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Yellow Flash
2006-03-11, 07:46
This is an essay by a student of mine. He still has a lot to learn about Yondaime.
But at least he knows the basic facts, which isn't the case with other certain people *cough*.



Yondaime was a genius:

When Yondaime fought kyuubi he was ten times stronger than the gaiden because he was a genius, even if some people say he is the same as naruto, a hard worker, I’m lead to believe by jiraiya words that he really was a genius, and not only that, how can someone who create jutsus like shiki fujin razengan and harashin not be a genius, these jutsus are better than some jutsus that oro has, and oro is a genius, we are lead to believe yondi was a genius because he created such powerfull jutsus when he was relatively young, oro created edo tensei, but he needed a lot of time, he was much older than yondaime, and still yondaime created better jutsus in less time.
Now, can you really doubt yondi was a genius?

When yondaime died he was in a superior level, a level even sandaime prime did not reach, yondaime would have become the strongest ever if he lived more time, and he created unbelievable jutsus, such as Shiki fujin, where you summon the death god, he defeated kyuubi, which is the strongest being in naruto universe, kyuubi had infinite chakra.
Aren’t suppose to be the old guys to teach techniques to the young generation?
But the god of shinobi learned shiki fujin from yondaime, jiraiya learned razengan, this means yondaime was smart enough, and was too advanced for his time; he was a mature man capable of doing something that only wise old experienced ninjas could do, at such young age he was already the teacher of the god of shinobis, he surpassed his master (jiraiya) fast.

Fighting kyuubi:

Now go see the mini kyuubi vs oro fight, oro would had lose that fight, and still kyuubi had the huge handicap to fight in some kid body, he had only 4 of his 9 tales, you can imagine how strong was full power kyuubi, and that imagination leads me to believe oro wouldn’t hold longer in a fight against full kyuubi, still yondaime managed to stop the strongest yuma ever with one of the best jutsus ever, invented by him, you can say he lose, or you can say he won but there is one thing certain, no one could have done what he did in the right moment, yondaime was the only one, and why? Because he had already surpassed any ninja by that time, jiraiya said he had the potential to become invincible.


Comparing Oro to yondaime

Even with the sharingan oro would always be inferior to yondaime, Yondaime was the top, he could kill any ninja in seconds with his harashin, even with the sharingan oro would still lose, most of yondaime moves aren’t possible to copy, summons, razengan, harashin, and god knows what more, he must had better jutsus compared with jiraiya, if jiraiya is already almost as strong as oro and jiraiya admitted yondaime was superior to him you can imagine yondaime wouldn’t have problems with the likes of the sannin.
Now, oro can do edo tensei, one of the best jutsus in my opinion, but the only thing yondaime needs to do is kill oro, he can very well prevent the summons and focus only on oro, and what matters if manda is stronger than gama, I believe yondaime wouldn’t need to summon gama to deal with manda. Because kyuubi>manda.
Yondaime was chose to the hokage position when oro was still in the village, that means yondaime was already stronger then oro by that time, like the name suggests, the hokage is the number one ninja in the village, yes, maybe oro ideals were not perfect to be hokake, but still there was more ninjas in the village, there was itachi, there was others, but yondaime was the elected.


His level in the gaiden

Now, go see the kakashi gaiden, there we can see yondaime was already strong pre kyuubi incident, he killed 50 rock jounnins like nothing, too easy for him, and almost at the same time he saved kakashi, the same kakashi that is now one of the most respected ninjas In the world, thanks to yondi, what yondaime did was impressive, I don’t remember of seeing someone doing something as impressive as that. Maybe itachi when he killed his clan, but we don’t know for sure what happened in that night so…

In the gaiden Kakashi was a jouning already, still he was no match to the rock kage bushin dude, he would have died if yondaime wasn’t there, the fact is, kakashi was already a jouning and he was a genius, but he couldn’t do anything in that battle, but for yondaime killing that man was a piece of cake, so yondaime>>>>>>>at least 10 top jounings, maybe 10 kakashis after time skip, that’s what many people can conclude from the gaiden, yondaime level is so different from all the others ninjas in the gaiden,.

When yondaime reached the bridge, there were only 4 konoha ninjas alive, all the rest had bean defeated, they were all death, killed by the 50 rock ninjas, which indicates rock ninjas at that time>konoha jounins. But in the end, yondaime needed only 1 second to finish with all 50 rock jounins, something absolutely unbelievable, and it’s so unbelievable that it seems many people don’t give this moment the importance disserved.


I ask again, who could have done that? In that situation, time was necessary to save kakashi, you can say jiraiya oro or itachi with his mangenkyo could have defeated those 50 jounins (I don’t believe), but still kakashi would have died in the end, cause jiraiya oro and itachi would take more time to kill then all.

He was the fastest, no doubt about that, he was faster than gai, it doesn’t matter if his speed doesn’t come from his body like gai, it comes from harashin, but he can move faster than gai with that jutsu, in the end he moves faster than gai, he can just teleport to any place. While oro fighting mini kyuubi had to summon rachomon to stop the black orb yondaime just needs to teleport to mini kyuubi backs.

Yondaime was a chakra freak

Itachi is strong, yes he is, but he has a weak point, he has low stamina and low chakra compared with jiraiya, oro or mini kyuubi (for example) and finally compared with yondaime, yondaime pulled out kyuubi soul, the soul of a monster with infinite chakra, so yondaime had a huge amount of chakra, something that puts him in a hole different level, it’s the chakra that allows you to do huge and destructive jutsus, a big advantage, yondaime chakra was probably bigger than mini kyuubi, itachi is still young, he is a genius and he can get better and better with time, but yondaime was a genius too, imagine a genius with such chakra, with jutsus like shiki fujin, he could combine 10 kage bushins with shiki fujin and kill all the akatsuki. Itachi is the second strongest in akastuki, but there is so much difference between itachi and yondaime, and that gives me no doubts he can put a good fight with all the akatsuki at the same time.
The prove yondaime had a huge amount of chakra is in the gaiden too, I bet you need a lot of chakra to do harashin, but he used that move a lot and was still not tired, and the final prove is: he pulled out the soul of the strongest yuma with infinite chakra, even sandaime couldn’t pull the soul of oro (weaker than yondaime), a mere human compared with kyuubi, how can you pull the soul of something with infinite chakra? You need to be the best and almost at the beast level, and don’t forget that in the legends Kyuubi never was defeated before, even against others yumas he always won, but he was defeated by a human.

Why would kishi put yondaime in the cover of the chapter 238? The chapter where naruto set off with jiraiya to train? And that cover said he had unparalleled strength, if kishi says he was unparalleled, then he really was, just like we must believe that itachi>oro, because kishi says so, but kishi is saying unparalleled, that means yondaime was really the strongest, no one could equal him.
And when naruto sets of he looks to the yondaime statue, closing the hand, like saying, some day I will be like you, something that only I can achieved since I’m the main character of the show.


Naruto goal is to be like yondaime, not better.
Anko said the only one that could have stopped oro during the konoha invasion was yondaime because there was only one man that could have defeated oro without many difficulties injuries and deaths, not because they were both at the same level, but because their level was too different, Anko always thought of sandaime as a great shinobi, she respected him, still she knew yondaime was the most indicated and not sandaime, when you are in trouble, you tend to remember of the people who can resolve things the most easily way, yondaime wouldn’t had any problem to deal with oro, not because oro was weak (he is one of the strongest ninja alive, yondi is already death) but because yondaime was too good. Jiraiya who is almost at oro level wasn’t referred by Anko. Naruto goal is to reach yondaime level.


Its clear naruto will become hokage and the strongest character in the end, but that will take time, and he will face many problems, it will be a difficult path, he will fight a lot and surpass many death situation, naruto objective is to become hokage, but in the end his objective is to become as strong and respected as yondaime, his goal is to be like yondaime, and that can only be achieved in the end of the series, there is a large possibility that naruto only becomes hokage in the end.



Now, before coming here saying yondaime sucks, just answer this questions:

Who else could have stopped kyuubi? Oro couldn’t because he was clearly inferior to mini kyuubi recently.

Who could have saved kakashi in the gaiden?
No one could have, there was no one capable of moving as fast as yondaime, what yondaime did was accomplish his mission and at the same time saving his student.

Who could have taught to sandaime and jiraiya moves at such young age?
Oro needed a lot of time to create edo tensei (S-rank move just like Shiki fujin), when he had yondi age he did not had the knowledge sufficient. And itachi can’t teach sharingan techniques to people who doesn’t have sharingan, and since the major jutsus of itachi are sharingan based…

Who could have defeated sandaime in the roof (oro biggest accomplished)?
Yondaime, itachi, jiraiya…

Who else could have killed all the uchiha clan?
Yodaime could have harashin all the place and kill all the uchihas, not too difficult when you see what he did in the gaiden to those rock ninjas.


I just want people to remember that Yondaime was not at his best in the gaiden, when he fought kyuubi he was stronger and had more experience.
Yondaime is the strongest ever, he is the max any ninja can reach, for a ninja its impossible to defeat a infinite chakra monster.
Kishi created yondaime with the purpose of putting limits of what one ninja can reach, yondaime is the top, to kishi yondaime is the strongest.

FireDetei
2006-03-11, 08:04
I don't think you could ever put "limits" on abilities. People will always be able to surpass those before them, Buts in the case of the 4th, it will be a long time till someone comes close to his abilites....but someone will....one day

Sazelyt
2006-03-11, 10:44
Yondaime had only around 1 year to live after the Gaiden. In Naruto-world, without external help (demon), it is highly unlikely to improve a few times during that small time period, especially for a person that was already strong.

Rurik
2006-03-11, 11:01
I pity the student of yours, those facts posted are more a exaggerations of the facts, as not how things are.

I agree with Saze, In only one year, the Improvement for someone as strong as Yondaime should not be that big, in fact he could have been as strong as he was in the gaidin by the moment he sealed Kyuby.

Also regarding Edo tensei, it was never implioed that if Oro is killed then the Zombies die also, I think they do not die even if Oro is killed.

Also, The Shiki foujin doesn't require aditional Chakra in order to extract being wit a larger Chakra pool, as Sandaime wit almost no Chakra could Seal 2 Kages, and oro was not seal because his almost death like state.

I can go on and on, with pointers that are contradiction, but I won't bother.

FireDetei
2006-03-11, 11:46
I think your student also missed the fact that the 3rd had a sword through him whilst trying to pull out Oro's Soul. Ever tried to pull out a soul with a sword through u? I can tell u from 1st hand exp its no easy task :P

UberDork
2006-03-11, 12:29
the Fourth isn't that strong in the manga we read how he was beaten by the father of kakashi

Yellow Flash
2006-03-11, 12:48
The Fourth isn't that strong in the manga we read how he was beaten by the father of kakashi

Sakumo is strong, yeah, but Yondaime was better.

s-class uchiha
2006-03-11, 14:04
the Fourth isn't that strong in the manga we read how he was beaten by the father of kakashi


what?? where ?? I missed that!

freetgy
2006-03-11, 14:45
the Fourth isn't that strong in the manga we read how he was beaten by the father of kakashi

where u get this from?? chapter reference plz


The Essay exegerates to much for my taste also it repeats the same over and over again.

But i agree with him Yondaime beeing strongest we have seen so far.

itachistyle
2006-03-11, 16:55
Itachi is strong, yes he is, but he has a weak point, he has low stamina and low chakra compared with jiraiya, oro or mini kyuubi (for example) .

how could you know that??
we shouldn t forget that before he said he needed to rest, Itachi had the sharingan activated the whole day and he also used tsukiyomi twice and amaterasu once ,not to mention he also used an explosive bunshin which divided by 2 his chakra ressource

perhaps that techniques like tsukiyomi or amaterasu required a LOT more chakra than summoning Manda or doing the God of death's justu by example,who knows??

Uchiha-kaze
2006-03-11, 18:51
The fourth is one of the strongest if not the strongest ninja in the naruto universe. Even Oro couldn't handle 4 tail mini kyuubi in his current state and that says something.

Rachy
2006-03-11, 19:20
where u get this from?? chapter reference plz

what?? where ?? I missed that!

It never happened >_<.

Soma
2006-03-12, 02:44
I think that Yondaime and Itachi are Naruto and Sasuke's final goal. Therefore, I think Yondaime, the Akatsuki leader, Itachi, and Sandaime are the strongest ninjas who ever lived, and are on a totally different plane than everyone else. But Yondaime and Itachi particularly so because Naruto and Sasuke are trying to surpass them. Personally, I think that Yondaime and Itachi are close to each other in strength and that their potential (if they were to ever reach it) surpasses everyone who ever lived besides that of Naruto and Sasuke.

I think both Yondaime and Itachi represent the perfect ninja. Yondaime is the perfect good ninja and Itachi is the perfect bad ninja. None of them really have that many flaws shown, unlike the others, and they are two sides of the same coin.

s-class uchiha
2006-03-12, 02:47
The fourth is one of the strongest if not the strongest ninja in the naruto universe. Even Oro couldn't handle 4 tail mini kyuubi in his current state and that says something.

But from all indications Yondaime didn't "fist-fight" w/ Kyuubi.

The villagers were trying to hold kyuubi off until Yondaime came, remember from the flashback?

All yondaime did was figure out a way to seal the kyuubi. He did not actively fight the kyuubi repeat he did not actively fight the kyuubi.

He stood on top of Gama and figured out a way to seal him, which very very impressive in itself don't get me wrong, but its not like he beat him down and then all of sudden sealed him .

ctown
2006-03-12, 03:00
with that said............Yondi is DEAD and Oro is not:D

Rachy
2006-03-12, 03:04
Yondi is DEAD and Oro is not

Prove it -_-, and orochimaru is dead ............... inside =).

Yellow Flash
2006-03-12, 08:20
The most important thing to understand is that Yondaime was stronger than the Sannin.
Anything else is up to speculation about his true power.
The recent manga has clearly shown that Yondaime would kill Orochi effortlessly.
Didn't you see how much trouble Oro had to put Naruto in his place?
Don't forget that Naruto is nothing but Yondaime's creation, his wimpy dog.
Yondaime had a fight with the real Kyuubi, who is 1000 times stronger than KN.

ri0
2006-03-12, 08:56
After your logic Orochimaru should be better than Yondaime because Oro's "creation" stopped Yondaime's "creation".

Yellow Flash
2006-03-12, 08:57
After your logic Orochimaru should be better than Yondaime because Oro's "creation" stopped Yondaime's "creation".

Naruto was holding back [1 Tail].

ri0
2006-03-12, 08:59
Naruto was in 4 tails mode and I'm talking about Yamato because Sasuke wasn't created by Orochimaru^^

Yellow Flash
2006-03-12, 09:01
Naruto was in 4 tails mode and I'm talking about Yamato because Sasuke wasn't created by Orochimaru^^

Ah, sorry. I thought you meant Sasuke's CS (done by Orochimaru).

As for Yamato...he isn't Orochimaru's creation. He is Shodai's creation.

ri0
2006-03-12, 09:05
He is Orochimaru's creation done with Shodai's genetic material.

Yellow Flash
2006-03-12, 09:06
He is Orochimaru's creation done with Shodai's genetic material.

This is correct. But Orochi can't get credit for Shodai's ability to control youma.

ri0
2006-03-12, 09:14
Why not? He did experiments for years to accomplish this goal so why don't you give him any credit?

UberDork
2006-03-12, 09:35
In the Kakashi Saga it was Told how the Father of Kakaski used a Demon Shark to defeat the 4th and after that the 4th started to develop new jutsu's to counter the Demon fighters

freetgy
2006-03-13, 02:07
In the Kakashi Saga it was Told how the Father of Kakaski used a Demon Shark to defeat the 4th and after that the 4th started to develop new jutsu's to counter the Demon fighters

Chapter/Page Reference!!!

s-class uchiha
2006-03-13, 03:42
In the Kakashi Saga it was Told how the Father of Kakaski used a Demon Shark to defeat the 4th and after that the 4th started to develop new jutsu's to counter the Demon fighters


Okay buddy let's calm down about this now...

this did not happen.

Sinaura
2006-03-14, 21:26
In the Kakashi Saga it was Told how the Father of Kakaski used a Demon Shark to defeat the 4th and after that the 4th started to develop new jutsu's to counter the Demon fighters

WTF? Stop making things up.

Yellow Flash
2006-03-15, 02:22
In the Kakashi Saga it was Told how the Father of Kakaski used a Demon Shark to defeat the 4th and after that the 4th started to develop new jutsu's to counter the Demon fighters

Yondaime is stronger than Sakumo.

Hunter
2006-03-15, 13:18
This is correct. But Orochi can't get credit for Shodai's ability to control youma.
Why not?
Yondaime can't get credit for the chakra of the Kyubi either, or Chiyo for Shukaku's power.
By your own logic I guess that Chiyo was almost as strong as Yondaime given that her creation only lost by a hair to Naruto and that Yamato is stonger than both of them combined!

Yellow Flash
2006-03-16, 11:41
Why not?
Yondaime can't get credit for the chakra of the Kyubi either, or Chiyo for Shukaku's power.
By your own logic I guess that Chiyo was almost as strong as Yondaime given that her creation only lost by a hair to Naruto and that Yamato is stonger than both of them combined!

Yondaime defeated Kyuubi and put him in his place.
So, Yondaime is Kyuubi's master.
But Orochimaru merely sneaked to Shodai' grave to experiment.
There is no reason at all to give Oro credit for Shodai's jutsu, only for his ability to revive them.

As for Chiyo, I agree she is one of the strongest next to Yondaime.
But this is because she knew high level sealing jutsu.

Hunter
2006-03-16, 12:16
Just as Yondaime could do that because he knew the higher level sealing jutsu showed at this point of the story.
Just as Orochimaru could do that because he has the abilities and the knowledge to mix dna into other beings.

These 3 inserted powers which weren't their own into people. The power of the Kyubi isn't Yondaime's neither Shukaku's power is Chiyo's nor Shodai's for Oro.
They were just able to place these power into a container, that's it.

Yellow Flash
2006-03-16, 12:27
I agree. But Sealing jutsu is an indication of strength.