View Full Version : Is Yamato a Hokage lvl ninja?
Is he? I think he is. His staminna seems to b ok. He has used multiple jutsus and isnt tired yet. He also knows Hokage lvl jutsus and i pressume he probably knows a lotta sealing jutsus. Plus he has go Shodaimes cells which means he has got Shodaimes looks plus strength.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-26, 15:39
I don't think Yamato is even nearly as strong as Shodai Hokage.
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Hunter Nin.
2006-02-26, 16:10
I wouldn't give him that much credit but he does have access to a lot of unique powers.
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-26, 16:32
That is true...Yamato is certainly skilled but Hokage lvl is something that has been mentioned far to easy...
Also that is a very nice signature of the Sannin :) It's weird but its nice.
Since Sannin already means 3 :)...3 Legendary 3 :P
astayanax
2006-02-26, 17:14
Until shown otherwise, Yamato is right below Kakashi and Kabuto's lvl in my eyes. I won't be surprised if Sai is better than Yamato too.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-26, 17:17
Until shown otherwise, Yamato is right below Kakashi and Kabuto's lvl in my eyes.
I won't be surprised if Sai is better than Yamato too.
Recently I agree with all your posts. ^^
Yamato had the best Anbu record under the Third... I wouldn't underestimate this. Sai may be, recording to Danzou, the best of his generation but Yamato stopped Kyuubi. Sai was hiding because he was afraid of getting killed.
Yamato stopped Kyuubi with the Shodai's jutsu.
I wouldn't see this as an argument for his strength compared to Sai, unless the enemy is Naruto.
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I won't be surprised if Sai is better than Yamato too.
Yamato had the best Anbu record under the Third... I wouldn't underestimate this. Sai may be, recording to Danzou, the best of his generation but Yamato stopped Kyuubi. Sai was hiding because he was afraid of getting killed.
astayanax
2006-02-26, 17:31
Root Anbu > Anbu
Root Anbu is highly clouded in secrecy. I am not denying that Yamato has the best Anbu record, but the fact remains the hokages and their subordinates know little about the root whereas Danzou knows about everything in Konoha.
As to why Sai was 'hiding', it is better to see what his secret mission is all about first before jumping to conclusions.
Are you telling me he would stand a chance against 4 tails?
There are many factions in Konoha who lie hidden... Yet we can't assume they are strong only because they are hidden. I agree that the root was powerful but we didn't see one of them fight until now.
astayanax
2006-02-26, 17:41
Are you telling me he would stand a chance against 4 tails?
He probably can't, but neither could Yamato hence why Yamato immediately start using disabling and sealing-ish jutsus.
There are many factions in Konoha who lie hidden... Yet we can't assume they are strong only because they are hidden. I agree that the root was powerful but we didn't see one of them fight until now.
Anbu root is different from most of these regular factions though. They still can pull weight even with the Hokage and they have a direct influence with the council as well. At the same time, none of these people are allowed to see the inner workings of the Root.
Now Danzou's beliefs could very well be wrong, but seeing he has access to the profiles of both the regular members and his inner sect, it makes more sense to believe his words than anyone else.
Yes that's right... But time will show us how strong he is.
Until shown otherwise, Yamato is right below Kakashi and Kabuto's lvl in my eyes. I won't be surprised if Sai is better than Yamato too.
When Yamato was first introduced, you said he would wipe the floor with Kakashi.
Ero-Senn1n
2006-02-26, 18:54
Till now Yamato did very good his job. Notice how easy he stopped Kabuto with a wood jutsu. He talked with respect to Kakashi but that does not mean that he is below Kakashi's level (not counting the MS), it's more like the respect of a still young person towards someone who is already a legend (copy ninja, etc...).
However he is not hokage level, the only hokage level person in the current arc is Orochimaru. But Yamato has the potential to become kage level. To be strong like that having the blood of the 1st is not enough, he needs to be quite smart, and so far he did his mission in the best way.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-26, 19:02
Notice how easy he stopped Kabuto with a wood jutsu.
Notice that Kabuto was just annoyed by Yamato's inability to understand the situation.
In fact, I think that Kabuto would be able to defeat Yamato effortlessly.
Ero-Senn1n
2006-02-26, 19:15
Notice that Kabuto was just annoyed by Yamato's inability to understand the situation.
In fact, I think that Kabuto would be able to defeat Yamato effortlessly.
I think Kabuto is weaker than Yamato. So that's my opinion against yours, no facts here to debate about :)
Who the hell would know what Kabuto has in his mind, that makes Kabuto interesting. Kabuto is quite lucky to come out alive of this situation with really strong people around. If you can remember a few chapters before Kabuto tried to kill Naruto with his chakra scalpel but failed miserably. How is Yamato supposed to risk Sakura's life in that situation? What Yamato did was perfectly logical from his point of view. Kabuto is just a smart guy who is acting according to the situation even without Orochimaru's orders, he is not a super-fighter, he is a medical ninja.
It's funny to see that Kabuto has healed Hinata and Sakura, the two future girls of the two main characters. I thought Kabuto will likely be killed in this arc, but now I believe Kishimoto really has some special plan with him.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-26, 19:28
I think Kabuto is weaker than Yamato. So that's my opinion against yours, no facts here to debate about.
I respect your opinion.
Kabuto is quite lucky to come out alive of this situation with really strong people around.
I don't think so. Didn't Kabuto go there to fight an akatsuki?
If you can remember a few chapters before Kabuto tried to kill Naruto with his chakra scalpel but failed miserably.
I'm not sure if he tried to kill Naruto.
He did fail, yet we could see his healing power which is simply amazing.
How is Yamato supposed to risk Sakura's life in that situation?
What Yamato did was perfectly logical from his point of view.
Still, Kabuto was annoyed.
Hokage level, no. Kage level, yes, if we define it by the level of Gaara, the Kazekage.
Does yamato remind you have root for some reason?
I dont think yamato is kage lvl as in could take on a akatsuki, but is very high jounin in his own right.
Is he? I think he is. His staminna seems to b ok. He has used multiple jutsus and isnt tired yet. He also knows Hokage lvl jutsus and i pressume he probably knows a lotta sealing jutsus. Plus he has go Shodaimes cells which means he has got Shodaimes looks plus strength.
He deserves to be counted among the greatest shinobi ever because his stamina seems to be okay..? :uhoh:
I dunno, haven't seen enough of the guy yet to make a good impression.
He's got unique wood-manipulation skills, but that's really all I know about him. Haven't seen him fight hand-to-hand, haven't finished seeing him lead a team in a combat situation (though his preparation ability seems to be fairly good).
astayanax
2006-02-27, 09:05
When Yamato was first introduced, you said he would wipe the floor with Kakashi.
And as we learn more about him, my initial judgement was in error. Yamato is fairly smart, cautious, and skilled; but this first confrontation we saw him in currently proves he won't stand much of a chance against the elites like Kakashi, Kabuto and such.
Notice that Kabuto was just annoyed by Yamato's inability to understand the situation.
In fact, I think that Kabuto would be able to defeat Yamato effortlessly.
Agreed. Kabuto felt absolutely no threat around them (Yamato, Sakura). As a matter of fact, he even went and healed the enemy while others tried to bind him down in vain.
Ok... one more time. There is no such thing as "Hokage" level. There are only strong or weak Jounin.
astayanax
2006-02-27, 10:30
That is true; however, hokage lvl can still be used as a comparison to determine's one power over the other.
i THINK yAMATO WAS JUST AFRAID. Just like Kisame and Itachi were afraid to fight Orochimaru. I mean even Shodaime cant compete with Orochimaru. What would Shodaime possibly do against the jutsus Oro has used against Naruto? Shodaime doesnt know shit about Oros jutsus. I mean off course what im sayin its not true but im lookin at it from ur guys point of view. Yamao can compete against Oro he just hasnt done it yet cuz he realizes how dangerous Naruto now he is thats the reason why he didnt want to get close to them. But Oro was actin as if Naruto was a mere pussycat.
Ero-Senn1n
2006-02-27, 11:53
That is true; however, hokage lvl can still be used as a comparison to determine's one power over the other.
There was a clear difference implied between the average kage and hokage level which I remember: Oro being hokage level easily defeated the kazekage. That and other parts of the story give the impression that hokage level is above other kage, of course this is not a fact just my opinion based on the story.
Also in the sand-leaf relation:
Oro killed the 3rd hokage
Sasori killed the 3rd kazekage
Oro seems stronger than Sasori to me, and also he could kill the 3rd only at an old age.
In the stone - leaf war the 4th won the war for the leaf.
That is true; however, hokage lvl can still be used as a comparison to determine's one power over the other.
There is no such thing as a "Hokage lvl". The strongest Jounin can chosen to be Hokage. Hokage is a title and a position of leadership, not a level. Genin is a level. Chunin is a level. Jounin is a level.
Hokage is not a level. Sannin is not a level.
Any Jounin can be a Hokage depending on the strength of the other Jounin in a village.
astayanax
2006-02-27, 12:26
There was a clear difference implied between the average kage and hokage level which I remember: Oro being hokage level easily defeated the kazekage. That and other parts of the story give the impression that hokage level is above other kage, of course this is not a fact just my opinion based on the story.
I agree; but the topic is about hokages in particular and not kages in general. So when we are saying someone is 'hokage' level, we should be implying that they are around the level of the hokages introduced so far rather than someone like the kazekage.
For this topic, it would had been more accurate for the title to be is Yamato a kage lvl ninja since there are strong and weak kages.
In the stone - leaf war the 4th won the war for the leaf.
True again; but we don't know if the Leaf would had lost if the 4th wasn't around. The stone will still have to get through the Uchiha and Hyuuga clan not to mention the God of Shinobi himself who was at this stage still forminable. Also, there is the slight possibility that Jiraiya and Tsunade could had be found and brought back to help just like when the 3rd was killed for example.
astayanax
2006-02-27, 12:28
There is no such thing as a "Hokage lvl".
And I had agreed with you so why are you repeating it? However, it doesn't change the fact it can be used as a means of comparison which I explain above.
And I had agreed with you so why are you repeating it? However, it doesn't change the fact it can be used as a means of comparison which I explain above.
I'm repeating because it's not a valid means of comparison. If you're refering to a specific Hokage, then do that. But, to phrase it as 'hokage level" makes no sense. Unless you are implying that all Hokage are equal or near the same level, which isn't true. The Kage of the sand was taken out by a Genin (Gaara). Do you think any of the leaf's Hokage's would be killed by a Genin, demon container or not?
All of Atakasuki are simply considered very strong Jounin because that's what they are. Every Kage from every village are all strong Jounin, that's why they are selected as Kage.
So the range of strength Hokage can have is extremely varied. Strong Jounin in the leaf may not be considered strong Jounin in another village or visa versa.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-27, 13:33
In fact, the white anbu admired that Saru vs. Oro was a real Hokage Level fight.
So, yes, it can be used as a means of comparison.
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-27, 13:43
I think that Konoha Shinobi are overall the strongest...in all ranks.
Konoha Genins > other Genins
Konoha Chuunin > other Chuunins
Konoha Jounins > other Jounins
Konoha's Kage > other Kages
Because Konoha has the most famous shinobi...alot of the konoha ninja appeared in the chuunin exam... or pre-liminary matches. Konoha has lots of famous ninja's in ranks of jounin and hokage.
But that is compared with the others on the moment.
The Kage of the sand was taken out by a Genin (Gaara). Do you think any of the leaf's Hokage's would be killed by a Genin, demon container or not?
What?
Mr. Johnny 5 the only others Genins we really get to know except those from Konoha are Temari, Gaara and Kankuro.
Quite frankly their powers don't pale in comparison with Konoha's finest.
Yellow Flash
2006-02-27, 16:38
I agree. The Sand was the most dangerous team in the chuunin exam.
In fact, the Leaf Jounin and even the Hokage were impressed.
I think that Konoha Shinobi are overall the strongest...in all ranks.
Konoha Genins > other Genins
Konoha Chuunin > other Chuunins
Konoha Jounins > other Jounins
Konoha's Kage > other Kages
Because Konoha has the most famous shinobi...alot of the konoha ninja appeared in the chuunin exam... or pre-liminary matches. Konoha has lots of famous ninja's in ranks of jounin and hokage.
But that is compared with the others on the moment.
The simple fact that Konoha was so devestated by the war -- in which the comparatively tiny Sound village and a Sand village task force put a beating on the giant military force should say something.
If Konoha had the advantage in both numbers and quality per ninja, then the invasion wouldn't have gotten as far as it did.
s-class uchiha
2006-02-27, 17:04
Weren't most ppl thinking that "hokage lvl" - taken at face value- means stronger than your average jounin so you could be a kage.
Technically speaking, yes there isn't such a thing as a "hokage lvl" but you know what ppl mean ie that they are somewhere around the sannin and 1-4 hokage lvls. It's like saying is he smart enough to be a Professor? Technically you don't need any degrees to be prof. heck Harvard could pick a bum off the street and give him tenure, but we assume that if you are prof. you have the intellect and exp to handle the job. The same w/ hokage.
C'mon now to say that this is purely and arguement for the "ho" kage (konoha only) is taken it a little too far and a topic for another thread. Besides you don't really know how strong the other kages are they could be weaker than Sandaime (no shame in that) but still be hokage lvl.
You know that this thread was just about if Yamato is as strong as some other hokage and potential hokage candidates.
Back on topic. It seems as if Yamato is aiight. If Konoha lost lots of its powerful ppl (sannin, kakashi, gai) I could see them pickin Yamato as their kage. Not the best choice in the world but suitable.
Listen, it's very simple. For ease of discussion, it's helpful to have general descriptions of various power levels. Genin, Chuunin and Jounin are effective up to a certain point, but Jounin is not a suitable description for the most powerful ninjas. You can't put someone like Kurenai on the same tier as Sarutobi. To say that someone is Jounin level implies they're within the ballpark of an average Jounin, like Kurenai or Asuma. "Elite Jounin" is sometimes used to describe Kakashi and Gai. Kage is a rank that is on some level based on strength, just like the rest of them, and so it's only natural to use it as the final tier. Sannin level is a slightly more definitive term; it refers to those who are close in power to the Sannin, simple as that. These phrases are only used for the convenience of us readers, they don't have any official weight within the manga.
I define Kage level as someone who is comparable in strength to actual Kages. The people I would put on this level are Gaara and Tsunade(by definition), Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Chiyo, Kakashi & Gai(by a small margin), 4-Tailed Naruto, and all Akatsuki members.
naruto123
2006-02-27, 18:28
Listen, it's very simple. For ease of discussion, it's helpful to have general descriptions of various power levels. Genin, Chuunin and Jounin are effective up to a certain point, but Jounin is not a suitable description for the most powerful ninjas. You can't put someone like Kurenai on the same tier as Sarutobi. To say that someone is Jounin level implies they're within the ballpark of an average Jounin, like Kurenai or Asuma. "Elite Jounin" is sometimes used to describe Kakashi and Gai. Kage is a rank that is on some level based on strength, just like the rest of them, and so it's only natural to use it as the final tier. Sannin level is a slightly more definitive term; it refers to those who are close in power to the Sannin, simple as that. These phrases are only used for the convenience of us readers, they don't have any official weight within the manga.
I define Kage level as someone who is comparable in strength to actual Kages. The people I would put on this level are Gaara and Tsunade(by definition), Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Chiyo, Kakashi & Gai(by a small margin), 4-Tailed Naruto, and all Akatsuki members.
You for got one level... academy student.
Anyway you make a good point Zek thanks for clearing that up.:D
Yellow Flash
2006-02-27, 18:40
Yeah, I agree with Zek.
Mr. Johnny 5
2006-02-27, 19:32
Well i just ment that like 10 teams of Konoha, Sand, Mist, Rain etc. etc. were in the forest of death.
Atleast 4 teams of Konoha passed...that is quite a reputation...Gaara, Temari & Kankuro were definetly NOT the only guys from the sand..though only they came through. 1 Skilled Oro Team..along with a jounin lvl ninja Kabuto.. (cheaters)..
Also these Konoha Jounin-sensei's (Asuma, Gai, Kurenai, Guy with Glasses, Kakashi) took care of jounins, chuunins like they were absolutly nothing.
Gai & Kakashi even made a game of it. The Hyuuga Leader took out quite some..fathers of the genins (Shika's, Kiba's, Shino's, Choij's, Ino's ) also took out alot all by themselves... and they look retired for quite some time.
And yes as raikage mentioned...i believe they were heavily outnumbered.
ANBU took care of alot...probably and almost certain would Konoha fail if it werent for Jiraiya's help... It would be a total victory if Naruto would stay and sleep till the next morning.
That's why my thought...Konoha has the best shinobi in all rankings..
Certainly other Villages has strong individuals but they are either in numbers of 1-2 or are within Akatsuki.
More teams from Konoha passed but that's rather normal as this exam took place in Konoha and had way more participants from Konoha to begin with.
I think you may have missunderstood raikage's post, the forces the Sand could bring to attack Konoha was very limited to avoid them being found out by Anbu.
Only 100 Ninjas from the Sand were there and an unknown amount of Sound ninja who couldn't be many more and should be even less as they had to hide as well (even more as they were known ennemy) and because their village isn't as strong as the Sand.
The main point of this operation was to bring out Shukaku inside Konoha which would have meant massive destruction but this failled due to Gaara's unstability.
Despite that, this attack destroyed 50% of the force of Konoha. This war was a serious matter, the Kakashi & Gai's game was an anime filler to downtone the slaughter. In the manga they were dead serious, only 5 Jounins from Konoha survived the fight into the arena.
Ero-Senn1n
2006-02-28, 02:38
Genin, Chuunin, etc. are only ranks. it's useless to compare ranks. We are comparing groups of people who are on a certain rank based on their average power level. The problem with estimating average kage level is that there are 5 countries and we don't know anything about the other 3. So basicly the comparison is between kazekage and hokage level.
A universal comparison can be made only based on the average power of countries: it's a fact that Konoha was the strongest country if I remember correctly. Also we see that contrary to our world in the Narutoverse the role of a kage in actual fights is much higher. Therefore we can safely assume that the average hokage is stronger than the average kage.
There are also speeches of various characters in Naruto about power levels but we know that these cannot be trusted, the Naruto characters tend to either lie or simply tell wrong things because of ignorance. And that's the source of so many debates here ( like Itachi and Kisame's speech about Jiraiye before and after their encounter).
More teams from Konoha passed but that's rather normal as this exam took place in Konoha and had way more participants from Konoha to begin with.
I think you may have missunderstood raikage's post, the forces the Sand could bring to attack Konoha was very limited to avoid them being found out by Anbu.
Only 100 Ninjas from the Sand were there and an unknown amount of Sound ninja who couldn't be many more and should be even less as they had to hide as well (even more as they were known ennemy) and because their village isn't as strong as the Sand.
The main point of this operation was to bring out Shukaku inside Konoha which would have meant massive destruction but this failled due to Gaara's unstability.
Despite that, this attack destroyed 50% of the force of Konoha. This war was a serious matter, the Kakashi & Gai's game was an anime filler to downtone the slaughter. In the manga they were dead serious, only 5 Jounins from Konoha survived the fight into the arena.
Where are such precise numbers mentioned ( like 100, 50%) ?
And for Konoha it seemed that lots of Konoha forces were out of town on their mission. For example the ANBU girl with long hair has returned in the middle of the battle. I would add to the fact of Gaara's instability that it was Sasuke who wounded him, something that never happened to Gaara before according to his flashbacks. So if we look at that situation we can say that Sasuke saved the leaf village from Shukaku like Yondaime saved it from Kyuubi :D Well maybe this is an overstatement but we might add it to Sasuke's positive doings list before he went to Oro :)
Listen, it's very simple. For ease of discussion, it's helpful to have general descriptions of various power levels. Genin, Chuunin and Jounin are effective up to a certain point, but Jounin is not a suitable description for the most powerful ninjas. You can't put someone like Kurenai on the same tier as Sarutobi. To say that someone is Jounin level implies they're within the ballpark of an average Jounin, like Kurenai or Asuma. "Elite Jounin" is sometimes used to describe Kakashi and Gai. Kage is a rank that is on some level based on strength, just like the rest of them, and so it's only natural to use it as the final tier. Sannin level is a slightly more definitive term; it refers to those who are close in power to the Sannin, simple as that. These phrases are only used for the convenience of us readers, they don't have any official weight within the manga.
I define Kage level as someone who is comparable in strength to actual Kages. The people I would put on this level are Gaara and Tsunade(by definition), Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Chiyo, Kakashi & Gai(by a small margin), 4-Tailed Naruto, and all Akatsuki members.
I completely understand that.... but, not all Kage are at the same level of power. Some Kage are more like elite Jounin or even slightly below. Hell, I'm sure neither Gai nor Kakashi would be taken down by any Genin.
Kage level cannot describe a level greater than elite Jounin if some elite Jounin are more power than some Kage.
Kakashi beeing kage lv is ridiculous. Kage is the top strongest ninja in a village. You need to be top in skills. Skills are not 1000 jutsus cuz All sannins knew more jutsus then Yondaime. While Yondaime was only known as the Yellow flash.
Plus you need to have top staminna. Meaning you need to be strong enough to protect the whole village and keep on fighting even when the others are down. A good example are Saru and Yondaime plus Shodai and Nidaime who praticly won wars by themselves. Kage is not only about power but is also about knowledge. You need to be the smartest, wisest person in a village and not having a reputation of a lazy person. Yondaime was the smartest, so were Saru and the previous Hokages. I think the same gos for the other villages and thats the reason why Kages respect each other so deeply.
Kakashi beeing kage lv is ridiculous.
Did you read the thread's title^^
Where are such precise numbers mentioned ( like 100, 50%) ?
And for Konoha it seemed that lots of Konoha forces were out of town on their mission. For example the ANBU girl with long hair has returned in the middle of the battle. I would add to the fact of Gaara's instability that it was Sasuke who wounded him, something that never happened to Gaara before according to his flashbacks. So if we look at that situation we can say that Sasuke saved the leaf village from Shukaku like Yondaime saved it from Kyuubi :D Well maybe this is an overstatement but we might add it to Sasuke's positive doings list before he went to Oro :)
You are correct in that no specific numbers are mentioned. However, take these into account:
- The Leaf knew Orochimaru was within their borders (Anko found him during the Forest of Death section and reported it to the Sandaime Hokage)
- The entirety of the Sound village was reported to be very new and small.
- The Sand village, by their own admission, could not send very many forces, as they did not want to tip off the Leaf to their involvement.
So, we have a (relatively) small Sand/Sound force attacking Konoha, relying heavily on a surprise tactic they didn't even really have anymore.
If, in general, the average Leaf ninja > average Sand/Sound/etc. ninja, then given the setup of the battle (home turf, numbers advantage) Konoha should not have suffered the kinds of losses they did. :cool:
Raikage, If I’m not mistaken Baki mentioned that the Sand Country sent 100 Shinoby to war with Konoha, I don't have the Chapter, But I was reading this arc a week ago, And I’m certain that the number "100 Shinoby’s" was said by someone.
You are correct in that no specific numbers are mentioned. However, take these into account:
Raikage, raikage... Did you ever see one of my post where I would have invented out of nowhere precise information like that? http://kaosounet.free.fr/gif/biggrin.gif
It was said just at the beginning of the battle when the action was focusing on Ibiki Morino that 100 ninja from the Sand had invaded the village and it was stated after the Tsunade arc by Iruka that Konoha lost half of its power during this war.
It was said just at the beginning of the battle when the action was focusing on Ibiki Morino that 100 ninja from the Sand had invaded the village and it was stated after the Tsunade arc by Iruka that Konoha lost half of its power during this war.I knew that someone that looks like Baki was involved in the sentence…:p
But it was Ibiki himself that said this, Or the Shinoby who was giving a briefing to Him?
By the ninja briefing Ibiki.
And you're not very nice with Baki's face :P
Hell no I mean he's strong and has some great jutsus but he is nowhere near the lvl of Shodai-sama.
Rock_Lee Lotus Champ
2006-03-08, 13:10
Ok this is a real noobie question but who his sai yamato kish and i think the kyuubi is the nine taisl but i forgot are u guys getting this info from manga or the episodes because i have no idea who the chars i atated are and who his danzou?
Rock_Lee Lotus Champ
2006-03-08, 13:10
Ok this is a real noobie question but who his sai yamato kish and i think the kyuubi is the nine taisl but i forgot are u guys getting this info from manga or the episodes because i have no idea who the chars i atated are and who his danzou?
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