View Full Version : [Mai Otome] Episode 16 Discussion/Poll
Check it out. Compare Shizuru's, Natsuki's, and Nao's robes with thier Mai HiME counterpart's children.
Duran was all about silver and light blue chrome, Kiyohime was shades of violet and purple, and Julia was yellow and green.
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7387/otomepillars0ox.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=otomepillars0ox.jpg)
Click me for larger version
And Mai's robe seems to be based on the colours of the Fuuka Gakuen girls uniform she wore.
The shadow didn't match her hair, though. There were two small spikes to the side. IMO, if it's a known character, it's most probably Irina, she's the only main coral who has small spikes on her hair.
Of course, it could be just a random coral, or those spikes somehow weren't part of her hair. Besides, anyone who receives the black letter dies soon, and we know that Tomoe won't be dying too early.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/NeonZ/BlackLetter.jpg
Spikes = Bow on uniform.
My only (mild) complaint about this episode is that Erstin has no spine. I realize that she's a cuddlebear and doesn't want to hurt anyone, but someone tried to maim one of her best friends! All she does is look mildly angsty about it? That bugged me a little. She's sweet and all, but if her lack of a spine gets Arika (or worse, Nina) hurt, I'm going to be upset.
Cuddlebear :heh:
I think she has spine, she took some nasty burning for Arika, that was pretty selfless. I too was surprised a little by her inner conflict, but it does fit Erstin's non judgemental side.
I think she was left reeling a bit from it as well - these are very serious events which she bore the brunt of. Some people have a very bizarre feeling of wanting to 'help' people who are essentially 'cruel' or 'losing control'. Or maybe Erstin knowing that it's over Shizuru..well perhaps she sees a confliction she can relate to or that she knows the ''reason'' for Tomoe's behaviour and that there could be a solution (which there isn't as Tomoe has lost it and you'd think Erstin would see it too) I dunno, Erstin is not very decisive, she's probably not use to having ''the snitching power'' and ending a person's time as a Coral.
I don't actually think she's been threatened either, Erstin was susprised by these developments, and admittedly Tomoe did look troubled when all the Corals were gathered around Ers' bed (and not just ''oh crap is she going to snitch'' way - it wasn't panic, it was, I can't think of the word - it was like someone who has almost accepted how far they'll have to go). Thinking about that, why are people allowed to crowd round the bed of unconscious Corals - it's happened before in 6 - I love that anime convention - they wake up and there are at least half a dozen people waiting for that moment. But anyway. EDIT: Ah yes, Erstin was not unconscious it seems, I retract the above...
Erstin must know the severity of what Tomoe could have done, it's not just rivalry, it's murder.
Maybe Erstin does fear for her life, although I didn't get that impression - she probably sees Tomoe spinning out of contol - but if Erstin tries to 'reason with' or 'understand' Tomoe then I daren't think what will happen.
I can't believe she's so......sick to the core. Are all girls that crazy when they're jealous?
Yes. Yes they are.
:heh:
Tomoe is a big bad cookie now, although not typically; she's just reached insane-action-over-thought. She's not planning some great murder in the 'traditional evil way' - tipping acid on the girl's head - interesting tactic - in broad daylight - under the suspicion of not one but two people. And using Miyas test-tube? How very symbolic. I'm a little bemused by her joining Schwarz (although we don't know 100% if she is, although you'd think so), it's now self explained 'evil' which is a bit disappointing. On the other hand she's sometimes more sinister than Nagi, Argoss and J.Smith are combined. So it's the only way she can really go (and the only way to keep Rie Tanaka in Otome till the end woohoo).
I thought she look very piss off at losing to Arika especialy when they announce that Shizuru was back.
Anything Shizuru related always comes at the worst possible time.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-27, 14:33
Since Nao is now Spider-woman
is Rado the new Ironman then :eyebrow: :heh: :p
Check it out. Compare Shizuru's, Natsuki's, and Nao's robes with thier Mai HiME counterpart's children.
Duran was all about silver and light blue chrome, Kiyohime was shades of violet and purple, and Julia was yellow and green.
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7387/otomepillars0ox.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=otomepillars0ox.jpg)
And Mai's robe seems to be based on the colours of the Fuuka Gakuen girls uniform she wore.
I swear, seeing this I have to conclude that batwomans child would have to be one huge black bat.
Sheladins child would probably be a transparent genie. IF they had one...
Spikes = Bow on uniform.
Bows on the uniform's shouder(I assume you mean the bows on the white piece, and not the main red uniform) are rarely drawn like spikes.
Of course, it could just be a small animation error.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-27, 14:46
Check it out. Compare Shizuru's, Natsuki's, and Nao's robes with thier Mai HiME counterpart's children.
Duran was all about silver and light blue chrome, Kiyohime was shades of violet and purple, and Julia was yellow and green.
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7387/otomepillars0ox.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=otomepillars0ox.jpg)
And Mai's robe seems to be based on the colours of the Fuuka Gakuen girls uniform she wore.
Are the other girls base on Himes form the Manga? A little crossover sale :eyebrow:
Mai's meister outfit has the same color like kagutsuchi.
I really like Nao's cheeky expression in the imag, just fits her so well.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-27, 15:14
Bows on the uniform's shouder(I assume you mean the bows on the white piece, and not the main red uniform) are rarely drawn like spikes.
Of course, it could just be a small animation error.
It's a shadow of the bow (Look at the uniforms) so it looks like a spike on the shadow.
But otherwise.....correct me if I'm wrong but do Black Letters only work on down-on-the-luck people? I mean that construction worker didn't seem too happy before he recieved the letter. The others I can't say but I'm just curious because then Schwarz can just decieve all the otomes with those letters.
Are the other girls base on Himes form the Manga? A little crossover sale :eyebrow:
Mai's meister outfit has the same color like kagutsuchi.
I really like Nao's cheeky expression in the imag, just fits her so well.Doesn't seem so. I don't off-handily remember seeing either girl in the manga version. Watch as someone proves me wrong :p
But otherwise.....correct me if I'm wrong but do Black Letters only work on down-on-the-luck people? I mean that construction worker didn't seem too happy before he recieved the letter. The others I can't say but I'm just curious because then Schwarz can just decieve all the otomes with those letters.
Good point, but I don't think that was ever stated. The guy from episode 14 didn't seem unhappy before receiving the letter, did he?...
Xellos-_^
2006-01-27, 15:28
Good point, but I don't think that was ever stated. The guy from episode 14 didn't seem unhappy before receiving the letter, did he?...
I don't think we actually seen how the black letter works. So anything right is speculation unless the manga has something.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-27, 15:43
Yeah that's what I was wondering. I think it could be like in Warcraft III where the Undead started a cult in Lordaron by targeting people that were down on their luck.
I mean, if the letter can decieve anyone, then why not just use it on Natsuki and Shirizuru and such and problem solved.
But hold it, how is that possible if the Shipyard was destroyed? Perhaps it was, but I don't think it'll prevent travel. We all know that Garderobe will be involved in this...While travel is possible for some. How many oridinary people is able to corss that desert by themselves. It is the sand ships that enable mass transportation and most of the ships were probably destory in the initial attack.
That's exactly my point. Most of the students wouldn't have a chance in surviving, even Nina, yetthey are being sent home
Thank goodness Arika has a contract with Mashiro. Though it would be suicidal to go against that many slaves, at least she is not bound by a contract not to do so.Like that would stop Arika.True, and that's why I like Arika. No fear.
It's ironic that her fight with Tomoe ended so quickly, and that Tomoe was the last person for Arika to defeat. This would imply that Tomoe defeated 1/4 of the students herself. But what an interesting difference in battle skills between the two. It's as if Tomoe lost on purpose. She sure didn't appear that upset for loosing either.I thought she look very piss off at losing to Arika especialy when they announce that Shizuru was back.True, especially when the name Shizuru came up. But I'm not saying that Tomoe lost on purpose, for I did notice that she was a bit angry. To rephrase myself, the fight looked a little one sided, as if Tomoe was not even a challenge to Arika, or didn't take it serious. But then we don't know how much her fight with Tomoe really lasted. On second thoughts, I'll retract that whole statement.
Having another look at the 'damage recorder', it was already up most of the way when it recorded the final hit, indicating that Tomoe's limit was used up. Now I am curious as to what Arika's meter level would've been.
The shadow didn't match her hair, though. There were two small spikes to the side. IMO, if it's a known character, it's most probably Irina, she's the only main coral who has small spikes on her hair.
Of course, it could be just a random coral, or those spikes somehow weren't part of her hair. Besides, anyone who receives the black letter dies soon, and we know that Tomoe won't be dying too early.
No, those letters are different than before. They're all black whereas the previous ones are white and black on the inside. I think they contain instructions and not necessarily a crystal.
I also don't think that crystals work on otomes-to-be. First because they're women, and second, because of the nanomachines. So far the only people we've seen calling up slaves are men.
Anime Adoru
2006-01-27, 18:27
Thank goodness Arika has a contract with Mashiro. Though it would be suicidal to go against that many slaves, at least she is not bound by a contract not to do so. I hope Smith will be surprised.
I thought this episode was mediocre; the only thing that got me energized was the part in the OP where Mashiro gives Arika permission to materialize, and the next we see she is facing that huge army of slaves. Woah!!! So if that relates to the current situation, then Arika will soon fight these slaves.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-27, 18:52
No, those letters are different than before. They're all black whereas the previous ones are white and black on the inside. I think they contain instructions and not necessarily a crystal.
.......:eyebrow:
It's a black envelope inside a white envelope to remove suspicion when being delivered. How the heck did you come to that? Remember when that construction worker got a letter? It was a white envelope and enclosed in it was the black envelope so that only HE saw it.
I also don't think that crystals work on otomes-to-be. First because they're women, and second, because of the nanomachines. So far the only people we've seen calling up slaves are men.
We see a women recieving a black letter just like anyone else in this episode aside from the otome.
ArchDragon
2006-01-27, 19:10
Yeah that's what I was wondering. I think it could be like in Warcraft III where the Undead started a cult in Lordaron by targeting people that were down on their luck.
I mean, if the letter can decieve anyone, then why not just use it on Natsuki and Shirizuru and such and problem solved.
I don't think the black letter is special in any way or form other than to deliver black crystals to agents already put in place.
It's like terrorists sending bomb triggers to enable members to detonate pre-planted explosives.
Spectrum
2006-01-27, 19:23
Hrm. I guess I'm the only one that thought Nina's robe looks pretty awful?
Ah well, to each his or her own.
Tempest35
2006-01-27, 19:34
It's just the animation style - let one of the great fanartists do their own rendition and it will look kickarse. ^_^
I'll wait for Doremi's version to come out over the weekend - I like those guys. :D
Anyway, Arika's REALLY good when it comes to actual Mai-Buttou (besides, she's had Nina to practice against nearly everyday she enrolled AND she had Nao, who became a Pillar as a 'study buddy' - her development in the fighting department must have been phenomenal. Probably the only reason Arika won't make it to Pillar status is because she already contracted to Mashiro. So yeah, Tomoe got PWNed :D :P
Too bad, I wanted to see the two-on-two battle between Shiho/Chie vs Nina/Arika too...;_; Stupid SLAVES!! Get your bio metallic hides handed to you by the glory of Meister Natsuki Kruger!! XD
Spectrum
2006-01-27, 20:17
Y'know, we still haven't seen Chie get to fight yet. Even Akane got a scene (and showed that she wasn't *that* impressive). I'm curious to see what Chie can do (and I guess Shiho too out of a sense of morbid curiousity).
Hrm. I guess I'm the only one that thought Nina's robe looks pretty awful?
Ah well, to each his or her own.
Nah, I think it looks pretty bad. Green just doesn't look good on her... and the dress doesn't really accentuate her features, or lack thereof. Still though, I bet fanartists can make it look spectacular -- I might give it a go myself. :)
Stupid SLAVES!! Get your bio metallic hides handed to you by the glory of Meister Natsuki Kruger!! XD
I cannot WAIT to see this. *_* As well as Chie fighting...
Tremalkinger
2006-01-27, 20:24
Some people have a very bizarre feeling of wanting to 'help' people who are essentially 'cruel' or 'losing control'. Or maybe Erstin knowing that it's over Shizuru..well perhaps she sees a confliction she can relate to or that she knows the ''reason'' for Tomoe's behaviour and that there could be a solution (which there isn't as Tomoe has lost it and you'd think Erstin would see it too)
Okay... I've sort of half assed floated this theory before, now I'll do it officially, with some actual thought. Please note, before I get it out completely, that I realize this is all based on the slimmest of evidence, and is in NO way conclusive. I'll probably get flamed like I did last time, but oh well. Here comes Erstin/Tomoe alliance theory, version 2.0
Erstin had the conversation with Arika back in episode 14 about Rena and Sergey. Right after this conversation, we cut to Tomoe seeing them talking, unable to hear them speaking, yet she does her evil smile. Now, I realize that Tomoe smiles all evil like at the drop of a hat... she's been doing an average of once per episode as of late. But she the smile had no context other than her seeing Erstin talking to Arika... and she almost certainly couldn't hear what they were saying. Why the evil smile? It doesn't make sense unless Tomoe knew what Erstin was telling her.
Then, this conversation directly and predictably lead to Arika running off to talk with Sergey. And Arika runs off, lead directly into an ambush that should have removed her from the school... an ambush set up by Tomoe. Coincidence? Plot hole? Or... are Erstin and Tomoe in cahoots?
The biggest question to be answered is why... and of secondary importance... when. The when is easier; whatever happened to make them work together would have had to happen after the first endurance test. I firmly believe that Erstin was being geniune that entire time. So something occured between then and now.
The why is more tricky. Erstin and Tomoe share one personality trait: unrequited love. It hasn't been emphisised as much lately with Erstin, but Erstin may simply be better at suppressing her feelings. In any event, Erstin may simply have the complex Diodati mentioned, which is something I've seen in real life too.
An important factor in this is that I believe that no matter how deeply Erstin and Tomoe may be plotting together, Erstin couldn't have knowingly lead Arika into the ambush. I don't think she's capable of that level of betrayal. Erstin's strange responses to her friends being assaulted may be the result of her being torn between her trying to help Tomoe and her wanting to defend her friends. If that's true, it looks like it paralyzed her into inaction... for this episode at least.
Is the theory foolproof? No.... but it's interesting to think about. Anyway... speculate (or flame) away.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-27, 20:29
Okay... I've sort of half assed floated this theory before, now I'll do it officially, with some actual thought. Please note, before I get it out completely, that I realize this is all based on the slimmest of evidence, and is in NO way conclusive. I'll probably get flamed like I did last time, but oh well. Here comes Erstin/Tomoe alliance theory, version 2.0
Erstin had the conversation with Arika back in episode 14 about Rena and Sergey. Right after this conversation, we cut to Tomoe seeing them talking, unable to hear them speaking, yet she does her evil smile. Now, I realize that Tomoe smiles all evil like at the drop of a hat... she's been doing an average of once per episode as of late. But she the smile had no context other than her seeing Erstin talking to Arika... and she almost certainly couldn't hear what they were saying. Why the evil smile? It doesn't make sense unless Tomoe knew what Erstin was telling her.
Then, this conversation directly and predictably lead to Arika running off to talk with Sergey. And Arika runs off, lead directly into an ambush that should have removed her from the school... an ambush set up by Tomoe. Coincidence? Plot hole? Or... are Erstin and Tomoe in cahoots?
The biggest question to be answered is why... and of secondary importance... when. The when is easier; whatever happened to make them work together would have had to happen after the first endurance test. I firmly believe that Erstin was being geniune that entire time. So something occured between then and now.
The why is more tricky. Erstin and Tomoe share one personality trait: unrequited love. It hasn't been emphisised as much lately with Erstin, but Erstin may simply be better at suppressing her feelings. In any event, Erstin may simply have the complex Diodati mentioned, which is something I've seen in real life too.
An important factor in this is that I believe that no matter how deeply Erstin and Tomoe may be plotting together, Erstin couldn't have knowingly lead Arika into the ambush. I don't think she's capable of that level of betrayal. Erstin's strange responses to her friends being assaulted may be the result of her being torn between her trying to help Tomoe and her wanting to defend her friends. If that's true, it looks like it paralyzed her into inaction... for this episode at least.
Is it foolproof? No.... but it's interesting to think about. Anyway... speculate (or flame) away.
I am bored so I will answer this:
Why would Erstin work together with Tomoe. Erstin isn't stupid, she can see that while Nina and Arika are great friends thier no romance there. So Erstin sent Arika to Sergay to seperate Nina and Sergay, that make sense if you believed Erstin is that manipulative but why help Tomoe? Whats in it for Erstin? What can Tomoe do for her that she can't do herself?
Tempest35
2006-01-27, 20:45
Okay... I've sort of half assed floated this theory before, now I'll do it officially, with some actual thought. Please note, before I get it out completely, that I realize this is all based on the slimmest of evidence, and is in NO way conclusive. I'll probably get flamed like I did last time, but oh well. Here comes Erstin/Tomoe alliance theory, version 2.0
Erstin had the conversation with Arika back in episode 14 about Rena and Sergey. Right after this conversation, we cut to Tomoe seeing them talking, unable to hear them speaking, yet she does her evil smile. Now, I realize that Tomoe smiles all evil like at the drop of a hat... she's been doing an average of once per episode as of late. But she the smile had no context other than her seeing Erstin talking to Arika... and she almost certainly couldn't hear what they were saying. Why the evil smile? It doesn't make sense unless Tomoe knew what Erstin was telling her.
Then, this conversation directly and predictably lead to Arika running off to talk with Sergey. And Arika runs off, lead directly into an ambush that should have removed her from the school... an ambush set up by Tomoe. Coincidence? Plot hole? Or... are Erstin and Tomoe in cahoots?
The biggest question to be answered is why... and of secondary importance... when. The when is easier; whatever happened to make them work together would have had to happen after the first endurance test. I firmly believe that Erstin was being geniune that entire time. So something occured between then and now.
The why is more tricky. Erstin and Tomoe share one personality trait: unrequited love. It hasn't been emphisised as much lately with Erstin, but Erstin may simply be better at suppressing her feelings. In any event, Erstin may simply have the complex Diodati mentioned, which is something I've seen in real life too.
An important factor in this is that I believe that no matter how deeply Erstin and Tomoe may be plotting together, Erstin couldn't have knowingly lead Arika into the ambush. I don't think she's capable of that level of betrayal. Erstin's strange responses to her friends being assaulted may be the result of her being torn between her trying to help Tomoe and her wanting to defend her friends. If that's true, it looks like it paralyzed her into inaction... for this episode at least.
Is the theory foolproof? No.... but it's interesting to think about. Anyway... speculate (or flame) away.
Once upon a time, I wouldn't believe this...then I heard Erstin's reaction to getting 'slimed' by Tomoe and while 90 % of me believes in Ers-chan, I can't overlook it completely y'know? Something is up between these two and it's only being hinted at most vaguely. It's kinda irritating...:heh:
Tomoe is not above sacrificing those she considers 'pawns' (which is probably everyone at this point) and if Erstin is having a 'change of heart' - oh well, her fault. In the case of love, even if it's stupid or illogical, people will do ANYTHING for what they desire, ne? Some go so far as to make deals with devils for it.
Although this I will say : Sergay might be a big wedge between Arika and Nina but Erstin's choices from here on in will be the final nails that will make or break the friendship between the two.
No, those letters are different than before. They're all black whereas the previous ones are white and black on the inside. I think they contain instructions and not necessarily a crystal.
I also don't think that crystals work on otomes-to-be. First because they're women, and second, because of the nanomachines. So far the only people we've seen calling up slaves are men........:eyebrow:
It's a black envelope inside a white envelope to remove suspicion when being delivered. How the heck did you come to that? Remember when that construction worker got a letter? It was a white envelope and enclosed in it was the black envelope so that only HE saw it.
We see a women recieving a black letter just like anyone else in this episode aside from the otome.I don't think the black letter is special in any way or form other than to deliver black crystals to agents already put in place.
It's like terrorists sending bomb triggers to enable members to detonate pre-planted explosives.
I completely agree that the appearance matters little. As I was not trying to focus on the appearance of the letters, I shouldn't have said what I did. Nevertheless, other than inference, we have nothing to go by that indicates that those letters contain crystals. And since the only agents so far have been men, we have nothing to go with indicating that they work on women too. Instead we have the OP with a whole lote of women storm troopers standing behind Tomoe. Those women might very well be the ones who received a black letter.
Now as to the otome, what need is there to give a Coral or Pearl a black letter when they can materialize? I'm sure there is a crooked Meister somewhere who would give that pearl or coral a kiss.
Okay... I've sort of half assed floated this theory before, now I'll do it officially, with some actual thought. Please note, before I get it out completely, that I realize this is all based on the slimmest of evidence, and is in NO way conclusive. I'll probably get flamed like I did last time, but oh well. Here comes Erstin/Tomoe alliance theory, version 2.0
Erstin had the conversation with Arika back in episode 14 about Rena and Sergey. Right after this conversation, we cut to Tomoe seeing them talking, unable to hear them speaking, yet she does her evil smile. Now, I realize that Tomoe smiles all evil like at the drop of a hat... she's been doing an average of once per episode as of late. But she the smile had no context other than her seeing Erstin talking to Arika... and she almost certainly couldn't hear what they were saying. Why the evil smile? It doesn't make sense unless Tomoe knew what Erstin was telling her.
Then, this conversation directly and predictably lead to Arika running off to talk with Sergey. And Arika runs off, lead directly into an ambush that should have removed her from the school... an ambush set up by Tomoe. Coincidence? Plot hole? Or... are Erstin and Tomoe in cahoots?
The biggest question to be answered is why... and of secondary importance... when. The when is easier; whatever happened to make them work together would have had to happen after the first endurance test. I firmly believe that Erstin was being geniune that entire time. So something occured between then and now.
The why is more tricky. Erstin and Tomoe share one personality trait: unrequited love. It hasn't been emphisised as much lately with Erstin, but Erstin may simply be better at suppressing her feelings. In any event, Erstin may simply have the complex Diodati mentioned, which is something I've seen in real life too.
An important factor in this is that I believe that no matter how deeply Erstin and Tomoe may be plotting together, Erstin couldn't have knowingly lead Arika into the ambush. I don't think she's capable of that level of betrayal. Erstin's strange responses to her friends being assaulted may be the result of her being torn between her trying to help Tomoe and her wanting to defend her friends. If that's true, it looks like it paralyzed her into inaction... for this episode at least.
Is the theory foolproof? No.... but it's interesting to think about. Anyway... speculate (or flame) away.
You're not the only one who has speculated it before. I've included a post from episode 14 that sort of mentioned the same thing.
Yet again, I stress the tone of her voice. I expect many of you didn't notice, caught up in reading the subs perhaps, but I was listening intently at this point, and regardless of language, you know a solemn tone when you hear one. This is what makes it such an ingenious line. Sure, Erstin could be simply apologising for giving Arika a chance to go find Sergei, which I would love to believe (since, then, Sunrise would be paying some attention to the feelings of Erstin for Nina), but I don't think she would adopt that tone. Who knows, I just don't think that tone was anything like the Erstin we know. Hmm, and those that didn't even get a hint, listen up next time you watch the episode, you don't get it if you just read the subs. "Sorry, Nina" isn't very useful without the tone it was said in.. no, wait, thought in.
Tremalkinger, I find it ironic that when you have all this evidence that Erstin is a good person and possibly feels indepted to Arika, that you can consider a chance event, or a certain smile, which could be falsely interpreted due to your own beliefs or your own schema, and throw away all that we know about Erstin - just so that you can make her a villain's accomplice.
In order for us to believe that theory you will need to come up with a motive. What motive is there for Erstin to cooperate with someone like Tomoe. And no, there is no evidence that Erstin is struck psychotic by a lovey-dovey thing.
On the other hand, you could be right, although I highly doubt it. But I must stress that your are basing your conclusion not on evidence but on inference. Your interpretation of the fact may be right, although I think it is clouded by your own schema. At this point in time it is futile to even go down the avenue of a guilty Erstin until we have more data to go by. And, yet, so many people seem to have done so already. Why is easier to believe in something bad than something good?
Right now Erstin is not depicted as the villain. In fact, she doesn't seem to have one mean bone in her body, but just wants the best for everyone. She might just be the person who believes that love cures people more than punishment. I mean, punishment doesn't usually change a person's nature, it just causes one not to get caught. I believe that Erstin thinks that there is still hope for Tomoe to come around, for Tomoe to realize that Arika is not after Shizura's heart or love.
Souten no Seigyoku
2006-01-27, 21:24
First off, I don't think Nagi will ever send his own Otome to battle, should he ever have one. It's not his style to put his own life at risk.
Yes, but what if (thanks to shwartz) he found a way around the "Otome dies/Master dies" thing? After all, its unlikely that the "otome dies/master dies dies" thing is a tech weakness. Rather, it was programmed into the otome tech to help keep the peace. As country leaders would think twice before starting wars if their own lives were at risk. It keeps "chicken hawks" in check. If we had that tech, certain morons (that will remain nameless) wouldnt start pointless wars.
I think John Smith's strategy is "First take over Wind Bloom (to get the Harmonium) then the world" type thing. That is, the only "real" initial target is Wind Bloom (and any Otome in the area). We might see some small scale Slave attacks on other countries, but that would just be to keep them pinned down - basically, to isolate Wind Bloom
I think smith is targetting garderobe. If he takes over Windbloom first and leaves Garderobe for later, he loses the element of suprise and the Otome's can prepare. Attacking the bigger threat first and overwhelming them before they can prepare is best. Once theyre out of the way, the windbloom army is toast.
agree, i think people tend to underestimate Shiho in MO becuase 1. she is comic relief and 2. she wasn't that powerful in MH. But you don't become the top 3 or 4 pearl in your class by dumb luck or maki maki. Shiho got real talent and definetly better then people gave her credit for.
Garderobe students get points for everything they do. Its possible shes a "nerd" and aces all her other classes including the Hike and PE. Add average fighting skills to that and you could score pretty high after its all averaged in.
Windbloom is attacked and, unless attacked itself, Garderobe stands bound by a treaty unable to intervene
I cant believe I didnt think of this earlier. They may try to kill Mashiro. Swartz has been trying for a while now... Which means Arika may have to step in and there's no way she can take on so many slaves. Not to mention theyre .v2. Then again, we see otome killing a mass # of slaves with a special move in both OPs so....
Yes this really a good opening ever since the beginning of anime, the song really matches the video and when you seeing it, really give you the feeling of the story itself. The opening seems really perfect as it doesn’t have any weakness in anyway to be seeing. The timing between the song and the image was perfect, and the song really suitable the image but there is a slight weak spot when there was image of the shooting star before there was scene when Rad hold Mikoto (Mashiro Cat). If possible if they remove the weak spot it surely becomes the most perfect opening in the history. To tell the truth this really reminds me of Gundam Seed when these three (Arika, Mashiro, and Nina) facing other side while they at some city ruins. The stories itself resemble Gundam Seed where they have to fight each other even they are friends. If any Gundam Seed Fan seeing this they would agree with me, you can also seeing the scene when Arika and Nina cross their weapon it is same as Gundam Seed before? By the way this opening really great, you can call it was a masterpiece since in the World of Anime. When I first hear the melody of the song I thought it was some old song but it really match the scene and after hear the whole song it really was perfect song for second opening. Each part the scene was splendid; really match the song and when you seeing it really give you the strong feeling about the whole story as the Otome textile really fit each character personality. I have seeing the opening for almost 2000 times hope I make a really correct expression about the opening. ^^
Tempest35
2006-01-27, 22:18
Tremalkinger, I find it ironic that when you have all this evidence that Erstin is a good person and possibly feels indepted to Arika, that you can consider a chance event, or a certain smile, which could be falsely interpreted due to your own beliefs or your own schema, and throw away all that we know about Erstin - just so that you can make her a villain's accomplice.
In order for us to believe that theory you will need to come up with a motive. What motive is there for Erstin to cooperate with someone like Tomoe. And no, there is no evidence that Erstin is struck psychotic by a lovey-dovey thing.
Right now Erstin is not depicted as the villain. In fact, she doesn't seem to have one mean bone in her body, but just wants the best for everyone. She might just be the person who believes that love cures people more than punishment. I mean, punishment doesn't usually change a person's nature, it just causes one not to get caught. I believe that Erstin thinks that there is still hope for Tomoe to come around, for Tomoe to realize that Arika is not after Shizura's heart or love.
I find it interesting that Ers-chan's such an 'untouchable' in terms of having 'questionable motives' or the like. :) Leaving no stone unturned is a part of speculation - and it's not like anyone's denying that Ers-chan's a good person but even good people can do bad things for a 'good reason'. I like the girl and all but as in HiME, nothing's ever cut n dry.
Even MH's Mashiro was a good person all around - it's just that she had that one secret that threw everything out of whack.
Shizuru as well, even Reito was perfect and upstanding until that one lil secret that they each had respectively came out then everything went to hell from there - literally.
Circumstantial evidence is beginning to pile up on the fact that Erstin is hiding something or other. It's not enough to incriminate her of anything bad or wrong or anything to do with Tomoe - not yet at least, but it is sending up warning flags for me. A good person won't take a burn for someone else and then not say anything about who might have dropped a vial full of acid on them. It makes no sense. If Erstin is indeed that forgiving - SHE should be the Pope. :heh:
The shadow didn't match her hair, though. There were two small spikes to the side. IMO, if it's a known character, it's most probably Irina, she's the only main coral who has small spikes on her hair.
Of course, it could be just a random coral, or those spikes somehow weren't part of her hair. Besides, anyone who receives the black letter dies soon, and we know that Tomoe won't be dying too early.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/NeonZ/BlackLetter.jpg
Awww, everyone forgot about Yayoi-chan....:sad:
And for those who REALLY forgot, look at episode 14, the girl that Miya was doing make-up for.
And her hair fits better than Irina's (personality-related possibility as well).
Spikes = Split Ends Of Bow Ribbons
Look at the back of a standard Coral uniform.
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4737/bscap01269fd.jpg
Spike = Split Ends Of Bow Ribbons
I know I know....I was just trying to defend Irina chan~
frodo1701
2006-01-28, 00:02
I was watching the episode 17 preview again when I noticed something very interesting. It looks like Natsuki may be able to remotely activate students GEMs using her own stone.:twitch: If you look starting at 23:52, You see her talking while holding her GEM. In the very next scene you can see Irina and Yayoi's GEMs glowing and Tomoe holding hers like it is getting warm. I think Natsuki is giving them all permission to materialise at once through her GEM. Has anyone else noticed this?
Xellos-_^
2006-01-28, 00:07
I was watching the episode 17 preview again when I noticed something very interesting. It looks like Natsuki may be able to remotely activate students GEMs using her own stone.:twitch: If you look starting at 23:52, You see her talking while holding her GEM. In the very next scene you can see Irina and Yayoi's GEMs glowing and Tomoe holding hers like it is getting warm. I think Natsuki is giving them all permission to materialise at once through her GEM. Has anyone else noticed this?
You are right. I didn't notice it till you pointed it out. So thats what the anntena is for. Receiving and boardcasting ;)
wombatlord
2006-01-28, 00:23
Yeah, that makes pretty good sense, Frodo.
hmm.. I didnt know that XD , and Yeah .,. good one , But I hope we can see some Natsuki (with her guns) in action :D
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-28, 00:37
I was watching the episode 17 preview again when I noticed something very interesting. It looks like Natsuki may be able to remotely activate students GEMs using her own stone.:twitch: If you look starting at 23:52, You see her talking while holding her GEM. In the very next scene you can see Irina and Yayoi's GEMs glowing and Tomoe holding hers like it is getting warm. I think Natsuki is giving them all permission to materialise at once through her GEM. Has anyone else noticed this?
COnsidering the fact that there's an armada of SLAVES rampaging through the city they need some sort of boost to help them escape.
So thats what the anntena is for. Receiving and boardcasting
She is the principal.
Souten no Seigyoku
2006-01-28, 00:48
Aha! So I was right! She does get good reception :heh:
Seriously now, that will be invaluable fighting off those slaves if they attack Galderobe. She can activate everyones robes. 50 Corals & 30 Pearls + meisters available + Windbloom army can give those slaves a run for their money.
I counted the # of slaves. They'e 62-63 of them
Meisters:
natuski, Maria, Yohko, the other teacher, Arika
Lets assume they can take out 2-3 each
Pearls:
Ranked 1-5 = Assume they can take out 1 each
Rank 6-20 = 2 pearls on 1slave w/1 roaming pearl. Thats 7 slaves
Rank 21-30 = Assume 3 on 1 + 1 roaming. Thats 3 slaves
Corals:
Rank 1-5 = provide support for pearls as needed.
Rank 6+ = Help evacuate citizens
Windbloom army- 1 slave (many deaths)
IF Aswald joins up with Galderobe (possibility) then add 10-12 dead slaves to the count.
Thats about 40 dead slaves at best estimates. Theyll give them a run for the $$, but will be overwhelmed. Unless Meisters have a special move as seen in the OPs that kill multiple slaves. In which case, an all out fight described above would work.
It would be foolish for Garderobe not to have an emergency robe unlocking method.
USCPharmacist
2006-01-28, 03:14
If they can control the agg and add ....sorry played too much Wow
Naw, the school and windbloom will be ownws, and the otomes will regroup at Aswad's hide out, watch the intro again XD (just kidding but the otomes seem to have moved to the desert.
BTW castle nuke need to hit a meister for great justice!!!
Anime Adoru
2006-01-28, 05:33
You are right. I didn't notice it till you pointed it out. So thats what the anntena is for. Receiving and boardcasting ;)Aha! So I was right! She does get good reception.
I only hope Natsuki is not with Sprint Wireless.
Souten no Seigyoku
2006-01-28, 05:50
Btw, what ever happened to the Florence king? Akane refused to be his otome so who was chosen in her place? Wouldnt it fall to Chie?
Btw, what ever happened to the Florence king? Akane refused to be his otome so who was chosen in her place? Wouldnt it fall to Chie?
Shiho is going to be the new Otome for Florence, while Chie will be Haruka's subordinate. Info from the summary for episode 16 at Random Curiosity :)
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/category/mai-otome/
I cant believe I didnt think of this earlier. They may try to kill Mashiro. Swartz has been trying for a while now... Which means Arika may have to step in and there's no way she can take on so many slaves. Not to mention theyre .v2. Then again, we see otome killing a mass # of slaves with a special move in both OPs so....
Although I agree with what you mentioned, I disagree with you on the last part, the above quote. Some time ago I posted a theory on this. The essence of it is this:
Since episode 7 there has not be another attack on Mashiro. That is about the time that Nagi started to work with Smith. In another words, Smith thinks now too that Mashiro is not the real queen (although she may be), and so why destroy a fake? In addition, Nagi has Smith looking for the real queen. In conclusion, Mashiro is no longer a threat to Smith.
Arika, however, is a different issue as he is about to find out...
Btw, what ever happened to the Florence king? Akane refused to be his otome so who was chosen in her place? Wouldnt it fall to Chie?
His Otome can't retire until a recplacement comes. That would most likely be my guess.
lone_wolf
2006-01-28, 06:54
His Otome can't retire until a recplacement comes. That would most likely be my guess.
To repeat what was already posted: " Shiho is the new Otome for Florence, while Chie is Haruka's new subordinate."
--Lone Wolf
Souten no Seigyoku
2006-01-28, 07:19
Thanks guys and thanks for the link Efreeta. This is where Im proud of myself. My japanese is improved enough that I nailed much of the stuff. Except for the Nao & Shiho part that is...
On that note, It seems like Fuma has a conciousness of sorts and has political awareness. It would explain why Chei is sent to Gen Haruka Amitage and Nao is chosen as pillar. I forgot who mentioned the "political awareness" possibility, but man were you right.
This makes things much easier.
Lackadaisical
2006-01-28, 09:22
Shiho isn't from Florence though I believe.
This would imply that Otome can be sent to foreign countries which is interesting. I wonder why Nagi lacks an Otome then? Is it just because he doesn't think he needs one or is waiting for an Artai Otome?
The shot of cat Mikoto beside robot Rado is the funniest scene in Mai Otome. The new opening is good although the show needs a new ending more. At the end of Mai Hime, when the show had gone dark, a lot of people noted that a new ending was needed even though the Mai Hime ending wasn't by nature happy. Given the enthusiastic style of the Mai Otome song, I can't help think it will be odd if an episode ends with a character death and then precedes to such a happy ending song.
Of course, I'm becoming sure that, in the fashion of Natsuki, Nina will die by green sparkles. Nagi will kill Sergay and Nina will kill Nagi, which will kill Nina.
Tempest35
2006-01-28, 10:33
It was a money issue from before. Artai's a poor country so they couldn't afford one until now. They had two in the running up until now - but just getting one Otome is enough.
And for some reason the pic of the 5 Pillars reminds me of the 'SuperFriends'...:eyebrow: :heh: Gaudy colors and all...
mintyfresh
2006-01-28, 11:03
The new opening is good although the show needs a new ending more. At the end of Mai Hime, when the show had gone dark, a lot of people noted that a new ending was needed even though the Mai Hime ending wasn't by nature happy. Given the enthusiastic style of the Mai Otome song, I can't help think it will be odd if an episode ends with a character death and then precedes to such a happy ending song.
Really? to be honest, i never though Hime needed a change of theme songs, even though I remember a lot of people believed it did. Kimi ga Sora Datta fit perfectly with the darker later chapters, and I didn't very much mind Shining Days since it was so catchy a song. :heh:
However, I agree that a new ED for Otome would be nice... But if we don't get one, I guess I won't mind. They do have that version of it that begins softer (that debuted in episode 12, I believe..?).. Plus, it's still fun to watch Arika's buuuuu~~n ^^;
Tremalkinger
2006-01-28, 11:16
Tremalkinger, I find it ironic that when you have all this evidence that Erstin is a good person and possibly feels indepted to Arika, that you can consider a chance event, or a certain smile, which could be falsely interpreted due to your own beliefs or your own schema, and throw away all that we know about Erstin - just so that you can make her a villain's accomplice.
I'm not throwing away anything. No matter what's happening, I do not believe that Erstin is doing anything she thinks would hurt Arika. This isn't about getting rid of Arika to have Nina to herself... that's way way out of character. She's trying to help Tomoe, by being friends with her and acting nice and helpful, and was unwittingly duped into sending Arika into the ambush. That doesn't seem out of character to me at all.
And no, there is no evidence that Erstin is struck psychotic by a lovey-dovey thing.
Nope, there isn't. Erstin, like most people that exhibit her level of selflessness, are extremely good at holding in their own pains and worries, but she's not psychotic either. However, it's undeniable that something is seriously wrong for her... her uncertain look when the three girls are discussing becoming Meister Otome seals that. Whether that's a simple case of self doubt, or bigger overall problems like what I've been speculating about is up for discussion.
In order for us to believe that theory you will need to come up with a motive. What motive is there for Erstin to cooperate with someone like Tomoe.
There's no motive for her to knowlingly cooperate in a plan to hurt Arika or Nina, but there's plenty of evidence for her to help Tomoe, simply because she's exteremly nice and kind... and because Tomoe is incredibly manipulative. Do you really think its beyond Tomoe to dupe Erstin into something?
EDIT: I'd like to think that if this theory is right, that episode 16 has opened her eyes and she'll stop helping and covering for Tomoe... but that wouldn't make for a plot. If the theory is right, then we'll probably see Tomoe convincing Erstin to do one more thing, which will probably be much more painful.
Of course, I'm becoming sure that, in the fashion of Natsuki, Nina will die by green sparkles. Nagi will kill Sergay and Nina will kill Nagi, which will kill Nina.
Does the Otome die if the person they contract to die? I'd think it'd be kinda silly if they did, say the king dies of a heart attack. So the guardian dies too? that could work vice versa too x.X
In MH it was stated that if the HiME died the child and person most important to them dies too. If the child dies only the most important person dies too, and if the most important person dies only the child is effected.
I don't read the manga but is there a place where the king/queen dies and the otome dies or is still alive? Rena could've been an example but she already lost her powers when the king of Windbloom died.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-28, 15:56
Does the Otome die if the person they contract to die? I'd think it'd be kinda silly if they did, say the king dies of a heart attack. So the guardian dies too? that could work vice versa too x.X
That's how it works, remember what happened in episode 6 where Arika fought that Slave? When she got hurt Mashiro got hurt in the same spot as well.
It's to ensure their loyalty to each other and the seriousness of the issue.
I don't read the manga but is there a place where the king/queen dies and the otome dies or is still alive? Rena could've been an example but she already lost her powers when the king of Windbloom died.
Uh Rena had a child prior to the incident...:eyebrow: How the heck did you come to that conclusion?
Souten no Seigyoku
2006-01-28, 16:03
It was a money issue from before. Artai's a poor country so they couldn't afford one until now. They had two in the running up until now - but just getting one Otome is enough.
That doesnt make much sense. Tuition is pretty expensive, but I dont think its so expensive that a country couldnt afford training an otome. Remember what Arika's friends told her in the cafeteria when she got the bill. Irinas tuition is paid by Ealis. Erstin's are paid by her parents. That is the main clue. While a parent can be well-to-do or rich, they cant possibly be richer than a country. So Garderobe's tuition is similar to a Ivy/top college's tuition. In othe words, too expensive for a student to pay her way via a McDonald-ish type job, but not so expensive, that well to do parents cant pay.
Also consider that Sergey is paying Arikas tuition. I assume its from his own salary. And who pays his salary? Artai. So they can afford otome. They just havent had one graduation yet. In one of the episodes they explained how Artai tried to boost its infantry and still couldnt take on 1 otome. Which is why they want one. Otome are the symbol of a country's strength. Without one, ather countries look down on you.
Or so it seems. Anyway, thats my opinion.
Edit: As I checked ep4 to get info on who was paying Irena & Erstins tuition, (timeframe 15:00) I ran into something Ironic. This Tomoe hatred wouldnt have happened IF she hadnt interuptted Miya-chans questioning of Arika. Miya was asking her "Then why was someone like you..." at which point Tomoe stopped her. If she hadnt stopped her, Arika may have mentioned her mom was an Otome and may have shown them the Souten no Seigyoku. Question answered. End of jealousy. So in effect, the true piece of incompetent garbage was Tomoe herself for unknowingly making the biggest blunder ever.
Qbi Sannin
2006-01-28, 18:20
During the scene where black envelopes were being handed out...the one where one is being received BY a red sleved coral. The shadow of the person shows that the person has hair that is...spiked out and downward or something. When I compared the corals' hairs...I came to the conclusion that the recipient could either be:
A: Irina
B: Erstin
I am 98% doubting that it is Tomoe because of the shape of her hair. ANYONE else wager a guess on who the spiked end hair coral could be?
During the scene where black envelopes were being handed out...the one where one is being received BY a red sleved coral. The shadow of the person shows that the person has hair that is...spiked out and downward or something. When I compared the corals' hairs...I came to the conclusion that the recipient could either be:
A: Irina
B: Erstin
I am 98% doubting that it is Tomoe because of the shape of her hair. ANYONE else wager a guess on who the spiked end hair coral could be?
I've suggested that before, but some people think that was just the bow's shadow, not the hair's (though I still don't agree, there's no way the bow's shadow could look like that).
Xellos-_^
2006-01-28, 19:21
I've suggested that before, but some people think that was just the bow's shadow, not the hair's (though I still don't agree, there's no way the bow's shadow could look like that).
I dismissed the idea last night but thinking about it I am not so sure anymore.
Whoever receive that letter has got to be someone we seen before 1. becuase it is too late to introduce more characters. They are introdcuing enough characters already. 2. Blackshadows like that usually mean someone we seen already while it might not be either irnia or erstin it will defintely be someone in the coral classs we seen before.
Qbi Sannin
2006-01-28, 19:43
It could be either one of their friends. I forgot the names of them. But other than Irina and Erstin...the shortest girl also has that spiked end hair.
USCPharmacist
2006-01-28, 20:03
Tomoe is garbage? Well she was called "junk" in another show so ....XD
As to why Shiho become Floren Otome, remember that Kasu jerk stole Akane from Floren? Well in order to prevent OMFG war, Katia (sp?) decided to give Shiho up to Floren as an apology. So basically Otomes train for their sponser normally, but can be traded like rice and spice in the foreign avisor screen (civilazation, anyone? XD). Shiho seems to like the deal though, it seems Floren gives her a pretty good salary, I guess. What a traitor!! Just wait till war breaks out and the Floren king order her to kill her own family.
BTW I can't wait till next week when the Zerg start killing everyone. And unfortunately for the Otomes, no one know how to psi storm....Well maybe Natuski can cast some blizzard, but I doubt Midori and her pet will let her channel for long... (I really need to quit Wow)
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-28, 20:18
I've suggested that before, but some people think that was just the bow's shadow, not the hair's (though I still don't agree, there's no way the bow's shadow could look like that).
Apparently you've never seen shadows before have you?
Also the fact that the the shadow is that of the right side of the Otome. Even if it was the hair it can't be Irina or Erstin or Tomoe.
1 - Erstin doesn't exactly have spikey hair
2 - Irina's hair is shorter and doesn't cover her shoulder, plus, her hair curves more
3 - Tomoe doesn't have spikey hair
THis is worse than that time when everyone thought that Erstin was in league with Tomoe. I'm not saying the shadow isn't Tomoe but the shadow is just ambigious. Anyone can tell that the shadow is that of the complete right side of the Otome and none of the girls' hairs go that far across.
Considering how the shadow has a clear bell outline below the "hair" thats either one hell of a mutant otome or gee, I dunno, a DRESS!
It can be any coral otome. Its obvious that something is not quite right with Erostin, but I would say this is taking it too far. Irina just makes no damn sense and none of the other known corals are really prominent enough to matter. My guess its another red herring and it will be someone unknown.
PS: one last time, because I am still confused. What exactly are Shwartz and Aswald and which is the one seemingly working with Nagi?
During the scene where black envelopes were being handed out...the one where one is being received BY a red sleved coral. The shadow of the person shows that the person has hair that is...spiked out and downward or something. When I compared the corals' hairs...I came to the conclusion that the recipient could either be:
A: Irina
B: Erstin
I am 98% doubting that it is Tomoe because of the shape of her hair. ANYONE else wager a guess on who the spiked end hair coral could be?
May I suggest:
C:Yayoi
Everyone forgets that cutie.:sad:
Souten no Seigyoku
2006-01-28, 20:51
Tomoe is garbage? Well she was called "junk" in another show so ....XD
BTW I can't wait till next week when the Zerg start killing everyone. And unfortunately for the Otomes, no one know how to psi storm....Well maybe Natuski can cast some blizzard, but I doubt Midori and her pet will let her channel for long... (I really need to quit Wow)
Well Tomoe was calling Miya useless garbage, but it looks to me as if its the other way around because if she hadnt interupted Miya back then, Arika wouldve told them everything and there wouldnt be any jealousy. Well she finally figured out it was because of the gem and still went after her so Im probably wrong.
So far several otome have demonstrated weapons similar to MH. Nao's spidery strings for instance. So maybe Natsuki has a gun-like weapon that can shoot down multiple targets. Or they can have special moves that kill a ton of slaves at once as seen in both OPs.
Edit: Shwartz (Shibaratsu) is the group working with Nagi. Aswald is Midoris group
Qbi Sannin
2006-01-28, 20:56
Looking back at the episode scenes...it could be a distorted view of the robe frills... then again I can't tell for sure. Ff You look at 2:29 where it shows the shadow...it's abit hard to make whether it's the frills or the person's hair.
Also, to whoever mentioned Irina doesn't have spiked. Look at scene 5:00-5:10 where it shows Irina and Erstin side BY side. You can see Erstin's hair is spiked downward abit. And Irina has that spike thing going down as well...cept hers is higher. I tried getting a screen cap from the episode but for some reason whenever I tried to save it...it becomes a a black screen
Souten no Seigyoku
2006-01-29, 00:33
Doremi's is up. Yay! Better late than never.
No kanji in karaoke for this week.
At least it's still within the "Saturday PST" time frame.
Pretty good episode overall, better than the cry-fest of episode 15.
Episode 17, shit's going down.
That's how it works, remember what happened in episode 6 where Arika fought that Slave? When she got hurt Mashiro got hurt in the same spot as well.
It's to ensure their loyalty to each other and the seriousness of the issue.
Uh Rena had a child prior to the incident...:eyebrow: How the heck did you come to that conclusion?
We've never seen Mashiro get hurt physically and see Arika feel it? Only Arika get hurt phsyically and Mashiro feels it.
I said Rena COULD'VE been an example but she already lost her powers. Her king was killed yet she was still alive at the time, she hid the baby. The king was already dead then (probably). Their contract was already nullified but it's the closest case to a Otome being alive and their contractor.
Asianknight82
2006-01-29, 01:49
It would seem that only when an otome goes into battle mode is when the feeling of pain is transfered from otome to master. Cause you see Arika gets hurt all the time normally and it has no effect on mashiro at all. Just a theory, which is probably true :P
ChaosWing
2006-01-29, 02:21
For everyone argueing about the "shadow" and who it might be let me ask you all of one thing: Where is her shoulder if that's the shadow of her hair?
If that's someone's hair then they are the scrawniest person alive. It's the bow on the right side of the uniform.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-29, 02:44
We've never seen Mashiro get hurt physically and see Arika feel it? Only Arika get hurt phsyically and Mashiro feels it.
So what? Are you arguing it works only one way?:eyebrow: What are you basing it on?
I said Rena COULD'VE been an example but she already lost her powers. Her king was killed yet she was still alive at the time, she hid the baby. The king was already dead then (probably). Their contract was already nullified but it's the closest case to a Otome being alive and their contractor.
Except it wasn't. She was no longer an otome so to even bring that up is pointless really.
It would seem that only when an otome goes into battle mode is when the feeling of pain is transfered from otome to master. Cause you see Arika gets hurt all the time normally and it has no effect on mashiro at all. Just a theory, which is probably true :P
Sorry it's false. Exactly after the contract, has Arika actually been like...bashed to pieces or anything of that matter? Same with Mashiro, neither had actually entered into full fledge combat. Otherwise the writers skip it by not showing Arika in combat for those times until actually needed for us.
If you wish to keep arguing go watch episode 4 and see what Natsuki tells Arika to be aware of when she becomes an Otome. If you have a problem with that take it to the writers.
If Mashiro gets hurt, Arika gets hurt, if Arika gets hurt, Mashiro gets hurt. Simple as that....why do kids like to make things so complicated for them these days?:eyebrow:
These things can be so easily explained by actually watching the show....
Also, to whoever mentioned Irina doesn't have spiked. Look at scene 5:00-5:10 where it shows Irina and Erstin side BY side. You can see Erstin's hair is spiked downward abit. And Irina has that spike thing going down as well...cept hers is higher. I tried getting a screen cap from the episode but for some reason whenever I tried to save it...it becomes a a black screen
Except her hair doesn't go OVER her shoulder like the shadow is doing. People are really just overanalyzing it like they did with Erstin. It could be Irinia but the shadow is basically ambigious to have anything based on it.
Just the new OP made ep16 totally rocked already! Finally I forsee excitement for the future!
I too suspect irina is the one who got the letter. Just a hunch.
Damn why must they always ends as a cliffhanger?
Fishbait
2006-01-29, 06:45
New poster here !! Injecting a fresh breath of voice and tone into the forums...well not really. :)
Before watching the SUB, the only spoiler I caught for this episode was that Nao was to be made a Pillar. Other than that, I knew nothing and I'm glad I didn't !!
1. The new OP, Woahhh. Love the materalising followed by the HUGE army of Slaves...singly the most awesome scene I've seen in a long time :)
2. Tomoe is HAWT in her dark robe :cool:
3. About the Coral receiving the black letter. If you watch carefully, you will see her hand SHAKING while holding the letter. Now personally, I dont see Tomoe shaking if she ever got the letter, so it's extremely likely someone else. Very possible it's Eristin. Though I dont really got a good reason it's her.
4. From the Preview, we see Midori and gang walking up the steps. Then we see ShizNat. Their surroundings look the same, so it looks like two of the Pillars are gonna be too busy to fight the slave army?
5. Someone mentioned all those Slaves would require an entire population worth of controllers...that's probably not true :uhoh: :twitch: These are probably some new type or something...
6. I wonder what Mikoto the Cat was reacting to in the last frame of the Episode.
7. Tomoe looked sad when she was in the room looking at Eristin !?
EDIT: anyone have a good Screencap of the scene where Arika flies up to meet Nina in the Opening? We see quite a few Meisters on the ground in that scene, including their teacher-former-MH-Nun
monstert
2006-01-29, 07:09
This episode definitely brought back my interest in the series. Nice OP, too bad the ED is still the same, and I can't wait until Mai shows up. and the last pic.... Doesn't it reminds you of: naruto and sasuke, or kira and shinn If they are heading into an Arika vs Nina scenario, I hope it'll be better handled than Kira vs Shinn or Naruto vs Sasuke.
Qbi Sannin
2006-01-29, 07:54
Sorry it's false. Exactly after the contract, has Arika actually been like...bashed to pieces or anything of that matter?
That episode where Arika pretended to be Mashiro and Mashiro pretended to be Nina. Arika got a PRETTY good beating from Nina REPEATEDLY, remember? I think the writers could squeeze in some FUNNY moments where Mashiro would be reacting while talking to Takumi EVERYTIME Arika gets "reminded" BY Nina. IF it was a -both sides getting hurt if one gets hurt- kinda thing.
And like I said...it could be either the robe frills or someone's hair. The reason I have doubts it could be the robe is because the robe frills are curved. If it was the shadow of the robe...the shadow would be less POINTY. It cant be a bow because there are no bows on the upper portion of the robe. The bow/ribbons are down on the waist side...Unless! Hmm..now that I stare at it... the shadow could be of someone's waist. It might be the person's lower portion instead of the upper portion I had ORINGINALLY assumed. That would explain the deformed...image.
It's kind of odd how Erstin knows the song. I'd say she learned it from Arika, but they definitely say that each of them know the song, implying that they knew it before meeting each other. I think the otome that received the letter was Ers-chan and not Tomoe. Tomoe would be the obvious choice, but too obvious if you know what I mean.
My other whacky theory...If you look at the lyrics, first verse is sung by Arika, but I think originally was sung by the queen, and second verse sung by Nina, and originally the Otome. The third verse is where it gets kind of weird. It talks about how the singer doesn't want to be born to become a star etc. I think Mashiro is some weird star creation or something. Arika is the princess. Nina is Rena's daughter, and Mashiro something to do with the star.
Edit: How this ties in with the Harmonium, the protector, the organ player, and the singer, I have no clue.
During the scene where black envelopes were being handed out...the one where one is being received BY a red sleved coral. The shadow of the person shows that the person has hair that is...spiked out and downward or something. When I compared the corals' hairs...I came to the conclusion that the recipient could either be:
A: Irina
B: Erstin
I am 98% doubting that it is Tomoe because of the shape of her hair. ANYONE else wager a guess on who the spiked end hair coral could be?
Here is the best pic I could capture of that scene:
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6338/blackletter4200601291324061sq.jpg
I think that the letter influences that person instantly... So anyone who acts normally in this ep is out of the game... (So that's why I don't think it's Erstin... It could be Tomoe though but my favourite is Lilie) They sent the letter in order to change top of Mashiro castle..
It is obvious that the shadow isn't from hair...
Also did Nao know what will happen (slaves invasion) ahead of time? She did use this sentence before (ep4 I think?) when she was talking to Nina about Arika while sneaking out from campus...
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/2395/nao200601291432051sb.th.jpg (http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nao200601291432051sb.jpg) http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7140/naoep4200601291441050zn.th.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=naoep4200601291441050zn.jpg)
I think Mashiro is some weird star creation or something. Arika is the princess. Nina is Rena's daughter, and Mashiro something to do with the star.
If one of the 3 needed for the Harmonium is a star/artificial creation, it MUST be Arika.
Miyu seeing Arika with golden hair is good enough of an indication.
Also did Nao know what will happen (slaves invasion) ahead of time? She did use this sentence before (ep4 I think?) when she was talking to Nina about Arika while sneaking out from campus...
Huh? I really dont see how this has ANY connection with the slave invasion....she was mentioning how Arika might get kicked out of Garderobe soon.
Except for the fact that the old woman stated that Rena put "souten no seiyu" around the princess when she got her away from the attack...
Except for the fact that the old woman stated that Rena put "souten no seiyu" around the princess when she got her away from the attack...
Except that we do not know if that is the truth or not.
Good point though, but it makes absolutely no sense for an artificial creation to be either Nina nor Mashiro, since only Arika has shown such signs.
Robes
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4192/robes5fl.th.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=robes5fl.jpg)
I think that blonde one is Erstin
Takemi_Ikazuchi
2006-01-29, 10:51
No, that's based on another Sunrise character
Vega the 2nd a.k.a Sarah Gallager, to be precise.
Souten no Seigyoku
2006-01-29, 10:54
Kiggo
We've never seen Mashiro get hurt physically and see Arika feel it? Only Arika get hurt phsyically and Mashiro feels it.
We've only seen Arika get hit. If Mashiro gets hit, Arika will feel it. Its not a one way deal.
Im sure there's a legal way around the "master dies the otome dies" thing. Such as the master dying of natural cuases. Otherwise no one would want to serve an old master.
It would seem that only when an otome goes into battle mode is when the feeling of pain is transfered from otome to master. Cause you see Arika gets hurt all the time normally and it has no effect on mashiro at all. Just a theory, which is probably true
I was wondering about that too. She spars in school all the time. She's gotta get hit sometime. Unless shes improved so much that she hasnt gotten hit. I figure it's because its the Pillars that give her permission to use her robe. But then wouldnt the Pillars feel the pain? Hmm...
Ok, I've checked the Otome with a black letter again...
(Old picture)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/NeonZ/BlackLetter.jpg
That part with the little red circle has to be the hair. Looking at my second shot, the shoulder is clearly lower than that.
EDIT: Hum... looking at it again... Ok, that might be just the leg, not the arm, in that case, that's really the bow...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/NeonZ/BlackLetter2.png
Now, in this second shot, I compared the skin color of the unknown hand with the known girls. It matches Tomoe's and Erstin's skin. Is there any other coral with a similar skin color?
Considering that the hair doesn't match Tomoe's(EDIT: If that's the arm), because of the spikes, that Otome has to be Erstin, unless I've forgotten another Otome with similar skin...
EDIT: Of course, if that's the leg, then Tomoe might still be that Otome...
Is there any other coral with a similar skin color?
There are plenty of girls with the same skin color.... You can check it here (http://fuuka-gakuen.net/hoshi_gumi.html) ;)
Also I don't think it's hair shadow since it is situated way too down... Look where the end of skirt is... And based upon how down the sun is and how long shadows are I don't think so...
Here you can see the length of shadows... http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/3337/blacklettershadow2006012917455.jpg
and here you can see where the weist of hers is which means it has to be just ribbon
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/6973/blackletterweistsnapshot25ap.jpg
the same waist ribbon as you can see here ~_^
http://www.my-zhime.net/character/img/img_p_erstin.gif
There are plenty of girls with the same skin color.... You can check it here
The quality of the images is too different, it's hard to compare. Either way, I was talking only about featured characters, not random background girls. I doubt they'll introduce yet another coral at this point of the series.
Using that page as a reference, there seems to be 6 background girls with that skin tone, but no real character, besides Erstin and Tomoe, has it.
You have a good point about the length of the leg shadows...
EDIT: Ok, you're most likely correct. In that case, the Otome must be Tomoe, Erstin or a random background girl(based only on skin color)... The most likely possibility is Tomoe... though I think there's still a small chance that Erstin is the Otome:
-Erstin has received too much attention during these last few episodes, but isn't in the new opening.
-If every black letter only carries those one-time crystals, then it can't be Tomoe, because we know she'll live for a while, but it might be Erstin...
Of course, if the opposite is true, and there are letters without crystals, then Tomoe is the one who received the letter, because we know she'll join them.
-Tomoe betraying Garderobe and attacking Arika yet again wouldn't be much of a change, or plot twist...
If it wasn't for the final cliffhanger, I would have voted just one star for this episode. Did we need yet another Tomoe failed plot? We got that she is not too fond of Arika like a dozen episodes ago, after all. She needs to either be caught or actually achieve something rather than just waste times. I really wonder how the hell Chie guessed out of the blue that Tomoe was the one who bossed around Miya and yet no one bothered to suspect her after the acid incident in this episode? Speaking of that, of course, Tomoe had to pose with that "mad evil character (tm)" smile instead of throwing the acid or whatever it was before Erstin could intervene. I believe that's rule 35 of the guidebook of how to write boring villains...:uhoh: :frustrated: And is it only me or Arika, Erstin and Nina behave more like a bunch of ten-year old rather than fifteen year old?
Smith somehow managed to build a huge weapon instead of a new castle, talk about bad security. But at least he is donig something rather than boring the viewers to death, al lcredit to him. :heh:
As for the opening - seemed to me like a bad rip-off of the Gundam openings which I have never liked. And the music wasn't great either.
If one of the 3 needed for the Harmonium is a star/artificial creation, it MUST be Arika.
Miyu seeing Arika with golden hair is good enough of an indication.
Just re-watching some episodes and I'd say it's close to a forgone conclusion that Arika is the princess. In fact, Miyu is probably a good indicator. In episode 8 that you're talking about I think the golden hair just signifies someone that Miyu is supposed to protect. Hardly anything from mai otome is similar to mai hime. The clue in this episode is when Mashiro is talking down to Arika and Miyu says that she won't tolerate Mashiro treating her this way. I'm betting Miyu is like a royal guard type or something and has been looking out for Arika all this time. Combine that with what the old lady says and that in my opinion, Arika looks nothing like Rena and in fact I'd say Nina and Rena look more alike. So if, like I think, Arika is the princess and Nina is Rena's daughter, this still leaves Mashiro the odd girl out.
Just re-watching some episodes and I'd say it's close to a forgone conclusion that Arika is the princess. In fact, Miyu is probably a good indicator. In episode 8 that you're talking about I think the golden hair just signifies someone that Miyu is supposed to protect.
A better conclusion is that, Arika, who is(assumingly) the princess, has the powers of the blue star as well, and that the golden hair is the indication of the blue-star relation.
Hardly anything from mai otome is similar to mai hime.
Story-line wise(ie. direct sequel possibilities), yes.
But other than that, need I say more? Reused character designs, reused first-names(Natsuki, Shizuru, Midori etc). And THATS not similar?
How about the Meister suits designs being based on the MH child counterparts?
I'm betting Miyu is like a royal guard type or something and has been looking out for Arika all this time.
Right....and Miyu had the (almost) exact same type of relationship with Alyssa. Plus, Alyssa was an artificial Hime.
Need I mention that Miyu in MO is somewhat of an android/cyborg as well?
Arika looks nothing like Rena and in fact I'd say Nina and Rena look more alike.
What? I guess your viewing perspective must differ alot from the general MO fans...
Arika looks ALOT MORE similar in looks(duh) to Rena than Nina, period. Hell, even some members mentioned that she was being animated more and more like Rena in recent episodes.
Seriously, are you looking clearly?:eyebrow: Nina's eyes, facial expression are all completely different from Rena's, whereas Arika's eyes, facial expression fits much better.
USCPharmacist
2006-01-29, 12:47
If it wasn't for the final cliffhanger, I would have voted just one star for this episode. Did we need yet another Tomoe failed plot? We got that she is not too fond of Arika like a dozen episodes ago, after all. She needs to either be caught or actually achieve something rather than just waste times. I really wonder how the hell Chie guessed out of the blue that Tomoe was the one who bossed around Miya and yet no one bothered to suspect her after the acid incident in this episode? Speaking of that, of course, Tomoe had to pose with that "mad evil character (tm)" smile instead of throwing the acid or whatever it was before Erstin could intervene. I believe that's rule 35 of the guidebook of how to write boring villains...:uhoh: :frustrated: And is it only me or Arika, Erstin and Nina behave more like a bunch of ten-year old rather than fifteen year old?
Smith somehow managed to build a huge weapon instead of a new castle, talk about bad security. But at least he is donig something rather than boring the viewers to death, al lcredit to him. :heh:
As for the opening - seemed to me like a bad rip-off of the Gundam openings which I have never liked. And the music wasn't great either.
Ay, boring villain ftw man, how can you have a superhero show with out laughing villain, it's just against all laws of anime hehehe
I think Tomoe has lost it, she doesn't even care about plotting anymore, she is like, fuck it, I hate this bitch Arika and I am just gonna positively kill her. She probably think there is no way for her to get shizuru, and after the match she just found out how insignificant she was. I mean after the match, nobody talk to her or console her, everyone rush to Arika and Nina. Its show that dispite her pretense, Tomoe was not like by anyone. It's ironic that she is the one promoting yuriness, yet she has no friend (well Miya might've been her only friend but Tomoe treated her like garbage).
The scene where Erns was lying in bed looking at Tomoe, then Tomoe looked away sadly indicate that Tomoe thought it's all over for her, it's only a matter of time before the school act. That's why she was piss sitting in the back watch the butou, because none of this stuff matter to her. I think Chie knew who did it and was very sad. I think once the ceremony is over she'll take action against Tomoe. I think she the reason she hid it from the school was because she didn't want to bother the principal during such busy time, that would ruin the graduation. Although she never forseen the slaves attacking the school either. I meant it's like expecting someone to attack the pentagon.
....
Your avatar makes my eyes bleed. Oh, and you assume to much.
I must watch this episode fansubbed.. I downloaded it but cannot summon the patience to do any one thing for 30 minutes right now.
Your avatar makes my eyes bleed.
I suppose thats a good thing.
Oh, and you assume to much.
I'm not sure if I should feel insulted or not, since you yourself are/were guilty of this as well.:uhoh:
Example: Erstin betraying Arika in episode 14.
I think Chie knew who did it and was very sad. I think once the ceremony is over she'll take action against Tomoe. I think she the reason she hid it from the school was because she didn't want to bother the principal during such busy time, that would ruin the graduation.
I'd like to hear her excuse if in the meantime Tomoe had managed to kill Arika or someone else. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to keep quiet in order not to ruin the graduation.
Ay, boring villain ftw man, how can you have a superhero show with out laughing villain, it's just against all laws of anime hehehe
But she is not laughing, just smiling, that's why I am complaining. :heh: Really, the Tomoe character is quickly turning into such a cliche that it rivals even Arika's and that is hard!
MattAlchemy
2006-01-29, 13:08
I finally watched episode16. I was scared of the black letter part! Especially when the song fits with many people receiving the letter.
I remember you guys talking about it. And I said to myself"... Irina? Or Yayoi? Could that be Erstin?"
Let's see who's been acting strange lately. Erstin a little, but it's about Tomoe.
Hey how come Erstin can't tell Arika the secret about Tomoe? Arika interrupted 2 times and Erstin should've stopped her talking and told the secret. I feel sad for Arika and Erstin's suffering about this episode and so on now.
What's funny is that Tomoe is keeping her secrets a bit more outsiding, just like when she dropped Miya's um... Nanomachines or something? Yeah anyway, she was right on top, at least wear a mask. Even Erstin saw, Natsuki can see from above the building or something. I wonder how she didn't stop even if she didn't see Erstin running towards Arika. But I feel more sorry for Erstin of what happened there.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-29, 13:42
I feel more sorry for Nina in this Ep then any other character. She finally opens up and made friends and now what. She is going to Nagi's otome and will set against her friends. Her entire world in the next few eps will be turn upside down.
PastPrime
2006-01-29, 14:26
Just the new OP made ep16 totally rocked already! Finally I forsee excitement for the future!
I too suspect irina is the one who got the letter. Just a hunch.
Damn why must they always ends as a cliffhanger?
Don't forget that, while there will obviously be fighting, the Op could be a lot of red herrings. Like Mai's scarff in the Mai HiME Op, or all the great fight scenes in the Bleach op that never happened in the story.
PastPrime
2006-01-29, 14:41
It's kind of odd how Erstin knows the song. I'd say she learned it from Arika, but they definitely say that each of them know the song, implying that they knew it before meeting each other. I think the otome that received the letter was Ers-chan and not Tomoe. Tomoe would be the obvious choice, but too obvious if you know what I mean.
My other whacky theory...If you look at the lyrics, first verse is sung by Arika, but I think originally was sung by the queen, and second verse sung by Nina, and originally the Otome. The third verse is where it gets kind of weird. It talks about how the singer doesn't want to be born to become a star etc. I think Mashiro is some weird star creation or something. Arika is the princess. Nina is Rena's daughter, and Mashiro something to do with the star.
Edit: How this ties in with the Harmonium, the protector, the organ player, and the singer, I have no clue.
Erstin told Arika that she learned it when Arika sang it to her while taking care of her during the hike.
Arika's and Nina's song sounds like Alyssa's from MH.. Sorry if it's a late realization. ^^; I best most of you were already aware.
So next episode, it's safe to assume that Arika will be battling the Slave army like what OP2 foreshadowed? The Slaves that Rena was fighting when she changed into Arika were the same, so I'm assuming that under the circumstances being in the middle of Coral/Pearl Graduation Battle Ceremony (evacuating civilians, Queen, etc.) we get the surprise of Arika's tranformation?
OP2 is making me run around in circles, though. xD It shows Arika being pledged by Mashiro in a graduation Otome outfit, so she there must have been an early graduation for her and Nina (since Nina seems to have been granted Otome powers as well). But then, Arika battling the Slaves that appeared during the Coral/Pearl battle happened before she and Nina were in a face-off. Those Slaves came back? Or Arika and Nina had an early graduation on the spot at the Coral/Pearl battle.. xD
Ahh Sunrise answered questions by adding more questions once again. x_x;;
Mysticmidnightmaiden
2006-01-29, 16:15
Well, well, well... Another weekend, another episode...
Unfortunately, this episode almost had me gagging. Let's take a look, hmm?
THE GOOD:
- NINA's got a Meister robe! :) (w00t for her!)
- Nao's a Pillar! :) (W00t that! Double w00t!)
- The dramatic (Nagi's) BIG PLOT (TM) that left us hanging from Episode 10 or so is finally starting!
- Chie-onee-sama! :D (She needs more air time...)
- Tenetious Tomoe (a la Dasterdly Dan) tries to kick out/kill Arinko! ;) (Triple w00t!)
- Kick-ass OP scenes! :D :D
- Keeping the ED! :D (I feel like I'm the only one who likes the happy-go-lucky ED song... well, not Arinko's ass-shaking... :heh: )
THE BAD:
- Nina's got a Meister robe... WTF? I like Nina and all, but isn't it a BIT early to show us (the fans) not only her robe, but her freakin' Materialize sequence...
- Tenetious Tomoe shows no real reason in the offing of Arika. Well, except the whole "Crazy Lesbian" plot pillow, but Kannazuki no Miko and Mai-Hime do a better job in fleshing that out. Also, it's getting pretty old... (The "MUST KILL ARIKA!!!11!!" attitude Tomoe's developed, I mean)
- The OP scenes. This just screams "FANSERVICE". The song is pretty catchy (on the third-fourth sampling, unfortunately), but the scenes are all spoilers (OK, not Arika's Meister robe or Sergey, but mostly everything else...) and it definately has a Gundam SEEDish presentation style. I won't be surprised if the DVD (with these episodes+) includes an Uncut OP in the likes of the Gundam SEED Destiny Final Plus OP... (Hopes for her prediction to be false) A Naked Nina, Arika, Erstin, and Sergey is NOT something I want to EVER see. Period.
- Erstin's "OK, someone just missed killing my friend" reaction.
Either:
She's really gunning for a Meister position and she doesn't care (or believes that the Trias will take care of it)
She's allied with Tomoe (Highly probable, considering that Tomoe's public face is "The Gentile, Benovolent, and Pure Coral #2")
She's AN IDIOT (0.1% chance)
She didn't see Tomoe in the episode. Ever. (0.0000001% chance)
THE UGLY:
- Nao's robe. WTF were they thinking... no, SMOKING?! :upset: Sure, it's a hommage to Julia, her child, but still, WTF?! (I think I just don't like picturing Nao as Spider[wo]man in yellow and green...) Maybe her Element will be kick-ass enough to restore the balance? (Prays for Nao to get her steel-string-slinging Nails back)
- Nina's robe. :mad: Were they trying to play off her Chinese counterpart in Mai-Hime? It's not shockingly U-G-L-Y, but I was expecting more from Sunrise. Now that I think about it, Nina own a Chinese-style dress, and wears it out of school (common clothes), I think...
- Tomoe's evil grin. :rolleyes: Even though her plan failed, I expect similar X___X plots from the Tanaka voiced psycho in future episodes.
For future reference, folks, the Coral who recieved the Black Letter cannot be deturmined as of present. The "spikes" in the shadow can only be a sidebow from the Coral's uniform. I went outside (GASP!) to test my theory and I was right. Although it it sunset, one can estimate the length and shape of the Coral's shadow by comparing the legs of the shadow to her legs. Depending on the time of day, shadows look longer or shorter than the object's actual size. At sunset, the Corals leg shadows look longer than the Coral's height, thus everything in the shadow look longer than their actual size. Thus, the Coral's sidebow is the "spike" shadow. The "spikes" cannot be hair because the shadow would be disproportionate to the Coral. Unless there is a miget Coral with long legs and no torso attending Gaurderobe, the specific Coral cannot be deturmined as of late.
(I thought this was already covered, though...)
I think it's safe to guess, however, that Tomoe recieved the Black Letter, but this theory is based soley on the (spoiling) image of Tomoe with the numerous (female?) Slaves in the new OP. (Note that I'm not basing my theory off the "spike" shadows, as there is no concrete [or slight, for that matter] proof to oppose or base anyone's random guesses off of)
PastPrime
2006-01-29, 16:53
THE BAD:
- Tenetious Tomoe shows no real reason in the offing of Arika. Well, except the whole "Crazy Lesbian" plot pillow, but Kannazuki no Miko and Mai-Hime do a better job in fleshing that out. Also, it's getting pretty old... (The "MUST KILL ARIKA!!!11!!" attitude Tomoe's developed, I mean)
I suspect that Tomoe's hatred of Arika has very little to do with Shizuru. I think she had Arika pegged as Rena's daughter from the start. I think it is likely that her Father was killed in the Raid and she blames Rena and her daughter. The statement that Sergey made to Arika to make her hate him was a statement of what Tomoe really thinks.
Asianknight82
2006-01-29, 17:08
Seriously, have any of you watched the subbed version of the episode? Erstin is not evil, why insist on her being evil? She overheard Chie talking to Tomoe telling her to that she knows Miya was being used and that Tomoe has been trying to hurt Arika, and learned that Tomoe was the one responsible for the attacks on Arika, and have been more aware of Tomoe. And when she remembered about the acidic agent in the lab, and Tomoe heading there, she knew right away that Tomoe is planning on hurting Arika again, thats why she was about to save Arika. And as to why she didnt say anything, its because Erstin is a nice girl, shes not a rat out to hurt someone.
And I think its obvous that Tomoe was the one with the black letter, I dont think its letters with crystals in it. Its a letter to let everyone whos with Schwartz know that they are about to initiate the attack on Windbloom.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-29, 17:34
I suspect that Tomoe's hatred of Arika has very little to do with Shizuru. I think she had Arika pegged as Rena's daughter from the start. I think it is likely that her Father was killed in the Raid and she blames Rena and her daughter. The statement that Sergey made to Arika to make her hate him was a statement of what Tomoe really thinks.
Ah no, she didn't even know about the Gem until Ep14. And since Arika didn't know who her mother was how would Tomoe know? Otomes retire to get is not uncommon. Arika's mother for all Tomoe knows could have been anyone. Only those whose the Blue Gema nd recognize it for it is suspect who Arika's mother is.
Fishbait
2006-01-29, 18:06
Well, I mentioned earlier that the letter holder's hand was clearly shaking. Given how mad Tomoe has become, it's a bit unlikely she'd be shaking....unless it's from excitement :p Which I doubt.
PastPrime
2006-01-29, 18:11
Ah no, she didn't even know about the Gem until Ep14. And since Arika didn't know who her mother was how would Tomoe know? Otomes retire to get is not uncommon. Arika's mother for all Tomoe knows could have been anyone. Only those whose the Blue Gema nd recognize it for it is suspect who Arika's mother is.
And, is there any proof that she didn't know about the gem until episode 14.
Even without knowing about the gem, she would know what Rena looked like. A girl shows up who looks like Rena, is the same age as Rena's daughter, doesn't know about her mother except that she was an Otome, and is allowed to transfer into the school, something that has never happened before. I am quite sure that Tomoe would be able to connect the dots even if the average student wasn't. After all, how likely is it that a normal Otome's daughter wouldn't know anything about her mother. That, in itself, points to unusual circumstances. It will be interesting to see her reaction to Meister Arika.
shikamarufoo
2006-01-29, 18:14
Just watched this episode and have a couple of things to say:
I'm glad they added a new OP, but most of the scenes seem to be spoilers. Mai appearing in the OP was a suprise to me and I hope we get to see her soon.
I like the way Nina and Arika's friendship is progressing and also how Nagi's plan is (going to be) put into action.
Nao is going to be one of the five pillars, and anything good about Nao is a plus.
I believe Ers-chan is a good friend and has no intentions of hurting Arika and/or Nina chan, but I can't understand how come she couldn't tell them about Tomoe. I like how they all know the song though.
Mashiro acting like a real queen is also a plus.
I think Midori and the people she's leading is going to be on the good side soon...
Just some thoughts on this episode:) .
Xellos-_^
2006-01-29, 18:36
And, is there any proof that she didn't know about the gem until episode 14.
Even without knowing about the gem, she would know what Rena looked like. A girl shows up who looks like Rena, is the same age as Rena's daughter, doesn't know about her mother except that she was an Otome, and is allowed to transfer into the school, something that has never happened before. I am quite sure that Tomoe would be able to connect the dots even if the average student wasn't. After all, how likely is it that a normal Otome's daughter wouldn't know anything about her mother. That, in itself, points to unusual circumstances. It will be interesting to see her reaction to Meister Arika.
Because we saw in Ep15 her reaction to Arika's gem. Also how does Tomoe know how Rena looks like? How did Tomoe make such a connection when no one in the entire castle made that connection. And what do you mean by Arika looking like Rena? We as viewer thinks Arika looks like Rena becuase that is how she is presented to us. But in the story itself how do we know Arika resemble's Rena in other people eyes? As for connecting dots, Tomoe is smarter then your avg coral but for her connect the dots she would have to know what dots to connect in the first place.
PastPrime
2006-01-29, 18:38
On the Black Letter that the Coral Otome received, I doubt that it would contain one of those crystals. Even a Coral Otome would be worth too much to waste that way. I can think of three possibilities.
1. It tells her to sabatoge something when the attack sterts.
2. It gives her instructions on where to go to be picked up. Her nanomachines would definitely be woth studying.
3. It contains a Meister gem and instructions on how to swap them. Perhaps made using the information in that memory circuit so that no permission is needed to materialize.
PastPrime
2006-01-29, 18:47
Because we saw in Ep15 her reaction to Arika's gem. Also how does Tomoe know how Rena looks like? How did Tomoe make such a connection when no one in the entire castle made that connection. And what do you mean by Arika looking like Rena? We as viewer thinks Arika looks like Rena becuase that is how she is presented to us. But in the story itself how do we know Arika resemble's Rena in other people eyes? As for connecting dots, Tomoe is smarter then your avg coral but for her connect the dots she would have to know what dots to connect in the first place.
There is no point in arguing this. We will find out eventually. As for Her knowing what Rena looked like, I beleive that there are likely at leat one or two pictures around. And, if she blamed Rena for her father's death I am sure that she would have memoriized them. After all, she probably thinks that Rena is still alive. At least I don't remember anyone in the anime saying that she was dead.
There is no point in arguing this. We will find out eventually. As for Her knowing what Rena looked like, I beleive that there are likely at leat one or two pictures around. And, if she blamed Rena for her father's death I am sure that she would have memoriized them. After all, she probably thinks that Rena is still alive. At least I don't remember anyone in the anime saying that she was dead.
I'd rather she did hate Arika for the reasons you've given, but hmmm, there hasn't been any indication that Tomoe has even lost a loved one - let alone connecting it up that it is Rena's fault, and that Arika is Rena's daughter.
Also the recent development of her now targetting Natsuki (apparently) seems to suggest Sunrise aren't being privy with her reasons. If she's willing to change targets, then the reason may stay the same - so it seems like it will be 'just' Shizuru...which doesn't work so well because we've only had one scene of them even conversing. Nice going Sunrise.
But like I said, it's more preferable to give Tomoe a much better reason than she's got - sure love makes people do 'crazy' things, but it's being over-used in the show.
BigPrime
2006-01-29, 19:59
On the Black Letter that the Coral Otome received, I doubt that it would contain one of those crystals. Even a Coral Otome would be worth too much to waste that way. I can think of three possibilities.
1. It tells her to sabatoge something when the attack sterts.
2. It gives her instructions on where to go to be picked up. Her nanomachines would definitely be woth studying.
3. It contains a Meister gem and instructions on how to swap them. Perhaps made using the information in that memory circuit so that no permission is needed to materialize.
I think the first two options are stronger than the third, though one never knows. We know not all Black Letters contain summon Gems (the one Smith sent to Nagi just had hm meet with him at the Rorschach for a chat), they merely give a mission and tell the reciever to carry it out to the best of his/her ability. With the possible exception of the cook who tested out the new Slave, it's possible that none of them were specifically told to use them at all, just given them and allowed to use them at their discretion (and with that kind of power, who wouldn't try even if failure means death?).
Anyhow, very good episode. I think it's just bad luck for Nina & Arika to participate in a butoh at that arena. Bad things always happen. And poor Mashiro, her wonderful dream castle turned into a Death Star...the girl just doesn't get a break with that castle, does she?
Lonelyfighte
2006-01-29, 20:18
I'm surprised that someone hasn't made a comment on Nina's wepons. Ya know, the twin sai's? Don't think it'll mean anything, just thought I'd point it out (you can see them at the end of the OP right before the end, when she attacks Arika). I kinda liked her robes too, but might just be because I like green. :heh: Really, I love Nao's robes, just because even in the worst of situations I'll look at her and laugh. :heh:
I'm glad they got rid of the old OP, but they could have made the new one less spoilerific. I enjoy it, but really... >_< Now...on to hoping they at least add some different pictures to the Ending, other then Arika running :p
All together, I thought this episode was good, even if it did end too soon. Did other people notice that sad/guilty look that Tomoe gave Ers-chan, when they were all gathered around her bed (after Tomoe had tried to kill Arika)? I'm probably wrong about what kind of emotion she was displaying >_<. Feel free to correct me, or tell me if someone else has said this already. >_<
~Lonelyfighte
Because we saw in Ep15 her reaction to Arika's gem. Also how does Tomoe know how Rena looks like? How did Tomoe make such a connection when no one in the entire castle made that connection. And what do you mean by Arika looking like Rena? We as viewer thinks Arika looks like Rena becuase that is how she is presented to us. But in the story itself how do we know Arika resemble's Rena in other people eyes? As for connecting dots, Tomoe is smarter then your avg coral but for her connect the dots she would have to know what dots to connect in the first place.
I'l have to agree with Xellos on this.
We have seen 0 signs of Tomoe losing her love ones, 0 signs of her thinking that Arika looks like Rena, 0 signs of other reasons to hurt Arika besides Shizuru and probably the pendent.
On-topic:
Finally watched the episode. really liked how they set up the jolly mood in the beginning, and then throw it away with the slave attack.
For the OP, they could have done what the Karin OP did: Leave the spoilers in blank, and only reveal them when they are shown in the show.
But theres too many to cover though...:heh:
PastPrime
2006-01-29, 21:11
Also the recent development of her now targetting Natsuki (apparently) seems to suggest Sunrise aren't being privy with her reasons. If she's willing to change targets, then the reason may stay the same - so it seems like it will be 'just' Shizuru...which doesn't work so well because we've only had one scene of them even conversing. Nice going Sunrise.
As I said, those were my thoughts. There is no proof as of yet anyways. As for changing targets In Episode 17 I think that Natsuki will pull a reverse Miyu and put the meister gems back in Arika's earring and Mashiro's ring, basically confirming Arika as a Meister Otome. Since, unlike Nina, Tomoe knows nothing of Arika's contract with Mashiro, I suspect that will be too much for her.
PastPrime
2006-01-29, 21:18
I'm glad they got rid of the old OP, but they could have made the new one less spoilerific.
~Lonelyfighte
There is the possibility that it was mostly red herrings, with just enough real spoilers in it to keep people guessing. Like Mai's "Red Scarf of Justice" that didn't show up until after she was no longer a HiME.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-29, 21:18
On the Black Letter that the Coral Otome received, I doubt that it would contain one of those crystals. Even a Coral Otome would be worth too much to waste that way. I can think of three possibilities.
1. It tells her to sabatoge something when the attack sterts.
2. It gives her instructions on where to go to be picked up. Her nanomachines would definitely be woth studying.
3. It contains a Meister gem and instructions on how to swap them. Perhaps made using the information in that memory circuit so that no permission is needed to materialize.
Option 1 is the only one that makes sense. The Otome system has been around for 300 yrs, by now anyone who wanted to probably got samples of thier nano. And I don't see option 3 being option unless whoever they sending that gem to is really skill otherwise theres no point in tipping off the fact that they can make thier otome gems.
PastPrime
2006-01-29, 21:51
I really wanted to see Nina and Arika battle Chei and Shiho. Given their abilities I really think that there was the possibility of an upset. The compitition to determine the Coral representatives was useful too. Since Arika won she would become a Pearl even if she wasn't in the top 25 overall. No having to come up with an excuse to take the top 29 or 30 this time. I think that Natsuki assumed that the representatives would be Nina and Arika before the compitition started.
As I said, those were my thoughts. There is no proof as of yet anyways. As for changing targets In Episode 17 I think that Natsuki will pull a reverse Miyu and put the meister gems back in Arika's earring and Mashiro's ring, basically confirming Arika as a Meister Otome. Since, unlike Nina, Tomoe knows nothing of Arika's contract with Mashiro, I suspect that will be too much for her.
Except..Except that Arika has the gems, and not Natsuki. We haven't been given any indication that anyone knew the gems were in the pendant, or that anyone knew where they were all these years either.
That reminds me, the spoilers did say that Nina and Arika's battle will be interrupted. And here, they didn't even start fighting and it was "interrupted." :uhoh:
Sinestra
2006-01-29, 22:32
I just finished it and damn i must say i loved this ep. First let me say that the new opening is great and mai looks like a total bad ass. however i will say that some of it definetly contained spoilers. if i had to guess it looks like no matter how close Nina and Arika get they are destined to become enemies. Also it looks like some loyalties might be split if you look at one part of the opening some Otome are on one side while othes are not. I like Nina battle green battle garb it suits her really well. I also noticed a completly diffrent look in Arika during the new opening that happy go lucky look is gone replaced by a die hard battle ready warrior. How about Nao being choosen as a piller (Hell Yeah). I really only have 2 compliaments and thats we didnt even get to see a little bit of fighting during the graduation before it was interrupted. Second did it really have to be a gaint lazer on top of the castle i mean damn all i could think to my self was oh great another gaint gun that has be taken out. I did feel sorry for the mashiro though shes finally acting like a queen and this happens id be uber pissed if that was castle. Over kick ass ep i hope it keeps up and i have found a new respect for Ers after what she did for Arika.
NOW IF THEY WOULD JUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT GOD AWFUL ENDING ID BE HAPPY
MattAlchemy
2006-01-30, 00:07
I just finished it and damn i must say i loved this ep. First let me say that the new opening is great and mai looks like a total bad ass. however i will say that some of it definetly contained spoilers. if i had to guess it looks like no matter how close Nina and Arika get they are destined to become enemies. Also it looks like some loyalties might be split if you look at one part of the opening some Otome are on one side while othes are not. I like Nina battle green battle garb it suits her really well. I also noticed a completly diffrent look in Arika during the new opening that happy go lucky look is gone replaced by a die hard battle ready warrior. How about Nao being choosen as a piller (Hell Yeah). I really only have 2 compliaments and thats we didnt even get to see a little bit of fighting during the graduation before it was interrupted. Second did it really have to be a gaint lazer on top of the castle i mean damn all i could think to my self was oh great another gaint gun that has be taken out. I did feel sorry for the mashiro though shes finally acting like a queen and this happens id be uber pissed if that was castle. Over kick ass ep i hope it keeps up and i have found a new respect for Ers after what she did for Arika.
NOW IF THEY WOULD JUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT GOD AWFUL ENDING ID BE HAPPY
Yes, seeing Arika walking forward seems very funny... Why didn't they change it on Episode16 anyway? They liked to see Arika's back?
The current ED is kind of fine, even though it might be too cheerfulish for the soon to come drama. The thing I'm afraid of from seeing the new OP is that the 2nd ED might be a horizontal or vertical scroller set in a wartorn or space background with still images of the characters looking at each other or from each other and the last set being Arika holding her hand out to Mashiro or Sergay or Rena's.
Not much to add from what other people probably repeated hundred times within these 300+ posts. But I love the 'spoilers' in the new OP. Gives alot to look forward to and the fact that Midori isn't bad after. (If she was, it would've destory her character, tho I doubt we will see the same cheerfulness of her Hime counterpart)
The thing I'm afraid of from seeing the new OP is that the 2nd ED might be a horizontal or vertical scroller set in a wartorn or space background with still images of the characters looking at each other or from each other and the last set being Arika holding her hand out to Mashiro or Sergay or Rena's.
LOL. Oh the ideas for parodies just keep rolling in...
But yeah, if they do implement a new ED I'd like it to be something similar to MH's, which fit fine throughout the whole series IMO. 「乙女はＤＯＭＹＢＥＳＴでしょ？」 sounds extremely out of place, especially after a cliffhanger like this one.
First, EXCELLENT EPISODE, let the mayhem begin as Windbloom now aparrently while rather unwillingly is in possesion of a massdestruction weapon. Even if Shwarz doesn't succeed with their attack, I had like to see Mashiro trying to explain that.
Nina's and Natsuki's robes= RAWR, althou I wish Natsuki's could have been a tad more different than Shizuru's. I don't know who the other two pillars in the preview are but -someone- shoot SpiderNao's robe designer... -_-
So who do you guys suppose the Garderobe Shirabatsu is? Is it obviously Tomoe or someone else?
OH COME ON NATSUKI, IS ONE LITTLE HUG FOR SHIZURU SO MUCH TO ASK OF YOU????? RAAAHR! X(
Sorry, but if you kill a man or approve of killing one (even if it is a soldier) where you don't have to than you are evil. No excuses. If Midori is supposed to be not bad than they already destroyed her character.
Destroyed her character? If you ask me, an order to kill Arika is the best thing any character can do in this series but I guess most people would disagree.
Evil and good are concepts which should not get in the way of character development, the best character are neither fully good nor totally evil. I'd rather watch a series about a war in which there are "unnecessary" killings than one in which everyone is noble and kills only after a fair battle giving him and his opponent equal chances because the latter scenario would be very unrealistic. Why should we assume that the Otomes are good and Aswald and Shwartz are bad? I really hope it will turn out to be more complex than that and every faction will do its fair share of unpleasant things.
PastPrime
2006-01-30, 09:56
Except..Except that Arika has the gems, and not Natsuki. We haven't been given any indication that anyone knew the gems were in the pendant, or that anyone knew where they were all these years either.
I doubt very seriously if Natsuki thinks that Arika and Mishiro made a contract with the Coral Gems. She recognized the pendant, and, as head of Gunderobe, should know what it contains. And, it is likely that the sensors in Gunderobe recorded everything that happened under the castle.
If you ask me, an order to kill Arika is the best thing any character can do in this series but I guess most people would disagree.
As would I. I doubt you hate her as much as I did but at least I recognise the fact that her presence and life are not only important, but critical to the integrity of the series. Many, many characters are dependant on a friendship with her, not least of all Nina, a character who's well being is of significant interest to me and the liking of this series.
Yes, Arika is a very dangerous character, but compared to what would happen if she was removed completely, her life suddenly seems all the more valuable. If you just look at what she has done for Nina since the start of this series as an example, Arika is pretty much a perfect friend. That's if you have some problem that needs remedying, but not if that problem is lack of tolerance for others, of course.
Without her positive influence on the more politically minded pessimists (and in Nina's case also a severe dependence on one individual), and the previously poor and selfish leaders (*cough*Mashiro*cough*) they would simply divert back to their previous selves, in what would be a very destructive manner.
And, plus, you kill Arika, you kill the storyline, at this point anyway. Nina also, and now, possibly, Erstin, which leads me onto another point.
So! Erstin knows a part of the song as well!? Well, perhaps Erstin is much more a character than the big breasted piece of fanservice that seemed to have fallen for Nina (and Arika), as she seemed to be labelled by many earlier in the series. As I always thought, as did a few others, that she had a much larger part to play that a simple 'bit of fun' and first fatality. I never liked people calling her fanservice anway..
But, more importantly, what does this mean for the series? Perhaps Mashiro is an all round fake, I mean, with the two new characters, Arika and Nina being the main ones, a returning character didnt fit the pattern. No matter how many revisions she had seen since the last series.
If Erstin is this third and all important member of the organ-thing (forget the name) group, then this could lead a lot of people (ie. Nagi/Sergei) off on the wrong path to discover the key to using the harmonium (remembered the name.. I think..).
All things considered, this was an excellent episode. Oh, and people, of course the damned OP is going to be full of spoilers, what the hell did you think they were going to make it out of, previous footage? :rolleyes: If you didn't like the prospect of spoilers, you should have skipped it or closed your eyes of something. Besides, its not like there way anything that a good bit of logical thinking and viewing in the spoiler thread couldn't figure out anyway.
And, as I said yesterday in an MSN convo, the actual things we see as spoilers are unimportant, since we do not know why they are happening, when, in what order, what the emotions in the scene are like and the causes and outcomes of these events. When you see them in the episode it happens, you may as well being seeing it for the first time for all the good it will do you.
Great episode. Great OP.
And, plus, you kill Arika, you kill the storyline, at this point anyway
It would be worth it, the storyline is nothing special anyway and it can be developed even without Arika, not to mention that her death would make the series really famous - it's not as if main characters often die in the middle of a series. :) And we could have a much better storyline if it is not burdened by characters who are as stereotypical as you can possibly get. Of course, I know fully well that no one is going to kill Arika so this discussion is quite pointless.
PastPrime
2006-01-30, 10:17
Erstin knows a part of the song as well!? Well, perhaps Erstin is much more a character than the big breasted piece of fanservice that seemed to have fallen for Nina (and Arika), as she seemed to be labelled by many earlier in the series. As I always thought, as did a few others, that she had a much larger part to play that a simple 'bit of fun' and first fatality. I never liked people calling her fanservice anway..
But, more importantly, what does this mean for the series? Perhaps Mashiro is an all round fake, I mean, with the two new characters, Arika and Nina being the main ones, a returning character didnt fit the pattern. No matter how many revisions she had seen since the last series.
If Erstin is this third and all important member of the organ-thing (forget the name) group, then this could lead a lot of people (ie. Nagi/Sergei) off on the wrong path to discover the key to using the harmonium (remembered the name.. I think..).
[/B]
When Arika and Mashiro found the Harmonium two of the three circles on front lite up. That would seem to indicate that they are two of the three required.
Erstin said herself that she learned the song from Arika.
Mashiro has sang a third verse to the song, meaning that Arika, Nina, and Mashiro each learned a seperate verse to the song.
because the latter scenario would be very unrealistic.
I do believe such an issue with "realism" has been addressed in another thread regarding realism in anime. Plus, MO being set in another world, stuff that is "unrealistic" to our world may not necessarily be so in theirs.
Some would say that person deserved to die. But who has the right to take another's life? This could easily turn into an argument over human rights, please let us not push it that way.
Yes, and in the eyes of the killer, the person he or she is killing deserves to die.
Ok, I'll stop right there.
So! Erstin knows a part of the song as well!? Well, perhaps Erstin is much more a character than the big breasted piece of fanservice that seemed to have fallen for Nina (and Arika), as she seemed to be labelled by many earlier in the series. As I always thought, as did a few others, that she had a much larger part to play that a simple 'bit of fun' and first fatality. I never liked people calling her fanservice anway..
But, more importantly, what does this mean for the series? Perhaps Mashiro is an all round fake, I mean, with the two new characters, Arika and Nina being the main ones, a returning character didnt fit the pattern. No matter how many revisions she had seen since the last series.
If Erstin is this third and all important member of the organ-thing (forget the name) group, then this could lead a lot of people (ie. Nagi/Sergei) off on the wrong path to discover the key to using the harmonium (remembered the name.. I think..).
If you noticed, Erstin only knows (and sang during episode 16) the part that Arika knows, as explained by her that she learned it from Arika during the field trip episode.
The part she knew was NOT the missing part to make up the entire song, the part which is known by Mashiro.
Oh, and people, of course the damned OP is going to be full of spoilers, what the hell did you think they were going to make it out of, previous footage?:rolleyes: If you didn't like the prospect of spoilers, you should have skipped it or closed your eyes of something. Besides, its not like there way anything that a good bit of logical thinking and viewing in the spoiler thread couldn't figure out anyway.
Well, the funny thing is, before the new OP came out, people were hoping that they dont do the same thing that happened in GSD: Reused animation for the OP.
Now that EVERYTHING (well, almost) in the OP animation was "original" (in a sense, not previously used animation), they say its too spoilerish.
Its hard to please human beings.:heh:
It would be worth it, the storyline is nothing special anyway and it can be developed even without Arika
While I agree it can still develop without Arika, what example of a storyline would you consider "special"?
And I didnt know a good anime requires a special storyline.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-30, 10:41
I doubt very seriously if Natsuki thinks that Arika and Mishiro made a contract with the Coral Gems. She recognized the pendant, and, as head of Gunderobe, should know what it contains. And, it is likely that the sensors in Gunderobe recorded everything that happened under the castle.
Watch the beginnng of Ep8 again. Natsuki and Shizuru knew Arika and Mashiro made a contract.
PastPrime
2006-01-30, 10:55
Watch the beginnng of Ep8 again. Natsuki and Shizuru knew Arika and Mashiro made a contract.
Why do I need to watch episode 8 again? Try reading my post. Where did I say they didn't know about the contract? I believe that I said that they would not think that it was made with the coral gems. Meaning that they know about the Meister gems in the Pendant. That, as far as I can tell, is NOT saying that they didn't know about the contract. Evidently Nina knew that the gems were there too since she asked about the gem accepting Arika when Sergey told her that it was likely that Arika and Mashiro had made a contract.
Yes, and in the eyes of the killer, the person he or she is killing deserves to die.
That's not where I was comming from. I was more leaning towards, you kill a person, you should therefore be killed. Not that that doesn't have MANY MANY flaws, I know.
Well, the funny thing is, before the new OP came out, people were hoping that they dont do the same thing that happened in GSD: Reused animation for the OP.
Now that EVERYTHING (well, almost) in the OP animation was "original" (in a sense, not previously used animation), they say its too spoilerish.
Its hard to please human beings. :heh:
Agreed. And just to make it clear, I never complained or requested anything of the new OP except it being better than the current (old) one.
Yeah, in regards to Erstin, I knew/got all that, except a line from Erstin went something like 'we know different parts of the song'.. guess it was the fansub at fault. Forget it.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-30, 12:33
Why do I need to watch episode 8 again? Try reading my post. Where did I say they didn't know about the contract? I believe that I said that they would not think that it was made with the coral gems. Meaning that they know about the Meister gems in the Pendant. That, as far as I can tell, is NOT saying that they didn't know about the contract. Evidently Nina knew that the gems were there too since she asked about the gem accepting Arika when Sergey told her that it was likely that Arika and Mashiro had made a contract.
sorry, read when i woke up. Not enough sugar and caffine in the system :heh:
One thing i notice about the opening is that a lot of people have complaint about it as spoilerish. But how spoilerish is it really? Mai coming back is given, Tomoe turing evil is a given and Arika dn Nina having a fight is something we specualted on quite a bit and shouldn't be a suprise to anyone.
Now could the opening itself be a red herring, giving little spoiler bits to misdirect the fans from where the story is really headed :eyebrow:
We see Arika being Mashiro's otome in the op but in the end Mashiro might still end up either living in the black valley or married to Takumi and Arika as Queen of WindBloom and Nina as her Otome. Ep11 might be a preview how the series will actually end.
Tempest35
2006-01-30, 17:11
Well for me it was 'spoilerish' because they showcased all the Pillars and their ROBES right off the bat. XD OH well, what I want is not relevant - just gimme more Otome and keep it coming I'll be happy anyway.
I do wonder...if all the other countries' Otome were present in the OP...does that mean that Natsuki is going to spear-head an invasion of Windbloom/Garderobe with help from the other countries as well as from Aswald? It could explain the abundant supply of SlaveChilds that Mai destroys with her Expanded Element attack - which was just uberness. Weird, but uber. ;) And that Nina seems almost separate from the Otome herd as she comes in at Arika.
ladholyman
2006-01-30, 20:41
And finally something starts to happen. Don't screw it up Sunrise, you've got 10 eps left.
If I had a way of grabbing a screen cap from a video, I'd do it to prove my point. But, since I don't, I'll just give timecode.
As far as whether the pointy shadow is bow or hair, the shadow IS the bow. Before the image everyone was showing earlier, you can actually see the shadow rising up to show the actual legs in the same shot. Timecode of 2:28 on Doremi's sub. Starts like 1 or 2 seconds before the screen cap shown in the thread earlier. I read thru all the pages and didn't see anyone bring that up, but doesn't mean I didn't miss it. There are ALOT of posts in there.
Sageblink
2006-01-31, 11:05
Sorry if i repeat someone else opinion, but as we already know that Tomoe is "evil"...
... can the Coral who receive the black letter be someone else?
Like... a supposed Good one?
Obsidian penguin
2006-01-31, 11:11
Sorry if i repeat someone else opinion, but as we already know that Tomoe is "evil"...
... can the Coral who receive the black letter be someone else?
Like... a supposed Good one?
Elstin ?
Could it explain why she didn't denounce Tomoe ?
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-31, 11:18
Elstin ?
Could it explain why she didn't denounce Tomoe ?
Actually she was going to warn about them the moment she learned about it then but then decided against it. Probably didn't want them to lose spirit or something (I dunno it doesn't make sense to me but she WAS going to tell them)
Not to mention Erstin put herself on the line to save Arika.
Sageblink
2006-01-31, 11:19
Elstin ?
Could it explain why she didn't denounce Tomoe ?
That's too Obvious...
And she didn't denounce Tomoe cause she didn't find the time to tell to Arika and Nina, who were all focus on the training.
Irina, maybe?
Actually, it seems that Natsuki is going to activate all the Coral Robe in the next episode. We'll have to wait till a student summons her slave.
(Then again, Tomoe got some slaves behind her in the opening... But i still don't think the black letter was for her. She already has some reasons to leave the academy.)
PastPrime
2006-01-31, 12:43
That's too Obvious...
And she didn't denounce Tomoe cause she didn't find the time to tell to Arika and Nina, who were all focus on the training.
Irina, maybe?
Actually, it seems that Natsuki is going to activate all the Coral Robe in the next episode. We'll have to wait till a student summons her slave.
(Then again, Tomoe got some slaves behind her in the opening... But i still don't think the black letter was for her. She already has some reasons to leave the academy.)
We don't know that the letter contained a crystal. It could have been instructions on what to do when the attack started.
ArchDragon
2006-01-31, 13:07
We don't know that the letter contained a crystal. It could have been instructions on what to do when the attack started.
That's what I thought too, not every member of Schwarts are expendable afterall.
Like the guy controlling the cannon, anyone who can secretly alter a castle's design without getting caught is an extremely valuable asset.
But then, I wonder why Sergay didn't receive one, since technically speaking, he's also part of the plan.
Maybe Nagi wanted to get rid of him too... or he knows that Sergay can take care of himself just fine even without specific instruction.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-31, 13:16
That's what I thought too, not every member of Schwarts are expendable afterall.
Like the guy controlling the cannon, anyone who can secretly alter a castle's design without getting caught is an extremely valuable asset.
But then, I wonder why Sergay didn't receive one, since technically speaking, he's also part of the plan.
Maybe Nagi wanted to get rid of him too... or he knows that Sergay can take care of himself just fine even without specific instruction.
Because Sergay is not part of SCHWARZ.
He works for Nagi who is collaborating with Schwarz and he already received instructions from him which was to find the real princess. Remember the letter? When Smith was informing Nagi about his end of the deal Nagi replied that he already instructed Sergay to carry them out. He knew about the plan, probably just didn't realize that Nagi was doing it this soon. When the cannon was firing Sergay was the only one who reacted it to.
If you don't understand then watch episode 14 again. According to Nagi, Sergay knew everything about the plan.
ArchDragon
2006-01-31, 13:35
Because Sergay is not part of SCHWARZ.
Neither was Nagi when he received a black letter to ask for his cooperation.
He works for Nagi who is collaborating with Schwarz and he already received instructions from him which was to find the real princess. Remember the letter? When Smith was informing Nagi about his end of the deal Nagi replied that he already instructed Sergay to carry them out. He knew about the plan, probably just didn't realize that Nagi was doing it this soon. When the cannon was firing Sergay was the only one who reacted it to.
I know that part too, but don't you think they should at least notify him on how to get out of harm's way?
Since the attack occured earlier that he thought, he might not have escape plans ready.
If you don't understand then watch episode 14 again.
No thanks, I do.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-01-31, 13:46
I know that part too, but don't you think they should at least notify him on how to get out of harm's way?
Since the attack occured earlier that he thought, he might not have escape plans ready.
Sergay wasn't notified because Nagi doesn't trust him. And seriously, if Nagi HAD told him, would he keep his mouth shut? Sergay already disobeyed orders once by refusing to seduce Arika, so what stops him from warning people in Windbloom?
It is obvious from very early on in the series that Sergay and Nagi don't work well together. Both are quite prepared to betray the other just as soon as the timing is right... And both knows they are keeping secrets from the other.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-31, 13:49
Neither was Nagi when he received a black letter to ask for his cooperation.
Sorry I should be more precise here, Sergay is NOT working for Schwarz nor is there any need anyways to send him a letter because he already knows the plan and is under Nagi who is the cooperator. As well as instructing him.
Why send a letter to your ally's right-hand man when he's already being instructed by him?
I know that part too, but don't you think they should at least notify him on how to get out of harm's way?
Since the attack occured earlier that he thought, he might not have escape plans ready.
Considering the fact Sergay wasn't even suppose to be at the ceremony, since Arika asked why and he replied he was invited (The letter she sent to him), he was probably suppose to be in his office somewhat. Eitherway, Nagi is probably aware that Sergay can take care of himself.
That or because he's the North hound.:heh: Or VCV's explanation.
Eitherway Sergay was aware that it was going to happen soon.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-01-31, 13:54
Just another point; if Sergay is REALLY part of the grand plan, and Nagi trusts him, why isn't he in the OP next to Nagi's throne? Instead, we have John Smith as the (Literal) Right hand man of Nagi, and no one else.
Isn't that enough proof that Sergay isn't part of Nagi's plans? That when he said "Atari didn't have anything to do with the provoked Otome battle." he really believe it, because Nagi left him out of the loop?
Or does people hate him so much that they would actually WANT him to be evil? What gives?
ArchDragon
2006-01-31, 13:55
Sergay wasn't notified because Nagi doesn't trust him. And seriously, if Nagi HAD told him, would he keep his mouth shut? Sergay already disobeyed orders once by refusing to seduce Arika, so what stops him from warning people in Windbloom?
It is obvious from very early on in the series that Sergay and Nagi don't work well together. Both are quite prepared to betray the other just as soon as the timing is right... And both knows they are keeping secrets from the other.
That's what I was saying in my previous post, maybe Nagi thinks this is the right time to get rid of him.
As for Sergay refusing to seduce Arika, I don't think Nagi knows that yet.
And unlike his support of Arika, that can be traced using the money trail, the only one who knows what happened between them is Arika herself, who hasn't told anyone yet.
Totally agreed.
Sergey will have to play a pivotal role, and I'm more inclined because of his affection for Rena he won't be swayed.
He'll prove to be a valuable asset for the Otome, but I'm afraid that what he does or displays for Arika's sake will make Nina go crack.
I mean just take a look at the OP sequence!!
He's the only protagonic male character to be there.
Nagi and John Smith are both antagonists, and Reito & the rest of the Black Valley (minus Midori) are just cyborgs.
PastPrime
2006-01-31, 14:00
Sorry I should be more precise here, Sergay is NOT working for Schwarz nor is there any need anyways to send him a letter because he already knows the plan and is under Nagi who is the cooperator. As well as instructing him.
Why send a letter to your ally's right-hand man when he's already being instructed by him?
Considering the fact Sergay wasn't even suppose to be at the ceremony, since Arika asked why and he replied he was invited (The letter she sent to him), he was probably suppose to be in his office somewhat. Eitherway, Nagi is probably aware that Sergay can take care of himself.
That or because he's the North hound.:heh: Or VCV's explanation.
Eitherway Sergay was aware that it was going to happen soon.
Actually, I don't think Sergey was aware that the attack was going to happen. His instructions were only about finding the Princess. I think that he wasn't told because the attack would put Nina and Arika in danger and Nagi would expect him to take actions to protect them which might eliminate the element of surprise. After all, the more people that know about a surprise attack, especially those you don't fully trust, the less likely it is to be a surprise.
I concur on the fact that Nagi didn't notify Sergey because he does not trust him on a matter of that magnitude, but I doubt he wants to get rid of him just yet. He doesn't give Sergey an opportunity to betray him when it could do the most damage to his plans, and Sergey will undoubtedly still prove useful to Nagi's cause.
>> That when he said [...] because Nagi left him out of the loop?
Sergey knew it was Nagi, I refer you to Sergey's "Has it begun..?" comment just before the intro in episode fourteen.
Whichever party Sergey chooses to side with, the seemingly evil one or the good guys, I hope he will be an active character and not just reacting to others' actions. A pity about the opening though, I really hoped he would be featured with Nagi, since on that side he's more likely to shine than on the Magical Girl side.
Well... we never really do know with Nagi. He seems to know more than we know at the moment, even thoug he always act like everything is a little surprice.
Some of you mentiond befor that the OP spoiled to much. To me it did not tell me anything that i in my mind allready knew would happend. I see it as completly clear that Arika and Nina are making some kind of a friendship that will go right down to hell because of most likly Sergay!
btw. anyone wanna bed with me that the handthive arika made to "Sergay" will be used later on and it will most likely be Nina or Arika who will find it in his belongings.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-31, 14:07
His instructions were only about finding the Princess. I think that he wasn't told because the attack would put Nina and Arika in danger and Nagi would expect him to take actions to protect them which might eliminate the element of surprise. After all, the more people that know about a surprise attack, especially those you don't fully trust, the less likely it is to be a surprise.
Yeah but the letter said "it's time to put our plan into motion, that's why you need to find the princess ASAP."
That and Nagi himself said Sergay will know everything about the plan which Smith told him they can put into motion which I assume involved that big cannon.
Just another point; if Sergay is REALLY part of the grand plan, and Nagi trusts him, why isn't he in the OP next to Nagi's throne? Instead, we have John Smith as the (Literal) Right hand man of Nagi, and no one else.
Isn't that enough proof that Sergay isn't part of Nagi's plans? That when he said "Atari didn't have anything to do with the provoked Otome battle." he really believe it, because Nagi left him out of the loop?
Or does people hate him so much that they would actually WANT him to be evil? What gives?
I'm pretty sure Sergay is Nagi's right-hand man, up until NOW at this point and Nagi apparently didn't start collaborating until what? Episode 9ish?
And why would Sergay make himself a target in front of the council by saying Artai had something to do with it? Again as it was already pointed out, Sergay DID knew that Nagi had something to do with the border skirmish.
And who said Sergay was to be the bad guy or we hated him? Episode 15 pretty much proved that he's torn between his duty and such.
ArchDragon
2006-01-31, 14:11
Sorry I should be more precise here, Sergay is NOT working for Schwarz nor is there any need anyways to send him a letter because he already knows the plan and is under Nagi who is the cooperator. As well as instructing him.
Why send a letter to your ally's right-hand man when he's already being instructed by him?
I'm sure Nagi told Sergay the big picture of the plan, or at least he said so to Smith.
But it seemed to me that he purposely left out important details, like the timing of the plan.
But I get your point, it's Nagi's responsibility, not Schwarts'.
Considering the fact Sergay wasn't even suppose to be at the ceremony, since Arika asked why and he replied he was invited (The letter she sent to him), he was probably suppose to be in his office somewhat. Eitherway, Nagi is probably aware that Sergay can take care of himself.
That or because he's the North hound.:heh: Or VCV's explanation.
Eitherway Sergay was aware that it was going to happen soon.
As for Sergay being there, I'm sure he's supposed to be there either way:
1. Nagi isn't there, so he should represent Nagi as Artai's ambassador.
2. Nina is fighting, how could he not be there?
As for what he said to Arika, that's just him teasing her as usual.
SoldierOfDarkness
2006-01-31, 14:13
But it seemed to me that he purposely left out important details, like the timing of the plan.
I don't think that was actually needed to tell him anyways, all that was needed to is that be on your guard, the plan is about to begin.
As for Sergay being there, I'm sure he's supposed to be there either way:
1. Nagi isn't there, so he should represent Nagi as Artai's ambassador.
2. Nina is fighting, how could he not be there?
As for what he said to Arika, that's just him teasing her as usual.
On the contray, I'm wondering if Sergay was actually planning on waving that hankerchef?:heh:
Or was he gonna get someone else to do it?
ArchDragon
2006-01-31, 14:29
I don't think that was actually needed to tell him anyways, all that was needed to is that be on your guard, the plan is about to begin.
Not something I would do to someone I consider valuable, but I get your point.
On the contray, I'm wondering if Sergay was actually planning on waving that hankerchef?:heh:
Or was he gonna get someone else to do it?
I don't think he's going to wave it at all, he supported her anonymously for a reason.
He's not going to blow his cover just because she naively asked for it.
And I don't think he's going to let someone else wave it for him as that would give that person undue influence on Arika.
PastPrime
2006-01-31, 14:47
Not something I would do to someone I consider valuable, but I get your point.
I don't think he's going to wave it at all, he supported her anonymously for a reason.
He's not going to blow his cover just because she naively asked for it.
And I don't think he's going to let someone else wave it for him as that would give that person undue influence on Arika.
He will probably pull the hankerchef out of his pocket absentmindedly, with all thats going on, and not even realize what he has done until he sees Nina and/or Arika staring at it in surprise.
Xellos-_^
2006-01-31, 14:54
He will probably pull the hankerchef out of his pocket absentmindedly, with all thats going on, and not even realize what he has done until he sees Nina and/or Arika staring at it in surprise.
Why does everyone thinks that Nina will explode when she find out it was Sergay that was supporting Arika. SHe already thinks that Arika is Rena's daughter and that Sergay had a thing for Rena so would it be that much of a shock to find out that Sergay was supporting Arika. And She knows Arika doesn't know it was Sergay that was supporting her so whay would Nina be jealous?
Cookichu
2006-01-31, 14:55
btw. anyone wanna bed with me that the handthive arika made to "Sergay" will be used later on and it will most likely be Nina or Arika who will find it in his belongings.
I'll take that bet with you. Other than that I don't really see a way for Sergay's support for Arika coming out. He's very unlikely to say it himself. I'm pretty sure that Natsuki and Shizuru (and maybe Ms. Maria) knows that Sergay is the one financially supporting Arika at the school...however I doubt they will say anything either. The handkercheif to me is like a time bomb...ticking away for either Arika or Nina to discover (although I'm thinking Nina will be the one to find it but who knows)
Episode 15 pretty much proved that he's torn between his duty and such
True it did show that but do any of us really know what made Sergay work for Nagi in the first place. Overall Sergay doesn't seem like that bad of a person to me. The part where Nagi says something along the lines of "I suppose I should had you take care of them as well" implying Sergay would "remove" people who got in Nagi's way. To me it seemed as if Sergay wasn't all too happy with that comment like he wasn't proud of what he has done. I'm thinking that Sergay has a reason for why he started working for Nagi and that is why he is torn between staying loyal to him or helping Arika....
As for Sergay knowing about the attack, I disagree with that. Nagi had orders for Sergay to find the real princess but I'm pretty sure that Nagi is aware that Sergay already knows the true identity of the princess. Nagi himself probably already knows as well. I really don't think Nagi trusts Sergay to the extent that he would tell Sergay his plan to attack.
One possible angle you guys haven't thought of is what if instead of Nina finding it on Sergay's possession and exploding, et cetera,
Sergay 'sides' with Nagi which is ultimately Nina's side which Arika will fight. Arika decides duty over love and mortally injures Sergay, and then for whatever reason whether it falls out or he uses to wipe his blood, Arika sees the hankerchef. More points if Nina sees all this.
Another slightly different angle is Sergay who couldn't choose a side, gets injure as result of Arika and Nina fighting each other, whether it was direct like an area of effect shot or indirect like Nagi threatening them. The result of this either Arika and Nina fighting to death or realizing what they have done and join force a la Arthun-ism and fight against the bigger evil, whatever it may be.
Tempest35
2006-01-31, 17:11
Well, I won't deny, nor I don't think anyone else will for that matter, that Sergay hasn't done exactly 'good things' all the time. You don't get a name like 'North Hound' from reading to children at the local Boys n Girls club. :heh:
He's a good guy who's doing bad things for a 'noble' reason. He wants to help his country anyway he can and if it means getting his hands bloody - oh well, he's a soldier boy and he's a damn good one too.
His adoption of Nina was probably moreso for his own sake than for hers in that through her being around him, he saved his humanity and kept from continuing on down the 'North Hound' path. Heh, almost sounds like two different personas.
Sergay was probably top student in Artai's military school. What he actually saw in Nagi at such a young age is anyone's guess but I think that Sergay saw in Nagi someone who would raise Artai out of its own mediocracy and put it on the world's stage. The oath he swore to Nagi is probably his own equivilant to an Otome's Oath to her Master - just as binding but without the 'I die, you also die' stipulation. ^^
I think that Sergay will feel Nagi is betraying their dream of a strong Artai with this 'alliance' with Schwarz (a dream that probably got Sergay to work for Nagi in the first place). Natually Nagi is doing it his way and that will not sit well with Sergay at all, who wants it done nobly and with honor. It will be the nail in the coffin of their parternship and ties will be severed after that.
Then Nina walks out...
As for the hanky, I see Arika blowing up more so than Nina. Arika will have the issues reconciling Sergay, who has already ripped her heart once, as her 'Ojisama' whom she definitely holds a place in her heart (not necessarily romantic mind you). Nina will get upset no doubt. Probably because of the entire 'You lied' thing. She just might get upset at her own father on Arika's behalf. ^^;;
Could anyone please bother to explain who are the other members of Schwarz?
I know that John Smith is one of them.
And anyone wants to speculate that Schwarz will betray Nagi first before he sets his personal agenda in motion?
scribbly
2006-01-31, 23:54
Could anyone please bother to explain who are the other members of Schwarz?
John Smith is the only "public" member of Schwarz. So we don't know who anyone else is in that organization.
I don't know if anyone brought it up but what do you think of this Nina flashback pic?
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/548/ninashotssergaysnapshot2006020.jpg
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-02-01, 08:48
There's some talk in the Speculation thread about that.
One possibility is that Nina was the one who gave Sergay his scar.
One possibility is that Nina was the one who gave Sergay his scar.
I think that's more than likely. Perhaps Nina stole Sergay's weapon? :)
MattAlchemy
2006-02-01, 18:33
She probably thought he was too much of a- Then she got mad and dared to shoot him, Sergey back then probably didn't get mad and stayed his normal act.
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