View Full Version : Soul Society's King ? (Character book information)
NoSanninWa
2006-02-08, 17:21
In the Bleach Character Book, they refer to a king that rules Soul Society. No name is given for him, just that Soul Society is ruled by him.
Character Book Info (http://inubros.net/bleach/log/2006/02/bleach-official_character_book_souls.html)
http://s01.imagehost.org/0509/Charbook-small.jpg (http://s01.imagehost.org/0509/Charbook-large.jpg)
Since we have never heard the existence of a king even mentioned in the course of the manga, I seriously wonder if that "king" really exists. Perhaps this he was killed ages ago. Perhaps when Aizen said that noone rules in heaven he was referring to the fact that the king's throne is empty.
This is all just speculation of course, but it does lead one to the amusing speculation that the real reason Ichigo is so ridiculously powerful is because he is descended from (or reincarnated from) the vanished King of Soul Society. Real? Who knows. It is just an amusing thought.
If someone could translate this picture, I would be grateful:
http://s01.imagehost.org/0509/SoulSocietyOrganization.gif
If anyone wants to comment with something that is only in the manga (you know what I mean), then make sure to use spoiler tags:
Manga r0x0r5
Bronwen Stx
2006-02-08, 17:25
XD Ooh...I haven't considered the idea that Ichigo might be the descendent of the missing King...:heh: and for some reason, I can totally see Isshin be that spoiled brat of a King that's beyond silly. And being this Bleach...:eyespin: I reckon our theories can't be that bizzare with what Kubo Tite have shown us.
But I'm somewhat convinced that Isshin, thus Ichigo is one of the five noble clans. The data book clearly says that 2 of the 4 have been mentioned, the Shiba clan used to be part of that before they fell.
The best political term to refer to the throne of SS would have been emperor.
After all, the SS bases the aristocracy on the ancient samurai feudalism.
However, if it was the author's choice then so "King" be it.
Kinny Riddle
2006-02-08, 20:34
The middle is the "Royal Family", divided into two branches.
The left is the Central 46, the right is the Royal Guard.
Under the Central 46 are, from left to right, Onmitsu Kidou, Kidoushuu and the Gotei 13.
There are five sub-divisions under the Onmitsu Kidou, the first sub-division is Keigun, while the fifth is the Inner Palace Guard (probably guarding Seireitei).
Most here no doubt knows about the Gotei 13, the 4th Division is the Medical Division, while the 12th Division is the R&D Division, which is further divided into the Communications Tech Research Dept and the Spiritual Power Measurement Research Dept.
Picture version completed: translations by Kinny Riddle^
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4296/bleachbooklist7zf.jpg
NoSanninWa
2006-02-08, 22:14
Nice! Now could someone please translate Onmitsu Kidou, Kidou Shuu and Keigun? Also, what are the 5 divisions under the Onmitsu Kidou called? (I think that the 13 squads of the Gotei 13 are obvious enough.)
Interesting thing about your translation is that it implies that there is a Royal Guard which does not answer to the Central 46... at least back when there was a Central 46.
Nice! Now could someone please translate Onmitsu Kidou, Kidou Shuu and Keigun? Also, what are the 5 divisions under the Onmitsu Kidou called? (I think that the 13 squads of the Gotei 13 are obvious enough.)
I'd translate it as "Covert Operations" (Onmitsu Kidou), "Punishment Forces" (Keigun) and "Demonarts Users" (Kidou Shuu)*, though I'm sure someone else can come up with a more accurate/impressive sounding translation. The 5 divisons in the diagram are simply numbered from 1-5 (1st division, 2. ...).
*literally "Demonarts People". Maybe that's where Komamura came from?
NoSanninWa
2006-02-09, 00:39
So there is a separate group of Kidou users who aren't part of Covert Ops or the Gotei 13? Interesting.
SuperKnuckles
2006-02-09, 01:09
Don't want to sound rude here, but I guess once the Soul Society is in REAL trouble next time, I bet somebody from the royal family and its circle will come and save the day. Atleast temporarily.
fierysky
2006-02-09, 01:17
hm...if shinigami can have kings then could Hollows as well? It would be interesting if they did.
Anyways, I read the official chinese version of the Bleach manga and the "imperial family" was indeed mentioned in my books. I don't know if this could be a translation error but they were mentioned. When the first Menos appears in volume 6 Rukia says something along the line, "Those (refering to the menos) are under the jurisdiction of the 王族 (the imperial family), no lone shinigami can go up against it."
So I don't think they just popped out of nowhere. Would someone like to check the japanese version? However it is an interesting thought that Ichigo may be a descendent. Or maybe the Hollow inside him has some relation? Or maybe Zangetsu?
The Small One
2006-02-09, 04:42
So there is a separate group of Kidou users who aren't part of Covert Ops or the Gotei 13? Interesting.
:twitch: This was explained a long time ago in the anime. Did you just forgot it, or did you really miss it at the time?
Nightengale
2006-02-09, 04:46
Royal Guards > Gotei 13?
Maybe in power level too? :thinker:
A possibility to extend Bleach?
NoSanninWa
2006-02-09, 05:46
:twitch: This was explained a long time ago in the anime. Did you just forgot it, or did you really miss it at the time?
Completely forgotten! Was it said what their duties and role are?
Royal Guards > Gotei 13?
Maybe in power level too? :thinker:
A possibility to extend Bleach?Almost indubitably.
Novarain
2006-02-09, 07:03
Currently we know that of the 4 noble familites, there's the Kuchiki and Shihouin families right? I've read that Ohmaeda Marechiyo (2nd div VC) is also from a noble family on another website (though i need someone to verify that for me...). What about the Shiba family? i do think they might also be nobilily.... hell Soi Fong is also from a noble family so i'm really wondering how they define noble family...
NoSanninWa
2006-02-09, 07:17
It was specified that the Shiba Family used to be nobility before they fell from grace for unspecified reasons.
Soi Fong is not from a noble family. Her family serves the Shihouin family.
XD Ooh...I haven't considered the idea that Ichigo might be the descendent of the missing King...:heh: and for some reason, I can totally see Isshin be that spoiled brat of a King that's beyond silly. And being this Bleach...:eyespin: I reckon our theories can't be that bizzare with what Kubo Tite have shown us.
But I'm somewhat convinced that Isshin, thus Ichigo is one of the five noble clans. The data book clearly says that 2 of the 4 have been mentioned, the Shiba clan used to be part of that before they fell.
There are 4 clans amentioned Ukitake,Shinouin,Shiba and Kuchiki, dunno who is the 5 th one.Its definately Not Soi fong clan .The King of Seireirei is news to me
ccardoso
2006-02-09, 11:32
Ok we've found who is Isshin. At this point it's reasonable to suppose to assume that he left SS throne to live undetected in the human world because of he fell in love with the human woman Masaki. This can seem to be quite too much to assume, but if you think at how much thingshe knows and how much strong he is it's very likely.
Wait this would make Ichigo the prince of SS? lol! :D
I'd translate it as "Covert Operations" (Onmitsu Kidou), "Punishment Forces" (Keigun) and "Demonarts Users" (Kidou Shuu)*, though I'm sure someone else can come up with a more accurate/impressive sounding translation. The 5 divisons in the diagram are simply numbered from 1-5 (1st division, 2. ...).
*literally "Demonarts People". Maybe that's where Komamura came from?
Nice! Now could someone please translate Onmitsu Kidou, Kidou Shuu and Keigun? Also, what are the 5 divisions under the Onmitsu Kidou called? (I think that the 13 squads of the Gotei 13 are obvious enough.)
Interesting thing about your translation is that it implies that there is a Royal Guard which does not answer to the Central 46... at least back when there was a Central 46.
This is the heirarchy after the king
Government
The Central 46 Chambers symbol.
The ultimate authority of shinigami are the Central 46 Chambers (中央四十六室 chūō yonjūroku shitsu). This is made up of 40 wise men and 6 judges. They are sealed into an enclave in Seireitei called seijōtōkyorin (清浄塔居林) and no one else may go enter it, regardless of their military or civilian status. The decisions of the 46 Chambers are final and may not be questioned by any person, regardless of status. In addition, all decisions by the 46 Chambers are carried out, even if they require the mobilization of the Gotei 13.
Army
The shinigami army is arranged into three corps: Gotei 13 (Thirteen Court Divisions), Demon Arts corps, and the Onmitsukidō (Covert/Special Ops corps).
*Demon Arts Corps (鬼道衆 kidōshū).
*Covert Ops Corps (隠密機動 onmitsukidō)
The Covert Ops, also called Special Ops and Secret Mobile Unit/Corps (the latter being the more accurate translation), has five divisions, the top-ranked one being the Executive Militia (刑軍 keigun).
Formerly headed by Yoruichi Shihouin, the current leader of the Covert Ops is Captain Soi Fong of the Gotei 13's 2nd Division. Little else is known about the Covert Ops' operations.The Covert Ops Corps is headed by a corps commander (軍団長 gundanchō), the real-life equivalent being Lieutenant-General.It is unknown how other ranks work in the corps, but like in Gotei 13, the leader of the corps generally also commands its top division, the Executive Militia. Unlike in the Gotei 13 however, the corps commander has several bodyguards.
*Gotei 13
(Kidō 鬼道
The demon arts are a type of combat or healing sorcery used by shinigami. Kidō spells are divided into two major groups: blast spells (破道 hadō), used for direct attack, and binding spells (縛道 bakudō), which are spells that restrain or involves restraining someone. To perform a kidō spell, one must call out the incantation for the spell, similar to releasing a zanpakutō. It is also possible to bypass the incantation for spells, as with the shikai release, however, each level gets successively harder. Even experienced captains cannot bypass a level 90 spell successfully.
Urahara and Byakuya are considered masters at this art
*This is one of 4 arts Aizen mentions has limitations (genkai) others are
-Hoho 歩法
-Zanjutsu 斬術
-Hakuda 白打 )
Sank u NoSanninWa for the image and sank u to you too kinny san for translation
As I recall Rukia's generic unnamed executioners were probably the first ever Kidou Shuu shown in the series they were there specifically there only for lifting the seal on the execution Zanpakutou.
This is the heirarchy after the king
[snip]
Thanks for the corrections and extended info. Somehow this gets me really excited as there is still so much to explore about the bleach universe. I'm looking forward to see how Kubo will (hopefully) weave all this stuff into the main storyline.
M4rauder
2006-02-09, 15:07
Renji mentioned earlier that Rukia was lucky that it was he and Byakuya that had come to collect her, and not the Keigun. I had been wondering for a long time how that group fit into the big picture!
Royal Guards > Gotei 13?
Maybe in power level too? :thinker:
A possibility to extend Bleach?
Even then how do you be a shinigami and have power greater than that of Aizen who has already achieve max level?
Thewanderer
2006-02-09, 16:16
Even then how do you be a shinigami and have power greater than that of Aizen who has already achieve max level?
Training?:heh:
Aizen already said there is a limit on a shinigami's power once you master all for arts. Aizen is at this stage and if the Royal Guards are above the Gotei 13 then how can they be stronger?
Aizen already said there is a limit on a shinigami's power once you master all for arts. Aizen is at this stage and if the Royal Guards are above the Gotei 13 then how can they be stronger?
Because their limits are different.
Ghostring
2006-02-09, 20:41
mmm the royal guard > gotei 13 really? mmm who are them anyway...has it been shown in the manga?or something sorry just asking >.<
btw how did you know aizen has allready reach max level?
Novarain
2006-02-09, 22:52
Cool... does this mean that the Gotei 13 are just grunt?
Hmmm.............................................. ..................................
NoSanninWa
2006-02-10, 01:31
mmm the royal guard > gotei 13 really? mmm who are them anyway...has it been shown in the manga?or something sorry just asking >.<
btw how did you know aizen has allready reach max level?
That isn't implied at all. All that organization chart shows is that they have a different duty and answer directly to the Royal Family. It doesn't mean that they are stronger.
The Small One
2006-02-10, 02:37
That isn't implied at all. All that organization chart shows is that they have a different duty and answer directly to the Royal Family. It doesn't mean that they are stronger.
You're right concerning the chart. However, above the chart are some other infos and one is: ・王属特務は王族の命を受けて多種多様の活動をおこなう特務機関。能力は格段に高い。
The first part says something about the royal guards beeing in charge of the royal family and having various tasks, while the second sentences translates to: "Their powers are exeptionally high."
Through the fact, that this was mentioned specifically, I think we can assume, that they are better than the Gotei 13.
Maybe that's the place, all those captains go to, if someone else is there to take their place.
NoSanninWa
2006-02-10, 03:42
Not necessarily so. Remember that there are 200 shinigami in each division of the Gotei 13. And most of those 200 shinigami can be killed by weak everyday hollows. Maybe "their powers are exeptionally high" simply means that every single member of the Royal Guard has the strength of a seated officer or captain level member of the Gotei 13. That would certainly mean that their powers are exceptionally high, but it wouldn't mean that they are stronger than the captains and vice-captains we have already met.
Kinny Riddle
2006-02-10, 10:13
hm...if shinigami can have kings then could Hollows as well? It would be interesting if they did.
Anyways, I read the official chinese version of the Bleach manga and the "imperial family" was indeed mentioned in my books. I don't know if this could be a translation error but they were mentioned. When the first Menos appears in volume 6 Rukia says something along the line, "Those (refering to the menos) are under the jurisdiction of the 王族 (the imperial family), no lone shinigami can go up against it."
So I don't think they just popped out of nowhere. Would someone like to check the japanese version? However it is an interesting thought that Ichigo may be a descendent. Or maybe the Hollow inside him has some relation? Or maybe Zangetsu?
Going back to read volume 6, chapter 48. Upon seeing the appearance of the Menos Grande, Rukia says these are under the jurisdiction of the Royal Guard, a mere shinigami cannot expect to take it on. (We now know Ichigo is no "mere shinigami", of course. )
王属特務 Ouzoku Tokumu roughly translates to "Special Forces under Royal Jurisdiction", to which I used "Royal Guard", since that's the closest meaning to it. I'm kind of flattered everyone's just using my unrefined version right away without any question. O_O;
PS And people, PLEASE! My name is NOT KENNY! It's Kinny with an "I"!
LordDemon
2006-02-11, 12:28
If people are questioning the strength of the Royal Guard and the King, then I suggest you think of things this way.
If you want the explanation, be warned that it will contain manga spoilers.
We only have to examine things logically. If the Royal Guard was any stronger than the Gotei 13, then Hitsugaya would not consider Soul Society to be doomed if Aizen had ten or more Vastrodes.
Taking that into consideration, it is highly doubtful that the Royal Guard is even stronger than the most powerful captains in the Gotei 13. Hitsugaya doesn't even bother bringing up the Royal Guard when weighing Soul Society's chances against the Vastrodes.
Regardless of how little we know about the Royal Guards, Soul Society is apparently still doomed if Aizen attacks with a decent number of Vastrodes, and that means the Royal Guard has to be on the same level or lower than that of the Gotei 13.
~A message brought to you by YamaChan
If people are questioning the strength of the Royal Guard and the King, then I suggest you think of things this way.
If you want the explanation, be warned that it will contain manga spoilers.
We only have to examine things logically. If the Royal Guard was any stronger than the Gotei 13, then Hitsugaya would not consider Soul Society to be doomed if Aizen had ten or more Vastrodes.
Taking that into consideration, it is highly doubtful that the Royal Guard is even stronger than the most powerful captains in the Gotei 13. Hitsugaya doesn't even bother bringing up the Royal Guard when weighing Soul Society's chances against the Vastrodes.
Regardless of how little we know about the Royal Guards, Soul Society is apparently still doomed if Aizen attacks with a decent number of Vastrodes, and that means the Royal Guard has to be on the same level or lower than that of the Gotei 13.
~A message provided by YamaChan
Heres the thing though..
Does gotei 13 generally know about this royal guard and king stuff? Thats the thing we have to know first if he is counting them or not. And it doesnt make sense for the royal guard to be just some seated officer or below captain lv punk to have that postition. They have to be atleast captain level and above. Well, i think isshin is the king because he wanted to start a family n junk and thats the reason why maybe he has a badge and a cloak at the same time because when you go to a captain, you dont wear a badge and when you are a vc you only have a badge not both. Then again, he could of ran off when he was promoted to a captain and he left. O yea doesnt ichigos door has a symbol of 15 or something like that on it? hmm..
LordDemon
2006-02-11, 14:20
Heres the thing though..
Does gotei 13 generally know about this royal guard and king stuff? Thats the thing we have to know first if he is counting them or not. And it doesnt make sense for the royal guard to be just some seated officer or below captain lv punk to have that postition. They have to be atleast captain level and above. Well, i think isshin is the king because he wanted to start a family n junk and thats the reason why maybe he has a badge and a cloak at the same time because when you go to a captain, you dont wear a badge and when you are a vc you only have a badge not both. Then again, he could of ran off when he was promoted to a captain and he left. O yea doesnt ichigos door has a symbol of 15 or something like that on it? hmm..
o_O...
It wouldn't make sense for them not to know. They were aware of Central 46, no? I hope the Gotei 13 would be aware of the hierchy of their own noble society...
Other than that...you are speculating way too much and going off on a completely different tangent there.
Needless to say, based on what we know and what has been explictly stated, the Royal Guard are on the same level or lower than that of the Gotei 13.
Soul Society woudln't be DOOMED otherwise
By the way, the Royal Guard was mentioned by Renji when he went to get Rukia.
~A message brought to you by YamaChan
The Small One
2006-02-12, 04:26
It wouldn't make sense for them not to know. They were aware of Central 46, no? I hope the Gotei 13 would be aware of the hierchy of their own noble society...
Other than that...you are speculating way too much and going off on a completely different tangent there.
Well, maybe there is no need for them to know the structure above the Central 46, since they get all their orders from there and don't have to care about what lies ahead.
Nobody should have had access to the area, where the Central 46 were living, so the royal family and the royal guard could live even more secretly.
However I think it's really unlikely, that they don't know about the king.
Needless to say, based on what we know and what has been explictly stated, the Royal Guard are on the same level or lower than that of the Gotei 13.
I wouldn't say this though. It's explicitly statet, that the royal guards is "exceptionally powerful". IMHO this needn't to be said, if they really weren't powerful. And especially not "exceptionally". Maybe hitsugaya doesn't count them in, because he knows, that they won't help if Soul Society is going to get attacked.
They only follow the orders of the royal family, and maybe the King doesn't care about what happens to Soul Sciety.
physics223
2006-02-12, 04:42
I expect Ishin to be the king of SS. Kubo is just that twisted that he will do just that, and surprise us all once more.
jungleking
2006-02-12, 06:13
Maybe the general is really the king the highest member of the gotei he has his guards. I would think a king of SS would choose to fight not hide away.
o_O...
It wouldn't make sense for them not to know. They were aware of Central 46, no? I hope the Gotei 13 would be aware of the hierchy of their own noble society...
Other than that...you are speculating way too much and going off on a completely different tangent there.
Needless to say, based on what we know and what has been explictly stated, the Royal Guard are on the same level or lower than that of the Gotei 13.
Soul Society woudln't be DOOMED otherwise
By the way, the Royal Guard was mentioned by Renji when he went to get Rukia.
~A message brought to you by YamaChan
Frankly, they shouldnt know cause all they mention is central 46 and since they follow orders from guard and king how should gotei 13 know? Royal guard is above gotei 13 because simply what the chart says, he/she has more authority over everybody except the king. What chapter or eps was the guard mentioned? my memory is blurred.
what if the entire royal guard chose to became human along with the king if isshin really is the king? then maybe ichigo's friend are reincarnations of these royal guards... who knows maybe they themselves had powers of their own but was just awakened by ichigo's
wouldnt that make sense why among ichigo's classmates only a few of them were affected by his subconscious reatsu, since they actually were his guards... anyway they are already making chad/sado look armored like a knight :D
or then maybe quincies have something to do with these royal guards...
what if the entire royal guard chose to became human along with the king if isshin really is the king? then maybe ichigo's friend are reincarnations of these royal guards... who knows maybe they themselves had powers of their own but was just awakened by ichigo's
wouldnt that make sense why among ichigo's classmates only a few of them were affected by his subconscious reatsu, since they actually were his guards... anyway they are already making chad/sado look armored like a knight :D
or then maybe quincies have something to do with these royal guards...
.... That's really stretching it a bit too far, don't you think?:heh: :p
Anyway, we really don't have any information on the Guard other than the fact that it exists and answers directly to the Royal family without the need to consult the opinions of Central 46. Whether the Guard is superior in strength compared to the Gotei 13 is more or less of a mystery at the moment, but since it appears in the Character Book there is a possibility that the Guard may come into play as the story progresses.
.L'].... That's really stretching it a bit too far, don't you think?:heh: :p
awww... but stretching things out is more fun than not to hehe :D
but yeah definitely, they'll play their part soon enough, just so they can stretch out the manga when no new idea comes around :p
but it really is weird how come the council makes decisions in SS and not the king/emperor who is supposedly higher... maybe their form of government is parliamentary with a puppet monarchy? :D or then again maybe the king really is missing
freakabcd
2006-02-14, 00:51
hey, what if Ichigo _is_ (was, however you want to interpret) the king? :p
iirc, Aizen mentioned that there is no king. Was he possibly referring to the SS king? I even have some doubts about Urahara knowing the complete story.
Surely Isshin knows the whole deal. Himself and Ishida's dad might have been good buddies before...*whatever happened*
Also I hadn't noticed it earlier that Isshin had both cloak and badge, I hope it means something
could it be that Royal Guards or Kidouh users are controling Hell that we still don't know nothing about... I don't think that SS and Hell is controlled by completly diffrent forces...
if there is no King now maybe Royal Guards have been taken as well... Yamamoto probably know about King from the begining as he started Gotei 13 and it's bellow King and all, and if he didn't know than 46 must know about it and Aizen could get any information from them he wanted...
I don't think that Aizen would say that there is no king if there really was one as he really knows a lot and he can go where nobody is allowed (as 46 chambers)
Isshin can be just a VC with cape and bandage, as we've already seen that 1st Division VC that isn't any stronger than normal VC have both those things,
and I don't think that Aizen would say that there is no king, if there really was one hiding somewhere and could jump in anytime and ruin his plans, as Aizen know a lot... even Urahara's possible position when whole SS didn't know where he is
Isshin even if don't have such power as before don't have to be capitan level as first Arrancars was small fries, but than again we didn't see anybody weak fighting agains them (e.g. Chad,Kira) so we don't know what kind of power Isshin posses...
we don't know does Uuryu's(sp) father is stronger than him with his little bow than Uuryu(sp) after taking off his glove
maybe this picture with SS goverment was made as for what was when there was King... and now Kidouh users might be part of Gotei 13 or something, cause we don't know what time Urahara and Unohana were in their squad so their squads became profesions
PS. why Unohana didn't heal preview 11th division capitan after Zaraki fought agains him? I though he could bring death back to live... maybe Zaraki cut his head off :D
but how does all this fit into the whole shiba kaien- kurosaki ichigo dynamic though?
or could there be a further story behind the shiba family?
The Small One
2006-03-04, 12:56
I don't think that Aizen would say that there is no king if there really was one as he really knows a lot and he can go where nobody is allowed (as 46 chambers)
Aizen never said anything about a King!
He said somethng like "There is no one in heaven". This has nothing to do with the King.
Besides we don't even know, if his "heaven" specifies an existent place, or if this whole scentence was meant metaphorically and he just wanted to say, that he will be able to achieve a godlike power.
Aizen never said anything about a King!
He said somethng like "There is no one in heaven". This has nothing to do with the King.
Besides we don't even know, if his "heaven" specifies an existent place, or if this whole scentence was meant metaphorically and he just wanted to say, that he will be able to achieve a godlike power.
that's true, but he didn't say that he'll be a king or he'll overtake king's position... so probably he's aiming even higher or something :D
Somehow I get the feeling that the king is more of a figurehead and the Central 46 etc. are the ones ruling Soul Society or more rather, managing it. If the King really was important and had real power, wouldn't you think that someone would have mentioned him already?
Of course, he could like already dead and had no descendants. That would explain why it seems like Central 46 is governing everyth. That would still be strange thro, somehow, that they still list the King as their ruler even thro there isn't one.
Yeah, I guess SS may very well be running on a constitutional monarchy type of government.
NoSanninWa
2006-03-06, 02:15
Somehow I get the feeling that the king is more of a figurehead and the Central 46 etc. are the ones ruling Soul Society or more rather, managing it. If the King really was important and had real power, wouldn't you think that someone would have mentioned him already?
Of course, he could like already dead and had no descendants. That would explain why it seems like Central 46 is governing everyth. That would still be strange thro, somehow, that they still list the King as their ruler even thro there isn't one.
Hence, my thinking that the king is probably missing.
Somehow I get the feeling that the king is more of a figurehead and the Central 46 etc. are the ones ruling Soul Society or more rather, managing it. If the King really was important and had real power, wouldn't you think that someone would have mentioned him already?
Of course, he could like already dead and had no descendants. That would explain why it seems like Central 46 is governing everyth. That would still be strange thro, somehow, that they still list the King as their ruler even thro there isn't one.
If Central 46 is managing things after King's dissapeared or something that it does make sense, and the list isn't something that was writen on the wall in manga or anime, it's something that might be some kind of a big spoiler :D
I hope we do get to see Aizen challenge the King as the true ruler of all. That would be a great battle if the King is greater than everyone else in soul society.
The Small One
2006-03-07, 16:48
I hope we do get to see Aizen challenge the King as the true ruler of all. That would be a great battle if the King is greater than everyone else in soul society.
Just because the King has the right to rule Soul Society, he doesn't necessarily have to be powerful... he could be at Hanatarou's level. ;)
hey, what if Ichigo _is_ (was, however you want to interpret) the king? :p
Well Hollow Ichigo calls Ichigo 'King' so it may be true, who knows :confused:
NoSanninWa
2006-03-07, 17:35
Just because the King has the right to rule Soul Society, he doesn't necessarily have to be powerful... he could be at Hanatarou's level. ;)
Indeed. Most historical kings were lousy swordsmen, that's what armies are for. Even King Arthur wasn't as strong as several of his knight, notably Lancelot and Percival.
Of course, this is shounen anime, so it would be wierd if the king failed to kick ass in a big way.
eLcHaKeTeRo
2006-03-07, 18:10
Well Hollow Ichigo calls Ichigo 'King' so it may be true, who knows :confused:
I think that he calls him that because he is refering to his inner world that he is the "king" of, and since the hollow ichigo is within him he calls him "king".
I think that he calls him that because he is refering to his inner world that he is the "king" of, and since the hollow ichigo is within him he calls him "king".
That's true but we can't deny the fact that the hollow Ichigo may have some other meanings for calling Ichigo "king". I won't draw any conclusions regarding who is the SS king or whatsoever but I find it funny that Isshin's a royal decendent. And have it ever been mentioned that Ichigo's mother is a human? Forgive me if its been mentioned but I seriously don't remember Ichigo's mother being a human. She may be a shinigami like Isshin, or maybe she have strong spiritual power.
animernq
2006-03-09, 14:37
If the Royal Guard as so strong why did none of the Captains contact them after
Aizen was found dead (anyone strong enough to kill a Captain would be a threat to the Soul Society)
When it was discovered Aizen has killed the 46 Chambers and Unohana decided to contact everyone (she did not contact the Royal Guard about this)
When it was revealed that Aizen had allied himself with the Menos Grande (a very serious threat to the Soul Society).
The Small One
2006-03-10, 03:04
That's true but we can't deny the fact that the hollow Ichigo may have some other meanings for calling Ichigo "king". I won't draw any conclusions regarding who is the SS king or whatsoever but I find it funny that Isshin's a royal decendent.
Even if Ichigo is related to SS's king (which may be possible), there is no way for Hollow-Ichigo to know this! He is a part of Ichigo and can only know the things, Ichigo knows himself.
animernq
2006-03-16, 04:54
Do you suppose that Vaizard is actually the Royal Guard?
NoSanninWa
2006-03-16, 05:12
Do you suppose that Vaizard is actually the Royal Guard?
Highly unlikely.
Do you suppose that Vaizard is actually the Royal Guard?
maybe they were before they became Vaizards? that would be a nice twist. they do seem to be pretty powerful. maybe 219 will let us see some of their power.
The Small One
2006-03-17, 04:15
that would be a nice twist. they do seem to be pretty powerful. maybe 219 will let us see some of their power.
:twitch: Actually, I think they look pretty weak. It took all of them to restrain Ichigo the first time, he went hollow.
Someone mentioned, that maybe they just jumped all in, because they couldn't know, that someone else was already reacting, but this would mean, that they don't really trust each other, which would show that they can't have worked together for a long time.
Or that since they've done this before, they're taking every precaution.
eLcHaKeTeRo
2006-03-20, 17:50
:twitch: Actually, I think they look pretty weak. It took all of them to restrain Ichigo the first time, he went hollow.
Someone mentioned, that maybe they just jumped all in, because they couldn't know, that someone else was already reacting, but this would mean, that they don't really trust each other, which would show that they can't have worked together for a long time.
I dont think so, that one guy cast a lv 70( i think) restraining spell on the vaizard ichigo and then ofcourse he broke out of it, then that one chick Risa is going one on one. She has to be very strong in order to even try to fight Ichigo in that state. Look what he did to Byakuya.
But this is quickly becoming a manga chapter 218 discussion.
( I just re-read the entire thread.)
Since we have never seen a royal guard, maybe Isshin is the top guy over there.
Someone said that he had a cloak like the 1st division vice, but he doesnt he has the remnants of a captain's robe with a badge wich could possibly be used by the royal guards. ( Has anyone gotten a clear look at that badge? It could reveal lots of good things.)
The Small One
2006-03-21, 03:27
I dont think so, that one guy cast a lv 70( i think) restraining spell on the vaizard ichigo and then ofcourse he broke out of it, then that one chick Risa is going one on one. She has to be very strong in order to even try to fight Ichigo in that state. Look what he did to Byakuya.
Well, they could overestimate themselves, or underestimate Ichigo.
However, so far they look pretty weak to me, and definately not like a well-established team, which would be expected from royal guards.
where does Yama-yii come into the chart?
NoSanninWa
2006-03-22, 01:14
where does Yama-yii come into the chart?
Gotei 13, 1st squad captain of course.
eLcHaKeTeRo
2006-03-24, 21:08
Well, they could overestimate themselves, or underestimate Ichigo.
However, so far they look pretty weak to me, and definately not like a well-established team, which would be expected from royal guards.
I never said that they were royal guards, I just said that they were pretty strong.
small one, the new chapters seem to suggest they're not weak. they seem very confident in their abilities, even with the startling advent of Ichigo's new powers.
Quick question about this Character book information. I'm just wondering if the information for the 1st division vice captain came in this book. I went to wikipedia to surprisingly find the name of the 1st division vice captain being there, though i don't recall it ever being mentioned in the manga or anime.
The Small One
2006-03-27, 04:58
Hm, I bet nobody of the Vaizards is going to die... ;)
eLcHaKeTeRo
2006-03-27, 16:37
Quick question about this Character book information. I'm just wondering if the information for the 1st division vice captain came in this book. I went to wikipedia to surprisingly find the name of the 1st division vice captain being there, though i don't recall it ever being mentioned in the manga or anime.
yeah, it was mentioned in another thread but i dont remember wich one
LoL
Sorry.
Hm, I bet nobody of the Vaizards is going to die...
Ofcourse not
Has anyone even died yet?
I want someone to die.
does anyone remember ichigo's fight with his hollow side when his other self said that he is the king and that zangetsu should take care of him very well that he will soon possess the body to himself.Now that the idea of SS's king is up,i am suspecting that ichigo,s family is one special family,not just an ordinary family.We dont even know of yuzu and karin's potential at all but i am thinking they will help ichigo along the way.wHY DOES ANYONE THINK THAT HOLLOW ICHIGO KNOWS ALL ZANGETSU'S MOVES,its pretty simple, hollow ichigo is a part of zangetsu.Ichigo might as well be the king of soul society or a descendant,who knows.All i know is that ichigo is knowwhere near his potential,he will surprise everyone as the series goes on.i really think that he has godlike powers that aizen is sort of looking for.
omegastar
2006-09-17, 14:42
Actually, Hollow Ichgo's refrence to the king and the horse was merely an analogy to their battle for ruling over the body, and how the Hollow would try to take over should the opportunity arise.
I'm pretty sure it barely does have anything to do with the King of SS.
horsdhaleine
2006-09-17, 19:33
what if the entire royal guard chose to became human along with the king if isshin really is the king?
if so, then urahara's business will prosper!
I think the King is either dead or missing. Currently leaning towards missing, because that would be yet another arc for Ichigo & Company, to find and return the King so he can lead the assault / unlock the power / open the door / whatever to finish off Aizen in Heco Mundo.
As for the Royal Guards...
I think Isshin was the head of the Royal Guards, and his wife was the daughter of the King, taken to Earth as a baby to hide her from whoever was after the King.
Time passes, they fall in love, yada yada yada. Would explain why he is of Captain class, yet noone in SS remarked 'Hey, wasn't there a captain with the same last name?' Also explains why he seemed to worship her, and refused to even consider moving on after her death. It represents another failure in protecting the royal family.
I am also pretty sure that Ishida's father helped in the escape somehow. We know they knew eachother when Isshin was a Shinigami, unless they go a cheesy route to explain away that.
It would also explain why Ishida's dad ( I can never remember his name...) dislikes being a Quincy so much, and didn't want Ishida to learn. Something happened on the rescue mission to get the Princess. Perhaps Ishida at one point in time had an uncle or aunt who went along with Isshin and died saving her?
I didnt read thw whole thread. But, isnt Yamamoto talking about Aizens true goal, the Spirit King? Or something? And he need alot of souls to get there cuz its sealed. And the target is Ichigos hometown? Or I can be completly wrong and all that was something else ^^
Edit: And I didnt find that chapter, but I think its in the same as Hinamori speaking with Hitsaguya
The Appreance of SS King . Dont know why I always picture Dead king form LOR 3 as SS King
http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/King_Dead_statue.jpg
Komataguri
2006-10-31, 13:06
If the Royal Guard as so strong why did none of the Captains contact them after
Aizen was found dead (anyone strong enough to kill a Captain would be a threat to the Soul Society)
When it was discovered Aizen has killed the 46 Chambers and Unohana decided to contact everyone (she did not contact the Royal Guard about this)
When it was revealed that Aizen had allied himself with the Menos Grande (a very serious threat to the Soul Society).
Maybe its none of their concern, they are the royal guard...not the captains guard.
As for the Royal Guards...
I think Isshin was the head of the Royal Guards, and his wife was the daughter of the King, taken to Earth as a baby to hide her from whoever was after the King.
Time passes, they fall in love, yada yada yada. Would explain why he is of Captain class, yet noone in SS remarked 'Hey, wasn't there a captain with the same last name?' Also explains why he seemed to worship her, and refused to even consider moving on after her death. It represents another failure in protecting the royal family.
That still doesn't explain how Urahara, a captain from the soul society, knows about Isshin. If this is a very secretive topic, and even if the people in soul society were kept unaware of it, then an exiled captain, who can possess more danger than the soul society itself, should be one of the few people that needs to be made completely unaware of Isshin's existence. On the other hand, if Urahara has something to do with that Royal group, then Isshin might also have a similar relationship, that doesn't require him to be a part of that group.
Lastly, if Isshin is known as being dead by the soul society, or if he changed his name and erased his existence somehow, then it is really difficult to determine his existence especially after he lost his powers and/or living in a human body.
That still doesn't explain how Urahara, a captain from the soul society, knows about Isshin. If this is a very secretive topic, and even if the people in soul society were kept unaware of it, then an exiled captain, who can possess more danger than the soul society itself, should be one of the few people that needs to be made completely unaware of Isshin's existence. On the other hand, if Urahara has something to do with that Royal group, then Isshin might also have a similar relationship, that doesn't require him to be a part of that group.
Lastly, if Isshin is known as being dead by the soul society, or if he changed his name and erased his existence somehow, then it is really difficult to determine his existence especially after he lost his powers and/or living in a human body.
IMHO Royal gaurd have no connection or more importantly contact with Sendai no Gotei , like Special forces and Army. If Indeed Isshin was RG he wouldnt have known Urahara . Think Isshin helped Urahara escape SS
Isshin I belive goes by an alias most probably Kurosaki . Isshin's shinigami powers were sealed who sealed them and why were they sealed is intriguing
IMHO Royal gaurd have no connection or more importantly contact with Sendai no Gotei , like Special forces and Army. If Indeed Isshin was RG he wouldnt have known Urahara . Think Isshin helped Urahara escape SS
Isshin I belive goes by an alias most probably Kurosaki . Isshin's shinigami powers were sealed who sealed them and why were they sealed is intriguing
I think it was pretty clear that it was Urahara that sealed his powers with a Gigai like the one he gave to Rukia, although it might not have had the fuction of completely removeing his powers only damping them so he would be undetectable to SS, as on of Urahara' coments to Isshin after he regained his powers was that he did not want to be blamed if Isshin wasn't as strong as he was before. The why is still unclear. I belive in part he was hideing from SS or at least someone in SS that could be seen to have a lot of power. Given he and Urahara seem to know some of Azein's plans and he also came out of hideing after Azein was exposed my theory is that he may have been unsure who he was hideing from or Azein had framed him for getting too close to his plans
I think it was pretty clear that it was Urahara that sealed his powers with a Gigai like the one he gave to Rukia, although it might not have had the fuction of completely removeing his powers only damping them so he would be undetectable to SS,
The Gigai given to Rukia was a diffrent one if Isshin had indeed used that for all these years he would have lost Shinigami capablities and become a normal reishi ( ie leatsu inhibiting and sealing Gigai )
Also it was Ryuuken who makes that comment . So does make you wonder how did Ryuuken know about his shinigami powers being sealed away .IMHO Ryuuken Urahara and Ishida must have had a major role/part to play earlier .All three are familiar with each other and must have had a history .
LoL well when I yesterday red whole topic it was first time when i heard about the "king". Then i thought about it and made well ..... Stupid Theory XD :
About long time ago(well when Yamamamoto was still young XD). There was a Royal Family who Rule the whole Soul Society and their Shinigami. Head was of course King. Royal Familly had their "Advisers" who helped royal family solving problems. Shinigamis were used to do such things as Killing Hollows, Taking Human's Souls to SS. The Most powerfull shinigami were "Masters", for example Thunder Master(Someone with Powerfull Thunder Soul Slayer), Fire Master(Yamamoto :P), Kidou Master and others. Royal Familly wanted to had someone who would solve such pity problems without their decisions. They formed Central 46 with their best "Advisers", then they told 3 Masters(Yamamoto, Kidou Master and Other Master) to form Special Corps who will be doing things for Central 46. They were Gotei 13, Demon Arts Corps(Managers of Hell) and Covert Ops Corps. Only few Master Level Shinigami didn't join Spiecial Crops and became Royal Familly Personal Guards. After that Royal Familly was solving really serious problems using Royal Guards. Of course the most powerfull shinigami from Gotei 13/Demon Arts Corps/Covert Ops Corps were chosen(asaid Yamamoto) to became Master and join Royal Guards, but that was really rare. Years was passing and Gotei 13/Demon Arts Corps/Covert Ops Corps were becoming more and more powerfulll and Royal Familly didn't need to interfere. Then Central 46 didn't contact Royal Familly any more. Now no one know what happened to Royal Familly.
To be Continue ...
Well I will think what happened, but probably they don't want to interfere any more only looking what will happe to SS. They have taken Passive Position :P
Well That is All. Sorry for my english :P
Just wondering, if Rukia said something along the lines of 'those (menos) are under the jurisdiction of the elite forces' shouldn't those elite forces be informed and be doing something if Aizen decides to side with them?
NoSanninWa
2006-12-18, 02:39
I'm sure they have been informed. I suppose they are standing by to join the battle when Aizen returns from Hueco Mundo.
Question
2007-01-13, 08:20
I call plot device.
The king doesnt rule soul society. He doesnt do anything to rule for one thing.
What happens if Bush locks himself up in the oval office and refuses to do anything? Is he still the president? No, because he stopped trying to govern the country, he lost his post the moment he decided "I will do jack". Not technically true, i think he has to be impeached first, but for all intents and purposes he cased being the president the moment he stopped doing his job.
The only way you can be king of soul society is if you actually govern it as the king. You are either there making the decisions or making decisions through a proxy, and you have a pool of loyal subjects(gotei 13, 46 chambers) obeying and carrying out your decisions.
In "in universe" terms the king isnt even a figurehead, as even a figurehead is there for the purpose of being seen as a ruler for the public, hes the equavelent of a mythological figure. No one can prove he exists, hes just accepted that he does exist.
The only reason he is there is so Aizen doesnt instantly win during the soul society arc, as the 46 chambers and the 13 captains are the de-facto rulers of soul society. Hes already wiped out the former, and his shikai is so absurd that he can defeat 1 million Yamamoto class captains with ease.....just follow the steps :
1. Release zanpakuto.
2.Hypnosis everyone else into believing that Aizen doesnt exist.
3.Stab one Yamamoto in the face.
4.Hypnosis everyone else into believing that Aizen did NOT just stab someone in the face.
5.Repeat step 4 999,999 times till everyone else is dead, while everyone else is still happily hypnosised into believing that everything is perfectly fine, there isnt a dangerous enemy named Aizen, and that nobody is being killed off one by one.
How is this not h4x...Kubo needed the "King" as a plot device, or the manga series would have ended RIGHT THERE, with Aizen taking over and everyone else dead.
Pretty hard to govern a place when the king is in another dimension
Edit : well the Royal Family anyway
Question
2007-01-14, 11:28
Precisely. Thats why i say hes not the king of soul society. It takes more than some people calling you king to be king.
eh, the bush analogy does not work, the king is not just a random spirit (or human in bush's case).
it has been said in the manga that the king is the most important existence in S.S. & death of the king = end of S.S. you certainly can't say that for bush or the british royal family. maybe the S.S. royal famly were the creators of S.S.? maybe they're a special being whose existence is crucial for the balance of the spirits, maybe he has the power of one billion souls? even ichigo has the power of millions of regular shinigamis. the king can't be a figure with no practical use, or a bunch of elected weaklings like bush admin/central 46, because aizen would not bother with such insignificant things. the very reason he's after the royal family and not gotei 13 strongly suggest that at the very least, the king and his royal guards either have much greater power of special properties the shinigamis don't have
comparing bush to the king is like comparing him to say, god (if god exists). bleach is fantasy, god doesn't have to do shit to be god
felixm477
2007-01-16, 21:24
Aizen already said there is a limit on a shinigami's power once you master all for arts. Aizen is at this stage and if the Royal Guards are above the Gotei 13 then how can they be stronger?
well they obviously arent shinigami since the others outside the gotei 13 arent defacto shinigami. weve seen quincies,hollows,vizards,arrancar, its quite possible the royal guards draw their power thru other methods with a higher power ranger.
also about the king, considering hes never been mentioned in the anime or manga,and SS was practically destroyed in complete dissaray with no king or guard in site, its quite possible this hints that the so called SS king is missing or not around, i have a feeling ichigo and isshin fit somewhere into this. it wouldnt be the first time this happens, afterall most animes protagoniest are either decendants of the most powerful race in the story or royal blood. they have to explain inchigo's insane groth rate somehow and explain ishins past and his reason for leaving SS.
felixm477
2007-01-16, 21:46
Maybe its none of their concern, they are the royal guard...not the captains guard.
if thers one thing we learn in SS is that none of the devision heads like meddling into other devisions or have others meddle in thers, its possible the royal guard tends to just their duties and the royal family and nothing else.
hmmm, would it be possible that Chad's pendant from his grandad be part of or is an ingrediant to make the key to get into the Kings dimension ? A crazy theory but with Chad's new powers, I just can't help but think there might be some importance in it
Theory
What if zangetsu is the king and hes trapped inside ichigos blade, than again what if Ogichi we're the king =O or ichigo himself is destined to be the king, Ogichi is always referring him to as "King"
cellardoor
2007-02-03, 10:41
Theory
What if zangetsu is the king and hes trapped inside ichigos blade, than again what if Ogichi we're the king =O or ichigo himself is destined to be the king, Ogichi is always referring him to as "King"
that makes sense however, there are still too many questions. :twitch: :confused:
i'm noob at bleach i didnt read manga.
the king is ichigo's dad im guessing :D
perhaps hichigo is the final vastlorde that aizen needs to perfect his arrancar and this somehow leads to the key to the kings realm:D ?
Highly unlikely than zangetsu is king. He probably is just a normal zanpakuto. Ichigo is the owner of zangetsu, thats why he is the king of the world ( as hichigo calls him ), but within zangetsu itself, whoever is stronger is the king. Thats probably all there is to the usage of king in that context.
Its not very possible for the newer generation chad to have anything to do with the royal king. Remember, as powerful a powerup he gained, he is still a minor character. This stuff should be left for ichigo. Everything is left for ichigo. Its shounen, man.
.L;472240']Picture version completed: translations by Kinny Riddle^
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4296/bleachbooklist7zf.jpg
What is the name of that sort of a tree.
I know the fact the onmitsu kidou are seperated but still connected on the same line as gotei 13 means something.
NoSanninWa
2007-02-09, 02:15
It's called an organizational chart.
I know the fact the onmitsu kidou are seperated but still connected on the same line as gotei 13 means something.It means that they both answer directly to the Central 46.
hmmm, would it be possible that Chad's pendant from his grandad be part of or is an ingrediant to make the key to get into the Kings dimension ? A crazy theory but with Chad's new powers, I just can't help but think there might be some importance in itIf that would be the case, then why wouldn't we see any protection around Chad, when he faced all those dangers around himself, and sometimes alone?
And, if his grandpa would be a part of some special group, then, either he is a traitor - since Chad is not known by the opposing Shinigami force - and working for the hollow-side, or he is working in great secrecy towards the protection of the king, or their location. But, it is hard to see the validitiy of the second case, since again Chad has no protection around him. And, for the first case, he needs to be against Aizen's group, otherwise, Chad would have been already brought to Aizen.
It's called an organizational chart.
It means that they both answer directly to the Central 46.
K thanks just trying to figure out something.
The current leader of the onmitsu kidou (Soi Fon) is also captain of the second division.Are the members on the onmitsu kidou considered part of the second division?Or are they completely seperate?
I believe they are separate. Second division and onmitsu kidou should be totally different, which is why yoruichi sint second div ex captain and why soi fong's vice captain probably isnt part of omintsu kidou.
Crazy idea but..
Remember when Aizen said about there's no one ruling in heaven and he wishes to rule.
Maybe he meant that the royal family has already long gone. [*points finger to Isshin*]
NoSanninWa
2007-02-14, 01:46
Please read the thread before posting such things. Yeah, yeah, we've heard it (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=475781&postcount=36) before. We've also heard (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=683020&postcount=76) the idea that Misaki was the king's daughter while Isshin was her guard who ran away with her. (I think that one is more dramatic.) Somewhere else I heard the idea that Orihime could be the heir. (She's got a very strange power and her name means Princess.) At least those are better than the guess (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=806504&postcount=94) that the King is trapped inside Ichigo's blade. There might be a few more wild guesses also, but those are the main ones I see in these threads. I'll restrain my guessing until there is actually a hint.
So while it might be a "crazy idea" it has already been said. I think that Aizen was most definitely referring to the royal family when he said taht there is no one ruling in heaven. The real question is if the royal family is dead, missing or simply unconcerned with the world.
professays
2007-02-14, 03:48
It clarifies a lot.
amOKchen
2007-04-03, 03:38
.L;472240']Picture version completed: translations by Kinny Riddle^
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4296/bleachbooklist7zf.jpg
Here is some of my very random thinking..
As we know it SS and Hell is where your soul is judged before you enter either.
Could it be possible that this organisation chart could be mirrored into a SS and Hell tree.
The royality would then be waizards, they all got two distinct personalities normal/evil which would allow them to rule both ways compared to what form they choose to present at the time, since they learn to control what personality got control.
We dont really know anything about if Hell could be connected with SS in some way, but we cant disregard the thought either.
For some reason in past Bleach history the royalty was maybe forced to leave their Heaven/Hell ruling place. This is probably where Hueco Mundo creatures comes into the picture, they are the villains in the story.
I remember reading in one of the recent manga chapters that Ishida became even stronger in Hueco Mundo than he was in SS, which could refer to that the first quincies originated from there. Maybe because of their very humanlike nature they waged war on the very evil that created them.
They were destroyed because they disturbed the balance..
What we hear from captain Hitsugaya is that vaestro lordes are stronger than any captain, which makes me think they can easily be on par with or stronger than the waizards, there could have been a battle/war that forced the 'king' and his royality away from their home.
can the king be like god or something, and he is neutral?
NoSanninWa
2007-04-03, 23:55
Yes he can. Heck, he could be anything Kubo Tite wants him to be. Since we haven't gotten any clues there just isn't anything we can do besides guess wildly. Well, actually there is one clue from the manga, but it is pretty vague...
Aizen says that the throne of heaven is empty. Of course there are many ways to interpret this, but most people believe that the king is missing.That doesn't tell us much, but it certainly doesn't rule out your wild guess.
i choose to interpret it as a haiku
the throne of heaven
masks hiding the king's dark soul
the throne is hollow
Bronwen Stx
2007-04-05, 18:03
i choose to interpret it as a haiku
the throne of heaven
masks hiding the king's dark soul
the throne is hollow
Actually my theory is sort of a twist from that (theory? maybe some weird idea...). It kinda reiterates the idea that 'power corrupts' and maybe possibly that the Royal Army thought that because of that power, it corrupted the King and thus had no choice but to destroy him or...seal him and turn him into a zanpakatou. :D Which is why there is no more King! :D
reloaded
2007-04-05, 19:18
I'm too tired to read the first five pages so if this has already been said then youll have to forgive me.
Since that diagram showed that the central 46 are directly under the kings command then wouldnt the king know that something was wrong sooner after aizen and co killed the central 46 members all off, its a different case for the gotei 13 to know because they dont actually need to go to the central 46 area but if they serve directly under the king then more contact would be made between the royals and the chamber 46 members, it seems werid how no one new about this even though it had hapened ages ago since toushiro said that they were killed early since their blood has turned black. Seems dodgy to me.
There is one person who people keep forgetting about...Hollow inside Ichigo. What is he? Who is he? Remember in the recent chapters about Kaido being trapped inside a hollow. Well...Could the same end up happening to the King? Maybe he was becomming so powerful they had to surpress him...And Ichigo happened to pick it up. For all we know...This guy could be the king.
Dark Crusader
2007-04-05, 23:23
My current theory is that the kings is dead. And has been for some time. He was the victim of Urahara's first hygoukyo (not sure how its spelled) experiment. The experiment was most likely meant to show case a new way that the death gods coul;d get the upper hand on the hollows or perhaps to make the hollows intelligent enough to negotiate with. Anyway the resulting vizard or arrancar went berserk and started killing all of the death gods present. It was too strong for the royal guard to handle alone so the king stepped in and the battle was a draw. The vizard or arrancar retreated and the king died of his injures. This is the reason for Urahara's banishment. He will not be allowed back into Soul Society until the arrancar and the hygoukyo are both destroyed. As for the Shiba clan they lost a great amount of face and were dishonorably removed from thier status of being one of the 4 noble houses because they supported Urahara and his invention.
As for the viazard or arrancar he would be either Gin or Aizen. Gins quirky personality makes him a good candidate for being a viazard or arrancar. He told Aizen about the hygoukyo and the fact that the king was also dead. Other weird things about Gin are his appearance at the gate when Icihgo and company arrived in SS. Most people believe it was because they were expecting Ichigo but you'll notice Gin didn't know it was them until he heard their names. My theory is Gin sensed something similar to him namely Icihgo and went to investigate. Also Yaruchi didn't want Icihgo to fight Gin saying he was too strong yet she doesn't interfere in his fight against Zaraki who's strong enough to think he can fight 2 VC and 2 Captains at the same time. It just doesn't make sense.
Aizen could be a viazard or arrancar simply to explain why he knows what he knows and his ridiculous level of power.
i don;t know about your theory as to the death of the king, but i know that a lot of people have had similar theories about gin. you bring up a good point about Yoruichi and the difference in her reaction between IchiVGin and IchiVZaraki. one has to wonder why yoruichi would be so worried about Ichimaru...
i don;t know about your theory as to the death of the king, but i know that a lot of people have had similar theories about gin. you bring up a good point about Yoruichi and the difference in her reaction between IchiVGin and IchiVZaraki. one has to wonder why yoruichi would be so worried about Ichimaru...
It is all dependant...who is Gin. You know Aizen's Plan and Blind guys...But what is Gin's? You know he is far too different from those two. The problem with Gin as of now is...Is he a good guy or a bad guy? Could he just be going along with Aizen to figure out something or attian something? Could he be trying to change the world of SS? remember the Ryoka or whatever they called them outside the white gate. They seemed to be treated like crap almost. And how Gin found Matsmoto almost dead outside. Could he just want to change Soul Soceity is all? What is Gin and what is his purpose?
I am still going with...The key to all of this is the Hollow inside Ichigo.
eXistenZ
2007-06-10, 21:59
Ok bringing back a threadover a year old, but i was working the other day when thoughts crossed my mind. especially with recent episodes.
<ok maybe a couple months old>
Ichigo is royalty. possibly in direct ascension.
Issin his father is a regular shinigami, captain, also possibly a noble, his being in the real world is because he married a royal, being ichigo's mother. If the monarchy is only passed to the males. Hence his mother would never have inherited the throne.
My theory about the royal family is this, they arent shinigami, or quincy or any other group we have seen before. Ichigo has shown some of what i think are the powers of the royal family.
They have created the shinigami, I think soul society didnt have shingamis before those of the royalty came to them. And with the power they wield, it influenced the creation of shinigami.
Ichigo being royalty also has these powers and has unconiously influenced chad and orihime, and others around him. This didnt happen tho until these powers were unlocked within by rukia making him a shinigami.
Ichigo could be the next king, with the death of his mother he had urahara and yourichi watching over him. hence why they are in the real world and not being chased by the gotei 13 for disappearing from soul society.
this as always a theory
I think that at the present moment there isn't enough for us to make a guess at this.
However in my belief, Ichigo has got nothing to do with the King of the Soul Society. First of, before he was defeated by Byakuya he had regular Shinigami powers, one can say that those were mearly Rukia's powers, and his own had the ability to don a Hollow mask, and so forth. That's a big negative, the thing that one should be asuming is if Urahara inteded this for this to happen. Consider that he at no point seemed worried about what was going on, was it all part of his plan, or rather was this just a freak accident?
Consider that his high reitsu could attributed to Isshin being of high nobility. Byakuya says that those born of high nobility like himself are bestowed with greater reitsu than others. Isshin might have perhaps changed his name to hide his identity. I don't believe that Ichigo's mother has anything to do with the King, because even if she did run away, how could her death be something that was so easily brushed aside? Besides Isshin himself does not act in a manner of an aristocrat. He might not even be of high nobility, look at Gin, or Hitsugaya, whom came from nothing, yet have become Captains.
Now then, how can we classify the King as being something of a "God" like persona? Does he have to be ever powerful? Nobility and aristocracy have nothing to do with being all powerful, for all we know, if he does exist he could be some pansy aristocrat. So then what about the Royal Gaurd? Well they have to be strong, at least as strong as a Gotie 13 Captain, but not exactly stronger. Consider that if Aizen wasn't truly threat, and the King and Royal Gaurd could fend of the Espada and Aizen, then General Yamamoto wouldn't see a need to prepare for the war like they are doing now.
Out of all the people who should the exact makeup of the Soul Society, it's that 2000+ year old geezer. He know's the location to the key, and did I mention he's hella old? Knowledge like that just doesn't get passed on to the ignorant. Then what's not to say the Gotie 13 are not the strongest force? If we used the metaphor of a series of walls to describe the Soul Society, then they would initially be first all, then themselves would be the strongest, since they are should be able to stop any threat. I am fully aware that it could also be the vice versa.
Lastly, I just want to point out that there has to be some disparity in the Gotie 13 in terms of Captains, not something little but larger. For example I don't believe that Hitsugaya's comments regarding the 10 Vastoslorders, are true. He is in the lower third in terms of strength of Captains. One of those Arrancar even notes that his Bankai is incomplete because he's so young. Look at this way, when Urahara was about to take on Yami, if Ulqiuorra didn't step in, could Urahara have killed Yami?
Eh... to much to write.
eXistenZ
2007-06-13, 00:11
Im just thinking of the structure in a Japanese monarchy way. Take the current daughter of the japanese emperor, if she hadnt had a son, they were gonna have to change th laws to allow her to ascend the throne.
I applied that to bleach, were as Ichigo mother cant ascend the throne, and makes her a minor character in the royalty, while she had a son, her son became important as he could ascend the throne. Im not discounting that her role upon ichigo himself.
Further applying japans feudal system, the gotei 13 could be the equivalent of the shogun. The special Ops squad being the equivalant to ninjas.
As for the royal guard, it is my speculation that they are made up of those who are influenced by the royals power. So Orihime and Chad, and others like his sister, other classmates. Hence why there maybe has been no reaction any royal guard.
Also Ichigos mother leaving of heaven may not be a crime. Also about Isshin, i dont know if im remembering this right, but is he actually hiding from soul society, or just keeping a secret from his son, daughters so as not impose a destiny upon him before he has a chance to grow, stumble and grow more.
I almost forgot, maybe those of the female side of royalty dont express any power, but pass on the gene for males to express this power.
The old geezer, I was thinking of that, i dont remember even hearing how people age in soul society, it could be a 2000+ old geezer is the norm. Some of the flashbacks by rukia and others, it doesnt seem that they have aged a whole lot, it seems like it has been years since.
Also for urahara, maybe he already knew that this method worked due to the vaizard. Also, hougyoku that was sealed inside of rukia, maybe this is research into the kings powers, henceforth the creation of the advanced arrancar, moreso then anything of the past.
One last thing, zanpaktou<sp?>, i know with the shingami is basically a katana with a spirit. With Chad his zanpaktou manifested as what seemed like to him a powerful weapon, his arm. And Orihime her zanpaktou manifested in her precious hair pins. The arrancar may carry zanpaktou due to Aizens influence.
SaraPandora27
2007-06-13, 23:15
Im just thinking of the structure in a Japanese monarchy way. Take the current daughter of the japanese emperor, if she hadnt had a son, they were gonna have to change th laws to allow her to ascend the throne.
I applied that to bleach, were as Ichigo mother cant ascend the throne, and makes her a minor character in the royalty, while she had a son, her son became important as he could ascend the throne. Im not discounting that her role upon ichigo himself.
Further applying japans feudal system, the gotei 13 could be the equivalent of the shogun. The special Ops squad being the equivalant to ninjas.
As for the royal guard, it is my speculation that they are made up of those who are influenced by the royals power. So Orihime and Chad, and others like his sister, other classmates. Hence why there maybe has been no reaction any royal guard.
Also Ichigos mother leaving of heaven may not be a crime. Also about Isshin, i dont know if im remembering this right, but is he actually hiding from soul society, or just keeping a secret from his son, daughters so as not impose a destiny upon him before he has a chance to grow, stumble and grow more.
I almost forgot, maybe those of the female side of royalty dont express any power, but pass on the gene for males to express this power.
The old geezer, I was thinking of that, i dont remember even hearing how people age in soul society, it could be a 2000+ old geezer is the norm. Some of the flashbacks by rukia and others, it doesnt seem that they have aged a whole lot, it seems like it has been years since.
Also for urahara, maybe he already knew that this method worked due to the vaizard. Also, hougyoku that was sealed inside of rukia, maybe this is research into the kings powers, henceforth the creation of the advanced arrancar, moreso then anything of the past.
One last thing, zanpaktou<sp?>, i know with the shingami is basically a katana with a spirit. With Chad his zanpaktou manifested as what seemed like to him a powerful weapon, his arm. And Orihime her zanpaktou manifested in her precious hair pins. The arrancar may carry zanpaktou due to Aizens influence.
Hmm.. I doubt that Ichigo is the king or related to royalty or anything. It's probably just coincidence that his friends are affected by his power, maybe whatever hidden power he had has the ability to awaken his friend's powers. Besides, Orihime and Chad can't be shinigamis. It was suggested that perhaps what's on Chad's arm is a form of arrancar / hollow power (shit, I read this somewhere in the forum but I can't remember where :heh:)
Anyway, in the manga it was suggested that Orihime's powers are similar to that of another Vizard, the big guy.. so maybe she's also a Vizard? Who knows?
I think, the king is probably a different person altogether. At best, I can probably go for the theory that Ichigo might be a Royal Guard. But that's just me.
eXistenZ
2007-06-15, 21:55
I agree they arent shingami's, but i think the hollows, shingami, vaizard, arrancar, all draw power from the same place, after all, everyone even humans are part of the circle.
Think of it as a dice. Humans and everyone else a diffrent side of the same thing.
Chad and Orihime while not having zanpaktous, thier power has expressed it each of thier own tools.
As for Ichigo being royalty, maybe he isnt king, who knows, but what im saying is that those who reside and come from heaven have thier own power. Like maybe the arts is the power that is naturally exhibited in soul society, and with the nobles being of royal descent, influence new recruits into shinigami.
In the human world, the quincy are a natural power, and others like Chad and Orihime are the result of a royal influence.
In the hollow world they also have a natural power, not sure what it is, but without the royal influence they didnt "evolve" the powerful arrancar that they now have. Urahara with is hougyuku<?>, sought to recreate this type of power and with Aizen taking it, it influenced the hollows into a more complete and powerful arrancar.
now wht about the royal guard, are they more powerful than the 13 sqaud captains
Unkown but since part of thier job is to take care of menos level hollows they should be around vc level at least.
taking care of menos level hollows is really trashy if youve been watching the fillers, menos level hollow are being taken out by the likes of hanatarou.
im suprised KT hasnt expanded more on the royal guards yet.
Hanatarou was little more then a distraction and did not "take out the menos", Yumichika did, and he is clearly VC level.
If you're haveing a hard time buying that Hanatarou was able to wound it at all let me again point out Hanatraou wounding a menos is beliveable because 1) he is a seated officer and has the power of an officer (even if it is only a 7th seat) even if his combat skills aren't that impressive he is still combat trained 2) Used his shikai ablity which releases all the wounds it heals in a singal atack ( an atack that is powerful enuff to impress Kenpachi in the Omake of volume 22) 3) still did less damage then Ichigo did useing rukia's powers and an unreleased sword.
Animecentred
2007-11-16, 17:14
Okay, my theory may be totally wrong but here goes:
I think that the royal family's job is to mantain the balance between the different worlds, Human/Shinigami like in the analagy with the hourglass and the quincys power, they are like the force that mantains the flow. However i think that Issin did leave with Misaki (who i think was quite powerful) and eventually the royal family members left (probably the King, Prince (became a Menos Lorde) and Daughter (Orihimes ancestor))there were using all their power to maintain the balance and somehow they got cut off or sealed off from the rest of soul society and the sealing created the hollow world. This could explain why parts of soul society are run down due to the fact that the king is now focusing the remaining power only on the court of pure souls and the reason Aizen wants to take this seat of power is so that he can absorb the power rather than just maintain it.
Also i think the reason that Urahara knows Issin is that Issin helped him leave and that Issin went to him for a Gigai that could die of old age after his wife died.
id like to see how powerful the "royal guard" are
Wouldn't it make sense for the Royal Guard to be at least as strong as the captains, in case something like what happened with Aizen happened en masse?
if everyone just stops for a second, and imagines it this way...
the king is god.
he rules over everything and nothing in his own dimension..
he has no need to venture out of his sealed area, as he is almighty and powerful.
like in religion, the affairs of man are unimportant.
hence why, no one knows anymore than myth.
isshin might be king, as kurosaki.
but as with a religious god, he is above all.
and therefore does not need to be in contact with anyone.
even yamamoto, only knows where the key to his realm is.
nothing more, (as far as we are concerned).
if aizen destroys all realms but his own im sure he could just use an innummerable amount of spirit particles and make a complete new set.
the royal guard have to be stronger than the gotei thirteen also, if you take guarding the almighty seriously, as any number of captains could turn evil and set to destroy him.
this is all speculation though.
as usual.
Captain Roy
2007-11-23, 11:51
U guys need to keep in mind that The King of SS is not in the spiritual World .
it states that "he is located in the real World"
In the Bleach Character Book, they refer to a king that rules Soul Society. No name is given for him, just that Soul Society is ruled by him.
Character Book Info (http://inubros.net/bleach/log/2006/02/bleach-official_character_book_souls.html)
http://s01.imagehost.org/0509/Charbook-small.jpg (http://s01.imagehost.org/0509/Charbook-large.jpg)
Since we have never heard the existence of a king even mentioned in the course of the manga, I seriously wonder if that "king" really exists. Perhaps this he was killed ages ago. Perhaps when Aizen said that noone rules in heaven he was referring to the fact that the king's throne is empty.
This is all just speculation of course, but it does lead one to the amusing speculation that the real reason Ichigo is so ridiculously powerful is because he is descended from (or reincarnated from) the vanished King of Soul Society. Real? Who knows. It is just an amusing thought.
If someone could translate this picture, I would be grateful:
http://s01.imagehost.org/0509/SoulSocietyOrganization.gif
If anyone wants to comment with something that is only in the manga (you know what I mean), then make sure to use spoiler tags:
Manga r0x0r5
there is a king he is a young man bout byakuyas age with snow wight hair looks like
captain ukitake hes not i saw him once in picture the side of the picture --->that way is the 13 guard squads i dont know the rest i only speak romanji japanese not hiragana katakana or kanji!:)
hm...if shinigami can have kings then could Hollows as well? It would be interesting if they did.
Anyways, I read the official chinese version of the Bleach manga and the "imperial family" was indeed mentioned in my books. I don't know if this could be a translation error but they were mentioned. When the first Menos appears in volume 6 Rukia says something along the line, "Those (refering to the menos) are under the jurisdiction of the 王族 (the imperial family), no lone shinigami can go up against it."
So I don't think they just popped out of nowhere. Would someone like to check the japanese version? However it is an interesting thought that Ichigo may be a descendent. Or maybe the Hollow inside him has some relation? Or maybe Zangetsu?
the hollows do have kings the arancar are the hallow kings arancar are hollows who have brown free aizen is the main king of arancar and hollows and also a menos is a zillion different hollows put into one thats why there so big and hard to beat but in the beggining ichigo beats the first one.and ichigo is not a desendent there is a king he is at the monment in the human world i dont know why but he is he has snow wight hair looks like captain ukitake.but has purfectly streat hair and short bangs.
I didn't read through the entire thread, but I did catch some of the comments which speculate Ichigo being a decedent of the King. Because the series already shares some similarities to Yu-Yu-Hakusho, I'd find such a plot twist to be hilariously entertaining :p
WhiteWings
2007-11-26, 01:59
They get to the king and find a fossilized remains of a man in robes(or armor). That would be anticlimatic.
TheFallenOne
2007-11-27, 14:15
Doesn't it seem obvious that Isshin probably is the leader of the Shiba clan. Hence why Ichigo has a striking resemblence to Kaien. This would also show how he has skills surpassing the 13 squads and also the past with Urahara. Possibly Urahara gave him the same type of gigai that he gave to Rukia. Instead with him, he actually did turn human and was his powers became hidden. Years later his powers have returned to him and shows how he could both have had children and be a shinigami.
WONDERMIKE
2008-03-21, 22:07
ok, I guess we can agree that it won't take too long and we will see Aizen entering the king's dimension, everything else would be worthless right now, right? Telling us about the king, and the method to create the key/ouken etc.. Aizen's troops are definitely on par with the remaining Soul Society forces, the only factor that could switch the advantage would be the vizards(let's hope they won't interfere right now, it would be unfair for both sides and the winner is decided instantly = boring), or maybe a betrayal on Aizen's side, I don't have high expectations for the kidou corps/special forces
Yamamoto knows the key's location, so it could be one possibility that he already warned the king himself(assuming he is alive and residing in his dimension) and his royal guard is ready for Aizen's raid, or maybe Urahara, Yoruichi, Isshin and even Ryuken are waiting there for him as the last instance.
SuperManW3
2008-03-31, 02:48
according the the latest manga most of the vizard, if not all of them that have been shown were all soul society captains of the gotie 13 who were "promoted". with this piece of info its reasonable to assume that the vizard ARE the royal guard. another note, maybe when the captains are promoted to royal guard they become the vizard and are then able to use their hollow powers. this of coarse makes them more powerfull then any of the gotie 13. its also reasonable to assume that since isshin knows about the vizard he IS royalty, or at least connected to royalty somehow, maybe even he is also a vizard. that would certainly explain many things about ichigo and why the vizard took in ichigo.
another note... possibly isshin was a vizard, or royal gard if you will, who fell in love with a member of royalty, ichigos mother, who may have even been a princess,and escaped to the human world to be together.
ahhh soo many theories......
Fipskuul
2008-03-31, 02:55
with this piece of info its reasonable to assume that the vizard ARE the royal guard. That may have been the case, if they had old members within, other than the members that are most likely affected by the reason of Urahara's exile.
The Small One
2008-04-07, 02:27
I'm not sure if this fits completely into this thread, but since, it isn't possible to open a new one, I think this is the closest as it can get.
My question would be: What are the royal guards actually good for?
As we got to know in the recent chapters, captains that got promoted go to the royal guards, which means, that probably all of their members are much more powerful, than anything SS has to offer. Well, this isn't really a surprise I think, since most people actually expected this, however my question would be: Why?
It was mentioned several times, that the King (if there is one) and the royal guards are in a different dimension, and we know, that the King has basically no political power. He doesn't seem to care for SS, Hueco Mundo or the mortal world, and probably isn't even powerful himself. Why would such a person even need the most powerful Shinigami? Even if someone had the chance to kill the King, this person wouldn't gain anything (as far as we know) since the King doesn't hold any power. For such a person, a normal squad, with normal power levels should be enough, shouldn't it?
The only reason I can think of, would be that the royal guards are constantly fighting with a power even greater than any hollows and Shinigami together. Maybe some sort of demons from hell, or alien-souls from outer space, I don't know.
ForgedGlory
2008-04-07, 08:32
Don't you know? Kubo is the king of SS, when they finally reveal him, if they ever do, as he's actually irrelevant and is used for nothing more than a plot device, its gonna be a floating cropped out photographic head of kubo in a giant tube. that'll be epic, lol.
senbonzakura55
2008-07-05, 14:58
i think the king of soul society is zangestu ichigo's sword form http://www.masyria.com/kura/bb/images/avatars/1819332253453fc02d0317e.jpg
according the the latest manga most of the vizard, if not all of them that have been shown were all soul society captains of the gotie 13 who were "promoted". with this piece of info its reasonable to assume that the vizard ARE the royal guard. another note, maybe when the captains are promoted to royal guard they become the vizard and are then able to use their hollow powers. this of coarse makes them more powerfull then any of the gotie 13. its also reasonable to assume that since isshin knows about the vizard he IS royalty, or at least connected to royalty somehow, maybe even he is also a vizard. that would certainly explain many things about ichigo and why the vizard took in ichigo.
another note... possibly isshin was a vizard, or royal gard if you will, who fell in love with a member of royalty, ichigos mother, who may have even been a princess,and escaped to the human world to be together.
ahhh soo many theories......
where did you get that the vizards were promoted????? only 1 captain was promoted to the royal guard and she wasn't a vizard
Wouldn't it make sense for the Royal Guard to be at least as strong as the captains, in case something like what happened with Aizen happened en masse?
i would quite agree...i think only above average-lvl captains can be promoted to the royal guard
I dunno all these guesses make alot of sense, but i had a slight idea, ichigos dad, a shinigami we havent seen outsiide of his body in a long time, how was ichigo born if his mom was human as far as we know and his dad was a death god? i think his dad might have some sort of relation to royalty to pass the power ichigo evolved into so quickly. just an idea.... Hollow ichigo and ichigos dad seem like good plot twisters because you don't see them alot. as far as it comes to the vizards they hate shinigami, the reason? my guess is they might have had some part in soul society for awhile and got cast out for some reason <insert reason here> kinda like the underworld movies where the lycan gaurded the vampires but were cast out for a reason i dunno just a hunch let me know what you think.
Anyone think that Aizen or Old Man Yama could be descendants? Aizen is possible cause he might want to get revenge but still highly unlikely since he might want to overthrow the king.
Kyero Fox
2008-07-16, 00:13
i think the king of soul society is zangestu ichigo's sword form http://www.masyria.com/kura/bb/images/avatars/1819332253453fc02d0317e.jpg
that would be extreme XD
Konpachi
2008-07-16, 06:15
... Soul Society's King is or well was Kurosaki Isshin :o
Kyero Fox
2008-07-16, 11:07
... Soul Society's King is or well was Kurosaki Isshin :o
yea, I belive a lot of people would crap them selfs if that happened =\
WONDERMIKE
2008-07-16, 17:17
Anyone think that Aizen or Old Man Yama could be descendants? Aizen is possible cause he might want to get revenge but still highly unlikely since he might want to overthrow the king.
in Aizen's case I would definitely say no he isn't.. reason: his reaction on the beginning of the "Turn back the Pendulum" series when Shunsui told him about the Zero Division wasn't faked imo, as a royal descendant he should know about them
ok lets look at this in differant light and break it down in stead of guessing all over the place
1> ichgos a pure blood soul reaper
2.) his soul reaper powers was locked away ( either to hide the fact of his pure blood or protect him )
3.> ichgos hollow referrs to him as king ( even says in one of the esp that he really going to be king i look for the exact esp when i get a chance )
4.) the kings key ... well that does not tell use much even if you have the key wheres it fit
5.) as far as ichgos power it realy has nothing to do with either he king or not ( vizard have the same power )
there only 2 possible things that i can figure out so far with all the clues they gave so far either ichgos dad is king hiding or they will figure a way to throw us all for a loop with new story line that takes us a differant direction on who it is but for the most part i would say it ichgo dad and before you all say he use to be a captain are we so sure that what he was or part of his cover for showing us that he is a soul reaper
Bushido jones
2008-07-30, 13:57
I have a theory that Aizen Is the former king of the soul society and was exiled for Trying To Break Down The Barriers Between The Three Worlds once before and that the royal guards are meant to keep him from regaining power. He Fits The Description of A Amoral king. He is Calm, Collective, And His Strategies Seems To Always Perfect For Counter For The Soul Society's Plan OF Attack. I Also Think That Isshin Is A Former Royal Guard Who Was Exiled For Staying to Long In The Real World With His Family, Which Would Explain Why They Didn't Kill Him. Maybe They Knew That One Day He Would Return And That Isshin Woulb Be An Valuable Asset To The Soul Society.
CMHerrera
2008-07-30, 15:35
Soul Societys King, if there a king how did they know in the first place some one must have seen him right? What if a person that was there for a long time was the king like Yamamoto ?
mugenTaichou
2008-07-30, 15:43
4.) the kings key ... well that does not tell use much even if you have the key wheres it fit
the KEY is possessed by Renji.
3.> ichgos hollow referrs to him as king ( even says in one of the esp that he really going to be king i look for the exact esp when i get a chance )
and his Hollow also basically said if Ichigo messes up again, he will trample him (since he figuratively called himself the horse)
It was a metaphoric speech, don't think it has any implication on Soul Societies King.
LeminLyme
2008-07-31, 23:37
But don't disregard it either, cause noone knows what goes on Kubo's, and by extention, any character or figment of inner being's, head. :P
Marskatta
2008-08-02, 09:28
:twitch: This was explained a long time ago in the anime. Did you just forgot it, or did you really miss it at the time?
I dont remember the name of Uraharas assistant, but i bet he was in that group, and if you read the anime, you could see why i think so. :meh:
ashez2ashes
2008-08-03, 00:32
... Soul Society's King is or well was Kurosaki Isshin :o
I really really love this idea. Can you imagine the WTF faces the characters would have after finding out? :heh: Their reactions alone would be epic level hilarity.
Marskatta
2008-08-03, 11:41
I wanna see Isshins kanpaktou and Bankai!
He's too awesome.
I dont remember the name of Uraharas assistant, but i bet he was in that group, and if you read the anime, you could see why i think so. :meh:
Urahara's assistant was Mayuri who replaced him as the captain once Urahara was exiled. (For those thst missed it, he wqas exiled because Aizen framed him foor turning 5 captains and vice captains into the Vizard)
Ichigo's mother was a human with strong spiritual powers. Ichigo got his name (and plaque on his bedroom door) from the same source. Ichi = 1 and Go = 5. (The plaque read 15 if no one caught that)
The Royal guard are selected from among the Gotei 13's captains whom then get assigned to 0 division.
It was not Isshin that rescued Urahara, Tessai and the Vizard, it was Yoruichi as seen in the final chapter of Turn Back the Pendulum (Bleach -97: Let Stop The Pendulum)
Now then, my personal guess as to Isshin's origins are that he was a former captain long ago that was transfered to Division 0. He likely left on his own because he felll in love with and married Ichigo's mother.
Captain Yoruichi
2008-09-04, 16:56
As for the viazard or arrancar he would be either Gin or Aizen. Gins quirky personality makes him a good candidate for being a viazard or arrancar. He told Aizen about the hygoukyo and the fact that the king was also dead. Other weird things about Gin are his appearance at the gate when Icihgo and company arrived in SS. Most people believe it was because they were expecting Ichigo but you'll notice Gin didn't know it was them until he heard their names. My theory is Gin sensed something similar to him namely Icihgo and went to investigate. Also Yaruchi didn't want Icihgo to fight Gin saying he was too strong yet she doesn't interfere in his fight against Zaraki who's strong enough to think he can fight 2 VC and 2 Captains at the same time. It just doesn't make sense.
I think the reason Yoruichi didn't want Ichigo to fight Gin was because she knew Gin is part of Aizen's group. Whereas Kenpachi is not. It's probable that she and Urahara both knew from the start that Aizen was behind the order for Rukia's execution.
Sometimes I think Yamamoto mores know than he lets on, and he lets things happen just to make it more convincing. If Yoruichi helping Urahara and the Vizards escape was such a bad thing, why is the Shihoun family still a noble family? The Shiba family fell from grace for seemingly insignificant reasons in comparison. If Urahara doing what he did was so bad, why would Yamamoto go to him for help instead of just getting his replacement, Kurotsuchi, to do it? Is it just because now that Aizen betrayed them, Yamamoto understands what really happened in the Turn Back the Pendulum arc when Aizen framed Urahara?
Here's a wild theory. Maybe Urahara, Yoruichi, and Tessai being sent to the human world was just a cover-up for them protecting something more important. Like maybe they were preparing to protect the arrival of a new king. Sure, there's a huge time gap between them leaving SS and Ichigo being born, but considering how Urahara, Isshin, and Ryuuken all seem to know each other, maybe they were all just preparing for the arrival of the king. Maybe they even wanted to see if he could live a normal life, but then Rukia came and set the wheel of fate in motion, so they went to the original plan of training the new king (Ichigo).
Some food for thought. ^__^
LordStrike
2009-01-03, 11:50
ok i read all the post and this is what i have to say.
FIRST
about isshin i really don't think he is the KING. i rather go for the perspective that he was a sited officer in the 12 squad if you look at turn back the pendulum wen urahara introduced himself to the squad there was a little head behind to guys if you look closely it does look like isshin there is also a back shot that show the same dude and the hair stile match whit that of isshin.
maybe he got kick out or left whit kisuke and the reason he lost the powers was that he was some one that was in the experiment for the gigai that sucks power
SECOND
i ask would you place weak people to guard your king? i def would not do that stupid thing, no Mather if the king is strong or a pansy as we see in turn back the pendulum a captain was chosen for that seat so we can assume at least captain level are in that position.
second thing is as you can see in the movie diamond dust rebellion the royal family has pretty interesting object at there disposition who is not to say that they didn't use those object to power up the royal guards?
THIRD
Why wont the royal guard act wen SS is in trouble? that can be a simple question whit a simple answer they are the royal guard there duty is to the royal family not to SS, if SS falls then they have to prepare to defend the king or it can also be something as simple as they don't bud in to other business let SS defend for it self.
that what i think at least.
im not good at English so sorry for the miss spelling and all so sorry
Intranetusa
2009-01-03, 13:24
Wouldn't it be funny, if Aizen's revenge was really over love?
He had a girl friend, who got forced into a marriage into the royal family...so now he's pissed and wants to open the door to the royal society to get his revenge & save his girlfriend.
lawl
Intranetusa
2009-01-03, 13:31
The best political term to refer to the throne of SS would have been emperor.
After all, the SS bases the aristocracy on the ancient samurai feudalism.
However, if it was the author's choice then so "King" be it.
If it was ancient samurai feudalism, then 'king' would be correct. He would not be an emperor. An emperor is a leader of a highly centralized and bureaucratic state.
Feudal societies such as feudal Japan are lacking in bureaucracy and are very de-centralized. Power is concentrated at the local level. Post-Heian feudal Japan did have an 'emperor' - but it wasn't a real emperor, just a religious figurehead. He would be more comparable to a 'pope' than an actual emperor.
dustin4991
2009-01-19, 16:56
Well this is just a thought but, what if orhime and chad are descendants of royal guards this is just a thought it would explaine a lot
that would put a lot into perpective:cool:
Mr Hat and Clogs
2009-01-19, 22:18
I'm a real fan of the Isshin = King theory, if only because its so damn funny. Means he could save the day if he wanted to. But judging from his 'serious' side I think if he was the king he'd definitely consider it a dereliction of duty to go to the real world. But then again maybe he was just bored, and met Masaki when he was hop skipping around. It's an improbable but highly amusing theory.
If he was a king, wouldn't he have a bunch of people around him? Like, remember how many people were around the king's seal, so the king himself should have an army on his back all the time...(Not that he'd need it supposing he's the strongest soul around but you get the point xD)
Konpachi
2009-01-20, 03:57
^ Maybe he sneaked out like the hime in the filler arc (only watched the first few eps, so i forgot her name, it's somewhere in the back of my head).
And Masaki was his personal bodyguard, the only one who caught him escaping.
RDFMASTER
2009-01-20, 04:08
Shirosaki be the king ? I will like to see that XD
I prefer Ichigo's dad be the king. :)
The time will come to explain
i think soul society's king still exists because there would not be any need for the zero division who is said to be the king's personal guards.
If Isshin is the king, where are the Royal Guards??
Under Yuzu's bed, in Karin's closet, behind the sofa, hung on the ceiling and in the kitchen cupboards, no doubt about it.
Mr Hat and Clogs
2009-01-21, 06:53
If there is one thing kung-fu shows have taught us it should be that ninja guard dudes can pop out of just about anything, in mass numbers.
BaltazarDZ
2009-04-23, 09:25
I dunno. They goo all King and Kings Key in such a way that makes me almost think that King isn't an actual person but just a name for some kind of power.
Wargumm1i
2009-04-23, 09:39
I dont know why, but I find Ichigo just as mysterious as Aizen. I mean Aizen is of course a person who´s past and schemes also motives are unknown or just too little explained.
While Ichigo´s past has bin explained, but his heritage hasent, as well as his power is mysterious as well, because his power was so powerful it gave Orihime and Sado powers, as well as opened the eyes of many people and they can now see hollows or any supernatural activitys.
I mean Ichigo represents all three factors Humans/hollows/Shinigamis, which is a bit weird if you ask me, Im starting too wonder if Ichigo is royalty... I know its crazy, but I wonder if Ichigo is some sorta godly being and all the powers that Orihime and Sado´s gained were just mere copys of his own, which he has yet too display.
Kyero Fox
2009-04-23, 16:08
I'd lol if the Hat Shinigami (that saves the girl from the hollows before SS Vs Aizen starts)) is the SS King XD
Chaos Zangetsu
2009-04-23, 19:47
I seriously doubt it but you never know. I think there's only two possibilities really that I can imagine Kubo Tite going with for the plot:
1. Ichigo is of royal heritage and only Isshin knows.
2. There has been no king of SS for a long time.
3. There is or was a king and Ichigo is the prince born in the human world.
Now these are extremly summarized. I'd get specifc but it'd take up alot of space. It's even possible to join these possibilities.
I think Orihime is the kings daughter. You know..tanabata:D
ShinAkuma135
2009-04-23, 21:55
I think Orihime is the kings daughter. You know..tanabata:D
if thats true i will be a very angry man
It fits you know. The Orihime in the tanabata legend, was a goddess (godly powers anyone?) and a daughter of the sky king. Its really too much similarities here.
And she could be adopted into her earthly parents. Matsumoto said something about her parents in vol. 25 *goes to check*
EDIT: When Rangiku says "No-one has actually seen them" there is a darkened panel of Orihime, in vol. 25. Thats a pretty interesting remark by Kubo.
Wargumm1i
2009-04-24, 16:21
I seriously doubt that Orihime is anything godly, but dont forget it because Orihime and Sado were exposed to Ichigo´s ridiculously high reiatsu that created or gave Orihime and Sado there powers.
But it would be cool if Orihime and Sado´s powers were given too them too serve Ichigo.
Also what raises more questions about Ichigo and his father, that his father is a Shinigami and according too his appearance he was a captain during his term as a Shinigami, but what raises even more questions is why he is keeping his shinigami status a secret from Ichigo.
I mean I do understand he did it when Ichigo was unaware of the whole or atleast not deep enough in the Shinigami affairs, but now he has so little reason too keep it a secret unless he was not just any shinigami.
You wanna know what I think? I think that Ichigo´s father Isshin was a Shinigami captain who got promoted to Royal Guard, and there he met Ichigo´s mother Masaki who was royalty and fell in love, but due too his status as Royal Guard they was forbidden too be together so they decided too run away too the real world and Urahara helped out too conceal there identity and seal there spiritual reiatsu which made them human or atleast almost.
I know Masaki was said too be Human, but I think that Royalty are more closer too humans then too Shinigami´s in the soul society which is why Ichigo is human/shinigami.
Still even though very very little is known about Masaki except she was beautiful and very kind, it might be suggested that she had a very high-level reiatsu but seal it away along with her husbands reiatsu which made them no diffrent from humans.
Still im only making wild guesses since I love too make theorys.
Chaos Zangetsu
2009-04-24, 20:12
Also what raises more questions about Ichigo and his father, that his father is a Shinigami and according too his appearance he was a captain during his term as a Shinigami, but what raises even more questions is why he is keeping his shinigami status a secret from Ichigo.
I mean I do understand he did it when Ichigo was unaware of the whole or atleast not deep enough in the Shinigami affairs, but now he has so little reason too keep it a secret unless he was not just any shinigami.
You wanna know what I think? I think that Ichigo´s father Isshin was a Shinigami captain who got promoted to Royal Guard, and there he met Ichigo´s mother Masaki who was royalty and fell in love, but due too his status as Royal Guard they was forbidden too be together so they decided too run away too the real world and Urahara helped out too conceal there identity and seal there spiritual reiatsu which made them human or atleast almost.
Well, that is a possibility. We know for sure he's at least captain level and I personally think he's skilled enough and powerful enough to be at least in the Royal Guard if not being King himself.
Here's my theory: Isshin was the SS King and Masaki was the queen. For some reason a coup'deta forced him and Masaki to flee Soul Society and live in the human world and with help from Urahara got gigai that concealed their reiatsu. Since we don't know if gigai have the ability to reproduce or not, we can assume that they can make human babies with their gigai(which are basically artificial human bodies so they should be able to reproduce). Those babies eventually became Ichigo and his sisters.
Thus the Secret Royal Family Theory is born out of the SS King Theory.
Intranetusa
2009-04-27, 17:31
Well, that is a possibility. We know for sure he's at least captain level and I personally think he's skilled enough and powerful enough to be at least in the Royal Guard if not being King himself.
Here's my theory: Isshin was the SS King and Masaki was the queen. For some reason a coup'deta forced him and Masaki to flee Soul Society and live in the human world and with help from Urahara got gigai that concealed their reiatsu. Since we don't know if gigai have the ability to reproduce or not, we can assume that they can make human babies with their gigai(which are basically artificial human bodies so they should be able to reproduce). Those babies eventually became Ichigo and his sisters.
Thus the Secret Royal Family Theory is born out of the SS King Theory.
lawls...isshin and his entire family suxs ass...that's a fact
cheese no koma
2009-04-27, 20:06
Wouldn't it be funny, if Aizen's revenge was really over love?
He had a girl friend, who got forced into a marriage into the royal family...so now he's pissed and wants to open the door to the royal society to get his revenge & save his girlfriend.
lawl
Lolz, and have him replace ichigo as the protagonist? simply epic!! :heh:
lawls...isshin and his entire family suxs ass...that's a fact
lawls no wai? ur so smart lawl
Wargumm1i
2009-04-29, 16:34
lawls...isshin and his entire family suxs ass...that's a fact
I dont know what in the right mind you had too say that, but if it was just random comment then right back at ya.
lawls no wai? ur so smart lawl
I highly disagree its more of an ape intelligence.
Kyero Fox
2009-04-29, 19:30
I'd lol if the hat shinigami is the king (he shows up before they fight above the town and the hollows explode from the reitsu)
Chaos Zangetsu
2009-04-29, 22:07
Hey, while we're at it, how about say that Kon is the King? :D
Even better yet, how about we say that Orihime is the princess and doesn't know it yet....wait.....actually, I can believe that possible somehow........
the royal guards are stronger than the gotei 13. royal guards are known as the division 0. only highly level captain of gotei 13 get promoted and join royal gurads. they only serve the king and their other job is to defeat the menos class hollow. this proves that there are stronger than the gotei 13.
source:http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Royal_Guard
Chaos Zangetsu
2009-07-11, 10:07
The only thing with that explaination is that was how it was at the beginning of the series. If you remember Grimmjow's explaination of the classes of hollow you'd realize that arrancar were massively more powerful than menos and and other regular hollows. If the Gotei 13 have been fighting them on equal ground so far, then one of two things can be said:
1. Arrancar and espada are weaker than menos now (very unlikely)
2. Gotei 13 got alot stronger than menos class (most likely)
I believe you can figure that out. If Gotei 13 can do that, then every captain and almost any vice-captain can be in zero squad. That means standards have changed. Besides, if the Royal Guards were that much better, it would be more useful to have them destroy the best hollows there are as well which happen to be the Vasto Lordes class of hollow and not menos. Since they're handpicked the are the best of the best, but there job has expanded higher than weak menos most likely though is all I'm saying.
pchan712
2009-07-20, 17:04
I don't get why the royal guard hasn't showed up yet in the series. If they're supposedly more powerful than the gotei thirteen, then they should have been showing up to help out. Either that, or maybe they all changed thier shinigami powers into that Rejection thing that orihime has. They take souls out of soul society and reform then in the real world.
I can see the next arc be about the Royal Guard, and Vasto Lordes :S
magoocian
2009-08-09, 13:25
I have a couple speculative reasons we have yet to see the Royal Guard.
1) The Royal Guard have to protect the King at all costs so they likely can't leave all the time. Maybe they only handle Menos that somehow come near to or enter the King's Dimension.
2) There haven't been any Menos strong enough to for them to appear. It's obvious now that Gotei 13 handles hollow up to the level of Espada but there hasn't been any confirmation that any Espada are Vasto Lordes. It could be possible that none of them are. So who deals with them? The Royal Guard.
roriconfan
2009-08-09, 14:06
^Indeed. Even the top 4 Espada are Ajejukias (what's that name again?)
If this series hopes to have a hint of a sense, then no Vasto Lordes have appeared yet. They will appear when Zero Division pops up.
And of course, expect an Vasto Lorde Arrancar with 3 forms, stronger than even Aizen (his boss maybe).
So, is this King the ruler of Earth, like Kami in Dragonball? If yes, he can't be very strong if he needs bodyguards. At least Yama can take care of himself.
If this series hopes to have a hint of a sense, then no Vasto Lordes have appeared yet.
Don't be surprised if that doesn't turn out to be the case. Because there seems to be more and more evidence to suggest that Wonderweiss is a Vasto Lorde.
Kitsueki
2009-08-09, 16:17
The only thing with that explaination is that was how it was at the beginning of the series. If you remember Grimmjow's explaination of the classes of hollow you'd realize that arrancar were massively more powerful than menos and and other regular hollows. If the Gotei 13 have been fighting them on equal ground so far, then one of two things can be said:
1. Arrancar and espada are weaker than menos now (very unlikely)
2. Gotei 13 got alot stronger than menos class (most likely)
I believe you can figure that out. If Gotei 13 can do that, then every captain and almost any vice-captain can be in zero squad. That means standards have changed. Besides, if the Royal Guards were that much better, it would be more useful to have them destroy the best hollows there are as well which happen to be the Vasto Lordes class of hollow and not menos. Since they're handpicked the are the best of the best, but there job has expanded higher than weak menos most likely though is all I'm saying.
You're flawed here
1. Menos class includes Vasto Lorde, you are probably mistaking Menos to be excluded to the Gillian 's. So when it says fighting Menos class it includes Vasto Lorde.
2. Arrancar are not frequent until now, So the Gotei 13 fighting them is under special circumstance's
Second of all.. Im curious as to how Jak got that information, when was this ever said in the manga? Isnt the manga/anime the only place to get info such as that other than Kubo himself? o.o
Intranetusa
2009-08-09, 19:47
Lolz, and have him replace ichigo as the protagonist? simply epic!! :heh:
:D
lawls no wai? ur so smart lawl
I dont know what in the right mind you had too say that, but if it was just random comment then right back at ya.
I highly disagree its more of an ape intelligence.
You guys have failed to detect my utter hatred and malice for anything related to Ichitard. And my original lawls was towards the idea that a brainless turd of a family like issin's could be the royal family.
You guys have failed to detect my utter hatred and malice for anything related to Ichitard. And my original lawls was towards the idea that a brainless turd of a family like issin's could be the royal family.
well history has its fair share of idiot monarchs.
trying to keep the royal line 'pure' (*cough* incest *cough*) didn't work very well..
You guys have failed to detect my utter hatred and malice for anything related to Ichitard. And my original lawls was towards the idea that a brainless turd of a family like issin's could be the royal family.
My initial lawls was because I thought you made a stupid comment as a joke. Now my lawls are because you were being serious and because you cared enough to quote a post I didn't remember posting to explain the reason you posted your previous post. lawl
Kitsueki
2009-08-10, 08:35
Wtf Gin, rofl.
No seriousness in a discussion Intranet!
Everything will be perfectly fine even if all our point's and opinion's aren't spelled out.
Edit: Also, can you explain how Ichigo's family is brainless? :heh:
EEK! It's a lawl brawl! we're gonna need rofl proof kevlar haha
Anywhoosen, I think that the royal garud are just kinda chillin right now and when it get's way to bad out there they'll just be like, "oh by the way this is over BAM" and just kinda whoop all butts within the vacinity. But that's just my silly little theory :3
roriconfan
2009-08-10, 10:08
^Science has the answers for you. The reason the royal guard hasn't appeared is because...
1. They are so strong, that even Aizen's threat feels unimportant to them. Just like the econimic depression feels unimportant to rich people like Bill Gates.
2. They are occupied dealing with even more dangerous opponents than Aizen at the moment to deal with a pest like him (just like the Admirals in One Piece). In our case, it may be a Vasto Lorde Arrancar army with 3 forms each, the leader of which is Aizen's boss.
3. The series follows the laws of level gridding. That is, it introduces new characters only when the hero is close enough to get a power up to defeat them. If not, they are so strong, that one is invisible to another because of their gap in power.
Kitsueki
2009-08-10, 13:27
^Logic has the answers for you. The reason the royal guard hasn't appeared is because...
1. They are so strong, that even Aizen's threat feels unimportant to them. Just like the econimic depression feels unimportant to rich people like Bill Gates.
2. They are occupied dealing with even more dangerous opponents than Aizen at the moment to deal with a pest like him (just like the Admirals in One Piece). In our case, it may be a Vasto Lorde Arrancar army with 3 forms each, the leader of which is Aizen's boss.
3. The series follows the laws of level gridding. That is, it introduces new characters only when the hero is close enough to get a power up to defeat them. If not, they are so strong, that one is invisible to another because of their gap in power.
Fix'd
Sadly that barely exists in Bleach ;)
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