Gunslinger Girl discussion

[SKoRPioN9x]

I just watched episode 3 today (was waiting for ANBU's release). I thought it was a good episode. Glad it wasn't another recap of the first two episodes :heh: . I thought the end was interesting. It kind of reminded me of an episode of Outlaw Star I saw a long time ago: I think this is what happened: One of the characters from the protagonist's ship met a girl and became good friends. Then they had to depart, but decided to meet again later. It turned out that the girl was the enemy, and they ended up destroying her ship and killing her. He went to wait for her at the end and she never showed up. I never watched OS much, but I liked that episode. I like sad anime - i don't know why. I still have yet to see Grave of the Fireflies. I'll have to pick it up some day.
Anyway, since the old forum is gone and the old GSG threads were lost, here's a new one to discuss the series :).

[Lina]

I liked episode 3.. I hope we don't get any more recaps like 2. The way the blonde girl handled her mission at the end took me by surprise.. but only a little.. since I've seen this in an episode of Noir before.

[koki_2706]

Sorry, does anybody know which are the guns that are used by the girls?
Too sad to say, I only know that Henrietta is using a P90 submachine gun...

[K_R]

The seichi release has the gun info... But since you're unlikely to get our version, I'll post the info here. Gun info is only provided for weapons that have been fired. This is the info as they appear in the pre-episode notes.

Henrietta:
Fabrique Nationale P90
Caliber: 5.7x28mm SS190
Operation: Blowback, closed breech; select fire
Magazine Capacity: 50 rounds
Weight: 3 kg (6.6 lbs)
Overall length : 500mm (19.7")
Barrel length: 263 mm (10.3")
Rate of fire: 900 RPM (max)
Effective range: 200 meters

The FN P90 was designed in the 1980s around a NATO research
contract for a weapon system with a compact design and body
armour penetration capabilities.

The P90 was initially intended as a compact weapon for army
personnel whose duties do not require the use of assault rifles - tank crews, artillery crews, etc.
But due to its
compact design, high accuracy and high armour penetration,
it has become popular amongst special operations units and law
enforcement agencies around the World.

Its advantages over its counterparts include:
Completely ambidextrous,
Downward ejection system (empty casing cannot interfere with the user),
The SS190 ammuntion...


5.7x28mm SS190

Bullet Type: FMJ - Standard Ball
Length: 40.5 mm (1.59")
Cartridge Weight: 6g (93 gr.)
Weight of Projectile: 2.02g (31 gr.)
Muzzle Velocity: 715 m/s (2,346 fps)

The 5.7x28mm SS190 ammunition has been designed to bridge the gap between the 9mm ammunition and the 5.56 x 45mm. The 9mm FMJ round will not penetrate modern body armor and the 5.56mm (.223 Rem.) rifle ammunition creates over-penetration concerns in a close combat situation or urban warfare.

The SS190 has unique design, utilizing two metal inserts. The tip of the ogive has a steel penetrator followed by an aluminum core that is heavier than the forward tip. This causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue after 2 inches of penetration. This design virtually eliminates the risk of over penetration. This also creates a large wound cavity and quick incapacitation.

The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters when fired from the P90. The 5.7 ammunition has only 60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm. The muzzle velocity of the SS190 is 2,346fps when fired from the P90.

--

Rico:

Israel Military Industries Galil MAR
Caliber: 5.56 x 45mm M855, SS109
Operation: Gas operated, rotating bolt; select fire
Magazine Capacity: 35 rounds
Weight: 2.98 kg (6.6 lbs)
Overall length : 710mm (28")
Barrel length: 195mm (7.7")
Rate of fire: 700 RPM (max)
Effective range: 300 meters

The IMI Galil Micro Assault Rifle is the newest and smallest
member of the Galil family. It was introduced in the early
1990s with the same NATO design objectives as the FN P90;
a compact weapon with body armour penetration capabilities.

The Galil MAR never saw the expected mass adoption into the
Israeli Defense Force due to a design flaw in the handguards -
during full-auto and rapid semi-auto firing, the handguards would
heat up to the point that it became impossible to hold the weapon.

In 200 a revised Galil MAR was introduced. The major changes are:
improved heat-absorbing handguards and new light-weight fiber
stock. Optional extra is a M1913 rail on the receiver - on which
Rico's MAR has the Trijicon ACOG Reflex sight attached.


Ceská Zbrojovka Models 75
Caliber: 9x19mm Parabellum
Operation: Tilting barrel, locked breech; semi-automatic
Trigger Mechanism: Double action or single action
Magazine Capacity: 16 rounds, double stacked
Weight: 1.0 kg (2.2 lbs)
Overall length : 206mm (8.1")
Barrel length: 120mm (4.7")

First produced in 1975, the CZ75 is a Czechoslovakian designed handgun that can be carried cocked-and-locked. "Cocked-and-locked" refers to having a round chambered with the hammer cocked, and the safety on. This carry method allows the gun to be brought into action quickly and smoothly.

The CZ75 is chambered for the 9mm Luger/Parabellum (9mmL) cartridge which was unusual because the 9mm is a NATO cartridge, and NATO was considered to be the enemy of Czechoslovakia which was under the Warsaw Pact at the time. It is surmised that the CZ75 was used by special agents who were trained to work behind enemy lines, and thus it was fitting to have a gun that would use enemy ammunition instead of domestic cartridges.

Ironically, the CZ75 is a much better gun than the one that was issued to the Czechoslovakian army.


Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova
(Sniper Rifle Dragunov)
Caliber: Russian 7.62x54mm Rimmed
Operation: Gas operated, short stroke, rotating bolt; semi-automatic
Capacity: 10 rounds
Weight: 4.31kg (9.5lbs)
Overall Length: 1225mm (48.2")
Barrel Length: 620mm (24.4")
Rate of Fire: 30 RPM (max)
Scope Type: PSO-1

Designed by Yevgeniy Feodorovich Dragunov between 1958 and
1962, the SVD was the first Russian rifle exclusively designed
from scratch as a sniper rifle, to replace the SVT-40 sniper rifle.

Its maximum effective range is 1300m with the PSO-1 or 800m
without it. The PSO-1 optical sight has a 6-degree field of view.
It contains an integral infrared detection aid and an illuminated
rangefinder recticle. Thus, the SVD is effective in daylight against
point targets or at night against active infrared emitters.

The SVD can fire light ball, heavy ball, steel core, tracer and
anti-tank incendiary ammunition.

--

Triela:

Heckler & Koch G3A3
Caliber: 7.62 x 51mm NATO
Operation: Roller-locked delayed blowback; select fire
Magazine Capacity: 20 rounds
Weight: 4.4 kg (9.7 lbs)
Overall length : 1025mm (40.3")
Barrel length: 450mm (17.3")
Rate of fire: 550 RPM (max)
Effective range: 600 meters

The G3 is the standard rifle of the Deutsche Bundeswehr (German Army). It is the weapon that put the fledgling HK on the map - former Mauser engineers worked to come up with a design that would supercede the G1, essentially an FN FAL rifle, since Fabrique Nationale would not license Germany to produce it.

The West German Army adopted the G3 (Gewehr 3) rifle in 1959. As many as 50 nations have since adopted the G3 as their standard infantry arm. Though now superceded in Germany by the new G36, the G3 will continue to see service worldwide for some time.

Unlike the other G3 variants, which have folding or retractable
stocks, the A3 is equipped with a fixed polymer stock.

All G3s suffer from heaviness and excessive recoil of the 7.62 x 51 cartridge in automatic fire.

-----

[Shii]

Actually, K_R, I held out for Seichi's release. :)

[nojevo]

damn, u must have done some detailed reaserch for each weapon. The only one i recognize is the p90 just because i play a bit of cs, but the rest of them never heard of emm.

[koki_2706]

[QUOTE]The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters when fired from the P90.[QUOTE]

Funny, although it says the P90 will penetrate Kevlar from some distance, I noticed that in the anime that it does not seem to do so.

The best example is in the first episode, when the two republic guys are trying to take cover behind an overturned table. Despite Henrietta spraying dozens of rounds from her P90 at the table, no round can be seen penerating the wood.

This example is further supported by the fact that in cs, the P90 cannot shoot through doors, walls or even wooden boxes...

[BME]

Finally GG is going somewhere, this was a great episode. Especially when Rico met the bellboy (very predictable btw) in the hall.

What was I supposed to say in a situation like this? Soukka. Gomen, ne?" *Shots Bellboy*

[kagetsu]

Yea it was. But was anyone else sitting there watching go "shoot him, shoot him!". Maybe its just me but i was lol. And then the end hopefully everyone got the meaning behind it and not just the outcome, thats what blew me away.

[K_R]

Gun realism takes a backseat to artistic license. It wouldn't be as exciting if Henrietta could just shoot people through wooden obstacles.

[Go-lytely]

Maybe that was a steel reinforced sofa? Anyway, it would have been cooler if the bullets went right through the sofa. Further reinforcing the idea of Henrietta as a unstoppable killing machine.

[Shii]

Finally GG is going somewhere, this was a great episode. Especially when Rico met the bellboy (very predictable btw) in the hall.
Only somewhat predictable... and it was very spooky nonetheless. I was waiting for the sound of a gunshot and it never came. Brr.

BTW, Use Spoiler Tags :nono:

[K_R]

Unrelated note, I thought my internet connection had died while I was out yesterday - winny hadn't found a single 04 raw. Checked the website to find that 04 is on next week... I hope it doesn't turn out to be a fortnightly show...

[Anlushac11]

I must be the only one who was saddened by epsiode 03.

spoiler



When she shot the bellhop it was expected. She followed her programming. But what will it do to her mentally? I expect Rico to self destruct or commit suicide. As the Doctor said when he was fixing Henrietta's arm "I can repair the flesh, the mind is a different matter entirely" Although Henrietta has been brainwashed into forgetting about her family and what happened to her nothing is permenant. Eventually she will start having flashbacks into her past memories and when she does she will lose it.

Also for the jobs they are doing Henrietta could have been using subsonic ammo or aluminum rounds. They have good initial penetration and very little penetration of walls and zuch to minimize chance of scattered shots pentrating through walls and such. Also if they were doing a shootout in a building subsonic ammo is much quieter. Law Enforcement and Special Forces have started using subsonic ammo in at least 9mm and I think it has been applied to other calibers as well.

The tumbling rounds cause massive amounts of hydrostatic shock. Even though only one or two rounds may hit they do such massive tissue damage upon impact the body cant deal with it and can shut down.

[koki_2706]

I've just realised that the G3 rifle used by Triela also appears in cs...

[IMSabbel]

The G3 in counterstrike is the sniping variant, it has a slighly longer barrel and a optic scopt.

The G3 is quite a bitch if you fire it on full auto. After the 3rd shot, your aim will be totaly off. (but the recoilwith single fire isnt really that strong. The first time i shot it in the army i was quite surprised how little there was. But it is LOUD.)

btw: most movies/animes ect TOTALY fuck up the penetration power of rifle/pistol rounds.
That scene in episode 1 totally sucked, especially compared to how realistic the rest was...

in my grandfathers company back in ww2, one didnt remove the 9mm bullet of his pistol from the bullet chamber while cleaning (common mistake to forget the check after removing the mag). It penetrated a brick wall and hit another soldier behind it in the leg.

While in the army, they showed us how little "cover" things like cars, doors ect give. They had one old picture from an accident, where a soldier shot his truck with his g3 (yeah, forgot to remove mag while doing the standart guncheck before entering it). The 7.62x52 bullet completely penetrated the engine and hit the ground on the other side of the truck....

[kagetsu]

I wouldn't say alot of movies screw up those kind of scenes with cars though. Cop car doors are built bullet proofed. Look at a car. You'll see a trim going around the whole car up until the front and passenger doors because of this. Also when being fired upon from broadside you would hide behind your front tire so that bullets fired would hit the engine and theres so much metal there the projectile of the bullet would be offcourse if hit over there. And obviously you wouldn't go behind the back tire cause the gas tank is right there.

[Captain K]

I don't have any personal experience with firearms, but from what I understand, movies and television really do screw up the effects of slugs hitting inanimate objects. Most assault rifles fire supersonic ammunition (that's nothing special or sci-fi like "rocket bullets" or anything... it just means the slugs travel faster than the speed of sound) and from what I understand firing one into a metal car frame doesn't just punch a tiny hole--it really tears the thing up. IE, if you unloaded a couple clips with an M16A2 into the side of your average car, you wouldn't just have 60 or so holes in the side of the frame--you'd have a lot of twisted and deformed metal (and definitely anyone sitting in the car would be perforated as well, as the bullets would certainly travel all the way through the car).

Correct me if I'm wrong those with military experiece?

[koki_2706]

I don't think so.
When I was at the range using M16 in the army, the 5.56 mm round only makes a small hole in the fibreglass target, all this from only a distance of 100m.

[Relentless]

Unrelated note, I thought my internet connection had died while I was out yesterday - winny hadn't found a single 04 raw. Checked the website to find that 04 is on next week... I hope it doesn't turn out to be a fortnightly show...

Unrelated note? IMHO it's more on topic than the course this thread is going. I don't want to offend anybody, but while I consider it's very nice the staff has researched their weapons and ballistics, I don't consider it essential. In fact, I hope they invested as much effort in their accurate portrayal of modern fireguns as they should have devoted to plot, characterization and dialogue.

So far I'm not complaining. The action shown is realistic enough for me: guns are not infallible, coordinating your team ias a must, combat is chaotic and unpredictable, and shooting a human being is very messy. But the best is, the series is not focusing on the action, rather it shows the tragic lives those girls have been forced to live; even when in some twisted sense, they might feel grateful. After watching ep. 3, I could only think: "Merciful Lord, what a sad story!"

I was also waiting for ep. 4. this week. If they're going to bi-weekly broadcasting, it'll be a real agony, being my favorite new anime.

BTW, do you think ep. 4 will be based on manga chapter 3? When the website still listed its on-air date as on 5th, the summary mentioned Christmas or Santa Claus.

[Kensuke]

In Noir there was intense firefights in almost every episode, with multiple opponents, so althought there are similarities between these series, GSG clearly focuses more in drama and characters.
I'm not complaining if someone wants to discuss about weapons used in the series, I have also been in army, but if this kind of discussion upsets somebody, maybe we should have separate threads...

I hope coming episodes focus also the other girls. (most likely they will)

Episode 3 was so sad... :sad: to make it so predictable just increased the angst...
But still, I'm waiting atleast one episode where all or almost all girls work as a team.

[Aquillion]

I like how they spend so much time getting every detail on every shade of the guns correct -- then have the girls pile out of a pizza delivery truck carrying violin cases. Gee, that's non-conspicuous. I bet when people hear that there was a murder in the building, nobody will remember the strange pizza delivery truck from a company that doesn't exist driven by a guy with sunglasses and full of people in suits that was waiting outside the building for fifteen minutes to, apparently, let a young girl deliver a violin-shaped pizza. :heh:

[ElvenPath]

Wasn't there news like GSG was licensed?

[Thany]

Unrelated note, I thought my internet connection had died while I was out yesterday - winny hadn't found a single 04 raw. Checked the website to find that 04 is on next week... I hope it doesn't turn out to be a fortnightly show...

Well it seems according to Kanna of The Triad (www.the-triad.org) the EP4 has been reported of one week.

[Sour-Do]

Wasn't there news like GSG was licensed?As far as I know, only the manga has been announced as licensed, by ADV. The first volume is due out on November 18. Here's a link to RightStuf's online store, in case you want to purchase it:

http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/20OauDf5hl5MzU4FeZ/browse/item/60917/4/0/0

I've already put in my pre-order for the manga. And if the anime ever gets licensed (hopefully also by ADV), I'll buy the DVDs too. But I hope there won't be any announcements made until after the last episode is fansubbed. I would hate to have to wait a year to complete this series.

In Noir there was intense firefights in almost every episode, with multiple opponents, so althought there are similarities between these series, GSG clearly focuses more in drama and characters.Funny thing about Noir is that none of the firefights (that I can remember) had any blood. Lots of people got shot and died, but no blood. I'm glad that GSG kept the blood, so I wouldn't be constantly distracted by the lack of it as I was with Noir.

-- Sour-Do
AnimeMuyou!

[Relentless]

Well, I'm not upset, and I do acknowledge that the guns discussion was relevant to GSG, it just started to sound like it was the only remarkable theme. I mean, it's not like we're talking about a "Task Force Blue" or "Rainbow Six" anime (BTW, that would be very cool!)

So far, the anime faithfully adapts the manga, and adds a few scenes of their own which IMO nicely add to the story. OTOH, the manga is bloodier. I'd be happy if they keep adapting the manga. It really focuses on the characters, not the action. And the action there is, it's like we have seen so far (the way I like it): brief and intense.

I have seen little comment on the music. I don't like the ending song a lot, but I really worship "The Light Before We Land". I have not liked an anime song this much since the days of Bana's "Shell" (the indescribably cool Witch Hunter Robin opening). It's so hauntingly beautiful, and I'm amazed at how well it suits the mood of this anime, both lyrics and music. When the words go "If we can hold on we can fix what is wrong, Buy a little time, For this head of me" and we see Henrietta crying, then smiling and the other girls appear, it leaves a very moving, even powerful, impression. Like if there's still a bit of hope for those poor girls forced to live such a bleak life.

--Kensuke
One of the reasons why I got bored with Noir: After I realized the girls had James Bond levels of invulnerability and there was never going to be real consequences to all that violence. It was like the "A-Team", only this time there were deads (but still, no blood).

--Aquillion
That was fun! Maybe Italy, being the pizza's birthplace, has pizzas in all kind of shapes not seen anywhere? But I think only Henrietta hides her gun in a violin case. What is Triela seen using to conceal her rifle, a drafstman's rule case?

--Sour-Do
I also hope we have a chance to see the complete series fansubbed. But with the comments about having foreign financers plus the manga being licensed already plus the delays the broadcasting is taking, my hopes are very, very low...

[aquilus]

This example is further supported by the fact that in cs, the P90 cannot shoot through doors, walls or even wooden boxes...
Please, do not use CS as an example in situations like these.

Gun realism takes a backseat to artistic license. It wouldn't be as exciting if Henrietta could just shoot people through wooden obstacles.

Precisely. And to be honest, at least I don´t really care. ;)

[K_R]

On another note on gun realism is sound suppressed guns, or "silenced guns". I don't think I've ever seen a show where a suppressed gun has been portrayed realistically. They don't make a whoosh sound and nothing else. Especially with Rico's CZ75, you would hear a very audible click from the slide mechanism and the sound would be more of a quieter bang.

Rico also uses a violin case.

Triela's case reminds of the thing you might pack a fishing rod into ;)

As for the anime following the manga, I think episode 2 was just an offshoot to explore henrietta's relationship with jose more and that the rest of show will follow the manga (here's hoping).

With the opening theme, I wouldn't call it anime music, since the song was made before the anime was planned. But the creators did do a fantastic job of finding a very appropriate song for it. Although I think the third stanza, after chorus, would be more appropriate...

Before we let euphoria
Convince us we are free
Remind us how we used to feel
Before when life was real

And to those that have read the manga, do you get the feeling that there might be a GSG season 2 in the future? The manga doesn't "end", it feels like there could be at least one more volume...

[Evan]

To tell the truth,i like this anime very much GS is over cos i like gun action alot,and the story was line was good.every character wasslowly being introduced and i think this 13 ep story will end with the 5 girls together taking on a misssion (may b they all might die in the end?)

[Kensuke]

Well, I'm not upset, and I do acknowledge that the guns discussion was relevant to GSG, it just started to sound like it was the only remarkable theme. I mean, it's not like we're talking about a "Task Force Blue" or "Rainbow Six" anime (BTW, that would be very cool!)

I quess as soon as new episode comes out there will be more discussions about characters and story (that depends greatly what kind of episode next one will be). And remember that all previous discussions were removed.
Heh, Tom Clancy -style anime would be cool, especially if they used all kind of equipment and draw them accurately, attack helicopters, fighter jets and tanks. Like that Hind-gunship in Full Metal Panic! (yeah, yeah, it would be expensive anime).

One of the reasons why I got bored with Noir: After I realized the girls had James Bond levels of invulnerability and there was never going to be real consequences to all that violence. It was like the "A-Team", only this time there were deads (but still, no blood).

I agree, I hate shows were "hero" is invulnerable, but funny thing is that I never thought that when I watched Noir, I really don't know why, maybe that Mireille and Kirika were controlled (Altena was my least favorite character). But total lack of blood annoyed me too.

[Aquillion]

One of the reasons why I got bored with Noir: After I realized the girls had James Bond levels of invulnerability and there was never going to be real consequences to all that violence. It was like the "A-Team", only this time there were deads (but still, no blood).Er, but...
Major Noir spoiler below.

...they die in the last episode. (Offscreen.) I thought the show made that pretty clear. I mean, they were making plans for the future. Anyone who makes idealistic plans for the future in that kind of show dies.

And then there's that scene where Kirika gets shot in the head only in the next scene she's ok and apparently she was only symbolically shot or something. Ok, that was wierd.

[ElvenPath]

If you guys are like looking for gun realism, just go see S.W.A.T :cool:

[Go-lytely]

Er, but...
Major Noir spoiler below.

...they die in the last episode. (Offscreen.) I thought the show made that pretty clear. I mean, they were making plans for the future. Anyone who makes idealistic plans for the future in that kind of show dies.

And then there's that scene where Kirika gets shot in the head only in the next scene she's ok and apparently she was only symbolically shot or something. Ok, that was wierd.

Are you sure they are dead? It was never shown onscreen and they just planned to have tea together when they got back.

I heard a rumor that ADV was in negotiations for a Noir sequel. I hope its not true.

[Relentless]

--Aquillion
But still, no blood :twitch:

--Kensuke
I'm waiting with held breath and cramped gut for the next episode. When I read it was delayed I almost threw my monitor by the window... and it's 21". Guess I'm getting a little obsessed :heh:

The only kind of invulnerable heroes I like are those who have a goofy side, like Super Agent Cobra's namesake, City Hunter's Ryo Saeba and Trigun's Vash.

--K_R
Obviously Hollywood thinks the sound of real shots is not "photogenic" enough. It's like sound in space: realism takes a back seat to artistic license.

Rico has a blocky, squared case in episode 3, like a thick laptop case. Most instruments have a case that is oddly shaped. Why did she take that case with (I guess) her gun when she was just checking the place? Her Dragunov couldn't fit in and it is not the adequate weapon for that kind of mission. Even I know that :heh:

BTW, is everybody sure Triela's gun is a rifle? On the cover of chapter 3 it's clearly a shotgun.

Well, "Buy a little time/For this head of me" could refer to the brainwashing, and I like the "If we can hold on we can fix what is wrong" bit best. Like in the future, Henrietta might have hope of a more normal life with Jose's help. I don't think for a moment this story will have a happy ending, mind you.

I'm confused, are there only two manga volumes? I thought GSG was still running in the Dengeki monthly or weekly and more volumes/books will be compiled when there's more material. <panicking> It can't end at chapter 11!! There would not be enough even for a 13 episodes season!!

[Aquillion]

Are you sure they are dead? It was never shown onscreen and they just planned to have tea together when they got back.

I heard a rumor that ADV was in negotiations for a Noir sequel. I hope its not true.
Yes, I'm very sure they were dead. The director even said in an interview (while the show was still running) that they wouldn't just be able to walk away from all the killing that they'd done. Additionally, their deaths fit into the plot as a whole -- Soldats are people who take the sins of the world onto themselves and then die themselves. Finally, it just wouldn't make sense for them to survive. They discover all the innermost secrets of this world-spanning evil organization, assassinate one of its leaders at the behest of its other leaders, then just walk away and have tea? Um, no. As Robert A Heinlein put it in Friday, "Agents are strongly advised to avoid jobs such as this, regardless of the payment offered. It is unlikely that your employer will allow you to survive long enough to spend it."

They knew they were going to die. Their lighthearted discussion at the end was to try and comfort each other; the two gunshots that are heard after that are the two of them being killed by the Soldat leaders.As for the no blood thing, the director said that that was an artistic choice on his part -- he felt that excessive blood made the violence exploitive or some such thing. Well, I don't know how cutting all the blood out would make it any less exploitive, but anyway, that's why Noir only uses it in a few crucial scenes.

[K_R]

--Relentless

I don't know what Rico's case would be for, but judging from the name on the case, I think it's some violin type instrument. Then again, it might not be a reference to the Amati violinmakers...

Don't forget that Rico was using a Galil MAR at the range, so that could be the weapon hidden in her case. It's a very small assault rifle and would be a good fit for the case.

Triela's signature weapon is a Winchester M1897 shotgun, "trench" variant. I have info for it, but am waiting for her to shoot someone with it before I tack it onto an episode.

Only two compiled volumes: http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/249-2562673-3309959

But, there is more being made. On Aida Yu's website:
コミック「電撃大王」にて「GUNSLINGER GIRL」を連載中9/20発売11月号に第14話が掲載されました。

14 chapters so far, 13-episode series... I guess they could merge chapters together to fit the whole story in 13 episodes. Or do a Gainax and make up an ending...

[Relentless]

--Relentless

Only two compiled volumes: http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/249-2562673-3309959

But, there is more being made. On Aida Yu's website:
コミック「電撃大王」にて「GUNSLINGER GIRL」を連載中9/20発売11月号に第14話が掲載されました。

14 chapters so far, 13-episode series... I guess they could merge chapters together to fit the whole story in 13 episodes. Or do a Gainax and make up an ending...

Ah, thank you. Although I don't know if it's a relief since the anime is going to be 13 episodes anyways :heh:

As much as I'd like a second season and more, I don't believe it's or it'll be popular enough. But Divergence Eve got a second season, so who knows

The two compiled volumes could be made into 10 or 11 episodes (chapters 10-11 are rather short). They're stand alone stories, no major arch or overarching plot. Then in the last couple of episodes they would probably make up an ending. I hope it's at least decent. There was a time when almost all anime told a complete story, with a satisfying ending. But then, most series were 50+ episodes.

We only need about 2-3 chapters more and there'll be another volume. One's hoping it'll have Triela on the cover :heh:

As I said earlier, I'll be happy with a faithful manga adaptation. I'm clawing at the wall waiting for episode 4 since it *should* adapt chapter 3, followed by chapter 6. I have great fondness for Triela, and the firing range scene is amusing (yet still full of tragic undertones). Chapter 8 is my all time favorite, tho. It's going to be very beautiful.

In the old forum, it was said that Triela had a rifle, a German-made G3?

With no new material, I'm poring at episode 3, and these caught my eye:

Rico is waay too bad a shot with the Galil at the firing range considering that she's the team's sniper and has been at least two years "working" for the organization, don't you think?

Also at the firing range, Hilscher's instructions to Triela seemed really basic, did he think it was her first time shooting?

Regarding the organization's amazing tactical prowess, did those clowns really, really believe they were going to fool anybody disguising little girls as maids? Sure, posh hotels hire elemental schoolers all time. Italy must have some weird Children's Labor laws, huh?

This made me speculate (an idle mind is a scary thing!) about the girls age:

We know Claes was at least 10 y-o before being taken in by the organization. Claes look about the same age as Rico, maybe a bit younger. We know Rico was taken in two years ago. In the violin scene, Rico and Henrietta were the same height, but in the manga Rico is taller. Angelica is taller than Henrietta too, but just slightly.

So I think Henrietta is about 8 (like Rico when she was taken in). Angelica should be just a little older, let's say 9. Claes may be 10 or 11, and Rico should be 10 or 11 too. Triela is the tallest and eldest, she should be 12 or 13 max. since it's pretty obvious all the girls are pre-pubescent.

So let's let this sink in for a bit: there's a secret organization doing political assasinations with brainwashed abandoned little girls aged from 8 to 12. I say the bastiches must be rounded up, stabbed in the gut with blunt rusted instruments and left to be eaten alive by African giant ants :mad:

Finally, I'm pretty sure GSG is set in the immediate present. Check the newspaper page the guy in front of Hilscher is reading in the hotel's lobby (0h18m18s). It says "Barcellona k.o. Ciao Van Gaal". Van Gaal was famous soccer club Barcelona FBC's coach and left around May 2003. Pretty neat, using real news :eyespin:

[burukame]

I was wondering which fansubs has the best translation or just overall for Gunslinger Girls? There are so many fansub groups (Triad, Aone, Seichi, Anbu) releasing it and I'm not sure which one to download.. = I Thank you!!

[NenMaster]

why not download a couple and judge your self?

[Shii]

「電撃大王」
Hey, I recognize those kanji. I guess I really did learn something from Azumanga Daioh!

:thinker:

[K_R]

There's something that has been bugging me since episode 2, I've been considering doing a poll about it...

Do viewers of seichi's GSG like the gun notes at the beginning? Or should I give it the chop?

--

-Relentless

I assume all the girls are trained in the use of rifles, pistols and other (eg. shotguns). I would say Triela's "signature" weapon is the M1897, since that's what she's pictured with in the GSG logo thing.

Rico's ability with assault rifles doesn't necessarily translate to sniper rifles. Full auto is not particularly easy to control... I think they put that in to demonstrate Triela's prowess and overall superiority. But it could also mean...

Rico's arms are still real. In manga chapter 3, we see Triela being shot in both arms and not being adversely affected. Hence she's able to control something like the G3 in full auto.

I don't remember my shooting instruction being much more detailed that what Hilsher told Triela, don't forget he seemed to stop halfway through when he saw her doing it on her own. How to hold the gun, line up the sights. There's not a lot to tell...

As to their ages, I assume they're all the same age. Their height and mental maturity doesn't tell anything, remember, we're not all clones and some people grow faster than others.

[Shii]

Do viewers of seichi's GSG like the gun notes at the beginning? Or should I give it the chop?
I'm not interested, but I like the gun notes just because I get to listen to the OP a second time. ;) Plus, it can't be that hard to skip over them... although it would be easier if you used OGM.

[aquilus]

Rico is waay too bad a shot with the Galil at the firing range considering that she's the team's sniper and has been at least two years "working" for the organization, don't you think?

Firing a sniper rifle is quite different than firing full auto/bursts from an assault rifle.

Regarding the organization's amazing tactical prowess, did those clowns really, really believe they were going to fool anybody disguising little girls as maids? Sure, posh hotels hire elemental schoolers all time. Italy must have some weird Children's Labor laws, huh?

Well, it worked well enough :D

[durrem]

Do viewers of seichi's GSG like the gun notes at the beginning? Or should I give it the chop?


I love them. Please keep them.

[Lambda]

Well, I'm not watching seichi's version, so maybe it's not for me to say, but I still think it contains a point worth making; I, personally, am very glad the version I'm following (Triad) doesn't have any such notes. The anime really isn't about the technical details of firearms, (to me at least), so it seems inappropriate, perhaps even insensitive.

But then not every version has them, and choice is good. . .

[Relentless]

I like the notes about the guns, but a bit of comment on their use in the anime would make them more relevant and less just dry specifications. While it's true GSG does not focus on the technical aspects of firearms, the author went to the lenght of giving each girl a different weapon. Might there even be a symbolic reason?

I still like to think the girls are of different ages since it fits with a pet theory of mine about how the anime might end :P

Rico has not shown abnormal strenght, probably her "upgrades" are mostly neural. She must have had some kind of nervous system illness that left her immobilized. Buuut...

Spoiler for manga chapter 9

I don't think so. Rico is shot on the right arm and, like Triela, it doesn't affect her. Rico is also shot on the head, would her skull be armor plated? I think all the girls have had their four limbs replaced or massively reinforced since they pretty much use her arms as shields in a pinch and can stop bullets at quite close range.

It's soo insensitive, but Triela kicks ass :heh:

BTW, K_R, I'd like to ask you a question about manga chapter 4, may I?


I was left with the impression that Triela may have had a previous supervisor before Hilsher, and he didn't know she was so experienced. I mean, how many times do you need to be told to align the sights? If they were practicing with bayonet, I half expect he would tell her: "Right, point the pointy end to the target!" :D

[Kensuke]

Fourth episode was actually quite funny and happy, I laughed a lot, quite a mood change compared to third episode. Also finally some action (Triela rocks!), but some scenes were painful to watch, I feel sorry for Rico, and if this continues, it will be difficult for me to watch it... or maybe I'm too hooked to this series... :D

Scenes of Mario and Triela handcuffed were funny. And when mafia captures him he says (from Miyuki sub) "...because just about now a pretty scary person is coming."
LOL!

[Gabriel710]

Damn those spoilers are so tempting to highlite.

Well just saw ep 4 and damn I liked it. As kensuke said Triela rocks. I really dont think that the girls are the same age since Triela has her period and she looks older than the other girls. I guess Triela and Henrieta are the lucky ones since they dont get hit by theire brothers. I dont know about you guys but it just pisses me off that Jon is hitting Rico.
Oh yah who else thinks that Mario is Trielas dad?

[Keitaro]

Damn those spoilers are so tempting to highlite.

Well just saw ep 4 and damn I liked it. As kensuke said Triela rocks. I really dont think that the girls are the same age since Triela has her period and she looks older than the other girls. I guess Triela and Henrieta are the lucky ones since they dont get hit by theire brothers. I dont know about you guys but it just pisses me off that Jon is hitting Rico.
Oh yah who else thinks that Mario is Trielas dad?

Hmm... its possible, but their just isnt enough evidence to say that she is Marios daughter.

1. He says he send his daughter a present every Christmas, Triela hasnt gotton any gifts from him, only teddy bears from her big brother from the 7 years she has been there.

2. I would think Mario would know his own daughter name and what she looked like if he seen her. He said he hasnt seen her in a while, so he must know what she looks like.

[FlyByNite]

Yea, Triela is a pretty cool character and she has looked older then the others. I'd guess she's around 11 or 12. Maybe 13, but that's probably pushing it.

I really liked episode 4. Definitely my favorite episode so far.

altho it was obvious to me Mario was going to be looking for his daughter to give a Christmas present to. I figured that would happened when they made a big deal out of presents in the episode already. Still it was pretty cool.

I have to wonder though. Wouldn't Mario put his daughter in danger by seeing her? Or why wouldn't the mafia use his daughter against him? I'd guess he kept her secret and they had no idea about her. Although they could still have tracked him and he would have ended up putting her in danger.

[Go-lytely]

Triela is definitely not Mario's daughter. Remember the conversation in the bathroom, Mario was involved with shipping young girls "lambs" prostitutes most likely to Amsterdam. Triela remembered her parents got her in Amsterdam so she may have been one of the "lambs" as well. Mario felt guilty which is probably why he sent Triela the bear.

btw, anyone know what Jean's nationality is?

[PocariSweat]

Boy after watching episode four it struck me - did anyone else think that going back to see his daughter with half the mob on his tail was perhaps the *stupidest* thing that Mafia boss could have done? I mean everyone know those folks are such nice guys and would never lay a finger on his family - right? :heh:

Actually, I'm finding this show pretty painful to watch. It's not the quality of the show - it's just the situation it places these kids in just seems so utterly unconscionable. It's almost like saying reality isn't cruel enough already, so we're going to try and make a show as gut wrenchingly brutal and heartless as possible. Seems like the writers were just told "take the most innocent characters you can come up with and run them through a physical and emotional meat grinder". I surprised they don't have an episode where the kids are forced to kill puppies and kittens ...or each-other (but, heh I kind of expect that's comming down the pike).

It's almost like watching demon rape "snuff" hentai - more frightening than the story itself is that there's a market for the stuff.

[Keitaro]

Boy after watching episode four it struck me - did anyone else think that going back to see his daughter with half the mob on his tail was perhaps the *stupidest* thing that Mafia boss could have done? I mean everyone know those folks are such nice guys and would never lay a finger on his family - right? :heh:

Actually, I'm finding this show pretty painful to watch. It's not the quality of the show - it's just the situation it places these kids in just seems so utterly unconscionable. It's almost like saying reality isn't cruel enough already, so we're going to try and make a show as gut wrenchingly brutal and heartless as possible. Seems like the writers were just told "take the most innocent characters you can come up with and run them through a physical and emotional meat grinder". I surprised they don't have an episode where the kids are forced to kill puppies and kittens ...or each-other (but, heh I kind of expect that's comming down the pike).

It's almost like watching demon rape "snuff" hentai - more frightening than the story itself is that there's a market for the stuff.

True...this show reminds me of Noir, but ten times worse. I never watched an demon rape so I wouldnt know :innocent:

[skylion]

I am not what one would call an anime junkie, but thru my friends I keep a side interest in them. This show completely blows me away. When I heard about the english manga I had to call my local Barnes and Nobles to see if they would be getting it and they are, my copy is reserved. I cannot wait.
I am not the gun nut that some are, but I do believe that the girls individual guns do symbolize somthing. Rico is mostly lyconic, a perfect disposition for a sniper alone in her nest. Henrietta has the strength and tenacity (when she is in a gunfight) too wade into the fray, a submachine gun suits her. Trieal, so far, has worked as a adjunct to her sibling, so carries small arms (those brief seconds of her hand to hand fight in the streets of Naples were fantastic). The other girls, not much has been show about them in the four eps I have, but they seems to be sweepers. If these five girls ever work a mission together, they would seem to provide backup, it looks like they have semi-auto shotguns with lots of stopping power. But...I am probably wrong.
I like all the eps so far and would be hard pressed to pick my favorite. Ep 2 stands out to me because it provides alot of emotional backstory for Henrietta and Jose. His relationship too her is almost paternal, not brotherly. But he seems to regret his decision in both chosing her and working for the corporation. I could imagine him pulling a "Deckard" at the end, ala Blade Runner, and running off with her, but will have to wait and see.

[Anlushac11]

In Italy the Mafia still has their own code of honor, or so I was told.

They dont involve each others family members unless a member declares vendetta.

Since we are talking about the Italian Mafia they normally would not hurt the wife or children. In USA that is a different matter.

And yes Triela rocks! and wasnt something said that Henrietta cant have mentrual cramps? or was that Rico? Artifical body? no reproductive organs?

[skylion]

Spoiler Warning...





It might have brought some more dramatic tension had Triela not mentioned to Henrietta earlier in ep4 that she was having menstraul cramps. I don't know how that would help with character development as T seems fairly open about herself and her feelings. If she had only said something to Mario about it during the entire ep, it might have opened up some interesting things about her. She feels more comfortable talking to strangers than her friends.
Just conjecture really.



...end spoiler.

How do you do that neat highlight to read trick, btw?

[Keitaro]

Spoiler Warning...

...end spoiler.

How do you do that neat highlight to read trick, btw?

Spoiler]put in message here[/spoiler] with the [

I think is another way of doing it but I forgot

[PocariSweat]

In Italy the Mafia still has their own code of honor, or so I was told.
They dont involve each others family members unless a member declares vendetta.

Somehow I think that's just an overly-romantic myth. The "honor among thief" bit may of had some truth at one time, but I think that's generally accepted as long gone. If it existed at all it was a rule between mob families (to avoid vendettas) - I really doubt it would be extended to someone who's turned traitor and no longer even part of the "family". When it comes down to the wire, you can bet they'll protect their own skin any way they can - indeed, the mob has often used such threats to keep it's members in the fold.

Not to mention this seems to be set in some future time where the mob is trafficking in children - I don't think there's much honor left after that.

[skylion]

Spoiler]put in message here[/spoiler] with the [

I think is another way of doing it but I forgot

Thanks. Let's give it a test...

I liked it when Taiela threw that guy like 10 feet with a kick. Yeah, it was cool. Sorry, that wasn't much of a spoiler, but I am tired.

Did that work?

[Xiandu]

I am really surprised by this show. When I first heard about it i wanted nothing to do with it. But after seeing a few posts at random sites i decided to give it a shot and must say that i love this show. Very dramatic though. Every episode leaves me bitter at these people who could do this to the adorable little girls.

Ok now the point of my post. I believe that in either ep2 or 3 they said Triela is around 15 or so. Thus the reason for the cramps. Really sad about Henrietta because she lost most of her body do that tragic incident she had.

And i agree that it is impossible for Mario to be the father of Triela.

[Hao Asakura]

Reading all the posts above, is that Triela is the daughter's of Mario; since she got the Christmas present from him
I like the action in this episode. It was all happened in a blink of eyes :D Yeah, it was that fast and cool :bow:

[aquilus]

Trieal, so far, has worked as a adjunct to her sibling, so carries small arms (those brief seconds of her hand to hand fight in the streets of Naples were fantastic).
Well ... she had a shotgun with a bayonnet in the first episode ... ;P But the fight you are talking about was indeed rather damn cool.

[Lonewulf]

For no reason at all I had to put my 2 cents in...Episode 3 made me sad...you know why? my name is EMilio. Pissed me off. You never see an Emilio in anime...and when i finally did. They killed him. It was like a part of me died.

[Sour-Do]

For no reason at all I had to put my 2 cents in...Episode 3 made me sad...you know why? my name is EMilio. Pissed me off. You never see an Emilio in anime...and when i finally did. They killed him. It was like a part of me died.
Heh heh. Sorry, that was just too funny. :D

-- Sour-Do
AnimeMuyou!

[Keitaro]

Reading all the posts above, is that Triela is the daughter's of Mario; since she got the Christmas present from him
I like the action in this episode. It was all happened in a blink of eyes :D Yeah, it was that fast and cool :bow:

Triela is not Marios daughter, just read back a few posts. rewatch ep 4 again listen closely to Marios and Triela conversation in the restroom and the ending scene when they talk once more after Triela kills off the mafia guys.

best regards Lonewulf too bad he had to die.

[skylion]

I
Ok now the point of my post. I believe that in either ep2 or 3 they said Triela is around 15 or so. Thus the reason for the cramps. Really sad about Henrietta because she lost most of her body do that tragic incident she had.

And i agree that it is impossible for Mario to be the father of Triela.


I didn't catch where they said she was 15. I have the ANBU sub, so our versions may vary. Even so, she doesn't look 15. More like 12, 11 at the youngest. It is possible for girls too menstrate as early as that. Take into account that we have no idea how much the cyborp parts messed with these girls hormones. It's obvious that Henrietta may never go thru a visit with "Aunt Flo", but the others are likely. And that's terrilble for Henrietta. This is a cautionary tale being told.

[skylion]

I like the action in this episode. It was all happened in a blink of eyes :D Yeah, it was that fast and cool :bow:


And that's the way gunplay and violence is. It's over in a blink of any eye. Gunfight at the OK Corall, anyone? And the producers seem to pay attention too that. I admit, I looked into this show because I thought it would be a western. When I read the synopsis, before downloading, I was hooked. The premise was difficult too ignore. Does anyone this that the hook of children with guns is a reaction to violence, esp. that which is offered in entertainment. The message that I get, any your mileage may vary, is that violence is conditioned into children by the adults around them, and not thier source of entertainment. I can support that in a way by claiming that the girls don't watch tv or play video games. Thier toys are soft (Triela's bears). But they are constantly being drilled and trained in how to deal out deadly violence. Is it any wonder that Henrietta is having the problems she is having. She reacts the only way she knows how when faced with danger. And the relationship she is developing with Jose dovetails with that.
Wow, that was longwinded.
One more thing. Is this show a reaction to similar programs like Noir. Teenagers with guns doing the spy/espionage this is potable. Is GSG saying in it's own way: Let's push the envelope further and ractched down the age group. That should get the eyes poppin'

[K_R]

I think GSG is older than Noir, unless Noir has a preceding manga as well. The GSG in manga form dates back to before 1998 - the earliest manga I have of GSG is "PRESENCE #3" which is from 1998.

--PocariSweat
Most of the anime is straight conversion from the manga. So your, 'Seems like the writers were just told "take the most innocent characters you can come up with and run them through a physical and emotional meat grinder".' is somewhat invalidated, since its creator is one man, not a group of writers.

[Gabriel710]

I watched the ep again and it strengthened my theory that Mario is Trielas father (not bothering to put spoilers since some people didnt put). Why did Triealas brother let Mario go when he was right there listening to their conversation? In other words he knew Triela straight up lied to him. Why did Triela get two teddies? The shock in Marios face? Those points lead to my theory that Mario is Trielas dad. If you show me proof that totaly dispute this theory then my theory is out of the window.

[skylion]

I think GSG is older than Noir, unless Noir has a preceding manga as well. The GSG in manga form dates back to before 1998 - the earliest manga I have of GSG is "PRESENCE #3" which is from 1998.

--PocariSweat
Most of the anime is straight conversion from the manga. So your, 'Seems like the writers were just told "take the most innocent characters you can come up with and run them through a physical and emotional meat grinder".' is somewhat invalidated, since its creator is one man, not a group of writers.

Don't know if Noir was a manga before an anime or not, but I will take your word on it. And yeah, your second point does say alot as well. Unless the manga was reactionary. But I don't think arguing about that would get anyone anywhere.

[NenMaster]

is GSG a manga?

[skylion]

is GSG a manga?

Yes. Thou ADV has said that the street date for volume one is today (11/18), Barnes and Nobles online has is listed as October. I quick visit on my way from work told me it will be in today. So, guess who gets the first manga today. Yep. Lots of us. Can't wait. I want to see if there are any more details that I might have missed after watching "Siblings" about a half dozen time already.

[K_R]

As mentioned earlier, GSG is serialised in Dengeki Daiou, currently up to chapter 14. The first 11 chapters have been compiled into two volumes.

The creator, Aida Yu, has also done a lot of GSG manga that lie outside the 'main' manga run.

[FlyByNite]

I saw Gunslinger Girl Volume 1 at a local book store today. So I'd guess it's being released on time by ADV.

[Relentless]

I watched the ep again and it strengthened my theory that Mario is Trielas father (not bothering to put spoilers since some people didnt put). Why did Triealas brother let Mario go when he was right there listening to their conversation? In other words he knew Triela straight up lied to him. Why did Triela get two teddies? The shock in Marios face? Those points lead to my theory that Mario is Trielas dad. If you show me proof that totaly dispute this theory then my theory is out of the window.

Proof? Hardly, just consider that

Mario left the Mafia because her daughter was born. Shortly after that, Hilsher was fired from EUROPOL and Triela was "acquired" by Social Welfare Corporation in Amsterdam. Mario was shocked because he thought that Triela could have been one of the girls he smuggled working for the Mafia in that very same city. Mario sent her a teddy because he was remorseful anyway, and he was grateful that Triela let her go to see her daughter (nevermind that she also saved his life). Do you imagine what might have happened if it was Rico instead? Mario would have needed a full body cast and a wheelchair to testify if he tried to scape from Rico.

Mario was sending his daughter gifts every year, so he knew where she was. Then why does Triela have only 6 teddy bears?. Unless you think she's 3 years old, she should have received one teddy from Hilsher every year since she entered SWC plus one teddy from her "dad" Mario since she was born. BTW you DO realize Triela and Hilsher are not real brothers, do you?

Hilsher didn't stop Triela from letting Mario go because he was still grateful for his help uncovering the children smuggling trade back then and he also trusted that Mario will testify. Not too professional, but he was more concerned about Triela than anything else. Probably he was happy that Triela did the "right thing" instead of blindly following orders, pretty much like he did years ago and lost his job

--Lonewulf

Take it as a warning, if you ever come across a girl named Rico carrying a violin case, run like hell :D

[Keitaro]

I watched the ep again and it strengthened my theory that Mario is Trielas father (not bothering to put spoilers since some people didnt put). Why did Triealas brother let Mario go when he was right there listening to their conversation? In other words he knew Triela straight up lied to him. Why did Triela get two teddies? The shock in Marios face? Those points lead to my theory that Mario is Trielas dad. If you show me proof that totaly dispute this theory then my theory is out of the window.

You want proof then read over my earlier posts and others who have proof that Triela is not Marios daughter. You should just rewatch the episode over again and pay close attention to the bathroom scene and the ending where Triela kills off the Mafia guys.

[PocariSweat]

Most of the anime is straight conversion from the manga. So your, 'Seems like the writers were just told "take the most innocent characters you can come up with and run them through a physical and emotional meat grinder".' is somewhat invalidated, since its creator is one man, not a group of writers.

Ok, so one guy decided to do it all on his lonesome - does that make it any less exploitative? It's a show where you wind up hating almost everybody - I can only hope the kids turn on their "benefactors" one of these days.

I know the show wants to make Henrietta's "handler" out to be a nice guy, but phooey I say. Despite playing up his regrets and the kindness he tries to show Henrietta, he's still as much of a bastard as the rest for using the girls to begin with. Making him out to be a good guy is kind of like being the "kind hearted serial rapist" - it just doesn't work.

[Anlushac11]

Proof? Hardly, just consider that

Mario left the Mafia because her daughter was born. Shortly after that, Hilsher was fired from EUROPOL and Triela was "acquired" by Social Welfare Corporation in Amsterdam. Mario was shocked because he thought that Triela could have been one of the girls he smuggled working for the Mafia in that very same city. Mario sent her a teddy because he was remorseful anyway, and he was grateful that Triela let her go to see her daughter (nevermind that she also saved his life). Do you imagine what might have happened if it was Rico instead? Mario would have needed a full body cast and a wheelchair to testify if he tried to scape from Rico.

Mario was sending his daughter gifts every year, so he knew where she was. Then why does Triela have only 6 teddy bears?. Unless you think she's 3 years old, she should have received one teddy from Hilsher every year since she entered SWC plus one teddy from her "dad" Mario since she was born. BTW you DO realize Triela and Hilsher are not real brothers, do you?

Hilsher didn't stop Triela from letting Mario go because he was still grateful for his help uncovering the children smuggling trade back then and he also trusted that Mario will testify. Not too professional, but he was more concerned about Triela than anything else. Probably he was happy that Triela did the "right thing" instead of blindly following orders, pretty much like he did years ago and lost his job

--Lonewulf

Take it as a warning, if you ever come across a girl named Rico carrying a violin case, run like hell :D

[spoiler] It was my understanding that Triela started receiving the Teddy Bears from her "brother" when she arrived at the institute. IIRC It has been mentioned that she has been there six years and her brother always gives her a Teddy Bear and never asks her what she wants for Christmas. He finally confessed that he doesnt know what to get her and thought little girls liked Teddy Bears. Triela was touched at his confession and was happy that he asked her what she wanted. Also I think Triela's brother listened in and didnt intervene because he himself had let Mario go and now Triela was doing the same thing. I took it to mean she was a thinking and feeling human being and not a machine like Rico. Rico will do whatever she is told. She follows orders. Triela can reason and think for herself.

[Anlushac11]

I also agree that Triela is not Mario's daughter.

I think the show implies that Triela was one of the kids being bought and sold and Mario was helpful in busting up that ring. Mario so much as admitted that it bothered him when he thought that Triela might have been one of the kids bought and sold in that ring.

[K_R]

I was more pointing out that GSG was not created by a group of writers and is based on a manga - there are people posting in this thread thinking that it's an original anime.

--

In episode one, we learn that Jose doesn't want to use a child, but is given no choice. I think he _is_ a good guy because he makes the best out of a bad situation. If he decided to not take Henrietta, maybe she could have ended up with a real bastard like Jean (for bastard factor, in "Presence #3" we see Jean slamming Rico's head into the wall and picking her up by the neck). And remember the state that she was in when he found her: mental disarray and several limbs amputated (now that I think about it, the people that killed her family might have done the amputation on her!). Sure, she had to become a killer, but I think she's better off a killing machine with the Corporation than a suicidal amputee in the hospital.

[Relentless]

It was my understanding that Triela started receiving the Teddy Bears from her "brother" when she arrived at the institute. IIRC It has been mentioned that she has been there six years and her brother always gives her a Teddy Bear and never asks her what she wants for Christmas. He finally confessed that he doesnt know what to get her and thought little girls liked Teddy Bears. Triela was touched at his confession and was happy that he asked her what she wanted. Also I think Triela's brother listened in and didnt intervene because he himself had let Mario go and now Triela was doing the same thing. I took it to mean she was a thinking and feeling human being and not a machine like Rico. Rico will do whatever she is told. She follows orders. Triela can reason and think for herself.

I think Mario is not Triela's father too. I was just making a point that if Mario was Triela's father, she should have received more gifts. Triela's independence might bring her into trouble in the future. It might even be the trigger for the sad and tragical ending GSG might ultimately have.

I think the show implies that Triela was one of the kids being bought and sold and Mario was helpful in busting up that ring. Mario so much as admitted that it bothered him when he thought that Triela might have been one of the kids bought and sold in that ring.

Not only that, Mario pretty much said that while he worked for the Mafia in Amsterdam, he was precisely in *that operation*

[K_R]

I think Mario is not Triela's father too. I was just making a point that if Mario was Triela's father, she should have received more gifts. Triela's independence might bring her into trouble in the future. It might even be the trigger for the sad and tragical ending GSG might ultimately have.


Assuming that the presents that he sent actually get to his daughter. I think Mario's expression when she said "placed under protection in Amsterdam" is more of a "hey this could be my daughter!" rather than "oh shit she's one of the girls I smuggled and she might be pissed off at me!" Mario has been on the run since he quit the mafia, which would hint that he doesn't know what his daughter looks like, what her name is, or where she really is. My guess is that he goes to Napoli, assuming that is where she is, when in fact she is not there, but he doesn't know this (Or that he goes there to begin his search for his daughter - start where you know she was, then ask around). Mario gives Triela the teddy bear because he believes she's his daughter - he wouldn't risk his life going to Napoli to give his daughter the teddy bear, then end up giving it to some other girl.

The toilet scene just serves to make thing ambiguous, I don't think you can use to to conclusively determine that Triela is _not_ Mario's daughter, but rather give background on the relationship between Hilsher and Mario.

How old are these smuggled girls? Old enough to be (sex)slaves? They would have to be around 13 to be useful slaves or 16+ to be sex slaves (guessing here). We know that Hilsher joined the Corporation before Triela arrived and that Triela has been with the Corporation for 6 years. Now, Triela doesn't look older than 13 to me, which could place her outside the age of the girls being smuggled and I don't see why smuggling 6-yr old girls is useful.

[Relentless]

Ok, so one guy decided to do it all on his lonesome - does that make it any less exploitative? It's a show where you wind up hating almost everybody - I can only hope the kids turn on their "benefactors" one of these days.

I know the show wants to make Henrietta's "handler" out to be a nice guy, but phooey I say. Despite playing up his regrets and the kindness he tries to show Henrietta, he's still as much of a bastard as the rest for using the girls to begin with. Making him out to be a good guy is kind of like being the "kind hearted serial rapist" - it just doesn't work.

I agree it's disturbing that young girls are used as killers in GSG, but maybe there's a reason and not pure shock value for marketing purposes. Maybe the author is trying to make a point. What point? With only four episodes, it's too early to tell, but so far, this series is not exploitative; it's a serious, tragic, dramatic story. Is it legitimate to use young girls? We might get into an endless debate about the use of violence in popular entertainment. So far, it has not advocated or condoned violence either commited against children or performed by children. The girls have suffered from violence yet they deal out even more violence, but the series doesn't shirk from acknowledging there's a terrible price to pay. It has not played the "violence/ destruction/ revenge/ murder=cool" angle like in mere action flicks. They use the children to stress the message, like in "Now and then here and there" and not because the audience should get a kick out of it.

I also think *all* the creeps who work in that corporation should be gassed, but you can't deny that Jose and Hilsher sincerely care for Henrietta and Triela. It raises an interesting point: are Jose and Hilsher better than Jan because they're nice to their charges? All of them order their "sisters" to commit terrible acts. Maybe Jan is the less hypocrit of all, treating Rico like a tool, which is the way the other two end up using the girls, teddy bears and stargazing notwithstanding.

[Keitaro]

Assuming that the presents that he sent actually get to his daughter. I think Mario's expression when she said "placed under protection in Amsterdam" is more of a "hey this could be my daughter!" rather than "oh shit she's one of the girls I smuggled and she might be pissed off at me!" Mario has been on the run since he quit the mafia, which would hint that he doesn't know what his daughter looks like, what her name is, or where she really is. My guess is that he goes to Napoli, assuming that is where she is, when in fact she is not there, but he doesn't know this (Or that he goes there to begin his search for his daughter - start where you know she was, then ask around). Mario gives Triela the teddy bear because he believes she's his daughter - he wouldn't risk his life going to Napoli to give his daughter the teddy bear, then end up giving it to some other girl.

The toilet scene just serves to make thing ambiguous, I don't think you can use to to conclusively determine that Triela is _not_ Mario's daughter, but rather give background on the relationship between Hilsher and Mario.

How old are these smuggled girls? Old enough to be (sex)slaves? They would have to be around 13 to be useful slaves or 16+ to be sex slaves (guessing here). We know that Hilsher joined the Corporation before Triela arrived and that Triela has been with the Corporation for 6 years. Now, Triela doesn't look older than 13 to me, which could place her outside the age of the girls being smuggled and I don't see why smuggling 6-yr old girls is useful.

Well the truth is their is more evidence to say Treila is not Marios daughter then that she is. So lets leave it at that. They never really indicated that she is or not, everything we say is just pure speculation, no one knows, but maybe well find out later into the series whether he was actually her father or not.

[Relentless]

Assuming that the presents that he sent actually get to his daughter. I think Mario's expression when she said "placed under protection in Amsterdam" is more of a "hey this could be my daughter!" rather than "oh shit she's one of the girls I smuggled and she might be pissed off at me!" Mario has been on the run since he quit the mafia, which would hint that he doesn't know what his daughter looks like, what her name is, or where she really is. My guess is that he goes to Napoli, assuming that is where she is, when in fact she is not there, but he doesn't know this (Or that he goes there to begin his search for his daughter - start where you know she was, then ask around). Mario gives Triela the teddy bear because he believes she's his daughter - he wouldn't risk his life going to Napoli to give his daughter the teddy bear, then end up giving it to some other girl.

I think it was more of a "hey this could be my daughter!" on the lines of "My daughter is/will be a girl and could have been hijacked like this girl too". I don't find too plausible that after all those years looking for his daughter, he finds her and just tips his hat and walks away saying "I can't ask you to forgive me, but...". The guy simpy got his conscious back when his daughter was born and as a father, started to empathize with the parents of the girls he was hijacking
And without any hint or proof, I say Mario was reunited with his daughter, gave her Christmas gift in person as he promised, and then sent the teddy bear to the nice girl who made it possible :heh:

How old are these smuggled girls? Old enough to be (sex)slaves? They would have to be around 13 to be useful slaves or 16+ to be sex slaves (guessing here). We know that Hilsher joined the Corporation before Triela arrived and that Triela has been with the Corporation for 6 years. Now, Triela doesn't look older than 13 to me, which could place her outside the age of the girls being smuggled and I don't see why smuggling 6-yr old girls is useful.

If the author modelled this story from real world facts, 6 year old Triela was a common case.
With no more knowledge that some UNICEF ads and reports, I'm afraid that the reality of child smuggling for sex trade is ghastly beyond description. Just Google around: children (both boys and girls) are bought or hijacked from their families as early as 4-5 years old. Some are "trained" for some years to be the perfect sex companion or work as slaves, but many are immediately offered to the more "demanding" customers (read pedophiles) who pay huge sums for kids that young. Even tourism campaigns from some countries not-so-subtly pander that kind of "atractions". A particularly galling example was a poster from the *official* Agency for Tourism of a country I'll not name. It featured a very young girl (seven or eight) and the legend "If it can be bought, used or abused, you'll find it in <country>".

Really, words fail me.

[K_R]

Am I the only one who finds this page particularly funny, the majority of it being in spoiler tags.

OK, I didn't realise that sex slaves were trained/abducted at such an early age.

As for the Mario/Triela thing, I don't really care either way. Just pointing out that you can argue for both cases if you wanted to.

Jan doesn't treat Rico as a tool. He treats her like a punching bag for his displaced anger.

[PocariSweat]

[quote] Now, Triela doesn't look older than 13 to me, which could place her outside the age of the girls being smuggled and I don't see why smuggling 6-yr old girls is useful. [\quote]

Aside from what others have said, don't forget this is a show where a child of that age can be turned into the ultimate killing machine. I kind of took the smuggling as a sign that, properly conditioned, children may be useful "tools" for all kinds of nasty things.

As for Mario's musume I think that idea's a bit daft. On one side you have the likelyhood that he just wanted to give a gift to the girl that helped him *as well* as his daughter. On the other, you'd have to believe he went through all that to deliver a present to someone who was right beside him the whole time! Not to mention all the other logical problems with that. After all, even before they met he was trying to get to his daughter (it's the whole reason he was on the loose) so how could he possibly only discover her identity after that? Remember he wanted to spend Christmas with his daughter (and not just give her a gift) because he had promised her. He obviously was not a stranger to her.

[Go-lytely]

Yeah, its pretty obvious that Triela is not Mario's daughter. The evidence is all there against it, but there will always be one or two people who will argue otherwise. Those people are deluded conspiracy theorists. :)

[Anlushac11]

Am I the only one who finds this page particularly funny, the majority of it being in spoiler tags.

OK, I didn't realise that sex slaves were trained/abducted at such an early age.

As for the Mario/Triela thing, I don't really care either way. Just pointing out that you can argue for both cases if you wanted to.

Jan doesn't treat Rico as a tool. He treats her like a punching bag for his displaced anger.

And thats why I think Rico will self destruct. She is treated as a tool and without any consideration or regard for her feelings. And I think Jan thinks Rico is considered disposable. She is a tool that when she wears out or breaks down and used up she will be disposed of like so much garbage.

Triela and especially Henrietta seem to be treated as people and not machines. I think this will be important in the long run.

[Xiandu]

Yeah i agree that the facts are very much in favor of Triela not being Mario's Daughter. The possibility of her being his daughter just seems to round about and not straight on. The rest of the show has been pretty straight foward. To say that she is daughter, you have to come up with some elaborate scheme of things just like (no offense) the person stated above. This is Gunslinger Girl not a John Grisam work. Not to pick on you but c'mon the facts are totally obvious.

[Gabriel710]

Well call me a deluded conpiracy theorist but im stil sticking with it. Unless I see it in the manga that clearly state to me that he is not the father then im still a deluded conspiracy theorists.


Now thats out of the way. I agree with the poster who said that Rico might self destruct. Im also thinking that John might be the first brother to die out of the brother of the five girls that were shown.

Damn I wished I found out about the Manga sooner.

[skylion]

I think if you look at the series as something akin to a Shakespearian Tragedy, you can get some perspective, even only four eps in.
I think Jose is our tragic hero. He has a deep flaw that brings alot of his basic character too light. That flaw, which I think is his unwavering loyalty, is also his strongest quality. It both serves and abuses that which he holds most dearest. Henrietta. I have to go out on a limb and state what I believe in. Would it have been better to leave her as he found her. Broken and suicidal. If the only other option was too make her an assassin, then yes. He took something that was broken and made it into something that the corporation sees as a resource. The little girl still wants to grow up. Look at the tagline for the series.
Well, I just realized that I am preaching again. So I am going to shut up.

[Relentless]

About the Triela/Mario discussion, I'll only add this: the idea of them being related never crossed my mind. It was pretty clear, at least for me.

About the spoiler, maybe we should do like they do with other series: we have this thread with spoiler tags for general GSG discussion and we open a new thread when a new episode is available to talk about it and spoiler tags won't be necessary.

And thats why I think Rico will self destruct. She is treated as a tool and without any consideration or regard for her feelings. And I think Jan thinks Rico is considered disposable. She is a tool that when she wears out or breaks down and used up she will be disposed of like so much garbage.

Triela and especially Henrietta seem to be treated as people and not machines. I think this will be important in the long run.

On the contrary, Triela and Henrietta are the most likely to suicide, go berserk or try to escape. From one side (the Corp.), they're in constant contact with death and violence, from the other side (their brothers), they experience kindness and even love. The jarring contrast might make them go nuts at some point.

In fact, Triela rebelled against her orders in episode 4 and Henrietta disobeyed her orders too in episode 1, in both cases because their feelings were stronger than their brainwashing.

Rico has a harsh and unforgiving relation with her only human contact. She's still a sweet child and gets along well with her little girlfriends, but when the chips are down, there's no doubt whose side she will be. I see here the seeds for a future conflict that will be even more heartwrenching than anything we have seen so far. We still have to learn about Claes and Angelica, hopefully in the following episodes, and the possible road might appear more clearly.

On the long run, Rico will become completely dehumanized, and from the Corp. and Jan's viewpoint, a more effective weapon. Of course, I could also argue that Jose and Hilsher care more for their sister and might try to save them from the more dangeorus missions. Jan, being the uncaring jerk he's, probably won't care and might need "replacements" more often (the jerk!)

[Keitaro]

I find this whole show quite distrubing as I do with Noir. But this show is 10X more distrubing because of what they actually put these young girls through, it makes you think what the hell the writers/directors were thinking. But nontheless I find this show very interesting almost like watching Narutaru again.

[PocariSweat]

But nontheless I find this show very interesting almost like watching Narutaru again.

Funny now that you mention it - Narutaru was similarly compelling yet sometimes very disturbing too. I wonder if after the "Summer of ecchi" maybe we're having the "Fall of child abuse"? :heh:

[Xiandu]

I very much like this show and that got me thinking about the comments on narutaru, i have never seen that show. What's it about and is it any good? Should i download it.

[Keitaro]

I very much like this show and that got me thinking about the comments on narutaru, i have never seen that show. What's it about and is it any good? Should i download it.

Yeah go ahead and download it but I warn you, you might have some nightmares. J/k but seriously it really deals with children doing things that they shouldn't be doing or going through, much like GSG and Noir. Watching GSG reminds me of Narutaru for some reason I guess its the child abuse issue. Check out animenfo for more info.

lol a fall of child abuse, Not yet were still in the season of ecchi I think. Still alot more ecchi series coming out.

[Relentless]

happy happy! joy joy!

According to the official site, episode 5 did aired on 19th, and episode 6 is scheduled on 26th!! Hopefully we'll get back to a regular broadcasting every Wednesday!! :D

[PocariSweat]

I very much like this show and that got me thinking about the comments on narutaru, i have never seen that show. What's it about and is it any good? Should i download it.

Just to add a twist to what Keitarou20 said about it: don't be fooled by the first episode - it's not at all what it seems at first. By ep 2 you start to get a taste of what's to come, but it gets much darker as it goes on. On the bad side of things, the anime ends in the middle of the story told in the manga, and unfortunately it's probably unlikely there'll be another season.

[Xiandu]

Ok thanks. Think i will download it after i redownload shingetsutan tsukihime and download the berserk manga scanlations.

[K_R]

Hopefully we'll get back to a regular broadcasting every Wednesday!! :D

Which is actually Thursday.

[Sour-Do]

Which is actually Thursday.
You mean availability of fansubs on Thursday? Because Wednesday broadcast in Japan is never Thursday anywhere else in the world...

-- Sour-Do

[K_R]

Look at the GSG broadcast time carefully: （水）27:38. And if you can't figure it out: Wednesday 27:38, or in Western time 3:38AM Thursday. So, it would be more correct to say "In Japan a 'Wednesday' broadcast doesn't necessarily mean it's on Wednesday."

And here's something interesting, they've jumped to chapter 6 of the manga. I wonder if chapter 8 is next.

[Relentless]

Look at the GSG broadcast time carefully: （水）27:38. And if you can't figure it out: Wednesday 27:38, or in Western time 3:38AM Thursday. So, it would be more correct to say "In Japan a 'Wednesday' broadcast doesn't necessarily mean it's on Wednesday."

And here's something interesting, they've jumped to chapter 6 of the manga. I wonder if chapter 8 is next.

I only meant that we were back to weekly airings, whatever day they are. I used what the official page says, Wednesday.

I'd love that because ch. 8 is my favorite, but ch. 7 will make spec-ops fans wet their undies ;) so I wouldn't like to miss it either. From the preview in the official page, I'd say ep. 6 will adapt ch. 7, doesn't sound like ch. 8 at all. But I use Babelfish, so I might be completely off :heh:

Why would they have skipped ch. 4-5? Too strong subject? And I wonder if the American manga release is completely uncensored/unedited, does it come with an age rating?

[Sour-Do]

Look at the GSG broadcast time carefully: （水）27:38. And if you can't figure it out: Wednesday 27:38, or in Western time 3:38AM Thursday. So, it would be more correct to say "In Japan a 'Wednesday' broadcast doesn't necessarily mean it's on Wednesday."

And here's something interesting, they've jumped to chapter 6 of the manga. I wonder if chapter 8 is next.
Cool, I never thought of that. I thought that ~27:38 was the total duration from start to finish, including commercial break in between. 3:38AM is a brutal time slot. Do the station managers really expect people not to fast forward through commercials when watching video they recorded the night before? Or are anime fans in Japan fanatical enough to be awake to watch the broadcast? ... Sorry, off topic.

-- Sour-Do
AnimeMuyou!

[PocariSweat]

Or are anime fans in Japan fanatical enough to be awake to watch the broadcast?

I'm not sure why either, but lots of anime seems to be shown in the wee hours of the morning - sure beats infomercials at any rate! :)

[Keitaro]

I think because they have so much anime shows running at a time they have to squeeze some shows from midnight on.

[K_R]

I think it's just how Japanese TV programming works. It's just weird. If you take animax's programming sheet as an example: http://www.animax.co.jp/cgi-bin/find_program/program_table.cgi
You'll see that the first time is 6AM and the last is 2930 (or 530AM the following day).

And if you didn't know, animax is the 24/7 anime channel.

[Sour-Do]

I think it's just how Japanese TV programming works. It's just weird. If you take animax's programming sheet as an example: http://www.animax.co.jp/cgi-bin/find_program/program_table.cgi
You'll see that the first time is 6AM and the last is 2930 (or 530AM the following day).

And if you didn't know, animax is the 24/7 anime channel.
Are there any satellite TV providers in the San Francisco bay area that can get this animax channel? :D

-- Sour-Do
AnimeMuyou!

[skylion]

More interesting layers keep getting added to this show.

Anyone seen the new one yet?

This ep concentrates on Cleas, and we finally get to see a brief little bit of what the girls would look like if they fought one another.
the Colonel is an interesting piece or work. He didn't care at all for his charge in Cleas, only that she was a means to an end. But he did end up worrying, and possibly caring for her. Every team need a smart person, and now Cleas appears to be that part of the unit.

[wao]

I'm sure most of you know, but http://www.gunslingergirl.com/onair.html is a very helpful guide (if you know some japanese) to know spoilers for the next episode.

I'm a bad girl, I read the spoilers for every thingy... I'm going to go *TRY* translate Episode 6 blurb (BTW: The title is... gelato?!! GELATO? The... huh? The Japanese kanji, EDIT: I moved it to the spoiler section because uh... maybe.)

Gelato, huh. My brother would be happy as hell. Not like he watches these...

By the way, I'm pretty sure that the 27:38~ you see on the site is *NOT* the time. I doubt they'd employ some weird system that goes past the 24hour system. In that case they'd put Thursday instead of Wednesday, wouldn't they?

I'm very sure that's the episode length, because ~ is a kind of approximation thing, and also two eps have different ones (episode 1 is 27:48, episode 2 is 27:28, the rest are 27:38). Also explain why anyone would bother broadcasting at xx:x8. It is much more convenient to put it at a round number, like :40 or :30.


5 is already spoiled, so here's a crappily-translated blurb of 6: (or my attempt to translate SOMETHING) (Sorry if the spoiler tag is very long...)

One note: My Japanese is really bad. So I included the whatever stuff down there if anyone wants to check if I'm wrong or what.

What I translated it as:

A republic (Italy's government?) has got a plan for bomb terrorism. (I know that didn't sound right...) It is Henrietta's duty to stop it. On top of sharing Henrietta's dissatisfaction (NOTE: I'm not 100% sure about that line), Jose has [become dependant on HQ's aid/requested for HQ's aid]. Henrietta, who spilled out her dissatisfactions to Rico and Henrietta, is thinking about a reward after completing her task.

This is the Japanese:
共和国派の爆破テロ計画を阻止する任務についたヘンリエッタ。ジョゼはヘンリエッタが不満がるのが分かった 上で、本部に応援の依頼をする。リコ、トリエラを呼ばれ不満がるヘンリエッタは任務完了後のご褒美を思いつ く。
The bloody list of vocabulary. I think you can read through it and get an idea of what's going on
共和国 - republic or commonwealth
派 - faction, school
爆破 - explosion
テロ - terror, terrorism (abbr)
計画 - project, scheme, program, plan
阻止する - prevent, obstruct, hinder,
任務 - duty
ヘンリエッタ - Henrietta
ジョゼ - Jose
不満がる - feeling of dissatisfaction, unhappiness
分かった - share (past tense)
上 - on top of, above (in this context I think)
本部 - headquaters
応援 - aid, reinforcement, support
依頼 - request/commission, OR dependance
リコ - Rico
トリエラ - Triela
呼ばれ - Invite? Call out?　I dunno what form - I'm not completely sure because it doesn't seem like it's a valid verb form of 呼ぶ
完了- completion
後 - after
褒美 - reward, prize
思いつく - to think of

EDIT: The title, 報酬, is as such according to Jim Breen's WWWJDIC: 報酬 【ほうしゅう】 (n) remuneration; recompense; reward; toll ... Maybe Henrietta's reward is gelato.


Yes, I'm unecessary, but uh... try not to make me responsible for these translations o_o;;;

There are also character descriptions (http://www.gunslingergirl.com/character.html) which may spoil a little about the hcaracters.

I'm wondering why there is no episode on Angelica. I think it's because of er... great, spoiler tag again
I read on the character description page that Angelica has a weak body. Remember episode 2? Henrietta passed the girl on the wheelchair - I think it was Angelica.

[PocariSweat]

I'm sure most of you know, but
By the way, I'm pretty sure that the 27:38~ you see on the site is *NOT* the time. I doubt they'd employ some weird system that goes past the 24hour system.

Maybe they're using metric time :heh:

[K_R]

By the way, I'm pretty sure that the 27:38~ you see on the site is *NOT* the time. I doubt they'd employ some weird system that goes past the 24hour system. ... I'm very sure that's the episode length

I'll clear this up. The Japanese have a weird TV time scheduling system that starts at 6AM (with 4 timeslots: 朝, 昼, 夜, 深夜 [morning, daytime, nighttime, latenite]). So, what you get is a program schedule that goes up to "29:55", which would be 5:55AM (Animax airs Kogepan at 29:55). Depending on the station and who makes the website, you might see "27:00" or "深夜 3:00" or just "3:00", for example.

Now, on the official GSG website it has "（水）27:38" (ie. in the 深夜 timeslot), take way 24 and you get Thursday 3:38AM. Not satisfied? Then check out the time schedule for GSG on FujiTV's website: http://www.fujitv.co.jp/b_hp/gsgirl/index.html
"2003年11月27日　3:38～4:08 ＃６　報酬　gelato" (that's a Thursday).

[wao]

Thanks for clearing that up then... Damn, I wish they had good stuff like that late night here too.

Weird programmers.

[*aznplayboi*]

I Luv Girls With Guns!!!

[Relentless]

I'm a bad girl, I read the spoilers for every thingy... I'm going to go *TRY* translate Episode 6 blurb (BTW: The title is... gelato?!! GELATO? The... huh? The Japanese kanji, EDIT: I moved it to the spoiler section because uh... maybe.)

Gelato, huh. My brother would be happy as hell. Not like he watches these...

Do you realize the titles of the episodes are in Italian? :eyebrow:

I read on the character description page that Angelica has a weak body. Remember episode 2? Henrietta passed the girl on the wheelchair - I think it was Angelica.
Yes, that was Angelica. Apparently, long haired brunnettes have bad luck in the GSG universe (even worse than usual) :thinker:

[Teqi]

I've never posted before, so I'm not sure this qualifies as a "spoiler", but to avoid annoying people, i'll put it in spoiler tags... and i didn't see this subject brought up in earlier postings...


Does anyone else think that at the end of episode 2, where Jose talks to Henrietta about Orion, there might be a possibility that this is foreshadowing an instance where Henrietta may be forced to kill her "brother"?

[PocariSweat]

Does anyone else think that at the end of episode 2, where Jose talks to Henrietta about Orion, there might be a possibility that this is foreshadowing an instance where Henrietta may be forced to kill her "brother"?


Well I'm not sure, but it's the kind of situation I'd expect the show to set up. Obviously any time you have a trusting, caring relationship, expect its betrayal to be exploited for shock value later on.

I'm sure somewhere along the line the organization will eat its own - it's par for the course in this type of show - kind of like WHR.

[Flash_Squirrel]

Gelato means Ice Cream if you care...

[Relentless]

I rather expect whole fratellos turning against the organization and the girls will be forced into opposing factions.

[Lina]

I just saw episode 5...

Ugh... I don't know what's worse, being slapped around like Rico or forever being an experiment like Claes where they make you strain until you hurt yourself. That reminds me of the Holocaust experiments where they would do incredibly awful things like cutting someone's leg open and filling it with garbage just to see how it would react.

Could someone explain what happened with Claes' Brother? I didn't quite understand. Did he call that news reporter to write an article about his death so that the Society would stop tracking him?

I think my favorite character out of this series will be Triela... she's the only one who is the best at her job and she makes me feel the least sorry for her. . _ . That describes how this series makes me feel pretty well. I'm afraid what Angelica's episode might be about since in the intro she is paired with the "out of commission" Claes. I'm sure it'll be something horrible, no doubt. Just a guess.

[wao]

Do you realize the titles of the episodes are in Italian? :eyebrow:


Yeah, I do know the titles of the episodes are in italian, but usually the italian and the japanese are close to each other in meaning:

兄妹 - Brother and sister, which I believe is Fratello or close to that...
少年 - youth, usually referring to a young boy, which is close to ragazzo (boy)...
人形 - doll, which is bambola...
I could not find any matches for "orione" which is why I din't put 天体観測 down, but orione is the name of that star constellation so at least it seems closer to 天体観測 (Astronomical observation).

Gelato and reward have the least relationship to each other going by the other episode titles. That's what I mean. So I guess Henrietta can expect an ice-cream or something.

My brother was just plugging the local Gelato store to me the other day....

[K_R]

'fratello' means brother[s].

kyoudai using those kanji, specifically means older brother and younger sister ( 兄弟 for general 'siblings').

[aquilus]

Could someone explain what happened with Claes' Brother? I didn't quite understand. Did he call that news reporter to write an article about his death so that the Society would stop tracking him?
I´d think either the Society or then someone else had him killed. Given that he had contacted the reporter, probably to give him some information, the former option would seem more likely.

[Relentless]

I just saw episode 5...

I'm afraid what Angelica's episode might be about since in the intro she is paired with the "out of commission" Claes. I'm sure it'll be something horrible, no doubt. Just a guess.


On a brighter note, at least Claes is alive. They could have killed her since she doesn't have a handler anymore, like the hunting dog Jan openly thinks the girls are. I think Claes and Angelica appear together just because they are secondary characters to Henrietta, Rico and Triela. We won't get to know them too well and/or won't appear much. Five fully developed characters is too much for only 13 episodes

[wao]

'fratello' means brother[s].

kyoudai using those kanji, specifically means older brother and younger sister ( 兄弟 for general 'siblings').

You get my point in general though, don't you... All the same, I'm just being a bored nitpicker... Can't wait for a decent release of GSG #5.

I wonder if Angelica will get an ep to herself?

[K_R]

Angelica probably won't. Her chapter in the manga is short - about half the length of Claes' chapter. Unless they make up some filler, like they did with 02.

[Relentless]

Angelica probably won't. Her chapter in the manga is short - about half the length of Claes' chapter. Unless they make up some filler, like they did with 02.

You mean, Angelica's story doesn't continue in chapter 12? :eyebrow:

I say there will be an episode devoted to her. She does appear in the opening, after all.

[K_R]

My mistake, I was only looking at chapter 8. She does feature in chapters 10 and 11 as well. Plenty to make a full Angelica episode, but it won't be from one chapter as has been done with the other girls.

Chapter 8 is where she receives her AUG

[wao]

I watched Episode 5 finally...

Go highlight if you watched Ep 5...

Ok, about Rabaro, I'm not completely sure what happened to him (that's a point I like actually, it makes you think!) - do you assume that Jan was telling the truth in the first place?

I have this odd feeling that Rabaro simply moved back to the Military Police.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I never read the manga)but I think this ep jumped a little through time - it must have been at least an year since Rabaro paired with Claes...

I suppose it was enough time for Rabaro to get re-enlisted, and he finally decided to go. I think Jan lied to Claes and told her Rabaro got killed, so that she might not think that Rabaro left because he wanted to (and thus feel lonely AND betrayed instead of feeling just lonely).

Then again, is Jan the kind of person who'd care about Claes' feelings so much as to tell her a lie so that she won't be so sad? PERHAPS it could have been an order from higher up, to tell her something not-so-harsh so that she COULD still be useable and not suffer from breakdown (though in the end she still did).

It's not a very good postulation though, and on the GSG website it says 担当官は、ラバロだったが「事故」で死亡。Something like 'Although she had a caretaker called Rabaro, he died in the "accident"'. Hm...

Which might be why I think aquilus' explanation is more feasible; Rabaro gave information (probably about the Corporation) and they got him killed. This killing is probably the 'accident' they referred to - OR it might have been a real accident? I doubt that... Ruthless aren't they, killing Rabaro for leaking info despite Claes' dependance on him... but that's the way they work.

The question is then, WHY did Rabaro give information about the Corporation?

Another thing about this episode, I almost thought the girl on the wheelchair in episode 2 was Claes for a while, then I noticed that girl's shoes match Angelica's in the opening so it's probably Angelica as I thought earlier. Also Claes started wearing her spectacles full time after her breakdown I think.

The best part of this episode was when Henrietta and Claes were training. Seeing how easily Claes turned against Henrietta and how easily Henrietta turned against Rabaro but later apologized after Jose told her to... brings up a rather scary possibility in the future.

One last thing, this was on the GSG site: 淡白な性格で干渉することもされることも嫌い。 My Japanese is terrible, what does this translate to? Something about a frank character, inteference and dislike.

I suppose this is a part spoiler, its not in any of the episodes yet but it's found on the GSG website... or ify ou've read the manga I guess... or you just guessed.
It appears Angelica's trainer is the person who said "Once she is paired with a master, it can't be easily changed". I THINK he seems to be of higher standing than Jose and Jan... His name is Marco...

[Kensuke]

Finally downloaded ep. 5...

I support theory that Rabaro (correct spelling is Rabal?) was killed by Organization because of he was going to release infomation. So either way Jean didn't tell the whole truth, since it is possible that Rabaro just went back to Military Police and they didn't want to tell the truth to Claes, or they couldn't tell the truth since they were the ones who killed him.

I have to watch the episode again, but exactly why Claes killed those men in the tunnel? I didn't get it.

Henrietta almost killed a waiter in ep. 2, Rico killed that poor hotel boy in ep. 3, Triela shoot that man in ep. 4 and now we saw how easily they turned agains each other. That brings up very scary thoughts about the future indeed...

[aquilus]

Finally downloaded ep. 5...
I have to watch the episode again, but exactly why Claes killed those men in the tunnel? I didn't get it.

Didn´t you notice the knife? ;P

As for the shooting range scene, I wouldn´t think of it as an example of how easily the girls can be turned aganist each other, more as an example of their eagerness to protect their ...whatever you want to call the guys they work with ;), like in the situations Kensuke mentioned.

[Kensuke]

Yes, I noticed it, but why they send Claes there, so far there has been at least somekind of explanations about motivations, and if that was just training then why kill... Althought Rabaro tell her only to act to protec herself, but still it bothers me...

[K_R]

It appears Angelica's trainer is the person who said "Once she is paired with a master, it can't be easily changed". I THINK he seems to be of higher standing than Jose and Jan... His name is Marco...

It's not a spoiler, because this was already mentioned in episode 3. At the range, Hilsher talks to Marco about Angelica. Also, Marco is not the boss.

[wao]

Oh yeah! I completely forgot about that. :heh: Sheesh. -_-

Does Marco have any special position then? He seems to be somewhat different from the other two...

And Kensuke, I guess she had to have experiance in really killing people. I suppose those guys at the Corporation don't care about those people's lives. Or maybe there was a hidden motive.

[Go-lytely]

Yes, I noticed it, but why they send Claes there, so far there has been at least somekind of explanations about motivations, and if that was just training then why kill... Althought Rabaro tell her only to act to protec herself, but still it bothers me...

I dont see what the confusion is. Ravalo wanted to test her abilities by seeing how she dealt with the subway thugs. He said that she didn't have to kill them but could if it was necessary. Claes obviously wasn't as polished a killer as she should have been seeing as how she got stabbed and had to shoot her gun.

On an unrelated note. In Newtype it says Claes killed Ravalo and had her memory altered. I wonder if this will be revealed later or if its just in the manga.

[Relentless]

I watched Episode 5 finally...

Go highlight if you watched Ep 5...

Correct me if I'm wrong (I never read the manga)but I think this ep jumped a little through time - it must have been at least an year since Rabaro paired with Claes...

Another thing about this episode, I almost thought the girl on the wheelchair in episode 2 was Claes for a while, then I noticed that girl's shoes match Angelica's in the opening so it's probably Angelica as I thought earlier. Also Claes started wearing her spectacles full time after her breakdown I think.

The best part of this episode was when Henrietta and Claes were training. Seeing how easily Claes turned against Henrietta and how easily Henrietta turned against Rabaro but later apologized after Jose told her to... brings up a rather scary possibility in the future.



Since you like spoilers, here it goes:

In the manga, this story (chapter 6) starts with Claes doing the tests in the gym and then goes to an extended flashback, from when Marco met Jan on the bridge, until the boss and the long haired doctor are speaking in front of Claes (who was NOT in a wheelchair), weith all events in the same order as in the anime. Then we get back to current time and Claes wakes up crying in Marco's bed, where she has fallen asleep reading a book. Then she meets Henrietta (who was playing with the Christmas gift Jose gave her in chapter 4) and both go the garden, and it ends. BTW, chapter 4-5 seems to have been skipped (rats!)

You can be sure the girl Henrietta sees in ep.2 is Angelica, just notice her ribbon.

I know it's extremely insensitive since the scene at the range illustrates how badly those girls have been screwed up, both psychically and emotionally, with the Corp.'s brainwashing, but I still chuckled at the sight of a pissed-off little Henrietta hefting a heavy bench and ready to whack Marco on the head. The exact moment was better presented in the manga: Marco and Jose were in the center, Marco had his back turned toward Henrietta and Claes was behind Jose, facing Marco.


It's not a spoiler, because this was already mentioned in episode 3. At the range, Hilsher talks to Marco about Angelica. Also, Marco is not the boss.

When was that? According to ANBU's version, Marco only mentions that Angelica has problems with her body and he's giving her some time to rest.

I wonder if instead of Rabaro or Ravalo, the authors meant "Navarro", which is a common Italian name (unlike the former).

It's easy to get confused when there're only two faces for the grownups: Marco-type and Jose-type. Let's see: Marco has a goatee and glasses, the doctor has a goatee but no glasses, and the boss uses glasses but has no goatee :heh: Fortunately, Navarro (or Ravalo, whatever) uses a cane and is going bald, so he was easy to tell apart.

[K_R]

Well, at the range you have Jean/Rico, Hilsher/Triela and Jose/Henrietta. Spot the trend?
Also, when Marco is making fun of Hilsher for being a miserable brother, Hilsher replies with:
君こそアンゲリカ？ (anime)
If Marco was the boss, or someone unrelated to Angelica, Hilsher would not start his reply with, "and what about you?", when the topic is brother/sister pairs.

For reference, in the manga its
君こそ自分の「妹」は？
Even without the more obvious wording of the manga, there are enough hints there to tell you who Marco is paired with.

[Relentless]

Well, at the range you have Jean/Rico, Hilsher/Triela and Jose/Henrietta. Spot the trend?
Also, when Marco is making fun of Hilsher for being a miserable brother, Hilsher replies with:
君こそアンゲリカ？ (anime)
If Marco was the boss, or someone unrelated to Angelica, Hilsher would not start his reply with, "and what about you?", when the topic is brother/sister pairs.

For reference, in the manga its
君こそ自分の「妹」は？
Even without the more obvious wording of the manga, there are enough hints there to tell you who Marco is paired with.

No, I meant when did Marco say "Once she is paired with a master, it can't be easily changed"?

I know Marco is not the Boss, If somebody has (apparently) a higher rank than the other guys, it should be Jan. He's always present at the boss' office when there's discussion about any of the girls, like if he's responsible for the whole fratello corps.

[K_R]

Oh that. The boss is the man who says that line and I was pointing out that Marco isn't the boss, and that we already know that Marco and Angelica are a fratello, so it's not a spoiler.

[Kokushi_Musou]

One last thing, this was on the GSG site: 淡白な性格で干渉することもされることも嫌い。 My Japanese is terrible, what does this translate to? Something about a frank character, inteference and dislike.


Basically it means that she's easy going but doesn't like people interfering with her business and won't interfere with others' business....I'm sure there was a better way to say that but...bleh

[FlyByNite]

This series is good, but man. You can get hella depressed watching some of these episodes.

Episode 5 I thought they were going to have Claes assassinate Raballo, that would have been nasty. I don't think they did since Jan told her he had died and she didn't know what was going on. Although maybe she did it, then they brainwashed her, then they told her? But then that would make no sense since they brainwashed her *AGAIN* then to take away the memory of him.

So I think we'd safely assume that Claes wasn't the one who killed him for speaking to a reporter. Poor Claes, now her life consists of being a guinea pig in the lab and working out until an arm or leg breaks then getting a new one in surgery and repeating the process over and over until she dies.

Jeez.

[Relentless]

Finally, I watched ep.5 and my preliminary opinion is


it's the saddest episode ever. It was so full of disturbing moments: at the firing range, at the subway, at the boss' office where they ignored Claes like some object. I don't know how much more I can take :sad:

There were also a few beatifully quiet and contemplative moments, like the fishing scenes and the parking lot scene. My favorite was that exact moment when you can tell Raballo realized Claes was more important than his dream of getting back his job.

Claes' fate is so cruel and cold. In some ways, it was probably the best story so far, so moving yet it defies easy sentimentalism. Does anybody think Claes would like to be pitied?
Her life is full of loneliness and pointless pain, and she definitively considers it worth living. Probably, she doesn't have hopes of happier times or any betterment of her condition, but thanks to Raballo, she lives one day at a time. Today, I witnesseed that courage has a girl's name :bow:

[*aznplayboi*]

ummm...lol...before i ask my question...how do i add a spoiler tag?

[Keitaro]

ummm...lol...before i ask my question...how do i add a spoiler tag?

[Spoiler]message here[/Spoiler ] without the space of course

[wao]

[ spoiler]Insert spoiler here[/spoiler]

Of course just leave out the space in [spoiler].

I think GSG #6 has aired by now - let's go see if #7's spoiler is up.

EDIT: Hasn't yet.......... hm..... I really hope they don't push this to next week again.

[drvtech]

[ spoiler]Insert spoiler here[/spoiler]

Of course just leave out the space in [spoiler].

I think GSG #6 has aired by now - let's go see if #7's spoiler is up.

EDIT: Hasn't yet.......... hm..... I really hope they don't push this to next week again.

Wee ep 6...ice cream and rewards!

^_^.

[Grissom]

you are lucy that have seen gunslinger girl 6, i havent seen 3 yet.

[Grissom]

is 3-4-5-6 any good episos??

[*aznplayboi*]

thanx..uh anyway........ I didn't really get Claes's episode. Is she stronger than average in her arms or weaker, and her little speech at the end of the episode...is she just a useless girl (for fighting) hanging around?
Also...this series is kinda depressing, but its awesome too.

[Grissom]

you are lucky that have seen ep 3 and 4 i havent seen ep 3 yet. is the episods good??

[*aznplayboi*]

well actually..i didnt understand the whole episode...heh... Ya the series is really good...but its kinda slow.

[wao]

I liked Episode 4 the best so far...

Anyway, to aznplayboi, about ep 5:

She's no good at fighting any more, but we don't know what's up with her arms I think. They're just being tested on - so they're probably injecting beta versions of some drug or the other, or SOMETHING. The point is, she can't fight any more. She would have been disposed of if it wasn't for the labs wanting to use her for experiments.

[JacobM5727]

i just got all 5 available eps of this show, and must say - its very good
i dislike the jan character, and hope rico turns on him at some point - soon
the music is good in this anime as well - the ending is different from things i have heard before.. gotta love the english/japanese/italian (?) mixing throughout :)..

i was hesitant to get this at first, since the concept originally seemed cheesy, but i am glad i decided to - they went about it in a way to make it very good

[Grissom]

my avoritt episod is number 2. i like henrietta , fore she have my favoritt gun p90. who do you like??

[wao]

Yooooo~!!

Episode 7 preview is out.


Episode name is protezione in Italian (EDIT: According to FlashSquirrel, (thank you Flash) it means protection. Whee.)
守護 in Japanese - or Protection/safeguard

富豪ピリアッツイの会計士を務めていたフィリッポ・アダーニは脱税とテロリストへの資金提供の事実を知り、 帳簿を持って逃げていた。化粧品会社の営業マンに扮したジャンとその妹：リコは偶然を装いフィリッポに近づ きフィレンツェを案内してもらうのだった.

Ok, let's see: Millionaire Piriazzi (? I dunno - the katakana reads Piriattsui)'s accountant, Philippo Adari runs away with his account book after finding out Piriazzi has been involved in tax evasion and funding terrorism. (Uhuh?!)
Then something about Jan pretending to be the business manager of a cosmetics company. *And then Rico pretends to be an "accidental" acquaintence (I'm thinking something like she bumps into him and says "hi" and chats him up kind of) of Philippo in order to get a lead/get information on a certain Florence.*

** -> I'm not very sure on this, my Japanese sucks remember. ;P All the nis and wos and such...
Perhaps this mission involves protecting something or someone. Yeah.

Here's a small pic (click if you want) (http://www.gunslingergirl.com/onair/06.jpg) from Episode 6 (found on the GSG site) .. I haven't watched it yet, can't wait to watch it :) (highlight below if you saw the pic. not really spoiling anything)
That's Henrietta if I'm not wrong, and obviously she's in bed, er, she looks scared of something. I dunno.

[K_R]

wao, why don't you just buy the manga (for chapters 1-11) and pick up dengeki daiou (chapters 12-14)? You seem to like spoilers. That way you don't have to wait for the next episode preview to show up.

[wao]

If only I knew where to get it other than online (too young to have a credit card, and like hell my parents would let me use theirs which they don't use very often either.)

Unless Kinokuniya has it... (Dengeki Daiou that is - I went recently and didn't see Gunslinger Girl anywhere. Heck, I can't even find SaiKano. Pointless... They do have some Japanese mags though, like Shounen Jump etc.)... forget that. :P

And I doubt it's out in Chinese to be out in the other manga stores...

[Relentless]

well actually..i didnt understand the whole episode...heh... Ya the series is really good...but its kinda slow.


Claes is no longer useful for field operations or fighting because her "handler" (trainer, big broher, etc) is dead and she won't obey anybody else. More exactly, she won't bond with anybody else and thus, won't be useful in the field. The boss said so when they were damning poor Claus to a life as a guinea pig.

She shoudn't be stronger or weaker than any of the girls. It's just that the dr. Mengele-wannabe (long hair, glasses) asked her to pull with all her strenght. It seems the girls' cyborg body has muscles more powerful than their joints.

Claes learnt from Raballo to enjoy the quiet moments of life. She has the books and the memory of the person she considers a father. Even if she is alone, or in pain, she'll keep going on and won't mind whatever other people think of her or ask her to do.

[lavarock]

The seichi release has the gun info... But since you're unlikely to get our version, I'll post the info here. Gun info is only provided for weapons that have been fired. This is the info as they appear in the pre-episode notes.

Henrietta:
Fabrique Nationale P90
Caliber: 5.7x28mm SS190
Operation: Blowback, closed breech; select fire
Magazine Capacity: 50 rounds
Weight: 3 kg (6.6 lbs)
Overall length : 500mm (19.7")
Barrel length: 263 mm (10.3")
Rate of fire: 900 RPM (max)
Effective range: 200 meters

The FN P90 was designed in the 1980s around a NATO research
contract for a weapon system with a compact design and body
armour penetration capabilities.

The P90 was initially intended as a compact weapon for army
personnel whose duties do not require the use of assault rifles - tank crews, artillery crews, etc.
But due to its
compact design, high accuracy and high armour penetration,
it has become popular amongst special operations units and law
enforcement agencies around the World.

Its advantages over its counterparts include:
Completely ambidextrous,
Downward ejection system (empty casing cannot interfere with the user),
The SS190 ammuntion...


5.7x28mm SS190

Bullet Type: FMJ - Standard Ball
Length: 40.5 mm (1.59")
Cartridge Weight: 6g (93 gr.)
Weight of Projectile: 2.02g (31 gr.)
Muzzle Velocity: 715 m/s (2,346 fps)

The 5.7x28mm SS190 ammunition has been designed to bridge the gap between the 9mm ammunition and the 5.56 x 45mm. The 9mm FMJ round will not penetrate modern body armor and the 5.56mm (.223 Rem.) rifle ammunition creates over-penetration concerns in a close combat situation or urban warfare.

The SS190 has unique design, utilizing two metal inserts. The tip of the ogive has a steel penetrator followed by an aluminum core that is heavier than the forward tip. This causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue after 2 inches of penetration. This design virtually eliminates the risk of over penetration. This also creates a large wound cavity and quick incapacitation.

The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters when fired from the P90. The 5.7 ammunition has only 60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm. The muzzle velocity of the SS190 is 2,346fps when fired from the P90.

--

Rico:

Israel Military Industries Galil MAR
Caliber: 5.56 x 45mm M855, SS109
Operation: Gas operated, rotating bolt; select fire
Magazine Capacity: 35 rounds
Weight: 2.98 kg (6.6 lbs)
Overall length : 710mm (28")
Barrel length: 195mm (7.7")
Rate of fire: 700 RPM (max)
Effective range: 300 meters

The IMI Galil Micro Assault Rifle is the newest and smallest
member of the Galil family. It was introduced in the early
1990s with the same NATO design objectives as the FN P90;
a compact weapon with body armour penetration capabilities.

The Galil MAR never saw the expected mass adoption into the
Israeli Defense Force due to a design flaw in the handguards -
during full-auto and rapid semi-auto firing, the handguards would
heat up to the point that it became impossible to hold the weapon.

In 200 a revised Galil MAR was introduced. The major changes are:
improved heat-absorbing handguards and new light-weight fiber
stock. Optional extra is a M1913 rail on the receiver - on which
Rico's MAR has the Trijicon ACOG Reflex sight attached.


Ceská Zbrojovka Models 75
Caliber: 9x19mm Parabellum
Operation: Tilting barrel, locked breech; semi-automatic
Trigger Mechanism: Double action or single action
Magazine Capacity: 16 rounds, double stacked
Weight: 1.0 kg (2.2 lbs)
Overall length : 206mm (8.1")
Barrel length: 120mm (4.7")

First produced in 1975, the CZ75 is a Czechoslovakian designed handgun that can be carried cocked-and-locked. "Cocked-and-locked" refers to having a round chambered with the hammer cocked, and the safety on. This carry method allows the gun to be brought into action quickly and smoothly.

The CZ75 is chambered for the 9mm Luger/Parabellum (9mmL) cartridge which was unusual because the 9mm is a NATO cartridge, and NATO was considered to be the enemy of Czechoslovakia which was under the Warsaw Pact at the time. It is surmised that the CZ75 was used by special agents who were trained to work behind enemy lines, and thus it was fitting to have a gun that would use enemy ammunition instead of domestic cartridges.

Ironically, the CZ75 is a much better gun than the one that was issued to the Czechoslovakian army.


Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova
(Sniper Rifle Dragunov)
Caliber: Russian 7.62x54mm Rimmed
Operation: Gas operated, short stroke, rotating bolt; semi-automatic
Capacity: 10 rounds
Weight: 4.31kg (9.5lbs)
Overall Length: 1225mm (48.2")
Barrel Length: 620mm (24.4")
Rate of Fire: 30 RPM (max)
Scope Type: PSO-1

Designed by Yevgeniy Feodorovich Dragunov between 1958 and
1962, the SVD was the first Russian rifle exclusively designed
from scratch as a sniper rifle, to replace the SVT-40 sniper rifle.

Its maximum effective range is 1300m with the PSO-1 or 800m
without it. The PSO-1 optical sight has a 6-degree field of view.
It contains an integral infrared detection aid and an illuminated
rangefinder recticle. Thus, the SVD is effective in daylight against
point targets or at night against active infrared emitters.

The SVD can fire light ball, heavy ball, steel core, tracer and
anti-tank incendiary ammunition.

--

Triela:

Heckler & Koch G3A3
Caliber: 7.62 x 51mm NATO
Operation: Roller-locked delayed blowback; select fire
Magazine Capacity: 20 rounds
Weight: 4.4 kg (9.7 lbs)
Overall length : 1025mm (40.3")
Barrel length: 450mm (17.3")
Rate of fire: 550 RPM (max)
Effective range: 600 meters

The G3 is the standard rifle of the Deutsche Bundeswehr (German Army). It is the weapon that put the fledgling HK on the map - former Mauser engineers worked to come up with a design that would supercede the G1, essentially an FN FAL rifle, since Fabrique Nationale would not license Germany to produce it.

The West German Army adopted the G3 (Gewehr 3) rifle in 1959. As many as 50 nations have since adopted the G3 as their standard infantry arm. Though now superceded in Germany by the new G36, the G3 will continue to see service worldwide for some time.

Unlike the other G3 variants, which have folding or retractable
stocks, the A3 is equipped with a fixed polymer stock.

All G3s suffer from heaviness and excessive recoil of the 7.62 x 51 cartridge in automatic fire.

-----


Nice stuff, now you make me want to get the seichi release:P

[wao]

Nice stuff, now you make me want to get the seichi release:P


Dude.. you didn't need to quote the entire post. ;_;

As usual I'll get the first release first, and then look out for a better one if it comes out...

For anyone who's read the manga, why is Angelica still kept around despite the way she is? (You know what I mean)

[Xiandu]

I really like this series. It is very depressing yes but, it also makes you very emotional. For me when i see something that invokes such emotion it makes me sad or depressed at first but then over a little time it makes me very excited because not a lot of things can bring out your emotions like that. It shows how good this anime is and that makes me happy.

I believe that Claes did not kill Rivalbo(spellings off sorry) but, that the corporation did however. Reason being that you saw him realize that what was going on with these little girls was wrong. So he was going to come forward with the information on what this corporation was doing. Then they came up with that cockamamy story about the accident so that it wasn't so hard on Claes that way they could still use her. Of course it still backfired. My logic in that is because Jan really sounded pissed that she was not usuable anymore. He didn't want to waste another speciman because they are not easy to come by. It is also why they agreed to let that hippy looking doctor take her for the experiments. So her "project" was not a lost cause completely.

[aquilus]

Precisely ;P

[lavarock]

I believe that Claes did not kill Rivalbo(spellings off sorry) but, that the corporation did however. Reason being that you saw him realize that what was going on with these little girls was wrong. So he was going to come forward with the information on what this corporation was doing. Then they came up with that cockamamy story about the accident so that it wasn't so hard on Claes that way they could still use her. Of course it still backfired. My logic in that is because Jan really sounded pissed that she was not usuable anymore. He didn't want to waste another speciman because they are not easy to come by. It is also why they agreed to let that hippy looking doctor take her for the experiments. So her "project" was not a lost cause completely.

Think that's what happened, the carelessness of that Jounalist caused Rivalbo's life

wao: yes i should have cut the quote short....

[drvtech]

What each title episode title is, it is in italian with it's jpn equivalent in kanji.

Ep1: it: fratello = brothers
jp: kyoudai = older brother and younger sister in this case

Ep2: it: orione = Orion the star or Orion the constellation
jp: tentaikansoku = astronomical observation

Ep3: it: ragazzo = young boy
jp: shounen = young boy or boys

Ep4: it: bambola = doll or puppet
jp: ningyou = doll or puppet

Ep5: it: promessa = promise
jp: yakusoku = promise

Ep6: it: gelato = ice cream
jp: houshuu = reward, recompense

Ep7: it: protezion = protection
jp: shugo = protection

In case anyone wanted to know.

[corp20]

I just got around to watching 1-6 today. Since 3 toke so long to download :(
So far I like the series. Really sad and depressing. I had to watch Full Metal Panic fumoffu afterwards so I wouldn't feel so bad.

[Xiandu]

Funny you bring up fumoffu because right now i am downloading so many serious or sad anime that i decided to dl fumoffu. I waited this long to do it because i haven't finished the fmp season1 and was sure if fumoffu would ruin it. But luckily i found that fumoffu won't ruin season1 for me=). So i will begin to watch it soon. Ep15 going to be finished within the hour wooo!

[corp20]

Funny you bring up fumoffu because right now i am downloading so many serious or sad anime that i decided to dl fumoffu. I waited this long to do it because i haven't finished the fmp season1 and was sure if fumoffu would ruin it. But luckily i found that fumoffu won't ruin season1 for me=). So i will begin to watch it soon. Ep15 going to be finished within the hour wooo!

I'm in bit torrent hell. It takes so long to get them. I'm on eps 8. IAnd I too didn't watch all of the first series of fmp. I only watched 2 random eps and the only draw back of watching fimoffu is that you don't know the characters.

[Xiandu]

Really?! Fumoffu has been downloading so fast for me? Who are you getting yours from? I got mine from Akeep and i was getting no less that 54kb a sec for each download. Most of the time it was in the 80's range.

I really can't wait to see more of this series. It has been soo sad but so damn good. To think i wasn't going to give this anime the time of day when it first came out. Good thing for anime forurms.

[corp20]

Really?! Fumoffu has been downloading so fast for me? Who are you getting yours from? I got mine from Akeep and i was getting no less that 54kb a sec for each download. Most of the time it was in the 80's range.

I really can't wait to see more of this series. It has been soo sad but so damn good. To think i wasn't going to give this anime the time of day when it first came out. Good thing for anime forurms.
Bastard!!! So I wont feel so bad whats your connection and speed. :)

[Xiandu]

I'm not really sure what my connection speed is. It's under my roommates name, but i do know that it is the second highest speed that our company offers. So if anyone knows about speeds you might be able to figure it out for me. Luckily my roommate was able to figure out our router because it wasn't giving us good speeds for quite a while. It has to do with the TCP and 6881-6889 channels or whatnot. Now we get pretty good speeds for downloading.

[Mechazawa-kun]

All the gunslinger girl ANBU trackers seem to be down, since yesterday afternoon. anyone else noticing this or is it just me that cant connect to the tracker?

[Xiandu]

It seems that it is just you that can't connect to the tracker. I used animesuki.com and was able to dl if i wanted to. I used Triad though for my release. You might want to try again or if that doesn't work then try another group. Triad or Seichi are pretty good.

[ky_khor]

i only watch ep1 and started to like the series....
it is so artistic.

pls dominate it to Oscar award....... :P

i like anime that deep enough like evangelion, serial experiment lain......

any other great anime like this one for me?

[Timon]

darn, so it stays pretty episodic?

I've been enjoying it so far, but to give it some overlying plot would take it up a notch, like Vash and Knives in Trigun, or Spike and Vicious in Cowboy Bebop. If you took out those story arcs (which drive the point of the series), they woulda just been kinda mundane.

Especially with that opening song, it really makes you feel like hanging on that thin strand of hope that ONE DAY things will be better for all of them.

'course, whatever would have to happen for everything to end well would be pretty complicated. Even if it just ends semi well, since you can't really change the past, but at least give the girls the chance to make a future for themselves, instead of just ending it with most of them dead or locked in some psycho ward (though with their strength, I guess you couldn't really hold them, so they all would have to die... but some can still go psycho (errr... more psycho?) first.

Then again, a good ending might not be so hard. Alls that would have to be developed would be some independed thinking in the girls (Triela already showed that) and that they have some... morals, I guess (common, shooting an innocent kid with just a "sorry").

Anyway, everyone knows that anyone who thinks along "means justifying the ends" eventually gets it at the end, but then again you actually start to care about some of the "brothers". That's another thing that complicates the series, no clear good or bad guys. Even the Republicans... that bomb making couple talks about how it's people like Henrietta (thinking her just to be an ordinary little girl) that they are working to protect. And the organization and girls are used to kill that politician to frame the Republicans. The politics in this world still escape me really.

Ah, wouldn't it be wonderful if it ends with most everyone being redeemed? Hell, it could end like End of Evangelion and I would be happy.
But first it needs a plot.

[abubo]

I must say I am hooked now. I didn't think I'll like it cus I didn't like NOIR that much, but I find this to be much deeper than NOIR. Those girls just somehow get to you... I don't know, you just want them to be okay at the end, even though they are cybernetic killing machines with super-human strength and no sense of pain.

*Minor spoiler alert*




I'm not sure why but when Henrietta mentioned nonchalantly that she no longer has a uterus, it just made me so emotional. Eventhough the series is trying to paint these so called brothers in good light, I think all of them are big time bastards for allowing this to happen (except ex-military guy, u know who I mean).

I will definately follow this serie to the end. Although the chance of happy ending is nearly nil, I still have my hope that the girls will find a normal life after-all.

The OP is such a killer; already bought the Delgado's CD "Hate". The art is superb with careful attention to detail in every way, from daily lives of Italians to the depiction of the weaponry. Can any Italians here tell us how accurate the series has been for you guys? Or just how you folks feel about an anime taking place entirely in Italy?

[Relentless]

Episode 8 just aired, and guess what? Episode 9 will air on Jan. 14th !! Aaaggh!, what the hell they were thinking? No new episode on Dec. 24th or 31st is unfortunate but understandable, but *another week* too? I'm both sad and pissed off. They better spend this whole month not in vacation but working in the anime and release the remaining episodes timely and with great animation, dammit.

[K_R]

And I have yet to see a DVD release date =/

[CompShrink]

Wow, totan's gonna have a lot of free time... <.<

This sucks... (I heard a little while ago from someone else in totan, but i'm still pissed now...)

[Shii]

A Christmas vacation for all GSG sub groups!

I only watch it when I feel like it anyway, so I'm not bothered. Although I've finished through 7 and I wish Seichi would release 8 ^^;

[drvtech]

Since it's nearly Christmas, most of Seichi's staff has gone home and are either enjoying their short vacation or trying to help out with dial-up. We're working to get 8 done ASAP, but remember that Christmas is nearly here and it may/may not take a while.

[bOcyOgl]

some wallpapers and sketches

01 (http://home.kimo.com.tw/jgu_one/CG/Gunslinger%20girl01.htm)
02 (http://home.kimo.com.tw/jgu_one/CG/Gunslinger%20girl02.htm)
03 (http://home.kimo.com.tw/jgu_one/CG/Gunslinger%20girl03.htm)

courtesy of Joji

[abubo]

Thanks for the wallpaper links. It maybe time for me to swap my background... :)

You guys ever try to read the Italian anime boards on how they feel about Gunslinger Girls? It was quite funny... one guy was saying how much they glorify Italian cities (I guess he meant it wasn't that pretty), and one other dude was very happy that the place he was born was feature in one of the episodes. What cracked me up was one dude was bitching about that the rest of the world thinks "Italians=Mafia=Killers" :). It was quite an interesting read... hope he feels better now that we know the CORP is made up of Spanish, French, and Russian killers. Over all they seemed to be very impressed with the level of accurate detail. I'm almost willing to bet the production team spend a lot of time in Italy making schetches, etc, kinda given it the "Onegai Teacher/Twins" treatment.

[K_R]

The sketches are interesting. Especially the two new girls. I wonder if they'll make an appearance in the anime.

[FlyByNite]

Petra looks like someone you don't wanna mess with. (from the sketches)

[stormy001_M1A2]

The sketches are interesting. Especially the two new girls. I wonder if they'll make an appearance in the anime.

One of them did, Elsa is the dead girl. Half of her head is blown away by a high powered rifle round whereas her instructor also got his brain splattered. It is in manga vol 1, chapter 4 or 5 I think.

This is why I said I hope the anime will talk about this ill fated fratello. It could be the key to the whole story,

[abubo]

Hmm, not familiar with the origin of GSG. Did the story started out as a Doujinshi?

[Wandering_Youth]

Actually, I'm finding this show pretty painful to watch. It's not the quality of the show - it's just the situation it places these kids in just seems so utterly unconscionable. It's almost like saying reality isn't cruel enough already, so we're going to try and make a show as gut wrenchingly brutal and heartless as possible. Seems like the writers were just told "take the most innocent characters you can come up with and run them through a physical and emotional meat grinder". I surprised they don't have an episode where the kids are forced to kill puppies and kittens ...or each-other (but, heh I kind of expect that's comming down the pike).


I find this whole show quite disturbing as I do with Noir. But this show is 10X more disturbing because of what they actually put these young girls through, it makes you think what the hell the writers/directors were thinking. But nonetheless I find this show very interesting almost like watching Narutaru again.

I was just browsing through my latest game magazine and I found an ad for the GSG manga. I read the story description written on the ad and I was shocked to hear that this Agency is brainwashing poor little orphan girls to do their dirty work. :twitch: That is just wrong!! :bash: Now after reading through some of the posts, Pocari and Kei have pretty much said what I wanted to say even though I haven't even seen the anime yet. I have watched Noir, but that I never found it disturbing at all. I actually found Noir to be quite boring and all. I'm going to download the first episode just to see how disturbing it is. I'm really not into these animes, but the character art looked rather good.

Edit: Lol! I never imagined the girls to look so young and be wielding deadly guns. The wallpapers sure blow my mind. It's just not right I tell you!

[bOcyOgl]

1)The girls were living happily before their families were totally destroyed and they were being raped continuously.

2)Those chosen were given brainwash treatment+body enhancement and military training to kill for the agency.

Now which is more sad? the first part or the 2nd part?

The brainwash treatment let them forgot what happened to them before.. but they became killing dolls

[Wandering_Youth]

After watching the first episode it doesn't seem all that bad, and like I said earlier I didn't watch it yet when I posted my first post on this thread so don't butcher me. :uhoh: It was just my initial impression of it. The girls don't look THAT emotionless and Jose seems like a nice guy. Stupid ad left out the raping part, go figure. I'm surprised the Adv licensed the manga at all. :heh:

[*aznplayboi*]

man some ppl are mean about this series...i posted a comment about how i didnt lyke one of the episodes and everbody said stuff lyke, 'dont watch it or live with it'. GRRRR

[Lain]

*sigh* Something is definetly wrong with me, or I wouldn't enjoy images of little girls with freakin' big guns this much.

[abubo]

Hmm... I'm not into guns and I don't particularly enjoy watching pre-teen girls using them, but I do enjoy the series. I watch it cus I love the psychological dimensions the writers focuses on, and I'd want to know how they'll end it.

[Lain]

I'm counting on some deaths on the side of the girls eventualy. I mean, it's tragic, so how can they resist doing it?

[Relentless]

I'm not into guns either, and I don't watch GSG for the action scenes, althought I do appreciate them, specially episodes 1-4. After that, the pacing of the action was not that good.

What I do like about GSG are the characters and their interrelationships. It's a sad and tragic story, as sad as SaiKano at least, and it has a good deal of quiet, beautiful moments, some of them happy, some of them sad.

My favorite scene, sadly, was not animated (manga chapter 8). Chapters 4 and 5, skipped too, had very nice scenes between Jose and Henrietta :sad:

Other favorite moments are:

*Minor spoilers for episodes 1-7*



*Ep. 3, when the girls are chatting in the roof
*Ep. 3, the violin scene
*Ep. 4, both Henrietta and Triela scenes at the beginning
*Ep. 4, Triela's chat with Mario and then Hilsher at the end
*Ep. 2, Jose and Henrietta in the roof
*Ep. 5, Claes and Raballo fishing
*Ep. 3, Rico's monologue at the end
*Ep. 3, Rico and Emilio *cries*
*Ep. 5, Claes and Raballo's final chat
*Ep. 5, Claes and Henrietta scene
*Ep. 7, pretty much all Rico's scenes :D
*Ep. 6, Henrietta and the blonde lady at the end
*Ep. 6, the guy from the Roma division patting Henrietta

And while I acknowledge it's a tragic moment that underscores how badly these girls have been wronged, how badly disfunctional the Corp. has made them; I still think the firing range incident in ep. 5 is pretty amusing. And I'd pay good money for a close up of Triela's face when Hilsher asked her to go shopping :heh:

To each his/her/its own. If you want to get a kick out of young gun toting girls graphically slaughtering everyone in sight, so be it. Personally, I watch it for the story and characters.

[lavarock]

Who has Woke from Dreaming Lyrics? I love that song!

[Lain]

Heh, Relentless, you got me all wrong. It is preciesly BECAUSE of the story and characters that the action is so much more enjoyable. I mean, I feel completely diffirent things when one of the Girls, which have clearly intentionaly been shaped to symbolise purity and innocence in all it's forms, wreck bloody and mercyless hell on a group of people, as opposed to some super-superman hero guy.

The action bits are esential, since they give a strong underscore to the entire theme.

[JBr]

lavarock: Enjoy... :)

http://www.delgados.co.uk/archive_lyrics_woke.htm

[lavarock]

Thanks a lot:D

[Timon]

Ah yes, the guns and little girls thing is exactly what put me off to the series when I first heard about and then didn't bother to look back at until late last month.
It isn't why I continued to watch it past the first ep either.

What did get me hooked are the themes, I guess, of the show.

Childhood developement, right and wrong, means justifying the ends, flawed and tortured characters overcoming their traumas and becoming something greater, free will, and stuff like that. Is there hope at the end of the tunnel? No matter how bad things may seem? (No. *bam! bullet to the head* "The End" /cry)

It's just like any form of communication really. You have your ideas and opinions and certain issues, the people who make the show have theirs. The show is presented, and viewers are left to discuss! The ability for the show to make that happen is what makes it good, it's not mindless, unless the story ends up not going anywhere.

The issues are really important things. Besides the unrealistic technology (the robotic/enhanced bodies) the show's premise isn't too much of a leap from reality. Tons of real young little girls whose lives are already completely f'd up. If you had the ability to play god, what would you do?

[Mistwrath]

Well, I like guns and action, so when it first came out, this anime series quite attracted me. And as the show went on, the plot and storyline impressed me quite some.

The lifestyles of the girls, the mentality, the various ways that their trainers treat them as who they are and stuff.

[Relentless]

Heh, Relentless, you got me all wrong. It is preciesly BECAUSE of the story and characters that the action is so much more enjoyable. I mean, I feel completely diffirent things when one of the Girls, which have clearly intentionaly been shaped to symbolise purity and innocence in all it's forms, wreck bloody and mercyless hell on a group of people, as opposed to some super-superman hero guy.

The action bits are esential, since they give a strong underscore to the entire theme.

I'm sorry if it looked otherwise, but I was not singling out anybody. Everybody likes whatever they like for whatever reasons. I was just stating my case.

So, what are your favorite GSG scenes?

[*aznplayboi*]

man i LOVE little girls with fat-ass guns...its the greatest combonation!

[Teh Roman Helmet]

I watched the first episode GG and I thought it looked kinda stupid. No offense to anybody that likes it btw. It's just that little girls weilding big guns looks weird to me. Should I watch some more of it? Is it worth watching even. The premise just seems to out there for me.

[Go-lytely]

I watched the first episode GG and I thought it looked kinda stupid. No offense to anybody that likes it btw. It's just that little girls weilding big guns looks weird to me. Should I watch some more of it? Is it worth watching even. The premise just seems to out there for me.

Well if you dont like little girls with guns then I wouldnt bother watching any more then because its just more of the same. Its the only reason I watch the show actually.

[*aznplayboi*]

I watched the first episode GG and I thought it looked kinda stupid. No offense to anybody that likes it btw. It's just that little girls weilding big guns looks weird to me. Should I watch some more of it? Is it worth watching even. The premise just seems to out there for me.


:twitch: you dont lyke little girls with guns!!! how dare you...jk. The whole thing is girls with guns...if you think thats stupid...uh, you shouldnt bother...but i think its really good....

[ky_khor]

they should team-up and kill the entire organisation

triela - leader
cleas - set strategy
henrietta - assault
rico - sniper/backup
angelica - give her a gun then throw her into the battlefield, she will fought well although she forget why she fought



i like henrietta bcoz she can play violin

[Lain]

I watched the first episode GG and I thought it looked kinda stupid. No offense to anybody that likes it btw. It's just that little girls weilding big guns looks weird to me. Should I watch some more of it? Is it worth watching even. The premise just seems to out there for me.

No, you shouldn't. There's no point in watching an anime if you can't buy the basic premise. That's what ruined NGE for me. I couldn't buy that anyone would ever entrust Shinji with anything more powerful than a fork.

[IPv6]

I downloaded the last GG epi and didn't watch it for two weeks. This show is boring as hell but I still watch it to kill time.

[Lord Raiden]

Boring??? What's so boring about a bunch of 10-14 year old girls packing heat?? :D

How many other shows do you see that you actually have to fear the girl in pigtails standing next to you? ^_^ Plus that irony adds some humor to the show from my perspective. I mean seriously. How often do you see a 10 year old girl cleaning a Glok 9mm while discussing what they did in school today? :D

[kj1980]

non-Japanese still have yet to understand the "moe~" mentality.

[Wandering_Youth]

non-Japanese still have yet to understand the "moe~" mentality.
What is this "moe mentality" you speak of?

[kj1980]

What is this "moe mentality" you speak of?

Something that cannot be explained...something that you need to realize yourself...something that is unique to Japanese otaku culture

Similar mentalities include "XX-tan ha-ha-" with XX replaced for your "moe~" character

[Shii]

Something that cannot be explained...something that you need to realize yourself...something that is unique to Japanese otaku culture
Well, that's not the definition... uh, you're right in that it's hard to define. On 4chan, an American haven of Japanese culture, it is described as "lolicon".

(This is also a bump for the upcoming GSG episode.)

[[maven]]

What is this "moe mentality" you speak of?

Watch the introduction of Miyuki's fansub of Comic Party Revolution 01 to find out... kinda ;)

[kj1980]

The Japanese online dictionary, goo (http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search....8%A4%A8&kind=jn) defines "moe" as:

もえ 【萌え】

ある人物やものに対して，深い思い込みを抱くようす。その対象は実在するものだけでなく，
アニメーションのキャラクターなど空想上のものにもおよぶ。
アニメ愛好家の一部が，NHK のアニメーション「恐竜惑星」のヒロイン「鷺沢萌」に対して抱く，
ロリータ-コンプレックスの感情に始まるといわれるが，その語源にも諸説ある

English translation:

Moe [moe]

To incite strong emotional feelings toward a certain character or thing. Not limited to actual physical things, but evolves more into animated characters and other like-wise imaginary personas. If one asks an extreme anime lover, they would say the origins of "moe" stems from the lolita complex incited from the the heroine from the 1993 NHK series anime, "Kyouryuu Wakusei" (Planet of Dinosaurs), Sagisawa Moe. However, the origins are disputed by many [likewise, some say it stems from Tomoe Hotaru (Sailor Saturn) from the Sailor Moon series]


Well, that's not the definition... uh, you're right in that it's hard to define. On 4chan, an American haven of Japanese culture, it is described as "lolicon".

Though the origins of "moe" can be related to lolicon, "moe" does not necessarily mean lolicon. For example, Kazami Mizuho-sensei from Onegai Teacher (far from being a loli-type character) can also be considered a "moe~ character." So are Suzumiya Haruka from "Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien" and Tessa Testarossa from "Full Metal Panic."

[Shii]

Oh, I thought "moe", especially in the stretched-out form "moe~", came from Kinomoto Sakura's cry in CCS. Although if the term originated before CCS, I suppose that would be a little hard to believe :p

[stormy001_M1A2]

in other words , it is an association of emotional perogative of the character gives to the viewer, a mix of cuteness yet untouchableness and innocence?

[kj1980]

in other words , it is an association of emotional perogative of the character gives to the viewer, a mix of cuteness yet untouchableness and innocence?

There we go. I guess the closest thing to "moe~" in Western standards are people who love Audrey Hepburn. (wow that was a bad example!)

[stormy001_M1A2]

Ep 9 talks about another previously unshown frattelo which is dead in manga vol 1, Elsa and Paulo/Raulo(?). She is apparently cold and no-nonsense but actually very envious of Henrietta's warm relationship with Jose with tragic consequences in the end of the episode when she fail to follow her instructor's command, increasing the feel of rejection on her part.

Her action scenes is pretty good, she likes to use assault rifle up close and personal.

Her primary is SiG SG552 Commando SWAT and SiG P226.

The story from here is getting down to the crux, in retrospect. Henrietta deep attachment is shown, in firing range training scene when she is displeased when Jose is talking to Angelica first. I do however do suspect Elsa is much intense that she seems, she did fit the profile of a person who is either to have it all or nothing, willing to go to great lengths for what she wants. A very dangerous combination, considering her situation.

[Casshern]

About the "moe~" mentality...

you're saying that a "moe" is a character which is made specificaly to provoke sympathy from the viewer?

i.e Henrieta is an innocent girl who is conditioned to kill without remorce. The remorcelesnes from the brainwashing contradicted to the pure-heartedness which stems from withing her is a kind of tragic irony. The viewer therefore feels sympathy for this character, who is not even real.

So the name "Moe" given to the windup-doll in Love Hina is actually a pun?

[Kensuke]

Quite suprising that they introduced a new girl (I haven't read manga, I have ordered first volume thought, but it hasn't arrived yet :D)
Else is coldest of the girls, devoting her life completely to her instrutor and not caring anybody else.
Raulo on the other hand doesn't want to interact his partner and basically treats Elsa like tool, he even compares that Elsa is like a weapon, making him number two bastard of the organization.

I wonder that is this going to be bi-weekly series since ep. 10 airs january 28th...

[wao]

Heh, this episode had great animation and art. My favourite ep along with Episode 4... I personally think they handled the tension and drama pretty well in this ep. Also I've been waiting and waiting for a girl like Elsa to come up - not blind like Rico, but still as "professional"... And IMO she's the cutest of them all - Triela comes close though. ^_~

Actually, I can understand the moe~ mentality... I'm just not good enough with words to explain it. Gawd I sound like a wannabe, but I really do understand that mentality... Don't they have an anime to explain this?! o_o;

[Weissent]

Hmmmm,
I have to say I really enjoy the soundtrack of GG (ending excluded). The Delgados opener is simply great, but the piece with classical orchestration during the weapon cleaning / confrontation in the dark room in ep 09 was, simply put, earcandy. Extraordinary.

[Ayu-ayu]

There we go. I guess the closest thing to "moe~" in Western standards are people who love Audrey Hepburn. (wow that was a bad example!)

Yes, the concept of "moe" is pretty non-existant in Western culture, at least here in the States. Especially as most Western males think themselves "above" extreme emotional attachment to anything (except perhaps sports). It's that kind of passion and aesthetic that continues to elude non-Japanese animation and comics at large. And it's a damn shame. Of course we have little here to inspire and drive that particular passion in the first place.

Given the amount I saw it shouted on Japanese BBSes, I'da thought that Ayu was more "moe" with fans than Haruka in KGNE... ^_^;

I think Comic Party TV did a reasonable explanation of what "moe" is, but it still was probably hard to grasp for anyone who's not a serious otaku.

On a total tangent it reminds me of the producer of the LOTR games for Electronic Arts saying recently that "games have yet to make one cry--but maybe five years from now". Obviously this guy never played a well-written Japanese game such as Kanon, Final Fantasy VII, etc... why is it so many Westerners are so dense on this sort of thing?

[CompShrink]

I understand moe... just slightly...

I disagree, guys int he US (stereotypically) get emotionally attached to cars/boats/planes as well as sports. But yeah, nothing really like moe...

Moe is very difficult to explain, it's part of the culture! You need to have a certain level of understanding of Japanese culture to get it, so words themselves cannot explain it without living in Japan, studying it for a long time, or watching enough anime/j-drama.

[Shii]

studying it for a long timeLike this?

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-1/609366/study.jpg

[stormy001_M1A2]

This is in general terms.

Westerners is more expressive and open with their emotions, Asians don't in general. Therefore Asians need a trigger to release and also safe from public viewing for their emotional release and attachment. It also explained why Westerner need more exotic emotional perogative to be emotional with, things like pathos or massive tragedy or maybe paean needed. Stuffs like King Henry V exhortation to his English troops in Shakespeare or reading the accounts of Leonidas and 300 Spartans Last Stand in Thermopylae or The Charge of Light Brigade in Balaclava. It is well noted that Western culture have higher regard for this tales, Asians did not really have as much such emotional attachment to the examples above.

Moe is a sophisticated reaction formation to the social condition, since it is animated, it is designed to exploit on the factor more. Japanese game designers is not stupid, they design games with good eye on using moe to pull in people to buy their games.

How is moe look like or more importantly, what feeling does it stroke when someone look at it? Usually the target has to very appealing hairdo and hair colour, bright multitwinkling eyes, confident expression or cutesy one plus an aura that she/he is approachable yet incorruptible. This is what I understand so far, after some thinking here and there.

Just some musings so far. By the way, I agree the music score for the room scene of Elsa and the subsequent confrontation with Henrietta is excellent, also not forgetting the sniper scene music score too.

[Wandering_Youth]

Did Else get left behind in the end or what in episode 9?

[wao]

Did Else get left behind in the end or what in episode 9?

I have a sad feeling she did... the poor girl, she tried to be so professional... and she never knew she was being mean....

[tcrystalis]

I loved that episode too. All Else cared about and desperately needed was some Possible spoiler

sort of compliment or recognition from her supervisor and then she saw Henrietta getting freely what she needed so badly and it hurt. Then the time came when she was supposed to do her job and she felt like this was her one and only chance to prove herself to her supervisor to make him proud. Because she was so nervous she began to make mistakes and her supervisor became disgusted wih her. Because she had invested all of herself into him her failure was totally devastating to her.

This is definitely one of my favorite episodes.

My first post. I hope I am doing the spoiler thing correctly. Well i am off to try and read the Gunslinger Girl so that I don't have to watch what I read so carefully :) I hope that it is as good or close as Battle Angel Alita.

I love your Triela pic Wao. How do you get your own pic like that? I had to choose from a long list and I could not find any for Gunslinger Girl. Not sure as I would pic one though being a guy, but I like the one I picked. :)

[wao]

I loved that episode too. All Else cared about and desperately needed was some Possible spoiler

sort of compliment or recognition from her supervisor and then she saw Henrietta getting freely what she needed so badly and it hurt. Then the time came when she was supposed to do her job and she felt like this was her one and only chance to prove herself to her supervisor to make him proud. Because she was so nervous she began to make mistakes and her supervisor became disgusted wih her. Because she had invested all of herself into him her failure was totally devastating to her.

This is definitely one of my favorite episodes.

My first post. I hope I am doing the spoiler thing correctly. Well i am off to try and read the Gunslinger Girl so that I don't have to watch what I read so carefully :) I hope that it is as good or close as Battle Angel Alita.

I love your Triela pic Wao. How do you get your own pic like that? I had to choose from a long list and I could not find any for Gunslinger Girl. Not sure as I would pic one though being a guy, but I like the one I picked. :)


You do?! :O Thanks! Well I cut out the image from the OP and then gave it a borderish thingy in Photoshop and sharpened the image, etc... yeah, I made it myself, you can make custom avatars!

Triela's my favourite, actually Else is cuter but she's so evil.

[tcrystalis]

Henrietta is my favorite ;) Still, I like them all in different ways. I was looking at episode 9 again and at the end I can't help but feel so very sorry for her. More so than any of the other girls. All of the girls are devoted to their supervisors (mentors? brothers?) but for Else it seems to go beyond that. She has invested all of her being into her mentor and I can almost see the wheels turning in her mind at the end. Not sure if this is a spoiler or not so I will play it safe

She was utterly and completely devastated at letting Raulo down, because for her to have the least amount of adoration or acceptance from Raulo would mean everything to her and that is more than I can comprehend. I don't know why, but I feel that when she saw henrietta with Jose Elsa realized that what she needed so much she just couldn't have. As we see Elsa at the very tail end of the movie I have to wonder if she was pushed over the edge emotionally.

Oh, how beautiful the music is. Anime music is so wonderful at times and in this series it just is a work of art. The whole show is actually a work of art for me. I wish that there were more people around here who would give anime a try, but even when they do it is hard to spark their interest.

One thing I find interesting is that the girls loyalty to their supervisor does not always take on the same form as Henrietta's. Triela's loyalty made her almost aloof and irritated towards her mentor. Actually they all take to the loyalty progamming differently.

I just read the manga and I have to say that the anime is better. The last two chapters were very interesting though. If this anime continues to follow the manga things should start getting very interesting soon. If this manga is only volume one I hope they make another anime series out of vol. 2.

[Weissent]

Just a short excursion regarding names in GSG:

I'm still a little uncertain about the romanization of some names, especially the one of Triela's 'big brother'. I've seen many different versions. Triad name him "Hirsyer", in the translated manga (ADV) he's called "Hillshire".

IMHO, since we learn in GSG#4 that he's German, in all probability the most plausible romanization would be "Hirscher", which is quite a common German name:

http://www.gunslingergirl.com/com/img/chr/maestro_hirsyer.gif
<hi-ru-shaa> Since the <u> is silent, the pronunciation of the katakana and the German name Hirscher is as close as two completely different languages could possibly get. (in (high-)German, it is actually pronounced like 'here - share' in British English)

Just a thought. And, yes, I noticed that this pic from the official GSG homepage is actually named "hirsyer", (different interpretation of 'sha'?) so I could be completely off-track. On the other hand, Henrietta's portrait is named 'henrjetta' which is also somewhat off ... Any thoughts / ideas concerning this conundrum? :eyespin: (from ppl who actually *can* speak Japanese?;))

[stormy001_M1A2]

My interpretation of instructor's relation to their girls:

1. Henrietta and Jose = family, brother and sister
2. Jan and Rico = Master and slave
3. Triela and Hirscher = colleagues
4. Claes and Rabarro = father and daughter
5. Angelica and Marco = teacher and student

Elsa is almost bordering on obsessive love.

[LordBrian]

Almost bordering? I'd call it more like religious worship.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Almost bordering? I'd call it more like religious worship.

Elsa fits the Fatal Attraction scenario. I guess I underpresented her intensity, she is definitely in love with her instructor.

[tcrystalis]

I have all of these screen sots of Gunslinger Girl in a folder of mine and one picture I saw just caused me to bust up laughing last night. It is a shot of Elsa polishing her gun while looking at a photograph of Raulo :uhoh: just a little bit creepy there.

By the way, does anyone know what the special meaning is to the ice cream for henrietta? I could not figure it out.

[drvtech]

By the way, does anyone know what the special meaning is to the ice cream for henrietta? I could not figure it out.

If you mean Episode 6 where she asks for ice cream...it's from an only 1956(I think?) movie called Roman Holiday (starring Audrey Hepburn). If you haven't seen it, but you have a girlfriend or wife...should rent it and watch it. Then you'll get the gist of the ice cream. If not, then try a few websites out there that'll explain the significance of the ice cream. Don't want to spoil too much.

[Dark_Sun]

wow..that scared me...i thought gsg fanservice was gone O.o.......that one girl in the newest episode is a brat. :frustrated:

[Mistwrath]

I feel really sorry for Elsa, despite her efforts and devotion to her instructor, she was just thrown aside.

But as u look from the way of the instructor, emotions tends to hinder in the way of the mission, causing fatal mistakes and the list goes on blah blah.

But still, Raulo didn't have to treat her so coldly. Sorry, I have a soft spot for kawaii little girls in most anime series :D

[stormy001_M1A2]

To mix emotions with functional basis of a weapon in one package is fatal combination.

Seldom people come out from it alive and trauma free.

[u&t]

What I don't get is why they used the girls for that mission in the first place.

They are not very good shots (with the exception of Rico) so the whole misson was a bit stupid to me. Also this is another indication of that the girls are not very mentally stable but none of the handlers seems to really care that much about that. They should totally recondition Elsa now...

[Mistwrath]

Well the girls are conditioned to adapt to situations fast with enhanced body parts. But well shooting is not something u learn in a day or 2. I guess the people at the organisation didn't do too heavy a conditioning on the girls for fear for damaging their body and thus resulting in an earlier death for the girls, not that the organisation cares, in their eyes they are expendable

[u&t]

Yeah but why use them for something they suck at?

Well brainwashed killer-robot-girls is not very plausible in the first place so I''ll just have to accept the stupidity...

[Kensuke]

I remember that they explained in the first episode that they have to use childrens since conditioning is easier for them (or something like that), and we have seen multiple times that you can use them as scouts since nobode suspects them to work as a assassins.
Of course mental instability is weakness, but yes, they are expendable althought not easily and it takes time, so its not very big deal.

Four episode left, and ep. 10 airs soon so I'm wondering where the story is going in those last episodes and how they are going to finish this series, maybe ep. 10 will show some clues.

[The Faction's Lord]

What I don't get is why they used the girls for that mission in the first place.

They are not very good shots (with the exception of Rico) so the whole misson was a bit stupid to me.

Well, they aren't all bad at sniping, it's merely that Rico normally performs the sniping work, as she's best at it. Admitedly, I wish Rico was in it because she's my favourite character, but that aside...
Also, it was for the two contrasting personalities of Raulo and Jose, and the envy between the affection Henrietta gets compared to what Elsa gets. This was purely done to make the show more interesting, while if it was Rico, it wouldn't be the same as both handlers treat their girls badly.
Still, it was a great episode.

[stormy001_M1A2]

I personally felt that GSG will end with kinda ending that many Westerner anime fans hate most, ie: no real resolution and things goes on with absence of dramatic ending. The 2nd Section of Public Welfare Corporation will still functioning and Henrietta with her assassin friends will be still kill people on behalf of Italian government but Elsa's story will be told as one off tale of this tragedy.

It is very Japanese ending in retrospect and it is just a speculation from me, not spoilers.

[a_nevels666]

I personally felt that GSG will end with kinda ending that many Westerner anime fans hate most, ie: no real resolution and things goes on with absence of dramatic ending. The 2nd Section of Public Welfare Corporation will still functioning and Henrietta with her assassin friends will be still kill people on behalf of Italian government but Elsa's story will be told as one off tale of this tragedy.

It is very Japanese ending in retrospect and it is just a speculation from me, not spoilers.

Actually I think Japanese endings usually have resolution, it's just that the anime very often doesn't cover all of the manga.

I really hope GSG will have some sort of dramatic-shoot-out type ending.

[wao]

I feel really sorry for Elsa, despite her efforts and devotion to her instructor, she was just thrown aside.


Don't get too attached to Elsa because it appears that what happened in (I think) the first ep of the manga will finally happen...

...Elsa and Raulo's death. Who are these two new people Fermi and Elanora or whatever?