View Full Version : Why hasn't sauske...
Used Kage Bunshin? he has seen it numerous times with his sharingan activated which leads me to believe he copied it. Why use Lee's moves and not kage bunshin?
Cause he thinks it's useless and a waste of chakra.
I have watched tha anime twice through and don't remember him saying that at all, but i could be wrong. If you would be so kind as to post a screenshot of the anime or manga with chapter and page i would love to see it.
He doesn't say so, he just does. Cause if you see how they are used by people they aren't really that helpfull.
He doesn't say so, he just does. Cause if you see how they are used by people they aren't really that helpfull.
So basically you have no idea.
Kage bunshin has basically all the skills the user has we have only seen two people use kage bunshin, naruto and kakashi. Kakashi never really used his kage bunshins at all, they just stood there, and naruto isn't really the best ninja of all time. He basically just rushes into battle without thinking, but because he has such a huge ammount of stamina (haha or HP) he never really get hurt. If used by a genius the kage bunshins would be a huge help. but that is an oxy-moron a genius not using a technique that would help him/her out in battle wouldn't be a genius eh?
Tiberium Wolf
2006-02-19, 07:41
Sarotobi also used Kage bunshin against Oro. It was said there that it was a waste of chakra.
Sarotobi also used Kage bunshin against Oro. It was said there that it was a waste of chakra.
You're right, my mistake. But i looked where he said "it is a waste of chakra" and he never does. Episode 72 seven-teen minutes into the episode is when he does it to summon the shinigami and eat the soles of the first and second. but he never once says that it is a waste of chakra.
Btw i'm not attempting to start a flame war or a fan boy thread, i hate and like all characters alike to me there are only good characters and bad characters (characters who can actually do something, and those who cheerlead)
Sasuke hasn't used kage bunshin, as well as most of the characters, because:
1 - it is a difficult technique. YES, we have to remember kage bunshin was on the forbidden scroll and we have already heard that is a jounin level technique.
2 - this is my assumption, but kage bunshin must consume a lot of chakra, so unless you gotta a kyubi, you have to think very well in which situation you have to use it. Maybe that's why Kakashi usually used Mizu Bunshin instead of the Kage one.
monstert
2006-02-19, 09:27
Kage bunshin splits your chakra equally among the replications. That's why it's only used on certain occasions, like when Sandaime did that sealing technique. And even then, only few clones are made because the more clones you make, the less chakra each of them will have. Kakashi made lots of clones only to scare those mercenaries, he didn't expect to have to fight them. And Naruto does it because he has a lot of stamina.
UberDork
2006-02-19, 09:50
kage bunshin is a real dork no jutsu...
that wouldn't be good for his reputation...
You're right, my mistake. But i looked where he said "it is a waste of chakra" and he never does. Episode 72 seven-teen minutes into the episode is when he does it to summon the shinigami and eat the soles of the first and second. but he never once says that it is a waste of chakra.
Btw i'm not attempting to start a flame war or a fan boy thread, i hate and like all characters alike to me there are only good characters and bad characters (characters who can actually do something, and those who cheerlead)
I think an Anbu said it... He's too old and so his Chakra Lvls are too low... But the technique itself isn't a waste as seen when Kakashi used it.
Some of you are off with your theories about Kage Bushin, here are the facts:
A)Kage Busnhin is a exact copy of the user, It divides the chakra equally between the clones, but this does not means it consumes any stamina, here is a chart:
if I have 100% stamina, and the user needs to make a Kage Bushin, he could only use 10% of his stamina. with this he create Chakra, and this 10% is divided in each clone...Now it is obvious that the more chakra you put into a clone the most useful it is..As we see that Sandaime Kage Bunshin took more damage, than the Kage Bunshin Naruto makes, that normally get destroyed when they get hit.
B)apart from Kakshi and NAruto, 3 more people have used Kage Bushin: Itachi, Orochimaru and Sandaime.
C)Even if Kage Bunshin is a Difficult jutsu (when it was never stated by the way) does not matter because the Sharingan can copy this jutsu without problem.
D) Most likely Sasuke has not copy the Kage Bushin by the moment because maybe his Sharingan was not developed enough to copy the Jutsu, in fact Sasuke never got the chance to copy Ninjutsu, only some specific Taijutsu moves.
Uchiha_rurik you bring up some good points, although i don't think the sharingan has a level to copy different jutsus, if you're able to copy a taijutsu i think you should be able to copy a ninjustu as a ninjustu you only need knowledge of that justu and taijutsu you need to train a lot.
Either way, he still saw kage bunshin when he recieved the 3rd dot in his sharingun bringing him to kakashi's level before the time skip. (although i'm not sure if he saw naruto PERFORM kage bunshin with that level of eye.
from how much he likes it and how quickly he learned it, it seems like Naruto has a special talent for using kage bunshin.
also he uses it in his melee combo for the four-way slide kick to make an opening.
also, with it he could use rasengan without mastering it.
as for Sasuke, it's just not his style to swarm the enemy with clones that could be wiped out in one move. he can hold his own without wasting chakra and concentration for something like that.
monstert
2006-02-19, 15:38
Even if Sasuke didn't copy the jutsu, Orochimaru could've thought it to him by now.
Kage bunshin is a Naruto thing, Sasuke doesnt want to be similar to Naruto in anyway so why would he use the technique that Naruto seems to be using every time.
Individuality runs deep.
Uchiha_rurik you bring up some good points, although i don't think the sharingan has a level to copy different jutsus, if you're able to copy a taijutsu i think you should be able to copy a ninjustu as a ninjustu you only need knowledge of that justu and taijutsu you need to train a lot.
Either way, he still saw kage bunshin when he recieved the 3rd dot in his sharingun bringing him to kakashi's level before the time skip. (although i'm not sure if he saw naruto PERFORM kage bunshin with that level of eye.
That's not quite right, Sharingas has the ability to copy all NInjutsu, Taijutus and Genjutsu, and then You don't have to train to be able to perform any of this Jutsu (In fact Sasuke copied part of Lee Initial lotus, and could perform it without training) , of course there are some specific Situations where your body is not apt to perform certain Jutsu, because of the Physical restrains of the user, again, I pointed out a logical reason why SAsuke could copy body movements and and not Jutsu that requires Chakra and Hand seals to be performed. other than that Sauske never really got to fight someone that he could copy a Jutsu from.
And no, Sasuke never got to see Naruto in the moment he was performing the Kage Bunshin while having his 3 dot Sharingan.
So basically the only reason he doesn't use it is because he doesn't want to be like naruto, but doesn't use a jutsu that is high class and impresses jounins when a genin can use it.
I never even thought about why sauske hasn't used kage bunshin until about 3 days ago, when i started watching the series for the 3rd time over.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-19, 17:37
Sarotobi also used Kage bunshin against Oro. It was said there that it was a waste of chakra.
Then again, Orochimaru was surprised that Sandaime didn't use Kage Bunshin to fight the Hokages.
So, it is not useless, but Sandaime was very low on chakra so it wasn't a good move for him.
Some of you are off with your theories about Kage Bushin, here are the facts:
Ah, we'll see.
A)Kage Busnhin is a exact copy of the user, It divides the chakra equally between the clones.
True.
Now it is obvious that the more chakra you put into a clone the most useful it is..
But the chakra of a clone is decided by the total amount of the clones.
It's not possible to put additional chakra into one clone.
As we see that Sandaime Kage Bunshin took more damage, than the Kage Bunshin Naruto makes, that normally get destroyed when they get hit.
Sandaime's shadow clones were simply at a high level because he was the Hokage.
B)apart from Kakshi and NAruto, 3 more people have used Kage Bushin: Itachi, Orochimaru and Sandaime.
And Mahiru.
C)Even if Kage Bunshin is a Difficult jutsu (when it was never stated by the way) does not matter because the Sharingan can copy this jutsu without problem.
It is a jounin level jutsu, so it has to be more difficult than other low level jutsu.
I agree that Sharingan can copy it easily.
D) Most likely Sasuke has not copy the Kage Bushin by the moment because maybe his Sharingan was not developed enough to copy the Jutsu, in fact Sasuke never got the chance to copy Ninjutsu, only some specific Taijutsu moves.
True.
-
But the chakra of a clone is decided by the total amount of the clones.
It's not possible to put additional chakra into one clone.
Quite easily done actually.
Given that the chakra is divided equally between all the clones you just have to produce more chakra from your stamina depending of the amount of chakra the clones need for their task.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-19, 18:20
Quite easily done actually.
Given that the chakra is divided equally between all the clones you just have to produce more chakra from your stamina depending of the amount of chakra the clones need for their task.
The chakra used for Kage Bunshin jutsu will decide how many clones are created.
Their individual strength is NOT decided by the user of the jutsu.
It is based on the total amount, the more clones the less chakra for a single clone.
Sandaime's shadow clones were simply at a high level because he was the Hokage.
I don't get why you decided to truncate my post, when I used this as an example of difference between well made KageBushin and mediocre KageBushin. Either way, It is my understanding that this was because of this, the stamina he had, the amount of Chakra each clone had and the experience Sandaime had in controlling his Chakra molding.
And Mahiru.
Use Spoiler Tags, this is an anime thread. that the reason I did not even bother to mention this person.
It is a jounin level jutsu, so it has to be more difficult than other low level jutsu.
I agree that Sharingan can copy it easily.
Of course it has to be more difficult than Bushin Jutsu, still this does not means is a Rasengan Difficult Jutsu.
The chakra used for Kage Bunshin jutsu will decide how many clones are created.
Their individual strength is NOT decided by the user of the jutsu.
It is based on the total amount, the more clones the less chakra for a single clone.
No, I can use 50% of my stamina to create only one clone, the User itself is the one who decides how many Kagebushin he will create. this means I just need to put more stamina in order for each clone to be more resistant.
If your assertion was true Kakashi would have only created a couple of Kage Bushin and not dozens
Yeah i remember when kakashi did it, he said something along the lines of "i can use the same amount of chakra as naruto and use it as a bluff" naruto created ~5 kakashi made ~100
Either way, sauske had a bunch of chances to copy it.
Yeah i remember when kakashi did it, he said something along the lines of "i can use the same amount of chakra as naruto and use it as a bluff" naruto created ~5 kakashi made ~100
Either way, sauske had a bunch of chances to copy it.
Well, I think he never compared his chakra's to Naruto's Chakra, but this only showed Kakashi Chakra efficency.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-20, 03:07
I don't get why you decided to truncate my post, when I used this as an example of difference between well made KageBushin and mediocre KageBushin. Either way, It is my understanding that this was because of this, the stamina he had, the amount of Chakra each clone had and the experience Sandaime had in controlling his Chakra molding.
I replied to your post to correct you, that's why, since you believe that Sandaime gave each clone more chakra.
Again, Old Sandaime didn't have a lot of stamina. He was very weak in this respect.
Your logic is off there. His Kage Bunshin didn't get killed right away because he was Hokage Level.
It's that simple.
Use Spoiler Tags, this is an anime thread. that the reason I did not even bother to mention this person.
I doubt that is the true reason, but I'll let you swim away.
Of course it has to be more difficult than Bushin Jutsu, still this does not means is a Rasengan Difficult Jutsu.
You replied to this for no reason at all. I said it is jounin level difficult.
That's why many people were surprised that a genin could use it.
Unless you disagree with this, you shouldn't reply since that's all I said.
Never did I mention the Rasengan.
No, I can use 50% of my stamina to create only one clone, the User itself is the one who decides how many Kagebushin he will create. this means I just need to put more stamina in order for each clone to be more resistant.
If your assertion was true Kakashi would have only created a couple of Kage Bushin and not dozens
The amount of chakra used for Kage Bunshin is already meant to decide the number of clones!
Stamina is simply raw power meant to get converted into chakra. I don't understand why you mention it.
Chakra is used for jutsu. If Naruto used 10% chakra for Kage Bunshin, he will create some clones.
If he uses 80% chakra, he will create a lot more clones.
Your claim that Naruto can give each clone different amount of chakra is pure imagination and it was never stated.
All we know is that Kage Bunshin would divide the chakra among the clones.
That's why Naruto is the only one to create so many bunshins.
Naruto's chakra pool is that huge that he can divide his chakra many times.
In the Zabuza arc, Kakashi created a dozen of clones to scare the people away, but it wouldn't have been effective!
To create so many clones means to give each one very little chakra.
The chakra used for Kage Bunshin jutsu will decide how many clones are created.
Their individual strength is NOT decided by the user of the jutsu.
It is based on the total amount, the more clones the less chakra for a single clone.
Try to read what you quote for a change, I don't talk about strength.
The amount of chakra each clones have depends of the amount of chakra created by the user from his stamina when he uses the jutsu and this amount of chakra is chosen by the user.
That's why Naruto can create hundreds or even thousands of useful clone thanks to his gigantic stamina and why Kakashi could still create dozen of useless Kage Bunshin even if he was almost out of chakra.
I replied to your post to correct you, that's why, since you believe that Sandaime gave each clone more chakra.
Again, Old Sandaime didn't have a lot of stamina. He was very weak in this respect.
Your logic is off there. His Kage Bunshin didn't get killed right away because he was Hokage Level.
It's that simple. .
Try reading peoples complete posts before replying fanatically, you tried to prove me wrong by using a small fraction of a Paragraph that was supossed to explain something.
Again, I used an example to illustrate the difference on Clones that can outstand a considerable amount of Damage, compared to clones that are more fragile, in this case, the amount of Chakra divided in each clone made the clone more resistant, Saying he is at Hokage level does not explain the reasons why those clones receive that amount of Damage without been destroyed, I gave the reasons why.
BTW, Sandaime Stamina was not “weak” it was weak compared to his old self, that either way, his “weak’ state was superior than any other shinoby currently in Konoha, Maybe with some exeptions.
I doubt that is the true reason, but I'll let you swim away. .
Yeah..Is that’s not the reason, could you tell me why I decided to forget about a Shinoby not presented in the anime yet? But still your Original post is not edited with spoiler tag, and this is still not a manga only thread.
You replied to this for no reason at all. I said it is jounin level difficult.
That's why many people were surprised that a genin could use it.
Unless you disagree with this, you shouldn't reply since that's all I said.
Never did I mention the Rasengan. .
And your first post did not make any sense to begin with, You Said that Kagebushin is a difficult Jutsu to learn, but this does not means, is the top of the Bunch in difficulty, still the fact remains WE don’t now how hard it is to learn this Jutsu compared to others ( I used an example with rasengan and Bushin), the only thing we know is that this jutsu is a B-rank Jutsu, and jutsus are sometimes ranked just because of the strenght, power or Charka rather than how difficult it is to learn.
The amount of chakra used for Kage Bunshin is already meant to decide the number of clones!
Stamina is simply raw power meant to get converted into chakra. I don't understand why you mention it.
Chakra is used for jutsu. If Naruto used 10% chakra for Kage Bunshin, he will create some clones.
If he uses 80% chakra, he will create a lot more clones. .
Try reading my post in order to understand then, Chakra come from the Stamina, so its is obvious that Naruto or any other Shinoby that wants to make a clone needs to use a certain degree of stamina to create chakra..duh.
Your claim that Naruto can give each clone different amount of chakra is pure imagination and it was never stated. .
Please quote the Sentence where I said that, Don’t put words in my mouth,.
All we know is that Kage Bunshin would divide the chakra among the clones.
That's why Naruto is the only one to create so many bunshins.
Naruto's chakra pool is that huge that he can divide his chakra many times.
In the Zabuza arc, Kakashi created a dozen of clones to scare the people away, but it wouldn't have been effective!
To create so many clones means to give each one very little chakra.
You are contradicting yourself in the same post:
First you state that the Amount of Chakra will decide the amount of clones to be created, and then you are saying that Kakashi could create a lot of clones without Chakra.
Again, is up to the Shinoby on to how many Clones he will make, with a specific amount of chakra the user decides the quantity, of course the bigger the amount of clones is created (again wiht the same amount of Chakra) will mean that this clones will have less chakra and thus, will be less effective.
C)Even if Kage Bunshin is a Difficult jutsu (when it was never stated by the way) does not matter because the Sharingan can copy this jutsu without problem.
Well the Jounins at the tournament were impressed that Naruto could use it... and it is Jounin-Lvl after all so I'd say it isn't the easiest Jutsu.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-20, 16:08
@ Hunter & Rurik:
From my understanding, the chakra used for Kage Bunshin will decide the number of clones.
I can't comprehend your logic, both of you, if you claim (maybe you don't, and I misunderstood) that Naruto can create one clone, give him so much chakra, then release the jutsu, create a clone once again and this time the clone would have more or less chakra. This would not make sense considering that the amount of chakra used for the jutsu would only decide the number of clones. The chakra of every clone (and they all have the same amount) is decided by the total number of clones created. That is why, from my understanding, why Naruto can create so many clones, and that is also why Kakashi could create a dozen kage bunshin, but he said they are useless because he created so many of them resulting in less chakra for all of them.
You understood that wrong.
Ebisu explained that rather well : a ninja have a certain amount of stamine, from this stamina he can create a certain amount of chakra which will be used to do a jutsu.
In the case of the Kage Bunshin additionaly to the chakra used for the jutsu itself the chakra gathered inside the body from the stamina will be distributed equally among the clones and the user.
So depending of the chakra gathered by the ninja at the beginning, the clones will have more or less chakra it's that simple.
The chakra created doesn't force a certain number of clone, with the same amount of chakra Naruto can create 2 clones who will have 33% of Naruto's current amount of chakra or create 99 clones who will have 1% of the current chakra (again not counting the chakra needed to use the jutsu itself).
That's why Kakashi with very few chakra could still create many but useless Kage Bunshin because they were also out of chakra and that's why Naruto can summon less than 50 clones despite the fact he's a chakra powerhouse always using way too much chakra for what he does.
As far as I know, the chakra pool of the one who performs Kage Bunshin will be divided on the number of clones (including himself). If Naruto makes 1, his chakra pool will be split between the two (50-50), if he makes 2, each of them will have 33% of the chakra pool. Then again, they might also be able to decide how much chakra they want to invest in clones, don't know if the mechanics were ever specifically stated in the manga or anime.
Aimingan12
2008-06-06, 09:25
Sasuke can copy any technique with eez,naturally he didnt copy Narutos jutsu probably because he either wanted to learn it on his own or he thought that Naruto was weak and that is one of his strong jutsus so there is no point in copying them.
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