[Mai Otome] Episode 17 Discussion/Poll

[Iron Maw]

This is completely academic in the face of invasion. This is an immediate threat, to Gaurderobe as well as Windbloom. Also, by targeting transportation, it is effectively a direct attack on Gaurderobe as well. The fact is, with Mashiro's permission, no one will fault them for a defensive action such as this, and the treaty may not even apply to Schwarz.

Again, this just like 14 years ago.

Besides, to ask the permission of the invaders if it is okay to defend yourself is senseless. I do pay attention to past episodes, but I refuse to ignore reason for the sake of convenience.

Except Gaderobe isn't part of Windbloom in the first place which destroy this agruement. They wouldn't be defending themselves, they would be defending Windbloom. They don't need permission to protect Garderobe, it's own state.


A mistake they probably don't want to repeat. Besides, if two Pillars were sitting next to the Windbloom royalty at dinner, how would they greet the intruders? "Carry on, we're not authorized to prevent any assassinations at this time." Treaty or not, this sort of response in completely immoral and unthinkable.

Except it wasn't a mistake. Especially since both Schwarz and Aswald attacked Windbloom during that time. It's either a country's Meister Otome's job or the it's own army to protect's borders, not Garderobe because of the treaty. This why Miss Maria heavy reprimand Nina for attacking Slave and forming a contact with Mashiro in Episode 1, and put her in the brig. Shizuru only finished Slave off since they were already invovled due to Nina's actions. Windbloom's army has to handle it's own affairs until they can get another Otome.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

But the school is in Windbloom. And besides, attacking your enemy's weapon is one way to defend yourself. And the enemy eventually attacked that underground facility anyway, which I'm sure belongs to the school.

Uh actually if you look at it, the school IS seperate of Windbloom. It's situated way up there in the hills away from the city. So if I was attacking the city full force it wouldn't be hard to avoid damaging the school.

That and the school HAS to be independent. I thought this was obvious but I guess people need some explanation. This is a school that sends little girls to be the generals and bodyguards of various countries and their armies.

You'd think it's appropiate for a school like that to be in the least involved in the politics of Windbloom? It's like the Jedi Council in Star Wars being intertwined in the politics of the Old Republic to the point where the Jedi, who are suppose to be peacekeepers, became generals and soldiers for the Republic's own interest whether they like it or not. The school has to be unbias as much as possible since their the ones supplying soldiers to various countries that could ignite into warfare like Romulus and Remus.

That's why they have a council governing the school from various countires, Mashiro doesn't have total authority over them.

A mistake they probably don't want to repeat. Besides, if two Pillars were sitting next to the Windbloom royalty at dinner, how would they greet the intruders? "Carry on, we're not authorized to prevent any assassinations at this time." Treaty or not, this sort of response in completely immoral and unthinkable.

That "mistake" was something Windbloom made, not Garderobe. As Sergay said, because Rena gave up her powers, she left the country defenseless which resulted in the Queen and King's deaths whom she was suppose to PROTECT. Harsh but true.

And if you need more explanation, it's because of these treaties on the Otomes that Nagi and Schwarz are taking advantage of. This is what the show is showing.

This is the kind of issue that Takumi and Nagi addressed as both are uncomfortable with the idea of relying everything on one girl.

[anomono]

A Invasion of WindBloom not Gaurderobe. The sandship base is NOT a part of Gaurderobe.
I didn't say it was part of Gaurderobe. It still has definite consequences for Gaurderobe though.
If they invade Gauderobe, yes they can defend themselves and at point can launch attacks on the slaves. But the attack so far has been limited to WindBloom itself so the school can't interfer.
Shwarz is made out to be the enemy of the entire world. With the first shot, they have completely isolated Windbloom from the world. You would allow them to conquer Windbloom and fortify their position for the obvious purpose of staging an attack against Gaurderobe? This is not in the interest of *any* of the countries.
Thats why Royalty has thier own Otomes. It may be immoral but it is probably written intot he treaty for the school to not interfer in the event of a war between countires. They probably did not forsee Schwartz and Aswald getting into the mix when they wrote the original treaty.
I can not believe you would use a treaty to absolve yourself of moral responsibility in such a situation. That may be convenient, but it is absolutely disgusting.
And unless your name is George W Bush, most people ahear treaties they agree on.
Treaties are only useful when people adhere to them, and even then only when they adhere to the ideal of the treaty. If Schwarz has their way, the otome system will perish, and the said treaty will be meaningless.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Perhaps this will make things more clear

No matter how much he annoys us, he knows that we can't do anything about it due to the Wind Treaty
-natsuki in regards to dealing with Schwarz

And it shows in this episode with Schwarz taking full advantage of it.

Shwarz is made out to be the enemy of the entire world. With the first shot, they have completely isolated Windbloom from the world. You would allow them to conquer Windbloom and fortify their position for the obvious purpose of staging an attack against Gaurderobe? This is not in the interest of *any* of the countries.

Except Schwarz isn't an enemy of the entire world, where did it ever stated that?

And how did shooting the port isolate Windbloom? I'm pretty sure when Nina was looking out at the desert there was a fleet of naval ships arriving. Talk about isolation...

And they weren't conquering Windbloom either. There was no telling what Schwarz was up to other than making some sort of attack and looking for the queen. BY THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

Remember, they've already attacked Windbloom several times and it's always been after the queen.

[Tempest35]

Gosh, I thought people realized just what Schwartz/Nagi was thinking/planning from when Nagi asked Aswald to join up with them. By Nagi asking them, he also let them know that 'yea, Schwartz will attack Garderobe'.

Being Aswald, they want Garderobe's tech for themselves, Midori even said that. So while it appeared that Schwartz was disarming Windbloom, they went ahead to attack Garderobe DIRECTLY. This was exactly what Smith needed at the Gun Tower to set up that special EMP that knocked out the GEM recognition relay to un-contracted GEMS from Shinso.

As for why Natsuki and Shizuru didn't materialize at the first shot, Natsuki only activated everyone's GEMs in order to get them out of Windbloom. Natsuki's first priority is her students and Shizuru is bound by Pillar statutes not to materialize in another country due to the regulations - even to take out a potentially dangerous weapon that could be used against Garderobe. The point is that it was Windbloom's castle - that's officially Windbloom territory. The only action Natsuki could have taken she did - get her girls outta there. They were going into special wartime proceedures when Aswald came to play. Occuping the two Pillars was what Schwartz wanted Aswald to do while they 'EMP'ed Garderobe - it was a brillant tatic that worked - not an action that happened because Natsuki or Shizuru were too 'dumbfounded' to react to it.

Natsuki can't materialize unless the school is in DIRECT danger. It's not like she didn't WANT to take out that gun tower, hell it was dangerous - she just couldn't. And they had NO idea that Schwartz had a special EMP to knock out Shinso's relay to their GEMs. Either Natsuki herself or Shizuru could have withstood a direct hit from that cannon and blocked it - they probably weren't too worried about that itself. As for the Otome treaty and all its stipulations - hey they're there already. There is a difference between reading about politics, knowing about politics and being immersed in politics. Desicions made by Natsuki do not only affect her any more - being the political figure head of Garderobe places immense pressure on her. A desicion to materialize and take out the cannon just after the first shot might have saved Garderobe from invasion and the 'EMP', but what of Windbloom and the reprecussions/aftermath?
The Otome only look after themselves and write off any actions taken in other countries that could 'endanger' them? What in the world could endanger an Otome? They destroy a castle that had nothing to do with them - only because they saw it as a 'threat'. It's kinda like how some of the RL nations view the US's 'policing actions'.
The other countries would have ripped into Natsuki for it, despite her intentions - you saw how the representatives were when Shizuru performed against the first Slave in ep 1. One's 'intentions' mean little or squat in politics. She could have dragged the school down and sullied the supposedly impeccable reputation that the Otome uphold. Natsuki, as Headmaster, has the duty of upholding Garderobe as a beacon of light to the world - the 'good guys.' If you are the 'good guy', sometimes you have to get beaten up to prove that yes, you ARE the good guy. If you are held to a higher standard than everyone else, you have to act accordingly, even if it means taking flak for things beyond your control - it's called responsibility.

Whew, that was pretty intense...^^

Oh yeah, the 'Evil Nina' thing - She's 15 years old for goodness sake and it's called 'over-reacting'. I know that you've never EVER overreacted to something that was very small in your life before - oh no, NEVER...:p
And no, you are NOT in her position so you don't know how she was feeling at the time.
Seeing that your foster father dropped a hankerchief that your friend/roommate/rival made to thank her benefactor wouldn't make YOU react to strike out in a rage to kill her. Sure, it shocked the hell out of her and peeved her off a bit as well.
But Nina didn't leap at Arika for that. Remember, Nagi toyed with Sergay using words for a good 45 seconds before contracting Nina as his Otome. Nagi only asked AFTER he brought reasonable doubt in her heart that Sergay may have actually feelings for Arika - that's why he protected Arika from Nagi's plan. THAT is what made Nina go over the edge - the fact that Sergay didn't answer to Nagi's claim that he may like Arika.
NOW Nina has an 'excuse' to attack Arika. The one that she loves may love her biggest rival. With Arika being Rena's 'successor' in Nina's mind, it's even more so since she KNOWs that Sergay had a thing for Rena - its a double whammy. Even though her father's crush is no more - the 'successor' to that woman is also making her father act 'strange' as well, not to mention drawing attention away from her.
It might not make YOU attack in a jealous rage but also remember - Sergay is Nina's weak spot. Apply just a slight amount of pressure and you'll get a very strong reaction from Nina. She even teared up in front of Arika at the thought of Sergay and Arika having something between them.
That and all, Nina's, like most young girls in a 'Mai-' series, have very askew views on what 'love' is.

And while Nina did technically 'kill' Ers-chan, she did not murder her. Erstin put her Slave between them on purpose in a split second. Being mad with rage, all Nina saw was something blocking her path to her target and slashed through it - only afterward did she remember/realize that it was Erstin's Slave.

....*falls over* ... fingers...numb... and you know, this post probably didn't help with anything except to confuse even more... :heh:

EDIT: Please note that I did not mention anything about Sergay's revelation that Arika is the true Queen on purpose; It's not important to Nina in the slightest. Nina's Logic: - Rena carried the Blue Sky Sapphire - Sergay liked Rena...so if Arika carries the Blue Sky Sapphire... I mean, even if she did take that Arika is suppose to be the Queen, it doesn't change the fact that Sergay may still LIKE Arika. That is what's important to Nina.END EDIT

[Iron Maw]

....*falls over* ... fingers...numb... and you know, this post probably didn't help with anything except to confuse even more... :heh:



Nah, your completely right. I'm really surprised that some people couldn't foreseen Nina exploding the the way she did Arika when the truth came out, especially with Nagi manipulating her. Geez, Sunrise has done nothing short of hammering it into our heads during most of her screentime. It hardly came out of nowhere.

[monstert]

Uh actually if you look at it, the school IS seperate of Windbloom. It's situated way up there in the hills away from the city. So if I was attacking the city full force it wouldn't be hard to avoid damaging the school.

That and the school HAS to be independent. I thought this was obvious but I guess people need some explanation. This is a school that sends little girls to be the generals and bodyguards of various countries and their armies.

You'd think it's appropiate for a school like that to be in the least involved in the politics of Windbloom? It's like the Jedi Council in Star Wars being intertwined in the politics of the Old Republic to the point where the Jedi, who are suppose to be peacekeepers, became generals and soldiers for the Republic's own interest whether they like it or not. The school has to be unbias as much as possible since their the ones supplying soldiers to various countries that could ignite into warfare like Romulus and Remus.

That's why they have a council governing the school from various countires, Mashiro doesn't have total authority over them. Garderobe is still in the vicinity of Windbloom. All I'm saying is why shouldn't they destroy a weapon that could be, and was, targeted at their school. It's one thing to go out of your way and interfere at a far away place. But to go destroy something that's a possible threat to you shouldn't be a cause for alarm. Especially when the opposing group is an independent group without any formal ties to other nations. The act of destroying such a weapon shouldn't be viewed as Garderobe catering to Windbloom at the expense of another member nation of the Council. Therefore it shouldn't really matter if the school decides to attack the weapon.

[studiocode]

If Windbloom was attacked and the Otome had to sit back and do nothing because of some treaty then that is perfectly plausible; however, I considered this an attack on Guarderobe which was why I found their inactivity puzzling. I can understand how those of you who considered it an attack just on Windbloom were accepting of their inactivity.

You guys wouldn't consider that an attack on Guarderobe? Those were Otome that were fired upon by that cannon - Arika Yamato, Nina Zala, and their friends were attacked. I'm sure some may have even died. You don't think they could have responded on the spot to such an attack? I don't think any treaty would prevent them from self defense in the event of an attack.

[Tempest35]

You guys wouldn't consider that an attack on Guarderobe? Those were Otome that were fired upon by that cannon - Arika Yamato, Nina Zala, and their friends were attacked. I'm sure some may have even died. You don't think they could have responded on the spot to such an attack? I don't think any treaty would prevent them from self defense in the event of an attack.

Which part of the 'attack' are you refering to - the second shot?

If it's the second shot, I hold that Natsuki wanted to get her kids out. Even when Mashiro did give Natsuki permission for Garderobe to act within Windbloom's domain, Natsuki made it clear that her first objective was to get the kids to safety and back at Garderobe before she initiated any sort of counterattack. As much as I love a good throw-down, getting kids out of the fightzone would top my priority list no matter what.

[Iron Maw]

Garderobe is still in the vicinity of Windbloom. All I'm saying is why shouldn't they destroy a weapon that could be, and was, targeted at their school. It's one thing to go out of your way and interfere at a far away place. But to go destroy something that's a possible threat to you shouldn't be a cause for alarm. Especially when the opposing group is an independent group without any formal ties to other nations. The act of destroying such a weapon shouldn't be viewed as Garderobe catering to Windbloom at the expense of another member nation of the Council. Therefore it shouldn't really matter if the school decides to attack the weapon.

Schwartz doesn't to destroy Garderobe, otherwise they wouldn't have blow up the Sand Port and Arena first instead Garderobe. Schwartz wants Gaderobe technology too. Smith and Nagi also isn't stupid enough to bulid a Cannon on top of Caslte if Natsuki and Shizuru could easily destroy it. Smith have to have protection of some sort before attempt something as blunt as that, and that something is the Wind Treaty which limits what Garderobe can and can't do.

It wasn't any different in Aries(?) when they had need Yukino permission to fight Aswald back in Episode 10.

[monstert]

Schwartz doesn't to destroy Garderobe, otherwise they wouldn't have blow up the Sand Port and Arena first instead Garderobe. Schwartz wants Gaderobe technology too. Smith and Nagi also isn't stupid enough to bulid a Cannon on top of Caslte if Natsuki and Shizuru could easily destroy it. Smith have to have protection of some sort before attempt something as blunt as that, and that something is the Wind Treaty. which limits what Garderobe can and can't do.

It wasn't any different in Aries(?) when they had need Yukino permission to fight Aswald back in Episode 10. Well, I'm not saying they're trying to destroy Garderobe, but they did attack in its vicinity. And that last attack surely was an attack at the school itself. The danger could've spread quickly, possibly endangering the students. And what exactly does the treaty state about such incident regarding independent parties? I'm just wondering because I can't believe the treaty would limit the school from possibly protecting itself, even if such an action may be to the benefit of a particular nation.

[Iron Maw]

Well, I'm not saying they're trying to destroy Garderobe, but they did attack in its vicinity. And that last attack surely was an attack at the school itself.

Again, Schwartz (with Aswald) has attacked Windbloom before and Garderobe did nothing to help so, not Garderobe talking direct action isn't unusal.

The danger could've spread quickly, possibly endangering the students. And what exactly does the treaty state about such incident regarding independent parties? I'm just wondering because I can't believe the treaty would limit the school from possibly protecting itself, even if such an action may be to the benefit of a particular nation.

I'm quite sure Natsuki was well aware of this which is why she pleaded with Mashiro to fight in Windbloom, but they still have rules and regulations they have to follow through if they don't want Wars to start again. Natsuki in one of episode mentions how fragile the existing peace due to growing tension between countries, the whole Remus and Romulus Issue is proof this since they were ready to bust out they respective Otome at each after the first sign of trouble. So Natsuki has to becareful on how plans her moves.

[monstert]

Again, Schwartz (with Aswald) has attacked Windbloom before and Garderobe did nothing to help so, not Garderobe talking direct action isn't unusal. Are you talking about the flashback incident with Rena? Because I've always thought of it as more of an inclusive incident than the current situation. I'm quite sure Natsuki was well aware of this which is why she pleaded with Mashiro to fight in Windbloom, but they still have rules and regulations they have to follow through if they don't want Wars to start again. Natsuki in one of episode mentions how fragile the existing peace due to growing tension between countries, the whole Remus and Romulus Issue is proof this since they were ready to bust out they respective Otome at each after the first sign of trouble. So Natsuki has to becareful on how plans her moves. That's about the problems that exist between countries, not about the actions of an independent group. So I was wondering if the noninterfering clause of the treaty only affects matters beteen two member nations, not matters regarding Aswald/Schwarz.

[Iron Maw]

Are you talking about the flashback incident with Rena? Because I've always thought of it as more of an inclusive incident than the current situation.

Yeah I am, but I don't see situation is much different now then 14 years ago as Schwartz (especially with Aswald) are just as much of a threat back then as they were now. Also considering how often the students visit Windbloom (with or without permission) they would have been in just as much danger then.

That's about the problems that exist between countries, not about the actions of an independent group. So I was wondering if the noninterfering clause of the treaty only affects matters beteen two member nations, not matters regarding Aswald/Schwarz.

Natsuki in Episode 1 had stated that they couldn't do anything to Simth or, Schwartz as long as Treaty was still effective. Smith is likely safe in Windbloom from Garderobe if his business doesn't involve Garderobe, unless Windbloom or, Garderobe request/give aid to each other. This unlike Aswald who bring fight directly with Garderobe.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

If Windbloom was attacked and the Otome had to sit back and do nothing because of some treaty then that is perfectly plausible; however, I considered this an attack on Guarderobe which was why I found their inactivity puzzling. I can understand how those of you who considered it an attack just on Windbloom were accepting of their inactivity.


Define inactivity.

They were NOT inactive, the moment they regrouped they were getting ready to move out; if you didn't notice the 3 pearls were already geared and Natsuki was gonna invoke the clause to allow them to engage Schwarz. Unfortunately Aswald arrived. If you don't understand watch the episode again where Smith comments on Aswald. Aswald was tricked for a reason.



You guys wouldn't consider that an attack on Guarderobe? Those were Otome that were fired upon by that cannon - Arika Yamato, Nina Zala, and their friends were attacked. I'm sure some may have even died. You don't think they could have responded on the spot to such an attack? I don't think any treaty would prevent them from self defense in the event of an attack.

Ok first off, Natsuki is a headmaster and along with Shizuru is one of the columns. It means they serve the school and the school ONLY. They pledge to defend the school. That also goes for the students if you hadn't noticed.

As such, their highest priority is the SAFETY of the students. That means getting them back to the school. That's why she released the safeties because they needed the robes to evac. That and 2nd priority were the civilians. Unlike Schwarz, they have people to worry about and they took advantage of that. As Arika told Mashiro, they barely made it out alive. Had Natsuki not ordered the evac they'd all be dead right now.

That's about the problems that exist between countries, not about the actions of an independent group. So I was wondering if the noninterfering clause of the treaty only affects matters beteen two member nations, not matters regarding Aswald/Schwarz.

Yeah I've already answered that, read post 504.


By the time everyone returned back to the school Natsuki was already getting ready to move out and invoke the treaty that was concealling them and that's when Aswald attacked.

[Starks]

I think we just proved that Rena is the Canon Woman... Here's some evidence. LOOK CLOSELY.

SEE THE SCAR ON HER WAIST?http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/7442/bscap01486sz.jpg

[vree999]

I think we just proved that Rena is the Canon Woman... Here's some evidence. LOOK CLOSELY.

SEE THE SCAR ON HER WAIST?http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/7442/bscap01486sz.jpg

Could the "scar" just be a shadow? Hmm... :eyebrow:
I really hope Aoi's not the next to die a horrible horrible death :uhoh:

Really looking forward to the next ep....c'mon more revelations!

[Starks]

Could the "scar" just be a shadow? Hmm... :eyebrow:
I really hope Aoi's not the next to die a horrible horrible death :uhoh:

Really looking forward to the next ep....c'mon more revelations!There is no way that could be a shadow... That came from a 600MB raw. The screencap does not lie.

[monstert]

Yeah I am, but I don't see situation is much different now then 14 years ago as Schwartz (especially with Aswald) are just as much of a threat back then as they were now. Also considering how often the students visit Windbloom (with or without permission) they would have been in just as much danger then. First, that attack was strictly around the palace ground itself? Second, there was no weapon that could target at long range distance like in this episode, which could target the school. Natsuki in Episode 1 had stated that they couldn't do anything to Simth or, Schwartz as long as Treaty was still effective. Smith is likely safe in Windbloom from Garderobe if his business doesn't involve Garderobe, unless Windbloom or, Garderobe request/give aid to each other. This unlike Aswald who bring fight directly with Garderobe. Yeah I've already answered that, read post 504.


By the time everyone returned back to the school Natsuki was already getting ready to move out and invoke the treaty that was concealling them and that's when Aswald attacked. Ok then, (man that treaty sucks) now my question is why would she condone Shizuru and Akane interfering then and not now? She must know of Schwarz's intention so the least she could do was to destroy the weapon, if nothing else. But because she didn't do so, we only get to see her materialize for a few seconds.:mad:

[Mirtual]

Could the "scar" just be a shadow? Hmm... :eyebrow:
I really hope Aoi's not the next to die a horrible horrible death :uhoh:

Really looking forward to the next ep....c'mon more revelations!
But still looks like a shadow to me. You don't expect Rena to defeat a cyborg and a whole army without the power of an otome, do you? She is dead. End of story.

[Preston]

And they also have long established Nina's character as an obedient daughter who would do anything her father tells her. We're supposed to believe that she would go against him and attack his rescue party with the enemy? That contradicts her character's attitude.

We're supposed to believe that Nina would attack Arika and kill Ers over something so trivial? Excuse him for asking for some rationality. Also, it takes something really incredible to force somebody into a homicidal rage. "Father, you're paying her tuition?! Nooooooooo..." And Nina's quote was something along the lines of, "Ever since you showed up he has treated me different! Die!" She really did attack Arika out of a poorly construed jealous rage which had no basis. I don't buy it at all. It's absurd and illogical. This episode gets 1/10 for me because it probably killed the entire show.

What the hell? Seriously? It reinforces her character. She does what Nagi says because he has essentially placed Sergei's well-being on her actions. The way she sees it, if she doesn't do what he says, something bad is going to happen to Sergei. It's prefectly in character, and I fail to see how you manage to fail seeing this simple fact that has been re-inforced over and over. Just look out for a Nina character review in the next few days, and it will probably explain it for you.

Right.. and now to read the rest of the posts here.

[Mirtual]

As for why Natsuki and Shizuru didn't materialize at the first shot, Natsuki only activated everyone's GEMs in order to get them out of Windbloom. Natsuki's first priority is her students and Shizuru is bound by Pillar statutes not to materialize in another country due to the regulations - even to take out a potentially dangerous weapon that could be used against Garderobe. The point is that it was Windbloom's castle - that's officially Windbloom territory. The only action Natsuki could have taken she did - get her girls outta there. They were going into special wartime proceedures when Aswald came to play. Occuping the two Pillars was what Schwartz wanted Aswald to do while they 'EMP'ed Garderobe - it was a brillant tatic that worked - not an action that happened because Natsuki or Shizuru were too 'dumbfounded' to react to it.

Natsuki can't materialize unless the school is in DIRECT danger. It's not like she didn't WANT to take out that gun tower, hell it was dangerous - she just couldn't. And they had NO idea that Schwartz had a special EMP to knock out Shinso's relay to their GEMs. Either Natsuki herself or Shizuru could have withstood a direct hit from that cannon and blocked it - they probably weren't too worried about that itself. As for the Otome treaty and all its stipulations - hey they're there already. There is a difference between reading about politics, knowing about politics and being immersed in politics. Desicions made by Natsuki do not only affect her any more - being the political figure head of Garderobe places immense pressure on her. A desicion to materialize and take out the cannon just after the first shot might have saved Garderobe from invasion and the 'EMP', but what of Windbloom and the reprecussions/aftermath?
The Otome only look after themselves and write off any actions taken in other countries that could 'endanger' them? What in the world could endanger an Otome? They destroy a castle that had nothing to do with them - only because they saw it as a 'threat'. It's kinda like how some of the RL nations view the US's 'policing actions'.
The other countries would have ripped into Natsuki for it, despite her intentions - you saw how the representatives were when Shizuru performed against the first Slave in ep 1. One's 'intentions' mean little or squat in politics. She could have dragged the school down and sullied the supposedly impeccable reputation that the Otome uphold. Natsuki, as Headmaster, has the duty of upholding Garderobe as a beacon of light to the world - the 'good guys.' If you are the 'good guy', sometimes you have to get beaten up to prove that yes, you ARE the good guy. If you are held to a higher standard than everyone else, you have to act accordingly, even if it means taking flak for things beyond your control - it's called responsibility.

Can't agree, she used her Robe against the slave in the city in Ep 01 inside the city of Windbloom.

Oh yeah, the 'Evil Nina' thing - She's 15 years old for goodness sake and it's called 'over-reacting'. I know that you've never EVER overreacted to something that was very small in your life before - oh no, NEVER...:p
And no, you are NOT in her position so you don't know how she was feeling at the time.
Seeing that your foster father dropped a hankerchief that your friend/roommate/rival made to thank her benefactor wouldn't make YOU react to strike out in a rage to kill her. Sure, it shocked the hell out of her and peeved her off a bit as well.
But Nina didn't leap at Arika for that. Remember, Nagi toyed with Sergay using words for a good 45 seconds before contracting Nina as his Otome. Nagi only asked AFTER he brought reasonable doubt in her heart that Sergay may have actually feelings for Arika - that's why he protected Arika from Nagi's plan. THAT is what made Nina go over the edge - the fact that Sergay didn't answer to Nagi's claim that he may like Arika.
NOW Nina has an 'excuse' to attack Arika. The one that she loves may love her biggest rival. With Arika being Rena's 'successor' in Nina's mind, it's even more so since she KNOWs that Sergay had a thing for Rena - its a double whammy. Even though her father's crush is no more - the 'successor' to that woman is also making her father act 'strange' as well, not to mention drawing attention away from her.
It might not make YOU attack in a jealous rage but also remember - Sergay is Nina's weak spot. Apply just a slight amount of pressure and you'll get a very strong reaction from Nina. She even teared up in front of Arika at the thought of Sergay and Arika having something between them.
That and all, Nina's, like most young girls in a 'Mai-' series, have very askew views on what 'love' is.

And while Nina did technically 'kill' Ers-chan, she did not murder her. Erstin put her Slave between them on purpose in a split second. Being mad with rage, all Nina saw was something blocking her path to her target and slashed through it - only afterward did she remember/realize that it was Erstin's Slave.

Even if she is 15, she has the power to take down countries. I think "overreacting" should be treated a little diffrent here.
And if Erstin wouldn't have blocked her path she might have killed Arika.
Same goes for Arika. Completely dumb they crash into each other without paying attention to the "normal beings" around them.
How come only mental instable characters gain great strengh in anime?

[Preston]

Preston, I know how defensive you are of Nina, but please read my post. I have nothing against her, and prior to her magical evil transformation thought quite highly of her. I just don't enjoy Sunrise dragging her character into the depths in such a contrived manner. If they wanted to make her evil, fine--think of a better way. The evidence you speak of does not support Nina killing people because she feels like it.

Also, you are the last person who should be lecturing people about English comprehension. Feel free to continue with the petty insults though, they all go to the same place.

Hmm, you appear to not get it. Don't worry, I won't attempt to explain it to you any further. Yet again, a flaw of the internet - no tone of voice. I won't explain that either, just incase.

Oh yes, and you seemed to have missed the fact I was defending the series and not (just?) Nina.. ah well.

Oh, and about the cannon.. you expect everyone to get it together in the few seconds between blasts to destroy it?? It's like, the London Eye transforming into a super weapon and destroying parliment in a matter of seconds, and expecting the (imaginary) military base next door to react in time to bring the thing down? I think everyone was shocked about the huge undetected infilitration AND the fact that a mushroom cloud just rose over the horizon where the weapon fired.

Even if she is 15, she has the power to take down countries. I think "overreacting" should be treated a little diffrent here.
And if Erstin wouldn't have blocked her path she might have killed Arika.
Same goes for Arika. Completely dumb they crash into each other without paying attention to the "normal beings" around them.
How come only mental instable characters gain great strengh in anime?

Good question. To make it interesting? Nina is mentally unstable because of the way she was brought up and treated, due in no small part to having to live unloved and unwanted on the streets until age 9, only to be taken in by the first person to show her any love. Arika is the way she is also because she was brought up this way, she loves her friends, and such a break in friendship - Nina suddenly killing Erstin - even if it could be called an accident - drove her beyond clear thought and reason. I'd like anyone here to imagine themselves in either Nina or Arika's shoes here, and try to say they would not have gone ballistic. In one case, you life, your very life, the life you had after being adopted just fell apart in your mind over a very tiny period of time. In the other case, your (best/joint-best?) friend was just killed in front of your eyes in what ammounted to a simple childish rage.

[Shinobi]

Just watched it, jigga what??!!

Here comes the payoff, non-stop sweetness for the next two months!

27 pages of posts, less than week after the ep came out, wow.

I hope it doesn't get as angsty as some of the episodes of Mai-HiMe, but that tension and anger I'm totally down with. I wonder what's gonna interrupt Arika and Nina's fight. Obviously something has to, they can't kill each other at ep. 18 ;)

[Hideki Keiji]

Seems funny that in all the argument about Schwarz being a 'terrorist' type organization, no one seems to remember that they were acting as Artai's army at that moment, so it was, as far as could be said, an attack by Artai against Windbloom. Furthermore, could they even see who was operating the cannon? Until the device was used to disable the robes, Schwarz had done nothing to Garderobe itself.

[Iron Maw]

First, that attack was strictly around the palace ground itself? Second, there was no weapon that could target at long range distance like in this episode, which could target the school.

I'm not completely sure if it was just at palace grounds but, there were was Slaves everywhere along with fire. You right there were was no Cannon there that time but Schwartzcould of attacked Garderobe (though in a different fashion) regardless especially with Aswald's willing help that time.


Ok then, (man that treaty sucks)
Yeah, tell Natsuki about.:p

now my question is why would she condone Shizuru and Akane interfering then and not now? She must know of Schwarz's intention so the least she could do was to destroy the weapon, if nothing else. But because she didn't do so, we only get to see her materialize for a few seconds.:mad:

Natsuki ordered Shizuru and Akane to fight the Slave since Nina had gotten them involved anyway, by forming a contact with Mashiro and attacking the Slave. She was later punished by being put into a holding Cell. The Concil afterwords gave Natsuki hell about it.

Can't agree, she used her Robe against the slave in the city in Ep 01 inside the city of Windbloom.

Similar to what I said above, Shizuru didn't have a choice as Nina had already acted without permission.

I'd like anyone here to imagine themselves in either Nina or Arika's shoes here, and try to say they would not have gone ballistic. In one case, you life, your very life, the life you had after being adopted just fell apart in your mind over a very tiny period of time. In the other case, your (best/joint-best?) friend was just killed in front of your eyes in what ammounted to a simple childish rage.

MH Mai's would probably be able sympathize with Arika, and MH Shiho's with Nina.

And It's only natural that if a loved where killed in front someone they would want to seek revenge. They people much older then Arika or, Nina lived they life just this way.

[Tempest35]

Can't agree, she used her Robe against the slave in the city in Ep 01 inside the city of Windbloom.
Because they found justifiable cause to be there - the Princess and only heir to Windbloom was in danger - so much so that she made an interim contract with a Coral. It's like a royal asking help from grunt with only basic training armed with only a shoulder-mounted rocket launcher against an Apache Helicopter. If the grunt calls for backup, you think they're going to send in another grunt to help? Hell no, :nono: they're sending in two F-16s to deal with that Apache.


Even if she is 15, she has the power to take down countries. I think "overreacting" should be treated a little diffrent here.
And if Erstin wouldn't have blocked her path she might have killed Arika.
Same goes for Arika. Completely dumb they crash into each other without paying attention to the "normal beings" around them.
How come only mental instable characters gain great strengh in anime?

I have to chuckle - treated how so - that Sergay 'grounds' her? I mean c'mon...:eyebrow: I can see it now...

Sergay: *after big boom* "NINA~! YOU'RE GROUNDED FOR 3 MONTHS! JUST LOOK WHAT YOU DID TO WINDBLOOM! YOU'RE WORKING TO PAY MASHIRO BACK FOR THIS - THIS IS ALSO COMING OUT OF YOUR ALLOWANCE! YOU TOO ARIKA!! BOTH YOU YOUNG LADIES ARE IN BIG TROUBLE!!!"

Natsuki: "Major Wong...those are MY girls...I'll handle this...*takes a deep breath* BOTH OF YOU ARE GROUNDED!!!"
Let's remember that this is an anime and the plots aren't voted on by consensus of a Parliment for accurate protrayal of RL world issues...artistic license is a given here.

Erstin made a choice to step infront of the Mack Truck and she got hit - cause and effect.
It's well known that anger induces 'tunnel vision' as well - you focus on your target and only that - nearly oblivious to everything around you. It might be dumb but you can't call this 'unrealistic'. No matter how powerful someone gets, they are still human and they have emotions that can be triggered. This is a core reality in both real life and in anime.

[Matrim]

Since the discussion is centred around plotholes, I can't help but wonder why do you miss some of the most glaring ones.
How the hell did Swartz manage to build such an enormous cannon instead of building extension without anyone noticing? If they can infiltrate so easily they could have kidnapped Mashiro whenever they felt like it.
How did Nao and Natsuki espape so easily? These Shwarz fellows sure seem like a combination of great intelligence followed by periods during which they act like complete morons. :heh:

Ok then, (man that treaty sucks)


You realised that just now? The entire Otome system is so contrived and stupid that even Arika seems to understand that. :heh:

[PastPrime]

But still looks like a shadow to me. You don't expect Rena to defeat a cyborg and a whole army without the power of an otome, do you? She is dead. End of story.
Exactly how do you know she is dead. Not everyone who loses a battle dies. And no one in the series has ever said that she was dead. The impression that I get is that, like the Princess, they don't know what happened to her.

[scribbly]

Exactly how do you know she is dead. Not everyone who loses a battle dies. And no one in the series has ever said that she was dead. The impression that I get is that, like the Princess, they don't know what happened to her.

but but baa-chan said she's still alive (assuming arika's rena's daughter)... and if baa chan knows... that makes arika's upbringing slightly questionable

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Seems funny that in all the argument about Schwarz being a 'terrorist' type organization, no one seems to remember that they were acting as Artai's army at that moment, so it was, as far as could be said, an attack by Artai against Windbloom.

We know that but do the characters know that Schwarz was invovled with Artai at the moment? This isn't about what we say, it's what is seen from the perspective of the characters because we the audience are bias.

You realised that just now? The entire Otome system is so contrived and stupid that even Arika seems to understand that.

Which everyone on this board has been trying to explain :heh: But I can see some people are still choosing to ignore that fact which the show has been showing

Can't agree, she used her Robe against the slave in the city in Ep 01 inside the city of Windbloom.

:eyebrow:

How the hell did Swartz manage to build such an enormous cannon instead of building extension without anyone noticing? If they can infiltrate so easily they could have kidnapped Mashiro whenever they felt like it.
How did Nao and Natsuki espape so easily? These Shwarz fellows sure seem like a combination of great intelligence followed by periods during which they act like complete morons.

I would assume that Bask character was in charge of the operation. Since the castle was in heavy reconstruction there's no doubt there were limited access to the castle itself. That and we have the coverup on the castle so the only people who know what's happening inside are the ones doing the actual work and I assume by that time Schwarz had taken over.

[monstert]

You realised that just now? The entire Otome system is so contrived and stupid that even Arika seems to understand that. :heh: I thought that treaty only applies when two or more countries are fighting each other, that the school shouldn't interfere since it technically provides Otome for all the countries involved. But if the school can't interfere when an independent party is attacking that just sucks. I mean, what's wrong with that, Windbloom obviously has ties to Garderobe beyond the normal circumstances already. But oh well, I can't pick up/remember everything they say, you know.

[Mirtual]

Exactly how do you know she is dead. Not everyone who loses a battle dies. And no one in the series has ever said that she was dead. The impression that I get is that, like the Princess, they don't know what happened to her.
we have been watching the same anime, right?
Mai-Otome, Episode 01--> 01:00 to 01:14
Rena without Otome abilites, surrounded by an ARMY of slaves and at least three cyborgs with a deep wound in her abdomen.
It was not clearly stated, but there is no way she could have escaped there alive. The only thing that might stand a chance against a cyborg (there were at least three as I mentioned) would be an Otome. And somehow that bruning castle and all that running and shouting in combination with the fact that the kingdom got taken down tells me that there was none.



I did read the other answers to my post. I still have something more to say to that, but I am rally tired now, so I'll edit it later.

[Matrim]

I thought that treaty only applies when two or more countries are fighting each other, that the school shouldn't interfere since it technically provides Otome for all the countries involved.

I think you are right though, in the Doremi subs Mashiro clearly gives the Otomes permission to fight on her territory without mentioning any conditions or treaties. We have to remember that Mashiro is a bit dumb but I still view this as a plothole. :)
I was talking in general about the Otome system, not just this treaty.

[ArchDragon]

Rena without Otome abilites, surrounded by an ARMY of slaves and at least three cyborgs with a deep wound in her abdomen.
It was not clearly stated, but there is no way she could have escaped there alive. The only thing that might stand a chance against a cyborg (there were at least three as I mentioned) would be an Otome. And somehow that bruning castle and all that running and shouting in combination with the fact that the kingdom got taken down tells me that there was none.
See, Rena was never a threat to the cyborgs without her Otome powers.
So they have no reason to outright kill her.

They might've captured her to be tortured or used as an experimental subject later on.
And at the time, Aswad and Schwarz seemed to be working together as one group.

[Xellos-_^]

I think you are right though, in the Doremi subs Mashiro clearly gives the Otomes permission to fight on her territory without mentioning any conditions or treaties. We have to remember that Mashiro is a bit dumb but I still view this as a plothole. :)
I was talking in general about the Otome system, not just this treaty.

When was this? If you are talking about episode 1, Mashiro was more worry about her life being in danger then a treaty(she wasn't aware of) and Nina doesn't seem to be aware of it either.
We were shown that in the Episode when Arika and Erstin was lost in the Aires and Mashiro wanted the Otomes to rescue them form Aswald. Yukino if any of you were paying attentation explain why the School can't becuase of the treaty requiring at least THREE council member to give permission before the school can interferred within the events of another country EVEN if that country had already given permission.

[studiocode]

What the hell? Seriously? It reinforces her character. She does what Nagi says because he has essentially placed Sergei's well-being on her actions. The way she sees it, if she doesn't do what he says, something bad is going to happen to Sergei. It's prefectly in character, and I fail to see how you manage to fail seeing this simple fact that has been re-inforced over and over. Just look out for a Nina character review in the next few days, and it will probably explain it for you.

Right.. and now to read the rest of the posts here.

You're wrong and let me explain why. Nina is a calm, cool, and levelheaded person. She's always in control and that's why she's #1 in her class. She thinks things out logically as evidenced in all the past skirmishes. Knowing this, I'm simply asking for a rational reason for her to go and commit homicide and go against the people her father (to whom she is love-sickingly devoted) is protecting.

Yes Nina vs. Arika was hinted at since episode one, nobody is disputing that. But did the writers have to sacrifice rationale to reach their destination? Look man, I like Nina too. She's my favorite character. But homicide over less than convincing motives does NOT reinforce her character; instead, it makes her look like a Kaede psycho. I don't buy that Nina is the type of psycho who kills people at the drop of a hat so I'm calling this a plothole. Dispute me further if you will, but you are totally wrong if you can't see that Mai Otome is full of contrived situations that abandon all logic in order to reach a predetermined destination.

[Matrim]

When was this? If you are talking about episode 1, Mashiro was more worry about her life being in danger then a treaty(she wasn't aware of) and Nina doesn't seem to be aware of it either.

This episode, number 17 - in the first minute of it to be precise. Natsuki asks for permission to fight on Windbloom territory which is granted. I don't think this treaty means much when there is an attack, because if that's the case every thug can kill an Otome when she is outside Garderobe. Even if only defensive action is permted - destroying the huge cannon is a defensive measure for Garderobe itself, why should they be so sure that Schwarz won't use it to destroy the school? Or maybe the scriptwriters just forgot about the treaty. :heh:

[Iron Maw]

I think you are right though, in the Doremi subs Mashiro clearly gives the Otomes permission to fight on her territory without mentioning any conditions or treaties. We have to remember that Mashiro is a bit dumb but I still view this as a plothole. :)

Yukino gave Garderobe the same permission to fight Aswald in her country as well in Episode 10. This seems to point out that the Treaty can temporaly lefted to use Garderobe's Otomes to fight insurgents like Schwartz and Aswald if that country is willing to let them.

I would assume that Bask character was in charge of the operation. Since the castle was in heavy reconstruction there's no doubt there were limited access to the castle itself. That and we have the coverup on the castle so the only people who know what's happening inside are the ones doing the actual work and I assume by that time Schwarz had taken over.

In some of the Episodes before Episode 17 it was shown stuff that was covered by black Cloth being moved into the Castle at night, not to as mention that Scwhartz Agents have shown to part of the construction staff (like in Ep 7), citizenly, and high ranking officials. Let's not forget that Mashiro has ignoring her duties and moping in her room for god-knows how long which allowed Scwhartz easy access Palace anyway.

As for the how Nao able to escape easily;
1. She wasn't wearing a Garderobe uniform.
2. She knows the ins and outs of Windbloom she since her Gang runs the streets.
3. She had already left before Scwhartz started fighting and rounding up the Otomes (plus she sneaks out Garderobe on a normaly basis anyway:heh:).
4. Before she met Natsuki Artai had already appeared and where casing out most of Scwhartz's Force's which made it easier for her to leave.


You're wrong and let me explain why. Nina is a calm, cool, and levelheaded person. She's always in control and that's why she's #1 in her class. She thinks things out logically as evidenced in all the past skirmishes. Knowing this, I'm simply asking for a rational reason for her to go and commit homicide and go against the people her father (to whom she is love-sickingly devoted) is protecting.

Have you been watching the same series? The cool and levelheaded persona is just a front. I pointed out my post thay back in Episode 3 she was ready to kill Arika in Battle Arena because her her irrationaly fear losing Sergay to Arika due her conncetion to Rena. Then look at Episode 10 when broke down she was ready rush off and find Sergay despite danger of Aswald lurking around, in which Shizuru had literally slap some sense into her to pull herself together. Then in Episode 11 she overreacted when she thought Sergay had forgotten her birthday due to Rena, and she she even stripped down her clothes and tried to jump into a fast move canal when she lost her birthday present (which was the necklace) and she probably would have drowned, and let's not forget that SHE IS IN LOVE WITH FOSTER FATHER!

Yes Nina vs. Arika was hinted at since episode one, nobody is disputing that. But did the writers have to sacrifice rationale to reach their destination? Look man, I like Nina too. She's my favorite character. But homicide over less than convincing motives does NOT reinforce her character; instead, it makes her look like a Kaede psycho. I don't buy that Nina is the type of psycho who kills people at the drop of a hat so I'm calling this a plothole. Dispute me further if you will, but you are totally wrong if you can't see that Mai Otome is full of contrived situations that abandon all logic in order to reach a predetermined destination.

I really suggest you rewatch the series again to be specific Ep- 1-13.

[Matrim]

I can somehow accept Nao's escape but Natsuki's one was a bit too much, the Schwarz soldiers were meters away from her when she ran for it. I guess they all went for Shizuru because they were her fans and wanted an autograph. :heh:

[Xellos-_^]

Yukino gave Garderobe the same permission to fight Aswald in her country as well in Episode 10. This seems to point out that the Treaty can temporaly lefted to use Garderobe's Otomes to fight insurgents like Schwartz and Aswald if that country is willing to let them.


Actually, Garderobe need permission form Yukino AND two other council members, Mashiro and Nagi before they can engage Aswald.

Matrim: I don't have the ep with so i will have to check later but that could be either a plot hole or a translation error. I appreciate how fast doremi get things out and all their hardwork but it has been shown more then once thier transaltion has been a 100% sccurate. So i would wait and see what the other translate it as.

studiocode : Are we watching the same Mai-otome :eyebrow: From the beginning Nina has been shown as emotionally fragile. Despite the strong facade she puts up front, Nina is a emotional cripple as far as Sergay is concern. She has been that way since the very beginning, it is very rational for her go crazy against Arika when it concerns Sergay, especialy when you consider all the insecurity she has regarding her relationship with Sergay.

Edit: i need a proof reader.

[Matrim]

studiocode : Are we watching the same Mai-otome From the Nina has been shown as emotionally fragile. Despite the strong facade she puts up front Nina is a emotional cripple as far as Sergay is concern. She has been up that since the very beginning. it is very rational for her go crazy against Arika when it concerns Arika when consider all the insecurity she has regarding her relationship with Sergay.

I have to agree with that. Plus, Nagi picked his moment ot give her that evil GEM superbly. Now she is Darth Nina or Mikoto if we are to compare with HiME. I guess in the end the GEM wil lbe broken and she ill be good again (if Sunrise choose the road of the cliches yet again).

As for the plothole - I still think that Mashiro being dumb as usual is as good an explanation as a translation error.

[Preston]

You're wrong and let me explain why. Nina is a calm, cool, and levelheaded person. She's always in control and that's why she's #1 in her class. She thinks things out logically as evidenced in all the past skirmishes. Knowing this, I'm simply asking for a rational reason for her to go and commit homicide and go against the people her father (to whom she is love-sickingly devoted) is protecting.

I'm sorry, but I laughed aloud when I read that. I may be offending my favourite character, but hell, Nina is anything but calm, cool or levelheaded. I should know.. I spent a lot of time trying to justify the way she way in the past on these boards, past the common comment 'loner' and 'father complex' that were thrown around then. I think people are beginning to realise there is much more to her than that. There is a whole goldmine of mental instability and trauma in this one..

[ArchDragon]

I have to agree with that. Plus, Nagi picked his moment ot give her that evil GEM superbly. Now she is Darth Nina or Mikoto if we are to compare with HiME. I guess in the end the GEM wil lbe broken and she ill be good again (if Sunrise choose the road of the cliches yet again).
She's more like Shiho with Mikoto's powers.

Her motivation is nearly identical to Shiho's, but her fighting style and relationship with the main cast is closer to Mikoto's.

[Iron Maw]

I can somehow accept Nao's escape but Natsuki's one was a bit too much, the Schwarz soldiers were meters away from her when she ran for it. I guess they all went for Shizuru because they were her fans and wanted an autograph. :heh:

Well Shizuru did beat all Scwhartz Agents that went at her with bare-hands, so who says Natsuki didn't do the same thing, she's a Pillar like Shizuru after all.

[Guido]

We can safely conclude that school is over for Arika, Nina, and the rest of the Garderobe students.

[Matrim]

Well Shizuru did beat all Scwhartz Agents that went at her with bare-hands, so who says Natsuki didn't do the same thing, she's a Pillar like Shizuru after all.

What if she is a Pillar? She was without her robe and there were Slaves walking around, sure she beat the crap out of them with her bare hands. Yeah, right... And even if she did that could have shown it but I guess that would be the first rule of Mai Otome which is "Don't let Natsuki do anything important". :heh:

Her motivation is nearly identical to Shiho's, but her fighting style and relationship with the main cast is closer to Mikoto's.

Exactly.

[Pazu]

What if she is a Pillar? She was without her robe and there were Slaves walking around, sure she beat the crap out of them with her bare hands. Yeah, right... And even if she did that could have shown it but I guess that would be the first rule of Mai Otome which is "Don't let Natsuki do anything important". :heh:

:D
But maybe they have some secret passages there. She didn't have to fight. Just run fast and hide. And then go out in another part of the city. :)

[SoldierOfDarkness]

The Otomes are trained in hand-to-hand combat. I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with their Otome powers. The powers just increase their capability but nevertheless a well-trained otome without her powers can still hold her own. Since Shizuru is a pillar(one of the best), she should be a pretty darn good fighter.

I mean look how Nina took out those guards.

[Tempest35]

Let's not forget how Rena charged at Rad even though she was no longer an Otome - NO one charges a combat cyborg that fearlessly unless they got SOME skills.

And Natsuki was fighting as a Pillar empty-handed - no Elemental, no nothing. She might not have Sergay's 'Steel Body':p, but she can move when she wants to.

She and Mai must have had some amazing 'sparring sessions' when they were younger...^^ I want the hidden videos.

[studiocode]

I'm sorry, but I laughed aloud when I read that. I may be offending my favourite character, but hell, Nina is anything but calm, cool or levelheaded. I should know.. I spent a lot of time trying to justify the way she way in the past on these boards, past the common comment 'loner' and 'father complex' that were thrown around then. I think people are beginning to realise there is much more to her than that. There is a whole goldmine of mental instability and trauma in this one..

Who commits murder without any rational motivation? That was either a contrived plothole to get her to finally fight with Arika or otherwise Nina is a psycho. That would be the only explanation for such behavior. However, I don't think Nina is a psycho considering she has been perfectly normal up until now. I don't remember her killing that kid when he took her locket. She had more cause to attack him than she did to attack in episode 17. It was poor writing man. The writers wanted her to fight Arika, we all knew that, but they didn't have to be lazy and make it a sketchy scenario. That was a plothole. Bad writing. Horrible episode.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Who commits murder without any rational motivation? That was either a contrived plothole to get her to finally fight with Arika or otherwise Nina is a psycho.

That was NOT murder. Do you even know what the definition of Murder is? She did not murder Erstin.

However, I don't think Nina is a psycho considering she has been perfectly normal up until now.

Yes you "think." But you have to see it from another point of view. This is a girl with an electra complex (Since she's practically in love with her father even though he's not her biological one). And she fights for his approval and affection, note episode 1, Nina didn't fight just for Mashiro, she was fighting to make her father proud.

Enter Rena; when Nina saw a picture of Rena, she was jealous and probably even more when Sergay told her that she was his dream.

Now enter Arika; Nina's life is shattered(Not literally of course) when she finds the two growing more and more closer together.
When Arika called Sergay by his name, Nina was a little hearbroken and shocked pretty bad.
Nina practically broke when she found out her birthday was the same date as Arika's, Rena's daughter.


I don't remember her killing that kid when he took her locket.

Because she sees herself in that child. Why do you think she even approached the kid in the first place?:eyebrow: That and the kid isn't exactly fighting for Sergay's affections, that's Nina's most important thing in the world which the locket doesn't even come close to.


She had more cause to attack him than she did to attack in episode 17.

Your saying that it's more reasonable for an individual to kill a child whose stealing for food than a person whose killing the one person whose stealing the love of her life's affection?:eyebrow:

I have already pointed this already but I'll say it again, this has been building up time and time. I'm sorry if you haven't noticed how Nina cracks (NOt extreme of course) when someone grabs Sergay's attention but that's what the show has been showing.

Then we add the revelation that Sergay had been supporting Arika, again like previously, she cracks. Nagi takes advantage of this and pushes her over the limit.

It was poor writing man. The writers wanted her to fight Arika, we all knew that, but they didn't have to be lazy and make it a sketchy scenario. That was a plothole. Bad writing. Horrible episode.

You just see it that way. But when you look at previous episodes, it all adds up.

[studiocode]

That was NOT murder. Do you even know what the definition of Murder is? She did not murder Erstin.


:heh: Do you even know what the definition of muder is? It was not premeditated; however, Nina murdered Erstin and would have murdered Arika if Ers hadn't tried to protect Arika.


Yes you "think." But you have to see it from another point of view. This is a girl with an electra complex (Since she's practically in love with her father even though he's not her biological one). And she fights for his approval and affection, note episode 1, Nina didn't fight just for Mashiro, she was fighting to make her father proud.

Exactly, she loves her father so much yet she attacks his rescue party so easily? There was no reason for her to go homicidal in that situation. It was contrived. It was advantagous for the writers who had been building toward that destination and finally reached it through very little effort.



Enter Rena; when Nina saw a picture of Rena, she was jealous and probably even more when Sergay told her that she was his dream.

Now enter Arika; Nina's life is shattered(Not literally of course) when she finds the two growing more and more closer together.
When Arika called Sergay by his name, Nina was a little hearbroken and shocked pretty bad.
Nina practically broke when she found out her birthday was the same date as Arika's, Rena's daughter.

Sergay was able to explain this to Nina and assuage her fears. There is no cause for Nina to suspect Sergay x Arika, aside from the simple fact that there isn't even a Sergay x Arika! Arika has been cold towards Sergay since he rejected her. To have Nina go homicidal because "she thinks Arika is taking Sergay from her" is weak. There was no evidence for that and we're supposed to believe that Nina would go Darth Vader on her friends out of her delusional paranoia? She wasn't trying to make Arika a sandwich with those knives...She was going to kill Arika. Over what? The plot was razor thin.

Because she sees herself in that child. Why do you think she even approached the kid in the first place?:eyebrow: That and the kid isn't exactly fighting for Sergay's affections, that's Nina's most important thing in the world which the locket doesn't even come close to.



Your saying that it's more reasonable for an individual to kill a child whose stealing for food than a person whose killing the one person whose stealing the love of her life's affection?:eyebrow:

No, Preston thought that it was "laughable" that I find Nina to be a cool and level-headed person. Not only do I stand by that, I would go so far as to call Nina robotic she is so cool and calculating. In his rebuttal to my suggestion that Nina was too rational a person to commit murder against her friends over a petty insecurity he told me that no Nina is not level-headed and full of trauma (so he thinks she is psychotic and that it wasn't a plothole? he was unclear here). In response I wrote that if she is so apt to kill somebody over trifling matter then why didn't she kill that kid? If Nina isn't so calm and level-headed why did she try to talk that kid down? And why didn't she punish him when he threw her locket into the river (fell into a boat)? He "stole something precious to her." You see, even when somebody "steals something precious to her" Nina is rational and calm. Her past behavior proves my point. If she had killed that kid everybody would have sad "that's messed up," but she essentially murders Ers for the same exact reason. So why isn't that messed up?


I have already pointed this already but I'll say it again, this has been building up time and time. I'm sorry if you haven't noticed how Nina cracks (NOt extreme of course) when someone grabs Sergay's attention but that's what the show has been showing.

Then we add the revelation that Sergay had been supporting Arika, again like previously, she cracks. Nagi takes advantage of this and pushes her over the limit.

Apparently I'm in the minority on this board because everyone is ok with Nina "going Darth Vader" on the Mai Otome universe and the motivation is unimportant. I guess as long as the Arika vs. Nina goal was reached the means to which we arrived there is immaterial. I concede arguing over this any further since Darth Otome is here and I might as well get used to it.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Do you even know what the definition of muder is? It was not premeditated; however, Nina murdered Erstin and would have murdered Arika if Ers hadn't tried to protect Arika.

Apparently you don't know the defintion

the crime of killing another person deliberately

What Nina did was manslaughter but not murder, however, it was Erstin's choice to do so. You can argue all you want about Arika this and that but that still doesn't fall in murder. If a police officer was shooting a thug and another office chose to jump into line, does that make him a murderer? In this case it's friendly fire since Erstin is technically on the same side as Nina.

Other than that, Arika and Mashiro are the enemy. Do you know what that means? Did you think Nagi was just ordering NIna to play pattycake with Arika? This is Artai vs. Windbloom, remember how wars go in this case? They have two otomes deal it out. What do we have here? Two otomes duking it out. Artai is attempting to take Windbloom, Arika would have just as much justification to fight back even if Erstin wasn't killed.

Plus, if you want it that way, Shizuru and Arika are murderers too because they killed those Schwarz guys since those guys chose to just as much as Erstin chose to stop Nina.

Exactly, she loves her father so much yet she attacks his rescue party so easily? There was no reason for her to go homicidal in that situation. It was contrived. It was advantagous for the writers who had been building toward that destination and finally reached it through very little effort.

Rescue party?

Smith wasn't aiming at Sergay at all, he was aiming at Mashiro. Sergay was just there, Nagi wasn't even ordering Nina to kill him.

That and Sergay betrayed Nagi, therefore he is his enemy but he doesn't even order for a kill.

Sergay was able to explain this to Nina and assuage her fears. There is no cause for Nina to suspect Sergay x Arika, aside from the simple fact that there isn't even a Sergay x Arika! Arika has been cold towards Sergay since he rejected her. To have Nina go homicidal because "she thinks Arika is taking Sergay from her" is weak. There was no evidence for that and we're supposed to believe that Nina would go Darth Vader on her friends out of her delusional paranoia? She wasn't trying to make Arika a sandwich with those knives...She was going to kill Arika. Over what? The plot was razor thin.

Sigh, I really don't want to keep explaining this to you. Ever heard of a lie or delusions?

Now, this is from Nina's point of view. Okay so there were several close calls between Arika and Sergay, luckily, they were able to sooth her fears as you said. However, that doesn't change the fact that they happened anyways. And then even so more and more keeps popping up and reopening those old wounds.

No, Preston thought that it was "laughable" that I find Nina to be a cool and level-headed person.

hardly, deep down inside she's a fragile girl. I thought this was obvious when things started heating up between Arika and Sergay. She acts tough but she really isn't. Nagi touched her weak point. Do you know what her weak point is?

In response I wrote that if she is so apt to kill somebody over trifling matter then why didn't she kill that kid? If Nina isn't so calm and level-headed why did she try to talk that kid down? And why didn't she punish him when he threw her locket into the river (fell into a boat)? He "stole something precious to her." You see, even when somebody "steals something precious to her" Nina is rational and calm. Her past behavior proves my point. If she had killed that kid everybody would have sad "that's messed up," but she essentially murders Ers for the same exact reason. So why isn't that messed up?


Because she sees herself in that child. Why do you think she even approached the kid in the first place? That and the kid isn't exactly fighting for Sergay's affections, that's Nina's most important thing in the world which the locket doesn't even come close to.

Again that's not murder.

Besides, if you wish to stick with that argument, one can simply argue that Nina didn't want the pendant to get damaged. One wrong move and bye bye pendant. The kid threw the pendant in order to escape and grab Nina's attention elsewhere. Again, it's not the same situation as in 17, 17 had Nagi manipulating Sergay's words, not to mention the kid wasn't stealing Sergay from her. BTW isn't the kid a girl?

Apparently I'm in the minority on this board because everyone is ok with Nina "going Darth Vader" on the Mai Otome universe and the motivation is unimportant. I guess as long as the Arika vs. Nina goal was reached the means to which we arrived there is immaterial. I concede arguing over this any further since Darth Otome is here and I might as well get used to it.

Well people just like complaining and will always nitpick the little things.

If there's one person to blame however that is Sergay himself for handling the situation poorly. Especially that part when he tells her why he adopted her in the first place.

[Sokolov]

I still think Nina's reaction is completely justifiable. How can you use normal logic to analyze this anyway? They are special girls wielding power beyond imagination for a "normal person," put into a situation where they have to choose between love and country. They are trained to serve some Master whom they do not even get to choose (from what I understand). Personally, I find Sergay's entire display to be pretty shameful. Perhaps he did the best he could under the circumstances but... *shakes his head*.

If you want to be so logical, the whole premise is a crock anyway, it's an anime =P

Besides, Nina is not perfect, and that's OK with me.

[studiocode]

Are you deliberately being obtuse? I could only get through the first few sentences before I relented. I hate it when people quote dictionary definitions as gospel regardless of context. Irrelevant of whether she killed with aforethought, Nina murdered Ers in what the statutory connotation would define as 2nd degree murder.

Yes, I would characterize the small group which Sergay is trying to save from an enemy forces as his rescue party. Are you being disputive just for the sake of being pugnacious? My characterization of Arika, Mashiro, Mashiro's maid, and Sergay as a rescue party is trivial and insignificant in the course of observations and analysis.

And Sokolov, I've already stated that I don't want the most probably event as that would be both bland and silly. I just don't want to see the character running in front of an oncoming train instead of just jumping off the tracks. Don't try to sell me that garbage :heh:. Know what I mean man?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I still think Nina's reaction is completely justifiable. How can you use normal logic to analyze this anyway? They are special girls wielding power beyond imagination for a "normal person," put into a situation where they have to choose between love and country. They are trained to serve some Master whom they do not even get to choose (from what I understand). Personally, I find Sergay's entire display to be pretty shameful. Perhaps he did the best he could under the circumstances but... *shakes his head*.

If you want to be so logical, the whole premise is a crock anyway, it's an anime =P
If doing his best is shameful, why even bother giving Nina the benefit of the doubt?

I certainly don't blame Nina for over-reacting, for she IS still a child. But the Sergay punchup really should stop. He is one of the most mature, responsible, caring, and just, young male characters in anime. To expect him to do anything more than his very best, which is what he is already doing, is outrageous.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Are you deliberately being obtuse? I could only get through the first few sentences before I relented. I hate it when people quote dictionary definitions as gospel regardless of context. Irrelevant of whether she killed with aforethought, Nina murdered Ers in what the statutory connotation would define as 2nd degree murder.

Oh I get it now. You should've told me you had your own vocabulary.

Sorry but I'd take official definitions over other people.

BTW just so were clear

Artai - Nina, Nagi, Smith, Erstin, Sergay(Traitor)

Windbloom - Arika, Mashiro

Therefore friendly fire and the fact that Mashiro is pretty much Nagi's enemy at that point, therefore, Nina and Arika are enemies. Did you think Nagi was just there to play pattycake with Mashiro? And when she refuses did you think he was just gonna beg?

This is Otome, how they fight wars/battles/disputes is to have two otomes duke it out. Do you know what happened in 17?


Yes, I would characterize the small group which Sergay is trying to save from an enemy forces as his rescue party. Are you being disputive just for the sake of being pugnacious? My characterization of Arika, Mashiro, Mashiro's maid, and Sergay as a rescue party is trivial and insignificant in the course of observations and analysis.

Seems more like your the one. How exactly did they rescue him?

But anyways since you like to fight with your own manipulation of definitions I'll leave it at that. In the end, you'll be back anyways to complain about the next episodes if your nitpicking every detail. If you don't, then well good job (I mean if you stop watching the anime itself.)

[studiocode]

Your posts are incoherent so it's taxing to try and wade through them but I get the vague sense that you are trying to counter something I said, although I'm unclear as to what. I do not claim to be a progenitor of the definition for 2nd degree murder nor will I relent as to provide a definition for a ubiquitous term such a murder. I find it totally ridiculous that you post a definition to support your incorrect stance and then ignore the fact that I gave you the information that this was 2nd degree murder.

Allow me to restate my disputes with this episode which led to my entrance in this thread: I don't buy Nina's reason for attacking Arika. I think it was contrived for the sake of reaching a Nina vs. Arika destination and all rationale was abandoned for this purpose.

Any dispute with me lies with this disposition and not on your ability to interpret definitions or my characterization of scenes.

And allow me to explain ONCE MORE why I chose to draw a parallel between the scene with the street urchin and the scene with Nina vs. Arika:

The street urchin stole something precious to Nina and she responded in a cool and calm manner. The street urchin for all intents and purposes at that point in time destroyed that precious thing and Nina responded in a cool and calm manner.

Some would argue that Arika "stole something precious to Nina" and that justifies homicide. By this logic, would Nina have been correct in going Darth Vader on that street urchin? I for one found it puzzling that she responded in a way that contradicts her past behavior.

Edit:

Seems more like your the one. How exactly did they rescue him?

Ah, I see, I knew we must have had a miscommunication somewhere. I meant "rescue party" in the sense that Sergay is leading a rescue. Hence "rescue party." I did not imply that they rescued him. I think we both might be misinterpreting alot of what the other is trying to communicate and getting frustrated in the process.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Fine I'll try to reply in a kind manner then.

Your posts are incoherent so it's taxing to try and wade through them but I get the vague sense that you are trying to counter somethign I said, although I'm unclear as to what. I do not claim to be a progenitor of the definition for 2nd degree murder nor will I relent as to provide a definition for a ubiquitous term such a murder. I find it totally ridiculous that you post a definition to support your incorrect stance and then ignore the fact that I gave you the information that this was 2nd degree murder.

Except in the context of the show it should be declared friendly fire.

Allow me to restate my disputes with this episode which led to my entrance in this thread: I don't buy Nina's reason for attacking Arika. I think it was contrived for the sake of reaching a Nina vs. Arika destination and all rationale was abandoned for this purpose.

How about following Nagi's orders? Would you accept that?

Afterall, like Nina said, "your not fair father, you told me I was here to become Nagi's otome"

Not to mention becoming an Otome is basically selling your soul to your master :heh:

The street urchin stole something precious to Nina and she responded in a cool and calm manner. The street urchin for all intents and purposes at that point in time destroyed that precious thing and Nina responded in a cool and calm manner.

Maybe I should summarize what happened in the episode.
Urchin stole it, Nina, mad runs after her. After corning her, she begs it back (Do remember that Nina understands why and she sees herself in the kid), kid throws it away (the urchin did NOT destroy it), thing falls in the boat and Nina tries to go after it. By that time, kid is gone.

So no it wasn't destroyed.

Some would argue that Arika "stole something precious to Nina" and that justifies homicide. By this logic, would Nina have been correct in going Darth Vader on that street urchin?

Well other than the fact that Nagi and Mashiro are enemies by now their basically at war with each other according to the show's context.

And just a question for you;

Who do you think Nina cares more about and would rather sacrifice?

Sergay or the pendant?

I would assume the pendant would fall into an even more precious category if Sergay was dead.

[studiocode]

Yeah, your assessment is spot on. I suppose if I want to continue watching the show I will have to concede to the idea that "Sergay wanted this life for Nina." This seems to justify all her actions after that: killing Ers, attacking Arika...I'm still not buying that Nina would just go postal but whatever, I just have to accept it because it's done and over. I wish the plot was a lot less contrived.

[PastPrime]

Yeah, your assessment is spot on. I suppose if I want to continue watching the show I will have to concede to the idea that "Sergay wanted this life for Nina." This seems to justify all her actions after that: killing Ers, attacking Arika...I'm still not buying that Nina would just go postal but whatever, I just have to accept it because it's done and over. I wish the plot was a lot less contrived.
I think that the Ultimate Black Diamond might have had something to do with it, much as the HiME Star caused the HiME to do things they would not normaly have done.

[Iron Maw]

I think that the Ultimate Black Diamond might have had something to do with it, much as the HiME Star caused the HiME to do things they would not normaly have done.

Considering that Nina pulled a lethal technique on Arikaj ust because of her supposed relation to Rena back in Episode 3, I doubt that.

I wish the plot was a lot less contrived.

It was never contrived to begin with. All the signs of Nina's unstable mentality towards Arika were there in plain sight, your just choosing what you want to see.

[Asianknight82]

Wow, there sure is alot of denial about Nina doing what she did on her own violation. Shes upset over her discovery of Sergey and Arika, and that pain activated the diamonds. Its that simple, theres no super evil jewels that controls her mind, shes doing everything out of jealousy and hatred. Busting up the jewels wont make her back to the way she was, it'll just rid her of her powers.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Wow, there sure is alot of denial about Nina doing what she did on her own violation. Shes upset over her discovery of Sergey and Arika, and that pain activated the diamonds. Its that simple, theres no super evil jewels that controls her mind, shes doing everything out of jealousy and hatred. Busting up the jewels wont make her back to the way she was, it'll just rid her of her powers.

True, the diamond simply reacted with her which again begs the question exactly what are these gems and their capability?

Yeah, your assessment is spot on. I suppose if I want to continue watching the show I will have to concede to the idea that "Sergay wanted this life for Nina." This seems to justify all her actions after that: killing Ers, attacking Arika...I'm still not buying that Nina would just go postal but whatever, I just have to accept it because it's done and over.

Well, that and add up everything that has happened ever since then. Like I said, it reopened wounds that still didn't heal completely.

Everytime she was reassured something new just happens.

I wish the plot was a lot less contrived.

Welcome to the world of entertainment, this is an anime, not desperate housewives, if your trying to bring realism here and there, you'll end up hating everything.

[Matrim]

Its that simple, theres no super evil jewels that controls her mind, shes doing everything out of jealousy and hatred. Busting up the jewels wont make her back to the way she was, it'll just rid her of her powers.

Dunno about that, seems to me that this diamond serves as an amplifier of her hatred so to speak and if it is not broken she will remain Darth Nina. Not that this is bad, anyone trying to kill Arika deserves to be supported. :)

Welcome to the world of entertainment, this is an anime, not desperate housewives, if your trying to bring realism here and there, you'll end up hating everything.

So that does that mean you will accept any plothole the scriptwriters come up with? It might be anime but I don't like when the scritwriters take the viewers for fools and introduce impossible and illogical twists and other plotholes. I have said it before before but I will reiterate - there is a difference between a series being entertainingly non-realistic and being ludicrously contrived non-realistic and Otome is leaning too much towards the latter category, if you ask me.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

So that does that mean you will accept any plothole the scriptwriters come up with? It might be anime but I don't like when the scritwriters take the viewers for fools and introduce impossible and illogical twists and other plotholes. I have said it before before but I will reiterate - there is a difference between a series being entertainingly non-realistic and being ludicrously contrived non-realistic and Otome is leaning too much towards the latter category, if you ask me.

No it means I won't throw a tanturm over it and cry day and night about it. GSD got so back IMO I just stopped watching the show altogether after ~25ish.

And everyone has their own opinions about such things and people in general terms like to complain so of course they'll lean towards the latter category otherwise how will they get a chance to complain and whine? BTW please list the plotholes because I'm not getting a clear picture of what's everyone screaming about other than Nina which of course has been already explained so many times yet people ignore it.

Besides if it's as serious and your still watching then in the end you lose because your still watching the show itself.

[Eclipze]

Dunno about that, seems to me that this diamond serves as an amplifier of her hatred so to speak and if it is not broken she will remain Darth Nina. Not that this is bad, anyone trying to kill Arika deserves to be supported.
Actually, its the other way round: Nina's emotion amplified the power of the Ultimate Black Gem. (no really, but at least it activated the gems from the pendent)

Really, whats with people saying that destroying the gem being the only way to make Nina *good* again? Plus, Nina killing Erstin's slave was unintentional.

So that does that mean you will accept any plothole the scriptwriters come up with? It might be anime but I don't like when the scritwriters take the viewers for fools and introduce impossible and illogical twists and other plotholes. I have said it before before but I will reiterate - there is a difference between a series being entertainingly non-realistic and being ludicrously contrived non-realistic and Otome is leaning too much towards the latter category, if you ask me.
Um...what? Nina going berserk and going after Arika's life is unrealistic? They build up the pain and emotion from episode 1, and now you're saying that it was not justified for Nina "suddenly" hate Arika?:eyebrow:

Clearly, I didnt know that human beings and their actions are predictable. Of course, unless you're talking about someother "plothole" that wasn't discussed besides the Nina going nuts one in the last few posts...

Plus, you seem to be accepting any plothole just for the sake of seeing a character you dislike (namely Arika) getting herself beaten up by someone. So, you can do that and we cant?:hmm:

[Matrim]

I said that Nina attacking trasformation is not a plothole at all, I don't see why you are asking me about that.

BTW please list the plotholes because I'm not getting a clear picture of what's everyone screaming about other than Nina which of course has been already explained so many times yet people ignore it.

Check out my previous posts in this thread, I have been doing just that. As for the other episodes - I am too lazy to do it now plus it might be considered off-topic and my posts will be deleted yet again.

Really, whats with people saying that destroying the gem being the only way to make Nina *good* again? Plus, Nina killing Erstin's slave was unintentional.

That's just a prediction, relax. And I have never said she killed anyone intentionally.


Plus, you seem to be accepting any plothole just for the sake of seeing a character you dislike (namely Arika) getting herself beaten up by someone.

Well, it would be better if she is beaten without any plotholes getting in the way of my enjoyment but really any method will do for the achievement of this goal. :)

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Check out my previous posts in this thread, I have been doing just that. As for the other episodes - I am too lazy to do it now plus it might be considered off-topic and my posts will be deleted yet again.


Well then I'm too lazy to check them out anyways :p

[Sokolov]

If doing his best is shameful, why even bother giving Nina the benefit of the doubt?

I certainly don't blame Nina for over-reacting, for she IS still a child. But the Sergay punchup really should stop. He is one of the most mature, responsible, caring, and just, young male characters in anime. To expect him to do anything more than his very best, which is what he is already doing, is outrageous.

HIS best. Best is a subjective term. It differs from individual to individual and situation to situation. Maybe he thought he was doing his best, but I still find many of his choices to be questionable (I can elaborate if you want me to).

I don't think he sleeps well at night. And he shouldn't, in my opinion - that's all I am saying.

(Btw, I like that many anime series have enough depth that we can actually have this kind of discussion.)

[ArchDragon]

HIS best. Best is a subjective term. It differs from individual to individual and situation to situation. Maybe he thought he was doing his best, but I still find many of his choices to be questionable (I can elaborate if you want me to).
Obviously, there are things that I would handle differently.
Though I can't vouch that the way I do things will make the end result better.

But so far, I don't think he's done anything that falls out of normal human reasoning.

I don't think he sleeps well at night. And he shouldn't, in my opinion - that's all I am saying.
If you have a boss like Nagi, neither will you.

IMO that's his biggest mistake, working for the wrong ruler.

[PastPrime]

Why don't the people who seem to be watching only to complain and find plotholes, real or frequently imagined, start a plothole thread where they can complain all they want without making the episode threads almost unusable.

[Catgirls]

Why don't the people who seem to be watching only to complain and find plotholes, real or frequently imagined, start a plothole thread where they can complain all they want without making the episode threads almost unusable.That's a good idea.

[Catgirls]

I'm going to lock this thread up for a few days (it will re-open) to clear out all the series whiners and complainers. I think it's a good idea to start a separate thread to complain about real or imagined My-Otome plot holes (or even the possible LACK of a plot). If nobody else starts it, I'll start it.

Call it "My-Otome Plot Holes" or something of the sort. Cheers. :)

[Morisato]

This image seemed rather familiar to me:
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/1816/btb6gq.th.jpg (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=btb6gq.jpg)

... and here is why....
http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/1299/btb21yk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Sunrise doesn't seem very creative... :rolleyes:
jesus man, how many ways can you draw two people lookig at each other?

Nothing is "creative" anymore, everybody just borrows ideas from other people and mix it in with their own.

[Starks]

*Spits out cereal.*

I LOL'D.

[yankervitch]

Was just rewatching this episode on youtube when I noticed this (under a spoiler tag to not wonk anyone's page out):

http://homepage.mac.com/rabow/mukden.jpg

Which got me thinking about the Mukden Incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_Incident). To make a long story short: in WWII, the Japanese sabotaged part of their own railway system in China and offered the sabotage as "proof" that they needed to move in to "stabilize" the region.

Given that Ho, Wong, etc. are pretty recognizable Chinese names, as well as the flag that resembles China's modern flag - it seems like this is a reverse Mukden incident.

Something just smells fishy about all this. Just something to think about...