View Full Version : [Manga] Chapter 295 Discussion
ShikaShika
2006-02-16, 04:41
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Naruto's ball of chakra enters his mouth and seconds later there's a big blast in the direction of Orochimaru. Orochimaru, having anticipated it, summons Sanjuu Rashoumon (same as Sakon's, just three of them). It seems it didn't help him much as he looks toppled over (well I guess he'd look a bit worse without the gates), but all of a sudden Orochimaru's head emerges from the ground with the sword of Kusanagi nailing Naruto to a cliff.
Maybe I'd feel more emotional if I could actually see Naruto, it's a bit hard to sympathise with a big black ugly monster. :p Anyway, I'm sure this is for from over.
Lackadaisical
2006-02-16, 04:58
Naruto's already had a chidori stabbed into him without any adverse effects that couldn't be healed by Kyuubi. Given that he is in a even more developed state now, I'd agree Naruto isn't going to be to hurt so badly that the fight ends by being stabbed with a sword.
Still this fight seems passingly boring. I'm trying to be interested but I really don't care about who wins. The lack of any real drama is idly bothersome.
Looks like Naruto is going to lose, Orochimaru has a way to counter everything Naruto throws at him and now Naruto's stabbed. He will need to transform again to have any chance. Right now it's just monster vs monster. One wild beast with infinite chakra vs a guy with immortality.
I think those Rashoumon are stronger versions? They are like a building tall each.
I found it rather cool how Orochimaru used both hands to summon three Rashoumons, but it was... anti-climatic to see him sprawled on the ground after that.
I guess unless someone had fought Orochimaru before, he must always be on guard. Who other than Orochimaru that's alive can extend his neck 1km long with a sword coming out of his mouth.
timeless
2006-02-16, 05:23
All I can say is, can't wait till this arc get animated.
It's a rather short chapter... 2 moves during the fight ^^'
Those 3 gates Orochimaru made it' the kind of thing Sakon and Ukon summoned when fighting Kiba...
What does it actually do ? Suck in people or souls like that gate in the recent Bleach episodes ?
That black ball sure did vaporize all three of them ... what a powerful attack, but coming from Kyuubi, I hoped it would have been something special, instead of a high speed concentrated chakra Rasengan like move.
Looks like I'm right when I think of Orochimaru as a monster/demon as well...
The sword Orochimaru used to pin down Naruto on that rock, is that the true power of his Kusanagi ? O_o
Poor Naruto ... if that attack was his trumpcard, Orochimaru might kill him ... That's maybe where Sai or Yamato comes in ?
I don't remember Sakon's Rashoumon to be that huge. Those three monstrosity Orochimaru summoned were like towers!
I think most of us still believes Sai has bad intentions, whatever it is. Unless Naruto becomes even more powerful, it looks like Sai doesn't have to do anything because Orochimaru currently has the upper hand.
Not not with bad intentions Kenta; maybe Sai's to get Naruto out of that bad situation. If he has bad intention, now would be the moment to strike as Naruto is pinned to the ground.
Basically Root ANBU is there to protect Konoha, not destroy it.
Besides, he's observing and hiding atm... And Yamato is observing as well. There's not much they can do while these two are fighing.
Orochimaru says that if that "black ball" of narutos hit him it'd kill him, i find that really dissapointing, i expected more from orochimaru.
Orochimaru sure has been impressive but i wonder, it hints narutos gonna grow another tail .... might get creepy >_<.
Im starting to think orochimaru is a joke compared to the 9 tails honestly.
It's a rather short chapter... 2 moves during the fight ^^'
Those 3 gates Orochimaru made it' the kind of thing Sakon and Ukon summoned when fighting Kiba...
What does it actually do ? Suck in people or souls like that gate in the recent Bleach episodes ?
That black ball sure did vaporize all three of them ... what a powerful attack, but coming from Kyuubi, I hoped it would have been something special, instead of a high speed concentrated chakra Rasengan like move.
Looks like I'm right when I think of Orochimaru as a monster/demon as well...
The sword Orochimaru used to pin down Naruto on that rock, is that the true power of his Kusanagi ? O_o
Poor Naruto ... if that attack was his trumpcard, Orochimaru might kill him ... That's maybe where Sai or Yamato comes in ?
Wasebt there someone that posted that Kyuubi could use a shit load of more attacks (think it was a while back) creating genjutsus that would take the prey to another dimension/world?
Sai's mission has something to do with Naruto all right, but I doubt it's saving him. Most likely to eliminate Naruto if he goes berserk like he is right now.
Btw, anyone, whoever it is, that takes that ball head-on without any kind of defense will instantly die or lose a few limbs. That is a high density formed shot, a super concentrated cannon. This is good right now, if Orochimaru took it head on and comes out unscathed, it would look even more like DBZ.
astayanax
2006-02-16, 07:23
Are people still going to say crap how a 4 tailed Naruto is invincible? Or are they finally going to listen to the fact that Orochimaru can easily wipe the floor with him? Had been saying this for weeks, but people keep on looking for excuses. If the 4th can beat a 9 tailed Kyuubi, it would be retarded if people like Orochimaru can't beat a 4 tailed version.
Just as expected, Kusanagi came into the scene and just as expected, it wtfpowned Naruto in 1.
The sword Orochimaru used to pin down Naruto on that rock, is that the true power of his Kusanagi ?
Not even close. Kusanagi is as powerful as Kyuubi itself in the demon stories, and is probably the only item capable of truly killing it. Now, I am not sure how closely Kishimoto is going to follow this, but so far he is doing a good job portraying it.
Now the question (still) is this. When is Akatsuki and/or Jiraiya going to save Naruto? ;)
astayanax
2006-02-16, 07:27
Wasebt there someone that posted that Kyuubi could use a shit load of more attacks (think it was a while back) creating genjutsus that would take the prey to another dimension/world?
Thats the MS you are thinking about probably.
Are people still going to say crap how a 4 tailed Naruto is invincible? Or are they finally going to listen to the fact that Orochimaru can easily wipe the floor with him? Had been saying this for weeks, but people keep on looking for excuses. If the 4th can beat a 9 tailed Kyuubi, it would be retarded if people like Orochimaru can't beat a 4 tailed version.
Just as expected, Kusanagi came into the scene and just as expected, it wtfpowned Naruto in 1
The attack kyuu bi naruto done would of killed oro if it hit him, orochimaru is dissappointing really if 4 tails can do that to him.
Not even close. Kusanagi is as powerful as Kyuubi itself in the demon stories, and is probably the only item capable of truly killing it. Now, I am not sure how closely Kishimoto is going to follow this, but so far he is doing a good job portraying it.
It not as powerful as kyuubi, didnt the 8 tails use kusanagi as well but still lost to kyuubi? ... the kyuu bi beat all the demons/artifacts.
Not even close. Kusanagi is as powerful as Kyuubi itself in the demon stories, and is probably the only item capable of truly killing it. Now, I am not sure how closely Kishimoto is going to follow this, but so far he is doing a good job portraying it.
Now the question (still) is this. When is Akatsuki and/or Jiraiya going to save Naruto? ;)
That might be an interesting evolution, but for what reason might Akatsuki try to save Naruto ? Not because they feel sorry for him.
Should it be possible, I can only imagine they do it to get their hands on Kyuubi and in the second place, maybe "train" or "teach" Naruto something so he can eliminate Orochimaru for Akatsuki and indirectly eliminate Sasuke as well.
But knowing Naruto's character, it seems unlikely he'll accept, even if they tell him it's to save Sasuke.
I don't see him teaming up with some of the hidden villages' mutual ennemy. He might be forced to do so but not by himself.
lotus_lee
2006-02-16, 07:36
Are people still going to say crap how a 4 tailed Naruto is invincible? Or are they finally going to listen to the fact that Orochimaru can easily wipe the floor with him? Had been saying this for weeks, but people keep on looking for excuses. If the 4th can beat a 9 tailed Kyuubi, it would be retarded if people like Orochimaru can't beat a 4 tailed version.
No, Yondiame never beat Kyuubi. He only just sealed him.
Thats the MS you are thinking about probably.
No, in a slide from a previous chapter, KN did something with his eyes which spooked Orochimaru. That's when many fellow forumites started speculating about Kyuubi's own Genjutsu.
astayanax
2006-02-16, 07:39
The attack kyuu bi naruto done would of killed oro if it hit him, orochimaru is dissappointing really if 4 tails can do that to him.
Well doh, Orochimaru is still human. I am not disputing the raw power of Naruto; but raw power is only one aspect of a character's strength.
It not as powerful as kyuubi, didnt the 8 tails use kusanagi as well but still lost to kyuubi? ... the kyuu bi beat all the demons/artifacts.
The 8 tails didn't even begin to use the true powers of Kusanagi. It had realized this after the defeat and hence why it is looking for it again to retrieve the true powers. We have to bear some other things in mind as well:
- The 8 tails used to be the weakest demon.
- With an ounce of Kusanagi power, it easily crushed the other 7 demons and fought Kyuubi for well over a 100 years
astayanax
2006-02-16, 07:41
That might be an interesting evolution, but for what reason might Akatsuki try to save Naruto ? Not because they feel sorry for him.
Because if Naruto dies, Kyuubi is lost 'forever' (or at least a very long time).
No, Yondiame never beat Kyuubi. He only just sealed him.
Which implied that he beated him. The 4th had Kyuubi's soul in his hand and could had done anything he wanted with it; which includes killing him. However, he wanted the village to have its own demon.
It was a draw... when do you people understand it. Yondaime died, Kyuubi lives. You need any more proof^^
astayanax
2006-02-16, 07:56
It was a draw... when do you people understand it. Yondaime died, Kyuubi lives. You need any more proof^^
And this is where the flaw comes in. Kyuubi lives - only because the 4th wanted him to. a dead Kyuubi would be useless for Konoha as an ultimate weapon no?
I'm happy to that someone agrees as well that Yondaime sealed Kyuubi inside Naruto so that Konoha could have its own Jinchuriki, giving them a not to understimate military advantage over all the other countries.
It's said that Leaf country had a strong military influence over the others... Maybe one day, we'll get to see another Great War.
Well doh, Orochimaru is still human. I am not disputing the raw power of Naruto; but raw power is only one aspect of a character's strength.
The 8 tails didn't even begin to use the true powers of Kusanagi. It had realized this after the defeat and hence why it is looking for it again to retrieve the true powers. We have to bear some other things in mind as well:
- The 8 tails used to be the weakest demon.
- With an ounce of Kusanagi power, it easily crushed the other 7 demons and fought Kyuubi for well over a 100 years
And where exactly did you get this "He only used an ounce of kusanagis power and was almost cabable of fighting kyuubi evenly?" info from? The demon stories might be interesting read, but I don't think you can use them as facts when talking about narutoverse and who would win vs who. We don't even know how serious kyuubi was when fighting the 8-tails.
EDIT: I also doubt the fight will end here, Kiyubi will most likely just heal the wound and the fight starts again, maybe giving orochimaru a serious shock when it did no harm to naruto. It would be pretty lame if the fight would end like this if you ask me, even sarutobi was able to live for almost +10 episodes after he got stabbed by that thing. ;)
I agree with Axtayanax, I don’t expect this version of Kyuby –A version that is only created trough a seal, and not the demon itself- to beat Orochimaru, Maybe Naruto form has the power to kill Orochimaru, but so does Konohamaru with a Kunai.
For Me Orochimaru is the main Villain, and will remain it until the end of the series, IMO, we have not seen Orochimarus full powers yet.
I agree with Axtayanax, I don’t expect this version of Kyuby –A version that is only created trough a seal, and not the demon itself- to beat Orochimaru, Maybe Naruto form has the power to kill Orochimaru, but so does Konohamaru with a Kunai.
For Me Orochimaru is the main Villain, and will remain it until the end of the series, IMO, we have not seen Orochimarus full powers yet.
Orochimaru might be the main villain, but its obvious naruto will beat him eventually. With Kiyubi, or alone, its just matter of time. Thats how it goes, it always does, naruto eventually becomes the hokage and the serie ends. You said we haven't seen the full power of orochimaru, you are correct, but we still haven't seen the full power of kiyubi nor naruto for that matter either, so lets wait and see.
Orochimaru might be the main villain, but its obvious naruto will beat him eventually. With Kiyubi, or alone, its just matter of time. Thats how it goes, it always does, naruto eventually becomes the hokage and the serie ends. You said we haven't seen the full power of orochimaru, you are correct, but we still haven't seen the full power of kiyubi nor naruto for that matter either, so lets wait and see.
No, that’s not how it always goes, You are creating an End that has not been made, an end that is the one you want to see, that does not even contemplate the countless possibilities: Why should Naruto be the one who beet Oro? Why not any of the Sannins? How do you know Naruto will become Hokage? In fact Naruto could just die protecting his friends at the end of the series, while Tsunade still been the Hokage.
And Finally, We have not seen the full power of Kyuby, but we are seen Naruto’s limits using Kyuby’s power.
Well doh, Orochimaru is still human. I am not disputing the raw power of Naruto; but raw power is only one aspect of a character's strength.
The 8 tails didn't even begin to use the true powers of Kusanagi. It had realized this after the defeat and hence why it is looking for it again to retrieve the true powers. We have to bear some other things in mind as well:
- The 8 tails used to be the weakest demon.
- With an ounce of Kusanagi power, it easily crushed the other 7 demons and fought Kyuubi for well over a 100 years
Easily crushed them? Where did you get this from? (8 tail has only fought 5 of the demons, where he beat 4 of them and lost the 5th against Kyuubi. Kyuubi is not called the king of the youmas for nothing, it doesn't state anything in the story that he never used the true powers of Kusanagi.
Quote from the story of 8-tails:
Yamata no Orochi proceeds to defeat many of the Bijuu, but when it battles with Kyuubi, it is defeated. The cause of this is simple: Kyuubi has an unlimited amount of power, making even a hole in the Kusanagi sword. As this happens, it shows how tremendously powerful Kyuubi is, deserving of the ?King of Bijuu? title.
astayanax
2006-02-16, 09:49
Quote from the story of 8-tails:
Yamata no Orochi proceeds to defeat many of the Bijuu, but when it battles with Kyuubi, it is defeated. The cause of this is simple: Kyuubi has an unlimited amount of power, making even a hole in the Kusanagi sword. As this happens, it shows how tremendously powerful Kyuubi is, deserving of the ?King of Bijuu? title.
How about reading the rest of the story that shows Orochi waiting for the genius to awaken him. Orochi is not retarded. He won't fight Kyuubi again unless he feels he can now win, and the reason he feels he can now win was because he wasn't using all of Kusanagi's powers in the first place (remember he more or less stole this sword and immediately focus out energy to attack all the other demons). One thing to bear in mind here. It still took Kyuubi over a 100 years to defeat Orochi, and more than likely because Orochi made a mistake. I came to this conclusion because the other demons Kyuubi defeated was said to be beated to an inch of their lives; yet Orochi was simply defeated.
astayanax
2006-02-16, 09:50
I am sure Orochimaru is going to die, but not by a 4 tailed Naruto. My suspects:
- Jiraiya
- 9 tailed Kyuubi (note I didn't say Naruto)
- Kabuto
- new character
Are people still going to say crap how a 4 tailed Naruto is invincible? Or are they finally going to listen to the fact that Orochimaru can easily wipe the floor with him? Had been saying this for weeks, but people keep on looking for excuses. If the 4th can beat a 9 tailed Kyuubi, it would be retarded if people like Orochimaru can't beat a 4 tailed version.
Just as expected, Kusanagi came into the scene and just as expected, it wtfpowned Naruto in 1.
Not even close. Kusanagi is as powerful as Kyuubi itself in the demon stories, and is probably the only item capable of truly killing it. Now, I am not sure how closely Kishimoto is going to follow this, but so far he is doing a good job portraying it.
Now the question (still) is this. When is Akatsuki and/or Jiraiya going to save Naruto? ;)
First, Naruto has something even a Team orochimaru fan like yourself can never deny. It is called a plot shield, and it is the true ultimate defens, there is no way anybody will ever kill Naruto, and it should be clear that we will see him becoming the most powerful shinobi and hokage in the whole narutoverse.
Like it or not, this is a truth that is bound to happen.
Second, you may wish to stop referring to the legend. As you might remember, Kishimoto BASED the story on it, not everything is like it is in the legend. In addition, even in the legend Kyubi defeated each and every other demon and was the unmatched strongest among them.
@Topic
Sounds good to me. Although I personally don't see anyting capable of taking down Naruto or Kyubi, it would feel a bit strange if he would beat Orochimaru already. After all there are like what?, 20 years difference between them?
I am just curious who we will see as the "final boss", Orochimaru, or Akatsuki? Sooner or later they might start attacking each other.
I am really looking forward to some fights with CLEAR ends, that show us who is stronger than who, or at least who did beat who.
I am getting a little tired of this exchanging punches thing and then go away again.
I really liked the Chunin exam arc, Kishimoto clearly showed who was stronger than who there.
BTW, anyone knows if we see Sai or Yamato in this chapter?
astayanax
2006-02-16, 10:05
First, Naruto has something even a Team orochimaru fan like yourself can never deny. It is called a plot shield, and it is the true ultimate defens, there is no way anybody will ever kill Naruto, and it should be clear that we will see him becoming the most powerful shinobi and hokage in the whole narutoverse.
Hence my question at the end of that quote. I was wondering if you overlooked it.
As you might remember, Kishimoto BASED the story on it, not everything is like it is in the legend.
Again, if you read my quote you will notice I am well awared of this. What is important is that Kyuubi defeated Orochi, however Orochi is waiting for opportunity to be awakened by the 'one' obtaining his full/true powers and consequently getting his rematch with Kyuubi.
Although I personally don't see anyting capable of taking down Naruto or Kyubi
The 4th took down Kyuubi.
Hence my question at the end of that quote. I was wondering if you overlooked it.
Again, if you read my quote you will notice I am well awared of this. What is important is that Kyuubi defeated Orochi, however Orochi is waiting for opportunity to be awakened by the 'one' obtaining his full/true powers and consequently getting his rematch with Kyuubi.
The 4th took down Kyuubi.
That's what I get for rushing my posts.
I am sorry, It seems like I did overlook half of your post :rolleyes:
In that case I agree with what you said.
Just one more thing, Kyubi was not sealed in Naruto back then, hence he was lacking a plot shield. So Naruto+Kyubi=Ultimate Demon with plot shield -->It is not really a logic in-narutverse thing, but it will make him untouchable. That's what I meant with no one can beat him.
astayanax
2006-02-16, 10:22
For plot wise purposes, Naruto will remain unkillable (and not undefeatable) for quite some time.
I do suspect though that Akatsuki will be successful in pulling out Kyuubi from Naruto, and Naruto will end up more like the 4th, but with demon-ish chakra due to the long time Kyuubi was sealed inside of him.
No, that’s not how it always goes, You are creating an End that has not been made, an end that is the one you want to see, that does not even contemplate the countless possibilities: Why should Naruto be the one who beet Oro? Why not any of the Sannins? How do you know Naruto will become Hokage? In fact Naruto could just die protecting his friends at the end of the series, while Tsunade still been the Hokage.
And Finally, We have not seen the full power of Kyuby, but we are seen Naruto’s limits using Kyuby’s power.
I might be creating an end to the serie that doesn't have ending made, but 99,9% chance naruto WILL become a hokage in the end of serie, I doubt there will be drama ending to naruto where naruto dies and the serie ends, if this happens, I applaud to kishimoto for having the balls to do it, but ITS HARDLY going to happen.
Naruto will most definately become the strongest shinobi in the serie for sure thanks to the ultimate plotshield, you have to be truly in denial to think naruto wouldn't become way stronger than sasuke, orochimaru or jiraiya in the future. It might take time, but it will happen, like it or not.
For plot wise purposes, Naruto will remain unkillable (and not undefeatable) for quite some time.
I do suspect though that Akatsuki will be successful in pulling out Kyuubi from Naruto, and Naruto will end up more like the 4th, but with demon-ish chakra due to the long time Kyuubi was sealed inside of him.
Very interesting ^^
But he'll definitely lose his demonish chakra without Kyuubi inside him...
What would be the source of his extra chakra then ? Maybe his stamina will still remain high, but definitely not the level of chakra...
Or he should be able to control his chakra at such a level that with a tiny amount he's able to increase the effect 10, 100 fold or more than what another shinobi can do.
I don't recall, but Gaara host his ability too in the end, after Chiyo obaasan gave her life to save him?
LeafNinja
2006-02-16, 10:37
I'm curious about what Yamato is waiting on. If he has the ability to control Naruto, is he afraid they do not stand a chance against Orochimaru, and it's better for the crazed Naruto to try and take him on?
I'm curious about what Yamato is waiting on. If he has the ability to control Naruto, is he afraid they do not stand a chance against Orochimaru, and it's better for the crazed Naruto to try and take him on?
yeah I'm curious about this aswell, I think we will see him move in in the next chapter or 297, next chapter will probably be another power-up for naruto.
I'm curious about what Yamato is waiting on. If he has the ability to control Naruto, is he afraid they do not stand a chance against Orochimaru, and it's better for the crazed Naruto to try and take him on?
Where was it stated that Yamato could control Naruto in his kyubified version? As far as I remember the only way to do so would be that sealing paper thing Ero Senin gave Kakashi. And it does not look like one could go up to Naruto and use it on him now.
Very interesting ^^
But he'll definitely lose his demonish chakra without Kyuubi inside him...
What would be the source of his extra chakra then ? Maybe his stamina will still remain high, but definitely not the level of chakra...
Or he should be able to control his chakra at such a level that with a tiny amount he's able to increase the effect 10, 100 fold or more than what another shinobi can do.
I don't recall, but Gaara host his ability too in the end, after Chiyo obaasan gave her life to save him?
Who ever made that unwritten rule up that a shinobi has to be weak when he does not have a blood line limit or a demon. Think of Sarutobi or Yondaime. Why shouldn't Naruto be able to become a strong Hokage without Kyubi?
Ad Gaara: It was not shown, but we can assume that his demon powers and his massive Sand control are gone now. There is a possibility that his protective snad did remain, as it should have been a result of the jutsu of his mother. Never the less he should be around the level of an average Chunin or Jonin now. Too bad, I really liked him.
I might be creating an end to the serie that doesn't have ending made, but 99,9% chance naruto WILL become a hokage in the end of serie, I doubt there will be drama ending to naruto where naruto dies and the serie ends, if this happens, I applaud to kishimoto for having the balls to do it, but ITS HARDLY going to happen.
Naruto will most definately become the strongest shinobi in the serie for sure thanks to the ultimate plotshield, you have to be truly in denial to think naruto wouldn't become way stronger than sasuke, orochimaru or jiraiya in the future. It might take time, but it will happen, like it or not.
Again, This are thing that might happen,but not the things that will really happen, and you even changed your perspective of the end, You said:
Naruto would become Hokage and Kill Oro, when there could very well more type of endidngs than the one you are creating.
And 99.9%?, you can just say That: I’m kishimoto or Im Nostradamus so I know how the manga will end, please don’t make this type of remarks, you are just insulting other peoples opinon on the subject.
And Kishimoto doesn’t need balls to kil Naruto, when Killing the main character is not a sacred thing in Manga.
Crusaders
2006-02-16, 10:47
This is getting bored....i don't think this chapter make sense....
Orochimaru says that if that "black ball" of narutos hit him it'd kill him, i find that really dissapointing, i expected more from orochimaru.
Is this some kind of joke?
You really expected Orochimaru to take the full power of one of the most powerful and destructive attack displayed since the beginning of the show at point blanck without dying?
The only ones I can see able to survive a direct impact of such attack are arguably Gozdilla-class summon such as Gamabunta, Manda & co and I doubt even them could handle more than 2~3 attacks without being completely destroyed.
Where was it stated that Yamato could control Naruto in his kyubified version? As far as I remember the only way to do so would be that sealing paper thing Ero Senin gave Kakashi. And it does not look like one could go up to Naruto and use it on him now.
It was stated that He can, because he has the 1st ability to do so.
I think this was explained somewhat by Chiyobo that there is a waiting period to be honored before they actually take the beast for extraction.
I believe the period is when the beast somewhat takes over the user body and is only extracted once the beast's chakra is drained.
So back then I think Naruto didn't even use the 9-tails Chakra much, only once in a while...ANd when Kisame took away that chakra Itachi noticed that it wasn't that much and they would have a hell of a time extracting it from Naruto at that point.
Maybe it's just the point of how close to reality the beast has gotten - and that's in the form of how much of the human body it has mixed/devoured...
I think Oro is completely 100% the snake beast
What Naruto used is a sufficiently strong technique that would have killed Oro according to Oro. And as mentioned in the previous chapter discussions, if he didn't have that kind of summon, he would have vaporized with such a technique. Orochimaru taking out that summon shows pretty much how the fight is not an easy fight for him as opposed to some's views.
And the Kusanagi is not a big deal for a continuously healing and shape changing opponent. So what will Oro do now? And what will Kyuubi-Naruto do now? I don't think Oro win that easily. Kyuubified Naruto does show only a single technique, whereas the great Oro had to use techniques over techniques just to "stop" Kyuubified Naruto. It would be amazingly stupid if the fight ends like that.
And Astayanax you cannot call the result of a fight as beating if you die in the process whereas your opponent continues to stay alive.
Who ever made that unwritten rule up that a shinobi has to be weak when he does not have a blood line limit or a demon. Think of Sarutobi or Yondaime. Why shouldn't Naruto be able to become a strong Hokage without Kyubi?
Ad Gaara: It was not shown, but we can assume that his demon powers and his massive Sand control are gone now. There is a possibility that his protective snad did remain, as it should have been a result of the jutsu of his mother. Never the less he should be around the level of an average Chunin or Jonin now. Too bad, I really liked him.
I never said Naruto is weak... On the contrary, I'm one of those encouraging him ;)
I've no idea how you came to the conclusion he's weak with what I said. I only meant that when Kyuubi is gone, the "demonish" chakra is gone as well (unless proven wrong)
Then I suggested he might reach a similar level by very precise control of his chakra output and maybe develop a technique to increase its power: "doing more with less"
Something a little like what Tsunade, Kabuto or Neji. They also have a special way to control their chakra for i.e. surgery or deal damage to the organs / chakra flow.
And this is where the flaw comes in. Kyuubi lives - only because the 4th wanted him to. a dead Kyuubi would be useless for Konoha as an ultimate weapon no?
Did I deny that?
astayanax
2006-02-16, 11:29
No, but people are implying how the 4th can't kill Kyuubi when in reality, that was far from the case as he could had killed him easily - if he wanted. We know how the death god jutsu works so it is pretty obvious at some point in the battle, the 4th had Kyuubi's soul in his arm and could had done anything he wanted with it.
What Naruto used is a sufficiently strong technique that would have killed Oro according to Oro. And as mentioned in the previous chapter discussions, if he didn't have that kind of summon, he would have vaporized with such a technique. Orochimaru taking out that summon shows pretty much how the fight is not an easy fight for him as opposed to some's views.
To me, Orochimaru is still enjoying the fight and not taking it too seriously although we both agree at this time that he is seeing Naruto in a much different light now. I am not so surprised to see Orochimaru throwing jutsu after jutsu as he is in fact a jutsu specialist and in terms of raw power, Naruto trunces him.
No, but people are implying how the 4th can't kill Kyuubi when in reality, that was far from the case as he could had killed him easily - if he wanted. We know how the death god jutsu works so it is pretty obvious at some point in the battle, the 4th had Kyuubi's soul in his arm and could had done anything he wanted with it.
Unfortunately, 4th not being able to kill Kyuubi was the logical way of thinking. You are not talking about a typical summon here - one of the strongest demons that seems to not die.
And the death god jutsu 4th used is different from what 3rd used. And you didn't even see anything about the jutsu.
Lastly, I believe there is no mention of "he was able to kill Kyuubi" in the story. It is just a made up assumption on your side.
To me, Orochimaru is still enjoying the fight and not taking it too seriously although we both agree at this time that he is seeing Naruto in a much different light now. I am not so surprised to see Orochimaru throwing jutsu after jutsu as he is in fact a jutsu specialist and in terms of raw power, Naruto trunces him. Not taking seriously? Without that summon (and summons are usually considered as last resort in the story) he could have died already. That attack could have given damage to even a boss-level summon. And Oro is throwing jutsu over jutsu while also consuming chakra (he should have used quite a bit for that summon). Hope he continues this way. At some point he is going to run out of fuel.
Not sure if this is a significant development or not but it is interesting to note that Kyuubi Naruto is now on the same side of the bridge as Sakura, Yamato and Kabuto. Sai, Yamato bunshin and Oro meanwhile are on the oposite side. If Sai's mission has something to do with Oro, now may be the perfect opportunity to carry it out.
Will Kyuubi Naruto continue its fight with Oro or will it try to attack Sakura, Yamato and Kabuto who are probably easier prey? Personally, I find the fight with Oro to be kind of boring and would like to see Kyuubi attacking someone else.
Poor Yamato, he created a bunshin to keep his real self out of danger from Kyuubi. Once again his plan backfired. He must be the unluckiest ninja in the world :heh:
Ero-Senn1n
2006-02-16, 11:53
It may be that Danzou is like Chiyo was pre-timeskip. So the only thing that matters for Danzou is that Kyuubi must be saved, not Naruto. Because Kyuubi is a powerful weapon Sai's mission is to somehow retrieve kyuubi even at the cost of Naruto's death. While Yamato's secondary mission is to save Naruto if he gets into a troublesome situation like this one. In this case even a Yamato vs Sai short battle could happen, or maybe Sakura vs Sai.
The big problem with my theory is that even for akatsuki it took 3 days to transfer a demon, so i really don't think Sai should have a such powerful technique.
But it's quite clear that "root" consider naruto just as a temporal container for their precious demon.
AkatsukisApprentice
2006-02-16, 12:07
Is this some kind of joke?
You really expected Orochimaru to take the full power of one of the most powerful and destructive attack displayed since the beginning of the show at point blanck without dying?
The only ones I can see able to survive a direct impact of such attack are arguably Gozdilla-class summon such as Gamabunta, Manda & co and I doubt even them could handle more than 2~3 attacks without being completely destroyed.
Gamabunta is not that strong, he was pretty weak after 1 hit from Shukaku's chakra ball attack, he even said he cannot stand another attack.
Yes, Oro should be scared of the orb, he said it was high density chakra, so it has to be powerful. I guess Kishimoto really want's this fight to end up with everyone retreating from the scene, which is probably why he is moving towards Yamato coming to the scene to hold back Naruto and Sai doing something which will change the balance or put some sort of confusion into the mix... I bet Sakura becomes like her old self and makes a fool of herself once again.
Well, this arc is looking great, let's hope something good like Sasuke showing up happens :heh:
Naruto will grow (a) new tail(s) in the next chapter. If I'm not mistaken, Kabuto's says something like "He's even more closer to become Kyuubi then in the past" on the last page.
If it's the case, I really wonder what other jutsu's Orochimaru is gonna use against him. I guess something special with Kusanagi... who knows... It's not like anyone else except Orochimaru will be able to get close to Naruto then.
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-16, 13:08
After looking the latests releases i begin to believe that Kabuto will remain Orochimaru's b!tch..
And this battle is kinda stupid...
- Naruto cant really get hurt..with his regeneration and healing besides Naruto doesnt feel that much right now..since the Kyuubi is in control
- Orochimaru doesnt show signs of getting tired or that he is REALLY REALLY hurt somewhere...
So this might be a miniature battle from the legends...and that this battle will last for an additional 4-5 chapters...
Gamabunta is not that strong, he was pretty weak after 1 hit from Shukaku's chakra ball attack, he even said he cannot stand another attack.
You're underestimating Gamabunta here, he wasn't heavily hurted by the Renkuudan and said that even he couldn't take too much of them, not that he wouldn't stand just one other.
I am sure Orochimaru is going to die, but not by a 4 tailed Naruto. My suspects:
- Jiraiya
- 9 tailed Kyuubi (note I didn't say Naruto)
- Kabuto
- new character
Don't forget sasuke.
There is a good chance he may be the one to kill him.
astayanax
2006-02-16, 13:23
I was thinking of a Sasuke Orochimaru fight for a few moments, but changed my mind. I am pretty sure that old snake had used the CS in some form or fashion to make Sasuke loyal to him.
monstert
2006-02-16, 13:25
Maybe Naruto form has the power to kill Orochimaru, but so does Konohamaru with a Kunai. Now that's an overstatement. There's no way Konohamaru can kill Orochimaru with a Kunai at the moment simply because of his regenerative abilities. For you to compare Naruto and Konohamaru like that is just plain silly.
Wow this chapter sucked...... can it get any cornier than it already is? Naruto going beserk right from the start, Oro and his super lame regenerating (even Kabuto and Tsunade's had some kind of limit/drawback), tick-for-tack type attrition fighting...... its just soo cliche. I liked Naruto fights for its weird and uniquie style, this is just so cookie cutter..... After all the funkiness of Sasori vs. Sakura and Chiyo this is just plain dull. I think I might just read Bleach full time now.....
Now that's an overstatement. There's no way Konohamaru can kill Orochimaru with a Kunai at the moment simply because of his regenerative abilities. For you to compare Naruto and Konohamaru like that is just plain silly.
Of course it is and overstatement :p, is just an example that just because you have the tools, doesn’t mean that you can complete the task.
Wow this chapter sucked...... can it get any cornier than it already is? Naruto going beserk right from the start, Oro and his super lame regenerating (even Kabuto and Tsunade's had some kind of limit/drawback), tick-for-tack type attrition fighting...... its just soo cliche. I liked Naruto fights for its weird and uniquie style, this is just so cookie cutter..... After all the funkiness of Sasori vs. Sakura and Chiyo this is just plain dull. I think I might just read Bleach full time now.....
Don't get desperated ;)
It might become very interesting... you never know.
Of course it is and overstatement :p, is just an example that just because you have the tools, doesn’t mean that you can complete the task. Similar to Itachi's MS.
edit: to the comment "just because you have the tools (MS), doesn’t mean that you can complete the task (such as killing a person)."
I was thinking of a Sasuke Orochimaru fight for a few moments, but changed my mind. I am pretty sure that old snake had used the CS in some form or fashion to make Sasuke loyal to him.
I totally agree. I highly doubt orochimaru will get killed by someone he trained. He knows all of Sasukes moves and exactely what he is capable of, while Sasuke most likely does not know oros moves.
Skill wise, in some more years he might stand a chance against Oro, but as it is with oro knowing all his jutsu, no chance.
And I am not sure if it was an anime only thing, but Oro used the CS to take down Anko (not that he would have needed it).
I never said Naruto is weak... On the contrary, I'm one of those encouraging him ;)
I've no idea how you came to the conclusion he's weak with what I said. I only meant that when Kyuubi is gone, the "demonish" chakra is gone as well (unless proven wrong)
Then I suggested he might reach a similar level by very precise control of his chakra output and maybe develop a technique to increase its power: "doing more with less"
Something a little like what Tsunade, Kabuto or Neji. They also have a special way to control their chakra for i.e. surgery or deal damage to the organs / chakra flow.
I got the feeling because in the moment where the chance of Naruto losing kyubi appeared you started theories about him still having regeneration abilities or demonic chakra, instead of coming up with the idea that he might get strong, maybe even stronger, without the Kyubi. Like Kenshin threw away battosai.
Not meant as an offens though, seems like a misunderstanding from me.
Where is sasuke dammit.
Maybe we should be glad he is not here. I am afraid to see a more girl like verion of him with long hair, finger polish,... you get the idea.
Similar to Itachi's MS.
What this has to do with Naruto vs Orochimaru?
What this has to do with Naruto vs Orochimaru?
He just replied to your answer, even when you have MS, doesn't mean you can kill everyone.
Don't get desperated ;)
It might become very interesting... you never know.
Honestly the only reason why I'm still reading this arc is the hopes that I get to see Sai and Yamato do something cool. When it first started I wanted to see Naruto own Oro, and in cool fashion. Well that's not happening, Naruto isn't winning (though it's too early to say he's losing) and he's not cool..... Aslo a medical ninja fight between Kabuto and Sakura would have been nice too....
He just replied to your answer, even when you have MS, doesn't mean you can kill everyone.
Again What Itachi or Kakashi got to do with the current conversation? it is obvius by now when we saw how Kakash didn't kill deidara.
Again What Itachi got to do with the current conversation?
Again, you fail to understand that it has nothing to do with itachi but it has everything to do with this conversation, even when you have the tools be it MS or kiyubi, you are saying it doesn't mean you get the job done, which is quite true.
EDIT: Also, I'm curious how you guys came up with the idea naruto already lost to orochimaru? I see this fight ending to a draw, we won't see clear winner, because this fight will most likely end to 1) Orochimaru running low on chakra cause he was forced to use high level defence jutsus, so they will probably retreat 2) yamato stops naruto
Again, you fail to understand that it has nothing to do with itachi but it has everything to do with this conversation, even when you have the tools be it MS or kiyubi, you are saying it doesn't mean you get the job done, which is quite true.
I will ask for the 3rd time.What does Kakashi or Itachi or the MS if you like….has to do with the conversation? it seems you where replying while I was editing my last post..so I can understand this reply.
dude, 4th didn't kill nine tails, he just SEAL it away....REMEMBER, SEAL IS DIFFERENT THAN KILL, BUT 4TH DIED BECAUSE OF THAT. anyway, naruto is more closer to wild demon than before. and remember, oro said if he took that blast from naruto, he will die. and i dun think naurto is now defeated just because stabbed by a sword, that will be lame. remember, he has chakra armor and according to legen, nine tails is immortal.... which means he can't die
Why did Oro even bother summoning the demon barriers? He should've just tunneled under the ground! and 4 tails naruto couldn't even dodge a sword thrust? Pfft this fight should end already, it's boring watching a fight go on so long when we can be 99% sure that neither participant will die.
Is next chapter the return of Jiraiya? (my New Years resolution to learn kanji ended on the the 1st of Jan)
What I'd like to see happen....
As Kyuubi is in control I want him to drag Naruto's body up along the blade of Oro's extended sword all the way up to Oro's head and chow down.
Anko Plushy
2006-02-16, 14:50
I still strongly believe that Orochimaru is going to get some of his ass kicked and Sasuke is going to show up and look either really hot like Itachi *drools* or absolutely butt ugly
Sai's mission HAS TO DO WITH NARUTO OR KYUBI!
That's final!
There might be a 1% change it has to do with Kabuto but I doubt it...
Maybe it's to control Kyubi and threaten the current administration in Konoha?!
Reasons Sai's not to deal with anything else:
He specifically said mission commencement during the fight when Kyubi was semi-released
No one expected Oro to show up at the meeting
Sai is not after Kabuto, could care less about Sakura and Kabuto
There ya go! 100% proof
jackass jimm
2006-02-16, 15:00
I've only read the first page....but wanted to point something out.
Now Naruto is near friends.
4 tailed Naruto attacks everyone/anyone.
Naruto attacks the Doc, Sakura, and the Jounin.
I think that is what is going to happen and the Jounin (I am forgetting his name at the moment) will have to lock Naruto down right now. Then Oro will leave.
Plus, is it just me or is this fight seeming like the Garaa/Birdguy and Naruto and Co VS itachi and Kisame? Very short fights just to show some action and some forshadowing. We all know these chapters aren't huge climatic events, since before them....there weren't anything.
Some people arent easily satisfied eh?
To be honest, this fight is awesome. And im enjoying every page of it!
GuestWho
2006-02-16, 15:46
This is my first post despite my reading the forum for quite a long time.
In reply to all those talking about Oros regenerating:
People are forgetting that Oro has a new body, so the regenerating abilities may have come from that body (maybe were even born with it) and has shown that it's near effortless to perform. Since it may have originated from the new body it probably uses nearly no chakra and has no negative effects on the user and will lose it once Oro transfers to a new body.
Itachi 216
2006-02-16, 16:05
He already did didnt he? Yeah, he did
This is my first post despite my reading the forum for quite a long time.
In reply to all those talking about Oros regenerating:
People are forgetting that Oro has a new body, so the regenerating abilities may have come from that body (maybe were even born with it) and has shown that it's near effortless to perform. Since it may have originated from the new body it probably uses nearly no chakra and has no negative effects on the user and will lose it once Oro transfers to a new body.
So..You are one of those guys that are Guess user? How long how you been stalking this Forum?:heh:
Either way, You might be right on the Gain ability with the Host body, and after that losing it when moving to another body, but, It would be could as someone mentioned once that he finds (or already found) a way to transfer those special attribute!!
s-class uchiha
2006-02-16, 16:17
This is my first post despite my reading the forum for quite a long time.
In reply to all those talking about Oros regenerating:
People are forgetting that Oro has a new body, so the regenerating abilities may have come from that body (maybe were even born with it) and has shown that it's near effortless to perform. Since it may have originated from the new body it probably uses nearly no chakra and has no negative effects on the user and will lose it once Oro transfers to a new body.
Possible, but it i have my doubts b/c the heavy reliance of snakes during his regeneration.
Also after Oro his Naruto w/ the Kusanagi and he's flying away what is the black string connected to oro? Is it the action line of when Naruto got hit??
Or does the kyuubi naruto have a hold of oro??
Sorry couldnt really tell the difference b/c on the last page (penultimate) Seems like naruto is holding onto something after you see him land near the bridge.
UthertheHat
2006-02-16, 16:48
This whole arc is Touch and Go and people are expecting too much of this fight.
Oro is going to retreat probably after Sauske arrives and says something.
My guess is yamato is going to return naruto to normal with the jutzu and then sakura is going to arrive so they can both have a quick encounter with sauske. And I think this arc is also suppose to show us how much more powerful Naruto is. The whole point of Jiryra's training was to improve his best weapon, the Kyuubi's chakara.
And for the record, the 4th sealed the kyuubi as a last resort to save the village. He did seal it in Naruto for a reason we don't know yet, but if he could have killed it and rid the world from it he would have.
GuestWho
2006-02-16, 17:08
Possible, but it i have my doubts b/c the heavy reliance of snakes during his regeneration.
Also after Oro his Naruto w/ the Kusanagi and he's flying away what is the black string connected to oro? Is it the action line of when Naruto got hit??
.
The snakes make his regenerating look cooler : P But ya we probably won't know for sure for awhile.
Thats the sword coming out of his mouth.
How long how you been stalking this Forum?
Around when haku was introduced >.> *cough*
My guess is yamato is going to return naruto to normal with the jutzu and then sakura is going to arrive so they can both have a quick encounter with sauske. And I think this arc is also suppose to show us how much more powerful Naruto is. The whole point of Jiryra's training was to improve his best weapon, the Kyuubi's chakara.
That was the point, but it failed miserably. Far from being an improved weapon, it's now a deadly threat to Naruto and his teammates that overtakes him at the drop of a hat. Naruto is not this powerful, 4-Tailed Kyuubi is this powerful. Even at 3-Tails, Naruto nearly killed Sakura without even realizing it. This arc has not shown how powerful Naruto is, it's shown how unstable he is. He's a ticking time bomb waiting to blow.
astayanax
2006-02-16, 18:05
He did seal it in Naruto for a reason we don't know yet, but if he could have killed it and rid the world from it he would have.
No proof this is the case. As a matter of fact, the opposite is shown in the series. All hidden villages, including the leaf, wants to use demons for their own purposes. The 4th isn't any different especially as he had seals for this very same purpose (to use demons as a weapon).
Thrillhouse
2006-02-16, 18:23
I might be creating an end to the serie that doesn't have ending made, but 99,9% chance naruto WILL become a hokage in the end of serie, I doubt there will be drama ending to naruto where naruto dies and the serie ends, if this happens, I applaud to kishimoto for having the balls to do it, but ITS HARDLY going to happen.
Naruto will most definately become the strongest shinobi in the serie for sure thanks to the ultimate plotshield, you have to be truly in denial to think naruto wouldn't become way stronger than sasuke, orochimaru or jiraiya in the future. It might take time, but it will happen, like it or not.
Ill oppose you and say 99.9% chance that will not be the ending and Naruto will actually die in a self sacrifice form of fashion, most likely in a 'save my friends' kind sacrifice. So far thats what the message im getting from Naruto is, hes Goku, he would sacrifice himself for the greater good. I will assume Sasuke will actually become Hokage, but Naruto will have his face carved into the mountain side. Thats my ending. Not my ideal ending but thats my prediction.
lotus_lee
2006-02-16, 19:45
I'm becoming quite disappointed with Naruto. What happened to 'that move' that Jiraiya mentioned aeons ago? When we learned that Jiraiya was going to teach Naruto to use more of his ultimate weapon, the Kyuubi, I thought he meant like using it's chakra to perform some higher-class moves like being able to summon Gamabunta properly, some Sannin-level move or using Kyuubi to do some cool regeneration. Instead, we are just seeing tail-related powerups. Might as well rename the series Kyuubi for all that matter.
It's like instead of thinking:
''I have this great pool of chakra so better make the most of it while it's still inside me and learn some uber-moves from Ero-Sennin''
he goes:
''Nah, don't feel like doing anything else, might as well just power up and let Kyuubi handle the rest''.
I thought that the move Jirayia taught Naruto could be fatal?
MacJ_007
2006-02-16, 20:25
I think the 4th Hokage just got lucky in beating the Kyubi and beside kyubi was never killed he was just sealed. Like Orochimaru surprised upon seeing the death god jutsu that the 3rd Hokage did, I think so did the kyubi waited for it and did'nt know what would happen. And I think Orochimaru is stronger than Jiraiya "Edo Tensei" is all he needed, summoning 2 Hokages which is tough to beat.
AnimePlus
2006-02-16, 20:26
I don't think Naruto has enough power for that.
Where is sasuke dammit.
Underground!
I wish :)
Tyrone Biggums
2006-02-16, 22:19
Why do ppl still compain and whine for Sasuke? Fuck man, he'll come whenever Kishi wants him to ur whining isnt gonna bring him here sooner...personally it was a decent chapter, just an exchange of blows from Naruto and Oro what more could u want, and for people who thought this chap sucked, wait till its in anime form and imagine how good it will look god damn seeing Naruto get stabbed is always good times.
Some people arent easily satisfied eh?
To be honest, this fight is awesome. And im enjoying every page of it!
I guess i'm not easily impressed....... Just nothing that special, i mean its a high powered fight just really dull and not very ninja-y at all. Dare I say, more like a DBZ fight than a Naruto fight....
can't be helped, kishi is/was a huge dragonball fan.
UthertheHat
2006-02-16, 22:37
Why do ppl still compain and whine for Sasuke? Fuck man, he'll come whenever Kishi wants him to ur whining isnt gonna bring him here sooner...personally it was a decent chapter, just an exchange of blows from Naruto and Oro what more could u want, and for people who thought this chap sucked, wait till its in anime form and imagine how good it will look god damn seeing Naruto get stabbed is always good times.
Damn Straight, the art for this arc rocks so far and i enjoy it. Not all arcs can be story based, so just need to unload and show off Naruto's POWER.
And this whole arc isnt to show Naruto's control or how he should control his emotions, it's showing his hatred for orochimaru and that is what keeps the tails commin
If Kusanagi will not provide any specific ability such as disabling the demon kind of opponent, then Orochimaru might find himself in a disadvantageous situation, especially if he doesn't let go of the sword (or if he is forced so).
Using the sword as a transportation medium, and chakra-based extensions Naruto can finally reach the real Orochimaru.
No proof this is the case. As a matter of fact, the opposite is shown in the series. All hidden villages, including the leaf, wants to use demons for their own purposes. The 4th isn't any different especially as he had seals for this very same purpose (to use demons as a weapon). Again using the series and your way of thinking, the other villages have usually used the demons/sealings multiple times. Kyuubi and Konoha seems to be a first. Hence, again based on your way of thinking, what the other villages have done cannot be used as a way to define Konoha. Your way of thinking seems to reach a dilemma. What will you do?
And, 4th was waiting for Kyuubi to come back to the world so that he can use a seal to kill himself, causing Konoha to lose significant power when they need a strong leader. Thinking the future he might have caused the destruction of Konoha until the demon-child grow to become stronger for at least the next 20 years. That kind of leaders are really admirable!!!
s-class uchiha
2006-02-16, 23:58
Damn Straight, the art for this arc rocks so far and i enjoy it. Not all arcs can be story based, so just need to unload and show off Naruto's POWER.
And this whole arc isnt to show Naruto's control or how he should control his emotions, it's showing his hatred for orochimaru and that is what keeps the tails commin
Yes,
And I do think someone else pointed out the fact that he may (i said may so itachi fanboys calm dowm) be fighting the Strongest person alive in the Narutoverse. What do you want him to do out think, out jutsu, or just plain old out fight Orochimaru?
Let's say he was fighting Sasuke and he automatically went to 4 tails that would be lame.
Naruto, kabuto, sakura, yamato, and Sai know that Naruto's only chance of beating Oro is the 4 tails and you know what... that might not even cut it.
But i do sympathize and want to see Naruto do something else, see "that jutsu," and Sasuke.
I guess kishi forgot that the readers only see 17 pages per week! But he must be doing something right having the #1 fan - ranked character be someone who is not even in it...
UthertheHat
2006-02-17, 00:16
This is "Naruto" we are talking about. He isnt a genius ninja like sauske and isnt smart like sakura. He is naruto and if beating the hell out of someone with no style or fancy jutzu moves works for him, I say go for it and use your kyuubi power which no one else has to win. Narutos power is one of a kind and no one else has unlimited red chakara withen them so use what u got:D
Is this some kind of joke?
You really expected Orochimaru to take the full power of one of the most powerful and destructive attack displayed since the beginning of the show at point blanck without dying?
The only ones I can see able to survive a direct impact of such attack are arguably Gozdilla-class summon such as Gamabunta, Manda & co and I doubt even them could handle more than 2~3 attacks without being completely destroyed.
Yes honestly i did expect orochimaru to be able to take it, hes by far a joke as teh main villian if he cant even handle that, naruto is at the moment not even half of what he can be, actually if he became the kyuu bi he would porbably be more stronger than just having the tails out ( like how gaara become worlds power after a full transformation.)
I would say after that orochimaru if left for jiraiya to deal with, hes not the main bad-guy i thought might be possible... Akatsuki leader is.
Fukitsu Naruto
2006-02-17, 00:28
[QUOTE
Who ever made that unwritten rule up that a shinobi has to be weak when he does not have a blood line limit or a demon. Think of Sarutobi or Yondaime. Why shouldn't Naruto be able to become a strong Hokage without Kyubi?
Ad Gaara: It was not shown, but we can assume that his demon powers and his massive Sand control are gone now. There is a possibility that his protective snad did remain, as it should have been a result of the jutsu of his mother. Never the less he should be around the level of an average Chunin or Jonin now. Too bad, I really liked him.[/QUOTE]
You're quite right in that assumption. According to Wikipedia (which has all of the info. up to the latest chapters) the only thing that Gaara lost when Shukaku was taken from his body is his "auto-shield" of sand from his gourd. Despite the fact that we have not seen him fight after the extraction this is a safe theory. :)
Yes,
And I do think someone else pointed out the fact that he may (i said may so itachi fanboys calm dowm) be fighting the Strongest person alive in the Narutoverse. What do you want him to do out think, out jutsu, or just plain old out fight Orochimaru?
Let's say he was fighting Sasuke and he automatically went to 4 tails that would be lame.
Naruto, kabuto, sakura, yamato, and Sai know that Naruto's only chance of beating Oro is the 4 tails and you know what... that might not even cut it.
But i do sympathize and want to see Naruto do something else, see "that jutsu," and Sasuke.
I take issue with the fact that Kishimoto made standard Naruto such a chump that the only way for him to even dream of competing with a high level opponent is to morph into mini-Kyuubi. All Kishimoto had to do was have Naruto make tremendous strides in his time with Jiraiya and shock everybody, being somewhat stronger than Gaara at his full power. But instead he's just an idiot who doesn't even try to fight with his own skills anymore. Naruto shouldn't be a match for Oro 1v1 yet, and as such he shouldn't be fighting Oro 1v1 at all; this was supposed to be a team battle, but his three teammates are just standing around twiddling their thumbs and hoping Kyuubi doesn't turn on them. I would rather see Naruto fight with his own skills than watch Kyuubi beat up on people for him, even if that means he needs some backup once in a while.
I guess kishi forgot that the readers only see 17 pages per week! But he must be doing something right having the #1 fan - ranked character be someone who is not even in it...
And he must be doing something wrong for the main character of the series to actually be falling in the ranks after his big timeskip power-up...
I just wish Sakura starts to appreciate Naruto more. Naruto is a much, much more considerate and caring person than Sasuke. He sticks up for his friends no matter what and he treasures his allies more than his own life. Geez, this "I will do anything for the the cool looking guy" crush on Sasuke has got to end. Someone knock some sense into her already. Right there, on the rock is a guy that will do anything for you, Sakura. So stop standing idly and thinking "Sasuke-kun..." and actually try to help Naruto? I'm positive if it was Sasuke getting hit, she would run up to him wildly.
s-class uchiha
2006-02-17, 01:25
Yes honestly i did expect orochimaru to be able to take it, hes by far a joke as teh main villian if he cant even handle that, naruto is at the moment not even half of what he can be, actually if he became the kyuu bi he would porbably be more stronger than just having the tails out ( like how gaara become worlds power after a full transformation.)
I would say after that orochimaru if left for jiraiya to deal with, hes not the main bad-guy i thought might be possible... Akatsuki leader is.
No seriously...
You really expected Oro to take that?? It destroyed 3 of his demon gates!!!!
It's not realistic for any character in the Narutoverse to take that.
I take issue with the fact that Kishimoto made standard Naruto such a chump that the only way for him to even dream of competing with a high level opponent is to morph into mini-Kyuubi. All Kishimoto had to do was have Naruto make tremendous strides in his time with Jiraiya and shock everybody, being somewhat stronger than Gaara at his full power. But instead he's just an idiot who doesn't even try to fight with his own skills anymore. Naruto shouldn't be a match for Oro 1v1 yet, and as such he shouldn't be fighting Oro 1v1 at all; this was supposed to be a team battle, but his three teammates are just standing around twiddling their thumbs and hoping Kyuubi doesn't turn on them. I would rather see Naruto fight with his own skills than watch Kyuubi beat up on people for him, even if that means he needs some backup once in a while.
I wish you could've wrote a letter to Kishimoto before he released the timeskip. Then maybe he would've realized that he had "plot hole" he could've abused to make naruto a crazy man. But i guess he thought fans would enjoy more kyuubi, more rasengan, and more kage bunshins... :mad:
I hope I hope I hope that we won't see a 4-tails Naruto in a long time and that he actually does have some skills and that he's only using the 4T right now since its Oro...
Fat chance though... i kno...
I just wish Sakura starts to appreciate Naruto more. Naruto is a much, much more considerate and caring person than Sasuke. He sticks up for his friends no matter what and he treasures his allies more than his own life. Geez, this "I will do anything for the the cool looking guy" crush on Sasuke has got to end. Someone knock some sense into her already. Right there, on the rock is a guy that will do anything for you, Sakura. So stop standing idly and thinking "Sasuke-kun..." and actually try to help Naruto? I'm positive if it was Sasuke getting hit, she would run up to him wildly.
While i agree with you 100% on this you have to cut Sakura some slack. Running to Naruto now would be pretty dangerous since he's not really himself.
I take issue with the fact that Kishimoto made standard Naruto such a chump that the only way for him to even dream of competing with a high level opponent is to morph into mini-Kyuubi. All Kishimoto had to do was have Naruto make tremendous strides in his time with Jiraiya and shock everybody, being somewhat stronger than Gaara at his full power. But instead he's just an idiot who doesn't even try to fight with his own skills anymore. Naruto shouldn't be a match for Oro 1v1 yet, and as such he shouldn't be fighting Oro 1v1 at all; this was supposed to be a team battle, but his three teammates are just standing around twiddling their thumbs and hoping Kyuubi doesn't turn on them. I would rather see Naruto fight with his own skills than watch Kyuubi beat up on people for him, even if that means he needs some backup once in a while.
And he must be doing something wrong for the main character of the series to actually be falling in the ranks after his big timeskip power-up...
I recall an interview with Kishimoto where he said Sasuke was his favorite for this reason: he was hard to draw since he was trying to balence that "on the cusp of manhood" look. Kishi was very proud of Sasuke as a creation because he had to invest so much work into him. He was creasted to be the foil to Naruto, the prototypical ninja (hell he's named after a famous ninja) compared to the unorthrodox/drop out ninja of Naruto.
When he was talking about the character design for Naruto he said that Naruto was based of himself when he was a kid, a drop out. "The loser that could" was the theme for Naruto, not exactly hard to create here..... So why is it that his main character (which is based off Kishimoto himself) so not popular? Maybe Kishimoto just doesn't like himself very much, or fans just have bad tastse. I'm inclined to think its a bit of both.
Naruto has always sucked, but always managed to pulled out the surprise victory time and time again. He's not doing that anymore, which is why people are sick of him i think. I personally think its time for Kishi to evolve Naruto into a super ninja, and I think many people on these boards expected this as well. However, Kishimoto hasn't evolved his main character at all and its wearing thin.
s-class uchiha
2006-02-17, 02:31
Just to piggyback on you gibits I think that Kishi was doing a great job w/ Naruto (pre-timeskip) and being careful of going into deus ex machina loop like SSJ for the DBZ series.
Naruto did progress in a step wise fashion and after each fight he got a new move and kishi was slowly adding to his arsenal. Although he did use kyuubi before the timeskip, now after seeing just how strong Naruto can get w/ the Kyuubi, we know that Naruto will resort to the kyuubi if he is totally outclassed.
What I'm trying to say is that before he had some moves and tactics that in conjunction w/ using Kyuubi chakara he could've been a genius/talent - esque ninja. Now, it's almost like he's locked into being just a kyuubified freakshow and since we know the extent of his power we'll always know that he'll fall back on it and beat his opponent via force.
And to think he has 5 more tails to go...
How about if Kishimoto-san wants to make a point with Naruto this way ?
We already now that the Hokage and many other people are concerned with how Naruto could turn out.
Maybe he's trying to show the dark side of Naruto... One where he doesn't care anymore of his friends, companions and other people. Just being blinded by the power he has and focusing on killing his opponents, ignoring any kind of colateral damage. Basically, he's showing Naruto as a ticking timebomb that might go berserk (9-tails) and annihilate everything that is (was) important to him without even being conscious of it.
If Jiraiya thought him how to use Kyuubi's power during the time-skip, it might be the time to try to teach Naruto how to control the rest as well.
It would be sad if Kishimoto-san screws up now.
Ero-Senn1n
2006-02-17, 03:34
I think Orochimaru is used as a plot device to show Naruto's current state. It's clear that Orochimaru cannot be defeated by Naruto at this time simply because if the main character could defeat now one of the main villains either
- the end of this manga is very near
- this is going to be like DBZ, 100 chapters from now Orochimaru will seem a pathetic weakling, also all the hokage and sannin and akatsuki
I don't like these possibilities, but if i had to chose i would go for the first choice, end the manga without ruining it.
So the outcome of the battle is clear to me, but it has already shown that Naruto is very determined, to the point he would give up his own life, and also it shows that Naruto can actually make Oro go serious and even make him defensive. Also i believe it will make Naruto understand that if he goes berserk he will not accomplish anything, he can win only with superior tactics and real ninja fight.
Also this 4-tail showdown makes my assumption that the 4th hokage was the strongest more real. We saw now that for the 4th hokage even to survive to the point at which he could use the Death god on kyuubi was an incredible feat. ( But I hope Yellow Flash will not open a thread about this :D )
It makes me wonder kish had this all thought out but although orochimaru is doing okay, kyuubi naruto could of killed him with that attack.... so does that mean kyuu bi naruto is stronger?
and kish is sposed to be adding in.. a akatsuki kunoichi and with all the akatsuki members around do they become some what ... not a big deal?
Yes honestly i did expect orochimaru to be able to take it, hes by far a joke as teh main villian if he cant even handle that, naruto is at the moment not even half of what he can be, actually if he became the kyuu bi he would porbably be more stronger than just having the tails out ( like how gaara become worlds power after a full transformation.)
I would say after that orochimaru if left for jiraiya to deal with, hes not the main bad-guy i thought might be possible... Akatsuki leader is.
Well honestly I think you're crazy here.
Anybody would die with a mere kunai in the brain, the point is not to take the kunai to begin with. Oro's already physically one of the toughest being in the Narutoniverse, anymore would be godlike.
Just to piggyback on you gibits I think that Kishi was doing a great job w/ Naruto (pre-timeskip) and being careful of going into deus ex machina loop like SSJ for the DBZ series.
Naruto did progress in a step wise fashion and after each fight he got a new move and kishi was slowly adding to his arsenal. Although he did use kyuubi before the timeskip, now after seeing just how strong Naruto can get w/ the Kyuubi, we know that Naruto will resort to the kyuubi if he is totally outclassed.
What I'm trying to say is that before he had some moves and tactics that in conjunction w/ using Kyuubi chakara he could've been a genius/talent - esque ninja. Now, it's almost like he's locked into being just a kyuubified freakshow and since we know the extent of his power we'll always know that he'll fall back on it and beat his opponent via force.
And to think he has 5 more tails to go...
I thought Naruto was awesome pre-timeskip, he was hands down my favorite character. I disagree with you in step-wise improvement, he was improving by leaps and bounds. Hell even Sasuke was intimated.
Part two is off to a rocky start mainly because it has mostly been a coming out party for Sakura, and the little we did see of Naruto has been dissappointing. Like you said he's overrelaying on Kyuubi, it was cool when it was once in a blue moon but now of the 3 fights he's been in he's gone Kyuubi twice.
I'm so bored with Naruto that I don't really care who wins (its still up in the air IMO) I want it to end so I can see how the other minor characters turned out.
Damnit Kishi get it together!
Anybody would die with a mere kunai in the brain, the point is not to take the kunai to begin with.
Right but not everybody would die after getting hit by say a rasengan or chidori.
anymore would be godlike.
Like Yondaime ? :D.
But really if orochimaru can die from just one jutsu thing from naruto at this level ... he seems kinda insignificant to a 6 tails or such and such.... unless he gets some kinda power-boost.
But he must be doing something right having the #1 fan - ranked character be someone who is not even in it...
That's one way to look at it, another way would be he must be doing something wrong if he can't make any characters in the manga liked enough to knock sasuke off the no.1 spot.
Right but not everybody would die after getting hit by say a rasengan or chidori.
Yeah and the chakra bullet "Naruto" just spit at Orochimaru is nothing like a Rasengan or a Chidori in term of destructive power.
Like Yondaime ? :D.
No, I have no doubt that Yondaime would avoid getting hit as well but a direct hit would mean death.
But really if orochimaru can die from just one jutsu thing from naruto at this level ... he seems kinda insignificant to a 6 tails or such and such.... unless he gets some kinda power-boost.
And as I said above you confound the weapon and the skill of the user, a kunai is enough to kill anybody if well used.
Given the insane amount of chakra that this jutsu contains a direct hit means death... just as the Amaterasu , the Tsukiyomi, a well aimed Chidori, Rasengan or mere kunai, just as Kakashi's jutsu, just as [insert any destructive jutsu].
The point isn't that a technique can kill someone if it directly connects, the point is to connect.
And as I said above you confound the weapon and the skill of the user, a kunai is enough to kill anybody if well used.
Given the insane amount of chakra that this jutsu contains a direct hit means death... just as the Amaterasu , the Tsukiyomi, a well aimed Chidori, Rasengan or mere kunai, just as Kakashi's jutsu, just as [insert any destructive jutsu].
The point isn't that a technique can kill someone if it directly connects, the point is to connect.
Its still a technique from his strength , which means orochimaru isnt able to deal with it head on, which would mean that kyuubi naruto is stronger than orochimaru which is why hes dissapointing.
Yeah and the chakra bullet "Naruto" just spit at Orochimaru is nothing like a Rasengan or a Chidori in term of destructive power.
No, I have no doubt that Yondaime would avoid getting hit as well but a direct hit would mean death.
And as I said above you confound the weapon and the skill of the user, a kunai is enough to kill anybody if well used.
Given the insane amount of chakra that this jutsu contains a direct hit means death... just as the Amaterasu , the Tsukiyomi, a well aimed Chidori, Rasengan or mere kunai, just as Kakashi's jutsu, just as [insert any destructive jutsu].
The point isn't that a technique can kill someone if it directly connects, the point is to connect.
I may add that your oppsite plays an important role here. Connect is not always enough, Gaara did "connect" his moves perfectly fine to Kimimaro, and they were killing moves, yet there effect was low.
It is important what you opponent does or is capable of.
And the power of the jutsus greatly differs with the power of the user. Rasengan of Yondaime is completely different from Rasengan from Naruto.
But don't get me wrong, I do get your point and agree with you. I just wanted to add my oppinion and what I thought was missing in your post.
Its still a technique from his strength , which means orochimaru isnt able to deal with it head on, which would mean that kyuubi naruto is stronger than orochimaru which is why hes dissapointing.
We have a definition problem here.
"Strengh" in terms of the ability to defeat someone is not defined through the destruction power you or your jutsus posess in the narutoverse.
The thing is Narutos attack could kill Orochimaru, but it did not hit him, it did not even scratch him.
No offense, but maybe you should rewatch the second fight between Kakashi and Zabuza.
Its still a technique from his strength , which means orochimaru isnt able to deal with it head on, which would mean that kyuubi naruto is stronger than orochimaru which is why hes dissapointing.
If Konohamaru pushes a kunai through Jiraiya's eye until it pierces his brain while Jiraiya does absolutely nothing to avoid that. It is still a technique from Konohamaru's strength and Jiraiya isn't able to deal with it head on so that means Konohamaru is stronger than Jiraiya.
Jiraiya is so disapointing.
Your reasoning makes no sense at all.
And the power of the jutsus greatly differs with the power of the user. Rasengan of Yondaime is completely different from Rasengan from Naruto.
But don't get me wrong, I do get your point and agree with you. I just wanted to add my oppinion and what I thought was missing in your post.
Actually I don't really see how the compared power of the 4th's and Naruto's Rasengan is related in this discussion but anyway I'm not even sure Yondaime would make a more powerful Rasengan.
He was obviously way better than Naruto at doing it in term of use and speed but Naruto being such chakra power house I don't see why his Rasengan should be weaker especially now that he displays Kyubi's chakra all the time.
We have a definition problem here.
"Strengh" in terms of the ability to defeat someone is not defined through the destruction power you or your jutsus posess in the narutoverse.
The thing is Narutos attack could kill Orochimaru, but it did not hit him, it did not even scratch him
Right it didnt, but what im saying is orochimaru had to do everything to try avoid it, he couldnt deal with it.
No offense, but maybe you should rewatch the second fight between Kakashi and Zabuza.
What does that have to do with anything?
If Konohamaru pushes a kunai through Jiraiya's eye until it pierces his brain while Jiraiya does absolutely nothing to avoid that. It is still a technique from Konohamaru's strength and Jiraiya isn't able to deal with it head on so that means Konohamaru is stronger than Jiraiya.
Jiraiya is so disapointing.
Dont bad mouth my jiraiya, im saying that jiraiya could keep get and blow him away with rasengan because jiraiya is strong enough to deal with it if need be, orochimaru cant deal with naruto's jutsu head on so he runs from it.
Your reasoning makes no sense at all.
And konohamaru killing jiraiya with a kunai ... does?
Right it didnt, but what im saying is orochimaru had to do everything to try avoid it, he couldnt deal with it.
What does that have to do with anything?
Dont bad mouth my jiraiya, im saying that jiraiya could keep get and blow him away with rasengan because jiraiya is strong enough to deal with it if need be, orochimaru cant deal with naruto's jutsu head on so he runs from it.
And konohamaru killing jiraiya with a kunai ... does?
I don't think Jiraiya could have taken the chakra ball head on either, Orochimaru probably got hit by it because he believed it wouldn't destroy the gates he summoned but it completely destroyed them and sent orochimaru flying, also if you look carefully you can see orochimaru finally getting pissed off in the screens when he pierces naruto with kusanagi. Orochimaru is far from weak and there's no freaking way ANYONE in narutoverse could have taken that chakraball head on doing nothing. If the transformation of naruto wasn't "that jutsu" we will probably see "that" in the next few chapters to come. I doubt the chakra ball was "that jutsu" because as I see it, naruto has no freaking idea what he's even doing, he has no control over his body nor even understands that he's fighting orochimaru, he has lost all control, now the question is, how he can perform "that jutsu" if he has no control over his body? Asking nicely from kiyuubi to do some super jutsu?
In anycase the fight between Orochimaru and naruto won't stop here, I doubt the fight will end before someone comes in the middle of it, be it yamato or sai, my bet goes to Yamato, Sai would probably get killed by Naruto if he tried to stop him.
And konohamaru killing jiraiya with a kunai ... does?
No but it's the same argumentation type... so both, Hunter's and your comments, are not near reality^^
threepac3
2006-02-17, 06:54
Its still a technique from his strength , which means orochimaru isnt able to deal with it head on, which would mean that kyuubi naruto is stronger than orochimaru which is why hes dissapointing.
Wow a comment like that really shows how you don't get the Naruto series.:uhoh: Physical power has never been a ideal aspect of a "strong" character here. The 3rd Hokage wasn't considerd to be the best shinobi in konoha because he could physically withstand any damage done to him... I't was because his jatsu/shinobi mastery was un-rivaled by anyone in his village. Most "Heros"/"Villians" in this series are feared/admired for the exact same reason.
The fact that Oro could deflect/absorb and counter an attack that would have curtainly killed him, shows his level of mastery. Not only that Oro has been able to fight naruto move for move (without perminate damage), while Jiriya could not.
Wow a comment like that really shows how you don't get the Naruto series.:uhoh: Physical power has never been a ideal aspect of a "strong" character here. The 3rd Hokage wasn't considerd to be the best shinobi in konoha because he could physically withstand any damage done to him... I't was because his jatsu/shinobi mastery was un-rivaled by anyone in his village. Most "Heros"/"Villians" in this series are feared/admired for the exact same reason.
The fact that Oro could deflect/absorb and counter an attack that would have curtainly killed him, shows his level of mastery. Not only that Oro has been able to fight naruto move for move (without perminate damage), while Jiriya could not.
Well we don't know how long Jiraiya fought 4tails but with the rest of your post I totally agree.
Could it be possible that "that jutsu" is something Naruto could be doing in his mind ? Performing some kind of jutsu that could unleach Kyuubi completely ? A little like what Gaara did for Shikaku to take over completely.
Kyuubi is supposed to be wise, so I think this might be a possibility. It would be an offence to kitsune to make kyuubi dumb ^^' Currently Naruto/Kyuubi is very impulsive.
As for possible people to come in between the fight, nor Kabuto or Sakura are able to do so. Sai could be trying to do something for his mission, but for him it's best when Naruto get out of his kyuubi frenzy. He'll be very weak by then and that's perfect time for Sai to carry out his mission, whatever it might be.
The only one left would be Yamato and his Mokuton Bunshin (Mokuton/Mokuzai [=wood], what's the right term ^^' ? ) Since they're two, he might be performing some kind of seal, like what the sound four did with the Sasuke barrel.
Possibly that Sasuke comes in to stop Yamato, but that's unlikely... there're enough people for this fight yet.
Another more tragic theory would be Sakura coming in between Kyuubi and Orochimaru, hoping Naruto gets back to normal after seeing her, but she would most likely get killed by one of them and if she succeeds, Naruto is as good as dead as well.
This might be a good point to insert a flashback about Naruto's training with Jiraiya; Kishimoto did it a few times during important battles : Naruto vs. Gaara, Gaara vs. Kimimaru, Naruto vs. Sasuke ...
Could it be possible that "that jutsu" is something Naruto could be doing in his mind ? Performing some kind of jutsu that could unleach Kyuubi completely ? A little like what Gaara did for Shikaku to take over completely.
Kyuubi is supposed to be wise, so I think this might be a possibility. It would be an offence to kitsune to make kyuubi dumb ^^' Currently Naruto/Kyuubi is very impulsive.
As for possible people to come in between the fight, nor Kabuto or Sakura are able to do so. Sai could be trying to do something for his mission, but for him it's best when Naruto get out of his kyuubi frenzy. He'll be very weak by then and that's perfect time for Sai to carry out his mission, whatever it might be.
The only one left would be Yamato and his Mokuton Bunshin (Mokuton/Mokuzai [=wood], what's the right term ^^' ? ) Since they're two, he might be performing some kind of seal, like what the sound four did with the Sasuke barrel.
Possibly that Sasuke comes in to stop Yamato, but that's unlikely... there're enough people for this fight yet.
Another more tragic theory would be Sakura coming in between Kyuubi and Orochimaru, hoping Naruto gets back to normal after seeing her, but she would most likely get killed by one of them and if she succeeds, Naruto is as good as dead as well.
This might be a good point to insert a flashback about Naruto's training with Jiraiya; Kishimoto did it a few times during important battles : Naruto vs. Gaara, Gaara vs. Kimimaru, Naruto vs. Sasuke ...
The jutsu might be like you said that naruto does it in his mind, but I don't think naruto has grasped the chakra of kiuybi well enough to unleash the complete hell of kiyubi, I'd say 4 tails is the max for naruto at the moment, any more and he should be dead, his body isn't big enough yet to use more chakra of kiyubi as he's already doing. I don't see sakura dying, either. I have always liked the comparison about Jiraiya = naruto, Sakura = Tsunade, Sasuke = Orochimaru, so they will probably be the next "legendary sannins". Ofcourse Sakura could die, but I don't see that happening. And yes I agree, I'd want to see flashbacks of narutos training with jiraya aswell, it usually happens when they will finally show the true results of theyr training, it would be perfect opportunity to show the flashbacks and naruto uses "that jutsu". I enjoy the naruto kiyubi more than the moron naruto so I can't understand these people who are whining, but everyone has theyr own opinions.
Dont bad mouth my jiraiya, im saying that jiraiya could keep get and blow him away with rasengan because jiraiya is strong enough to deal with it if need be, orochimaru cant deal with naruto's jutsu head on so he runs from it.
Even by the ridiculous assumption that Jiraiya could blow away this attack with a mere Rasengan that would still mean that he couldn't take the attack head on and would have to negate the attack with another jutsu... just like Oro did.
And konohamaru killing jiraiya with a kunai ... does?
Of course it doen't as I'm using the same kind of "reasoning" than you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again....
4 tailed Naruto has more raw power than anyone we've seen in the manga so far. Potentially, he can kill anyone in that form. But, Naruto doesn't have the skill of an Oro or a Jiraiya and that offsets his raw power.
So why would it be disappointing for a 4 tailed Naruto to have the capacity to kill Oro when a 4 tailed Naruto could kill just about any character in the manga in a fight?
Personally, I don't see any of the characters in the manga stopping a 4 tailed Naruto with force. They'll have to wait him out and hope that Naruto collapses from all the damage Kyuubi's chakra is doing to him.
Of course it doen't as I'm using the same kind of "reasoning" than you. If they were to have similar probability of effectiveness you might be right. Jiraiya would not summon Gamabunta just to avoid Konohamaru's kunai.
Kyuubified Naruto's attack falls somewhere in between Konohamaru's kunai and Itachi's MS. I believe getting closer to Itachi's MS should refer to a sufficiently high strength level. Also, I believe there is a close relationship between the power of your jutsu and your strength.
If they were to have similar probability of effectiveness you might be right. Jiraiya would not summon Gamabunta just to avoid Konohamaru's kunai.
I think you're missing the point because Orochimaru waiting to be hit by the Kyubi's chakra bullet like a sitting duck and Jiraiya waiting to be stabbed though his brain with a kunai have exactly the same probability of effectiveness : 100% certain death.
The point being of course that none of them will patiently wait for that to happen.
I think you're missing the point because Orochimaru waiting to be hit by the Kyubi's chakra bullet like a sitting duck and Jiraiya waiting to be stabbed though his brain with a kunai have exactly the same probability of effectiveness : 100% certain death.
The point being of course that none of them will patiently wait for that to happen. I got the point, but still, saying no relationship exists between the technique being used (by saying any technique can kill) and the user's strength does not seem to me right. (maybe I read it wrong)
As you mentioned, no one is going to wait as a sitting duck, but the effort the non-sitting ducks put to survive an attack and the possibility of the attack overcoming the effectiveness of the defense should suggest the strength of the ninja. I don't know if there is an exception in the Narutoverse, but that is what I currently belive.
No, what you say is indeed true and the attack Naruto just did is tremendously more powerful than a kunai, I doubt more than a handfull ninja in the world can avoid being killed by it.
I wasn't comparing the potential of a kunai compared to this jutsu, the point was uchiha rave saying that given that Orochimaru couldn't t just let the attack strike him without being affected by it(!) he was disapointing.
Which is just plain stupid because in this case even a kunai could do the job.
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-17, 11:50
Remember Kiba's awesome duo transformation...that couldnt even break through 1 gate...and was enormously powerfull..Oro summoned 3 of them..
That ball just broke through Orochimaru's absolute defense...that thing is more powerfull then Rasengan/Chidori (any other jutsu shown so far) and could be as powerfull as Ameterasu. Since i doubt Jiraiya's defense could hold such a ball..
Anyway i had no idea that Kusanagi could stretch like Ichimaru Gin's Shinsou...alot seemed copied from eachother (other anime) these days. Kishi might be out of new idea's.. :D the sword has a name as if it is a soul slayer itself :p
Anyway..ending the fight this chapter this way makes me think that someone else will appear... or atleast will interupt the fight..(Jiraiya?)
Also if Orochimaru summons huge snakes or Manda then i could be fun :D..
These people are simply humans sure they are ninjas but apart from that there is nothing more to it so a kunai would be more than enough to kill any of them, In Naruto they block or dodge every single attack because if they are hit they suffer like any of us would, we never saw anyone in Naruto take a Kunai head on without doing nothing, apart from Naruto there isn't any other ninja capable of healing himself(that we saw so far at least), in other words basically they are not Super Saiyans that can stay put and take a energy ball capable of destroying the planet without blocking it and still live to tell the tale. So Let's face it, if Oro took that attack head on he would be ashes by now as he should be. Besides I think being able to block such an attack shows Oro is indeed one of the strongest Ninjas ever.
As for the chapter itself i think it was kinda slow paced, Naruto took almost the entire chapter to just fire the damn thing, but MY GOD was that powerful, 3 Rashoumon the size of Gamabunta were blown to pieces to defend it, and also finally Oro was able to move Naruto from where he was with a nice Stab from Kusanagi. But like many have said before i think this fight is being to long, its best for either situations to happen soon, or Oro is going to get seriously wounded in the next chapters and retreat leaving Yamato and Sakura to try and stop Kyuubi-Naruto or Sakura calls out to Naruto and manages to awaken him from his anger like she did with Sasuke when he had the CS active.
I honestly don't think nor do i want to see Kyuubi-Naruto losing against Oro, if he did lose now like this then this manga would turn completly crappy because any chance of Naruto being able to defeat Oro or any other S ranked nin by himself without going Kyuubi will be just a dream. I've said it in another thread but i'll say it again, Naruto in this form is pretty much the most powerful Human that ever lived(Given no other Kyuubi Jinchuriki existed), he has more chakra than all 3 Sannins together, he can heal himself almost instantly not to mention every attack he throws is enough to destroy small armies. Basically what i'm saying is that if a 4 Tailed Naruto can't win against Oro then a normal Naruto would never do so no matter what he uses, and if that's the case then this show is going to be only about Naruto becoming Kyuubified to fight S class people in which event the story would lose most of its interest since the main driving point to this story is how a loser can become a elite through hard work, and not how a loser can become a elite through the use of a ALL POWERFUL DEMON, heck even i would become the strongest like that.
So given all those situations either 4 tails Naruto beats the sh** out of Oro or it's best if Kishimoto after returning Sasuke back to the leaf or kills him, creates another time skip for the characters to become even stronger.
astayanax
2006-02-17, 12:52
I honestly don't think nor do i want to see Kyuubi-Naruto losing against Oro, if he did lose now like this then this manga would turn completly crappy because any chance of Naruto being able to defeat Oro or any other S ranked nin by himself without going Kyuubi will be just a dream.
Actually it is the other way around. If Naruto beats Oro than the manga becomes crappy. You have to bear these things in mind:
- Naruto is a very inexperienced Ninja. Furthermore, he isn't a genius like Itachi, Orochimaru etc.
- Naruto right now is using 4 tails, which isn't even 40% of Kyuubi's powers. If he can beat Orochimaru now, you basically can say he can beat anyone in the series which is stupid as we all know sooner or later we will see a 5 tailed Naruto, then a 6 tailed one etc. Naruto undefeatable at this point will completely turn the story around as everything will now resolve about keeping Naruto out of Kyuubi form.
- There are many people who had defeated demons before, which includes the 4th. Even after receiving attacks from Kyuubified Naruto in pre 4 tails form, guys like Kabuto and Deidara shrugged it off with laughs yet are quite cautious about abilities like the MS and the Sannin.
- Sasuke still should be around Naruto's power now at least; with the way his absence is currently being played.
- We still haven't seen Orochimaru at his full power yet. As for Rashoumon, I can't remember but didn't Sakon called it his ultimate defense that he learnt from Orochimaru? If so, this doesn't imply it is Orochimaru's ultimate defense, especially as he summoned 3 of them.
Also if Orochimaru summons huge snakes or Manda then i could be fun :D.. He cannot take the risk of losing Manda.
By the way what kind of summon is that gate? Oro could be able to summon three of those (and without using a scroll). Does he have a gate-farm or something of that sort?
Actually it is the other way around. If Naruto beats Oro than the manga becomes crappy. You have to bear these things in mind:
- Naruto is a very inexperienced Ninja. Furthermore, he isn't a genius like Itachi, Orochimaru etc.
- Naruto right now is using 4 tails, which isn't even 40% of Kyuubi's powers. If he can beat Orochimaru now, you basically can say he can beat anyone in the series which is stupid as we all know sooner or later we will see a 5 tailed Naruto, then a 6 tailed one etc. Naruto undefeatable at this point will completely turn the story around as everything will now resolve about keeping Naruto out of Kyuubi form.
- There are many people who had defeated demons before, which includes the 4th. Even after receiving attacks from Kyuubified Naruto in pre 4 tails form, guys like Kabuto and Deidara shrugged it off with laughs yet are quite cautious about abilities like the MS and the Sannin.
- Sasuke still should be around Naruto's power now at least; with the way his absence is currently being played.
- We still haven't seen Orochimaru at his full power yet. As for Rashoumon, I can't remember but didn't Sakon called it his ultimate defense that he learnt from Orochimaru? If so, this doesn't imply it is Orochimaru's ultimate defense, especially as he summoned 3 of them.
40% of infinite power is still infinite....:eyespin:
Now I didn't say that Naruto couldn't be defeated, but I don't see Oro or anyone being capable of stopping Naruto by force. They'll have to find a way to defeat him without attempting to overpower him.... in other words, use their skills and brains.
He cannot take the risk of losing Manda.
By the way what kind of summon is that gate? Oro could be able to summon three of those (and without using a scroll). Does he have a gate-farm or something of that sort?
Well, Salkon Ultimate Defense was said to belong to Orochimaru And was not made with a Scroll, It seems this gate are not your normal tools we have seen Ten Ten Summoning via scroll, it would be interesting to have a little background regarding this Defenses.
Ero-Senn1n
2006-02-17, 14:29
40% of infinite power is still infinite....:eyespin:
Maybe he does not see that the growth of power with the increasing number of tails is not linear.
A 4 tailed version is much more powerful than a 3-tailed one. It's not like 30% and 40%, more like 4-tails power is for example 5 times as strong as the 3-tails power.
Just think about the the 1-tail -> 3-tail difference, it's so big that with 3-tail he could kick Kabuto's ass in a split-second. Kabuto was like a little bug to him then, while when he had 1-tail i think he was about same power as Kabuto ( which would probably mean that Kabuto wins against him by applying some tricks and smart tactics ).
If we just say that every tail doubles the power than:
1-tails = 2 * Naruto
3-tails = 8 * Naruto
4-tails = 16 * Naruto
9-tails = 512 * Naruto = 32 * 4-tailed Naruto
Now think of a being that can create a black ball of destruction that is 32 times stronger than this was. It would "destroy mountains and cause tidal waves". And the 3-tails -> 4-tails transition seems more than 2 times the power...
astayanax
2006-02-17, 14:47
Well, Salkon Ultimate Defense was said to belong to Orochimaru And was not made with a Scroll, It seems this gate are not your normal tools we have seen Ten Ten Summoning via scroll, it would be interesting to have a little background regarding this Defenses.
Yeah, that was what I remember seeing. Sakon explicitly said that it was 'his' ultimate defense that was taught to him by the snake; not Orochimaru's ultimate defense. This goes even further since Sakon can only summon 1 small version of this whereas Orochimaru doesn't seem to have a limit to the number or size of his versions. I am 90% sure Orochimaru ultimate defense jutsu is something different all together.
He cannot take the risk of losing Manda.
Agreed. As a matter of fact, I doubt Manda would want to mess around with that Naruto seeing how it won't benefit him in anyway.
40% of infinite power is still infinite....
Actually, we don't know if Naruto has access to infinite power/chakra yet. We have seen clear defined limits to all of his tails pre 4 now and I suspect we may see a case here. On the other hand, we are seeing Orochimaru having a good time with his fight against Naruto.
I don't think it's a matter of access to the infinite chakra, but more like being able to access a certain amount at one time.
For instance, you can have a tube no bigger than a soda bottle being the point where a body of water the volume of a lake is pouring out through it. The tube will never be able to pour out the entire lake at one time, but the amount of water it has access to is still the same volume.
Naruto is that tube. Regardless of how much power he has access to, he'll never be able to use it all at one time. The tails just allow him to access more chakra at one time.
Orochimaru just doesn't dare to summon Manda because he'll be a snake snack.
He has no food for him yet. Remember what he said when fighting Jiraiya and Tsunada ;)
Orochimaru just doesn't dare to summon Manda because he'll be a snake snack.
He has no food for him yet. Remember what he said when fighting Jiraiya and Tsunada ;)
Heh, I’m pretty sure just for plot sake, Manda and Orochimaru have come into terms….For Orochimaru it should not be that hard to trap 1000 people and give then to MANDA….
Well, Salkon Ultimate Defense was said to belong to Orochimaru And was not made with a Scroll, It seems this gate are not your normal tools we have seen Ten Ten Summoning via scroll, it would be interesting to have a little background regarding this Defenses. The main reason for thinking about a scroll, is I believe, when you summon multiple things of similar kind you use a scroll (for one you usually do not use a scroll as in Manda - Gamabunta summoning). Also he didn't summon multiple similar things, I need to check, but it seems to me, he summoned multiple same things. When you think of it as a regular summon, it is like summoning 3 mandas.
I believe they are neither a weaponary kind of summon, nor Manda kind of summon. But, still being able to summon 3 of those might seem as a mistaken way to express that Kyuubified Naruto's attack is way strong, and Orochimaru can still be able to defend that. Kishi couldn't make a sacrifice in any of those - he needed to make 4-tailed Naruto very strong but he didn't want Orochimaru to get beaten yet. Well, this is not the first time, so we have to tolerate.
The main reason for thinking about a scroll, is I believe, when you summon multiple things of similar kind you use a scroll (for one you usually do not use a scroll as in Manda - Gamabunta summoning). Also he didn't summon multiple similar things, I need to check, but it seems to me, he summoned multiple same things. When you think of it as a regular summon, it is like summoning 3 mandas. .
I don’t think there is a rule that say so, I think When Kakashi Summomed his pack of dogs to find Sasuke and Naruto, he did not used the scroll, and when Oro summoned 2 Snakes vs the Sannin he did not used any Scroll.
I don’t think there is a rule that said so, I think When Kakashi Summomed his pack of dogs to find Sasuke and Naruto, he did not used the scroll, and when Oro summoned 2 Snakes vs the Sannin he did not used Scroll.
But he did use a scroll to summon them on the bridge, when fighting Zabusa in the mist.
For summoning Pakkun (find Sasuke) he didn't use a scroll.
Besides, he should bring good wether, thanks to the heno heno mohe on his back ;)
(Should be the face on Pakkun's back if your OS supports Japanese)
へ へ
の の
も
へ
yamato_D
2006-02-17, 15:51
ok, who here wants to see kakashi summon a huge hound beast or wolf? i think it'd be awesome...
But he did use a scroll to summon them on the bridge, when fighting Zabusa in the mist.
For summoning Pakkun (find Sasuke) he didn't use a scroll.
Which means he can either summon them with or without Scroll.
Now, given that it was the first time a summon was actually shown in the series, could be that Kishi was still playing with that Idea, (Or, maybe the Scroll played a crucial part on to how the dogs appeared underground) Is the same with the first time Jiraya Appeared, He summoned a Frog Without Using Hand seals nor Using blood.
And no my current PC configuration does not suports Japanese :mad:
Itachi 216
2006-02-17, 16:04
I think it's like the Chidori. At first it was Raikiri because it sounded cooler. It's the same case with the summon in my opinion
Well is sort of different because we are talking about how a specific Jutus is performed, Changing the Name of a Jutsu is something not that contradictory, Either way,Chidory is an A-Rank Jutsu(used by Sasuke), Raikiri is S-Rank (used By Kakshi), Kakashi started as Chidory (I think), it was nick name like that because the sound it made, but it took the nickname Raikiri because Kakshi once cut trough lighting with it.
s-class uchiha
2006-02-17, 16:36
Well is sort of different because we are talking about how a specific Jutus is performed, Changing the Name of a Jutsu is something not that contradictory, Either way,Chidory is an A-Rank Jutsu(used by Sasuke), Raikiri is S-Rank (used By Kakshi), Kakashi started as Chidory (I think), it was nick name like that because the sound it made, but it took the nickname Raikiri because Kakshi once cut trough lighting with it.
can you tell me where you found this difference? databook?
I certainly got the impression that they were the exact same thing just w/a different name.
Gai said that the real name is chidori for the sound it makes, but that it can also be called Raikiri.
i see no difference in the jutsus, but the use of them by the user perhaps ( chidori = raikri... kakashi>sasuke in using it (preskip anyway...)
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-17, 16:41
That is a mistake in the databook...it was indeed clearly said that Raikiri = Chidori and in reverse..
Rasengan (the Spiral Ball) A - Ranked
Superduper Naruto Ball (same old rasengan just another nickname) doesnt make it suddenly S- Ranked..
Oodama Rasengan is S- Ranked though...but that is different from an normal Rasengan...Oodama Rasengan also seems much more destructive..on it's impact a crater appeared...unlike a normal rasengan.
This is gonna sound stupid, but what is that databook ? And is it for sale somewhere ^^ ?
can you tell me where you found this difference? databook?
I certainly got the impression that they were the exact same thing just w/a different name.
Gai said that the real name is chidori for the sound it makes, but that it can also be called Raikiri.
i see no difference in the jutsus, but the use of them by the user perhaps ( chidori = raikri... kakashi>sasuke in using it (preskip anyway...)
It was in the Databook where it was said that Raikiri difference from chidory in ranks..
We could say is the same Difference there is form Rasengan and Odoma Rasengan, both are the same, but obviously one is more powerful than the other.
And Gai didn’t say it can also be called Raikiri, he said that what Kakshi did was cut trough lighting with it and because of this his move was called Raikiri, Chidory it seems not to reach this type of power.
Mr Jhonny, Are you sure that where the Databook stated the ranks of this Jutsu had an error? I found strange that this error is appearing now.
And no my current PC configuration does not suports Japanese :mad:
This is what it looks like :D
http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/4978/henohenomohe3nv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
This is gonna sound stupid, but what is that databook ? And is it for sale somewhere ^^ ?
It is a side Book that contains all of the information on each character, Jutsu, and anything else shown in Naruto. This is made by Kishimoto himself, so it is official.
You can find it for sale. Any search engine is a Good way to find places where it can be bought.
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-17, 18:00
It was in the Databook where it was said that Raikiri difference from chidory in ranks..
We could say is the same Difference there is form Rasengan and Odoma Rasengan, both are the same, but obviously one is more powerful than the other.
And Gai didn’t say it can also be called Raikiri, he said that what Kakshi did was cut trough lighting with it and because of this his move was called Raikiri, Chidory it seems not to reach this type of power.
Mr Jhonny, Are you sure that where the Databook stated the ranks of this Jutsu had an error? I found strange that this error is appearing now.
Not 100% positive but if Kishimoto is putting in the story (through Gai's words [Chuunin Exam]) that both chidori and raikiri are the same except the name then it would be obvious that the lvl / strenght / power (how you wanna call it) is not different. So i suppose it's a mistake from the databook...since that is the most logical explanation.
Oodama Rasengan is different in appearance and power so according to the databook (s-ranked) is that probably indeed s-ranked and stronger/more difficult then a normal rasengan.
Anyway...i noticed this:
- The moment when Jiraiya started learned Naruto techniques he learned Naruto techniques that can't be copied.
Summoning Technique - requires a contract
(Oodama) Rasengan - requires excellent control + you'll need to understand how it works..and that's not it alone..
Kyuubi related techniques - only accessable by the Kyuubi or Jinchuuriki Naruto
Also Jiraiya himself so far used techniques that cant be copied honestly i think that is weird...he made himself Sharingan proof..
astayanax
2006-02-17, 20:24
Also Jiraiya himself so far used techniques that cant be copied honestly i think that is weird...he made himself Sharingan proof..
That can't be further than the truth. The least concerns Jiraiya would have from a master sharingan user is them copying his jutsus.
The sharingan can predict all of his movements and attacks; not to mention see through virtually all genjutsus and tricks. Without having some insane raw speed (look at how Sasuke easily stopped Kyuubified Naruto as soon as he obtain the 3 dots), Jiraiya would have a hard time unless he is obviously WAY better than the opponent.
UthertheHat
2006-02-17, 21:04
Why is everyone so aggitated with the Naruto/Oro fight. This is the first time ever seeing a 3 or a 4 tail Naruto EVER and people are like "seen one tail you seen em all" This isnt a bad fight and it is showing that maybe Naruto won't get pwned by Sauske when they first meet. I bet if we saw a CS 3 Sauske nobody would complain. I just isnt right for Naruto to come back after 3 years of training and be "just as cool as sauske."
This arc isnt showing Narutos lack of control over his kyuubi, its showing how the seal is weakening as Narutos power is growing. And the weaker the seal the move kyuubified Naruto will be shown.
s-class uchiha
2006-02-17, 22:33
Why is everyone so aggitated with the Naruto/Oro fight. This is the first time ever seeing a 3 or a 4 tail Naruto EVER and people are like "seen one tail you seen em all" This isnt a bad fight and it is showing that maybe Naruto won't get pwned by Sauske when they first meet. I bet if we saw a CS 3 Sauske nobody would complain. I just isnt right for Naruto to come back after 3 years of training and be "just as cool as sauske."
This arc isnt showing Narutos lack of control over his kyuubi, its showing how the seal is weakening as Narutos power is growing. And the weaker the seal the move kyuubified Naruto will be shown.
Dude I would complain if Sasuke came back w/ a CS 3 [and btwn the 2 of us so would everyone else on this forum...]
In regards to sasuke I hope he has his own sound 5 - which is an arc i forsee in the future (maybe he'll recruit sakura).
I think the 4tails is pretty cool, but alot of us were hoping for a Naruto that was really crazy w/o having to resort to being a "mindless" kyuubi. Imagine if he was fighting on par w/ Oro using jutsus (and granted a mix of kyuubi sauce on top)! that would've been sweet. Since I knew kishi couldnt get away w/ the kyuubi power up I was really hoping that he during the 2.5 years w/ Jirayiya be able to use a variety of jutsus. The kyuubi eating him up could've still happened but not in the mindless way it has been but perhaps parallel to the CS in the fact that it eats away from their soul but they don't disappear.
Sasuke, though he "cheats" by gathering jutsus easier w/ the sharingan, is less likely to be hated on (unless he comes back and just relies solely on CS). I love seeing jutsus, speed, taijutsus (genjutsu is eh w/ me :heh: ) and just flashy cockiness w/ sufficient back up in general.
Why is everyone so aggitated with the Naruto/Oro fight. This is the first time ever seeing a 3 or a 4 tail Naruto EVER and people are like "seen one tail you seen em all" This isnt a bad fight and it is showing that maybe Naruto won't get pwned by Sauske when they first meet. I bet if we saw a CS 3 Sauske nobody would complain. I just isnt right for Naruto to come back after 3 years of training and be "just as cool as sauske."
I think you meant to say the Kyuubi/Oro fight. That's why people are agitated; we want to see the main character do something impressive and we're tired of this monster brawl. It was new in the Naruto vs. Sasuke fight. Now it's just an extension of the same old thing, and it's the third time he's done it. As if Naruto charging like an idiot and getting away with it thanks to Kyuubi wasn't enough, now he isn't even in control anymore. You better believe I would complain if I saw a CS3 Sasuke, CS2 was an absurd plot device and the existence of a CS3 would just prove that Kishimoto is no longer interested in anything but straightforward powerup contests.
This arc isnt showing Narutos lack of control over his kyuubi, its showing how the seal is weakening as Narutos power is growing. And the weaker the seal the move kyuubified Naruto will be shown.
Right, and the less control Naruto will have over Kyuubi.
flawesome
2006-02-18, 02:49
The outcome of this battler, most likely, belongs to Orochimaru, as stated by many.
But does anyone enjoying seeing Orochimaru 3 gates got blown away? That was cool!
Heck, if the 4-tailed Naruto (somehow) put a scare on Jiraiya's chest, it would be a shame to the beloved Jiraiya if Naruto couldn't scratch Orochimaru. If Orochimaru gets a few broken bones, that would be enough for me. :)
The outcome of this battler, most likely, belongs to Orochimaru, as stated by many.
But does anyone enjoying seeing Orochimaru 3 gates got blown away? That was cool!
Heck, if the 4-tailed Naruto (somehow) put a scare on Jiraiya's chest, it would be a shame to the beloved Jiraiya if Naruto couldn't scratch Orochimaru. If Orochimaru gets a few broken bones, that would be enough for me. :)
i think Kyuubi (naruto ) has proven to be a serious threat :D
destroying 3 Rashoumon is not something everybody can do.
When Kishi keeps writing in powerful fights like this it makes all ninja's who aren't as powerful less meaningful and less able to contribute to the story.
When more and more characters are so clearly much stronger than all others he makes it harder and harder for himself to make 'lesser' fights have any impact on the story at all.
So anyone who fights now will likely have a power up themselves, otherwise whats the point? If they aren't as powerful as the sannin, akatsuki, Naruto, Sasuke, Oro then they don't pose much of a threat to these main characters and all we're going to get in future is more thoughtless, ridiculous, boring power ups and less tactics, intelligence and strategy, basically the three things that I enjoy most in manga fights.
I'm not on one big downer on power ups because when they happen occasionally they can be very effective, I'm just saying the more Kishi does it the less relevance all the 'normal' fights will have.
Yeah they need more people for weaker people to fight .. yet make it seem important ? cos right now anyone who fights the akatsuki has to be like naruto/sakura/kakashi/gai etc.... maybe the others can help but they lost alot of meaning i guess they had there chance in the chuunin arc and what not.
Not 100% positive but if Kishimoto is putting in the story (through Gai's words [Chuunin Exam]) that both chidori and raikiri are the same except the name then it would be obvious that the lvl / strenght / power (how you wanna call it) is not different. So i suppose it's a mistake from the databook...since that is the most logical explanation.
And then You are wrong, If Databook states that are different in Level, then they are , Just because you feal like it not the same, doesn't mean the Databook is wrong, furthermore, It is quite obvius that the Chidori Sasuke does is way bellow, The one Kakashi does, so Yeah, Kakahis Raikiri is more powerfull.
Let me add, that as You mention that Odoma Rasengan is different from Rasengan in Size, So is Raikiri from Chidory. The Raikiri made by Kakashi Dispersed more electricity in the air than the Chidory Sasuke has made while not been influenced by CS.
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-18, 09:43
But the difference has been said by Gai...Chidori = Raikiri and Raikiri is Chidori...please tell me then why wouldnt it be a mistake from the databook?
Why would Raikiri be an higher class if it is the same technique?
Also yeah Kakashi's Chidori is stronger...he invented and created it ...so its natural that he understands his own jutsu better..therefor being able to make it stronger..
But if you can tell me that and convince me that Raikiri is better then Chidori even though it is the same then i'd admit that you are really good..
But the difference has been said by Gai...Chidori = Raikiri and Raikiri is Chidori...please tell me then why wouldnt it be a mistake from the databook?
Why would Raikiri be an higher class if it is the same technique?
Also yeah Kakashi's Chidori is stronger...he invented and created it ...so its natural that he understands his own jutsu better..therefor being able to make it stronger..
But if you can tell me that and convince me that Raikiri is better then Chidori even though it is the same then i'd admit that you are really good..
Please undestand that one is a higher rank than the other because of the power one has compared to other (Maybe the level of Chakra requiered an thus the level of damage),
I already gave you one example, by your logic, Odoma rasengan Should not be considered then, a different level just because it is more powerful, when the Jutsu itself is the same as normal rasengan.
IS the same also as Tajou Kage Bushin and normal Kage Bunshin, the first one is A-Rank while the other is B-rank, they are the same, but of course one is more powerful than the other.
And last of all, Normally when something is said in the Manga, something not as trivial as Chiidory's and Raikiri's name, it does not go into much details, Databook is an expanded knowlledge of the little things not said in the Manga.
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-18, 11:01
Oodama looks very different from a normal Rasengan in appearance..unlike Chidori & Raikiri..
Oodama looks very different from a normal Rasengan in appearance..unlike Chidori & Raikiri..
Yeah..One has more Chakra into it, and maybe even more spining..after that, the essence of the Jutsu (the 3 step) is the same.
If Naruto could have learned to increase the density of the rasengan (as Kyuubified version of him did with the black chakra ball), then it would have become much more powerful technique deserving a new name for it.
Yeah..One has more Chakra into it, and maybe even more spining..after that, the essence of the Jutsu (the 3 step) is the same. The inner layer seems to be the same. I don't know if the outer layer is just chakra layer. But, if he added some kind of modification on his own to this outer layer, then it becomes a bit different than Rasengan.
The inner layer seems to be the same. I don't know if the outer layer is just chakra layer. But, if he added some kind of modification on his own to this outer layer, then it becomes a bit different than Rasengan.
I know that..we can only theorize what exactly is the function of this layer... Maybe is created due to the Chakra infused in it?...BUt you agree wiht me that it needs the 3 step right?;)
Apollian
2006-02-18, 11:56
First, Naruto has something even a Team orochimaru fan like yourself can never deny. It is called a plot shield, and it is the true ultimate defens, there is no way anybody will ever kill Naruto, and it should be clear that we will see him becoming the most powerful shinobi and hokage in the whole narutoverse.
Like it or not, this is a truth that is bound to happen.
Second, you may wish to stop referring to the legend. As you might remember, Kishimoto BASED the story on it, not everything is like it is in the legend. In addition, even in the legend Kyubi defeated each and every other demon and was the unmatched strongest among them.
@Topic
Sounds good to me. Although I personally don't see anyting capable of taking down Naruto or Kyubi, it would feel a bit strange if he would beat Orochimaru already. After all there are like what?, 20 years difference between them?
I am just curious who we will see as the "final boss", Orochimaru, or Akatsuki? Sooner or later they might start attacking each other.
I am really looking forward to some fights with CLEAR ends, that show us who is stronger than who, or at least who did beat who.
I am getting a little tired of this exchanging punches thing and then go away again.
I really liked the Chunin exam arc, Kishimoto clearly showed who was stronger than who there.
BTW, anyone knows if we see Sai or Yamato in this chapter?
i think your missing the whole point, nobody is into this series because of how it will end, we are all here for the ride. i hate Dragonball Z, but i have to bring it up to prove a point to you.
firstly Gouki was not the most powerful at many times in the series, 2nd point is he died (Twice) which shows that the main person can be killed.
to hear you say that Naruto is the main man so nothing will ever happen to him is just totally backward thinking.
Personally, I don't see any of the characters in the manga stopping a 4 tailed Naruto with force. They'll have to wait him out and hope that Naruto collapses from all the damage Kyuubi's chakra is doing to him.
Actually that's interesting, what kind of tactic/attack does it take to beat the current form of Naruto?
Sheer damage : That seems rather hard as you need to pass through the chakra armor and to overwhelme Naruto's healing factor.
Still, attacks like Deidara's #18n Itachi's Amaterasu or Kakashi's MS jutsu should be able to hurt him or even kill him depending of how/where they strike.
If Oro's Kusanagi really transperced Naruto in this chapter then a strike through Naruto's head would do the job as well.
Genjutsu : Genjutsu seems to be Naruto's main weakness, yet there are 2 probleme for such technique against 4 tailed form.
Firstly it's unknown if Naruto's really in control right now and we don't know how the Kyubi would react to Genjutsu but more importantly the way to cancel Genjutsu is to release more power to disrupt the chakra flow in your brain.
In his current form I don't see a Genjutsu able to remain more than an instant on Naruto, he just release too much chakra for anything of the sort to work correctly.
The only Genjutsu I can see working is the Tsukiyomi as the effect is instantaneous and thus can't be dispelled by power. The reaction of the Kyubi still remains an unknown factor.
Seal : It seems to me one of the best way.
Without talking about the Shiki Fujinn seals like Jiraiya's, Orochimaru's or Chiyo's could do a fine job.
The main problem would be to get close to Naruto without dying and maybe to bypass the chakra armor if the seal has to be on the skin.
Chiyo's type of seal which were directly marked on the landscape to supress chakra would be even greater.
At least it would lessen Naruto and his armor anyway.
Buying time : The "simplest" way if you're good enough to survive Naruto's attacks. Naruto can't keep this form too long as it destroys his body, if you can survive long enough then finishing off Naruto when his body can't handle the Kyubi's chakra anymore should be quite easy.
Various plot no jutsu : Shodai's jutsu or everything similar yet to be introduced.
Tyrone Biggums
2006-02-18, 12:14
Wait wait, am i seeing this right or has this thread not turned into a bunch of ppl complaining and asking where Sasuke is...WOW IM AMAZED!!!
But yeah, i think Yamato is gonna be the one to stop Naruto somehow with w/e it is he does, then retreat and when Oro and comp leave Sai follows them to their lair.
Wheres sasuke? i miss him ! *complains*
But yeah, i think Yamato is gonna be the one to stop Naruto somehow with w/e it is he does, then retreat and when Oro and comp leave Sai follows them to their lair
Sai seems to be watching naruto more and root were interested in kyuubi.
kishinfoulux
2006-02-18, 12:42
was it actually stated that what oro is doing is "regenerating"? i dont think it is. just looks like a cooler variation of kwarmi to me. anyways this battle is just fine. i dont see why people complain. let naruto vent some frustration onto oro for a bit. he has every right to.
oh and i read a couple of pages back that the 4th "let" kyuubi live by sealing him instead of killing him. that made me laugh. the 4th didnt "let" anyone live. he had no choice but to seal him and he died.
The point is that Oro will still walk out smelling like a Rose. I respect Naruto for the potential anal-pounding hes holding over Orochimaru. I would love him to vent it on Sasuke and pwn him. Teheeee!
Illuyankas
2006-02-18, 14:11
I'm thinking that the sword hasn't actually reached Naruto's flesh through the chakra skin, and it's just chakra-splash from it's impact you can see on page whatever, not blood. So Orochimaru hasn't actually hurt him yet, even though he's supposedly 'serious'. I mean, it's not as if it wouldn't skewer Naruto like it did Sandaime, but as it hasn't, I think that it needs more force or it can't.
I'm thinking that the sword hasn't actually reached Naruto's flesh through the chakra skin, and it's just chakra-splash from it's impact you can see on page whatever, not blood. So Orochimaru hasn't actually hurt him yet, even though he's supposedly 'serious'. I mean, it's not as if it wouldn't skewer Naruto like it did Sandaime, but as it hasn't, I think that it needs more force or it can't.
it sent him flying into the side of the cliff thing ... id say it pierced him since its like 1 km long.
but naruto can super rapid heal so it doesnt make much difference.
I think it hit Naruto's body as well, otherwise he wouldn't be pinned to the rock like an insect (with a needle ;) ) Chakra is some kind of enery envelopping Naruto and isn't something physical in which an item could be stuck. If it only hit the chakra shroud, he would just get up and go back.
I've some doubts concerning the healing at this stage. It's true that Kyuubi alway healed him, but this time, it also damages Naruto. His skin is melting and Naruto is bleeding under that shroud of chakra.
Guess it will still somehow heal serious wounds like deep cuts and eventually fractures, but nothing more, just enough for survival.
Yeah if in the next chapter or maybe the one after we will see some side effects and orochimaru's grin will grow 2 sizes that day.
Though for this to end, does orochimaru have to get hurt ? or does someone have to show up?
astayanax
2006-02-18, 18:25
Makes more sense for Naruto to get rescued by Jiraiya and/or Akatsuki. I don't see Yamato doing much if Kabuto has anything to do with it and I am not expecting anything from Sai or Sakura.
Anyway, bring Akatsuki into the scene could tie some loose ends and get all of the conflicts and clashes going with Naruto being the center of a huge tug of war.
I dont see how Naruto can stay in this form for much longer .. if the akatsuki shows up orochimaru might run .. or fight ... then again what will team 7 do .. i wonder what will happen..
Ero-Senn1n
2006-02-18, 18:56
I dont see how Naruto can stay in this form for much longer .. if the akatsuki shows up orochimaru might run .. or fight ... then again what will team 7 do .. i wonder what will happen..
I think he will maybe manage to drain Oro's chakra to a level where Yamato has a chance against him, while Sakura keeps Kabuto busy. And of course a Sai vs Sasuke would be cool. The old man said Sai was the best of his generation, so i expect of him quite a lot despite the fact I don't like him. Also Yamato has some unfinished business with Oro, it would be cool if he forces Oro to retreat. But I guess the coolest thing would be if Oro and Sasuke are about to win and the Kakashi steps in and shows them the power of MS. Sasuke would piss in his pants then :)
Well, We don't know how many Stamina Oro has consume in relation to his limits, now If he is indeed almost at his limits, and I don't see Oro fighting with anyone besides Naruto, a retreat similar to the one in the sannin batle is expected...but, this plot is supposed to leave us with some important piece of Information, So I don't see Oro retreating without anything shocking happening before it.
Id say he has abit left , but should he really be using it up here? and crawling back to his lair? .. maybe that Akatsuki Kunoichi will make a long awaited debut.
ShikaShika
2006-02-18, 19:48
Makes more sense for Naruto to get rescued by Jiraiya and/or Akatsuki. I don't see Yamato doing much if Kabuto has anything to do with it and I am not expecting anything from Sai or Sakura.
Yamato got his ability for a reason, I'm sure he'll be given a chanse to use it. I don't think Kabuto will be there to help until Orochimaru is in trouble (for one reason or another).
There are a few too many elements present right now for me to make an overall prediction of how things will turn out (which is something naruto has been lacking lately, so that's all good), but there are small things I'll be expecting. Like Naruto getting substantially weakened by Orochimaru (simply kyuubi wearing off perhaps) at which point Sai and/or Yamato will enter the fight. In Sai's case he'll try and do whatever he's been assigned to do, and in Yamato's case I'm assuming he'll try using shodaime's jutsu on Naruto, gaining a momentum. At one point or another Orochimaru will be in trouble (how could the scene ever work otherwise?) and at that moment Kabuto will be able to join and help him. Yamato #2 and Sakura should be able to hold Kabuto off for a while.
w.frostfire
2006-02-18, 19:58
well i actually think this is goin to be like another DBZ copy (same as to the deidara bunshin warping due to kakashi's mangekyou)....
same as in DB GT wherein goku turns into a big gorilla thing(like naruto,turning into half-kyuubi[somethin like that]) then sees pan then turns into ssj4(which might actually happen,who knows, maybe at the 9th tail??)
all i can say is.. wtf is happenin... what happened to nicely done strategies and alike..? :o
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-18, 20:31
My personal thought...
Nothing works on the Kyuubi not Ninjutsu, Genjutsu or Taijutsu...the only things that might work could be:
- special artifacts [Kusanagi]
- special bloodline technique [Yamamoto's to control Jinchuuriki's]
- (Heavy/Master) Kinjutsu [Shiki Fuujin]
Also the Kyuubi really is in control...i believe that became pretty much a fact the moment Naruto really began to transform and the Kyuubi grabbed Naruto's soul/body..
I think that before Naruto becomes hokage that he is left without the Kyuubi...
But because of the Kyuubi still has an enormous amount of chakra/stamina..
Next episode i actually expect Kabuto to fight Yamamoto & Sakura...and probably before Kabuto dies or Sakura...Sasuke comes in :)
Oodama Rasengan is S- Ranked though...but that is different from an normal Rasengan...
The 2nd Data Book stops at the end of the Kakashi Gaiden, the Oodama Rasengan isn't ranked yet.
Fukitsu Naruto
2006-02-18, 21:26
So many possibilities and outcomes. Guess we, the audience, will just have to wait and see until Kishimoto releases chapter 296. Perseonally, I am hoping Naruto goes to a 5-tailed state and make everyone remember why the Kyubi could only be sealed and not killed in battle.
astayanax
2006-02-18, 21:49
Perseonally, I am hoping Naruto goes to a 5-tailed state and make everyone remember why the Kyubi could only be sealed and not killed in battle.
What are you talking about? It was proven the 4th could had killed Kyuubi if he felt like it.
Apart from that, I am done arguing over this. I know how this battle is going to end and I will leave it at that.
So many possibilities and outcomes. Guess we, the audience, will just have to wait and see until Kishimoto releases chapter 296. Perseonally, I am hoping Naruto goes to a 5-tailed state and make everyone remember why the Kyubi could only be sealed and not killed in battle.
Thats a prety good possibilaty. But one thing is for sure. Oro's Sword did only squat to Naruto. And i still say Kabuto's number is up. Oro will get away but not him. He's probably teh one who will revealthe info about Sasuke. Maybe by torture from Kakashi's MS.
So many possibilities and outcomes. Guess we, the audience, will just have to wait and see until Kishimoto releases chapter 296. Perseonally, I am hoping Naruto goes to a 5-tailed state and make everyone remember why the Kyubi could only be sealed and not killed in battle.
Yeah, and I hope he goes 9 tails, dies, and releases Kyuubi. Then Yamato will tame it and it will become Konoha's greatest hokage ever, and the series will be renamed "Kyuubi."
I wonder if sasuke could handle the 4 tails ... i mean if the 4 tails is "stronger" than orochimaru ... >_<
kakashi did say sasuke could never kill itachi if he used the seal power .. hope thats not true.
astayanax
2006-02-18, 23:54
Thats a prety good possibilaty. But one thing is for sure. Oro's Sword did only squat to Naruto. And i still say Kabuto's number is up. Oro will get away but not him. He's probably teh one who will revealthe info about Sasuke. Maybe by torture from Kakashi's MS.
Eh? Kusanagi sent Naruto sprawling and all Orochimaru did was stabbed him with it.
Anyway, if Kabuto could get away from Kakashi and the legendary Sannin; I think it is safe to say he can easily get away from Yamato and Sakura if it fell down to that. I highly suspect Sai is not going to confront Kabuto and Naruto is already ignoring him.
What are you talking about? It was proven the 4th could had killed Kyuubi if he felt like it.
I guess, in your dreams.
Eh? Kusanagi sent Naruto sprawling and all Orochimaru did was stabbed him with it.
All it's done is push Kyuubi/Naruto, if it had pierced him or stabbed him surely it would have gone through his body and not just pushed him away?
But this is manga afterall so I guess it doesn't have to be realistic in any way, shape or form.
astayanax
2006-02-19, 09:26
I guess, in your dreams.
If you want to ignore the facts, that is your business but it is there to see.
All it's done is push Kyuubi/Naruto, if it had pierced him or stabbed him surely it would have gone through his body and not just pushed him away?
Not necessarily, since the sword was still attached to Orochimaru's mouth.
If you want to ignore the facts, that is your business but it is there to see.
Facts! It is pretty obvious how much you distort the facts. Actually, as usual, you either forgot to read the chapters or you are incapable of separating the illusionary-manga you usually refer to from the real one.
Why does the sword still being attached to Oro's mouth have anything to do with whether it's just pushed 4tails or actually gone into 4tails body?
Anyway I guess we'll find out next chap, the only reason I wouldn't want the sword to have much of an effect is because a sword thrust seems like quite mundane move to take out 4tails Naruto.
I'd prefer to see Oro do some interesting jutsu's, instead of his elasti-girl/sword routine.
astayanax
2006-02-19, 10:31
Facts! It is pretty obvious how much you distort the facts. Actually, as usual, you either forgot to read the chapters or you are incapable of separating the illusionary-manga you usually refer to from the real one.
What you call distorting is what I call logical analysing. That is all I am saying on this matter.
Anyway I guess we'll find out next chap, the only reason I wouldn't want the sword to have much of an effect is because a sword thrust seems like quite mundane move to take out 4tails Naruto.
Kusanagi isn't just any sword. However, I doubt it would do much either since it was in fact a simple sword thrust.
Maybe Orochimaru did it to buy som time with the Kusanagi, so he can prepare a nice jutsu to welcome Naruto when he's back.
What you call distorting is what I call logical analysing. That is all I am saying on this matter.
Usually presenting your logical analysis as a fact and then failing miserably many times do not suggest a good logical analysis (even the logical part is questionable for that).
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-19, 13:59
The 2nd Data Book stops at the end of the Kakashi Gaiden, the Oodama Rasengan isn't ranked yet.
Oh i see...i had this info from Leaf Ninja... :)
Really? That's weird because I remembered Leaf Ninja as a good site which kept its facts straight.
Rurouni Zeke
2006-02-19, 14:13
Oh i see...i had this info from Leaf Ninja... :)
I just looked on Leaf Ninja and it said Oodama Rasengan is "Unknown (potential S)"
Ero-Senn1n
2006-02-19, 14:23
From the way the black chakra ball jutsu was used it seems that it was kyuubi's jutsu. The previously seen 2 boss monsters have used all the same kind of jutsu: a big ball of something shoot out from their mouth and causing huge destruction. Both Gamabunta and Shukaku used that, nothing else did they show. I mean Gamabunta even said that he cannot perform a jutsu because he cannot use hand seal, so a demon is not capable to use even the lowest level jutsu which a human can. Also katsuya did spit a big poison ball. Only Manda didn't use such a jutsu. Other jutsu those boss monsters used can be related to their body, like Manda's skin shed jutsu against that huge katon of gama+jiraiya.
I'm disappointed by Naruto so far, this black ball is not his jutsu I guess, than what the hell is "that" jutsu? I think it's not the 4-tails state, Jiraiya would never call that a jutsu, so i hope Naruto will use it. Also he has to use something like that because Oro currently doesn't seem like he lost too much chakra, he can still win against the other 3 even without Sasuke's help.
Simply using the power of kyuubi is lame, Gaara could use special jutsu even before the timeskip (against Kimimaro).
Gaara had (been) trained, performed ninja duties, and killed many people since he was small (like the previous 7 years before the timeskip, that seems to be a considerable advantage). So, it should be obvious that he should have considerable advantage over Naruto in terms of the number of jutsus they can perform. And, I believe Gaara has more intelligence than Naruto, and he had sufficient chakra to begin with. So, it is not really fair to compare them in that aspect.
Also, unless we are told so, I don't think the demons can be stamped as not being able to use head seals. In Manda or Gamabunta's case, they do not actually have the hands to help them in that aspect. For, Monkey King Enma, that might not be the case. But, after thinking carefully, maybe they can use any (powerful or regular) technique (they are assigned) without the need of hand seals, that's why they are not required to use hand seals. Also, considering the chakra capacity of a human and a demon, even they use a hand seal, the power they generate by the humanly-techniques may still be small compared to what they can generate naturally using their own techniques.
Also, for Gamabunta, he used a water-ball, he could be able to generate oil from his body, and he could do transformation. Since he can generate oil, it is possible that he might use fire-related jutsus on his own, without Jiraiya's help.
Now, considering Kyuubi and Naruto, even if Kyuubi was taught hand seals, will the power he can generate be greater than what that black-chakra-ball technique can generate? The powerful summons that we have observed do generally rely on strength based techniques. The only advantage Kyuubi and other demons can gain using hand seals would be when they need to perform genjutsu/sealing/specific ninjutsu techniques. But, in a world where all their opponents can use only strength based techniques, will they need that? I don't think so. However, Naruto's case is still different, since Kyuubi cannot use his original power level. So, it might be to his advantage if he can learn and use hand seal related techniques. But, if he can use that, he might try to use unsealing technique to break free, so it is not very desirable. Simply, making them using hand seals would complicate things a little bit.
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-19, 16:36
I just looked on Leaf Ninja and it said Oodama Rasengan is "Unknown (potential S)"
:D that's right...i consider it S-Ranked
Yellow Flash
2006-02-19, 17:20
I'd like to see Sakura catch Orochimaru's neck and go smashy smashy on his head.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-19, 18:01
@ Sazelyt:
Yondaime "reduced him to a state where he can't do anything", to quote Kabuto.
It would have been easy to kill Naruto so Kyuubi would die.
So, yes, it is incorrect to say that Kyuubi wins because he is still alive, as that is what Yondaime wanted.
According to the manga Yondaime wanted Naruto to be seen as a hero, and to keep Kyuubi alive.
drunkenlotus
2006-02-20, 05:54
From the way the black chakra ball jutsu was used it seems that it was kyuubi's jutsu. The previously seen 2 boss monsters have used all the same kind of jutsu: a big ball of something shoot out from their mouth and causing huge destruction. Both Gamabunta and Shukaku used that, nothing else did they show. I mean Gamabunta even said that he cannot perform a jutsu because he cannot use hand seal, so a demon is not capable to use even the lowest level jutsu which a human can. Also katsuya did spit a big poison ball. Only Manda didn't use such a jutsu. Other jutsu those boss monsters used can be related to their body, like Manda's skin shed jutsu against that huge katon of gama+jiraiya.
I'm disappointed by Naruto so far, this black ball is not his jutsu I guess, than what the hell is "that" jutsu? I think it's not the 4-tails state, Jiraiya would never call that a jutsu, so i hope Naruto will use it. Also he has to use something like that because Oro currently doesn't seem like he lost too much chakra, he can still win against the other 3 even without Sasuke's help.
Simply using the power of kyuubi is lame, Gaara could use special jutsu even before the timeskip (against Kimimaro).
I agree, "that Jutsu" probably isn't, and shouldn't be, the 4th Kyuubi Tail, because first of all, Jiraiya made a much bigger deal out of "that jutsu" than he did about the 4th tail, and because growing a 4th Kyuubi Tail isn't a "jutsu" at all.
So...yeah I believe we still have yet to see it. Maybe it's an...ability to use the Shiki Fuujin an unlimited number of times using expendable kage bunshin. That...would be kinda imba.
I kinda want Naruto to do something really witty with his old moves before moving onto brand new ones (this discludes Kyuubi Naruto). Maybe he could do...a Kage Bunshin Shuriken...but with Rasengans instead lol. Or maybe engulf his clones in Oodama Rasengans and have them jump at the enemy or something. Oh the possibilities. :heh:
naruto_jh
2006-02-21, 07:04
Kabuto mentioned at the ned of the manga saying..."hes even closer to the kyuubi than ever b4" when naruto got speared down bak near the bridge by oro.
Who is kabuto indicating?? Sasuke(hiding) or yamato???
astayanax
2006-02-24, 13:15
None.
He means that Naruto and Kyuubi had never been as close as the same being until now.
LeafNinja
2006-02-24, 13:41
:D that's right...i consider it S-Ranked
Probably S because it seems unique to Naruto ala Kakashi and the seperate S rank entry for Raikiri.
What happened to the forums these past few days ? I was desperate ^^'
Come on people!!
Let's make the kick-ass Naruto Chapter 296 thread :D
We've a lot to discuss about it \(^_^)/
You'll all probably know this by now... I posted that on another forum Thursday... in Dutch ^^'
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1611/clz30013qk.jpg
(Resized picture)
In short:
Last time (295), Orochimaru managed to pin down Naruto.
The Kusanagi didn't seem to have hurt Naruto. He just takes it in his hands a throws it away to Orochimaru's big suprise and damaging the remaining of the bridge. Yamato, Sakura and Kabuto have to get out of the way. Sakura wants to safe Sasuke this time and runs toward Kyuubi. (サスケ君は私たすけだしてみせる！) ? When Sakura is close to Kyuubi, he hits her with appearantly one of his tails. In the meanwhile Sai is observing Orochimaru, who's throwing up himself again out of the long snake neck version, still laughing. Sakura is healing her wound.
Yamato managed to immobilize Kyuubi using a a jutsu (Yabai ?) and stops Kabuto, advancing towards the wounded Sakura as well.
While Kyuubi is breaking out, Kabuto disappears and Yamato uses another technique on Kyuuubi (Kakuon Nitten Suishu), touching Kyuubi's chest with his hand and retreating immediately, being connected to him by some kind of rope (chakra rope ? ). Yamato tries to turn Naruto back to normal.
Meanwhile, Sai showed himself in front of Orochimaru, with a big smile on his face.
I really enjoyed this chapter as it really met my expectations. Unfortunately I've only started with Japanese recently, so it's kind of tough to get the whole picture, my apologies for that.
Looks like my bet on Animesuki's forum that Sakura would get close to Kyuubi in order to try to stop him was right :D
Anyway, it would be nice if we could start discussing the manga chapters seriously, don't you agree ?
Guess we'll now what's up with Sai for real ... Next chapter: "Betrayal" if that translation is correct.
What happened to the forums these past few days ? I was desperate ^^'
And you weere not the only one my friend, I was worry that it was something similar as of last time...a whole year of Posts where lost....:(
Back on topic, I really looking forward to Chapter 297, Maybe at last we have some light about Danzou plans, And by the looks of the Next Chapter name, “Betrayal”, it does not look good.
Probably S because it seems unique to Naruto ala Kakashi and the seperate S rank entry for Raikiri.
Actually given that it seems to be executed thanks to the chakra of the Kyubi it could be ranked as (-) like the jutsu refering to unique abilities.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-24, 16:19
Chapter 296: I don't buy this. Kabuto was part of the conspiracy to obliterate Konoha.
Now he wants to save one ninja girl because Akatsuki is a common foe?
Chapter 296: I don't buy this. Kabuto was part of the conspiracy to obliterate Konoha.
Now he wants to save one ninja girl because Akatsuki is a common foe?
Makes perfect sense. Which is the biggest threat to Oro? The leaf aren't hunting for Oro, so he really doesn't have to worry about them. Akatsuki on the other hand may just do that.
Healing Sakura would at least give the impression that Oro and Kabuto aren't actively seeking the desruction of Konoha at the moment, and Sakura would have this to report to her superiors. Not to mention he healed a minor threat. Alive or dead he probably doesn't think she'll make much of an impact, so why not?
Smart move by Kabuto.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-24, 16:52
Of course it makes sense that he healed Sakura. Though, your claim that Leafs are not hunting Oro is false.
My point was that Akatsuki was a threat before, but Oro and Kabuto tried to annihilate Konoha. That's odd.
Ero-Senn1n
2006-02-25, 09:35
Chapter 296: I don't buy this. Kabuto was part of the conspiracy to obliterate Konoha.
Now he wants to save one ninja girl because Akatsuki is a common foe?
Do you remember Kabuto healing Hinata in the stadium? He was risking the mission.
Furthermore most of us on this forum already agreed that Kabuto has his own goals, he is not kind of a simple slave for Orochimaru. Also what he said is logical even from Oro's perspective, and we don't know Kabuto's own perspective.
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