View Full Version : [Manga] The curse seal sucks pretty much
-|(aGe-BuNsHiN-
2003-12-13, 20:22
Basically the principle of the curse seal is kill fast, live longer. The longer you take to kill, the greater the detrimental effects are.
Edit: Err...is it just me or is my post on top of the page?
El Diablo
2003-12-13, 20:39
Ok, i've come to the conclusion that the cursed seal, no matter the level, isn't much good. From what we've seen so far, it is basically only as good as the ninja who uses it, it also has a lot of weaknesses, such as that it exhausts the user incredibly fast, and can also cause the natural growth of chakra and strength to lessen.
Now, from chapter 197, we've also seen that the cursed seal can be stopped, by simply closing the tenketsu. Also, so far all of the Ninja's who have fought using the curse seal, haven't been particularly strong ninja's, they've just been able to win because the curse seal gives them access to more chakra easier, while causing problems.
The problem with it is, as shikamaru and shino have shown, it doesn't matter very much how strong the opponent is, as long as you fight carefully, and intelligently you can win. So the real question is, is just a straight forward chakra boost that drains you of energy, and can essentially kill you if used incorrectly any good? Since if fought properly, its effects can be nulled.
This also leads to the point of comparing things such as chouji's pills and kyubi's chakra. When Naruto uses kyubi's chakra, he doesn't just get the chakra boost, but he doesn't get the draw backs of the curse seal, while even though the draw backs of chouji's pills are greater than that of the curse seal, the chakra increase is so enormous that you can completely overwhelm your opponent if you fight correctly.
So, is using the curse seal as a permanent method of fighting - which while makes you strong if you're weak, can cause limitations of how strong you'll become, meaning that you can quite easily become stronger than you would be with the cursed seal over time - worth using if you're given it?
Dopeskills
2003-12-13, 21:12
Well, Kakashi specifically told Sasuke that he won't be to progress any further if he turns to the power of the seal.
The Lvl 2 curse did help the sound nins wipe of those two jounin. Fotunately for our beloved genin, Choji hada trump card and Neji is a true genious, but it still looks like they are gonna die.
I think the cursed seal would be best used as a last resort or for quick immediate inihalation.
Lord Raiden
2003-12-13, 21:15
Think of the curse seal as a sugar rush. It's great for a short period of time and a quick boost of energy, but afterwords you're worse off than you were before you used it.
Jack Zodiac
2003-12-13, 21:22
Aren't all four of the Sound-nins still weak from fighting those Jounin? It took all four of them using their second level seals to beat them, and they were too exhausted to take on five Genin together, afterwards.
All the curse seal does is draw out more of the bearer's chakra, as Sasuke noticed in the prelims. So, I'm sure it's as physically exhausting as opening a few of the Eight Gates.
But like Neji demonstrated, even when you're horribly outclassed, as long as you have a level head and a strong strategy, a single Genin could defeat a monster able to take on two Jounin.
But like Neji demonstrated, even when you're horribly outclassed, as long as you have a level head and a strong strategy, a single Genin could defeat a monster able to take on two Jounin.
wrong...
a montser able to take out HALF a jounin
technically... since it took four of those sound nins in lvl 4 to beat the jounin... each sound nin is only half the power
blech
exactly what does NIN mean again? :)
They weren't good to begin with but they had potential. The curse seal lets you fight above the level you are now but you just end up getting hooked on it like a drug and never progress.
wrong...
a montser able to take out HALF a jounin
technically... since it took four of those sound nins in lvl 4 to beat the jounin... each sound nin is only half the power
No, the important point is that the four sound nin beat two jounins without being wounded.
Zabuza and Kakashi had more or less the same strength level, and at the end of their fight, both ot them were heavily wounded.
Even if the Sound nin were 4 against 2, the fact that they crushed the two Leaf jounins without being wounded proves their superiority.
exactly what does NIN mean again? :)
Ninja ;)
hobobaggins
2003-12-14, 13:39
wrong...
a montser able to take out HALF a jounin
technically... since it took four of those sound nins in lvl 4 to beat the jounin... each sound nin is only half the power
blech
exactly what does NIN mean again? :)
well... nin means person in japanese... but i think the people around the forum make it out to be ninja... to my chagrin.
and they are more than 1/2 a jounin at least, because they had energy left over to fight (chouji/neji) who some people think are close to the jounin level.
well... nin means person in japanese... but i think the people around the forum make it out to be ninja... to my chagrin.
and they are more than 1/2 a jounin at least, because they had energy left over to fight (chouji/neji) who some people think are close to the jounin level.
chouji nah
neji nah
Chuunin level at least.
I think the sound nins are just at a chuunin level right now.
GreyArea
2003-12-14, 14:09
Zabuza and Kakashi had more or less the same strength level, and at the end of their fight, both ot them were heavily wounded.
Kakashi was barely wounded at all, but he was almost out of chakra. He was unable to go all out against Zabuza as he had to stop him getting at Tazuna.
But Zabuza and Kakashi had pretty much the same strenght level. It's stated in the 1st Naruto Special Book. Kakashi had the advantage of the Sharingan, that's why he seems stronger than Zabuza, but he wasn't.
The Curse Seal raises your stamina, raising your strenght and speed. But it consumes a massive amount of Chakra and kills the person from the inside.
Kakashi was barely wounded at all, but he was almost out of chakra. He was unable to go all out against Zabuza as he had to stop him getting at Tazuna.
He took a knife blow through his hand and he was cut by the sword of Zabuza all along the thorax, I don't call that to be barely wounded.
[QUOTE=Vicious]But Zabuza and Kakashi had pretty much the same strenght level. It's stated in the 1st Naruto Special Book. Kakashi had the advantage of the Sharingan, that's why he seems stronger than Zabuza, but he wasn't.QUOTE]
So when he killed Zabuza it was just luck? He played around with him on the bridge. After he had gotten rid of thw mist.There he stabbed both his arms. So they were useless. After that he was practically dead.
Plus those wounds Kakshi got. he had to get those so he could use his nindogs to get rid of the mist, and ofcorse find Zabuza and kill him.
And Kakashi wasnt in his best shape. As he says when he climb the mountin.
Plus the he won the first time the fought to. But he was fooled by Haku and Zabuza.
So i say Kakashi is stronger than Zabuza.
[QUOTE=Vicious]But Zabuza and Kakashi had pretty much the same strenght level. It's stated in the 1st Naruto Special Book. Kakashi had the advantage of the Sharingan, that's why he seems stronger than Zabuza, but he wasn't.QUOTE]
So when he killed Zabuza it was just luck? He played around with him on the bridge. After he had gotten rid of thw mist.There he stabbed both his arms. So they were useless. After that he was practically dead.
Plus those wounds Kakshi got. he had to get those so he could use his nindogs to get rid of the mist, and ofcorse find Zabuza and kill him.
And Kakashi wasnt in his best shape. As he says when he climb the mountin.
Plus the he won the first time the fought to. But he was fooled by Haku and Zabuza.
So i say Kakashi is stronger than Zabuza.
Kakashi had the advantage of the Sharingan. So he could beat Zabuza.
But, like I said before, the Naruto 1st Special Book states that they had the same strenght. It's a fact, it's stupid and pointless to discuss that.
I agree with Gaara. Regardless of whatever the book said, Kakashi did suffer those wounds in order for his scent to be put on Zabuza's sword and therefore the dogs would be able to sniff him out and attack.
The idea that "Kakashi is only better because of the Sharingan" is pretty moot seeing as how he didn't even use it on the bridge fight with Zabuza, and he won the fight anyway. Hell, he even said himself that he "hasn't survived with the Sharingan alone".
For argument's sake it can be said that, within the context of what the book said, although they have the same strength Kakashi must be far superior at battle intelligence and tactics.
On a side note, even though the book said it I still find it hard to believe that Zabuza is equal to Kakashi. Not only could Zabuza not kill him whenever Haku gave him the perfect opprotunity, but he was also dispached rather easily after the mist was gone (and Kakashi still did not use the Sharingan) through simple melee combat. It just doesn't seem like they're equal at any point.
Lee-pimp
2003-12-15, 18:53
i have to dissagree with one thing vicious-sama in the second fight between kakashi and zabuza zabuza rendered the sharingan useless by using the mist yeah in the first fight kakashi could use it but no no in the second fight so like izulde said kakshi is the same strenght as zabuza but a better fighter
ChouOishii
2003-12-15, 20:38
well... nin means person in japanese... but i think the people around the forum make it out to be ninja... to my chagrin.
umm, not to sound stuck up but.. the kanji nin is the chinese reading (onyomi) of shinobi. it's the same 'nin' used in 'ninja'. the nin you're thinking of is the onyomi of 'hito', which does indeed mean person. the levels are simple compounds too:
jounin = jou (onyomi of ue, which means 'above') + nin
chuunin = chuu (onyomi of naka, middle) + nin
genin = ge (onyomi of shita, under) + nin
I haven't read the raws of anything past the first few volumes, so I'm not sure what 'sennin' translates to.. anbu/aone say 'hermit' but... well, I'll have to buy the rest of the manga to see ^_^;
hobobaggins
2003-12-15, 21:17
umm, not to sound stuck up but.. the kanji nin is the chinese reading (onyomi) of shinobi. it's the same 'nin' used in 'ninja'. the nin you're thinking of is the onyomi of 'hito', which does indeed mean person. the levels are simple compounds too:
jounin = jou (onyomi of ue, which means 'above') + nin
chuunin = chuu (onyomi of naka, middle) + nin
genin = ge (onyomi of shita, under) + nin
I haven't read the raws of anything past the first few volumes, so I'm not sure what 'sennin' translates to.. anbu/aone say 'hermit' but... well, I'll have to buy the rest of the manga to see ^_^;
hehe. you are infact right. if you are right, you can be stuck up.
nin is the counter for people
1+nin=1 person.
i jus' forgot!.... ah well.
Kakashi is stronger than Zabuza... that's why he was able to beat him.
Stickels
2003-12-15, 22:28
they're ninja's, they don't have "power levels" The man who wins is the stronger, and better ninja.
you could say zabuza is a skilled as kakashi (which I don't care what the book said, we all saw that to not be true) you could say he is as smart as kakashi, again something I doubt, you could say he is physically as strong, which I doubt amounts to much in the ninja world, you could say he is as fast.
The fact is there are to many things involved to just throw out something saying that zabuza is "as strong as" kakashi. He's a worse ninja, as we all saw, and not just because of the sharingan, because we all saw him lose even when he had the advantage of fighting in conditions of his choosing.
they're ninja's, they don't have "power levels" The man who wins is the stronger, and better ninja.
you could say zabuza is a skilled as kakashi (which I don't care what the book said, we all saw that to not be true) you could say he is as smart as kakashi, again something I doubt, you could say he is physically as strong, which I doubt amounts to much in the ninja world, you could say he is as fast.
The fact is there are to many things involved to just throw out something saying that zabuza is "as strong as" kakashi. He's a worse ninja, as we all saw, and not just because of the sharingan, because we all saw him lose even when he had the advantage of fighting in conditions of his choosing.
This statement is not ENTIRELY accurate. It's true that Kakashi beat Zabuza in round 1, but ONLY thanks to the help of Naruto & Sasuke who freed him from the Water Prison. It's also true that Kakashi beat Zabuza w/o the assistance of Naruto & co. in round 2, but he had a pretty big gash in his chest. Even though he SAID it was so that the ninja dogs could track the scent of Kakashi's blood, I doubt that was exactly the case. Kakashi got tagged twice; once in the hand and the other across the chest. Kakashi MAY have had the dogs in mind for the hand cut, but the chest is far too vital an area to intentionally sacrifice. So, Zabuza, while still losing, is better than people seem to give him credit for.
Among battles with those of equal strength, skill decides the victor. Zabuza got outsmarted, plain and simple. His only strategy in the 2nd fight was to exploit a particular weakness of the Sharingan, which Kakashi apparently already knew about and was prepared for. Had Kakashi not had dogs in mind for a blind fight, Zabuza would have won.
Yellow Flash
2006-08-26, 14:41
He took a knife blow through his hand and he was cut by the sword of Zabuza all along the thorax, I don't call that to be barely wounded.
He explained that he let Zabuza cut him to get blood on him and find him in the mist.
It wasn't a serious wound, but more like what one would use for kuchiyose.
Zabuza was no match for Kakashi.
Kakashi is stronger than Zabuza... that's why he was able to beat him.
That logic is flawed. This isn't DBZ.
I thought Kakashi intended to be cut by Zabuza so the kuchiyose nin dogs could track Zabuza by using Kakashi's blood on Zabuza's sword?
He explained that he let Zabuza cut him to get blood on him and find him in the mist.
It wasn't a serious wound, but more like what one would use for kuchiyose.
Zabuza was no match for Kakashi.
And then you open your eyes and start trying to think a little and you realize that :
1/Bitting your finger isn't the same kind of wound than getting badly cut through your chest and completely through your hand.
2/You don't do that at all if you have another choice to win.
3/When an opponent is no match for you you don't end up bleeding and completely exhausted unable to fight anymore for days.
And then you open your eyes and start trying to think a little and you realize that :
1/Bitting your finger isn't the same kind of wound than getting badly cut through your chest and completely through your hand.
2/You don't do that at all if you have another choice to win.
3/When an opponent is no match for you you don't end up bleeding and completely exhausted unable to fight anymore for days.
4/And then I realize someone just revived a nearly 3 years old thread, quoted a previous post of mine that I posted nearly 3 years back which I had to read back on to refresh my memory, and then tried to win an argument against me in a thread that had its last post nearly 3 years back. So I ask myself, do I have an obsessive e-stalker who wants my attention by any means necessary and may even be in love with me, or do I have a mortal enemy who deserves to meet my spoon?
I think Hunter should flee at any direction whenever Yellow Flash flashes his/her yellow. :heh: Bless this forum for it never runs out of comedy.
So I ask myself, do I have an obsessive e-stalker who wants my attention by any means necessary and may even be in love with me, or do I have a mortal enemy who deserves to meet my spoon?
I think Hunter should flee at any direction whenever Yellow Flash flashes his/her yellow. :heh: Bless this forum for it never runs out of comedy.
See? You finally understood why Sasuke decided to flee Konoha to come to Oro :D
Yellow Flash
2006-08-27, 02:56
1/Bitting your finger isn't the same kind of wound than getting badly cut through your chest and completely through your hand.
Shinobi are used to such wounds, they are minor. You're overrecating now.
2/You don't do that at all if you have another choice to win.
Why is making your opponent think he hurt you, yet in truth he fell for the trap, such a bad move?
3/When an opponent is no match for you you don't end up bleeding and completely exhausted unable to fight anymore for days.
Let's be fair. Kakashi was exhausted because he used the Sharingan. It wasn't Zabuza's doing.
Let's be fair. Kakashi was exhausted because he used the Sharingan. It wasn't Zabuza's doing.
If Zabuza was no match he wouldnt have to rely on Sharingan.
First, the jounin were already tired (http://www.donatebytes.com/Naruto%20-%20v21%20c184%20p15.png) before the fight.
Second, the fight drained the sound four to the extent where they were resting in enemy territory (http://www.donatebytes.com/Naruto%20-%20v21%20c186%20p02.png) rather than making tracks, simply because they had to use their curse seal lv. 2. Note, that they said they HAD to use it in 4 vs. 2 odds.
Therfore, the Curse Seal probably sacrifices staying power for immediate strength. You get strong enough to be probably around Jounin level or so, but you can only fight for short periods of time.
Shinobi are used to such wounds, they are minor. You're overrecating now.
Why is making your opponent think he hurt you, yet in truth he fell for the trap, such a bad move?
Let's be fair. Kakashi was exhausted because he used the Sharingan. It wasn't Zabuza's doing.
I'm not overreacting, I'm merely stating the obvious which is while being slashed by a sword through the chest isn't like a Chidori piercing your heart it's not like biting your finger either.
Making your opponent fell for a trap is good but it doesn't change anything to the wound you had to take for this. Just like Neji outsmarting Kidoumaru by allowing himself to get transpierced by his arrow at the spot he had chosen didn't change anything to the fact it got a near fatal blow.
Kakashiw as exhausted by the jutsu he had to use in order to beat his opponent so yes it was Zabuza's doing because if Zabuza had been weaker Kakashi wouldn't have had to use them to the point of exhaustion.
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