22 : 7-8 (good, funny episode but a bit unnecessary)
Shuffle ep 23 : 3 (weak episode, weak arc, only Ama saves the day and the occassional girl appearances)
Shuffle ep 24 : first half 5: Ok, it's still the weak Asa plot, but that sound when Rin sliced his wrists was so damn nice, I couldn't disregard that.
Shuffle ep 24 : second half : Ok... This is hard. It would have been 8-9, it was funny, Ama/Kings were very well done, and KaedexSia kiss scene was :love:. BUT... the animation was pure crap... even if I were lenient, it's still at least one point minus. But I'm not that forgiving, so I'll give it a 5 cause of terrible animation.

But since I'm nice, I gave it an overall 7 :p What can I say, last impressions count :cool:

[Crimen Scythe]

:topicoff: the Rin slicing sound was good...it made it worth it...

As for Shuffle! in general, i cant say that i didnt enjoy it so i would leave it at 8...alot of things did dissapoint...and made us start questioning the writers...
I'm not gonna deduct points for Shuffle! based on the ep 24 animation...i saw it twice...and as i said in the ep 24 thread...it fit in with the lightheared comedy since it was a switch from Intense drama to intense comedy...to make us relieved and either want more or just e want to end it, satisfied....but i want more, second season without this couple...

[Pellissier]

Well for me it's something like this:

I clearly stated it was a 7.5 to me, as well as I clearly stated the animation was going to have a malus for the second half of last episode.

As for the story, I gave 5. Why?

Episode 1-11: vote 4 for inconsistence.
Episode 12-14: vote 8 for Primula and for an overall well thought plot
Episode 15-17: vote 5 for sillyness
Episode 18: vote 7 for failing to be the sweetest of the series (cause=lack of confession)
Episode 19-20: vote 9 for emotional involvment and overall realization/voice acting. Higher point in the series.
Episode 21: vote 4 for contraddictions/clueless script
Episode 22: vote 8 for overall sweetness
Episode 23: vote 6 for poorly believable pattern
Episode 24: vote 5 for "wannabe original" failed, and for bad animations.

It's a 6+ , summing the various rates. BUT, as I have said on my brief review back on page one when I talked of "major penalization", for the first eleven episodes the plot gets a straight -1 . Thus it's a 5.
Combined with the other things, it's a 7.5 .
Then you could ask me, why then to put it in the "8" and not in the "7" ?
Simply answer: because when there's a balancement, the first factor I consider, in order of importance, is the *enjoyment* . And that was a plain 9, since I really throuroughly enjoyed this series despite its flaws. Ditto, I oriented my rate a bit on the highest, and that's how my very personal 8 came up ;)

[BrokenWingz]

8-Its not the typical harem show, only some fan service every now and then but its majorly drama and it doesnt show how some person/people mature throughout the series, its definitely good but not a great because there are obviously some flaws that doesnt make it a blockbuster :p.

Quote-Fobeseii ep 22 i'm suprised that Rin didnt choose Sia/Nerine/Kaede.

I think that choosing one of those would of made a larger impression for the ending but its still good non-the-less.

extra stuff-I dont mind watching shows that dont go anywhere in the first place(fillers or random scenes) as long as it doesnt come filler somewhere in the story where it gets good(e.g Naruto)
1st 13eps tend to be random get to know the chars type of concept so i didnt mind the each ep for a certain girl fo Shuffle!
15-17Was kind of silly but at that point Sia was probably the most or 2nd most likely to be Choosen so i thought it was alright and the end of ep 17 was where Rin was starting to show his change
18-Could call it the pre-obvious for who was/will Rin choice
19-21-nothing else to say, obvious the high in the drama throught the series
22-24 no comment *yet*

[wildarmsheero]

Not the best anime I've ever seen, but very entertaining and it had a lot of heart. I felt very close to the characters, which is what really sold me. 8/10. Great show.

[Pellissier]

For the statistics' lovers (I am one :D ) :

Currently the overall average rating for SHUFFLE! , with 73 voters, is 7.89/10

[Akuryou]

I'd give SHUFFLE! an 8/10.
For people who hadn't played the game, or were able to resist the evil spoiler tags, the ending was pretty interesting. I just think that Nerine needed more screentime [If they animate TICK! TACK!, then I'll change my rating to 9/10], and the animation was poor. Afterall, great series.

[303aegiszx]

A favourite for me now. Just loved it. 10/10

^^

[wildarmsheero]

and the animation was poor.
wut

I admit that it was no Akira or 0083, but the animation was pretty damn good for a TV series =/

[kira_lacusXX]

i gave it an 8/10, because it wasnt an "OMG I FREAKING LOVE THAT ANIME!! IT WAS THE BEST" but it wasnt a "shuffle what? cards? oh the anime shuffle, dont really remember...". its something i would remember. the characters were great, the music was great, and the story was good. enough for a *thumbs up* from me :D

[Vexx]

I like the ep by ep analysis people are doing to arrive at their decisions .... I'm at work so all I can add is I'm somewhere tween Pell and npal --- enjoyed the first half as "light comedy romance", really enjoyed the "save Primula" arc (.. disappointed that Nerine got shut off so easily), *really* enjoyed the "descent of Kaede" . ... then was psyched up for a end to the Kaede arc and a really kickass Asa arc and conclusion and then ... .wtf??????
Kaede just whimpered away? Asa's brain gets replaced by a sponge? Rin's personality is replaced by a bunch of post-it notes? We switch to Clutch Cargo animation team at the end? (yes, the little chibi-ish bits were cute tho)
I will state this was not a Negima or Ichigo trainwreck... but it was a bit of a fender bender ... Lost opportunities for unforgettable ....

Watching the earlier episodes reminds me of just how much of this series I do like ... going to show the series this weekend to some friends without saying anything and see how they review it...

[Nvis]

I give it a 8/10. I've seen some better dramas, like KGNE :bow: (less predictable)

[Sian]

at the moment the average vote is 7,89 :)

[Last_Hope]

I gave Shuffle a seven.

It´s an enjoyable work and it has its moments of comedy and drama but the way they resolved Kaede´s problem drags my rating down.

[TwilightHack]

I've seen better harem than this (first being Da Capo), but overall, I guess it's ok.
Sorry for being picky... but Da Capo better then Shuffle? No way!

Anyways I rate this series around an 8... it's good... but it could've been great had they only... well this isn't the thread for that is it?

[Pellissier]

Sorry for being picky... but Da Capo better then Shuffle? No way!
Well, everyone is free to have his own tastes :)
In the case of Da Capo (meaning the first season), I've to state that strong and intense characters as Nemu, Kotori and Sakura have absolutely no match with either Asa, either Sia, either whichever you want (maybe I could make an exception for Kaede). And the story were a little bit smoother and with a better main character. A lot of things, now this isn't the place to talk about them.
By the way, in my very personal ranking, Da Capo is placed as the first for harem genre, with an overall rating of 9.3/10. Naturally, imho ;)

[ragnarokr]

7 here

it had it' highs and downs, but Rin reaction in the last episode saved the last few episodes.

[Pellissier]

Well, I'm resuming this poll to see if it can collects its last votes before the forum will move.
By the way, the tendency is stated: the average is once again fixed at 7,89 with 108 voters.

Considering we're in a so called "Shuffle fans' area" this rate should be a bit higher than the real average. In facts the very negative rates (3 and 4) were 3 out of 108, almost irrilevant.

[Lina Inverse]

Well, I'm resuming this poll to see if it can collects its last votes before the forum will move.
By the way, the tendency is stated: the average is once again fixed at 7,89 with 108 voters.
This matches very nicely with my voting of 8/10 :)

[Xellos-_^]

I think the score should be a little higher since i think good many of the 8 voters actually wanted to vote 8.5

[pinsher6]

shuffle is wonderful, but not the best in my heart so ijust give 8 out of 10...:)

[EternityOfPain]

I give it a 5/10 for reasons read my review on it here: Shuffle Review! (http://www.animelessons.net/shuffle.htm)

[Keitarou]

Managed to watch the last three episodes two days ago and overall it got solid 64% in my book. So, 6/10 on this poll.

I liked the basic premise and world but the overused and reoccuring jokes, all the wasted time in the beginning and the blatant ecchi overdose, a ppm of ~2, deterred from the overall show.

There's also the aspect that I just couldn't get to like most of the main-characters, except for Kaede and later on Primula. The side-characters on the other hand were a nice addition, Itsuki and Mayumi make a great pair and the two kings were simply funny when brought together. :)

In opposition to them, there's Rin, who made it easily on my most disliked male characters list, on #2 (between Takayuki Narumi and Shinn Asuka, Junnichi Asakura).

Anyway, being 14 episodes long and the view being more on the drama aspect would've done wonders to it. Especially since the episodes 12-15 were quite good and 20, 21 and most particularly 19 were simply outstanding.

The last three episodes were also quite a waste.


The outcome was pretty obvious and predictable. This is for sure. But I still was hoping for a dream coming true and Rin and Asa dying in that last episode. That would be just perfect, both die, the other two annoying girls got send back to their original worlds and we can have Kaede and Rimu living in a shoujo ai relationship for all eternity...
Dreams have that bad habbit of never coming true though...sadly.


It still beats out our beloved soap opera and the somewhat less loved incest show, though. (You are free to guess the titles, it should be obvious though). ;)

[LocrEpinS]

I gave it a 10!, probably because it's the second anime i've watched, but then again i'm probably the pickiest anime/manga fan on earth.

[Vexx]

I've noticed people tend to rank their first or second instance of romance anime pretty high in their overall rankings simply because its the "omigod you mean anime does something besides BLOW THINGS UP? and reek of pocket monsters?"
My first romance comedy anime was Love Hina and it is still a classic archetype.. though its slipped off of my top 3 list ... I still consider Motoko one of the most interesting characters I've ever come across (I'd marry her in a hearbeat .. though then my existing wife would kill me).

LocrEpinS, I suggest you take a look at the following:
Kanon, AIR, Tsukuyomi Moon Phase, Mahoraba: Heartful Days, and the recent Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora .... Karin and Kamichu! are also worth a look (the latter is not really a romance but quite good).... if you want something with less stress but a charming romance, try Lamune.

[LocrEpinS]

Ya, thx for dat.
I've actually compiled quite a lengthy list of animes i'm gonna try out, and atm i haven't had the time to really download or read reviews(grrr, homework >.<, well not really that much).
oh and about Lamune, i happen to already be watching that, and like it almost as much as Shuffle!, still waitn' on the fansubs though.

[Pellissier]

The average has decreased :o

It is now 7.79/10

[npal]

The average has decreased :o

It is now 7.79/10

And it's still too high, if you ask me :p

[Rich]

i hate to say this but the ending was kind of dissapointing for me..... well i didn't feel like i get anything or recieved anything about the anime... it was kind of amusing and ecchi, which i really liked =P, but then the second half of the anime came and kind of went to this super natural thing which left me confused... o well , 8 / 10 a anime you have to watch..

[Pellissier]

it was kind of amusing and ecchi, which i really liked =P, but then the second half of the anime came and kind of went to this super natural thing which left me confused... o well , 8 / 10 a anime you have to watch..
Are you basically saying that you liked the first half, and the second half not much instead? :twitch:

Oh well, that should be one of the proof of why they say "world is beautiful because it's various" ;)

--

Seriously, I stated this, because it was quite common opinion that the first half kinda lacked, while the second delivered some freshness and intriguing events. I think all of us agree with you on the disappointing ending, by the way :)

[PGilis]

I will give an 8. :)

I liked. I really do. But just like everything else, has some flaws.

For me i'd had prefered if the graphics were a little closer to the original bgame and if they had made a Nerine Ending. ;) That way, they would have a good excuse to make the sequel animated, too :heh:

Anyway, a very good series. And maybe the best harem-themed tv show released.

[TrueKnight]

8/10, it's funny and entertaining. I enjoyed it. Asa is good, I totally despise Kaede for being so obidient. It's like having a stalker for life watching every toes you'd make if Rin ended up with her, not to mention she's psychotic. However Kaede is particularly what made Shuffle interesting in ep 19 up.

But I still like Primula the best though.................. If only it ended with her then definitely 10/10 for teh win!

[willx]

Hm.. Gave it 8/10

I must admitt that I was a little bias, as when I first started watching the series, after the first two eps, I simply said: "Bah, he's gonna end up with Kaede isn't he?" and just sort of went into blase mode..

And to be honest, I was a little annoyed at the Sia and Nerine characters (and their counterparts), because although its sweet to harbor feelings for someone, I dunno.. it seems a bit much..

And then the last oh, 12 episodes or so completely switched gears on me, and as being a fan of Asa-sempai, made the somewhat flawed ending episodes still enjoyable for me.

All in all, enjoyable, but bipolar. Not all characters were developed enough, some of those character developments just weren't believeable and some of the side characters seem very interesting.. I would've liked to see more Mayuki, Itsuki and Kareha.

[rooboy]

After consideration (and rewatching this weekend), I think I have to go with a 7. The last episodes (pretty much the last arc) are not as good as the earlier episodes. Note that I'm not saying anything about the outcome, after rewatching it, I'm amazed I didn't notice the outcome earlier. I also thought it was definitely going to be a Kaede ending, but if you watch they drop significantly large hints about Asa all through the series (something that they fail to do with any of the other girls, all of whom seem to shuffle into the background at various points in the story). Even with the problems the concluding arc has though, there were definitely enough high points that I would buy a R1 release of it (especially if they cleaned up some of the animation, which was good in spots, but poor in others).

As for other romance animes I enjoyed (really, should we compare harem series only to harems? Especially since none of us really agree on what a harem series is?), I liked Ai Yori Aoshi (and Enishi), but it would have similarly gotten a "7" grade (despite being the second I was exposed to, Vexx :p ). Love Hina I would rate at probably a 7 as well, though the manga would rate significantly higher. Futakoi I enjoyed (even the goat), but still at like a 7, Futakoi Alternative I probably liked at an "8" clip, except for the ending, which was just too high on my bizarre scale. Da Capo (including second season) I think of like a "7". I would rate Suzuka higher than a 7, but the animation was very uneven. I don't mind if animation is just plain bad, but can it at least be consistently bad? Suzuka had characters that in some episodes I had problems recognizing. KGNE was probably close to being an 8, in a "train wreck I can't look away from" kind of way, and I flat didn't like AIR. Kanon would have probably been like a 6, but I thought the character designs were very cute.
I'm desperately trying to come up with one I would have rated higher than a 7. Lamune I would probably rate at a 9. Mahoroba rates a 9 on the uber-cuteness scale, but the manga is better. I'm going to say that the only 10 I've ever seen was probably Amaendaiyo .... HA! GOT YOU! :D
Though this isn't really restricted to romantic animes. I think the only two series I've ever enjoyed enough to rate a "10" would probably be Noir and R.O.D. the TV. Just about nothing's perfect. :)
Weird side-thing. Negima is my favorite manga (I have literally started buying Weekly Shonen Magazine just to get my fix, and it's lead to my discovery of other manga series like Suzuka and School Rumble), but I've never really considered it a romance thing. Technically it has a harem (in the same way Gun x Sword has a harem), but I always thought it belonged to the "mindless shonen" perjorative, rather than the "harem" one. But if Negima (the manga) counts, I'd probably rate that one a 10, the anime of course is highly flawed, but often amusing and would probably be more like a 6.

[Vexx]

I also rate Lamune and Mahoraba as 9 or 10 simply because they're almost perfect at WHAT THEY SET OUT TO DO. Tsukuyomi Moon Phase rates a 9 with me for the same reason (points subtracted for their animation disasters - fixed in the dvds and for the really stupid "Neko-Kaoru" bits). Negima the anime -if I ignore the manga completely- still only rates a 7 for the first 19 eps... and then just falls apart at the end -- the new writing team simply could not write their way out of the mess they'd been handed. There are specific bits and scenes I dearly love out of the anime series (usually involving Evangeline and Chach, or the martial arts girls) but only ep 19 with the ghostly classmate stands out at what the series COULD have been in terms of drama.

The first season of AYA I rate pretty highly ... nice closure to story arc and my only real complaint was the stupid boob-check gag which also hurts the manga (I am so tired of that lame not-a-gag). The second season ... each ep rates well but there was no progression to speak of outside of a reader's digest version of Tina's little crisis.

Love Hina... at the time I saw it, I rated it highly but it hasn't aged well ... mostly the Motoko eps are all I can watch anymore (I loathe the gadget-fest eps and the failure to end it even when the manga was complete).

Hopefully this kind of explains where I'm coming from in rating Shuffle an 8.... (really a high 7)... in terms of --- story execution and animation. Did I believe in the characters or could I see the strings of the puppeteers jerking them around?

[Crusaders]

I should give it a 7, because the animation and story wasn't very good, but the music was pretty good and Asa is in Shuffle anime....so i gave it a 9

[Moon Eclipse]

I gave it an 8. Not the best, not even as good as it should have been... but that's mostly just the fault of the ending. The majority of the anime set the bar high, the ending was a let down IMO. It was almost like they wanted to just wrap the entire things as quickly and as neatly as possible. That ended up pissing me off... But overall it's a good anime. ^^ I'm bitter/sweet for having watched it but either way I enjoyed it a great deal for what it was. AAA might have won this one... but the KKK will be victorious in the end! MUHAHAHA!!!! @.@

[Archuka]

I give it a 7.

The first 17 epsodes were a huge waste of time. Seriously, every time I was done with an episode I thought: "Why the hell do I keep downloading and watching this crap?" The characters (especially Rin) had so many cheesy lines I almost couldn't take it, somehow there was no animosity between the girls and there was also lots of really forced fan service that just didn't look right.

Ep. 18 was much better, but still nothing special. Episodes 19-24 are what bring the overall score all the way from negatives to 7. The psycho time bomb, Kaede, finally blows up and we get some drama. Minus points for the weird knife trick but otherwise the show is doing great at this point.

After the whole Kaede thing the show becomes a little bit weaker again in my opinion, but it was quite enjoyable all the way to the end.

PS. What the hell was that Sia + Kaede thing in the ending credits? Now that's something they should have properly included in the series.

PS2. I hate the way Nerine says "Rin-sama!"

[SeedFreedom]

wow. i never though i would hear praise from...well anyone for the last eps, nevertheless calling the first eps a waste of time. i felt the exact opposite. the first eps had plot, comedy, and good animation. once the kaede arc started though...everything went downhill. and if that was how the show started, i would have never watched it.

[Archuka]

wow. i never though i would hear praise from...well anyone for the last eps, nevertheless calling the first eps a waste of time. i felt the exact opposite. the first eps had plot, comedy, and good animation. once the kaede arc started though...everything went downhill. and if that was how the show started, i would have never watched it.

Err, what plot? There was absolutely no plot or character developement at all for the first half of the show.

It was basically Rin trying to be the ultimate goody-two-shoes who just wants to be friends with the girls who are all madly drooling at him. Then in ep. 14-15(?) when the so called "drama" came I didn't know if I should cry or laugh. It was just so bad. -_-;

[Vexx]

Nothing like a fresh strong opinion :) ..... of course, I happen to love Nerine's voice so its a good thing tastes differ.

Another difference... there clearly was plot and character establishment in the first half of the series.... it was just pretty generic, consisting of character focused episodes. I agree it was a loss that the writer of the Kaede arc didn't have control of the whole show -- the quality would have been the better for it.

[wingdarkness]

Well I've been wanting to get this off my chest, better late than never I suppose...I gave Shuffle a 4...on further reveiw maybe a 5 because i don't usually watch a full series that's a 4....However i did give up on Shuffle at about ep 13...it was just bad to me, the main character and the plot was so boring and the biggest thing of all is that the show isn't funny (Only Itsuki and Mayumi eps ever made me laff)...Then a few people like evil-samurai and some others kept telling me about the "Kaede arc" and how impactful that whole thing is (Not that it was good, but it was worth watching to understand the series)...So I watched the next 11 eps over a 3 day period just to get to that part and after it was all said and done i wished i hadn't...But the one thing I have to admit about Shuffle it's one of those series that really illicits a strong reaction from you...I'm about to be pretty analytical so stick with me...

Do you understand how much of my basic human knowledge I had to suppress to get thru this thing?? First is Asa's sickness....Rin and Kaede call her Asa-sempai which denotes they have known her a while and have established a relationship...So in the whole time they've known each other she has never passed out or fallen down or has shown any sick conditions to them...Once her illness is revealed she's dying every other episode?? Just didn't make sense...I was hoping she died for the tragic ending that would have satisfied me a bit, but after her beyond crazy reason for not wanting to use her magic I just tried to get thru the rest of the series without trying to think to much...

As for Kaede I understand why people sympathize with her...Eventhough she did some evil $hit when she was younger it still seemed to me Rin treated her bad...One of the best and only moments in the series I really enjoyed and connected with was the scene where Rin goes on an on about how Asa is suffering and Kaede (almost like a person who has lost there resolve to live) says something along the lines of "I understand I haven't suffered enough..." I was like damn she must feel like nothing inside...then she cracks and has some really good dark scenes with her in the shower then her most desperate attempt at Rin's love...And like many others the way they made her and Asa become friends again was a joke at best...Destroyed all the tension and Kaede's character development aswell...

Now with all that said i have to play Devil's advocate a bit aswell...Personally I can't blame Rin all that much for not wanting to be with her (not the oblivious way he treated her though)...I mean if a girl I lived with as a child had tried to kill me multiple times I don't know if i could ever completley get over that (despite the circumstances)...I also don't think it should be a given that the guy should always get with the girl who does everything for them, it creates an atmosphere of dependantcy...And furthermore a relationship like that would inevitable become stale...You have to have passion for the girl you want to be with IMO...I hated Rin for alot of reasons, but not for not wanting to be with Kaede (Just the asinine way he dealt with the situation)...

Now everybody talks about Kaede getting jobbed, but what about Sia? Sia got the worst treatment...She was basically about to marry Rin...he was falling for her...She overhears Nerine's "out of the arse" story, tells him she'll work harder for his love...Next thing ya know she falls off the face of the earth (With no rhyme or reason)...They throw together a lame 1-parter explaining she's a skitzo and then she gracefully bows out and to boot tries to hook him up with Asa...Insanity?? Anyone??

And don't get me started on Asa...i don't dislike her at all, but c'mon she knew what she was doing...She made Sia and Nerine look like fools in front of Rin and she did it with the full knowledge of why they were trying to keep Primula's secret...Furthermore anyway you look at it she knew Kaede was in love with Rin yet she still pursued him (A good friend doing this vs. new girls changes everything)...She looked at Rin thru the window as he waited day after day for Kaede and she wanted that...Do i blame her for that? No that's how girls are, they don't care about friendships when they like the same guy (historical fact)...But lets not pretend there is no deciet involved....Your teaching your good friend how to cook and clean for the guy you like while knowing their feelings?? That's the definition of deciet...

As for Asa giving her permission to still love Rin, how pathetic is that, sheeesh...I guess this was the innovative harem script we we're hearing about :rollseyes:... Your giving the girl false-hope (I mean she's crazy for being the first girl on earth to immediatley become friends again with the girl who "stole" her man cause that never happens)...But it just crapped on her character evenmore...I just felt sorry for her fanbase...

And finally Rin cutting his wrist was the first thing he did ALL SERIES inwhich he used his own freewill...IMO he stands at the bottom-feeder of harem lead characters...He was really awful if you think about his whole development...He makes Taka from KGNE look like a smooth-a$$ pimp...I even enjoy Manaka from Ichigo 100% infinitley more than Rin...

Overall Shuffle had some great fanservice and what was so good about the fanservice (beside it being fanservice :P)...It took place in some of the most morbid and dark scenes in the series which really makes it somewhat unique in the harem genre, but other than that Shuffle fell flat in alot of areas IMO...One of the rare animes I've watched that i wished I hadn't completed...So why am i here discussing it you ask? Well Shuffle is one of those shows that really get under your skin if you don't like it...It really is a polorising anime...Other than Gundam Seed Destiny, no other anime I've watched in the last year has made me literally angry upon it finishing but Shuffle...I mean I was just upset for hours...It really can extract raw emotions from you (good and bad) and I guess I'll have to give it credit for that, but before ever watching it again i think I'd rather Shuffle a deck...

[Vexx]

Probably one of the more precise analyses of what went wrong with Shuffle!

If they'd left it as light hearted fluff romantic comedy they'd have been on much safer ground. But you're right... you kind of have to ignore a lot of very basic human behavior to put up with what happened.

My metaphor is that you know the puppeteers are doing good work if you forget about the strings...... in this show the strings were being pulled so hard you're surprised their little heads don't come off.

Yet another "Great Characters" "Great Premise" "Execution by Retards" ..... ah well, I have some pretty figurines.
In the mean time I'm seeing much more sensible writing over on many of the shows listed in my .sig lines.

ps: like your katakana for Texas..... I grew up in Houston, got a BSEE from Rice, worked down at NASA for many years .... my sympathies :)

[Nikku]

I started this thread to see what everyone's opinion of shuffle! was?

I havent decided yet if i like or hate this anime, i was very suprised when Rin choose Asa :twitch: out of all people, i mean what was the point of Sia and Nerine? Rin didnt choose ether at the end. Out of all people i would have put my money on Kaede. Besides that i thought they did a good job on character development, an "ok" job on relating it to life, and a good job on animation. although i didnt care for the "emo" ending. :heh: lol, i think this anime balances out on a good and bad scale. so i would give it a 5.5 out of 10.

[Riker]

You mean something like this thread?
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=27639

[Moon Eclipse]

While I either agree of can understand the majority of the merit behind the accessment of Shuffle!

My own personal feelings aside, I believe that Shuffle! is a great anime if for no other reason than to affect people so much that they would talk about it long after it was done. You're completely correct about the raw emotions part. I think anyone that's ever looked over the threads will agree that the pure fanatisism and devotion that Shuffle has inspires is painful aparent. The fact that they left everyone so unfulfilled in the end might even work to their advantage in the end as it will infuriate and scar us all for the rest of out harem anime watching lives

[Rin-Sama]

perfect 10!

[Nikku]

perfect 10!

how can you like the fact that he choose asa? i didnt know that was possible. i would have been happy if he would have choosen anyone else, but asa. that was to.... random.

[Xellos-_^]

how can you like the fact that he choose asa? i didnt know that was possible. i would have been happy if he would have choosen anyone else, but asa. that was to.... random.

The Asa ending idespite the proganda form KKK was not drawing out of a hat.

If you re-watch form Ep7 onward that Asa and her illness had been carefully sprinkle inot the show in almost every ep. And that more then anyone else Asa is the one that makes Rin go forward with his life.

[npal]

The Asa ending idespite the proganda form KKK was not drawing out of a hat.

If you re-watch form Ep7 onward that Asa and her illness had been carefully sprinkle inot the show in almost every ep. And that more then anyone else Asa is the one that makes Rin go forward with his life.

And that's standard AAA propaganda. :p

[Rin-Sama]

Truthfully i liked Asa from the very begining. However even i thought that Rin was going to end up with Kaede. Having him end up with Asa really brightened things up for me!

[DrewGSR]

Meh such an average anime I dunno how its getting so much 10s... Compared to others in its genre its inferiors. I give it a 6. Pretty cliche and way too "cheese" towards the end. But if Asa had died. Even better if they would have let Rin kill himself at the end. Then i would give it an 8 or possibly a 9.

[Wrath88]

The Asa ending idespite the proganda form KKK was not drawing out of a hat.

No it wasn't, it was the dartboard that decides the fate of most animes.:p

[npal]

No it wasn't, it was the dartboard that decides the fate of most animes.:p

Yes, let's all not forget the Chief-Writer and the Dart-Throwing Writer :D

[Vexx]

I'd say the writers had Asa in mind almost from ep 1 ... but it doesn't mean they didn't just clusterf**k the last five episodes with writing done by randomly pulling dialog out of a hat and rationale even a three year old would respond to with "wtf?".

Here's hoping "The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi" gives us much more quality diversion time :)

[npal]

I'd say the writers had Asa in mind almost from ep 1 ... but it doesn't mean they didn't just clusterf**k the last five episodes with writing done by randomly pulling dialog out of a hat and rationale even a three year old would respond to with "wtf?".

Here's hoping "The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi" gives us much more quality diversion time :)

Isn't Suzumiya more like a comedy?

At least, they could've just messed up only 20 secs in the final ending credits :p At least, I'd be happy with the rest of the series :D Now the whole series looks like crap (to me) because of those 5 episodes.

[Zelos_Zalis]

a 6. while I only give this a 6 it doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it but aside what has already been said this anime shows what happens when a bishojo game gets animated. what do I mean? well its the simple fact of when playing the game a player typicaly within the first 10 minutes picks who they like and want to pair up the main character with, this ofcourse inturn means you pick the ending you want to see, self-gratification. this is true with all bishojo games.

The problem with this is that when it goes anime this option is completely unavavalible and the decisions are left up to someone else that may not share your opinions so for alot of people you are left with a bad taste in your mouth. That is why these animes will always be flawed.

Now for other things, I tend to like the light-hearted so I liked the beginning of the series. I agree with wingdarkness that some of the humor was cheesy and childish, but that doesn't neccessarly make it bad, when its overdone it becomes bad (I felt ashamed to watch the whole "victory panties" thing).

For the characters, I'll give writers credit for atleast trying to get some backstory on each character, know we've all seen the animes who have no backgrounds. I can't give them too much credit though since they had the game to work from and they did use it, since the only difference that the game has is everything is so smashed togather, for reasons stated earlier. If I had to really chose, I'd say the time with the non-main of main characters (i.e. no rin, kaede, asa, nerine or sia) was the best time in the anime. The Kings were funny and tolerable, the teacher came off as a decent character except when she felt she needed to torment rin (more corniness, reminds me of yumeria, ugh). Ama and primula I actually felt sad for, I don't usually get emotional for an anime character like that. Itsuki and Mayumi were just funny and I was kinda suprised nothing happened between them since anime kinda leaned on it.

That is pretty much it. The final word: A 6, slightly above average but not much.

[Rin-Sama]

Thoes of you who vote below an 8 have no taste.

From all the herum anime's i have seen, only Tenchi Muyo left you gussing who the main male character would end up with in the end. Of course we still don't know who Tenchi ended up with... The way the writers and producers progressed the story was one of the best plots i have ever seen. They managed to fit all the girls' stories into 24 episodes with such great story telling, which with the average anime isn't normally enough time to do so.

With most animes that are 24-26 episodes it feels rushed to get in most of the stories. However this is one of the few animes where they managed to find a good balance between time restraints and story plot. The only other anime which had a good story plot and was told with good development is "Figure 17."

That's why i gave this anime a 10. (And having Rin end up with Asa was a plus!)

[Nikku]

Ok, is it just me or does Rin from Shuffle! look dead up like Takayuki from KGNE (Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, one of the best anime's ever!)

Takayuki:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j59/NyKoN49/bscap0001.jpg

Rin:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j59/NyKoN49/bscap0000.jpg

[npal]

Ok, is it just me or does Rin from Shuffle! look dead up like Takayuki from KGNE (Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, one of the best anime's ever!)

Takayuki:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j59/NyKoN49/bscap0001.jpg

Rin:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j59/NyKoN49/bscap0000.jpg

Well, they are both retarded, they end up with the worst girl possible. Yes, I think they 're related :p

[Nikku]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ man , i couldnt agree more

[RedFrame]

i think most of harem anime this have their male lead with a same style ~spiky hair thing~.....(with a different character) ...

[Sorrow-K]

Thoes of you who vote below an 8 have no taste.I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this comment.

Anyway, I gave it a 3 (http://www.nihonreview.com/wordpress/anime/shuffle/) in my review. My biggest problem was the inanity of the first half... it was just so quintessentially harem-like and uninspired. Then the second half was overly melodramatic. Oh yeah, and I thought the characters were flat and horribly cliched. Particulary Sia and Nerine... I have no qualms with saying that this anime was at its best whenever they weren't on screen.

This is pretty much harem-staple, which is why I sorta understand why it's popular among harem fans. And the animation and fanservice are pretty good as well. But for us non-harem fans or people who want something with a little more intellectual weight, I strongly recommend against this.

And, no, I'm pretty sure I have taste... quite refined taste in anime, if I may boast... and I don't particularly appreciate posts implying that I don't.

[npal]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this comment.

Anyway, I gave it a 3 (http://www.nihonreview.com/wordpress/anime/shuffle/) in my review. My biggest problem was the inanity of the first half... it was just so quintessentially harem-like and uninspired. Then the second half was overly melodramatic. Oh yeah, and I thought the characters were flat and horribly cliched. Particulary Sia and Nerine... I have no qualms with saying that this anime was at its best whenever they weren't on screen.

This is pretty much harem-staple, which is why I sorta understand why it's popular among harem fans. And the animation and fanservice are pretty good as well. But for us non-harem fans or people who want something with a little more intellectual weight, I strongly recommend against this.

And, no, I'm pretty sure I have taste... quite refined taste in anime, if I may boast... and I don't particularly appreciate posts implying that I don't.

Eh, if you aren't a harem fan, why were you watching it? I don't believe anyone was fooled into thinking that Shuffle is NOT a harem anime.
Shuffle has all the inherent weaknesses that harem anime have. But to say it sucks is like I'm saying Doom 3 sucks because I don't like FPS. Or like my father saying Lord of the Rings sucks because it has nothing to do with reality. Well, DUH, if you need something different, watch something different :p No need to waste time watching something you know you won't like and then writing a review about how it sucked, when you're not even a harem-fan to begin with.

@Rin-Sama About the taste thing, I could say "anyone who likes Asa has no taste" but that's not very objective, is it?

Edit: Unless of course, someone told you that you have to see Kaede's arc :p

[Sorrow-K]

Numerous reasons why I decided to watch Shuffle!, among them being the Kaede arc, but also because I like to keep reasonably up to date with as many popular anime as I can. Shuffle! was much talked about at the time, both by people who liked it and disliked it and I wanted to find out for myself where I stood. Unlike a lot of other people, I don't see 24 episodes as a huge time investment. I also have a passion for reviewing anime, bad or good, which gave me another reason to watch Shuffle! (and a lot of titles in the past that I didn't enjoy).

Anyway, objectivity is exactly the first priority when I reviewed Shuffle, and no matter how I looked at it, it was below mediocre. As a harem it didn't offer much. Most of the characters were unlikable (Kaede and Primula were about the only characters I liked, but even I can admit Kaede is totally unrealistic), the comedy is veeery poor and the drama in the second half was more melodrama than anything else. And as a story it was just too disjointed, formulaic and unoriginal to be considered highly. Like I said in the review, the Kaede arc was the absolute highlight of the series, but the rest was a chore.

But don't think for a moment I hate everything in the harem genre... there are a few rare titles I enjoy like Girls Bravo or Raimuiro Senkitan. But it's a genre that's offered inanity and a real lack of originality or initiative over and over again. Shuffle! very quickly found its equilibrium position within the harem genre and took up residence there... but it didn't offer much I hadn't seen before or I thought wasn't totally stupid.

[wingdarkness]

^Wow I gave Shuffle a 4 and I came to almost all the same conclusions as you Sorrow-K, please read my review (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=489341&postcount=85) and see if you agree...I think what people who really like the show may find strange is how you like the fanservice or certain aspects of the show, yet as a whole find it totally as you said "disjointed, formulaic and unoriginal to be considered highly." I atleast thought the fanservice was really well done...For obvious reasons ofcourse, but also because unlike most harem shows it was done in a really natural way that was hardley ever forced...I mean some of the best fanservice comes in some of the most emotionally charaged moments, but as you said the series is so sporadic on the whole it's mind-numbing at times...If your gonna fail on story and//or characters atleast be funny...Which this show was not unless Itsuki and Mayumi was on the screen...The most entertaining episode to me was the one that was mostly about Mayumi getting that waitress job...The difference between Shuffle and harem like Love Hina and Ichigo 100% is that those shows atleast know what their core audience wants and has a good level of comedy despite the shows problems...I think the Shuffle writers tried so hard to make it a totally new and creative harem attempt that they made it worse...Taking risks is good, but when it fails your left with pie all over your face...Rabid, froth-mouthed fanclones (like the one that insists it's atleast an 8) are excluded because you can't kill those guys with just a mere fly-swatter...

[Rin-Sama]

Listen i know that several points of the anime was a bit Cliche, but as the saying goes, if it works don't fix it. Most harem animes share alot in common with SHUFFLE!, but that's no reason why to punish it with such low scores.

If you actually sat down and took in the story line before making your mind up before hand about it becasue you don't like harem animes, then you would see that there is a really good story behind it all. I know that saying you try to keep up with the latest animes, and i can respect that, but you already had made up your mind about SHUFFLE! becasue it was another harem anime, and you said you don't like harem animes. So that just leads me to say that you had some sort of predudous against them. (not all since you seem to liek a couple). Yes i do like harem animes alot. But i can garantee that if i was nutral about animes and had just watched SHUFFLE! for the 1st time i know i would have liked it anyway. (8 maybe 9 out of 10)

Yes although i love the harem style animes even I wasn't expecting much from this anime either. I was expecting another typical harem anime where all the girls like the boy and want him, and although that was somewhat the case here there was alot more put into it to make the story REALLY GOOD! Not since the Love Hina Manga had that happend. But what really took me by surprize was that it had alot of plot twists and character development for a 24 episode series. This is one of the few harem animes that i have seen where there was really no main female character until near the end. I've been an anime fan since 1993 and i can tell you few harem animes can really surprize me anymore, but this one did. That's a main reason why i gave it such a high rateing.

Useually in most harem animes there is a single main female character that you know will be the one the main male character chooses. With SHUFFLE! however although it appeared that the was a single main female character it quickly showed that there wasn't. In fact the main male charcter (Rin) choose what seemed to be just a side character at 1st.

THAT'S What made SHUFFLE! stand out the most from other harem animes! The story didn't revolve around a single male and female character with many main-side characters, it chose to have ALL the female charcters in a main-side character role until near the end with Rin chose one of the girls. And it was the one that you probably least expected, Asa.

All in all yes SHUFFLE! used alot of the time tested values of the typical harem anime but they put many twists to them and even added a few plots of their own. (EX. Kaede seemingly a kind and caring girl actually turned out to be a psycotic violent person.) So to say that SHUFFLE! followes the typical mediocer harem anime plot is false. This harem anime had many of it's own unique plots and harem twists.

So i have to agree with npal on this one. And although he doesn't like Asa and I don't Like Kaede all that much, Im sure he agrees that this was a fun, unique, and very enjoyable anime to watch.

[wingdarkness]

THAT'S What made SHUFFLE! stand out the most from other harem animes! The story didn't revolve around a single male and female character with many main-side characters, it chose to have ALL the female charcters in a main-side character role until near the end with Rin chose one of the girls


And also eating a whole pie (while it looks delicious) will actually make you sick...Being creative and trying to shift and pull plot twists outta nowhere and trying to cater different aspects of the show to every female character while it may seem innovative at the same time it can also hurt character development and wind up making a sporadic mess of things...Something has to give, you can't do all the creative things Shuffle tries to pull off in a 24 ep anime series and not have something suffer because of it...

First half of series light, second half of series serious...Characters like Nerine get fleshed out in the first half dissapear in the second half...Character development given to Sia in the first half is stripped away and her character nuetralized by lame plot device in the second half...Primula arc feeling like it was in a whole different series...Kaede being a zero-factor in the entire series accept for her arc...Asa giving great advice to everyone which makes her appear smart, but uses the dumbest logic ever for not using her powers...The whole Magic concept of the story being ridiculously episodic...on and on...Now everyone's entitled to like what they want, but if Shuffle was a pie you couldn't fit all that filling under one crust...As strange as this sounds I believe you have to have some sense of a coherent focus and not really depend on the audience to dumb themselves down on countless plot points and happenings...

Harem is a genre where you can't please every fan because people are gonna have their favorites, so trying to give everybody a resolution seems beyond pretentious and ultimatley has to betray characters...There's no getting around this...The people that don't seem to praise Shuffle seem to give similiar reasons that I have...Now if your just a fanboy alot of this isn't going to be considered because you may care about something superficial that's gonna make you love the series regardless...Hell Shuffle is extremely popular, most of that is guys and girls liking the characters not necessarily a ride on a coherent roller-coaster...


And it was the one that you probably least expected, Asa.

Well I'm no genious, but I thought ASA would win early on because she was the only girl Rin seemed to be himself around (with the other girls at times he was just trying to be courteus and respectful of their feelings)..Then when the writers started to make characters drop off like asinine flies my only hope was that they didn't do the obvious thing, but they did (They even made Kaede and Sia sacrificial lambs)...
Sia: "Lets set Rin and Asa out on a date yet still secretly love him..." :rolleyes: Kaede: "Asa has given me permission to still love Rin.." (Does it get anymore hurtful and unrealistic than that? I see why her fans want blood)... So I have a different take...

[Rin-Sama]

Well the one thing that this anime also tried to confy is it's potral of real life (excluding the demons and gods of course!) Life is rarely fair. So if it seemed unfair to Kade that's the way life goes!

And true that being inovative and putting a new spin on things could end up hurting you in the end, with SHUFFLE! it actually worked out for the better, it had GREAT character development even though it was only 24 episodes. "They even made Kaede and Sia sacrificial lambs." well buddy that's what happends in just about every harem anime series right? There is always some girl (or guy if it's a reverse harem ex. Fushigi Yuugi) that alwasy has to give up her chances to let the main male character to follow his heart. (Shinobu from Love Hina for example)

About Kaede, yes that was the point to have her seem phazed out until the end, how else were they going to show her psycotic side come back becasue of neglict? And the point of Primula's arc was so everyone could get the jist down of what Project Yadrisllie (spelling!) was really about so they could introduce it into Asa's arc later on to explain why she's so sick.

Asa had her reasons why she didn't want to use her powers. Mainly becasue she felt that she would betray her humanity if she used it and becasue it was after Ama showed her that she wasn't human and cried so hard when Asa was a child which made her not want to see her mother cry again. She beleive that if she did use her powers it would end up hurting her mother for some reason. Yes i know it doesn't make much since but who knows how someone thinks when something effects them so greatly when they are a child.

As for what Sia and Kaede said i think they are the ones being sneaky and ready to backstab Asa at a moments notice. They're just waiting for when one little spat or argument that would cause Asa and Rin to have a "crack" in their relationship and then they will just jump right in to fill it.

Asa and Rin's relationship developed naturually while Sia, Narine, and Kaede tried to force a relationship on him, (Well in Narine's defence she really never tried to force a relationship) that's why he chose Asa in the end.

I agree that an anime will never satisfy everyone. there is always someone who wants it to go different and will complain about it until the last dieing breath. (Kaede fans know what i mean) But that just becasue it didn't go the way you wanted it doesn't mean you still hate it. Most of the time people like, or at least understand, why an anime series went the way it did.

I guess what i am tring to convay is that most animes try to find a compromize between time, character development, plot, and story telling, (with other various values, like comedy, death, unexpected turns etc.) in order to reach the most fans possible and them liking it. No anime will ever get 100% of everyone to like it, but most try to reach the largest portion. SHUFFLE! in my opinion did a GREAT job in succeding to do this to the best of their ability. So in NOWAY will i concider this a bad anime.

And besides this anime was based off of an H-game in the 1st place. So most of the story line that the anime used came from there! If you didn't like how it ended then get the game and have Rin end up with the girl you wanted him to!

[npal]

Well the one thing that this anime also tried to confy is it's potral of real life (excluding the demons and gods of course!) Life is rarely fair. So if it seemed unfair to Kade that's the way life goes!

Remind me why I have to watch life being unfair in entertainment media, too? If you exclude demons, gods, magic and a zombie who can't make any decisions most of the time, that's real life, but then, if we take all of this out, is it still Shuffle? Plus, there's a difference in HOW you tell the audience that life is unfair. It's one thing to make an adventure when someone gives his life so others can live and other to convey the message that backstabbing your friends is part of life.


Asa had her reasons why she didn't want to use her powers. Mainly becasue she felt that she would betray her humanity if she used it and becasue it was after Ama showed her that she wasn't human and cried so hard when Asa was a child which made her not want to see her mother cry again. She beleive that if she did use her powers it would end up hurting her mother for some reason. Yes i know it doesn't make much since but who knows how someone thinks when something effects them so greatly when they are a child.

Strange how most Asa fans don't comment much about Asa's reasoning. Obviously they don't have much to say about irrationality in its glory. Plus, Asa was portrayed as a very logical and intelligent individual who had rationalized why she's not using magic. Eh, if that's the level of reason she can achieve, her whole character development is wrong. If something is unconscious, you either fail to describe it, or it comes up to the surface and you discard it because you see it for what it is. Asa was very kind to describe that she doesn't want to hurt Ama (duh..)

As for what Sia and Kaede said i think they are the ones being sneaky and ready to backstab Asa at a moments notice. They're just waiting for when one little spat or argument that would cause Asa and Rin to have a "crack" in their relationship and then they will just jump right in to fill it.

Asa and Rin's relationship developed naturually while Sia, Narine, and Kaede tried to force a relationship on him, (Well in Narine's defence she really never tried to force a relationship) that's why he chose Asa in the end.

Sneaky and ready to backstab? That's called revenge against the treacherous friend (at least for Kaede). That's the only logical aftermath I can accept.

Sia's relationship didn't develop naturally? Why? Just because she appeared one day and said she's gonna marry him? Well, that could be an interesting pickup line :p But other than that, their relationship was proceeding ok, until Sia got wet feet and Kikyou thought she could do better. I thought the kiss scene in the beach was pretty natural. The only unnatural thing I saw is how Rin neglects Kaede all the time but still loves her as a sister (yeah yeah, love my *ss). RinxAsa relationship is natural, sure, as a product of betrayal from both parties. And yes, I'll say that until my last breath :D.

[wingdarkness]

And true that being inovative and putting a new spin on things could end up hurting you in the end, with SHUFFLE! it actually worked out for the better, it had GREAT character development even though it was only 24 episodes. "They even made Kaede and Sia sacrificial lambs." well buddy that's what happends in just about every harem anime series right? There is always some girl (or guy if it's a reverse harem ex. Fushigi Yuugi) that alwasy has to give up her chances to let the main male character to follow his heart. (Shinobu from Love Hina for example)

But that's the thing, they weren't sacrificial lambs in the sense that they acted rationally and what happened is "Just life"...They were lambs in the sense their character development was betrayed to some extent to resolve their part of the story...It's like, "Oh $hit we only have 5 episodes left so lets kill off Kaede and Sia..." (Based on their actual character development the way they went out seemd forced by the powers that be, not natural progression as seemed to be the case with Shinobu and company)

[Sian]

npal ... if you in fact read what we wrote and not what you want to read to fit your cognitive dissonance ... you can acturally pretty clearly read that everyone agree that the reasoning have a large degree of cognitive dissonance (she thinks that Ama hate the fact that she is a demon and would therefore rather die than remind her about her heritage)...

And yeah ... both Sia and Keade (and to a lesser degree Nerine) was rather pushy and trying to get Rin to chose before he was ready to do it ... yeah, he might be a slowpoke there but thats not the point ... the point is that they are pushy and is pushing him towards Asa who eventhough she let him know that she likes him, just keep nugding him when he reach a standstill and get him moving again (and not pushing him in a certain direction)

and i can no matter how good i look see how Rin retray Keade (i may see the slight point when talking about Sia but that was just a simple turndown)... he sees her only as a sister and nothing more ... thats a basic level of understanding i never think Keade-fans have reached ... would you (theoraticly) think of a girl you lived with since you were 5-6 years old as anything other than a sister?? ... no ... if then you should first find out with yourself if it was incest between brother and sister (and that might be a problem because incest is not just bloodrelated but also socially configured)

Wing: now your talking about failure from the producers about cutting the wire to late

[wingdarkness]

^I'm not sure if it was production or if it had been entirely planned the way I described (Who knows? The results would have been much the same either way)...all I do know is, that's the impression it made on me while watching it...A progression that seemed forced and not one that seemed natural or honest to the prior character dynamics established...But even if that isn't true, something like Kaede's resolution (relationship with Asa included) seemed illogical even if it didn't betray the character (which it still seemed to do)...

[Zelos_Zalis]

That's why i gave this anime a 10. (And having Rin end up with Asa was a plus!) I'm sorry but I have to point this out, like stated in my review, harem/bishojo animes have to hanker down and actually pick a character pairing, which the end result isn't always agreeable for some. I think you give this such a high rating is because you got the ending you wanted to see, others didn't but also thankfully alot of people are not letting their fan-club feelings sway their review (by controlling it, no such feeling, or like me: my girl not even being in the math :p) personaly I don't think I'll ever see a harem anime get a perfect 10. too many ways there can be mistakes.

[Vexx]

I think if many of the posters had prefaced their reviews over the last few pages with the important phrase, "IN MY OPINION" there'd be a lot less flack. Asserting your opinion as if it were fact usually reduces its credibility to any thinking person.

The following is therefore my opinion and based on my experience with literature and drama in general:
Wingdarkness seems to share some of my thoughts about the nature of the progression. I often use the marionette/puppet show metaphor. Really well acted, you forget the strings are there. In Shuffle!'s case, not only do we notice the strings, they damn near rip the puppets apart they are jerked so hard.

From my observation of the series, the "Asa-win" was pretty much a given almost from episode 1, though I hoped the series would stay light-hearted and we'd end up with a polygamous solution for a nice fluffy ending. Nerine had already spotted the Asa submarine by ep 4 and confirmed it to herself just before they went to rescue Primula.

As far as Shuffle! being "mediocre" as a harem series as defined by people who also profess not to like harem genre shows.... <shrug> I think we can sort of discount those. I don't like magical girl shows or "catch the monster" shows so I don't pretend to be expert in which ones are best of their category. I can only provide an opinion of which ones I think are well written or piqued my interest.

Certain arcs of Shuffle! I consider very well written, but the "disjointed" critique I tend to side with. I also believe that a fair amount of the other writing was a serious disservice to the characters, especially Asa. Kaede and Sia got some of the best writing for their arcs (though both got abysmally written cutoffs at the end of their stories). Nerine got incrementally left out and never really got to "play". Asa's character was developed as mature and wise and then they blew it up by making her sound abysmally stupid in her rationale for not using magic (though I have to say her undercutting Kaede made for some good tragedy and flawed character work, it was also violation of the type of character they had made her out to be earlier since she never expressed a bit of concern for Kaede's feelings until Kaede was completely shattered)

I guess I'll never really understand this "root for a girl to win no matter how lame the story was in getting there" mentality. I'd rather see my favorite girl go down in well-written flames and I be able to understand the motivations and rationale for the characters for the decisions they make. In LOTR, I love Boromir and Gollum --- they fail and you understand why. In Paradise Lost, you understand why Lucifer makes his choices. In Shakespeare.. well you get the idea I hope. Anime has great potential for telling really interesting stories.
Shuffle! could have been great light romance comedy, it could have been really good dramatic tragedy... great premise, good character design. It just misfired and a lot of the antagonism about it was because of the potential it had.

[rooboy]

That's interesting, in my opinion, the Kaede arc was the transition from "kind of mediocre, occasionally funny" to "trainwreck bad, can't keep my eyes off of it".

Sort of like Mai Otome when Nagi finally unleashes his "plan".

[Rin-Sama]

Where did it misfire? I really think the producers of SHUFFLE did an exsallent job witht he anime.

I have been an anime fon for 13 years now (off an on for more than 16) and i have watched more than 170 animes so i have seen my share of good and bad animes, and i can say for certian that SHUFFLE! was a VERY good anime series.

[Vexx]

@rin-sama: No... you can say for certain, that in your opinion, it was a good show. We can all pull out our resumes (or make them up). Thats irrelevant. I think you're missing the point about "sacrificial lambs" ... girls will go down in flames, but the writing quality in how it happens determines the believability of it (and whether fans of that particular girl keep watching). As for where it misfired, my conversation with roo-boy follows...

@devilen: "she thinks that Ama hate the fact that she is a demon and would therefore rather die than remind her about her heritage" .... thats actually a bit more reasonable ... problem that isn't what she said. I contend a lot of damage could be repaired without a single change to animation with some dialog fixes to Asa's reasoning and the Kaede-Asa conversation.

@rooboy: well.... I *liked* Shuffle! up to the Kaede arc because it was fairly "light" fluff romance comedy. The Nerine/Primula arc was a bit serious but it was more of a "harem team fights to protect one of the gang" sort of serious. Sia went down in flames but the viewer could follow her mistakes and why it happened. I particularly liked Sia's arc from a writing and directing perspective. I was a bit disappointed at Nerine not getting similar treatment but they chose to focus on her and Primula's issues rather than her "game" with Rin. The whole series we're getting Asa clues from Nerine's observations and Rin's oblique comments.
Then we hit the Kaede arc .... where things went massively dark and broody. This was excellent stuff BUT in no way fit the mood of the first 16 episodes. It was seriously tragic stuff. My first reaction was the usual "wtf" but then I decided that it might get really interesting (though in a totally different way). I actually wondered if they'd swapped out the writing team. It made me reconsider Kaede's sickness episode and the bleakness of that odd little breakfast conversation early in the series where Rin tries to get her to take it easier and you can hear her strings tighten.

Then just about the time we might have gotten some Shakespearean level drama with Asa not even thinking about Kaede, someone she had almost helped raise, we get to the Asa and Kaede confrontation ... and someone let all the air out of the tires. Kaede whimpered off after Asa cried with her and proclaimed herself a monster, but not worried enough so that she was happily kissing Rin a few moments later... and "permitting Kaede to love Rin from afar"? How messed up is that? Talk about a writer mistreating their characters...

Then we got the Asa-Rin main arc. The one where Asa suddenly stops making sense "I'm going to die before I use magic because I don't want to see my mother cry" ... I guess its okay for her to cry after Asa dies...? The whole sequence had the feel of sudden character redesign, something like having Captain Kirk decide to take up knitting and cry when he has to do violent things.

Then.. after all this tumult ... in the last episode the viewers are tortured with the lowest quality animation of the series (and most offmodel drawings) along with one of the lamest "situation reset" attempts I've ever seen. I suppose we can assume they're all going for slot #2 and #3 --- but we're going to have to convince Asa that monogamy (her societal norm) is okay to toss aside for polygamy. Thank gods for the Ama-Kings encounter which almost made up for all the other nonsense... that was beautiful.

I'm a big fan of what Shuffle! could have been.. hell I bought all the figures and some of the CDs. Despite the above flaws, I did rate it a 7 for the pieces and segments that were good. But I'm still trying to figure out where they thought they were being innovative and when I compare it to other so-called "harem anime" it comes out mediocre (yes, i've seen much worse but I've also seen much better) ... it comes out worse when I throw the series into "top anime of any type" ranking. And of course, thats my opinion but I've pointed out the specific pieces that cause me to think that way.

[rooboy]

I think a lot of you are misconstruing what I meant. I gave Shuffle a seven , based purely on entertainment value, in my opinion it's not better written than the average harem anime, but it's not worse either.
There's two kinds of trainwrecks: bad ones and entertaining ones. Shuffle was the entertaining variety. Well written? Not even the Kaede arc that seems so well-loved around here was particularly well written. That doesn't prevent it from being enjoyable or entertaining. I find people generally have a tendency to want to find evidence that indicates something they enjoy is good while something they don't is bad. Usually it's just average. It's okay to like things that are average.
To me, a rating of 7 indicates that it's a normal example of it's genre, meaning that people who like the genre should all watch it, as they'll enjoy it, people who aren't interested in the genre should probably pass on it, as there's nothing there for you. An 8 would indicate that people who have a light interest in the genre (like me and horror) should check it out, as it is a great example of it's genre (in retrospect, months later, I think I probably should have given it an 8, but I can't really change my vote now). A 9 would indicate that people who don't usually watch the genre, but are interested in anime should watch it, it's a transcendant moment for it's genre. A 10 would indicate that even people who don't normally like anime should check it out (there are a very few series that I would give a ten to, and I can't think of one harem anime in the bunch).
I thought the humor was (generally speaking) pretty funny for the first half. Once it went into full-on melodrama (it's not drama, it's melodrama, and particularly overwrought as well. The sign of all good soap opera :heh: ), I liked that too.
I loved the shtick about showing people in windows in the corners. I liked the backstory and the character designs. I liked the characters themselves. Well, excepting Kaede, but that's not because of the insanity reason as much as it is the whole "model wife/doormat" thing that I've never been particularly fond of. Actually, the insanity thing raised my interest in Kaede a great deal. I was pulling for a scene where Asa would wake up in the hospital with Kaede standing over her chanting "Kaede and Rin forever" (sort of like that scene from Magikano) with a knife in her hand in episode 20.
I own Shuffle figurines and actually went and bought the game (and Tick!Tack!), though I only ever managed to play through the Kaede and Sia arcs (translating was taking entirely too long). I think I might even still have it installed (hard drive space is rather ample on my computer).
And actually Vexx, you gave it an 8, you can click on the link to see what people voted for. I find this particularly amusing since your arguments (generally speaking, here and on other threads) seem to indicate that you graded it too high and mine (generally) seem to indicate I went too low, but I have to admit that I enjoyed Shuffle a lot despite it's flaws.

EDIT: I should point out that all of this is, obviously, in my own opinion.

EDIT 2: Dude, how can you you justify giving a capsule overview to Ama, but not to Kareha, the star of the show? ;)
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

[Rin-Sama]

1 thing about Asa's reasoning is that everyone has their own battles in life. Asa of course was the supposed to be the logical/playful mother type, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have her own demons in life to deal with (no pun intended.) All the girls had some sort of "demon" in their lives.

Narine a seemingly timid and cute young princess has a mean temper and an enormous amount of power to wield. Plus she has had to suffer with losing her clone Lycious. That's her down side.

Primula a seemingly shy, quiet girl ended up being an artifical lifeform with an even bigger amount of power and in most cases as sick as Asa becasue she wasn't able to control her power. Nearly killed everyone at one point!

Sia a seemingly cute and energetic young princess actually turned out to have a darker more well to put it bluntly "sluttly" side to her. When in the womb she and her twin Kikyou merged to become 1 being with Sia being the domonint one.

Kaede. Oh yes seemingly helpful, cute, careing, and lovable Kaede. We all know what is wrong with her. She actually has a VERY violent psycotic side. When she doesn't feel apperiated or noticed she reverts to this state in order to get noticed. That's is a VERY dangerous girl. Even more so than a girl like Naru from Love Hina.

Ama a seemingly lovable cute mother. Yes she is all of these but she is also an artifical Life form and was forced to hide herself while in the human realm. She has only reveled her true nature to her husband and Daughter and more recently to Rin.

and finnaly Asa. Seemingly the logical motherly playful type was always there to help out either Rin or one of the girls (EX. traching Kaede and Narine how to cook) but she also hid the fact that she was a half-breed. And in Japanese culture "half-breeds" are actually looked down apon. This is one little fact that Japan has been able to hide for the most part. Think of her like being a female version of Inuyasha. Except she wants to be all human and not deamon. Asa has had to deal with being sick and knowing she's a half-breed ever since she was a little child. And it's not something she likes to talk about. That's why i beleive it's so hard for her to deal with her sickness and magical abilities. Try to see it from her point of view instead of "well if i were her" kind of view.

As for allowing Kaede to love Rin from afar i think that was nice of her to do. yeah sure it still may hurt to see Rin and Asa together, but i beleive people would have gotten even more upset if the producers had Asa just tell Kaede off and tell her to leave her man alone. ASA IS NOT LIKE THAT PEOPLE! Not every girl will allow her guy to still hang out with girls that are after his heart also you know.

[wingdarkness]

Where did it misfire? I really think the producers of SHUFFLE did an exsallent job witht he anime.

I have been an anime fon for 13 years now (off an on for more than 16) and i have watched more than 170 animes so i have seen my share of good and bad animes, and i can say for certian that SHUFFLE! was a VERY good anime series.


^The amount of anime you've watched should have no bearing on this...For all we know you've watched 170 sub-par animes...Who knows? Anime for the most part are stories that you'll find comparably in movies, TV dramas and other multimedia...I won't bombard you any further because you seem to have an unshakeable love for SHUFFLE (Which is fine), but it really doesn't serve your interest to respond with "I Love Shuffle! and I've seen like 200 anime series", when someone makes a substance-heavy critique of the show...


Asa has had to deal with being sick and knowing she's a half-breed ever since she was a little child. And it's not something she likes to talk about. That's why i beleive it's so hard for her to deal with her sickness and magical abilities. Try to see it from her point of view instead of "well if i were her" kind of view.


Yeah...For a person who had been sick their whole life it came quite a shock to Kaede and Rin (people who had known her for a while) and never seen her ever pass out or anything...They've known her for years never once did she get sick (At school she's seen as a pretty decent perfectly fine athlete aswell)...But once she gets her magical disease she's passing out every 5 seconds in every situation (Did her terminal disease just vanish for like 2, 3 years and then just came back?)...Just another illogical muse that Shuffle offers...Now I can ignore that if you can, doesn't make it any less psuedo-sensical though...

[evil-samurai]

As for allowing Kaede to love Rin from afar i think that was nice of her to do. yeah sure it still may hurt to see Rin and Asa together, but i beleive people would have gotten even more upset if the producers had Asa just tell Kaede off and tell her to leave her man alone. ASA IS NOT LIKE THAT PEOPLE! Not every girl will allow her guy to still hang out with girls that are after his heart also you know.You cant be serous, Its NOT up to Asa to allow somone else to love Rin. That (Asa's line) is the most stupid line I've ever heard >.>

Its like me telling you, you can love me because I said so O.o and if I say you cant love me, then you cant. Love just isn't like that. Kaede might love Rin for the rest of her life and it has nothing to do with what Asa says.

Asa is not like what... well I do know that she is the last person I would want as a friend, A Backstabing Bitch friend like Asa wouldn't sit well with me.

Again its not up to Asa to Allow! Rin to hang out with the Girls.

I would Dearly Love to hear Asa go up to Primula and Say, "Back off you Cant go near Rin". Oh! the joy to see Asa get blown up into Space :heh: (though of course if we use the anime rule "everyone is nice and we live in fairly land" it might not happen)

EDIT//

@ rooboy666 love! your avatar and while other people normally say they have to have a border, I dont think so, it looks good as it is. Nice Work ^^

[Vexx]

I think a lot of you are misconstruing ... even still have it installed (hard drive space is rather ample on my computer).
And actually Vexx, you gave it an 8, you can click on the link to see what people voted for. I find this particularly amusing since your arguments (generally speaking, here and on other threads) seem to indicate that you graded it too high and mine (generally) seem to indicate I went too low, but I have to admit that I enjoyed Shuffle a lot despite it's flaws.

EDIT: I should point out that all of this is, obviously, in my own opinion.

EDIT 2: Dude, how can you you justify giving a capsule overview to Ama, but not to Kareha, the star of the show? ;)


Ah... caught my flaky memory on what I scored it. I do remember flipping tween 7 and 8 a number of times and giving it the benefit of the doubt. I loved the "arrow closeup reaction shots" ... they were the most novel thing about the series.

I *really* like your explanation of scoring 7-10, will use that for future polls as guidance. I also really can't find anything to disagree with in your post (though my post was a little harsher).

I still flip back and forth between 7 and 8, mostly because I enjoyed specific episodes... kind of like I don't dump Negima simply because I loved episode 19 and specific scenes in other episodes.

When I compare the show to, say, Canvas 2 (which waits until the last 10 seconds to implode) or Mahoraba (which I consider pretty stellar throughout minus a few scenes here and there) or (Love Hina, mostly because its an early classic -despite being a plot mess and failing to really end). It comes in kind of average as I really don't class it with things like Magikano, PPD, Azumanga, or other branches of comedy, melodrama, or romance. I do recommend it for having "elf-ear cuteness", some interesting sci-fi/magic roots, the Itsuki&Mayumi comedy hour, and a lot of pieces of nice things.

[Rin-Sama]

^The amount of anime you've watched should have no bearing on this...For all we know you've watched 170 sub-par animes...Who knows? Anime for the most part are stories that you'll find comparably in movies, TV dramas and other multimedia...I won't bombard you any further because you seem to have an unshakeable love for SHUFFLE (Which is fine), but it really doesn't serve your interest to respond with "I Love Shuffle! and I've seen like 200 anime series", when someone makes a substance-heavy critique of the show...

I think it has ALOT to do with ranking SHUFFLE! I have been an anime fan longer then most people here i bet (I remember watching Robotech back in the 80's when i was very little) I mearly used my experiance to judge SHUFFLE! I've seen anime from the very good (Appleseed, Inuyasha, Ghost in the Shell) to the very horrid (Yu-gi-oh, Super Milk Chan, and Magical Do Ri Mi). You might not have been an anime fan as long as i have but once you've been a fan of anime for more than 10 years you'll have enough experance to know what make a good anime and what doesn't. SHUFFLE! From my experance is GREAT anime. I would recomend it to anyone who is old enough to watch it. :cool: And yes i still do get "gitty" when a good anime comes out.


Yeah...For a person who had been sick their whole life it came quite a shock to Kaede and Rin (people who had known her for a while) and never seen her ever pass out or anything...They've known her for years never once did she get sick (At school she's seen as a pretty decent perfectly fine athlete aswell)...But once she gets her magical disease she's passing out every 5 seconds in every situation (Did her terminal disease just vanish for like 2, 3 years and then just came back?)...Just another illogical muse that Shuffle offers...Now I can ignore that if you can, doesn't make it any less psuedo-sensical though...

It's takes time for magical powers to bulid up to dangerous levels. The only reason why she was always sick when she was a child is becasue her small body wasn't strong enough to supress the side effects. But as she got older and her body bigger and stronger she was able to surpress it. (That's way she seemed normal for a long while. But she supressed it for so long it built up to dangerous levels. So when it reached critacal levels it hit her body hard and was killing her.

Think of it this way. If you boil water in a small glass with a small lid on it it will quickly blow the lid off. - This would represent Asa as a child. (Theory! - Every time Asa coughed or trembled when she was a child i think thoese were small releases of magic "pressure", OR her mother showed her how to use magic. This is probably the more like senerio becasue how else did she know how to use it to save Rin!:heh: )

But If you put water in a large pressure cooker and clamp the lid shut, it would take longer for the steam to build up, but eventually in time if you don't release the pressure it will blow. - this represents Asa when her sickness nearly killed her. That's why when she DID release her magic it erupted so brightly, causeing her hair to grow long as a side effect.

And if your thinking "well if she had so much preasure, when she DID release it why didn't it blow like when Narine blew up the Gym?" well becasue she was concentrating it onto Rin to save his life du'h!

[wingdarkness]

I think it has ALOT to do with ranking SHUFFLE! I have been an anime fan longer then most people here i bet (I remember watching Robotech back in the 80's when i was very little) I mearly used my experiance to judge SHUFFLE! I've seen anime from the very good (Appleseed, Inuyasha, Ghost in the Shell) to the very horrid (Yu-gi-oh, Super Milk Chan, and Magical Do Ri Mi). You might not have been an anime fan as long as i have but once you've been a fan of anime for more than 10 years you'll have enough experance to know what make a good anime and what doesn't. SHUFFLE! From my experance is GREAT anime. I would recomend it to anyone who is old enough to watch it. :cool: And yes i still do get "gitty" when a good anime comes out.


I'm gonna bite my tounge here and not just totally go off...Trust me friend I've seen as much if not more than you...Definatley more than 10 years (eventhough that can easily be irrelevant) and still find SHUFFLE to be extremely sub-par, extremely pretentious and sporadic mess of a series with a taurd of a main character that requires mental suppression to get thru (and I dig harem anime)...One man's interesting, innovative concept is another man's idiotic mess...To mention it even in the same breath as something like GITSSAC could perhaps get your anime-card revoked (Figuring out the mysterious in that series vs. figuring out Asa would win is a joke in comparison)...No need to preach to me, as a writer I understand everything from conception to skeleton concepts to story-creation and the writers of SHuffle failed to impress me as much as they agitated me...If you think Shuffle is one of the greatest animes of all time you might wanna toss that anime experience down the nearest commode...Now I don't have a problem that you were seduced by a haremy harem and were overjoyed that the character you loved won, but spare me and everyone here the logic of them having to be atleast a 10 year or whatever veteran of anime to understand how utterly average many aspects of this program was...You could be a 100 year anime veteran or this could be your first ever show and using comon sense you could point out the flaws...Once again I've noticed that people who totally love Shuffle still acknowledge the flaws, they just care about other things, like fanservice, the girls' cuteness//interaction with one another, what they percieve as comedy, etc., (and that's fine)...


It's takes time for magical powers to bulid up to dangerous levels. The only reason why she was always sick when she was a child is becasue her small body wasn't strong enough to supress the side effects. But as she got older and her body bigger and stronger she was able to surpress it. (That's way she seemed normal for a long while. But she supressed it for so long it built up to dangerous levels. So when it reached critacal levels it hit her body hard and was killing her.

Think of it this way. If you boil water in a small glass with a small lid on it it will quickly blow the lid off. - This would represent Asa as a child. (Theory! - Every time Asa coughed or trembled when she was a child i think thoese were small releases of magic "pressure", OR her mother showed her how to use magic. This is probably the more like senerio becasue how else did she know how to use it to save Rin!:heh: )

But If you put water in a large pressure cooker and clamp the lid shut, it would take longer for the steam to build up, but eventually in time if you don't release the pressure it will blow. - this represents Asa when her sickness nearly killed her. That's why when she DID release her magic it erupted so brightly, causeing her hair to grow long as a side effect.

And if your thinking "well if she had so much preasure, when she DID release it why didn't it blow like when Narine blew up the Gym?" well becasue she was concentrating it onto Rin to save his life du'h!

Yeah the magic disease started killing her once she realised she was in a harem anime :uhoh:...It took like a hiatus to let the plot-develop o_O...So basically your trying to pass this made-up theory of yours as proof to validate something that doesn't have much validity to begin with...Whatever helps you sleep a night, I can't be swayed with pure conjecture, sorry...

[rooboy]

EDIT//
@ rooboy666 love! your avatar and while other people normally say they have to have a border, I dont think so, it looks good as it is. Nice Work ^^I actually have a version with the border I made as well, but for some reason I like the way the backgrounds in that scene blend into the normal Animesuki colors. So I use the border one on my cell phone and the one without here. :) I'm very impressed you even noticed, most people wouldn't have. :) I also think I should say (since I'm getting like four or five PMs a day asking me what show it's from), that it's Magikano. :) Ah... caught my flaky memory on what I scored it. I do remember flipping tween 7 and 8 a number of times and giving it the benefit of the doubt. I loved the "arrow closeup reaction shots" ... they were the most novel thing about the series.Actually, I only caught you because before I posted the first time I was curious what _I_ finally scored it. Like I said, I found it particularly amusing because if you read our comments in most places, you'd think you scored it lower and I scored it higher. Which really just highlights the whole stupidity of scoring systems like this anyway. I think the arrow closeup thing might have been the most novel thing I've seen in an ero game conversion this *year* (possibly ever). Really, they're all basically the same: pretty girls, mysterious pasts and dark secrets, resolution, choice. The devil is in the details. :)I *really* like your explanation of scoring 7-10, will use that for future polls as guidance. I also really can't find anything to disagree with in your post (though my post was a little harsher).I had plenty to disagree with in your post, but I ended up erasing most of it when I was previewing. I've realized that Shuffle is good enough to watch again, but not good enough to waste hours on the same arguments over and over (especially when two people are essentially rating it the same). :)
I think the rating system I use makes sense, but I have a teaching/training background, so it's ingrained in me to think of a 7 (or 70%) as meeting requirements. Once I get into six and below we're talking about the bad outweighing the good, though I usually consider it to have entertainment value down to a five or so (one of my favorites is Final Approach, but I don't think I could rate it higher than a five). The thing I like about my rating system is it takes into account the genre, but still allows for comparison between different genres. I will admit that part of the reason I should have graded Shuffle an 8 was I didn't really take into account the level of competition, which is spectacularly poor in ero-game to anime conversions. The only one I think really deserves an 8 is Lamune, possibly Da Capo, Shuffle, and Fate/Stay Night.
I personally thought the Sia arc was the highlight of the entire show, but then I have a "thing" for red hair and aggressive girls and I have ever since I was like five.I still flip back and forth between 7 and 8, mostly because I enjoyed specific episodes... kind of like I don't dump Negima simply because I loved episode 19 and specific scenes in other episodes.
When I compare the show to, say, Canvas 2 (which waits until the last 10 seconds to implode) or Mahoraba (which I consider pretty stellar throughout minus a few scenes here and there) or (Love Hina, mostly because its an early classic -despite being a plot mess and failing to really end). It comes in kind of average as I really don't class it with things like Magikano, PPD, Azumanga, or other branches of comedy, melodrama, or romance. I do recommend it for having "elf-ear cuteness", some interesting sci-fi/magic roots, the Itsuki&Mayumi comedy hour, and a lot of pieces of nice things.I should have clarified that I really don't consider it a harem anime as much as an ero-game conversion. I think of Love Hina as a 6 (but the manga as more like an 8 or 9), Mahoroba an 8 (possibly a 9), Magikano a 7, and Negima a 5 (though the anime has moments, the Negima manga is almost a 10).
I've always considered Azumanga a slice of life show (though with a serious comedy bent) not unlike Ah My Goddess, AD I'd probably give a 10 (one of a handful, the others below), AMG a 7 (though the AMG manga would rate significantly higher).
PPD is a random satire show (like South Park or the Simpsons). I think it's probably an 8 because it's a little too dense for casual anime fans, and definitely too self-referential for people who don't watch anime. Though it _is_ still funny even if you don't get most of the references ('cause I know I don't :) ).
I think the 10's would consist of Azumanga Daioh, GiTS: SAC 2nd GiG, Fullmetal Alchemist, Cowboy Bebop, and (maybe) Fruits Basket. They are the only five that I would have no problem recommending to someone who didn't already watch anime. Note that I don't consider these my five favorite shows, that would be R O D the TV, Noir, Fullmetal Alchemist, Full Metal Panic (with all associated spin off seasons), and School Rumble.
Canvas2 I think I would give a 6 to, it's flawed enough that not all ero-game conversion fans should give it the time of day. Essentially I think it trying to hit a niche as a pseudo-slice of life show (without having any of the winning elements of slice of life). The romance is non-existant, the conflict is just about non-existant, the character growth is just about non-existant (and mostly forced, I mean, really, why precisely did Elis start using red? and Hiroki start painting?), it has none of the good melodrama I expect from ero game conversions. Basically a show that's just sort of blah, and doesn't really exude any character whatsoever. Or to put it another way, yes, it follows it's plot points nicely (except for that last ten seconds). But if the plot points involve a cow wandering across a meadow, should it be considered good for getting all the stops correct?
At least Shuffle had the interesting identity subtext going on. Rin trying to live his life by meeting everyone's expectations (and failing). Kaede trying to live her life as an extension of Rin because of her guilt (and failing). Asa trying to struggle against her heritage (and failing). Each of them has to learn that each of us is responsible for our own life, and no one else can tell you how to live it, and no one else can make you happy, it comes from inside you.
Nerine struggling with whether the cost of her life was worth Lycoris'. Sia trying to figure out if it's okay for her to be happy at the expense of others happiness. Primula trying to integrate her emotions with the rest of her psyche, which basically asks the question, are we our emotions, or is it something else that makes us ourselves? Shuffle (like Da Capo) was big on theme (which I've noticed is a common point in the ero game conversions). I spent days trying to figure out what the theme was supposed to be in Canvas (hoping that it might have made that 12 hours of my life worthwhile), but never could figure it out, no one else apparently figured it out. So it's now dropped in my ratings.
EDIT: I've watched anime for over fifteen years (yes, my posted age is correct). I can remember watching Gatchaman and some giant robot show on my local independent channel when I was seven or eight (this was before there was a FOX network, forget the WB and/or UPN), does it really matter? This whole half of the conversation has devolved into "mine's bigger than yours".

And, for the record, Shuffle has some of the best fanservice of any anime I've ever seen (discounting the PPD's and Excel Saga's of the world). Namely, the inclusion of Tsubomi, a character who serves no purpose but to please fans of the game who recognize her. :)

EDIT 2: As often happens, I forgot a series that I consider a 10: Planetes. I'm not really sure how I missed it, as it's also one of my absolute favorite series.

[Rin-Sama]

I'm gonna bite my tounge here and not just totally go off...Trust me friend I've seen as much if not more than you...Definatley more than 10 years (eventhough that can easily be irrelevant) and still find SHUFFLE to be extremely sub-par, extremely pretentious and sporadic mess of a series with a taurd of a main character that requires mental suppression to get thru (and I dig harem anime)...One man's interesting, innovative concept is another man's idiotic mess...To mention it even in the same breath as something like GITSSAC could perhaps get your anime-card revoked (Figuring out the mysterious in that series vs. figuring out Asa would win is a joke in comparison)...No need to preach to me, as a writer I understand everything from conception to skeleton concepts to story-creation and the writers of SHuffle failed to impress me as much as they agitated me...If you think Shuffle is one of the greatest animes of all time you might wanna toss that anime experience down the nearest commode...Now I don't have a problem that you were seduced by a haremy harem and were overjoyed that the character you loved won, but spare me and everyone here the logic of them having to be atleast a 10 year or whatever veteran of anime to understand how utterly average many aspects of this program was...You could be a 100 year anime veteran or this could be your first ever show and using comon sense you could point out the flaws...Once again I've noticed that people who totally love Shuffle still acknowledge the flaws, they just care about other things, like fanservice, the girls' cuteness//interaction with one another, what they percieve as comedy, etc., (and that's fine)...

Truth be told i HATED GITSSAC and GITSI. I loved the origanl only. the other 2 ruined it. 16 years of watchin anime i think i know MORE about anime than you. I am also a writer and i ALSO know what goes into making a good story. SHUFFLE! is a good story. And i have mentioned before that NO anime is totally perfect. But the good parts of SHUFFLE! FAR out wieghed what you think are bad parts. Yes i am a fan of harem animes/mangas, but even if i wasn't i know i would have loved SHUFFLE! anyway. BTW i was just putting Ghost in the Shell and SHUFFLE! into the GOOD anime section not the bad Anime section, this was including all good animes i have seen. And if you must complin about the story, complain to Navel the makers of the game. 85% of the story line of the anime came from there. INCLUDING ASA'S SICKNESS! and i will admit that there may have been a few flaws, but EVERY anime has those. However the one's in SHUFFLE! were too minor to hurt it any.

And you need to realize this is supposed to be a friendly debate on the reasons why SHUFFLE! was good or not, there is NO NEED to insult me. (yes i know i said bad taste but it's not as far as what you said about flshing my anime experiance down the toliet.)

Yeah the magic disease started killing her once she realised she was in a harem anime :uhoh:...It took like a hiatus to let the plot-develop o_O...So basically your trying to pass this made-up theory of yours as proof to validate something that doesn't have much validity to begin with...Whatever helps you sleep a night, I can't be swayed with pure conjecture, sorry...

Let's hear you come up with a better reason? :mad: I think my reason is a damn good reason why Asa was sick as a child and then later in her life.

[wingdarkness]

Truth be told i HATED GITSSAC and GITSI. I loved the origanl only. the other 2 ruined it. 16 years of watchin anime i think i know MORE about anime than you. I am also a writer and i ALSO know what goes into making a good story. SHUFFLE! is a good story. And i have mentioned before that NO anime is totally perfect. But the good parts of SHUFFLE! FAR out wieghed what you think are bad parts. Yes i am a fan of harem animes/mangas, but even if i wasn't i know i would have loved SHUFFLE! anyway. BTW i was just putting Ghost in the Shell and SHUFFLE! into the GOOD anime section not the bad Anime section, this was including all good animes i have seen. And if you must complian about the story, complain to Navel the makers of the game. 85% of the story line of the anime came from there. INCLUDING ASA'S SICKNESS! and i will admit that there may have been a few flaws, but EVERY anime has those. However the one's in SHUFFLE! were too minor to hurt it any.

And you need to realize this is supposed to be a friendly debate on the reasons why SHUFFLE! was good or not, there is NO NEED to insult me. (yes i know i said bad taste but it's not as far as what you said about flshing my anime experiance down the toliet.)

Never meant to be insultful, but I indeed meant to be somewhat harsh...Like I said before I have no problem with anybody loving whatever they love, but don't profess your anime-intelligence or experience as a magic rabbit you pulled outta your hat to impress...Guess what I've been watching anime for 17 years (a year more than you)...Does that make my opinion or critical analysis on Shuffle more or less substantial? Not really...If your talking about slapping sense into kids who think Beybladers and Medabots are all that anime has to offer fine, but if you wanna use your anime-credentials to dispell the obvious flaws (That people who even LOVE SHUFFLE ADMIT TO) that's where I start posting-up red octagons (STOP SIGNS)...


There's a difference between complaining and having a critical discussion...I assume we're all sitting at the BIG-KIDS table so lets have a discussion like actual adults...A member like Vexx who really likes Shuffle can also put his personal feelings aside to have a debate based on critical analysis alone...I gave Shuffle a 4-5, while he gave Shuffle a 7-8 yet we still agree on many points of critical reasoning...The difference is that your debate is littered with fanboy reasonings...And me being a person that likes to debate anime topics, I refuse to engage in one that has to rely on that...You don't see me saying "Shuffle sucks" and running outta the thread like a troll or with big-lettering in my sig that says "KAEDE FTW!!!!" I choose to post because I enjoy breaking down and debating various aspects of animated shows...If you deem that complaining your letting your fanboy-hand show quite early in the deal...

As for your GITSSAC comments that indeed doesn't gain you any cashe in my eyes...To compare something as mentally and visually engaging to some half fluff/half serious fanservice harem anime doesn't do your anime-experience much good IMHO, but for every person that loves that series there's another who finds it overly talkative or not easy to follow...To say you hate it gives me some pespective into your pysche...For better for worse...



Let's hear you come up with a better reason (For Asa's sick scenerio)? :mad: I think my reason is a damn good reason why Asa was sick as a child and then later in her life.
Your right it was a good reason, too bad the anime didn't flesh it out in anyway close to as comprhensive and understandable as you tried to to put your favorite character in a favorable light...You see...that's the downsize of letting your fanboyism show...You open yourself up to comebacks just like the one I just mentioned...So continue in any manner you want, and don't take my harsh words too seriously because they won't come unless you continue to use your anime-experience and fan-love as reasonings for why others don't understand your stance...There's no reason why people can't be extremely critical and still like Shuffle too I guess...I'll give Shuffle some credit though because, the series and it's pretentious ending, agitated me enuff to motivate me into discussing it...

[Rin-Sama]

So what if im an Otaku? What the hell does that got to do with dumbing down my credit in being someone who has alot of experiance in watching anime!?

You think that being someone who has seen more animes then the average person shouldn't count toward judging another anime. Well i say the more you've watched the more experiance and reliable you are TO judge an anime.

You may have not wanted to sound insulting but you did.

[Vexx]

I *could* point out that when rin-sama was little in the 80s, I was already graduated from college and my first so-called anime was Astroboy, Speedracer, and Gigantor back in the 1960s the *first* time any anime hit American airwaves (and let us not forget Ultraman in the 70s)....
Frankly, if I had to call "first insult" it would be rin-sama for explicitly claiming he's an expert and implicitly saying anyone who disagrees with him is wrong and should shut up. Words carry context.

Many of us treat this forum like a book club: we can love a book and still see it has flaws in it... or vice versa. We like to analyze it, look at the mechanics of storytelling, notice the techniques of animation, and compare character archetypes and how they are implemented from story to story.

I can think of a lot of good theories and rationalizations for why Asa and other characters did what they did --- but it ISN'T onscreen. Good writing would contain this material or exposition of it.

Now... I follow rin-sama's Asa magic theory and it is pretty much described onscreen that way in much shorter dialog .... but we got contradictory information. Ama claims she's been having these spells since she was little. Rin and Kaede, despite being at their house A LOT and despite Asa spending that time plus time at school teaching Kaede to cook, neither ever had a clue Asa was sickly. Thats a plot hole.
Ama continued to hide her demonhood even after the portals were open because she was afraid they'd come retrieve her.... not a plothole.
Mayumi is 17... I originally thought her to be a plot hole (portals are only 10 years old) but realized her human and demon parent - one must have slipped across as Nadesico lectured about beforehand. So no plothole there.
Everyone keeps telling Rin he's the only one who can "save Asa" but no one says how... though its pretty clear he's going to have to do something massively drastic to get her to use magic.... since they were all being opaque it is difficult to avoid the idea they were all suggesting he try to kill himself to get Asa's attention.
And why did Asa stay with him after she had to break her vow to save him? Why couldn't Ama tell her daughter she was an idiot for thinking her mother didn't want her to use magic?

See, now I'm getting into the weak writing in Asa's arc --- the real tragedy is it wouldn't take much to repair this stuff (yes, the game arc is lame too in this respect).

Its okay to love a show and still see the flaws in it... or to dislike a show and still see it has good points. Anything else is just mindless drone worship or hate. Negima, the anime, still makes me irritable ... such wasted opportunity. Yet I keep the show around because there are good points to it I like.

If you've watched a lot of anime but have no experience in literary or media analysis, I'm not sure how that automatically gives you an edge.

[Rin-Sama]

"Frankly, if I had to call "first insult" it would be rin-sama saying anyone who disagrees with him is wrong and should shut up."

I NEVER SAID THAT ONCE!

To you old schoolers i never meant to insult. All I said was I had more experiance than MOST people. I never said i had THE most experiance. Even me with 16 years of anime experiance is still alot more than what most people have in anime. you have to at least admit that.

Also the Mayumi loop-hole is actually just an error in the script writers side. It suppossed to be the portal has been open for 20 years. Not 10.

"Everyone keeps telling Rin he's the only one who can "save Asa" but no one says how."

BS. Everyone knows in order to save her life she has to use her magic. But Asa won't use it. So everyone thinks that Rin would be the most likely to convice her to do so. That's why everyone says he's the only only one who can save her. You probably ment HOW to convince her. Seriously if the people knew how to convince her wouldn't they have done it already? That's why it took Rin slicing his rist in order to force Asa to release her magic.

"Why couldn't Ama tell her daughter she was an idiot for thinking her mother didn't want her to use magic?"

How many times do you think she has tried already? If Asa won't listen to her then Ama asks Rin to do it. Besides what kind of plot would that be if Ama convincered Asa to use her magic in the 1st place? We wouldn't have a dramatic plot then and that would hurt the story worse then what you say it is.

All in all i never said that SHUFFLE! didn't have any flaws. I said was that it really didn't have enough flaws in it to really hurt the story. Every anime has it's flaws some more some less. I doubt ther will ever be a "flawless" anime.

All in all i know what your guys are trying to say. I just wish you would stop tring to discredit my reasons for likeing the show.

(if you stop i'll stop)

[npal]

You know, I wasn't even born before the 80s but I did get my hands on Astroboy :D Although probably the first remake not the original 60's version, but I could be wrong :p Damn, I watching anime all my life, I can remember anime from the age of 3, and they were taking up half or more of my time (the rest being Disney and such). You won't see me boasting about being a good anime judge with all that "experience" I have. I just like the media, have no literature/writing background but I still just based on personal preference. The difference between me judging and someone else is that I usually find flaws that the majority agrees with. If I like the show, why bother defending it. I just state that it was nice, if I can't find no flaw. I certainly say it's my opinion (since if you just like the show, you can't be sure whether it's you or the show is really ok). Like how I like Bleach fillers when most seem to hate them and point to plot holes and stuff :p Maybe most Bleach viewers are more analytic than myself, or I'm outright blind, but whatever, I still think the fillers are nice. I am the one who will agree however that at some points, characters designs are off, as people have suggested.

To sum up, I'm no animation or literature expert, but that doesn't make my opinion count less that a self-proclaimed experienced critic. If nothing else, I'm the average viewer and my opinion counts more than a critic's :D.

Sure I could say that anyone who doesn't like Card Captor Sakura has no taste, or any other of my top anime, but that's just me. Although I do question a person's stability when he likes particular types of shows, as in horror, excessive blood and gore, tasteless ecchi and fanservice until you puke etc etc etc :p But again, that's just me.

[Vexx]

rin-sama, you're a funny guy .... you missed the word "implicit" in my description of how you were portraying people who disagreed with you.

Experience doesn't equal quality.... just because I've done something for X years doesn't mean I'm good at it... take golf for example.

Um.... where's your information that the portal age is a script writer error from? The show says 10 years in multiple places, Nadesico has a lecture explaining that the races knew about people slipping away and when the portals were opened, they discovered where they went. Thats a clear onscreen explanation which covers Mayumi's heritage. No need to invoke "script writer error".
It wasn't a plot hole... I only originally thought it was. Read my post more carefully.

We can agree to differ on whether the "Rin the only one who can do it" theme was weak or not.

The thing is we never saw Ama or anyone else try to talk sense into Asa... another onscreen issue. If Ama had even said "I've tried to talk to her, can you try?" that would have repaired it. My contention over all is that the writers lacked the skill to convey in a consistent manner the important plot points that connected the story together. If I had to make this many assumptions in a book, movie, or television show it'd be ripped apart by the viewers. Anime watchers should expect better quality in their product, not just be happy with "my girl won".

No one is trying to stop you from liking Shuffle! or trying to convince us we've missed something. But you've got to expect to have to defend your comments or change your view when new information is presented, just I have to expect to do the same. Rooboy and I have disagreed on a number of topics, but we either agree to disagree, I've changed my opinion, and he's changed his when things were pointed out to each other.

[rooboy]

I would just like to say that I _never_ change my opinion. :)

If I changed it, it wouldn't be mine anymore, it would be yours. :D

[wingdarkness]

Well I started watching anime I can remember at about age 8 with Speedracer and Voltron including all the hybrid anime shows like transformers, Thundercats, Silverhawks, GI joe, etc...So I just sighted that i been watching anime for like 17 years but that just means I'm in my mid-20's^^...But I still have anime experience, although it doesn't always mean alot in a literary debate...I actually though Vexx's age was joking like people who put 100 or 1 as an age, but I'm already resigned to the fact that I will always love anime for all my years...whoever i marry will understand that, or I will take drastic measures and hide my obsession like a double agent :p...

How many times do you think she has tried already? If Asa won't listen to her then Ama asks Rin to do it. Besides what kind of plot would that be if Ama convinced Asa to use her magic in the 1st place? We wouldn't have a dramatic plot then and that would hurt the story worse then what you say it is

I don't think you realise how indirectly critical you just were by saying that...I won't comment any further...I'd like to see if others figured it out...

[Vexx]

@rooboy: hahaha... silly semantic nutcase :)

[Rin-Sama]

Vexx: let me refraze that. PART of the portal was open for 10 years until it was completely unblocked. The portal itself between relmas has technachly been open for 20 years, just the ability to pass through it easily has been for only 10.

That's why you get the occational "slippage" for the 1st 10 and then open for all for the next 10. (Which explains why there are half-breads such as Mayumi and Asa before the portal was completly opened.

[Vexx]

ah.. thank you... though I still don't remember that mentioned in the series... just that the wall between the dimensions was somewhat porous .. kind of like between the normal world and the land of Faerie in Keltic mythology.

[Sian]

hmm ... basicly its only just weak writing to the VA's

[Rin-Sama]

My theroy was that this all started with the 1st massive failed attempt with Project Yadrisell (spelling!). The massive explosion of raw magic more than likely created a "crack" between the the relms (Which is why Ama was able to be thrown into the human realm) After that for the next 10 years the occational demon/god/or human would "slip through the crack" (more than likely by accident), if you will, into one of the other relms. And then probably either due to the other experimants or finding the crack, the gods and demons forced the crack wider and open the door to the other realms for easy passage.

[dojikyo]

Gave it a 7 but it'll be a personal 8.

Strong points:
-Opening theme song is pretty nice.

-Pretty good animation with the exception of the latter half of ep.24.

-ep.12 to ep.20

-ep.11 took care of both Mayumi and the teacher. Screw giving every secondary female an entire episode.

-King of Gods v. King of Demons in every single table top game in one episode.

Weak points:
-All they really had to do was have Asa not be able to use magic until it was time to save Rin. I'll take power of love unlocking Asa's ability to use magic over what was used. It would be similiar to a mother gaining enough adrenaline to lift 300 pounds to save her child.

-Limp finish to Kaede's Arc.

-What marketing moron thought it would be a good idea to have the protection clubs appear more than once?

Decent harem anime that tries to include some drama but comes up a bit short towards the end.

[Rin-Sama]

yet another satisified costomer.....<_<

[peterchen620]

Kaede told me to vote a perfect score of 10, or she will stab me with her boxcutter knife.

KAEDE FOREVER

[Vexx]

Gave it a 7 but it'll be a personal 8.

Strong points:
-Opening theme song is pretty nice.

-Pretty good animation with the exception of the latter half of ep.24.

-ep.12 to ep.20

-ep.11 took care of both Mayumi and the teacher. Screw giving every secondary female an entire episode.

-King of Gods v. King of Demons in every single table top game in one episode.

Weak points:
-All they really had to do was have Asa not be able to use magic until it was time to save Rin. I'll take power of love unlocking Asa's ability to use magic over what was used. It would be similiar to a mother gaining enough adrenaline to lift 300 pounds to save her child.

-Limp finish to Kaede's Arc.

-What marketing moron thought it would be a good idea to have the protection clubs appear more than once?

Decent harem anime that tries to include some drama but comes up a bit short towards the end.


cookie from me just because you're able to say in succinct bullet form what it takes me several pages and visual aids to get across :)

I'd include the Kings and Ama encounter in the last episode as a strong point. Nerine's "threesome" remark that floored Itsuki. Almost anytime Mayumi was onscreen. I won't add to my long list of weak points but just say I was a bit disappointed that Nerine never got her own date but ah well.

[DannoHung]

It was decent. The beginning was so pathetically weak, but I think they hit a nice stride in the middle.

The ending didn't exactly make sense... well, it really didn't make any sense at all, but Asa is one of the best characters in a Harem anime ever.

Please permit me to gush over her for a moment's time: Assertive, yet compassionate. Sarcastic and sensitive, and with a mind of her own. Asa's the total package. She represents someone who would be a totally equal partner in a relationship. I really, really liked that she wasn't afraid to give Rin shit all the time, but she knew when to back off. Also, she's just a plain good friend to anyone that extends the effort. Though she had the near fatal flaw of being as dumb as a box of rocks about her Mother's feelings, it was only out of total devotion that she was that way.

To you Asa! You've got a mind of your own and I respect you for it!

PS: You're much cuter with short hair. I'm glad your Mom gave you a trim at the end.
PSS: Your Mom's awesome and her Kitty Hat's are the shiznits.

Let's see, other notes... Uhhh... oh yeah, Primula was funny... wish they'd done her story arc a little earlier so she could've gotten more comedy relief bits than she did.... the Dads could only carry that so far.

Incidentally, the Dad's deserve their own series... dare I say, "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" starring God and Demon Dad? Perhaps Three's Company with God Dad, Demon Dad, and Primula as the Jack Tripper character?

Itsuki and Mayumi are destined to end up together, drive each other absolutely crazy, and have like... 30 grandkids. (What's the deal with her eyes though?)

Poor, stupid, crazy Kaede. I hope she grows a pair and finds a guy that doesn't treat her like dirt. (That kiss at the end of 24 is pretty f-ing hilarious though. Gotta love the little bit of fluid swappage they indicated). Rin should've been trying to discourage her from obsessing over him that much. I mean, especially since he never, EVER made a move on her. Christ, seriously. Also, I can understand the desire to leave the ending open for a new series or whatever, but she should've gotten off the habit at the very least. It woulda been f-ing hilarious too

Itsuki: "That said, well, Kaede-chan? How about going on a date with me?"
Rin: "So that's what you wanted to say?"
Kaede: "Hahahaha, fuck no. I just got over being jerked around by one playa, what kinda dumb bitch do you think I am?"
Cast: O.O
Kaede: "That's right sucka-fools! It's a Brand New Kaede! Let's go honey"
*Mr. T enters Stage Left*
Mr. T: "I pity the foo that be disrespectin' my sweet thing. I'll toss 'em hella far! Now drink your milk fools, cuz I ain't got time to bleed!"
Cast:
O.O
-.-
-.-
O.o

[Rin-Sama]

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love your Mr. T/Kaede senerio!

[kamikazex]

10/10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
good stuff this series
especially the ending
ASA FTW!!!

[Rin-Sama]

Ah a fellow Asa lover. We can be friends!

[Julius Firefocht]

All right, I admit, Shuffle has been languishing in my collection for a while. It took Kyon and Mikuru from the Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi and the announcement of Shuffle Memories to give me enough motivation to finally watch the series.

I am glad to say that I wished I had watched Shuffle when it first started more than a year back. The starting was kinda weak, and gave me the impression of the "typical" harem anime, with Kyo....I mean, Rin showing roughly equal affection to all the girls. It did keep me guessing who would end up with him though. At first, I though it would be Shia or Kaede. That said, I was surprised when Asa, a supposed side-character, ended up with Rin.

The theme of sacrifice resonated throughout this show, and it is a theme I really appreciated. Kaede's eight years' worth of emotional and physical sacrifice for Rin, Ama's sacrifice for Asa, Shia and Nerine's willingness to take a step back and let Rin make his own choice without pressuring him and lastly, Rin's willingness to sacrifice his life for the woman he loved, it's all very heady and touching stuff. Very nice indeed.

I also liked the fact that relatively early on, people actually told Rin to make a choice soon, because delaying that choice will hurt rather than help all the girls who love him. Too many harem shows had the main lead having his way with all the girls without someone telling him that not everyday is a Sunday and the honeymoon is about to end, until it's too late. Kudos to Rin for actually choosing a girl and never looking back, even with the bevy of other beauties just waiting for the chance to jump him. Personally, I would have picked Kaede if I were him, but I can certainly see where Rin is coming from. :)

That said, I am overall very happy with this show, and I gave it an 8. The score would have been higher if Rin ended up with Kaede, but it's ok the way it is. I am looking forward to Shuffle Memories, and hopefully Really? Really! will get animated. It's gonna be a long shot, but I hope Shuffle Memories will have a Kaede ending. Who knows, that might do it to coincide with the release of Really? Really!.

Lastly, Kaede rocks. Always remember that. Kaede rocks.

[TigerII]

I liked the ending. And then I found out later in the credits there was another couple. Hawt. I like the Sia and Kaede scene. Maybe Kaede can have someone new to worship

[Maxon]

How can you possibly like the ending? Did you even watch the events leading up to it?

[TigerII]

Because I never liked Kaede. And the two princesses loved him as a small child.

[Vexx]

So he didn't notice the massive plotholes in the last 5 or 6 episodes: or the complete change of character personalities and motivation divergences, nor the spectacularly awful animation in the last episode <shrug>

meh... whatever. :)

[Skyfall]

From a technical point of view i would give it a 6/10 .... from a personal enjoyment pov - 7.5/10 (mostly because of Nerine :p )

could have been more, but alas - too many things i didn't like

- Sia getting rejected for no apparent reason (besides for progressing the story) - Sia x Rin seemed to tick very well at that point.

- Nerine getting shafted in terms of screentime (Extra deducted points with me being Nerine's fanboy and all :p )

- Nerine giving up on Rin and finding other things to do with her life (which i liked), only to have her state in the last ep that she is still after Rin :eyespin:

- amount of crack the writers (or game developers if you want to nitpick) used when they came up with Asa's reasoning behind her unwillingness to use magic. *insert head banging against keyboard... several times*

- alternate personalities of characters(Asa/Rin) kicking in during Kaede's arc (A major flaw in my books)

- animation during the 2nd half of the last ep made me cry

- lame harem reset(or attempt at it) for teh win..... not

- introducing polygamy as a viable option and not taking it!!! *cough*

- Asa with long hair looks ugly :heh:

The only thing that saved the last ep was the Ama and the two king "meeting".

... too tired and lazy(mostly lazy) to do a more in-depth analysis, and i am sure that everything about the series has been over-debated time and time again, and most people here know all the possible arguments :)

[Riker]

The only thing that saved the last ep was the Ama and the two king "meeting".

I'm sure many people will agree that it was one of the (if not the best) part of the last episode.
Such a well done scene. :3

[Vexx]

That little scene of Ama and the kings stood out like a patch of purest skin against a field of zits :)
Subtle and quite beautifully done (even while the animation was meh).

[Deathkillz]

lol...great analogy XD
personally i think the end is like akiko's jam ~ you either love it or hate it ~ but in this case the love is way smaller than the hate (kinda like how its only akiko who likes the jam :heh:) and also the fact that with all the potential girls...asa is outnumbered 1 : 4 fanbases working together ~ as for me personally i find it on the boarderline of love and hate ~ i loved the events leading up to things before it all went to the dogs ~ but even so i dont think that its totally unwatchable ~ if you like a good argument just go to one of the threads and express your feeling for asa XD

[Shiroth]

I'm sure many people will agree that it was one of the (if not the best) part of the last episode.
Such a well done scene. :3
It was that well done, that it easily makes a place in my top 05 scenes of the series.

[Shortysdohdoh]

I haven't found a website to get the game, yet - i rated the Anime 8/10

The animation was pretty satisfying to me, except it could have been more detailed like some other anime's i've seen.

Sounded good to me, actually there's this techno sounding song i heard while watching it. I'm still trying to go back and find it.

I thought it was a funny, and interesting story. Really with the nudity it made it that much more fun to watch. I liked Rin's character a lot, him being conservative. It takes a man to resist temptation like that though. I would have folded the first time Asa shoved my face between her legs, like in episode 2.

so you can assume, that i liked Asa the most. I was rooting for her the whole time. except half way through i came to the conclusion that they didn't show her enough, so i thought Rin wouldn't pick her. In the end though, he did so i was happy.

The ending though? Rin cutting himself was.... kind of a daring way to go i thought. seemed to turn out O.K. i guess, though it could have been totally different and a lot better. But what the f--- did they do to Asa's hair!?.... that REALLY turned me off.

Primula was probably the cutest anime girl i've ever seen animated.

all in all, it wasn't my favorite. but still, saying it was good is an understatement. Fate/Stay Night still rates higher in my book.

BONUS Points: the amount of hentai pictures and drawings available ^_^ hentai stuffs is always better with anime characters i already like


edit: I must agree with Skyfall and Riker, the last part with Ama walking by the 2 Kings was very nice indeed, I almost wish there would have been conversation. Short and sweet was very fitting also though. It was clear that the 2 kings knew it was her, and she realized it.

[Shortysdohdoh]

My fellow peers, please excuse the double post, but this is an urgent matter.



- Sia getting rejected for no apparent reason (besides for progressing the story) - Sia x Rin seemed to tick very well at that point.



- amount of crack the writers (or game developers if you want to nitpick) used when they came up with Asa's reasoning behind her unwillingness to use magic. *insert head banging against keyboard... several times*



- introducing polygamy as a viable option and not taking it!!! *cough*


1. Sia turned out to be a fricken Schizo lol, who cares she was rejected. would YOU date a schizo? I wouldn't, i don't care how beautiful she is.


2. rofl, couldn't have said it better. I don't know wtf she kept talking about. it was a life or death situation and she kept justifying it with some cheesy ish i really didn't understand.


3. if they used the polygamy option, then they'd have to make more episodes featuring each different girl more. eventually it would run on, and get old and fans would die. also they wouldn't have been able to create the game because every possible ending would have been done.

i personally am glad they didn't use polygamy. but the thought of it was fun added to the episodes they did create.

[Vexx]

Item 1, If you think about it, every character in the story was some kind of psychotic basketcase.... so by that criteria, none of them should have been picked (even Rin was delusional or sociopathic depending on how you interpret his treatment of women).
Item 2 makes me wonder why you're happy because if its a poorly written story... its a poorly written story.
Item 3 makes no sense - the anime is based on the software game. Also there's no reason a "polygamy" option would have required more episodes - they had plenty of time budget.

[Arimfe]

2. rofl, couldn't have said it better. I don't know wtf she kept talking about. it was a life or death situation and she kept justifying it with some cheesy ish i really didn't understand.It was was for her mothers sake, what's so hard to understand?
Asa didn't want her mom to cry again so Asa refuses to use magic and accepts that she gets weaker everyday until she finally dies.
She would rather die than to become a magical girl! It totally makes sense! Didn't you know magic and witchcraft is evil?
A Harry Potter and warlocks are evil TOO!
My mom said so!

I mean it's BRILLIANT! Asa is no psycho!!!! As long as Asa denies she's a mahou shoujo who needs to cast a spell once in a while, it'll be fine! As long as she denies, it makes things true! It's not psychotic at all! She's not a mahou shoujo, she doesn't need to cast a few spell once in a while at all... amIright?
A weekly trip to the hospital is FINE TOO!
A final trip to the graveyard is FINE TOO!
I liked the ending.

Because I never liked Kaede. And the two princesses loved him as a small child.half way through i came to the conclusion that they didn't show her enough, so i thought Rin wouldn't pick her. In the end though, he did so i was happy.I sooooooo agree with you guys ^_^
Our feelings are like....one and united. As long as our girls win, the ending/story must be good! It doesn't matter how braindead they become, as long as they win, everything is good.

[Maxon]

Our feelings are like....one and united. As long as our girls win, the ending/story must be good! It doesn't matter how braindead they become, as long as they win, everything is good.
That's what I thought! OMG what a coincidence! :p:eyespin:
also they wouldn't have been able to create the game because every possible ending would have been done.
The Shuffle! anime is an adaptation of the Shuffle! game. :rolleyes:

I'll ignore the rest of your post due to the fact I can't take it seriously.

[Vexx]

@Arimfe..... ohhhh, stop it. You're such a card :)

[Shortysdohdoh]

Item 1, If you think about it, every character in the story was some kind of psychotic basketcase.... so by that criteria, none of them should have been picked (even Rin was delusional or sociopathic depending on how you interpret his treatment of women).
Item 2 makes me wonder why you're happy because if its a poorly written story... its a poorly written story.
Item 3 makes no sense - the anime is based on the software game. Also there's no reason a "polygamy" option would have required more episodes - they had plenty of time budget.

I agree that a lot of them had issues, but Rin? I don't see what you mean.

Just because a story has a couple hiccups doesn't make the whole thing a poorly written story.

About the Game/Anime thing, i'm inserting foot to mouth now.

It was was for her mothers sake, what's so hard to understand?
Asa didn't want her mom to cry again so Asa refuses to use magic and accepts that she gets weaker everyday until she finally dies.
She would rather die than to become a magical girl! It totally makes sense! Didn't you know magic and witchcraft is evil?
A Harry Potter and warlocks are evil TOO!
My mom said so!

I mean it's BRILLIANT! Asa is no psycho!!!! As long as Asa denies she's a mahou shoujo who needs to cast a spell once in a while, it'll be fine! As long as she denies, it makes things true! It's not psychotic at all! She's not a mahou shoujo, she doesn't need to cast a few spell once in a while at all... amIright?
A weekly trip to the hospital is FINE TOO!
A final trip to the graveyard is FINE TOO!

lol






The Shuffle! anime is an adaptation of the Shuffle! game. :rolleyes:

I'll ignore the rest of your post due to the fact I can't take it seriously.


Yeah I got that already.

[TigerII]

But the true reason i liked Asa the best is...I like the color green...ha.

I iimmediately liked her because of her green hair. Had another girl had the green, I would have wanted them to get Rin. I am a shallow, shallow person.

[DanielSong39]

As for those who can't see Rin's delusional or sociopathic tendancies...

You might want to check out Rin's boxcutter moment?

[shinn_asagiri]

ill give it a 9

if it weren't for the ending it could've been 10

[luvmelodrama]

8 out of 10

i would've given a higher score if the first half of the series didn't drag as it did. the ending was the best part, completely took me by surprise. and esp that slitting of the wrist deal.. that was a shocker.

(i hope everyone who comes to this thread already saw the entire series, otherwise i spoiled a bit for some perhaps.. sorry!)

[Vexx]

meh.... spoilers should be expected in a poll about the overall series... don't worry. Welcome to the forum for animesuki and please take some time to read the policies and how to spoil tag.

[Meiaminkbell]

So as it would appear I am late to replying on this. I had a long-ass post thought up but I'll simplify it for the betterment of you readers, and for the fact that it is fucking GORGEOUS outside and I want to go for a run before work today.

*throws cat off lap*

I know its about 2 weeks old but bare with me. *casts Life 3 on the thread*

So I had some time between classes to read half of this thread, and I realized that...wow how did I miss all this?! :D

Did reading this thread change my opinion of Shuffle? Not by a great deal. It did point out irregularities and important issues that I ddn't come to notice when I watched it.

Anyways, my personal opinion gives it an 8/10. However, from a more realistic view and from analyzing and comparing Shuffle to other anime's I've seen it's closer to a 6.5/7

I love harem animes. Shit, Tenchi Muyo was the show that got me started into anime itself. (Nice story behind that one, but that's for another time). I realize that harem's provide an unrealistic view of relationships and love in general, but if I want realism I'll watch the news, which you'll NEVER see me doing. I like the crazy over-the-top antics of harem anime, the rivalry of the girls competeing for one man, whether he deserves it or not, and as a purveyor of romantic comedies harem animes usually take the cake. Shuffle is one of the most brilliant and well done harem anime's that I've seen.

Now on to the realistic scale. I won't lie, I am not hard to please humorly and Shuffle! did me good humor-wise (could have been more Mayumi and Itsuki comedy). I still laugh whenever Kareha goes off on a delusional tangent and I don't get tired of the many breast attacks on poor Rin.

I realize people complain about the first half of the show (and the last half), and I can't really say I liked one more than the rest, suffice it to say they both had heir flaws. The first half was a typical harem-esque anime, introduction of all the girls as their desire to be with Rin. The second half delved deep into an underlying storyline that it is fairly uncommon in most harem animes and even rarely done well. Was Shuffle's? I thought it was alright, but after reading this thread I realized that it did need some *cough* tweaking. Case in point, probably the most frustrating aspect of the show was, as previously mentioned, when Asa refused to use her powers. I can tell the writers earnestly tried to make it seem realistic, but even I was saying out loud "Wouldn't it make your mom cry more if you died?"

The Kaede arc I had no problem with. Being borderline psychotic actually made the sweet and loveable girl seem more realistic, alibi in a very extreme sense. People always say hor cruel he was to her, and in theory I guess you could say he was. But Rin also did have a life of his own, and possibly the only real fault I saw in im during this arc was that he did not commit to helping Kaede sooner. The conclusion was inevitable, she was going to be hurt, bad. Her past psychosis was bound to kick in once Rin knew he was in lvoe with Asa and when Kaede found out. I had mroe of an arguement on this point, but I'm distracted right now.

The Asa arc, looking back on it, was not done well AT ALL. Rin cutting his wrists to save Asa, admitedly, was one of the high points of the last 4 episodes, the other one being, as previously mentioned, was the encounter with the Kings and Ama. I didn't have much problem with the animation, but I'm not that picky when it coems to situation like that. As far as Rin choosing Asa goes, I'm just going to quote myself from an original post.

It could be argued who is more "suited" for Rin, obviously no one is more devoted to him than Kaede. Truth of the matter is that Rin loves Asa, no matter how "suited" Kaede is for him. Out of the all the girls he felt the closest to Asa emotionally and in relation to real-life POV's, this is the most acceptable. Think about it, two girls that come out of nowhere and automatically declare their love and future engagement to you would make one a bit jumpy at least and not something one can just jump into. And Kaede, in Rin's view, is more of a litte sister than she is anything else, possibly even taht of a mother-figure. She took care of him, watched over him, developed a relationship with Rin that would make any romantic interest with her very awkward in his mind. Asa, however, is a friend that he's known for a couple years. He's gotten to know personal aspects about her while at the same time maintaining a moderate level of distance from her that makes her desireable and attractive at the same time. How rare it is that the main character in a harem anime falls in love with someone that could actually be considered the ideal choice in real life.


The only other arguement, that I can think of (I had more, really! but im tired and distracted :( ), is how easily they blew off Sia and Nerine to make room for Asa. Again, this has been pointed out in previous post but I feel it needs rementioning. I've been a member of RRR since I first saw her, I have a slight obsession with elefin traits, and out of all the girls she disappointed me the most (I mean what the producers did with her), but I fcan understand, somewhat, what they were getting behind. Out of all the girls (aside from Primula) she was the one who didn't exactly have a "past" with her. She only knew him through Lycrosis and thus was more than likely conflicted about her true feelings for him. Ad of course, being the observant one that she is she understood firsthand that, as much as she thought she loved him (and did), she wasn't ready to be the woman for him. Still, she deserved a lot bigger part than she did, at the least more screentime but that's my bias'd opinion. I felt awful for Sia, getting so close to Rin only to have everything miracously do a 180 on her. At least I'm glad that she and Kikyo made up, so to speak.

I had more to rant/compliment about but for the life of me I lost it. So to end, I ahve a question.

I've been doing some research for a project of mine, and being unable to read hirigana/katakana I've been having some trouble trying to fgure out the ages of Sage and Cineraria. It would be awesome if I could get Nerine's and Sia's ages as well, but I can deduce they are, at least 16 years old considering the game background and their own with Rin. So if anyone knows Sage and Cineraria's ages that would be awesome.

[Tiran86]

I just finished this for the first time tonight. I'd give it an 8.5/10, voted 8 instead of 9, since I don't quite consider it a great anime. I liked the Asa/Rin pairing a lot and I was glad she won.

[kamuinoyume]

For me it has to be 8 cause there were some episodes that were rather boring, I like the Kaede going all berserk in the end and the fact that she got over it, and I like the RinXAsa paring so I kind of liked the ending though it let's me wonder if he had chosen Nerine would they have made a "Really? Really?" Anime?

[leo786]

I'm giving it 5/10. I just didn't like it at all. It's just a typical harem and the episodes were boring, the story had a really stretched real plot. I droped it at episode 9. I can't take 24 or so episodes of it.

[npal]

You missed the fun. Pick it up on 19 :p

[Utau]

I'm giving it 5/10. I just didn't like it at all. It's just a typical harem and the episodes were boring, the story had a really stretched real plot. I droped it at episode 9. I can't take 24 or so episodes of it.

You missed the fun. Pick it up on 19 :p

I suggest watching it again from where you dropped it, only then will you find true happiness in watching ep.19 and onwards :p

the fun starts there, like npal said ;)

[Sian]

the first half of the series is rather typical with the twich that we have interracial :p ... its the latter half that sets it apart from the masses

[radioIzzy]

dang, I don't think should've voted for a 10... I think it's a good 8.5 or 9...

I really liked Asa, but I thought from the first episode that she'd be secondary character like Mayumi, so when Rin pretty much picks Asa, it was a bit surprising and came out of nowhere considering the whole series revolves around these two princesses from different realms.

And I thought more attention would be put on the history between their encounters with Rin; kind of like Kanon, but I guess they didn't choose to.

Bit inconsistent I found with the "I love you no matter what." It seemed like an anime in which the main character would not choose who he loved, but that would be up to the viewer.

[Sian]

review ep 4 :) ... thats the one asa enters the race (and is looking as a serius contenter for the first time)

she's the first one Rin is knowingly about to kiss, and if Ama didn't get home at a bad time the race would have ended there :p

[radioIzzy]

review ep 4 :) ... thats the one asa enters the race (and is looking as a serius contenter for the first time)

she's the first one Rin is knowingly about to kiss, and if Ama didn't get home at a bad time the race would have ended there :p

Yeah that was a good episode :P

Definately went a different direction with this anime, I mean I read the little plot overview from AnimeNewsNetwork, and this is what it said about Shuffle!


When two doors are discovered in an ancient ruin, the gateways to shinkai, the realm of the shinzoku (Gods) and makai, the realm of the mazoku (Demons) are irreversably opened. The races of human, shinzoku, and mazoku come together in the mortal world and nothing will ever be the same. One day, two new families move next door to a boy who had previously been living a very peaceful life. In one house lived the family of the King of the Gods, and in the other lived the family of the King of the Demons. Both families had one daughter whose single wish to live next to the boy they had fallen in love with years ago has just been fulfilled. Also living with the boy is his childhood friend. With these three girls vying for his affections, the boy finds that his new life filled with despair, jealousy, and just a little hope is beginning.

Hence why I thought it'd be more focused around Kaede, Sia, and Nerine. :P

[Vexx]

As did many many others... however, if you watch Nerine in the first 6 episodes and what she says, along with Asa and Rin's moment in ep 4, Nerine foreshadows and tags the ending right at the start of the race. They actually did a good job of providing plenty of clues for observant viewers.

I would have preferred the "polygamy" ending (Sia, Nerine, and Kaede) but the *idea* of veering over to the "other childhood friend" was not automatically a bad idea.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, the anime writers proved to be totally unqualified for the task of integrating the arc paths based on the results. From the end of the Sia arc and on, characters lurched about as if they were being jerked around by the gods, they amplified the Kaede arc such that they had to leave her in some kind of psychotic masochist hell, Asa's motivations for her refusal to use magic wither into insane stupidity, Rin went from being a rather respectable lead to being rather loathed by many, and then... then just to really munge it, the writers try and pull a reset out of the ass of the last episode.

It was as if a Shakespeare drama had been rewritten by hack low-budget commercial jingle goons. Basically a great example of how staff anime adaptation writers can fail when they take ero-game material or a manga-ka's work and try to stitch it together.

The ero-game is pretty entertaining, the manga is a good read, and the doujinshi is all a good catch, but I find it hard to recommend the series other than as an exercise in analyzing script writing failure.

[FatalMemory]

Even so, it was still much better than Da Capo.

[Vexx]

"better"? .... would you like to expand on that? Kind of meaningless if you don't cite any criteria or comparative explanation. Was there a reason to compare it to another anime rather than just assessing it's storytelling merits?

[FatalMemory]

"better"? .... would you like to expand on that?
The doting sister was infinitely more enjoyable, because she lost and went psycho.

It's nice and all to fall back on some "always existed" relationship, but I rather prefer watching relationships develop.

"You're always running away from my feelings!" -Nemu

Canvas 2 actually depicted Hiroki developing feelings for Elis.
Da Capo had no such thing, just reminiscing about Nemu's jealousy, Jun'ichi's saying his feelings were suppressed by his responsibility as a brother, and some stupid mutual blushing here and there.

Nemu hardly considered Jun'ichi's feelings, beyond being some sort of perfect maid, she just assumed there was always some relationship, therefore having the right to be jealous of any female interaction Jun'ichi has, and scold him for it.

As much as I enjoyed the Sakura tree's destruction, Nemu exploding in a similar burst of petals, and the Jun'ichi living out his days with a suitable partner (as Sakura said herself, anyone but Nemu!) would've made for a much more dramatic and acceptable end, in my opinion at least.

Which is all any of this is, my opinion, I suppose the great advantage Visual Novels have over their anime counterparts, is the element of choice, everyone's different, and I can imagine there'd even be people out there who like the bad endings of School Days.

Was there a reason to compare it to another anime rather than just assessing it's storytelling merits?

The reason of comparison would be the similarity of some characters, and the whole harem situation, although I'll probably never vent enough anger to not rant about Nemu whenever the tiniest opportunity arises.

[Vexx]

Thanks... just wondered. I know a lot of people like Da Capo and its sequels but I could never get interested enough to finish any of them.

OTOH, I enjoyed Canvas 2 but then it set out as a triangle rather than "the usual sequential arc of romancing girls", instead simply having the lead help with their problems. My complaints about Canvas 2 are minor and more a matter of whether foreshadow was invisible - its still a lot more rewatchable than many trainwreck anime adapted from ero-games.

My complaints about Shuffle! derive more from the way arcs were stitched together, the way they transitioned, and then the way the last episode tried to portray some lack of closure (not really a reset but yeah a reset; game not over). Good premise, many interesting moments, glad there's a manga and lots of doujinshi :)

[ShimatheKat]

6 from me.

For me, you've gotta understand that 7 is already very good
(think Kanon '06, Minami-ke), but for me to even give 8, you've got to be like Clannad. And 10 is still Oharuhi-sama's lone territory.

Animation 7: Character design is better than some other Visual-novel adaptations like Kanon '02, or even '06. But one problem is, some characters are 'favored' over another. (Oh, watching Kyoani has given me a jaded taste?)

Sound 5: Not great, as BGMs need some percussion backing usually to carry the song along and make it memorable. Shuffle's BGM's lack strong percussion.

Voice 7: Great voicing, though not on the Aya Hirano [in Haruhi]/Houko Kuwashima [as Tomoyo - CLANNAD] levels. Sia was especailly cute (Wait, she voiced Kyon's sis too!)

Story 4: Bad connections. Connections between one arc and next are like trying to make a train connection in Hokkaido. Quite difficult to connect them in my head. Plot shift too sudden. If you want to shift like that, make each cour a season, then have a light 1st cour, then a dark 2nd cour. [CLANNAD's first season was light-hearted, but the second is more serious and imparts some lessons... therefore, sometimes, don't rush it!]

Characters 6: Not all were pleasing. Some were great, like Kaede and Asa. Others were a little weak. Please refer to a KyoAni production if you want to know what gives a 9-10.

Enjoyment 5: Couldn't connect the arcs, couldn't understand some parts at all, made little sense, and the magic was far from magical. Please refer to CLANNAD After Story 5-6 to get what I mean.

As a sum I get a 7 + 5 + 7 + 4 + 6 + 5 = 34
Average: 5 2/3
This rounds up to 6.

That is all...

[Utau]

^although i agree with you in some points, to compare Shuffle! to KyoAni's Clannad is just.. straight unfair. You are also mentioning other Key/KyoAni works which imo are all masterpieces (w/ the exception of SHnY & LS) be it the game or the anime. If it be KyoAni who picked this up can you still say otherwise?

[ShimatheKat]

^although i agree with you in some points, to compare Shuffle! to KyoAni's Clannad is just.. straight unfair. You are also mentioning other Key/KyoAni works which imo are all masterpieces (w/ the exception of SHnY & LS) be it the game or the anime. If it be KyoAni who picked this up can you still say otherwise?

Well, not likely, unless they screw it up bad like Lucky Star. That's not even near Kanon '06/Haruhi/CLANNAD. That's what I call epic fail... 'cause it's no slice-of-life, it's just epic fail randomness. For Slice-of-life, I refer to Minami-ke.

And your location just twisted me...智代の部屋!? Tomoyo's room!? Doing what!?

[Utau]

Well, not likely, unless they screw it up bad like Lucky Star. That's not even near Kanon '06/Haruhi/CLANNAD. That's what I call epic fail... 'cause it's no slice-of-life, it's just epic fail randomness. For Slice-of-life, I refer to Minami-ke.

well LS is still good in it's own way. The episodes between 14?-24 are quite impressive since it had some seriousness in some episodes. If KyoAni picked it however, then that would also mean it's Visual Key and not a work done by Navel w/c is a big NO to me :heh:

Visual Key tends to have sad beautiful visual novels, so..


And your location just twisted me...智代の部屋!? Tomoyo's room!? Doing what!?

M-m-m-mind your own BUSINESS! :heh:

[ShimatheKat]

well LS is still good in it's own way. The episodes between 14?-24 are quite impressive since it had some seriousness in some episodes. If KyoAni picked it however, then that would also mean it's Visual Key and not a work done by Navel w/c is a big NO to me :heh:

Visual Key tends to have sad beautiful visual novels, so..



Well, it's the transitions that really made it garner only 6. Look at the story part.




M-m-m-mind your own BUSINESS! :heh:

Aha! What's she doing to you - or you doing to her??:D
Is she feeding you well?:heh:

[Aya_Lyka]

i voted 9-10 i really like shuffle but i was just like disappointed that she picked Asa but still it was great.

[LovePhoenix]

Perfect, of course. I really liked the anime although I didn't like that Rin chose Asa in the end. But oh well, it was still great.

[tlv]

I'm really very hate the end in Season 1:frustrated:, and I don't want watch Season 2.
I think Rin is very selfish man I've seen:frustrated:, he live with Kaede in her house 8years and he don't know what Kaede thinking, her feeling when he talk and go out with other girls:frustrated:.
If I had a friend like him, I will kill him:bash:.
I also hate Asa, she knew Kaede love Rin but she ..., and I'm extremely hate Rin and Asa when them go Kaede home and talk, laugh when Kaede here:frustrated::bash:.
I felt sorry for Kaede.

[Sian]

tlv: two things
There is no season 2 ... its merely a long recap with little new to offer, which even then would count as filler

Rin is selfish because he sees Kaede more of a sister (and not being into to squicky relationships)?

[tlv]

tlv: two things
There is no season 2 ... its merely a long recap with little new to offer, which even then would count as filler

Rin is selfish because he sees Kaede more of a sister (and not being into to squicky relationships)?

Even a sister, I still think he is selfish and very very stupid.
When Kaede's umbrella hanged in the Fence wire and she could take it out, he run with other girls, and after school, he go home with them without Kaede >>> what kind person like him?:frustrated:
And when he go out with other girl, Kaede always talk with him with sad voice and sad face, he even didn't know:bash:.
and many many time...:frustrated:

[Sian]

... its called not being aware of it ... Kaede hardly tried to notify him about her losing the umbrella

[tlv]

I don't mention about he know or not know, I angry because he and Kaede live together, same class but why he can go home with other girls and didn't notice about Kaede.
And he never care about Kaede, thanks her or say something to make her happy. He only care her one time when her sick (because of unconscious when cook after go home in rain:sad:)
And when he talk about reason Kaede's mother die, if she need a reason to live why he can't say something other.

I don't think he don't know about Kaede love him, Kaede said many time her want cook for him, look after him... >>>Even stupid person can realize this, if he don't love her, he must say something but he don't.

>>> He is the most heartlessness, unkindness man:bash:.

[Sian]

And when he talk about reason Kaede's mother die, if she need a reason to live why he can't say something other.

don't you have a unrealistic view of what a 6 (maybe 8) year old child is able to figure out ... he was hard pressed from several sides, wanting to save one of his dear friends ...

[Utau]

could we somehow take this to Kaede thread or at least in the proper one? b'coz i honestly think you guys are in the wrong thread to be talking about such.


regarding tlv's hatred.. don't worry dude i feel your pain, it's just.. the way it is.



ahh-- this takes me back to the old days when the clubs are still alive and active :heh:

[Sian]

nah ... i'm quite happy that the highly militant and vocal KKK have died :p (you actually got a notice for being just that on Tvtropes .. think its under ship to ship combat)

[Vexx]

Just to be straight - several of the 'shipping groups were "highly militant and vocal" about 'their girl'. No reason to single one out.

Most members of the various groups seem to have gone on to better more productive posts after rehabilitation from that incident.

[Utau]

yeah, there is no need to single one out. Every group had their share of issues before not only one.

[Sian]

every group had issues to some degree yeah ... but KKK was the most militant nonetheless

[ShimatheKat]

every group had issues to some degree yeah ... but KKK was the most militant nonetheless

I agree. That was what put me off registering until now. Really horrifying.

The KKK were REALLY like the KKK (the white-supremacist Ku Klux Klan) of the USA. Really! Horrid, they way they treated Asa's fans. People who jumped ship from KAede to Asa, I hear, were hounded via PM everyday. Or at least my cousin tells me.

[Vexx]

There's a reason 'shipping threads/clubs were banned. Not really relevant to this thread, eh? This will end up being a flame war trading stories about how specific individuals from each club were rude and abusive. Hint....

[ShimatheKat]

Ok, read this sign.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/09/Stopsign_sing.png/120px-Stopsign_sing.png

Change topic: Do you prefer season 1 or the remake? I thought the first was still better than the second.

[Vexx]

The rehash .... doesn't even count as a series in my eyes - it was a terrible attempt to cash in a few more dollars on the series.

From what I recall, the original series was broadcast on a pay-tv-cable. The rehash was shown on "free" tv to try and create some buzz to bolster DVD sales. Other than some interesting eye-catch stills and that painfully animated last omake episode it had nothing for veterans of the first season. In fact, the rehash created new pain in that the wild variation in art and animation from episode to episode was glaringly obvious as they cut from scene to scene (this was much easier to miss in the first season without careful comparison).

At least there's the manga, collected manga shorts by other authors, and the doujinshi -- as well as the game itself.

For my part, I enjoy large segments of the first season with the caveat that the arcs were poorly integrated and ended, the transition between the Kaede arc and the Asa arc was a writing disaster in terms of the character behavior (which generated a lot of the fan angst). The scuttlebutt is that there was poor communication between the supervisors for those arcs. It also didn't help that the source material for Asa is pretty weak in the logic department. The pseudo-reset at the end was seriously annoying though there was a moment of brilliance between the two kings and Asa's mother. I was fine with the "choice" (I'd have been fine with any choice) but I thought it was odd for them to spend so much energy on a possible polygamous ending without doing it.

It wasn't *terrible* -- obviously I cared enough for it to still take the time to write about it. But I found their execution disappointing given the premise and the interesting worlds they had created. Integrating the story arcs of an eroge is always tough and trying something innovative is a great idea but you have to have the skills to execute.

Note: I should state I was a bit of a Nerine fan but quickly realized that Primula's story was edging her to the sidelines. At that point, I figured it would either go Asa (based on early episode events and Nerine's sharp eyes) or go polygamy (Sia/Nerine/Kaede). Not too much later it became clear it was Asa for the home run as Kaede got trampled by events as she thrashed around in her mental despair. After all that angst and drama, it just made that last episode very hollow and insincere feeling.

Needless to say, the game and the manga are quite different.

[Tabris]

At the time, I'd have given it at 9, because I well and truly enjoyed it, as well as all the banter between each fangroup. Despite the plotholes and such, as well as Asa's silly behaviour (but that goes for the game too), I still liked parts of the story, even if it didn't gel together all that well.

Now, I'd probably give it like a 6 or 7, but whatever, I voted it an 8.

[Sute443]

Needless to say, the game and the manga are quite different.

And are both quite superior to the anime, with the manga being better in my opinion.

Some people might say that the manga's ending was a bit ridiculous, but I feel that the high amounts of heartwarming and moe involved more than make up for it. Plus, it's the only ending I've seen that deals with that issue in a satisfying way.

Full disclosure: I don't know how the game deals with that issue, though, as I've saved where the routes split and don't have the heart to go either way.

[kyon.haruhi.suzumiya]

Animation 7: Slightly odd feel, and unbalanced. Rather dark, but that's the mood, right? Still, compared to some chaepskate ones like Gainax, it fares relatively well.

Sound 7: BGMs leave no major impression, but were great for the story itself. More than passable, but not an A.

Characters/Voice 8: Great voicing. Recognize some voices from Haruhi (Watching both simultaneously) Sia = Kyon's sis, Kaede = Mikuru.

Story 8: Great start, rushed ending. On the other hand, Kanon 2006 had a rushed start to middle, and slow end. Odd, huh?

Enjoyment 8: For some reason, the ending dropped this sector to 7.

Total: 7 x 2 + 8 x 3 = 14 + 24 = 38
Average: 7.6
Rounded up to 8.

[kaizer63]

So I just finished watching Shuffle! a few days ago and I've got mixed feelings about it. As far as just having something mildly entertaining to watch it was great and I finally got to know the feeling of having 'my girl' win.

On the other hand, that was one of the worst endings to a series I've seen in a while, topped only by Myself; Yourself. I don't really have any (real) complaints about the series until the Asa arc either. The Kaede arc really felt out of place to me, but it was a good out of place and I enjoyed the sudden change in atmosphere and the distinct lack of Nerine never bothered me. But, Asa was bad and so was her conclusion. I think "because it'll make mom sad" is possibly the most contrived reason anyone could come up with to NOT save their lives, especially given that it's made clear that her mom loves her more than anything and the last thing she wants to see is her dead. I saw Asa as one of the most level-headed characters throughout the whole thing and then they just dump this on you? If I wasn't so close to the end I might've dropped the series right there.

I also might be the only person who wasn't satisfied with how Rin got Asa to use her magic. I saw it coming from the moment he picked up the knife and never used it leaving me with no sense of suspense. It might be ingenious, but it was just a little to predictable. The whole scene also made Asa's decision to die make a lot less sense given the reason she saved him was by using the same logic she was denying in saving herself. (That is, if he, someone I care about, dies I'll be alone and cry. Wasn't her mother supposed to feel the same way about her...)

Besides the trainwreck ending, the series was about average. The animation fluctuated between "good-enough for me" and "bad" but it wasn't consistently bad enough for me to care.

Characterizations, until the end, were actually quite good and I enjoyed the more gradual growth of Primula and how Kaede slowly slipped into psycho mode starting with the first episode. Since I never really saw Nerine as "in the game" I really enjoyed watching her slowly opening up to her non-Rin related peers. Sia was interesting, but I never really saw her go anywhere. In fact, she actually regressed a bit in my eyes after she had to write herself out (the first time) for plot reasons. At least she didn't have a complete turn-around though. Also, loved the two Kings and Mayumi was one of the most entertaining side-characters ever.

I can't really comment much on the voice acting, but it was again, good. I actually watched half of the series in dub on hulu before I decided to get subs. Amazingly, I think the dub did a better job for Sia, spot-on for Asa, Mayumi, Kareha, the Kings, and Ama, and Primula would've been perfect had she ever spoken above 2 decibels so that you could actually hear her (that's the reason why I switched to subs actually).

So, despite using no numbers whatsoever before now, I'd have to rate the series at about 6.4. I've seen much larger train wrecks than this and it gave me enough enjoyment that I can ignore the what happened in the end and will probably watch it again some day.

EDIT:
And while this is waaay late to the party, I do have an answer for what Vexx called a plothole--why Rin and Kaede didn't know about Asa's sickness: The simple answer is because they didn't know her then. The long way is that Asa mention she got sick when she was little, and while I don't think she specifically said she got better as she got older, saying she was sick when she was little does imply she got better. That, and she's obviously not sick before the plot says so. After she was older and better, she never actually met the two until her third year of junior high. I don't remember the exact episode for this, but I'm fairly certain it's around when they start dating. Since Asa's a year older than the them and was a second year student, third year by the end of the series that means (assuming they met at the beginning of her third year of junior high) they've at best known each other for 4 years by the time they start dating. She's long since been "grown" out of her childhood sicknesses and the other two are none the wiser. Of course, why she suddenly got sick again... that is the plothole.

[Nalio]

So I just finished watching Shuffle! a few days ago and I've got mixed feelings about it. As far as just having something mildly entertaining to watch it was great and I finally got to know the feeling of having 'my girl' win.

On the other hand, that was one of the worst endings to a series I've seen in a while, topped only by Myself; Yourself. I don't really have any (real) complaints about the series until the Asa arc either. The Kaede arc really felt out of place to me, but it was a good out of place and I enjoyed the sudden change in atmosphere and the distinct lack of Nerine never bothered me. But, Asa was bad and so was her conclusion. I think "because it'll make mom sad" is possibly the most contrived reason anyone could come up with to NOT save their lives, especially given that it's made clear that her mom loves her more than anything and the last thing she wants to see is her dead. I saw Asa as one of the most level-headed characters throughout the whole thing and then they just dump this on you? If I wasn't so close to the end I might've dropped the series right there.

I also might be the only person who wasn't satisfied with how Rin got Asa to use her magic. I saw it coming from the moment he picked up the knife and never used it leaving me with no sense of suspense. It might be ingenious, but it was just a little to predictable. The whole scene also made Asa's decision to die make a lot less sense given the reason she saved him was by using the same logic she was denying in saving herself. (That is, if he, someone I care about, dies I'll be alone and cry. Wasn't her mother supposed to feel the same way about her...)

Besides the trainwreck ending, the series was about average. The animation fluctuated between "good-enough for me" and "bad" but it wasn't consistently bad enough for me to care.

Characterizations, until the end, were actually quite good and I enjoyed the more gradual growth of Primula and how Kaede slowly slipped into psycho mode starting with the first episode. Since I never really saw Nerine as "in the game" I really enjoyed watching her slowly opening up to her non-Rin related peers. Sia was interesting, but I never really saw her go anywhere. In fact, she actually regressed a bit in my eyes after she had to write herself out (the first time) for plot reasons. At least she didn't have a complete turn-around though. Also, loved the two Kings and Mayumi was one of the most entertaining side-characters ever.

I can't really comment much on the voice acting, but it was again, good. I actually watched half of the series in dub on hulu before I decided to get subs. Amazingly, I think the dub did a better job for Sia, spot-on for Asa, Mayumi, Kareha, the Kings, and Ama, and Primula would've been perfect had she ever spoken above 2 decibels so that you could actually hear her (that's the reason why I switched to subs actually).

So, despite using no numbers whatsoever before now, I'd have to rate the series at about 6.4. I've seen much larger train wrecks than this and it gave me enough enjoyment that I can ignore the what happened in the end and will probably watch it again some day.

EDIT:
And while this is waaay late to the party, I do have an answer for what Vexx called a plothole--why Rin and Kaede didn't know about Asa's sickness: The simple answer is because they didn't know her then. The long way is that Asa mention she got sick when she was little, and while I don't think she specifically said she got better as she got older, saying she was sick when she was little does imply she got better. That, and she's obviously not sick before the plot says so. After she was older and better, she never actually met the two until her third year of junior high. I don't remember the exact episode for this, but I'm fairly certain it's around when they start dating. Since Asa's a year older than the them and was a second year student, third year by the end of the series that means (assuming they met at the beginning of her third year of junior high) they've at best known each other for 4 years by the time they start dating. She's long since been "grown" out of her childhood sicknesses and the other two are none the wiser. Of course, why she suddenly got sick again... that is the plothole.


You said it all. I even agree with a worse ending anime being Myself; Yourself. Seriously, good call.


The series had me hooked until I realized Rin is not my style for a lead <_< Much too indecisive, too whiny. If they would have stuck Tomoya from Clannad in there instead of Rin the series would have been much better in my opinion.

Overall though I gave it a 7, mainly because all of the girls, especially Nerine and Primula really kept my interest. (Except Kaede, man, what a psycho.)

[KimmyChan]

I'd give it a perfect rating of 10 as it's a very enjoyable series & so very me :)

[Seitsuki]

8/10 for the Asa path and scaaary Kaede xD

[Adryanmh]

I liked it too and i rated it 10 because it's one of my favs series :) .

[animeffs13240]

just finished watching it... first few episode i liked but when things started to become serious i almost dropped it. i felt that it was just a bunch of animes thrown into one (had flashbacks of elfien lied in the kaede arc) not too mention some parts were very predicatible but the last episode saved the series in my opinion but overall not that bad of a series ill probably watch it again (but only the funny episodes)

[Sugar_Prayer]

I'm gonna have to give it an 8 out of 10.

While the was series enjoyable, I thought that the last bit of it could have been a lot better.

And, While Kaede is probably one of my favorite characters, I didn't like the flashbacks with her attempting to hurt Rin.

I also found Asa to be VERY annoying in the beginning half of the series, her (most of the time) endles amount of energy was very annoying to me.

[Massacre]

I gave this series a 9 out of 10 because I really enjoied the series, though I agree with wingdarkness and Vexx that the series was flawed. Im not super hard to please though I did think Rin would end up with Asa even though I was hoping it would be someone else. I still stand by my rating.

[Dead at Dusk]

8/10 I didn't enjoy the perverted parts

[SuperSaiyanOver9000]

I've only watched one episode so far and already I know its gonna be awesome :)