Chapter 213 [Manga] Discussion [Archive]

hi no ken Jebus

2006-02-01, 23:02

:heh: Been awhile anyway...
213 Trifle

Keigo comes home and his sister mizuho is pissed. She then sees ikkaku and yumichika. Keigo says the reason he was late was because he ran into them and he was wondering if they could stay. She agrees and Keigo is shocked and tells her to think it over and not to decide so fast. Scene switch to urahara's where ururu is being treated by tessai. Scene switch to ichigo and co where inoue is treating rukia. Scene change to aizen and co. Grimmjow is being yelled at by Tousen who is furious. Aizen on the other hand doesn't really care and then Tousen grabs Grimmjow and requests permission to execute him. They exchange words about Tousen's love for justice and order. Suddenly Tousen cuts off Grimmjow's left arm and proceeds to burn it with some demon magic, needless to say Grimmjow wasn't going to take that abuse but Aizen stops him and he leaves. A little later Ichimaru and Aizen are talking about the failure of grimmjow and losing 5 arankaru. Aizen says no problem they were all the lowest of the low gillian class. Then he says the plan is slightly deviated but if he can complete his vastrode class espadas there won't be anyone to stand in his way

M4rauder

2006-02-02, 01:30

Sounds like a good chapter. :D Can't wait to see Ichimaru again.

Seras

2006-02-02, 02:57

no teaser pictures this week?

Bronwen Stx

2006-02-02, 03:23

Holy crap! Their the lower class gillian? I can hardly imagine what the highest class would be. :twitch: :twitch: At this rate, I can also hardly imagine how the shinigami can beat them.

Ichigo really needs to utilized and control his powers better because if they're having a hard time against lower class gillian of all things, the rest of the shinigami needs help.

Sazelyt

2006-02-02, 03:48

As the ranking of the class increases, the number should decrease. I believe the first 10 are espadas. If they are going to create more powerful ones, I guess there should be less than that (3-5). For the time being, we can consider, one for Ichigo, one for Hiraku (the other hybrid -assuming he is the strongest of those), one for ishida. These are the strange powered ones that can logically power up and compete with the more powerful ones. We don't know how powerful Ishida can become, but he competed equally against a captain (although receiving significant damage), so with his father's guidance he can go above that, reaching the level of the newer ones.

Other espadas can be dealt by other captains. And the other non-soul society member captains (isshin,urahara, yoruichi) can deal with aizen-tousen-gin trio. We'll see who will fight against whom. But, first training.

The Small One

2006-02-02, 05:33

I think I missed something: Wasn't Ikkaku near dying after his fight? Of course nobody really expected him to, but shouldn't he still be wounded heavily?

Sazelyt

2006-02-02, 05:53

I think I missed something: Wasn't Ikkaku near dying after his fight? Of course nobody really expected him to, but shouldn't he still be wounded heavily? If his damages are similar to the damages Kenpaichi has received against two other captains, he should be ok. Or in the worst case, if the damages are similar to Ichigo's (he received in soul society many times - but continue to stand up for some time), again he should be ok.

Even if he is hurt, I guess he can bear it for some time and cover them to prevent others see them. But, since there is no spoiler image, we cannot be sure of.

OMchan

2006-02-02, 11:21

Biswa

2006-02-02, 12:07

Gin.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8448/gin9mm.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gin9mm.jpg)

You can also see Tousen and Grimmjow (without his arm?) on the other side of the page.

Awesome. I figured he wouldn't change his look a lot like Aizen or Tousen did, but i wouldn't like it much if he did. His new getup looks pretty cool on him either way :O.

P.S. - I still don't like Tousen. His sense of justice is so great, to prove it, he gets to rip off grimmjow's arm.

Also, im confused. Does that mean that grimmjow wasn't an espada? or is he just a crappy and unperfected espada while the other 5 were gilians. FOr a second i kind of thought that even Grimmjow was a gillian, but that would be pretty creepy.

bluegarden

2006-02-02, 14:05

great chapter

yay!! gin is back

can't wait for the reunion between him and rangiku.*waves Ginxrangiku banner*

Kona

2006-02-02, 19:08

I find it quite wierd that keigos sister likes ikkaku aww how cute. Poor ururu >.<, well that was a cute moment when urahara held her hand.I heard grimmjow was inspired by slipknot because KT likes them. Dam.. those vastroode are incomplete hmm.. i smell bankai. Tousen whats up man? Being a little hardcore eh? I really dont see a point of doing that because they probably have a self regenerating ability. Gin! was a cool appearance, i like how all 3 of em look now. I thought he would have some funky hair style but its the same ol crazy gin.

SuperKnuckles

2006-02-02, 20:19

Does anybody get the vibe that all the Arrancars' clothing looks like pajamas?

Bronwen Stx

2006-02-02, 20:33

Does anybody get the vibe that all the Arrancars' clothing looks like pajamas?

Hey, it looks fashionably good. :D Personally, I thought Gin looks like he's wearing a bath robe or something. :heh:

Sety

2006-02-02, 20:46

Also, im confused. Does that mean that grimmjow wasn't an espada? or is he just a crappy and unperfected espada while the other 5 were gilians. FOr a second i kind of thought that even Grimmjow was a gillian, but that would be pretty creepy.

No just see it this way.....uptil now Aizen confirms hes only been able to make Espada's out of Gillian's, Grimjoww is nothing more than a stronger than average grunt whos been made ridiculously powerful by the transformation......Aizen is still trying to make Shinigami's out of Vastrodes.

KuwabaraTheMan

2006-02-02, 21:12

Ikkaku and Keigo comic relief makes this chapter a win.

Ichimaru

2006-02-02, 21:50

Hope Gin kicks some ass

MobiuS

2006-02-02, 22:05

Does anybody get the vibe that all the Arrancars' clothing looks like pajamas?

Well its simply for coolness factor. Noone wants to get their asses kicked by uber demons in pajamas ... thats just straight pwnage. The only worse thing was if they were beating you in front of your mom with your fav song playing in the background ... >_>

Dual247

2006-02-03, 00:39

Aceboogy

2006-02-03, 01:11

I remember a few chapters back,
Is it possible that we've never seen an arrankar which was made from a Vastrode?? I mean just humor me for a second, why would the menos let Aizen do experiments on their strongest ranks? Hitsugaya said that they're 3 levels of menos: Gilian, ajucas and vastrode. I haven't read every shonen manga out but i do know that they NEVER jump from introducing the weakest (Gilian) straight to the introduction of the strongest (Vastrode).

I mean it's just me, but I don't want to jump to the conclusion that we're seeing fights against captin class menos, so early in a new arc.

I kinda guessed that the arrancar that we were seeing were mere gillians, but someone started getting their panties in a bunch about how arrancar are totally different....Blah Blah Blah........

Enough of me praising my insight......

Loved the chapter, can't wait to see what level the vizards truly are at, are they Vastrode level, or are they near or above ajucas.

emessen

2006-02-03, 01:14

my only problem with the chapter is the revelation that the 5 other arrancar besides Grimmjaw were Gilian...

thought Gilian's were the all huge dumbass look alike menos grande that Ichigo drove off earlier in the story

but when they released their zanpakutou to reveal their true hollow form they didnt look alike at all...

other than that a cool chapter... Tousen got an upgrade

I think I missed something: Wasn't Ikkaku near dying after his fight? Of course nobody really expected him to, but shouldn't he still be wounded heavily?

when we see him... Keigo's sister can see him... so he's in a gigai... guess he's healing in there?

could just be me, but on page 7, doesn't orihime looked like she's sad/jealous that ichigo cared for rukia so much, because maybe she loves him? have no clue, i can't tell a thing with all those japanese words :(

the fact that Orihime's got a huge thing for ichigo is very apparent since chapter 2 of the manga when she was introduced

it was downplayed in the anime

TwilightHack

2006-02-03, 01:58

All I have to say... Don't give up Orihime! We (at least I do) support you!

I thought this chapter was pretty interesting... the silence between battles...

carb

2006-02-03, 07:24

if ichigo's not interested in orihime, i'd be glad to take orihime's side!!!

anyway on to the topic:

well, considering the fact that vastroudes, according to toushiro, are above captain level, wouldn't it be dangerous for aizen to make hybrids out of vastrodes? because that would make them stronger than aizen or equal at the least i suppose..

and also what this chapter has done is to add another 50 or more chapters into the series. Not that it's bad, no. But you know, with the introduction of hybrid vastrodes, it had already sealed the fate of the 10 espadas rather quickly. And to think ichigo still has a long way to go before he could match grimjow equally and skill wise that is, without having to COMPLETELY rely upon his hollow side...

carb

2006-02-03, 07:28

oh yeah just an addition...sori..

this makes me think more and more that aizen is not the final enemy.. Ofcourse, before aizen could side with the hollows, he must have contacted the boss of the hollows.. however like all traitors in stories, we know their fate are not often pretty in that they eventually get a taste of their own medicine..

Wolcik

2006-02-03, 15:05

ok... so what about Chad, Tatsuki and Karin?

Orihime will have her time later, as the story is just to begin...
GrimJaw when meet once again by Ichigo will be a step to power for him, or 3 hits and down ;)

Gin must return to Rangiku

did I said before that there is still Vastorades to change? i don't remember
if there's less than 10 Vastorade who would waste them in incomplete change :P

Komataguri

2006-02-03, 15:11

I'm seeing hollows being organized like the Shinigami, with Vastrode captains, Espada Vice Captains, and arrancar gillian soldiers...

thats my prediction for the future.

Kinny Riddle

2006-02-03, 23:29

Wow, those that Renji and co beat only thanks to luck were Gillian Arrancars, Soul Society is in big trouble.

Seeing how Bankai Ichigo only managed a scratch on Grimjow, who is a Vastrode Arrancar, while Tousen managed to slice Grimjow's arm off with ease means that Tousen has received an upgrade as well. Seems like Vastrodes are rare in Hueco Mundo, Aizen is still gathering them to form the Espada.

And OMFG, Gin's new outfit is cool. :D

Good thing Ururu's still alive. (Must resist urge to ignore the fact her pyjamas is unbuttoned while being healed...URHRARA YOU PERV! lol )

Komataguri

2006-02-03, 23:41

Kinny Riddle

2006-02-04, 00:24

I don't recall it being stated anywhere that Grimjaw is a Vastrode?

Only that he is an espada, which is talked about in a totally seperate fashion from the vastrode
In the last page, Aizen said he needs a few more Vastrodes to complete his Espada "collection", so I don't see why Grimjow isn't a Vastrode.

notme

2006-02-04, 01:11

could just be me, but on page 7, doesn't orihime looked like she's sad/jealous that ichigo cared for rukia so much, because maybe she loves him? have no clue, i can't tell a thing with all those japanese words :(
It does kind of look like that, but M7's translation shows that she is not thinking that.

The sidebar says -
"I will become stronger--he who say such words was defeated. Even now, he still failed....to protect...."

So Orihime wasn't feeling jealous, she was merely understanding and relating to Ichigo's feelings.

:bow: Inoue

U<3Anime

2006-02-04, 04:19

wowhohoho i think Tousen overreacted a bit too much by chopping grimjaw's arm off.....:D Poor Grimjaw, i bet hes really pissed....Also i wonder what kinda of upgrades have aizen, gin and tousent received. Maybe they are already hybirds :cool:

Novarain

2006-02-04, 08:40

I think Aizen, Gin and Tousen have become hybrids... Tousen managed to cut off Grimjaww's arm without a sweat whereas Ichigo had such a hard time even scratching him... and remember that Ichigo without Bankai > Kempachi > Tousen...

I think Aizen can't create death/vastrodes cos vastrodes are supposed to be pure hollows. And besides, even if Aizen managed to do so he'll still trash anything that can SEE so i think he'll own them without breaking a sweat...

Komataguri

2006-02-04, 10:11

In the last page, Aizen said he needs a few more Vastrodes to complete his Espada "collection", so I don't see why Grimjow isn't a Vastrode.

What I read refered to the vastrodes and espada as two seperate entities, lets face it really...The espada are strong, but the vastarode are supposed to be stronger than captain level BEFORE becoming arrancar.

So there is no way Grimjaw is a vastorode.

Kinny Riddle

2006-02-04, 22:35

What I read refered to the vastrodes and espada as two seperate entities, lets face it really...The espada are strong, but they are supposed to be stronger than captain level BEFORE becoming arrancar.

So there is no way Grimjaw is a vastorode.
It should be rephrased as Menos and Espadas are different entities.
From what I have read, Espadas are the elite Arrancars.

Let us break it down so we can understand:
Hitsugaya said there are 3 Menos classes:
Vastrodes, Ajucas and Gillians, from strongest to weakest.
All three can become Arrancars with the Hougyoku. So there are:
Arrancar-Vastrodes, Arrancar-Ajucas, Arrancar-Gillians.

Once a Menos becomes an Arrancar, regardless of what Menos class it was, will already become stronger than a SS captain.

Of course, Vastrodes, being the strongest of them all, is potentially as strong as a SS captain BEFORE becoming an Arrancar. The Espadas are the 10 most elite of all the Arrancars, and I don't quite see Aizen choosing them from the Ajucas and Gillian bunch to make his Espada collection.

So, I don't quite get how you came to the conclusion that Grimjow isn't a Vastrode, he can't possibly be an Ajucas or Gillian. And KT has already introduced us to the three classes of Menoses. You seem to be implying a fourth when there hasn't been clues to it.

Komataguri

2006-02-04, 23:05

It should be rephrased as Menos and Espadas are different entities.
From what I have read, Espadas are the elite Arrancars.

Let us break it down so we can understand:
Hitsugaya said there are 3 Menos classes:
Vastrodes, Ajucas and Gillians, from strongest to weakest.
All three can become Arrancars with the Hougyoku. So there are:
Arrancar-Vastrodes, Arrancar-Ajucas, Arrancar-Gillians.

Once a Menos becomes an Arrancar, regardless of what Menos class it was, will already become stronger than a SS captain.

Of course, Vastrodes, being the strongest of them all, is potentially as strong as a SS captain BEFORE becoming an Arrancar. The Espadas are the 10 most elite of all the Arrancars, and I don't quite see Aizen choosing them from the Ajucas and Gillian bunch to make his Espada collection.

So, I don't quite get how you came to the conclusion that Grimjow isn't a Vastrode, he can't possibly be an Ajucas or Gillian. And KT has already introduced us to the three classes of Menoses. You seem to be implying a fourth when there hasn't been clues to it.

I just realized I misworded a few things in my previous post that fogged up what my intentions are.

clarified.

1.0.7.

2006-02-05, 03:06

i don't understand why the bad guy talks about justice and righteousness :>
that's bleach for you :>
man, these are only lower class gillians, and they're still in the process of turning a vastrode into the perfect espada... very scary prospect that.
how they depicted aizen was the highlight of the chapter for me. yeah sure he's the villain, but he's such a damn nice guy with his subortinates.. heck even i'd follow him :p

kagato3

2006-02-05, 03:12

Yes grimjaw is much too weak to be a Vastrode, he's a Ajucas at best. Remember all Menos are insanely powerfull, it would take a fully trianed vice capt. to even have a chance at defeating a Gillian. Remember that all the captians were shocked that Ichgo was able to hurt one. These are things they send whole squads after and they are the weakest.

carb

2006-02-05, 11:02

*ehem* grimjaw weak for a vastrode? i don't think so considering the fact that he pawned ichigo without breaking a sweat. and did you ever remember how ichigo pawned BK? Im not referin to the part where he became a hollow, but rather, he could have killed BK there ( when he stuck his zanpaktou up BK's throat ). And now you telling me that grimjaw is weak for a vastrode? anymore stronger grimjaw becomes, would be like telling KT to create a miraculous ending just so he could make ichigo win.

And don't forget, Grimjaw was still at his unreleased state...

Desti-Fate

2006-02-05, 12:33

I think Ichigo had quite the downturn of power after the SS arc. You can tell when he and Rukia went to fight one normal hollow, which gave Ichigo a fair bit of trouble. He's holding back the hollow, which distracts and weakens him.

And Ichimaru's new gear totally suits him. I bet he designed it himself. ;)

Komataguri

2006-02-05, 14:18

Ichigo has really been struggling with his inner hollow after SS, He's affraid it might come out again and cause trouble...thats why he ain't going all out like he did on the Captains in SS

soulfly

2006-02-06, 07:10

Komataguri

2006-02-06, 11:58

1. I think Tousen ripped Grimjaw's arm so easily because Grimjaw wasn't really expecting the attack, while Ichigo was hardly able to scratch Grimjaw because they're really fighting.

2. It seems that Keigo has a little spirit power as well, might be because he was near Ichigo all these while, the same result which when Chad and Orihime acquired theirs before.

3. Keigo's sis was just horny...lol!

Tell me about it, For a second I thought I was reading a H-Doujin and on the next page she was gonna strip her clothes off and drive head first into baldies crotch while screaming " Itadakimasu! "

Bedlam

2006-02-06, 15:02

What if Aizen.... is really a vastrode?

...hahahaha. what a twist that would be. He did say something along the lines of, "You don't know the real me, the Aizen you know never existed."

And the way they were talking, seems like their goal is to create a world where shinigamis and hollows exist together peacefully. Tousen was addressed as a unification official, right?

And I doubt that Grimmjaw is a vastrode. From the M7 translation, Aizen says, "Once we've assembled the vastrodes and perfected the espadas..." meaning to say, they're two different entities. I doubt it'd be very easy to convince creatures that are already potentially stronger than captains to undergo an experimental transformation. Just my guess, but... we haven't seen any vastrodes as of yet.

Imho, Espadas are just a more refined if not elite way of turning hollows into shinigami hybrids. I do not think they are of vastrode level before transformation.

In this light, I can see why Soul Society is so worried. The people watching the situation did take into account how they underestimated the power increase of even incomplete arankarus.

Tempestuousfury

2006-02-07, 01:59

I personally agree with the comment that ichigo was holding back. Though I would like to know what the black, inky color in his eye was (not sure if the eyes turned black when he became hollow-ichigo).

Just for clarification: what exactly does the hougyoku work? Granted, I might find the answer by rereading the manga, but I am somewhat confused as to how the removal of the hollows' masks and that device work out.

Also, when did ichigo get the chance to practice or even attempt on his own, the hollow-ichigo's attack (forgot the name--the black energy wave).

Another few questions: apparently ichigo is not as talented as ishida at sensing energy, but does that transfer over to kidou and other such abilities? If he is even remotely able to use kidou, why has he not learned how to do so yet? Is the aforementioned attack w/ or w/o bankai kidou, or just an unrefined burst of energy?

Also, someone mentioned ishida helping out ichigo and friends with the arrancar problem, but doesn't his dad gte him ot promise not to deal with shinigami?

Sorry for all the questions, I just thought that people on here would be willing to answer the half or so questions that are not chapter 213 related along with the comments that are.

voldy18

2006-02-07, 07:52

I personally agree with the comment that ichigo was holding back. Though I would like to know what the black, inky color in his eye was (not sure if the eyes turned black when he became hollow-ichigo).

Hollow-Ichigo has black eyes, therefore this was a sign that Ichigo's Hollow was slowly taking over.

Just for clarification: what exactly does the hougyoku work? Granted, I might find the answer by rereading the manga, but I am somewhat confused as to how the removal of the hollows' masks and that device work out.

That is as of yet still unknown.

Also, when did ichigo get the chance to practice or even attempt on his own, the hollow-ichigo's attack (forgot the name--the black energy wave).

It's called "Getsuga Tenshou". And I would expect that he didn't practice. Also he says that "the black getsuga tenshou is truly 'his' move", probably meaning that Ichigo hasn't really mastered it, otherwise Grimmjaw's wound wouldn't have been so shallow.

Another few questions: apparently ichigo is not as talented as ishida at sensing energy, but does that transfer over to kidou and other such abilities? If he is even remotely able to use kidou, why has he not learned how to do so yet? Is the aforementioned attack w/ or w/o bankai kidou, or just an unrefined burst of energy?

I think the problem is not so much that Ichigo has no talent, but rather that he's had no training. Ishida on the other hand has been trained since his childhood.
And how is Ichigo going to learn Kidou if nobody shows him how it actually works?

Also, someone mentioned ishida helping out ichigo and friends with the arrancar problem, but doesn't his dad gte him ot promise not to deal with shinigami?

Yes, but I doubt Ishida will just stand by while his friends are in danger. That would be quite heartless.