View Full Version : Whats the differnce between MH Shizuru and MO Tomoe
Up to now (Ep 15) Tomoe has done some sick things and tried to do worse. I believe she should be killed. Reading some of the other threads, that seems to be the sentiment of some posters here.
However, she reminds me of MH Shizuru who also did bad things because of her unfulfilled love; she actually took lives. In that aspect, both Tomoe and Shizuru (MH one) are a bit similiar. Yet, why is it that the viewer response to the both so different? Where Tomoe is depised, Shizuru seems to be respected, even admired.
All i can think of are two reasons offhand:
(1) MH Shizuru paid for her sins by herself "dying" and her own suffering was obvious while Tomoe still walks free, scheming.
(2) Shizuru was driven mad, and thus not thinking rationally while Tomoe schemes and plans to carry out her dark deeds just because she wants a rival out of the way.
(3) Shizuru was driven by love, while Tomoe by jealousy (although that still springs fro her love rite?)
Just my opinions. Any others? Feel free to add on to the points above.
(1) MH Shizuru paid for her sins by herself "dying" and her own suffering was obvious while Tomoe still walks free, scheming.
That's because Tomoe knew what she's doing. As for Shizuru, she's just plain obssessed.
darkwing
2006-01-25, 00:08
Tomoe smiles in people's faces and stabs them in the back at the next best opportunity. She's constantly scheming, bullying and trying to harm or even kill others.
MH Shizuru has never been like that.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-25, 00:15
Well for starters, the only people that Shizuru hurt are the Himes which technically she's suppose to do in the first place. Yeah she killed Nao's mom and Haruka but that's the price the Himes are to pay for having them as their most precious persons. I mean that's the whole point of the carnival in the first place.
She was also protecting Natsuki. First time around Nao was torturing Natsuki so she came and rescued her. Thanks to Haruka's stubborness she forced Shizuru's hands. THen again with Nao when she attacked Natsuki again.
In Tomoe's case such a carnival is not in place and apparently she's doing it so she can have Shiruzu's attention.:heh: She's just axing off innocent people that didn't even bothered with her in the first place. Shiruzu was just doing what the Himes are suppose to do, fight each other.
I'm not defending MH Shizuru (the things she did were pretty heinous), but there is one thing that separates them, in my opinion:
Shizuru did all of her own dirty work. It's hard to have respect for someone who forces other people to do things so they can keep their hands clean.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-01-25, 00:19
(I had written a long reply, but the net crashed on me... Try again, I guess.)
The main difference here is that the MH Shizuru, even at her most crazed stage, only thought about serving Natsuki's best interests. That's why she went on a killing rampage at the 1st district and attempting to kill all the other Himes.
While MO Tomoe has only ever tried to serve herself. It's always about how she herself could get close to Shizuru, instead of trying to do what's best for Shizuru.
If MH Shizuru was like the MO Tomoe, that Kendo guy (whom I could never remembered the name of) would be skewered like a piglet by now for seeing Natsuki's privates.:heh:
MH Shizuru was someone in love who was driven to madness.
MO Tomoe was someone who was selfish and mad, who just happens to be in love.
shikamarufoo
2006-01-25, 00:29
If MH Shizuru was like the MO Tomoe, that Kendo guy (whom I could never remembered the name of) would be skewered like a piglet by now for seeing Natsuki's privates.:heh:
MH Shizuru was someone in love who was driven to madness.
MO Tomoe was someone who was selfish and mad, who just happens to be in love.
^Agree with both statements and I also forgot the Kendo guys' name:D ...
Shizuru did some bad stuff herself because she was going crazy and mad, while Tomoe still sane yet she's just mad and scheming, and she's making other people do stuff for her.
lone_wolf
2006-01-25, 01:24
Theres a fine line between love and obsession, and Shizuru has jumped a billion yards past that line of obsession. Molesting, Natsuki while she sleeps, thats not what you call love. Natsuki was mortified by that finding for sure.
Tomoe is just an ebil lesbo, Shizuru is a psycho lesbo, thats the difference.
Oh here we go again. First off, it's not proven. And Natsuki does not act like a person who has been molested. Please don't make me explain how I know what it's like. It's a long story....I could write a novel.
To understand Shizuru, one must take a look at the DVD omakes and radio dramas that accompany their story. Natsuki was mortified by what she heard and may have conjured up that image herself. This was repeated many times but did you happen to notice the grain-quality image and how Natsuki and Shizuru were shown in reverse? Like I had mentioned, nothing has been proven but I do believe Natsuki did not suffer that fate. Someone who has gone through something that traumatic would not be saying this in DVD 8 and 9:
DVD 8: Natsuki
Natsuki:
She's a beautiful but weird girl, that's
what I thought, when I first met her.
I knew who she was since
she's famous throughout the school.
So, at first, I didn't really understand...
Why does Shizuru bother with me?
She's calm but extremely sharp.
Sometimes she tells indecent jokes
to me and tease me.
It bothered me so much that I asked her,
"Why do you hang around me?"
She simply smiled and said,
"It's because I like you, lets become friends."
Friends...
After my mother died, I lived alone.
Saying 'I can't trust anyone'.
But...
Shizuru, I wasn't going to ever
tell you what I felt when you said those words.
To tell you the truth, I was surprised
that you could say something so
compassionate, so casually.
I was really... Happy about it.
DVD 9: Natsuki
Natsuki:
The world around me exists to betray me,
that's how I always thought.
All the remained inside of me
was nothing but the flames of revenge...
That was the only reason I kept on living.
But... before I realized it, you were all around me.
Shizuru was there, Mai was there, Mikoto was there.
And I was smiling with them.
I would have angrily lived on without noticing any of it...
But Shizuru's intimate/close feelings to me.
Mai and Tate's mutual feelings to each other
They let me realize that
no one can't live alone.
It's a very natural thing
but it's very important.
So right now... though it's a bit embarrassing,
it's something I need to say.
Thank you,
thank you to all the people
who stayed by my side.
*Sigh*....this thread may be one it's way to being locked. I could already see this as potential flame bait.
But to stay on topic, Tomoe was evil and selfish from the get go. There!
--Lone Wolf
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-01-25, 01:28
Theres a fine line between love and obsession, and Shizuru has jumped a billion yards past that line of obsession. Molesting, Natsuki while she sleeps, thats not what you call love. Natsuki was mortified by that finding for sure.
Tomoe is just an ebil lesbo, Shizuru is a psycho lesbo, thats the difference.
First of all, we have no evidence of what actually occured. Natsuki was merely mortified by the suggestion that something happened.
Second, if Shizuru was merely a Psycho, what stops her from simply locking Natsuki up in her basement Steven-King Misery-style and having her way with her?
(On the other hand, I can imagine MO Tomoe doing such a thing.)
Shizuru has ALWAYS placed Natsuki's needs first. Insane or not. Shizuru was afraid of Natsuki rejecting her because it was not lust that she desires, but Natsuki's acceptance.
Why would Shizuru bother to hunt down the 1st District if she didn't think it would serve Natsuki's interests?
lone_wolf
2006-01-25, 01:32
First of all, we have no evidence of what actually occured. Natsuki was merely mortified by the suggestion that something happened.
Second, if Shizuru was merely a Psycho, what stops her from simply locking Natsuki up in her basement Steven-King Misery-style and having her way with her?
(On the other hand, I can imagine MO Tomoe doing such a thing.)
Shizuru has ALWAYS placed Natsuki's needs first. Insane or not. Shizuru was afraid of Natsuki rejecting her because it was not lust that she desires, but Natsuki's acceptance.
Why would Shizuru bother to hunt down the 1st District if she didn't think it would serve Natsuki's interests?
Amen to that.
--Lone Wolf
Erm.. where did you get that Asianknight82 quote from??? edit=oh i just saw the post deleted heading. :S :S
*Back to topic*
Personally IMO, its true, Shizuru did always care for Natsuki, you see it in bucketloads in MO too. But that care went to the extent of wanting Natsuki exclusively for herself, as you see in their fight in ep25, MH. As for Tomoe, she does seem to be more interested in keeping Shizuru to herself, what drives her is she wants to solely keep Shizuru's attention on her and her alone, as if needing that attention/regconition. How is that different from MH Shizuru?
Then again, another line of thought: Tomoe is doing the bad things for HERSELF, Shizuru did all those bad stuff for Natsuki.
Not against Shizuru, just pursuing some lines of thought.
I love you, Dun flame me. :love:
Personally IMO, its true, Shizuru did always care for Natsuki, you see it in bucketloads in MO too. But that care went to the extent of wanting Natsuki exclusively for herself, as you see in their fight in ep25, MH. As for Tomoe, she does seem to be more interested in keeping Shizuru to herself, what drives her is she wants to solely keep Shizuru's attention on her and her alone, as if needing that attention/regconition. How is that different from MH Shizuru?
By the time episode 25 came round I think anyone who was left in the BR was at desperation levels - the most stable was probably Natsuki which is quite something considering how low she got at ep 22. Episode 25 is interesting because it does seem that Shizuru gets a bit more ''with it'' (crying Shizuru, aww) - the previous two are almost like a rapid downward spiral, but once Natsuki gets her 'guns' back in ep 24, then:
she must sincerely believe Natsuki's MVP isn't her, so in a sense she has to beat Natsuki's child as well, to protect her own MVP/Natsuki. Of course it doesn't play out that way, but it probably explains why Shizuru was quite brittle in that episode.
Ummm tying this into Tomoe, I think Tomoe lacks something 'tangible' with Shizuru - she obviously can't be doing it for Shizuru's needs because she doesn't seem to really know Shizuru. The whole thing seems to stem from an obsessional aspect in Tomoe's personality. She won't back down now, and I can't even really see any desperate 'logic' in it, which MH Shizuru did definitely have...
Essentially, I think Vallen summed it up very well with:
"MH Shizuru was someone in love who was driven to madness.
MO Tomoe was someone who was selfish and mad, who just happens to be in love."
I think it is little too soon for comparision like that. We know what Tomoe did, but we don't know, what she will do in next episodes. And MHShizuru did nothing wrong till episode 15 of MH. She was adorable tea drinking Kaichou-sama and nobody expected her to go rampage in the name of Natsuki. At this point of series Tomoe is totally different. We know she is evil. If she kills it would be pretty difficult to find excuses for her like for MHShizuru.
Takemi_Ikazuchi
2006-01-25, 05:33
Shizuru is cagalli
Tomoe is lacus clyne; or if you prefer suigintou
otherwise,
Shizuru is mostly a perverted oyaji (old geezer) in woman's body.. She'd most likely go to jail for sexual harassmant or maybe pedophilia.. maybe..
Tomoe is the kind of girl you find in psychological thriller movies.. She'd most likely be on death row. smiling elegantly...
Oh here we go again. First off, it's not proven.
But it's interesting to note that Shizuru never bothered to deny Yukino's allegations, IIRC, so I happen to think that they were very much true.
Someone who has gone through something that traumatic would not be saying this in DVD 8 and 9:
I don't know, a lot of stuff from the end of the series makes absolutely no sense considering the characters' development prior to episode 26 (for instance Nao forgiving Shizuru and becoming a nun or Shiho having no problems with Mai and Tate's love affair) so I would trust more what I see in episodes 21-25 than extras and drama CDs.
Second, if Shizuru was merely a Psycho, what stops her from simply locking Natsuki up in her basement Steven-King Misery-style and having her way with her?
I think that she was about to do something like that after getting rid of the other HiMEs. All the remarks "You are mine" and the total disregard for what Natsuki was trying to say to her point to that.
At least Tomoe for now doesn't seem to pretend she is doing her evil deeds for someone else which helps me like her more than Shizuru. But I suspect she will eventually pull a Shizuru when caught and will pretend that she has done everything for Shizuru's benefit.:eyespin:
I don't know, a lot of stuff from the end of the series makes absolutely no sense considering the characters' development prior to episode 26 (for instance Nao forgiving Shizuru and becoming a nun or Shiho having no problems with Mai and Tate's love affair) so I would trust more what I see in episodes 21-25 than extras and drama CDs.
Actually, they do make sense, considering that their positions before and after the whole "carnival" was completely different.
Before: Their MVP on the line, fear of losing their MVP, tension.
After: Everything minus the above.
About Nao: The removal of the above "responsibility" should be reasonable enough for her to turn over a new leaf. Plus, she wasn't exactly an "evil" person, and her reaction to the loss of her child/MVP shows that she is more humane than she has shown.
About Shiho: She experienced the loss of Tate due to her selfishness once already, surely she wouldn't want to lose him again, right? Development right there, a common one at that.
darkwing
2006-01-25, 08:03
But it's interesting to note that Shizuru never bothered to deny Yukino's allegations, IIRC, so I happen to think that they were very much true.
Huh? Yukino said she saw how Shizuru kissed Natsuki. There isn't much to deny, is there?
It was way too rapid, IMO. One moment Shiho hates Mai and Tate, the next time we see her she loves them. Sure, a lot of time had passed, things have changed drastically but still it never worked for me. A star, or no star, HiME or no HiME, the source of conflict, namely tate was still there. Maybe it's because I have never liked the notion that most of the betrayals and evil deeds done by the HiMEs were due to the influence of the star, I prefer to think the problems were rooted in their respective characters and the HiME powers were just means for the characters' agenda.
Same for Nao. I never thought she was evil, I just don't think she would forgive easily - she was pissed at Shizuru even right before destroyng the HiME star, that doesn't exactly point at someone willing to let go easily, does it? ;)
It was way too rapid, IMO. One moment Shiho hates Mai and Tate, the next time we see her she loves them. Sure, a lot of time had passed, things have changed drastically but still it never worked for me. A star, or no star, HiME or no HiME, the source of conflict, namely tate was still there. Maybe it's because I have never liked the notion that most of the betrayals and evil deeds done by the HiMEs were due to the influence of the star, I prefer to think the problems were rooted in their respective characters and the HiME powers were just means for the characters' agenda.
Same for Nao. I never thought she was evil, I just don't think she would forgive easily - she was pissed at Shizuru even right before destroyng the HiME star, that doesn't exactly point at someone willing to let go easily, does it? ;)
About Shiho, I would think that getting Tate killed due to her implusiveness is enough of a shock for someone to realise what's "truely important". Surely Shiho would know that if she truely loves Tate, that she would wish him happiness with Mai? Of course, I DO feel that there should had been a slight "competition" put up by her at least, not that its necessary.
Plus, Tate wasn't "really" a couple with Mai yet, was he? Afterall, Reito(without OL) was still after Mai, not forgetting Mikoto(who loves to stuff her face at Mai's you-know-what:naughty:).
For Nao, she wasn't pissed enough to attack Shizuru, was she?(after the himes/MVPs got revived). Plus, she didnt have to interact/talk to Shizuru while being a nun, and we weren't shown any interactions between them.
Its not that hard to avoid a person...(unless you're stalked by Shizuru:heh:)
Huh? Yukino said she saw how Shizuru kissed Natsuki. There isn't much to deny, is there?
This part was really open for interpretation. Yukino said : "I've seen it. Just like you kissed her a moment ago while Kuga-san was asleep". Since she said "I" and "just like" I assume she had seen Shizuru doing this not once and maybe doing other things, too.
For Nao, she wasn't pissed enough to attack Shizuru, was she?
Well, it seemed to me that she was pissed enough to attack but this wasn't the right moment. :) But that's mostly off-topic, so let's stop here, OK?
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-01-25, 09:17
At least Tomoe for now doesn't seem to pretend she is doing her evil deeds for someone else which helps me like her more than Shizuru. But I suspect she will eventually pull a Shizuru when caught and will pretend that she has done everything for Shizuru's benefit.
So you prefer her to pretend someone else did it? And to call her henchwoman "useless garbage" even though Miya not once betrayed her...
Indeed, Tomoe didn't pretend to do evil deeds for someone else. Instead, she pretended her evil deeds were DONE by someone else.
Are you actually suggesting that MO Tomoe is more honest than MH Shizuru?:twitch: :eyespin:
EDIT:
MH Shizuru BELIEVES that she was doing everything for Natsuki's benefit. Especially after she thinks Natsuki was lost to her. She killed the 1st District not so she could win Natsuki, because she had gave up by that point.
Since when did Shizuru "pretend" to help Natsuki? When? Because I can't find such an example. You can't pretend to do something when you are actually doing it. Natsuki hates the 1st District and wants to destroy it. That's a fact. Shizuru destroyed 1st District. That is also a fact. You can't deny that Shizuru helped. You also can't deny that Shizuru had gave up trying to win Natsuki's heart by that point, which was the whole point of her madness.
As I said, and I will say it again. If Shizuru simply wants to own Natsuki, as an object and plaything, she has enough power to do so by force. But she wants to love and be loved.
Her insanity did not start until Natsuki rejected her.
Are you actually suggesting that MO Tomoe is more honest than MH Shizuru?
Yes, but I meant that Tomoe seems more honest to herself as far as I can tell. Shizuru deluded herself that she was killing for Natsuki's sake (which was kind of impossible since Natsuki tried to make her stop) while Tomoe is doing her deeds without such justification, at least up to now. Her modus operandi seems to be "I hate Arika therefore Arika must disappear", not "Well, the circumstances force me to do it". But as I said I expect that to change.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-01-25, 09:51
Yes, but I meant that Tomoe seems more honest to herself as far as I can tell. Shizuru deluded herself that she was killing for Natsuki's sake (which was kind of impossible since Natsuki tried to make her stop) while Tomoe is doing her deeds without such justification, at least up to now. Her modus operandi seems to be "I hate Arika therefore Arika must disappear", not "Well, the circumstances force me to do it". But as I said I expect that to change.
I suppose Natsuki merely wants to have a nice chat with 1st district, then?
I personaly believe Natsuki wants Shizuru to stop because she doesn't want Shizuru to kill for her. A natural reaction, especially when realising that someone you cared about is killing under your name.
What did you think Natsuki's intention was for the 1st District?
And what did you think 1st District would have done had they caught Natsuki during one of her spying missions?
EDIT:
And one other point... What makes you think Tomoe would be at "Shizuru's level" if she claimed she did it all for Shizuru's sake? That would just be another lie, won't it? What makes that any better or worse than she already is now?
Are you saying it's better to be an evil liar who knows full well what she's doing and do bad things intentionally, than to be a mentally imbalanced woman who did bad things because she isn't in control of her own thought processes?
I suppose Natsuki merely wants to have a nice chat with 1st district, then?
Well, she never struck me as someone who would go and kill all of the First District personnel in their headquarters as Shizuru did but that's not really the issue. I don't think Natsuki wanted for instance Haruka to "die", never mind Shizuru killing for her or not.
What makes you think Tomoe would be at "Shizuru's level" if she claimed she did it all for Shizuru's sake? That would just be another lie, won't it?
It depends on whether Tomoe would believe what she claims or not. If not, then it would be just another lie. If yes, her justification would be basically the same as Shizuru's in MH.
MH Shizuru BELIEVES that she was doing everything for Natsuki's benefit. Especially after she thinks Natsuki was lost to her. She killed the 1st District not so she could win Natsuki, because she had gave up by that point.
Had she? Yet she uttered "You belong to me" to Natsuki AFTER destroying First District headquarters.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-01-25, 10:15
My point remains.
Shizuru's actions were from a mind no longer functional, while Tomoe's actions were planned out and with careful acts of concealment. Tomoe may or may not become insane later, but for now she knows full well what she is doing.
And you are saying a person intentionally performing crimes is better than someone who performs crimes in a legally mentally insane state?
At least Tomoe for now doesn't seem to pretend she is doing her evil deeds for someone else which helps me like her more than Shizuru.
Shizuru wasn't pretending anything; she was raving mad. There is a difference.
And you are saying a person intentionally performing crimes is better than someone who performs crimes in a legally mentally insane state?
Of course not, I just happen to prefer fictional villains who are not totally mad. But judging by the evil smile of Tomoe in episode 14 I think she is very close to madness already anyway. :heh:
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-01-25, 10:36
Of course not, I just happen to prefer fictional villains who are not totally mad. But judging by the evil smile of Tomoe in episode 14 I think she is very close to madness already anyway. :heh:
Well, in that case isn't Nagi a better candidate?
Tomoe would have been a great villain if she had more actual power than merely the ability to control Miya. (which I suspect/guess/speculate is due to Miya's romantic love for her.)
But Tomoe is doomed to small-time petty crimes, and would eventially fall by the way side when the big girls come out and play. I once hoped that she had capabilities for generating much chaos and destruction in Gardrobe. But ever since Miya was removed from the picture, it has now become apparent Tomoe had no cards left to play.
If Miya was the only minion Tomoe had, Tomoe really should have had taken better care of her. I previously thought Tomoe had an army of backup drones to take Miya's place from the way she treats her, but it appears the assumption was wrong.
A true villian would have backup plans. A true villain would try to expand her influence past a single minion. A true villain would try to keep a loyal minion at all costs if that minion was the only minion she has.
Tomoe has the will, and the desire, to be a villain. But she fails in the execution because she had no talent in the area. It takes skill to be evil effectively, and Tomoe has none of the skill.
As I said, and I will say it again. If Shizuru simply wants to own Natsuki, as an object and plaything, she has enough power to do so by force. But she wants to love and be loved.
Yes, I agree. But when that "be loved" was denied, She was perfectly happy with just owning Natsuki (Ep 25 again, The "You'll be Mine" routine).
And yes, thats the point of this whole thread isn't it? Shizuru is accepted because her actions stemmed, as Vallen puts it, "from a mind no longer functional", one that had reached breaking point where love turned in obsession--one surely cant blame her entirely for that. While Tomoe's mind is functioning perfectly and deliberately, knowing "full well what she is doing," and the full consequences of her actions on Arika.
I think I understand Matrim when he says that Tomoe is in a sense more honest, (correct me if i'm wrong) in that she accepts and even relishes what she is planning and carrying out, while Shizuru did it blankly, in a flash, "all in the circumstances" kinda thing. This makes some of us dislike Tomoe all the more.
:heh:
But ever since Miya was removed from the picture, it has now become apparent Tomoe had no cards left to play.
It is still kinda early to say that for sure...
Well, in that case isn't Nagi a better candidate?
Sure, I like Nagi a lot more than Tomoe. But you have to feel for her, always trying to create trouble for Arika who is protected by the fact that by virtue of being the main character she just won't die and will always prevail. ;)
t ever since Miya was removed from the picture, it has now become apparent Tomoe had no cards left to play.
I doubt that, too much time has been spent on Tomoe to just eliminate her from the big picture like that. I think she still has a few tricks up her sleeve. If not, her character would be just another thing to complain about in Otome.
Captain Picard
2006-01-25, 10:46
Tomoe is different from Shizuru, but I still like Tomoe more than Shizuru. In MH, Shizuru appeared to be a weak person who was driven mad by a person rejecting her. MO Tomoe does, at the very least, know what she wants. She is certain of her course, uninfluenced by the wants and needs of others, and because of that I like her a lot more.
Although to be fair, I've always hated Shizuru from first sight for some reason.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-01-25, 10:56
The reason why I believe Tomoe will soon be out of the picture (and I admit it is a personal belief, rather than anything backed by evidence) is that I believe Miya is destined to do something REALLY major. And now that she is no longer IN Gardrobe, the main target for her "major activity" would likely be Tomoe.
Obviously, this assumes that Miya doesn't vanish and never appear in the story again. And I know the probability is 50/50 that she is gone forever.
I mean... People assumed that Tomoe would go crazy for Shizuru and do something nutty. So what stops Miya go crazy for Tomoe and do something nutty first?:heh:
I know this is speculation territory rather than facts, but hey, this is just my views. You don't have to agree with them.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-25, 12:17
Second, if Shizuru was merely a Psycho, what stops her from simply locking Natsuki up in her basement Steven-King Misery-style and having her way with her?
(On the other hand, I can imagine MO Tomoe doing such a thing.)
I am hoping Miya will pull a misery on Tomoe for a ending. It would be the perfect ending for that couple.
darkwing
2006-01-25, 15:07
This part was really open for interpretation. Yukino said : "I've seen it. Just like you kissed her a moment ago while Kuga-san was asleep". Since she said "I" and "just like" I assume she had seen Shizuru doing this not once and maybe doing other things, too.
If I understand that part correctly, Yukino says "Atashi mitan desu. Sakki kisu shita mitai ni nemutte iru Kuga-san wa anata ga.""
The "mitai ni" should refer to "kisu shita", and that sentence would translate to "It seems you just kissed the sleeping Kuga-san."
Could someone who speaks Japanese back me up or prove me wrong?
ZippyDSM
2006-01-25, 17:17
!! lets keep the convos civil please! I ahte to see catgirls doing so much work over pll being stupid ><!!( BTW if this needs to be edited out go ahead I dont mind,fix my spelling errors to while your at it :P)
Anyway I think the main diffreance is that altho Shizuru was "evil" she did things respecfuly most of the time...altho near the end she just went suki for natsuki LOL,coem on Shiz likes girls and focused on natsuki she wanted her so bad it broke her mental state well LOVE and haveing to FIGHT broke her 0_o,lest thats my feeling.
Anyway Tomoe is just evil and unable IMO to do her own dirty work,shes going to get the crap beaten out of her soon >> mark my words << *L* if she dosnet shes just going to be a htorn in all the "good" girls sides >>
Just to clarify one matter:
The OL told Nagi to tell Shizuru that the First District was the enemy of Natsuki, thats why she went to annilate(sp?) them.
In other words, the OL was using Shizuru to wipe out the First District, his oppositions. It was nothing Shizuru(pre or post rejection) planned on doing. Just that post-rejection, she couldn't tell right from wrong anymore. Perfect for manipulation(which the OL clearly took advantage of).
And yes, I believe the whole point of the topic was to find the reason why Tomoe is hated more than MH Shizuru.
ZippyDSM
2006-01-26, 02:46
Eclipze
whats your Sig from and how do I get more pics of them...her.... IT!!!!!!!!! 0-o
*L*
BTW to keep this post from being deleted I must say you are right :P
If I understand that part correctly, Yukino says "Atashi mitan desu. Sakki kisu shita mitai ni nemutte iru Kuga-san wa anata ga.""
The "mitai ni" should refer to "kisu shita", and that sentence would translate to "It seems you just kissed the sleeping Kuga-san."
Could someone who speaks Japanese back me up or prove me wrong?
I'm Japanese and though I don't watch the part over again, if your Japanese romaji description is right, your translation looks reasonable.
Yes, I agree. But when that "be loved" was denied, She was perfectly happy with just owning Natsuki (Ep 25 again, The "You'll be Mine" routine).
"Perfectly happy?" Shizuru was crying at some point, she was looking very sad for the last few ep, even if she keeps saying "you belong to me," she just embrace Natsuki after she finally capture her.
I don't know about you but to me, that is way too far to be called "happy."
"Perfectly happy?" Shizuru was crying at some point, she was looking very sad for the last few ep, even if she keeps saying "you belong to me," she just embrace Natsuki after she finally capture her.
I don't know about you but to me, that is way too far to be called "happy."
Sorry, you misunderstand me, but I admit "happy" wasnt such an appropriate word to use. :heh: I don't mean Shizuru was "Happy" at that point, as you pointed out, that was one of the most heart-wrenching moments in the Series. I think a better word would be "Satisfied". I meant that If Shizuru couldnt get Natsuki's love, She was satisfied just to own Natsuki, (Hence her obsessive fight to capture Natsuki) as if by owning her everything would be better again (How she embraced Natsuki).
Hmmm... anymore reasons why Tomoe is more hated than Shizuru? I like that insightful reason given about Tomoe not doing the dirty work herself, but hiding herself behind her henchwoman. Never thought of that.
Eclipze
whats your Sig from and how do I get more pics of them...her.... IT!!!!!!!!! 0-o
*L*
BTW to keep this post from being deleted I must say you are right :P
:topicoff:
Its from Fate/stay night. Theres a subforum for that anime, and you can request for a sig there.
And yes, Im a proud member of the riding Rider club.:naughty:
On topic: Probably because Tomoe pretends to be nice, and backstabs others when they're not looking. Add that with the fact that she manipulates Miya into doing her dirty work which makes her so despicable.
Or in Matrim's case, lovable.:twitch:
Or in Matrim's case, lovable
I wouldn't say lovable, just a lot more interesting and less annoying than MH Shizuru.
I wouldn't say lovable, just a lot more interesting and less annoying than MH Shizuru.
My bad. More likeable than MH Shizuru. Right?
Glass Cannon
2006-01-26, 08:25
I loved MH Shizuru. Actually, MO Shizuru isn't as cool to me for some reason o.O; As for reasons why... maybe it was just because I hated Tate. Okay, that doesn't make as much sense typed out as it does in my head, but meh! I think that without psycho Shizuru, well, how exactly would the ending have gone? Very boring in my opinion, because it would be all about Mai/Tate, with some Mikoto thrown in. Or something... but this is beside the point.
As for Tomoe, I really don't like or dislike her. Honestly I don't feel like I've seen enough of her to really make a decision. I think she's different than MH Shizuru, but how exactly? I'm going to wait for some more Tomoe/Shizuru interaction to find out...
darkwing
2006-01-26, 08:51
I'm Japanese and though I don't watch the part over again, if your Japanese romaji description is right, your translation looks reasonable.
thanks :)
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