View Full Version : very unrealistic that no one dies
sarugetyou
2006-01-27, 03:54
during the soul society arc, there are millions of fights and they say "i will kill you" millions of times, but anyone noticed no one actually died?
even if they were fighting with bare hands, some probably would have died if there were so many fights, let alone fight and cutting with swords.
i know it's just animation and all, but i hope they would make it at least little realistic which would make this anime much more interesting and fun to watch.
for example, in naruto, sarutobi and many others actually died and stuff.
I suspect the phrase "I will kill you" is a very accepted thing to say in the Bleach universe, it's like saying "Nice hat" or "How are you", but different.
They use it as somekind of inside joke, since they are all dead already, so when they all say "I will kill you" they are actually laughing inside on how l33t they are by using the phrase and hoping that their enemies would notice their l33tness too.
Or maybe this is anime, it's supposed to sound cool and hip and doesn't obligate the makers on anything.
Kyaa the Catlord
2006-01-27, 04:14
Realism in anime?
You're not asking for much, are you? :)
I think the writer wanted to preserve the characters to the end. Also he could have wanted to wait till he can kill them off appropriately. Like giving them an Honorable death.
Plus the whole Soul Society thing everyone was being manipulated by Aizen... The writer wanted them to prove their worth later on.
Morisato
2006-01-27, 17:40
I suspect the phrase "I will kill you" is a very accepted thing to say in the Bleach universe, it's like saying "Nice hat" or "How are you", but different.
They use it as somekind of inside joke, since they are all dead already, so when they all say "I will kill you" they are actually laughing inside on how l33t they are by using the phrase and hoping that their enemies would notice their l33tness too.
Or maybe this is anime, it's supposed to sound cool and hip and doesn't obligate the makers on anything.
Lol, they're already dead so they can't be killed.
Komataguri
2006-01-27, 18:54
Lol, they're already dead so they can't be killed.
When people in soul society die, they are reincarnated on earth...
Ichigo and the others went to SS to save Rukia from being executed and from our prospective he is the "good guy" but if you really think about it he isnt. If your buddy was on death row for killing someone, and there is no doubt he did it, and you broke into prison and killed a bunch of guards to get him out; that really wouldn't make you the "hero".
I dont think a slaughter adds more to the story or makes it more entertaining for them to be killed by the hero since they are not the villans. That is for later on in the anime where they fight more powerful and actual evil characters. It gives us the change to learn more about the character and add dept to them so when or if they actually die it is far more dramatic than "Random shinigami #3 dies at the hands of Ichigo".
i know it's just animation and all, but i hope they would make it at least little realistic which would make this anime much more interesting and fun to watch.
for example, in naruto, sarutobi and many others actually died and stuff.
Let's see. There's Sarutobi, Haku, Zabusa, Hayate, Sasori, Obito and Choba. Of those, Zabusa and Haku were "badguys" specially designed to be offed at the end of the arc. Same for Sasori. Choba was also a one arc character introduced with immediate disposal in mind and her death was preordained as soon as she revelaed her lifegiving jutsu. Obito was already dead at the beginning of the story. Him dying was the same as Ichigo's mother. That's leaving Hayate, which was indeed a positive surprise even though he was a rather minor side character and Sarutobi. Those two were the only what you might call regular characters who died. There were several other occasions where actual 2nd tier core characters could have died, but didn't due to the shounen manga plot shield. By all rights, Chouji, Neji and Gaara should have died after their big fights, but were miraculously saved from an untimely death. At this point in Naruto and especially after Gaara got called back I don't have any illusions about one of the core cast actually dying. I'm sure even if Rock Lee were forced to open all 8 gates and let's say additional 2-3 gates for good measure, he'd still survive due to the shounen manga plot shield. One Piece is the same btw. The only characters who actually die there, are the ones in flashbacks whose deaths are already history. Even the eagle man from Alabasta who carried away a bomb which should have obliterated the capital city and all of its inhabitants turned out to be alive. And let's not discuss Dragonball.
Bleach is the same as those series. We also have our fair share of badguys "dying". Among the more prominent ones are Grand Fisher and the 5 Arrancars. Well, they were dead to begin with, but since they were removed from the plot for good, let's say they're really dead now. We also have dead persons in the past with backstory attached to them (afforementioned Ichigo's mother and Ishida's grandfather). All other remaining cast members are also (you guessed it) protected by the shounen plot shield. Soul Society arc, as long as it was, was mainly setup. Lots and lots of characters were introduced with their roles for the upcoming arc already in mind. I'm sure even Kurotsuchi will serve one purpose or another. Additionally, having any of those characters die by the hand of a good guy in, what turned out to be, meaningless internal skirmishes, wouldn't have fit the shounen fighting manga mold. Good guys don't kill good guys, and bad guys wont kill good guys who still have a purpose in the story. In other words, good guys in shounen fighting manga are immortal until a noble and/or heartwrenching death can be arranged or some backdoor is readily available.
What I'm trying to say is, that since those are shounen fighting manga, there are certain rules that they follow. Complaining about the good main characters not dying in those types of stories is like ordering chicken and then criticizing it for tasting like one. If you want to read stories which follow a different set of rules you'll have to move away from shounen jump and anthologies equivalent to it and search around in the seinen (=young adult) section. Try Berserk for instance, if you haven't already.
i dont care about ppl not dying but these ppl have INSANE amounts of blood. and at the end of ichigo vs ken-chan ichigo is cut halfway trough and is fine 2 days later. also all these shoulder wounds. ppl are beeing cut from the shoulder to the bellybutton and can still move they arms around fine. just kinda wierd that character aparently dont have bones and shit that break lol. but like i said i dont have a problem with it just wierd
i dont care about ppl not dying but these ppl have INSANE amounts of blood. and at the end of ichigo vs ken-chan ichigo is cut halfway trough and is fine 2 days later. also all these shoulder wounds. ppl are beeing cut from the shoulder to the bellybutton and can still move they arms around fine. just kinda wierd that character aparently dont have bones and shit that break lol. but like i said i dont have a problem with it just wierd
The bodies of the people in Soul Society are not made of conventional matter. The manga makes it very clear that matter in the human world is made of atoms, and matter in Soul Society is made of spiritrons. That was the translation chosen by the scan that I read anyway.
I's not a spoiler, since we have gone past that part already, in the anime.
realism in anime exists only if it's convenient.
ishida has the cool looking heavenly strings so he can actually get paralyzed. but if ichigo's arm gets 90% disconnectected from his body along with all the nerve connections he can move it around as if nothing happened.
my point exactly jaden. btw so a shinigami cant die of bleeding to death? or heavy injuries? the only thing we havent seen is bodyparts beeing separated from the body although they have been 99% off. doesent seem right to me. how can a shinigami die. head beeing cut off? silver katanas? stake through the hart? :P
we have seen some instant kill injuries and sure deat injuries but ppl have some damn strong life/death force in this anime for sure
Eh, I suppose i agree with the original poster. Ganjyu should've died, after Byakuya went all bankai on his ass. I totally thought Zaraki was dead after his battle with Ichigo, especially since Yachiru's scream was all hella anguished. Kinda disappointed when he came back. And when Byakuya got effed up by.... I can't remember, either Aizen or Gin, I thought he should've died then, too.
I knew Hinamori and Hitsugaya weren't going to get killed, even thugh I was pulling for Momo to get axed. I love it when characters die.
Eh, I suppose i agree with the original poster. Ganjyu should've died, after Byakuya went all bankai on his ass. I totally thought Zaraki was dead after his battle with Ichigo, especially since Yachiru's scream was all hella anguished. Kinda disappointed when he came back. And when Byakuya got effed up by.... I can't remember, either Aizen or Gin, I thought he should've died then, too.
I knew Hinamori and Hitsugaya weren't going to get killed, even thugh I was pulling for Momo to get axed. I love it when characters die.
Byakuya didn't pull out his Bankai on Ganju, he didn't even think Renji was worthy of seeing his Bankai, much less Ganju. And it was Gin who "effed up" Byakuya if you're referring to the part where he saves Rukia from being impaled.
Eh, I suppose i agree with the original poster. Ganjyu should've died, after Byakuya went all bankai on his ass. I totally thought Zaraki was dead after his battle with Ichigo, especially since Yachiru's scream was all hella anguished. Kinda disappointed when he came back. And when Byakuya got effed up by.... I can't remember, either Aizen or Gin, I thought he should've died then, too.
I knew Hinamori and Hitsugaya weren't going to get killed, even thugh I was pulling for Momo to get axed. I love it when characters die.
I remember yachiru being excited.
The manga makes it very clear that matter in the human world is made of atoms, and matter in Soul Society is made of spiritrons.
I believe DB translation said that matter in soul society is made of reitsu. (which is why ishida could suck it up and fire it in his bow)
you all just want to see people die dont ya
i think there is one possible way though... cut off the chain of fate or something like that
if i'm not wrong, u'll lose ur powers and will eventually become a hollow...
then u'll have to die again and be reincarnated or go to ss first
you all just want to see people die dont ya
i think there is one possible way though... cut off the chain of fate or something like that
if i'm not wrong, u'll lose ur powers and will eventually become a hollow...
then u'll have to die again and be reincarnated or go to ss first
I think you're getting two things mixed up. Destroying the Chain Link and Soul Sleep prevents you from having any powers. Breaking the Chain of Fate disconnects you from your body if you're a normal human and causes you to turn into a hollow if you don't recieve a soul burial in time.
Byakuya didn't pull out his Bankai on Ganju, he didn't even think Renji was worthy of seeing his Bankai, much less Ganju. And it was Gin who "effed up" Byakuya if you're referring to the part where he saves Rukia from being impaled.
Well, whatever he did to Ganjyu, cut him up into little pieces, he still shouldn't have survived. It's not like he's even a particularly vital character.
I remember yachiru being excited.
Yeah, during the fight. And right after, but then Zaraki stopped responding.
Well, whatever he did to Ganjyu, cut him up into little pieces, he still shouldn't have survived. It's not like he's even a particularly vital character.
I'd say that Ganju is one hella stamina freak too, don't you remember how much he was cut by Yumichaka? and he could handle Zaraki's and Byakuya's reiatsu and walk or run
Yeah, during the fight. And right after, but then Zaraki stopped responding.
Yachiru said that Unohana was called, so I asume that she has a power to bring back from death untill the very moment (but it was never shown, maybe Renji in anime) so if there's Unohana than nobody dies, and Inoue has a pretty strong healing too, as Unohana said herself that Ichigo wouldn't die from being cut in half just because she healed him :D
I believe DB translation said that matter in soul society is made of reitsu. (which is why ishida could suck it up and fire it in his bow)
In other words, you can't die from "physical" injuries. Things like the wossname they use to execute people with don't work just by cutting your head off.
the thing i dont like is byakuyas shikai is suposed to chop you up to pieces and he couldnt even kill ganju? also then Yumichaka can kill ppl wioth the power of his sword then. suck out all your reiatsu and your dead not just weakened.
it's pretty lame that you can die from a decease (probably miss spelled) but not from beeing but almost in half. also getting sick in "heaven" is rather wierd lol. on the other hand kaien died pretty fast with one stab i remember right.
If you think Bleach is unrealistic, take a look at Weiss Kreuz, if ONE bullet hits you in ANY body part, no matter how insignificant or remote, you die. Period. (Besides the 4 protagonists that is) :p I prefer Bleach's theory, at least I can attribute their supposed immortality to great stamina, spirit material or whatever. :p
I guess they have homing bullets there that move from your leg or stomach to your heart or brain through the bloodstream :p
If you think Bleach is unrealistic, take a look at Weiss Kreuz, if ONE bullet hits you in ANY body part, no matter how insignificant or remote, you die. Period.
Even if its a finger?:twitch:
Even if its a finger?:twitch:
Let me illustrate. There's this guy, sitting in his office, imagine a stardard executive office, how high can that be. Ok, there's this guy STANDING in front of the desk. The sitting guy slyly pulls a gun BENEATH the desk, shoots in a front line, hits the standing guy SOMEWHERE, the best he could hit if I take the desk hole the bullet made into account has to be a leg, although again judging from the desk hole, it was probably thin air :p Anyway, let's ASSUME that he DID hit something. Ok, the guy drops down, unable to do anything, the other guy leaves, then the wounded guys comrades come in, and he tells them "I'm beyond help"... Come ON... :p He couldn't have hit the groin either, the desk was too low for that, and the desk hole doesn't really justify that, it was too low for that.
Ok next example. There's a couple hugging tightly. More likely, the guy enfolds the girl, both hands around her chest (meaning, they definitely cover the heart area). A guy shoots ONE bullet. And after what, 30 secs, the girl dies. Since she talks a bit and is conscious, I don't think it was a head wound, unless you have a skull of steel, you don't usually stay conscious if you get a bullet in the head. Besides some extraordinary circumstances, most head wounds like that are fatal. Plus, we're talking about pros firing, so IF they wanted to shoot her in the head, she'd be dead in no time. I eliminate the heart wound cause the guy holding her should have his arm pierced, too, but he didn't feel a thing. Now, tell me ONE vital area that can kill a human in a minute, not immediately, using only ONE bullet and it's not the heart,lungs or brain area, if you're aiming from behind.
And some other minor occurences :p
Let me illustrate. There's this guy, sitting in his office, imagine a stardard executive office, how high can that be. Ok, there's this guy STANDING in front of the desk. The sitting guy slyly pulls a gun BENEATH the desk, shoots in a front line, hits the standing guy SOMEWHERE, the best he could hit if I take the desk hole the bullet made into account has to be a leg, although again judging from the desk hole, it was probably thin air :p Anyway, let's ASSUME that he DID hit something. Ok, the guy drops down, unable to do anything, the other guy leaves, then the wounded guys comrades come in, and he tells them "I'm beyond help"... Come ON... :p He couldn't have hit the groin either, the desk was too low for that, and the desk hole doesn't really justify that, it was too low for that.
Ok next example. There's a couple hugging tightly. More likely, the guy enfolds the girl, both hands around her chest (meaning, they definitely cover the heart area). A guy shoots ONE bullet. And after what, 30 secs, the girl dies. Since she talks a bit and is conscious, I don't think it was a head wound, unless you have a skull of steel, you don't usually stay conscious if you get a bullet in the head. Besides some extraordinary circumstances, most head wounds like that are fatal. Plus, we're talking about pros firing, so IF they wanted to shoot her in the head, she'd be dead in no time. I eliminate the heart wound cause the guy holding her should have his arm pierced, too, but he didn't feel a thing. Now, tell me ONE vital area that can kill a human in a minute, not immediately, using only ONE bullet and it's not the heart,lungs or brain area, if you're aiming from behind.
And some other minor occurences :p
Can we safely assume that this anime you mentioned, is the most unrealistic anime, in a realistic enviroment, in an unrealistic media?(anime):heh:
Illuyankas
2006-01-29, 13:12
If this bullet pierces any major artery, and nothing is done to stem the flow of blood, then any major blood vessel in the back. No idea about likely candidates, I'm not doing a biology degree :)
Even if it is a shounen.... after an entire arc of fightings and bleeding (they should donate all that blood not to waste it! :D ) .... still nobody died. Not even Mayuri!!!! He was totally unimportant to the plot and even evil .. but no he was saved. And Ganju, Hitsugaya, Hinamori... and the list can go on an on....
Bleach is the most afraid anime to kill charachters ever.
That lead to an interesting fact. You could have discovered from the start that Aizen was the evil mastermind.. cause he "seemed" dead...:twitch:
He would have been the first dead charachter ever....:twitch:
Very suspicious.... and in fact it turned out he wasn't dead.:D
How funny!
Even if it is a shounen.... after an entire arc of fightings and bleeding (they should donate all that blood not to waste it! :D ) .... still nobody died. Not even Mayuri!!!! He was totally unimportant to the plot and even evil .. but no he was saved. And Ganju, Hitsugaya, Hinamori... and the list can go on an on....
Bleach is the most afraid anime to kill charachters ever.
That lead to an interesting fact. You could have discovered from the start that Aizen was the evil mastermind.. cause he "seemed" dead...:twitch:
He would have been the first dead charachter ever....:twitch:
Very suspicious.... and in fact it turned out he wasn't dead.:D
How funny!
Mayuri is VERY important to plot... he's a head of siance departament or something and if he's dead than there'd be more chaos after Aizen escaped... Mayuri is in charge of all those people that put limits on Captans and Vicecapitans, and all gigai comes from him too
don't you expect Urahara come and take his place when he's dead? Urahara is more talented in siance than Mayuri but he's banned from SS and works on his own...
and Mayuri grow his hand back in 15 sec after riping it off by himself, you expect somebody like that to die easy?
Can we safely assume that this anime you mentioned, is the most unrealistic anime, in a realistic enviroment, in an unrealistic media?(anime):heh:
Eh, well, they get everything else right I think :p If you discount the fact that the amount of blood is minimal, but that's just for rating purposes probably, they kill people in every episode though :p
@Illuyankas Well, besides the heart and the artery leading to the brain and the legs, I can't think of any other major artery, so those killers must be shooting leg arteries :p But I still find it weird how easily people in this anime die with one bullet from leg artery wound :p
Some things will remain a mystery :p
Like how much blood can Ichigo spill before he drops dead :p
Mayuri is VERY important to plot... he's a head of siance departament or something and if he's dead than there'd be more chaos after Aizen escaped... Mayuri is in charge of all those people that put limits on Captans and Vicecapitans, and all gigai comes from him too
don't you expect Urahara come and take his place when he's dead? Urahara is more talented in siance than Mayuri but he's banned from SS and works on his own...
and Mayuri grow his hand back in 15 sec after riping it off by himself, you expect somebody like that to die easy?
Mayuri is the head of the Science department but that's it. You can kill him and the plot won't be affected.
Who cares?
After he was defeated by Ishida nobody cared to ask where he was or what was he doing... he simply is not important.
Kt should really start to gain some courage and kill his first charachter because it's starting to get ridicolous. Or at least.... spill less blood!:rolleyes:
Mayuri is the head of the Science department but that's it. You can kill him and the plot won't be affected.
Who cares?
After he was defeated by Ishida nobody cared to ask where he was or what was he doing... he simply is not important.
Kt should really start to gain some courage and kill his first charachter because it's starting to get ridicolous. Or at least.... spill less blood!:rolleyes:
Mayuri came to Yamamoto as water and said "it's alright, give me free weakend and I'm back to job (killing little puppies or something like that)" so nobody made a big mess about Capitan being deafeted (like Zaraki)
it's not KT fault that he loves to make *wound opeining* sound so much :D
and sceenes when blood flies are cool too (instead of showing character there's blood)
character goes bad when he starts splitting blood, that must mean that he has low amout of it so he must split it
or maybe when they're cut so much they start to produce blood so fast that it just want to fly from the body like cannon balls :D u never know spirit's anatomy
what was that room that passed all judgement in SS? Room 43? yeah..they're all dead :P
main characters dieing though...not very likely to happen cause they're high school kids. If they were adults, the chances would be higher for one of them to die. Afterall...this isn't X/1999 ;)
I still cringe a bit at that scene w/ Ichigo and Zaraki's fight where Ichigo stabbed into Zaraki's face and cut across @_@
Though I'd say the most likely candidates to die......probably either Chad or Ishida(sp?) Don't get me wrong, I like these two characters, though I favor Chad more (c'mon, how many mexican characters you seen in a anime that actually have a semi main character role?)
I think you should change the title of your thread though man....asking about realism in a fighting anime that involves spirits and magical swords doesn't quite seem to go together.
wingdarkness
2006-01-30, 03:25
Welcome to shonen anime...Enjoy your stay :D ...
Now I can deal with baddies getting off'd and finding ways to come back, even wannabe good guys...but Renji has set a new standard...can't really remember the last time I seen somebody get owned like 5 times and basically ripped to shreds (I mean if he drinks a glass of water he'd be a human sprinkler)...I mean i actually like Renji, but damn at some point a plethora of hardcore (graphic and merciless) slashings multiple times to the body (before and after being bandaged) has to kill a mutha...
sarugetyou
2006-01-30, 03:50
i still think it's way too unrealistic.
aizen tried to kill hinamori with just 1 single stab... yeah, so they do die from physical injuries, and aizen is a captain, so i'm sure he knows better than any of you that they can easily die.
anyway, so 1 stab can kill a character, but getting hacked up to 1000 pieces won't kill you.
better yet, they are fighting again after like 5 minutes after getting cut in half.
what was that room that passed all judgement in SS? Room 43? yeah..they're all dead :P
:uhoh: Oooh the Central Room Blablabla? You talking about that group of people that we never saw, that never spoke and that was first explained AFTER they were killed....:rolleyes:
I bet 100% of the readers when reading that pages were just "Uh? Who cares? Who are these people anyway?"
Morisato
2006-01-30, 04:03
Mayuri is VERY important to plot... he's a head of siance departament or something and if he's dead than there'd be more chaos after Aizen escaped... Mayuri is in charge of all those people that put limits on Captans and Vicecapitans, and all gigai comes from him too
don't you expect Urahara come and take his place when he's dead? Urahara is more talented in siance than Mayuri but he's banned from SS and works on his own...
and Mayuri grow his hand back in 15 sec after riping it off by himself, you expect somebody like that to die easy?
Your grammar makes me cry.
aizen tried to kill hinamori with just 1 single stab... yeah, so they do die from physical injuries, and aizen is a captain, so i'm sure he knows better than any of you that they can easily die.
Unohana was there
Your grammar makes me cry.
sorry
ninja massacre
2006-01-30, 12:42
I can Agree with the guy who started the thread a little bit, even if it's shounen manga with rules like not killing of main characters and such, it's still a little...what should I say...wierd that For example Hinamori who weren't even a big interesting character doesn't die although she lays bleeding with her eyes open, which is a very perfect sign that the person is DEAD. Not to mention Renji who should have died on byakuyas first attack but instead survived three attacks. and losing like 95% of his blood :uhoh: I wouldn't have liked it if they killed Renji or "short-ice-greyhair-captain" but I think they can tune the death tension down a little bit if they're gonna be just fine after five minutes. I thought they did that part just a little bit better in naruto, even if that also has it's moments like sasuke "dieing" and saying farewell to naruto in ep 15 or 16. Anyways I'd still like to add that bleach is by far the coolest and most entertaining anime right now. :D
as for Renji, Hitsugaya, and Hinamori in all these cases there were Unohana that can even have something like resurection shikai or bankai :P
Renji didn't dieing from Byakuya's bankai was a little... at least they put Unohana there... but how would Byakuya look if he killed his best subordinate that wanted to impress him :D (and from wrong reason)
Sinestra
2006-01-30, 19:44
Honestly if you think about there really werent that many fights most of the fights involved Ichigo Vs. another main charcter or important charcter which of course you cant kill off yet. All the grunts spent their time running around trying to find the intruders with little or no luck. So if you can find em you cant kill em if there were going to be any deaths it would have involved Ichigo, Rukia, Chad, Orihime, Ishida or one of the Vice Capt or Capt. At least thats what i think
JubeiYamazaki
2006-01-31, 00:35
Not to insult anyone but really, what the hell? Why does everyone think that EVERYTHING needs to have death in order for it to be "better"? I'm not saying death isn't a powerful effect, but it can be used unnecessarily and a perfect example of that is BLEACH. And I'll explain why:
Its a damn kid's show.
I watch Bleach for two reasons, seeing my favorite characters kick ass weekly, and for mindless entertainment. To kill off a character in a show like BLEACH or any shonen to me is stupid and pointless. Shonens are meant to throw in tons of characters, heros and villians alike and create fanbases among those fans, and just have fun seeing their characters show up, fight or be comical etc. etc.
To say "such and such" should have died is a pretty selfish thought imo, to purposely deny a group of fans their favorite character in a kid's show is just wrong.
Just sit back, enjoy the show and be glad no ones going to die. Because some guilty pleasures shouldn't have "real-life consquences".
Not to insult anyone but really, what the hell? Why does everyone think that EVERYTHING needs to have death in order for it to be "better"? I'm not saying death isn't a powerful effect, but it can be used unnecessarily and a perfect example of that is BLEACH. And I'll explain why:
Its a damn kid's show.
I watch Bleach for two reasons, seeing my favorite characters kick ass weekly, and for mindless entertainment. To kill off a character in a show like BLEACH or any shonen to me is stupid and pointless. Shonens are meant to throw in tons of characters, heros and villians alike and create fanbases among those fans, and just have fun seeing their characters show up, fight or be comical etc. etc.
To say "such and such" should have died is a pretty selfish thought imo, to purposely deny a group of fans their favorite character in a kid's show is just wrong.
Just sit back, enjoy the show and be glad no ones going to die. Because some guilty pleasures shouldn't have "real-life consquences".
That could be considered true... BUT... the problem is not that in Bleach there are few deaths.... there are zero deaths!
Of course this is shounen but Bleach is pushing the limit of tolerance in the genre. No deaths can really hurt the show. Bleach is supposed to rely on fights (not the story) and charachters...
but if the charachters bleed like fountain (and Renji would be sufficient to make a second Red Sea), continously shout "I will kill you", "i put my life on line for this fight ...for my friends" and similar things... and nobody dies (and OF COURSE nobody is asking for Ichigo or co to die since this is shounen) not even the secondary or smaller charachters, the most evil or unnecessary for the plot (like Mayuri).... you start to think
"Who cares!" "Yeah yeah bankai my *** it's more deadly to throw cakes" "He/She is dead? Yeah right i bet he/she will be alright in a couple of episode"
Where is the tension when you know that in the end nobody will die? Are we playing "go" or fighting seriously?
And stop with Unohana. Kill her already! what's with her? Resurrection (for shinigami?) for everybody as normal as turning on the tv?
This is shounen of course but read my lips: z-e-r-o dead people is fraud. Even for the genre. I don't recall another fighting shounen that is in a similar situation.
This is shounen of course but read my lips: z-e-r-o dead people is fraud. Even for the genre. I don't recall another fighting shounen that is in a similar situation.
Well, its just 65 episodes so far, so there "should" be alot of chances for at least 1 good-guy death to occur. Unless it has yet to occur in the manga as well...
I have to agree with JubeiYamazaki... I mean, what the hell? Bleach is pushing the limits of tolerance? Not enough death? (And don't reply back with the "It's not just not enough, it's zero!"... it's been done already) I'm sure they'll be extremely heartbroken when you stop watching/reading/whatever the hell you're doing now. I'm not gonna sit here and argue against it being unrealistic, but let's think about that... why the hell would I??? It's a fictional show.
I've seen a number of suggestions here for other anime series for people to watch if they're getting antsy from missing their daily death quota (honestly, you disgust me) and I hope you search out those other options if you haven't already. For those simply looking for more realism... maybe you're looking in the wrong place.
Bleach ain't broke, so don't try to fix it. :frustrated:
Actually, Kaien died fair and square from being impaled with a soul slayer.
So i suppose it's possible to kill death gods as long as Unohana isn't anywhere nearby.
Actually, Kaien died fair and square from being impaled with a soul slayer.
So i suppose it's possible to kill death gods as long as Unohana isn't anywhere nearby.
that's what I'm talking about, Unohana is a safe plot device to keep characters alive :D
and I'll put something that Ken-chan said in recent manga:
if u didn't die than u'r lucky :D or something among those lines :D
wingdarkness
2006-01-31, 17:08
Unohana needs to get fragged like Dende (dbz) did that time :p ...
Most if not all anime is fictional...So please stop using that lame novice point...Something being fiction and undeniably unrealistic has nothing to do with some veiwers feeling a character or 2 should die...It's not like people are saying we just wish somebody dies (Like it's a final Gundam episode)...There saying that the deaths or supposed deaths have been portrayed in a way that's so emotionally impactful (Like Hinamori and Renji for example) that when the character winds up not dying it's almost like what was the point of making us feel that tension?? If Unohana is just gonna go around Dende-ing people what's the point of that suspense...Now this doesn't bother me that much, but this thread does want to discuss why no one really dies, yet they get "death-scenes"...Being a kid's show shouldn't be a prerequisite for ignoring this point...Hell kids shows in japan are alot worse in content than adult shows in the US...
JubeiYamazaki
2006-01-31, 18:55
Of course this is shounen but Bleach is pushing the limit of tolerance in the genre. No deaths can really hurt the show. Bleach is supposed to rely on fights (not the story) and charachters...
I bolded the text where you contradicted yourself. By killing off characters you're purposely taking away one of the fundemental elements that supports the show, which would do a lot more damage then good. And if the lack of death hasn't hurt the show now, I doubt it will ever. I mean they are producing a musicial about Bleach.
but if the charachters bleed like fountain (and Renji would be sufficient to make a second Red Sea), continously shout "I will kill you", "i put my life on line for this fight ...for my friends" and similar things... and nobody dies (and OF COURSE nobody is asking for Ichigo or co to die since this is shounen) not even the secondary or smaller charachters, the most evil or unnecessary for the plot (like Mayuri).... you start to think
Think about what? People aren't going to die? I don't watch something like a shonen and just wonder whose going to bite the dust. And to me a lot of fans, and I mean a huge majority of them take everything a character says too seriously. Instead of looking at the intensity and vindication in their words, people actually assume since they said it, they will automatically do it. If I said, "Today I'm going to the mechanic to get my car fixed then head to the store and buy food." And just for fun lets say I really need to eat or I need deordrant really bad, and going to the store is extremely important to me. But then the mechanic takes ALL day with my car, and thus I cannot go to the store. That's how I view whenever someone says "I'm going to kill you". It just proves their deterimination/hatred towards their opponent but never in my mind do I ever think that they'll do it, cause its never that easy, in anything.
And seriously if it really bothers you that much, revert to comicbook fan rule #1: Ignore it.
Don't like an exchange of dialogue with no real reprecussions on the canon of the show, or just don't like a consquence of a characters actions, yet you still like the show? Then ignore it. I do it all the time for stuff like that, one nitpick shouldn't ruin an otherwise great show for anyone.
"Who cares!" "Yeah yeah bankai my *** it's more deadly to throw cakes" "He/She is dead? Yeah right i bet he/she will be alright in a couple of episode"
Where is the tension when you know that in the end nobody will die? Are we playing "go" or fighting seriously?
For the record, I've watched and LOVED Hikaru no Go, the tension from those matches were so amazingly intense, you can kill off characters left and right in Bleach but it won't even come close to the exicitment that Hikaru no Go had. That was strictly all atompshere, and a great attention to detail. They took something as "boring" as Go and made it to a great and exiciting show, without needing anyone to die for almost the entire run of the show.
And stop with Unohana. Kill her already! what's with her? Resurrection (for shinigami?) for everybody as normal as turning on the tv?
That's all you.
his is shounen of course but read my lips: z-e-r-o dead people is fraud. Even for the genre. I don't recall another fighting shounen that is in a similar situation.
I can name one, and that's really all I need to name and its Dragonball Z. I can't really recall anyone seriously dying in that show, other then small Buu which was basically at the very end of the series. Everyone else that "died" was quickly ressurected or shown alive and well in Heaven. DBZ actually makes death less important and consequential when compared to something like Bleach.
Yet that show is probably the most popular anime to ever made.
EDIT: The more I think about it, DBZ did feature a few deaths, but mostly villians that just happened to show up and be there. The only real villians I can think of that got killed were Cell and Small Buu. Radditiz(sp?) Ginyu Force and all those other guys just showed up and started wrecking shit. While everyone that was "developed" never really died.
Kid's don't care about shit like death and real life consquences. Kids just want to watch something fun or "escape" for half an hour and be entertained. And that's how I look at it too.
But if something like that bothers you that much, maybe you should just watch something like MONSTER, or Samurai 7.
:uhoh: Oooh the Central Room Blablabla? You talking about that group of people that we never saw, that never spoke and that was first explained AFTER they were killed....:rolleyes:
I bet 100% of the readers when reading that pages were just "Uh? Who cares? Who are these people anyway?"
(looks at the title of the thread) I see nothing in the title or the OP being very specific on anything...hmm...
my arguement stands.
I agree with wingdarkness.
And the the thing is, the only "death" scenes we have on bleach are flash backs.
Added to the fact that people like Hinamori + Renji having "death scenes" AND YET THEY DONT DIE, makes people go :"WTF?". Not to mention that Renji had 2 death scenes.
(Like Hinamori and Renji for example) that when the character winds up not dying it's almost like what was the point of making us feel that tension??
TV drama's do it all the time :3 Example: If anyone here is old enough to remember the show Dallas, where Patrick Duffy's character died, but the entire season ended up being a dream and he didn't actually die. Drama for your soul....drama for your soul...
I bolded the text where you contradicted yourself. By killing off characters you're purposely taking away one of the fundemental elements that supports the show, which would do a lot more damage then good. And if the lack of death hasn't hurt the show now, I doubt it will ever. I mean they are producing a musicial about Bleach.
There is no contraction. An epic death can in fact improve greatly a charachter. Haku from Naruto will be remembered for this. Or the Gold Saints from Saint Seiya. Just to stay in the same genre. Or the monk from Samurai Trooper.
Think about what? People aren't going to die? I don't watch something like a shonen and just wonder whose going to bite the dust. And to me a lot of fans, and I mean a huge majority of them take everything a character says too seriously. Instead of looking at the intensity and vindication in their words, people actually assume since they said it, they will automatically do it. If I said, "Today I'm going to the mechanic to get my car fixed then head to the store and buy food." And just for fun lets say I really need to eat or I need deordrant really bad, and going to the store is extremely important to me. But then the mechanic takes ALL day with my car, and thus I cannot go to the store. That's how I view whenever someone says "I'm going to kill you". It just proves their deterimination/hatred towards their opponent but never in my mind do I ever think that they'll do it, cause its never that easy, in anything.
That's why the charachters lack credibility now. If you don't see a problem here there are a lot of people (like me) that do see a problem in this behaviour. We are not majority of course but that's not a good reason to ignore this problem.
The charachters continue to express their determination saying they are fighting for their ideals betting the most important thing: life.
They are fighting for friendship or for duty but the important thing is that these are fights to death. It's not a sport anime to only defeat the opponent: they are trying to kill each other. That said there is the golden rule of Shounen to never kill main and good charachters. We all know that. But we know too that Death was always a active in all shounen from saint seiya to dragonball to HXH to .... every shounen! There were casualties (of course the majority were evil). But that showed the audience after the hype for the fights: defeat can lead to death.
Nothing like that in Bleach. After all the hype, after all the tension built.... no matter the blood, the injuries, the death scenes, the stabbing.... after a fast healing charachters are back to back to normal.
Bleach fans that love Bleach no matter the flaws say that there is at least Kaien.... I mean Kaien... he was already dead when the story began ... It's so sad to make excuses and mention Kaien...:rolleyes:
And seriously if it really bothers you that much, revert to comicbook fan rule #1: Ignore it.
Don't like an exchange of dialogue with no real reprecussions on the canon of the show, or just don't like a consquence of a characters actions, yet you still like the show? Then ignore it. I do it all the time for stuff like that, one nitpick shouldn't ruin an otherwise great show for anyone.
Why do i have to ignore this problem? Am i a passive reader/viewer that accept all the crap without discussing it and criticize something i don't like? Do i have to shut the brain down during Bleach or can i write down what exactly is going "wrong"?
For the record, I've watched and LOVED Hikaru no Go, the tension from those matches were so amazingly intense, you can kill off characters left and right in Bleach but it won't even come close to the exicitment that Hikaru no Go had. That was strictly all atompshere, and a great attention to detail. They took something as "boring" as Go and made it to a great and exiciting show, without needing anyone to die for almost the entire run of the show.
Well here we agree. In fact i think Hikaru no Go is far superior than Bleach and i loved it too. But that's the big difference: one is a sport and one is shounen. HnG did greatly in building tension because you see the consequences of defeat: dreams are shattered, your goals are lost. HnG was able to build great charachters cause they captured the "spirit" of the sport genre: victories and defeats. Bleach is not doing so in his genre: after a defeat the Bleach charachters are given a pat on the shoulders and "Too bad, next match you will be more lucky."
That's all you.
Unohana (the new Denden) should just die. Really. That's deus ex machina's trick to save everyone. She is annoying.
I can name one, and that's really all I need to name and its Dragonball Z. I can't really recall anyone seriously dying in that show, other then small Buu which was basically at the very end of the series. Everyone else that "died" was quickly ressurected or shown alive and well in Heaven. DBZ actually makes death less important and consequential when compared to something like Bleach.
Yet that show is probably the most popular anime to ever made.
EDIT: The more I think about it, DBZ did feature a few deaths, but mostly villians that just happened to show up and be there. The only real villians I can think of that got killed were Cell and Small Buu. Radditiz(sp?) Ginyu Force and all those other guys just showed up and started wrecking shit. While everyone that was "developed" never really died.
You are forgetting a good amount but let's leave at that.
Kid's don't care about shit like death and real life consquences. Kids just want to watch something fun or "escape" for half an hour and be entertained. And that's how I look at it too.
But if something like that bothers you that much, maybe you should just watch something like MONSTER, or Samurai 7.
Rest assured .... i'm watching Monster and co. And Gankotsou is one of my favourite of course.
Maybe that will shock you but one of my favourite genres is comedy. The point is a good show should do his best in his own genre. Comedy without laughs is nothing. Sport without excting matches is nothing. Gundam without Mecha is nothing.... and Shounen without deadly fights... is ... let's say disappointing.:D
The characters may lack credibility to you, but not others. I'm pretty sure there are countless anime's that featured characters that sport the quote "I'll kill you!" and don't follow through w/ it, but still end up being someone's favorite character. The only one I can think of at this moment that followed through w/ "I'll kill you" is from Voltage Fighter Gowcaizer...haven't watched that in a while so I may be mistaken, but yeah...just an example.
JubeiYamazaki
2006-02-03, 01:25
There is no contraction. An epic death can in fact improve greatly a charachter. Haku from Naruto will be remembered for this. Or the Gold Saints from Saint Seiya. Just to stay in the same genre. Or the monk from Samurai Trooper.
That's true but in that same note, letting a character live and face their mistakes and grow can greatly improve a show rather then a death, like Hiei from YYH. And everyone and I mean everyone I've ever spoken to about Ronin Warriors has said the exact samething, when Talpa was killed and Anubis cameback that show became hard as fuck. And when Anubis was fighting Kayura near the end, and died that was one of the most awsome comebacks ever. And for shows of that nature, that's probably the only time I like seeing people dying. Since the show is coming into its final conculsions might as well let them get axe'd in the finale, they've all had their runs.
But going back to Naruto, how hard would it be to see Haku grow up? Becoming his own man and no longer a weapon? Or how badass would of Zabuza have been if he survived, and understood his ways, and grew a sense of humanity into him, and passed it along to Haku? In the end its not the death that's important its how its written that matters, weither alive or not.
That's why the charachters lack credibility now. If you don't see a problem here there are a lot of people (like me) that do see a problem in this behaviour. We are not majority of course but that's not a good reason to ignore this problem.
The charachters continue to express their determination saying they are fighting for their ideals betting the most important thing: life.
They are fighting for friendship or for duty but the important thing is that these are fights to death. It's not a sport anime to only defeat the opponent: they are trying to kill each other. That said there is the golden rule of Shounen to never kill main and good charachters. We all know that. But we know too that Death was always a active in all shounen from saint seiya to dragonball to HXH to .... every shounen! There were casualties (of course the majority were evil). But that showed the audience after the hype for the fights: defeat can lead to death.
Nothing like that in Bleach. After all the hype, after all the tension built.... no matter the blood, the injuries, the death scenes, the stabbing.... after a fast healing charachters are back to back to normal.
Bleach fans that love Bleach no matter the flaws say that there is at least Kaien.... I mean Kaien... he was already dead when the story began ... It's so sad to make excuses and mention Kaien...:rolleyes:
Death has been an active role in shonen because the creators allowed it to be, if anything Bleach proves that a shonen can be amazingly successful without needing death as some sort of plot device. Look at One Piece and its awsome popularity, I don't think anyones ever died in that show and it became a huge success. Again it comes down to the one thing that matters: the writing. Whenever Luffy is in a fight its always to the death, but he and everyone he fights comes out of it alive. But what matters the most is NOT a fight that can lead to death, but what he's willing to die for and that's his: NAAKKKKKKKKKAAAAAAMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Same with Bleach, and its the same with every shonen, they may be fighting to death, but its always for friendship, love, the greater good. And that's really the message, protect what means the most to you.
I don't know about you, but Ichigo and everyone else in that show have not lost their creditablity to me. Seeing the lengths Ichigo went to in order to save Rukia was pretty amazing to me, the fights he was forced to fight and everything leading up to her, including fighting a being of pure energy, I mean wow. For me the tension wasn't in the fighting but if he was going to happen in-between all those fights. And he did exactly what he said he would, he saved her. Even Renji was willingly ready to die against Byaku, that to me says a lot more then just dying. I can't wait to see how further Renji and Byaku develop with Ichigo and Rukia and especially their common bond as Capt. and Lt.
Why do i have to ignore this problem? Am i a passive reader/viewer that accept all the crap without discussing it and criticize something i don't like? Do i have to shut the brain down during Bleach or can i write down what exactly is going "wrong"?
I'm saying not you're not allowed to criticize it, but what I am saying is that no matter what you watch or read it won't be perfect, and that it won't probably change not matter whats said. And if you still think the show is dope as hell despite that, then don't let one small aspect like that ruin it for you, that's all I'm saying.
Well here we agree. In fact i think Hikaru no Go is far superior than Bleach and i loved it too. But that's the big difference: one is a sport and one is shounen. HnG did greatly in building tension because you see the consequences of defeat: dreams are shattered, your goals are lost. HnG was able to build great charachters cause they captured the "spirit" of the sport genre: victories and defeats. Bleach is not doing so in his genre: after a defeat the Bleach charachters are given a pat on the shoulders and "Too bad, next match you will be more lucky."
This is where we think differently, I think HnG is absolutely amazing, and I feel exactly the same about Bleach, but I do not think of one or the other as superior, I just view them as amazingly great shows. As for your comparisons, I believe both shows are very similiar to each other. As you said in HnG, dreams are shattered and basically worlds are turned upside down, the same can be said about Bleach. When Hikaru beat Akira for the very first time, he decided to be taken seriously and wanted to be a "stronger" player and not some joke, and when he went against Akira again at the tournament, determined to prove himself a skillful player, he got his ass handed down to him, which further motivated him, and again gave him great character depth. Same could be said about Ichigo when he first fought Byaku and he got his ass handed down to him and further motivated him to do what needed to be done. Everyone who lost felt the consquences of their actions, and now have an opportunity to grow from it. Execpt for maybe Kenpachi, because no matter what he'll always be the top tier badass. And Miyuri because he's just an asshole.
Unohana (the new Denden) should just die. Really. That's deus ex machina's trick to save everyone. She is annoying.
I don't find her that interesting to begin with, so to me she's like whatever.
Rest assured .... i'm watching Monster and co. And Gankotsou is one of my favourite of course.
Maybe that will shock you but one of my favourite genres is comedy. The point is a good show should do his best in his own genre. Comedy without laughs is nothing. Sport without excting matches is nothing. Gundam without Mecha is nothing.... and Shounen without deadly fights... is ... let's say disappointing.:D
The way I look at it as long as I come out of it laughing, sad, angry, pride or just entertained, depending on what I am watching/in the mood for then they did their job. And Bleach is certainly keeping me entertained.
"I will kill you" ... you don't say that every day, don't you... you might say it once or twice when really angry at somebody being late or something, but u don't have ocasion to mean it... seriously... so in manga or anime people just put that words so you can read or listean to them... don't know why, I'm not psychiatrist (sp?)
Kubo just use death sceen's to develope character's as the best moment to give flash back and show motives is than, not when eating cornflakes with milk in the morining
Renji get two flashbacks as he is really cool and important character for KT
in shounen series not really bad guys or the coolest one are made nearly dead and than somehow return to good side... it's that creator makes a good character and don't want to lose it easly :P
wingdarkness
2006-02-03, 16:00
Even Renji was willingly ready to die against Byaku, that to me says a lot more then just dying. I can't wait to see how further Renji and Byaku develop with Ichigo and Rukia and especially their common bond as Capt. and Lt.
Renji meant that $hit he told Byakuya...and Byakuya meant that $hit he told Renji...I see no need for them to be all "hunky-doory" with each other now....Yeah he now knows Byakuya's secret but when somebody insults your pride as a man in the manner Byakuya did...I don't give a damn, i wouldn't have befriended him again (atleast not how Renji did)...Keep in mind Byakuya had no intention of apologizing at all...Sometimes keeping grudges is a healthy thing...I would ask to be reassigned to a new squad personally...
The way I look at it as long as I come out of it laughing, sad, angry, pride or just entertained, depending on what I am watching/in the mood for then they did their job. And Bleach is certainly keeping me entertained.
And BLEACH keeps me entertained aswell, but if somebody dies in the process of a very emotional, very jaded exchange of wills (or power)...I'll still be entertained...Not that I need this, but I do welcome it sometimes (especially in Hinimori's case--The hatred for Aizen would still be palpable with everyone mourning over her death, remembering her death)...You gotta admit (especially non-manga heads like myself) when we thought Aizen killed her that was one of the most surprising and wickedly strong death-scenes I've seen in a long time...That scene was so strong and impactful, to just bring Hinimori back just makes that scene lose the epic-nature it had bestoyed to me...
Considering what happened to Mwu La Flaga (Gundam SEED and GSDestiny), I've changed my approach somewhat to death in action series...Bringing a character back can sometimes destroy all the credibility of a character in my mind...And the kids (in Japan) that watch this are evidently watching the bloodlust and implied death scenes...Why wouldn't they be able to handle the actual death? They've seen way more than US runts...they can handle it...
horsdhaleine
2006-08-20, 13:32
during the soul society arc, there are millions of fights and they say "i will kill you" millions of times, but anyone noticed no one actually died?
even if they were fighting with bare hands, some probably would have died if there were so many fights, let alone fight and cutting with swords.
i know it's just animation and all, but i hope they would make it at least little realistic which would make this anime much more interesting and fun to watch.
for example, in naruto, sarutobi and many others actually died and stuff.
well, it's fiction. and they're actually all dead. they heal and recover in a different way from humans in a bleach world...
Pippin4242
2006-08-20, 14:07
Ok next example. There's a couple hugging tightly. More likely, the guy enfolds the girl, both hands around her chest (meaning, they definitely cover the heart area). A guy shoots ONE bullet. And after what, 30 secs, the girl dies. Since she talks a bit and is conscious, I don't think it was a head wound, unless you have a skull of steel, you don't usually stay conscious if you get a bullet in the head. Besides some extraordinary circumstances, most head wounds like that are fatal. Plus, we're talking about pros firing, so IF they wanted to shoot her in the head, she'd be dead in no time. I eliminate the heart wound cause the guy holding her should have his arm pierced, too, but he didn't feel a thing. Now, tell me ONE vital area that can kill a human in a minute, not immediately, using only ONE bullet and it's not the heart,lungs or brain area, if you're aiming from behind.
Some of us were too busy crying to notice the unlikeliness of her death. :P
*~Pips~*
SuperKnuckles
2006-08-21, 02:13
"Not to insult anyone but really, what the hell? Why does everyone think that EVERYTHING needs to have death in order for it to be "better"?"
Yes. Yes it does. Atleast with some frivolous characters who should've risked their lives or have died for a worthy cause. It's just like when Hanatarou confronted Byakuya. Something should've happened, but Ichigo saved the day. Stuff like that makes the story feel a bit inconclusive or not as exciting IMO.
It doesn't mean the characters absolutely have to die. But in Ichigo and Hitsugaya's case, they escaped death so many times, it's almost a running gag.
Cooldude
2006-08-21, 02:14
It's a Shounen Manga/Anime, not many people if any at all are ever gonna die, even if they get chopped up to little bits
Qc0Jh1axT
2006-08-21, 06:26
too much effort are put into the characters to just kill them off.
maybe near the end. inoue dies. that means there is a god in bleach. and kubo is god.
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